HealthyGamerGG - Can Money Really Buy Happiness?

Episode Date: February 12, 2023

💰 Can money really buy happiness? 🤔 Dr. K explores the connection between wealth & wellbeing. 💭 Uncover the truth behind this age-old debate. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So people would give someone like a nice expensive chocolate, and they'd ask them to eat the chocolate. And what we sort of found is that if you eat the chocolate just by itself and you really sit down and you enjoy it, it actually like brings you a lot of happiness. If you tell people how much the chocolate costs, or especially if they have to pay for it, it reduces the happiness. So a lot of people wonder whether money buys happiness or not, right? There's kind of this age-old debate of does money buy happiness? And there's even been some research on this stuff, right? people are kind of like, I think there was a very famous, there's a very famous, like,

happiness course at Yale that cites some of these studies that essentially what psychologists who look at happiness have discovered is that if you make like between 100 and 150k a year, I think the number was 100K, but I think there's been inflation, that money does buy happiness, but up to a certain point. And that beyond a certain point of money, it actually doesn't correlate with increased happiness at all. And so we sort of know, right, now based on this like new scientific research that, duh, to a certain degree, money buys happiness. But on the flip side, we also know that there are these like spiritual traditions with people like monks, right, and yogis. And these are people that will sort of say like, yeah, you know, these are like,

these are the people that their job is to try to become happy. Like, that's what enlightenment is, right? It's this like mythical state of like permanent happiness, nirvana, an unb, bliss. And they cultivate that state. And apparently the way that you do that is not by acquiring money, but actually by disacquiring money. by actively getting rid of all of your stuff. So we have these monks who are sitting there, meditating all the time. And they're apparently the ones that are like the closest to becoming perfectly happy. And so then we're kind of stuck, right?

Because it's like, okay, so wait, hold on a second. But which one should I do? Like, I want to be happy in life. So what do I do? Do I grind for money? Do I try to make $100,000 a year? Do I make $150,000 a year? Or do I become like a monk?

Like, should I learn how to settle? Right? So should I learn to like be happy with what I have or should I try to get more? And if you say I should be like a monk, but hold on a second because there's all these researchers that say, I need to make 100 to 150K a year, they say that that's what's going to make me happy. So we don't know, right? We don't know. Like, should I chase money or should I not chase money? I want to be happy, but which one is it?

And then we run into this other problem, which is that, okay, if we decide that, all right, so let's say, we're going to listen to the Yale researchers, right? Because it's Yale, and they're brilliant. And they say 100K a year. Okay, cool. So then the question is, all right, so if I need to make 100K a year to be happy, should I major in something that makes me miserable so that I can get make money because that's what everyone tells me to do. And then we enter into this other debate, which is like passion, or do I major in STEM? Do you, like, become an artist? And do I make, like, video games or board games? Or do I, like,

get a job that provides, like, security and money? Like, do I major in computer science or electrical engineering or chemical engineering? So which is it, right? So, okay, hold on a second. So if you're saying that I need 100K to be happy, let me live, let me major in something that's going to get me a good job. And once I have lots of money, I'll be happy, right? So then that's you sort of go down that path, but people don't seem happy doing that. And now you're kind of confused because then you like kind of go back to the monk thing and it's like, okay, if I'm studying in engineering, should I change majors or should I push through it? Right? And eventually happiness will come. So we all get tangled up around this business of,

okay, should I try to be a monk? Or should I grind to become happy? Should I make lots of money? And then like, that'll kind of buy me happiness. Like which one, which one should I do? And the interesting thing is that I don't think that these two paths are actually different at all. In fact, I think what I'd love to share with you all today is as we understand the nature of happiness, stress, we understand what money does for us and what it doesn't do for us. And furthermore, once we understand what monks actually do when they meditate, what will actually discover is that this problem of, okay, should I major in something that I dislike? Should I pick a career because it makes me money?

Or should I do what I love? Should I go the monk route and move away from material possessions? Or should I try to make a bunch of money because that'll make you happy? what we'll actually discover is that it's neither, they're both, they're all the same. There's actually one path. There's actually no discrepancy or disagreement between the monk and the happiness researchers. So let's start by understanding a little bit about stress. So the first thing that we've got to understand is that when we're stressed out, it has all kinds of different effects on our body and our mind. So we know that when we're stressed out, our body will secrete different kinds of hormones or chemicals. Right. So we'll release things like adrenaline. We'll release things like cortisol. And what cortisol does to our body and our brain is quite diverse. So it'll do things like make us more sensitive to stimuli. So this is a huge thing that cortisol does. So for example, cortisol travels to this part of our brain called the reticular activating formation, which governs how we sleep and how deeply we sleep. And it basically activates some so that smaller noises will wake us up. Okay? So like when we have cortisol

in our system, our sleep is light. We don't get deep restful sleep. But it's not just that kind of stimulus that it makes us sensitive to. Cortisol also increases the sensitivity of our pain receptors. So things will hurt more when we're in a high stressful state. Emotions will hurt more, physical injuries will hurt more. We also know that, for example, autoimmune conditions like eczema, asthma, psoriasis, arthritis, all of these things will flare up and will become more active when we are stressed out. We also know that cortisol, for example, makes a lot of our input, so our eyes, our ears, things like that, a lot of our sensory organs will become hypersensitive as well. Because the goal of cortisol is not to keep us alive for the moment,

it's to help us stay alive over a 24 or 48 hour period. So the classic example of when cortisol is released is if I run into, let's say, a tiger in the woods. And then I run away from the tiger. That's usually governed by adrenaline. But once I get away from the tiger, for a long period of time, I need to stay alert. And that's essentially what cortisol does. And what cortisol does is sacrifices long-term health for short-term survival. So now we live in a society where cortisol can almost be like constantly flowing through our system. Because in the past, when we were hunter-gatherers, it wasn't that big of a deal because, you know, we'd run into a tiger every now and then. But now what's happening is like when when the first of the month rolls around and I pay my rent,

I'm already worrying about how to pay my rent at the end of the month. So I'm in this constant stress state. As I increase this amount of stress, I start to worry more. I'd be. become sensitive to negative stimuli. I have difficulty sleeping. I kind of feel bad. So this is what stress does to us. It makes it very hard to be happy when we're in a stressful state because I'm not sleeping. I'm sensitive to pain stimuli. I'm worrying all the time. The mind of someone who has a bunch of cortisol in their system is also looking into the future. So I can't enjoy the present. Right. I just paid my rent on the first of the month and I'm already worrying about the 30th of the month. How am I going to make my rent next month? So I can't even enjoy the 29 days that I have to pay rent.

we start to see that from a physiologic and psychological standpoint, stress and a lack of happiness are correlated. So what does that have to do with our discussion? Aren't we talking about money and happiness? Well, let's try to understand what 100K buys us or what 150K buys us. Because we know that this seems to be the magic number. And if you think about what 100 to 150K buys you, that 200K, 300K or 400K don't, or that 50K, 60K or 70K don't, right? Why is this number magical? The number is magical because that amount of money buys us security. So I don't have to worry about paying my rent, usually. If I get sick, I can afford to pay my bills.

I can afford food. If my car breaks down, I can probably get it fixed. I may be able to travel some. I may be able to do some amount of enjoyment. I may be able to do some kind of recreation. I'm allowed to have sort of recreational experiences at 100 to 150K. So if we really look at what's magical about that number, what it really provides for us is security.

What it really does is that's the amount of money that we need. need to lower our cortisol levels, right? Because now I'm not stressed about making, unless I'm overextended and stuff like that. And you all may know people who make 150K who are stressed out of their minds because they're, they're the, you know, they live like multi-millionaires when they only make 100K. So you can absolutely get into that situation. But it turns out that what the happiness researchers discovered essentially was that this amount of money provides security. And so now let's think about the monks for a second, right? Because, I mean, they're not like, you know, what's their deal? Like, they're, they don't have any money. They certainly don't have 100K. They don't have 150K.

But they seem to be pretty happy and pretty chill. So now I'm going to ask you all the question, do monks have security? Does a monk need to worry about where they're sleeping at night? Does a monk need to worry about where their next meal is coming from? Does their monk need to worry about getting promoted? Does a monk need to worry about politics with their boss? Maybe, right, depending on where you're a monk. But so this is what's really interesting is we sort of say that monks are not materialistic.

But what we also actually see is that monks are actually very secure in their day-to-day life. for the most part. Like, people pay for their food through donations. They're like housing is generally like accommodated. Most monks don't have to worry about paying rent at the end of the month. There's usually some kind of charitable organization or something like that where like monks will have, you know, they'll get medical care and things like that. Like I haven't seen, you know, I've never seen a go fund me from a monk trying to pay medical bills. You'll see go fund me for from people all the time, especially in the United States. But it's not like monks are out there, you know, struggling to make ends meet. Now, some of them will choose to be, you know, like poor and essentially we'll take vows of poverty and then we'll also rely on the charity of others.

But if you kind of think about how can that develop as a tradition, how can I choose being broke as a way of life? Because that's what the monks do. They're like, my way of life is, I ain't going to do shit. And they're still alive after 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. How is that? It's because they actually have their security provided for them. So the first thing to understand is that the happiness research and the monks actually agree that the purpose. that the purpose of money is security when it comes to happiness.

The second thing to understand is that if we look at happiness, there's a difference between gaining happiness and losing happiness. And especially what insecurity does is it takes happiness away. It doesn't give you happiness, but it makes it so that if you have some amount of happiness, let's say I have 50 units of happiness, but then I can't pay my rent at the month, at the end of the month, I lose 30 units of happiness.

That's what stress does to us. It takes our happiness away. It doesn't directly give it to us. So this is the first thing, right? Is now that we kind of look at this once we understand how stress works, once we understand what money actually does for happiness, and even when we look at monks, we start to discover that actually all of these things are aligned.

The purpose of money in terms of how much it deals with happiness is essentially security. Now, even if we know that, it still doesn't really answer our original question, right? Because our original question is like, should I major in a stem person, should I become a STEM person, like electrical engineering or like lawyer or whatever? Or should I do what I love? It doesn't help us, even this amount of information, doesn't help us make the choice. Which one should I do? Because if you're saying they're actually consistent, I still don't know how to pick.

And that's why, thankfully, there's like way more research on happiness. And I'm going to share with you all a little bit more. So the first thing, it appears that a lot of happiness correlates with something called savering. So savering is the ability to enhance or extend a positive emotional experience. I take some issue with the word emotional there, but a positive experience. We know what it means to savor something, right? But essentially what happens is the more that you're able to savor things, the more happy you are. And we also know that, for example, money can negatively impact savering.

So if I buy, there's literally people that studies on this, right? So there's a causative, this is a causative study, by the way, not correlation. There's a huge difference. So people would give someone like a nice, expensive chocolate. And they'd ask them to eat the chocolate. And what we sort of found is that if you eat the chocolate, just by itself and you really sit down and you enjoy it, it actually, like, brings you a lot of happiness. if you tell people how much the chocolate costs,

or especially if they have to pay for it, it reduces the happiness. Now, this is a really important finding, okay? Because what this means is that if I'm rich and I buy something nice and I think about how much I paid for it, it will actually reduce the quality of savoring. This is what in scientific research is called kind of the dual nature of money and happiness, which is that money will allow you for certain possessions and things like that, and we'll get to that in a second.

but the more that you think about money, the less you're actually able to savor things. And so this is a really important thing to understand is when we're really talking about what is happiness, we're sort of really zeroing on this quality of savoring. There are a couple of other really interesting things that we discovered from happiness research. The first is that spending money on experiences

is worth more than spending money on possessions. Okay? So like if you have some amount of happiness, doing stuff with it, as opposed to getting stuff with it will actually make you more happy. So let's say taking trips or like going whitewater rafting or going to a museum, like paying tickets for a museum is worth more happiness than let's say a micro-transaction in a video game.

So getting more stuff and being able to do things, doing stuff is actually worth more happiness than getting stuff. Second really interesting thing is that savoring experiences that are ordinary or extraordinary leads to about the same amount of happiness. So what that sort of means is that it's not like a $15 cup of coffee is more enjoyable than a $5 cup of coffee or a $3 cup of coffee or a $10 cup of coffee.

The experiences that we go through, you don't have to visit the best museum in the world. You can just visit a decent museum. That sort of prioritizing experience is important, but it's not like extraordinary experiences are worth more than ordinary experiences. So I can go climb to the top of Mount Everest, which maybe that's an experience,

but, or I can hike for an hour and that's to a certain degree that there's a lot of happiness in both of those. So it's not like the fancier stuff that gets posted on social media with the really epic vistas

and the tallest mountain in the world is better than the second tallest mountain in the world. Like, if you climb at the top of any mountain and you look out, it's going to be really enjoyable. So it's not like the extraordinary is actually greater than the ordinary. Second, really interesting thing.

Third thing, that's also kind of novel from happiness research, is that generally speaking, spending money on other people brings more happiness than spending money on yourself. So this is kind of interesting as well. So we see a lot of the value of altruism, whereas like if I work hard and I give something to another human being, that actually makes me happier than having stuff myself. And so if we look at some of these novel discoveries about the nature of money and happiness, we discover a lot of things that are also actually very consistent with monks. So the first is that a monk can savor a simple cup of tea, right? Like

especially if you go to like Buddhist monasteries and stuff, they'll have like, you know, barley tea or green tea or something like that. And they'll sit there and they'll like enjoy like a simple cup of tea. And it's in the enjoyment of the simple thing, the act, that's really where the happiness comes from. And that's really what monks trained to do, right? Because if you think about, okay, what is meditation? If you look at like these Zen masters,

being a monk is a formal training in savoring. Being a monk is a formal training in extracting as much happiness as we can out of any experience. And so the cool thing about being a monk is that the more you level up your savering skill, the more that you are able to actually extract positive enjoyment out of even seemingly neutral or negative experiences. And that's really where the monk training is really valuable. But as we end up discovering, you know, now we get a little bit closer to the answer to our question, which is a lot of people will say like, okay, so should I go down this career path even if it doesn't make me happy? Because I'll get money, because money buys happiness, right? Up to a

certain point. Well, no, that's not really how it works. Money provides security. Money also gives us the opportunity to create experiences. Money gives us to a certain degree the ability to help others, which will make us happy. So that's what money does. But the basic problem is that we think that the choice is what's going to make us happy, right? Because that's what really screws us. It was like, should I pick A or should I pick B? And the real lesson to take away from all this stuff is that the choice is not what brings the happiness. It's the way that we experience the choice that brings happiness. So it's not about picking the right major. It's how do you live your life with a particular major? Right. So even if I pick a major that I don't like and I work in a way that,

you know, I don't find, it doesn't really attract me. But I can still enjoy lots of things about it. Right. So I've had this experience myself where like, you know, you can still really enjoy a cup of coffee in the morning even if you hate your job. And you can really enjoy the feeling of relief when you're done with your job that you hate. And then the other really wild thing is that even parts of your job, once you learn how to savor, there are parts of your job that you used to dislike, which you can start to like. So what we actually discover is that like the monks and all the happiness research are actually perfectly lined. And I think the best example of this that I'll leave y'all with actually comes from the world of dating. So right now, everyone is out there looking for

the perfect partner. And that was the promise of the dating apps, right? Is that you tell us exactly what you want, and we will find it for you. We will look amongst all these billions of people on the planet, you give us a checklist of everything that you're looking for and we'll match you with the perfect person. Because that's what's going to lead to happiness, right? It's getting everything that you want. Whereas I come from a culture that it traditionally has arranged marriages. And if you kind of think about it, having an arranged marriage, you don't get to pick shit. You don't get to pick any of it. Someone else picked it for you. And so if picking what we want is the way that we get happiness, then it should follow that everyone who does online dating should be perfectly happy and that

no one who has an arranged marriage will ever be happy, right? Because they have no choice. Because the choice is what determines the happiness. But what we actually discover is that if you look at arranged marriages, it's people who change their experience within the marriage. It's not the choice itself. It's how they live in the marriage. It's how they learn to love someone. It's how they learn to accept someone. It's how the other person learns to love and accept them, that you can have incredibly happy marriages. So the problem that we face when we're trying to think, okay, should I do A or should I do B, which one will make me happy? First of all, there's no dispute between the happiness researchers and the monks,

we all actually agree that you need some amount of security, and then the rest of it is determined by how you live your life, that you prioritize experiences over possessions, that you try to use your money to help other people as opposed to yourself. But you need to be able to have the money to help other people and still pay your rent. And the more that you begin to realize that, then you'll start to realize that it's not the choice that brings happiness. It's what you do with it.

It's how you live after. It's how you learn how to savor whatever comes after the choice that will ultimately bring you the happiness. Oh, yes, people are asking, love can be learned? 100%. So if you want to understand why there's so little love in the world,

it's because we forgot that love is a skill that you can learn. And we assumed that it was something that was pre-packaged, perfectly formed, and then you go find it. So this is like, we're like a society who thinks that chairs can be found on the street instead of being built.

And now we're wandering around. The whole society is wandering around looking for chairs. Because in your household, there were chairs. So we've stopped learning how to love. And instead, we've started looking for it. So Dr. Kay confused about picking between pro-gaming and CS major, what should I do? So I can't tell if you're trolling or not.

But let's assume that's a serious question because that's a common concern for a lot of people, trying to think about since you're interested in programming. So I'm going to share something, okay? Don't read too much into it. I've worked with about seven or eight e-sports teams, let's say. And sometimes what happens after a team has trouble is they think about, should I switch this player out or not? Should we find a new player?

They think which is the right choice. Should we stick with what we have or should we find a new player? And that's where like my answer to them is there isn't a right choice or a wrong choice. It's that whatever you pick is going to require work. All that's different is the kind of work

that it's going to take after your choice. See, we think that making the right choice creates the right result. But it's not the choice that creates the result. It's what you do after the choice. So I'll see this a lot. Also like in medical, school where people are like, okay, well, I love surgery and I love psychiatry. Which one should I

pick? Which one will make me happier? And that's where I think people are losing the point. They're like thinking, like, if I pick something, it'll make me happy. And that's why those people wind up unhappy because they think that the happiness comes from the choice. It's created afterward. And as long as you think that a particular thing is going to make me you happy and you strive for that thing and then you get it and then what happens, those people aren't happy. You'll get that? This is why people who look for happiness outside of them, never find it. And I don't mean that in like a here's my spiritual tweet for the day. I mean like literally think about it. Right. If I think that because they think that happiness is just like

something that you acquire. Right. It's like you open a treasure chest and boop. Here's the happiness. I found it. Now I'm good. It doesn't work like that. It's created. This is why the research on savoring is so important. What we discover is that prioritizing experiences and learning how to savor is actually what leads to happiness. And so you can go and this is what we end up with, right? Like I want this thing. This thing will make me happy. And you get that thing. It makes you happy for like a day. Then you want something else. You're so excited to play this video game. This video game is so great, so great. Oh my God. It's so much fun. And then you finish. And then what? How long does the happiness from the video game last? If video games actually made people happy, the industry would be dead.

We wouldn't need anymore because we'd be done. So this is what it means. It's not like some profound like, oh, like happiness comes from within. Like literally, it's not like some weird spiritual metaphor. It's like you can eat as many fucking cookies as you want to in life. You can eat a today, you're going to want one tomorrow. You can eat one tomorrow, you're going to want one the next day. You can get tired for them for a little while, and then you'll want something else, and then you're going to eat that, and you'll be happy for a little while, and then a month later, you're going to want a cookie again. This is not some profound spiritual realization. This is just like, just pay attention to yourself for like all of five minutes, and you will discover this. That the happiness

doesn't come from the object itself. It comes from your experience of the object. So should you major in CS or should you become a progamer? That depends on how you live your life after making the decision. There isn't a right decision or a wrong decision. Should I take job? job A or should I take job B? Well, job A has these benefits and these weaknesses. Job B has these benefits and these weaknesses. So whether you're happy or not, it's not which job you choose. It's which way are you going to play the game after you pick a job. Am I going to take advantage of A, B, and C? And am I going to supplement and deal with D, E, and F, that are the weaknesses? If the answer is yes, you will be happy in your job. So what we've done

is a society of we've ceded control of our happiness to the outside world. We've given up. We've given up on our relationships. Because finding the right person, I met the one. It's the search for the one. Which implies that the happiness from the relationship comes from the other person. And boy, when we surrendered our happiness in a relationship to the other person, that's when we get fucked. Because they're responsible for it now. And whether we become happy or not depends on their behavior.

We lose control of our lives. Same thing is happening in work. This job will make me happy. As soon as I get to the end of the rainbow, I will be happy. And then you're not happy. So what do you do? You go find another rainbow. And then you grind towards the end of it.

And then you're not happy for long enough, so you look for another rainbow. This promotion, next promotion, next promotion. 50 grand more, 100 grand more, 200 grand more. That'll be happy. Right? And all you all are like, if you don't make 200 grand a year, 300 grand a year, like, of course that'll make me happy. Think about all the crap, I'll be able to do it.

There's research that says that after 100 or 150K doesn't do anything. We've ceded control of our happiness to the outside world. And boy, has the outside world loved. taking it from us, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to make you happy. Yeah, you want happiness? I can give you happiness. 599. This DLC. 299. This micro-transaction. You need more lives on this level of jelly, whatever, crunch. 99 cents. I'll give you, make you happy. Just give me a dollar. Give me two. Give me five. Give me 10. Give me 100. Give me a thousand. I want to be happy. I need a diamond. In order to be happy in this relationship, I need a diamond that's worth $50,000. Without the diamond,

going to be happy. This is what I need to be happy. I deserve it. I deserve the best because I have self-esteem. And in that moment, what you're doing is surrendering your happiness to literally a chunk of carbon. And we wonder why no one is happy today. Because we gave it up. And there are people who are happy to profit off of it. They're like, great. You go, girl. You want a 50k? Let me show you ads for 60K diamonds. And we wonder. It's not a knock against women, by the way. Men are the same. For men, it can be, I need my significant other. We're assuming a heterosexual relationship to have tits that are this big. Same thing.

Sports cars, whatever. So if you're wondering, what should I do? So here's what I'd say. Start by prioritizing your security. Learn how to savor and prioritize experiences over possessions. And spend your money on other people, at least some. These are the four things that'll make you happy in life. Easy.

Ah, this is great. So this is a wonderful. question. How does the experience of going to a museum differ from the experience of gaming? Beautiful. So the main difference is one is easier to savor and one is harder to savor. So remember, the ability to savor is the ability to enhance and extend a positive emotional experience. So gaming is only fun while you're gaming. And then the second you're done with a match, what do you have to do to continue having fun? You don't savor at all. You just jump right in. So the difference between a museum is a museum is more conducive to savering. And then,

people may say, but hold on a second, Dr. Kay, I've savored some of my video game experiences, as have I. And those are the video game experiences that I love and don't regret for a moment. That's what being a healthy gamer is about, savoring your gaming. I still remember ladder matches from StarCraft One on island maps when I was playing Protos. Like, I still remember Dungeons and Dragons sessions. I still remember a couple of epic comebacks in Dota. I still remember playing Unreal tournament. Those are the experiences that are worth savering. But what I think is actually like worse about gaming is that gaming

itself is not monolithic. There are some games that could be savored. Like I think Eldon Ring is moving in that direction, right? You can savor Elden Ring. You don't have to microtransact your way to anything. It's not about winning or losing. It's like there isn't a best weapon and a worst weapon. The best weapon is what

people are like, what kind of armor do you want to wear? It's like fashion souls. Like forget about best. I'm going to create an experience. And even if you're a video game designer and this is where like we've done consulting for video game companies. What we advocate is this, is that we think about video games as evil. They're not evil. Parents think about them as evil. Whether they're evil or not, it depends on how we make them. So like, even if you're playing a video game, savor it. I know it's kind of bizarre. After you play for a

little while, go for a walk. Think about how much fun you had today. Because one of two things will happen. Either you'll savor it and it'll be just as fun to walk as it will to play, or if you're like me, at one point you'll make a shocking discovery, which is that actually you didn't enjoy it. And actually, feel like you're waking up from being passed out from drinking too much. And you're hung over from playing way too much. And that's when you know you're an unhealthy gamer. If you can't savor it, don't play it. Savoring is the ability to enhance and prolong or extend a positive experience.