HealthyGamerGG - Dealing with Burnout Ft. Dyrus

Episode Date: May 7, 2020

Stream Schedule: https://www.twitch.tv/healthygamer_gg on Twitch. Youtube: https://youtu.be/s5cjlHMkOUM for VoD Archive. Support us at https://ko-fi.com/healthygamer if you enjoy our content and would continue helping making it accessible to everyone! Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yeah, man, thanks for coming on. So can you tell me a little bit about, you know, is there something in particular you want to talk about today or something that would be, hey, we have the same headset. Oh, really? Oh, the Seineheiser. Yeah. Yeah, it's really comfortable. I like it a lot. Yeah, it's good.

Oh, go ahead. Yeah, I was just going to say, tell me a little bit about, you know, how we can be helpful and what you want to talk about today. So I guess the topic was supposed to be. like gaming burnout. Okay. So I guess a little bit about my background is that I'm from Hawaii. After I graduated high school, I worked for my dad as an intern for a year. And then I got fired because, you know, I didn't want to do it.

I got lucky with the Game League of Legends and I got flown out a free trip to Sweden. And then I started my league pro career by joining, well, going to the TSM house. and then I played pro for like five years. And then I've played league for like 10 years. And I've had like, you know, ups and downs and I get into details as we talk about. Wow. So you're a pro league player? I used to be.

Used to be. Okay. Yeah. So I haven't been pro for like four years now, three years around that time. Yeah. I worked with a fair number of people who are kind of transitioning out of being. pro. Yeah.

In league, Overwatch. Mostly. A little bit of CSGO. A little bit of Rainbow 6. But, yeah, so tell me a little bit about, yeah, so when you said gaming burnout, what do you mean by that?

It's just one of those things where you play the same game for a long time and you don't want to play it as much, but then your fans want you to play it and it also brings you income so instead of doing it for fun it becomes your job because going from casual to pro um yeah i don't i don't see how else to say it i feel like that's common knowledge at this point yeah so you feel like you have to play the game um there was a time

yeah that i felt like i had to play the game and i thought about it for years on end that you know, would I be okay without it? Should I not play it for the good of my mental health? Because playing it was hurting me. Because, so when you play the same game that's controlled by the developers where they control every patch, how the game has changed, like, whatever they want to do. Sometimes they make changes that are bad. and Riot is always a company about changing.

And so whether it's good or worse, some of the changes they've made have made it. They experience much less enjoyable. But at the... So in League of Legends, there's this thing called funneling. And what that is is that instead of having a standard game of, you know, five people versus five people, like there's one person top, middle.

two people bottom and one that goes around the map. Yeah, jungle. And so instead of having that standard thing, there's a role called support, which is they basically, you know, their bottom, they support their other laner. Their job is to help them get as strong as possible. Now, instead of just having one support in the game,

the concept of funneling is there's two supports. and what will happen is there'll be another support in a lane where they're by themselves. And instead of becoming someone strong, their goal is to make someone who is roaming around strong. And so the concept is like, okay, cool, that's their strategy. But it's a very straightforward and hard-to-counter strategy if you make mistakes again. it's really unique and what it does is it enables that one person to hard carry and it's very unfun to play against because they don't even have to play it perfectly but even if you play it perfectly you can still lose the unsan it's a very common cheese elo boosting strategy and

because i've played the game for so long there are some games where i feel like i played it perfectly and I'll still lose, which will happen either way. But it felt even more so against the strategy. And that was just one of the many things that just turned me off from playing the game and just made me, like, you know, lose my mind. Are you kind of saying that it lowered the skill ceiling of the game to sort of have a strategy that just was kind of lopsided? Yes, it lowered the skill ceiling not because of the person only getting all the farm,

but because of the person who's giving them all that. Instead of playing the game normally and, you know, getting stronger, like your skills tested, you don't have to, you can literally put anyone in that position of giving the farm to that person. And all they would have to do is just they wouldn't have to focus on macro at all. They would just have to help that person. And it considerably lowers the skill ceiling because usually you'd have a skilled player in this role because they're considered a carry,

but instead they're given the support role, which is, I'm not trying to say support is easier than carrying, but when you don't have to focus on last hitting, which is what gives you money in the game. Yeah, I'm a boomer, but I'm not that much of a boomer. Okay, I just want to be. So I'm familiar with like ADC and carrying and mid and jungle and sports. Yeah, basically,

They just turned their brain off and just give all the gold to the juggler. Yeah. So just as a reference for how much of a boomer and how little of a boomer I am, I started playing Dota probably like, let me think about this 14 years ago. Oh, okay. Well, then you know more than enough. So back when, when, you know, I was there when mobas were born, boy. Yeah, me too. Okay, so I see.

So it seems like some of the changes that the developers make have really kind of taken some of the joy out of the game for you. Yeah, it's kind of like, it's not completely their fault because it's the player base that also abuses it. So, yeah. Sure. But I mean, isn't the game developer responsible for creating the setting that then players are going to abuse or not abuse? Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah. I mean, players are going to be pieces of shit, right?

Yeah. They're going to cheese whatever they can. Yeah, for sure. I mean. And I think that's why, like, good developers are so important because they're going to create the setting through which, you know, that's going to dictate a certain kind of behavior. Yeah. I want to say it's hard for them to balance it because it's such a, there's so many champions in the game.

but I guess what really irritated me as a pro player is that they would hold these Riot Summit meetings where pro players would come in and pro players would give their advice and a lot of players that play the game a lot have their concerns but there's also like the lower level of play where people have their concerns because what works in lower skill level games doesn't always work and high and vice versa. And so they would hold these, we would have these meetings where like we could give them feedback and there's

some things that were clearly broken. And a lot of the time it wasn't listened to. And that's what frustrated me because it's like, why am I going to this? It's not even like being considered because it just gets written off by certain people in the balance team. And the, okay, go ahead. Yeah, sorry, Dars.

Keep going. Oh, and a lot of people have expressed like similar opinions. And I just feel like there's some people in the balance team that are actually just smoking weed or getting in a hot box and just be like, what if we did this? And that's how strongly I feel about it. Yeah. So let me just see if I'm. I'm hearing you. I'm kind of getting the sense that, so I just, I've been jotting a couple things down as you've been talking. So this is just literally the words that I wrote down. And let me know if these kind of feel right. So feeling forced to play in a particular way, being forced to play a particular game for money, for fans, kind of struggling with the sense of illusion of choice, where in theory you could stop. In theory, they'll change the game in a different way, but that you're kind of forced. What I'm getting from you is sort of a sense of being forced into something.

Yeah. It's kind of like the feeling of, let's say you post on Twitter every day for the idea of getting likes, getting it popular and like, oh, I feel good. So many people like my tweet. And sometimes you tweet about stuff and people are like, who cares? Shut up. But it's like your Twitter account. So it's kind of like that too.

Yeah. So you said, you said that sometimes lull hurts you. You use the word of heart. Oh, a lot. Can you tell me what you meant by that? Sorry if I didn't give you enough text, I can. It's been a double-edged sword for me because it's obviously created a career for me and everything and put me where I am today. But, so there are many ways of explaining of how it hurts me.

For example, when we were talking about the changes while I was a pro, there's the concept of two versus oneing the top planer. So they would switch bottom and top. And that was a meta. That was a meta. They were constantly trying to fix for like three years. And that's something that hurt me when the jungler gang stuff. You're a top player? Yeah, I'm a top player.

Usually the top-laners have to deal with most of the harassment throughout the game because for junglers, they just have to farm creeps and worry about the enemy jungler. The mid-laners, they have a short lane, so they don't get punished as hard. Top-langers have the long lane, so there's more risk to me. Bottom-laners have their support. But top-laners... Left all alone. We're basically left all alone.

alone and we're forced to pick characters that will allow us to survive with less resources. But at the same time, you're also dealing with the enemy top laner where if he abuses that, the higher level play it goes, the harder it is. So there's just so many factors and things that I don't want to get too far into it. And so if we think about gaming burnout, is it sort of this idea of being forced to play in a particular way, being forced to play a game that the meta has changed away from what you want it to be, being forced to play League of Legends for your financial well-being, for the people that have supported you feeling kind of that you owe them or that, you know,

they've supported you so that you should give them what they want. Is that what you mean by burnout? No, I, that's just me expressing my pain. I guess what burnout really is is that I've played League of Legends for like 12 hours a day for for five to six years doing my pro career. And I guess what the burnout is really comes from is not only playing it so much and grinding it so much, but I guess what it comes from is not knowing how to take a break. I think that's what really creates it for me. Okay. So I'm, pardon me, but I'm, if I'm a bit concerned.

confused. So you said during your pro career. So when was, was that some time ago? Or is, are we talking about now? We talking about gaming burnout a while ago? It was a while ago. And I think I'm still kind of burnt out today as a gamer because I've played games every day of my life, basically. So what is the burnout that you, so like, let's just think about that, right? So that sounds kind of confusing to me. And I'm, I'm going to question your formulation of it. So it makes absolute sense, and I've dealt a lot with pro game or burnout and streamer burnout and things like that. Actually, my day job, I'm a burnout specialist.

So do a lot of work with burnout with investment banking, with entrepreneurs, with physicians. You know, there's like the 40-hour work week. And the funny thing is that, like, many physicians just find that to be preposterous. So like in residency, the expectation is that you work 80 hours a week. And the residency is what you do after med school when you're. you actually learn how to be a doctor. And so you have the national medical accreditation institution, which is called the ACGME. And they basically had to pass a law that said that you can't work your residents more than 80 hours a week on average.

So what that means is that like what residency programs do is they'll have some weeks where people will work like 100 hours a week. And then they'll have like a research block where they are supposed to be working like 50. hours a week. And it ends up like people work 80, 90, 100 hour weeks depending on whether you're a surgeon or psychiatrist or, you know, it just depends on what you do. And so, you know, it's strange because like in some, you know, you're kind of saying that 12 hours, 5 to 6 days a week is between 60 and 72 hours of work a week. Oh, no, I'm talking like seven days a week. Yeah. I don't have like a specific number, but the lifestyle was wake up, play all day, sleep.

Right. So that is like, I think oftentimes it may have been more than 12 hours, right? So like it may have been 14 or 16. And I think we should talk about that lifestyle because that's a lifestyle that you don't have to be a pro gamer to do it, right? Wake up, start with YouTube, switch to some gaming, watch a little bit of Twitch, go back to gaming. back to a little bit of YouTube, learn something philosophical on YouTube for a little while, you know, pull out your switch in bed, browse Reddit, and then sleep. It's like a, it's like a full day. So we can talk about that lifestyle. I'm sorry, do you want to say something?

Oh, okay. Yeah, that's the idea of it, but it's harder in a way because you're competing at the top level, so there's just more stressed involved. And instead of, instead of it sounding like something where you, you know, it's just the casual lifestyle. It's very much more stressful because you live with other people on your team and you deal with each other because of the gaming house such and such. And you're just all trying to figure out how to win. Yep. So if you want to, we can talk about that because I have some experience doing consulting for professional organizations for like physical sports and eating. sports. And I don't know where people got the idea that 12 hours a day, seven days a week,

makes you a better player than 10 hours a day, six days a week. Right? So like there's this huge assumption in the world of e-sports that the more you play, the better you get. And that the harder you grind, the more you perform. I don't know that that's actually the case. I think it. I think it really depends because I can't say that I've seen players who've played like there was a Korean player we played against and he was late to scrims because he would just be playing all night, all day. He'd sleep for like four hours and just play for the rest of the day. I guess the keyword here is being efficient about the time you put in. Yeah. And also, also efficiently resting. Yeah, I completely agree. And so some of the consulting work that I've done

has been around, you know, even like having people on the same pro team talk about their feelings with each other. Because a lot of times people get frustrated and upset with each other. And that like ultimately, the more frustrated and upset you are with your teammates, the harder it is to hit a flow state. And the one thing that I've heard time and time again, whether it's working with NFL players or Overwatch athletes, is like getting into the flow state is what wins you games. And the more you can stay in the flow state. It's being able, if you're in a best of five, like, losing one game and being able to forget about that and focus on the second game completely independent of whether your tournament life is on the line or not. It's just playing the best game you can play. And I think a lot of

that has way more to do with not just, it's just not the number of hours you put in. It's about being the best you. It's like you said, like kind of using your time efficiently, making sure you and your team are harmonious. Like if you guys lose a game, like, are you guys, blaming or is everyone blaming the top laner because they they two v one top and their ADC got fed and then they lost or do they recognize that the reason that the ADC got fed is because you didn't have enough support and and are you guys playing to win or are you guys playing to like you know blame each other so I think there's a lot in the realm of esports that I think is actually in its infancy and if you look at organizational psychology and in different organizations like um I forget

what Ray Dalio is. There's a hedge fund manager named Ray Dalio, and he wrote an excellent book called Principles. And he runs one of the most successful hedge funds in the world, and just kind of talking a little bit about how he runs his company. And I think there are a lot of ways to run organizations that can improve efficiency, and e-sports is just really, really behind. And you get guys that are former pro players that know the game really well, but really have no background in organizational behavior or management or anything like that. Anyway, now I'm ranting. But, um, but, um, but, you know, Dyrus, let me, let me toss something out. So like, I, so are you burnt out today because you were a pro five to six years ago? Like, why are you burnt out today? Um, so a few months

ago, I took a, I decided to completely stop streaming for three months, like just completely stop to see if I could feel better. Um, so I decided to completely stop. I could feel better or get better. And I did feel better about things, but I didn't feel like it made too much of a difference. Basically, like I said, before my life is I wake up, I eat, I stream, and I sleep. But I also have a, have a girlfriend. So they're girlfriends in between also. And so it started to become where I need to manage my time to the point where I can at least do my everyday adult responsibilities. And I think

one of the reasons why I feel burnt out is because since I've played so much games, it's really hard to find a game that's as fun as the time I enjoyed League of Legends. I'll enjoy some games for a few days, but a lot of the time in this year, and you'll hear a lot

of people I play games say this, is like, oh man, what games do I play? There's no good fun games to play. Man, I can't wait for a new game to come out so I can play that. And you play it and it only lasts so long and you just feel a lot of emptiness because you don't have a game to get addicted to. Now, for today, specifically, the game Valoran is out. So that's what I'm currently addicted to right now.

And how do you like that? It's just a cycle. I love the game. I think the only time I felt this comfort in the game is when they changed the headshot sound and when you shot them ahead it was like there's like a music like a sound cue playing like a music sound cue playing and then like I forget whatever

sound but they changed it to like this loud plate crunching sound and when you headshot people you'd hear that but they took it off but for that day was actually like one of the worst days I've had in like the last month, just because of that small thing. How do you understand why such a small thing could affect you so profound? Because I find joy in the sound cues when I, you know, I'm rewarded for playing well. And the addiction.

Sound cues and video games are actually super big to me. If, uh, if they're like badly done or poorly quality, no matter how good the game play as or no matter how good everything is. The sound is like a huge part of my gaming experience. Are you tired right now, Dirus? A little bit, but I always sound like this. And what is like this? Motone, low energy. When you say always, were you like this as a kid?

Depends on what time. as I was when I was a kid. Can I think for a second? Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry, you were saying? Thank you, by the way. So your question is, am I always like this as a kid? Yeah, were you always like this as a kid?

There's times where I was super energetic, but because I was teased and bullied throughout my school years, I became more shy and had anxiety with talking with people. that was very awkward. What happened when you became monotone with respect to the bullying? I think that's just my natural voice for when I became monotone. I get that. I mean, so it's interesting because you said I used to get excited and then after that sentence,

literally you said I would get bullied. Oh, yeah. And so it's strange for those two sentences to come back to back. I'm very bad at explaining things and telling stories, but basically, I'm not so sure I agree with that, but go ahead. So throughout my school life, I used to be nice to all the kids in class because I wanted to be funny. I wanted to make people laugh. I wanted to make people happy.

And there are some kids in my school that would take advantage of my kindness, even though I was like, even though I was like the biggest kid in class, I started to get bullied. And out of getting bullied, I would get angry. And they would tell on the teacher and tell me that I needed anger management because I would get mad at them and yell back at them. And so I had anger management in elementary school and I basically just used it as an excuse to get out of class. And so I'll ask you again. Mm-hmm. What happened to the bullies when you became monotone?

I guess that has nothing to do with it. Interesting. So I don't think you're a bad storyteller. I just don't think you're consciously aware of what you're saying. So when you say I'm a bad storyteller, what I hear is that these dots don't feel connected and I should tell a more complete story, right? You with me? Yeah, I'm with you.

But actually, I feel like the dots are very connected. What we're literally hearing, so let me tell you the story that I hear. here's a kid who's expressive and what happens when he is expressive um i got bullied and i got sad you got bullied and you got sad not just bullied right what when you expressed things you got bullied and how did you respond to that that bullying i got angry you and that's expression and then when you expressing so you expressed something first the first time you get bullied you express something else and then what happens? I got angry and then I would get sad because I was angry and then...

And then what did the teachers do? They put me in anger management. Which is a class that teaches you to do what? To control my anger. And become monotone. See that? Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Like literally, literally just think about it. this for a second, Dyrus. Literally, you were put in a class that taught you how to take what's on the inside and not show it to the people on the outside. Oh, so is that, oh, okay. Like, am I, is that, does that sound like a stretch to you? No, that, that actually, that makes sense. Yeah. And, and it's kind of weird. I mean, it's like, I couldn't get a more perfect answer from you in terms of, oh, this guy was actually taught this. Because it was weird, because you said, so I think, Dyrus, I don't think, I mean, there are a couple of statements that you made about, you know, that are a little bit devaluing. Like, I'm not a good storyteller. I don't think that

you're not a good storyteller. I think that there are things that your mind is piecing together, which consciously you don't understand. But I think you understood this all along because you, you actually, it's strange to say, I used to be an excited kid and I used to enjoy making people laugh. and then I got bullied. And I asked you a little bit about, like, have you always been this way? And so your mind is already piecing together monotoneness, being excited as a kid and getting bullied.

Like those three sentences are linked in your mind in some way, and you're just not entirely sure how they fit together. And because you're not sure how they fit together, you can't tell a clear story about it. But if I ask you, the story's right there. Is that, am I being too abstract? I'm sorry. No, no, you're, you're completely correct.

That's, that's exactly how I am. I'm not able to tell it clearly. Because I don't think you understand it clearly. Right. So, so I think that you know it, but you don't understand it. And, and the answers are there. You just have to learn a process of accessing them. And now I'm going to share with you something that's really kind of bizarre.

So this isn't, I could be completely. completely wrong here. But like you're telling me that you're burnt out, right? And you're telling me like when I asked you originally about burnout, you said 12 hours a day for like five to seven days a week. And when I pressed you a little bit further, it's basically gaming all day every day. TSM House, pro gamer, all this kind of stuff. But like, it's weird because it's like, why the fuck are you burnt out now? Like when I, my first answer, your first answer to where, when did you experience burnout? Because you talked about something that you haven't been a pro now for four years, right?

And I'm not saying that you aren't burnt out now. I'm just saying it's kind of strange that your answer, it's like, oh, yeah, why are you sad? And someone says, yeah, you know, I had a really a toxic relationship four years ago. And it's like, sure, that probably has something to do with it. But it's strange that the burnout has kind of lingered so long. Does that make sense? Yeah. Go ahead.

I guess that my lifestyle from four years ago, the only thing that's changed is that instead of it being super high skill and competitive and stressful and being in a team environment, it went from that to just putting all my time into streaming and at the same time, it took up my time, which was good for me. But I went through a lot of pain at the end of the year because I stopped playing and I had a relationship where I broke up. End of the year is meaning which year?

End of my pro career. Okay. And when I stopped playing pro, I broke up, so I felt a lot of pain during the time. And then I got over it. Just a roller coaster of emotions throughout the next years. I moved out of the TSM house. I lived with one of my former teammates.

I had to learn how to take adult responsibilities because I always ignored all of that because the team would take care of it, paying rent, paying electricity, moving in a... You know what you sound like? You sound like a fucking topliner. Do I? I mean, just think about it, right?

The roller coaster, being done with the pro team, moving out, losing your girlfriend. you're alone. I think a lot of people can relate with that. I think a lot of people can too. Yeah, but I, yeah, I do have the top planar mentality. Yeah.

I don't, I don't, I, anyway, keep going. I didn't mean to interrupt. Oh, so. I mean, I'm going to, but I'm sorry. So I, um, I moved from the TSM house, which was in L.A. to an apartment. near them, and then I live there for two years, and then I moved to Austin, Texas for two years, and now I bought a house in Wichita, Kansas. And so now I live in Wichita, Kansas.

Do you feel like you're left all alone? No, I've had a girlfriend for the last three years. Sure. I understand you have a girlfriend. Do you feel like you've been left all alone? as like a player or this person or just in general. Do those words mean something to you? Do they resonate with how you feel?

They do. I feel like because I'm not a pro anymore, I've learned that there's a lot of people that lose interest in me because I'm not pro, which is understandable. But the ones that have pretended to be closer than they really are, have also shown. And I, there's like,

there's like three different phases of it. The first one is I'm a pro player, lots of fans, people talk about me every day when I was a pro. Confession here, when I was a pro, I would do things like look up my own name. That's a,

that's something where I enjoyed the intention, the attention. And, um, so that was the first phase. I would stop being pro. The second phase was I'm just a streamer. I retired.

I was still relevant as a streamer, and I kept streaming every day. And slowly, as I played more and more, I cared less for being good at the game. And with that, people also started to care about me less. And it slowly became this thing where I was scared of being irrelevant. I was scared of, you know, losing value of being, being relevant

and so I thought to myself for a long time like what matters to me most and so it was hurting me and I so I decided to quit league after a certain point

and then the last phase was still trying to decide do I care about being relevant or do I care about what's happy like what's good for me but they're all connected in some kind of way.

So it's just like, it's like if you, behind your PC, there's a bunch of cords and it gets all over the place. That's how, that's how I feel about my different phases of life. Like,

there's just, the chords are just everywhere and I don't know how to. That's fucking burnout, buddy. I'm going to tell you something that's going to sound absolutely crazy. I don't think it has to do with your pro career. I don't think it's any of that shit.

I think it's all the, cord's being untangled. I think life is overwhelming. Like you don't know what to do. You don't know what's going to make you feel good. You don't know what you should do. You don't know how to make money. You don't know how to have fun. I ask you, do you feel like you're left all alone? And then you say, I have a girlfriend. And then I ask you the same damn question again. I'm not trying to beat you up here, right? Let me know. By the way, you're going to go fuck myself at any point. No, no, no. You're completely fun. And then you say, I have a girlfriend. And then I ask you. do you feel left alone and you're like, I'm not sure what that means. Then I ask you a third time,

do those words sit with you and you say yes. And there we see your confusion because you're like in some part of your mind, you're thinking to yourself, I shouldn't feel this way because I have a girlfriend. Like in what, where does feeling alone come from? Because I've done the things. I'm in Wichita. I have some real friends. I recognize I don't. I have some fake friends. I figured out who those are because you're solving so many problems. Like you're doing so good, right? And that's why it's so fucking confusing. You've moved to Wichita. You've figured out sort of what you're going to do for your mental health. You've got this girlfriend. You're playing Valorant. It's a lot of fun. And like you're checking all the boxes,

but like you feel wrong. You feel alone and burnt out. And like there's a lot of shit tangled up behind the computer. And you don't know what plugs into what and what goes where and which cord does what? You know it's all there in some way, but it's just not fit together. Yeah, I completely agree. What are you feeling right now? A little bit of relief. Or maybe a tear in my eye.

A little happy, I guess. Oh, your daughter, oh, never mind. Yeah, I don't know if that was, but... Sensitive to sound, huh? Yeah. I am sensitive to sound. Yeah, I see that. I think you're a really sensitive guy.

What do you think? I've been told that a lot, but I've always tried to put up the front of, you know, holding it down. Yeah, monotone. I hold it in a lot. I don't think this is burnout. I think it's burden.

Burden. Because here's what was confusing to me, right? is that you say, okay, I ask you the first question. And really, I'm not trying to say you're stupid or anything. I'm just pointing out what your mind is doing, okay? So just try to pay attention. I ask you about burnout. Your first thing is you talk about life as a pro.

And that was four years ago. So is that the source of your burnout? And then you say, well, I sort of continued that lifestyle. I wake up every day. I still do all this kind of stuff. Okay, so like maybe it's the lifestyle. Maybe it's streaming. And you were like, yeah, but I replace programming with streaming.

That makes sense, too. Streamers get burnt out all the time. And then comes the really confusing thing, which is that you say I took a break for three months. And it helped a little. Now, that's really confusing. Because if it's the programming and if it's the streaming and you took a break from it, then that should help a lot. So either you're doing your standard thing where you sort of downplay the impact of things. You say a little bit, like you say maybe a tear in my eye.

Right? You have this tendency to use like small words. so maybe it's that. But I think it's a clue that it's not actually those environments. And I know this sounds completely crazy, but I think you carry the burnout with you. And I think that one of the most confusing things about being a human being, especially when you've been entrained to not feel what you feel on the inside.

And if you really want to understand this, we have to talk about your internship with your dad's company. Okay. Right. and I think we'll get a lot there. But that you're a guy who has taken what you feel and you've shoved it aside for the sake of other things, for the sake of not getting in trouble in class.

You've taken your excitement and your joy and you've put them aside because of your fear of bullying. You've taken your frustration when people bully you and you try to defend yourself. And then the teacher, like, breathes down your neck and then you got put in an anger management class. And those kids are like, fuck you, Dyrus. You suck.

And then you're not allowed to say anything. And you become a pro player where, like, no one cares that you're tired. No one cares that you're left all alone in the top plate at a shitty fucking meta, where it's 2 v1 top. Like, no one fucking cares. They're like, fuck you, guys. Yeah, that is the general idea. But I don't want, I want to say this because that would be disrespectful towards the people that have cared for me.

Like, there are a lot of people that have supported me in my community that have watched me for a long time and have supported me for a long time. So I don't, I don't want to forget about sure. Because it's so easy to focus on the negative. Yeah. So I'm, I'm, so let me be clear. I'm glad you said that. I'm not trying to paint everyone with a bad brush, although I am doing exactly that. The reason that I'm doing that is because I'm amplifying because you're suppressing. So I'm going to blow things out of proportion. Okay. And then I think somewhere in the middle between you downplaying things and me like up playing things, we're going to arrive at somewhere near the truth. Which is not that it's, it's not that it's your, your kids, I mean, your parents,

teammates. My kid is shouting my name in the background. But my, it's not your teammates' fault that the meta is that way. But I think it still speaks to, um, I think they're hunting for her, because she's looking for me and she usually winds up in here. But I think somewhere along this is like, it's the feeling of being left all alone. Right. And there's something about a feeling. There's something about a burden that you carry with you.

There's something about what you feel in terms of burnout. That actually is not because you're a pro player or because you're a streamer. Because if you took a three-month break, that should have made a big difference. If that's the source of it. So this is the really crazy thing is that when we think, think about life and we think about why we feel the way that we do, we tend to attribute the way that we feel to external things. You say the reason I'm burnt out is because I was a pro, is because I'm a streamer. You know, the reason that I'm unhappy is because my wife doesn't do X, Y, Z,

or my girlfriend doesn't care about me enough, or the reason that I feel alone is because I don't have a girlfriend, right? I feel so lonely because I have no one to love and no one loves me and all this kind of shit. And then the funny thing is that you've done some of those things that are supposed to make those feelings go away. And then it's kind of confusing. And then you end up with all the cords behind your PC. Because this is how you're supposed to feel. And I'm sure that you do feel, I mean, I'm not sure, but I imagine you feel loved and appreciated by your girlfriend and all that stuff. Like you have all the positive things in the relationship that the girlfriend is supposed to give you. And yet you still feel left alone. And that's exactly my

point. It's not the girlfriend. It's not that you are pro player. It's not that you're a streamer. This is something that you carry within you. It's something you've carried for a long time. And now this is kind of cool because what this means, it's kind of cool and it's kind of crappy. Because on the one hand, you don't have to change anything in the outside world. You don't have to be a pro again. What this means is that you're not forced into playing something for your fans or your money or whatever.

Like, you can, if you need money and streaming is the way that you're going to get it, that's fine. But the feelings that you have inside are not controlled by what happens on the outside. So the cool thing is like that should be a little bit liberating. And it should also be really, really confusing because then like what the fuck are they controlled by? Right. Any thoughts so far? Are we good? Questions?

I feel like for the three-month break, I, I feel like one of the reasons why it didn't really help as much but helped a little bit was because I don't know how to take a break. One of the things my girlfriend has mentioned to me is that I should try and find another hobby because my mind is so reliant on playing games. Because other than playing games, the only other thing that I do is watch anime or read manga or watch TV shows. and I can't really find anything else that holds me up the same way. For example, when the Valerant change happened, I was having a really shitty day.

And I don't know, there's not my favorite TV shows. There's no episodes out. I don't know what to watch. Like, what it was? Yeah, I'm with you. So we're going to talk about dopamine exhaustion and how your brain may really not be helping you right now, but I want to point something else out to you. I don't know how to take a break. Is that something in the outside world or is that something on the inside world? Is that within you or

is that something in the environment? I think that's mostly within me because if I had if I had to choose like my priorities in life, like gaming is like top three. Sure. What does that have to do with not knowing how to take a break? So I don't, I don't know what to do to feel relaxed, I guess. Okay. I beautiful sentence, okay, and therein lies your problem. What to do to feel.

Okay. We're going to help you out, Dyrus. I'm going to try. So I'm going to give you another sentence. I should learn a new hobby. is that something on the inside or something on the outside? It's something told from the outside, and it's something that on the inside, it's like, yeah, I should do that.

But then I don't. So a hobby is external, right? Like, the point here is that you don't know how to take a break, and so your girlfriend says learn a hobby. But like, and I'm going to say the last thing. So now here's the beautiful sentence. I don't know what to do to feel relaxed. So that implies that your relaxation comes from something on the outside.

Does that make sense? I don't know what to do to feel relaxed. Yes, I think that is accurate. Right? So the thing, the hypothesis that I'm asking you to entertain is that you are looking for far too many solutions on the outside. And if we look at it, like the more that we look at your problem, you say, I'm burnt out because I was a pro player. I'm burnt out because I'm a streamer. But then if we want to be really scientific about it,

then removing those things should relieve your burnout. But when you did that for three months, it didn't really relieve your burnout. And in fact, when you did that, so that didn't work. And then when we ask you why, it's because I don't know how to take a break. That's the answer.

The answer isn't that you should find something else to distract you. And you kind of say like, okay, I need anime or manga or whatever. But like the point is that you have things to distract you. You have shows. You can play Valerrant. You know how to engage. your mind, but despite engaging your mind and watching anime and reading manga and playing Valerent and whatever, you still carry this feeling of being left alone, of feeling burnt

out. Like, that's something you carry within you and no amount of doing any shit outside is ever going to fix that. Like, finding a new hobby is not going to fix that. It's just going to teach you to be distracted from it. Like, do you see how your mind moves from distraction to distraction? you have to rotate because as the dopamine from Valerant starts to get like as you build up tolerance from the dopamine release from Valerent you have to move to anime and then you build up tolerance to that and then you have to move to manga and then you build up tolerance to that and then you cross your fingers and you hope that by the time you burn through your three there's something you can watch on Netflix and by the time you

burn through that by then your dopamine will have like recalibrated with Valerate you can go back to square one. And what we see is a generation of people that move from distraction to distraction to distraction. YouTube, Reddit, Twitch, gaming. YouTube, Reddit, Twitch, gaming, anime, manga, D&D. I can't tell you how many times that I catch myself just clicking on Twitter over and over.

Twitter. And so our society is like, yeah, man, you want another hit? Like, let me show you Twitter. Let me show your Reddit. like here, man. Like, oh, yeah, that cocaine is really good, but you should really try a speedball, toss some heroin in there.

Take a little bit of TikTok. I've told a lot of my friends this, that, so in Hawaii there's a lot of drug trafficking, and every person I knew had some kind of connection to drugs. And when I was in middle school and I was sad, I got peer pressured into trying some drugs, and I tried a bunch of drugs. I always told my friends, I asked my friends, do you know what the number one drug of them all for me is?

And the reason why I don't do drugs, it's just video games. Video games is my strongest addiction. It's not that you don't do drugs. You just don't ingest substances. Big difference. What we're addicted to is avoidance, right? It's like all these things and like, I'm with you, man. Like, you know, my dopamine gets going too.

It's a beautiful story. But I think that Dyrus, your answers are not, it's like nothing on the outside, man. It's all on the inside. And this is what Lutth has said. Yeah, go ahead. So what do I, what do I do? Yeah, like, that's the question to ask. It's a great question.

Okay. So the answer, unfortunately, is a little bit complex. But let me just think for a second. But the first thing is that you've done a big part today. Like, because just in realizing, like, like, you know, that the answer is not on the outside is going to be huge because I think so far for most of your life you've been looking for answers on the outside. And I think, I mean, in some ways it's going to feel it's going to be easier than you think it is, but you can't really do it, which makes it hard. I know it sounds kind of weird.

I know I completely understand that statement. So please explain it to us because it's like when you see someone do something, it's. easier said than done because there's so many complex things that go into it. Some people just have a knack for it that just understand certain parts of it. And for others, it's, it can be something as simple as like whistling. You know, you, some people just naturally can whistle and when I was little, I can't, I can't whistle now. I can never whistle. But for some people, it seems simple, but maybe there's some kind of feeling in my mouth or shape that I'm supposed to make to whistle, but I can't do it because I don't.

It just doesn't click with me. It's a beautiful example. So here's the thing. I think whistling is the perfect example. So I think it's like whistling in the sense that you got to try and you've got to try and you've got to try. And then one day you're going to do it. That's really how it works. And that's why, you know, people talk about enlightenment.

You've heard of enlightenment. it's like, you know, the Buddhists and Hindus talk about it a fair amount. Yay, nay. I'm sorry, could you repeat that? You're familiar with the concept of enlightenment, yay or nay? You need a primer. Like Buddhism, Christian, missionary, Christian, like being stuck in a closet for two hours to see who you really are.

I don't know, something like that. Something like that. There's this idea that, like, you know, people reach this moment. of realization where they discover their true self and that they feel like they're blissful and happy and their suffering all goes away and shit like that. And I think the problem is like realization comes in moments, right? I'm sure there have been times in your life or like if you think about your pro lead career where in the process of becoming a pro like one day something clicked for you and then you understood something that you didn't understand for. And then you

became better because of it. Does that make sense? Um, I understand the concept. Yeah. Okay. And so the tricky thing about, you know, how do you learn to take a break, which is I think what you need to do. Um, you know, it's, it's hard. It's kind of like whistling. You just have to keep trying at it for a while. And then you'll kind of like, you'll hit upon it one day. And I can give you some, I'll give you some more structured answer than that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, there is one thing that I've, been missing this entire time that I wanted to mention. That's also caused all this.

So when you have fans, there's negative reactions and positive, obviously. But I think one of the things that causes me to be stress out and irritated is when I stream or maybe post something on Twitter, there's like Twitch chat, you know, how Twitch chat can get it under everyone's skin. maybe someone asked the same question you've been answering for months. A good example is when I stopped playing League of Legends several years ago, I kept that getting asked, play league, when are you playing League? And I put out like two videos, I put a command for it.

I've expressed it so many times. And I get told this, like, I swear to God, if there was a command that triggered every time I've been asked the same question of the common question of when are you going to play league. Right now the common question is, are you and your girlfriend still together? That one's the common one now. But I swear to God, it's been asked at least in the five digits amount of times. And that is something that really just gets to me. And I've been trying to numb out.

What gets to you about that? Let's talk about that. Thanks for sharing, by the way. Yeah, I wanted, I felt like something was missing and all this. You're absolutely right. And I wonder if Twitch chat can figure out what it is. What bothers you about that? Don't look at Twitch chat, by the way.

They're pretty good at this by now. I have Twitch chat off. I made sure to not have it on this entire time. No map. Yeah. No, of course not. So when I first became quote unquote a pro famous, I didn't see myself as it, but people come up for autographs. You know, I'm happy to answer all the questions, talk to them.

But after a long time, it's like I still like doing it a little bit. As long as people are happy, I'm happy. but the constant questioning of the same thing over and over just gets to me and I start to act more negatively and negatively and let's say someone asked how are you doing

and instead of being like I could easily just be like fine I end up ignoring it or maybe if I'm a bad mood I act negatively so let's forget about your reaction Let's rewind a little bit. They ask and ask and ask. How does that make you feel, Dirus? When they ask over and over and over again.

It's really irritated, bitter. And I guess that's... What are you irritated by? Being asked the same question over and over and having to answer it over and over again. What's irritating about that? What does that mean? What kind of question gets... Why do you have to answer something over and over?

over and over again. Because if I'm streaming, I feel like I should interact with my chat. Sure, that's why you're streaming. But let's just think about this for a second, okay? Like, what's... Let me just think about whether I want to just tell you or try to walk you to it.

Because I don't know how to ask the questions the right way. So I'll ask you this, Cyrus. Has there been a time in your life when people didn't listen? All the time. I actually, I'm actually a very special case for that. There's been many instances where I've said things and not just people asking the same question over and over, but just like even people that I know, even in a competitive environment, when I'll say something and it's just completely ignored. So I want to forget about your lead career. I want to go under the age.

How old are you now, Dirus, if you don't mind me asking? I am 28. All right. So we're going to go back to 18 or the latest I'm going to let you go is to when you quit your internship or you got fired. Tell me about how you were not listened to before that. I don't have great memory. Okay. That's okay. I'm thinking about it, though. It has happened. I guess the easiest example I can think of is I've had friends who became in relationships.

and I was always in the middle of it. I guess I was good friends of both of them, so I'd kind of be like in the twilight zone. And I would tell them certain things. Like if you do this, this is going to happen or you shouldn't do this. It's this is going to happen. And they don't listen and it happens. And I'm just like, what was the point of saying in the first place?

You know? why ask me if you're not going to listen and I've had that situation a lot in many different scenarios is left is in the twilight zone does that feel like left all alone um for that not not really that's fine not as much

I'm just trying to understand by what what you meant by that term not everything has to be connected by the way yeah okay you know um yeah So let me ask you, can I ask you a couple of questions? Yeah, go ahead. Can you tell me about how you ended up?

Can you tell me a little bit about growing up in Hawaii? So I grew up in a pretty big house. I had my mom, dad, grandma, auntie, and cousin living in the same house. We lived right across like a college and a school. growing up my dad gave me the belt because I what happened was that I threw you know those videotape cassettes I threw one at my cousin and she was laughing so I was like oh she likes this so I threw another one she started bleeding and crying and then I got the belt because yeah I was a dumb kid but um how old were you I was like three years old

three, four years old. And so, growing up in that household, my grandma would babysit me. The video games that my parents bought for me babysit me. I guess I kind of bullied my cousin a little bit at the start, but then I stopped. I was actually kind of a mean kid growing up when it came to some things.

but I immediately stopped after a certain point. Like there was a time where I just think. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Oh, there was a time where I've, now I think back on it that I was kind of mean. But I never was like trying to be mean. It was just, I was just saying or doing whatever I felt like.

I was more free as a kid. What did you want to say? why do kids why are kids mean I mean aside from the general fact that all all kids are fucking mean um because I didn't know anything

I don't know any boundaries the only boundaries I followed were the rules that were set to me let me ask you something do kids do something so when a kid speaks this is going to be sound of kind of

this stupid question, so it may not even make sense. When a kid speaks, is a kid able to speak because they know something or because they don't know something? They just do it because they want to. Sure. But the capacity of speech for a child, is that because of something that a child knows or because of what a child doesn't know? Because they know how to speak the language.

Right? So like if I have a kid that goes pee pee pee pee on the potty versus pee somewhere else. like is it because the kid knows where to go pee-p or kind of doesn't know where to go pee-p-p? I'm being- Sorry, could you repeat that? It's a dumb question. So I'll just be, instead of asking you questions, I'm just going to say it. So I think kids are taught things, right? Kids do what they're taught to do.

That's how kids learn. Right. So like, you know, if you're a mean kid, I don't think that's because you didn't know better any better. I think it's actually exactly the opposite. it's because that's what you knew. Does that make sense? Like kids do things.

So like, you know, I've worked with kids that will, so I one time worked with a kid that would tear holes in stuffed animals and put pieces of candy inside the butthole that it would make for the child. I mean, so they would make a butthole in a stuffed animal and it would stuffed candy in there. Okay.

Why do you think that kid does that? Like a three and a half year old? To store it, maybe making a pinata. No, it's because someone did that to that child. Oh, yeah, that is a very, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. How are you feeling right now, Darius?

It's just one of those extreme examples. it kind of reminds me of when destiny makes those extreme examples, just kind of token back, I guess. What do you think about you being a mean kid? I guess I would say I didn't know anything, but after what we said, it doesn't seem like to be the right thing to say. Yeah, absolutely. I know it doesn't feel that way to you,

but remember that like the whole theme of this conversation, Dyrus is that things don't appreciate. appear to make sense for you, even though you understand them. Right? Even when we think about like burnout and when we think about, you know, I think what, there are a lot of things here that you understand that I just don't think you know you understand. And I'm not surprised at all.

You were a mean kid. And I knew you were going to be a mean kid. The second you said two words. Can you, any, any idea what those words are? Maybe Twitter chat knows. When I get irritated when people repeat themselves? Nope. The belt.

Uh. Okay. How do you understand? What am I trying to say? Any idea? Because I got the belt at a young age that caused me to be afraid. Not just afraid, buddy.

No, no, no. You're missing this. So like, you got the belt and what was your dad being to you in that moment? Mean to me. Absolutely.

So kids learn what they're taught. right? Right. And I think it's weird because you say I used to be a mean kid until one day I woke up and I wasn't anymore. And I think that's the day that you started to think for yourself in some way.

But I think you were just doing, like, you were throwing objects at someone and you thought it was fun until they started getting hurt. And like you didn't understand any better, right? Like you just, it's so interesting that you remember, you have such a clear memory, as a three-year-old because I don't know

if you know this, but like three olds don't really have good memory. I have a few, like, I remember standing on the scale and I'm being like, oh, I'm 50 pounds. How old were you? Three years old. And there. What else? I think three is when I started to be conscious of things. And I think one of the, I think one of the reasons.

I, I think one of the reasons. why I remember a lot is because I played video games and I remember a lot of video games. Well, that's, I don't, maybe that's not it. I think that I can remember a lot of video games because I played a lot of video games. Yeah, so I think, I don't, I think it's the other way around. I think you're demonstrating that you had memories way clear of video games at a very young age. right so so if anything you just remember video games because you became conscious at a very young age it's not the other way around video games aren't the causative factor it's just that yeah yeah yeah

yes i mean and and so i i'm hearing that you learn yeah i mean so when you weighed yourself at the age of three and you were 50 pounds how did you treat yourself and how did other people treat you it didn't mean anything it's just a memory okay can I just think for a second? Oh, go ahead. Darius, I'm not getting the sense that we're going to be able to tie this up with a nice, neat bow. Okay. In the next 30 minutes.

I mean, there are many questions that I want to ask. I think we're getting on the important stuff, but like... We can just get to the point, like the stuff that really matters. Well, I mean, I think all of this really matters. I'm just not... sure we're going to you know so so in my mind the tying up the bow is in teaching you how to take a break it's about helping you be more in tune with your internal environment it's about not suppressing the things that you feel and making sense of things that you don't

understand it's a tall order i just don't think it can be accomplished in the next 30 minutes right and i think that there's just so much here that is like low-hanging fruit like i don't think you appreciate or I would love it if you could learn to appreciate or explore. I mean, I could be wrong here. Let me put it this way. So I think you feel the way that you do because it's not burn it. Like you carry the burnout with you. It's not because of an external thing. It's because of an internal thing. I think you get frustrated with people because you haven't been listened to. And like I can imagine a child in so many situations that you've described being frustrated. frustrated because they aren't listened to.

I can imagine when your dad pulls out the belt, you try to explain to him, I thought she was having fun and him not giving a shit. Like, I can see your genuine confusion. I can imagine a three-year-old's genuine confusion or not even having the words to be able to say that, but just like trying to explain to like your dad as he like pulls off the belt that like you didn't mean to. Right? Because you remember that.

You remember that she was laughing and you remember why you threw it again. And you remember that there was no malice in your heart and you got beat for it. And that you had a different side of the story. And then we can fast forward to grade school when like kids make fun of you and they bully you and then you fight back.

And then the teacher comes over. They go, they provoke you and they bully you and then they go tell on you. And the teacher comes over and then what do you try to do? you try to explain and you say, no, they started it. And the teacher doesn't listen. And then we also get this complex that you've been showing us a little bit of about like how you're not good with your words and you don't understand like, you know, you said that a couple of times.

Like I'm not being clear or something like that. And I think that somewhere along the way like you started to feel like people don't listen to you. And then we know this because I'll ask you these questions. I'll be like, you know, I sort of asked you in a bunch of different ways. And then I said, Dyrus, do you feel like you haven't been listened to? And you're like all the time. And if it's all the time, do you see how that means that you carry it with you? It's been with you all along.

If it's all the time, it's not an external environment. It's you. Does that make sense? Yes. That makes sense. And so. And then when we think about being burnt out, it's like there's a sense of confusion about your life. And there's a sense of being left all alone.

And I don't know where that comes from. But I think that, I mean, I think it comes back to like this story. I mean, I think we're going to find a lot. I mean, I don't really know. But the story that you described to me about your dad and his company. Like, can you just tell us that? Like, what happened in high school and, and it sounds like you got, I mean, when you say you got the belt, so it sounds like that wasn't a one time occurrence.

Oh, it was only one time. It was only one time. Yes. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Okay, so...

Was your dad mean to you in other ways? Um, I mean, sometimes I got yelled at for doing dumb things. Sounds pretty normal. Oh, in third grade, uh,

he took me into our, he put me in baseball because, uh, You know, it'd be good to give me a hobby growing up, just give me to sports early. Maybe I could be a next home run hero, you know, I'll go MLB. But so we went to baseball practice and all our teammates weren't there. Like they were at another basketball game watching like friends or family doing a basketball game. And we were there and we forgot they told us.

And so I showed my dad my math homework, and I thought it was right, but he said it was wrong. And so he got irritated at me for half-assing it, which I always did. I always half-assed things a lot, but I would always do them. And he's like, all right, boy, let's play catch, you know. And so I played catch with him. And my form was like a little off. I also was scared of the ball because when the baseball is being thrown at you, I just, you know, flinch. I'm not as used to it.

I'm scared of being hit. Sure. And so he got irritated. He got irritated that I was flinching. The story is probably clear from him, but basically he was irritated at me because I was flinching. I wasn't, you know, throwing the ball right, kind of being a sissy. and one time he threw it hard and it hit my left eye and I got a bruise on my left eye and I and I fell over and I remember the line when he talks about today he's like damn boy I thought I killed you I was scared to death and he told me that he learned a life lesson there and he started to be nicer after that but yeah that that really hurt getting hit by baseball in the eye so that was that was another time where he was mean or angry to me but he

he he actually learned something like a big thing about that diress you're laughing what's funny about that because when we talk about it my dad laughs about it and i i think about it as a as an event where i didn't cry i was just like in pain. Dyrus, what's funny about it? It's just a thing I can look back on. It's just an event. He looks so terrified why I say it like that.

Yeah, because I don't, I'm asking you a question and you're not giving me an answer, and so I'm bludgeoning you. Here come my baseballs. What's funny about it? I'm not sure. Is it funny? sure. It seems funny to me, but I don't know why. Yeah. So let me tell you the story that I heard. Yeah. There's this one time. Yeah, I took my third grade kid out to the, out to play baseball. And that, that dumbass hadn't done his math homework, right? And so he was like, he's such a fucking sissy. He, like, didn't know how to catch. And so I threw the ball at him and I threw harder and harder and harder. And he was flinching.

I, okay. That paints it in a bad. And then I popped him in the head and boy, I almost killed him. Then I learned my lesson. So funny. I think what was funny to me is because my dad, for the first time in my life, I realized that my dad was super scared from it. And that's something I've, that's a side I've never seen by him.

Super scared of what? thought he thought he really hurt like killed me or something you know you're telling me for that for the first time in your life in the third grade you saw a sign from your dad that he cared about you no he that makes me feel so bad thinking about that way i i understand i remember i'm amplifying because you're yeah right right um so so here's what i so dyrus here's what i want you to notice, okay? Okay. You can feel like a bad person for thinking or saying those things.

And I may be amplifying, right? Like, I may not be characterizing it. Like, because you haven't told me the thousand stories about your dad when he did demonstrate his caring. I don't think your dad was an asshole. Mm-hmm. Okay? But, like, I want you to just notice, notice the stories that you're saying.

Because the story that you told me is not funny. When your dad tells that story, the fact that he laughs is also not funny. Like, that's not funny, man. I understand that we laugh at it, and there's a very good reason that we laugh at it. We laugh at it because humor is a defense mechanism. And because sometimes when things become morbid, we laugh because that's the only way that we can't deal with it. But the problem is that, like, you know, your dad laughs because it makes him uncomfortable. But I really do think that there's something a little bit like, there's something a little bit off about this whole picture.

Right. there's something a little bit off about, you know, you laughing because your dad was scared of hurting you. Like, what the fuck? It's. And I'm not. Yeah, go ahead. Okay.

Um, you can continue. So I'm not saying, I'm not saying that I am painting a picture of reality. And I'm not trying to shame you. And I understand if you feel guilt or shame or that sounds bad. And I understand that like most parents are like not perfect. And I'm sure that your dad loved you. And I'm sure that in a lot of ways he was a good dad. And he tried his best and like all that kind of stuff.

I'm not trying to turn him into a demon. But I am pointing out that I think something in your life left a couple of scars. Oh, yeah. My parents were divorced. I forgot to mention that. Okay, sure. And what I see in you today is because like my whole point here, so like I'm going to try to sort of wrap things together, okay?

Not to say that we're done because I don't know how to how you fix this. But here's the first thing that I'm noticing. That your burnout sure has a lot to do with your lifestyle and stuff like that, but that some of your burnout you carry with you. It's like it's on the inside. It's not on the outside. And that no amount of hobbies, anime, gaming, Netflix, or girlfriends, because it sounds like you do pretty well for yourself.

Yeah, I am very first world problem kind of thing. Yeah. but no amount of that stuff is going to make that shit go away. Because you've, and like, that's like a statement of science. Like, it's a statement of empiricism.

Because you've tried it all, right? You've tried three month breaks. You've tried watching anime. You've found a really fun game. You have a girlfriend. You're doing all of the things that should make the feelings go away, but they don't go away.

So the first thing to understand is that burnout is coming from here, not something on the outside. Okay. And what is burnout? The two themes that I'm hearing from you are feeling forced to play, feeling forced into things. And that, I think, is tied to people not listening. I think somewhere along the way, like, you sort of learned the lesson that people don't listen. And it hurts.

And so you've got to go back and you've got to explore that hurt. Like when people should have listened and they didn't. when riot listened didn't listen they should have listened and they didn't right when your teammates should have listened and they didn't when fucking Twitch chat should have listened because you've answered a thousand times and they didn't and you're going to see this pop up because I can predict that the conflict that you have with your girlfriend is about her not listening I think I don't want to get too deep into the that because I

Sure. Yeah. But I, I want to say that we feel differently about things. Sure. And I all, I, I, I just want to clarify that, yes, this a lot, everything you just said, yeah, I feel that way. But I just want to clarify that I'm also not the perfect human being for. Absolutely. So we're not talking about, we're not talking about her being right or wrong.

and we're not talking about whether she does listen or she doesn't listen. What I'm saying is that you are sensitive to people not listening and that you are going to perceive y'all's conflict in your relationship is her not listening. Or any time that she doesn't listen, that's going to hurt you more because you're already wounded there. Does that make sense? It's not even going to be like,

like it's reasonable for her to not listen sometimes. Like partners aren't perfect. But what I'm saying is that you kind of got like a particular vulnerability. Like that's the chink in your armor. Right. That's your weak spot. That's where you get critically hit. Okay.

Your critical hits are around people not listening, feeling forced into things that you don't want to do, and feeling left all alone. And those are the things that we've heard you in some way kind of talk about. When I ask you, you know, when have you not been listened to? And you're like, all the fucking time. Right. So that tells us like, that's a weak spot. and that's where you get critically hit. And so as you go through life,

but the problem here is that anytime we get critically hit, we look on the outside and we say like, oh, man, that weapon hurts a lot. But the problem isn't that the weapon is critically hitting you. The problem is that you have a weak spot.

It's not about the weapon. It's about you. I think I kind of create that weak spot sometimes. You absolutely create that weak spot. That's my whole fucking point. Okay. That makes sense. Is that this stuff you carry with you

and comes from with you. in you. And that no amount of finding a hobby is going to keep you from creating that weak spot. And this is the really tricky thing because you actually have control over this. You absolutely create it. And that also gives you power. Right. If you're responsible for something, if it's truly your fault, and this is a big problem that people do, right? Is we blame things for we blame ourselves for things that we're not empowered for. Like, it's like either you have the power. We feel powerless and we blame ourselves. Those two things cannot fit together. Those two things don't work together. If it's your fault, then you had the power. And if you're powerless, it's not your

fault. But that's not what we tell ourselves. We play this really fucked up game where we're like, we blame ourselves for this, but we feel like we're powerless. No. And so I do think you can control it. I mean, control it in the sense of, I think you need to heal it. It needs healing, right? It doesn't, it's not like. And so the question is how? So I think the first thing that I would say is notice look for these three things in your life and notice when they pop up. Are you feeling left? Are you feeling like a fucking top layer? Is this the fucking top lane all over again? Where you're trying to do stuff and like you're trying to pay bills and no one's helping you pay bills and you're supposed to take care of this and you're supposed to take care of that and you've been left out in the

wind. That's a feeling you should look for. Number two feeling is like when do people not listen? So look for these things. Just notice them within yourselves. And as you know, notice them, recognize that those may or may not be applicable to the actual situation, that some of this is coming from you. It's not actually that the dagger is like a piece of epic gear. It's that you have a weak spot. Like the problems aren't in the external world. They're in here.

The first thing you've got to do is train yourself to look within instead of look outside. Okay. Second thing is to think back to where that weakness became exposed. Because you have to go back to like when this. started. Like, so when are the times in your life and you did a good job today? Like, when were you not listened to? Right. And I'll ask you questions. Like, when else was your dad mean to you? I would imagine that the belt was used a couple of times. You're like, no, it actually wasn't. Surprising, but fine. Right? Sometimes the belt is a one-time thing. And then you laughed and you're like,

oh, by the way. And so your mind is linking that to your dad being mean. even though you say it while you're laughing and he laughs about it and you even sort of demonstrate that he cared about you after that and was nicer to you. So even though that story has a positive spin, you gave me that answer when I asked about your dad being mean. So there's some part of your mind that equates your dad being mean there. And the more that I push you on that, you're like, yeah, you're making me feel like an asshole and you're making me my dad look like an asshole.

And then you feel protective and defensive, which is fine. But my point is the story isn't funny. right? Like jokes are funny. Like Dr. K's a boomer. Ha, ha, ha. That's funny. Right? Like memes, like I also Google myself. But the reason I Google myself is because people make fun of me and they just do a really good job and I think it's actually hilarious. People are very creative. Yeah, I think they're really talented. It's a lot of fun. That shit's funny. Getting hit in the face with a baseball by your dad who's pissed at you for being a pussy. That's not funny. And so somewhere along the way, like, you become disconnected from your internal environment.

That, too, you've got to, like, reconnect with. Like, you've got to, you know, get in touch with your feelings, bro. You know, because there's a lot there. And then, like, last thing is, like, you should think about seeing a therapist if you aren't already. Yeah, I've, I've been, I'm actually been connected with one that I'm going to start. Good. Yeah.

And you're sure. I told, well, that my girlfriend told me to do also something that I definitely should do. And so I, like, work on this stuff, right? Like, start to talk about those things and start to talk about how you feel because the end of the day, I don't think you have to live a life

where you feel burnt out. And the last thing, which we don't have kind of too much time to talk about is I think your brain has a lot of signs of dopamine exhaustion, which is like when you sort of get hit with dopamine time and time and time again through extensive years of gaming

and stuff like that, stuff can feel blasé monotone or less fun. And then I think that like doing something like a dopamine fast may be a good idea or like a dopamine cleanse where you kind of like you can really recalibrate your brain.

And then the last thing that you can do is and I've talked about that before on stream like it's on YouTube and stuff and I'll give people more details about that. But the last thing that you can do is meditate. And if you want to learn some meditation, I can teach you today. Okay. You have any experience with meditation? I've been told to try it before and I feel like I've pretended to do it, but I'd never really, you know. You feel like giving the shot today or maybe pretending or you want to bow out?

I mean, I'll try whatever that can't hurt, right? Actually, there are cases of reports of meditation-induced psychosis. Oh. But I don't think that's going to happen with you. I hope not. Yeah. I don't think so. But, yeah, so let's, let me just think.

I want to teach you a technique that I think is going to be a little bit hard to learn because it feels super awkward, but I feel like it's the right technique for you. Is it okay if I, you try that? Yeah. I'm going to teach you something called bellows breath. Okay? So if you need to blow your nose, you can start by blowing your nose. I can't.

So I want you to sit up straight and I'm going to demonstrate once, okay? So what I'm going to do is take 30 breaths. I'm going to do 30 strong exhalations where I push the air out. And then I'm going to kind of have like a super quick and shallow inhalation. And then I'm going to push it out again, push it out again, push it out. out again. So I'm going to like basically forcefully exhale 30 times. So I'll just demonstrate. And then let me know if you understand it. It's going to feel weird, but I'll just start. Okay. That makes sense?

Forcefully exhaling 30 times. Yeah. We're not going to, without inhaling. No, you have to inhale, right? Because you can't exhale without inhaling. Yeah. But the emphasis is going to be on the exhale. So what I'm going to ask you to do is let's try five breaths where you kind of, boom boom boom boom boom boom that's what I want you to do so close your eyes forcefully exhale good right so now we're going to do it again that's perfect even it'll out a little bit right so you went boom boom boom boom so do try to make it even five more in that order or just just making it even just make it even

okay okay good so you're noticing that the breath is going to go a little bit more shallow as you go towards the end. So now I want you to space them out just a little bit. Don't go quite as fast. Five more, a little bit slower. Okay. Good. Any history of asthma?

No. Okay. So now we're going to do 15. Okay? And then just focus on one, two, and go at that pace that you just went. Okay. Okay. I might have lost count. That's okay. Don't worry about it. Losing count's perfectly fine.

So how do you feel right now? Do you feel silly or anything? No, I just feel fine. Okay. So now what I'm going to tell you to do, now we're going to really learn the practice, okay? So now I want you to go for 20 breaths. And if you lose count, actually, you just, you just breathe. I'm just going to let you know it's going to be about 20 breaths and I'll tell you when to stop. and what the real practice is is after the 20 breaths you're going to enter a space in your mind

that I want you to just sit in and notice that last breath after you're done with the practice you're naturally going to take a breath and just be completely in that breath as much as possible okay that's okay are you giving me the cue or

I'm going to give you the cue I'm going to tell you when to stop and I want you to leave your eyes closed I'm going to tell you when to open your eyes again and just sit in the space after the practice and whatever comes up, let it come up. Try not to engage with your thought. So if you have a thought, that's fine,

but then just like let it go and just focus on the way that you feel. Okay? Okay. It sounds kind of weird until you do it. All right, so close your eyes. Deep breath in and begin. Good.

And now we're going to begin again. 20 more. I'll keep count and I'll count down from 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 to signal the end and keep your eyes closed and sit with that last breath. Let's begin again. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and sit. One last time, 20 breaths. I'll count down from 5. Go ahead and start.

5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Now I want you to take a deep breath in for three seconds and out for three, in for five and out for five. And now in for seven and out for seven. Slow, slow, slow. You're ready, open your eyes. Come on back to us, tires. What do you feel?

I feel like I took a nap and woke up. Why did you feel like you were asleep? What is that? It kind of felt similar to the tingling sensation of dreaming. Why do we describe meditation like sleep? Right? It's kind of weird. What was your mind doing during that practice?

Trying not to think about anything. Were you trying to not think about anything? Or were you not thinking about anything? I think that I was just imagining like a background. And that was a... What do you mean by imagining a background? Space. Hmm.

Similar to like a view of a sunset. Just imagining backgrounds and thinking of nothing else. Okay. Yeah. So I think, you know, it's interesting because people often say, like what you said, they use sleep or dreaming to kind of describe it. It's because our conscious mind, which we operate with most of the time, being on actually turns off for a little while.

And that's why we call it sleep. You weren't asleep, but it feels like you took a nap, right? So there's some amount of rejuvenation. But the most important thing is that it sounds like you stepped outside of your mind for at least a little while for moments here or there. And in my experience of this practice, that first breath after the 20 exhalations is like very, very soothing, calming and kind of like outside of mind. I kind of get enveloped or wrapped up in that breath.

Does that make any sense? Or your experience could have been different. Everyone sort of experiences it different. I think it was the breath after you told me to stop is the one where I felt the most. Because I think the last couple of breaths were it was like three seconds, five seconds, seven seconds. I'm thinking about breathing in that amount of time rather than just doing it naturally. Yeah. because as I direct your mind, it turns on.

And then when it becomes natural, it can turn off. And so I don't know that this is the right technique for you, but I think that other kinds of techniques could be very difficult because I think your mind is going to need lots of stimulation and is also going to need to be quite exhausted to be calm. So I think if I were to sit there and ask you to observe your thoughts, maybe that's going to be difficult for you. So Kapal Bhati or Bello's breath is good because it's like something that's kind of active.

Does that make sense? You have this period of intense activity which then exhausts you and lets you enter that state. Whereas if I tell you to go straight to that state, your mind is going to wander. Right. The last thing. Huh? Yeah. Unless I'm, unless I'm tired.

You'd be surprised. Even if you're physically tired or mentally tired, sometimes the mind wanders more at those times. But you can try it when you're tired. Okay. So kind of focused exhaustion or expending the energy of the mind or emptying your gas tank so that you can sit in that emptiness is sometimes what works for people like you. So give it a shot. You can practice it. I'd say three to five minutes starting three to five days a week.

If you want to be a try hard League of Legends Pro, then you can grind it out five minutes a day for seven days a week. I'll do it casually because I think that it's like one of those things where I guess so there's people that are caffeine addicts I only drink one cup of coffee at most a day because I feel like I get the most out of it. Sure. Sure. Or people that are drinking alcohol, they drink a lot. They gain tolerance, but the less tolerance you have, the cheaper it is to get drunk. Sure. You know, I don't really think meditation works like that. And in fact, yeah, I just...

But fair enough. I mean, I think the one thing that I really like is that it sounds like you're going to make your own exploration for it, which I think is exactly how you should do it. Okay. Any questions for me before we kind of wrap up for the day? Any last thoughts? No, I just want to thank you for having me. It's been a very big eye-opener. and I didn't feel like I could feel this way. Feel what way?

Like, just my point of view changed. Instead of looking at what's on the outside, it really is more on the inside. I've been looking for answers in the wrong places. Yeah, and I think that's why, so beautifully put Dirus, because I think the basic reason that we don't move forward

is because, It's not because we suck, right? Like, and this is the really sad thing is that when we look for answers in the wrong places and we don't find them and we don't get better, we start to think less about ourselves, right? We start to think of ourselves as incompetent and lazy. And, you know, like, but it's not, it's not that you're lazy. It's just that you haven't been taught, right? You don't know where to look.

And, like, it's not your fault that you're looking in the wrong place. And it's not that you suck or anything like that. that. It's just, you know, if I, if I go fishing in a bathtub, I'm never going to catch any fish. But like, that's how we live our life is we go fishing in bathtubs every day and then we think that we're incompetent fishermen. It's like, it's just not how it works, man. I mean, yeah, I can think of all kinds of scenarios where you can catch a lot of stuff out of your bathtub, but anyway. Yeah. But listen, man, I'm glad that this has been helpful for you. I'm sorry I couldn't guide you a little bit more. I mean, I think it is a big step to recognize that it's on the

inside. And I really hope I'm happy to help you, you know, down the road or I really hope you can find someone to help you in that internal exploration. And the crazy thing, diar, says, I'm not even so sure that you're going to need that much help. Because the last thing that I'd share with you is, I think you and I think a surprising number of people on Twitchette. I mean, I think we're all actually very intelligent and very capable. I think the idea that we even need someone's help comes from the fact that we've been fishing in a bathtub our entire life and not catching any fish. And all we need to do is point you in the right direction and your natural intelligence, your natural tendency to like learn and grow and reflect and analyze and to put your minds to

something and accomplish it. All of those strengths are going to support you in this way. They were just pointed in the wrong direction. And I think it's good that you're seeing a therapist because I think that'll facilitate things. Yeah, I think like all of this is stuff. I've been thinking about for, I guess, the last three to four years, but it's like, oh, maybe it's this or that, but by you doing this, this really solidifies the fact that, yeah, I really

shouldn't be fishing in a bathtub. I really, I really shouldn't be. It's, it really ties a bow on it, like you said. Well, I'm, I'm happy to hear that because I was afraid. But yeah, man, so listen, I wish you all the best of luck and, you know, keep us posted. And if I can help you in some other way, let me know. And, you know, if the meditation doesn't work out for you or something like that and you want a different technique, just shoot me a DM or whatever. And good luck, man.

We're rooting for you. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it a lot. All right. Take care, man. Bye. Have a good one.

Peace. All right. Dyrus Pog. Dyrus is great, man. Oh, man. I really hope things work out for him. Dyrs pod. Do I need to tell you guys that y'all should meditate along when I teach other people meditation,

or is that kind of like, do you all, is that understood at this point? Okay, good. Understood. I don't. Okay. So, like, yeah, I mean, so in the future, you know, I just realized I didn't tell you guys to go along with it. But y'all should, y'all should do it, too. I'll try to remember to say it.

Okay. So let's think a little bit about, let's kind of try to recap. So I think the key takeaways from listening to Dyrus, I think, is stuff that, you know, hopefully you all caught as I was explaining it to him. So I think we have to be really careful about how we solve problems. And we have to be careful about, you know, the answers that we come up with if they don't really fit. And we should be scientific. Because, you know, if you think that I think burnout is a great example and like we ask about burnout and he says okay it was because I was like a pro game or fine and then it was a streamer fine and then I took three months off and it helped a little bit and it's like wait what you know it it's kind of like if I say like yeah why are you why is your hair wet and it's like

yeah because I'm in the shower and then someone else is like okay well why is your hair wet and it's like it's because I'm in the bathtub and then even when I go outside and it's a sunny day like I get rained on or something. The analogy fell apart in my mind. But my point is that, like, you know, you should be critical about the notions that you have about where your problems come from. And oftentimes we're thinking about that.

And he absolutely meant. Just that, you know, that's one hell of an aborted fetus of an analogy. Let me tell you what. I just didn't. Thanks for the donation, Dyrus. in Skull Kid. So, yeah, sometimes thoughts come out stillborn.

And I don't know how else to put it. It's just sometimes Dr. Kay has brilliant realizations. And sometimes he has just really frankenstoney and little homunculus thought children. And that's what we're here for, right? It's for the lulls. Oh, shit, man. Lies H says, Dr. K, I wanted to donate to honor the memory of my friend who took his life four years ago yesterday. I can't see the rest of it, but your work is incredible and I hope,

well, dude, I'm sorry that your friend took his life four years ago. Can I just talk about that for a second? I'm going to say something that I've been thinking a lot about suicide recently. I have a patient who killed themselves about a year ago, and I have another patient who I'm afraid is going to kill themselves in the next year or two. And it's kind of rough, right? Like when we think about suicide and we think about, it's rough when people take their own life. And, you know, the crazy part of me is like there's a part of me, and especially as I think

about the people that I work with it. And we have this assumption that suicide is wrong. And I don't think you guys should kill yourselves. But I also feel like the more that I understand people who struggle, it makes sense to me right if we if we're being really honest about it like some people suffer and the person that i'm worried about now has been suffering for years and they have tried so so hard um to get better and they're they're trying and like every day for them is a struggle and it's not like every day is a struggle like every day is a struggle it's like every day is just torturous it's like

they wake up every day and they're like in like they just it's like another day of torture and you know there are bright spots here and there they have some physical illness too which you know really doesn't help they have bright spots here and there and we're trying to figure out you know how to help this person and it's not really working like nothing's really working and and and we have to acknowledge that that feeling is real right like I think sometimes it's a little bit ignorant for us to assume that, I mean, I think it's just uncompassionate to say to everyone, yeah, you should absolutely live. I think you should absolutely live, but I think you should be honest with yourself because I do think that there's hope. But I think that it's also important

to acknowledge that like some people really do suffer. And when I've worked with people who are suicidal, the crazy thing is like it's not, you know, it's a game that they've been trying to play for years and years and years and then eventually they just don't want to play it anymore. And that's not phrased, right? Like, I think this is one of the craziest things about suicide is we think about these people as mentally ill, which sometimes they are. But we kind of say, like when we say that that's crazy, you're kind of invalidating, like what they feel and what they think. And one of the things that I've learned as a psychiatrist is that being suicidal is not crazy. and the really bizarre thing is that the more that I think about suicidal people is not crazy, but completely sane, that's when you can help them.

And that's where hope actually comes from. It's really bizarre. It's not that hope comes from, like, hope doesn't come from ignoring your situation and pretending that something else's can exist. That's fantasy. hope comes from starting where you are fantasy is all about your mind where you want to end up right i can look at the top of mount everest and i can fantasize about when i reach the top but it's not about where i am it's where about i imagine i can go and when you tell a suicidal person to that everything's going to be okay you know that's that doesn't feel real to them and what i really think that if you guys are struggling with suicidality, you should absolutely see a professional and get help with that because it's not fair for you to have to deal with that alone. And I do think you can get to the top of Mount Everest. But I think getting to the top of Mount Everest and being free from your suicidality and like being

free from depression and loving and enjoying life starts with an acknowledgement that like you are filled with despair and you don't know where to go from here. And that's tough. But I know it sounds absolutely crazy, but like, I mean, come on. Like, if you want to be a good psychiatrist, you have to meet your patients where they're at, right? You can't just pretend that their reality doesn't exist. You have to say, hey, man, like, I get that you're suffering and I really do see it. Like, honestly, it's not crazy to me that you're thinking about killing yourself because I've been working with you for two years now, and we've been trying so hard. And I feel despair, but I'm your fucking treater. Like, you're the one who's actually living it every day. And I get that your

despair is absolutely real and I don't know that even I have hope for you. But you know what? I want to keep trying and I want you to keep trying because I don't want you to give up, but I don't blame you if you do. Because I do think that we're getting somewhere. Like we're making a little bit of progress and we have these high points. And if you can have one good day in two years, then you can have two good days in the next two years. But let's be honest, like if that's the way you feel, that's the way that you feel. And if we want to fix something that's broken, let's start out by admitting how fucking broken it is. Right? That you need a new engine and you need new tires and you need new axles and you need new seatbelts and you need a new steering wheel. Like,

fine. Like I get that that feels impossible to you. But if you are willing to give me a chance, I'm going to keep trying and I need your help to keep trying. That's how I feel. Is that it's not, it's not crazy, right? Like, to call a suicidal person crazy is just not helpful. These people aren't crazy. They're suffering. This is their reality. And this is what we need to understand.

Like, I think this is one of the biggest problems that has happened with our generation is we call people, like, especially men who kill themselves, we say it's a mental health problem. It's depression. And that's like such a fucking cop-out answer. Right? Like, if someone is in so much despair that, they don't see a way forward and they feel burdened with like responsibility and,

you know, they feel like they can't do anything in life. Like there's no way forward and they've been trying for so long. And they just, they just can't, they have no answers. And they've been trying it for five years, six years, ten years, twelve years. And then they killed themselves. And they're like, oh, yeah, that was illness. No, it's not illness. like that person just needed a little bit of help, needed a little bit of a bright point,

needed a little bit more support, and we didn't give it to them. It's not illness. It's like, oh, yeah, it's a neurochemical imbalance in your brain. Not my fucking fault. It's really dangerous what we've done to men, especially because they commit suicide more than women. And I see this a lot with men, is that we said, oh, that's a neurochemical imbalance. Like, it's not your fault, man. It's a neurochemical imbalance.

But you know what? it's not my fault either because it's a neurochemical imbalance. Oh, yeah. It's a neurochemical imbalance. It's no one's fault. It's just, you know, it's like no one's fault. And so when when no one's at fault, no one needs to take responsibility. And that's where I think we've fucked up basically is a society with this whole generation.

We've let all you guys down. Because what we've done is we've labeled you with illness. We said, oh, yeah, you're depressed. It's a fucking neurochemical imbalance. Boomers are like, go see a psychiatrist and get an SSRI. Not my fucking problem. It's the biggest cop-out.

And I mean, don't get me wrong. Like, I'm a fucking psychiatrist and I believe in mental illness. I'm not saying mental illness isn't real. I'm not like I prescribe medications. So I think you guys should all definitely go see psychiatrists and therapists and help with those things because we know those tools can help. My point is that that's not the answer. It's part of the answer.

and that there's a whole other part of it. There's a whole other part about meaning and caring. And like, we just look at Dyrus. Dyrus isn't burnt out because his coach made him play too much e-sports. He's not burnt out because of you guys. He's burnt out because no one listened when they needed to. He's burnt out because he's a fucking, he's been a fucking top-laner his whole life. Like, he says his parents are divorced.

What I want to know is, like, where was his... mom when his dad threw a baseball into his face. Right? Like, what happened? Like, why didn't someone stick up for him? When the teachers put him in anger management, like, just think about that for a second, right? Kids come up to you and bully you, and then you fight back. And then they stick your ass in anger management. Where the fuck is his lawyer? Abandonment. It's not fair. And it's not right. And then the kid gets labeled with anger management problems. It's an illness. It's a neurochemical imbalance in your brain.

You have anger management problems. You're just broken in here, man. It's not your fault, but you're just fucking broken. And the normal kids are over here. So learn how to manage your feelings. We're going to teach you some useful skills. Fine. There's some useful skills.

I'm not saying anger management is bad. But I'm saying that we're doing something very, very dangerous by protocolizing and pathologizing a lot of normal experience. We're absolving ourselves of responsibility. Right? I still remember, I talked about this with Anita, that, you know, it's kind of bizarre, but I was working with a guy who's in jail. And the reason he was in jail is because he started selling drugs at the age of 16, because his three older sisters said that what a man does is provide. And you have to provide for your older sisters, otherwise you're not a man. So how the fuck does a 16-year-old provide for three adult women?

he's drugs. And then he gets suicidal. And then I come in. And I talk to him. And like I talked to him for a while and I realized, man, this guy is so fucked. A pill is not going to fix this. This is not a neurochemical balance? Absolutely.

Will a medication help him? But is it going to fix it? No. This guy needs to understand that like, you know, he was not taught that adult, like 16 year old boys should not be financially responsible for three adults. And you think about this, you go back to Anita and you just think about what she was taught. She loves her mother,

and her mother sounds like she had very serious challenges, and we're not going to blame her for that. And at the same time, what was Anita taught? What were we taught? Why are kids mean? Because they're taught to be mean. What were you guys taught? How were you taught?

Every fucking time you go fishing in the bathtub, you're taught, and then like, society looks at you, your parents like, why haven't you graduated yet? Like, why did you fell out of college? Like, why don't you have a job? Why haven't you moved out? Fucking boomers are like these kids nowadays, like, they're not buying rings and they're not buying houses and they don't know how to work. Like, what, what the fuck, man? Why do you think that is? Where do you think we learned how to be lazy? Oh yeah, we learned it from the boomer generation because they had everything handed to them. Bizarre. You think maybe, maybe, and

instead of us being an entire generation. It's an entire generation, right? You think, like, maybe an entire generation just learn the same fucking lesson, which is completely the opposite of what the generation before us learned? It's just like we went 180? No. Generations, kids learn what their parents teach them. Oh, it's not like we all grow up in America speaking English.

An entire generation grows up speaking Swahili. That's not how it works. We speak English because you fucking guys speak English. we were taught our values because you guys taught it to us. And the world is a different place. And that formula doesn't work anymore. But no. Oh, it's mental illness. Oh, mental illness. Yeah, just absolve yourselves of all responsibility.

Fucking mental illness. So yeah, I mean, once again, don't get me wrong. Mental illness is real. I think we should treat it seriously. I think if you guys are feeling suicidal, you should get help. But also cut yourself a break because you're not broken in here. The reason that you feel that way is completely legitimate. And if you've been struggling for a while, those struggles are real.

And if you feel like you're in despair, that's not your fault. It's our fault. Because life is a multiplayer game, boys and girls. It's a multiplayer game. Twitch is a multiplayer platform. It's all fucking multiplayer. So how can you blame yourself? Like, sure, should you do more? Absolutely. But it's a fucking multiplayer game. So get the help that you need. And more importantly, help out the person that needs it. Right?

Ask the question that people aren't willing to ask. If you ask someone, how are you doing today? Like, actually look them in the eye and be like, how are you actually doing today? Let that question mean something. And AOE healing is not about like me, you know, spraying AOE on all of you guys. I mean, it is.

but like what aOE healing is really about I think if you really look at it deeply, it's about like you guys becoming healers too. I mean, all you have to do become a healer is like fix yourself. And then it'll come natural. Like just fix yourselves. I mean, just fix yourselves. I'm just fix yourself.

Millennial? Fucking boomers? Fix yourself. Just, you know. I'm saying like all you have to do is fix yourself. Focus on yourself. Let you be your karma. Let you be your focus.

you can come first. Stop fucking putting other people first. Right? I'm talking to Anita. You can come first sometimes. Like sometimes. Like 10% of the time you can come first. You can come first.

And you should come first, right? Because like, you're a fucking entitled millennial Gen Z TikTok YouTube Twitch person. You're your special snowflake. Like, it's so weird. Like, we, we, we, I mean, I'm all for special snowflakes and that people can be narcissistic, but at the same time, let's just think about this for a second. We're essentially like telling a generation of people

that they should grow the fuck up. No, like take yourself seriously, like accept responsibility for what you do right and accept responsibility for what you do wrong and don't take responsibility for what other people do wrong. Just because someone calls you a special snowflake doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong. Like should you be narcissistic? Absolutely not. Should you focus on yourself? Absolutely. Should you give yourself the credit that you're worth? Absolutely. Anyway. All right. So, thank you guys very much. And yeah, so May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and we're doing a big push. I saw low DPM gave us a bunch of gifted subs, man. Low DPM has been supporting our stream

since its inception in October. And a huge thank you to. you know, man or woman or anything in between that you are. We really appreciate the support. So here's the thing. We're training coaches because we want to spread this message. For each and every one of you who's out there, if you need to talk to someone like me, we're going to try to train someone, right? So they're not like level 60 healers. They're like level 20, 30, 40 healers, depending on which one. They're pretty good. They can, they can raid with you guys, you know, because you guys aren't level ready for, for levels endgame content anyway. Y'all are level five and 10 and 20. So, so this is what our

coaching program is about and that's why we're raising money. It's fucking insane that in seven days we've raised $10,000. I didn't know if we were going to even raise like I didn't know, I mean, we've never made this much money on stream before, like nowhere close to this. And it's, it's amazing. It's amazing. And we want to fix this, right? So like some time ago, Dr. Case showed up on Twitch and he started streaming. And then people reached out for help and they were like, and then I felt bad because I had to turn, not just turn people away. I couldn't even answer my fucking emails. And so I was talking to a friend of mine and, and she was like, yeah, like there's really, she said, oh, like either you duplicate yourself or there's nothing you can do.

And she meant like you can't duplicate yourself because that's physically impossible. And so you shouldn't feel bad about it because you're just one person. She's trying to be supportive. And then I was like, you know what? You're right. Either I duplicate myself or there's a nothing I can do, in which case everyone gets let down. The world continues. People continue to be suicidal and despaired and meaningless. And then nothing I can do. I did the best that I could. I did a good job. I help people every day for 40 hours a week, 50 hours a week, 60 hours a week. That's enough. And it should be, right? I should be content with that. But I'm not. I'm not. because I mean when I was failing out of college and all that shit and you know full of despair

and I realized I was probably sort of an in-cell like it wasn't a thing back then but I was a nerd that's what we called it and then nerds became cool and Game of Throne became mainstream and gaming became mainstream and then the thing that I was is become an in-cell which is an interesting and you know anthropological kind of analysis but and so like you know because there are people out there like me like you guys are like me like We're the same. That's why this works. Right? This works because, like, I am you and you or me.

And that's why I have hope. Because we're no different. And so I was like, you know what? You're right. I'm going to duplicate myself. And people are like, oh, that's insane. Like, you're so brilliant. And it's like, no, guys, I don't think you guys understand. I'm actually not that brilliant.

And you guys, if I'm you, you or me, that means we can duplicate this. We can clone this shit, right? it's no longer like an MMO, it's an RTS. And we're going to build a couple of like barracks and we're going to start churning out priests because I'm not a hero. I'm just a regular unit. Like we're going to take an RTS strategy. It's not like a single player game. It's not like Zelda where you're link running around and you're like one of a kind.

It's like fucking Warcraft 3 and we're just going to churn out, you know, infantry. And we're going to do it because I think that's good enough because I think y'all are amazing. And I have faith in y'all. It's crazy. I know. Oh, my God. Twitch chat is so toxic. Oh, my God.

Like people gamers are so toxic. Me. School shooters. This. That, me. No. I don't buy it. Zug,

Zug. Absolutely. Zug. Zug. that y'all are willing to help. And so we're going to try to make things as affordable as possible. And we're going to try to make things as fast as possible and as good as possible. And so we're doing a bunch of Harvard's Andy stuff behind the scenes in terms of study design and research and outcome measures and quality assurance and all that kind of shit.

Because at the end of the day, like, how do you determine whether a coach can actually help someone? Like, how do you measure that? How do you measure whether someone can actually be helped? So a lot of this is going to fund, you know, kind of like our quality metrics and research design and stuff like that. We've had, I've asked for a couple of people's help. And thankfully, I just tweeted it out. And a couple people from our community have volunteered to help us. And that's been actually fantastic.

And at some point, we may get like NIH grants and shit like that. But yeah, so that's what we're doing. And I'm just grateful for your help because here's the thing. I can't do it, right? Like, because this is the thing. You guys got to remember. If I'm peon, then I can't. save you. So what I need is a bunch of other fucking peons. And we can do it together. Like when you,

if you guys have played war three, if you guys have played an RTS, right? You got, oh, let's talk about Starcraft too. It's like if you've got like one SCV, like one SCV can't do shit. We need a bunch of SCVs. And if we've got a bunch of SCVs, then we can do a lot of stuff. And that's what Healthy Gamer is about. Is that if I'm an SCV, you're an SCV and you can do it too. that's what we're about. And so thank you for your help. Everyone who's been, I saw someone else gifted a bunch of subs.

So thank you for all of the monies. And yeah. So let's figure out. Okay, so this Friday, we have Pokemon. And I'm still confused about, so we're going to do drunk, I guess drinking AMA with Dr. K. So I'm just going to stream for a while

and we're going to shoot the shit. You guys can post quite, on Reddit. And yeah, so here's the link for the Reddit. If you guys have, so a couple of kind of outgoing things, okay? So if you guys want, you can post your questions there and we're just going to upvote, downvote, right? So that you guys can, you know, we'll see when we'll answer those questions.

And then there's going to be drinking involved because we hit that stretch goal because stupid us. We, you know, I was like, oh, yeah, like, we can do like drinking M.A. Like, no one's going to, we're not going to raise $4,000, some shit like that. And I think we've also hit the benchmark for learning to play League of Legends. And then we're going to talk to Pokemon, and I'm still confused about, you know, I think it depends on what she wants to do about whether I'm inebriated or not. Because I feel like that's kind of a dick thing to do, right, to be drinking while I'm talking to someone.

I feel like it's not fair to them. But anyway, whatever she wants to do. And thank you very much to her for offering to come on. support us. And yeah, so, yeah, so that's going to be Friday and we're excited. And I think hopefully we've got some more stuff coming up. So Friday will be a long stream. It'll be a little bit more chill. We may hop on Discord for a while and talk, although I've been burned by that Twitter chat for those of you who have seen the thing that was, we're there for what has been scrubbed from the internet when like 7,000 people swarm into Discord. And then someone realizes that

they can be a troll. And, and I mean, I don't, I can't really blame you for that because I was laughing on the inside, but please don't do it again. Can we be clear about that? Like, don't do that again. And also, I can appreciate you for who you are, man. I don't, I blame you for it, but I also forgive you for it. And please don't do it again. Um, yeah, that's life. So thank you guys very much. I'm going to go ahead and sign off today because I've got an appointment in about 20 minutes. and love you guys. You know, we've got a lot of good stuff coming. I'm going to take next week.

I'm going to stream and stuff, but I'm not having any of my clinical appointments and stuff, and I'm going to focus on building stuff for y'all because people have asked me for things. So I'm going to just take a week off where I'm going to, like, write and work on my books and maybe make webinars and all that kind of stuff. We've got webinars and stuff planned. The other thing is that you guys can hop on our Discord. If you guys want a goal added to this, you guys should,

let me know what that is. So you guys can post suggestions and if we're cool with it, you know, we'll do it. Um, we can add those kinds of stretch goals. And I think we hit our 9,000, which is a stream on lying, which will probably be like a bonus stream. Well, I'll talk to you guys about why people lie, why we lie, why we lie to ourselves, how to detect lying and someone else. I get, it's not like a machine that doesn't work like that, but to understand what goes on in someone's mind when they lie and why they lie. And so that for you to be able to, you know, see, if you can see that going on in their mind, then you can sort of to deduce that they could be lying or maybe lying or probably are lying.

So we'll talk about that. So other thoughts, you know, stuff that's a little bit off script is like I was thinking about doing something about sociopathy because a lot of people ask about that or other topics that you guys want me to just kind of talk about. We can do that. So thank you guys very much. And best of luck and stay safe. And if you guys are really struggling with something like suicidality, please get help

because you fucking deserve it. And give us time. That's the other thing. So what I ask my patience for is time. So if you want to kill yourself, I'm not going to disagree that that seems like a good idea to you, but give me time. Let me try to help you.

And give yourselves time. Give yourself time to heal. Give yourself time. Give yourself like time for someone to walk into the bathroom and say, hey man, there's no fish in the bathtub. Maybe you should come out to the lake. And give yourself time. for like things to change and cut yourself some slack.

And it's not that it's not that you aren't successful. It's not that your feelings aren't real. It's just that like that's not you being a failure. That's us letting you down. So give us a chance to help you. And sign up for some kind of mental health treatment and give yourself a chance to get better. And so suicide sucks. So take care, guys.

I'll see you guys on Friday. And, okay, so Friday's going to be more festive. How about that? I feel like this is kind of a downer, but, you know, these feelings are real and that's okay. So let's do less downers. So thank you, ZS. Cow. Same time. So we're going to start at noon central, and then we'll run until I pass out or my kids can't take it anymore.

And I saw that other people have been gifting subs. So we'll, I'm going to do special shoutouts to people at the beginning of stream. And oh, shit, I was about to, okay. Who to raid? Okay, drinking AMA after the Pokemon stream. Okay, great. Raid. Who raid? No, no, no, no, we're going to raid. We're going to raid.