HealthyGamerGG - Dealing with Unrequited Feelings

Episode Date: April 16, 2020

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There's no way that's true, right? That's what your response is. You're like, sure, logically, it could be true, but you weren't there and you really don't know. It's impossible. Is that how you feel? It's impossible. It's impossible that she could like you. So what's your name, buddy?

My name is Hayden. Hayden, okay. Yeah. And so tell me, Hayden, what are we talking about today? I'm pretty sure we're talking about me being an insult. Okay. So why don't we start with this? What does that mean?

It means it just means that I'm a sad cunt. Okay. What is, in what ways are you a sad cunt? Sorry for the story. My lad to swear? Sure. I don't actually, I mean, I think you can say fuck. I don't think you should say things that are offensive. So maybe maybe say a clear. Sorry. Yeah. That's just my culture. Sorry. Yeah, that's okay. It's good that you noticed. Yeah. I'm just a little bit like misogynist and kind of go like a negative view on women, I guess. Okay. Just from a. That's strange. Yeah. Most misogynists describe themselves as misogynists?

I don't know. I don't usually hear that. Usually people get called misogynists, right? Oh, yeah. I've been called a misogynist, but... Okay, so what is that? So... I don't think I'm fully misogynist.

I would just, like... What... So what is it... When you say you're a misogynist, what does that mean? It just means Just negative view on women What does that mean in negative view on women Can you help me understand that?

I don't know Like just Bad things to relate to them Okay So let me It seems like it's a little bit tricky for you to answer questions Is that, are you feeling that way? Yeah

Yeah Yeah So let's just try to understand that first Are you feeling nervous Yeah, yeah Like on a scale of 1 to 10 How nervous are you right now? Probably like 7 or 8

Okay And what is it that's making you nervous, do you think? Just The fact that I've watched you a lot And I watch all the streamers that you interview So like it's kind of like surreal Okay Being here

Okay So just just Do you think some of your nervous has to do with what we're talking about or is it just being on stream in general? Yeah, and that. But, um, I don't know. I just don't really like, I don't think I'm the biggest in-sell you could have got. What the fuck, man?

Like, what's, what's up with all these, like, people coming on that are not gigantic ins. I don't think there's such thing as, like. What would the biggest in-cell look like? Let's start there. Just really. hates everything I mean I hate everything

but like really hates he would look ugly you know and he would and are you ugly? I think I'm alright okay

I would agree I don't think I'm I don't think I look amazing but you know I'm right you and be both brother thanks Okay. So what else is different between you and so that the the ultimate in-cell, the final boss of the insoles, the clan leader of the insoles, would be uglier than you are. What else would be different about him? He'd be a man, male? Yeah. Okay. Can you be a female in-cell? Yes.

Okay. So that's kind of confusing because, you know, I asked you like, what's an in-cell? And then you kind of started talking about misogyny. So what's an insol? Like, just explain it to us. Like, help us understand. You got to understand, I'm a boomer, right? So, like, back in my day, I mean, I was probably an in-en-sell, but they didn't exist. So help you understand. I mean, I think it's more common today because the internet, like, you know, I don't really social a lot. So, like, this is just the fact that I just stay inside the majority of the time.

Okay. And what does that have to do with you being an in-cell? Because I have an opportunity to be in a relationship or date women. You don't have an opportunity. Well, less of an opportunity, but... Okay. Like, yeah. But also with like the culture today, I think makes for more incels as well.

Max, there are a lot of incels right now. Do you say maximal in cells as well? No, I said a, wait what? I said a lot of in-cells. Okay. So let's start with this. What does the term in-cells stand for? Involuntary celibate, I'm pretty sure.

And help me understand what that means. Not your choice to be single. Okay, so whose choice is it that you're single? It's a woman's fault. I don't know. Okay. So let's talk about that. how is it the woman's women or a woman let's start there women i mean i don't i don't necessarily agree

with that i think it can be it can be but also like it's are you afraid of how you're going to be perceived hayden a little bit but not really really because i'm getting a lot of hesitation from you and i'm trying to figure out if that hesitation is like general anxiety i'm just not uh no i'm just like not clear in my thoughts okay like i've been thinking about it coming up to the interview but like i've had conversations in my head with you but it's never like clear cut like this is what i think and this is my opinion it's always like murky and like yeah this and this so so let's start there hayden is this a place where we want people to have clear cut thoughts and opinions

no is that what people come here for uh no no i don't I don't think so. Yeah. So what do people come here for? To help understand the way you think about things. Okay. And so, like, if I take two people, so let's say that our audience is interested in understanding the way that they think. And I give them two options.

One is someone who has done a lot of thinking and is very clear in their thinking. And the other one doesn't understand what the fuck they think. And their thinking is very murky. Which one do you think our audience? which one do you think helps our audience more? Like, clearly and straight, like, to the point, person. How? Because you can easily help him understand where he's going wrong.

Well, I think you can more than the guy that doesn't know. So I actually disagree. So the first thing is you have a presumption that the clear-headed person is going somewhere wrong, which I don't accept that. Like, I don't think that it's not my job to tell people where they're thinking is flawed, right? Because I actually... I mean, I just, for this situation, like, I think being an insult and being misogynist is wrong. Why?

But I... Well, I just think it's wrong. It's stupid, but... Why? Also, it's... Because, um, I don't know. Yeah. So, like, Hayden, I ask you, like, can we be a little bit critical of our... ourselves.

Yeah. And so the first place that we need to be critical of is placing a value judgment on whether being an in-cell is a good thing or a bad thing or whether being a misogynist is a good thing or a bad thing. Yep. Right? So like, I don't know if you've caught some of these streams, but a big thing that I've come to appreciate is that our mind does things that are adaptive.

Like anxiety is a protective mechanism. Right. Ego is a protective mechanism. And so I don't know if that applies to being an in-cell or a misogynist, but I'd be curious about that. And I think if you want to change, which we haven't explicitly talked about, but there's, you know, I kind of had this assumption that you don't want to be an insol anymore. Is that true? Kind of, yeah. I mean, yeah, I'd rather have a positive view, rather than having a view.

What's negative about the view of an in-cell? Um, just hard to, um, uh, I think there is negative things. Uh, like just thinking, uh, just judging a person of, uh, the gender is pretty negative. But are your judgments accurate? I mean, off the data that I got, it's accurate, but like if you, if you, I don't think everybody's like that. You know what I mean? Do you think most in cells feel the way they? you feel? Yep. That they, and what about, what about that? Like, do they think that, do you think that they don't like being misogynists? I've, I'm noty. Okay. It's a good answer. So, hmm. So let me, I want to share like maybe one or two thoughts and then maybe I can, we can

ask a kind of different strain of questions because it seems like your thoughts about this aren't clear, which is the first thing I want to talk about. So that's good. I think it's good that you're not clear. The reason that our stream helps people is because we take people who have muddy water and we help them clear it up. And since other people watch that process, like, they can clear up their own thoughts. Whereas if someone comes in with fully formed thoughts that's very clear and understands themselves, like that doesn't help us. Like, our audience wants to be that person, but they don't know how to get there. So let me put it to you this way. Like, what do you think would help people more? Watching an out of show. shape guy, get into shape, or watching an in-shape guy talk about how he's in shape. And he had a shape guy. Absolutely. So that's what we're here for. We're here for your muddy thoughts.

We're here for your half-formed thoughts. Like, that's what we want, man. And, and, like, it's not, we're, I'm not expecting you to have everything figured out. If you, you know, if you had everything figured out, you would go on a show, like, you would go on Destiny's Stream and, like, debate him, right? Like, people on Destiny's Stream, like, know. what they know and they know what they think and their beliefs are firmly held.

That's why this is the opposite. I want people who don't understand one on earth they think. Because I don't understand one on earth you think. Like we're starting from ignorance, not knowledge. Like that's what the stream is all about. It's about ignorance. Like I start by asking you a question like what's an insult? Because people think I'm an expert, but I don't think you guys get this.

Like, do you think I'm an expert? Good. Beautiful. So you guys do get it, right? So we don't expect you to know things And I'm thrilled to hear this Because this is a weight off my shoulders Because I'm terrified that you guys think I have answers

I don't have answers, I have questions Yeah No, I know that you have Questions, not answers Great Based off the other streams Because you know, you never Do you say you think you can help something

You don't say you know you can help someone Absolutely So who's got the answers here. Hey, me or you? Uh, me. Absolutely. And so you may not know that you have the answers or you may not know what they are yet, but my role is to help you figure out what answer you know by asking you questions. And that starts with you giving us crappy answers. Here's how this works. I ask you a question. You give me a crappy answer. I ask you another question. You give me a slightly better answer. And we do that for about an hour. And then hopefully you'll have some answers.

Who knows? What do you think about that? Yeah, it makes sense. Can I rely on you to give me just shitty-ass answers? Yep. Awesome, dude. Thank you very much. So let me ask you this. How long have you been in itself? Pretty much forever. Okay. So, so, and I, like, could you explain, like, the Redfield, Blackpool stuff? Because I think that might help. I don't know what that is.

Oh, then don't worry about it. Yeah. Well, if you think it's, can you explain it? No, I just hear people talk about it. It's like your assistant asks me about it, but I don't know what it was. I don't understand what Black Pill is, but I can explain to you what I know. So when I was in college, there's this thing that started becoming popular called pickup artists or the PUA community. And these were people that thought that essentially getting laid or picking up a girl for a short-term sexual satisfaction was like a skill.

And I think they're right in a sense, right? So like being able to convince someone to have sex with you is sort of like becoming like selling a car. Like it's a skill that you can learn. And so what happened is I think that they took what was then the in-cell community and gave them a light of hope. They said that you can get laid to. And all you have to do is like work with us.

And we're artists. We're pickup artists. So we're going to get. And they started coming up with all of these, in my opinion, pseudoscientific concepts. They think that they're scientific concepts. maybe we'll get there. I'm not really sure. I'm not an expert in that stuff.

And they started coming up, so they started explaining to people that, like, you're an in-cell and there's, like, biology involved. And it's... Anyway, so, like, they started sort of supporting their things with scientific theories. And then over time, I think this became the Red Pill community. And my understanding of the Red Pill community is that there are a group of people who believe that men have... falsely been lured into a perception about the dynamics between men and women.

So that like there are some value judgments like marriage and monogamy, which are not like, which are sort of like, I don't really understand this stuff. But the best way I can put it is that like some of the assumptions that we have about the relationships between men and women are actually false. And this is an analogy from the matrix about like, do you want to live in a world of false comfort or do you want to face? reality and take the red pill and see things as they are. So in that kind of idea, they sort of

say that like, you know, some of these like monogamy and other kinds of concepts are like blue pill concepts. And then so that's a big part of red pill. And then I think the other big part of red, I mean, there are lots of big parts of red pill, but as best as I can understand, there's also this concept of alphas and betas, which is like an alpha is like a chad. And, and so that means like a dude who can get women. and a beta is a dude who either cannot get women or gets women in a way that sacrifices a lot of his power. And there's like power dynamic.

I think really alpha and beta is not about getting laid. The best I can understand it, it's about a power dynamic between men and women. And that's what I understand. I actually literally do not know what black pill is. So like at some point, maybe in the early like 2010, 2011, I sort of like lost track of the evolution of the pickup artist or red pill community,

which I was in essence, like, sort of a part of in the sense that I had friends who were really into pickup artists and I like read some of their stuff and things like that. Because I couldn't get a girlfriend. How old are you, by the way? I'm 21. Yeah. So like I had never really dated a girl by the time I was your age. And so I went to college and like my.

my freshman and sophomore year, I like tried to date women and it just ended catastrophically every single time. Yeah. I think I'm like a beta, but what does that mean? I don't, well, as you said, somebody that isn't outgoing, you know, isn't, doesn't approach women. I can't chat them up, you know, et cetera. And I think I'm just a beta that doesn't seem, doesn't. doesn't like suck up to women or anything like that okay so what is what does that mean suck up to women what i mean just treat them like royalty i don't know okay how do you treat women

uh just like i woulda do just normal okay just like human to human and human and and what about where does the massage he come in there because that doesn't sound very misogynist to me at all. I mean, some women, they have, like, egos or, like, yeah, they have egos. What do egotistical women do to men? Some, it depends. Well, some lead them on, some. How does that work?

Why would a woman lead on a man? What does that look like? And, like, let's start what is. What is leading a dude on? look like. It just looks like just teasing with him, just playing with him, just like giving him false hope and then

and then only using him for her benefit. Yeah. Yeah. Has that happened to you? Yep. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. There's just a situation where

I was friends of a chick. We got along a lot, but how old were you? I was like last year. Okay. Can you tell us about her? You don't have to give like identifying details, but like, like, what kind of person was she? Like, what did you like about her?

She was hot. Okay. Most important thing. Yep. We got along. I mean, like, our personality is where I like, we, like, we, like, thought alike. I don't know. We just...

How did you guys meet? Uh, through a friend. over Discord. Oh, interesting. Well, no, we met. I went clubbing with her, and then after that, I added her on Discord. Huh?

Do betas go clubbing? No, but I do. But I'm a beta, though. Oh, interesting. I don't like clubbing, but I'm shit at it. But, yeah. I'm surprised to hear that. Usually when I imagine a beta,

I think about, you know, someone who's in a room like this. with electronics and they don't go out and go clubbing. It's weird. I mean, I have friends and like, sort of a social life, but like, I don't know. So you were out clubbing and you met her while clubbing? Yeah. Like, well, she's friends with my friends.

So, like, he invited me out to go clubbing with him and, like, them a lot. And then I went out. Is he an in cell, your friend? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, interesting. But he's friends with hot girls? I mean, yeah, he doesn't have a chance, but yeah, he's friends of him.

Hmm. Interesting. Why don't you think he has a chance? Because there's always someone better than him. In what way? Looks wise. Looks wise. Yeah. So people who are better looking than he is.

Yeah. And if there's someone better looking than he is, he doesn't stand a chance. Yeah, probably. Okay. So what you're telling me is that your perception is that women choose men solely based on looks? I mean, yeah, I think it's a big part, but I don't think solely based on looks. Okay. So what else? So how do you think women make choices about who they date? Well, I just think looks and personality and how much they don't. they like them.

Personality? Yeah. Hmm. And how much they like them. Okay. So maybe we can kind of get to some of those abstract things in a little bit. Can we go back to, so you met this girl. She was a friend of your friends and she was hot.

You all were at a club together. And did you interact with her? When I was out, I awkwardly danced. And then, yeah. rather than afterwards, yeah, nothing happened in the back, slept, woke up. When you say awkwardly danced, did you dance with her? Yeah. It was cringe.

Okay. How do you know it was cringe? Because it just was awkward. You felt awkward? Yeah, it was super awkward. Okay. And so then what happened? Well, then she hooked up for Black did.

That was attractive. I see. At the club that night. Yeah. And what is, what does hooking up mean? Just hooking up, kissing. Kissing. So you saw them.

I mean, dancing and then, yeah, like just doing his thing. I don't know. So I know this is going to sound bizarre, Hayden, but I don't know what hooking up means. like literally. I don't know if that means they had sex. I don't know if that means they kissed.

Just, just, I don't know, making out in the club. Okay. And so did you want to make out with her in the club? Yeah, probably. And you saw them making out.

Yep. And do you remember how you felt when you saw that? I mean, yep. How did you feel? Mist opportunity. Mist opportunity. That sounds like a watered down answer to me, buddy.

I think about missed opportunities like... So you play games? Yeah. Yeah. So like, are you familiar with this game Jedi Fall in Order or whatever? Yeah, kind of. I haven't watched any gameplay, but... Yeah.

So I bought this game when this COVID stuff was starting. and then about three days after I bought the game, it went on sale. And so I felt like that was a missed opportunity. Like, oh, I could have saved. Like, when I think about the phrase missed opportunity, I sort of think about, and maybe this is like my perception, okay?

So I'm just sharing with you what I hear when you say that. Like, I think about, like, oh, I could have saved 15 bucks. Like, man, that was a missed opportunity. I think about, like, if I was more confident in this, like socially awkward and anxious, I could have done better. Sure. You know, didn't have to, you know, but yeah. Did you think that maybe you would be better if you were black?

Yep. And being black is important because you'd have a bigger dick. And look better. You know, taller. Yeah. So it would, so you don't have that advantage. This guy has the, I know, it sounds. Why are you laughing?

What's funny? What's funny about it? Nothing. It's fucking weird to say, isn't it? Yeah, it's fucking weird to say, man. We were both thinking about the dick size, right? No. No, oh, just thinking that.

I just think about dick size when it comes to black man. Part of the package when you're, you know. What, I'm sorry? I said it's part of the package. It's part of the package. package, yeah. So it's like you kind of think about that. Yeah. Yeah. For a second there, I was like maybe, oh, I'm, I guess just Dr. Kay thinks about black dicks. Like, that's just me projecting and assuming what's in your head. But I'm sure that'll end up on LSA. Yeah. So, so, so. So you, you kind of thought, like, so, so what I'm seeing is that, you know, you thought that you could have been better if you were black. I mean, like, I think part of it's like social, like, I'm just super anxious and socially awkward, and I'm, like, super, like, self-aware as well.

So then it just makes everything worse. Sure. You notice your anxiety? Oh, yeah, nah. I notice it. Then I'm dabbily awkwardly. I'm, like, do this fucking cringe. And then, yeah, nah.

And then, yeah, it's just super awkward and cringe. What was awkward about it? well, I'm not a very good dancer, so that's pretty awkward. How did you feel when you saw her making out with the dude? I mean, I just thought it is what it is. Really? That's a thought. How did you feel? Feel like shit.

What does that mean? In what ways did you feel like shit? just that I don't know I could have done better okay just feel like shit okay so we can I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna move us along if that's okay Hayden but I just think it you know I think it's worthwhile noting that like feeling like shit I hear what you're saying and I kind of know what you mean but I think there are a lot of feelings there right yeah like I just felt like I don't know it wasn't good enough yeah that you're not good enough.

And also that, like, I'm also getting a sense of powerlessness about this situation. Like, like, I'm getting some amount of self-loathing, some amount of shame, and also some amount of powerlessness. So, like, let me take a stab at what maybe your thoughts are. You know, so you kind of, like,

I can just imagine, like, you're kind of dancing with this girl, and it probably was, like, hard to even, like, get up the courage to even dance with her. Right? Like, if you feel kind of cringe and awkward and like you're not confident in yourself. Like it takes a lot to even take that first step. And then she kind of like you put in like a lot of work to like overcome your anxiety

and you dance with her and then she goes off and makes out with a black dude. And looking at that probably hurts, right? So I'm just going to toss out like what I can imagine you felt or maybe a better way to put it is remember the way that I felt when I talked to a girl at a party when I was a freshman in college. and, you know, it was hard and then she ended up talking to another guy or leaving with another guy. I felt like things were unfair.

I felt like I was cursed because, you know, in your situation, I mean, I don't remember having these particular thoughts, but like, you know, you were kind of saying, like, because he's black, this is why this is happening. So there's a sense of, you know, you're, what you get is not yours to control because you're not black. Let's not judge the thoughts. I see you judging the thoughts.

Are you judging the thoughts? What do you mean about that? Like are you saying these thoughts are stupid? No. Okay, what do you think? I agree. I agree with them. I'm just thinking like, just, yeah, no. I have nothing.

So I think there's some amount of like powerless. and sort of the sense that things are out of your control. But the funny thing is like you also blame yourself. Right? Which sort of doesn't make sense because either it's out of your control or it's in your control, but you manage to beat yourself up with both of those things. It's like right hook, left hook. You know, it's like, oh, but like if you were better,

then she would be talking to you instead of a black dude. And if you were black, she would be talking to you. So it's kind of like you're screwed because you're not black and you're also screwed because You're awkward and cringe and you're anxious And so like it's your fault and it's out of your control Like that's a terrible place to be feels like that place to be I also think that if I wasn't awkward and cringe I could like not care as much is like

It's like losing missing that opportunity well not it wouldn't be missing the opportunity just that never happening because there's plenty more opportunity so I could you know go off and you know get but uh yeah yeah so what happened next nothing just uh I think you said you added her on discord oh yeah no we went back to her friend's house we all slept in the same room and uh hold on we just she you and her went back to her friend's house and you all slept in the same way yeah yeah not me no but we're all in there because uh it was her friend's mother's house so then we all went back to there and that yeah we just i don't know went to bed watched a movie okay and then and then the morning

and then in the morning i don't know just made a laugh and then we played games on disc games on good. You made her laugh. How did it feel to do that? I don't know. I make a lot of people laugh. Ego, but like, but yeah. How did it feel? So when I ask you how you feel and your answer is I make a lot of people laugh, what are you doing there? Why do you say that? What is your mind doing? Because, uh, I don't know. Making people laugh isn't really a big deal. me. I don't know. Okay. I'm not so sure I agree with that. I mean, like... So, yeah. So I'm going to toss something out, Hayden. So I get the sense that what you're doing is I asked you how you felt. And my sense is that, like, you felt good. It felt good. I mean,

I felt good. Yeah. And then when I ask you how you felt, instead of saying good, you kind of invalidate the way that you feel by like saying it's not that big of a deal. I do it all the time. Do you see that? True. Like you're kind of stepping away like you're willfully stepping away from your positive qualities and positive interactions. Yeah. You're dismissing it essentially. Yeah. You're dismissing your good feelings. Now why do we do that? Any idea? to protect yourself wow I didn't think you'd be able to get there Hayden

what are you protect why does dismissing our good feelings what does that protect us from don't we want to have good feelings getting disappointed very good protects you from hope how do you feel about hope Hayden

just I don't know if I told you that I think that you don't have to be an insult for the rest of your life how would that make you feel good would it make you feel bad too? I mean, no.

Okay. Cool. So we'll see if... I'm not actually saying that yet, but we'll see. Maybe we'll get you there. Do you think you have hope? I hope? Yeah.

Yeah, I think... I think I have hope in the right situation. Okay. So let's explore... Can we keep talking? Is that okay? Yeah. So you made a laugh. Yeah.

Yep. Did you think you had a shot when you made her laugh? No. But it was nice to make her laugh. I mean, yeah. And then you guys started playing, you added her on Discord. Yeah, we played PubG. How did you do that?

Did you ask her for her Discord ID? No, I just mess her in DMs. How did you figure out who to message her, how to message her? message her if you didn't know her. Well, I like, sort of talked to her once before we went out. So I kind of like, kind of had an idea who she was. And then afterwards, so I just knew who she was. And I already had a steam, I'm pretty sure, from like ages ago.

But like, I don't really know. Right. Because like, like the reason I'm tunneling down into this, because a lot of times getting contact information of women is actually a hard thing for incels. Yeah. Right? When I was growing up, I wasn't really an insult, but I wasn't an insult in the way that I didn't have relationships, but talking to women or just girls when I was growing up, it was like easy, which, yeah, pretty easy for me.

There's a chat deep within you. yeah there's an alpha in there man talking to gorgeous girls was easy wow impressive so then what happened so you guys start playing games on on pub g yeah and then yeah and you like her at this point not at this point i was just getting to know her talking about shit and then yeah yeah Yeah, I think I didn't really like it until, like, later on. And it took me a while to develop feelings. Okay. What started to happen?

What kind of feelings did you develop? I couldn't really help it as well. Like, the feeling is just kind of, like, kind of, like, kind of trouble. Like, I didn't want to feel that way, but I couldn't help. What will feel a lot way? Um, feel To be in a relationship with her, I don't know Okay, were you in love with her?

Yeah, probably Do you think, I'm trying to figure out why that's hard for you to say Or recognize Yeah, I don't know Sounds like you fell in love Yeah, yeah, probably did Yep. Do in cells fall in love?

What does that happen to them? What do you think? Well, no, no, no. I think they do, but then they, I don't know. I think they can't, yeah. I think it happens a lot. Yeah. What do you think?

And that's why they become in cell. Yeah. I don't know. Great thought. Like, that's what I was thinking, too. But can you help me understand, you know, because the last time I assumed we had the same thought, it turned out to be very wrong.

So why do you think that falling in love helps them along the path of becoming an in-self? Because they get hurt, and then, you know, they're necessarily, I don't know, they just don't have control. Yeah.

Hmm. What don't they have control over? Who likes them and who doesn't? So you can't make someone love you back? Yeah. So what did you start doing? Did you do anything differently when you started developing feelings for her? Yeah, I would say so.

What'd you start doing differently? I would like a message or I'd actually play games more and then I would notice it as well because, you know, needy. What do you mean by that? What does that mean? Needy. Well, like I want to. play games with her because I'm bored and desperate and she's not so it's needy on my end because how is that bored and desperate I'm confused well I had nothing but I was bored and desperate

how do you know she has more because she's not bored and desperate how do you know that though because I don't know social life how do you know what her social life is though. Because she tells me. I see. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I didn't mean to ask. No, I was just genuinely curious. Like, you're sort of saying that, because what I'm seeing is like, early on, you kind of

said that you treat women like humans, right? You don't treat them differently. And what I'm seeing is like two people who enjoy playing games together. And generally speaking, people on Discord or bored and desperate. Like, that's, that's the average Discord user. Right? That's... Yep. And even the women that I've talked to or played games with who are on Discord also tend to be pretty bored and desperate.

They tend to be like, I don't see a big gender difference in terms of, you know, how successful or bored people are or desperate people are on Discord. Just in my own experience. We're all gamers at the end of the day. But anyway, so it does sound like she had a pretty active social life. So what I'm kind of getting a sense of is maybe what's needy is that she had a, life outside of you, but you were noticing that your life started to revolve more around her. Yeah, I think while I was working at the time, and like when he was getting bad, uh, like I was, I was like doing, I was working at a factory. So then I'd like, so all day had time to

think because it was like a very boring job. So that made it like even worse than it was. And I was just made what even worse? just thinking and being like obsessing kind of and it's just creepy and weird but it is what's what was happening obsessing what were you thinking what kind of thoughts were you having just the situations where it could work out so you were fantasizing about how things could work out Yeah, yeah And what kind of Can you walk us through one of those?

And if that's too personal, it makes you uncomfortable We don't have to, but I'm just The reason I'm asking is because I'm curious Whether what you say is going to resonate with the people that are watching Because I think a big problem here Is that we all have these thoughts But like no, like you feel alone with those thoughts, right? You feel pathetic with those thoughts

And the point of string here is that You're pathetic but you're not. alone. Yeah. Right. We're all pathetic. Yeah. Uh, situation. I don't know. That just, just, I think it's more like her changing. Changing how it's like I'm trying to remember like a thought or how I would think. What would you spend? I guess it's like ego as well because like, uh, like I'll think that you know, I'm pretty alright dude, you know. And there's, she just has open eyes or someone on those lines. Sure, she just has to see how good you are.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, pretty much. And so you start thinking about her more and more. Yeah. And so you're thinking about her while you're working and then you play games with her in the evening. And do you have certain hopes?

Like, what do you want to happen, Hayden? What did you want to happen? I just want to live happily ever after. Absolutely. With her, right? Yeah. Not what the black dude she was making out with. No.

Okay. And so then what happens? So like you're thinking about building a life with her and you guys just play games together. Did you ever share your feelings with it? No. Fuck no. What gets in the way of that? Because she doesn't share the same feelings.

So what's the point? How do you know that? Because if she did, we would be dating. Okay, I want to put, I want you to just try something for me. I know how that sounds dumb, but yeah, what it should send the dumb, but like. So, so let's just to see for a moment that it's not done. I think it just, but it ended differently. What sounds dumb about that?

Well, you can never know what somebody else is thinking. Yeah, but that's. That's not what actually happens in your head, right? Like, you don't tell yourself. You can't actually know what someone else is thinking. Yeah. Well, like, I'm not going to tell her my feelings when she's, you know, clubbing, you know. And also, yeah, no, she tells me, wait, that this is, okay.

Well, when I was working in the factory and I was, like, doing belt work and shit and just losing my mind, she she like was messaged me about her guy problems as well so that's pretty low you know low blow so that's how like what was the low blow about that let's think about that for a second because it's not me i don't know yeah what's what's not oh you're not the one she's having guy problems with yeah well i mean if you want if you want to be the guy she's having guy problems with you can just tell her what your feelings are then you guys can have a problem right You could become part of the drama, man. Why sit on sidelines?

I don't know if that's a problem that I want. But let's think about that for a second. Because you're saying, like, I want to be the guy that she texts loser in cells about because she's having problems with, right? You want to be in that role. No. I don't want to be messaged by that shit. Okay.

You don't want to be messaged about that shit, but you want to be the shit. You want to be the shit that she's messaging other dudes about. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, why not? Right? So, like, she has drama with dudes, and you don't want to hear about that because you want to be with her. Why is she sending you those messages? Because I'm a pretty straightforward and honest person, and I guess she values my opinion. You're straightforward and honest. Really? Maybe not to you, but we're friends, yeah.

No, I apologize. I didn't mean. mean to, I was just really confused because what I'm hearing from you is like you had these feelings and you were anything but straightforward or honest. Yeah, just with those feelings, yeah. So, so I'm not trying to make a value judgment on you as a whole. I'm just like, I just surprised to hear you say that because it sounds like you were playing one, you know, you were interacting with her in a particular way and you were thinking about her in a different way.

Yeah. So then what happened? Did you feel like she was leading you on at this point? No, I just thought this sucks. Yeah. It sounds painful to be in love with someone who sends you text messages about other dudes. Yep, that's so. Now we get back to when you were saying, like, I ask you, how does that feel?

And you're like, shitty. I was like, oh, okay, I get it now. Sounds like it feels shitty. Yeah, yeah, it does. so what happened then um what happened next just like i don't know we we hang out we hanged out like once or twice we went to the city and just went shopping and then after that i asked to uh hang it again and then she ditched me to go clubbing

and I was like fuck you can't oh sorry what do you my ditched you to go clubbing well like we set up plans to like

go for a drink or go hang out and like I'm there meet up but then and then she bailed on me to go clubbing with a friend you should rather to do that. And I was like, yeah, that's kind of shitty.

When did she bail out like the same day or like? Like, well, uh, it was like the day before. So what did she say? Like I messaged her about it like yeah, we still, we still going to hang out. And she just bailed. What did she say? She just said, uh, it wasn't on my mind. Uh, I forgot about it. Uh, I'm going clubbing tomorrow.

forgot about it or forgot about you is there a difference that's what I'm wondering it sounds like there isn't yeah pretty much because you don't forget anything about her right so like it's like you she spends most of her time I mean you spend most of your thought

or you spend a lot of your thoughts thinking about her like if you guys had had plans you would never forget yeah pretty much it feels like you're an afterthought to her her. Yep. Like it feels to me

like she doesn't value you as a person. Yeah, pretty much. And how does it feel to care a lot about a person who doesn't care a lot about you? I mean, it is what it is.

It feels shit, but I can't make them feel in a way, so it's nothing I can do about it. You can't make them feel the same way so there's nothing you can do about it. I don't know if I agree with that, but we'll get there. I'm kind of curious.

So then, you know, you say, fuck you, see a word that is omitted on Twitch because it is offensive. And then what happened? And then we just stopped talking. And then after that, like, we haven't talked for, like, Ian, and then we started talking, like, a year. A year a month ago. When you say, we stopped talking, that means you stopped messaging her?

Yeah, I just forgot about it. She just, you know, didn't message me either for like a year. So let me ask you something. Did it feel like you are doing

most of the work of communication? Like you would start all the DMs and then she would respond. Was there a part of you that was kind of paying attention to if I don't message her, how long is it going to take her to message me? Yeah, definitely, yep.

And then when she didn't message you for a week or two, did you feel like you were right all along and like you were putting more into this relationship than she was? And she actually doesn't care about you. I felt, well, I already knew that at that point, but, yeah, it wouldn't make me feel that. Yeah. And so was she leading you on?

No. I mean, I wouldn't say so. What did she do to you, Hayden? She was just my friend. I don't know. This, that doesn't make, that doesn't answer my question at all. I don't, like, it sounds like she did something to you. How do you feel about her now?

Now? Uh, I don't know. Just. Do you still love it? I don't really have that. No, no, really. Well, it's more like, I don't know. I don't think I'd still love her or anything.

Okay. Why are you smiling? Oh. No reason. It's just weird because we're friends that are only going to watch us, and it's pretty nerve-wracking. Your friend. Not her, right? Your friend.

Is she going to see this? Holy shit. I hope she never sees this. Why not? What would be painful? it should be weird what would be weird what would be weird about it because I'm irrelevant in her head and then it's kind of like creepy is it not what's creepy about it I don't know she's me talking about her when she doesn't she has no clue sure but

watch comes off creepy okay can I think for a second yeah sure so first of all huge props to you for saying all this stuff because I mean if your friends are going to watch it then that's like holy shit man I didn't even realize that you know I guess I should have put two and two together that if you guys game together there's like a small chance that she is aware of what we are and you know what we oh no sure no sure no sure so what is it so let me ask you this Hayden, what does it like to share this story? Like, how do you feel like having talked about this? I don't know. I've never really talked about it. So it's kind of new to me. Good. What is, what do you think? Like, it's like we're playing a game for the first time. You're like, oh, I've never played this game before. Like, what do you think about this game? What do you think about talking about the things that you've kept locked up inside? I don't know. It's kind of wait. It's kind of weird. Yeah. So we knew you were going to say that.

right? So it sounds like you're confused about what to feel or that you're feeling things that are unfamiliar. That's what weird means. It's a novel experience to you. I don't know how I feel. So what I'm getting from you is that you haven't become unburdened. I'm not getting that at all, which is perfectly fine. And I'm not getting any sense of positivity or negativity. What I'm getting a sense of is like, this is new for me. What's happening? Like, okay let me just think for a second so having talked through this story are there any kind of like thoughts or reflections that kind of pop up about yourself like if you are listening to this this is kind of a weird question

it's sort of like a read my mind question so if it doesn't make any sense don't worry about it but like I'm just wondering like has anything kind of popped up to you as like odd or something that you want to think about or maybe explore or what would you say to yourself having heard this story I mean I just think my thoughts really haven't changed much. Sure. Would you like your thoughts? How I feel about it?

Yeah, sorry, go ahead. How I feel about it? Yeah, it's no different. Okay. And if I would like my thoughts to change, yeah, maybe, yeah. Okay. So, Hayden, is it okay if I sort of talk a little bit more and kind of ask you fewer questions for a little bit? Yeah, so good.

So I still don't understand exactly where the misogyny comes from. Like, do you believe that all women are going to treat you like she did? Do you believe that if you interact with women in the future, that you're going to end up in the same place? I mean, I think I've high standards, so that could, so, yeah, I would end up in that situation. What do you mean you have high standards? What does that mean? I go for attractive

sort after like there's a lot of people going after for the same person yeah I'm yeah not just just

would you be okay with lower standards probably not okay I don't think so would you date a girl Would you date a girl who's a five out of ten? Probably not. Why not?

Because I'm not attracted to them. Okay. So I don't think you have to be an in-cell. Let me start with this. Can I share some thoughts with you about that? You're welcome to, you know, swat them down as they pop up. So the first thing is I think a lot of your conceptions are in your head. Like I think the reason that you believe you're an in-cell is,

because you set yourself up with a scenario that is unwinnable. Like, the reason that it's not your... Like, you give up your power, basically, which is bizarre. So, like, you feel powerless, but, like, you're the one who's actually giving it up. And the simplest thing is that you have no idea how she feels, but you make assumptions based on what you observe about what her preferences are.

So I think this is a big problem. What are you thinking? You're smiling. I mean, yeah, no. agree. I'm just thinking about those situations. Like what? Just, uh, I don't know, so kind of call me off guard. Okay. I was just thinking about how it's, uh, those situations are kind of evident. Like, what do you, what do you, what do you mean those situations are evident? Like, which, what's an example? I mean, like, message me about the dude that she's obsessed with.

So why would I, let me, yeah, so that's the, that's the reason why I think that she doesn't feel like me. Sure. So, so, so I, I agree with that. I think that that actually kind of makes sense because I think at some point you guys became friends. Yeah. And she didn't have too much of a romantic interest in you.

Yeah. So let me kind of share a couple of other things. So I think that like, are you familiar with like all of this, you know, like, mate selection? theory that people like in like do you guys talk about that and in cell communities like i don't know i mean if you're part of in cell communities or not okay okay so you know i i think the basic issue here is that you know you're somehow assuming her feelings and you're somehow also assuming that she understands yours i mean i don't think she understands mine but okay so if she doesn't understand your

feelings, does she have a choice to date you or not? So like, actually, forget about that question. Let me ask you a different question. So let's assume that y'all's positions are reversed. So let's say that she hangs out with you. She saw you at the club and then she starts to have like a little bit of a crush on you. You seem to be dancing with her, but you demonstrate no romantic interest. So feeling hurt, she goes to the first guy that she can find and she starts to make out with him. and then at the end of the night she doesn't go home with that guy she goes with her friend with you

you guys sleep in the same room together and then you all talk you make her laugh she starts crushing on you a little bit and then you never ask for her number and then you message her on Discord and she's waiting for that and every time you message she responds you guys start playing games together

she starts to develop feelings for you and she's waiting for you to ask her out or share some kind of feeling and she has these feelings for you that you never see. I just don't believe she ever had feelings. I think we were just friends. I understand that you don't believe that. But if you can hide your feelings from her,

why can't she hide her feelings from you? I don't think. Like, you see what I'm saying? Like, if you can hide feelings from another human being, why do you assume that you know her feelings? Like, where does that? that thought come from? And I'm not telling you to abandon the thought because it's illogical. I'm genuinely asking us. I think it comes from somewhere. Right? That's like this is where I'm not

trying to prove you wrong. I'm trying to point out to you that you have a strong belief that she does not like you and that belief comes from somewhere. But it doesn't come from her. You see that? Like she, you can't know what's coming from her. She can let you know that she does like you, but she may like you and you may not be able to detect it. What do you think about that? Yeah, I can see that. So then the question becomes, if it's possible for her to like you and you to not know,

why don't you think about it that way? You don't think about it that way. How do you think about it? When I tell you, Hayden, there's a chance that she liked you all along. What is the instinctive response that you have to that statement? Forget about logic. Just

I can't believe it Absolutely good Right So like your response is You're fucking crazy man Yeah There's no way That's true

Right? That's what your response is You're like sure Logically it could be true But you weren't there And you really don't know It's impossible Is that how you feel?

It's impossible Yeah It's impossible that she could like you Yeah pretty much yeah Okay. So then the question... Yeah, at the start, not really... Like, I'm not 100%, but nowadays, yeah, 100%. Yeah. So then the question becomes, where did you start to believe that you are unlikable?

That she couldn't possibly be interested in you. Like, because that's a belief, right? Like, that's a belief you have about yourself, that there's no way that she's. could like you. Yeah, I just think I'm like insecure. Where does that come from? From my life, from everywhere. Chartered growing up, just situations.

Just yeah. Okay, so can we just think for a moment that like, so like even if what I say is like, so you, you have this firm belief that someone like, her can't like someone like you you can get a five to like you but you can't get an eight to like you yeah right like that's what you think so i think i think i'm not good enough yep absolutely and it looks it looks to like you know yeah i mean sure i mean you're not you know fine and and so so my My sense, though, is that, like, so I think you made a couple of mistakes here. The first is that you didn't share your feelings with her, and why didn't you do that?

Because I didn't think I was good enough? Yeah. You see that? But the thing is, like, I know you believe you're not good enough, and I think that's a fair belief, but there's a chance you're wrong, right? Like, how do you know? It's like you're making a judgment for her about whether you're good enough. Like, you're not actually letting her choose whether you're good enough.

You're deciding for her. It's kind of like, if you come over and I'm baking a pie, and then, like, you're at my house and I, like, pull the pie out of the oven. And then I look at the pie and I'm about to offer you a piece of pie, but I'm like, oh, this pie is shit. Like, you may like the pie. Like, pie may be good, but I'm just, I'm going to make that choice for you. I'm going to say this pie is shit, and I just throw it in the trash, and I don't even offer you a piece.

Because I don't have confidence. I just started baking pies a couple days ago. I follow recipes. They're not very good. Does that make sense? How do I get confidence? Beautiful. Right?

So the first thing to understand is that in cell, like what I'm hearing from you is not that like you're, you know, you don't need to be a black guy. Like because the problem isn't, the problem isn't that you're not a black guy. The problem is that like you fundamentally don't believe that you don't, like you don't even give her a chance, man.

And so the funny thing is that that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. you meet girl after girl after girl and you don't give him a chance and you don't give him a chance and you don't give him a chance and then you wind up alone and then you start to hate them as a class but this is like

I bake a pie you come over and I'm like this pie is shit and then I throw it away and then the next day you come over and I'm baking another pie I pull it out of the oven and then I'm like this pie is shit then I throw it away

and then the next day you come over and I bake a third pie and I say this is shit And then what happens is that night when I'm lying in bed And I'm like no one likes my pies It's fucking This guy has come over three times And I've not he's not told me

He's not given me a single compliment about my pie Does that analogy fit or not? Yeah, but what do you do when she doesn't want your shit pot? Exactly Like Hayden like what do I do? Like you don't want my shit pie Right? Yeah

Like, you don't want my shit pie, so I'm not going to offer you a piece because I know you don't want it. So I'm going to throw it away. You're going to come over the next day. I'm going to pull another one out of the oven. I'm going to throw that one away. Like, exactly, what do I do, Hayden? Because you don't want my shit pie. I don't know.

How can I get you to like my pie? Make it better. Absolutely. That's your strategy. So day number four rolls around. I'm going to make it even better. And I'm going to pull it out of the oven and I'm going to say to myself, oh, this is still shit. It's not that.

much better than yesterday. I haven't changed my recipe that much. And you're going to come over, you're going to sit on my countertop. You're going to sit at my table. I'm going to throw the pie away because it's not good enough. And then I'm going to say, tomorrow it's going to be better. And then I'm going to make it better. Or I'm not going to make it better because like I'm a piece of shit and I've made the best pie that I possibly can. And then I'm going to, I'm going to still tear my hair out because you don't like my pie. How do I get you to like my pie, Hayden? you make it better I've done that

five times six times I can't make it any better you can't make yourself better well then you can't you just can't make them like your pie okay in this scenario

I think the problem is that you've never tasted my pie you get that I don't know if you don't like if you don't taste it exactly but am I ever offering you a piece of pie maybe I haven't been clear yeah no

yeah no I get what you come from now Um, yeah. Because you come over and what I do is I pull the pie out of the oven, I throw it straight in the trash. And then I say, okay, Hayden, I'll see you tomorrow. And then you come over the next day because I want the pie to be perfect. I want it to be perfect before I'm even going to give you a taste. And then I get upset because you don't like my pie,

but I've never given you any pie to try. What do you think about that? I mean, I just think, what if you make a really good pie and you give it to them and they don't like it? What if? Right? That's why I'm not giving you the pie, because I'm afraid that you won't like it. And I want it to be good enough.

I want to guarantee that you're going to love the pie. I want it to be perfect. Because if the pie is perfect and I give you a piece, then you can't say you don't like it. The only, the security that I need is a guarantee that you're going to love my pie. And until I get that, I'm not willing to give you a piece. Does that make sense? Yeah. the only way you would share your feelings with her is if you were sure she felt the same way about you

right yeah you're up now that's that's a bit of a pickle why is that what's the problem with that hayden well yeah she just never gets to try your part absolutely so this is the other thing is like you actually don't know like you've ever had a girlfriend before no so like are you a good boyfriend. I've no idea. Is that how you feel? Yeah, kind of. So I imagine that you feel like you're not a good boyfriend, that you're not good boyfriend material. I don't think that I would be surprised if it's really I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's reasonable to say I don't know because you have no experience. Yeah, I've no experience. I've nothing to base it off. Right. So you could be good or it could be bad.

Yeah, pretty much. Right? Are you going to be great at it? What do you think? I could be. I could not. I don't know. Yeah.

So I think honestly, Hayden, the chances that you're going to be great at it are pretty low. Yeah. You know why I think that? No experience. Absolutely. But I do think that if you work at it, you're going to get better, just like PubG. Yeah.

I can't have in a mentality as well where I don't really want a girlfriend until well beautiful I don't even hear anything else this is the problem I don't want a girlfriend until yeah what's after that is fucking irrelevant

you see that the problem is the word until I don't want you to taste the pie until X Y Z makes sense so I don't want a girlfriend until dot, dot, dot.

So, Hayden, I think the reason you don't have a girlfriend is because you're not ready. I'm not ready to let you try my pie. You see that? It's not like, women is a race

or not discriminating against you because you're black, although that's a comforting theory because then it absolves you of responsibility. You can just hate them in the corner of your home and like,

ah, the world is a terrible place because I'm not a black dude. And fuck those people and fuck those people and fuck those people. That's easy, man. It's a very, very comforting little world you've built for yourself. Right? It's a safe place

because you don't have to put yourself out there. You don't have to get hurt. Because if you never tell her how you feel, she can't reject you. But she can. And she does. But like that's the thought that you have, right? Like if you tell her how you feel,

like what happens if she doesn't like the pie what happens if she says I don't feel the same way about you I don't know what happens after that so never experience that is that how you feel you're sounding way too rational

to me my friend I mean that's how I feel yeah well that's good right because then like if that's genuinely like if you're genuinely like I really don't know what happens after that because what I was hypothesizing is like the world comes tumbling down

around you. Like everything falls apart. And now I'm projecting because like I remember when I liked a girl, there was like there was a girl that I was like really, really into my freshman year and we were friends. And I never told her how I feel felt because I was fucking terrified.

Yeah, I think if I would open up it would just be like, and she says no, would just be like, like, correct, like saying that I'm correct about my insecurities? Absolutely. So, yeah. Very good. Right? So you have a fear that you're unlovable or will never be able to find a girlfriend.

And you will, you will never risk that being true to you. And instead, what you're going to do is never test that hypothesis. and by not ever testing it, you're going to reinforce it with each girl that you meet. It's a hypothesis that's never put to the test, but becomes more and more fact. It's fucking weird. That's not how we handle hypotheses. What we do is we test them. But here's the problem with testing a hypothesis.

When I have a hypothesis, I don't know that it's wrong. When I test a hypothesis, what happens? What do I put on the table? Answers. Absolutely. That's what you're avoiding, buddy. You see that? What you're terrified of is not women, it's answers.

You're afraid of what it could show. So now I've got a question for you, Hayden. What are you going to do? What do you want to do? What do you wish you could do? I wish I could just not give a fuck. Good. but you can't

yeah what do you wish what else do you wish you could do anything else by not give a fuck do you mean not care about any of this stuff or be willing to put answers on the table like be willing to test your hypotheses

well both yeah yeah both so very concretely now that you're deemming this girl again you're going to tell her anything well Okay. So can I help you a little bit there?

Yep. So when, you know, I think you and probably most of Twitch chat is thinking that what I want you to do is tell her how you feel. And that's what I want you to do. But I don't think that's going to look like what you think it looks like. So here's the conversation that I think is going to help you the most. And I think it's not going to be quite as terrifying as you think I'd be really surprised if you can accurately predict what's going to come out of my mouth. I'm going to toss this out there, okay? And I just want you to think about it. You don't have to do it. So it's not tell her, hey, I used to be in love with you and I was obsessing about you for years.

Here, watch this Twitch stream. It'll explain everything. That's not what I'm saying. Right? So I think this is the big thing. It's like people think like the other problem, Hayden, is that your options of communication with her or tell her everything or tell her nothing. That needs to change. That's the thing that needs to change.

The conversation that I think would help you the most and not because it's going to get her to fall in love with you, but because it'll help you grow as a person is hey, our friendship meant a lot to me and I was hoping to have like a conversation with you about it. And I realize now that I had some feelings for you that were like more than friendship and I was hoping we could just kind of talk that through.

And then you tell her, because now you're in a safe place because you're not in love with her anymore, right? There are still feelings. Fuck! That changes everything. I'm going to assume for a moment that you're not in love with her. Because if you're not in love with her, like you don't it doesn't matter if she likes your pie or doesn't like your pie.

I think the conversation you need to have with her is like, hey, you know, I've always thought you're gorgeous and I value our friendship, but I also had some feelings with you for you. And then there was one thing that happened. We had plans and I felt like you blew me off and that was very hurtful. And so then like I know we've kind of been out of contact and I realize now that that was because like it hurt me when you did that. I felt like I wasn't important to you. and you were important to me. What do you think about that conversation? I just think.

Yeah. I've had that conversation on my head before, though. I've had that conversation of like confessing. No, I'm not talking about confessing. That's not confessing your love. Are you hearing that is what I'm saying? That's not what I'm saying. What are you saying?

I'm going to say it again. I want you to have a conversation about your mixed feelings about her. Isn't I confessing? No, because confessing is confessing your love to her. It's confessing a unidimensional feeling. My feeling, my mixed feelings. Yes.

So you say, listen to what I'm saying. So, like, Hayden, I value, like, so, you know, I've always thought you're gorgeous. And I value our friendship, and I really like hanging out with you. And I enjoy, like, you know, just being friends. with you. And I also noticed that like over time I started to have some romantic feelings towards you. And I don't know exactly what happened there. But at some point, you know, there was this one time where we had plans to like go hang out. And then you kind of forgot about him. And you, you know,

I felt like you sort of didn't value me. Like I, you know, I was just disappointed and hurt when you kind of canceled plans. And it took me some time to sort of figure that out. I'm glad we're talking again. I just wanted to share some of those thoughts or feelings with you and, like, see kind of what you think. What are you hearing there? Are you hearing? I mean, yeah, I'm just thinking about it. What does that sound?

What does that sound like to you? Does that sound like a confession of love? Saying that you have mixed feelings to me is like a confession. Okay. How so? Because you're telling them that you have mixed feelings, so that's... Sure. Yeah.

But you're confessing... What are you confessing to them? That you have mixed feelings. That's it. Or that you had mixed feelings. You can even put it in the past tense. Yeah. Like that you have some feelings, but like you want to share the mixed feelings, right?

Because then what you want to do, the beauty of this conversation, she can go either way. She can say, yeah, your friendship, matters to me too, and I don't have romantic feelings for you, and then you cry. Or, but you'd be surprised. Or she says, by the way, I sort of have mixed feelings for you too. And then the interesting thing there is that you're going to want to go to like one of two places. Either you're going to want to jump for joy or you're going to want to be completely crushed. I don't want you to do either of those.

I want you to sit in the blend, right? And then you guys have another conversation about it. Do you want to just be friends or do you want to try to, like, try to date? And you talk it through with her. So the problem here, Hayden, is that you're making all of these decisions and shouldering all of the responsibility for y'all's relationship. You're holding all of it. Do you see that?

She, like, doesn't get to play a role. You're dealing with an NPC, not a party member. Yeah, it makes sense. So I think what you've got to do is, like, let her have some agency in this relationship. and give her a chance to voice your feelings. And by the way, you know, when we're talking about like things that women are looking for, I know a lot of people have perceptions that it's money or looks or other kinds of things. But I would say 90% of successful relationships that I've seen have men who are emotionally available.

This is a concept that in cells and I think red pillars don't understand. They think it's beta behavior. It's not beta behavior. Do you even know what emotional availability is? Not really. Okay. So like what I talked about, the conversation that I just gave to you is emotional availability. It's the ability to like think like a woman, basically.

And sort of like think like not in terms of black and white, but in shades of gray. That relationships are complicated and nuanced things where like there's shared decision making. It's not like alpha and beta. It's not like you trick her into sleeping with you or you make her sleep with you. There's like no agency. It's like you're interacting like the in-cell red pill community as best as I understand it, which I'm not an expert by any means. So someone does understand it better.

Please explain it to me. It's almost like they treat women like NPCs. Like they don't acknowledge that there is like a thinking, feeling person there that can make their own choices. And you accept all of the responsibility about whether she's going to, to like. Like, this is the thing. You got to understand, man. You can bake a perfect pie and someone cannot like it. You can bake an imperfect pie and someone can love it because there's no such thing as a perfect pie. Right? If I'm baking an apple pie, some people like it sweeter, some people like it more sour. Like, people have individual preferences and you're not even letting her choose.

Can't make sense. So the next part, if there's going to be a part two, and this is where I encourage you to think a little bit and I'll give you a chance to ask questions and stuff but my next question to you is like where did you lose your confidence because this whole in-cell thing is going to come tumbling down because like I hope you see this it starts with the basic idea that you presume she's going to say no

it starts with the basic idea that your pie is not good enough that's not a testable hypothesis it's a belief you have faith that she's going to say no so where does that come from I think it just comes from me like being insecure and hating myself. That's what it is. That's not where it comes from. Where it comes from is people telling me and then like just not being like successful. Sure.

With women. Yeah. So the other thing is that each time you go through the cycle. it's going to make that belief stronger in your mind. Do you see that? Yeah. But the other interesting thing is that if this is a belief in your mind that is dictating your relationships, it also means, like, that's just a belief.

Do you get that? It doesn't actually mean it's true. Like, if the belief can strengthen, it doesn't mean it's truth. And if it comes from people telling you that you're a piece of shit when you were growing up, like, that doesn't actually mean you're a piece of shit. It just means that you've been convinced that you're a piece of shit. There's hope there. Yeah.

Because if you can dismantle that belief, I think all this shit is going to come tumbling down. And you'll find yourself with a girlfriend because I think, like you said at the beginning, Hayden, you were a moderately attractive guy who sounds like he's funny. And can you land an eight? Maybe, maybe not. You absolutely can, by the way.

Thanks. But I think your bigger problem is that you're not willing to consider a five. That is ego. Like, you have this perception that you want this thing. And like, in the same way that you, want her to notice what's right in front of your eyes? I'm a hypocrite. Yeah. Yeah. Right? I already know that. Good.

I'm already telling me that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's not just you, right? So, like, I saw this really interesting, like, psychology article about, like, you know, like, there's, there are obese and overweight, especially, like, women. Like, this is, I mean, I could be wrong statistically about this, but my perception is that it's women who like want people to be like accepting of all body types. So they'll post about like, you know, there's no such thing as fat and they'll be like overweight. And it's usually women. These social media has led me to believe that. The paper that I looked at was looking predominantly women.

And the funny thing is that like people who women who want men to accept them for being overweight and treat them the same as someone who's not overweight are not willing to date overweight men. So that's common. We're all like that. I think it's all ego. Questions? Why is it a problem that I have a writing of high standards? Because I think your standards are unidirectional.

Like, they're not complicated enough because I think your standards don't lead to happy relationships, which is what I think you really want. Someone's physical attractiveness is in my experience is not one of the most important parts of a healthy relationship. So is it important? Absolutely. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be attracted to other people.

I mean, you shouldn't change who you're attracted to. What I'm saying is that, I think you have a false standard of what you're looking for that's fueled by your ego, which comes from all of this kind of complex. I mean, yeah. Like looking for the golden ticket or like...

Yeah, exactly. I think it's a fantasy. And I think that if... So like, here's what I've observed, okay, Hayden, and this is something that you have to experiment with. So I see possibilities in your life where you remain happy, or you become happy, or you remain alone and sad.

And I think the likelihood that you end up being happy in life is greater if you're willing to consider someone under an aid. I'm not saying don't have high standards. I'm saying expand the scope of your standards beyond physical attractiveness. So I think the average of all of her qualities should be greater than an eight. But I think someone who makes you feel like you're not a piece of shit is worth way more than how attractive she is.

If there was a 10 out of 10 that made you feel like a piece of shit and abused you, but also let you fuck her from time to time, I do not think that is a good relationship for you. Yeah, that would be. Right? But like There's the butt Would yeah no

But like Would I still Would I still care about her Like I'll just be in it for the six So Yeah you'd be whipped Then you'd be a beta Wits

Yeah you'd be a beta That's Then you'd be a beta I mean I When I just get to Fuck a hot chick though Absolutely

And then not care as well? No, you'd care a lot because she'd be fucking other people too and she'd make you feel like shit. Maybe she wouldn't be fucking other people. But I think like healthy relationships where people feel valued

and appreciated and supportive, that doesn't necessarily have to do with physical attractiveness, right? And I think what you want, what you really want Hayden is not to just fuck a hot chick. I think you want someone to love you back. That's what I think you want more than anything else.

I think you want someone who takes away that feeling that you are a piece of shit and unlovable and unattractive. I think more than... Now, I can't use the F-bomb, but... Okay, okay, Puey's there. Okay, thank you, Lovie. Okay. I'm just going to have to remain silent

because I can't talk about this with her in the room. So I think what'll be more satisfying? Let me put it this way, Hayden. I think you may disagree with this, but I just want you to think about this. what you're going to find more satisfying than fucking a hot chick I think is having a chick who's moderately attractive

who wants to fuck you. Yeah. We get so caught up about wanting to fuck hot chicks. But what makes us feel good is to like have someone come over. It's not that like my pie is the best. Like what you want is someone who wants your pie, right?

Like you want someone who's going to come up to you and appreciate you for who you are. want you as a person. They want to be with you. You don't have to convince them to be with you. You don't have to worry about them being with you. They want to be with you. That's what you want more than anything else. And if you have a certain standard of attractiveness, like, I think that's okay. If you want to end up only dating eight out of tens, like I think that's fine too. Like you can choose how you live your life, but I don't think you're going to be happy. Yeah, it makes sense. Thoughts or questions before you wrap up?

really, I don't know if I'll get anything from this. Like, I believe everything you say, but, like, I watch your other videos, but, like, it's never, like, I guess all I can do is acknowledge it. Yep. I think your perception of what you get out of this is going to be very poor. I think my perception. I don't think we, you haven't had, you haven't broken down crime. Right. That's what, people think that like, oh, to get something out of this, you have to break down crying. No. I think what you get out of this. Yeah.

Not really. So, Hayden, let me be very clear. What you get out of this is what you do with the thoughts and reflections that we've come up in here, with in here. Because in order to make change, it's not going to come from a conversation. It's going to come from offering the imperfect piece of pie to someone. That's what you, like no amount of talking to me is ever going. to be a substitute for that. You understand that?

Like the progress that you need is not going to come from me, man. How do I be okay with my shit pie? That's a good question. So I think we may have to have a part two at some point. But let me start here.

So we're going to do a little bit of meditation. Sit up straight, close your eyes, and feel yourself for a second. Where is your shit pie? In my anxiety? Where is that? Feel it.

in my chest. Okay. What does it feel like? Nervous. Tightness. Tightness in your chest, right? Sweating, quick beating. Sweating in what?

My heart's just beating quick. Quick beating hard. Okay. So this is the shit pie, right? This is what you're saying? So now let me ask you, Hayden. If these feelings were to reduce, does that make your pie less shitty? I think there's still insecurities

Sure I didn't say does it make it go away I said does it make it less shitty Yeah Okay so let's start let's start there right So this is you're saying how do I get rid of the shit pie And the answer is it takes time and effort It doesn't happen through one conversation So I think you need to start thinking back to

Where you started to form these beliefs I think seeing a therapist is a great idea Or see one of our coaches They can help you with this kind of thing as soon as they're available to help you with this kind of thing. Yep. And right now I want you to just notice those feelings, and I want you to breathe into them.

So put your head up straight, neck up straight. Good. There we go. Relax your shoulders. Don't hunch over. So I want you to, are you leaning against the back of the chair? Yep. So I want you to sit forward away from the back of the chair.

Yep. How tall are you? 5.11? Okay. So. Okay. So can you raise your chair a little bit? No.

Do you have anything that you can sit on? No, no, I don't want to you to move. I want to affect your posture, not your camera. Oh, yeah. I can sit on my pillow like Mitch Jones. Yeah, sit on your pillow like Mitch Jones. Beautiful. You look like you're hunched.

Are you hunched? There we go. There is. issue number one you're not going to be confident if you're sitting like you were sitting before that is the posture of a beta who is insecure how do you feel now

I feel like I'm sitting up straight there you go so your whole life Hayden you have not been sitting up straight you haven't actually been sitting the way that you really are you've been sitting over hunched smaller than you truly

are. How does it feel to sit up straight? Just feels like I'm sitting up straight. I don't have any feelings related to sitting up straight. Okay, fine. So what's happening in your chest? I'm just puffing it out. Just... Okay. What's your anxiety doing? Same, same feelings. Okay. So I want you to notice that those feelings are sort of like operating in a different space. There's more space in there now. Can you feel that? Yeah. Yeah, I can feel it. So if there's more space, has the anxiety grown, or is it sort of just occupying like a portion in the middle?

It's stayed the same, but. So is there space around the anxiety that is not anxiety in your chest? I think it's filling up because I'm thinking about it. Good. Let it. So watch it filling you up. Sit up straight. There we. go. See, as you fill up, you start to hunch down. So keep yourself straight. If you need to, now what I want you to do is pick up your pillow and fold it in half and then sit on it. There we go. Eyes closed. Now what I want you to do is to breathe into your chest and expand it. Maximal breath, hold that, feel that tension, and then relax. Let your spine remain erect. Your shoulders can relax, but your spine should stay straight. There we go.

you guys see what he just did with his head now he's doing it right so I'm going to talk to Twitch chat for a second I don't know if you guys can tell but Hayden is less pathetic now he may feel just as pathetic but he's less pathetic you guys can see the difference

like just look at him I know it's anxiety provoking for you so now what do you feel Hayden nothing okay Hayden's like I don't know what these fucking guys are talking about that's okay that's fine So are you smiling out of embarrassment or absurdity or what?

I just think it's funny. Okay. Good. We'll take it. What does the laughter do to the feeling in your chest? I don't know. I don't really change laughing. Okay.

It's, uh, yeah, I can't tell you. Okay. That's okay. Good. So breathe. Big and then out. Now what I want you to do, Hayden, we're going to do Darth Vader breath. Have you learned this before?

Have you seen this? before so you know how dark beta breathes how does he do can you make that sound yeah good so i can't stop swags i feel like a fucking idiot good i'm glad you feel like a fucking idiot but yeah let's do it make the noise and i want you to focus on your throat okay i want you to contract your throat and slow down the rate of your breathing and make that noise good beautiful so sit up straight again. Good. Back straight, head straight. There we go. I don't know what sound you want me to make. Could you make it again? Okay, yeah. So just beautiful. And then out. Now, as you make that sound, can you feel a contraction in your throat? Yep. Okay. So now what I want you to do is focus on that

contraction, but now breathe through your nose. And you should hear a hissing sound in your head. You hear hissing focus on the hissing good I want you to do seven breaths and hear the hiss in and the hiss out with each one expand the chest fully so don't just focus on the hissing turn on the hissing and then focus on your chest and then exhale fully so folk turn on the hissing and then let your chest contract every ounce of air out every gram I suppose every milliliter and now that you're doing a good job, we're going to throw you off again.

Do you feel like an idiot? Yep. Where is that feeling of idiocy? I can't put a spot on it. Okay. Breathe through it. Four more breaths. Sit up straight.

Expand your chest. We're going to throw you another curveball. I want you to try to ignore what I'm saying. Listen to what I'm saying. Notice the thoughts and feelings it evokes and then go back to your breath. Now you're sitting like a chat. Now you're sitting like an alpha. I'm going to troll you harder and harder, buddy.

Just troll and breathe through it. See, you're ready for the next one? So you thought the bad part about this Twitch stream was your friends watching. The bad part is when I ask you to meditate and then make it really, really hard for you. Sit up straight. Three breaths. Focus on that contraction in your throat. Beautiful.

And then out. Now three more breaths. Count to seven for the in and, and seven for the exhalation. Beautiful. Now if you're done now, just notice what you feel. The anxiety is there. The embarrassment. The embarrassment is there. So now, Hayden, I'm going to ask you a couple of last questions. So your question to me was, how do you do things if you believe your pie tastes like shit? So did you feel anxiety today? Yep. Did you feel embarrassment today?

Yeah. Did you feel like you were doing a bad job? Yeah. How did you do this then? I'm confused. I thought that if you felt those negative things, you couldn't do things. Right? That's what you're telling me.

You're saying I have these feelings, how do I act? But just now you had a bunch of feelings, and I didn't make it easier on you. I was trolling you the entire time, making you look like more and more of an idiot. how did you do this? I just did. I don't know. Hmm. So I think your answer to your question,

now you've done it once. I'm going to leave it up to you to reflect and figure out what you did today. Because you came on to stream in front of thousands of people and aired the dirtiest, most shameful parts of your inner being. And you opened up,

you cut open your pie, and you showed people all of the shit inside, live in front of thousands of people. How did you do that? It wasn't easy, but yeah, I guess I did, yeah. Yeah. You're damn right, it wasn't easy. That's why it's valuable, because if this was easy, then you couldn't, like, that doesn't

help you, man. Why do you think I was making it harder for you? It's because, like, we want to make it harder for you. We don't want to make your life easy because what you're dealing with is not easy. It's hard. So we have to train you to do things in spite of your emotions that are difficult. And you've done it. You've done it once.

How did you do it? I'm not even sure. All I know is that this seems to work. I don't know how this works. I just know that it does. And something about people who... So this is the thing, Hayden, you... Part of it is getting to the root of why you feel this way in dispensing with that.

The other half of that is not bothering with the root, but just accepting that, like, your pie is kind of shitty. You can have negative emotions, but don't let them paralyze you, because they don't actually control you. And the more you understand and reflect upon what happened here today, that Dr. Kay, like, he didn't teach you meditation. He trolled you during meditation, and then trolled you harder and harder and harder and harder and harder. And yet you did it. So how does that work? I don't know. But something tells me that if you can understand what happened here today, you'll have the answer to your question. Now, remind me again, who's got questions and who's got

answers? You asked me a question. Who's got the answer? Me. Absolutely. Any last words? All right, man. Thanks a lot, by the way. You're very welcome, dude. Good luck. Thank you. And if you want to watch the Vod and really listen to what I said in terms of how

you should consider talking to this girl, okay? Really think about it. If you could, you know, send me the message. What do you mean? I'll say it. Yeah, sure. I'll message you. I'll send you some DMs, okay?

Yeah. Okay, take care. Thanks. Good luck, man. You too. We're rooting for you. Because if you can change, then we can change. Good luck.

Sure. Thanks. All right, boys and grills. Okay, so, okay, awesome. So what we're going to do, let me see if we want to do... Yo, do we have time for two questions? Do we have time for two questions? Yeah.

Awesome. Let's do it. Hi, can you hear me? Hey, what's up, man? Hey, how's it going? Good. First off, I just want to say how much I appreciate the work you're doing. You're addressing a problem within a community that probably needs it the most right now in this day and age.

but so my question is that I just was wondering if you had any advice for someone with low self-worth and how to stop comparing yourself to others yeah so I think yeah so I think like I was kind of telling Hayden there are two pieces to that right one is that you have to understand where the low self-worth comes from so like when did you start to just believe that you're like not a good person. And if you can go back to the source, like when, like, so think about when you feel ashamed about yourself. So I'm just tossing out the word ashamed. And what am I calling you, buddy? Uh, integral. Integral. Okay. So integral, when you think about like when you feel that shame or you find

yourself comparing and then you fall short, right? Because when you compare, you fall short of other people. Yeah. And, um, I guess that's why I have, trouble sort of approaching other girls or, you know, I'll start talking to them and then I'll just stop because I feel like they're going to be disappointed in me. Yep. So the first question is when was the first time you felt that feeling? I couldn't give you a time, but it's just basically when I, I don't want to give you the whole spiel, but it's basically when I started behaving and observing that I'm acting just like my father does and he's just somebody I really don't want to be like.

Okay. So I think like your journey actually starts with like something. It sounds like it starts with something around your father, right? So I encourage you to actually reflect and, and sort of think a little bit about did he make you feel a certain way? Did you watch him and feel a certain way? And you really have to like dig into that kind of stuff. and I've got to think a little bit about how to better help you guys structure those explorations.

And the second thing is to just recognize the comparison. Right. And when you're doing the comparison, like just like what we were doing with Hayden, you can have feelings, and generally speaking, those feelings control you. But you can also have, like you can, they don't have to, but we kind of feel like they do. and people don't understand that your feelings don't have to control you until you start the process of not letting them control you. And that happens in little, little ways. Right.

So if you're trying to talk to a girl and you find yourself like comparing yourself to other people in your head and saying, oh, this girl's not going to like me because I'm not so-and-so. So you have to start by finding the lowest value comparison. So forget about girls. but it's like maybe it's something like I'm going to smile at the person at the grocery store. And then there's going to be a small part of your in your voice that's in your head that's going to be like a voice that's like, oh, you're going to look dumb if you smile at people. And so you notice that, but the question is can you get away with it? Despite the voice telling you that you're going to look dumb, can you do it anyway?

Because right now there's a power struggle between you and that voice. and right now that voice is winning. So the way you start to win against the voice is you take the battles that you can, right? You're fighting a war against an opponent who's far stronger than you are. So you don't face them in battle like in an open field and get run over

because that's forcing yourself to ask a girl out. That's going to end terribly. You do guerrilla warfare. So what are the small battles that you can fight against the voice that you can actually win? And I'd start with something as simple as do you smile at people when you see them?

Wow. It's super insightful. Again, it's just like I never think about that kind of thing. But thank you so much for answering. What the, I asked you a question. Do you smile at you? Not really. I mean, like occasionally once in a while, but it's like. So literally integral, you should start by smiling at people.

And every time you do. that you're going to run a little experiment in your head like when when i tell you like the next person like who's the neck i know it's covid but who's the next person you're going to see besides my parents probably who said that you can't smile it not side besides any do you smile at fairly i mean okay yeah i mean occasionally yeah you know they they tell me something but it's it's not like a regular thing you know absolutely that's why it's important the goal goal here is to get you to do things that you don't normally do, not do things that are regular things for you. Right? Right. So start by smiling at your parents. It's going to be feel fucking weird.

Right? We're on the same page about that. But that's why you've got to do it. Okay. Try. Practice on them. And then you'll see a stranger and then you can practice on them. So you are practicing the skill, you're leveling up the ability. You're leveling up your emotion resistance. That's what this is. You've got to get resistant to your emotions and act anyway. Right? It gives you like an attack penalty.

But you don't stop swinging just because you've got an attack penalty. You've got to still take the swing. You're going to miss because you have an attack penalty. Fine. Build up your emotional resistance. Your attack penalty will decrease. And you'll start hitting things. hopefully women like isn't sexually not like physically abusively okay

okay all right man I'm gonna stop before I get banned all right thank you so much take care dude okay who's next who's next wait one more or two more one more one more okay then I have a question Hold on. It's Randar from the Discord. He asks, could you ask Dr. Kay how he met his wife if he struggled with it or maybe it was arranged? That would be interesting to hear. Yeah. So it was not arranged. I'm happy to say. So I met my wife at Summer Camp. And so like I had some interesting armor. So I really lucked out. So I met my wife at Summer Camp. So I went to India for like three months. And towards the end of that time, I came back to the U.S. and I went to this like, Hindu summer camp basically, where I was going to teach a lot because I had learned all this stuff in the old country. So, and I decided to become a monk. And so the cool thing that, so then I met her, and she was a counselor at the camp. I was a counselor at the camp.

You know, I was teaching all of this wonderful knowledge I had about meditation that I learned in these ashrams and these remote areas of India. And everyone was like, oh, right? Because they're a bunch of like second generation Indian camps. kids at this camp. And so the interesting thing is I think I kind of got lucky because in my mind, like I had taken a relationship off of the table. And so what I struggled with is like I thought, like I cared about what women thought when I talked to them. So I had trouble being me because I tried to be someone who was not me to get them to like me more. So there's like real All Oak. and then there's the all-oak

and real all-oak doesn't think that women can like him so he tries to be fake all-oak and it turns out that being fake all-oak is unattractive to women just like most of the time being a fake person is like people are attracted to like authenticity and I was super stressed out because I was trying to maintain this persona that I was not I was just like faking it right

and and so the funny thing that happened is like when I decided to become a monk I kind of let that go because I was like okay, there's no way I'm going to date anyone anyway. I'm going to become a monk, right? Because that was the way that I protected myself from the rejection. Because I protected myself because if it's like, if there's no chance that I can, you know, if I,

it's like, I don't have to feel like a reject if I'm not willing to date them in the first place. You get rejected from, you protect yourself from rejection 100% when you don't apply. You know, you get zero percent rejected from jobs if you apply to zero jobs. Zero rejection. Safety. And so the way that I did that in my mind was like, I was going to take all those feelings

of I'm a piece of shit. And then I said, I'm better. Oh, I'm going to be a monk. I'm going to give up. It's not in cell. It's like voluntary celbisc. So I was like a vol cell. And so the interesting thing is that it turned out.

that like when I just was myself, that sometimes women find that attractive. And then I got really, really confused. Because as I started dating her, like women that I was interested in for two years, like at college, started to like hit me up. Whereas just like Hayden, a lot of my communications felt one way. So unless I reached out to them, they didn't reach out to me. And then suddenly, like, you know, a year after I'm dating someone, I run into someone. And then they're like, and then throughout, so I got confused by that for a little while, and I wasn't really sure what was going on.

And then I got busy and tried to, you know, put my life together and stuff. So I didn't have time for that shit. And then, like, the funny thing is that even throughout like med school and stuff, like that kept happening. Like, and, you know, I just didn't care. So, like, by the time, so I was older than many people when I started med school. So, like, the average age of people coming to med school is like 23, 24. I was 27. I got married after my first year of med school.

school or like during my first year of med school. And then like the really crazy thing is like, like so then I really didn't care. So like once I knew, like once I got engaged, I was like, I went into med school and really didn't care. Like there's no possibility that I'm going to date anyone there because I'm engaged. So I was like, okay, that's figured out. I sorted through that. And so I just started to be myself. And then suddenly like nurses started hitting on me. And I was like, is this just because I'm going to be a doctor one day? Because that's what you would think, right? But it turns out that that's not the case. I mean, you guys can talk to doctors who are in cells. And they'll tell you that they thought that once they become a doctor, the women

are just going to be like trying to bash down their door and date them. And it turns out, unfortunately, it's not true. And this is where, like, I think people have a lot of, like, incorrect perceptions about what women are looking for. Because once you have friends who are doctors and in cells and becoming a doctor doesn't change their in-cell status, then you start to question, what is it that makes an in-cell? So I think at the end of the day, you know, I met her and kind of lucked out because my ego had sort of protected me from, in a weird way, had protected me from like that whole complex of thinking. And that's why I believe that like if we listen to Hayden, Hayden isn't actually cursed in life. Like what's holding him back is in here. It's not out there. And the reason I believe that is because I realize like the difference between me not being able to get a girl to date me and then like suddenly falling into. a girlfriend is, is like, has nothing to do with like my physical attractiveness or my ethnicity

and has everything to do with like what my thoughts are and how I carry myself. Because my, how I carry myself relates to my thoughts. And you guys like get what I was saying when like, like Hayden looked less pathetic. Right? You guys with me? Anyway, does that answer your question, Moses or other dude? Yeah. Do you have follow-ups?

I think so. Not really. That's a pretty good answer. All right, man. We should all go to summer camp then to cure our insult them. Yeah, so it's fun. I mean, I know you jest about that, but I do think it's worthwhile to like engage in activities where you're not looking for a date. Right?

Like, that's people, people say that. But like, as funny, I mean, as funny as that is, yeah, like, you should go out and you should just do stuff for the sake of doing stuff and be yourself. And then, oh, yeah. You know, don't have your head up your ass. then you will be surprised, right? Yeah. Anyway. Like not, not.

Healthy game, summer camp. Absolutely. Yeah. Did the retreat last year. Let's do summer camp. Let's do it. Hell yeah. Okay.

So thank you guys very much. Thanks a lot, Moses. All right. Thank you. All right, folks. So we are going to wrap up for today. Thank you guys very much for coming. Thank you guys very much for your donation,

descriptions, all that kind of stuff. You know, we're here to help people understand themselves, and we're not going to judge. Right. So hopefully I wasn't judgmental. But I think that, you know, if you're an in-cell, this is the other thing. So by the way, what's up with like all the softball in-cells? Like, this is the second guy who's like, I'm sort of an in-cell. And then he says, like, he uses the C-word and then he drops misogyny.

But, like, if he stops using the C-word, like, he doesn't really seem like a misogynist. Like, what's up with that? Like, do we just, is it because we're... such a wholesome stream that we can't attract the right kind of, you know, breathing fire sort of in cell? Like, can we get like a, like, like, maybe what we need instead of an incell is a red pillar, right? Can we get, can we get some real, just toxic, masculine, you know, just the, yeah, so what is a black pillar? I don't even know. Anyway.