HealthyGamerGG - Dr. K Chats With @gigguk

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

In a delightful conversation with @gigguk, we ventured into diverse topics spanning beliefs, anime, and the pursuit of happiness. Check out more mental health resources here! https://bit.ly/3xsk6fE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, my friend. Hi, how are you doing? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Thank you so much for this opportunity, by the way. Yeah, very excited, a little bit nervous. I'm not going to lie, but yeah, I'm just, yeah, ready to get into it, basically. Yeah, let's do it, dude. And so tell me, what do you go by?

Uh, so my username is Gigark, but you can call me Gaunt, which is my real name. Gaunt or Grant? Grant. Grant. Gant. Grant. So it's like Grant, but with the R and the A swapped over. That makes sense. Okay. Interesting. What's the origin of that name? It's Thai. So that's, I'm from Thailand. Oh, at least my parents are from Thailand. But I grew up in England. But yeah, that's my Thai name. And everyone, it's a meme, but everyone always confuses it for Grant, which I'm very, very used to. Okay. Yeah, I'm happy to call you Garn. Gantt. Yeah, Gantt.

Gar. Garred. Okay. And so you're one of the hosts of Trash Taste. Yes, that's right. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, so basically we, so basically a bunch of us. So I guess I should start right at the beginning. So first and foremost, I guess I'm like an anime YouTuber. I have been doing YouTube since about 2007.

And that was mostly talking about. about anime and reviewing anime. And along the line, like, I think like three years ago now, a bunch of us moved to Japan, a bunch of anime YouTubers, and we decided to start a podcast together. And we kind of marketed it as an anime podcast,

and then we immediately threw an Una Reverse card and was like, actually, we're going to talk about everything but anime a lot of the times. So it kind of just blew up from there. I think we were very lucky. I still don't know what the secret former is, but a lot of people have known us for trash days, and I'm very thankful for that. Okay, awesome.

So you all move to Japan? Yes, we moved to Japan. We basically got a opportunity from a Japanese company, since we all worked doing anime content on YouTube anyway, and they were like, hey, do you want to make content in Japan where anime comes from? So that would make things a little bit easier. and we'd all been friends for like a few years and the idea of a podcast had been floated around but we wanted to do the podcast in person that was like a big thing and we all lived in different places

in the world so as soon as we moved to Japan that was like okay I guess it's time to start the podcast like Annie Weeb's dream I do get that a lot and I you know sometimes I look back at myself and I'm like damn I never thought I would be in this position when I started my YouTube channel to like, you know, it was like kind of like the we cringe dreams, like move to Japan and just make content about anime and work in the anime companies. But I'm very

thankful to be able to do that. Yeah, that's awesome, man. Yeah. And is there something in particular you wanted to talk about today or, or? Oh, I mean, there's, I mean, I'm, I'm, like, free to just vibe or talk about specific topics. Uh, you know, thankfully I'm feeling pretty good about myself. I don't have too many in-depth things I want to talk about, I think. I guess while we're on the topic of anime, though, I guess, like, one thing that I would love to ask you about is maybe, like, the relationship between fictional media, which I've always found fascinating, because for me, personally, like, I don't know if this is a normal thing, but I've always found it easier to emotionally attach myself and emotionally invest

myself in like a fictional story as opposed to sometimes even more in a fictional story than in real life so like i've had i guess like real life events that have happened to me that have affected me less than sometimes watching a character go through a similar experience in a fictional story and how do you can you tell tell me more about that yeah sure so i'll give you a specific example. I think the first time I've really noticed this happening was when my grandma passed away. And that was back when I was like 22, 23 or something. And obviously, you know, I was very, very close to my grandma and I was obviously devastated, very sad that happened. But I remember like being at the funeral and I didn't feel the emotions that I thought I was going to feel, if that

make sense. It all felt almost dreamlike, like it was happening, but it wasn't really happening. And then, like, I think like a year or like a few months later, I watched like this anime. It's an anime called Summer Wars, and part of the, a big aspect of Summer Wars is there is this grandma there, and they have a very similar family dynamic to the family dynamic I had. and seeing like this is a slight spoiler but a similar thing happened to the grandma in the story

and when that happened all the emotions I guess I thought I would feel that my grandma's funeral kind of just like hit me all at once and that's when I like truly got emotional and I guess I just like wasn't expecting that what kind of emotions did you experience watching the anime?

I mean I cried that was a big thing that I thought I that was a big thing I thought would happen at the funeral at an event like that but it didn't like the emotions like the grief and crying and just feeling sad and thankful and all the emotions

that I guess I cognitively registered but I didn't like emotionally it didn't emotionally hit me until I saw something like that in a fictional piece of work and I guess yeah it's it's kind of like a running trend where I think that's why I love anime so much. I love movies. I love all sorts of media because I can connect with it emotionally

much easier as long as it's almost as if there's like not as big of a barrier there for me to like emotionally put myself into it. Absolutely. So that's it's a fascinating topic man. Like there's so much going on. But can I ask just one or two quick questions before I kind of, so do you think that the experience you had watching the anime related to the fact that you lost your grandmother or do you think it because like you could have all kinds of emotional experiences watching anime like do you think that you basically like I'm getting this kind of implication that there was a lot of dormant emotion that then like opened up through anime yeah yeah I think I think there were a lot of dormant emotions that I didn't know how to like bring to the surface or at least it just didn't come

natural where when I watched I when I watched the anime it just feels more natural to bring these emotions up to the surface, whereas in, you know, daily life, in real life, there might be, like, a few barriers there. And I'm not sure where that comes from or where that came from. But, uh, yeah, I, I find it interesting myself. And, uh, I'm not sure if there's a lot of people like me out there, but it's something that I experience at least. Absolutely. So how long of a answer do you want? As long as you want to give, I'm, I'm very fascinating and very curious about it. So I, I'm kind of curious, would you say that this happened, do you think there's a gender specificity here that the emotional numbness in real life and emotional access and anime based on your experience,

do you think there's a gender component to that, or is that basically the same between all genders? I mean, I can only speak for my own experience, but I do think, at least with my gender and my culture, I grew up in, I guess, like a traditional Thai family. and the man had to be seen as like, I guess not like the strong, the strong part of the family, not showing too much emotions. And I guess that might be part of the reason why it was easier for me to show emotions when I'm watching something fictional as opposed to when there's a real life event happening.

Okay. And when you, when you kind of go through your life, what is your like, I know this is kind of a weird question, but like, what is your like emotional experience like on a day-to-day basis? What is my emotional experience like? Well, I'm always on a journey of self-improvement. So I always try to, like, I think it's a very important thing to be aware of yourself and, you know, take a step back sometimes and think, is there a better way I can approach this? So, you know, in more recent years, I've been trying to let those emotions flow more freely in day-to-day life instead of just in like a safe environment of a fictional world. But right now, I guess I...

I guess I'm a pretty calm person in like all things considered. I think a lot of it has to do with... So this is going like completely off topic now, but a lot of it has to do with kind of my upbringing, but also I... When I was in Thailand, about 23, I became a monk for like about... like a month to six weeks. And that really helped me, let's say, not train myself, but just be more

aware of my internal emotions and my internal thoughts and helped me really reflect better. So I would say that on a day-to-day basis, I'm a pretty calm, chill person. And I, you know, if there's something that is emotional, I try to let those emotions like well up a bit more, because I feel like a big problem when I was a kid is that I didn't understand the difference between, uh, let's say acknowledging that an emotion exists and kind of like dealing with that, as opposed to just pushing it away and just ignoring that there's a negative emotion there. Wow, that's fascinating. Dude, I have so many questions for you.

Um, okay. So tell me a little bit about becoming a monk. Like, how did that happen? Oh, yeah, sure. I mean, it's like, whenever I say I became a monk, it's like, to me, me it's a pretty normal thing because in Thailand, uh, like, Buddhism like is fucking massive there. Uh, and so a lot of people there are Buddhists. And, you know, when we, when we are bought up, uh, so I was bought up in a Buddhist family. So it's normal for the child, uh, to become a monk

at least twice in their lives. Once when you reach teenagehood and once when you reach adulthood. And, you know, doing that can bring good karma, good blessing to your family, to your parents as well. But I kind of did it for that reason and also for different reasons. I kind of became a monk. So a lot of the times, it's per tradition. So some people just become a monk for one day or two days or something like that. So in this instance, I decided to become a monk for a pretty long time. It was a month to a six, week period. I can't remember exactly how long it's been a very, very long time. And I decided to do it in a point of my life where I felt a little bit lost and I felt like I needed time to really

find out what I truly believed. Because actually, similar to the grandma event, like I had a point where I realized in my early 20s that I didn't know where my beliefs came from. Do I really believe these things because of my own experiences and my own thoughts? Or do I believe these things because someone instilled them to me? Because my parents taught me that way or because my culture taught me that way. And so I kind of realized that, fuck, I don't actually know what I believe, what my my view on life is. And I kind of needed some time to just reset everything and get some time to really develop a good foundations within my own beliefs. And being a monk really truly helped

that. It made me more confident in myself. And yeah, it was kind of like life changing for me. Can you help me understand what you kind of learned or discovered or how you got centered from that experience? Yeah, sure. So like I feel like for me it was like a very extreme measure, but you know, becoming a monk, you have to let go of all attachments like for that time you're a monk. So you have to let go of, you know, technology. You have to let go of family bonds, all debts, all kind of like baggage. And you have to live the simplest life you can possibly live. You know, that's kind of like the philosophy of the Thai Buddhist monk where you just get rid of all attachments and you live the simplest life. And by doing that, it just helped get all of like

the noise that was surrounding me and was around me and really allowed me to reflect on pretty much everything, every little decision that I had made in life to get me to that point. And it helped me to really understand what kind of person I want to be and why I was the person I was at that time. Can you give me an example of what kind of noise you had in your life at that time? I mean, anything could be like, anything could be noise, whether it be societal pressure to, like, get a job or, you know, family drama or some kind of like drama going. on in my own life with relationships. And, you know, there was a lot of worries, and I went through a pretty traumatic experience

just before that as well. And so there was just a lot of emotions that stopped me from really taking the time to really focus purely on myself and focus purely on nothing else and just living the simple life and figuring out what kind of person I am. And what did you think? figure out about the kind of person you are?

What? That's a very loaded question. I figured out that a big thing at that time was I would kind of like try to do anything to please another person. You know, I would go out my way just to seem like

just to be liked or come off in a positive manner to another person and I realized that a lot of the negative, uh, negative relations, uh, relationships I had in my life at that point, uh, stemmed from the need of, I guess, like, positive affirmation for someone that maybe didn't really matter as much as I thought they did in my mind. Um, and it really helped me shape the relationships and the people that I surround myself going forward into the future. I'm like, I'm very blessed now because I think I have a lot of very close friends, very, a lot of friends that I cherish dearly.

And I remember growing up, my mom was like, you'll make the friends of your life in university, the ones that will stick with you to the end. And that just didn't happen. And I thought there was something wrong with me. And then I just realized I was kind of like going about it the wrong way. I guess that's like one of the things I figured out that I kind of like put into my life philosophy going forward. And so how did that shape your relationships going forward? How did that shape my relationship going forward? I would say it gave me more confidence, more confidence just to, how can I word this?

It gave me more confidence in, I know this is going to sound cliche, but it made me more confidence in just being myself. and instead of trying to warp myself to become someone another person would like, I would try to find people that liked me for me, as opposed to kind of like reforming myself in different social interactions to come off positive to the other person. Sure. So it sounds like you used to chase people's acceptance. Yes, yeah, acceptance was the word I was looking for.

Thank you. Yeah. And it sounds like you really just started being comfortable with kind of who you are and acknowledging that people may not accept you, but that's actually okay. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I guess I figured out that like it was not worthwhile to pursue connections and relationships if I didn't feel comfortable just being fully myself around people. And over time, that would only put strain on the relationship because, subconsciously, I would not really want to sustain the relationship, and I was only doing so for some kind of like acceptance and affirmation. And that was the wrong way to approach it.

So, Gart, oftentimes when people are in those situations, they kind of, one of the reasons they can sort of almost become dependent on the acceptance of others is if, like, they're afraid of loneliness, right? So if you kind of think about, okay, if I don't behave this way. then this person like won't hang out with me anymore. Yeah. And is that, so it sounds like that resonates with you? Yes.

So how do you think it is that you? Because like essentially in order to free yourself of needing the acceptance of others, you have to be like okay with the consequences of them leaving you, right? Yes. How did you get to be okay with that? Because I think it's that needing another person that really keeps people stuck. Yeah, it's basically, so, you know, this basically, again, like, came down to, like, during, like, my monk period where I could, it's almost like I could trace the future of this relationship and how I would emotionally be, be emotionally impacted from that. So, you know, I use this technique a lot in my life where there is, you know, there's a lot of things in life where you get, where you look for instant gratification, like that, like the acceptance of.

of another person, but, you know, there's a lot of other things where there's, there's, there's that instant gratification where you know in the short term, it might not be the best decision for you. But how, you know, how I, how I, how I counted that was, uh, I accepted that, you know, I, I understood that in the short term acceptance, uh, gaining acceptance from another person felt good. It felt good. But then I would trace that, I guess, myself to the future. and just imagine the situations going forward and me just not being happy and realizing that it would never fill that loneliness gap

that I was searching to fill and instead just make the loneliness even more expanded just because it would make the loneliness even more expanded just because I was faking like myself to be someone else, so I wouldn't really feel like I'd found someone who I had a connection with. And it was like imagining the long-term effects for that made me realize that in the short term, that is not the way to fix your life. And I always look for, you know, long-term solutions

and long-term things in pretty much every aspect of my life. Yeah, I mean, I think it's fascinating how often we trade feeling good for being unhappy. Yeah. Right? That's a trade we make so much. Yeah. And oftentimes I think it's just really hard to kind of play that tape through to the end and really realize that in a paradoxical way, when I look for someone's acceptance and they accept me and I feel good, it's weird because we don't think about that as like the coin that we pay for that is our own. happiness. Yeah.

And it's really challenging. Yeah. But because we tend to think that feeling good and accepting, the acceptance of others will make us happy where I think what you sort of said, it makes a lot of sense where what it really does to you is makes you more alone. Because then you're not being accepted for who you are. And so, you know, then you kind of have to keep up this act and you feel like you have all these shoes to fill.

And then like, you know, even though you've. bought there, you've bought your space in this relationship for today. You're going to have to pay with more unhappiness tomorrow. Yeah. I think like a good way, like I guess the way I imagined it, but I'm like kind of remembering like the literal visual image that I had when, you know, sometimes like I was meditating and stuff like that. I, it always felt like, you know, before I came a monk, like whenever I'd go out,

whenever I'd socialized, there would be like a mask on me. And sometimes it would be like, like, several layers of masks, and it would get, like, heavier and heavier. And, like, I kind of just, like, imagined just, like, taking, like, the mask off and just, you're naked, you're vulnerable. But if you find someone that accepts you without wearing any masks, that's, that was the kind of connection that I wanted. And I realized and I searched for. And, yeah, that was one of the aspects that I kind of, like, realized afterwards. I was like, okay, let's start off with a clean slate. And, you know, for a time, I was, I definitely did feel lonely.

But in the long term, I look back, I look at myself now. And I can be more grateful for the people around me. I feel like every, every friend I have is a friend that I would, I would show up any time I would do anything for. So I'm very grateful for that. Wow. How do you find friends like that, bro? How do I find friends like that? A lot of, not really trial and error, but just putting yourself out there.

You know, especially when you don't have a lot of close friends, you kind of like get desperate to cling on to any connection you have. And I'm like a pretty heavy introverts. I've always been a pretty heavy introverts. But I wasn't exactly happy being lonely, not having a lot of friends. So what I did was kind of just like trial by fire, try to go to as many events and talk to as many people as possible. Just keep in mind that not everyone I talk to I'm going to vibe with or have a close friendship with. And eventually, if you put yourself out there enough, friendships will just form naturally. It will take time.

It will take efforts. it's not an easy or fast process like we talked about the instant gratification but in the long term it will happen naturally and you'll have a strong foundation of friendships and connections to build off of wow sounds sounds like it takes a lot of effort yeah i mean it to me it took a lot of effort just because like i said i was i was a really heavy introvert i remember growing up i basically never went out and kind of like never socialized never went out to socialize with other people. I just kind of made the assumption that people will come to me eventually in life. And the realization that that just doesn't happen and I have to make an active effort to pursue

this, pursue relationships, pursue friendships, pursue friendships was like a big switch for me. So going back to kind of your original question, you said you were asking about like, emotional connection to anime why do you think it's easier for you to emotionally connect to anime i think just because to me it feels like a safe space you know to me when you're watching a fictional piece of work because it's fictional it feels like it feels like there won't be any judgments or anything like that maybe um you know like i said i you know grew up in a culture where uh you know showing emotions was like not like kind of like frowned upon maybe not frowned upon but definitely definitely not openly accepted as much as it is today um so i guess like fiction and anime

in particular just became like my safe haven just to be like hey this is this is the place where you can show emotions you can feel emotions and you don't have to feel guilty or worry about judgment from it why not what makes that safe Because it's not real, right? It's, it's fiction. And it's, it sounds counterintuitive, but because it's not real, you can, to me, it felt more real than a lot of, you know, a lot of real life events. So it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's weird, it's a weird counterintuitive, uh, way that my emotions worked. I think, uh, I think that's, that makes a lot of sense. Can I, uh, one thing, um, uh, garn, is, um,

You seem to be going in and out of focus a little bit. I'm not quite sure why, but now you're in focus. Okay, sorry. But for some reason, it seems to... No, it's okay. Okay. For some reason, sometimes we'll focus on the door behind you. But so kind of going back to this, what makes it unsafe to feel emotions in the real world?

Like... I guess I had like this subconscious fear of being judged for burying. myself out there. Okay. I think that was, yeah, I think that's the big thing if I had to put it into words. Yeah, so subconscious fear, but it also sounds like conditioning, right? So you were, it sounds like growing up, you were very actively taught not to express emotion. Yeah. Like, do you remember what it was like when you cried growing up? Like, do you remember crying? I'll be honest, I don't remember crying at all before the age of like 20. Obviously, like, you know, as a baby and stuff like that,

but I generally don't remember crying at all. And the first time I remember crying was what I told you about. And I was like, oh, I can actually do it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I think it's fascinating. But first of all, this is a pattern that I see a lot where people feel very emotionally

connected to anime. I've even worked with some people who I would almost say are like addicted. to anime-induced emotion. Yeah. Where, like, they feel numb in the rest of their life. And one of the reasons that they kind of get, quote, unquote, addicted to anime is anime is like the time and space where they actually get to feel. They actually, like, feel alive and connected to these, like, stories and narratives. I think there's a lot of different pieces to that.

The first is that if you look at anime, anime has larger than life, emotional, emotional, emotional, evoking experiences, right? So like the colors are super bright. The crying that happens in anime is like really anguished, right? Yeah. And like it's very, very, you know, there's music involved. There's like a lot of kind of like building up to stuff. So if you sort of think about the medium itself, it is very, very high octane emotion.

Yeah. So I think that there's a group of people out there who are kind of emotionally expressed. The reason that I asked you about a gender component is because there's good evidence that especially men are emotionally like conditioned to be numb. So there's something called normative male alexothymia. So alexothymia is essentially like emotional color blindness. So and this is true of a lot of women too. A lot of women can be elixothymic. But I think from a cultural perspective, men are more often taught to be like emotionally suppressed.

Yeah. And so when you have a certain amount of suppression, right, your grandmother passed away. And you almost described like a kind of like a depersonalizing experience, which is actually a trauma response of like it kind of feels like a dream. Like you feel really numb. So what's going on in your brain when you feel numb? Your brain is actually actively suppressing all emotions. So there's some like circuit on high that is saying no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no emotions. and because you've been conditioned to, you know, you shouldn't cry and all this other kind of stuff.

And so then what happens is you've got these like emotionally numb men. It could be women too, anyone who's kind of a lexathymic, who then has this medium, which gives you, like you said, kind of a safe space, right? So first of all, when you were crying, like were you by yourself? Yeah, I was by myself. Right? So that's like the first thing is why does anime make it safe for us to feel emotion? my money would be that if you were like at an anime convention and watching the same thing with like hundreds of people there would be a lot more emotional suppression going on yeah and so it the safety of it is that you can have this emotional experience kind of like on your own with no one watching i think it's very very emotionally evoking so you your brain is toning down all the emotion and the anime on on the flip side is like ramping it up a lot which is why i think a lot of people

we'll get emotional release through anime because you need that almost that like high octane kind of emotional like climax or catharsis or whatever to really feel and then I think there's another component which is just that human beings a lot of the emotions that we experience are through like narrative and for the same reason that we have for thousands of years human beings have been telling stories right and like what's the reason for that it's because those stories like we'll connect with us on an emotional level. Whether this is kind of like, anime is full of this stuff, right?

All these archetypes and tropes like heroes journey. And I mean, you've got a lot of that shit in your life where like, you know, going monk mode and discovering yourself and then like this kind of weird like redemption arc where, you know, you were inducted to some secret Kenjutsu or whatever, like when you were a monk and then you lived the anime dream,

right? Someone could make an anime about your life. Oh, no, no, no. It is not that interesting. I see you've got a ring on your finger, so I'm curious if you found a relationship that is romantic and fulfilling. Oh, yes. I got married last year. And yeah, I mean, a lot of what I'm talking about now,

I am so like I couldn't have found a more perfect partner in the world. And I believe a big part of it is something important to me, to me in a relationship is balance and teaching, teaching each other something and balancing each other out. So my partner is like maybe on the surface, like pretty much the complete opposite of me. She, you know, she's someone who is not afraid to let her emotions well up and kind of like is not afraid to go with her gut feeling a lot of times and gut instincts.

And I was always been someone who's been very calm and very calculated. but she's taught me so much about managing, you know, managing emotions, letting it be okay to show emotions, to get emotions out. I mean, the first time I ever cried in front of someone else was, like, I think in front of her. It's interesting you mentioned that before, just because I remember so many instances in public where something emotional would happen and, like, my eyes would start watering up and it would get to a point. And I will get emotional. And then suddenly it's like just on the cusp of crying, something would like flick in my brain. And then my body would just be like, nope, this isn't happening now. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'm like reset back to zero now.

Yeah. So if you kind of look at that, right? So what's happening is you're getting some kind of like, probably I would say cortical response. Maybe not cortical actually. But you're getting some kind of response that shuts down the emotion. And I don't know if this kind of makes sense, but the more, the more, the more, the greater the flood of tears that is imminent, the stronger that that response has to be. Which is paradoxically why like at funerals, right? So like there's a huge flood of tears coming. And so you're going to even like disconnect even harder to the point where you're even in kind of this dreamlike state. And then I think what happens is all those tears are stored up. And then when you watch an anime, you're kind of like, there's some. much emotion packed in there that it just opens the floodgates because then the other thing is

you're by yourself. I think that's like we were talking about this. What's safe about it. What's safe about it is if you sort of think about it, having most emotionally connective experiences require other human beings. But the whole point is that if you're like emotionally, if you're like an emotional fortress and you don't want to be vulnerable and you want to be protected, like you can't, it's hard to evoke that emotion. And that's where I think anime comes in. Because there's a bunch of emotion and you can kind of do it in the safety of your own home. So you can like sit there and like you can ball and like you're kind of like even then I would imagine at the very beginning you don't want a ball. Right?

You feel that shut off switch kind of turning on. But then you kind of let it not shut off. You kind of hold it at bay and then it starts coming out and it starts to feel really good. And then you check the door to make sure no one's going to like walk in on you. Yeah. You know. And I remember like kind of really. realizing like later in life, I think like how important that is for me.

Because by having like this emotional shut off, I think I went through a lot of my life where I just felt disconnected. You know, I just sometimes you felt disconnected from people or just disconnected from the stuff happening around you. And I feel like being more emotionally aware has helped me really become a better person. if like, you know, I feel like I've become a much better person, much more balanced person, because of it. And, yeah, a lot of this has, you know, been my wife kind of like showing me, not like not really showing me, but helping me to understand that it's okay. And help me to get comfortable with it. And, you know, I couldn't be more, I couldn't be more grateful for my wife for that. It sounds like an amazing, it's a woman? Yes, yes, a woman.

It sounds like she's an amazing woman. Oh, yes. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I truly believe that, you know, I'm not sure if I believe in soulmates, but I believe a soulmate isn't someone who is perfect for you right as you meet. But I believe what's truly special and truly important is finding someone who you are willing to, change yourself to become a better person

for that person and that person reciprocates that by doing it. It's a real anime level shit right here. Is this? I just this is just like I mean, you know, this is just how I envisioned

how to have a happy life. I think like the end goal of everything and I think the end goal of all of this, I just want to be fucking happy man. Like I just want to be happy with myself and my life around me. And And yeah, I'm just constantly on a journey to be the happiest person I can be. Why?

Why? Life is just better if you're happy. Life is better if you're happy. And, you know, your life experience will always change. Your life situation will always change. But if you're happy, the world is just brighter. And you feel good. Just being alive and existing, I guess.

Yeah. Dude, this is, I think you've really internalized a lot of anime, because a lot of what you're saying, I can absolutely see as like parts of, you know, there's some after the climax, you have a couple people that are like sitting on a park bench and musing about life and being happy and. Yeah. And I mean, I think a lot of this does also come down to my, a lot of like my Buddhist upbringing as well. A lot of it is kind of like finding like a lot of Buddhism, especially the ones I taught, is about finding. internal peace and internal happiness. And a lot of the teachings that we have in the way of life kind of like try to guide you in that direction.

So I guess maybe seeing like a lot of these morals that, you know, you say you talk about anime, a lot of these morals that are seen in anime kind of like resonated with me very, very deeply, just because that was already internalized about how he should live life. and what kind of person you should aim to be anyway. And can you tell me a little bit about that? Like what kinds of, you know, where does happiness come from? How do you seek it?

Oh, that is a loaded question that I do not have the answer for. But what is a loaded question? A loaded question is something that maybe I haven't thought too deeply about and would could possibly branch off into about 10 different things depending on how my mind works at that time but

I mean what is happiness to me happiness is finding self-fulfillment and I don't know if gratification is the right word it's a struggle to find like the right words to describe what it is but to me if I you know if I can't find

the exact right word to describe it, the feeling I get is just feeling like your soul is full, if that makes sense. That's kind of like the feeling that I get when I think happiness and fulfillment. You know, it's interesting. Are you familiar with this term dukkah? I'm not, no. Okay. So I'm not sure what language, you know, what this tradition is in.

I imagine it's Thai. Yes, Thai, yes. And so do you, is there a word for like the basic? like, you know, when the Buddha was talking about, like, what's, you know, what's suffering? Like, what word do you all use for that? Um, so I'm not sure because a lot of Buddhism was, it's like in Sanskrit and Pali, uh, which I've never really understood. Okay. Uh, the only, the closest thing to like, um, what I was talking about is like a Thai concept called Jai,

which is like the heart. And I think a lot of Thai culture revolves around the concept of, of, Jay. It's like the heart. So for example, like, you know, when we refer to something that's, if you're impatient, it's Jailan, which literally just means hot heart. So a lot of my internalizations about how I deal with emotions, I guess, like internally comes from how I view the heart, if that makes sense. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So it's sort of like depending on the state of the heart. Yes, yes. You know, different fluctuations of the heart. will result in impatience or fear or yes yeah yeah makes a lot of sense so i mean you know you're

talking about kind of fulfillment yeah and it's interesting because if you look at the sunscript word for suffering it's ducca and literally what duka translates to is empty space right so it's like i kind of think about suffering is anything it's the gap it's it's the gap so if you kind of think about, oh, I heard this anime was really epic. And so then I sit down to watch it and I'm like, it's like pretty good, but it's not as epic as everyone is saying. So if you sort of think about in that moment, there's discontent, right? You're like, eh, I'm a little bit disappointed. So what is that disappointment? It's the gap between your expectations and your experience. And if you really look at like what is the source of any unhappiness, you'll always find a gap. And when I hear you kind of talk about

fulfillment, what does it mean to be fulfilled? It means that there's an absence of a gap. There's no gap. That's full. Right. Whether it's a romantic relationship or whatever, like the relationship, even though it isn't perfect and there are problems, there's no gap. Does that kind of make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes total sense. It's funny because the way you just described it is basically how I envision it in my mind as well. Sometimes I feel like there is a gap in my life. And, you know, gaps, you know, even if you can be completely fulfilled at one point in your life, that doesn't mean that as you grow older, you get more life experience that a new gap is going to appear somewhere.

So I believe that my life has been a journey to try and fill in those gaps as best as I can to be fulfilled and be happy. So I think you actually hit the nail on the head on that. Yeah. How does it feel to continuously fill gaps? Ah, I mean, it's, uh, it takes effort. I wouldn't say it's tiring, but it takes effort. It takes a constant, uh, it takes constant energy.

Um, but I believe the feeling you get when you are able to fill in one of those gaps, that's, that's kind of like, that's always the high that I always chase in life. Um, and I will continue chasing for. the rest of my life, I think. Well, I would hope not. What'd you mean? Well, so earlier you were talking about, like, you know, self-improvement is really important to you.

Mm-hmm. But, you know, it's kind of interesting because, like, what you're sort of describing is that, yeah, there's, like, a constant gap that you're trying to fill. So even if you kind of go, like, a level meta, there's a gap of unfulfilled gaps. Does that kind of make sense? Like, you're always like, and then, like, you've, You feel good, right? When you fill in the gap, you feel good. But as you said, it's temporary. And then it requires, like, more effort to fill the next gap and more effort to fill the next gap and more effort.

You know, I'm not saying that it increases with each one, but it's always requiring. And so if you kind of think about it, there's like a, there's like a level of a hunger, which I don't know if you actually have or not. But that's a kind of like one level, like you're discontent with having a gap to begin with. Yeah. That's interesting that you say because I guess, I guess this conversation is helping me find out a lot about myself as well. Sometimes what we can hear. Yeah, I've never been the type of person who has felt comfortable sitting still. You know, I don't know what it is, but I always like to be working towards something.

I guess that's what drives me. And I guess part of that, part of that drive, I mean, I like the way you were to now, I think having that drive to do something is like, is, you know, filling in a gap for myself. I feel I feel good working towards something. And if I'm in a point in life where nothing seems to be happening, then, then like actually feel unfulfilled. I actually feel like I don't really have a purpose or something I'm working towards. So I think, yeah, subconsciously, I'm always trying to be happening. to work towards something, doing something new. Yeah. And how does it feel to be constantly improving? I like it. I like it. I can see that. Yeah, I can, you know, I like being on a journey. I don't think that I don't think a perfect person exists in this world.

But I believe striving towards perfection can only make you a better person. And I'm not saying like perfection, like as a concept that, you know, I have to be the perfect, I'm not like a perfectionist to be like, I have to be the perfect person and anything less I am unsatisfied with. But having, like having something you work towards is to me something that gives me fulfillment and happiness as well. And purpose in a lot of ways. I think there's a, there's a really subtle. So sometimes when I hear that people are like constantly into self-improvement, there are kind of two shades of people who are, into self-improvement.

One is it almost can feel like an addiction where I need to be better, I need to be better, I need to be better. And if you kind of look at like the addiction to self-improvement, it can come from a fundamental lack of acceptance with yourself. Right. Like I'm not good enough. And if I get better, I will then be good enough. But since that feeling comes from you, it doesn't actually come from any external thing.

No amount of accomplishment makes the feeling go away. Because it's not really coming from the lack of external accomplishment. It's coming from you. But I don't see that in you. What I actually see in you is something that's very different, even though it looks very similar, which is that it sounds like devotion to the process of improvement is what really helps you feel fulfilled. And I would even venture that failure doesn't feel like a setback for you. No.

And there's a huge difference because in one, I see you're about to say something, so I'll be quiet in a second. But in one case, you know, people, whether they feel good or not really depends on whether they accomplish the thing. Whereas on the flip side, being devoted to self-improvement is sort of like an action as opposed to a goal, I think is what really can lead to a lot of contentment. And oftentimes people get the two confused because they look very similar because both people are devoted to self-improvement. The big difference is for one person, their feeling of contentment depends on the improvement itself.

Whereas for the other person, they're actually free from the actual improvement. And it's kind of the devotion to the attempt that their happiness comes from. Yeah. Honestly, I think I was going to say something and you pretty much said everything I wanted to say. Yeah, I mean, if I don't want to be a better person because it's like, you know, like a constant goal. I just like I feel like

if I lose that drive and if I forget what a good person is or you know, if I ever forget that then that's a slope to like how I'm going to say it's like fall back down the hill and

so I've completely lost my trade of thought. Sorry. Um, What I'm trying to say is I'm always trying to be self-aware of myself, right? I always try to take a step back and reflect on myself as a person. And I think doing that is a healthy process just to make sure that, one, you think that you're on the right path. And two, to kind of like figure out if you're really happy.

I think self-reflection is very important because unless, you, you know, I met some people who always live in the moment and never look back. And I think if you never look back, then you can never tell how far you've come. And I think that's a, you know, I think that's a very important aspect of anyone who's on a life journey. Yeah. Dude, really heavy anime tropes, bro. Is it? Yeah, it's great. I think it's, I think this is part of the reason that anime is so resonant with people, right? Because I, I think it mirrors our experience of life. But I mean, I think you're talking about a journey and really being able to look back and see how far you've come and being kind of content with the bumps along the way.

Yeah. Yeah. While we're in this topic, though, I was curious because I guess like while we're talking on the topic of like holes in your life and things that maybe you're not like completely fulfilled with. One thing I've always battled with is the concept of like a hundred. home, right? Because, you know, as someone who has Thai parents, born and raised in England, like throughout a lot of my life, I've always, I've always had a lot of people talk about, you know, going home or this place feels like home. And I guess like, I'm reaching the point now in my life where I'm just like, I should probably try to think about deadling down

somewhere because I've lived in England, I've lived in Japan, Thailand, China for a bit as well and I think a lot of that was subconsciously me trying to find a place that I felt like I belonged because it's like it's like weird because you know it's not it's not like I don't like I'm uncomfortable in somewhere like England or Thailand for example but for example when I go back to Thailand I love it

it feels like I have family there, it feels so good. I almost feel at home, but I feel like because I grew up abroad, like when I speak Thai, I have like a slight British accent when I speak Thai, so people can tell I grew up abroad. I will never fully be viewed as, as like, someone Thai. And, you know, growing up in England as well, I grew up in Brighton, which is now a very progressive city. But when I was growing up, there weren't very many Asian, like,

many Asian immigrant kids surrounding me. So I definitely felt out of place in England as well. And I think subconsciously, I've always been searching for a place where I felt comfortable. But I, you know, still to this day, I'm still trying to find a place where

where I can truly call my home and I will be happy settling down with, settling down at, sorry. Is there a question there? Yeah. I guess the question is, Is this a normal feeling to have? Is this something I should really be kind of like trying to fill this gap in my life?

Or am I just looking at it the wrong way, do you think? Yes to all of the above. Okay. So, I mean, I have an answer for you. It's one that I feel 100% confident about and is probably the most wrong thing I'm going to say over the course. of this conversation. Okay. So I think the first thing to understand is that, is it a normal feeling?

It is for you. I mean, your karma, your karma is very unique. Like, you were not born to have a home. You were born to find a home. Right. So, like, I think this is a, should you pursue it, 100%. And I think you're going to find your home, but I don't think that you're going to, I think like finding your home is part of your journey for you, especially.

So you're like an expat, grew up. So Thailand's not your home. Japan isn't, I mean, sorry, Britain, it sounds like Brighton isn't your home. Yeah. And so I think that you should absolutely find a home because that's the gap that you feel, right? Like you don't, you want it. Yeah. But I don't think that this is the tricky thing. I think, are you thinking about you're wrong? I think you are in the sense that I don't know how much of finding a home is like doing internal work or improving. I think it's just circumstance. So you're, you're also like a nomad. Like your karma is. nomadic.

Right. And I think you're going to keep on nomading around until you find your home. And you'll know when you get there. And it could be Japan. Like what, like how do you feel about Japan? Um, I mean, I love Japan. Uh, I, I, you know, it's, it's very, very amazing country to live in. I love the culture there.

Um, it's definitely not a place that I think I could call home in the, long term. It's, you know, it's, it's this feeling in Japan where I'm, I think like, I'm accepted, but it's not where I belong, if that makes sense. Yeah. It's, and I want to find somewhere where I belong. Um, that's, that's kind of like what, you know, the nomad kind of life of like what I've been searching for where, and all these places, I am accepted, but there's something in me where I feel like I don't truly belong there. Um, And yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's kind of like, it's, it's, I don't know if like I'm being too picky because, you know, there are, like, there are aspects I love in everywhere I've lived where I love one aspect. Um, but there's other aspects where, you know, I don't, I don't really like. Uh, like, for example, in England, I, I love all my friends there. I feel, you know, culturally, uh, I feel I vibe with England a lot and a lot of my closest friends are in England. I just never felt like I truly belonged in England personally.

I much prefer the climate and the way of thinking of Thailand. And I definitely do feel at home there in a lot of aspects. But, you know, like I said, even though I am Thai, a lot of my interactions in Thailand have had that, like, that like, I guess, slight barrier just because they acknowledge me as tie, but they don't truly see me as like someone tie there. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, very similar in Japan as well. So I mean, is home a place? I don't know. That's a very good question. I think maybe home, I've been grappling with that question a lot. Is home a place or is home like a feeling?

because this is going to sound like super cheesy, but like the closest thing I have a feeling to like a home now is like when I feel like I'm at home, it doesn't really matter where it is, but say I've traveled home and every time I went on a journey, my mom would always cook me the same meal just to be like, hey, welcome back, here's mom's cooking again.

And like the feeling I get was just like every time I take like that first bite or like I smell her cooking when she's just like when I open the door and I come home for the first time I see family for the first time in years or months or years sometimes I'm like that's like that's like the feeling I get where I truly realize oh okay I'm home now this this this is a good feeling um and I guess yeah that's kind of like the feeling I am searching for that you know it's not let's say that that is more internal and not dependent on you know, seeing family and things like that. Does that make sense?

Yeah, but I'm confused. You're saying it doesn't depend on seeing family? Because when you describe home to me, it sounds like you're talking about family. Yeah, I guess, I guess so. I guess family is a very important thing to me. So I, yeah, I guess, I guess family is a massive thing to me in terms of having a home. Could I live with my family? That's a different question.

But yeah. So I mean, I mean, my Japanese is rusty, but Thadaima, right? Tanima, yes. And so that's what you're looking for. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think there are a couple things at play here. The first is that literally it sounds like you're looking for home in the wrong place

in the sense that you're looking for it in a place. I don't know that it's in a place, especially when I hear you talk. I mean, it sounds like home to you is a particular meal or things like that. And when you say you don't know if you can live with it, you're not, you're only to live with your family. Like, you got a new one coming, right? So you get to craft your own. And I suspect that five to 10 years from now, like, I think you're sort of like in, I think

you're totally fine, but I also think you're kind of like looking in the wrong places where you're like, okay, I don't feel at home in Thailand. So that that's your answer, right? It doesn't mean that you need to make yourself. fit in Thailand or you need to make yourself fit in Britain or you need to make yourself fit in Japan. If none of those things feel right to you, that's not your home. Right. And so what's going to happen over time is you're going to keep looking in different places. And one of two things happens when people are, don't find a home. They keep looking everywhere until they find their

home, which sometimes happens. Like place number three, place number four. You look at you're about to say something. Go for it. I won't. Oh, no, no, no. I was, I was just burping. Sorry. And so either you'll find it. Like maybe it'll be the states or, you know, some other location or whatever. And then the other option is that, you know, what's going to happen is you're going to like be looking for it, looking for it, looking for it. You're going to do your podcast, whatever. You're going to come home one day and your wife is going to be there and y'all are going to hang out or something like that. And then it's going to feel like home. But I don't know that you need to go looking for personal improvement, which is I'm afraid something that you may be doing.

Like, oh, like, I need to like allow this to be my home, right? Like I need to. Like, I need to, to like become a better human being and accept no like that's you know no and then it's not a place and it's not personal improvement it's something that you're going to grow into like i don't know if you're thinking about having kids but if you like have kids and stuff like you know you kind of work your way into home i think a lot of the reason a lot of these questions has been cropping up is because i didn't really put much thoughts into it um and then you know i'm 33 now and the idea of kids is something that we've definitely been playing around with. Not too soon, but something that we have been aware of. And that's kind of, that's kind of like, I guess, where a lot of this,

like, anxiety comes from to be like, oh, shit, like, I need to, like, you know, it's fine living the nomad life now when I'm a YouTuber and I have all this freedom and stuff. But, you know, when I have responsibilities, when I have a kid, I'm like, okay, I want a stable life for my kid. So it's kind of like trying to find that balance that I would be happy raising a family in. Yeah. So I think, you know, my experience, and you know, I've worked with a lot of people who have kids.

I don't know how else to say that. But I think that a lot of times before you have kids and before you have a home, you know, you're like looking for stuff, but it's kind of you're trying to figure this out with like a blindfold. Like, I think a big experience of life is that your kids will carve out the home for you. So, like, a lot of times, especially when it comes to kids, like, we think that we have to set everything up before the kid comes along. But, I mean, the kid is going to screw everything up anyway. Like, there's just no way that you can adequately prepare to be a parent.

You just can't do it. Right. In my opinion, anyway. But the good news is that you don't have to. Right. And that, like, you know, you'll, I have a feeling, hopefully, that you'll carve out. your home. It's not something that you're going to find pre-form, not you, unfortunately. Yeah. You know, your family isn't, it's not your existing family. You're going to carve out this

new family. You're going to carve out if you decide to have kids, it'll be a place. It'll start to grow on you over time and you'll settle down. You'll have roots. Because right now what I'm hearing is that you're looking for a perfect place. Like, oh, this is the problem in Thailand. I mean, a home isn't perfect. It's, you know, there's lots of problems with it, as you'll discover. Okay. And then that's just a thing. though, is that it's the place that you accept in spite of its flaws, whereas a lot of times when we're looking for a home, we're looking for that

place where that feels right. And it feels right because you break it in. It's like a pair of shoes. Like you wear them a couple times and then they feel right. Oh, yeah. Thank you very much. I mean, I never expected to talk about any of this

coming on if I'll be on this. This is just something that just like kind of like came to me as we were talking about. Great. previous things that we were, you know, mentioning before. I can't remember, yeah, I can't even remember how this conversation started at the beginning. Well, we started, I mean. Yeah, go ahead.

Sorry. Oh, no. I was just curious. I mean, so we, you would ask me this question about like emotions and anime. And I, I mean, if you've got other questions like that, I'd love to hear them. Yeah, I mean, um, let me think. Because like, I don't have any like concrete questions now because I, I, I tried to think about what I, you know, what I really wanted to talk about on this podcast.

Or I don't know if this is even a podcast or just just, I don't know either. Shooting the shit. I don't know. This is involved into something that, you know, I definitely wasn't expecting. But I've been very, very grateful about. Yeah. I mean, like, right now, right now I'm just like happy to be happy in life. You know, we, we talked about being fulfilled.

I honestly took this opportunity just I think a big thing is you know, help to understand myself better I remember you said about before like three conversations ago about guys being conditioned to not show emotions and something about that really like resonated with me because with like this new friend group

that we with like this new friend group that, you know, I've happily built up over the years. I think we had, like, just like a casual hangout two years ago. And the topic of therapy just, like, came up. And, you know, every guy in this group suddenly just, like, raise their hand to be like, yeah, I've gotten therapy before as well. And I've been friends with these guys for years.

And we had just never talked about this. And I, like, I remember telling them, like, guys, we've known each other for how many years and we're just bringing this up now? What, like, what the hell? How did this happen? And, like, I'm wondering, do you think it's like, is it, is it a cultural thing? Or is it something that is embedded in all cultures? Or is it purely, purely something that's hardwired into us?

Is what? What is the it? The feeling of, like, us having to, like, close up on our emotions. That's a great question. So I think there are a couple of different answers. The first is that there's absolutely a conditioning component. So for whatever reason, and this isn't, you know, is it more true of men on average, sure, but I think that there are plenty of women or non-binary people who grow up in circumstances where they too are taught not to display emotion.

I think it looks a little bit different. So, for example, a lot of the women that I work with are, are, taught to equally, or they're sort of taught that there's certain, like, safe emotions that you can display, but you fucking better not display any of the unsafe emotions. Right. So, like, you can't demonstrate discontent or disrespect for authority or frustration or, like, you know, you're allowed to cry if you're a girl, like, in some circumstances, but, like, you're not allowed to get upset. So I see this a lot with women that I work with that are in kind of high-powered careers where, like, getting angry is like, oh, this person is a bitch and all this kind of stuff. So it, it's a lot. It

It's slightly different, but there's absolutely a conditioning component. Second thing is that I think that somewhere along the way, now this is where things get weird, but I've started to realize recently that there are a lot of biases in the way that we deal with emotions. And I think a lot of those biases are really rooted in our... So, for example, a lot of what we talk about in terms of dealing with your emotions is talking about your emotions, right? So there's a verbal, there's this assumption that verbalizing emotions is processing them. But that I've started, I've really been looking into a lot of really interesting research about the origins of psychotherapy and realize that there's actually like a pretty big bias in psychotherapy that is towards women probably. I'm not 100% sure about this.

But if you look at studies, for example, like men are reluctant to engage in couples therapy. And why is that? If you ask men, it's because they feel like they're disadvantaged. And so if you kind of talk to them, you're like, well, what do you mean you're disadvantaged? Well, like, when I go into therapy, my significant other assuming a heteronormative kind of perspective, like knows how to talk to the therapist and like articulate their emotions. And I don't know how to do that. So we go into this therapy session.

My partner is like talking about their emotions in a way that like the therapist resonates with them. They're like, oh, wow, you're doing really good. Like their partner is doing a good job and I don't know how to say that. Like I don't know how to articulate it. And so I kind of feel like I'm at a disadvantage. I feel like the bad guy in therapy because I can't articulate my feelings. And instead, like, you know, does that kind of make sense? So there's lots of research that shows that men feel uncomfortable in therapy.

Men are more or less likely to engage in therapy. And so the question is why. So it could be because of the way that we're conditioned. But I think a bigger part that we haven't really touched on, which I'm suspecting in some light evidence for, is that if you look at the origins of psychotherapy, They were really, you know, like Freud is like a big part of that. And I think a lot of times when we were developing the field of psychiatry, we were trying to figure out, okay, how do emotions work?

And we went and we talked to a lot of humans. And then what happens is based on the humans that we talked to, we determined that, okay, this is how you deal with emotions. The problem is that the humans that we talked to weren't a representative sample. So if you look at the majority of people who engage in psychotherapy, it's actually like 60 to 70% women. Even, I'm not sure about this. I've been trying to find statistics on this, but I think the majority of Freud's clients or patients, I think were women, but I could be wrong about that.

And so what happens is when we're originally developing our idea of, okay, how do we deal with emotions? This is the science of dealing with emotions. But there could be some kind of intrinsic bias that men didn't really participate in the early studies. They weren't the majority of patients. So when we concluded, this is how you deal with emotions, we were actually looking at a population. of 60 to 70% women. Right.

Or even if it wasn't 60 to 70% women, the men that were talking about in that, in like old Austria or wherever Freud was may have been a subset of men that were responsive to like Freud's methodologies, which were highly verbal in nature.

Right. But I think a big part of this is there's this assumption that articulation or using verbal stuff to manage emotions is how you do it. Whereas I sometimes wonder having worked with a lot of men and women, whether that's actually how we do it.

So with dudes, like, we're more physical, right? And that could be conditioning. Who knows maybe it's genetic. Right. You know, I recently, like, took part in something called, like, an anger ceremony, which is, like, a bunch of dudes, like, went out into the wilderness. And then, like, we split up and we walked off into the woods. Right. And then you, like, scream or you just let your emotions out in privacy.

And then you come back and you all cry and you. hug it out and you pat each other on the back and like something about that is very like healing. But that's very different from anything we would imagine in psychotherapy. But I don't know that. So I've started really questioned having worked a lot with men and we're talking about dealing with emotions, not necessarily pathology. So when we come to pathology and mental illness, which there's a whole stuff conversation

about. But in that way, psychotherapy may be the most effective evidence-based approach. But I think that there is just some fundamental assumption. that we have in relation to, okay, why are men alexathymic? Well, there could, it may not, there just may be like more to it. So, for example, like, if you tell a dude, like, yeah, I got dumped, how do you feel, bro? It feels like I got kicked in the nuts. And we know what that means.

So there's like physicality to the language. We can't articulate what the emotion is. We can't name it. We can't pick it out. But we are able to resonate with each other. So I think there's a lot more complexity. to vulnerability and sort of what we share and what we don't share. I'm also not entirely sure.

Like, I think it's healthy to share, but I'm not sure that men like need to share. Right. To be blunt. Okay. So I kind of hear this from my wife where, you know, I'll catch up with a friend of mine, you know, like that I haven't seen in four or five years. And she's like, did you talk about their divorce? And I'm like, no, we didn't talk about the divorce. She's like, but you haven't seen them in so long.

And like, he got divorced. Like, how could you? And I'm like, no. Like, we talked about video games because that. That's what we do. That resonates me so much. We don't need to talk. Like, I know he's divorced.

He knows he's divorced. You know? And then like the way that we connect and heal and the way that we bond is by like going back to a time that's happier. And like I'm done. And now being a fucking psychiatrist, I can analyze it and can say like, yeah, I'm like showing him that I still accept him that nothing has changed. I don't think any less of him.

Yeah. I still think he's a good human being that I value him the same that I'm going to be there for him in the way that I was 15 years ago, and this is the way that we do it. Right, right. And that makes a lot of sense. You brought up something that I kind of like want to ask more about. It's what did you call like the anger camp or something? Yeah, a ceremony.

The anger ceremony. Because one thing that I'm not exactly like struggled with. I think struggle is the wrong word, but I've tried to be aware of is anger. and kind of like the management of anger. And I know a lot of people may have issues, like managing the anger to the point where, you know, get it under control. I don't know if, I don't even know if this is an issue. I just wanted to ask your insight about it because I don't know if I have, like, the opposite problem where I so very rarely do get angry, if that makes sense. To the point where sometimes I feel a little, like maybe even like, A.

million when, you know, something happens and people get angry and, like, I, sometimes I get asked, aren't you angry? Are you angry? And I'm, like, I'll be honest and be like, honestly, not really. And sometimes I feel like maybe I, you know, maybe I should be more angry than I am, but sometimes it just, like, doesn't bother me or at least I just don't get angry. And I don't know, I don't know if, I don't know if that's a normal thing or if that's even. a healthy thing, maybe like a little anger is good. What do you think? Have you always been not angry? I've always very rarely gotten angry. I can't remember when, but I just didn't like the feeling of being angry. And I think my, like, I don't know if this is something that happened instantly or

something that was like conditioned over time, but I just never liked the feeling of being angry. and I just like something my brain was just like you should not put your energy into like it's not it's not the best put your energy into that emotion because it's you don't get anything positive out of that but I guess what I found now growing older is that I feel weird for sometimes maybe being like a bit too chill and not getting angry enough even even if I should

I'm not sure if a little bit of anger is healthy or not so it sounds like early on you concluded that anger was a bad thing to feel. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I guess that's like just to me. I'm sorry? I guess just to me that being angry just wasn't a pleasant experience

or a pleasant emotion, if that makes sense. Yeah, and how did you come to that conclusion? I think maybe some of the times where I got angry before, it never, I never felt good afterwards, I guess. And I never felt good after being angry. I think... I'm not sure what happened,

or if this is like a culmination of different events. But this is going to sound so weird, but I remember being in a league game once. And... And... And I remember being in a league game when I was, like, addicted to league at, like, one point in my life.

and I remember the game just wasn't going well and I just felt anger and then I stopped playing the game but that anger just like didn't subside and I'm just like why am I feeling this? Why am I letting this get in the way of like everyday life?

And every time I felt that lingering anger not like I use league which obviously a fucking meme but even in like other aspects that have happened to me I just hated the lingering anger and holding on to this lingering anger. So I kind of like maybe subconsciously

kind of like averted the anger going forward more and more as I grew older. Yeah, so is that a problem? Is it a problem? Is it like, is it healthy to have a little bit of anger to show a little bit of anger? Or is this something I need to be aware of? What do you think?

logically I think it might be healthy to kind of like go some anger or I guess maybe maybe not so much anger but at least to release some anger um like you said that's the so I asked you what you think you said logically it sounds like it's good to show and feel some bang what about yeah what's what's your what's the other part of your answer what part of your answer is not logical that makes sense? You understand my question? Yeah, like the reason I phrase it like that, like logically, yeah, I think what is the other part of you think? The other part of me, uh, is my heart, which, which tells me, you know, I, which, which tells me, man, I don't want to put in the effort of, like, I don't want to put in the effort to like deal with this. So that's, that's like,

that's like the two sides of me. And I don't know whether I should listen to my mind or whether I should listen to my heart. And so then the way you're resolving that problem is by asking me. Yeah, right? Exactly. And so you're hoping that I'm going to give you an answer that'll solve your internal conflict. Yeah, maybe some insight or something like that. Sure.

So my first thing is that, can I think for a second? Sure. It's a great, great question. Okay. So you're asking a theoretical question about anger, right? Should I get in touch with my anger? Should I let myself feel it? It sounds like there are negative consequences when you've been angry. The whole League of Legends thing, it sounds like it hasn't served you well. I'd be curious whether your parents punished you for being angry when you were growing up. I think they kind of instilled in me the kind of same philosophy, which is anger is bad. I think a lot of it comes down to that as well. Were either your parents angry? No, okay. Actually, this is...

Okay, okay. Now that we're talking about it, a lot of things are rushing back right now. So the reason I ask this, the real reason, is because even when someone does something wrongfully to me or my family,

which has happened in the past, I remember, like, the emotional response wouldn't necessarily be, anger, it would just be to kind of like shut down. At least I know that that was like, that was my mum's default emotional reaction whenever some things happened to her in the past. And I think I saw that. And I saw how she handled it. And I think I've kind of maybe subconsciously internalized it. And it's kind of like, affects me. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing,

except in the case where I do think maybe someone did wrong me or the people around me and my first internal emotional reaction is not to get angry, but just to like analyze, I guess. And I don't know if that's a healthy thing to do. Sure you do. You know. Do I know? Yeah.

Is it a healthy thing to do? I think it... I think it... I... I... I... Generally, I don't know. Because it makes me feel like...

It makes me feel like if someone did something bad to someone important to me, that I should feel like some kind of emotional anger and frustration towards it. Like, maybe like a bit more, instead of just going into, like, taking a step back and just analog. and my feelings and stuff like that. Because I feel like that's part of being human.

And yeah, I think I think feeling some emotions for the people that's important around you, whether that be positive or negative, is an important part of being a good person. I don't know.

That's the best answer I have. Yeah. So I think you think this is a problem. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So like I could even ask, for example, like, were there times in your life where someone did something to you and someone in your family should have been angry with them and they weren't? Yeah. Most definitely, yes.

So like. Oh, no, sorry, not to me. Not to me. Sorry. Someone did someone to my family. And my family, at least my mom didn't get angry. She had a different emotional response, which was just kind of like shutting down. And how do you feel about that? I don't know. I feel like it wasn't a healthy way to deal with her emotions. And I've been trying to, I guess, like, I thought it was a normal thing. until I saw how other people

dealt with emotions, dealt with anger, especially. And I was like, maybe I'm the weird one. Maybe my parents were the weird ones, just because the only people who I'd seen deal with anger and situations like this

was my parents. So it was only after growing up and experiencing other people that I realized that, did I realize that maybe? A lot of real realizations and stuff. So I'm going to go back. Okay.

We're good, Gart. We're going to get there. Okay. Okay. So how did it? So someone in your family was wronged. Yes. And what should your mom have done?

My mom should have, uh, I feel cut that person out of their lives. Or at least make sure that there was some kind of repercussions to what that person did. Sure. Um, and, you know, I do very much believe in forgiveness, but I believe that forgiveness has to be earned. And I don't believe, like, my mom is such a nice soul, such a kind soul, a forgiving soul, which is kind of like the reason why that I think she forgave this person,

instead of just like trying to, like, revel in the anger. But to me, I kind of felt like maybe that person didn't do something to earn the forgiveness and it was my mom, you know, being the bigger person and looking over it, but I do feel like there should have been some kind of like even just emotional repercussions. So how do you feel about that? How do I feel? What is the emotion that someone in this situation that you, watching your mom, forgive this fucking person who didn't deserve it? and like, I guess anger.

Holy shit. I guess anger. Yeah, you think? Yeah. Wow, okay. Here you are asking me, should I feel more anger? And it's like, it's right there. You just don't know what it looks like.

Oh, okay. Wow. I feel dumb now. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I do hold some anger towards that. And I guess I didn't realize that up until this very moment. Feeling dumb is anger too, by the way. Okay.

Who are you angry with when you feel dumb? I'm angry at myself. There you go. Right. But is frustration the same thing as anger, you think? Is it? Sure. Frustration is anger, die at anger.

Okay. It's a more, I imagine you're better at feeling frustrated than you are feeling angry. Yeah. Yeah. I guess like when you ask me how I felt, it's like my, my first internal thought was frustration. And I was just like, I always like, I guess painted that different as anger. Anger was like a much stronger emotion for me. Absolutely. So frustration is an umbrella emotion. Yeah. And even, and especially for men, anger can be an umbrella emotion as well. Because for a lot of men, it's the only emotion that really allowed or conditioned to express like, oh, I'm going to get pissed. Like, you know. Right. And then, you know, like, I'm a lot of anime questions, too. Like, how do you feel watching these, like, anime stories of, like, vengeance and righteousness and, like, like, I'll be honest. I've never really gravitated towards those kinds of stories. I can appreciate it from, like, a, like, to me, there's, like, two different ways I view media, right? There's me viewing it as, like, critically. This is a very well-constructed story. story and I can see the appeal and then there's how I emotionally feel towards a piece of media which is, you know, there are some anime which I would not recommend to anyone that I, you know,

emotionally gravitate towards. I think subconsciously I gravitate to a lot of escapism. So there's this, there's this genre in anime. It's called Isakai. And the entire point of this genre is that it's about a person who's been transported to another world, right? And I've always, I'm not sure if I've liked that idea. I always subconsciously gravitate to kind of like being in another world,

enveloping the world of the author, and just something that's a bit detached from a story that's more grounded. Do people who are in Isakai anime, do they feel at home in their world? A lot of the times, no. I'll be honest Isakai anime isn't that deep

this is like this is purely like a surface level thing a lot of modern Issaqa anime is about a guy who is normally a nerd or like he's bullied and then he goes to another world and then he becomes a super ultra powerful person and gets all the girls and stuff like that

and to me it's just like this is just like junk food to me sounds like he's a misfit in one area in his belong in another area. Wow. Why are you going to do me like that, man? Right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're completely right. Yeah, now you're going to, now you say it like that. You are, you are completely right. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, it's, it's not like, it's not all of the genres revolving around that. I've always loved whether being a misfit or not, just like enveloping like a world of fiction. I've always like, even not just anime, but like video games as well.

That's why probably why like JRP's is like my favorite genre, just because I can just, you know, not exactly be someone else, but just experience something that I wouldn't get to experience in the real world. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm being a slightly facetious here. I'm now curious if we did a study about, you know, because we actually, there are studies about video games and personality, and we know that certain kinds of personalities will gravitate towards certain kinds of video games. I'm so curious if you could do a study about what kind of anime people watch and like psychologically what their temperament is or what kind of internal conflicts they have. I'm curious about it. I'm sort of shooting the shit with you, but, and we can go

back to the anger thing. But I think it's telling. I do think that, and this is not that really scientifically radical, but, you know, the media that resonates with us, resonates with us for a reason, right? It's because there's something in here that we see out there. Yeah. And there's, and it's, we're colorblind in here. But we see it out there and we're like, this is what I'm feeling. I can relate to this. This is like, you know, this misfit person and now like they're going to this place and they're being this amazing human being and, and, you know, your parents pressured you to fucking be an engineer or whatever. And now you've like, you've transplanted literally Isakaied yourself all the way over to fucking Japan where you have an anime podcast and you found your people, which are not normal people, by the way, right?

Because the Isakai world is like a magical world where the normal human beings like don't understand. Yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah. Your life is basically an Isakai anime. I'm going to use that queer next time. Right? I mean. Misfit to society goes and carves out their place making a job with a fucking podcast called Trash Taste.

How Normie is that? Right? Not Normie at all. Yeah. Thank you very much for saying it. Now I get like the Dr. K pass, you know, the Dr.K. Stamp of approval. I can now use that quote in my life philosophy. That's perfect.

Yeah, but going back to the anger thing. Right. So, you know, I think there's a reason you bring it up, right? Right. I think the reason that you bring it up is that I'm guessing that in your journey of self-improvement and self-reflection, you're noticing that there's kind of this blind spot. Yeah. That you're not feeling angry. That maybe you should be feeling a little bit more angry. And I get the sense you're conflicted because the other thing is that there's a very logical part of you that's also like feeling angry is bad, is useless. We shouldn't feel this way. doesn't help us much. We didn't like the way that we like the anger used to linger with us. So there's like a lot of objective reasons why you don't want to be angry. Yeah.

Then there's this whole other shit about your mom is a saint and you're not allowed to be angry at a saint. Right. Right. Like what? I'm going to get pissed at someone for taking the high road and offering forgiveness. So there's even this angle of like when you do feel anger, you kind of like don't give yourself license to do it. Right. Right. Yeah, that's a very good way to put it. And so I think there's a lot, and that's very common. So oftentimes when we suppress our anger, like I would guess that when you feel angry, you probably feel guilty with it, which oftentimes,

because we're like, why am I angry? I should be better than this. There's a lot of shit going on there, which is really common with anger, by the way. So the first is that we learn early on that anger is damaging and doesn't help us. so we start to suppress it. The second is that sometimes when we feel angry, we feel guilty for it because we'll get angry at people who don't deserve anger. So then we'll like suppress it even further. And then you'll make these logical arguments about how anger isn't helpful.

There'll be some amount of conditioning. And then you end up with this blind spot of anger. Now, the reason it's a problem is because just because you're blind to it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And what we tend to see in people who are blind to their anger and don't allow its space is that it like pops up in other areas that are like confusing to other people. So, you know, I have no idea. I'm not saying this is the case, but if we were to ask your wife whether you sometimes get passive aggressive, right, instead of just getting upset about

something, you like make some fucking logical argument that is actually emotionally driven. And then it gets like very problematic because the real problem. is not being vocalized or addressed because you don't, you know, you're not allowed to be upset because someone did something that was completely rational. But like, so then what the real challenge with anger is that if you don't really acknowledge it or notice it, it starts to pop up in other ways. Yeah. And then you try to fix those problems, but those aren't actually the problem. Right. The next thing is that if you don't really get in touch with your anger, sometimes people can take advantage of you and you'll become a little bit of a dormant because anger is a, uh,

emotion that is evolved to protect our territory. That's really what anger's about. It's like when someone violates me, like the way that I coordinate my response is angered. So I'm going to cut off ties with them because I'm not going to let me violate. I'm not going to let them violate me again. Going back to this stuff with your mom, super curious, we're not going to get into it. But if you want to talk to a therapist about it, interesting to explore. When she forgives someone, do they end up hurting additional people?

And what's that going to do? that's going to make you even more pissed. Right. And then you get stuck in this kind of thing where every time they forgive, they become more of a saint and you get more pissed. But then like you're not allowed to be pissed at someone who's like such a saint. Yeah. I think you should get in touch with your anger for what it's worth. But do it in your own time and pace.

I mean, you asked, you said earlier, if you asked my wife, do I get passive aggressive? I'm not really a passive aggressive person. if something is bothering me, I kind of like just, I don't really have any problems, just not really letting it out, but just having like, I would say more just like addressing it directly, if that makes sense. I don't get, I don't really raise my voice. I don't really show the outwards emotions of anger, but I just talk. I guess the best way I would say is like the disappointed dad tone kind of like talk, um, instead of, instead of outwardly showing, anger or frustration. It's more just like a, like, hey, this is really bothering me because you did this

or you did this and this person, basically. If that makes sense. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense. I think, I think disappointed dad is a, is a very common thing for anger to get. Right. Transmuted into. Right. And I think that, I mean, I'm not saying you should be pissed more, But I mean, you're asking, is it a problem? And I'm saying these are the problems that I tend to see. I mean, I honestly, I honestly ask not for like a yes or no answer. I believe sessions like this, I, you know, I've really valued sessions like this. Because I get to learn something about myself.

And that's why I, you know, I think therapy is like definitely important, even if you don't necessarily think you have anything that's wrong with you. or anything like that. I think getting a better understanding of the person you are helps a lot because it might be easy to think that you understand yourself, but even just today talking to you, I'm like, oh yeah, how did I? Like, I've discovered things about myself that I think should have been fucking obvious. Yeah, so that word fucking there is anger.

Okay. Right? Okay. Yeah. I mean. I don't think it's obvious and it certainly isn't fucking obvious. It's actually really, really hard to get. But, you know, here you are self-improvement, Chad.

And this is the one time you beat yourself up. Right? You can be like all for growth and self-reflection and looking back and growing and no-fiel. But this is the one place that you're judgmental towards yourself. Right. Right. How does it feel when I pointed out? When you point it out.

this is, you know, there's two things. One, I'm happy I've learned something about myself. Two, I'm frustrated that I didn't see this earlier. But it was, you know, it's not like, again, it's like a very just light frustration. I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just, you know, like I said earlier, I'm just a dumb ass. Yeah, I think your experience of it is light, but I'm noticing actually like this is the most emotionally uncomfortable. I've seen you over the last two hours. And even when I pointed out to you, it seems like you're still. kind of beating like, oh, there it happened again. And I missed it again. I missed it again.

This is the vibe that I'm getting from you now. I feel like moments like these. I mean, yes, I am, I guess, like emotionally uncomfortable. But I feel like it's moments like these that, you know, help me learn and help me, I guess. Help me learn and help me understand myself and help me give me more, not experienced knowledge, no. Insights. Give me more insights

about the person I am and the person that I want to be. Yeah, so I would encourage you to also experiment with being a little bit less positive. Okay. Like in situate, like, you know, what I'm hearing is that you're making fucking lemonade right and left. Right. You know, and like, it's okay to,

I know it sounds kind of weird, but it's okay for you to be angry and for you to like not grow from it. Yeah. And not become a better person. Right. Because it, you know, and on the flip side, it's like, it's like anger maybe for you is like, have you seen Naruto? Yes, I've seen Naruto. Yes. So it's like Qibino Chakra. Right.

So like that's what it is. And it's suppressed and it's trapped and whatever. And I think ultimately if you look at. Even things like flow states and stuff like that, your optimal performance actually comes from emotional activation. You need emotional activation along with like the cognitive centers of your brain, like working together to get into your optimal mode of functioning. And even when it comes to some of this stuff like feeling disconnected from home and like, because I'm hearing that sometimes you feel disconnected. That's the most common thing that you've historically felt. I'm getting a sense that's getting.

And I think that that disconnection will continue as long as you're suppressing anger. So you can't, the brain, unfortunately, I mean, sort of, but when you kind of turn down the volume, you turn down volume on everything. Right. And so I think going forward, getting in touch with your anger is probably a good thing. And I think you kind of realize that on some level. And the problem is that there's a lot of like logical crap there that's like floating around, which is not wrong. By all means, improve and self-improve and stuff like that. But sometimes it's okay.

to just be pissed and nothing comes out of it and it's not good that is what my wife has been trying to teach me okay yeah yeah i mean it's a journey yeah it's a journey uh and it's a journey uh and it means a lot coming from you as well and uh yeah this this has been very enlightening honestly on a lot of different levels. I probably got to go in about five, like five, ten minutes because, yeah, I'm, I like my family's house right now. Yeah. So I think it's a great place to stop if you're cool with it. Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I think if I bring up another topic, that's going to turn into another half hour conversation. Yeah. Yeah, I'm comfortable ending it here. Yeah. So any kind of last thoughts or comments, questions before we wrap up for today? Any like final reflections? Just, I just, I just

want to thank you. Thank you for doing what you're doing. I think you're doing something amazing here. And, you know, even if someone like it, someone like me can learn a bit more about myself, I think it's something that is so invaluable. No, so valuable. Sorry. That's a very valuable experience. Absolutely, man. And I really appreciate you coming on, sharing everything that you've shared about yourself. You know, this stuff isn't possible without you. And it's, It's been delightful to talk to someone who's had experience, like, sort of with so much self-reflection and kind of analyzing yourself. I hope I didn't bludgeon you too hard at the end, but you seem like an absolute beast-mode

kind of guy. No, no. That's what I wanted. That's what I wanted. And, you know, if you ever, when you find that home of yours, I'd be happy to send you a homewarming gift or visit one day or whatever. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah.

Whenever, whenever I find it or whenever I build it over time, as you. you were saying. Maybe I won't find it immediately if it's built over time. So one last question I've got for you is like, do you have any anime recommendations? I haven't watched anime in a couple of years. So I'm... For you, I would highly, highly recommend a monster. Okay. I think I've, that's the one about the detective. Yeah, there's, it's, it's a detective who is chasing basically a serial killer. and it's one of like personally one of my favorite anime or manga and i think it's such an interesting

character study on the on what it means to be evil are we born with it uh is it something we like learn over time um and it has one of the best written and most interesting villains you can find in the medium so yeah interesting i will definitely check it out dude i'm hyped Thanks for a recommendation, man. No worries, no worries, man. Thank you very much for inviting me. Yeah, thanks for coming on and enjoy your time with your family and looking forward to...

You want to just tell us one last time where we can find you and what kind of work you do? You can find me on my main anime channel, Giguck. Or you can also catch me on the Trash Tastes podcast. Just search either of them up on YouTube. So awesome podcast, y'all. I highly, highly, highly recommend it. Definitely check it out.

And I will watch Monster and get back. It's done, right? That's the one thing. It's done. It's done. Yeah. Okay. So I'll definitely check it out.

So thank you so much. Would you be interested in having any of the other boys come on? Because I can ask them. Sure. We're happy to talk to basically anyone ever. Oh, awesome. Awesome. Okay.

Yeah. So we're just about having conversations with people about their experience of life. So sure. Right. Yeah. All right. Awesome. I'll shoot them a message then.

As long as they bring recommendations. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Thank you very much. Take care, Garn. Good luck with everything, man. Thank you.