HealthyGamerGG - Dr. K Discusses TOXICITY With LoL Pros (ft. Voyboy, Shiphtur, Sanchovies, SirhcEz)

Episode Date: September 10, 2020

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Yo, how's everybody doing today? Good, how about you? Good. Good. So you guys are a bunch of league experts. Something like that. That's awesome, right? Can we, and we're talking a little bit today about like league positivity and toxicity. Is that right?

Yeah, sounds right. Do you guys want to talk about something else? It's your show or your, uh, your stream. Yeah, but I, I never figure out what we talk about. It's usually the guests who determine. I know it's kind of weird, right? So the first thing I'll ask people is like, what do you want to talk about today? I see.

So you gave us a topic, but then we don't actually have to talk about the topic. Not if y'all don't want to. I mean, I think that's why we assembled this particular group of people. But ultimately, if you guys, so y'all are the experts, right? So you guys know what our community needs and what you guys need. And if you all want to talk about something else, that's cool. I mean, if something comes up. And whatever happens, happens.

Yeah. Absolutely, buddy. I can get behind that. Can we start with introductions? Should I go first? I'll go first. I'll be shy, guys. So I'm all at Knoja, also known as Dr. K.

I've played League of Legends a handful of times. I don't even remember which champion I played, but it's one that can root things and is a support. And it's a fun game. Maybe I'll play a little bit more. That was great. I'll go. My name is Danny, Danny Lee, or a shifter. Stream league, used to play pro.

Yeah, not to stream comfortably now. Cool. My name is Jordat or Boy Boy. Like Danny, yeah, I used to play pro too. We used to play against each other with each other. And yeah, I just been streaming for a while now, too, mainly league. My name is Chris or Surchase. I just play league for fun to stream.

I've never played professionally, but I do get pretty up there into ELO with just playing one champion. Which champion is like, oh, sorry. Oh, sorry, Kurt. Oh, you're good. I play a cinch. You bust out the NASA sometimes, too. Yeah, we lost it, boy, boy. I don't know if you.

I know. No, I realize. Not bad. No, it wasn't your fault. Someone else three minutes. It was all good. It was hackerel, but. Yeah.

I don't want to mention names. Yeah. Yeah, sorry, go ahead, dude. Okay, sorry. My name's Kareem. San Jovi's, I never played pro, but I've been streaming league for about two years now. And I play top.

You know what this sounded like? What? You know, like, when you go to like those sharing circles, when they talk about like addiction and they give- Like the alcoholic, yeah, yeah. It's like, my name is Danny Lee. I'm 27, and I play League of Legends. Dr. Casey.

You're damn right. You guys see how you fell right into that trap? I was like, we can talk about whatever you want to, and it's like a share circle at the beginning of the day. My name is, you said it's Chris or Sechise? Yeah, so Serchez is actually my name backwards. So Chris E with a Z, but that's all people call me, so I just stuck with it, search as yeah so search has is like i'm a i'm a singe spamer pretty much yeah the only champion i know

to play yeah so you guys um so let me just kind of dive right in and danny that was hilarious man so you guys mentioned earlier that that you know search has kind of apologized for losing a game right and then and then boy boy was like no man it's not your fault it's that other fucking noop's Paul. Right? So we get to we get to the beginning of league, which is like, what's it like when you blame a teammate? Like, why does that happen? Like, what do you all think about that? I think it's pretty natural reaction for people to look for other reasons outside of themselves, whether it's true or not to like, you know, put a lot of the responsibility or a lot of times it turns out the blame and it happens a lot in league right like um you know someone might have a

someone might be playing well all game they might not even make a mistake but someone might just something might go wrong and they might think it's their fault and then they'll just start like typing flaming them they'll get mad and they just like go off on them and all on that kind of stuff and I mean there's so many different situations and in contexts where that kind of happens but I think it's it's like super meta at least in the league community to just kind of look for reasons to like tear other people especially on your team down or like find someone to like you know be a scapegoat or or blame for whatever happens and I feel like that's kind of like been been been around since like you know I mean it's just like a gaming thing but it's definitely gotten worse over time

in the league community I think as well what do you all think about that um sorry I'm glad no no no glad okay uh I think personally shifting blame is like one of the easier ways to like I don't know it's just something that a lot of people do and I notice it a lot and I think unless you're at the highest of the highest levels of play nobody ever plays perfectly and it is like from my experience one of the like the worst things that you can do to stop yourself from improving because I think instead of looking at what others did wrong, you should look at what you did wrong in that certain situation,

but it's very hard to do in the moment. Because, like, something just went wrong. The game is potentially lost. You have 20 minutes of pain ahead of you playing a game that probably just got lost. And, like, despite that, you still have to look at what you did wrong. And so I think that's just, like, difficult to do in that environment, especially when everybody else is already sort of tilted.

Makes it hard to do. Well, your ego gets in the way. And that's something that you have to really, like, be real with yourself about. Especially in league, you'll find that it's much easier to blame others for a play than to blame yourself. You guys think that's specific to league? No, I don't know. Real life, other games, it's the same, in my opinion. Yeah, so why do we do that?

So it's like kind of, like there's something actually really cool about this, is that you guys are talking about something and I can't tell that you guys are talking about me. There's ego involved. You look for other reasons besides yourself for the failures that you face. Right, which is like this is crazy. I never connected these dots until now,

but I wonder if people can transform their lives by understanding themselves and league. Because if you guys are saying it applies outside a league, like interesting, right? So I've known plenty of people who are happy to blame their parents, their siblings, their teachers, anyone but yourself. Yeah, that's a good point. So when Kurt...

Like a... Sorry. Go for it. I was going to say like it... kind of seems like a lot of people, I kind of want to say like they lack like perspective, I guess. Like when people get stuck in like a bubble, they think about this one way or they tunnel it and they forget to think about it different ways. Or yeah, they're just like, they're just so tunneled on it. And they these same guys who just like wake up and get mad every day, you know, they could probably kind of fall into the same routine that they don't really try to actively switch it up.

So I feel like it's hard to change right you just it's really easy to fall into you know do the same thing every day yeah yeah yeah so how does one so you guys used a couple of terms which I think it's important to kind of explore one is ego and the other is losing perspective so what would you guys say like what is when kareem says ego what do you all think he means ego you just don't want to be seen as like weak or worse than other people don't want to be seen as weak or worse than other people. Do you guys... Yeah.

The problem I counter a lot in league is that people will automatically, like, they really don't like to get blamed on, I guess. Like, um, geez, how do I award this? Can you give that from me on this? Sure. point. Let's, so can anybody help Danny out? Wait, what, would you, you said they don't like to get blamed on? Yeah, like, they, they hate being the victim. They hate feeling like weak or like bad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I think it's, it, I feel like, I, it's kind of like, hmm, I guess one just immediate way to put it is like, it's like, you have like two junglers and like they're fighting over like, this finite resource, which is like scuttle crabs. And like usually two spawn one on each side of the map. And like, you know, one jungler can like go for one. The other can go for another or like they can contest the same one. And a lot of times, especially since it was introduced, like you'll have a lot of junglers like mental boom because they want to go for one. And then like whatever the situation is, like whether they don't have priority in

lanes, they can't get help from their team or they have worse like early game champions on their team. Like they'll just over, they'll overforce it or if they don't get it or whatever. they'll just be like, all right, we lost, like the game's over. When it's literally like, you know, it's like worth like a hundred gold, like a bit of XP. Like it's not, it doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of like a whole League of Legends game. But I've had people like literally leave my, like the game at like three minutes in so many

times because they like didn't get scuttle crap or whatever or they like they like, they felt like someone like screwed them over. And it's just kind of like, that's like a microcosm of like what happens all the time in league, which is like, yeah, if like if like you feel like you're the thing that you cared about the most or like your personal strength or like your ability to carry or like be the hero or like whatever objective that you had in mind or you know if that if that gets derailed because of someone's else or because because you think it is or you just want to blame someone else it kind of just like breeds like kind of like a negative like outburst and like some toxic behavior and stuff

like that and I mean I've seen it a lot over the years and in like different forms and stuff like that. But yeah, people definitely don't want to like, you know, feel like they can't like be like the, like they wanted to be like a single player game where like it's like their story and stuff like that. And if anything happens and they can find a reason that like it wasn't that that stopped them from doing that and the way they wanted like they'll just they'll just like, you know, go off on people and I don't know. Obviously it's a little different in each situation. But I feel like I see that quite often. What did you guys hear? from Boy Boy's story. What do you think are the important points from his example?

I think people just don't like to admit their mistakes. So they'll, like you, I think he was mentioned like how people like to force things. And, you know, it's not, um, what you call it? It's not favorable for to like follow up with whatever the person is trying to do because you can end up losing more like, um, um, some, you know, it's not favorable for, to like, um, Sometimes, you know, I'm top lane and my jungler wants to gank a tower dive. And if I commit to it, I know I'm going to die also. So it's better to just let him die than have me die. And at that point, the jungler gets really mad saying, oh, how come you to commit with me?

You suck. And then he starts blaming me for losing the game. And then it's the whole game. He just type seems like, oh, you suck. This guy. Top gap. Everything. And it's just.

Top what? I don't know what to do. Oh, they say like top gap. Like there's a top difference. like the other players better than you. Oh, got it. Yeah. Okay.

So I got something kind of bizarre to say. What if I told you guys, so like you guys are talking about basically like this principle in league where something relatively minor goes wrong, right? Like a little, let's say he dives the top tower and he dies and you don't die with him. And what he wanted more than anything else is you to die with him because now that you haven't died with him, we're going to lose the game. Which is a fucked up logic for in its own way. But and then avoid boy boy. was kind of talking about scuttle, which is like, you know, you lose your scuttle and you really wanted that scuttle. Like, that was supposed to be your scuttle. And it's not your scuttle now.

And then you, like, kind of throw in the towel, right? What if I told you guys that that's not restricted to leak? What if I were to say that I think half the problem with the people who feel stuck in life and join our community is because they throw in the towel because something didn't go their way. Yeah. Sounds about right. Makes sense. I agree. Right. So, like, what do we do about that. Like, this is actually really bizarre because I think what you guys, y'all are using league terminology, but what I'm hearing you guys talk about is people that I work with. They had something. So, like, let's try to understand what is it that makes, like, why do people do this? Like, how does that work in their mind where I wanted the scuttle and I didn't get it? So fuck everyone.

and most of all, fuck me. I'm going to int in real life. So that's what we do, right? We int in real life too. We self-sabotage. I got to be on a test.

Fuck it. I'm never going to class again. They literally throw. They throw. They take their GPA and they toss it out the window. Which is really kind of bizarre, but I didn't really think that we were going to get here.

But I think, bizarrely, you guys may have an answer to transform the lives of thousands of people. If you guys can figure out, why do people do this in league? Hmm. I think people have a certain, like, idea and a certain mindset before even getting into a game of league when they decide to queue up. For example, if you're going to play a really aggressive champion,

you have a way of thinking how the lane is going to play out or how the matchup is going to play out. And sometimes it just doesn't go your way. and then depending on your mental you can either like improve on it see what happened wrong avoid it in the future and then in the moment adapt to the situation and see how you can play from behind or do what i think is the easy way out and just self-sabotage fuck everything i'm just going to end so koreem said these are your three options what would you guys say to that I'm often stuck.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's just like, I want to get back to the thing of perspective. Like, yeah. I think maybe it's like, most people get mad, like, it's all they know. They haven't, like, experienced much else. But like, to them, like, league is everything, right?

But they lose this game, like, they're losing everything. But, like, you know, some things aren't, how much value are you going to put on losing? League of Legends game. Just one League of Legends game, unless you're like, you know, pro play where everything is on the line. Like,

how much is this one loss really worth? You know, like, maybe take a step outside, like, live life a little bit. And like, there's more things to life than, you know, that one legal legist game that went on. So I think. Yeah.

So, Danny, I feel like theoretically that's true. But that's not how people treat it. Yeah. Right? So we can say, whatever we want to we can say oh like depression is bad it shouldn't be there and but it's true and kind of going back to karim's like okay either you learn from it you rage like those are the two

options karim's right so i think our question so you guys have done a fantastic job of laying out okay so people lack perspective people can learn from it or they can rage the question is why why do they do If I, it's like, let me give you guys a choice. Column A is learn from your mistakes. Column B is let your mistakes determine the rest of your life. And so it's a no-brainer. Like, no, no, I'm going to pick colon A. I want, I want to learn from my mistakes.

But it's not actually what people do. People fucking pick column B all the time. So why on earth do they do that? It's like, it's just a scuttle, man. Like, why are you getting bent out of shape? Because once you start inting, then you're actually going to lose. So why? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You're damn right it is. So why do people choose the clearly crappier often? Because it's easier. Sorry. Oh yeah. I think it's easier. And as well, I think they also want to bring other people down to their level. Because like for example, with what Shifter said, he said, when, you know, they think it's

just a league game. So they're going to leave, how is it going to affect them? But when they leave, it also affects their teammates because the, you know, they think other like their teammates they want to win it's not just him getting affected so him leaving also affects the teammates and he probably just wants to bring everyone else down with him or her yeah you guys said it was it's easier what's easier about it i think it's like how they release their anger like it's not like similar like like a ball like a punching bag like they release anger like we see something and like then like maybe like just get to like put it out a

a little bit. I don't know. So let me ask you guys a question. How does it feel to int? It feels good in the moment. I can say from experience. It feels good in the moment. You bastard. You can't help but feel bad about it. I mean, I know some people are so far deep into this downward spiral that they don't feel bad about it. And they've kind of become known for doing this kind of behavior. But yeah, it definitely feels good. good at the moment but there are for sure healthier things to do for yourself for the game in the long run yeah so i'm not so interested in those right because they're there are healthier things for everyone in our community to do right and they don't want to yeah i know what it feels like

to be on the receiving end of it how does that feel um honestly like like myself and like a lot of people a lot of these guys like we know how it feels to like be into whether it's like targeted because we're streaming or because people like don't like us for whatever reason or like you know people have people like put like bounties on my head in solo queue and like paid off like booster and stuff just to like

just like run it down on my game and like clip the reaction and then be like ha ha look how like saddie is this kind of stuff it's like when I'm streaming and stuff like obviously try not to show like how how like annoyed or like upsetting it is but like really like when I when I like have like a stream and like into like three three games or something like that and I'm and I like barely get to play it's just it really sucks man like it actually is like really over time like over years and like so like that it is pretty depressing just to like not really get to do the thing you love and then like like at the way you want to and just have

have like your experience ruined and like it's just a game right like to log people it's just like oh like these like you know streamers they're just like playing games like why are they like stress out but like to me like league is like you know it's been my life for like you know 10 years and then just to like have that happen and just like you know have riot do nothing about it so for so long and then just have people like kind of normalize that kind of stuff and you know belittle like when it happens or like justify it or whatever like that kind of i don't know it's it definitely sucks. Yeah, it definitely sucks a lot. So, I don't know. I've tried to always just like, obviously losing a game by itself feels really shitty for anyone, right? But then just to like, you know, put yourself

out there and like try your best in a game and just have like someone, whether because a play went wrong or they're like, you know, just trying to like, you know, get back at someone or whatever they're, their reasoning. It doesn't really matter just to like single-handedly decide like, all right, like your experience is ruined and you're not, you're not going to get to like play the game that you like, and we're going to just like make this, make this one game or this moment or maybe multiple games like feel really shitty for you. And then you have to like, you know, be on stream and like, you know, just do your best to be like, well, guys, sorry this guy's like running it down. Um, you know, hopefully next game will be better. Uh, how's everyone's day going?

Like it's just like what what do you do at that point? Like there's not there's not that many options. But yes, it's definitely not a good feeling, I guess. Search as I saw you nodding. I relate to like I'm known for just always being positive and never getting mad at anything. But yeah, I mean, a couple of times people do in and same same attitude. I have to pretend that it doesn't affect me and I just try to, you know, tell my community like, hey guys, well, that sucks.

It's just, you know, it happens. Got to move on next game. How does it feel, but? I mean, it kills the mood. It kills the mood and you kind of just don't want to play anymore, but I do enjoy the game. It's just getting losses like that. Like, I don't mind losing.

Yeah, losing sucks. But, you know, losing because of a player that's purposely trying to lose the game for you, makes the loss much worse. and he just kind of kills the boot to play another game. What makes it so much worse? I don't think that. It just makes you feel, I can't really describe the feeling, but it's just... You're hostage.

Yeah. It feels like you're being held hostile or 20, 30 minutes. Can you say more about that, Danny or Karene? Yeah, because, I mean, usually most of, like, bad stuff happens, all the negatives and what happened in the first maybe five minutes or so. But a game will always drag on to like minimum 15 minutes is when early as you can surrender now. But easily games will just go like 20 minutes and you're just trapped there for like 15, 20 minutes

dealing with it because you can't just leave. It's not like a game like like Fortnite or whatever like whatever. You don't like your teammate, you just exit out. There's no repercussions really. Like in the league you're stuck with them and it's a team game. You know you need to work with your teammates to progress and think And if they don't want to work together with you, then, you know, the fuck. So that's what I'm looking for, right?

Like, so Danny says, so all you guys are saying something at the tail end, you'll talk about something. And at the end, there's some emotion like, the fuck. What is that? Right? Because that's the closest to the authentic what you feel like. What is that? Taking the nuts. It was like, picking the nuts.

Right? So this is something that. men do. When I ask you guys about feelings, you describe physical sensation. That's the way that we represent emotions, because you can't come up with a word. There are words to describe how we feel. We call those words emotions. Sadge. Right? So this is actually really fascinating because as a community, we've come up for our own vocabulary because we don't know how to use the vocabulary of normal humans. Right?

That's why we get like, what is sad? It's kind of like sad. But it's like something. I just learn about sadge. Right. It's kind of, it's like really awesome. It's like cool to see us develop our own like language to describe our internal sensations. And everyone understands what Pepe Hans means.

We all know that feeling. Right. Like. Mm-hmm. So what is the feeling? What how do you guys feel when someone shows up on your stream? First of all, how does it feel to have someone putting a bounty on your head? Like shit.

There it is. So Boy Boy keeps on saying like shit. What does that mean? There are all kinds of things. I mean, I mean, I get I get really mad. But like like me or all of us, I guess like we're in like pretty positive streamers. Like it's like when someone comes up. up to you like in real life like they like speaking like speaking the face like what's your natural

swan like maybe freaking you want to fight though right like like push them away but like for us like we generally try to uphold like you know some sort of like positive environment community so it's like it's very draining for us to like hold it and hold it in because you don't want to step down to their level we we want to be better than yeah so i'm hearing a lot of stuff so boy boy i'm going to ask you. I don't mean to pick on you, by the way. So I think that the reason that you say, like shit, is because I think there's a lot of stuff encompassed under that umbrella. So Danny talks about it being draining. Like, you know that feeling, right? Where like, you have all these, like, feelings that come up and you're like, if I was a noob, I could

just let loose. But I am not. And so there are parts of myself. I think part of the reason that we don't know how to describe our feelings is because we actually take those things and we shove them off into a closet and close the door because you guys are positive streamers and if you show if they see that it works that's just going to increase it yeah um no for sure i mean it's something that i've struggled a lot with over the years like i'm i i did like a like a 10 minute video where I was just like talking to the camera like a few months back. And I was just like talking about how horrible like Solo Q is and how Riot's not doing anything and how like, you know, like target inting and like people just running it down. Like it was one part of it.

But it was just something that I just eventually just like need to get off my chest and just like hoping like riot would do something or the community would like stop enabling this kind of stuff. Because like I don't I don't know, man. like it's pretty hard like I've been I've been playing in like streaming league for like nine years and I guess what just feels kind of bad sometimes is like I guess like

I don't know like I feel like I've always tried so hard to like set a good example and like be like a good member of like the scene and the community and stuff and like never like never like ran down on people never just like went off and people for no reason like always like tried to like show like you know like the best

qualities you can like in game and like out of it for like the players and just hope that you know other people could could pick up on that and like and like run with it too and then just to have like you know so many like I just like I just like take a shower I just like wake up eat some food to come on stream and then just to like not be able to play the game like to have like a four hour stream like have like four games in a row where people are just like insulting me and like running it down and like this kind of stuff and just knowing like riot's not going to do anything and like having to like people people in chat being like boy like what's why you so sad like it's just a game like you know just you know don't worry about these people like

they're just like yeah but they're like literally controlling like my like actual life like when you're playing a game when you're streaming and stuff you know that's that's what you're doing that's like what that's something that's like who I am basically so I mean yeah it's definitely something that's like weighed down on me for like years now and definitely got it like it's been really like the worst um like this year but yeah i i don't really know like what to do about it and like yeah it does i feel like showing like that it affects you or like even like when it's happening being like you know like not just like laughing it off like i don't really know what to do besides just trying to laugh it off even though sometimes it's like pretty hard um you know whenever it's happening and yeah i don't

know like i just i just feel like it's it's not really fair i guess and that's when i say like it feels like shit. It's just, you know, it's just encapsulating that, those kind of things over the years, I suppose. But yeah. Can I say something? I think I'm a bit of an outlier in the way that I handle some situations compared to some of these guys. I mean, I'm not, I don't claim to be like this beacon of positivity. I mean, like, I know what it's like to be watched and to have something happened to you that you couldn't do yourself because you are a streamer. And I think that, well, I just want to say, like, the way that you guys handle those situations takes so much mental strength.

It is ridiculous. Like, you could never understand unless you are put yourself into this situation. And, like, I really commend that. And I have so much respect for guys, like, boy, boy, shift or search as, like, for having the mental strength. to not do what others do and to not, like, have this sort of eye for an eye mentality. And that's something that I'm working on myself. Yeah, I just want to say, like, because that video, I think, was the beginning of something that was, like, a lot bigger.

And although, like, it hasn't really gotten to that point yet where we can say that there has been some, like obvious changes in the way that people think, I think it is for sure, like, happening. So, like, I just wanted to say, like, how much respect I have for you guys and, like, to keep going and not to give up, I guess. Thanks, man. No problem.

What's it like to hear that from Kareem? It's nice. Because, I mean, sometimes it feels like we're fighting, like a hopeless war. Because there's a reason why, you know, positive reinforcing streamers kind of died out over the years. We lost a lot of favors like that. So it's definitely nice to know that, you know, we're at least showing impact or we'll see it forever. Why do positive streamers?

Yeah, go ahead. It's definitely uplifting and encouraging to, keep doing what we're doing. It's hard to see if we're making a difference or not, but it's really good to hear feedback from other people, you know, just encourage us to keep going. And yeah, definitely. I know this sounds kind of weird, but so Karim said something that was very warm and supportive.

Did anybody find themselves having sort of like a negative reaction towards what he said? No. Not at all. Nah. It's something that... Sorry. No, you've gone. Go for it. I was just going to say, like, I guess, yeah, what Karim said, like, the encouragement and, like, you know, showing respect.

Like, I guess, like, there are definitely a lot of people that do vocalize in that way and, like, you know, do kind of encourage what we've always trying to have been doing. but I feel like it's the almost was like the vocal majority in the community kind of drowns it out sometimes. So it's like a little easy to not hear those things or not see them or kind of like forget about it when you're when you're kind of faced with like some of the more toxic side. So it definitely feels, you know, good every time, you know, someone, someone's like, hey, like, you know, keep keep up, keep up, you know, what you've been doing and just. trying to set a good example and that kind of stuff. So it definitely feels good. Can I think for a second? Yep.

Great. You guys have anything else you want to say? I don't mean to. I feel like I'm sniffing something. I'm just, I need to package my thoughts. But if you guys have more to add, I'd love to hear. Okay. So, Cordium, you say that you're not like these other guys.

Right. How does it feel to int? that's a funny question um in the moment again it does feel good but you know you're not doing the right thing and it feels shitty because like you have people in the chat calling you out for it and then you have this inner conflict of like but everybody else does it why is it bad when i do it and then it's again you have these voices and it's like okay but i'm supposed to be held to a higher standard because I'm a streamer. So there's a lot.

It's like you have to balance out a lot of things when you're streaming League Legends. And there are a lot of many different things that can get to you. Rame, does it feel fair to Int? It does feel fair. It's damn right. It does. Yeah. What do you guys think about that?

It's a weird question to ask. Does it feel fair? What do you all think about that? I think it feels fair, but it isn't. Sure. Yeah. Why does it feel fair? Because what I'm hearing from these other guys, these positive guys, is that it's not fair.

It feels hopeless. It's so exhausting. Right. Tiring. But inting is like the opposite of all of those things. Yeah. It feels fair. It's invigorating.

Right? Right. That's how, like, how can people do, like, like boy boy streams for four hours and he's wiped at the end of it. These fuckers in for 12 hours straight and they're still going. Right. It's weird, right? How do you all understand that?

It's like a very personal thing where it's just like you feel like you're giving back what's being dished out to you. Damn right. Yeah. And what was dished out to you, Kareem? that same thing. What? I've been being into.

Yeah. So like in those moments when you in, what are you giving back to them? I think the problem is you're not necessarily giving back to the same people. When you, like when you had a rough game previously and you go into the next one with an inting mindset, it's not fair, but it feels fair. I know, but what are you giving back? Right. And who are you giving it back to? I agree you're giving something back.

Yeah. Maybe to the wrong person. Right. Or you're giving back shit, dude. Yeah. Giving back a horrible experience. Yeah, for sure. To who?

To yourself and to others. No, I'd toss out. I'm going to toss out a word. You're giving it back to the universe. Yeah. Because the universe fucking gave it to you. Right. Right.

Last game, the universe or riot or call it whatever you want to life. gave you these shitties these smurfs on the other team and this top gap nob on your team right this AFK jungler and so you're gonna

you're gonna punch back does that sound like it makes sense sounds about right yeah and so I'm gonna just start talking is that okay yep you guys let me know if I'm like

on the right track or the wrong track feel free to jump if you guys have thoughts or questions. First of all, thank you guys so much for sharing all this. I think it's actually really fascinating. Because what I'm actually hearing is not something, I'm not really hearing you guys talk about league. I'm hearing you guys talk about life, which is bizarre. But I'm going to start with this idea of like not fair. So here you are trying to live a good life. And then they're all the shitties. and the shitties, I don't know why, we're not quite sure. But maybe we'll figure it out by the end.

For some reason, they do things to you that are like hard and painful. And Danny used to play as fucking depressing, hopeless war. Because that's what it feels like to try to be like positive in a game. And sometimes that's also what it feels like to be positive in your own life. is that you're fighting this like hopeless war against i'm not quite sure what but i think it comes back to the scuttle it comes back to this idea that like you woke up today and you got into a game and you had this idea about what was supposed to happen and somebody took that away from who took it away from you anyone but yourself it was

Not enough lane pressure, as you guys put it. Or, you know, like the other team, like having a, like, someone took something away from you. And then you get angry. And you feel hurt because you had this idea of what you wanted. But it's not what they gave you. Poor boy boy wakes up every day and he's like, I love League of Legends. I used to be pro. I like to stream.

I just want to play this fucking game because I love the game. And it's cool. Like, I'm okay losing. I'm okay winning. I just want to play. That's all I want to do. If I get crushed, I get crushed. No big deal. I just want to play the game. But instead, so he has this idea, right?

Like he has this expectation. And that's the word you guys haven't used yet, but that's the word I'm going to toss out as the root of all this. It's this expectation. It's like, I'm going to queue and I'm going to get to play League of Legends. It's not an unreasonable expectation. And then someone somewhere out there puts a bounty on his head. And then he doesn't get to play that game.

And I know it's like kind of apples and oranges, and I don't mean to suggest that boy, boy is like the guy who, you know, rages when he loses the scuttle in the first five minutes. But there is actually an interesting parallel because, like, it's about an expectation that gets dashed, right? And I think that one is a far more reasonable expectation, but at the end of it, I still see an expectation. He just doesn't get to play the game.

And it's not fair. Now, the interesting thing is like when we look at boy boy, we can say, yeah, dude, actually you're right. It's not fair. But the interesting thing is how does the scuttle player feel when he loses the scuttle? It's not fair. And so if it's not fair to me, it sure as hell isn't going to be fair to you. If I'm diving the top tower, your ass is coming with me. If I'm going to throw, you're going to throw two because I ain't thrown alone.

And we get to this like idea of I don't know exactly how this turns into like sabotaging, but it also is like taking the world with you. And now I'm kind of like at a little bit of a loss. But I feel like there's something really important about, you know, making it fair. And sort of this sense that that dream is like, yeah, it feels fair. Right. Like it's like what I feel about someone who ints, you know what I really think describes them is righteous. What do you guys think about that?

I think it makes sense. I think, you know, it's, like, I mean, in the context of the league, like, it's a team game. There's, like, 10 people playing, and there's so many factors that determine the results. But at the end of the day, like, if you want to single-handedly decide the result for your whole team, you can. You could literally just leave the game or, you know, buy Mobis and run it down mid. So it's like you're taking all the control away from everyone else. And like it's, it's you have all the control, right? Like you basically just decide everybody's fate for better or for worse.

And so I don't know, maybe like, I mean, you're the expert, but that's, I don't know, maybe that's kind of in parallel with what you're saying. Maybe, maybe not. So Chess, what do you think? I say I don't know. Okay. But I'm going to stick with what Boyboy said. Yeah. So I think there's something really important here, right? So like let's forget about the term righteousness for a second, but I think there's something about taking control when control has been taken away from you. What do you guys think about that?

I think somewhere along the way, this game stopped being team focused in the way that people view it and became a lot more individual focused when people queue up. And that kind of removed the idea that sometimes there are going to be circumstances where it's actually not good to contest an objective or to make a play. And that, in turn, like, leads to those unfavorable events, and then that leads to the behavior that comes with that, if that makes sense. Can somebody help me understand that? Yeah, no, I think it does make sense. Everyone, it was kind of like the first thing we, like, we're talking about too. Like, it's everyone wants to be like, it's like you're playing Skyrim or something. Like you go into a game and you're just like, this is what I want to do, this, how I'm going to win.

Like, I just watched like, you know, this pro player or like Tarzan, like, jungle. Like, oh, I know exactly like how to like 1B9 this game. and then like, oh, this, like, this, and then they go for something and, like, they don't get the help or they, they mess, they mess up or they want to, like, find something else. Like, you know, it's just, it's just figuring out, like, the, why did it go wrong? Why was it not me? And some people, some people will be like, oh, that was my bad. Like, they'll learn from it. They'll improve as a player.

Like, that's really good. But I think it's kind of meta, at least it has been in the community to, like, yeah, it's all about you. Like, how, who can I blame? if it's not going the way I want, if the game's going to be hard or like a little bit arduous for my personal POV, maybe like maybe it's worth just like giving up. Like let's just open, like running it down. Like whatever the way you want to like like kind of kind of deal with that feeling, I guess. And it kind of like everyone has their own way of dealing with it. Like for me, if I'm juggling and I want to go for Scuddle and their lanes collapse and I lose it or I die, like I'm not going

to run the game down because it happened. Some people will. Some people won't. Some people will keep playing their best. But just from, from my perspective, I'll just be like, okay, that sucks, but, like, what can we do from here? Like, how do we play this game out? Because I really think most select games are winnable. And that's why I try to, like, encourage my team to, like, never give up and, like, play it out and focus on, like, what win conditions that we can find, even if it's, like, a small chance, right? Like, I've gotten flack for this over the years. But, like, yeah, if you start off a game with, like, a 50% chance of winning and, like, your regular ELO and then things are going poorly,

And then it turns out, you know, you're really behind. And maybe it's a 10% chance. A lot of people would just, like, want to go next immediately. And I'm not saying this is correct, but this is, like, how I've always approached it. Like, I want to play for that, like, 10% chance of, like, winning the game, usually, which is, like, very far gone from, like, giving up as soon as you lose, like, the first thing that you're fighting for, which is, like, a scuttle cover or whatever, which is maybe the percent chance to lose the game after that went down by, like,

like, two or three or something like that. Who even knows, like, 1%. Like, I'm not, I don't know exactly. but I don't know it's how did the meta sorry how did the meta become that way uh I think oh sorry sorry no all you like yeah I think over time like I think I think lots of it has to do the riot I think like it's just it's just even like I know what with like the video on the stairs like asking for help and stuff like we've been doing that for years years we've been talking like directly like one-on-one and like a person and stuff

like the toxicity like people like believe in games and stuff like this has been happening age and I think like we've been waiting for so long and it's just never really happened I think something which is like yeah like I'm not lost to the hope right like all this issue that's just kind of spiraled out of complete it's like yeah I agree with that 100% what is video you said video on the stairs oh what does that mean I mean, what, is that Lee Terminal? It was, yeah, it was just like a vlog I did talking about SolarQ and Lee and how Riot hasn't, like, done anything for years and how the system just getting worse.

And people were just, like, abusing it. And, like, there's no consequence and stuff. So it was basically asking, like, riot to, like, fix shit and help us, right? Because I do think a lot of the blame is on riot. You know, like, their system has been broken for, like, so long. and if you like we're talking about people like why people in like this kind of stuff but like if you go into a game and you just like start running it down like you should get punished for that you shouldn't be able to like just queue back up and go into another game and do the same thing and ruin like you know nine other people people's experience but like for so many years like that's just it's like people literally have like ran down like 50 games in a row and like even they're automated to detection systems haven't done anything in a lot of cases so it's just it's been like a pretty big problem for for a while now. So yeah, like the stairs thing was just me sitting down, like doing like a like a vlog talking

about and like asking right to help because like we've been saying the same things for so many years. And at least that video like a lot of people like resonated with the message and like shared it and right like, you know, watched it and responded and stuff like that. But I mean, we're still far from like a good system. But they say, you know, yeah, I mean they say they said like, yeah, we've been. we've been working on stuff like we hear you guys like all this stuff and they've been posting like more consistent updates about like how they're approaching like the systems and toxicity and like you know

fix like improving their automated system um all this kind of things but yeah i mean obviously it takes time um i don't think anyone expects it to like but it's in like a problem for like so many years but with that said like it does take time but um yeah i don't know hopefully hopefully like you know going to next season there'll be a more robust system, I guess, and some of the problems can be addressed, but I don't really know. It's kind of like a wait-and-see thing at this point. So pardon my ignorance, but and does anybody else want to bounce off of what Boyboy said? I want to give people a chance, but I had a couple of like general questions about League. So like, does League have a report system?

Yeah, but it's the most flawed. system ever. It is useless. What do you mean by flawed? How is it flawed? It's flawed in that punishable behavior isn't punished or very rarely is.

Like there have been so many instances where there was blatant things that are against like the Summner's Code or whatever that have been reported but not punished. And then there are like on the complete end

where on the complete other end where there are things that shouldn't like be seen as serious get punished I think like this yeah and is there anything like you guys know what the concept of the behavior score in Dota no you guys heard about this okay so Dota actually has a pretty interesting thing which they implemented a couple of years ago I mean some people complain about the system generally

experience my, generally speaking, my experience with it has been pretty positive. So you have this thing called a behavior score that goes from zero to 10,000. And generally speaking, I don't know exactly how it's like on the back end, you don't really know, I don't know how your behavior score changes. But if you have a high behavior score, you get paired with other people with a high behavior score. And what I tend to find is since they implemented behavior scores, generally speaking, in my games, I've been very surprised by like when I fuck up, people will be like, hey, man, that's okay, don't worry about it. And I also hear that there's an absolute cesspool of like low behavior score people. So like, for example, if you disconnect from a game, you get put into

something called low priority queue, which means they take all the, like all the degenerates and they stick them in games. And literally what can happen is you can get stuck in low priority Q because everyone is inting all the time and it's just like constantly like all the ragers just being paired with each other and

how do you get out of that if you decide that you have to finish all you have to do it's like fucking jail I kid you not it's like purgatory you have to like complete five low priority Q games or something like that and and I've never

I've never I mean I've always been curious but I've never been in low priority Q game before. And so I'm afraid to go in because I'm afraid I'm never going to be able to get out. But I think it is kind of interesting that they have implemented things. And generally speaking, like people are pretty positive in the games that I play. I mean, there's still people who are upset and stuff. And I think in Dota, you know, you're not locked in for 25 minutes. It's 45 minutes, baby.

It's damn near an hour. And so that's that's really painful. And you can't surrender in Dota. There's no conceived button, which also is kind of an interesting design choice. But yeah, what do you guys think about that? I think it's like, I think it's a good idea. I mean, very rarely do I get in a game where everyone's positive? Like very rare.

I probably like one game every month. and I play like 10 games a day or more. So it's very rare, but when you get in those kind of games, even when you're losing, your whole team is so positive. Everyone just has fun about it.

They're like, oh, we're losing. And we just like start playing around and, you know, have fun losing. And that's like the kind of, you know, kind of games I want to play daily, you know, to have more enjoyment playing league. Yeah, I would rather... No, you go to...

Those systems typically only work for, like, lower rating just because there's more people playing so you'll you actually find a match with actual like the amount of positive people i want you reach hard hard i'm pretty low players is lower so yeah um i imagine like maybe if they implement that you take like hours find a game yeah probably why i don't do it yeah uh that's i was going to say something um related to that too so i don't think rye would do something like that because of that problem and also like i mean like they tried with with like the whole honor system right but the thing with the honor system that rye implemented like what ends up happening is usually people just honor like it's like you can honor for

like like like like i think it's like shock calling like what are the other ones guys like i don't even like g like positive and yeah like good game yeah like having like it's like there's like a heart one and then i don't know for me like i just at this point just default like people that like even like yeah i I don't think anyone uses the honor system and the way it was designed. People usually just be like, oh, who like popped off the hardest kind of? And they just honor them.

So if you have like a high honor level, it's usually just like, oh, you just probably like carry like a decent percentage of your games. So, but it's kind of weird because it's called honor and like there's like rewards tied to it. Like you get like little skin capsules and stuff like that. But it doesn't really help in like the sense that like incur,

I don't think it really encourages like those kind of behaviors or like, makes the community truly better. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't have like the numbers like that, but I never felt like it really did anything productive, at least from my perspective. Yeah.

Would you guys describe the league community as toxic? Yes. Yes. Yeah. The majority of it, probably. Really? So you guys, this isn't like a vocal minority kind of thing. He sounds supposed to be.

No, no. This is like public sense that yeah everyone thinks that way everyone will think of because dogs why I'll just have more bad experiences than good ones and playing a game and like you play games for fun normally if you casually you probably just ran to more bad experiences than good interesting you know so this is kind of a random aside but you know the problem with the behavior score system so like you guys is going to be a random question I I have no idea if you guys have any experience with this. You know, if you have a kid who acts out, like, do you guys know what the, like, so if I, let's say there are 10 kids in 10 classes that act out.

Do you guys know what happens when I take all those 10 kids out of those classes and stick them in a class together? Nope. So the interesting thing is that generally speaking, if you want to rehabilitate people, you don't separate. you keep them with like so if you take like a toxic person so if you think about like a you know like if you think about alcoholics for example maybe this is an easier example so if we have a bunch of alcoholics and you actually like put an alcoholic with a group of sober people that's actually how they get sober does that make sense you don't do it by like putting a bunch of alcoholics together and i know people sort of say but isn't alcoholics anonymous like a bunch of alcoholics together Well, yes, but they're also sober. They're sober alcoholics, right? So the interesting thing, the downside, I think, to the behavior score system is that it actually concentrates all of the positivity in one area, which is great if you're a positive person,

but also makes it hopeless for everyone else. And what I'm kind of curious about is, like, you guys talk about, like, the meta has become toxicity. And so what my question is to you guys is, like, how do we change that? And I know you guys have said riot needs to do something, so fine, but, you know, that's them. We got to make everyone positive. How do you do that? I mean, I don't even like, I don't even think, I don't even want, like, the whole community to be, like, like, positive, like, necessarily. Just like, I just wish people would be, like, more mellow, like, chill, like, not, like, you know, so, just getting so hypey and, like, vicious.

on each other for like, you know, maybe having a bad game or, you know, playing poorly or whatever, like, you know, whatever their perceived, like, offenses. I don't know. I just like, it's just so easy to tear people down, whether you're playing a game or, like, watching a stream or, like, you know, posting a Reddit comment or, like, a YouTube comment, like, whatever. Like, I know this is, like, it's the internet. Like, I don't know. It's, it's kind of, I mean, you're asking, like, what can we do about it. Like, it's just, I just, it's just hard when, like, you, a lot of places that you look, it's like there's so much negativity and, you know, it can be draining over time, even if it's not even directed at you, right? Just seeing it, like, so consistently. And honestly, I have no idea.

Like, like, like, I said, you know, just, I feel like trying, like, on our, like, we're just, like, we're just like a few streamers, right? Like, people, I'm sure there's a lot of people watching this or like you know might hear like this combo that might might you know be a part of people that want want like a more chill community like want more positivity like less less you know negative hypey behavior um but like you know what what can we all do right like that's the thing like it's it just feels like it just feels like i'm not going to say like like for example i've been sorry i'm like saying like a lot and so i'm not i'm trying to figure out like where i'm going with this but it's like I've been streamed for like 10 years almost like Lee and I feel like I've always tried to

you know set a good example and like do my best not like not like being fake like I'll get mad all like I'll I'll be like this guy literally through the game like I'll call people out but like I've just tried my best to like not be the the things that you know I feel like really tear me down or tear other people down that I see it sometimes in the community and it just feel like all I just feel like at the end of the day like what did I really accomplish like it just feels like there's so much overwhelming, like, negativity around, and it feels like there's nothing I can really do on an individual level,

or, like, you know, we can really do to, like, change that. That's, that's honestly, like, like, Danny said it's, like, a hopeless war. Like, I'm not saying I, like, I've, like, given up or anything like that, but it really just feels like, like, like, I have, like, we have no clue, like, what we could possibly do to, like, change, change that.

It's like, we're waiting for reinforcements, but all we get is, like, little, Timmy, the little, wagging little sword in the back. But some key fragments. Yeah. Where's our help? Yeah, what I'm hearing is that positive league players are an endangered species. Yes, sir.

I get the sense. I mean, this hopeless war analogy of like, you guys are like, you know, stalwart warriors falling one at a time. And every time one of you falls, you, like, look behind you see a preenforcement's coming and no one's coming. It sounds pretty bleak, to be honest. guys sounds hard um again like i'm not sitting here pretending to be a very very positive person i'm not and i i also don't think that it's realistic to think that there is a day that's going to come where the majority of the community is going to be positive um however i think like with the

like it it it's undeniable that it has been a downward spiral because a few scenes reasons ago it was never the way that it is today. So I'm just so curious as to what happened. There must have been like this, it's like a community, but it's also like a culture in a way, where it's become normalized to be toxic. And like I'm not sure where that comes from. Maybe it's just from the fact that most people don't play this as a job. and they just queue up for a game of leak to like escape or lash out or whatever the case may be.

But I just wonder like I'm really not sure how it got to this point. Yeah, you know, I think that's a fascinating question. I sometimes wonder so pretty much like there are big trends that are happening. So sometimes I wonder if the trends that we see in gaming have nothing to do with Riot or the actual games. They have to do with the people. in it. So what has happened to people's lives over the last three or four years? Generally speaking, one thing that we know is that mental illness has now surpassed heart disease and cancer and is now number one in the United States for what we call morbidity and

mortality, which means that like the burden of disease is now worse. So we're number one. So something is going on with people's minds in general, like across the developed world. Probably also true in like third world countries or developing countries as well. But generally speaking, like people's minds are becoming more toxic. And I wonder if that has something to do with it. Like I think there are big macro trends. I do think that I'm not ready to give up hope yet. And I know that you guys, and that's probably because I'm new and naive. And I'm Timmy with a little sort. Because I just don't know.

We're training little Timmy though. Huh? We got to train little Timmy though. Sure. So maybe Little Timmy needs to learn how it is. But I have a couple of like crazy thoughts. I mean, so I think the first is that I think we can understand as a community like how, where like tilt comes from.

And I think we have to understand it like tilt. The reason that tilt happens and the reason that there's so much toxicity is because I think it feels good. Like we said earlier, I know it sounds kind of bizarre, but being positive is going to wipe you out in four hours. Raging at the internet is like something that you can sustain for hours on end. And I don't quite understand why that is or how that is. I think part of it feels like very validating or resonant for lack of a better term. like it feels right and so you know

you can do a lot of things that feel right whereas like you know restraining yourself like we were talking about earlier if you feel hopeless if you don't want to display your negativity that comes at a cost whereas like letting loose and I think it kind of goes back to what Karim was saying earlier about you know you can rage when you lose

or you can learn and Karim why do you think why don't you think people pick learn I think either because they don't want to learn and play the game casually or because it is the harder, like, route to take. So what makes it harder? And this kind of comes back to what Danny was saying about perspective, right? So Danny was saying, like, if people can get perspective, they don't tell. So what makes perspective hard?

Why don't people have perspective? just do something different. I'm sorry? You got to do something different to like learn that. Yeah, I'll say again, like they, they just fall into the same routine that they don't want to change or do anything different because it's just easy. Easy to do the same thing. What makes it easy to do the same thing? Because you know it.

You know what to do. You feel comfortable doing it. You're in your zone. You don't want to step out of that zone. Yeah. You're not really challenging yourself and putting it. yourself in a position to fail, I guess, when you're doing the same thing that you know. You're putting other people in a position to fail.

Because fuck them. If you're going to fail, they're going to fail too. Right. I'm diving the top tower. Your ass is coming with me. If I'm going to have a bad game, you're going to have a bad game. Yeah, so I think that's a big part of it. So like, here are a couple of, I mean, you guys have anything else?

Like I feel like sort of I have a couple of conclusions to share with you guys. I'm just curious what you think. And I wanted to sort of give you guys some chances to respond or tell me I'm an idiot and tilt. Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah. Because I think I've learned a lot from what y'all have to say. And I'll start with this once again.

I've said it two or three times already. But the first thing is that it blows my mind how parallel what you guys are describing is to actual real life. And it kind of starts with this idea of expectation. Right? So I'll give you guys just like a real life example. Let's say I'm smart because that's what we are as gamers, right? We're smart. And then we go to school and we've been smart.

So like I've gotten straight A's through the sixth grade. You know in seventh grade. You don't have to flex on us. Huh? I say you didn't have to flex on it. Oh, straight A's through the sixth grade is flexing now. And so I go to the seventh grade and I find that I get a B. And then what does that mean about me being smart?

What do you guys think? It threatens it a little bit. Absolutely. So how do I get an A? What do I have to do now in seventh grade? You got to study. And what is studying say about me being smart? You're not as smart as you thought you were.

You're damn right. It's interesting, right? So what I need to do actually threatens who I am. I'm stuck, I'm screwed, paralyzed. Because if I study, I'm not smart anymore. And if I don't study, I'm going to get a B and I'm not smart anymore. So what is the only way I can preserve my intelligence? Is now?

Not studying. And still. And what? I'm still getting A's? Nope. It's actually to stop trying. Yeah, you just don't even get tested or whatever. Absolutely.

Yeah, you just don't want to see the result. Absolutely. You're damn right. I just say, oh, yeah, I don't care about learning English. I read Dostoevsky in my free time. I don't need to read this middle school shit. You denigrate it. And then it's okay to get to be because you're smart.

So it starts with an expectation. I don't know how exactly that translates into league, but I think there's something in there about not learning and not getting better. It's the easy road, right? Kareem was like, it's hard to learn. Danny's like, it's hard to change who you are. So these people preserve who they are because it's easier. So I'm going to be bronze and call everyone else a shitty.

Bronze is a rank in league. Is that right? Yeah. I don't know. Okay. So like I'm going to stay bronze and I'm just going to call everyone else shitties. So I think there's something there. The second thing is like, oh man, Gigi go next.

Oh God, if there's one problem in our society right now, it's Gigi go next. Because this is what we do. Like people who are stuck at home, they wake up one day and they're like, yeah, today I'm going to learn how to code. And they load up league. And then what happens after one hour is they tell themselves Gigi go next. And you know what next is? It's tomorrow. And then they wake up tomorrow.

They're like, today I'm going to learn how to code. And they play one game and they say, G, G, G, go next. Right? It's like the first five minutes when you lose the scuttle, you give up on the game and you're like, G, G, go next. I want it to be perfect. Otherwise, it's not the game that I envisioned. Oh, shit. Like, coding turns out that it's like, it's way muddier and it's not the expectation that I had.

Like, I knew what I wanted to do this game. I was going to be a Tarzan or whatever. And I was going to own everyone, 1V9, and someone ruined it for me. So fuck that. Expectation. And we have expectations for our rise from the shittiness of our life. Right? We're going to be transformed.

And like some people are like, I'm going to be the next boy boy. I'm going to be the next positive streamer. I'm going to be the next Kareem. I'm going to be the next XYZ. And I'm going to become a big league streamer. And then when things don't go their way, when they start streaming, for like two or three days and they have like 30 viewers they're like ah screw that like it's easier to say gg go next and give up than it is to actually like try to learn and that kind of gets

to this issue of like you know what are our choices either we rage or we learn and there is something really really awesome about raging and giving up because it feels good it just feels really good it feels really good to say gg go next and i thought it was really interesting so if you guys listened to Karim's words, he said, it feels good, but you know it's not the right thing. And I think there are a lot of people on Twitch who do things because they feel good and they know it's not the right thing. Like, you know you should stop playing league after one game and like maybe learn how to code. But there's that voice in all of us that's like, it's not the right. What I'm doing is not the right thing, but I want to do it anyway because it feels good.

So then the question is why do you get that? Is this okay? Am I just ranting? Am I losing you guys? No, you're great. No, that's good. I was awesome. Okay. So then we get to like, okay, so then why is that? And I think it's beautiful because you guys gave it to us like in the first five seconds of stream. Ego. Right? If we think about like, like where does ego go into this? I think a lot of toxicity comes from ego. A lot of toxicity comes from this idea that like, like I'm intelligent, like I have this identity is. I'm very smart. Look at how five head I am. And the more that we attach ourselves to that identity of I am this way,

like the more we get to this bass-acquard sort of situation where like I get a B in class and I'm relegating myself to Bs or C's or D's or dropping out for the rest of my life. Because that's what G-G-Go-Nex looks like. For the people who are 23 and living at home and watching Twitch all day, I love you guys. But your problem started when you started saying G-G-G-G-G-G-G. next. So the really crazy thing that I had never envisioned before is that an antidote to this problem

of all places is League of Legends. This is the really crazy thought. And I'd never really thought about this until this moment. But the way you guys are describing League of Legends makes me think that if you can take a toxic player and transform them in League of Legends, the same formula is what's necessary to transform your real life. Because it's the same shit. It's easy. It's easy. It's expectation. It's perspective. What does perspective mean? Perspective is something that I would call attachment.

You are one in the game. Your identity is lost in the game. It's not just a game. It's everything. For that person in that moment, league is everything. And you fucking asshole, you took my scuttle, you're taking everything away from me. And so how do you cultivate that perspective? Right?

Because some of you guys are able to do it, but it's like really hard. And even in your case, boy, boy, I think you could bet everyone can benefit from perspective. When you have 100% perspective, you guys know what we call that or what people, what another term for that is? And it's kind of a weird open-ended question. When you have like 100% perspective all the time, that's what Buddha called enlightenment. Distance from the thing that you are doing. The ability to recognize that all of your emotions that get wrapped up. up in that is not a real thing, but it feels so real in that moment. It's being able to take distance

from it and saying, like, that's just the game. And what would they realize is that life is actually just one big game, and you don't have to get bent out of shape. That life can do happy things to you, but this is a big revelation that he had. Most of what sucks about life is what we do to ourselves when life does something to us. Like, because the damage doesn't come when we get a B, the damage comes the way that we respond to the B. When I lose Scuttle, I haven't lost a League of Legends game. What causes me to lose the League of Legends game? When I run down mid.

And this is the shocking thing that I don't think people get, is that most of what's ruining their lives is not the Scuttle. It's the fucking running down mid. And this is where things like you guys, I know y'all are hopeless. But this is what gives me hope. I know it sounds crazy. you may not have control over the shuttle, but you actually have control over running down mid.

And so you can actually win that game. In fact, it's probably pretty, your chances are like maybe 51-49, or like 49-51, like not in your favor after losing a scuttle. But the way that we respond to what life gives us is ultimately what determines whether we win or we lose. And that's like really, really bizarre, but I refer back to the studying example.

Because getting a B, it's like weird, but we get on this trajectory of like throwing. And we just throw it life. And then we feel hopeless. But here's the crazy thing. Like so let me ask you guys, when someone loses scuttle and starts running down mid, on a scale of one to 10, 10 being completely hopeless and one being having all the hope in the world, where are? Where are they? Where are they? Oh. In the game? No, like on a scale of hopelessness. In the context of the game? Yeah, in the context of the game. Oh, I mean, like hope, like hopeless, I guess.

Absolutely, right? Yeah. So, but the funny thing there is it's the hopelessness which causes them to run down men. It's the hopelessness which causes us to not act. Hmm. But the crazy thing is that the hopelessness is like kind of, false. Like we know that in the context of League of Legends, right? Like, you're not actually like what fuck, man? You just lost a hundred gold item.

Like, we can still dumpster these shitties. Just play the fucking game. Mm-hmm. But that's not what we do because once we feel hopeless, then we don't see like in that moment we're not able to see. And what is it that lets us see? Danny Lee, baby, perspective. perspective. Hey, take a step back, man. And this is the other thing that would the top. Expectation leads to attachment. Attachment leads to suffering. I'm like, I shit you guys not. If you guys go back and you read the Polly or the Sunscrut. It's exactly what you guys said about League of Legends. When I go into the game, I'm going to get, I'm going to get

to the top scuttle first, or left scuttle or right scuttle, whatever, one of the scuttles. I'm going to beat the other jungle player to it. And then I'm going to go and I'm going to get the bottom scuttle two. And then I'm going to be 200 G up. I'm going to buy this item. I'm a gang mid. We're going to roll these fuckers. Expectation, attention. Now I'm going to leave you guys with one other question. Who is more likely to tilt? The person who goes 2 and 0 in a game or the person who goes 0 in a game? I think it depends on player themselves. Okay. It's rough. Because like, I mean, there's games where I'll be like, I'll be like 10 and 0. like hard smurfing and then like I'll make one mistake and like we'll lose like an

objective or something and I'll feel really bad I'll be I'll actually be like pre-tilted but I mean I can still bounce back and those games where I'm just getting camped and I'll be like oh and five but I know we can win and I know that like you know the jungler's permatop we're getting stuff on the other side of the map like you know it's it's like a balance like and there's some games like I'm just I'm just like completely neutral and I'll be tilted like pretty hard and I know it's like a pretty big spectrum for everybody. I agree. So, yeah, go ahead.

I think it's a lot more likely for the 02 to turn into an 010 than for the 2O to turn into 28. Not in that, the 2O might not be tilted. They might be tilted, but still continue to try. But once you're 2-0, or once you're 02, there's that level of hopelessness that settles in and the more you die, the worse it gets. okay if that makes sense yep so like if you go oh and two so i i think that there's a subtle thing there did some i'm sorry did somebody else want to say that oh okay so so i i think that there's a there's a really

interesting thing there right so i hear what you guys are saying i think it is like kind of a simple i mean it's a complex it's a complicated issue that i'm trying to turn into a simple question to illustrate a point so i i definitely know people who go oh and two who feel super fucking tilted Because what was supposed to happen? I was supposed to go 2-0. They're supposed to be 2-0. Right? And so here's the crazy thing.

So most of chat seems to think that 2-0 is more likely to tilt. And why is that? I think it's because once you're 2-0, what do you expect to happen for the rest of the game? You expect everything to go in your favor? Absolutely. So when you're 0-2, absolutely. When you're 0-2 and you're,

get a kill, how do you feel? Relieved. Get a shut down. Okay. When you're 2 and 0 and you die, how do you feel? Like you just threw? Absolutely, right? So it's about expectation. Expectation is key. What do you expect every day when you wake up?

And the more that you expect, the closer you are to the thing, I don't know how else to put that. I don't know if that makes sense. And then you lose perspective. And the more that you can separate yourself out, the less or expectation will melt away. You can see, like, there's no expectation is about being invested. Does that make sense? Like, I can expect certain things to happen, but they're not going to bother me unless I'm invested. I can go into a game and I can be like, okay, I should win because this is a favorable matchup.

But, like, maybe I won't. And then you do well. And so the crazy thing here is that when it comes down to it, I think, that like, okay, how to wrap up. So like, let me just try to piece this together. So I see, I see a lot of this stuff around expectation and perspective of gaining perspective. And I also see like some themes where I get that you guys are hopeless, but I don't, I'm not hopeless. And that's probably just because I haven't played enough legal legends. And the reason that I'm not hopeless is I think that you guys are hopeless for the same reason. I think there's some

common element although your situation does sound genuinely are we dropping what's going on i think boy and then you just deceived ggg go next yeah gg go next next next stream gg disclos gg there's lots of talk of gg go next we lost voice anyway i forgot what i was saying did you guys y'all remember sometimes i just start going and i don't remember exactly where I was. I do that.

Nope. I mean, we cut out, so I don't know. I was listening intently, but then I was. Yeah, you're here. I was listening, right? Okay. Anyway, I don't know what I was saying, but okay, let me try to get it back. So I was talking to you guys about like expectation, right?

So that the reason of the two O person tilts is because they have an expectation that they're going to continue to dumpster. And it's that expectation that actually screws them. because the second that you tell yourself like, oh, I got this shit. I got this shit on lock. That's the moment that you open yourself up to tilt. And if it's sort of like, hey, I've got an advantage, let's see if we can turn this into a 3-0, but maybe they'll compensate. And by the way, like, I'm worth way more because now I'm on a kill streak.

Right. So there's like a rubber band mechanic built into the game. This is definitely not on lock. Let's see if I can dumpster these shitties. So there's a big difference between I'm going to and let's see if. Anyway, this kind of gets back to the sort of the last issue of like, what do we do about toxicity and league? And I hear that, you know, hopefully Riot does more. They're working on it.

It sounds like pretty cool and hopeful. At the same time, I would be careful about underestimating your own impact. So one of the things that you kind of learn as a therapist is that oftentimes, you know, you don't realize like how helpful you are like if i'm if i'm working with someone who's got bad depression they come into my office every week and they're like depressed every week what am i going to feel like i'm going to feel like i'm doing a good job maybe not so sometimes the most important thing that you can offer someone is like your constancy in the face of hopelessness so i cannot underplay how important it is

that you guys do what you do. Because there's a lot of victory in overcoming hopelessness. There's something like wonderfully noble about standing against it anyway. Right? So you guys are on the front lines. Everyone except for Kareem. So Kareem doesn't play.

A little bit behind us. Right. So like just the fact that you guys show up day after day dealing with the shit that you deal with, I don't think you guys realize like how important that is and don't underestimate your inability to see it for the lack of effect. Because if we listen to Kareem,

you know, he's kind of saying three years ago, things weren't like this. So oftentimes we as human beings don't realize how profound of an impact we have on other human beings. We don't see it, but it doesn't mean that it isn't important. And I've seen time and time and time again that all it takes is like one person to like transform something, like a community.

And in your case, like, I don't know exactly what's going to come from this. I find it hard to believe that anyone who's watching this stream is going to be more likely to tilt or rage at the end of the stream. I have to say that something about what you guys have shared and the perspective that we've gained is going to positively impact things in some way. I just you know

I don't I don't think what you guys say is rage inducing I don't think it tilts people more I think it's actually like positive and inspiring and something tells me like people who are watching have to go into their league games at some point and like maybe rage a little bit less

what do you guys think about that yeah it makes sense um like I had you know sometimes I get you know hate mail or hate messages people will just hate on me for no reason. Like, I haven't done anything to them.

I'm very positive and stuff. So I don't see why they hate me. That's why they would just. Oh, okay. We'll talk about that in a second, but keep going. I didn't mean to derail you. Oh, yeah. Usually, you know, I just ignore those kind of messages, but I did respond to one.

I said, I don't know why you hate me, but I hope the best for you. And it was crazy because he responded back in a, it's like, why are you questioning the best for me? Like, I'm making like, I hate you and all stuff. But wow, man, thank you. And he starts being more positive. So I was like, oh, okay, well, that's cool. I think he got lucky there, bro. I know.

I got the one person I responded to. No, but I think so, so does anybody have any idea why so many people hate Chris? Yes, let me know, guys. Why do you hate me? No, there's no way. why do you guys think people hate him or i shouldn't say so many people i should say the ones that hate him a lot and take the time out of their day to dm him why do you guys think that is i think like maybe trying to spread like a positive message or at least a different message in their eyes that like

how you're thinking it's like different from theirs in a sense you're telling them they're wrong or in a way i think yep it's terrifying so like Let me ask you guys a question. We're going to go back to the sixth grader who's now in seventh grade and got to be on a test. And who's debating between do I stop studying or do I study and then therefore I lose my smartness? And then like the person that that, who does that person hate the most? It's the person who they perceive as smart, who they one day find out has been studying. Right.

So I think, I think, Chris, the reason that people send you hateful message. is because if they had chosen differently, they could have been who you are. They see themselves in you. The thing that inspires, in my opinion, the most vitriolic hate is when you see the person that you are making the choice that you didn't make. That's hard. The most engaging to the ego. Because I can't tolerate that because of Sanchez does it. That means that my entire life has been a lie.

Maybe it's because the champions you spam. Yeah. Like Cinge. Fucking. People watch Chris's stream, and then as a result, they're picking Cinched in by games, and they're losing. Yeah. So fuck you. Sorry, man.

I'm trying to teach them the right way. So any kind of, we've been running at it for close to, like, hour and a half or so a little over you guys have any like thoughts or questions well i guess what you said about how we do have an impact even if we can't always see it um yeah definitely i definitely like appreciate or and understand that like like i'll get message i'll get like hate messages but i'll also get like you know positive message from people would be like hey boy like just like watching your stream, like, just seeing, like, you know, how you, how you are in game and, like, how you don't give up and just keep trying and, and try to, like, rally your team

up and stuff. Like, it helped me out, like, not only in game, but also, like, in, like, other aspects of life, which I, I personally, I don't, I don't really understand because, like, for me, it's, like, pretty easy to, like, think about wind conditions in league and, like, know, like, how we can come back in the game, even if it's losing and stuff like that. but like, you know, translating that, like, you're, like, you were talking about how, like, we can, like, have an example for, like, real life. Like, translating it to my own life, it's, like, a lot harder, right?

Like, I think in league, like, I can all, it's really easy for me, like, be positive because I understand the game and I understand, like, how we can win, like, what are the options? Like, if it's hopeless, then I'll be like, all right, well, maybe we lost this. But, like, in life, it's just, it's just so much of a mystery, right? And there's just so many unknowns and, like, so much that it's not, like, a game, like, in league where like the rules are I guess. What's the difference between real life and league

when it comes to you? I don't know. That's really hard actually. Sorry. Yeah. So it's kind of a weird-ass question. Does anyone even understand the question? I get it,

but I think it's such a like a special case. I think like Voie has put it. his life into the game. So League in a way has become his life. You're damn right. Yeah.

So he says life is so much harder. And that's because Boy is dedicated a decade of his life to understanding League. And, boy, how much of your life have you dedicated to understanding life? Probably stopped about a decade ago, if my calculations are correct. Not exactly, but... Yeah. Only reason to me that it is harder than league for you is because you have taken, and I know this is going to sound weird and evoke memes, but you have taken your massive intellect and

dedication and you have put it into one thing for a decade. And then you're saying, oh, shit, this is so much easier than this other thing. Well, no fucking wonder, man, that's because you've been investing in it for a decade. Yeah. When you feel like that. So let me explain something to you guys. life is not actually harder than games. The big difference is we just don't fucking practice one.

Like, we don't think about it. We don't try to improve. We don't do replay analysis. We don't watch streamers. Think about someone that you know that's good at life. Think about someone that you know that's good at league. How do you learn from the league player? You watch their fucking stream.

How do you learn from the person at life? you don't. If they try to have a conversation with you, you run for the hills. Oh shit, he's good at life. I'm a reject who plays law all day. I can't interact with him. Like, this is the thing that blows my mind. Like, I've literally taken, like, these, like, cases.

So this is, like, something. So I was in a class at Harvard Business School, okay? And I had this case for a bunch of fucking, there were 100 physicians in a class at Harvard Business School. And they gave me this case study, which is like a complex problem. It's like a 16-page thing about optimizing revenue

in a urology clinic. I took this case to a group of my gamer buddies and I was like, what do you guys think about this? They work on it for a day, tell me what they think. I go into class the next day,

and they're like, what do people think about the case? I raise my hand and I say what my gamer buddies told me. Professor is impressed. Just turn your focus. It's about, your attention and your focus. Think about the way that you play the game of

league. Think about all of the struggles that you go through all the energy you expend in streaming. You don't expend a fraction of that in the rest of your life. So like no wonder you suck at it. But it doesn't mean that you suck. You suck at it. You're not bad. You just haven't invested in it bro. Like that's what I'm telling you guys. Like I invested a couple years of my life into learning how I work as a human being and absolutely worth the investment. Where does desire come from? What is the nature of attachment and suffering? Who is more likely to tilt? Two and O or O and two? How do you work as a human being? Learn these things.

I think you guys actually understand a lot of stuff. Y'all have a leg up because you all seem to be good league players. That means you guys are like smart and dedicated. And if you just shift the focus, you'll be amazed at what you can learn. You guys just don't know the vocation. It's like, boy, boy, today's been to feels like shit, feels like shit, feels like shit. Right? And that's just because it's like, what's, like, if I came to you guys and I said, you're like, hey, Dr. Kay, how's the league game going? And I'm like, I lose. They're like, why do you lose? I suck. And then I play again and they're like, why'd you lose that game? I suck. I suck you guys realize

like you don't lose a game of League of Legends because you suck right like you lose a game because of all kinds of complicated reasons which no one understands because I just don't I haven't spent the time with it oh I don't know how to last it I'm rotating poorly I bought the wrong items

I had a singed on my team top gap I think it's good that'll hate on the cinch right you see how easy it is to adopt the toxicity I don't even know who singed is like Nate unsitched. Toxicity comes so natural.

But boy, boy, dude, and for the rest of you all, too, and everyone watching at home, just put a fraction of what you put into league into the rest of your life, you will be amazed. Because this is the thing that people don't understand. Everyone thinks gamers suck. Like, I think gamers are the biggest untapped potential in the world today.

No one gives them any kind of respect or any kind of responsibility. This entire organization was built on rejects. Healthy Gamer, built on rejects. Built from people from our community. We said, you know what? Actually, I don't care that you haven't graduated from college. We'll give you a shot. Don't let us down. And it's been amazing. Absolutely amazing. And so just take this dedication and look at other parts of your life, man. And you'll be amazed. You guys are badasses. Y'all are giants in the making.

You guys are already giants fighting against the hopeless hordes of toxic zombies who are inting right and left at high-elow, which I hear is really bad, actually, in league. You'd expect, you know, high-elow to be, like, less toxic, but I hear it's bad. And y'all are awesome.

And you guys are inspiring other people whether you realize it or not. And if y'all weren't there, like, imagine what would happen? The hordes would take over, right? There's someone somewhere out there who watches your games goes into a League of Legends game and then decides to try to emulate you. And I think as long as you guys keep at it, you may not see the change, but I think it'll happen.

Generally speaking, that's been my experience. If you study, like, you may not get a B right, you may not get an A right away. You may get a B for a little while. You keep working at it, and you'll learn how to study you'll get better and you'll start getting A's. Can I ask a question? Oh, sorry. Yeah. Danny, I'm sorry, you wanted to say something, and then we'll get to Kareem's question.

Oh, I'll just say. like yeah once you know we'll stop trying i mean we're fucked so as long as people try in an effort maybe other people put an effort too yep so if you try maybe you're fucked and if you don't try you're certainly fucked kareem you had a question yeah i just had a question relating to um bettering yourself as a person and then translating that into league where we talk about the analogy of the a student going into B. What does practice or studying in that case look like for somebody who is trying to better themselves mentally? Someone who used to be good mentally and then finds themselves not good mentally? Or somebody that's just not good mentally and that's never been good trying to

get good. So how do you get good when it comes to me? you're mental. Right. It's a fantastic question. So the answer to that question is what healthy gamer is all about, and I can't answer it simply, but I'm going to try anyway. Right. So I think, honestly, Kareem, the foundation is awareness in noticing. So the first thing to recognize is that, so too many times do people,

especially within our community, equate their value as a person with a particular thing outside of themselves. First thing to understand. Just because you're bad at life does not mean you're bad. But most people don't think like that. Like if I can't find a date to prom, what does that say about me as a human? Nothing. Incorrect. That's technically true and actually true. But what do I think about? myself boy that no one likes you not just that no one likes me that I'm not worth liking do you guys see the difference between those two statements because there's an entire chasm no one likes me I'm not worth liking so the first thing for him is to disidentify yourself with your problem I'm not a bad

league player I'm just a nude there's a huge difference between sucking at Lee and being a new, which I know we equate the two, right? Like even in our society and in our community, we equate the two. But lack of experience is different from like talent or value. So the first thing is that you may not, you're not bad at life, you just haven't learned how to live it. Because how have you tried? So that's, I know that sounds weird, but that's actually the foundation. That's the first thing.

Second thing is, okay, so fine, I accept I haven't learned how to live it. How do I learn how to live it? And so I'll teach you guys how to meditate in a minute. But I'd say oftentimes the biggest and most important foundation is awareness. So you have to understand what is going on inside you. And the cool thing is like you can do that any number of ways. You just have to pay attention. So it can be something as simple as the next time you play So Cream,

you say you're not like these positive dickwads here. But like some days you're super toxic in league. and some days you're less toxic in league. Right? Yeah. Sure. So what's the difference? It just kind of depends.

There are outside, I guess, variables, and also depending on how previous games have gone, it's very easy to sort of get caught up on something that's happened in the past. Having one event in a certain game dictate the way that you're moved. is for the rest of your games that day. Okay. So like that's a, that's a decent answer, but it's not nearly specific. Right. So you say, so you have vague strokes of like shit that happened in the previous game affects me in this game. So then the question becomes if you want to get good at life,

you have to figure out what is it in the game that affects you? What is it that carries over to the next game? What is it that stays behind? What has to happen for me to get from point A to point B? What are all of those variables? And getting good at life is about understanding those. A simple example. If I don't sleep well, what happens to me? So getting good at life is an understanding, like, how you function as a person. And that starts with paying attention.

And here's a kind of a pitch that I give to people when I'm trying to convince them to hire me for consulting. So I'll go to like a corporation or like a startup or something and I'll say, what's the difference between a good day and a bad day? What do you guys think? So I'll go to like a hospital. I'll have a group of surgeons, like 40 surgeons in a room, and I'll ask them, what's the difference between a good day and a bad day? You fucked up in surgery today. Why? What do you guys think? I'm actually not sure. I don't know.

Do people have good days? Yeah. Do people have bad days? Yeah, yeah. What's the difference? Like, let's just think about this from a surgeon's perspective. So you went through your train. So you went through your training on Monday. Your training was, let's say, 15 years and one day.

And you make a mistake. And then on Tuesday, your training is 15 years and two days. And you do a good job. Has your biology changed? Has your brain changed? Have you lost dexterity? Do you know less surgery? Did you forget some surgery?

No. Ridiculous. How can human beings, like just think about this for a second. If our cars worked like we do as human beings, no one would ever drive a car. That's true. Crazy. And so what is this pile that we call humanity? Like, how do we work?

No one understands this shit. What's the difference between a good day and a bad day? And everyone's like, I don't know, but I have good days and I have bad days. So why don't you start fucking paying attention? That's number one. The next time you have a bad day, try to like ask yourself, because this is the cool thing, is you guys can actually come up with answers if you bother to try. Think about how you guys learned League of Legends.

You took this thing up here, which is actually pretty badass, and you pointed it at something. And then as long as you pointed at something, you're going to figure shit out. Does that make sense? Yep. You're going to get better. You just have to point it in the right direction.

How long have you spent pointing it at yourself? Not much. So pointed it at yourself. That's what awareness is. Why am I having a bad day today? What's the best that I can figure out? Then you experiment. What happens if I sleep?

How much did I sleep yesterday? Is there a correlation? Be scientific. Study yourself. And the third thing you can do is like read. So reading is good, but like you should use it to inform what you understand. Because the cool thing about this is you guys actually know all this stuff. Right.

Boy Boy knows how it feels. He knows it's draining. The reason it feels shitty is because it's draining. Why is it draining? Because is Perim put together? I have two choices. I can rage or I can learn. One is easy and feels good.

One is hard. One requires more mana. So I want you guys to think about League of Legends as like expending mana. Every time you rage, you fill up your mana bar. And every time you control that rage, you drain your mana bar. At some point, your mana bar runs out. And then what do you start doing? Raging.

Absolutely. You guys know this stuff, right? So you know what they call manabar in regular people speak? willpower, right? So every day when boy boy logs on, he's got a manabar with a hundred points of willpower. Every time someone puts a bounty on his ass, he loses it. It's not feeling, like sure there's feelings and stuff, but this is a principle of science. Boy boy boy is a human being. You can only put up with so many bounties before you crack. It has nothing to do with your strength as a person, your resilience, your worth, but that's what it feels like. But as a human being, you have limits. You just don't know what they are.

And Danny's got some of this shit too, right? Because he's talking about perspective. So Buddha says, expectation is where suffering comes from. Then there's this third principle of it's what we do to ourselves because of what life does to us. That really screws us. This is the principle of two arrows. Life shoots one arrow at us, hits us. The second arrow is the one that we shoot at ourselves because we got hit by the first one.

It's fucking dumb, but we do it all the time. Right? So like start to understand these basic principles about yourself and look at yourself and you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish. Does that answer your question? Sort of ranted at you for a minute. Because it's a really complex question, but I wanted to try to give you a good answer. Other questions. I wanted to ask about meditation and how obviously it helps.

we all know that it helps, but not to get too specific because I know it will take a while, but how it helps and how to use it, um, like efficiently. Sure. That actually is not too hard of the question. So when you say how it helps, what, what kind of help are we talking about? Talking about like tilt prevention? Right. And in keeping that manna at 100.

Okay. So keeping the man at 100 and tilt prevention are two different things. Okay. Okay, so I know that sound, so let me explain. So let's talk about both of them. The first thing is one form of meditation. I'm going to teach you guys two techniques today. So yeah, I'll teach you two.

One is going to help you with tilt. Actually, both of them will help you with tilt and both them help you with mana, but their mechanisms are different. So in terms of tilt prevention, how do you feel like what are the emotions that you experience when you're tilting? sad, frustrated, embarrassed, sad, jay. Okay. Right. So what do you guys think is happening to your heart rate when you're tilted? Goes up.

Yep. Sometimes you have diaphoresis or sweating. Right? Your body is activated. You're pissed. You're angry. You're in fighting mode. So that, I don't know how else to say this, but that is actually governed by

physiology. Does that make sense? Like there are hormones that are flowing through your body that actually increase your heart rate and make you feel angry So there are some chemicals that can make you feel angry and other chemicals that will make you feel sad or calm or whatever So the first thing is I'm going to teach you guys a technique called alternate nostril breathing that literally balances the two modes of your central nervous system So your central nervous system. So we have two kinds of of nervous system, a peripheral nervous system, which is all the nerves in our hands and fingers and everything outside of the brain and the spinal cord. And then we have this thing called the

central nervous system, which is our brain and our spinal cord. Our central nervous system has two modes of operation. It has a yin and a yang, or a suria and a chandra, which means a sun and a moon, or what's scientifically called a sympathetic or a parasympathetic nervous system. And what that means that our body has two modes. It has a fight or flight mode. Right. So you guys can think about this as like stances. So we have a fight or flight stance and we have a rest and digest stance. One stance is for activity. One stance is for like recuperation. So what happens after you haven't eaten for eight hours and you eat a gigantic ass burrito? What happens to your body and your mind? Boot coma? Absolutely. Right. So how the fuck does that work?

So what is a food coma? A coma implies a mental function. You guys get that? Yeah. So what happens, Chris, in your mind after you eat a burrito and you're in a food coma? What does that mean? What does it feel like to be in a food coma? Yeah, sleepy.

Yep. So why does that happen? Because the parasympathetic nervous system is engaged. So when we eat a big meal, our body says, yo, bro, we have a lot of this food in our stomach. we're going to literally divert blood from our brain, our arms, and our legs, and increase the size of our diameter, not size, of arteries to our stomach and our intestines to digest this food. And as a result, you literally get sleepy. It's because there's literally less blood flow going to your brain. So on the flip side, tilt is the opposite of the food coma.

You feel angry, agitated. Your thoughts move fast. Also, your peripheral vision collapses from like 120 degrees to 30 degrees when your sympathetic nervous system is active. This is what adrenaline does. Literally, you cannot see outside the sides of your vision when you have adrenaline. Also does it cognitively. So we see that cognitively when you're tilted, you can't consider things out here. You're just zeroing it on the scuttle. And this goes back to what day. Danny was saying, perspective, you lose perspective. Literally, adrenaline causes a collapse of your peripheral vision and a collapse of your cognitive vision to only see one thing. The fucking scuttle. So there's actually a practice, which I can teach you, which will balance those two nervous systems. It'll turn one off and turn the other one on. And literally, glad you're yawning, boy boy, the other thing that it can do is it can balance the other way too. So So what it really does is it balances them. So we're going to see, and boy, you should yawn.

If you guys feel like yawning, you guys should just go ahead and yawn. I was gonna say it. I was gonna say I just didn't sleep much so it's not like I'm, I wasn't like board or anything. I'm not offended. Don't worry about it. I think if you need to yawn, you should listen to the signals of your body. Okay. And you may yawn more, so that's okay.

So we're gonna see, so I think it's actually useful because like if you're tired right now, let's see how you feel after the meditation practice. And you're allowed to say more. tired if that's what really happens. That's okay. So the first thing is to balance your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. There's another one that actually increases your manabar, but let's start with one. Do that sound okay, Kareem? Yep. Okay. So sit up straight. Okay. So what I want you guys to do, so your back should be straight. So the simplest way to tell if your back is straight is if your knees are lower than your hips.

your knees lower than your hips? Yeah. If they're not, you can sit on a pillow. It'll elevate your hips and it'll move your knees down, right? If you sit on a pillow. But anyway, okay. So I want you guys to do this. It's kind of complicated.

Right hand, thumb out. Two fingers. If you go like this, that's totally cool. Don't worry about it. Yep. Awesome. Okay. So then what we're going to do,

thumb on your right nostril plugging it, block it. And then breathe in through your left. Switch. So block the other nostril with the other two fingers. Yep. And breathe out. In, switch. There you go.

And out. In. Switch. And out. In. Don't switch. In. Switch.

And out. Now close your eyes. eyes, eyes closed, in, switch, out, in, switch out, and now continue at your own pace. We'll practice for about 60 seconds. Remember to breathe in, switch on a full breath, and then end up. Then in through the same nostril before you switch again. Go ahead and finish the breath that you're on, let your eyes remain closed, and let your hands relax. And now feel the person that you are. Take a note of how you feel. Notice that you spend a lot of your day thinking certain things, feeling certain things, and that those things may just be

quieter. You're still you. but you're a different kind of you. You may also notice that fatigue could be returning. You may be feeling it more fully. It's okay, too. Just notice whatever you feel. You're ready, open your eyes. How do you all feel?

That was really cool. I feel a lot. I felt like during and after, like a lot more relaxed. I definitely like pretty tired today but like anxious as well. And then I guess just yeah, doing the breathing. It was like it was nice just like focus on that and just kind of not really worried about anything else for like a moment.

So it was a good feeling for sure. So I'm going to comment on what boy boy said for a second to teach a principal and then I'll ask the rest of you guys. I want you to imagine how run ragged your mind is when you never give it a break. So much to worry about. So much to think about. So much to do. Your mind deserves a break from time to time and it can feel amazing.

You guys know how long we meditated? Two minutes. Two minutes. That's it, bro. Do this shit for half an hour a day. You will be a different person in eight weeks. Two minutes. you guys know why i don't teach 30 minutes of meditation on stream

why ain't nobody got time for that right but what i want you guys to see is the difference in such a small time i'd give you guys a taste before we get you really hooked other experiences um good for me it's just like a lot of process just the entire little session we had so you take like a step back and like get a almost get it like a whole whole thing out of a hat like get a focus on like only focus on that instead of spreading your

focus to all the things talked about was what I got out of it so this is really important you guys know why people get stuck it's because their focus is spread laser focus is what creates progress. You guys think about like y'all are generally speaking good law players, right? What's the difference between you and a bad law player? When it comes to getting good at life, I would argue that the biggest difference between people who are good at life and bad at life is spread attention versus focused attention. If we think about discipline, what is discipline? It's the restraint of your attention where you tell it to go. That's it. So if you practice spreading your attention and focusing it, you'll literally get better at life, which is what the data suggests.

Other experiences? My mind feels lighter, I guess. Like, I was, there's a lot of, you know, things to process like you were mentioning because there was a big topic. So I was, you know, thinking of all the stuff that you've mentioned in the past, and then after the meditation, I feel lighter and I can like take in more after the meditation. Maybe we should have started with it. I'm a good idea.

Yeah, but that's cool, right? So, like, I think you guys use this word. Like, I always ask people how they feel after meditation. They say relax and it pisses me off a little bit. What you are is so much more than relaxed, bro. It's not like you just got a massage. You know, like, we talk about lighterness of the mind. Like, what is that?

It's actually, like, something very specific. Like, if we hear Chris and he's kind of saying that my mind is now more receptive. They can absorb more information. Like, how O.P. is that? Just imagine if you were studying. And you were like, oh, shit, I can absorb more information now after 90 seconds of this ancient Himalayan technique.

And people would be like, oh, shit, that's so OPE. Hacks. But yeah. So, Kareem, you were asking a question, how do I get better at life? You start with things like this. You start by buffing yourself and doing things that are OPE. that other nobs don't have access to

and then you crack them because you're a fucking cheater at the game of life any last thoughts or questions for you wrap up sorry that's me over the top I'm gonna try the the 30 minutes

instead of feel so can I give you guys a suggestion yeah start with two to five so remember that the brightest candle burns out the fastest so you all are Pumped, awesome. Start with five. Do it a couple times a week. Don't sign up for one day. You're going to do it every day. Unless you're a pretty disciplined person and you can anchor it at some time of your day, then fine. But let yourself, don't let your enthusiasm, try to string out your enthusiasm throughout the week. It'll work better. But by all means, go for it. When you guys are ready for lesson number two, you let me know. Okay. Sounds good.

Awesome. Thank you guys very much. Thank you so much for having us This is awesome I never thought I'd learn so much about life from listening to you guys talk about league Seriously guys good luck and thank you for everything that you do including you Kareem Thank you very much

You're the Sith Lord amongst the Jedi I'm I think that's what's actually even more powerful because you're here too and if people see you make a judge boy boy like turns out to be his inspirational asshole then no one's going to back

and I, because that's what we expect from him. But we transform Fereem, and then the world is like, oh, shit. Thank you guys very much. Take care. Have a good. Yeah, how do you feel about yourself? Also, how dare you, you, you filthy singe speaker?