HealthyGamerGG - Dr. K interviews Sasha Grey on Procrastination, Feeling Overwhelmed & more

Episode Date: May 24, 2021

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Welcome. Thank you. How are you? I'm tired, but I'm all right. Let me just bring up my camera and yours for a second. What time? You're a couple hours ahead of me, right? That would depend on where you are.

I'm in Texas. Oh, okay. I'm in L.A. So you're one hour or two hours ahead of me? Two hours ahead of you. Two hours, okay. In the future. In the future, like the sunset.

All right. We're almost there. So while I do this, so there's not awkward silence, I was wondering, I've always wondered with your streams, how you, how do you interact with chat? Because you usually deal with pretty heavy subject matter. So is it sort of just there or do you interact? I usually ignore chat completely when I'm talking to someone. Okay. Interesting.

I've been curious. Which is I'm sad about on some level, but also like I try to just give the person my full attention. Right. I find that there's a lot to pay attention to. Then I interact with chat during slow moments or sometimes, you know, if something is going on like, you know, if someone is dodging a question, I will look at chat and see if they can tell. Because now chat has learned. Like they've learned what resistance looks like. they've learned what dodging is looked like.

They, they, like, begin to see patterns in the person. And so I'm kind of curious. Like, it's actually quite remarkable how much people have learned. That's cool. So do you,

like, keep it closed, though? Or do you still? No, I have a second monitor over here that I usually don't. Because sometimes, like, I need to keep track because I won't, you know, I'll have muted something by accident or whatever. So I need to have it somewhat available. But usually it's, you know,

eyes forward. All right. Turn this down. So welcome. Thank you. Thank you. And what do you go by? What should I call you?

Sasha is good. Or if you hang around long enough, uncle. Uncle. Yes, yes. Can you help me understand? Yeah. My chat affectionately refers to me as uncle. Uncle Sasha or just uncle?

It can be Uncle Sasha, Tio Gray, it could just be uncle. Oh, I see. There's a few variations. And how did you come to become an uncle? Inside jokes. You know, Twitch loves to meme everything. So I don't know.

I think it just something I said and did. But probably over a period of time, somebody commented, you're like a cool uncle. And it stuck. And it hasn't gone away. But I like it. Awesome. Cool.

And so you said you're a little tired today? Is that just because it's early in the morning? Yeah. Sadly, yes. So I'm already on, I brought coffee. It will be good. Yeah. So thank you so much for accommodating, you know, the central time zone.

Appreciate it. Oh, don't worry. Of course. And is there something in particular you want to talk about today or something that, um, you think we should spend our time on? Yes. So a couple things. that I would like to talk about are procrastination. Okay.

And parasycial relationships. I think those are two things that are very relevant to me. And my community, though. Like, it's something that we're all interested in and that we have discussed in the past. And so what should we start with? I will defer to you and chat. Okay. And then one other thing.

that I did want to ask, just so we can also set it up for the people that, like, maybe they're not part of my regular community, but they're just here lurking, high lurkers, is that you are a doctor, but what you do on Twitch, you have to fully disclose that it's not therapy. Yeah. Right. So I've heard some people say that they're confused by this or that if it's not therapy, then what's the point of putting people on stream to provide entertainment?

So I think I'd just like to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah. So we could sort of set the foundation and also be clear with everybody that's watching that. Like, yeah, we're having discussions and we're being as open as I feel comfortable with. But at the same time, it's not therapy. And we don't want people to take that away and, you know, possibly misinterpret things as well. Can I? So I can give you an.

answer, but can I ask you a couple of questions, just because I'm curious what you think? So what do you think I do on stream? So I've watched a few of your streams. I haven't watched them in a while. When I watch your streams, I've not done therapy, so I can't say, but it feels like therapy to me. Okay. And I feel like I am learning something. And I feel a lot of people can relate to that. So there is, there can be a blurred line. Um, I think for everybody watching, but I'm also emotionally intelligent enough to understand that, like, there are reasons there are disclosures and people have to be safe. And people also that are chatting with you probably have their own boundaries just like I do as well.

Sure. So, and then what do you think? So I understand you haven't been to therapy before, but what do you think therapy is? That's a great question. I think therapy is a tool to help people better understand what sets them back in life. That's like the best way I can view it or to work through problems that are maybe, maybe affecting their life personally. That slows them down from growing in life.

Okay. That's a wonderful answer, right? So it's like helping people move forward in life in some way. Yes. So let's say I'm Tio Gray and and is is Theo Gray like, you know, like if I have a problem, like, who do I come to? Like, we're like, oh, go talk to Theo Gray. Like, Theo Gray is like, is wise, right? Theo Gray will help you.

Like, and people come to your chat and they're struggling with something and like Theo Gray like steps in and it's like, hey, you know, this is what you should do. Like, and you can really help someone in that situation, right? Does that make you a therapist? Definitely not. Definitely not. So then what, you know, but like helping someone move forward in life, I think that that's a really good answer for what therapy is. But I would say that, you know, we do that a lot of people who aren't therapists to do that. What do you think about that? I agree. And I actually joke to some of my close friends that sometimes I feel like a therapist because not so much with chat necessarily, but in real life, I can't tell you how many times.

people come up to me and they just expel their problems. And this has been something that has happened to me since I was like 11 years oldish. I don't know what it is, what kind of aura or thing I have around me, but people love to tell me their problems. Like people I've never met. Yep. And that's so. Do you want to talk?

Sorry, go ahead. Do you want to talk about that today? I know it's not. not procrastination or potentially parasocial relationships, but I'm down to talk about it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right.

So let's just table that for a second. Yeah. But we should definitely talk about it because that's very interesting. So, but so then what, you know, if people come to you, right, people come out of the woodwork. You were standing there eating a sandwich, you know, in a park and someone comes to you and they're like, Theo Gray. Like everything is wrong with. And so, so you feel like their therapist, you're supporting them emotionally.

So then like what, what, what is the difference between you and a therapist? Qualified. I don't have the experience or, or the tools to really help somebody. I don't think. In the same way that a therapist could. And what way, okay, so let's talk about that. What, what way could a therapist help them that you are not trained in? The tools and education.

I think because I have spoken to people that work in mental health that are qualified. So I know a little bit or I know enough to understand that a trained professional has the tools to sort of like dig deep. And I hate this word because it's so reused right now, but unpack like the reasons and motivations behind somebody's problems. I guess you could say. So let's say that for a moment that I am doing therapy on Twitch. So there's like an ethical concern with that, right? Because like, you know, I'm talking with people publicly. And so if I'm a doctor and we say that there's an ethical issue there, then that means that I'm not allowed to stream on Twitch, right?

Does that make sense? Yes. So then like if someone wants to offer life advice or wants to help people on Twitch, what we're essentially saying is that the more qualified you are, the less we are going to allow you to do that. That sucks. Right? It's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, like I can, if I didn't have an MD degree, like I could show up here and be like a spiritual cult leader. And that would be totally fine. Like that's like ethically completely acceptable.

But the more qualified I become, the less I am able to help people. Right. And I do. I actually wanted to talk to you about that as well because I've seen so many. people on social media. It doesn't matter what platform speak like they, and when you said a girl, like a cult leader that just makes me laugh because sometimes you do get that feeling from people. Sometimes they speak as if they're qualified. But, you know, maybe they took some therapy. They read a few self-help books and then they realized, wow, like this has helped me and that's great. That's super positive. But then they, they present themselves as somebody who is qualified. But they're really just sharing really, not always, but quite often superficial armchair analysis of situations and of life, right?

And what do you think about that? It makes me laugh usually because I tend to see through those kind of things. Other times it's impressive because, you know, we do live in a society where we applaud people who are self-made. so sometimes it's actually pretty impressive. But what I often find is that these type of people end up regurgitating a lot of similar small tidbits of self-help advice. And so one of those things that I've been hearing a lot in the past year is about procrastination. And I am a master procrastinator. Good.

And so something that I... Very soon to your Ayurvedic doha, by the way. Do you know what Ayurveda is? No, I don't. Okay. We'll explain a little bit. But keep on. Okay.

So what I've heard a lot of these people say is, well, you, you, okay, let's do it. We're going to talk about procrastination. You procrastinate because, and it always leads into you procrastinate because you are afraid of success. Okay. Before we jump into procrastination, can I share my ethical thing about therapy and streaming? Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's totally cool that we move from one into the other. But let me just kind of close that up for a second. So, like, I think it's interesting, right? Because what you're essentially saying is that the less qualified you are, the more you are allowed to speak, the fewer ethical concerns you have. Totally fine. We're going to get into that in a second. So here's what I'd say. When you say that clinicians, I mean, you know, licensed professionals are trained. So what really trained in that the average, you know, internet guru is not is clinical illness. So if you look at like literally the, you know, American Psychiatric Association's definition of therapy, it's like, you know, an intervention that is designed to help someone with a clinical illness to treat depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder. addictions, things like that. So I think I know that what I do looks and feels like therapy to some

people probably overlaps at some, but I don't think that that's, I think the real thing that, you know, and that's because you guys just haven't seen me do therapy. Like, if you saw me do therapy, you'd understand the difference. And people who have come into my office before understand the difference. There's a longitudinal relationship. They're usually diagnoses involved. There are treatments involved. I don't treat anything. I don't diagnose. anything and some people may feel like that's a technicality like I'm skirting that but really it's not I mean I think that part of what I've discovered and this this also goes to a broader conversation about mental health is that somewhere along the way like if you think about there are a lot of things

we do for our physical health that are not medicine and like that's totally fine but like what do we do for our mental health that isn't therapy right right so like there's actually all kinds of emotional nutrition, like emotional support, like Theo Gray, case and point, you know, like you fulfill something for these people that a therapist fills for some patients. But I don't think that that makes you a therapist. I think what we've actually done is broaden the umbrella of therapy to include all things mental health. And just like physical health, like there's nutritionists, there's personal trainers, there's massage therapists, there's physical therapists, there are medical doctors, there are surgeons. And so if we think

about the physical body, there's a chef, right? Like, there are so many things that we do to support our physical health. And as a society, I think like therapists have sort of monopolized the mental health space. And I think now that we're, you know, meditation is on the rise and stuff like that. So a lot of people get benefit through that, you know, like a lot of people get benefit from Theo Gray. Like, you know, there's a lot of different things out there that can support mental health. And so, you know, I feel pretty good about what I do because it's really not diagnosing or treating illness. Like sometimes I'll get close to that line, but I'll purposely not step over it because I think that does change the relationship. You know, and I think that part of the problem is that like I think more people should be doing what I'm doing, not less.

Like it's, you know, I don't, I think that like you can support your mental health in ways that are not therapy. I agree. And I'd also like to add to that, like, I also don't think it's possible to have a real mental health therapy session on camera. For me personally, you know, when I know I'm aware that there are people watching. I could never open up to you on camera the same way I could open up to you. as if we had a private relationship as patient and therapist. Right.

So like, and I think some people, it's hard for them to understand that. But like anytime you put a camera on somebody, they will change. How does a camera change? Wait, hold on.

I was going to ask you a question about how a camera changes you, but it occurred to me that that is outside of the two topics that we had discussed. Are you, okay, if I ask you that? Sure. Yeah. How does the camera change you?

you see it for me personally when a camera goes on i'm more i'm more a little more let's say a little more energetic because in professional settings people said be more energetic but i definitely um it's like being on a stage you feel that you're putting on i don't want to say a show because that's a little bit too extreme but you are presenting yourself you know that people are watching you you know that people are listening. And so I'm not going to sit here, you know, like hunched over, lean back unless it's a 12-hour stream. I'm going to present myself a certain way. Whereas if in real life, I'm like 20 times more chilled than this.

And I am very monotone. So there is a big difference. And you see it too, though. Like you see it with babies on social media. You'll see parents recording this. their kids and the minute that the toddler realizes that there's the camera on them, they light up, right? They change.

And philosophically speaking, we all wear masks, right? So I want to present the version of myself that I want you guys to see. And I think most people do that whether or not they're aware of it. Okay. So let me ask you something, Sasha. So you try to present a version of yourself. makes perfect sense, right? Like, that's what we do as streamers.

And at the same time, I'm noticing that people are drawn to you since the age of 11, right? So I'm kind of curious. How do you understand what they're, what are they seeing? That's what I ask myself all the time. And I don't really have an answer for that. Maybe more so now, like as an adult, as somebody who's in the public eye, I understand. Like, what are they seeing? They're seeing somebody with experience.

that has come from, that is best known as coming from an industry that a lot of people consider extreme or taboo, but that I've also been able to grow and have success outside of that. So I feel like there's a level of trust that people feel when they ask me questions. So they trust my advice based on my experience. So I'm going to push back against that for a second. Okay. So people come to you and you're saying, okay, the reason they come to me is because I, you know, I've transitioned industries. I'm experienced.

I'm whatever, blah, blah, blah, whatever you just said. Right. It's very well crafted, very intelligent. But why did they come to you when you were 11? That I can't figure out. Right. So let's be, let's be careful because like if they were coming to you then, like you can come up with all the answers that you want now. Right.

But like what makes you think it wasn't the same thing that it was when you were 11? I get, well, when I really think back on it, like I'm, there's a big age gap between my siblings and I. I'm the younger and I'm the youngest. But I felt like I was held to my own, I was held to the similar standards. So even though I was much younger, I had their wisdom to sort of look up to. And I was always probably, I want to say serious, but maybe a little bit more, what's the word I'm looking for? A little bit more mature than some of my peers, maybe, but at the same time not because I was a total goof and love to be loud and stupid and funny, you know, like any kid. Are you special?

I don't, I'm laughing because that feels like something so sweet. that my mom would ask me. Okay. Am I special? I think everyone's special. I don't, you know, while I say these things about, like,

about my current self as an adult, I don't want that to come off as pompous. Because at the end of the day, I'm still a human, right? And I still have flaws. And I still have my own issues and problems, like every human being does. So it's not to come off and say that,

like, I, you know, this is me. and I'm great for these things, but do I think about like life? Am I special? Yeah, I guess I'm special. Everybody's special. But you have to recognize that to motivate yourself to be positive. But I don't, I'm a very humble person.

Yeah. So there's something interesting that just happened, right? Like, there's an answer to the question, which is, if we really dig through the bullshit, the answer is yes. But there's the mask on top, which is like, I'm not allowed to say yes because then I'd come across as pompous. Right? Yes. Agreed. And this is where, like, Sasha, I think that, like, what people, and this is the challenge.

I mean, I'm, you know, I know you're successful in everything, but I think that, like, you're actually not. showing the best part of yourself because there's something that people have been like drawn to since you were a child which you purposely push to the back when you present yourself a particular way what do you think about that i think that's something i've never thought about so it's it's actually fascinating like what could i be pushing back right because you yeah and i think I don't have an answer to that. Yeah, yeah. Maybe we'll get there, but maybe we won't.

But I think it's just interesting because I think what I'm hearing is that almost, I mean, so this is where, you know, if you wanted to run a cult, you'd do a very good job. Because there are people, I've noticed this, right? So like, like, there are people who, you know, like, that other humans are drawn to. I'm sorry, I'm laughing so hard because, uh, There's an inside joke in my community. We say, we're not a cult. Yeah. And it's just, it's funny.

It's funny. I'm not surprised that people have joked about you being a cult leader because I think you have the makings of a cult leader. I see the, I see the title now. You make it, you make it seem as if that's information that I need. I already had that information. Like, I'm aware. We've figured this out already. People have been drawn to you since the age of 11.

this is what happens, right? So sometimes people like you wind up in positions of public prominence. Right? So like that sometimes happens. Like some people call this charisma. But I think the real question is when people come to you, are you able to help them? I hope so. I hope so for sure.

You hope so for sure. I hope so for sure. And I say that because, again, it's so hard. I think there's a difference between stream life and IRL. So when somebody brings up a topic in chat, you know, I don't, of course I can't answer everything or respond to everything. Nobody can. But when I see something that I feel like I should respond to or that I can respond to

or I can relate to, I do try to give my best advice. But I also know that it's hard to keep the attention of people. and I hope that the things I say are getting through them. Why do you think people, okay, so when people come to you and you try to do your best to help them, let's forget about stream for a second. Let's talk about non-mask. Let's talk about T.O. Gray, right? Which is interesting because you actually have a persona, right?

Like a persona of like the friendly person that people come to, the person who's understanding and supportive and, you know. And so when you're that person, like, Like, do you think you help people? Like, forget about stream and chat and stuff. IRL for sure, yeah. So I know. I mean, I know I have like helped people get out of bad situations. And how do you understand how you're able to do that?

Why is it that you're able to do that, whereas potentially other people may not be able to? I'm very patient. Okay. And I'm a good listener. those are like the two immediate things that come to mine. Can I think about that for a second? Yeah. And I guess to add to that, I've lost my turn to thought.

Sorry, I think if it comes back to me, I'll bring it up again. I get the sense that, you know, sure, you're a patient, you're a listener, but that you kind of know what they need to hear in that moment. Yeah, but I, like you said, cut through the bullshit, I also, I try not to show. sugarcoat things for people. Yep. Right, which is what they need to hear. Yeah. So I think that there's a certain, so it's interesting because what I'm hearing you

kind of say is that you're like transparent and authentic with them. Mm-hmm. And that people respond very well to, because I think you probably do a good job of being compassionate, but also not sugar-coding things. What would you say? Yeah. I'm definitely empathetic. I can definitely.

I feel other people's pain intensely. Intensely. It's insane. So much so that sometimes, like, I feel I have to work on shutting that off. Okay. Yeah, you have the makings of a cult leader, for sure. Like, these are the attributes. So, like, this is actually well described in some of these old yogic texts, right? So you exhibit many of the things. Because, like, you know, like these, you know, religious figures, like, they start when they're young. Like, they'll leave home at the age of 10 and we'll, like, climb the Himalayas and things like that. And, like, some people express this kind of, you know, they have like a certain temperament where, like, people seem to be drawn to them. And for whatever reason, they have some degree of, like, insight and you're kind of able to say the right things. You're compassionate. I don't know how, you know, where this is going to go. But I definitely see that.

So one thing that some of these old texts would say is that you've done a lot of spiritual work in a past life, have no. idea what your religious beliefs are. You know, we can go down that road if you want to. But, you know, that's how they would describe what this turn. Because like some of that carries over to this life. And so when you, you know, born, you kind of describe being a little bit more mature. And you attribute it to all kinds of things. Like you had older siblings and stuff like that. But I'd say it's like temperamental. I'd say it's personality too. That generally speaking, you seem to be pretty chill and pretty monotone. You're actually like not that. Yeah. So, like, those are all like characteristics that are consistent with spirituality and a past, or a lot of spiritual practice in a past life.

And yeah. So I mean, I think that you just got to, I would encourage you to think a little bit about, you know, there are advantages to putting the mask on and being higher energy. And there are advantages to offering people what they expect. but I suspect that the most that you have to offer actually gets pushed to the back when you put on the mask. And do you think that's, again, it's hard to distinct, sometimes hard to distinguish. Like, do you think that applies to both IRL and on stream? No, I think it's more on stream because I think IRL,

you don't wear the mask. And so whatever it is, it's kind of like a moth to a flame, right? It's kind of weird. It's like you're exuding some kind of signal that makes like Randoes come to you and ask for help. And I know this because I've been exuding the signal for many years too. And so like people would, you know,

my wife calls it collecting strays that I collect strays. Like humans will come to me. Yeah. And they'll be like, can you help me with this thing? And it's been happening for a long time. And it took me a while to realize what that was is that, you know, I can be a cult leader too. That's why you just have to be careful because you have to know what you're dealing with

so you don't actually become a cult leader. Yeah. I think part of a large part of that is TOS. And so there are so many abstract rules of what we can and can't talk about that it makes it difficult sometimes to go in depth with things. other days I just want a game sure

I just want to cook you know and I and I don't want to do that or be that but there are other things that that I am within this realm of helping people that I am passionate about but I feel like are difficult to discuss on stream

because of those rules like I always I feel like we're always having to watch what we say and I feel like it's only gotten worse over the past year. So that's, yeah, that's... Can you tell me more about that? That makes it hard. What's gotten worse over the past year? I feel like the enforcement of these...

Enforcement of rules has become in somebody... I just saw it out of the corner of my eyes. Somebody said arbitrary, yes, I meant arbitrary, not abstract. Thank you. There feels like there's a lot of arbitrary rules that we're not even aware of. or that the rules are arbitrarily enforced. And every day you see on Twitter a streamer saying, like, I got banned and I don't know why.

And I still don't know what, you know, and it's temporary, but still I don't know why. And so I do feel like I have to be really careful when it comes to the subject matter that we speak about. We as content creators are at the mercy of these, platforms, right? While it's great, we are able to be here and do what we do and make a living doing it. On the other hand, these are major corporations that, you know, at the end of the day, they dictate their own rules. And it doesn't matter if it's Twitch or any other social media platform.

It's just the way it is. And a lot of voices are also suppressed. Like, I am shadow banned everywhere. So to have... What does that mean? Shadowband means that on the internet, your name is blocked from being from like smart search and auto search. So you know when you type something in on the internet and you write like cute, K and then it auto fills kittens and it drops down and you click on it.

So that's one thing. That's a form of shadow banning. But it also means that they block all of your social media profiles from being seen by other people. Like they literally cut your reach off. even to the people that I already follow you. So it makes it very difficult to have organic growth and have people find you. So knowing that and then also knowing what I have on Twitch, it makes it very difficult to be able to like have more open and sometimes adult, let's say adult conversations, right?

Like conversations that are meant for grownups without. And I say that. People are going to laugh. But, like, seriously, it's not only 13-year-olds on Twitch, right? So there's a lot of, there's a lot of, a lot of frustrating things that happened. You're quite analytical. Yeah. Sometimes too much.

I'm getting the sense that you calculate a lot. Like, I'm hearing you kind of, you know, really be aware of what the different very variables of the equation are. It's impressive. Thanks. Also seems like a little bit of an uphill battle. Does it feel that way sometimes? Every day.

Every day. Every day. Yeah. My catchphrase is a lot of continuum, which loosely translates to the struggle continues. What's like to struggle every day? I try not to, while that means a lot to me, I try, it's a fight, right? Like, there are days where I feel like, yeah, today I'm going to take over the world and I'm

going to, yes, brain, you know, like this is it. I have confidence and I'm motivated. And then there's other days where you feel exhausted and you want to go move to a foreign country and like invest all your time in helping other people and live on a farm, right? or like live in the wilderness, helping build homes for people. That's how you start a cult. Get yourself a patch,

patch land in the wilderness, start growing your own food, becomes self-sustaining. Dude, have, okay, sorry, no, we'll talk about that later. I don't want to get off topic. Wait, what? No, go for you.

You can't leave me hanging. Okay, so a few years ago, I became, and this is going to sound so culty, but I improved my quality of life and health with herbs and essential oils. Long story short, I was having like nonstop allergy attacks and they felt like flus, right? So they would just completely knock me out. And after trying all Western medicines, I started like just researching alternative methods

of feeling on my own. And in that process, I was looking for some oils, some essential oil. And I found a random website of a alleged, let me speak carefully here, of an alleged cult. At the time when I ordered, I didn't think it was that. I just thought it was a place where you can buy some oils. When the oils arrived, then I said, hmm, this is weird. Let me look it up.

So, yeah, it's like the purple something. It has, it has even a cult-sounding name. Wait, but what about the arrival? Like, did it come with cultists where, like, what about the, I'm so confused. I'm envisioning an Amazon package with some bottles of essential oils inside. Oh, no, no, no, no. It arrived in, I just threw it away, so I don't have one, but it arrived in an empty, recycled, battery package, right?

And then they filled the oil, clearly like they filled the oils from a larger source and put them in. So very homemade looking. And then they taped around the battery package to reseal it. And it was just the way it was packaged to put together. I was like, this is weird.

I didn't even use it because I don't want to use something that's sealed, right? When you say a battery package, are we talking like a, carton of Duracel? Yes. So there's like energizer body. Okay.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And now like recently I was thinking about it. I was like, man, that would make a great documentary and somebody's doing it. Like at the time, nobody was talking about this place. And then somebody else discovered it as well. And they're trying to do a documentary.

Yeah. Interesting. So your allergies got better with with herbs and stuff? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like night and day quality of life completely changed. I find myself being curious about what worked for you, but I don't know if that's skirting TOS. If you say something. No, because it's personal.

Okay. So even like I say that to my chat because I've talked about this with them before. Like, this is what worked for me. I'm not a doctor. I'm not an herbalist. I cannot tell you what works for you. You can say that, but I can't because I'm. I'm a doctor. Okay. So there you go, chat. I said it. But yeah, I mean, you know, you don't have to tell me now, but I'm always looking for solutions for allergies for like other patients. And a lot of what I recommend to patients actually comes from patients. So someone will tell

me like, oh, like this actually worked for me. And then I'll do some research and I'll kind of see like, oh, okay, it's interesting. You know, is there some data to support it? Is there some evidence behind it? And if I get a strong personal recommendation from a person and then find some evidence that supports it, then sometimes I'll make a recommendation to a future patient. So I'm really curious because I think allergies are tend to be hard to kick. Yeah. And I'm not actually allergic to like any food necessarily. It's just like they call environmental allergies and rhinitis. Like it's it could be a cigarette, somebody smoking a cigarette.

and I start sneezing for 20 minutes. Hmm. Okay. Anyway, did you want to talk about like procrastination and parisocial relationships? Are we just going, you know, off the range and into cult land? I'm fine with either. Yeah. Let me, let me ask you about.

So I just wanted to get your opinion on on procrastination. Okay. Because as I was saying earlier for people that might have missed it. Excuse me. I've seen a lot of people. on social media that are really influencers, they're not qualified professionals in any way, talk about procrastination. And a common theme that I keep hearing is that you procrastinate because you're afraid of success. What do you think about that? I think that it can apply to some people,

but it absolutely does not apply to me. Why do you think you procrastinate? And that is something that I probably have not asked myself enough of. I really, truly, I don't know. It's just something in my brain that happens. And I've, I set timers for myself. I set alarms for myself. And then I'll still find ways to procrastinate. Okay.

Can you tell me, can you just give me an example of something you're procrastinating on? Yes, like I need to, and it can be really small things, but I need to create a list of codes, for instance, for my stream. And this is something that one of my mods, who also helps me with my YouTube, has been reminding me to do for meets. I think, okay, so, okay, the one answer I do have

is that I think I'm overwhelmed a lot. So sometimes I don't know where to start. Other times I genuinely forget. I feel like I do so many different things and I don't have a nine to five desk job. I end up probably sort of burning myself out and not really taking a lot of downtime. So I'm sort of always all over the place. Like, okay, I got to do this. I got to do this.

and I don't keep lists as organized as I probably should. So I think that those things contribute to me feeling overwhelmed and not knowing where to start with things. Okay. Why are you overwhelmed? Oh, hold on that. Let me just think about this before I ask you more questions. I'm trying to decide whether I should just give you answers or ask you questions. Both.

What makes you feel overwhelmed? Oh, where we could be here all day. That's why I was thinking. about the question. So here, here's what I'd like to do, Sasha, but you let me know if you're okay with this, okay? One is, I think that there's stuff that you're struggling with, maybe not struggling is not the right word. There's, there are things that you deal with that sound challenging to me, but that conversation is going to be more personal in nature. We may be closer to getting you to open up a little bit. I just, but you've said that

You don't potentially want to do that. So we don't have to go there. I will for sure give you like a 15 to 30 minute spiel on procrastination that I'm like 80% confident will help you a lot. Okay. And we can just do that at the end because I think I've all, I mean, I have a good sense of what you're, you know, what's going on here. Yeah. And, you know, it can also be helpful for your like viewers and stuff because we'll explain, you know, like how progress. For example, is an umbrella term.

So it's like an emergent phenomenon that's based on all kinds of different processes. And so you'll get like a particular Instagram person who will say like, oh, it's caused by this. No, it's not caused by that. That's like death is caused by cancer. Like, yeah, that's true. But it's also caused by all kinds of other things. Exactly. Right.

So how do you diagnose? So like there are, you know, three discrete kinds of procrastination that I tend to like diagnose and work with. I mean, it's not really like a medical diagnosis, but like I've sort of seen three roots to procrastination that tends to help like 70% of people. And then there are additional buckets which result in procrastination, like feeling overwhelmed, which is just you just don't have, and we can kind of talk about that principle. I mean, there's, I think a discussion on procrastination can be like a 12-hour lecture. Yeah, where you go through neuroscience and different circuits of the brain and like, you know, it all applies. But I mean,

I mean, I'm kind of finding a lot of curiosity about, like, you know, it being an uphill battle every day, you feeling overwhelmed. But I just want to make sure that you're comfortable talking about that. And if you're not, that's totally cool. We can just steer clear. What do you think? Yeah, we can dig into it a little bit. And then if I'm not comfortable, you'll probably realize that immediately. Yep.

So I may just like now, I'm going to signal to you whether we're going to talk about it or like I'll ask you for permission. Okay. You know, I'll probably check in with you. And if I see that maybe things are becoming uncomfortable, then I will signal to you again. And then one thing that we need to be really careful about, okay? Because there is the presenter that may not want to disappoint people. So we have to be careful that that person is not the one answering the questions. Yes.

And feel free to say, that's not an answer. Okay. So is that Is that person already answering? Okay. So that works. Okay. So let's be careful because you're allowed to disappoint us.

Yes. Okay. And another thing that one of my mods just reminded me of as well is that squirrel. I get distracted a lot. A lot. That'll be part of the 30 minute explanation. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. So tell me what. I mean, so it sounds like you're overwhelmed by a lot of stuff. Yeah. I mean, I do, like I said, I do so many different things that it is really hard for me sometimes to figure out how to prioritize things. Okay. What makes you do a lot of different things?

Well, it goes back to not having a nine to five job. So constantly either trying to. Create new content. Make sure I show up to stream because that is an obligation too. You know, as much as I do enjoy it at the end of the day, people like to say that they stream just for fun. And it is a job, too, you know. So knowing that, like, I have certain expectations that I have to meet.

But then there's also things creatively that I would like to do and I would like to fulfill for myself. and I've always been independent. Like I've always been self-sustained. I don't have like a team of a thousand people or 20 people doing everything for me, right? And I just report to them and show up. Like I am hands on.

And now thankfully, because of my stream, I do actually have a small team of people that like help me with some like social media and YouTube stuff. But still, like, I feel like I'm always, if it's not one thing, it's another. And that's work life. That's not even personal life. Okay. So, so I want to understand when you, so I'm hearing that you have a lot of stuff on your plate.

Yes. So how does something wind up on your plate to begin with? I put it there. Okay. So let's understand that. Okay. So this is not a problem of priority. It's like, here I am, like, at the buffet, I've got a plate full of food.

I'm like, I don't know what to eat first. Yeah. So this is why people have trouble with procrastination because they look at the current situation and they ask themselves, how do I fix this? That's not where the money is. The question is, how did you wind up here in the first place? That's what you need to fix. Right.

Right. Right. Don't try to dig yourself out of this hole because, like, it's jumping in. That's the problem. It's like, you know, okay, so, so, you know, let's just think about something. Like, what's something, you know, how do things end up on your plate? I think part of it is survival. So, like, some of it is just pure economics.

I know that I don't have, I don't have a thousand things to fall back on, right? Okay. Meaning I don't have a, I don't have this. I keep saying nine to five job because it's easy for. me to sort of paint this like picture and delineation where I'm I don't have a salary to fall back on. Right. So for me it's I always have to follow in chase new. I don't want to say trends because that's so not me. But yes, like trends in technology, trends in streaming and trends and content because they change so vastly. So like always catching up with those things because they are essential to

what I do to make a living is overwhelming, especially when you don't have, like I said, I don't have a team of a thousand people doing these things for me. And especially when what happens if you don't stay on top of trends. I'm going to interrupt you from time to time. If that bothers you, please let me know. No, no, it's fine. Yeah, that's fine. Uh, what happens when you don't stand trends? Well, I'm trying, I guess this is like speaking to me personally, you've, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, It sounds really simple, but like if you don't stay on top of trends, then how is your content being seen by people?

And that's like, again, this is like a very, this is a career thing. Yes. The reason that I'm going to interrupt you is because I think your mind is operating at a level that is way higher up than where we need to be functioned, where we need to look at. So like on a given day when you wake up in the morning, and your own mind says, I need to keep up with what's going on. Like, you have some thought like that, I'm assuming.

Like, what goes through your head? Like, can we get, like, very microscopic with, like, what's happening in your head? Can try. It's about how can I, how can I bring relevant value to what I'm doing today? And right? So if it's on stream, for instance, because that's my. main focus right now how do I make my streams better and okay I or I do a lot of cooking on stream too so like what can I do that people will will be interested in and then

that's like okay well I know that there's these specific groups of people tend to come in numbers so I know that I have to focus on very specific things not always the exact thing that I want to do. And it's the same with games, right? Like you're always having to keep up with, there's a new game release. And sometimes, like, you want to finish this other thing. And that sounds so, so trivial, but it's not.

Because things are relevant today. And then by next Friday, they're no longer relevant. Okay. But then there's also, sorry, sorry to cut you off. Then there's also like just the over, like everything else happening in the world, right? Can you tell me about that? with social media and with the amount of information that we have, whether it's COVID or whether it's,

and this is going to make me cry, but like, damn, the injustices in our country that have been happening. The fact that it's like 20, 21 and we're still here and sometimes feeling so helpless, that stuff becomes overwhelming, and I'm not even the primary person affected by those things. and then I feel guilty because I say,

ah, you shouldn't be crying. You need to be out there doing something to help people and use your privileges to help people. And that becomes overwhelming. Okay. And so, so sometimes, yeah, it's like

you want to just the thing that you depend on for a career is the same thing that sometimes you want to just completely ignore because it's hard sometimes to keep those balances. It's hard. A lot of times.

Can you help me understand, um, I understand you got emotional there for a second. Um, I'm going to go ahead and say, I didn't see that one coming. So I didn't either. I was just confused by your,

your statement about, and then there's all the other. And I was like, what other stuff? You know, I was with you. Sorry, sorry about that.

I'm not going to ask. you more questions about that right now if that's okay with you that's great with me thank you okay i hate crying in front of people why because it's weak son um just because you put a funny voice on it doesn't make it i know that is part of it um that's just like i i don't like to be vulnerable in front of people i just don't is does crying make you vulnerable I think so. That's what's important, what you think is important. Sasha, I'm getting some degree of like desperation driving what ends up on your plate.

Like, I'm getting the sense that it's sort of like survival of the fittest and you sort of don't have a backup plan. Is that how it feels sometimes? For sure. No. And so do you think that's that most. motivates you to put things on your plate? Absolutely. Okay.

So this, once again, I'm going to give you the option to opt into or opt out of. And, you know, whatever happens today, Sasha, I think if you're okay with it, I may just summarize some thoughts and DM you in the event that you want to see a therapist. I think there are a lot of things that you could talk about in a private setting, like themes that maybe you could explore with someone. Yeah. Is it okay if I do that? Sure. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, can we, because I think that a lot of, you know, so if we, let me just share my thinking.

So you feel overwhelmed by a lot of stuff. And I think a lot of that depends on like how much stuff you're juggling. Now, there's actually like a cognitive and even genetic reason why you, your mind functions the way that it does. This is coming up for air, by the way. So I'm going to work very intellectually first. second, okay? Teach. We're going to take the heat off of you and we're going to just talk about procrastination, okay? So, and then, so like, basically, like, there's a way that your mind

works. You have a unique cognitive fingerprint, which is that you juggle a lot of balls. I'd guess that you get pretty excited about stuff. And what? Sorry. 12 year old sense of humor. Sorry. Okay. So, you know, I'd say that that, Okay, I just got up. No, I was about to say you have a lot of balls in the air, but, you know, because I used this and out, like, they're baked in at this point. So, you know, you're juggling a lot of, like, you've got a lot of different projects going on, right? And so, so there are people whose cognitive fingerprint is like, you get excited about things very easily. And it's like, oh, like, let's do this.

Like, this sounds really cool. Like, let me do this. Like, this sounds really cool. Like, let me do this. And then, so that's fine, but I think that there's actually more to it than that. Like, that's your cognitive fingerprint. Your mind is always going to excel, actually, because I guess that you get bored easily and you need like some degree of variety.

But the thing that I really think that we can work on is like this idea that every day is an uphill battle because I suspect that some of that sentiment comes from actually like a lack of security about what's going to happen. for you. And some of that lack of security may actually in an unhealthy way, because there's like this panic of like, if I don't do this thing, then what could happen? And so that driving force is going to get you to like take as much as you can, but then your plate gets overwhelmed. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. So oddly enough, I think if you want to get out of this, you have to address the feeling of like I have to do this or you know it'll all come crumbling down or yes I agree

I don't disagree with that at all but I will say actually since I started streaming my mods are going to laugh at me 100% but since I started streaming I feel like I've been a lot better because although it's not a nine to five job it it's providing some structure. A very loose structure because I can still you know show up at any given time.

So it's not like I have to be at a specific place at the same time every day. But I do feel like it is giving me some structure. But now it's it's learning how to balance showing up and then also giving myself a break. Which is actually something I wanted to ask you about as well. And somebody, it's a question that

somebody from our community had, but I felt like I could really relate to is like, when do you know to take a break? What keeps you from taking a break? And what keeps you from taking a break? And like, and when is it okay to go back? That's definitely something that I struggle with. When is it okay to go back to work? Yeah. Like, when is it okay to take a break and when is it okay to go back?

And especially again, I keep going back to like this, this world that is just so different from a traditional job. Like, what's that can be difficult? This job. You, you make your own rules and that can sometimes work against you. And it can make it very difficult to live, like to have. You make your own rules. So sometimes we need outside perspective to help us. help guide us.

Right? This is something that I love about collaborating. Is that when I collaborate with people on things, it gives me another perspective and then it can inspire me to think differently about things. What rules do you make up for yourself, Sasha? I don't know if I'm like I'm really prepared to answer that because I feel like I'm going to jump around that. Like I was about to say something and then it just sounded ridiculous. But my rules are that I have no rules. So, Sasha, I, I'm confused.

Is your reluctance to answer because you're not happy with how the presentation would go? No, I just don't think I have an answer for that at the moment. Like, I would have to think about it. What came to your head? That was it, that I have no rules. Yeah, I think that that's like. Like when you said, it's so hard to create rules when you're, it's hard to set rules for yourself. when you're doing it on your own.

Yep, it is. Like, for instance, today we had a meeting. 10.30 is our co-stream. No problem. I'm there. Like, that's not a problem. But if last night I said to myself, I'm going to end my stream at a reasonable hour.

And I'm going to wake up and go hiking in the morning. You better believe that that snooze button is being hit 10 times. and then I'm going to go hiking at night. Yep. So who is the Sasha? Who is the Sasha that says to herself that I'm going to end my stream at a reasonable hour and wake up at the morning? Can you tell me about her? The one that has to be responsible to other people than just herself.

I don't think, no, I think that's a different one. I know it sounds weird. So I think you're good at being responsible to other people. Yes. I think you're bad at being responsible towards yourself. Yes, that's what I mean. Sorry if I jumped up. I may have misunderstood.

But tell me about the one that tries to get you to do stuff for yourself. Like, why does she say those things? That's a question that I'm asking myself. I really don't know. That I truly don't. What's in your head? Why would you say to yourself that you want to end stream at a reasonable hour? That was like partly a joke, because I can't.

I can't just blame it on the stream. But I'm saying that because I did say that last night. Like when I ended my stream, I said, okay, like, I could keep going in theory and keep playing this game. But I know that I need to go to sleep so I can be on time and be arrested, right? Whereas, like, on Fridays and Saturdays when I stream, I don't have to do that. And as long as, like, my mods are cool and they're down to hang. I can keep going for another hour or two. And then I know that like, okay, tomorrow I can sleep in a little bit.

And then I'll just start my stream. Excuse me, a little bit later the next day. And, okay. So, all right. Hmm. Can you tell me what I'm going to switch gears on you for a second, okay? Can you tell me what feels like an uphill battle? What feels like an uphill battle?

I go back to like content creation in general what I do or at least like what I'm doing now that can feel like an uphill battle because again it goes back to what we were talking about earlier how do you

how do you run a business because that's what it is but also stay true to yourself knowing that there are a million you know algorithms working against you. So that feels like an uphill battle a lot. Like me and my a couple of the, my mods and people that work with me on my YouTube stuff,

like we are constantly analyzing these things and talking about, okay, we'll have an idea, but we can't do that idea because that means that it can't be monetized. And like I said, you can hear a million people say they stream for fun, but at the end of the day, it is still a business.

So I think that constantly juggling like what what brings you a spiritual fulfillment, if you will, that makes you happy that also what sucks is like I know that there as we were talking about earlier, there are people that there's that have a sense of trust with me. So like there are things that we would like to talk about that then we can't talk about. So those things definitely become frustrating. Do you feel like that you're further restricted by being shadow banned? Like does that, does that like set you? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Can you explain that to me, please? Well, that's like, again, that's something that I, the me to the, you know, talking to the public is that I want to be really clear about is it's not, it's not an easy. egotistical bruise whatsoever. It's simply the fact that I cannot continue. I can, but not in the way that everybody else can. I can't continue to create things and have them be seen in the same way that the average person can. So I'm hearing that you're held to a different standard. Absolutely.

And I brought that on myself for sure But the internet is also what brought me here So there's this real duplicity Right like there in there seems to be so much fake Alyship of Every Every minority group And I consider myself part of the LGBTQ community

I was a sex worker so there seems to be all of this outside visible support for groups during certain times of the year. But then if you actually try to have these conversations, those same people that put up that little flag on their website are suppressing your voice. How does that feel? Makes me angry. What are you angry about? It makes me angry that people claim to stand for something and then, then the very things they claim to stand for, they suppress.

Okay, I'm noticing emotions again. So, Sasha, I think that I, so I'm going to, if it's okay with you, I'm going to state an actual preference that I want to continue talking about this because this feels incredibly important to me. And at the same time, since there are emotions, we're going to pause and we're going to see if you're okay with it. Because like, I think what you're saying is like really, really, really. important. We're talking about double standards. We're talking about hypocrisy. We're talking about

um, you know, like do we really want to be accepting of people? Because that means, I know it sounds crazy. Being accepting of people means that we need to accept people. Yeah. Funny. Right. And and, and, you know, accepting people is something that sounds good. But the truth is my experience as a psychiatrist. Accepting people is very hard. It's not pretty. Yeah. Yeah. It requires, it's not like a good thing. Like accepting people is like hard. It's painful. It requires, it's not like a, you know, black and white sort of like, oh, like, let's be accepting. Like, it sucks to accept. No. No. And I mean, like, from, from an outside view, what's so crazy, what's weird is like, I can take, criticism from strangers. I can take criticism from

anonymous people on the internet. But that side of it is so frustrating because I like my whole motivation for getting in the industry when I was in it was to empower people. Part of it was catharsis, part of it was self-discovery, but to also empower people. And to feel like I have to constantly guard and watch everything I say and do because then I can't keep sharing that message is is stressful. But then also like at the end of the day going back to the fact that it is a business.

Right. So like how are you supposed to do the thing? Not everybody gets to do the things they love for work. So I do try to ground myself in that and remind myself like, okay, I'm I'm lucky for what I do have, right, and the things that I can do. Like, how do you continue that message? How do I continue that message? Yeah, dude, this is like, okay, I'm about to get frustrated with you.

Is that okay? Sure. Okay. I mean, what can you say? Can you say no? No. Because here's the thing, Sasha, like, okay, like there's the business, right? But what I really hear is that, like, there's like a real you, which is being muzzled by a business you.

And I'm not saying that that's unwise because I'm hearing. that very clearly, like, you can't let yourself out, right? Because, like, you're going to be punished in a way that other people won't. You're kind of like, you've already got two strikes against you. And so you can't afford to take that third strike. And I completely get that. At the same time, there's a part of me that's like a little bit. I don't think that that's who you were meant to be.

Right. So I think like, like, when I think about what is your content? contribution to this world, I think your contribution to this world feels very strongly to me to be like those conversations actually that you're not allowed to have. Now, I'm not saying that you should go and have them, but I think that there's like something to be said for the fact that like you're considering these conversations. I think you, you know, you clearly are a thoughtful person. And like if we really think about like what do people need, I suspect what people need. I mean, hell, we started this whole this conversation with like me having conversations that people thought were unacceptable right so that may be yeah but i mean i've seen immense value to having conversations that people haven't had before or people think that is a little bit like out of line and i'm not

saying you should go and do it i mean by that i mean just out of line like like so talking with people about their personal feelings in a very authentic way on the internet with thousands of people watching is a big no-no. Mm-hmm. You know, I spoke with my colleagues and I was like, what do you guys think about this? Some of them said it was a bad idea. Some of them said it was important. You know, they gave me a lot of good advice and like helped me like understand a lot of

the ethics of like how can we protect people. Like, for example, sometimes we'll have conversations with people before they come on stream where they're allowed to say, I don't want to talk about this. I don't want to talk about this. I don't want to talk about this. So that, you know, they're not put in a position and we kind of steer away. Like there are a lot of things that we do to make this a safer experience. experience. Yeah. And at the same time, I think the conversation is important to have. Now,

what I'm hearing is that you're paranoid about being canceled, which I think probably makes sense. Is that fair to say? Uh, not canceled in the, not in my version of canceled. I mean, not in how I interpret canceled. Like, it's just a simple fact that, for instance, um, I'll just tell you, like straight up. Like, the other day I was talking to a couple of my, online friends that helped me with my YouTube stuff about wanting to start a new, I don't know what yet, right? Like either something in a written form like a blog or a video series or somebody mentioned like a podcast, right? That has to do with like sexual health and wellness. And having conversations with like guests.

or just giving my own feedback and telling my own stories. But then the first thing is like, well, how are people going to hear about it? How are people going to listen to it? Because anything that has to do with that, even if it's in a with sexual subject matter, automatically is on every social media platform completely suppressed to the bottom. So how do I continue something new? if I can't even approach it and have people be aware of it. It's existence.

Hmm. How does it feel to be in that situation? Again, frustrating. It makes me angry, for sure. Because then you see... Keep on. Here we go. Here's something that I think everybody,

everybody can relate to because then you see other people that, um, they magically come out of nowhere because they have a, a foundation that started elsewhere. And then they can start talking about these things. And they can take that risk because they already have this other foundation to fall back on. Why don't you have a foundation? Okay.

So now there's a theme, right? So like what makes it? So what makes- I do feel like I have a foundation. It's not that I don't. It's just that it's one that is not these days. I have to compare it to like when I first, I've been in the public eye since I was 18, right?

So the internet and technology has changed so much. It used to be a lot easier to discover different people or discover people like you or discover people that shared your same interests and talk about those things. So a lot of those tools have sort of been stripped by the way the internet and social media works now. I'm sorry, can you say that? I'm just noticing that I think maybe there's something. I should be understanding or knowing. Sorry.

Like, but it goes back to just, um, like shadow banning, right? Like there's just certain subjects that can't be discussed on the internet. Okay. Or if you do,

they're not, um, they're not monetizable. So like, I can't sit here and say, I have this great idea and this passion project and, and then stop streaming, you know,

a few days a week and put time into that. How does it, Because then it's like it's it then becomes a passion project essentially. So can we talk about these other people who are able to like break into the scene and sort of are, am I hearing you kind of say that they're able to have the conversations and kind of it's easier for them to make the content because they don't have the handicap that you have for lack of a better term? Yeah, but that was a little, that was a little probably superficial. But like, yes, I have seen people that. are regular, let's say like regular influencers that aren't so much from the streaming side of things, that then go off and decide that they're going to have an authority on a subject like this.

I have seen that. It's not all the time. But I think that's everybody, right? Like we all go on our phones because we're all bombarded by social media and we say, oh, why can I have that? Like, we're all guilty of that. But that specific area, yes, it's frustrating to see that sometimes people can do that. Yeah, you're doing something very sneaky here, which is that when you have an authentic feeling, you actually devalue it very quickly by generalizing it.

Okay? So, like, let's just follow along. Like you said that, like, so you have a particular background. You have a particular experience that arguably makes you an authority. You also have something that you're kind of passionate about. and um sorry just i have to be careful about what colloquialisms i use yes i'm sorry to say i think i understand a little bit about um i think oh wow i just had a revelation i can't no wonder it's so fucking exhausting um because what i was going to say is is i was going to use the phrase

put your money where your mouth is um but and then it occurred to me that like well you just did. Yeah. And then like I noticed myself filtering. And then I was just thinking about like, oh, like I'm filtering this much now. Like what must it be like for you to filter? Because you've got to filter way more than I do, I imagine. Yeah. With that kind of stuff, though, like I laugh at, you know, like we were very open to make jokes about that kind of stuff. Because you can, right? Like they're innuendos. Like innuendos, you can get away with so much more. It's like cartoons. Yeah. And at the same. But anyway, kind of going. back to like, like I think I'm hearing you sort of say a couple of things, Sasha, and I'm hearing

you kind of just skirt the edge and then pull away. So I don't know if that's sort of like a boundary issue, but I'm going to just share it. Like, because I think that what I'm hearing is that you're passionate about something. There are some issues that are important to you. I think you sort of have, you've kind of grown into this role of content creator and you think that like you can kind of combine your platform with like issues that are important to you. And that one of those topics could be something like sexual health. And that, you know, when you, when we kind of own that a little bit, like you also say, oh, but it's social media and everyone sees things that people like, you know, like, oh,

I wish I could be doing this. And so you got to be a little bit careful there. I wouldn't devalue yourself because if what I'm also hearing is, you know, or there are a bunch of uneducated people who are pretending to be experts in domains that you feel like you're qualified to give, like, good guidance on. Yes? Yes. Something you said there was, like, bringing something up and I lost my train of thought again.

I got distracted, but I'm trying to bring it back. I bet you if I went in the other remote, remember it. I can try to say it again. You want me to try to say it again? Yeah, maybe that'll help. So you were talking about, you know, how there are people like who will, so you have certain things that you're passionate about. You have some things that you're interested in.

You're a content creator, maybe that you can combine those two. You think about maybe like starting a podcast or something. And you're not able to or it's challenging for you to do so because of some of the shadow banning, et cetera. And then other ran, yeah, go for it. So it's, I don't like to wallow in my own self-pity. So, yeah, like I probably do downplay it. Yep.

Because I don't want to be that person that becomes fixated on things because I've seen people like that and I've met people like that. And they're impossible to be around. So I'm very careful because I never want to become that person. And I think social media is overwhelming for all of us. Sasha, when did you stop wallowing in yourself, pity? I was 15, 13, 14, 15, something like that. Can you tell me about that? For sure.

A lot of it. This is one of the places where you may want to say no. No, no, it's totally fine. It's just how I was raised. And I like that, though. I like that because it, I don't feel like I was, I wasn't given like these concessions that because you're a girl, you should be treated differently.

It was like, okay, pick yourself up. You're done crying. Take a deep breath. life happens, move on. Suck it up and move on. Suck it up. And I think that's, you know, I like that personally. It doesn't work on everybody, for sure, you know, but I think life has enough, life throws enough curveballs at you that, like,

there are going to be times where you can't control it. So as much as you can, it's a good thing to be able to say, okay. Let's move on. Sasha, why do you have to be so strong? That's a great question. Damn, you're good. I knew I liked you, but I was, damn. The real, like, really, truly?

Mm-hmm. I come from a neighborhood where you have to be strong. Like, there are no options. I know that, like that, I can give you a very black and white concrete answer on. I'd love to hear about that if you feel okay talking about it, but. I mean, I don't want to talk about it too in depth, but yeah, I come from a super disenfranchised neighborhood. I think I'll leave it at the fact that like everyone I grew up with, it sounds like a movie, but like not everyone, but a lot of the people I grew up with are either in prison or dead. or spun out.

So that's why I'm strong. Not why I feel like I have to be strong. That's why I know I'm strong. And that I can like confidently say without backtracking on it. How do you deal with other people being sympathetic towards you? If I were to say something like, you know, I feel sad that you had to grow up in those circumstances. How would you? I don't like it.

I don't like it Unless I know that they come from a similar situation What do you dislike about it? My immediate answer to my head was that I don't like pity. I don't need your fucking pity. I don't want your fucking pity. I don't. I really don't.

Because I like I've made it this far. I don't need pity. I really don't. I have a very small but important number of people in my life that I will lean on. I respect you a lot.

Thanks. How do you feel about respect from other people? That doesn't bother me so much. You see, this is why they call me. Like, the uncle thing is starting to come out here too, I think. I, like, a lot of feelings I have when I look at them, I say, like, I feel like a lot of very valuable things I learned. or the way that I was taught, um, is usually something that happens with boys.

What does that mean? Like I would, it goes back to the pity thing, like never. I don't know, I just, I feel like some of the really important conversations that I had with my, the figures in my life. Um, so I'm crying because I'm thinking about my dad who passed away. Um, you know, like, I mean, it was told to me. Like, you don't have to be treated differently because you're a girl. But also, like, some of these, some of these things that were instilled in me.

I mean, I know, I know that, like, other, these things weren't being told to other kids. And or to other girls specifically. How do you feel about being treated differently? I'm so fortunate. How did you feel? How did you feel back then? Lucky because it was. my womb

you know it was my rock I felt protected by it I felt special and I'm saying that funny in a funny way because you asked that earlier

but I'm just kind of thinking a little bit about you know a 13 year old or 14 year old girl and who's treated a little bit more like a boy and sees that

she's not treated like a girl. And I can understand how that's made you into the strong and capable person that you are today. And I can also imagine that, you know, at the age of 14, that can be annoying. And that there can be a wanting to be like everyone else. Yeah. For sure. I'm also kind of noticing a theme of like, you know, there's you and then there's everyone. else. Like, it doesn't sound, because when we were talking about, you know, content creators and what

they can get away with and what you can get away with and being shadow banned. And I mean, there's a very real reality. Sounds stupid to say. But there's a, you know, there's a very real situation in that you are different, right? Your circumstances, you're different. The standards against which you're measured is different. And I can see that you've sort of like risen to the challenge and you've, you've faced it head on and, you know, and at the same time, like, I'm wondering, like, what happened to that 14-year-old who just wanted to be a little bit more normal? I don't really see it that way. How do you see it?

I say those things, but I, like, both of, I don't know, this is interesting because now, hold on, I'm going to backtrack because some of my closest friends always told me I was weird. Maybe there is something there that like, you know, I noticed recently probably because I have been very disciplined throughout the pandemic of like not doing anything and not being social except like two little bubbles. So I noticed when I'm just at the grocery store checking out somewhere like I am awkward sometimes. Yeah, but that's maybe a whole different conversation. but I don't know. I feel like I was,

I feel like that's minimal because I still feel like I was pretty minimal. Okay. Do you sometimes wish your life was different? No. Help me understand that a little bit. Because for as difficult, as difficult as

thriving can be in a business context, I wouldn't want to other way because I did know from a young age that I didn't want a nine to five job. So as difficult as it can be, I find that I do tend to thrive in chaos. And I do tend to thrive with, you know, working in defense. Can it become exhausting? Yeah.

What does that mean working in defense? That there's something always pushing. against you, right? So it can definitely become exhausting. Sure, and that's probably why I can tend to feel overwhelmed for sure. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it. Can I think for a second? Yeah.

Can I go the bathroom? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I'm going to get some water too. I'll wear it back. Do we be respectful or do we be helpful? I think we're going to have to go with the respectful.

I got cold. All right. So I think, Sasha, I was debating about, you know, whether to take this further. I'm leaning against it. So I know you've been willing at every step of the way to sort of like I've asked a couple times for permission. You seem to be like going for it. And I appreciate that.

But I have a feeling that if I keep on asking you questions, you're going to end up in a place that may be helpful to you. but I'm not sure you'll be entirely happy with it. Okay. I want to, like, so the direction of that, those questions have to do with, like, so here's what I see. Okay. You are a force of nature, right? Not a cult leader.

Maybe one day. And I, I, what I'm hearing in your story is a lot of triumph. but also a healthy amount of adversity. And even today, I'm hearing, like, a lot of challenges that you face. And you kind of, like, are your best self when you were, you know, when your chips are down. Like, you know, you're good at playing on defense. You're a survivor. You're not just a survivor.

You, like, thrive in adverse circumstances. Like, you know, just think about what you said that, like, most of the people that you grew up with are in prison or dead. Like, and here you are, you've become, you know, a force to be reckoned with. And so I see a lot of strength and there's a lot there to respect. And I think the challenges that you've become strong, it's part of who you are. It's part of your identity. But I think something was lost somewhere along the way. Like in that, you know, like, you know, like,

in you becoming a titan, you had to kind of like grow up for lack of a better term. Yeah, yeah. And so there's a part of me that does feel some degree of like empathic sadness, which I know like really rubs you the wrong way. And there's a part of me that says that like ultimately I think that what I see is a way forward for you is like being able to accept people's compassion a little bit. more, you know, and I know you hate it. And this can kind of tie to things like, so I'm not going to give you more compassion because I think it would be really hard for you to handle. But, you know, you can look at your story as a story of triumph, but I think it's also like a little bit dishonest

to just look at it as a story of triumph. That there's a lot of hurt, a lot of unfortunate stuff, a lot of things that, you know, I would hope that one. day you're able to regret some of your decisions. You know, I know it sounds kind of weird, but like, I don't think that anyone... Oh, there's things I regret. Oh. Okay. Don't get me wrong.

Okay. Don't get me wrong. Good. Probably not the, not like the most obvious ones that people would assume, but there are things I definitely regret. Just not a... Let's say like not from, like to be clear. clear as day, not from my choice in getting into the adult industry. Like, I want to be clear as days about that because people assume all sorts of stuff.

So not about that, but about a lot of other things. Yeah, I wasn't necessarily referring to anything in particular. I didn't think you were either. But I will. For the for the lurkers to know. So sometimes I think that people who, you know, live lives of strength, that a part of that strength. requires you to like have no regrets.

And like and I think that ultimately like being a truly like authentic person, like we're all human. We all screw up. We all make mistakes. And I think regret is actually like the avoidance of regret I think actually leads to some amount of toxicity. We can't grow. I don't think. Yeah. It's like you know, we learn hopefully learn from our mistakes.

I also think that. You know, if things are unfair for you, are we allowed to feel for you there or no? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Like, I wouldn't. What would I, what would I say to that, you know? I'm sorry you're in the situation you're in. Oh, thank you.

How does that feel for you? Because I have a certain level of trust with you already. That's. that doesn't bother me as much as it would coming from. I mean, I know we don't know each other in real life, but like we have briefly talked in different situations before today. So like it doesn't bother me as much as that coming from a total stranger or a friend of a friend. I'm going to try to qualify that statement a little bit more.

You let me know how it feels. Okay. So, Sasha, I think it sounds really tough to be like, so you've made some choice. and I think you, I'm happy to hear that you kind of don't regret them, that you've lived this life that has had some challenges and you've become the person that you are and the person that you are is analytical, capable, entrepreneurial, dedicated, that you're trying to make the world a better place. And I think it really sucks that you're being held to somewhat of an unfair standard, that people who talk real big about supporting people and accepting people and acceptance. accepting people actually like secretly punish you for particular things. And it sounds like really, really hard and unfair to be, you know, in the position you're in. And I'm also a little bit afraid of, I'm a little bit afraid that despite the fact that you've come this far, that some of the things that you deal with may actually be like insurmountable

at some point, that you may not be able to walk this tight rope. because it seems to me like you're balancing very carefully. And so there's a part of me that's afraid that since the tightrope that you're walking is so damn thin and so damn high, that like, you know, I have faith in you. And at the same time, I'm also terrified for you. Privacy policy in terms and conditions posted at text plan.us. Texting rules for occurring automatic text marketing messages. Messaging data rates may apply, reply, stop, top, doubt. The pandemic has been hard on all our kids.

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Text grade to 3232 right now and get started for just $1. Text grade to $3232.32 now. Text grade to 3232. I mean, I guess I could say that I'm, like, fortunate that I don't feel alone in this. That's important. You always have to talk about what you have to be grateful for. For sure. Can you talk about the other stuff?

What other? What do you mean by that? What are you feeling right now? I just think about like walking a tight rope is an interesting way to put it for sure. But like I'm, I say I'm glad I'm not alone in that because I couldn't do it. on my on my own while I might like do the business side of things and I and I feel like I put all these things on my plate I do have the support I need and I know that I'm not alone in experiencing these things as well I know that there are other people I might not know them but I know they

exist so I have to keep that perspective to stay strong yeah I don't think you need to stay strong Sorry, I'm laughing. Somebody said she, I glanced over. Somebody said she's not alone. She's a cult. Yeah. Not a cult. Not a cult.

Not yet. Not yet. One day. Once you have a compound. Right. Compound. You have to call it that. Welcome to the compound.

Castle Gray School. Yeah. Nice. No. And I think. I think this would actually be an interesting, or a good moment, rather, to bring up parissocial relationships if you have time for that. Sure.

Let's bring it up. Because it's something that, like, we've touched on stream before. And I think it's something that we're all, as a society, still learning about and how to deal with it. and it's get her a guitar too it's like we talk I talk about all these the uphill battles right

the defense and thriving but then there is also this great community that I have and that a lot of people have on their streams as well so it's interesting to me because I feel like even though there's a few core people,

and I'm not talking so much about the chat necessarily, but like my mods and the people that help me behind the scenes, like we have truly built something special that until today, throughout like all of social media, all my experience on it has not existed. So that's interesting to me. And I'd kind of like to get your perspectives on that, but also just like this relationship that I have with my community and what you think would be the best way like if we see problems how to deal with them.

Because I feel like actually like my mods and I, we do sort of walk this tight rope with how to treat people because we do have to be sensitive. And sometimes people overstep boundaries where it's very clear you know what to do and you know what needs to be done. and other times this it's more difficult to deal with can you give me an example people

people in the past have overstepped boundaries that we've laid out as a community in ways that can become really scary and frightening

because it tells me that maybe I'm doing something wrong, that I'm not delivering a clear enough message that like while I do look forward to seeing people and a lot of people that are in almost every single one of my stream, a majority of those people respect the boundaries. And sometimes it's almost like an unspoken, like sometimes those boundaries feel like an unspoken, um, they feel unspoken,

you know, like we, we know what to expect. The majority of people know what to expect. And every so often, there are people that, that don't know. But then,

of course, like, we have the mods that they do make it clear, like, to not do certain things, right? Whether it's on Twitch or on, on Discord after the fact. But, um,

I get, I don't know if it's so much of a purse, like, for me specifically, but as a whole, like, where do you see this going as a society? Like, how do we? So how do we send a positive message, but also like know when to cut it off? So, Sasha, can you define for me what a parasycial relationship is?

Yes. In the case of, I'll give myself as an example here, I'm here. I represent something to the people that watch my streams. but the relationship is not reciprocated in a way that our IRL relationship would be, right? Like, I am not friends with these people in real life. I am friendly with them, but I don't actually know them. And so what I'm hearing is that it has some of the attributes of a real life relationship. but by virtue of it being an online relationship,

there's something like, you know, it doesn't translate 100%. So, you know, you can start to appreciate other people, interact with them, they have their own personalities, some of them are trolls, some of them are funny, some of them are compassionate. And so you can communicate with them, you can interact with them, you can form some kind of relationship with them. Mm-hmm.

But it's not, it doesn't come with everything that, a real social relationship comes with. I shouldn't even say real social because I think it's just a different kind of an in-person social relationship and that there are some, most people tend to sort of understand that there are some unspoken boundaries, but that some people really don't understand those boundaries. So this is where we've talked with several streamers about parasycial relationships and I have some thoughts.

But I think what's really missing from this conversation is what we really need to do, is get, I don't know if this is, you know, TOS friendly, but like, I think the, the, if we really want to understand parisocial relationships, we have to understand the other side of the story, too. So this is where, like, you know, I think that like understanding what is in the mind of someone who does not respect a boundary is very important. Like, that's the missing part of the equation for me. Right. So like, like, and this is where I think we've had, you know, some we've had some people on stream that have certainly posted on our subreddit and stuff about like, you know, feeling lonely and giving lots of money to particular content creators

in the hopes that, you know, it'll, it'll, they're looking to fill some kind of void or connection. And so, so we have some experience with this. But I think that's just an important part of the equation. But let me ask you, I mean, what do you think is going to happen? Like, what do you think? I don't know. I mean, like I said, I try, removing try. I do my best to be clear about these things on stream.

We create commands that like guests can use and that moderators can use. But that's only in my, I can only control what, or, you know, try to control or observe and, and cultivate the community that I have, not other peoples. So I think, I think Twitch is cool because we have all these tools at our disposal. So, um, it makes it a lot cleaner and makes the rules, um, you know, the rules are there. they're up front. We're not hiding things from people. But you go on other forms of social media

and a lot of people don't do that. Or it's impossible because those tools don't exist on other forms of social media. Yeah, it's... I guess a question, too, I have is just like, am I doing enough to make those things clear? I don't know. I don't know what you're doing.

Should we... Let me take a stab at this. Okay? So can I just share like some thoughts about how I understand parisocial relationships and what we need to do about it? So like the first thing is that I think that from a neuroscience perspective, there's a reason why these things are happening. So as human beings, we tend to like associate things with other things.

I know it sounds like such a simple sentence. But, you know, so for example, you know, a class. thing that we'll kind of get into is like being friend zoned or fuck zoned, right? Where like there'll be, and it's usually like a dude who gets friend zoned. I'd say like most of the cases I hear about tend to be with men. And I think there's actually like a neuroscientific and like developmental reason for that. I don't think it's, it's not the Y chromosome. It's more that, you know, men tend to be socialized to expect emotional intimacy and only is a very

small number of cases. So emotional intimacy is okay with mom, usually, not even okay with sisters, not okay with brothers, oftentimes not okay with dad, maybe like emotional intimacy is okay with grandma and then like romantic partners. So those are the people with whom I am allowed to feel social. Like we're like coded that way. We're programmed that way. And so oftentimes what happens is is if you look at, you know, I'm not trying to offend anyone. It's just general anecdotal observations and a little bit of data to back this up, but frankly, not very much. I think the way that, you know, girls are raised or were raised was different, right?

So there's more emotional intimacy within friendships there. And so then you get into this situation where, like, you know, working with the people that I have, what I've noticed is that emotional intimacy between a man and a woman in their early 20s means different things. Yeah. So for the woman, it's like completely acceptable to have a friend that you emotionally confide in. And for a dude, it can be really confusing because they're kind of like, it's, they're under the impression, whether it's correct or incorrect or programmed or genetic.

I have no idea. But somewhere along the way, they have this programming in their mind that if I'm emotionally intimate with someone, that also comes with feelings of romance and sex. And so there's kind of like a communication breakdown here. here, a breakdown of expectations. And I think something similar happens in parisocial relationships. So what happens is our brains are wired to associate certain things with other things. Like, for example, a hundred years ago, if I had an inside joke with someone, what other things would I have with them? The short answer is a lot, right? Because an inside joke is only possible when there are other like check marks of a

relationship that have developed. Like, I have to see them for a while. I have to be to a certain degree, like, vulnerable. Like, we have to have to have, like, some kind of common cause or, like, you know, like inside jokes come with a certain, if you think about when do you unlock the inside joke in a relationship. You unlock it like after you're at a high level of friendship. Yeah. You know? And it reminds me this, like, funny quote from the office where, where Michael Scott, I don't know if you've watched the office. And he kind of talks about the inside jokes. He's like, I've always wanted to be a part of one. You know, and it's kind of like this idea that like an inside joke comes with other stuff.

Yeah. And we sort of programmed that way. And so enter Twitch chat where like now we have inside jokes, but it doesn't seem to be coming with the other stuff. Yes. And so I think people start to get like kind of, I don't know if confused is the right word, but there's like kind of like a programming does not compute error because usually when I have an inside joke with them, It also means that, like, I'm allowed to text them at any hour of the day. Right.

Right. Like, there are certain associations that come. And so I think what happens with social media is that, like, we're finding ways to, like, short-circuit some of our programming or, like, hijack. Actually, hijack is maybe a better word. Hijack some of our programming. And certainly video games do this neuroscientifically. We're, like, if we think about the drive for achievement. So we have this thing called the intent to mastery.

which is a very, very simple, hardwired core of your brain kind of thing, which is like, if I have a six month or four month old and I hand them a ball, they will try to hold it. And if they drop it, what do they do? Any idea? Huh? Cry. Cry? Sure.

The answer I was looking for. That's a fair one. The answer that I was looking for is they pick it up. Right? So like, like if a kid stumbles, like everyone learns how to walk, right? Like no one, no one like gives up on learning how to walk. If you think about it, it's like really, really hard. You fall over and over and over again.

So like we have this hardwired part of our mind that's like, I want to get better at this. I need to get better at this. And I have to become a master. And then if you look at video games, what video games have done is like, let's give people achievements that they can grind for a decade. and it kind of taps into that neuroscience circuit of like wanting to master something, which if we didn't have this part of our brain, like we wouldn't learn how to walk. Yeah.

Right. And so in the parisocial way, I think we have a similar hijacking going on where like now you have some degrees of intimacy. Like now, Sasha, like there are people watching at home that despite, you know, all of our best efforts and I probably, I mean, honestly, sometimes you caught me off guard. I really can't blame myself. But sometimes I had a feeling I knew what was going to happen if I asked you a question. And so they've seen a vulnerable part of you. And so what's that going to trigger in their mind? Right.

Like normally, like when do I get to see someone bear their vulnerable self? It comes at a certain tier of relationship. And so now like in some brains out there, we've unlocked that reward, but the underlying foundation of the relationship is not there. and that's what gets confusing for people. Because at this point, they feel like they know you, Sasha. Yeah. They know you so well.

And they're not exactly wrong, right? Because they do know some things about you and there's a lot of authenticity. And I think part of what makes you like a successful content creator, a successful personality is sure you've got a mask. But I think you know how to let enough of the authenticity bleed through, right? I don't think you have to pretend to have fun. Like, I think you genuinely enjoy doing some of the things that you do. And there's like, there's like a calculated authenticity there.

And so when people see that calculated authenticity, it's still an authentic. There's an authenticity. There's an intimacy to it. And then that triggers like certain neurological or like sociological like programming. And then some people are able to navigate that activation of that programming pretty well. And they know how to respect a boundary. And some people get a little bit more confused. Yeah.

And I think that's why parasycial relationships happen. And it's interesting because you, you know, there is a certain like connection to your community, even that you feel. Right. Like, you know, 100%. Right. So, so like if we think about, you know, why is that happening? It's because the same thing is happening in your mind that when you're vulnerable and everyone sends hearts, you know, in the chat.

And then it's like there's a certain part of you. that feels like accepted, appreciated, loved, you know, and then it's sort of like, like, and then there are some streamers who let the confusion get the better of them, and there are some streamers who maintain boundaries, right? And then like there are some streamers, and then we had, I think we had someone on, like, over a year ago who was like a mod in someone's community, and then the person got really big. and then they felt like they were owed more and felt like they got abandoned and left behind

and all they sacrificed a lot to like, you know, bring this person, like help this person succeed. And then they felt like they were discarded afterward and things like that. So I think there are some streamers that, you know, will muddy that boundary a little bit.

Like I'm still confused about what happens when, like, do you ever, like what happens? when you see people from your chat at TwitchCon, you know. I've actually never been to TwitchCon. Either of I, so I don't know. But I've been to other, you know, I've, I DJ, well, pandemic. I haven't DJed in a long time, but I DJ.

But there's a different boundary there too because most of the time I'm on a stage. You know, I'm physically separated. But then sometimes it's like the club asks you to do like autographs afterwards, you know, or take some pictures. So even then that feels boundary to me, right? Because it's sort of like you're there as a DJ. But like I don't know what would happen, you know, if you run into someone on the street. And I'm like, it depends how people approach me really.

Okay. I'm pretty sensitive to things. So like if they feel safe to me and they're respectful, I'm pretty open. but like if I'm talking to somebody in eating a pasta or eating a taco and this has happened and you put a camera in my face like that's you know that that's not okay yeah of course but if you like if you're respectful in your approach it's it changes my attitude for sure um so so just going back to the parissocial relationship i think it like it comes down to like the fact that this relationship checks some of the boxes from a normal relationship. And I even hesitate

to, because you ask me the question, what's going to happen? I hesitate to use the word normal because I think what we're going to discover is like, you know, back in the day, there was like marriage. And then there was like people getting engaged. And then you have a girlfriend. And so like, like, you know, in India, the concept of a girlfriend was, is not, wasn't existent. So like I remember telling my mom, so I hid my girlfriend from my mom for years. And then like telling her like, oh, yeah, she's my girlfriend. And she was like, she's your friend. And I'm like, no, she's my girlfriend.

And she's like, does that mean that you're getting married? And I was like, no. And then she was like, wait, I'm confused. What's the point of having a girlfriend if you're not going to get married? Yeah. And it was just like, it's like a new construction that is not like, did not exist before, right? And she was just like so confused because she's like, there are friendships and there are marriages and there's nothing in between. And so now what's

happening is there's like a real life relationship and there's a parissocial relationship. And I think both of those are going to become like new versions of stuff. Right. Now there are open relationships and friends with benefits. And there are so many different things that like, like if you think about friends with benefits, that's an example of like it used to be that. that sexual activity came with certain stuff. And now people have evolved to say that, okay, we can have sexual activity without the other stuff. You can have friendship and sexual activity. And so my sense is that the parasycial relationship has already become a thing and it will continue to become a thing.

And even as social media gets more sophisticated, it will become more of a thing. Because I think what social media platforms are discovering is that the stronger the parasycial relationship, probably the higher the user engagement. Well, yeah, it's interesting. These things, like you said, these things have always existed. It's the same with like, I mean, going to see somebody at a concert, right? Yeah. I mean, there's, there, this thing still does exist, but with social media and specifically

with a live interaction, it totally changes the game. Yeah. So I think, I think the, the, sorry to cut, cut you off there, but I just wanted to like, completely echo your point because I think that if you think about the brain, right? Like if I, you know, if I'm a huge fan of like Pearl Jam and like I can listen to this dude's music and I can feel really connected to them. Like there's only so much stuff in my brain that gets checked. Yeah.

And then like if I see him at a concert, then like more stuff gets checked. And just like you said with live interaction, like what someone can do, Sasha, is they can talk to you and you will respond to them. Yeah. Right. And when someone, when someone comes and talks to you on a regular basis and you respond to them and you guys joke together and then like you come on our stream and you share some stuff and now they know you more and they feel like they really know you.

Like they're like it's, they're not wrong, right? Like they're checking these boxes of a relationship. Consistency. inside jokes, laughing together, having a good time together, being there, remember when, dot, dot, dot, dot. Yeah. Remember that time. And then like if you think about what's a real relationship, like those are all of the checkboxes. So I think it's going to get in a sense, quote unquote, worse.

But I think that parisocial, because people are going to figure out how to have like more interaction, right? Like they're going to figure out how to, you know, we're going to have like more inside jokes and we're going to have like emotes and we're going to have more stuff that can be like this is because like I think a big part of the parissocial relationship is it's ours Sasha. It's not yours. It's not mine. It's ours. I like that too. Yep. Like I do get something out of that. It does make me happy. And like I find myself telling my IRL friends and family things that happen on stream all the time. Like it does become a very important part of my life. So now we're now we begin to see that there is actually some degree of reciprocity, right?

That it's not just one way. That like they're making you laugh and you're making them laugh. Yeah. That when they're having a bad day, Theo Gray shows up. And when you're having a bad day, maybe the more observant members of your chat notice and they send you some support. And there's like absolutely a reciprocity. Yeah. Now as to what to do about it

I think Also because Sorry to cut you off But I don't want to forget Like I I see people or Not just on Twitch But on other platforms as well

Like Call people their besties Or call them Um Or like say I love you Yeah You mean the creators or the...

Yeah. Yeah. The creators saying that to their community. I mean, they're like... Again, there are a few people that I've actually become internet friends with that I do love.

Like, I have love for them, even though I've never met them. But then there's the actual chat side of things that, that, in my opinion, becomes so dangerous. What's dangerous about it? I think it sets...

It's... It's... wrong. It feels wrong on so many levels. What feels wrong about it? I'm probably speaking, I mean, it makes me think of just my own experiences. Like, I've dealt with real stalkers, IRL, and cyberstalkers. So I know what being online, what the territory is, you know, what comes with being online. And that is one of the very negative side effects of it, or hopefully not for everybody,

but it can be a very negative side effect. and I feel like that kind of sometimes there feels like this overabundance of fake positivity and I see it a lot and also in people that like we're going to manifest this and while that's all great you also have to remember like that life throws things at us and we have to be prepared to deal with those things when we when we don't get what we manifested right and I feel like setting up a community by telling them that you love them and then that and that they are your best friends. I think it's unfair to those people.

But it's... Well, I think the real challenge there is that for some streamers, they really do feel that way. Right? So I think that a lot of streamers are lonely and that some of the best connections that they do feel are like with their chat. Yeah. And I think that there's a lot of, because, you know, I'm not trying to, I

I recognize I'm sort of disagreeing. I agree that it's unhealthy, but I think that, like, we have to understand that real-life relationships are complicated. And part of what's nice about, like, you know, these relationships that you have with people online is it's like, it can be so much more simple. So much cleaner, so much more fun. Yeah, none of the baggage. You're right. It's like, I'm going to, we're just. going to hang out and chat, we're going to be vibing. And then there's some part of your brain that's

like, why would I want to hang out with real people who are just so filled with drama when I can just be viving with Twitch chat? And that's just like, I feel it. I absolutely feel it. Right? Yeah. So like I think our brain gets confused. Yeah. Or that the signals mean, different things now. Right. And it's hard because like if you really think about it, I mean, a lot of like, you know, a lot of online support can be so, I mean, I see this a lot. I suspect that a lot of, that streaming actually cultivates almost a particular kind of mental illness called borderline personality disorder where like, like, this is a, this is a kind of illness where, I mean, it's not, it's an illness, we call it that, but it's something

where like your sense of worth is to determine. by the way that you're treated. That's basically the way that I kind of think about it. And so I think that when our brains are exposed to a lot of judgment, that's how people sort of get borderline personality disorder. They sort of like get traumatized or abandoned early in life. And then I think like essentially what the internet does is like cultivates that same kind of growth because we get exposed to so much judgment. And then the interesting thing is that if you have that vulnerability, a lot of times people with BPD feel really good about them. when people treat them well.

And so now you suddenly have this source of like you can, you know, call to the internet. And the internet will answer your call and shower with you with love and support. And we'll say like, no, you are wonderful. Like we do love you. You're fantastic. And if you have that kind of emotional need and you become like, you know, you can kind of tap into it. And I don't really blame the people because it's like it's their brain, right?

They're like they're looking to feel a certain way and the internet can help them feel that way. So I think it's going to get in a sense worse. But I also think that there are certain things that we're going to have to do. Like we're going to have to evolve as humans to deal with this. And this is where, you know, personally, I'd like to spend more time with people who are on the other side of the social relationship. Yeah. Right? Like talk to people and be like, you know, how does it feel? And then like, hopefully through that as many people listen, they'll be like, oh, crap, that sounds like me. Like, I do that too. And then we'll sort of start to understand and like hopefully help those people because I don't in a sense, like I blame them kind of if they violate boundaries and don't respect things. Like I think that's, you know, you should be held accountable for your actions. But also as someone who has, you know, worked in prisons and stuff like that, I've come to appreciate that. You know, the psychological drives that cause us to do bad things probably can be helped in some way.

So, like, I'm all for, like, punishing a crime, but at the same time, like, rehabilitating the criminal. Absolutely. Absolutely. So you're calling Twitch, you're calling chat criminals. I'm just kidding. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to ruin a good moment, but I just, I guess. I couldn't let that joke go. Somebody else is going to do it if I didn't do it. I think there are a lot of things, but I don't think criminal is one of them.

No, no, no. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm just joking. Have to have some humor in there. But it's really fascinating. Yeah, I mean, I was about to ask you, you know, if there's someone in your community, yeah, but I don't think we should do that. But, you know, I think like, like in general, we should think about having people who,

or on the other side of a parasycial relationship, like, you know, we've done that a little bit on stream. I think it's something we could do more. But I think we have to understand, like, what's going on in these people's heads, like, probably explain to them. I mean, explain makes it sound like, you know, we have all the answers. But I think kind of try to figure out, like, because we have to do something. And so the last, I guess, so there's a system's perspective, right, where you can sort of equip

tools and things like that. But there's also, I think, like, a very human. component to it that we have to explore. That's just the lens that I look at. Yeah. I mean, I think it would be cool in the future to see if anybody from my community would be open to talking about that as well. I think the pan, obvious, not I think, we all have been able to observe that the

pandemic has only made things worse because it's forced us inside. And for some of us that are already maybe more introverted, myself included. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm somewhere in the middle. Like, I have no problem being alone, you know. But for this period of time, it's a different story. So we've all been feeling that isolation, even if we do have family, you know, even if we do have a support system. But it's really fascinating. And I feel like now, though, um,

Personally, between myself and my mods, we've sort of been able to now identify like red flags. It took a while. It took a like longer than you would probably think. But I also, I know part of that is that we've been, we've tried to be very gentle with people to understand that maybe somebody is suffering from mental health issues or things like this. So we want to tread lightly and be careful. But now we've sort of been able to identify certain behaviors. where we understand that it's easier to cut it off right when you see it happening. I mean, I think it could be very educational if you would share with us what those red flags might be.

But at the same time, I feel like that could be a mistake in some way. I can tell you something because it's going to be sort of vague anyways, which is there's just certain, it's very instinctual. but there's certain like ways of writing or patterns that you start to pick up on and you'll see things and say well that kind of reminds me of this other problem we had and we let that problem extend so let's not even give it a chance to grow let's just cut it off so that's very vague i know it's not a like a clear example of of what we've dealt with but there's just certain behaviors and patterns that we tend to pick up on and Yeah. So I'm, I'll say it. Like if I see something like we have a, you know, a way to communicate between us. It's like, uh, let's just like let's just flag this or or another model will say it. Like we're flagging this internally. And if anything else happens, then we're just going to ban. Yeah. So I'm hearing that, you know, subconsciously your brain has done some pattern recognition. Yeah. Right? So you guys have seen enough of it to where you know sort of like what it looks like,

what it smells like, kind of like, you know, sniff it out now. Yeah, so I think that there's a lot of room for research. Like, I think it would be really cool to actually do a study where we ask streamers. Like, we could probably like, you know, put assemble like common red flags. We could also do a study on, actually, I think we should, I think it'd be very cool to do a study on people who are on, you know, the chatting end of the parasycial relationship and, like, you know, do a qualitative research study where you take 30 people. You ask them, what is this experience like for you? Like, how do you feel? Where does it come from? You know, things like that.

You can also, like, we discovered all kinds of interesting things. We're hopefully publishing a paper on in-cells soon. And starting to do a paper hopefully on, I think we've got a project in the works on pornography addiction. And I think, especially in the pornography addiction, some very surprising results in terms of like things that you would not expect, like really simple things like being exposed to pornography at a very young age. From the consumer perspective? Yeah, yeah. So like, you know, you'll have like eight year olds who were shown pornography. And that's even before they've started to like experience like, you know, they're nowhere near puberty. And so, but it does something in the brain.

And also that pornography addiction doesn't seem to have really much to do with being, you know, sexually attracted to anything. It really seems to be more of a shortcut to like a dopamine release in the brain and like emotional suppression. So there's a lot of assumptions that pornography and perversion in some way are like related, but it appears that for pornography addicts, it's not the same. So I think that can confirm. Huh?

Can confirm. I don't quite know what you mean by that, but okay. Yeah, I'm also sort of a perv, but like in a healthy way. Okay. Yeah. Well, so my point is that, you know, I think perversion is a whole separate thing. It's just that people have expected these things to be associated. Exactly.

And they don't, they aren't necessarily. Yeah. And with parisocial relationships, I imagine if we spend the time like looking, we could start to figure out, you know, what's going on here. But yeah, sorry, you got me spilling for a second. No, it's really cool. I mean, I wanted to ask you these things. And I know a lot of people, a lot of people wanted to hear about this. I think it was very insightful and hopefully helpful for some people as well.

Now, I know I offered you a 15 to 30 minute spiel on why you procrastinate and how to fix it. Do you still want that? If you're down, yes. I would have to go to the bathroom really quickly. go for it. Cool. Okay. All right.

Let's do it. Let me figure out. I bet. Okay. I was just in teaching mode. And so, you know, once I get started, it's hard to stop me. And I'm sure that that was a funny joke. But my mind was not able to, once I get into teaching mode, there's so little I understand about innuendo.

So, ready to get to get. get started? Yeah. Okay. So the first thing, uh, Sasha is I want to explain to you a little bit about traditional Indian medicine or Ayurveda. So before I went to medical school, you sound familiar, are you familiar with that? Now, okay, that's what you asked me earlier. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yes. I don't know a lot about it, but okay. Um, it was the way you pronounce it. I, I, I obviously butcher it. And So yeah sometimes people people will pronounce it i or veda yes so what i'm going to try to do real quick is okay yeah i'm just getting prepped okay so the first thing is that not everyone's mind is the same and i know it sounds obvious but like you know how like some people have what we call fast metabolisms and they can eat whatever they want to and not put on a whole bunch of weight and then other people are big boned right? And there are people who can eat salads all day and they'll still be like, you know, above average in terms of weight. And the other interesting thing is that like obviously there are these classes of people that may have something of a, oh, one second.

I was on the wrong way up. So there are these different classes of people, right? So like, and it may run in families, but there are people from like Africa that have fast metabolisms and people completely unrelated from like Croatia that have fast metabolisms. So this is a very very. variance within the population of the human species. Yeah. Turns out that fast metabolism people and big bone people actually share particular genes. So they're actually like these different classes of people.

So a couple thousand years ago in ancient India, there were a group of doctors, Ayurvedic doctors, who sort of noticed that human beings have like these shared qualities. And so what they decided is like in order to understand that because they couldn't, you know, do a genetic analysis back then. And they started using elements to explain like these attributes of people. So what they said is that there are some people who are like the wind. And these people are Vata. So they are, they tend to be prone to things like dry skin.

They tend to be prone to things like allergies. They tend to have fast metabolisms. They also tend to have eyes that are bigger than their stomach, which means that they feel very, very hungry, but then actually don't need to eat a whole lot of food. they also notice cognitive correlations that these people have so that they get interested in things very easily but get bored in things very easily. That these people tend to be quick studies but also forget if they don't get like, you know, repeated. Like they easy to learn, easy to forget. Okay.

Right. And so then so they came up and they said like, oh, this person is like the wind. Okay. And then they also like notice that there are other people. So some people are more argumentative. They're more driven. They're medium-bodied. They tend to have certain physical problems with, like, indigestion.

Their back teeth tend to be quite yellow. All kinds of interesting correlations that they made. And then the third type is like the earth type. So these people tend to be big-boned. They tend to be like slow to learn, but slow to forget. They tend to be quite resilient and can tolerate punishing situations for long periods of time, but are also slow to learn. to like get out a bad situation.

So they'll like stay in unhealthy relationships for prolonged periods of time. Whereas the Vata folks, the wind folks will be like, yeah, I'm into this person and yeah, I'm not into that person anymore. And so what they noticed were that these sort of elemental forces. And if you look at any human being, you can kind of rank their wind, their fire, and their earth.

And so some people may have a dominant fire. Some people may have like a dominant wind and fire. Some people may have, you know, any combination. and that disease essentially manifests from your levels getting too high or too low. So like people who have a high amount of VATA, if their VATA increases a little bit more, they will have things like allergies. They'll have things like ADHD. They'll have things like anxiety.

They'll have insomnia, but not the kind where it's hard to fall asleep, the kind where it's hard to stay asleep or they have interrupted sleep. that vathas have dreams of flying, for example. There are all kinds of weird correlations. Do you have dreams of flying? Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah.

So you are, you are, Sasha, my friend, a textbook vata. And a lot of what you describe as procrastination is a manifestation of your Vata mind. You talked so many times about not being a nine to fiver. Vattas hate the nine to five. They can't do the nine to five. It's just not how their mind is. You can work from midnight till midnight one day a week. But you would rather do that than nine to five, five days a week.

So that's just the Vata mindset. Absolutely. Right? So it's like, it's like you. So you have to think about yourself like the wind. The wind blows really hard in one direction and then stops. Yes. And then blows this way and then that way.

Right. So the first thing to understand is that you have a Vata mind. So your temperament is going to be a little bit more procrastination oriented because Vatas also thrive with crises and deadlines. They do their best work. Their mind is sort of like, eh, I can't get excited about that. Oh, shit, it's happening tomorrow. Let's go.

Right? Like, yes. So the Vata mind is going to be prone to what we call quote unquote procrastination. but I don't think that's really the right way to think about it. I think the reason we call it procrastination is because our society is structured for bitters and guffas for the most part. So like if we think about like, you know, the nine to five, like where does that come from? It's because bitters, which tend to be good managers, by the way, Vathas are like very difficult as managers because they're all over the place. So bitters are really good.

The fire types are really good at imposing organization and structure. So like the people who like being like the manager tend to be like a little bit more bit or guffa oriented. And so they created a system that worked for them. And then we pushed all the vatas into the system. So school is another good example of like it's eight to three and like that's the way it should be. Whereas there's actually overwhelming evidence that starting school at eight o'clock is actually bad for learning and bad for kids. Yeah. There's no need to study for that many hours a day.

So, anyway, coming back to you. So I think the first thing to understand is that if you want to quote unquote procrastinate less, you should balance your VATA. The more your wind element raises, the more procrastination prone you will become. And by procrastination prone, I mean that there will be times of your life where your mind is prone to wander. And like, it can't sit still. Right. So, like, you can eat certain things that will help your mind, like, be calmer and more grounded. Like, your procrastination is going to be inversely proportional to the degree that you're grounded.

Okay. That's the first thing. So, like, you can sort of, you know, yeah, so that's VATA, okay? So a couple of solutions there. One is you can lower your Vata. You can be more grounded. But the other thing to recognize is that your mind is going to optimally function when you're juggling a few different things. That's just how it works.

Okay. So now let's get to a little bit more on you. So the first thing to understand about procrastination is that it's the Vata mindset. Okay. We're going to leave the Ayurveda stuff over here for now. And so we can talk about balancing your Vata and stuff like that. But then when we think about procrastination, you had started, Sasha, I believe, with some kind of fear of success, right? That's what I've heard a lot of people say.

and that's something that personally I cannot identify with. So, and this is where... I read the alchemist. Okay. What do you, why do you think you procrastinate? Well, when you asked me that earlier, it took me a minute, but then I went back to, um, it came to me, which is I feel like I am, I get overwhelmed. And so it's hard for me to be decisive.

Um, and figure out what is the most important task at hand. Okay. So here are a couple of things. So like we talked about before, I think a big solution to your procrastination, if you're overwhelmed and having trouble prioritizing, you've already lost the battle.

Because the problem is how stuff gets on your plate. Right. Right. Right. So this is where, you know, we're not going to, I'm just going to offer a couple of hypotheses. These could be right.

These could be wrong. But I think that there's a certain desperation that you have because I'm going to sort of like analyze you a little bit here. Okay. So this is something you should definitely talk to with a therapist if you feel like this resonates with you. But what I'm getting the sense of is because of something about your background and because you're walking a tightrope, I feel like that emotional feeling of walking a tight rope doesn't allow you to pass on opportunities. right? Because you feel like I have to grow, I have to adapt, I have to stay up with the trends. We don't really need to go into that. My point is that in terms of not fearing, it's a fear of success. This will become clear in a second. I don't think yours is a fear of success. What I get from you is more of like a desperation of like being on the tightrope and like you don't have a choice.

Does that sort of make sense? It does. The thing that I'll, I'll slightly disagree with there is that like not being able to say no because I've actually been very aware of that over the past. I would say like four or five years. And it's something I've really worked on and learning to say no. Okay. So but that being said, what you're saying is all the other things I'm still putting on my plate. Right. I'm still putting this.

And one last thing before I forget. But I just want to say it and then we can go back to time management. And then we can circle back to that. Yeah. So this is where I'd say that, you know, if you've learned how to say no and you still wind up with too many things on your plate, how does that happen? Right? Because I think that it's not about saying, I don't know, it still feels to me like there's an emotional driver which is determining how much stuff ends up on your plate in the first place. Right? So like I maybe it's not emotional, but I would explore that. So like let's just put emotional driver. We don't need to go there right now. Okay. So now I'm going to talk more generally. So I tend to think about procrastination like a couple different kinds of procrastination. Okay. So the first is what I would call idealistic procrastination. So what this means is that some people don't act because they're not ready.

So like, for example, if I want to apply for a job and I procrastinate on applying for a job, the reason that I'm procrastinating, because I want to wait until my resume is good. Like, I need to revise my resume. Like, I can send a crappy resume today or I can send the perfect resume tomorrow. So I'm not going to apply for a job until everything is ideal. Yes. Right? So, like, this is where, like, you have this, you have this idea in your mind of how this task should be executed. Right? Idea or even fantasy of execution.

Yes. I can relate to that. And that's something that I've also been working on is letting go of certain things and understanding that like nothing can always be perfect. Yeah. So like it's the chase for perfection that keeps people paralyzed in the moment. Mm-hmm. Right? Like I know it sounds kind of weird, but like, Sometimes, you know, sometimes it almost feels to be like you'd take a 100% chance at an F as opposed to a 20% chance at an A. And it's like people are like, yeah, I'd rather like I want to do it perfectly or not at all. And that's where, you know, because you have this idea of like what you want it to look like, what it'll accomplish. Like I'm going to do such a like it's going to be so great when I do it.

but I haven't set that circumstance up, so I'm just not going to do it. Or haven't been good with time management to allow yourself to be prepared. We'll get to time management later, okay? So idealistic procrastination is something that I kind of think of is like, this is a little bit psychological, it's cognitive, right? And it's actually like attachment based. And what I mean by that is we're attached to a particular. outcome. So like we're attached to it being a certain way. Like like my favorite example is one that I

have in my head all the time. I will start going to the gym once I'm a little bit in shape. Because. Oh God. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so if you kind of think about it, it's the attachment to like not wanting to look out of shape when you go to the gym that keeps you from going to the gym. So oddly enough, the solution here is a little bit more like grief. Like you got to just let that go and like learn to take an L. Yeah. Right? You got to just be like, you know what? It's going to suck. Yep. Or A.L, I guess. So, so that's where, where I would say like, so this is different because it's not really emotional. It's like, I want this thing to happen perfectly and you have to let go of like, you have to grieve that perfect outcome to be able to move forward. Yeah. Okay. So another good example is I,

I'm working with someone who's going to enroll in college once. they get their like sleep schedule fixed, right? And so their sleep schedule never gets fixed so they never go to college. It's a form of idealistic procrastination. So second is avoidance procrastination. So this is closer to what the Instagram folks or whatever social media folks are saying. So this tends to be based in emotions. So this is sort of like the avoidance procrastination is actually a protective mechanism.

And what it's protecting you from is like a particular emotion. So for example, let's say I want to ask someone out, but I'm afraid of rejection. So I don't ask them out. And I tell myself, I really want to ask him out. I really want to ask him out. So in a sense, you could call that procrastination because I never get off my ass and ask someone out. But what I'm really trying to do is like avoid the emotional possibility of rejection. Yeah. So sometimes when I talk to people, who want to, you know, find a job, like they feel stupid going in and like asking for, um, they feel stupid like going in and like asking for a job application. They don't need to feel stupid, but they just do. So a lot of times, uh, like, how do you tell if you have avoidance procrastination? If people use umbrella terms, like if they call themselves bad, lazy, stupid, or incompetent and that's the reason they're procrastinating, that is likely to be an avoidance procrastination. The things that avoidant procrastinators tell themselves is usually diagnosing them themselves with an unfixable problem. Like, I'm lazy. That's why I procrastinate. And like laziness

is like it's an attribute of who you are. There's nothing to do about it. There's no, you know, it's kind of just like, so like, oh, you drew the short straw. You're, lazy in life, sucks to be you. You know, it sort of doesn't, you can't do anything about it. Does that make sense? Yes. So the other thing that these people tend to do is rational, a lot of rational justifications. So they'll give themselves lots of reasons why they're not doing something. But at the end of the day, it's usually emotional. Oh, you know, like, and it may even look like idealistic procrastination. It's sort of like, yeah, I'll ask this person out once I get in shape. And sure, that's like there's an idealistic component to it, but it's really,

what's really driving that is like the fear of like being rejected. And what they're trying to do is like control circumstances so that they can avoid emotions. This is another sign. Right? Yeah. And this is where like asking someone out, I'm going to wait till I'm sure they're in love with me before I even ask them out. Because I'm afraid of the rejection. Yeah. And maybe there's fear of success. In your case, there may be an emotional driver. which could be like avoidance procrastination. I don't really think that's the case with you. We'll get back to you in a second.

And then the third, oh, this may be you, Sasha, operational procrastination. Okay. So this is more frontal. But what I mean is frontal lobe. Sorry. I was just going to ask, do you mean frontal lobe?

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So this is where like, so vatas tend to be prone to this type, because front of low problems also manifest as like anxiety and ADHD. So like this is kind of like an ADHD procrastination. Tends to be or falls under this category.

But what I would say is so this is the kind where like, so I have a three year old and I have a five year old. And if I tell the five year old to clean up their room, they're able to do that. But if I tell the three year old to clean your room, she's not really able to do that. makes sense? Yeah. What's the difference between the three-year-old and five-year-old? Why can the five-year-old clean their room, but the three-year-old can't? I would say the age is the first thing I think of. Like a five-year-old is a little bit more independent. They can stay, you know, they can focus for longer periods of time compared to a toddler who's just only been walking for a while and is still pretty dependent on parents. Yeah. So if we look at like what the age

means, right, what's the difference between a three-year-old's brain and a five-year-old's brain? You've sussed it out instinctively perfectly, right? So that the five-year-old can kind of stay focused. But if you really think about it, what stay-focused means is actually breaking down the task into its component parts. So this is where, like, people feel overwhelmed if they're operational procrastinators. And what that means is, like, the five-year-old understands that cleaning the room is putting away the toys, putting away the books, and putting away my stuffed animals. I can tell the three-year-old, put away your stuffed animals, and she can understand that. But she's not able to take the abstract of cleaning the room and breaking it down

into its component pieces. And so when she looks at the dirty room, her mind is overwhelmed with like, how do I break down this task and execute on it? Does that make sense? Yes. Absolutely. So like when we think about something like, and this is also like a problem in gamers too, so gamers are prone to this. Because video games operationalize stuff for us, right? They're like, okay, here's the quest.

Go collect eight of these things. Then go here. Then go here. Then go here. Then go here. So we're not really taught how to like abstract out things from start to finish. Even our sandbox games basically. like teach us how to play in the sandbox, right? It's not truly free form. So when you take gamers

and you tell them to go find a job, there are actually a thousand small tasks. But our minds actually are not like natural at breaking up those tasks. So finding a job feels overwhelming because we don't know how to break it down into its component parts. So does that sound like that describes you? Yeah. Definitely. And I, yeah. Go ahead. And I feel like I, I do better when I, I waver a lot.

So like I'll have really disciplined stints where I've lists and I've checklists and sub-checklists. And I got like the stuff that is for me in my personal life, just like random stuff that has to be done. And then the stuff that I want to do professionally, creatively. Mm-hmm. And then I'll fall off. Yeah, so that's Vata. Okay.

That's where, I mean, I'd say that that sounds very Vata to me. So here's what I'd suggest for you. Okay? The first is that like, you know, maybe there's some weird emotional shit in there. Who knows? If it's not what floats your boat,

no big deal. Sorry, I'm done with the iPad part. Yeah, I'm just like, you're scrambling. Sorry. Yeah, it's okay. So here's what I'd say, Sasha, for you. If you procrastinate, like the first thing to understand is that you're going to be the most successful when you have external prompts.

So you're going to respond well to crises and deadlines. The next thing to understand is that procrastination is not a problem. Procrastination is actually a solution. So if our brain, so this is like literally what happens. Our brain has the circuit that tries to figure out how to be efficient. And so what your brain tells you when you're in like, let's say you're in school and it's like, I could start studying today and I can get an A and I can study one hour a day for 30 days. But our brain is actually like, you know what, we can get a B if you just cram the night before. And so if you actually think about an energy investment, doing things perfectly is not efficient.

It's actually very inefficient. Because why would I want to study 30 hours for an A when I can squeak by with a B with six? Like, why would I do that? So in your case, I'd say, be careful about why things get on your plate is number one. See if there's some kind of desperation. There's some kind of like, because we see this a lot with streamers where like you feel like you can't afford to pass. Sounds like you've learned how to say no. Second thing to think about in terms of your procrastination is what I would do is pick like three or four things and rotate between them.

So what you'll find is that the way for you to work 80 hours a week is to have four different projects that work twice. 20 hours that you need 20 hours a week. If you devote yourself to one project for 40 hours a week, you will do a worse job than four projects at 20 hours a week. Even though technically you're working half as much in one scenario, it's just going to not bring out the like the interest, right? Like when you get excited about something. Well, I also like my mind immediately goes to when you know you should. should stop working on something because your brain and body are tired, but you push through because you just want to finish and get it over with. And then you make mistakes that then add hours

having to finish that. That's where so that makes a lot of sense. So I think your problem with Sasha, you don't need to motivate yourself to work. So people who have a problem with procrastination think that I need to motivate myself when I don't feel like working. Right? It's actually the exact opposite. it. You need to demotivate yourself at the right times and then your procrastination will get way better. You need to restrain your motive. It's two sides of the same coin. You need to restrain your motivation when you get excited. When it's time to stop, you need to restrain yourself and stop. So procrastination in your case, I don't think is like it's not about a lack of motivation. It's actually about a lack of restraint.

And I think that as you have fewer things, like, because like you said, okay, I want to finish it. Now I made a bunch of mistakes. So the next day, your to-do list has been inflated with stuff that should have never, like, it would have been easier to just stop and finish it today. Yeah. Right? And so, like, I would, I really rein in your VATA. And then also try to cultivate kind of a system around it, which is like, you.

You know, get other people to, like, be beholden to other people and you'll do a good job. Yeah. Because left to your own devices, it's going to be a mess. Dangerous. Let other people, like, you know, my team is really good about, like, forcing me into meetings. They just throw something on my calendar because they've learned, unfortunately, that if they, like, ask me to do something, it's never going to happen. If they're just like, hey, I need you to show up at this time. And it feels weird because I outrank them in some way, but they have to give me or.

and we've figured out that that's what works best. Yeah. I don't know if that was helpful for or not, but that's my spiel. Yeah, it is helpful. It's interesting. And I was helpful for people watching too. I wanted to figure out a way to pose this, but like, I don't know, it's coming out more as a statement. So I don't want to say it.

Like, doesn't make sense. But I kind of go, I'm going, my mind keeps going back to that question that was posed earlier, which was like, let me just bring. it up because I don't want to paraphrase it. One second. Okay. So the actual question was how long should breaks actually be and how long should you work before taking them? So I mean, that's kind of, that's a little bit broad because that can mean like in a work day or that can mean always, you know. So yeah, so that depends on your Ayurvedic doha. So this is the problem with questions that people ask. like Western science is about on average what works for the most number of people. So when the FDA comes up with a 2,000 calorie a day recommendation,

that's not going to work as well for the fast metabolism people versus the big bone people. So when should you take breaks? So what I'll literally do when I do like corporate consulting is we'll do Ayurvedic analyses of everyone's dosha's. And then what we'll do is I'll tell them. Like if you're a Vata, you should take frequent short breaks. You should plan on working four, two hour breaks. blocks in the day. Start early, start at 6 a.m. Try to finish like as early as possible.

So like Vata has also come online fast and run out of stamina fast. So how often should you take breaks? You should take them frequently because you're prone to burnout. Like if you push yourself, you're going to pay for it the next day. So you need like preemptive breaks. If you're up it the leaving tasks undone is going to be very infuriating. So you've got to like push through. like work like pitas are decent nine to fivers and and if you're gaffa if you're like the earth element like you probably need you can go a longer time without a break but then you probably need a long break when it's time for a break so as a vata when I go on a 10 day vacation I've I'm done relaxing on day five and I'm like I'm going to do some work now yeah so like

the vata's like but a boy like I know like I know need three-day weekends every week. Because on day four, I'm like, oh, my God, I've worked so long. On Tuesday morning, it's like, oh, when is the weekend? You know? Yeah. And then by like, by Sunday morning, if I like, don't work on Friday, by Sunday morning, I'm like, let me get back to work. Like, let's go. You know, so frequent breaks that are shorter for VATAS, you know, medium-length breaks at decent intervals, nine to five evenings off. And then for Gaffa's, like, you can work seven days, 10 days, go for it and then take like four days off. You know, it sort of depends. That's what I'd say. Yeah. And then a question that I have that kind of ties into all this is,

I kind of started to mention it, but I feel like I'm really, like I go through these moments, like I said, where when I'm really disciplined with like, let's say it's a list, for example, and these are the things that need to be accomplished. These are the things that I just want to accomplish. When I'm really proactive at staying on top of that and I can actually see like things being crossed out done, done, done, it makes me feel good. So it motivates me to continue. And then something will happen. Like a disruptor in life will happen. It is so hard for me to pick back up where I left off. So that disruptor is a separate conversation. So this goes to, okay, so let's just analyze that in two ways.

The first is you got to be careful about the motivation of checking something off. Because when you check something off, what do you feel like doing? It depends. But usually like it, I want to keep going. So what's your problem? You need to learn how to restrain yourself. Mm-hmm. Because like, you're like, yeah, let's keep going.

Let's go. Let's go, baby. And then you may run out of steam before you. you realize it. So I'd say really be careful. When you check, when you're done with your work for the day, Sasha, you have to learn how to restrain yourself and be done with the work for the day. Don't keep on adding on work. That's why your plate is so fucking full. Yes. I'm terrible. Yes. I'm afraid. I'm telling you. Your problem is like you're so motivated that you take on new projects and then you're overwhelmed. And then I'm like, or like then the next day I'm exhausted.

And then it's hard for me to get the day started. So this is where you got to be careful because you say something throws me off. But the question. question is, what is the stat? Yeah. Hey, we have a meeting. Oh, shit. Sorry. We have a meeting. I thought it was at four. Okay. I'll just finish this up. And then I got it. Apparently, I have a meeting. Case in point. See, I didn't restrain myself. We were supposed to, we were supposed to stop an hour ago. So I got excited. And so I have a crisis and deadline that comes and like restrains me. Perfect. This is great. Yeah, exactly. So I'll I'll just illustrate this. So I'd be careful about your motivation and what you tack on because then you say when something throws you off, what, you know, how is your reserve energy when that disruptor comes? Because if you were overly motivated yesterday, it's going to be easier to get thrown off. And then what happens is we look at the disruptor, but we don't, like, we look at the wave

that knocked us off, but we don't look at the health of our boat. Yeah. So what you really need to focus on is like, you know, having a. steady boat restraining yourself and then you'll be more resilient against disruptions. That being said, you know, disruptions are absolutely a thing. And sometimes you can have a great boat and you can still have, you know, a tsunami and you know, it's over. But anyway, does that make sense? Yes, definitely. Okay. Yeah. So restrain yourself. Do less, not more. And that goes, yeah, this, I'll have to continue with chat too. But like that I think goes back into

at time management. My lack of it. My lack of it. I have to go now because I've done a bad job at time management. And so the way that I stay successful is by having crises. Okay, she's. Yeah, sorry, Sasha. We got to, you got to.

Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Bye. Bye. This is great. And apparently I skip lunch.

Oh, man. Okay. Okay. Bye. Yeah. Bye. Bye. Boy, that ended abruptly. Let's raid someone.

We're going to, is I ping Tai Chi? We got to go. Gotta go, chat. Got to go. Let's go do some Tai Chi. Calm down. I got to run, chat. Love you guys.