HealthyGamerGG - Dr. K Meets the Raid Boss | Self-Esteem & Beating Yourself Up

Episode Date: November 10, 2020

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Welcome. Thanks for coming on. And what's your... And what do you go by? Minnie. Minnie. And what are we talking about today, Minnie? Um, can I have a second?

Yeah, of course. Oh my God, she's using my own techniques against me. I'm just really nervous. I can't think straight. Okay. You can think Crooked Nob. big deal. Yeah, take a second. Okay. Do you want to... Sorry. Nope. For what? For using my techniques against me? Yeah. People said this day would come. They said, what is Dr. Keg going to do with someone's... Yeah, so what are you nervous about? It's okay to be nervous. Oh, um, I don't know. I've been nervous this whole week to talk to you.

Okay. And like, be on stream. Okay. But, um... Let's start with what does that mean? You've been nervous all week. Can you tell us about that? Like, my heart wouldn't like stop beating if I thought about it. And like, I just, my stomach hurt all the time. And like, oh, my God. Sorry, that sounds really.

What are you sorry for? I don't, like, I don't know. Okay. Do you feel like you did something wrong? Do you feel like you did something wrong just now? A little bit. Yeah, that's weird, right? Yeah.

Yeah, sometimes we feel like we do things wrong. And so, if I were to tell you, I don't think you've done anything wrong, how would you, what happens in you if I say that? Um, I think I'd have, like, split reactions. Like, one would be like, oh, okay, he doesn't. think I did something wrong, but then the other would be like, well, I, I feel like I did something. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird how that works, right? So there's a part of you that is reassured, and then there's a part of you that's not reassured. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Were you, were you nervous about doing a bad job? Yes. Well, you're doing an awesome job. Thank you.

Because even when you share with us that, like, hey, there's a part of me that would be reassured, and there's a part of me that would be like, I'm still doing a bad job. He's just being nice. Yeah. I'm actually messing up. Right? And so that's what...

And I didn't even do anything. Yeah. Right. So here's the thing. So if we really look at that, Minnie, it's like the feeling of doing a bad job doesn't actually come from our interaction. It doesn't come from anything that you do.

It just comes from you. Yeah. Right? Right. And you're doing a great job because this is exactly what people with is what we're here to do. You're doing it. Even if you do a bad job, that's still a good job because people come here to do a bad job. And then we learn about it. And so you can't, you literally can't do a bad job. But you can try. I like your room. Sorry. No, it looks great. Thank you. What do you like about it? I like the chair in the back. Yeah, it's a cool chair Yeah

Yeah Oh Sorry Did we mess up again? No, no I'm just getting flustered I'm okay Okay

It's okay to get flustered It's gonna be a painful hour and a half Mini Good luck with that Can I drink some water Absolutely Drink water stay hydrated we're going to need it um so i understand that you wanted to talk some about

self-esteem and and confidence yeah can you tell me what you mean by that um so hmm where i start so i i've kind of when i was little i didn't really struggle with like confidence issues. Like, I thought I was really cool and I didn't worry too much about, like, messing up or anything. I mean, I did, but it wasn't to the point of, like, you know, shaking my leg and having a panic attack. But, like, in, I think near the end of, I think near the. end of middle school and then all the way up till now, I've, I've been noticing that I don't really feel good about myself at all.

Okay. I kind of just hate myself. Okay. Yeah, so I guess that's what we're here to talk about. Cool. I mean, you know, not cool that you do that. cool that we're here to talk about it. And I noticed that when you say,

I kind of hate myself, you laugh. Right? And what's your understanding of what you feel when you say that and why you laugh? Well, I kind of laugh when I talk about my problems because

I feel like if I say it in a serious tone, And people are going to think that, like, it's too much. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I guess I just, like, laugh when I, when I'm saying something regarding, like, my mental help.

Sure. So when you say people are going to think it's too much, what would be too much about it? What's more than people can handle? What makes it more than people can handle? Well, I think when someone talks about, like, if they're feeling sad or upset or anxious or something, I usually think that people won't like to hear about it. So, yeah. Okay. Yeah, because that kind of stuff, like, spreads.

What do you mean? That kind of stuff spreads? mean? Like, I think talking to someone with anxiety and depression can, like, at first you can, it can be helpful to talk to them, but like, you can also get trained in the process of, like, talking to them. So I don't want to do that to other people. Okay. So what I'm hearing you say is that sometimes you can, it can feel good to talk to other people, but then you can almost become addicted to burdening them. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So I notice you say that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I choose my words carefully. So let's think about a couple things I want us to pay attention to, okay, Minnie?

One is people are going to think. right? So like let's see how much of what causes you suffering is people are going to think. So that's going to be like a key phrase that we're going to look out for, okay? Okay. Second thing is, you know, I think that being a burden is something that we can also kind of keep an eye out for. And so let's see if we can pay attention and even if people are watching if they can sort of like pay attention. like let's see if we can learn and maybe touch a cat can see it too okay so you said that um around seventh or eighth grade you started to use a strong word you said hate yourself or you

said that you hate yourself what do you hate about yourself well like i kind of hate myself well i was thinking about this the other day and good for you um um like exterior-wise, I just hate how I look, but interior-wise, like, on the inside, I just feel like I'm a shitty person when it's extreme. And, like, I just feel like I cause people around me, like, sadness, and I don't like that about myself. You cause people around you sadness. Burden? Yeah, burden. There it is. Okay. So good. So we caught it. Okay. So, and you say on the exterior. So that's a strange, it sounds to me like you're trying to avoid saying something. When you say on the exterior, I assume we're talking about your physical appearance. Yes, yes. Okay. Sorry, my words sometimes, like, yeah, I, like try to think of a word to say, but then, like, I can't really think about it.

Yeah. So I'm not going to try to be harsh here, but case in point, we just had a, I don't know if you were watching the stream, but we just had someone say that they, you know, they're ugly. Me? No, no, no, no. Oh, they're like the stream. They were talking about themselves on stream. No, no, don't say that. But if they said that about, wait, hold on.

So you say, don't say that about themselves, but if they had said that about you, then what would be your reaction? I mean, I'd agree. I don't like. I don't agree. Right? No, no. So they were talking about themselves. Right.

And so I'm just curious whether that word feels loaded to you and you avoid using it for a particular reason. Which word? Ugly. Yeah. It's a loaded word. Yeah. Definitely. And what's it loaded with?

Just like a lot of. I mean, when I think of the word ugly, it can't ever be like good. Okay. That makes sense. Yep. So there's that. And then it can make other people really sad if you say to them, then. Ah.

Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. Okay. Okay. So number one is ugly is like comes with permanence and hopelessness. there's like no chance for change yeah wait well to hmm i don't know i think but at the same time i think ugly's kind of subject to like okay i would agree but okay so let's see like what just happened there

like what happened so it's interesting right because you kind of talked just earlier you said like ugly is like can't do anything about that. But then, so I want you to notice as we just start to like look at your, your feelings and we don't say you're wrong, right? So I didn't say, Mandy, don't think that about yourself. You know, you're beautiful. We're all beautiful. That's what my friends like to say.

Yeah, right? And so let's think about that. So I think if people, I mean, the impression that I got was that you had a little bit of a light bulb go off in your head. as we started to look at ugliness, it sounded like you felt pretty hopeless about it, but then you were like, but actually,

it's actually kind of subjective. So I don't know if we got to the point of maybe I'm not, but I got the sense you were looking at it in a way that was a little bit calmer. And the interesting thing is what happens when you feel ugly and you tell your friends when you burden them, right? And what do you say to them? About what I...

About feeling ugly? or feeling like you don't like your exterior, as you put it? I don't know. Like, I was just talking about this with my other friend yesterday. I was telling her I felt like not confident about how I look. And then she was telling me that like, that I was kind of like self-sabotage, sabotaging myself. Then I told her that I'm sorry and I sound really frustrating.

And I felt that like that's what I told her. And so let's think about that exchange, right? So you express a vulnerability to her. She tries to help you with it, tries to maybe reassure you, maybe tries to give you a way forward. And then how do you respond? I'm sorry. Yeah, right? So let's think about that.

So that's just, that's one possibility. So that's going to be the possibility of reassurance or problem solving. Like if we were to tell you Minnie, I think that you are not ugly at all. I think you're a wonderful person. Actually, that's not even about your physical appearance. I've trained myself so hard to not comment on people's physical appearance that I find it actually hard. To comment. Yeah.

Because I think it just messes things up. But if I were to call you pretty, if I said, Minnie, you're very pretty. Right? What would you say? How would how would you react? I'd probably say thank you like yeah, but then on the inside I'd probably think no. Okay. So there's an important lesson to be learned here, right? So the first thing is that like when people try to tell you that you're wrong, you just dig your heels in the heels and deeper, right? Like you're just like no. Incorrect. Yeah. Okay. It's like my immediate response. Yep. And so then, then, okay, so we've got burden. We've got sort of the idea of like reassurance doesn't really work. So let's try to figure out if there's some way that we can help you with those feelings without telling you that you're wrong. So you said kind of switching gears for a second, I'm going to ask you a little bit more about your past. Is that okay?

Okay, sure. So you said around seventh or eighth grade is when you started to be, started to feel what exactly? just like self-hatred, but also a lot of depression, like depressive phase episodes and like anxiety. Okay. Did you see, and you're allowed to not answer any question you don't feel comfortable with, right? But I think it would just be helpful. Did you see a mental health provider who during that time? Okay, so it sounds. So like not then, but starting high school. And then up until today, like, I saw therapists and stuff. Okay.

And do you find that helpful? Yes and no. Good answer. So what's helpful and what isn't? So I've seen about six therapists now because half of them was because we just didn't click. And then the other half was because I'd say either move or like just technically. things. But all of them, they were really helpful in, like, helping me find resources, like, who to call when

you're not okay or, like, or just, like, yeah, stuff like that. But, and also they were helpful with helping me, like, identify a problem. That makes sense. But then I felt like, and I've definitely made progress in like the sense that I can get out of Ben now and do work and that kind of stuff. But I think everything after realizing a problem and giving it technical solutions hasn't really worked out yet. What do you mean by technical solutions? Like stuff that Stuff like

Like I still feel like shit But I can at least like Sorry my brother passed by I still feel like shit but I can at least like Go about my day now Okay cool So let me see if I understood you correctly

So it sounds like You know there have been times where they provided you with the resources that have been helpful I commend you for not sticking with people that you didn't feel like were a good fit. I think that's really important. So a lot of people think that if they see a therapist and they don't like it, they don't like therapy. But you may just not like that therapist. It's kind of like going to a restaurant and saying, oh, I hate all restaurants. And it's like you just may not like that kind of food.

Right. So that's really awesome on your part. I think you, you know, I commend you for doing that. And what I'm also hearing from you is, yeah, sorry? Oh, no, you can, you can. So then the next thing that I kind of heard, which is, you know, tricky, but I'm glad you're being honest about it, is that, like, you're kind of living your life. Like, you can get out of bed and stuff, but internally you still feel like shit. I think I can live my life to the extent where it doesn't pain other people to see me upset.

like family and friends. But, um, yeah, that's why I was, I wanted to talk about self-esteem because I just feel like I'm not good enough to try like new things and, and stuff. Okay. So there's that. Look at you steering the conversation. Oh, no, not me. Shocking.

Right? Now, how do you feel when I point that out to you? Um, I feel like I've been called out. Called out? Yeah. I called you out. That's because that's what I did. Yeah. I feel to be called out. Bit embarrassed. What are you embarrassed by? Um, uh, I'm not, I'm not sure.

Okay. So the first thing is when I called you out, is that a good calling out or a bad calling out? I'm not sure Okay, cool Actually, yeah Yeah So who are we here for today, Minnie? Me? Yes

That is the correct answer How does that feel? A bit weird Yes Yeah That is the right answer too What feels weird about that? That I'm

Having a therapy session with the dude I saw on YouTube for the past month in front of thousands of audience, I guess. Not the answer that I was expecting, but a fair one. What I was expecting was that, you know, like, you don't, we don't, I don't imagine that you do many things in your life where you come first, where it's about you.

And it's about what you want, right? I'm not sure if that's true. Tell me about that. I just, I don't know. Like, when I was getting therapy, like, for the first time, I felt really selfish because my mom didn't want me to. And my dad either. I don't think they realized I was depressed.

But I was... What did they think? What's going on? I guess just like teenage angst or something. And like I was having problems with like toxic friends and stuff. So I guess they thought like we had a fight and I was feeling sad about that. But I was kind of realizing that something was wrong. So I wanted to get therapy.

But my mom was. was, well, she didn't really, like, she preferred. She told me that she preferred. I didn't get therapy, but also I, like, told her I wanted it. So she did look for a therapist, but it was taking, like, two months, and I needed help, like, then. So I went to, like, my school counselor and then told her about it. And then I was kind of, like, you know, taken to therapy. parents. Okay. And then that didn't really make my mom happy or my dad. Yeah. Why were they upset?

I guess they just didn't want the school to know and they didn't want things to escalate. Which I understand because... Can you explain it to us? Like, I feel like I should have waited two months for my appointment that my mom assigned me up for instead of going to the therapist, I mean, going to the school counselor the day after, and then telling her that I was feeling really upset and slightly suicidal and stuff. It's just like, wait, sorry guys, I shouldn't talk about suicide. so casually, but like... I mean, hey, you do you.

This is your time, any... There you go. Would you be burdening people if you talked about suicide? What will people think? How will you affect others? I know some people can get very triggered when suicide is talked about casually. Like, I was kind of like that

when I was feeling suicidal. Can you help us understand that? Well, it was more so that when I was feeling, when I was very depressed and suicidal, I would joke about it a lot. But then when other people did it, it made me a bit upset. So hypocritable on me, but like, yeah. So it looks like you just took a quick chance to beat yourself off there. I did? Yeah.

Did you not... What did I do? You called yourself a hypocrite. Oh, wait, but like, that was hypocritical, kind of. Sure. I don't doubt that you have a good reason for feeling that way or believing that. But I just still want to point out that you did it. Right?

Because when we beat ourselves up, like, we don't have bad reasons. It's like, when I look at myself in the mirror, I'm not like, oh, my God, why don't you have gills and flippers. Look at how human, like, we pick things that make sense. Oh, like fish. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Sorry. No, sorry. Yeah. Okay. So, hmm. Can we actually go back to seventh and eighth grade for a second? Sure.

So, uh, when did this stuff? So you started to feel what around that time, like end of middle school? So, like, I was in a lot of middle school drama with, like, friends during that time. So not like theater? No, no. No, like, like, you know, fighting with friends and getting backstabbed and, you know, stuff like that. What do you mean getting backstabbed and stuff like that? Can you?

Oh, I don't want to get it to the middle school drama. Why not? You don't have to, but I'm just curious. Why not? Oh, I just, I feel like I should be over it kind of, yeah. Okay, should be over it. Okay, so. Can I just get another sick?

Yes. You can hydrate as often as you want to. Hydrate yourself. So if someone says I should be over it, are they over it? No, no. Right? And so you got to be careful, many, because I hear that also that self-judgment there, that like, you're not over it. And then we're not going to talk about it because you should be over it.

Yeah. Right? So it's like, if I'm bleeding, and it's like, oh, my God, I shouldn't be bleeding. And then I'm like, do you want a bandage? And you're like, no, no. No, no, no, I shouldn't be bleeding. So I don't want the... It's like, what?

And then, like, how do you feel about telling us? You don't have to, but, you know, I think it's like... I think it's important that I do, though. And I want to, but like... Yeah. But what? But the self-judgment part of me is like, no. Okay, good.

So now we're going to pause for a second. And before we get into it. So, Mindy, I want you to pay attention to what you're about to do because it's about to be awesome. Okay. So you are judging yourself. And that voice inside of you is saying, you shouldn't say this. Right? It's like, how dare you?

You should be over it. It's beating you up. And then you are about to not listen to that voice. So remember that there are two ways to deal with self-esteem for lack of a better term. Or for just one conception. Right. or one kind of structure to think about. One is that we make the self-esteem, the self-hateful thoughts decrease so that we don't have them as often.

The second thing that we can do is not listen to them. Don't let them dictate our life. Right? So there's a difference between that beast existing and that beast controlling you. And so what I think is actually really cool is that if you, you know, do tell us the story. Now I feel like you can't not tell us because then. Oh, no. you really you don't you don't have to but I just want to illustrate a point but like you know because

you don't want to you're like I shouldn't I should be over it like it's dumb but then you say like I want to so like there it's that same part of that you talk talk to us about where there's like you know you know the the part of you that says oh thank you very much and then but I'm still a terror you know they're like it's that war between the two parts of you so you know if you share that story with us what you're doing is actually like learning how to like not listen to that part. It's going to keep speaking for a while and we'll get to that. But does that make sense?

Yeah. You were acting in spite of your low self-esteem and your self-judgment, which I think is a really important skill to have. So what happened in middle school? I could use a dose of, you know, decent 12-year-old drama. Yes. It's Friday afternoon. You know? Yeah, so.

Hmm. Sorry, I'm just going to think. for like it. Okay, I'll think, I'll talk about the one that affected me the most. Um, so I had, I had two friends. Um, we'll call one A and then we'll call one B. Um, so A and I started, A and I were really good friends in middle school. Um, but

she was starting like seventh eighth grade she started getting very depressed for her own reasons and I really wanted to help her not be depressed

because you know it made me sad that she was sad I think honestly in retrospect I did it more out of like me not wanting to feel sad around her rather than me wanting to help her. Okay. But so I tried to help her, you know, be there for her, hear her when she, like,

ranted about stuff. But then, like, you know, I didn't understand that she needed a therapist back then. So, so the summer before high school started. she tried to like attend suicide um and it was kind of traumatic for me because for like three days I couldn't reach her like through phone or anything and uh the last thing she said was like I love you so I was like what's going on and then I even went to her house and then only after three days like she texted me saying that she was at the hospital and I couldn't really go see her because like both our parents were like both her parents and mine were like let's not like you know so uh so she did that but she was she did not you know she only attempted but she was still alive and stuff uh so there was that you know dealing with her.

This doesn't sound like middle school drama to me. Oh, this is the less middle school drama. This is like actual, like, scary events. Yeah, I was like this. I was like, I'm not, I'm a little bit terrified how this is going to transform into like middle school drama because we haven't heard anything about B. It's like, is B going to start trashing people?

You came for the, like, you came for the B's when you left with it. back. Okay. You came for the what? Oh, nothing. Okay. Yeah, so there was that. And then

entirety of freshman year was just like us being depressed together. And then at the end of freshman year she moved schools without like telling me. And then like I also moved schools.

because I didn't really want to be in that school. So that's the first A friend. Then B friend, um, B friend, I was friends with her in middle school as well. And then this was like seventh to eighth grade. She started liking me.

But then, um, so a little background. I grew up like, very Christian all the way up until like eighth grade and I didn't really learn about

like sexual identity all the way until like seventh grade of middle school because no one taught me about it so she started liking me and then and then like

we used to exchange letters like even though we saw each other every day and I thought it was like a friend thing but like clearly it was not and then made it clear that it wasn't well I mean like I don't think friends really exchange like two to three pages of letter every day

but I guess I thought that so one day sounds like actually a pretty cool friendship Yeah. You know, if there was a friendship like that. But anyway, I don't mean to derail you. Sorry. Yeah, I kind of miss her.

But like, so there's that. Just a little bit. Just a little. And then she liked me. So one day she gave me like a love letter. And then I checked it when I got home. and I was smiling a lot when I read it for some reason but then like I told my mom about it

and because my mom and I are pretty close or like back then we were still I mean yeah we were close but then she was like I don't know she had this weird reaction where she was like, oh, you know, like, it's probably just as a friend or something. And she told me that, like, she like, she liked girls when she was young too, but it was just, like, confusion. And she, like, she basically told me, like, you're probably a bit confused, and so is she.

And I was like, and then she told me that I shouldn't, like, stay friends with people like that because they'll confuse me more. so I was like really confused. It's a common state for middle schoolers. Yes. Confused and scared. But and then so I got the letter and then I had the exchange with my mom. And then I had this weird like and then I started like realizing I'm seeing. this girl the same way as I see a dude.

So then I got really scared for some reason. I still don't know why. So I got really scared. And then I did the worst thing possible. And I just started avoiding her in true middle school fashion. So we avoided each. I avoided her. And then she tried to confront me once, but then I, like, ran away, like, quite literally.

So we stopped being friends. But then, like, a few other people started thinking I was homophobic. So I was like, oh, no. And I tried to tell them I wasn't, but, like, you know, they kind of didn't want to hear me. So that happened. And then this was an A-free. And then I got really depressed after Sunny, after A tried to commit, like, to decide. And then, uh, I got really depressed and I really missed B, like, I really missed B friend.

So I wanted to like talk to her again, right? So I started, like, messaging her and then talking to her again before high school started without having ever apologized to her. And, like, that was, like, my first mistake. And then, and this is where things get, like, kind of shitty and, like, yeah. Okay. But. How's your nervousness, by the way? Right now, like, up the roof and gone.

Up the roof. Like, through the roof and gone. Okay. Keep going. So you said then things get really bad. Okay. So then I'm by really bad. I just mean, like, now I make a lot of actual shitty mistakes.

And then I realized in my freshman year of high school that I liked her a lot, like, in a non-straight way. So I was really confused about that. And then she, but at the time when I realized I liked her, she had a girlfriend. So I knew about them. and I like supported them too. I like, you know, like this one time B told me to like

B asked me if like I could get chocolates for her girlfriend and then she would pay me back so I agreed to that like stuff like that. So then I started liking her and then

I really wanted to tell her because like things were getting a bit like too hard for me to handle. What was getting hard for you to handle? Like I felt like I had to tell her because it was getting in the way of like me functioning normally around her. So. Sounds like you were in love. Maybe I was.

Yeah, but then, like, she had a girlfriend, so you're not really supposed to do that. But like, I did. You're not supposed to do what? Like, fall in love with people who are in relationships? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So then I told her about it, but I told her that I wasn't trying to do anything.

I just wanted to, like, her to acknowledge it and then tell me, like, it can't happen and tell me to move on, which is what she told me. So then I was like, okay. So you did share with her and she said, I'm sorry, I'm with someone. I want you to move on. Yeah. Okay. And then I was like, okay, now we can be friends again.

But like, I found this out way later. But she told me, I mean, no, no, no. She, when I told her about it, she told her girlfriend. And then they had a fight and broke up. So, so then B started ignoring me. And then that got me really anxious. Because, like, yeah. And then, so after her ignoring me,

for two weeks. Like, I confronted her about it. I was like, hey, like, could you just like, please talk to me? I'm sorry if I did something wrong because I didn't know she told her girlfriend that they, yeah. So, uh, so I confronted her. And this was in the middle school lunch cafeteria. We were in the middle school. Yeah.

Well, we were there for a class. but like we were there right and people are relatively quiet so it was just me and her talking because we had a son that day and like I remember I was asking her hey what did I do wrong

like could you please tell me and stuff like that and then she told me that she told me that she told me that she never really liked me from the beginning and that

and that she was tired of hearing me talk about being depressed all the time and that I was making people around me like tired and stuff

so that was like our last conversation before freshman year ended and then and then I moved Yeah And then We actually did talk though

On like the phone and stuff After that Like two years later But it was just like I don't really remember how it went But we did talk but we don't really talk We haven't talked at all For three years, four years

five years yeah okay so if I'm doing mental math then you're in your early 20s ballpark I'm mom I'm in a class class I'm 18

yeah I'm in college I'm in my I'm in my freshman year of college okay hence why I'm talking about middle school drop but yeah so Okay. Yeah, that's it.

What are you studying? I'm in this program where I choose my major two years later. So I'm just studying, like, philosophy and stuff right now in the meantime. Just your basics? Yeah, basic stuff. Yeah, okay. Hmm. I'm thinking.

Is that cool? Yeah, no, go, yeah. Can we just check in? Like, how you seem, even though you say your anxieties through the roof, I get the sense that you're actually, like, more relaxed. I am. Yeah, my heart is like not beating a lot anymore, so that's really good. Okay. How does it feel? So you remember there was that part of you that didn't want you to speak? And how does that part feel right now?

It's not saying anything right now, but I feel like, yeah, but I feel like later on I'll probably think why'd I do that or something. Yep. Yeah. So I think that's also an important point that I, I want to make is that the parts of us, so if we think about anxiety, right, anxiety like is a fear of the future. It's afraid of what's going to happen. And then oftentimes if we can actually like overcome that hump, the actual reality is not what we pictured. And our brain is designed to imagine bad things to keep us from doing catastrophic, make catastrophic mistakes. So it makes the things that we imagine in the future actually be amplified, which is like evolutionary. It's not, you know, if I run across a snake in the wilderness and my brain is like, well, chances are if I get bit, it'll hurt a lot and I'll be like out. Like we think about death.

Like our brain teaches us to fear death and we take dangers and then we actually amplify them, which is what it's supposed to do. But I want you to just notice that because many, I think a lot of times going forward if you want to move past. your, that voice in your head. All you've got to do is like get over the hump, but I know it's going to come back. It's definitely going to come back. But I just kind of wanted to point that out. So, yeah.

So, I mean, did other stuff continue to happen in high school? Are there other things that sort of affected your self-esteem? High school was, like, mentally I was worse than I was in middle school. but like nothing was actually like going on if that makes sense. Yeah, what do you mean by mentally you were worse? Like I wasn't like sometimes I just couldn't go to school even after I moved out of the old one. Like I was crying a lot.

Then I wanted to isolate myself a lot and like, you know, my grades went. down a lot in freshman year. So sophomore, junior, and senior was just me trying to get them up because my parents wanted them up. So. And what did your parent? Yeah. Oh, yeah, but like besides that, like it was just me in my head rethinking

that things from middle school and freshman year of high school over and over again. So you were, you were replaying that stuff. Yeah. A lot. Okay. Okay, Mandy.

Can I share some thoughts with you? Sure. So first of all, good job today. Just a reminder that this is not therapy, right? Yeah, of course. We're just talking about your past. Yeah. I'm glad you do have

like a treatment team. Right. So a lot of times what we explore with people is where the origins of their beliefs about themselves come from. So the first thing to understand, I know this sounds kind of weird, but like, you know, when we were talking earlier about reassurance and like you feel basically like you're not a good person and that you burden people and that like your hurt like trickles out,

like almost like secondhand smoke and then like pollutes like people's lives around. you, right? Like your presence is like, you know, it's like you're peeing in the swimming pool and everyone else is in the swimming pool and then like there's, oh no. Oh, no. Yeah. So that's what I'm getting from you is that you really feel like a burden. You feel like you're not a good person. You feel like you mess up other people's lives by your presence. And so what most people do is they would reassure you, right? And they'd say like, no, Minnie, like you're an amazing person. like you're beautiful. You're a force for positivity.

Why'd you say that in the British accent? Or some accent. Because I'm trying to poke fun at it. But, you know, people will say, oh, you know, you're an amazing person. I do think you are an amazing person. Actually, I'm really optimistic for you. Thank you. And I'll get to why.

But I think the first thing that we've got to do is that you're not dumb, unfortunately. You are quite smart. And so the smarter you are, if you have a belief, like this is the problem is that when we try to, when we see someone who's struggling with a belief, we tell them they're wrong because that's not what we see. Right. And so like, but that's, it's kind of silly because you're not dumb. Like that belief comes from somewhere. I think actually you're justified in believing that you were a burden to other people. I don't have, I just don't think that that's the whole story. So let's just take a step back and think about being a burden. So the first thing is that we do burden on other people. Like that's true. Right? So like if I'm having a bad day and like I'm moody, like that's going to affect my kids. Right. It's going to affect my wife. If my wife is having a bad day, if my kids are like you do affect the people around you. And sometimes you can affect the people around you in a negative way. Like that's not false.

I also think that I know this is going to sound crazy, but I do think that. you know, if you are sad and depressed, that it negatively affects the people around you. I don't, I know it's weird, so be careful here, because, I mean, I don't know how else to say it, but like when one person is depressed, like as a psychiatrist, I work with people who are depressed, it's really hard on their families. That's a fact. Now, even though that's true, we have to ask another question, which is equally important. I think this is a question you need to ask yourself. Is it okay to do that? I don't feel like, no.

Like I feel like, even though I know objectively that they're my family because they are there to support me through hard times, like on the inside. Like I really feel like I shouldn't. Yep. So I get that, right? and see we said you're smart because you know what the right answer is and you're like I disagree with the right answer which is entirely acceptable that is where I think you frankly we you know we need to work on your beliefs about what the world is and what human beings deserve from one another because I do think that's okay because I think that's how life works like I think it's I just don't see how else you know when I'm having a bad day I'm going to burden the people around me. And when other people are having a bad day, they're going to burden me.

That, you know, life is a multiplayer game. It's not a single player game. And that on any given day, one of us is screwing up. Now, this is where you say, like, okay, fine, even that's true. The problem is that I screw up more than everyone else. Right. Wait, I'm like scared because you just thought of what I was thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's what we do here. Right? So like you say like, In theory, fine. You know, I get to burden my parents. Sometimes my parents get to burden me, but it's me burdening them all the fucking time.

So it's not fair, and that makes it not okay. Because if it was even, fine. Okay? So this is why I think it's great that you're 18. Because you're just getting started. There are going to be a lot of people that get to burden you down the road. And my hope is that actually as you continue to grow, like, and just put more years under your belt,

you'll begin to see, and I hope that you're able to see. now we have to be tricky because this is where cognitive bias comes in, because you may not be able to appreciate because you're so stuck in your own head that other people lean on you too. So I'd give it a couple of years, but we'll get to that eventually maybe. Yep, yeah. So I think that you're going to be, honestly, many, and this may hurt you here, and hopefully I can repair this damage a little bit.

I think you're going to be a burden on people for a couple more years because I think that's what children are. Like, I don't know how to say this. Huh? But I'm 18. Yeah, I still think of y'all as kids. And that's not, it's, I don't try to be condescending. Yeah.

But, like, I know, I mean, I fucking wasn't anywhere near an adult when I was 18. I, I earned my first real paycheck at the age of 32. Like, you know, I, I just, I was a late bloomer. Like, literally, 14 years is like, 14 years. later is when I started becoming a self, like, sufficient adult where I could pay my own bills and stuff like that. And it's just, it just takes time, right? So like, we don't, we don't actually consider 18, I mean, we consider 18 year olds adults,

but if in the U.S., you're not even allowed to drink, right? You're still actually in education. You're just starting your final base of education potentially. And so, so I think it's just, you know, you're. you're not going to be like as productive. Like you'll be a far more productive member of society at 30 than you are at 18. That's just a fact. Doesn't mean that 18 year olds can't be productive adults.

I'm not saying that. But I'm just like, give yourself a little bit of time. The next thing is that we've got to think a little bit about like where your belief that you're a burden comes from. And this is what I love about your story is because we actually already have the answer. Usually I have to dig around with people. But when did you start believing? that you were a burden to the people around you? Like, when I started getting depressed, which was eighth grade, yeah.

I don't even think that's it. So I think it really comes from when the woman that you were in love with told you that you're a burden to other people and that you ruined their lives. I don't know if it was love. Okay, sure. Sure as hell sounds like it from my perspective. And maybe it wasn't. I'm in a relationship right now.

Okay, sorry. No, it's okay. I mean, it sounds like a fucking rom-com, mini. It's a story out of a rom-com. I'm not trying to, you know, mess up your life, but... Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, like, it sounds like you guys had a real connection. Whether it's like, you know, whether it's like friendship love or romantic love or something in between,

it sounds like you guys genuinely cared for each other in a very deep way. Yeah. You know, I mean, even if there wasn't romantic love or it really wasn't romantic love, like, whatever, there's clearly like some, I mean, like you said, it's not common for seventh or eighth graders to write each other two to three page letters on a daily basis. Yeah. I don't know what you call that. I would just call it a deep connection of which I think the word love approximates the. best. And, and if we think about it, like, you know, what does it do to someone when they care about someone so much when someone is so important to them and to hear those kinds of words

from her? Like, what did it feel like when she said that? Like, it's an exaggeration, but also not really. But my, like, my physical chest area hurt when I heard that. Like, started crying and then like felt like my heart was like breaking and stuff literally yeah yeah right so

and I hate to say this many you've been a little bit broken ever since and and because that's the thing is like like when you say you should have gotten over it like you haven't gotten over it and like no wonder you feel like a burden because you know it sounds like in some ways And so you're downplaying things. So I'm going to amplify things.

And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. So like probably one of the most important people in the world to you, or maybe the most important person in the world to you, tells you that you're a burden and you ruin the lives of people around you. And then you said that your heart was breaking literally. Okay. So like, like if we think about it, you know, where are a lot of these thoughts coming from? It's like because she told you that, right?

Like you learned that lesson about yourself. And it dug, it like sunk in really deep. And then you sort of had this belief. And it sounds like it may have started before that, even like when you started to get depressed and stuff. But if I were to say, you know, it's kind of like maybe there were some cracks, but like that was the shattering. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

And so if we think about it, you know, if you really want to heal, like it has to be. through that experience. And there are even signs, like, more from like a psychological or even neuroscientific perspective, that that was the seminal event. And the reason that I say that is because you remembered that there was a substitute teacher that day. So if we look at memory, memory is tied to importance. Right?

People like, what do you remember? Like, do you remember what you had for lunch on? October 28th, 2014? No. Of course not, right? It's completely unimportant. But people remember where they were during 9-11. You remember you were in the cafeteria for a class with a substitute teacher.

And so like what that tells me is that moment in time sunk deep into your mind. Like it's frozen. It's like a perfect picture. and even like when you think about it the picture in your mind is so vivid that even thinking about it brings up emotions brings up thoughts

it's like this whole whirlwind of stuff and so now what that is is like it's sitting in your unconscious or subconscious mind and it's generating the energy of that moment is generating these thoughts it's like a projector that's like putting stuff up into your mind

and like the projector is over here but what you see is over here over here. And this is where you are right now, but you don't realize that it's all coming from like this experience. Right? Because that's like, like, it's interesting because even the language that we

talked about before hearing her words are like almost identical to her words. Right? The way that you think about yourself is a burden, is polluting the people around you. Everything you touch turns to ash.

You're like a plague. right? Yeah. And so now the question, with me, questions, thoughts, comments. Can I go to the bathroom? Yeah, yeah, go, go. Sorry. How dare you?

Oh, my God, how dare I go to the bathroom? I know. I'll be back. She's learning, chat. She's learning how to troll us back. Welcome back, Minnie. Hi. How you feeling?

You know, like, less nervous. Definitely. Okay. Yeah, so let me just offer you a couple of directions. Okay. So one is, you know, we can talk a little bit more about the somska or like this ball of undigested emotion that I think generates these negative thoughts. we can also just talk a little bit about, you know, some of the other thoughts that you have. We can talk some about your parents or kind of how you feel day to day.

What would you like to do? I guess I could talk about my day-to-day. Yeah, can you tell us about that? So when I started therapy in like ninth grade, I was a mess. Like grades were down. Couldn't get out of bed, not going to school, isolating, all that stuff. And so like day to day back then was like terrible, right? But then I did therapy.

And I moved schools and everything. And then I realized I was definitely getting better, like going to school again. Grades are better or like, you know. But then, like, oh, and then the panic attacks got less. Now I only have it like maybe once. every two months but I realized recently

that when something bad happens I like go straight back to when I was in ninth grade in freshman year like

I'm back to not getting out of bed and like feeling like I'll never get better and stuff like that yeah what kind of thoughts Oh, yeah. So it's just...

Oh, go ahead, go ahead. So it's just like a constant cycle of like better and then not, then better and not. Yeah. How does it feel to be getting better and worse all the time? Yo-yoing. Exhausting. I can imagine.

Exhausting and, uh, kind of of like, the burden thing again, where I feel like I wish I could be this perfect friend or daughter to, like, and be stable, but I'm not. So, yeah. I can imagine that you're okay accepting other people's help if you actually got better. Yeah. But it feels like a waste to you because you lose all that ground.

Are you a good daughter? No. I don't think so. Okay. Help us understand that. So when I was little, like, all the way until before middle school, I was really, I was really happy all the time, like, most of the time. I really enjoyed doing things like reading books or whatever

and stuff like that and I was really happy most of the time and I think my parents were glad that I was like that because I have a brother and he was really hard to deal with for a while all the way until he got into college Like me and my brother are kind of opposites.

So he's like I perceive myself as pretty social and I like feed off of socializing with people because it makes me happy. But like for my brother, he has a hard time socializing with people. And he's a bit, like, he's more the odd one out of the, our family. So my parents kind of, my parents kind of hate him. And, like, I, I learned that, like, if I don't want to be hated by my parents, I kind of have to be the opposite of him, even though I already was. So Sorry, I lost my trade of thought

That's cool, I'll pick it up Go ahead Why do your parents hate your brother? Really Like when we were little Like we're four years apart So like when I was in When I was six and he was like 10

They would fight a lot They fought all the way until he was at the end of his high school years. They always thought about like grades or like, you have thought about him being bullied? Being, I don't know what. Yeah, when he was in like, when he was in elementary school,

like he used to get bullied by his classmates. It's a part of why we moved from Korea to here. but so yeah they used to fight a lot and then whenever they thought I would like I'd like hide under the dining room table and it just like close my ears and then

and then I learned to hate him my brother for a long time because sometimes like fights would get violent and then sometimes I would try to stop them

but I was like six you know so yeah or like 12 or I don't know all the ages so like I learned to hate him because I saw that my

parents were hating him and that I kind of just hated him because he was really we didn't talk a lot either but whenever we did I always felt like I always felt like he was the one causing troubles for family. But then, like, but then I became depressed in eighth grade.

And then I started becoming the troublemaker of the family. So then my parents were like, what the fuck? You're supposed to be the good one. What did they say to you? Like my parents? Mm-hmm. I mean, they said a lot of things. But sometimes they're like really supportive and stuff.

But sometimes when we would fight when I was depressed, like they would say stuff like, like why aren't you getting any better or like, or like, I don't know. Like you're weighing our family business down because my parents do business. and they were telling me that because I was depressed like they were depressed so they couldn't do work or something

and that like Oh so they told you you were a burden Oh yeah Yeah yeah they did Oh Oh how wonderful Um Um

I'm sure uh class um Yeah but at the same time Like, like, they did say some really mean things, but I feel like it was out of like, like, they had reasons for it. Yep. Yeah.

They are bad people. I really love them. I don't think they're bad people. They were just tired, too. And they didn't understand why I wasn't getting along with my brother either. Because whenever we talked, we would fight. So. And what's your understanding?

What's your understanding of why y'all would fight so much? He's done a lot of mean things to me also, but like to my parents as well. And then whenever we would go, like whenever we would go somewhere as a family, he would be troublesome socially. So I kind of had to cover for him. What does that mean troublesome socially? like so let's say my family was having a dinner with like a family friend right so we'd be eating and talking then my brother would like not really get the social cues and talk about whatever

he wanted to do or like or just do just little things that would be like ha to the guest but for us we were like, stop that. So I would try to like cover. Afraid of him embarrassing you. Yeah, we were. We were. And I was making the family look bad. Yeah, we were.

And then I was also scared that, I don't know. Yeah, I was also scared that like they would look down on my brother. because, like, there were incidents where he actually escalated into a fight with, like, other people outside of her family. That's when I was like, no, he can't do that. So it's just like, you know, but he, like, mellowed down in high school. He's still a prick, but, like, we don't fight a lot. anymore. I actually had like a semi heart to heart with him in like a few months ago. And I was just trying to understand that like he was really, like he told me he was really depressed in middle school and like when he

he was younger and he was dealing with a lot too. So I like, I remember asking my parents to get him therapy when we were in high school. Yeah. Sorry, that was tangent. It's a beautiful one. I'm going to just try to take this in. Yes. Go ahead.

What do you talk about in therapy? The same thing I talked about here. And then a little bit more about, like, other stuff, but, you know, basically. But your therapists know that first. example, like you had this, when you grew up, like you would hide under a table and cover your ears when your parents were in a fight with your brother? Yeah. And what are your therapy?

How does that conversation go in therapy? It depended on who it was, but like all six therapists, like, let's say there's an hour in a session, right? It's usually like 40 minutes of me talking and then 20 minutes of them talking or less. So it was just me talking a lot And then giving advice like breathe or something Which is good But

What do you want to hear? What's wrong with me? Because I always hear people reassure me That there's nothing wrong with me But like Clearly What makes it clear that something's wrong with you? Can you hear me?

Hi So you want to hear what's wrong with you and they won't tell you. Sorry, what I said? And they won't tell you what's wrong with you. Yeah. Okay. Well, except for my friend.

And what did she say? She tells me that I'm self-sabotaging a lot. What does that mean? Which, like, telling myself that I'm not good enough for, like, I'm burning people and stuff like that. And I hear her. but I don't know what to do with it. Okay.

Sorry, I had a message from someone. Okay. And then do you, if you could change something, if I could wave a magic wand and change something about your life, what would you change? I want my, this is going to sound real bad, but I would want my brother. Okay.

How does it feel to say that? I feel really evil. Mm-hmm. And why do you want him gone? Like, I don't know, I often think about what it would have been like if I was, like, only child. And what do you envision if you were an only child? Like, less pain from what he does. Do you sometimes wonder if you would be normal if he would.

wasn't around. Yeah. And I know, I know that's not true because... How do you know that's not true? Because like, he's not like that anymore or a lot less like that. And my life still kind of, you know, so... Hmm. Minnie, this is going to be tricky. Did I do something wrong? Nope. Not at all. All right. It's just... testing, you're the raid boss. People joke about, you know, you've heard this meme before in our channel. People are like, oh my God, this person's going to be the raid boss. And no.

No one expected it to be you. But let's, let's, I know. How does it feel to be the raid boss? I'm sorry, guys. What are you sorry for? For being a raid boss. Whose fault is that? I'm not sure.

Sure you are. My, my, my. Do you see the cycle? It keeps going. What's the cycle pointed out to me? Uh, so like, it's like, there's a problem. I blame myself. Uh, but then, like, someone tells me I'm not.

I kind of believe it, but then there's a problem again. I blame myself. Yeah. Very good. Right? And so I know this is going to sound weird, but where can we break that cycle? There's a problem. I blame myself. People tell me it's not my fault. I sort of believe it. There's a problem. Where do we break that cycle? The blaming part? Nope. That's what you would think. That's what you would think. What do you want? When I asked you what you wanted, what's your answer, Minnie? Do you remember what you said? What do you want from therapy? To To be for

less self-douding? No, no, no, no. See, these are all the bullshit answers. Okay. The real answer was you want your therapist to tell you what's wrong with you. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I forgot.

So the real problem with the cycle is not there's a problem, and I blame myself, because that shit's going to happen. You're going to blame yourself. Right. We can't stop that. what we need to change is the reassurance what we need to do is tell you what's wrong with you

that's what you want and that's what we need to do because that's what they don't do right and then the problem is that like when they reassure you it covers up the problem but it doesn't actually solve anything and so the cycle continues right and so actually what we need it and the reason you're the raid boss is because

I'm going to have to tell you why you're the problem. Okay. Because it's what you want, so that's what you've got to hear. But before we do that, before we do that, how do you feel? Do you feel anxious when I say things like that? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God.

And what are you afraid I'm going to say? Ah, you suck or something. Yeah, I don't think you suck. I think you're awesome. Okay. But I do think it's really challenging, right? Because if we don't, if we don't accept responsibility for our situation, we also have no power to change it.

It's like a really tricky double-edged sword. And I think in a bizarre way, the reason that you aren't changing is because people sort of take that away from you. And it's actually what you want. You want to hear like why you're the problem. And I think we'll get there in a second. But I don't think it's going to be what you think it is.

But it is actually going to be a problem. So it's just going to be hard. That's what's tricky. So let me start with this. When your friend told you what she said that day in the cafeteria, where were those words coming from? Like what she says, you're a burden and you make everyone else's life around you worse.

Right. Where are those words coming from within her? From the things I did? Not really. Sort of, right? So, like, if we think about, like, let me ask you this. Was she, like, of calm and tranquil mind when she was explaining this to you?

No. Where, what was she feeling in that moment? anger. Yep. And so like the words were coming from a place of hurt. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so this is important to understand because like even though hurtful words can be true, they're incomplete.

Right. And this is the problem with like hearing what's wrong with you, a mini, is that I'll tell you what's wrong with you. But what I need you to understand is that it's incomplete. Because that's true. Right. Like, I mean, come on. Like, let's just think about what you've said, okay? And then let's think about how reasonable some of your conclusions are.

If you find yourself thinking, I wish my brother had never existed. And then you're like, I'm kind of an evil person. And then what are we supposed to say, no, you're not? Right? So the problem here, Minnie, is not that you're wrong. The problem is that you're right. the bigger problem is that it's incomplete because what I want you to understand is that in the same way

like do you believe like what do you think that friend what do you think B thinks about you as a complete person she used to tell me that I was really like I made her happy yeah and that I was really fun to be around yeah right so that makes sense to me

it makes sense to me that you caused her a lot of pain and you brought her a lot of happiness. The problem is that in the moments, in the screenshots that your mind took, it like, you know, took way more or way bigger screenshots of the negative moments in your life as opposed to the positive moments. And that's not your fault. That's literally the way that our brain is wired. So our brain, if you go to a restaurant and you eat there 10 times

and it's really, really yummy, you remember those 10 times pretty well. If you go there the 11th time and you get food poisoning, what does your brain remember about the restaurant? I had food poisoning. Okay. At that restaurant.

Yeah, exactly, right? So that's what's happened in your life. And if we really look at it, it's not that it's false that you had a bad experience at the restaurant. It's not wrong to believe that. It's just incomplete. And so in the same,

way that your friends can you sort of understand and let me know like if you rebel against this internally because I can kind of read your mind but I can't read this next part okay so I need so if I were to tell you that your friend what she said about you wasn't untrue but at that that it came from a place of like hurt and was incomplete what do you think about that I I agree. Okay. So then what you have to do, this is the hard part. Is that, like, I can imagine if you're a six-year-old and it sounds like there's an argument and maybe even like a physical altercation between your parents and your brother.

And you're six years old and you just want to play with, what did you play with when you were six years old? Like a Nintendo. Okay. So you're just playing Nintendo. and then that's what I played when I was 60. And, you know, you're just sitting there playing your Nintendo and this like altercation breaks out and then like they're yelling and then you have to like,

like that child is like afraid. And then the child runs under a table and covers their ears. And what do they, when a child covers their ears, what do they want? What are they thinking in their head? They wanted to stop. Absolutely. I just want.

to stop. And if you're a six-year-old and you want it to stop, what do you see is the problem? Well, in my case, like, my brother. Absolutely, right? It's a six-year-old's thought. Like, the six-year-old doesn't... It's just like, I just want it to stop. I want him to go away. Because you're not dumb. And when he comes... Like, when you're... If you stay at home from school and he's not around, you get to play on your Nintendo. And when he shows up...

your parents and him get into it. And then your parents, their parents, and you sort of get that like, even as a six-year-old, you're like, my parents know what's up. Right? Like, that's how we think. Like, we think that our parents, like,

know what's going on. And so then your parents hate him, and they say certain things to him. And then you just know that when he's around, like, it's a mess. And so you just want him to go away. You want him to never exist. It's the thought of a six-year-old,

completely apprously. Does it make you an evil person? I don't think so. Isn't an evil thought? Absolutely. And this is where I think the real problem many that you run into is that I think that the bad thoughts that you have about yourself are actually true. It's just just because you have an evil thought, even if you really want it and even if you really believe it on some level, doesn't make you an evil person. That's the jump that you need to stop making.

because I have an evil thought, I am an evil person. Because I burden people around me, I am a burden. Do you see the difference in those two statements? One is like an identity. And then the problem is once you make that identity, you carry it with you wherever you go. And then you get into cognitive bias. But if you have like bad thoughts, is it an asshole thought to like wish that your brother didn't exist? Sure.

And here's the crazy thing. I think it's okay for you to have that thought. Because I think that that thought comes from a place of just wanting it to end. And when you're six years old, the world is not a complicated place. It's just like a, because six-year-olds have like magical thinking. And they're like, if I waved a magic wand and made my brother go away, imagine how simpler my life would be. And then each time you have that thought, each time you guys go to some friend's house and I'm assuming they're Korean. and you guys go to some, like, you know, because it's like social shit, right?

Yeah. And then like in the Korean community, you guys are viewed as like rejects because you've got this brother who gets into fights with people when you guys go to dinner. And there's a lot of family shame because that's what we do in East Asia and South Asia. And all over the rest of the world too. But I think it seems to be more powerful nowadays. It lingers better in these cultures where it's about community and family over individuals. There's a whole different system of worth. Your worth as a human being is not based on who you are.

It's based on your family. Thoughts, responses, questions. Okay. So what's wrong with you? I think that a lot of the things that you think about yourself happen to be true. So some of them I don't think are true, but I think that you do burden people around you. I do think that it's an evil thought to wish that you. your brother never existed. I think actually what's wrong with you is that you define your identity

based on those thoughts. But they're just thoughts. Like I had a thought about a unicorn. It doesn't make the unicorn real, right? It's just a thought. Our mind just thinks all kinds of weird stuff. And I think it's okay for you to like acknowledge that you're a burden. But I also think you need to like really think about, you know, when people say that you're a burden, to understand that, like, that's coming from, like, a dark place inside them. And, like, we can't let the dark places in each of us define what the world is. Because if your friend thinks you're a burden and you think you're a burden, then, like, that's a bleak pace. But you're more than a burden, right? You're someone who brought her happiness and you're someone who brought her joy and you're someone who, like, you know, taught her

what love is if we want to get corny. And, and, you know, I know you're in a relationship now, so sorry about that. You know, I can't help myself for the memes. I do it for the memes. But, but I mean, seriously, like, I think that the problem in here is that what's wrong with you is that you don't see that you're more than your worst parts. That's the real problem. I don't dispute that you have bad parts. I just don't think that that's all of you.

right and the other thing is that I forgive you for having the bad parts of you that you do because I think it's understandable like what do you expect what do you expect a six-year-old to want to do when they have a brother who comes home and fights with their parents all the time right and if your parents start hating him you're just going to learn so it's like is it wrong to hate him yes do you hate him yes is that bad yes does it make you a bad No. Right? Like, in fact, many, what I think is actually really amazing is that you recognize, like, there's a part of you that fights against all these thoughts and feelings.

Right. There's a part of you that makes you, like the reason that having the thought is fine. What would really make you evil is if you didn't think you were evil for having the thought. Right? That's what makes you good. It's like the fact that you feel guilty is like what makes you a good person. and then in terms of being a burden, like, I think that's going to get better. And I think that, frankly, your parents sort of made some potential mistakes here.

Now, I'm not trying to bash your parents. I know that you haven't painted a really rosy picture of them, but I think let's all be clear and fair that I think your parents seem like actually really good people. It seems like they did the best that they could. You know, they grew up in a particular culture where like there's a lot of shame around mental health. And like, that's just what they grew up with. So, like, let's not blame them for it. That's the whole thing. It's like, are we going to blame people for, like, what they grew up with?

And if you're going to forgive your parents for what they grew up with and you're going to be understanding for them, you should be understanding for yourself. Now, be careful because I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying you need to be more understanding to yourself, right? You get a pass is what I'm saying. You have an excuse. It doesn't count. How do you feel about that?

I'm unsure I'll take it Like I hear what you're saying And I agree Give me the bow But like But the little

The little Mini me inside of me It's like but is that pass okay Or something Yep So that's the question that I think you should answer Right Is do you

So who determines whether the pass is okay Yeah. So that's your choice to make. And I hope that you conclude that it is okay. I hope that you can learn how to forgive yourself for the person that you are. And I hope that you can forgive B for hurting you. And I hope that you can forgive your brother for all the disharmony he has caused. Right? Because that's his real problem is he's like, harmonious. And give yourself time, Minnie. And there may be like forgiveness for your parents too somewhere in there. But like you have to, if you're unsure,

like I'll take it. I think that's as far as we're going to get today. Like I don't, you know, you know, I think that I'm actually really happy with that because. I was going to say sorry, but then I realized,

no, not sorry. Okay, good. Walk us through that. Oh, because like when you said I think we're going to end with unsure I was like oh but I want to give a better definite answer so I'm sorry but then I realize like no that's what I'm here for absolutely right that's great you did it you gave the good answer even in the end so either either you're a really good scam artist and you figure that out but if that's actually what happened in your mind mini that's that's that's a actually what we want, right?

Is we want you to observe like, oh, it's your fault. No, it's like, like, it's actually perfect because what you're saying is that, yeah, I didn't do what I was supposed to do. I'm not transformed. And I don't need to apologize for that shit. That's exactly what I'm telling you. Like, that's like living exactly what I'm telling you is that own that you didn't get there all the way.

Own that you are a burden to people. Own that you do. do have evil thoughts. And also own that it sounds like you care and love about, you care and love your brother, that you really do care about him a lot, that you guys are rebuilding a relationship. Right. And like, that's exactly what I'm talking about. If you can stop yourself from saying, I'm sorry, that's perfect.

Because it's where you are. I'm like, that's totally cool. Oh, no, you didn't come all the way. Oh, my God. How dare you. Yeah. But that's absolutely right. How dare you?

Good. Keep daring, my friend. You know, keep daring to like not be what you think you should be and not be what the world wants you to be. And instead, keep daring to be who you are. Good and bad. Ficked up pieces and good pieces. Because I don't think you're perfect.

And that's what makes you perfect That's so corny Yeah yeah it's fucking corny Yeah Yeah and you call me out on it It's beautiful This is who you are What you can't just let me inspire the internet

You have to call me out on it, Minnie come on It's great Right So many the more You ready for more corny Okay The more we see of you Right like when you shine through a little

bit and you're like, that's so corny. Like, that's actually beautiful. Like, the more you shine through with, like, you know, calling me out on my bullshit and, like, the more you put yourself out there, the more that you let us see who you are, I think what we see is really beautiful. Like, really, it's amazing. You're awesome. Thank you. I'm just going to let you sit with that discomfort. We're going to watch you squirm. We're going to bring the anxiety right back to where we started at the beginning of the beginning. Oh, Lord. No. about the anxiety. How does it feel to be appreciated?

Feels weird. Yeah. What's weird about it? That I can, like, be imperfect, and people are still like, that's so cool or something. I mean, that's weird if you think about it. Yeah.

So that's what I want you to do. And I think it's great that you're willing to tolerate that discomfort because you've been, you've become comfortable with your low self-esteem. Yeah. You've become comfortable with beating yourself up and blaming yourself. And it can actually be like uncomfortable to start to love yourself and to start to accept other people's appreciation for who you are. Because it's like, eh. It's like, icky.

Why can't you just treat me like a piece of shit? At least I know what that feels like. Oh, don't call me out like that. Oh, no. Yeah. But no, I'm not going to, because I don't think you are. And if it makes you uncomfortable, tough luck. This is about helping you, not making you feel comfortable.

It's about helping you grow. Thoughts, questions? No. Wow, you're really cool. See, she's fucking... This is the Raid Boss. I'm telling you guys. She's using my own techniques against me.

This is like in the anime or video games. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. See, she's doing it. She knows she's doing it to me, chat. No one's done this before. I'm telling you, I told you all she was the Raid Boss. This is like, have you played those video games where there's a dark mirror,

and then you get an evil duplicate of yourself that you have to fight? Oh no That's you I just never thought that my evil doppelganger would be an 18 year old Korean girl with money ears on That's not what I envisioned The raid boss

This is not what I thought of it was like But well played mini Well played No but I mean it though Like you inspire a lot of people And that's why I came here So Yeah

Am I making you uncomfortable What's better, Dr. Kay? Is this uncomfortable for you? What the fuck? Okay, I'll concede the, you can take this round. All right. But I'll be, I'll, I'll have to come up with some new tricks so that you can't use them against me.

Can't do, can I think for a moment anymore? Because I did it. It's like, I thought we were, you know, I thought this is PVE, but you're turning in PVP. Next time I'll be good. But listen, I do appreciate, you know, you're, I, I was joking a little bit, but I, you know, I get what you're saying about me being inspiring and all that. And I appreciate that.

And I think the other thing, so now I'm going to swing back, so get ready, get ready for it. You're inspiring too, right? because like I can't do this on my own. And actually what's really inspiring about this is like the people who come on. And that's what makes this what it is. And it's your honesty and your authenticity and you're like willing to share the darkest parts of yourself that actually makes it inspiring. Thank you. She said thank you.

She just took it. Thank you. You guys see that? She learned. She's like adapting and growing and more. She can just accept it now. And she can just maybe accept the compliment and maybe feel better about herself, despite her discomfort. She's learning.

She's evolving. She is. But listen, Minnie, this has been fantastic. Do you want to learn about meditation or if we memed ourselves out of that space? Would I be taking too much time? Oh, there it is. You tell me. No, I won't.

I want to do it. Okay, okay. But if you want to, you're allowed to say no, but you're not allowed to say no because it takes too much time. No, I do want to work. Okay. Okay. So now I got to, now I'm, okay, I got to think about this.

Have some water. What are we going to teach many? Okay. So I want you to sit up straight. Okay. And then I want you to put your hands together in front of your chest. like this. And I want your elbows to be at like right angles to the ground. So I want your arms to be straight. Yeah. So you should feel like tension. Like at the base of your wrists. Right? So you just

feel that tension for a second. And now what I want you to do, you can relax your elbows a little bit. And then pull your hands apart just a tiny amount. And I don't know if you're going to need to take off, pull your sleeves down. I actually don't know if it'll interfere. So I close your eyes, and I want you to feel the space between your hands. And you may feel like almost like a desire to kind of pull them together a little bit. You may feel like something like, you know, warmth between them. And now pull them apart a little bit more and feel that warmth expand.

It's almost like a fluffy cushion. I don't know if that makes any sense. If it doesn't make any sense, just shake your head, no. You sort of get what I... Okay, fuck. All right. So do you feel warmth between your palms? Okay.

Now bring him together a little bit and just focus on how the warmth changes. Now pull them apart a little bit. Focus on that warmth between your hands. And then a little bit further. And as you move your hands a little further apart, try to track the warmth. So do you feel? it when they're this far apart? Yeah, pull them a little bit further.

You feel it now? A bit further. How about now? Okay, good. So this is the limit, so bring them in a little bit. Now you feel it? Okay. So now what I want you to do is open your eyes for a second.

I want you to take your left palm and put your right palm inside it like this. Yep, very good. And then I want you to put your arms in your lap So it's kind of hand, like sit up straight and close your eyes. And what I want you to do is feel that warmth coming out of your palm. And I want you to breathe and sort of imagine almost like a circuit. Like there's energy coming into you either from the top of your head or your breath.

It travels through your arms in a circuit and kind of out of your palm. And as you sit, just focus on. any of those sensations that grab your attention. So whether it's the feeling of energy entering, or it passing through your body, or it coming out of your palms. And as you breathe, notice the vitality within yourself. It's kind of hard to describe,

but just notice that you're alive. And there's like life in there. there's a heartbeat, there's breath, there's energy, there's sensation, there's heat, and now see if there's darkness. There are ugly parts in there. If you can find something, nod your head, yes. And what does that feel like? Where is it? Tell us. Like my head. Okay. What about your head? feels like I'm sweating so...

Okay. So the darkness is sort of localized in your head. Okay. So just notice it. That's where it is. And now as you breathe in, breathe in through your nose and breathe into that darkness. And it's kind of like, almost like a sticky smoke kind of thing. And then breathe into it and you're kind of pumping fresh air and you're kind of pumping fresh air. in. And as you breathe out, let that out. And now I want you to set that aside for a moment and focus on the rest of your being. Once again, on the sensation of energy, entering your body, traveling through the circuits of your arms and coming out of your palms. And notice that even though there is a dark

patch within you, that there's a lot of you that isn't dark. And that this is who you are. not all bad, not all good. That if you give yourself the time, if you give yourself the space, and if you're patient with yourself, what you really are will start to shine through. And think about the difference between the way that you feel now and the way that you feel when that darkness dominates your body

and when you can't get out of bed. That it's okay to be disappointed that you always go back to square one. But then even if you do go back to square one, that you still have this buoyancy of life and vitality that pulls you out of it. And just let yourself be with that vitality for now. And now one last breath, really deep and then really slow as you exhale. And you're ready, open your eyes. What's behind the smile this time?

I'm really sweet. Like sweaty where? Where? Like my forehead. Is that new? No, I think I'm just like, like temperature-wise hot right now. I mean, I've heard a lot of things in meditation and people having reactions. I've never heard people get sweat here.

So I was like, I threw me for a loop. Okay, whatever. I also kept like hearing my heartbeat and whenever I hear my heartbeat I get really anxious but this time like it wasn't anxious so I don't know what that is but I'll take it I'll take whatever you're willing to give raid boss wow no but seriously so so so I think that's important okay so Minnie I think that you know as you look learn how to be comfortable with your heartbeat, right? That you can listen to your heartbeat that used to be anxiety provoking, but that you can also like tap into it and find like a regularity and a calmness to it. And just zone in on your heartbeat. If the circuits of energy and shit like that doesn't mean anything to you,

you can just focus on your heartbeat. And just sit with yourself. Because here's the thing, like for the most part, I don't know if this makes sense or not, but like what you sat with is not like a bad person. They're not a stain on the earth. Like it's just not what you are. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And so you just need to spend more time with that person. Because right now the biggest problem is that you spend a lot of time with the most negative parts of yourself. We're not saying that they're not real. It's just, you know, the TV is just stuck on that channel. and there's so many other channels. And so give yourself the benefit of sitting with the part of you that is awesome.

And the one that, you know, took a win off of Dr. Kay because that's rare. I'm so happy. See, like she's not even embarrassed by it. Like, oh, my God. Okay. All right. Any last thoughts or questions before we wrap up, Minnie? Thank you for having me.

You're so cool, Dr. Kay. You're so cool, Minnie. It was awesome when you came on. I'm thrilled you did. Really, it was a lot of fun. And good luck to you. Thank you.