HealthyGamerGG - Dr K's Advanced Tactics for ADHD ft. Mizkif

Episode Date: February 4, 2021

Today Mizkif returns to Dr. K's power hour for help in dealing with his ADHD. As it turns out, Mizkif inadvertently discovered meditation techniques that can help anchor him in the present.  Stream Schedule: https://www.twitch.tv/healthygamer_gg on Twitch. Youtube: https://youtu.be/s5cjlHMkOUM for VoD Archive. Support us at https://ko-fi.com/healthygamer if you enjoy our content and would continue helping making it accessible to everyone! Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can you see me now? Yes. How are you, bro? I am great, bro. What's going on, bro? I am getting over side effects from a COVID vaccine, which is not fun. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You already got the COVID vaccine?

Yeah. How'd you get it so fast? I'm a physician. I'm Group 1A. But you don't even, if you're, don't you just sit at home? You're not a, like the, our position is just doing stuff online through like Skype. Absolutely.

So why would it, why would it be important for me to be immune from COVID if I'm not seeing patients? Great question. Correct. Right. So what happens if I get sick? If, if I end up in the ICU for a month, what happens?

Then you need to see a doctor. And then it's just an ongoing. problem. More importantly, what happens to all of my patients who are more suicidal because COVID is making life worse? Who takes care of them if I'm sick? Destiny? I don't know. Yeah, that's the problem, man. So I thought about it for a little while and I was talking to my friends about it because I was like, I'm not actually front line. I don't physically see patients. And then I realize, like, I literally cannot afford to get sick. Yeah, I get that. My, you know, people are especially college students who I see at the worst in where like people are way worse like college students are really struggling um i don't know

exactly what it is but we'll see well they're probably depressed that their college careers are already like let's say if you're a senior or freshman or something in the middle even it's your college career has essentially like people think of college like the best years of your life and then when you go to college now of a sudden for the past year maybe even two years, you're just wasting away and you're ruining your whole college experience. Yeah. I think that's certainly a part of it. I think people find it incredibly isolating because a lot of college, like, you know, you get a lot of support from your people and not being able to see people and stuff like that, I think has been tough. I don't know if you've ever tried to, you know, take, do class entirely through Zoom and without interacting with professors and things like that. But that's rough, man.

Just Zoom all day, every day. Yeah, I've done online classes, but I didn't do Zoom. That sounds absolutely brutal. I feel like at first it sounds fantastic. And then after like the first couple weeks, have you ever seen the Squidward thing where Squidward's really happy and then he gets really upset because he's... No. Squidward is a SpongeBob character or what? Ah, crap.

Yeah, we're completely off. Yeah, it's a SpongeBob. character. Pretty much she's like in the ballpark. Yeah, you're right. You're right. There's no ballparks in SpongeBob, though. But he pretty much Sponge or Squidward, he's like really happy that he has this like life.

And then he just gets really depressed after like two weeks because he's like this sucks. Is that something you identify with? No, not at all. I'm actually, actually I have big news. So after I talked to you last, which was about over a year ago, um, around a year ago. I was on SRI's 20 milligram Lexapro, and now I'm not on it anymore.

I'm completely off of it. I went from 20 to 10 to 5 and now I'm at none. How do you understand that? That I'm off of it? Yeah. How did that happen? Good for you. Well, I said to my, you know,

actually Maya said it to me. She's like, why are you on this if you're not depressed? And I'm like, yeah, I guess you're right. And I really wasn't depressed anymore. but I felt like I had a cotton ball in my head for like the past 12 months. Fuzzy? Yeah, fuzzy. No, like my grandma died.

I was like, all right, whatever. My, you know, people died. I'm like, all right, whatever. Like, it's, I didn't really get to experience the emotional waves because they just felt like there was a cotton ball stuck in my head for the past 12 months. And it's still there. It's not going to go away for at least a few more months, right? I don't know. Are you suggesting that the cotton ball was due to the medication?

Yeah. I mean, 20 milligrams was a lot. It was. Sure. I felt it. But I don't know. How long does Lexifer last in your system? Usually, I think about an average of like eight weeks. So if we think about the therapeutic effect of SSRIs, they take about eight weeks to fully get active in your brain. And so I think about that is sort of the minimum amount of time that they sort of stay with you. Oh, then you have to have it. And, and I mean, I've had some people who, you know, will take months to kind of get better. Other people will get better in like a couple of weeks, actually. So it just depends on the person.

Did you, I assume you, since you talked about doing a taper, I assume that your prescriber was aware that you were coming off of the medication. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I told him. I mean, he was really, I mean, I like went in there and he's just like, you're depressed. And I'm like, huh? And he just gave me SSR-I's. And then I'm like, I want to get off of this. He's like, just cut them in half.

I'm like, okay. Very, I don't know if he takes SSRIs, but he was very unemotional with it. He was just like, get in, get out, just next. That's okay. I mean, it worked. It solved my problems for about a year. And then, so that was good. And I did get off of this two days ago.

And I still feel. it for sure, but I just hope to have some emotional pull with stuff compared to what I did. But yeah, it also makes me lack creativity as much as I used to. I hate that. Yeah, that sounds like the medication costs you a lot. Yeah, it cost me a lot, but it helped me a lot because I was in a really, I mean, I don't if you remember, but I was, I went to a ward. I with the depersonalization issues. And it kind of just like put a cotton ball on my head and it was just like, stop. And I'm like, all right.

So it did help. It almost numbed the pain. It was like a, it like put a band-aid on it, but it didn't really heal it. But now I feel a lot better. How do you think so? It sounds like you got healed.

Yeah. I feel like I've gotten healed. I feel a lot better. I feel like I've went from this. I mean, I still have a lot of problems for sure. I mean, I'm a streamer for one. but I do have a lot of problems, but I think I do, I'm not depressed anymore, that's for sure.

I don't think I'm depressed. I don't think I don't have any anxiety. I had really bad anxiety where I would just wake up in the middle. It was really at night. I don't know if there's a common thing, but people having anxiety only at night in their sleep or before they go to bed. That's all. I never had anxiety during the day.

it was i didn't care about that i only had it before i went to bed or during while i was sleeping i would have anxiety what um misgift what would you wake up worrying about in the middle of the night that's the thing really nothing i i didn't really worry or care about any my stomach would just start feeling like it's it's doing 360s and i i felt pain in my stomach and i'm like i don't know what this anxiety is from yeah it was really bad and i sounds like a very physiologic anxiety as opposed to a cognitive anxiety. Like it was in the body as opposed to your mind. Is there a big difference?

I guess it's a big difference. What does it mean? Like as I feel it more than. Yeah. So I think, you know, it's funny because anxiety is getting worse like in the world. So more people are getting diagnosed with anxiety. More people are getting treated with anxiety. The number of people diagnosed is climbing over time.

And so if we think about it like, you were about to say something? No, I was going to wonder why do you think. that. Yeah, it's an interesting question, right? So, like, do illnesses just sort of, like, especially mental health issues, do they just sort of randomly get worse? Like, what's going on? Oddly enough, I think part of the reason that it's happening in this country is because we think about anxiety as a psychiatric problem, right? Like, we're like, if you have anxiety, like, go see a therapist. Whereas the funny thing is that when we sort of remove the body from the equation, then we run into people like yourself, where you go talk to a therapist and they're going to

ask you about your thoughts and your feelings. But, you know, clinical social workers, psychologists, they're not going to be like, they don't know anything about the body. And when I hear a story like this, it reminds me that, you know, anxiety has two roots. It can be rooted in your body or it can be rooted in your mind. And the two connect with each other. But I think part of the reason that in a sense, people are getting more anxious is because we're leaving out half of our solutions. because half of the solutions for anxiety actually reside in the body, not the mind. I see that. That makes sense.

So you have a physiologic anxiety. So I think, you know, talking about your emotions and talking about your feelings and doing therapy will probably help because that is going to affect your body. It's going to lower your stress levels. It's going to lower your cortisol, things like that. That will affect your stomach. Sure. But if you've got, you know, primarily a physical problem, then sometimes what you need is primarily a physical solution. See, they're like working out.

Working out as a part of it, but that's a very untargeted solution. So if you had like issues in your stomach, I'd say that's what you should start with. So, you know, are you constipated? I used to be when I was a kid. I used to take suppositories. Yeah. So how are your bowel movements now? Squeaky clean.

I think. How many, you have one every day? I'd say about. Let me know if I ask you any questions that you're uncomfortable answering. There's nothing you can say that I care about. Let me ask you that question. Floaters or sinkers? Does your poop float or does it sink?

Good question. I usually try to just like flush and get the hell out of there. But I would say probably most of the time it's it's a log. Okay. Okay. I remember last time you told me to get this pill that can help me with my, begin with the C, I think it was. to try to help.

That certainly sounds like medical advice. I doubt I would do that. Oh, okay. I don't remember what it was. I don't know. What did I tell you? I don't. Or maybe it was something like you put in your drink or something.

I forgot, I thought it began with the letter C. Did I tell you to take fenugreek seeds? Oh, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. So this is where, you know,

Biscif, so in Ayurveda, they think that most of the problems in our mind actually start in our bowels. And there's growing evidence of this, actually, as bizarre as that sounds. There are even trials where they'll do stool transplants. So what they'll do is they'll take like stool from one organism that doesn't have anxiety. And they'll give that, so they'll transplant that stool into another organism.

And then the recipient of the transplant will like feel better. Do you think that's because the stool is like it's like what they're eating? Absolutely. So here's what happens. So like our bowels have bacteria, right? And the bacteria are going to be selected for based on what I put into my stomach. So one bacteria is going to be really good at digesting twinkies. And the other bacteria is going to be really good at digesting broccoli. And what happens is when we eat a bunch of twinkies, we're feeding the twinkie bacteria. So that grows in our gut. And then when we eat a bunch of broccoli, that grows the broccoli bacteria. And what we found is that actually we have a very symbiotic relationship with bacteria. And they produce lots of compounds that sort of like, you know, go into our bloodstream and stuff like that. Some kinds of bacteria also cause more inflammation. And there are even some trials, for example, that are exploring the use of anti-inflammatory agents like ibuprofen or Advil for depression.

Wow. Yeah. So it's like all interconnected. And basically what people have found is that people who have low anxiety, for example, have two kinds of bacteria in their gut. And people who have high anxiety have a different two kinds of bacteria. So there's like pro-anxiety bacteria and there's anti-anxiety bacteria. And if you think about how do you switch from pro-anxiety bacteria to anti-anxiety bacteria? One could be a stool transplant.

But the other way you can do it is by altering your diet. And this is what the folks and the Ayurbedic folks basically figured out is that, there are some kinds of foods that you can eat that'll lower your anxiety level. Is one of them broccoli? Let me think about that. I'm sure it won't hurt. I'd say the key thing about broccoli would be to eat it cooked if you want to lower your anxiety based on Ayurvedic theory. That's interesting.

Yeah, I could definitely see that because a lot of times when I had anxiety, I felt it in my gut. But I don't know if that's related at all. But I actually have a question for you. So I still have a problem. and I don't know how to solve it. And it's every day I deal with this. And I've been dealing with my entire life. I don't know what to do with my ADHD.

When it comes to, you know, like a kaleidoscope? I feel like that's how I view life at all times. And I'm not really there. It feels like I'm just watching. It's like life is a movie and I'm like watching it. I don't know how to describe it. But I never feel like I'm actually like,

mentally there enjoying moments because there's a lot of times where I should be really happy or a lot of times where it's like my body's there I'm like

and I could talk it's not like I'm like you know in like the avatar state or something where I can't talk I could talk and I could do everything but I just mentally I feel like I'm in another world

where are you? Thinking honestly about what? I don't know about random things will be just a lot of random things and i'm not really sure exactly what usually those things are but but i have a question where are you from are you from california i'm from texas dude

wait you're in texas yeah wait what oh because the the quality of the camera is horrible and i thought it's because i was in texas but i don't know where it is that the i don't i don't know seems fine to me but are you in dallas no i'm in houston or near houston Oh. But yeah, I see my example of my ADHD. It's there. I don't even know why we've got to be. Yeah, but let me ask you something.

So let's, you said this has been going on your entire life. So you're saying that your body and parts of your mind will participate in regular life, but that your attention is somewhere else. Yes, 100%. You've like, you've turned on auto run and your character is just. No, that's, that's actually exactly how it feels. It feels like,

I am not there, but I get everything done. Like I'll, and sometimes I'll be saying to myself, like, how the hell am I doing this? Like, I'll be like in a run in speed running in Mario, and I'll be like under by two minutes. And I'll be like, how am I even, I'm not even paying attention. Like, what the hell is going on?

And or it'll, I do feel like I'm almost doing life on auto. And I don't. And it's been like that for my whole life. It's not just because now I can just turn. on the stream and people are there. It's my whole life, I feel like it's been auto. My whole life, I feel like I've been, um,

I've never really gotten to enjoy the moment. And it just has that kaleidoscope feeling where it just feels like a billion things are going on. And I don't really, I never know how to just focus and enjoy like, I want to be able to just sit there, look outside and just feel like I'm actually there enjoying the sun. And I've never, ever been able to do that. Even when I like, I had like a really nice sunset at my house.

I see it all the time. And I never really get to enjoy it because there's always stuff going on my head. Or then all of a sudden, even if I'm not thinking of anything crazy, some song will start playing. Like in the back of my head, just music, songs, anything. It's very odd. And I don't know what to do. So what I'm hearing you say is that you're not able to be present and that you've ever been able to be. be present. Yeah, I've never really been able to be present at all. And I think that also not being

present really affects the ability for me to, uh, my ability not to be present makes me have a lack of of memory with a lot of these things because yeah, I'm there and I'm talking to you, but my brain's in six different places. Like right now I'm listening while I'm talking to you, there's like three songs going to back my head, a TikTok that Maya showed me. Maya made. Mya make me food and I'm thinking about the fact that there's a guy coming forth with my furniture in about 30 minutes. It's like I'm not, I'm here, but I want to be present. Like, and I feel like I'm not fully present. Have you ever been present in your entire life? Really? I have had terrible ADHD. And a lot of times when I'm not present, it's usually me trying to think of the

next thing to say that will make someone laugh. It's usually, yeah, it's usually me trying to be What can I say or do you? You ever taken a road trip and you really, really, really needed to pee? Yes. And then when you actually pee, where is your mind in that moment where you start pissing? Are you still doing like five or six things in your head? I don't think so. I don't remember fully, but I'm going to assume no.

So where is your attention then? Fully on the piss. But that's because it matters, right? Well, hold on a second. Why it happens, we'll figure out later. First question is, does it happen? Yes, it does happen where you're fully central focused on one thing. And I guess that I was going to say that happens when you're working out.

But even then, I remember lifting stuff. And while I'm benching, I'll be like, you know, thinking of stupid stuff. I'm like, why am I thinking of this? I should just focus on the weights. But yeah, it does happen with the piss,

I think. It's more so, I guess that's a very, why that happens, I'm assuming it's because it's the most important thing for humans at the time because we're,

it's like our bowels moving. I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting, right? So let, like, we'll figure out how to get you there,

Ms. Kiff. Um, but the first thing is to recognize that you actually can be present. at times. So, but, you know, what I'm hearing you say is that it's practically very hard. It's so hard. And. Yeah.

It's really hard to be present. Seems like that's cost you a lot. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, all you can have all the success in the world, but when you don't get to enjoy it, it's rough. And I mean, it's not even then. It's, it's, it goes to the thing with the memory. problem. I mean, I don't remember a single thing for my childhood. Not a single. My friends will be like, oh, remember this. Remember we did this? My brother will say stuff. My sister will say stuff. People will say stuff. I don't remember any of it. My parents will talk about times where we went to the water park. I don't remember we went to a water park. My grandma recently died. I don't remember anything from her house. I remember her house. I remember, you know, one or two things, but I don't remember as much as I wish I did. I don't remember.

a lot of the things. And partially, I wish I took more pictures when I was younger, but I didn't because I had acne. But I partially think that it's because I just, I'm not, I wasn't there in the present moment thinking about it. I was thinking about other things or my future or problems. I don't know. Being in the presence is very hard for me. It just is.

Yeah. And I'm also kind of noticing that it really has cost you a lot. It's almost like your brain is like, you know, a colander that's just like leak. memories. And then you're sort of not left with anything. Yeah, it doesn't feel. And I mean, yeah, I mean, and partially it, you know, there's pros and cons to everything in life. And one of the pros of that is I forget everything so fast. So if something bad happens to me, I forget it in 20 minutes. And I'm like, whatever, you know, next thing. So it's easier in that way where I forget everything. But at the same time, you don't

really have a lot of memories or like like I played World of Warcraft for 10 years and I don't remember a single thing. Let me ask you something. Is there something that happened to you that you really that some part of your mind thought it was really important to forget? Like a childhood experience. It's interesting. You kind of said that you forget everything easily, which is an upside. So I'm kind of curious, how has that helped you? Oh, how it's helped me to forget things. I don't know. I mean, I guess an example I could think of right now is because of chat or like Twitch chat.

Like let's say someone makes me really mad. A lot of times, like I'll hear my friends say that like, oh, you know, Twitch was chat was terrible today, blah, blah, blah. And yeah, sometimes my chat could get bad too. Everyone's can. And when it happens for my chat or for me, I forget about it in 20 minutes. I don't remember. Like, oh, that happened? Like,

so let me ask you something in a different way, Miss Giff. If you didn't forget everything in 20 minutes, what would your mind be like? What would have, what would you have held on to? Memories. Yeah, so good memories, any particular bad ones? I realize this is kind of weird because I'm asking you to remember that which you have forgot. Yeah.

It's, I mean, it's, I mean. I remember. a lot of bad memories with my family. Not a lot of good ones though. I don't remember a lot of the good times. I just remember a lot of like, oh, this person died. I remember what happened when this person died or this guy died.

I don't really remember when we had fun. I just remember when he died. Or like my dog died like a couple months ago. And I'm like, I don't remember. And I remember all the bad times. Like I had to go catch him because he was in the highway running around or jumping on my neighbors and them threatening to sue us, but I don't remember the times where you to just hang out.

I don't remember any of it. All I remember is him being horrible. So how do you understand that? It seems like you actually hold on to a lot of the bad, very little of the good. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's because I don't know why I do that. But yeah, I do that.

I think of a lot of the bad, but not the good. Maybe it's because I'm, I know, this may this may be a. stretch, but I'm very future, like, I care a lot about my future. I've always been like that. Like, since the young age, I've always been caring about, you know, what my future is going to be like when I'm like 30 or 40 or 50. That's what I've cared about a lot is my future, not necessarily my present. Like I'll, whether I, like, I was at a young age and I was investing in stocks. I was saving money to invest in stocks. Uh, and. And.

that kind of stuff. So help me understand why you cared so much about the future. Why do you care so much? My parents made me. Can you tell me about that? They're accountants.

I mean, they're typical nine to five, go to work, hate your job, hate your life, mundane, wake up at six in the morning, give your kids your food, go to work at 8 o'clock,

get home by 6 o'clock, sit down and watch CNN and go to bed by 9. I mean, it's a very mundane, boring life. And that's part of the way I became a streamer, because I saw that life and I'm like, God, I don't want to be you. Because, you know, I know that they had a lot of things that they really cared about and a lot of things

that they really wanted to become. And they never did any of it because they, were just stuck in their nine to five jobs. They never tried anything in life. Sounds like you. You weren't going to be destined to be like that. Well, I actually was for a while. I was going to go to this place called Vanguard.

Because I took a lot of Adderall. And I was like, I took a lot of Adderall. I almost became like a different person from taking it. I took it for six years. And I said to myself, like, you know what? I'll do this route of life. It's not bad. A job of the nine to five, it's not a bad life.

But where's your mind right now? I'm playing with this thing. Where's your mind, though? Is it on telling the story? I'm trying to like think of the story in my head. It's like trying to like reach in my head and grab a story out of a container. I don't know. I'm trying to think of it.

It's hard. Yep, yep. So let's pause because I think there's something important here, okay? So I would say that, oddly enough, this is the most focused you've been since we've started talking. Yeah, it's because I started playing with this. When I'm, when I usually am playing with something, I'm focused more. Good. How do you understand that?

Because oddly enough, when I was a couple months ago, all we did was play Pokemon cards. And I've kept this deck because if I'm ever. feeling really ADHD, I play with this deck and I just do this. And I think it almost like makes me focus more because there's something distracting me. I don't know. I feel like a kid with boo-boo keys, but I mean, it does work. No, no, my friend. You have just on your own discovered Dharana. What's that? One of the Sanskrit words for meditation. Oh. You have essentially discovered the essence of meditation, all on your own without anyone teaching you. It's really a beautiful discovery.

And I think your answer is going to be right there because you've learned how to focus. So your mind is what it is. We can get upset about whatever. But what happens when you start shuffling your Pokemon cards? I don't know how to describe it. I don't know why it works, but it just does. Like when I play with things, it just makes me focus. And I don't get why.

So the Sanskrit, the yogis had a word for things like Pokemon cards and that strap. That word is alambana. Alambana means support. So what they realize is that they're like supports for meditative practice and focusing the mind. Essentially, I don't know exactly how they figured this out, but it must have been some guy with ADHD like yourself who made an interesting observation, which is that when we have something that sort of, demands our attention and we are kind of fiddling with it. Somehow that actually focuses, it's like, this is the way I want you to think about your mind, Ms. Kiff. You've got a certain amount of RAM. The problem is that you've got too much RAM for your own good. And then what happens is like,

you want to be at 130% capacity all the time. And so like you've got these five or six different processes that are going. And what you really need to focus is something to take the excess mental energy off. Yeah. And if you can offload some of that excess mental energy, then you'll actually be able to focus. Hmm. And that's, you know, it's interesting.

When I'm doing speed running, I don't know if you watch, but I do a lot of Mario now. When I speed run, I actually feel more focused to my chat than I do when I'm sitting full camp talking to them. Yep. because it's almost like that fidget thing that I'm playing with is in a game. Yeah. So that's the alumina. So as long as you have one thing, so this is the way that I want you to kind of think about it.

Like you run too fast for your own good. So what we need to do is not, and this is the real problem with people with ADHD is that they think that they're like stupid or something. Your problem is not that your mind is too weak. your problem is that your mind is too strong. So in order to slow you down, what we need to do is like stick some weights on your back. We're going to give you a backpack full of bricks. And this is also the kind of thing where like one of my teachers once taught me this,

which is that I was failing when I was doing like one thing. So in college I started getting just straight Fs like F bombing, less than 1.0 GPA, I think my first semester of college. And so then my, I was doing a bunch of shit. And then my dad was like, you know, cut out all the extracurricular. don't run for student government. Just focus on your classes. And then I focused on my classes and my GPA got worse.

And then he's like, okay, like, let's take half a regular course load. So like I'm not doing any extracurriculars, not doing anything else. I'm just going to take like, I'm going to be a half time student. Oh, you completely froze to me. Uh-oh, Gigi. Yeah. Where I lose you. There we go.

Oh, and your camera looks so much better. Do you remember where we were in the story? Yes. you were saying how when you were a kid, your, when you were a kid, your, your dad told you to, when you were in college, to not do all the extra, all the extra curricular activities.

Yep, extra curriculars. Yeah. And then you stopped taking your extra curricular activities and then you did worse. Yep. And then the next semester, I took like half a regular course load and I still did worse. And so one of my teachers, I went to India then and decided to become a monk and all that good stuff. And one of my teachers was telling me that like taking half a normal course load is a terrible idea.

That in order for my mind to be at peak efficiency, I need to be juggling multiple balls. And so I think you're someone who's the same way, Ms. Kiff, where like if your mind is actually juggling multiple things, you're going to actually perform even better. And you just need. What can I do with that? how can I be more present? You know, like that, like, that's my real problem because I, like, I wish, you know, like when you're eating food at like a sushi restaurant or something and it's like,

so good. I don't, I don't feel that as much as like, I feel like everyone else does because I'm like sitting there. I'm like, I'm not enjoying this as much as you are. Like, it's, it's just food to me.

Like, and that's why I'll eat literally almost anything is because I just, to me, it's just food. When people enjoy the tastes, and I feel like they're just there in the moment and they're able to enjoy that taste. And for me, I can't do that. I've never been able to really enjoy it. And that's what I really wish I could fix

is the feeling of not being in the moment. Okay. So I think we can at least start you on the road to that today. So two things that I would recommend. One is, and I'm happy to send you one, if you don't have one or can't find one. You have a set of prayer beads? No.

Okay. So a couple things we can do. One is that I would recommend a practice, which is that you carry some prayer beads around. And whenever you want to, that is going to be the thing that you distract yourself with. It's going to be an alumbana. Okay. So like what I want you to do is like use a set of prayer beads. And if you want to, I'll give you like a mantra, like a mantra or something like that too,

which is like something that you're going to repeat to yourself as you use. the prayer beads. It's going to be the same thing as the Pokemon cards or the belt or whatever else. Does that make sense? So a prayer beads, it's not to pray. It's to... Nope. It's not to pray. Just to hold. To hold and to use. So I want you to repeat something to yourself. This is if you want to, okay? So what I'm saying is that instead of using random alumina's to use one alumina and to use it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. That makes sense. Like a fidget thing?

There's like a lot of fidget ADHD toys on... Yep. Exactly. Just like a fidget thing. Now, there is a particular tradition, which would argue that if you chant a particular month or you use the set of prayer beads, that it is superior to other kinds of fidget things. I'll try it. Okay.

So that's one option. And so what I want you to do is just use that as the excess RAM buffer. So any amount of excess energy that you. you have, you can go ahead and use that. You can carry it around with you. You can keep it on your wrist. The next time you eat sushi, I want you to pull it off your wrist and then do that with one hand while you eat the sushi with the other. I'm going to look like I'm like doing an exorcism off of my sushi, but I'll do it. Try it and see what happens. Right? So let me ask you this. If you were doing poke, if you were shuffling your Pokemon cards at the table while, you know,

your girlfriend fed you sushi, do you think it would taste better? Honestly, probably, yeah. As weird as it sounds. I mean, that's why when fidget spinners came out and people were like, oh, ha ha, like, this is a funny thing. I was like, this is sick because it actually did help. I remember I had it in the hospital. I'm like, this is cool because it actually worked for me. Yeah.

So that's. It made me feel more in the moment. I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't aware that you were in the hospital, by the way. but um and oh yeah it was it was it was it was when i was in the hospital for uh i have a heart condition you have what a heart condition okay yeah it's called viral myrochroditis it's a because i took all my adderol for six years and then um my heart got really weak and when my heart got really weak i started taking adderol or not well that made no sense um i took adderil my heart got really weak i apparently they say I drank pool water or something and it was contaminated, gave myself a virus in my heart and it's there forever.

And then one day while I was with my friends, the heart virus came out more and I got really, really sick. Sorry to hear that, man. No, yeah, it's fine. I mean, I had a fidget spinner, so it was okay. You said, I thought you said something about depersonalization. Oh, insane. I've always had depersonalization issues but I think a lot of people with ADHD do

it's just like I never feel like I'm really there it goes back to that I just never feel like I'm I literally feel like every day my life is just like a wise man named John Zirka says that my life is like a movie

but for me my life is like a movie but for me my life feels like a movie where I feel like I'm not really there and I think it's also been personified over the past couple years because I was once a Twitch viewer right, it's all I did.

I just sat there, I watched Twitch eight hours a day, nine hours a day. I didn't type, but I just watched Twitch and over the past few years, obviously the growth has just been going up, up, up, right? And I think I used to say to my when I was in my and back in what a couple years ago I would be like man if how does Justin Bieber

feel like life is real you know like how does he not feel like that his life is like fake or that it's some kind of like bullshit because this dude's you know got millions of dollars everyone knows his name why him you know same with these streamers why them and then it makes me think like I always had to see personalization issues but I think it's got even worse now because it's like, why me with this massive growth of Twitch? And I don't get any of it. And it makes me feel like almost like I'm like, why? Does it make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So this is kind of going to be weird. But, you know, we can talk a little bit more about the depersonalization in a second. The second thing that I'm going to ask you to do is to go one level

meta. So if you can't enjoy the sushi, can you at least be present? with your scattered mind. That's hard too. What do you mean by that? Like as we're talking right now, it's just, I don't know, like it's almost like there's layers

of different things that I'm like down here, like let's say up here is present time, right? And like there's just layers of stuff that my brain is just constantly thinking about. It's not just like one thing. Right now, I'm thinking of Camp Laslo and Mitch Jones. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Ms. Skip, perfect. So let me ask you something. How are you aware that there are layers? Because I guess like over, like thinking of it about it over. I mean, I've had it for so long.

I've just thought about it. It's just, you know, the idea of some things are much more apparent in my mind right now. Like I was like, this is like layer one. And like layer four is like Camp Laslo or Mitch Jones. Yeah. So, so when you say you've thought about it, sort of, right? So let's be clear on what that means. And I'm going to put something for it because I could be wrong here.

But what I would say is that what you've thought about is making sense of your experience. But there still remains the fact that you are the raw data of different layers of consciousness are there. So there's still a part of you that, like, is observing the surface thoughts, the deeper thoughts and, like, the subsurface thoughts. Yeah. It feels like, yeah, it's like, I'm here, like, looking down my layers. I don't know. It's so, it's so complicated. Yep.

But I do feel like I'm, like, looking at my layers. So then, so let me ask you something. What is the you who is doing the looking in that moment? Like my, I guess, I feel like this is necessary. say T question. I don't know. It's, it's, it's, it's, what, just what do you think is? Just start talking. You're more right than you realize. Uh, I mean, it's, say is right. It's like, I guess it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's probably me, right? Yeah. Like my body. And then my brain is like the layers. Yep. Right. So, so I would describe it.

Yeah. So let's just, so that's a beautiful way to put it. So I'm going to rephrase a little bit. So what you're saying is that there's, something, I'm going to call your brain your mind, okay? Because you can't really see your brain. What you can see is your mind, which is like your thoughts. And then I'm, I'm, I'm, so we're just going to say that there's something outside of your mind that is observing the actions of your mind. And whereas most human beings are sort of just aware of one layer of their mind, right? Like, so even if we think about something like subconscious processing, like, I'm going to go to sleep one night. I'm going to worry about a problem. And then when I wake up, I have no conscious recollection of it. But my unconscious is kind of working on it.

And then eventually I'll come to an answer. Does that make sense? That was a lot. Sorry. Okay. So, like, most human beings are not aware of their subconscious processes, whereas you are. Oh, God. That makes sense.

Right? So, like, let's think about someone who's, like, getting cold feet before a wedding. And they wake up the more. morning of and they're like, you know what, I can't go through with it. Even though on the surface, they've been like planning their wedding for the last 60 days. Sub-surface, there's been some like churning of thoughts and feelings that they've been completely unaware of, which is why how they got to wedding day in the first place. But then they wake up on the day of the wedding and they're like, fuck it, I can't do this.

This person isn't right for me. Does that make sense? Yeah. But I, and I'm able to see those layers. Yeah, that doesn't make sense. And so the interesting thing there is that like if we think about someone who's absorbed in sushi, they're just absorbed at the surface layer of mind. Whereas your problem is that your attention is fractured by like all of these other layers of mind that you're observing. So what can I do?

It's a good question. So the first thing is can you sit with the part of you and be present with the part of you that notices the fracturing? So you're saying that your life is like a movie, right? And you're watching. Can you be present? And you're looking at someone watching, like, you're watching a movie of someone eating sushi. And you're like, man, like that person on the screen is really enjoying the sushi. But I can't taste it sitting in the theater.

That's what your life is like, right? Yeah. And so then the question is, can you sit with the person who's in the theater fully? like fully be able to like back up and see everything yeah or just sit with the observer it's so hard i've tried to tread everything i i have tried everything when it comes to this stuff i don't know sure i i believe i have nope i believe you i think you i think you've i think you've come a very long way on your own and without any help yeah and i think it's gotten worse it's it's only going to get worse for to

and trying to not, it's trying to be like in the theater rather than it's honestly going to get harder for me or it's gotten harder because like, I mean,

I don't think technology really helps. I mean, like there's like seven different monitors and like six cat cams or whatever. Like there's a billion different things that just draw your attention as well. So it's even harder to feel like you're present or harder to really understand your emotions. What I've noticed.

the best way to do it is, and to really understand what I'm thinking about is to almost, I close my eyes a lot to understand it. So that way, I'm not looking at anything. And the only thing I can possibly focus on is my brain or my mind. Okay. Let me just think about this for a second. If you have to close your eyes, I get it. No.

So actually, um, Miskif I'm like you. And I need my, I need my, I need the. random sensory input from my eyes to offload my excess RAM. So it actually helps me to have eyes open and look at all kinds of random things. Sometimes my patients think I'm not paying attention because my mind has to just like look around at random shit. That's interesting. Yeah.

For me, it's the more random shit I look at, the more I start thinking of random stuff and the worse it gets. If I close my eyes and I'm able to like, I mean, there's nothing I can look at, right? when my eyes are closed. So it's a lot easy for me to think in my mind or try to understand or be more present, but I don't want to be blind. Yeah, so it sounds like it's very hard for you to sit with

sitting in the theater. Yeah. Can you be present? It's everywhere. Can you be present in the theater? I'm not talking about being present with the sushi. I'm talking about being present with the thing that notices that you're not present with the sushi.

I don't think I've ever been present anywhere. Okay. Okay. So you also sound kind of hopeless to me. Yeah, kind of. What is it? I don't know. It just did,

I feel like I've tried this for so long. And I actually was excited as a kid to grow up because I was excited that hopefully ADHD would get less and like not as bad, but it just stayed the same. And I feel like I've tried so much. Are you still taking stimulant medication if you don't mind? Oh, no, no.

I stopped that years ago, like three years ago. I can't because my heart condition, I wasn't able to take out of all. Yeah. So how do you think, what do you think has happened to your attention since you stopped the medication? It's gotten worse.

But what's crazy is even when I was on the medication, it's not like I was like, wow like this is what real life feels like i almost like was still on the outer scope of myself and i'm like inside a robot suit and the robot was able to do everything but i was stuck inside the robot suit just watching myself do all the work um i didn't feel really even present while on adderall i just felt like i was able to do work this this is going to be hard but just stay with me okay so here's the problem so you're inside the robot suit and what you're trying to do is grasp the full experience of the robot.

Yes. Right? So what I'm telling you to do is instead of even trying to grasp the full experience of the robot, grasp the full experience of the dude inside the robot suit. So you want me to instead of trying to, yeah, so instead of trying to focus, yeah, just focus on the inside, not on the outside. Yep. So like, I know this is going to sound weird, but instead of saying, oh, man, I wish I

could really enjoy this sushi right now. Say to yourself, oh, look, I'm someone who can't enjoy this sushi right now. That sucks. That's what it sounds like. I completely agree. It does suck. But this, this is going to be hard, but follow me, okay? Because you're not enjoying the sushi anyway. So you're not at all. The problem here is that you've got two things working against you. One is that you can't enjoy the sushi. And the second, is that you beat yourself up for not being able to enjoy the sushi. Yeah, all the time. Even while everyone else is enjoying the sushi,

I'm, so it adds another way. Think of the layers. It adds another layer when I'm saying myself, like I'm already thinking of Jimmy Neutron, you know, Mitch Jones dancing, add another layer.

The other layer is, wow, now everyone is enjoying the sushi and having fun and I'm sitting here in my own head and I can't think of anything. Okay, so let me ask you a wild question. Which of the layers do you think? think interferes with your enjoyment of the sushi the most? The one that's at the top.

Which is one. I mean, they all do to a sense, but definitely the one where I'm not, I'm thinking to myself about all the other layers. And I'm like, damn, that top layer, I'm like, I can't enjoy this shit. Yeah. So just think about that for a second. What I'm telling you to do is accept that you can't enjoy the sushi. Because the problem is that when you beat yourself up for not enjoying the sushi, it

creates tension and a rift in your mind. Tension and rift in internal warring in the mind is the very opposite of mindfulness. It's the very opposite of presence. When you're warring with your mind, you're not present at all. So the issue is how do you get rid of that top layer? How do you get rid of beating yourself up for not, like, it's kind of like a self-defeating prophecy because you're not enjoying the sushi. So you beat yourself up.

And by beating yourself up, you're not unable to enjoy the sushi because that's the top layer of mind. Yeah. I feel that's crazy. I almost want to draw this out. Yes. I feel like they, hmm, I wish I had a piece of paper.

Go get your paper in a pen. Just like last time, bro. Go. I'm going. Now we're getting somewhere. Okay. All right.

So I got this. Because I feel like chat or that and people in general are not going to understand what we're talking about. Pretty much how it feels is let's say this is me

right obviously my legs are a little bit shorter but this is how my mind feels it's like there's layers and let's say everyone is up here

enjoying sushi having fun I feel like most people maybe have like one or two layers of issues or things that they're thinking about when for me

or someone with ADHD, it's like we have you know, five different layers of problems. Like down here is just a, you know, a random song.

This one is just like Camp Laslow for some reason. I don't know why, but I'm just randomly thinking about it. And these are all constantly switching around with my thoughts all the time. And it's just constant.

But the more of the layers go up, the more that it's prominent in my mind at the time. This number one is usually why can't, I'm terrible writing, I be present. And that's caused because of all these other layers that are making me not present. So what you're saying is instead of caring about why can't I be present, focus on these these layers. Nope. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is be present with layer number one. So be present here. Yeah. Just sit with yourself and acknowledge. Oh, Ms. Giff is someone that cannot enjoy sushi. Alas, I am cursed. So be it. Look at everyone else enjoying that sushi. And here I am being unable to enjoy it because of the activity of my mind.

I want you to be the person in the audience who is watching the movie where the dude is not enjoying the sushi. Because the problem. Huh? The movie sucks. I don't want to do that. There's your problem. So it sounds to me like you've tried everything under the sun except this. Yeah.

So here's what you need to do to move past it, Miskif. You need to grieve. And I think that you don't know how to grieve. And the reason that you don't know how to grieve is because your mind from a very, very young age taught you how to forget. And that's why you don't remember. So when something bad happens to you, your mind is a survival mechanism, has learned how to forget. Yeah. And so what you need to do is learn how to sit with your inability to sit with something.

And so you can still be present. See, like, I think this is really good. It's hard. Don't get me wrong. This is like the silver bullet. Okay. And they're going to be easier ways that we can get you to this. Remember, I told you about the Mala first.

But if you can learn how to sit with your inability to sit with something, what you're still doing is learning how to sit with something. To be present with your scattered mind. Yeah. So you're saying I have always been trying to figure out how to stop. these layers when I should realize by now that's not going to happen. And what I should focus on instead of, you know, that is just focus on the fact that I can't enjoy it. This is what, yeah.

So I know that sounds weird. But this is what you're trying to do. So like my kids the other day, I told them that they were in the bath. And I told them, hey, I want to show you something really cool. But the water in the bathtub has to be still. And so they were playing in the bathtub. And I'm like, the water in the bathtub has to be still before we put this boat in the bathtub. And so what they try to do is push the waves down.

And what happens when they do that? They push the waves down? Yep. They create more waves. Absolutely. Wow, that was a very beautiful way of saying it. So here you are with the top layer of your mind trying to push all of the waves of the other part of the mind down. Push it down, baby.

You guys fucking stop with Camp Laslo. I'm trying to enjoy sushi here. Falk Camp Laslo. And that creates tension in the mind. That creates a war in the mind. And then you wonder why you can't enjoy sushi. Yeah. So a calm mind can enjoy things.

And the problem is that at the top, the biggest thing is why can't I be present? And what I'm telling you, if you want that to go away, accept it. It'll melt. Yeah, maybe you're right. Because I feel like my whole life is just, it literally this is what it feels like all the time.

And what's odd is whenever I have, and this is what I think some people might understand, like let's say if I have a toy that I'm playing with in my head, that this whole thing goes from like five layers to just kind of almost one or two, which is toy and then thoughts and then maybe, maybe another layer, which is just like,

Camp Laslo. Like, okay, okay. So, misgip, this is important. When you play with the toy, you're not fighting anything. Yeah. That's what reduces the number of layers. You're removing tension from the mind.

You're offloading energy. Instead of two parts warring with each other, one of the armies goes off and spins a fidget. Yeah. And when it goes off and spins a fidget, the tension in the mind reduces. you remove the excess energy and your mind is left in a calmer state. It's almost like when your kids, instead of fighting the waves, they're just playing with the boat.

And then the waves calm down. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I need more toys. So the Mala is one toy that you can train to use. So a couple of principles here. Sure, you need more toys. But there is a hypothesis that you can actually level up with one. toy. And that the more

you level up with that toy, the stronger it becomes at like reducing different layers of your mind. Yeah, I agree. I think a good ADHD toy would be nice. And yeah, I think that that makes a lot of sense

is if I'm able, instead of trying to fight the waves, just go with them. And the waves will melt. Because if you're trying to fight waves, you can't fight the wave. Like, And you're right. Whenever I'm in this moment of like my friends enjoying sushi, I'm always mainly thinking about like, fuck, I'm not enjoying that this at all. I am not enjoying the sushi. They're enjoying it. That probably tastes so much better to them than me. And that these problems still happen. But this one is so prominent. If I just, you know, be in my mind instead. Yeah, it can make a big difference. Let me ask you, what, the harder you try to enjoy the sushi, what happens?

the less I enjoy it because I'm overthinking. Absolutely. So if the harder you try to fight it, the less your enjoyment happens, what I'm telling you to do is fucking embrace it, baby. Sit with yourself being unable to enjoy it. It's going to the opposite end of the spectrum. Because the more that you add energy to your mind, the greater the conflict is going to be. You're just pumping energy into this existing pattern of conflict in your mind. I won't fight it.

I won't fight it anymore. I will play that episode of Camp Laslo that's been in my head. It's going to be tough because your entire life, you have learned, your mind has become habituated to fighting it. Yeah, it's so bad. It's all I think about. So it's, I'll think about it even while I'm streaming.

I'm like, why am I not? Like, everyone's like, watch a video and everyone's like, oh, but this happened, this video and this.

I'm like, but misgift, bro, do you get it? So you say that I do this all the time. My mind does it all the time. exactly why do you think you can't be present ever the two go hand in hand yeah what are you fighting in your mind when you take a piss when your bladder is full nothing there's your presence

so from now on instead of trying to fight this just relax and i'll relax and i'll i'll understand i will be instead of fighting it, I will go with it, which is the exact opposite. Which is why I've never been able to enjoy it. So instead of fighting, why can't I? Embrace it because it's never going to change. I'm 25 years old and I obviously have never, it's never been able to change.

Embrace the fact that I can't be present and just not be present. Be the guy in the movie theater that's sitting there. Be the guy that's watching everybody else. It is what it is. And that is the most present that I'll be able to feel is because that, is who I am, right?

Yes, beautiful. But toys would be good. Yeah. So I want you to draw an eyeball at the top right of your board. Yeah, it doesn't have to be so far up, but sure. Okay. So this is the other thing I want you to notice is that this eyeball is looking at your mind. Right?

So layers one through five and layers one through three. There is an observing capacity. The eyeball is the dude in the theater. Do you understand that? Yeah. So what I want you to do is sit with the eyeball. Sit with the dude in the theater. And then, Miskiff, I'm going to let you in on a huge secret bro.

You're watching the one movie where you can actually taste a little bit of the sushi. Hmm. That sounds nice. Right? Now be careful because you can fall into the same trap with relaxing. You said, I'm just going to relax. Because then when you try to relax, What are you going to do to yourself?

What's your mind trained to do? Freak out? Yes. It's going to say, oh my God, Ms. Kiff, I should be relaxing. Why can't I relax? God damn it. Relax. So then what you sit with is, oh, look, this guy on the screen is freaking the fuck out because he can't chill.

This fucking, dude sucks for him. Yeah. Oh, you're right. So I got to focus this eye, which is me. And then hopefully more the toys. I do think the toys really do help. Something to fidget with really does make a massive difference. Yep.

Yep. Yep. And I think that's really good. I think that actually will help me a lot. One thing I've also noticed that helps a lot with my deep personalization or not feeling like I'm really there in the moments is touch. Like I will literally sometimes like I, I, so I was with my brother. And you know what? You're actually 100% right.

I was at my brother's house in Jersey. and I was trying to force myself to enjoy the moment because I'm so ADHD that I was like, fuck, I am not enjoying this moment as much as I should. I should be relaxing with my brother that I haven't seen in so long and just hang out with them.

And I couldn't do that because the whole time I'm thinking to myself, fuck, I need to relax, which resulted in me messing with the waves and not enjoying it. And what I've noticed, just what helped me a little bit is when I touched the railing at his house, this can sound so weird.

But I started touching his railing, that sounded really weird. And when I held on the railing, the touch of something actually made me, he's not my stepbrow, don't worry. The touch of the railing made me come back a little bit to reality. And I also think that it was not just the touch, maybe feel more in the present, but it It was also kind of counting as a toy because it was like, yeah, it almost goes to that toy factor, which made me feel more present. Yeah. So this is exactly because the touch is an alumina.

What happens is when you touch and you focus on the touch, the excess energy of your mind goes into your sense of touch instead of fueling your conflict. Yeah. And the moment you stop fueling your internal conflict, you start to feel better. Yeah. So just embrace it. Right. And yeah, I think the thing with the relaxing is true. Because I think a lot of people in general, and me too as well, I'll be sitting there

being like, oh, time to relax. But like, I'll almost be like, oh, my God, I only have two hours to relax. And I have to start, then you start freaking out. You're like, fucking out of relax. Yep. Yep. If I don't go to sleep now, I'm going to be tired in the morning. Oh, fuck. I better go to sleep now.

Yeah. If I sleep now, I'll still get four hours of sleep. Oh, fuck. Now I'm not even going to get four hours of sleep. Yep. It's tension fuels the conflict of the mind. A relaxed mind. And a relaxed mind happens through acceptance.

So don't get me wrong, Ms. Kiff, what I'm telling you to do in a sit with the eye is very hard. Yeah. This is why. And it's actually fascinating to hear you say this because there are literally books on meditation, which describe all these techniques that you have discovered. Closing of the eyes. reducing your, because you've done both where you reduce your sensory input and you focus your sensory input on one thing.

And I would venture that when you touch the railing, you see less. And that if you touch the, yeah, it's cool. Like, Ms. Giff, I don't think you're cursed. I think you're gifted. It's just the problem is that you just don't know it yet. Oh, I know I'm gifted for sure. I mean, I know there's a gift with ADHD.

ADHD is a blessing and a curse. It's a double-ed sword. I mean, you're definitely a more creative person. Your mind is definitely all over the place and you get more creative and you're more sporadic and all and all that jazz. But there's a curse to it too where it's your own worst enemy and you're constantly having to deal with these problems. Yeah. So I think that it's a good way of looking at it because I think at the end of the day there's no such thing as a gift and there's no such thing as a curse. You just are what you are.

It is what it is. Right. And if we kind of extend that thinking, you know, you are what you are. And if you can't enjoy the sushi, you can't enjoy the sushi sucks for you. Yeah. So be it. I'm never having sushi again. Why not?

Can't enjoy it. Well, I can't enjoy it. Because like you said, it is true. It's not like I'm like tasting the sushi and I'm like there's nothing. There's no taste. But it's like not as much as like how much everyone else experiences it. They feel like they're fully there. I feel like I'm like 10% there, 15%.

Whenever, what else is like, oh, wow, this is so good. I'm like, missing the point, Miskif. You've got to have sushi and not enjoy it. If you never have sushi again, you're not accepting it. Yeah, you're right. Never having sushi again is sitting firmly within layer one of your mind. You see that? Yeah.

You've got to order it and not enjoy it. Do you want to see my presentation? Hell yeah, baby You don't, it's terrible This is like something that someone with ADHD made I'm telling you. It looks really bad. Yeah, this is ADHD intrusive,

but this actually really helped me out a lot. I do feel I feel like it's going to be hard for some people to understand this but it makes perfect sense to me. It's like I am the eye and these are all my layers of thoughts. I have some random song playing in my head. I have Camp Laslo's

theme song playing. I have Mitch Jones dancing, you know, all these layers of things that feel like a kaleidoscope is constantly in my head and I'm never going to be able to change that ever. And toys do help for sure. But the number one problem with the number one layer is me questioning

why this is happening. Why can't I be present? And what Dr. K is saying is you know, to, in order to understand, yeah, you can't be present. You're never going to be able. Fighting, it's only going to make it worse. You might as well ride the wave that you have.

You're not going to ever be that fully present person. It's just not going to happen. You have ADHD. It is what it is. Go with it rather than fight it. Because if you fight it, it's only going to make it worse. Not only you're going to have a layer of why can't I be present, you're going to be having a, like, you know, trying to fight these waves, which is impossible

to do. Just like last time, this gift. Beautiful summary. I literally could not have said that better myself. And the problem is, you know, it's not a problem. But I already forgot what I said. But you know what? I think that's okay.

So this is my favorite part of interviews with you, Ms. Kiff, is like, we've been at this now for an hour and a half. We have. Yeah. Where was your attention there? Honestly, ever since I started grabbing this and ever since I started doing this, it's been much more here. Yep. well played sir yeah you can get there so the first thing that i want you to appreciate misgipper the last thing i suppose so i think it's a great summary i don't think we should you know keep talking

because i think you did it is that attention can fluctuate right yeah so you're talking about being yep and so like we don't know if you can ever be fully present but we know you can get more present and that's enough. We're not going to attach ourselves to being fully present because that's going to create an expectation. It's going to create tension in the mind. It's going to create disappointment. Yeah.

But it's making it go backwards rather than even remotely forwards. But we can have hope because today you've demonstrated to us that you've figured out some ways for your mind to be more present. And we absolutely start with the toy because that's the first step. And this last thing that I think I'm telling you, that's the last step. It's the most difficult step. Yeah. But it's the one that once you learn how to do that, you're fucking set, bro.

I agree. Now, last thing, I don't think we should talk about it today. But I would encourage you to think a little bit about one more thing, which is if we ever do, you know, if we talk again in a year. This whole thing about you forgetting everything and whether there really is something to you forgetting. you know, did you need to learn how to forget? I don't know. I don't think so. I think the problem with me forgetting a lot is just when I was a kid,

all I thought about was what's the next joke? So I was never really present. Okay. It's not even that I forgot. It was never even in my mind because I never really was enjoying the present because of a lot of these layers. And you could add another layer, which is trying to make a joke. And because of that, I never really got to enjoy moments.

I was more so focusing on what do people think of me? You know, what's the next thing I could say? Do these guys like hanging out with me? Do these guys think I'm fun? What can I do to make them more involved or like me more? Rather than thinking to myself of, wow, this is fun to hang out with and this is fun to do, it was more so be thinking about trying to make sure that everyone was enjoying my presence. Yeah.

Yeah. I thought of that before. Yeah, I think we've talked a little bit about it, Rungabelle. but cool man any last questions for me or any other thoughts no you're doing a great job bro so are you we love what you do oh my god someone is gifting just shit loads of subs yeah i got a twitch prime about 12 minutes ago so we're on the same boat what nothing i think you have ADHD no dude like someone just gifted like 200 subs to oh really yeah it's this subject he's a non Anonymous gifters, man.

And then everyone is talking about dodged. And then someone donated 100 subs. And then people were like dodged, dodge, dodged. And then this guy, or I assume it's the same person. I don't know if it's the same person. And then they gifted another 100. Jesus Christ. Yeah, I got a 12 months of about two minutes ago.

Yeah. So we're both, we're doing really well. And we should be proud of ourselves. I'm proud of you, bro. Looks like your furniture's here. Chompy? I don't know where he is. No, that's not my friend.

It's my girlfriend. Kind of similar. Tell her I said hello. Mai says hi. She says hello. Yeah, I learned a lot. I'm going to get the toys. And I'm going to try.

I know what to do. I'm not going to try to fight it because I totally agree with you. And it's by far the worst layer is when I try to fight it. It is the worst layer. when I try to fight this problem I had, it almost shadows all the other thoughts and just me thinking why can't I enjoy the moment. So I'm going to stop doing that.

And I'm just going to enjoy them and try and embrace the fact that I can. And I'm going to get a toy and just, it's a beginning. And hopefully from there, maybe I start meditating, do yoga. I do think working out definitely has helped me a lot. I need to start doing that for sure.

and that sounds like a great idea. But yeah, I think those things probably will help out. But it's a start. You can't. Because like what you said, you can't go to 100%. It's not going to happen. You have to take time and slowly get results. So, yeah.

And if you don't have a set of prayer beads and you decide that you want to go down that road, let me know and I'll send you a pair. Okay. Okay. If I can't find something good that I like as a toy, I'll just ask for the pair beads. Ball is in your court, bro. Okay, so you let me know. Okay. Well, thanks a lot, man. This was, as always, phenomenal. Phenomenal. Thank you, Dr. Kay. I appreciate you. Help me a lot. I think you're gifted at explaining, actually, which makes this fun for me. You're gifted at listening and you're gifted at explaining. So it's cool.

It's fun to see. I don't know. I think if you go back and you watch the VOT, I think that your diagram is going to make a lot more sense than I think you've been taught that, you know, People can't understand your mind, but I think it's actually a very eloquent way of describing your mind. So thank you for doing that. Oh, thanks. Take care, man. All right. Bye, Dr. Kay. Adios, dude.

Dude, that guy's next level, man. I'm serious.