HealthyGamerGG - Finding Happiness Despite Bad Circumstances ft. Sweet Anita

Episode Date: July 12, 2020

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How, so how are you doing? I'm all right, yeah. I haven't slept in quite a while, but otherwise doing all right. What's up with that? I don't know. So I started, I started paying a little bit more close attention to my health. Good for you. But I've been logging it because I have a planner.

Nothing happens unless I write it down because I've got bad memory problems. So I write what I've been eating, how much caffeine I'm having. how much you've slept, that sort of thing. And there's only one day this week where I actually slept. I tried to take a nap on another day. I think I lasted an hour and a half maybe. But yeah, I don't know why. I'm just not sleeping.

What is it that keeps you from sleeping? Busy. Like you're so busy that you literally do not sleep? Yeah. What are you doing? Your dad. He's good. Sorry.

He's not good. I've been, I've been just getting on with my life. I mean, since the, since the, since the, since the, since the, since the, since the, since the, since the, since the, since, since, since, since, since, since, since, since, since, since, since, since, since, it's not been, we haven't been able to get carers out to my mum. So I've been a bit more busy taking care of her as well as, you know, running a stream, running a YouTube, um, taking care of rescue animals. Um, a lot of the charities that take on animals right now are understaffed because of COVID. So I'm getting a lot more people come to me when they have injured animals. So yeah, I've just been busy, very, very, very, very busy. And weirdly, I feel more okay than I should be at this point.

I feel like now I should be like really, really sleepy, but I'm okay. Yeah, I'm concerned about you, Anita. I used to be worried about this sort of thing, but I've actually grown quite used to it. I'm kind of a burnout queen. even before I streamed, life used to get like this every now and again. And weirdly, I'd always pull through. So I wouldn't worry too much because I'm pretty sure I'm going to be fine. Yeah, so is it okay for me to be worried about you if you're even if you're going to be fine?

Well, then what's the point? Seems like a waste of worry. Well, because I'm concerned that, so you're saying you're going to be fine. Let's accept that for a second. but what worries me is that like what you're shooting for is fine survival right and what i would want for you is more than survival i guess i guess uh i'm very a very very very very very very very very i'm very much more comfortable being busy yep um and tired then still so for me this is this is okay. It's difficult, but it's okay. Is it okay if I, is there something in particular you want to

talk about today, by the way? I didn't make any plans. I'm quite notorious for that. Perfect. So, yeah, I'm free to talk about whatever. You and me both. Right. So then can we talk a little bit about, I'm curious if it would be useful to talk about like why stillness feels uncomfortable for you. Sure. Yeah. What feels uncomfortable about being still? Why do you guys? to be moving all the time. I guess for a lot of reasons. I mean, I feel a lot of guilt if I stay still. I feel like I'm wasting time and letting people down.

But also, it's been my coping mechanism for difficult. So if I am in a situation where I am not very comfortable, like emotionally, if there's something that's been going on, I just keep busy. because then I can only give enough time to face it in increments, which allows me to face it without it hitting me too hard. And so I think in part it becomes a coping mechanism for adversity, I guess. Sure. And that sounds pretty important because it sounds like maybe if you let it hit you all at once, it would be overwhelming.

Yeah, true. So it sounds like it's a pretty important coping mechanism. Yeah, I think it's working out. I mean, I used, I was, I was, I don't know if you know this, but I used to be depressed for 13 years. I didn't. So, yeah, I had, I had, I had a difficult background. I remember. Yeah.

So obviously, I think it's kind of natural to not be happy about that, but I did have really, very severe depression for 13 years. I had a severe social phobia and anxiety, which is understandable, especially when I didn't have a diagnosis. and it was kind of scary to interact with people because I never knew how that was going to go. So, yeah, I don't think it was so much a failing or anything. I think it was just kind of a normal reaction to the situation I was in. What was a normal reaction?

I'm sorry? To be depressed. I said about it. And yeah. But luckily, I got out of that. And even though, you know, maybe not living the most conventional life, I'm pretty happy.

I don't feel depressed. I don't feel down. I don't wake up feeling kind of bad about the day. I feel quite excited about what's going to happen next. That sounds awesome. Yeah. So like even though it may on the outside seem very uncomfortable, it's actually really working for me to just stay busy and keep moving.

Yeah. So that makes a lot of sense. Can I just tell you what I heard? So it sounds like you were depressed for a while. You had somewhat of a tough upbringing. You had some social phobias and you kind of managed to. get out of that somehow. And now maybe when you're dealing with, as you put it, adversity or there are some kinds of emotions that you're experiencing, staying busy is like a really good way of coping with it.

And I'm not hearing that you're really like suppressing or anything. It sounds like you genuinely find enjoyment in what you do. You're not like necessarily blocking things out or things like that. It's just like you wake up every day. You're pretty happy about what you do. You care. for people and animals that you love and you make the world a better place. And it kind of helps you feel fulfilled and happy. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that makes sense to me.

I think the only thing that's a little bit confusing for me is that like if you're still, then guilt happens. Right? So it sounds to me like I just have trouble reconciling those two things in your mind, in my mind, that, you know, there can be sort of happiness and fulfillment. But it sounds to me like if you're still and there's guilt and there's a feeling of letting people down, then maybe there is a little bit of, well, I don't know if suppression is the right word,

because it sounds like what you do is you kind of manage it in your own way over time, right? That's the way that you deal with it is you kind of take chunks and then you kind of process a little bit and then chunks and then process a little bit. But I can't help but here. So it sounds like it's a formula. works for you. Yeah, I mean, it can land me in a lot of trouble. How so? Well, it means I'm slow to anger. One of the disadvantages of having Tourette's syndrome is a lot of people don't know. You get tick emotions, so I will get out of context joy or out of context anger. And the thing is, when you get a surge of emotion, it's quite natural

for your brain to try and rationalize that. So if you get a rage, if you get a surge of rage, you're like, it's because of this and it could be something stupid. Like, I don't know, there's a scuff on the table. Your brain tries to rationalise things it doesn't really understand. So if you have an incomprehensible way of emotion, you try to contextualize it. And the way I've managed that

so that I don't rage out at people or just be really sad and burst in tears over nothing is I sit beside my emotions, become detached from them, and watch them as if I'm an observer, like a scientist documenting a feeling. So I'm like, wow, my heart rate has fed up. I can feel a tingle in my teeth.

My fingers have gone cold. I can feel my brain like rushing towards this kind of thought and that kind of thought. And I sit beside it and listen to it and make sense of it and go, is this a tick or is this a genuine feel? And this means that I have a delay in my anger, which means that when people are inappropriate towards me, I don't immediately react the way that I should. And I don't necessarily get to safety or challenge the situation in the way that I should because I question whether or not I should be mad and I need time to figure that out. And so someone might not figure out that they've been disrespectful or that they need to stop the certain behaviour. I don't really communicate that unless it's in a very delayed sense quite often, which puts me in danger and has done, fairly recently even.

And so, yeah, it does have disadvantages. But I feel like it's a side effect of growing up with Tourette's because a lot of children especially have difficulties with, like, especially tick rage. But I've managed to be a very calm person by managing my emotions in this way. But yeah, it means that because I deal with my emotions and increments and I make sense of them, especially adversity, I end up taking like weeks sometimes to figure out how I feel about things. And that delay can definitely be a disadvantage at times. Hmm. Your thoughts seem very well formed.

Thanks. I don't know how. The time. has lost all meaning at this point. I'm pretty tired. Yeah. I can hear that you've thought about it a lot or analyzed it a lot or really spent a lot of time trying to understand yourself and trying to figure out how to manage some of your internal environment. I think I'm just listening to my monologue. I think I'm just listening. I don't know that I've necessarily put a lot of time into it. I mean, I always get this thing where people tell me it sounds like I've rehearsed what I say on stream or that I've written it down or I've thought it through a lot and I haven't usually I'm just formulating that on the spot. I think it's it's not so much that I'm putting lots and lots of energy into figuring

stuff out. It's just that I'm genuinely listening to myself. Yeah, that that's interesting to hear because it does sound well thought out. It sounds, you know, so even even a few you're not consciously thinking about it, I think one of the consequences of observation is understanding. And what I'm hearing from you is that you understand yourself quite well and you've noticed different patterns that you have. You've noticed different strategies you've used to cope with tarrats and situations. And the interesting thing, Anita, and I don't know if this is, I kind of don't know exactly what we're talking about today, but let me tell you what I'm seeing, if that's okay. So, you know, it sounds like you've been dealt a very unique hand of cards in life.

And you've learned certain strategies to manage those hands, that hand of cards, how to play that hand. And you've done a really good job of playing the hand of cards that you've been dealt. And so one of, like, as you mentioned, like one example of this is that you've learned how to just look at your emotions and not kind of give in to them. And the problem with your strategy, though, is that it sounds like sometimes for the most, part, it works really well, and it's allowed you to be successful and functional in this world, but that there are some kind of cracks at the seams. And I've heard you say some words that still concern me. And so you said something about, you know, like burnout is sort of what you do. Like, so that doesn't sound like a great strategy to me. You know, there's there's the sense of guilt

and letting people down if you sit still, if you sit still. And then lastly, use the word danger. sometimes the way that you distance yourself from emotions leads you to danger. And that's scary. Like, I don't know, I mean, because you're so articulate, granted, you may not have thought things out, you're maybe thinking them through as you speak. But that's a powerful word. And I'm just not quite sure how to understand or how to think about, you know, a system that seems to work so well and allow you to help so many people, but then also tosses out words from your head, like guilt, letting people down,

being unable to sit still, getting yourself into danger, and burnout. Pros and cons. Yeah. Definitely. It has a lot of really powerful upsides for me, but also a lot of powerful downsides.

I mean, to give you some scope of what my life looks like right now, I think if I genuinely described it, I think a lot of chat would assume that I'm not very, happy or that it's be difficult to be happy in my circumstances. Let's hear about it. I'd love to if you're okay with that. Okay. I'm worried.

I'm a little bit scared. This is a tentative situation. You see, if I start listing the things that I find difficult in life, there are going to be a bunch of people who hear this who think I'm fishing for pity. So I'm always very nervous about describing my life in detail. because yeah Can we talk about that for a second? Sure

Why would you think that people think you're fishing for pity? Because people I've noticed a reaction in people in real life and on the internet that if someone seems vulnerable people are afraid of being manipulated

it's one of the hardest things to come up against is someone with Tourette's or any kind of disability on stream is that that people are afraid of being manipulated. And so, you know, I get lots of people saying that I'm the next zillion op and things like this. And I am always... What does that mean?

There was once a streamer who... I don't know much about it. I wasn't on Twitch when it happened. But as far as I know, there was a streamer who pretended to have a disability in order to get donations for years, accidentally stood up on camera, even though he was claiming to have a wheelchair. I think that was what happened. Am I right?

Chat? I'm sure there are some veterans here who know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so basically he forgot his camera was still on and stood up. And yeah, it came to light that, yeah, perhaps he might have been overplaying his condition. Although I'm not sure. I mean, people don't flat check on Twitch.

And I do know that some people who need a wheelchair can stand up, but can't stand up for long periods of time. for example. So I don't know whether it was genuinely that he didn't have a disability or that people just expected a disability to present in a specific way and got outraged when he stood up. I don't know. But anyway, people quote that and they're like kind of accusing me of being fake all the time because yeah, people are scared of being kind and empathetic and people are scared of being used. And so when when people talk about their hardships, I've certainly noticed a trend of not being met with kind of empathy, but rather suspicion. And so it's very, very scary to put your difficulties,

to lay them out on the table sometimes because... Do you think you're deserving a pity? No. I think I'm doing all right. I think I'm pretty happy with the fact that I managed to live the life that I do and do as much as I do, despite everything. I think that's a point. I feel really good about that.

Would you be okay if you were deserving a pity? I'd prefer empathy to pity. I don't really feel like I need pity, but I think that, you know, if people want to empathize with my situation, I think that's just natural. I empathize with people who have facing stuff. I think that's normal.

So how would you describe the difference between pity and empathy? Pity is when you're glad you're not someone. And empathy is when you feel with someone. It's a great way to put it. So you're concerned that you will be perceived as fishing for pity? As in people, that if I openly discuss everything that people will disbelieve me, or think that I'm trying to manipulate them. So can I offer a reason why I think this is an important discussion?

Sure. So I think that people assume that their circumstances are primarily responsible for their happiness or unhappiness. Does that make sense? Did you say that again? Yeah. So people assume that their circumstances are responsible for their happiness or their unhappiness. One of the most mind-boggling things that I've discovered is that certainly circumstances influence, your happiness or unhappiness.

But one of the most shocking things is that sometimes people can be in bad circumstances and it can be happy. And sometimes people can be in good circumstances and be unhappy. Yep. And generally speaking, the internet loves to get their pitchforks out when there is someone in good circumstances who is unhappy. And we sort of have this idea that circumstances, and I'm not saying that they don't influence happiness. There's data that suggests that certainly a certain amount of

financial security correlates with happiness or a sense of security. So I'm not saying that they're completely independent, but I think it could actually be useful for people to hear about your circumstances and then also hear how you're able to be happy in spite of them. Because that's an important lesson to learn. What do you think about that? We could do that. Okay, cool. So the other thing to just think a little bit about is, you know, we were talking earlier about your strategy and how there are pros and cons. And I wonder whether it's worthwhile, like, discussing are there other ways or are there ways to deal with the cons of your strategy?

Yeah. Because that would be helpful. Can I just speak plainly for a second? Uh-huh. So based on our last conversation, like, I don't know what you remember about it. but I remembered a couple of things. And I think you generally speaking, don't place yourself high enough

on the priority list of what's important. And that's just something that I had a takeaway from last time. And I know that you're an amazing person and you make the world a better place. It's just there's a part of me that feels, and this is a judgment, and I apologize if this offends you, that you should try to make the world a better place for you

from time to time. and that's one of the big cons of your strategy that actually makes me sad is because like it bothers me when someone can't sit still because they feel guilty and like they're letting other people down that just bothers me um and i i i'm trying i don't know if that's sympathy or empathy i'm not quite sure but you know it makes me sad to think that and this is going to be an exaggeration this could be unfair but i'm going to say it anyway um this is how to I feel. It makes me sad to imagine you being unable to be happy with yourself unless you're doing something for someone else. So I leave it up to you in terms of which direction we go.

Okay. And if you need me to recap a couple of options, I'm happy to. Yeah, let's, what's the two options? Okay. So the couple of options, one are, so the two big options are to hear a little bit about, you know, how your life is hard and then to explore a little bit about, you know, how your life is hard. And then to explore a little bit about how you can be happy in spite of difficult circumstances. Right? So to paint a pitiable picture, which is what you're afraid of, but then also like realize that actually we don't have to pity you because you're happy. And how do you find that happiness despite being in circumstances that other people

may pity? Because that's huge. Like if we can understand that, like that's going to help tons of people. Could be the most helpful thing that we ever discover on stream, which is how to be. Okay. So tell us about your circumstances. Okay. So I have an autoimmune disorder. I think about six or seven times a day at least. When I do make the time to sleep, I wake up several times drowning

because everyone else, when they have fluid running down the back of their throat all day, like there's saliva and stuff, it goes somewhere. But for me, it doesn't, and I choke on it, and I kind of wake up with burning lungs. I am at a high risk of pneumonia, aspirational pneumonia, and long scarring. So I'm in pain whenever I try to sleep, I don't get a good night's sleep, and I am constantly vomiting. I'm tired. Some days I won't be able to eat for a few days because my body just decides that it's

not going to let any food in and that I'm just going to be sick every time I try to get something into my stomach. I try to get on basic things, and I have a lot of as well. possibilities, but they're difficult because sometimes my ticks get in the way and I'll throw things on the floor, I'll smash things. I'll burn myself trying to cook. I'll try to feed the rabbits and just through the food everywhere. I'll, you know, I'll punch myself in the face. I'll, and I'll be so tired and busy. And even when I try to sleep, I can't. So sometimes I'll be getting home with something and I'll just fall asleep out of nowhere and I'll wake up next to my grasshoppers or whatever. And this is the thing. Like it's really hard. it's really annoying. I've tried to have housemates because I choke on my food a lot, and if nobody's here when that happens really badly, I might not be here anymore. But the thing is, whenever I get flatmates, it goes bad. Like, people hit on me a lot.

I've tried having women, as in, like, I'm scared of sounding very vain. I don't necessarily consider myself particularly attractive person, but everyone I ever live with ends up getting weird and, like, stealing, my underwear or secretly filming me or trying to coerce me into things and it happens even if they're female and I've been trying to figure out what the problem is and not really getting that one right so I live on my own now and yeah it's risky can I jump in with a what the fuck I know I mean I know it's annoying but yeah I you have no idea this the things the things the things recently, so I had four or five friends.

I need a second, sorry. Like, what the fuck, Anita? Yeah, I know. But what can you do? People just steal your, like your flatmates steal your underwear? That's a routine occurrence for your flatmates? It's happened with multiple flatmates, yes, and friends. Is there something that we just don't understand about your underwear?

If so, then it's something I also don't understand about my underwear. This is like the bathwater thing. Like I just don't understand some of these things. But maybe there's something that we don't get about what is happening right now. But yeah, that's really bizarre. My best guess is pheromones is all. Like, that's my best guess. That's actually a damn good guess.

Interesting. Okay. Sorry to derail you. I just, I could. I literally could not listen to the rest of what you were saying because my mind had a great big what the fuck bouncing around in there. Yeah. So I have friends who tried to rush to help me, who genuinely try to support me.

But it often goes awry. One of my flatmates kept cooking me food and then it turned to leaving chocolates in my bed and then alcohol and then doing loads of favors for me and then secretly filming me. one day I transferred some, he let me use his laptop to transfer some files and I accidentally deleted them. So I immediately went into the recycling folder and opened the first folder, thinking it would be the one that was most recently deleted, right? No, it was a motivation, it was a folder marked motivation with just loads of pictures of me that he'd taken off various social media with my ex-boyfriend cropped out of them.

And I was like, ah, this might be time to run. But like, it got creepier from that. How do you feel when you open that? ugh, like, it's happened to me a few times, so like, I just feel this gut sinking, oh, not again, and it becomes a dangerous situation. And I have this to contend with whilst trying to run my life and keep up with everything and just try to stay well. And yeah, it just puts a lot of strain on me.

When that happened, I stopped coming home for like a month. I just went out and did rescue work and stayed in my office working and just got really busy and just avoided the house because that got really bad. At one point he said that if I ever got a boyfriend, he'd make me homeless. So yeah, I kind of feel like I end up in these situations a lot. I keep, everyone goes, why do you, what kind of people are you hanging out with? And they just blame me. But my friends hang out with these people too and don't see it coming and always think that they're nice people and that everything will be fine. Some people say I should hang out with women, but one of the worst cases of this ever happening to me was a woman, and it was this year.

So, like, I don't know. I don't know what to do about it, but friendships are difficult for me, because so many of them go weird like that. And so I end up on my own and struggling, and lots of people are like, why don't you ask me for help? And it's like, because I'm afraid. Everyone I pull closer, everyone I spend time with a lot tends to get strange. And so I am coping with this alone and it can get a bit overwhelming and very busy.

I'll have 30 or 40 things on my list. I can see why you spend so much time with animals. Right? But yeah, I think my mom is another part of it all. Like she has a lot of illnesses going on. We fought for 20-something years to get a diagnosis because she was progressively getting more ill. She would put her hand out to help me cross the road when I was little and just walk us out in front of a car. Not because she wanted us to come to harm, but because she'd have absences. She'd

constantly burn food and nearly burn the house down. She'd flood the house trying to run herself a bath. And in the end, I just ended up taking care of a lot of stuff when I was really little because to not do so, it was pretty dangerous. To leave it up to my mum was pretty dangerous. My dad was a bit, I don't know, out of it and not really there much. And to be honest, I'm kind of glad. I'm kind of He went to hold my hand across the road, another cross the road story, and he still had a cigarette in my hand, and I have a little burn on my hand because he just accidentally burned me. He was a bit absent-minded. Not because there's anything, he wasn't ill or anything. He's just absent-minded. So to be honest, I was happier looking after my mom. And, yeah, that's who I stayed with out of the two after they split. And, yeah, I've been looking after her, and it's been pretty intense. The doctors weren't sure what was wrong with her. They suspected something neurological. At one point, they said that she might not have long to live

and that all of the symptoms were indicating something very serious and to prepare for very bad news. Took some brain scans and then didn't tell her what was going on for like months. And during that time, it was really difficult because we didn't know how long she was going to be around. She, they just, she kept going in. They didn't believe her. And she ended up with a tumour so large and attached to so many organs

that removing it would cause more symptoms. then leaving it now. And she had a disease for so long that it caused brain and organ damage alongside that that could have been cured with a bit of medication within a week of her getting it and she'd have been fine. You said tumor? Yeah. I think it's, I guess tumor is a kind of very dramatic word.

What's the thing? What's the thing? fibroid endometriosis. There we go. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so it's grown and grown and grown and grown off her room and just connect everything inside her. And the only way to remove it now

would be to remove several other organs. So not worth it anymore, but the side effects of it being there are quite bad. Yeah, she's in a lot of pain. She's barely out of bed. It's pretty serious now. There's nothing we can do. So, yeah, those two things.

And trying to push for a diagnosis, her constantly reporting pain, me constantly going to the hospital with her, going to the doctors with her, having some really awful events. I remember when I was little, I stood in the corner of the room while the paramedics resuscitated her. And there was just nothing I could do. And there was one of the, one of the medics was just making me look at him instead of my mom and just talking to me and just keeping me talking.

Because he obviously didn't, if it was going to be her last moment, he didn't want me to watch her to die. So yeah, it's been a struggle and scary because the main foundation of my life, the most constant human I have in my life, every day I don't know whether she's still going to be here. And that's been the case for so long. And it's a really precarious place to be because everyone else around me comes and goes. And sometimes because of really bad things. I mean, one of my best friends became a stalker.

He, yeah, he assaulted me. He slept in my back garden. He watched the house. He chased me whenever I left the house. Some people had from a shop had to intervene and hold him down because he just, yeah. So basically, the only person I have in my life is someone I don't know how long I'll get to have. And it's scary. And I feel bad as well because I'm so busy, taking care of so many animals and trying to keep up with everything. that sometimes I'm rushed with her and I'm like, hi, okay, I'll do all the things, bye, and I feel so bad because I want to, you know, I want to have these conversations. I want to sit with her, I want to spend more time with her. I do whenever I can, but whenever it's rushed, I feel terrible because I don't know, you know, is mom going to be okay next week? Is this going to be my last week? Do I get a few more months? Do I get a few more years? What? What's going to happen?

Hmm. What's that, what's that like? most of the time I don't think about it. And I just take each day as I'm... Something you're very good at. I just feel like worrying about it won't change whether or not it happens. It just mean I suffered twice. So I just focus on being grateful for the moments I do get instead of writing about the moments I might not get.

Yeah, it also... I mean, that also sounds like something that you're good at, which is that you don't really let yourself feel certain things. because there's no utility to them. True, but you might start to think that I maybe bury these emotions, that maybe they're there causing a lot of havoc, but being unaddressed,

because that's usually how people don't do those emotions is that they just don't acknowledge that they're there. A lot of people who don't think they're particularly emotional are usually emotional wrecks, who just can't see their emotions rather than them not being there. But with me, genuinely, I just have this thing where I can just be like, nah, and I just invest my energy and my thoughts

into other ways of feeling and processing. Like, genuinely, I don't have like some, some, like, I don't know how to describe it, like unseen sadness about the situation. I really, I just feel lucky that mum is here today. Sure. It sounds like you're, I mean, I'm getting a lot of genuine gratitude from you. I'm kind of curious, Anita, how would you know whether they're doing what you're doing or whether the emotional wreck is just buried deeper? How can you tell the difference?

I guess because I have repressed emotions in the past and it comes with a very specific sensation and feel. Okay. So if so that's how you know your sense. not doing it. So you, you, because you're saying basically, I know what suppressed emotions feel like. And I used to do that. I've learned now not to do it. And it sounds to me like you're practicing some amount of detachment as opposed to suppression.

Like you acknowledge the emotion, you recognize it's there. And then you sit with it for a little bit. And then you kind of choose to focus on other things, which is not quite like denial, right? It's sort of like acknowledgement, but separation as opposed to like sticking it in the basement and pretending like it doesn't exist. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So in recent, this recent, recent, oh, can you see that behind me? Can you see my rabbit?

Just like. I saw something move. Yeah, my rabbits escaped. I'll be right back. He destroys why. I have to address that right away. Thanks for waiting. Sure.

I think they want to see the rabbit, but... Oh, I can grab him if you like. He's only in the kitchen. He's in the next room. He doesn't mind. Yeah, I'll get him. Oh, wow, that's a big rabbit. No, I'm just small.

Everyone says that, but he's actually quite a small species of rabbits. I'm only five foot two, so everything looks big. Like, sometimes I'll lift up a normal size cup and people are like, where can I get that giant cup from? The rabbit is a boy rabbit or a girl rabbit? He's a he. I actually, so I spotted him in a rescue center upcountry. And me and a friend traveled all day to go and get him.

I thought he'd make a really good husband for my lonely girl because her partner died and I didn't think that she should have to live alone. So I went out to get him thinking they'd get on like a house on fire, but they don't really like each other. So I'm still, I've been working on it for a year trying to get to love one another and it's a really hard matchmaking process. I can imagine. I can imagine that some of your former roommates feel the same way.

Was that out of line? I'm sorry, was that a dick thing to say? No, it's fine. I'm still, my mind is still boggled by the pheromones. People sniff me a lot, like, in public and everything. What the fuck? Yeah. They sniff you in public?

Mm-hmm. So, like, it will be like, I, have a friend we're not attracted to each other whatsoever one time we got really really drunk and we all just fell asleep in a line adjacent on the sofa watching this movie like um there'll be situations where like i'll wake up to someone asleep humping me like with their clothes on and i'm just like god damn fairerones and i'll just get up and move away like i get all of these sorts of situations all the time and it's so annoying um but yeah like people sniff me people stalk me people get weird.

And yeah, basically, it's a whole thing. Like, I have thousands of stories. I just don't know what to do with it anymore. How do you understand why this happens to you? I don't understand why this happens to me. I don't understand why. I just understand that it does.

And that, you know, I've just grown exasperated with it, honestly. So it does sound quite exhausting. I'm curious, do you have any other emotions that come up when you find people have been stealing your underwear or stalking you or anything like that besides exasperation no at this point i just feel tired because i don't want to presume that it's going to happen again it feels vain to presume that every single person that i ever make friends with is just going to fall in love with me and turn into a menace and so i always give people the chance and i always give people the benefit of the doubt and you know i assume that it's going to be different this time

and I always give the speech where I'm like, I am not attracted to my friends. I am very obvious with my emotions. If I'm attracted to someone, I will let them know. I hate people who come on to me without me giving any signs. So I've had to dump a lot of friends because of this. And, you know, it's kind of like this big warning statement. It's kind of like a subtle, if you hit on me,

I'm going to run away kind of situation because I'm so used to it now. And it doesn't work. The statement doesn't work? No. I mean, It's just like this background noise to all of the other trouble I have is that I'd like to have friendships that don't end in disaster. I mean, one of my friends assaulted me. There was a witness.

Unfortunately, somebody else watched it happen. He was also a friend, and he did nothing. I tried to go to the police, the police did nothing. In fact, I had to report him for several other things that were relatively minor by comparison. for example you know sleeping in my back garden chasing me around

following me everywhere constantly trying to docks me on stream this sort of thing but then after they found out my view account and how many people knew that the police were failing me then they took action but he's still free

he's been charged but he's still free and yeah he still harasses me online from time to time and I'm pretty sure he probably will come back to the house again at some point because he always does. So, yeah, but he's one of men.

What do they see in you? I don't know. Genuinely don't know. It's not like I'm a pretty average person in most respects. I'm not like some supermodel that's just irresistible. So I genuinely don't know why this keeps happening to me. Well, there's something about you that clearly is irresistible. Like literally, like it is like not like there.

I mean, like it's, it sounds like people like can't stay away and sort of. it doesn't, I mean, it's strange, right? Because these are people that are able to have normal relationships with some of your other friends. But there's something different, pheromones. That, that, you know, and you were kind of saying that, like, your friends are sort of like, oh, you know, they think that everything's going to be okay, but they don't really understand. And, like, it's just a strange pattern. It is.

And, yeah. Do you have any idea? I don't. I've been trying to figure it out because I just want it to stop. Um, I, oh, you have no idea, like, I've had female friends, ah, uh, I've had female friends who've done this to me too. Um, uh, uh, I've had, like, I've got like three female friends who send me drunk messages where they come on to me and then apologize the next morning. And I'm just like, ah, I'd love to hang out with you, but, you know, I don't, on another thing that I have to start reporting to the police or any more drama and stuff. And like I, so I, it doesn't matter.

I try to watch for the pattern. Am I spending too much time with lonely people? But they could be really diverse. They can be really outgoing and have lots of friends and it still happens. They can be really popular and it still happens. They can have lots of really attractive friends to hit on and they still hit on me. I can set up boundaries and be really clear and they still do it. I get blamed as well.

People are like, what, like, what are you doing? They act like it's my fault. Like, they go, why do you hang out with strange people? And it's like, I don't know. Anita, I'm going to say something that may sound like blaming you, but, but please listen carefully. I know it sounds weird. But so here's what I'm hearing from you, okay?

And it's weird. So you've looked for patterns. A smart thing to do. Like, is it something about the way I find my roommate? am I on the wrong part of Craigslist where I'm looking instead of like looking for roommates I'm like looking for love. Am I posting in the wrong area? You know, and the interesting thing is that like if we think about it logically and you know, it seems to be independent of gender, it seems that these people are able to have normal relationships with other people. It seems to be that it's not like a particular ethnicity or like, you know, and there isn't some kind of overwhelming physical.

attractiveness or something like that, then, I mean, if it's not a factor with them, which is interestingly enough, that's what you've been saying, right? Is there's no pattern in terms of how I'm selecting people, then that sort of suggests that it's something with you. And I'm not trying to blame you. I'm just saying, like, the case that you're making is a really strong one, that it's something with you, right? That there is something.

And it's interesting, because I asked you earlier, like, why do people, you know, steal your underwear and you were saying like pheromans like that's not a them factor that's a you factor it's some a pheromone is sort of like i wonder if so i wonder if it's actually pheromones right which would be interesting um because if if you can get multiple women unclear what their sexual preferences or sexual orientation is but be especially interesting if they were actually heterosexual and they drunkenly message you um two of them all yeah so so so how do we like Like, that's weird, right? Like, so, so then I'm not blaming you, but at the same time, I'm saying that it seems like, you know, the common element doesn't have anything to do with them.

It has something to do with you. But then, like, I've tried changing my approach. There are some people who I've never met in person, who I've barely speak to. Sure. I think you've tried changing the things that you're aware of. Hmm. Right? So, like, the question is, what are the things that you do that you're not?

not aware of. And that's a hard question to answer because how are you supposed to know if you're not aware of them? Exactly. Fair. So let me ask you something, Anita. Do you feel like, like, I get a big sense of stickness from you. I get a sense that like you're kind of fucked either way. Like, you know, either you start taking, like, you can't stop working because then you're going to feel guilty and letting, like, you know, letting people down and the emotions will overwhelm you. But you can't keep working because then you're going to be burnt out and you're not going to be able to sleep and things like that. It's like damned if you do, damned if you don't. That's like a theme that I'm hearing. And like even when it comes to your mom, it's like you can try to spend more time with her.

You can try to not spend more time with her. Like either one sort of doesn't work. That she's really ill and she needs your support and she may be gone tomorrow. And I mean, it's kind of like there's like nothing you can do. And we hear, I hear that as well from from kind of, you know, roommates. It's like you try to have friends, and then it's like panty-sniffing backyard parties, and then, or you're by yourself, and then if you're by yourself, it's like you're going to choke on food, and you're actually like you could die. It's like, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Like, if there's one thing that I'm hearing from you, it's like, I don't see how you can make a choice because no choice is good.

Does that make sense? But I've chosen to live alone because I feel happier and safer. Sure, I can imagine. I mean, actually, I can't imagine because I've never felt the kind of danger that you were describing. I actually cannot imagine. I can try to imagine. But I can't even put my head in your head. What are you feeling right now?

Feeling okay? Yeah. Yeah. What are you feeling? Just sad and let down. I mean, just sad and let down by my friends, the ones that have turned weird, like the ones who risk prison to, like, do stupid stuff and ruin the friendship, the friends that would idly watch and pretend it's not happening until it's too late.

and, you know, just, oh, just how often this happens and just how tired I am, and just how I just can't make sense of it, and I feel bad even mentioning it, because people don't believe me or they blame me. And I feel like I've tried everything. I feel like people are like, what are you wearing? And it's like, I can be wearing a full-on trench coat in the middle of summer, just covering every inch of skin I possibly can. People still hit on me in the street, and people still get weird with me and sniff me

and constantly, like, don't let me cross the road because they want to be. want to get my number and stuff and they're like, you know, don't ignore me, bitch, and all this sort of stuff. And I just feel, ugh, like, it's so hard to talk about because nobody believes it happens. Nobody believes that this is going on. And I just don't know what to do about it because I want to have friends and I want to feel okay and I want to have people that I can trust. And sometimes I think I've found people and I will have known them for years and it will just

happen out of the blue and I'm just tired. Yeah, it sounds really exhausting. Can I think for a second? Do you work with a therapist or mental health professional, by the way? I used to. Back when I was depressed, I used to. But when I stopped feeling depressed, when I felt okay, they left. What do you think about seeing one again?

I don't know how they could help me because I know I make very punishing lists and I know I keep myself busy. But I'm okay mentally. I think that some of these things like what happened with one of my. roommates and what happened with one of my friends recently and things like that. I don't know how I can prevent that from happening except to just keep trying and keep trusting people until I find the right ones, unfortunately. Well, so that's actually exactly why I think one may be helpful because I think that we're missing some piece of the puzzle here, right?

Because what you're describing sort of just doesn't, it doesn't compute. There's like some variable to the equation. And maybe it's actually fair modes. Like maybe there's something about you that just drives people insane because that's certainly what it sounds like. Now, the interesting thing is that I think the reason to potentially see a therapist is for you to get someone, get a different pair of eyes besides your own, to look at your situation and see if...

Yeah. I've asked friends about this, people who knew the people that did this to me. They've said that sometimes I'm friends with very lonely people who can be very desperate who don't often get as much approval and attention as I'm willing to give them, and that that seems like intimacy to people who don't have that level of friendship normally, and that maybe they take it a lot more seriously than I do, but I set up my boundaries, they say if this isn't romantic, and they still pursue it. But also, I can be very forgiving.

So when perhaps someone crosses a boundary, I don't necessarily act like I'm outraged immediately when I should. And this means that whilst I'm processing whether or not I should be angry about it or act out and, you know, kind of say, look, stay away or anything like that. They've kind of said, well, she didn't get upset. That's consent sort of thing. And they keep pushing it and pushing it. And so I know that that's a problem. But I also know that a lot of the people that have done this to me have also been people with friends who are happy, who have in my emotional support who have connections.

And so sometimes it does feel like, I don't know, that would be, that would make sense if it was consistently the case. Sure. So I think that's another interesting example of like, kind of like that stuckness, right? So you're, you have reasons on the pro side. Like, oh, that would explain everything except dot, dot, dot. So there's, there's a very kind of conflicting theme through a lot of what you say. and it's kind of like maybe it's this way but except it's not.

And the other thing I would say just very simply is that I don't know that friends can provide for you the same degree of support or examination that a licensed professional can, right? Because they're going to be friends and they're not trained to like see patterns. Because I am curious. So Anita, I'm going to ask you a question and I understand that this question may come across as offensive. if it does come across as offensive, please let me know. Is there any part of you that's flattered by what they do? No. No. Because I know that a lot of these guys are so lonely that if anybody else, you know,

was around that gave them the same level of attention, they'd probably do the same thing. Like, I've learned that it's not, you don't have to be special for people to be attracted to you, that quite often guys especially will just take what they can get and that it's not, you don't have to be beautiful or smart or funny for guys to just be like, yeah, I'll sleep with you. You'll sleep with me, right?

Please sleep with me, right? So, no, it doesn't feel flattering. It feels like, ugh. It feels like I want to make friends with people. I want to have genuine connections that last, and there are always lonely dicks just getting in the way and just like, they're like just blockade to genuine friendship. Do you feel flattered by anything? That's a weird question.

Yep. I guess when people actually comment, compliment something that I can take credit for, like, I'm not really, I'm not really happy with, or I don't really care about comments in my appearance. I didn't really choose my genetics, but I did choose who I am or my ethics or the way I go about life or the way that I choose to impact animals and things like that. So I guess I can, I genuinely am like, oh, thank you. And weirdly, I trust compliments from women more these days, is I'm usually a little bit wary now after everything I've been through that, you know,

I don't know off the bat if a guy is hitting on me and just trying to butter me up initially, so I'm cautious. So usually when like a woman chooses to like compliment something I've chosen about myself, I'm like, wow, cool, thank you. But if a dude's like, I like, I like your ass, I'm just like, yeah. Yeah. So I'm really happy to hear that, India, because I was, I was growing a little bit concerned that maybe you don't let other people appreciate you. I have a friend. He's awesome. He's never done anything bad. He's a physicist. And we'll usually get a thermos of like a hot drink. We'll go and sit by the beach. We'll watch the sunset. We'll look at the stars and he'll tell me loads of cool facts about

them because he does astrophic. And he is genuinely very complimentary, but he'll compliment actual things about me. And yeah, I do the same for him and I really appreciate him. I think I can have a healthy reciprocal friendships. They're just incredibly rare. Absolutely. And there's a little part of me that's had friendships like that before for years that I've turned awry. So I'm still slightly on guard. Like I'm scared to, like with friends like that, I have like a few where they have like partners and stuff, I won't touch them. I won't, I won't, I won't, I won't even, because I'm scared of giving any signals that will trigger that kind of behavior from like, I get from like some, some people who've taken it too far or gone weird. Because it happens

out of the blue, sometimes spontaneously, and I don't know what causes it and I'm just scared. And there's little things like that that just really make me nervous now because I don't want to lose the friendship and I don't know what it is yet and I'm just terrified of losing people to this issue. Yeah, I can I can see that you know there is almost like a traumatic paranoia there. Like it's like it's happened to you so many times that you become so, so careful that you won't even engage in like normal behaviors like hugging because you're afraid of. of what will happen. I mean, that sounds really awful.

Any questions for me so far? I think what, let me just re-center of like where we're going and why we're going. So I told you about some of my illnesses and challenges. I've told you about some of the difficulties with friendships and people hitting on me, both male and female. Yeah. And how I feel quite isolated and how I'd like to form bonds and have people in my life. but it doesn't always pan out the way I hope.

So now you kind of know a lot of the stuff that troubles me and I find difficult about my existence. Some of the things that I'm trying to make sense of and trying to maintain some level of happiness and quality of life through. Yeah. So can we talk about that part now? Sure. How are you happy?

I think I like that I used to be very isolated and static and nothing in my life changed. And now every morning I wake up. and there's just a million possibilities. And I get to have a positive impact on those around me. It feels powerful to be the one that rewrites his story. Like with him, with Peter, he was abandoned because he's a destroyer. And he's destroyed a lot of my stuff.

He's quite angry. He's a little ball of hate. He looks adorable. He's a little ball of hate. And, yeah, I think I'm so glad that I got to make him happy and give him treats and that he's going to have a great quality of life. He's going to have all best back care. He's going to be okay now,

even though the first people to love him don't anymore. And I get to, you know, I get to talk to loads of people online. I get messages from people who are struggling. I get messages from people who've taken stuff from my stream and my coping mechanisms who are living a better life now. And they talk through what they've taken from it. And, you know, I get to change things from people. And I get to make sure my mom's okay.

And I get to see a lot of positivity in the world. and I get to be a part of a lot of positivity in the world. I get to laugh, I get to have a few drinks, and I can pick up with my friends sometimes, when I get the time. And even though that's not as often as it used to be, I feel really privileged to have people in my life and to smile with them and to just like enjoy these moments. And I kind of feel like, if I wait for everything to be perfect,

before I can be happy, I'll never be happy. And there's always going to be stuff I'm not happy with. There's always going to be something to be dissatisfied with. We're not meant to be satisfied. And I can keep on improving my life, but that doesn't mean that I'm blind to all the beauty in it. And yeah, I think to be honest, even suffering is a privilege because I get a short moment of life, I get a short moment to exist. And then I'm gone. And for most of the existence of the universe, I haven't been here and won't be here.

So for the brief time that I get to see and hear and feel and think and be, I feel really honored to have that. Even if not everything about it feels awesome, everything about it is awesome, because experiencing stuff is a privilege. And I remember that every day, and I feel really, really, really lucky to exist. And I really, really feel passionate about leaving the world a better place than when I found it. And I get to do that every day. I don't know how long I have, but every day at the end of the day, I know I've chipped

away at that goal, I guess, and I know that I've kind of, not just justified being, but really loved the chance to be. And yeah, if I die tomorrow, I'm really glad that I did everything that I did, because I devoted a lot of my time and energy and my power to influence the world to do things that I'm genuinely proud to have been a part of. And I have a lot of really great memories. So, yeah, I feel good. I like life. Life is awesome. Even if in order to enjoy it, you have to have some downsides sometimes.

And maybe I'll figure out how to make friends with people who don't want to mate with me. maybe that's a thing that will happen. I'm still figuring it out. I've tried a lot of approaches so far. I'll chip at it. And for the friends that I do have, the handful that have stayed and not done anything like that, I'm so grateful for them.

I'm scared, but grateful. And, yeah, I'm, like, I have this overall philosophy, overall with the whole existence of the universe, you know, being the lens through which the universe observes itself stuff, which I talk about a lot on stream. But there's also, like, an underlying, I know what I exist for. know the things that make me glad to exist.

I know the things that feel good about having lived that I can do daily and monthly and yearly, depending on how long they take, that make me grateful and satisfied. And I build, like, I've found stuff that is like, like a bucket, like, drops in a bucket that fill and stay instead of constantly dripping away. So many people. It's a beautiful analogy. Yeah. Well, thank you.

I don't remember anything of what I just said because I'm tired, so I don't know which part was an analogy, but cool. There was a, the thing is, I used to find happiness and things that used to drip away. And a lot of people do that. Like, when you buy stuff, like, you buy a thing and you have the thing and you're like, cool. And then you just want to buy another thing.

It doesn't really make you happy. And it won't matter. Like, when you die, no one's going to remember that you have those shoes. No one's going to remember your opinion on drunk. Like, that stuff's going to drip away. And it'll probably drip away in a year. you probably won't remember what shoes you had a couple of years ago. So basically, a lot of people reach for happiness and treat themselves to things that don't really build and satisfy.

They're just kind of like a stuck gap. And I found stuff that genuinely sits. Genuinely is there. How do you find stuff that genuinely sits? How do you know which drop it drops stay in your bucket and which one's drip away? Or my fist. So I remember when I had a therapist, we used to talk about this. I used to have a lot of stuff that I would do, but it wouldn't keep me happy,

and I'd have to constantly be running and constantly doing it over and over again to feel any semblance of okayness. And then I started doing the things that I felt I couldn't help but do. Things that if no one paid me, I'd still be doing. If it hurt, I'd still be doing. The stuff that I can't help but do. And I started allowing my... myself to give time to doing that more than everything else. I used to just run around,

looking after my mom and kind of chasing after my ex and just making sure he was okay and attending to everyone else's needs. When I wanted to go and do volunteering and I wanted to look after animals and I wanted to go and I wanted to read books, I wanted to educate myself and this sort of thing. And that's the kind of stuff that stayed and that I loved, but I wasn't allowing myself to invest in. So when I actually just let my urges free and just did exactly what I wanted, I gained experiences that I'll remember for the rest of my life and connections that I'll remember for the rest of my life even if they don't turn out awesomely in the end. Like I still feel really lucky about the friends that I hang out with. I have fond memories

of the guy who assaulted me. I'm glad I met him. I'm glad he gave me a chance to laugh and a chance to learn and stuff. I'm sad, it's over, but I'm not going to define our friendship by the way that it ended. I'm going to define it by all the things I was lucky to experience. Easy. I guess it was worth reaching out and risking it, even though I'm really scared of people these days. Sorry. I didn't mean to start laughing, but it just occurred to me, but maybe that's the pheromones. What do you mean? Just hearing you talking about this stalker and how you can appreciate people and appreciate your friendship despite the way that it ended, that sounds intoxicating.

To have someone in your life who, like, treats you that way. Like, I could imagine that people are drawn to that non-judgmental acceptance and gratitude and appreciation for life, like a moth drawn to a flame. Because that is, that's rare. Right. And either, like, most people who get stalked have difficulty appreciating parts of the relationship and expressing gratitude towards the relationship before people got crazy. Right? Oh, man. I hate how, I hate how right you are because, like,

One thing that is consistent that my friends say that I can't really deny is that I'm very forgiving. Like, I have this thing where, oh man, so like when people fuck up, I'm like, yeah, I'll make mistakes too someday. And if I want to deserve forgiveness, I'll, I'm going to be understanding an empathetic and you're going through this right now. And this is what's going through your head. And I understand. I'd just like you to stop. And I'm really like, gentle and forgiving. I mean, he did a lot of. of stuff that built up to the assault that people kind of were like, well, why didn't you just cut it off there? And I was like, because I was okay. And, you know, people make mistakes. And yeah, I think it's the fact that I'm very forgiving that may be a pretty consistent component

in this, because I'm thinking back to all the people, all the extreme examples. There was a girl who literally seduced and slept with everyone around me and sent nudes to them and all sorts because she wanted to get closer to me. Like the minute anyone appeared on stream with me or whatever, suddenly she was their best friend and she'd be trying to move in with them or whatever, right? And yeah, it got to the point where she broke a lot of hearts and really upset a lot of people.

And in the end, I was just like, wow, you've caused a trail of devastation here, lady. And she just would not stop hitting on me over and over and over. And I said no, but I was forgiving. And then she'd drunk text me and she'd say this and she'd do that. And I'd be like, no. But I forgive you, it's cool. And she'd be like, I'm so sorry.

I'm like, it's okay. It's okay. I understand you, sorry. I'm sure it won't happen again. And then she'd do it again and then I'd be forgiving. And then like my friend would have a broken heart. Why are you so forgiving? You don't know?

Okay. But yeah. So can we go? Can I share a couple thoughts? with you. Yeah. Some of them, I hope, will be helpful to people. Some of them may be a little bit concerning if that's okay. Yeah. So I see a couple patterns here that I think it's worth your time to explore. But let's start with this. So when we were talking about how you were able to be happy despite all of this stuff, I think that that is amazing. Like,

That kind of free association speech rant about how to view the world is like absolutely beautiful, Anita. And I think there's there are a couple of subtleties there. And my favorite subtlety is you always use the verb get to when you talk about yourself. Which is a, it's like, it's a little subtle thing. But like you use that, use the verb get. like I get to dot dot dot I get to dot dot dot dot I get to dot dot dot dot right like I get to appreciate this I get to do this I get to do this I get to do this I get to do this I get to do this

and so there's there's just a lot of gratitude like baked in to the way that you look in the world at the world which I think is a key thing because happiness Buddha says that happiness is not about like circumstances it's about mindset it's about detachment it's about being able to appreciate as opposed to expect. So expectation leads to suffering and like a lack of expectation is what leads to happiness. And if we hear your words, it's kind of interesting because I've never heard someone who expects a lot say I get to. Because get to sounds like a privilege, right? It sounds like something extra that you get to do. it's not that like you're entitled to do it.

Like I don't, I'm allowed to sit in this chair. It's my right to sit in this chair. And nowadays we tend to be, I'm not saying that this is negative. I'm just saying it's an interesting kind of consequence that I never realized. When we think about rights, rights are about entitlement and rights are about expectations. And I think rights are a good thing. But there's like a big difference between being entitled to do something and getting to do something. And getting to do something is about appreciation. And what I really hear from you is that

despite all of the terrible things in your life, you have genuinely found the capacity to appreciate the good. I think there's also a lot of like other really important stuff in there. I love your analogy about like drops of happiness that drip away versus drops of happiness that stay in your bucket. And somewhere along the way that you kind of started gravitating towards things that you find fulfilling as opposed to things that bring you like temporary or materialistic happiness. You have a very interesting, I mean, your language is just really interesting because you also use words like allow. You allowed yourself to start to do things that like you cared about as opposed to doing the

things that you were supposed to do. And that also is kind of weird because even the things that you allow yourself to do are things that are like giving things, which we'll get to in a second. And I really do think that it's been fascinating for me to hear. And I hope people can kind of take away with something. I think there's another maybe conversation that needs to be had or exploration into like, how were you able to do that? Right.

Because at some point you were chasing materialistic things or you were chasing temporary happiness. And then you said that I allowed myself to start to invest in things that like I should do, you know, for the betterment of the world and things like that. And so how did you do that? How did you be depressed? How were you depressed for 13 years and like what turned it around for you? Now, I don't know if that's a short conversation or a long conversation. If that's something you can like touch on for a few minutes, I think that would be fantastic. But then I do have a couple of other things that I'd like to share with you. Sure. If you want to know how I got out of my depression, I think it was a lot of things, a lot of steps. But if I had to put it as quick. as I could, it would be in the beginnings of my life, I didn't know I deserved respect. I excused the behaviour of the people around me by explaining it away. And that was important to me because I took it less personally when I understood it.

It's not because of me, it's because of their upbringing, it's because of their issues, it's because of their this, and understanding psychology and researching the way that people respond to trauma helped me to feel less flawed and deserving of the aggression and mistreatment that I endured. when I was younger. And that helped me until it started becoming an excuse to allow abuse. What I didn't then process until much later was that it's okay to expect respect. I didn't even know what that looked like. I didn't know what it felt like to be cared about and prioritized and love. And so I ended up in a situation of really extreme domestic violence, and I was drinking to cope with it every day. Weirdly, I thought I maybe wasn't alcoholic or something,

but then as soon as I moved out, I didn't drink. Like I didn't even notice that I didn't pick up anything. And from there, I still had a lot of ways to go, but I was starting to build a better and more beautiful environment where I could thrive and discover who I was. And then I had a lot of time throughout that whole situation to sit and listen to myself. So as soon as I had like a tiny little inch of movement

to be free to do what I want instead of what other people wanted me to do for them. Because I've basically grown up being a servant in a lot of ways. I didn't know what it was to have. Has that changed? I don't know yet. But I am happier. But yeah, like, I started to notice all of these things,

so I started building a better environment. I was offered antidepressants, especially after a suicide attempt. I didn't survive because I failed. I survived because someone busted the door down and intervened. And so I didn't exactly feel grateful to live. It wasn't a second thought thing. It wasn't a choice. It was a, oh, I didn't succeed kind of situation.

And I, in that situation, I needed to get out. I needed to fix my environment. And when they offered me under depression, so I was like, I don't feel like this is a problem with my neurochemistry. I feel like this is a problem with my surroundings. And I'd like to change those first. So I went running to help with the neurochemical side of things. and I started fixing my life and getting to safety.

And when I did, I started to expand into that little bit of extra freedom. And yeah, from there, I guess the next part was just thinking about the philosophical part of it and why I should want to live. I needed to have a reason. So I started thinking about what mattered to me and what was beautiful about life. And that's where the kind of universe kind of theory stuff came from. And that helped me to have like a little bit of a foundation and a backbone. And then the next part was, what will I be glad I did a year from now?

Like if I look back a year from now in the future, future me, what will I be glad I did? And what will I regret wasting time on? And I started prioritising according to the stuff that would consistently make me satisfied long term. And what I started imagining a life in the future where I was happy, it had animals, it had stability, it had safety and all these sorts of things. So just by being, like, picturing myself happy, I knew the direction I had to go. and I built all those things. I'm safe now and I'm happy and I have animals and I have computer games. Breakfast and breakfast.

I have all of the things that allow me to thrive and have choices. And another thing, I think the final thing is to stop trying to manipulate the world to be what I want it to be. I don't have goals and plans anymore. I go with the flow. I take what the universe hands me. I take what chaos throws up my feet and I build the best of it. There are people who get handed shit in life and they cry because they've got shit on their hands. And there are people who make it into bricks and build fucking houses.

And I want to be the second kind. I want to be the kind of person who could be handed anything and see it as an opportunity. Since then, I've been incredibly happy and surprised by all the beauty that's come my way. Okay. Beautiful, I need that. So can I highlight a couple of things that I heard there? No, get out. Yeah, go for it. So the first is that, like, I think, it starts with listening to yourself.

So I think that this is something that people need to understand is that we're taught, and this kind of goes back to the idea that people with privilege can't suffer, and that people who are in lack privilege can't be happy. And I think that the interesting thing is that, like, a lot of times when I work with people, they assume that a particular thing is going to bring them happiness. And the interesting thing is that since they don't have it, like, like a, good example is like, let's say there's a guy who's never had, so I used to be this way, where like I had never really had a serious and loving relationship, and I thought what I needed

to be happy was a serious and loving relationship. And the interesting thing, though, is that that's not something that comes from me. That's something that comes from watching other people. So it's not actually listening to myself. It's making assumptions about what the road to happiness looks like based on what I see outside of myself. Because if you think that a mill being a millionaire is going to make you happy and you aren't a millionaire, then like you're not basing that on yourself. You're basing it on the outside world. Yeah. And I and we'll get to, I mean, I do think a loving relationship goes a long way and we'll get to that in a second. But the first thing is that, you know, I was listening to your story and it sort of started with listening to yourself.

It started with getting a little bit of space and listening to that voice inside you and following that direction, even in the smallest way. And then you got a little bit more space. You listen to it more and so on and so forth. I think you also mentioned something like so about the power of environment and the people around you. I think so many people do not understand how much of the way they feel has so much to do with things that are given around them. Like if you live in a toxic home with abuse of parents and you think that there's no way that you're going to be better and we get this a lot that Dr. K is the only one that can save you, you would be surprised how little Dr. K matters

compared to like getting the fuck out of like your current living situation with abusive people. It can be like night and day. There are so many things about the environment, the soil that you put yourself in and like the air that you put yourself in and the sunlight that you put yourself in and the water that you put yourself in that will allow you to grow into a different person. Yeah.

And so I think that you were able to really make a couple of serious steps forward that were sort of like mental, like in a sense mental health related. It sounds like you were in a dangerous and traumatic relationship, which you got the fuck out of. It also sounds like you saw a trauma therapist who helped you kind of work through these things, which is awesome. And then somewhere along the way you started to like channel this like universe, Buddha, Eastern, Western, whatever, like this sort of truth about take what is given to you. start to appreciate life and all this shit that everyone wants to learn how to do, but no one knows how do you learn how to do that. And I think the really grateful thing, I'm grateful to you, Anita, because you've given us like the story of like how that happens. And I think there were a couple of key things about basically listening to yourself, changing a couple of circumstances,

really like thinking about the way that you see the world. There's a lot of self-reflection and growth as opposed to a playbook that you follow. And I think, unfortunately that's what I've found is that like everyone has to walk this journey on their own there's no no one can give these answers to you you have to figure them out yourself um but we can sort of get a guidebook as to how to figure them out yourself which starts with things like listening to yourself okay thoughts questions can I move on to part two can I just uh take a note I I feel like I need to say this out loud because I have bad memory but I remember things better when I say them. But so this conversation is kind of making me feel like I'm being a bit greedy. I feel like

we've touched on that I'm a bit too busy. But I think an aspect that I haven't really acknowledged about it is that I don't have enough time to be all the things I want to be. And that I just am not allowing myself to settle for a few and do them well. I'm trying to do everything. But yeah, it's part two. That's part two. So we're going to we're going to talk about that right now. So Anita, I think you're an amazing person. And I still think you're an amazing person. And I still there are some things about you that my hope is that you can get to a place of even more peace. Like I think you've attained a lot of happiness despite your circumstances and even some of your internal conflicts.

And my hope is that some of those internal conflicts can even become a little bit easier on you. And let me share with you what I mean. So like the first thing is like you just said it, right? Despite all of this, you feel greedy. Sometimes you feel guilty. Sometimes you put yourself in danger. sometimes you feel burnt out. And I think there are like reasons for that.

Like I think there are things that you can still look at in your life in ways that you can reflect and grow. And maybe therapy is a part of this, maybe not, where you don't have to be as burdened as you are. But I think that's going to be tough. And I'm going to just start talking. So I think you've got to be careful about I want to be the kind of person. that dot, dot, dot.

So underneath a lot of this, I think that there's a lot of genuine growth and appreciation. But there's also like, I'm getting some undertones, and this may be wrong, okay, about like you really force yourself into a particular kind of view

of like what's acceptable for you. Like, I want to be the kind of person because if I ask myself, like, who the fuck is so forgiving? like and and I wonder if if somewhere in there is that like you want to be the kind of person who can be forgiving and so you become the kind of person who's forgiving even though maybe you shouldn't be so forgiving but it's almost like you hold a standard for yourself that's so high that you don't allow yourself to like hold negative qualities what do you think about that can I just think for a

second absolutely It feels like with the forgiving thing in particular, it's not so much a standard that I'm trying to cookie cutter fit into you. I'm not contorting myself out of my own range. I think it comes from a position of empathy. I kind of feel like I was late to the social scene. I was socially awkward and dumb. Luckily, I didn't have social media at the time, so no one can hold some ancient tweets against me or whatever. but I was not, I was clueless.

And I needed to be forgiven to have the chance to grow and learn to be fun to hang around. I needed the chance to be able to see what a good friend is and receive friendship and connection before I could be a good friend and connect. And so I really relate to people who are messing up. I really relate to people who come to me and they bungle our interactions in some way or are an inappropriate or cross boundaries or don't know that something isn't right because to me it doesn't feel like an offense or an attack initially I don't feel scared or I don't feel you know the feelings that I should feel what I feel is that this person needs help I don't feel like oh no I'm in danger I should call the police okay so so let's sorry can I interrupt for a second why don't you feel

the feelings that you should feel I don't know I don't know why I'm you've made me very rare that I think what causes these extreme situations is that I keep giving people chances after they show that maybe I should let them go. I think I think it's that I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt when deep down I know what's happening. Like I keep giving people chance. I think the hard thing here, Anita, is that in a bizarre way, I think maybe your goodness needs to change. So now I'm going to I'm going to build on this hypothesis a little bit, okay? And I'm not telling you that you shouldn't be a good person, but I think that you are a good person at the detriment to yourself.

And that's something that as someone who also feels empathy and caring, and as someone who cares about a lot of people, when I see you, I see you cannibalizing yourself for the sake of other people. And that hurts me to see. But I don't know that causes dissonance in me. I breakfast I don't

I don't think it does cause dissonance within you and that's actually what bothers I know it's weird hear me out okay so so the first thing is that like I just could be wrong here okay I just could be wrong I just don't

this is something that and either there's one thing you've demonstrated to me and that's an amazing capacity for self-reflection exploration and growth and so I am going to trust you to know all I'm going to give you is something to think about and if you explore it and then you conclude that what I'm saying is not really applicable, fine.

I think there's a decent chance of that. But let me just tell you like a couple of other patterns. Okay. So the first is that there is this pattern of like stockness of sort of like, okay, like I'm a good person. I help lots of people. You take care of your mom. You take care of bunnies. you take care of those people who used to be loved and are loved and no longer.

Noble spirit. Beautiful. Amazing. Right. And then on the flip side of that, there's also some amount of guilt or feeling like you're letting people down if you sit still. There's a sense of burnout. You're kind of like a fixer. You're like the person who never gives up on other people.

What are you feeling right now? Feeling okay? Yeah, I'm okay. What are you feeling? Just squeezed. just awkward. Yep. I had a feeling

this was going to happen. So I tried to apologize that ahead of time. So stick with me if you can and if it becomes uncomfortable, let me know. Okay? And I'm absolutely

going to squeeze you. So I'm going to keep squeezing and you got to let me know if I'm being a dick. Okay. One second. Sure. My bunny's getting too hot

on my lap. I'm just going to put him away. Great. Sometimes we've got to hit the pause button. Anita, are you okay if I keep... Oh. You okay if I keep squeezing or should we stop? Yeah, it's fine.

Okay. You'll let me know if it's not okay? Yes. Okay. So, you know, it's interesting because I mean, I see that like, you know, you're clearly a good person and yet you have some of these negative feelings which it sounds like you kind of manage by chunking them up and dealing with them a piece at a time, which sounds like a really good strategy. there are a couple of other things that so if we look at a lot of the different things that you do there's like sort of a good side and a bad side

right like taking care of your mom has a good side and it has a bad side. Generally speaking the good side is for other people the bad side is for you that tends to be how your relationships work right? So if we look at like the stockers like they benefit from your saintly forgiveness

and that comes at the cost of you sometimes being like in situations that are dangerous. And you are just, you're such a good person. And sometimes it, honestly, it scares me how good of a person you are.

Because, anyway, so I don't know where that relentless positivity comes from. I think a lot of it is, is very, very genuine and comes from, because I hear absolutely, like,

the result of genuine reflection and appreciation for what life has given you. And it's beautiful to watch. And I also wonder, like, I don't know if this is just me being cynical, but I also wonder if there's some amount of yourself that won't let you be less than what you are.

Because it sounds like when you stay still for a minute, feelings, negative emotions start to come up and then like you don't want to let yourself feel that way. And then we get to a couple of other like just interesting things. Okay, so there are ups and downs to most things in your life. It kind of goes back to this idea of being stuck where like, you know, you can't eat. or like you can't you need to have flatmates because like sometimes physically like it sounds like

for a safety issue like you need to have people around in case you choke and at the same time you're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't because whenever you do have flatmates they start you know burgling your underwear and and the pheromones and things like that so it's kind like damned if you do and damned if you don't so the two other things that I'd really think about is like that's a pattern that I see in so many parts of your life so there's one part that I don't see this pattern, which is in the burgling of the underwear and the obsessional worshipfulness of Anita.

And so the cynical part of me wonders, like, what's the positive of that side of the relationship? Right? Because everything else in your life has like a good part and a bad part. And people obsessing over you seems to be all bad. But generally speaking, I don't think that patterns,

like you said, like the patterns that you have, have pros and cons, right? They're the adaptations that you've formed. And it is very possible that there is something like purely physiologic about you and your pheromones that does this. But there's a part of me that says that we would be like, it would be remiss if we did not consider what are you getting out of this? Like, where's the positive here?

Or is this just the one dimension of your life where there's just negative? because generally speaking, I think patterns persist because they do something for us. And even the most bizarre negative patterns still do something for us. And a good example of this is like abusive relationships. Because like people ask that, you know, why do people stay in abusive relationships? And I'm sure you have some thoughts about that. But sometimes it's like, like when I remember talking to a couple of people who have had trauma and what they shared was that like, the idea that they would rather be with someone who they know is abusive

than sort of take the chance with someone who isn't abusive and then one day may become abusive. Yeah. I don't know if I relate to that one reasoning, but yeah, I know. Yeah. I mean, I think it's different for different people. But, I mean, it's really bizarre things. And earlier on stream, we were talking to someone

who was embroiled with some of this sexual harassment stuff. and it was bizarre to discover that part of the reason that she did not speak was not out of fear or power dynamics, but was actually out of love, which is like strange. Like that's not why we think women remain silent when it comes to sexual harassment and assault. And my point is that like it's just, it's too persistent of a pattern. I think there's some order to it.

And could it be physiologic? Absolutely. Could it be that like you evoke something? So here's another hypothesis. for example, that you evoke something very, very like primordial and almost like carnal in people, that there's something about the person that you are and kind of the light that you give off and the gratitude that you bring and the forgiveness that you bring that just like some people's like brain just can't handle it and they start to get confused about the relationship with you.

I think there could be a bunch of hypotheses. but the real the real question that I think could offer growth if it happens to be true is like what are you getting out of it and and in a bizarre way and maybe I'm projecting here because I have felt this way before that like the more the harder the worse people treat me the greater I become if I forgive them and bizarrely that ended up being about my ego Not about me being a good person, but about convincing myself that I'm a good person. I don't know if I relate to that one particularly. You are making me step back and observe how I feel when I interact with these people that kept pushing my boundaries as I allowed them to do so and kept forgiving them.

And I don't think I felt like a better person. I felt an encroaching sense of unease and fear like fear, like not fear of being harmed, but fear of losing them. Like I felt like every step I was like, ah, don't do that, okay, because I'm going to have to not be friends with you one day. So I'm going to forgive you and I understand why this happened, but you have to start now. And I'd be so gentle because every step of the way, as they step closer and closer and I keep stepping back and back, I feel scared of losing them. I feel like I really enjoy playing a computer games with this person.

I really enjoy having friends and building connections. I'm so proud of myself being able to actually connect with people because it was so hard for me before. And I really want this to continue. And I don't want this to be what it's becoming. And I don't want to acknowledge that it's becoming the same pattern. I don't want, I don't want this to go this way. I'm going to keep giving you chances to take it in another direction. Please.

And I don't feel good about it. I feel weak. I feel degraded because I am surrendering my self-respect. I know deep down that I should. be able to just say, I don't like this, you know, don't do this to me. But I feel like I would rather feel humiliated. I'd rather feel like a soft touch and feel like, ugh, I'm being really weak here, then keep losing people and keep feeling like I can't connect and keep feeling so alone. I just feel, I think I fear, I fear the loss more than I fear the situations I end up in. I fear, I feel, I feel

losing these people more than I fear the assault. Yeah, so that makes a lot of sense. And then the other interesting thing there, Anita, is it's not just the fear of losing people. It's the fear, I mean,

once again, a hypothesis, right? So I trust to you. So I encourage you to think about this. It may not just be the fear of losing people. It may be the fear of becoming the person who loses people. Does that make sense? I think I need to expand on that.

So you used to be someone who couldn't form relationships with people. Right? And now you've become someone who forms relationships with people. And so sometimes it's not about the loss of an individual relationship. It's about rewinding and going back to square one and being back to the person you used to be who can't form relationships with people. I wonder if that's really what you're afraid of. It's not the loss of a particular relationship. It's about like the, like, I just, I'm getting this vibe from you that this is about you is a person. It's not about them.

It's about you. And anyway, so you guys, you just got to think, I mean, think through it. And I think you'll know. And I trust whatever your answer is. So is it about the loss of that particular. relationship and like maybe there's something with a fandom there or is about is it about becoming going back to the person that you used to be because that would make a lot of sense to me that you are fucking terrified of losing what you gained losing your gratitude like if there was one motivator

that would trump all other motivators if I had to hypothesize for you it's about losing what you've gained because holy shit Anita you've gained so much through sweat blood and tears And if anything could possibly take that away, this is my empathy speaking. I would be absolutely terrified. Absolutely terrified. Because you have gained so much. You have triumphed and climbed mountains and loved an appreciation for life where people are stealing your underwear.

You wake up every day with aspirational pneumonia. You can't eat because you vomit. You punch yourself in the face and you have emotional moments of rage. And somehow you have tried. triumphed over this ship and there's a chance that something can take this away, uh-uh. No fucking way. You will deal with as much abuse as they have to give, but you're not going to slide back on the road that you've traveled so far. That would make sense to me. Doesn't make it true. It does make a lot of sense to me too. Yeah. I think it's not just about losing them.

And I do mourn them. I miss those friends that I've lost to these situations. But I, yeah, I am terrified of being an isolated person again who sees people outside the window, having fun and enjoying summer and just seeing every moment slip away and not being able to connect and feeling really alone and feeling like I'm losing, like my life is dripping away while I sit here to afraid to connect and live and do things. And yeah, a lot of things that I do are about out of fear of sliding back into that trap again, of being in those same falls for years because I was agoraphobic too. So yeah, it stands to reason that not being accepting and not being forgiving and not trying

to rectify the issues in my friendships, even when it's beyond repair. Yeah, it does feel like I'm sliding back to that place. Like it's weird, right? Because it's like you're not, yeah, because I mean, you know they're beyond repair. So there has to be something really powerful and oddly enough, I think positive in key. Because like if you think about it, who puts up with that much weird shit? There's got to be something to balance those scales, right? Otherwise, you wouldn't be in the relationship to begin with.

And the last thing is, and this is where I hope for you, because I think that on some level, you've processed a lot of emotions, but like I think this part of you somewhere along the way, you still haven't been able to feel secure enough that you're not going to go back there because Anita you're not going to go back there. I don't think you're going to go back there. I think you're just a different person. I don't think that any amount of anything

can take you back there. And I would love it if you could somehow come to understand that and feel secure in that and be free of that fear. Because like there's still a lot of stuff that you're like, I think, holding on to and suppressing. And it sounds like you've got a pretty good

strategy for kind of chunking up and managing it over time. And at the same time, I still see you carrying a burden that I wish you didn't have to. And I want to believe that one day you'll get to put that burden down. Yeah. The last thing is that if you do have suppressed emotion, it's going to make your autoimmune stuff worse. So this is a generally like known thing that like, you know, psychological distress makes autoimmune disorders worse, and that's not, it's not psychological. There's something called psycho-neuroimmunology, which is like a fascinating field, which looks at the relationship between your mind, your brain, and your immune system, and generally

looks at the dysregulation of your immune system based on psychological insults. And so the last thing that I would hope is that if you can continue moving on the path that you're moving. I would hope because it sounds, I mean, I don't know what your autoimmune disorder is, but it sounds like it's fucking awful. And it also sounds like, you know, generally speaking with autoimmune disorders, we don't really have great treatments where you take a pill and that shit goes away. And yet I've seen a lot of hope with people with autoimmune disorders because they wind up in my office and then we help them psychologically. And then their autoimmune stuff sort of gets better. And so I really hope that your autoimmune stuff can get better too. And I hope

I just, because Anita, you're such an amazing and remarkable person. I think it, like, it makes me sad. And I think this is maybe a little bit pity. And I apologize for feeling that way. It's just how I feel. Like, I, like, I, I think, I'm not trying to pity you. It's just, it's just how I feel. Like, I feel sad for you.

And I feel like you don't deserve to feel, like, for everything that you've gained, I think it's incredibly unfair that at the edges you still have chunks of guilt and chunks of fear and chunks of like maybe other shit, I don't know. Because you are like you make the world such a better place by your existence. And I feel like, you know, the people who are deserving of those chunks of negative emotion are the assholes. They're the panty thieves. They just feel that way.

Not you. Which isn't fair and isn't true. But that's just the way that I feel. Thank you. I really, I really appreciate that. And I appreciate that, you know, that it's so nice to speak to someone, especially about the whole panty-stealer's thing without judgment. It's such a hard arena to come forward about this or stuff

because it only ever evokes hate. People assume that it's my fault or that I'm doing something wrong. And it's so good to hear it to talk to someone who wants to help me understand what's going on and fix it rather than just blame me. Yeah. I mean, the most inappropriate thing that I feel about, about the panty-seaters thing, can I share it's going to be a little, maybe a little bit humorous, is just like this, this bizarre curiosity. Like, like, what's going on there?

Anyway, I don't mean to devalue, like, because it is, I mean, it's a remarkable pattern. I've never heard of this before. And he doesn't. And anyway, I, I apologize for not meeting you where you were emotionally there in that moment. No, no, no, no, it's fine. like I joke about it quite often too. It's just like I've been through so much regarding it recently with multiple people

not just the panty stealing but you know the pushing of boundaries and just the weird people yeah weird things that people do that I'm just like I would joke I've got so many jokes about it you wouldn't believe but I've been laughing this off for years yeah right now I'm just like oh you have no idea to do you it's just so much

it's just so much I think it doesn't make it but I think being a streamer kind of contributes quite a bit. I mean, I get people who DME who are like, can I pay you 350 euros to have 15 minutes live stream of your feet and things. So like, I think it's really hard to differentiate when people first make friends with you. They're not like, hi, I'm secretly planning to get to marry you, but you don't know that yet. And I totally not into you. Okay. We're just friends. And like, so I think that there's a higher risk factor of it now just because I'm a streamer and, you know, it's just something, it's a side effect of streaming. So it's, I

think it's probably not going to go away, even if I figure out the aspects of it that you really highlighted and helped me in. I think it's just a side effect of what's going on with me now as well. But at least when I stop streaming, there'll be hope that, you know, I can reduce this and kind of get back to kind of like a very safe, respectful level with people again. Well, assuming it isn't fair, unless. Yeah, I mean, my mom's 50 and she's still getting it. Like, every kid. Kara, we've gotten her as fallen in love with her and like men would fight over her. Yeah, like two guys, I remember when I was a kid, two guys bent down to kiss a hand at once and

they both banged heads against each other. It's hilarious. But I have so many stories like that. My mom has it worse because she's very, very beautiful. She's 50. She looks like my younger sister. She, um, everyone just is infatuated with her. It's ridiculous. Um, so she has it a lot worse than me, um, in terms of that level of attention. Um, so I, I guess I, I, I, I, I, I guess, I, I, I, was scared as well because, you know, she hasn't ever, she's just stayed away from people has been her coping mechanism. And I really didn't want that to be mine. Interesting. Yeah, that gets me even more curious because like that's like, I mean, there could be something genetic. I mean, yeah. Yeah, I mean, she traced our family history and a lot of our,

the women in our family, like from back from from the ancient camp, Kelp level, used to be sold off to marriage to nobles and things because we were notorious for having a lot of. lot of women that attracted a lot of male attention and that you know they were all different body types and they were all different you know age groups and stuff and it's not like we all look the same or act the same we're all very very unique people from each other and yet this still happens to us so i i don't know sounds like some something something special there's some kind of special sauce it's interesting but you know it caused problems like she said that two of our family members in our history were burned as witches.

And that the story that runs in our family is that there were just some jealous women in the village whose husbands and partners took an interest in them. So they accused them to get them out of the way. So it doesn't, it's not a good thing. It's not a fun thing. No, it certainly doesn't sound fun. It sounds, you know, remarkable, but not fun. I can't, you know, thankfully there's...

But they're all a lot more, a lot better looking than me. A lot of my family, there was some really gorgeous women in my family. I wish it had been more a positive thing for them, honestly. Sounds like it. Yeah. So yeah, this was awesome. I don't want to eat away your time. I'm actually quite excited to see what you can do for this kid in this project.

Yeah. So thank you very much, Enid. I really appreciate your openness. And I hope I didn't say anything that was out of line. you know, I think, yeah, and I apologize if I did. I apologize if I made off-color jokes or made you feel squeezed. I gave consent. It's all good. Yeah, I think sometimes, you know, there has to be a little bit of discomfort when we look at the parts of ourselves that we just haven't looked at before.

And I hope that that was okay and I hope it's helpful to you. And I'd really think about maybe exploring this with someone who is a professional just to see if it's valuable. Because Anita, you're so self-reflective on your own. It's like, I mean, a professional is just going to be accelerant to anything that you would do on your own. And it sounds like you make really good use of that time. So I'd really think about getting, you know, thinking about that. Thank you. Well, what you've given me is a lot.

And I think it may really help me to set better boundaries and be sick first. You know, I really appreciate you and everything you've done for me and I hope people who've been listening have taken something good from it as well. And yeah, with that, I'll uh...