HealthyGamerGG - Healing from Festered Emotions ft. CrankGameplays (co-creator of Unus Annus)

Episode Date: April 27, 2021

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How you doing, man? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing well. I had a little bit of a rough night. My kid woke up randomly like super early in the morning and came and woke me up. So didn't get quite a full night's sleep. But part of being a parent, you know.

Yeah. How old is your kid? I have a five-year-old and a three-year-old. Ooh, those are definitely waking up early ages. Yeah. It's, it can be fun. But yeah, it's very, very fun. And what do you go by?

Usually just by Ethan. Ethan, okay. Yeah. And yeah, man. So you want to talk about something in particular today? I mean, yes and no, like kind of down to just go with the flow. But yeah, the main thing, I guess, was just imposter syndrome was a big thing. And yeah, just sort of.

the pressures of being a content creator and a person online. Absolutely. I just took a month off of YouTube, which was really huge and sort of like very eye-opening for me. Yeah, so you want to just actually start off by telling us a little bit about where people can find you and what kind of content you make? Yeah, so I do mostly YouTube and streaming stuff, just crank gameplays everywhere. I've been doing it for

it'll be nine years in August I started when I was 15 Wow Yeah and It's been a crazy little Journey Yeah sounds like a little bit longer than a little journey Yeah yeah it's it's been a long time

Which is weird because it both seems like it hasn't I haven't been doing this for a long time and I've been doing it for an eternity Wow Yeah, a bit of both. And so what kind of, um, so crank game plays, I assume you play games. Yeah, mostly gaming stuff. I'm trying to now branch out a little bit more, uh, just because again, I've been doing it for almost nine years and I want to do something, uh, I want to make more content

that's a little more like creatively fulfilling. Um, just because after doing it for so long, it's not as much of a challenge anymore. And I do really like figuring things out. and you know being a little bit more creative. Okay. Yeah and I just I just finished doing a channel with a friend of mine for a year. We made we made videos for a year and then deleted everything. Oh wow.

And that was all we made a video every single day doing just like random bullshit for most of the time. That's really cool. So it sort of adds I guess there's sort of this timeless quality to YouTube. videos and and then you guys I guess made it did you guys want to delete everything like yeah

yeah that was frustration no that was that was the goal from the beginning the channel is called Eunice Honest which means one year in Latin and so we were every video started with a timer of how much time was left and so we did a year's worth of videos and then we ended it with a 12 hour live stream

where at the end of the live stream, we deleted the channel while we were streaming from it. And everything went away. That sounds like quite creatively fulfilling. Yeah, it was really, really awesome. It was super stressful, but it was like definitely an awakening, I think, for both of us being like, oh, wow, like doing this kind of stuff is really, really fun.

And also, we don't just have to do gaming stuff. Like, we can do other things. that sounds really great man you know it's interesting because you were saying you want to creatively branch out but that sounds like i've never heard of anyone doing anything like that before yeah i think that's why i want to branch out more just because that was so fulfilling and every single day was something different um and so yeah it just it helped my brain a lot actually can i think for a second yeah so ethan i'm noticing sort of like an interesting branch point

already. Whereas I know, so I know a lot of times, like, people come on here and, and the ideas that we're going to talk about something negative, like imposter syndrome and bad emotions and burnout. But honestly, like, half the work that I do is literally has nothing to do with the negative. It's sort of like bridging people from, let's say, like, the journey from being, like, depressed. And then, like, one day people will come into my office and then we'll sort of have this conversation about you're not depressed anymore.

You're just unhappy. And that there's a. difference. Oh, thanks, son. And there's a difference between being unhappy and being depressed. And so when I think a little bit about, like, you know, you said you took a month off and that was, you know, it sounds like it was rejuvenating and maybe there's some amount of imposter syndrome. There's also this sort of like personal development arc or like personal growth arc, finding fulfillment, what is the nature of suffering? What is the nature of happiness? What is the nature of contentment? When we sort of have those kinds of conversations, we can still

draw a little bit on science. So we can talk about like Maslow or there's a psychologist named Eric Erickson. So, you know, in the West we have a lot of this stuff. But we also can draw a lot on kind of Eastern principles of spirituality, stoicism, almost take a slightly more philosophical approach. And it's odd, Ethan, but like when I'm sitting across from you, there's a part of me that just kind of like feels like maybe that's a direction we need to go at some point in the conversation. Yeah I'm down for anything Yeah

I'm definitely down for that I'm definitely down for that I that's the other thing is like I don't even really know what I want to talk about necessarily Which is also like another thing that I Have a hard time with Like my ADHD is pretty bad

And so like having Having conversations and me having coherent thoughts Is also something that I struggle with Um Yeah So if I ever get lost in the conversation, that's why. Yeah. So, hmm, okay.

So why don't, can you just start with telling us a little bit about like how you started on, on YouTube and in what kind of inspired you to create content? Yeah, it was basically boredom. Me and my best friend from back home one summer in August of 2012, we were just bored one night. and we had been watching a bunch of different YouTubers it was mainly like PewDie Pye and the Game Grumps and we were like huh like you have a computer and we like messing around on camera

like let's just do this because they do it and we like video games so why not and that's how it started and then eventually I just went off on my own and made videos and yeah it mainly stemmed from boredom and then it grew into this passion in this thing that I really, really love to do.

And I had been making random videos since I was a kid, like just like home videos, my brother. And then once YouTube came out, just like random YouTube videos here and there with some friends. And that's what I wanted to do when I was a kid, not specifically be a YouTuber, but I wanted to be an entertainer in some sense. Like I wanted to be an actor for a really long time.

And then I found YouTube and it was like, oh, it's sort of like this new wave. of entertainment or whatever. Absolutely. And then it just kind of happened. And so what was it that appealed to you about being an actor or entertainer? Probably at the time when I was a kid, it was being the center of attention. I was always just pining for people's attention all the time.

And that's something that I'm even like really insecure about because looking back at like home videos and stuff like that or even my older videos from when I first started, I feel super embarrassed by them. And like, I'll show them to people because I know that's part of it. Like, that's part of like, hey, look where I came from. But it is kind of embarrassing. Just seeing that kid and being like, oh, you're trying so hard. What's embarrassing about that? I think it's, I think it's that thing of like, oh, you're trying so hard to like be the center of attention and you're being like too much. and like too bombastic and crazy and stuff like that and that's that's also kind of what I was being told when I was a kid too sure not necessarily by my family sometimes by my family but like I didn't do well in school and my teachers were always like hey like you need to settle down

blah blah and it was also back in a time where you know ADHD was still not really understood that much Sure. And it was just like, oh, you don't have an actual mental thing going on. You just have too much energy and your disruption to the class. Yeah, you know, Ethan, it's sometimes so sad, like how kids with ADHD, like we place value judgments on them, right? Like you're being a bad kid. Yeah. And it's actually quite devastating.

Like, I've seen this a lot where it's like a lot of people with ADHD just feel, they carry around so much like shame from early in their life that they don't even understand because it's been so normal to them. Yeah. You know, that they're being told to function in an environment that their brain just isn't suited for. And it can be really rough. So I'm sorry you were in that situation.

And it sounds like, you know, people weren't happy with you. Yeah. No. And that's something that I've struggled with for a long time. Not only like the thought of like, oh, I was a bad kid and I know that I wasn't a bad kid or anything but I've always felt stupid like my entire life and that's something that I'd still struggle with now and I think it really comes from that and comes from me being in school and not being able to learn the way that everybody

else learned and so I just thought I was stupid because I just didn't I just didn't get it and you know obviously like I went to a public school so it was, you know, 170 or 140 kids in my grade. And so it's not like the teachers can individually teach kids in the way that they learn. Like, it's just not realistic. But yeah, my whole life I've sort of dealt with that with. And I know that I'm not stupid, but that's always been a thing in the back of my mind.

Like, I feel dumb all the time. Okay. Which I think also contributes to my imposter syndrome. Sure. So we can talk about. Hmm. So I'm finding so many different forks in the road, Ethan. And I don't know what direction to take things.

So I'm going to need your help. Yeah. And we can go, we can go anywhere. So I think it's actually incredibly insightful for you to say, I know I'm not stupid. But I carry this feeling around. And there's a part of me that's like, wants to just explain to you or like ask you, like, how does that work? And then even explain to you. like this is where we go into a little bit more like teaching mode where, you know, I can,

I can, like, because a lot of people don't understand that. It can be really confusing that, like, I know I'm not stupid. And it's kind of weird, right? Because even when you show home videos to people, you're kind of owning that insecurity. You're kind of saying, I'm not going to let the insecurity. Like, I actually am confident in myself. I'm confident with how far I've come. And so showing people like home videos of the blunder years, if you really think about it as actually a sign of like confidence. And at the same time, you feel insecure doing it, even though there's a part of you that's like, yeah, this is where I came from. I should be proud of it. Like, I've come a long way. Like, wow, like I really didn't, you know, know much back then. And so it's

almost like you have these two opposite poles that exist within you at the same time. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think that there's some value to be gained a little bit about, you know, understanding like, how does that work? Because like, no one teaches us. Like, why does my mind do these things? And if you want to, we can kind of go down that route. We can also talk a little bit about imposter syndrome, which I think it has maybe something to do with that. But I think there's more to it than that, usually. Or what we can do is, you know, I can ask you questions about how you felt stupid and then you can end up becoming emotional on stream.

If that's the right. Because sometimes that's what people are looking for. They're looking for like emotional catharsis as opposed to teaching. and it really it's like what are you in the mood for bro I'm down for anything I'll cry on stream if you want me to it's not about what I want man

it's about what you want let's explore that that first path a little bit okay so how do you understand no like okay I'm gonna ask you a question okay are you stupid

no I'm not stupid why do you feel that way Um Who Now that's a good question I mean It's just something that I know I know I'm not stupid

I I'm aware that my brain Just works in different ways Than other Than other peoples do Yeah And when I get into the I think I know I'm not stupid

Because I've proved to myself that I'm not stupid because in the right environment I can thrive. And that even happened in school where specifically in physics, I did really well in that class because we did a lot of hands-on stuff where like the teacher showed actual examples of the way that things worked. And it was like, oh, like this is something that's being shown right in front of me. And also we were doing like hands-on stuff. And so like I could figure out how it worked.

And I did really well in that class because I was in the correct environment. And so there have been a lot of things like that where it's like, oh, I know I'm not stupid because I'm actually doing well at this thing. I just learn differently. Yeah. So now I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, this is going to be tough for you, Ethan. So I'm going to press you, okay? Because I think you're not stupid at all. I think you're incredibly insightful.

I think you're a smart guy. So I'm going to ask you hard questions. Is that okay? Yeah. Are you feeling anxious if I say something? something like that? No, I don't feel anxious about it at all. I'm down for anything.

Okay. So if you have proven to yourself that you're not stupid, why do you still sometimes feel stupid? I think I feel that way because most of the time I'm not in that kind of environment where I do feel comfortable. Like a lot of times if there's like a large risk. going on in a room, I'll just say completely silent because I, I'm afraid of, well, there's a few things that I'm afraid of. One, like, I don't want to, like, embarrass myself and say something that, like,

I don't know anything about. Um, but two, it's another thing of, like, with my ADHD, like, it's so hard for me to follow along, especially in group settings. And so I just, like, hang back and I just am sort of like a fly on the wall. I forget your original question. Yep. No, I think it was, so that's also incredibly insightful, right? So I don't think that that was as anything to ADHD. I think I asked you a question and your mind went to a place where you were like, oh, when I'm in group settings,

I asked you like, why do you sometimes feel stupid? And then you started talking about group settings. And then you also talked about how you've essentially adapted to survive in group settings. Yeah. Does that make sense? Like, that's how I interpreted what you said. But then the question still remains in a group setting. Do you feel stupid?

A lot of times I do, yeah, because I feel like I don't have anything to contribute most of the time because I'm afraid and, like, anxious of saying something that I don't know about or, you know, not following along correctly, whatever. So let's be a little bit precise here, okay? So you're saying that you feel afraid or anxious because you don't have something to contribute. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to toss a hypothesis to you that it's the other way around. Okay.

It is your fear and anxiety and insecurity that causes you to conclude that you don't have anything to contribute. What do you think about that? That makes a lot of sense. It's interesting, right? Because we say like, oh, I have nothing worth saying, therefore I am afraid or anxious or I shouldn't speak up, but it's actually the other way around. It's really tricky, subtle. Yeah. Because our mind always makes us think that it's logical. But I actually think the root of that is your insecurity. I guess that you have a lot to contribute. I don't think that you

randomly become stupid in groups of people. Now, there may be like a certain amount of ADHD where you're not able to attend to what everyone is saying. Like, that's totally fine. But I think that you probably have a lot to contribute, but it's that your insecurity becomes active in that situation. What do you think about that? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and that that's something that I've sort of realized in the past like year or so is that and I think a me being on YouTube has actually made it a lot worse. But I've realized that I'm way more of an insecure person than I thought I was. And there's like a lot that I that I like hold back and there's a lot that I like hold back and there's a lot that I, like, I don't open up to a ton of people.

I think, like, for me to, like, truly open up and talk about stuff that I am insecure about, like, that's a really hard thing for me to do. And, like, a lot of times I will just hold back because, yeah, because I'm insecure about it. Okay. Ethan, I'm going to need a minute. Can I have a minute? Oh, yeah. I just love what, like, oh, man.

Okay. I think, I think I'm finally. getting a sense of maybe how we can take this conversation today, okay? I just need a second to make sure we can, you know, I can try to tie this together. Okay. Cool. So I'm excited to get into it. Oh, buddy. It's going to be walking a tight road. Oh, yeah. Okay. Here's my proposal. Now, the downside is going to be that I may be talking more than you. So you got to let me know if that rubs you the wrong way. Okay. It does not. We're going to start with your insecurity. We're going to start by understanding what is like, like so you know when we say the

insecurity activates in a particular environment, it's going to start very, very simple with principles of not quite psychology. This is really more of like yoga and meditation, about the way that the mind works. So what I want to hypothesize to you and we'll explain this in more detail is that you're like a confident, secure person generally speaking, okay? But that in some circumstances, your mind activates insecurity.exe. And then like you become like this person that you used to be. And like, you know, even though you're successful and people like you have these like, you know, really risky broad creative pursuits.

Like I've, you were the first content creator I have ever heard of that intentionally deletes a year of their life and what they put in. It is so incredibly wild and courageous. It's so authentic. and it's so ballsy, right? That's like, look at the scrot upon that guy. So we know that there's this huge, like, we know that there's this you who's like grown a lot. The problem is that, like, you have this thing that you carry with you, this insecurity that like is always at the back of your mind, you're stupid. And sometimes it becomes more active. And when it becomes active,

it shapes your thoughts. It says, oh, like, I shouldn't speak up here. So we're going to start by sort of explaining how that works in the mind. The second thing that we're going to do, do is segue that into YouTube and Imposter Syndrome. So once we understand what that insecurity thing is, we're going to take a look at sort of like science and social media and things like that and see what YouTube and social media does to this basic psychology you have and how that results in imposter syndrome. Then we're going to talk a little bit about how opening up is difficult. And the crocks here, and I'm, you know, I'm really building a house of cards that could come tumbling down. Okay. So bear with me. So this is where like we're going to talk a little bit about like the more that that essentially YouTube inflates both your success and your insecurity because they both rise together, which I know is weird.

But that's really what we see. That makes opening up difficult because like as you start to become a YouTuber and you start to see that there's two Ethan's. Right. There's the Ethan who's like a badass who's been YouTubeing for nine years and is confident and knows that they're they're. worth their weight and gold. And then there's like this other Ethan that's like, well, what if everyone just thinks I'm an idiot? And if I open my mouth, they're going to think I'm stupid and it's all going to come crumbling down. And it's that, it's that dichotomy, which makes it hard for you to open up because like, what if they see the other one? What if it actually is that,

Ethan? Like, then what? And so then what happens is you start to like be inauthentic. You start to hide yourself. You start to, you know, like, you're doing the, like when you were a little kid and you wanted to be loud and you wanted people to like see who you are, I don't think that's like quite, you know, attention is one thing. I think you have another way to think about is I think you genuinely have something that you want to share with the world. And so the more you, it makes opening up difficult, the more you're closing yourself off with like what you show to the world. And this is where we get to the personal growth part, which is like we sort of end the journey with sort of understanding that like if you want to grow as a person and if you want the

courage to take those creative pursuits, you have to show people the ugly side of you. You have to be willing to show everything that you have to like the world. And if you can do that, then I think you're going to find like you're going to start creating more content that's creatively fulfilling. Yeah. How does that sound? This sounds like a great plan. Okay.

All right. So let's start with the insecurity. Okay. So let's start by understanding this kind of thing. So we're going to start with the insecurity. So when you feel, so does it kind of make sense that the insecurity is like a program that activates in your mind and kind of takes over your thought process? Yeah. So can you give me an example of like what situation? Like can you give us like share a specific example of like when you felt like, you know, stupid. EXE was activating? There's so many examples. Yeah, I mean, like, I like any conversation, honestly. There's so many times where it happens. You know, if somebody is, I don't know,

basically if somebody's talking about anything other than like YouTube stuff or like cameras or gymnastics. I used to be a gymnast. Anything other than that, it's pretty much like out of my wheelhouse, if I'm being

honest. And so there's a lot of times where I feel like I can't weigh in on stuff. And to give you some history, like I was a gymnast from when I was 8 until 17. I worked out five days a week,

three and a half to four hours a day. And then when I was 15, I started YouTube. And so I was splitting my time between YouTube school and gymnastics. And I didn't really have any social life at all. And then I got really shitty grades. And my mom was like, you have to stop gymnastics or school. Or sorry, gymnastics or YouTube. And so I chose to continue YouTube. And so. Can you tell me about that conversation? Yeah. It was. was my sophomore year, I think. Yeah, end of sophomore year, my mom found out that I got two Ds on my finals.

I got like, I got like a B multiple Cs and two Ds on my finals. And she like freaked out about it. Because basically all I cared about was YouTube and gymnastics. I didn't care about school. which looking back like why should I have cared about school because it wasn't it was an environment that made me feel uncomfortable in so many different ways um and so she she got really upset about it and she was like okay you have to take school more seriously you can't be doing all this stuff you're juggling way too much you have to pick two of these one of them has to be school um and how did you feel that was the first time i ever had a panic attack Um, I like completely broke down. Like I was like, like, like, it was really, really bad. Like I was like screaming, like screaming, like screaming crying. Uh, because I just didn't know how to handle that because that, uh, I think it was a couple things. One, because I loved both of these things so much. But in the back of my mind, I knew that I was about to choose YouTube and gymnastics was like this huge thing. Like, it really shaped who I am as a person. And knowing that I was about to give that up, just, like, completely, like, shattered me.

Okay. So what was so devastating about? Because I'm going to use the word sentence. Yeah. Because it sounds like sentencing to me. Yeah. Like, I'm envisioning you, like, almost being, like, in a courtroom where there's, like, your mom with a gavel and she's like, yeah.

It's kind of what it was like. Which child will you execute? Yeah. What was that? What was, what caused the panic attack for lack of a better term? I know it's kind of a weird question because I think that you just phrased it really well. It was like I'm killing one of, I'm killing myself off, like this version of myself. And I have to choose which person to put the, to point the gun at.

And like that, that was something, especially at that age too, like, I. I just didn't know how to, how to handle that. And I, like, looking back, I, I solved that problem really well. I think I was like, okay, well, let's look at my future. Like, if you're going to be like a career gymnast, like, your career kind of stops when you're, like, 25, 26, because your body can't handle it anymore. So really, like, where can you go from there? after that, like, maybe you get some sponsorships, but then you kind of, like, become a coach, and that's kind of it.

And then I was like, but with this other thing, like, maybe I could go more into film and like, blah, la, la, so I was like, okay, this one's better for my future. Okay, beautifully said, okay? So this is what, oh, crap. So I would love Ethan, boy, man, this is one of those interviews where I really wish we had like five hours because there's so much to dig into here. Because I think there's more to it. So I'm going to just like jump to the punchline here.

And the punchline is a hypothesis because we don't really. No, but I think there's another element, right? It's not just which, where do you point the gun? It's also like what you are like, who is your mom? So, so what I want you to think about for a second is what is your mom. So your mom is asking you to point the gun. But she's also asking you to not only kill off a part of yourself. What is she asking you to become?

Yeah, so she wants me to become a good student at the end of the day. That's what she wants you to become. So she's asking you to become a student. What is she sentencing you to? I mean, she's basically asking me to like choose the version of myself, to pick the version of myself that I want to. be, I guess. And then... Nope. She's not.

She's not. No. She's asking you to make the choice that you don't want to be. She sent it... Because are you going to be a good student? No. I still was not a good student after that. Right? And I think you understood that. And so it's not just like getting rid of gymnastics or YouTube. It's like forcing you to like... So there's two Ethan's right. There's the Ethan who can be proud of what they accomplish. There's like the YouTube Ethan and the gymnast Ethan

And I like those are those are good Ethan's Yeah Tell me about Ethan the student I mean I just didn't care at all So there was there was a few reasons why I didn't care So number one reason was because YouTube and gymnastics was just everything That's where my passion was

I wasn't passionate about anything in school. Like, I wasn't learning anything that I was interested in. And then the environment that I was in was, was I went to, like, the best public school in the area or whatever. And so they were really proud of the people that went to their school. And it was always like, oh, like, all 99.9% of our students going to college and, like, blah, blah, blah, blah. and like being in that environment and knowing that so many people around me were these like grade A students and like we're going on to these big universities. And then and again, me being like, well, shit, like I feel stupid all the time and I'm getting bad grades.

And I'm like I didn't feel like and I think that this is true for a lot of kids. like I didn't feel like I was a part of the school in a lot of ways because I didn't do anything at school like I wasn't a part of any clubs I didn't do any sports through the school I went to school when I had to I left immediately I didn't hang out with anybody

because I didn't have time because I was too busy doing YouTube and gymnastics which also looking back is like I was a really really passionate and dedicated kid to what I cared about. And I think that in the environment that I was in, like, that was kind of hard to find, actually. And I remember one of the proudest moments, I think, was a couple years after I graduated and I was doing YouTube and I was working full time as a manager at a restaurant. And I was making two videos every day. And my dad told me that he's never met

somebody that works as hard as I do. And like that, that, like, that made me just, like, explode. What does that mean? Just like hearing that, hearing that

one at all, after I just kind of felt like I was a fuck up for a really long time because I wasn't traditionally doing well because I got shitty grades and I didn't participate in school. and hearing somebody be like seeing somebody recognize how hard I worked and especially that being my dad was just like really really huge and my dad and I have a really great relationship and he's someone that I really really really look up to and so hearing that come from him just it was really really really big for me big in what way just really validating that like the time that I'm had spent working as hard as I did because I at the time I was working full time at the restaurant so 40 plus hours a week I was waking up at like 4 30 or 5 a.m. every day to record

videos before work and then I would get back it was very unhealthy at the time but I would get back from work and then be editing until like midnight or one and I would do that like almost every day for a really long time and so just having somebody validate that and say like hey, I recognize how hard you're working, but also on top of that, like, you are one of the hardest working people that I know. And it was also, I don't remember if he actually did say it, but I mean, it kind of goes along with what he said anyway. It was just like having somebody say, I'm proud of you was just like really, really big for me. And I don't know. I think everybody loves that, having somebody validate, you know, what they're doing and having somebody say,

hey, I'm proud of you. Don't, Ethan, don't do the mistake of, you know, I didn't like it when you compared yourself to everyone there. I think don't cheapen your experience and how significant it was for you by just saying, you know, everyone likes to be told they're proud. Like, I don't think that's what happened there. You didn't just get told you were proud. So here's how I'd understand your situation.

So like your mom like was telling like like so there's two ethans right there's the Ethan who's like passionate and like good at stuff and then there's the Ethan at Ethan who's like sort of a failure and you say that you didn't care about school and that's why you did bad that's another thing where I would encourage you to see if it's the other way around because it's really hard to be a kid who feels like you're stupid who's surrounded by and you're giving us a lot here right so like let's just think about I'm just going to tell you what I heard. Like, you're a kid who knows.

Like, you don't know you've got ADHD, but like, you just know that this is the best public school and that people are going to go off to college and they get all A's and then there's you. And what's wrong with you, Ethan? Why can't you get good grades? Because you're stupid.

You're a stupid kid. And that's, and so, like, it's hard to be invested in something that you don't believe that you can do. Yeah. I don't think that the care, like, I don't think you did bad.

because you didn't care. I think you probably, when you were five and six and seven, you tried really, really hard and your mind did not comply. Yeah. And so to, like,

it's one thing to, like, so it's almost protective to stop caring. Because if you did care about school, what would that mean for you? Mm-hmm. I think that that,

if I did care, like, that probably would have fucked me up way more. Absolutely. Right? So not caring. is not the reason you didn't do good at school. Not caring is the adaptation for not doing good at school. And then here's your mom and she's saying, here's the gun, you pick, which one goes. But it's more than that.

Because it's not that you're just getting rid of one. It's that she's forcing you to be stupid, Ethan. She's like, here's this kid that is like bright and talented and is a good gymnast and is doing well on YouTube and is passion about that. this stuff. And she's like, I'm going to take one of those away and I'm going to force you to be crappy, Ethan, 50% of the time. And now we get to this story with your dad because it's not just like, oh, like, everyone enjoys being validated. Oh, yeah, my dad tells me I'm proud makes me feel good. Like, I completely agree. Like, you know, everyone feels good. But I think it's actually like, it's so much, like it brings me to tears, man. Like, you know, like that kid is like, you know, they're struggling hard, right? Like, it hasn't been easy for you. And to have like your dad

recognize that like you're not dumb like it's just you're like working so hard it's like immense it becomes incredibly powerful it's not just being told sorry i'm getting myself i'm just thinking i thought i was going to be the one crying i'm i told you i was going to talk a lot today so i'm going to do the crying too um but i think i think it's like it feels really significant to me because it's this moment where you were seen right it's this moment where you were like appreciated. And this is going to all tie back in imposter syndrome. And like what I was saying at the beginning about, or not in beginning, but earlier, where like, I think what you need to do to create is to like let people see you.

You know, like you need to give people the chance to like do what your dad. Like you need to put yourself out there, right? And let people see you. And then in terms of imposter syndrome, there's also something very clear about, you know, being in this straight A school or whatever and being the one kid with D's and whatnot. So like maybe you felt like an imposter's there. I think there are a couple of themes which we can touch on. And does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.

That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Okay. I'm just thinking about it. Yeah. Why don't you just take a second and then let me know when we're ready to move on or if you have questions or want to try to recap? It's very interesting thinking about it in the way that you presented it of like, my mom forcing me to to kill off a version of myself and like I also recognize that it was like my mom having to make a really hard decision to sure because like because I it was bad for me like to be juggling all of all of that stuff and like I I looking back I don't think like my mom was the bad guy or anything like that but but it was it really was her being like all right like I almost

in a way, wish she would have just said, okay, no more gymnastics or no more YouTube, because I feel like not having a choice in that circumstance, like, having the weight of the decision not be on me, I think would have been so much easier. And again, I think that's why I freaked out, was like, I have to make this choice. Yeah, absolutely, right? So when you talk about a panic attack, I think it's not surprising. Because I think that, like, in that moment, your mind understood, like, what future, like, there's a door, the door to your bright future is being closed and you're being, like, put on this path of, like, academia and, like, failure. And, like, it makes perfect sense to me that you had a panic attack.

And I also want to say, like, as a disclaimer here, so, Sometimes when we talk about parents, we make it seem like they're evil. I don't think your mom was evil or bad by any. I think parents do what they think is best for their kids. And sometimes it's inevitable, but like we're going to psychologically traumatize our children no matter how much we love them. And that's just the nature of life. It's the nature of our mind. Seriously, I'm not kidding.

Yeah. Yeah. You know? And so the parents did the best that they could. And they also, I'm sure that your mom did a lot of wonderful stuff for you too. And so, you know, I just want to be clear that I don't think she was a bad person or anything. It's just like, you know, her kid is doing too much and they're failing out of school. And like, you know, being a YouTuber wasn't a thing back then.

Yeah. So it's not like there's actually, you know, so your mom was just doing what she thought was best. And sometimes it's the little things that can actually be like psychologically very difficult. So now I'm going to, we're going to go to. Can we move on phase two? Yeah. Okay. So we talked a little bit about feelings.

So here's Ethan. Okay. And then so here's like there's like this whole complex of gymnast. Oh shit. So you have to excuse me. So I don't know if you know this, but I'm a physician, which means that I have terrible handwriting. All right. Okay.

So this is the Ethan, right? And then there's school. So here you are at the age, a sophomore year. And then your mom has this conversation. And then you have this panic attack. Yeah. Okay. So and then what is like what are you feeling in the panic attack? Do you remember?

Yeah, it was the first time that I'd ever felt like overwhelming emotions like that. Yeah. I remember I grabbed onto a lamp that we had that had like three three sort of prongs that that went out to hold the lampshade. and I just grabbed that and I just squeezed it as hard as I could and it was metal. And like that's all I could do was just like squeeze the lamp while I was lying on the floor. Okay. And then you even that's kind of all I remember. Yep.

And then you remember like do you remember when you kind of reconstituted? Like you said like you made this calculated decision and you kind of calmed down quickly. Was that the same day or next day or what? It was the same day. It was over the course of like a couple hours, I think, of like actually calming down because I just kind of like laid on the floor and like hyperventilated for a while. And I remember my mom, my dad was at work and she called my dad and she was in the other room, but I could hear her. And she was like, hey, I need you to come home. Like, I just had this conversation with Ethan and he's freaking out.

And like it's really, really bad. And I need you to come home. Okay. And I remember like by the time. that my dad got home, I was like winding down. I was still probably like hyperventilating and like sobbing a little bit, but like the main part of it was was sort of over. Yeah. So as you start to rationalize, where does that emotion go? Um, I mean, it sort of went into, um, it was more like analytical and me being like, okay, here, here are my options and just sort of like, in my brain sort of lining everything out of like, I was kind of doing like the doctor strange, like infinite universe kind of thing,

where I was just like, all right, how many circumstances can I make in my brain with the options that I have and what is the best outcome? Okay, I'm going to choose this outcome. I was sort of doing that kind of thing. And so I think rationalizing it actually probably helped me calm down a lot as soon as I started to think about it that way.

Sure. Makes perfect sense. Okay, so I'm going to give you a quick scenario. Normally, I run through this in a little bit more detail, but we're just going to get to the... So, like, this is the example that I like to use. So let's say I'm walking down the street with my five-year-old, and she sees a dog, and she tries to pet it, and the dog bites her. What happens to her emotionally? She's going to be traumatized, and she's probably going to cry.

Yep, right. So she's crying. And then I kind of calm her down a little bit. And then I ask her if she wants ice cream. Right? So I distract her. Hey, do you want ice cream? And she's like, yes, definitely.

Five minutes later, she's eating ice cream and she's happily talking to me about princesses. Make sense? Yeah. Crying emotion is gone, right? What happens the next time she sees a dog? She's going to probably get afraid that she's going to get bitten again. Okay. So where is that emotion coming from?

It's coming from the trauma that she had with the dog in the back? Perfect. Right. So now I want you to understand this. So now why is that emotion? So I want you to think about it this way. So this emotion gets stored into our unconscious mind. Does that make sense?

Mm-hmm. And then what causes the emotion to like cross over into the conscious mind? mine by seeing the thing that made her feel that feeling very good so let's think about like a triggering environment does that make sense yep

and so like I know this sounds kind of weird I keep on insisting on using this example but if you go to let's say a hotel let's say you're traveling Ethan and you walk into the public restroom of the hotel and how do you know how to operate a toilet that you've never seen before? Because most toilets are the same. Exactly.

So where does that knowledge about the toilet come from? My past. Absolutely. And what causes you, like, so I know this sounds kind of weird, but like, are you thinking about flushing the toilet before you see the toilet? No. Right? So, like, there's this very simple principle of the mind that it's skin. and this is something that the intellect does or the budi,

it scans your environment and it kind of says like, okay, what is the appropriate experience that we need to activate to help us deal with the situation? Does that make sense? Yeah. Works for toilets, works for trauma.

It's the same thing. It's a very fundamental idea of mind. So then the question becomes, you know, so now you say to yourself, so now we're going to kind of like reconceptualize this a little bit, okay? So you say to yourself, I know I'm smart. Right? Damn it.

Can I do this? Okay. It looks like I just can't do this. Okay, whatever. So you know you're smart. And yet there are times where you feel stupid. So how does that work? So we have our monas, which is our emotional mind, our Ahamkara, which is our ego.

And our buddi, which is our intellect. And there are certain environments. So you essentially have a stored emotion of stupidness. And like it like even though it's not active most of the time, like you know you're smart. Like you know like logically like your intellect is concluded that you're a worthwhile dude. But essentially you have this thing called a sum scar, which is essentially that balled up undigested and emotional energy of feeling stupid. And there are certain times in your life where your brain is scanning the environment. like when you're with a group of people and it's like, oh, shit.

Yeah. This is when we're stupid. Because if I had to guess, I'm sure we could find lots of instances of you sitting in a classroom with lots of people talking about stuff that you may not know what they're talking about. And the teacher calls on you and you feel really, really dumb. Yeah. And like, when you feel really, really dumb, like, where does that feeling go?

How long do you feel dumb for when you're in? that classroom? I mean, I think that that feeling was just kind of always there. Like the dread of being called on because I was like nine times out of 10, I'm not going to know what we're talking about. And I'm not going to be able to contribute. So it just kind of was constantly there.

Let me ask you, Ethan, when you were in a group of people, who are talking about something, does your mind tell you, I don't really know what we're talking about? I'm not going to be able to contribute. Yeah, it kind of does a lot of times. So, like, it's weird, right? It's like the same damn thoughts that you used to have in the classroom.

You now have in groups of people. Is that why I still have nightmares about high school? Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Absolutely. So nightmares. So now we get to, okay, great, great point because this is a deviation that we haven't talked about. So this is what I want you to understand. Okay. So in our emotional mind, you have this experience of sadness feeling stupid. Actually, let's call it feeling stupid, not sadness, okay? And then what happens is that like your mind distracts yourself in some way or you use rationalization. And then this thing goes dormant. Okay. Let's say this is the line of your conscious mind. Okay? And it gets stored as this thing called a somscar, which is like this ball of undigested emotional energy, which then gets recalled at particular times.

You with me so far? Yeah. Okay. And so now the question is like, then how do we ever get rid of this? Right? Because like, like it's kind of interesting. So this is where, you know, now if you were to, if you were to be in. an experience where you felt stupid, what would you do with, like, what would you do?

I know this sounds kind of weird, but we've talked about when you were 15 and when you were like eight. But like now if something bad happens to you, like, what's something bad that's happened to you recently? Can you, do you mind sharing anything? It can be anything. Anything that. It can be even a tiny thing, like any negative emotion that you had recently.

I mean, just being. sick count? Not really. I'm trying to think of any... I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot. No, it's totally fun. Oh, I was

moving out of my old apartment and because I just moved kind of recently and I still had a bunch of shit there that I had to deal with and it was just super, super stress for me to have to like go back there and deal with stuff that was still there. And what did you do with those emotions?

I know it sounds like kind of a weird question because we don't even realize what we do with the emotions, but like, I tend to just kind of like hold on to them and not like I'm going to be upset all day, but I just kind of like it's almost like I'm absorbing them and just like Yeah. Okay. That's, okay. So we're going to have to teach you a different way. Yeah. So here's what tends to happen. As we get older, so if we look at like the psychiatry and psychology, right? Most of the time, like the money's in childhood. And the reason for that is because as we grow older, our ability to process emotions improves.

Like if I'm walking down the street and I get bit by a dog, like what kind of thoughts do you, like what's my initial reaction? I mean, at least for me, if I get bit by, I'm probably just going to get like upset and like angry. Yep. And then what are you going to do? Rather than, rather than cry. Sure. And then what happens? And you just walk away, I guess. Sure. Right. So like, like you kind of walk away and okay, maybe this is what we need to work on a little bit. So like this is also where like, you know, most adults will do some amount of processing. Right. Like so in the same way. So we can talk about this in terms of stupidity. Actually, we have a good. example of this, where you sort of rationally look at your situation and you kind of say like, oh, actually, I'm not stupid. I just feel stupid right now, but like I actually have a lot that I'm, you know, I contribute to people, et cetera, et cetera. Does that sort of make sense? So there's this process of like actually digesting or metabolizing emotions. So this is what psychotherapy is.

So when you go and you talk to a counselor and you like talk about your feelings, it's kind of weird. Like, how does that help people? Like, what is the mechanism through which talking about the bad in your life actually like helps you in any way, shape, or form. Because a lot of times people will think about the bad things in their life. It doesn't help them at all. It just makes them feel worse. So there's actually this process of metabolizing and digesting your negative emotions. And the more that you do that, the more you're kind of free of those somscars.

So if I get bit by a dog and I kind of like process it, then like I'm not, I'm not going to get triggered by the dog anymore. And I'm sure if we like tunnel down enough, I can ask you enough open end of questions that, you know, it's hard to lead you in the right direction. But I'm sure if you look it in your life, you'll see that there are times where you felt emotionally bad and you like did the work of talking it through with a friend or you like went for a long hike or like you did something, right? You didn't just shove it aside. You didn't stick it under the rug. But you actually spent some time grieving. So grieving is another good example of this emotional processing thing. where like some people don't grieve and then they stay stuck.

Does that make sense? Because that ball of emotional energy that some scar is just living down there and grieving is how we like get over it. Psychotherapy is how we get over it. Okay. So let me just think about where I wanted to go with this. Any questions about this? Does this make sense?

Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense. And it's making me think about like how I, because specifically for anger, when I get angry, I've learned how to deal with that. And I don't, I rarely ever get angry. But like, when I get really mad or frustrated now, I'll go and work out or I'll go running because it's just like a way for me to get a lot of energy out really quick. And that's sort of how I process that.

But I don't have that for any other emotion. Yep. That's very, very well said. So the other thing, beautiful. Ethan. So good. Okay. So a couple of principles.

Your body and your mind are connected. Right. So there's like, there's like, a pseudo-scientific practice called tapping or the emotional freeing technique, which now actually has a little bit of data behind it, which is like a technique that people use for trauma, which actually now has clinical trials that show it's like it actually does something. So the idea is that like it's kind of weird because it sounds super pseudoscientific. And what people do is like there are these people who are tapers.

And what they literally do is they just like tap on parts of your body to like free the pent-up emotions. Kind of like acupuncture or something? Sort of. I think acupuncture uses a different, a whole different modality, but yeah. Yeah. So, and the point here, though, is that like physical, and we know that, for example, the diagnostic criteria for anxiety includes muscle tension. So there's clearly a connection between your body and your mind, and you can actually process emotions physically if you want to. That's a completely valid. It doesn't have to be psychotherapy. You can actually go and, like, hike and climb mountains and that will help you like process your emotions.

The other interesting way that the mind processes emotions, which is I think what your mind has learned how to do, is dreams and nightmares. So every time you have a nightmare about that, I know it's unfortunate, but like my hope is that you're digesting a little bit and there are actually particular techniques that we can do. I can walk you through those. Maybe that's aren't going to be our meditation for the day at the end of the day about how to like think about nightmares and how to like work with them a little bit so that like you sort of use that nightmare to like do the emotional processing and let it go because your body and your mind are going to do whatever they can to heal like if you get a cut it's just going to try to heal and your mind does

the same thing it does the best that it can so it'll and and so if you have nightmares about how often you have nightmares by the way um i mean i don't have nightmares all that often um the like school ones, the like stress dream kind of things. I'll have like maybe once every few weeks or once a month maybe. Yeah. So I think that's just like your your brain is like you still have that pent up emotion. I know it sounds kind of weird, but in the nightmare. So our when you're in the nightmare is the nightmare real? No. Or like is it is like what's happening? Something. that actually happened? Is that where you're asking?

Is your experience of it real? I mean, yeah, because I'll wake up and feel stressed. Yep. So, like, and even then, like, the emotions that you feel in a nightmare, are they real? Yeah. It's bizarre, right? Yeah. But absolutely.

So I think, like, this is your, and if we think about, like, this emotional catharsis and when people, like, come into my office and they start crying, like, what we're doing is bringing those emotions back to. into the conscious mind so that we can experience them, process them, and let them go. And so I think that your mind has just learned how to do this through a nightmare because you don't know how to do it other ways. Or maybe you haven't, I don't know if you see a therapist or not, but like, you know, that's another way. I would suspect that if you start going to therapy, I'm assuming that you don't already, but that if you start to- I just, I just stopped going

to therapy, actually. I just like took a break because doing stuff over Zoom every week, like, I couldn't like get into the right like mindset every week. And so until I can go back in person, we, we took a little bit of a break. But I just stopped going like a few weeks ago. Good, good. I think taking a break from therapy is like important too. Like it should be part of your vacation. But anyway, so hopefully you can kind of work on some of those things there.

But I think it sort of makes sense to me that you have nightmares about this sort of stuff. Yeah. So the just to kind of summarize. so, Ethan, do you mind just sharing with me what you've taken away from the conversation so far, like key points that... Yeah, I mean, the sort of realization of, like, having to, like, kill a version of me off,

I think has, like, affected me a lot more than I initially thought. And, like, and I think I get this for my dad, but, like, I very much don't process my emotions. Like, something will happen to me, and I'll just kind of brush it off. And I also just like, we'll kind of roll over for people too. What is that?

Well, just like, I don't know. I don't, I don't like stand up for myself all that much. And also, I don't know how to say no to anybody, which is something that I've been sort of like working on. And I think that's part of me, my insecurity, is like I don't want, this is something I've actually talked to my therapist a lot about, is that I don't want people to think that I'm an asshole.

And so if somebody asked me to do something, I'll just like kind of bend over backwards for them and be like, oh yeah, of course, because I don't want them to think I'm a dick. Okay, I'm curious, did you feel pressure to come on here today? No. Okay. Would you tell me if you did?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm very excited. Okay. Because I would hate to, I would hate to, you know, have you bend over backwards for, you know. Okay. So, so really, I'm glad that, so now I'm going to give you a choice.

So what I'm actually hearing, Ethan, is that the biggest thing that was helpful for you was sort of this realization about your mom and sort of being, you know, forced to looking for the right word, amputate a part of yourself. Yeah. And so now, you know, I had sketched out this beautiful plan, but I'm wondering if we. if we should actually abandon it and just maybe like dig for a couple more of those gems. Like what do you think? We can go down our standard track of, okay, here's the way that some scars work. This feeling of insecurity is essentially like pent up emotions from these past times that then activate. We can now move on to like YouTube and think a little bit about how that entire process is exacerbated by social media. Then we can talk about how opening up

is difficult. And then we can sort of talk about, you know, becoming your best self. or we can dig for gems What do you want to do? We can do either of those Your time, bro I'm gonna force you to choose Oh shit, no I'm not No, I can't

Oh fuck I'm so sorry I'm so sorry Ethan I didn't meet too Okay Oh God Wait You don't have to choose

You choose Do you want to choose? No, not really Okay, I will choose for you Okay, let's stick with our original thing. Okay. I'm so sorry, Ethan. Oh, God, please.

That's very funny. I didn't mean to. All right. So let's talk about YouTube. So you say that you suffer from imposter syndrome, or maybe something like that. What do you mean by that? So definitely over the past year,

because the channel that I was doing with a friend of mine, like really boosted. my career a lot and boosted my own channel and everything. And so I just sort of feel like, um, just kind of standard imposter syndrome of like the things that I have I don't deserve. Or, um, I think a lot of, um, I think a lot about like why am I in this scenario and like, uh,

you know, a lot of, a lot of people in my life, especially over the past year have had really shitty things happen in them. and here I am like, you know, on paper like living the dream in Los Angeles and so it's a lot of like

why am I this person that's experiencing this and there's a lot of guilt that I that I feel with the success that I have and I don't feel that I deserve it basically.

Do you feel like you don't deserve it from like a cosmic sense or Or do you feel like people haven't figured out that you don't make good content yet? Oh, I think, I think it's the latter. It's in my mind, like, there's so many other people that make way better stuff than I do. Like, I don't think that I'm particularly interesting or that I, and again, this is something that I'm working on with my therapist of like, I don't feel like I'm working. of people's time most of the time.

So I'm noticing a couple of different things and I wouldn't call all of them imposter syndrome, okay? So can I try to tease apart, untangle this ball of yarn? So when I think about imposter syndrome, so here's, for better or for worse, I feel like I'm understand it quite well now. You know, we've worked with a lot of streamers and we have like a program with Twitch where we support content creators. And so one of the things that when I think about imposter syndrome, I'm going to use sort of this Eastern kind of conception of it as well. So we have an internal sense of self, right? And this is the way that you view yourself.

And we have the way that the world treats us. And so the way that I view myself is different from the way that the world treats me. Does that make sense? Generally speaking, though, actually, so let's go back to your dad for a second. So there are times where, like, harmony is built when these two things are even. So I think, like, the significance of, like, your dad talent, like, appreciating you for who you are is, like, you knew deep down that you were working really, really hard and you were trying. And so you had this view of yourself, but what did the world think of you? That I was a failure.

Right. So, but, like, the world kept on telling you were a failure. Does waking up at 4.30 in the morning making you two. videos going to work and then coming back home and editing them, if I describe that to someone, like what adjectives would you use to describe that person? Like hardworking and dedicated and probably successful. Passionate, right? Yeah.

So there's a, there's a, there's a disconnect between your internal sense and what the world is telling you. That can be very devastating for people. And then here comes your dad and he's like, he's a signal from the outside world. that aligns with like your passion and your dedication. And so it can feel really good. So in that situation, your self-esteem is up here. The world is treating you down here.

And so that's kind of feels bad, man, right? Impostas syndrome is this. It's when you have a sense of yourself, like you're just like an ordinary guy, like you're a 24-year-old Ethan. You know, there's some things you're good at, some things you're not great at. And the world is like, oh my God. it's it's Ethan he's so great like look at this school stuff he's doing all the time man oh my god I love Ethan and then you're like wait a minute hold on a second yeah you know so what I see an

imposter syndrome and I see it a lot at places so I teach at Harvard medical school and like I see it a lot there bizarrely and you'd think that like you know like what's the correlation between success and imposter syndrome and generally speaking the more successful people are the more that they feel imposter syndrome and and essentially what happens is like generally speaking our internal sense of self and external sense of self tend to like stick with each other. So if you think about a standard person, it's like, oh, you know, I'm a high school student. I feel terrible. And then you like become a freshman in college. And once you're a freshman in college, you feel like a nobody, like you're a freshman, you're a new.

And then you go back home for Christmas. And then you hang out with people who are one or two years younger than you. And then like, then you feel like a big swinging dick, you know? Yeah. It's like, Look at all these high school plebs and like, I'm in college now, bitches. And so there's kind of this weird, like this slow growth, right? And then you finish high school and then you go back and like you like do a career panel for like high school. I mean, sorry, you finish college and then you get a job and then you're like 24 and you go back and you like do some career panel at the guidance office or whatever. And there are all these 21 year olds and like you're a 24 year old and you're like paying your own rent. And then you like feel like someone.

Right. But you're the most junior person. the company. So you don't feel like much there. So generally speaking, there's like an even sense of like societal respect with like an internal sense of value because that's the way that we're sort of designed. We're not designed to like inherit vast amounts of success over brief periods of time because things like social media like I don't know if this makes sense, but you know 10,000 years ago you couldn't blow up in your tribe. Yeah. There's only like so big that you could get right and so like sure like you could maybe like you single-handedly kill the tiger and then everyone's

like yay and then you're like yay look at how awesome I am and like 15 people think you're great yeah and so our brains are just not designed like the concept of blowing up was not technologically possible yeah in the environment like you go look at a tribe of like a pack of deer right like how how much can their social status change yeah very little Right. And so like, enter YouTube, where suddenly now we have these things where like people get elevated a lot. So have you heard of a company called Goldman Sachs? You know what? Yeah. Okay. So like I also work with a fair number of people at Goldman. And like Goldman is sort of like it's like a platinum tier investment bank. It's where everyone wants to go. They're like super famous, super rich, whatever. And so we see a ton of imposter syndrome before like when I'm working with a 22 year old who's applying to be in Goldman. He's like at the top of his class, he's the most. most competitive, he feels really good about himself. And then when he lands at Goldman, within six months, he's got imposter syndrome. Because then when he introduces himself to people,

and he's like, oh, I work at Goldman. And then everyone's like, oh. Yeah. And then he's like, but wait a minute, because he's like the most junior kid on the totem pole. So every day when he goes to work, he feels like clueless. And here he is getting all this external respect. Yeah. So bizarrely, what I see an imposter syndrome is like when there's when there's a quick elevation, the imposter syndrome gets worse because then you're kind of confused because everyone's treating you like you're the best thing since sliced bread. But like, I know this sounds kind of weird, but like you still shit the same every morning. Yeah. Right?

And you're like, wait a minute. Yeah. You know, does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And so that's, I definitely see that. And I think that like basically is if you do like self-reflective work and stuff like that, we can talk about spirituality and stuff. That's one thing. But I'm also detecting something else, which I don't think is imposter syndrome, which is sort of the sense of worthiness, what's fair, do I deserve this?

And I don't really get the sense that I feel like that's a little bit more almost like spiritual in nature. What do you think? Yeah, I'm, so I, I, I, why is that different from imposter syndrome of like, because you sort of described it as like, other people saying like, oh, you're hot shit. really, you're just a normal dude. But how is that sort of different from feeling like, oh, like I have this stuff and I don't feel worthy? Like, why me? Yeah. So the reason I'd say that that's different is one has to do with a comparison.

It may not be different, right? So it may be the same. So I'm kind of proposing to you. But what I'm like, especially when you talked about like other like so if you ask why am I successful and other people are not, that does. doesn't have to come with imposter syndrome. That, I think, is a really, really important question from like a spiritual and karmic perspective.

Like, why do you have the life that you have? And imposter syndrome is about sort of like being afraid that one day everyone's going to wake up and like start to think that like you make crappy content. They know. They've figured it out. Right? So being afraid of them figuring it out is different from like understanding. like, Ethan, why were you given the gifts that you were given?

You know, you say you're ADHD and you have struggles and things like that. Totally get it. But, like, I think you've discovered that you are brilliant. Right? I think that is not a word that I would use to describe myself. But I'm also very, very bad at giving myself any credit at all or saying anything nice about myself. Yeah.

So I think that that feeling of unworthiness, can grow into imposter syndrome, but I think that has deeper roots, dude. Because I think you were taught you were unworthy from a very young age. What do you think about that? Yeah, no, I definitely feel that. And it's so interesting because I don't feel that at all

from my family, because my family has always been, And they've always supported like everything that I've that I've ever done. And like both my parents when when I moved out to LA, they were like, you have to go and do this. Like you need to go and make this leap. You can always come back. But like from kind of everybody else in the outside world, I've always felt like, oh, I'm doing bad and I'm stupid. There it is. So there's the Smskar.

it's the persistent feeling you carry with you. Right? So I think that imposter syndrome can grow on this, but this feels deeper to me than, because like there are a lot of people who blow up and have imposter syndrome, but are like narcissistic pricks who don't bend over backwards for anyone. Right? So I think your particular combination is like an insecurity that predates the YouTube, followed by an explosion of social media where like, you know,

now suddenly everyone's treating you well. And it's like doubly perplexing. because there's the normal dose of imposter syndrome, and that compounds with like the sense of like, am I really good at what I do? Am I really worthy? So now the question becomes, where does that, you know, I'm curious,

what do you think about the content you make? I think it's fine. Honestly, like I think that it's entertaining for people, but it's nothing, it's nothing great. I think that I have made really cool stuff, but, yeah, no, I do think that I just am another dude on YouTube, like making videos, and I think that I'm doing things that anybody can do, and that I'm nothing special, and then I just got lucky,

and I was at the right place at the right time. I could get behind that. Uh-huh. so so i i know this sounds kind of weird but i i think that that's okay what do you think yeah yeah no and like i i think that that's very real where it's just like i do genuinely think that like anybody can do what i do it's not like i do anything profound

and like i like i make decent content and i got really lucky and like i worked really hard and that It worked out somehow. Do you feel unworthy? Um, yes and no. It depends. It kind of depends on the mood that I'm in. Um, because there are parts of me that,

sort of like with this stupidity thing where I can recognize, like I, I busted my ass for years and years and years to like get where I am. Um, but then, there's there's other parts of me that that are like i know people that work so much harder than me and are are you know better people than i am and you know why don't why aren't they where i'm where i'm at why was i the person that got got handed this i don't feel like i deserve it okay

so i don't know why even but i'm just kind of in a teaching mode today and and maybe it's because you're working with a therapist but you seem very insightful to me. So I want to give you some stuff to kind of think about as opposed to like maybe like meet you where you're at, which is normally what I do. So here's here's what I'd recommend to you. And this is part of the process of like helping people overcome imposter syndrome. Why do you compare? So that's that's something that I have a really hard time is I'm constantly comparing myself to others. And I think it's because of like the people that are in my. friend group and like specifically on YouTube like most of the people that I'm surrounded by are these insanely successful talented people and I constantly feel like a that I'm always overshadowed by them and that I will never be able to escape that shadow ever and I'll always just be that dude that's friends with X and also

what was the other point that I was going to make? I'll ask the question again. Yeah. Why do you always compare? Oh, yeah. That's the other thing is that people always compare me to them all the time. It's like, okay, Ethan did this, this person did that. Or like, I wish these people would do these things together or whatever.

And it's always people comparing me to my friends. And so I always feel like I I always compare myself to the people that I'm around because other people do that to me as well. How does it feel to be compared to these other people? There's two sides of it

which are very opposite and conflicting. One part of it is like I'm honored to be even remotely associated with these people because these are people that I look up to and that make some really amazing stuff and that I genuinely like believe in the content that they make and they're talented people. And then the other side of that is the exact opposite where like it can be really degrading where anything that I do is going to be compared to what these other people are doing.

And it really sucks sometimes where it's like, okay, can you just look at the thing that I made without bringing up these other people. Like, not everything that I do has to be connected to these other people. Can I think for a second? Mm-hmm. Now I'm facing the challenge of how to try to condense, you know, weeks of work into like 15 minutes. Because there's definitely a road forward.

I just don't know how to condense it. So let me just see if I can pull this off. Ethan, do you have a particular, if you don't mind sharing, do you have a particular, like, religious or spiritual bend? I'm not religious or spiritual at all Okay All right, let's start with this Who are you?

What a loaded question What's loaded about it? I genuinely don't even know how to answer that Yep I don't even know where to To start answering that Don't worry about being right Yeah

Just tell me who do you Who are you? Um, am I allowed to just use a bunch of adjectives? Absolutely. You're allowed to say whatever you want to. Nothing is wrong with what you were going to say. Cool. Um, I think that like at my core, I'm a very, like, passionate.

Um, and I do think that I'm a very insightful person. Um, yeah, I think, at my core, like, I'm very passionate. And I think that I'm a pretty thoughtful dude. Like, I do go out of my way for the people that I care about a lot. And, um, yeah. So I'm hearing compassionate, insightful, and dedicated. Mm-hmm. Is that fair?

Yeah. I think I'm pretty easygoing, sometimes to a fault. Yep. Yeah. So that's, okay. So here's. I know it sounds kind of weird, but like when I work with people with imposter syndrome, like, I think it ultimately comes down to the ahum gata or the ego, which I don't know if you remember when I drew, but there's like emotional mind, there's the intellectual mind and there's this thing called the ego. And if we think, so the one of the functions of ego is to compare. So like what the ego does when we're feeling bad about ourselves is that it compares us to other people. Sometimes it does so to reinforce the fact that we feel bad about ourselves. But otherwise, it also does it to kind of pump ourselves up.

Yeah. But if you kind of think about it, like, I know this sounds kind of weird, but like, you know, I want you to look at two rocks and like just think about this for a second. And like, you can compare them. You can say one is bigger or smaller, but like it doesn't mean anything. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so I think this is once again where like social media.

reinforces or conditions our mind to compare, and especially when people are making comparisons. So it's almost like there's an assault on your mind, which is increasing your Ahamgar. The interesting thing is a humgar is technically translated as the sense of eye. So sometimes people who have a humpgar, it's not necessarily like ego,

like it's not necessarily that they're egotistical. You can still have a sense of eye that has a very low impression. Like I can beat myself. up a lot. I'm so stupid. I am this. I am this. Or you can be like, I'm the best thing since sliced friend. The yogis would actually say that it's the I am part. That's the problem. What's on the other end of the spectrum is always going to lead to suffering. Whether you say you're the best things since sliced bread and you're super narcissistic, those people suffer immensely. Or you beat

yourself up, those people suffer immensely as well. And so oddly enough, I think that like, your mind can make comparisons, but I think your true freedom and the reason that you're going to continue to have imposter syndrome until you recognize who you are. Because now we get to the punchline, as long as you don't know who you are, where does your sense of identity come from? What other people tell me? Exactly. Right? So this is where like when it comes to your sense of self, ego is when the sense of the self comes from the outside. Oh, Dr. Kay. Oh, Hard word. Hard word. Oh, did you see it? Did you see it?

Harvard. So beautiful. Right. And so like, you know, it's like as long as that's what your identity is based on, like you're going to suffer. And so like even the people at Harvard, like they suffer a lot because there's always, you know, someone higher than them. or even if you rise to the head of a department and you run a division, there are other divisions. And so, like, as long as your sense of identity is based upon comparison, like the imposter syndromes, to a certain degree, going to be there. And so now the question becomes,

how do you discover who you are? Who, no idea. Okay. Close your eyes. Who are you, Ethan? What is your experience? What is your experience of yourself. The first thing that I want to do is just say the things that I already said. Okay. When you asked me before of who am I. Okay. So you can say those things.

So now let's pick insightful. Show me where insightful is. Like in this experience, if this is the only moment that you existed, how would I know that, how would you know that you're insightful? by just the fact that I can reflect, I guess. Okay, good. The experiences that I've had and me as a person. Okay, so that's actually a far better answer than I thought was possible.

It shows that you're insightful. But yeah, but I'm going to say like it goes, it's a little bit weird because I'm going to still tunnel down. So what the real answer is the capacity to reflect. So I want you to notice that. that like, so are you a man? I don't know what your gender identity is, but do you identify as a man? Mm-hmm. How would you know if this is all that existed?

If you were alive for just a moment in time and it was this moment, how would you know that you were a man? Because I think that I'm a man. Okay. But where is the manness in you? I don't know. Right? It's weird. Yeah.

So once again, you gave the right answer, which is a step forward, which is that because you think you're a man. Are you a YouTuber? Yes. How would you know? Because I make content on YouTube. Okay. And were you a YouTuber 15 years ago? No.

Were you you 15 years ago? Yes. well then how does that work then how can being a YouTuber be a part of you yeah because we're constantly growing and changing you're correct we are constantly growing and changing

but who is the you that is constantly growing and changing yeah right so you can open your eyes let's check in how are you feeling right now what are you just how was that for you confusing do you feel

I don't want to, I don't want you to feel stupid, but I understand that we're walking on like very unfamiliar territory. That's difficult for most people. Yeah. No, I don't, I don't feel stupid, actually. Um, genuinely. Um, it's, it's really, really interesting being asked those questions because that's not something that people, like, nobody goes up to somebody and it's like, who are you? Like, deep down, who are you? And so it's really, really weird thinking about that and asking.

And I think that that's most of what therapy is, is just having somebody ask you a question that you need to ask yourself. And asking myself that question and genuinely not really having any idea how to answer it. It's also kind of terrifying being like, oh, I don't really know who I am at my core. And so it's kind of, to answer your question, it's kind of scary. A little bit. Good.

So that's what we want. Because I think that's going to be your road forward. So I'll leave you with a couple of thoughts. So here's the thing, Ethan. You are what you are. And maybe now we'll sort of segue into like, you know, so let's just touch on opening up is difficult. So like you have this idea of all this shit that you are, but you're not any of that stuff. All of the stuff that you're afraid to show other people is not actually who you are.

Because what you are, and this is sort of the yogic perspective, is there's a youness that transcends body. So like when you were a child, you were still you. And when you're an adult, you're still you. But the body has changed. Before you were a YouTuber, you were still you. Right. Like, and after like when you were a tiny YouTuber, you are still you. And now that you're a successful YouTuber, you're still you.

Like you're still that kid who would wake up at 4.30 every day to make videos. That's like, that's. a part of you. There's like a piece of you that wants to like share something with the world. And that part of you doesn't care really about anyone else. It doesn't care about whether you're bigger or smaller or get compared or don't compare it or whatever. Right? Because like I think when you really stop and think about when you make your best content, it is when you are the furthest away from what people think you are. And it is the closest to when you are you. Because I know this kind of weird, but when you were working as that manager and you were making two YouTube videos a day, were you being you?

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely, right? You were so close to yourself back then. And the crazy thing is like when your mom told you, like, pick one. The reason that that was so painful is because she was asking you, you were so close to who you were back then. you had figured out who you were and she was like, lop a piece off.

And you were like, no, that's not, I'm not a student. It's just not who I am. Yeah. And so I know it sounds kind of weird, but like there's a euness that transcends your physical body. There's a euness that even transcends your mind. Because there are fluctuations with the mind. One day you're sad.

One day you're angry. But you're still you. One day you're egotistical. One day you feel unworthy. Maybe you feel those things more constantly. But I guess that when you're taking a dump, you don't really feel unworthy. You're just like, you're just, exactly, exactly. Right?

And maybe if you're on your phone and you're checking Twitter, then you will feel unworthy. And so, you know, I mean, but like, like there's a Eunice, Ethan, and this is the thing is I would encourage you to walk that journey. And now it's going to be tricky because I don't know, you know, therapy is a good place to start. but I think it's a little bit more spiritual nature of really like go through this process of like when you close your eyes and you like sit down like I want you to go experience different things like go and like hike

and then like ask yourself like who's doing the hiking is this a YouTuber like where are they because I'm not gonna I don't think you're gonna find one I don't think you are a YouTuber. Yeah. I think a YouTuber is just a mantle that you put on. Mm-hmm.

Right? And I think that the closer that you get to that identity like the less that this vacuum of identity will be filled up by social media. And as you become solidified and grounded in yourself, and I know you've been this, you probably are to a certain degree. It's just social media is going to pull you away from that because in terms of identity, it's like, and you were taking a month off, right?

So like, I think you got closer to you. Yeah. And does that make sense? Yeah. No, and there were parts of that month where I did feel really close to myself. like, uh, there was just like a, there was just a night where I just, and it was very cathartic and very good, but I just like sat and cried for like, and it came out of nowhere, but I just sobbed on my kitchen floor, uh, for like 15 or 20 minutes out of nowhere. And like, it was really

good because I think that I don't allow, or like subconsciously, I don't allow myself to, feel my like deep emotions all that much. And I think that's a thing that a lot of YouTubers struggle with because we sort of like wear this mask of like, okay, I need to make a video now. I need to go on stream now. Time to be happy. Because we need to do an Alexa thymia workshop for you all. But okay. Yeah.

That's, uh, that's something that my therapist, uh, brought up like a month or two ago. She's like, I think that you have alexothymia and I was like, I don't know what that is and explained it. And I was like, oh, yeah. Because I can only, this is something that we've been working on, is that when she asked me how I'm doing or how something affects me, most of the time my go-to thing is weird or fine. And I have such a hard time explaining how something actually makes me feel. Can you explain to people what Alexa Thymie is? From my understanding of it, it's sort of the inability to, the inability. to

the inability to express or articulate your emotions, I guess? Well said. So I kind of think about it as someone who's colorblind to emotion. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Right? So it's like, it's like, and so we see this a lot actually in men especially because men are actually conditioned to suppress emotions and like not recognize them.

So men are allowed to feel basically one emotion. Any guess what it is? There's one emotion that's socially acceptable for us to express. Anger? Absolutely. Absolutely. Right? So, like, even when we get shamed and we get dumped, we feel pissed off.

Yeah. It's the only real thing that we understand. Like, it's like, you could tell anger. But everything else is weird. Yeah. And even positive emotions are like, oh, it's fine. You don't walk in and say, like, I feel like validated because people love me in the world and I feel like loved and appreciate like you just like we're just not taught how to even

recognize that like I feel good today why do you feel good I don't know I don't know it's fine I'm just I'm just viving I'm vibing today you know it's yeah yeah so so Alexa thymia is like not knowing what you feel and then the challenge is that like it's hard to you know process like what you don't which you can't feel or can't articulate and and you know, in medicine we have a saying that good diagnosis precedes good treatment. And I think the big problem with lexathymie is that like when we're, when we don't know what we feel, like we can't really fix it. Because are you feeling sad? Are you feeling ashamed? Are you feeling afraid? You know, are you feeling guilty? All these things are important. And even like solidifying

like the positive feelings is actually really important too. Yeah. But yeah, I'm going to have to think about that. But anyway, I'm sorry, you were saying something else. else I kind of jumped in with alex. I just made a side comment about. I don't remember. Okay. Yeah. And then I think the last thing that I just want to toss your way is like I think

Ethan for someone who is as contemplative as you are. So I'd tack one more thing. I think you're insightful, but I think you're also like a thinker. I get the sense that, you know, you may not really view yourself this way because of the ADHD. But like you think, I get the sense you think about stuff. And so one thing. that I would really encourage you to also kind of do going forward is like think about why you. So like, you know, I personally derive a lot of value from like thinking about karma.

And I don't know whether it's real or not real, but there's good scientific evidence that having an internally consistent way that you view the world is like a good way to find like peace and happiness and stability and builds resilience. It doesn't say that a particular way is superior to other ways. So it's not like the Christian model is like better or worse than the Hindu model. But that just or even like being like a secular humanist is totally fine too.

But there is good data that spending some time thinking about it and then coming to your own conclusions about like what is the way that I'm viewing my life in existence can be helpful. What do you think about exploring things like the theory of karma and stuff like that? Yeah. I mean, I'm always open to. like exploring and, uh, and just gaining knowledge about stuff because that's not something that I've even ever really dived into ever. Okay. I think it could help you answer these questions. Like,

why are you lucky? Like, why have you seen so much success over the last year when other people are struggling? And then I think there's another piece of that, which is that like, if you are lucky, like, what do you, what do you do with it? Yeah. You're saying, yeah, like, that, that sort of struck a chord. What do you, can you share a little bit? Yeah. I mean,

I feel like I struggle with that a lot where it's like, okay, like I am very lucky to be where I am. Like I have influence and, you know, I'm successful and blah, blah, blah, blah. But there's a lot of times where I'm like,

what fuck am I doing? Like, yeah, I don't know, where I feel sometimes that I'm, that I'm not using what I have in the in the correct way. Yep. Yeah.

Good. I'm very happy to hear that because I think that's what makes the world a better place. When people have resources and have talents and they think to themselves, am I using this the best way that I can? I think like that's where the light in the world comes from. It's like when people like you are like, hey, maybe I can do something. And you don't have to be big. you know, I think it's just everyone has resources at their disposal. But yeah, Ethan, I, can I pause for a second and maybe even start with a little bit of an apology?

Yeah, sure. So here's what I sort of got from our conversation today. And I just want to make sure that, you know, I feel bad if this wasn't really what you were looking for. It wasn't helpful. But when I talk to you and when I listen to you, like here's what I see. There's a psychological component. there's the somscar of feeling stupid and whatnot. And, you know, like, that was born in a particular place.

You carry it around with you. It activates when you see the toilet flush. That's when you think toilet. So when you're in a group of people, like, you're going to be transported. And maybe this is a better way to put it. I think you become eight-year-old Ethan in your mind. Right? And it's weird because that can coexist with successful Ethan.

Like here's one, Ethan who's like, oh, like, how do I use my resources to better? you like make the world a better place and like what do I do about like making oh I want to help the universe and then there's like oh my god stay quiet don't open your mouth because you're an idiot and you'll never you know yeah you can't this is weird right so the thing about a somscar is that the emotional energy retains the age at which it was formed so in psychology we call this regression but you get like your mind like boots up an old version of your OS yeah and so it's really weird And it can be really confusing. But the first thing to understand is that those can coexist, right?

I can, I forget what it, what's even called when you have like Linux installed on a Windows machine or, it's a cold. Yeah. And you've got like multiple OSs and you run one OS inside the other dual boot. Yeah, I don't remember. I used to know this kind of stuff. But anyway, so it's like you've got these multiple OS. So that's the psychological component. You know, if you have, I'm going to give you a chance.

ask practical questions. So that's where we kind of started with. Understanding the nature of mind, understanding what a somska is, how that emotional energy gets stored, gets called up. It doesn't mean you're stupid. It just means that there's an eight-year-old kid who feels stupid, who is then maximizing on your desktop and covering all of your conscious space. Yeah. Second thing is that, you know, some of those insecurities like unworthiness and stuff can get exacerbated by YouTube and social media. And that has to do with as long as you aren't grounded with who you are on the inside, all of that external stuff is going to determine who you are because the mind needs some kind of identity. And if it can't figure out who we are, if I ask you who you are and you can't

answer that question, your mind is going to fill it up with whatever you see on social media. That imposter syndrome is going to be an escalation of external value that is outer proportion with your internal value. And this once again gets to why it's important to figure out who you are because as you understand who you are, that's going to even things out. And then the imposter syndrome will melt away. Literally, I've seen it melt away with people once they understand who they are. Yeah. Then we didn't really quite get into why opening up is difficult. But I think, like, ultimately, you know, you should ask these questions. We kind of have this kind of spiritual component towards the end, which is like discovering who you are. Because you damn well know, you know, you just can't put words to it.

But you can say, like, I was close to myself then. I sat down. on the kitchen floor floor, I cried. And so for you to actually learn the systematic process of discovering who you are, reaccessing who you are on a daily basis. So you can kind of check in and be with yourself every single day. And that the more you move towards that person and the more that that person grows within you, there's a part of you like, I know, I mean, I don't know, but I'm going to predict, Ethan, that there are times where you have this idea. And then you're going to be like, I want to do this thing, like this thing that you were talking about of deleting all your videos. And there's probably another part of you that, like, thinks to himself, like,

what if everyone thinks it's stupid? And then you're like, you know what? I'm going to do it anyway because I think it's fun. And so there are times where you shine forward and overcome all of the other voices telling you like, oh, what if it doesn't work or what if it thinks it's stupid? But in that journey, ultimately, I don't think has to do with the psychology of imposter syndrome. I don't think has to do with, like, your somers. I think that journey is a spiritual one. And so what I want to apologize for is I feel like I've introduced a lot of different concepts and I've left you hanging on each one. No, I think that this was really good. Like, it just makes me think a lot more about, again, about like who I am as a person because that's not something

that I really ever think about. And it also, I don't know, makes me think about my past a lot and why I have certain feelings about things. And like, again, going back to being like, oh, man, I really had to like off a version of myself like that. And I think, again, like, that's something as a male that we have an issue with is like, I suppress a ton of stuff. And it's like, oh, did I ever really process that of like having to go through that? like, you know, going away from this other version of myself that was a giant part of my life for such a long time.

Like, I've never really processed that before. Or you've even really thought about it at all, if I'm being honest. Yeah. Okay. Is there anything that I can help you with or anything that you want more direction on? Yeah. I guess sort of like. out who

I am and that's obviously like a very broad thing but like I don't even know where to start of I don't even know where to start there and that that's something that I think coincides with like self-love too because I I think that I

have a really hard time with that and I think that I don't have a super great impression of myself and I don't even know where to begin with that like how do you even begin with like loving yourself and like because it's not like I hate myself but it's I don't know where to start you know what I mean yeah I know exactly what you mean um let me just let me just think for a second

I want to share with something with you but for some reason I feel like it's it feels a little bit promotional to me and I don't want to do that and I'm just trying can I just like think through why yeah okay I'm just going to steer clear of that um I made this guide to meditation and let me just think, okay, because I think it does illustrate the point well, but I don't want to, it feels to me like I'm going to advertise for something, but I just don't want to. But I think it's actually, this is why I made it. This is a common problem.

So people have been asking me, like, in our community for a long time, like, what is, like, how do I figure out, like, who I am? And so this is where I draw a little bit on Eastern spirituality, but, like, we've basically basically made this course on meditation. Hopefully it'll come out in a couple months. But a big part of this is something called the Atman Bhada. So Atman means soul or self and pada means path. And so there is some like stuff about figuring out like what is the nature of self.

I don't know if that makes sense or not. But like it's interesting because we don't really think about it. We don't like really get taught what it is. So my hope is that, you know, this will help people on their journey. And I would encourage you to check it out because I'm going to answer your question now, but like there's more detail about it that I like to share. So it's a whole set of things like practices and understanding. But let's start here. Okay.

Now, that feel like I just felt like it was inappropriate to try to. I mean, I'm trying to promote it. It's just, it felt. I mean, you have resources that you've made to help people with the exact questions that I have. But it just, it felt like disingenuous for some reason. No, it did not come. across that way at all. So here's what I would say. So the first thing is that like discovering who you are is absolutely a process. And there are a bunch of different steps. Okay. So there's an

experiential route, right, which we touched on today. And if you liked that kind of thing, then I can guide you more there. I'm going to give you like some kind of practice in the next five minutes. There's also like sort of a journaling or almost like intellectual or contemplative route, which is like using like logic philosophy thinking maybe taking a long walk it's not an experience so if I were to ask you to find masculinity within yourself if you identify as a man that's an experiential thing yeah so there's a little bit more of like a philosophical or intellectual or contemplative approach which is separate from the experiential approach and then the third thing that I'm going to offer you is um hold on let me think what was the third thing oh yeah the third thing

is something relating to dreams and nightmares because maybe we can hit two birds with one stone there. But there's particularly a practice, which I think will give you a clue as to who you truly are, that relates to dreams and nightmares. So which one do you want? Do you want the experiential one, the dreams and nightmares one,

or the contemplative philosophical? Let's do the experiential one. Okay. Do you meditate? I don't. And that's something that I've wanted to do and I've tried before. And I've had a really hard time doing it because I get too distracted and my mind just like goes everywhere.

And I, because that's something that I would really like to do and I think that I would benefit from it. But I don't really know how to do it with my brain. Beautiful. Okay. This is going to be easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, love and squeezy, okay? We're going to do two, we're going to do two or three. birds with one stone. So what we're going to do is use your ADHD to help you figure out who you are. So this is what we're going to do. I'm going to teach you a regular meditation practice,

which you're going to be terrible at. Great. And then what we're going to do is the real meditation practice behind that, which is going to trick you into discovering who you are. Great. Okay. So I'm going to give you a meditation practice and this is what's going to happen. Your mind is not going to want to do it. And then there is going to be a part of you that tries to force your mind into doing it. Does that make sense? And so then the question that I really want you to pay attention, you can fail catastrophically at the meditation practice, let your ADHD mind wander as much as you want to. I mean, don't let it go, but try to pull it back. And what I really want you to pay attention to is what is the part of you that is pulling your mind back? What is that?

Right? Because if we're saying that your mind is doing one thing, what is the part of you that is controlling your mind? Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? Yeah. So we're going to go like a two-layer deep meditation technique where if you succeed, great, then you learn how to meditate and your mind paid attention. No big deal. Wonderful. Okay, we've tricked you into meditating.

And even if you fail, I want you to just notice what is the part of you that is intending. and what is the part of you that is failing. Does that make sense? Yeah. And then try to figure out which one is the real you. Okay. So next question I'll give you. So now we have to come up with a generic meditation technique.

I really like to start with something for some people who have ADHD. I do something called alternate nostril breathing. Have you ever heard of that or tried that? I've not. Okay. So I like this practice because it isn't easy to do. So if you think about the mind with ADHD, if I told you to close your eyes and observe your breath, what would your mind do?

I'd start manually breathing. Okay, good. And then what would your mind do? Probably trail off. Good. Yeah. So with the mind with ADHD, we need to give you something harder to do. And the more difficult it is to do, like, the more balls your mind has to juggle, the more likely you are to successfully meditate.

Okay. Okay. So I'm going to teach you a weird pattern of breathing that you kind of like is hard to do. Cool. And that's going to hopefully help us. Okay. So it's going to be failures upon failures upon failures. So first of all, take your right hand.

Okay. Can you fold? Can I see it? Can you move it in front of the camera? Yeah. And can you fold these two fingers down? Yep. Good.

Okay. So now what we're going to do is I'm going to take my right thumb and block my right nostril. Very good. And I'm going to breathe in through my left. Now I'm going to block the left nostril. Yep. Pinky.

Yep, pinky, good. Exhale. Breathe in through the same nostril. Switch. Breathe out. Exhale. In? Switch.

Out. In? Switch. We're going to pause for a second. You got the hang of it? Yeah. So it's confusing because you're going to breathe in, switch, and breathe in. out and then you breathe in again. So you always switch on a full breath. Okay. What some people want to do is

they want to go in, out, switch. In correct. Yeah. It's in and then what? And then switch. And then what? And then out. And then what? And then switch and then out. Beautiful. Okay, so we're going to do this for to like, how long you want to do it? However long it takes. Okay, we're going to do like one to three minutes. Cool. So I want you to do that. And if your mind wanders, we're going to stack stuff up.

So we're going to go straight to hard mode. Okay? So we're not, if you just get, if this is enough to occupy your mind and it's all you can handle, that's great. Then we've tricked you into meditating. Here's a question. What should I be thinking about? Focus on maintaining the,

the rhythm. Okay. Okay. If your mind starts to wander, just try to make sure you're doing the practice properly, or what you can do is focus on the sensation of the breath entering and leaving. Okay. Cool.

I know it sounds weird what you should be there. And then remember, if your mind starts to wander, let it come back to the breath. And then pay attention to who's bringing the mind back. Okay. Okay. So we're going to do this for like three minutes. So close your eyes, sit up straight, and fail. Go. Okay, go ahead and finish the round that you're on.

Let your eyes stay closed for a second. So I'm going to ask, what is your mind doing now? What was your mind doing during the practice? It feels a little lighter now, I guess is how I would describe it. of it? Uh-huh. During it, I was going back and forth between focusing on breathing and noticing how congested I am. Okay.

And then also thinking about what Twitch chat was saying while I was doing that. Okay. So what, so I want you to, so thinking was your mind. Mm-hmm. What was the focusing on your breathing? Is that mind? I would assume it's also mine just a different part of mind. Okay.

More like focused like I want to do the thing. Okay. And what, so when you started thinking about what Twitch Hat was thinking about. Yeah. And you returned to focusing on the breath or once Twitch Hat entered the picture, it's hard to get them out? It was very ping pongy. So it was like a thought would enter about chat.

And then I'd be like, no, focus on the breathing. And then I'd go back to focusing on the breathing. And then I'd switch to this nostril. And I'd be like, wow, it's really hard to breathe out of that. Okay. And I'd be like, no, back to breathing. Okay. So now open your eyes.

So there's a lot going on there. First of all, I think you did a fantastic job. Cool. Okay. So here's why. Even though you were thinking about a lot of stuff, so many important things that are so subtle. So the first is that I want you to notice the interaction between noticing and thought. So before you think about how congested you are, what has to happen first? Like the spark of the idea in the back of my mind? So the noticing happens first. And you say spark of idea in the back of your mind, it's not in your mind. It's actually outside. side of your mind. Yeah.

So this is where the mind is a thinking machine. It's where we experience thoughts in emotions and have identities about ourselves. Our ego, our emotions, and our intellect all exist within our mind. When you watch a sunset and it's beautiful and you're just like vibing, that's not really thinking. It's not really emotion. It's not joy or sadness. There's not really ego.

you're not like, oh, like if you take a picture, like if you take a selfie of yourself, then that becomes ego. But if you're just enjoying the experience, that's not actually inside mind. It's actually outside of mind. Does that make sense? Yeah. So the yogis hypothesized that the noticing capacity actually exists outside of mind. And what happens is you notice something like my nostril is congested. And then your mind starts to make judgments about it. Does that make sense?

It starts thinking, hypothesizing, oh man, this is crazy. What are they going to think? Can they hear it? There goes the mind. Yeah. Right? Do they think that I'm super congested? Can they tell?

There's the ego. Right? And then what did you do? Did you let go those thoughts and come back to the breath? Yeah. How? No. By, I guess.

by me noticing that I wasn't on the breathing, that I wasn't focusing on the breathing. And then so I almost like got distracted by going back to the breathing. Yep. Yeah. Very good. So noticing. You're like, oh, my mind has run over there now.

So now the question, I know it was your first time, but I'm going to ask you, what the hell is it that does the noticing? Because if your mind is distracted, how are you able to? to, like, what is it that's pulling the mind? Because we've concluded that the mind is running out of, like, and Ryan is like, oh, my God, what does switch I think about the sound of my congested-ass nostril? That's what your mind is doing. Yeah.

So what is that, how are you, if your mind is by definition distracted, how can you undistract, it doesn't make sense. You can't undistract yourself, right? There's the second faculty in like, does that sort of make sense? Yeah. Something is outside of the mind and like tugging on it. You're like, get the fuck back. Yeah.

And then the mind, then you focus on the breathing, and then what happens in your mind. And then I noticed something again of, like mostly my nostril because I can feel it. Yep. So then you notice and then the mind starts again. Because boy, does the mind love to like,

you know, think like, oh, like if we think about social anxiety, like, oh, that person is looking at me. He must think I'm stupid. There's just a noticing, there is an observation that our mind attaches all this crap to it. And then it goes off to the races. You can yawn or sneeze, whichever you need to do, bro. I'm not sure which one it was going to be. I was just like my face made a face. All right. So maybe that's your body or brain's way of signaling. Maybe this is a good place to stop. I think it is a good place to stop. But I want you to just appreciate that there is some capacity outside of your mind that can restrain your mind. And that's what I'm going to hypothesize to you is actually closest to the

real you. Because I'd say that all of your best inspiration doesn't come from the mind. It comes from that thing. And then your mind starts to shape it, think about how to execute it and all that kind of stuff. But that the inspiration actually comes from outside of mind. What do you think about that? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. Because there's a, I don't know, a lot of times where I just have like a random idea that comes kind of out of nowhere. And then I start thinking about it. Exactly.

So the thinking is separate from the birth of the random idea. So spend time in that space. And now I'm going to ask you that noticing capacity, if that's outside of the mind, what is it or what are the qualities of it? that is correct that is correct that is exactly correct so ultimately what the yogis concluded is that it doesn't have qualities yeah because like even when you're like I don't know how to describe it that is correct it cannot be described it is formless and this so this is the thing and now we're going to kind of get to the punchline right so like this something normally that I don't you know teach people over the course of weeks. But now I'm going to give you a hypothesis for you to test and tear apart.

Is that that observing capacity is what they call divine. It is actually formless and like it doesn't have qualities. It is neither good nor bad. It is just it is what is. It is that which notices everything else. It's kind of like, you know, there's, if I watch TV, like there's water on the screen, but is the water on the screen wet? So if I'm sitting in the theater, everything that happens in the screen of the mind can happen on the screen of the mind.

But sitting in the theater, I can never get wet no matter how hard of a storm there is on the TV screen. Yeah. And so all of the qualities that we think of in life happen inside our mind. Oh, I'm better than this person. I'm worse than this person. I'm successful. All that shit's in the mind. It's not really who you are.

And as we tunnel down and like adult, child, whatever. Like, it's not who you are. What you are is that thing. And the closer you get to that thing, the better you'll feel. And when you're constantly grounded in that thing, you will have attained enlightenment, which is what would they talk about. Oh. This was really, really great, by the way.

Okay, good. It really got me thinking a lot. And also thinking about how to not think. There we go. Well, does. Done. Yeah. Good job, Ethan. So listen, yeah, I'm really happy to hear that. So, you know, I yeah, spend more time in that space. And even if your mind wanders, if your mind feels congested, that's totally fine. Because the other thing that you're doing, I know this sounds weird,

but every time your mind wanders and you bring it back what you're actually doing, that's actually a mental push-up. So if you think about ADHD, ADHD is your mind wandering around without any kind of direction. Because when you were eight years old, what did you want your mind to do? I wanted to focus. Absolutely. Could not. So when you meditate and you start thinking about congestion and you bring the mind back, what are you training your mind to do?

To come back. Yep. And so the worse you are at meditating, what does that mean about the number of push-ups that you're doing when you meditate? I'm doing more push-ups. And what does that mean for your swallness? I'm getting stronger. Absolutely. So the more your mind wanders, literally you are strengthening a capacity in your brain

called frontal lobe inhibition of other things. Every time your mind wanders, every time you bring it back, you are actually becoming more buff mentally. You are training your attention. It's like a dog that runs over there and you're like, heal boy. And then the more you train it, the more it's going to start to listen. Yeah. My mind is going to be so huge.

It's not your mind that's going to be huge. It's you that's going to be huge. I'm going to be huge. You're going to be so swall, dude. I don't know if you're in a relationship or what your sexual preferences, but I'm just going to assume a cisgendered male who's heterosexual and the ladies are going to love it. I can't wait Well, thank you so much

This was amazing Thank you so much for having me on Yeah, man It was great having you and I Really fantastic I'm really rooting for you Ethan And I think like keep walking the journey that you're walking Because I think it's going to be great

Yeah I'm excited to To hopefully dive more into meditation And figure that out and figure out How to do more mind pushups It's not mind pushups. The other. Yes.

Yes. Yes. So it's interesting because in Sanskrit they call it the other. That's like what they, because it doesn't have. Anyway. Yeah. But good luck to you, man. Thank you very much for coming on and, you know, best wishes.

Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Twitch chat for hearing my congested nostrils. Ah, see, there's the insecurity. There it is. Finds anyway. To peak its head.

It does. It does. So take care of, man. Bye. All right. Have a good one.