HealthyGamerGG - Helping Viewers with Porn Addiction

Episode Date: February 16, 2020

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I know what abnormal looks like. I'm an expert at the abnormal, and y'all are fucking normal. You guys are just normal people that had something fucking bad happened to you. And then your brain is wired a certain way, and then you use these, you build up these walls around all of these negative feelings. And so now you guys need immense courage, because taking those walls down is fucking, it's hard. Okay. So, um, let's start with.

introductions. And so if you guys just want to tell me how I should refer to you. And once again, guys, huge, huge props to actually, you know, coming on today and talking about this, it's a really sensitive topic. It affects a lot of people. And I really think that you guys are just doing an awesome job at, you know, being so vocal about things that you struggle with because a lot of people struggle with this. And to be able to put your face out there and put your name out there and live on the internet is really like you're just, your balls are gigantic. So let's start with,

so let's just start a little bit with like brief introductions. So maybe just tell me how you want the rest of the group to refer to you. And then tell me a little bit about why you're joining the group today or how we can help you out. And let's kind of start in the top left with the dude in the blue sweatshirt. Hi. I guess you can call me Ghost for the duration of the stream. Awesome, Ghost. Welcome in. Hi. This is kind of surreal. Yeah. Tell me about it. What do you mean by surreal?

I don't know. It's kind of... I've watched you as this sort of abstract person where it's a one-way thing that I'm watching you. And now you're here interacting with us. it's just, it feels a little bit. Oh, that's what surreal? Well, that you're interacting with. There's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of like surreal things here, but okay. And is there something in particular that you were hoping, um, to kind of better understand today or something that we can help you with?

Um, I just sort of felt like it would be a good idea. I tried not to think it. Sure. I thought something good would come. Okay. Great. Well, welcome ghost. And, and next let's go to, um, yeah, I guess you guys don't see. exactly yeah awesome so my name is richard um i live in california and uh first of all i just like to acknowledge dr k for letting all the viewers on so i'm really really excited for this um my big thing with uh porn addiction is that there's like i i try so throughout my experience i've always placed the value judgment when i when i first got into the act i was king of the animal kingdom

And then two weeks went on. And then I started to see it as like a shameful act. And then more time went on. I don't know. I've like, I've tried a lot of different value propositions of like what it is. Okay. Like I see like right now I'm in a state of where I see it as, you know, I see like a little bit of

beauty to it. Like even though it's artificial, I still think there, there is room for it in the world. But the one thing that I'm struggling with. is like the dopamine and like the relationship with the frontal lobe. That's a big thing on why that's something that I kind of want to, moving forward, I kind of want to discuss the topic of like, like no fap and like just ways that like not using porn as a form of an escapeism, use it more as like a way to like create things in your reality.

I don't know. Maybe I'm kind of rambling now. But yeah, I'm really excited to be on. Listen, Richard, let me hear. Let me tell you what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that you've thought about this a lot. And also you've tried a lot of different things. And you're curious about how different ways to look at this.

You're curious. You have like some thoughts about nofap. You have some thoughts about, you know, how you apply values to it. And so you're really here to just learn and kind of like like, like sort of sort some of this stuff out. And maybe some of the other folks here, myself included, can like help you sort that out. Maybe we can try to understand this a little bit better come to some answers together. Is that fair?

Absolutely. Perfect. Perfect. Right on the money. Beautiful, man. And next, we have the dude. Yes. Hey, so you can call me Harold.

Okay. And I guess the one thing. The one thing. Thanks. It's weird talking to you. As Ghost said, because I just only watched your stuff, and now I'm actually talking to you. Welcome, man.

Thanks. I guess the only thing I've been really thinking about is, I mean, I've been trying to quit this for four years. So I guess I want to explore reasons why it's been so hard to kick it. Because, I mean, for four years I've been trying to quit it. I've gone lengths of time without it, but then I just always come back, and it just seems like super hard to kick for some reason. I've tried lots of different stuff, and can't really.

finds the right way to get rid of it. Okay, sure. So maybe what we can do is try to like compare and contrast a little bit, see what people have tried, what seems to have worked what hasn't. Yeah. And then maybe come to some kind of consensus about how to help you guys overcome a porn addiction. And so I think the next icon I'm seeing is myself, right? This the, yeah. And then down in the bottom left. Yeah. Welcome, dude. Yeah. Hello, my name is Aaron.

I guess my porn addiction has lasted eight years now. Yeah. Okay. I guess the one thing that I really wanted to address is that the first couple times that I, like, well, I address the issue pretty early on to myself, but when I was trying to find support in others. there was this sort of stigma, I guess, that porn isn't an addiction. That was something that just like hit me pretty hard. And I guess that's one big thing that I wanted to bring up during this stream is that like pornography can be a severe addiction just like others, but in different ways, of course.

Okay. Yeah, that was one of the main things that I wanted to address. So, Aaron, it sounds like... you really looked for help and support and you were really sort of judged for it and kind of you weren't really met with a whole lot of support or understanding or or and that was that is a big problem absolutely so thank you for bringing that up and then next I see like an anime portrait with blue eyes yes hello hey man welcome I am virtual on the discord okay and Welcome, Virgil.

Thank you. Appreciate you having this year. I've been struggling with this issue, the issue of porn addiction, since I was 14. Okay. And ballpark for us, how long ago that was? About 10 years. Okay. Probably 11, actually.

Okay. So it sounds like you've been struggling with this for a long time. Yeah. And knowing what I know now about how porn affects your brain, your connections and everything, it's been really tough to quit it because it was introduced to me by my, by my own, sorry. That's okay, man, take your time. It's, it's kind of difficult to talk about. Absolutely.

I came across it in my form of years, and I think that's, that it's damaged me in a way that's very hard to sort of recognize and deal with. And it's just something in general that I just want to be able to quit it, because it's just, it's something that's something that's more difficult to quit than maybe people might think. Absolutely. People definitely downplay the issue more than they should. I don't think that they take it seriously. Absolutely, guys. Absolutely. So I'm going to just jump out with something.

How many of y'all feel damaged? I do. I do. Sorry, I just need a button. It came a little quick. What do you mean by damage? Could you kind of... I'm just curious if that word sort of resonates.

Like Virgil used the word he felt like, you know, being exposed to such an early age. Completely. Yeah. And he used literally the word damaged. And I was just thinking about how powerful that word is. And I was just curious how much what he experienced kind of resonates with the rest of y'all. And just do you. A thousand percent.

Yeah. And can you, can you share a little bit more by what you mean by that? Whoever said a thousand percent? Oh, okay. I came across it when I was 11, and I had a friend at the time, and he talked about how amazing it was. I thought about looking at it before,

and it sort of spurred me to look at it, and it was like tasting sugar for the first time. Sure. And because it's such a sort of new phenomenon in the high-speed internet form that we have it, people don't really understand the risks and it's not really explained to you. You know, you're taught not to overeat sugar, but you're not taught to over-consume this. And it's sort of from the moment I was exposed to it, it was like every day, two to three times a day at least, just from then on, for about,

the first two years before I realized there were any negative effects. And you sort of realize it as you start to grow more desensitized to regular stuff, and you realize it doesn't affect you like it used to and you get exhausted with it. So it's kind of like moving to, not to be like hyperbolic, but like moving to harder drugs. You could sort of keep searching for that high. Yep. So it sounds like you have to go to more kind of more extreme pornography to get the kind of dopamine response. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that, ghost. So I'm hearing from a lot of

you guys that y'all feel, y'all feel damaged in some way. Yes. All right, so let's just put a pin in that idea for just a second. Let's finish doing introductions. And then, you know, my hope is that if nothing else, I don't know what we're going to uncover about dopamine or neurodevelopment or any of that stuff. But if nothing else, I would love it if we could, you know, start you guys on the path of, I don't know what we're going to do about porn, but if we can start to help you feel less damaged and more whole, that's kind of at the top of my list for like, like, just first steps that, I don't know if we can solve the rest of it. But if we can even do something about that, that's just, that feels really important to me. Can we continue with introductions?

So down in the middle right? Oh, you're muted, buddy. Can you guys hear him? No, no. No, no. Yeah, we can't hear him. We had a small problem about this earlier, so I don't know if we want to move the discussion, just right over to the right, and we'll circle right back to it.

We'll circle back to you, buddy. So then the other anime portrait. Yeah, me. Yeah. So you can, my name is George. You can call me George, if he's this here. to pronounce. Okay. I've been struggling with his addiction for like six years. Okay. I discovered in a really early age, like 11 or 10 years old. I don't really remember.

Actually, no, it was like 12 or 13 years old. And pretty much I, in the first years, I didn't really do it too much. But then when my life started, it became more difficult and I become more depressed and stuff, I sort of used it as an escape tool. And then it just brought a lot of control. I grew more desensitides to stuff, and I started over-sexualizing people. That's one way I feel damaged. I started over-sexualizing stuff. Okay.

And- Can you help me understand what you mean by that? Like, for example, I was in school and I was in class. and I looked at a girl that I was at a crush on and then I will start thinking about things I would do with her. Like stuff like that. Even in the street when I looked at a woman. Okay. So we like I started over-sexualizing stuff.

And he grew to a point where I was feeling disgusted with myself, which didn't help because then it made me feel more depressed. and made me want to jerk off even more. Sure. So, yeah, that's something that I've been trying to, that I've been struggling with. I tried doing NOFAP. I actually did like a month. But then I just went back into it

because I was struggling with school and other stuff. And yeah. Okay. And do you want to try, so thank you very much. You said it's George. Yeah. Okay. And do you want to try the one person that we had to skip?

Are we good? You want to try introducing yourself or you think it's... Oh, still not getting audio. Okay. No audio yet. Okay. Do you want to try rejoining the call or... Yeah.

Why don't you try rejoining? And if not, then, you know, we'll have you for thumbs up and thumbs downs. you're going to be our virtual upvote, downvote machine, depending on what other people are saying, okay? So, okay, so let me just think for a second. Okay, so I'm going to just toss out a series of just thoughts, okay, topics. And then you guys let me know which direction you want to go. So the first is the sense of being damaged, I think we should really explore.

Because like George was saying, there's something of like a cycle, right? So we can also talk about this. About the effect, when you masturbate, it serves as like a dopamine release and helps us feel good. So we release endorphins and other kinds of like endogenous chemicals that make us feel good. And so there's any time you have an addictive behavior, there's like the addiction in and of itself. and then there's using the addiction as a coping mechanism for other things. Because basically, like, our brain learns a surefire way to release certain neurochemicals that we're going to make us feel a particular way. So if we're feeling bad about ourselves and we've kind of got like this, like, guaranteed

way to feel better, oftentimes we'll turn to that addictive behavior. And so there's something of a cycle of addictive behavior and feeling bad and then using it to make ourselves feel better. So we can talk about the sort of cycle of addiction in terms of feeling bad and then making ourselves feel better. We can talk about being damaged. We should definitely talk about what other people understand or don't understand and how it sounds like the other thing that you guys feel is isolated. Right? So we can kind of talk about isolation and stigma.

and then we should probably talk about no fap and just what you guys think about that. And then the last thing that I'm going to just put on the table is control of the mind. So what I would like to do, and maybe this is where I can actually help, is that our mind functions in a particular way. Like we have certain impulses and then we have certain feelings. and then those impulses and feelings kind of do some sort of, you know, inner calculation and then result in us engaging in a particular behavior. And so how can we understand, like, what is going on in your mind to actually control it

in a way that you want to, to achieve what you want? So that's going to be, like, almost like a very engineering standpoint. And I'm going to ask you guys a lot about, like, the sequence of events over, like, the span of five minutes of like what you experience, what happens in your head, you know, how do you struggle internally, what ends up happening? And so that's something that I think we, you know, hopefully I'll be able to help in that way because that tends to apply to all addictions. So what do you guys think? So cycle, being damaged, being isolated, stigma, no fap, or controlling the mind? What do you all want to talk about? Do you guys want to go down the line, just like we did

for introductions? Yeah, we could do that. The part is the most poignant so far. Which one's the most poignant? The damaged part of it. So actually, let's just take a step back. So how would you guys,

so let's say someone, you say that you tell someone that you're addicted to pornography and they say, oh man, that's completely normal. Like there's nothing like special or wrong or different about that. Can we actually just

start by sort of defining when you guys say that you're addicted um help us understand or yourselves understand like where do you draw the line like why do you think that you have a problem and like what do you think is normal let's just start by defining what we're talking about are we uh going in an order or no just anyone just you know just jump in okay for me When I had the realization, it was when it was like four in the morning and I'm watching for like a few hours. And then like the next day I wanted to watch more. It was just like the ever needing like urge for that consumption. Okay.

And it just never went away. It was always there. Always. It sounds like a hunger that cannot be satisfied. Absolutely. Yep. I agree. So that sounds like that's a pretty universal experience?

Yes, definitely. Yeah. Can you share a... It seems like... Go for it. Sorry. Ghost? Oh, yeah, it seems like it's sort of this thing that overpowers, all other things. I first sort of realized it was a problem at around 13.

And I did no fact for three months. because I was starting to learn about how it worked and I felt great and some of the bad things that I had noticed when I was a child I was able to remember anything that I wanted to so if I watched a documentary and you asked me about any part of it

I'd be able to tell you exactly what was said but then once I started watching porn I noticed over a really sort of long period of time my cognitive abilities was sort of tapering off, even though I was meant to be growing. And then I realized when I did NOFAP again, they started to come back and I was able to remember things again. Fascinating.

Yeah. And I realized they got really bad when I was 16. And in England we have these things called GCSEs. I assume like finals are the sort of similar thing. So before these big tests, I was meant to be revising and getting eight hours of sleep. And I was watching porn to the point where there were three days in a row where collectively in these three days I got two hours of sleep. And I was sleeping for around 40 minutes because I guess I was using it as like an anxiolytic. Because I was so, I felt so pressured by these tests that I was just constantly consuming.

Okay. And that's when I sort of realized it was a really, like it was devouring my life. Wow. Yeah. So I think it was, Aaron, I saw you nodding like a madman when Ghost was talking. So does that, does that mirror your own? Is it okay if I, if I just call attention to things that I notice for you guys? Absolutely. I'm good with that. Okay. It's perfect of fun. Dr. Kay, just want to let you know. I don't have my voice, but I'm... Okay, I'm not voice. I meant video. I'm sorry, I did. I mean to say voice.

I meant video. And who am I talking to? You can call me Squatch. 24. I'm from South Florida. And I had a significant traumatic experience that happened in my life when I was a kid at 11 years old. that ever since then caused me to have a real severe addiction to pornography. And I've been struggling with it to this day.

So it's a battle that honestly I fight every single day and it's really, really rough. And even though I don't have my video, you guys saw my face. I'm very, very happy to be here. And I'm looking forward to having this discussion with you guys. Awesome, man. Welcome, Squash. And I'm sorry to hear that something bad happened to you in your teen years. I'm also noticing a trend that it sounds like for a lot of you guys, like stuff started very, very early. Yeah, so we should probably just, I just got to think about that in terms of the developing brain.

But Aaron, you were, you were nodding along as Ghost was talking. Yeah, I also experienced a pretty much the same exact thing. I actually managed to break the addiction for two years. and during that time, I was like at my peak academically and mentally, and my happiness was like through the roof. But then some things happen, life happens, and I relapsed, I guess I'll call it that. And it's been just repeating that cycle, like you said, over and over again. And if you, I mean, anybody else curious about,

how Aaron broke the addiction for two years? I'm incredibly curious about that. So my thing is that, I think you said step four, there's something, there's a conversation that happens in your mind, maybe left and right. There's a point where when you're induced in this like coma of this sex drive, it's influencing your whole mind and body. And once you start bringing up like a conversation between like yes and no between the act of doing it or not, it just seems that like the whole like the feeling, the whole feeling inside your body is influencing your mind and what it's thinking. And then you start making negative rationalizations about it.

So and that's what gets to me most of the time. It comes down to a point where I start arguing with it like this side. in my brain for, you know, maybe five or so minutes and then it gets to a breaking point where like I just, my rationalizations just make sense at that point and then the act ensues. So, I mean, I'm hearing something that sounds like almost like a very, very physical craving. Yeah, absolutely. That's what it sounds to me like. I mean, it, you know, it sounds like it's not actually like your mind, it's your body.

Yeah, the craving is, uh, Huge. Yeah. What does the craving feel like in your body? Well, initially, so first of all, it gets triggered. So once it, if I see some type of suggestive image, you know, like a spark happens. And then like my whole body kind of tenses up. And then I feel like deep inside my spine almost, my lower spine. I feel like almost around my stomach and it feels like this um what's the word you used it was a a ball of um undigested feelings what's the word for that some scar some some scar yes it feels like it's just yeah absolutely yeah so someone's paying attention good well it just feel i don't know it just like it kind of just starts

enveloping and it just like it's it has an influence over my whole body and it's just like it's it's something i don't like because i really want to, you know, quit this addiction. And I don't like, you know, surging up this massive energy just to, you know, blow it out 40 minutes later and then have no motivation or more importantly, energy to do anything for the rest of the day. So, so I'm hearing like a buildup of, of energy or sensation. Is that and then, and then you feel spent afterward? Yeah. Absolutely. I've, um, it's yeah I feel like I just once it's done I feel like I've given it everything and then I you know blow off the rest of the day so I can't like my biggest concern is when I do it early in the morning and like at the end of the day I don't really see much of a problem but I still see a problem with the porn addiction as a whole just the value judgment of like how early in the day I do it okay so um

Richard, when you were, and sorry if I'm bouncing around a little bit, you guys are welcome to sort of, if you feel like we're moving too fast, you all are welcome to, you know, invite us to kind of stay with a particular topic. I'm just going to kind of run with what I'm hearing. And, and so, can I just think for a second? Absolutely sure. Yeah. So I'm just, I'm struck by how not mentalness is. like I'm struck by like the words that you guys use do not are not words of the mind like you guys use words like damaged or hungry or even someone said coma I think did someone use the word coma yeah yeah and so these are these are incredibly physical physical words and and what I'm hearing is that that actually your mind sort of tries to fight against this almost like tidal wave of like hunger or demand and you can sort of like fight

that battle but it's kind of like trying to keep the waves from washing on shore like you're like you're like you're like pushing you're pushing the water back like with your hands and like you're pushing and you're like no water like don't come on to shore don't come on to shore but there's only like so long you can do that before like you know that wave is just it's it there's a certain There's a certain like finality or futility or inevitability to like what I'm hearing you guys describe. Is that? Can I jump in and ask a question? Yeah, absolutely.

Just to everyone else here. Do you guys feel like your cravings are more, or less, sorry, a less frequent when you're out in public or when you're actively engaged in something or interacting with people? Yeah. For me, it's like a more passive thing. Like it's still there. It's like being hungry. almost well yeah it feels almost exactly like being hungry for food like it'll be there but when you're focused on something that requires your attention that is a necessity it uh sort of forces it back with

sort of like an equivalent force it's like two tidal waves crashing against each other in that sort of analogy yeah um yeah go ahead sorry i feel like when the that emotion is the strongest is like when I'm really not doing anything. Like when I'm not being productive with anything, I'm just like sitting there. And then it comes to my mind and I start thinking about it and then I end up doing it. Especially right before bed too. When you're lying down in bed and you're not doing anything, if you turn to the left and you turn to the right and you look at your phone,

you're just like, oh, I got some time. It's all good. And you don't even think about it and it just becomes natural after a lot. So, Harold, I thought I saw you or heard you say something like when you are in public, it is easier to deal with? Yeah, well, actually, for me, when I'm in public, I probably most of the time I don't have any urges at all. Especially like in open spaces like when I'm out for a walk or something or on campus or something. I just don't get actually almost any urges at all. it's mostly just when I'm like working at home alone or something or with a few people or something like that. But in public, I just don't get them at all.

Okay. So so so so for some people it sounds like it's kind of in the back of your mind in public. For other people it seems like being in public or being some otherwise engaged is it really does help. And and I'm hearing that idleness of the mind really is is like let some of those thoughts and feel. kind of come out. It just opens the gate. Definitely. Okay.

What do you all think about that? I see two sides to the coin. I don't know what it is, but I see, I don't know, maybe there's a root cause to our different problems between us. Okay. What do you think that root causes? Let's hear it, Aaron. Well, I've been able to, because I've been to a bit of therapy and stuff. Good for you, man.

So I've been able to, yeah, thank you. I've been able to, like, sort of trace back to where it came from. I went through a similar event when I was seven years old. It was sort of forcibly sexually awakened and caused, like, a sort of innocent character. curiosity to sort of process what actually happened to me. And once I exposed myself to the world of porn, I was way too young to really sort of properly handle it and process it healthily. And so it became like an obsession.

Like when I first started out, I didn't even masturbate. I didn't really have those urges at that age. But once it, um, continue tonight do you remember what the draw was before you started masturbating it was like I said almost like a curiosity

and then it was still like a a slight like dopamine kick and I guess it also helped ease some sort of like social anxieties that I may have had at that age

hmm and ghost I saw you nodding along Yeah, a lot of it resonated. What resonated with you? What he said about the sort of curiosity and need to understand. And I feel like I also had a preemptive sexual awakening when I was a child, but a lot of the memories are sort of blacked out, and I've come to a lot of realizations about what that means.

But I remember making sexually inappropriate jokes, but at a very young age before most people knew anything about it. And I didn't really know where that came from. And it feels like my mind is constantly blocking out the source. And porn is somehow my mind's way of trying to go back and explore something, some sort of trauma that hasn't been resolved. And it feels like when, like it's filling a void. And at times in my life where I felt wholesome or appropriate,

appreciated, my urges have completely disappeared. Like when I had a girlfriend, I didn't have any urges at all. Who resonates with ghosts like depiction of, like, is that what's happening to you guys? I don't actually resonate with that. I'm actually the complete opposite. And by the way, before I keep talking, is my mic okay? Are we good? Yeah.

We're good, man. We're good squash. Sounds a lot better. Sounds a lot better. Good, good. All right. I actually was the complete opposite because when I actually had a girlfriend around, I found myself when she wouldn't give me what I want, I would turn to porn more.

And I would actually start to use it as a kind of scapegoat to get away from certain things when she was annoying me or when she was upsetting me. And I wanted to get away from her and just worry about myself and give into my own selfish desires, I would turn to porn. And porn was really a safe spot for me in that regard. But, you know, the relationship ended bad. And ever since then, it's like it got ramped up 12fold. So, you know, now I'm at a place in my life at 24 where it's like I want to reach out.

I want to have more relationships. And the relationship I've had with porn when it came to having a girlfriend, it's like it didn't matter. Like I still watched it and I still went to it. You sound like you judge yourself a lot for that squaw. Dr. Kay, I think way too much, my friend. I think way too much. What do you think about yourself for, for, what's that judgment? I hear almost self-hatred. Yes, it, um, it does stem a lot from the incident I had as a kid because I never wanted, um, anything to deal with it.

And it never was something that I wanted. And it kind of happened. And there's no turning back. You know, there's no change in the past. There's no fixing anything or changing anything. But honestly, I never wanted this. You know, when I think about the journey that I've been on so far, I've, I'm 24 years old, man. And I've been dealing with this since I was 11 years old.

It's just, it's hard. It's really, really hard. I resonate that a lot. I thought it was very powerful. What was powerful, Richard? I completely agree. I saw, let me think.

There's a lot of power and being vulnerable to what life throws at you. And I just saw, like, the way that you're dealing with it, I see, sorry, can you guys hear my dog? Yeah, a little bit. Let me take care of that really quick, right after this.

I just saw a lot of power in being able to, you know, I don't know. I'm lost on this. Dr. Kay, I'm going to need to help. That's okay, Richard. So I think what I'm hearing Squash, so I thought that was it. So what I'm hearing is that like people are affected by what you had to say. Something about Squash just speaking your truth, which by the way, I mean, you say you've been dealing with this for 13 years and it's hard.

Dude, it sounds fucking impossible. Like, hard is the understatement of the year, man. Yeah. It's one of those things where I tell myself every single day that it's something I can beat. And honestly, just so the stream knows last night was, I want to say the first night in a long time that I had enough motivation that it just never even crossed my mind. And it's been the same routine.

man for the past so long. But last night, it was one of the first nights where I said, you know what, I'm putting myself first. I'm going to put the stream first tomorrow. I'm going to not do it. And I didn't. And it felt great. But, you know, I think what was powerful about what I said, Dr. K, is that, you know,

everyone always has different experiences and everyone's always going to experience things differently. But the thing when it comes to porn addiction for me, that I, want to tell the world if I could. It's just that like it's really not worth it. In the end, it's really not because it changes your relationships. It changes the way you see people. But I know that we'll maybe get down to it further down the line. But you know, yeah, that's how I feel.

And it sounded like Virgil, did I hear you say something kind of aligned with what Squash was saying? I thought I heard you comment. Yes, sir. The thing that really resonated, with me with what Squash said was that, you know, I didn't, I didn't want this for myself. I don't think any of us here want this for ourselves. We don't want to view the world through this, this destructive and damaging lens that just seems to never go away. It just, it hangs over

your head like a cloud constantly. And it's something that I wish I could, I wish I could, um, fix. It feels unfixable for me. Yeah, so, so this is going to sound kind of bizarre. I think you guys can get better, but I don't think that this is something that you can fix. Like, like fixing implies that there's something that I don't know how else to put this, but I mean, I think what you need to be is, is healed, not fixed, like you're not broken. Like, the, so, so the, so the, so the, so the, so the, so the, so the, I'm reeling, to be completely honest, guys, because I have never, I've worked with people who have had sexual addictions before. I've worked with people who have had porn addictions before, but I don't know if they were just, you know, because it's different because you're sitting in an office and you're talking to another person or there's some degree of shame or what, but you guys have really just opened my eyes to, first of all, I've never thought of porn addiction is something that afflicts you. Like, we think about, like, diseases is things that happen to you, right?

Like, I got the flu. Like, I'm not the flu. It's something that happened to me. Exactly. And I don't, even myself, like, when I think about, you know, let's say, like a marijuana addiction, I don't think about a marijuana addiction, like, happening to someone. It's not like you're walking down the street and you contract a marijuana addiction. But what I'm hearing from you guys is that, like, actually, you guys, like, contracted this.

That there's a disturbing amount of commonality with your story about being exposed to sexual images, like, way before puberty, before understanding what it was. And like your mind almost having a non-sexualized, like, bizarre, like, fascination with some images or things like that. And then y'all are kind of like off to the racist. And it sounds like in a lot of cases there's actually like frank trauma. Yeah. Dr. Kay, can I ask you a question going off of that? Go for it, man. I love the way that you put that, you know,

it's one of those things that it's like it was forced on you. It was not something that you wanted. But my question to you is how much of, I don't want to, you know, it to sound too weird, but I guess I can just call it like the human element of just trying something to try it. How much of that do you truly believe? comes into play when it comes to things like pornography and even going to it for the first time

because even there's sometimes there's trauma there's sometimes there's other things but for the most part people go to it because they're fascinated by it they're like oh what's this thing this thing looks so cool let's check it out but what do you say to the people who just had the curiosity and just went for it um so so so you're saying that that that that you're saying that that What would I say to people who just became curious about porn? There wasn't any kind of trauma or anything like that. And they just went for it. And because they went for it, they became addicted.

Yes, that's exactly because I'm trying to think of the complete opposite of what my situation was. That's mine. Someone who, you know, just was like, oh, let's check out porn. Yeah. So here's what I would say. So I think just about every. kid, I would imagine, or most kids, at some point get curious about pornography and go for it. Like, that's a completely normal experience, right? Are we agreed on that?

And I, so, so remember that a disease or when I think of kind of problems or addictions, especially, is when something within you meets the environment in a particular way that is like catastrophic, right? It's not just like kids get exposed to alcohol and marijuana all the time. Some people become addicted. Why is that? Other people do not become addicted. Why is that? So there's something about either there's a biological predisposition or that exposure to porn or curiosity about porn happened in a particular circumstance that allowed the addiction to happen instead of just like being a 15 year old kid and like finding porn and jerking off.

right which is like a pretty normal experience so so something is different i i still think that i i don't this doesn't sound and i i don't mean to say you guys are abnormal but this doesn't sound normal to me this sounds this sounds like an affliction like you guys are using this word these words like damaging right you guys like something is going on in your mind that is not really like even start it doesn't even start start like it sounds out start sexual It's like some kind of weird curiosity where there's some part of your brain, which doesn't understand why this thing is so cool. But like it scratches an itch in your neurons. And then before you know it, you're like scratching that itch over and over and over and over and over again.

This, I don't know how many other people will feel this way, but it's sort of, you mentioned isolation previously. Yeah. And it feels like pornography can kind of, in a really perverse way, sort of not satisfied, but I guess placate that need for human connection. Like when you feel really alone, when I'm around people who I feel care about me, the urge goes away. And it's not because I'm sexually satisfied. It's just that I feel whole. guess, and it's sort of like

it's just filling that void that you're numbing yourself, like it's a sedative almost. At times that's what it can feel like. I agree completely, yeah. I'd say me and Virgil have very, very similar experiences

and we both feel very the same way about it. He basically said everything that I wish I could have said. Yeah. And that's squash talking? Yes, sir. And what about Virgil's experience resonated with you, Squash? Can you just name it?

What he said specifically when in the beginning when he was talking about how porn addiction kind of just, you know, it's. And I'm listening and I'm hearing back what you said, Dr. K when you said, it's a dopamine itch and you just keep scratching it and scratching it and scratching it because I never thought of it like that before. And the way that I view an urge when I personally want to watch porn, it's that itch. You know, it's that it's, you just got to scratch it. But with what Virgil said, my point was just I agree with everything of what he was saying. What he was saying about how it makes him feel, I feel very similar along those lines. And Virgil, how does porn make you feel? It's just, it's kind of difficult to verbalize for me.

It feels isolating. It feels like I have some sort of itch that I can't scratch. Like it feels like a physical affliction. Like it's a part of me and I can't necessarily like the trouble that I have is trying to that part of me that's been affecting me for more than 10 years of my life. because I just want to feel like normal I don't I don't feel normal right now I know that sounds kind of a

no no okay guys can I think for a second yeah I think I'm understanding something I just need to understand what I'm understanding yeah so I think I'm hopeful okay that's I was

confusing what I was feeling for a little bit, but it was hope. Okay. That's good. And here's the reason I'm hopeful. So if we think about medicine or mental health, when there are shared experiences amongst people, that means like scientifically like something's going on, right? If you have, if you just have like a one-off event, science is going to have trouble understanding that. It's when we have a repeated observation over and over and over again, that we can begin to understand something. And if we can understand it, I believe that, you know, that significantly improves our chances of improving it or fixing it. Here's what I'm hearing from you guys. This is not, there's a sense of whole. There's a sense of warmth. There's a sense of isolation. There's a sense of something

on that spectrum, which somewhere along the way when y'all were young, something fucked that up. It just came in and it fucked it up. And I'm not quite sure how. And now what it is is you guys have this, this hunger, this sense of isolation, the sense of loneliness, this sense of not being understood. And then along comes porn, which is your brain's way of like taking that away for a little while. Right. And so you guys-

Absolutely. And so you guys have this sense that, okay, and then we get into the situation. that y'all are in now where like you can only like fight off hunger for so long right and all of you guys are using this strategy of like fighting off hunger which if you think about it that's just not going to work right you can't fight off like hunger needs to be satisfied the thing is though what you guys do doesn't truly satisfy that hunger like the hunger is partially for porn but it's like partially for something else Does that make sense? Yeah.

Yeah. It's like you're eating shitty food and it feels like it's the only food available. Yeah. Like you can never cure hunger, but you could eat better food. And so I think that if you guys want to be free of this,

and I do believe, and this could be a little bit stupid, I do believe that people's like mental health can be substantially like improved. I don't think it's a lifelong struggle. I just kind of choose not to believe that. I've seen enough stuff in my personal career to where I think people can really like conquer what we call quote unquote mental illness.

It doesn't mean that they don't need to be on medication or that it won't crop up from time to time. But I think you can basically live a normal life. Like that's my target. I don't set my target any lower than that. I think you guys can live a normal life. And I think what it comes down to is understanding that this thing, you guys can't fight the hunger.

You're just not going to be able to. So the question is, how do you satisfy that in the way that is, like, healthy and good? Because I don't think that that hunger, I don't think your body is stupidly hungry, right? I think in each of y'all's cases, something happened to you that you became damaged or busted in some way. And something within you is just striving to be, like, whole again. That's what I'm hearing from y'all, is that y'all want to be whole again. Yeah. This might sound, um, oh, sorry, go on.

Go for it, buddy. This might sound wild. I don't know if this is going to resonate with anyone. But there are times where I've, it feels like you can be so addicted to porn that I've preferred porn over sex, which might sound crazy to some people. But it really can,

it feels like because it's a solo activity, there's more, I feel like I'm still stuck in my head having sex because there's another person there, and I can't get that same feeling of escape. I agree. Yeah. It's almost like another element of control that you have as well. At least it's Saudi.

Yeah. Yeah. You're the monster of this situation. So not to be indelicate, but I don't think sex and what y'all are dealing with is the same at all. They're like completely different phenomenon. Right? Yeah. And just because you not.

at the end does not mean it's similar at all. Right. And that's my whole point is that I think we need to like, if we want to get better or make you guys whole again, we have to like really understand what it is and what it isn't. And let's take a step back and not judge it and just assume that sex is going to be a replacement for this because that doesn't sound like that's the same thing at all. Right. It's not just about ejaculation. It's not about arousal. It's not just about sexuality. but it does get modeled together with those things. Yeah. Yeah. When I was doing no FAP for the like that month,

every time I had the urge, I will do push-ups. And I was trying to do 100 push-ups a day. And I felt like it helped because I was sort of releasing energy. It's like I didn't feel like Fapping was the thing that was going to be, it's kind of hard to put it in words. Like you transmuted it. Yeah, yeah. Like, the urge wasn't really for the fapping.

It was more like releasing the energy, if that makes sense. Yep. And I think because I was so addicted, like, the only way I saw of releasing that energy was searching off. Okay, so Harold, it looked like you wanted, sorry, not Harold. Aaron, it looked like you wanted to say something? Yeah.

Yeah. When, yeah, I also in firmly in agreement that it can be healed and it can be done like, I guess, overcoming this. Because I've done it before. Yeah. I've done it before. And what it required was, uh, Sort of, yeah, fulfilling that void that is there that sort of the porn addiction kind of just barely emptily feels. What I found is very helpful is just having that, like being able to be open about it and face it head on. Actually, during that time of two years, I didn't have, I had a girlfriend, but I didn't have sex. So it wasn't even like sex was a replacement for it. It was just being appreciated and being in a lot of healthy relationships. And also having a Dharma to also mention that.

Having some sort of purpose that allows you to push forward, that helps a lot as well. Thanks for sharing. Dr. Kay, can I go off of what he said? Yeah, please, man. Go for it. For me, personally, I related to that because it really just takes a lot of energy to actually fight the urges. And I realized that last night, as I was lying in bed, it was like 9 o'clock, and I was playing Grand Theft Auto. And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, like, I totally can just masturbate. There's no problem.

There's no issue. I can watch porn. a big deal. But then I kind of stopped and I really paused and I said to myself like, dude, you don't want to do it. There's no reason for you to do it. But the amount of energy and the amount of strength it took for me to just simply like not do it. It was really interesting to me to see it because I've never seen that before in my entire life. And for the first time last night when I stopped, I was just like, wow, dude, like I'm six foot seven. I'm a lot stronger than I think, you know?

It's like I, I like to think of myself as so small and I like to think with myself as like such a tiny dude. But it's like I'm six, seven. Like I'm a big guy. I'm a strong dude. I like to move. I like to release energy and shit. But it's like to stop it, it just takes a lot, man. It takes a lot.

Yeah. So I think that's that's because the Somskar. So I'm fucking amazed by y'all's understanding of Sanskrit concept. So props to y'all. So I'm just going to dive right in. okay, and if I leave someone behind, just please let us know. So I think that's because the somscar that forms that is hungry is not six foot seven. It's like an 11-year-old kid.

Yes. That same kid. That same kid. Right? So, Harold, I think you said yes first. Yeah. Well, actually, I said yet because I thought it was interesting. because for me, it's not really...

It's hard to place the age of that sumscar. It's kind of like this... For me, it's such an alien thing in my mind that I can't really compare it to any age. It's like this thing. I don't know, it's... Hungry thing. Yeah, yeah.

Like a hungry beast kind of a thing, like a blob. I don't know. Yeah, so how long has it been with you, Harold? Well, for me, I started like around 10 and 11, like most of these people. And so at first it wasn't really that bad. I mean, some guy talked to me about porn like in elementary school. And so I just looked it up and I didn't really get hooked on it then, right then. But then I'm guessing it's because as I got into middle school,

cool and I was like having trouble with finding friends, especially like good friends. I was, I was in this group of friends, but I just knew they weren't really, you know, great people for me. But I was just sort of lost in that sense. And so I guess I gravitated more towards porn like then, especially because those friends actually talked about it as well with me. And so they just talked about it as like this cool thing. And, you know, it just, I think that helped to solidify my attachment to it. And then I just started, for me, it was kind of a gradual thing. I just, I started watching more and more, but super slowly.

because like throughout the middle school years it got worse and worse but it wasn't really as often as some people have said sometimes it was three times per day but usually it was like once a day I don't know where I'm going with this

no I mean I think it you know Harold so guys by the way y'all don't have to make sense okay just to be clear so like you're not here to make sense. That's my job. I'm supposed to take whatever you guys. So don't worry about making sense. Okay? I'm just, just the more you guys, I think, share with each other. So first of all, you guys, I don't know if you all, like, how does it feel to be talking about this, by the way?

Um, at first, I was very nervous about it, um, considering like the overall stigma on the topic. And it's, it's really easy for people to laugh at the issue. But, you know, when you're in our position, you won't be laughing then. But now it just feels very relieving to me. I agree. Yeah, I agree too. Go for it, George. Okay, so it feels really reliving because I've never talked about this subject with anyone else.

Like, this is the first time I'm actually talking with someone about this. And so, like, hearing other people talk about it, just sharing my story, like, it feels relieving. It feels like I'm less, I'm less closed off. I don't think that's the word. Like, I'm not as constrained as I was. Like I can now see that this is not something that only happens to me. Like I can relate to the people in this group and these people probably can relate to me. And that kind of makes, like, gives me a sense of happy.

because like, okay, I'm not alone with the end days. Oh, I'm absolutely. So I think, I mean, you know, do you guys feel like the people who are on this call understand you? Yeah. What does that feel like? Feels good. Like you're not a freak. Yeah.

So, so let me ask you guys this. The part of you that's hungry, what happens to that part when you're understood by others? goes away. You're still at peace. Right now it's gone, completely gone. It's smaller. So what do you all think about that? It's for me personally.

It's just Dr. K, I've been dealing with this for a really long time. And I'm not a social dude. I don't have any, like, Facebook. I deleted all of my Snapchat. Like, I'm on nothing, man. It's like, I work, I go to school. I have a very, very small circle.

Like I have a very loving family And it's like I get really lonely sometimes And it's just I said You know what? I'm going to try this I'm going to see what this is like And it's just this whole experience

chatting with everyone in the call Just not feeling like such a freak It's a really rewarding thing And I'm very thankful for that Yeah so I want you guys to just notice this right Because I don't think this gets better Through control Control matters

I think it gets better when whatever that thing within you that is broken and alone and sort of like wants to be in the darkness but also like thrives on it right like darkness fucking feeds this shit yes yes and like you guys you guys need the fucking light man and the amazing thing is that when you put light on it

it just goes away it gets weakened in the past that um when something is kept within like a somscar, it just grows until it eventually consumes you. And that's like a really relatable feeling. Yeah, definitely. That's what's happening here, guys, is that you guys have had this thing. And just think about how long you guys have been carrying this.

How long it's been in your basement and sort of like feeding off of that darkness. Right? Like we're talking like a decade or more for. So it feels really strong. And you guys will. Also, it's... Go for it. Okay.

Like earlier we were talking about physical feelings. Like mentally, and I'm sort of, I'm okay with talking about this. And I wasn't really that anxious. But when you joined the call, it wasn't like a thought that hit me. It was this physical... It felt like that got agitated. And it was like this wave of energy sort of overwhelming my nervous system. Like it was rushing through every part of me really intensely.

And as the call's gone on, I've sort of been able to sit in the experience and my body is sort of calming down, which is quite a refreshing feeling. Yeah. So, okay. Anybody else want to add anything? I think this is all great. Yeah. Actually, it reminds me of a lot of these times where, I mean, I've gone sometimes without porn for a long time, like up to like 50 days one time, I think. And then when you're without it for a while and then you come back to it, you get like for me, my whole body just starts trembling. Like when I see just one suggestive image, like I just start trembling like super violently. Yep. And that's kind of the same feeling I got when I joined the stream as well. It's like this thing is like waking up.

It's freaky. Like it was dormant. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. This is some, this is some demonic possession level shit, man.

I don't know if anyone used the word animalistic impulse, but I don't know if it's hardwire in our nature. I remember there was something that someone told me. Humans are meant to mate. Humans are made to survive. That's it. We're married to mate and feed and we die. And it's a really weird way to think about that. And I don't like seeing it in that light.

So the thing with me is I don't want to see it as like a monster anymore. For me, it's like I train after I masturbate. I don't have the energy to go to Jiu-Jitsu. I want to train, man. I haven't gone to training in like two weeks because I've been on a really bad binge. So I'm going to go to training. I'm going to go to Jiu-Jitsu and I'm going to be fine, man. I'm going to be able to put the energy in different places

and not have to rely on this crutch that I've been dealing with for so long. Can I get a fuck yeah? Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah, man. Absolutely, man. So, so I, okay, I got to, I just need a second to think. Is that okay, guys? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. All right. So I, we can talk more. There's a lot of stuff we haven't covered, right? So we haven't really talked about no-fap. We haven't talked about relationships. I think all that stuff is going to be, you know, super important to talk about.

Right. But there's a part of me that. that wants to help y'all. And I think we've done that already. So I feel good about that. But I want to help you guys more concretely. And so I want to talk to you guys about solutions. Is that okay?

Yeah. So the first thing is that this is a physical thing. This is not like you guys aren't like mentally ill. I mean, sure you, I'm sure you meet some criteria somewhere. But like I don't, I don't think of this as a defect in your mind. Okay.

I think about, I mean, there's just this overwhelming sense that something happened to you guys when y'all were young and something kind of got damaged. And then that is a thing that is not bad. It's not evil. It's just hungry. It's just unsatisfied. And whatever that thing is, call it loneliness, call it the beast, call it a demon, I don't think it's actually an evil thing. I think it just gets, you know, it's going to eat whatever it can, however it knows best. Does that make sense? It's kind of like a stupid. Yeah, absolutely. It's like the striga.

Yeah. And so I think much like the striga, you can find the princess underneath. Right. So I think that's actually what needs to happen. It's a really good analogy, actually. Wait, wait, wait, what's the strigger? People? Who can explain the strigga?

But it's like when there's, when the, when a pregnant mother dies and the baby is like cursed and it comes out and it survives, it just eats the flesh of people. And it's like this cast monster child. Pause, pause for a second. So this is a fictional thing. This isn't a medical. It's not a medical thing. from the Witcher. If you guys have played the Witcher,

if you all have seen, so Ghost, let's just start there, right? We got to let people know. It's not a real thing. Anyway, so it's like a curse thing that's just perpetually hungry.

And if all it eats is like dead flesh, then it's going to be evil. But it doesn't necessarily have to be. Yeah, so it's kind of like a baby that's, you know, tragic circumstances and all that, and then it kind of becomes a demon sort of thing.

But, So the first thing is that I think that, you know, you guys are just missing something that is not, I mean, it's not that you all are like morally defect. It's that something happened to you guys when y'all were pretty young, it sounds like. And then there's something within you that's just hungry for wholeness, for more, for, beyond anything else, what I'm sensing you guys need is wholeness. You all just want to be like whole and calm and like chilling in the sun and not like hungry and like a half. thing that's like half living in the basement. And then you guys are fighting this thing, right? Because sometimes it comes out of the basement. And sometimes you guys like, you grab like a chair and a whip and you guys like drive it back into the basement. And then it's like down there and it's

mucking around for a while. Then it bursts out again. And then you guys are in this constant war, which you're just not going to win. Like that's not going to be how it works. But there are things that calm it down. Right. There are things that cause it to be like more content. And that's actually like talking to other people. It's like recognizing that, oh, there's like a half dozen dudes out there who have like weird striggas in their basement. And somehow like you feel like at peace. And as long as you, the more that we can cultivate that sense of wholeness, and we'll get to how to do that. And what I'm talking about is wholeness. I'm talking about warmth. I'm talking about connection. The less powerful this thing is going to become.

And our strategy, he... Go for it, Ghost. Oh, sorry. It sort of feels like the idea, Jung's idea of like integrating the shadow. If you continue to just repress it, it will grow into this monster. But it's a part of you.

It's like a part of your soul that you're repressing. And the sooner that you learn to integrate it into who you are, the sooner you can feel whole again. Yeah, I completely agree. So I'm a big fan of Jung. And that's a big part of like, my general treatment approach, right?

Which is that we are, just like Ghost said, that we have parts of us, and then, like, we have to bring those parts together. Because I think this thing is not evil. What it is is hurt. Does that make sense? Like, this thing is just a gigantic ball of hurt.

And then what it's done is it's managed to find some circuit in your brain, which makes it feel a little bit better for a little lot. And since that hurt and that hunger or there, it's going to like keep on making you fat because like that's the only way it knows how to feel like a little bit better for a little for a little while and so the solution here is not to get like really really controlling i mean we can talk about that in terms of like resisting the urge to fat because there may be some value to that it's really in figuring out like what is this hunger

inside you and like how can we calm that down how can we help you feel like loved and whole and accepted. Because the more you guys feel that way, and this is the other trend that I'm noticing, is that, you know, when you guys start to feel like positivity in your life, the thing weakens. So what we want to do is not conquer it. We want to like make it weak. We want to tame it, not like destroy it. Does that make sense? Yeah. Any questions about that general idea? Like who here disagrees with what I'm saying and sort of thinks like, oh no, this is like we're completely off? I agree, but one thing I sort of want to draw attention to, I remember you said something on another stream about if someone is like anorexic and they're cutting and they have like academic problems, you can start to solve one, but then the problem will manifest with the others.

It feels like there have been times in my life where I've been able to not kick the addiction, but I guess keep it at bay for long enough to see that I could live a better life without. it and that my life is better without it. But then it feels like I'm scared of my own success and I get drawn back into it. Beautiful. There's comfort in the pit, it feels like, because you can't fall further than the bottom of the pit. Yep. So I was, you, you jumped ahead a little bit.

But there's, there's one thing that I think is going to be really dangerous, guys, is that as you guys get better, this thing is going to start freaking the fuck out and it's going to be harder to resist because it does not want to die. And as you put light onto it, it's going to feel afraid that it is dying. This is some weird like psycho mumbo jumbo kind of bullshit. Okay. So like this is not scientific. But like there is something within me that that tells me that as you guys actually start to get better, as we start to sometimes heal wounds, they don't understand what the fuck is happening. Like there is some part of you that's going to be primitive and it's going to fight you tooth and nail to bring you back to where you were.

Because the mind prefers what it knows to what's good. Yeah. Right. Especially when it's, especially when it's something that, you know, you've become so used to and it kind of gets part of your routine. You know, you do the same things every single day and you don't even realize it. The same job, the same school, the same work, same wife, same girlfriend, you know, it's, it's all. a circle. It's all one big circle. Absolutely. It's about breaking that circle.

It's about breaking out. Here's the thing. You guys have been struggling with this for so long, for so many years. We're talking a decade or more, right, for many of you all. And so there's going to be a part of you that says, even though your life is shitty right now, at least you can survive. I know you can survive. I've done it for a decade. I can do it for five more. NBD. No big deal. and there's going to be a part of there's going to be a time and place where actually I think you guys are going to need another level of courage to actually like risk living a life without this thing because then you don't know if you're going to be able to survive. I know it sounds completely crazy. And this is like,

huh? You guys get what I'm saying? Absolutely. So that really. Sorry, go on. So what I mean to say is that there's. What I mean to say is that there's actually going to be a time where right now you guys want to be free from this, right? You are going to have to fight a battle because one day there's going to be a thought in your mind where you don't want to be free of it.

You actually want to go back. That's going to be a fucking hard battle. Does that make sense? Yeah. I've had literal flashbacks before. When I've like abstained, I've had sudden memories come to me. of the process and it's it feels like um like on its dying breath it's desperately trying to put up one last fight and it feels like it feels like a battle of forces within you and that

the whole you is like the body on which these competing forces is acting and you're just sort of watching a war within yourself yeah so you guys have to watch out for this okay we're gonna I mean, this is, I do not envy you guys. So up until this point, I really have not thought about this, but this is the one moment where I no longer, I mean, I, like, I feel sad for your situation. Because I think this is a hard, like, it's hard to let go. And that's what you guys need to learn how to do, which is going to get there. But you have to let go of wanting this thing, right? You have to say to yourself at some point, like, okay, that's a life that it's going to tell you.

and you guys have, we haven't talked too much about rationalizations and all that, but you guys know your mind rationalized all kinds of shit to you. So it's not about convincing it that it's wrong because here's the crazy thing. It's not wrong. That's your Buddha being controlled by the Samskar. And it's not wrong. That's why it's so fucking hard to argue against because you guys are smart. And the smarter you are, the better it's going to be at coming up with reasons to convince you.

So it's not. yourself better. Absolutely. So it's not about convincing it. It's not about fighting it. It's about letting go. It's about saying, yeah, you're right. There are a thousand good reasons for me to go back to that lifestyle. There's security there. There's safety there. I get to be in control of the hurt inside me. And that's what you guys have to give up. That's what's fucking hard. Because right now, you guys have a light switch to control the hurt inside you. You can go to this thing and the heart. You can go to this thing. And the heart. inside you gets taken care of for a little while and in a shitty way, but it gets taken care of. And what you guys have to choose is a life where you're no longer in control of that hurt. You got to give up, this is your fucking cheat code. It's the coping mechanism for everything negative within you. What would you say if, um, if you feel like there's immense sort of guilt and shame within you from, let's say, age four or five onwards and it feels like there's this really dominant force in you that feels

that you deserve this pain and you deserve to be in the pit. How would you say, yeah, how would you go about dealing with that? I mean, I think that's the crux, right? That's the damage. That's the thing. So I think you've got to figure out, you know, why you started believing yourself, why you started believing that about yourself. And then as long as you believe that, so that's what you have to let go of. So that too, and sorry if I'm speaking abstractly, because it's, I mean, you weren't saying something vague,

but I just don't know if other people are going to understand this. I feel like hopefully you will. So there's something very possessive. Like you want to hang on to that, right? There's something very jealous about, your shame. You're like, you deserve this. This is yours to bear. It's mine. It's my precious. Right? And you want to hang on to it. Even though it makes you feel bad, you want to hang on to it. You got to let go. And this is the really dangerous thing when it comes to like letting go of

negative feelings within you. Like, do you guys understand that when you all have that negative feeling within, you know, since the age of five, you've had this thing. And then now you guys have walls that keep it at bay, which is the porn addiction. You guys build up walls to protect yourselves. You guys are, y'all are fucking good people. Right? Like, I look at you guys and I like each and every one of you. I'm surprised by how normal you are, right?

Like, you guys are normal people. There's nothing wrong with you. That means a lot of comments from you, Dr. Kay. And I know. That's a giant compliment. I know what abnormal looks like. I'm an expert at the abnormal

and y'all are fucking normal you guys are just normal people that had something fucking bad happened to you and then your brain is wired a certain way and then you use these you build up these walls

around all of these negative feelings and so now you guys need immense courage because taking those walls down is fucking it's hard because ghost you have to let that shame run rampant

through your mind You have to open the door to that shame because right now you keep it walled off. Because you can control it. Ignoraging it is the first step. Not just acknowledge it. It's just breaking the fucking walls down and letting it flood you. That's what you've got to do. Like sit in the experience and sort of observe it.

Yeah. I mean, if you can observe it, fantastic. I think you're going to get fucking overwhelmed for a little while. And then you'll, you got to come up for air. You know, it's going to wash over you. So I think at some point, point there's got to be some letting go and that kind of stuff. But I'm also like a really practical guy. Like I can tell you guys this weird fucking abstract stuff. There's a there's a voice in the

back of my mind that's like what the fuck are these guys going to do with that? Like I could weave this beautiful symbolism and then you know, then you guys like log off the call and then, you know, then what? Go straight back to it. So let's talk concrete. Okay. So, can we go into more so, like, what it is to let go? Good. So, first of all, my approach to it has always been rationalization, and it's always been an uphill battle. What does it mean to let go?

Like, is it just to, like, be in the experience of it? Or I'm not quite sure what you mean by letting it. Yeah, great. So I'm going to tell you guys. So now we get to the concrete part. Great, great question, Richard. So the first thing is that this is something of your. body. It is not necessarily of your mind.

First thing you guys got to do is something physical. So who here goes to a yoga class? Who has access to yoga? You guys do yoga? I do. I've done it before. So all of you guys need to go to yoga or Tai Chi. Either one's fine. Okay? And if you want to

understand what letting go is, Richard, do yoga. Then you'll understand. Yoga. Okay. Can I throw in another sample and see if it might work. So I'm fairly blessed to have a sauna inside my house and I use it very regularly. Does it have the same kind of effects as yoga or is there something about the experience of yoga when you're using your body complex to, you know, do yoga stuff? Yoga is superior. Sonas making more receptive to endorphins. So sauna's fantastic. I think

If you have access to Asana, first of all, jealous much. And then secondly, it is different, okay? So there's overwhelming scientific research that mind-body exercise practices are superior to other exercise practices. Okay? So like there are lots of randomized controlled trials that compare yoga to exercise. So the control, you guys know what to like how a randomized controlled trial works? Yeah. Okay. Just real quick. So what we do is we take, we're studying a condition, let's say like depression or anxiety. And then, so let's just say anxiety. And what we do is we take 100 people and we put 50 of them in a control group. And so the control group is sometimes like an exercise class and 50 of them in a yoga class. And then we measure their anxiety like after eight weeks and we see like what's going on. So yoga and Tai Chi have been shown to be superior to exercise. And it's probably because they have a relative. mental component. So yoga and Tai Chi are both mind-body practices. They're like both mental and

physical practices. They're not just physical practices. And for a lot of people who exercise, they over time incorporate a mental component, but yoga and Tai Chi are like designed to be mind-body practices, whereas a lot of people will discover a mental component to their physical exercise. But it's not like baked in. Like running is a good example where people who are runners will describe this kind of meditative, like, state when they run for long periods of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, runners. Yes, yes. Yeah.

But, but, I mean, but that's all, I mean, it's yoga is like designed to sort of make you into a particular mind-body space, which I think is going to help you. Can I ask a question about yoga? Yeah. I remember, I saw you, you did an exercise with someone where you had them buzzed like a bee, and it really fascinated me and it made me think about the connection between the body and emotion

and I was reading about this idea that trauma is like physically stored in the body and that yoga is like opening a series of chambers throughout the body and it sort of allows the emotions to flow through because like you know I don't want to like a tirade here

but like if your nervous system gets overwhelmed like your body floods with the emotion and it can just store it for years and it can make you like physiologically, it increases like your morbidity and everything. And I was reading that yoga paired with therapy is better than either one of them alone, because yoga allows the emotions to flow through your body. So they can more easily be sort of opened up. And it was saying that memory trauma and the body are all linked in that way. Yeah. So I believe most of that,

although most of that is not scientific. Right. So there, there's like a lot of pseudoscientific. around physical stuff and trauma. In my experience, what I think is much more scientifically valid is simply that men experience emotions much more physically than mentally. So if you talk to men, like when you guys are talking about, like, what are the words that we use to describe this thing? Destructed. Damaged physically.

Deceitful? No, we don't use deceitful. We haven't. Deceitful has not been mentioned at all. Mike point entirely. What is the actual language that you guys used to describe this? Hunger. Absolutely, right?

You guys don't think that's a fucking emotion? That's an emotion. Right? I see. But you guys don't understand what emotion it is. But everyone understands like one person's like hungry and then everyone else is like, yeah, man. Like, that's an emotion. Right?

And so, so, so, so, I mean, The whole point is that this is physical. Like, we've been fucking talking about trauma. You guys have been traumatized when you're all like 10. And you guys talk about hunger now. Like, this is my point. Is that, that it's not the children are in-cait's just like literally like this is how we're like, we're socialized to experience emotion this way. So we are going to access this.

So I agree, ghost, that yoga is very helpful for trauma. I agree that trauma has, I mean, I think anything in our mind. has some kind of physical manifestation or correlation. And a lot of this stuff about, you know, using like physical like knots and energy and chakras, like I buy into a lot of that stuff, but it's not actually scientific, okay? So we just got to be a little bit careful there. So it doesn't mean that it doesn't help. It doesn't mean that it isn't therapeutic.

And I'm advocating yoga to you guys. I think you guys must do yoga because you have to get in touch with your body. Because this is a physical thing for you all. And yoga is going to. connect your physical sensations with emotions. And it's also just, you know, does good things for your immune system and things like that. Second thing. Yeah. And so the goal of yoga is to help you guys be in your body. And Richard, when you say, how do you let go? I mean, so that's not some, we can talk about it more, but my voice isn't going to last very long. But I think it's ultimately

something that you have to learn how to do, right? Like, so if I took like a two-year-old kid, and I was teaching that kid how to let go. Like, how do I teach that kid? So it's a good question. I think as you do yoga, you'll learn that like getting into the right pose is not about trying harder. It's actually about letting go. Would you say that yoga is for the body, what meditation is for the mind? Like it's almost this sort of meditative process.

Well, yeah. So technically, what you're... yoga is, is a premeditation state for, it's like, it's to prepare your body for meditation. And there, the, the, when, whenever you guys are doing yoga, so I'm going to teach you guys just a little bit about yoga because there seems to be some curiosity, okay? So the goal of yoga is to bring the attention of your mind to the present. So we're going to do, we need Richard for this because Richard has to. Okay. We're going to, I'm going to teach you guys exactly what yoga is. So the goal of yoga is to bring the attention of your mind to the present. And so the goal of turning yourself into a human pretzel is not to increase your flexibility.

It's to adopt a particular physical, like, posture that you can't think about anything else. Okay? So we're going to do this right now. You guys ready? Hold your arms up. Yeah. And tell me what's happening in your mind. It's pushed to talk.

Yeah, push to talk. Y'all are fucked. Okay. Okay, so I want you guys to just notice, okay? So arms up. So you guys are having thoughts. But over time, what's going to happen? The physical demands of your body, arms up, no pushing to talk. Okay, so just keep your arms up.

So as your arms get tired, just keep them up there. It's going to start demanding your attention. You guys feel that? Your arms are like signaling to you now. They're like, hey, hey, we're up here. And then the further, the longer we go, the more your attention is going to be stuck in your arms. Does that make sense?

The arms are demanding the attention. Demanding your attention, demanding your attention. Notice what's happening in your mind now. Close your eyes. Feel. Hold it. Good. Now, continue to feel.

You may notice thoughts arise. you may notice perspiration okay now hold it hold it hold it and now let go you feel that Richard absolutely eyes closed

oh yeah that is fucking letting go do you understand now just feel that's letting go how do you all feel right now now you can open your eyes and use push your talk peaceful

like a weight's been lifted. Incredible. Yeah, relieved. That, geez, that physical, I don't know, that physical exercise was such a powerful experience. That my mind trying to like, my arms trying to bring the attention to my mind was a, it started to kind of build and then I was able to like,

maintain that connection. And then once I let go, It was just like, okay, I've accepted that it's time to just, ah. So Richard, what- That's letting go, right? Like, I can't fucking explain it, but you got to, you know, you got to let go. It's like answering, answering the demands of your arms that are saying like, dude, put me down, please.

Yes. And you're finally answering that. Exactly, exactly. Right? Okay. So you guys All right I got

I got addicted to running in the past and it feels like I now understand where that feeling came from like I was letting go That is great point That is really enjoyed that feeling Like when you focus on When you focus on the energy demand of your body

And when you really experience The sensation of running without You know suffering When you just feel the sort of pain But neutrally It's this really peaceful state. I was going to ask Dr. K about the connection between yoga and why yoga was so different. And the way that I was able to put all of my attention up on my arms reminded me of my jiu-jitsu training.

But that was special. I didn't realize how simple it was when you take out a lot of the complicated things. Like you said, you're not trying to turn your body into a pretzel. You're trying to use your mind to get to. to a better place. And I think yoga, that's amazing. Okay. Beautiful.

I'm glad you guys liked that. So, let, yeah. I just have a personal concern about yoga because I broke my back a few years ago. And I was just wondering if there are like more simple poses that I can do or simple things like, like what we just did, like raising our arms up. or something like that that can benefit me because I have limited mobility and everything. Absolutely.

So, first of all, if you have a, if you've broken your back, you know, talk to your doctor about doing yoga or Tai Chi. Sometimes people handle Tai Chi a little bit better than yoga if they've had a back injury, but yoga is actually really good for back injuries. So if you go to a yoga class and you guys have like a medical condition, you should let the instructors know and also talk to your doctor about it and just say, hey, and then, you know, listen to your body. So don't like, it's not about a pissing contest. It's not about who can hold their arms up the longest. You guys understand that if you're comparing yourself to someone else in

the room, your mind is not where it should be, which is on you. So don't do anything in yoga that is painful. Yoga's not supposed to be painful. So if your back is signaling to you, hey, I don't like this kind of stuff, that's completely fine. There are all kinds of postures that you can do from seated position. There are all kinds of postures that you can do fucking straight laying down. You can do all kinds of stuff with a back injury and yoga. So definitely, you can also, you know, have you seen a physical therapist in recovery after your back after you broke your back? Yeah, I went through physical therapy for about six months. It helped a lot.

And now I don't, I don't really need it anymore. But. Yeah. So if you don't need it, you're probably kind of back to normal. So it's good to know if you, you know, to be careful about yoga. But the other thing that you can do is, depending on how long ago that was or if you have a relationship with your physical therapist, you can also talk to them and say, hey, I'm interested in doing a yoga class. What do you think? Are there some kinds of strengthening exercises that I need to do?

Or there's some things that I need to avoid? And really, like, this is exactly what, you know, physical therapists and doctors are for. Right. Great point. Okay. So, coming back to this. Now, earlier I was kind of talking about, you know, the same. sequence of events before you kind of, you know, when you kind of feel certain physical things

or mental things, you can try to rationalize and all that kind of stuff. So the other thing about this practice is where was your mind? It was mostly on my arms. Like, I've had experience experiences with meditating before. I'd probably one of the most transformative experiences while I was meditating a few years ago. I felt like it was very easy for me to just focus all the tension on my arms. Good. Right. Go for me.

My mind was, my mind was blank and just experiencing the sensation was, I don't know if that was in my mind or that was my body, but that's all I was doing. I was just experiencing the sensation. So that's consciousness, right? So it's consciousness without mental activity. So thoughts are the mind. desires, thoughts, that's all mine. You guys were hopefully conscious, so you were present and experiencing without thought. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And when you guys struggle against the porn addiction, is that within the mind or outside of the mind? It's outside of the mind because of the physical urge that we have to do it. Okay. And then what about the battle? Where does the battle take place? The trouble is in your head. In the mind?

Yeah. Absolutely. Right? So the other thing that I want you guys to try to do is learn something called urge surfing. So as you feel that physical sensation, notice the connection between the physical sensation and what it creates in your mind. And then you guys fight in the mind. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose.

So be it. If you can step out of your mind and sit with the physical sensation, just see what happens. And understand that that desire to turn to porn is going to be like, it's like an urge that's going to come and you can actually surf on top of it. It's not fighting against it. It's not trying to keep the waves at bay. It's just riding it out. Surf. I read that monks can hold their hand on burning hot objects for longer just by focusing on the sensation of the burn.

Is that like a sort of similar feeling that you're able to sort of quell the immense feeling just by focusing in on it? Yeah. So once you experience, so don't hold your hand on burning things just to be clear. But what monks are able to do is to sit with a sensation without judgment. Right. So like it feels bad to hold your arm up, but you can sit with that feeling of badness for a longer period of time, as long as you're sitting with it pure. Does that make sense? Like with intention and focus, you can sit with a negative sensation for a greater amount of time than you otherwise would.

So it's like decoupling the emotional component from just the actual sensation itself. Beautiful. It's decoupling everything, not just the emotional component. Decoupling is the point. Decoupling is Vairagya or detachment. It's separating yourself from the thing. Okay, now we're getting into advanced concepts. I want to close off a couple things to leave you guys, you know, with like some kind of plan.

So yoga. Second thing is understand that when you guys do these practices, you're training your mind to do what you tell it to, which is to focus on what you choose to do. This is cool because once you train this skill, you can tell your mind, hey, I want you to go and think about that. And then your mind is going to be like, okay, because right now that's not what it does. right now your mind is like oh porn and then you're like no no no no come over here and then your mind is like no no no no let's go to porn and you're like no no no no no porn so like train yourself to focus your mind where you want it to go that is a skill you can level that shit up and this is how you do it

right you do this shit every single day not necessarily that one but if you guys like that one you can do that one now we get to one more yoga practice, which I'm going to teach you guys. I'm going to teach you guys a banta. Okay, so number one, do any of you guys have a history of a hernia? Okay, if you have a history of a hernia, you shouldn't do it. If this is unpleasant or is painful in any way or anything like that, any of you guys have history of- Is it like the base chakra thing? Yes, that's exactly what it is. So any of you guys have a history of like improper valves in somewhere in your urinary tract or anything like that. Okay. So rule number one,

If this causes some kind of pain or unpleasantness or anything like that, just stop, okay? I'm going to teach you guys something called a bunda, which is a lock. So bunda means lock, like L-O-C-K. So what I want you guys, do you guys know where the taint is? Yeah. Okay. So the taint is the area, it's your perennium, it's the area between your scrotum and your anus. Okay?

So I want you guys to try doing something. I know this is going to sound kind of weird. but you guys know you can contract that yeah so like you know there's a muscle that you can do that you can use to like lift your penis right like the kegel thing yes like the keegel thing focus boys and girls so you know there there's you guys know so i just flex that muscle for a second you guys know what i'm talking about

flex it so you can raise the penis and now as you flex it you should feel a tightness in the perineum with me yeah Yep. Does anyone not have a fucking clue what I'm talking about? Okay. So now close your eyes. And then I want you to tighten. One, two, three, relax. Titan, one, two, three, relax. Titan, one, two, three, relax. Hold on a second. Hello? Hello?

Yeah, they can tighten the perennium, but it's going to be different for them. Okay, bye. Okay, so if you're a woman, you can do this too. So this is the other way you can find this thing is it's also the same muscle that you use to stop the flow of your urine midstream. Does that make sense? I need to piss really badly. Can I go do that first? Yeah, yeah, go piss.

Go piss. Okay. So, but you guys, you guys get the sensation that I'm talking about? So just, okay, let's like, so tighten again. One, two, three, relax. And do two more rounds. Good. Okay.

Fantastic. All right. So yoga class, learn to concentrate your attention. Right? Do this. This is called mula banda. Mula is your, your base chakra and what you're kind of doing, like, so you can do this for, let's say, like,

between one and, start off with, like, just doing five rounds because it's, like, kind of hard, right? Does that make it? It's, like, difficult to do. So you can work your way up to doing, like, you know, rounds that are maybe five seconds, 10 seconds for a total of, like, three minutes. And you want to do this at the end of, like, a meditation practice or end of yoga class or something like that. So if you guys go to a yoga class at the very end, they're going to have you do something called shavasan, which is corpse pose. So they're just going to ask you to lie down on the floor on your back and relax. As you do shavasan, you can do mullah banta for like a minute or two, two minutes, three minutes is fine. Okay. If you start to feel bad or it hurts or anything like that,

don't do it. Um, last thing is that you guys were talking about idleness. And so idleness is going to bring this out. So the other thing that you all have to do is figure out how are you guys, going to, like, reduce the idleness in your life, right? Like, so what do you all want to do about that? The way that I see it, Dr. Kay, is, I view it as internal volume is when I would get an urge to masturbate or to go to porn, I would get a very strong feeling of just, you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this. And it kind of goes into what you were saying a little bit,

earlier about trying to surf and ride that urge and ride it away. And the thing that I wanted to ask you specifically was, what do you do when it gets to a point where you feel like, you know, maybe medication would be something that would be beneficial for me. Maybe I cannot turn down my internal volume. Yeah. So I think it's completely reasonable for you guys to get evaluated by a doctor or mental health professional for this problem. There are some medications that can help with this. They don't

work great. But especially if you guys have some kind of depression or anxiety or things like that that are contributing to it. Because remember that, so conquering this thing is not, it's like, it's about probabilities, right? It's about strengthening your ability to reduce its effect on you. And that battle is fought like 5% at a time. So if you guys start going to yoga class, then that's going to be like 5%. If you start meeting with other people and hanging out, like that's going to be 5%. And then you're going to build up like 5% over time. So I do think that if the urges are too strong, getting a professional evaluation is a great idea.

And the other thing is that, you know, you're not going to fix this overnight. So treat yourself with compassion and forgiveness for like not being able to fix yourself. I don't know. Dr. Kay, I had a quick question on that. Yeah. So I'm in a circumstance where I recently broke my computer right now. I'm using my laptop and I've significantly reduced my video game time. And when my urges occur, they don't occur when I'm playing the video game.

So now that my computer is not functioning right now, I do have a, I'm in a state of, I have a lot more idleness. you know, just throughout the day. So is it more like, do I just need to fill my day with more things outside of the house or any advice? Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying, guys. It's like you guys need to think about this, right? So understand that your forward progress is going to be influenced by your environment. So like the two things that we still need to talk about is idleness and secondly, connection. because when you guys are isolated, things get worse.

And talking about this, I mean, you guys realize what we've been doing for two hours? We didn't do this for two fucking hours. I had no idea. Right? Tom flies. Like, that's crazy. And so you guys have to structure time with other people, and you have to structure time away from idleness, because you're not going to be able to fix this as long as your idol.

We heard it from squash earlier about, you know, going to jiu-jitsu class and like finding motivation and stuff like that. So I don't know what exactly it looks like, but you guys have to figure out, you know, what you want to do. The other thing is y'all can come hang out on Discord if you guys want to, you know, figure out like, like, if you guys want to meet and just check in with each other once a week, I don't think that's a bad idea. I think that's a great idea. I'm actually going to start at the end. You know, so at some point, you know, I'm in the process of training coaches and maybe the coaches can help you guys out a little bit. not there yet in terms of their training.

But I think you guys should get together because like y'all's camaraderie with each other is like important. Right? And you guys get a lot out of that. So at the end of the day, there's all this deep, damaged, dark whatever inside you. But like yoga classes, mullah banda, thinking about idleness,

and then companionship. Right? Not necessarily like romantic or anything, but just like other people. It's a multiplayer game. You guys got to party up. So if you guys want to, that's what this Discord is for. So, you know, you guys can hop on Discord. But I would just think that each of y'all has to think concretely about what you're going to do to reduce your idleness.

And it's not, quote, unquote, just getting out of the house. Just think about, like, what are the things, when you think about yourself three years from now, what's something that you would like to be different about your life? You know, whether it's being in shape, whether it's learning a different language, whether it's having a job, whether it's being back in school or, you know, just think about this. Like, I don't, I think sometimes like this is going to sound really silly, but you guys realize you create your life. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Right. Like so, so you can, you can actually like try to do something tomorrow in the next day, in the next day. And a year from now, you will be a different person and your life will be different. So think about what that is and start with like one thing. Don't start. Don't start. Don't, don't Make it a wish list. You guys aren't magic genies.

Just pick like one thing, right? Like, what is something that you want to be different about your life? What is something that requires time? Go for it. Something really like sort of hopeful. It feels like when I was still like, so I just turned 18 and it feels like being like an adult now and having these freedoms. It feels like maybe this time I can actually sort of. break the addiction for good because I can go out and actively do things rather than being

considered like a child. So if I can actually create my own life, I think I can kick it. Yeah. So last thing is... I'm sorry? Harold? I'm just bouncing off where he said, I turned 18 like a few months ago as well. And I thought the exact same thing. Like finally, since I'm in more control, I can use that better. So fucking use it. Yeah. Right on, man. I think the problem that I have is that, you know, like, for me personally, I'm financially well off and I'm in a relationship with someone. So those things aren't necessarily something that is grading at me. But I think the core of the problem for me is that I just don't have a sense of purpose.

and I just feel kind of stuck in life. So when I try to integrate these positive behaviors, like, you know, going outside, something as simple as going outside for walk or meditating or something like that, it's hard for me to stick with those things. It's hard for me to even integrate those things in general, even though I want to do that, you know.

Yeah. I think that's something that I struggle with. lot. So Virgil, that's Virgil, right? Yes, sir. Yeah, so Virgil, I completely sympathize with you, Maine. Unfortunately, I don't think we have time to dig into that now because we're about at time for the day. I understand.

But I think, you know, that is a common problem for like everyone on our Discord and everyone in our audience, and it's central to the work that we do at Healthy Gamer. Right. Is it with video games or sorry? Sorry, D. Budden. Is it in terms of like, does it stem from a way? are the way that our brain processes video games and how it changes or is it or are you asking me no i'm asking dr k actually and and so so what's the question um you said that like this is a problem with you know it is uh an obstacle rather that everyone is kind of suffering from from this discord is it um

because i know that a lot of the discord comes from a video game audience um i guess i was trying to hint at that idea is that is that where it's stemming from video games yeah the the process of like having trouble creating things um yes yes and no so i mean i think that's i mean there that's a lot of what i talk about on other streams um i think that many people who are directionless find in the same way that for you guys the porn addiction you know how it like feeds you a little bit but doesn't satisfy, it does the trick, but it doesn't actually satisfy what's missing in your life. So I think a lot of people who feel directionless get some degree of satisfaction from the video game, which is really not what they're looking for, but it's like close enough and it's

easily accessible, right? Because games do challenge us. They're like hard, they're challenging. They give us a sense of accomplishment. You know, we feel like, you know, when you're, like, if you're playing like a competitive game, like you're going to feel really amazing after like a really hard game that you win. And so it's hard for your brain. When you have such an easily accessible trigger for some of those positive feelings, it can be really hard to invest all of this time into like building your life because you don't know what that's going to bring. I have two questions.

Yeah. So the first one, like earlier you were saying, when you were talking about the urge sort of hitting you and your mind bouncing. around. Do you think that vatas are more like predisposed to like falling into that trap being like the wind element and like zoom in. Yes and no.

So I think I think vataz are going to bounce around more. But I don't think that vataz like you know I think everyone is going to have urges. And you guys are by the way a wide variety of different Ayurbedic dosha. But interesting question.

So vatas are going to have more fluctuations within their mind, but I think everyone is going to have the urges. So vatas may experience the urges more quickly and more suddenly, whereas other dosha are going to have kind of a slow burn of an urge that starts to build up in the morning and then kind of creeps up and then kind of overwhelms you. Other people are going to be kind of like medium burn and Vata is going to be like very dynamic in terms of when you experience the urge and how hard it is to, you know, how long the urge is going to last. So I'd say vatas will have high frequency of urges and low duration of urges. That makes sense. They're not going to last long, but they'll hit randomly and more often. Okay, someone's really doing their homework. Okay.

This is unrelated. I just want to quickly ask this. Do you have any thoughts on like, I think it's called Bramacharya in relation to no fat? Okay, so we haven't even talked about no fat. So Brahmacharya is, why don't you start with Ghosts? Why don't you tell us what Bromacharya is? I have like a really basic understanding of it. Sure.

But from my, it seems like it's this idea of like transmuting sexual energy and like the idea of energy like climbing up your chakras to be more conscious and like like. Okay. It's about the way you conduct yourself in like a godly way. So let's talk about what Brahmacharya is. So Brahmacharya is frequently translated as celibacy, which is not really what it is. So brahmacharya means to dwell in Brahman, and Brahman is sort of the infinite or cosmic consciousness. So in the east, they believe that the basic unit of reality is like this cosmic consciousness, and that our individual consciousness is like a drop out of this ocean, and that we kind of get, that bit of consciousness gets wrapped around with a mind and a body, and that's what makes up a person.

And so Brahmacharya is the practice of dwelling in Brahman, so to have your mind or consciousness be focused on the cosmic consciousness and not focused anywhere else. So technically, Brahmacharya is translated as celibacy. So monks, for example, will engage. in Brahmacharya, which means that they usually don't have sex. Technically, though, technically, Brahmacharya does not mean being celibate. It means not being horny. Yeah.

Right? So it's to have your mind dwell in like whatever the infinite is. You know, it's getting hokey. So if you guys want to understand what Ramacharya is, like if you want to understand what the infinite is, I think you guys saw just a tiny, tiny amount of it like when you did the arm practice and then you relax. There's just a moment where you're just like your mind is kind of off, but you're just kind of like chilling.

Like you're in just the straight chilling mode. And when you get closer and closer to Brahman, like you're in that straight chilling mode all the time. And when you're enlightened, that's like what your mind is doing all the time. It's just straight chilling like all the time. So nothing bothers you and like everything's kind of chill and fun. It just a vibe. Yeah.

Okay. So. Anyway, we haven't had a chance to talk about no-fap or relationships, but I'm going to have to stop. Because also, I just can't keep going. So I just want to offer... Huh? I said get some rest. Get some rest.

You deserve a break, man. You deserve a break. Yeah. Yeah, thanks again, Dr. Kay. Okay. Okay. So closing thoughts, guys. I'll go first if no one wants to go.

Go for it, buddy. I want to sincerely thank you gentlemen for being in here with me today. This was one of the coolest experiences I think I've had in 2020, starting it off with Kobe Bryant passing away. And Mac Miller is one of my favorite artists. I've been really, really missing him lately. It's just like, this has really set me on such a really good path. And this has given me such a feeling of empowerment. and enlightenment and I'm honored and I'm blessed at the fact that I got to be here.

So, for a real, thank you guys. Thank you all. And Dr. Kay, feel better, man. Feel better. And can, may I say something? Yeah. So we went over a lot of things relating to porn addiction, how difficult the process of kicking it will be.

for us maybe some more difficult than others but um i would like us to reconvene maybe like once a week and just talk about how things are going for each of us because um i think one of the reasons why we're benefiting from this so much is because we don't have um a person to turn to in our personal lives to to talk about this so I think this this talk was more important that then it may have seemed yeah this experience this experience has been incredible the whole session I thought went really well it was incredible to hear everyone's unique take on this and and it kind of you know widened the my understanding of like what it is to be dealing with this and like probably the best thing my best takeaway i'm going to be watching the vaid to

you know kind of you know look over it again but probably the highlight of it was just to like hear dr k's voice just being in like a total blissful state and just saying i have hope for you guys there's there's something um you know there's something that it's just a simple obstacle it's going to be difficult to take on but um it just comes with you know setting that intention and, you know, sticking to it. So I'm really excited for it. I think I'm speaking on behalf of everyone that, you know, this might be the shift that everyone hears that was looking for. And, yeah, I'm just super excited.

So this has been awesome. Yeah, I just like to say, again, like also, I think I speak for everyone when I say that, like, we all really respect you, Dr. K. and thanks for the AOE healing and I hope you get some healing soon so you don't feel as ill. Yeah, thank you. So let me ask you guys, though. Like, do you have faith?

Do you have hope for each other? Forget about yourself for a second. Do you have hope for the other people in here? Yeah. Every single person in here. Every single person. So just think about that for a second, man. It's not just me.

You guys have hope for each other. Just think about it. that. Every single person in this call has hope for you. Wild. There's seven random strangers from the internet that have hope. After listening to you talk about everything that you've struggled with, they have hope that you can get better. If you don't believe in yourself, you can believe in the people that believe in you. Absolutely. I'm glad my camera's off so you guys can't see my tears. That's awesome. Yeah.

right and so just think about what you had to show the other people on this call to convince every one of them i mean you don't even try to convince them they just they've listened to the words that have come out of your mouth they've watched your face in some cases they've listened to the tone of your voice they've listened to what you've said they've listened to your struggles and they are all concluding that they have hope for you that is fucking amazing all righty anybody else want share some closing thoughts or we I just want to thank you Dr. Kay and everyone in the call for sharing the experiences and like talking about this subject because as I said never really talked about this and it's been really helpful like hearing your stories and just relating to them so yeah

like thank you and I hope you get better and thank you everyone in the call I just want to acknowledge this is completely off topic I just want to acknowledge that the chat is saying I looked like a guy called Booger. I don't know if that's how you say his name. And also, a clock from Santorini. Okay, anybody else want to say goodbye? Are we good? I don't want to pressure anyone.

Thank you so much. All right, guys. Thank you all for coming on this, you know, February 14th, strong work, guys. And once again, just huge props to the, you know, the Cajona is to show up and talk about such a sensitive topic because it's not easy. And, yeah, good luck, guys. Take care. Awesome. I'm counting on everyone here.

Thank you, Matt. Thank you, goodbye. Don't let each other now. We're going to make it. We're going to make it.