HealthyGamerGG - How Self-Deprecation Leads to Isolation ft. ObesetoBeast

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

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Thanks for coming on. No, thank you so much for having me on. I am very excited about this. Yeah, so, oh, oh, so now I understand your name. So obese to beast. Yeah. If you just read it as like, Obes to Beast, it's just like, what is that? I don't understand.

But yeah, it's like obese to Beast. And so I'm presuming that you used to be obese. Yeah, so when I was 20 years old, I was like close to 400 pounds. Oh, my God. Well, probably like three. I always say 360 because when I first started losing weight, I was, didn't want to step on a scale. So I finally stepped on a scale after I had lost quite a bit. And I saw like, 340.

And I was like, oh, I probably lost like 20 pounds. But then I've like talked to other people like my mom and stuff. And she was just like, I think you were bigger than 360. But I've said 360 since I started everything. So I'm not going to like change my high weight because you can't really do that. So yeah, I always say like 360. I don't know. I feel like it would be weird if I've always said I was 360 pounds. Then all of a sudden like someone comes back after a year and I'm saying, yeah, it was 400 pounds.

And you'd be like, wait, what? How did you get heavier at one point? Like, you know? Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, if you understand things to be different, it's cool to change your mind, you know? Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're not wrong. You're not wrong at all. Yeah, it sounds like maybe you're concerned about what other people think. and how you're viewed. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just check in the Discord.

And so what do you, what would you like to be called? Just call me John. John, okay. And John, so I don't know how familiar you are. So John, can you just tell us a little bit about, I understand you have a pretty prominent YouTube channel? Yeah, so,

uh, I do have a YouTube channel. I have like a YouTube channel, Instagram, all that stuff. So, uh, I started the YouTube channel. Like, most of my weight. And it was just a place for me to kind of, so I had the Instagram first, and I was getting a lot of questions that I couldn't really answer on Instagram. This was like

before Instagram even had stories or videos or anything, right? It was only photos. And then so I was like, I had a lot of people that would ask me questions and that I couldn't really answer just through, you know, kind of taking a picture and writing a caption because I hate writing. And so I was like, you know, I want to start a YouTube channel. And I ended up kind of just starting that, just kind of to give people the, like give answers that people had questions to. Give, yeah, give answers. That doesn't make any sense. But, um, and then, so I started off like I wanted to do full day of eating videos to kind of show people what I was eating. And then, uh, like a transformation video. And then so the way that it kind of took off and the way that, um, I was able to become a YouTuber, uh,

was I actually had a video that went really viral. It was about my loose skin. So when you have a lot of weight to lose and you lose a lot of weight, you're left with loose skin. And so I shared a video is called my biggest insecurity, where I kind of, you know, took my shirt off and showed people what my loose skin looked like. And that video just ended up like going viral. And I mean, it completely changed like that video. And then what I was able to do from that video, like, completely changed, like the trajectory of my life. And so since then, I've just been pretty much like making, making videos and streaming and, you know, just being a content creator, I guess. Yeah. Can you help me understand a little bit about,

So actually, let me just take a step back. So, John, are you kind of familiar with what we do? Or do you want a quick intro? Oh, no, no, no. I'm very familiar. I reached out to you guys because I was just like, wow, I've watched a lot of the videos on YouTube because that's where I'm like, that's where I consume a lot of content. And so I was just like, selfishly, I was like, this would be great to talk to Dr. Kay. And then I didn't think anything would happen.

And it worked out. So I'm very awesome. And so let's just talk about that. So, you know, what would you like to talk about? and how can I help or be of service to you today? So the first reason that I reached out was, so this is what was kind of going through in the mind. I felt like it was a little selfish for me to,

this is just how I am, I felt like it was a little and I was like, hey, I would love to talk about the things that I struggle with, right? And so in my head, I was like, okay, how can I make this sound better? So I was like, I would think it would be interesting, talk about like the connection of like mental health and physical health because I personally have you know dealt with like improving my physical health quite a bit and I know like because I speak to

a lot of people that are trying to lose weight improve their physical health and they are also struggling with like mental health and I think a lot of people they think that if they improve their their weight or their physical health they think that it's going to be like it's going to fix their their mental health. And I thought that would be interesting to kind of talk to you about. And then for myself personally, like, I struggle with a lot of the stuff that I've watched. I mean, the reason I knew that you, I even knew about you is because I struggle with these things. And therefore, I was watching videos, right? So like anxiety and like depression, I guess you could call it that at some points. And then I think another thing that I struggle with, which I know

you've talked about before is like imposter syndrome. And so like those are probably like the main things I would say that I that I struggle with for sure. Okay, cool. So let me just, can I just repeat back what I heard, John? So you were hoping to come on to sort of see if maybe I could help you. But then I also get the sense that you felt like maybe that was a little bit selfish and that You wanted to kind of cover things that can be more applicable to other people. And so talking a little bit more about the mind-body connection and stuff like that, which I think is, I think all that stuff is fantastic. So just a couple of thoughts, just like a response, John. First of all, I think it's totally cool for you to be selfish, man.

So I think that this channel is what it is because we talk about one person's problems. It's not an abstract discussion. And I think that's actually what's really cool is that, the problems that you think may be selfish for you to talk about are the very ones that I think will help other people. And at the same time, if you want to talk about mind-body stuff, that's actually, it's interesting because people sort of talk, you know, they think I'm an expert on like video games and social media and technology and stuff, which arguably I am. But really, my background is in mind-body medicine. I mean, that's what I've studied for about 15 years. So I'd love to talk about that just because, you know, I like to hear myself talk about things that I understand.

Same. But, but, but I mean, you know, I would say that what I really try to do, John, is like, I'm here to help you, man. And if it helps other people, fantastic. But it's, it's, you know, I think it's totally cool for us to just talk about you. And then I'll throw in mind, body stuff because you seem to be interested in that. So we'll roll that in there. So tell me, so you said anxiety, depression, and imposter syndrome. Can you tell me what you mean by those terms?

Yeah, I can do try to do my best to explain it. So I, the way that I explain when I like have maybe an anxiety attack or a panic attack or whatever is, it feels like another person is taking over my body. And it's like I have no control over the thoughts that they have. Like, and it's frustrating because I, the people that are closest to me are the people that I end up being like the meanest to or the coldest too. Oh, beautiful. And the, like, ever since I can remember, I've, I've never been a, like, a loud person or like, I never, when I got angry, I don't, I don't lash out. I just shut down. Like, and it's been like this since I was, uh, I was a kid. The one of the, I've, I've, I've shared this experience with like my, my channel and stuff before. But there was one time where I was, it was when I was younger, I, I got into an argument with my, I, I've, I've, I've, I've shared this experience with my, like, my channel and stuff before. But there was, I, I, I got into an argument with my, I, I sister and she said something kind of like about my weight. And then instead of like me and my sister's great, but you know, siblings, but we got into an argument and then she said that. And instead of me like

yelling back at her, I just went into my room, shut my door and I stayed in my room all day long, like the rest of the day. Like this was middle of the day. I stayed in my room until like midnight that night. And then there's there's a taco shop that was by my house when I was growing up that was open 24-7. So I walked to that taco shop. I bought a, uh, uh, uh, they're actually very good. They're called super nachos. So they're basically like nachos with carnia sada, beans, rice, guacamole, like anything. I live in San Diego, right?

So Mexican food is like a really big thing here. And so I went and I got that and I ate the whole thing. Right. And it's like meant for four people like at least, right? And I've been like that with my mom. Whenever we would get into arguments when I was younger, I would shut down. Like it's just how I've always been. And then now as I'm older, like I can't.

really do that as much as I used to because I have other responsibilities. So while I'm shutting down mentally, physically, I'm like, I have to try and do things still. But it's, I don't, it's just so strange because it's like when I'm out of that mode of anxiety or that, like that feeling, I look back and I'm like, what was I doing? Like, why was I doing? Why was I acting that way? I just like, I, like, that's why I say I feel like someone else takes over my body. Yep.

Because I get out of it. And then I'm just like. why was I, what was I so worried about? Like, or why was I acting? Like, I'm, I'm disappointed in the way that I was acting. Sure. And then it ends up getting worse because of how disappointed I am in myself. I'll end up not saying sorry.

I'll end up not talking to the person. I'll end up, like, pushing myself further back because I feel bad about how I was acting. And then it's like, oh, it's been a day. It's been two days. Now it's too, it's been too long for me to even like out. And then like with like the depression kind of is linked in with that like it's a very like when I start feeling that way, especially if it's over an elongated period of time, it's like it just adds and adds and adds. And then like with the with the imposter stuff, I feel like that's it's probably I'm sure it's all connected, but it's a little bit less related because for me like I have hundreds of thousands of people that follow me on all my platforms. Right. And I am just a dude that lost weight. And so it's, a lot of people will message me and think that I can like solve all their problems.

And they, they think that I am like, I just struggle with being like, I've said it so many times when it comes to like the weight that I've lost and like what I've been able to do. Like I'm not special in any way. Like I didn't, I don't have something special about me that made it so, hey, I can like, I was able to do this and no one else can. And you should definitely reach out to me because I have all the answers. It's like, dude, I was just a normal guy. I was just a normal guy that was working minimum wage jobs that was like, like I said, that's why I say like I'm so thankful for what I do now. Because my future then was not very bright, like when I look back at it. And so that kind of plays into it.

And I think like another thing that I kind of struggle with and I think it's related to that is I can talk forever. So I struggle with not feeling like I'm very smart. So growing up, I was in special ed my whole life. And so, like, I remember I went to college and I went for like one year and I was so bad. Like I was a music major and one of the classes I took, they were like, you have to know how to read music to be in this class. I don't know how to read music. And so I was just like, okay, well, I guess I'll drop this one. And so like that's another thing that has like followed me my whole life is feeling like I'm dumb.

And so I think that goes into why, like, I have the imposter syndrome because I'm like, why are people following me? I'm not smart enough to help anyone kind of thing. Like, that's, again, those are the thoughts I have when I'm that person that's, like, anxious and stuff. But when I step back, I'm like, well, regardless of what, what, how many, how many, like, how many diplomas I might have or whatever, like, I've still been able to help this many people regardless of that.

Like, I know that. But again, like, when I'm in that mode, it doesn't matter. Okay. So. Okay. So, you know, sometimes I'm going to say beautiful to some things, but those things aren't beautiful. I think it's just, I'm, first of all, John, I'm really excited for this conversation. I think your, you know, your ability to map out what your internal experiences, I think is, like, amazing.

And I think this is unfortunately one of the consequences of, you know, being in your head a lot and suffering a lot, right? And you can see that you're not actually in control. And you just gave me so much that can I just try to collect my thoughts and think about a plan of attack for how to approach this stuff? Yeah. Okay. So I've got a couple of thoughts. Okay. So the first thing, I'm going to just toss out maybe a map.

And then we can decide, you know, which direction you want to go. Okay. So there are some things in your mind and we can explore the origins of those things. And then the second thing that we can do is we can explore how those things manifest and function in the present. And what I mean by that is that like you become another person, right? So we can think about how does that work in the mind where you become another person? And so then that sort of begs this like interesting philosophical question of like, who are you if you become another person? And then like what is the relationship between not just your body and your mind, but you and your body and your mind?

So we can think about where that other person comes from. We can think about how that other person takes control. And then we can also think about what you do in response to that other person taking control, which isn't of itself a third person. Right? There's the one who panics and loses confidence. And then there's the you who beats yourself up for not doing good enough. And the crazy thing is that's still not you. That's just another person who.

pops up. And then we can also think through a lot of the consequences of all of that stuff. So principles like, you know, why is it that we're meanest to the people closest to us and that actually like the people that we love and care about the most are the ones that we, you know, sort of show our ugliest side to. Yeah. And then the last thing that we can kind of touch on is something about the imposter syndrome, which is just that, you know, all these people approach you and you say, I'm just a dude who lost weight. I'm not special in any way. And we can talk a little bit about that.

And John, I think, oddly enough, that's the reason that they approach you in summary. I think because you do, you're so authentic that people reach out to you for help because you're an ordinary guy. And so if an ordinary guy can do it, they can do it too. But if you were superhuman, then it doesn't apply, right?

like it just doesn't apply. And so oddly enough, I think that's actually where your value really is. You kind of say, I'm nothing special. And I think absolutely you're nothing special. And that's what makes you priceless. Right? Because you've done it. And you were working minimum wage jobs.

And you did do one year of college. And you weren't something like amazing and special. And that in and of itself is what's so fucking amazing about you. And that's why people reach out to you. So in a weird way, I'd say that there's some. kind of embracing, which I think you know how to do. There's some embracing of who you are, which is absolutely amazing and at the same time, nothing special, that those contrary ideas in your mind can be held together.

And then the last thing that I just really appreciated is that, you know, you do actually share some stories about like your sister and stuff like that. And I think that kind of stuff really helps because it kind of gives us like not just abstract thinking, but like this is actually the sequence of events. And then we can really understand what's going on inside you. Um, so any thoughts or responses to that? Any direction? No, I mean, I, I, I think that everything that you just said, I, I'm excited to talk about. And I, I think like, just as someone that's watched a lot of, of your content and stuff, like I do, I do fully acknowledge and I'm sure that some of this, a lot of the stuff that happened in my past,

which I've had an interesting childhood definitely affects me now. Sure. I know that for a fact. I just don't know how and to what extent, right? Like I'm just not totally sure of how, right? So let's dig in, man. So tell me about your, as you put an interesting past. Yeah.

So growing up, my mom was, my mom and dad were both drug addicts. And so we actually were taken away. When I say we, I have a lot of siblings. like seven or eight, but most of them are half and some of them I never met because like one of them, his name's Nick, he was given up as he was born and I've never met him, right? And so like a lot of my siblings are like half siblings, but growing up like who I was with most in my full siblings are my brother, John and my sister Evelyn. Okay. So it was us three that grew up with my mom and kind of my dad a little bit. But when I was really young and when I say young, I was like

three or four, I think. We were taken away from them from CPS, child protective services, and because they were drug addicts. And we were put into this place is called Polinsky here in San Diego. It's just like a foster care place. And then luckily, seriously, luckily, our uncle took us in, which is very strange because we're not very close with them. Because if he didn't take us in, we would have either one been shipped off to other foster homes and maybe not kept together, or we would have been shipped off to my grandmother who lives in Pennsylvania, so on the East Coast. And from what I understand what my mom is told is, like, if that happened, we would have been there until my sister turned 18. Like it would have been, there was no chance we could have went back with my mom.

So it's kind of a happy ending, though, because after about a year, we actually were put back with my mom, which does not happen very often with CPS. because my mom actually, she went to a drug rehabilitation center. It was a church and they have like a drug rehabilitation like thing that they do. It was called Calder Ranch. And she was able to get clean. And she's been clean ever since then. So like, you know, and so it was, it is really cool. But yeah.

And so do you do you know what your mom, if you don't mind me asking, you don't have to answer this out of, you know, respect for her privacy? But do you happen to know what substances she was using? Yeah. It was like meth for the most part. Okay. Do you know if she was using while she was pregnant with you? I honestly, I want to be surprised that I don't think I've ever even asked. I think it's like one of those things I was like, I don't really want to know if I want to know this. Okay, sure.

And if I ask something that's out of line, just let me know. Okay, John? I will, but I highly doubt there will be anything. I'm very open about all this stuff. But yes, I'll let you know. So we ended up getting put back with her. but growing up like then we were pretty much just with her and my dad was like kind of around but then after about a few years we ended up moving away from him it's an interesting family dynamic that we can go into but like we don't not like my dad we're actually I'm actually very close oh I'm close

with him and his now basically wife and their whole family like we're a big mixed family now but at the time growing up we were just very poor I guess you could call it like we just didn't have much money. Like my mom was working, you know, as like many, many, many hours. And so therefore, we just didn't have, like, we were, we were on government housing. So it's called Section 8 here in California. And so we were on that. And just like money was not something we had very much of. And so kind of growing up. Yeah, yeah, it was, yeah, it was, we had some, some tough times. We were really lucky that some of the local churches around us would kind of like take care of us around like certain holidays like we had we had this place called sunshine haven that every like Christmas they would come like a day before

Christmas Christmas Eve for like two days and they would just drop off presents because like they would have people like donate them and then they'd go to like families and need I remember this is a random but like one year they they did they gave my mom a present and it was underwear but they were like comically large And I just remember we all it was so funny like there were no joke like this big. And it was but so yeah like growing up and then and then you know like I that's when I started gaining weight. Because like that was a huge part of like of my like childhood was when I was about seven years old. And I remember like being frustrated because my family would eat the same foods as me but none of them were getting as big as I was like because I was I was like from seven years. old up until I was 20, I just consistently gained. And it was like, it started like every year,

it was becoming more and more of an issue for me. And, and then in second grade was when I actually ended up being put in special ed or RSP resource specialist program. And then from from there on out, like I just, I just remember like my mom tells this story, but like there would be times where I would come home from school and I would just be crying, like because I'd be trying to do the homework and like we're doing multiplication and like everyone just understands it and I'm like what is this like I had no idea what was going on and I just I don't know why I remember that like from that moment I've always felt like I'm not good enough and like I there's something wrong with me kind of thing but I will say like all in all with all of that stuff that has happened like

that's why I'm so thankful of where I am now because like if we if we were to talk about where you should be like I should not be where I am now at least in my mind um with like the background that I have and so that's why I'm so like thankful and I I try my best to um foster I guess my community or foster what I have as best as I can um because I know that I just I feel like I know where I would be if I didn't have it. Okay. John, your story is incredibly rich, man. Seriously.

There's so many different. Well, it's more poor than it is rich, but I'm sorry. Yeah. Fair point. No, but I mean, a good one, to be honest. It's not stupid. It's actually brilliant. But, you know, there's just, there's so much here.

And this is going to be tough, my dude. I think, I think, I already sort of see, a road forward for you, but I think it's going to be a little bit challenging. And I just want to sketch this out a little bit. Okay. So when you say I shouldn't be where I am today, that implies so much gratitude. Right? And you kind of say, I'm lucky.

Like, you talk about your uncle and stuff like that. And so the tricky thing there is that, like, being grateful for where you are and feeling lucky is, like, that's a good thing, right? we respect people for that. We prioritize people for that. But there's actually like a tricky underbelly, which maybe exists here. And I suspect maybe it does. And I think this manifests in some other ways, which is that, you know, if you don't deserve to be, I mean, if you shouldn't be where you are today, then in a sense, you don't deserve it. Right.

And if we if we really tunnel down now, this is where things get really. subtle because if you don't deserve it, that sort of implies a certain value about you as a human being. Whereas there's a part of me that tells you actually, like that wants to say to you, John, you absolutely deserve everything that you have, man. In fact, you deserve so much more than you have. That sure, you can be lucky and grateful, but actually at the end of the day, if you look at what you deserve and what you're worth, it's way more than what you have. Does that make sense? Yeah. Right. And it's hard because somewhere along the way, like, you started to consider yourself lucky that you got to live with your mom. And like, it's wonderful that you have that gratitude. But at the end of the day, that's not lucky, bro. Your life is filled with bad beats.

Right. And really what you deserve is like way more. Like you don't, you don't deserve. Like, it's, like, it's. wonderful that you're grateful, but like you've got to be really careful because there's something really subtle here, which is that underneath the positivity is this underlying belief that if you're lucky, then you didn't deserve it. And if we kind of go back to the heart of the imposter syndrome, I think that has to do with like this fundamental idea that like you don't deserve this, right? And if we really, it gets tricky. So we'll dig into that a little bit more. Does that makes sense? No, yeah. I mean, I think that, yeah, 100%, I think that there's, it's kind of like, I mean, in layman's terms is what my mind is thinking is like too much of a good thing. Like,

there's such thing as that, right? Being grateful sometimes can be like, you turn it into being like, I don't deserve, which I don't think that that in the end is going to be a net positive. If that's, because that's, that is kind of where my mind ends up going when I go down that road. Yeah. Right. So, and. And, and. And that's, that's, and I think it manifests in kind of weird ways. Like, I think that, um, what I'm not hearing a whole lot of you. So it's funny, because people who come on stream, either I hear too much anger from them or I hear not enough. And, and I think there's something about retreating and, and I'm getting the vibe of anger that is manifesting in different ways. Like,

it's like anger, you know, there's a, there's a lot of injustice in your story, actually. And I think sometimes we kind of look at ourselves and we say like what's the point of like bitching about injustice and how unlucky we are and and that sort of makes sense because I think a lot of times that too can be too much of a bad thing and then it kind of you know we're just complaining all the time and so I think you've learned how to be incredibly positive how to pick yourself up by your bootstraps how to you know I think it's clear that you've gone from obese to beast and the interesting thing is that that that journey actually, I get the sense that you've pushed a part of yourself off to the side.

And then you have this little boy in the basement, like this seven-year-old fat kid who doesn't know how to do multiplication. And then every once in a while, like something happens and the fat kid comes out of the basement and that's how you feel, right? Like even I would venture when you, when that other person takes you over, you're not even an adult. I mean, yeah, I feel like I'm being a child. Because you are being a child. Yeah, yeah, because you are. And that's not an un... And this is the really tricky thing, John Boy, dude, this is going to be tough, bro.

Because what I would love to help you do is to not discount the fact that you are behaving like a child because you are, because that's what happens. And we'll talk about the mechanism of what's happening in your mind. But for you to acknowledge that you are behaving like a child and that you deserve to do. do so. Right? Because when you, when you beat up that seven-year-old kid, what does he do? He goes, eats a plate of super nachos. Yeah. And then, you know, goes into the basement and you push him in. And then like he comes out again and he's gained five pounds.

And then over time, despite all of your successes, you've taken all of your negativity. And you've kind of like condensed it into this one thing that pops out of the surface every now and then. And so it's kind of like, I don't doubt that you've grown and it's clear that, you know, I mean, you've grown immensely, John. And I think this is the real challenge is that, you know, I think you've picked a lot of the low-hanging fruit. So your growth now, the more pure you become, the more subtle the growth that you have to do. And actually, the harder it becomes. Right. If I have like a really dirty table, I can just take one swipe of a cloth and do a lot of cleaning. But if I only have one speck of dust left, I really have to look really, really hard. And I'm laying the foundation

for a couple of principles that I'll explain later about mind-body stuff. But any thoughts about that? No, I mean, I think it all makes sense. It's interesting, like the thing that kind of stuck out to me, like the one thing that when you said it, I was like, oh, interesting. I would have never thought that was like, you were acting like a, and you deserve to do that. In my mind, it just, it's this feeling of no, like, don't act like that. You need to, like, I beat myself up, right? Like, when I'm acting that way. And then that's what it turns into this cycle that I was explaining.

And then I don't reach out to the person. And then it's like, you know, so I thought that that was interesting. Yeah. So let's talk about that for a second, right? Because I said that's actually a third person. There's John. There's the seven-year-old fat kid. And then there's the kid who beats up the seven-year-old fat kid.

Your first step forward. and this is the problem that a lot of people run into is they think my problem is the seven-year-old, does it hurt your feelings when I say seven-year-old fat kid? Not at all. Is that insensitive? Okay. No, it's fine. So, and I think the problem is that everyone looks and they say, oh, the problem is that the seven-year-old fat kid keeps out coming out of the basement.

And they say, that's the part of me that I want to change. And the reason that they stay stuck is because that's not actually what you need to change. You need to change before that. you need to change the bully that lives within you. And once you change the bully, then you'll be able to deal with the fat kid. But the real problem is like, you know, the fat kid's a little bit of a distraction. And so now the next question is, is, you know, where did you learn how to judge yourself that way? Like, like, it's this judgment, I think, that we actually need to start.

And so can you tell me, you know, did other people judge you growing up? like let's talk talk to me about judgment because you're so good at telling me stories like tell me stories bro um that's a good question like where did i learn about judgment i think like just growing up and feeling like i was you know feeling like i was poor and so like always trying to prove to people that i was maybe worth like being like a friend of theirs you know like uh i remember in in junior high i remember like there was this group of friends, because like growing up I was really big into church.

And there was this group of friends that I had in junior high that I was like, I knew I should not be hanging out with these kids. Like I knew as far as far as what my morals were. Like they were like people that were like already smoking a lot of pot.

They're already like talking about drugs all the time. Like all this stuff that I personally like was not into and I didn't want to get into it. But they were cool. Like they were the cool kids in school. And so the fact that they wanted me to be a friend, I was like, okay, well, that that makes me cool then. And I just, I remember, like, there'd be a lot of times where I would just, like, one thing that I really, really did a lot in junior high and in high school. And I'm not sure if this is answering your question about this is just what came to my mind is I was very good at making fun of myself.

And so I hated, hated, hated if someone made fun of me. Like, I did not like that. So I was very lucky, okay, it was a double-edged sword. I was very lucky because I didn't have a lot of people make fun of me. But the reason was because I made fun of myself so much. And I've talked about this kind of before. So I would put on this mask of I'm the funny fat guy. Like this is what I would call me.

I'm the funny fat guy. I have a tattoo on my calf of a cupcake because my name in high school was cupcake. Like everyone called me that. And like the reason I got that nickname was because there was a group of people that were trying to be mean to me. and make fun of me and call me Cupcake because I was fat. And so I was like, I like, I like, I like, when I graduated, they said John David Cupcake Glod. Like, it was like everyone knew me as Cupcake in my high school, right? And so I had this, like, mask on of I'm the funny fat guy.

Like, no one would make fun of me because I was always doing it all the time. And so it was, like, the reason I say it was the double ed sword was because, yes, no one made fun of me. But I also felt like I was garbage. Like, I felt like, because of how much I would make fun of my sense. and how much I was a joke, I started to just believe you are a joke. Like, you're not worth anything. Like, you're worthless, right? That's something that I, like, when I'm in that mode that I was telling you about,

like, that's the first thing that comes into my mind is you're worthless. Like, it just pops up. And like, I'll be, like, I say when I say that I, um, the people that are closest to me get the most of it, like, I'll be texting my girlfriend and all of a sudden it's just, I'm worthless. I'm a piece of crap. I'm garbage. And it's like, and I'm like, what?

It doesn't make any sense looking back. But in the moment, it's like, why doesn't it make any sense looking back? Because, like, the John that we see now, I guess you said there's like three different people, right? The John looking back is like, you are, like, you've done so much. Like, you've, you've been through so many things and you've been able to get through them and you've been able to help so many people out. Like, that's obviously not true. But it's like when I'm in that mode, nothing anyone says. Like any, no matter how much I care about you, it doesn't matter.

Like, it just, like, I've, I've seen other people explain it this way. Like, I feel numb. It's like, there's just, it doesn't matter what anyone says. I am, this is what I am. And it's the truth. And then it might be, I wake up the next morning and I look back and I'm like, okay, that's definitely not true. Or sometimes it'll happen during the day.

And I, all of a sudden kind of, like, I don't know what starts happening, but it's like I can start to see, I get so hyper focused on these thoughts. And then I start to be able to not be so focused on them and think about other things. And then I'm like, okay, like, that's not true. Yeah, I don't know if that answered your question. Answers so much, but I have so many more. So I'm going to say something a little bit provocative, but I think it's important to tease apart what you're saying. Okay.

So when you say looking back, it's just not true. I actually disagree with that. I think looking at the now, it's not true. But when you look into your past, you know, 14-year-old cupcake, it was absolutely true. Right? So this is the first thing you've got to understand, John. Some of the things in our mind, and maybe I need to just take a step back and explain some concepts like teach. But some of the things in our mind, so if we think about like PTSD, for example, okay? So people have flashbacks.

So like what happens in a flashback? So let's say that I'm, you know, I'm in a war. And then like I experience like a combat situation where like one of my friends gets, you know, blown up by like a missile. Like, you know, I use a drastic example because I'm thinking about a particular person who exemplify this. And then what happens is like when I'm walking down the street, if there's a loud bang, what happens in my mind? so my mind transports me to that point in the past right

and then like I have this thing called a flashback where like I lose sight of where I am I lose sight of who I am I can be 70 years old and have been in the Vietnam War when I was 25 and when I hear a bang I get transported to I become that 25 year old self

I don't become a grandfather who you know has lived so much. I'm like a scared kid in like the jungles of Vietnam where my friend just died in front of my eyes. That's what I've become. And so if we if we stop and think about that, like hold on a second. Like that's weird. Right. So the first thing that we've got to acknowledge is that our mind and our brain has the capacity to transport us into the past. And this is the problem is that I think part of the reason you're stuck is because you try to tell yourself that you're not But you feel like you are worthless.

And so there's like this conflict where you're like fighting against yourself. When you fight against yourself, you're not going to win. Right? It's kind of weird. So I think in a bizarre way, like what you need to do is like actually accept that you were worthless. And this is this is that your road forward is like not to say you weren't worthless because that's how you felt. It's that you were worthless and that's okay. right like if I think about I was just talking to

to someone about this recently but you know if we think about what you need to do for yourself John it's like when you call yourself worthless like that's you judging yourself and then there's even like a fourth reaction of let me know if I lose you here which is that you beat yourself

up for calling yourself worthless so it doesn't matter how far you go down the road it's always you beating yourself up even though it is cloaked in positivity. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so, so like, you know, there's a part of me that says, like, you know, if I had to transport back in time to cupcake, my message to cupcake is not, you know, you're a beautiful person and, and like, there's nothing wrong with you or anything like that. That's actually not my message to him because I don't think that that's a

fair message. My message to him is, hey, man, you got like, I know you're struggling right now. I know you're overweight. I know a lot of people make fun of you and you make fun of yourself, but I don't think, I don't agree with them. I know you feel that way, but you won't be this way forever. And that if you work at it, you can grow and you can change. But right now, I have no doubt that you feel absolutely worthless because you don't get good grades. Kids make fun of you. You make fun of yourself and you're overweight. So I see why you feel worthless because you look around and you don't see any value. I know it's in there. You've just got to work to go from obese to beast. Right. And even then, like, I think that your answer is actually in your name because you don't say beast always.

You are not always, right? And so it's actually beautiful because I think what resonates John with like other people and what makes you not an imposter is that in your name, you own the obesity. You own it. But when you start beating yourself up and you start feeling that way, it's like beast back to obese in your mind. But like that's okay. You've got to own like you're, you're the spectrum, right? You've got to balance like the confidence that you have. It's not about like one winning over the other. It's like balancing both of those things together. Does that make sense? Yeah. what are you hearing like

I can't like if I if I I have to I guess what I'm hearing is like you have to live in that moment sometimes like you can't like I'm beating myself up for like I'm telling myself I'm worthless so that's in turn obviously that's beating myself up but then I am also beating myself up after the fact because I am saying why would you say that that's not true so now I'm like beating myself that's stupid and you're being stupid and you're being

child-age being there. There it is, right? So it's the same thing. It's just layers and layers and layers and layers of the same complex, which is that John, you're not good enough. Even when you are trying to be positive towards yourself, that's actually negative. Does that make sense?

You're like, you've accomplished so much. Why are you so dumb that you can't see it? Yeah. You're still calling yourself dumb. It's the same fucking thing. It's like, you know, and so, so that's what needs to change. And the way that we start changing that is to, is to think a little bit about like, you know, to say that, okay, I sometimes I feel worthless.

Like, that's cool, right? Just because I feel that way and because even, I know this sounds crazy, even if I am that way right now, it doesn't have to be that way forever. because that's a statement you can get behind. Right? If you find yourself retreating from your friends and your family and girlfriend and whatnot, you can say, okay, sometimes I've got to retreat because that's who I am. You know, I've grown in a lot of ways. I haven't quite grown in this. And just because you haven't learned it yet, John, ballpark of how old you are?

I'm about to be 28 in a few days. Okay, cool. So like you just think about that, right? Like think about where you were when you were 18. Where you were five years ago. You've accomplished so much in the last five to ten years. And you've got at least 40 good years ahead of you. And so you may feel worthless now and you may beat yourself up,

but you can learn how to not beat yourself up over the next decade. It's totally cool to beat yourself up. Give yourself some time. give yourself some space, you know, and like you've made one transformation in your body, and for the next decade of your life,

you're going to focus on a transformation of mind. And you have to accept that you're overweight, like, right? But you have to start with the acceptance that you are overweight. And so I think you can also start with the acceptance that mentally, like, you do things to yourself, which are not ideal,

but that's actually okay. Yeah. Right? because you've got you've got the beast working with you. Yeah. I think like just for me to help me kind of process this, the way I, like what I'm hearing and like what what I'm hearing is, so I get a lot of people that will ask me, I want to lose weight and I want to like I want to lose 50 pounds in a month or whatever.

And I always have to say it takes time. Like it's not going to happen overnight. And so I have internal, like I believe that, right? But I think with the stuff that we're talking about, I get frustrated that I, I'm like, that person that's asking me the question to you is like, fix me right now. I would like to have everything figured out. And I'm like, when they're asking me, I'm like, yo, that's not going to, it just doesn't work like that. It's going to take a long time. And I am, it's funny because I'm like being that person to you almost. Sure. It's like, how can I fix this right now? And you're just like,

it's going to take a while, man. So it's interesting to hear. Yeah. So I think it's interesting that that's what you took away. And I think that actually demonstrates to me that you understand it already. Right? So I think that what you need to do is like, just like you encourage those other people to give themselves time and be patient with themselves, give yourself time and be patient with this. Yeah, that's, that's, that's very well said, John. Let me just think.

Any questions? Not really. I mean, I'm sure I'll have some stuff when we're towards the end, but right now I'm kind of enjoying kind of working through it. Okay. Yeah. So let me just think for a second about where to go from here. Okay. So we can do a couple of things. Either we can dig further. Let me just teach you a couple of things, actually, okay? And then you tell me what you're interested in. So let's talk about the mind-body connection for a minute. So the first thing is that, you know, I think there's a part of you that feels stupid, right? So like, the part that couldn't do multiplication, the part that couldn't read music. And maybe this makes you feel like an imposter. So let me just start by saying, John, I think that we have this idea that some people are smart and some people are stupid. But what I really like from Eastern medicine is that they say that they're different kinds of minds, right?

Just like they're different colors of hair. They're like different kinds of minds. And some minds aren't great at like book smarts. and some minds are not designed to sit in a classroom for like eight hours a day and like look at a textbook. It doesn't mean that they're stupid. It just means that your mind is different. And I think that like, so one of my teachers explained this to me, like there are some people who are hunters and some people who are farmers. And the farmer mind like likes to wake up at the same time every day, likes to sit in their chair, read their book, like routine.

Like everything's the same. like I don't like disruptions. I can just, I love multiplication. I love reading music. I love anything on a page that I can read and no one bothers me. And then there are hunters. And hunters are like, I'm not going to sit around and like sow seeds every day. I want to be out in the wilderness. I want to be looking around. I want to absorb a lot of stimuli. I want to integrate a lot of stimuli. I want to make a lot of decisions with a lot of uncertainty. Like which way do I go? Is this dangerous? Is this not dangerous? It's just different kinds of minds. And I don't know. I mean, do either of those mindsets resonate with you? I mean, the Hunter one definitely is where it's interesting because there's like parts of each, I guess. So for me, like routine is like, it's very important to me. Like I, when I am thrown off of my routine, that is definitely like, I've noticed that's a trigger of my anxiety. Like it definitely can make me anxious. But at the same time, like I, when I was a kid, I was like diagnosed with ADD and like I took

for a little bit. And so I'm definitely very like, I like to do things, though. Like, I like to, like, I can't just do one thing forever. Like, I'm sure you've noticed, like, I'm always fidgeting. I'm always messing with something. It's just how I am. Yep. And so it's interesting, but I would say I probably would lean more towards, like, the hunter

in that explanation, I guess. Yeah. So it's not, they're not mutually exclusive, first of all. And there actually are three, not two, so it's like a three-dimensional thing. But I think, you know, just one thing that I would encourage you to just kind of potentially re-conceptualize your upbringing is that like, and I wouldn't quite go as far as to say that you weren't book smart. I think you just, you probably needed a more dynamic learning environment or, frankly, just more like one-on-one attention.

So there's an interesting kind of statistic. It's a little bit, I'm extrapolating a little bit. But basically what we find is that kids who are the less attention an individual child has, the more likely they are to be diagnosed with ADHD. So growing up, it sounds like you were in a single parent household with two siblings. And so what I find, frankly, as a clinician, is that there are some kids who are highly, highly dynamic and actually incredibly smart. and whether they go down the path of special needs and ADHD or not has nothing to do with their intellect. It has everything to do with the amount of individual attention that they can get.

And if you can have, because actually what happens with really smart kids is they get bored easily in class, right? And then they start to fidget. Whereas if you have someone who can engage them in kind of a dynamic way, the kid is going to be like awesome. Like they're going to be fantastic. You'll let their brilliance like kind of to flourish. They just need a different kind of soil. And what I'm hearing from you is that probably the most likely thing is that you weren't given the right kind of soil that you needed to grow. And now I think part of the reason that you're so successful is because you figured out, oh, like minimum wage job is not going to be, I'm not the guy who gets like minimum wage job and then becomes a manager and then

becomes a VP and that like you'd fucking F that shit, right? It's like a little bit of YouTube video, a little bit of physical activity. I'm going to cook this today. I'm going to take these pictures for Instagram. I'm going to answer some questions. You're like a hunter. You're like out there and you're like, oh, there's a track over here. What is this? I smell something over here. Oh, there's some like, you know, poop over there. Like you're you're kind of integrating a bunch of information. I think that's just the fertile soil that you need. And I think for a lot of people out there, like this is important to remember is that like if you got diagnosed and you felt dumb, it's not so much that you are dumb or that you're mentally ill.

It's just that like there's a different kind of environment that that child needs to thrive. Any thoughts about that? No, I mean, I agree and I think that, I mean, there were things that my, like the teachers would try and do when I was in school. Like there was, I also have like dysgraphia. So like my handwriting is absolutely so bad. So they would like try it sucks because my hand writing is really bad, but I'm also unbelievably slow at typing. Like I type like 20 to 30 words a minute. Like it's really bad.

But they ended up giving me this like little, it was before like computers and laptops were like people had them. So it was this little like machine that they had that they would give me so I could type instead of try and write. And I remember like I knew that they were trying to give me this thing to help. But I remember it felt like it made things harder for me. And then I was like even this help that they're trying to give me is making me feel worse. right? Yep. And I just, I remember feeling like, like, I mean, this is when I was like young. I was in, I was in like elementary school at this time. And, and then there were like, I remember there were things where they would have like a person come in and grab me. I'm not sure if this was to do with my learning disability, if it was like home stuff because of the drugs. But they would like bring me into a room where it was just me and this person. And it was like during math class, like math class when I was really young. And they would bring me in there and then we would do different times. And then we would do different times. types of math. So we would like work with blocks or work with like, you know what I mean. Like and it would be one on one instead of just like the the class. I remember that. But I do

remember at that whole little typing thing and feeling like this is supposed to help and it's not helping made me feel like, well, you're just kind of a lost cause when I was like, you know, in like super, super young. And I remember that being like tough for me. Yeah. So let's think about that for a second, John. Once again, wonderful. Dude, the way your mind forms connections is really amazing and you're just a fantastic storyteller. So let me ask you something, John. Think about the way that you felt when they gave you that typing machine and it like still didn't help and how you feel when you have a panic attack. Oh, it's it's exactly the same, man.

Like it's it's so much the same that I remember I recently was like telling people I was in my discord and I was like, hey, you know, I'm trying to work. on my typing and I like I shared out like where I'm at and it was like 30 minute it made me like it made me cry and I'm like tearing up thinking about it because people started like sharing it's so silly people started sharing their how fast they were and they were like how are you so slow that's ridiculous and I just remember I just felt like the kid again and I just shrunk back and I was just like I don't and it made me because I like to share a lot but then at the same time like sometimes when I share stuff, people will say that stuff. And I know that they weren't trying to mean, of course they're not.

But it made me feel so small. And it was like, I am that I am the same. Like nothing has changed. Like it makes me feel like nothing has changed. And I'm still that person. And I just remember like, honestly, like you were saying there was anger. I was mad. Like I was mad at those people.

And I wanted to like ban them or I wanted to like reply. And I was kind of saucy a little bit. But like I wanted to be like, you don't know what I'm dealing with. you don't understand how hard this is for me, but I was just like, I'm not going to do that. Like, it's, it's not, like, I tried to take a step back and be like,

okay, let's think rationally here. They're not trying to be mean to you. Like, you are, this is your perception of the situation. But I just remember, like, that little thing, man, like, it really mess with me. It really,

it mess with, it just made, it made me feel stupid, is the, is like the most, is the easiest way to kind of explain it. Yeah, it's,

once again a beautiful insight into a, you know, a painful thing, John. Because I think the takeaway there is like, once again, what you're feeling, John, is not you. It's an echo, right? That hurt you carry with you because it's never been processed. And if you want to be free of it, you have to like process it. So let me ask you this. How did you feel towards the people who brought you the typing machine? I think initially I felt special because it was like, wow, this is like, again, it was before there was a lot of stuff like that out there.

So I was like, oh, I have this cool thing. But then it started to feel almost like a scarlet letter because everyone else is writing and I have this machine. But then I felt like, okay, my teachers now are probably going to think, okay, he's going to do better. But I was so unbelievably slow at it that it was like this machine that it gave me to help is making me. me, I feel like it's making me feel worse. So at the start, it felt nice because I felt special. But then it felt I just started to feel worse and worse and worse because, and then it was like, I wanted to prove to these people that I like, I should have this, but I just, and so

it just became like this kind of thing of shame that I had that eventually I just stopped using it because I was like, well, this isn't helping me at all. Okay. How many other people when they graduated had a nickname read out? No one. there's your scarlet letter. So like I was saying, you know,

just to recap, you had sort of said that you felt like, I'd asked you about the, I'd asked you about, you know, what it felt like to have the, the typewriter or whatever.

And then you kind of felt like they labeled you with something different. Yeah. And you had a scarlet letter. And then I'd asked the question for people who missed it. You know, how many people had, a nickname when they graduated.

And then you'd said none. And I think that's just an example of you solidifying your isolation from the rest of the world, right? And you kind of owning that part. But at the end of the day, you're still isolating yourself. And I think that part of, you know, I'd imagine that when you feel worthless, when you have that kind of panic attack, you also feel incredibly, incredibly isolated. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

and that no one understands you. Mm-hmm. Um, can you tell me a little bit about those feelings or, or explain those or just share with us what it feels like when you have these panic attacks? Yeah, I can try. Um, it feels,

like I said, like there's this numbness where it's like, no matter what anyone says to me, no matter any, it just doesn't matter. Like I can, like I said, I struggle.

with being still and like not you know like my ADD but like when I'm in this mode I can be dead still staring at a wall for an hour not even thinking about it like I don't it's this crazy feeling of like I just feel like nothing matters like nothing matters no nothing anyone says matters and um I just start I'll end up I guess the I've heard the word catastrophizing so like I feel like I'll end up trying to find the worst things, things that can make me feel the worst, and then I focus on those things. And so like I'm intentionally being, I'll intentionally be really mean to myself. And this is where I say like I'm mean to other people because again, obviously if I'm close to someone and they know this is going on, they're trying to reach out and help. My girlfriend is a person that comes to mind. And I'm just like super dismissive. And I'm just like, I'm this. I'm worthless. I'm a piece of garbage.

like I'll say these things that are just so mean like that you know if someone were to say it to me I'd be like screw you man like what are you talking about but like I have no problem saying it to myself and but I would say like the thing that it's like the world kind of like I don't know if you had the um the new AirPods but like the new AirPods are noise cancelling you put them in and they make like this like is what it feels like that's how I feel like the world that's what I feel like happens to the world when I'm having those feelings I can almost like hear that sound and then the noise cancellation is there. But instead of noise cancellation, it's like world cancellation, where anything else that's going on doesn't matter. Like there could be bombs going off next door. And I'm like, I don't freaking care, you know. Yeah, John, honestly, it's bizarre. But this sounds to me like a, like when I've worked with people with PTSD and they have flashbacks, it sounds like a flashback. Right.

So I work with someone who's a teacher. And then something happened in school. and they like jumped under their desk. Right? And like they weren't in school anymore. Like the rest of the world disappears. And they're like trapped in their own mind. And that's honestly what it sounds like to me.

Like you become sort of trapped within your own mind. And it seems like a really dark place. Yeah. I mean, it can be in those. I mean, it certainly can be in those moments. Like that's why I say like I feel like I'm a different person. because it's like my mind changes as well. Yep.

There's only been, like those happen. I don't want to say they happen like super frequently. It'll be maybe once a month or something like that. I've only had one time where I genuinely felt like I was having a panic attack. Where I remember it was towards like the beginning of the beginning of quarantine. And I remember I had injured my back doing a workout. And so I was very, like, immobile at the time. And I know for me, working out is a, is a huge form of stress release for me.

Like, I've noticed that for sure. And so I was dealing with a back injury. And I remember I was in the shower. And then I remember thinking, wow, I'm like, it's like really hard to breathe right now. Like I'm like, something's kind of going on. Like my head feels kind of weird. And I remember I, I ended up getting out of the shower. and I got into my bed.

I didn't even dry myself off because I was like, I feel like really weird. And then I got into my bed. And then I remember I was like, oh, I think I might, I think I'm going to throw up. So then I went back, I went back into the bathroom and laid by the toilet. And I remember just like I felt like I was going to die. Like it really felt like I could, I could, the reason I brought up it was the beginning of quarantine was because I was like, I was like super stressed out about coronavirus. I was like, what's going?

I could do. Am I? Like every day I. felt like I think I have it. I think I have it. And I would be stressed out about it. So then I was like, I was like checking. I was like doing the whole thing where I'd like hold my breath and like, oh, can I still breathe? And then I was like, I was super, super worried about that. And then I started like feeling like I could feel like my heartbeat in my every everything. Like I just felt like my whole heart was beat. And I genuinely was like, I think I'm, I think I'm going to die. Like I was, I was seriously thought I was going to die. And I remember I ended up like I was just, I just, I just, I just. laid in my bathroom for a while and then I finally started to like like I said like the the noise cancellation kind of started to lift and I could like stand up but it was like that's only happened to

me one time but it was like the scariest thing I think I've ever I've ever been through um but those like other moments that I've talked about frequently they happen you know like pretty frequently I guess like once a month once every few weeks yeah so John thank you for sharing that just a couple of thought. So the first is that it sounds like it was quite profound and powerful of an experience. Yeah. And yet my preference would be to focus on the other ones because those happen more frequently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just came to my mind. No, no, no. I'm glad you shared it. The other thing that I would tell you is that really does sound like a panic attack. So nothing, nothing you have said so far has made me think you need to potentially an evaluation or treatment for an actual.

illness. But I would say to you at this point that, you know, if that kind of thing continues to happen, you should absolutely go see a doctor about it. Yeah. Okay. So for people who don't know just a real quick reason to go see a doctor is that, so one of the hallmarks of panic attacks is a sense of what they call impending doom. So people like actually think that they're going to die.

And so it's a strange thing to ask someone, but sometimes I'll ask people, do you have a sense of impending doom? And if people have panicked, they're like, fuck yeah. that's it. That's what it is. Like it's a sense of impending like this is real and I'm going to die now. And that's what happens. And it's essentially a physiologic response. So like your your adrenaline is through the roof and things like that. And then all your danger circuitry lights up in your brain. And then like this is the part of your brain that like warns you about death. And the problem is that normally that part of your brain only activates when there is a pending death. Yeah. But what's happened is that our brain now lives in a society that we have not evolved to

live in. And so sometimes that circuit of our like, oh, shit, we're going to die circuit. That's the technical neuroscientific term. That circuit sometimes activates inappropriately because it doesn't have like tigers and stuff to worry about. So it activates in relation to like paying rent at the end of the month and other things like that. But if that continues, the reason that I'd really recommend that you get a

for it is because there are like treatments for that so that you don't have to continue feeling that way. What brings on the other episodes? Like the episodes that you say happen once a month where you feel really isolated. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. I mean, it's it's so many things. Like it can be so many things. I think it's like it was that that one moment I talked about with the keyboard, right?

With the typewriting. It's like moments where I might be like talking to. my my girlfriend and she might i i feel so bad that it's she has to deal with it so often but like she might say something like something little and then i just start to i so okay i mean i i feel bad that i'm sharing this but um she'll say something about like an ex or a guy was like being weird to her at the gym and that stuff like makes me feel like i guess i guess it is um jealousy which we've talked about and she's like, you know, I'm jealous too, so it makes me feel a little bit better about it.

But it's like, and then I start to feel this. Yeah, yeah. So like, and so I start to feel like, okay, like someone's going to like be better and then that she's not like to like them more. And then I start to feel this way. And then I start treating her poorly, you know what I mean? Not like, I'm not being mean to her, but I'm just super shut off. And then I'm saying all of these thoughts.

that I was explaining. I'm like, oh, I'm worthless, all this stuff. And then it's, like, it's frustrating. Man, we've dealt with, we've dealt with this a few times. That's why I'm getting so he does. Like, it's frustrating because then, of course, she's like, well, I don't want to share a lot of stuff with you if it's going to make you feel this way. And then that makes me feel bad because she's right.

And I'm like, well, if you don't feel like you can share things with me, what good am I as a boyfriend? And then, like, that's happened a few times. And I mean, there's, honestly like it could be almost anything if I'm in this if I'm in the mood I guess or if I'm in a place where it might happen anything really can trigger it like it can it could genuinely be anything I remember I was streaming one night and a bunch of people came in and they spammed very not okay words um and I remember I was freaked out and then I started being like you idiot you should have made it so they couldn't have done that like you should have made it so they couldn't have done that like you should have it so they couldn't join the Discord and say all that stuff, like, this is your fault. And like I said, it can literally be anything that might make me feel kind of stupid, I guess, is the best way to explain it.

Okay. So that's useful. So let's talk about a couple of things, right? So one thing that sometimes happens when we feel bad about ourselves is we try to push people away. And it sounds like, you know, you try to push your girlfriend away. And you're like, if you feel that way, I don't even know why you're with me. I'm worthless piece of shit anyway. Just break up with me and be done.

with it. And it's like hearing I'm just like it it's it sucks to hear it but it's true like that's pretty much what I'll say like for lack of a better time pretty much almost exactly verbatim how I how I act. And it's like it's very embarrassing sharing this because this is definitely one of those things that I feel the most shame about. I can share other stuff like I can show my loose skin and like all this stuff that people were like, oh, like I've had people call, like, people will say, oh, your skin's disgusting. That's so nasty. And I'm like, whatever, I don't care. But like this thing, I'm just like, oh, it's just like, it's like definitely something I feel the, like, I don't want to say the most shame of, because I don't know, but like, I feel a lot of shame of. Yeah. So, John, how do you feel sharing this now?

Like, what are you feeling in this moment? This is, we can work through this, okay? I'm feeling, well, the immediate reaction is I'm feeling relief, um, because I, it makes me feel like I have to act less like I am like perfect, you know, because like I think something I struggle with is, I think, and this is like the whole imposter thing is like there are so many people that follow me and I want to be good for them. I want to be perfect. And like, I've explained, um, this before and like I feel like there's a lot of times where I wear a mask. And then a lot of times people don't even like the masks that I'm wearing. So the thing that I put on to make people like me, people don't even like anyways. So now I feel like I'm kind of like floating

in this like just like I'm just like what it can't win am I, you know? Yeah, I can't win. But I definitely I just like full transparency, I feel relieved, but also I feel worried that people are going to be off. That people are going to what? What the heck are going to feel just like, are you kidding me, man? Like, geez, you really have some stuff to work on. And that, that scares me because I think that that mask is still on to a certain extent. Like, I want to be the, I know what I'm doing and I can help everyone, you know. Yeah, so it sounds like you're afraid of judgment. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I think, interestingly enough, I think that that fear of judgment comes from you, right? Because you judge it. Yeah. And because if we really pay attention, John, we can see that other people can judge you and even judge you, partially, but it doesn't stick unless you judge yourself in the same way. Yeah.

Right? You feeling okay? Your voice has changed. Oh, no, no, no, I fully agree. Sorry. Okay. No, no, I'm just, it's not anything you're doing more. Yeah, no, I'm not choked up yet.

Okay. That's cool. I mean, we don't, it's, our goal is not to choke you up. I think this is oftentimes, it's a common misconception. Yeah. So let's just talk about pushing people away for, second because I want to try to help you understand that, or at least my understanding of it. So it's interesting, right? Because when you push your girlfriend away and she doesn't break up

with you, how do you feel? Like, what's wrong with you? Like, but it definitely, like, joking, that's kind of sometimes how I feel. Um, because I'm always thinking, like, what are you trying to get out of this? Like, why, why are you sticking around? I think I struggle with that just in general, like with other people reaching out and being like, oh, you should like watch this video or do this. Like I made this. You should, you should check it out.

I do with that a lot. And so I'm always kind of constantly on guard of feeling like people only want to be around me because they can get something out of that. But then on top of that, I do feel this sense of security and feeling like, okay, well, she obviously definitely does care. Right? because holy crap, if she didn't, why would she stick around this?

Yeah, so. So that's, I'm glad you can detect that because that's really an important thing. And I'm glad you see it and know that already. So, John, you're very insightful. I think it's, it's cool. Because I think we can cover a lot of ground. So I think, so if we, I want people to understand this too who are watching. So part of the reason that we push people away is so that we can feel secure when they don't leave.

right? So if I'm afraid of my value and I say, John, get the fuck out of here. And then despite all of my efforts to push you away, if you choose to stay, then I do feel secure. So it's really tricky because like the harder you push her and the worse you feel about herself, conversely, the more secure you're going to feel, even in sort of like a weird, convoluted, toxic way. because like it's like it's like you're challenging her to demonstrate her commitment to you. Yeah. And it can be very damaging for relationships. Don't get me wrong. But I think part of what we have to understand is that I think like John, most people in our mind just works like this.

Like it does what it needs to to get what it needs. And it sort of does the best that it can. And so in a bizarre way, like part of you pushing her away, is like a way of you actually reassuring yourself that the things that you believe about yourself may not be true. That makes it. That completely makes sense. Right?

And so the next question is, okay, so like what do we do about it? And I think the first step is just that to like notice that you're doing this. Right? To watch, because now you're saying that you don't feel like you're in control. and now we kind of get to an interesting kind of like yogic part, which is that you have two parts, you have three parts of being, you have a physical body, you have a mental body or a mind,

and then you have something like awareness or a soul. Like those terms are sort of interchangeably. What I mean by soul is you could talk about soul is something that persists beyond body and mind, after death and all that stuff. But the point here is that, even if you don't believe in any of that you don't need to, what you can still acknowledge is that there is some part of awareness or self

that exists outside of body and mind. Like if I can observe my hand, then I'm not my hand, right? Like this is not who I am. I am something outside of this. And then what we hear you say is that sometimes you are not your mind and that something takes control of your mind. But then that still means that you are not your mind.

And so the key thing in terms of like making progress here is to focus on that thing and to even watch your mind get taken over by this thing. And it's almost like you start a movie and like the movie's got to play through to the end. You know, you're like boarding a train and you don't get to go off halfway. The train only goes from point A to point B. And so once you start to feel that vulnerability, the first thing you should do is, just like watch it, run its course, that you're going to try to push her away and she's going to reassure you. And when she reassures you, there are going to be two things in your mind. One is like, what on earth are you thinking? I don't understand why you're trying to reassure me because I'm not

worth it. And just watch that. And then the second thing is like deep down, you're actually going to start to feel secure and comforted. Because you don't feel like you're worth something. and when she treats you with affection, in spite of you not deserving it, that can be really reassuring. So then that begs the question, and let me know if you have further questions, okay, because I'm kind of teaching mode now.

So then that begs the question, why on earth does this continue to happen if we feel secure? Like you'd think that if she makes you feel secure, shouldn't it go away? And the problem here is that even though it makes you feel secure, it still reinforces the idea that you don't deserve her affection. And that's at the root of all of it. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And so each time it happens,

even though you feel better because she makes you feel loved in spite of it, in spite of the fact that you don't deserve her love, because that can actually feel really amazing, right, that someone loves you and you don't even deserve it. And so that's why you do it. But the other really careful thing is that you're building up that machine that believes that you don't deserve love. And this circles all the way back to this idea that you're lucky and you're grateful and whatever. And if you just go back and you listen to everything that you're saying, John, ask yourself how many of these statements, thoughts, or feelings come from the idea that you don't deserve it, that you're not good enough. Right? You post something about your typing or whatever.

And then people are like, ha, ha. Yeah. Why are you so bad, bro? Okay, like, why does that hurt? Because you don't feel like you have value on the inside. And all this stuff around your girlfriend and like all of the stuff about, you know, it all comes back to value.

Thoughts, questions about that? No, I mean, it all makes sense. Like, I think that a lot of it definitely comes down to, feeling like I said like feeling like worthless or feeling like you don't you don't deserve like that's a big part of it is like I don't feel like I deserve anything

really you know and like I I think it like started from a good spot of like trying to not be selfish and like trying to not be like I you like I deserve the world like I don't want to be that person you know I want to be grateful and thankful but I mean it goes back to almost like the very beginning of the talk we were talking about that can be dangerous

because then it's like well if you don't deserve anything, then what are you? Are you worthless? Like, and that's where my mind goes. Yep. And so I think it's, it's a tricky balance, right? So how do you, how, so I think it comes down to kind of acceptance of where you are and like, how can you be grateful for the things that you deserve, right? Because we think about like gratitude and deserving is like entitlement at opposite ends of the spectrum, but it's actually really simple, right? Like, if I, if I go to a restaurant and I order food, I deserve that food. And yet, I can still be really grateful that it tastes amazing.

Yeah. Right. And so, and I can also be upset because, you know, I paid for like good food and you guys are giving me like microwave shit from yesterday. Yeah. I'm allowed to be upset at that and also like not be an asshole. I can acknowledge that I actually deserve more than what I got. And then the cool thing is that now we get to a really tricky thing, John, is that I don't know if you can forgive anyone

if they didn't do anything wrong. And if you didn't deserve anything, then no one did anything wrong to you. Right? And so the really tricky thing here is that I don't think you're living a life where you can actually like, like, I don't know if you've forgiven your mom.

Yeah. You know, it's in it, and we haven't really talked about it. And you said that, like, you know, she got her life together. And like, sure, there's a whole story of success and acceptance and transformation and growth, which is really, really positive. And there's also a story of, like, having a child and, like, going through foster care and a lot of uncertainty, a lot of terror. Right. Frankly, I can only imagine what it would be like for a three-year-old to, like, you know, move to some uncle's house. And then, like, you talk about being grateful because you didn't go into the system.

You can express gratitude for your. uncle. And you can also be mad at your mom for like bringing you into a world where she really didn't take care of you for the first couple of years. And I'm not saying that you should call her a bad person, but like, you know, I think it's important if someone kind of doesn't do their job and doesn't do right by their children for the child to be able to forgive. Because I think that there's a lot of negative emotion there and I find it hard to believe that on some level, like you don't hold some of that. Yeah, I think like hearing that I just, I struggle with it because I know my mom has also

beat herself up a lot because of it. And I know like we've had conversations where she like a lot of, she, she blames herself a lot for like how large I was as well as a child. because we couldn't really afford any, like, presents and stuff like that. But, like, whenever we did have extra money, it went to, like, buying fast food or buying, like, a treat, right? Because we could actually, that was, like, something we could afford. And I know that she holds a lot of, a lot of guilt for the size that I was. And, like, she's told me a story.

Like, she used to walk into my room when I was at my heaviest. And, like, when I was sleeping and she'd look at the bed and she would, like, she describes it as, like, it was just a big blob on the bed because of how large I was. and she would leave the room crying, you know. And so I like, I feel a lot of, I feel a lot of pride in the fact that I've been able to take that away from her. Take that guilt away because now I'm good, you know, like you don't have to worry about that. Let me explain something to you, okay? Dude, this is important, but stay with me.

You haven't taken it away from her. She still carries that shit, man. Let me ask you something. If I do something wrong to you and I feel guilty, how do you make me feel better? I mean, I guess like by maybe saying sorry and like not doing it again? No, no. So if I wrong you and I feel guilty, how do you make me feel better? Sorry.

I'm by saying it's all good. Like I'm, it's okay. Like I'll be fine. Ah, so that's what you say. So I think that's the interesting thing. right. So the way... I say that a lot. I'll be fine. Yep. So I don't think that's what it is.

It's for you to say, I forgive you. It's to acknowledge that you fucked up, we're going to own that together, and I forgive you anyway. But I think the problem here is that when you say it's all good, like it's subtle, it's very, very subtle. The person who can get rid of her guilt is actually you, but in order to get rid of her guilt, you have to acknowledge what she did wrong

and then forgive her for it. Yeah, I definitely try and I try and make people not feel bad. And so instead of being like, you know, that was really messed up, I'm like, it's all good, I'm fine, you know, don't worry about it. I say that all the time, like to my girlfriend as well. Like, don't worry about it.

Yep. Which doesn't, I guess, leaves no one with any sort of recourse, I guess, because we're both like, there you go. Right? It's weird. It's one of these adaptations that we have to maintain harmony, but doesn't fix the problem.

And I just think about this for a second. If you go to your mom and like it's going to hurt, right? And you say like when you saw me as a blob, like there are times in my life where I wish that you hadn't given us fast food. But the more that I've come to understand you and things like that, I understand that you didn't know any better and I forgive you for that. And I also think that it's a. that you got clean. Like, do I wish the first couple of my years of my life were different? Yes.

Could you have done a better job? Absolutely. And I forgive you anyway because at the end of the day, you did get your shit together. And you supported me in ways A, B, and C. And I'm not overweight now. I'm doing awesome in life. And part of that is because of what you've given me. And so I forgive you for what happened because at the end of the day, my life is pretty good now. And you did get sober, right? So it's like, John, for you, I mean, you're so insightful and you're so introspective.

For you, this next phase is about balance of the good and the bad. It's not good versus bad. It's not protecting your mom from the hurt because you don't want to hurt her. You have to let her be hurt, and then you have to let her heal. But because you're taking that away from her, you're never holding her responsible. You can't ever forgive her and she can't ever move past it. Instead, you guys just kind of pretend, you know, no harm, no foul.

Yeah. Which there's a part of me that says that, like, for her to truly be at peace, you've got to let her own her mistakes. But make sure she doesn't fall into the trap of devaluing her successes to. You've got to give her both, the good and the bad. And then if you say, Mom, I forgive you, I think then her guilt will really go away. Because right now it's just buried. Yeah.

Thoughts? I mean, I think that you are definitely right. I think like this is something that a lot of my family has done. I would say most specifically probably my brother and me. My brother, he's older than I am. And he is also, you know, doing his own thing. He just got married. They're about to have a baby soon.

And like he's gotten out of that kind of world. and so we both kind of try and just be like, hey, we're good. My mom, everything's fine. But a lot of my, some parts of my family haven't really gotten out of it. And they struggle with the same things my mom did. And so I think part of why it's so hard for me to do that to my mom is because I know that she's still struggling with so much guilt with like my oldest brother Travis is still a, he's still a drug addict. And like he's getting arrested all the time still. and he's almost, he's 40 years old.

And my mom, I know my mom carries a lot of guilt with, with him still, about him still. And then with my younger sister, she is, he's getting on the right foot, but she's had a lot of struggles as well. And my mom basically, like, takes care of her child, my niece, Faith, who I love a lot. But I know that she carries a lot of guilt because of that. So I just feel bad, like, stacking, you know? Like, I just like, hey, I'm doing good, mom. I know that you have to worry about them.

Don't worry about me. I'm cool. Like everything's, you know, I'm doing, I'm doing well, which obviously isn't true. But it's like, that's, I guess what I tell myself. Yeah. So I think it's, it's makes sense, right? Because you're protecting her. Yeah.

Like you said, you don't want to stack guilt. And so I'm not saying that the conversation needs to happen now. Yeah. But I do think for real healing. And, and, you know, this reminds me of, of. you know, sometimes I hear some people say that, you know, your mom did the best that she could. I hear this a lot from children who are protective of their parents.

Yeah. And they said, you know, she did the best that she could. You don't say she did a great job. She said she did the best that she could. There's a big difference there. And I'm telling you, I've seen this play out a couple of times where like in the right time and the right place, you can have a conversation with her.

And then the other thing is that sometimes you don't even need a conversation with her. You just need to like process that for yourself. And then she'll feel because right now what she gets from you is like she fucking knows, man, she's your mom. She knows that there's a wall that you're putting up and you're trying to protect her.

And she loves you for it. But she's your mom and she knows that on the other side of that wall is hurt. and even if you can forgive her yourself and you don't have to say anything to her but if you can forgive her and you can stop protecting her and you can let those walls down

she's going to know that too and I've seen that when we'll work through things in therapy with patients where like people will let go of resentment towards their parents and like their parents like it's weird like they'll meet for Christmas and their parents will like start crying and shit

and like no one knows what's going on but like they can tell yeah I mean yeah I think like even if you don't want to just say it's like through wavelengths but like it definitely could be through how I would act because I definitely don't I don't reach out to her very much I don't share much with her because again it's like I'm just trying to like I guess like I don't want to say like wash my hands of it but just I just like hey you're you're doing your thing I'm doing my thing there's no reason like I love you there's no reason for us to talk too much you know we don't really don't talk very much at all

how do you feel about that it's it's definitely something that I I didn't think that it would happen because I lived with her up until it was like 23 or 24. And so I lived with her. So we talked all the time. But then once I left, it was like almost because that that house that I was living in was very crazy. Like my sister lived there with my niece and it was her. And then at one point we had 10 people living there with one bathroom. Like it was just crazy.

And I remember like leaving there. I felt like I was leaving everything behind. and I kind of treated it that way. Like I just kind of stopped reaching out. And I kind of just like, I just wait for her to reach out to me. I think like not because I don't care about her, but because like one thing I also like really struggle with is feeling like I'm a burden.

And I don't want to feel like I'm being a burden by like, hey, I have this. Or like, I need this help. Or I just wanted to reach out and say hi. Like even though that's silly, like why would I be a burden by? just saying hi. Like that's how I feel. And so I just don't, you know. Okay. So now we're getting into different territory. So, so, you know, where does that feeling come from? Because that's an echo too. Oh, the burden thing is, oh, man, I think it comes from similar places of like the feeling stupid. Um, because of the extra help I would get, I felt like I was becoming a burden to other people.

and then like this is like it's it's a lot of like when I say like I'm worthless and all this stuff then I'm also tacking on like you're you're being a burden like you're making things harder for other people so this is why I think like I've even had conversations with people that help me like with some of my my mods in my discord and like all this stuff is like I don't I I almost never ask them for help and they're like dude you're we want to help you and I'm just like no I'll do it myself like I just do it myself it's fine like I I I'm used to doing everything on my own. And I think it's because I don't like to, I just don't want people to feel like they need to help me. Like I want to be able to, I can do it my own. I don't need anyone to

help me because I feel like if I'm being a burden, that's like a negative thing. And then like, I'm a burden because I am stupid. And because I am, I can't do things on my own. And I just, I really, really don't like feeling that way. Because like I want to help others. I don't want others to have to help me, I guess. Right? So I don't want others. So that's interesting because there's a, I, you tossed in one very interesting word there. I want to help others. I don't want others to have to help me. Yeah. Right? That I don't want it like, it's a necessity when they're helping you.

Because you can't do it without them. And, and I think there's something significant. I don't know exactly what that is. it's going to take me some time to process that. But the other thing, so, John, I would say, you know, I'm going to give you some advice or ask you to do something, which is something I very rarely do. I think you should talk to your mom more. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Okay.

And here's why. So it sounds like your sister is still kind of struggling, your brother is still kind of struggling, and you don't want to help her. I think you should give your mom a wonderful opportunity that your brother and sister can't help, can't give her, which is the opportunity to help one of her children and it actually end up well. Right? Yeah.

You should give her the chance to help you. And this is the thing. She doesn't need to help you. You don't have to have it happen. So we're going to dispel all of that. Give her the opportunity. If you need some support, let her support you. And you know in the back of your mind, if she can't do it, no big deal.

You're going to be fine anyway. but give her the chance if you're worried about something or you have like a fight with your girlfriend or whatever like you know if you really want to push your girlfriend away talk to your mom about it right but I would say just talk to her man and even even feeling like I can't tell you do you have kids John no okay so I can tell you as a dad like kids burdening you is like only annoying some of the time but generally speaking you know as a parent, like, I love to know what's going on in my kid's life. I love to be able to help. That's what I'm fucking here for. And for your mom, you've got to give her the chance to make up for lost time. Because right now in her mind, I can guarantee you that she feels that there's a pile of shit that she should have done for you that she didn't do. And you feel like you're a burden, but what you're really doing is preventing her from like paying off that debt.

You know, so give her the opportunity to help you. Give her the opportunity to be a part of your life. And let her see that you're okay. And let her see that you're not okay. And if you need her help, like that's totally cool, man. Like, take her help because that's what moms are here for. Mm-hmm. What do you think about that?

I mean, I think that, I mean, it's definitely something that I, I think will be helpful. I know I would the first thing I wanted to say is that I need to do but I I just I didn't feel like I wanted to use that those words but I do believe that it is um something that will not just be helpful to me but I I know will be helpful to her and even if it's like like yeah like like you said like just being like hey mom I this happened today I'm just stressed about it what you think you know and like just like even like even though it might seem insignificant to me the thought that she could like help me talk me through it or just kind of share her thoughts.

I know that she would she would appreciate that opportunity. So I mean, I agree. Yeah. Right. And, you know, let her, because I think if we really think about like, if we really think about where this echo comes from, right? So I, what it is in Sanskrit that's called a sumskar. So somskad is like a ball of undigested emotion or like a trauma.

What we're really talking about is like when we think about, and this may sound, you know, be careful about, I've been hesitating to say this, but I'm just going to go ahead and say it. So if we think about really where insecurity comes from, there's this branch of psychology called attachment theory. And attachment theory has to do with the security of the child and how a child feels valued. And there are children who grow up with something that we call insecure attachment or children who grow up with secure attachment. And the studies that are done on this, how you tell whether a child is. secure or has insecure or secure attachment. They do this really cool experiment.

Parent and child are in a room with some blocks. And then stranger walks into the room. They do this with like one year olds, okay? And then mom gets up and leaves the room. How long does it take for the child to start crying? When the mom just like gets up and walks away. Like how long before the child notices becomes uncomfortable with the other stranger in the room? and then the cool thing is for kids who are securely attached when mom walks back into the room,

how long does it take for children to stop crying? How long does it take when they start to feel insecure, when you start to feel worthless, how long does it take for other people to be able to reassure you? And so for children who are securely attached, it takes like less than 15 seconds. They cry really loud and like mom walks into the room. And within a few seconds, like the crying is gone.

What I'm hearing from you, and this has to do with maybe like mind-body kind of stuff, is like, I think if you grew up in a household in the first three years of your life with parents who are using, you probably your brain learned that the world is like kind of a dangerous place. And it's hard to reassure children who have insecure attachment. And so what I'm hearing from you is that it's hard to reassure you, right? Like when other people tell you, it's going to be okay. I just don't believe them. I'm like, yeah, you're lying.

And the really tricky thing there is that, like, why is that? It's because, like, when you were one and before you even had memories, when you were scared, like, it's sad to say, but, like, it probably wasn't okay. Like, it may have been something as simple as, like, you know, you needed a diaper change or you were hungry or something like that. and actually your basic needs weren't met. It's really sad. I remember one time I was, when I was doing my pediatrics rotation,

we had this one kid on the floor who looked really interesting. So it's interesting you talk about, you know, extra skin. So it was like a really wrinkly baby. Like super, super wrinkly. Like flabs of skin, like hanging off. They looked like an old person,

but like a baby. Turns out the kid was very malnourished. And so they just had no baby fat. And the kid was just the sweetest kid in the world because the kid never cried. All the other kids cried. This kid doesn't cry. And I was like, that's kind of interesting.

Like, kids seem super chill. And one of the nurses, because nurses really understand shit, okay, let me explain something to y'all. Nurse was like, the kid has learned that crying is useless. That if it cries, no one's going to come. So when it feels bad,

it just sits with itself. It doesn't reach out to other people. Right? And so if we really think about like what happened to you it's like my guess is that it runs really deep my dude and the good news i know that's dark but the good news is that you don't have to feel that way right is that that can change and i think that basically like give your mom a chance to like love you and take care of you and the next time you feel like a child go running to mama and like just

i'm curious like what would happen i'm really curious from a diagnostic perspective you can push your girlfriend away but i'm I wonder what would happen if you went crying to mama. Like if she would actually, like, that's what you need. Right? And that's what she needs. And then she gets the chance to like fix what she didn't do right in the first three years of your life. Anyway, I've been talking a lot for like the last half an hour to 45 minutes.

No, I think like it's interesting that you bring that up because I definitely have this weird like my mom and my dad. They're both so appreciative when we talk on the phone. because we don't really see each other very much. My dad lives kind of far away, like an hour. And so whenever, if we talk on the phone, they're always, like, super happy. And it's weird because, like, I feel good about that. But then I also almost feel bad that they,

like, the simple act of just talking on the phone, like, brings them so much joy. And, like, I am, I almost feel like I am withholding that joy from them in some way because I'm not interested in really talking that much. Like, I think it might be, like, you said, like, this sense of, I'm still blaming them for things. So I just kind of like, I'm just like,

good. You guys do your thing. We'll do our thing. It's all good. You know, I'm fine. And so I definitely, like I,

what you're saying now, I mean, definitely resonates with me. I guess is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. I mean, so John, I'm going to put different words to it.

Okay, you let me know. Because these are like kind of nasty words. I'm fine without you. I don't need you anymore. Yeah. Yeah. You weren't there when I needed you and I don't

fucking need you now. Yeah. Right? So that you've got to let go of, man. That anger, like, got to let it go. And you're not going to be able to do that without forgiving him. Yeah.

And so, like, to say that, like, I needed you before you weren't there for me. And I grew up anyway. And I hate you for that. But I also love you. because I recognize that, like, you had a hard life to. And that, like, at some point, you know, you did show up. And that without you, I probably wouldn't be where I am today. But boy, did I wish you did a better job.

Because it caused me a lot of hurt. Mm-hmm. And you don't have to have that conversation now. Yeah. Like, you can have it when you're ready. But I'm not surprised that, you know, it's hard for, you know, you to talk to them and you kind of say it's all good now because there's an undercurrent of like anger and blame underneath that yeah and then what we do is we we just pile on all this positivity right

like i don't want to make him feel bad because all those things are true it's not that those things aren't true it's just that yeah you know john you got a root of it yep right it's not just beast it's obese too beast yeah right it's like triumph over adversity which means that there was I started crying. I took that one for the team. Thanks. I appreciate it. Yeah. Is it cool if I go to the bathroom real quick?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, go for it. Okay. I'll be right back. I'm sorry. Yeah. So, you know, John, it actually feels to me like we've kind of covered a fair amount of ground. And, you know, if you have questions or stuff, I'd love to answer them. If you have thoughts that you want to share, I'd love to listen. we can talk a little bit about meditation if you'd like but you know i kind of feel like we're at a decent pause or stopping point how do you feel no yeah i think that that sounds good to me i just yeah i wanted to wait to go to the bathroom until there was like a i feel like a natural break in the conversation

i don't want to be like all right i got to go um so i guess like one thing that i am just interested this is a very my own kind of personal thing so um recently i've cut out um caffeine for the most part like because I felt like it was like really triggering my anxiety but I was just kind of curious what what you think about that is that like kind of BS does that actually help people um is that actually a useful thing because I definitely do miss caffeine but I feel like I do feel like it's helped me but I'm just like is that placebo um you know healthy with what like with my anxiety because like I was I was I was I felt like I was noticing when I would um drink coffee in the morning was I would like feel those feelings of anxiety a lot and like I would have like those little episodes that I was telling you

about maybe to a lesser degree. But I was just kind of curious like what you think about that. Yeah. So I think that it certainly is helpful. So the first thing to understand is that, you know, human beings are different. And so you've got to experiment and kind of work, figure out what works for you. But there are some general principles. So if we think about caffeine, caffeine is a stimulant, right? And anxiety is an issue of exercise. And anxiety is an issue of excess energy or like the mind running really, really fast. If we think about if we talk to people who have anxiety, it's not like their mind runs slow. It's like their mind is like super, super fast.

Right. And so we think about medications for anxiety. Like some people find that, you know, marijuana or alcohol, like they self-medicate. And what do those substances do? They slow us down. Right? So they're downers. And then if we think about the class of drugs or chemicals that stimulate us, caffeine,

meth, cocaine, other kinds of stimulants are going to make anxiety worse. So worsening anxiety, for example, is a potential side effect of ridolin or adderol. So any kind of stimulant can make caffeine worse. So I don't think that's just placebo or anything like that. Generally speaking, you know, those caffeine is going to like increase the activity of our neurons and make them kind of jittery and make, you know, thoughts increase in rapidity. And if we just think about it, I think a lot of stuff in our body and our mind are two-way streets. So if we speed up our mind, we're more likely to be anxious. And the more anxious we are, the quicker our mind goes.

And if you think about, you know, what do people want to do with anxiety? They just want their mind to slow down. They want, like, everything to slow down. I would bet money that when you had the panic attack, your mind was like firing thoughts at you, like a thousand thoughts a second. You know, and it's just like, oh, my God, this, and then this, and then this, and then this. And so caffeine puts your mind into a state where it is more vulnerable to that kind of thing. You're kind of priming it for rapid thoughts. And so anxiety kind of really grows in that sort of soil.

So I think it's good that you cut caffeine out. Yeah. You can definitely help with. Yeah. My like pool plan I was thinking about eventually if I do introduce it again, it would be like before I, like only before. workouts because I've always felt like if I have like a like the caffeine is going to something right like I'm going to do a workout so like my brain is focused on that then it would maybe help I'm still not exactly sure how I'm going to implement that but like those are I don't know I just I just wanted

to ask you about that because I figured you probably have an insight absolutely so I mean some people do take caffeine as like a pre-workout supplement right so people will even take like caffeine pills and stuff to improve their workouts you know I think it sort of makes sense but I think generally speaking, you know, the more, the fewer mind-altering substances you have floating around in your system, the more tranquil your mind is going to be. And caffeine is certain. Yeah. Yeah. Other questions. Well, the last thing I just kind of want to talk about, I know that this is a big subject, but I just, I don't want to take up too much time. But like with the, the thought of like, okay, because I mean, I deal with this so much of people asking me this question or like thinking this way is like,

Okay, I am overweight and I'm unhappy about being overweight. So I feel like if I lose the weight, then I will be happy. Right. Like, I guess I'm just asking, like, have you dealt with that? And like, what would you maybe like say to someone that might have that like mindset that would be coming to you and asking you about that? It's a great question. So that is a very complex topic. Yeah.

That ultimately has to do with the nature of happiness. Okay. So we can go into that just very quickly. But so a couple of things. The first thing is that it makes sense sometimes for people to feel happier once they lose weight. Right. It's not, if you take a thousand people who are overweight and then they all lose weight, on the whole, the people that lose weight are more likely to be more happy.

Right? So the first thing to acknowledge is that in a lot of cases, losing weight does lead people to feel happier. And there are physiologic reasons for that and stuff like that. you just have more energy. It's not so much about the weight loss. It's about the exercise and the positive effects of exercise. Your basic metabolic rate can go up, things like that. You feel less thamsick, which is another kind of thing, which I won't go into.

But for those of you who are familiar with that. So the first thing is that sometimes they feel happy. The second thing is that sometimes happiness isn't necessarily due to weight, right? Happiness is like a self-esteem issue or, you know, feeling like you don't deserve love. or attention or things like that, which gets tangled up with the weight. And we know that because you even said that like, you know, when I'm feeling down and my sister is mean to me, I go and I find comfort in nachos. And that also is like not stupid or anything.

That's because we actually have, you know, chemicals in our brain that are released from fatty foods and sugary foods that will actually improve our mood in the short term. and so people can start to feel happier through food, but what they're doing is they're using food as like kind of an antidote to a deeper set problem. And then they start to gain weight. Their weight gain praise on their preexisting insecurities. And for those people who feel like if I change my weight, I'll be happy and everything will be great,

that's not going to work, right? Because it's like the preexisting insecurity. And you're actually a wonderful example of that, John, because in a lot of ways you have an awesome life that you really enjoy living and that you're grateful for, and you have stuff that lingers that is independent of your weight. So that's the second thing I would tell them.

So where is the root of your unhappiness? And I think a lot of times what happens, and the third thing, which is really the longer discussion, which I'm working on actually a set of videos about this, is like where does happiness come from, right? Because a lot of times what happens is people look at being unhappy,

and what they do is they look at some external thing, and I even consider to a certain degree your body to be an external thing. If I change this about my life, then I will be happy. And so it's like, if I had a girlfriend, I'd be happy, if I lost weight, I'd be happy. If I graduated from college, I'd be happy. If I was in college, I'd be happy. I wouldn't have to feel ashamed about myself if this thing in the outside world was different. And I've worked with some very, very successful people who are very, very unhappy. And what they find is that they chase one thing and then they're They chase the next thing and they chase the next thing and they chase the next thing.

We did an interview a couple weeks back with Gross Gore where we sort of talk about that because he was someone who was really like, yeah, I want the next thing. And that's how I'm going to be happy. So then let me ask you something. If I eat a cookie and I feel happy, where does the happiness come from? Does it come from the cookie or does it come from me? I would say it comes from you. But the cookie is what made me happy, right?

Why do you say it comes from you? Well, because like, I guess it's like you chose to eat the cookie and you like it's your choice to do that. And then so you fulfilled something that you were like trying to do, I guess. Sure. So the fulfillment of my desire is what makes me happy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. So I guess that's the same thing as the cookie. No, no. So I think you're right. The happiness does come from me. I'm just challenging it a little bit. So if we like think about it, like it's this idea that like, you know, if something. else, like if I get this thing that I'm going to be happy, that fulfilling my desires is what

makes me happy. That's what you're saying. And that sort of makes sense because if we think about it, like if I eat one cookie and then I eat a second cookie and a third cookie and a fourth cookie and a fifth cookie, what happens to my happiness with subsequent cookies? I personally would say it probably would go down. Yeah, right? Because too many cookies. Right, exactly. So therefore, we can say that like if the happiness really can't, from the outside thing, then the more of the outside thing we get, the more happy would be. And this is what happens with people who chase money, right? They're like, I want $1,000, I want $1,000, I want $100,000, I want $1,000, $1,000, $3 million, $4 million, $5 million.

They just want more, more, more. Because they think that that money is going to bring them happiness. But it doesn't. The happiness actually comes from in here. If you really tunnel down and you look at it, and then you also say that the fulfillment of desires is what brings you happiness. But, you know, I think the tricky part with that is if I eat a cookie and I feel sated, what happens the next day? You want to have another cookie? Absolutely. Right? So fulfilling your desires actually just buys you more unfulfilled desires in the future.

Which is what we see, right? So then they lose weight. And then they're like, I'm still not happy. Yeah. Now I want this. Now I want this. Now I want this. And so chasing after your desires, even though it brings us a temporary satisfaction,

actually signs us up to become more dependent on fulfilling our desires to make ourselves feel better. And it's a beast that never grows full. It'll always be hungry again the next day. And so what would I say to these people? Probably some combination of all of that. That on the one hand, if we really look at it scientifically, improving your weight is probably going to lead to an increase in mood. But that if you have some psychological, like, unfulfilled need

or low self-esteem that you equate to weight, fixing your weight won't be enough. It'll help, but it won't be enough. Yeah. And that ultimately, if you really want to be happy in life, you have to really understand that changing anything about your external circumstances is not going to be the real answer. and that it really has to do with like accepting yourself as who you are,

letting go of desire and things like that. Yeah. Does that make sense for sure? Complete enough of an answer. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, usually what I try and tell people is like you can't think of it as like a magic bullet or like a silver bullet or something that's going to fix everything. Like there are certain things that yes, like if you're really upset that you can't bend down

and put your shoes on, then yeah, losing weight will obviously fix that. thing, which might make you a little bit happy about that. But if it's like you're struggling with me, like struggle with anxiety or whatever, it's like it's not going, it's just not going to fix that, that thing. Yeah. So, okay. All right. Yeah.

Yeah, cool. Any other questions or great questions, man? No, I think that's about it. I mean, I again, like I said, I appreciate you taking the time to talk. This was very insightful. I wanted to say fun, but I feel like that's not. But I genuinely did enjoy the conversation. Yeah.

but it was very insightful and interesting. Yeah, John, I just want to echo again. I think you were a really insightful person. I think we, I got to teach a little bit more because I think you had gone halfway there on your own. So a lot of times I have to like get people to kind of where you started off. And so I really enjoyed that. I hope I didn't monopolize the conversation too much. No, no, I mean, what I wanted to say is I think a lot of,

like not to like try and like sing your praises too much but like I think a lot of it was has been from watching your videos and like because like a lot of times I'll watch them or watch them but I'll listen to them as I'm like on a walk or something and I try and put myself in the position as much as I can and so I would I would say that's probably why maybe I was able to be like you said be halfway there because I I really try to like okay how does this make me feel like you know so um you you you probably you weren't even you weren't even doing you you weren't even talking to me, but you were helping me at the same time, which I know is exactly why you do this stuff. Yeah, that's really cool. I think I'm really actually happy to hear that, John, because I hope more people do what you do,

because I think part of what I'm excited about is teaching people like step two, right? And I don't give people much advice because most people are still in the diagnosis phase where they need to figure out what's going on. I think you've done such a good job of sort of starting that process that it's like really like, call your mom and see what happens, right? Talk to her. There are a lot of subtle things because you really have grown. It's like the higher you climb, you know, the thinner the air gets and the harder it is to keep climbing. And that's what's really tricky. And John, the last thing that I want to say is, damn, son, like you were really an outlier when it comes to the hand that you were dealt. And how far you've come. Yeah. Thank you. It's something that I've, it's weird because,

like I said, the thing I struggle with is feeling like I'm not special and stuff, but it's something that I've really been like, I've started to notice more and more. And so I try not to make it seem like what I've done is like the easy thing that anyone can do it. Like I try, when I say that, like, I try and put myself in the position of someone that might not be able to do that. And like, how do I help that person, right? But yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. Do you meditate? I can't say that I do. Okay. That's totally cool, man. I mean, do you feel judged when you have to say no to that question?

No, I just, I've watched a lot of your videos and I know that you a lot of times will do guided meditations. And so I guess I feel like, man, maybe I should be. So be careful, right? So don't judge yourself. So now this is going to be really, really, really hard. Okay? So be really, really, really careful. Okay, John, this is the final exam. So I'm going to ask you if you want me to teach you some meditation. And I want you to answer with not what you should say, but what you actually feel. Yeah.

I think I would, I would like to learn some stuff for sure. Okay, cool. So I'm going to teach you some super basic stuff. Okay. I try to teach this periodically. Have you, have you done alternate nostril breathing with us before?

Yes, I did. I think it was, it was one of the videos. I did as much as I could because again, I was on a walk. So I was like,

that's totally cool. So let's do it now. Okay, so I try to teach this periodically. But I think it's just a great place to, so alternate nostril breathing is going to be good when you're in those dark moments where you're losing control of yourself.

If you do even nine breaths of alternate nostril breathing, not to say that it's going to be the magic bullet and wipe it all away, but I think you're going to be able to take a little bit more control. Okay? So alternate nostril breathing is a should-the technique. Should-the means cleansing. And I think, John, what you need to do more than anything else, is like clean this crap out because you're killing it in so many different ways that you just

you've got your trash can is filled up in your subconscious and just clean it out. So what I'm going to ask you to do is take your right hand and fold down two fingers. Yeah, that's fine too. Yeah, good. Yeah. So and then we're going to put our right thumb on our right nostril and breathe in. And when your breath is full, we're going to block the other nostril. Good with your pinky. Good. And breathe out. and breathe in through the same nostril. Switch and breathe out. In through the same nostril. Switch and out.

If you're watching at home, go ahead and join in. Breathe in. Switch. Breathe out. In. Switch. Out. Go ahead and continue at your own pace.

Remember to breathe out, then in, then switch. And people may find that one nostril is more closed than the other. That's completely normal. It's just part of your swara. We'll practice for about 60 more seconds. Go ahead and finish the breath that you're on. Let your eyes remain closed and just relax. And I want you to just take a snapshot of who you are in this moment.

Just feel the perfection of your being. It's not big. It's not small. It's not brilliant. It's not stupid. It's just you. And remember that no matter how you feel or what echoes may arise from your subconscious, this is who you are.

And when you're ready, come on back. My camera seems to have meditated as well. Yeah, this is actually kind of creepy, bro. It's very weird. One second. Like, chat, this is creepy, right? There we go. that was very strange i've never i've never had that happen before

yeah i swear sometimes weird stuff happens on this like i like don't know you know i don't know anyway you seem to be back now you feel like you're back yeah i don't know that was it's it's literally never happened it's so i'll have it on for hours i i really don't know what to say man i've never i've i've never heard of Yeah, it's just, it's just like too fucking weird of a coincidence, right? It really is, yeah. But like how on Earth, there's no scientific plausibility for anything that has to do with anything about what just happened. There's just nothing. It's just all just completely fucking.

I was, I was very confused. I like, open my eyes. I was like, how did he turn off my camera to make it more? I was very, I was like, wait, how is it off? I don't know. It's so weird. Anyway, so I think we found a good technique for your camera. So stick with it. And listen, John, I mean, I hope the technique helped you calm yourself a little bit or, you know, you felt some degree of tranquility or peace. No, for sure. I think, like, I've heard you explain to, like, the fact that you have to kind of focus on what you're doing, it definitely helps me. Because, I mean, my mind is always going.

So the fact that I have to, okay, breathe in, breathe out, okay, you know what I mean? It helps me kind of not worry about, like, the noises. I'm hearing in the background or whatever. Great. And John, before we wrap up, I know people will kind of trickle in. Do you just want to tell us a little bit about who you are and where we can find more information about you? Yeah.

So my name is John or Obes to Beast. I talk about, you know, weight loss. I talk about, you know, helping people that are, you know, trying to lose weight. If you want to watch any of my videos or anything like that, it's Obest to Beast on YouTube, also on Instagram, Obesast to Beast, here on Twitch. Beast to Beast as well. I try and I live stream both on YouTube and on Twitch. If you guys like watching live streams, usually a lot of just hanging out and talking for the most part. I'm not a great gamer. I'll play among us, but that's about it.

And yeah, so that's pretty much where you can find me Twitter as well, Obes to Beast. It's all the same. Cool. Thanks a lot, man. And, and you know, really good luck to you, John. Yeah, thank you. I just appreciate it. Sorry. Yeah, you're very welcome, man. and good luck to you and good luck on your journey. And keep us posted. You know, let us know how things are going with your mom.

We'll do. I'll let you know for sure. Take care, guys. All right.