HealthyGamerGG - How to Have a Successful Relationship ft. Dr. Lupo and Mrs DrLupo

Episode Date: July 11, 2021

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Let's just work with what we've got. That'll be fine. So let's start off by, can you all help me understand what, how should I address each of you? What should I call you? Yeah, I can be Sam. Okay. Nice to meet you, Sam. First, first name is not a problem.

Okay, you guys can call me all up too, like, or Dr. Kate, you know, whatever people prefer. And so, Sam and Ben, can you all help me understand a little bit about how you guys got into stream? I'll start because it's your origin story so so way back when I think what 2016 Destiny 1 had a game mode called trials of Osiris added and I decided to I had like a channel that I used to watch myself AFK Farm Diablo while I was at work yeah I'd never watch Twitch at work but yeah but it was it was like the origin of just the channel existing never used it for anything until trials came out and then I started streaming to help my friend Brian try and grow his channel. I got pretty lucky, not to his benefit, but when he went to college,

he moved into a dorm that did not have, uh, it didn't have good internet. So I benefited from that by continue. I was like, I'm just going to keep the our little community that we grew together, uh, going. I'll continue to stream on my channel because I was, I already had like a career. I worked in IT for years and years. I went to college and graduated all that. And so I was only streaming just to help him out. And when he couldn't stream anymore, I continued to keep things going.

And it just kind of grew from there. I think that I got lucky a bunch of times in a row to get to where I am now, or maybe right place, right time and capitalize on it. And it grew to where it is now. And do you guys mind if I, so just a couple of ground rules, you know, anything that you, if I ask a question that y'all don't feel comfortable answering or is out of line in any way, shape, or form, just let me know. But since we are talking about parenting, you know,

I thought I would ask y'all one or two questions about y'all's relationship and maybe how y'all met. Is that cool? So how did you guys meet? I'll take this one. I lived in a duplex in college with four other girls. And on the other side were five other guys. And one of them happened to be Ben's childhood best friend. And he came over to watch. a Star Trek Rift Tracks movie. I don't remember. I never remember which one it is, Benjamin. Whatever Star Trek movie.

Wrath of Khan. Yeah. Shatner climbs, you know, L. Cap and Yosevity at the beginning of it. That's all I remember. But I was outside with one of the neighbor guys trying to help me fix my car. And, you know, it was just a

POS and I was kicking it and super upset because I needed to get to work the next day. And Ben and the other guys walk up and they got my car started so I can go to work tomorrow and like go clean up come over and watch this movie with us so you can relax okay come over got the whole entire thing everybody's talking and then this guy across the room just keeps like staring at me and he keeps trying to be part of this conversation that I'm in and I'm like who the heck is this guy I don't know um and it wasn't until I left that as I walked past

him to leave to go to my side of the building. He grabbed my arm and he's like, hey, I'm Ben. And I was like, hi, I'm Sam. Okay, bye. Like, but it just bounced right out of there. It wasn't until like a couple weeks after we, you know, met that he added me on Facebook when it wasn't weird to add random people on social media. And we just got to start.

Okay, yeah, this was before what it was like just schools. And it was, yeah, exactly. It wasn't weird yet to do that kind of stuff. And he just, we just started talking. I was casually seeing somebody else at the time. And basically, you know, that guy screwed up too many times. And Ben was there when I was upset. He was the first person I called crying because this guy stood me up.

And he was in the best part is, is he never was pushy about it. Like, but he also wasn't. wasn't like complacent that I was seeing another guy. He would. This movie sounds horrible. No, no, no, no. Like, I knew that you liked me, but it wasn't like you were trying to put yourself in between.

Like you were respectful that I was seeing somebody else. Yeah. But you also made sure to make it known that you really liked me and that you cared about me and stuff like that. And so when I was sick of the other guy, I was just like, oh, well, there's this dude here. So he's really nice. And then what we had our first date,

maybe like a week or so after we, after I was done seeing that guy. And there you go. Now it's been what? It's been 14 years this summer? Yep. Yeah. So can I get Ben's version of offense?

Okay. Because I feel like that's. Okay. I'm going to start all the way. Yeah. I'll start beginning. So I. My friend Tom and I, we were going to go over to hang out and watch a Rift Tracks dub of Rathcon.

I was super excited. And when we're walking up to Duplex and there's this girl outside in a blue and white flannel shirt, ripped up jeans. You know, she was the same age as us, but she was very frustrated with her vehicle and was swearing at it. And so we offered to help her with it. And it's just like, you know, go relax. You know, long day, take shower, you know, get cleaned. up, come over and just hang out and forget about the problem for a little while. So she did that.

And while we're watching the movie, Rob, conversations, I was not staring across the room. I made glances as one does, all right, from time to time. And I never got an opportunity to introduce myself directly. So before she left, I said, you know what, F it. I reached out and I grabbed their arm and said, hey, by the way, I'm Ben. And she said she's Sam and she left. it. It wasn't weird, okay? But it was definitely not pushy. It was one of those

like, hey, she's cute. I want to, I don't even, I didn't get a chance to like directly interact with her at all, so I figured I might as well give it a shot and go for it. And like she said, I did find her on Facebook and editor and we started talking a little bit.

Do you remember the, you were going to go on a trip to Yosemite and do you remember what I said to you? I asked you how long before you leave. Yes. This is before, this is after I stopped seeing the other guy. And you had said, when are you supposed to go on that trip to Yosemite? And I said two weeks.

And you're like, all right, I have two weeks for you to go on a date with me then. And it worked. So here we are. And the next day was our date. So that was, I got to say, Ben, well played, sir. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's pretty smooth.

No, because like here's the thing, right? So I think a lot of times, like people say like, oh, nice guys finish last, right? But like, I think there's this very tricky tight rope of like letting your intentions be known and like not pretending that nothing is going on. And at the same time, like still being respectful of boundaries. Yeah. Which is like really hard. I think a lot of people like either they, they don't, they're not transparent enough.

Like I'm, you know, I'm in favor of being transparent. And like if you have, you know, if you're attracted to someone or interested in them. And like, like, like, like, I think like, like, like, solid, bro. Like, you know, not letting her like, you like, you know, she's walking out the door, taking your last chance to at least introduce yourself, not asking for her. number, no compliments or anything, just, you know, because it says a lot, but like, it's also like, it's super smooth, bro. The idea is kind of like, I don't, there's nothing to lose at that point.

You might as well go for it, right? Yep. But also like, but don't go too far. Oh, yeah, there's a line. I could have been like, hey, so you should stop what you're doing and hang out and talk with me right now. That's obviously she was on her way out. You want to go sit out on the front porch with me and chat.

Yeah. That was not the goal. The goal was just literally to try and plant the seat. which I know you can take all sorts of ways because we have a kid now, but you know what I mean. Like, but to try and start some sort of conversation. Can we just appreciate for a moment that Ben remembers what she was wearing? I wore that same shirt on our wedding day, too, to get to get ready. Specifically because he very much, that was like his visual.

And I still have the shirt to this day. Yeah. So let me ask you something, Ben. Like, and I'm sort of, I have a hypothesis here. How long did it take you to fall in love? with Sam. Probably with a internally, probably not very long.

I remember what the first time. Do you remember where we were the first time I said it to you? We were walking past the fabric section of Hobby Lobby. Yep. And I, and do you remember whether you said it back or not? Because I don't, I don't think I said it back right away.

Not initially. And that was fine. Yeah, I've always been the girl that, you know, I felt like I had to say it back in my younger relationships, but as I got older, I was like, no, like they don't deserve that unless I'm ready for it, right? And I wasn't going to be, I wasn't going to try and force her to do or say something she didn't want to say, but it will, but like you said, transparency is important. So there's no reason for me to, to not be open about how I felt.

I think you stopped me and you looked at me and said it. And then I just looked at you and just smiled and I gave you a hug. and then we kept walking to like go by yarn or something. Yep. Sounds about right. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I, you know, I'm going to say that I think maybe it was like maybe the moment you saw her, just a tiny bit.

So if we think about neuroscientifically, okay? I know. I know you guys have figured out it may not be true. But here's just maybe I'm drawing from my own experience, which is that I fell absolutely in love with my wife the moment I saw her. It just took me years to realize it. And I think it's kind of interesting because like, you. if we look at memory in the way that memory works, you know,

you can remember a moment from a decade ago, and you cannot remember what you had for lunch two days ago. So temporality has a piece of it, right? Yeah. But actually it's your current emotional state that is the closest, the strongest influence for what you remember. So like how deep a memory sinks in

depends on the emotional activation in that moment. So it's really fascinating that you remember so many details. Like you guys remember so many details. Like you remember like what the movie was. You remember what the circumstances were. You remember what she was wearing. Like you guys remember so much about, just think about this. This is what like, you know, a 60 second span 14 years ago and it's like crystal clear in your mind,

which is from like a neuroscience perspective implies one of two things. Either you guys have talked about it a ton, which is certainly a possibility. or but even that I think it's like something there's like a spark something like something like you know sunk in and and so anyway I have a visual memory of Ben walking up to my car with the group of guys before I even met him. I have a very split two second clip in my brain that maybe I created or not but I visually remember I was sitting on the curb and like even the angles of everything on my street and stuff like that. Yeah, awesome. So it sounds like, yeah, y'all's origin story is super dope. Let's put it that way. And so can y'all help me understand a little bit so you guys, it sounds like y'all started dating and then Ben was streaming at that point already? No, no, no. Okay, okay. I, okay. So I didn't actually start until after I had already graduated from college and I had a career. I worked in IT for a really long time.

I was a senior systems engineer at an insurance company where I live and doing all the networking and data center management, virtual machine deployment. I'm a big nerd is what it comes down to. It's like IT and computer science. That was my thing. That's what I majored in in college and all that. And I didn't actually even start streaming until, but this was 2017. So what year did I graduate from college? I didn't remember.

You graduated in 2005 from high school. of high school. So 2009. So it was multiple years. So you started streaming before I got pregnant, though. So that would have been 2014. Well, that's when, no, 2017 is when,

or 2016 is when I started then. The dates are all, I literally, the date is based on an event in a game that I could go look up. I know exactly when. It's like May, the second week of May of 2016

had to be when I actually first started. Well, Tom was starting 2015, though. That would mean Wait Yeah It would have been 2015 Look at that quick This is what happens

When you get this old doing Twitch It's like everything blends together No this is So it would have been 14 No you're right She's right As is I'm sure as usual Yeah

Yeah So but you know I just The reason I'm asking about the streaming And the relationship thing Is I'm really curious If you guys sort of Because like here's Ben

Who's got a career right and then like streaming is something that's like recreational hobby like I'm really curious if you guys would be okay with sharing like what that conversation went like what the early days of streaming was like and if you guys sort of had a conversation about I'm assuming you don't work in IT anymore no no no not anymore and so just you know how did you guys as a as a couple kind of like make that transition and what did those conversations look like it actually was pretty easy and this is largely in part to the fact that that she has always been super accepting of who I am.

Because I used to braid in Wow, World Warcraft pretty religiously, like five nights a week, five hours a night after work. We would get, I'd get home from work and I'd, we'd have dinner or whatever. And then I'd sit down to raid for the evening and she would work on her photography stuff. We'd be in the same room. But it was, it was, she's never looked at me and said, you have to stop playing video games. Because she's always known that that's the biggest part of my life, the most important thing as far as like hobbies go. And so it was it was a no-brainer. She never tried to manipulate me or

forced me. She never gave me an ultimatum, quit gaming and hang out with me. You're too old for that. Because she knew she knew who she was dating, right? It wasn't like she was trying to mold me into a person that I wasn't. It's because she accepted who I was and that's who she loved. You were very upfront though. Like when we first started dating, you're like maybe it was after about two weeks of us kind of seeing each other. And you're like, hey, by the way, now that we're seeing each other more often, you might notice that like, I play video games a lot. He was raiding, like he said, in World of Warcraft. And it wasn't until maybe a few months after he started dating, he actually changed his raid schedule to start later in the evening. So by the time I would go

home or go to bed, he would start raid. And I was just like, well, obviously, if this is important to him, I'm not going to take it away because I don't want to, like, I like, I like him for who he is, not for who I want to turn him into. And he's making strides to accommodate me. So why would I be upset that he still, you know, plays games and stuff like that? So yeah, it's always been in our relationship that in the evenings, we hang out together, but like kind of doing our own thing. And then so even now, like in the evening, probably goes to bed, Ben goes downstairs and streams. I do my stuff. After he's done streaming, we watch a show and go to bed. kind of thing. So.

So I'd like to revise what I said earlier about the moment Ben fell in love. I think the moment he fell in love is when he moved his raid schedule to accommodate his girlfriend. Probably. Because that's not a sacrifice. For years, too. It's such a big sacrifice, Ben. To shift your rate schedule.

If you look in the grand scheme of things, maybe not. But I think for me, it was, yeah, it was a big hobby-related thing. it was a part of my life and I and we decided that it was it was best for everybody involved. Nobody else had a complaint that I was rating with. And so it's like this is the smartest thing to do, right? So, you know, Sam, I really, I'm hearing a lot here that sounds awesome. Like this is like, I don't know if you guys are pretending to be an awesome couple, but y'all, um, you all are doing a lot of the things that I think the unhappy couples who wind up in my office don't do.

So it sounds like there's like a mutual kind of respect. it also sounds like there's like accommodations of each other. It sounds like Sam never asked Ben to shift his raid schedule. It's just, it's been communication and transparency is super helpful. We have a rule especially with when it comes to streaming and gaming and stuff like that. But usually for the most part of our marriage in our relationship is we can come to each other and we, that person that we go to with like some kind of situation. So if Ben was streaming too much in the evening and I wanted to hang out with him,

I, in pre-agreement with each other, can go up to him and be like, I've not seeing you enough. We need to figure something out. And in that first conversation, the other person cannot come back defensive until we figure out what's going on. It doesn't always work. Sure. But we know going into that conversation that you just have to put it out there. And then knowing that you're not going to get attacked or anything.

right away. There might be an argument in a later conversation that gets drawn out for whatever, but that initial one, it's always been something for us, especially when it comes to streaming because it's his job now, but with gaming before. I'm sure what led you to changing your schedule is us having a conversation about how we were trying to find a night to hang out, and it just didn't work for a week, because when we first started dating, we were only seeing each other maybe two times a week because we were both busy with school and work and you were raiding and all that kind of stuff.

So we settled down that fairly early for most parts of our relationship is just put it out there kind of thing. Yeah, I'm hearing not just put it out there, but also that the person like so the person who puts it out there, the person who's receiving it also listens first as opposed to defending, attacking, you know, like like I think that's a really important part that like we try right yeah not trying to put

this front then we're perfect but at least we try um and and that seems really important you know i got to say sam i'm i'm a little bit surprised um and so i'd love to ask you one or two more questions because like you know i i wrapped up college um you know a year or two after it sounds like Ben started. So I think we're all, you know, in the same decade in terms of age. And so I would still be shocked. Like I still remember, I went on like one or two dates with this girl. And then I told her, I was like, hey, like, Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne is coming out. And I'm going to be like, M.I.A for two weeks. And then, you know, I never went out with her again. Because she was like, I don't know what this is. And so she's, as far as I can tell, is a completely normal woman.

And so I'm really surprised because I can't imagine many people like in the mid 2000s like having a boyfriend who was playing wow for five hours a night, five days a week. Like I think it's rare for people to be okay with that. Is that fair? I mean, it wasn't a common thing. And a lot of people look at, you know, look at gaming like it's a waste of time and stuff. But to be honest, like I was an only child until I was 10. And even then, my brother, who's born with physical mental disabilities. So it wasn't like I had a sibling or anything until later on in life with step-siblings.

So I'm totally fine spending time by myself. Got it. I like, I enjoy spending time with people. But even then, Ben and I have joked about it, that if we were like a regular couple where we spent every single night, seven nights a week together, we would probably, you know, end up getting annoyed with each other after a long, a long time. So when he was just like, hey, I do this stuff and I was like, oh, cool, it's on a schedule. Okay. Well, you know, I ran a corporate portrait studio around that time.

And I was like, I'll just change my schedule to kind of line up with yours if I can and call it a day. So I do my thing and you do your thing. And then we don't have to worry about trying to figure out when we can hang out with each other. Sounds really awesome. Yeah. The funny part, though, is like I was a super outdoorsy, hippie. kind of person. So we were definitely like,

I played video games growing up, but we definitely were learning from each other kind of different, different hobbies and stuff. That's awesome. And so it sounds like when you were when you were ready to become a full-time streamer, like I'm assuming that things sort of gradually picked up

and it was sort of like a stable shift or was it really like kind of rolling the dice? I would say it was pretty stable, a gradual increase until Fortnite happened and then everything kind of exploded in a way that kind of nobody expected. I mean, there's no way

you could go into it and be like, oh yeah, one day Fortnite's going to come out and my career is going to skyrocket and I'm going to I met Tyler Ninja and we became friends during PubG before Fortnite even happened and a bunch of people like it was wild. It was an unprecedented kind of thing

and actually that's where around that time is when she took a larger role on the business side of stuff for me because before Fortnite like my business email wasn't really inundated with a lot of stuff and then Fortnight happened popularity

absolutely skyrocketed and suddenly I was getting like waves of emails and requests to do things and and you know add opportunities all sorts of stuff and I needed somebody I can't I couldn't sit there and check my email the whole time so I that's where it was

She stepped into the role of being the manager for my job. So I don't even really look at my work email too much. She does a lot of it. And then we also have a management team on the back end that takes care of a lot of the coordination for contractual stuff, all that. But it was in the span of, I would say, like six months where it went from a pretty easily manageable thing for one person. And then it exploded.

And I needed to back up real quick. And she stepped up to the plate without missing a beat. Wow. Yeah, I don't know if you guys could tell from my, you know, when I added y'all as friends or when I messaged you and I was like, I was a little bit confused. It's because I'm like that and I don't understand what's happening. I just, I just show up. Your message, I was like, maybe this is the wrong one that I added. Yeah, no, I was like, oh, this is wonderful.

Nice to meet you. And I was like a little bit concerned. And then I was also like, oh, okay, baby. And so I'm the same way. And it's, you know, it's interesting because in my case, it sort of happened. almost slightly in reverse. So I was running Healthy Gamer for about a year and no one had heard of us. And then my wife took over and now people have heard of us.

Hooray. And so it's really interesting to hear like, how do you guys kind of manage? I mean, I don't even know how I would go about answering that question. If someone asked it to me. Any, you know, I was just curious, what's the experience been like working together? It is there. You have to separate. 8 Benjamin and Samantha

from Dr. Lupo and Mrs. Dr. Lupo that the relationships almost have to be different relationships because we'll even, we'll even remind the other person when we're about to talk about something for like streaming or whatever it is. By the way, this is between

me and my manager, not husband and wife right now. And that's the, we have to set the tone for the conversation. Otherwise, things I think can get kind of muddied if you're there are certain business opportunity. It's like, hey, you have a whole crap ton of viewers today. You should probably keep streaming for like another half hour or hour past when you would normally end. And the wife

side would say, no, you know, we have a schedule for reason, come upstairs. But then the manager side is like, yeah, you don't get this opportunity very often. So it's, it's a, it's a balancing act of what is, you know, which conversation you're having, either the business side or the non-business side. And sometimes we have to start the conversation or even mid-conversation. We have to stop and be like, who are you talking to right now? Because I might be coming to him as Sam and he might be coming to me as Dr. Lupo. And you can tell real quick in the conversation that we're not talking to the same person. So we have to be like, wait, which hat are we both putting on?

Because we both need to be in the same mindset for it. Yeah. So I'm noticing that there's some pretty clear boundary setting in terms of like, you know, what is this a business conversation or a personal conversation? Definitely. Yeah, I sometimes joke about this. You know, I think part of the fun is that this is the one situation where potentially sexual harassment between employees is acceptable. Good thing HR has never seen any stuff we've done to each other.

I mean, I am HR, so. True. So, you know. But so, and, and what, yeah, I. I'm going to just ask a couple more questions. Is that cool? So like how did you guys decide to have children or a kid? Sounds like you all have one.

Correct. You want to start? How do we decide? I can at least set the precedent. Out of the gate, I'm going to be honest. I know that I'm I play video games all day. I'm a man child. You know, there's only a certain amount of external focus that my brain has the capacity to give out.

And so I initially didn't want to. I just, I didn't, I didn't want kids to start with. And then I think things started to change when I was exposed more and more to, because she was a photographer. So she would work with like babies to take pictures and stuff like that. And being shown those things changed my opinion. Because it's, it's kind of incredible what a little human being can learn to do. And now that we have Charlie, I'm like, it's, it's like watching a,

a cloned version of me, so he grow up and, and being able to see the, see him experiencing things like Mario and, and all the games that I loved when I was little, when I was hit his age, watching someone else see those things and experiencing them for the first time is, I mean,

it's a pretty typical, stereotypical parent thing to do, but I'm living vicariously through him, seeing those things for the first time. It's absolutely amazing. Wow. And I've always wanted to be a, a parent, a mom.

Like I said, before, my brother was born with mental and physical disabilities when I was 10 and around 12, my mom kind of went MIA for a few years. So I was the mom for about 12 to 14-ish. And she, you know, she's back. She's great. Everything's all good. But I just always knew after taking care of my brother that I wanted to be a mom. even at 12, I was good at it.

And my mom did a daycare growing up. And then once I got into photography, I mean, a lot of those kids, I was just talking about this a couple days ago. My oldest or my longest running client is now 16, and I met her when she was one. And so it's just, it's watching all those kids grow up. And it's just something that I've always wanted to do. And I never wanted a big family, like one, maybe two if someone really pushed me. I think it's important to explain some of the other reasoning behind that with your brother.

Yeah. So I am potentially a carrier of my brother's genetic mental disorder. And we don't know like the exact name that he has because back then the testing was not there and available. Now I don't want to just go poke and prod him just so I can figure it out or not. So we tried with Charlie and Charlie's 100% good and golden. And so we got lucky with that. And so I never wanted a large family because there's always still that possibility that I can pass on if we have another son. But yeah, do you remember how you told me that you were ready to have kids?

No, I don't. You wrote me email. Oh, God. And this is one way that we use. to communicate to each other is, is, you know, what if we weren't living together for obviously a beginning of our relationship. But, uh, there was some nights like if something was really on our minds, we would just write it all out in an email and send it to the other person and be like, hey, I just send you an email. So before, yeah, before I get absolutely ridiculed for this for for eternity,

okay, it was one of the, it was the way that we, we decided was like best for just sometimes it's easier to get your thoughts out if you have time to write them down and stare at them for a little bit and consider the correct phrasing and then we send it along right it would instead of like a face-face conversation sometimes especially about something like that where even internally I'm like I don't know what the right thing to do is what the right what right thing to say is you you can muddy the waters real quick if you misspeak and then you have to back pedal and and blah blah blah you know so I so before I get people go in on me over this yeah I wrote an email because it was the right I I remember now because it was the easiest way to write out my thoughts and then look at my own thoughts

and see if that's like, is that what I really mean to say? Or is there a better way to phrase it so that it makes sense? Or even if that is, is that the way that you actually feel? Or is that something that you're just kind of feeling like you have to feel kind of thing, too? Yeah, I think, thanks for clarifying that. Because oddly enough, that's actually something I recommend to my patients is that, you know, a lot of times if we think about the most important communications, there are two things that we can never get back. One is time that's passed, and the second is the words that leave our mouth.

And so it's kind of interesting because if you really have something super important, you know, when you said, wrote you an email, I mean, I was imagining a one-liner, which is like, okay, let's have kids. Okay, thanks, bye. I mean, there were some that were like that. But we tweet us, but yeah, it was the- children go go go go go go go and then you know so so but what i what i'm hearing is it's it's not really so much an email as it was like a letter yeah right just in electronic format yeah that it was

you thought about it a lot you expressed a lot um i'm still a little bit surprised to be honest ben because i can't imagine that looking at pictures of babies and this is probably me just projecting because it's just my experience is like oh it wasn't just looking at of pictures. It was like, so she did her photography. When we got married, one of the things that I did is take on a job that I didn't necessarily want to provide enough money so that she could leave her. She quit her studio job so she could start her own business. That was one of the things that we did, but that I did because she had worked her butt off when I didn't have a job and trying to get to a stable place. And so when I had the opportunity to give back, I did that. But she ran her business out

of our house. And so I got to see in person these little tiny, snugly, you know, human loaves of bread is what they basically boil down to when they're, when they're that young. And that was one of the big things for me that helped that, I wouldn't say, I mean, helped. It's everybody's, ultimately the path that you take and whether you have kids or not is, is going to be individual for each person, right? My path isn't going to be different than somebody else's. But I definitely was one that was like, I don't want to have kids. And I started to see these. And I started to see see babies in person in a way that I hadn't before. Because she's so good with kids, man.

She's working with kids through photography studio and like, it's wild some of the stuff that I have learned from watching her work. That it opened up a different side of an infant to me that I didn't really expect, right? Because before seeing that, my exposure to them was so limited because I'm the youngest of four in my family. So I never, there were never any babies around. and all I knew is like that it's just going to cry a lot, it's going to poop,

I'm going to have to clean it up and feed it and then hopefully it's still not upset about something. But then she kind of, she changed my opinion on on pretty much all of it as a whole because yeah, there's that stuff. And as a parent, you end up with like poop on your fingernails

in a way you wouldn't expect, right, when you change your diapers and all that. But when you actually get to hold, if you have kids, You know what I'm talking about. It's almost an indescribable thing to see your, you know, your, your offspring slowly turn into a human being that can do things. It's crazy. Yeah, absolutely.

So I'm guessing that Sam, Ben, you knew that Sam wanted to have kids? I knew, yeah. And had you guys, had you all talked about it before? Was it sort of like, because when you said, like, I'm ready. So you send off the email. But like, was the assumption that Sam was already ready or wanted to have kids before that? So you were sort of like, you know, is like one green light and... Yeah, I don't think I ever felt like it was a waiting for me kind of thing.

I think it was more like a waiting for us to come to a mutual agreement kind of thing. Because I think she knew that I was not interested and I knew that she was interested. and it eventually we found our way to a mutual agreement and it was just not like she forced me or strong handed me and to give me your seed

it just eventually like I decided on my own that having a kid was the right idea there were definitely lots of conversations and stuff leading up to that letter being sent there were there were situations where you just flat out

said that you would never change your mind and obviously that was something that I had to sit and really think about if that's something that I'm okay with, you know, not being a mom. And so it taken a few years. I mean, we got pregnant five years after Charlie or after we got married. So we never really rushed into anything with it. And I was totally okay being an older parent as well. So I had Charlie when I was 30 when all my friends were having them when. and having their kids like when they were 23, 24 and stuff like that.

And I was totally fine with waiting if that's what it took. So it wasn't just like I knew from day one. And then I was just like, okay, but it was conversations that definitely led up to that letter being sent. And then even then, we still had plenty of conversations after that letter of like, okay. Now that I heard your side and you know my side, let's like push them together and make sure 100% that we're on the same page before we dive into this forever long thing. Okay. You want to actually, how about now? Because this is also very telling about where we are now when we have conversations about kids. Because she, so, so she made the one for us and did 99.9.9% of

the work. And now, you're going to do the second one? Well, please. If only. No, I, I have kind of changed gears to where I wouldn't be upset if we had another kid. And I would not be upset having another kid either, but it's not coming out of me. Yeah. That's one of the stipulations. But I definitely never saw myself as someone who was like, yeah, I could have a second one. And I think that it definitely helps seeing, like, we went to, we went over to my mom's house for Mother's Day this weekend. And I saw other family members there.

And one of my older brothers has three. and their youngest is adorable. And she's not a year yet. Almost one. Almost one. But they're typically pretty timid about interactions. And she came and climbed up on me and gave me a hug. And I about melted into a puddle.

It was, it's such a cool experience that I never thought I would be like, yeah, I'm on board. Let's go again. I'm ready. So, you know, Ben and Sam, I've been sort of thinking at the, since the beginning. of this conversation, if there's some way that I can be helpful. So when y'all came on today, I was really thinking that what y'all share is not really necessarily for your benefit. It's actually for like other people's benefit, you know, to share like a lot of interesting things about, you know, relationships, relationships with

streamers, relationships with people in gaming, you know, how do you kind of adapt? How do you decide to have kids? How do you raise kids? All that good stuff. But I'm wondering, but for most people that come on. I'm trying to help them with something, right? And I'm just curious whether there's something that I could be helpful with here in terms of just facilitate. It sounds like you guys are really solid communicators. But, you know, is this something that it, should I ask you all questions about this? And maybe we can try to have a conversation about it or whatever you think is going to be best. I'm fine. Well, I mean, I don't know about you, Benjamin, but you and I have these conversations. It's like,

you know, you're first dating somebody and you're laying in bed at night and you're like, I wonder what our life in the future would be like. And you start thinking about all that kind of stuff. And that's kind of like the stage where I feel like we both are. It's just like, you know, I wonder what a little girl version of us would look like. But at the same time, I'm like it, but it's not, again, it's not, I'm not doing that again. Yeah. I think ultimately it's mostly hyperbole of us just just, it's just saying it to say it. Because I mean, the way we are right now, I don't know if we could fit having another kid into, you know, the power trio that we currently have. Just be given the circumstances and how busy I am and how

much she works behind the scenes for us and taking care of boy all day and that kind of thing. So it's in this situation, I think it's more of just like a kind of a joking, poking fun at each other which is a thing that we do a lot. It's, I think one of my, we know how we have, we have conversations about love languages. I always tell her that one of my my main love languages is sarcasm because we messed with each other a lot behind the scenes. But it's just part of the, I think part of the dynamic.

And this is another one of those things because I know that she doesn't want to grow another child. And so I will sometimes if like if we're about to go to bed I'll tease her and put my hand on her stomach and tell her that I can feel the baby kicking and shit like that. Like we I poke fun of her a lot. I won't say we. I'll say me. I do it a lot.

Can I push y'all? Sure. I want to be pushed or you want to... So like I'm wondering whether Ben is doing his equivalent of grabbing your arm on the way out, right? So what I'm noticing is that Ben is respecting your boundary in terms of Sam saying like, I'm okay with having another kid theoretically. It's just not coming out of me. And yet Ben is also like, I wouldn't mind having another one, right?

So we've had this conversation about I'm totally 100% down with adopting. Yep. And that is something that Benjamin has expressed that he is not 100% sure if that's where he sits comfortable with. Yeah. So Sam, can I, do you mind if I ask a couple of questions about, you know, your, because I'm so easy to skirt to move into asshole territory here. But so. So I'm just, I'm just noticing that I think, you know, when when when when when says something like and I feel sort of comfortable pushing this because you guys clearly do

have such a strong marriage, you clearly do communicate really well. And so it's kind of hard because like you guys do 90% of what I teach. So now like in terms of what I'm trying to think about like can I help you all in some way? I think it's maybe actually like asking hard questions and bringing things to the surface. So Sam, can you help me understand? you know, how you came to the decision that you did not want to grow another human being? I just did. Okay. So when I imagined, when I imagined pregnancy before I got pregnant,

is basically the chest burster from alien. And so anytime that anybody's like pregnant and they want me to touch their belly and stuff like that, No, it freaks me out. I really did not enjoy a single, like long stretch of pregnancy. There was little sprinkles in there of like cool and everything. But I don't know, Benjamin, if you remember the first time that Charlie moved to my stomach and we sat there and watched it, I was like shaking freaking out because it's terrifying. Watching something move underneath your skin is terrifying. All of a sudden, you're like, oh, there's his elbow.

So on top of, I had a really bad first trimester. I have the whole thing potentially, you know, passing on what my brother has in the back of my mind on top of it. I just wasn't super comfortable mentally with, you know, having something growing inside of me. And I don't know if that's something that I can get over. I also, since Charlie was born, I've contracted chronic Lyme disease. and so I'm already at the point of being as tired as somebody can be without passing out. I can imagine adding in pregnancy tiredness on top of that. And I didn't enjoy the birth.

I didn't enjoy the afterwards. There's a reason why there's a chemical in women's brains that make you forget birthing because nobody would do that a second time if they really thought about it. Unless like they had the easiest pregnancies ever kind of thing. So that's where I am. What region of the, you guys are in the U.S.? Yep. We are in Nebraska.

Interesting. You guys get a lot of Lyme disease up there? Being in, being a photographer, you spend a ton of time out in the fields. Ah, dear ticks. Yep. So I specifically remember when I found a tick on me, and it wasn't until a few months after that, and, you know, years later, all the timing lined up. I go to see a doctor, and after almost, man, six months or so of testing of stuff,

she just told me I had the leftover part of a flu. And a year and a half after that, didn't go away and found a new doctor, got diagnosed, and there we go. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that. It's actually one of the most frustrating things to deal with that I've seen medically. It is very frustrating, but, you know, I've always. I've always had lots of, you know, ups and downs in my life that if I'm okay with the negative stuff happening because it always ends up leading me to where I currently am in my life.

Yeah, so, so Sam, you know, that makes perfect sense in terms of pregnancy is, is statistically the most dangerous thing that the average woman ever does in terms of disability, mortality. It is, it is like literally, it's, it's the most dangerous. part of your life statistically. You know, and and and and and so obviously if it, you know, if it felt awful like I'm kind of with you in terms, I mean, as much as I can be. And in terms of, you know, recognizing that my wife, she decided to go through it twice. But, you know, I think as you guys, I'm sure you all understand it's a very individual

decision just like having Charlie was like a really individual decision. It's not even like couple like even within a couple. So there's like individual individuality within a couple. And then the timing of when you decide to have a child and stuff like that, I mean, there's so much individuality there. The one thing, Sam, that I'm just a little bit concerned about. And this is where, you know, you can swat this aside is sometimes when I'm working with people who have a fear, the fear tends to manifest in a very irrefutable way. So like, for example, like I've worked with people. who have had, you know, one special needs child or like first and then decided to have a second one

or people who have had one healthy child and then discovered that there is like a genetic risk. It's a really challenging thing. It's kind of bizarre. But, you know, I'm just wondering whether a part of your mind, and this is where I feel like I'm going into asshole territory, but I'm just going to be transparent, whether a part of your mind because of that fear of what could happen is like, pointing to things that clearly like no one can blame you for. Right? So like, does that make sense? Yeah.

What do you think about that? I know that I'm a person that dwells on fears. Benjamin can attest to that a lot. That I don't want to say that I let fear control my life, but there's definitely certain types of fears that I have a hard time. you know, facing and letting go of, snakes.

And, it's because they don't let go of you. You're not helping. You're not helping. That's an experience in kindergarten, okay, like with a big one. So I don't know.

I mean, if, if Ben came to me in the same seriousness as writing that letter and said, I would love to have a second child with you. And I would love it to be between just me and you, then it would be a, okay, let's sit down, let's figure out

what we can do to make things better for me, you know, if we can ahead of time. Now that we know, now that we know potentially how I react to pregnancy and stuff like that. But as far as like having a second child added to our family, I'm 100% on board when we get to that serious point of conversation of sure, let's have a second child. But it again, then you're not next to me, Benjamin, but I'm staring at you. If you ever came to me and you're just like, yes, if we have a second child and I want one, it, it, I would love for it to be between me and you only, then yeah, I'm not going to be like, no, definitely not. But in this moment where I feel like we aren't, we're more on the like the hypothetical, it would be

cool, joking kind of situation of having a child, then yeah, I'm going to stand my ground if I'm not wanting to birth another child. I want to be clear too. It's not like with the

having one that is biologically bolivars versus adoption, I have no issue with adoption. I think adoption is wonderful. I think it's an amazing thing that you can find people that choose to love someone as their own versus

there are some biological relationships, obviously, that are not great, that you have abusive parents and stuff like that. So adoption is like adoption is one of the most beautiful things. I think that we as human beings have decided to do. I just, I just, it's not like a approval or disapproval for me. It's more of a, I just haven't spent the time to think about if that's the way that I would want to go, if we ever got to the point where we want a second kid. We stumped.

Oh, no. No, no, no. I'm not stumped. quite the opposite. I'm just trying to figure out how far I want to go. So this is probably further than we've had as a conversation on the serious side of things about this ever. Sam, can you tell me what growing up was like with your younger brother? Sometimes I wish he wasn't there.

Just because my parents divorced right after he was born. Mom bounced. It was really difficult. He was in and out of hospital. for his first five years, do with surgeries and stuff like that. And then his mental health or mental disability on top of it.

But I love him to death. I told my parents the first week that he was born that when they can't take care of him, that I will. And I've stuck to that. And I'm getting all the two yikes. I love my brother so much. I've broken up relationships

with people that couldn't handle him. Ben charged in, head, first with my brother and has agreed from day one of meeting him that he will one day be our responsibility. Yeah, I mean, obviously it's difficult when your, when your siblings 10 years apart, but then on top of it, you know, a parent is gone. You're going through your own change as a preteen and, you know, then you have a baby to take care of too. Obviously, that's rough. So I'm just going to go for it.

So I'm going to talk now. Okay. I'm going to use words like imagine. So like here's what I'm thinking. If I put myself in your shoes, Sam, you know, like you said, you love your brother a lot. And it can be kind of confusing because you can love him and you can also like sort of, you can have thoughts that you wish she was never there. Right? and you can see like what he did.

I mean, unclear whether he's, I don't think he split up your parents, but, you know, it's, it's an additional stress. So a lot of times what happens is when a special needs child enters a family, it just exposes the weaknesses that are already there, right? It's an additional pressure. It sounds like you really stepped up in an amazing way between the ages of 12 and 14. And I would guess that you don't regret that for a second. and it sucked. And so, you know, I'm kind of hearing the same thing about pregnancy. Because I'm sure you don't regret it, but it was awful and you would never want to do it again.

Makes perfect sense, right? I'm not even having been pregnant, I can completely get behind you there. And at the same time, I wonder if, you know, as someone who does sort of have fears kind of like, hang out in the back of your mind. I mean, you have to, I guess I shouldn't say that, but I can't imagine a world in which you haven't had a thought about like what you're signing your son up for if you do have a second biological child. What you're signing, like, whether you're essentially repeating history and like what

are you signing Charlie up for and what kind of pressure isn't going to put on you guys? and whether that sort of holds you back. I feel like Ben and I are stronger than when my parents or my parents from the age of about six until I was about 12 would be separated back together. And, you know, I feel like my brother was probably kind of that one last ditch effort, which obviously very rarely works to save a marriage. And so, yeah, they lived a part. part, my dad lived in the basement. They were back together and everything was fine. And the year later, my mom would move out this time and so on and so forth. So definitely for sure. My brother was the breaking point of them realizing that it just isn't working. Yeah. And do you ever think about what it would mean for Charlie if you guys, oh, my camera just, oh, there we go. Do you ever think about what it would mean for Charlie if you guys did have a special needs child? Yeah, for sure. it would suck, especially because he's younger.

I mean, at 10, I was able to kind of grasp the idea of what my future was going to be like. But let's say I get pregnant next month, and so he'll be six by the time a baby gets here. And you won't, especially with my brother's disability, we don't know if we didn't notice it earlier because we were more focused on the physical disability than the mental. but we didn't know about my brother's mental disability until he was about a year and a half old because he was already so delayed with his physical disability, we just kind of attributed everything to that

until all of a sudden we realized that he's not talking. So, yeah, I mean, of course I worry that it would make Charlie's life harder. And it's obviously already hard as an only child to have a sibling come in sometimes. at the beginning. And I just think that not that my brother has like a bad life at all.

But if there's other kids out there that are already here and already have a potentially, you know, not so great life because they're in the adoption system or foster system, whatever, I feel like I could at least save them. maybe, um, kind of thing. So yeah, I'm sort of hearing like a, you know, having a biological child comes with particular risks.

And because I, Sam, I know it sounds kind of weird, but, you know, I know pregnancy is sort of very uncomfortable and stuff, but just hearing you, getting to know you a little bit. Like I find it hard to believe that, and this may be me being an asshole. Like, I think you've demonstrated so much strength, so much. resilience that I just find myself, I don't know why, maybe this means I'm mean or something, but like I find myself being a little bit surprised that that's what would hold you back, like physical discomfort, like hold you back. You know, maybe I don't know you that well, but, you know.

I don't know. I mean, especially if we have a girl, like if we have a girl, then we're golden because women only pass this disorder on to their sons. Very rarely do they, does it show up in a female? Yeah. But even then, like as soon as we found out that we were having. having a boy, both Ben and I are anxiety, like we were excited, but our anxiety went up and we're like, oh, okay, well, I mean, now what? Now do we need to start doing research? What kind of, and we did

the extra tests and stuff like that beforehand to make sure things were good, but just the anxiety of going up to that appointment and finding out if we were having her a boy or a girl for both of us, if I remember correctly, it was very high. We were very excited, you know, super stoked talking about the whole week up, but walking in there, that was kind of. kind of like our moment of do we need to, do we need to potentially change and learn a lot of stuff in this very moment? Or are we going to be okay if we have a girl kind of thing? So it sounds like you guys were aware that there was a risk of this when you had your first kid.

Correct. Yep. And how did you, how did you guys manage that? Lots of anxiety. leaving up I think it was around six months with Charlie that we that it was very obvious

that there was you know nothing present and even I remember after Charlie was born there was a couple times that Ben had pulled me aside and he was just like

do you recognize anything and Charlie that you remember from your brother just you know randomly every few months or whatever leading up until we

we realized that, you know, we're good to go. So a lot of anxiety. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. You know, and Ben, can, am I, have I stepped out a line yet? No, I'll yell at you if you do, don't worry. Yeah, I'm, I'm just, I'm not kidding. I'm relying on you to do that, okay?

This is stuff that she's openly talked about with other people and that we've talked about. like so with with her brother um one of the things that early in our relationship that i wanted to establish and like we wrote our own vows for our wedding and i included in there that that her brother i keep i'm trying to avoid saying names just okay um sure but uh i i made sure that she knew that i was going to be supportive for her brother and provide if if it came time to provide somewhere for him to live i was there ready to go um but like we i've done a bunch of charity stuff with my channel And the first two charity streams we ever did were for the National Fragile X Foundation, which is similar. Fragile X is what her brother has or something similar to it.

It was just, it was such an important thing for me to make sure that she understood because obviously it was like such a main piece of her life growing up. It was a focus around potentially why her parents split up. And it was one of the most difficult times of her life having to raise her brother. And like, that's important to her. and she's important to me, so I wanted to make sure that she knew that I was on board, no matter what ended up happening, whether we had to, you know, take her brother on as part of our life, eventually, whether it was earlier or later, that I was there ready to go.

And what you're saying, Sam makes a ton of sense. So can I just share what I kind of heard from you? And I'm going to inject a little bit of my own, I'm going to fill in some of the gaps in my mind. So let me know if those are like, you know, could be completely off. So like, I can't imagine I mean, you guys didn't really know, right? Like, you all rolled the dice once. And you guys hit the jackpot with Charlie

in every way shape of the point. And I can imagine that like, you know, rolling the dice once was bad enough. And if you guys like win, right? Like if I bought GMB at 50 cents and it rose to 300 and I decided to sell, you know? And I like, like, and then GMB like bobbs down again. Like I don't even know if I want to get back on that roller coaster.

you know, I won once. It's clearly enough for me to retire on, right? Like, you know, it sounds like y'all are happy and you guys have an amazing son. And there's a part that's like, why even bother? And then there's also like this sort of like two birds with one stone thing, right? Because there are kids out there who don't have such a good life. And, you know, if you guys decide that you guys have the bandwidth for another kid, you can sort of like give a child who doesn't have a promising life.

like what sounds to me to be, unless you guys are really just super sociopathic and I miss something completely. A loving home, right? With like two parents who like really care about their, their child a lot, their children a lot, two parents who communicate a lot, two parents who strive really hard to be good parents. And there's already a kid out there who doesn't have that. So, you know, why go back, you know, why go back to the gambling table when you know, there's there's a kid out there who may need your love and already exists. How is that for a summary? I would say, you can hear the vacuum cleaner our cleaning companies just finishing up.

I mean, for me, that that's 100%, like especially with, there's been a few times in taking photos and stuff like that that I've had to call CPS because, you know, you, a kid isn't smiling and their dad takes him into the bathroom and you can hear him hitting the child. Like, sorry, that flashback. I'm having to call the cops on them and making a huge scene, but got the kid out of there. There's kids that are already hurting. I want to be able to help him. Yeah.

But I'm also totally fine being the three musketeers, too. He is a handful sometimes. Let's not pretend that he had died. I think every kid, because he's a little clone of me. Let's remember the Three Musketeers had D'Artagnan, right? Right. I know we really remember. Yeah, true, true.

If there's ever an analogy that says that you guys should adopt, it's the Three Musketeers. That reference is basically like, there's the three of us, and then there's a rando from the outside that we're bringing in. It's like that. You know, younger, different, you know. And it's also interesting because what I'm hearing from, if you really think about it, like, Ben has, it seems like a lot of Ben's inspiration to have a child actually came from a child that wasn't his own, right? Like, I remember still just for myself, like, being really uninterested in children. Like, when I was doing pediatrics and stuff, and Obi-Gyne, like, those were probably my two least favorite rotations in medical. school. And like with kids, I just didn't, you know, I didn't really get them. Like, I was good with kids,

but I just had no, you know, I didn't think they were particularly cute. I thought they were. And then like, once I had a kid, it's like some switch flipped in my brain. And, and I, personally, at least, like, you know, my wife and I routinely talk about, like, you know, when we'll see, like, you know, we visited a friend yesterday and they have a young kid. And just holding, like, you guys know the denseness of a baby. Yeah. How, like, you know, they stay the same weight. but they just stretch out. And so, like, feeling that denseness, it's one of the things that I really like,

you know, it's just a physical sensation that's associated with a lot of good emotion for me, just like holding like a baby. And then we'll do it sometimes. And then, like, we had this brief conversation. It was like, one exchange. It was like, do you want to have another one? And I was like, nope, I'm good.

And then she's like, yep, me too. I think going through it twice. I mean, there are times where we lose our minds a little bit and we think about it, but I think we're sad. I think there's every parent there's certain nights where you crash into bed at the end of the night and you like each other and you're like, why the hell did we decide to do this in the first? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It feels to me like this is tied up a little bit. I don't, how do you all feel about that? I think that's true. I mean, this is one of those things that we've talked about at least semi regularly.

over the last multiple years of being together of like what direction do we are we going to go if we ever go one way or another and it's especially with how busy we are right now because I never do you can't imagine that this is going to be your job like I never I especially because the beginning I got into streaming as like a side thing right it was never really intended to be my full-time gig and then suddenly here we are I I think it's something that we've had a pin in just just kind of sitting aside for a while and it doesn't really surprise me if if this is the way it continues to go for a while too plus the dot we don't tend to jump into anything like oh yeah yeah we're we tend to be pretty practical when it comes to doing most things in our life i'm not impulsive

i sit in my basement and play video games all day this is not it's you know it's not like hey let's just have a kid today for fun it's that's not the kind of that's not the kind of decision making you're going to find here yeah you don't just randomly change your schedule just for any random any random trick you thank you you have to align to 39 other people and shift them two hours

into the future now before anybody goes after that one this was like a I need to change what I'm doing just so everybody knows and then people jumped on board with that it wasn't like you change or go after yourself kind of thing so I was I try not to pressure

people to do stuff they don't want to do I'm sure that you know interacting with the wow guild quite so intensely actually probably actually helped you in your marriage to be honest because i i find that there's a lot of communication that has to happen this is a successful wow guild i think it got me ready to to be a father too because the amount of parenting you feel like you have to do sometimes the amount of yelling that would come out of that room when you were raiding sometimes especially when you became raid leader because you didn't start out as a raid leader you you eventually came into being like the full guild leader and stuff like

that too. Like the amount of yelling, all the memes that came out of them. There was a lot of parenting practice. He's adopted many an orphan over the internet. Yeah, exactly. One thing that I do want to say, Sam, just, you know, this isn't something we have to get into now, but I would actually recommend against it. But something that I just sort of like want to mention to you is I've worked with a lot of people with chronic Lyme. And, you know, we're not entirely. sure what chronic Lyme is. Do you guys want to explain just for the audience? Like if you feel comfortable, I mean, you guys have already mentioned it, but can you explain to people like what your understanding of what chronic Lyme is? As far as like how it feels and stuff or just what is it?

Basically, it tick bites you and then you never remember scientific words. Basically, you become sick with the what's inside the tick. You can usually try. treat it right away with antibiotics and most people are good to go. But if it's caught later, it kind of spreads and hides throughout your body. And you can either like just blast yourself with antibiotics nonstop and trying to see if you can catch it all or with the doctor that I will go with. We are just now kind of treating the symptoms. Symptoms are different for everybody, which makes it very difficult to diagnose. It's also just very difficult to diagnose in the first place for the type of illness that it is.

And who knows? Maybe my doctor diagnosed me incorrectly too. But for me, it's a lot of joint and muscle pain and a lot of fatigue. Before I got on my medication, which kind of helps me a little bit, but I was taking anywhere between three to five naps a day, going between 30 minutes to two hours and the thick of it. And now I usually need to take

one 30 to 40 minute nap a day. If I don't get it, then I just become really cranky. But if I try to think back to what tired was to me because my first doctor just told me I was tired because I had a kid. And if I think back to like the time, tiredness that I feel right now, and it's been four hours since I took my medicine this morning, uh, I could go to sleep and sleep for a whole night's worth of rest right now. Wow. Um, and be

100% okay with that. Uh, but I can't, like I can't, you know, sleep all day long. So I just push through it. The, the one thing I would say, Sam, so it's kind of weird, but I'd say probably like historically five percent of people in my practice have had chronic Lyme. And, And I do a lot of work that's sort of like in complementary and alternative medicine. And what I've actually found is that there's some weird immune stuff. I don't really know what's going on with chronic Lyme and they'll have their Lyme doctors. But I have seen a lot of like clinical improvement through things like psychotherapy. Now, a lot of people will think that if psychotherapy helps chronic Lyme, does that mean that it's all in your head?

I really don't think so. Because like you're saying, there are physical symptoms that are not really psychological, right? it's like very clearly something physical is going on. But we do know, for example, that meditation improves, like, immune markers and things like rheumatoid arthritis, in lupus, other autoimmune or, like, chronic, like, immune or infectious states. And so I don't know exactly how this works, but just having, you know, talk to you for a little bit, there's, like, there's actually a lot of emotion, like, right under the surface that I think you carry with you.

you kind of mention that, you know, fears, they don't rent in your mind. They buy and they pay mortgages. And so interestingly enough, like, I've seen some benefit from that. And I was just going to say it may be something that you want to, like, you could think about just in terms of like, if I tend to think about the body as like a body and mind as a unit, right? And if you're holding on, if your mind is trying to process or holding on to like negative emotion, it just doesn't quite have the ram to deal with. you know, the physical stuff. Like, you can't do both. If you think about, you know, stress and pregnancy, like you just can't, you can't,

you can be stressed out or you can be pregnant. You can't be both because that's like all your body and your mind can handle. Yeah. Just something to think about that, you know, I've seen a lot of people find some benefit. It doesn't mean that it's psychological in origin. I really don't think it is. But, you know, just letting go. Because I can imagine you also feel like guilty for having some of those thoughts that you

had about your brother in the past because you do love him so much. and like I found that you know they're way you know you can let those you can you can evict those fears if you know try if you're lucky and if you give it a shot so just something to think about I hope that wasn't out of line no definitely I definitely felt like a lot of relief I've done yoga on and off and meditation on and off throughout my life but in the past four years I've definitely like really dug into it and sometimes like that's all I need is just like 10, 50 minutes to just go if I get overwhelmed because I'm so tired of things. I just need to step away and, you know, Zen for a minute. Yeah, absolutely. So I noticed that we were supposed to talk about parenting today.

And I don't think we quite got there. How do you all feel about that? If this is the way you wanted to go, then that's, I mean, that's fine with me. I think this is an opportunity for you to ask away if there's anything related to what we do and with Charlie and all that. I mean, now's the time, right? Sure. I mean, how do y'all feel? I mean, this is what? I've always been open to talking about feelings.

Like, I never found it useful to, you know, hide feelings or anything like that. So talking about all of that with pregnancy and everything and babies and cool. Like, I think it's definitely something. towards that Ben and I will sit down and kind of probably go over like the the notes version of of everything together so Ben do you do you want to talk about Charlie I can talk about Charlie all day yeah so let's just I'm I'm a little bit curious maybe we can just kind of get like a short version but like so if you don't mind me out you know don't share any information that yeah is it but like ballpark of how old he is

He is five and a half. He's five now. Okay. And so what's it like, you know, being a streamer, running a streaming business and having a kid? He is the smartest little human being I think I've ever met. And that ends up being really, really good. He's reading at like first, second grade level already. He's working on math stuff.

He can articulate himself really well. He speaks clearly. he the other side that though is like he is wildly inquisitive about everything so sometimes so i'm in my studio right now and sam will bring me coffee or lunch or whatever because i obviously with streaming you have to be engaged with your chat the entire time or doing something they don't like you just sitting there doing nothing um and so he'll come down with her but it's like a 10 minute process of him going through every little shiny because i got a lot of toys in this room it's like I don't blame him at all.

It's like a shiny lights friggin playground of all sorts of stuff to look at and mess with that he's never messed with before because it sits down here. But that spreads to so many other aspects of our conversation, our engagement with him is like nonstop questioning of everything. And I know that's part of like being five and trying to get a handle of the social back and forth.

Like at that age, obviously he doesn't know all social cues. He doesn't know when is appropriate or not appropriate to talk. He doesn't know about, like we're working on raising our hand right now to get to get a question in or like, hey, mommy, hey, daddy. I have something to say. But he's he's so, he's almost like smart to a to a point of frustration for me because he's a lot like me and that it's like a, I want to absorb all the knowledge that I possibly can. even for him if it's like to a point of inconvenience for someone else.

He's like, now's the time to answer this question, mommy or daddy, let's talk about what this thing is that I want to know about. Yeah, it's interesting. You know, you're, you talk about his intelligence is a double-edged sword almost. Oh, yeah. I mean, almost.

I know that I shouldn't look at it like that because I would, I would. No, you absolutely should. You think so? Absolutely. So I had a supervisor who blew my mind one day. So like, I think we see this a lot in, you know, the gaming community. She once told me something that she said that a gifted child is actually a special needs child.

Because if you really think about it, they actually have needs that the average child may not have, right? And when we think about special needs, we tend to think about it sort of like in a negative capacity in terms of like inability to do things. but I mean I've seen this time and time and time again with like you know I was sort of this way where like I was smart you know growing up and I was kind of like a little bit precocious and and like I struggled a lot kind of because of that and we see this a lot with sort of like these burnt out like gifted kids right like you're gifted and that comes with a whole pile of stuff like expectations capabilities frustration some of the worst situations situations capabilities frustration some of the worst situations that I've ever seen are when you have a kid who's like very gifted and has a high IQ, but also has something like bad ADHD or bad anxiety. And then they can feel like really, really stupid, right? They can feel a lot of shame and stuff like that. So I think that, you know, it's kind of interesting because I would absolutely, you know,

view almost everything about your kid as a double-edged sword. And that any capability can be like healthy in one circumstance and also like creates its own challenges. and needs and another. But I'm sure you guys know that. Yeah. It first came, like, really stuck in my head that he is, you know, everybody says that their kid is the cutest and the smartest and stuff like that. So this is mom bragging right now, that the first hit when we were going to the library

and he started asking about chapter books at five years old. And now he doesn't read, you know, like the regular small print chapter books, but he has the early reader books of like eight chapters or so, and he reads it all in the night. And he's just like, all right, where's the next one? And I was like, okay, like, I liked reading when I was a kid, but not like this. And he just wants to absorb all the knowledge or watch so many YouTube videos about how to fix flat tires because he wants to just know how to fix flat.

He's obsessed with flat tires. And so he wants to know just in case somebody gets a flat tire. He wants to be the one to be able to help people. Fix the flat tire. He wants to be a scientist. That YouTube guy that he was watching. What was that? What's the YouTube channel that he was watching?

Chris Fix. Chris Fix. This dude does like POV of like fixing car parts and stuff like that. And it's like he could he could watch it for an entire day and know all about this stuff in the inside of a car. I'm like he's going to know more about cars than I do. In like you give him a week. He'll have it down pat. Yeah.

I mean, I'm kind of I'm kind of. wondering whether he was like watching when he saw his dad come to his mom's rescue when her car wasn't working and when he knows the past of the Chad begins with fixing the flat tire. He just has such lofty goals for being a kid. He wants to be an engineer and a scientist. We just learned about what a roboticist is. So now he wants to be a roboticist and he wants to make robots that was the robot he wants to make for St. Jude because he do a little. a lot of work for St. Jude, so he's very aware of what goes on there as he wants to make a robot, that if a kid doesn't want to go to their appointment, the robot will go pick up the kid

and bring him to their appointment. It's great. Yeah. My older kid is somewhere between wanting to be a princess, an artist, and a doctor. The younger kid is trying to decide what kind of demon she wants to be. I want to be her when I grow up. Because like when they're playing pretend, like one of them is like, I'm a princess or a queen. The other one's like, I'm a monster.

It's interesting. They're very different. Yeah. So any kind of like, you know, it sounds like Charlie's an amazing kid. It sounds like you guys are kind of treating him. You know, you're not using a standard playbook. I think you guys are kind of developed, like writing the playbook as you go. I'm really hearing that from y'all.

Is that fair to say? Yeah, I think so. And anything, you know, anything that you would say to, you know, streamers or people kind of thinking about having kids in terms of like how to make it work well, right? Because like most streamers, I mean, like I know, you know, Ben and I and we're not going to comment on Sam's age because I'm sure she's very young because she's quite. That's ridiculous. I don't believe it. Good man.

You know, so I've walked the tightrope as well, my friend. But I think streamers, you know, are getting older. I think we work with a fair number of streamers that are, you know, concerned about, like, how to find, like, a healthy relationship and they're thinking about having kids and stuff like that. I mean, what would you say to people who are sort of, like, on the fence or trying to figure out how to do it? I think that everybody's journey is going to end up being different. and it's going to be a personal thing that leads them one way or another. In fact, if anything, there's a strong parallel between being a parent and being a streamer

and that people can write, people give advice and write all sorts of books about how to do it and how to make it and how to raise your kid and all that. But there are so many different one-off scenarios, instances of every single person, every kid, every stream being different. Like, you almost, you can gather so much information and it's still not going to give you the right answer. And so having, having, have, being able to like roll with the punches is probably the most important thing. For me, that's that looking at it, looking back at it now, it's like as Charlie has developed as a

kid and as my career has grown and changed over time, it's like what, what works one day, might not work the next day. And you just got to be okay with that and figure out what the next thing is going to be to continue to grow in the right way. Well said. Same. Anything you want to add to that? I would definitely say that there's never a good time to have a kid. Like, you know, everyone's just like, you know, we're going to wait until we have this and we do this and we do that and yada, yada, yada. You're never going to find an opportunity where you're like, everything's lined up perfectly.

Let's have a child now kind of thing. And that and also kind of adding on to Ben is that you need to be okay with things constantly changing. and especially with like parents that want to stream and they start out kind of just like part time but they love it and they want to do it so much that they want to go full time that they don't really kind of think too much of the back end like they think that they're going to make enough money and then they end up struggling and it ends up you know harming their family because they can't pay their bills or whatever and then the parents mental health is low.

so then they start getting more frustrated and then they take it out on their kids without really realizing it and stuff. And I think especially with being a parent first and then going into streaming, you really need to not put your dreams aside. Not saying that because you can do all the things you want to as a parent and stuff too.

But definitely keeping the whole family in mind. You got to have a plan. Yeah. Yeah, when you have a backup plan. We had a backup plan. I mean, when Ben started and when he jumped from working in his corporate job to working in streaming only, we had a backup plan that if he went below a certain number within the first six months, he was going to get a part-time job somewhere to supplement it. When I jumped from my corporate studio job to starting my own business, we made an agreement that I would have a three-year part-time job just to make sure that I could supplement with everything. The day I hit three years at that part-time job, I bounced.

And thankfully for Ben, it only went up from there for him. But we made a plan and we put a timeline on it. And it's not just if we can't afford food, then I'll do this. It's like, you know, if you're going to do this, have steps of where you feel like you can be in what is plausible and feasible for your family. Yeah, beautifully put. I mean, I think I'm really hearing you guys sort of say like, you know, planning for eventualities and planning contingencies. Like, you know, it's fine to chase your dreams, but do so in a practical manner.

I think too often we kind of think about, oh, like, you know, like, I mean, we do a lot of work with parents and kids, but these are kids that, you know, maybe have a video game addiction or I think really the primary problem is communication, but. And, you know, the kid will come to the parent. We'll say, like, oh, you know, I want to go pro. And then, like, they feel like their parent is not supportive. And sometimes they're not supportive, but I think there's just a very practical, you know, you've got to plan for it. I know we were the same way. So when I was starting Healthy Gamer, I sort of scaled back on my day job, but I would literally work like nights and weekends to like support the family.

And, you know, that's just sort of like what we had to do because we had to make ends meet. Yep. And so you've got to do what you got to do if it's working part time on the side for three years and then bouncing. And then like I still remember like, you know, quitting from. my nights and weekends job because that was like time away from my family that that was a high price to pay but you know we felt like it was the right thing to do and it feels good for us is we always remember that everything is a season like with when ben was working basically full time at his corporate job and full time streaming on nights and weekends we knew that in order for

it to be possible that's just what it needed to be and it wasn't going to be forever yeah because we were both going to put our heads down and work our ass off to make it work. And then it was, and then it got to a point where, you know, he was able to just do one thing. And then he had more time again. So. Awesome.

Yeah. I thank you guys so much for kind of sharing some of your perspectives, some of your experience. You know, I know I've asked you for permission a thousand times, whether I pushed too hard. I'm glad you guys, you know,

feel like I didn't overstep. I think it was, you know, I think it's an important conversation to have. It's really fascinating to hear how you guys have gotten to where you are. Sounds like y'all are just, maybe not just getting started, but in the midgame. You know, because you all have been together now for 14 years. I'm saying, that's still just getting started. Holy question. No, no, no, no. Please, they were at least halfway through the movie, right? Yeah, no, I think, I think it's squarely in the midgame. Like, most people that we interview on stream are like in the early game, you guys sound like you're in the

midgame. You know, where it's like y'all are high level now. You've got some decent items. You know, you're like, you're level 45 or maybe like a 55 approaching endgame content. And that's where you guys are. You know, you're not like hanging around in Azaroth. It's, it's, uh, don't trash shock Azaroth, man. I got a lot of good memories there.

Okay. Benjamin, I'm only just thinking of Gloomhaven now that he's saying that. Yeah, if you're looking for a punishing tabletop game, that's a good one. Do you guys like board games? Love them. Yeah. Does Charlie like board games? Yes.

We have a, we have two shelves of kids slash family board games in two shelves of adult board games. Any recommendations for five-year-olds? Oh gosh. Is red light green light? Red light green light's a great one. So good. It's so fun. And Ian, what's the squirrel one?

Sneaky, snacky squirrel. Is that one. I'm trying to think. Charlie loves the ticket to ride juniors. We liked Monopoly Jr. Was a good one as well. He loves any of the card games like old made and crazy AIDS. Man, that kid is good at Crazy Aets.

He beats me all the time. I refuse to play Connectful with him because he beats me all the time. Last kind of random question, how do you all feel about arranged marriage contracts? Hello? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I was like, where is this coming? I'm okay with introducing my son to somebody and letting them design. We could have a conversation.

I'll get my lawyer involved. Fantastic. No, it sounds like he's a wonderful kid. Yeah, I think, you know, there's a, I started playing one game that my five and a half year old really likes, which is loot. You guys heard of this? I don't think I have, no. So, so it's, it's, I mean, I think Charlie will be fine for it. So I think it's actually for like eight-year-olds or 10-year-olds or whatever, but, you know, if you're just playing Connect 4 and stuff, it's a cool game.

And, you know, I'll send you guys like a link or whatever. But it's like you get, you know, I think y'all will like it. But, yeah, I think thank you guys very much for coming on. From my perspective, I, you know, I feel like we're at a kind of decent stopping point. But I want to give you all a chance to ask questions if you guys have questions for me or, you know, anything that you feel like we should talk about more. Samantha? I don't know. I don't think I have any other questions.

I think it's been a long time since either of us had an opportunity to just talk to somebody about our relationship and being, especially being a parent, which is crazy to think that he's literally almost six and have never really had a chance to sit down with somebody and say, hey, here's my thoughts on what it's like being a parent. so I guess I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it because it is it is kind of relieving especially like talking about how smarty is and how frustrating it can be and what it's like being a parent to a kid that's that age that wants to absorb all the knowledge but also seems to just not listen to you sometimes. He's flat out told us that he hears us every time he just chooses not to answer. He's such a little shit sometimes when it comes to that. But it's, but like, that's just, I think it's part of rolling with those punches and figuring out how to work with that without ripping all your hair out, you know? You know, Ben, one kind of quick response to that is I feel like I actually haven't given you the opportunity to really have that conversation in depth for which I apologize. Because I think we talked a lot more about y'all's relationship. And if, you know, if there's some way that I can be helpful to you down the road, one thing that, just as a random aside, like one thing that I've come to appreciate is,

is that my kids have a different Ayurvedic Dosha, which I don't know if you guys have ever heard about this, but in traditional Indian medicine, they do a lot of, like, cognitive fingerprinting would be the best way that I would put it. So, you know, each person is different, but depending on their, like, cognitive nature, so, for example, Sam has a tendency to hold on to things, right?

Like, it's neither good nor bad. I mean, it's just she has the capacity to hold on. So she holds on to things that will make her more, resilient and she will hold on to negative feelings the same way. And so there are some things that I've really found that are like really have been helpful for raising my kids once I sort of understand what their cognitive fingerprint is. Like the your child is intelligent and defined right. He's going to do things his way. And like so how do you like sort of recognizing that there are certain attributes.

So like like in in Ayurveda that sounds like he actually is a Vata. though, which means that his primary, like, cognitive elements are wind and fire. So he picks things up quickly. He gets kind of focused on them. So he's kind of like fire, like he'll burn in a straight line if he needs to. But then he'll also kind of change direction. I'm not getting the sense that he does hold on to things. I would also say that, like, I know this sounds weird because I've never seen your kid before,

but I'd say that he has Ben's nose probably doesn't have the roundness of Sam's face He's my cheeks He has these Oh he does have Okay He has Ben's fate I gave him my eyes and cheeks

And that's it Yeah so there are a lot of interesting things So it turns out the genetics Actually correlate between physical characteristics So if you look at people who have a wind type mind That that if you take a thousand people with wind type minds And a thousand people with fire type minds And you look at their genetic alleles

that the thousand people with wind type minds actually share common genes and that fire type minds share common genes as well because it sounds like Charlie is a lot like my younger daughter in terms of just temperament and how quickly she picks up how quickly he picks up things and stuff like that. And so I'm just I'm kind of thinking, you know, we didn't really get a chance to talk about it too much and I'm not sure exactly what to do about that at this point.

But maybe, you know, if you guys have other questions or whatever or y'all ever want to come back on and actually talk about Charlie and what it's like, you know, because I kind of steered things towards y'all as opposed to him. I just want to toss that out there. I think I would be down for something like that, yeah, because it is one of those. We've gone along on this journey, kind of just the two of us with the expertise we have in the back end, especially Samantha way more than myself with the experience with kids because of her previous jobs and her experience with her brother knows a lot more about what,

working with kids is like compared to my experience is basically just boy and that's it um but it's it's definitely an experience that i think has been it's been 99% positive and there's also that that that portion that small bit that's like man i just want to rip my damn hair out sometimes because it's like it like she said uh he he he openly admits that he hears us and sometimes just ignores and you know that gift of the guy talking to the brick wall, I feel that. Sometimes that's like, it's, that feels like what it's like.

Yeah. So, so when dealing with Vatapita children, so like remember that they're like water, the harder you come at them, the more they're going to feel like concrete. Yep. Right?

Whereas like if you're kind of smooth and gentle, I'm sure you guys have figured this out already, but like if you're kind of smooth and gentle, like he'll listen. But, he may not respond to commands. And then there's a whole thing about boundary setting. And, you know, it sounds like you guys do a pretty good job of that.

But anyway, it sounds like he's a wonderful kid. But I do think that, you know, he's going to be challenging if he's not already. Yep. But he's starting to show that head on. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so thank you guys for coming on. Let me just think a little bit about maybe like how to follow up with you all about, you know,

potentially, you know, follow up, whether it's on stream or whatever. or maybe I can just recommend a book if you guys are curious or something. Because I think especially about the pit the children are like they're challenging, right? Because he's flighty, like he doesn't always pay attention. And sometimes when he does, he chooses not to listen. So part of it is attentional. And then a part of it is defiance. It's just he's just going to do what he wants when he wants to.

And it's challenging because he's like, you know, when he points in the right direction, it's amazing. When you guys are all on the same page, it's great. Right. True. So thank you all so much for coming on. Anything that we can do to help you before we kind of wrap up for today? Good, Benjamin? I think I'm good, baby.

All right. Well, do you guys want to learn to meditate? I mean, it sounds like Sam has some experience. Sometimes we'll teach people at the end of stream if they're interested in learning. It's up to you, Benjamin. I, after this is done, I'm going back to A. for a couple more hours. So I think meditation and a fast-paced BR don't necessarily line up yet. But I mean,

something like that, especially for me, we didn't get a whole lot into my side of things. We talked about a lot about Samantha, which is totally fine. Her story is honestly way more elaborate and interesting than mine. My life as a kid grown up was so vanilla. We'd make your headspin. Yes, I think it's something that in the future, I'll be down to talk about. Sure, of course.

Well, good luck with Apex. Thank you. And yeah, thank you guys so much for coming on. I really appreciate you all sharing this part of your life. You know, I've heard, Ben, you know, I know you, I get the impression at least from what I hear on Twitter and whatnot that you do a pretty good job about setting a boundary around your personal life and your streamer life, right? Like there's Ben and there's Dr. Lupo.

We try to, yeah. So I particularly appreciate. that you're willing to kind of cross that boundary for our sake and to try to educate people. So far, we really haven't had a single case of knock on wood. Anyone having bad fallout from coming on stream, but if something like that does happen, you know, please let us know. Cool.

And good luck to you guys, and I hope you school some noops. Thanks, that's okay. I appreciate me. Sam, enjoy your nap. Yes. I will get a little one before I head right back into work. Okay, sounds terrible. Have a nice day. Bye.

Appreciate. Oh, my God. So much work, chat. Well, we hope that, you know, he wrecks some noobs.