HealthyGamerGG - How to Set Proper Boundaries w/ Melina

Episode Date: January 21, 2021

Greetings, traveler. In today's interview, Melina returns to talk about recent drama, betrayal and setting boundaries. Think less of "boundaries" as a way of keeping yourself separate, but as a way of creating healthy rules for navigating relationships. Do you have any relationships that could benefit from setting boundaries? This podcast will help. Stream Schedule: https://www.twitch.tv/healthygamer_gg on Twitch. Youtube: https://youtu.be/s5cjlHMkOUM for VoD Archive. Support us at https://ko-fi.com/healthygamer if you enjoy our content and would continue helping making it accessible to everyone! Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cool. So welcome. Thank you. I think someone asked me a loaded question about what I thought about polyamorous relationships. I don't know if you heard my answer. Wait, what was your answer? My answer was I haven't seen many that are, or I haven't seen really any that are very successful, but there's a big selection bias because the people who tend to come to me tend to be unhappy with something.

Right? So all the happy people in polyamorous relationships probably never walk in my door. I think it all depends on what the relationship is like, right? Sure. Yeah, too. There's tons of relationships that are monogamous that doesn't work out either. Absolutely. I think it all depends on where the boundaries are and stuff like that.

And I mean, I feel like there definitely has to be like more trust and stuff in an open or polyamorous relationship. And you need to like balance each other out, I think. Yeah. And if you don't, yeah, then it's going to be even worse probably than a monogamous relationship, I think. I think if there's like more of a difference. Yeah, I think that's a really good point that a lot of monogamous relationships are shit. I think, well, I feel like most relationships are shit somehow. Right?

I think every, every relationship has something that is like not good. Very wise words. Yeah. But I mean, if you ask people on the internet, especially like, Twitch people on the internet, maybe don't really have a lot of experience when it comes to relationships. So when they see that there's something that is bad, they judge like everything like so hard too. So yeah, of course, I don't think anyone is like perfect. Do you feel like your relationship is perfect? Good God, no. No. Yeah. And that's, I am. I don't think people know that.

There's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for having me again. Yeah, I think that's in April, I think. Yeah, so it was a while ago. Yeah. So tell me, how have you been? Um, it's been like, it's been good and bad. Um, after our last talk, I feel like it's been pretty good because I, um, I built my whole Twitch career since then, basically. So that's pretty cool. Um, I lived a long. Yeah. Thank you. That was, yeah, that was really nice. It made me really happy. Um, I built like my own community and everything. So it was really fun. I've traveled around in Europe and stuff and met friends and hung out with people and stuff. The pandemic and the long distance relationship thing went on for about 10 months. That was really hard. Yeah.

And I think especially recently, maybe like the past four or five months has been pretty hard with people breaking my trust. Okay. And that's why I wanted to come here today. Okay. Four to five months of people breaking your trust sounds like a long time. Yeah. I mean, it's been longer than that.

It's just like the past five months has been like almost every single person, almost, that I'm really, really close friends with. That's terrible. Yeah. What happened? I think, I mean, there's, I don't know, I just feel like, I just, I feel like there's so many people that I let come like very, very close. And I'm like a very open, like, happy person that wants to let people in.

and I just want to have fun and stuff like that. But whenever there's like something that they're not getting their way of or when they feel like they can get something out of me, they don't give a shit about how I feel anymore. And they do something. And I don't know. I don't really understand why they're doing the things that they're doing. And it's like almost every single one.

Even people that I consider my best friends would do something really, really terrible. Let me just make sure I kind of understood you. So it seems like, you know, you tend to be pretty open. You let people into your life. And that you've noticed recently that people, if they can kind of get ahead in some way, they'll take advantage of your openness. Yeah. And then like, it can, I don't know, it just kind of like feels like they don't give a shit.

And like, when I call them out on it or just like, explain like this like this really fucking hurts they usually just kind of like blame it on me or something or just say that I should just take it and that I shouldn't be sad about it and and and like there's some cases where I decide to just cut him off and I just can't because it's too much and I just feel like I don't want to be around these people anymore because it hurts so much and then they're the ones that's like always like messaging and it's like trying I don't know to like make me feel bad about how I'm feeling maybe a little bit and then

it feels like everyone is acting very selfish and that they have they just like oh yeah whatever like it's like that a little bit about like how I feel about things or that they just don't give a fuck I had a person I think a lot of people

like that's watching like those what happened recently but I think the thing that hurts the most from that situation was I had a person that I consider my best friend, just leaking logs of my deepest, darkest thoughts to the whole world. And this is a person. Sounds like a pretty big violation of your trust.

Yeah. Why would they do that? I don't know. I try to question myself if there's something I'm doing wrong. Well, you know, that's an interesting question because, so I'm not really hearing anything yet. But one thing that I have noticed, Molina, is that, you know, sometimes people will say, everyone does this to me or there are a lot of different people who do this to me. And sometimes I kind of think a little bit about if there's a common conflict that you have in multiple relationships, it's really important to think about your contribution. to that conflict because the common element.

That's what I'm trying to do. Like, the most is, if all of these people are doing this and, like, I am the common, like, aspect about everything it has to do with me, right? Yeah. Unfortunately, sometimes that's true. Yeah. And I'm trying to figure that out. Yeah.

So, like, I'll give you just one example of that, okay? So even then, it's not necessarily that it's your fault. But, like, you know, I've worked with women who end up in men. So let's use an example of a man. I'm thinking about one person in particular who tends to end up in toxic and abusive relationships. Like he gets into like toxic and abusive girlfriend after girlfriend after girlfriend. And, you know, they'll be like he'll, like his last three girlfriends have like physically abused him. And so he's like, is it something I'm doing?

And it sort of turns out that early on in terms of like the way he meets people and who he feels. It's just interesting because he's kind of like a. macho kind of guy, he actually sort of selects for partners who sort of have those kind of abusive characteristics. And he actually feels like really, really like frightened and confused when he's like dating someone who's like caring. And so sometimes it can be something as simple as like the kinds of people that you choose to associate with. And, you know, because sometimes people will like kind of hang out with drama-oriented people. And if you hang out with drama-oriented people, you may find drama.

Yeah. But I do think it can be challenging, but I also think it's like really awesome that you're thinking about your contribution to these situations. Yeah, I just kind of like, I kind of, I don't know. Can you help me understand a little bit about, you know, what's happened recently and and how it's affected you? Basically what happened is that I got a friend named Bob. About in April, I started talking.

I kind of didn't open up to anyone about anything almost for a pretty long time because I felt like if I started to like vent to people, that would cause problems. Or like everything would get dramatic. I didn't say anything. talk to anyone or about anything and that can feel pretty hard too like if you're not if you don't have like a friend to vent too or something like that because i because i didn't i didn't want to like make anyone look bad or anything like that um and then i think in october or something like

that like we started becoming like closer friends and then i started um i went into some dark face when i just didn't yeah it i don't know you know like when you start feeling so bad you almost have like no control of yourself and it feels like your body's like an out of pilot and you yeah and that was like the only person that I ever like told all of my thoughts too and um what happened a few weeks after that was that Bob told one of Stephen's close friends all of the stuff that I told him which was really hard for Stephen's friend because they were friends and she felt worried about me and felt worried about Stephen about our relationship because it was pretty crazy stuff.

So she thought she was like super, super against me. She was super against the relationship. I felt super, super, super betrayed and super bad. I'm confused. Why would this person feel against? It sounds like this person is friends with Stephen's destiny, by the way. And so this person was afraid of how your thoughts would affect y'all's relationship? I'm a little bit confused.

Yeah. And, like, thought, like, badly of him and thought badly of me and everything was so crazy. And, yeah. I'm, okay. I'm, I, I, you just lost me. He basically just told this person all of this, like, all of my deepest, darkest secrets and just, like, everything. Which was also, like, a lot of problems in mine and Stephen's relationship. And that comes from, like, being away from each other for 10 months.

Um, a lot of, like, things that I went through. at the time and like things that he went through. So there was like a lot of things that was like not meant for like other people to hear about and especially not Steven's friends. So that really really sucked and I felt like I just question like why did you do that? And yeah, this person kind of like changes answers all the time and says that he did it because he was worried about me and that he wanted to vent to someone else about my problems with someone so he could help me.

Then he also said that the other person was in the dark about. everything was worried about that friend being Steven's friend and then or and also like that he just didn't give a fuck about me basically so there's like a lot of different um he said that he doesn't give a fuck about you yeah or that he just it didn't really matter i don't really see the problem of telling your secrets to all their people like just like that and i don't see the problem he's just saying that he doesn't see the problem in that so it's like okay um but so it sounds like you're getting a lot of different answers yeah yeah yeah yeah we're Sure. Just so I understand. So it sounds like maybe it was hard for this person to sit with all of the emotional weight of what you were confiding in him and he needed to confide in someone else.

Yeah, but he's also saying that he told this person because he felt worried about her for being Steven's friend because Stephen is a psychopath or whatever. So he's just like really, a lot of really, really, really crazy stuff. I don't know. A lot of crazy. I have so many questions about so much about what you've said. The most shocking one is because, you know, Stephen is a psychopath. What does that mean? What does that mean? Like, people are always going to think that just because he doesn't like cry on stream and like show a lot of emotions and stuff like that.

And he talks very cold and stuff like that. People don't think even as an emotional guy, which he is. but no one really sees that and people just treat him like shit because of it and just doesn't give a fuck basically but none of these people really know him but that's basically what happened

I felt really really sad I felt really sad for about two weeks after this happened until this guy Bob convinced me that yeah he wasn't he didn't mean to and he wanted to keep me as a friend and that he didn't want me to come him off and stuff like that. And then it went on with like two weeks.

How did you feel when he said that? He kind of showed like a different side of himself a little bit. That's the thing. Like he always was like, what do you call like a joker? He was like almost like he was always like joking around and like he would never really like there was the thing like why I like talking to him was because he was very neutral. And then he would like joke things away a little bit instead of like making people really serious. and that would kind of make me see the humor and things.

It was really nice for me to talk to him, yeah. But this time, he was, like, begging me to, like, not leave him as a friend and that he really cared about me, you know. He was like, and I've never heard him say anything like that before. So for me, that felt very genuine, I guess. Or it took me, like, it took a heart, I don't know, it took a lot of effort and a lot of, like, mental effort and stuff to get over that betrayal. Did you feel like you had to get over that betrayal?

Yeah, because this was my best friend. Okay. Yeah. I felt like I didn't have any best friends or anything. He didn't have any best friends? Not really like in this world, no. Like I moved away from my friends and like I lived in Sweden at the time, but a lot of my friends moved away from Stockholm.

And like I didn't really. have a friend that was like super available I guess so like this was like in a very important person I just came back to America and I don't really know anyone in LA either you know and like I didn't have anyone that was that available and that I felt like I had that connection with I don't even know if that connection was real that was the thing because he lied about so many things um what do you lie about he he lied about like let me think he um everything kind of I kind of like turn out this way. There was like two months of him basically telling me how bad relationship I was in and stuff.

And I tried to like navigate away from that, but everything was really hard because I felt like I didn't want to lose him as a friend and I didn't, you know, want to be disrespectful to Stephen. There was like, everything was like pretty crazy. And then like Steven's friend that was a close friend of his, like didn't like me at all and just like hated me because she saw that I, she felt like I wasn't. respecting everything was like really insane

he basically told a bunch of lies and he it came out that he talked also so like much behind my back like really really badly like a bunch of shit about like about me behind my back

and I've seen like logs of this as well so like while this was all going on he was shit talking like crazy to a lot of people So I don't think this person was like real I think this person was I don't know I have no idea like why or how Sounds like you're really confused about what to believe about Bob is it?

Yeah Yeah Seems like really conflicting Yeah I don't I have no idea I don't I don't know I think he I have no idea I don't know Maybe he kind of just like give up on me or something thing. But like letting like everything like go on and stuff. It was like really, everything was like really crazy. I only found out about all this because me and that person or her name is Bose. She,

Steven's friend. She came to the same kind of like convention kind of thing. Bose? Boz. Yeah, that's her name. Okay. Bose, yeah. And I feel whenever I'm like around people that I know has like a lot of really bad opinions about me or there's like a fight going. on or something. I never spoken to this person really before. I've never been here in real life. I get really weird and I get really uncomfortable and I need to confront. So what I did was that I in Georgia confronted her and said, hey, I know exactly everything you know like you think about me because I got a huge like log sent from him the day before. We're actually through another

person. Yeah, everything is like really crazy. But yeah, I got like a lot of her saying a lot of really, really bad things about me, and I confronted her. And then during three hours, we figured out that he was full of shit, basically. So she felt really betrayed as well. So, yeah, this whole thing was like really, really insane. And then, um, why do you need to confront? I just can't walk around people knowing that they, uh, that they have like problems. I can't do that. I need to like, come from them and ask why? Why? Why? Um, I feel so bad. It's better. for me to almost just like do like just like confront them and like know exactly what they what they think about me. I just want to have a straight conversation instead of like hearing a bunch of

stuff behind my back about what this person thinks about me and like feel their energy. I can't do that. I need to like, hey, I know what you think about me. Let's talk about it. Like I need to do that. Okay. So it sounds like you can sort of feel their malice, feel their negative energy like through rumors and DMs and so and so. You just need to cut through it and just, okay. Yeah, I just have to. I just have to do it. And then when we did, we figured out there was like a lot of things that was pretty

crazy. And we can't, what happened was basically that there was other people that knew him as well and that knew me and her. So we start talking to another person about all this. And that person told us even more things that he said to them. And then we were like, oh my God, this person is friends with this person as well, and I'm friends with this person. I'm going to ask this person. And then it was just like a bunch of people like figuring out like, okay, wait, this happened.

Like this is like all what's been said and stuff like that. How did it feel to go through that? Kind of that investigation and figuring things out and piecing things together. At the time when that happened, this is really scary. What was scary? I don't know. It's like really insane like that. like that all of that happened that this was like a person that I used to view in such

positive way and then we find out that there was like a bunch of people that like that he betrayed us well about like talking shippe in your back and stuff and he did it very everything yeah everything was pretty crazy and then um he kind of like already went around to other people talking really really badly about Stephen as well and Stephen knew about this like three months ago. Like he figured out that this happened like a long time ago. Um, especially with those as well because he talked so much to her.

Um, so he was really, really pissed and he felt like he didn't even know who thought what about anything anymore. Or like about him because he was running around saying so much stuff. Like that wasn't true, like lies, twisted truth. It's like a lot of crazy stuff.

Will you, can you pause for just a second? I'd like to just collect my thoughts and try to, I just need a moment. Yeah, sure. This sounds like drama to me. Yeah, it is drama. It is.

It's very dramatic. I mean, you told me to explain the situation. I'm explaining it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. I'm just, I'm struck by how much there's this person talk to this person and this person talk to this person and this person. Like that sounds fucking exhausting. Yeah, I mean,

Yeah, I don't know. I don't even know what, like, being exhausted is anymore because that's what I feel all the time. What's it like to be exhausted all the time? That's hard to explain. I feel like two years ago when I wasn't streaming on Twitch and I was not involved with all these people and stuff. And I had like my life in New Zealand or in Sweden and stuff and everything was like very normal, I'd say. It was of course like stuff that happened sometimes. But I felt like it was very easy for me to like Just disconnect thoughts and stuff And just focus on certain things

And just relax and enjoy things But it sounds like it's really surrounding you now Like you can't escape from it Yeah I can't And even if I try to like Um Like go work out or go for run or go for walk Or just like

It follows you around I meditate I can't It doesn't work. I can't do it. It's like all over like all the time. Um, and then it's like everything like upon that as well. There's like there's like the stress about streaming and the stress about staying contact with people. There's stress about the relationships. There's stress about the world. There's stress about like so many things, you know. And and then I have all of these people. This is like not just

like this thing that happened. There's like other things. that happens around that as well. And there's people messaging me saying that I am like hurting them because I am not as available as they want me to be and stuff like that too. And I just feel like I can't sit and like respond to messages because it stresses me out so much. And then I hurt people because I'm not giving them like what they feel like they need out of me, I guess. So I'm like very exhausted. Yeah. Sounds like a lot of people.

Melina, it feels to me like you're getting sucked dry. Yeah, I mean, I think this is something we talked a little bit about last time. But yeah, I just feel like I'm absolutely going in the worst direction possible at the moment. I have no idea how to control better what to do. And tell me about that direction you're going in right now. What makes it so bad? I'm just getting so hurt. I'm getting so hurt over and over again

and no one gives a fuck that's what it feels like no one of these people like understands like I had another I had another friend like betraying me pretty hardcore by like really like telling me like you could always come to me you could always talk to me

I would never do anything of these things that you're so scared of happening and then this person did exactly the thing that would be the absolute worst for them to do what did they do I don't think it's well. I don't think I shouldn't like go. Okay. Oh, sorry.

But that really, really sucks. And then like that felt so bad that it just like, I don't think this person never cared about me. I think this person was just really selfish and wanted me to think certain ways about them for them to make it easier to get something else. And this person is like messaging me trying to like, I don't know, I don't know if they're trying to like make me feel bad. about anything because they're still like so like defensive about what they did. And they're they're very like, but what about me? And I'm like, but I wasn't the I've like done everything for you. Like I've done all the like the best things for you because I cared.

You know? That's what I felt. And then this person just like did this. Just out of like being. Who takes care of you Moina? Sounds like you spend a lot of time taking care of other people who takes care of you. I think Stephen can takes care of me sometimes. I don't think he really like takes care.

I think he cares, like, whenever we have a fight or something like that, I think he cares about solving it, but I think it's very hard for him, which is, I understand. Like, he's used the way he is. But I mean, whenever I, like, if I would be upset about something, like my mom or something like that, like, he would always, like, take care of me, of course, and, like, talk to me. Like, I was sad yesterday because I just felt, like,

all these things are, like, happening to me. and I wonder if I deserve it because all of these things are happening and all of these people just decides to do like really horrible things to me that must mean that it feels that way it doesn't sound very good when I say

but it feels like I deserve it. When they say... I feel very small and like very weak. It sounds to me like you're kind of getting taken advantage of. Yeah. But I think I kind of like always felt that way, I think. It's just that there's more people that's able to do that at the moment.

Maybe. I feel like there's more people that's doing. Yeah, it sounds like a lot of people are, the themes that I'm hearing are that people betray your trust. People sort of don't look out for you, you know. Yeah, they rely on you for emotional support. like it feels like very one-way traffic the way you're describing it? Yeah.

I feel like it's always been like that a lot. Like my mom is that way. She's always like, ever since I was a kid, I've been her therapist since I was like seven years old. I remember. Yeah. And I've always kind of like felt like I had to like, yeah, like step back.

a lot, you know, and just like take everyone's stuff. But I don't, I don't understand it. Maybe I'm like not showing enough that I just can't take anymore, you know? I don't know. So let's talk about, so let's like pick one particular case and maybe dig into it. By the way, if you want to explain more about, you know, what's happened with Bob and stuff recently, I'm more than happy to listen. There was just so much significant stuff.

I felt like I had to kind of pause. It's like a crazy story. It's like a movie almost. It's like very insane, like a lot of like really crazy. Moving pieces and figuring things out and then the picture changing and yeah. Yeah, a lot of. And then like now everything is like really weird too because there's like other streamers trying to like get us be platformed because.

Get us get you de-platformed? Yeah, like trying to like get us banned from Twitch. Like, that's how crazy. What's your understanding of why other people? What have you done that's worthy of being banned from Twitch and people's minds? I don't know. I have no idea. I have no idea why they would want to try to do that.

I think they probably just feel really bad. I think they're really upset because things turned out the way it did. And they kind of like supported someone that they probably regret supporting after what came out after that. But why would they try to get you. banned if they supported someone who's... Probably because it feels good for them, right? It probably feels good if you really hate someone, if you really upset with someone, you probably wish to worse for them at the moment, right?

So is there anything that you can think of that you've done that would make someone think... So hatred is one reason that you want someone to be banned. Is there anything like, what do they say? Like, what's their complaint as to why you should be banned? Motivations aside. Like to try to bring up stuff from the past, stuff like that, and just like try to like, yeah. There's like one person that is like making a big document about having their fans, like trying to collect all the worst things that me and Stephen has ever done to try to get us banned. Wow.

That's how bad it is. Yeah. Sounds like you're being hunted. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't. It all like came from like something really dumb about like one. person not liking the other person.

So this person defended Bob because of it, basically. And then, yeah, Bob came out with like, or first, Stephen, Stephen went live and he explained, like, the situation with Bob talking a bunch of shit about Stephen to other people and stuff because he felt like he didn't really stop. Like Bob did this to so many people that he just felt like he had to make it public. Because there was no way for Bob to stop doing this, because it was people that, already started hating Stephen. And then after that, Bob just made like a big, like, what was it, like 40, 40, like pages

of just like shit and leaks and just like crazy stuff to like make us look as bad as possible and a bunch of lies. And then Stephen made like a big one too where he explained everything that happened, basically. And one of the things that happened was that Bob sexually harassed another girl. And that came out in this one too. so after that came out this other person

which is Kay Sachan tried to get us banned because she's really upset because she took Bobside on this so it's pretty so it's kind of like a war between yeah it sounds like a war like

people that are like it reminds me of like I don't know like how the fuck all this happened like it's like really insane like it's a great question I mean this reminds me of like studying European history, you know, when like France and Spain start to fight. And then England is like, we're on Spain side because fuck France. And then Germany is like, oh my God, we better join France aside.

And then like you have this whole balance of power thing where like different people are like making documents and supporting each other and like. Yeah, it's like really insane. Yeah, I don't know. And I'm just like, I just want to like, I here's the thing. What kind of person I am? I just want to like have a cabin in nature. Just chill. Do my thing. make art and do shrooms. That's what I want to do. I just want to chill. I don't want to.

Like, that was my life before this. Like, I just, like, liked being very present and stuff. What do you like about streaming? Like, it's weird, right? Because it's like, I want a cabin out in the woods. I want to just be by myself and stream. You kind of just, like, toss that in it. Streaming is nice.

If I can, like, spend time with my community and I can travel around and I can show them the beauty of the world. That's why I like to them because I think the world is beautiful. If I can do that, that makes me happy, you know? How do you get into all this? I mean, I became friends with Bob, right? That's how it started. So I think oddly enough, so Molina, we've got a couple of different options, okay?

One is that, you know, if you feel like it would be helpful to you or helpful for us to understand, I'm happy to hear more of the play-by-plays about who said what and who did what, if you think that kind of thing is helpful. generally speaking, I don't know that I'm really that good at... No, I don't think it's necessary either. I don't think it's necessary. I think it's more about that right now I just feel like there's been so many things that I just feel like I don't think I'm going to be the same person in the year.

You know, I think I'm just going to be a divorced version of myself possible very soon. Okay. So let me offer a couple of different directions and then you let me know. think the term divorced version of yourself, that sounds. Actually, let me just forget about what I was going to. Tell me what that means. The worst or divorced? Yeah, the worst version.

The worst. Okay. Help me understand that. Why do you think you're going to be the worst version of yourself a year from now? Because I just feel like, I don't think I've, I don't think, okay, so I don't think I've cried as much and, like, felt so much anxiety. this past year or like last year than I've ever like felt my into our life almost maybe like when I was a kid or something but I don't remember that exactly um and I remember when I was living in a van

and I was traveling around and I was in nature I think during six months I had one bad day yeah and I feel like I always like every single day I get back to like a dark place every single day and what brings you back to that dark place it kind of just hits from out of nowhere or something I don't know like it from out of nowhere it just hits and that sounds terrible I mean sometimes when I think about going to a dark place

I think like if it's triggered by something at least you have some sense of like control or preparation but if it just kind of randomly like it sounds like it sounds like it haunts you, right? Like, I think, like, it, like, follows you around. Yeah.

I think it's, like, always there, I guess. Yeah, it's really hard to, like, live here and just, like, stream and just, like, do the same thing, like, every single day. And then, like, that can, like, happen during stream, too. So that really sucks as well. And then I feel really, really sad. And I feel like it can deliver or, like, it can function. What is it that haunts you? Um, just like

I just feel like I'm, uh, I don't know, I'm trying to think if I care about these people that hurt me, like if I care about their opinions. I don't know, maybe I do a little, I mean, I just feel like so weak and hurt and just like, I feel like I don't like

deserve to like take care of myself. Maybe, like, that's what it feels like. So I just like don't really see the purpose of like doing anything good for myself or like to stream or like eat or like try to work out or anything like that. I just like lose motivation. How long have you felt like you don't deserve to take care of yourself? I think it comes and goes but I think this time period right now has been the longest one and that has probably it's probably been like growing but it always been there but like growing for maybe like three months. Okay.

So, Melina, this may be a little bit. So one thing I want to kind of offer you is, so a lot of times we talk about feelings, but I think today I'm hearing that there may be a couple things that may apply, may not apply, but I could actually sort of like try to explain a few concepts or even make a couple of recommendations in your case. Now, the challenge is that, you know,

if I jump into that now, there's a decent chance some of that stuff is actually like wrong, like it doesn't apply to you. And the more we talk, I think the more, you know, the sort of educational principles are going to apply to you, but I already have some kind of ideas about stuff. So do you think we should explore further or do you want to try to like maybe start to formulate a plan

as to like how to tackle this? We can explore further. Okay. Sounds interesting. Yeah. So tell me Understand what is the worst version of yourself How is that person different from where you are now?

What will you become that you don't want to be? I feel like when I'm happy, I'm shining a lot And I see the best thing. A smile does really light up your face. It's like, it's like magic. Yeah, yeah. So I just feel like, and that's like how I express myself, I guess, like being happy, I guess.

Yeah. I think I let myself feel things, which is good. Like, I'm pretty accepting, like, I'm accepting my own feelings a lot, I think. But I feel like I can't, like, deliver, like, what I do, I guess, or, like, how I am. Sounds like something's getting in the way of you being you. Yeah, exactly. It feels like that's taking away from me. And I also feel like,

like, instead of, like, seeing, like, the positive things and, like, feeling happy and excited and just, like, laughing and being excited to, like, do things and stuff like that, I just feel like I'm, like, becoming very hateful. And I feel like I see the worst in people, even if they haven't even done anything to me yet or anything. I just, like, expect the worst. I feel like I can't trust anyone.

I feel like I'm becoming more lonely. Um, I feel like I feel less too. I feel like it's hard for me to like express my feelings. Sure. I'm, I'm almost hearing like, almost like a defense of numbness. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, I'm becoming like more maybe like, I don't even know if it's like anger. It's just hateful, I guess.

And I just feel like the way that I am is like gone almost. Or it's going to be gone soon. Can it be destroyed by hatred? You're going to become a Sith Lord? I don't know. I just feel like I'm like dying. What's it? It feels like.

Yeah. Tell me about the hatred. Um, no, it's just like a feeling that's there. It's just growing just there. And whatever like I see. Um,

it's like everything. It's like everything. I don't know. Like it, it's, it's not like a, I hate like specific things. It feels like it's just a hate filter that comes on.

And then I just see everything that way. Yeah. So what are saying? I have like this like dark like hate filter on. Yeah. So I can see how having the hate filter instead of the love filter is the worst version of you. Yeah.

Yeah. That you kind of view yourself as someone. I mean, do you think you have a love filter on in the best version of you? Yeah. Okay. Like love and happy. and just like um it's so hard to like explain i feel like i've um hmm this is like really weird but when i when i used to do like a lot of psychedelics and stuff i felt like i had like a lot of love

filter um because you kind of like just like love and accept everything that's the thing like no matter if it's bad or whatever you just see everything as as it is and you decide to just see it in a good way because that's like the, yeah, it just, it just kind of sucks when it's like almost impossible to feel that way because like all of this is like happening and you can't really control yourself and this is all just like growing. I don't know. I don't even know if that makes sense. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense. I have a weird question for you. Can you have a love filter on when you look at your hate filter?

Can you love your hate filter? Maybe. This makes me think about, there's like a picture of a person looking at a field with flowers. And then there's another person that is like on books. And then that person sees like that behind or this is like a fake picture. It's actually just like a screen. And then behind that the world is trash. And then like there's like another person that is stepping on more books or like on books.

and sees that that is also a screen and the universe is like beautiful basically because that person is so high up but it sees the beautiful of the universe kind of thing. It sounds like that a little bit. Yeah, it's a great analogy. Yeah. But that has to do with knowledge or whatever.

But yeah, I thought about that. I did like, I did how much most... I think it was like 7.5 grams of mushrooms a year ago. which is not really, that was an accident, that was pretty crazy. Is that a lot? Huh? Is that a lot? It's like crazy.

Yeah, like you're, you're gone. It's like you're somewhere else. I can handle those sort of moments where it's like really stressful or like really insane like pretty well. But I remember I thought about that a lot that, um, that everything felt really uncomfortable because it's like really intense. But it all depended like if I if I kind of like just. accepted that and just thought about the world trying to like show me an experience and why wouldn't I try to like see that as a positive thing even though it was really uncomfortable and just like

tried to love that feeling instead kind of I don't know so it makes me think about that can I ask you a little bit more about the hatred um from people or or from me know what you feel about hate yeah like like so I asked you like you know what do you hate and you said it's like a filter And I hate everything. Can you give me some examples of, like, what are some of the things that you hate? Certain people. Particular people. Yeah.

What about other people? Like, your community, yourself, Stephen, your family. Do you hate them too? Or is it just particular people? Maybe it's, like, particular people. It's just that I can't, like, it's hard for me just because my trust has been broken. it's very hard for me to see people like that hasn't done anything to me in a good way too because I'm just waiting for them to betray me too right so it's like oh that sounds like trauma

yeah yeah yeah um so it doesn't sound like you actually so I guess the the hate filter that you're referring to is sort of waiting for other people to betray you but that actually when it comes down to your hatred you actually just feel hatred towards a few people. Probably, but it's also just that I don't know. I can feel hate towards people that I don't know. Can you give me an example of that? Like if there's a person that message me

and I can tell like my first instinct is like they want something. You know, they want something and this person's shit. This person doesn't give a shit about me or about it. And what would the message say? Can you give us an example? It could be someone just like reaching out, checking on how I'm doing. It could be anything. That's the thing.

But I'm just like, like this person wants something. Like this person doesn't give a fuck. This person doesn't know me. This person has no idea what's going on. When did you? Yeah. When did you start to feel like, when did that hate filter come get put on? When did you start to have those kinds of thoughts about other people?

I think it's been slowly growing since a year ago maybe but like right now it's really really bad I think like when it really really happened was probably like October or November I think it became even worse for sure because I've always like small things happening and then like big thing happens and then like small things happens and then like one big one

and it goes like that And how do you change when those things happen? First, I think I get really hurt and really shocked. And then I think I get pretty sad. And then I get pretty angry. And then I think it's just like something has changed within me. But I think I'm like, I don't give a fuck. Like, I think I'm like that.

But I think I do. But it's just so deep that I can't really see like the details of it. it anymore. Like it went and it happened. I saw details of it, but then it's like, like, another weight, like, on me, I guess. Yeah. It's a very insightful way of thinking about it. What do you think it is that's very deep? Like, like, can you give me any information about what is that thing? The, like, the heavy weight, like, I'm just feeling. But that's, like, the thing, like, that comes like from it's like so deep and then it feels like it just comes i don't know how to say it um it's hard to do you feel like it's dormant and then it wakes up at times and then it goes

back to sleep um yeah sure a lot of it like that yeah i guess so but like when something happens it feels like everything like comes up again a lot of yeah yeah that's how it works Yeah. So, Molina, can I share some thoughts with you? So first of all, I want to say, I don't think any of this is your fault. I don't know if you, you know, blame yourself for it. Do I think you have some degree of agency or control over your situation? Absolutely.

But I would encourage you to do your best to not blame yourself, but also like strike a balance between accepting that you made a mistake, because I think you may have made mistakes, but also like forgiving yourself for making that mistake, which is actually a little bit tricky. So a lot of times we'll be like, that was wrong and therefore I'm a piece of shit, or nothing was wrong and I'm totally fine. The truth is that it was wrong and you aren't a piece of shit. It's just, you know, we're human beings. We learn.

So here's what I kind of hear from you. So you're like kind of an open and happy person. by nature. You're like, I'm going to get in a van and drive around New Zealand and do some shrooms and meet people and have fun and like engage with people and like appreciate what life has to offer and listen to the sound of a mountain stream and watch a sunset and like, you know, engage with a community and have some fun. Like, that's really who you are. And then people take advantage of your openness. So I think that you do let people in and I think probably this is where like, you know, learning some about like, like, set up.

boundaries because it sounds like what's happening is you let people kind of like deep in and then they like betray you. Right. And I think there's there's probably something around the kind of person that you attract. So that like you are so open and you are so bright. And you have this like they adjusts, which I think we may have talked about last time. I'm starting to remember, but that you have this sort of like energy about you that like, brings sort of like the hungry, lonely people from the internet. And they see Molina as shiny and they're like, ooh, I want something. Right?

And then I think that things get into like this sort of things get kind of tricky because I think that you actually have needs there too, which you may not realize, which is that like I think you probably get a lot of benefit from being that person for other people. And so you guys enter into these relationships where you guys are like offering a lot of like emotional support. But it may be a little bit unclear about like what the foundation of that relationship is. So I think there's like a mutual friendship where people can support each other. But I see this a lot in in streamer communities especially where, you know, things get really tangled, especially when two people are streamers because then there's like numbers involved and this person is growing bigger than I am and this person to do. doing this and this person is doing that. And so there's a lot of genuine friendship. There's a lot of genuine goodness. There's a lot of genuine caring that then gets like polluted by these other

things. But one thing that I would really encourage you to think a little bit about is like for the people who do betray you, what did the start of your relationship look like? And if you want to talk more, I think that's where we should explore. Because I would guess, and that's just a guess, right? so this could be completely off, is that like there's something about the way that that relationship starts where either you're kind of like, this is where we put our psychoanalyst sort of hat on, you can go see a psychoanalyst about this if you want to. I don't really understand this stuff. But are you playing out some kind of thing with your mom? Or like, is this the kind of thing? So sometimes we, as human beings, willingly enter familiar but painful situation.

and this goes back to that that patient that I was working with who sort of like like anytime like a woman treats him with like respect early on he gets like kind of confused but when he meets a woman who sort of like devalues him and then he in turn devalues her he's a toxic and abusive do it's just like it goes both ways and so they kind of fall into this pattern and I think in his case it's really about it was really confusing for him and we worked through like that initial relationship. that initial interaction where like he starts to pull away. So what I'd be really curious about is for Bob, you know, how did y'all's relationships start? And kind of exploring that because I think you'll find a lot of answers there. I think the other things to think a little bit about are, you know, I do think that it seems like you evoke complicated feelings in people. So my sense, just hearing, you know, what you said about Bob is not that,

he's like, I mean, maybe he's two-faced and untrustworthy and whatever. I have no idea. But it sounds to me like when he was giving you lots of reasons, like, I don't think he's like lying about five of them and one of them is real. I think they're all real and contradictory, which is why it's so confusing for him and like so confusing for you. Because it probably may have been, I mean, it could have been a lot for him to sit with all of your emotional weight. He may have needed to decompress. And then he may be devaluing you in terms of how much that hurt you. So he may say like, oh, it's not that big of a deal. I don't understand why you're bent out of shape. And the reason he does that is because he actually does care about you. And the thought that he did something that hurts you hurts him so much that he has to like pretend it didn't happen. Which doesn't mean that he doesn't care about you. In fact, it sort of means the opposite.

Does that make sense? He can't tolerate the idea. This is just a hypothesis because we've never met the guy. but it may be possible that he can't tolerate the idea and he knows exactly that what he did was wrong and really hurtful and he cares about you. So he's like, let's pretend it didn't happen. Can we just move on? And it sort of makes sense to me that he's... Huh?

Do you think it's like that what everyone almost that's done something like that? I think that let me say this. Is that true for everyone? I don't know. But I will say this, that the easy... pain for one human being to ignore is the pain that they cause to someone who they care about. So the biggest deniers of me hurting you are parents towards their children. If you want to see really, really, really strong denial, talk to a parent about how they hurt their children.

And you'll see the strongest denial in the world. So in my history as a psychiatrist, and the more you care, the more you deny. Because like, if you care about someone and I really, really hurt you, like, holy shit, it means I don't care about you. And that is so cognitively dissonant and difficult for someone to sit with that it really causes all kinds of problems. And I think it sounds like you guys are sort of in the situation where he can't admit what he did to you. So you guys can't move past it. And this is where I think a big part of, like, moving past things is actually admitting that hurt happened. Right.

And then you can really forgive people. But, like, unless there was no real, if there's no crime, then there's no mercy, right? Like, um. Yeah. Sure. I mean, it sounds like it in this case, I mean, I would say in terms of everyone, so it also doesn't sound like everyone betrayed you. It sounds like there are a lot of people in your life that don't betray you. but it feels like everyone betrayed you.

Yeah, I think it's like an unbelievable like amount of people that's like doing something. What percentage of people that you regularly interact with would you say have betrayed you? Probably like 70, 80%. And what's the total pool of people? Like are we talking five people, 10 people, 20 people, 50 people? Maybe like 50, 20, 30, something.

So that's a shock. high number. Yeah. That's what if that's, yeah. It's just that like a lot of, I don't know. It's like, it's not just like only people that I like know really, really like well and deep and that's like, that I'm, that I've friends with for a very long time. It's also like people that that I know about and knows about me and that I've met.

And then they decide to do something a little like that's what I feel second. Can you give me an example of someone who you know and who you met? who did something to you? Like a name? No, just like an example of what they did that you felt was betrayal. Like, just like shit talking behind my back and stuff like that, hearing that that person said things about me.

How do you hear that? Because I hear other people say it and then I confront them about it. And then they say, oh, this person told me. Yeah, or I've heard that you say something on strange. or something like that, yeah. Yeah, so that sounds to me like you may have a betrayal filter, right? So when 80% of people in your life betray you, there are a couple of different reasons for that.

One is that you have a tendency to attract scumbags, which is very possible, given light, radiance, etc. Second option is that you may have a betrayal filter. So this we see a lot where, like, people, you know, when they start to feel like they've been betrayed, their mind will go and hunt other experiences that sort of, fit into their model. And another kind of random example that may feel like it's pretty far is like in cells are a good example of this. So they're kind of like convinced that they're like unattractive. And so every time that someone does something that suggests that they're attractive, they kind of ignore it. And every time there's like even like something that's in the

gray area, their mind sort of finds that as evidence. And this we see a lot. people have a lot of emotional hurt, right? So we know that like when I'm hurting, things become more painful. So people who have depression literally experience more pain from the same stimulus than someone who's like mentally feeling well. So you can deliver like the same shock or like whatever benign, like slightly painful thing. And it like hurts more when people are depressed. That could be a piece of it. I don't know how that makes. makes you feel though because I imagine it's quite invalidating. What's that word mean?

Invalidating? Like it's like I'm saying, oh, it's all in your head. I'm afraid of coming across like that. No, I think that's okay. Okay. I mean, it does sound like a shocking amount of people have, you know, betrayed you. Yeah. Especially the past two years.

And especially the past six months or five months, something. What do you think, do you think something has happened that has caused all these people, to do this? I think I give a lot to people. And when they see that I have like one boundary or something, they get really upset. That's what it feels like. Like there was like one scenario with another streamer where we,

she wanted to go travel with me. And, yeah. But I told her that I couldn't go travel with her if I didn't stream between, like this time and this time every single day. And for her, it was really, really important for me to not stream at that time because she wanted to stream and she wanted me to be on her stream while I'm not live so she could get more viewers. But I told her that this is not my hobby as it is for you.

I need to stream because the past three weeks I haven't streamed this much and I'm losing a lot of money. And I feel like scared of, yeah, like I need to stream. and she was like okay yeah yeah but she didn't really care about it and then like when we came to the moment where um where I turned my stream on and she was streaming at the same time she got really really really really mad and that's how the friendship ended just like that

yeah that felt really weird because I felt like I helped her and then when I had one boundary of like I needed a stream because I needed to survive because I was losing someone sure because yeah she didn't respect that at all. And then she just, yeah, she just left. Yeah. So that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I think that in the sense of like a big thing for me, but it's just like really weird. And I see like stuff like this happens a lot. Yeah. So I think like I mentioned some time ago, I think that like maybe what we need to talk about is boundaries. Because I do think it's possible that something about the way that you start your relationships because you are.

open because you are so caring, because you are so supportive, makes people think that you don't have boundaries. Or, and this is where if we really want to say you're guilty of something, I would not be surprised. I'd give it a 50-50 chance that there are times early on in relationships where you willingly let people cross boundaries or you don't enforce boundaries that you should. And so if we really think about where does the expectation, like so people love you, Moina, because when we talked about this last time, you put other people first. And I think actually I've seen a lot of growth in you because now what I'm hearing is like, fuck those people.

I belong somewhere. But it doesn't feel very good. It feels like that's not me feeling that way. Yeah. So I think this is where you have to start to learn how to, I think, be someone who is like somewhere in the middle. where you can be like open and loving and caring and also like set boundaries. And this is where I'd really wonder, I think a lot of this comes down to the beginning of the relationships is like when you enforce that tiny little boundary at the beginning that doesn't

mean very much, how do you feel about yourself? Selfish, I guess. There you go. Yeah. It doesn't feel good. It makes you feel really bad about myself if I don't. So I think that. That's the big problem.

It really makes me feel like a piece of shit. That's like how I feel yeah. Yeah. So is it normal? Surprisingly so. Shockingly so. But I think that's sort of like where I think honestly, Molina,

a lot of this stuff, I mean, if we want to kind of like pin it down to one thing, I mean, obviously it's more complicated than that. But I think what we're talking about is like you engaging in relationships where, you know,

someone says, hey, Malina, can you stop your stream 15 minutes early because I'm having a headache. And then in that moment, you're like, oh, my God, I would be such an asshole. I wouldn't be the person that I want to be because you have this version of yourself, which is like, you know, living in nature, being awesome, being supportive that people can

count on, taking care of your mom, all this sort of stuff, right? And then like in that moment, you sacrifice a little bit because you don't want to feel like a bad person in that moment. And then you sacrifice a little bit more and you sacrifice a little bit more. and then they kind of like move in into your personal space. And then like you finally have learned how to set boundaries. Right. So this sounds like a really, really healthy conversation that you had with this person.

Hey, I'd love to travel with you. Here's what I need. And then people get bent out of shape when you're like, hey, you remember when I told you I needed something and I actually need it? And they're like, how dare you? And this is where if you think about that, like, why would someone respond that way? It may be because in the past, you have said, hey, I need to do this. Hey, I need to do this.

And then you may have let them slide and not actually hold that boundary. Yeah. It's just like the outcome is so crazy. It just makes me think that no one really gives a fuck about me, I guess. I really feel like that moment where I said I really need a stream. I feel like that was like completely fair of me. But there's no, I can't believe like why did she get so mad? It's like so insane.

And then she just wanted, she just blocked me everywhere. So, so, Melina, this is where, I mean, that sounds like a terrible experience. I don't think you did anything wrong there. But I'm going to say something because I tend to have a bias to empower and hold the person that I'm talking to accountable for their situation. Okay. So if this comes across as unsympathetic, I apologize. I think the reason that she is that way is because you let her get away with it for so long. Yeah.

Right. And when you let people get away with something, like, they're going to take what they're used to. Mm-hmm. This is also something that's really crazy. Maybe it's true that you say that since last time we spoke, I've becoming a little bit more angry and I put more boundaries. I've heard from so many different people that, yeah, after that Dr. K talk that you had, you're becoming way more arrogant. and you're victimizing yourself all the time and they got like really, really mad for me

like standing up for myself. Like a lot of people have said that to make me feel bad. And that's really weird. I don't know. And this is like a lot, like, yeah, a lot of people that I'm known for like a long period of time. Well, apologies for ruining your relationships with those people.

And at the same time, if they're calling you, if they're calling you arrogant for standing up for yourself? Yeah. So like when you stand up for yourself and the people. Yeah. Or that I'm like, I shouldn't do that or that should be okay for me or something like that.

Or this is a stupid boundary or something like that. I've had people telling me that. Yeah. So this is a stupid boundary is how sexual assault happens. Yeah, that's true. Right? So I think you've just got to be really like, so it's very possible that you're more arrogant. it's very possible that you perceive setting your boundaries.

You call it setting your boundaries, but what you're being in real life is an asshole to the people around you. That's possible. Because I've seen that too, where someone's like, I talk to Dr. Kay, and I'm going to set my own boundaries. And my own boundaries means you can go fuck yourself.

That's being an asshole. It's possible. And this is where, where Molina, like you really may have turned into a little bit of an asshole because I think it's new for you, right? Like, you used to be so accommodating that you may have swung the pendulum too far to the other side. And so this is where, like, it takes practice between being a pushover and being an asshole.

And somewhere in the middle, but frankly, what you said, I think makes a lot of sense, at least with the streamer person, that if you had a conversation with them about what your needs are, like over time, I think people, hopefully like you, who learn this sort of stuff, end up in healthier relationships. Like when I teach someone how to stand up for themselves, everyone around them is pissed about it. And then some of them adjust, some of them don't. And then over time, they find like new friends that generally tend to be healthier relationships. So like just isn't it. Yeah. It's just crazy to me to like imagine that people can be like this and they can like be mad about other people's boundaries. It's just like so insane.

I don't know. For me, that's just like because. I don't do that. Or like for me, it's so like unbelievable to me. It's I don't understand like how he means. Here's the common threat. I wouldn't think about it as them being disrespect of your boundaries. What I would think about is what upsets people is when you confound their expectations.

So I don't think that these people are like, you know, running around being assholes, violating people's boundaries and pushing people around. I don't think that's actually what's happening. That's what that's this. That's what's what's what this particular case may look like. from your perspective. I think what's really going on is you have given people a unspoken promise and then you're taking that away. And that's what upsets people. Right? So it's sort of like, you know, it's like I'm working with someone who I'm working with a couple and one member of the

couple is decided to start eating super healthy and it started losing weight. And instead of being happy, their partner is just livid. They're so pissed off. Because now, like, it's being exposed to them, like, how unhealthy they're eating. Like, one person's trying to take care of themselves. And, like, the other person is really, really, like, upset. They're frustrated. They feel super self-conscious for eating crappy food all the time. You know, their partner is, like, getting into shape. And it is, like, one of the most toxic, difficult things. Yeah. And so you could say, I can't believe that someone would be upset that someone else wants to eat healthy. Like, of course, that doesn't make any sense.

But what's going on is we were both going to be degenerate pizza eating motherfuckers together. And then you decided to go get healthy. And now what am I supposed to do? I feel that also a lot about like, because I didn't, I didn't really stream a year ago. And then when I started streaming a lot of other people that I know that streams as well. And when I like got like more viewers than them and stuff, they started getting like really angry. And they would never want to like give me a compliment about it. They would just like shit on me.

for like doing the content that I was doing and stuff like that. Yeah. So like I said, when it comes to relationships between streamers, like numbers and quantification and one person growing and one person being left behind, like all that kind of stuff isn't complicating factor. Right. So like it's hard because it, you know, in your friend's case, did she respect your boundaries? No.

Was that nice of her? No. But then we also have to try to be like understand from her perspective. She maybe saw this as an opportunity for her. grow her stream and she kind of sees you as taking that away from her. And so it's sort of like there's a whole different angle, right? So you're saying that I have to stream because I need the money and I can't take the hit. And she's thinking the same thing. And you're thinking, how can she be so heartless? This is something I need to do for money. And she's actually having the same thoughts.

How can Molina be so heartless and take streamers away from me? She's bigger than I am. She could grow my stream. But instead, she's like picking herself over me. And both you all are like thinking the same thing. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. I really think in that case, just based on what you said, I think you're absolutely in the right there. Because if you have particular needs and you lay that out with people and someone agrees and then it turns out that, you know, you're living up to what you said.

Yeah. Thoughts? Questions? Sometimes people try to like, I don't know if it, I mean, they kind of like try to manipulate me a little bit. I don't even know if they're like conscious of like doing that. But sometimes if I can talk to people and I'm saying no or like I can't do this or something like that, they're trying to like make me feel as guilty as possible by saying a lot of really horrible things. Like what do they say?

Like my mom. My mom tried to force me to be in a call with her for two hours, saying that I am a horrible person for not wanting to talk to her and stuff like that and that if I didn't speak to her and listen to her, complain about what a shitty person I am to her because I'm not doing this and this and this, and that she's going to go kill herself, stuff like that. So, like, it's, like, really insane. And she knows she has, like, the control over me as well.

She knows she has that because I'm her daughter. and this is what she's been doing for like forever um so that was like really really hard and i couldn't hang up like i just can't physically hang up on her it's like too much and i was just like freaking out because she is like really really really making me feel so incredibly shitty about myself i'm so sorry molina that sounds terrible yeah so i tried to just avoid talking to her but then i like i get a message i'm like fuck i feel so guilty i'm like not calling her but i don't want to call her because i can't like i can't I can't talk to her because she's so deep down and she's been doing that to me since I was a kid.

That's fucked up. Yeah. I feel like if I didn't talk to her for probably like four months and then I kind of realized that all the things that I felt about her when I was a kid and that I feel still like when I talked to her is like I feel a small version of that with everyone else when stuff like this happens. But I feel that even more with her.

Yeah. And I think it comes from, I think it comes from that relationship with her as a kid. Okay. Yeah. So let's, let me think for a second. Mm-hmm. Man, Molina, you're very insightful. What does that mean? Insightful?

Yeah, sorry, I'm Swedish. You're really good at figuring things out. I think I'm pretty, I'm pretty good at connecting the dots and recognizing things. Thank you I'm just thinking about how to help you with this Mm-hmm Okay

So how you feeling right now? You feeling okay? I'm gonna point Somehow Yeah I mean I'm like very like I feel like If it was maybe like a year ago

I would probably be like very upset I wouldn't be looking very upset But right now I'm just like so numb Yeah guess. So I think part of it is numbness. Part of it is strength. So I'm going to say something. I'm going to point something out in your thought process, which is super, super tricky, okay? It may come across as judgmental because I'm going to point out your role in this, okay? Yeah, sure. So on the one hand, so on the one hand,

it sounds like your mom has been very, very emotionally manipulative, continues to be emotionally manipulative and is really chipped away at some part of you that I think like other people can like then use. Like you have a vulnerability of being emotionally manipulated by like other people needing your support. Right. And this is why at the very beginning when they're like, hey, Molina, can you stop a stream 15 minutes early?

And then you're like, I feel self-loathing if I say, no, I can't. I'm sorry. You have to give in to them. So that goes to the whole boundary thing that we were talking about. You see that? Like, that's connected. So I think the reason that you feel that way about yourself is because your mom, like, like wrote that into your programming.

So you've got this, like, one vulnerability that I suspect a lot of people. So this is where, like, you know, human beings will sniff around for, like, what they're looking for. And you may actually attract people who, like, use that vulnerability on you. Because when they need something, from you and then you're like, oh, yeah, let me give it to you. And they're like, oh, awesome. And then what they do is they start to like be a little bit emotionally manipulative and like, like you said, now we're going to get to the tricky part because you say people don't do it consciously, but they make me feel a certain way. Now this is where we're going to get really

potentially me being an asshole and potentially, you know, running against a lot of popular thought nowadays. I mean, we're like, I get a lot of criticism and I get people telling me a lot of things all the time. Yeah, so let me know if this feels critical to you, okay? So I think you've got to be careful when you're, when you tell me that someone doesn't consciously want to make you feel that way, if you feel like they're emotionally manipulating you, and the reason you say that they're emotionally manipulating you is because this person says something and I feel guilty.

That's what you call emotional manipulation, right? But that may actually have nothing to do with them. That may have everything to do with you. Yeah. Right? So that's where like I think you've got to be really, really careful where, so I, because I don't know that people are emotionally manipulating you. I think it's just in the past when you try to raise that boundary, your mom emotionally manipulates. And so your brain is doing what all brains do.

And it's learned from the past. And it's applying the past to the present. So I know that sounds kind of weird. but like, you know, every time I see a toilet that I've never used before, how do I know how to flush the toilet? It's because my brain is projecting prior toilets onto this one. And I treat this toilet like all of the other toilets. And so what your brain is doing is you had so much of this stuff from your mom

that any time someone does something that sort of looks like your mom or smells like your mom, you feel the same way that you did with your mom. And you're kind of applying it to this scenario. Yeah. Does that feel critical or invalidating to you? Okay. Because I think you are doing a piece of this. And I'd be really careful because I think some people around you are really emotionally

manipulative because they've sensed out that weakness in you. And that's how they like, they need people like that. They have emotional needs and they know that Molina's good day or night. If I'm hurting, Malina's going to drop whatever she's doing and she's going to take care of me. And then you reinforce that, right? Because you have this fucking, you don't give your. yourself a break because you want yourself to be this perfect version of yourself that your mom turned you into. Whereas like, I think you should be a little bit of a bitch. Like, that's my

favorite Molina. You know, like where you can own the space that you control and you can set some limits and like you can try to make the world a better place, but you don't have to like sacrifice yourself to do it. So I think you've got to be careful. And this goes for everyone else who's listening to that like you got to got to be careful if you start letting other people control. your feelings. Now, I think some of that stuff, like in the case of your mom or if you're in, like, you know, alcoholic parents, like, it's really hard to control that sort of stuff. But I think it quickly becomes, like, you do have some control over that. And there's this guy named Victor Frankl, who was one of the Jews who was in the Holocaust concentration camps. And he wrote this

book about man's search for meaning. And he actually went all the way to saying that the Nazis actually don't control anything about how I feel. They can kill me, but how I feel is my choice, which is drastic. Buddha said the same thing too. We don't really, you know, in the world of like microaggressions and stuff, we tend to hold other people accountable for our feelings, which I think is really dangerous territory. But I would be...

How do I change and like the way I feel about things? How do I like approach and like change my mind about how... Beautiful question. Yeah. Okay. So the first thing is that I think that you've got to give yourself time to learn how to set boundaries and recognize that like when you become confident,

sometimes what you need is like a friend group transplant. So I see this a lot in people who have social anxiety and who are dormats. Is that when we start developing confidence, they actually like will lose a lot of their friends. And like over time, they'll get new ones. Very practically, I'd strongly, strongly consider. I know this is hard during COVID. But I think that these kinds of social interactions are amplified by the stresses of streaming.

So I think the more friends that you have outside of streaming, the less of an issue this is going to be. Because when streaming, like, people's careers and livelihoods are on the line, so it, like, evokes a lot of behavior, you know? So that's one thing. So, like, continue to learn how to set boundaries. And what I would really be careful, the most important concrete piece of advice that I have for you is early on in the relationship, hold that boundary even though you feel like a piece of shit. that's the most important mistake I think you're making that you can very practically change. So when you have a new friend, it's going to come up and you've got to wait for it. They're going to say, hey, can you do...

Huh? You think the feeling will disappear after a while? Yes. But it's going to be there forever. No, I think it'll disappear. But there are other things you have to do to make it disappear. That's going to be the start. So remember, Molina, that even if that feeling doesn't disappear, when you give into that feeling,

you are going down the relationship path that leads to betrayal when you enforce a boundary. So even if it hurts to feel like an asshole, recognize that that pain and that moment and feeling like an asshole doesn't actually mean you're an asshole. You just have to feel like one. That protects you from going down the road of people taking advantage of you laying an eventual boundary and then them feeling betrayed. That's the price you have to pay. Either you feel like hated and betrayed six months from now or you feel like a little bit of a bitch today. You can also, as you're good at, right, because you've got a lot of good talents here, your tendency to confront. Check in with them afterward.

Say, hey, I'm sorry I couldn't pick you up from the airport because I had to stream. Do you think that was like, I feel kind of guilty about that? Do you feel like I was out of line? Right? Just talk to him about it. Yeah. And then they say like, oh, no, I totally get it. Like, I could just take an Uber. It's like not that big of a deal. I was a little bit disappointed. But. And then some people are going to be like, oh, yeah, you are a complete bitch. And those are the people you want to knock out of your life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that's, so the first thing is set that boundary early and often and recognize that the reason that people don't set boundaries is because of good feelings, not bad feelings. So this is tricky. Because good feelings get into, like, you want to be a good friend. You don't want to be guilty.

And so it's going to be hard to set that boundary. So set that boundary early. Okay. Next thing. So this, what you're describing is a perfect example of the Sanskrit term sumskar. So somsod is a ball of undigested emotion, which sort of lies dormant. It's like a volcano underneath the surface. And then it activates at times and like wreaks havoc on your psychology. So there are a couple of different ways to. digest a somscar. I would strongly recommend, have you ever seen a therapist about the stuff with your mom? Yeah, but that turned out really bad.

If I ask you questions about that, are we going to learn about bad boundaries more? That situation, that was, wait, I think that's like the third therapist I've ever had in mind their life, and I didn't have a therapist for a very long time. But this guy actually

tried to be sexual with me. I fucking knew it. Yeah. See? Why did you know that? Because like I said, if I ask you about this, are we going to run into another boundary conversation? Yeah.

But like, how am I supposed to, like, do about that? Like, this is supposed to be a therapist? Like, I... Yeah, that's their problem, not yours. They're supposed to see that shit, recognize that they're going to feel all kinds of weird ways about you, and, like, restrain themselves. turns out that you probably got a shitty therapist.

I'm sorry, but I'm not surprised that it happened. Okay? So this is where you've got to give it another shot, maybe find a female therapist who is not a lesbian or bisexual. That'll help. But then you're going to get other kinds of weird boundary violations there too that they need to be super careful about. But I strongly, strongly recommend that, you know, like this is the kind of thing where, like, you've been fucking traumatized. Malima. Like, this sounds bad and it sounds like it's ongoing and you deserve help. And like, we're not built to figure this out on our own. Okay? There's a whole profession that is designed to

help you with this sort of thing. Second thing that you can do is sign up for our, our creator coaching program. Do you know about this? I think I messaged you about this. So we now, like, so we're working, thankfully Twitch has been like kind enough to really support us and support their content creators where like these issues of anxiety and burnout and these sorts of boundary sort of things are like something that we is an organization are trying to support content creators with. So this is also where we have to be really careful. And if you end up signing up for this program, it's free for you, by the way. So that's thanks to Twitch. You can thank Twitch for that.

So this is where, you know, we're going to have to be really careful that your coach doesn't fall into this. So, like, if you sign out for the coaching program, like, I'm going to know who your coach is and I'm going to prep your coach because you're going to evoke particular feelings in them. And then, like, we're going to, like, help. Like, we know it's coming. So we can probably handle it. We can handle it. I'm pretty sure we can. Wait, what exactly am I doing that makes them think that they can, like, well, like, I'm really curious.

What could I even be doing, like, for people to, like, think that they can just do something like that? I'm just thinking about how I can answer that. Yeah. I'm just really curious. So here's what happens in coaching relationships and also in therapy. Okay. So Freud, are you on an academic answer because you're about to get an academic answer? I only went to high school. That's fine. I think you're... Okay.

Okay. So, so Freud basically noticed that when you're in a therapy relationship, that people will project feelings on each other. And so a lot of what a therapist feels is like not a real feeling, but it's like you and the patient are acting out of play. So for example, if you had issues of like being emotionally manipulated by your mom and you go see a female therapist, you are going to feel emotionally manipulated by her. Because like as you guys calm your mind down, and as you enter like an authentic space and those feelings come up, they're going to like want to target. Does that make sense?

It's just weird. And so sometimes in therapy, what can happen is that like, so this is something called erotic transference or erotic countertransference. You can even Google it their papers written about it because it happens shockingly a lot. And what we find is that like sometimes feelings can get tangled, right? So I shit you not. This is one of the most mind-blowingly abusive quotes I've ever heard. But one of my therapy supervisors once had a therapy supervisor that told them, so there's like a boomer, okay?

So like a psychiatrist who was like around in the 50s once said, the main thing to think about when you have sex with a patient is whether you're having sex for yourself or you're doing it for them. Oh, interesting. Right? So like, it's all fucked up. But this is where sometimes what happens is you get, especially in a therapy relationship, you feel super connected to someone. You feel like really, really close to them.

And then sometimes people don't know like what to do with those feelings of closeness. And so it sort of starts to manifest in like a sexual kind of way because they're like, oh, I feel so connected. And if you think about sexuality, like a lot of it is about emotional connection. And it can get muddled. They can get confused. And then sometimes people will like, you know, get confused. And therapists aren't perfect either.

And I do think that there's something about the radiance that you display that is like flies going to honey towards like a particular kind of person. You have a particular vulnerability that like gets people to like leach onto you. And this is the kind of thing where that therapist is that's fucking that's terrible. But like, holy shit, you can see that coming from. mile away. It felt really weird, too, because, like, when I kind of, like, made excuses not to go there, he would kind of, like, make me feel guilty. See, I told you, he's going to do it to you.

Yeah. He's going to make you feel guilty. Yeah. That's the sumscar. It's the whole, like, it's like, textbook. Right? And that's where, like, with a good therapist, what you should say if you guys are, like, here's a little bit of education about therapy.

If you guys are feeling reluctance to go see your therapist, tell them about it. And this is where like the right move as a patient is, hey, I feel like there's a weird energy here when I come here. And it may be a little bit sexual, just confront them, Molina. And say that I sometimes feel emotionally manipulated into coming here. And I feel deeply uncomfortable about it. That'll bring awareness to it. He also said that I didn't have to pay anymore and stuff. That was really weird.

Yeah. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Okay? That's really weird. That's... Boundaries. It's all about boundaries.

Mm-hmm. Okay? Mm-hmm. So sometimes I will stop accepting money from people in a therapy relationship, but never because I like them so much. Mm-hmm. The only reason that I stop accepting money is because people can't afford it, in which cases.

It's like, I'm not going to stop taking care of you as your doctor just because you're fucking broke. Yeah. Right? So, like, they're like good reasons. So that's also like a policy that I lay out with people that I see at the beginning. But yeah, this sounds bad, Malina. Like, yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, that's why I started, like, to not really, like, open up a lot about how I felt about things. I don't know, everything. It feels like every single time I start talking. Like, I don't know. It just feels like stuff like that happens. Do you feel emotionally manipulated by me? No. Okay.

I don't think so. If we keep talking, it'll happen. You really think so much. Absolutely. And that's where we could really work on it. Right? So like when it comes up, then we would talk through it and you'd like learn how to digest it. So anyway, more practical advice.

So how can you move forward? So first thing is, is, you know, like I said, Think about boundaries. Be a little bit more of an asshole to people early on in relationships. Yeah. This is also something that is like really weird. It's like last time and this happens like this is happening already. So like last time I talked to you,

there was so many people that knows that they hurt me so much in the past would like come back and try to like, I don't know, like be nice to me or something like that. But then I would just realize that they wanted something as well. So it was just like really weird too. And like, I don't know. It's like, and then I feel bad for like not rip. You know? Yeah.

And they know that too. They know that I'm feeling bad about it too. Yeah. So this is where. Like don't message me if you hurt me. Fuck. I don't want anyone to do that after this session. Okay.

Fuck off. That's like how I because I can't do it. I don't want to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about that. Okay.

So this is great. So it's like the same patterns. You see that? It's like patterns. And that's sort of good. It sucks for you because it's. sounds awful. But it's also like hopeful because if there's a pattern and you change the whole pattern, your entire life will start to be like different. So this is where like, you know,

if people do reach out to you afterward because they hurt you and they're feeling guilty, you know, you can have a mature, I mean, this is where I wouldn't tell them to go fuck off because you can get some closure there. I mean, you can tell them to go fuck off. But when you're ready, I think it's useful to have conversations about closure. Yeah. And you can say, hey, I haven't talked to you in eight months. Just speak plainly. Okay, I'm going to give you a playbook for this. Yeah, okay. So if they're watching this, they'll know the playbook too.

But this is good. This is good. So just speak plainly and be like, be like, okay. What is she doing? No, no, this is good. This is good. It's healthy for them too. It's healthy for everybody.

So just be like, hey, I haven't heard from you in eight months. Is there a particular reason that you're reaching out to me now? And then they'll say, they'll make some, like they won't actually say it. They'll be like, oh, I was just wondering how you're doing. And then you can say, I'm doing okay. Thank you for asking. period. And then that's it. If they want to engage in a conversation, if they push it further, you just let them know how you feel. And you can say, hey, I really felt like, you know,

last time we talked like eight months ago, you said some things to me that I felt like were sort of like a betrayal. I'm a little bit confused about what you want from this relationship. Yeah. And then if they, and this is where like you're going to, when you say things like that, you're going to feel guilty because you're like, oh my God, I'm making them feel bad. Oh, how dare I tell them that they hurt me when they hurt me so much? I can't tell them that they did that.

Look at how much of a bitch I would be. Right? But you need to be authentic with them and just say, hey, what you did hurt me. And then get like, and then they can say, well,

that's because you were being a bitch. And then that's fine. They can go fuck themselves, right? You'll see. is sometimes they'll say that and then sometimes they'll say yeah i'm really sorry about that i'm sorry i hurt you it could be could go either way but either way you get closure and then if you also here's also thing this is like so insane i had like one person do this and then i found out that

this person was just doing that to like try to get information about me so they could go shit talk to other people about me or try to like sit and laugh basically it's like really weird i don't know like yeah i don't know, I don't know what about you, why you attract all the drama hores. I don't know. That is beyond my expertise. There's like a part of me that is really like this person, like this person is a fucking idiot and I can see like exactly what they're doing. But then like I just feel, you know, like yeah, the bad. So, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't tell them, you know, if they're like, hey, Malina, how are you doing? And if you say, hey, I can see what you're doing, you're, you're being a fucking manipulative asshole and you're just trying to get information. That, that's going to make you

sound like a crazy lady. Yeah. It's like, I was just asking you if you wanted to come on stream because we're playing among us. They're like, right? So just be like, so you want to test the waters, right? So you want to be authentic and be, oh, hey, I haven't heard from you in a while. What's going on?

And then if the relationship advances, you can let them know, hey, you know, I'm not quite sure like where this is going to go because I still feel like pretty hurt and betrayed about like your actions eight months ago. you know, are we going to just state it. So this is another thing is like you, like I want to teach you a little jiu-jitsu trick, okay? Verbal jiu-jitsu, which is that you don't ask questions, you just make statements. And then you just be silent. And then you see what they come back with.

Some people may authentically want to repair their relationship with you, or they may want to have an authentic conversation about they felt hurt and betrayed about something that you did. But then I think you guys should talk about it. But the key thing is that when you, you know, you feel that guilt, like don't give into it. Don't do the action that alleviates the guilt. Because that's exactly what your mom taught you to do that gets you into trouble with her. Because then you give into the guilt and then you find yourself in a situation that you detest. Yeah.

Okay. So, okay, where was I? All right. So number one, you know, set boundaries and don't, it's actually on you. I think you're the one who's lax on them and you let people get away with it. it. And then they're going to get frustrated. So be careful about that guilt early on when you set boundaries. Work with a therapist or sign up for a coach. I think this is definitely the kind thing that you should work on. It's something that our coaches are actually pretty good at.

And I think also the two aren't mutually exclusive. So about maybe 20% of people who come into coaching wind up with a therapist because our coaches will say, hey, I really think you should see a therapist. You can do both of them if you want to, whatever. But I really, I really really think that you should, you know, get a therapist or a coach or whatever. Just get some, get someone who owes you nothing, right? Get someone in your life like Stephen or, it sounds like sometimes your mom is supportive, but that's tangled, right? So like you and Stephen are going to have other kinds of tensions on your relationship. It also sounds like for whatever reason you were confiding in Bob instead of Stephen, which sort of makes sense. I confide in people that are not

my wife because she's my wife. She confides in people that are not me because... In your relationship exactly. And then you like, can you vent to someone that is worth like partner? So, Malina, I think it's going to be very healthy for you to have someone in your life who the boundaries are very clear. You don't have to do shit for them. There's not, they're not sacrificing any viewership on stream by being your friend or

anything like that where there is like one human being in your life that for one hour a week is there for you in whatever you feel. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. Thoughts, questions? No, I think this was really good. Yeah, this is, yeah, it makes me like a little bit more. It's very easy.

Like, if I talk to Steven about this, he would basically just say, like, don't give a shit about what they think. Just move on. And it's like, okay. Like, I was as opposed to like, I mean, I understand what you mean and you're right. But like, but it's kind of hard to just. just like feel that, right? Like, it's just hard to do that. So it feels good to like how someone explaining to me, like how things work. Then it's easier for me to like understand myself and

like know like what to do. Like you think sounds logical and what you say sounds logical to me. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you found it useful, Melina. You know, I think by like I'm really hopeful for you for what it's worth. I think you, you're a very different person than the way you were in April. I'm sorry. Yeah. Interesting. You should go watch that interview. I hate watching myself.

I can't do that. I hate watching myself too. I can't watch it either. But anyway. I never like if there's like, oh no, there's a clip of me that's popular. I don't. I can't watch it either. I don't give a shit about what other people think about me like that.

I don't really care about hate or anything. But I, yeah. Yeah, but I can't watch my, I can hear my voice. I can't say that. So I think you've learned how to start putting yourself first, and I think it's complicated. You may be going too far. You may actually, because I think there's one last thing that I would mention, which is that, you know, when people dislike you, you've got to be really careful about these answers like, oh, it's because they hate me. Like, they may actually have a genuine complaint, which may have merit.

Right? If people, like, want to get you canceled, like, got to be careful, because I'm pretty. sure that a lot of people who have gotten canceled would say the same thing, which is like, oh, haters are going to hate. They're trying to get me canceled. Whereas, like, some of them are really doing things that are out of line. Now, I can't envision you doing some of the things, but, like, you know, there may be a legitimate criticism in there. I don't know. Yeah. It's just, it's just, I don't know. Sometimes I just wonder, like, how people can, like, I don't know. I don't like cancer culture. I really don't like that at all. I don't like it either.

yeah it's really weird it's a really weird thing um i don't know it's really weird the same people do that is it makes me a little sad i think to see that people want to try to do that because the only thing they can see is like they can't really see like what's going on i guess or they can't like have any um they can't really see how the other person is like feeling about anything and they're seeing this like this they're seeing if they try to cancel me they don't seem as a human. That's what I feel like. Yeah.

And that's really really weird because I try to see everyone. It's like, I try to understand everyone, you know. I try to, um, that's what I feel also like guilty because I try to like understand all the time. Like, why is this person doing? Yeah. But it's weird to like see that people don't do that. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I have a weird response to that, which is like trying to understand people all the time is being a saint. It's not being a human. So you should let yourself be human. Just like, just assume the worst and hate them. No, not assume the worst and hate them, but like let yourself feel hatred, right? Because that's human. You have parts of your brain that are wired to help you feel hatred. And so like let yourself feel the full range of things. And that's okay. And I think you've been, so this is kind of weird, but like, you know, if you take a neutron and then you split it up into a proton and an electron, like with that

positive charge, you create the negative charge. And I think for a lot of time, Malina, your positivity is like creating this like carmic negativity on the other side. And so, you know, when you're like way, way too positive with people, like it winds up with like negative things. Yeah. When you're overly forgiving, overly indulgent, overly enabling, you create little brats as children, right, if you're like a parent. So like just be a little bit aware of that and it's okay to feel hatred. It's okay to feel those things. Don't let them dictate your actions, but don't let the guilt or the other, the positivity dictate your actions as well. Hmm. Yeah. It's almost like, um, interesting. Wait, it's, it's like a little bit of the same

as like having sex with someone because he felt bad for that. It's not good to do that at all. But sometimes he feels so bad for someone so you're like, oh yeah, maybe I can do that. Like, you know, like, maybe I can just like let him, you know, that sounds so fucked up. But like, this is definitely a thing that I think people do sometimes. No, I think it's a good example of, you know,

doing something with good intentions that doesn't end well. Yeah. It's like not good for anyone, I think. But it's like, I don't know. And Belita, I don't know how to say this, but if you're pitifucking people, you know, that may cause problems in your interpersonal life. Yeah, exactly. Especially with the people that you're pity fucking. I'm not doing that.

I can't believe we've been talking about this for an hour and a half and it comes down to pity fucking. Not doing that. Okay, good for you. Yeah. Good for you. All right. Yeah. And on that note.

No, seriously, though. I think you're, I think you've grown a lot. I think you still have a lot of growing to do. You know, I think it's okay to feel hatred, but also to really try to be like reflective of people's criticisms. And really try. I think it's like find out about this sort of things like early on. Like I'm only 22.

So it's kind of nice to like. Yeah, because I assume like the kind of, I mean, maybe is this true? Like the older you get, the harder it's going to be to like get out of like old patterns. technically yes but in your case you've got eight to ten years after which it gets hard your brain is still pretty malleable

for another decade yeah I mean my brain is still growing I guess yep right yeah so maybe it's like good to like find out like old like bad patterns so I would say technically

it does become harder like according to our understanding of neuroscience but practically I've seen people who are 40 50 and 60 change a lot. Yeah. Like patterns that they've lived with their entire life, like turning them around in a year or two.

That's really nice. Yeah. That's cool. I'm happy to hear. Yeah. Okay. So I normally I ask people if they want to meditate, but I just don't know what it is about today.

I don't think I can teach you meditation for which I apologize. That's fine. If you really, really want to learn it, I can try to recalibrate myself and see what I can come up with. but just something about, I don't know what it is. I'm just, the parts of my mind that access what meditation is appropriate for people or is like not functioning right now.

Okay. I could try to do it if I start talking to someone. Do they do meditation as well? The coaches? Not much. But it's something that we're actually going to do advanced training for them now. So like they've learned a lot of good stuff. but I think the next thing that we're going to teach him is like more meditation.

But as healthy gamer, we're coming up with additional meditation resources. I think meditation is so nice. I just feel like it's been really hard to like try to do something like that. But I remember there was like I came to some point in my life where I just felt really, really bad. And then I just like took two weeks off from everything. And the only thing that I did was like moving my body, like go on walks, go run, meditated so much. did a lot of mushrooms. So I just completely disconnected from like myself almost and just like step out of myself for like two weeks straight.

And I felt really, really good about doing that. But it's hard when it comes to streaming because you feel stressed all the time. Like even when you turn off to stream, you feel like you're still working, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. That was really nice. So meditation would be probably really, really good. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm sorry. I just got enough. I can meditate on my own, I think. Okay. Especially after like hearing you say these things, is like really good for me too. Because now I feel like you have a bigger understanding.

And that's really nice. Yeah. Okay. Like, yeah, I was kind of like stuck in my head and now you kind of like opened up like a new path a little bit. That's, I'm happy to hear that. I hope it's a fruitful path for you to walk down. I'm rooting for you.

I think I think you're growing more than you give yourself credit. for. That's really nice to hear because I feel like I'm just like, whoof, like I'm just going down there. But maybe like, you know, no, no. It's cool to hear that you're telling me that I'm like growing, but I'm just feeling bad because I'm growing. Yeah, so that's the tricky thing, right?

So growing isn't fun. Like learning isn't fun. Mm-hmm. You know, if you think about like a kid who's like throws temper tantrums to get their way and they're learning how to not throw temper tantrums to get their way. get their way. It's not fun for the kid. They want to just throw a temper tantrum and get their way. They don't want to like restrain their emotions and grow. So like growth is usually unfortunately painful, which is why

actually our learning circuitry is very closely tied to our negative emotion circuitry. Because why if you like touch a hot pan, you'll learn like that. Right? So in a weird way, you know. But anyway, so good luck to you. You know, keep us posted. And, you know, if you do decide to go, you know, definitely worthwhile to see an actual therapist. But if you want to take advantage of the coaching program, I think I already sent you some information about it. But if you run into trouble, you can always let us know. You can also talk to your Twitch account manager about it. Okay.

Take care. Good luck. Yeah, you too. Bye-bye.