HealthyGamerGG - I Did Everything Right, Why Am I Still Sad?

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

Today Dr. K talks about chasing goals, happiness, completionism, expectations, and more! Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I have thought about the achievement of getting to high school, getting to college, getting to everything, and every time I keep thinking the next one is going to be the one, but it never is. Can you tell me what you go by, please? Yeah, Asper's. Asper? Welcome, Asper. How are you feeling today? I'm doing fine. I'm a bit nervous, but yeah. So I guess I say what I come here, like, how am I feeling? Yeah, sure. If you're open to it.

So this is actually really good timing because just really recently I got a really important life goal in my life. And I just noticed I'm not really feeling too excited about it. I just kind of boredom more than any other thing. Okay. So yeah, that's a bit of the thing of how I'm feeling and just I'm disappointed. So this would be a high in my life and just nothing's changed really. I see. So by got a life goal, you mean you achieved a life goal?

Yeah, sir. So, yeah, I just graduated from college. Okay. And so you climbed to the top of the mountain, the view isn't what you thought it would be. Yeah, it's just, I don't know. You always imagine it's going to be so intense, so great, and then you come here and so, okay, I'm still just here. Okay. Exactly the same as I was the day before.

Okay. So, first of all, congratulations at graduating from college. Okay, thank you. I think it is an achievement. But what I'm hearing is that it's not, how are you expecting to feel? I don't know, because you always feel like we work by, like, you have, you start something and you say, okay, when I finish, imagine, when I finish primary school. okay now that's my goal finish primary school

and then when you finish you go to high school okay let's finish high school and then when you finish you go to college and now I finish college and now it's like so now do I retire yeah

it's just you don't look past that you just work by frames and then suddenly this frame was ended and I thought this would be a high achievement and it's just I don't know like life's going really smoothly but feels so pointless.

Yeah, I think, can I just repeat back kind of what I heard, Asper? Sure. So we like focus on a goal, right? And the idea is that once we get to the end of the road and we achieve that goal, we will be happy. Because you work really hard and you sacrifice to get to this goal. And then you finish primary school and then you finish high school and then you finish college. But like everything that you've worked for doesn't just, it doesn't like, magically, you just don't feel like happy and accomplished all of a sudden, even though you've

done exactly what you set out to do. And so now you're kind of like, where is the achievement actually? Like, where does it feel good? How does it feel good? Yeah. It's like we're just chasing constantly something and I don't even want it. I just want to change, chase it and I don't even know why. Just start to bother. Like, did you really want to chase that? Good. I know it sounds kind of weird, Asper, but I think that's a fantastic way to think and feel. Does that sound weird? I mean, I agree with you. It makes sense in my head. I'm not sure if it makes sense for the rest of people. So I think this is where like what you're doing, Asper, is like, you know, I haven't asked you how old you are and stuff like that. But like, I think this is what really growing up is about.

So we're told our entire life to do particular things. And we're told if you do these things, then you will be happy. But somewhere along the way, we have to sort of discover what happiness means for us, whether following the script. And there's still good reasons to, you know, graduate from college without it sort of making us feel happy forever. But I think now is a really important, because like, I'm glad you're learning this now, actually, because I've worked with some people who are a little bit, I'm assuming older than you are, but maybe you're older, who knows.

But there are a lot of people who will, we sort of call it a treadmill, right, or like stair steper where you're, you keep on achieving stuff and then it's what, what's next? It's like, okay, college, now you have to get this job. You start out as an analyst, then you get promoted to an associate, then you get a promoted to a senior associate, then you get promoted to a vice president, then you get a promoted to a senior vice president. people are like, when does this get fun? Yeah, exactly.

That's what I was thinking. Like, when does the fun come? Like, just, when is it coming? Yeah. So what do you think? When do you think it comes? I don't know. Just like one year before, I thought the fun would come when I graduated.

Yep. Now I don't know. It'll come when you get the, do you have a job? Are you getting a job? Asper? No, I mean, I graduated like, like, week, so I haven't had time to even... Yeah, so I'm sure it'll come when you find the job, right?

I don't know anymore. Good. I'm glad you're actually one step ahead of the game if you're not thinking, okay, like it'll come when I have the job. Because then if you get the job, you know what? You'll say next. It'll come when I get promoted. Oh, I was going to say it'll come when I retire.

Yeah, and eventually it'll come when you retire. Yeah, that's a great way. That's how to, you know, so you live your whole life so that you can have fun for the last, you know, 20 years. And then you retire. That sounds awful. It is awful. So here's the thing. Enjoyment is not about achievement, which is really confusing for a lot of people.

You know, people say it's about the journey, not the destination. Have you heard that before? Yeah, I have. Yeah. And the thing is, like, what do you think about that? So experience why it makes sense, but it doesn't make sense to me. Then why do we chase achievements so much if it isn't even rewarding? Like I have thought about the achievement of getting to high school, getting to college,

getting to everything, and every time I keep thinking the next one is going to be the one, but it never is. So why do we do that? That's a good question. What do you think? I have no idea honestly. So I think there are two or three big reasons. The first is that we look at people who have achieved,

who appear to be happy, and we can't duplicate internal work, but we can duplicate external work. Does that make sense? Yeah, so like if you see someone happy, you say, I'm going to do the same thing. Exactly. He's achieved so much.

So we as human beings, what we notice, what, like, we can't measure what goes on in someone's mind. But we can measure what they do. Right. Can you repeat that last part? Yeah. So, like, we can see what they do. We can't see what happens in their mind. Oh, yeah, definitely.

So then, so that's a piece of it. So that's where like, like, I don't know if this makes sense, but. So, you know, when I was. studying to become a monk, what people noticed is that, like, monks don't eat, like, very tasty food. Like, they don't eat, like, unhealthy, like, they don't eat cakes and cookies and things like that, right? So what people assumed is they're like, okay, if I want to be spiritual, I need to restrict

my eating. And if I stop eating tasty food, then I will become more spiritual, and I will learn to control my desires and all that. kind of stuff. Does that make sense? Yeah. The problem is they're confusing what comes first. It's not restricting food that allows a monk to not eat to become like in control. It's their ability to like take a step back from desires.

They conquer the desire first and then it makes no difference what they eat. Does that make sense? Yeah. So like, okay, I think I get it. It's like it's not that they. eat healthy stuff to get in control, but it's just a consequence. Yes. So once they become in control through their meditative practice, then they don't care what they eat, right? Because they're no longer controlled by their desires. The problem is that

what people see is, oh, look, that person is in control of their desires and they never eat pizza. Therefore, if I do what they do, I will become in control of my desires. Does that make sense? Yeah. So like if you go to, like I may have seen people that are graduating, like they're working and they're happy. And so I thought, okay, so they have graduated and are happy. And so I will be happy if I graduate too. Exactly.

Right. So we sometimes get confused between, you know, where does the happiness come from? Does it come from the achievement? Because the achievement is what we see. what we don't see, for example, so we've had a couple people who have called in today who have done therapy

for a year or two or many. So when we see someone who's like, so there are a couple people called in today who had their life together. And when you see someone who has their life together, you see them going to work, you see them whistling and stuff like that,

and you're like, I don't know how this person happened. You never see the two years they spent in therapy. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So why do we like focus on achievement? Because it's the only thing

that's easily measurable. You can't measure the internal work that people do to find happiness. That's the first reason. Reason number two is that there are advantages towards prioritizing this kind of stuff. And we sort of know that like, you know, if you're like homeless and you have no money and have no relationships, the chances that you're happy are lower, right? So there is some correlation scientifically with achievement and happiness. Like, at least you're not beating yourself up for dropping out of college or failing out of college. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I guess that's making sense. So there is some kind of correlation there. But basically, it's like what we can measure. And the third thing is that when we are unhappy, the mind does something very, very subtle. It looks at what we don't have and assumes that getting that thing will make us happy. Right? Okay. So if I'm lonely, I assume that a relationship will make me happy. If I haven't graduated from college, what someone will do is they'll look at you. They'll look at aspirin. They'll be like, I feel so bad about myself. I failed out of college. If I had graduated, I would have been happy today. If I was in a relationship, I would be happy today. If I was promoted, I would be happy. So they look at their own unhappiness, and they assume that an external thing would be happy. fix their happiness, which is why we chase achievement.

Okay. I have one question. Great. So I think I get what you mean. The thing now is then how the hell am I supposed to be happy? Fantastic question. Like, I don't know. My whole life has always been like those frames.

And so if this is not giving me happiness, then what am I supposed to do? Beautiful. Okay. So have you ever been happy? I mean, I guess. Well, it's, I have had moments of happiness, but in the sense, like, being comfortable, like, in long term, I don't think so.

There's always like, no, I'm not ready yet. Not ready for what? To be happy. Oh, so I'm not. Sure, I understood that. What do you mean by not ready to be happy? It feels like there's this, feels like you haven't completed the game yet.

If the bounty is happiness, you still have to, you still have a lot of like quests. Yes, yes. Until you get those quests, you can't really be happy. That's, unfortunately, that's how my brain said. Excellent.

And that's why you're not happy. right? I guess. Because you're assuming that you have to do all these things to be happy. So now, Asper, you're in a beautiful place. Okay. So you have to now learn what is happiness and where does it come from. So let's think about this. Like, so the first is you have this assumption that it comes from achievement. And so now you're in the phase of your life where you have to like figure out where happiness comes from. And the interesting thing is that we actually have. And very clear answers about where happiness comes from. So, but we just don't teach this stuff, okay? So let's try to teach you in a moment the secret to happiness in life. So you said there are moments of your life where you've been happy, right? But you're not happy, like, globally or permanently. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's important to say, like, when I say, what I think about

happiness, like happiness in as in long term, I feel like being comfortable, with both my situation and myself. Like, yeah, being happy about it. Like, yeah, this is good. Okay. Are you comfortable with yourself in your situation? I feel like there's so much work to do. I feel like, like, I just got out of college.

So now my brain's like, no, you're not ready until you get like really achieved professionally. And like you are able to have your own house, for example. I don't know. Okay. So I think those are all good goals. But I think what you should do is pay attention to your happiness as you move towards them. So do you feel more, because like one step is college, right?

So do you feel like happier now that you're done with college? I mean, a big weight has been off my shoulders. But overall, the reaction my, like my brain has had, has been pretty underwhelming. Okay, good. So let's understand theories of happiness. So number one theory of happiness is that happiness is like building a house. where I can put up the frame, I can then put on the roof, I can then add the windows, I can put in a door, I can put in the kitchen, I can put in the plumbing, the bathroom,

and all that kind of stuff. But the house isn't complete until everything is done. So it's not like I even feel 10% when 10% of that house is completed, I don't feel like I have 10% of a house. Does that make sense? It's not a home until it's like once you hit 100% completion rate, then you have a home. So happiness could be like that, where you can go to college, you can get a job, you can buy a house. And once everything is done, then you will be happy at the end when you're 60 years old.

Right? Yeah, I think that's definitely how my mind sees. That's how we sort of think about it, is the happiness, the completionist approach to happiness. But let's think about the, so you've never felt permanently happy, right? No, definitely. I don't think so. Right? And that's where the completionist theory is.

It's like we say like, okay, once everything is done, then you'll be permanently happy, right? Yeah. Okay, do we know that permanent happiness exists? I don't know. You do hear stories and people saying that, yeah, they achieved happiness. Yeah, so. They got the achievement called happiness. Yeah, and what do they say about it?

Have you ever talked to them? Um, well, not from the top of my head. I don't know if I can think of someone that says that and I have. Oh, talk to them. Okay, right? So, like, this is a great place to start. Is like, have you met someone who you feel is permanently happy? No, probably not.

Okay. So now this is kind of scary, ask for, because we're chasing something that may not exist. Right? Yeah. If it does exist and we meet people, we could just ask them, hey, how did you become happy? And we can just listen to what they say, right? But then they will say, like, each one has to have their own home. You can just copy other.

person's home and assume that will give you. Hold on. Don't do that. You're coming up with answers that are not based in reality. Yeah, I mean, that's like what the mind would say. Yeah, so that's what your mind says, right? Because you're not permanently happy. So the whole point is we're not going to trust that organ.

Because like if we meet someone who's super happy, we can ask them and see what they say. So what does, what do you know about happiness? What I do know of how, I hope. Well, now I'm not so. Sure. No, but they're good. So now we're going to start questioning things, but what do you know about times in your life where you've been happy? Like, have you ever been happy for even a brief period of time?

Yeah, I was. Yeah, so tell me about it. So there's maybe a bit too specific and silly, but the recent one was, I was playing monster hunter with a friend. And just there's a, in the final boss, there's a moment where you like activate something called the Dragonator. and you attack the final boss and then this really epic music kicks in. And I was really happy at that moment. I was feeling it. I think that's the recent most happy moment I had.

Okay. Everything was so epic. Okay. And so let's unpack that a little bit. What do you think it was that made that moment happy? I don't know. everything was like so epic. I was like having so much fun

and I felt really immersed at the moment and I was with a friend and we were both like, yeah, let's go. Yeah, it was a little bit of everything, I guess. Okay, a little bit of everything, meaning what were the components?

Fun game, epic music, friends winning, I guess. and just entering kind of that low state in the game. Ah, interesting. Okay. So if you were to play Monster Hunter again with a friend

and you were to beat the game again or fight the final boss, would you be equally happy? We did repeat the final boss yesterday, and I got close to that point. Maybe not the first, because the first time you're just like, you don't expect that, the music and everything, it was just the first time for everything,

but it did get close. Okay. You know, the game clicked, and I felt really comfortable playing, and like the moves were snapping into place, I guess. Okay. So, I think there's a lot of answers here. So, first of all,

so you did it with a friend. It was a particular boss. It was the end of the game. Music is the same both times, right? Mm-hmm. So, like, if all of the circumstances are the same, why isn't the happiness the same? What's different between time number one and time number two? The expectation, I guess.

Okay, so that's really important, right? So you could say it's the novelty. So one option is that in order to be happy, we have to keep on doing new stuff. And so what that means is that I can never eat at the same restaurant twice, because that's going to reduce my happiness. I can never be in the same relationship for longer than six months because dating more people means more happiness. I can't play the same video game over and over and over and over and over again.

I have to constantly be playing new video games, right? Does that, what do you think about that? No, that would be a complete train rate. Okay, so it's not novelty. And yet there's a difference between time number one and time number two. And you come down to this phrase expectation. So, have you seen Morbius? I have not.

Nor, I have seen most of the memes. I'm actually quite lost. I don't really know why Morbius is all over the place. Right? So, like, Morbius is a great example of expectation. So some people, even they re-released the movie because they were like, oh, this is such a meme. Everyone's, everyone's so, it's so funny, people will enjoy the movie because it's so bad.

But it's like, it's a classic example of like, just everything with expectation going wrong. It's a crap movie. It's a meme, but no one's going to enjoy it even if it's a meme. So the first thing to understand about happiness is expectation. So if I, so like getting a gift on your birthday that you really, really love is fantastic. Do you think you would enjoy that gift more or less if you got it on a day that was not your birthday?

Yeah, I think, I think I'd get it. Like, if I got it just some random day and I didn't expect it, I, it would be like, it would be more of a surprise, like a pleasant surprise. Right? So now let me ask you a question. So let's say I get a mediocre gift on a random day of the week. And I get a mediocre gift on my birthday. Which one am I going to enjoy more?

I should definitely like to enjoy more than mediocre like in a random day. Right? Because even if I get the same damn gift on my birthday and it's mediocre, what am I going to feel? Disappointed. What the? It's the same day of a gift. But on one day it results in disappointment. And on another day, it's a pleasant surprise.

Yeah. And so I see what you did. And so here we are. Like we're looking at, oh, like look at that person has a new Apple watch. They must be so happy. Has nothing to do with the Apple Watch. They could be happy. But it's all around the circumstances of our mind.

So you mentioned a couple of other things. So the first thing that I want you to think about is expectation. Because what's different? I didn't expect the music to be so epic. By the way, Asper, thanks for ruining the end of Monster Hunter for everyone. Because now we know it's going to be an epic experience. And none of us are going to enjoy it quite as much. Oh, I'm so sorry.

You get what I'm saying? I'm joking. I didn't say what monster Yeah, sure But now we know that there's epic music, right? So the moment that we start to expect something Our happiness is going to decline Yeah

Second thing is you said you were immersed in Monster Hunter You're feeling it, right? You are completely there in the present moment Yeah So this is where there's a very old, very simple principle You can't be anxious in the present, and you can't have regret in the present. Anxiety is in the future, and regret is in the past.

Can you repeat that last part? Yeah, so anxiety is in the future and regret is in the past. Okay. So when my mind is making a mistake, I'm totally fine. Regret happens afterward. When I'm about to make a mistake and after I've made a mistake, my mind can be disturbed. but when I'm immersed in the present is when I'm having a really good time. Does that make sense?

That's kind of mind blowing. It feels right. Yep. Right? So now you have to experiment with this stuff. So this is why people love the flow set. Because even if you're thinking about work, people say, okay, work isn't fun. But I've had times of my life.

Like, this is actually close to one of where I'm having a blast. I'm working right now. Right? It's all about being present. and free of expectation. If you do two things, you will be happy. It's simple. I...

This is already helping because I already catch myself thinking, like, yeah, I should be a streamer. Okay. So it was like, so you're happy working and you're a streamer. I should be a streamer too, therefore I be happy. But I catch myself thinking. Yeah, you've got to be very dangerous. I'm not, I don't think, I don't think this, I'm just talking to someone. I just happen to be streaming.

I don't think of myself as a streamer. I'm, you know, but what... What do you mean? You're the best. Well, I appreciate that, but I, you know. So this is why this is the other thing, Asper, that I'll tell you is that there's also this idea that there is, that happiness is like a permanent state that you can achieve. And the more that we sort of try to like make a life that will automatically give us happiness, is when we really shoot ourselves in the foot.

Yeah. Because the truth of the matter is that happiness is about the present moment, and you can't be happy forever. And it's that thought that everyone's like, I want to make happiness like guaranteed. It's the guarantee of happiness that prevents us from ever being happy. Does that make sense?

Once you start to realize that happiness is only temporary, that's the most it ever gets. It transforms the way. way that you live your life. Because then it's... It's more like living the moment. Exactly. And then you also appreciate because you recognize that the joy that I feel in this

moment, there is no way to make it last forever. This is only going to last for this moment in time. So, man, I'm going to enjoy every second of it. The music is epic. I have the Dragonator. My friend is here. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that I will never be able to get back. And then you start to live your life with intensity and

passion that is completely foreign to everyone who's looking for a promotion. The really bizarre thing is that when you start living your life this way, you start getting promoted because you're doing your work with passion and intensity and your boss sees it and you're like, wow, this person is amazing. And then they promote you. And everyone sees you. They're like, this person is promoted and they're loving life. Therefore, I should get promoted to. And what they don't realize is what's on the inside. I mean, it makes a sense.

I'm, it makes too much sense. So I'm a bit like, Stan. You just stun lock me, that's okay. Okay, well, thankfully there's no,

there's no KEO coming. It's just a stun lock and I'm going to wait till the stun goes off. No. Right? Oh, no, that was great. So Asper, I want you to start studying yourself.

Look for happiness today. alone. Now, this doesn't mean that you should live a life of hedonism. Because even if you try that, you'll discover that that's not the case. Because we've already figured out, oh, I'm playing Monster all day long is not going to make you happy. Right? You've already, like, you just, that's it. That was just the one chance. And you can go chasing games time and time and time. It's not going to work. What you'll actually discover is other things will kind of make you happy. What you'll really discover is it's not, happiness is not in the object itself, fundamentally, but it's in here.

And it's in your presence and your expectation. And once you realize that happiness is temporary, then you'll start to really love life. That was great. Awesome. Okay. Good luck to you. Thanks a lot, Dr. Kay.

You're very welcome. That was like I expected it to be useful, but not so much. like okay okay well we'll only disappoint you next time well maybe

maybe like the second time we beat the monster it's still it's still going to be good okay well I'm glad it was useful to you Asper it was an absolute pleasure for me yeah I'm glad and hopefully people can relate to this

oh I think everyone's relating to it it's a really common problem where we're taught to chase happiness without even being taught what it is. So, so, like, sometimes just, I want to say, like, sometimes get hard, because you see in the community all of these people that have all of these problems and things,

and then you're always like, so where's the space for people who actually have it okay? Like, I'm, my life's going perfectly fine and still, so, I don't know, it's kind of weird, but it feels good. to hear that I still have problems that can be solved. It's not like, yeah, this is the peak of life. My life is perfect.

No, it's not. Asper, you're just getting started. Sorry, yeah, I tend to do that. I'm sorry. No, no, that's great. No, I love it. It makes me happy to hear. I'm very excited for the journey that you're just beginning to walk.

And I'm very, I think you're quite blessed to discover this confusion at such an early age. Because what people will do is they'll live their whole life, assuming, that next year they'll be happy. And their entire life will pass them by. Hopefully that's nothing. I don't think it is. And I also want to really appreciate what you said, that sometimes this community becomes

the most prominent voices are the ones that are suffering, and we're here to help those people too, for sure. But I think that part of what this community is is it's more than just, you know, those people. Those people absolutely belong here. But everyone is allowed, no matter whether you're advanced in life or not advanced in life or however you want to rank it, everyone's welcome here and we're here to support everyone and help everyone grow. Whether you're a seed, a sapling, a tree, we're still here to help you grow, no matter how far you are.

And I really appreciate your perspective. Yeah, like the feeling that you don't deserve to suffer because you're doing so well. Yeah, no, but so as we'll discover one day, maybe we'll talk about this one day where we've discovered what happiness is and we'll also, we can also understand what suffering is. And the interesting thing that, you know, this is what the Buddha learned and discovered is that no amount of achievement will make you immune to suffering in the same way that no amount of achievement will guarantee you happiness or contentment. Yeah, that makes. Cool. Thank you so much for calling in. I think this is a fantastic call to end.

with, and I'm really glad we did one more. Yeah, I'm glad to. Take care. This is as a joke, it feels really weird to hear you actually live. I still feel like I'm just watching a stream and talking to myself. Okay. It's really weird. But yeah, you take care.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Take care. For this and for everything in general. Of course. Thank you so much for calling in, Asper. Take care. Bye.

Bye.