HealthyGamerGG - Impostor Syndrome ft. Maya

Episode Date: April 23, 2020

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In fact, what you tell me is there's a different thought machine that's kind of like saying, like, oh, this is awesome. Like, you did a great job. Even though, like, it's kind of a small impact, it feels fulfilling and right to you. And there are other times where on some objective criteria, in theory, you're having a bigger impact, but it feels like you're kind of a fraud. Yeah. Right? So for you to feel like you're a fraud must mean that you believe something about yourself. Say goodbye to chat

I did It's my first I've never closed chat for a stream before That's weird Yeah What's weird about it It feels like I'm not live That's fine

Well perfect Yeah okay good Let's just Let's just trick your brain into thinking That thousands of people on the internet Are not watching this For sure Good start

So it's okay if I call you Maya Yeah, for sure. I was just saying that this is actually really fun for me because I actually know what to call someone. Yeah, I just changed my name on Twitch to Maya. Prior to that, it was Maya Higa, which is my name. Okay. Higa, what is he? It's Japanese.

My dad's Okinawan. Okay, cool. It's an Okinawan last name. And so what are we talking about today, Maya? It was difficult for me to come up with that I guess general anxiety My chat said that I should talk about overthinking Because I do that a lot

And then I have trouble I guess like internalizing my success Because a lot of I share a lot of my viewership with my boyfriend Who you talk to, Ms. Keth or Matt. Ah.

Yeah. How's Ms. Kiff doing? He's good. He's good. Well, actually, he's playing a game right now that makes him not so good, but. Man, I think Ms. Kiff is fantastic, man. I like him so much.

I think so, too. But yeah, so a lot of my growth on Twitch happened after I met and started dating him. So sometimes I have trouble, like, owning my success and not thinking. that it's just solely attributed to his. So, yeah. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah.

It's kind of a long story. I haven't been on Twitch all that long. It's been just over a year. Okay. But, um. So can you tell us the story? Yeah, for sure. I'll try to make it digestible.

Um, I started, when I was in like February or something like that? Um, and I was, maxing out at like a couple hundred viewers and then one day I brought my hawk out on stream and a clip of that got put on LSF so clips of me started getting put on LSF while stream fails blowing up whatever and then Matt found me off of those clips and called me on stream we started talking that way and then several

several months later Mizkith sorry and then several several months later we started dating but my channel blew up after talking to Matt and after LSF. Okay. And so you feel like your success on Twitch is attributed to Miskip or Matt? Partially, yeah, for sure. Like, big partially. How do you feel about that? I don't know.

I mean, sometimes it doesn't bother me. or it doesn't matter because I still like what I'm doing with the platform and I'm proud of it. But it also makes my achievements when I think about it feel less satisfying, I guess. Like less fulfilling, I guess. So you're kind of thinking like if you had done it on your own, it would mean more. Right. And help me understand what you mean by achievements. I do a conservation podcast on my channel every week and I've done a lot of charity.

Yeah, happy Earth Day. I'm sorry I didn't say that to you. Yeah, it's Earth Day. But I do a conservation podcast every week and we raise money. I talk to a conservationist, psychologist, biologists, whatever, about conservation research and about usually a particular species and we raise money for an organization of their choosing through the podcast alone, we're at, I think it's 26 episodes. We've raised nearly 30K or around there, and then through my streaming career, it's been well over 50K. I do a lot of charity on my streaming.

Wow. That's very cool. Yeah. And how do you feel about doing that? It's the most important thing that I've done in my life is the podcast, and being like a powerful force in conservation education and being able to teach more people. Because before I started streaming, I had been working in a zoo for several years doing conservation education. So like bringing animal ambassadors out and teaching kids and bringing them to birthday parties and stuff like that.

And that's been my thing in my dream forever. So Twitch kind of just gave me a platform to do that on a larger scale. Yeah. My kids love that stuff. Yeah. Those kids do. like a fair and there's like a dude there with animals. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that was me for summers. Yeah. And the interesting thing is that my older one, they like different animals. So my older one is terrified of all of the animals that my younger one really likes. Well, they can learn from each other. That's kind of cool. Yeah, you would think so, but it doesn't, the younger one is oblivious that, you know, the older one is scared of large animals and snakes and crocodiles and alligators.

Got it. the younger one wants to befriend all of them. And we have to explain to her. Sometimes I'll tell her stories about, you know, friendly alligators. And then we actually have an alligator in our backyard. Oh. Yeah. Shoot.

So we have to explain to her that you can't actually, like, go up to the water and pet the alligator. It's a fine line with having people fall in love with animals and not having them think that all animals are necessarily their friends. Have you seen Tiger King? I have. Any thoughts about that? Can I ask you about that? Should we talk about your feelings? I absolutely despise the entire series.

The only reason that I watched it is because I felt the responsibility or the obligation to be able to comment on it. Sure. But it's the good thing about this series is that it exposes a lot of the really, really terrible stuff that happens in the exotic animal industry, in the for-profit exotic animal industry, and the exploitation that comes with, cub petting and

animal interactions especially with big cats. So I think that the best thing that came out of that series is everyone who watched it, I think, would now be uncomfortable going to a facility and doing like cub petting, you know? And that's huge because that's been going on forever and there are a lot of animals that aren't going to suffer anymore because of the series. But it was really frustrating to watch for sure.

What was frustrating to watch about it? The animal husbandry in the series, I mean, the dynamics between the people from, you know, a normal person perspective were pretty wild. Just the lack of care for the animals and the amount of care for the profit and for the power. It's frustrating. Yeah. You see that a lot in exotics when you have something that people aren't supposed to have, you know, or that most people don't have. Interesting. Okay. So, you know, I've just been listening for your overthinking over the course of this conversation.

I haven't seen it. Yeah. It's a, well, I guess that's good. Sorry for wobbling everything. No, you're fine. Overthinking for me at this point in my life is pretty much only about streaming stuff, I think. So help me understand what you mean. by overthinking or what you're, because we're taking advice from chat nowadays, what your, what your chat feels about your overthinking.

I'm trying to think of an example. A while ago, I set a goal incentive for a sponsored stream. Well, this has happened a couple times. Yeah, no. So I sent a goal incentive to add an emote. And I don't know if you're familiar with, like, how. ha ha emotes, but like, it's a, so an email, like, of my face that is, like, cringing, and you're supposed to use it when something, or someone says something that's not funny.

Okay. But that kind of emote lends to toxicity in chat, because it's like you're telling someone that they're not funny. And I said that I would add that emote as a goal incentive for a certain amount of downloads. I think this is right. I think that's why I did that on a sponsored stream. And what is a download? It was for like...

I know what a download is, but... Chat, I may be getting this confused. I'm pretty sure it was an incentive for something. I think it was for Raid, Shadow Legends, and like the sponsor is they want you to get a certain amount of downloads for this free game. Got it. And so you keep track of how many of your viewers have downloaded it. And I think that that's why I may be getting confused.

But it was an incentive for sure. And I got... I freaked out after doing it because... I was like, wait, are people, like, do people think that I'm just like a sellout or that I'm, um, that I don't care about like enabling toxicity? Um, or are people starting to think that like, I'm not a good person, uh, because of that emo and I freaked out and then I deleted the emote and then chat freaked out and they got really mad because they're like, you scam this. So then I added it back. Sure. Um, yeah. That was an example, I guess.

That's an example of overthinking? I think, yeah. I think I was overthinking when I, like, snowballed, I guess, from... So that feels to me... Sorry, when I snowballed from, like, I added this emote to shoot, like, people think that I'm a bad person.

Okay. So emote enabling toxicity. Uh-huh. I'm a bad person. Oh, no. So the first thing is let's kind of understand what's happening in your mind there. Oh, it looks like you. I can read.

Okay. Sorry. So let's try to understand what's happening in your mind there first. So you say overthinking. What I'm going to toss back at you is that there may be a particular... So I want you to envision your mind as having different centers of what I, let's call them, thought producers. So you'll have like some part of your mind. Let's talk about the internalizing growth for a second, right? So you have one part of your mind that produces thoughts like yeah, you know,

like at the end of the day, sure, MISGIF gave you a bump, but people wouldn't watch your stream if they didn't like your content. Right. So like sure, you got exposure through Miscif, but I don't think that, I mean, just based on my understanding of Twitch, you know, our channel got huge bumps from a lot of different places. And at the top of the list is probably our stream. with recful. And so I'm grateful for that, and I think that that's like a big part of our growth. And at the same time, I still, there's a part of me that says that, like, sure, we got like a gigantic bump from that.

I mean, we went from probably like 150 to like 10,000 in terms of like before and, you know, during the recful stream and things like that. And so certainly there's, there are bumps that happen. but one of the things that I've come to understand about Twitch is that generally speaking, you know, sure, you can get a bump because of a particular interaction, but people usually watch the streams that they enjoy. Right. Like, I don't think anyone watches stream.

I mean, maybe people do, but I generally speaking, like, I know when I watch a Twitch stream, I watch a Twitch stream because I enjoy watching a Twitch stream. I don't do it, you know, like, and I find certain streamers in certain ways. But once I find a streamer, if I like a streamer, I watch their stream. So let's say that there's a part of you that. sort of understands that, and that produces thoughts, right? Like that says that, okay, Maya, you've actually accomplished a lot and you're, you know, a good person and you're doing a lot for the world and you're expanding your conservation work and so be it. Then there's another

part of your mind that produces other kinds of thoughts, right? And this is the kind of, with a part of your mind that says, oh, like, maybe you're an imposter, like you wouldn't be what you are without him and this and that. Like, do you see how like those two thoughts, it's not like each of these thoughts is independent. You have like two like thought producing machines. They're like bubble machines. You have, you guys have I have kids, so bubble machines are very common. And

so, you know, they're just kind of like these things in some days, like one thought machine is like more active than another thought machine. Does that make sense? Yep. Like you wake up on one day and you're like, oh, I'm a fucking imposter today. And on another day it's like, oh, like I, you know, I'm

trying to make the world a better place and that's awesome. So the first thing is when you talk about overthinking, I don't know that it's it's so much that you're thinking too much. It's, I get the sense that on some days you think from the wrong place. I agree with that. Right? So let's try to understand how that is because then maybe we can get a control over overthinking.

We don't, I don't think that thinking too much is a problem. Like if you're thinking about, you know, conservation work or how to make the most of your presence on Twitch or things like that, we definitely want you to think as many thoughts as you can on that. Right. So the first thing is I have an issue with the word overthinking because I think it's a little bit of a misdiagnosis of, you know, not acknowledging, it's not like your thinking is too high or too low. It's like there are different kinds of thinking. And one source of your thinking is kind of problematic.

So let's start by understanding where that thought machine comes from and what it looks like. So when you started, when you had the idea for the emote, can you walk me through like how you decided to do that emote is kind of the prize for a particular goal? It had been created and I rejected it immediately when it was created because I didn't want it. Why didn't you want it? Well, one, because it's a picture of my face that I don't particularly like. Okay, so when you say a picture of your face that you don't particularly like, help me understand that. It's just making like a weird expression.

And it's kind of weird to have face emotes in chat. What, when you see a picture of your face with a weird expression, how does that make you feel? Embarrass, I guess. Okay. What are you embarrassed by? That people are going to see it and think that I look weird. Okay. So people think that I look weird. What do you mean by weird?

I'm not sure Okay Have you felt like you look weird in the past? Not particularly Okay Do you remember being concerned about your appearance When you were growing up? Oh for sure, yeah

Can you tell me about that? I don't think more so than An average young girl Absolutely But yeah In like middle school I was super awkward Short but weirdly lanky had a unibrow, stringy hair, all that.

I started worrying more about my appearance at the beginning of high school when I started learning how to use makeup, I guess is where it started. And other girls started, like, to me, getting prettier. And I felt like I was behind the curve, so, yeah. Do you remember what kind of thoughts you had? I thought that makeup made them look really different in a good way and I thought that makeup either didn't make me look different enough or I wasn't good enough at doing it or it made me look different in a bad way

so I was like why can't I do makeup to make me look better like they can why did you need to look better to catch up I think behind the curve is fucking devastating yeah yeah So just to kind of tie things together, behind the curve is a thought machine. Okay. What do you think about that? Sounds toxic.

Yeah. Does that make sense at all? Like, because it's kind of a vague statement I'm making. I'm like, you know, does. No, it does. Totally. Help me understand what you, help me understand what you understand when I say behind the curve is a thought machine. that if that thinking can lend itself to a lot like a variety of situations

absolutely for me like academically socially physically sure right so let's just think about this for a second so do you feel like you're behind the curve on Twitch a little bit Not in terms of my viewership or my rate of growth, but there's a lot that I don't understand about Twitch just because I haven't been around as long as other people. A lot of Twitch history that I don't know. A lot of intricacies of streaming that I don't understand just because I haven't had enough experience.

Yeah, so that doesn't sound to me like that's a behind-the-curve thought. That sounds to me like someone who recognizes that they've been doing this for about, a year and they have a lot to learn. That doesn't mean you're behind the curve. That just means you're one year into the curve. Does that make sense? Right. Yep. Yeah. Do you see the difference there?

Yeah. Like, do you feel bad when you say, I have a lot to learn about Twitch? No. Okay. So now let's talk about internalizing growth for a second. Do you feel like Miskiff is sort of the makeup that makes you look better than you truly are? Is that sometimes how you feel about it? I'm having a hard time

like putting those things together Okay so maybe they're not connected Let me put it another way I'm noticing something that you have a sense of your worth That sometimes is low And that you have an idea that you can do certain things To artificially elevate your sense of worth So let's say makeup is one example

Right now we're not saying that you're different for most people Most people are like this, okay? That's how we can talk about this because these are patterns that exist with like basically everyone I've ever talked to. And so I'm kind of thinking, if we take this idea that, like, Maya's not good enough, and then unless she can, like, do something external

that makes her good enough or makes her appear to be good enough, I think makeup falls into that. And I'm wondering whether Ms. Gifts bump on your stream also sort of qualifies under that framework. of oh, you couldn't make it yourself, but he's basically the thing that elevates you beyond where you normally belong.

And so the success is not yours. Yeah, I don't know if it's so closely tied to Ms. Kiff as it is like the bump in viewership and like general like numbers that I have on Twitch now. Like the numbers make me look like I'm a better streamer than I am. Ah, make me look like a better streamer. beautiful that's exactly what i'm talking about right where do you get the idea of what your true like that implies that there's like a false streamer quality and a true streamer quality right like

oh my numbers are better than what i deserve so where do you get the idea of like what your gold standard is how do you determine what you deserve how do you determine what's right because it's inflated yeah so where do you get the idea of like what's true north? Maybe it's because I haven't been on Twitch that long, or because my life purpose or my life goal for years has been to be a forest and conservation. And before when I was working at the zoo, I was completely and fully satisfied doing a presentation for like 30 people,

a class of 30 people or like a crowd of max 100 people. you know, I was like, that's huge. And I would go home and feel really good about it and think, like, I just inspired this many people today. And that's a big deal for me. I think it's unfathomable to imagine a thousand, two thousand, three thousand people watching me and me having the same effect on that many people. So I maybe feel like there's something not wrong. But like, there's no way that I can influence this many people just because I'm like good at what I'm doing or like, because I'm a good stream.

Like there must be something that they're missing or that like I'm like they're like being tricked into thinking I'm some expert that I'm not or that I like deserve this like platform and I don't. I don't know. Does that make sense? Yeah, sort of. Okay. So I'd like to ask you a few questions about that if that's okay. Sure. So the first thing is I'm hearing a common theme of like you deserve something and you get more than you deserve.

Yeah. Right. So let me, so I think the main question is like where do you get the idea of what you deserve? Right. So I think that's a thought machine. This idea that like I don't deserve this or I'm not good enough or I wouldn't be somewhere. because like you don't have intrinsic value in who you are. And that's not like a, it's not an all-the-time thing.

And I think it's beautiful that you gave the example of when you give a conservation lecture for 30 people. Because at that time, the thought machine of I don't deserve this or I'm not a good person or I'm not good enough is not producing thoughts. In fact, what you tell me is there's a different thought machine that's kind of like saying like, oh, this is awesome. Like you did a great job. even though like it's kind of a small impact, it feels fulfilling and right to you. And there are other times where on some objective criteria, in theory, you're having a bigger impact, but it feels like you're kind of a fraud. Yeah.

Right. So for you to feel like you're a fraud must mean that you believe something about yourself. So like if I pretend to be a doctor, if I think I'm not a real doctor, if I feel like I'm a fraud doctor, even if I'm performing the duties of a doctor I have to have a belief that I'm not a real doctor that comes from somewhere right? So what I'm really curious about and I think if we really want to try to help you Maya

it's to help you understand like where you get the idea that you're a fraud we have to find out where that thought machine came from do you have any idea? I think that that's actually something that I've had for a long time Or like the idea of like I'm, the fraud thing, even before, before streaming.

Yep. I grew up in a super, super competitive school district. Now we're getting there. Yeah. You mentioned academics early, earlier and behind the curve. Yeah. We had like, I mean, we easily have one of the highest suicide rates in the country. Like, not just at my high school,

but a bunch of high schools in the area. And I've always said, I still say now, even though I shouldn't, that, and I've said it on stream before, too, that I come across as more intelligent than I am because I've been taught in school to, like, be articulate. Or, like, I have been taught to, like, come across as being intelligent, but I'm not. So, Maya, I want you to, I'm going to repeat back your statement, okay? I come across as more intelligent than I am.

Help me understand what you see in that statement. What do you mean what I see? Like help, like, so in it, I guess it's kind of a read my mind question. So in that statement, I see once again the presumption that you are one thing and that you're a fraud. Do you see that? Like in that statement, we see the same thing. I'm not, I'm smarter than I appear to be. I'm not as good looking as I appear with makeup.

I'm not as successful of a streamer as I would be unless I got the bumps from LSF or this or that. Like it's sort of this idea of intrinsic value and the way that the world perceives you. And the world perceives you like you're over here, but you feel like you're over here. Yeah. And absolutely that started way before you started streaming on Twitch. Twitch is just one manifestation that activates that thought machine. Do you see like this is like a core part of you that frequently, whether it's academics, whether it's social, stuff, you feel behind the curve, you feel like you're not, that other people think you're

something that you're not. Yes. And can I ask you some questions? I mean, I know, I mean, I learned this less than the hard way where sometimes I would ask people personal questions about where they grew up or where they are. And, you know, you don't do that on Twitch. And that's just because, you know, I usually see people in the privacy of my office where no one is watching so they can give me details about, you know, what street they grew up on.

But do you mind if I ask a couple of questions? Because you mentioned that we have the highest suicide rate. I thought that was a weird thing, and I'm really curious about that. Can I ask you some questions? Yeah, for sure. I mean, my first move on Twitch was leaking my full name, so I'm not that worried. But I'll let you know if I don't want to answer something. So can you tell me where you grew up?

Yeah, Silicon Valley. Okay. California. And, um, okay. Uh, I just laughed. So, and tell me a little bit about what growing up was like for you. That explains so much. Okay. Oh, does it? Yeah. I work with a fair number of people who are in Silicon Valley and also have children

of parents who are in Silicon Valley. So the rat race. Yeah, growing up, I grew up on a small farm So I've always been around animals. I was the only one out of four I have three other siblings that was really into animals My sister and I are super close in age. We're 18 months apart. She's far more... And how old are you, Maya? I'm 21.

She's far more academically inclined than I am. She went to an IV. She played soccer all through high school. I also played soccer in high school. Who's older? She is. She's older by 18 months. and I played a bunch of sports.

I rode horses. I've been riding horses all my life. And I'm a senior at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, but not in school right now because of the virus. Okay. What are you studying? Agriculture. Agricultural communications is my major. That sounds cool.

Can you tell me a little bit about that? the idea of the major is to crank out people that can work in the ag industry that are capable of communicating messages to consumers better so marketers journalists environmental lawyers stuff like that interesting so you mentioned that she went to an ivy how do you feel about that they're a mixed feeling for sure. I mean, absolutely. She got recruited for D1 soccer as well. My sister's always been like a, like a better than you. In a lot of ways, sure. Yeah. Um, but I was super proud that she went to an Ivy. She didn't end up being all that happy there. But, um, it was cool to, to know that she got, like, when she got in, it was like a really big deal. Um, and that she was going for engineering. She's always wanted to do engineering. So, yeah, it was exciting. It also was a little bit nerve-wracking because her going to an IV kind of set the precedent that I would also.

I felt that way. My dad wanted me to go to Cornell. Where are your other two siblings in terms of your age? She's 23, 22, 23, year 21. Where are they? One of my brothers, they're half-brothers, so they're much older. They're 33 and 29. And so you said it set the bar for you?

And how did you feel when that bar was set? Do you remember? Well, I think I knew that it wasn't... My whole life, it was kind of like... Because she's... I mean, she's 18 months older. So everything that she did, like, I was next for, you know? Like, going to high school and then making this soccer team.

She was, like, always setting a bar. This is so depressing. She was always setting a bar that I knew, like, I... couldn't hit. Sure. So. Would you say that that's when you started to feel behind the curve? Probably.

Probably. I think that fits. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So how did it feel when she got into an Ivy? Because you said mixed feelings. Like obviously you're proud.

You love your sister. You respect her a lot. You want her to be happy. But. And? Um, kind of like a, oh shit. feeling. What is that?

What's in that? I'm going to ask you to dig a little bit, and if we can't get anywhere, I'll offer you some hypotheses about what, oh, shit, means. Yeah, that I've never really been interested in attending an Ivy. I wanted to go somewhere

where I knew there was like a lot of outdoorsy stuff and where people were super relaxed. And I mean, my university's been perfect for that. But I didn't want to do like a hardcore academics thing. Because I just like haven't, I've never been into it. So it was kind of like a, oh, shit. Is this going to make me feel worse about not doing something as challenging as she's choosing to do? I think.

And did it make you feel worse? than if she didn't attend an IV? No, no, no. I mean, so you kind of said, is this going to make me feel? Okay, so let me take a step back for a second. So this is what I'm envisioning. You have an idea of who you are.

You actually do have an idea of who you are, right? So we see real Maya, which is Maya who knows she wants to, like, not be an engineer and go to a school where she can be outdoors and be involved in the ag industry or animals or things like that. conservationist Maya, Maya who works summers and educates kids about animals and teaches them about conservation. Maya who raises money for charity on Twitch of all places. This is real Maya. That Maya is one thought machine, right? It makes you happy with what you accomplish,

even if what you accomplish is quote unquote small. And then there's also behind the curve Maya. And what I'm hearing in oh shit is like a conflict between real Maya and behind the curve Maya. So then you start to think like, oh, like maybe I'm making a mistake. Like maybe I should do what she does. Is this good enough? Am I capable? You said that you're not interested in doing what she does. But I would hypothesize that you felt on some level that you're not capable.

And if you chose to. That's absolutely true. Yeah. Right. I don't think that I am. And so how do you feel about not being capable? How does that make you feel? I mean, I recognize that I'm capable of a lot of things that my sister's not

in being a communicator in public speaking and, you know, like other. Being internet famous. Sure. But like the feeling in high school, like all. all my friends, I didn't have a single friend that didn't attend college and the vast majority of them went to better or like more difficult to get in colleges than I did. Everyone had a higher SAT, ACT score than I did. And it always felt like I was like, I mean, we've already talked about this, that I was just like trying to like fake that I was as smart as they were. So in thinking

that I'm not capable of going to an Ivy or being an engineer or whatever, it's kind of like, it feels like me like exposing myself like saying like yeah like you're you're at least being honest with yourself that you're not yeah I mean so so when you say exposing so being honest with yourself sounds like a good thing exposing yourself sounds like a not good thing yeah right and and so what what I'm hearing is that like the gig is up like you've been revealed to be a fraud because you ended up at some school that's not an ivy and now the like you know the cat's out of the bag Maya is actually kind of dumb Is that how you feel?

Yeah. I think that fits. Okay. What does it like to hear me say that? Does it hurt? I mean, my first reaction was not really, but maybe a little bit. I don't know.

Okay. So let's think about that. Like that's weird, right? So I think if we think about, you know, your emote, this would have been a prime time. to spam the emo in this channel because I just said something to you that seems like it should be really hurtful, right? Right. Like, I mean, literally the sentence that I, the phrase that I used are close to it was like, the cat's out of the bag. Oh, my is dumb. And isn't that what you're

afraid of people saying? I feel like people already know, but that doesn't make sense. That doesn't add up. You're damn right. It doesn't. Let's speak about that. Right? So, What's weird? Because even though you feel like people already know, you don't want them to say, right? You want to try to hide what you're afraid they already know. Yeah. So what happens?

Why doesn't it hurt when I bring it out into the open? I can't logically think of a reason for that because it makes no sense. Yep. Okay. Sorry. Great answer. No, that's an excellent answer, Maya. because it's fucking confusing.

Let me think about how to explain this. So when people find out that you're a fraud, what do you envision? How do they react? I don't know how to articulate it. Yeah, because I don't think it's actually like a vision, right? So like what are the feelings? Like what, like, help me understand that.

Like, what are you afraid of them? How do they make you feel or how do you feel? once they know. Let's start there. That I've, that I have some sort of like malicious intent to like trick people or that I've been lying or that I'm like not genuine. Right. Yeah. So I think what you're afraid of in terms of a negative reaction is that, right? Like it's not just them finding out.

it's the judgment that they place upon you after they find out. Yes. It's the way that they perceive you. So now let me ask you a question. Is it the fraud that hurts or the judgment that hurts? The judgment. Absolutely. Right?

So just think about that for a second, right? Because like if someone, you know, if, and so I think the reason that, I mean, maybe this does hurt you and you're not telling me or tricking. me. But, you know, I think the reason that you can hear those words for me is because I, from me, is because I actually don't judge you negatively at all. So I'm saying the words without the judgment. We're talking about you being a fraud. I see that you think you're a fraud. And I don't believe you're a fraud at all. So I think because you're an empathic person, when you look at me, I don't, I don't judge you for that. In fact, I think that, yeah, this is going to sound weird. How can I say this? It's very clear to me that.

you're not a fraud. The only thing that is like wrong about you is that you think you're a fraud. Like you know who you are and I think you're amazing. And the only issue is that like sometimes you think you should be something that you're not. And not all the time, but there are two thought machines. One thought machine is like the genuine Maya who does like real stuff. And I think that person is awesome. I think the only problem that I have is that sometimes there's a part of your mind that tells you you should be someone else. And that's the part of you that makes you feel dumb. I don't think you're dumb. First of all, I don't know how many, like, actual score reports you saw for SAT scores or ACT scores,

but there's a decent chance that not everyone did as well as they said they did. Right. There's also a decent chance that I doubt that you actually had the lowest SAT score, because statistically, that's very, very unlikely. I think that's probably a cognitive bias on your part in the same way that you had a cognitive bias that, oh, like, makeup makes other people look better, but it makes me look how. Right. Yeah.

Right? So something about this, how are you feeling right now, by the way? Fine. Okay. Something about this, I think, comes back to this core idea of like, you're someone who's behind the curve. You're not as good as everyone else. And if it's a, does that make sense about, actually, before I go there, does that

make sense why those words may not hurt you? Because I say those words, but I don't have any judgment. In fact, I have a positive judgment with it, which is probably why it's confusing for you. And you're picking up my positive judgment and you're hearing my negative words, and that doesn't fit. Right. Okay. So let me ask you this. Like, can you tell me a little bit more about like growing up? Sure. What, what do you want to know?

What was it like growing up in your house? Pretty good. I've always, me and my sister, I've always been super close. We did everything together when we were a little. My brothers, because they're older, I mean, I grew up with them, but they left for college when I was like on the younger side. so yeah sure um it's a little different um my parents both Silicon Valley work full time so we were we were pretty much raised by um babysitters mostly one babysitter and then um she she just like didn't pick us up one day so then uh random teenage babysitters throughout uh elementary school some of middle school and what's it like being raised by babysitters I don't I don't feel like I've really had a problem with that um I didn't realize until like high school that it was weird that they like we only called

one of a mom but I didn't realize until high school that that was like strange or like abnormal um okay I'm going to repeat back what I heard we only called one of the mom yeah See, yes. Yeah, I hear it. But I didn't realize growing up that that was abnormal. Sure. What kind of work did your parents do? Tech.

Okay. And do you remember what your... So it sounds like you were raised by babysitters. Do you understand what happened when one of them didn't pick you up? Like you said one of them? Yeah, so she was... she was there. I mean, she was there the day my sister was born.

So she was absolutely there the day I was born. And then she was with us until I was in third grade or something. Okay. Second or third grade, every day. And then she just didn't pick us up from school one day. And I guess she had some sort of nervous breakdown. But I mean, I've, well, I did talk to her about it once. Because at some point in high school, she reached out to my sister and, like, wanted to

meet up with us, which was weird. And then she told us that she had a nervous breakdown. But I'm not really sure what the reason was. What did she say? She lost her husband at some point in there, so that was probably the reason. Okay. Okay. I'm just going to think for a second. Is that okay? Yeah, of course. Has this gone so far, by the way? Good. That's fine. Do you feel like you're learning anything? Mm-hmm.

What are you learning? I don't usually think about the, I don't usually go that far back when I think about anxiety or insecurity or whatever. Yeah. It's interesting. So do you remember? I've been in therapy for, I've been seeing a therapist for just over two years. And I've, I did EMDR for like almost a whole year and I did neurofeedback for a few months. So we've talked about it in there.

Yeah, it's been a lot. Why are you doing EMDR? I had like deep rooted insecurities in my former relationship that I wanted to figure out. So we did EMDR and focused a lot actually on my babysitter and about like abandonment issues and stuff like that. Sure. And then neurofeedback was for a separate trauma that I was hoping to. I was hoping for memory recovery because I've lost most of it. But that's, yeah.

That's what? I haven't talked about it on stream, so I don't want to. You can steer clear of it. Yeah. Okay. So I guess some things are starting to fit together a little bit more for me. So help me understand a little bit about what your relationship what your parents was like.

My parents are great. My dad doesn't talk a lot, and he's not very affectionate, but he's first generation. Or he moved here when he was 17, and he's always just been really, really quiet. And then my mom is super loving, and she loves animals, and yeah,

so my mom and I, well, we got along with, and we butt heads in high school a lot, but that's because I was a teenage girl. But it's a lot like her at court. Yeah. And what, when you say that your dad wasn't very affectionate, do you remember feeling like you wanted him to be more affectionate? No.

Not. He was when me and my sister were little, and then when we got older, wasn't. But I never thought of it as being anything, but normal. It sounds like you feel pretty stronger, like your parents love you. Yeah. Sounds like they're great. Yeah, yeah.

Can you, and once again, anything that you don't want to talk about, just let me know what we're steering clear up. Can you tell me what you mean by abandonment issues? Yeah, I was, so the reason that I started going to therapy was because I was really insecure in my last relationship. Like I always thought that he was going to leave or whatever. So I went in to figure out why that was happening. And we. had a hard time figuring it out in talk therapy than my psychologist recommended EMDR because she thought that it was something deeper. I went to EMDR, we did a bunch of sessions, and

I don't remember what the session was, but we had some breakthrough session where I, like, started talking about that babysitter, and how, like, like, any, when a parent figure or something leaves, how like the kid feels like it's their fault you know or the kid feels like they're not good enough or whatever what's your understanding of that how does that work do you know like a kid not understanding and thinking that it's their fault that that person left um which i know logically isn't the case but what do you mean logically isn't the case what do you mean about that like i i don't i don't think that she left because she didn't like me oh right or because or because it was my fault.

But yeah, my, my kid brain, you know, like my, my therapist would say, is still thinks that that's a thing. So that tendency of thinking that someone's going to leave because of me or someone's just going to ditch me after I think that my relationship with them is super secure was leaking into my current relationship at the time. And does that, does that make sense to you? did you find that to be the case? Like, was that hypothesis kind of very helpful and applicable?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And after that session, it got a little bit better. But it remained pretty, pretty debilitating throughout that relationship. And once again, if you don't feel comfortable answering this, just let me know. But I was just curious, is that still pretty active for you in your relationship with Miscuit? It's not. which is really bizarre.

And I talked to my therapist about that a decent amount now. I took, like, I had a little over, I had about a year of being single and doing, at that point, I had stopped the EMDRA and the neurofeedback. But it used to be, like, debilitating, like, fear, and I would be sad and whatever about him talking to other girls and that kind of thing. And I'm not sure if that, like, there's, I mean, there's jealousy that comes up, you know, but I don't think that it's abnormal. Sure. For between me and Matt. And I'm not sure if that's because of the work that I've done or because something's changed for me

or if it's because of differences in Matt compared to my ex-boyfriend. But it's pretty weird. Would you like me to try to explain what my understanding of that is? Sure. Yeah. So let's start with. your kid brain. Okay. So early on when children are young, they lack something called theory of mind.

And theory of mind is the capacity to like put yourself in other people's minds and like understand that they have thoughts and feelings and intentions. Okay. So the simplest thing, the simplest reason why abandonment of a parent parental figure leads to a sense of your like unlovable or there's something wrong with you is because, Because a child literally does not understand that there are other agents in the world who can do things. Right. They're the only thing that exists because they don't understand that there are other like thinking, breathing beings out there.

And so anything that happens to them is their fault because they're the only, they're all powerful in the universe in their mind because they just don't understand that other people exist. And this changes drastically, especially in your teenage years. So that you start to develop theory of mind, you know, around like maybe, I mean, you develop it relatively early, but. It becomes really, really big when you go through puberty. And in puberty, the reason that, like, high school is so hard and middle school is so hard is because this is literally when your brain develops the capacity to understand that other people have, like, lasting opinions of you. And that, like, if I do something, this person is going to think this about me, that capacity,

like, if you talk to a seven-year-old, they don't understand that. Right. Right? They don't understand that, like, if you go to someone's house and you break their thing, that that person is not going to like you. Like, all they understand is that they're not supposed to do it and they don't understand why. They're like, it's dumb.

Like, I should be able to do the fuck I want. Right. And when you become a teenager, you start to realize, oh, like, theory of mind is actually thing and people think things about me. And that's really terrifying because now you have to, like, balance all of these hundreds of people that you know and what they think about you.

So as for why your current relationship, and I'm not surprised at all that it's better. And that's because I think you figured out the thought machine. So you discovered through EMDR, you figured out, oh, there is a thought machine that sources my thoughts of insecurity. And once you discover the source of the thought machine, you can start the process of turning it off. And so I would like literally, if I were to record your thoughts from your last relationship and this relationship, I think one of them just had way more thoughts coming from that thought machine. And they just don't come from this thought machine because you've just kind of turned it off.

And I know it sounds kind of simple, but like honestly, it kind of is. And so the interesting thing here is that I think that you have another thought machine, which is behind the curve. And somewhere along the way, and I'm not sure if it's your parents, like everyone wants to say it's your parents, like all of us therapists and psychiatrists and stuff. Like we're like, oh, it's your parents. I mean, you know, maybe there was something around like your dad not being quite affectionate enough or maybe your parents compared you. Did your parents compare you a lot with your sister? Yeah, but not. like explicitly like they like they wouldn't they wouldn't say it or maybe they didn't then maybe

I just think that they did but no I mean so interesting right like how you're analyzing what you said so let's not judge what you said so how did you feel growing up my dad more so than my mom but yeah I think that they that they compared us a lot and how did you notice that I guess that them just like expecting me to do well. Like my sister in elementary school there were like normal classes in advanced math classes. I think that because my sister was always in the advanced ones, they expected me to be in those classes as well. My sister making varsity soccer freshman year just like expected me to do the same. Yeah, I guess that like sister set precedent expecting me to reach that precedent. And what was it like to not reach that precedent? I mean, the interesting thing is

I'm almost interpreting what you said is that you weren't in advanced math classes and you didn't end up in varsity soccer. Is that true? Does it both true? Yeah. Yeah. How does it feel to hear me say that explicitly? Well, it's, I mean, it's factual. So yeah, it doesn't bother me too much. but I don't know, maybe at first, maybe it bothered me. Actually, yes, okay, it did bother me at first. The first, like, big example that I have is this advanced math stuff. And I would, like, on my own study, I actually recently, I did this YouTube video where I went through, like, old schoolwork and old pictures and stuff, and I found a letter that I wrote

to a teacher. It's not in the video. I found a letter that I wrote to a teacher about, like, really wanting to be an advanced math, which is, like, not a thing that. I mean, it's not like you submit a letter to be in advancement. I, like, wrote a letter to my teacher for the following year saying, like, can I please be in this class? Which, and this was in, like, third or fourth grade or something.

True. Yeah, and I was never in it. So, at first, I think it was, it made me feel bad. And then later on in high school, like, when I didn't get into varsity soccer at that point, it was just, like, a norm. so I think it probably became easier to deal with. Oh, okay, hold on a second. So, no, my friend, I think by the time you hit high school, it became chronic.

Right? So now what we're dealing with is something that's chronic. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like your sense of being behind the curve, like now, in a sense, when you say it's become easier to deal with, But not really. You've become better at dealing with something that at that point became fact.

Yeah. So that's bad. Okay. Yeah. Right. So, like, do you understand what I mean by that? I don't really understand why it's a bad thing. Yeah, I understand that.

You don't understand that. So, like, what I'm saying is that, like, you think that this is just the way that you are. Yes. Right. So like I think that that's bad because I don't think you're that way. Okay. So I think you, so I think, so let's just, let's think through this, okay? And is it okay that we're being a little bit more analytical instead of emotional?

Yeah, totally. Okay. Were you hoping to come in here and have like a cathartic like, oh, like, oh, like, oh. No. Okay. So, so I'm going to try to, because I think you're, you've done a lot of that kind of stuff. I don't know why I believed that, but now it sort of makes sense. So I want you to just think.

So first, let's think about the third grader who writes a letter to their math teacher to be an advanced math. Yeah. Let's talk about her. Like, what do you think a third grader, how do you think that third grader feels? Well, it definitely wasn't because I liked math and I wanted to challenge myself. I have always. Third graders don't want to challenge themselves in anyway. Sure.

Yeah. I've always hated math. When I was reading the letter, it felt like a really sad, like desperate attempt to find another way to get in because I knew that I wouldn't get in because of my test score. Yep. It is sad and desperate. What does that person feel about themselves? Probably just that they're not small. Yeah, right? They're not good enough. Right. Yeah. And that they have to put on makeup

to fool people. They have to do something that is outside the norm of what normally, like normal people, normal kids get in the math class by being smart. Yeah. And normal people are pretty and they can put on makeup. And I'm sorry if I'm bludgeoning you with this. No, no, I think it's related. But like, you know, normal people can put on makeup and look better, but like, I'm fundamentally different, and so I have to go the extra mile to catch up and be normal. Yeah. Right? You start behind people.

Is that how you feel about yourself? Yep. So can you see how, like, that's what the third grader feels about themselves, right? So like you kind of said, this runs deep. I completely agree. And then let's think about, so let's just pause and think about that for a second. What do you think about that third grader's beliefs? Do you think that those are accurate?

I mean, I wish that I could say no, but my answer is like, yeah. Because I know that according to the, I mean, if we're talking about the math class, like, I know that even if I, or I don't know, I mean, I could have. But even if I were to, like, study harder or, like, really make an effort to, to test to get in that class that I don't think I would have. So, yeah. I mean, I think I was accurate in thinking that I needed to do more to try to get in. I'm glad you're saying that because this is, so this is where we get into a really, really tricky trap,

which is that we want to be positive, right? What we should say is that, yeah, third grader, you can do it. Yeah. Yeah, like, you're not actually dumb. You don't actually have to work as hard. But, like, the truth is that, like, maybe, I mean, I don't think you're dumb. I mean, that was kind of an inflammatory statement. But I don't, I think it's good that you can recognize.

that you're not your sister. The big difference is that third year old, third grader you placed a value judgment on not being your sister. Yeah. You assumed that your sister was like objectively better than what you are. You assumed that being an advanced class,

advanced math is objectively better than not being an advanced math. Yes. What I would like to help you do, Maya, is to let go of that second part, the judgment, because I think you're accurate, right? Like, if you're not good at math, then you're not going to go,

like, if you're not going to study engineering in an Ivy League university, like, you shouldn't study it. Like, fuck that. Right. You know, be the person that you want to be. I think the tricky thing is that somewhere along the way

you started judging yourself for being who you are, and you tried to be someone else. And then what happened is when high school came along, you sort of got so good at that that it stopped being painful you just sort of accepted it you're smiling

yeah no it's just true what's true about it what are you thinking it's just what you're saying is accurate yeah it was resonating as it how so that that uh

that like that I had like tried to be something else and by the time I got to high school it was uh it was I had just gotten used to doing that. Yeah, right? So at that point, like the problem is that at that point it becomes fact and it becomes baked in. It's like baked.

Like you can't take it out anymore. Like once you bake a cake, you know, everything's in there. Right. And now I think the problem is that we see that part of you, right? Like we see the third grader who's not good enough for advanced math who in your teenage years needed makeup to look normal. And now we still see it with your Twitch stream. where like, oh, I couldn't have done this on my own because I'm not good enough like misgift is.

Like, I'm less good. And I need these, I need letters to math teachers in order to be like the others. And it's just become true for you. What do you think about that? I think that it's accurate. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that it makes sense.

I'm not sure what that means for me. or like my identity or what I should do about it. Sure. So let's answer that question because that's the important thing, right? So the first is oddly enough, I don't want you to make that untrue. It's not my place to tell you it isn't true. What I'd like for you to be able to do and what I'd like to help you do is free yourself of the judgment that comes with that.

Okay. Do you play games? No, not really. Okay. Hock. I mean, like, I've played some, but... All of my analogies go out of the window. Yeah, I won't... I won't understand if you make a reference.

So you work with animals, right? I do. You have a hawk? I do. What kind of? What kind of falcon? She's an American kestrel. Okay.

So kestrel is a pretty small berg, right? Smallest falcon in North America, yeah. Yeah. So, like, let's think about that for a second. Okay. So like a castral is, like a castral isn't as big. And like, does that mean that it's worse? Well, it depends what you want to do.

But generally speaking, no. Right. So, like, I want you to think about that, right? So, like, the problem is not that factually you aren't as smart as other people. The problem is that you don't think about. it depends on what you want to do. Do you see that? Like it's that part of the thought process that's missing.

You just look at size. You don't look at like adaptability. And sometimes you do. But does that make sense? Yeah. And I think that that's been ingrained in me and all of my peers since we were in preschool for that matter. But like what you should do is do really well in school, be really good at math, be an engineer.

or compsai and goes to a really good school right yeah um but no one ever no one ever said like you should uh like you should learn how to train animals and you should try to go into the ag industry and you should like if you like doing outdoor stuff like you should get really into it you know, and, like, nurture that passion. Nobody talks about that. Yeah. And what do you think about that? If I liked math a lot and wanted to be an engineer and went to a school for that,

I probably wouldn't feel a lot of the things that I feel. Yeah. So I think actually, Maya, I think you were just truly remarkable. And the reason is because, like, you said, all of those kids were, do you know why your high school has a high suicide rate? Probably because not all of them like math and engineering or want to be that. And what do they do when they don't like math or engineering? Kill themselves? I mean, not all of them, but a lot of them. Yeah. And why do they kill themselves?

Because they don't like math and engineering. Like what do they end up majoring in college? well most of them didn't the ones that I mean killed themselves obviously right but uh um you know like those kids like you know like the ones that didn't kill themselves the ones that are just depressed yeah so like I mean I know a lot of people I know a lot of people that that went to school like my my best friend went to school for business um and she was super super unhappy and she changed her major to art and design. And now she's really happy, but she went through quite a crisis in deciding to change her major.

And I think there are probably a lot of my peers from high school that have pursued business or compsite or engineering and are unhappy, but feel like they're doing what's right. And I think that the kids that couldn't take that are the kids that were depressed in high school or the ones that did take their lives probably just thought that like they knew that they wouldn't be happy doing what we were supposed to do and you get where I'm going with it so no I'm sorry or not um they knew they wouldn't be happy doing what they were supposed to do so they I mean they just they took their lives because they knew that they wouldn't be happy because I want to do other things

So why do I think you're remarkable Because I didn't in high school You didn't what? Commit suicide Not only that I mean And now I'm curious about whether you were suicidal But what I think makes you remarkable

Is that you chose to be what you are Right That you had Like that you chose to like Be the person that you shouldn't be that's what I think makes you amazing. So I think you're in a world of, I forget what kind of,

like what, a red-tailed hawk is pretty big? Yeah. So like, you know, you're in a world where everyone's saying that a red-tailed hawk is what you should be, and you're a kestrel. And I think the people that killed themselves were kestrels that pretended to be red-tailed hawks and then realized

that they couldn't take down the kind of prey that red-tailed hawks go for. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. What are you feeling right now? Um, I feel bad. Um, I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, uh, talk about or reflect on, uh, the kids from my high school, like, ever. Uh, but it's, it's not something that I ever put thought into.

The most thought that I've ever put into it was that, like, it was just, like, too much pressure, you know? And I've, like, a lot of the language in, like, how. high school and stuff when we talk about it was that like they like couldn't take it you know or like they like couldn't handle the pressure um that kind of thing so so i think that you're very similar to those kids in high school what do you think about that yeah i mean i wasn't i was never depressed or suicidal in high school i was um in college like a a year and a half or i'm wondering Maya do you think that those kids in high school felt the way that you felt in the third grade when you wrote that letter? Yeah, I bet a lot of them felt like frauds or like they weren't supposed to,

like they weren't like everyone else or like they were just faking it while everyone else was actually smart. Yeah. I think that's why it hurts, right? Because like when you think about it, you recognize that like you know what they felt like. like you don't know what you know but you feel I mean to be honest I was a little bit surprised

to see your reaction there but I think just that you got emotional kind of when we were sort of oh me too yeah I've never I've never cried about that yeah so yeah I was surprised that also

and I mean so I was gonna ask you why do you think you did but I think the reason that you did is because you know what it's like to be them you know what it's like to feel those feelings. You know what it's like to be eight years old and like start to think that you're not good enough. And between the ages of eight and 15, every year that goes by to think more and more

that, oh, maybe I'm not good enough, maybe I'm not good enough. And maybe I'm not good enough. And then what happens in high school, then it's not a maybe. Yep. Right? Then it's like, I'm not good enough and I'm not going to make it. And then they hold on to hope and they hold on to hope that maybe they're wrong, maybe they're wrong, maybe they're wrong, but their mind tells them, no, you're not wrong, you're not going to get into an ivy, you're not as good at math. You're not, you're not a red tail talk. Right. And they can't, what I think really, I'm very impressed by, and what I think really makes you

an amazing person has nothing to do with your skills at math or even your, not necessarily your conservation work. It's that you let yourself be orchestral. And I think that's what saved you. And I think that like the world is made a better place by people acknowledging that they're not by being who they are. Right. Like that's what makes your conservation work impactful because you actually like give a shit about it. Like imagine an alternate universe where in Silicon Valley everyone went into conservation work.

And you were the one kid that liked mathematics. It doesn't matter. It's just like being who you are. And what I'd love it if you could do is just. recognize that, you know, when you feel, so now we'll try to tie things up for you, okay? And then you can ask questions or we can meditate or whatever. We can talk further. But I'd like to, I'd love it if I could help you walk away from this conversation with something kind of concrete that hopefully you can sort of like implement in some way.

And that concrete thing is recognize that you have this thought machine of Maya is not good enough. And that same thought machine is what drove people to kill themselves in high school. And that same thought machine is what drove you as a third grader to write a letter to your math teacher to like want to be an advanced math class. And just think about the desperation and sadness, right? Like that's where suicide comes from. It comes from a combination of sadness and desperation. Oh, oh. Can you hear me? I'm sorry, I think my stream just, I can hear you now. Okay.

I was saying that I was getting myself going. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. It's not your fault. Just Discord fucks me that way. No, it's not your, it's my internet, I think. So I was just thinking that, you know, when I think about suicide, I think about, if you want to understand suicide, it's sadness and desperation. It's those two things, right?

that's what leads to suicide. And that you understood, like, third grade you, like, understood what that was like. And now what I want you to recognize is that third grade, you lives with you today. Yep. That all throughout it, it started, and, like, there's a part of you that just believes. And then, like, you thankfully were able to find yourself, quote unquote. Right? You found Ms. Kiff and you found Twitch and you found us.

And we embraced you and we love you for who you are. And you absolutely deserve the success that you have because I don't think, I mean, you can't fake it on Twitch. You just can't. Like, Twitch is actually really, really good at, like, picking up things. They're kind of visceral and primitive, but they're, like, very instinctual, you know. And so the next time, can you hear that? Yeah, it's okay.

It sounds like one of my children has hurt herself. Oh. Okay, let me try to wrap. So I was just going to say, so I want you to notice that when you start to feel not good about yourself, or you notice those thoughts or you start to think, like, now we're going to go back to the emo, right? Thinking that if you use this emote, you're a bad person and this and this and this and recognize, like, try to see, like, what of those thoughts is coming from the thought machine of third grade or Maya. And even if it's coming from those that you don't have to, like, follow those. Like even though you're not as smart as other people, it doesn't, like, who the fuck? This is my point.

It's like, there's no, I want you to let go of your judgment of not being as smart as other people. Right. Like, if you're not as good of a streamer as misgift or other people, like, so be it. Like, what's wrong with that? Yeah. Right? You're not a red-tailed hawk. You're a kestrel.

Fine. So, like, be the kestrel. And as best as you can recognize that that part of you is like there and that's going to be like bubbling up thoughts. but you have this other thought machine in which you're not behind the curve. That thought machine doesn't care about whether you're behind the curve or not.

It doesn't care about whether you convince 30 people or 1,000 people or 3,000 people. You just care about convincing people and you just care about pushing forward. And the more that you can listen to that part of yourself, I think the less power, this internalizing your success and insecurity and anxiety and overthinking

will have over you. Cool. Thoughts, questions? I don't think so. That makes sense. I like the bird analogy a lot because I've had a red tail and a cast roll, so I have the utmost respect for both of them. And that does make sense to me.

So it's cool. I'll hold on to that one. But I don't think I have any questions. Okay. Great. Any last, I mean, thoughts, or we can say goodbye, either one. Not that you have to say something. Yeah, I don't, I don't think so.

I mean, this was a really cool conversation. Thank you. You're doing really, really cool stuff on Twitch. I mean, you know that, I'm sure. But, yeah, a lot of people have been, have been, like, touched or, like, affected by watching your stream. So it's cool that you're doing what you're doing. I appreciate it. I try to touch and fondle as many people as I can.

What a close. Good, I'm glad to hear it. All right, well, listen, Maya, I've had a blast too, and I think it's awesome that you're doing this conservation work because of people like you, like my kids, have alligators in the backyard. So thank you for that. Cool, yeah, good. Actually, the reason we have alligators in our backyard is because there's a swamp

or marsh that has this gigantic development that they're destroying their habitat, so they're moving into the lake being in her house. but I really I think it's awesome what you're doing and I share that sentiment and I think you're you know I don't doubt for a minute that you bring real value to Twitch and that you're an awesome person I don't think you know I agree with you

that you're not good at math I mean you're probably still good at math you're just not a math savant okay fine so you suck at math and that's like that's perfectly fine in my book and I think the only reason that you're behind the curve is because like, you're on a curve that you don't belong.

Yeah. And so, of course, you're going to be behind it. And then somewhere along the way, you started to think that you're behind on all curves because Maya is the girl who's behind on the curve. No, that's not true. It's just because you were on so many curves that weren't your curves. Anyway, good luck to you. And, you know, let us know if we can support you in some other way.

Or sometimes people have an aftermath. from these conversations, and I'm glad you have a therapist that you can lean on because then, yeah. But if you want to, you know, if you need some kind of support or something, just let us know. Cool. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. You're very welcome and good luck. All right. And thank you for making the world a better place. Oh, you too.

Take care. All right. You too. Bye. Okay. So, oh shit. I forgot meditation. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. She's done EMDR, so I don't think we're going to. going to meditate. I think it's okay. We're going to let her slide. I just have to think, I don't think meditation is actually good for her right now. I think she just needs to not just process whatever she's thinking or feeling. Can we see the notes that you took? Okay. Let me just think for a second. Let's see if we want to do, do we want to do questions. Let's do questions,

then we'll do reaction. Let's do questions while things are hot. So let's start with a couple of things. One is what is EMDR? So EMDR is essentially, it's something called eye movement, eye movement desensitization something. I forget what the R is. And it's a technique that's heavily related to actually meditation, actually. So I think the developers of EMDR, it's essentially a haderna, if you guys have heard me talk about that.

but it's this thing where you move your eyes in a particular way. And while you're moving your eyes, you explore traumatic events. And so since your attention is focused on the eye movement, it desensitizes you to some of the reactions of the traumatic events. So it's essentially a way of maintaining awareness and not getting sucked into the trauma. And then as you talk about the trauma and you kind of open that up, but like retain your anchor in the eye movement, it sort of helps you process the trauma more easily.

So, yeah, so Ruby Light X is saying, I heard EMDR is used to help patients with trauma, PTSD, but the effectiveness is still questionable. Yeah. So there are mixed studies, right? So there are some studies that show that EMDR is effective, and there are other studies that show that it doesn't seem to be that effective, which is common for a lot of things in medicine.

And I think that, like, you know, think about effectiveness is like monolith. Like its effectiveness is questionable. Well, that just presumes that everyone is going to benefit from the same thing. And in my experience, some things are effective for some people and some things are not effective for people. And generally speaking, you know, it takes time for medicine to tease apart those differences. So for example, we know that, you know, different kinds of people will respond to different treatments for depression. For some people psychotherapy works really well. And psychotherapy is like for other people, stuff like behavioral activation works well. For other people, medication works well. For some people, exercise

works well. So there's a heterogeneous population. So treatment, you shouldn't think about a treatment as quote unquote effective or not effective, although there are some treatments that really don't work for anyone. But, you know, so I think it's fine if a treatment has mixed results. Like, it just to me when you have a study that shows that something is effective in another study that shows that it isn't effective the first question you should ask yourself is you know what are the perspectives of the researchers because sometimes bias can lead to that result but if if there isn't too much bias or you think that the study was done in a high quality way it probably means that the responses are heterogeneous or especially something like EMDR i think there's a lot of variability and the quality of people who do EMDR.

So it's not like standardized. It's not like a pill, right? So like a pill has a particular concentration of a substance that's made in a factory is guaranteed for everyone who gets it. The variability between practitioners of EMDR is high in my experience. Anyway, so let's do questions and then we'll do reaction pog. Ready to go, bro. okay so hello hey okay okay so my question is i guess uh watching my i saw kind of how she was like

influenced by other things and people and how she grew up on how what she's supposed to be i guess and what she's supposed to do yep um but it seems like she was kind of able to figure herself and like figure out like what she's meant to be and stuff okay i wonder if it's not that clear to somebody what they are and how they're supposed to be how they can figure that out i guess i don't know if that's like a good question or if it's too that's that's a fantastic question so first let's understand a couple of things one is that even though maya is moving in the right direction for her life she still carries her demons with her right is that yeah so I think that like a lot of people assume that once you figure out what you want to do in your life,

that the demons go away. But the first thing that I just want to point out is that you carry your demons with you. The process of exercising your demons and then like, you know, finding out what you want to do in life is separate. Right. And I recognize that's not your question. I just think it's an important distinction. So the question, your question is like, how do you find out if you've been told that you should do something your entire life? like how do you figure out what you're supposed to do?

Yes, because like, it might not be as simple, in a way, not simple, but like specific maybe as to like how you're supposed to study a certain thing. It might be just a general thing. Like for me, it's like how I'm generally supposed to be, right? So then I find myself conflicted as to like, am I really nice or am I really annoying or am I really funny or am I what am I? you know, in many different things. That kind of thing. Like, I don't know. It's just confusing.

So what have you been taught that you should be? I guess that's like a huge response, but long story short. I guess like I was taught that I'm supposed to be respectful in any way in some ways. And like I don't know, it's like a very traditional way I grew up, I guess. Sure. So there's like a lot of things with that. It has to do with behavior. It has to do with like maybe.

academics like similar to my affair where you're supposed to go to a good union all that but then I just end up finding myself conflicted in general so what I so what's the conflict so on the one side is be respectful go to good unity and what's on the other side that's the thing I don't really know because in reality I'm just I'm just so used to following the path that I was supposed to take that like now I have different behaviors that don't go together And I don't know which one is like real and which one is not me. I don't know if that makes any sense. Yeah.

So I think that it makes a lot of sense. And I think your answer is actually closer than you think it is. So let's put it this way, right? So like there are some people and do you mind if I ask what your ethnicity is? Yeah, I'm Greek. I don't mind. Okay. So like there are some people who, you know, you've been taught that you should go to good

uni, you should do this, you should do that. And then there are some people like, in your social circle that did those things and are completely fine with it. Yes. Right? Yes. So then you're asking,

how do I figure out like who's the real me? And my point is that first of all, there's a gigantic data point because you're not one of those people. Yes, I'm definitely not. I never felt like a fit in at all. Perfect. So then it goes back to this conflict.

So then the question is like, so you have the real you that's actually trying to come out. And that's why you have conflict. That's why you didn't, You can't be one of those people. So all you need to do is pay attention to where the source of that conflict is coming from. Because there's the path that you should take.

And then there's the part of you that rebels against that path. So all you have to do is figure out, like, what is that part of you that's rebelling? Like, why do I feel like not doing this? What about this doesn't feel right to me? That makes sense. And as you explore, like, why you're conflicted, you're going to find your answer. So like if we think about Maya, she was told in the third grade she wanted to be an advanced math class. Right.

And then as she went to high school, I'm sure there were kids who went to like technology camp or math camp or shit like that. And she said instead of doing that, that doesn't feel right to me what I really want to do. She had, I'm sure she was offered to go to, you know, summer soccer camp or math camp or something like that. And then she noticed a little bit of conflict with herself that. that she really didn't want to do that. What she wanted to do conservation work. She wanted to be with animals. And then she listened to that voice because there was some kind of conflict.

And I think if you just listen, if you tunnel down into why you're conflicted, you'll find out who you are. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Awesome. Good luck. Thanks for your question. Yep. Ready for the next one.

Hello. Hey. Um, So my question is, how do you enhance one Toft machine over another thought machine? For example, my A third grade's Toad Machine and the other one. How do you what? Can you ask your question again, please? Yeah. So how do you enhance one thought machine over another thought machine? Perfect. So that's a wonderful question. So the first is it starts with noticing which thought machine is

So the biggest problem is that when a thought machine is active, we don't accept, we don't recognize that those are just thoughts. We believe them. Yeah. Right. So like when Maya, you know, believes factually that she's not as good as others Twitch streamers, where like, so the first thing you've got to do is recognize that one of your thought machines is going to, how can I say this? So the first thing is to recognize that it's a thought machine that's active instead of truth. Okay. And so do you recognize, like, do you have a particular thought machine that you're aware of? Yeah, I can notice a thought machine that is filled with fear, like for an anxiety about something. Okay. So it starts with recognizing the fear, and then there are two or three other principles. So when you're trying to figure out, when you're saying enhance one thought machine over another,

let's just think about the different things you can do with a thought machine. So one is that you can prioritize one thought machine over the other. The second thing that you can do is directly shrink a thought machine. So if we look at Maya's case, what we see is that she had a breakthrough with EMDR that essentially unpowered or reduced the power to her thought machine that was like about abandonment. did you catch that part? Yeah. And so in the same way, if you figure out where does this thought machine get its power from, where does it originate from?

And if you can find the origin of the thought machine and you can figure out, oh, like, this is like these thoughts are coming from third grade me who felt this way. This isn't actually like true now. It's just like thoughts that are left over from like this traumatic experience. So then you can, huh? Yeah. Sorry, in my case, for example, it came from an horror movie, which stressed me a lot. So when I watched something that could be stressful, I'm like, oh, I'm scared. It could stress me.

On the other way, I have watched like a thousand movies. So I'm like, oh, no, don't worry. It will be a nice movie, et cetera. Yeah, so that's... That's really good. So it's good that you notice that. So then what you have to do is the next time you approach a movie, you need to be aware of like, okay,

is this the fear from the last horror movie that's left over? Or is this like a fear from now? The other thing that I worry a little bit about is that the horror movie may not actually be the origin of it. It may have been the way, like the surface of it. Yeah. So did the horror movie relate to something else that happened to you before? that's possible

but it's it's a question to dig in to be sure absolutely so here's the way that I would like you to explore that so the way that you felt when you think about the horror movie that created this for you

think about the way that you felt in that horror movie and then ask yourself have you felt that way before and if the answer is yes go back to and reflect about how did I feel then why did I feel then? Because I would be really surprised if it was created by the horror movie.

Yes, so I can find the root of the problem. Absolutely. And then as you process that route, you can see a therapist or just reflect about it or think about it. Then the thought machine will start to get powered down. And then the second thing that you can do is as those thoughts or that anxiety starts to rise, you can shift towards another one through a technique like alternate nostril breathing or something like that. you can actually like just shift and then start to you know you're going to have different thoughts or conflicting thoughts and then you can literally steer your mind so you can ask yourself if you say like oh i should watch this movie and i shouldn't watch this movie and then notice that you have the two conflict right you say oh it's okay to watch the movie it'll be a great movie and then kind of notice okay i'm going to choose to watch the movie and there's going to be a part of my mind that is going to be afraid and i'm just going to watch that thing and i'm going to let it be i'm not going to try to not be afraid i'm going to let it be afraid, but I'm also going to try to enjoy the movie.

Yeah, absolutely. It's like the MDR technique. Absolutely, very good. Excellent. Yeah. Perfect. All right. Good luck, man. Thanks a lot for everything you do. Yeah, of course, man. My pleasure.