HealthyGamerGG - Insecurities w/ Hafu

Episode Date: January 9, 2021

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So what do we, what do you go by, by the way? Am I calling you Hafu or should I go? Haffo is good. Haff is great. Okay. And what do you want to talk about today? Oh, whatever. I'm down to talk about whatever.

Okay. That's pretty vague. How are you feeling? Okay, today I'm feeling good. Today is a good day. Some days I don't feel as good. And it probably has to do with viewer numbers. I'm being candid.

Okay. And it feels like maybe I should be able to do more, or maybe I should have been able to put up better content or something. And if I don't win any games, I'm in a really bad mood. You and the rest of the internet. Yeah. So today you're feeling good. And you said in the past, sometimes you feel less good.

So let me just ask you, because I'm kind of feeling a little bit different today. So do you want to talk about like how stuff works or do you want to talk a little bit more about like your emotions and your experience of things? I think either. I feel like I have a pretty, I mean, I think everyone can use therapy. I'm not saying that I'm too smart for therapy or anything like that. But I feel like when I was younger, I was very unhappy. I was definitely depressed. And it was kind of cool because I was so like depressed and insecure.

I put all my time and energy into wow as an escape. And I actually become a pro wow player. And that gave me a lot of confidence because it was, I got it. Yeah. That's my fiance. He's also the streamer. But it gave me a lot of confidence.

And I kind of use like game theory to psychoanalyze myself. And basically in games, I would be like, why am I losing? I don't know. That's not a good thing. why don't I know why I'm losing? Because I don't have enough information about the game. I would try to pinpoint the, you know, exactly what I had to do against every class

and kind of learn from there. And so I kind of used that myself. Like, what do I not like about myself? I didn't like anything about myself when I was 17. Let me tell you. And I was like very passive aggressive. I'd kind of like lie all the time to just try to like make myself feel better. I would talk poorly about others all the time.

I didn't like how I looked. Like everything. And then I kind of went down the line of, you know, what can I fix? And what do I have to just kind of live with? And yeah, now I'm, I feel like now I'm 29 and I kind of fix a lot of those things. I think I overfix the passive aggressive thing. I'm too blunt now. I'm a little too blunt.

So that's something I'm working on is to not be brutally honest. and I can phrase things in a better way. But other than that, I feel like I'm happy with who I am. Okay. So that was not what I was expecting. Oh. No, I mean, I find myself being incredibly curious about everything that you just summarized. Oh.

Like, how? So here's what I'm hearing. So there's a 17-year-old hafu who lies a lot, is passive-aggressive, hates everything about, herself goes on this like journey of introspection and then is now largely happy with who she is as a person yeah which sounds like maybe we should learn about that journey because maybe there's something really really important there sure um and then also if there are particular things that you still want to kind of talk about or try to understand uh you know we can talk about 29 year old hafu yeah and congratulations on being engaged thank you i still definitely have

have a chip on my shoulder. One thing that my entire gaming career, I've always had people tell me I don't deserve it and try to kind of like tear down my successes. For example, in World Warcraft, they said I played with the two best players and I was just kind of like carried to winning a bunch of tournaments. And then I won, I went pro in a second game called Bloodline Champions where I won Dreamhack. They told me that I played with the two best players. I didn't deserve it. Pretty much like in every single achievement that I've done in gaming, people try to take it away from me.

But now, at this point, it's a bit ridiculous. Like, I don't think anyone tried to take away my PogChamps 2 victory. I don't know. It's gotten better over the years. Is PogCamps to a game? Oh, it was a chess tournament, you know? Oh. That streamers got invited to.

Okay. So they invited all these streamers, and, um, I won. Yeah, it's like, it's like Hikaru and like the Bote's sisters. They coach all, like they coach streamers and then the streamers face off. But yeah, lately, lately as I've had more and more achievements, people have kind of just backed off of it. But they're still, you know, on the thread, there's always that one fucker who just still tries to say that I don't deserve it. It's annoying. Deep down, it does knowing me.

And I always feel like I have something to prove, and that's something I'm working on. Because whenever I see someone else, like, Botess tried to defend herself to haters telling her, like, oh, you're only successful because you're a pretty girl. And so, like, oh, don't defend yourself. You don't need to explain yourself, because I feel the same way. You're very energetic. Oh, I've had a lot of coffee. But, yeah, I feel like I still, that's something I want to work on is I don't. feel like I should feel the need to prove myself over and over because some people are just going

to tear down my achievements no matter what I do or what I accomplish or how many things I've done, you know? And, um, but I can't help it. I always feel like I need to prove myself. Yeah, where does that come from? Um, like I said, just when I was younger, it's just all I heard. I've always felt like each one of my achievements there's like an echo chamber of like people of being like, you don't actually deserve it and you just got lucky or like you only have yours because you're female

or you know, there's always some excuse and you're not actually that good blah blah blah here are some stats and oh god I got into it with my fiance because he's really good at games and he doesn't understand my struggle Okay, so one of our biggest fights was like, he doesn't understand the kind of comments that I get as an Asian female

versus him being a white male. And like, I don't know. Like, no one really tries to tear his achievements down. And I would try to explain that to him, and he didn't understand it at first. But now he, like, kind of can see more from my point of view that just, um, I don't know. Maybe it sounds stupid, but it feels like girls have a lot more to prove. in the gaming space.

Sure. What does he understand now that he didn't understand before? That there's inherent biases and that like no one questions his achievements the way that they try to pick apart mine for the validity of mine. Whenever he wins something,

he doesn't have people be like, okay, but he's not that good. Like he doesn't get those kinds of comments. Sure. And it's just like, because he doesn't get it, he thinks that it's fine when I get mine. I don't know, he can't relate to it at all because it doesn't happen to him.

How does it? And for the... Go ahead, sorry. Oh, I mean, the example I always used that helped him realize was I was on his stream and someone called me a Corona slut. And I was like, they're attacking in one little phrase, they're attacking my gender and my race, right? Things that are out of my control. And for him, he was complaining that people said his voice was boring.

And I was like, you know, see how these are different. That means they come from a different place. I don't know. So what I'm hearing is that sort of early on, he wasn't appreciating the significance. Yeah. Right? So he was kind of like.

So he was kind of like. Yeah. But I mean, it sounds like maybe he was equating some of his struggles to some of your struggles. And you felt like that was an unfair comparison. Yes. Yeah. That every, he says like everyone gets bad comments.

Yep. And I was like, yeah. But it's not the same. It's not the same thing. And that would always be annoying me. What's different about it? Well, one is completely out of my control. They're attacking things that I'm born with

and have nothing to do with even the game. Right? They're just like basically just attacking me as a human being instead of like an aspect about me, I guess. So they're not calling you a shitty player. Oh, they do that too. But, you know, they do that with the other stuff. And I don't know.

It just always felt like I had to defend myself for why I got viewers or, I don't know, film stuff. Can I think for a second? Yeah. My child wants to tell me to say no when. You can say no? Can I think for a second? Everyone's like, say no.

Say no. Yeah, if I ask you again, I'm not actually saying. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. I just think it's funny that is it a meme from your stream? Yep. Yeah, okay. It has trickled over.

So I do something pretty unusual, which I guess, you know, has become specific to me, which is that sometimes in conversation, I actually pause to think. And I don't just keep talking. Yeah, that's fair. That's good. I think it's good, too. But, you know, by all means, say no to satisfy your chat. And let's see what happens, because no.

No, no, no, no. Someone's going to do it one day. Yeah, so, okay, hafu, let's, let's talk about, so, hmm, all right, so you feel like you've got something to prove. Yes. Yeah. And I know that I shouldn't feel that way, but I can't help you feel that way. Why? Why shouldn't you feel that way? Because you can't ever please everyone, and there's some people who are just, I don't know, they just live to tear other people down. So, I'm going to just point something out. So I shouldn't feel that way. I think that that doesn't help you solve the problem.

Well, getting upset about it doesn't fix the problem. Yes, agreed. So getting upset about a problem doesn't fix a problem. But when you get upset about a problem and then you beat yourself up for it anyway by telling yourself, I shouldn't feel this way, you're actually like joining. the enemy. Right? Because what you're doing is... Yes. So this is weird. So I want you to just think about this. Let's say that like, you know, I feel insecure about my face. Okay. And then then if I feel insecure about my face, like what's, you know, like telling myself that I shouldn't feel insecure is actually like invalidating the way that I feel. Right. So imagine for a second that you told your boyfriend, you know, when I get called a Corona Slot on. stream, it's different from people commenting on your voice.

And then he says, you shouldn't feel that way. How would you respond to him? I slap the shit out of him. Absolutely, right? So you slap the shit out of him, but when you feel insecure about yourself and then you tell yourself the same thing, what do you do to yourself? I don't think I'm a Corona slut. Yeah, but my point is that like you tell yourself you shouldn't

feel that way and that's totally cool. But if he tells you you shouldn't feel that way, it's the same message. But if it's coming from your mind or his mouth, the response is completely different. Do you see that? Yeah. It's a bad message. But we tell ourselves that for like, we'll get into that. But I just want to point that out to you that like actually if you stop and think about

it, it's absurd. Mm-hmm. And all we have to do is transmit your thoughts to his mouth and then you quickly see that like it's like not actually okay to not feel that way. But don't you think that I shouldn't... If I pay too much attention to all the negative things, don't you think streamers would just collapse? I think...

Let me rephrase. I think... Or reframe the question. If they pay attention to too many negative things, would they collapse? Probably. But... I feel like... Yeah.

Yeah, go ahead. Oh, just... You know, I mean, you're a streamer, so I'm sure you can relate to this, but, like, stream... I mean, for streamers and anyone in the public eye, you get like thousands and thousands of affirmations, right? And then for the one, for the few people who are loud and rude,

you still, those stick out more than the thousands of affirmations, right? Is that not normal? That's pretty normal, no? That's pretty normal for streamers. Yes. That's what I'm saying. So like, I know that if I like focus on only the negatives, it will overrule me. So what I try to do is just to ignore them.

Yep, yeah, I understand. So, cool. So this is why I was thinking, because this is going to be tricky to navigate, but it's going to be awesome. So you have developed an adaptive system, right? So like, let's just think, oh, I'm going to pull out an iPad in a second. Okay, so, should I do it now? Let me think about that. No, I'm not allowed to think.

Okay, okay. So we're going to do this. If you can't fall, if it's easier or it's hard to follow me because I'm about to get abstract. And I'm going to pay attention to my chat. You pay attention to your chat and then you let me know if I should bust it out. Okay. So here's the thing. You have this idea, which is, okay, I can't afford to focus on the negative.

Therefore, when I feel negative, I'm going to fight against that negativity. So telling yourself, I shouldn't feel that way is a fighting against the negativity and essentially an antidote to focusing on the negative from other people. Nope. I didn't follow. Okay. I've had time. Okay. So this is what I'm saying.

Okay. So like you've got, there's positive stuff on the internet. And there's negative stuff, right? Yes. And so the negative stuff from, this is from the internet, enters your mind. So here's your mind. Okay. So then you've got negativity in your mind.

Okay. Okay. So they say, for example, you don't deserve it. Mm-hmm. Okay. You don't deserve it. So then what happens? So like, let's just think about this.

When you encounter something with your sense organs, it enters your mind. And then this thought is present in your mind. Okay? So then what happens is in order to block this thought, you have another thought. You shouldn't care. feel that way, sure.

Kara is better, shorter. Okay, now... We can't see the iPad, that's not my fault. Hold on, hold on, hold on. My producer can help me out. Hello? Hey. Can I office see it?

Oh, oh, hafu, you can't... Oh, good point. Thanks. Okay. Yeah, I don't know what you're saying. I mean, I don't know where you're writing. Yep. Thanks a lot. Missed.

Okay, so we got to... I forgot one step. Oh. There we go. Oh, okay. I was like, okay, okay, okay. Okay, I'm going to zoom in on that one. So, so let me walk you through this again, okay? No, no, it's not, it's just because I'm a boomer because I'm, okay. So this is the positive and negative stuff is over here, okay? This is from the outside. This is your mind. And so it enters your mind. And then this thought gets transmitted from the outside into your mind. Okay. You with me? And then what you do, so this is the, you know, in terms of like biochemistry,

neuroscience and stuff. We use this symbol to imply inhibition. Okay. Okay. So, and then, so this is the thought that you tell yourself to fight against this idea that you don't deserve it. You with me? Yes. Okay.

But now, now, as we pointed out, this thought is actually invalidating, right? You remember, like, why? So, so, because like, like we said with your boyfriend, like, if you feel bad in a particular way, and your boyfriend says, or sorry, fiancé, says you shouldn't care, you'd slap him across the face. Yeah. Right? And so what that means is that, like, oddly enough, when we feel bad about something, instead of in valid, like, telling ourselves, because when you say you shouldn't care, it's sort of like saying like you're stupid for caring.

Yeah, it's more like... Yeah, go ahead. You shouldn't care because if you care every time, then you can't do anything about people like that. And if you waste energy being upset, then you will be upset most of the time. I agree. So remember, this is an adaptive response. Yeah, it's like the best. It's not a perfect thing, but it's more like the best way to handle it.

Because your brain can't ignore all of the negativity. Yep. But if you focus on the negativity and you allow yourself to get upset over it every time and try to defend yourself from it every time, then it becomes more and more toxic. Completely agree. So that's why I think you shouldn't care is the best response that I have. I completely agree, which is why. So here's the thing. When you tell yourself you don't care, what happens to this thought?

That it doesn't matter. So what's the chip on your shoulder? That there's still people saying that shit is annoying. Right? So what this means is like this is still an open wound. Uh-huh. Right? Like the reason that this is the chip on your shoulder is because this is the feeling that you invalidate for yourself.

So essentially what your adaptive response does is takes that emotional hurt and makes it dormant. right? So you suppress it by telling yourself you shouldn't care. But the problem is that it continues to live there and you never really get free of it. But there's no solution other than, like, there's no better way to deal with it. Like, I understand what you're saying. I'm doing a sleeping under the rug, right? Yep, very good. Yes. I understand, but there's nothing I can do. I can't do anything about it. I can't, I can't. Yeah, I feel like that's the best way to handle it.

Do you suggest another way to handle it? Absolutely. I'm going to teach you another way. Oh, okay. Right? So, totally. Okay, so let's talk for a second. All right, so hold on.

Oh, fuck. Oh, this will be interesting. Yeah, because whenever I've thought about this, it was like, there's nothing I can do to control other people. So the best way I can... Oh, shit. Hung up on it. Sorry.

Hello. Yeah, sorry. I just was, I tried to stop screen sharing with you and hung up on you instead because boomer. Oh, you're all good. You're all good. Okay. You were saying. Yeah.

I mean, from my perspective, it's the best way because there is no other solution. I understand where you're coming from. And I think that's what gets us into these problems is that we've lost the understanding of like how this stuff works. So I think that it's very good that you have developed. this adaptive response, but I think that in general, if we want to grow as people, what happens is that our minds and our brains

come up with the best answer that they know how, and when did you start telling yourself that you shouldn't feel that way? Um, I'm gonna cry, but I used to just get a lot of harassment on Twitch. And, oh, I'm gonna cry. I mean, it's gonna cry at some point.

But just, it used to be really bad for me. And Twitch didn't have many systems to protect streamers. And I had to make the choice between, like, streaming or quitting, right? Like, I thought I had to just live with it, nor I to quit. And I almost did quit. I almost did quit. It's gotten so much better over the years, and I don't face any of that now. So it's in the past, but...

Is it? A lot of it is. It's like, I can't even express how bad it was. I can't even express how bad it was. It was so fucking bad back then. But, you know, it was my career, and I always felt like, you know, streaming is my job. I dropped out of college for it, something I love doing.

And it just felt like I had to, uh... I had to suck it up or I had to quit. And so I really tried to suck it up for a long, long, long time. And I got to a breaking point and I almost did quit. And I don't even remember why I didn't. But yeah, I mean, I have no complaints anymore. I have a really nice community and everyone's nice and everyone else's communities too whenever I collab with people.

And it's been so much better. But it felt like if I didn't have the attitude that I would just break. Like, I couldn't do anything else about it. It was so bad that I would bottle it up and then just like break down once every month. It'd be like when I'm PMSing or something and I like couldn't handle it. And take a day off and I would just cry. Every month. I haven't cried in so long, to be honest.

But I remember it was so, so, so hard. But I mean, what else can I do? Like, I don't know, it felt like it was the only thing I knew how to do was stream. So I just felt like I should just suck it up. Sounds like you felt really trapped. Yeah, really, really trapped. But yeah, like I said, it's gotten so much better now. And times are changing and, like, I don't know, harassment used to be, like, cool, like 10 years ago.

It really was. And I feel like that has changed and I can't emphasize how grateful I am for, like, Twitch. You know, like there's auto mod, there's like, I don't know, a lot of, there's just a lot more pools to help streamers. And, yeah, I haven't even thought about it so long. I've just been so grateful the last few years I've been very happy and I, yeah, I don't have that to complain about anymore for sure. Sorry, I'm crying a lot. But yeah, it was definitely something I had to teach myself as just to care less, because I remember talking to Destiny about this.

You know Destiny, the streamer, right? He's a good friend of mine. And he's like, the only thing you can do is let it not affect you because there's nothing you can do to control other people because it's not going to stop. And I was like, yeah, that's right. I have to change how I think about it because it's like the only thing I can do. And so, yeah, that's how I handled it for years and years.

So, hafu, I'm going to do something a little bit unorthodox. So a lot of times when people come on stream and they share powerful feelings, I try to explore those feelings with them to sort of help them work through it. Not going to do that right now. We can do it in a little bit. Okay. Sure. How do you understand?

You used to cry a lot, right? And what I said is that when you tell yourself, let me just walk you through. what my opinion is, okay, just so we can kind of get to this point. So you get hate from the internet. It hurts. You, this whole emotion that your feeling started with the question, when did you start or when did you learn to tell yourself not to care? And when I was explaining, I said that when you, when you invalidate your own feelings, what you cause them to do is to go dormant. So it's a symptomatic relief, okay? It's sort of like saying, you know, I can, let me just think of a good example.

So if I've got like, you know, if I'm sick and I take like ibuprofen or Tylenol or a Cedaminophen, it'll make the fever go away. But as soon as I, as soon as the Tylenol wears off, the fever comes back. Yeah. Right? And so what we see is you're constantly telling yourself, you shouldn't feel this way, you shouldn't feel this way, you shouldn't feel this way. You're also saying that this is the only thing I knew how to do, which is completely.

understandable because it tends to be how our mind reacts to things. So good for you for finding that inner strength to invalidate yourself for years and years and years and then you say that it's in the past. And this is my whole point, is that like, it hasn't solved anything because we can ask you one question and all of those feelings that you've buried and swept under the rug are like right underneath the surface. Yeah, they are. They are. Definitely there. But it doesn't, I don't have to deal with it anymore. So it feels like it's done, you know?

Yep. Yeah, it certainly feels that way because you're taking Tylenol every day because you're telling yourself you shouldn't care. But the reason that you're not at peace is because it's still there and it's like trickling up these thoughts of doubt, right? Because in your mind, somewhere along the way. So if you tell yourself, I shouldn't think that. this way, what that also means is that there is a part of you that does think that way. Yeah. Does that make sense?

So there's actually a part of you that does believe that you don't deserve it, which in turn means that since you have that insecurity, that's why the things that they say hurt so much. Because if we look at the nature of insecurity, you know, people can say a thousand bad things about people, but what my mind is going to do is to latch on the one thing that hits where it hurts. That's the chink in my armor. Yeah, that makes sense. Right? And so, like, they're continually, like, getting through the chink in your armor and you're continually, like, healing yourself up by telling yourself you shouldn't have to, you know, feel this way. And so the other solution, which is, you can't figure this shit out on your, on your own. So I think

your solution was a good one. It's the one that most streamers come up with. but the more permanent solution is to fix the chink in the armor, to get to the root of that insecurity. Because if you get to the root of the insecurity, if someone says, if someone starts hating on you for your love of mayonnaise, like, you're not going to give a shit about that

because you're not insecure about your love of mayonnaise, right? Like, it just bounces. Their hate will just bounce right off of you. And I'm sure you faced a lot of hate in your life, but like a lot of it bounces right off right it's even at the beginning you said that there's a small portion that like cracks through people can say 99 good things and they can even say 10 bad things and then like the one that really like you're worried about is the one that's going to get through yeah thoughts about this questions how to think don't fully agree because I'm being very honest

good I know that I'm fucking good at games and I know that I deserve all of my achievements, but it's annoying to have to read on every thread that I do well on, people trying to literally, you know, like leave through all of my accomplishments to try to belittle them. But I genuinely think that I deserve my achievements. I completely agree. So I don't, so this is where, what's really confusing for a lot of people is that

our mind doesn't think one way, right? There's a part of your mind. I'd say 95% of your mind if I just had to give you odds. 95% of your mind is confident in your achievements and you know that their haters are going to hate. Yeah. The problem is that 5% of you actually believes it, which is why you have to tell yourself that you shouldn't feel that way. So you can believe that you are confident and you deserve your success. And at the same time, you can believe that you don't deserve it, which is mind-boggling.

You think I really, so you think I take offense to it because I really, at the root of it, don't believe I deserve it. Not at the root that simultaneously, you've got two roots. You've got a very big tree which says I do deserve it. And right next to it, you have a smaller tree which says I don't deserve it. Hmm. But I really do think I deserve it. I know you do. I think if the, if the, if the, if the.

deserve it tree wasn't as big and strong as it was, you wouldn't be able to make it as a streamer. What I'm saying is that I can ask you a relatively benign question, which is where did you learn how to tell yourself I shouldn't, you shouldn't, like when I asked the relatively benign question, we weren't, I didn't like walk you to an emotional point, right? Like I didn't like, it was just like, I'm drawing a fucking picture on an iPad and then I turn it off and I ask you one question and boom, all these emotions come on. Yeah, yeah. That tells me that there's something dormant there. There's emotional energy that's dormant. And we kind of like struck gold, right? Like just from a mental standpoint.

No, I mean, I think being a stream is really taxing. I think everyone whose streams can relate because you, you know, you hear so many good things, but you also hear a lot of bad things. And like you said, some of them do get through. They do hit some things that make, you know, hit points of insecurity for sure. But, yeah, I mean, people handle it in different ways. I understand what you're saying, but I feel like I can't solve. Can everyone solve all their insecurities?

Well, so the answer to that, I believe, is yes. Really? Yep. You're insecure about nothing. Yes. What? Sure. Zero things.

So zero things that people say to you affect you. Yes. Yes. You Superman, dude? No, so they have a, they have a, I mean, that's been well described, right? So like, there's this religion called Buddhism and this religion called Hinduism. Buddhism? Buddhism.

Oh, Buddhism. Okay. Yeah, right? And so in Buddhism, they have a system of training to attain a state of moksha or enlightenment, which is a state of eternal bliss, which is what you're talking about. And the cool thing is that like if we think about it In your case you're saying can you solve all insecurities? You don't need to solve all insecurities, hafu.

You need to solve one insecurity. Fuck the rest of them. I mean, whatever. Okay, okay. Right? So like later in life you may be if you, you know, choose or lucky or unlucky enough to have kids, however, whatever your value system is, then I'm sure you're going to get a whole new crop of insecurities

about being a sufficient mother. So you'll continue to have them. but what I'm saying is it seems like there's one insecurity that affects you, affect isn't the right word, that demands a lot of your cognitive energy on a relatively regular basis that keeps you from being at peace. You have to work at it, which I don't want for you.

I want you to just be chill, right? Like, I want you to be, like, free of that and be, like, have a mind that's, like, tranquil that doesn't have to fight against that. I understand, but it's like fighting against systematic, like, I hate talking about, but like, there's sexism, right? There's like definitely massaging on Twitch, just in gaming in general, because it's so male dominated. Sure. And so I feel like I'm fighting against that, which is so ridiculous. Like, instead of fighting against it, just to be at peace with it.

Does that make sense? I know I'm not fully at peace, but that's what it feels like I'm trying to fight. It's like, that's not a war I want to wage. I don't want to like. But you fight the battle. already. Yeah, but it's just some people you just, I don't know. I just know, because it affects me that then I'm not talking about dealing with toxicity

or masculinity or male dominated, whatever. You say Twitch has gotten a lot better. What I'm talking about, what I'm talking about is that despite the fact that Twitch has gotten a lot better, you carry this thing with you. It's a chip on your shoulder. And what I am hypothesizing to you is that there is a method to get the chip off your shoulder. And it has nothing to do with fixing the internet. Go ahead. Question. I think it's a chip that every girl has to kind of wear. That's sad. And if I had my way...

It is sad, but it's the truth. And I mean, the world isn't perfect, but it's getting better and that's fine. And like, I mean, it's a world that I choose to live in, right? Like, I'm choosing to be a streamer and I I mean my demographic on Twitch was 97% male until this year and then I have like a 20% female fan base now like it's it's because of the numbers right like you can't help it when I don't agree so here's what it is yeah sure yeah so so so let me let me let me share my perspective the world is going to be what it is we can't control the world I completely agree if you're a female streamer, are you going to have to deal with toxicity and hatred due to your race? The various fetishes of your audience and your gender? Absolutely. I completely agree with you

that you cannot fix that. I also agree with you that if you are a female streamer on Twitch, you are going to have to deal with that. Yes. I completely agree. Can you change that? Actually, I'm not going to say you can't change that because with concerted effort as a community, we can change that. But what I'm saying is that all of that is outside of you. Okay. And the outside world sends things. It's like, I want you to think about the barrier of your house, right? And there's a lot of stuff going on outside. And some things from outside of your house enter into your house. Yes. They cross the plane of the outside world and into your mind. And what I'm saying is that a chip, You can have, so I'm trying to help the internet with their mental health.

It is a huge problem. But it is not a chip on my shoulder. It is not something that causes me pain. It is not something that I struggle with every day. In fact, it does the exact opposite. It's a buff. The weight of the problem that I am trying to solve allows me because of the way, I mean, now I'm going to sound kind of, you know, like I'm awesome,

which, okay. But because of the way that I've been taught to train my mind, the weight of the challenges against me gives me fuel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? And I know everyone understands that. Like, I know you've been in that situation where you have dealt with really painful, challenging,

and unsolvable circumstances, and that's when you go super-sayan. Mm-hmm. And what I'm telling you is that it is my belief and has been my experience, that despite the world being the way that it is, when it crosses into your mind, based on the way that your mind has evolved to deal with that, has allowed you to survive, but has cost you peace. And what I'm saying is that there's a possibility that there's a different way.

And that you resist that is wonderful. I'm going to try to convince you, but is great. Right? Well, it's like... Okay, I... Yeah, I think I'm understanding what you're saying. But I don't agree that... You're saying that you can control what comes into your barrier, right?

Is that what you're saying? Yes. What you bring in. And I'm saying that I don't think that's possible. Of course. Of course you don't. I feel like if you try to control that too much, I just... That's a big battle, dude.

You're damn right it is. I'm not willing to... fight that war. Okay, okay. So that's fair. So I think you're right, actually. So you say it may be impossible, but what I'm really hearing you saying is that sounds fucking exhausting.

And it is very difficult. Yeah, it's exhausting. It's very difficult and it's not... Say it? Yeah. It's just not worth it. There we go. Because, like, okay, the base example is like, let's say a girl and a guy are playing

a competitive game. They both have 20,000 viewers. Which streamer do, which one of them do you think is better at the game? I think people always think the guy is better. I have no idea. Okay, I'm just saying this is like the, it's like an instant assumption that the guy is fucking good at the game. And that's what, that's like an instant bias.

And it's not like a very harmful bias, but it also is at the same time. And that's the kind of thing that I feel like it's not worth fighting against. It's, you know, biases happen for a reason. It's not rights, but it's just how it is. I assume that the guy is better. And that's fucked up. I'm just saying there's like a lot of things that are just ingrained that it's just,

you can't change the world instantly. You know, like you can't change the Twitch world instantly. It's because what am I talking about changing? What's your understanding of what I'm talking about changing? Where is the effort that we're putting in? What direction is it pointed? Is it pointed outside of that? house or inside of the house?

Yeah, but would my stream be inside my house? Would my chat be inside my house? Very good question. What do you think? Because if it is, because I would say you would consider it is because that's the stuff you're allowing to enter your mind, right? Okay, so, so, so yeah, so this is exactly, so yeah, okay, cool. So let me start with this.

You said this sounds really hard and it sounds like it's not worth it. And I completely agree with you. So there's a reason why very few people, attain enlightenment. And the whole reason, a little tidbit from my bio, the whole reason I became a doctor is because my spiritual teachers told me that unless you can become incredibly successful in the material world, that's like the prologue for like playing the spiritual game. Because enlightenment is way harder than anything you can achieve. And at that point, I had almost failed out of college, was, had a two point, less than a two point O GPA. And they were like,

if you can't make it in the real world, you're not going to make it over. here. And then they told me at the age of 21, go back to school, become as accomplished as you can possibly be, become as successful as you can possibly be in the real world, and come back when you're 30. And if you haven't made it in the material world, we're not interested. So you're right. Sorry, this is for religion? Yep. I tried to become a monk. They can do that. They can do this. I thought religion was all accepting.

No. Oh. Right? So you're right. Okay, sorry, I know nothing about religion. No, no, yeah. I don't think it's really religion. I think, hafu, you're right that you say this sounds really, really hard, and it sounds like it's not worth it.

And I'm telling you that your instinct is correct. It is cognitively very, very exhausting. It's a lot of work, and it's very difficult to attain, to train your mind to the point where the outside world no longer affects you. But it's possible. Now this is where like when we get down to it What I'm talking about hapu has nothing to do with changing the outside world It has to do with putting the chip taking the chip off of your shoulder And what I'm saying and this is tricky because

I'm not saying that you don't care What I'm saying is that it's it's hard because you just have to feel it to know what it is You can fight for a cause without that cause hurting you You can believe in doing something that is good and right and righteous and just without it hurting you. Now, oftentimes, the root to that fight comes from your own personal suffering, which is exactly what happened in my case. Because I was 21 playing too many video games and, like, lost and directionless.

And so I was... I have a question. Sorry, I'm thinking back about what you're saying. Because you were saying how, let's say, someone makes fun of my love for mayonnaise, which I hate mayonnaise, by the way, but yeah, but something that's so insignificant because you don't give a shit. about it, that it wouldn't hurt you, right? Yep.

That's what you're saying. Yep. But let's just say, like, someone comes in and calls you, what's a very tame insult? A dumb ass. Yeah, a no, I have no. I don't, it's just not very nice. Like, it's just annoying, you know what I mean? To read that.

It's not like, I'm not insecure about anything, but I wouldn't like that. Does that make sense? I feel like it doesn't have to be that way. Just a negative comment is a negative comment, period. even if it doesn't affect you, it's still like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why do you come in here and be an asshole to me? That is affecting you.

No, but... You're reacting to it. Right? If it annoys you, then it's affecting you. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think. Okay, I'm trying to think. Someone says,

you're a poo-poo head. Okay, someone says, everyone calls it and calls you a poo-poo-head. Am I insecure about being a poo-po-hood? If I, this, that guy is just, just try to be mean to me. Is that me being insecure? Or is it just one guy's, you know,

like he's just trying to... I don't know. I'm trying to think of like the most neutral insult that I feel like I wouldn't actually care about, but it's still like negative. It's obviously negative and meant to be taken in a negative way. It is someone clearly trying to insult you.

Trying to make you feel bad. Even if it doesn't make you feel bad, it's just not nice to see. Does that make sense? Sure. So I'm not... So I'm with you. think. So I think that, so it's interesting. We're stumbling upon something that's very, very kind of important, but I think we're still, it's hard for me to jump there. So I'm going to try

jumping there and I can fill in the gap. So sometimes I'll try to teach people that detachment is different from apathy. So what I try to do is I'll work with like clients who are like working in, let's say, investment banking. This is my favorite most common example because you see this all the time. And they're very ambitious. And I tell them, you keep suffering because you are ambitious. And then they say, but if I'm not ambitious, how can I do a good job? And I tell them, you can absolutely do an even better job if you give up your ambition. And that gets really, really confusing for people. Right? So, and this is where, this is like, this is the, good. I'm glad you're pushing back. And Hopper, I want you to push back as hard as you possibly can, okay? Don't worry. I will.

Fantastic, right? Okay. So let's just think about that for a second. Here I am trying to educate you and you're pushing back. Why am I not getting upset? Because you want me to challenge your ideas so that I understand things better. Yeah, but like, but why do I think that way? Right.

A different person could say, oh, she doesn't know what she's talking about. I'm the Harvard-trained psychiatrist. Yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah, but why doesn't that piss me off? Because it's your prerogative to get me to understand. So it's going to ask a question, no?

So my point is that, like, there is an internal way that I receive what you do that changes my perception of, like, suffering or joy given the same stimulus. But I'm not trying to be, like, offensive. Sure, but if I was a narcissistic asshole, I would take offense anyway.

Right? So my point is that if you question me, because I mean, I've worked with people like this. I had an interaction with someone like this a couple days ago who like, like, how dare you question me? You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I'm a medical doctor and you're not. Right? So like the stimulus from the outside is the same. It's the way that you build your house that allows you to a pre-react.

something that could be like a challenge or confusion or whatever, or you could interpret as an insult. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. And so what I'm saying is that like, I just wanted to kind of point that out. And I'll kind of get back to like detachment. So essentially the reason that I am this way is because I'm not trying to convince you of anything. If I was attached to convince you of convincing you or teaching you something, I would be frustrated. But instead I'm unattached from that. And I say, let's have a conversation with hapoo. And let's see what. it goes. Like, this could be fun. Okay, she's pushing back. She's resistant to this idea. Cool. Let's play with it and see how we can approach it. It's all about the attitude. Yes. Yeah, your attitude, yes. I mean, that's kind of what I think what Destiny was trying to tell me. I was like, I have to change my attitude towards it. But instead of, but you're saying it's how to change your attitude instead of just telling yourself that you shouldn't care. Right? Yeah, because I think. I think, that's really hard. Yeah. So,

So here's, I'll just be explicit for a second. So I think that what you have is this ball of undigested emotion, which is called a sumscar. And this is what happens essentially with trauma is like a good example where like, I use this example with my kid where like my kid is scared of dogs. And so, you know, if she's walking down the street and she gets bit by a dog one day, the next day when she sees a dog across the street, she freaks out. She gets this upwelling of emotion that is inappropriate to the actual.

situation. Yes. Okay. Because that emotion is a leftover from like hurt past. Okay. And that some scar is also what we call an insecurity. Right. So if I'm insecure about my appearance, it's because I got bullied a lot when I was in grade school and people called me ugly. And so then I carry that emotional hurt with me so that when, you know, when I message someone on Tinder and I'm like, hey, do you want to hang out sometime? And they say no, my mind fills in the reason that they're saying no, is, you It's not because I'm a narcissistic asshole. It's because I'm not a Chad Thundercock, right? Yeah.

Like, we fill it in based on our past emotional hurts. And what I'm telling you is that it's in my experience, and I feel pretty confident about this, you can digest that emotional energy. And once that emotional energy has been digested, the insecurity is gone. This is essentially what happens in therapy. Yeah, I'm skeptical.

I feel like I cannot Like um No Yeah I understand what you're saying But I'm trying to imagine Be getting to the estate And just like having a hundred like a thousand people come in my chat Say you're fucking ugly and then not caring

I'm trying to really imagine that situation And I don't see a happening I don't see a happening Yeah so so of course not right so now now hafu I think your skepticism is very well founded And the simple reason is that Sometimes it's hard when we have a wealth of experience that points us one way,

and then some fucking asshole comes along on Twitch and tells you that it doesn't have to be that way. And you've been streaming on Twitch for how many years? Oh, okay. Well, I'll challenge that one more time. Okay? So the reason, let's say like something I'm not insecure about. Okay, I'm blunt, right?

I'm really blunt. So let's say a thousand people come to my chat and say you're so fucking passive-aggressive, of what is wrong with you, it would get to me because I'm like, oh, what did I do that was passive aggressive? And then I would like really question it. And, you know, if they're being very awesome. But why do you use the term passive aggressive? Why are you using passive aggressive in this example? Why do you pick that example? Because I'm not passive aggressive at all. I'm just aggressive. I'm just blunt. So like that would be something I'm not insecure about because I'm no, I'm the very opposite. You know? So I'm trying to think of like something that they could say

that's negative about me that I don't feel insecure about at all. But still, I would address it because I'd be like, wait, why the hell are they seeing that? You can continue to address things. So this is where the detachment and apathy are different. It doesn't mean that you don't act in the world. It just means that you don't suffer because of it. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think I wouldn't suffer for that. But I think I would suffer if a thousand people came in and told me I was ugly. Yep. Because you're probably a little bit insecure about your appearance, like most human beings. Yeah. I guess you don't fully. I don't know. Right. So now we can even.

even see we can, yeah, Hafu, I'm glad you're pushing back because I think you're digging yourself into a hole. Okay. No, no, no, it's good. So, so, I don't know, I think it's, I think it's very good. So, so now we can even see another principle of sum scars, which is that depending on the size of the sumscar, it's like the weakness in your armor gets weaker and weaker and weaker. Because in terms of like, you're, you deserving it, your sum scar there is larger. Okay. And it's not really that you don't deserve to win. The sumscar is actually something else, which we'll get to later if we ever get there. But it has to do, I think, more with your loneliness and your isolation and you being put back into a place when you were really hurting. Because that's the

that's the volcanic eruption that we got for you. So there's the, and the other thing about a sumscar is the tiny or the sumscar, the more comments it's going to take for you to be hurt there. Crack. But for you to, yeah. Right? So there was one comment that like, and I mean, there's a reason why I picked that, right? So I know which questions to ask, because I've sniffed out your sumscar, and then I have to just like lance it with a, you know, with a pin. It doesn't take a whole lot, and the emotion comes rushing out. And there are other insecurities that you have that it's going to take like a drill to get them out.

Okay. And it just has to do with the size of the emotional energy. And let me put it to you this way. Since we know that there are big sum scars and small sum scars, what if I told you that you could take a big sumscar and turn it into a small sumscar? If you could feel, if you could respond. when people say, oh, you don't deserve it, you would respond to it the way that you do

if people tell you're ugly. Which is that it hurts a little bit, but it doesn't really hurt that much. Hmm. Would that be worth it? The deserving thing? It's not really deserving. I could be honest, I really think I deserve things.

I know. That's why deserving is a bad, is a bad, it's not really deserving. It's not, it's not deserving. That's not really what the Smskhar is. If you want to get to the, Samskar. We can go right. More so, more so thinking back what, well, the point at which I cried was thinking about how I used to be so scared to collab with people and kind of like have to deal with

chat every day. Because yeah, you know. So if you want to get really precise, it's not deserving. Okay. Yeah, yeah, it's not that. I would like to. I know that. So here's the reason why deserving brings it out because our brain scans the external environment and tells us when to bring a sumscar to the surface. And what's happening is when people, so like my daughter who's been traumatized by a dog, if she sees a cat across the street, the sumscar doesn't trigger. So the only thing, it's not, I know you deserve it. I've sort of gleaned that.

But I think what happens is those discussions remind your mind of a time. when you felt a particular way. So that's like the trigger. It looks like a dog. And then those emotions, which really have nothing to do with deserving, because you've built up other sunscars over the last decade. But that emotional energy is still there. Definitely.

No, no, no. I think, yeah, I think you've hit the, I, yeah. You're right. I have internalized a lot of it because that was the best way and you how to at the time. Yeah. And it definitely still is. there. But it has gotten better to the point where I don't, it used to be stuff I would think about

on the daily. Like, it would eat at me every day constantly. Now I don't think about it. Almost ever. And, yeah, like I said, I used to have monthly cries. Like, it was like clockwork. Because, you know, you have to bottle up somewhere. And then at one point, it's just overwhelming.

And then boom, cry it out. And then just like start sucking up again. Or sucking. Yeah, yeah. just like, um, ignoring it, ignoring it up again. Yeah, sucking it up again. And important two letters there. Yeah.

And now I don't, I don't have that. Like in the last year, two years, I haven't had that at all. I haven't cried because of something like that in over two years. So it feels better now. But when I think about that time, yeah, it was just so bad. And, um, I don't know. It feels like because it doesn't happen anymore, I don't have to deal with it. Sure. It's been swept under the rug.

Yeah, but it's like a, you know, it's like neatly packed now. Yeah. And dormant. Yep. It's a nice little volcano that has you. It's not. It's just, yeah. So this is where, you know, Hafu, you've got to make a choice.

Okay. And so if you want to let it lie dormant, you can let it lie dormant the rest of your life. And then depending on whether you believe. the Hindus, would this disagree about this? It'll carry with you to the next life. And, you know, it's kind of immaterial,

but in my experience, and take this for what you will, I'm not pushing you. I don't think you need to fix this because I think you're an incredibly strong, resilient woman who has learned how to, you know, adapt to your circumstances, learned how to be successful,

learn how to find happiness, You're not that girl who bottles everything up and cries once a month anymore. You've, like, grown into something truly awesome with you. And at some point, you have to decide whether you want to just let this stuff go completely. Whether you want to open up the rug, because you're right, you've packaged it very neatly, and then get rid of it. And I suspect it's going to be far easier than you think it is. Because when you open up that...

that you think. I think it's a whole bag of trauma that I just don't want to look at. Yep, yep. It's a very traumatic time in my life. Yep, so let me explain to you. Let me explain to you why I think it'll be easier than you think it is. Because you're, when you rate its difficulty, right? So you're pro-wow streamers.

So like you wiped on that mob when you were 17. You're not, you're not level 17. anymore, you're level 29. You're not the same person who faced those problems. You're a completely different person. You're stronger, you're more resilient, you're more confident, you have the support of a loving fiancé,

you have the support of a loving community. So you're like partying up and zoning into like, what's that fucking low level instance? I quit. Wow, 10 years ago, dude. I don't know. Anyway. I won my tournaments when I was 17. I'm 29. Yeah, so what I'm saying is that, Hafu, I think the reason that it'll be easier to deal with than you think about is because your assessment of the challenge rating of this problem was made when you were way lower level than you are now.

I don't think so. Okay. I feel like this is not something I can tackle. I'll be honest. I'm thinking about it. I don't think it's something I can get over. Yeah, so I think that's reasonable because. I don't think it's something I have to get over.

Yeah. I agree with, I understand what you're saying. I'm not going to push you, but I think that it's reasonable to think that you're not going to be able to go over it because you haven't done it yet. Right. If you go into a raid boss and you wipe 10 times and then I ask you, can you down the boss? You're going to be like, eh. Yeah. Not really.

So I think that a lot of your resistance is completely understandable because I do think you're someone who relies a lot on your own experience. I'd say that you tend to not have faith in other people's opinions. No, not that I don't have faith in your opinion. I don't consider it a bad thing. I think it's probably part of what's made you successful as successful as you are. Thank you. Because you rely so heavily on your own judgment. Yes, thank you.

You've come to trust yourself. And because the world told you something, just think about this for a second. The world has been telling you something and you had to learn how to not trust. what they're saying. And so, of course, you wouldn't trust me because you've learned how to not trust what other people say. You're like, I need to do it until I see it, taste it, and eat it for myself, I don't think so. Yeah. Now, whether that is a part of your interpersonal conflict, we can, you know.

No, I agree. But even when you were passive aggressive, you were still quite rigid in your thinking. You just didn't let people know. This is part of your temper. men. Well, a lot of things. Yeah, I was just able to psychoanalyze myself and kind of pick a part. Like, well, for example, like with my ex, I would always try to like test him to see if you really loved me and like kind of like pick a fight and stuff. And then I noticed I was doing that and I stopped. And I would catch myself doing it. It's really hard to like look at, you know, bad parts of yourself. But I was actually because of games, I was able to do that.

And, yeah, I don't know. I'm much happy with who I am now than I was, like, a decade ago. And it wasn't, like, an overnight thing. It was, like, addressing one problem at a time, kind of being like, why the fuck am I doing this thing? Like, when I think about it from a logical standpoint, like, it makes no sense. And then I can address it from there. But, yeah, it's not like an overnight. It wasn't, like, an overnight realization.

Yeah, so I'm just confused now because you seem to be making a really, really great, argument for what I'm saying, because that's what I'm encouraging you to do. So awareness of a somscar is what leads to its emotional digestion. And the change does take time. It is effortful. And you end up way happier at the end of it. And if you do that enough times and you get really good at that process of psychoanalizing yourself, noticing what you do and altering it, if you do that over and over and over and over again, at some point you level up in your skill at doing that. Okay, but let's, okay, let's break down one of them.

Okay. For example, I don't think I'm ugly, but I don't think I'm like the most attractive person ever, right? So I'm not insecure about my looks, but I don't love my looks, you know? I don't think I'm like, you know, you know, like I think at one point you have to just accept who you are. It's like, do I want to get,

plastic surgery or am I okay with who I am? Right? Like, those are your options. You can, like, try to change how you look so you really like how you look or you can accept it, right? Those are your options. Do you agree? Yeah.

So I've gotten with the acceptance route where I'm okay with how I look, but it doesn't mean that I feel is great about how I look, right? Sure. So how am I supposed to not, how am I supposed to get over if people come in and tell me I'm ugly? This is a dumb one. But, like, how am I supposed to just disregard? those comments forever if I have to just settle with I'm okay with it but I don't you know

well because because so so so yeah it makes a lot of sense but like so but I feel like yeah so that makes perfect sense because the whole point is that you know you have a small sum scar there and so then you're saying how do I learn to be okay with the sumscar because you haven't fully accepted the way that you look because you're unhappy I do fully No, I'm not super unhappy. It's just like, I'm not... So it's a tiny... Yeah, but you're not super unhappy with it,

which also means that you're a little bit unhappy with it. Yes, yes. I'm definitely a little unhappy with how I look, but I feel like it's not a real insecurity. Yeah, because it's not a real insecurity. It's a baby insecurity. But then that sumscar, how do I get that sumscar to go away?

You continue working on it, right? So this is where I can show you how to work on a sumscar. Yeah, so, okay, so for that one, how could we tackle that? What are you unhappy about with your appearance? I hate this so much. I hate this. See, there it is.

There's the subscar. You see that? Right beneath the surface. Right beneath the surface. It's not as small as you think it is, Hafu. I mean, I know what I don't like about myself. I don't want to. No, no.

I know what I don't like about myself, but I don't want to like go through all these little things. But what? Okay, there it is. No, no, no. You don't get to get away with that. You said, I know what I don't. don't like about myself, but I don't want

to not like that. There it is. There's the fucking, you remember the diagram where you're invalidating the way that you feel? The invalidation. I wish my pores were smaller. I wish my boobs were a little bigger. I wish my nose was a little smaller. I wish my eyes were a little bigger.

I wish I had more fuller eyebrows naturally. I wish I wish my skin was less oily. I wish my butt was bigger. I'm working on that. I'm going to the gym. How does it feel to say that? It's fine.

I'm okay saying all this stuff. And that's the thing. It's like, I'm okay saying it's just weird to say this stuff. Because I actually am okay. But I'm saying like- Close your eyes. Stop talking for a second. How do you feel?

What do you notice in yourself? What are you feeling right now? Slightly embarrassed that I have to go through all the flaws. Yeah, right? So that's the sumscar. Because if you were truly, like if I said, I'm fine with my hair. I have big pores too.

I kind of wish my dick was bigger. I'm skinny fat. I have dad bod. Like, you know, I could list the things that I know that are not good about my appearance. And I don't really give a fuck. Like, I truly, I mean, I have a little insecurity there too, because I can feel that embarrassment about some of those things and not other things. Security is.

Sure, I'm not fucking enlightened. You just don't. But I never said I was enlightened. Yes, you did. You just told me. What are you talking about? I said you have no insecurities. You're like, yeah, I have no insecurities.

No, no, no. Clip it and ship it. He fucking said it. Before, before. I didn't say I have no insecurities. You said it. You have this impossible. No, I'm not enlightened, Hafu.

I'm a fucking Twitch noob. Oh. I swear you said you have no one. I said you're not insecure about anything. You're like, yeah. Nothing that chat could say could affect me. Oh, no, no. Oh, yeah.

You did say that. No, I mean, I I say that I really don't get affected by chat. That's true. But if any... But you just admitted to having some insecurities about how you look. And so if someone in chat said one of those things, it wouldn't affect you?

Hasn't yet. Or much. Really? Yeah. That doesn't make sense. I know it's confusing. Because until you experience it, until you experience it, Hafu, you're not going to understand.

I mean, like, it's just my experience, right? So part of what I do, so this is kind of weird, but you can fix an insecurity or what you can do is accept that you're insecure, which then gives you detachment from it. Yes. I have, I feel like I've accepted my insecurities on the way I look, because I feel like I don't affect me that much. I'm talking about something else. So you can accept your in, well, no, maybe not. Hold on. Because, um, I mean, so I just settled. I don't. I just settled. I don't. I'm done with that stuff. Yeah, see, there you.

That's kind of where I am. It feels better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I don't think, I don't think, and I certainly hope I've never made this claim or people haven't gotten this impression that I'm enlightened. I'm not perfect. I've just trained a lot.

And I do tend to think that I experience less suffering than the average person. I believe that. Right. So, like, generally speaking, like, even when things don't go well for me, like, sometimes I'll get upset, of course. Like, I know. that I was actually way more sort of spiritually adept until I had kids. And then I noticed all kinds of like attachments arising for a while. I tried to fight them for a while.

And then actually what I realized is that, you know what? I'm just going to be attached to my kids. And that's okay. And I sort of let go or accepted the fact that I was going to be attached and I would never become enlightened. So I sort of was like, okay, not going to be able to do that anymore. But anyway, I apologize if I gave you the impression that I was purported. perfect in in because I'm really not I really I remember when I asked you I was like wait you have no

insecurities and they're like no I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure I didn't say I had no insecurities but maybe I misspoke I'm a crazy chat I'm a crazy I mean this is being streamed on Twitch so people can go back and yeah no people are saying you did say it people said he did say it he's gaslighting you okay so he did I remember that you're not crazy So, okay, I misspoke. No, no, no, you're all good. I apologize. I apologize now, so I'm...

No, that's... Consider me checkmated. No, no, no, it's all good. Because I was like, basically, I think things like that, like, you're right, I'm not perfectly happy with how I look, but is that necessarily a bad thing? I feel like that's not, that's like a human thing. Yeah, sure, but that's why, you know,

enlightenment is not human. Okay. So is it, do a lot of people suffer with it? Is it acceptable? Absolutely. But I think that, you know, I personally believe that you should strive for as much happiness as you can in this life. Yes. And I do. I have a lot of happiness. Yeah. So, and I think, but it's trying to get. So let me, let me just say, so when you owned your insecurities and you felt that embarrassment, the somscar got a little bit smaller. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I was. was so insecure with how I looked when I was younger to the point where I remember vividly, like my high school boyfriend came over unannounced. I didn't have makeup on and had glasses. I got Lysick. I had glasses. I had no makeup on and he rung the doorbell and I opened it and I slammed it in his face because I thought he was going to break up with me as soon as he saw me because no one could ever love me how I was. I remember having that exact thought. And then he actually

helped a lot because after he was like, what, you looked fine. And I was like, huh? So that helped a lot. It's like a very vivid memory. Yeah, it sounds like you've grown immensely, Hufu. Yeah, I think I have. I think I'm a really logical person and I treat myself and my own problems the way I treat games. And like I said, I fucking deserve my gaming success because I'm fucking good at them. Okay, I mean, going back to like, when I was saying like the systematic thing, like, I don't know, I always bring this example up because it's a very jarring one that I think people can understand.

So when I was 17, I was a pro-ow player, and there was a team that qualified on the tournament realm called Gunna Rape Hafu at Reginals. And they qualified and nothing was done. about their team name. And, you know, that was kind of the attitude of the gaming culture at the time. And so, like, when you look at that, how are you supposed to just be okay with that? So let me ask you something. As you share this story, do you, so like, as we've talked about particular subjects,

there have been little volcanoes or big volcanoes that have erupted, right? do you notice any eruption as you share this story? A tiny one. I can feel a little quiver here. Yeah. Yeah. So when you say, okay, so like, let me ask you this. If we look at the size of the story and the size of what you're talking about in the outside world, that is gigantic.

Mm-hmm. Right? It's huge. That's fucking insane. Mm-hmm. It's unjust, it's terrible. Yeah. Why is there not a volcanic eruption in you?

Because things have gotten better and people are more aware of this kind of attitude. And it used to be kind of like, the attitude back then was, it's expected of you to just suck it up. Like, why are you even complaining? That kind of thing. It was like very normalized. And so that's what I did. Okay. So, so.

No one ever spoke up against it. including myself or my teammates or anyone at Blizzard, you know. So what I'm hearing is that the world has changed and that's why this story doesn't hurt more to tell. It's getting better. It gives me hope. I didn't have hope back then and I have hope that things will continuously get better. Okay. So is hope inside the house or outside the house? It's inside, I think. Okay. So your question was how are you supposed to be okay with it, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think like how are you?

If someone goes through that, like, how are you supposed to be like, that shouldn't affect you, right? No, hold on. Hold on. Yeah, but I think you have the answer. I don't actually have the answer. You have the answer. So let's just map this out. So you're saying, how are you supposed to be okay with it? And my answer to your question is how are you so okay with it? Because remember, that's a gigantic thing outside of your house. But you having lived through that do not have a volcanic eruption. You are relatively speaking at people. peace with it. You're relatively speaking. You have a hope. The inside of your house is good, despite something so god-awful happening on the outside of the world. So how can you have such a gigantic, terrible thing as going to a pro tournament and having a team name that is denigrating, offensive, and threatening to you? And you're just sitting here on stream talking about it. Um, because when it's ancient, too, like I said, I think, um, I think the gaming community as a whole has grown a lot since then. The industry has grown a lot since then.

Yeah, so I think the reason you're okay with it has nothing to do with that. Really? Yes. You're leaving one important person out in terms of growth and change. Gaming industry, that's not going to do anything. to your suffering. What are you leaving out? I'm part of the gaming industry and it makes, it gives me hope that, you know, like, I think

in another 10, 20 years, like, it's just gradually getting better. This is from a decade, more than a decade ago. So I think hope is reasonable, but I still think you asked me the question, how are you supposed to be okay with it? And I think the same, how are you okay with it? I think it's because you've grown as a person. Because you've developed hope. Hope is inside the house.

That's how you got to be okay. with it. So my whole point here, Hafu, is that there's a line between the outside world and the inside world and you're saying how are you supposed to be okay on the inside of your house when the capital building is on fire in Washington, D.C. And that has to do with you.

How the fuck are you not so traumatized that you quit Twitch entirely or quit programming forever when there was a team that showed up in the regional qualifiers that's name was we're going to rape you? How are you able to do that? I don't think Twitch gets credit for that.

I don't think the gaming community gets credit for that. I think you get credit for it. Like I said, there's no other option. The option is to... Like, I still choose to be here. I still choose to be in this world. That's how you do it. Yeah, that's the only way.

It's like, you can't do anything because these things exist. They happen. And it's like, the only way is to accept, like, you know, to be okay with it. That's the only way. Or else I would have had to quit, right? Like, what else could I do? That's what I'm saying. So you're saying that you, like, you're asking,

how are you learning to be okay with it? And I think you got halfway there, right? Like, you grew as a person. Like, my, I feel like, I don't know if it sounds to me like you're arguing with me, but I feel like we're both saying the same damn thing. Maybe. Like, because I, everything you're saying doesn't feel to me like it's a point against what I'm saying. I feel like it's a point to support what I'm saying.

Because if you really look at it analytically, a huge stressor from the outside should correlate with a large emotional response on the inside. But if we look at you scientifically, what we see is there are gigantic stressors on the outside that lead to tiny little eruptions, like a slight quiver in your throat. And there are relatively benign questions, like when did you learn how to say you shouldn't do that to yourself, that lead to huge emotional eruptions. Ergo, minor stressors lead to large things on the inside, and big stressors lead to small things on the inside. Therefore, we have to decide. This is one instance, right? This is one

instance. And I don't have to think about it every day. Whereas the other thing is something to do with like chat, which I had to deal with on a daily basis. So that sumscar like snowballed like crazy. So that's, I think that's why it's like a similar vein, but it's not like I had that happened to me every day. This is one instance that happened. And the other one is like on a daily every single day I'm experiencing this, whether I'm on stream or off stream. So what I take away from that is the size of the stressors, I'm misnaming. Right? So like there's getting, there's getting bitten by a lion once in your life. And then there's getting bitten by a dog every fucking day. One, the dog is going to be far

more traumatized. I completely. Yes. So I think that's why. Yeah. Well, no, so, so I still think though, that I see what you're saying, and so I concede that point if we're arguing something, but I still think that that... Doesn't have to be an argument. What I'm... What I still think is fundamental here is that there is some amount of something you can do when something crosses the threshold between the outside world in your house. Yes.

And when you ask, how are you okay with it? You have to study that thing. Right? So, like, I don't get to choose what. life throws my way, but I get to choose how I react to it. Yes. That's how you learn to be okay with it. It's these issues of acceptance because like think about 17 year old you and how accepting

you were of your appearance and think about 29 year old you and how accepting you are of your appearance. I don't think the outside world, and in this case the outside world, your body, has changed drastically between 17 and 29. Okay. Right? But you, your attitude. towards it, you have become more okay.

Just imagine talking to 17-year-old you and how confused 17-year-old, if you told 17-year-old you, if you went back in time, and you told 17-year-old you was like, I'm ugly, like, no one can ever see me like this. And you said, actually, you're going to be like relatively okay

with your appearance. You're never going to look perfect, but you're going to feel confident in the way you're look. And then 17-year-old you would ask you the same fucking question you're asking me. That's true. Yeah, that makes sense.

So you're saying I have to tackle it in the same way. So think about why is it effective? me so much and like, hmm. You're... These things I'm not, I'm not accept. I don't think I can get my mind to accept those things.

Sure, well, but... I don't think it's like a fair thing to accept. Yeah, okay. So, so it's not only to do what you've done so far, because I think what you've done so far is quite amazing, but there are other methods that you just haven't learned yet. Right? So you've managed to increase

your acceptance from 17 to 29 about your appearance. So you've learned to be okay with something that you one day thought you would never be okay with without something outside of your house changing. My point is that the change happens on the inside. It doesn't happen on the outside. As far as I know, you didn't get plastic surgery. I mean, maybe you did. I don't have to answer it. So just for clarity, like nothing has objectively changed, but you have changed. And all I'm saying to you is that even when it comes to your insecurity about whatever the fuck it is, I mean, we can dig into it if you want to. That too can change.

You can come to accept it, and you can feel more peace like you do now about your appearance compared to where you were 17 years ago. That's the process of growth. Yes. I'm trying to think, and I'm still kind of fighting you on. Just push. I know.

I know you're pushing. Just push. Just push. Okay. So you think that because I have, not like an eruption, but just because I get annoyed, by certain comments

that those comments actually affect me. Okay. So, a comment like, what annoyed. I don't want to say it because I'm they going to say it. See,

there's the Sumskart, right? You see that? Well, yes. Have you seen Twitch chat? You tell them not to do something. What are they going to do? They're going to do it. Chat, no one spanned Kappa.

No one spam it. And now they'll spam it. What? bothers you, Hafu, if I turn out to be right? What bothers you about that? Why do you have trouble? It doesn't bother me. I think it does. It's more so like, no, it doesn't bother me.

It's more so like, I'm trying to, okay, I'm trying to think of something. I can't think of something. But let's say, someone is just, someone is just hate watching and just very negative. Actually, it's really cool on Twitch. you can look at someone's chat messages, right? And sometimes you see someone, like I see something in chat and sometimes I'm annoyed. I've lost a game, right?

I've lost a game. I'm in a bad state of mind because I'm salty. And I see something criticizing the way I play, and I click his messages, and I scroll through, and every single out of the 200 messages they've wrote is negative. In one way or another,

every single message is meant to tear me down. Am I justified in being a knowing? justified absolutely but you're suggesting the best way I'd deal with it is to be at No you're saying it's two different things right bro hold on a second this is where the money is okay why do you click on their name well I want to see if I'm being

unreasonable because if they're just a normal person you want to see if you're being unreasonable What's going on in your mind at that moment? Maybe I'm being a salty bitch. I have to see if it's me being salty or not. No, it's not you being salty. The reason you look is because maybe they're right. Yeah, because you're salt.

I'm salty in the moment. I'm not in the moment, though. So this is really important, okay? This is really, really important. Why do we go fishing for things that hurt us? right? I'll give you an example. So like let's say I get dumped by my girlfriend. I'm feeling bad about myself. You said you're feeling salty. And then what do I go do when I'm feeling bad about myself at two in the morning after being dumped? I got dumped a month ago. I log on to Instagram or Facebook or whatever and I go look at pictures. I see one picture of my ex with another dude. And then I click on it and I look at all the pictures and I just torture myself. I go looking for that hurt. Why the fuck do we do that as human beings? I don't know.

That's a good question. That's relatable. Absolutely, because that's what you're doing on Twitch chat. Well, I need to feel justified when I ban their ass. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you need to feel all kinds of, you need to feel validated. When you click on that, you feel validated, right? And I'll tell you, so for the dude who looks at pictures of his girlfriend, he tells himself,

I'm a good person, but inside he feels unlovable. And every single picture that he looks at of another human, like another dude with his girlfriend, he's like, fuck, I knew I was unlovable. I knew I was unlovable. I knew I was unlovable. It's validating. That's why we torture ourselves because it's not telling yourself,

because here's the option, right? So in that moment when I see my ex-girlfriend with another dude, I tell myself, oh, there are other fish in the sea. You should let her go, man. it's no big deal. You're a good looking guy and you're like, fuck you. That's invalidating. I'm going to go and torture myself because it's how I feel and I want the world to see how I feel.

I don't want to be alone with those feelings anymore. Okay. Even if it hurts. Sure. So you're saying every time I get annoyed at a comment, it's my insecurities that they have said something that I think is true? Is that true though? Let's say someone calls me. Okay.

Let's just say someone comes in and says something racist to me. Okay. And I get annoyed and I ban them. Is that an insecurity thing? I don't think so. Could be. So there's an extreme way to take this, Hafu, and there's a practical way to take this.

Yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to understand because I'm trying to think. I ban a lot of people. So let me, let me, let me try to share with you a couple of things. Because I think the more philosophical and theoretical this gets, I think the less useful it is. Okay? So you can play that game if you want to, but here's what I would tell you. I think that you are an awesome person.

It's clear to me you've grown a lot. I didn't really know who you were back then, but you clearly come across as someone who is confident in yourself and has grown immensely and has suffered. You have the mark of past suffering on you. Yes. I see that very clearly. You've gotten to where you are. You seem happy. engaged, things are fantastic. You sort of talk about being blunt and maybe some other people

think you should change that and you tell yourself maybe you should change that, but you're actually completely fine with being blunt. I am fine of being blunt. I know. I can tell. So like, but there's that part of you that's, but like you see that too is like where you say, oh, maybe I shouldn't be that way, but you're actually really validating and accepting of yourself there, even though that's contrary to the should, but that's another separate point. I'm with you. So right? So now here's what I'm proposing to you. It's something for you to pick up. up and play with if you want to. Okay.

Despite all of your growth, despite all of this stuff, you're not perfectly happy. No. Right? No one is ever perfectly happy. Unless you're enlightened. Yep. There you go.

Okay. So here's what I perceive in you. Is that there is still a sum scar that is actually quite big, which doesn't get triggered very much because you don't see many dogs on the street anymore. Okay. but you're still carrying it around. Yes. And in my experience, just like you were carrying around a lot of insecurity when you were 17,

you're not carrying that shit around anymore. And it feels good. It lets you be happy. And you say, but this isn't that big of a deal because it doesn't affect me every day. I get that. But I'm telling you, hafu, generally speaking, the closer you get to the top, the harder it is to rise. It's just like climbing Mount Everest. It's just like the wow ladder.

You can take whatever. It's a universal principle of life. True, true, true, true. I agree. And so what I'm offering you, by offering, I mean, I'm proposing a hypothesis that I think you would be happier. And maybe this is what you're running up again. I think you would be happier if you let this go to.

That you shouldn't walk around. But shouldn't, fuck. That there is a possibility to walk around without the chip on your shoulder. Yes. And how would you start trying to. to clear that slum score. So I think you feel the emotions in the present is the short answer. Right.

So I didn't do this with you today because I had a feeling this would be way more fun. And I'm glad that we'd had this discussion. But like basically when you had started crying, if I'd asked you more questions about it, what we would have done is lift up the rug and start sweeping stuff out. Right? We would like, we would validate you. We would get you to listen. And you would feel like you'd start processing those emotions.

you'd start digesting it. Because when we sit with an emotion is when we digest it. And this is the difference because like when you were 17 and someone said something hurtful about your appearance, one comment would be so overwhelming. You'd distract yourself from it. You'd sweep it under the rug, whatever, and it would hurt you. Whereas now what happens is someone says something to you. There are continual insults.

People are attacking you all the time. But as you grow up and as your Buddha, which is a part of your mind that helps you digest emotions, grows more robust. you can process things for yourself so that they never become sumscars. So when my five-year-old gets bit by a dog, she's like terrified of dogs and she has a phobia of dogs. When I get bit by a dog, I'm like, fuck, that was still really scary. The first, second of the emotion is exactly the same.

But then I walk myself through it. I hold my hand and I say, wow, I'll look like, that was dumb. Like, are you okay? Like, oh, shit, that was scary. Woo! Maybe you should be more careful next time. But I'm like, or then that it doesn't form a sumscar. But if what I tell myself afterwards, how are you so fucking stupid?

Like, what's wrong with you? You dumbass? That'll form a somerskart. You see that? Emotional digestion. Evoking the feelings and sitting with them. When you use the term psychoanalyze, I think what you did is work through stuff. You didn't analyze it.

You worked through it. There's a big difference. That's true. You felt those feelings. You sat with those feelings and you were your own therapist. So all you have to do is just, invoke them. And this is where, I know we've been at this for a while, and you say, I don't want to. Like, what I'm really getting from you is not in a logical resistance. And I genuinely think

you're open-minded and trying to understand. What I'm getting from you is, I don't want to. Yeah, that's true. Part of it is I really don't want to because... Yep. And that's not logical, right? Because, so you can ask me as many questions about scenarios as you want to, that resistance is going to be there. Yeah. You can ask whatever you want to. You can checkmate as much, me as much as you want to, I can checkmate you as much as I want to. It's not going to get anywhere because hafu, you don't want to. That's cool. Every time we ban emotionally because they've triggered a subscar.

I don't, you say ban emotionally? Yeah, yeah. I mean, saying like, let's say someone comes in and says something that triggers your sunscar, we ban them. I don't think so. So I think we ban people for reasons that are not emotional, right? Okay. So like action and somers are different.

Like you can act without a somsar being active in your mind. You can ban someone because you can, like, it doesn't hurt you, but you're like, this fucker's got to get banned. True. There's a certain like chillness to it, right? That is detachment. That is vayragia. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

If someone says something racist, I don't personally get affected by it. like it doesn't, I don't feel like, I don't feel anything. And yet your motivation to act is still very strong. Yes. This is where people get confused because they think, how can you be motivated to act and still be detached? Because most of us get motivated by our fucking subscars. And what I'm telling you is that's what leads to a train wreck of a life. Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense. So whenever I find myself getting... triggered the right word? Yep, absolutely. Okay. Whenever I find myself getting triggered, I need to break down why I feel triggered. Sure.

Yeah, or you can get someone to help you with that. Because like, for example, like there's an, like, so let me ask you something, Hafu. I mean, I don't think we have time to get into this because I can't keep doing this. I'm running out MP at this point. Okay. But why don't you want to?

It's scary. There it is. Yeah. I mean, I know. I know. I don't want to. So you can ask me as many questions as you want to, it's not going to get anywhere.

So it should be more like every time I have an emotional response, then I should figure out why I'm getting that emotional response. So you said every time I have emotional response, I should figure out why I'm getting that response. I disagree. I'd say do it once a week. Let yourself live the other six days of the week.

Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. I will keep that in mind that it's the thing, yeah. So just to give you an example, if I wanted to get you to want to, the next question I would ask would be, what are you scared of? Right? Because there's a somscar.

There's something you're afraid of. That's a fear. That's something that's coming up. And then we would work through why you don't want to. And as we emotionally digest that, then you'll be okay doing the next one. Well, part of it is we're doing this live on stream. A lot of the trauma is from stream. It's from chat.

So you want me to talk to do something, kind of give the ammo to the thing that traumatized me in the first place. So that is why I'm scared of it, you know? Okay, sure. Like for the longest time, I would stay in my own bubble on Twitch. I won a global e-vote many years ago. I chose not to ever cash it in because I would be scared. scared that if I did do a picture of myself, then it would be used in a negative way.

Like that kind of thing, right? I would very much stick to my own bubble. It was only in the last two years that I have felt comfortable collaborating with other people and felt comfortable. Ha-Fu, are you hearing me say that I want to get into that with you? Yeah. Oh, no. Yes, I know. Well, you're saying that. No, I'm saying I don't want to. That, okay, okay. Right. Because I'm explaining why, because I feel like I know why I don't want to get them to. I understand.

There's a reason why I didn't push when the sumscar came up, right? So like for whatever reason, I've felt really, really a lot of resistance from you to explore emotionally. So we've just let that shit slide. Like, that's okay. Okay. I'm just sharing with you intellectually how that would look. Yes. Okay.

Right. A lot of what you have said has made a lot of sense. and it is pretty enlightening. Like certain comments affect me in a different way, even if it's negative. So that's what I didn't understand, but now I do. Like someone calling me a poo-poo head, I might not like it, but it's not going to like make me, I don't know.

Good. So now this is very cool because you've stumbled upon another, you're brilliant. Okay, so you've stumbled upon another really important principle, which is pain and pleasure is outside of the axis of suffering and contentment. What? Sorry, that went over my head.

So, you can still continue to feel pain and pleasure if you are detached. Oh, okay. So pain and pleasure are not on the same axis as attachment and detachment. So you can still feel angry, you can still get upset about stuff,

but you don't suffer. It's kind of hard to describe, but like you said, there are two things that can annoy you, but the quality of the annoyance is different. Yes. Right? One is deeper and one's shot like a surface level.

Yep. So what the yogis realized is that there's actually two things. They're not the same. Mm-hmm. One is on the axis of pain and pleasure, which you can never get free of. That's always going to happen. And then the second is the axis of attachment and detachment

or suffering and contentment. You know, so like I'd say that if I have to go get a COVID test and someone sticks a swab like all the way up into my cranium. Painful, yes. It's painful, but I'm not going to suffer. It's like. Yes. So I think you've stumbled upon that.

I think you're very, it's impressive, how nuanced you are with understanding your own experiences. And so I think you're more, I mean, you're not wrong about really anything you've said today. I just think that there's like another step. Yeah, definitely. Cool. Questions? I think I understand your point. I think I was, the thing I was resistant about that I was challenging about, I think I

understand a lot better. Just that you can, you're allowed to be annoyed and you're allowed to act on things, but it's different than suffering. And suffering is like when you internalize it, right? It's like this, um... Can I ask you when you became less resistant? You mean during this conversation? Yeah.

Oh, I just didn't understand. understand the concept because before I was like, but there are people who are just out there to be rude to you, who exist to be rude. And I thought that your argument was that it doesn't matter. Like you should, uh, like, now I understand that you're saying ban their ass. They're being dumb and it's okay to ban them without actually suffering from it. So when in the course of the conversation, did you become more accepting of what I was saying? It wasn't that I'm being accepting. It's more of like understanding what you're saying. When did you understand what I was saying? Very recently. Was it before or after we talked about your resistance?

After. Okay. So I was resisting because I genuinely didn't understand. And now that I've understood it, it's different. And now I can. So there's a differential diagnosis there, which is that genuine understanding became more. more possible once your resistance lowered.

That's fair. So what I would even, I'm not sure, but I would say that there's a decent possibility that processing your resistance, even for a few minutes, because I was bouncing off, right? I was saying the same shit for an hour and a half, and it kept bouncing off. And now suddenly you're like, oh, like now I understand what you're, like, what the, what? It's like the eighth time was a charm? I didn't understand it. I'm not going to just accept what you say.

I know, I know you're not, but what I'm saying is that, like, I think it's a really good illustration of how understanding and resistance are tied. And when we address the resistance explicitly and sort of talk about that and notice that, then the understanding comes more easily. Yes, I agree. Okay. I'm not sure, but, you know, maybe. No, I do agree.

I do agree. I think it's, I was very skeptical. skeptical about what you're saying, so I'd keep challenging it instead of trying to just understand it. And then when I started just trying to understand it, I could understand it. Okay.

So you're right. You're right. That's not what I'm saying, but I think it's... No, no, no, no, I know, I know. But I'm just saying that you're right, that, like, as soon as I stopped just trying to, yeah, refute your points. Yep.

So that, too, is that inside the house or outside the house? Inside the house. Yep. A lot of stuff is inside the house, hafu. Yeah. Okay. Do you meditate? No.

Want to learn how to meditate? Isn't it about thinking about nothing? It's more like, what is it? What's the app? There's an app with the British guy. I don't know. Meditation app. Anyone know?

Headspace, there we go. See? They knew. Headspace. and it's like you think you think about your breathing and you think about like it's like in yoga they do this but you think about like where your body is like where your foot what your foot is experiencing and you like focus on that stuff I can't meditate I've tried it I know that it's very good but the way that I fall asleep now is I put on audible and then I focus on that and then that puts me to sleep in 10 minutes because then instead of like

thinking about my problems or anxieties in the day, I think about something that has nothing to do with me, and then I fall asleep. So it's kind of like meditation, I think, in a way. Okay. So you shared a lot. Thank you very much. You didn't answer my question. Oh, I didn't. No, I don't think I know how to actually meditate. That's not what I asked. I asked, do you want to meditate? Oh. Sorry, I said, do you know how to meditate? Unless maybe I said

Do you know how to meditate? Maybe we can go back I was maybe I misspoke there too Oh But here's my question now Do you want to meditate? Do you want to meditate? Today now

Okay I'm down I'll ask again I think you answered at that time But I want an honest answer Do you want to meditate? Not particularly but I don't I'm not against it

So I'm saying sure Because yeah Yeah. Okay. So let's think about that, okay? Okay. So if you don't want to, what are we going to do? We don't have to. Oh, I don't care. I'm done for whatever. I'm trying to be as open as possible. Am I open or am I hard to work with? Be honest. Uh-oh. I would say you're easy to work with and you're closed. Oh.

Okay, interesting. I don't think you're very open. Really? No. Oh, that's the first time I've heard that. I've always seen myself as super open. But I'm rigid. That's interesting.

I like that. That's something that I didn't know about myself. Right? I thought it was super open. I think you come across as open. But like, so you're open, you're open with your manner. You're open with your dialogue, but you're closed in your mind. Like, you're, I'm going to fucking, so they're like, like, people aren't going to, people aren't going to tell you you're wrong.

Why not? Right. Like, you fucking know what you're talking about. I encourage people to tell me when they think I'm wrong. Yeah, I know. And I'm open to admitting when I'm wrong when I think I'm actually wrong. Yep. But this is the thing, right?

But I do have to think I'm wrong, yes. Yeah, there. See? Let's just look at like relationship dynamics for a moment. right? So like this is going to cause problems because like sometimes your partner potentially could think that you're wrong. And if you don't agree with them, it's going to cause problems. But they have their own perspective. David and I, he's the same way. If he doesn't think he's wrong, he also won't back down. So we've had that once. So what I, what I really think about closeness is like what real openness is is acknowledging that even if you don't think you're wrong, that you could be wrong. Right? Because you're not going to be right all the time. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I think I'm still deciding about, so, you know, sniffing a fair amount of resistance off of you about meditation, whether it's a good idea to try to teach you or not. Right?

I will be open to it. Okay. Okay. So then let's teach you something. Now the question is what to teach you. I'm rigid. I'm trying to think. I don't think that necessarily because I don't agree with something that I think I'm right.

It's just I also don't think I'm wrong. Like I know, like logically, I know that cycle, like, so I think open and closed is like too unsophisticated of language. Here's what I'd say about you. I'd say from a five-factor personality assessment, I would imagine you to be a high openness, low agreeableness. Okay, that's fine. Right? So I think you're open to new experiences, you're exploratory and you're willing to hear people out. But you're not really flexible with your.

opinions. It takes a lot to change your mind. Whereas like other people that are like, oh, cool, like, I'll go whichever way the wind is blowing and Hoffoo is like, uh-uh. Yeah. I, yes. That is, that's good. Right. So that's, open and closed is like unsophisticated. High openness, low agreeableness. Yeah. I'm the same way for what it's worth. Yeah, it's very accurate. People think I'm really, really open, but I'm really fucking judgmental in here. Oh, that's one thing that I really liked about myself

that I changed. Well, I really didn't like how judgmental I was. My inside, the voice in my head was so judgmental and so, like, mean. And then I would filter those mean thoughts. Like, why am I thinking this way? Why am I judging this way?

And I would always challenge myself. And now my thoughts are very pleasant until I'm PMSing and then I turn to the devil. That's the only time where my thoughts are rude. My thoughts are very nice. They're very pleasant because I cut out all the mean thoughts. But then hormones are a bitch.

Like, what are you going to do? That's not my fault. Yeah. That's not my fault. It's chemicals. Yeah. So let's think about meditation. So now I'm curious about what am I going to teach you?

Ah, I've got a good one. Okay. Okay. So we haven't done this in a little while, but so there are two kinds, a lot of different ways to slice up meditation. So what I'm going to do, Hafu, is give you a meditation technique. It may work for you, may not work for you. No big deal.

But when people say, you know, I'm not good at meditating, it generally means that they just haven't been given the right kind of technique for their mind. Okay. So you're someone who's like sort of skeptical, doesn't want to be told anything. You need to figure things out for yourself. And you're also very like introspective. So I'm going to give you like, oh. Okay. we're going to give you

what I would call an investigative technique. So what we're going to do, and by the way, I think listening to Audible is like a good example of meditation. I think you're actually a born meditator. You just have to be doing it. You have to be given the right kind of technique for your cognitive style. I want you to close your eyes and sit up straight. Twitch chat can do it too. Back should be straight, neck should be straight.

And I want you to take a breath through your nose. breathe in and out, and tell me where do you feel the breath? You mean like my own breath? Yep. Like where is it coming from inside or outside? Either. I mean, I can feel my breath on my hands. Okay.

I can feel like going in and out of my chest. Okay. So what does it feel like in your chest? Nothing. Okay. Can you feel something there? Not really other than my lungs is standing. Okay, so that's something, right? So you can feel your lungs expanding. So you feel a sensation there. Now, let me ask you something. Do you feel the breath? Do you feel only your lungs expanding or do you also feel the breath?

I feel my bra tightening when I inhale because my... Okay. So I want you to pay attention to your nose. Okay. Is there a breath there? I can feel it like through my nostrils. Okay. Coming out. And now I want you to follow it. See where it goes as you breathe. then? To my sinuses? Okay. Keep following. See where it goes. Follow it. Investigate.

And it goes in through my nostrils to my sinus and then it goes through my nostrils to my hands. Is that right? Help me understand. When you say it goes through your sinuses into your hands? Well, I can feel it because my nose is here. My hands are in my lap. Okay. So what I'm talking about is feeling the sensation on the inside. So what I'm hearing you say is the exhalation, you can feel on your hands. Okay. Is that correct?

Yes. But follow the inhalation. Pay attention to your throat. Okay. Can you feel the breath in your throat? Mm-hmm. My throat expands. Do you feel the expansion or do you feel the same quality that you feel in your nose and your sinuses?

What do you mean quality? So you're describing musculature. Right? When you say my chest is expanding, my throat is expanding. But I would imagine that the feeling of expansion in your physical body is different from what you feel in your sinuses. Is it? Okay. So follow, head up straight. Now follow the breath into your throat and see if you can differentiate between the musculature of the throat. and the sensation that you feel in your sinuses going back into your throat. I don't understand. Okay. So I think you're doing it fine, by the way.

So you notice a sensation of breath. You may notice the temperature of the breath. What is the temperature of the breath? Cold. Where do you feel the coldness in your body when you breathe in? How far does it go? goes to my sinuses. It's like almost uncomfortable. Okay. So you don't feel coldness in your throat?

Mm-mm. Okay. That's fine. So when you are doing this, so I want you to focus on your sinuses for a second, and you say it feels uncomfortable, right? So focus on that sensation of discomfort. It's like I eat too much wasabi. Okay. Okay. So now I'm going to give you a separate practice. I want you to catch the moment when inhalation becomes exhalation.

What about that moment? Have you found it? Tell me about it. It's like at the top of the thing. Okay. Everything stops for itself. Okay. So are you holding your breath?

Yes. for like a split. Good. So normally when you breathe in and you breathe out, you don't hold your breath, right? Mm-hmm. So I want you to stop holding your breath and find the moment in between inhalation and exhalation. Hmm? What am I looking for?

Just find the moment between inhalation and exhalation without holding your breath. I know. I found it. So what am I looking at? Okay. So if you can find it without, holding your breath, I want you to sit in that space. What? What do you mean sit in that space?

Okay. This is helpful. Let me think for a second. You can open your eyes. Oof. What? Oh, just, uh, I don't know. Close my eyes for a while.

Does the world look different? Yeah, but that's normal, right? I don't know. Does that usually happen when you close your eyes? No, it feels like everything's a lot more clear. Maybe you just meditated. So meditation is thinking about less, right? Kind of like decluttering your mind? No.

No? So it's not thinking at all. So focus and thought are two different things. Meditation is focused to the exclusion of thought. which is something you figured out with Audible because you focus the attention of your mind on an audiobook and then your mind shuts down and you fall asleep. Yes.

So what I actually don't think these are the right techniques for you. I think there are other techniques that are going to be better. But I think you did a good job and you can continue to use these techniques. So my thought was that if I tell you to do, I have to give your mind something because like I, I don't know how to put this, but when I tell you to find the in-between space, all of your attention is zoomed in on one thing. And you're not thinking about anything. You're like listening, right?

So like all of your attention is like concentrated into a point. Yes. It's like focusing on the experience. Yep. And so there's no thought there. Yeah. The thought was actually interrupting you because you were like, am I doing it right? That's a threat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So the more that you got away from that, so I would just, so sometimes for people like you, what I recommend is meditation that is a question instead of a practice. So I'm going to tell you, for example, that your breath travels further than your sinuses in your nose, right? And if you focus on it, you can feel it in your throat. That cool sensation that feels almost painful, which what the fuck?

Get their different day. But, you know, who knew that breathing clearly was painful? And so if you follow that coldness, it'll go into your throat. And if you follow it, see where it goes. Because I think for someone who's inquisitive and doesn't take, like, if I tell you to, you know, do something, you're going to be like, what the fuck am I doing this for? Yeah. Right.

So I have to give you something that's going to engage your mind and keep you curious. oddly enough, I think that your mind is actually very concrete. So when I ask you abstract questions, like sit in between the space between inhalation and exhalation, I know this sounds weird. Some people understand what the fuck I'm talking about, but you're like, what is that? I don't know what that. You know, which is totally fine. So, so, you know, if I get a chance to teach you a different technique of meditation, I'm going to have to adapt for that and do something very concrete. But they need to say audible is kind of like meditation.

Yep. It is. because what you're doing is you're focusing your mind. It's a dharan. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice. Yep. But I don't know if you, I don't know if Audible will give you the clarity of vision

and the crystal clearness of the world afterward. Yeah, who cares? I'm asleep. That's great. It's going to put you to sleep. It puts me right to sleep. So if you do these kinds of techniques, I would say, you know, try to explore and see what the fuck I mean when I say, sit in the space between inhalation and exhalation

without holding your breath. And if you spend a few minutes doing that a couple times a day, you can alternate between the two because I imagine you're going to get bored of one quickly. Why is meditation good? Because it gives us time outside of our mind. Why do we need that?

Because our mind is the source of our suffering. That's fair. See, sometimes ask super challenging, like, oh, like, what is the purpose of medicine? It's actually pretty simple. For rigid, concrete people like us, it's like that simple. Yeah, if you tell, because tell me why I need this. You go, like, watch some YouTube lecture on YouTube video and the, like, and you ask,

why should we meditate? Some guys are going to give you some fucking profound answer about inner peace. And it's like. That's how they make money. You need the video to be at least 10 minutes. No, yeah. It's just very simple. Spend time outside of your mind because the mind is the origin of all of your suffering.

Cool. Cool. Cool. Questions or thoughts before you wrap up? Good. This is good. I called that I was going to cry. I did cry.

But I feel good. And thank you for challenging me. Thank you for challenging me. I found that I'm rigid. That's not new to you, though. It is. Really? Well, rigid isn't the term I would use for myself.

But now you're right. Not agreeable. Yep. Yep. But I don't think it's more, it's not, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. It's not. I don't think it's a bad thing at all. Okay. Well, thanks a lot, Hafu. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad we finally got to do this. Yeah, likewise. And good luck with everything. Hopefully this has helped in some way. But if you have questions and stuff down the road, feel free to hit me up, okay?

Okay. All right. Take care. Bye, bye. Thank you.