HealthyGamerGG - Internet Conflict and Controversy Ft. LS

Episode Date: March 10, 2020

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So, L.S., let me ask you something. So actually, I'm going to ask chat. Okay, so one of the things that I want you guys to pay attention to, so we were talking about skill at conversation. So since we can't see L.S.'s most of his face, that's perfectly fine. So what I want chat to pay attention to is his eyes and facial expressions, right? So let's just try to pay attention to for a moment, not for a moment, but for the duration of the stream. Just see how much you guys can interpret around how L.S. is feeling and what he's doing. just through his eyes and eyebrows.

Okay? So let's just keep an eye out for that. All right. So tell me a little bit about how you've been doing. So I've tried the meditation thing a few times. Which meditation? The one that we did at the very end together last time. Which was what?

The sitting at the edge of the chair trying to rewind the day and everything. recollect a lot of stuff. And I have no doubt that it's my own mind doing it, but I just, I can't focus. And then it ends up actually exacerbating my anxiety. Or like I actually start thinking about other things that weren't presently in my mind. Sort of like how when you're asleep at night and maybe your brain just doesn't let you sleep. and so there was actually two occasions where I just had to stop. Okay.

This last week was really, really bad in the lull scene. There was a very dramatic thing that happened that was centered around me in some ways. So that was very stressful. Can you tell me about that? Basically, there's a there's an argument or a debate or I don't know what you would want to call it

over two items within League of Legends and it is there's a lot that surrounds it and the stuff that surrounds it's basically like you have to really go into the minutia of like items and spots.

So there's two items in Legal Legends. There's an item called Leandro's Tourman, and there's another item called Morale and Amicomicon. And one of the items, the real legwork of the item comes from one of the recipe items. So you play Dota, so I imagine maybe there's items. So imagine that there's an item that gives you 15 magic penetration and 25 ability points.

Okay. And that item only costs $1,600. Okay. So when you upgrade it, you have to spend $1,400 more dollars, and all that you get is 50 more ability points. I'm sorry, it gives you 20 ability points, 15 magic penetration. And when you upgrade it, you spend 1,400 more abilities, points, 850 of which is a component item that goes into many, many other items.

Okay. And all that you get is an extra 100 HP, 50 ability points, and then a passive called grievous wounds, which reduces healing by 40%. Okay. So one of the things that I've been, I don't know if you want to call it like preaching or I've been very outspoken about for the last year and a half. And I've been very vocal on Twitter and in videos and in casts is that the original item, the orb, for $1,600, is really, really good.

But spending the $1,400 to purchase the next item is oftentimes not ideal. Okay. Because typically when you've completed your first item and then you're going into your second item, the game at that period enters into these like lull states where it starts to get slower everything's a lot more controlled you only tend to fight around neutral objectives when they're up and the game pacing is a lot different

so I'm one of the nicknames that people use like as a play on my name there's even some people in your chat with it's like Leondri's salesman because the other item is called Leandre's Torment And so I've been a very big advocate Is called Leondri's torment Of another item, yeah, in the game And I'm a really big advocate that

The orb is really, really good Because if you have that orb as well as another item You can almost deal true damage to certain champions in the game Okay But the Morella Anamicon item in itself is very awkward to sort of evaluate because it applies a debuff for 2.5 seconds, and it only reduces healing by 40%. And the amount of gold that you're dumping into it is very awkward to evaluate because

healing is weird in itself. There's active healing, which means that a champion has to be hitting you in order to receive benefit from their healing. Okay. But then in addition to that, you can't always sort of kind of control if the debuff is on them when they get their heel. Just the nature of team bites. Sure.

So there's going to be some, there's going to be some variance in if you actually get a kick out of the debuff. The other thing, though, is the other item, Leandre's torment is 3,100 gold. So there's another item called Voidstaff, which is 2,600. And then there's another item, Robidon's death cap, which really makes your ability points, very big. And my argument is that oftentimes when players are building Oblivion orb, the game is at a very stable state oftentimes. And because they're professional players and not even professional players, Solo queue, you can do it as well. There's no reason to allocate 1400 gold for this very small bump in power, unless something is absolutely necessary.

It's a lot better to take the 850 gold out of the 1400 and allocate. allocate it into another item. Okay. And then factoring in average assumed gold per minute, you only end up being a couple of minutes away from another major item completion that would then give you a much bigger boost. Power spike. Because the real, right, a much bigger power spike, like Leandro Stormen or Death Cap or Voidstaff or something like that. And the argument gets very twisted and misconstrued, and a lot of people don't entertain all the variables and all this other stuff, and they'll ultimately label it at a rudimentary level as Morello versus Leondri. But that's not what the argument ever was. It was always oblivion orb sitting on it,

because that's where the real power comes from the item. Because the upgraded thing doesn't really give you all that much. It gives you grievous wounds, a little bit of ability power, an HP. And you can argue that the HP is negligible on a mage. Okay. You can make that argument. So what's the source of like conflict or scandal? Um, so the scandal is that myself and many other analysts, uh, or people inside of the scene, but I, I'm the figurehead of, uh, this argument or this, uh, this topic. Um, basically there was, There was a video made by another peer or colleague. I don't know how I would describe it.

Basically, someone that's in the same exact line of work as me, just in a different region. Okay. And they made a video where I was the thumbnail of the video. So my face, literally my face, a greater than sign for the Morello versus Leandris. The title of the video is debunking Morell. Morello versus Leondries. So I'm basically being used as a figurehead. Throughout the course of the video, I'm the only analyst referenced.

I'm the only analyst whose name appears in the video. I'm the only analyst who has other mentions in the video. Video is 27 minutes long. There's a lot of stuff that is also omitted from the video. Like, to me, it feels like a very giant straw man because there's so many things that are omitted from the arguments. I'm on air so often that I explain myself ad nauseum to so many different people, but there's no compiled area of such an argument.

So there's a 24-minute long video showcasing examples where Morello is better than Leondries in a vacuum. But that was never the argument in the first place. So it feels like this is 24 minutes of attacking something that just didn't exist in the first place. but presenting it as such. And that made me feel really bad. In what way? Then there was a three-minute ending where I got very angry on stream.

Maybe you could even watch the clip if you want, I don't know. I got very angry and I said some pretty explicit stuff about, again, another person within the same line of work in another region. And when that stream had ended, I had actually felt really bad after blowing up. I deleted the stream, the clips, etc. And I thought to myself, you know, I was feeling really stressed and tilted in the moment. And it was during one of my LCS co-streams, that's

like permission that Riot Games grants to certain individuals that allows them to actually stream the premier tournament, the LCS. So in the middle of one of my streams, I got linked a donation. I had a lot of my chat flaming me, saying that I got flamed on an official European broadcast. So I think to myself, what the hell is this? So I watched the clip on stream. I see stuff that, I believe I talked about this actually with you last time,

but this is before the blowup in the community happened. I said, what, you know, I felt really awkward listening to something that was said and I felt like it was being misconstrued. And then because my chat is flaming me, and I received other stuff about this from other mediums, like on Twitter and stuff, it felt really bad. So I reacted very poorly inside of the moment. So what, in what way do you, so you've used the phrase, feel bad a couple of times. In what way do you feel bad? I feel bad, knowing that that's not how I would want to,

ever really conduct myself. And then I know that if someone spoke about me in a similar manner like that, it would feel bad as well. Even if I can take it or I can, like, if the person is, is like accurate maybe in their assessment or what they're saying, maybe it hurts less. But it's just not good for anyone. And it shouldn't have to be that way. and it shouldn't get to that point.

And then also, I feel regret that I didn't manage it. I didn't manage my stress in the moment better, as well as my frustration, like pent up frustration. Okay. Yeah. So let me ask you this. Okay. So some of this is, actually, Alice, can you hold on a second?

I think I may have just figured out what I need to do to fix this. my video. Sorry for that. Yeah, it's okay. Shit. Okay, I'm not going to touch anything. Okay, I'm going to just leave it off. Okay.

So, so one is that, so it sounds like you felt bad and you felt bad because you were, you didn't represent yourself in a way that you're happy with. right right so what does it feel like to what does it feel like to be strongmaned on the internet um it well i know that the last three like few days i contemplated what the fuck am i even doing um in the sense that it doesn't what does that mean um i was just on air right so much the last uh the last month and a half

for instance. And as much as I was on air, as much as I had conversations with either professional players or other people on air, because it's not compact and available in one small, like, video or something like that, it's spread out throughout, you know, hours upon hours upon hours of streams and castings. And to see that something can just be. picked in pride and straw man and then have that actually impact you in a very negative way, potentially, is very, I don't know. I remember sitting there. I remember thinking to myself,

I'm going to blow up. I was streaming. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, one second. So before you start thinking about what your reaction was, What is the feeling to being straw man on the internet? What is that? It feels surreal. There can be so much that just, it's really weird. It's not that it can't be refuted or shown as such. It's that it takes a lot of effort to do it.

And it just, it's so fucking insane to me, how easy it is it is to do it. But it's also, it's very angering. the nature of it. Like how, how... I don't know, man. It pisses you off. It sickenes me in a way. Because I attribute it with dishonesty.

And I attribute it to... I attribute it to like false journalism, if you know what I mean? When someone just wants to get a piece out to be the first one, but they don't care about the accuracy. Yep. And I remember I did that to someone once.

There was actually, there was a, there was a, there was a thing on Reddit in 2016. I falsely, I don't know, I did math incorrectly on a situation. And even though it didn't detract from the original argument in context, the end video that I put out and produced was inaccurate and ultimately disingenuous. and it was it was just bad to do and I remember reflecting on that and thinking that any time that I'm really going to get into the nitty gritties or something

or really die on top of a hill I need to make sure that I've looked at a lot more angles and understood more Ellis why is it important to convince people on the internet that you're right not let's talk about something that Twitch chat can relate to Right? Like, let's just think about this.

Because that's what we're talking about. We're talking about like someone else out there who's being unjust. That's what I'm sensing from you, that there's a sense of injustice and unfairness. And also that it's so easy to tear down, it's so much easier to attack your position than it is to like defend it. Yes. It's a lot easier. And it's a lot easier. also feels really bad if I feel like, um, I, I feel like I'm always on a, is it a tightrope? Catwalk. I'm not sure. Uh, the thing that you have to.

No, no, no, no. Tightrope. The thing that you have to walk. Okay. Tightrope, right? What, but help me understand. Catwalk? I'm not sure what your analogy refers to because like, I don't know what you're about to say.

So you got to tell me what. I feel like I have to be on point. Okay. Or I have to always be alert. Okay. What happens if you're not alert? What happens if you're not alert? I feel like, so for instance, this last video, it came out, I woke up 10 hours into it being out.

Right? I feel like if I'm alert or I'm on standby for certain things, I can, I can, uh, better squash any misunderstandings or whatever, a lot easier. But if it's allowed to fester and grow before response is able to, you know, occur, then it potentially does a lot of damage.

Okay. That isn't able to be... What kind of damage does it do? I think it can potentially damage credibility, I think it can damage perception, which attributes to credibility. I think that it can alter, I think it can even alter views of how much, would you say integrity is a part of credibility? I think that there are. Sure, I think you're very concerned about your integrity in the community.

Yes. Yes. So, Alice, can I just think for a second? Yep. Give me a second, okay? Yep. Okay. So I'm struggling a little bit to try to, I want to, so I think what you're going through is actually quite relatable and can be generalized and maybe more applicable to chat. So I'm going to start talking about things in a slightly more abstract sense. Okay. So by abstract, I'm going to generalize it away from you specifically. But we can certainly. talk about you. So the first question, LS, is when we consider a situation that affects you in some way, there's sort of a personal effect, and then there's actually like an external

consequence, right? So the first thing we have to understand is that like this situation is affecting you internally and it's affecting you externally. By externally, I mean like, you know, affecting your likelihood of getting a job or how you're perceived or things like that. And then it's also affecting you internally because it's causing you suffering. Yes. Do you understand that distinction? Yes. Okay.

So how closely tied are the suffering that you feel from what the world, like, what is the relationship between what happens in the external world and your suffering? So I'm also going to. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. No, do you mean in a general sense? Sure. I think that I constantly worry

I guess I actually I don't know how to answer that I don't know how to ask you in a specific way okay and now apologies because we're going to have sort of like a three-way conversation because I'm going to touch I'm going to ask Twitch chats and things to do okay so how much of you being upset

about this situation or maybe upset isn't even let's just use the word suffering so how much of your suffering is related to something about the outside world. Like the way that you're being misrepresented, the way that people are going to view you, sort of a loss of integrity, like how much of it has to do with them? Like the outside world. Like, oh, now that like this guy made this video, people are going to think that you're dumb. Like, they're not going to respect you, but like it's unfair because, you know, he's not

accurately representing your viewpoint. Um, I would say that within my job, that's a very, very big stressor or within my line of work. Okay. So how much of your suffering do you think is tied to the external, like something about the outside world? Like either how you're viewed or, you know, how you're respected or whether you're misrepresented. Outside world, I don't really bother with too much.

Unless you're also talking of, well. Like, I'm talking about the lead community. Are we differentiating, like, work within the, as well as just like the regular? So what I'm saying is that, like, there's, like, there's something going on inside you. Like, you're suffering in here, right? You feel like things are unfair and unjust. And I'm trying to figure out how much of that suffering comes from the outside world and how much of it comes from you. Like, how much of it is, like, the reason I'm suffering is because I'm afraid I'm going to lose my job.

The reason I'm suffering is because people are not going to respect me or treat me with integrity. The reason I'm suffering is because people misunderstand my viewpoint. Like, I'm trying to figure out in that because, like, is that accurate? I think that, I think a lot of my suffering or I think a lot of my mental pain and stressors lately is that the deeper that I seem to be going in a lot of things, the more I seem to be going. lose my idea of what I'm doing more, and that harms me. What does that mean? In the sense that when I experience things like this, like the straw manning or the stuff like that, it makes me think there might not be a real purpose to anything that I'm doing, and that starts

to really just get to me. because it makes me think I'm wasting a lot of time. Okay. So let me just make sure I understand that. So what I hear you saying is like if you try to do something, right? So in the league community, like you go like you've gone harder and deeper into the league community. Like you're streaming, you know, two tournaments at a time. You're posting things.

You're sharing your opinions. You really love strategy. Strategy is a beautiful thing. It's like what motivates you. It's what's motivated. you always. And the further you get in this community, the more you wrap yourself up in it, you get something happens that's negative. And then it makes you question whether your commitment to like all this time investment, everything that you've been doing is like worth it or not worth it.

Yeah. And then it brings me to some really dark places. Sure. Right. So it makes it makes you the question how you're spending your time, whether it's worth it to do this. And then if you, if it's not worth it to do this, then you're SOL because it's not like you've invested in other things. Yeah. That's, it's a really,

it's a really unsettling spot that I, I'm actually in right now. Yeah. Also, yeah. Yeah. So continue because I don't want to segue. So, so this is going to be tricky. So I'm going to ask Twitter chat for. a second, okay?

Yeah. Fuck, how do we even do this? Hold on. I'm going to need a minute. Yeah. So let me ask you something. What do you think the consequences of this are? What are the consequences of the video?

The video didn't actually seem to, I think that I overreacted in my own mind about things. It actually seems like, from a lot of, like, private messages that I got, as well as some private conversations I've had, as well as like the public perception. There was a counter video that,

not counter video, but there was a counter post that came out. It actually didn't, it seemed like, and I could be wrong. I don't know. I mean, I looked everywhere that I could.

It seemed like the community actually defended me a lot more than any sort of attack. it seemed like the community was actually very aware that all the points that were actually brought up there was lots of people referencing like specific things that actually do exist on the internet that showcase the video as being a straw man and other stuff like that

what do you think about that that felt really relieving but there were still a very there was still a very unsettling feeling where there's some other people that are not in the community, but rather in the workplace, that seemed to not endorse, but promote the video. And that disturbed me because it would suggest that either they're not doing their own research or they're okay with the disingenuity that was being portrayed,

at least in my feeling. And that just makes me go, what the fuck is wrong with you? But, yeah, I don't, yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm really sorry about this, guys. I just need a second to really try to,

because I think we're on the cusp of something big, and I'm trying to figure out how to make it applicable to Twitch chat, okay? So let's just think about this, Ellis. So you painted this picture, right? And you painted this. Let's just think back through like what picture you painted for me and us. And let's think about what the actual situation is. So you were kind of saying, okay, this post happened.

It made you feel bad. It made you feel unsettled that this person was attacking you. He was straw manning you. He was not like accurately representing your viewpoint. And that this affects... Others, too. What? Other, other, he references other people.

I took my gripe with it as serious as I did, because I was the only one constantly referenced throughout the video. Yeah, so, so that's what you said, is that, I mean, it's clearly like it's your face that's on the video. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Okay, so it makes you feel bad, makes you feel unsettled. Go ahead. It made me feel like it was a personal attack masqueraded as analysis was the literal line that I used a few times when people asked me to explain how I felt. Okay.

And it disturbed me that it seemed like there were so many other people that also felt the same way within both the community and in the workplace. And yet at the same time, there were other people within the workplace that seemingly just turned a blind eye to that. Okay. And then the one of the goals. Ellis, I'm going to interrupt you. Yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay. So I'm going to try to make a couple of points, okay?

So the picture that you painted is that you're kind of under attack. You feel like things are unfair, unjust. You also talked about like the difficulty of defense, right? That it's like really easy to attack, but it's like really hard to defend against because you've made your point very clearly time and time and time again, but anyone on the internet can like creatively edit things and make you look like a dumbass. Yes. Right?

And that's what it sounds like he did. It sounds like it was unfair. Like he made you look like a dumbass. Like he didn't, he didn't frame the argument correctly. He didn't do, he just didn't do any of it. And then your concern.

So this is what I think, I'm still not quite sure that I was able to convey what my question was. but then your suffering is kind of like twofold. One is that you feel attacked. One is kind of internal and because you were attacked. And the other is that like your suffering seems very, very closely tied to your perception about how you're, about your perception in the external world. And then you also talked about like it was very frustrating that you couldn't respond right away. Like it was 10 hours.

the video had been up for 10 hours and like it had been like it's like a you know building that's been on fire for 10 hours and now you guys are showing up right that's that that's the that's the like when you count 10 like 10 out like who who who counts 10 hours like less than a day right but it's it's not less than a day to you like if it's been up for like less than a day and you saw it like that doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me but to you 10 hours like six hours and 10 hours and 14 hours feels significant because of the way that you're framing you. the problem. And in turn feels significant to you because if you could have responded by hour two, hour four and no wonder you sleep with your cell phone under your pillow. And like, got to check it. I actually, I was woken up by

constant calls saying you need to get to Reddit. You need to get to Reddit. You need to get to Reddit. You need to get to Reddit. There were so many messages. So now we think, okay, so now we're getting it, right? Okay. So now the question is how much of your suffering comes from within you and how much of it comes from the outside world.

I don't know how to answer that even in like a number percentage. Yeah. I think that it varies depending on topics. I understand. It's a hard question to answer, right? So here's what I think is going on. So I think you're trying to control things out there. And if you try to control things out there, that's the way that you feel better within

yourself. Because you're telling me that when you get the, when something like this negative happens, it's like a tsunami that hits you. And then your psychology goes like when one negative event, which by the way, doesn't actually sound that negative because it sounds like you're well respected by the community and people are coming to your defense all over the place,

that they can see this guy for what he is and that you actually are respected. But that doesn't seem to matter. That comes in. We've been talking now. We've been talking now. Yeah. No, I just didn't.

I don't know. That sentence didn't sit. with me. It's not the guy for what he is. It's just the video. Okay, fine. Fine. My point is that for the first 35 minutes of our conversation, it's, you've talked about this in the prospective impact. It has on you. And yet when we actually ask you about the impact, it seems like on the contrary, you have a lot of reasons to feel positive because not only like, do you not have to defend yourself? People are doing it for you. Right? But it's weird that like, that's not the second. You didn't say,

by the way, there's been this controversy. This guy kind of attacked me on the video and a lot of people came to my defense. The sentence of they came to my defense is like uncovered like late into the conversation. And part of that may be just you're providing a lot of context in detail, which I asked you for. So we just naturally got to it like over time. Possible. But I don't I don't think that's the case. I think that that anyway. So let's just take a step back. So then when this when this thing happens like there's a tsunami that hits. It's your psychology. And then as you put it, you start to think about whether this is a waste of time. Should you be doing this? It makes you question your life. Your life goes to a dark place. But while there's a tsunami because this guy posted this video and it makes you question your integrity, not question your integrity, but when you're afraid that your integrity is under attack, that you're almost, it's almost like you're paranoid that people are, like you can't be reassured that like people know you for who you are.

you're paranoid that this attack is going to change the way that people think about you. Because I can't manage the... I know about the differences between views versus comments versus... What can't you manage? What do you mean? You were about to say, I can't manage, and then you cut yourself off. Oh, I can't manage... The people who don't read the comments and just watch the video.

Yep. And I don't know what that number is. And how does it feel to not be able to manage that? It fucking feels like holy shit. Just Jesus Christ, apparently this is possible. What is it that's possible? Anyone can just say anything. Yep.

And I know, I know that that is obviously a thing, but it... It's terrifying, right? That you can work in this industry for soul. long. You can do such thoughtful and detailed analysis. You can try to elevate the strategy of the league community because strategy is a beautiful thing and you're attracted to it like a work of

art. And this asshole can just make a video. I don't like labels like that. I know you don't like labels like that. This goes back to like you need to start getting angry at people besides yourself. You remember that? Right. Maybe, maybe. So, how is this guy not an asshole?

Because I don't know what the actual intention is of the video. Sure, you do. I'm not him. I have an idea, but the idea can be wrong. So until I actually talk with him, which actually, I have a DM from him. I just haven't opened it for two days because I'm trying to manage my trust. Dude, let me explain something to you. When someone puts your face on the front of a video about analysis and then takes all of your analysis out of context and doesn't do it complete,

I believe that is a personal attack masquerading his analysis, as you put it. I think that's a fair assessment. Happens all the time on the internet. Right? And I think when someone attacks you, I don't think it's out of line to call them an asshole in that situation. Because it does sound like they're being unfair. So there's a lot going on here, Ellis. The first is that I'm still not sure how you understand who you are versus what the outside world.

is and where the origin of suffering is. Like, I think you're suffering, so let me just be very clear, okay? So I'm going to just speak now instead of trying to ask you like questions that could be leading. So I want everyone at home to listen to this too. Suffering comes from within. Suffering doesn't come from the external world. And the reason that suffering comes from within is those who try to control the external

world are the ones that suffer on the inside. So earlier I was asking Twitch chat, how much of your suffering comes from the external world? And they said between like 80 and 100%. And they're 100% right. The crazy thing there, though, is that even though they're like 100% right, they're kind of wrong in a weird way. There's another step to it, which is that you trying to control the external world and you trying to control people's opinions of you. You trying to control how many people, like you are tearing yourself apart because people are watching the video and not reading the comments.

And that is like, that's tearing you apart. And just think about that for a second. You can't control that, absolutely, right? And yet, we tear ourselves apart all the time for things that are completely out of our control. And in fact, the only way you can tear yourself apart is to control that which you cannot control. So, like, if you want to let go of all of this stuff, you got to let go of all of it, right? You got to understand that the most that you can do is present your analysis. You can't force people to read YouTube comments.

And the crazy thing, LS, is that that is a strategy that is actually going to work. And we have evidence that it works. Because Newsflash, you're actually a professional within the League of Legends community. Newsflash, when someone makes an attack video like this, people rise to your defense. How did you get them to do that? Did you control that? I've always, you know the quote by Reagan about like the light and the heat? You know what I'm talking about?

No. Like, I think this is actually like not a problem maybe, but it's what I'm thinking of when you're saying that I can't control this stuff, right? But I think that I've lived by, especially in like my, like, I don't know, survival instincts or within this community especially, if you, you know, the, you know, the, the quote, I think it's by Reagan. If you can't make someone see the light, you make them feel the heat. You know, of the light, obviously, if they choose to turn a blind eye. And I actually feel like that's how I got where I am now. It's because, yeah.

Make sense to me. It's weird to me to hear stop trying to up the heat, you know? Yes, that's why I'm telling you. Because I think your strategy, so you guys have to understand this, okay? This is really important. Your strategy is not dumb. It is good, but it also leads to suffering. Right?

Because this is the thing, Ellis, just think about this, man. You are trying, your personal well-being is tied to your perception of other people's perception of you. Yeah. Do you see that? Yes. If you... Okay. Right?

So like, and you're not alone this way, right? This is how we're all wired. That everyone at home, your sense of well-being is tied to what you believe other people think about you. Let's take a guy with social anxiety who's like in a group full of people. He's tortured because he thinks that they think that he's not like a decent person and that he's dumb and he looks stupid. I do that a lot. And his teeth are crooked. Yes.

Like, just think about that. You're fighting the shadow of a shadow. Like, that's not a game you can win, man. You are trying to convince people, like, you're trying to convince someone who's fictitious. Do you know what L.S actually originally stood for? What? Last shadow. Yeah.

Funny. But Dr. Kay, I got to tell you, you know, you're talking about suffering and suffering. leads to anger and, you know, like, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side. I think you're actually a sip, okay? Yeah, I'm saying a joke. Absolutely. So I'll tell you something, okay? So in my second year, in my second year of residency, there was one person who recognized I'm a

set, okay? So one of my, so at the end of one of my rotations, I meet with the psychiatrist who I've been working with for three years. I mean, sorry, three months. And so I meet with a psychiatrist. She's like, I mean, she's like older. So she's been doing it for a while. She's probably in her like late 50s or early 60s or something like that. She's really good psychiatrist. Brilliant. Right. So and so usually when we, so I meet her for my post, you know, rotation feedback. So I've been working in this hospital under her supervision for three months. And usually like, you know, they like they'll tell you things like, you know, you need to be better.

at writing your notes, like your diagnosis is really good. You're really good at connecting with patients. They give you feedback about your performance as a doctorly things. Like how good are you at diagnosis? How good are you at treatment? How good are you at like, you know, talking to families? So her feedback for me is, I see you. Please use your power for good and not evil. That was her feedback for me. She didn't talk to me about my notes, didn't talk to me about like my knowledge of medications or anything like that. She's like, use your power for good and not evil. And I was like, okay, I will do that. And so then that was really where Healthy Gamer was born.

Because I realized, so like, I don't know if people realize this, but, you know, I'm good with people. I'm good at understanding people. And you can also, like, you can, you know, if you understand people, you can help them or you can destroy them. You can do both. Yes. Yes, yes. Every once in a while, I get upset with someone. It's happened recently.

And fucking terrified the shit out of them by saying, very little because they pissed me off and they did something that was bad and just I scared myself that day because yeah but you're you're right I'm a Siff there you go do you really feel like I was because I am a Sip like my whole point no no I was I was just because you're telling me to get angry right and you know just walking down that well so here's here's what I truly believe L S is that there isn't like the the real way to find peace is that we try to hard to be Jedi's and we ignore our Sith. And I think

that you shouldn't do either one to the extreme. But like I think I think that you're really in some weird messed up place when some guys like you you describe his video is a personal attack masquerading as analysis and you're not willing to call the guy an

asshole. Because people can do assholeist things but it doesn't make them an asshole. Is that an assholeish thing? Yes. Okay, fine. So, so I'll agree with you then. And fine. He's being an asshole, but I don't think he is an asshole. Okay, okay. Being an asshole, I can live with. Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's that I can live with. Okay. So I'm glad we cleared that up. Anyway. So that's how I felt, you know. So going back to this thing. So, but like, do you get that you, like, what's causing you suffering is like the idea of like the internet listening to these people and like accepting their arguments? Right? Like, that's what's actually like getting you bent out of shape.

I think I'm an asshole, too, actually a lot. We're all assholes. Yeah, I know. That's the thing. I think I tend to be an asshole a lot unintentionally. Out of frustration. I think so too. Yeah. And that that's the stuff that I start to feel bad about. And it eats away at me because I don't want to react in some of the ways that I do.

Okay. Good. So I think sometimes we behave like assholes. I think what makes you a true asshole is whether you're comfortable with behaving like an asshole. Right? So the fact that you want to change in my mind puts you into the non-asshole camp. The fact that you're reflective and you try to make yourself into like a better person that other people can like makes me feel good about you. Now, I'm going to try to go back to my earlier point if that's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think this still goes back to like you're trying to control the perceptions of like people around you. And your inability to do that is causing you an immense amount of suffering. The interesting thing is that they do think positively of you. Like I don't think you can make it this far if you're like a super toxic person. Right?

Like unless you actually, I think the the strength of your, maybe that's wrong. The strength. Do you guys see his eyes? Do you all watch his eyes? There's a lot of people. that are very big on Twitch. Right? Okay, right?

So like, we don't even need the face. We just need the eyes. Okay. Okay. But listen, Alice, look. So going back to this, I want you to understand that your suffering is actually like controlled by how much,

how attached you are to the opinions of people in the external world. Yeah. And like for everyone, I use all kinds of examples. My favorite one is like getting a girl to fall in love with you because a lot of our community, right? So I won't even call them gamers. Like sometimes they'll have romantic feelings about someone. And that's a relatively like not a very common, it's not a very common experience. So people think they can get over invested in relationships when they feel like romantically interested in someone. And at the end of the day, they just cause themselves like endless amounts of suffering because they're trying to control the feelings of that person, which you just can't do, right? And the odd thing is that if you really look at it, like you're saying there are some people at your work that are kind of like, you know, they're kind of talking about you or they're

maybe thinking certain things. Like, fine. I mean, I wonder how much of that is cognitive bias. I wonder what they're actually saying, how you're being perceived. But I think at the end of the day, like, you know, what you've really got to focus on, like if you want to be free of this, you have to realize that first of all, like you're fighting,

like you're trying to make someone happy who's like a figment of your imagination. And actually like your salvation, and I see this is because like, as long as you focus on presenting good analysis, the people who are interested in good analysis are going to listen and take note. The people who are not,

or you know, you're not going to win them over because you're just speaking a language that they don't understand. Like they understand their own like, biases and perceptions, which is that any amount of analysis that you can do is going to be trumped by the champion in the last game that stomped them. You can present as much analysis as you want to, but if there was someone that stomped them in

the last game, fucking Smurfs, this stuff is O.P. Like, if I lose to it, it's O.P. I don't care what you analyze. Like, this guy was ridiculous. It was 21 to 3. Like, this is so broken. Has nothing to do with skill. There's got to be a smurf and it's O.P. Like, Riot's dumb. Why don't they nerd? this stuff. Right? Like those guys exist. They're us. There's a little part of us and all of them. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can't win those people over. They're going to watch videos like this. They're going to be like, yeah, that item's dumb. And yet you try. So what you've got to do,

LS is let go. Like, you've got to understand you can't control what they think about you. You can't control what they say at work. I know you think you can. You can only conduct yourself, in a particular manner and hope that it works out. Can you try to influence them? Absolutely. But you can't control it. And whether that video has been up for 10 hours or 12 hours or 24 hours or 4 hours, people, if you've done a good job of analyzing stuff and you've garnered respect

through your effort and like strong analysis, people will rise to your defense at 4 hours, 10 hours, 24 hours, or 48 hours. You can't defend yourself from all of those attacks. You can't dismantle every strong man. you don't need to because you have Twitch chat looking out for you. Like literally, that's how it works. I see it myself. People criticize me on the internet all the time.

Do you remember our first conversation? I think I told you that there's times where I get uncomfortable if I'm falsely defended. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but how do you know if it's falsely defended? If I see my Twitch chat or my community or followers or something, if I see them attacking someone, I actually get pretty pissed. and then also if I see them blindly defending me inaccurately or failing to actually convey something that I said

or actually argued due to their own ability to not... Ellis, what makes you the arbiter of truth? I don't know. It just feels bad, though. Yeah, but like, it's not your place to say whether someone is like inaccurately defending you. Right? You may disagree with them, but you're not the arbiter of truth about whether they're like right and you're wrong or vice versa. This is exactly what I'm saying you've got to accept, right?

Things are not black and white. People are going to do what they're going to do. You can be comfortable with it or you can be uncomfortable with it, but you can't control it. It's all the same thing. I agree with you. I'm glad you brought it up because it's another example. You get upset because you're controlling them.

You want them to defend you in the way that you want. No, no, I want them to not blindly defend me. How do you know it's blind? No, I mean, if I read that it's blind, do you know what I mean? Exactly. So, but just think about that for a second. That means that you're doing some of the reading, which means that their defense of you may be actually not blind. You have to be careful about the own judgments that your mind places on things, right?

So take a step back and understand that like, like, just, God, this is just, this is so hard to understand. Is this making sense? Okay. Oh, good. You guys are understanding. I see five minutes. making you stressed. No, no, you're not making me stress.

I think that this is like huge. I'm excited. Okay. You can't see my face. So you can't see that. I'm excited. Well, I'm actually using stream to look at that.

So whenever I turn this way, I'm looking at you. Okay, good. Okay. Yeah. So kind of going back to this, no, I think this is really important to understand. Right. So we live our lives as if like we know the truth. Like, that's how our mind operates.

Our mind operates under the assumption that its opinions are truth. and we just got to understand this because this is like this is the only way we could survive you know like when i get up and i walk into the bathroom like my mind assumes that there's a toilet there my mind assumes that it's going to flush you know when i use the bathroom and like my our mind assumes that it's correct all the time because like 99% of the time it is there are all kinds of cognitive tasks that our mind is doing that we're not even aware of yes yes like when you walk into our room you immediately go for the light switch Exactly, right? So our mind makes all kinds of assumptions and it operates as if it's correct 100% of the time. Because otherwise, like, you know, can you imagine how much anxiety you would live in if like you didn't realize that like if you thought that every toilet may clog every single time you went to the bathroom? It'd be torturous. Yeah.

And yet, our mind is just think about this for a second. Our mind is not true. Our mind is dumb. Our mind is fallible. When you have someone who has anxiety. anxiety and thinks that everyone thinks that they're like everyone perceives them as idiotic. Yeah. They treat that as real. That's the only reason that anxiety is, is so bad is because you treat your thoughts as facts. But you guys have to understand everyone you need to understand that your thoughts. Do you need to pee, by the way? No, my legs are.

This is just what my body does. Yeah. But you treat your thoughts as if they're facts. You say, like, I don't like them wrongly defending you, or blindly defending you. Who are you to say that their defense is blind? Yeah.

So take a step back and understand that at the end of the day, Ellis, people love you, man. Like, do you get that? I know that you've asked me this a few times now, but, you know, you know, the stupid quote, you know, if you don't like, you don't like yourself, other people can't like you, you know? Okay.

What I'm talking about? No. If you don't love yourself, someone else can't love you, right? Okay. Is that the quote? I don't know. Right. So, okay.

So, I mean, I, I mean, I don't like, I mean, I don't know how to describe this. I don't like myself at all. I like the idea of what I can do in the sense that I like seeing growth or something. erected that I can help create because I think I've already failed. Okay. I've failed to see it myself, but I don't know how to describe this. You're doing a great job. So what are you, Ellis?

I think that there is a lot of things that surround my persona that will prohibit me from achieving what I would want to achieve in the end, but I can have it live on through other things. And when I say live on, I don't mean my life. I mean work within the industry. I'm with you. I believe that you believe that. But what I'm asking you is what are you?

I'm not asking you about what your limitations are. I'm not asking you about how you're going to fail at your goals. I'm asking you, what are you? I don't know what that means, actually. I'm sorry. Okay. Now we're getting somewhere. So how do you know what a person is?

Based on behavior or things that they do, things they say. Okay. Patterns, idiocystees, what color clothes they choose to wear. Okay. What kind of clothes they choose to wear. Okay, so I'm hearing choices and actions. Yeah. I think actions over a prolonged period of time are infinitely more honest

than any words a person can say. I completely agree with you. So I'm going to go back to something that you said earlier. I forgot exactly what you said, but you said you don't like who the person you are, but you do like what you think you can do. That you think you're capable of action, but that you don't think deep down

you're like a good or decent or adequate person. I don't know exactly what that means. Like this is your words. You said like, yeah, yeah. I like the idea that I can try to help people within the community. Like, eventually, this is longer term, right? Setting up more networks or like academies or something, just depending on... Fine.

So, LS, let's just think about this for a second. So when I asked you, like, how do you understand what a person is? You said actions and choices. And when I... And your complaint with yourself is that you view there's a... an LS that is independent of your actions. Because you're actually okay with your actions. You're just not okay with who LS is.

Yes. There may be nuances and we can dig into it, right? Because you're an analyst, which means that nothing is simple and we have to understand stats and costs and stuff like that. There are a lot of nuances. I'm with you. But at the core of it, this is, I think, your basic problem is that you have to understand that as a human being, what you are is made up of your actions. the only thing that you can hold yourself responsible for is your actions. It's not your fault how tall you are.

It's not under your control how intelligent you are. It's not under your control what your circumstances are. Whether you grew up rich, whether you grew up for, whether you get coronavirus, you don't correct get coronavirus. The only thing that you can control and the only thing that you should hold yourself responsible for are your actions. And if we rewind this video, you're going to be squirrelly now. but you're actually happy with some of your actions. You said, I don't like the person that I am, but I like what I can do.

That is what you are. There's no difference between those two things. What you are is defined by what you do. That's what makes a person. The problem is that our society has allowed us to forget this. Because we're judged by so many things that we are not. I think when I say that I don't like who I am, what I mean by that is that while I do strive to still do like a lot of things and whatnot,

I don't like the short-sightedness that I have sometimes and like errors are stuff that I make and in terms of like I regret how I conduct myself sometimes. And also are you familiar with the Japanese saying that everyone has four masks? Sort of. I thought it was three. Um, there, but it might be, uh, maybe it's, I'm thinking about a Chinese saying with three masks. Okay. Uh, maybe, maybe you're right. And I'm wrong on the number, but you have the one mask that, uh, pass or buyers see, right? Doesn't really sew anything. Then you have the one mask the public sees, like people that you interact with, but they're not like close to you. Then you have the third mask, which is your closest friends and family. And then you have the fourth mask, which only you yourself really knows what that is. that no one else ever sees. I'm very ashamed of my third and fourth masks.

And so when I say that I don't like myself, I'm referring to my third and fourth, whereas I think what you're looking at is views of the first second and tidbits of the third. Okay. So now we're getting somewhere. So now, LS, tell me what are the actions that you've taken that give you the impression that the deepest part of LS is not likable or is not good

what I mean is like sometimes I'm crippled by the fear and anxiety and emotions right and I feel like that's weak not weak in the sense of how people think like weak and strong I mean that it's not ideal you know it should be a lot better if I wasn't like this. It would be a lot better if I could just be different. Whose fault is that? I mean, I blame my own. I mean, I blame myself, you know? I mean, I don't know if it's a chemical imbalance or just my own thoughts or, you know. Okay, so let's ask Twitter chat. Twitch chat is this his fault? To suffer from fear and anxiety. Okay. Right. So now I'm going to ask Twitch chat again. So now for, so think about yourself for a moment.

and do you guys blame yourselves for your weaknesses? Right? So this is the problem that you can see it in someone else and you can see how foolish it is, but you don't see it within yourself. This is the challenge. So, LS, I think this still comes back, this comes back to forgiveness, man. I think you need to learn how to forgive yourself. And that's a tall order.

Yeah, that, I have no clue where to even start. And I, there's like an exit. existential life crisis type thing that I think is woven into that. That's very unhealthy, and I don't know how to unweave that. What do you mean by that? I'm very, I'm very grateful and aware of where I am right now, like in my career, but I'm very bitter and angry. It took as long as it did to get here, but also that.

a lot of years from my adolescence feel stolen from me. And it gives me this, like, really weird sense of self where I never got to actually live certain parts of my life. And now that I can, it's like I don't want to. Yep. And it just feels fucking weird. Yeah, man. Yeah. I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense.

I'm trying to think about how to show. share something with you that'll get you just on the first step. How can I actually help you? So, Ellis, I'm trying to steer away from philosophy, but let me ask you something. What would be harder for you to live with if things, if it was no one's fault or if it was your fault? In regards to what? Anything. Just in general?

Yeah. Like, let's say, like, your years of, like, you know, what you missed out on in adolescence. would it be harder for you to live with the idea that like that's your fault or that it's no one's fault and it just sucks in as random? No one's fault. It's harder, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's what you've got to work on.

So I think blaming yourself is a way for you to protect yourself from just the sheer unfairness of what life has to give. and and we we seek order to comfort ourselves and one of the quickest things that we can always blame is ourselves so we get really really good at it it's really hard to acknowledge that something bad happened to me and there was nothing that anyone could do right that you couldn't like it's just inconceivable yeah to think that like you could like you just you there must have been something you can do because it's it's it's impossible to live in a world where random bad shit happens to you. Like, you can't function if you walk outside and you think that you can get hit by a meteor. It's just you can't function in that world. Right.

I want to believe that there's always something that could have been done. Yeah. Yeah. And that's just not true. Like, you get that objectively? Interestingly enough, no. I don't resonate. I know.

I know that I thought about this actually a lot. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So now we have a different meditation technique for you, okay, L.S? Uh-huh. So listen, let me, before we transition to meditation, I think we've, what do you think about today? Today was, I think, the most stressful.

Just because I think it's all so hot and recent, like literally within the last 48 hours. Uh-huh. And so I think revisiting a lot of things, but also, like just before this call, I was telling, someone I live with, that I'm feeling a lot of the, uh, the like symptoms of my like emotional implosion coming, like the cycle thing that I talk about. Yep. And that scares me because every single time it happens, I try to realize all the flags. And I try to, you know, tell myself, okay, I think this is what's going on.

I'm trying to manage this and trying to do that, try to, you know, uh, manage. Control, control, control, control, control. Myself, yeah. Right? And that's hard. So I don't know how we go about teaching you that control is what the origin of suffering. And surrender is the origin of peace. And so I think we're going to have to teach you that.

I think it's going to take more time than we have today. But I think I do have a meditation practice that I think will help you. and does that okay i'm just trying to get a sense of of whether twitch chat has followed what i'm saying i think they are okay so let's let's go to so okay so just one or two messages to twitch chat okay so you guys like y'all can see it in ls right so first of all s i want to thank you for coming on i know that we've hit some things that um we kind of disagree about which is perfectly fine i'm i'm glad you're telling me what resonates with you and what doesn't i think that's not something that, you know, I'd like to continue, I'd like to have the opportunity to continue

to work on with you. Doesn't mean that I'm right. You could be right. And the thing is, I don't think that you're wrong. I think your view is just incomplete. And that there's a, there's a way to say things. Yeah. So, so, so, because I, I think all of your strategies are actually correct. All of the things that you believe are correct. There's just more to it. Right. It's kind of like, it's not like Jedi or Sith. Like the fourth, the force is about the balance of the two things. And I think your basic problem right now is that you've just gone too far down,

like you're a Jedi or a Sith. And what you really need to be is both. And so, huh? They're called gray Jedi in the comics. Okay. Yeah. You need to be a gray Jedi, right?

Yeah. And so gray Jedi aren't final with their view of like really anything. Does that make sense? And like your only problem is that you're final with your final with your view of things. Like there's some things that are set in stone for you and we need to like wiggle that out a little bit. So the other thing is if you do a meditation practice and it doesn't work for you, don't keep doing it. That's for you and everyone at home as well. If it worsens your anxiety, just stop. Don't force yourself. Okay. So part of the thing about meditation practice is that

they're supposed to help you attain a no mind state, which is like peaceful. And if the meditation technique is agitating you, then try a different meditation technique. There are 112 meditation techniques, one of which should be quite natural for every person to attain a no mind state. So it shouldn't be hard. And if you try to do one of these other techniques that doesn't work for you, just don't worry about. So I think what we need to teach you is techniques around isness. Okay. So there isn't good, there isn't bad, there is just what is. Okay. Okay. So close your eyes. So these are going to be a little bit. I think you're also an analytical guy. So I'm going to give you something more of a contemplative technique. It's not asking you to do something. It is asking you to like figure something out. Does that make sense? So they're like two bit major kind of camps of meditation techniques. There are contemplative techniques and there are like doing techniques. So if someone says focus on your breath or change your breath, breathe in for seven, breathe out for seven, watch the the moon, you know, smell something, eat something mindfully. All those are doing techniques. I'm not going to ask you to do that. So I want you to close your eyes and tell me what you feel

physically. We're going to get, so you guys should do this too, chat. So close your eyes and just notice what you feel. Tell me what you feel. I feel my heartbeat. I feel a lot of weight in my hands. I feel differences in maybe the air moving around me. Okay. Now when I mentioned meditation, you changed your posture. Do you remember that? Yeah. Can you go back to your old posture? This one? Yeah, very good.

Yeah, sure. Now close your eyes. Tell me what you feel. Difference in posture. Uncomfortable. In what way? I feel like I want to be moving. Okay.

Like right now I'm consciously making my limbs still. Okay. So, okay, good. So let yourself move. Don't hold your limbs still. Now I don't want Now I don't want to let it's really weird.

It's like It's like an itch that Let it happen. Now I'm like locked. I don't know how to Let go of the control. Let your body move. Yeah, I know, I know. I just, I don't think I'm aim control right now. I think it's like happening on it.

Do you have the sensation of wanting to move your limbs? Not a physical sensation. Okay. That's what you mean. It just, it feels like I want to move. Okay. I don't want to move. I don't know how to describe this. Okay. Is it like, and? Uh-huh. I don't want to move. Okay.

Mentally, I'm squirming. Okay. So let yourself, so sit up, sit back straight. Let's see what happens to your mental squirming. Okay. What happens? Close your eyes. Mental squirming.

What's happening? I feel relaxed. Okay. Okay. So just sit with the way that you feel right now. So any desire to physically move? No. Any desire to mentally squirm?

I think I've realized this about myself, though. Like maybe one of the things that you might notice, right, the three times that we've met, I always wear a hoodie. Okay. I do a lot of things that try to make myself comfortable to manage stress. Okay. And whenever I'm uncomfortable, be it physically or mentally, all I have to do is find a spot where I feel comfortable and then it all just releases very briefly. But it only lasts a short while. Okay.

So now you feel comfortable. So, so I want you to just, this is going to sound kind of weird. So I think what you described as comfortable is actually not good or bad. It is. Does that make sense? Yeah. Right? So there's just a certain like, you're in like comfortable for you is not necessarily good.

It's not relaxing. Comfortable to me as indifference. Exactly. So it is isness. There iseness. It's not good. It's not bad. It's the gray Jedi.

It's not the Jedi. It's not the Sith. It's the middle. That's what isness is. It is not, you don't attach a value judgment of good or bad. It just is. Right? Yeah.

You with me? Does that make sense? Go back to leaning on your chair. Like other position. Okay. Eyes closed. What do you feel? My legs want to move again.

Good. Good, so let them move. Mentally, they want to move. Physically, they don't. Okay. So I'm not going to force them to move. Try forcing them to move. Do it.

Yeah, I can force. What happens when you force them to move? The left one, well, I have muscle. I have like, do you know what? Well, of course, you know, delayed like onset muscle soreness in my left one. So that one just feels really heavy. Okay.

Now I'm just in the rhythm, so it doesn't feel like anything anymore. Okay, so let it happen. Now, how do you feel? Mental squirminess? No. Physical squirminess? Uh, no. Okay, now let your leg relax.

Does it feel like you have to control it to do so, or can you let it relax? Yeah, it just feels empty, nothing. Now, go back to sitting up straight. Okay. So now try to find your isness. Can you find it? If you don't know what I'm talking about, just let me know. Yeah, that's what I don't know what it is.

Try to find, try to find your neutrality. So try to just, are you comfortable? No. Okay, good. Right? So now what's uncomfortable? My left leg. Okay, good.

So what does your left leg want to do? Stretch, which I'm doing right now. Okay, good. So let it stretch. smooth, but yeah. Okay. And what happens to your internal sense of, so just let it, let it do what it wants to, and sit with whatever it wants to do. And then as, are you done stretching? No. Okay. So then just hold the stretch. Like, are you, like, stretching it out, like you're resting it on something? Okay, good. So I want you to focus fully on the sensation of stretch. Yeah, the stretching feels very good.

Right? So just sit with that. Yeah. and when it is done, are you trying to control it? Um, I'm moved. Uh, no, not really. Good. Well, I don't know. Yeah. No, you're, you're not trying to control.

You're letting it be. Yeah, it's just like autopilot, yeah. Yep. You're noticing it and you're letting it do what it wants to, right? Is there any blame? Are you doing a good job? I guess I'm not even thinking about it. Are you doing a bad job?

No, otherwise I'd be uncomfortable. Yeah. Do you even know what a bad job would look like? Probably increased pain or something. Okay. I don't know. Fair. Yeah. So just sit with what you sense. Okay. All right. So now go ahead and sit. We're going to sit that way for about 60 more seconds, and I want you to just sit with the sensations in your body. If your body calls to you to do something, I want you to,

let yourself do it. Okay. Now let yourself come back. Yeah. Open your eyes. What was that like for you? The very end, I started hearing the hum of the air purifier behind me. Uh-huh. You can see it. Um, and that noise actually soothes me. So I just, because I just wasn't trying to think about anything, I guess I only heard that. And then that noise soothed me. What were you doing before you heard the hum? I was focusing on things that didn't pertain to my work or career. Like what? I mean, the body sensations.

Okay. Right? So. Yeah. So you remember earlier... Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry?

It felt like I tricked my body to forget. Is that makes sense? Yeah. But, you... You didn't trick your body. So we'll get to that in a second, okay? Okay. I think I understand that you think it's a trick.

It's not a trick. Okay. What you're doing day to day is the trick. That's the problem. Anyway, we'll get to that in a second. Okay. So first of all, you remember that moment where you felt like you were controlling your leg and you were forcing yourself to stay still?

And then I said, go ahead and let go. and move your leg? And then what happened to the sensation of wanting to move your leg? There was two different parts. One mentally wanted to move and one physically didn't. Yeah.

Right? So, LS, I think this is what you need to do. Now, what this is, I'm not exactly sure. Like, I don't know how to package this for you. But, like, I'm really curious. Does chat have any idea, like, what that was? like, do you guys get how this applies to what Ellis' problem is?

I'm getting yeses and noes. Okay. So it's my fault for trying. I got to think about how to explain this. So, Ellis, what I want you to learn how to do is essentially sit with what is. Okay? Because I think you're going to discover something very strange, which is that as you try to control, it requires effort, and you also create for yourself suffering.

And that when you do, you talk about yourself, in terms of like being a failure or like you messed this or did that. These are all judgments. You're taking your experience and you're attaching a label of like good or bad or insufficient or like, you know, you're attaching something to it. It's not just what it is. It's like something you're adding on. Like your mind adds on that L.S. could be doing better.

Like there's what you do. There's what you do, which is what you do. Like that's just what is, right? Like we're talking now. you can't do any more or less than talk. Afterwards, you can go back and your mind can tell you, oh, like, you should have done a better job. Your mind attaches judgments to all kinds of things.

And I think that judgments and control, like your mind also tries to control things because if you think about like rating yourself as insufficient, if you say, oh, I did a bad job, it's going to try to control the interaction next time. Does that make sense? Judgment and control are intertwined. As long as you're judging, you're going to try to control.

and as long as you're controlling, you're going to make a judgment. Because if you want something to change, you have to judge it for where it is. And you have to say, okay, this is where it is, this is not where I want it to be. I'm going to move this person

from not loving me to loving me. And in order for you to want to control them and make them fall in love with you, you have to make a judgment about the fact that they don't love you and that's not okay. And you love them. So judgment and control or intertwined.

What you need to do is sit. Your mind needs to practice being with what is. And not with what should be. And not with what could be. Or not with what could have been or should have been. Or what you would have liked to done. Shoulda, would or could us. None of them.

Sit with what is. And if you want to move, let yourself move. And you're going to discover a couple of weird things. As you start the process of surrender, you're going to discover like weird things. Like, oh, actually physically I don't want to move, but mentally I do. Like, what does that even mean? How does that work?

How much of your life is being driven by mental squirming? What even is that? If you could overcome that, how would your life change? I'm not sure. But this is what you must explore. So literally my meditation practice for you is like the best way I can come about, like I don't even, I'm just making this up, okay? I want you to sit in five different postures every day.

with your eyes closed. And notice what your body feels. Pick five postures. And as the sensations arise in those postures, it can be leaning one way, leaning the other way, one leg crossed over the other, cross-legged, sitting up straight,

laying down, whatever. You pick five postures. Notice what's happening with your body and just notice what is. And then if you have a desire to do something, if your body is saying, okay, I want to shift this way,

notice it. Make the shift and then reflect on what's changed. Got it? Yeah. Okay. Thoughts or questions before we wrap up for the day? No. How was this? Was this helpful?

The last thing... Okay. The last segment that we just talked about with like the is-ness is something that I... consciously realized actually a couple of days ago, one of my housemates, his name's Max, something happened with one of the monitor cables where it broke. I started freaking out because I thought that it would affect my upcoming stream, and I was starting to get really stressed and anxious. And then he just reminded me like, LS, nothing happened. $3, the cable is, you know, in the store below the apartment. you know what I mean like I was I don't know I my mind was just going a million places but I was brought back just to the cable broke it's fine go down to the you know the store and get a new one and so nothing happened like beautiful I lost yeah I want you to I told him later after I calm down that that really helped and that was one of the first times

that I think someone around me in close proximity in a very long time has even tried something like that. And I was sort of like shell-shocked at how quickly it helped me come down from my stress. I'm really happy that Max was able to do that for you. And I'm lucky. I feel happy that you have someone like that. Yeah. And I also want you to notice the words that you used. If your mind is going a million places, it cannot be where. is where it is. Right, right, right, right. Right. Yeah, this is really good. So train yourself through meditation to teach your mind how to be with what is. And if you train it and it starts to become familiar with what is, it's like learning how to dribble a basketball. Like meditation, you need to train your mind to become automatic at going to what is. And that has to be done

intentionally first. And then if you find your mind going into what will be, or going a million places, try to tell it to come back to what is. But that has to be trained, hopefully through this technique. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. All right, man. Strong work today.

Thanks a lot. Take care, man. I wish you all the best. Yep, you too. Have a good day. Bye.