HealthyGamerGG - Interview: Parent Who Hates Video Games

Episode Date: January 3, 2022

Dr. K talked with Leila, a parent who is concerned with her son's video game habits Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

like to support you in these things. I'd like to help you get into a good college. But when I try to do that, like you seem to fight me. And then I get stuck. What do you think I should do about that? Hey, Leila, thank you so much for coming. Give me one second. All right. So Patrick, thanks for joining us. People from Patrick's community. Welcome. So Layla, let me go ahead and figure out how to get this. Do you have video or no? I do have a video. Do I need to turn it on or is it okay if just be off? So it's it. So here's our approach. So just to give you a little bit of orienting. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do today. You don't have to answer any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. You do not have to show your face if you don't want to. At the same time, I certainly benefit a lot from seeing people's faces. And I think the audience does as well because sometimes.

you know, if we're just communicating by voice, like facial expressions like can mean a lot. But at the same time, you know, for privacy concerns and things like that, if you don't feel comfortable doing that, you absolutely do not have to. Thank you. So I would prefer to not have a video. Okay, that's totally fine. Thank you. So, and are you okay with sort of the rest of it? Like, you feel okay, you know, if I ask you anything that you don't feel comfortable answering, you're kind of okay saying, I don't want to answer that. If I don't feel comfortable, I'll let you know.

So is it, is it just me or someone else also there and they can hear us or what? Yeah, was that not clear to you? So we're streaming this. No, no, I know whoever sent me that email and texted me and just, it seems that I just have an appointment, not with, you know, other people.

it seems to me you know but could you please explain yeah so let's let's maybe let's maybe pause because this is something that's very very important to understand so um what we try to do here at healthy gamer is like have conversations with individual people but we stream those conversations on the internet and so if you are not kind of aware of that um i think maybe what we should do is like pause because this is being streamed live. And so, you know, I don't want to, I would almost say, like, if that's not what you understood, like, I wouldn't even, I don't think it's even appropriate to ask you, are you okay with that?

because, like, I want you to make that decision with a clear head. Does that make sense? I think it's, I'm okay. I just want to, we don't need to name our, our kids or just answer the questions. Yeah, absolutely. So I think, let's do it. Okay, yeah. So the other thing about, you know, like I said earlier, like privacy is very important to us. So, you know, if you don't want to use your full name, if you don't want to use your kid's name, if you don't want to, you know, it's not, you don't have to share anything.

In fact, we wouldn't recommend that you do that. Okay, okay. Sounds good. You sure about that? Yes, I am. Positive. Okay. Okay.

So, Layla, then why don't you tell me a little bit of? bit about, so just the last thing to just to clarify with you, because I'm not sure exactly what you understood. So while I am a psychiatrist, I don't do, I don't deliver medical advice over the internet. So I won't be diagnosing you with anything. I won't be diagnosing your kid with anything. And I'm not actually your doctor. Do you understand that? Yep. Okay. Okay. So, then let me just share with you a little bit about, is it okay if I kind of share with you a little bit about why we do stream this on the internet? Absolutely, yes, please.

So I think what's going on in society right now is that there's a disconnect between parents and their children. So what we try to do at Healthy Gamer is we have interviews oftentimes with people like your kids where they share their perspective and their experience of growing up in this world, their relationship with their parents. Oftentimes we've found that parents who watch kind of even like,

not, you know, obviously it's not their kid, but watching someone who could be their kid talk about their experience of life is very educational for the parents and helps them better understand their own children and how to communicate with them and what could be going on with their kids. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Now what we're trying to do is actually flip it around because what we've realized that Healthy Gamer is that, so most of our audience, we reach somewhere, I don't know, anywhere between like a million and 20 million people a month, what we've realized is that like your kids or like the generation of your children could probably benefit from understanding their parents' perspective. And so the reason that we've

asked you to come today is to share your experience of, you know, what your, like what your situation with your kid is like. And so that hopefully all of the kids out there who are listening will learn something about what a parent goes through. And we hope that by the kids understanding what the parents go through, that it'll improve their relationship. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.

So why don't you tell me a little bit about, you know, what your situation is and maybe if there's anything I can help you with. Yeah. So, well, I have a 14 years old son who is, you know, recently. I mean, since the pandemic, and he's been, you know, plays. playing a lot on the computer, Xbox, and using his phone a lot before then. We had a time for phone and everything. But since, you know, the pandemic happened, then they were staying home, all kids,

and they didn't have much fun. So we just kind of break our rule. And now it becomes like more and like kind of addiction. So. Okay. And it definitely, I mean, it affects our relationship. and I'm very concerned about his school and his, you know, academic. Sure.

So let me ask you, how is it, what changes have you noticed in your son? Well, using a lot. I mean, spending a lot of time with his, you know, with his phone and Xbox and, you know, computers, you know. When you say a lot, what does a lot mean? Well, I mean, during, so of course now, you know, school starts, he cannot use his phone as much as he used to. But after school, like, let's say, from 6 to 10, 10 30, he used his phone and he, I mean, and all others like Xbox. So we're talking about like four to four and a half hours per day. Yes.

And then weekends all day long, he's on his phone. What is he doing on his phone? Well, I mean, talking to his friends, you know, Snapchat, TikTok, stuff like that. Okay. And when you say he talks to his friends, he's like texting with his friends or he's on like voice calls? Texting no phone, like phone calls. Okay. And this is a problem in your eyes?

Of course. I know. Sometimes I ask silly questions. It's just to kind of confirm. So what do you think is the problem here? Well, we don't spend time together. He doesn't, you know, do like exercising, you know, doing other things. It's just using phone all day long.

Okay. And what would you, what would you think would, like, what would you like him to do? Like, what would, what would it, what would a healthy relationship with technology look like in your mind? Well, like, let's say, kind of actively like going, like walking or hiking or playing outside, either with his friends or family, doing chores, you know, doing something, you know, he, it could be like, you know, And drawing, it could be some other things, some other like, you know, doing some art or doing whatever, you know, anything except using his phone and. Yeah, that's what I'm hearing, right? Anything like going to really care as long as it's something besides the phone and an Xbox. Cleaning outside, cleaning someone's house. Sure.

And what happens when you try to, you know, how do you try to, how do you try to? to get him to do other things? Like, what does that look like? Could you please... Like, how do you get him to try to do chores or exercise? Oh, how? I mean, I have to end up fighting sometimes. Or turn off, turn off the, you know, internet or turn off, you know,

because I have access to his Xbox computer and I can turn off the internet, pause it. But I really, for 14 years old, I don't want to get to that point. I don't want any conflict, any, any fighting. I want him to kind of understand, and I tried a lot, a lot of things. So tell me what you've tried. Well, like, you know, I mean, give him like, okay, after you do this, I'll give you, you know, more time. I'll give you this. Oh, you know, like some kind of prize, not really, you know, prize, but something that motivate him.

And what do you try to motivate him with? short terms, you know, and then he kind of gave up and then he just doesn't want to do that. So Layla, it sounds like you, you know, here's what I'm hearing. Yeah. So your son maybe had healthier habits that kind of pandemic hit. Things got way worse. And now you genuinely recognize that, you know, it's starting to really become a problem. And you're doing your best to respect his preferences. You try really hard to help him understand. You try really hard not to fight, not to punish. You don't want to just be like, you know, a dictator in the house. You're not just going to unplug the internet. And you're kind of doing your level best to not resort to

those severe punishments, but that something is kind of getting lost in communication. And sometimes you're almost forced into that position. Yeah. Is that pretty fair? Yes. what is that like for you to be forced into that position for force him to do like you you mean by by force force him or well no i mean i was kind of wondering like so here i what i'm sort of envisioning is that you're you're a mom who loves your son and he's doing something that's unhealthy for him and i was just kind of noticing that it must be like really hard for you to be put into this situation where it's like either he ruins his life life or you're the bad guy right there's like it almost feels like a lose lose situation to me well no i i do i do that but um i i do kind of you know turn off like you know i mean pause his

phone his you know i if i notice that he really needs but sometimes he by like late but he does it he he he does whatever he needs he needs to. Maybe a lot of reminds I have to do, but I want him, I want to kind of be, um, like, you know, I want him to understand and I want him to manage his time. I don't want. I do think I want, um, for him is like he understand that he needs to manage his time. And I don't want to be on top of him always. Okay. Kind of like a policing him. Yeah, sure.

So how do you get your child to manage their own time? How does that happen? Well, so since, I mean, since he was a kid, I, like, kind of give him like a time for doing his, you know, things. Like, for example, if he wants something, I said, okay, you have to do this between this and this time, and then you will get that. So it was okay until sometimes, you know, back and forth, back and forth, you know,

fighting, not fighting, like, you know, arguing. And, you know, since, you know, he turns to the teenage, it gets a little bit conflict. Yeah, so can you help me understand like almost what a conversation looks like? Like what will you say first? When will you say it? What will you say next? And then how do things kind of end up in a fight? Well, I try to say very nicely and then ask him a couple times, several times.

Please do, for example, do your homework. And then you have this time to do it. And then remind him sometimes. And if he doesn't do that, then I started to, I mean, do like. you know, taking his phone or other like computers or whatever, you know, Xbox he plays. So, yeah, so let's kind of tunnel into that. And by the way, Laila, are you feeling okay with the conversation?

Do you feel okay kind of continuing? Yeah. Okay. This is really helpful for me and I really hope will, because I think what you're describing is something a lot of parents struggle with, a lot of kids struggle with, right? Yep. So I'm kind of curious when you say, please do your homework. What do you understand, when you say please do something?

So if I, Leila, I were to say like, hey, Layla, please give me a call tomorrow. I mean, is that something that you think is sort of like a request or an order or a favor? Or what does that mean? This is kind of request. It's a request, right? So like requests can be denied, right? It depends. So it depends who.

request that so it's i mean it depends yeah so like when you say please it's between parents if it between parents and kids of course it's going to be most of the time denied okay so so like but what i'm kind of saying is when you when you ask your son to do something i'm curious like in your mind does he have to do it or he's allowed to refuse no he has to do it okay and so what i'm hearing is that you're giving him an order, but you're phrasing it like a request. Well, it's, it's both. But it's still, it's order. Yeah, he needs to do that.

But I, I don't want to like do what you have. I mean, like saying the way that's the way that we say it's, it's different. Yeah. So, yeah. And Lila, I think this could be part of the problem, right? Because what I'm hearing is that you say something and you don't want to order him. but you're kind of ordering him. So you think it shouldn't be, which way should it be?

It should be request or it should be order or both? What do you think? I think whatever it is should be consistent, right? So if in your mind it's an order, it should be clearly communicated as an order. And if in your mind it is a request, it should be clearly communicated as a request. Because here's the thing. So like if my parents, so I used to be addicted to video games, okay? And my mom told me the same thing that you did.

Yeah. Right? And so she would say, please do this. And like when someone asks me to please do something, in my mind, it's sort of like, I don't have to, right? Yeah. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, yes, yes.

Totally. Yes. And then she would come in an hour later and she would be like, she would ask me a question. Have you done your homework yet? Do you ask that to your son? No, for homework, I said, you have to do it. I see. So when you said you remind him several times, what does that conversation look like?

So you say, hey, please do your homework, right? No, no, I don't say please do. No, no, for homework, I don't say please do your homework. I see. You need to get off and get on for your homework. Okay. So let's, no, yeah. Let's kind of dig into this a little bit more because that's really useful to hear, Leila.

Thank you so much for clarifying that. So like, let's say, like, when is this conversation happening? Is this like a weekday conversation or like weekend conversation? Weekday. Okay. So weekday, like, what time does he get home? We have 536. Okay.

And what time does your first interaction with your child happen? Well, seven, let's say. Okay. So 7 p.m. rolls around and who initiates the conversation? I do. Okay. And what do you say? Awesome.

You're doing great, Lela. by the way. We're going to get to the bottom of this, okay? I say you need to do your homework. Okay. Before this time, for example, before 10. Fantastic. You need to do homework before 10. Yeah. And how does he respond?

Well, he doesn't do right away, but he does it. Okay. And are you okay with that? Yes, as long as he does it, I'm fine. So what does that communication look like? So you say, hey, you need to do your homework before 10. Yeah, that works. My problem is about his screen time, honestly. Okay.

So now I'm going to. Even though I don't care that, let's not say that I do care, actually. He does his homework and he's, you know, school. But still, he is on his phone. a lot. So my, yeah, I want him to minimize that. Okay. I'm with you 100%. But let's try to look at that from kind of hit. Like, let's not steer away from the homework yet. Is it okay if I just kind of

because I want to get that kind of pin down because I want to understand your interaction there. So you come in at 7, 8, you say you have to do your homework before 10. When does he end up doing, do when does he end up doing his homework? He's always like, you know, in the last minute. Sure. So like he starts at nine, maybe? Yeah. Okay, so he starts at nine and he finishes it by 10. So you've given him an order and he, like, do you talk to him at all between seven and nine? Or you're kind of like you know he's going to do it? A couple of reminders, but I know that he does it. So a couple of reminders, help me understand what a reminder actually sounds like.

Like, did you finish? Did you do it? And what does he say? he said I'll do it he says I'll do it okay so you remind of like maybe at like 830 let's say yeah kind of okay and he says I'll do it and then he ends up doing it and then

do you is there any discussion afterward like what happens at 10 p.m do you guys talk about it well just checking with him did you do it and then check it and then if he did it so then he's all said but the other things

he does it because he he he wants to get to the screen. He wants to get under the screen and then play for late time and then go to wait late. So my thing is that mostly that one. Yeah. We'll get to that in a second. So when he does his homework and you check it and he does it, what do you, do you say anything after that?

Like what? Like good job. Of course. I know it's kind of a weird question, but are you sure you say that? No, no, no. No, it's not weird. but I didn't know what what do you mean exactly by asking that. Yes.

Okay. And how does he respond to that? Well, you know, 14 years old doesn't respond, you know, if you say good job. It's hard. It's hard. Yeah, right? He doesn't really know how to respond to that. No.

Do you get the sense like how do you feel when he's done his homework? Well, I, although he doesn't say anything, but I feel like he's, he's also happy to doing that on time, I mean, by that time, and then he's free. I can feel it that he feels that he's free to go. Okay, so he's happy that he's done with his chores. Yeah. And that he has followed your orders. So he's happy to be free of the homework and even arguably free of you.

And then he's on his own time. And then he can do like being on his phone or being on Xbox or, you know, playing games. So Layla, when he does. Layla, when he does his homework by 10 p.m., how do you feel emotionally? Well, of course, I feel good. Are you sure about that? Yes. Are you sure you feel good that he does his homework?

Yes. Are there any other feelings there? Honestly, I don't know what do you mean by that. Yeah. I know. it's really confusing, right? Yeah. So this is going to be like, so I'm going to toss on, I'm not, and you let me know, right,

if this makes sense to you or not. But what I'm sort of hearing is that, like, you can't really be upset that he did his homework. But in the back of your mind, you're not really, like, happy because the only reason he's doing his homework is to get to the screen time. Right? And, like, what I'm almost hearing from you is that you're almost like, even though he did what he was supposed to do, he's not like doing it for the right reasons. and you can't really be happy if he's just complying with your orders because he's not understanding.

He's not doing it for the right reason. He's just complying with your orders to get you off of his back so that he can go back to the addiction. And how can any parent be happy when they're, you know, the kid is just sitting there like waiting. Okay, mom, are we done yet? Can I get back to it? Can I get back to it now? Okay, great. Like, how can a mom truly be happy in that situation?

That's true. What do you think? Is that, because it's interesting because you're even doing this thing where I'll ask you about the homework. And then you kind of like will change the topic and you'll be like, I just don't want him to use the screen. Do you understand? Does that make sense? Yes, yes. Yes. So are you actually like satisfied? Like I know that he did what he was supposed to do. So technically you can't be like upset with him. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a part of you that was like still uneasy about the way that you had to force him to do it. and that you can't really be happy about the way things ended up.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, one part, one part, yes, it's, you know, it's right. And the other part still he's getting on the screen, which is which I don't like it. That's true. Yeah. And so how, so when you dislike his screen usage, does that get communicated to him in any way? either in tone or even facial expression or like through words. May I ask one more time?

I mean, tell me your question, please. Yeah, so like, so what I'm hearing is that you're kind of happy that he did his work, right? Yeah. Yeah. But then you're also kind of like unhappy that he's like missing the bigger point, which is that the only reason he's doing the work is to like feed his addiction. Mm-hmm. And so you're kind of unhappy with that, right?

Yes. And so, you know, when people communicate with each other, sometimes the emotions that we feel will get communicated to your son, for example. So does that happiness get, does the unhappiness that you feel get communicated to him in any way? Yes, because then after, yeah, after he does his homework, then I tell him, hey, you don't have much time to play. a lot. You have just this time to get, I mean, you need to get off, you know, early because you need to go to bed. And how does he? Yeah. He most, I mean, not most of the time, but he, he does it, but sometimes I need, you know, I end up to to pause his screen. Okay. So sometimes he'll like listen to that order as well.

Sometimes, yeah. And other times he doesn't listen to the order. And I have, yeah, I have to take an action. Yeah, you're forced into like setting a hard boundary. Yes. Okay. And how does he, how does that communication happen? And how does he respond to that?

Well, he said, okay, okay, okay. But it's not like he really, he, he doesn't really mean that. Of course. And then I have to get an action, take an action. What is taking an action? What is that like, paint me a picture. If I was like in your house and what would I see? I have to pause.

Yeah, I have to pause. What does pause me? Pause. He's from from my phone. I can pause, you know, any devices that I have on the internet so I can pause it. So you use your phone and you just like pause the internet? Pause it. Yes.

Not pause the internet. and pause the device. I can pause the device. So you can pause his Xbox, his PC, his phone from your phone? Yeah. And do you tell him you're doing that? Or do you just do it? Before I guess, before I do it. Yes, I said you have, for example, you have 10 minutes. And if you don't get off, it's going to, I'm going to pause it. Okay. He gets very upset. He gets for sometimes he asked me, can I have like two more minutes to, I mean, but no, I, but I do it. And when you say that that was great. So he says, can I have two more minutes? No, I said no.

And he gets really upset and then sometimes I scream, but I don't care. He screams or you scream? No, he screams sometimes that I need to finish this. And I said no. And then he gets back to whatever, go to bed. So he screams and says, I need to finish it. And then do you yell back or do you're just like, sorry, game over? No, I just make him quiet.

Be quiet, go to your bed. Tomorrow is another day. Okay. Yeah. And how do you, how do you understand that interaction? Like, help me understand. How do you feel about that dynamic? About, I mean, doing that with him?

Sure. So he needs to understand. I mean, I feel, of course, I feel bad that I feel bad for him. But he needs to understand that this, I mean, the time managing, he needs to understand that. Sure. That makes a lot of sense to me. So like you wish it was different.

It's not that like you don't want to upset your son. But at the end of the day, like as his parent, it is like your responsibility to help him understand the things that he needs to understand. Right. So sometimes if that means a little bit of tough love, like that's okay. Like it's a necessary evil. Is that fair to say? Yeah. Yeah.

So let's talk about this for a second. Layla, I don't blame you at all, by the way. Are you feeling okay? Like, do you feel like I'm trying to like make you sound bad or making you painting you out to be a bad parent or anything like that? No, but I would like to hear more about how we can help kids. Absolutely. So we're just getting there. Yeah. So I think the first thing is to kind of map out what your interactions are like and then try to look at, so let me give you a little bit of roadmap. So we want to map out like what the individual interactions are like. like. And once we understand what your interactions are like, we can start to understand how people feel after those interactions. And then we can start to change our interactions to try to move in a different direction. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. So you say he needs to understand, right, Layla? Yes. How do people understand things? What is the process through which we

gain understanding. Well, by telling them. By telling them? By telling them and by, you know, making rules for them. So like, explain to them. Okay, explain making rules. So let's kind of think about that.

Okay. So if I want to learn mathematics, how do I learn mathematics? So by doing your homework, doing classwork, follow your teacher, that's how you learn. And if I'm not understanding in mathematics, what is the way, so let's say like I'm a math teacher and I have a student and I give a lecture for like an hour. And then I give the homework and then the kid can't do the homework. What should I do next as the teacher? So ask why he doesn't understand or she doesn't understand,

which way, I mean, what part he does he or she doesn't understand. Explain it more. Okay. So do you ask your son why he spent so much time on the screen? Yes, I did. And he said that there is nothing to do, nothing else to do except that. Okay. And then what do you think about that?

So it's not right. And I ask him some, and I ask him, I, I, I, I put him for basketball class, tennis class, all the sports class, most of the sport classes. And he does it. He like it. But at the end, still he wants to be on his phone. Okay. So I'm a little bit confused because he says there's nothing to do. And then you say that's not right.

Yeah. Yeah, that's not right. I said, yeah, you can do chores at home, like cleaning your room, cleaning house, you know, I mean, playing with your friends outside, doing exercising, stuff like that. But he's not motivated for that. Okay. Why isn't he motivated for that? Why, why? Why isn't he motivated to do the things that you tell him to do?

Well, because he thinks, yeah, he enjoys a lot. on his fault. Because how do you come to that conclusion? Like, what do you mean by that? How do I come? So how do you know why what you, so you have an assumption that he is not motivated to do things like basketball even though he enjoys them, right? But like, so it sounds like when I ask you why he's like to explain his motivation,

it sounds to me like you're making an assumption about his motivation. which is that he just likes the phone more. No, because I see, again, I see him that as soon as he finished it until, you know, he's basketball, whatever, whatever sports, as soon as he finished it, he wants to get to his phone. I see him. He wants to get it. Okay.

So now, Leila, I'll give you kind of like some information. Okay. So you let me know what you think about that. So just like a math, you know, if a math student is not learning math, I think the right way to get them to understand is as a teacher, don't just teach it again. Just like you said, you have to ask them like what part is confusing for them, right? So oddly enough, like the right move for a teacher in that situation is not to tell the student that they're wrong, not to explain it again, but to try to understand the student's understanding. Does that make sense? Yes. And so oddly enough, what I'm kind of hearing is that you'll ask, hey, why do you like the game? But then as soon as he gives you an answer, what I'm noticing you're doing is like you just kind of say that's wrong. And you're not really like understanding his perspective.

You're just saying that his perspective is incorrect. Does that make sense? So let me ask you questions. you mean that when he wants to get back to his phone, I feel like it's wrong, right? Yep. So it is kind of wrong because he wants to get to his phone right. I mean, I mean, sure.

Sure. So I'm with you there. If I don't, if I don't, yeah, if I don't make him to do something except, you know, being on his phone, then of course. So, yeah. So I need to, I need to tell him that being on. on the phone, it's not, it's not right. Okay. So let's make a big sense. All of us, I mean, I as an adult, I'm on my phone also sometimes, not 24-7,

but I also, I don't say that he shouldn't be on his phone. No, this is not my point. My point is he can be on his phone. He can, you know, go to play X-5s. He can be on a Snapchat, TikTok, whatever. word, but like, I mean, certain time, not always. This is my point. That's it.

Yeah. So let me, I'm going to just toss out words and I'm going to kind of group them. Okay. So what you're describing is like you kind of telling him that this is wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong for saying that by the way. Okay. So it's wrong. You can order him.

You can make him. That's like one camp, right? Like there were right and wrong. It's black and white. You have to do it. that's like one approach the other approach involves motivation understanding asking questions do you see how like those two are like different things yes so what what i'm kind of noticing is that like you can force him to do stuff and he'll do it because you have more power in the

relationship but forcing him to do things is not how you make someone understand right like i mean you're a no that's true right so and this This is where like when you ask him a question, I don't really get the sense that you're, I think you need to ask the next question, right? So like, help me understand. Like, here's a question that I would ask your son. So it's been my observation that when you actually go to basketball, you seem to enjoy it. And I'll even ask you like, hey, did you have a good time? And that, you know, you do want to do well in school. So like these things seem important to you and you seem to enjoy them. But every time when I try to get you to do something, you

resist me a lot. Can you help me understand why you resist me so much? Like, I'm kind of confused because these two things don't line up for me. What do you think about that question? So I do, I do it. I do the same. And what does he say? Good job. Yeah, I do it. But he, he, he doesn't answer like, you know, he doesn't have any answer. He's like, I enjoy it. For example, if I ask, okay, you have a good time in, you know, basketball or whatever, and I see you, you enjoy it, and then you want it also, you want it, you like it. But then you, as soon as you get home, I see you on the phone always. And he said, Mom, I play and I enjoy now. I wanted to spend time with my friends.

That's all he says. Okay. So that doesn't, what you're saying doesn't really sound like a question. to me, right? It sounds to me like you're making a point. I know it's kind of weird. But like you're kind of, I'm almost getting like the subtitles for what you're saying is you shouldn't be on your phone. Oh, you mean instead of asking, telling him you shouldn't.

I mean, I think what I'm hearing is that sometimes you'll, you remember earlier when we were talking about like making requests versus giving orders. Yeah. What I'm hearing is that. when you ask a question, it's not really a question. You're making a point with a question mark at the end. What do you think about that? Well, I didn't think, you know, that it's like that. I thought this is like a kind of question. Yeah. So, so I. You say it's points, just pointing to it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's sort of what I'm hearing. And I'm concerned that that's what he could be hearing to. Because what I'm hearing is sometimes he'll give you answers. and your response to his answers or his opinions is that's wrong.

Yeah. Okay. And so I'm just going to like kind of, I'll say it, right? So if you're like, if you're in a relationship where you share an opinion with someone and their responses, that's wrong, I'm not going to want to continue to communicate with that person. Right. My answers are just going to become simple. There's no like dialogue. What do you think about that?

Yeah, I get it. Right. So I'm not trying to make you feel like a bad parent. I genuinely don't think you're a bad parent. I think what's happening nowadays is that video game... Different conversation can make a lot of difference. Yeah, I got it. And video game addiction requires a sophistication of communication by parents that we didn't need anymore.

Need in the past. Because there is so much dopamine, there's so much. addictive stuff. Like, that's the way these apps are designed. That's the way the games are designed. And so as a parent, we have to be, we have to have a sophistication of our communication that counters the addictiveness of devices. Does that make sense? Yes. So, you know, what I would say, like, if you want some concrete advice, because I get the sense you want that for me. So we'll, let's give you some. It's to ask the next question. Right. So, and this is the kind of thing where if you don't,

understand, if you disagree with something or you think that something is wrong, it's okay for you to share that opinion, but I would try to understand his perspective, just like a math teacher. Right? So if like, if I'm trying to teach someone an addition and they say two plus two is six and I say that's wrong, two plus two is four. And I can say that 15 times. But until I ask the student, how are you getting two plus two equals six? Does that make sense? Like you have to understand like how they're getting to the wrong conclusion in the first because that's really when you can help them understand how 2 plus 2 equals 4. Yeah.

So, you know, I think you're doing a lot of the right stuff, right? You're asking him like, why is it that you don't, you know, you seem to like basketball, but you want to do Snapchat. And then he says, well, I just like being with my friends. Right. So, and that could be a big part of it. So this is where one of the things that we've also noticed is that when we work with parents, we help them try to ask lots of questions that they may not think about asking

for their with their kids. So for example, like maybe he gets bullied at basketball. Do you know if that's the case? No. Isn't you know that he doesn't get bullied or you're not sure? Yeah, yeah, I know that. Yeah, because I talk to him a lot. And he tells me everything.

The good things about my son is he tells me everything. That's very good. If he gets upset, I mean, even if he doesn't talk, I can, I can, and notice from his face and his attitude. And after I said, is there anything you want to share with me? He started talking, which is great. Wow, that's awesome. How did you get to the point where your son shares everything with you?

Well, because since the beginning, I talked to him a lot and I was involved, everything with him. And I just talked to him a lot. And I was very friend. And I never, I mean, never punished him. you know, really, you know, punished. Just I want him to be a friend with me, not as care of me. So we have this good relationship, at least.

He tells me everything, which is great. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's clear that you guys have a very good and loving relationship. And at the same time, it also sounds like sometimes, you know, you're turning off, pausing his devices and kind of pissing him off. And so I wonder a little bit about. how that would affect his communication with you. Well, I mean, the good thing about my son is he gets mad easily,

but in a second he turns back to his, you know, normal, which is great. Yeah, that sounds really helpful. He gets madden yet, you know, right after he just, you know, become quiet. I mean, very easily. And then he continue, which is good. Yeah. So, so it sounds like he doesn't hold on. to the anger and he doesn't start to resent you and that you guys have a very solid foundation

of communication. Yeah. So this is what I'd say, Layla. I think like this is where, you know, what I would really do is sit down with your son and ask him questions like, I don't know, maybe you've done this. Do you want me to force you to do your homework? Have you ever asked him that? No, I haven't. What do you think would happen if you did ask him that? Well, I never think. I never think. about it. Yeah, right? So, so like it's kind of a different question, right? Like, what do you think about that question? So what was your, you said, what do I think he thinks? No, what do you, what do you think about the question? Do you want me to force you to do your

homework? How would you, how do you feel about that question? Is that like, well, you think it's a good I mean, this is, this is a good question. This is great. But the thing is, I don't know what he's going to answer. That's the thing. Yep. Or does he have any answer for that? Yeah. So here's the thing, Leila.

The questions you need to be asking your son are the ones that you don't know how he's going to answer. That's exactly what you should be asking him, right? Because there's a fundamental disconnect between his view of things and your view of things. Yes. And in order to get on the same page with your kid, you can try to drag him over to your side as much as you want to, which is what I think you've been doing. That's what most parents do, right? But like I think this is the point where he's not 12 anymore. He's not 10. He's 14. He's starting to form his own opinions. He's starting to have his own beliefs. Right. And so it's really good that you guys have this really solid foundation. And so I think really like asking him questions that you kind of don't know the answer to. Because you're a, you're a mother who knows everything about your son. You can tell, right? So now this is the point where he's going to start to be a little bit more closed off because he's a 14 year old boy, right? He's like probably going through puberty and stuff. So I'm sure that, you know, there are going to be like maybe thoughts or feelings that he has that maybe he's not sharing with his mom because that's what 14 year

old boys do when they go through puberty. You with me there? Yes. And so like this is the time where it's time to start changing the way that you communicate with him. Yes. And really, trying to understand his perspective. So other things, other like suggestions for conversations are just asking him, you know, how important is school to you? Do you want to do well in school? Yeah. What do you think about those questions?

That's great. Right? So do you know, have you talked to him about that? Yes, I did. Yes. And he said, what do you think? Of course it is. Yeah, he said, of course, it is.

It is important. And then what do you say next? You know, these kids, what type of words are they do? I'm not dumb. I'm not stupid or stuff like that. They use. But you really don't know what's going on in their brain. That's the thing.

So when he says, of course, it's important. What do you say next? I said, okay, if it's important, then how come that you don't do this, that, you know? No, no, no, no. See, that's an accusation. Layla, you're losing him right at that moment. You see that? If it's important, why don't you, why don't you, that you're losing him right there. Does that make sense?

Yes. So instead I have to, I have to say, oh, then you should do this. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's the thing. Okay, here's the one thing you got to do. Laila, you're doing fantastic. You just got to change one thing. You shouldn't say anything after that.

You should ask another question. Oh. Right? Because he says, of course it's important. And then this is going to be kind of weird, right? And then you ask him, help me understand why. Why is school important to you? Oh. Right? Because here's the thing. In his mind, there is a conflict. School is important and I want to play the video game. And so this is what happens with teenagers is the more you push him, the more he's going to push back. And this is the thing, right? Because like you ask him like, hey, is school important to you? He says, yes. and then you're like, yay, we win, right? Layla, he understands what he's supposed to understand. He's giving you the right answer. And so then your mind, you're like, everyone charge, let's attack.

Then why don't you do this? Like, let's go. Like, change. Like, you just gave me, like, you gave me an inch of ground. So I'm going to go all in. You kind of get what I'm saying? Why don't you, then you're like, why don't you do this? Why don't you do this?

And when you ask the question, like when I, why, like, for example, we're going to try this. Okay, Leila, so it's going to maybe just be ready for. for it. If I ask you for the question, Layla, why don't you ask, why don't you try to understand your son better? If I ask you that question, how does it make you feel? Yeah. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, you're right. Let's articulate it, right? Because we can't see your face right now. I'm sure if we could see your face, we'd be able to see what your answer is. How does that make you feel? Of course, you know, it's like kind of forcing. Yeah. Right. And so in a weird way, Does that inspire you to act?

Do you feel like I'm on your team? Do you feel like we're on the same team here? No. Right? And so, and this is the tricky thing about this, Lela, is like, you're not wrong at all. In fact, you're 100% right. And this is like where the sophistication of communication comes in. Because you're right that, like, you know, spending like four hours a day on Snapchat is like not good for your kid.

You know it's not good for your kid. He knows it's not good for him. Mm-hmm. He understands, like, you don't think your kid understands that playing video games for 10 hours a day on the weekend is, like, a waste of his time. But he gets that, right? Yes. Yeah, he knows. On some level, he gets it.

Yes. And the problem is, like, he's addicted. So, like, even, like, sometimes, he may not be addicted. I'm kind of using that simply. But even, like, people who are addicted, like, the whole point is that they can't stop. They, like, they know it's bad, but they can't. can't stop. Like, your son understands that, like, you know, he understands how, like, relationships and

dating and stuff works. He understands that if he spends 10 hours a day on the weekends, like, on his phone, instead of playing basketball and exercising, like, it's going to be hard for him to, like, date. Like, he's not an idiot. You with me? Yes. And the problem, though, is that something is going on that has him retreating or escaping to the device.

and even to the point where he sort of recognizes, and I think this is part of the reason that y'all have such a good relationship, because a lot of things that you do to him, like, would piss a lot of kids off, right? And he gets pissed off, but he doesn't hold on to it. Why doesn't he hold on to it?

Because he recognizes on some level that, first of all, you love him. And secondly, like, what you're doing, what you're forcing him to do is actually for his benefit. And I suspect he understands that. What do you think? No, he understand that. Yeah.

Right? So I think that's why y'all's relationship is as good as it is. And I think really all you need to do is ask like one or two more questions, you know, because here's the cool thing. Like I, is it okay if I keep talking or you want to jump in? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So like here's like, so here's sequence number one. You know, help me understand like why do you play video games. I thought you like basketball. And he's like, yeah, or let's talk about great. So you say, you know, is school important? He says yes. And then like option one is like, then why don't you dot dot dot dot dot right and then he feels kind of attacked he's like he kind of

feels ashamed because you're right right like you're clearly making a good point like he can't really argue against it and so he kind of shuts down and gives you a very short response fair am I yes okay so let's like look at option number two right which is like okay this school important to you says yes and then you can say help me understand why school is important to you what about school is important to you. And as you get him to articulate, he says, well, school is important to me because, like, you know, I want to go to a good college. And then it's like another question, like, why is going to a good college important to you? Like, why do you want to go to college? As you get him to articulate and bring out of him, you know, what he really cares about and what he values in life,

then you're setting yourself up and then you kind of like the next, you know, the third or fourth or fifth question that you ask him is like, so I'm a little bit confused because you tell me that you want to go to college because you want to be intellectually challenged and that you want to make a difference in the world. And I'm kind of confused because like on a day to day basis, your actions are not really like aligned with that. So as a parent, I don't know what to do. I don't know because on the one hand I want to support you in all of these goals which I think are the right goals

but every time and even I mean I know you right and we're talking about this so I'd like to support you in these things I'd like to help you get into a good college but when I try to do that like you seem to fight me and then I get stuck what do you think I should do about that and that's when he'll start to understand

right? Because you're sort of explaining your situation to him. You're not telling him what's right or wrong. You're almost recruiting him to be on your side. And you're working with him. You're like, hey, son, this is a problem you and I have to solve together. Does that make sense? Yes. Right? And I think that's when understanding is going to come. Yes. Yes. I, that, yeah, I understand. You are right. Okay, so let's just think about that for a second. If you agree with me, how did you understand, did you understand that at the beginning of the conversation? Yes.

Okay. I was a little bit confused by that because I was expecting you to say no. So I feel like you've learned something over the course of our conversation. Am I wrong? You said the beginning of the conversation. You mean this conversation or the beginning of our media? Our beginning of our meeting. Yeah.

So like let's just, so you've learned something over the course of our meeting, right? Mm-hmm. How did you learn? What have you learned? Let's start there. So I, well, I learned that how to communicate better with my son instead of, you know, because my, actually my conversation was different than you. just told me I have to start with question and then keep continue until he he tells me

instead of I tell him and I force him, he starts to tell me and I get worse from here, him more than I talk to or I mean more than I fought and I talk. Beautifully put, Leila. I think that is the essence of the goal that we set for our parents. Yeah. which is instead of teaching your kid, yes, bring him to a point of understanding. Because as long as you're teaching him, he's on one side and you're on the opposite side. Yeah.

Now, in a stop lecturing, listening more. I got it. Yeah. So now let's ask you a question. How did you learn that today? Oh, I, I learned, honestly, I learned, especially this, you know, at the end I learn a lot. But how? What did we do?

Well, you know, I mean, the thing is, I mean, our generation was way different than these new generation. So, of course. And the way that we grew, it wasn't like that. And then basically we use kind of our parents' manner and then use it for our kids. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's why we need. more help and more um sorry to interrupt I wouldn't say what you're doing is wrong no no I mean I

I didn't I don't mean it's wrong like you know just the way different ways yeah I because I think I would just that that degree of judgment Layla concerns me a little bit because I don't think what you're doing is wrong I think it's insufficient for the current challenges that you're of the world. I agree, yes. You know, and so... Maybe I explained, yeah, you explained that and maybe mine was a little bit. No, no, no.

That too, I think it's like, this is the point of communication, right? As we just make sure we're kind of on the same page. Yeah. And so the other point that I was kind of making is that, like, you know, over the course of this conversation, Mm-hmm. Most of what I've been doing is, like, asking questions. Yes.

Right? And I think that's like to illustrate the point of like, that's where understanding comes from. Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of giving you stuff to play with is what I call it. Right. Like I'm not saying like, so for example, when I gave you two options and I'm like, okay, here's communication style one. Hey, do you think school is important?

Yes. Then why don't you do it? Here's communication style number two. You know, do you think school is important? Yes. Tell me why it's important to you and keep on asking questions. And then I don't tell you which one. is right. Right? I'm not saying one is good and one is bad. I'm saying, hey, here are two options.

Which one do you like more? And that's what, in my experience, that's what brings out the understanding is that it comes from a place that like, it sounds like your son and you have a really solid relationship. It sounds like you'll have a really solid foundation. It sounds like he's a smart kid. And so I think interestingly enough, like now that he's 14, instead of teaching him stuff, you can actually rely on him to like figure things out for himself. Yeah, just guide him. Absolutely. Like give him the questions, not the answers. Because I think he'll, I mean, he knows the answers. You've baked that into him. You know, he understands it. And that's why he doesn't fight you. He doesn't hold on to resentment. Because deep down, he knows you're right. And, and helping him,

so you don't actually need to teach him anything. He already understands it. You just need to bring his understanding to the surface. And sometimes the way that we communicate with our kids results in like denial or defensiveness. And when you say something that causes him to kind of like pull back and put up a wall, like then there's not going to be understanding. Does that make sense? Yes. You're going to get these like, because I want to mom.

Like he's going to get you these really crappy short answers that are like hard to engage in. Right. He's like kind of shutting down the conversation. Yeah, that's true. So I feel like we've covered some decent ground today and that we're at like in a decent kind of pausing point or even stopping point. How do you feel? Well, it was great for me.

It was very good conversation and I learned a lot from that. Are there any questions that you have remaining? I mean, we still have some time if you want it, but like any questions that you have or any other way that I can potentially, be of help to you? Well, I want to know about this. Is this course can be continuing or it's just one one time? Oh, no, no. So yeah, so let me tell you a little bit about our parent program. So here's what we try to do. We have a 12-week course. Okay. So every week there's like a lecture. And the topics of the lecture are first of all communication and alliance building. So our approach is

first and foremost, how to communicate effectively with your child. And more importantly how to build what we call in alliance. So I'll just give you an example. Like once you talk to your kid about why school is important to them, then any kind of limit that you set is not because you think it's good. The reason you're setting these limits are because of what they care about. Hey, you've told me that you want to go to a good college because you want to study, you want to be a doctor one day. So it's because I support your goal that I have to turn off the internet at 10 o'clock. It's not about what I want. It's actually about what you want. And then what happens is kids are, once you build an alliance with your kid, they're going to be a lot

less resistant to the boundaries that you set. So the first thing is communication, understanding, and getting on the same team with your kid. It's not even about restricting to two hours a day or 10 hours a day or five hours a day or anything like that. That's where everyone wants to start is like, how do I get my kids to play less video games? We don't start there. We start. We start by communication and alliance building. Then what we do is we teach you how to set good boundaries. So like it kind of goes into like, you know, once we understand communication, then how do you set an effective boundary? And that's where we also like want to bring your kid into the boundary setting. So you can say, hey, son, here are my goals for you. I want you to exercise. You know,

what you've said is important to you. I want you to do chores and you say you don't want to. So like maybe there's some wiggle room there. And you say you want to do well on. school, but you also say that, because if you talk to your kid, you'll also discover things like maybe they are getting bullied at school, or maybe they feel embarrassed about their acne, or maybe they're overweight or whatever. And that's the reason that he spends so much time online with his friends, because it's hard for him to make friends in real life. So there may be all kinds of stuff going on. It sounds like your son communicates with you, so maybe less important in your case. But for a lot of parents, there are things that they don't know about their kids. So once you understand what drives him

towards the video game. It can help you set healthy boundaries, right? Because now you understand, like, why he's resisting, why he's fighting. And so then we try to help people set, you know, very kind of like detailed boundary setting plans. So, like, you know, when are you going to play? What are you going to play? What's more important to you?

So that's like a question that we encourage our parents to ask a lot. You know, I understand that you want to play games with your friends. Like, is it more important to, like, stay up late on Friday nights or play an hour with them or two hours with them every day. Like which one is more important to you? And so once you sort of start to get like what they care about, you can even like, so then they kind of know that you're like sort of trying to support them, right? You understand what they want and you're setting limits, but you're not setting limits that

you know, he has to do his homework. But whether he does his homework an hour every day or all over the weekend, like he can sort of decide that, if that makes sense. Yes. So you want to enroll him. make him a part of the process of the limit setting. You know, it's kind of like no taxation without representation. Like you want to give him a voice in the limit setting and the boundaries.

Yeah. And then we'll sort of help you set boundaries and we'll help you troubleshoot boundaries. Because at the end of the day, like they're thing, you know, you can set these boundaries and he's not going to listen to him. And then how do you have conversations with him? How do you set limits on him? How do you draw the line? How do you enforce things? And then also we'll give you like communication to.

tips and sort of like, you know, how to have those conversations. The other big thing that we do in the program is we help decompress your emotions. This is a huge thing. So, you know, these little things like, because in the back of your mind, if you just, you know, Layla, what I get the sense of is that you just don't like him being on his phone. You just don't like it. And that kind of feeling is going to translate in your words and in your tone. And so even when he does everything that you ask him to, you're not going to.

you're not going to be happy. And he's going to feel that. Which means that when he does what you ask him to, there's not really like a positive emotional reinforcement because you're not truly happy. Does that make sense? Yes. So you're going to say good job,

but you're going to say it with a little bit of like, it's not going to be like, hey, awesome job. It's going to be like, good job. I know you did it today, but I'm not really happy on the inside. Good job. Does that make sense? Yes, yes.

So we don't want those emotions to come out with your kid. We want you to bring those emotions into our program and let them come out with the other parents. Work on that, like work on your fear for your child. We haven't really talked about this, but a lot of parents will be like afraid, right? Like what happens when my kid goes to college? And I'm not there to force him. What's going to happen?

And all of that fear that you hold, all of that frustration that you hold, we want you to process it with us so that when you are talking with your kid, when you're interacting with your kid, you can be calm, you can be collected, you can be focused and disciplined because he's going to feed off of your energy. And so it's a 12-week program where there's lectures, but then we also have y'all meet for 90 minutes a week. In addition, the lecture, you can watch on your time. It's like a video. And we're going to teach you a lot of stuff. So we'll also teach you about like marijuana a usage and autism spectrum disorder and like how to understand like what questions to ask your kids and what kind of games your kids like. There's a lot of like information about video game

addiction. How video games affect your child's brain, how they affect their psychology, how they affect their self-esteem, you know, how to have conversations around self-esteem and your kid feeling like they're a failure or whatever. There's a bunch of stuff in there. And then for 90 minutes a week, we're going to give you guys opportunities to practice. So you're going to have a coach and y'all will do things like role play, you're going to practice, you know, not using the word should. Why don't you do this then? You should do this. We're going to give you like literally like a chance to practice those communication skills and support each other as parents. And what we really see is that at the end of 12 weeks, parents who are able to actually commit to the program, their relationship

is very different with their kids. Okay, it sounds great. And then how, okay, is it something, how much we should pay for. Is it something we have to pay for it? Yeah, I actually don't know the price, but it is something that you have to pay for. If you guys, you know, if you're in a position of financial hardship, just kind of let us know.

Sometimes we have subsidy funds for people who can't afford it. Yeah. Let me actually try to figure out what the price is. I think it may be like, I don't want to misquote. Let me see if I can ask. It should say.

Yeah. So the cost is. $50 a week. $50. Yep. A week and then how about the other, the one that you said there is someone,

I mean, how about the 90 minutes? You said once a week, 90 minutes. What's that? That's all part of the course. So what we do in our course is there's going to be a lecture that you watch. And then there's 90 minutes of like group work. It's going to be role play, skills practice, processing your own emotions, talking to other parents,

troubleshooting communication issues, troubleshooting boundary issues. And like, you got to do both. Yeah. And then is it that one also covered by this? Yeah, yeah. It's all included. So our experience has been that set,

like letting people just watch a series of lectures is not actually like that effective. What's really effective because you have an individual case with your child, right? So like you can watch a lecture, but adapting the principles of the lecture to your individual case requires like actual individual support. So we have a group that every, you know, there'll be like somewhere between like six and 80 all usually. So like we're going to get like like let's say seven parents together once a week for 90 minutes where you guys will learn the practical application of the theory that you learn in the lectures. Any questions that you

guys have any trouble that you run into. We want to support you through all that. Because like, you know, in the lecture, I may say like, you know, ask this question, but then if your kid's answer is like something that's unexpected, then like, what do you do about that? Right? You may not know. So that's why we have the group every week. So you can come in and you can talk to your coach and you can say, hey, I ask my kid, do you care about school? And he said, no. Now I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. You know? And so like, we want to help you troubleshoot your individual situation and practice these skills. Okay.

And also, do they kid also involve at some point or no? No. No. So most of our clients, actually, Layla, are your kids. So we've had like 7,000 kids come through our program, but their program is different. Mm-hmm. It's completely different. What's the program for them?

So like we work on things like motivation, you know, figuring out what you want to do with your life, things like that. but you have to be at least 16 to enter that program because kids have to want to change. So, and that's where we like, you know, most of what we try to help because like here's the thing. You know, your kid wants to do well in life, right? But like he may be addicted.

So even internally, he's like conflicted. So we try to help people work through their internal conflict. Yeah. Great. So, okay. 10,000. Oh, sorry, we've had 10,000 people come through. My wife is correcting me.

And then, so when I decided to do this course, 12-week course, how I can register or, you know, do I have to, is there anyone? We'll send you. So I think you've been talking to someone in our organization. We will send you information. Okay. Sounds good. Yeah. Any other questions?

That's it. Thank you so much. It was very nice to meeting you and pleasure to talk to you. I learn a lot honestly, and I'm sure if I continue, I do learn more. Yeah. So, Leila, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. I think the situation that you're in is very representative of what people, other parents in the program have experienced, which is that you're a good parent.

You have a good kid. Video game addiction or technology use or screen use has like, really gotten out of hand during the pandemic. And like the things that used to work for parents just aren't enough anymore. And so, you know, what we really try to do is empower y'all to like navigate this tricky world, this digital world with a little bit more kind of communication support, a little bit more understanding and to really like get on the same team with your kid, which oftentimes is not about them understanding.

It's just as often about you understanding. so thank you so much thank you thank you I really appreciate your time yeah thanks a lot take care of Leila you too

bye bye all right chat what did y'all think right good huh so this is why we love like we love working with parents

like I love working with parents absolutely love it right yeah I wasn't expecting her to ask all the stuff about the sales pitch like I just you know I didn't even know if she's going to sign up for the program. As you guys could tell, there was a miscommunication about her kind of coming on and what she was coming on for. I didn't know that she was even interested in the program.

But I think, like, this is, it's a prime example of like, you know, parents want to do really well, right? The problem is that, like, when they're emotionally, like, so scared for their children, anytime the kid gives them an inch, the parent goes all in, right? Any, it's like, it's like, It's like the kid is forming a dam. And if there's a crack in the dam, like the water's coming all the way out. And so the parents are going to use any crack they can. Then why don't you do this? Don't you see?

Don't you see? And I'm really glad. I hope Layla doesn't feel like, you know, a bad parent. I think sometimes when we point out things that we believe are mistakes, it can make people feel kind of bad. I think she's a fantastic parent. But this is the thing that we've really discovered is that, like, it's just changing your communication.

It changes the relationship entirely by understanding, like, what to say and when to say it. And it's like, because it sounds like she's got a really good relationship with her kid. I don't know that he's telling her everything, by the way, but, you know, maybe. You know, maybe that's me projecting. But, you know, but I thought it was really fantastic. She was super open-minded, really cares about her kid, you know, has tried a lot of stuff. We can really hear that she kind of gets at her wits end, right?

And like, ultimately, like, she can't let her kid fail. Like, so she has to pull the plug. And that's not her fault. you know, so she's like, she tries to do it. I do think there's a little bit more about the request versus the order, which I think she's sometimes mixing up. So I think that's probably also creating confusion with her kid because she'll phrase things like a request, but they're actually in order.

And then there's like not really transparent communication. And then that's going to discourage the kid from like participating because you mean one thing and you're saying something else. And so if that's the dynamic of your communication, your kid isn't going to like really, you know, they're going to say one thing and they're going to mean something else too. And that's just frustrating for everyone involved because they're going to say like, yeah, I'll do my chores, but they mean something else. Because the dynamic of your communication is that we say one thing.

We say what we're supposed to, but we really mean something else. We say what we're supposed to, which is, oh, please do your chores, please. But inside, it's like, better do your chores. Right. So then your kid is going to play the same damn game. They're going to be like, oh, yeah, of course, mom, I'll do my chores. but inside, I'm never going to do my chores. It's the same thing.

The kids are going to learn whatever communication style you teach them. Right? And so that's why when you start expressing an interest in understanding their viewpoint, something magical happens.

They will start expressing an interest in understanding yours. They take their cues from you. Kids take their cues from parents. That's like, even mannerisms and stuff. Like my grandmother does this thing where she like has this really big size. every time she sits down, she's like, oh.

And I even noticed, like, early on, my older kid spent a lot of time with my grandmother, and she started doing it too. You'd have this, like, 18-month-old that would be like, oh, man, like, what a day. Right? This is like an 18-month-old kid. It's hilarious. So they learn from you. They take their cue from you.

It's great. It's neat seeing, like, an 18-year-old with, like, grandmother mannerisms. Um, yeah, she doesn't do it anymore, unfortunately. Okay. Any questions from y'all? I just have a request from you. It's only undeniable. Yeah.

Okay, this is great. This is maybe the first time in, in, uh, in our history that you guys don't have questions, which is fantastic. Um, yeah, the interview just ended, medium done. You can catch the Vod, though, I'm sure. At Healthy Ganger Gigi, how do I become a parent? Okay, that's a whole different stream. Okay, so we're going to have a talk about the birds and the bees one day. Someone posted on our subreddit, they're like, you should do a talk about sex ed.

I think we may have to do that at some point. I actually, like, do a quick bit. So for my patients who are like teenagers and young adults, like I give them the talk, which is not like a... Anyway, it's like about birth control and stuff like that. And it's pretty good. I mean, sometimes people will be like, wow, I'm so glad this may be like the most useful you know, hour we've ever spent together. So we may try to put that together for you all. On Twitch, sure. No, I mean, like, but seriously, like this is important stuff, right?

Like, so we'll think about that. We'll see if it's, it may be against TOS, so maybe we can't do it. I don't know. So we'll see. Okay. Who are you rating, chat? So what happens when, when the kid says, no, I don't like school? No, no. So we don't just let it be. Then we ask them, what don't you like about school, right? Help me understand, like, what don't you like about school? And then it's like, once we understand, okay, like, here are the problems with school, um, then, you know, then, like, then you'll explore, right? Because that's when you really uncover the problems. Oh, like, the reason I don't like school is because I'm getting bullied. And it's like, then you're like, you know, that's big. So, you know, if they say they don't like school, that's actually a really important discovery on your

part because then like no wonder you're fighting an uphill battle at like trying to get them to go to school. We're going to raid minks. Yeah, let's rate someone with one viewer. Who's got one viewer chat? The sushi dragon. What is sushi dragon doing? I can't tell. Music. Sushi dragon? Yeah, what if the answer for why the kid doesn't like school is just something like boring? That's a great so then you can say what's boring about it? What are you interested in? When did school become boring? is a really important question. So our coaches do a lot of this work with our clients. So not the parents, but the y'all, basically, right?

So the 10,000 people that have come through our coaching program, because a lot of y'all are bored by stuff. My job is boring. I feel unmotivated. You know, like, so like then you dig into that stuff. So like, help me understand what are you excited by? Help me understand when school became boring. What happened when school became boring?

And oftentimes what you'll find is like, uncover other things like, oh, it turns out that your kid has ADHD. And so the reason that school is boring is because they literally can't pay attention. And it gets like, they don't, they're just sitting there. And everything that they're being taught is like, you know, flying like right through their brain and nothing sticks. And so no wonder school would be boring. So sometimes we also devalue that which we fear we are not good at. So I did this when I was kind of becoming a monk, or trying to become a monk, where I was like, I suck at life. So let me just say that life is not worth, you know, is not worth it.

So I'm going to rise above all this materialistic crap. And I'm going to be unattached from grades and worldly success because that's for people who are spiritually, you know, bereft of any kind of spirituality. They're so materialistic. And the reason that I get Fs is because I am better than them, right? So like you devalue things that you're afraid you suck at. And so that's, you know, so like when kids say boring, like let's try to understand what's really underneath that. Right. And sometimes they'll like, you know, school will be boring. So we see that too where like the kids are not challenged at school. And so my solution there is like, okay, try to find

your kid like an internship somewhere. Like what do what is exciting to them? Maybe they want to volunteer at like an animal shelter or maybe they want to like go to space camp or like, you know, you can do other things as a parent to support them. You can say, hey, I want to help you. What can we do that would be less boring? And the cool thing is it's not really about finding out the solution. It's just that once they understand as a child that you as a parent are genuinely trying to help them and following their lead about what needs to change in their life, that's when we really see a really strong alliance built.

And then even as a parent, like once they know you're in their corner, you can even say like, hey, even though I know it's boring for you, I still think it's really important that you do this. And then the kid is like, okay, fine. It's bizarre. Like they just won't fight you as much. Okay, I don't know what this, what's going on with Sushi Dragon. This sounds, this seems weird.

So, what is this? Dizzy Onion. By the way, anyone playing Lost Ark? Hey, are you already rating? Can I just quickly? Yeah. Hey, so I saw some of you guys in chat said that like, you know, you wish that your parents could experience something similar.

So if you guys want to help us get the word out, that would be really, really cool because we've got 108 spots and we're starting November 11th. And our coaches are really excited. So we're hoping that we can get enough parents in the program. So anything y'all can do to help us get the word out, that would be awesome. I think the command is in Discord here. What? Not Discord in chat.

Oh. Yeah. So you know, you guys can reverse Uno your parents. So what oftentimes happens is our, we'll get phone calls from parents. And they're like, can I sign up my kid for coaching. And we say, no, you can't. This kid has to want to sign up for coaching. And then the parents are like, screw you.

And then we're like, maybe you should sign up for coaching. And then they're like, screw you. I'm not the one with the problem. My kid is the one with the problem. We're like, no, actually, you should sign up. So you all can reverse uno them. Right? And you can be like, hey, hey, parents, I think you should sign up for this thing.

Yeah. So if you want to reverse into them, awesome. But also like, you know, getting their WhatsApp groups and stuff like that, that'd be really cool. Their Facebook groups, et cetera. So the other thing that's really neat about this, Sorry, can I keep going? Yeah, please.

I'm excited. Okay, good. Great. The other thing that's really cool about this is our coaches love working with parents. Yeah. So we were surprised. Like we have like other kinds of coaching opportunities like content creation and things like that. But the coaches themselves are super excited with working with parents.

And the coaches are like y'all. They're from like our community, right? So I was a little bit surprised by how eager they are to like help parents like connect with their kids. So it's actually really like fantastic. how old do our kids have to be to qualify for coaching? For parent. Oh, so parent coaching is sort of divided in two ways. I think like if your kid is younger than a teenager,

you may get a little bit less out of it. But basically we try to think about two groups. So this is what we call pre-insight and post-insight. Basically, does your kid know they have a problem or not? More practically, it's kind of like the two camps are like under 18, like kids that are living at home. maybe a little bit older, and then over 18 is kind of what, those are the two groups. And generally speaking, the experiences and struggles and challenges that parents face are quite

different. So if you've got a 14-year-old, like, that's really different from having a 24-year-old, you know? But I'd say, like, you know, under like 10, because a big part of this remember is like communication. So if your kid is not old enough to be able to like really like answer questions or like internal, like understand what's going on inside them, then it may not be as effective. We actually don't have great data on like kids under 10, for example. So I don't know if it would actually help parents in that situation. It's really geared towards like,

because remember, this is a program that was built off of our work with y'all. Right. So what we did is like ask ourselves, now that we understand what being a gamer is like, what, how can we equip parents to deal with us with Twitch chat, basically? Okay. So there seems to be some cool music going on from Chris Taylor. Telaer.

So check that out. I'd like to learn how to better communicate with my autistic son. Yeah, so then you can definitely... I don't know how old your son is, but we do have... So this was a big part that we added in this most recent launch. We added a section on neurodiversity where we talk a little bit about autism. Unfortunately, it's been my experience that you cannot, and I guess you could, but autism is such a varied presentation that we can't have like a communication guide for autism, right? Because different people on the autism spectrum, their communication abilities are going to be like wildly different.

So that's where, you know, you can absolutely learn the principles, but then you need to adapt those principles or filter them through whatever limitations. your child actually has. So like some kids with autism are nonverbal completely, right? So what we teach you is going to like not really work very well. Other kids will be like hyperlogical and may need a lot of concrete stuff. So you can't really ask them like questions about, you know, it's going to be hard for them to answer questions about internal feelings and motivation and stuff like that. You have to really make things like concrete. So there are a lot of like different adaptations. But the tricky thing is that those tend to be very individualized. Yeah, so it's tough. We're working on it. But so we do have some information,

but but the real answer, and I hate to say this, but as much as I want to say that our program can fix all problems, I hate to say this, but my actual recommendation to parents in the program is they can learn some, but then it's really to take the principles that we teach and filter them through your child's actual communication pattern. And sometimes that involves like collaborating with a clinician, ideally. Okay. Oh, yeah. So some people are asking, and I think Donana mentioned that.

So sometimes we'll have like both parents show up. And I told this story recently, but sometimes it's funny because like, this is hilarious. So we were doing, I was running a group session with the parents or I was giving a lecture or something. And in the background, right? So the parents, like, I'm like, there's a laptop and then there's a couch and both of the parents are sitting on the couch. And so I'm giving this lecture and I can see them, you know, on the Zoom call. And then in the background, I see like a teenage kid, like a teenage boy, like walk by. And the kid like does a double take.

And then he like asks his parents and he's like, is that Dr. Kay? And then the parents are like, do you know who this is? And then the kid is like, do you know who this is? And then he like got freaked out and he left. And it's like hilarious. Right? So we oftentimes. get both parents. And that's totally fine. Yeah. So that's one of my favorite stories about

parent coaching. But yeah, right, that's how we know we've made it. It's like when the parents have heard of us and the kids have heard of us. But that's really like our point, right? It's like be a healthy gamer. We're not, we're, and that's, don't worry, chat, we've got your back. Because I don't know if you guys caught this, but nowhere did I tell Layla like, yeah, he's got to stop playing video games, you know? Nowhere did I say that. We don't. And so sometimes parents are like, you know, it's really about supporting your kid in achieving their goals and helping them form like healthy gaming habits. Texting privacy policy in terms and conditions posted at textplan.us. Texting rules for

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