HealthyGamerGG - Jacksepticeye and Dr. K talk about life.

Episode Date: February 20, 2021

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This is the first time when people couldn't hear Jack Septuay and everyone rejoiced. All right, so you go by Jack, right? Yeah, Jack's fine. And is there something in particular that you want to talk about today? Not really specifically. I did talk to Brandon about it. I was talking about kind of the idea of parasycial relationships and things like that. But I mean, kind of everything that this job sort of entails is fine with me.

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, my staff asked me a couple of questions, and I got this question a couple of times. They're like, do you want to know what's going on with Jack? And I was like, no. And then they were like, like, two or three people asked me, they're like, do you want to know what's going on with them? And I'm like, no. Right. And is that something we should talk about, whatever is going on with you? Or is that what you talked about? No, I mean, the roughest part of it is kind of past. What happened was that my, father passed away like three weeks ago. Oh my God. Yeah, he passed away at the end of January. So I've been taking time away from YouTube and streaming and everything since then. And I've done one update video on it and talked a bit about it just to let my audience kind of know where I was and what's been going on.

But thankfully, like the sort of grieving hump is that I'm coming off the other end of that. So I'm in a better place mentally now than I was. and I'll probably be back to making videos and stuff next week, I think. Okay. Okay. I assume that's what is going on with me, unless they know something else about me that I don't know. I mean, it sounds like that's the kind of thing that, you know, it sounds like it's affected you. I mean, affected in the sense that, you know, it sounds like you've taken a step back from making content and stuff.

Yeah, I took time away last year to try and, like, reevaluate who I am and what I want to do. where I fit into the world. And I think this is another... I'd love to hear more about that. Yeah, we can circle back to that for sure. It was definitely a very formative time in my career. But I think this... I was going to take some time off in January anyway,

just because it's slow and, I don't know, vacations are good. But then this sort of like forced me into a sort of break of sorts. But I wanted to make sure that I took the time to do it and I feel like I'm in a better place mentally where I don't feel like I have to be always on. give the audience what they need or want constantly and being able to take that time away and just kind of say F you to everybody else and take my time for myself.

Does that require an FU when you take time for yourself? No, no, I'm being a little dramatic and hyperbolic about it. Definitely for some people. Some people need kind of like the harsh like, no, I'm leaving and you need to be okay with that for a couple of weeks. But most people have been extremely supportive about it. Okay. Yeah. So what do you want to? Thank you for sharing that with me. I didn't, I mean, I guess in a sense I did mean to pry. It was just, it was strange. Like I don't, I try to actually talk to people sort of blind in the sense that I think when we don't talk to people blind, it's quickly to get it. It's really easy to get into like drama usually is what it is. Like something is going on and like, it's like I don't really care about that.

you know right um so so so but if it if it feels important to you what i'm hearing from you is that you know something really unfortunate happened i'm assuming that you view it as unfortunate um which is a pretty big assumption but and that you've kind of worked through it and you feel like you're in a pretty good place and and so i i'm not hearing a whole lot that needs to be talked about there um probably not i mean we can go into it a little bit um i guess just because i don't feel like it really happens too often in the online community. You don't really hear about this sort of thing happening fairly often. And I think sort of to owe it to the legacy of my dad, it's nice to kind of remember him in good spirits and kind of talk about him in a way. Because I talked about him a little

bit on my channel before. And I've, I've never been hugely close with him growing up. And there's always kind of been a distance to it. But I think having something like this happen, it's nice to sort of look back on it fondly. And it's sort of a weird thing. that when you're in this position, it's a thing where you kind of have to tell people that it's happened, but at the same time, you kind of want to keep it a bit more private. Because I need to let people know to not go poking when I disappear for three weeks. Yep. To leave my family alone and to leave me alone and to kind of respect the boundary of what has happened.

And you kind of just need to tell people up front instead of leaving any sort of ambiguity in the air because from my experience, that just makes things worse. Yeah. So it's interesting because I'm noticing these two threads kind of weave together because it sounds like we're sort of skirting on parasycial relationships. We're skirting on, you know, pressures of being a streamer and how you sort of don't, I've worked with a fair number of streamers. And one of the things that really shocks me is that many of y'all, you know, are privileged in many ways, but that you guys don't get to do things that normal people get to do. Right. In the sense of like, grieve in private. Like you have to give people an explanation to like, like, you know, most people don't have to give, you know, the rest of the world an explanation when they like go off and do something on their own for like two weeks. Yeah, it's a really strange phenomenon to have to do. Yeah.

And one of the things that just keeps popping in my mind is like I was talking to someone who was and I sort of joked that if they post a page. picture of them eating a taco, people will get upset with them for being like anti-hot dog. Right. Now, I have this feeling a lot and it's kind of skirting between, am I an asshole or is this like my life now where I go out and you see people look at you and then the first assumption is, do they know who I am? And then the part of me that kicks in is like, well, who do you think you are thinking that people should know who you are?

But then it's kind of something that's happened in such a pattern that it's hard not to kind of fall under that assumption. And then when I'm out eating, I have that moment where I'm getting ready to eat my food. And I'm like, how do I eat food again? How do humans eat food normally? Do I look weird? Are they going to like talk about how I ate my food weirdly or what I ordered and things like that? And it's such, it's a weird sort of circus that goes on in your brain when these things happen.

Yeah. Jack, it's talking about those kinds of things, which is why I love doing what I do. Because what I'm, what I'm hearing. hearing from you is that like your mind is doing all kinds of stuff that because of your life, it's been trained to do, which are like not normal things. Yeah. Right. And, and so, and, and I really also really get excited when I hear people sort of talking about like who they are. Like, I, I like talking about this stuff. I like exploring kind of what the true nature of self is. Yeah, me too. And, and, and I, I kind of noticed because of, because of the way that the, the, the examples that

you used about, oh, like, am I someone? Like, who am I to be someone? Like, what does that mean to be someone and to not be someone? I mean, at the end of the day, you shit just the same as everyone else. And, you know, so it's not really like you're a different person, but it can sometimes feel like you're a different person and how do you navigate that? Right. So we can talk about, you know, the circus that goes on in your head, too. I love the way you describe that, too. So where do you want to, what do you want to start with? Do you want to start with? And I wasn't really sure whether you wanted to say something a little bit about your father or talk about that. Or we should just skip over it and, you know, get to taking a break or a parasycial relationships or what?

Yeah, I think the video I uploaded on my channel kind of speaks for itself. The things that I wanted to share and the sort of legacy that I want to live is it's a bit more internal than I want people to know. And I think the sort of private matters of it need to stay private personally. I think that it's good not to share too much with everybody all the time. Yeah. And not to skirt over it because I'm like avoiding it or anything like that, but just I've set my peace. You're allowed to avoid it. True.

But I think I've talked about it enough. Okay. I feel like I've dealt with it in my personal time. Perfect. I'm really happy to hear that. You know, if that changes, you know, just a couple of quick things just about grief for you and everyone else. I lost my dad about nine years ago.

And I was really surprised because what I really felt was that I didn't need a whole lot of support when it happened, but I found myself like missing him at kind of random moments over the next decade. Yeah. And it was sort of like there's all this support for the first month. And then like what I really needed is that support sort of spaced out over the next decade. And so. Yeah.

I've sort of realized that in this sort of business as well, especially, is that a lot of people are there in the like hyper intense moments. And a lot of people will say a lot of things in those moments. But I've come to realize that a lot of the people in my personal life and a lot of the people who I consider really close friends, you can really tell the merit of their character during times like this. Because I've had some friends say something immediately and then check in a week later and then check in a week later. and that meant a lot more to me than everybody just rushing to sort of get social points immediately. And I noticed that in some regards, a lot of people took it upon themselves to make it about them, which was a, again, it's something that I kind of knew already, but I've never been through something so intense like this,

that it became sort of a writing essay for some people to sort of say, who could give the best condolences, basically, and who could be the better person. at being sorry for me. And then I just become a character and sort of a cast member outside of what their conversation is. And that was something that I just wanted to shout out all the people trolling on it and shut out all the people just going way overboard in the other direction.

And it was everybody in the middle who were genuine about it that I really appreciated it the most. What I'm hearing is that you became a side quest NPC for them. Yeah. And I feel like that's what happens to a lot of streamers. you become a character in people's lives rather than a person. That's something I've always strived to deal with personally, but also remind people that I am a human underneath everything,

and I'm not some weird character in your sort of fantasy. I'm not an anime for you to watch and fawn over all the time. Fawn over. I'm trying to increase my lexicon. I'm watching a lot of Ludwig. Yeah, so how, okay. So can we actually just go back to, you know, you said you took some time off last year to try to figure out who you are and what you wanted. Can we talk about that?

Yeah, sure. Can you tell me about that? Yeah, I think for a long time, I was, I experienced some like really shitty years on my channel and then sort of going through the motions and you kind of hit this, well, perceived peak of what you want to do and what you want to accomplish. and it's all about growth, growth, growth, all the time and satisfying your audience. And then you kind of get to a point where that hits its peak. And you kind of feel burnt out and you're doing the same thing. And I felt like I kind of became a caricature of myself,

that I do these things and then people respond to certain aspects of it. So I just double down on those because that's what people react to. Yep. And doing that for so long and getting into that cycle, I just kind of got tired of my own shit. And I was making stuff that I wasn't fulfilled by my audience could tell. they were just showing up because it was the same time every day. Like, it's like the same reason people watch one piece for so long.

They're sort of in denial about how long it's going on and how samey it is after a while. I can't get into it, man. Yeah, I just got into Naruto and I'm trying to like hold out on that. And that's a, that's a bear to take on as well. It is. It is. I've been working on Naruto now for, who, probably about 15 years. And, you know, one episode at a time. Yeah, but one piece is a completely different mountain to climb.

Yeah. Yeah, just going through those motions for a while and then wondering where I kind of fit in with myself. And then at this big moment where I thought, well, can I exist outside of my channel and outside of my numbers and outside of this perception of what people think of me? And who even am I beyond Jack Septuagai anymore? Does me as a person as Sean even exist or the two so melded together that I can't differentiate them anymore? And I took a month off to kind of, I thought I was going to quit. I thought I was done with everything because I just, I kind of got tired of doing the same stuff over and over again. I took a lot of time.

I got into like stoicism and read up on a lot of books about like Marcus Aurelius and things like that and how to deal with just yourself and how to deal with other people in a healthier way. And it helped me a lot. And I started to come to some realizations after reflecting for a while that I can exist as both. And I just need to take the right amount of time for each and set healthy boundaries for each. And now trying to get over kind of the perceptions of what other people think about me versus how I actually act based on that feedback and realizing that I can't live my life for everybody else. The feedback they were giving me, I realized that I would react to that and then try and do that and correct everything that was going wrong according to them.

Sure. And so I wasn't really living for me anymore. I was kind of living for what other people wanted me to do. And then it was just so many different voices, so many different opinions that I couldn't accurately do what everybody wanted because that's just impossible. So it's something that I've kind of dealt with for a long time as kind of being a people pleaser and trying to get over that.

Hmm. Do you want help with that? Sure. So how long have you been a people pleaser? Probably my whole life. I think because I'm the youngest in my family and I have two older brothers and two older sisters. I think that I was always sort of the, when everything's got tense, I feel like I was sort of the comic relief of the family to try and break tension. Yeah.

And make sure that everybody's okay. But I think doing it my whole life, I think I started to realize that I didn't value myself anymore. I didn't care about my own opinions. I just cared about what other people thought about me. And I've gotten a lot better at it over the last year. but I think there's still, every now and then something will happen and it'll kind of like hit that nerve in me that I need to kind of like get over again. I don't know. It's a bizarre thing. Yeah. So let's learn about that.

Sure. What is the nerve? What is the nerve that they hit? Just worrying that I've upset somebody or haven't met somebody's standards or haven't given somebody a good time. Because it's never been about me. it's always been about, is somebody else having a good time? Yeah. And getting into this job, I think, having so many other people to try and please after a certain point, you realize that you can't please everybody, which is also cliche and obvious.

And people say it all the time, but it's so hard to actually do. So, Jack, are you okay if I like a take a cup? So first, this is fantastic. I'm really happy to be having this conversation. I think it makes me so happy when, so I spent many years like studying this stuff formally. And I think it is the coolest thing in the world when I meet someone who just through personal reflection has like understood so much of like what I spent like time studying. And it really just makes me, it reinforces in my mind that like there is no substitute for personal reflection and that you can read all the books in the world. but ultimately all of the knowledge that you need is actually like within you,

which sounds cliche too. And so if it's okay with you, what I'd like to do is, I think one of the things I can do to help you on your journey is just to expand your lexicon and kind of tie like sort of button down a few like different kinds of concepts and nuances, which I think you already understand, but may not have language for. And I think it'll help you become more versatile and like dealing with these things.

and understanding these things. Let's go. So the first is that in Sanskrit, there are two words for knowledge. One is Vidya, which gets translated as objective knowledge, and is also like information and transmissible. Okay. And then the second is Nyan, which is subjective knowledge, not transmissible. And oddly enough, in the West, we tend to value Vidya over Nyan.

Like, we tend to say that unless, you know, you can prove it to me. So science is all about Vidya, for example. So, like, science is about knowledge that other people can gain from your efforts. But yogis, and I would dare say Marcus Aurelius, valued Nyan more than Vidya. And what they realize is that ultimately subjective knowledge is superior to objective knowledge. Okay. And so, you know, when you say, like, this. stuff sounds really cliche, but this is where I would call Vidya information and Nyan

understanding. And so we can say cliche things and they sound cliche, but that's from a Vidya perspective. But once you understand them from a Nyan perspective, they actually start to shape your actions and shape your thoughts. Instead of being like a fact that is philosophically or intellectually or logically true, it becomes like a reality in your mind, which then alters the course of your life. Okay. And so what I'd really like to explore with you is I think you've gained a lot of Nyan over the last year or two and sort of like exploring kind of what that is and what you've discovered. But that's just what do you think about those kind of that differentiation of knowledge between these two types? I think it makes a lot of sense because I think well maybe

I maybe I'm not right in saying this but I feel like the stuff that I've sort of gotten into over the last year, year and a half is sort of more on the spiritual side of things. I can tell. I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get in touch with that stuff because I've always been like a very scientific minded person. I'm not like the smartest at it,

but I always love the sort of like machinations of how things work. And especially people, I love seeing how people take how they work. I love observing like body language and how people react the way they react. But that's all. Maybe that's like the objective side of things. And I really like getting into sort of the weeds of how people's brains work and why everybody's different, but the same and things like that. So I think what I've just, I think I've sort of broadened my mind in the last year to realize that I can't control everything.

And the reason I react certain ways to certain things is because of the value systems that I've kind of put on them. And then somebody breaches those value systems in my mind. And so then that's bad and you shouldn't do that. But what I've started to get better at is realize that just do whatever the fuck you want. Who am I to tell you or to react that way? Like, just go live your life and I live my life. And hopefully we meet somewhere in the middle. Yeah.

So I love the way that you talked about value systems and how. So other, I have a feeling we're going to cover a lot of terminology today. Okay. So this is also where like Buddha, Buddha, talked about something called duke, which is suffering. It's the Sanskrit word for suffering. And what he said is that the root of suffering is actually attachment to expectation. And so what I'm hearing from you is that, you know, someone would do something.

And then it's the value system that you impose upon it that causes you the suffering. Right. And so it's a really radical way to look at life because what that sort of posits, is that suffering or contentment is like actually yours to control. And that when we let other people, when we, when we, so far, I mean, most people actually seed control over their well-being to the people around them because they fall into those value systems. Right. And when you start to step away from those things or notice that your reactions to the thing is actually what causes you the suffering, that's when people start to move towards. this concept called enlightenment,

which is sort of the stepwise process of eventually getting to the point where, like, you have essentially no reactions. As a scientist, I'll also kind of differentiate for a moment that Dhukha is different from pleasure and pain. So you can still experience pleasure and pain, both with duk. But it sort of operates on a different axis.

It's not like the same thing. Okay. So it's not that you're, impervious to pain, it's that you're impervious to suffering if you become enlightened. But if you imagine if you're enlightened and you give childbirth, like you have childbirth, you'll still be in a shitload of pain. Right. So any thoughts about that concept or how that relates to kind of your self-reflections?

Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense. I think sort of the way I was a while ago was that, And I think this sort of falls into the parosocial side of things as well, that I've, I did things for a certain amount of time. And then so many people told me that I was right or I was smart or you do this, but this other person does this. And you're so much better than them for doing it this way that I feel like that sort of worm got in my brain a while back. And it was as much as it is praising me. And it's great at the time. And it's a compliment.

It was putting down the other person and it essentially built me on this platform higher than they were in their brain. and I feel like for me, after a while of hearing that, I couldn't really tell what it was doing to me anymore. And I started to realize both extremes of like the negative and positive spectrum can influence your brain in negative ways. I think, yeah, I was about to say, I think you may not have known what that worm was doing to. By the way, there's a Sanskrit word for that worm too. What is it? A humgata. Okay.

I'm going to forget all of these words. So Ahamkara is technically translated as the eye feeling. So it's the feeling of like I. I am dot dot dot. Oh, I thought you said like eyeball eye. Oh, no. And it gets loosely translated. The closest word that we have in English is ego.

Right. But it's not just ego. So like the Ahamkara has a couple of like interesting attributes. anything that compares you to another person is a humkar, is the eye feeling. Okay. And so the other key thing, you know, if you listen to Buddha, is that a humkhar, even though it makes you feel pleasure, is always going to be a source of duke. Okay. What do you think about that?

Yeah, that makes sense. Yep. Like I said, I think you understand all this stuff. I'm just going to give you terminology for it today. Well, it's good to reaffirm it as well, Lincoln. kind of hear it again, so you kind of stay on the path. And I think that your neon is very, very clear to me because you used the word worm, right? And so this is like, it's such a beautiful word for a humkart.

Because it kind of like burrows in and you don't really notice its negative effects. And as you pointed out, you feel good in the moment, right? Like it's pleasing for your ego. And then like, but once it like kind of burrows in, like it starts like doing this weird kind of damage. Yeah. Like you know what I mean? Oh yeah, for sure. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Well, I was going to say, I feel like it happens to a lot of people in this industry. And the self-awareness kind of evaporates after a while and the humility kind of disappears.

A lot of times through no fault of their own, because a lot of people just tell you that you're amazing. And when you become successful at doing that and people tell you you're amazing, you tend to think that your way is right. and then any sort of criticism or any sort of feedback becomes an attack. And then I found myself getting very defensive about things in the past. Maybe not publicly, but definitely when somebody said something about me online, it's like, well, who do they think they are? And then it's like, wait, why am I reacting that way? Yes. It's not a good way of reacting to things.

So I'm going to tunnel down into that for a moment. So a criticism becomes an attack. So what I want you to notice there is a criticism is directed at who, or at what, I should say. I mean, for me, it would have been at Jack Septuagai and not me as a person. Sort of exactly, right? So like, like, and I think that's the attack part. So what I was going to say is that someone can criticize, let's say, a piece of content that you make. Right.

But when the Humkar is strong, it's not, you don't, you take that attack on your content. and it turns into an attack on you. Right? Like, does that make sense? Yep. Like, they're not actually criticizing you as a person, but when the Ahamqad is strong, you sort of like taunt their agro and then like it's pointed to you as a person.

And that's why they use Ahamqad as the eye feeling. So if you think about it, you know, you inject yourself into their criticism. Yeah. Which is good. So it seems like you've learned how to not, do that. Yeah, I mean, it crops up every now and then, but I think I've gotten a lot better at like ego checking myself and kind of stopping that trail of thought before it becomes like,

I remember in the past, it would be a lot of like, I need to tweet out something and tell everybody because this one person online said something. So then I ended up thinking that everybody was saying this about me. Or if four people said it, then it's like, well, everybody's talking about that now. And then you have to like respond to it. But I, I think I've gotten a lot better at just not responding to it and letting it kind of just sit in the ether. And realizing that, because it became this weird thing where Jack Septuagai became this like being outside of me and outside the audience. It was like everybody was watching this other entity that I didn't even have control over anymore because the community kind of took it upon itself to build it into whatever they wanted to. And in some ways, that was good.

But I think the feeling of me as a person separate from that kind of evaporated. Yeah. So this is where, just to give you once again, a little bit of a structure, which, you know, isn't true. It's just for you to consider way against your experience. And then you be the scientist and conclude what you want to. So one is that a humkar in self-awareness or at opposite ends of a spectrum. Okay. So the more egotistical you become, the less self-aware you become.

And furthermore, that I think your awareness at one point was completely absorbed in the identity of Jack Septuic Eye and that you felt a lot of suffering at that time. And the more that you've been able to externalize Jack Septic Eye, the more you've been able to separate who you are from the character, I think the more at peace you'll become. Yeah, for sure. What do you think about that? Okay. I think there was a lot of, there was a lot of fear in the past of separat. them because then a lot of people tend to think that, oh, well, what you're doing is Jackseptych the guy is fake then because it's a character that you're playing. And essentially it is because it's a persona. It's like the best version of me that I want to show the world. And it's me in my zone

and it's me going to work and doing what I do. And I always worried that if I talked about separating them and setting more boundaries, that people wouldn't think of what I was doing as genuine anymore, which it obviously is. I don't think I could do this for this long and be this excited about what I do if it was all an act. And so I know this is going to sound weird, but where does that fear come from?

I don't know. So that comes from the Ahamkar too. Because if you think about it, what are you afraid of? You're afraid of how they will perceive you. Do you see that? Yeah. And so like all that crap

always comes back to the Ahamakar. Okay. How they will see you. And so like, it's sort of like you were afraid of separating from the humkhar because then, like, they would see you a particular way. But that fear is a humkart. Does that make sense? Yep. And so it's weird because like it fears for itself.

It fears for the dissolution of itself. It warns you against abandoning it. Okay. What do you think about that? Could you go into it a little bit more? Yeah. So like, I know it sounds kind of weird, but you know, you are afraid of what people would think of you. Right.

But that thought in and of itself. So like the reason you're not separating from your, like Jack Septu, there's Jack Septic Eye and then there's the real you, right? And when you were thinking about separating the real you from Jack Septic Eye, something in your mind warned you against it. And it said, Jack, don't do that. Because if you do, if you separate. the ego from your true self, then what will people say about you? They will say you are not genuine. But that thought in and of itself is coming from the Aham God. Right. So it's sort of like, you know, an abusive person telling you not to break up with them because you'll always be alone.

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. It's getting kind of weird and abstract, but like it's just interesting that, you know, I think a lot of your thoughts, the more that we tunnel down into this, I think a lot of what is going to have kept you trapped is going to be that, um, God, like a lot of your burn out and stuff. Yeah, for sure. Any questions so far? No, I think you've been very good at explaining things. How do you feel about the direction of this conversation? It's great.

I love it. Okay. This is the shit that I live for. Okay. Yeah, I think, like I was saying earlier, sometimes people will sort of have an expectation that if someone has gone through something like losing a parent, like we're going to, you know, cry and talk about your dad and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, I'm sorry to disappoint, which I know once again is like what people come to Dr. K to see. And so even right now, I have a

little bit of a struggle within me about, oh, should I ask him about things that are like deeply emotional and then, oh, Jack, accept a guy is going to cry. And then it's going to be a really good moment. Everyone's going to love it. And there's going to be lots of hearts in chat. You'll get your clickbait. Yeah, absolutely, right? And so sometimes what we have to do is like not giving into that thing, even though that may lead to more growth. But what are we here for? We're not here for growth. Yeah, that's one of the things that I,

I think a lot of the burnout that I felt about my own channel was also feeling burnout against other creators at the same time. I think it was like burnout against the system in a way. The way certain people react to the way the system works, like the algorithm or whatever terminology you want to use for it, that I think a lot of people show a certain version of themselves but then when it gets down to it,

it's a very insular sort of thing that's happening on YouTube all the time is that everybody's kind of fighting for themselves and if they have a chance to get more views out of something, they'll go for that. And for a while it felt like everyone was kind of like climbing over each other. Of course, not everybody's like that. There are some very good, genuine, kind-hearted people there

who are just there to have fun. And I've tried to sort of, with them and kind of magnetize myself towards them more and get surrounded by those types of people. But I think it's just something that no one really wants to talk about how everyone's kind of like fighting each other just to get to the top. And then it's like you get to the top. It's like, well, what's there? Like, what are you aiming for?

It feels like this sort of idea of growth is kind of leading people to nowhere that you get to the top. And then what happens? You kind of sacrifice friendships or you sacrifice. personal health and mental health and your own time away from everything and everybody's so entrapped in their work and always on and working for themselves constantly all the time. Why do you think that people get trapped by the idea of growth? I think just the metrics that were shown all the time kind of do it and the audience kind

of reaffirming that like, oh, you're dropping off. Well, last time you got this many views on something, well, this time you're getting less or this person did the game and they got X number and you did it and you got Y number like they're so much better and then people have a fear of they have a fear if they don't stay on this treadmill constantly that they're just going to fall off and they can never get back onto it again

and that everyone's going to forget about them and I've tried to like I've had a bunch of friends especially after I took that break who came to me and talked about it I was like no it's the best thing you can do like no one's going to leave you if some people will and that's fine you're going to have to just deal with that but I feel like the people

who are actually genuinely there to just have fun and watch your content are the people who kind of stick around. And for me, that was kind of a hard hurdle to get over as well. Because I used to do two videos every single day for like five years. And I never missed an upload time.

It was always the same time every day and I was so proud of it. But then I became the guy who was uploading at the exact same time and I was just so consistent and I worked so hard. And then I realized that I didn't really want to be that guy and just work for the sake of having that title.

And there was more important things outside of that, again, needing to realize if I could exist outside of that work ethic. How did you realize what was important? I don't know. I think I just physically and mentally got exhausted first and then started questioning things. And then being in like a really healthy relationship now that kind of gives me the support and really wanting to spend time in that. and swim around in that relationship and enjoy it and have fun with it and just kind of like hang out and do things together meant a lot more to me. Because when I started off my channel, it was like trying to find that sort of family or that sort of relationship. So I dealt, I dove head first into that parissocial aspect of it where I crave that sort of attention from people because it was like finally, like minded people who hang out with me and we all do the same sort of thing.

And we can all, it kind of felt like a bunch of friends were showing up each and every day. and then realizing that that that sort of feeling and that sort of happiness was never going to come from an external source and the other people that I had to sort of find it within me. And I watched a really nice video about like Buddhism on like a TED talk where they talked about like, well, why are you happy? I was like, well, this happened today. And you realize, well, that thing made you happy and that's not a consistent source of happiness that you can't have that same thing every single day. So you need to find a better way of having consistent internal happiness to try and like, I'm butchering it. But it was that idea of finding more inner peace. And I think a lot of people sort of rolled their eyes at that, but that was like fascinating to me.

Why do you say you're butchering it? Because I feel like they just had such a magical way with words. And I feel like synopsizing it didn't do it justice. Because it has such a profound impact on me when I heard it that I would like people to hear it the same way and potentially have the same reaction. So this is where we get subtle, so that's a really wonderful thing. And at the same time, what are you doing to the words that you say? Devaluing them? Yep.

And you're comparing them to the TED Talk. Right. There it is again. You see how good they are at explaining Buddhism and how bad I am. There's the Aham God. So, Jack, if you really want people to hear it, I can guarantee you that what you said was like beautifully explained. and the only thing that got in the way,

because you know this, right? Like, why do you think that the person giving the TED talk understands it better than you do? True. And so the only thing that's getting in the way is your own ego. Right. So if you've learned something and you have something to share with the world, because I know you understand this, then just fucking share it.

And for the people that are in the frame of mind to hear it and are ready to hear it, they'll hear it. And for the people that aren't ready to hear it, they won't hear it. But that, like, you can't control that, right? All you can control is what you put out there. Yeah, that's true. Now, if you want to, if you want to get, like, psychological and all that kind of stuff, then we've got to talk about this whole, like, craving attention and family and parissocial

relationships. But that's going to be a slight... Let's go, baby. Okay, it's going to be a different tone, okay? I'm going to ask you, like, personal questions about feelings and shit like that. It's going to be more of what people, you know, come here to see. Sure. Okay.

So tell me about your family growing up. We had a pretty big family. So there was seven of us total. My dad was an older man. He was in his 80s when he passed. So he would have been 85 this year. So he was much, much older than I was. So there was always this sort of generational gap.

to things. And I think my brothers and my, especially my oldest sister, they, I feel like they had a stronger relationship with him growing up because he was just more present. He was there. He, he was in sort of like his prime years, so to speak. So they always had some sort of connection, whether it be negative or positive. There was, there was at least some sort of like emotional attachment there. That sounds kind of sad. Yeah, I've often told people that neither of my parents have never verbalized that they love me in a way. And it's the thing that I can tell that they did. And my dad has always talked about how he was proud of the stuff that I'm doing, especially now.

And I could tell that he always worked for his family. And he definitely deeply cared. It's just he's an older Irish man from a different generation. So he just can't verbalize things. Can't verbalize his thoughts, his dreams, his goals. And I feel like that was sort of the legacy that I wanted to bring with me to sort of like be that person for him in a way while also learning from that experience. How do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? Because I wonder about like his goals and his aspirations and his dreams and if he saw enough of the world and if he met enough people or if he, I don't know, I just hope that he had fulfilling experiences in his life.

And I feel like for me, having seen stuff like that and somebody who just works all the time and works really hard and for a good purpose, I want to make sure that I'm just not working all the time. I want to make sure that I take the time to let people know that I love them and to share my feelings and to openly talk about things and keep up with my family and make sure that I'm seeing parts of the world that I want to, instead of putting it on the back burner and realizing, oh, there will be time for that later. I want to make sure that I'm not just working myself to the bone doing what I do here for the sake of what other people expect me to do. And that, hey, I might take a month off every now and then and go do whatever the hell I want to do. Sounds like you've become acutely aware of the value of time. Yeah, probably through some unfortunate circumstances and having to go through kind of a marathon. emotionally to get there, but I feel like, I feel like the sort of emotional strength I've come away with has definitely been worth it. And I've definitely matured emotionally a lot over the last, like,

year or so. Yeah. You seem like an absolute beast, man. I was watching, I don't know about that. I was watching you play Bloodborn and one-shot things with the Worley gig saw. Like, oh, hell yeah. It was the first time I had seen your stream, and I think the only time I've seen your stream. Wow. And I was surprised because, like, what happened is I, someone recommended Bloodbourne to me in my channel because I was looking for something to play. Good shout out. Yeah, it was fantastic. And so then I was like, oh, like, let me just see, you know, if anyone's playing Bloodbourne.

Because, like, you know, the game is like five years old now or something, right? Mm-hmm. And I saw you just one-shotting things. And that's what I think you're doing today. You're just like one-shoting shit, like left and right, bro. Well, I'll take that your words. Any day of the week. So tell me a little bit about, so.

So how old was your dad when you were born? Late 50s. Okay. And how much older are your siblings? My oldest sister is mid-40s. And my other brothers are in their 40s. I think one of them is about to hit 40 or is 40. I'm bad at my family's ages.

That still means that your dad, it sounds like, was 40 when he had his first child. Yeah. Okay. And how old is your ballpark? How old is your mom? Like about the same age? No, she's 20 years younger than him. So there's a massive age difference between them as well. And you said your dad was 50 when you were born? In late 50s, yeah. Late 50s. Okay. So then your mom was late 30s when you were born?

About that, yeah. Mid to late 30s. And what do you remember about kind of like growing up? I remember that my dad had retired when I was at a young age. It's like one of the earlier memories I have of him retiring and they gave him a lamp for retiring. Like here's years of servitude. Here's a fucking lamp. And I remember the party for that and I was taking pictures of it on like pre-digital photographs. And I remember it was the first time I ever got to have like a camera in my hand and I got to take pictures of things.

took about 40 pictures of this fucking lamp that were all pointless and useless and really badly shot. I would love to say that I had like Spielberg's eye at a young age, but I didn't. But I remember that vividly. I don't know why. I think it was just a turning point and kind of realizing how much older my dad was than everybody else or everybody else's dad's because he was retiring and theirs wasn't. And I remember then when he was retired, he would always,

He was like the stay at home dad then. I would go to school and when I come home, he would always cook me my dinner. And he was always the person who was there. It was just me and him in the house for like a couple of hours after school every day. And I think that those were a lot more formative for me than I realized at the time. So having him cook me dinner every day was always something that I now greatly appreciated. Realizing kind of like all the hard work he did growing up.

And when he was retired, was still taking care of me. And then, like, 10 years or so ago when we moved and it was just kind of like us, to cut a long story short, I lived in a log cabin in the middle of the woods for like four years. And my parents lived in one as well. So I would cook them dinner every day. Sort of like the cycle kind of like continued at that point. And I kind of took care of them every day.

But I always remember him doing that for me when I was a kid. what are you feeling right now good it's nice to remember the good things that happened with my dad and kind of recalling all of these memories that i didn't realize were kind of like in my brain and then when something like this happens and you're i want to reminisce and i want to remember and think about him fondly it was like oh yeah these were all great times and that we we had some good years what would you cook what would he cook you for dinner he would cook me like potato waffles. I don't know if many people outside of like UK, Ireland or whatever would have those and like fish fingers, which you guys would call fish sticks. And he would cook me that every day and I would just have a big blob of ketchup on the side of the plate. And I would always say that I went to my friend's house at one point and they, his mother cooked shit fish fingers. And I was like, no, my dad's the best of cooking them. You don't, you don't know what you're doing. And what would what would you make for them when you all lived in the log cabin? Main favorite was like lasagna.

I would always cook a mean lasagna and they love that. But then when I was trying to like get healthier and like bulk up and work out and all that kind of stuff in my early 20s, I would cook them like just really healthy like stir fries and like just try and cut out as much fat and try and take care of them as much as possible. Because I feel like they were just very indulgent. It's just it's easy to do that. How did they feel about that? I don't think my mother liked it too much because. To her, I was taking out a lot of the flavor, but I think my dad liked it. Yeah.

That's wonderful. How did you guys wind up? And, you know, I know you'd mentioned earlier that there are particular boundaries you want to keep in terms of what's private and what isn't. You know, you'd mention that you were pretty happy with what you shared in terms of the YouTube video about your dad. So if I ask anything that it feels off limits to you, just let me know. And we don't have to, you don't have to answer, okay? Sure. I find myself curious, though.

How does, you know, how do you wind up in a log cabin with your parents? for four years. Or it sounds like you guys had separate log cabins. Yeah, it was weird. We sold our house and then we moved because my mother wanted

to get closer to her mother. So we moved in like next door because she was in her later years as well. So we moved like log cabins at the time sounded like fancy and it sounded like a nice dream sort of getaway sort of thing.

Everyone thinks that they want us to live in a log cabin in the woods. That shit is cold. You do not want to live in one of those. Yeah. Oh, I'm with you. I think it's wonderful to spend a weekend in a log cabin.

Oh, yeah. I don't know about living there. No, it was tough. It's like, I mean, I guess a lot of Texans can relate right now is that my pipes would freeze every winter and that ice would like come up to the insides of the walls all the time. So we had to get like a stronger heater for the cabin to kind of like make sure I didn't get hypothermia. Yeah. For like a year, it was really, really rough with the cold and. I think that's where I kind of, I realized that I didn't want to like this.

I didn't want that to be my life. I didn't want that to be like what I did all day, every day. And that's kind of where I started my YouTube channel, maybe out of spite of that sort of living arrangement. Can you tell us a little bit about what inspired you to start making content on YouTube? I watched a lot of YouTube back in the day. I watched, I was playing Battlefield 3 a lot back then. And I had just got a gaming PC for the first time when I was like 21. and I was fascinated by it.

I was like, how are people so good at this? And how are they so quick? And I can't even like figure out how to move the mouse without taking it off the thing. And I felt like such an old man. And then I happen upon a channel called Level Cap Gaming, who still makes content, a really nice guy. And he, I was watching him a lot. And then one time he mentioned that he did it as a job. That kind of blew my mind open.

And I never, like, intended to start doing it as a job. It was never my goal. But I thought, man, people do this like full time. that's so cool. I was like, I wonder what that's like to do. And I kind of got into it. And I was like, well, I'm playing games all day anyway. It would be cool to learn how to edit and talk over them.

And I've always kind of been fascinated by like acting and showmanship and things like that. And maybe being the baby of the family, I loved being the center of attention at one point in my life. Yeah. But I kind of got into it that way. You keep mentioning being the baby of the family. Can you tell me a little bit about what that was like for you? I don't know quite what that means, but you kind of, you know, you'll attribute many things that you say to being the baby of the family. Right.

I think it was just something I was told a lot growing up because I was always like a miniature version of other members of my family rather than being my own person. I mean, me and my, the brother closest to me were really, really alike when I was growing up. So I was always called the younger version of him. and I think being the baby of the family my voice kind of got drowned out a lot when family gatherings would happen so I kind of like fought to have my place at the table I think that's why I've always been good at sort of

talking and like a lot of my humours very quick and things like that I was trying to like if I said something loud and quick and clever then I would be heard more than everybody else and that feeling of like cutting the room with laughter was always something really fun when I was a kid. It sounds like you learned how to be a character at quite a young age.

I guess so, yeah. And that you had to be a character to be noticed. Oh, now we're getting into some shit, aren't we? I warned you. Oh, no. I guess so. I never thought about it like that. Right?

I mean, but that's what I'm hearing. That's fascinating. Yeah. That's what I'm hearing from myself now, now that I say it. Yep. Cool. Cool. I think it's, again, it's fascinating.

This is the stuff that I love, like, figuring out and realizing, oh, that's where certain things come from. And I didn't realize I was doing that back then. Yeah, that absolutely makes a lot of sense now. Yeah. I think you were Jack's, Jack Septic Eye long before you created a YouTube account. No, probably most likely, yeah. He's buried somewhere. Yeah.

Well, I don't know about buried. It sounds to me like he's, I was out in the open from a young age. True. And just to also kind of telegraph where this could go, I think as we explore some of who you've become, Jack, there may be certain things that we'll talk about, which could paint things in a possible negative light. Sure. Okay. So if you feel that way, it's not really my intention to paint things in a negative light. But in my experience, you know, kind of like you said, you know, things are getting serious.

Like, why did you feel like that was a serious comment? I think it's just because it sounds so psychological to put a pin in it that way. It's like, oh, okay. It's like those psychologists, like, sort of like twist that you see in movies all the time. It's like, I used to always make that joke. People would say, I had a dream last night that I ate marshmallows for eight hours. I'm like, what does that say about you and your father a lot? And I would always just make that joke.

So hearing it that way is kind of, it's very profound and I kind of like that sort of stuff. Sure. So that's a moment of neon. Okay. Does that make sense? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. So that's what we shoot for is because that's understanding.

And then that's going to like, you know, it's not just a bit of information. That's the light bulb going off, something landing. So because here's the concern that I have is if we sort of say that you had to be funny, to be noticed. Sure. What that also sort of means is that you kind of weren't, you weren't given, you had to like kind of elbow your way in. Mm-hmm.

You know, and so what that could imply is that like people didn't give you an opportunity to speak. Because generally speaking, you think about, you know, the lower you are on the totem pole, like the more support you need from loving people to, you know, get a seat at the table. Do you feel like we're being judgmental or anything? Are you kind of getting that kind of flip side of the argument at all? No, I mean, I can see why it's perceived judgment. But if anything, it's bettering me as a person and it's helping me understand more about why I am the way I am.

And I kind of like that. And it also reaffirms a lot of stuff that even these days, if I'm talking in a group and people don't hear me, it's not that I feel like I'm important. listen to what I'm saying. It's just I don't like that feeling of being talked over, which I imagine a lot of people don't. But I feel like that's, I know, it hits upon a lot of things that I think are very relevant to me as a person even today that I'm trying to like, I'm trying to undo or trying to come to terms with and be better about and form healthier habits with. And I feel like you can't do that unless you get into the weeds of it all. How does it feel to be talked over?

awful especially when well in this day and age it's like buffering issues and internet issues and all that kind of thing it's like you get talked over anyway just because the sound kind of cuts out and whatnot in conference calls but it's

I just I think that's where my devaluing people talk over you it shit stop doing it I feel like That's where my devaluing of my own opinions come from. Because when I get talked over, then I just kind of like shut down and then I stop giving my opinion on things. Okay.

So do you remember times growing up where people didn't respect your opinion and talked over you? Not that I can vividly recall. There's nothing that really stands out to me. I feel like maybe I like said a joke and no one heard it. And that kind of was like, oh man, I thought. That was a good one. But nothing where I had anything of like profoundness to say. And then somebody talked over and it kind of like defeated me.

Now, at least nothing comes to mind right now. Sure, sure, sure. That makes sense. I think the real tricky thing there is that, you know, if you were devalued, then in retrospect, you may not think it was profound. Probably, yeah. Right? It's kind of weird. I think that's a very Irish way of speaking that if you're not heard, everyone says, well, it wasn't important then.

Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so what was it like having a dad who was like significantly older? Did you kind of feel like, because it sounds like you noticed that things were different compared to your friends and stuff like that. Yeah, I think I just hearing my friends talk about their dads being at work, I couldn't really relate to that at the time. And also you get a slight bit of ridiculing growing up.

I wouldn't say I was like bullied about it or anything. But definitely when people hear it, it's like, oh, it's always like a point. point of conversation. It's always something that people feel like they have to like, yeah, they have to like poke further into to try and understand because it's so foreign to them for that. But for me, that was my normality. But hearing that it wasn't normal was like, well, what's, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with my family? Why is everyone reacting to that? Do you remember when you started, how old you were when you started being concerned about your opinion not being taken seriously and taught, being talked over?

I think it was more in my teenage years probably because I think those were very formative years for anybody and trying to figure out who you are in the world and trying to put your stamp on it which I mean nobody ever does when they're a teenager it's like a weird fallacy that everybody talks about because you're taught I saw that in school like you need to know who you are going into college

and you need to know like the rest of your life is being set up right now what are you going to be what are you going to do I don't fucking know I just want to play metal gear solid and collect Yu-Gi-o cards. Yeah. It sounds like you didn't know exactly who you were going to be when you grew up. I mean, this didn't exist back then, so no. Yeah, but you were still you.

I think that's cool, right? Anyway, I was just, you know, I was just thinking it was kind of ironic because you're like, I don't know who I am and that's actually exactly who you were. You knew exactly who you were. Well, yeah, because you didn't realize you could be that. Yeah, that's against the norm at the time. At the time, it's like, whether you grow up, work in a factory, you slave away, you get your two weeks every year, you get married, you have

kids, like it's so burrowed into your head that from everybody else's experience. And in Ireland especially, it's like you, you work to get drunk at the weekend, and that's it. That's what everybody's lives were. Everybody starts in a small town and everyone stays in a small town. You could go back 20 years later and they're all still there. And a lot of them are, I mean, I shouldn't generalize, but a lot of them are kind of stuck in the same sort of jobs and stuck in the same cycles as their parents. And I think I was always determined to not do that. Especially being in the world of video games, I always saw so much more of the world.

Like, oh, there's Japanese game devs and like, what are they doing? And like, oh, American game releases are like earlier than ours. Like, what's that about? That sort of like knowledge door was opened at a very young age. And I feel like, because Ireland is very heavily religious. I remember being 12 years old and like rejecting that. And being like, no, I don't believe in any of that. I'm not going to church every weekend anymore.

And it was always sort of this sort of defiance against culture. And I think that, I mean, you might not know this, but when I started off my channel, I didn't talk in my regular voice. I had like a weird sort of Americanization pronunciation of everything because that was how I spoke clearly. And everybody I watched kind of spoke like that. And to try and speak clearly, I changed my accent because I thought, well, if I sound different than everyone's going to notice that. Sounds like you've been on a long journey to become yourself. Oh, yeah. That's why anybody watching this right now, if you're in your 20s and everyone's like, time to figure out who you are in college.

You're not going to figure that out that quick. It's like, well, at least I didn't. Maybe some of you will if you're emotionally incredibly mature and have a great functioning life. But I didn't. I barely know who I am a 31 years old. I feel like it's going to take me until I'm 40 before I'm like actually very comfortable with doing whatever I want to do. Yeah, it was interesting because I think those people do exist. You know, when I was training to become a psychiatrist, I was surprised by how many people I was surrounded by, like, who knew exactly who they were going to be for a very long time.

Did they or were they just pretending that they? No, that's the thing. I think they knew a long time. Yeah. And- Lucky them. I'm not so sure that they're lucky. I don't know that they're luckier.

I think that's a value judgment that we place that knowing who you are earlier is better. but I don't necessarily think so. Facts. But I'm curious, what happened when you told people that you were not interested in going to church? My mother didn't like it. My dad, well, my parents have always been like really good to let me do what I do almost to a fault at some point. I'm sure we can come back to that in a bit. But it was always just something that everybody did.

My friends were always, like, jealous that I didn't have to go anymore. Because I mean, as a kid, I didn't really care about any of it. I would be an altar boy sometimes just so I didn't have to go to church and sit down the same way all the time. It's like, well, at least now I have something to do at church. Yeah. I can ring a bell or hand a collection plate to somebody. But when I was younger, I don't know why I vividly remember going around the field at the back of my house. I was just like walking around as kids do.

And I just had this like profound point in my head where I was like, I don't believe in any of this. and then I started like questioning everything and that sort of like scientific side of me kicked in where I wanted to just like question the world and the universe and I don't know my mother didn't like it and she was like don't tell your grandmother because my grandmother was hyper religious and I never had any sort of like animosity towards

anybody who did believe I'm like that's fine even at a young age I was like that's fine you can still believe that if you want if I'm wrong I'm wrong it's just not for me so it sounds like overall people sort of were pretty accepting of that. I think so, yeah. Weirdly. Yeah, because what I'm really hearing is that your mom wasn't concerned

that your soul would wind up in eternal hellfire. She was more concerned than your grandmother would find out. Which is actually sort of a tacit acceptance of your police, right? Right. It's like you don't, yeah. I feel like a lot of my family were into the religious side of things as a sort of, sort of like a transcendental sort of meditative, of life, like knowing that there was something there and doing prayer and everything was a very like calming thing for them to do and gave them a sense of purpose and everything. And I feel like

that that's, that's fine to do that. I never, I didn't get that aspect out of it. And my grandmother, I think, definitely got that in her later years. And it was something to like keep her company and give her sort of peace of mind every day. And I think that that's kind of nice. Yeah. So I think at that point, it doesn't matter if it's real or not. It was real for her. So it doesn't matter. I was kind of fishing around a little bit there because I'm going to be sniffing around for, you know, moments where you felt devalued and talked over and, you know, sort of coming out as being agnostic or atheistic in a Catholic household would be, you know, kind of prime time for being disrespected and undervalued. but I'm not really hearing that at all. Yeah. I think Ireland was in sort of a transitional period at that point

where the church kind of rule everything versus government. And I think in the 90s to early 2000s, it kind of shifted very drastically. So right now I have a pretty clear intention just in my head and I want to share that with you and you let me know if that's good or not, which is that I'm going to try to help you understand a little bit about this devaluing business and being talked over. Sure. And in order to do that, I think what we need to do is access that emotion, like a little bit more rawly. If you can't, in a raw format, what I mean, if you can't think of any time during your teenage years when you really felt like you were talked over or people didn't listen, then that's okay. Then what I'm going to ask you, is there a time recently that you sort of really felt that way and it bothered you?

I think just doing, because I've been doing a lot more like larger multiplayer sessions with people. And I feel like just the nature of like I said, the way the internet buffering and everything is sometimes what you say can get lost. And I think sometimes it kind of like it kind of triggers that sort of response in me. But I think nowadays it's not sort of a malicious like how dare they not listen to me. It's more of like a they probably just didn't hear it and that's fine. I think I've tried to get a little bit. better about realizing that, like, what I said doesn't always need to be heard all the time. Yeah.

So that's actually a really good nuance, which I want to point out, which is that your reaction to them not hearing you is somewhat automatic. And then a different part of your mind has to kind of calm that pissed off part down. Do you see that? Yep. And so still, what happens, though, is that programming activates in those moments. sure and so the question is like so let's move a little bit further back has there been a time that you can think of where that programming sort of activated before ideally we want to find something before like a year ago because I think that's really when you started to gain a lot of self-awareness and the more self-awareness you have the less that that programming is going to control you because that too do you see how you have the reaction and then awareness steps in and then you rationalize and then you kind of end up in a sort of more peaceful place.

Yeah. And so what we want to do is go back to, sorry, go ahead. I was going to say maybe some scenarios again with like other creators where we're, we're at like a business thing or something or maybe we're trying to get like feedback on something and I say something and then I get talked over by them. And then their opinion matters more in the eye of the eyes of the people who are asking. And then I think that. That sort of like it just shuts me down a little.

And just that, because I, I guess it's sort of like imposter syndrome that I feel like a lot of why I am who I am now and where I got to is a lot of like circumstance and look. Definitely hard work put in. But getting to this point now, like being told a lot that like, oh, you got a PewDie Pie shout out. That's why you're popular and things like that. It's like I was never allowed to enjoy the merit. of my own success for what they were. Absolutely, that had a contributing factor to it. But then always feeling like the lesser of greater people,

I think that that's where it kind of kicks in. Do you feel like you were the youngest child in the household of YouTube? Probably, yeah. I feel like, because I came on the, I came on a tail end of a lot of things where, like, bigger YouTubers, like a PewDie Pie or a, Markiplier would have been in the same space. And for a long time, the three of us were associated incredibly heavily together.

But I was always considered like, I just kind of like came along that I didn't pioneer anything, that I didn't like set the ground for anything. And I felt like a lot of times I'm like, well, I feel like I deserve a little bit of recognition in like certain aspects of what I did. But just hearing over and over again that you're, you're not good enough to be considered on the same level as people like that. I think it's always been this sort of like comparison in my brain to other creators of that stature. And then it was something that I didn't like for a while because I'm like, well, these guys are my friends.

I don't want to compare myself too much to them because then it becomes me versus them and the YouTube system rather than realizing like, oh, no, we're just friends. Like, we shouldn't be against each other. Yeah. So what I'm hearing, Jack, is that in some ways you've always been sort of standing in the shableness. of giants. Yeah, it kind of feels like that. And so I think the tricky thing here is that, look, can I think for a second?

I need to find the right words. Absolutely, go for it. Do you think you're standing in the shadows of giants? Let me rephrase. Is there a part of you that thinks that you're standing in the shadows of giants? Part of me, definitely. I feel like there's a, there's like an expectation to know exactly what you're doing at this level to have every move planned out and you are like 10 steps ahead and you're

like a business mogul and like you got to the top and like you're the greatest of what you do. On in actuality, a lot of the people doing this, I feel like a lot of people I talk to have no idea what they're doing and we're kind of just taking it day by day. And I'd like to see it perceived more like that than I'm kind of just trying to have fun in the moment rather than creating 10 businesses a year out from now and things like that. Like most days I don't have a fucking clue what I'm doing. And I feel like that that's fine. I feel like I want to try and like normalize that aspect more,

normalize the sort of like breaking down of the pedestals of sort of the idolization of things. Because I feel like that's where a lot of the Stan culture comes from, which I feel like... The what culture? Oh, am I going to have to explain something to you? Please. You don't know what Stan culture is?

No. So you have fans of something. And then standing something is like the next level of that. So it's like whenever you hear of like K-pop Twitter or something like that or people being like very hyper-aggressive. And I by no means want to tire everybody with the same brush here. I'm just trying to like break it down. that standing is like really, really obsessive like idolization of something where it like consumes your life

and you're like hyper into it and everything about your day is part of it. But I feel like that leads to a lot of negative things. I feel like it leads to a lot of because people talk about haters and like ignore the haters and like don't listen to them. Like sometimes they have a little bit of good things to say. Sometimes you kind of need a little bit of that because sometimes you're not right about everything.

But on the other side, scale of things you have the stands and I feel like those are also not there to help you in most regards they're there to build you up they're there to make you a team to fight on and I I didn't like people doing that with me either because then the comparison happens and then everyone fights for their you become a fighter in a game you become a character you become like a tribe yeah like There are people who are charging onto the field of battle with their banners that have Jack Septuagai. And then other people have, you know, the other YouTubers. And that tribalization happens.

And then everyone fights for you on your behalf. And from an outside perspective, it can look cool. But I feel like it's just not helping me. It's not good for anybody. Because I feel like I can. I just don't want people talking for me. I don't want people to feel like they know who I am 100% where they feel like they're like my best friend online.

And then they go start attacking other people in my stead. When I'm a 31 year old man, I can fight my own fights. If I'm ignoring something, it's probably for a very good reason. You can speak for yourself. Exactly. I mean, not always. I definitely didn't speak up when I should have. But I feel like these days, absolutely.

I'm allowed to speak for myself. And it's, I feel like a lot of people have a hard time tackling that because it feels like you're attacking your fans when that's not at all what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to let people know that, hey, some of you go a little bit too far. Do you think so in a humorous manner? When you point that out? I used to. I used to.

I think these days I've gotten a lot better at like setting the boundary and just cutting things off and they need to. So, Jack, I've got a couple questions, but I'm noticing like a bizarrely common theme here. And I don't know if it's just because I'm, you know, looking to make constellations out of stars here. but I'm hearing these same themes of like speaking up and being heard and other people talking interestingly I don't know that they're talking over you here but they're talking for you and then it's our we have to sort of decide as scientists whether we want to do the mental gymnastics of saying that those two things are connected is it talking over you or is it simply that like because what I'm really hearing is a common theme of you really having to

carve out your voice Yeah. I feel like that's fair. And so then the question becomes you said that in the past, you didn't speak up for yourself. What do you mean by that? Like now you've gotten better about it. I feel like if I saw something in my community that was getting out of hand, I would kind of brush it aside and hope that it would just go away and kind of funnel in something else to kind of drown it out. Crack a joke. Yeah. Or like if I saw something on Twitter, getting out of hand, I would just ignore it and then move on

and then hope that everyone just reacts to the next thing that I do. Instead of just calling it out, I mean, some things can probably just be left alone because there's no point like making a mountain out of a molehill, but definitely some of the stuff that's kind of pushed my boundaries

and pushed me as a person and that I didn't appreciate. I think I've gotten better at just drawing attention to it and saying like, that's not okay, please stop. Okay. I still falter every now and then, but it's something I've tried to get much better at over the years. So, Jack, I'm going to share with you a couple of thoughts.

These are going to be like pretty half-formed, but I want to leave you with something, you know, if it strikes a chord with you and you want to talk about it, you know, we're more than welcome to. I'm going to sort of, yeah, I'm just going to toss it out because I think you're an incredibly self-reflective person. And I think that even though it make for a little bit of unsatisfying television, I want to give you something to churn over in your mind and maybe it'll help. Okay. And then if something triggers and there's an experience that you can think of or it really resonates with the way that you feel, like we can certainly talk more about it. But usually what I do is I ask a bunch of questions and then I offer a conclusion. At this point, I'm going to just offer the potential conclusion first.

and then like we can sort through, you know, I like to make it sort of like the climax, but, you know, just here it goes. So, so I think this is going to sound kind of weird, but I think a lot of this actually comes back. So we were kind of hunting around for this idea that there may have been moments in your life where you had something to say and people spoke over you. And the funny thing is that, you know, that really sounds like it's the thing. But when I ask you about that, you're like, eh, nothing really jumps out. We sort of went down the dead end of the religious thing because that sounds like,

oh man like that was like oh he was like he like practicing religious freedom and he was oppressed oh my god that's when he lost his voice perfect oppression great but this was sort of a dead end too right yeah so I think what I'd like to toss out then if that's a dead end like let's just let it be a dead end like that's okay and oddly enough I think some of this may have to come from

your perception that you're standing in the shadows of giants and what I mean by that is like, so what I'm hearing you say is that you have to, you know, you have to elbow your way to the table. You have to really like go out of your way to be noticed. And so if we really think about it, like, you know, the things that bother us, like when people talk over you or don't listen to your opinion, that could be sort of traumatic in its origin in the sense that something happened to you at some point, like, you know, sometimes we'll see this kind of thing with people who grew up in abusive households where they're like, they really weren't, they had

something to say. Like, I worked with one particular patient who was molested in a gas station bathroom and, like, tried to tell people and, like, people wouldn't listen. And so it was, like, a really challenging sort of situation where, like, he was trying to speak and, like, people weren't listening. And so sometimes that's where that kind of comes from. I'm not really getting any of that from you. So the other option is that it's not actually that you were ever truly spoken over, but that you felt like you didn't belong. And so anything that exposes that or resonates with that genuine fear that you have about yourself is what like really kind of triggers you. So it's sort of like this idea that, you know, it's not that other people didn't let you speak,

it's that you kind of feel like you're playing in a game with the big boys and that you're the small, you're the youngest kid in the room. And so as you carry that fear within you, you're kind of very sensitive to anything which like may rub up against it. So if someone says something, you know, it's sort of like if I'm insecure about my appearance and someone doesn't give me a job and then I'm like, oh, it's because the other person was prettier than I am. It's not because that's not true at all. Maybe it's true. I mean, I don't know. But our own insecurities are the things that cause us suffering because our brain is sort of scanning for a confirmation bias to make us feel like devalued. So the interesting thing is like maybe we can

approach it from sort of a traumatic angle where you were really not listened to. But the other thing is that you, you genuinely, there's a part of you. And so I kind of asked you this earlier, do you feel like you're kind of like there's a part of you? And this is the tricky thing is that as the awareness grows outside of Jack Septic Eye, this other part of you is going to get kind packaged and set aside. And there are going to be moments where you're more aware where that thing isn't really going to have any power over you. But your own awareness outside of Jack Septic Eye is going to fluctuate. And in periods of time when your own awareness is low, that kind of devaluing insecurity, the idea that you're the small kid in the room full of big kids, that you're

the kid whose dad is retired and there's like, there's like everyone else and then there's you. and if that's really the case, then like, I think the sensitivity to, you know, other people speaking over you may come from your own insecurity that you don't deserve to speak. Yeah. What do you think about that? I mean, it feels like you're hitting a lot of the right points. Is that how to be? Yeah, I feel like that's kind of, yeah, I feel like that's kind of the avenue that I'm in.

Um, it's kind of, because I have always wondered that like, where, where is it coming from? Why do I feel this way? And why do I react a certain way and trying to get over it, but never really fully understanding where it comes from to begin with? Yeah. Um, so it's always been a tricky thing to grapple with. So then the question becomes, when did you start to feel like you weren't good enough? Or that you, not good enough. Good enough isn't the right word. When did you, when did you, start to feel that you were kind of last place in a particular group of people? Oh, that's school for sure. Like, even from the earliest stages, seeing I had a lot of friends who were very, very smart

and who were very good at, like, maths or some were good at X, Y, Z subject. And I always felt like I kind of lagged behind. And I didn't get, like, bad grades, but my friends were always getting great grades. and they were always doing so much better than me. And I remember just not being out, like certain things didn't click with me, but I never really had the hunger to make them click with me. But the dissatisfaction of not feeling like I kept up with them was still present.

And I feel like- Are we talking about your school friends or Petey Pied Pie and Markiplier? No, school friends, school friends. I feel like when I was in college as well, I went to college twice, and the first time I went for like music production in my when I was like 18, 19. And I remember leaving that course because even though I passed all my exams year two, I didn't go back for the third year because I felt like I just didn't get it.

Other people were like sailing ahead. They had so much hunger for it. They understood everything all the time. And I just couldn't get it. It didn't click with me. So instead of asking for help and admitting that I looked dumb, I felt like I had to just like leave that I'm not smart enough to keep up with these people

so this just isn't the place for me I need to like get out of here and I feel like that sort of that fear of looking dumb has always been sort of something that's persisted in my life for a very long time and I feel like doing this sort of job as well it's very easy for people to just say that to you

and it's it's not like one of those like super biting like slurs or anything like that it's just something so childish and benign sounding but it's always like struck a chord with me so i'm like damn it's like i really do suck at this don't i and i always kind of like shoot myself down as a result of that so let me ask you something when you feel like someone is talking over you does it feel to you like you have to rebel against that part because like here's what i'm envisioning okay and this is going to get man, this is going to fall apart real quick. So, you know, it's my fault, really not yours if I can't explain this.

But here's what I'm envisioning. And it's going to happen lightning quick, okay? So like, you're not a failure. You've never thought of yourself as a failure because you always passed your exams. Like you actually, you know, finished your two years. But everyone else is just so much better. And you carry that thought with you that everyone else is so much better. But then there's another part of your mind that's like, fuck, we can't think that way about

ourselves. And so like if someone else even remotely like suggests that they are better than you, you're like, that part of you comes rushing to your rescue. And they're like, no, Jack's opinion is just as good as yours. How dare you guys treat him that way? I deserve to speak. And I'm not stupid. Yeah. Is that what happens? Yeah, I don't think in as much of an aggressive way. But definitely that's sort of like tide starts rolling in pretty quick. Right, but the tide is a response to that initial insecurity. What do you think about that? And it's going to be quick. It could be hard to notice. And I could be wrong. Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. So now if you want to unravel this, you've actually got two or three options, okay. One is that you can notice that protective part of you.

And that protective part of you, like if you, I know it sounds weird, but if you disarm that, that's going to be the same thing is like looking at yourself and asking for help. Does that make sense? Like both of those are protective mechanisms. Yeah. And so if you dismantle that with your awareness or if you notice it, this will start to dwindle away. Because it's hard to describe that like if you stop the overcompensation, then you can actually fix the problem. But as long as you're applying band-aids, like you're never going to get to the root of it. Yeah. And then the other thing that you can do is actually explore, and this is the kind of thing that, you know, you can do with a therapist or you're a Twitch streamer. Yeah, okay. So, so this is also where, you know, this is the kind of work

that our creator coaching program does, but I'd say if you haven't seen a therapist, it's a good thing to work on, which is that, that initial idea of like, why did you start devaluing yourself, right? And you've got to talk, and this is where you've got a lot of stories. And so this is where, like you have to talk through and sort of sit with and reflect on all these instances, and there are going to be tiny, tiny instances where you didn't fail, but you felt like other people were better. Right. And like as you settle each of those moments down, then you'll be free of this.

Okay. Thoughts, questions, responses. Yeah. I mean, again, you're very good at explaining things. So I think you kind of hit the nail on the head. And it's kind of, it's things that I've kind of known for a while. And especially, again, a lot of the reflecting over the last year, I've gotten better at like when these things happen to kind of like stop and take a pause

and think about it objectively and realize like, oh, what they're saying is not the truth and kind of has no bearing on me. And I shouldn't take it so much to heart every time. I've definitely gotten better at it, but I still think I'm on that journey. Yeah. So let me try to help you just a little bit of tweaking that. The first step is to say, I shouldn't take it to heart to heart. The second step is why do I take that to heart in the first place? Because you could take all kinds of stuff to heart. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like your physical appearance, you know, whatever. Your accent. Right. And so like, like there are lots of things which you have allowed yourself to be, but this is the one thing. that still is the chink in the armor that like you do take to heart. So forget about the fact that, I mean, I think you're halfway there. So the next step is why does this thing resonate with you so much?

Right. And as you explore that, then you'll get to the real root of it. Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Cool. Awesome. I feel like we're at a decent stopping point. I mean, but, you know, I'd sort of like, I feel like if,

we keep talking, we have to open up something else. Yeah, we probably be here for another three hours. So I also find that when I'm working with someone, I think it's important from a memory consolidation point to kind of like pause and let you kind of process this, digest this, express skepticism with yourself, et cetera. And you can always like revisit things later. But like, this is what I kind of want to leave you with, especially given your own capacity for self-reflection. I think it's like pretty good. Well, I hope so. But yeah, I think that's a good, like, pin to put on things. Yeah. Do you have any questions or anything that I can try to clarify further or anything that you feel like didn't make sense?

No. I feel like if it didn't at the time, I would have poked a little bit further and asked about it. Yeah, and I thought it was very helpful when I sort of sniffed up the idea of, like, you know, people talking over you when you were a kid and you were kind of like, nah, nothing comes in mind. And that's really helpful. So that is, I think, ultimately what allowed us. Because if you had sort of played along, I don't think we would have ever gotten here. Yeah, I like that sort of avenue aspect of doing things. Because I can sit here and think about it all day, but there's just so much to consolidate that, like, you'd never know where to start. It's like, well, what am I trying to fix and what I'm trying to think about?

And what I'm trying to start with any of it. So it's nice to have somebody kind of like funnel that down. Yep. And I think this is where like if something doesn't resonate to you with you, ultimately it's not about what I think. it's about what fits, right? When I say something, some things are going to resonate and some things aren't. And you really know. And this is what Marcus Aurelius would say is that like you know everything. You just don't know that you know. Well, I don't know if you would say that precisely. But, you know, that like the change comes from within, that the neon is like buried within you. And all you have to do is

follow that internal compass and you'll get to your answers. Yeah. I think the self-confidence in myself is something that I definitely need to work on a little bit further. Yep. Maybe forever, but I don't think that's a bad thing. No, I don't think so. Yeah. So I think it's interesting because, you know, we've stayed away from the term self-confidence because I think you come across and you would even describe yourself as a confident person.

Did I? Wouldn't you? I guess so. I'm confident in my, myself. Yeah. Like me as a person. outside of everything. I kind of know where my brain is at.

Yeah. And I think that this is the other interesting thing is that, you know, that self-confidence is outside of Jack Septic Eye. And Jack Septuagai thinks that he's, you know, the youngest kid in the room. And so that's what we kind of got to dig into. Yeah. Cool. Do you meditate?

Uh, probably not as frequently as I would like to, but it's definitely something I've started doing in the last year. I was doing it a little bit before this call, even. What kind of meditation do you do if you don't mind me asking? I don't know if I'd have a term for it, but I like to just like sit in silence and kind of like just focus on my breath and my breathing and try and calm things down. I try to think about nothing. Okay. And kind of just have like one focal point in my body and just kind of. sit there with that for like 20 minutes.

What's the focal point you use? It's usually like my nose or just my breathing in general. Okay. Can I share with you a slightly different technique? Please. So I'm going to teach you a technique that comes from Kundalini Tantra or Kundalini Yoga. And Kundalini Yoga is like this business about chakras or chakras, which are these sort energy centers. It's super, super hokey, not very scientific. But particularly what I want to do is

teach you a meditation technique that is going to govern and strengthen this, once again, not very scientific, concept of the third eye, which is like your sense of intuition and understanding. So like knowledge and yang comes from the third eye. And I think that when you're, the journey that you're on, Jack is like one that really has to do with a lot of like understanding. And so I don't think you need success. I don't think you need self-compassion. I don't think you need to, you know, conquer your impulsive desires or anything like that. There are techniques for all that kind of crap. But I think if I had to share one thing with you, it would just be to enhance your ability to understand. I was about to say yourself, but I'm not going to add anything. Just understand,

period. Okay. How does that sound to you? Great. Love it. So I want you to sit up straight. your back and neck need to be straight. Okay. Okay. So this is, so, and, uh, take off your glasses, I think. Yeah. Okay. So I know this is going to sound, it's going to be really weird, but what I'm going to ask you to do is,

is close your, close your eyes. And then I'm going to ask you to take, I'll show you. So I want you to take your middle finger and I want you to hover it like maybe a few centimeters off of the middle of your two eyebrows and slightly above. Okay, so there's a point right here. Yeah, and now close your eyes. Don't touch. Don't touch.

And focus on the sensation kind of in your forehead that your middle finger is hovering over. Are you able to kind of feel something there? Yeah. Yeah, that's weird. Yes, it's going to be. So just focus on that for like, Let's say, so actually, let's pause for a second. Go ahead and open your eyes.

So what we're going to do is we're going to do some deep breathing for about 30 seconds. And then I want you to start that practice. And then we're going to do that for about 60 seconds where you're going to hold your middle finger over that point. And then after about 60 seconds, I'm going to ask you to relax. I want you to adopt, let me think about this. Chin Mudra. So do this with your hands. Okay.

And then put them palms face up on your knees when we're done. Okay, so it's going to be 30 seconds of breathing, one minute a finger over that, and then adopt this mudra and then just sit there. And I want you to continue concentrating on that spot. Okay. Okay. And we'll do a total of about maybe three minutes of practice. So 30 seconds, 60 seconds, and then 90 seconds of just focusing on that spot. Okay.

Two questions. Yeah. When I do this, should I keep? my eyes closed? Yes. Eyes closed the whole time. Okay. And will you prompt me when to switch? Yes. Okay. Okay. Beautiful. Okay. So let's close your eyes. And let's just start by anchoring ourselves in the breath. Breathe nice and slow. Really want to stretch out that exhalation. And now take your middle finger on your right hand and hover it between your eyebrows and slightly above. and you can vary how close it is you don't want to touch, but there's going to be a particular distance

that will kind of maximize the sensation. So focus on that sensation. We'll do this for about 60 seconds. Don't try to move around too much. Once you find like a decent spot, just stay there and concentrate on your eyebrow center. It may feel a little. bit intense, but try to stay on top of it. Continue your attention there. And now let your hands

come down. Let your eyes remain closed. And continue concentrating on that point. Now, in a relaxed manner, try to drive your attention or put energy into that point. Focus your concentration into the eyebrow center. We'll practice for another 60 seconds. Now let yourself come back, let your eyes remain closed, but let the eyebrow center go. Return back to where you are.

Your breath returns. Notice your body and your mind as they start to wake up again. And now I want you to put your palms together in front of you in sort of a namaste position. and then rub them together. Rub, rub, rub, rub, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, and cup them over your eyes. Take a deep breath in, and as you exhale, slowly open your eyes with your palms covering them,

as the breath completes, let your hands come down. That was great. Smile says it all. Yeah. I love that. What did you love about it? I love the... What's the right word for it?

I love the focus of it. I tend to, when I try and meditate on my own, I tend to get very sporadic thoughts. And it's very hard to control them and bring them back non-judgmentally to nothing. And it's like to focus on my breath and everything is one thing. But then I get aware of like, am I breathing too much? Am I breathing too little? That kind of stuff. So it's nice to like, it shut off my brain more, I think.

And it helped me have a better focal point. Did you experience any sensations? I don't think so on the first time. Okay. Just sort of like a lightness. Okay. Totally fine. But, you know, if it grabbed your attention, that's the point of a good meditation

technique. And I think this is hard because, you know, this gets, we get, this gets lost with, like, all of the apps because the apps aren't really tailored. Right. But I think, you know, a good meditation technique should help it become. easier for you to meditate. And ideally, what a good meditation technique would do is let your mind fall into the meditation more naturally, as opposed to like wrangling it and forcing it in.

Right. Which is, I think, the way that a lot of people kind of do it nowadays. But, you know. Yeah. So I'd say, I think a lot of people tend to think like, am I meditating right? Am I doing it? Is this meditation? Yep.

And I think for me, a good one was binoral. stimulation helped a lot. And I talked to a therapist before about like cognitive behavioral stuff and like doing stuff like a pen back and forth and like making sure your eyes are drifting back and forth. And that definitely helped me a lot. So anything sort of like, I think with sort of like a sensation kind of gets me into it more, I think. Yeah. And also if if there's a fluctuating sensation, I think that's going to work better for you too. But I really think you, you sort of stumbled upon the preparatory practice. to this practice. So this practice is sort of phase two of a sequence of practices. And phase one is concentrating on your breath in the tip of your nose and actually gazing at the tip of your nose. So I think you're sort of naturally gravitating along this path. I think also where you are, it sort of fits because this is the path of understanding. It's not going to do anything for you. It's just going to give you answers. And so try it out. I'd say you can do this practice for three to five minutes. I recommend about 20 minutes of total practice at least three days a week.

That's from a clinical standpoint and sort of a neuroscience standpoint, what's required to make changes in your brain. Right. But I would try to do this practice three to five minutes and then you can combine, you know, the other things that you do with it. You can strengthen it out if you want to. If you want to do this for a full 20 minutes, that would be wonderful. But don't stress about it. Sure. I'll try it.

And then if we get a chance, if you do the practice, Dillard, and we get a chance to follow up at some point, you know, just let me know. And then I'll teach you step three. Okay. Okay. Exciting. Okay. Well, thanks for coming on, Jack.

No problem. This is great. Yeah. And good luck to you. Any last thoughts or questions before we wrap up? No, I was just going to ask about like how long to meditate and how often and stuff like that. So you answered that already. Yeah.

Good. Well, you know, best of luck to you. I think it was awesome having you. I hope that I really loved our conversation. It was awesome because I think you've come so far on your own. It's like really fun to work with someone who's, you know, halfway there. Yeah, no, this is great. This is the type of conversation that I love and I've always been trying to like champion mental health for years on YouTube and what I do. So it's good to have like tools to deal with this sort of stuff and just talk it out. reaffirm things. Yeah, I think it's wonderful that you're championing mental health. I think part of, you know, a mistake that we sometimes make is because sometimes things do get kind of emotionally cathartic on this channel. I think everyone thinks that understanding mental health has to be like a painful, you know, tearful kind of thing. But I think understanding your mind can actually be like a really fun and kind of curious sort of exploration. And I think you really exemplified that really, really well today. It doesn't have to be like therapy, you know, where you're like talking about like,

oh, my dad, like, passed away and like he didn't love me. Yeah. And it's like, you know your dad loved you. It's clear. Yeah. You know, you don't need to be tragic about it. Yeah, exactly. Right.

So exploring mental health, even the challenges that we face can actually be like pleasant, enjoyable and funny and insightful. Yeah. And I think you did a wonderful job of kind of walking that journey today. So thank you so much. Well, I had a great guide. Yeah. Well, you're very welcome.

Have a good day. And, you know, good luck to you, man. Yeah, you too. I hope everything in Texas settles down soon. Yeah. You don't have to worry about things. I hope so, too. I think it's supposed to be in the 70s, you know, which is like, what is that?

Like 30 Celsius, I think. Something like that. It's hot. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, not 30. What am I thinking? I mean, I can't fact correct you anyway, so you can't.

you can say whatever you want. But anyway, have a good day, and best luck to you, man. Yeah, you too. Thanks for having me again. Bye. Bye. Hi, welcome to your neighborhood pharmacy. Hi, I've got a prescription for diabetes test strips. How much is the copay?

Well, it depends on your type of commercial insurance, and factoring in your yearly spend, subtracting the deductibles, also depending on your monthly allowance based on... Why can't there be a better option? Or you could try Contour Next Test strips. A 35 counts only 1999 over-the-counter and proven to be highly accurate.

Go to contournext.com slash radio to see if over-the-counter strips are a more affordable option for you. Hmm, I think I'll try Contour Next. Right now, Amazon is offering some amazing extra perks that come with a job offer. If you start a warehouse job, you can get a $1,000 sign-on bonus. That means you start earning a paycheck right away, plus you get extra cash to use before the holidays. Applying is so easy, you don't even need an interview.

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