HealthyGamerGG - Journey to Pro-Gaming, Confidence, Family ft. Broxah

Episode Date: January 8, 2021

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So what do you go by? Mass or Broxa. What do you prefer? I guess we can go with Broxa. Okay. That's what the most people in the community. Broxa it is. And thanks for coming on Broxa.

And so any questions about how this works or anything like that? Do you need some orientation? No, not really. I feel like I have a decent idea of what's about to happen. Okay, what's about that. So tell us what's about to happen. Explain it to us. I'm curious. What's about to happen?

Okay. Well, you are going to... Some shitties are about to get wrecked? What? I'm just kidding. Well, I guess you'll be directing me through a solid and healthy conversation about

toxicity and general mentality within the gaming community. Sure. And in this case, the pro-gaming community in particular, since I'm a pro-player. Okay. Yeah, so I think that that's a great way to describe what we try to do here. So let me see if I can add kind of a caveat to it.

So, Brox, I think what I'd really love to do is help learn about you as a person and kind of use, so what we do at Healthy Gamer is we try to look at individual people's experiences to give us an insight into like broader phenomenon, right? So instead of like getting, let's say, a psychological expert to talk about in cells, we actually want to talk to an in-cell about what their experience is. And I think that when we sort of have that one-on-one perspective, it actually gives us a lot of insight into the community as a whole. The other big thing that I'd love to do today, if I can in any way, shape, or form

is actually help you as a person. So if there's anything that you, you know, I have a pretty varied background. So if there's anything that I've studied or learned or had experience with that you think could help you, that's really my main goal. And so if we learn about toxicity in the, you know, pro gaming community along the way, like that's totally cool. But I'm really here to, you know, kind of have a one-on-one conversation and try to help you if I can. Sound good? Yeah. Yeah.

Sounds really good. So can you just tell me a little bit about yourself, Roxa? Yeah, I am a 23-year-old Dane. I'm from Denmark. Okay. I have played League of Legends professionally for the last four years. Okay. First three years for Team Fanatic in Europe.

Now I just played one year for Team Liquid in North America and just transferred over to CLG and another team over in North America. Okay. So for the time being right now, I'm in Denmark, waiting for my visa to be approved, and then I'll be heading over to L.A. to participate in the League of Legends League over there. Okay, wow. Congratulations. Thanks. And so can you help me understand, like, how you got to playing Loll?

Like, when did you start playing League of Legends? Well, I guess I could go back to the beginning of gaming in general. Yeah, so I've been gaming almost as far back as I can remember. It started when I was maybe, I don't know, let's say five years old, playing Game Boy, playing a lot of Pokemon on my Game Boy. I have two older cousins who I've always looked up to a lot, and they started playing Pokemon and Game Boy, so of course I had to do the same.

Later, they transferred to PC games, starting with World of Warcraft, and they taught me how to play World of Warcraft. I got into that. Later, we moved on to League of Legends. How old were you when you started playing World of Warcraft? Must have been around 8, 9 years old or so. Wow, okay. I was pretty young.

I think it was like third grade or something in school. So it was pretty early. And how old, you said you were about 5 when you started playing Pokemon? Yeah, that would be my guess. So usually when I would start with these games, I would be, very young compared to the general player base and I wouldn't really know what I was doing so I would have my cousins

helping me learn the game and like in World of Warcraft for example I remember really clearly what happened because they showed me the game and I don't know how familiar you are with World of Warcraft but the way that the game functions is that you create

a character you go around you do quests and you gain experience right and I didn't really understand understand how this game worked. So instead of picking up the quests and doing, I guess, what you're supposed to do in the game, I just found some monsters around and I killed them. I just walked around killing monsters.

And then eventually, I couldn't really gain more experience because they're all great. Yeah, they were all great. They were too low level. And I was just kind of stuck there not knowing what to do because I didn't know quests existed. So I deleted the character, created a new one, and I repeated, you know. Damn. That was my experience.

I had no clue what I was. I was doing, right? And then eventually, later on, one of my cousins came in, and he showed me the way, you know. And I feel like in general, for me, when it comes to gaming, that's, that's like how I got into it. it. That's how my experience has been. Can I ask a couple more questions about this?

So what was that like when you discovered that you were kind of doing it wrong? Do you remember? When they showed you the way? I don't remember exactly. what my reaction to. I guess if anything, I was just impressed and, you know, I was all really looking up to my cousins, right?

And I was like, wow, these guys are so smart. They're so good at the game. I remember here with World Warcraft, I was just making random characters and then my older custom appeared on his warlock, on, you know, his horse and with his little imp and his different demons. Now I was like, wow, you know,

this guy, he looks cool. Like, I want to be a warlock too. And then I created a warlock and now, looking back on World Warwick, My oldest character is this warlock that I created back then because of my cousin coming to show me how to do quests and all that, right? Wow. And can you tell me about your cousins? Yeah, so my cousins are three and six years older than me. Okay. And that obviously means they've...

In general, they've always been a bit more experience. When they got into games, they've had a better understanding because that was the young one. I was younger, I didn't really understand English to begin with. In general, I come from a game of family. Most of my close family, a lot of my family in general has played different games. At one point, with World of Warcraft in particular, half of the family, like my mom, dad, sister, my uncle, cousins, you know. It was like a family thing almost.

like and that has always been really exciting so in general games have always been a really big part of my life so if your parents are playing world of warcraft they're just letting you run around kill boers delete characters and make them again like they didn't teach you what no they got into the game later oh okay they were the type of parents who were because i was so caught up into the game i was so excited about this game right so they started playing playing the game as well, to play with me and learn the game alongside me. And to kind of help me when I was a bit confused and didn't know what was going on. That actually sounds really rare. I very rarely hear about parents picking up a video game because their kid is interested in it.

It is a bit of a rare thing. And in that sense, I definitely have some pretty cool parents. With Pokemon and Game Boy, it's the same. I mean, my mom, my mom learned how to play Pokemon. because her little kid had no clue how to proceed on a boss, and I sat there getting so angry, you know, and I just kept dying and dying, and I didn't know how to proceed, and then she would come in and show me like, oh, hey, Mass, this is how you do. I just read up on this, and then, you know,

I could proceed and go further in the game. So she would see that you were frustrated and would actually go and read about Pokemon and then help you through it? Yes. That's the level we're speaking of here. That sounds quite remarkable to me. Yeah.

I've been very lucky in that sense. There's no doubt about that. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because you said you've been playing League of Legends for four years and you're 23 years old. So I've played League of Legends professionally for four years. Yeah. I've played League of Legends. I started playing League of Legends like 10, 11 years ago. But it's four years ago that I started like actually playing it professionally.

Yeah. So I think that that's... That's interesting because when I think about a 19-year-old pro league of legends player, you know, we hear about these people who are like, you know, start playing chess, for example, in a really young age. And you have parents that will, like, encourage them, arguably even force them to play chess, who will find tutors for them. There's a lot of, like, support, right, from the family to support this hobby,

which then becomes a profession. And this is the first time I've talked to a lot of pro gamers, worked with a lot of lot of pro gamers. I mean, most of them have a pretty common story, which is that they're, you know, they had some problems actually growing up and things were hard in some way. And it seems like your parents were actually like quite supportive of your gaming, which is not very common. Definitely. I, there was periods where they were not fully supportive of it because they thought it was a bit too much. And I remember there was a period as well when I was, I don't know,

let's say in fourth, fifth grade where I had, they thought I was playing way too much World of Warcraft, so eventually I had one day a week where I was not allowed to play video games at all. And then the other days, I could, it was a bit more free, but there's one day I wasn't allowed to touch my PC and I could go outside and play football or read a book or whatever it may be.

And how did you, do you remember how you felt or how you reacted or what that conversation was like where they said no games? for one day? Well, I wasn't too happy about it, at least initially, but to be fair, I felt like it was kind of fair because I had so much freedom in general compared to a lot of my friends, and especially now, you know, hearing a lot of other people's stories, I can easily see that. I did have a lot of freedom, and my parents were really supportive. And while sometimes I thought it was a bit boring, not being able to sit as a PC,

I think it was a good opportunity as well to just do other things and have other interests, especially because they were so nice even letting me, like at the start of the week, I could be like, this week I'm not going to play on Wednesday, or then the next week I would be like, I'm not going to play on Friday, and I could even choose myself, right? And then I could just pick whichever day, and then I could make plans with a friend to go play football. I could do whatever, you know, do a lot of homework, whatever it may be, right? so I can plan a bit around it

if I'm kind of filling in the gaps a little bit Broxa what I'm hearing is that actually because your parents were so supportive you seem to be more okay with their restrictions yes I think that is fair to say yeah can you tell me about your parents

so yeah so my parents well my mom is an accountant my dad is a what's it called in English? Like a train conductor, I believe. Those people that control the trains, check people's tickets, all that kind of stuff,

make sure everything is functioning. And I don't come from, I feel like I come from a pretty average family in the sense that we were not poor, but we were not rich either. So growing up, I had everything I needed. I never had the feeling that, you know, I was missing out or something. if I wanted something, then I would usually have it. But we were not the family to go on expensive holidays or whatever either. My parents were kind of prioritizing time with me and my sister rather than just constantly working.

And in that sense, growing up, I've always appreciated family time, appreciated spending time with the people around me because while them being, being home a little bit more than perhaps some other parents meant that we didn't have a big load of money. We had a lot of great moments and opportunities to spend time together. Yeah, it sounds like they really prioritized time with you. Yeah, definitely. And supporting you. And it sounds like you have a sister? Yeah, I have two siblings, actually.

So I grew up with my sister, my little sister, who was three years younger than me. And I have a little brother who was 15 years younger than me, who I'm slowly turning into a little gamer. He's already starting to talk about Fortnite and doing his Fortnite dances and all that good stuff. So soon enough, we'll get him on the League of Legends Hive train, but for now it's Fortnite. It's focused. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I have a five-year-old and three-year-old. and, you know, I tried to teach my five-year-old how to play games because, you know, I'm a pretty big gamer.

She seemed to be relatively uninterested. And, you know, like I try to teach her like Mario Kart and stuff because, like, you know, I had the wheel. And so I was thinking, oh, she can have the wheel and, you know, her brain is new so it can learn how to do things quickly. She just is not that interested. As it turns out my three-year-old, so, you know, now they're pretend playing, it seems like my three-year-old is one of us. because so my older one pretends to be like a queen and a princess and has like teacups and things like that and the younger one is the most recent character she was pretending to be was a dragon that was dual wielding a sword and a knife and so I was very surprised because I've never showed her dual wielding which I was really surprised but she was like yeah I have a dagger in one hand and I have a knife in the other and and so the older one is queen

of the, you know, queen of whatever kingdom. And then the younger one who says, I'm queen of the demons. And so it's bizarre, but, you know, maybe she's one of us. It certainly would appear so. What's it like, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. It's a while ago I showed my little brother, League of Legends for the first time. He was probably, I know, for five years old.

And, you know, I was sitting at my dad's place, My parents are divorced now. And I was playing League of Legends and this little guy was sitting on my lap. And I just wanted to enter a normal game. I don't even remember if it was normal or against bots because it was pretty hard playing with this little guy sitting there and trying to control my keyboard and all sorts. But then going into the game, he decided that we were going to play FIS

to champion FIS. And then he found this great skin where it's basically a rapid a rabbit skin. And we were having a great game and we were walking around, killing everyone. And every time we got a kill, he was like, yay, and cheering for me. And now it still happens sometimes.

He's like, Mass, when are we going to play the rabbit again? I want to see you on the rabbit. Or if you watch just one of the games I play with my team, he's like, why didn't you play the rabbit? Which is pretty cool. Good question, Mass. Why didn't you play the rabbit? It's disappointing, I know, but that's the way it goes, I guess.

Does he understand, so I know we're supposed to be talking about toxicity and League of Legends and whatnot. Is it okay that we're talking about this? Yeah, it's fine. So does he understand that you're a pro gamer? He does. So when I played for Fanatic, I was pretty fortunate in the sense that Fanatic had these, you know, the old teams do these player jerseys and stuff

at Fanatic this player jerseys and shorts in like size for a free four year old or something and my little brother got one of these and he was taking his shirt on in well I guess it would have been kindergarten back then

and he was going, my dad was telling me that he was going around in kindergarten and being like oh look guys I have a Phanic shirt on and hey do you know that my big brother is Proxer and you know bragging to to the people working there and whatnot. Yeah, he is

a very supportive little brother too and he does know quite a bit about gaming and whatnot by now. I think, I guess I'm both a good and bad example in a sense because I'm sure that eventually my dad and his girlfriend are going to have a bit of a difficult time

getting this guy away from the PC because he's just going to point at me and be like, what do you mean? My brother is playing video games all day long but yeah but yeah he does he does know and understand what what my job is what's it like to have a little brother who looks up to you so much it's uh i don't know i'm trying to find a word to describe it but i guess if anything it just it's just really interesting and exciting and i guess it's i feel sometimes that it puts some pressure on me as well in a way to you know perform and to live up to to this little guy's expectations.

But in a sense, when it comes to that, my family in general has never really put too much value on. They don't care too much about, I mean, they care about how I perform and how my team is doing. But usually the moments where I have felt that my mom, for example, has been the most proud of me was when I had like a lot.

a really good interview where I acted really professional or nice rather than when I was at my absolute peak as a player because usually when I perform as a player and when the team is doing really well they're happy because I'm happy and when we're not doing

so well they don't really appreciate it because I'm kind of sad and frustrated but usually they've been the most proud in some of those moments with things happening out of the game and for my For my little brother, I don't know, it's probably a bit of a mix of everything because he doesn't really see everything in the same light.

I mean, he's probably the most excited to know that I'm a pro gamer rate. Yeah, it sounds to me like your parents don't, you know, your parents value you outside of your performance in your job. Yes, exactly. Right. So it actually sounds quite different. I don't know if you've heard the term tiger parents. No, not really. So it's like parents who want their children to be really, really successful and almost like use their children like trophies.

So I grew up in the Indian community where three out of the five Indian kids in my school became doctors. Okay. And usually the first words out of my mom's mouth when she's talking about someone that I haven't heard of in 10 or 15 years is whether they're a doctor or not. Okay. And so, you know, some cultures and some parents will want their children to be, my mom is not a tiger parent by any means. But, you know, they really want their children to be, like, successful. And, like, if their children go to prestigious universities or have prestigious jobs or make lots of money, that makes them, like, really, really happy. And they, like, value their kids for being successful.

Sounds like your parents really were not like that or aren't like that. No, like, I could quit being a pro gamer and I could go back to my studies and I could become whatever it may be. And obviously there's some, you know, they're proud of me for what I've accomplished and they're proud of me for, you know, being a pro gamer in a sense. But they wouldn't care if I was working at a super market or whatever. it may be working at McDonald's. Like, as long as that's what made me happy, they would be happy to, right? And the other thing that I wanted to just point out is I'm noticing a remarkable similarity between what your cousins did for you and what you're doing for your brother.

Yeah, I guess you could say that in a way. How does it, do you, like, I'm just, I'm noticing it on the surface. Is that thought ever crossed your mind that, Because it kind of seems like you're shepherding your brother in the way that your cousins like kind of shepherded you. I think for me it's going to be maybe somewhat, perhaps a middle ground between the two. Partly because usually, like I don't get to see my family that much because I'm traveling and I'm away from most of the year. Like this year, for example, I was away for eight months. oftentimes when I'm home and I'm on holiday

I don't feel like playing as much oftentimes I want to get away from the PC because I sit in front of it playing League of Legends all day for so much of the year so I don't think my brother feels like he plays as many games with me as he wants to because he wants to play 24-7 right and I want to play a bit

but I want to do other things too so I'm the type of big brother who does play games with him, but who also tries to get him to go play football or get away. Wow. I think he's very lucky to have you, Broxa. It sounds like you. I hope so.

Yeah, it sounds like you're teaching him a lot about balance and gaming, right? That you can have fun, but you should also prioritize other things. This is coming from someone who plays games for a living. So I hope he hears that message loud and clear. I hope so, too. And tell me a little bit about, so I guess we've got kind of two directions. I know I've been asking you about a lot of stuff that has nothing to do with League of Legends or toxicity. So, you know, I'm a little bit curious about two things.

So I'll let you kind of pick unless, or of course, if you want to talk about something, by all means, dive into it. One is we sort of left off with you discovering League of Legends. So we could kind of pick back up with you starting to play League of Legends, how you became a pro. option two is I'm a little bit curious about your parents divorce and just what that was like if you feel like that's worth talking about. And then the third thing would be, you know, if you just want to talk about toxicity and like kind of cut straight to the chase, we can do that because we've been kind of, you know, we've been sitting in the lobby for a while now. But, you know, what? I don't know.

we could go for option one or two, I guess, and get so that it's a toxicity stuff a bit later. Okay. Can you just tell me quickly, just a quick overview of your understanding of why your parents got divorced and what that was like for you? I don't think I want to go into exactly why they got divorced,

but I can explain kind of what it was like for me. So as a kid, it never seemed like my parents had any problems. Actually, they were, they seemed really happy together. Our family was really happy. Yeah, certainly sounds like it. I was having a really nice childhood. But then kind of what seemed like from one day to another,

we were sitting at the dinner table and, you know, they sat there telling me and my sister, like, hey, we are going to, we're going to break up, we're going to have a divorce. And at first, I was very surprised because I didn't really see it coming I didn't really expect it

and it was pretty difficult at times dealing with especially when seemingly it came kind of out of nowhere right and I think in a sense after that gaming was a bit of an escape

at least at times because I was already gaming a lot right but most people noticed that when when they're dealing with something, if they're stressed, if they're having negative emotions, sometimes just opening up a video game and just living through that experience, at least for a couple of hours, can help take focus away from all the frustrating things you're dealing with. So through some of those periods, I definitely was using it a little bit as an escape. But at the same time, they were not having a really bad divorce or a brutal divorce by any means.

they actually handled it really well. And even now my parents can still, you know, have conversations together and whatnot. So that's also pretty lucky that we avoided a lot of those problems that some parents are having when they're having a divorce. Yeah, I mean, part of the reason that I asked is because I was a little bit surprised to hear that your parents did get divorce. Because, you know, just like you said, it was kind of unexpected, right? Yeah. I think I think that's how it was for a lot of people back. And it was a bit unexpected, and then when something unexpected happens that kind of catches you a bit of God,

then you get a bit stressed, you get a bit out of it. And during those periods where I didn't feel that great about it, I don't remember if I was playing World of Warcraft the League back then. But whichever I was, I was using the game as a bit of an escape sometimes and, you know, just grinding the game. And what was difficult about it for you? I don't know. I guess most of all, all the uncertainties, all the question marks, because I was happy with our family. Sure. And in general, I'm not the type of person who appreciates change.

If something is working, you know, I don't want it to change. And for me, as a kid, life was great, you know. We were having a great little family, and I didn't want anything to change in that family. And I think that was the toughest thing to deal with. And I'm sure that's how a lot of... a lot of kids or teenagers or even older people feel when their parents get divorced, right? It's a big change. And sometimes it can be stressful and kind of confusing to understand what's happening and

navigate through that. Well, yeah, because it's really hard to understand what's happening, right? It doesn't seem to make sense. You don't know what the future is going to hold. You really like the way your family is now. You don't, all you know is that it's going to change. Yeah, exactly. It can't be good because you're pretty happy.

with what you have now. Yeah, exactly. It's hard, man. I hear you. Yeah, so it sounds like you started playing League of Legends when you were like maybe 13, 12, 13, something like that. Yeah, exactly. Around that, I got into league. And again, one of my cousins introduced me to the game.

I still remember it pretty clearly because we were going to have our own little two-man land party. land party and play most of the night. And back then I was really into World of Warcraft. I loved World of Warcraft so much. And I thought we were just going to play World of Warcraft all night. But then eventually at some point in the evening, he was like, hey, Mass, I found this new game that I want to show you. And then I installed League of Legends and we played a couple of games.

And I don't think it took more than a couple of months. And I was better than he was all of a sudden, because I had just been playing it so much and I was so excited and into it and the same thing happened with both Pokemon and World of Warcraft. By the way, they were so good at these games

and it was so hard for me to catch up, but eventually I would just be so hooked that I... I don't think I necessarily got better than them at World of Warcraft, but I was definitely spending my fair share of hours in improving and learning about the game.

And how did you can you tell us what the journey of becoming a pro looked like? Yeah, so in so with Pokemon, with World of Allcraft and even the first five, six years of playing League of Legends, I was just playing for fun. I just thought it was really fun.

I enjoyed playing after school with my friends. And for League of Legends in particular, in the first season, I was not great at the game. I was, I think I ended the first season in bronze, which was the absolute lowest bracket of players. The next season I climbed up a bit towards gold. And then season three in my third year, that's when I really started playing the game seriously.

And I started actually meeting some of the pro players in my games and started improving in that sense. And in my first year of high school, Like I just slowly started taking it more seriously, started playing a bit more solo because I really enjoyed the competitive part of it that I hadn't experienced that much before. Sure. And it fit really, it kind of resonated with me because I'm a really competitive person as well. So I was just playing a lot of solo games, climbing the ladder. And in my first year of high school, I got to Challenger top 200 in Europe for the first time.

but even then I just thought it was a cool achievement I didn't really consider becoming a pro player and I think more than anything my friends really enjoyed bragging about knowing a challenger and when we entered a game and they started bragging in old chat

about how they have the challenger and the enemy team Dustin and they were having a lot of fun and bragging for me but I just enjoyed the competitive side of it meeting pro players was really exciting, getting to play against them, get to know some of them, and just learn how did the pro player life functions.

It's interesting. I'm not hearing that you brag very much, but it seems like a lot of people around you brag about you. I don't know. Maybe I brag sometimes. Maybe some of my family friends or girlfriends consider me a person that brags about myself. I don't think I'm the worst offender at this. But yeah, anyways, then in my second year of high school, I was invited by some Danish friends to start playing in Danish land events and tournaments around Denmark. So we were traveling from city to city and I don't know how many tournaments we played, maybe five or so, but we basically won all of them and earned a little bit of money for that, which was great.

I was just in school. I wasn't learning anything at the time. And then, even then, it was just, you know, it was just fun. Like, I just enjoyed it. There was a great experience. And I didn't really want a team that practiced a lot

because I wanted to have time for friends and school and family. And it kind of fits really well with the way that I've been growing up and what my parents have taught me, which is that there should be time for games or whatever I want to do. But the main thing is that I take care of my homework and that I'm actually doing my job in school. Because what happens with a lot of people and what I've seen with a lot of people in my classes... Are you in school and a pro player? No, I'm not in school anymore.

Okay. But... Yeah, what happens? to a lot of people is that they just get so addicted to games or whatever it may be and then they stop doing homework entirely. So it's like they're doing well

on the gaming side but then they don't do anything on the school side and life kind of falls apart where my parents made it really clear that I could play games but I have to do my homework otherwise there's no mercy. That's kind of a deal we had which was fair. So in high school

when I started getting invites to seem a professional professional teams, I didn't really want to do it because I couldn't really see how to make life work and how I would be happy having both. And then when I finished high school, or right before I finished high school, I had a conversation with my mom about my future, basically, what I wanted to do. And I couldn't really see myself continuing my studies for that next year. I kind of needed a break.

and I couldn't really see myself in any of the possible jobs either. Like I had pretty good grades and I had some different options, but, you know, now sitting down having that conversation was when I really realized, like, wow, this could be my chance to actually make a living out of gaming to try to be a pro player. Because before that, I just always had fun, but I didn't really consider it that way. But when I reached that point and had to make that big decision of going to the university

or being a pro player, I couldn't do both anymore. I had to make a choice because I just wouldn't have any opportunity to be a competitive player if I didn't go for it at that point in time. So then after the summer holiday that year, I started playing a lot more solo queue. I spent most of my time playing solo queue. actually initially I was looking for jobs like I looked for jobs at all the supermarkets and McDonald's wherever it may be like I think I searched jobs in like 50 different places and I didn't get anything and then I was like okay I'm not getting any

jobs anyways so you know what I'm just going to go all in in League of Legends and hope for the best and I think that was if you got a job at McDonald's you may not be a pro today yeah things would have been different right because maybe my priorities would have changed Maybe I wouldn't have enough time to practice. Yeah. I don't know. But so then I just went all in. And I think that was in September maybe.

And at the start of January, not January, at the start of November, sorry. I think it was November, mid-November maybe. I got in talks with Fanatic, who was by far the biggest European ESPOL organization at the time, because I knew that coach who used to be. their coach who used to be a professional player too and I had a good relationship with and he was like, you know what? I think you're a good

player, I want you on the academy team. So I started playing for the academy team around that time, end of November, start of December and then February I was thrown right onto the main team and now I've been a pro

player ever since. What's it like being a pro league of legends player? it's really exciting. But I would say it's the type of job that there's ups and downs to. I think it's a really awesome job, but I'm really happy about all the things I've experienced these past four years. But there's also some downsides to it, because it's also a really stressful job.

And with my personality and the way that I function as a person, like wanting to balance life, one thing. Because as I told you, like when growing up, family time was so important. And having that time with close ones, with family friends, with my girlfriend, while being a pro player, while living on the other side of the world. So those things are kind of challenging. You're in a relationship right now? I am in a relationship, yes. How long have you been in that relationship? I have been in that relationship for over four years. Oh, wow. Yeah. So basically, well, ever since I got into it all, I've been in a relationship.

Okay. So you said there are downsides, and where does toxicity kind of come in? Yeah. So I guess if we, I think toxicity has been a pretty big one that I've always had a pretty difficult time understanding. Let's say this year in particular. I think this year is a pretty good example for me. But it's kind of happened throughout my entire career.

But this year, I was on the other side of the globe in L.A. I was in a lockdown. My team wasn't doing too well. Things were not going the way we had hoped for. And then, you know, criticism, hateful comments, all that sort started appearing everywhere, especially in my private messages and the thoughts. comments and social media, all that good stuff.

Wait, people with DM you hate messages? Yeah, the way that it works in general is that if you are a pro gamer, and I don't think this is only the case in League of Legends, I think it's the case in general, you need to be really strong mentally because there's a lot of good things happening, but whenever something bad happens or whenever things are not going your way or your team's way, some people tend to forget that. And I, like an example could be even,

my best year as a pro player so far has been 2018, where we went all the way to the world final. And I was considered one of the best junglers in the world at the time. And I think all really in the next split, or maybe even right when we dropped out of worlds, people started getting angry at us because it's like this team reached the world final but they didn't win so they must suck

you know they went zero free this is not good enough they haven't represented to region well and then obviously it's a minority feeling that way usually most of the time it's a minority but that minority kind of adds up and recently I put out a video

talking about all this toxicity and I saw a lot of grow players and influences chiming in saying that kind of agreeing with me saying that it's kind of frustrating that you if you're a public figure you have to deal with all these things because the reality is if you're a public figure within the gaming community if you're not really strong mentally

you're just going to break you're not going to be able to handle it because you can't really hide for me for example I have I have accounts on all possible social media at this point almost. I have a YouTube channel, I have a Twitch stream, I have all the social medias and people have

so many ways of getting in touch with me or writing things that I'm almost certainly going to read, right? And for a lot of people one comment, two comments, 10 comments that are negative and hateful

doesn't mean too much, but eventually it kind of adds up right and it becomes really difficult to deal with to the point where at times I feel like people are just getting bullied like it's just too obnoxious and there's a really big difference

between productive criticism or productive feedback and a really offensive language and death threats and all these type of things right you get death threats I'm pretty lucky

in the sense that I haven't gotten way too many but it would happen once in a while that I was part of losing a really important game or my team lost

a really important game and I kind of had to hide from my DMs on Twitter for a little while let's just put it that way because again it's a minority but what does that do to you

you say you have to be mentally strong so let's say like I open up my Twitter DMs and like what's an example of a message that you would see I mean, I don't think I should mention someone to the worst ones, I think. You're sure. But, you know, some people, it could be anything from people stating that I'm bad or that I'm garbage and that I should quit the game, which is, you know, okay, that's an opinion, I can deal with that. It's not productive criticism, but it's an opinion.

So people that say that I shouldn't be living life anymore and that, I don't. don't deserve to live and that, you know, I've done all sorts of things to their team and that it's, you know, and they start saying very bad things because of that, right? And I think sometimes it can be a little extra as a pro player or as an influencer. Like you get more messages, right? Because you're in the spotlight. You have to listen to this more because you're kind of an easy target in that sense. And especially for the people streaming and whatnot, you know, The chat can be a bit ruthless at times. It doesn't take much for people to go off in there.

But it happens to a lot of people within the community. I think it happens to most people, even for just regular people playing the game. Yeah, and what does that do to you, Broxa? When you see that message, what's your experience in those? Like, walk me through the next few moments of what happens to you? I think it depends of this it depends a bit on the

state of mind that I'm in let's say if I'm in a period where things are not working that well where things are not going well with the team where I feel like I'm not performing that well maybe there's something personal that I'm dealing with it's really hard

you know you see some of these really hateful things and you start questioning yourself quite heavily and it takes quite a lot to have all those question marks in your head and still, you know, power through and be confident in yourself. What are the question marks?

Again, it could be stuff like, am I good enough to play this game? Am I letting the team down? Am I a good enough person? Am I a good example for this community? because some people perceive me this way. It could be stuff like if I am being treated this way as a human being, what am I even doing here?

Why do I bother having this job if I just get depressed from some of these things people tell me, why don't I have another job where I'm being treated properly? Why do I put up with the abuse? Yeah, basically. Like, why do I put up with this? Why do I have to accept this?

this is unfair, this is ridiculous, this is not the way that things should be. And I think, and that's the main issue that I feel like it doesn't really make sense that you have to, like you shouldn't have to be really strong mentally to function anywhere.

Let's say with gaming in particular, people play video games because it's fun. You know, it's just fun. It should be fun. But if you're met with a lot of hate, constantly, then that's not very, very easy to deal with, that's really

really difficult. And again, for a pro player, it's one thing because you are in the spotlight, but even for some of my friends, you know, they can also get fed up with playing a game and people

start slaughtering them with offensive messages or people at them after the game and tell them really obnoxious things or social media. I that's a good question how do I deal with it um I think the way that's I try to deal with it is um I consider myself a really strong person mentally and I've always been confident in myself my own abilities um and

I think that alone has helped a lot. No matter what I've had to go through, no matter what problems has come my way. I've just told myself that I'm in this position for a reason and I deserve to be here and I'm good enough, both as a player as a person. And then sometimes when I felt necessary or when I needed to vent out,

I would go to some of my close ones. Or I would go to a coach or a teammate and be like, hey, you know, this is bothering me, this is on my mind. People are telling me this and that. What do you think I should, what do you think about my performance? How do you think I'm doing in terms of the team? How do you think I am as a person? And just to get some proper feedback in a way, I guess you could say.

Because obviously most of the things that are coming from like external sources and from social media, people within the game, whatever it might be, a lot of the really obnoxious comments are coming. I mean, some of them are very questionable, and I can't really understand why people behave that way, but some of them are just really emotional and frustrated, and they might have their own problems to deal with, right? And I just try to tell myself, okay, you know,

if someone feels okay writing this to another person, And then, you know, I kind of feel sorry for the person. Like, there's no point getting madder. What is this problem? This person probably needs even more help than me. Yeah. It's interesting because, I mean, you talk about mental strength. And I think the interesting thing there is that you,

so you have this voice when, so here's what I'm going to try to piece together. So, you know, let's say you have a bad. placement in a tournament or something like that, right? And then you say you kind of got to avoid your DMs for a while. So like you open your DMs and you see a message that's kind of hateful. They tend to pile up and then you start to doubt, right? You start to ask yourself like, hey, are these guys actually right? Like, do I deserve to be here? And then so there's like the doubt about your capability. And there's a separate thing which is like it feels really unfair. It feels like you shouldn't have to put up with this. And so there's this sort of feeling of

like, yeah, like it's like doubt in yourself and also separate from that, this is unfair and no one should have to deal with this. You know, why do I have to do this? And then like as you start to those those kind of feelings can kind of grow maybe with the more messages that you get. And you can kind of discard some of them, right? Like you can ignore 10 of them. You can ignore 20 of them. You can ignore 30 of them. But then as you have all these different social media channels and they start pounding you from the left and the right and like all over the place. YouTube, Twitch, you're streaming and then some haters show up in your channel and then you log off and you open up Twitter and people are shit talking you. And it kind of piles up. And then you end up with

these two doubts. And then something really interesting happens because what I'm hearing you say is that you actually tell yourself, I do deserve to be here. And that's a really, really interesting point because I think that a lot of people, don't have that voice. A lot of people actually, the really unlucky ones, will actually have a voice telling them the opposite.

Yeah. And some people will even have, you know, positive messages. And then they have a voice in their head that tells them that these people don't really know who you are. They're just being nice.

You know? Yeah, for sure. You're smiling, is if you understand, which is... Yeah, no, I'm just kind of thinking of what you're saying especially about being

confident in myself and that voice in my head. In my first year as a pro player, we had a really good sports psychologist, well, I was working with a lot due to confidence,

especially. I was so nervous. I didn't feel ready to play for the main team in my first games, I was literally physically shaking on stage. I was so nervous. It was so hard to play high-pressure games. In the past, with exams and all those things, it would be the same thing.

I just couldn't perform. I got too nervous. But then this guy came in and really helped me a lot working on my confidence and he called it negative self-talk in particular, trying to really think about the way that I'm, like the voice in my head basically, how I'm thinking to myself and what that voice is doing to me in those moments. And that's something I got better at and started kind of taken with me. Because, I don't know, part of why I was smiling,

I was thinking about that. Like honestly, if I wasn't so confident in myself, I probably, I mean, it's not really a reason to smile, but I probably would have broke at some point, like mentally. I would just have quit, which is part of why I think it's a big problem, because I consider myself really, really strong mentally.

And there's probably a lot of people out there were stronger. There's also a lot of people who were not. but if I felt that my confidence in myself and my own abilities my confidence in myself as a human was the main thing that you know kept me going in this job and in this community then that's kind of a problem because there's going to be countless of people out there who are just going to break mentally and we're not going to be able to handle it

and I don't really like the thought of that. That's not the way things should be. Yeah. So I think there are a couple of, I guess I've got kind of two threads, two or three threads. One is I'm sure a lot of people are curious, you know, what that sports psychologist told you and how you managed to change that voice in your head. I think that's something that a lot of people are very, very interested in. Um, another thing to kind of think a little bit about is you say that you are mentally strong. I'd agree. And I don't really consider that arrogant or anything like that. I think that you do have a lot of confidence in yourself. We can explore a little bit about where that comes from and how to find it. The third thing, um, that I just want to toss out is that sometimes, especially when it comes to issues of toxicity, we're still sort of talking in the abstract. And, um, you know, so this is something that I want to be really careful about. Uh, you know, you know, so this is something that I want to be really careful about. Uh,

sometimes it can be very, very helpful to take an actual case of raw data and walk through it in more detail. Now, I know that some people are concerned about that because in that process, if you talk about toxicity and we use an actual example, there, you know, people may know who you're talking about if it's a public figure or things like that. So I want to be really careful. We're not here to really like, you know, point fingers or anything like that. what we're really here to focus on is kind of your experience and how to deal with toxicity. But at the same time, you know, I have found that generally speaking, when people give, when we go through raw data, it can be very, very illustrative as opposed to talking things abstractly.

Because I'm still not sure, Broxah, like anyone who's watching this, I don't know how this actually helps anyone in a concrete way. Does that make sense? Like, we've heard a lot about you. I completely see that. Right. So, and I think that's where, so these are three options. I think it sort of depends on what you feel comfortable with or what you think would be useful. I'm not sure.

I think the mental strength one would be a good place to start because I think that's something that could help a lot of people and that's really important. Sure. Okay. So the mental strength one you mean, so not the sports, psychology. just but where confidence comes from? Yeah, I guess so. Honestly, I'm not even sure exactly where it comes from. Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

That's part of why I'm so interested in this one. Yeah, yeah, so remember, we're here to help you, right? So it's like your questions. So like that's a great question. So let's talk about this. Where does your confidence come from? Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is, you know, all the work that I put into it, I guess, like all the hearts.

hard work, all the hours that has gone into it. I'm a really structured person. So when I approach a task or a problem, I usually go into it in a really structured way and really, really clear plan of what I'm going to do. And I kind of have, you know, my days almost set in stone right from the beginning. Because that way I feel, I feel like I'm going to be productive.

I feel like I have a really clear plan in my head of what the day is going to bring and how at the end of that day I will have learned something. I will have proved one way or another. Okay. Like let's say it could be. So, Brock, I'm going to just interrupt you for a second, okay? So, so, because I don't want you to get too far because we're going to, I'm going to be a little bit more interruptive. So if it bothers you, please let me know, okay?

So the first thing that you said is it comes from my hard work. So let's look at that kind of scientifically. So you had worked pretty hard when you hit the academy team? Yeah. You had worked pretty hard when you got on the main team? Yeah. And were you confident? No.

Okay. I see where you're coming from. Right. So I know it sounds bizarre. It's a very, very reasonable hypothesis. that confidence comes from hard work. Turns out not really the case. Okay?

Yeah, okay. You got me. Oh, I see that. Yeah, so hard work plays a role for sure, but, you know, it doesn't come from there. So then you said, okay, so you have like a very structured mind, okay? So I think that sort of makes a little bit more sense to me. Structured mind is a really, really difficult thing to really understand. it's a very deep system of knowledge.

But here's the way that I would walk through it. So a structured mind, like your mind tells you A, B, C, D, E, and F is going to happen, right? You organize your thoughts, you organize your day, you lay out your day, and then you execute on your tasks. Yeah. And things work out the way that you expected them to.

is that the case when you have a structured mind over a given day? Yeah, generally speaking. Obviously, there can always be things that are unexpected things that show up. But on a broad level, I have an expectation or an idea of what the day is going to bring. Yep. And so I think that sort of makes more sense because if we kind of think about it a little bit, you know, literally what is confidence? Confidence is the capacity to have an expectation in your performance.

Yeah. Right? So if we would like define it, it's like knowing what you're capable of. And if you have a structured mind and you lay out six things for you to do and then you do those six things, what is your expectation of your performance the next day? Right. It sort of builds confidence because you said, I'm going to do this and then you actually do it. Yeah. And so confidence increases.

Right? So I think a structured mind is a big part of it. But I think of, I don't really think that's where confidence comes from because what we're talking about is like the negative voice in your head. Right. And if we really think about it, like, where is that voice? Let me ask you this. When you tell yourself that you are a good person and that you do deserve to be there, whose voice is that

whose voice do you hear in those words interesting question I feel like it's hard to say I was thinking it could be I'm about to say all the many of you know the close ones that I really care for that I feel like I'm kind of fighting for in a way

that I'm putting a lot of trust in me and that's really respect me for what I'm doing but I'm not sure if that's really it. So even from your answer, which you're sort of confused, there's actually a very big answer. So you've actually given us a fantastic answer because you said it's an interesting question.

So the first thing to understand is that because it's a hard and interesting question, the answer is not it's my voice. Do you see that? Yeah, no, I, yeah, I, Yeah, I don't think it's Like I can't just sit here and say it's my voice Because I'm not sure

The fact that you can't say that is incredibly significant Because what we must conclude from that Or what I mean we don't have to conclude But what I'd hypothesize What I'd pull away from that Is that confidence actually I know this sounds fucking weird Doesn't come from you

Just think about it Because if it came from you You'd say it's my voice That's me Talking to myself but you're like, I don't know whose voice it is. So could it be your voice? Sort of.

Maybe you don't know what you sound like. Well, obviously to an extent, it's always your own voice talking, right? But where does that confidence really come from? And like, does it actually come from my voice? Or is it kind of inspired from something else? Beautifully point. Yeah. Yeah, so, Brox, I think that this is where we got to trust your instincts because you're right.

Just follow your instincts. So I think that even when you kind of say that, like, it's my voice, there's a piece of it that's me, but it's inspired by something else. Right? That, I think, is like, like feels in the same vein of what my experiences have been in terms of exploring confidence. So here's the kind of really interesting thing is that, you know, what I would say is that confidence doesn't come. from you, it is taught to you. What do you think about that? Yeah, I think that is fair to say.

I feel like doing my time as a professional League of Legends player, I literally learned how to be confident in myself. Because as I said, initially, I wasn't really confident. I was nervous. I wasn't sure if I was going to perform. and I went on stage into official games kind of questioning a lot of things and when I was about to make a play in the game

I had all these voices in my head you know kind of fighting with each other about whether going in was a good idea or not like you have second thoughts in a way right and I don't really I don't really have that anymore that's something that changed

and that I learned and picked up somewhere along the way Yeah, so I don't think that that is the whole of the answer. I think that's actually the second half, because there's something important there, too. You say that when I was a pro player, there was a fight, right, in your own head between two voices. Yeah. So confidence, and now you're saying, okay, now that fight has been resolved and the confidence has won, right? For the most part. Generally speaking, that can always be exceptions, right?

But if we really tunnel down, Brox, so what that means is that the confidence was always there. It was fighting at one point. But at that point, it was already formed. Yeah. Which means that you didn't become confident. You didn't learn how to become confident. Sure, confidence grew.

But that voice was already there. So this is where I think it's interesting because most people think, oh, I became confident, you know, through my trial. That's when confidence wins. but it's not where it originates from. And this is where people run into problems because when people look at you and they say, oh, like,

Broxa did it because he like fought through that mental difficulty and then like that is how he became confident. But you're going into the game evenly matched, right? The reason that you struggle is because you're going into the game, you've got your draft of like confidence and then the enemy has their draft and then you win. The problem that people run into

is that when they look at you and they try to learn from your case, they're not going in with the same draft that you're going in with. And then when they fail, they blame themselves because they say, why can't I do this? So we still have to go back to like where that voice that was fighting. We'll get into, you know, how you learn to be confident because obviously grew a lot. Negative self-talk and stuff like that.

Maybe that's more of the sports psychologist side. We can talk about that journey. But I want to even dig further back. So, like, you know, when you think about when you were five years old and playing Game Boy, did you feel confident in yourself? I think at one point, I felt very, very confident in my abilities playing Pokemon on that Game Boy, yes. I thought I was very, very good at that game back then. What about when you were playing wow?

At one point, it was the same thing. I think usually with games, it's kind of, it's kind of, started it the same way where it's always a bit up and down right because um like let's say in league of legends for example you can be you can be really confident being in gold elo or diamond if you're playing and it's lower to your players but there's always a step up and that's where you know you kind of start over with the entire confidence thing again because someone smashes you in the game and you kind of have to repeat the cycle right and i think with most games it kind of started with me just going in a bit blind and not feeling that confident because I didn't really know what I was doing.

I was just learning having a lot of question marks. And then eventually as I put more and more hours into it, as I put more hours into doing research and kind of having a better understanding of the game and became better at it, that's when I started becoming a bit more confident than myself. Yeah, so I think that makes a lot of sense to me. And I think there's one really, really important piece there, which is oftentimes overlooked, which is you said you go into it blind. That's where the money is. So let me give you two scenarios, right?

Like, let's say one thing, someone says, Alok, you have to, you know, fight for your life in the next 24 hours. And then I go into it. And then someone says, I'll look, you have to prepare for something over the next 24 hours and then you're going to do something. If I succeed in the blind one versus I succeed in the prepared one, which one leads to more confidence? Obviously, the prepared one. Why? Because you have time to gather your thoughts and create. Again, this is where the structure comes in play, right?

because I would take the opportunities to preparing, create a structured plan of how I would approach the problem and go about it that way. And then once it starts, I have a good idea in my head of what's about to happen, what I'm about to do. Like let's say, with school, for example, with exams,

I would always be really confident about the writing exams, those that you just sit for yourself, if you get a piece of paper and you can just look at all your notes and, you know, just write something. But all the oral exams where I walk in, I have no idea what subject I'm going to have in the exam. Like I go in a bit blind in the sense not knowing what I'm going to discuss. I would get so nervous because I would come in. Okay, I get you now. I get you.

Okay, so let me ask you this. Let's say you go into an oral exam and you ace it. How do you feel about yourself afterwards? I there's a limit to how many times it has happened but when it happened I felt very relieved and very very proud

because I was put in a place where I was really out of my comfort zone and I still came out with a really good result I made it work so if we think about how confidence is built I completely agree with you that the oral exam you're less confident when you go in

yeah But I would say that in terms of growing your confidence, the oral exam actually grows it more than the written exam. Yeah, at least for me, because I always viewed the oral exams as the big challenge to overcome. Exactly, right? Right. So I think this is huge because I think when you say I went into it blind, the less prepared you are, the more confident you have the possibility. of ending up. Yeah.

So when I look at people who are highly, highly avoidant and lack confidence, what they try to do is prepare so that they never have to be tested. Right? They prepare and prepare and prepare so they never truly get tested. They like set up all of these things in their favor so that success is guaranteed. Like I'm not going to, if I say Broxa, I want to build my confidence as illegal. I want to be a good League of Legends player. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to ask you,

and I'm going to ask all the other League of Legends pros that I've had on stream, we're going to queue up together. And I'm going to stack the deck so that I win. So they're going to do nothing for my confidence. It is my insecurity that causes me to reach out to people like you and says, will you join my team? Will you help me stack the deck? Will you help me prepare for victory here?

And the victory is completely empty. Yeah. Right? Because I got carried. Yeah, and you want to be the one carrying. Right? But no, but no, I don't because carrying's fucking scary. Right?

So when you take a written exam, you can get carried by your notes. Yeah, that's a fair point. And the oral exam is so much scarier because you're like, I have none of these, where's my fucking, who's carrying me? No one's carrying you, bro. And it's terrifying. Yeah. Right? So actually, so this is where.

if we're talking about building confidence, going in blind, like when you really test yourself, because then you know it's not, I'm not getting carried by a pro, it's not my notes, it's not all of this, it's just me.

I did this. Right? Like, that's where confidence comes from. I can do this. I don't need the notes. I don't need to queue up with Broxas as my jongler to play a game of legal, like to win a game of legal legends.

I can do it. And in your case, just to kind of toss another hypothesis, you know, I think that confidence is taught, right? There's a lot of psychological research about this. I can go into more detail. But I think that like it went, when you kind of think about even the way that your parents let you pick the day, right?

Like what your parents were, let you, they let you pick your day that you're not allowed to play. So even like when you were in fourth grade, your parents were saying, Broxha amass, I trust you. I have faith in you that you can pick the day. And I was surprised because when most parents, like, when most parents think their kids are playing too many video games,

they don't say there's one day that you can't play. They say there's one day that you can play. Yeah, for sure. Right? And so it's kind of interesting because I think that you also mentioned like having support. So I think that it's hard, but this is a rough answer. But the short answer is that I think confidence is taught to people, just because that's how our brains learn.

Like, we learn very little from ourselves. We learn a lot from, you know, other people. And I think part of the reason that you're mentally strong is, sure, you've worked hard, sure you have a structured mind. But I think, frankly, like, you got some good RNG when it comes to your family. You know. Yeah, I can confirm that. Right. And so I think it's important to acknowledge, not to say that you don't deserve.

it or anything like that. But I think that one of the things that really bothers me is that when people look at you and they're like, look at this 23-year-old Chad League of Legends player who's got a girlfriend and gets laid from time to time, what I want people to understand is that you were dealt a particular hand in life, which has nothing, I'm not saying you didn't work hard or anything like that, but to hold in your mind two things. One is that you had parents who taught you that you have value, right? They were like, Mass, I want you to be happy. Like, if you lose a game of League of Legends, you still have value as a person. You're not just a summary of your results. You're more than that. And that's where confidence comes from, right?

Like, it's an intrinsic sense of value. And the more that you value yourself, the more you can face uncertainty. Because I think you've had little run-ins with uncertainty a lot. So I think your parents' is a good example of like you were facing uncertainty right you were going in blind it was like an oral exam you didn't know what was going to happen and when you get through that when you cross that you know lake of fire and you wind up on the other side you're like okay i can handle this now and you've had your trials like when you you know certainly when you started to become a pro it sounds like you you know you had that voice and then you had to fight so it's not like it was easy for you. No, definitely. And I think in my time as a professional player, one of the biggest things

that I had to learn to deal with, both as a player, but especially also as a personal level, was to navigate through all that uncertainty and dealing with it. Even, let's say, the first time I went to Berlin to play with the team, I had no idea what was going to happen. I had never been in this situation before. I had never met any of these people. And Oftentimes when traveling, I have no idea when I'm coming home. Sometimes I don't even know when I'll be leaving until a couple of days before I'm leaving. And when playing tournaments, it's kind of the same. The entire future in the tournament depends sometimes on one single game that you have to play

and you have to set yourself up for that game and you need to be ready to perform. And in that sense, I think that is one of the things that I've really had to to spend the most time kind of dealing with and learning along the way, move a bit out of the structure and my comfort zone and feel a bit more comfortable with all the uncertainties and navigating through them and still getting the most out of myself. Yeah, so that's a great way to put it. I think moving outside of your comfort zone

and becoming comfortable with the uncertainty. Right? So like this is, this is tricky because this is what a lot of people who are not confident do. They try to remove the uncertainty. Yeah. And if you remove the uncertainty, you may succeed, you may work hard, but you won't become more confident. Yeah, for sure. And that's kind of a, I guess, a mental, not this is early mental cycle, but like a mental state of mind somewhere where I've been to at times where things have been really difficult with the job. And at times I would be questioning myself and questioning whether I would be able to navigate through it.

And I have been thinking to myself, like, do I actually want to do this? Am I ready for this? Do I want to continue this way? But that's where that confidence comes in and tells me that as long as I just, you know, as long as I'm just me and as long as I do my best, it's going to work out one way or another

and it's going to be fine. at the end of the day. So let me ask you a concrete question there. You say, am I ready for this? And what's the answer you tell yourself? It's not always, yes. It's not always a simple, yes. Sometimes it's just a maybe or I think so.

So that's where confidence comes from. Is doing something when you're not ready for it? Yeah. Right? Yeah, I think that's. Yeah, that's a good answer to it. It's beautiful, because I think sometimes, you know, you'll give an answer that sounds vague on the surface. Like, it's not always a yes, but that is a great answer.

It says a lot. Yeah, I believe so. Because that's the important thing. It's not always yes. And so I think Brocks are really what you should commend yourself for or give yourself a pat on the back. I think you were dealt a good hand. I think you were given a nice starting stat for confidence. Right?

It started off pretty high. And at the same time, I think you really have pushed yourself into uncomfortable situations. And you've done things that you haven't been ready for. And that, I think, is what makes you strong mentally, right? Is that you're willing to face the uncertain. And if you guys, I kind of cut you off, but I think you were on kind of a good chain of thought. If you guys listened to Brox's thought process, it's sort of like, I may not win, but it's going to be okay in the end. That's a statement of confidence. Because some people are like,

if I don't win, it's over. I have been there before too many times. And like honestly, oftentimes when I go into a game, whether it's solo career professional game, like that's oftentimes the default process that can appear, right? But that's where you need to, this is one of the things that has been difficult for me as well, like going into a game. and really setting me up, like just thinking to myself that if I don't carry this game, if I don't look like a god and if we don't win this, everything is going to be doomed, you know, like everything is going to be over. But I've kind of learned along the way to really take everything one step at a time.

And I've never been the type of player to inside tournament and go out in interviews and say that we're going to smash everyone and we're going to win no matter what. Because that's not really how I want to, that's not how I say. myself off for success. Obviously, that's always the goal and that's always what I'm working towards. But if we're in a tournament, then the first thing I'm going to tell myself is that,

all right, we need to reach playoffs or we need to get to the group stage and I'm trying to figure out what I can do in order to help myself and my team get to that level. And then once we are playing a quarterfinal, I'm like, okay, this is the team we're going up against. This is the situation. is what needs to be done in order for us to reach the semifinal.

And just always really taking it one step at a time. Because that way, if something goes wrong inside the game, which is very common. Sometimes you're inside a game with a plan and two minutes in, everything collapses and, you know, things fall apart. And you need to be really good at reacting on the fly and figuring out how you're going to win the game with a different plan. And especially as a jungle in League of Lessions, that's so important. Like if something falls apart, you have to do whatever you can to bring your team back on track. And like, I found that if I go into a game thinking, I have to win no matter what. If something goes wrong, I just black out.

I get so frustrated, you know, because the first thing that comes to my mind is like, oh, no, it's lost. We're not going to win. but if I just think to myself that like if I just try to come in prepared no matter what happens and take it one step at a time then anything can come my way

or that's how I feel right like no matter what comes my way I'm going to be ready to adapt and I'm going to figure things out on the fly and I'm going to get us in a position to win this game or at the very least do my very best to make us win this game and I found that at least for me that's

a really healthy way of thinking because it does put some pressure on me in a way, but by no means to the same extent of just having to win no matter what. Well said. I think that you've stumbled upon something which is a little bit different, but I think it's not having expectations and devoting yourself to your action as opposed to the result. And this is something that I mentioned to people in e-sports before, which is like, you know, if you're, let's say you're the mid-laner and you're going two and oh, you go two and oh in your lane.

Yeah. Let's say you're the mid-lainer and you go 0-2. Which one is more likely to make you tilt? Going 0-2. So I know you say that you're a pro league of Legends player, so you have more experience than I do. Bizarly, in my experience, what oftentimes, happens is when you go two and oh, you say, I got this shit. I've crushed this nob. And then, and then if you die once or you die twice, then suddenly you're two and two. And then if you're

0 and 2, and then you get two kills. At the end of the day, if you end up is 2 and 2, the person who is 2 and 0 is more likely to tilt. Because they create an expectation of a victory. But you're the actual League of Legends Pro, so if you disagree, we're going to defer to your answer. No, I had a feeling you were going to say that. And I kind of see where you're coming from. Because I think it mostly depends on the expectations you set for yourself. That's it. The way that the mind functions, because some people are going to have an easy time tilting if they have elites.

Because they feel pressure. They feel like now, whoa, I have a lead. I have to carry. And then because of that, they start questioning themselves. and they do crazy things and they throw their lead. But I think what often happens is that when someone has a bad game from my personal experience, that's where the mental part can really shine.

Because being in a really tough position and just staying strong, just accepting that you've made a mistake and dealing with the situation you are in and making it work is really difficult. And what a lot of people tend to do myself, sometimes, it start rather than admitting that you made certain mistakes and that you're the reason you're in that position, you start blaming other people and you, the focus kind of, like the voice inside your head starts focusing on random things that don't help you win the game at all. And often that's where the attitude problems and the mentality problems come in because people are having a rough time and then rather than, taking full responsibility for it and dealing with the situation, they start blaming other people. And they're like, you know, I died in my lane. The jungler was here and killed me. It's your fault.

Why are you not here? Yeah, that's something I understand very well. So I play more Dota than League, and I'm a jungler in Dota. And oftentimes my team blames me for juggling. But I try not to let that affect my attitude, and I continue juggling every game. That is the life of a juggler, right? Especially when you're a jungle in these type of games, you have to deal with a lot and you have to learn to accept that. Sometimes I think of it as being a babysitter in a way. There's all these children in the lanes.

And if anything small goes wrong, they start screaming and crying. And then you have to figure out how to navigate through that and how to deal with that. I'm laughing, Broxica, because I was trolling you a little bit. there's no role of jungler and don't know it's like an off lane though that there's something similar there's something similar but generally speaking when you actually go jungler it's a terrible idea because it's like a bad strategy and oh really i thought i thought it was actually like a viable strategy that that no no okay and so junglers are just like you know there is offlay like a lot of people will go into the jungle but there isn't a dedicated role and

generally speaking, it's incredibly rage-inducing when there's a juggler on your team. But so, you know, just speaking of, of, you know, expectations and letting down teammates, I understand we were supposed to talk about toxicity, and we really haven't done that. I mean, we've been at it for now, you know, a little over an hour and a half. Do you, or right around an hour and a half? Do you want to talk about toxicity, or do you feel like this has been productive? or, I mean, is there something I can help you with in terms of toxicity or anything you want to say? I'm not sure.

I feel like this has been productive. I mean, the entire conversation, I think I said at the start that I felt like I had an idea of what was coming. And you said that maybe it wasn't the case. And I definitely didn't expect to sit and talk about all these things for this long. When it comes to the toxicity, there was one thing that. that came to my mind. It was one of the things you said about how my parents were when I grew up and how they put a lot of faith in me.

And I think when it comes to toxicity or bad attitudes or treating people a certain way, when I grew up, I was taught to be responsible, I guess. And I think being responsible for your actions, being responsible for the way that you treat other people is incredibly important. And again, I'm not the best example of all time in that regard, but I can consider myself pretty responsible. And when it comes to treating other people a certain way,

I'm also not perfect, but I always try my best to treat treats. I mean, it sounds a bit dumb saying it like this, maybe, but treat others the way that I want to be treated and treat them like, you know, good humans, human beings, rather than going off when something goes wrong. And when it comes to people, you know, flaming others and getting really mad in video games, I kind of understand.

Like, I'm a really competitive person too. I can also get really mad when something goes wrong in my game and when I feel like someone is ruining my game. But there's still a difference between getting really mad and actually typing really obnoxious and hateful messages to a person. And I feel like when it comes to the hates that influencers are dealing with, pro players are dealing with, it's kind of the same. But like, there's no, I've never been able to understand why people send hateful messages to others.

Like, when whenever, when I was a kid and we were watching the Danish. national team play football. Like, you know, we would be yelling at the TV and stuff, and we would be like, oh, this player is so bad. Why did he let the team down? But we would never consider, you know, reaching out to them about it. It's kind of crazy. You couldn't, right?

But now you can. Yeah. And I think sometimes when people get caught up in those emotions and when something goes south, they kind of get about that entire responsibility that they're carrying. well hold on a second brox so i'm going to push back a little bit so i agree with your general so like like your general point but when you say you know i know that it's you seem like a super stand-up guy you seem super responsible but at the same time i want to point something out because one of the things i'm hearing from you and one of the things i've been curious about is like i'd love to talk

to the toxic assholes on stream i've said this like over and over and over again where i want to find the most we've like tried this with like incels and and like my So like dudes who hate women. And I don't know if it's just because of like our audience or people are more like mild when they come on stream and they really are not like as fiery or offensive as they are. I mean, we don't want them to violate TOS. But like, you know, we've had a couple of people who sort of identify as in cells. And my take after talking to them is that they tend to be like pretty decent people. And and that's just been my own experience with most people who come on stream.

like even when they're hated by the internet or, you know, have been toxic towards other people. Like I, we just see the nice side of people. So I'm kind of curious about that. But when you say like, you know, when you used to watch football and you yell at the TV, like, that's the same thing, right? It's just now we have Twitter. So you can actually like the dude on on the TV can hear you. For sure. I feel like that's that's kind of a problem.

and that's a big change in society because I know if you go generations back, like in Denmark, football or soccer is the biggest sport and I've seen people so many times yelling and getting mad over football players or something going wrong with a team, but you would never have that

luxury of actually being able to reach out to them and for them to hear what you were saying. And now that is the case and that creates some sometimes really uncomfortable situations and for all parties. That's kind of the problem. So what do we do about it, Broxham?

I'm not sure because it's a tricky one to deal with. And it's a bit saying that everyone has to be responsible and everyone has to push themselves to be better to make a change that might help to in some cases. and to a certain extent, but is it going to make it an actual difference? I'm not sure. The way that I've always looked at it, especially now that I've grown my brand to a certain extent, is that what I can do is to try to be a professional. And the way that I, there's a lot of people out there who look up to me for whichever

reasons whether it's as a person or as a player and when I say something or when I do something many of those people kind of idolize it in a way they want to act the same way they want to play the same way and if I come across in a poor manner in a bad way especially if I do it consistently all those people are going to start doing the same things they're going to start behaving that way whenever they play video games they're going to behave that way whenever they go on social media and And therefore, even though I'm by no means perfect at it, I always try to go into streams or videos, whatever it may be with that mindset, that I want to be a good person. I want to be a responsible person. And I want to make sure that I am not part of pushing this particular thing that's actually bothering me and that's bothering me and that's bothering a lot of.

other people because I think it's a problem so I'm going to I'm going to speak up I'm going to state that this a problem and I'm going to try to be part of setting an example of you know how you should treat other people how you should behave on the internet okay I think it's beautiful that you want to do that and also I'm curious what about the people who don't do that yeah and that's that can be a bit of a problem right because because there's a lot of different type of people out there. And this goes for, you know, there's a lot of different famous people out there

in all aspects, whether it's video game, sports, movies, whatever it may be. And the way that I see it is that anyone who has a following has a big responsibility for the reasons that I just mentioned. I think it's so important in this community, the pro gaming community, the League of Legends community, whatever gaming community is that all those people with a big voice, with a big following,

they don't necessarily have to sugarcoat everything or be positive all the time or whatever it may be. But it's so important that you come across in the right way because you have, like some of these people have thousands and thousands of fans. So, Brox, I'm going to. push back a little bit once again. So I'm all for your positivity. We try to be positive here. But just to, because I genuinely want to work on this, so I want to challenge your ideas a little bit. Is that okay? Sure. So the first thing is that in my experience, sometimes the people who we perceive as toxic believe that they're behaving in the same way that you're describing.

They believe that they're behaving in a responsible way, right? They just think that like, you know, being honest or not. not letting people get away with their bullshit or things like that. So I think that's something we have to acknowledge. I don't think that there are people walking around thinking, you know, they wake up in the morning and they look in the mirror and like, boy, am I a toxic asshole. Let me go make some of the dude's life miserable. I think most people think that they're behaving actually exactly the same way that you say you are. And I actually don't know anything about, you know, toxicity and lead.

So maybe you're actually a toxic asshole and I just am not aware of it. Who knows, who knows? Right. So that's one thing. And the second thing that I kind of toss out is that, so I get what you're saying. I think each person who has a platform has a responsibility to try to be a model for behavior, right? That's what you're saying. Yeah, I think that's one of the things I thought that.

That's just important. Yeah, so I agree with you. I think the challenge is a couple of things. One is that some people who may be perceived by others as toxic do believe that they are being a model. Yeah. Right. So that's a challenge that we have to somehow overcome. And so this is where like sometimes I wonder a little bit about like actually conflict resolution directly. So this is where, where you know, you're saying that everyone should hold themselves to a higher standard. What I'm curious about is, is there a healthy way if there's toxicity between two people? Is there a healthy way to actually resolve that that toxicity? Instead of I'm going to be a responsible dude over here and you're going to be a responsible dude over there. and like, you know, because I think we have to engage people. This is my hypothesis now.

So I'm not really challenging what you're saying. It's actually, if I really think about it, what I'm asking for is your approval or your criticism based on what I'm thinking to help me think through this. Because when I think about conflict resolution in real life, it's not like when I have an argument with my wife, I don't just hold myself to a model of high behavior and she holds herself to a model of high behavior. That's why we fucking argue in the first place is because I think I'm holding myself to a good standard. She thinks she's holding herself to a good standard. We just disagree. Right? So what I'm kind of curious about is like now that you can, you know, in the past we used to yell at footballers on the TV, now we can DM them.

And so I'm just, I just don't, I think relying on people to be models of good behavior, basically is what I'm saying. Doesn't seem to be working. No, it's a. It doesn't, it works to a certain extent, but not to the maximum. And so just curious, if you think there's some, I know conflict resolution may not, I don't know if people know what that means practically, but like, I basically believe that we need to engage people in like a more active way if we want to do something about toxicity. That's my hypothesis. Yeah, but how exactly would you do that? I don't know.

So I will say this. There's a particular e-sport that I actually run a group for pro players that and we kind of work through toxicity issues on a weekly basis. And we kind of show up and we talk. And I think it's been really interesting to see how things have changed because being able to direct, like fighting over Twitter, it's really easy to get mad at someone but like when you get people in a room together

it's like harder to call each other assholes and sometimes they do call each other assholes and even if they do call each other assholes then we kind of like work through it yeah and I think a lot of a lot of people who don't behave that well on the internet a lot of them aren't assholes

a lot of them are good people but there's certain reasons or they might have a bad day. There might be something recently that has happened that's making them frustrated and they just vent out on the internet or something that happened when they were growing up. There's a lot of reasons.

That's why people behave a certain way, right? And I totally get where you're coming from, that someone can behave one way on the internet and then when you meet them in person, it's like meeting a completely different person. And that can be the case, both, you know, it can be this way where it's a different person. positive experience, but it can also go the other way.

Absolutely. Yeah. So, I mean, after listening to you, you know, here, I don't know what is more exciting to me, but I have two or three random ideas. One is that I think it would be cool if, I don't know if this is like actually okay with TOS for Twitch, but I think it would be a lot of fun. So my younger daughter, the three-year-old, actually likes Dota. And she likes playing, once again, the monstrous creatures. so she's not interested in in you know the the female wizards and things like that she likes to play this hero called tide hunter who's like a sea monster so she said she wants to play the sea monster and and so she likes to play the sea I think it'd be like I think it's like really cool I'd love to do like a stream with like you and your brother and and me and my daughter and have like a kids and anyway I don't know if that's okay because it has children on Twitch so maybe that's like against TOS but I think it would be cool because I do.

really enjoy. So my mind is kind of going there. The second thing is I don't know if it was, you know, my wife would be okay with it or even I would be okay with it with having my kid on stream. But that may not be, you know, because as we're talking about, the internet is a toxic place. The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we need like some kind of couples counseling for people on the internet. And just, you know, because I think like people, I don't know, I was just thoughts. But what do you think? I'm not sure.

I think as you're saying, finding different ways to engage people. So I'm just, chat is telling me that no, nobody below 13, so that's banable. Makes sense. Okay, so that's probably for the best.

Yeah, probably. So as you're saying, I also think it's important to try to come up with ways to engage people because, inside these games on social media you can always tighten up the rules and you can make really strict rules

but is that going to help? I mean, only to a certain extent, right? I think that goes a bit back to what you were saying earlier but rather than dealing with the problem in a good way you're just kind of, like you're not really dealing with it. You're just shutting it down a little bit but the problem is still going to exist

and it's just going to come back later. Yeah. Yeah, I think finding. that way to engage people and make this change would be a big step, but it's a tricky one that no one has quite figured out yet. Yeah, but that's what we're here for, Roxa. Oh, right? So we're stepping into uncertainty now, and we don't know if we can figure it out.

But I'd love it if you just think on it, sleep on it, and if you have any thoughts about what we can do, please let me know, or what we can do. If there's any way I can help you with any answers that you come up with, please let me know. But yeah. So last sort of thing that we tend to do on. Any questions, by the way? No, not really. So the last thing is some people want to learn how to meditate.

I don't know if you do meditate or if you're interested in learning, but I'm happy to teach you if you are curious about it. I've done a bit of mindfulness before, if that counts. Sure. It's mindfulness, but it's not meditation. Yeah. I think it certainly counts in the same bucket. Yeah, to a certain extent it counts, but no, I've never done, I guess you could say actual meditation. So I'm down for the experience.

Okay. Do you want to do something a little bit more... Okay, so if we're going to do something a little bit away from mindfulness, I'm going to teach you maybe a more intensive meditation technique that I think also relates to confidence. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I'm going to teach you something called,

it's been a while since we've taught this on stream, but you seem to be a pretty resilient guy, so we'll kind of go there. And for people, because we talked a lot about confidence as opposed to toxicity. So a lot of people, you know, if we think about confidence, confidence is this intrinsic.

Can I just think for a second? Of course. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to try to summarize, and then I'll teach you a meditation technique. Okay. So a lot of people ask us, how do I become confident?

Right? Like, how do I gain confidence? How do I build confidence? So I think as we learned about from talking to you, Broxa, the first thing to understand is that people, when they say, how do I become confident, they're missing something. Because confidence is not something that you intrinsically do. It's not something you can build all by yourself. that's the first misnomer. So we think about where your confidence comes from, it's actually taught.

So originally for young children, and even like, you know, older children or teenagers, confidence is something that is taught to you. And what I mean by that is that your parents or other people that are close to you in life will, like, speak to you in a certain way. And that thing becomes the voice in your head. And then what happens is, you know, in moments where, you have crisis of confidence, what happens is you have a war in your head. And there are two voices, right? One is saying, you can do it. And the other one is saying, you can't do it. And so already,

if you have that conflict, the first thing to understand is that when you're really young, the part of you that says you can do it is not something that you can build on your own. It's something that you're given. And so some people are kind of given the short straw and some people are given like a good hand, I mean, a bad hand of cards or a good hand of cards, good RNG or bad RNG. And so that's the first thing, okay? So the next thing is then you have a little war. And the more that you face things uncertainly, the more that you face things that you're not sure are going to work out well, the more you go into things blind, the more your confidence is going to grow. And this is another tricky thing that people fall into is that when they lack confidence, what they try to do

is adjust the rules of the game so that they don't have to take a chance. Right? So what I'm going to do is like, if I'm not confident that I'm going to pass the test, what I'm going to do is cheat. And even though I can get the result, it's not going to build my confidence at all. So people are willing to sacrifice confidence to gain a victory. So we also see this sometimes in like dudes who get friends owned where they're afraid like let's say I want to ask a girl out and if you ever come back on stream we've got to talk about your girlfriend but you know let's say you want to ask a girl out and you're afraid she's going to say no

and so then what they end up doing is like they'll do things like they'll get her gifts and stuff and what they want to do is they want her to like like like them more so that they can remove the uncertainty of the equation. And then when they ask her out, she's going to like me so much. She's going to see how awesome of a dude I am. I care about her so much. She's going to notice that. She'll notice it eventually.

I'll get her flowers for Valentine's Day, but I won't tell her that I'm interested. And so then they invest a lot to remove uncertainty from the equation. Yeah. Right? And then, anyway, it usually doesn't end up going well. But at the end of the day, though, like, that's tricky because the things that we do, like we're not willing to face things, we're not willing to face uncertainty. So, and when we do face uncertainty and we come out on top, or even if we fail, we actually end up more confident at the end of it.

As long as you're willing to face uncertainty, as long as you're willing to go into something blind. And when you survive at the end, you mentioned to us earlier that, you know, you, even if you lose, you know everything's going to be okay. And if you really think about that, how did you learn that? Like, that's a really important lesson. but the way you learned that is by going into something failing and then like waking up the next day and being like, oh, I'm still okay. Right? And so this is where early on you said kind of confidence comes from maybe the hard work that you put in or some people think that confidence comes from success. But actually, if we really think about it when you talk about your thoughts of confidence, they don't necessarily come from your success.

They actually come from your failure. what they really come from is stepping into something, not knowing whether you can handle it or not. That's how you grow it. But it sort of starts with, you know, there's a part that's given to you and there's a part that you grow. And that's how you become confident in short. So the next question is, let's say people have bad RNG and they're not like you and they grew up in a situation where they don't have intrinsic confidence. Their self-talk is not positive. their self-talk is negative, which is something you've experienced, right?

So how do we start if you were given a bad hand? And so what I'm going to teach you as a meditation technique that will neutralize your self-talk and will start to give you a sense of who you are as a person that is free from what other people think of you. Okay? So what that sort of means is that if you're not confident, I hope that you'll get a sense of like your core being. if you are confident, hopefully it'll still feel good. So there's going to be kind of a weird technique. So this technique is called B's breath.

And also it's two techniques. It's B's breath, like the breath of a B. And then the second technique is the closing of the nine gates. Okay. I know it's weird. It's going to be weird. It's going to be even weirder when you do it. But the goal is that you're going to do this technique,

and it's going to be quite enveloping for your consciousness. And then after you do this technique for a while, what it's hopefully is going to do is going to knock out your thoughts, knock out your self-talk completely, and you're going to be left with a state of self that is like super, super neutral. But the more you sit with that neutral state, the more your negative self-talk will melt away. and the more you'll be able to go to that neutral state

if you start to tilt, if you start to lose confidence. You can go ahead and yawn. Just yawn, bro. It's totally fun. It's just, you know, I'm lecturing, so it's completely fair. No, it's not that it's boring. There's been so much to die, yes, you know. I understand.

That's why I don't take it offensively, and people think it's offensive if you yon. But I lecture all the time, and people are yawning all the time, and I know it's not my fault. Just like I know that in Dota, when I jungle and my team loses, it's not my fault. It's just what happens, right?

Anyway, okay, so you ready for the technique? Yes. Okay, so this is going to be kind of weird because you're going to have to take off your headset to do it, okay? But this is going to be complicated. I'm going to show you. First, I'm going to show you the closing of the nine gates, okay? So I'm going to take my hands. Hold on.

Let me think about this. Okay. So I'm going to take my hands. This is going to be hard. Oh, shit. How can I shoot? Okay. These are my hands, right?

So my pinkies are going to go here. My middle ring finger is going to go here right outside my nose. And this is going to be kind of weird. These two fingers are going to go on either sides of my eyes like this, okay? Yeah. Okay? And then my thumbs are going to go in my ears. Like that.

So what I'm going to do is sort of block off all of the ways that my mind goes out into the external world. Okay. So the nine gates that we're closing, if we think about the way that we relate to the outside world, we do through, do, we connect to the outside world through our sense organs. Okay. And the outside world doesn't really know who we are. So what we're going to try to do is disconnect from the outside world and just be inside. Okay. Okay. So if you need an easy version, all you really need to do is close your eyes and do this. This works too. It's not as powerful, but it works. Okay. but if you have trouble doing much. Huh? That can be planned B, I guess. Yeah, that's going to be plan B. And then what we're going to do is we're going to buzz like a B. Okay, so I'm going to show you the technique.

Got me? Did that clip out? Well, I heard to start the... Yeah, that's great. So you know how to buzz, right? So why don't you take off your headset and adopt the thing? And I'm not going to be able to tell you because you won't be able to hear. But how do you feel about trying this?

This is too fucking weird? going to, it's going to be interesting. But I think, I think I have an idea. So how long do I have to do it for? We're going to do one breath. And then we're going to check in again, okay? Okay. I'll try.

Okay. So, oh, he can't hear me. So look, oh. There we go. Figured it out. Yep. Good. He can't hear me.

And then inside the ear. And then we can't really hear him. And he can't. Hear us. Okay. What was that like? I don't know. Okay.

So did you... Great. So we're going to give you one or two pointers. So the first time you do it, it just feels weird. Yeah, it felt a bit awkward, and I was kind of... The first stage was questioning what I was doing. Right. So what we want to do is power through that questioning.

So the first time you do it, you're just going to feel so uncomfortable that you're not even focusing on the problem. practice. Okay? So I'm going to give you two pointers. One is that you don't want to press on your eyes for sure. Okay? Yeah.

So if you want to, you can do this if this is easier. Like something like this is fine. You want your thumbs to be inside your ear canal. Okay. Okay. And now what I want you to do is at your own pace, do five breaths. So take a big long breath. Mm-hmm.

Okay. And then you're going to feel weird doing it. And then the second breath is going to be easier. The third breath you're going to get into it. The fourth breath, hopefully, is relatively peaceful. And the fifth breath, you may feel a little bit lightheaded, which is fine. So you can go at your own pace. If you start to feel lightheaded, you can go ahead and take a breath in between.

Like you can just, you know, take a few breaths in between the rounds. Okay. And you're going to feel super anxious and weird at the beginning. And then the whole point of the practice is that, that as you breathe, the anxiety and the feeling weird is going to go down and you're going to be centered, like, kind of in yourself. Okay. And then after the last round, I want you to just keep your eyes closed and just sit with yourself. Okay.

Okay. Let's do it together. Okay. Okay. But you're going to have to do it at your own pace. You're going to have to do at your own pace because we're not going to be able to hear each other. Okay. For sure.

Okay. Chat, you guys do it too. How are you doing? I do feel a bit light-hilled. Yeah, it can lead to that. What did you, what was your experience on it? I can, I can see where, what you said about coming to, like, a neutral state come from, because it was just, like, focusing on the breath, focusing on the, on the B sound, really.

Yeah. And just not thinking about anything else for, like, a little moment, right? and that even afterwards normally the mind wonders and you think about a billion things but even right after closing my eyes I mean I was I was thinking at a certain point like how long am I supposed to have my eyes closed right

or until that point it wasn't really thinking about anything just focusing on the breath right so as you practice this and if you don't do it on stream and you can do it on your own you'll it's going to be way easier but the whole point. So I guess this isn't really a technique to build confidence.

What this is is a technique to wipe away lack of confidence. Yeah. Right? So when you're having that negative self-talk, when your mind is full of that negativity, it's a way to flatline it. And what I would encourage you to do, if it fit for you, great, do it. If it didn't fit for you, no big deal. But I'd say if you continue to do it, you know,

sit quietly for like two minutes, three minutes, four minutes, five minutes with your eyes closed afterward. And then gradually, as your brain acclimatizes to the, you know, different level of CO2 and oxygen, you can go up to nine breaths. So nine rounds and then really just sit and it'll kind of like balance you out. Okay? Yeah. Cool. Okay.

Well, thanks a lot for coming on, man. Yeah. I mean, thanks for having me. This has been exciting. Something very, very different for me, and I enjoyed it. Yeah, man, so good luck with your, you know, the next season of when do you guys start, or are you guys already started? Well, so speaking of uncertainties, the season begins the 15th of January,

but I'm kind of waiting, waiting around now, finding out when my visa is really up all that. Yeah, I'm in Denmark. And this season begins in LA in nine days. So that's a bit of an uncertainty right there to deal with as a pro player, waiting to see when I will be able to travel. All right. Well, good luck with that, man. Yeah.

Thanks. All right. Take care. Yeah, you too, man. Bye. Bye.