HealthyGamerGG - LS Pt. 2, Destressing after 110 Hour Work Week

Episode Date: March 3, 2020

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Cool, man. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm, well, actually, I mean, well, I just had a, I just finished a really bad stream. But I think in general, I'm actually really stressed. For the last like four and a half weeks, I've had on average about 100 to 110 hour work weeks. So it's been, it's been pretty sick. I think on average I was on air like 12 to 14 hours a day at some points upwards to 18 like either casting or streaming.

So it really took its toll on my mental health. Can I ask a weird question? So I think the ad is still running for some people. Oh, God. Okay. It's running for 30 more seconds. That's so long. Maybe we should stop doing that.

But, yeah, why? So, LCK is the Korean League of Legends regional tournament that, you know, the Korean region region. There's forecasters, two color commentators and two play-by-plays. And the other color commentator still doesn't have his visa. Okay. And so not to lower the quality of the broadcast. and whatnot. I'm the only color commentator, so I was having to do five-day work weeks. Okay.

So five-day work weeks, I have to be in there by 3 p.m. And then I wasn't getting out on average until about midnight. And then I would go home, or I wouldn't go home. I actually got a hotel near the studio. It was like one minute walking distance. And I'd go back to the hotel, and then I would either live view LEC, which is the European regional tournament. Or I would power an app

and then stream the North American regional. Why? So co-streaming for North America is a new thing. It just started this season. It's the first time, like ever in the history that streamers are allowed to co-stream it.

It's the most successful thing that my streams ever have. So I think it's pretty silly if I don't do it. It's two days a week. the EU one, I actually stopped doing this past week as a means to try to better manage my mental health, I guess. So I didn't do it this last week. What effect does 110 hour work weeks have on you? So I think the first week was actually pretty okay. I managed the first week pretty fine.

the second week was a lot more stressful because the Korean League right now is it's I don't know how to like talk about it without sounding really negative it's just not it's not doing very well not not in terms of like viewership or anything like that the overall level of play is not what people would expect and then the games are what I think a lot of people would call very boring. They're like average 35 plus minutes to 40 minutes. Very dull meta state. Meta being like what champions keep popping up and whatnot.

Lots of series are going all the way to three games. And so that extends the broadcast, makes it go a lot longer. So I think by week two, that's when I started really stressing out. And I started having bouts of insomnia. again, which I've had on and off, like, the last couple of years. And I was starting to get a lot of anxiety on the broadcast. And I was feeling sick without actually being sick, like body aches and fatigue and all this other stuff. I ended up going to a clinic for it.

I got like a, it's it called like a banana bag or something? Like the nutrients and everything. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ended up getting like a banana bag. I did like a spa thing to try to help de-stress and everything. Then the coronavirus started popping up. It's very prevalent right now in South Korea.

So that started adding stressors. And I don't know. 110 hour work weeks were not healthy. This past week, I cut back the European live viewing. And I also missed one of the North American ones because I woke up to do it. And then I just thought to myself, like, there's no way I can turn the stream on. I'm not in a good mental state. There's no way I'll be okay.

And I just went back to sleep and I just rested. And then I did the next two casts. And now here we are. This is the night after. This is actually my first off day. Okay. And you're spending it awake in the middle of the night. So let's try to make this worth your, you know, let's try to make it worth your while and make sure we're not contributing to the problem.

So Ellis, what's your recollection of our last conversation? Like, what do you, what did you remember about it or takeaways? I ended up thinking a lot more about my childhood and adolescence in general. and I remember thinking that the session, or just the talk that we had in general was, it was very relieving, I guess, while it was happening and also afterwards, I thought about a lot of stuff for several days following, and then literally shortly thereafter, that's when the work weeks started. So I just, I sort of dove into everything else there.

all I remember is just going down memory lane of my life talking about various stuff. I remember talking about like the meditation stuff. I remember talking about just my thought processes, how I arrive at certain conclusions, stuff like that. And obviously I dwelled on that more and more. But I feel like ever since that session, so where we're at now, I've been. constantly on without basically any downtime. So I think there's a lot going on in my life right now as well as in my mental state that I'm trying or that I will process and filter once the noise stops.

Yeah. Yeah. So I have a lot of questions for you, but I also have some general thoughts. What would you like to start with? If you think the questions would help you, your general thoughts, then that would probably be better. Okay. Let me just think about that.

So sometimes, Ellis, I have a problem where I talk to someone for five minutes and I feel like I have a clear sense of what's going on. And then I feel like I should ask more questions because I really do want to know more stuff. But I'm inclined to actually just talk to you a little bit about my impressions of what I'm hearing. Yeah. And okay. So, Alice, here's what I think. one of your one of your challenges is i think you are in correct you have an incredibly strong willpower and i think your capacity to take parts of yourself that are busted or cracking under

pressure your your capacity to keep going in spite of signals from your mind and your body that you need to slow down is actually really really high and i think what that does is puts you in situations where like you just start to you know stuff just starts kind of falling apart. Yeah. And I think, you know, we saw this a little bit. So my recollection of our last talk was we certainly went down memory lane, but we also talked a lot about sort of how one can look at depression and that you've

struggled with depression for a long time. And I had the sense that your depression was a couple of things. One is that it's anger turned against the self, which is so psychologically like when you're learning to be a therapist, that's one of the theories that you kind of think about. which is that depression is a manifestation of anger that's directed towards you. And I think part of the way that you view yourself is actually like really, really beneficial. So when you're hard on yourself and you push yourself, you're seeing the highest numbers that you see on stream. You're casting in the Korean League.

You know, you're doing so much because you really like you push yourself really hard. And I'm curious a lot about, you know, a lot of things that you've said about, you know, you managed week one well, you're stress. out, you kind of talk about stressing and de-stressing and spa day and insomnia. I'm really curious about how much frustration, loathing, or anger do you have towards yourself in all of this stuff? Because you are working one 10-hour work weeks, and I'm curious if there's a voice inside you that says you should be able to handle this better. There was definitely many points. I remember talking to my producer. She's really good. She's like she's really good at being someone that I can talk to.

She's like my boss and then there's someone that's above her, but she runs the global production for the cast. And I remember talking with her about feeling very lost in what I was doing and feeling very paranoid and sort of confused at myself, like in between broadcasts or prior to a broadcast starting. I think I talked with her on two or three different occasions. about this stuff.

There were definitely some points where I'd leave a cast and I was actually really angry because I thought like my mental fortitude wasn't strong enough to have a good cast or I thought, what the fuck am I doing? Like what, how, what am I actually just going through? And it became a battle of yes, just pushing myself through. And if you remember the last talk, I think that'll lot of it is like fear, the motivator of not just fear in the traditional sense of how people think, but fear of missing out.

So suddenly I would start viewing, well, if I miss this stream, I miss out on potentially all of this, or then I would start having anxiety about what if I end up losing out on certain viewers or people that get ticked off? because there's a lot of other people co-streaming too. And so it gets into this really weird mental state where it's like I become afraid to miss days due to expectation. And then I get lots of messages on Twitter or DMs or Discord messages. Where am I?

Or am I doing the co-stream, et cetera? And then I get very anxious about letting that stuff down. But sometimes I just want everything to stop. I just want all the noise to stop. And this has happened a lot in the last few weeks. But it feels like obvious, like I can't. And I feel like I feel like I'm at the gym sort of, like the equivalency when your body wants to give up on an exercise that you're doing. But you know that it at the very end, it's probably better if you go through with it without obviously hurting yourself.

And so I keep I feel like I keep trying to trick myself into thinking that everything's okay but all that I'm seeing is at the end of the road like what what happens when we complete spring and summer and how is my stream going to actually be? Just got to push through.

Right? Yeah, that's literally that's literally it. I think like, so I'm halfway done with the LCK where we're halfway done now starting next week and then there's off season. So there's a two month break. and I was planning about, or I was actually planning to go back to the States for like a month or two and just stop everything because I've just been on too much the last few months.

And now the coronavirus thing, I have no idea what's going to happen with travel regulations and all this other stuff. So it's another headache and I'm like, oh, fuck, what's going to happen with corona? It's a big question. Everyone's asking. Yeah. And then it sucks. So that's something I'm thinking about. But I view these really big breaks that are coming.

So April May or end of April May is a big break. And then there's another break before Worlds. Typically there's like one, one and a half month break. And then obviously post-worlds, there's a big off-season. So I feel like these are just milestones that I have to hit, sort of like reps or something. Yeah. So I completely understand that that's how you feel about things. And I think you made a really interesting caveat when it comes to the gym.

You said it's really important to push through provided you don't hurt yourself. Yes. And I think your problem is that is what, Ellis? Well, not knowing whether or not it's going to hurt myself, right? Or I don't know. I don't know, man. Stressing out insomnia, anxiety, body aches, going to the clinic and getting a banana bag. You know what a banana bag is, basically?

It's a lot of like, well, I mean, you said electrolytes and stuff. It's a lot of minerals and stuff that the body needs, nutrients. Yeah, do you know why most people don't get banana bags? Most people aren't lacking all those things or they're not. Do you know why most people aren't lacking those things? They're living a normal, healthy work week, etc. No, no, no. So let's pause for a second.

Let's just understand this very clearly, okay? Okay. A lot of people live unhealthy lives. Okay. Right? Like a lot of people don't eat healthy. That's true. Yeah.

And like, and they don't need banana bags. People who need banana bags are people who are severely dehydrated. And like people who, like a good example of people who get banana bags or people who have severe alcoholism and don't do anything except for drink alcohol. They get all their calories. from alcohol. They don't, they like literally like people who get banana bags or people who do not eat food and do not drink water or other kinds of things. Okay. So like, how's your food been? I'm actually eating really well. Um, I actually gained weight. So amidst all of this, through the stress, I've actually gained weight because I've been stressed eating. Yep. So what about drinking fluids?

Um, I actually drink quite a lot. Uh, at riot. there's a lot of, well, the drinks suck, but there's a lot of stuff for the talent backstage. Okay. Okay. I probably, yeah. How often do you urinate? I go through a lot of water bottles, tea, etc. How often do you urinate? I would say several times a day. What color is your urine? Yeah, it's pretty, it's either almost see-through or very light yellow. Okay. So I know, I notice that I get darker yellow. Yeah, there's problems. Yeah. So, I mean, like, what do you, so, um, I just wanted to make sure that, you know, medically or even though I don't dispense medical advice over the internet, just want to make sure that you're really not in a situation where there's something that could be going on. Yeah. So it sounds like you're actually eating and drinking okay. Um, yeah. I want to kind of, so let me just stop for a second. So I think, Ellis, there are a couple things we can talk about today. One is that we can dig into what stressing out means, what anxiety is, what insomnia is. I think we can also talk a little bit about psychosomatic and what that term means. I think, though, that so we can talk about each of those things, and that's sort of like standard stuff, right?

Like stress, anxiety, all insomnia. The other thing, though, is that I think at the root of this is that you have this fear or you have something that drives you. And the thing is, that driver is like a taskmaster with a whip. and like you don't need a banana bag unless like you're like you've whipped yourself into exhaustion. Yeah. And so I think going forward, you know, if you want like this is not a sustainable solution. Like working 110 hour weeks for months at a time and then taking a month or two off and then working another like 110 hour week for, you know, a couple months at a time and then taking another month off. And then you also have to remember that like during your month off like you're.

not going to be, you're not another person, you're actually still L.S. So like during that month off, you're still going to have lots of thoughts about like missed opportunities and should you be doing this. And so like it's not even going to be a month off. Like, do you see that? Like the month off is just an illusion because you're still going to be you during those times. Yeah, I'm always connected. I'm always lined in. And when I, when I'm not lined in, I feel anxious. Yep. So it's like either you, either you take a step back and then you have to deal with your crippling. Anxieties you like force yourself to relax, right? Because that like that's just a weird paradox, you know? Yeah. It's like anxiety provoking relaxation is like an oxymoron.

And but because that's who you are. So I think what we've really got to change is you, man. Like this is not a good plan. And we have to we have to really dig into or I feel, you know, this we have to dig into what it is that drives you. Like who's the taskmaster? And why do you have to do all things. Why do you have to, why do you have to push yourself clearly past your breaking points? And, and the challenge here is that you're so resilient that you like, how can I say this? Yeah, I mean, you're just so resilient that you like have gotten used to pushing yourself past the, like a good limit. Like, you're at the gym, but you just, you injure yourself every time you work out because you've just gotten used to injuries. And like, that's got to stop, dude.

like, you know. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I don't know what to say in that regard. Mostly, I think a lot of that, I think we touched on it briefly last time. We talked where I feel like I'm cognizant that where I am right now in the esports community or the scene is a very ridiculously fortunate

position, the position that I'm in. But I see how quickly things change in this industry and how quickly just everything gets completely thrown around and whatnot. And I feel like due to the way that I got here as well as how I stay within the community right now, it feels like I can't afford to turn off. And it creates this really weird loop where at the same time, I think I mentioned this to last time that after e-sports or something, I don't know what I do yet. And so that's another scary question. I just entered into my mid-20s.

But that's kind of old in e-sports, if you don't have anything else going for you or going on. And I feel like there's a lot of expectations on me. I feel like there's a lot of people that want to see me fail. And so that in a way, no, it's, it is a thing. So what's up with that? I think there's a lot. Well, so I don't know how much you know about my persona or whatever from league. Pretty controversial. I think that most people either love or hate me. I think there's no gray area. I think that the way that

I I don't I'm the way that I talk in league setting maybe you don't get it here or something because we're not in a league setting or something it's very agitates a lot of people

pisses people off I don't know so anyways really what do you say that pisses people off fair There it is. I don't know how to... Okay, so...

Okay. I can... No, I know. I don't know how to describe this myself. So I can get pretty tilted. So anger is a really interesting word. You asked me last time if I get angry. I don't...

Yeah? So I use anger as a way to describe it, but I don't think that's the emotion that I'm actually feeling. What is the emotion you're feeling? Okay. Let me think about this. Can I guess? It's sort of...

It's not impatient. It's like impatience. Can I guess? Yeah, go ahead. Is it fucking ridiculous? What is? Is it like a sense of fucking ridiculous? Yes.

Well, yeah, sure. Yeah. It's just like, this is fucking ridiculous. Is that what it feels like? Yeah, yeah. So it, I feel constantly on defense, pretty much no matter what. And I think that because of how much time I commit into the game, whether by working or spending time on it or spending time on others that are like around me,

like pro players or people that are like living with me that are trying to get careers or do certain things in the game. I feel like the amount of commitment and time I spend into it, anything about the game almost ends up becoming personal because of how deep I am. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah. I'm trying to make sense of it. And so I take things really personal.

And I was having a conversation with someone the other day. Actually, I think actually, I was going to ask you, like, if you saw someone go on television and you saw someone state something that was clearly untrue and you have a way of showing that it's untrue, but it's very difficult to do so. Like the earth is flat. Yeah. That's the one that I use lately. Yes, yes, yes.

So, like it's fucking ridiculous. Right, right, right. So if you can show someone, the earth isn't flat, but you can't do it verbally. There's no way to get people to concede verbally, right? If you're confronted with a flat earther and you try to explain to them the way that certain things work, they either will or won't accept it. But if they come from the standpoint that you're already wrong, it feels like there's nothing you can say verbally that can ever convince them. Sure.

And in order to convince them, you need to physically show it in some way. But if you can never get to the physical part, it's like a fucking barrier that I just, I can't. Jesus Christ, I just want to fucking bash my head against a wall. And then due to the nature of analysis in video games or strategy games or RTSs, or strategy games, real time strategy. verbal talks become extremely frustrating and angering, especially if things are taken out of context or all this other stuff. So it becomes very stressful. And when I deal with certain arguments or confrontations and stuff, I don't think that I handle them the best that I could, especially in the moment.

especially if what I'm hearing, I think, is nonsense. And then as a byproduct of that, it feels like bystanders will only see me get angry, right? Or they'll see me get impatient and frustrated, and then I feel like it has a negative recourse on me. Why do you have to convince that? I'm sorry, you were saying it led you to a point that sounded like you were actually offering an important conclusion. Yeah, so the, the, the, the, So it's led me to a point where I basically only want to interact with certain people within the community, but I don't think that's healthy because I want to progress thinking within the game in the community.

I want to progress the way that people see strategy things and everything, because I've been playing games all my life, started at age two and three. And then competitively, I've been involved in e-sports since age 12. So, you know, I'm going on two decades. Okay. And it's my whole life. Can I? Oh, yeah.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm going to need a minute, okay. You're just sharing so much that I think is actually really, like, everything you say is laden with importance and has been reflected upon.

I think every, the problem that I'm having is. that like I can't I don't know you're giving me a thousand roads to walk down I think all of what you're good yeah I know and I yeah it sucks I feel I I'm actually nervous even saying what I'm saying right now why people say well um I don't know uh last video we did uh obviously uh I would call it success like you know got a lot of viewership on YouTube etc I think that there's a lot of people again in the league community um that will take what I'm saying right now is uh egotistical or overly arrogant or thinking that I'm always right or something like that and it has nothing to do with that and it's just holy shit please um and I don't know I don't know what to describe it as it's a very awkward thing when I have to I I choose to live in a glass hot house because I feel like it's my only defense

uh what I mean by that is like I I I'm always basically on air or I'm always open to the public I've open DMs I defend you against Lies or Friacations From whom? Oh, Jesus. Anyone, really. I guess it's just It's something I developed

I started doing years ago. Esports is a pretty weird industry. I think that lies, fabrications, half-truths, etc. can spread a lot. And then word of mouth is way too strong. And things can be taken out of context way too easily, especially clips, for instance.

I mean, you might know about that from Twitch. Like, you see a clip on a context. It doesn't really tell you the whole story. And people can misconstrue certain things, and I feel like that's very frustrating. And then I get frustrated because I'm open to talking to literally anyone at any time. And, I don't know. We've gone a lot of places right now.

Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. No, I'm glad you're sharing so much. So let's just start with. Where we ended off. Oh, L.S. Okay. Let's just think for a second, okay? Yeah. Can I get water really quick? Yeah, go for it.

Do you care? Okay. All right, thanks. I'll be right back. One second. Of all of the things you can do, get waters at the top of the list. So I know that Twitch chat thinks that Mitch Jones is the right boss. I feel like L.S. is the right boss, man. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Hello? Hey. Hi. So being misunderstood

Being misunderstood really bothers you Yeah Yeah And so if we think a little Oh hold on a second Hello What Okay

I was just informed that there's an ad running right now Because you want to go get water Okay Which is great because I need some time to think Okay Oh man so much Okay let me just take notes Okay

I can do this. Okay, I think I can do this. Cheers. Okay. So, first of all, you remember last time, like, so one of the big things that I remembered about last time was that I felt like you needed more, you needed to experience more anger. Like, we talked last time about how you essentially blamed yourself for all kinds of bad things that happen around you instead of being angry with other people. Yeah. Okay. So my general sense, I'm going to use this phrase bursting at the seams. Okay. Yeah. And what I, what I, what I, what I'm getting from you, LS is that you're basically bursting at the seams. I think you have a lot of stuff that's going on inside of you that doesn't have a way to get out. And so you're like bursting at the seams and there's like leakage. So my sense is that you have a lot of suppression. And this is why it. it feels so overwhelming and multifactorial because it's like it's like firing on like it's so many

different directions there's insomnia there's physical problems there's anger there's uncertainty about your future there's a community that's hating you there's some kind of weird defenses that you set up for yourself a community that loves you there's expectation there's you know like like strike while the iron is hot and right now it's the gold rush and you're going to california because that's where the gold is and like e-sports and like soon it's all going to be over. There's just so much. Yeah. Like just listening to you is overwhelming.

Like I can't even imagine what living in your life is like. Like it's like you can't catch a break anywhere. And I think that that's that's something we've got to just figure out because that's just not. I mean, you're you're screwed, my friend, if you continue doing what you're doing and going at this pace. Oddly enough, you may be very successful, but I think you're going to pay for that success. And I do believe that you can continue to be successful without bursting at the seams. So let's start with this. You don't like being misunderstood. You're talking to flat earthers,

and they don't understand, and you can't show them, and you just want them, you want them to understand. You want them to understand your viewpoint. You want them to understand, like, what you're saying you want like you want you want to be like on the same team with them you don't want to be oppositional with them there's some amount of frustration there's some amount of inability to show them and then the other thing that i think go for it or or or i want them to show me why the whatever it is that i'm trying to say against their flat earth is actually wrong fine right that isn't just a i think it runs deeper so then the other thing is that that this rolls into your identity So I want you to understand this very clearly, okay?

So I'm getting the sense that you can't separate an argument from you. Like it becomes about you. Yes. Right? It's not about like convincing, like it's not, it's not sterile. It's not, it's not like scientific. It's not mathematical. It's like investment in who you are as a person.

Like there's, you're rolled up into this. Does that make sense? You're invested. Yes. Yeah, I think that goes to what I was saying about how deep I am in e-sports. Yep. I also won't. Well, I won't say I won't, but I think oftentimes I won't even engage in a conversation

if I don't actually feel comfortable talking about it. I don't know if there's like a word for that or phrase. Do you get what I mean? Like you're avoidant unless you're comfortable? Unless I feel comfortable and competent in the material. Yeah. So I think this comes back to like you're you're terrified of being misjudged. Yes. Where does that come from? I mean, I would imagine it obviously stems from something in childhood.

Yeah. We've talked about it before. At the same time, I don't know if it really does. Okay. and the reason that I say I don't know if it really does is because I think the way that I thought of myself as a preteen and as an adolescence was the opposite of what like teachers and therapists and psychiatrists, psychologists, except that thought of me. They thought better of me than I thought of myself.

And so I guess that's a misjudged thing, but I don't know how to articulate those. So I'm going to just toss a Hail Mary. Okay, so first of all, things aren't as simple as I make them out to be, okay? So I think it's more complicated. The first thing is, as I'm hearing you talk, the thing that I remember is actually that you had some behavioral problems, right? Am I mixing you up with someone else? Behavioral problems in what sense? Like, did you get into trouble at school?

I was truant and forced to drop out of high school. Yeah. And so... My education effectively, it stopped in like seventh grade, effectively. Yeah. Eighth grade. So last time we met, we talked about... Okay.

So what are you... As you mentioned that, what are you feeling? What? As you mentioned, the truancy and what happened to you and... Um, I don't really mind it. I remember thinking that I wasn't going to use school or EDU for anything. And I remember thinking in like ninth grade, 10th grade, etc. I would just wait for my class to finish so that I could get the,

I could take the GED test because I thought the material on the GED was really simple. But there's the law that you have to wait for your graduating class. Or you can take the test, but you have to wait for them to receive the diploma. something like that. I don't know. I didn't want to go to school because I didn't feel safe or comfortable at school. Not because anything like in particular, just a lot of things, I guess. I was truant all the time. I don't feel anything in particular, I guess.

So I'm trying to figure out maybe this isn't related, but, you know, there was a powerful story that you told last time about, you know, when you were like going through the truancy. hearing or something like that. One of the teachers kind of like stopped and was like, no one is asking, everyone's talking about punishing him. Yeah. But no one is asking like, why is he doing the things that he does? Yeah. Is there anything about that sentiment about being misjudged, judged by people held accountable for things that aren't your fault that translates to today? Um, I would, yeah, I guess I would, uh, would say so. Um, Because it felt like it felt like speaking the foreign language.

No one understood me. And it felt like people around me that didn't understand me didn't make any efforts to try to understand. And that was a very frustrating thing. Sort of like what we're talking about right now, where it's like this is fucking ridiculous. Like why don't these, why don't these things, this context, why doesn't any of this matter to you?

Because it should all matter. And yet, for some fucking unholy reason, it doesn't. And it just, it doesn't make sense to me who, my whole thing is I try to run through so many scenarios and things in my head. And I don't understand why other people don't do the same. Or they don't even attempt to understand. Yeah. So, I mean, I think the fucking ridiculous is kind of a good.

sentiment and and there's also something that's kind of like flat earthish about this to me you know where it's sort of like people just really do not try to understand it it's just and so i'm not sure if i'm if it's too loose of an association but something of what um uh i i guess i would ask you what like so to add some context some of the stuff that i come out with in the league scene right that has led to a lot of controversy, is imagine, because I don't know what games you play, imagine that everything is the way that it is,

and then you come along and say, no, this stuff's wrong, I can show that it's wrong, but then a lot of people will outwardly dismiss it. So maybe an analogy I can make here is like in science. If it is a... You could just tell me about league.

Oh, okay. So in league, there's a lot of concepts that I guess RTS. So interestingly enough, I've had lots of conversations with RTS players, and they accept it a lot better than mobile players do. And it's the most fucking brain blasting thing in the world. It blows my mind. So in League of Legends, there will be instances in pro play where there's no objective on the map. Right. There's, do you play league?

Sure. No. Okay. I understand league. No? I play Dota. Okay. You play Dota.

Okay. So is there neutral objectives in Dota? Yeah. Like big things? Okay. So imagine there's no neutral objective. Yeah, sure. Like Barron.

Great. Yeah. So imagine there's no neutral up, right? And that means that there's nothing to really contest. Or standing gold on turrets can be about 500, right? 500 is about 200. is about two and a half million waves worth of gold without factoring in experience. Okay.

So if you're winning, right, if the enemy shoves a wave too quickly, for example, this can allow you to take that wave and pull it really far up your lane and then freeze. And then those minions can kill your incoming minion wave over and over several times. It can actually net you a higher gold value than a turret would, like it like, like, a standing gold turret. And not even factoring in XP. It also reduces the amount of options both you have and your opponents have on the map because everything, the variables are reduced. It becomes very clear cut, like using conductive reasoning, what can and can't happen. Okay. So this is, this is one of the more like recent things that's happened. What do you mean by freeze? What does freeze mean?

freezes, they, so for instance, if they had six minions and you had six minions and they sort of clash, they killed your six minions. You take their six minions and you run it up your lane without killing them. Yep. Now, when the next waves come, they'll have 12 minions and you'll still have six. So your six minions will die. And if you can hold that by freezing, like keeping them at a certain point and just constantly holding it there, they are forced to come and eventually break it. Or they're forced to come and eventually break it. Or they're, they're forced to do something else on the map. Okay. But if you're winning and your champions are stronger and you have more items, obviously they cannot arbitrarily just teleport anywhere on the fucking map, where they can't just randomly dive a turret because turrets are still really strong, the champions are still weak. You can end up getting more gold in creating a larger net difference between you and the enemy team as well as experience by just freezing. And then obviously you know, okay, well, you can only go into a few places.

So I've had this conversation with lots of RTS players. It's pretty easily accepted. But with mobile players, for some fucking reason, it's like flat earth. And it just doesn't make any sense. The really weird thing is in the community, some people, even people with high stature within the community will say that you can't freeze or it's not possible, blah, blah, blah. I have so many examples of freezing at professional play from pro players. And there's also a lot of pro players that are on this in alignment that freezing can exist. But there are also pro players that are like, no, you can't freeze because we can just do A, B, C, and D.

And it's a very frustrating thing because it feels very akin to flat earth where I, sort of like the misjudge thing, will never assert that a team can freeze unless I really think that it's possible. Like, I'm not just going to arbitrarily say, oh, they should just blanketly freeze. So variables and conditions have to be met for it to occur as like a strategical maneuver. And there's clear upside that is related to like economy. Economy management is a thing that is very common in RTSs. And when suddenly, not common in Mova. And in MoBas, players tend to only think about their one champion. But in RTSs, you think

about lots of important champions and lots of different important locations and you're forced to make a, you know, a major decision on how you're going to allocate and do certain things. And so because my first games were StarCraft 1, StarCraft 2 and whatnot,

and also playing card games, economy and resource management and like how long it takes units to move across the map, timing attacks, how much damage they do, how little can you actually have and still defend. These are all RTS things, like playing risk or monopoly or lots of board games. And I just,

I want to blow my fucking brains out when someone with pretty high stature maybe in the community will come along and assert that it's not possible. And I feel like I'm speaking a different language. So then there's the, there's the problem where I can get certain other people to agree and certain other pro players. And I can also have clear cut examples. playing against some of the top regional teams in the world, right? Videos, video proof, tangible evidence, things that can be replicated, quantifiable things.

Still, there's just something to fucking exist where people, they'll throw blanket statements, Hail Mary's, like they'll say that vision's important, or they'll say that champions can just dive a turret. And it's an impossible argument to really handle verbally. Or that's how I feel. Ellis, first of all, this is way better for me.

This is a glimpse. You're just talking about one thing now. So this is easier for me to manage. So now we still get to, we still get to just the core issue, which is why is it important to you to convince these people? Well, I feel like it's a part of my job. But also, I want, well, my job is to analyze and coach. Fine. So your job is to analyze.

So hold on a second. So analysis, you're a coach? Well, I have, I mean, I still do freelance coaching for various, like, LCS and LAC players. So analysis is very different from convincing people. Like, why do you feel like you have to convince people? Okay, so if you were a scientist and you discovered certain things, but the scientific board says that you're wrong, that can actually really harm your career. potentially. It can call into question your credibility. And then it becomes very frustrating if you

can quantify or replicate the things that you're talking about, like a test, right? Like you can, I mean, that's how it works in science, so that you can go and recreate. If you talk about freezing and how it creates an economic advantage, barring certain circumstances like no neutral objectives on the map, how does that affect your career? if lots of people dissent against it, some that are even prolific within the community, that can be really bad. Because then if I get labeled as, so some people genuinely think I'm a contrarian. I say things just to disagree, dissent against the majority opinion, etc. That is very damning.

And then you tell them, no, I'm not. Then I tell them, no, you're a fucking flat earther. Like, holy shit. So like It gets It is insane to me No I'm not You're a fucking flat earther

Yes You're a catarion I get really I get really I think maybe You're familiar with the term triggered Yeah And I will sit here in my house

With some of the people I live with One of them is actually one of the He might be the highest ranked Western Terran StarCraft 1 player still In StarCraft 1 Nyokin, who's WCG USA finalists a couple of times, whatever, and StarCup 1.

Anyway, so anyways, I talk with him. I talk with Max, a person that I live with, and we will just sit there for two to three hours and literally play devil's advocate, trying to figure out ways to strangle these fucking conversations. And it's so insufferable. Yeah, man. So look, what I want to point out to you is that convincing someone, right?

So convincing the scientific board. So you've made it clear. Sorry, I keep on having false starts with sentences. That's okay. My words can't catch up to what my mind is kind of thinking about. So let me just think for a second. So, Ellis, I think a big problem that you run into is that your logic is good. So when we think about, you know, when you think about sort of the gold rush of e-sports right now

and you think about missed opportunities and uncertainty about the future, your logic is good. right so if now for the first time you can co-stream league events that's not an opportunity you want to miss out on because like once the field gets saturated and people like go to particular streamers like it's hard to start streaming later there is the problem is that your logic is good and when it comes to the the potential impact of you know being viewed as a contrarian or disrespected by other people in the community how that affects your standing in how that affects your professional situation, that also the logic is good, not disagreeing with any of your logic. What I'm curious about is your personal investment, right? So if I'm a scientist and I... So, I mean, I do this, right?

So I go to, let's say, like, I have a prospective collaboration with, like, MIT for Healthy Gamer and Studying Video Game Addiction. So I kind of go to some people. we've also had calls with other institutions or organizations and actually had a great call with riot a couple of weeks ago so we you know if I go to someone and I say like hey I think this is important and they say no we disagree we don't think it's important that can be strategically bad but like I don't have to get bent out of shape

what I'm really curious about is why you get so personally bent out of shape like what about this is triggering or tilting like as people can be idiots but what's your personal investment like flat like so flat earthers you know or idiotic I think but growing up

I was called a liar a lot because there were phases of my life where I did have to lie a lot because there would be instances where with my family, they would ask me a question, and if I knew that if I responded truthfully or honestly, it would result in an outburst or something physically uncomfortable would occur. Okay. And so as a means to diffuse the situation, I would lie instantly, and I would develop ways to lie instantly.

And that stuck with me through preteen as well as teenage life. So even when I stopped lying, once I felt more safe and secure with my own identity, as well as just knowing how certain situations when are going to go, et cetera, I think there's something about, so this actually goes back to the living in a glass house, recording everything, et cetera. I think that if I present something and someone just says no, it's wrong, I feel like that is very akin to being called a liar. And when it's about a job that I'm so invested into emotionally and physically with the amount of time that I sink into it, it disturbs me on a really pretty deep emotional level that I think other people with my same job titles wouldn't actually understand. stand because this is all that I do.

And it's not that I can't be wrong. What is disturbing you on an emotional level? What gets disturbed? It blows my mind how how I don't know how to describe this. I'm trying to think. I don't know how to answer it. There's like a lot of different images in my head and I don't know how to translate them

to words. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. So I think, so let me, Ellis, I think we're getting somewhere. And I think the basic issue here is that you're not fighting the individual battle from today. You're fighting a host. Every conversation that you have with people, every disagreement that you have with people about strategy, like you said, it makes you feel like a liar. Right. And so what it's actually evoking within you is like all of that stuff. So, so. So I think the reason you're so invested personally in these conversations, which frankly sounds kind of idiotic, right? So there's a saying in Sanskrit that's Pes Agar Bhagwatt, or my language. And Pes Agar Bhagwath means reading the Bible to a buffalo. And it's like you're just going to get frustration. Like some situations are the equivalent of trying to read the Bible to a buffalo. And it's just dumb.

Like if you try to do it, you can try to read. read as beautifully and as convincingly as you want. But at the end of the day, you're just talking to a buffalo. So they're just not going to understand. And what I hear you doing is like trying really, really hard to convince people. And to me, it sounds, you know, your, your arguments have logic, but I don't think that your need to convince them, even though standing within the community and stuff is like all important. There's clearly something else that's driving you because like flat eartherness and standing in the community are like completely separate issues. The flat earthenness about the the ridiculousness of it, the perception of

being a liar, the sort of living your life in a glass house, all of these things have nothing to do with your standing in the community. They're adaptations or maladaptations, and we can talk about that, to like helping you manage like whatever this thing is on the inside. Yes. And I think what happens with you is that when you get into an argument with someone, you're trying to convince everyone in your past in that moment. And this is kind of weird and messed up, but unfortunately it's just how our mind works,

just the rules of the game. You're trying to convince everyone who thought you were a liar. Right? Like everyone who judged you and everyone who said this kid is wrong, this kid is crazy, this kid is stupid. And you're trying to fight like, all of those battles in that moment, because that's the only way that you can get so much emotional energy into an individual conflict. Because it can't, you just can't be that bent out

of shape arguing with some noob on a discussion forum about whether you're strapped, like, it just doesn't make sense. Yeah, I know. Right? And like, that's the condition of the internet. So if we look at like toxicity and anger and tilting on the internet, like, do you really think, every guy who gets super, super bent out of shape is like teeply and personally invested in every single Reddit thread that they post in? No. It's like misdirected anger and toxicity and misjudgment. Like in the rest of their world, and I see this a lot. Like the more ashamed you are of yourself in the real world,

the more important it is for you to maintain a respectable online persona. Because all of their shame, like they use like, you know, they teach noobs on the internet like you smurf in lull so that you can feel good about yourself and like generally speaking the people who smurf you know like suck in life or are not confident in themselves in some way right and that's that's my personal toxicity towards smurfs because i have an issue with it so i say these suck at life right but anyway yeah yeah so that's interesting you brought that up my point is that like like you know you're not just talking to a person there's like a whole pile of stuff and this goes

back to like bursting at the seam. So like let me just tell you like just listen to this. Okay. So stressing out, stressed insomnia, fear about the future, anxiety. It's my whole life. Psychosomatic stuff, physical stuff, anger, you know, flat earthers. You just can't understand it. Your whole life is caught up in this like e-sports, like respect, financial security. Like this, like this all this this go I get imposter syndrome a lot sometimes when I have these arguments in these conversations and then so in the first meeting that we had

you asked if I end up blaming myself so at the end of this I blame myself because I think that there's a better way to attack the arguments and attack the problems yeah so but then I wonder if I'm fucking crazy or something and you know like so it's a loop

yeah absolutely Absolutely. So, Ellis, here's my point. Like, when someone says there are 50 million things wrong, I just don't think that there are 50 million things wrong. So one of my supervisors when I was in med school, or like one of the psychiatrists I was working, one of the people inspired me to go to psychiatry, once told me that if any patient has three diagnoses, they're all wrong. So sometimes, like, we'd get these patients that have like, they had this freaking alphabet of diagnoses. MDD, GAD, PTSD, ADD, you know, like, it's like just a bunch of letters. And it's like, that's not like, I don't think that this person has four discrete processes that are going on in their like mind. I don't think they have like four different circuits that are busted. Like there's one like like there's common stuff. There's something that is manifesting is depression, manifesting is anxiety, making it difficult for them to concentrate. And oftentimes it's trauma.

Like trauma is like where all those crap starts. and you've had your fair share. And so I think that when you have all of these like issues around, you know, stressing out insomnia, like, I don't think that's the problem. I think the basic problem is that you've got some stuff from the past which, like, acts on the present. And you don't deal with the stuff from the past. So another way to kind of say that is you said the first week went well. Like earlier, like at the very beginning of this conversation, you said, I managed week one well, week two is when the problem. started. And I wanted to stop you right there. And I was like, no, my friend, the mistake was in week one.

Because week one is when you let that shit, the problem is that the only time you notice that there's trash to be emptied is when your trash can is overflowing. That's what your life looks like in a nutshell. Like the problem is that you're like, oh, there's like trash on the floor. Oh, maybe I like, oh, like there's that my trash can is overflowing. So let me just take all of the stuff on the top that's spilling. out and throw that away. And we're going to leave all the other trash in the trash can. We're just going to take all the stuff that's spilling over the top and we're going to deal with that. But your problem is in that first week. You're kind of saying like, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to crucify myself for one 10 hour work weeks because they're a really good

opportunities here. And then I'll take a break later. And then I'm going to go back to crucifying myself. Your whole system of managing whatever it is that you're managing, I think, is not working well. And that's why it's like you have stuff. stuff that's like seeping out. It's like getting like tilting it at nobs who don't understand. Like I don't I don't get and I mean I do get but I'm going to just say like so you know if you really understand the validity of your argument and someone is too fucking dumb to get it. Like that makes me feel like once you sort of get that you don't try to convince them anymore

because you realize it's a lost cause. But you get tilted. And then like your body also starts giving out. You get like allergen and asthma problems and stuff like that. And so it's just like literally like you're you're building up. I don't know. I wish there was like some word for, you know, like deep, like not debuff. It's like you're just building up like stress.

It's like you have a stress. If you play darkest dungeon, this is what it is. No. You guys played? Okay. So like in Darkest Dungeon, it's a fantastic game, by the way. I mean, if you're like into competitive games and stuff like, it's a single player game. So in Darkest Dungeon, it's like cool. So you have this party, right? And like the idea behind this is like your party is going to get screwed. So like your characters die. There's Permadeth. They like get like, they literally get PTSD and they like can't fight properly and stuff like that. It's like an amazing epic game. And so what happened.

So Darkest Dungeon introduced a really cool concept in gaming, which I don't see very much, which is we always have like HP bars and MP bars. We have like resources that we use up and diminish over time and then when we get empty we die. Like when you run out of HP is when you die. And HP starts full and you kind of run out of HP. So Darkest

Dungeon actually did the opposite too where they added this stat called stress. And as your stress increases, your character like gets screwed. So like you're in this dungeon where like people are getting like every time you get a critical, every time your character gets critically hit, everyone in your party gets like, like stress. So like stress is like zero out of 200.

So they got like nine points of stress. And then once you win hit 100, they like they have to make like some kind of check. And if they like hit 100 and they don't make that check properly, they get like some kind of permanent debuff. They get like a 30% mischance or like they lose like, you know, like their disease resistance goes down. Sometimes they start to panic and they like won't act. Like instead of like attacking, they'll just sit there and shit their pants.

And like, so I think it's a cool game. I love the game. But in your case, I think what's happening is you're building up stress. Like there's some meter within you that is filling up. And it's like your trash can is filling up, filling up, filling up. And the only time you notice it is when it overflows. And then what you try to manage is the overflow. It's like, I'm exhausted, haven't slept.

Let me go get a banana bag. That's like taking the five bits of trash from the top of your. trash can and like taking them out and throwing them away and leaving your trash can left over. Yeah. And the trash can is filled up in week one. Like you put your body, like the other problem is that you're so resilient and your willpower is so strong that you can tolerate, like it's like your you know, your constitution can tolerate rotting food in your trash can. Whereas like other people can't tolerate that so they clean out their trash. In a bizarre way, your capacity, your constitution and your resilience allow you to propagate unhealthy situations to the breaking point.

And there's something really bizarre that I see in some people, which is that some people suffer like consequences, you know, when they're at 70%, 50%, 30%. And some people don't bend. Some people only break. And I think you fall into this category where like you can function at a very high level until your breaking point and then you just snap. Yes. And the solution to that happens. The snaps happen. Absolutely, man.

They, no, they happen almost if I could like pull in some of my roommates or something to like answer. I mean, no, I'm not going to. I'm just saying the cycles tend to be about nine weeks. And then there's a very big snap. And then everything goes away. and it's like it's back to zero. The snaps are really scary. Not like, I don't know how to describe them.

Yeah. So this is important for people who are watching too. So I want you guys to understand, like, your pattern is not uncommon. In fact, when it comes to gamers, I think they're remarkably resilient. So I think that gamers are very good at dealing with just gigantic piles of like negative emotion and other stuff. right that's why we all procrastinate and like don't deal with our problems and stuff like that and then like we have this you know it's like you've got this basement that's just full of crap and in your case i i just don't think that your life is going to continue to be sustainable

and the challenge no i don't the challenge is that none of your logic is wrong right like so from a career standpoint it may be a good idea to stream lc yes it may be a good idea to work 110 hours a week but i i think that working 110 hours a week and at the same time spending half of your energy tilting at noobs. Like, you just don't have the energy to tilt at noobs. Like, not if you're working 110 hours a week. I think this most recent week, Saturday, my co-caster, his name is Brendan Daldas. I remember before Set 2 started, I was actually welling up, and I sort of like laughed to him,

and I said, I'm just going to, I'm going to have a breakdown. And he looked at me like, what's wrong? and I said, I don't fucking know. And I started panicking because usually when I'm in a work mode, I won't have a breakdown. Or I won't have like a snap. But five minutes before the cast went live, I was welling up. My legs were shaking. And I'm like, holy shit, I'm just going to start crying.

And I fucking was just feeling so many emotions. managed to get it together, cast the second series, went home, and fucking, it just went right to sleep. But that was a very unsettling thing. But sometimes there's just moments where all I want to do is cry and scream. And I just want everything to stop. So I completely agree with you. What do you do then, LS? When you want to cry and scream.

So you do cry and scream. Oh yeah, sometimes I ask I ask roommates to like leave the house and stuff and it's like literally something odd with like a fucking drama or like you know something you'd watch on Netflix I literally just have an emotional breakdown

and I'm like okay I'm reset as fucking crazy as that sounds I'm like let's do it again yeah man oh fuck me holy shit yeah so uh so now we're gonna talk about

we're going to talk about adaptive and maladaptive. Okay? So we, I'm glad you're able to share all this stuff. Hopefully, you know, the nubes won't attack you for your freezing strategy because of what you're saying here today. And so let's just, so I want people to understand this too. So I, so your body, your mind, and your brain does the best that it can with the crap that you throw at it. Right? Like, that's just how, like, and so what happens is, as we deal with emotions, like, we're not really taught this stuff, which is a huge, huge problem. Like, we are not really taught how to deal with emotions. We're not really taught, like, how our mind works. We're not really taught this stuff. So our body just comes up and we come up with the best solutions that we can, which are sort of adaptive and maladaptive. It's adaptive because if we think about, like, an adaptive, you know, evolutionary trait, it's something that allows us to succeed in a particular environment. And in your case, like, I think this sort of reset, breakdown, whatever you have every nine weeks is like, it's actually like helps you succeed.

Like, like, because you just, you know, you have all these emotions that kind of build up, build up, build up. You're like, okay, five minutes before cast, I'm welling up. I'm about to break down. Okay, like, let me just, let me shove. Like, this is like when you take your hands and you like shove the trash. You pack the trash in your trash can. You pack it down so that you can put more trash in there. We're going to pack it down.

we're going to pack it down more, put more shit in there, more trash in there. And then so, like, that's the strategy, right? And then every once in a while, like, what happens is your trash can starts to bulge. And then it starts to ferment and it produces acid. And then, like, one day, like, just your trash can just breaks and, like, falls apart. And there's crap all over, you know, your kitchen. And then you scoop it all up and you clean it all out. And then you go and you get yourself another, you know, paper trash can.

And then you put it there. And it's the same trash can that you used last time. You're not going to get a metal one. You can use the same one. You get yourself a trash bag. You put it in. And then you just start shoving stuff in there again. So, but that works for you.

Right. So like this is the crazy thing. When we think about all of this stuff that you're describing, insomnia, you know, anxiety, anger, tilting, breakdowns. Like we look at that and we say like, oh, this must be mental illness. Incorrect. this is your system of adaptation. There's also something very important to understand.

Our mind does the best that it can. And so even situations like anxiety, is it like an illness? Sure. But in a lot of experience that I've seen, anxiety serves a very, very important mechanism. So usually anxiety is protective. So anxiety keeps us from doing the things that are going to make us like look and feel dumb. Right? Like it protects other people from ridiculing us.

If you really stop and think about it, like, that's what it's doing. So anxiety is a way that we can protect ourselves from being, like, judged and viewed as idiots. So if we really look at all of this stuff, I mean, not all of mental illness, because I don't think, for example, schizophrenia has an adaptive mechanism. But in your case, you know, you have all this stuff which people can, like, say is, like, you know, patterns of mind. And it's like, actually, like, that's how you function. Because you can work 110 hours a week and then have a breakdown. reset and then it's back back to working 110. Now, I think I think what we've got to figure out is like, do you want to continue this?

Are you happy with where you are or do you want to change? I want to. Well, I mean, it goes, it goes back to what I said. Well, okay, I guess I don't know how you're asking the question. Do you want to continue doing what I'm doing? Yeah. Like what am I my work and stuff? Do you want something to change about your life?

Are you happy with things continuing at their current track? Oh, Jesus. No. Yeah, obviously, like, obviously in private, I always look for ways that I think, I think I mentioned this in the first time that we spoke, look for ways to fix or change something. however difficult it is, so that this cycle stops. Breaking the cycle is like...

What do you want to change? I want the cycle to stop. What is the cycle? The cycle is somehow convincing myself to go beyond the breaking point, you know, constantly working through, whatever. Right now, I am in the best... I'm financially and just work-wise. and everything, I'm in the best place I've ever been.

Like, I'm at a peak right now. Maybe it's going to even keep going up, et cetera. And yet, I have, like, a feeling that the only way that I can describe it is homelessness. And it is a very, it is a very dark feeling, obviously. It's very devoid of anything. And it feels so empty and scary, right? And it's like, sometimes I'll have. a conversation with someone and they'll just remind me of so many things and then it sort of

helps alleviate the feeling and stuff. Obviously, I want that feeling to go away because I think that that feeling helps reinforce the cycle and it helps reinforce. So I need to figure out a way to get my brain to accept and be content with everything as it is right now without feeling over-panicked anxious about everything and feeling like I'm in a constant fear of missing out, if that makes sense. Yeah. While simultaneously feeling empty. So you said the feeling is homelessness?

It feels like homelessness. Okay. I think that's a great way to put it. Yeah. So Ellis, I think at some point, okay, now we get to the, you know, psychoanalytic kind of stuff. So thank you so much for saying that. I don't know what, you know, I don't know what the perception of people who are watching. is I feel like we've

talked about a lot of stuff, kind of tied stuff together, but I think we're like at a really good spot now. At least, I mean, I am in terms of, I think there's, yeah, you need to take a minute. I have had anxiety. No, no, no, I've had anxiety all week. This is, like, in an unhealthy kind of way,

this is the best I've been breathing in like a week. So I actually thought it was asthma. So like just before we started this call, actually, I took my albuterol and my ad ver. And just so that there wouldn't be any breathing difficulties, whatever. But now I'm realizing that it's not asthma and that there's just a shitload of fucking anxiety going on because I can breathe really well right now. So odd. And it feels like, you know, the person's sitting on me just sort of gut up. So the conversation's been helpful in that regard.

But it fucking sucks, man. Holy shit. I can breathe right now. It's been a while, you know? It's coming back though. But coming back, you mean the elephant is starting to have fat guys sitting on your chest again? The whale is going to come back. That whale who plays lull and does it agree with the idea of freezing?

He says you just need vision. It's just one. It's all one guy. This is the thing, L.S. It's all one guy. It's like, seriously, when you tilt on them, it's like, So this is the thing. The body and mind are linked, right?

So when you say, oh, I didn't, I realize it's not asthma. I actually disagree. So now we come to psychosomatic, right? You're thinking that this is making me have asthma? The two are linked. It's like your body and mind are linked. So anxiety makes asthma worse. So like, so the conditions that are autoimmune are significantly altered by your mental state.

So rheumatoid arthritis, things like chronic line. disease, asthma, IBS, all autoimmune conditions are heavily influenced by the mind. And what's happening is when that, when your trash can is overflowing, you feel it in terms of emotions, but it's also going to manifest as asthma. Okay. So this is important. I don't want you to think, because a lot of people think that psychosomatic means all in your head.

I don't think the asthma is all in your head. I think the only way that your body knows how to process. the stress, it's like your body is starting to give out, right? Like, you've got five lanes in league, and if you're under pressure, sometimes one of your champions is going to give out. So asthma is one way of you giving out. The breakdown is another way of you giving out. You know, yelling at nobs is a third way for you to break.

Like, those are all signs of, like, fracturing. Right? That's the trash can overflowing. And so the cool thing is that when you talk like this and you start to get some sense and like, why do you think you feel better now? Like, what have we done? I don't know I think

just having a conversation with someone helps a lot because I don't actually get to I don't get to talk about because usually some people that I'll talk to about these very things they'll just it's not really a conversation

it's like I don't know how to describe it it's sort of like a I don't know how to describe it Beasaggaragwa? Oh, actually, no. I'll tell you the way that I describe it to some of my roommates. I am a dog that everyone wants to be around until I start barking. And then when I start barking, they want to lock me in a room until the barking stops.

They don't want to treat the barking or why is the dog barking. So that's the conversation with your teacher? That's a similar conversation. That's how I feel. Yeah, I feel like a barking dog. and no one actually cares what, yeah. Absolutely, right? So that sounds way closer to me to this thing with your teacher when she was like,

why is this kid having behavioral problems? And this is the problem, L.S., is that like deep down, I think your sense of identity, I'm going to stop. Okay, let's go back to this. This is actually, that while I'm enamored with my ability to formulate and understand people, I don't know how helpful that's going to be. Okay. So let's go back to why.

does this help? Like, how does this work? We're just talking. There's something humane about it. Okay. Whereas most times I think when I talk to people, I am the idea or the personification of my character within the sports community. Sure.

And that I'm not me. And that my problems are only a detriment to whoever I'm talking to. And it would be better. if I go back to just being LS who they need me to be. Yeah. Right. So I was saying deep down your identity dot, dot, dot. So we'll come back to that.

So good. You went there, so I didn't need to go there. But so I want to understand from a mechanistic. So let's think about mechanism. Okay. So let's pretend we're playing an RTS. And the RTS is talking to LS on stream with Dr. K. And we noticed something, which is that like,

L.S.'s breathing is improved. He feels better. what did we if we go back and we watch the replay like what's the mechanism tell me like how is this happening using any of the language or any of the imagery that we've talked about today like how is this helping you like what's happening um i think a lot of it is it's helping me feel or i don't know if the if the phrase is less crazy um but it feels um it's sort of like when no one wants to listen to or believe or talk about any of the things that you're saying, but then you have a conversation with someone that's just willing to listen.

It's sort of like a fucking... It's sort of like when someone says... I don't even know. Again, I'm just seeing images. I don't... Can you describe the images to me? Yeah, one of the images is a girl breaking down in like a diner. She's in a booth and she's just talking to a waitress and she just starts crying and says,

finally. I know that sounds really weird I think in a lot of I don't know how to describe it I just see lots of images and I try to put them into words I think that was very illustrative thank you

so it just it it feels like holy shit you know like everyone just doesn't care or want to listen to her and then finally the waitress or something is just willing to talk and it's just so overwhelming that it's like a fucking floodgate

you know someone's you know yeah Yeah, pretty much that. That's the image that I think is the strongest. That's a beautiful image. Thanks. I don't know what it comes from. Yeah. It's raining in the image. There you go. We got that going.

Absolutely. I think it's, I could have, you know, yeah, I think raining makes sense to me. Yeah. It's, um, I think it's a really good description of, of your life in a lot of ways. So I think, I think Twitch hat has figured it out. So Twitch chat knows what we're doing. So Twitch chat, do you guys know how this is helping? So I've seen it pop up a couple of times. Like, what are we doing with him? Yeah, see, look at that.

They say, are you on my streaming? Okay, can I tell you something? Yeah. There's a couple of people in chat right now, and I don't know. This tilts me. Tilts me out of my mind. What is pathetic fallacy mean? Do you know what they might be saying?

I don't know what that means. I don't know either, but I don't know. need to know. Focus. Okay. Good. So we'll get to that. We'll get to that.

Okay. I'm so tilted. Yeah. All right. Go ahead. Okay. So what did? So aside from the few people who said pathetic fallacy, because I don't even know what

it's called. I don't know what that means. What are the other people in your chat saying? Uh, let me ask you. Because my chat has it figured out. So I don't know if it's just because by the way. Oh, I'm not streaming. Oh, you're not streaming.

Oh, you're not streaming. Okay. No, no, no, no. I don't stream when I do these. Okay. I would rather direct traffic So I'm really impressed with like Because Twitch hat dude like these guys learn

And girls and other other things You know So I think their overwhelming sense is that you're taking out the trash Okay Oh when we're having Yeah yeah yeah yeah that makes sense Right And so that's how this works right

So it's not when you kind of think about Like what's the effect of this conversation This is going to help you in the next week because you've managed and emptied out some of that trash. So as you build up that stress and that trash, you've got to manage it by talking about it. So seeing a therapist, I don't know exactly what, you know, what therapy is like in South Korea, but, you know, talking to someone can certainly help. I think the other thing that's happening is that we're helping you be. And so this is the advantage of therapy, by the way, right?

So like we all have emotions and stuff. like our trash can fills up throughout the day. And I'll teach you a meditation technique that's kind of about unwinding at the end of today. So remind me to teach you that. The other thing, so we kind of build up emotions and like negative experiences, feelings and stuff like that. And then we need some place to take out the trash. So if you take out the trash, the cool thing, L.S. is that I think all of this stuff will get better.

So I think your asthma will get better. Your insomnia will get better. Your anxiety will get better. it's not going to happen overnight and needs to happen on a regular basis because you have a lot of trash filled up. Like what you've been doing is instead of a trash can, you actually have a basement where you throw all your trash. And so for years and years and years, you have a basement that's just filled up. The other thing, Ellis, that I think you kind of really struggle with, and maybe we can talk about this next time, is I think your sense of identity is like all warped.

So I think part of this whole glass house thing, you try to be like super trillions. transparent, but I think deep down there's sense of emptiness. I don't know if you really know who you are. I think that you're not confident, you don't, you're not confident in yourself. So I think a lot of your uncertainty has to do with, you know, you don't know that you're going to land on your feet. And knowing that you're going to land on your feet tends to come from like a good sense of confidence in who you are as a person, like being secure within you.

yourself. And I think we see other signs of sort of like a kind of a shaky identity, which is that, you know, the opinions of others start to influence you way more. Like, so if I have a clear sense of who I am and like the world calls me an idiot, like if I know who I am, I'm going to be able to protect myself from that because I know it's kind of like, you know, the whole Pasagadapagad Pagva thing. Like, if I know that other people are idiots and that my strategy is a good one, like I don't have to try to convince them of anything. Like if they're too dumb to realize it like, fine, I'm just going to own them harder and harder and harder. And the people who understand it will, like, improve and the people who don't want to accept

me, like, they're just going to suck. They're going to keep on losing MMR or rank or whatever. But in your case, I think there's something about needing to prove yourself to other people. And imposter syndrome, streaming, all this stuff gets exacerbated because you become this persona. But essentially, like, the person who needs to prove themselves is the person who, like, is it confident in themselves. And so I think we've got to go back to like, you know, when you, like, like, who are you

really? Like, who is L.S and what is L.S capable of? Like, who are you? The actual question or what? Yeah. I'm curious what you're going to say. I don't know. Yeah.

I don't know, actually. Yeah. This goes back to what I said in the first conversation. I don't really have a purpose, but because this is all that I've done, I feel like my only purpose is helping others it sounds so

it sounds so stupid to say like appreciate strategy more inside of video games but I think that strategy in itself is art and I think that there is a lot of correlations or things that can show themselves in other areas

of life that you can derive from strategy games no no see that's beautiful that is your purpose I think so but this is the crazy thing right like so despite having such a pure purpose

that no one like people don't say that kind of thing man so like that is a sign of like that's actually true purpose like you love strategy games you love learning strategy you love applying the strategy to like other parts of your life

you love talking about strategy games that's what you're on this earth to do my friend the question is why is it that you can't just accept that, right? So there's something within you that like, like, I think you've actually got your purpose figured out. I think your problem is like you don't know who you are. So when you say like my purpose is to explore strategy to its fullest extent because I think it's amazing, the second half of that sentence is fine. I think my, I think where you fall short is with the first word, which is my and you don't know who you are. But I think what you're doing is awesome.

I think like you love strategy, you love e-sports, you love gaming. And if that's what you want to spend your life doing, then I say, go for it, man. And see what happens. Yeah. There's more stuff I want to do down the line that I need to grow bigger in order to do. Like in terms of like setting up networks and other stuff. Good. Like academies or whatever.

Yeah, I find a lot of probably very very. odd off things pretty or beautiful or exciting like art and stuff I'm sorry you said odd off yeah like odd like things that maybe most people wouldn't uh I don't know I guess that that's just my my opinion yeah so so I think going forward we've got to do some you know work on like who you are but I think a couple of concrete things do you have any questions by the way so I was I'm going to kind of try to summarize because we've been at this for a little while now. Okay. Does this feel like a good stopping point to you?

Yeah, sure. I mean, I don't really do anything, so. It's whatever you. I don't, like, I don't, I think after whenever I was going to be done talking with you, I was going to watch the new Walking Dead episode and then probably sleep. Okay. So I don't, I don't really have a schedule right now. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So let me try to just summarize a couple of things. Okay. So first of all, I'm glad you came on again. And I've thoroughly enjoyed talking to you. I think LS, you are just a really awesome dude. And I think that underneath all the anxiety and insomnia and all that other kind of crap, like I love to hear that you are an artist when it comes to strategy. And like you love and appreciate strategy like art because I think that's, we need. people like you, man. Because the problem is that like the rest of the world doesn't take the gaming community seriously. They don't, they don't understand that you can have a beautiful work of art that is like, like, you know, a book. You can have a beautiful work of art that is a movie and you can have a

beautiful work of art that is a video game. Like for many, many years, when people ask me what kind of music I like, I would say instrumental music. But what I really meant is in my free time, I listen to like soundtracks from video games. That's what I listen to. That's what I listen to. I listen to. I listen to Chrono Trigger, Divinity Original Sin, usually single player RPGs. You know, like, that's what I listen to. Like, sometimes some O.C. remix from Street Fighter 2 and some old school stuff. When my two-year-old, like, when she was young, I used to sing her the Terran theme from StarCraft 1 to put her to sleep.

Oh, man. It's just nuts. But, like, that's what, she loves the Terran theme, StarCraft 1. And, and, like, that's how, like, that's her lullaby. Like, you know, because. It's like two in the morning. She's not falling asleep. I've sung everything that I know how to sing.

And I just try to think about, okay, what can I sing for 30 minutes without getting bored of it? The Taryn theme from StarCraft One. Best baby lullaby ever. Right? Nice. Taryn's a good theme. It's a great thing. Yeah.

Yeah. It's really the only one you can kind of like sing to a kid, you know? Like you can't really do that with the Zerg music. No. Anyway. So I think it's awesome. that like you really are devoted to strategy. I think you know what your purpose is.

I think the problem is that you've developed some strategies to help you succeed in your goals, but that those strategies are actually maladaptive. They work, but they're not ideal. And the basic gist of it is that like, you know, whether we talk about asthma or stress or insomnia or anxiety, falling apart, breaking apart, all that stuff is the same. I mean, it's not the same.

There's, you know, it's complicated. and there are all kinds of stuff going on. But I think basically, like, your problem is that you're not emptying the trash. And it doesn't take a whole lot. So I don't think, like, you need a spa day once a week. I think you need to, you know, it sounds like you're eating well, you hydrate really well. That's really great. It sounds like you need some kind of emotional support.

So I don't know what that looks like. If you have, you know, therapists or something like that, I don't know. I'm going to have to think about that. But I think on some level, it doesn't you have to be necessarily talking to someone, but like processing your emotion. So now I'd like to teach you a meditation technique around that. so we'll stop after the meditation technique but a couple of other things so going forward i think the big issue here is that somewhere along the way you aren't even though you know what you like

and you know what it is due to fear of judgment or something like that like there's fear of judgment there's not being taken seriously for whatever reason you cannot be confident in the person that you are you can't be comfortable in the person that you are even though you know you want to do a lot of stuff and you want to expand your network, you're afraid about your future. Whereas like when you say things like this, it actually makes me think your future is going to be fine, man. Because a lot of people, like transitioning out of e-sports into other stuff is something that people are getting better and better at.

It's becoming more of an industry. And you're actually thinking about it. Like, I'm confident that you're going to do well, actually. But for whatever reason, your sense of identity hasn't formed well. So I think that's something overall, like I think we, so I'm happy to do this with you. but what you really need to do is try to figure out, like, when did you go off track? Like, when did you lose confidence in the person that you are? When did you fundamentally, like, when did the default become failure instead of success?

Because I think once I started being more aware of my age. Okay. So that is a trash can that needs to be emptied. The last thing that I'll kind of share with you before meditation is that I want you to understand that, like, when you get till or involved with, like, that each individual interaction, and this is for people at home too, like, you're not just dealing with that interaction. Your history and the emotional weight from the past actually, like, plays into that interaction. So if you feel, like, uncomfortable about your appearance or you're afraid about dating or something

like that, like, all of those anxieties from the past and, like, that, like, lack of confidence and, like, fear that you're going to be rejected or unlovable, like, all that crap. enters your mind and actually like affects you when you ask someone that you're attracted to out. And so you got to deal with all that crap from the past. And then you'll be free from it and your life is going to feel way easier. My goal for you, LS is to feel like get that, that elephant man off your chest. Like that's what we should do. Right.

And then if you live life, I think you're going to be, you're going to be good. Okay. Thoughts, questions? Ready for meditation? Yeah, sure. Okay, so sit up straight. I don't know if my chair. Hold on. Okay.

Like, fully straight? What? Yeah, totally straight. Back straight. Okay. Okay. Let your shoulders relax a little bit. So spine is different from shoulders. No, I know. Yeah. Try to bring your elbows. Weird.

No, no, no. They just don't want to relax. It's really weird. Um, so they're just tense. It's, I actually, I think this is, uh, this is just, um, uh, I don't know how to describe this. Like my, my legs are tapping right now. Um, yeah. Like, I think this is just, my body is just very tense right now. Yeah, okay. So if you can't. Yeah. So, so what, what I want you to try to do is let your arms hang. Let, let, let gravity pull your arms down as low as they'll go. Uh, I have arm wrists.

Okay. So scoot, scoot forward. Scoot forward to the hedge of your chair. Yeah, yeah. Okay, sure. Right? Yeah, okay. Okay. And then now, now let your shoulders hang. Good. Better. So I want you to do this. Literally that. Yep. And now put your palms in front of you. Like, let them rest in your lap. Yeah. Okay. Let your shoulders relax. Good. Trying. Yeah, just let them fall to the ground, right? So this is, this is tense. This is like straight, and then just let them down.

Push them down. Yeah, good. Now, close your eyes. And now I'm going to walk you through a particular set. I'm going to give you some instructions. Oh, God. It's that, yeah. What? Sorry.

I don't like closing my, yeah, sorry. You don't like closing your eyes? Yeah. What don't you like about closing your eyes? Um, feel vulnerable? I don't know. I don't know. You feel unsafe?

There's something, uh, not unsafe. Um, there's something unsettling about it not being pure black. Like I have, uh, you know, the things that go over to sleep? Yeah, I have to use those. Okay. Yeah, I have to use those. And whenever I try to de-stress, like on my own, I have to use that. I can't just close my eyes.

Okay. But, yeah. I don't know why. Okay, so try closing your eyes. Okay, so I feel like the technique for you today is actually not a technique. It's just relax your shoulders and close your eyes. That's where you should start. But let's try to give something for people at home.

So this is what I want you to do. I'm going to teach you kind of an unwind. By the way, do you feel good in the morning? Depends what's the first thing I see on my phone. If I see that there's a new Reddit thread or if I see there's tweets that make me want to jump off my balcony then, you know, I mean... It affects how the morning we'll go.

Okay, okay. So, it sounds like, but in the morning before, how often do you check your... How quickly do you check your phone after you wake up? Instantly. So that needs to stop. It's literally under my pillow. That needs to stop, Ellis. How do we get that? Okay, so open your eyes

for a second. So I know I'm supposed to teach meditation right now and I've got to go on like 15 minutes. But this, this, okay, so this needs to stop. Okay, so when it comes, to emptying out your trash can. So talking with other people meditating, you got to put your phone somewhere else. And you got to give yourself like half an hour or 45 minutes

before you check your phone or before you check Reddit. How do we make that happen? I feel like suffocating if I don't know what's going on as soon as I wake up. I always feels like, okay, so there's a lot of people that will message me, like within the scene, whether it be players that'll message me on Discord or they'll DM me or other people, I feel like because I'm operating on different time zones, that I need to try to reply as soon as I can. And so, like, I know that if I wake up at 9 a.m.

How often do you, how often do you shower? Every 36 hours, usually. Okay. So when you, well, depending on casts. If I'm casting, I shower every single day because they use hairspray and, other stuff and I get tilted, but yeah. Okay. So, so, like, I would say, like, when you wake up, do you shower at usually at night or in the morning? Depends what I'm doing the next day.

Okay. So you got to figure something out to avoid your phone for 30 minutes. Okay. When you wake up. Like, I was going to say an hour, but, like, you got to, like, eat or, or, you know, do something. Like, go outside, go for a walk, like, do whatever you want to. Just no phone. for 30 minutes. You got to make that. We can't even go out though. Corona thing. Oh, okay. We're supposed to like avoid public place. Yeah, I don't know. A lot of places around me are closed. It sucks, yeah. So, so practically though, I want you to think about it this way, LS. The more time that your mind spends in that space of stress, the more stress you're going to feel.

So you need to give your mind, you need to learn how to break away from that space for just a little while. And no wonder you have no idea who you are. Because like you're never alone. What if I watch Netflix? Huh? What if I watch Netflix? Netflix is fine, just not on your phone. Okay.

Okay, so you can watch on your computer, but like no checking, no social media for 30 minutes after you wake up. You can watch Netflix, you can lay in bed, you can meditate, you can, you can do whatever you want to. but just no social media for 30 minutes. Eat something. Take it dumb. To be honest, I think usually things wake me up, like Discord calls or phone call or alarm. Okay, so fine to alarm,

but like mute your Discord when you go to sleep. Okay. Let's just talk about like here I am trying to come up with all these complicated like psychoanalytic formulations for you. And it's just like, yeah, just stay away from your phone for like half an hour. Just see what it does to your mindset. Okay.

Because you're starting the day off, Like, what you're doing is you're giving your adrenaline system a big kick as soon as you wake up. Like, you don't need coffee. It's like, oh, shit. Like, that's like, you wake up, you check your phone. You're like, oh, shit. That's not, you get coffee. That's the first thing I do.

Okay, fine. So have coffee and enjoy it. And just don't look at your phone. There are these things that's kind of weird. Like, before, you know, gaming and computers, they used to, like, instead of Reddit, they would, like, take, like, a bunch of Reddit pages and they would, like, put them together on paper. And they would, like, bind them together. Huh?

newspaper or what a book no like yeah yeah it's a book a book you've read so so you know sometimes it's kind of like it's like reddit threads that are all like linked to each other it's actually really cool and it's like they're all like linked together so it's kind of like if you were to like read like you know it's kind of like a vlog like all of them are related but it's like it's like one story so check one of those out you know anyway um so enough of me being that seriously spend a half an hour in the morning away from your phone okay so now i'm going to teach you guys the technique okay so close your eyes and what i want you to do so you you're in the hand position yeah yeah okay so what i want you to do is i want you to think about the kind of like

the last thing that happened before we started talking and i want you to think about any emotions that you felt with that event. Okay. And then I want you to go to the thing before. So I'll, so basically what you want to do before you go to bed at night is you can do this technique. And throughout the day,

what's so funny? No, the dark humor in me, the thing I did before this, right, was there was a Fiora and she's a dirty inter. Do you ever get someone that runs it down in your game in Dota? Huh? They just intentionally, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They make it so you can't play. Oh, well. That was the thing before this that actually, it made me end my stream. And the thing before her was a different dirty enter. Okay. Okay, good. So now we're getting somewhere. Okay, good, L.S.

Okay, so good. So, so close your eyes. I don't know if I want to go back to those. No, exactly you want to go to those. So what I want you to do is acknowledge the emotions that you felt without getting into it. Okay. You can laugh. It's okay.

So like, so you said, like, I had a dirty Fiora or whatever, and she fed. And then, like, I was super pissed off and tilted, and I decided to quit my stream. And now go to the game before. And so what was the situation there? Like, acknowledged the situation. I felt super tilted. Yeah. Right?

And then what happened before that? Yeah, that was very tilted. Um, I think we opened in eight minutes or like 10 minutes. Yeah. What does that mean? You know, opening is everyone just lets the enemy push. Okay. So I want you to continue going backwards in time and try to get like to a pretty small resolution.

So I'll give you an example of my routine. Like before, you know, like like when I do this meditation before bed, so I usually do it before bed. So like before I got into bed, I changed my clothes. Before I changed my clothes, I brushed my teeth. Before I brushed my teeth, I brushed my kids' teeth. Before I brushed their teeth, my little kid had taken the cap off of the toothpaste and was eating toothpaste again. And I got pissed off at her because she really needs to stop eating toothpaste. And then I had to fight with her about, you know, she wanted to open the toothpaste and she wanted to do it herself.

And I got kind of frustrated with that. And before that, I changed them into pajamas. And before I changed them into pajamas, we were like doing like a pillow fight dance party kind of thing. and then that was a lot of fun. And then before that, I ate dinner at 10 o'clock at night because I didn't get a chance to eat until then. And then before that, I did this, and then I did this, and this is how I felt then.

And with dinner, like, I really enjoyed the food because it was healthy, but I really wanted, like, a slice of pepperoni pizza because that's just, like, fatty and delicious. And before that, I did this, and I felt like this. So you just kind of track back. So a couple of important things to remember. One is that you don't want to dive into anything. Okay. So I noticed that when you started recalling the game, like you became pretty attached to the game and you dived into those feelings pretty quickly.

So you want to acknowledge them and then move back. Acknowledge, move back. Acknowledge, move back. And try to go all the way back to when you started your day and how you felt the moment you woke up. I was tilted. First thing in the morning? Yeah. Okay.

I remember I, yeah. So try to catch every major event of your day. an even small event. So like generally speaking, this meditation takes about five to ten minutes. Okay. So, but I think you've got a handle on it.

And then, and so hopefully what this will do is like empty out your trash a little bit. Okay? Because you're trying to unwind. As you go through the day, you wind up emotions. You have all this stuff that kind of builds up. And our goal is to help you like kind of unwind and start the day off peaceful.

But apparently you start the day off tilt. Like you woke up and you were tilted. Yeah. Like you opened your eyes and like you were tilted about what? I ran over to the door to see if Max was awake and I walked out and I said so I think I just said to him so what the fuck are we going to do? And I was tilted about an argument that I had yesterday. Exactly. Not with him with someone else.

So you need to process that from the day before using a technique like this so that you don't wake up in the morning tilted. You see how like it's all like like it's just a cycle. Like it's a it's a ball that's rolling downhill. It's like a little snow. It's a snowflake that's becoming a snowball, which is becoming an avalanche. And so you've got to deal with your emotions from the day before so that you start the day off like you're already encumber. Yeah, I'm pretty often starting the day off. I usually wake up tilting.

Okay. Yeah. So then you got to get. So process that stuff the day before as best as you can using this. technique. Okay. Okay. Dots or questions before we wrap up for the day? No.

Okay. Strong work, man. All right. A pleasure as always. Thanks so much again. Yeah, of course, fan. Get some sleep. Just go to sleep, man. No, I gotta watch the new Walking Dead. I only watch it for Jeffrey Dean Morgan.

Okay. I don't know who that is. What? Who's it? I think he's a pretty famous actor. Look, man. Do you ever watch The Walking Dead? Yeah, I've seen like the first three seasons, four seasons.

Oh, okay. He's Negan. If you know who that... Let me... No. Don't leave me. One second. Jeffrey Dean Morgan.

What famous movies is he in? Uh, he's in Supernatural. He's in Grey's Anatomy. He's in P.S. I love you. Oh, I know this guy. You know him? He's an... I mean, not personally.

He is just solo cat. marrying the show at this point. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So he's the only reason I still watch. Okay, cool. Well, he's a villain termed, well, I don't want to spoiler.

No spoilers. Jesus. Alas, you're killing me, man. Now you're going to tilt me. I'll let you go. Fuck, man. Okay. All right.

Take care, man. Good luck. All right. All right. Bye. Okay. Thanks so much. Bye.

All right, chat. See now, see, now you, now I've made a big, big mistake. Because now what I've done is tell chat that I don't like spoilers. And now chat knows my, my soft, soft underbelly. And they're going to spoil everything on the universe. So I can't read chat anymore. Okay. So I'm curious, how applicable was what we were talking about?

Like, did you guys like, did you all resonate with anything that we were talking about with LS? Okay. I wasn't sure because he had so many things going on. I wasn't quite sure like who to like yeah and yeah man sometimes I try to make things

a little bit more applicable but in LS's case there's just a lot yeah the trash can part so that's applicable to everyone right so I think I want you guys to like really think about this for a second you know if you have a bad day

if you guys watched Crucifestrime that's a good example of this where he's a guy who would like get a job and then after one week, he would get frustrated and walk out. The thing about, like, the issue is usually not the terminal cause. So if we think about, like in medicine, if we think about cancer, right? Cancer doesn't start with, like, when you notice, like, a lump. Like, cancer starts with risk factors.

So if you, you know, lung cancer, like, if someone has lung cancer, like, that starts with, with smoking, usually. or if someone has colon cancer, that can start with diet or low fiber, things like that. So you guys really have to think about the risk factors that lead up to how you're managing things before you actually see what the problem is. If you feel horrible every time you wake up, then you should start by doing this technique the night before.