HealthyGamerGG - Meaning & Happiness ft. Mitch Jones

Episode Date: July 23, 2021

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Yo Mitch. Hello, how are you? Good, man. One second. There we go. So, can hear me? You can hear me, right? Yeah, yeah.

All right, cool. What kind of got a weird setup going on here? Weird meaning... I'm just holding my mic up with a glass cup here. I don't know. Interesting. Yeah. Do what works, right, my friend?

Yeah, yep, yep. So how you been, man? I've been all right how have you been busy yeah same very busy not really used to being so busy for sure yeah and so tell me what have you been kind of up to it's been a while since we talked uh I've been up to just I've

I stopped streaming like five months ago or so and I've just been like on a different journey completely that's kind of what I've been up to yeah I saw you were streaming a lot of wow and it seemed like it was really going well yeah no i i kind of with like shadow lens came out and my stream was actually had peaked at like the highest heights i'd ever hit but i was still just like super unhappy you know so i kind of just was like why am i continuing to do this it's like yeah i'm successful and like i have like on the outside it all looks good right but on the inside i was i was not good so i just decided to try something else wow that seems hard to do

I mean, it was actually not that hard. I kind of just was like my heart just like knew it had to be done, you know? Like I just, I just, something inside of me just told me like, there's got to be more to this life or something, you know? Like, because I mean, I'm streaming a long time and I feel like I've been in the environment of just gaming and playing games for, you know, 10 years or so. So I just wanted to like throw myself full-fledged into something else and see what happens. Can you help me understand? And you said that there were, like, things were going really well, but, like, you just knew on the inside that it was not right. Can you know how much in that?

Like, career-wise, everything was going well, right? Like, from the outside, like, from perspective, but my internal happiness and whatever is, like, guiding me, I don't know, like, my spirit, whatever you want to call it, like, just, I just felt deeply sad inside. Like, after most of my streams, I would just, like, kind of, I would, like, take these long showers where I would just let the wall. just slap me, just lay there and slat me, and I would just cry for hours. Like, this was, like, a ritual of mine while I was, like, streaming Shadowlands. So it's like, I would go live and I'm, like, all good when I'm live, but then it's when I turn off the camera and it's just me alone, I'm not okay, you know? So I just realized, like, why am I lying to myself, you know?

Like, no amount of money or success from Twitch or any of that egotistical stuff that I was chasing years ago is going to make me happy. And Shadowlands was, like, a realization for me to really figure that out. It was like, oh, this doesn't make me happy. You know, I thought if I had all the viewers and subs and all that, I would be good, but I was worse than when I wasn't, you know? So it's like, yeah, that's how I knew I just, I needed to try something different. It was like, it was time for me to try something different.

And, wow, man, that's big, bro. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely been a journey for sure. Sure, but I've been on a spiritual kind of like growth path for a couple of years now. I never really shared this with Twitch chat because I didn't think there was much relatability there. I thought it was, you know, more so I just come on, play my game, get rank one. You know, everyone's like, you know, thinks I'm a good mage and it's all good. You know what I mean?

But yeah, I've been on like a spiritual path for a while now and it's just kind of all hit me at once where I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I just need to like follow my heart or something like that. I don't know if it sounds cliche, but I don't know. Yeah, you know, there's a reason that cliches are cliches. That's true, yeah, that is true. Right. And it's, I, when I hear something like follow your heart, it's the kind of thing that, like, a lot of people say, but I think very few people truly understand.

And like when you understand it, it feels like it makes so much sense. Yeah, for sure. It does make so much sense. I mean, just, you know, just six months ago, I don't know. It's like everyone thought I was happy, you know. Like literally, my friends, they were all like, everyone thought I was happy. I was, I had like, I don't know, like a lot of viewers playing Wow Shadowlands and I don't know. From the outside, I guess people just think that's happiness, right?

Like, just like, like financial or like career success is like, sure. It's just like, I don't know. I just, I really am struggling in this world to find deeper meaning than that, you know? Because like, yeah, I'm just, I really do want to find something deeper and like a way to express my, like the real parts of me that I haven't been able to. expressed through streaming just because I feel like with streaming it's it's not as like as as an emotional of a connection with the viewer that I would like I guess so that makes sense yeah like go ahead sorry no no keep going man no I was just saying it's hard for me to relate to like to the viewers that I had like playing wow and all that it just didn't feel like I was making that like real

emotional connection and whenever I would try and like open myself up it's like people didn't seem to really care it was just push back like you know like dude shut up just play wow whatever, you know. So it's like, I don't know. I just want people to like to, that's why I started music because like it was just me alone with like a microphone and I could just like express my soul in a way. And like I just want people to be able to listen to that, that version of me rather than like the version of me that just had to, you know, be this like sort of character to on stream. I don't know. Yeah. So I'm hearing that you were sort of living a fake life on screen. Yeah, well, I was just trying to.

portray a happy version of myself when I wasn't actually happy. So if that's fake, then I guess, yeah. But I was trying to portray a put-together, happy, normal functioning human when that was far from the reality that I was actually living. What was the reality you were living? Honestly, just hell. I really feel like streaming has done a number on my mental health over the years. And I don't say that with like, obviously streaming has done a lot of good things for me, you know? So it's not like it's all bad. I'm just saying there's a lot of, of things with it that sort of did a number on me

over the years. And I wish I had like sort of taken this leap of faith sooner in my life to be honest with you because I've been very much so a lot more myself and able to express myself and just be happier in general since I stopped

streaming. But a lot of the reason that I kind of was took this leap of faith was just like obviously you know the Wreckful passed away and that was a like giant moment for me to be like wow like this shit is never the same for me again like for real that was like a moment where I realized it would never be the same again and uh I don't know I think a lot of other broadcasters talked about how wreckful touch them or whatever but like I just I had like a super

deep friendship with Byron for many years like we go back to like 2012 playing you know cataclysm wow together before Twitch was even really a thing and before anyone made like any money doing it so it was like to me that event just like hit me like a brick and it still does and I sound like yeah it's like I don't know it still really haunts me though that he's gone can you help me understand what changed for you when Byron passed away I just realized that I don't have as much time as I thought you know I really realized that it's not like like I was always living in the past hoping that the past would happen again and then once he

passed away I realized the past will never happen again and I need to stop chasing on to something that doesn't exist anymore damn dude that's deep yeah that's that's kind of how I feel about it so yeah I'm very thankful though for all the Twitch stuff you know what I mean like I had a great career

it was dope and I'm hoping that I'm really hoping that I can express myself in a different manner and people will be okay with the deeper parts of me, you know? Not like the shallow fart jokes on Twitch, but like the deeper parts of me, I hope people would like want to see what's up with that too. Yeah, man.

So help me understand a little bit. What is it, what is it that makes you, how can I say this? So it seems like some people are really happy with a slice of Mitch, right? not the whole pie that are good with the slice. Yeah, not for sure. Go ahead.

Sorry. And so I'm just kind of wondering a little bit about like, you know, why does everyone, or not, maybe not everyone, but, but, you know, what are you, like, would it be okay if people weren't happy with the rest of the pie? You know, what, what, yeah, for sure. Because I'm getting, I, go ahead, sorry. I was just like, I'm getting a sense that you want to share. more and you want to connect more.

And I'm a little bit confused because it seems to me like something about our language is kind of falling apart where I'm getting a sense of words that sound like you're looking for approval. But the feeling that I'm getting from you is not really about approval at all. And I just want to try to understand that, you know, that boundary between like giving people what they want and wanting them to give them more. and like wanting to give them something authentic and wanting them to accept it. Yeah, that's kind of the way. Yeah, that's probably how I would say is like I just want to be my authentic self and make art rather than just like, you know, I do something deeply meaningful for like me, I guess, you know? Like I want to do something deeply meaningful for me. And I have like a weird story.

I mean, and I feel like a lot of people might be able to relate to that weird story. I love to hear it. Yeah, for sure. I have a crazy story. With all of it, I mean, we don't probably have enough time to go into everything. But yeah, I have a really, really uniquely odd story. And, you know, I might just be some dumb kid from Baltimore or whatever. Like, I've never really struggled financially because I've had, like, you know, the Twitch success from an early age and stuff. But I think that actually may be a part of why I fundamentally have grown up awkwardly, if that makes sense. Like, I think, um, I didn't really understand at like a young age. what I really had and it's like it just sort of took control what is what did you have at a young age I was just fortunate enough to not grow up financially struggling like I grew up you know

going to private school all of that and then I got big and started making money on Twitch when I was like 20, 21 you know so it's like I didn't really have the traditional like grow up and it's like I feel like as I got more successful I became more lonely um it's like a weird like double-edged sword type thing. Yeah, so I've had like the material things that humans

like search after, right? But I never really had like deep love or anything that I really felt like I could connect to on that level. And truthfully, like, I'm a very emotional, spiritual, like, person. And I've never really shared that. I always kind of dumb myself down and made myself out to be this just like clownster

wow player, right? And for me, I feel like that was I did myself a huge disjustice, and just disjustice in that way. I regret doing that a bit, but it's like at the same time, that's what made me successful. So it's like, it's just, you know, fighting the double-edged sword that is, I'm sure there's a lot of parallels like this with any career path, right? So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting. I find that the double-edged sword isn't so much with the career path, but is more without.

Because I know and but at the same time, I'm I kind of hear you loud and clear because I think that it's it's you know, you can easily make an argument that there's a cost to being a successful personality on the internet. Yeah. And there's like I just wish I had guidance in any way. Like I didn't really have much family guidance going into this. Like my father was always pretty much like a just obsessed with his work and his business and all that. And like he. And I told you, you know, about the situation about my mother, she's, you know, she's not really able to be there for me because she's extremely ill. And then I have a brother with autism who's currently in some mental hospital, probably like,

I don't know. Like, the last time I spoke to him was like a year or two ago. And I don't know, there's just a lot of things that weigh heavy on my conscious. And, um, yeah, so like from the outside, I had all this fucking success and all this shit. But it's like it, I just, it didn't do anything for the pain inside, man. Like,

I really feel like I had, I had a really good thing with like a couple friends I met, like Reckville being one of them. And it's like, I don't know. I feel alone in the world. But it's all good because I don't know. I'm going to find a way to like shed this pain, you know, one way or another. When you say it's all good, help me understand. It doesn't seem all good.

No, I'm not all good right now. But I know in the future, I, I've done a lot of work on, like, self-reflection and, like, you know, just pretty much just, like, emotionally, like, become more intelligent. And not only that with, like, body, mind, spirit, chakras, whatever you want to say. So eventually, I will do the work that is necessary to be a human again. But right now, I'm sort of doing, I'm just kind of seeing, I'm on, like, a path right now that I have to see through, if that makes sense. Yeah. So you got to get to the end.

your journey. And this is maybe the tough part. Yeah. It's kind of the dark valley that you have to get through to kind of come out the other side. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And can I just think for a second, Mitch? Absolutely, man. No big deal. I feel like I'm playing a lot of catch-up because I think it's it's clear to me that you've been walking a very serious journey for some time now. And I'm just trying to recalibrate from the person that I first spoke to because you seem like you've changed a lot in a good way. Oh, I've definitely changed. You know, when you sort of just have to look at yourself in the mirror and just be honest, like that moment happened to me. And let me tell you, the person I was looking at fucking hated.

I hated the person I was looking at. That's why I was like, I, I, I just saw this insecure, sad dude running away from everything that makes him hurt. and just hiding behind this mask of, like, streaming success or whatever you want to call it. Just, like, sort of, maybe I wasn't, like, hiding, full-on hiding, but I was definitely running away. Like, my anxiety, my anxiety and all of the things that I have, like, held deep inside myself, I just ran away from them, you know? It goes back to, like, me feeling like I don't really have many deep connections, you know. I really don't have anyone to really call, you know?

It's like if I feel like, for example, this talk I'm having with you, I don't feel like I could have this talk with my own father. And he's like the only one in my family that is even like coherently enough to like hold a conversation with me. And that sucks. What gets in the way of you being able to have a conversation like this with your dad? He just isn't there emotionally for me. and he never really was. I think he's working on it now that he's getting older,

but at the same time, I think to my father, I'm just some sort of prop to him. Like, it's like, I'm his only son that is, like, functional and has a career and is doing stuff. And to him, I'm just sort of, like, like, his only thing to carry his name or whatever you want to call it.

Truthfully, I think if I had an older brother that was doing other things, dad would never even talk to me. That's actually how I feel. Wow. Yeah. So I'm kind of almost hearing that your value is sort of not based on you as a person, but sort of like the role you fill. Yeah. You're like the carrier of the legacy. Yeah, for sure. And there's some crazy things that I've gone through with, I don't know how personal I can get, but there are some crazy things that I've gone through in terms of just like betrayal in that regard where I was just like put in charge of things that I really shouldn't have been at a young age, you know? I mean, you can share,

you understand Twitch's terms of service better than I do. I'm happy to hear whatever you want to share, but also, you know, you don't you don't have to talk about that stuff. I think there's plenty that we can talk about in terms of a spiritual journey, but for sure. I just think, yeah, it's nothing like TOS or anything like that. It's more of just like morally incorrect things that have sort of happened, I guess. But yeah, like we don't have to dive deep into some deep crazy stuff if you know, if you, it's up to you. Well, let me kind of lay out how I think about that, Mitch. And then you tell me whether we should dive in. So what I'm hearing, what I'm hearing at the core of it is that there's Mitch Jones and then there's Mitch. Right. There's like the streamer personality.

there's the, I still remember the first time we talked. I still remember you kind of said, but it's all good. I'm Mitch Jones. Yeah, I remember that. And so I think it must have been like over a year ago. But like that, man, just the way you said that really encapsulated that there's like this persona on the outside and then there's like the person inside like moving the levers. Yeah, for sure.

And on the outside, it's like a big smile and lots of fun. Inside there's a dude who's like exhausted and sweaty and like can't get a breath of fresh air. Yeah, for sure. I think the Mitch Jones thing you're talking about is is gone now. Like even when I streamed shadow lines, I was not really putting on an act. It was more of just like being myself playing wow and trying to put out the best version of myself. But truthfully, Mitch Jones, the streamer, whatever person persona, whatever you want to call it, I think that person died when Wreckville

when Wreckville died like truthfully like I just I couldn't do it anymore and um yeah yeah do you remember earlier when I was like I need a second to process because you seem like a different person yeah for sure and I need to catch up I think what I'm grappling with is that I don't

detect a whole lot of Mitch Jones so I was like wait this is weird yeah no I've really I really dug into myself and That's why I changed, you know, from Twitch streaming to like music because I just want to be me and give that, you know, whether it's painful or not, like I need to give whatever it is that my soul is like it's just, I need to just be open heart. I don't want to be a closed heart anymore walking around, you know. So I think that sounds like it's, I'd love to talk about that. When it comes back to your dad, I want to just share a couple of thoughts. So what I'm really getting the sense of is that what you want more than anything else is to be connected. And that there was sort of like a farce that you could put on because at the end of the day,

there were like a couple of like people like Byron who you did feel connected to. And so that was kind of enough. But really losing him has helped you realize like you really need to be seen. You need to be heard. You need to be, I don't even want to say accepted. but you need to be treated with authenticity. And even if that's acceptance, that's fine. And even if that's rejection,

if people say like your music sucks, oddly enough I think you may be okay with that, as long as they're straight with you, that they see you for who you are. And they say, this is not for me or this is for me. You're actually okay either way. Yeah, I'm good. Like I said, I know who I am and what I need to do.

You know what I'm saying? and I'm more so just trying to show a deeper side of myself. And I am okay with acceptance or not acceptance. Either way, it's like, you know, I'm not looking for validation externally. I'm more so I've done the work internally to be able to share what I have to say, I guess, rather than just giving this, I don't know. I think streaming in general has just changed a lot. And I think the game now is more just like, it's just a big,

PR fest of shit and it doesn't really feel as genuine as when I was a part of it back like five, six years ago. And I'm just not really down for the game anymore, if that makes sense. Sure. You're, you got too much actual living to do to be pretending to live. Yeah. I mean, I've been in the back end of streaming and like the forefront of streaming for a long time. Like, I've seen it all. So I know, I just know. And I know it doesn't do anything. for like for like a deeper meaning it doesn't do shit like you know sure yeah so kind of the reason I mentioned this is because if we think a little bit about you know the stuff potentially like the weird stories of you know whatever betrayal or whatever yeah if what you're looking for is

connection right because that's really what I'm hearing is that yeah exactly exactly it's exactly what I'm looking for I just want people to feel me for me because I gave people this thing that me and I just like I feel like I want people to really feel like the actual me you know and it's not like an acceptance thing I just need them to know before I go that that's like that that person is and was there because people seem to have this like preconceived notion of me from years ago how I was like a jackass and all that but that that was part of the job for me and you know and I feel like I was creating a show whereas like now I just want to be I just want to be seen for who I am

not for like something that was built as like a career if that makes sense okay sounds wonderful and also I'm a tiny tiny tiny bit alarmed because you said before I go I'm curious what do you mean by that I'm more so mean like before I just drop off the social media grid.

Okay. Yeah. Like, I have a long-term plan of just ending up not in the public at all, you know? It's kind of just like, like I said, it's hard to really be an actual, like, human when you have to look at all of these different opinions of you every single day.

And yeah, you can just not look at it, but like, you know, that shit's like, like, how do you create art without connecting with your, you know,

the people that are following it, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah. Yeah. So what I'm kind of hearing is that you're on a journey to find who you are. You want to share that with other people. They can accept or reject it.

But that being engaged with them in a social media PR fest will actually negatively impact your journey. Because then it'll be about giving people what they want and you need to pull away from all that so that you can continue to create. Yeah, for sure. I think being truly creative, especially in an artistic. way, like whether you make art or whether you're a musician or whatever you do, I think it's very important to be at peace with yourself and really be able to express yourself, right? Like, if you're living this, like, reality where you're just juggling like five different, different, like, you know, the social media sphere where it's like a ladder climbing reality. Like, if you're

living that, then I don't think you can create, like, true art in my, in my opinion. And, like, I'm just trying to really paint a beautiful picture of some pain that I've gone through, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I think, you know, what we create is content. Yeah, content. There you go. So fucking soulless. Yeah, for sure. You know, it's interesting because even here at Healthy Gamer, what we create is content.

Yeah, true. I mean, it's all content, right? Yeah, so I think it's interesting because I think internally, we also have a, you know, kind of a process of like, You know, what do we want to do here? Do we want to grow or do we want to help people? And sometimes those are at odds with each other. For sure. And I do think sometimes people get caught up in a good thing that's bad for them, which is I think what I think sometimes there's good things that are not the, but it's not the correct thing for people. But because it's good, they stay doing it and they're not unhappy. Right. Like it's like someone that has, you know, a crazy position. at like some job that they work for and they're making you know a lot of money or whatever but they're just like they're not really fulfilling themselves in a way that like their deeper self wants to like express itself yeah so how would you know well i knew when i just look in the mirror and i wanted to beat the shit out of that person in the mirror that's what i knew i knew i just knew like you know it just hit me like but i only was able to get to that point because i was doing like off stream i was doing work on myself to like because i was just extremely depressed i was you know you know i just know, and I was like, how do I fix this? Like, I've always been a problem-solver kind of guy. So I was like, how do I fix this?

And the only way I was able to really, like, it's not like I fixed it, but the only way I was able to, like, get pieces of the pain to, like, sort of shed off of me. I didn't have to wear it as much was just through, like, the things that you taught me, like meditation, really diving deep into just yoga, definitely food that you eat, all of that. Like, cleansing my body sort of, like, enabled my mind. to like shed that pain. And it was a painful experience. And for a while I was absolutely crazy.

But I came out the other end knowing a lot more about myself, even if it was a painful journey to go through. Can you tell me about that journey? Sure. I mean, I was nuts for a while. Like I was on like, I tried all these diets. I tried like keto. I tried intermittent fasting.

I even fasted for 10 days straight where I didn't eat anything. I just drank water for 10 days. I did all of these things. just like, because you know, I was just researching like on the web. That's where I've learned everything. It's just like on the internet. So you kind of have to decipher like what is valuable information and what isn't and not like be an idiot about it.

But yeah, I was just like sort of like teaching myself more about the human body and the human mind, how it works, all that. So I think I, I don't know. I think I definitely learned a lot. But it was a painful experience for sure. So Mitch, you kind of, you'll use these words that have a lot of volume, but I'm not quite sure what I'm hearing, you'll say, I was crazy for a while. So I'm getting that, well, on the outside, I was crazy. Yeah. What does that mean? Well, a lot of people I feel like would view me as like crazy

or something if I'm just like doing all this. Like it looks manic like sort of, right? But to me, it was like something I had to go through. Does that make sense? Sort of. Because I don't, I'm like, I can understand your conclusion, but I'm having a lot of trouble understanding like, you know, when you were doing, let's say, keto or intermittent fasting, what were you experiencing? What were you looking for? I get that you've come out the other side, but cleansing. Yeah, I was looking to just cleanse, spiritually, mentally, physically, all of it.

How did you know you needed to cleanse? Because I was miserable. I had the most anxiety out of any human I'd ever met. I would wake up every day and constantly check my heartbeat just to see if it was beating. And if it was beating too fast, I would assume that I'm having like a heart attack or something. Like it was like I was literally crazy with anxiety. And the only thing that gave me a little bit of peace from that was cleansing my body. Like truthfully, like if I had kept eating the same way and keeping the same stress levels that I had from

streaming. And I stressed myself out with streaming because it was always like this like numbers game. Right. And like if I, if my shit wasn't doing well, like I had to pretty much just destroy the part of my ego that gave a fuck about streaming because that part of me was destroying me, whether it was like making me successful or not, that part of me was absolutely destroying me. And I literally had to just kill that part of me because living every day, just like, if I had a bad stream, the rest of the day, I would feel like I was a failure. I was a loser. I was a fuck up, whatever, you know? And I just

had to destroy that part of me because I literally could not keep living like that. How do you destroy that part of you? Just taking a lot of time off of streaming and healing and not looking at social media, going for walks in the woods, becoming a fucking human again, you know? Like, that's what helped me a lot, actually, was just not being plugged in and just being completely unplugged, sort of living a boring life for a while. But that boring life sort of gave me, I guess you could call it a dopamine fast for a long time, you know, yeah. Interesting.

It's funny, a couple weeks ago, speaking of content, I did a quick debunk of the dopamine mean fast and and talked a little bit about it but um you know it's interesting Mitch because I hear you say you had to kill that part of you but what I'm sort of hearing is that you sort of let it wither out and die. Yeah yeah yeah I would say it withered out yeah I didn't just like slay it with a sword die sort of it died a slow painful death yeah for sure but eventually like I said I came out the other side happier like even today like I'm still sad like obviously in this conversation is a little bit more sad because because I'm digging deep into the things that I still haven't really come to full fruition and,

like, dealt with, right? There's still a lot of things that hide inside of me and I have to deal with those. But, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's important to remember that the goal of spirituality is not to not feel sad anymore, because sadness is a part of life. It's to sort of feel peace or tranquility in the face of sadness. Yeah, for sure. Or in the face of excitement.

Yeah. And I do get the sense, Mitch, that you're more at peace now than I've ever seen you. I am more at peace now. And I have music to thank for that, truthfully. I think that putting all of my energy into a different outlet that isn't just built with that immediate feedback that Twitch had. Like, it just makes me slow down and able to live a better lifestyle, if that makes sense. Yeah, can you tell me a little bit about how music has helped you? Absolutely.

Well, when I first started music, I was just kind of dicking around or messing around with, you know, some viewers of mine or whatever. And then after like a couple songs, I was like, you know, I kind of want to try and make like a heartfelt song, right? And then I was like thinking to myself, like, what bothers me the most right now and what bothered me the most, but still bothers me the most is the fact that Wreckwell's no longer here. and I decided to just put all that pain into a song and in the first verse there's like a memory I have with Recful that this one haunts me like crazy is a week before he died

I was at his like condo downtown with like his roommate Merck I was hanging out with his roommate Merck and it was like 3 a.m. or something but Merck was like yeah like you can just pass out down they had like two condos right so he's like you could just pass out at the condo below. No one's there. He told me no one was there. And I go down there and I walk into the kitchen and I just

look over and I just see Byron like on the balcony just kind of like looking off into the sky, you know. And he was just like, you know, just pondering, like thinking, whatever. And I, in that moment I was like, I should go, you know, say something or talk to him. And I was like too scared to. I was like, oh, he might not want to see me or like, you know, maybe he doesn't want to talk right now. Maybe he's just, you know, having a moment to himself, whatever. So I just, I thought, you know, I really just turned around and went back upstairs, and then a week later he's gone. So, like, in the first verse of that song, it's like, I kind of talk about that story,

and I don't really go into the same detail that I just told you, but it's like I kind of put everything I had into that song when it came to the pain that I was dealing with from that situation, and I still live in regret every day, not being able to say anything to him that day. What do you regret about not being able to speak to him that day? My fear and anxiety stopped me from saying something to him, and I'll never get a chance to say anything again. I literally saw him a week before he died, and I said nothing.

It haunts me, like, really badly. When you say haunts you, how does that affect you? Nightmares, just, I don't know. It's like this, like, whenever I really deeply think about it, I just get this overwhelming sense of like grief, I guess. It's like a, it's like I messed up or something, you know? I'm going to think for a second, okay, Mitch? Yeah, you're fine.

What does your mind tell you would have happened if you did not let your fear and anxiety control you in that moment? I think I could have, I think I could have had a conversation. I think I could have helped Byron because at this time I was on some spiritual journey and whether I'm an idiot or not, I'd like to believe that I've learned some things and that I could. could have maybe, you know, just showed him that there's other ways to find happiness, you know? Like, I think he was already on a spiritual journey of his own. But I think that I don't know. Like if I had just spoken to him, I think it would have, I think it could have sparked something that may have helped, you know.

So I think it's fair to say that if you had said something, it could have sparked something that could have helped. Yeah. I think that's a very accurate assessment. And at the same time, I don't know, Mitch, if you've gotten to this point in your journey, but, like, you know, a big part of my understanding of the journey is that, like, things have to happen in a particular time and place. That you can regret as much as you want to about the past, but at the end of the day, it's the past that makes you the person that you are today.

Yeah. I know Yeah I know I'm just saying the person I am today I still have a lot of work to do I just yeah It's like I live every like the rest sickness That we talked about last year has gotten worse

But like I've found ways Of uh coping You know internally But truthfully like Yeah I feel alone as fuck man Like I do And uh

I'm trying my best To To cope with like you know and it's like on the internet i almost wasn't allowed to be sad you know it's like oh you're fucking making this much money or whatever like you're successful like shut the fuck up like that's kind of what i was like just like this boot up my ass like you know i'm not allowed it was like it just felt like a very i just couldn't be in that environment you know so i had to just stop yeah i had to just stop so you know Mitch i'm a little bit curious you know what

i mean i could send data your way i don't think that would really help I've read a lot of data. I know you. Like I said, I don't think it would help. You know, it's hard. So, you know, I deal with suicide a lot as a psychiatrist. I think it's really challenging for people to, you know, I think just about every person that I've talked to who's a survivor after someone they love or care about commit suicide has thoughts or experiences like yours, right? Like their mind finds one moment in particular.

And it'll sort of like think about, it'll usually involve personal weakness. Yeah. Right? Like where you'll say like, if I had been stronger than dot, dot, dot. Yeah. But the thing is, the person I am now, I feel like I would have made a different decision. Yeah. And so this is where if you want to get like, you know, off the deep end of spirituality, like,

what we have to understand is that the person that you are now was born out of that tragedy, was born out of that moment. Yeah. What do you think about that? I think it awoke me in a way, but it's like, I don't know if I was ready to be awoken that way,

but it happened regardless of what if I was ready or not. And, yeah, I think it took me on a journey of, like I said, spiritual, like a spiritual journey to where I started caring less and less about my ego and more and more about inner peace. Bro, the whole fucking internet was so, so asleep that that's what it took to wake us up. Yeah. Right? When you say you weren't ready, you're right, you weren't ready.

And that's why it was necessary. Right? because sometimes it takes a big ass wake-up call. And so I think this is where, like, this may sound kind of weird, but like, I'm going to lay a burden at your feet. Because if this is the price that was paid to wake you up, you better fucking be awake now, which I think you understand.

I'm definitely awake, man. And I am just trying to change the whole thing. Like, I'm trying to change everything that I used to do and do things in a correct way. Yeah. And that's why I do still struggle a little bit with like the internet and stuff because like you know there's obviously some people that say some pretty fucked up shit to me and it's like uh i don't really want to get into it but uh yeah i read

some terrible things like uh because i don't seem to do their research or know like how like i don't know yeah that is true yeah people people tend to make judgments very easily and that's and and you know there's a correlation between not doing your research and making judgments, which is that the more research you do, I think the harder it is to make a judgment. Yeah. And so what we end up with is a bunch of people who make judgments without doing any research, because that's the only way you can do it. Yeah, I just, I don't know.

I've never been someone that does that too often, especially, I don't know. So to me, it's hard for me to relate to that. I would never comment on someone else's like shit without like knowing what the fuck happened. Yeah. I think that that's a healthy way to go through life. but it's hard to do that, right? It takes a lot of effort. It's a lot easier to just judge.

For sure, for sure. And I don't think that should matter. Like, I think, you know, if I was as strong as I want to be and am capable of being, I don't think I would even pay any mind to that. But truthfully, it's like I was raised on the internet. And like, it just like, the opinions of people on the internet, obviously, you know, it matters to me, right? Just because this is like, to me, it's like, it's like, it's like, been my whole life.

you know so it's uh it's hard to look at it from a different point of view but that's what i'm working toward is looking at it from a different point of view absolutely yeah i mean i think like you said we were all raised on the internet so it's just how we how we function i was absolutely raised on the internet for sure which is like maybe a bad thing but definitely was raised on the internet yeah so this is also where i'd kind of think a little bit carmically for a second i'd say it's i don't think it's a bad thing. It's what you needed, right? So if you think about your struggles and even I venture to say your contributions, what I want, what I'm seeing in you, I don't know if this is actually true or not, but what I'm seeing in you, Mitch, is like, you are not alone in your struggle. You are not alone

in being a child of the internet. And actually, like, even more so today, children that are born today will be more a child of the internet than you are. Right? Because things are, getting worse. I think you're right. I think they are getting worse. So if you think about it, you had a couple of years before, as you put it, Twitch became PR bullshit. But now everyone coming up on Twitch is existing in this current world.

Yeah, which this current world, I feel like, is just filled with manipulation and what can you do for me and all these people that are just running around with their heads cut off, trying to like build this false sense of ego and add things to their resume. And then they're going to wake up one day and be like, like, wow, I wasted my whole life chasing a dragon that didn't even make me happy. And I'm glad that I realized that at a young age because if I didn't, I would still be that fucking idiot person, you know, sitting there and just doing this like shallow-ass shit trying to make myself feel like I'm cool.

Yeah. So hopefully your music will help people get there. Yeah, for sure. You know? So I'd also be a little bit careful because I'm still detecting some amount of ego and judgment towards them. What do you think? Bitterness? Who's them?

I don't know. But you're talking about, you're talking about people. Oh, yeah, no, I, yeah, you're right for sure. No, I definitely have a little bit of like resentment and stuff towards like, just like ignorance in the world.

I really, like, and when I say people, it's more so just like the manipulation that is like behind the scenes. It's not really like the viewers or any of that. It's more of just like, the things that I've, seen on the back end of just straight ass nine like some acting that deserves an oscar winning a war type shit you know i've just seen i've seen everything man and uh it's sad to see just the masses

be fooled on the fucking scale that's like i don't really feel like getting more deep into it but uh it's just i've seen it all just trust me i've seen it all yeah i i don't doubt that you've seen it all i'm just a little bit confused and i want to be careful because i don't you know i don't to push you into starting drama and at the same oh it has nothing to do with anyone like no drama none of that shit like this this honestly stems from like my father and other things like that like obviously this happens on the you know it's it's just a lot of things i just feel like i have trouble trusting people because of uh the experiences i've gone through okay so now we're going to kind of take a i'm going to take a slightly different approach Mitch just toss something out you decide whether it's worth

pursuing so i feel like we're talking a little bit more spiritually and the reason i had mentioned to your father, I'm glad you brought him up again, is because if your challenge is to connect with other humans, okay, let's say that, like, I feel alone. I think if we want to try to understand that, there's absolutely a spiritual element that we've talked about. It's like, hey, I put on a mask, I become this person that I want to be.

I hate what I see when I look in the mirror, shedding that mask, letting that ego wither away, starting your creative process, putting something out there that is authentically you, giving people an opportunity to connect with that. we walk down that road. There's another element here,

which we can talk more about that. I don't think that's done. But there's another element here which is just very simply from like a psychological standpoint from a social conditioning standpoint. If you're telling me that your problem is loneliness and you're telling me that you've been deeply betrayed,

as long as that emotional energy of betrayal and that the conditioning, the adaptations that happened in your mind due to that betrayal exist. It's going to be hard to connect to other people, bro. Oh, yeah, for sure. But I feel like I've done a good job of forgiving those people. That's the first step to me was, like, forgiveness of the betrayal.

But it doesn't, it doesn't, like, fill the hole that still exists, you know? Like, I have forgave most, you know, everything that's happened to me. And, like, especially on the internet shit. Like, I could give a shit about that. But it's, yeah, like, there's people in chat saying, train, for example. But me and train talk daily and are, like, our good friends. So like this is again like the ignorance does bother me a little bit because that guy who typed that didn't do his research and for me that's annoying. But like I don't know.

It's just part of why I quit streaming. You know, I don't feel like babysitting all day. So but then what do you think? Why do you what's the whole if you've forgiven? What's left? What help me understand that? What do you mean? So you said like like you've you've learned how to authentically forgive, which you know, sure.

if that's what you're saying, I think I trust you there. But I'm curious then like, what's the hole that's left? You said that like that doesn't repair the hole or doesn't fill the hole. Yeah, I think the hole that's left is just

like I said, I want to express myself in a true manner. You know, that's like the hole. And obviously, once I do that, I feel like maybe I'll be able to connect with people easier and not have as many walls put up or whatever is like stopping me from experiencing like love or something like similar to that,

you know, just like deep connections, I guess. So Mitch, at this point, I think I'm about to ask you to tell me more or I am, I do actually at this point want to know a little bit more about your dad. But let me first explain my reasoning. Sure. So what I'm hearing is that you feel an emptiness and lack of connection on the inside. and what you've hypothesized. So you've started on this spiritual journey

and you're going to create this music and you're going to share it the world and you'll hopefully connect with people. In my experience, that is going to be an important but insufficient step. For sure. And so I think that what I'm hearing is that you have walls up,

but making music may be a part of that process, but there's a part of me that just the way you're describing things makes me feel like maybe there's something to be learned or gained from like understanding more of the details because you you know all the details and based on the details you've come up with a hypothesis if we think about you know what i try to do and what i try to help people with it's it's not just to sort of fulfill the plan that they've created it's actually to sort of figure out if the way that you've constructed your hypothesis is missing something and this is the first time during our conversation where I feel like maybe something is not adding up for me.

Like with all the spiritual stuff, oddly enough, with the grief stuff, things like that, all that stuff, like I'm with you 100%. I think I like, I think it makes perfect sense. For some reason, I'm getting the sense that there's a blind spot, something about with what you're talking about now. Yeah, for sure. There definitely is a blind spot. I just think it's a lot to indulge into.

But I mean, I can tell you what, like, what bothers. me and I don't know I just it's hard to explain I just feel as though I'm constricted of what I can say just because I do really feel as though my father is all that I do have and even though our relationship is shit it's like maybe it one day wouldn't be and if I just air out all of the shitty things that have happened that I'm just forever closing that portal I guess okay I'm so glad you shared that because let's think about this, okay? So, number one, our North Star, our primary compass is we do not want to have a conversation with you or do anything that will hurt you in any way, shape, or form. Okay?

So if you feel like talking about this stuff and airing this shit out is going to negatively impact your relationship with your father, we don't want to do it. Hi, welcome to your neighborhood pharmacy. Hi. I've got a prescription for diabetes test strips. How much is the copay? Well, it depends on your type of commercial insurance and factoring in your yearly spend, subtracting the deductibles,

also depending on your monthly allowance based on... Why can't there be a better option? Or you could try Contournext test strips. A 35 counts only 1999 over-the-counter and proven to be highly accurate. Go to contournex.com slash radio to see if over-the-counter strips are a more affordable option for you.

I think I'll try Contour Next. Well, I don't even think he would ever see. this because he's never given shit about what I've done on the internet. So, but regardless, yeah, go ahead. So then this is the thing, right? So, like, I think this is what I'm kind of picking up on. Like, you're kind of thinking if you air this shit, it'll close the portal forever. I know it sounds kind of weird. It's the this will close the door forever if I do this thing. That's not how life works. Right? I mean, sometimes you can have catastrophic events like death. right, where doors are sort of closed forever.

But, you know, that's the rarity. And what I'm wondering is if that fear of closing the door forever is part of what is actually the problem. Yeah, it probably is part of the problem. I actually do have a lot of fear about that. Like, I've wanted to speak about the things that have, like, really bothered me about that situation. But I've sort of kept it to myself. And, yeah, it's. It's something that is difficult to think and speak about for sure.

Yeah. So now we have a choice. Okay. So I'm going to toss out one statement. This is going to be inflammatory. It may evoke emotions. But in the past, Mitch, have you, has your fear controlled what you want to say? Right.

So like here we are again, where we want to give you time and space, but like I'm going to point it out to you because if your fear of saying something, like, we actually don't want to hurt you, right? We don't want you to do anything that's going to like end up bad. So we want to be sensitive that. We don't want to create drama. We don't want to ruin your relationship with your dad. But if he ain't going to watch it, then like that fear is all in here. Yeah, it is internally. Yeah, it is.

It is. Yeah. It is internally. I have a. It's just so fucked up, man. Like, I don't, I don't know. So once again, if you're not ready to talk about it, that's actually fine. I'm okay with that.

But I think at the least what we should talk about is your. fear about not like you don't actually have to talk about it the important thing is not whether you share some story or not the important thing is the fear that's controlling you yeah for sure it's not i guess it is fear yeah i guess it is fear it's more of a thing where it's like am i the piece of shit if i talk about it you know like it's it's like it's like it could be that's the problem right it's like i just think of these in this like skewed way because it's like if i talk about things that bother me then there's always going to be people that are assuming that I'm saying X for Y reason, you know, it's like I don't feel like I

don't feel like if I make myself vulnerable that it won't be twisted in some way because most of the times I have made myself vulnerable, it has been twisted in some way. And and I don't feel safe in that way. Yeah. All right, Mitch, I need your help. Okay? Yeah. I need you to tell me if I'm bullying the shit out of you. no man you're you're fine wait for it okay so here's the thing like bro that's exactly the problem like here you are not being authentic about the person that you like what you feel on the inside because you're like oh what if these people think i'm saying this shit for PR like that's exactly what you've spent the last who knows how many months getting away from is to connect to your

authenticity and not give a fuck about how people are going to judge you and you speak your truth. Yeah, you're right. It actually is fear holding me back from that. You're right. It's like, it's all about this like how, you know, it's more, it's not just like PR. It's more of like how would my, like, it's like how would my father twist that? Like, let's say my father heard this conversation and I said what bothered me. How would he twist that to me? That's more of what I'm talking about. You know, it's like. And why the fuck that started with your dad in Now you're doing it with the rest of the internet. Yeah, you're right.

Yeah, you're not wrong. I'm like literally, I'm literally like fucked up from that and I just put that on everyone else. It's like, I'm like, oh, yeah. But you're right. Yeah, you're right. I just assumed the internet would do the same thing. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

You're right because the internet, because, but you learn how to recognize that pattern and be afraid of it. But it sounds like that started with your dad. And like the internet was just, you know, not taking you seriously 2.0. But I don't even know because I actually don't know. I mean, I could be talking completely out of my ass because I still don't know what happened with your dad. And that's sort of why I want. I can give you a little bit of details.

Like I'm just going to slowly ease into it rather than just like, you know what I'm saying. That's what I mean about bullying you. I don't want you to like, you know, push you into speaking. No, if I unleashed all that, I would probably just, yeah, my mind would not be good. Like it's like I have to deal with this like one thing. phase of the time type of, yeah. But a big thing, a couple things that happened was I feel like I told you about the situation with my brother, right, where it's like I just feel as though, like, I guess I can just

tell one story, but please just like hear me out because this is very personal shit, you know I'm saying? Yeah, well, there was one, I was like 23 or so, and my brother had always, he grew up with autism like Asperger's. and he was always different but he was a good he was a good smart dude you know he used to paint

and he had some beautiful paintings man like uh yeah he was very talented dude and uh as he grew up like my mother got really ill and my mother was kind of the main like caretaker for him and like held his hand through life and shit you know and um I just remember one time when I was 20 my dad was like my brother was falling apart

you know he was he was not showing He was My mother was not able to take care of him anymore And were you going to say something? Yeah, I think I'm lagging from a server standpoint I'm wondering if this is the universe's way of Like double checking that we want to say what we're about to say I mean, I can stop

It's up to you, man I think that this feels important to me But at the same time, like absolutely like I don't want to pressure you into this. You know? Yeah, I don't really feel pressured. I just, like I already told you, the things that I'm fearful of is more so just, yeah, just, I think sometimes when you are honest and have an open heart,

people like to sort of stab that invulnerability or that, sorry, that vulnerability. And, yeah, that's the only thing I'm fearful. of is that I don't know. I just, yeah. So we'll, I'd like to help you feel supported enough to be able to be courageous and to help you be more vulnerable, despite the fact that you've learned probably the hard, I mean, undoubtedly the hard way that that's a bad idea. So if you're cool with it, I'd love to hear the rest of that story.

You were talking about your brother and how he made good art. Yeah. Yeah, my brother, hold on. All right. Yeah, okay. So the story, I don't know where we left off, but my brother, yeah, he makes good art. And he, there was one time when I was 23, and my dad, or sorry, my brother was not doing well. He was, you know, not taking care of himself because my mother was not.

able to take care of him the way she used to because of her own illness. And there was like, my dad told me, I had, I rented, this is like when my stream first started doing well, so I rented the house next door to my mom's house because I wanted to be close to her. And I was with my friend, Ethan. We lived at this place next door, right? And my dad called me and he's like, hey, I need you to do me a favor. I was like, okay, what is it?

And he just said, I've called social services. And they're picking up your brother. And you need to go there and moderate it and make sure everything goes okay. And I'm just like, what? Why the hell am I doing that? You know? And he just put that all on me. And I remember the fucking cops came and they were just like, they were like,

my, they were like, my brother is like not aggressive, but you know how any cops are, man? They're just, they're like, you know, guns blazing type shit. and it's just like, dude, like they were scaring the shit out of my brother, man. And I had to just sit there and calm him down like, hey, please, he's not aggressive. You know, he has autism. You're going to scare him. Like, I had to deal with all of this. And, like, I didn't have any support from my family.

And I just sat there while my mom, who is struggling with her own health problems, has no idea what's going on because she's had multiple strokes and has had brain surgery and brain cancer. And she's just sitting there crying, doesn't know what the fuck's going on. and I had to like moderate all of this while my father just dipped, you know? And it's like, I don't know. And it just ate me inside, man. I saw that. And to this day,

my brother is just rotting away somewhere with like a bunch of like crazies, man. Like there's just no way he's happy. And this shit just weighs so heavy on my fucking soul, man. Like, I don't know what to do. And I feel like I have trouble talking about any of this shit. And it's like, I may, I don't know, man. It's just hard for me to even think about it.

Like, it sucks. I feel like all of the parts of my childhood that I loved are just gone. And I don't know what to do. Okay. So, Mitch, we're going to help you with this. All right? So I don't think we need to talk more about your past, but that was a really powerful share.

And I can sort of see so much. Can I start talking? Yeah. The first thing is, holy shit, no wonder you feel alone. I feel so alone, man. Like, I feel, and not only that, like, I've never shared this shit.

You know, like, this shit is, like, shit that I've been trying my best to just deal with on my own. And I just portrayed myself as, like, this put-together gamer or whatever. Like, that was my escape from all of this shit, you know?

And, uh, once you just really dig inside yourself and realize you can't escape, you can't, no matter how successful you become, no matter how far away you run, this shit will destroy you, man. And it fucks me up every fucking day.

Okay, Mitch. Are you in a space to listen? I am, yeah. So you were 100% right. that no matter how far you run, you can't escape. And that's because you carry it inside you. You know, if I have kryptonite, if I have kryptonite in my backpack and I go for a jog,

I'm taking that shit with me, bro. Yeah. And if I were to think about speaking of artistry and imagery, can you hear me okay? I can. Okay. I know you're hurting. I'm going to talk.

Okay. Is that okay? Yeah, obviously. A lot has become. clear for me. And I think that you can't escape from it, but you can absolutely deal with it. And that's becoming clear to me. So I know it sounds weird. Like I know that you're feeling like shattered and shit. And I'm sorry if I, you know, because I did that sort of. I mean, it was there. But Mitch, I feel hopeful. I need to help my brother somehow, man.

We'll get to your brother in a second. Okay. Let's focus on you for a second. Can you do that for me, bro? Yeah. So if I were to, if I were to, if I were to, if I were to, if I were to make a picture, okay, maybe not. What are you feeling? Sorry, bitch. I'm good, I'm good. Oh good. I'm good. No, let's tell me. What, what are you feeling? I don't, I don't need to get all ugly right now. Just, it's fine, man. Like just, I'm having trouble. I just need a deep breath. Okay. Yeah, let's breathe. Like I said, it's like, I do, I have thought about these things before. And it's like, but alone, you know, like, I don't talk about this shit. And it's just, I just, yeah, I'm, I had a plan, though, with all this shit, you know?

Like, I really did. Like, I don't know. I had a plan, man. It's like, I'm just trying to do an ounce of good, bro. You know, like, I, for my, for my fucking, I've just lost the fucking child, like, the person that I once was, you know, it's gone. Like, it's just been fucking shattered, man. Like, oh, I just, I feel like the world is just. dampened me and uh i have a lot to share yeah yeah so i know it sounds weird mitch but do you have a sense

of why i could be hopeful when you say things like that no can you tell me why yeah it's weird right because the first thing is like because you're not alone in this moment like you're saying that you don't share this stuff and you just did right because like the problem here is that you've been this shit all by yourself. And like, that's like you're carrying it with you wherever you go and you're the only one who's carrying it. So like right now in this moment, what I saw you do is take off your backpack for a second and pass it to me. Right. And I can hold it for a few seconds before I pass it back, which is fine, man. Like the only way this works is for you to like not be alone anymore. Right? And this is the challenge is like when I think about I'm going to just keep talking,

okay? Whatever you're feeling, you got to tell me if I should stop. Feeling like a dick for keeping talking, but I'm going to keep going. So here's what I'm seeing, Mitch. If you were to ask me, I'll look, paint a portrait of loneliness. What I would have done before this conversation, you listening? Yeah. I'm going to keep going, okay? You tell me when to stop. Do I need to stop?

No, you're good. Okay, I'm going to keep going, okay? Yeah. If you were to tell me to paint a portrait of loneliness, I would have painted a person by themselves in an empty room. And what I'm realizing now, what that painting involves is if I had taken a snapshot of you being on the phone, being 23 years old,

walking into a room that has cops, your autistic brother and your mom with cancer and strokes. That is the portrait of loneliness in a nutshell. And so it feels overwhelming to share it. But I'm going to ask you a question, Mitch. Do you feel alone right now? No, no, I don't. I just feel very vulnerable.

Yep. Because this is it, right? Like it's really hard to like bear your chest because you don't know if the knife is coming. Yeah. Mitch, bro, this is a part of your journey and I know you feel vulnerable and we're going to sit with you, okay? Yeah. We're just going to sit. You don't need to do anything.

You don't need to say anything. I can talk if you want to. I can listen if you want to. How can I heal this? Like even just opening this small little window has made me. just feel uncontrollably sad and I have that image in my mind Yeah

The image in my mind And um I just remember how much My brother and my mother Loved me You know I was Just like a year A year or two ago

I just went My brother had this I can't even fucking talk man He had this like chest Full of like everything he had collected and he had like a, he had these Game Boy files. It was like Game Boy Blue

and Game Boy Red. And one of the files was, he like named the file after me and he put up the file and just like logged into the game. He completed everything 100%. He just misses me, you know? And I just feel like

I was just running away Because I can't face this shit, man I can't face this shit Okay, Mitch I'm gonna say something weird to you That you're probably gonna push back against I'll ask you a question Is it okay to not be able to face it?

No, it's not okay Because There's no one else that will You know, there's no one else that will So if I don't I'm going to have to die with this paint You are I know this is gonna sound

Fucking weird Mitch But I want you to listen Okay I want you to use whatever ounce of energy you have to listen to my words Can you do that right now? Probably not Maybe not Yeah if you give me like one second man

Yep I can listen Just give me one second yeah Yeah You wanna take a break for a bit Go wash your face Something like that compose yourself Yeah I'm sorry if I'm keeping you up

I don't know how this You know I don't know how this You know I don't no, man. Well, looks like we opened Pandora's box, so we're going to put it in order, okay? We're here, bro. There's no rush. God, man. It's like everything that I ran from. Like, you know, I ran from this. I met the streaming people that I met. And now I can't even talk to them, man. Like, this world is just so weird. And like, I swear it's just like, I don't know, man. I don't know.

All right, yeah, I'm going to take a second, can't? Yeah, take a second. All right. All right, so I guess if people are watching... I forgot for a second that this is being streamed. All right, so let's take this opportunity all of us to take a second, okay? So feelings can be powerful. They can control us.

And that's okay. And that, you know, learn. how to tolerate feelings, sit with feelings, letting them out is absolutely like an important part of this process if we want to heal. All right. I've collected myself a bit. I apologize. What are you apologizing for? I don't know. I just need to keep myself put together, you know? I just apologize for, I don't know, just everything. I don't think you did anything wrong. I'm worried I did. Yep. I understand that you're worried and I understand that your instinct is to apologize. And I think what happened is, let's be honest, I pushed you a little bit.

I felt like there was something important there. And you have a Pandora's box. I have a soul that bleeds so hard. Yep. And everyone just views me as this person that I could. created and I hate that person. It's like, I live like a double life and I, my life is fucking weird, man. Yeah. So Mitch, like, this is why I have hope for you because in this moment, you are no longer living a double life. There is no longer the dude on the inside

and the dude on the outside. And you ask, how can you heal from this? Well, you opened a window in this, it smells like shit in there. And so the, the smell that comes out is so over There's so much emotional pain. There's so much negativity. But the whole reason that it's in there is because you never open up the window. You've just made a huge step forward. And when it comes to your brother, you're right that if you are not there for him, you will die with this pain. Mitch, how old are you?

I'm turning 29 in two days. And how long are you going to be alive? I don't know. So let's say that If I carry this pain And the stress I've learned enough about health That that that shit will probably end up giving me

Some sort of illness that I don't want so Yep So let's say that average average life expectancy in the US is 72 Or so So you've got about 43 years left If you have chronic illness You knock off 10 off of that

So you've got 33 years left So this is where I want I know it's going to be be hard because you feel guilty for abandoning your brother. Okay. But I think this is where like, do you need to be there for them? For him? I'm going to say, yeah.

And if you say because no one else will, I will say, yes, Mitch, you are correct. That is your Dharma. That is your duty. And you don't need to do it right this second. Yeah. Right? I honestly had a hard time. I had a hard time.

Every time I would call him. I've called him. I visited actually a couple of years ago on Christmas, and wherever they have him, they have him on a lot of drugs. I think that's just part of how the system works here, where it's like we deem you unfit for society, so we put you on drugs. But that's the last thing he needed.

They have just damp into my brother to a point where he's just complacent. and there's no he's not like he needs help okay so I understand that I may have a slightly different perspective but that's neither here

nor there but I think like in my mind your road is pretty clear and you're walking it right so this started with you streaming at the age of 20 becoming successful developing an ego getting involved in drama starting to die on the inside.

Yeah, running away from the true pain. Yep, and then you started waking up. And you lost Byron. And that was hard for you, and it was hard for me, and it was hard for everyone. It was so hard for me, man. Yep. Dude, he was like the one, I talked to him about this shit.

He knew all this shit. I talked to him. We had so many hearts of hearts about shit. Yeah. And Byron was someone that Had been in this Streaming world so long too that we were both so fucking over it man And

Oh man I just wish I could talk to him one more time Well I mean I know it sounds kind of weird But Mitch you can talk to him Right like you may not be able to hear his words But you can still talk to him I do I literally fucking send

I fucking am crazy Like I literally DM his Twitter every now and then. Like he's there. I'm just like, yo, man. I don't know. There's very few people that you meet in this world that will listen to you. And he listened to me, you know? So Mitch, I know this is going to sound kind of weird.

I think that that has been your experience so far. But what I'm seeing right now makes me hopeful that there are a lot of people in this world that if you give them the chance, they will listen. And maybe this is a consequence of streaming and shit because like you said, you know, there's always an ulterior motive. So people who are like streaming like this is a challenge that we see is like you're in the business of friendship.

Right. Yeah. Exactly. It's all like half of it is like a sham in my eyes. Half of it is just like I want to be friends with X person because X person can do this for me. And like it's so empty. Dude, it is empty as fuck. And like, I don't understand why people want to be that.

Why do you want to be? Like, why do you want to feel like me in the end? Nobody, you know what I mean? Like, so Mitch, let that go as best as you can. Okay. And recognize that when you make your music, you are taking one step closer to connecting. When you share this today and you open the Pandora's box and all the emotion comes rushing out and it feels overwhelming,

you are taking one step closer to being authentic and like letting that healing process begin. This is what healing looks like. You know, surgery ain't pretty. It's not like, wow, where you see these beautiful green pluses and a bar fills up. No, trust me, I know. Healing is. Like I said, go ahead. I'm sorry for cutting.

I was going to say, like, healing is more like blood magic, like, in reality, right? It's like you pay the price to fuel that healing. Yeah, and, like, I paid the price. Like, I've done some work to deal with this, but as soon as I go a little deep, even, like, alone, like, this comes out in me. And, like, this is where I was at when I was making music, you know, it was like, this would come out. And I would just be sitting there, like, writing and, like, just putting it into the, like words, I guess. And like to me, that was sort of therapeutic, but it doesn't fix the problem, you know? Yeah. So I think you've done a lot on your own. But bro, this is where like you're right.

Like I don't know that it's the, I mean, I'm sure you can because you're still young. I mean, you've got, you made a lot of good breakthroughs and you'll keep making breakthroughs. But this is where I'd say, bro, don't walk this journey alone. This is not a journey you need to walk alone. I understand why you feel alone I understand that there have been people in your life who should have been very close to you and like that has like your dad kind of dumped that shit on you

and then you know there have been people who have you haven't been able to connect to but this is where you need to party up this is not a single player game anymore making music sure I feel like making music is more of a way it's more of a deeper way of doing my job

if that makes sense, you know? Like, I just feel like as a streamer, I couldn't. I had to just, I had to, you know, like nobody wants to watch this shit. You know what I mean? Like, people want to watch a happy person playing a game. But like with music, like, people can relate and there's a message and a story.

And it's like, it's authentic, you know? And that's why I felt like, I, yeah. Yeah, Mitch, your music has, the pain has purpose when it comes to your music. And so I can totally respect that. But, you know, that's like, that's one part of your journey that I think is awesome that you've been watching. But there's like, this is the blind spot that I'm talking about. Like, this shit needs to be dealt with directly.

Right. Like, you need to share these stories and let them out of your soul. When you say your soul bleeds on the inside, yeah, that's because it's like stuck full of knives and like you're not pulling them out. Because when you pull that knife. out, the blood starts spurting more. Yeah, and then when the blood spurts more, I'm in fear of how, you know, people will, like, I don't want to be attacked when I'm opening myself up on the most vulnerable level, because I have, I have been attacked before, you know, on a wide scale.

And, like, I know, like, that pain as well, you know, the pain of being widely hated by the internet. That was my reality for, like, two years. And it, like, it was, it was mainly hurting my ego, which I learned to. get away from that and not really give a shit about that side of things as much as more, which I'm glad I made that development as well. But like, I'm in fear that if I pull the knives out on a scale where it's not just me alone in a room by myself, that I'll just bleed out until I'm dead, you know?

Yes. So, so, bro, listen, like very simply, right, you've got 32 years left. And so what I want you to do very- I'm dying at 60? Yeah. This shit keeps going, right? And I'd give yourself like two or three years. Like honestly, I'd give yourself two or three years to put yourself in a good headspace before you help your brother.

But should you help him? Yes. Absolutely. Are you the only one who can? Probably. Yeah. And so like I get that he's kind of medicated out and stuff like that. But that too, I mean, they're, you know, I know it sounds kind of weird.

You just got to trust me on this one. As a psychiatrist, sometimes there are people. I see their family members who come and see like their chronically mentally ill family and they're devastated by what they see. But honestly, like, there are some places that are pretty good where people are actually happy there. I know it sounds crazy. Yeah. I know it sounds absolutely crazy. But like there is happiness to be found in a mental hospital and way too many people fall in love.

That's a whole different problem. But anyway, I. I just, when I visited there, it didn't seem like an environment where he could thrive to the fullest. That's all. So I can't comment on that facility. But, you know, I know it sounds shocking and it can be emotionally painful to accept. But, like, having worked in some of those facilities, I know if that I had family members who were like that, like, I would actually be willing to send them there. Because I know that life on the outside can actually be harder.

Anyway, I'm getting off into taking. Yeah, you kind of come back to you. My point to you is that, you know, I would, to a certain degree, trust what your mind is telling you, but also recognize that like, you know, if you're, that for now, this may not be quite as bad for your brother is emotionally you think it is. Because your feelings of abandonment are going to amplify the situation that you see him in. Does that make sense? Yeah. So I'm not saying you shouldn't get him out of there. I'm not saying you shouldn't do more for him.

By all means, do both of those things. but cut yourself a little bit of slack, right? Because you were thrust into this situation at the age of 23, and the responsibility for your brother, while it's unfortunate that all of it falls on to you, you can't be expected to bear it right away. Yeah. So be patient with yourself.

It's not only that. My mother as well. It's not just my brother. It's my mother as well. So I will say this to you in the strongest possible way. So when you say it's hard to be vulnerable because you've been punished. So what you need more than anything else, Mitch, is a regular person. I would highly recommend therapy where you can go in on a weekly basis and share this shit, open one tiny window at a time.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've never actually given therapy 100% of a try. I have spoken to people, but it was just, it just didn't get anywhere. Yeah, so I think that you probably The spiritual fortitude that you've developed over the last year Will hopefully help you Handle therapy like a little bit better and get more out of it Maybe you just weren't ready yet

But I think now that you've done all of this personal work It's time to start cleaning out the cellar And you're right that if you pull everything out of your soul all at once alone there's going to be too much bleeding out that happens. That's exactly what happened to me. I went into this alone and was trying to just deal with the pain through just like body manipulation, I guess, you know? And it worked.

Like, I was bleeding, but holy shit, I was bleeding so hard that I didn't even want to continue, you know? And it's like that was very, like, some of the moments that I hit in those times when I truly opened up, even alone were almost too much, you know, and I can't even imagine if I was that person with, you know, telling to somebody else, you know, it just feels like you're even, it's, it's weird, you know. I don't know. I had a couple eye-opening moments, though, when I was trying to deal with this on my own. So, Mitch, you were, I think, an amazing example,

an amazing example of the benefits and shortcomings of spirituality when it comes to, to dealing with something incredibly traumatic. Because there is no doubt in my mind that you've come a very long way on your own. It's amazing. Like even that one story is like absolutely heartbreaking and soul shattering. There's, man, there's so many more.

Yep. So we're not going to go there. Okay. So now I'm going to set a limit if I can. Because I think we don't, we want to, like we want to do this sort of like, you know, like one step at a time. Yeah.

Yeah. Right? So I think that's healthy. Anything more than that, I think, would feel a little bit too much. Yeah, and I appreciate you, for real. I feel, I feel, like, after I've calmed down, I feel a little, like, a little, like, I don't feel as heavy, I guess. I feel a little bit, like, better. I still feel like I have a lot to do, and there's, you know, but I do feel a bit better.

Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Bro, you're right. You have a shit ton to do. But this is how we have, we have to teach you. You have to learn how to do it in a safe way, right? Like, you don't go jumping into the Pacific. ocean. It's like let's step into the kitty pool. Let's try swimming four feet. Let's, you know,

kitty pool sounds good. Yeah. And I think, bro, like, it's amazing. Like, you've done awesome stuff with diet and it sounds like you're, you know, making music and it's like very authentic. And I think it's really unfortunate. But, you know, the most beautiful art is created by the most painful life. And that's why as a society, we love art. Right. Because it's, to us on the level that, like, you know, an artist that painted a painting 700 years ago can talk to you today. You can feel connected with them. So, like, I don't know, this is going to sound kind of random. I'm going to say this to kind of lighten the mood. You know that song In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins?

I do. The one that was in Tarzan, I think. No. I don't know. What movies is that. But it's one of these songs we're like, I don't know what the fuck he's talking about. Because the lyrics are so damn vague. He just says, I can feel it coming in the air tonight. That's all he says. Yeah. And I have no idea what he's talking about, but I understand him 100%. Yeah, that's why music is special. I feel like even if you haven't gone to the depths of pain that the person is speaking of, there's human consciousness that can sort of connect with it. Absolutely. So like you walk that spiritual journey, you create your music, have it be part of your growth, have it be part of your therapy. And also, work with someone else. Don't bear this shit alone.

But you see why the music helps me, though. It's like, if I can't share this in a way through words, it's like I'm looking for deep connections, right? So if I can deeply connect with somebody out there through music, then I've done, that's what I'm looking for, love, whatever you want to call it, You know, some sort of thing that isn't just on the surface. Like, I really strive to for that. Can you tell me a little bit about your music? Yeah, what about it? Just tell me about it.

Wow, and what in specific? What do you mean? So I understand what you're striving to do. What have you made, like, what are you conveying through your music? My story, you know, the, my, uh, my, my, uh, my, my, uh, my little album that's coming out on my birthday and three two days is like it's it just tells a story you know and uh so yeah i'm trying to just convey my story in in little windows like you said um and be able to relate on a level where i feel like i can connect with people because i felt

like as a streamer i was having difficulty connecting with people awesome man yeah Mitch, you really come a long way, dude. Thank you, bro. I appreciate you saying that for real. It means a lot to me. Thank you. I'm going to do my best not to get emotional, but I'm going to toss this last one out.

I feel really it's heartbreaking to me that you've had to come so far on your own. And if I had, if I could change one, if I had a magic one that could change one thing in your life, I wouldn't try to take away your journey because I think it's important and healthy to walk the journeys that we walk even if they're painful. The only thing that I wish is that you didn't have to walk it alone.

Yeah. I appreciate you for saying that. Even after just talking to you, I don't feel as alone as I did. I feel like you were able to listen to me. And thank you for that. This was very scary for me, and I still am worried, you know,

but it's all good. I feel like that's part of me just accepting things for what they are. Yeah, man, I think it makes sense to me that this felt good and it's scary because I think learning how to trust is going to be a slow process. Yeah, it's very hard for me. Very, very, very, very hard for me. The saddest thing about trust is that it can take a lifetime to build and a moment to shatter. Yeah, for sure.

and that's another thing with the music is like on Friday at like I scheduled for like 3 p.m. I'm doing like a live or like a performance or whatever and I'm like I'm really anxious that you know but I feel like that's going to help me just like be in that moment like those like flow state moments where you can really just be yourself like those are kind of the moments I like live for you know

and I'm just looking forward to trying something different whether people shit on me or not, I'm just going to keep pushing my head, face strong into the fucking brick wall until it collapses, you know? Like, I'm just going to keep going, man. Yeah, man. Yeah.

Mad respect, I think. Here's what I'd say to you, Mitch. Like you kind of said, whether people like it or don't like it, it's not about what people like or don't like. It's about what you have to offer. Yeah. So if you're doing a live stream, you know, what I'd say to you is like,

you may be worried, oh, what if I screw up or whatever? Like, it's not about screwing up or doing a good job. It's about giving us whatever you have to offer. Yeah, I'm just very nervous. I haven't streamed. I haven't streamed in six months, and I'm doing something completely different. And it's just, it just, you know, it's just a little nerve-wracking.

It's all. Yeah, I can imagine, man. I do not, I do not envy you. Yeah, for sure. I don't think anyone does. Oh, man. Sounds rough, bro. Not going to lie.

But man, I can feel the weight of your scrotum growing from here. Yeah, let's hope it goes, it'll go well. I got to think positively, you know? Yeah. It's like my message is real. My feelings, my heart, my soul is in this shit, you know. And that's another terrifying thing, you know, when you, when you share a piece of your soul, criticism hurts even more than if you're just creating a persona, right?

Like when people would attack Mitch Jones, I didn't really give a shit. You know, to me, Mitch Jones was just a fucking 19-year-old version of myself that I just brought out every day. But when you really dig deep and share the deepest parts of your soul and then people are like shitting on that, that is painful. But it's something that I'm used to and I'm equipped for, you know? So, yeah.

Awesome, man. So do you want to give us a couple details about So are you going to be streaming on Twitch or what? Like where can we find you? Where can we find your album? Yeah, well, on Spotify, it's coming out on the 23rd. And then on the 23rd, like on my birthday, I'm doing like a birthday celebration. And like, so at 3 p.m. on my main Twitch channel, I'll just be doing like, I'll be doing like a show, you know.

It's like I'm showing a music video that Canstera made, you know, can stare at. He made like, have you never heard like, It's your boy, Asman Gold? your boy Asman Gold. Never heard that. Okay, you're unplugged from the memes, but yeah, he makes all the Twitch like videos, and I made the song, and he made the video, and it's a beautiful, heartfelt video, and it's, like, the song is called Time Machine, and it kind of just talks about a lot of the stuff that, you know, not as deep as we talked about it today, but it just talks about the things that have been, like, weighing heavy on my conscience, you know?

And that's, like, the lead of the, of the album, and then the rest of it is just a story of, like, you know, meeting a girl and then having good times, and then back to anxiety and, you know, living with anxiety for, like, one of the songs is called No In Between and the hook goes like, you know, it's like my anxiety gets the best of me. I'm up and down with no in between. Like, that's just like, that's just me, you know? Yeah. It's just like a whole, it's a whole story. You know what I'm saying? And yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to be, I'm going to be like performing all these songs on at 3 p.m. on my channel and I'm hoping that it goes well. Yeah, man. I'm yeah. I know there's been a lot of pain today, Mitch, but it makes me happy to see the person that you're becoming. Thank you. Thank you very

much. And it's 3 p.m. CT, by the way, so central time. Cool. You should check it out. It would be cool to have you just be like, yo, like, that doesn't mean a lot to me. Sure. I'll do my best. I think I may even, depending on when you start, we may try to raid you. Yeah. I'm doing like a 24-hour countdown thingy, right? So it's like it starts on the 22nd at 3 p.m. CT and then the show will start when the 24-hour timer ends on Friday at 3 p.m. CT. So if you're not busy then, it'd be dope. Just be like, yo, what up, Dr. Kay, you know?

Yeah, absolutely, man. I'll do my best to make it. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I feel like you've done a lot of good for the community. you know um yeah i just i don't know your support would mean a lot to me just because i feel like a lot of the things i'm singing about are just like my mental struggles and yeah it's like i feel like you've helped me with my mental struggles so yeah yeah i i'd love to hear it i know that actually um

my wife likes your music oh yeah that's so i i i you know it was kind of weird i you know i i I know we've communicated a little bit prior to the stream, but I actually haven't listened to it. I found emotionally for some reason it was hard for me, and I'm beginning to think maybe that was karmic in some way. Oh, it is loaded emotionally, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I just, I couldn't bring myself to listen to it for some reason. But I think maybe that was the universe's way of telling me to, you know, wait until it was time. and it seems like it's time in a couple of days.

Yeah, no, it would mean to what to me if, you know, you were there. So thank you. Sure. Okay. Well, I think we sort of stumbled on the end. Yeah, we definitely did. I mean, like my brain is spinning right now, man. Yeah.

Yeah. Mitch, take care of yourself. Take it easy, okay? Okay, thank you. We'll try to catch you on Friday, bro. Hey, thank you very much. I appreciate the combo. Yeah.

Thank you, man. Bye. later. All right, chat. Sometimes life ain't easy, huh?