HealthyGamerGG - Mitch Jones Pt. 2, David vs Mitch

Episode Date: February 29, 2020

Stream Schedule: https://www.twitch.tv/healthygamer_gg on Twitch. Youtube: https://youtu.be/pCJ6VdLqxK0 for VoD Archive. Support us at https://ko-fi.com/healthygamer if you enjoy our content and would continue helping making it accessible to everyone! Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Um, okay. So Mitch, can you, um, any, any, any, any, any, any questions, concerns about today, like any thoughts? Should we just die right in? Oh, no, man, I'm, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. You know, like, I've, I got no concerns, man. Okay. So can you, um, can you, first of all, thanks for coming on again. I was really excited. Thank you for having me again. Yeah, I was really excited to actually talk to you. I think, I think the last time we spoke really, uh, helped me in a lot of ways, actually. It made me see things differently, and I feel like it helped other people see a side of me. I don't quite normally show. That makes sense. Yeah. So can you help

me understand what you saw differently after our last session? Yeah. I definitely took into consideration what you said about the thinking black and white. So I've been trying to work on that and not like look at as things as just like set in stone like I used to look at them. So I'm trying to have more of an open mind with that. Good. And I've definitely been taking, like, steps. Sometimes when I'm, you know, just feeling overwhelmed or whatever. I'm just like, all right, I'm just going to think in the moment, just like, chill, whatever.

And I've been thinking, like, a lot about different things, I guess. It's hard to explain. It's like my, my, like, true calling for, like, who I want to be is kind of, like, surfacing, if that makes sense. Yeah, that sounds awesome. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, honestly. I definitely think like I'm like really in to like health stuff right and I've been thinking maybe I could like transition into like doing that somewhat and maybe monetizing it somehow I don't know how but like sure I don't know just like doing something different and like having other hobbies that aren't just like you know waking up and you know streaming or whatever I've done for the last like 10 years you know

kind of living a little differently doing some new things maybe being some new normal people that aren't involved in Twitch and like. like finding out, maybe finding some successful, healthy relationships outside of this industry, if that makes sense. Yeah. So it sounds like you're considering things that you kind of hadn't considered as seriously before. Yes, definitely. And I've always kind of considered these things. I just never really was like acting on them.

And now I think that I will do that because. Yeah. Yeah. And so Mitch, what do you think, so you felt. Do you feel happy? That's a hard question to answer. Happy, in which, I mean, I don't feel happy like I would do when I was 18. I gave no fucks about anything, you know.

I don't feel that way anymore. But I definitely feel as though I want to keep going to see where I can get in this game that we call life, right? Like if I can get myself to a place of peace of mind or whatever it is. of people who are searching for. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the answer is no, which I think is a good answer and it's very appropriate. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I wouldn't say that I'm blissfully happy now. Yeah. And so, you know, it's interesting. I don't really have a good recollection of a lot of what we talked about. There were a couple of things that really kind of stuck in my mind. Help me understand, you know, what do you think? So you've been, so Twitch and the internet have sort of described. you is like super super depressed and and kind of feeling it's it's super hard to explain i guess how

the internet views me and how like reality is you know what i mean yeah so let's talk about that okay sure where would you like to begin with that so so how do you think you're viewed by the internet um i think the internet views me off of just like past experiences i've had and like past things have happened because i've been very open with my community and the whole internet my entire career right like i've shared every relationship i've had every girlfriend all of it's in public you know what i mean so there's like there's been this like fine line of like weird atmosphere about my relationships right because when everything's public it's very hard to have like normal lives sure yeah so i feel like people view me almost like always for my worst

moments and it's like people don't it's like strange like it feels like as a public person You know, if you ever have like a bad moment, that's going to be remembered 10 times more than any good moment that you have, you know? Yeah. So I truly think that people have this bad taste in their mouth from when like, like, I've been through some shit and I lost my mind or whatever, like years ago. And I think people don't really let that shit go, you know, and they're just kind of hang on to that. And it makes me also like not be able to let it go as easy as I could because it's just reminded it a lot. You know what I mean? Sure, sure.

But yeah, I say the internet definitely views me as like depressed or like maybe manic, you know, definitely very messy, not consistent, very uncoordinated, those kind of things. Okay. And tell me about who, I mean, who do you feel you are? I feel as though I honestly have trouble pinpointing who I am because I'm always kind of flip-flopping like what I'm doing, you know? Like I'm very inconsistent. I'm very like impulsive and I just kind of like be like, oh, I want to do this. I go hard for it for a while and then I stop.

And then so who I am is kind of almost based off of who I'm around and like what I'm working toward. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that that's. So that's not that's not really the real you. Right?

Yeah. No. No, it's not. And I think what you're noticing is that like until we understand who we are, like it's almost like nature abhors a vacuum and so if you don't know who you are you're going to fill yourself up with the things around you

and the people around you and the goals like you become the goal because like you you don't know who you kind of are on the inside. Oh yeah for sure and I think with Twitch I get so carried away man with like the goal right like I get so carried away to the point where I just put everything about my well-being on hold and everything I do is for the sake of entertainment,

and I'm not even living for myself. I've done it for years, you know? Yeah. I'm not saying I'm doing that right now because I'm kind of like half and half right now, but I've had moments of my life where I'm just like, fuck it. I'm all in with this, you know, like this is everything I have. It's all, you know, like, it's just easy to get into that thought process where like, oh, like I'm, you know, a mid-20s dumbass who dropped out of college.

Like, how else am I going to make this kind of money unless I go all in with this? Or how else am I going to find this success again in my life? I probably won't, right? So it feels like I almost feel justified and just like going all in it. That makes sense. I think you're very justified in it. So I'd like to dig into that for you because I think that that's not healthy. But I think it makes perfect sense because I think you know, you have to go all in to compensate for everything else.

Right. So your only chance of success is if you go all in. And then I think I think when you go all in, you also become more of Mitch Jones and less of David. Yes, that's 100% true. And I have a very hard time distinguishing the two of those people, right? Yeah. Yeah.

So tell me about Mitch Jones and tell me about David. How are they different? Well, I'm a very sensitive person. I mean, who, like, deep down to my core, I'm very empathetic and sensitive. And people don't really know that or see that because I just wall that shit off. Yep. But I really have always been that way. I don't know why.

I've always been that way. Just like super sensitive and super like I can like almost like I'm like so socially in tune with things that like it's so weird. Like it's just very strange. I have this like social gift almost but I'm very bad at everything else. Like I'm it's really weird. It's so it's so I'm just so weird. I'm weird. I'm really weird.

Yeah. Yeah. I think when you say you're weird, I think that's a function of you not really understanding who you are. it could be it could be i just know that i'm bad at almost everything except understanding emotions like i have this like way of understanding people and just like getting them without even like knowing they don't have to tell me shit i just know you know and it's like it's really weird how uh but yeah i don't show that i don't show that ever like i don't show my sensitive side or i try not to i have before right like there's been times in the past where i've gotten very emotional on stream and i like it's always ends poorly you know

people are just like you know like it's very weird you know you either get like a reaction of like oh man or like you just get a reaction of like fuck you they just keep you know this ad fuel the fire or whatever okay but yeah showing emotion on twitch is almost always bad from what i've noticed what do you why do why do we wall off things Mitch am i calling you Mitch or david by the way i mean whatever you want to call me i've gone by Mitch my whole life but whatever you want to call me is fine yeah so um um why do we wall things off Mitch. To who?

to like Twitch or to everyone? Just in general. Why do we put up goals? It's just easier. Like I don't think that David would be a good streamer. You know? You know, make sense? Yeah.

Like I would be way too emotional. I would always look at things like in this weird. I would probably just sit there and talk about keto all day. You know what I mean? Like I would literally just be like, oh, I'm working on this. I'm working on that. Like no one gives a shit. Like they want to see content.

They want to see this like thing, this character, this person, whatever. Like they just want, that's what that's what Twitch is. It's an entertainment platform. You know what I mean? I'd say 99% of the streamers on this website are personified in some way, you know? Absolutely. So yeah. So it's like to just like to distinguish that from reality is like annoying.

And it's also very frustrating when I get judged indefinitely on Reddit and everywhere else. based off of like almost like a character's yeah it's like I'm doing it for entertainment but it's like people assume that that's just like how I am so like I'll meet people in real life and they're like oh you're not actually an asshole and I'm like what like what is that supposed to mean you know what I mean like yeah what does that mean like I don't understand what that means

but yeah like that happens to me a lot actually and I'm just it's just confusing so yeah what's confusing about that that that people misjudge me because even on stream I don't even think I come off as that much of a dingus. I just think I have like a very bad,

like reputation, I guess. Okay. Not even bad. It's like controversial. Like whatever you want to say. Like something that's just like a negative spin on things. Yeah. So what happens sometimes.

So can I just kind of share with you what I'm hearing? Try to tie a couple of things. So like I think, you know, this kind of goes back to first of all, you're thinking a little bit more about like fitness because it is such a big part of you or health. It's a part of the real you, but it's not a part of the persona that you show the rest of the world. Oh, if it was me, I would love to be a monk, dude.

I would love to just, like, meditate, find my true piece of mind and just like somehow just live the simplest life ever on like a farm. Like, I swear, I would love that. Maybe I get bored of it, but for now that sounds like really good. Why do you think that, why do you think that you can't live a simple life in the circumstances that you're in now? Because there's, how would I do that? I live like in a streamer house.

I live in a cesspool of like circles of different, I mean, maybe. I just don't see how. What do you think a monk does? They have very peaceful eyes, right? What makes them peaceful? I don't know. I think it's, they don't do like, they don't partake in like stressful things that would like stress them out in their mind and body or whatever, right? So, you know, that's kind of interesting.

I mean, I think in a sense, that's absolutely correct. So monks generally practice in isolation to protect themselves of the influences, from the influences of the outside world. That sounds great. And I also think that most of the work that monks do has nothing to do with the outside world. It's about the internal world. Yes, they're inside their mind and body, right? Absolutely.

So I think that while it's hard to be, become a monk in the outside world, I absolutely think that you can be a monk in the outside world. So I'm going to share with you one of the goals that one of my teachers taught me, which is to be in the world, but not of it. What does that mean to you? It means you are just existing in this world. This world is not your existence, something like that, right? Absolutely. What do you think about that?

I think that's a very true statement. And I think people get carried away in their own egos and ideologies all the time, when in reality, they should just look at it like, you know, like exactly the way you're saying. Like, I feel like when you look at things, I don't know, I don't really want to get too deep. I don't know. I think you understand what I'm saying, right? I do understand what you're saying. What's your reluctance to get too deep into it?

I don't know. I'm just, I'm not very good at articulating words that sound correct. So I'd just rather not say big words or get into like, I don't like. ideals of like inner mind and all this stuff, you know? Yeah, so what's wrong with, what's wrong with you? If you're not good at something, what's wrong with doing it? Well, I'd say I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, right? So when I do it on stream and I just get backlash for it, so I just would rather not,

does that make sense? Yeah, so, but do you think you're getting backlash now? I'm not even reading chat, but I just would rather not go into like, like deep. Like, I just know I've done this before where, like, I'll say some, like, five heads stuff or, like, things that I believe are true. And it's like, no one will ever take me serious. So there's almost no point of me talking about those things.

Yeah. Can I think for a second? Sure. So, Mitch, I think you don't let yourself be you. That could be. I don't think you let yourself be you at all. Because I think you're afraid that if people see you, they're not going to like it. And somewhere along the way, you started to need people's approval.

Oh, that's 100%. When I had people's approval, it made me, like, this God mode streamer. Like, I remember, like, back in, like, 2015, 16, like, I had the most loving, crazy loyal community. And, like, everyone, if anything ever was bad said about me, it was immediately downvoted. And I had a crazy cool fan base. And that shit, like, made me, like, fired up to, like, get them, like, the good content, you know? Like, and then one day that kind of all changed and it's like flipped on its head and like I got a shitload of hate and I didn't even know how to deal with that. So I just like got super depressed and I had this like, it just like changed everything. But the approval was like addicting man. Like I'm not going to lie. Like when you're getting like, go ahead. Go ahead. Go. Go for it. No, no, I'm saying when you're getting that like positive reinforcement for everything you do, it makes doing your job so easy, you know? Yeah. So I think I think, I think, I think. I think. getting all that positive reinforcement in a weird way was one of the worst things that happened to you.

Oh, 100%. Yeah. I was literally the most spoiled streamer for so long. Like I could ditch for like months and come back and still maintain like 8,000 viewers and like this was like five years ago. You know what I mean? And it was nuts. Like I could literally go on hiatuses and just come back and there was just no one back then that like was as good as like entertaining or whatever at the time. I mean people way more entertaining than me now. But I think back then I had a good. I had a good. good niche on like this like whatever I was doing I was doing it I was doing it right you know what I mean yeah and it was so nice to have that positive reinforcement for so long so I think it's nice to have positive it's nice for anyone to have positive reinforcement but I think that you it wasn't

just positive reinforcement for you I think it was oxygen and water and lifeblood what the the reinforcement was that yeah oh 100% yeah no I fed off that so hard yeah and and so then question is why were you hungry where you needed to feed off of that? I don't know. It's almost like I built my identity around it at that point, right? So I absolutely. So I think your your identity started to build around that. That's when Mitch Jones was born. Oh yeah. That is that is exactly when Mitch Jones was born. Yeah. And then you started to become an icon. And I think the more that you became an icon and the more that you became the stage presence, the more you lost to yourself. Because you've You've shared with us that you don't want to show people parts of David because they're looking for Mitch Jones.

And if you show up as David, you're going to get negative reinforcement. And somewhere along the way, you became dependent upon both the positive reinforcement and the negative reinforcement. And you sort of, your life became tied to Twitch's like impression of you. Your worth became tied to Twitch's impression of you. And even though the positive reinforcement sounds good, I think both of these are dangerous situations because who you are becomes determined by how you you're viewed. That's so, that's exactly how I feel, man.

It's like, I just wish you could have that moment in the sun like forever. No, that's bad. That's so great. Those moments were so good though, man. No, that's not. I was riding this high for like years. Mitch, that is not where I'm trying to lead you. Okay.

I know. This has to be understood. Like, why do I think that that's bad? Because it's not, there's no realistic longevity with that. And plus, it's building, it's building yourself up on a false narrative anyways, right? Exactly. Yeah. No, I understand all of this.

It was a fucking damn good time, though, man. Yeah, I'm sure. So I'm sure you'll get there again, too. It was a good time. Yeah. Thanks for the good time, boys. That was good. Yeah.

That's good. Yeah. And I, and this is really important. So I want you to. like really think about this Mitch where I think that and this is true for everyone who's watching too. You know, I think that we sometimes want just the highs from life, but that's not how life works. Peace from life doesn't like so you think when you envision just having like your moment in the sunshine forever, right? That's not actually how a monk lives. A monk doesn't live with a moment of sunshine forever.

They attain inner peace, but how do they do it? through honestly being all right with boredom and being all right with mediocrity and all those things like just being all right with whatever it is is and they're okay with the exactly so if you crave your moment in the sun that's the problem it's the craving for you two of me though I swear there's like the one there's like the side of me that doesn't crave that and I can just throw it all away and I've done it before and then there's a side of me that always comes back so it's like I'm like almost internally like struggling. Yep.

Like what I desire. So now we have to think about where was that second Mitch born? The second Mitch. Or Mitch Jones, let's say. Right. Okay. Yeah. So think about this.

Who needs who needs like so like I mean I kind of have I'm trying to lead you to this because I have a hypothesis about this. Okay. So here's, let me just be more. transparent instead of like, you know, trying to lawyer my way to it. So, you know, I, I think that there's something, generally speaking, people crave moments in the sun when there's something about themselves or their life that is just like really, really hard to accept or deal with. So you need Twitch to like make you feel good because there's something within you that doesn't make you want to feel, that doesn't make you feel good. And while David overall feels good, like I think you like to

connect with him, but there's something about David that you want to run away from by becoming Mitch Jones. And if you want true peace, the way to get rid of the longing for permanent sunshine, like you crave the highs of the good years of Twitch once again. The way to get rid of that craving is to be satisfied with who you are. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree with that. And I've, I've done work to do that, but doing that at the same time as Twitch seems is almost impossible. I think that that's really hard. Right?

It's like super hard. Like imagine trying to like be this thing and then having to like, it's like turn it off and on and always, it's just like exhausting. Yeah, it sounds really hard. I don't know if it's actually possible. But so I think that's why I've always taken long breaks from Twitch. And I'm just like, okay, I got to find out who I am again. And I find myself again and I lose myself again.

And I find myself again. And it's like a cycle. So when we think about David's life, what is it? that that bothers you the most about David's life? 100% not being able to connect to anyone, anyone. That's the most thing. Like, I can't connect with any people. I don't trust anyone in my, like,

there's just no way I can like make meaningful relationships. Because I truly think that the only reason people come into my life anyway is for Mitch Jones, not for David. Does that make sense? Yep. So therefore, it's super hard for me to make meaningful relationships.

relationships, like super hard, right? And that sucks. And I feel like it's been almost every girl I've dated, almost every person I've interacted with. Like, it's just, it's a really sad, lonely existence when you know that you're just a piece of meat, you know? Like, you're not anything else but a piece of meat. You weren't always lonely. You're right. I had real friends and a bunch of cool people that I grew up with until those things faded. And then, uh, you know, I kind of had to dive into this world that is like almost like Hollywood 2.0. Yep. So I think I think what you've got to manage and I'm still sort of beating around the bush.

You know, so you've kind of mentioned to me before that there's someone, there have been people in your life or one person in particular who's really like known you and accepted you. Yes. Yes. There's been a few. Like I still have like one really close friend back home, but we don't keep. been touched that much, but he definitely understands me and, like, has connected to me on that level as well. But it's like that and my, how old you were, how old were you, how old were you

when Mitch Jones was born? Uh, I'd say 21. Okay. How old were you when your mom got sick? Like 18, 19. Yeah, it depends on what you, like, I was always kind of like a laughing, like, like Mitch Jones isn't like a completely personified, made up thing. Like, it's like, that's how I can get into that place, like just being myself, you know? But it's like, when you have to force yourself to that place, then it's almost like, what is this, you know? Like this makes perfect sense. So I think that it is a piece of my personality. It's just like, absolutely. You have to force it out. David was a clown. Yeah, 100%. I was always a clown. David's always been a crowd. I think that's a part of who you are. I think that's a part of your authentic self. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And my general hypothesis,

Mitch, just so I'll kind of lay it out is I think that, You know, I think a lot of this comes down to your mom. I think a lot of it does as well. And there's nothing I can do about that, though, you know, that's already done. I guess I can maybe like... What kind of thinking is that? I don't know. I don't know what I can do.

Yeah. So I can't change what happened, you know? You can't change what happened. But yeah, a lot of it does come down to that. How so? Because I just truly think, like, she was like the rock in my life. that just kept everything okay and then I lost that and I had to like and I tried to like what are you doing right now I'm just randomly shifting tabs because I have ADHD I'm just being

ADHD I don't think so you haven't been doing that very much I I don't know why yeah I just feel like fidgeting I don't know why absolutely I completely agree what's changed in the last 60 seconds I don't know I guess we started talking about something that's bothering me Absolutely. Right. So what does your mind do when we talk about something that bothers you? It wanders. And you're right. It's wandering. It's like trying to avoid that. It doesn't like it. Absolutely. And what's the perfect way to avoid it? Fidgeting around. And so I think Mitch Jones is the ultimate fidget. Oh, so you think if I become Mitch, I don't have to, none of these things surface and I can just, I can just carry on. Yeah, I think that, yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah. Yes, definitely. Because like when I'm streaming, I don't think about this shit.

I'm just like in the mode. I'm in the mode, you know? Absolutely, right? I'm in like the zone. So here's the thing about giving it your all. When you become Mitch Jones, you give it your all, right? It requires 100% of you. Yeah.

And you can't give it your all without forgetting about things. You can't hold on to your mom even 1%. You can't be Mitch Jones if you're thinking about her. Like, you know that. You can't be the sort of. And I have no doubt that like the clown within you is like a genuine part of who you are. And I think that that even Mitch Jones is like actually like a really authentic. There's like there's an authentic.

There's a really pure piece of you in there. There's the guy that like got into your mom's car without wearing any clothing. Like that's like that was you. That was the real you. Right. Yeah. That's really who you are. And you show that part to the internet.

And that's why they love you. Because you're not putting on an act. I think you're just giving them a slice. Yeah, yeah, no, that's true. I think I got popular in the first place just because I was a dumb ass that was like a good mage and wow, you know? Yeah, I wasn't like anything.

I wasn't, I don't know. Like, I wasn't really trying. It just kind of happened. And then once it happened, I started trying because like it got more competitive and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I think all that stuff is cool.

I think, you know, you've had a like a roller coaster of a streaming career. Oh. Oh, 100%. I've had some crazy highs and some crazy lows. Like, it's really weird. And I'm, if it's okay with you, Mitch, I'm going to come back to your mom. Yeah, no problem.

Because I think you've got to be, like, I don't think you'll ever be, whether you're a monk living in a farm or you're here, I don't think you're going to find peace until you, like, sort of like, process that and deal with that. And you kind of look at your life and you say there's nothing I can do about it. But in a sense that's true. Like you can't cure her of what she has. But I think that there's a lot of work there to be done. And how do you suggest that I heal that pain? I think we start by facing it, right? We start by not fidgeting.

We start by not opening tabs and sitting with it and understanding what it is. I think I've been facing it for so long, though. Like, I mean, every once in a while, I'll just, like, face it. Like, it just happens no matter what. Yeah. Yeah, and what happens when you face it? I get super emotional and then I just try to get back to normal and then I carry on. Yeah, so I think the mistake you're making is in trying to get back to normal.

So I shouldn't try to get back to normal. No, I mean, I think that's what monks do, right? So the monks don't try to get anywhere. They just let it all happen. Yeah, right? To accept what is. I think what you're missing is actually grief. So I think the process of grief is like if I had to put like, you know, if I had to use a word to describe what you need to do, it's grieving.

Because grieving is how we, you know, you can't like you can't change anything in grief. Does that make sense? And it's still really, really important to do. Like there are bad things that happen and we can't bring people back from the dead. And I don't know if you realize this, but like I think in your mind like their like your mom is like, not really like she's gone yeah she's definitely she's not gone per se it's just like she's not the person that she was or it's very difficult to watch someone deteriorate you know it's just like it's almost the worst thing ever when you like see someone's personality like be stripped from them

and their speech be stripped their movement be stripped it's it's it's honestly the most heartbreaking thing I've ever had to see in my life. And like when I witness, when I, every time I fly home, I truly just have a hard time functioning because of how like distraught and like upset and sad I feel. And I hate those feelings. I hate them. I hate them so much. They make me unfunctional. And then if I come on like, let's say I want to stream that day, I'll come on Twitch and everyone knows and they can see the weakness in me.

They, they see it, you know. And like Twitch is, they're very good at seeing weakness, right? And like, I get, I get picked, I get torn apart. And quite frankly, I'm, I'm, like, terrified of, like, crying or, like, those type of, like, deep emotions on stream, I get very much so shit on four, you know? Like, I've done it on stream before. And, like, I've, it's just people call me victim Jones or say I'm a pussy or whatever. It's like, Mitch, so I'm going to do something that if this feels insensitive or mean to you, please let me. know, but you keep on moving back to Twitch and away from your mom. So I'm going to keep you there.

So like you see that? Like you're coming to. So so I think. So I shouldn't think about Twitch ever. No, no, you can think about it. Nope. No, you can think about whatever you want to. So it's going to be my job to keep us on track and I'm asking for your permission to do so. Oh, I give you permission to. Okay. So that you let your mind do what it wants to. That's actually okay. So like that that's the reason you're talking to me is. So it's bad that I keep going back to that. That's like not helping my healing. Yes, and it's okay, right? Because that's just, that's exactly what I'm saying.

So like you see how your mind is fidgeting. So like you start opening tabs and then we kind of go back. Because like in a weird way, your mind is comfortable with talking about the pain of Twitch. That's a roller coaster that your mind is actually completely fine with, even though it's painful. You can talk about that. You can access that. What's really hard for you to sit with is your mom. And by the way, I think the reason that, you know, you kind of say, but I've dealt with it before I faced it.

before. And, you know, I'm like, it's like I'm not healed yet. And I think absolutely that's true. And I don't think that you've not faced it properly. I think like if we really think about this, I think you've done a good job of facing it. But I think your situation is actually like really, really heartbreaking because it's going on. Right. So like when I'm when my dad passed away eight years ago, he was gone like all at once. And then I could. grieve him and move on with my life. And in a bizarre way compared to your situation, I'm lucky. Because what I'm hearing from you is like every time you see her, like another part of

her like kind of withers away. And she's still your mom and you still love her and you can see the parts that are there. But like there's you can't, it's not like it's not talking about grieving once. It's like grieving like again and again and again like every single time. and so I don't hold you, like I don't blame you at all for not being able to move past it because this is fucking, like it's hard,

man, it's like watching someone, I mean, she had brain cancer, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

so I've seen this with people who have, like, cancer. Yeah. It's like, it's just has so much, man, like two strokes,

two brain surgeries. Just like, ugh, I don't, I, I, I'm having, I,

I'm having trouble keeping it cool. That's fine. Don't keep it cool. This is why I just hate talking about this. I hate it. These feelings are so painful, man. Yeah. And I just feels so fucking unfair.

I just don't understand. Yeah. Because it is unfair, dude. And there isn't, there isn't, and there isn't understanding. Yeah. And I get really sad. Like, I see,

I see all these, like, people that I live with and everyone there. have such, like, such, like, loving parents and, like, families. And I just feel so fucking lonely, man. Like, I feel so fucking lost. Like, I don't even, all I have is, like, this is why, like, put all my chips. And, like, all I have is this thing that I've built, because I don't have anything to go back to, you know? Like, I just, my mom is not the same. She never will be.

My brother is at this point in, like, some assisted living, because I don't even know why the hell he's there, but he is. And he's not doing well. And then my dad is just focused on his work. And I don't know. I just feel like I'm super alone. I don't have the traditional sense of love and family and any of that shit is just doesn't feel like. I feel alone in this world. I feel very alone.

And I don't trust anyone and it sucks. Yeah. So Mitch, let me explain something to you. Okay. So I say this with love. You feel alone in this world because you are alone in this world. I don't want to be alone, man. I don't want you to be alone either.

but I think it starts with like understanding where you are right and I and I think that unfortunately you have been dealt one of the shittiest hands that life has to offer and that's like I don't know how else like I'm not trying to like I feel like there's a part of me that thinks that I'm beating up on you but I mean that's just the truth right because you had one person in your life and and she's like withering away and you're watching it happen in front of you what you're dealing with is not like depression. I mean, sure, there may be depression there. But I think, like, this is what we call, like, complex trauma. Right. So in psychiatry, like, you know, I'm not supposed to diagnose things over the internet, but like there's this like kind of emerging, like,

there's a difference between one event. Like, so simple trauma is like if you get, you know, like, let's say you get sexually assaulted or something like that. Like, that's pretty bad. But then complex trauma is when you have like a loved one who like, continually abuses you over the course of years. And it's a completely different animal. It's not just straight up PTSD. It's like deeper.

And what I see in you is someone who hasn't been like, life hasn't like, you know, sucker punched you once. It's just like you take a beating every time you kind of think about your life and your loved ones and stuff like that. And then there's this other weird thing that's happened is like in order to protect yourself from that, Mitch Jones rises from the ashes. right which allows you to access just that part of you which is like beautiful and funny and clowny and amazing and it's like it's your moment in the sunshine but that sunshine is born out of like you stuffing other shit into the shadows like Mitch Jones is in the spotlight and in order for Mitch Jones to be in the spotlight he's got to push David out of it and then David is alone yeah fuck David absolutely that's what you've been doing right?

Yeah. Because you don't like being David because it's hard to be David and I get that man. I really do. In a sense, I actually don't. I have no idea because, you know, I mean, I've lost a parent, but, you know, I still have people in my life who love me and I'm really, really grateful for that. And I think in your case, like the tricky thing about Mitch Jones is then, no opening tabs, stay with me. The tricky thing about Mitch Jones is then you become Mitch Jones. Mitch Jones. And then what's frustrating to you is that when people meet you on the street, you want them to see David. Right? When you meet people in real life, I want to be myself. Yeah, I don't want to have to be this like clowny thing that's like entertaining people all the time, you know?

And so in a bizarre way, it reinforces your loneliness because those are the moments where David can be seen. Those are the moments where like other people can like, you know, get to know you and you can start to form a real human connection. But instead all they see is Mitch Jones. Yeah, that's true. But I honestly feel like Mitch Jones is the thing that brings me any type of, it's brought me everything I have. Like, you know what I mean? Like, if I was just me, if I was just, if I just let myself be like David, the sad cunt walking around, I would just be another depressed boomer who's broken, lonely or whatever.

Absolutely, right? And that's what makes this really hard. So understand this, Mitch. You have not gotten to this place because you're dumb. You've gotten to this place because your strategy works really well. Mitch Jones is your savior. And he's what's holding you back, right? Because he's what prevents you from healing.

I'm living in a tug of war constantly. Absolutely. How does that feel? It feels bad, man. It feels bad. Because I can't just focus on one. I have to do both. Yeah, so the problem here is that, like, it's not David and Mitch under the spotlight.

It's like they take turns. And there are times where you turn off Mitch Jones, you go home, and then you become David again. And you don't like David. So you start to, like, move away from him. So I think that- It's not that I just like David. It's more of just like having to sit in that mental for a long period of time drags me into it so deep that I can't get out.

Like, I'll just start just like, I'll start getting very, like, antisocial and just doing like, you know, whatever, like just not productive things, you know, so it's almost like it's better to just not let that person come out because it's almost always negative. Exactly. So now I want, now let's understand that, right? So how can you heal if you never let let that person out? Which kind of makes sense because if you let that person out, he takes over leads to like all kinds of bad shit happening on stream. You become less successful. So I think what I would like to really help you do, Mitch, is teach you how to let David out, how to let those negative feelings out without spiraling out of control. I would like you to be able to be yourself and feel

those negative feelings. And then also to like, you know, it's kind of, we're going to open the closet door. We're going to take out something that's disorganized. We're going to organize a little bit and then put it back in the closet. Because I don't think that you're going to, I mean, this is not, the strategy that you have is like materialistically successful but I don't think it's going to lead you to peace oh it's not and and you've got to I mean you can't you can't live like this you know you've got to you've got to learn how to grieve and and process those feelings and then also like the more that you do that the less you have to be Mitch Jones

and the more that you can be like the authentic clowny David who's like kind of like Mitch Jones. And then my hope, my real hope for you is that as you become less of this like caricature of yourself, that you can start to form like really authentic connections with people. And then my real hope for you is that like at the end of all of this, you, it's not about success. It's about you not being alone anymore. That's really more than anything else in the world. I want you to not feel alone. I have a very, I have a question for you. Yeah.

Do you think it's best for me to just find like my piece of mind to be able to make connections? and that's more important than like the success of my Twitch channel. I'm asking you because like they almost don't go hand in hand. Like if I'm working on myself and doing my own thing, like that person could be a bad, boring streamer, you know? So I don't accept your premise because I think that the way that, so previously when David used to come on Twitch, it led to a bad stream. I don't accept that that has to be true going forward.

Yes, I agree. I think the maturing could be a good arc for my thing. And also, I think you should be your clowny fucking self. Like, I think you should be what Twitch loves you for because I think that's a real part of you. Yeah, for sure. And I, and my, so overwhelmingly, I've worked with a lot of people, Mitch, and a lot of people are afraid because they, this is how, like, this is how life works where people come up with all these weird compensatory mechanisms. Like, like, you know, I'll just give you an example. So I was working with someone who's dad, the one time that their dad ever said something good about them is when they were a normal weight, they got set to Fat Camp, and they lost stuff and were at like the bottom end of like below that is like when they start to become anorexic.

And when they came back from Fat Camp, the one nice thing their dad ever said to them is you look good. rest of the time it was like emotional abuse and judgment you're fucking this up and you're doing that bad and things like that so one one time in her life where like she ever got positive feedback from her dad and so her desire to like meet her dad's expectations caused her to like study so hard and work so hard and take care of her appearance where she became incredibly incredibly successful entered the world of finance made like shit tons of money married someone who is equally ambitious and rich. And so her whole life is based off of like this track of success, which is rooted in, you know, not to oversimplify things, but essentially like a pattern. It's not that she was trying to make her dad happy. It's that in order to make her dad happy, she learned a certain way of functioning, which was giving it 100%, which was going all in, which is what you do too when you go on stream. And she's afraid that if she lets go of that initial wound that all of the ambition and hard work is going to go with it.

That's a great way of putting it. Yeah, that's spot on. That's exactly what I feel. Yeah, I feel as though if I were to actually get my shit together, quote, unquote, that could ruin me. Yep. Because a lot of what the appeal of my channel has been is honestly, it's a fucking tornado. You never know what you're going to get. It could be some craziness or whatever.

Like, it's just always something ridiculous, right? And like, that's good content. It is, you know? And it's just like, if it's just like normal David, like, you know, then, then what? Like, I don't, I don't have a college degree. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what I do. Yeah.

So I think it's a very reasonable fear. And I'm telling, I mean, the reason I shared that story with you is because I think, you know, it's a reasonable fear. The other interesting thing is you wouldn't fear that unless deep down, you understood that these two things are connected. Yeah. Does that make sense? It does, yeah. So what do you think happened? As I started working with this person and she started to feel more confident in herself,

what do you think happened? I'd say that her wound slowly healed and she stayed successful. Absolutely. In fact, she became more successful. Yeah, I don't doubt it. Because those ideals don't go away, especially when they've been there for that long. So healing her wounds can only just make her more powerful in the end. Yeah, but what is healing your wound's going to do, Mitch?

I mean, potentially the same thing. Absolutely. So that's what I've seen time and time again. Well, I would love to do that. And honestly, if I could become a different entity to where I don't have to, you know, exert myself so hard, is that make sense? Absolutely. That would be great.

Yeah, I would love that. I would love to be respected for not being like, yeah like I used to be respected for like for example for like being very good at World Warcraft and like that was nice like not just being like oh it's that guy who's controversial and whatever you know it's it's way better to be known for something being good at something than it's just be known to be known so make sense yeah absolutely so you're talking about kind of like fame versus notoriety right yeah it's like I want to be known for actually being good at something not for just being some fucking jackass clown who hits on girls and

cringes around, you know. Yeah, so let's be, I'm going to teach you kind of how to process your emotions in a second, but let's just talk about success of Twitch streaming for a second, okay? So here's the thing to understand. Her psychological wounds, when I'm talking about my patient, her psychological wounds and her psychological healing has nothing, I mean, in a sense, it has something to do with her, her success in her job, but like, being good at your job is about being fucking good at your job. Yeah, for sure.

So if you want to be a successful Twitch streamer, you need to do. the things that will make you a successful Twitch streamer. Don't think for a moment in the same way that all this deep, dark, hurt and stuff, that hasn't really made you a successful Twitch streamer. Like, you've sort of sniffed out and evolved into someone who's become a successful Twitch streamer. And in the same way, if you believe that healing this is going to magically make you more successful, that's not going to happen either. Oh, of course not. The work. It just makes you lighter to be able to work harder, right? Absolutely. So I think your life will improve, but being a successful Twitch streamer is about doing the things that make you a successful Twitch streamer.

And if that involves being... And I know that. I know that left and right. Good. Yeah. So the next thing is that, you know, I think they come to you because you're kind of this clowny person and stuff like that. And I think you should continue to channel that.

And also if they come to you because you're a little bit of a tornado, you should also do that because I think naturally you're a little bit of a tornado. Oh, 100%. Yeah. I love a little bit of spice in my life. Yeah. So then I'd say continue doing that. Like, right?

so you don't want to be, you don't want to be like wholesome. Like you don't want to be like wholesome because that's just not who you are. Right. Yeah, yeah. But you also don't want to be a fucking train wreck who disappears for months at a time and is like, you know, like I think it's fine to display. I've been there. Yeah. I've been there.

And there's something about, I think there's something about, you know, you being able to smile and make jokes. And also from time to time show that you're like you feel alone and stuff like that. I think that's actually why you became successful. Because I think that, like, you got to understand that Twitter chat is like broken, right? Like, we're all broken. We're all fucked, man. We're all broken. And so what we love to see is someone who can smile and enjoy their life and, like, still be successful and kind

of clown around. Because I was so good at hiding it back in the day, man. I swear. No, you weren't. No, you weren't. No, you weren't. You should watch my old bots. You would never know.

I was a broken cut. I disagree 100 percent, Mitch. I think all of them knew. No, they didn't know, man. No, they knew. And you put on such a good front that they thought they could do that too. They thought they could become Mitch.

But deep down, they fucking knew. Yeah, it's all a matter of time until David comes out of all of us, I guess. They knew. And the fact that you hit it so well is I think what gave them so much hope, right? Because they didn't see it. Yeah.

But they knew deep down, Mitch, think they knew. I swear to God, I just, when I watched this, but I even felt it, man. Like, the way I felt was, I'm just like, all right, like, I'm, I'm doing it. Like, we're out here. Like, I don't have any problems. Like, let's just positive, positive, positive. Like, I just radiated positivity for so long, man. So fucking toxic, dude. That is so toxic. Is it? Yes. Does this be a positive ball of fun that's bad? Yeah, because, I mean, that's you pushing David into the shadows, right? So I think it's fine to be a positive ball of fun, but I think you have to give yourself space to be negative.

Yeah, no, but I've been negative now for a long time. So like, you know, like it went from like polar ships. Like I'm talking like super positive. Everything was good to like depressed, awful, terrible. You know, like I'm talking like bad. Both of those are wrong, right? So this is something. So now Mitch, this is this is exactly like.

So last time we talked about black and white thinking. Why do you think I've been like pushing you with black and white thinking? Um, because it's pretty obvious. That's what I do. It's like always polar opposites. There's no middle ground. Exactly. And the monk is the one who walks the middle ground. I need to get to the monk middle, man. I need to get there. So this is how it starts. Okay. Okay. I want you to sit up straight. Okay. Sitting up. Oh. Okay. Sitting up. Okay. Sitting up straight. Do that for your good. treat your back with a little bit of kindness.

Oh, yeah. Okay, so you're leaning back because you've got like a gaming chair. Okay, this is what I want you to scoot your chair back in a little bit. Grab one of your pillows, and I want you to sit on one of your pillows. And I want you to sit, don't lean back into the chair. So I want you to sit straight up. Yeah. And I want your knees to be lower than your hips.

Are your knees lower than your hips? Yes. Okay. Grab another pillow so you're even more elevated. All right, we'll take this one. Okay. Wait, that's two. Hold on. I'll just get this big one. All right. Big pillow. Yeah, good.

Oh, go. How tall are you? Five, eleven. Okay. So chairs are not designed for, okay. So now, don't, don't lean back. So sit forward. Sit at the edge of your chair. Okay. Okay. Do you, do you, do you? you feel with the second pillow that you can sit up straighter? Yeah.

Okay. Now close your eyes. All right. So no leaning back like up, right? Yeah. So sit up. Okay. Closing my eyes.

Yeah. Okay. So now what we're going to do is we're going to talk a little bit about your mom. I'm going to just say some things about your mom and I want you to just notice what comes up. Okay. Oh, man. I get sad every time.

But all right. Good. So tell me what you feel. What is the sadness? I feel helpless. I feel angry. I feel grief, pain, sorrow, misery, all those things. It's all every time I think about that.

I'm glad you're able to feel all of that shit. Now, tell me what it feels like in your body. Anxiety. Okay. What does anxiety feel like? Where do you feel it in your body? Kind of like right here. Good.

You feel tight. Good. Yeah, it feels like tight. Okay. Eyes need to remain closed as best as you can, okay? So, and then do you feel, so what is, what does the misery feel like? Where do you feel the misery? Definitely in my like thoughts, my like negative thinking.

Do you feel like, do you feel like any kind of like sensation like in your head? Yeah, definitely my head, yeah. Like what does that feel like? I feel heavy. Like my head is just heavy. I can't, there's no point in like going on. Okay. Doom effect.

Yeah, so your body feels heavy, your head feels heavy, you feel tightness in your chest, anything in your throat or your stomach? I always have stomach stuff, but I, yeah, I have like acid reflux or whatever that is. Okay. So, yeah. I want you to focus back on the sensation of heaviness in your head or tightness in your chest. You feel those? Are they still there, or we've like start talking about acid reflux and they go away? No, they're still there.

Okay. So what I want you to do is I want you to do is I want you to. breathe in through your nose for three seconds, and then out for three. And now in for three and out for five. Good, out for five. You guys can do this at home too, okay? And then in for three and out for seven. And now in for five and out for seven. And now in for five and out for nine. I want you to continue breathing kind of in that pattern where I want you to take good, slow, inhalations, but especially slow exhalations. And now what I want you to do is as you breathe in, focus on the air coming into you, that

cool, sweet air. It's kind of energy in life. And it's kind of like going into the heaviness and that you can feel that expansion of tightness. Good. So you feel tightness. So breathe into it. What are you feeling?

Talk to me. Sadness. A lot of sadness. I want to like break down and I'm trying not to. Okay. So it's okay to break down. Okay. Okay.

But what I want you to do is as you feel that sadness, so hold the sadness with one hand. I really, I don't want to like do this on the stream. I feel like I'm just going to get ridiculed or something, you know. Okay. I definitely feel emotional, very emotional. Okay. So I want you to hold on to that emotion, Mitch. Stay with me, okay?

Okay. That's okay. This is what we're here for, okay? okay okay if it gets to be too much i can snap you out of it but i'd like to i'd like to be there with you okay i'm okay i'm okay i just don't want to get too overwhelmed to where i'm like rolling on the floor whatever that's okay that's okay we'll we'll keep you from getting there i think you're doing a good job though this is exactly what we want we need those feelings to come out okay i feel like tingling like all with my body like okay return to the breath mitch listen to my words return to

the breath. In for three, out for five. Out through the mouth is fine. In through the nose, out through the mouth. Good. Feel your chest expand. One more. Don't stop. Okay. Give me three more breaths and then you can cry. Two more. One more. You can do it. Stay with me. I don't understand why I can't keep my cool right now. I don't understand. No, no. It's not about keeping you're cool. I need to keep my cool. I just, I don't, I don't like this. I don't like this. Okay. So Mitch, if this is hard for you, that's okay. We can stop. It sounds like it's a little bit overwhelming, so we're going to stop, okay? Okay. Tell, tell, tell me. Can I pee? I did a pee. Go pee. I apologize. Seriously, I'm so sorry. For what?

I don't know. I just, I'm just, I just, I just, I just apologize. I feel as though. I can't control myself and it's embarrassing, you know? Sure. I can understand that it's embarrassing, but why do you need to control yourself? I don't know. So we apologize. Go ahead. No, no, it's cool.

I just, I don't want to come off as though like I'm in pain or a victim or any of that shit. I just got to, you know, like, it's bad. Like, I can't do that. What keeps you from doing that? It's just not good. Trust me. I've been here. And I just, I feel uncomfortable with, like,

I get ridiculed or like it's it just I it's just not good. Okay. Okay. It's bad. So Mitch, a couple of things to just think about, okay? So the first is that if you want to have a conversation off of stream, I think I'm open to that.

So you just let me know. So think about that, okay? Okay. You know, it's, it's totally fine. I just, I feel like I'm being opened up and that's good. It feels good.

It really feels like I'm like freeing bad negative energy. But at the same time, like I just, I've been very much so, like, shit on in the past for, like, doing so, you know, like, I've had, I've been to very negative experiences in sharing my sadness. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm with you. So I think that let's move.

Yeah. You good? You got the, wait, why are the dogs in here? What are you doing, buddy? Can you get this one? I'm sorry. You got a, no, I think. No, I think that's actually exactly what you need.

Yeah, therapy dogs. Yeah. All right, cool. I think they sensed something. Yeah, the dogs are just rolling around. I appreciate you more than you know, and this has nothing to do with you. Like, it's not, like, I feel as though this is very good. I just don't want to put myself in a situation where I'm going to be opened up to be, like, attacked, you know?

Yep. Yeah, so I think if that's been your experience, Let's respect the let's respect those boundaries. I think, Mitch, I'm going to help you pull out of this, okay? I don't know. Okay. You want to pull out of this? Whatever you want, whatever you think is correct.

I'm, I'm okay. I'm just like, you know, like, I just overwhelming a lot, a lot of things like hitting me at once. And it's, that's all, you know. So I'd like to explain to you intellectually what's going on within you right now. What do you think about that? I would like that, yeah. Yeah, okay. So this is going to have the added benefit of as we engage our intellectual mind, your feelings hopefully will calm down a little bit.

Okay. So Mitch, this shit is right beneath the surface. This is a high pressure situation. Does that make sense? Like, all we have to do is calm your mind a little bit. And, like, all we have to do is, like, like, you know, this is kind of like, you know, poking a hole in a dam. And then there's so much water that, like, a little bit comes out. Like all we're trying to do is we're poking a tiny, tiny hole.

And instead of just like one little trickle of water coming out, there's so much pressure back there that all of these feelings are coming out. Yeah. Right? All we have to do. So understand this. When we start to meditate, which by the way, you're gifted at. When we start to meditate, you're gifted at. You're good at it.

When we start to meditate, what happens is our mind becomes empty. Okay? Is our mind becomes empty, it becomes somewhat of a vacuum. and whatever pressure is built up within us starts to fill that vacuum of the mind. So there are some ways that I can trigger emotion in you by asking certain questions, right? So I can pointedly ask you about your mom, and that can trigger emotion. But even talking about your mom, the emotion is pretty manageable. Stay with me. Listen. Listen. You with me?

Yeah, yeah. Stay with the intellectual, okay? Yeah. I'm trying to, I'm trying hard. My emotions are just pouring, man. I'm trying to, I'm trying. Fine. Okay. Actually, so then let me ask you, do you think we should just sit with those emotions for a little bit? Or would you like me to try to kind of put a band-aid? I was enjoying you. Yeah, I was enjoying the band-aid. Okay, good. So let's continue with the band-aid. So I think this is just, there's just a pile of emotions that's down there. And it doesn't take a whole lot of emptiness to let those emotions out. So oftentimes people who meditate for like extended period, like, you know, once you get good at meditation, people have these kinds of like, emotional breakthroughs where like something deep that's buried within them like kind of comes out. And the deeper it's buried, the better you have to get at meditation, the more you have to empty your mind in order to let that out. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. In your case, either you're really, really good at meditating, which I do believe you're gifted in, or it's not buried very deep. Does that make sense? It does make sense, yes. So I, like the damn, you said like

Yeah. So, buddy, like, I just don't think, like, I'm going to just say this simply, you see how much emotion is in there. You see all of the stuff that's in there, the misery, the sadness, the anger, the aloneness, all that crap is in there. There is no way, like, what you long for is peace. There is no way you can attain peace while that is there. Yeah. The good news. So what happens if you cut yourself, Mitch? What happens to the wound? It heals over time. How does it know to do that? Well, I'd say white blood cells go to the area and get very present and start working their magic. Yeah. So the cool thing about the human body is that wounds heal over time. That's just how we work. It's fucking amazing.

All we have to do is let them, right? So in your case, you've done such a good job at building up walls around this stuff, where it's like you're not letting your mental white blood cells get to the wound and start the process of healing it whether you believe it or not like so you felt an overwhelming amount of emotion

and then you described as feeling good and light right so it's like it's kind of weird like so that's actually the healing it's like unfortunately healing doesn't look like what it looks like in wow yeah it doesn't which is just green numbers

and then your health bar goes up yeah just eating some manobis isn't you good. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. I wish it was, man. Yeah, me too, man. I feel like emotional healing is so difficult and tricky and hard to understand. Absolutely, man. Absolutely. It's so hard. And, and, and, and, and, but I, I, I think if you feel a little bit lighter, you know, you talked about feeling heavy in your head. How does your head feel now? A little better. I just know that I very much so suppressed, like that could have been a full blown, like, yeah. I felt so heavy, like, so many things wanted to express themselves, and I just don't, I don't want to feel those right now. So I know that, like, yeah.

Yeah, so this is what I hate about Twitch. So normally, what I like about doing this kind of work, so I do this kind of work with people in my office. And then what we tend to do is they can, because it's also private. And then what I'll do is I'll hug them. So generally speaking, as a psychiatrist, it's a bad idea to touch your patients, because people say you shouldn't touch your patience. Some time ago I couldn't help myself and I just started hugging people.

Like I hug my patience. Because I feel like that's really what, like what you really need in that moment and this is what I hate about Twitch. I was talking about this at the beginning of the stream that Twitch feels fundamentally unsatisfying to me because what you need in that moment is to be held. Yeah.

And the dog sensed it. The dogs. They really did. And what you really need in those moments is to let that out and to be held and to not be alone, which, like, I know that Twitch chat is with us and you're not truly alone. But, like, physically and, like, oxytocin levels and stuff like that, like, you just need to be not alone. Yeah. Is it weird that, like, Twitch to me feels like my, my only family? It feels like my only thing that, like, I can truly just talk to and just, like, vent and whatever. No, I don't think it, I used to think it was weird until I actually started looking at it for what it was instead of judge.

it from like boomer perceptions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, you know, the boomer generation, we fundamentally believed that human connection cannot be attained over the internet. Like there was a time where like online dating was not the norm. It was what the rejects did.

And it was like shameful that like you met your, your partner online, like because you couldn't find someone in real life. So you had to like do the online dating where the weirdos happen. But now like online dating is the norm. And there are some ways I think I, you know, you say this is the really, this is what pisses me off. If I could take one thought out of your mind, it would be the one where I'm afraid to do this because people are going to attack me. I've just, I have a very, uh, so I think that.

I have a very weird history with, uh, like I, with like showing emotion on Twitch, I guess, that makes sense. Yeah. So, so I understand why you feel that way. And I think that that is an appropriate and logical feeling. And I also think that Twitch is your family. And I think that's what's fucking beautiful about it. is that like like what I have seen is like you know I mean I you know I I watch Twitch I participate in Twitch I enjoy myself a dank meme from time to time tank memes you know just like just really dank and like the kind of stuff that you you missed out in the good times man I'm telling you 15 and stuff those were the dankest memes no dude you're watching Twitch then of course man oh you were a dank mimer in the back of the day dude the dankest like so look man I was around. I was around when memes were born. Okay. Oh, shoot. True boomer. Like true boomer. Like all your

base are belonged to us. Like people don't even know what that means anymore. They don't understand. Nice. Right? Yeah. Like yata. You know, Yeta? No, I don't know what that is. See, this is like you fucking Gen Z nobs. Like you guys don't know like, like, like, like, Man, so like this is like back when memes were born, man. Like Buffalox? You guys know what I'm talking about? Come on, Twitch. You guys know about Buffalox?

Okay, so we're a little bit over our head or out of our league here. Yeah, so one day we're going to have to do Dr. Kay does the history of memes. And I'm going to show you guys the sweetest, dankest, most original memes. Oh, well. Anyway. So, but I was around during the good old days. And I think it's not weird, right? So Mitch, what I want you to understand is that Twitch can be your family.

And that's why, like, you know, on the one hand, you're afraid of what they're going to do to you because in the past they have hurt you. But just like a normal family, sometimes they do things that hurt you and sometimes they do things that make you feel loved. That's how it's a lot easier. That's for sure. Yeah. But it's not real, though. Like, I need to find, like, things that actually ground me that aren't. I don't know.

I wouldn't say that it's not real. I just don't think that it's enough. Right. So I think that the vibes that I feel over the internet are actually genuine, but it's just not enough. Oh, yeah, no, I feel it for sure. Like, I told you I have like a weird empathetic side of myself. And like when I can truly feel that like that like love power from the internet, it like shoots me to like being a normal person for like a couple weeks. It's weird.

Okay. It's really weird. All right. Okay. So, Mitch, so practically, do you meditate? Do I? I do sometimes, yes. I don't practice it all the time, but like there haven't, it depends on the phase I'm in in my life, you know, but I definitely have gone years where I meditate at least once or twice a week. So I'm a little bit, honestly, I'm a little bit lost as to how to advise you. So generally speaking, what I, so I think what you did today with that little bit of, meditation was actually really good for you and I think you need to keep doing it. I think the concern that I have is that I'm not sure that you have the enough of a guardrail

around you to keep from like really that damn bursting. Yeah, but is the damn bursting like very bad? Will that spill over into days and weeks? I hope not. But the short answer is I don't know in your case, right? So I think there's a lot of emotion that's right underneath the surface. and so my generally what I'll tell people is I'll tell them to like practice a certain kind of meditation or something like that. In your case, unfortunately, I just don't know if that's like really like safe or handleable right now.

I would say that if you're interested in trying again, you should think about finding another therapist because you only went once, right? Yeah, I went to a therapist once and I didn't really get very far with them either. Yeah, so I would really consider like add that to your list of, you know, blueberries and other things like smoothies and things that you do to take care of yourself because I think you're in a slightly different place now and you may be able to get more out of it. Just a thought. The other thing is I think you feel this stuff deeply in your body. Do you exercise?

Very inconsistently. Do you go to, do you have access to a yoga class? I've never done yoga, but I do stretch from time to time. So you got it. Okay, done. You got to go to yoga. I do massages and like deep tissue stuff, just like not yoga. Tichi? No, never know Tachi.

Okay, so you got to do yoga or Tai Chi, one of those two. Okay. I think that's, like where you get super hot and then you like stretch where you're hot. It's not about stretching at all. It's also not about heat. It is about mind-body. So the goal of yoga is not about stretching. It's about to put yourself in a physical posture in which you're stable and also brings the attention of the mind to the present. That's the goal of yoga.

So it's a meditative experience more so than like a physical one's where you're saying? Absolutely. So it is a mind-body practice. So it's one thing. That sounds really, that sounds like it could be really good for healing, like stuff like this. It is really good for healing. Am I going to sit there and cry in front of all the cute yoga girls and stuff? Like, I don't really want to do that. No, you won't do that.

You may do that at the end, but that's exactly what we want, right? And if you cry in front of the cute yoga girls, you need to learn how to let yourself be David instead of Mitch in front of the cute yoga girls. It's hard. I swear, when you have an audience, it's almost like you just immediately want to, like, feel like good because you know it's like, it's like unprofessional or whatever. If something's bad, there's a bad stigma to it. That's what we got to fucking fix in you, man.

Like, I know it's hard, but like, yeah. go and instead of being watched by thousands of people on the internet, it's just going to be half a dozen cute girls and guys. So like you prefer. Yeah. Yeah. So give it a shot. And then the next time we talk, like, please do it at least once or ideally three times.

So that you can tell me how yoga works. You want me to do yoga three times in the next couple weeks? Yeah. Like ideally in the next week. And then you let me know, you know, if, if part of the audience makes this harder for you, then you let me know, and then we can also talk, you know, not on stream, but if, you know, but I, I think it's going to be good for you. I would appreciate that.

I, uh, if you, if you, um, if we could do both, like on stream and off stream, because there are things that are very deep, uh, and like would almost like come off as bias for sure on stream, but I would like to talk to you about if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. So we can, we can, we can, we can set up. you know, some time. But I think in the short term, here's why I think yoga's better for you. So like when we do meditation, it's a purely mental practice.

So all of the emotions come out. Yoga's going to give you a chance to let some of that stuff out, like physically, without it sort of like mentally rushing in. And try it a couple of times. And then when we check in next, you can just tell me how it's going whether you like it or you don't like it. And I can try to give you some other suggestions in terms of guidance. I assume that I will like it. So I think you're going to like it a lot. Dude, like, I like anything that's like, like, I love, like, things like that.

Like, Saunas and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And who knows, maybe you'll make an authentic human connection. But don't, no expectations. It's so weird, man. Like, I'm so shy and, like, unwilling to talk to people off stream.

But then as soon as the camera's on, I'm just, like, talking to everyone, right? Like, it's just, it's so weird. Like, yeah. You should see me off stream. man. I roll around like a depressed person. I don't talk to anyone. Like, I'm so different. It's so strange. I believe you.

Literally so strange. Yeah, that's because Twitch is a wonderful... Twitch makes people feel comfortable, right? That's what's so beautiful. Like, there's something truly beautiful about, like, Twitch in this community. Like, I know that we talk about toxicity and stuff like that, but I think there's something about, you know,

being a shy person who has trouble talking to people. And, like, but, like, you're one of us. Like, it's about us. Yeah. It's us, right? It's not about the normies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's about us.

Twitch has always been that way, man. Twitch has always been this, like, this, like, amazing community in this corner of the internet. That's, like, such, like, a, like, a tight-knit community, you know? Yep. It's not, like, YouTube or any other, like, platforms where it just seems so, like, spread out and, like, just not as, like, it's, like, not a family, you know? Like, Twitch feels like it's, they're the boys, dude. Like half these guys have been riding with me since like 2011. You know what I mean?

Like they've been watching and like playing the same shit. Like they, it's just, it's truly amazing. Like what has actually happened if you look at it like that, you know? Yeah. Yeah, which is cool. Yeah. Which I really, really respect those people, man.

Like any of you guys that have been like, oh, geez. And like I've seen the ups and downs and all that stuff. Like I appreciate you guys, man. And I could truly, you mean a lot to me, man. And like without you guys, I probably wouldn't. I'd be fucked. I'll just say that. I wouldn't be,

I wouldn't have had any outlet for all my shit. So thank you. Mitch, one last thing I'll leave you with. Okay, so this is karma. Yeah. So in my mind. So I think that life has dealt you a very crappy hand, but you've got a couple of aces in there.

You were alive at the right time, right? Like, this didn't happen to you like 30 years ago before there was Twitch and wow and before you could be a good mage. Like we're alive today. Before you could be a good mage. Yeah. Like we're being a good mage in. involve dungeons and dragons, which is amazing and I love, but also it's like, you know, so like,

like I think that, you know, it's my firm belief and this may be a belief that's out of fear that life gives us challenges and sometimes life gives us a lot of like shitty stuff, but life also gives us the capacity, like gives us the tools to do what we need to to like overcome the challenges that we face. So sure, you can feel alone because of your brother and your mom and your dad and stuff like that. And also you happen to be alive at a time where they're like thousands of people who can be your virtual family and do genuinely care about you. And so it's kind of like weird. And so it's our job to sort of, you know, not look. I mean, we can be upset about, oh, you know, it's unfortunate if this happened. Absolutely you're allowed to be upset and grief and

stuff like that. But like, like it's not about black and white, right? It's not that you're fucked or that you're lucky. It's that both of those things are true at the same time. That there's David and there's Mitch and Mitch is like this glorious guy who's like you know doing this stuff on on Twitch and then there's David who's kind of like you know when he shows up like Twitch doesn't like it and stuff like that it's about putting it all together it's about like being a whole person and understanding there are parts of your life that suck and there are things about your life that you're really grateful for and it's been really awesome to hear you express genuine appreciation for the person that you are in your circumstances and also to be like

to see you be so at the same time, like, broken because of, like, how messed up your life is and how alone you are, that you can be both of those things at the same time, and that's really what life is. And the goal of becoming a monk is to be able to sit with both of those things. That's where peace comes from. It's not the sunlight. It's not the shadow. It's twilight. Right?

By Stephanie Meyer. No, but. And that's what I want to help you do, right? It's to face the bad and accept the good. Like both of them. It's not either or. It's not being perfect. It's not about being successful.

It's about the highs and the lows. That's what life is. Mm-hmm. And that's the journey that, like, everyone wants to see because that's the journey that they can relate to. Good breath. Good side. Thoughts, questions?

No, I really think talking to you is a next level experience for me. I've never actually had any type of therapy that's done really anything for me. And it's very strange to give someone else full control over like your emotions. Like I feel like you could just like give me like a weird pressure point and just drop me and render me useless for a week. Like I don't know. Yeah. So the reason this works really well is because, you know, disclaimer, it's not therapy. Okay.

And secondly, one of my teachers once told me that I should. use my power for good and not evil. Yeah. Well, you make me realize things that I kind of already knew, but it's like, you just like make it so right there in my face, I have to like see it, you know. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm here for. And I also had one more question. Yeah. Before we go. Sure. So I've how, what is the best way of dealing with like negativity and like people that are just negative, right? Like I really struggle with this because I always have this like weird righteous way of like wanting like the truth or like you know karma or whatever you want to call it right like i get carried up in these dumb little mind games with like irrelevant situations and i'm wondering

how you would go about that yeah so i've got kind of a weird you know nature analogy because we're talking about meditation and stuff so what i'm what i'm envisioning is a gigantic wave or a wave that's hitting you right that's their negativity you're there's kind of there's a kind of like swept upness. Does that make sense to what you're describing? Yeah. Yeah. So how do you withstand a wave? You just dive through it. You can dive through it. Absolutely. That's not what I was thinking, but that does work. That's what I do. Yeah. So I think in my case, like, I just have my feet on the ground. Just let it hit you. Yeah, absolutely. Right. So dive through it, let it pass through you. Let it get past you. Like the important thing is to be stable within yourself. So I think one thing is that if you engage with them, it doesn't work well.

Right? That's like trying to push the wave away. Yeah. I have this weird thing where I just get so, like, I want to like engage and I want to like, I want to like show them that they're wrong. You know, it's so bad. So toxic. So that's, that's ego. Right.

So you want to convince them that they're wrong. What you need to do is dive through it. Yeah. Yeah. So you need to move past them. Not like, don't try to stop. the wave don't try to fight the way because that doesn't work. The other way to think about it is like, you know, how do you get, like if I have a bucket of water, or like let's say I have like a bathtub,

like how do I get the water to be still and calm down? If it's like split, like split, like split, wait time, right? Absolutely, right? So the more that you try to like, if I try to force all the waves down, if I like see a wave, I'm like, no, you stay still. This water needs to stay still. This water needs to And that's what you do. You engage with them. And then it's like trying to force water to be still. Your analogies are always spot on. I don't understand.

Yeah. So what you let them do is let it wash over you. So like understand that if you want to show them that something, if you want to show them, that's coming from you. It's not actually coming from them. They're hitting a cord with you that you don't want to be true. Right? So like some people have criticized me and I think the best way to handle criticism is to accept it.

People like, oh, like, I'm cool with criticism. I get more so annoyed with like certain people that have these like super like I could get into it. It's also a lot. But I have this weird thing that like attracts me to like negativity and like it's like it's like a continuing theme in my life. So I can understand. Yeah. So I mean, I'd say as best as you can dive through it. Right.

So let it wash over you. Like those people are. negative. So take stock and kind of who you are and like understand that you can't convince someone. So like Mitch, you know, so you were earlier saying how what I do is special and helpful, right? Yeah. Am I trying to convince you of anything? No. I don't think so.

I think you're just trying to learn. Yeah. But how are you learning without me convincing you of anything? Because you're unlocking the knowledge that's already there. Okay. So I think that's kind of the approach that you've got to take for them, right? Whether they want to see what is there is up to them. You can help them along. But if they're in a place where they don't want to see it, you've got to let that move past you. Let them wash over you. I understand that trolls are going to be trolls. Like that's what, like, you know, you can't, like, that's what's going to happen. Like, you can't change a troll's mind. Like, they have to want to learn. And over time, like the people that you can engage with, I think it's about ego and stuff like that.

I think this is actually worth like kind of a full conversation. So if we... Yeah, no, I would love to dive into this movie because this is another thing. So I think dealing with negativity from other people and sort of this idea that you want to show them and teach them like how it is and like, oh, yeah. Like, yeah, I have this weird, like self-righteous like this thing in me where I'm just like, I have to prove them wrong, you know. Yeah. I know I'm right. I know I'm right.

And I just get so fucking carried away with that. I ended up losing myself in those kind of situations as well, you know? Yeah, it's a really common problem, especially like, I don't know if you've used this thing called the internet, but it's full of people who are self-righteous and write and want to show other people how they're wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I check out the internet because there are people who are full of that thing there. There's like, there are these, so the internet has all these different websites,

but they're basically all the same. So there's this website called YouTube that has videos and people argue with each other about who's right. And then there's this website called Reddit, where they post something. So they post a link and then right beneath it, they argue about who's right. And there are just basically lots of these things called websites

and they're all about arguing. You even have reviews of like restaurants where they argue with each other about whether the food is good or the food is bad. And so it's, I mean, there's a whole, you know, billions of people out there who are just like you and trying to teach everyone that they're wrong and we're self-righteous.

So, yeah, we could talk about it next time. But I think, in short, you know, in short as best as you can try to implement that imagery of just like dive through it. Yeah, like the monk wouldn't care, right? Like the monk would just like let it happen, not get all developed in like my own ego of like trying to like prove someone wrong or whatever. it doesn't matter in the end of the day, right? Like,

so I'll leave you with one last thought, okay? So when you can, when you should convince someone is when you were righteous, but you are not talking about being righteous. You are talking about being self-righteous. So that's ego. Okay, so what is righteous? That's when you're completely unbiasedly looking at something, right?

That's when it's not about you. It's about them or about. It's about service. It's about righteous as to do what is right. Yes. But I think what you are talking about, use the right word, because I think you're yourself, righteous. That's about ego. Yes.

So should you try to convince other people of things? Absolutely. I mean, I spend a lot of my time doing that. But I do so when I actually am when my cause is just and it's not about me. It's about them. Okay. Right? So if you're trying to.

Oh, yeah. Just like, okay. Yeah, that makes sense for sure. So like, what if you're like so certain that like you can teach people, like you can teach someone like, are you. You know you're right, right? Like you're like so sure of it. That's still self-righteous, right? No, not necessarily.

So I think the issue is about like what's important to you. Are you serving a cause? Are you trying to prove them wrong and prove you right? A little bit of both. Yeah, so I think that needs to be separated. Because I do think that like, you know, sometimes I'll, I mean, sometimes I'll take a hard line with people. and you know I tend to be nice on stream and usually I'm a nice guy but sometimes if my blood gets up and I think that there's injustice being done I will use my power to destroy others.

That's kind of how I feel. Yeah. And I think that that's okay. Okay. But, you know, I think it's hard. So you have to have your ego in check. And in your case, I don't think yours is very healthy right now. Oh, yeah.

first. Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, thank you, Dr. Kay. I appreciate it, man. You're very welcome, Mitch. Strong work today, man. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. You are, yeah, definitely getting somewhere with whatever the hell is going on. Good. You're getting somewhere, too. Take care, man. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Have a good one, man. You too. Okay. So, um, that was fun. I really enjoy talking to Mitch. Yeah, no, I'm not going to... So this is the thing, right? So, like, if you actually think about it, like,

seeing into people's emotions, we just got to... I got to clear the air here, so, right? So, like, seeing into people's emotions and understanding who they are is also, like, what's used by, like, super, super toxic narcissistic people. Like, when you get someone who can understand things and is, like, narcissistic and predatory, they, like, destroy people. So, you know, but sometimes I think if, like, there's injustice being done in the world, like you should, you know, you should stand up and fight and do what you want.

Like, do what's right and help other people. Okay, so, guys, this is fun. What we're going to do, I just want to thank everyone for coming on again and watching Mitch. I think, you know, I hope some of that stuff was ready. resonating with y'all. You know, I think a lot of the stuff that Mitch struggles with is actually true for a lot of people, right? So, like, we wall off our emotions. So a couple takeaways.

When we have hurt, we tend to wall it off and create, like, a version of ourselves. We create, like, this character. And we try to be that character because being that character is better than, like, being, like, the hurt version. But the goal is to actually take those walls down and, like, let that hurt out and process it. so you can be free of it. Because the thing about walling off your negative emotions is it's like you're encumbered. Like, you know, like, you guys know like in an RPG when, I don't know if this happens, this doesn't happen in wow because you're like capped by space.

But, you know, some like RPGs will have encumbrance so you can be like way down and it gives you a movement penalty. And that's what walled off emotions are like. It's like you're feeling like way down. And sure you can still play the game, but it's like kind of hard. Yeah. You can't fast travel. like you're just gimped in some way, right?

So the goal is to actually be like a complete person, and being a complete person is about letting all that negativity out and kind of dealing with it and accepting it. And then you'll kind of feel better about yourself. You'll be more at peace. Like, that's where peace comes from. And understand that peace is different from fun. So what Mitch has done is he's walled all that off,

and then like in order to compensate for the negative emotions, he rides highs, right? Like he's like super, super fun and clowny and all that kind of stuff. So he, like, has this inflated positivity to kind of balance out that, like, walled off negativity. When instead what you want is to, like, actually have both of those kind of things be there at the same time.

It's like sweet and savory and spicy.