HealthyGamerGG - Motivation and Goals | Part 3: Resistance vs. Intent

Episode Date: October 11, 2021

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Seriously, it's a very hard line to walk as a mental health professional in terms of like, what do you hold people accountable for and what do you like get people a pass on? Welcome to day three of the goal setting and motivation curriculum for Healthy Gamer Coaches. So let's start by kind of recapping what we covered so far. So day one was an introduction. And we sort of talked a little bit about our model of how we approach goal setting and motivation. and the crux of it is that, so the key points of like goal setting and motivation is that generally speaking, there is an abundance of information about like how to become motivated available to people, but that access to that information does not actually like catalyze behavioral change, right?

There are so many YouTube videos about motivation and yet everyone is not out there, you know, crushing it day after day after day after day. And so why is that? There are many reasons for that. We explored a couple of different things. you know, the biggest reason that I've sort of discovered is that motivation is not like a monolithic thing. It's not like a binary thing where you have motivation or you don't have motivation. That if you look at human beings engaging in behavior, there are three discrete parts of that.

The first is the intent. And so like why they want to do the thing. The second is the resistance. So when I try to do something, like something is going to get in the way. Right. So if I need to study and I don't feel like it, like, Like, I don't feel like it is actually like a sign of something going on in my mind. So there's intent, there's resistance, and there's the actual action.

And so we sort of shared this model with you because it's our belief at Healthy Gamer that good diagnosis precedes good treatment. We're not really diagnosing anything medical here. But I think that's just a way of sort of sharing this principle that you have to understand a problem before you can fix it. And so a big problem that I notice when you look at things like the internet is everyone talks about. how to fix motivation, right? Everyone offers solutions, but what they don't do is like, tailor those solutions to your specific problems. So as a coach, the real value add in your mission, your Dharma, is to help clients figure out, like, why aren't they motivated? Like, where's the actual problems so that you can leverage some degree of like understanding and fixing it?

second day we talked about intent right so intent is a really really important piece that people will set goals for themselves and the reason that they don't meet those goals is because internally like who they are doesn't really align with the goal that they set so we sort of discovered that when i you know when i say to myself i want to do something or this is a goal that i have to set for myself that that goal can come from any number of four different places within myself It can be a desire. And desires are born of the Indrias or the sense organs. So what I mean by this is like if I want to play a video game, like, you know, I don't know that people in 1,200 CE like 800 years ago really cared about the launch of Wow Classic.

I don't think that they had any desire to play Wow Classic. And I know it sounds kind of silly, like duh. So then if you think about it, where does the desire to play Wow Classic comes from? it comes from a sensory experience that gives you the idea, oh, look, there's wow classic. So a desire comes from a sensory experience or the memory of a sensory experience. Another good example of this is when I'm walking down the street and I smell like, you know, someone cooking something. It can be like, oh, wow, that smells amazing.

Now I want to eat it. So that's a desire. So a lot of times what will happen is our clients will have goals based on seeing what other people are doing. They're like, oh, look at that person on Instagram. him, they are so happy. I wish I had that as well. They'll read about things on the internet. Oh, like, look at this person is like so happy. I wish I had that as well. So those are desires. The next thing that tends to drive a lot of people is the idea of should. So they have this like preconceived notion based on once again observation of the external world or different kinds

of pressures or societal constraints that will sort of tell them what they should be. And they they strive to be that thing. It's not what they want to be. And I'm not talking about desire. It's not actually something that they care about or value. It's something that society or their environment is telling them that they should do. And that can actually work for driving behavior sometimes, right? So as the desperation of not failing out of college, I shouldn't fail out of college. And as that kind of emotional energy builds up and I hit that last minute panic, I can't actually study because I should be studying right now. And so there are ways that should, can drive behaviors.

But what we really discover is that sustained progress towards your goals tends to happen when people align their goals with like internally what feels good to them. And those are their values and their duties. So these are the things that you owe people that you feel obliged to do like in service of your duty. And the cool thing about duty is that generally speaking, negative things will prevent us from engaging in a behavior. unless it's aligned with duty. So when something is hard and I want it, I won't actually do it. But when something is hard and it's my duty to do it, I will do it.

So this is a really fundamental thing about human behavior that generally speaking, negative things will prevent us from engaging in a behavior unless it's aligned with a duty. And then somehow something weird and magical happens, and this is sort of the paradoxical raising awareness of the negative. This is how this kind of plays in. that when you kind of acknowledge the negative, if it's kind of aligned with your duty, it can actually drive people to do it. And you'll kind of recognize this. We see like negative manifestations of this

in the world when we sort of like think about people who have martyr complexes. Right. So these are people who like because of the martyr complex, like they're willing to, they view themselves as a martyr and that really drives their behavior, right? I'm willing to take one for the team. I'm willing to be a martyr. And even the idea of martyr is someone who like dies for a car. right? So there's something really, really powerful there that has existed within like humanity for thousands of years that something about like I was reading about a monk, for example, who like apparently like did some kind of self-immolation is political activism. And if you kind of think about that, like that's absolutely insane, right? What would drive someone to put

themselves through so much public suffering and like so much intense suffering? And it's like, it's because they did it for a reason. So, you know, we would definitely don't self-immolate yourself, you know, like that's a terrible idea. But as coaches, what we can actually help people do is align their goals with their duties and their values. And the cool thing about that is once you help people move from like one of those quadrants to the next quadrant, what you'll see is like an increase in motivation and people actually

being able to not be held back by negative things. So we talked about the four, you know, the model of four different intents. We talked about conflict between these different boxes. And this is what ambivalence is. Right. So ambivalence is like, yeah, I don't want to play this video game today, but I do. So anytime people are stuck and clients are stuck, they're not stuck for no reason. They're stuck because they have a goal that has a positive, you know, thing.

It's like, yeah, like, I absolutely want a yacht. That would be awesome if I had a yacht. Like, that would be great. It's all upside. The reason I don't go out and get a yacht is because there's actually a downside. And generally speaking for our clients, this downside is a little bit of a blind spot. So as a coach, what our goal is going to be is to like elevate this conflict to their conscious mind, help them work through it. Use evidence-based techniques like motivational interviewing to help them get past some of their hurdles.

And then ideally like help them move in the right direction by clarifying their intent. Any questions about that? Okay. So now what we're going to do is talk about resistance. So remember that when we kind of think a little bit about our equation of motivation and how to motivate people, it starts. Let me make sure that this is fixed. This over here. And I got a screen share with y'all.

Okay. And then I got to switch to this. We good? Can everybody see now? Okay. So this is intent. this is resistance, and then this is action. So this is the first thing, first reason why resistance is important.

So clients will come to us and we'll say, I know what I need to do, I just can't do it. Like I'm too lazy. Like they'll look at the action over here and then they'll use terms like lazy or undisciplined or unmotivated. But these are all umbrella terms. They're not like precise things that are happening. within us, right? So like, even if I'm lazy, I may study for a test on one day and I won't study for a test on a different day. So it's kind of interesting because behavior isn't consistent. And so what happens is like people come up with these terms because they look at their insides and they

struggle to do something and they look at someone else's outsides. They observe someone else's external behavior without understanding their internal conflict. And then they compare their insides to other people's outsides, and they end up with these terms, lazy, undisciplined, unmotivated. Since these are umbrella terms and not real things, what that sort of means is that they're defining their problem in a way that is unactionable, right? Because like, what do you do if you're born with the lazy trait? You just suck. So there are, you know, there is evidence, for example, that based on the five-factor personality model that some people are more conscientious than other people. So we're not saying that this is, that there is no such thing as lazy, but I would say that

for 90% of the clients that I've worked with who describe themselves as lazy, maybe even more than that. It's not that they're lazier unmotivated. It's that their motivation is in a different direction from where they want it to be. And there's a process that like, you know, you can use to sort of uncover someone's motivation, uncover someone's discipline, and like help them be less lazy. So what really gets in the way is resistance. Okay. So what's y'all's experience of like resistance with a client? Do you guys like know what that means? Like how would you know if a client is resistant? What kind of stuff would you hear them say? Very good. So let's start with the signs of resistance. How do we detect resistance? I want to come a butt dot dot dot. What else? How do you detect resistance in a client?

it's hard. Excellent. What else? Very good. I can't. What else? I'm not that. Very good.

I'm not that. What else? Very good. What else? Very good. What else? Sure. I don't know.

Great. Great. Okay. Yeah. So that's excellent. So let's think about, so then you kind of ask like, what's, that eh, right? So what do you think? What else? Y'all are doing fantastic, by the way. Hello? Hello?

I don't find here, but on... Oh, oh, oh, no, sorry, Stream Labs was muted. G-G-G, okay. It's unmuted now. Coaches, can you have a... Oh, I understand what's going on now. No, they're fine. It's because they're picking up... Stream Labs is picking up my speakers. Oh, like, they're just like not. Okay. I think I figured it out. Should be fine now.

Can you know say something? Test. Okay. It's not possible. It's not possible. Great. We good? Okay.

Okay. So I'll give you all a couple others, okay? There's no point. And then we get to some subtle ones. It won't be enough. Okay? It'll be a waste of time. if it doesn't work. How do I know it'll work? You all see this? Another one, so you said, I can't, but I think another kind of manifestation of this is like, I'm different from other

people with this problem. Have you all heard that one? Like other people may be able to fix this, but I can't because I'm different. So let's kind of think about, so let's, let's, actually start by kind of outlining today. So here's, you know, our first thing is to remind us of our general model. The second thing we're going to talk about is signs of resistance, which we've just done. So like, you know, there's something that's driving this statement. The third thing that we're going to do is try to figure out where does this resistance come from. So what's the origin of resistance? And then as we sort of highlight the different origins of resistance, so it's going to be Manas, Ahamkar, Samshar. Okay. Then we're going to

sort of teach you all a little bit about how to manage these different things. So how do we fix these problems in people? Okay, so coach interventions. And remember that the key goal of this kind of curriculum and this teaching is not necessarily to give you all techniques. You'll you'll certainly see those in the manuals and stuff. I think this kind of explicit knowledge can certainly be useful, right? So once you all know what resistance looks like explicitly, it'll help you pick it up more easily. But to help you develop a good theoretical framework so that when someone comes in with a unique problem that we haven't prepped you for, you understand the principles of the game. Okay. And so the other key

thing to remember here is that I would say that resistance is the most important contribution that you can make. Like clients are pretty good. I think clients can be good at figuring out their own intents. You can use processes like journaling and stuff like that to figure out your own intent. You can even use like tips like action planning and like tips for, you know, how to set appropriate goals. I think those are pretty, you know, accessible for self work. Part of the reason that we emphasize resistance so much for coaches is because this is the thing that it's the hardest for clients to do on their own. And the reason for that is this is what their thought process manifests as, but this is not the problem, right? This is the manifestation

of the resistance, which is actually coming from these. three things. So I'd say resistance is the biggest blind spot for our clients and therefore you are the best at sort of fixing it. So let me ask you all something. If you all ever tried to play chess against yourself? Yes. How does that work? Super difficult. What's hard about playing chess against yourself? Because you know the other players moves. Exactly, right? So like how much can you learn, how much can you discover new things about playing chess through playing chess against yourself versus playing against a different person? You're limited by your own perspective. So it's really hard to discover anything new. And this is why coaching, like, so this

is why the main value ad you have is in resistance. Because you can sort of figure out intent on your own. You can figure out actions and goal setting on your own. But discovering your your own resistance is like playing a game of chess against yourself. Because it's the same mind that's in conflict. You guys get that? There's like, if we look at the resistance, I want this, right? That's me being white in terms of the chess pieces, right? So that's me playing on the white side of the board. And then there's the black side of the board. But the second I spin that that chess board around and start playing from the opposing viewpoint, it's actually one mind that's like generating both of the movesets. So discovery becomes very, very hard and like tricking yourself

in chess is like really hard. Because you know exactly. what the other person's thinking. All of the thoughts are coming from the same place. So it's very hard to make a discovery. So if y'all take nothing else away from the training, really try to focus on today and the importance of today because as coaches, the whole point is that you are able to recognize your client's blind spots. You're able to decipher these things, which they're not going to be able to decipher within themselves. And part of this is, you know, there's good science behind this as well. So these also include things like cognitive biases. right so this also includes things like schemas from cognitive behavioral therapy um so like i'm different

from other people is a cognitive bias i can't is a cognitive bias there's no point is a cognitive bias and it's really hard for human beings to see their own cognitive biases they may be able to see them after a fashion but it's not really like it's not a true sight i don't know how else to put this Like, you know, when you're playing chess against yourself and you do something sneaky, you can even tell yourself in your mind, I'm going to pretend like I don't know what the other half of me is doing. Have you ever done that when you play chess against yourself? Like, you're going to pretend, right? You're going to be like, okay, like, I'm not going to detect that right away. Because if I was playing white in this situation, I wouldn't see what Black was trying to do. So I'm going to like let Black, I'm going to kind of bait myself into it. I'm going to let myself fall into the trap. So people can kind of recognize their cognitive biases in the same way. On some intellectual level, they can recognize it. They can recognize it from an explicit memory standpoint. Right? They can sort of understand it informally, but they can't understand it implicitly. They can't get gne of it because it's all coming from the same mind. Okay. So now, are any questions about that? Okay. So y'all are pretty familiar. You all feel pretty good about like recognizing signs of resistance. Or do you think you think we need to talk more about that.

I'm feeling pretty comfortable. Okay, great. So now let's try to think a little bit about where does this resistance come from? There's a question in chat. So self-coaching is impossible even with awareness. You all see like this is a classic example. So I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying it's way harder.

And the second thing is just the fact that this person, so this is what happens, right? So people will amplify. certain things and like ask the question about whether it's impossible. Like do you guys see that? There's like there's like even in that question there's like a drive. I don't know how else to put that. Do you all see what I'm saying? Like do you guys get those kinds of questions? So who can explain what's going on behind that question? There's like a hopelessness like it won't work for me. Like do you mean that like this won't work for me? Yeah. So it could be that way. But what I'd sort of guess from that that person's perspective is that they're resistant to engage in coaching and they're like asking. for a yes or no question that will give them license to not try coaching. You all see that? Right? Because

I'm not going to say it's impossible. They're like, okay, great. So I can do it. Like, I don't need coaching. Easy. I can do it on my own. Right. So it's so interesting how people's questions like can even be a sign of resistance. Anyway, so I'm going to try to ignore chat. So let's kind of move on. So where do you guys think this resistance comes from? Let's move on to step three. Origins of resistance. and I know I've sort of given you all the answer, but let's kind of walk through it. So where do you all think these statements come from? Sumskars.

Okay, what's a Sumskar? And digested emotion. Okay. So like, yeah. Okay. Maybe from like a past experience. Okay, past experience. So help me understand how a past experience leads to one of these statements.

Well, if it happens before, then your mind will predict that it'll happen again. and then you feel less likely to succeed maybe. Okay. So which one of these statements, Eli, what do you think would come from a past experience or some, Scott? I think maybe like it'll be a waste of time or how do I know if it'll work? Perfect, right? It'll be a waste of time.

Because they've had a past experience where they tried something and it didn't work. And therefore their brain logically concludes, right? Because like our brain is pretty smart. If I try to reset my sleep schedule three times and I fail after 24 hours all three times, what is my brain going to tell me? I can't reset my sleep schedule. I'm different from other people. Other people can reset their sleep schedule, but it'll be a waste of time for me.

And therefore, they stop trying. That's the resistance and they never act. Excellent. And remember that undigested emotion, so I think some scars and past experiences go hand in hand. Right. So what tends to happen with a sumscar? What's the relationship between a past experience and a sumscar? Who can explain it? It builds an identity.

Okay. So we'll get to identity in a second. So what's the relationship between past experience and sumscar? So smascar would be the emotion associated with the experience compared to the past experience. Like it could also just be a pattern that the brain has picked up on. Excellent, right? So this is what happens. We have past experience. I got dumped.

And that comes with emotion. And then what happens is after I get dumped, I distract myself. I'm a play a game. I'm going to get hammered. And then that emotion goes dormant. And then what happens is our brain, our buddi, scans the present. And the next time I get into a relationship, it's like, hey, we've done this before. You remember what happened last time?

and then I engage in the relationship, some scar activates, and then the emotion returns. And then even though I'm dating someone new, I feel like I'm going to get dumped. And then since I feel like I'm going to get dumped, I'm going to say, let's think about how that would manifest.

I don't know if this relationship is going to work, even though I want it to work, and I like the person I'm dating. right? And what's driving that is this emotion that returns. We go there. And so then what happens is each experience, so we can have experience number one, experience number two, and experience number three. And each of those will elevate the negative emotion. And over time, the sumscar will become very strong, and then I'll never date again. Okay? And so that emotion kind of returns. Very good. So let's talk. So, you

you all can kind of see that like, you know, what do you think are the emotions that relate? What do you think are, like, let's list out the emotions that relate to these statements. So what do you think that our clients feel that cause them to be resistant to taking action? Here. Excellent. What else? Hurt? Yep.

Shame. Excellent. What else? Pressure. Embarrassment. Pressure. Yeah. embarrassment. What else?

Doing great. There's more. Come on. Guilt? Yep. Alienated? Yep. Good. Frustration.

Yeah. Now we're getting there. This is a valence of emotion that y'all are just scratching the surface of. What else? What's in the frustration bucket? Powerless? Yeah. What else? Hopelessness? Good.

What else? Defeated? Sure. Lonesentment. What would you say? Lonely? Lonely, absolutely. Resentment.

Anger. Right? There's a lot of that stuff in there. And so here's the thing, especially for our population that's relatively elixothymic, they're not going to be aware of this. Like, when they think about, let's say, I want to become financially independent move out of my parents, house, this is not what they associate that goal with. But if I want to move out of my parents' house, that means that I'm living where? And if I'm living with my parents at my age, what

emotions come with that? Shame. Anger. Absolutely, right? All of the above. And so the challenge is that, you know, they look at the goal, right? And they're like, oh, yeah, like, I want to move out. And I'm going to be independent. Like, it's going to be so great. But, there's no point. I've tried it before. Other signs of resistance. I just need to figure out. This is a big one.

I just need to figure out. I'll be ready when. When? Oh, I'll ask this person out after I lose 20 pounds. I'll apply for a job when I've had something reasonable to put on my resume. You know, I want to take this course before I do this. Right? These are all signs. Sorry.

Yeah. Where would we put the idea of like not willing to start until there's a guarantee of success? Beautiful. We'll get there. Okay. Right. So did we not get there at all? Okay.

Yeah. I'll be ready. I stick it with I'll be ready when. Okay. So in that, let's just talk about that for now. So, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll apply when I'm sure that my application is perfect. So what are we trying? What is that person like?

what's the emotional valence? Like, how does that work? Why does someone say that to themselves? And what's going on emotionally in that person? I would imagine that they predict like a, there'd be a really strong negative experience if it didn't work out. So they want to make sure that it does work out to avoid that. Exactly. Well said, right? In a nutshell. So I cannot afford to feel the negative consequence of the rejection. therefore I'm going to stack the deck in my favor to make sure that I don't get hurt. It is avoidance of emotion. Motivates our clients to stay stuck. Okay, this is a key concept, which I think you all already understand. Y'all get that?

So like, it's kind of interesting. So now we understand, like, the origin of resistance is absolutely this negative emotion. but like they're highly motivated to do nothing. Right? So we have to understand that as coaches. That this is not someone who's lazy. They're actually quite dedicated. You know, like, you have to work really hard

and you have to emotionally suppress a lot of shame to keep playing video games all day long when you're like 26 and going nowhere in life. I had an interesting, so I run a group for e-sports professionals. And one day we had this kind of random tangent. But like, we were talking about like toxicity in pub games. And like, I don't know if you guys are kind of familiar with this, but like, you know, if you watch like streaming and stuff and you watch like pro gamers who stream, they're like,

you know, let's say like the top tier pros are like maybe the 100 best players in the world. But then there are people who will play who will be like rank like 200 to 600. And just imagine what it feels like to be like a ranked 200 person, right? you've dedicated 10 years of your life, you're one of the best 200 people in the world, and you never go to even a tier two tournament. And like, what does it feel like to be that person? And so it's kind of interesting because,

you know, when we're trying to understand like the toxicity of those players, like understanding what their internal emotional state is like makes so much more sense. Because like, you know, what's their prospects for the future? like they don't really have much, right? If I've spent, if I've, if I've, if I've been playing Dota for about 10 years and I'm trying to go pro and I haven't made it yet, like what is going to happen? You know? So I think that a lot of times if you think about people like our clients who feel really stuck, and by the way, stock doesn't necessarily have to mean living in your mom's basement, right? So stock can mean like being in a relationship that you don't think is the right one for you, but you're afraid to leave because. you're afraid that this is the best it's going to get. So you try really, really, really hard to make this relationship work, even though all the signals are saying you should GTFO.

But you're not sure if you can find someone else. That can be resistance. Resistance can be like successfully having like a good job where you make six figures a year. But you're not really happy on a day-to-day basis and you feel burnt out and you're not really sure like how to make a change in your life. you know, and you kind of spend your days looking at Instagrams of people who have quit their job and are traveling the world, but you don't have the balls to do it. You know, because that would be stupid. It would be throwing away everything that I built. Sometimes in our content creator program, we'll get streamers who need to take a break and can't take a break.

Have you all, anyone here from content creator program? Yeah, so Steve, have you encountered that? Yeah, I've had a couple creators who, very much fall into that basket of like, I'm not allowed to have bad feelings because I'm a successful streamer. I'm not allowed to take a break because I made it. And if I leave, I'll never be heard from again. Right.

So if they're not allowed to have bad feelings, where do those feelings go, Steve, when they have bad feelings? They get turned into somsars. Absolutely. And then some scars do what in terms of their feelings? life. How does it affect their life? It recurs and grows over time and makes everything harder.

So absolutely. So that's the key thing. So like this crap is there. You've purchased this crap by your actions and your circumstances. And then the more that we suppress it, it goes dormant and then manifests as resistance. Shows up looking like this.

And the interesting thing is that if you look at these statements, there's no emotion in these statements. Right? I want to, but it's hard. I can't. It's logical. Here are all of the reasons why I can't. Let me use logic. I'm a different kind of person. That applies to other people, but not to me. Once again, logic. It's not possible. Logic. Logic, logic, logic, logic, logic. But buried beneath it is emotion, and these people stay stuck. Because these beliefs, the energy that drives these beliefs is purely emotional. Okay? So it can be some scars, emotions.

So this is one of the key origins of resistance. Now let's talk about a humkhar. So what is a humkhar? The sense of eye or ego. The sense of I, right? So what happens over time is as we develop negative experiences in the monas, we develop an ego that actually protects us from our negative emotions. So remember that the ego is the bouncer of the mind.

So when we feel an insecurity, what does the ego do? What are the signs that the ego is active? Comparison for other people's up. Very good. Comparison. What else? Maybe like logic or over-explaining? Yep.

So I'm going to call it bullying buddi. So we'll explain that in a second. Gets bullied. What else? Or let's just, I guess let's talk about that now. So remember that when someone is egotistical, they will take their intellect or their logic and they'll bully it into crafting a logical story that supports their viewpoint. So we see this all the time in politics. We see this all the time in terms of like psychological defense mechanisms, right? Like people will just like justifications and rationalizations are good examples of this in like Western psychology. So oh yeah, it's not. my fault that I cheated on my partner. My partner wasn't emotionally available to me. So what choice did I have? It's a rationalization. I didn't do anything wrong. They drove me to do it. I had no choice. And if you try to logically argue with that person, you won't get anywhere. So the tricky thing about the hump card, you could also see this all over the internet. Like, you look at any argument

on the internet. My favorite is like looking at when you have these like people arguing about like strategies and games and like they'll say like, oh, this is a dumb idea. And they'll just like argue against each other until the end of time. And usually, like, one of them's an idiot. They'll never recognize it. And then you could tell by the downvotes. Because, like, one person has, like, a bunch of up votes and one person has a bunch of down votes. Right. So you can see this attitude all the time where everyone believes they're logical, but it's actually their Ahamkar that's bullying their intellect into,

you know, presenting something that they believe is logical. What else does the Ahamkar do? There's one more thing. What do noob's on the internet do when their logic is refuted? Put themselves up, put others down. Absolutely, right? So pump themselves up. When I say something stupid on the internet and someone, and I don't have a logical leg to stand on,

I'll be like, one v, one mid, let's go, noob. What are you? One KMMR? I'm 2KMMR. I'm 1.1K MMR. Who the hell are you? Like, shut the hell up. I'm so much better, right?

Put other people down. So we also see this in e-sports in a very interesting way. So sometimes we'll have a team who's an underdog. And the underdog knows that they're an underdog. So what do they do? They start ramping themselves up in their mind and like crapping mentally on the team that they're about to play against. It's kind of interesting.

So they'll be like, oh, like they're not that great. He's not all that. We're better. They're worse. and instead, actually, what leads to the best outcomes is not doing that self-psychological like psyching up process, but acknowledging, hey, this team is better than we are.

We're not favored in this matchup, but if we play our best game, we can actually win. It's going to be an uphill battle. And generally speaking, we see the best performance when teams adopt that attitude and remove a hum-god from the equation. Okay? So, we can also see this.

So which of these statements? comes from a hum-god. I've tried this. Okay. I've tried this before. I'm not that. Yeah, this is the big one. Right? What else? Not possible. Okay.

Sure. So here's what I'd say. If you just look at the subject, right? So like some of these, like, some of these include I. I'm different from other. people. I'm not that. And some of these are like externally pointed, right? There's no point. Now, this may be a humkhar too, because if I view myself as a failure, then there's no point. You'll see that? So this is good. I mean, the truth is that any of these statements can be coming from Munas or a humkhar. And remember that the two intertwine, right? It's not like Munas or a Humkar.

Anytime you have negative emotion in the Munas, the Ahamkar is going to activate. So the two play hand in hand. But in short, sometimes what's going to happen is our clients will have a sense of identity that prevents them from acting. And what do I mean by that? Do you all understand what I mean by that? What do you all think? Like they've maybe built a construct of themselves that doesn't align with them succeeding? Absolutely. That's beautifully put. Right. So this is the kind of thing where like, oh, disciplined people could do this, but I can't do it because I'm not disciplined. And as long as they have that belief there, their likelihood of success is going to be very, very low. Right? So this is why like you'll have these like, you know, feel good success blogs that's like have faith in yourself.

You know, develop confidence in yourself. Like if you look at like, you know, pick up or red pill kind of stuff, right? They're like, you got to present confidence because like women are attracted to confidence. Just be confident, bro. Here's how you become confident. You know, so it's sort of this idea that like the who we are for. factors into our perception of success. And so we have a part of our brain that basically does this calculation, which is like, you know, gain minus loss times percent of success. So this is an equation that our brain is running all the time. And so like what happens is if I have an identity that views me as a failure and this number goes down,

my motivation is going to be very. very, very low, right? So these are the two major sources or three major sources of resistance. So now the question becomes, how do we help clients with Manas and a humgad? Or Samskad and a Hamgar? What's our play? Just like quick question for the gain minus loss equation? Does that equal motivation or resistance? That's a good question. Let me think about that. I would say like this is this calculation results in action or inaction is what's on the right side of equal sign. I'd say it's like percent likelihood of action. I may need to redeem myself tomorrow once I think about it. But I think that's what we're talking about.

I think it should be fair. Does that make sense to y'all? Was that a mistake? The likelihood of action I think is what we're talking about here. Okay. So, what do we do with mana, samskata, and a humkhar? How do we manage these as coaches? I'm thinking maybe with the monas, you can change their perceptions of each of those variables. Okay, very good, right? So the first thing that we can do is when you say change their perception,

I'm going to divide that into two pieces. One is we can uncover emotion, right? So their perception is like this, statement. So in order to change their perception, what we have to do is uncover the emotion. And once you've uncovered the emotion, then you can start to metabolize it. Right. So this is what we call emotional catharsis. It's what we call the aha moment as well. That's maybe more nyan, but the two go hand in hand. So like, and this is also where things become implicit memory from a scientific perspective and when they become nyan from a spiritual perspective. Okay. So uncovering emotion is the first step. The second thing that we can do is redirect their neuronal pathway.

So what I mean by that is our neurons tend to form grooves almost like game trails. So there's a saying in neuroscience that neurons that fire together wire together. So generally speaking, human beings will have like scripts running in their mind. So when I like play a game of Dota, for example, I will like automatically, do particular things. And that's because my brain is like, it's run this script before. And even when it comes to motivation and goal setting and taking action, our brain is running these scripts. Oh, I'll do it when I'm ready. How do I know it'll work? It'll like run into this auto script. And as we uncover awareness of the emotion and start to metabolize it, we can redirect their thinking

in a more positive way. So instead of like every day they wake up and they think, oh, I should study today, I should study a day. And those neurons become like well grooved and will start to like become easier and easier to access those thoughts. And so the analogy that I like to use is a game trail. So imagine that I have a field of like we like high grass. Okay. So once a deer walks down that high grass and then it starts to like form like a very small pathway. And the next day, a different deer walks by and it looks at all the tall grass and it says, oh, there seems to be one spot that's a little bit trampled. So it walks down that way as well. Third day, a third deer comes by, tramples the grass a little bit more. And now suddenly the grass has been trampled

so much that a rabbit can even walk down it. You don't have to be a deer. And then a field mouse, and then lots of animals start to use the game trail. And so over time, the way that we start thinking becomes more and more solidified. So by using questions and reflections, we can take a stuck client and get them to think about things in a new way. Oh, maybe the reason that you're not able to do it isn't because you're incompetent. It actually has to do with like you have an immense amount of shame that is holding you back. It's almost like your brain is trying to protect you from being hurt. Because every time you've done this before, you've gotten absolutely destroyed. So I could totally see why you wouldn't want to do it again. And oddly enough, that interpretation and sort of helping people

like reinterpret their understanding will actually redirect their neuronal pathways and start to catalyze change. And y'all may have seen that in terms of clients you've worked with where like, you know, they come in with a certain conception. And this is the real challenge with goal setting because like they come in with a particular goal.

But their goal is based off of this statement. Right? It's based on this understanding. It's not based on this. And so oftentimes the goals that they'll come in with is tricky. need to be reworked to things that are actually more appropriate and address the obstacles that they face instead of where they want to go. And that's the biggest problem with goals

is that our clients are here. They want to go here. So they say, let's get here. But what they ignore is like, what's the wall in the way? Because the real goal is removing this. This is what's keeping you from getting you to where you want to go. So in terms of decompressing them on us, it starts by raising awareness.

and uncovering the emotion, metabolizing the emotion so that that emotional energy is not as strong and therefore will decrease that resistance hump. If this is the resistance hump, once you metabolize emotion, it goes from here to here. And then it's easier for them to do. And when you fully metabolize the sum scar, this is what it looks like. And then action is actually very easy to obtain. And once people get to this state, this is why if you ask someone who's highly motivated, they're not actually like super fired up. They just do it easily. It's easy for them. It becomes easy. And this is what we see with our clients when we metabolize emotions is they come in one week and they're like, yeah, I did it. And it's like, what? How did you do it? It was so hard for you

a month ago. How did it become easy? They're like, I don't know. I just did it. I just realized. So we see this in addiction recovery as well where, you know, reasons to quit and there's a lot of resistance. And then once we get the emotions down here, what people will say is, I just realized, I have to quit. One day I woke up and I knew enough was enough. And so that process actually has like a very real, neuroscientific, psychological, not really spiritual, but really neuroscientific and psychological underpinning to it. And this is basically how it works. Questions about that? Yeah. I have a question about the redirecting neural pathways. Is that something that kind of just happens naturally over like reflective listening? And like, do they just kind of like naturally start to question around

like belief system or like? Yeah. So it doesn't happen naturally. So if you just randomly like reflectively listen, it's not going to be sufficient. So this is where asking open ended questions is important. So I want you all to understand this for a second. So here's our client. here's what they know and kind of here's what they and based on what they know they're not able to achieve their goals in order to achieve their goal

this is what they need to know. So our work as coaches is on this barrier right here. So you ask like, they're like, oh yeah, like they come in and you say, okay, why are you stuck? And they're going to give you a bunch of answers. And then you're going to ask them

an open-ended question, right? You're going to notice something. You're going to notice some kind of discrepancy. see, we'll get to that in a second. And then you're going to ask him a question, and you're going to, like, extend them over here. And then this is going to be the new barrier of their knowledge. And then you're going to ask another important question,

and it's going to get over here. Right? And you're going to ask another important question, and it's going to get over here. And remember that reflective listening can move you in this direction, too. Right? So what's the goal of reflective listening?

Why do we reflectively listen? What does the client do after you do effective reflective listening. Maybe like whatever emotion they had kind of gets amplified a little bit. Absolutely, right? It uncovers stuff. Right?

So this barrier gets advanced through open-ended questions and reflective listening. And this is also why we sometimes ask you, you know, like, we'll just kind of read my mind question. But when you have a client who's on the brink of leaving

and quitting coaching, what should you do? Validate and reflectively listen. Sort of. that's not actually what I advocate most of the time when y'all feel that way because y'all have been doing that don't isn't it don't we throw a hell what we call like a hill mary absolutely so help me understand why that's important Brian um well it's kind of important because it's you kind of like step out what we would normally do as a coach and we kind of like put everything like on the table like and more or less

we kind of like step not like review what we say but like hey this is one of I'm seeing and like here's the situation and like we just like lay it on them. Absolutely, right? So what a Hail Mary is is they're right here and they're stuck and coaching is not working for them. And what we're going to do is like point this out to them. And it's almost like a traumatic shift. And it's like, hey, so in the past, I understand that coaching is not working for you and that

you want to quit. So in the past, when things aren't working for you is your usually. response to quit. This is precisely why you can't quit. Because every time when things don't work out, you don't persevere. And you're just doing it again. Right? Their interpersonal pathology, they'll bring into coaching. And so that's your opportunity to say that like, look, I know this hasn't been working. I'd like to work on it. I'd like to figure this out. And if you're with me, I'm confident that we can do it. And I can see why you're concerned. Like, I can see why you're complaining because I haven't done the best job. Maybe I should have been doing this. Maybe I should

have been doing this. And at the same time, like, you're asking me for suggestions and I'm giving them to you. And then you don't actually try them. And then you conclude that it isn't working. So like, what do you want to do at this point? If you want to quit, you're more than welcome to. Like I'm seriously, like maybe it's not a good fit. But I really, like, here's what I'm seeing in terms of your patterns and what you tend to do. And so you kind of like lay it all out there. you kind of toss out a Hail Mary. And usually, so then it sort of happens. It's like the testing moment.

Either you catch the pass and you score a touchdown or it fumbles and they're gigged out. But remember that our job as coaches is to help them, not keep them there. And so sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. And if you need to throw a Hail Mary, you need to throw a Hail Mary. Okay.

But generally speaking, our goal is to, you know, use these techniques to help them understand, you know, how emotions are. are actually controlling them. And then once they understand how emotions are controlling them, then they can start to work on it. And then their chance of like engaging in action goes up. Does that make sense, Jake?

Okay. So I recognize that we started late today. It's 12.15. So if you all need to step out, you're, you all are welcome to. Otherwise, I'll try to wrap up in 15 minutes. Is that cool? Okay.

So now let's talk about a hump god. So I'll kind of speed run this a little bit. So as you all have already said, as people pile up with emotions, what they end up doing is forming identities of themselves. And oftentimes this identity destroys their motivation. Right. So like in cells are a good example of this. Where if you think about the in cell identity, there are all kinds of things about the identity that like protects people. Like we form this identity for a reason. Okay. So like other examples are like people with a victim complex. Right. So this is another protective identity.

Because if I'm always the victim and the world is a mean place and I'm dealing with tons of, you know, like everyone's being unfair to me, what does that protect me from? The emotions. Which ones? Let's be more specific. Okay. The shame of I'm wrong. Absolutely. Not even the shame. It protects you from I'm wrong.

Because if you're a victim, who's at fault? The other person. Absolutely. Anyone but me. Right? So we can see why people form victim complexes. Because they're incredibly protective. You're protect, like, you never have to take responsibility as long as you're the victim.

You know, I'm not saying that victims don't exist. Like, absolutely people are victims. And this is the real challenges that even as a psychiatrist, right, like when you're dealing with someone with trauma, it's really tricky. Or if you're dealing with someone with mental illness, for example. So let's say like someone with bipolar disorder. There's a very fine line. You have an illness.

Do you deserve compassion? Absolutely. Do you deserve support? Absolutely. Do you sometimes get a free pass from time to time? Absolutely. But do you get to blame everything on being bipolar? No. And this can be very hard for people to understand. Do you get a free pass from time to time? Absolutely. Oh, it wasn't my fault. I was manic. And so I did a bunch of stuff. Like sure. Like, I can get that, right? People literally can't control their actions with their manic. Question is, how'd you become manic in the first place? Did you stop taking your medication? Did you start using drugs? Did you stop coming to therapy?

So anytime there's kind of a victim complex, you know, we have to be kind of careful because if the victim is sort of saying, I'm wrong and it's, I've been wronged and it's not my fault, what it also means is that they're giving up their agency. They're giving up their control. so as a coach like for a lot of people with a humkar you know

we have to be really really careful about what they're giving up by adopting their identity and by pointing out to them that if you are doomed to be single

you're giving up any kind of power that you have to like enter into a relationship right so like it's a hard seriously it's a very hard line to walk as a mental health

professional in terms of like what do you hold people accountable for and what do you like give people a pass on? You know, another good example of this is like people who lose their ADHD stimulant medication. It's like they're more likely to lose their medication because they have ADHD and they're like impulsive and forgetful. And at the same time, like sometimes people are selling it because one bottle can sell for like $1,000.

And so how do you know? It's tough. The point is that they're going to form some kind of identity based on their experiences. And as long as that identity is where they're operating from, it's going to color a, everything that they can try. It's going to color their like calculations about what's going to happen. Okay. So how do we deal with a humkhar? Any ideas? Like what are some techniques that you all have used to help people understand like and overcome their humk car? Meeting them where they are with compassion. Okay, good. So meeting them where they're at. Right? What else? Noticing when is active enough. Very good. Noticing the activity.

What else? Understanding where it came from? Excellent. Understanding the origin. Okay. So. Reflecting it back? Yep.

Excellent. Okay. So now we get to like, you know, kind of practical questions. So like, who does this make you? So if you're trying to get to the Aham God in a very explicit sense and show them, this a humkaw, how did you get to be like this? Right? So this is a really important question that gets to understanding the origin. Point out the double standard.

So once again, from our content creator program, you all have content creators that never want to take a break and can't afford to take a break. And then you ask them, hey, so-and-so is taking a break right now. What do you think about that? I think it's awesome. They should do it. It's really important for their mental health. What do you think about you taking a break? Oh, no, I can't afford that. right? So you want to point out to them like, oh, like there's a discrepancy going on here. And so this is a key technique in terms of like goal setting is point out the discrepancy. Right. So you'll get that these are open-ended questions, which you all already know how to ask. But as a coach, when you're targeting a particular thing and you understand what you're targeting,

it should shape your open-ended question. It's not a random reflective listening or a random open-ended question. You don't want to ask an open-ended question over here and then one over here. You want to ask this one, then this one, and then this one. And get them in the direction that you need to go. So in terms of meeting them where they're at, you don't ask this one first. You meet them here. You find the barrier of their understanding. And you extend the barrier of their understanding through like key questions and like statements.

And then you kind of focus on the discrepancy, right? Like, this can be important for goal setting as well as like emotions and a hum car and things like that. You can ask questions like, how would your life be different if? What would be the advantage of dot, dot, dot? What would it make you feel like if you could? Right? The second thing that we're going to do is point out their reluctance. So I use the word reluctance here slightly different from resistance.

So I think resistance is something that we understand. but reluctance is a better way to frame things for your clients. Because reluctance implies who's in control. We are, the coach. I was hoping the opposite. So if you kind of like think about 50-50, well done, Jake. So when I think about reluctance, right? So like when I ask the question, what makes you reluctant to go to the gym?

In my mind, maybe I'm wrong here, right? Because I screwed up Oams Law. So it's not like I'm right. So this could be some weird frame that I've developed that doesn't actually translate. It makes sense for other human beings. Happens from time to time. But when I think about what makes you reluctant to go to the gym, it sort of implies that the control is within the client's hand.

Does that make sense? If not, Jake, I'd love to hear your perspective because chances are you're right. I felt like you're reluctant because it's like a dog that's like reluctant to move and you're like pulling it. Like I'm leading. That's where I. I see. I see. So I think that makes sense.

So I think once again, I think it's my fault for not setting the stage properly. That's why I'm sort of using a different word because I think what you're describing is resistance. So like if you're trying to take the client somewhere and they don't want to go there, that's resistance. Hence the whole point. So I totally get where you're coming from. I think it's basically, you know, the model that we use is what you sort of said. So that's why I'm sort of suggesting that y'all change the word when you're talking. to the client.

And you kind of use, like, what makes you reluctant to go to the gym? Because what you're sort of saying is that ultimately it's within their control. It's the whole reason I'm introducing a new term, because I think it's slightly different. So, and so this is where, you know, as you start to explore their resistance, like, what makes you reluctant? What would it be like if you went to the gym? What would it feel like if you could go to the gym? How would you feel about yourself? and then what does it feel like to not be able to go to the gym?

Do you really think genuinely that you can't go to the gym or you think that you could go to the gym but something's getting in the way? So start to ask some of these questions. And then eventually you can get to specific questions like you try to figure out, is this an issue of a hum-god or is this an issue of Sumska? Like I want to go to the gym,

but the second I step in the doors, I get an overwhelming sense of anxiety and I want to turn around and run away. that sounds more like sumskar. Whereas, because remember that the sumscar is the activity of an emotion that arises in your mind, like suddenly. And with a humkart, it's sort of a sense of identity. And then you can try to figure out because each of those is going to have a different approach, if that sort of makes sense. One is going to be combating the subskart in the present.

The second is sort of like, if I believe I'm someone who can never get healthy, you have to sort of address that from an humkart standpoint. Okay. The other important thing here when dealing with resistance is you need to be really focused on like actions versus outcomes. So our clients will sometimes have perfectionistic mindsets. And the perfectionistic mindset comes from resistance. So what's going to happen if they're like, have this perfectionistic mindset and they try to do something is that they're going to fail. and then it's going to destroy their motivation, right? Decreases motivation.

So what you want to try to frame things as is like what I'd call the price of tuition, right? Like emphasize that what we're doing here, working towards your goal is like a long-term thing. It's not a success or a failure. It's not even binary. We'll talk about this a little bit more tomorrow, but in terms of how to frame goals. But that it's a long-term engagement because it takes time to figure these things out. And this is where your attitude as a coach is, going to be really important because this is one of the things that we do as coaches that

you will not recognize that you are doing and your client will not recognize that you are doing but you are absolutely doing which is modeling behavior so remember that just like we learn slang your client is going to be picking up things from you so when your client sets a goal for themselves and they fail and they come in and they feel like a failure and you don't treat them like a failure that's going to start to rewire their neurons. So sometimes clients will get this question, how do I change myself talk? And the answer is by listening to someone else

who talks to you in a different way. So if we look at why do some people have negative self-talk? It's not like random. They have negative self-talk because they were conditioned to have negative self-talk. They had emotionally abusive parents who always blame them for everything. And so then they learned how to talk to themselves

like in a blaming kind of way. And so as a coach, as you model a certain approach to failure, they will start to like pick up on that. And eventually what will happen, remember the goal of coaching is to have your client no longer need to come. And why is that?

How does that work? It's because the process that you do with them, they're able to like do on their own. Right? So when you kind of, when they come in and they fail and you're like, wow, man, that sucks. You're expressing empathy. You're expressing compassion.

Hey, by the way, you don't have to beat yourself up. I'm noticing that you beat yourself up. What's up with that? Where does that come from? I'm noticing that I'm kind of wondering, because I've heard you kind of say certain things, you know, do you sometimes, like, are you surprised at all that you failed? Because I've heard you say some things that would make me think that, like, you were actually expecting to fail. That on some deep level, like, you thought that you were going to fail because you are a failure. What do you think about that?

They're like, oh, shit. I never quite like, yeah, it's absolutely true, but I never realized that. Then you ask the next question. if you actually believe you're a failure and you expect to fail, what do you think that does to your chances of success? They're like, oh my God. And then you've done something really magical there because what you've managed to do

is you've managed to say that it's not you that's being a failure. It's your belief that you're a failure that causes you to fail. So I want you to answer this question. Okay, please get it right. I am a failure. I believe I am a failure which causes me to fail.

What's the difference between these two statements? One is a fact. Absolutely. What's the other one? Feeling. Distance. Emotion. Right? This is it.

When your clients get distance, when the facts that control their life become emotions, their life can change. Huge, huge impact. Happens subtly. Happens slowly. Happens because you model it. Okay? So the next thing to kind of emphasize is that when you're dealing with failures, when you're dealing with clients who set goals, we want to focus as coaches on patterns. not outcomes.

Okay? So this is going to be one of the ways that we kind of become action-oriented. But like asking your clients, like, what's the pattern here? So I'll give you guys like a good example of this, right? So someone says, okay, I want to start eating healthy. I'm going to adopt a diet. I did it for four days and then I screwed up. I couldn't even last a week.

I failed. G-G. I suck. I can't diet. I'm undisciplined. I'm lazy. Right? So what we want to notice is like, what's the pattern?

Like what, why were you able to succeed for four days? And then what happened on day five? What happened on day four? So I am a failure. As you look at the pattern, oh, like, you know, my mom called me and like yelled at me because, you know, she thought I was a terrible person. And on day five, I ate whatever. I broke my diet. Or I stayed up too late playing video games.

And I was like three in the morning. I got the munchies. Or my friends came over and we all got high and then I got the munchies. Right? So like as you point out the patterns and things, this is important because the responsibility of the success or the failure no longer is in the person. It has to do with the actions or the environment. And then what happens is as you guys like point out these patterns instead of, oh, you're just,

you're lazy and you suck at life. Oh, like that's interesting. seems like you're able to diet fine unless you're smoking pot. What do you think about that? And then what we kind of get to is like then we're going to kind of enter the realm of motivational interviewing. What's more important? Dieting or getting high? And then what you'll uncover is actually getting high is more important because I have anxiety. And so then what they're actually choosing, they don't realize this, right? They're like, oh, I just suck. But what they're actually choosing is dieting versus anxiety or dieting versus social interaction. And it's like, well, no wonder

you don't diet. And once you say that to them, it's like a light bulb goes off. Oh, it's not just because I'm an idiot. It's like, oh, there's an actual cost. And then you can work on clarifying the intent and you can overcome the resistance and then they'll actually die. Right? You can start to set appropriate goals. The goal is not to diet because as long as you're, friends are coming over and you're getting high, there's no point in diet. But this is what they do, right? They focus on the goal. They're like, I need to lose weight. I need a diet. And then they beat themselves up when they fail, whereas they don't realize that the reason they're failing is because they're getting high and getting the munchies. So if you really want to succeed, what you have to focus

on is setting limits around marijuana use and like seeing those friends. Or you need to focus on getting sober first. Or what you want to do is conclude, hey, I'm not willing to do that. I like my friends and I like getting high. So it's cool. So then like, let's forget about dieting and they're and then pick something else that you want to work on. Right? And then if you say, okay, then let's forget about dieting. What are they going to do? They're going to resist that. Absolutely.

Right? What are they going to say? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, I want to do that. And then, so when they say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what comes next? I don't want to give it up. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't want to give. up dieting.

What the fuck? That's where motivation comes from. You have done your job as a coach. Because they came in saying, I want to diet, but I don't want to diet. And now, through this verbal jiu-jitsu,

which is what most of like these MI techniques are, they're telling you, I don't want to give up dieting. Hold on a second. I'm not ready to give up on that goal. Well, and, and, you know, don't show them.

Don't show them that you've tricked them into being motivated. got to be sneaky. And then you're like, wait, why don't you want to give it up? Help me understand that. Ooh, clarification of intent. Reinforcing stuff is they start to voice it. They start to tell you, well, it's important to me because of this, this, this.

All of those statements are going to build motivation. Right? What about dieting is important to you? Because, and this is where, like, it all ties together. Desires, values. The pot is up here. What do you care about? Right?

And as you have that conversation, you're going to move them from here to here. You'll see that? Beautiful. Okay. All right. So the last thing that we're going to kind of end up with is remember that this is a high-level kind of principle. That your job as a coach is to be the buddi for your clients. Right?

When they're in session with you, Buddha is going to be stronger than Manas and a humkhar. And generally speaking, when we see positive behavioral change, it's when the buddi rises to the surface. And so this is where like we also go back to like Vidya versus Nyan. And then also like explicit versus implicit memory. Because as you're asking these kinds of questions and pointing these things out to them, they're going to be having like revelations. And they're going to start like you're going to argue with them like,

hey man, I think you should stop dieting because it seems like social interaction and like hanging out with your friends is really important to you. They're like, no, no, no. I don't want to do that. And I'm like, all right. Explain to me why. Like, is it social interaction important to you? Yeah, but dieting blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, if I diet like then I'll be more confident dating. And so then it kind of comes down to and then you kind of like, you know, lay out a specific goal, which is, you know, the next time your friends want to come over, I think what you really have to ask yourself is what's more important to you? Seeing my friends now are like recognizing that I'm taking one step towards like being confident myself so I can find a romantic partner. What's more important to you as a person? And once you kind of get down that track and you put the choice to them, you put the cost to them, they'll start to make the right choice. Questions?

Going back to one of the things in a ham car when we were talking about reluctance, it sounded a lot like that was reluctance is where the barrier between what they know and need to know is? Yeah. I would say so when I think about know and need to know I don't really think about reluctance I think about that's your job as a coach

right so that's that that's buddi that's the buddhi gap so when you talk to someone like y'all may know this even people who are like watching stream will understand this that like people can be stuck and from the outside you can see exactly what they need to do the problem is that if you go from like where you are

where they are to where they need to go, they can't make that jump. Right? You just need to stop drinking every day. Easy. Then all your problems will be fixed. So that knowledge gap is kind of where you use reflective listening. Like there may be resistance right there,

but as you use these kinds of questions, you'll start to move them along the gap. The issue about reluctance is a way to access what their resistance is. And it's like a question that kind of important. powers them. So the reason you want to say like, okay, what's your reluctance? It's asking that question is exploring that barrier. Does that make sense? Because they haven't really thought about it. Or what they've thought about is in one direction, but they've missed something else.

Because generally speaking, if they found the right answer, they probably would have changed. All of our clients have made progress on their own in a thousand different dimensions. And so if you think about, you know, why do they get stuck in some places and don't get stuck in other places, those are the places that they need you as a coach to help them sort of sort through. Is that help? Okay, other questions. I was wondering when a client's kind of going back and forth between like, oh, I want to do something, oh, I don't want to do something, I want to give it up, I don't. Is there any value in kind of pointing that out to them that like they're kind of flip-flopping between it?

Absolutely, right? So that's the whole point of working with ambivalence. So the value of that is, first of all, there's like a lot of like, shame. So if I set a goal for myself and I don't understand why I can't accomplish it, I end up beating myself up. It affects my humkar, right? If it solidifies enough, then I start to think of myself as someone who's like an idiot, can't do anything. And then that in turn is going to affect all my neuroscientific calculations of success and make me prone to not do it. So as you start to point out to them, oh, there's like actually a good reason to not diet, right?

Because like smoking pot is like really important for your anxiety. as you kind of point that out to them, there's a lot of subtle advantages. The first is that it'll break apart the cycle of, oh, I suck and therefore I'm a failure and stuff like that, so it'll start to chip away at it because you're not stupid. It's just a choice between A and B. And we'll get to this in goal setting in a second.

So human beings respond a lot better to choices than direction. So if you want a human to like choose, like to actually do something, it's good to make a choice. right if you want and we'll kind of get to this where like if someone wants to get in shape and you say okay you need to go to the gym three days a week that is actually science has shown us research has shown us that that is not as effective as asking someone hey if you want to get into shape like what do you think would be the most effective working on your diet or exercising and they'll say okay I think some kind of exercise would be like the best place to start okay so if it's some kind of

exercise do you think it would be useful like do something at home or like would you want to like go somewhere and kind of just focus on exercise? And then it'll be really interesting because someone may say, well, I'll never do it at home. So I should probably go somewhere. And if you have that same damn conversation with that person and you say, hey, I think you should go to the gym, they won't go. But if they come to it through their own reasoning, because then if they say like, oh, I should go to the gym because I won't exercise at home. and then you talk about going to the gym and their social anxiety

when they go to the gym, they've already set themselves up for the advantage of going to the gym. So you're one leg up on the barrier already because it's coming from them. Does that make sense? Sorry if I went a little bit off track there. But I think absolutely playing with that ambivalence

is crucial. Pointing out that negative, pointing out the cost is very important. There's even an element of like positive of humkar there. So when you sort of of frame a question to someone and you say, you know, there's advantage for, there's option A or option B.

And then on a given day, if they choose the right option, they start to build like a positive sense of identity. I'm someone that can move towards my goals. I'm someone that's able to actually make a change in my life because I made the right choice. I'm doing this because I care about it. I'm doing it because it's my duty. I'm doing it because it's my Dharma. And then that actually builds their confidence and then adjust the behavioral action equation in the right way. Okay. Other questions. Okay. So let me summarize. All right. So today we talked about resistance. So yesterday we covered intent, which is clarifying like the energy inputs or why they want to do something. And anytime we try to do something, there's going to be like something that keeps us from engaging in

that action. That's what we call resistance. We went over signs of resistance like statements clients will make, which sound logical, but will be like self-defeating statements that sort of signal to you that they're not actually motivated to act. This is stuff like I want to, but. So, buts, by the way, are like a prime example. This is a great idea, but, you know, dot, dot, dot. So I'm not that. I can't do that. Other people can do that. I'm not able to. It'll be a waste of time. What if it doesn't work? You know, like, I don't think I'm ready. I'll do it once. You know, all of those are signs of resistance. So as you kind of hear those statements, start to dig into them.

And as you dig into them, you'll discover that there's stuff going on in terms of monas, samskar, or humkhar. Either it's an identity that they've built up, either it's some kind of emotional block or some kind of pattern that, like, they've learned, right, where it's like triggering in them and then they, like, have difficulty engaging in the action. As you uncover that stuff, you're going to extend the barrier of their understanding. You're going to point out discrepancies. You're going to point out conflicts.

And in that process, you'll start to move them towards like motivation. They'll start to make discoveries about themselves. As they discover some of these things, what we kind of went to, you guys remember, the fact of I am a failure versus I believe I'm a failure, which actually causes me to fail. You'll start to move in that direction. So there's like neuronal rewiring that goes on. As you start to do that kind of stuff, as you start to ask questions, as you start to extend the barrier of their understanding, as you start to model the right kind of behavior. as you start to model inquiry instead of judgment, then they'll start to actually naturally move in the right direction,

and you'll kind of get them prime to set up the right kind of goal and the right kind of action. Okay? Questions? Awesome. So y'all are welcome to step out. We're going to hang around for about 15 minutes. I'm going to answer questions on stream. Do you guys want to stick around and answer questions?

You don't want to step out. I'm indifferent, by the way. Okay. So questions from chat. Okay. So what would a coach do if they ask what's your reluctance? And the client says, I don't know. First thought is what does I don't know mean? But then that might also lead to an I don't know. So how would you approach that with a client? Jake, when you say what does I don't know mean? Help us understand what the different things that I don't know could mean. Sure. So there's like confliction. So like I want to go to the gym. this and it's like, I don't know. I don't know what to do. The second is like, I feel stupid if I give an answer so I can't say anything. So I don't know. And the other is like they generally just have no

idea. Yeah. So that's a really important point. So like, I don't know is a catch-all phrase that actually means different things. The first is I don't know can mean conflict. So for example, like, let's just use the example of like, what do you want to eat for dinner tonight? Do you want tie or do you want pizza? I don't know. It doesn't mean that I don't know. It means that there's a part of me that wants tie and there's a part of me that wants pizza, right? The second thing, the second reason we say, I don't know is because we're judging our response. So like, we're not happy with what we're going to say, so we say, I don't know. And then third thing that Jake pointed out is sometimes people just don't know. So I think it's exploring the I don't know

that then helps people know. And that's a prime example of the barrier of understanding. You'll get that? And then like once you clarify that, like, oh, they're like, oh, I'm actually conflicted. It's not that I don't know. It's that I have good reasons to want both things. Great. So how do I trust myself when I keep failing my goals? I think this goes back to the idea of like judging yourself based on the outcomes.

I mean, in the exact same situation, we can argue you're still trying. Right? If you have repetitive goals that you keep attempting, then that's positive progress because you're still attempting. Right. So there's a reframe there. Any other perspectives? How would you all help a client who comes in and says, how do I trust myself when I keep failing

my goals? So one option is like, you may keep failing, but at least you keep trying. And if we really think about who's more likely to succeed in the end, the person who fails once or the person who keeps failing. it's interesting, right? I think I would explore how they're coming up with their goals and like what makes them keep failing at these goals. And like what makes them not trust themselves and maybe try and reiterate what goals they have. Right.

Well said. So it's exploring. This is all about extending the barrier of understanding. So there's the last one that I end up with. How do I trust myself when I keep failing my goals? Jake, what are you thinking? thinking what I'm thinking. Yeah, I'm like, why is how much you trust yourself based on whether or not you succeed in a goal?

Great. Right. So what's the relationship between trust and failing? And I even go as far as to say that what's the cause and what's the effect? Do you fail to trust yourself because you keep failing? Or is it the lack of trust you have in yourself that causes you to fail? Right. So this we see a lot with clients.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And they confuse one with the other. Do I believe I'm a failure because I keep failing? Or do I keep failing because I believe I'm a failure? And so that revelation can be incredibly empowering for people. Oh, crap. Like, I'm setting myself up to fail. Great answers, by the way.

Okay. I'm trying to find a good question. Oh, here's a good one. Should I get coaching even though I should be getting more professional help? What do you all think? Why not both? Yeah. Other responses?

I think Steve has captured it, but I'm just curious if other people would like to add to that. I don't know exactly how it approaches, but I feel like they already know what that is that they want to do. I'd point that out in some way. Absolutely. So what do you think this person should do, Eli? what do you think they want to do? I'd say it seems like you want to get professional help. So do you think they should get professional help?

Yeah, I guess if they think so. Right? Yeah. So it's should I get coaching. There's a should. Even though I should be getting more professional help. Like there it is. There's the intent conflict.

Two shoulds in one sentence. Right? So it's like, the other question, there is why don't you get professional help? Even though I should be getting more professional help than what's stopping you from getting professional help? Like, what's up with that?

You know? I love these questions because they're really good examples of exactly what we deal with in coaching. So here's another one. How do I make my first coaching session smoother? Except that it's going to be awkward and you kind of have to build a rapport. Other responses? Great.

I'm curious why they expected not to go smoothly. Right? or why they expect it to go smoothly or why it has to go smooth in the first place. Like, think about this. The first time you do something, like, what's your expectation about it going smoothly? Just let it be rocky.

You'll figure it out. Your coach will figure it out. Why is the responsibility on you to make your first coaching session smoother? You're the client. You're just supposed to show up. If it's not smooth, that's the coach's problem. It's not on you.

You don't have to do anything. You just have to show up, right? They're the professionals. It's great. If I know my coach is doing verbal jiu-jitsu on me, will that change how I respond to emotional interviewing? If someone knows that you're doing motivational interviewing on you, does it change the way that you respond?

No. We talked about that with the placebo thing yesterday. Yeah. Assuming there's belief there, I guess. Jake, what do you think? Yeah, so I don't know how right this is, but I'm hearing like a bit of resistance to the verbal jiu-jitsu. So if you're like realizing what's happening, you're like, I'm not pulling for this. Yes.

Yeah. Go for it. Eli. I was going to say like kind of along what Jake's saying that like noticing, pointing out to them like, oh, what is it that makes you want to resist this? You know, like, I'm trying to help you or like, this is the goal of this. and like, what makes you want to resist it? Sometimes you can get them to kind of like throw themselves into it a little bit too and say like, oh, here I am resisting you.

That can be really helpful. So oddly enough, like knowing the techniques that your coach is doing is not going to negatively impact your coaching experience. In fact, I don't know if you all have had this observation, but like as clients learn to do what you do, how does that affect your coaching relationship? It's a lot smoother. It was awesome. It's fantastic, right? Because now instead of the coach doing it, both y'all are doing it.

And y'all are both working towards a common goal. So what I tend to find is that, so I'll have clients. So when I work with clients like a long time, they'll start to say things like, I knew you were going to ask that question. And then what I find is that they're doing half of the work that I was doing. So we just move twice as fast. It's actually great. Now, sometimes, as Eli pointed out, there's a resistance to it. They're like, aha, I'm not going to let you trick me. and it's like, okay. So if you don't want to work towards your goals, we don't have to. Right? It's not about trickery.

It's really not. And that's why we explain it. In fact, even if you look at group coaching, like, what do we do the first four weeks of group? We teach them how to do mental jiu-jitsu. Absolutely. Right? And what does that do once you teach the group how to do verbal jiu-jitsu? They practice on each other.

Yep. And all of them know. they're practicing. And I don't know if you all remember, but when we role play, right, and you know that someone is doing like reflective listening or open-ended questions or whatever with you. Like, you still, the real emotions still come out, right? Like, I don't know if you all remember that. But so it still works. It's kind of interesting. All right. So we've got time for one more. Anything that you all want to just share or say? You don't have to. Well, I'm digging for another question, but I just wanted to give you.

all a chance to share thoughts if you want to. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate the additional training. Like, just helping me. So thanks. You're very welcome. You know, one thing I guess I'd say real quick is it seems like a lot of the questions kind of have a lot of, it's like there's a lot of negative anticipation of like what could happen in coaching. And I would say that in my experience, a lot of times that gets dispelled pretty quickly over the course of the few sessions. Well said. So I'm noticing that too. There's a lot of like, what if this happens and what if this happens and like what if I, does it like I need to make it smooth and like you'll see that. You guys see what Eli's saying? It's a really good observation that all these questions. And I don't think I'm, maybe I'm selecting for them. But, you know, I think there's a lot of them. Okay, last one. What do you do if you don't feel like you're in control of your reluctance?

That sounds like something the coach should help you work on. That sounds like a person is taking too much pressure on the level of relationship. Control is also a weird word to use there because we don't really control our emotions. They just happen to us and then we choose to engage with them or not. that's the aha moment. So like you'll see in that question, it's a question that's setting you up to fail because if you're like,

no one's in control of their reluctance. If we were getting in control of our reluctance, we wouldn't be reluctant. Right? And so it's like teaching this person, that core concept, that it starts, like there's nothing special. Like, if you're not in control of your reluctance,

that's where everyone begins. Right? It's like, that's perfectly acceptable. and why are you trying to control it? It's how you react to it, how you respond to it, that ultimately is going to determine your success or failure. But if you're getting caught up with not being in control of it, then you're like, oh my God, I'm doing this wrong.

No, you're doing it just like every other human being who's ever done it on the planet. But you get so caught up in the fact that I'm not in control of my reluctance that you don't actually learn how to deal with it. So this is another thing that we kind of do is more implicit at this point, but we sort of made it explicit early on in terms of our coach curriculum. is that we're not trying to control, right? We're trying to make choices. We're not trying to like, it's not like a win or lose or like absolute control versus like that's not how it works. It's,

it's muddy. It's messy. And once you kind of acknowledge that, once you actually surrender the idea of control, once you acknowledge that, hey, I'm not in control of this and sometimes the reluctance is going to win, but sometimes I'm going to win too. That's when you start to make positive progress. Okay. Last question. How? common is resistance? Uh, universal? Yep. Yeah.

I don't think I've encountered a client without resistance. I don't know that I've encountered a human without resistance. Right? So these are fundamental aspects, right? So this is what, yeah, I mean, it's common. So everything that I think people are concerned about, I think Eli pointed out well that, you know, people are concerned about this stuff. It's totally fine.

Like, these are all valid concerns that happen. I think we're, you know, I'm confident that that, you know, I'm confident that that you all can handle it. All right. So thank you all very much. So we're going to do goal setting and how to take action tomorrow and that'll kind of wrap up our goal setting and motivation curriculum. You know, we'll probably have office hours and case review times and things like that. So if you all have particular questions, you know, you're welcome to kind of bring them up there. We'll try to compile this stuff into a manual for you all as well that has a lot more like details in terms of like exercises and specific guidance in terms of like you know almost like

line by line like how to understand different kinds of clients like different um somsacres that may be related to failure and not trying and things like that as well as um particular dialogue trees that y'all may find useful to help people achieve some of these goals all right so thank you all very much for coming and we'll see y'all tomorrow