HealthyGamerGG - Moving Forward ft. Albert Chang

Episode Date: November 14, 2020

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You're going to have to forgive me. I'm a little bit flustered today, and it's been chaotic. Apparently, I doxed myself earlier, and then there's the van. That tends to happen sometimes. Yep. And, you know, then I saw my wife enter the van with a stranger, and then I was a little bit confused. So then I just literally got up and ran out to my front yard and left stream hanging. So I'm going to need a minute to compose myself.

And maybe we can talk about my feelings today. does that happen often? Do you ever get reverse therapies on your own streams? No, but it's the first time for everything, man. And given what appears to be your vast technical expertise and manual dexterity, maybe you can help me out for once. Yeah. Do you want to see something while you compose yourself?

Absolutely, man. I think that'd be awesome. have you seen a lot of magic or anything of that sort in your lifetime um sort of but i don't know about a lot i don't think i've seen a lot i've seen some okay um so this i guess this is more of an experiment this is not really like a trick um so like i've recently been getting into chess and it's something that like i personally enjoy a lot and it's just a lot people find it anxiety-inducing i find it kind of and relaxing, knowing that, like, you know, everything that happens is kind of just between you and

someone else, and it's all, like, within, like, your own capabilities and your own control. And so there's, like, different, like, time formats, you know, like, there's, like, classical, which is super long. And then you have, like, ultra bullet, which is just, like, you have a minute to just, like, make all your moves. And if you run out of time, you lose. And so the thing that I'm fascinated about that is, like, the more time you have, the more I guess opportunities you have to kind of like think out like the best move.

But when you have no time, you're kind of resorting to your your instincts and like patterns that you already know. And so in a way, if you know someone really well, you can like predict what they're going to do like when you like shorten that time or you add a time pressure to it. And so I've been like really fascinating with that idea as of late. And I've been working on something that I think speaks to that. Cool. So if you would indulge me for second, I'm going to bring out a giant timer.

Yeah. Okay. And so basically we're going to create a card under some time, time constraints. And I'm just going to ask you two like binary questions like yes or no type of things or red or blue, that kind of deal. But just to practice, I don't want you to think about your answers. You just say the first thing that comes to mind. So we're going to do some unrelated things. All right. Pirates or ninjas? Pirates. Let's see. Some ninjas. How about apples or oranges? Apples. Okay, interesting. And then do one more. Max PC?

PC. All right. We're on Twitter, so it makes sense. Okay. So here I'm going to have a timer, and I'm just going to ask you a bunch of card-related question. Okay.

And we're going to, I need you to use your imagination for this. Okay. Okay. And ready, set. Go. In every deck of cards, there's two types of cards, numbers and pictures. What would you like? Numbers or pictures?

Numbers. Numbers? All right. So we're going to take the numbers and we're going to remove down the deck, leaving just the pictures. And there's the Jack, the Queen, and the King. Which one of those would you like? Just name one.

King. King and then name a suit Spades Spades The King of Spades And it took us 24 seconds to generate that card Okay

And so I find it curious that you end up on the king of spades So you notice that this deck Has been sitting here the entire time, right? Yep And I haven't touched it at all, I haven't gone near it Yeah, that's correct Yep All right, so I'm going to pick up for the first time.

Obviously, like normally I would just hand this to you if we're to do this in person. So right now we have two pieces of information. We have the King of Spades, and we also have the time it took to generate that card. Number 24. And so if I count down 24 cards from the top, hopefully if I came into that kind of attuned to your wavelength, the king of space should be at the 24th position. Okay. All right.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, seven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, sixteen, eighteen,

nineteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty one, twenty-two. This is the twenty-third card, so, hopefully that's right the 24th card awesome man that was really cool thank you all right do you feel more at ease now we're ready to yeah so what was why the pirates apples and ninjas or is that i just wanted to like sometimes it's like hard to like because there's a time in

aspect sometimes people are not ready to like answer immediately they'll like think a little bit so this just to prime people to just say the first thing as soon as they hear it. So that's really interesting. I'm just trying to think about whether we should do a spoilerina. No, no, no, no. Okay, no spoiler rena. Okay. But that's really cool.

I really enjoyed your trick, Albert. Thank you. Honestly, I'm impressed because I can almost duplicate it. The one thing that I can. can't do is show the cards face up. That's what I can't figure out. So if the deck is face down, I think I could duplicate your trick. But I don't think I could do it. I don't know how you did it face up. That has me thinking. Yeah, anyway, that's fantastic, dude. I really like it. Thank you. So it sounds like you spend your time with creative pursuits?

mostly yeah well i would say now i'm mostly just someone who i basically go on youtube i go on reddit and i find like a video of something that i'm like wow this is really cool and i will think myself i wonder how one goes about learning this and then i'll start doing research i'll go down the youtube rabbit hole watch every video on something and then find like the really niche subcultures and the communities that surround it and then try to like immerse myself in it. And so in a way, I'm more of like a collector of hobbies rather than like an expert at anything.

Sure. I just like knowing how things are done and kind of like how far you can push a skill or a skill or a knowledge set. And you say, use the word now. So does that imply that's, it's changed for you recently? I would say it's something that I've always held at the back of my mind. Like, even like as a kid, like, I was like really into a lot of different things. But I was sort of raised in a way where like it's good to have hobbies.

It's good to be well-rounded for college applications. But like, no, you can't make a career doing this, you know, because that's all it is. It's just a hobby. And so I guess for the longest time, like I just didn't think it was like worth putting in more effort into getting better at this stuff because there wasn't any kind of financial gain. It's just something that I would do for myself. And essentially, like, when things didn't work out in college and, like, I didn't end up going down a traditional path, I still, like, well, music was the thing that I was studying or ended up switching to in college.

And I'm like, well, this is kind of difficult. And I don't know if I know if I'm ever going to be good enough to, like, be in an orchestra because I play the violin. And so then I switched over to like filmmaking. And then eventually it landed in streaming, but I didn't really like know what my niche was in streaming. Like I play games, but like above average, but not good enough to be viewed as like a gaming streamer. And like my music was good, but not good enough to be a music streamer. I think magic was the one thing that I kind of stood out. But even I think when you do like any performance art related thing on Twitter,

which you're always going to hit a wall where when you've oversaturated your audience with everything that you can do, then people lose interest because they've seen every trick you've done. You can only do so many variations of it before you will tap yourself dry. There's only finite amount of things that exist in the magic resource universe. and I guess as of late now I'm like well if I just make my passion for learning and like getting into all these weird things my hobby like maybe or like my my job like maybe this is something that I could see myself doing five 10 20 years down the line versus like only for like a couple years I see so it's almost like you're taking the acquisition of new skills and exploring a new

hobby as your constant. Yeah. And I think it's something that I've always done, but I never thought that it could be something that I could do for a living. Yeah. I mean, I think that sounds really cool because I think it actually mirrors a lot about, you know, what people's experience on the internet is, which is that we get relatively excited about something.

And then we kind of dig into it for a while and then we sort of move on to the next thing. Um, and, and that sounds really cool. And, uh, so Albert, yeah, man, that, that sounds cool. Is there something in particular you wanted to talk about today or something that maybe I can help you with? Um, I say, I like wrote down a bunch of stuff. Give me a second. I just have like a list. Nothing like in particular. I think a lot of it is like I have a fairly, um, grounded stance and kind of where I'm, position like the whole grand scheme of things.

Some of it is just like, okay, like these things make me feel bad and I know why it makes me feel bad, but the solutions don't seem to be like, it's like I'm trying to do the things that I know I'm supposed to do, but it's like difficult regardless. So maybe you can help me out with that. Yeah, I didn't understand what this sentence meant. You said, I have a grounded stance in the way that I... Like where I am, like where I exist. It's like I know kind of like in, in I guess like the streaming world and like the content creation world, like I know where my position is and all of that.

And it's like I don't have any. So here, I'm trying to figure out like the best way for me to just try to clarify my sentiment. Tell me what your position is in the streaming world. So as like someone who used to be part of an online streaming community and is no longer part of that and is not likely to be kind of welcome in that like close-knit group of people, it's like now I'm just trying to kind of figure out like what I can do as like a solo entity. And then, but what I've been struggling with both kind of like business wise but also like from like a personal. human fulfillment level is it's hard to stream

when you, like you are the only person like in like you are the only person responsible for your content. I think unlike YouTube videos where you have a lot of time to ideate and you have like editing and a lot of external things that you can do to spice up your content.

What streaming, you're doing long hours and if you're not gaming, like you're essentially trying to market your life and like your interpersonal relationships and that's like what people tune into what and that's someone who like doesn't really have that anymore and also knowing that there there's a lot of like people that I would normally want to reach out to or be friends with that I feel like are cut off to me it's been like a struggle trying to figure out how I can sustain myself and also

kind of dealing with the loneliness of being kind of like on my own and doing my thing. Yeah. And I think, yeah. I mean, Albert, it sounds to me so I just want to comment for a second about drama. So like we're not really here and I just want to make it clear to everyone that we're not here to talk about drama, right? That's not really

what I care about. And if that's what people are looking for, they can go look elsewhere. But what I'm hearing from you is actually a story of rejection. What I'm hearing is a story of being alone, of being part of something and now no longer being a part of it. It's almost like, I mean, when I hear you talk, what I'm envisioning is like a wolf that's like no longer part of the pack. And what I'm almost hearing is like a sense of like, you know, how does the lone wolf survive? and it sounds really challenging for you and you're trying to figure that out. I mean, that's what I'm kind of feeling between the lines.

And I'm not saying that from a drama perspective. It's just like, I think that's, you know. Yeah, I think that that's fair assessment. And I think it's like particularly difficult for me because I've always been a very extroverted person. Even though like my demeanor is not like the typical like loud, outgoing. archetype that you normally think of when you think of like extrovert but I've always been someone who

like values friendships and relationships and being like being surrounded by people and I think a lot of my struggles comes with the clash of that sentiment but also feeling like I want to be somebody as well at the same time like I want to be recognized for what I have to offer and but I'm also you know but I struggle with wanting to use the people that I'm around and making them happy,

often at the cost of my own personal ambitions. And so I guess these two ideas always clash with one another. What do you mean by that, that you want to make the people around you happy, but at the cost of your own personal ambition? I'm like the most conflict-averse person, like ever. Like, if someone wants me to do something, I'll do it. Even if I don't necessarily, like, even if it's not good for me or I don't have the time for it or I don't have the resources for it. Because, like, I'd rather see them, like, succeed and do well and be happy than, like, do what's best for me in the moment.

And I think I've always thought that, like, oh, I can do all this. And because, like, that's just the kind of person I am. And, like, took pride in being someone who could, like, shoulder it a lot. And like as of late, you know, in the past year or so, I realized like that's definitely it's not true. It's something that I've told myself. Like, it's like a false identity I've given to myself, you know. I think I've, I'm just really good at like repressing and internalizing feelings, like over like long, long periods of time.

Okay. And some of this just stems from just the way that I've always dealt with conflict as a child. You know, it's just like people. People won't be mad or won't be upset if I disagree with it or do whatever they tell me. And so that's, and it's gotten me to like where I am to degree, right? So I'm like, if it didn't, if it works, you know, why stop doing it? And I know that's obviously not a healthy mindset or not the way you should approach everything. But Albert, can I think that for a second?

Yeah, go for it. So my first thought is, boy, you've been doing a lot of thinking, haven't you? that's all I've had time to do so that's all I've had time to do do do I detect a little bit of frustration in that sentence um maybe not frustration but just kind of acceptance um you know I've had a lot of cynicism I took a year cynicism maybe that's a better yeah cynical except like yeah this is this is just how things are this is it be like this sometimes and I'm just trying to make the most out of it. Yeah.

And there's a lot, right? You've thought, what are you feeling right now? At this right moment? It's not catharsis. I feel like I'm saying things that I've said or that I've like thought about and talked about a lot, you know, privately to a lot of like close friends and family. So it's not something that I feel like this is a revelation for me. I do a lot of journaling.

So what, what am I feeling? It's neither, it's like very neutral. Like, I don't feel, like, it doesn't make me feel particularly good, but I also don't feel bad for, like, saying this. So it's, yeah. So sometimes we can perceive neutral. Sometimes it's neutral. And sometimes what we perceive as neutral is actually something that's more like bittersweet. Right?

So bittersweet isn't really neutral, but are you feeling neutral? neutral or are you feeling bittersweet? I'm saying more like bittersweet. That's what I'm feeling from you. Right? There's hurt there, but there's also positivity.

And it's interesting, but I can't tell if your face is really neutral or I'm reading into it or it's the lighting. But I actually see a fair amount of bitterness just right behind your eyes for lack of a better term. I take off my glasses. Will I hope?

No, no, leave on. I don't think we need to see it. It's okay. So let me ask you. So, Albert, here's, so first of all, I think, you know, for lack of better term, I'm going to say I'm impressed or maybe excited or optimistic, some combination of like when I see how much you've thought about things and how you've already started to piece things together, I feel good about it because I feel like you've done a lot of the work that I do like I start doing with people. And so you've already actually done chapter one. And for example, you've recognized that you're conflict adverse. You've recognized that you started to become conflict diverse in childhood.

You've recognized that that has worked for you in some ways, that it's an adaptation, but that at times, it's become a maladaptation. And I actually have, I think, I know this is going to sound weird, but I think I have more hope for your future than you do, which is weird because we haven't really talked about how much hope for your future you have. And I think the reason that I have more hope for your future than you do is that I think there are some options that feel closed to you, which I don't think are close to you. and then maybe we'll work our way there maybe i'm right maybe i'm wrong i mean i don't really know

but and and so you know if you want to steer the conversation you're more than welcome to if there's a particular thing that you want to learn how to you know talk like get over or whatever that's fine otherwise i i've got a gigantic pile of questions to ask oh fire away i'm you know i don't like talking about myself that much like it or yeah I want to know more about myself. Why don't you like talking about yourself? I just don't like making things about me. It just feels...

I don't think it's my place. I feel like people don't care, so I don't want to, like, bother them with, like, inanity of my life. How long have you felt that way? Maybe since, like, middle school, I think. Yeah. Can you tell me about middle school?

I'm trying to remember. I think there's like two things going on here. I think one thing is, I think I was always a very good child. You know, like straight A student, wasn't all the extracurriculars. I was in band, orchestra, tennis team. Your parents must have been very proud. They were very proud, but I think because I did everything well, there was like my there was like nothing to criticize me on so like my dad would end up

criticizing me on like the most like tiny things like why don't you cap their toothpaste after you finish brushing your teeth like can you like I'm very flat foot it's like you know you should think more about picking up your feet and I'm getting these huge arguments with my father like why it doesn't matter I'm doing everything else right and then and I think that was the moment at least personally aware, I hated just like getting into yelling just my dad and I would cry like every day for I think two years. And then suddenly just like turned off where it's just like I just stopped crying altogether for the next like 15 years. And then in school I was like mildly bullied. Like I don't know. Like this could just be my version of the vent. Like now that I'm older, I'm like maybe this is not

what actually happened, but I just thought this was and it became like such a huge part of the narrative of like who I was as a person. But there was this girl who was like on the cheerleading team. And you know, I was like very, very scrawny, not athletic. I was like the last in P all the time, you know, and my school was very athletic. I think had I gone to a more normal school, it wouldn't be this case. But I was running six minute miles and I was the slowest guy in my class as an eighth grader. And so I I had a lot of like self-consciousness about my appearance and my physical ability. And so there's this girl who would always just like,

who claimed that she like was in love with me, but was very, I guess my perception was she was very out of my league. And so every day when I would go to a homeroom, she would like hide behind like a door and like jump out and like hug me. And then it just made me feel very like that I was, I was being made fun of in a way that I couldn't, like, show or resist.

Because, like, oh, it's like, why are you complaining about this? You know, it's like an attractive girl was, like, hugging you and saying she's in love with you. But then she would, like, call, like, she would, like, find my phone number and, like, call my phone or at my home phone. This is back before I had a cell phone. And then, you know, like, I had to hear, like, laughing in the background. So, like, I'm pretty sure it was just, like, make me feel uncomfortable.

And so I think at that point, like, I just never. I felt like I was like someone that people would like want to be around or it's like I was always someone that people kind of had in their group so that they could like make fun of. I'm not someone who other people want to be around. And I think that's partially why like I felt like the desire to like get into so many things because I wanted to like provide value whether it's like music or magic or like any number of things. Hmm. So what I'm hearing from you is that, you know, if you could bring something to the table, then people, then you would be worth caring about.

Yeah, I think that's the case. Because I just didn't have any confidence in, like, my personality or, you know, my... Are you okay? Are you okay just sitting for a second and just feeling what you're feeling? Or do you want me to distract you? I'm good. I like this feeling. What's this feeling? I think, I think just being able to, like, share something that has been bothered me for a while. So that feels good. And what bothers you about it? I think it's something that I just like being aware of, like, how much I, like, don't like myself.

So, Albert, what's it like to be someone who other people don't want to be around and to be cut off from the pack? Sorry, it's heavy. Yep. I'm going to start crying in a second. Don't a lot of people start crying on this show? Do you do you cry sympathetically? I mean, I cry. I don't know about other people.

Yeah. It's lonely for sure. And a lot of it has to do with like guilt, not feeling like, like I can feel bad about my situation. That makes sense because it's like self-induced. So. Okay, Albert.

I need you to, I need you to let me know if you need. So I'm going to tell you something that we call coming up for air. Okay. So, you know, sometimes we're going to get into heavy places. And then, you know, if you need to come up for air, you let me know and I'll, like, break the tension. So we'll, you know. Okay. Is there like a, like a fake word?

Like, I need air. I mean, so my standard with usually men is, is we make a dick joke. Okay. Because usually penises are funny. Okay. And so I guess our safe word is going to be dick joke. Okay. But you just, you know, you let me know.

I mean, I can see that you're able to tolerate some of this. And I think we're making progress. But, you know, at the same time, it doesn't have to be, how can I say this? I imagine that you think that you are someone who has to be able to. to tolerate everything, right? And you can't, you can't come up for error. You won't let yourself come up for error. Because not coming up for air is the right thing to do.

Yeah. Right? So just notice that, like even that. And so learn how to forgive yourself for not being able to do all this. And so I think maybe I'm going to have to use the safe word, because I don't know if you're going to. feel worthy enough to say, hey, actually, this is too much for me. I think the thing that I struggle with is, or like regarding this particular

ideas, a lot of like the kind of things I'm going through right now, it's like I feel like I don't have, like, I'm not privy to those to. to it's like I'm not allowed to feel sadness or pain towards my own situation. Why not? Because like, I mean, because like I'm the one that created it, right? And so it's like, you know, it's like, well, if you didn't fuck up, then you wouldn't like be in a situation. So like stop complaining kind of deal. Yeah.

And so like I just and I don't, so that's why I don't like talking about it because I'm like, no one wants to hear someone talk about like how you know shitty they feel because of something that they did do like other people. Yeah, what I'm what I'm hearing you say is that you're not allowed to suffer because it's your fault. Well, that's how I feel at least. Like I know it's it's not necessarily like it shouldn't be the case. You know, I think everyone how do you know that? Where do you say from? just things I read, my own therapy sessions. It's just like, I think lived human experience is imperfect.

And we're all going to make mistakes. So if no one's allowed to feel bad for like anything, then that's just a very sad experience of being alive. Yeah, so that sounds philosophically wonderful to me. Tell me why doesn't any of that shit apply to you? I think a lot of it ties into just like being like an internet figure and like having so much of like what I say or what I feel being judged through like the lenses of like thousands of people. You know, it's like there's no winning, right? It's like if I, you know, if I don't, if I'm emotional, then it's like I'm trying to get sympathy.

I'm trying to garner sympathy. And then that's manipulative. And if I, like, don't emot, and I'm just very, like, doic and very, you know, like, business. Then you're cold. Then you're cold. And so my solution is just I just don't use it. I just, like, I feel like I can't post anything that isn't, like, inherently valuable or good because people are just going to, like, just, like, me, mommy or shit on me, like, twist whatever I say into, like, the context that they think, you know, it's, like, the most hurtful. And so, like, I know, like, that stuff hurts me, so I just don't use it.

I will only just post my content and I will just, like, not read any of the comments. And then to go about my day until, like, I have something else to be that. Albert, I totally get that I think social media, I would say, amplifies this. And at the same time, I think that you have been taking away your capacity to suffer long before any of these people on the internet. ever showed up. And if we're talking about, you know, really moving forward, it's about finding the origin of these things, right? What we're talking about is like, how does it feel to be the kid that all the other, and forgive me for being a little bit racist here, let me know if this is offensive, you know, that all the other Asian kids hate because you're the kid that when they,

before they go to bed, their parents tell them, why can't you be more like Albert? Yeah. To be I grew up in, yeah, I grew up in Fresno. So I was like one of the only Asian kids actually at the time. So. So my experience being an Indian kid was that, you know, my parents always compared me to the other Indian. It still do. And then the thing that's really bizarre about that is like, I'm like, mom, what, what more do you want? I'm the kid that all the other parents are comparing to now.

Like, and you're still like, you know, I used to. a joke that I'm every Indian parents dream and every Indian kids nightmare. Yeah. And I think I was like that more generally speaking just like like on paper I was like I was like the textbook child, you know? Yeah. And so Albert, what does it feel like to be the textbook child and have your dad. be unhappy with you. What is it like to knowing?

Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. It's like not knowing what you can do to be better. And so it's just like at a loss. And like I think at the time I felt like no matter what I did to like improve, like there would just be something else that was missing. Like there's this never ending list of things that like, why aren't you like better at this

or why aren't you doing this better? And a lot of it wasn't even like, like at this point, it was never about academics. You know, because the academics, like, sure. Before I went to college and where like I realized like that didn't matter as much as I used to think, you know, like I had never gotten anything below like 100 on anything. Because our school offered a lot of extra credit for, you know, kids who like needed it. So like if I got, if I ever got below 100%, I would like be myself up. Like not not like in a self-harm kind of way, but more like. Yeah, emotionally, I would like punish myself.

What would you do to yourself? I don't know. Like I would, sometimes I would not speak for like a week because I was so upset. And what made you upset? That I like made a mistake. And whose fault is it? And so how did you treat yourself when you fucked it up? Albert, you got a 99.

Yeah. Just not happy. Yeah. And it became like a thing where I'd like, then my friends would make fun of me for not getting 100 as well. You know, like I had. And they thought it was in good, but it reinforced. Like they were doing it jokingly.

But then I think for me it reinforced that idea. Mm-hmm. And so when people on the internet say things about you, what does it do to you? I guess it's more like what I know it'll do to me because I really have not read anything. Good. What do you know what you do? I think at least from like,

so what happens is my close friends will like spoon feed me stuff, right? They'll be like, all right, this is like maybe the worst kind of thing people are saying. This is like generally people are like saying these nice things, right? And then because I want to know, like, even if I don't want to know the specifics, I want to know the general sentiment. But usually the stuff that like hurts the most are the, are not the like single and like fuck you or go die. Like those ones, I know it takes a certain kind of person to like be in a place in their lives where like they can type that to like a random nobody that they don't know. Right.

It's like that stuff doesn't bother me at all. It's like the people who are writing like long essays trying to like cycle analyze me from like. the comfort of their own homes. And I think sometimes, like, there's a glints of truth and, like, that stuff hurts. Or the other ones where it's, like, I know it's, like, just straight up false, but it sounds convincing enough that I feel like I'm being misinterpreted. And I think I have this deep fear, not of, like, owning up to my mistakes, but being misunderstood. Or, like, not feeling like people have the wrong impression of me, but believing that to be the case.

And but I know there's nothing I can do or say to like convince them otherwise. It's just like a futile battle. Where did you learn that convincing people who had the wrong impression of you was futile? I'm trying to think about it in my actual day-to-day life. But the internet, I just feel like that's just the general sentiment where if people are determined to hate you, like no matter what you put out, what you say, they're going to feel that way until something in their own life should. I mean, it sounds to me like you're talking about your dad again. You know, not to overly psychoanalyze you because I hate doing that shit, right? Because I'm just envisioning like, you know, like who did you feel you are?

Who did you try to be? And what did your dad see? Right? He just refuses to see like not just straight A's, hundreds across the board, maybe. and then he chooses to pick a fight I mean it's just it's so misunderstood it's so disconnected it's so judged

and then I'd say that somewhere in there your dad would also say things if I had to hypothesize I mean I don't mean to say this is all about your dad but like I mean come on you know like I also said yeah I mean I'd say a lot of things like probably like you knew 90% of what he was saying was like

wrong and like you knew you're like dad what it's just a fucking tooth-based gap right yeah and you would tell yourself that 90% of the time but then 10% of the time he'd say something that would stick right and and over time what I'm just I'm just thinking like what is what happens to a 13 year old kid who like can never do right right can never do enough what does that kid start to think about himself what does he start to believe about himself. And yeah, go ahead. I don't know.

I probably hear you probably say one more thing. Yeah, I'm, yeah. So, I mean, I think he says what you say. That in order for people to, like, in order for me to bring value to the table, it needs to be something super concrete. That, like, it has to be something that no one can refute because, like, who I am is, like, not enough. Right. And I'd say I'm just envisioning, you know, if we really want to try to tie things together in an overly simplistic and probably unfair way, it's going to be like, I mean, I don't know, man.

Like, you know, when we talk about these phrases like self-esteem and confidence in who you are and accepting yourself for who you are. And I'm also, I'm just going to keep going and you can cut me off at any point. And then I also think a little bit about, you know, the things. that you tell yourself and what you've learned to tell yourself, which is that if you do everything right and it's your fault, it sure as hell is going to be, if you don't get any forgiveness when you do anything right,

why on earth would you get any forgiveness if you do even an iota of something wrong? If you get a 99, you're not happy with the 100, or maybe you are happy, or maybe your dad's not happy. But if there's a 99, like, fuck that. You don't deserve a break. And so with whatever happy, like it's your fault. So like you don't deserve a break. You don't deserve forgiveness. And then we also get to this this feeling of being trapped, right? Where like you're,

you're like, you know, I can't win this game. I can't win. If I show emotion, they say I'm being manipulative. And if I don't show emotion, they say I'm being cold. You strike me as a guy or kid who just can't win no matter what you do. It's very, really hard to believe that you can't win. To try to convince yourself that you can find some kind of niche that you can kind of like come back. That if you try hard enough to show other people that like, you know, if you work really, really hard and you can, you can sort of overcome like that core sense of like, rot and decay about who you are.

And that's hard, man. It's a hard way to live life. So despite being so fucking pessimistic with my imagery, the reason I'm hopeful for you, Albert, is because I think you actually are wrong. I think you're not rotten decay. And I think you have value. And I think that for a long time,

you, like there haven't, and it sounds like you've had people around you try to teach you that. But I fundamentally don't think that, you know, I just don't think you're a piece of shit. I think the reason that you heard giggling in the background when that girl called you is because her friends put her up to it. And she's like, if you like him, call him. And then she calls you.

And then her friends are giggling in the background because she's calling you. I don't think it's an elaborate, you know, joke that they're making fun of you. I think that's what teenage girls do when they put their friends up to calling their crushes. I wouldn't know, though. I never got one of those phone calls. Yeah. Anyway, I came up for air there at the end. I can tell you.

Yeah. Appreciate it. I'm also doing some of the lifting. You can pick it up. All right. I'm at the pen to order the conversation. either one. Yeah, I wasn't sure you meant which one you're talking about.

Either one. I have. Oh, you've got a backup. Okay. Well, this is a knife. Yeah. But it's not a real knife. So I just feel like I just, I just need to fidget with stuff because I have so much

anxiety. You're super about that. And there's a certain level of satisfaction of being proficient with, like, seeing progress. Like, when you work at something and then like, you're seeing, see the progress, we can feel it. Yep. And so I'm very like, like, that's something that's always I've been drawn to that.

Yeah. So if you want to get super analytical there, right? There's two kinds of progress there. There's one is that like there's a certain satisfaction over mastery. And then there's also the sense that like if I can see myself getting better, I don't have to look at my intrinsic lack of value. because you see here's my external value. Like I can do this and now I can do this and now I can do this.

And it's just an emphasis on positive feeling from the external world in a sense of mastery that other people can't deny, that you yourself can't deny. I think it's a bit of both. I think so too. Do you want to, I know you were about to say something and then you let me continue. So I don't know if you want to share anything or. I'm trying to see if there's any like,

tangent points for further things because like you know because you mentioned in the beginning that this sounds like a story about rejection um and like i think a lot of or the way that i perceived a lot of my life is just like a series of rejections and a lot of both like personally but also like objectively not getting to the college as i wanted or you know like having like a lot of um putting myself out there and like for crushes, whatever, and like being rejected or job opportunities. So I think I focus a lot on those as like kind of as kind of like defining moments in my life rather than kind of maybe the things I have accomplished. And like I know this to be the case, but it's like my brain just goes there. So am I hearing the question of what do I do about that?

No, it's just more like I don't know. Tell us about my... Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. I just feel like a lot of the things I think about it is like, I know this is how I feel. So now like, how do I like kind of reprogram what I'm like, how I'm trying to approach all these things so that I don't do well on it so much. Great. That's a fantastic question.

So I think... So once you have one of these like core beliefs about yourself, right? And I think I think your rejection sensitivity comes because. So Albert, what I see is within you, there's a war between what you know shouldn't be true and what you believe about yourself. Right? Like you can look at your life and when you're tranquil and you're level headed, you can say, I've accomplished a lot. I'm a good person. You know, I support a lot of people.

I'm a good friend. I'm allowed to make mistakes. And then inside, there's also like this kind of fear, this belief that you carry around that you're none of those things, that you're a cause for suffering for people around you, that you don't have value, that all you bring is unhappiness. And there's this kind of war. And then sometimes what happens is like something happens in your life

and I think what's been going on is like the positive part of you has been winning and then the negative part of you when something happens the negative part of you is like, see, see? I told you. I told you all along.

That's not who I am. And so what do you do with that? What do you do when you start to, when you have that voice inside you that tells you that, you know, that you're not worth it and that you're not a good person? And that unless you bring something concrete to the table,

unless you can make people smile or laugh with magic tricks, that you're not worth being around. How do you deal with that? It's a good question. So, I'm going to give you kind of like a two or three-part answer, and it's going to be a little bit academic. Okay, the first is that... Yeah, safe territory.

uses our mind, not our heart. So the first thing is that each of these emotional insults is an unprocessed trauma or something that I would call a somskaar. So a somskaar is like something that is like an undigested emotion that then goes dormant into your unconscious mind and over time builds up. Like basically what happened is that, you know, for two years you said every day you used to cry and to a certain degree you were starting to process those emotions. But I don't think that there was.

anyone there who could sustain the positive Albert during those times. And so each one of those moments, each one of those conversations, you kind of built up this like portal that would spawn like negative thoughts and feelings. And so the problem right now is that you've got that portal in your unconscious and it spawns these thoughts. Right. Like literally if you look at the way the nature that the mind works, it's like you're going about your day, and it's like literally something just spawns in your mind. Right? It's weird.

It's like a bubble machine that's just like generating these like thoughts about you. And so you can kind of acknowledge that you shouldn't have those thoughts. But I mean, that machine is in there. That belief is in there. And as long as that belief is there, it's going to start generating these thoughts. So then the question is, okay, what do you do about it? One way is through emotional processing. So that's like doing something like therapy where you go and you talk about these things and you cry.

And then like when you cry, you feel a little bit better. The main thing is that the Smskar gets digested a little bit. Gets digested, digested, digested, digested. And if you do that work for a while, one day you'll kind of be free from it. So that's kind of like a psychological approach, a therapy approach. The other thing that I'd say, which I think is going to terrify the shit out of you, is that I think that there's like a spiritual or karmic approach. And I think what that means is, like, actually going and, you know, like, having conversations with the people that you've wronged.

Recognizing that, like, although you're a wolf who's been cut from the pack, there is a certain piece that comes from resolving that. And what I mean by resolving that is, like, going and, like, having conversations with people. And if you want to be a part of that group again, if you miss that group, you know, if you've made a, if there's a rupture between you and someone that you care about, you try to, you try to fix that. Now, fixing it doesn't mean practically like rejoining something or doesn't, I'm not talking about business. What I'm talking about is like a karmic debt, right, of like going back and trying to like make things right with people. And I think there's an immense amount of strength. And then also acknowledging that like, and this is the thing is, until you try that, you're carrying it. And if someone says, fuck you, I never want to see you again, you can at least be a little bit calm with yourself that like you tried, right?

And if they, if they don't want to forgive you and that's like totally fine, but like you fucked up and I tried to make it up to you. And if you don't want me to make it up to you, that's entirely your choice. And I can respect that. but I can also respect myself a little bit because I tried to fix it. And I think this is where, frankly, I mean, I think this is like where honestly, sometimes I kind of differ from my colleagues because the thing about therapy is they tell you, I mean, I'm about to dis-therapy, but I think it's sort of true. You know, what we're taught as therapists, what we're trained to do as therapists,

is to work in the room. Right. We're going to come and we're going to talk about your feelings, but you know. never have to really do anything outside of the room. That's the whole scope of therapy. And there's a part of me that says that, like, ultimately, you have to do things outside of that room. You have to do more than emotionally processed. You have to take action. And I think we leave something really important behind when we don't try to take action. And I'd say, Albert, if you've made a mistake in your life, it's not about whether you get to feel or whatever. It's about,

like trying to fucking fix it, man. Right? And you have to give it. You're all to try to fix it. I don't know if you have. I don't know, you know, you're laughing.

So I'm guessing you've got an answer for me there. Um, I think I've done as much as I could like, like in a reasonable way. So it's like, I think I've already done that. Um, and so,

so now it's like, now, that I know like the position of how things are. It's like now I'm trying to just deal with like moving forward as like myself. That makes it. Sure. And so what. Yeah.

It wasn't like I like stop talking to everyone and just like all right. Like I try it having those like conversations. And then you know, it's just like kind of like this is just how it's going to be. And then and then so like move. and then live our separate lives kind of deal. Yeah, so do you feel at peace with that? I think it's more like, it's like the bittersweet thing, right? Where it's, and also it's like this is given time, right?

Like, I don't know, like you're supposed to revisit these things. Like, you know, like there's like a protocol for like, okay, after this amount of time, you should maybe revisit this topic again. These people. was the kind of thing where it's like I've just been trying to like knowing kind of the general state of things kind of being okay and like making new connections and trying to not be so tied up with I guess past relationships and try to like make new ones that I know like at least there is more of a reciprocity in terms of like kind of the I guess something. emotional labor and kind of time spent. And like I know it's not like obviously didn't feel great for me, but I also knew like this is their choice.

This is their decision. And like I'm not going to be one to try and pose my own will on other people because like I'm, you know, because I want it. Yeah. So you made a comment early in the interview, Albert, that actually made me think that like you said something like there are things that you want to say or people that you would. would want to reach out to, but that you don't, something along those lines. And, and does that, do you remember that or does that ring a bell?

And so what keeps you from reaching out? Well, one is fear. Others, rejection. We're both rejection. And also like, also the fear of being misunderstood. you know, it's like if I'm reaching out what for what means or what purpose am I doing this, is it because I'm trying to like build my business. Am I trying to, you know, like work my way back into certain parts of like certain communities?

It's just like I just feel like unless someone reaches out to me, then like any action that I have, like reaching out to someone else is going to be viewed like in like the most negative light. and I don't know that's true, but that's just like my fear, and like I'd rather not risk it for something like that. And what does reaching out look like? It's like, hey, want to hang out or it's been a while? I love to catch up. Or if it's someone that I don't know, it's just kind of, kind of,

there's some people that I would want to, like, other content creators. and that's kind of how I've always operated in the past as well. It's like if I think what someone's doing is really cool or what they do is really, like I feel like connected to like their work or whatever they do as their job. And it's like I want to reach out. Like I want to see we can be friends. And so a lot of like I have a lot of fear that like people don't want to talk to me because because I myself don't offer enough as like an.

individual as or as like a content creator or as an influencer that the risk of potentially like being on the bad side of other people is going to supersede the immediate value that I give. So it's like if someone finds out like they've been talking to me or they're working with me, then it's like, okay, maybe these people like it's not like, I don't think anyone would be like, no, you can't work with this guy. But it might kind of, I guess in a business or in a scene that is so largely based off of your relationships and like good vibes towards people and like vouching for people you think are cool.

It's like any and like how hard it is to even like break in in the first place. I think a lot of people just wouldn't want to take that risk. Especially since I'm like much smaller. So and there's like, so I have a lot of fear regarding that. It's like I don't want to hurt other people's chances. by like either reaching out to them or like having them work with me.

So I just don't, unless they reach out first. And there's been some people who reached out and I'm very grateful for it. But even then, it's like it can never be in any meaningful public way because of, you know, just like how it'll look or like it might be disrespectful for certain, like, two certain people. And like I understand that and I acknowledge that. And, you know, it's like I would love to like talk to them more or like, spend time with them, but I know it's just like not a, it's not a possibility given the current circumstances. And so there's a lot of kind of bittersweet feelings towards that as well.

Or it's like, I feel like it can't, it can't be, I can't ask for more. You know, it's like having some people talk to me is better than no one. So it seems to me like talking about this is actually more comfortable for you. I think I thought about this more. So maybe that's why. So I, I think there are couple of reasons for that. One is it sounds like you've thought about it more. The second is that I think this is more from the present, whereas a lot of the heavy emotion, I think, is like some scars from the past, right? These are like thoughts and beliefs like, I'm not someone who other people want to be around. Like, I think you've felt that way for a long time. And so what happens is like when the things that are heavy from the present day are the ones that reinforce that belief from

the past. Does that make sense? Whereas this, you know, sounds like there really is a business side to this that you really, you know, and I think the really tricky thing about this is that I think that that business side is like, you know, seems really legitimate to me. But I also see you, your kind of emotional shackles holding you back from making progress here. And what I mean by that is that, you know, I think it's. like, it sounds like you kind of said earlier that you put other people first, you know, and you always felt like other people are more important than you are. And so what you're doing is you're, even the risk that you could potentially taint someone's

career keeps you from taking a shot at doing something that you find like fulfilling and happy. And if we really think about it, that's really kind of very caring and also kind of shooting yourself in the foot, right? is what you were saying. And I think some of this stuff has to do, like you said, with your fear of rejection. And I'm curious, what would that rejection look like? I mean, what do you imagine would happen?

Well, it's also happened, like, actually, I did try it a couple of times. And then... Do you feel comfortable sharing that? I find myself being really curious what that actually looks like. I mean, it's not like a, basically like I asked someone like, hey, go to hang out and then they're like, let me check. And then there's basis like, oh, they're not comfortable with this.

And then I'm like, okay, that's fair. And then that was that. And then I kind of, there was like similar, like things on like a similar vein. And so it was never like, it was never like very dramatic. Like, it was just like, you know, it's like, feeling it was there. And so people just want to respect. Okay. And how do you feel about, how do you understand their choice?

It's like, I think when you're like, because I'm trying to think about it from like their perspective, right? It's like, I'm the longer like the friend that they're closer to. So it doesn't make sense to kind of do something that you know that your, your closer friend is going to. or like people that you're close to are going to be more hurt by than to like kind of extend that like kind of hand of like empathy or compassion in that moment and especially like people have doubts about like my character like who I am as a person right and it's like I don't know like maybe this guy is just trying to weasel his way back into like being successful or part of something.

That sounds tough man So I'm just trying to stay in my lane It's do my thing It's kind of like where I've been at Or I've been telling myself But obviously it's hard And it's like I've been alone for so long That I kind of like forgotten

Like what it's like To be lonely I remember in the beginning It was like The feelings of like isolation Were like way more intent And then COVID happened And then kind of everyone else was feeling

What I was feeling But at that point I was so acclimated to it that I'm like, my life is no different, um, post-pente, pre-pandemic and like during the pandemic. Why do you, why do you try to stay in your lane? Because I feel like, like, I just don't want to stir up trouble people, you know? It's like, I know, like, I don't, like, I've only been streaming or I've been, like, making content for like a month now, a month and a half.

It's like, I haven't proven myself to, like, kind of be better or so until like, I feel like, It seems to me like you want to feel worthy again. What's it like to feel unworthy? Not great for sure. It's like, I have like earn it, you know? Yep. And until I do that, like I don't have the right, kind of like ass right.

So I'm just going to think for a second about what do we do about that? What does that shrug when I ask that question? and I don't know. I think, Albert, the real challenge here is that the real challenge, real challenge, is that I honestly think that your road forward is not alone. And I think here's, you know, we do this to ourselves sometimes where we think like, you know, I'm going to face the rest of the world once I know I'm worth it, right? Once I know I'm ready.

It's kind of like, you know, I'm going to take the SAT or like, you know, I'm, Once I know I'm going to get a good score. I'm going to practice really hard. I'm going to stay in my lane. I'm going to fix myself. And then I will unleash myself upon the world. I'll reenter once I know that I'm going to be like, okay, right? Once people, once I have something to bring to the table.

There's a lot of what I would call paralytic security there. There's a lot of like idea that like, you know, once I do this, then I can feel safe to go out. And then I can approach people because I bring something to the table. People can care about me and people can want me and I really do have some value. And I got to stay in my lane until I get to that point. The reason I call it paralytic security is because I think it's paralyzing.

Because I think that unfortunately like your road forward, that's certainly one way to do it. it, right? And I'm not saying that's the only way to do it. But I mean, there's a part of me that says that, you know, you got to fix what's broken. And what I'm hearing over and over and over again is like, is not that you're going to teach yourself that you have value. Like what you've missed and what's missing in your life is not your own perception of your value. It's other people giving you value. And that's the damnedest thing. That's the really, really hard thing is that. that sometimes in life, you know, we always think that, like,

we always think that healing is something that I can do, right? I can heal myself. I can go to therapy. I can talk about my emotions and stuff like that. But, I mean, I hate to say it, man, but sometimes in life, the fastest way to get better is actually, like, depends on other people. And it can be incredibly terrifying to roll those dice. Right?

And I think that something tells me that if, if, You can, I think you have to a certain degree, but if you can keep on actually showing them, because you have to show them your imperfect self. And you have to give them a chance to accept that because here's the problem is that if you stay in your lane and you assure yourself that you bring value to the table and then you show it to them and they accept you, what are they accepting? They're accepting the magic tricks. They're not accepting you. right? And this is what's really got you stuck is that you've figured out this solution. You figured out this thing that if I do something that other people can't refuse, then they'll accept me.

But that's where you shoot yourself in the foot because then the only thing you're truly doing is reinforcing that they're not accepting you. They're accepting the Rubik's Cube or the magic trick or the whatever, right? And so bizarrely what it does is it reinforces the idea that you're not worth it. And the real antidote to that is to show people the half-formed thing, right? To show people the incomplete thing. To show people the vulnerable thing. To show people yourself, which you're terrified that they're not going to accept. The magic is that when you show people those things and they do accept you,

then it's going to be really, really confusing and really, really difficult. Because you're just going to be like, what the fuck? I don't understand why this person is showing the value. I mean, we saw it with your, you know, that girl who was in love with you. You're like, I don't understand what this person can possibly see in me. And that's exactly what you need to encounter over and over and over again. Right? You need to be just really fucking confused that people think that you're, you have value as a person.

That you have value outside of making them feel better and putting them first. you need a lot of confusion in in terms of like why are these people hanging out with me I don't do anything from them I'm small why do they care about me I don't deserve to be cared for and there's a part of me that honestly says that's your road forward I mean like it's hard it's going to require courage on a level that I don't know if you've ever found in yourself or realize that you have but I think it's in there I think I think it's it's buried, but I don't think you realize that you have it. I don't think you realize that you are a strong person, and you don't need to prove that to anyone. I think your strength built up

each day of those two years that you cried on a daily basis. And it's in there, right? Because you kind of survived, and to even extent you thrived, and then you made mistakes. And not to say that you shouldn't accept responsibility, but I think that's probably worthwhile also thinking about and learning to forgive yourself for why you made those mistakes. And we haven't really talked about that. And I don't know if we're going to, because that skirts a little bit close to drama. But if I had to venture, we don't even need to talk about it. I can toss out a couple hypotheses that sometimes we do things to not disappoint other people. And did you make mistakes that were sort of egotistical, sure, but I, you know, I'd bet money that that's sprinkled in there.

And I think that ultimately, like, I don't know if you've forgiven yourself, but like that too is an important path that you have to walk, which is going to be hard and unfamiliar because I don't know, you know, so we learn from what people show us. And I don't know if other people have shown you forgiveness. So I don't know how you're going to learn how to do it yourself. And ultimately, I mean, I hate to say this, but like, you know, someone who works with people who are suicidal and things like that on a daily basis. What I can tell you is that, you know, expecting someone who's suicidal and hopeless to find that on their own is fucking ridiculous.

And so where do you get the idea that you can walk this journey on your own? And I think that's what's so fucking hard is like staying in your lane. Like you can certainly get there. Don't get me wrong. Like you can do a lot of introspection, a lot of therapy. I think you're well on that road. But there's a part of me that says that, you know, the first. fast track here is going to be actually like with other people that even if you feel you fear that

rejection that reaching out to other people and saying hey i've thought about this a lot i'd love it if we could reconnect you know and being authentic and honest with them and also i think you do a good job of this it sounds like you're pretty respectful of their boundaries if they say i'm not comfortable with that so that's good right but to still share with people that that like, you know, I don't know if you've told someone that you miss them, right? And you want to be clear about not trying to guilt trip people into like seeing you and things like that. But like, but there are ways to have these conversations. But I think if you miss someone, you should tell them.

You know, I grow up in a tradition that says that unless you fix this in this life, it's going to carry with you. Like you carry it. You know, all actions have an equal and opposite reaction. All actions have consequences. And what I see in your life, Albert, more than anything else, is work that's left half done. I'd say that's fair. That's questions.

I guess maybe more fears. Good. Very good. I mean, there's also like a question, right? It's like, I think I maybe made it sound like, like, I have like no friends. But I mean, I have, I have like a decent support system, you know, even. And now, it's just like, I think maybe what I miss most is having like a centralized friend group, which I realize now is less of the, is less normal than I used to think, I guess.

I think a lot of people work nine to five jobs and then you have like friends that you like connect with, but you don't like see them every day. And that's like normal existence. And I think that's why communities on Twitch of like streamers are very like attracted to viewers because because it's kind of like what you wish you had in your own life there's like this kind of

parissocial relationship and this kind of living vicariously through other people and I think having like tasted that it's like you know feels good to be part of something but there it's not necessarily like the right like I don't know if it's necessarily

necessary either to like want to go back like to living that kind of life because I think there's definitely to a degree feeling like my like my relationships with people were like the product that I was selling and I think there's a lot of confusion there like involving like am I friends with this person or is it because our friendship like gets us a lot of social validation And, like, I definitely feel, like, at some points that that was hard to, like, differentiate. Whereas, like, you know, I know, like, the kind of friendships I have now with people are, like, because of, like, everything that's happened. Like, I know this person's here, like, showing up for me because, you know, that's, you know, they're not here for, like, like, the video, like, the filmmaker, the musician, the magician, whatever. So, like, that's something that I think about a lot as well.

I'm really happy to hear that. And a lot of, like, the feelings I have, too, are, like, do I miss? Like, is it the idea of loss and the feeling that I need to fix something, the reason why it feels bad? Or is it because I genuinely, like, need this to be a part of my life? Yeah. I haven't figured. I figured that out, yeah.

Those are all wonderful questions, Albert. It makes me hopeful for you, actually. I mean, the one thing that I would say, and maybe we can kind of segue to meditation in a few minutes, but, you know, I'd say that I think these are conversations that you should at least try to have. And it sounds like you actually do have people around you that help you feel valued outside of your performances,

which is wonderful. And so if that's the case, then I think it's really about settling your karmic debts. It's about, you know, and I, I mean, there are a couple of things here. The first is that I think a lot of what holds us back is like not fixing the past. And fixing the past doesn't mean returning to it. It means like not addressing it, right? Like owning up to what you did and like acknowledging things and sort of letting things kind of like, like letting your own mind kind of.

process it, giving other people a chance to process it, even if that means sending anger and frustration and hurt your way, which you should absolutely receive from them. And, and, you know, take it from them and then, and then let it go. Because, like, then they're going to be done. They're not holding on to it. You've done your job. You can let it go. It's going to be hard. The second thing is that ultimately, I think, Albert, what you need to learn is, like, You know, your road to value can come from your new friends and things like that can come from therapy and reflection. But it can also come from facing your own fears and surviving them, right? What you need now more than anything else, I think, is courage.

And you're not going to recognize entirely who you are until you face that fear. And even if they reject you, I think my hope is that there would be peace around that. you can kind of say like, hey, like, you know, telling people how you feel and like telling people like, hey, you know, I really valued this. It was really awesome to have this opportunity and, and I'm grateful for it. And, you know, I miss this. And then kind of acknowledging like, you know, I don't want you guys to feel guilty. I really don't. And if anything, I would hope that we could really just like have one last conversation and put it behind us. Not trying to get back in. and also what? I've had the conversations already. And how did they go? Pretty much like, there was all amicable.

It was just kind of like, yeah, so in a way, it's like I'm more dealing with now that I know and it's like living with it kind of deal. Living with what? Less to like,

just like, like I try my best, but it's just like because of like the trauma and the damage I've done, it's just like it's never going to be like truly healed and so like living with that guilt. Interesting. So when you say it's never truly going to be healed, what does healed look like to you? No.

Like for me, it's like I like when I even just go on the platform like Twitch, it's like I can never stream like I can never go onto the Twitch page because there's too much stuff that like I guess like reminds me a thing. and like so I just and I'm sure like it goes both ways right I'm sure people like not a lot people feel good about like seeing stuff about me or whatever and yeah Albert I think it sounds like you've done a lot of it but I don't I don't think you're done man okay I mean just just something about the way that you're describing things like so so I'm I'm very happy I mean happy is a weird I'm I feel reassured that you had some of these conversations I think it's absolutely the right step to take and what I'm also hearing is that like the wound is still open and I don't know what that conversation looks like but I you know maybe it isn't a conversation maybe it's more

on your end but like it sounds to me like you've done a lot of work on your own in the last year and I don't know when you had those conversations but you know sometimes it's worth revisiting a conversation, especially if it's open. Like sometimes one conversation, and I don't know, I'm not assuming you just had one, but, you know, sometimes it takes a lot of conversations to put things behind you. And I don't know. I mean, do you feel like you've been forgiven by the people that you've hurt? I think what I, I think these are two separate things, like what I've been told, like directly and like what I perceive to be the sentiment are two different thing. Okay. So let's acknowledge for a moment that, like, you don't deserve forgiveness.

Okay. So what I mean by that is like, I think this is a really common misconception, but forgiveness is something that the aggrieved party gets to give or not give. You're not entitled to it. And even moving past that, I know it sounds kind of weird, but even if you never get forgiven, I think that's okay as long as you know that it's never going to happen and that this person is like then you can still move past it. You can say, you know, I fucked up in a way that's going to be irreparable for the rest of my life. So be it. Let me accept it and let me move on. I think never being forgiven is okay. Being forgiven is better. But the hard thing is being in that middle space where you don't really know, right? And there's a part of me, I mean, like really, Albert, it's, I mean, it sounds like you're

holding on to a lot of this stuff. And some of it, you know, maybe I'm just focusing on this. I don't know why, but, you know, there's a part of me that, you know, I think it kind of comes back from this, like, image from the beginning of, like, you're a wolf that's been cut from the pack. And it's hard to be in that position. And doing everything that you can to get back in, even if it hurts. And I don't mean, like, get back in from a business standpoint. I mean, like, reach a place of emotional peace. And then sort of recognizing that, like, you know, you know, I can't be a part of this pack, but at least I sort of know that, and we're like, okay with that. And the pack is going to continue and I'm going to go find a new one. Like,

there's peace there. You know, you don't have to get back together with your ex or anything like that, like all the rom-coms, right? Like, you guys can agree that like divorces can be amicable and things like that where it's less like, hey, we tried it for a while, you know, it was challenging. But like, I'm going to live my life and you're going to live yours. And we can appreciate what we had together. and we can kind of like acknowledge that it wasn't great and that like we're better off on our own. I don't get the sense that you have closure. I guess that's the word that I'm sniffing around for

or hunting around for. What do you think? I guess people usually indicate that closure being like a one-time thing where it's like you talk about everything and then get some sort of indicator together. But I think it's just with the the nature of time. It's like,

it's like, like, I don't know, have things changed? From the last conversation, because I think from that perspective, like, there was closure with people I had talked to, you know,

given, like, the circumstances of that time. And so maybe it's like the uncertainty or like, like, not knowing, like, you know, like, as the general sentiment atmosphere.

So I'd steer that in a slightly different direction. What I'd say is, okay, like now I'll kind of just wrap up this point. We can talk about, you know, whatever you want to after this, or you can ask questions. But here's what I'm feeling. I'm feeling that like, so you're right, that closure is not a one-time thing, right? So if you think about, let's say, grief, right? So about nine years ago, my dad passed away.

and then like I felt grief. And then, you know, but like I revisit that grief periodically. And I sort of get closure around my relationship with him at like periodic intervals. And it happens like a little bit more intensely after someone passes away. But I just had a feeling that I hadn't had in a couple years, which is that I really missed him. And the reason that I really missed him is that I was listening to a podcast that I think he would have really enjoyed. And so I think part of what I'm what I'm, I'm kind of pushing you towards Albert and, you know, be careful when I push you because I usually

am wrong, is that, that like, there's a, there's a different kind of conversation that you can have now after your year of reflection. You know, you're in a different place, they're in a different place. And I think that there's a second opportunity for closure. And there's also, like, if they are not interested in that, that's okay. That's even, that's a closure in and of itself, like, for other people to be like, hey, you know, I'm not, I'm just not interested in revisiting that part of my life. At least you know that. And then. And like, you can be like, okay, like, that's, it's over now. But there's something just that feels carmically open to me about this.

I don't know if that resonates with you or not. That makes sense. You have any thoughts or questions? I feel like I've been pushing the conversation in a particular direction for the last half hour. That's fine. I'm always interested in, like, seeing what someone else's thing. about, you know, all right. I don't want to have any questions about it.

That's okay. That's totally fine. Like, I know this is a very real possibility and like a very real course of action. So, like, feel like if maybe a time in place for it. And I just don't know when that way. Yeah. I think, Albert, from what I'm hearing, it sounds like you're actually making a lot of good progress. I think it's great that you found people who can appreciate that you,

don't have to perform for. And what happened emotionally just now? Something happened? No, no, I don't think so. Okay. Maybe I just can't read your face. And yeah, I mean, I think, you know, keep at it. I think it's worthwhile to think a little bit about some of these things that you said,

you know, about sort of these adaptations that you have, which actually can hold you back in some ways. I think you've done a lot of good. self-reflection. Sounds like you're working with a therapist or you did work with a therapist, so, you know, that's really good. I'd encourage you to continue. Last thing that I'll leave you with is whether you want to learn how to meditate or whether

you, I don't know, you, hot? I've been doing it. I just like guided Asian apps, nothing fancy. It's like 10 minutes a day kind of deal. And how do you feel about that? Well, like part of me, like, I'm not even sure if I'm doing it right. Like some of it is just like I just feel good after doing it. You know, more kind of for me it helps put a lot of things in perspective.

Just like, you know, this is life. And I just want to make the most of it. And that like your feelings and thoughts, it's like never the situation that causes you on happiness. It's like how you like your feelings and thoughts towards it, right? And meditation kind of helps me take a step back and view like, you know, like a situation more, you know, from an outsider's perspective. You know, like, you know, like this is bothering me so much because of like how I'm like feeling or thinking about it. Not that the situation itself is like harming anyone like at the moment. Yeah, that's a pretty important insight.

And when you say you're not sure if you're doing it. right. What do you think doing it right? Like I've seen like a lot of sentiments where there's like this like a wave of people just doing meditation because it's like like like the pop like the cool thing to do and then like you just do it just to do it and say you're doing it. And but like it's more of a performative theater thing rather than like actually digging in and trying to learn more by yourself while you're meditating. And so, like, I'm not sure if I'm like, which camp I fall in yet, because there's, like, no good metrics of, like, you know, I'm really being my stride when I'm meditating versus

just being consistent. Do you have thoughts when you meditate? Try not to. Try to exist. But it's hard. Like, at least in the beginning. was very hard to just like not think about anything. Yeah.

I feel like it actually is the opposite where it's just like now I'm like racing. My mind's just racing. Okay. It's slow down the reason. If meditation could change one thing about your life, what would you want to change? I just want to be, sorry my headphones die. I just want to, I just want to wake up and be happy that I'm alive and not feel like. I have to fight to prove that, you know, that I'm here or whatever that takes to you at peace with that.

Okay. So I'm going to ask you to do something, okay? I want you to sit up straight. This is going to be a two-parter, two-parter in the sense that once you do this for a while, I'm going to teach you. So this meditation technique has to be taught in at least. least two parts. Okay. So I'm going to teach you part one and then down the road, DM me or whatever. If you do it, if you do this, if you do this like consistently for like three or four months, just let me know and I'll DM you. I can teach you the second part in five minutes. But I want you to, I'm going to say something. So it's going to be a piece of a mantra. But I want you to focus on, I'm going to teach you one piece of it today. I want you to

focus on the generation of sound and feeling in your body. You play music. Violin, you said. Do you sing? Not really. Okay. Great. So I want you to focus on the sound that it creates, okay? And focus on it in your in your body. So what I want you to do is chant to vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, vum, Vum. Okay, so close your eyes and focus on the sound generation. And you can be loud about it, okay? Next straight. Okay, now the less emphasis on the M,

and more emphasis on the first half. Vum. Vum. Vum. Vum. Vum. Vum. Vum.

Vum. Vum. Vum. Good. Now tell me what you feel when you chant that. Feel kind of a reparation kind of here. Okay. And then kind of sound generation.

The Vah sound like here. and it kind of goes from here. Okay. So I'm going to give you a little bit of direction. That's great. So focus on the vibration. And what I really want you to do is notice where the vibration starts from and where it ends. Mm-hmm.

Okay. So practice again. Do like nine rounds. Vum. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom.

Boom. Boom. Fum, fum, fom, fom, fom, fom, fom, fom. What do you notice about where it starts and where it ends? It feels pretty similar. Okay. Maybe not here, but like, yeah, it's like, I feel like from here down to here. Okay.

How does it feel to do it? Kind of relaxing, but also requires, like, a degree of focus. Okay. I'm doing it. Okay, sure. So I'm going to teach you one more practice. Okay, I'm going to teach you how to do Ome chanting. So Ome is composed of three syllables.

Ah, ooh, and mm. Okay, it's a little bit. So you're basically going from a completely open mouth to a completely closed mouth. So I'll demonstrate. Got it? So we'll do one round together. Deep breath in. Oh.

Did you feel that? Yeah. We're going to do five rounds together. Okay. Or five, let's do seven breaths together. Okay, so we're going to do, let's do five rounds together. And I want you to do after the fifth. I can't hear you anymore.

Does something happen? Oh, yeah. Sorry, I was on, I switched to push to talk. So what I want you to do is on, on, we're going to do five rounds together. And when we finish, I want you to sit in the silence after the fifth. round and just keep your eyes closed for about 60 seconds. I'll prompt you when it's time to come back, okay? Okay.

Okay, so deep breath in. Again, deep breath in. Last one, maximal power. When you're ready, go ahead and come on back. How do you feel? Feel good. What were you thinking about doing the practice? During the whole thing or just like in the

silence. Either one. Just what was your experience of it? Generally speaking, like having something to do like focuses a lot of my thoughts on like that action. I'm like not really thinking of stuff.

It's like, yeah. Focus on your breathing. Okay, so tone projection. So. Yeah. So that's the goal. Okay. So like,

so the first thing to understand about meditation is that the practice is about focusing. So if you really think about it technically, as your focus becomes one pointed, you don't have thoughts. If you were observing where a vibration exists within your body, that is not actually thinking. It's observation.

So thoughts are like discrete entities that come and go. Right? You may think like, oh, I'm a smart person. I'm a stupid person. Whatever. That's like a thought. So it starts with focus. And then as you practice, over time, as you focus on one thing, then your mind will sort of melt away.

And then that period of mindlessness, which is bizarre because everyone talks about mindfulness. It's not about mindfulness. It's about being free of mind. We'll linger into the period of silence. The other interesting thing is that for you especially, I think, feeling the reverberations of the second half of the, I mean, like, there's chanting and then there's silence, which is like kind of an echo of the sound. I don't know if any of that makes sense. But I think really sitting in that place is going to teach you that what you are is fine.

And what I hear is that every day when you wake up, what you are is not fine. and if we think about what that feeling of not fine is, it comes with a lot of thoughts. It comes with a lot of not accepting, like, this core sense of who you are. The ways in which you are not fine have to do with your actions and your worth and other people and all of these things outside of you. They're all about the ripples. You judge yourself based on the ripples that you cause in life. Whereas, like, those ripples are created by all kinds of.

of things, but at the core is you, and you actually don't make any ripples. It's all of your psychological complexes and some scars and your emotions and your attachments. That's what creates ripples. You don't create anything. And so the more that you begin to sit with, like, just the quiet version of yourself, you'll begin to realize that, like, all this other crap is not really who you are. But you literally need to spend time with yourself in silence. One last thing I wonder.

The last thing that I want to say, Albert, is that the other thing that you need is should thee. So should thee means cleansing. What I get from you is that you're polluted by a lot of your thoughts, a lot of your actions. You hold on to things that make you not be able to see who you are. And we need to cleanse you of that. So the last thing that I'm going to do, and I've tried to avoid doing this on stream because it has a religious connotation to it. Are you religious? I am not.

Okay. I'm going to send you something called a Kirtan. So a Kirtan is a religious Hindu song. So it's like, it's like Pakti oriented. So it's like about as Hindu as you can get. And at the same time, I've been struggling with this for a long time in terms of how can you take the value of Kirtan, which is essentially purification and like remove the religion from it. And I haven't been able to figure it out. So the last thing that I'm going to do is I'm going to send you a link to a song. It's about 12 minutes long. And what I want you to do is listen to it every day for seven days. And if it doesn't feel good to do that at the end of day seven, then just stop doing it. But if you feel some degree of peace or like cleaner after you listen to it, then by all means continue. And then like, let me know and then we'll send you some additional stuff. I really try to avoid this because it's like, you know, it has a religious recommend. It's not, you're not even going to understand the words.

You're not going to understand any of the shit. It's in a language you're not going to know. It's not like worshiping anything really. There's just a very purifying aspect at Gyrton. Like in the Hindu tradition, they sort of say that doing this sort of stuff will clean you out. And it's not, you don't have to believe in anything. You know, you're not signing up to be anything. It's just like purifying vibes.

And I'm just curious. it may help you. And if it doesn't, no big deal. All right. I'm always down to try new things. Okay. So I'll send it to you, okay? Anyway, any last thoughts or questions before we wrap up?

I mean, not really. I'm just happy to be here. Talk to another person. Yeah, man. I'm really glad you came on. And Albert, man, I feel for you, bro. You know, I don't think you deserve what you. live with on a day-to-day basis. And I really hope that this conversation and maybe some of the

things that I recommended help you not have to carry around what you carry around every day. You deserve some of it, but not all of it. Sound good? I'm good. Take care and take care of yourself, okay? Well, do. Adios, man.