HealthyGamerGG - My Friend Group is Shattered (and it's My Fault)

Episode Date: May 20, 2022

Today Dr. K talks about being exiled by your friend group, bad behavior, next steps, and more! Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

But this is the kind of thing where like if y'all are having trouble, so this is just general advice, right? So people are like sort of doing this weird, like no one's really saying it, but you kind of get disinvited and people are awkward and stuff like that. I think it's important to have a conversation with people and say, you know, these friendships are really important to me. I want to understand what to expect. I understand that I screwed up. I understand that I was manipulative. And if you all sort of feel like because of that, you know, there is like I'm always going to be kind of a second class citizen. in this friend group, like, that's fine.

I just want to know, is that what I should expect? Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Dylan. Hi, Dylan. Let me just scroll up quickly to find my question again. Yeah, so my question.

Last year, I had a huge falling out with a friend of mine, and she tried contacting me, and I didn't answer back then. And recently, I felt ready to send her a message myself, so I did. And she hasn't opened it yet, and it will probably stay that way. And this has made me feel like I lost a huge part, like a huge friend in my life. So how should I go about this loss and how can I prevent such things from happening in the future? Sorry that happened. Do you want to go first?

you go. Okay. Yeah, I'm really sorry that happened. I think this is one of those, like, even the best case scenario is not like you will have that friendship back at 100%. So it's kind of like once these friendships fall apart, like there is no 100% anymore. So I think like kind of mourning that relationship. is appropriate where this person isn't going to be in your life

in the same way anymore. But if it's more of a question of how to avoid this in the future, I think that's really about the dynamic of how it happened in the first place. So I would want to ask you more questions about what happened to be able to give you better advice about how to avoid it. Sure, so you want me to give more context about it?

more context to like know what to say but do you have any initial thoughts before he gives context um yeah so i i didn't mean to laugh i realize it could have come across as callous because like i just hear this story so damn much and and i do i do think there's actually like a super simple answer to it and but if we want to go into the context like so we can sort of answer the question given everything that you've asked which is going to give you a general answer about how to behave, which I think is pretty straightforward, but if we want to kind of dive into it, or maybe I can say my piece and then we can get more context. You can give the general advice.

So first thing to understand, so like let's understand timeline. So how, what was the distance, what was the time frame between the falling out you had and when your friend sent you, or former friend sent you a message? Like basically instantly. Okay. And what was the time frame between you not responding to that message and you sending them a message? A year. Okay.

And how long have you waited for a response? About two to three weeks. Okay. So let's just understand the situation. Your response time to your friend is how long? a year okay so like and you're expecting a response

in how long I'm like not even really expecting a response I like realize that like she could be doing the exact same like thing to me 100% right

so and I don't think that's out of malice I don't think she's like no no screw you you're messaging me after a year I mean there may be some kind of resentment but let's just acknowledge for a moment that it takes time for human beings to process feelings. And in your case, it took you a year, which is like totally fine. And so give your friend some leeway and don't give up on the relationship yet because I think, you know, it may be salvageable.

So I just give your friend, like it's been two weeks and it took you a year. So like cut your friend some slack and be a little bit patient. The other general advice, sorry, you can be compassionate. The other general advice is that when someone sends you a message, it's something that everyone needs to understand. When someone sends you a message, you should at least respond in some way that is like respectful and lets them know you're considering it.

This whole like leaving things on red is just so painful for people. So if your question was, how do I prevent this from happening again? What I would strongly, strongly recommend is that if they send you a message right away, you at least respond to them and you say, hey, like the falling out that we went through

has been really hard on me. Like, I'm going to need some time to process. At least let them know that you, you know, because like imagine what that experience is like for your friend where y'all are close friends. You have a falling out. They sort of extend some kind of hand. And I'm not saying you have to patch things up.

I'm not saying that you have to like, you know, have a deep conversation with them, but at least some kind of receipt of acknowledgement and letting them know that you need, some space to process, I think would really, if you're trying to figure out, how do I prevent this from happening again, that one message, I think, could impact a lot. What do you think about that? Yeah. Yeah. So to give a bit more context, you said that you like heard this story a lot before, so you probably like can like already guess that I like kind of had a crush on this girl.

so that also made me a lot like clingly and jealous and like very controlling over her which she also didn't like

which was like one of the major points of the reason of that like the falling out and yeah so basically like I wanted to

respond when she sent a message and I'm like gonna do like a confession here for like 4k people but like I kind of did that in in a manipulative way like I wanted her to worry about me I guess well not I guess I know muted so I was just saying I think grutti go saying we were commending your self-awareness yeah and I was saying what that you know I think it's a really big step you've taken. And if you want to prevent these kinds of things happening again, you know, as we say, good diagnosis precedes good treatment, even though nothing here is medical treatment, I think it's a good, you know, general thing that you have to understand a problem before you can fix it. And you're being able to admit some of your feelings and your awareness

of how you are feeling, I think, will, is the first step, is the antidote to like those kinds of manipulative behaviors. Because once you acknowledge the way that you feel they lose their ability to control you as powerfully. Right. Are you still crushing on her? No, I've moved on from that. Sadge. Sorry, all fell apart,

but yeah, that seems like, you know, kind of what happened, and so you would be able to not do that again. And for what it's worth, I wouldn't give up on the relationship quite yet. And I would even say, you know, given a little bit of space, I don't think it's

I don't think it's a huge problem to even send another message like one more message maybe in a couple of months if you really feel like you need to for the sake of your closure and then let it go yeah it's also a bit difficult because we share a friend group and like with the remainder of those friends I still like I'm still on good terms with

but like oftentimes when and we're hanging out. And she wants to join. I, like, have to go away. Why? Wait, do your friends know what happened between the two of you? They do. Okay.

Well, yeah, and to answer the question of why, go ahead. Trying to toggle the mutes and stuff, too. So you're trying to figure out a way to both be in the same place together. Well, yeah, because like basically I want to like hang out with my friends and it's it's kind of hard than to do that when I get a well sent away often like I understand why I get sent away. It's it's because like it gets awkward and she doesn't want to be in the same room as me and I've been kind of like you know like a villain or like a negative person towards her. So well I mean it's basically like the majority like vote like they're basically like yeah I don't I don't really want him here and the other person says

well yeah I also think it's going to get awkward I believe that you should like go away basically got it yeah so that's where I mean something about what you're saying really pisses me off yeah so we don't know the deal details of how much of a manipulative person you were. So maybe that's... But a year is a long...

Yeah, I mean, I would... Jail sentence. I feel like your time is served. So here's where, here's where like, so we have potentially a failing in this community, which is that we tend to accept people and root for them no matter how bad they've screwed up. Right. So that's where, like, I think it's important for you to take responsibility for your behavior. And I think it's important for you to have... a conversation with your friend group about what it sounds to me like unfair treatment. So like, you know, you can say, I would ask your friends, like, what does this mean for us going

forward? Does this mean that y'all are going to essentially like send me away anytime she wants to hang out with you? Does this mean that like essentially? Could I interrupt? Yeah. Because I feel like I haven't given like quite a neutral stance because to give more nuance, to be more specific, it was like for, so our friend could consist of four people, including me, still four people. So it was for a party that she and one other person hosted and the other person invited me to that party.

I was welcome there. But then, like the other day, she said, like the girl that I fill out with said that I don't really want him there at our party so it's like a 50-50% like leadership about that party yeah

and then like basically like I already had that 50% that didn't want me there and then the other friend that I was on good terms with said that yeah I kind of like understand her and like she didn't say that she was picking sides, but it definitely felt that way that she was like basically picking sides. And I mean, I understand like it's like a girl's pick the girl's side thing. And also like I've been like the bad person in that story.

So I understand why I got sent away from there. But like the other friend that I didn't talk about in that story, like he was like pretty neutral about it. Like he definitely felt bad. So I mean, I think those. details are important, but also the broader issue still stands that I think a lot of times in friend groups, crappy behavior gets propagated because it isn't explicitly named. Right.

We're talking about my behavior. We're talking about your friend's behavior now. So I think that if you've screwed up and you were an ass, like, so this is where I think that you should have a. conversation with your friends about your behavior, how you were out of line, how you have apologized, and then essentially ask your friends to lay out what you should expect. So I think a very, very, very good way to navigate relationships is to ask people what your expectations should be about their behavior.

Because when you do this, I know this good torpedo your friend group, but just let's talk through it, okay? So this is why I sort of mentioned that I kind of feel pissed off because I feel like kind of combative. I feel like, you know, so maybe don't listen to me. Thanks for that facial expression. It really helps keep me in check. But this is the kind of thing where like if y'all are having trouble, so this is just general advice, right? So people are like sort of doing this weird, like, no one's really saying it, but you kind of get disinvited and people are awkward and stuff like that. I think it's important to have a conversation with people and say, you know, these friendships are really important to me. I want to understand.

what to expect. I understand that I screwed up. I understand that I was manipulative. And if you all sort of feel like because of that, you know, there is like, I'm always going to be kind of a second-class citizen in this friend group. Like, that's fine. I just want to know, is that what I should expect? Or is this the kind of thing where my ability to spend time with y'all always depends on the comfort of a third person who? I kind of like already got to expect. that this situation only happened one time and I don't know if it's by pure coincidence or by I don't know like chatting and meeting up behind my bag that like I never like besides that that situation from a party I never got into another situation where we would we both me and the girl

who would have um yeah so that that doesn't that doesn't sound nearly as bad to me because I think it's a whole different story when someone is a host and doesn't want you invited. Right? So like if I'm a host, I get to choose who I invite. I have questions. Yeah. How old are you? 20 years old. 20. Okay. And so this was, you've already done like a year of penance with this friend group, right? Penance as in, sorry, I'm not a native English speaker. Oh, sorry. So like you've already kind of paid the price. You've been paid. punished for a year? Well, yeah, by punishing, that means, like, not really getting the chance to hang out with

a friend group as much, and, like, also not having the chance to hang out with that specific friend as much. Okay. And so, you're 20. Are you at university? Yeah. Okay. And how...

And also, like, this was my, like, only real friend group at university. university. Yeah, so it sounds like to me you're trying to like hold on to these people because these are your only friends so far, right? Or only like good friends so far. Okay, so I think I think 20 is a good age to kind of go through this. I think don't you're in this situation because you were manipulative and jealous, right? So I feel like if you follow what Alok is saying, it's just going to play into a reputation of being manipulative. So I would not recommend that. Okay. She's probably right here. Yeah. Uh-huh. Because like when you have those conversations, you have to deliver it. Like, you have to say the lines the way Al-Oak says them. If you say those lines in a way that a normal person

says the lines, like, hey, I just want to know what to expect from this friend group. Like, it's not going land in the same way. So I would not recommend that. The thing is you made these friends probably you're halfway through university. Yeah, about that. Okay, so I think now is the right time to start branching out in trying to keep the relationships you have here one-on-one friendships in a way that lets you hold on to the people that you want to hold on to, lets the people that need some distance and, like, frankly, aren't mature enough to navigate the complexities of having to, like, pick up side. And I think now is the time to kind of spread your wings.

I know that's so much easier said than done, but to me these are, like, learning moments, really. like what have we learned? Yeah, absolutely. So what you're saying is find new friends, or am I understanding it wrong? I'm saying two things. I made an and sign

because I feel like when Aluk and I talk, things get confusing. I'm saying two things. I'm saying, one, make new friends, and I'm saying two, keep out of these four, keep the friends that are important to you in a one-on-one setting.

Because I don't think it's too hard to have built these relationships and just flesh them down toilet. So I don't think you should do that. I think you should hold on to those friends and also find new friends. Yeah. I feel like it's it's been a bit like I'm doing the latter thing that you said about like the keeping the one-on-one friendships. I'm doing that but the first thing like making new friends I feel I felt that like since the falling out I haven't really been able to get as deep of a friendship or like get a as close to people as I've been like really,

I've met new people, but I, like, it's very superficial. Sorry, Alok is controlling the mutes and it's very difficult. My question was if these people that you're seeing that are superficial friendships are like people you're just seen in passing at the university or if you're like socializing with them outside of that? Yeah, the people that I've been seeing are at the university and it's basically just like, it's to have friends. Basically, it's just so I'm not like hanging around alone because like the first semester of this year, I was basically hanging around all alone because I didn't have a friend group.

And then in the second semester, I like kind of like got my drift. I got back on track. and I met like some new people just at university but it's just yeah as I said to just have friends basically it's not really like oh I really want a deep connection is just so I have so I'm not alone 100% understand I think loneliness and isolation is one of like if it's not the number one it's in the top three things that college students struggle with. I think it's loneliness and isolation. I think number one. Number two is like a fear of judgment. And I think the third is like stress management. So the first thing I want you to know is like you're not alone. A lot of people feel

this way and a lot of people are also trying to make meaningful friendships in the same situation. I think that how did you make these friends in the first place? Well, first of all, it's just the university side. That's a bit of the problem. I do have friends outside of university. I still have friends from middle school and high school. So it's not necessarily that I really feel alone.

It's just at university, the university side is a bit. But the way that I made these friends is like, pure coincidence really. So, like, I joined some, like, activities that's for, like, the first years. Like, well, you get to know each other and all that. And I met, like, one guy through that, and then that guy knew someone else. And that was basically the friend group. So I think just for the record, Dylan, I think Gruthy's advice is way better than mine for this one.

so I would definitely listen to her, because I think if you do what I said, you're going to drive your friends away because they're not going to be able to tolerate it. And I think that at some point, you've got to, you know, you've got to, sometimes there are situations, you're 20, so maybe not yet,

there are situations in which you've got to channel your inner Chad Thundercock. Right? They're talking about it here. Huh? What are we? I'm not entirely sure. What are we talking about here?

So here's what I'd say. If you want a softer way to talk to your friends, what you can sort of share with them is say, hey, you know, I really miss being able to hang out together. It's been really awesome that we've been able to maintain one-on-one relationships. I really value your friendship. And I hope that we'll all be able to hang out together again. You can say something like that. That's a lot more manageable.

And I would also say that at some point, if your friend, friends are treating you like a second-class citizen that you shouldn't put up with that. Like there's a certain amount of like you screwed up so, you know, like you should pay for that. But at some point, like, if you're always, if you're invested in this friend group and you care about these people and they're, sure, you're the guilty party, that's where like understanding a little bit about like what can you expect from this relationship, like 10 years. from now is one of them going to get married because y'all have been friends for 10 years and you're not going to get invited to the wedding because this person is invited to the wedding right so there's a part of me that still is pissed off about the situation that you're in and I feel like you're being treated unfairly up to a point and I'm not saying that you should lean into that now because at 20 years old no one

knows how to handle authentic like conflict in relationships so don't do what I said and at the same time over time, you don't want to hang out with people who are going to perpetually, for whom forgiveness and a repair of a relationship is like not in the cards. Right? You want to form friendships with people who, despite your mistakes, will be able to patch things up. And if the friend group that you have, if you screw up once, if you're in the doghouse for the rest of your life, or if you get punished for the rest of your life, if you get treated like a second class citizen for the rest of your life.

that's not a friend group that I would want for you. I agree. The only last thing that I want to kind of say to you is about awkwardness. And awkwardness is something you can push through. Like it's going to be awkward for one, two, three, four parties. After that, it's just the way it is. So I do think standing up for yourself in this situation is the right thing to do because I think that if these people are not going to be your friends anymore,

this is kind of like the way you're going to know whether or not it's worth salvaging those one-on-one relationships or the group relationship. If you do say like, hey, look, I screwed up. I really would like for us all to be friends. If we can do that, that would make me really happy. And if we can't do that, then like, I just kind of need to know so I can move on if I need to move on. and I think that is a fine thing to do. What you need to know is that if that is the approach that you take,

there's a possibility that people will say, yes, it's time to move on. So if you want to force that conversation, you have to know that like it can kind of go one of two ways. so that's why I'm kind of that's kind of like up to you on whether like how strongly this is kind of bothering you but I think I think force like I wouldn't let the awkwardness win

her her I would listen to her for sure yeah I've like sort of like already sort of like had this conversation I mean it's not really hard to have this like conversation with them because there's only like two people there so they basically like know everything that that happened but i'm mostly worried about like what because like now i'm having all these like superficial friendships and not real deep friendships i'm i'm mostly worried about that yeah so that's part of the reason that i was sort of saying like have a earnest conversation so i think

one thing that it's kind of hard to do as human beings is like if we're holding space in our heart for lack of a better term for a certain group of people sometimes there is not space for other people and so we normally think about this in a romantic term in a romantic sense right so if i'm like still in love with my ex from 10 years ago and i never really got over her it's going to be hard for me to participate in a healthy relationship. The thing is, I think we see that for, we see that for all kinds of other relationships. So we see that for friendships.

We see that for marriages and like stepchildren, right? If there's no space in my heart for my stepkids, like that's not going to be a healthy relationship. And so if you're sort of emotionally invested in these friends, it may actually make it a little bit harder for you to make space for other people. I do think one of the things that you say about friendship that I strongly believe in is a routine.

So like if a couple of you always go for coffee after this class or you have like Tuesday evenings, you play tennis with this person or like some sort of regularity, that's where I think you get the most opportunity to develop a deeper relationship. when you have regular interactions outside of your kind of day-to-day activities. I would try to organize something like that. Yeah, that's been kind of happening with like the one remaining event that I still have from that friend group. But like I'm pretty much hearing that if I like want to make deeper connections again, it's like a situation of just move on.

Am I hearing that correctly? No. It's take what's good about this friend group. Keep that close to you. And also, don't be limited to just these four people. Because also it's just four people. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's true.

Like, when I've been talking about this right now, I feel like, I mean, it's just four people. Like, it sounds kind of like harsh, but there's always like new people, not really replacements but like still there's new people yeah cool good luck to you bro all right yeah thanks so much for the advice guys goodbye