HealthyGamerGG - Past Substance Use w/ Train

Episode Date: January 14, 2021

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How you doing, bro? Good, good, good, you know, just, uh, you know, had a late night playing Rust and, uh, you know, get some gambling on there and, you know, hey, let's just say, you know, uh, luck wasn't on my side last night. Wait, so I heard something about this. There was some kind of like Rust server or something that came out or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you fill me in?

Pretty much, um, offline TV, they created this. server for streamers on Rust. So everyone can collaborate, you know, get together and stream the game. And that's kind of just what it is. We just get on and it's just all streamers and we just kind of. And Rust is like where you guys like people like it's people like attack each other and stuff. Right. Yeah, it's like a yeah, it's like a survival game.

I guess survival. Some show like survival. I don't know. And where does the gambling come in? Well, you can, so the current, well, I don't know if it's a currency, but there's a stuff called scrap. I guess it's the equivalent to the currency in the game. And, um, there's this wheel and you can gamble it. Make a wish.

Oh, for the eyelash? I like that. It's a Middle Eastman stuff, right? I think so. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, A, yeah, I pretty much go with the risky bets, you know, the one. is pretty much like a 52% chance of landing. You double up.

Everyone does that. But, you know, I'm only going 20, 10, and 5, which is like the rarest ones. But, hey, you know, big risk, big reward. Go big or go home, right? Go bigger, go home, you know. Absolutely, man. Yeah. So, Tren, a couple things.

I was hoping today, I know we've sort of been, we've mentioned addiction a couple of times. I think you had alluded to a few stories or experiences that you had that we never really got into. So I was really hoping to hear about that. and just what your experiences have been. I think that could be really helpful for other people to kind of hear about. And the second thing is just from a time limit standpoint, I have to teach in one hour and 45 minutes. So I really have to stop because there's going to be a classroom full of people waiting for me. Okay.

So I shouldn't be late for that. So apologies, if I have to stay a little bit more focused today. So how long do we have? An hour and 45 minutes. But if we're going to meditate and stuff, then we have to save time for that. You know, if ends up being juicy, we could do medit, you know, I'll do meditation on my own. Sure, absolutely. But let's dive in, baby. Yeah, let's do it.

So tell me you were, yeah, I think where we had left off is I think maybe you were going to college. Like we talked a lot about kind of your upbringing and stuff like that. and then you had sort of alluded to substance use at certain times, but I don't think we ever talked about that. Yeah, I think, so my entire life, I've kind of just been like a dreamer. You know, I've never really been grounded, you know, feeling the ground. I've always been, you know, flying high. You know, no pun intended. And I've always been a dreamer. I've always, you know, I've always, you know, that's what I'm looking for. I've always, I'll use a different word, but it's not a good enough word, but I've always kind of grasped onto the 0.01% hope that something could possibly exist that is, you know, outside of what we understand to be like, you know, possible or probable or whatever the case might be, right?

And like, that's just kind of me, right? I'm living in my head. And, you know, in high school, a lot of my friends, they, they knew how to live in the moment. And, you know, they could be failing all their courses. They could be broke, getting kicked out. And somehow, you know, when they'd come over and we'd do a sleepover, you know, I would turn around it and they'd be sleeping with a smile on their face. You know, and I'm sitting here busting my ass, you know, getting good grades, doing this, preparing for college.

And I'm stressed. I mean, you know, I'm anxious. And I guess I've kind of always been bored with the way things are. with the way things, with the way people tell you that things are, right? I've always wanted to kind of just venture outside of that. I've wanted to find the adventure. Sort of go beyond the status quo. Yeah, I've wanted to find the adventure and the magic in the world, right?

Sure. So to speak. You know, like uncharted lands, uncharted territory that isn't on a map that can't be, you know, seen on radar, some crazy shit, right? And. Which is kind of interesting for a second because it seems like, you know, in high school, you were kind of walking the narrow path of good Iranian boy, you know, getting the grades, studying hard.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Definitely not. No, no, in high school, no, in high school definitely, uh, no, no, no, no. In high school, I was, I've been, I've been pretty insecure probably up until, like, my 26, 27th birthdayish. I'd say I've been very, very insecure. I've always, I've never been like, I've always wanted to, like, naturally, like how I am, it was it.

What I was trying to be by fitting him with others, I had naturally, but I didn't recognize that, right? Because I didn't have that self-love. You know, I hadn't gone through like a self-reflection or a journey, you know, to really discover myself and love myself and accept myself. and through that I was just like a chameleon just fitting in trying to fit in different groups find my place find out who I was anyways so back to the adventure stuff um a piece of me is always craped chaos I've always craved chaos you know I just what does that mean something of

craving chaos is like just craving a disorder craving some sort of storyline almost like creating problems for yourself that perpetuate some sort of like it creates like a purpose like some sort of you know like because like what we kind of go about life we just kind of go like robots right you go to school you come home you do your homework you eat dinner you go to bed right you grow up you get to go to college you get a job you get married you have kids right it's just this like stale timeline the stale schedule us you know kind of adrenaline survival a reason exactly you got There's something a little more, you know, like there's a storyline there, that there's something, you know. So I've always kind of craved a little bit of chaos or I've craved a lot of chaos in my life.

And I think that was kind of the entryway into some of the hard drugs I've done, which occurred through college. I think I first dabbled in the hardest of drugs. Probably, well, I'd say I started freshman year with like a little bit of like soft medium drugs and then I went into like sophomore junior year. I wanted some hard drugs. Can you help me understand how you classify soft drugs, medium drugs, and hard drugs? A medium drug to me is like Xanax, hard drugs like prokocet, oxycontin, heroin, meth, medium drug, Xanax, you know, Vicodin, I'd say, I don't know. And then soft drug, I don't know, weed. I don't know.

Okay. And, you know, Train, if I ask you anything that you don't feel comfortable answering, you just let me go. And the drug topic, I'm comfortable with all. Because I think it's just important to understand, like, your terminology. So you were saying, like, soft drugs is marijuana, medium drugs, is, like, benzos, like Xanax. Did you say Vicodin was a medium drug? I'd say Vicodin is actually low-key weaker than Xanax. Zanix is actually fucking dangerous low-key.

So that's probably a little bit harder. It's just, like, that's like one of those things that's like, it's everywhere. It's like, it's become some normalized that you don't see it as this. hard drug, but Xanax is definitely bad. I'd say it's, I'd say it's worse than Vicodin, to be honest. But then again, I guess watching Dr. House, that's not the case. So, hmm. Yeah. So, so it occurs to me that maybe, you know, maybe we need to just do a little bit of public education. I may try to put something together, just a little bit about what- 100% please do. Different drugs. So one thing, just so everyone knows, this is super dangerous. So first of all, you know, I,

I really don't recommend any kind of substance use at all, really ever. The couple of things that really get people into trouble are, just as an addiction psychiatrist, I've seen this time and again, where sometimes people will use a particular dosage, and then if they get sober for a while, they'll go back to their old dosage, and that can actually be lethal. And then I've had patients die or overdose because of that.

And the second thing is that drug classes should really never be mixed. That exponentially increases the danger. So if you use benzodiazepines and opiates together, your chances of death are way higher because they sort of synergistically act to suppress your breathing and things like that. So really, I mean, first of all, don't do drugs and be super careful because a lot of times people feel like they can handle it and they can't, which is why it's such a problem. but just a couple of quick points. But I hear what you're saying. So just to kind of recap, marijuana is a soft drug, medium drugs. It sounds like Xanax and then the opiates and you classify meth as a hard drug.

I'd say so. Do you know, do you have a sense of like when you started using anything? Sheesh. I smoked my first blunt sophomore year high school. And do you have a sense of like what got you into it? Friends. and like just kind of like peer pressure or? I don't know.

I'm going to be honest, it smelled really good. Hmm. You know, it's kind of like, it's kind of like cigarettes, right? Cigarettes smell really good, but like they just taste like shit, right? That was terrible. Weed, it has that smell where you just want to eat it. You literally just want to eat it, right? But it's like it's, it doesn't actually taste like that when you, right?

That's what I'm assuming, right? Yeah. Yeah, so you know, it's funny. Yeah. Well, no, it's actually interesting. so that may not be peer pressure. So this is something that a lot of people don't know is that, you know, so I remember the first time I had a beer.

I thought it was disgusting. Even now when I have a beer, I think it's disgusting. I had one sip of alcohol yesterday, and I found it to be absolutely foul and abysmal. And then some of the people I've worked with will say that when they had their first sip of alcohol, it tastes delicious. It's like, so oddly enough, there's some evidence that based on how you're brain is wired.

I've never really thought about smell, but the taste of things like alcohol can be super, super appealing. Like your taste buds are wired. Like if you have that biological predisposition to being vulnerable to like alcohol addiction. Alcoholism, yeah. It will taste amazing the first time you try it. Yeah, I've heard of that. And I'm not quite, I've never really thought about this with marijuana, but I wonder if there's

something similar where like something in your brain is like, oh, that scent is like, that has some of the chemical compounds that, like, I really, really want. Never really thought about it that way before. But it's interesting. I've never heard someone, you know, say that the first time I smelled marijuana, I, like, really wanted to eat it. It's kind of, it's kind of an interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it sounds like you started using pot in high school. Anything else in high school? Well, I wasn't really using pot. Like, I wasn't one, like, I wasn't one of those pothead kids. Make a wish. Don't lose it this time, bro.

No, I think it's in my eye low key. But anyways, I wasn't one of those, because I played varsity soccer from freshman year all the year as senior year. So, like, I was constantly doing conditioning, constantly, you know, training. Just blink. Because when you blink and no, no. Yeah, yeah, but I have contacts. Oh, I don't know how that was going to change anything. So when I blink and there's eyelash in there and it gets mixed with my contact or just slip underneath and it's even worse.

Okay, sorry. Yeah, I didn't realize. No, don't be sorry. It's okay. Oh. Because a lot of times the way your eyelid is designed is it pushes the hair towards the middle when it closes. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Hmm.

The eyes, this design, if you just blink a lot, it'll, like, come out. Or it should, if you're lucky. But if you've got contacts, I don't know how that's going to change things. Yeah. Anyway, so back to high school. I mean, so it sounds like in college you started experimenting with, like, soft to medium. Yeah. Well, I kind of fell out of the weed thing, you know, I don't know when like junior

year of high school, you know, I started kind of that, that was the point where I, you know, I think everyone hits a point where you hit a stage in your life if you're lucky, I think, right? Because some people will just kind of stay, you know, whatever. But I think everyone hits a stage in the life where they start overthinking, right? They start overthinking. They trip themselves out. And I hit that, I hit that phase.

So anytime I had smoke, I just overthink. I just, you know, freak myself out for no fucking reason. You know what I mean? And I just stopped that all around, right? I just, yeah. So marijuana stopped and then I think my freshman year I started fucking out some Xanax. You know, I do the mixing stuff you talked about was bad, which was like drinking that terrible. Do you have a sense of what pulled you towards that train?

I would just say Just the College I mean I don't know It was kind of the party life You know everyone was kind of just I don't know

You know It was something you'd see at a Blue Mountain State You know Some chick you know You know Down You're getting crazy in the bathroom You know what I'm saying

Pop one of those Take a shot Start fucking you know Kind of like one of those crazy things right Kind of happens And then from there you're like Damn this feels good and you want to feel that again, right?

But you can never feel that again because the whole trick. You're always chasing that. But anyways, yeah, I don't really like it too much, to be honest. I mean, it feels good in the moment, but, hey, that Xanax hangover, that is terrible. That, oh, man, that feeling. Can we rewind a little bit? I didn't understand some of what you said.

And maybe that's because I just can't relate to some of the experience there. but what is the, what do you mean by the trick? Oh, the trick. So it's like, you know, I mean, it's especially in like, especially in opiates, right? But this, I think, applies to any drug, right? Like, when you take it for your first time, what you're going to feel is just absolute euphoria, greatness, amazingness, unstoppableness, right? And then from there on, right, after a couple more times, you might feel that way.

From there on, you start building a tolerance, right? and then you're kind of chasing that original high. You're chasing the dragon. Sure. Right. So you take more, you take more. You mix this, mix that. But you never really hit it until you fuck your life up, right?

So that's what I meant by chasing the high. Got it. And so I'm just curious. I mean, you mentioned early on that you were kind of insecure, that you craved chaos. You would kind of frame the discussion with those at the beginning. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Those aren't connected.

I just want to make it clear because I still crave chaos. But yeah. Okay. I mean, are either of those connected with kind of like, you know, the freshman party lifestyle, maybe how you felt about yourself? Yes. The insecurity, yeah, 100%. I'm not really a partier. Because I'm not really a party. Like, what I am is. Because you sound like one hell of a partier, dude. Yeah. I'm, listen, I can have a good time, right? You know, I think to this day, still, I've thrown, you know, the best party at a convention. So like, I don't have a good time. I'm Persian. You know, Persians, we love the party. We let us. have a good time. But I'm more of like a, you know, hang out with, you know, the three kids in science class in grandma's basement, do some science experiments, eat some chips, watch some TV, play a board game. That's me. It doesn't look like me, but that's what I enjoy. Partying, it's not me. It's just, it's so tiring. It's just, it's just tiring. Like any, like, it's the

crazy where we talked about this last time, you know, like I'm a very outgoing person. You know, I, I excel in any social situation. You put, you throw me into a bit of, strangers and I'll come out, you know, friends with all of them. But, man, it is, is it tiring? Because, like, when I go into these, I don't see it, like, I don't see it for like, so, for example, at a party. If you go to a party, right, I don't see a party as just people having a good time. I'm looking and it's just like, everyone's, like, everyone's trying to forget. Everyone's trying to push something that they need to do away. They're miserable. They're sad. They're depressed.

No one's actually, everyone's fronting. Do you understand? Like, maybe there's a few people who have their shit together and they're actually having a good time. One time they're going to go back and study tomorrow. But it's like, it's just a cesspool of shit. It's the same with bars, right? Like for me, you know, I worked in the bars for a bit.

And when I look at a bar or a club, it just looked so gloomy to me. Everyone else saw it as fun, escape. Let's have, you know, let's go, you know, this, that adventure. To me, it was just this, it was a trick. It was literally a trick. And no one could see it. Right? It was this crazy thing. That's at least the way my brain saw it. So yeah, it's never been, that's never been me. But I think in the search for myself, I guess that's just one of the paths took me down.

And so when you were partying like, let's say early in college, I mean, would you say it was an escape for you? No. What was it for you? It was a search for adventure. That's what it was. Yeah. It was a search for something. I was hoping that, you know, some crazy shit happened. I'll be real. Fuck. Some crazy shit happened in those days.

I have some stories for you. Oh, we can go for hours. We don't have that today, though. But, wow. But, yeah. Do you feel like sharing one? Just to give us a sense of what you're doing? Well, it's not.

Oh, if it's not stream friendly, then that's totally fact. Well, it, I mean, it's stream friendly, but I don't know how relevant it is. Just, yeah. What's your hesitation? Well, it's just, you know, there's certain things you know, you can't talk about because people don't. I'll just tell you. So I was with this guy named Kyle. Okay.

It's funny because me and Kyle started as enemies. He was the best fighter in our school. He didn't like me. And he actually went to my high school. And he was one of the kids that kind of fucked with me and bullied me. But we ended up connecting after we kind of like fought. Always seems to be the case. Anyways.

He's the one that had issues with you because you walked in with your head held high? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah. But he had his own issues. His dad was military and, you know, it was some crazy shit. You know, his friends would tell me stories. You know, they'd go to his house after school. This is in high school.

Think of this. A kid that's 16 years old. He brings his friends over and his dad literally drunk as hell just beats the fuck out of him in front of his friends. Some fucked up shit. So I felt for the guy. He was a little twisted. But anyway, so fast forward to college. And he and I go to a party.

There was this place called The View. At the time, it was good. I don't know if it's trash now or not. But I remember, I walk in with him and we're kind of just getting fucked up, right? And just drinking. And I'm standing outside. I have like the last two beers in the whole party, right? That's how college works, right?

God knows where the hell the liquor's coming from. Half the time it's hidden in the owner's, you know, room. Anyways, and I'm staying outside, you know, I'm double fisting the beer, right? Some trash piss American beer, right? Some Keystone Lider, some trash like that. Terrible, by the way. I'm sitting there and this big motherfucker, 6-9-250, huge motherfucker, like just steroid geeked up, walks up to me.

It's like, you're holding one of my beers. I go, no, I'm not, right? At that point I'm drunk, right? I'm feeling that good buzz, right? I'm at a point where Superman could have walked up to me and I would have thought I was his krypton night. You know, I would have, fuck, I would have stolen lowest lane from him. You know, that's where I was mentally.

This dude's 6-9-250, just steroided out. He's with his friend. And his friend was a mutual of mine. He tries to grab my beer. I turn away. I knock his hat off. It falls over the balcony. He pushes me.

And then a group of kids. form this like alleyway out into the hallway and they want us to fight but we end up like scruffling and fighting in the kitchen and he throws a punch at me and I dodge it and his his hand goes through the door and the door like the doors in these college areas are paper thin it's not like these nice wooden doors paper thin his hand goes to this door and I remember everyone's like oh and we both freeze I look I turn behind me I look and all All I see is my friend Kyle's bare-ass cheeks, just clapping cheeks, just, he's going to town on this other chick in the bathroom on the sink.

And I'm like, hey, Kyle, right? And then he runs out, right, puts his pants on. We go into the hallway. And to this day, I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I dreamt this because I was in this Superman, God complex mode. where this dude's throwing his haymakers, right? He's this big guy. He's slow.

And, you know, his, his, his, uh, his lats are huge. So he can't throw a straight punch. He has to throw these haymakers. And I remember when I was looking at him, it was as if they were just slow motion. I was dodging and I was laughing because it was so slow to me. And each one I dodged, I jabbed him. I jabbed him. And I ended up winning that.

I mean, if he was smart, he would just took me in the ground and fucked me up. But he wasn't. So. I guess that's the stereotype of the meathead. But yeah, so that happened. And then the next day we end up going to a party and he ends up being there and his face is just messed up. And he's like six of his boys.

I'm by myself. Very fucking awkward. But fortunately, he was a good guy and he apologized. I apologized. We're cool now. Wow. That's the story. Yeah.

I have a lot of those. I have some crazy fucking stories. The craziest thing about that story train is that when you said you saw a pair of ass cheeks clapping, I was like. What? Right? Because you're in the middle of a fight. And that's,

that's the, that's all thing. It's like, it's like, well, yeah. Well, yeah, why are there, but like,

like, like, there's no, there's no, like, segue into, the door was open. No, it wasn't open.

The guy punched through the door. Oh, I see. And when you pulled this hand out, there's a huge hole. And I look into the hole. And it's literally just a pair of ass cheeks and you just here. Right. He's just going to town.

It was, it was some hot shit. Yeah, it was hot as hell. but I was in my adrenaline mode, so I couldn't really get into that moment. Talk one out. Yeah. Crazy shit.

Yeah, that's wild, man. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Anyways. So around, I'd say around sophomore year, I met these two kids. And they were actually pre-med. They had like 4.2 GPAs, crazy GPAs.

Crazy GPAs, you know, always studying in, you know, the office hours. I think we called the lab or some shit like that. And they were like smart-ass motherfuckers. They were on track, you know, to, you know, a top 10 med school. And at that time, in my eyes, that's like the most credible thing around me, right? You got someone that, you know, has a good family, is a good guy, has good values, has a high GPA. on track to a top 10 med school, you know, doing shadowing and, you know, uh, internships, things like that, right? To me, that's credible. Now, these guys, they were secretly fucked up, right? They were

on some crazy shit, right? Percocet's oxicon. They were smoking them, doing heroin. So, you know, I kind of got involved with them. And in my head, I'm thinking, okay, well, can't be that bad. These guys are smart. They're doing well. Fuck, like, right? Right. Right. Fuck it. Why not? Yeah, people who have their shit together are doing it. So I can't too. Some shit like that, yeah. So it started out with, you know, perks. From perks, you know, smoking perks, from smoking perks to OCs, from OCs, smoking

OCs, then OCs got banned and you had these things called Opanas, which had a coating over it so you couldn't smoke it. And then from there, you know, obviously those were $20 to $50 to $80 a pill. you can get that amount times 100 for that same price if you do heroin instead of that. And realistically, what people don't know is perk is set is literally synthetic heroin. It's a clean heroin, right?

It's a pharmaceutical heroin. Right. No one knows that. Everyone thinks they take a perk, you know, because there's a stigma behind heroin and there should be. But yet perk set's like this accepted thing if you get it prescribed,

but it's the same fucking shit. So, right. And I guess at the time, that that's a very dangerous, you know, thing kind of say because, but it sounds like I'm justifying it. It sounds like I'm saying, oh, well, Percet's a prescribed. This is the same thing. It's just dirty, right? So it should be okay, but it's not. Okay, so I want to make that very clear. That's a very dangerous. What is not okay? I'm confused. Like, is it saying to yourself a Percocet is prescribed, so that's okay? Or using heroin, is it cheaper? I'm saying like if, you know, if you go to your boy's house and on the

counter you see his mom's percocet prescription you don't think oh what a fucking drug addict disgusting i got to get out of here bad vibes right but if you you know see a needle and heroin you're gonna or the fucking needle if you just see heroin on the county you're like fuck like i gotta get the fuck out of here and call the cops or never come back here again right but it's like they're one in the same realistically right like sure that's what i'm talking about right so yeah anyways so you know that happened you know some heroin for like i'd say three years tried meth once the meth experience was nuts

crazy story for you there fuck that was nuts I remember I came home I told my mom I spilled some some chemical shampoo in my face and she's like are those meth mites what the fuck

oh she was tripping balls crazy it was terrible I thought I was gonna die I was up for seven and a half days she was tripping she was pissed yeah like tripping hasn't pissed she was real angry she used meth

I mean, listen, if you were to saw my face, because I sat there, I was picking the whole, like, because listen, so the meth, the meth thing was like the, at the very end of this binge or binder or whatever the fuck you call it. So when I did meth, okay, I was with this like pro baseball player's kid. And we were at this like nice apartment and it was just him and I. And I remember like, before we did it, the same two kids that I did like started heroin with, they're like, yo, if you're going to do this with them, you need to make sure to tell them to eat and drink water. You need to. Motherfucker didn't. So I remember, like, I took this shit. Like, I smoked this on Wednesday.

Smoked some meth on Wednesday, okay? I remember I walk out of the door thinking it's Thursday afternoon. I'm about to go home. I check my phone. I have, like, 300 missed calls, right? It's fucking Tuesday of the following week. Somehow, like, a whole week had passed by, and I was sitting there awake. playing, I remember, some MLB, MLB like 2K9 on the PlayStation.

I played MLB 2K9 on the PlayStation for like six days. And I walked out of the house thinking it was only one day. It was, it was like six days. I was gone. And my parents thought I was dead. It was some crazy fucking shit. And I had no fucking clue. My face was swollen.

I was picking my face and shit. Like, I had no idea that much time had passed. Imagine that. It was some crazy fucking shit. It was nuts. I'm bad shit. Terrible, yeah. So that sounds crazy, dude.

Yeah. Pretty bad. I'm just trying to think. So like, like you said that you were using. So what, like, first of all, your mom knows what meth mites are? She Googled it. But what did she Google? Like, so you come home and then what happens?

I come home. I have like scabs and just. red all over my face. She types in red scabs all over her face. And it says, meth mites. And she's like, are those meth mites?

I'm like, the fuck are those. I look that shit up. It says like, you know, when you're high in meth or whatever, like you have this like weird thing where you perceive there to be,

you think there is like tiny mites underneath your skins. You have to pick them out. It wasn't the case for me. But some crazy fucking shit like that. Yeah. It was a crazy fucking thing. She was fucking mad and she was crying. And that was terrible.

I let her down at that point. but yeah. So, train, I mean, what were you, what was going through your head? Let's say like, you know, like a year before that point. So it sounds like you were using heroin for a couple or opiates of some kind for a couple of years on and on. Like, what did you think about your life and what did you think about yourself and what did you think about use? Well, nothing. Because I somehow found this balance that gave me this perfect like denial or slash delusion that like there was something wrong here. I found the balance.

I was, you know, double majored up. I had good grades, you know, I had good grades, great grades. I had two very difficult majors. I was getting by and doing very well, right? I was on track to, you know, a top 20 law school. Everything was fine. Like it wasn't this thing where I just tossed everything aside. I started selling my parents jewelry and getting high.

Like I was, I found this thing where I could hold turkey. and it all goes back to like what I told you earlier like that's that storyline that that hope that adventure like deep down I preferred that over any high right any escape any shortcut I preferred that real thing that search for that real thing that connection overall and that's what allowed me to actually get out of it myself right there has to be something you love more than the high so like I see but that's how you got it well I wasn't I wasn't Yeah, I wasn't, so like, when I said I was using with three years, what I mean is like, I wasn't using for three years straight. What I would do is for one week I would use, then I had cold turkey and I was off for three months.

Then I'd be on for two weeks. Then I'd be off for four months, right? Then I'd be on for a week. Then I'd be off for two months. Like, I could do that. Somehow I could do it. I'm sure it was fucking my body up. But somehow I found a method where I could hold turkey off and on and just use it like recreationally almost.

while also going to school and having a job, right? So it's not, so I didn't toss my job out. I didn't toss school out. I was still doing all of these things. And then like, you know, if I had nothing to do one weekend, right? If everything was done with, I had a week off, that's when I'd use it, right? Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So it's interesting, train. I really appreciate the conversation because I'm learning a lot. So as a clinician, I think the people who were like you never really enter my office. Like I've never worked with someone who's had an addiction. Let me think about this before I actually say it.

No one comes to mind right now. I mean, usually the people that wind up in my office are the ones that can't cold turkey after a week of use. It's like one week turns into two weeks, turns into three months, turns into six months, turns into eight months. It does turn to affect things. In my time of using, here's the fucked up part. you know and not many people know this but anyone who's in the heroin game right your friends or at

that you know i guess from an outside perspective that none of them are your friends they're your acquaintances or people you're smoking with but when you're in that you know world they're you're dropping like flies right like four or five friends odeing a week dead right i've had people die in front of me like some crazy shit like that like some shit you'd sit up a fucking movie. And like, I've seen it. Like, like, people don't understand. It's some fucked up shit, right? It's not like the dude's eyes are closed and he's just passed out. You touch him. Oh, he's cold. Right. It's like, right? Dude's shivering, shaking. Right. He's scared. Right. It's some fucked up shit. Like, I've seen some fucked up shit, especially because like everyone shot up.

That's one thing I, I promise to all I'd never do. I never went past smoking it. I never shot up, ever. So many people died. And if anyone, like, is ever in that game, they know that it is, it's, it's, people just die. Like, it's just fucked up. When people are dying, what goes through your head? The same thing goes through everyone's head for every other thing in the world.

Not going to happen to me. I'm careful. Right. That's the story of everyone's life, I think, for every situation. Right. Look at COVID, right? No one was a mask. Not going to happen to me, right?

And then suddenly their family member gets it. now they want to be, you know, they want to start taking precautions. Right. Did anyone around you think you had a problem or tried to talk to you about? Like, did your parents know? Um, I think they, I don't know. I hid it from them for a while. I finally told them and they helped me and, yeah.

No, they didn't know because I wasn't home much. Yeah. Did anyone kind of express concern about what you were doing? Oh, every day. Oh my parents are expressed concern every day But they didn't know what was going on But they knew there was something up Persian parents

Typical shit What and what did what would they say? Typical Persian parent kid stuff Like what? What is that? I don't know For me it's all just melded into Typical

I'm sure you can imagine Yeah I'm sure you can Well so I mean so for you For you Yeah go ahead I mean, my story is, like, quite different because I wasn't using any drugs in college. Yeah, well, I was referring to like, like, if you didn't do your homework or if you had homework, like, whatever they'd bicker at you there, take that exact line and throw it at this. Well, yeah.

So, I mean, the thing with me is that I was failing out of college, though, right? So it sounds like you were using drugs, but absolutely, bro. Dude, after, after two years of college, I had less than a 2.0 GPA. Well, you got to get into those groups. I have this little secret society in college, right? There's this group. Motherfuckers charge like 25 bucks per class they'd give you. These guys had the fucking intel, right?

They knew all the five-credit courses where the teacher didn't give a shit, right? And if you get an A-plus, that's a 4.3, in a five-credit course, that's a huge GPA boost, right? That's a huge pad. So you take a couple of those, you know, boost the 2.0, 2.5 to a 3.2, 3.3. You know, take a couple more of them. You know, you end up graduating, you know, whatever the fuck. cum laude, sum cum laude, what the fuck those are? Yeah, I mean, first of all, I didn't, I didn't know about that.

But secondly, I, I mean, my, my GPA was pretty wrecked, man. Like, when you've got, you know, a string of zero point zeros, like when you got a string of F's on your transcript, it's, it's hard to, I mean, I sort of, I ended up graduating with like a 2.5, like, and that was busting my ass for three years. Didn't your school have the thing where, like, like, up to 12 credits, they forgive? I mean, it still shows in the transcript, but it shows that it counts the second grade. I mean, if they did train, I was so disorganized that I didn't apply for it. I think it's, yeah, I think it's automatic.

That, well, I mean, it may be, it may have been something that they instituted later. But like, I went to college back in like 2000. Like, I started college in like 2001. Oh, wow. How'd you get their horses? We would walk through the snow, my dude. horses were too high-tech. Yeah, very good.

You know, back when it snowed in Austin all the time, unlike this past week. It just snowed two days ago, yeah, insane. I've been hearing about it from everyone on its sun. Yeah. You know what's crazy, though, before we go off on those tangent, or whatever the fuck. Anyways, what's crazy is, in all of that, right, and everything we talked about, there actually was a moment, right, where I was off the rails. I remember if it was senior year, right?

It was all done. I was graduating. I was working in a bar. It was the hottest bar in the entire state of Arizona, right? In Scottsdale, Old Town. And I was doing some crazy shit. Like, I was mixing. We're talking heroin, Xanax, drinking, steroids.

Like, we're talking four different things. Hardcore. And at this time... Just to jump in, train, like seriously, if anyone there is watching, that shit will kill you. Oh, 100% I will. And I'll tell you in a second what happened. At the time, I wasn't very too... I wasn't too serious about my bipolar.

Right. And there's a huge thing that happens with steroids and bipolar. I guess any of those drugs realistically. All of that, all that mixing and fucking around, I ended up having a psychotic break. It was called acute psychosis. for every psychosis for two and a half months. I remember my parents found me in the living room, banging a

controller in my head, the remote control for the TV. And I was gibbering some shit. I was, whatever, saying some, whispering some shit like a fucking cult, cult leader. Man, that psychotic break? You want to talk about hell? Fuck. My entire, like,

the best way I can explain this, like in short, there's a moment when you're kind of like lucid dreaming asleep, but like you don't actually know that you're asleep yet, right? You think you're actually awake. And this is your real world, right? There's a moment where you're in a nightmare. And in like at the precipice of the nightmare, there is this just pure feeling of terror and evil in the pit of your stomach, right? You just want to escape. You want to run. You're praying that this is a dream. You want to want to wake up, that moment, where literally when you finally do wake up and it kind of just like, you know, kind of whatever the, you know, I'm trying to think of the word, it, it slowly kind of

dissipates, right? That feeling was my, it was my state of mind. It was my constant state of mind two and a half months. And all I was hoping for is one day would I wake up? Did I fuck up? Is this permanent. You know, like, it was, it was hell. It was. Sounds terrifying. I get goosebumps talking about it to this day. I was in this two and a half month nightmare where no matter what I did, who I talked to where I was, it was, like, I'm not to cry.

It was scary. It was some fucked up shit. And the thoughts I had, man, some shit that I want to. of those fucking Tarantino movies and all of it to myself, to others, like just some fucked up shit, twisted shit. Like, I was just, that was an insane two and a half months of my life. I don't think there was any hallucinogen, psychedelic, any, none of that stuff that has ever gotten me as close to myself as those two and a half months.

The amount I learned. Because those, like, those, those, those, those. those locked chests, locked deep, deep into the abyss of your mind, are rarely, rarely even, like, gotten close to, you know, in like self-reflection and self-discovery and, like, looking inward, right? And in that state of mind, all of them were, like, at my disposal. I was so deep and so, and I was in the darkest crevices, and all of them were unlocking. I'm like, just, it was just some crazy fucking shit. I can't even explain to you. it was some insane shit like it was just fuck that was some crazy crazy shit i came back so hey

yeah you know train i i think it's certainly you know what you're describing i think sometimes people don't realize that hallucinogens and psychosis and even meditation share some amount of like common aspects like if you look at the neuroscience of it and how it affects your brain but psychosis and hallucinogens are quite different. There is like, yeah, yeah, I know, I was, I was making a reference to it. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. And so I'm really sorry you went through that, man.

That sounds, you know, I can't imagine. I've had some scary experiences in meditation, but they, they tend to last at most 24 hours. I don't think I've ever had a negative experience that's lasted. longer than 24 hours. But for two and a half months to kind of be trapped in that place, I can imagine it feels like quite hopeless and traumatic. Have you ever had your ear plugged? Like just your ears plugged?

Like in a plane, you know, your ears get plugged? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you ever tried to yawn and sometimes it doesn't unclog? Right? That feeling where you yawn and it doesn't pop, that was the feeling I had every morning waking up. Every morning when I woke up, I was hoping I to open my eyes, Like that moment where I kind of gain consciousness, but I'm not awake yet.

I was hoping to open my eyes and I look around and I was back to me. Yep. And that feeling, that feeling where you open your mouth and it doesn't pop. That feeling you have that like you can't get it to pop and there's no other way to get it to pop and you're stuck in this way until finally what somehow it pops by itself. That's the feeling I had every day trying to get back to me and hoping I'd come back to me. And that was two and a half months. It was fucking crazy. It was insane.

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like, you know, you know that. it's not your normal existence. Yeah, I was aware of it. I was conscious. You can't get back there. Yeah. And you're wondering, am I ever going to be normal again?

That's the scary part about it, right? Like, if I was like ignorant to it and I just kind of fried myself and I went brain, you know, whatever the hell, right? Like, I'm sure that'd be shitty and fucked up, probably more so for those around me. But I myself wouldn't know. But being hyper aware of the situation and being trapped within myself knowing that it's not me, but being stuck in this thing where I know how I should feel, but what I do feel is this terror and there's nothing I can do to make it go away. It's just this, it's this terrible, terrible thing.

And so it sounds like you got treatment at some point. For the psychotic break, I did. I went to the hospital and stuff and yeah, and then I ended up seeing a psychiatrist. I'm going to give it a buck 50 with you. You're the best psychiatrist I've ever You know, obviously we're doing this. This isn't an actual session, but you're the best psychiatrist I've ever seen in my entire life. I've been to hundreds, okay, of psychiatrists and psychologist. Every, no joke, no exaggerate.

I know I exaggerate a shit ton. This one thing I'm not exaggerating. Every psychiatrist I have seen, I walk into the office, okay, because they're all from referral. The ones I saw, I couldn't just see. I'd go through, you know, I'd get a referral to them. I'd walk in, no eye contact, you know, sitting there. already writing a prescription, right?

No fuck's given of the context of what's going on, just kind of assuming the worst, right? You know, ask me a question. I try to give him context. Just the typical condescending, patronizing. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. All right, Tyler, you're going to take this and this and this and then they give it to me, right?

It's like, no shot. None of them listened. None of them gave a shit, right? Like, there's a big difference between, you know, in, you know, an induced psychotic break versus, you know, some hereditary natural occurrence of one, right? Like, there's a difference, but they didn't give a shit about that, right? They didn't care that mine was induced through steroid usage and drug usage, right?

So, like, it was just this, all of them, too, all of them. And these are, like, top-rated psychiatrists. They just didn't give a fuck. Psychologists, on the other hand, I loved, right? I mean, it took me a long time, you know, and I hear this, this is common between a lot of people, and I think this will actually help people. You know, if you feel like your psychologist doesn't, you know, connect with you, listen, keep, keep moving around.

Keep, keep testing out new ones, you know. Eventually, you'll find one that's on your wavelength, right? That understands you. You know, there's some that are very, like, what's what I'm trying to look? Like, mathematical, that they're very, like, precise, rational, right? Like, there is no feeling and, you know, they don't understand the irrationalness, right? And I can't vibe with that kind of person, right? Yeah.

I can't do it. So I have to find someone that's on my wavelength, understands my feelings, my impulses, no matter how irrational they are, understands them on that level. And it took me, fuck, I probably, it took me probably six, seven months to find one person that ended up really, really connecting with me. And I remember, I'm going to cry. The moment I found that person, I remember, I tried to say, I tried to say one word. And I just broke, I cried the entire session for the first like two weeks.

Every session for the first two weeks, I had three sessions a week. I cried all of them. Just like six sessions, I only cried. Like there was nothing else said. He said, okay, see you next week. I just cried for six weeks. For six sessions. It was just insane.

Yeah, it was crazy. But yeah, you'll find one if you hop around. There is someone out there for you that will understand you. So definitely keep trying. You know, don't be unmotivated if you don't find the right psychologist in the first go. Yeah. Train, I'm really glad you're kind of sharing. that message with everyone because I'd echo at 100%.

I think that fit is so important. And there are so many different styles of therapy and styles of therapists and even styles of psychiatrists. And I think that like, you know, the mental health clinical training is is not precise. Right. You have all these different theories and all these different perspectives and like you've got Freudian people and Jungian people and cognitive behavioral therapists and psychodine psychodynamic therapists and people who are a little bit mindfulness-oriented.

And there's just so many different flavors. And I think really therapy, because we don't have the instruments that the rest of medicine does. You know, when you've got CT scans and blood tests and, and, you know, COVID nasal swabs and things like that, there's a lot of precision about how to handle things right and how to do things, you know, what's right and what isn't.

Whereas my experience in therapy has been that it's really more or just as much art as it is science. There's a lot of science to it. But, you know, we don't, it's interesting. There have been studies done where people will try to classify, like, characteristics of patients and classify characteristics of therapists, and they'll try to match them based on using data. And it turns out that that doesn't work.

You know, you can try to do as much data analysis as you want to. You can say, oh, like, Train has a history of addictions, and this therapist has a lot of experience with addictions. maybe there'll be a good match. Turns out that you can't really, it just doesn't work. Can't match people. Yep. There's no formula.

Well, people haven't figured it out yet. I think that there's still a formula out there. But, you know, we just haven't, we don't have the precision. We haven't been able to capture that secret sauce that allows you to see therapists for six months and see this next person. And then, like, really open up to them for two weeks. And also for that therapist to know how to respond to you, opening up for them to understand that, you know, these tears have been built up and the dam is opening up and that like we got to just let them out. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective.

I think. Thank you. No problem. I actually, uh, after I stopped using a drugs or hard drugs like that, like heroin and stuff like that like meth, after I stopped like entirely, I actually went back and helped some of my old friends that were addicted and, you know, obviously I try to get them to a psychologist, you know, after I finally got them out of denial. Heroin denial is one of the, it's like, I don't, I don't give a shit. Like, I don't, I've seen gambling denial. I've seen every drug denial. Heroin denial is so frustrating. It just, if they don't want it, it's not going to happen. You could put them, you could force them. I've seen parents do it. You could force them two years of rehab. The moment they come out, they might be good for a week. You better bet your

ass. The first difficult thing that they face, they can't handle. And, they go right back to it. How did you? You have to, you have to want it. What's up? How did you come out of your denial? Well, I wanted to, right? Like, that's the difference. Like, so there's one thing that I had that helped me a lot in that. And it's what I talked about earlier. I kind of have this. So my anchor, it's a dream. It's an idea. It's highly improbable, but not. You know, impossible. And that's my anchor in life. And I've taken that and I've buried it deep, deep, deep within me where I can never be taken away, you know, unless I'm killed. And that is what got me out of it. It's to achieve that, to get that, like the wanting of that, the feeling that that gave me, you know,

it. But was that always there? Yeah, it was. It's been there since I can remember. So I'm going to express a little bit of skepticism just because I want to kind of push you on this. And because I'm sure that you'll have the answer, but I think it's important to find. Because like here's, here's what I'm thinking. Okay. So the dream was always deep within you. And then there's this period of time in college where despite the dream. And then when I ask you, how did you get out of it?

You said, well, I started wanting my dream. But then at the same time, like, I don't see how that's different from when you were in college and you were using and finding that balance and you, the dream was always there. So still, like, how did you move from like where you were in college to like wanting to quit? I understand that you say that you have to want to. So then the question kind of I ask sort of as a clinician and I ask like theoretically and also like educationally is how does what was your journey to change your wants to value that over the heroin or other things? Like how did you come out of the denial? I get that that's the anchor.

That was your North Star. But like, why did you start caring about moving towards the North Star to begin with? I think it's, I, you know, I've never really thought about that. But if I were to try to think about it right now on the spot and kind of give you a quick thing, I'd have to reflect on it a lot more to give you an actual accurate answer. But if I were to guess right now, I would say it's how I was raised. I would say it's my parents. It's the love they kind of instilled within me.

You know, they kind of taught me like, they gave me a self-worth. They gave me, you know, like, I think that's what it is. Because I remember all the times that I stopped, it wasn't this thing where I planned it, okay, I'm going to do this for four days because I have four days, right? That's not how I went down. I did it day one. I didn't think of the next day, right? And then each of these times, every time it never failed, I'd wake up randomly after

day six or day five or day seven or day four. I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? Right. Like, it's like, it was never me to begin with. I'd be like, what the fuck am I doing? And that one realization where the other me kind of wakes up, right? I don't know if we want to go as deepest thing. Maybe it's the bipolar split personality.

I don't know. But the other me would be like, what the fuck's going on here, right? And that me would always come out after the aftermath of me fucking my body. And my body was weak. And I think like that weakness allowed the other me to come out. I don't know. I don't know. This sounds like some crazy talk.

I know it does. But like that was how it went down. to meet, man. Okay, cool. Yeah. So that's what happened every time. So, so then, but let me ask you another question that. I'm going to keep pushing you. Okay. And, and it's because I, like, I think you're, you're getting there. Right. I think this is like valuable. Because I think this is, this is the question that everyone asks, right? Train is like, how? How did you quit? And what I'm going to press you on now is that, like, okay, so you'd wake up, you'd be weak in your body. Like, you'd say, like, what the fuck am I doing? and then like this like sort of this train that was built up through the love of your parents

and like this self-respect and things like that basically like shown through right it's almost like you have cloudy skies and the sun's always there and sometimes the clouds part and you get this like ray of sunshine so like after six days of a bender you get that ray of sunshine where you're kind of like but then what happens is the clouds always come back right because then a month later two months later, three months later, you start using again. So what changed? What, what changed so that the awareness, the awareness of it. So I'll tell you what I mean by that. What changed is, I've always so because, you know, I forgot what the fuck it's called. I think it's called like hyper, like, it's having bipolar and split personality, you can have a version of it where you're not aware and

there's a version of it where you're hyper aware, but you can't do anything about it still, right? that's kind of been me in every aspect of my life so because of my hyper awareness of the situation right like I understood what the it's like I think I got lucky and my overthinking or I don't know what it was I'm not sure what it was but here's the point everyone says not even once everyone says this is addicting right and because of my you know ability to go on and off because I you know to, I never really got, like, that the urge was never to do the heroin. The only urge I ever had was maybe the withdrawals were fucking shit and I didn't want to deal with them today, right?

But it was never the actual heroin, but I realized a little bit later on what they not even once meant. I realized what the addiction is. The addiction is what you just said, where the clouds come back. Now, what I've done is I've normalized the new baseline for my sorrows and for my escape, right? For a lot of people, that baseline is alcohol, it's weed, and that's it. That's where they go. Everything else is scary.

It's a no-no. But once you open up the realm and you realize, holy shit, I've popped this pill before this feels the same. This isn't that scary thing on the commercial, which it is, by the way. Right. Once you do that, that is your new baseline. So the next time that I feel sad, depressed and fucked up with nothing going for me, I'm not going to think I'm going to have a drink.

I'm going to think, hey, what can I buy some heroin? Right. And I realized that is the lifelong addiction of the drug because it is now the normalized new baseline for me. And once I realized that, I understood it. Like, that's kind of like, that was like half the part where it, I realized like it just needs to stop. It needs to be done. Otherwise, how did you realize it? I mean, this is going to sound crazy, but this is a different, I guess this is a different talk.

I guess that this would go into the bipolar split personality, OCD part of it all. But so every three to four months, I'll wake up and I'll literally like whole new style, whole new taste of food, different body composition, everything different, everything you can think of, favorite color different, what I'm into, right? And my, you know, my poor girlfriend, you know, I feel so that she's such a good girl, she's such an amazing person, but she has to kind of deal with it. But I just get uninterested and, you know, I change completely.

Like, I'm talking full body composition change, right? Like, I'm talking, like, from, you know, just normal body to, like, everything tight, athletic. Like, it's weird. It's weird. I don't understand it. I've been explained to it 100 times. You just wake up some days and you're ripped?

No, no, no. No, it's like every four months, five months, that's like the cycle. No, I'm not ripped, but it's just like things are tighter. Okay. And my body composition is different. Like tension? The way I taste, the way I smell. Everything's different.

Okay. I think, like, I don't know how to answer. How did I know? I think that I, I just kind of woke up. I'm like, what am I doing? This is not, this is disgusting. I just, there was a side of me. I did not fuck with it.

It was, it was a shame, right? Like, and, and that's, that's, that's, that's been the lifelong shit. It's been the curse of my fucking mental disease. I sit there for so long, working, progressing, building on myself. And then one day I wake up and I black out for like three months. And that three month me ruins everything. Toss my money out. Don't give a fuck.

Go party. Fuck my body up. Stop the gym. Gambling everything away. I don't care. And then I wake up again, right? Three months after that. Not remembering a fucking thing.

Everything gone. And I'm disgusted, right? Because that, like, does that make any sense? It's some crazy fucking shit. That I can relate to, oddly enough. I mean, I think, For me, it was more with gaming. But, you know, in my first couple years of college and even high school, it was like, you know, I disappear.

So start of the semester, this semester is going to be different, right? I'm going to study hard. For the first week, I do fantastic. First weekend rolls around, start playing games. You know, Sunday night, Saturday night, I stay up super late, wake up late on Sunday. Sunday night, I stay up super late, miss my class on Monday. Fuck it. I missed one class.

I can afford to miss a class. Skip the rest of my classes on Monday game. Tuesday rolls around. Yeah, I do that too. Classic excuses. I like that. And then, you know, it's like, now that I missed one class,

like I'll start off, it'll be better tomorrow. It'll be better tomorrow. And then like that doubt starts creeping up. At least for me, I knew I was making mistakes. I was like, it's happening again.

It's happening again. I'd be like. Well, that shows itself through like anxiety, depression. Like that's what it comes out as from your subconscious, right? Yeah. So it would start to come out from my subconscious. And I would say I'm doing it again. And I'd snap the door closed on it.

I definitely went to that all that myself too. Yeah. That's happened to me quite a bit. And then like anything to keep it from coming out of the subconscious. So then I got to play more and more and more and more and more. And then I found myself spiraling. and I knew I was fucking up my life. I think the really interesting thing is, you know, train,

I know it sounds like you're not making sense, but this is the story that I hear over and over and over again. This is why Addictions is so hard, because I think at the end of the day, like there are a couple of questions that have been bouncing around in my mind. There are going to be people watching right now who may be where you were in the middle of college,

where you thought you were different, you thought you could handle it. And what I'm trying to figure out is like what can we explore in today's like discussion that will help that person understand. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got I I know. I understand what you're asking now. Okay. So here is the moment. Here's how I realized it needs to stop. Here's how I realized it needs to be done. Somewhere. So I actually wrote this thesis. it was a very informal one. It was kind of, I was fucking around. I shouldn't even call it a thesis. I just called it a paper.

Delusions of grandeur and shit like that. Call it what in this, train. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like that there's this, you know, obviously, you know, I don't have the stats to back it, but, you know, just from, you know, it's anecdotal. Just say it, train. I feel like there's this age category from like 18 to like 24,

where we are as men at least. suffering from the most, just like the deepest denial, delusions of grandeur, like, we are different and every justification, like that we can, like, just everything that can, like, some crazy shit like that. The point that allowed me to understand and stop is somewhere in the psychotic break, which I guess isn't something you want to hear, but like somewhere in the psychotic break, I realized I wasn't different. I realized that I was the same as everyone and that's it.

Like I literally, I just realized I was not different. I was not special. There wasn't this mystical force guarding me and watching over me that, you know, when I would survive a car crash and I said someone's watch, there's a purpose, right? That's all bullshit, right? Like, I mean, knock on wood, you know, God forbid, maybe there was someone, but like it doesn't tie into that, right? like or how I passed this exam or how I did this or how I guessed on this and that got right right. I just realized I was the same as others. When I realized that, I realized that this

rationalization or I guess you shouldn't call it that, but this justification I was making that this excuse I was giving myself that I can control this is wrong because this can't be controlled. And then that's kind of what led me down that path. I think it was the discovery and understanding that I am not different, right? Like, you know, your parents are going to tell you that every day, like, and maybe in different, different fields you are. Maybe in soccer, you're better than, you know, the 1%, right? And you're great, right? But I'm talking like, you know, foundationally as a human being, right? Like, I think the most common thing I've seen for my friends is I can read people. That's the most common, like, delusion and delusions of grandeur,

like denial I've seen from people who think they're different. I can read people. I know when you're lying, right? But if you actually look deeper into that, like, the only reason you know someone's lying and you can read into them is. because you've seen traits from either things that you've done, you know, personal traits you have and experiences you've lived through, right? And from that, if you're smarter enough, you'll realize, holy fuck, I'm not able to read him because I'm different. I'm not to read him because I am the same, right?

And then from there, you kind of humble. You get humble and you realize you need to get your shit together. That's kind of what happened. Does that make sense? Makes perfect sense. Yeah. So good news is that I don't think. you have to have a psychotic break to realize that.

Although I'm not surprised. That's why I want to bring that up. There's a lot of cool stuff here, Train. A lot that I think needs to be talked about. Can I kind of take the reins for a second? Take the reins. Can I grab a? Yeah, grab whatever.

I'm going to take a piss. Yeah. Let's do it. Okay, so I'm just going to kind of like feel free to jump in. I'm just going to sort of like think through this because I think, train, you've said so much, man. First of all, thank you so much for sharing all this. I think, you know, I know a lot of it's pretty heavy.

stuff. I know a lot of it may seem embarrassing, but I think it's been really enlightening. The first thing to understand is that like, okay, so people are in denial, right? That's the biggest problem. It doesn't really matter if you're talking about addictions or other things. But people are in denial. Like you said, we start off by sort of telling ourselves it's okay for us. Like we're different, we can handle it. It's in balance. You know, and then what happens is your mind point to the things that are in balance. It's setting up kind of like this kind of fake news sort of like situation where you're going to point to your GPA and you're going to point to this, you're going to point to that,

and your mind is going to tell you, see, because of these things, we're actually fine. You see, those guys have their shit together and they're using, it's going to selectively ignore on a Saturday you wake up bruised and battered because you got into a fight last night. It's going to gloss over that part. it's going to gloss over the parts where like, oh, my parents are like, you know, think I have a problem or these people. It's going to gloss over all kinds of stuff. And that's what really denial is. It's sort of like this very selective interpretation of your events.

And then you kind of went on to sort of say like, yeah, I'm not sure exactly. You use these terms like, I realized, right? I woke up one day and it just dot, dot, dot. And this is what makes addictions really confusing is because when you ask people, their journey, what they tell you is like a change in their mind as opposed to actions. And as human beings, we know how to duplicate actions, but we don't know how to duplicate realizations. And this is something that in Sanskrit we talk about a lot, which is that there are two words for knowledge. One is vidya, which is information and is transmissible.

And the second is Nyan, which is understanding and is subjective. So vidya is objective. So vidya is objective and nyan is subjective. And as a society, generally speaking, in Western society, or just globally now, we value Vidya over Nyan. We say that unless you can explain it to me, unless you can prove it to me, unless it is objective, it does not have value. So our society has evolved to like appreciate science over opinion, right? Objectivity over subjectivity. And in doing that, we've lost the subjective. We've lost because what happened in you, was not an objective change, it was a subject of change. It was in realizing. Right. So realizing is not on a book. Information is on a book. And we value things like there was that guy on YouTube who was

like, I read 300 books a day or whatever, right? He talked about like reading all these books and how like because he's smart because he reads a ton. But the question is what do you understand? What do you absorb? How does change happen inside you? And this is what's really challenging about addictions. is if you talk to people about their journey, what they say is, I woke up one day and it was just different. And then everyone who's struggling with the addiction is like, well, what the fuck am I supposed to do with that? How do I wake up one day and be different?

And so this is where there are two important pieces, okay? The first is that I want you guys to understand that that subconscious change, even though it reaches a tipping point, like for train at a particular point, that subconscious change is being built over time. So what we hear from train is that there's like this addictive force, which let's say like has a strength of 58. And then there's like the insightful, like loving train that's deep down within him. That's got a strength of like 10. And every time you have a bender, you wake up and then like that that strength of 10 sort of like looks at your life and is like what's going on here.

And every moment you have that awareness, you level up to 12. And then you go on another bender. And then like because 58 is bigger than 12, right? and then like you level up again. I have to re-cl clarify something. Yeah. Now I understand why you gave me that example of you felt that. So what I was explaining to you of when I like black out for three months and I'm different

everything, that wasn't, I wasn't using drugs. That was me normal, sober, right? That was just my bipolar, right? Like that's what that was. Right? So four or five months, does that make sense? I wasn't referring to my drug use. Like this is past the drug use.

This is just what happens to this day. Like right now it happens. Sure, sure. I think I tease that apart that you still struggle with this because you mentioned your girlfriend has to deal with it and things like that. So I think I was aware of that. Yeah, yeah. But I still think that as you go through the substance use, like you're going to have these moments where the sun shines through. And every time that happens, you level up. And eventually what happens is it one day you wake up and then like the true self is it like a 59 or 60. And that's when you start to win against the addiction. And what I see from people, people that I work with with addictions is they'll kind of say like, oh, I was sober for nine months, and then I relapsed. And they're filled with shame. And they're like, oh, I fucked it up. I threw it all away, right? Because we're a society that values quantifiable results. It's all about Tesla's stock price and, you know, where I am on the, on the ladder for a particular video game. And how much money is

in my bank account. It's all about numbers. And we say, I threw away nine months of sobriety. But what I see with people that I work with is that, you know, you threw away nine months this writing, no big deal. You threw away nine months. You don't have to, you relapsed. Fine. You relapsed for like a day. It doesn't have to be like a nine-month bender, right? You can still change that. And over time, the duration of relapses and the frequency of relapses decreases as long as you keep on becoming more aware. Yes. Yes. And this is the key thing is that this is an issue of Nyan, not vidyas. You can't learn it from a book. And so what people need to understand

is that they can listen to a thousand conversations with train, but train's answer is never going to work for them, because what they need to do is not learn, they need to realize. And experience. Yeah, experience, but the other interesting thing about realization

is that learning implies that knowledge is on the outside. Realize implies that knowledge is actually already within you. right so it's interesting when people use the word i realize that means you already knew on some level you've always known on some level so instead of looking outside people need to like look within right i know it sounds kind of generic yes that's that's that's it that's and then if we listen to your

psychotic break so this is kind of interesting that there's a shared realm between psychosis meditation and hallucinogen use which is the way that it affects this part of your brain called the default mode network. And the default mode network is the part of your brain that lets you look at you. So when we kind of say that like human beings are different from animals because we're self-aware, and there's a particular cognitive test you can do on some animals where they can recognize themselves in a mirror, that implies that they have the capacity to be, how can I say this?

They can look at themselves. So they can be the object of your own observation. And the default mode network is the thing that allows you to look at yourself. Now, this is kind of interesting because in depression, the default mode network actually gets really, really overblown. And someone in depression is always thinking about themselves. They're thinking, oh, I'm a piece of shit. These people don't like me. They'd be better off without me, all that kind of stuff.

And so, hold on, there's a lot of, what is going on? Sorry. I'm confused why there's a bunch of stuff being banned. from chat. Well, I'm actually looking at the usernames and your mods are doing a very good job because I recognize that Assad 9 guy, he's a fan of mine. He's good dude, but he's toxic. So that seems a good band. Good job, moderator. I'm going to keep going. So what I was kind of saying is that with the default mode network, it's like you get way too preoccupied with yourself. And in depression, it gets way worse. So people are always thinking about like if you're having a bad day, my default

mode network is hyperactive. So I think that you having a bad day is my fault if my default mode network is active. So I can't shake my own ego. And what I'm really hearing for you in that psychotic break is what you got past was your own ego, right? Like when you say, I am different, that's your ego. And when you shatter that ego and you begin to say, I am no longer different, I'm the same as everyone else. And so it seemed like for you that happened through psychosis, but this is where, you know, psychedelics can do it, meditation can do it, self-reflection can do it, journaling can do it, community service can do it. Developing humility and sort of performing an ego-dectomy, the removal of your ego, is actually like the most important thing to gain insight.

You need to stop doing that thing where your mind, your ego goes to your intellect and bullies it and says, hey, I need to come up with a really, really selective way for me to feel good about me using the substance. And so you ignore a bunch of stuff. And when your ego gets removed from the equation, then you stop ignoring that stuff. You start to see yourself as you are with all of your flaws and all of your strengths. And that's how you gain security. That's how you get self-acceptance. That's how you gain self-love. Because we heard you kind of talk about those concepts, but I think these two things are really, really tied together. And the most bizarre thing, train, I think, is that, like, when I listen to your story, I think about your karma and just what your addiction has done for you in terms of your personal journey and how you've grown so much through walking this journey, how you've come to learn so much about yourself, how you've come to learn and understand other people, you know, and like have a have like a back pocket full of wild ass awesome stories.

which, you know, on the one hand, we kind of don't want to glorify because that doesn't, you know, I'm not advocating that people do it. But like, let's at least acknowledge that that's a wild story to listen to, right? I got some crazy shit for you, Dr. K. Believe me. Oh, man, dude. Like, I hope you, so like, this is kind of weird. It's a strange value judgment to place. But I really hope that you or someone in your family, like your immediate siblings have kids

and then they have kids because you would make one hell of a granddad. I'm an only child, unfortunately. But, yeah. my cousins. I can absolutely see you at like 70 and like bent over and like telling stories to your grandkids. They're like, what? Oh, for sure. They're like 16 and they're like telling stories about, you know, how grandpa used to do this. That'd be nuts. I think one, to kind of touch upon what you're saying, I think I actually want to add something. I, you know, I think it's one of the biggest, biggest issues with today's society and the way, you know, I'm not sure if this is the way the world is or just the way America is because of America's social structure and shit like that.

But one of the biggest issues that I see is the lack of communication and honesty between people. Now, what I mean by that is everybody has their issues. Everybody has issues that if they communicated with others and if they were honest about, right? And I'm not talking to people that aren't ready to express them. I'm talking on people who are intentionally hiding them in order to front that their life is better than the other. Right. A good example of this is, let's say, back in school, there's always a group of kids that they were miserable. You knew that, like I knew at least, they were miserable studying for this exam.

They hated it. But when the kid that had, you know, a harder time paying attention would go ask them for help or say, hey, is this really easy for you? They'd say, yeah, this is cake. I knew this shit like five years ago, right? But in reality, so now that person is going to think that they're dumb. That person's going to think that there's an issue. The person's going to think the issues within themselves, right? Everyone's fronting to each other.

Everyone's making their life seem absolutely amazing. Like they're absolutely perfect. Like they absolutely understand everything. They have no stress. They have no sadness. They have no happiness. They have no this. They have no that.

Just to look good for others. And what this does is, sure, in the short term, you look good. good. You look like everything's great. But you're the most sad. And that sadness would be cured if you're just coming to say, hey, listen, right? Comfort in others is so powerful. If you can just be honest, like, hey, yeah, fucking terrible. I had to study for eight hours. My parents made me. I would be honest, right? The dude will feel much better. Like, oh, fuck, then I got to go do the same. Right. But like that ripple effect of that single lie just to look good, it causes so much shit. I'm telling you. Like, and this applies to every field in every social situation for everything. So I

know how the fuck we solve that, but that's a big issue I've noticed throughout my life. Does that make any sense? Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense. So, you know, we have an interesting thing that we tell our coaches, which is kind of, like, so we try not to be judgmental, right? Like, as a society, we say that judgments are bad. Like, you shouldn't judge me. Like, who are you to judge me?

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, so, like, if we think about it, lying and fronting is about, did I use that term, right? Yeah. Fronting is about avoiding a particular judgment or creating a particular judgment, right? If I walk in before the test and I say, oh, yeah, I didn't really study for it, but I'm going to crush it. And secretly I was like laboring away for 80 hours over the last week. And I want to make it look easy.

And I want everyone to know, you know, how smart I am. Oh, fucking claps. You all have to study for this shit? Yep. I do quantum mechanics on the toilet, you know, scrubs. And so we say something that's kind of interesting, which has been tricky for coaches to learn, is that I actually don't advocate for them to be non-judgmental. What I advocate for is for them to be authentic and compassionate. And if your client is doing something bad, you absolutely judge them for it, but you do it with compassion.

You should be authentic. Like authentic and authenticity and compassion, I think are like our big. antidotes to a world full of like lies infrunting right we have to like we have to hold people accountable for what they say and they do but we should do it in a compassionate way because I think non-judgmentalness is kind of tricky because like if someone fucks up what we're not going to judge them for it like how does that help anyone any you know it's kind of weird but I think it's part of the you know cancel culture and this kind of stuff is that like on the one hand we judge really really harshly if it's sort of like

righteous. And then on the other hand, it's like you can't, you know, if I give a talk on the internet about the, you know, mortality risk of obesity with COVID-19, which there's an overwhelming amount of data for, suddenly I'm fat-shaming. And it's like, I'm not allowed to say that because someone's feelings are hurt and they feel judged. And that's sort of where like, you know, as a psychiatrist, I realized a long time ago, you know, part of my job is to judge people, but to do so, like, they deserve honesty for me. Like, they deserve authenticity for me. You know, they deserve for me to not lie to them. And then you have to be careful because that's how you can turn into one of these blunt assholes where, like, I'm,

I'm a truth speaker. I'm going to go tell everyone how ugly they are because it is my ideal to be true. But then you have to temper that with compassion. I hate that. Yeah. That's the biggest problem I noticed, right? That there's this, there are these differing definitions of, you know, real and fake, you know, authentic and, you know, disingenuous, whatever the fuck, right? And one of them is very childish and immature, and that's the one that I see used the most, right? And it's, if you're real, you know, you never, you never lie, you see how it is, right? But it's like, when you grow older, you realize it's not black and white, right? It's very subjective. There's a lot of gray area, right? If, I meet my girlfriend's parents and I hate them, right?

I can't be like, hey, what's up, dickhead? I don't fucking like you, but I'm fucking your daughter, right? That's not right. It's not right. It might be how I feel, or not actually, please don't kill me, you know? But, right, that's not right. That says more about me in a negative way than it does a positive in the sense of realness, right?

Like, if anything, if I'm someone that is real, right, or someone that was authentic, I would have the maturity. I'd have the respect to understand that. It doesn't matter how I feel about this individual, right? I'm dating his daughter. I need to have respect for him. And I need to treat him kindly, right? And it's that simple, right?

So like, these are the problems in today's society. Yeah, go ahead. So, like, I see this a lot trained with, with people that I work with that I would call pseudo-spiritual. So, like, a lot of people that, you know, come across my world or, are like spiritual people who are like interested in spirituality. Sometimes it'll be like, you know, if we do consulting for like a company or something,

like someone who's spiritual will show up, like people in our community, you know, there's kind of spiritual. And sometimes people are pseudo-spiritual. And what I mean by that is they're like, they like, they have a big ego about being spiritual, but they're not actually like, they may work hard and they may like talk to talk,

but they're not really walking the walk in the most important ways. And a good example of that is like, so like, you know, people who sort of, to say that, you know, I'm going to live in the present. And I want to be present focused and I want to be like unattached. You know, and like they say these kinds of like spiritual things. So what that means is that like even though I have a girlfriend, if like in the in the present

moment, if I want to fuck someone else, I'm going to fuck them. You know, because that's like me being like authentic to myself, train. I want to be like my authentic self. I don't want to be like, you know, pinned down by like worldly conceptions. and I'm going to be like in the present moment and authentic to myself. And so this is like a classic example of like a pseudo-spiritual person. And it's really interesting because if you look at, you know, the system of yoga and, and like they're, they kind of have this hierarchy.

And what they say is that, you know, truthfulness is really important. But the most important thing is a hymsa or nonviolence. So truthfulness should always be subject to nonviolence. and so not hurting another human being trumps truthfulness and all truthfulness should only be shared if it is nonviolent truthfulness and so there's kind of this hierarchy

where like you're even if you're trying to be an authentic person so we kind of say authenticity with compassion with our coaches and I think that's a big part of like what they do and like I think that's a big part of what our community needs and craves is like you know this is something that I sort of dislike a little bit about therapy, I sometimes feel like therapy is way too non-judgmental personally.

So I tend to be like a judgmental therapist, where people will, you know, I'll be like, what the fuck, man? You kind of fucked up there. And so, you know, some of my colleagues will never say that to a client or a therapist or patient, and they'll be like, how could you ever, you know?

And it's like, I kind of feel like, you know, they know they're fucked up. I know they fucked up. We all know we fucked up. Let's call it what it is so that we can do something about. it. And especially in our community, people need to be called out for what they're doing. Yes, you have to do that. They're already getting the babying treatment from their parents and friends, right? Like, they need something like what you're doing. I agree with that completely. At least for me. So I think it's important to be compassionate. Like it's not calling them out for the sake of like justice. It's calling them out because it's like, hey, man, if you made a mistake, like, let's work on it so that you don't have to make that mistake anymore. Yes. But pretending it's okay is not how you fix a problem. You know? Agreed. So I'm with you. I know we're kind of off topic, but I think from a, you know, an addiction standpoint,

train, I thought it was like wonderful what you shared and kind of your journey and stuff. You know, I think I'm lucky that that you did make it through, right? Because it sounds like a lot of the stuff that you were doing was really dangerous. I'm lucky, yeah. And I cannot emphasize this enough. Like, that is not an RNG game that you guys want to be playing. It is not. It's not at all.

It's terrible. It's absolutely disgusting. terrible 100. And it, it, well, I'm going to say this one thing as well. It takes, listen, it takes a piece of you away, right? I'm not going to be as dramatic, you know, and, and, and reference it to like one of those movie things, you know, when you kill someone, it takes a piece of your soul away. But, like, it definitely takes a piece of something away from you when you touch these

drugs. I'd say any drugs, realistically. Like, I'd say any drugs. I'd say even the softest of drugs, you don't even classify as drugs. Like, I'm telling you, like, if I could go back, there's one. something I change, it would be like, even though it taught me a lot, giving me a lot of experience, I still would try to stay sober. The sober me, it was different, right?

Like, it, I'm telling you, it takes a piece. It takes a piece away that you never get back. So don't ever do it. Ever. Fucking trash. It's not worth. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Cool, man. Well, caffeine doesn't count. I'm doing caffeine happening. No matter what, you know what I'm saying. caffeine staying being off caffeine is really nice yeah it is

because then in two weeks when you drink it again it fucking juices you I like that yeah man so any I'm kind of thinking like I may

like you want to talk about meditation for a minute or any last thoughts questions how are you feeling hmm I like you Dr. K I like you too I like you doc

I like doc. So there's a... It's fine. D.K. Hey, DK. Dr. That's, I don't know.

Is there anything else? Is there anything else for you? I mean, I think, so a lot of people, I think, are going to be wondering, how do I get rid of my ego?

So I thought I would just share a different, a slightly different kind of meditative technique. There's also, there's also, there's all, so, so in between getting rid of ego, there's a trapdoor.

Okay? It's the last pura for the ego. And that trapdoor, it is damn near same as losing your ego. You understand? It is gaining an ego

through the loss of your ego. When you lose your ego, that's differentiating you from most people. Therefore, you find a new justification of why you're different without actually knowing you're different and thinking you've lost your ego. And that's the last trap door

you need to fucking pass before you actually lose it. Does that make sense? It's brilliant. So this is something that one of my teachers in India, a monk, told me like 17 years ago. And it's awesome.

It feels really full circle to hear it from you today. So he said there are two kinds of ego. There's the regular ego. And then there's the ego of having no ego. I've learned that one the hard way. Look at how spiritual I am. Look at how egosless I am. What's up, bitches?

Get on my level. Get on my egos level, you scrubs. get wrecked shitties you all with your big egos not like me that's right well said well said thank you

and so it's interesting because the process of sublivating your ego it gets subtler and subtler and subtler but I'll just share with you guys just to like I mean we can hop off the call if you want to or you can stay on but I was just going to share a quick technique about ego dissolution I can watch

on stream, just so you're more comfortable, you can do your thing. I'll watch on stream so you can just kind of connect with everybody. Okay, cool. Let's connect again for part six. We'll think of something for part six. I want to keep doing this. Part six has got to be something good. We can do story time.

We can talk about some crazy shit. We'll talk out something. Okay. We've got to do part six soon. And also, uh, also I'm going to send you a code where you can get my merch for free. You got to get this. It would look great on you. I'm telling you.

Okay. Thank you very much, train. I got you. No problem. Love you. Bye. Bye.