HealthyGamerGG - Pickup Artistry, Dating, & Building Confidence | Dr. K Interviews

Episode Date: September 10, 2020

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Welcome, buddy. Okay. And what am I calling you, friend? Alex. Alex. Okay. Yeah, so I was just going to tell it. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, I know there's sort of a click baity

title, which is that you spent eight grand on dating coaching. And so is there something in particular that you want to talk about today, Alex? Yes. I guess probably a good direction would be like in line of like, I can say like what would be like a better way for me to like get better at like connecting with people or also like what's kind of like blocking me in particular. Like when I say $8,000 grand on dating coaching, like a lot of people might think it's on like one big company. It was actually on, I spent $8,000 on seven personal dating coaches. So I had seven different dating coaches. Like basically how it was ran, they were like, they were like weekly Skype training.

like if you want me to go more into detail into that's like there's definitely a huge variety of like I kind of like how I did things sure I mean but the but the issue here is that like despite like you know having like seven different dating coaches I still pretty much got rejected by literally every single girl ever approached it's like they never even like gave me a chance pretty much okay like and I was actually like pretty clear on what my intentions were like when I defined approach like I would um I go up to them in person like the places where I would approach would be like on campus for example I would approach in stores sometimes in bars but right now I'm 20 years old so I'm under 21 so it kind of it costs me

extra money to get inside of bars. But yeah, so basically like on the streets, like on campus and stores and Okay, yeah, like I'm struck by the word approach. Like it's like you're going in for a bombing run. You know, we're like on the approach. Does that it sounds kind of like oh yeah. Another name for it is like Sargent. Another name for it is what? Sorry, Gene.

What does that mean? I might be wrong, but it might be like a military term. Something like your approach of women. I'm not that aggressive with. Yeah, I mean, okay. So a couple of things, Atomic. So Alex, thank you so much actually for coming on stream today and sharing some of these thoughts. Twitch chat feels, and I wouldn't recommend reading Twitch chat,

but Twitch chat feels like this is way too real. So I think it's something that a lot of, are, you know, a lot of people on Twitch struggle with. So thank you very much for sharing your perspective and all offering yourself up on the altar of sacrifice for the knowledge, growth, and entertainment and lulls of Twitch. Yeah, so can you tell me a little bit about, you know, how you decided to get a dating coach or, or kind of, how does that happen? Okay, so basically like what made me get a dating coach? Yeah, so basically, really, at the first time I, uh, my first dating coach was like in my senior year in high

school, like, like basically I was like, you know, extremely lonely. Like, I also just like struggle with socializing in general. And I was like, even before that, also like a watch a bunch of video programs as well. I like, tons of them. And I was like, video programs about what? Like, um, it's good like PUA. But, But there's also like this weird NLP stuff where you're like using language patterns to like, you know, attract women. What is PUA and NLP? So P-O-A is basically like pickup artists.

Okay. And NLP stands for neural linguistic programming. So it's kind of like, it's, it's very related to hypnosis, but you're like implementing it's into like your language to, I guess, hypnotize women. But that's, I guess, like, more of the creepier side of doing things. Yeah. So, I mean, I understand that it comes across as creepy, Alex. But I like that you're sort of representing it. I think the way that it's advertised, right?

That's sort of what they, that's what they set out to do. And so you said that you'd watched a bunch of videos. So even before we get to the dating coach, when did you start getting videos or start getting interested in this stuff? I mean, I'd say like my motivation was just like, like completely like dissatisfied like where I am right now. And when did you start to become dissatisfied? And I guess with women, with women in general, it was, I think it started like just as early as my freshman year in high school. Okay. And how old were you then?

Like when I was a freshman in high school. Yeah. maybe like 13 or something. Okay. So you were 13 years old. And can you tell me what feeling dissatisfied felt like? I mean, I was definitely like, like pretty lonely. I mean, I also kind of felt like alienated because I felt like I was being,

like I didn't think of myself as like a weird person, but even like, let's say, it was just like a normal group setting. Like people ask me like, hey Alex, how are doing like, and I would like, say stuff and then like, okay, they just need. They would what? I mean, it's like everyone else like talks to each other very normally, but when people would talk to me, it's just like normal, like how high is, how is your day? And like, yeah, it's very good. And I kind of like have trouble with like going beyond like small talk. Sure. So I guess I think. I felt inadequate, with my ability to socialize. Sure.

It was a great part of it. Yeah, so, so, you know, you speaking of neuro-linguistic programming. So, you know, let's, how are you feeling right now, by the way, Alex? I feel fine. Okay. So, you know, it's interesting because you kind of talked about being in a normal group. And you also use the word like feeling pretty lonely and alienated. So I'm wondering if you sort of felt like an outsider among normal people.

Yeah. Right. Very much. And everyone else is sort of like doing this thing and it sort of seems so like effortless. They're just like talking to each other. And you don't. Yeah. It seems to me like you felt like you were inadequate at sort of being able to engage with like other human beings on kind of like an authentic level.

Yep, pretty much. And so what did you mean? sounds exactly and and what did you how did you understand that how did you think about that like what did you like because when we were faced with a situation right like our mind tries to make sense of it how did you make sense of that I mean like I kind of like feel like there was like nothing in particular that seemed like there was anything wrong with me except that like I just really like sucked at connecting with people how to socialize like I feel like there's like some thing that I'm like unaware of. And I've always I've also been like treated very

mainly like ever since I was a kid as well. So I'm kind of curious about that, but let me see if I kind of understand you here. So I'm kind of trying to put myself in your shoes and maybe I was to a certain degree at some point in my life. And I can imagine that maybe you felt like you couldn't see anything wrong with you and it didn't feel like there was anything wrong with you, but when you looked from the outside, like clearly there's something like wrong with you. You just don't know what it is. Like you can't see it and you can't feel it, but when you look at the results of your interactions, something's not adding up. Yeah, that sounds exactly. Right. And so that's got to be kind of confusing because

you know, you have evidence that something's wrong, but you have no vision. you can't detect what's wrong. Yeah. And what happens in your mind when you kind of come to that conclusion? It's a hard question, by the way, because I'm asking you to boil down a lot of, I think, what has taken years to kind of understand? How do you see yourself? What's the conclusion that you come to?

So basically, like, what's my opinion, like, on myself? Sure. I mean, I guess, like, if we're talking about, like, like, when I was a lot of, like, when I was a freshman like yeah I definitely uh I used to like hate myself a lot I guess like nowadays um to be honest I don't really like kind of like have a relationship with myself anymore although if I do look in the mirror like I'll have this reaction where I kind of like just cringe so so at least on a very subconscious level I do think like I'm kind of like cringy and what is cringy like that basically it's like socially like inadequate

Okay. Do you feel inadequate? Um, yeah, I'd say yeah. Okay. That's some powerful stuff you just shared, man. To hate yourself as a freshman, to look in the mirror and like, at yourself cringing. Because I almost get the sense that you catch yourself. It's not something that you actively do, but it's just like right. Yeah. Yeah. I literally like a subconscious reaction. Yeah.

I may use the word visceral there. So it's like, because it sounds like you're aware of it on some level, right? It's like something inside you is like, oh, like look at that asshole. And then it kind of, and then you like, it sounds like you've learned how to push that way and not let that be active. Does that make sense? Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Because if I'm, let me just try to put together what I heard. So you used to hate yourself.

And now you said that you don't have a relationship with yourself. And so, but at the same time, sometimes you hatch those feelings of hate when you look at yourself in the mirror. So that really feels to me like suppression. Does that make sense? That it used to be conscious. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. And now it's become subconscious, but it's still there. And sometimes it pokes its head out. Yeah, totally.

Yeah. So what did you hate yourself for as a freshman? Yeah, I think it was definitely because I, you know, struggled with things like making friends and it's like socialized in general. And like I felt like that was like the one part of my life that was like very bad at. Like I remember like when I was a kid, like my parents just tell me I used to be like extremely shy. But nowadays that actually doesn't apply to me at all. like I can like go up to an approach women very easily like even out at public.

Approach. And like, you know, state my. Yeah, yeah. And also I state my premise. And what does that mean state your premise? So I'm going to pick up artists community. It's basically like letting her know like what the whole conversation is like all about. Like state your premise.

Like an example could be like. Like if you're using a direct opener, for example, it could be like, like, wow, I thought you were very beautiful, wanted to come and talk to you. At that point, she may realize that you're trying to, like, seduce her, but also it could be like me asking her routes. Or I guess, like, kind of, like, trying to, like, pull her from, like, the certain venue. Like, if she says, like, she wants to go to, like, a Freebirds Brito place and I'm, like, at the targets, I'd be like, oh, I mean, can I come with your friends? or yeah basically like asking her the one that did the most was just like asking her for a number like to go on on a date with her okay and how does that work what you mean i mean how does that work out for you yeah i mean basically um uh the longest i have ever i mean the okay yeah the farthest i've ever been

to and with getting a woman was basically she gave me her number and then she literally like a ghost with me. So, like, I haven't really even found like a date before. Okay. How does it feel to say that? I guess I'm not sure. Like, you're leaving, I guess. What's relieving about it? I mean, I kind of like, I'm not sure. Yeah. So I'm asking you hard questions, Alex. You're doing a fantastic job. And I think we're talking about-

Yeah, do. The simplest ones are usually the hardest. The ones that have to do with understanding ourselves, it's really easy to understand women, right? Like the PUA folks have them all figured out. Far harder to understand yourself. I didn't mean that as a dig. I hope you didn't take it that way. But it occurred to me that that came across as a little bit condescending.

Did it feel that way to you? Not really. Okay. So, you know, it's interesting, Alex, because I can imagine saying I've never really been on a date with someone if you're, you know, live streaming on the internet in front of thousands of people. What I would expect is that you would feel shame. Did you feel shame? Honestly, not at all.

Yeah. So there's something really cool with that, right? Like there's something very special and I think something really important about, because if you ask, I'm sure if you ask people, hey, what would you guys say about like going on the internet? and live streaming your you know that you've never been on a date and you feel relief and i think that's something that's really really important powerful and worth understanding although i don't know we're going to quite get to it right the second do you have any idea why you would feel relief instead of shame if not we can cover it at the end i'm just kind of curious it's a hard question i mean i mean for one i guess i don't really um feel shameful about you know wanting to get better with

women. Good for you. Like I know like a lot of people think that makes you a creep and a lot of people, you know, call me a creep, but I know that I'm not really, you know, I'm not doing anything that's bad. Like I'm not like I'm not harassing anyone. Like, like, so yeah. Okay. Man, Alex, sorry if I'm bouncing around a little bit, but there's like a lot of what you're saying that I think has immense value and there's a lot to understand. Is it okay if we kind of go back to like earlier and then sort of maybe do a little bit of a timeline? So you said that you used to hate yourself, but you used to hate yourself as a freshman and and that was because you had trouble talking to people. Yeah, I definitely. What did you hate about yourself? Yeah. What did you hate about yourself?

I mean, oh yeah, I heard the question. I was just like kind of thinking, yeah, I mean, I guess, Because like, I just was like very socially awkward pretty much. Okay. Okay, so that's so and then you said earlier that you were treated meanly. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, treated badly. Yeah, definitely. That was when I went to like this other school in elementary, yeah, basically I used to live in a different state from like, you know, K through eighth grade than

I moved to another state, you know, you know, for high school. Yeah, basically, yeah, the kids would, like, treat me, like, very bad, like, especially, like, during a recess, like, I was always, I guess, like, I go by myself, and the other guys were, like, you know, playing basketball and, you know, playing flag football, and I was, like, the only one, like, not joining in. And what kept me? I mean, it's not just that, but they're also like, you know, call me names and stuff. What would they call you? Yeah, I don't really like to talk about that, to be honest, but.

Okay. Thanks for letting me know. Can I ask you, I'm not going to ask you any more questions about that, sort of. But what I would like to understand is what makes you uncomfortable talking about it. Is it okay if I ask that? I mean, I suppose. You're also allowed to say no. I want to respect your space, man, but I think it's important. And if you want me to, I'm happy to explain why I think it's important. I mean, it's kind of hard for, like, me describe, like, why feels uncomfortable, like, about talking, talking about it.

Yeah. Can I tell you why I think you feel uncomfortable? Yeah, please. So, you know how early we were talking about how do you protect yourself, Alex, from the hate. that you feel towards yourself so how do i protect myself from like the hate i feel for myself yeah what do you do you used to hate yourself you don't have a relationship with yourself anymore right how do you protect yourself from that you push it away yeah yeah right so yeah this oppression you talked about perfect so now i think the reason that you're uncomfortable is because i'm

asking you to not suppress. I'm asking you to do the very opposite. I don't think any of this shit has anything to do with women. So if we think about this, so you're ready for the answer? I know we're only like 20 minutes in, but I've got an answer for you. Do you want, I mean, it could be wrong. So more likely to be wrong because I'm making a big judgment, right? So I have a hypothesis. So it's not an answer. That's actually arrogant. I have a hypothesis. I have a hypothesis and I'm going to run it by you. And then I want to know what you think. And then if you're okay with it, we can explore it. I know everyone here is being voyeuristic because they want to hear about this new who spent $8,000 on a dating coach, et cetera, et cetera. We're not

going to give them what they're looking for. We're actually going to try to help you and help them instead. Get to the pickup art of stuff later. So I want you to just, I have one question for you. how do we learn how to see ourselves like you see yourself a particular way i see myself a particular way how did i learn how to see myself i mean i suppose a lot of it can come from like your environments like yeah and you like stuff that like happens you yep right so so what were you taught about yourself from k to eight yeah basically like A bunch of negative stuff like that. Yep.

Just like wouldn't fit in. Yep. And so how did you feel at 13? You went to a new high school. But what did you know about yourself? Before you even stepped into the door, what did you know about yourself? Alex is a guy who doesn't. Yeah, I basically carried over the same stuff.

Yeah, Alex is a guy who, you know, like isn't normal. Absolutely. And then you open yourself up to a really dangerous thing. which is something called a confirmation bias. So you start with the get-go before you even step in the door. Alex is a guy who doesn't fit in. Everything else that you've tried to fix that, so you've tried to fix that, right?

Like you've spent a lot of time and effort, and I don't think you're like a creep. I think it's quite noble if you see a weakness in yourself to try to get better at it. I actually salute you for doing it. get. But let me ask you another weird question, Alex. Why don't, if we try to fix something and it doesn't get fixed, what are the reasons that it doesn't get fixed? So let me actually ask in a different way. Sorry, that's too abstract of a question. So I'm a doctor, right? Sometimes as a doctor, I use treatments. Right. And I use treatments to fix problems with me? I know it's super

simple. Yep. So if a treatment doesn't work, what are the reasons that the treatment may not work? I mean, it could be like you're trying to treat like the wrong thing or something. Absa fucking looply. So now let me ask you scientifically, if you're a guy who watches a bunch of videos and spends $8,000 on dating coaching and it doesn't work, what are the reasons for that? Yeah, I wasn't just like trying to focus on the wrong thing. Absolutely. And that's like just like just logical, right? Because this is a very well-developed system. You're clearly a smart guy. You've been trying hard. You're not an idiot. And it doesn't seem to be a work work. And it doesn't seem to be working. And so my sense actually is that this has nothing. You're not socially incompetent.

I mean, you may be on some level, but, you know, it sounds like you've actually worked on those skills. Like you used to be shy. You even tell us, you've made progress and it's still not working. which makes us kind of scratch our heads. The mic is sometimes transmitting. So, I just want you to think about that because you've overcome your shyness, you've learned how to approach women. Those were things that used to struggle with.

You've actually improved in the ways that you perceived as your weakness and it's still not working. Which then suggests to me in a very simple logical level that you're trying to treat the wrong thing. And I think the thing that is broken within you is not and your diagnosis of yourself is based upon something that is based on an assumption or an experience that you now try to actively ignore, which is why like nothing's going to work.

Right? Doesn't mean that you can't get better. Doesn't mean that you can't go on a date. Doesn't mean you can't find love and get married or, you know, sleep with a bunch of women, if that's what you want to do, like whatever floats your boat. What I'm saying is that like something about doesn't seem to be working and I think that's because you're like solving the wrong problem. because all of this is laid on the foundation that Alex isn't good at what? Alex isn't good with people, good at socializing. Yep. Here's the crazy thing.

I don't actually accept that as true. I don't accept that as true for a minute. Because I think that is not something that, in a sense, is true. It's not about you. It's about the way that people treated you. You had like second graders telling you that you don't fit in. and you may not have fit in. It's not untrue, right?

Because you didn't fit in and they did believe. So it's like sort of true. Like you're not an idiot. But like I don't accept that conclusion that you formed before you turned 13. And my sense is that if we can change that conclusion, if you can look at yourself in the mirror and not cringe at what you see. Because like that's the fucking problem. Like whatever that thing is within you, like any time you approach. or Sarge a girl, you can come up with all these fucking techniques.

But as long as that rot is inside you, I don't think this is going to work. What do you think about that? Yeah, I think, you know, that definitely makes sense. Like trying to work on like the deeper levels. Yep. Good. I think so Alex, I respect you immensely. What do you think about that?

Yeah, thanks. Do you have any idea? First of all, do you believe me? I mean, I believe you. Why would I respect you? I mean, like, I'm just like being like open and like honest. Yep, that's certainly a part of it. What else?

What could be? I'm sorry, you said you don't know what it could be? Like, what could it be? Yeah, that's a question, right? So now we get to another important question. I'm going to tell you in a second. But like, I want to. notice, I'm not for if this is just awkward and I'm putting you in a weird situation, but like,

I'm trying to get a sense of whether you can gauge someone when someone looks at you, what do they see? What do you think? I mean, it's kind of like cart to like, kind of like a hard question, like what I mean? Yeah. So, so it's a very hard question. So I wonder if on some level, when other people look at you, what you assume is what they see. see is what you see when you look in the mirror, which is someone who's like on the surface doing a good job, but underneath is kind of cringy. Is that how people see you? I mean, it's a possibility that they could see that. Yep, it is a possibility.

What do you think they see? Do you know? I might, I mean, I kind of feel like at first they like just seem like normal guy, but they like try talking to me. Like, yeah, they, yeah, like once they start talking to me, like, they might see someone's just. like cringy. Yep. Right. So I'm going to say what I said earlier and try to map it on to what you said. On the surface, they see a normal guy. And underneath is cringy. So you can pass for a normal dude until you start interacting, right? And then what I do is I have this gold statue and I scratch the gold a little bit and hold on a second. That's not gold underneath. Looks like

gold on the outside. Looks normal, but underneath scratch it a little bit, engage with a little bit. And inside is Alex. Tringy. And so that's not what I see. I can see because I don't think that's actually what they see. I think that's what you think they see. And you think you're cringy. And therefore, they see cringy. I see a guy who tries. I see a guy who's smart. I see. a guy who's dedicated and who's trying to make himself a better person. And I tend to judge the PUA scene. So apologies for that. That may not be fair of me. But at the end of the day, I see a dude who fucking gives a shit and tries to make his life a little bit better than it is. I see a dude who says, hey, this is a problem that I have and I'm not willing to accept it. I want to change it.

And mad respect, man. I can get behind you 100% for that. Open and honest and all that shit, like, you know, balls of steel for coming on stream and all that stuff is there too. But at the end of the day, Alex, I'm in your corner because I think you're trying to become better than what you are. And you're not taking it, taking it laying down. You're not like saying, oh, woe is me. You're saying, like, I'm going to try to do something about it. But I don't know if you see that in yourself, do you? I mean, I mean, maybe like, I mean, to a degree, yeah.

but I also like kind of like see someone like like who's like basically like a hard case, I guess that makes any sense. Yep. Makes a lot of sense. Not quite hopeless, but damn near close. Does that make sense? Yep. Yeah, so I'm going to say it in a different way.

You're a guy who's not willing to give up despite the fact that you're hopeless. then that makes sense yeah it does yep so let's be honest because I think you think you're hopeless but you're not willing to accept it hard truth to face how does it feel to hear that

that's true it feels good it's fucking fucking weird though right here I am telling you Alex you're a guy who has no hope and you're like that feels physical

I think that looks like how does it work man? I don't know. It's weird. What are you feeling right now? I feel pretty good. Okay. What does that mean pretty good? I don't know, like pretty happy, like pretty relieved, I guess.

Yeah. Right. So can I toss out a word? Do you feel unburdened, less heavy? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it seems like... Yeah, less heavy. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. less heavy definitely a good one yeah okay so Alex on the one hand I don't want to lead you and on the other hand sometimes you know I've been doing this a little bit for a little while now so sometimes I can guess based on how people are feeling is it okay if I sometimes prompt you with words if you can't find the right one until we find what you're feeling that's all right okay so now Alex we come to a really difficult fork in the road so the question is so I I said earlier that I'm going to respect your choice not to talk about your upbringing,

but it is my belief that that's the foundation of all this shit. So I'm going to give you a choice. I think it would be productive to talk about, and at the same time, I want to respect you. It doesn't have to be now. It can be a different place, different person, whatever. But I think that's where the money is. And I wanted to explain to you, you know, why I was asking about that.

or we can talk about, you know, the experience of dating, coaching, pickup artists, NLP, you know, what it's like to work with seven coaches, what kind of stuff you wanted to talk about. I think both of those would be very educational. I think one is going to be for Twitch and one is going to be for you. And so I leave that to you. Well, which one do you think I should do? like if you want me to talk about like up bringing stuff, I could try to like do a little bit more if that's what you want. If not, then I can also talk about your stuff that like either way is good.

Yeah. So I do think we should talk about K through 8 because what I want is to help you. So every time when I stream with someone, I try to help the person that I'm talking to the most. and that's my true north. And at the same time, you know, I want to respect your boundaries. But like I really think that like, because like you said, the day you walked in to ninth grade, you already knew there was a self-fulfilling prophecy. And everything that you've built on that assumption is like your strategy for life. And when every, you've built this beautiful skyscraper on a false foundation.

And so anything that you try to do to fix anything in that skyscraper is just based on a fundamentally flawed foundation. And I think that if you can... Okay, I'll... Okay. Yeah, I'll talk about it. Okay. So what... So it's very like, like one of the things that they call me is like a retard.

Okay. And what would make them say that? I mean, I was... I mean, to be fair, like, a K through, like, seventh grade. I mean, I wasn't the best student, but by starting, like, the eighth grade, then into high school, like actually became like a straight A students. And actually, I don't think it has anything to even do with grades.

Like, they just, I think it was basically like, and I just like felt very shy in stuff. And, like, I'd say the best word to use, maybe like socially in comments, like maybe. And like maybe they perceived that as being like less intelligence. Sure. Like even though I wasn't really less intelligent, I was actually, you know, a very good student. Yeah.

And so they just saw something about you and they, they chose to pick on you. And then how did you feel about yourself when they would call you these things? Do you remember? I mean, definitely like very terrible. Like I also felt like very alienated like back then. Like we had like like like back then. actually a very small school. Like one time I decided not to like sit with them. And yeah, that felt very awkward because I was sitting by myself. So then I had to go back to staying with him.

Just so I could like be seen with other people. Yeah. Like does that like kind of like answer to the question? Beautifully. Alex. Beautifully. I think you share you share a lot with a very small story. what I see is a kid who's stuck. Fucked either way. Right? Either you like sit with the abuse and you're alienated with them or you're alienated by yourself.

But what I see as a child who is has an inescapable truth that either way you're alienated. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes perfect sense. And so then you learned how to act. Right?

So I'm also hearing something really important there, which is that like when you were hanging out, when you went back the next day and sat at the table, what was that like? Can you tell us? Tell us a story, Alex. You're a very good storyteller. Can you just tell us a story about,

you know, being in elementary school? Just something that jumps out about like maybe feeling alienated or feeling fake? Well, basically, it was like 15 different guys versus one. So in that regards, I was like a little bit like intimidated because like, are they going to like mess with my food and stuff? Like it wasn't that like I wasn't tough or anything. But if you like one guy against like 15 people, like obviously I'm like going to lose no matter

what. Yeah. And what did you do? Because you were going to lose no matter what. Yeah, basically not even like try. Interesting. What would trying look like? What do it look like exactly?

I mean, it kind of hard to say, but I mean, I just like didn't know what to do. I'm like. Okay. So I respectfully disagree with something you said a little earlier. So 15 versus one. What's the point in trying? Feels hopeless. Right?

Right? It's impossible. Feel familiar. We talked about that before. Oh, yeah. And here's the crazy thing. I don't think you gave up on trying. I think you tried anyone. Because like that's what sitting back at the table is the second day. Giving up is moving by yourself. And then going back and sitting with them, even though they bully you, that's not giving up. that's trying in the face of hopelessness.

What do you think about that? Yeah, I think that makes perfect sense. So this is who you are and this is what I respect about you. Because you're a guy who says, fuck it, right? Even though it's painful and I make it sound glorious and the movies make it sound glorious. The truth is that it's horribly painful and is scarring and traumatic. But you tried anyway. And then you said, I didn't know what to do.

Now let me ask you something, Alex, when it comes to approaching women, would you, that feeling of like being different and being hopeless and not knowing what to do, do you carry that with you when you approach a woman? Yeah, precisely. It's also part of the reason. Also part of the reason why I have to stick to these like dumb routines. Yeah, but the dumb routines don't seem like they're working, right? get to those in a second. But here's the problem. Like, I don't know how else to say this, Alex, but the things that hold you back today and that you carry with you are your words precisely what you felt years ago. And so here's the really cool thing. If you deal with those feelings, this entire skyscraper is going to come tumbling down. Your problems with women, I know this sounds in the sense will vanish

because they're not problems with women. They're problems with you. The reason that I think women reject you is because when they scratch beneath the surface, what they see is what you are. And as long as you believe that that's what you are, that's what they're going to see. And so occasionally you may find someone

who has like a lot of compassion. and who may pity you. But that's not going to be a healthy relationship. And it's just not going to. And those women get turned off by the pickup artist kind of approach, like the Chad approach, Sarge. Like they get turned off by that kind of stuff.

You know, like, you know, I mean, I think so much of what you say about like what you feel today, I think was born a long time ago. And now I'm going to tell you why I think it's bizarre that you feel relief. when basically if you take what I say to you out of context, I sound like a complete asshole. I'm saying, no, man, you don't have a little bit of hope.

You're fucking hopeless. And then it's like, how do you feel when I say that? Because that's a mean thing to say, right? And yet you feel relief. Because here's the thing. I think what we're doing is we're sitting with that feeling and I'm not rejecting you. Because what happened is you used to be awkward and people used to punish you for it. And what feels relieving?

What feels heavy is like you know, like there's a part of you that has been beaten over and over and over again. And so flinches whenever you face these feelings or these thoughts. And it can feel very relieving when you say something that you used to get beat for and someone doesn't beat you. Like, oh, shit. Oh. What do you think about that? That makes a perfect sense. Okay.

Can I think for a second? Sure. Now I don't know where to go. I feel like I blew my load way too early. Because usually this happens at the end and someone fries. Oh, my God. Okay. So it makes perfect sense.

So I think we've figured something else. So now the question is what do about it? Do you have questions, by the way? Not at all, actually. Yeah, definitely. Hel helps a lot. How does it help? Yeah, well, now I know, like, basically, like,

to focus on. I definitely, like, fix all the inner stuff. Yep. How do you do that? How do I do that? I mean, yeah, yeah, so basically, like, yeah, like, rebuild, like, the foundation. I'm, like, how I, like, see myself, like, the stuff.

I got taught like back then. I basically like declutter that. Yep. So this is the first thing that I wrote. I don't know if you can see this. Can you read that? External solution plus internal problems. Yeah. So external solutions to internal problems. This is the first thing that I wrote. This is your problem. You look to dating coaches and websites and videos and things like that to fix what's inside. And that's why it doesn't fucking work. Because it's just like you're putting all of your energy in the opposite direction. Here's the crazy thing, Alex. I don't think you have a problem talking to women. The even crazier thing is that you agree. Do you say, I used to be shy, but I'm not anymore. I can actually go up and talk to

women. The problem is what you show them. And what you show them is what you are. And on the surface, you can maintain a front for some amount of time, but eventually it's a scratch beneath the surface and they see something rotten on the inside. And this is like, this is what the entire, anyway, yeah. I think the whole pickup artist like approach is like based on this fundamental misnomer. And the thing is it works for some people, right? Like you get some kinds of outcomes. And if you roll the dice enough, you're going to get people to, like, hook up with you. But my overwhelming experience talking to people who've done all this pickup artist stuff is that, like, one in 10 seems to do, like, way better. But nine out of 10 don't seem to get much out of it.

I don't know if you would agree or disagree with that. I think it definitely makes sense. Yeah. So, like, I think, I think this comes, this starts, Alex, with, like, if you believe that, you're an alien, when you interact with another human being, they're going to be able to sense that, especially women. And by especially, there's actually data that suggests that their brains are somewhat different and don't overread into this crap by all means. But human beings are empathic. And oftentimes men are conditioned to be less empathic and women are not conditioned in the same way. I think a lot of it is conditioning. And so, on some level, they pick up what you have underneath the surface.

And then something about this entire thing sounds super artificial to me. The approach. And it's like you're like, it's like a bombing one. It's like, you know? And then the girl gives you the number and then ghosts you. It's like, like I'd say that what you got to do is like have a conversation with someone. Don't try to get laid. Just like go out and meet people.

Don't try to pick up women. Just meet people. And that's what terrifies you because, like, that's what you did when you were in kindergarten. It's like you tried to just have friends. And boy, did you get burned. And so it's way easier when you stop thinking about them as people and start thinking about them as... What term do they use? I can see that again.

What term? Well, how do they refer to women in the circles that you... like the target like um yeah that's definitely one of them like sometimes we call them like hb eight or nine which stands for like hot babe nine yeah right so like like here's the thing like you dehumanize them because then Alex the molding so you your brain has this idea that like when i interact with humans they treat me like shit and if i don't treat them like humans then that previous programming doesn't apply here. It's a whole new ball game.

Does that make sense at all or not so much? That definitely makes sense. Right? So then you're playing a game. It's a game. It's not about like me being a human and then being a human. It's like I'm an avatar of a Chad. And they are the HP 8 or 9. And so it's like a story. It's like a role play. And like the cool thing about stories is we get to be people that we're not.

And so it's very appealing. What I would love, though, is if you could just be yourself and be okay with that because I don't think you're a fuck up, man. You're 20 years old. You've got plenty of time, bro. Trust me. Okay. Questions? Other questions? Not really that. Yeah, definitely a clear a ton of things up for me. Thanks. Yeah, you're very welcome. I'm torn a little bit between, so I've got a couple, we've got a couple options. One is we still have some time. Do you want to continue talking? Yeah, definitely. Okay. So here are two or three options.

One is we can talk a little bit about practicalities. So how does one go about the process of cluttering? But I do find myself, I kind of like derailed you from, you know, talking about the videos and the pickup artists and the dating coaches, which I think people are curious about. I'm still curious about those. So I mean, can we still talk about that and that philosophy and approach? Okay. So you said you started watching lots and lots of videos.

So can you tell us about those videos? Yes. I have like a ton of those programs, probably like a terabyte, to be honest, like that much. If I had to go back to the very first program I watched, yeah, it was basically like a guy interviewing like a bunch of women. then like telling us like how to like like get like that specific grown stuff and like there are also like other programs like when I watched last year it was a I guess a focused on mindsets and that they're like these other I mean there are a lot of different programs like NLP programs

are yeah those are those are those ones are probably like the creepier ones because they rely on you basically like spitting up these so-called language patterns um which relies on using you know like hypnotic language like like one of the examples like they used like if a girl had like some sort of pendants like you'd go up to her and the guy was really talking for like three minutes straight like as the opener and it doesn't make any sense like if I just went up to a random one start talking to her about about like her pendant for like three consecutive minutes like she would just leave I hope so they're also like we're also what did I think that's gonna do um that's basically you're trying to like use

these so-called triggers like these psychological triggers, like, use like methods such as like the fractionation and stuff. Can you explain that to me, please? A fractionation, oh man, I forgot like the best definition for it, but I'd say within the like the implementation of using it in language, it's like, it's like kind of like a roller coaster language. Like you're saying something that kind of like evokes like negative.

feelings at first but then you like say something that invokes like positive feelings and then like it's like not just a straight line because because women supposedly find just the same emotion repeatedly like being a boring thing but if you have like these mixed feelings it makes you sound more interesting that's so i mean those were i mean those are the most technical ones but they're also like books um and i'm just like trying to just give you like a quick summary of like all of stuff. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think it's pretty it's really helpful, Alex. Thank you. So are you mentioned books? Um, yeah, there are like a ton of books as well. Any, any kind of takeaways from the book. Can you

help me understand what kind of stuff they talk about or what they cover? I mean, the books, I mean, like a book and a program can like kind of teach the same thing, mindset-wise, I guess. I feel like approach the advantage with like video programs that, I can, like, you know, hear people like, like, giving examples like, they're like saying the actual things. We also have this thing called like infield, like video footage where like you're seeing basically the mentor like applying of the so-called principles like into real life, basically. Who's we?

Said we have this thing called infield video footage. Who's we? Oh yeah, the pickup, yeah, community. Okay. Can you tell me about that community? I mean, I mean, obviously the good thing is about that we're like just here to improve ourselves. Like really, I mean, the only for the most part, the most negative thing is obviously bad advice. Like, one of the most common advice I see that's like pretty bad is just, at least I realize that even more right now is definitely, they always say, oh no, you just have to approach. like just have to like keep approaching like thousands of women like there's like

there's like there's this a one a giant company that advocates like you have to approach like at least a thousand girls in order to like get decent okay I mean that makes sense no practice makes perfect I mean it does but it didn't really work for me you've approached a thousand women I've I've approached 300. What? Holy shit, dude. That's a lot.

That's gotta be tough to get rejected 300 times. I mean, yeah, I mean, I was especially like, I mean, I was definitely pretty nervous, like, doing it at first, but then you kind of like just get used to it. Like you get desensitized, basically. Yeah. You seem like a desensitized kind of. to dude. What do you think about that? Yeah.

Can I share with you why I think you're decent? Why I think you're decent? Yeah, I was actually kind of wondering that. Yep. So I think a lot of times you can't describe what you're feeling, but when I put words to it, you can say, yeah, that's it. Right? So that suggests to me that like you've, you just don't quite know, like you sort of can face the feeling, but you don't

really have like you're it's almost like you're colorblind when it comes to looking within yourself which is what i think of is someone who's desensitized but with a little bit of help you can learn what it is that you're feeling and the interesting thing is that so that and then that begs a question how do i know what you're feeling if you don't know what you're feeling how do i know what you're feeling and that turns out that just like women you actually signal a lot more stuff than you realize and if you've got a good receipt you on the other end, I see the color inside you. You just don't see it.

But you're still giving it off because it's not like I'm psychic or something, right? You're actually giving it off quite strongly. So like you tell a story, like that story about the cafeteria was beautiful. I mean, it's a terrible story, like awful to listen to. But it was beautiful in terms of like there's so much color and meaning and feeling in that story. I'm sorry, did you want to jump in? I was not quite sure. I was just listening to you, but yeah, that I feel like makes up perfect sense. Yeah.

Okay, so there are videos, coaches that pick up artists community. And so when did you start coaching? When I started coaching, that was my first coach was senior year in high school. Okay. And how did you decide to seek out a coach? I definitely dissatisfaction with where I currently in a manse.

Dissatisfaction meaning what? What were you dissatisfied with? I was dissatisfied that you know, I wasn't like I couldn't socialize. I was also like also dissatisfied with the fact that I couldn't get any women.

Were there particular women? So, you know, I, oh yeah, definitely. Were you in love? I mean, I definitely had a huge case of like one-nitis with this girl for like, like at least four years. But what constitutes being in love, like, I'm not really sure what that means. What is what-nit-s mean? I'm also kind of like, it's basically where there's like this one girl like, I mean, I guess in your terms, like you could call like being in love. But I don't know, it's like basically you're only focused on like one woman pretty much.

When you say your terms, who is the you? I just meant like, like you said, like was I in love? Like I don't really know what kind of was being loved. Like maybe I just had a huge crush on her, but when I just, it basically implies like you're overthinking about this one girl for like way too long. I think that's probably like the better definition for it. Do you know what the suffix Idaice means? I just means like inflammation.

Yeah, it's interesting, right? So what we call love, you call a disease. Oh, yeah, that's right. So like uveitis is like inflammation of the uvea. Rhinitis, allergic rhinitis. Do you know what allergic rhinitis means? Flammation of like an allergic reaction? Yep, it means allergies.

It's the colloquial term allergies. Right? So rhinitis means nose. So when you have seasonal allergies as your nose is stopped up, we develop our own terminology to separate ourselves from the rest of society, and we call it allergic rhinitis. And we feel smarter than everyone else by doing so. But I think I never appreciated until this moment that what some of society calls love,

it sounds like the pickup artist community treats like a disease. So what is so what I just sounds like a bad thing like in the pickup artist community? How do they describe oneitis? What do they say about it? And I'm not saying like the pickup artists community is bad or anything like like like it's like we're going to a sense that we are like out here to improve ourselves. But yeah, yeah. But one I just in particular.

When I just I guess like we have like these red pillish like views like on women like we like if we focus on one girl I guess another things could be bad like number one yeah we should number one like we should have in a we should have like an abundance of women to talk about like there's like always a lot more women and number two like I guess at least in my perspective if you're like like always focus on one women if you're like extremely nervous like maybe you'd be like less likely together or something okay I mean I guess like one I just basically like limits like your like it basically limits you because there's like a ton of other women in the sea so I'd say that's basically why the reason

why it's a bad thing because like you should have abundance and you should I know your options like if a girl doesn't you know like you then I mean you should learn to deal with that and having one-nitis i guess could be like like you're not like you're still too attached to her basically like just don't become too attached to one person but what if i i really like her though i feel like i mean if you really like her yeah basically i try to like interact with their but it doesn't work out though i mean that thing with keeping the one-nitis like you're it's going to be too attached and it's going to like prevent you from seeing the other options. I think that attachment leading to suffering is not something that is new, right?

So there's potentially the original. If we say that that's a hallmark of the Red Pill community, you know, who is the founder of the Red Pill community, who also preached that attachment leads to suffering. You should let go of attachment. Any idea? There's this guy named Budda. Oh, Buddha. He agrees for what that's worth. I don't know if he'd like agree with the rest of it, but the general principle that being overly attached to something is what causes suffering is like something that he's been saying for a couple thousand years. Okay, so it sounds like you had one idas for a girl. How do you, what do you think about that now? Honestly, I feel like I was a little creepy for liking her because I barely even interacted her. Like I did, I mean, like technically I did, but I don't know. It just is.

What feels creepy about that? Like I, I know, it's like, like usually, if you're supposed to like someone, if you've like talked to them. Like for quite a bit. I mean, obviously I talk to it. I mean, like at least a little bit. but yeah yeah so Alex I think that's actually a really important point do you mind if I ask you a few more questions about that just to illustrate a couple of things sure so help me understand like you know if you haven't interacted with her much and and you know what did you think about her

and where did those thoughts come from because your situation is not unique right like I myself caught one-itis for someone when I was 16 years old and saw this person once. And like, I still remember the moment that I saw her, which was that I was walking by a picnic table and she was walking in the opposite direction with one of her friends. And I remember feeling like I got punched in the chest by like an elephant. And I still remember that moment. I caught some really bad one-itis. That's the best way I can describe it. And so how is that? How is that? How is it? And so how How does that happen? What happens? What did you think about her? What is that one I just based on? I mean, I mean, I guess I like, kind of like notice, like, things about her.

I mean, I mean, that, like, personality wise. I mean, I also thought she was very beautiful, but yeah. Like, I know, she just, like, kind of seemed like she'd be, like, my type or something. What was it about her? I mean, I guess there was like one thing about personality can't really, I mean, kind of hard to describe to be honest. I mean, she was also like very sweet. How did you know she was sweet? I mean, it's just like something you pick up on, you know. Explain that to me.

How do you pick up on it? I mean, it's like kind of hard to describe. What does it feel like thinking about her and talking about her? I guess it feels kind of good. What feels good about it? I'm not sure. Okay. I wonder if it can just feel good to acknowledge what you have on the inside.

Does that make sense? Like just calling it what it is. Not saying it's good, not saying it's bad. But I notice your face is changing a little bit. Like when you talk about her, like you start to grin. It is? Yeah. It is?

Yeah. Do you feel the one of this coming back as we talk about her? I mean, maybe like a tiny bit, but... Because you did say that you had it for four years, so it sounds like you're over it now. I mean, yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. And so you said Red Pill? Can you tell us what that means?

I mean, I guess it's... What I'd use, like, Red Pill described? I've got to use it to like describe what I is. Yeah. I mean, I kind of think that's where it comes from, like, just like a way of thinking. I'm not really that much identified with like different pills. Okay. And but can you explain the general concept behind red pill?

I think I think blue pill is just like, is it a blue pill is just like what everyone else is. Red pillow would probably come like a simp or something, my guess. Okay. A red pill could be identified with the guys like or, you know, like actively trying out to get women. And then the black pill are just the guys like completely given up. Okay. So red pillars don't try to get women?

I said they, I said they do. Oh, they do. And blue pills do try to get women or don't try to get women? I mean, okay, blue pill, I'd say, believe in like this, like courting, like courting stuff. Like you have to, like, court a woman, like, take her out on, like, three dates before, like, you can even, you know, do stuff with her. Yeah, okay. So, so if you're in love, you're a blue pillar, and if you have one idas, you're a red pillar. I mean, probably.

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. I'm not, I'm not the most. familiar with the pills, but I think that's a very general concept. Okay. So it sounds like you're more familiar with the pickup artists scene. Yeah, definitely. Okay. So how did you find a coach? Yeah, definitely. Um, that first one, definitely online. Yeah, but I'm going to go like coach by coach. Like I had seven like different coaches.

Yep. So let's talk about this one. What was how did you find? find them and what did they teach you? Okay, well, the first one, believe or not, that one was a girl. A girl dating coach, the other six weren't, but this guy, she taught me like, I don't get me wrong, like she was very nice, like she tried to help. Oh yeah, how I found, I found her like this kind of websites. It's like you submit your form and then like that I get you wrong, she was trying to help. What does that mean? I mean, she was trying to help with the stuff she taught was like,

like, you know, this is what a question is. This is what a statement is like, like stuff that's like everyone like already knows. Okay. Uh-oh. It's trying to teach like like basically common sense. Like doing. Okay. So it sounds like it wasn't that helpful. I don't. A second one that basically. I basically found this same way, but it was basically like, I was a, I guess the last one, like it was like a small company that had like different dating coach. They just assigned me to one dating coach. The second one, it was just the guy owned his own website. So it was basically like Justin.

And what he did was that he made me keep like this, a journal to like record my interactions. then I would basically discuss it with him like on Skype. And actually did me some pretty interesting advice, to be honest. Can you give us an example of interesting advice? I can recall one of them, like recalling, like telling stories. Like he gave me like this metaphor of like a newspaper. You've got like the article, the headline. Like I basically, when I'm talking to,

of the girl like I you know I say like like the interesting lines like kind of spark or interest I go into explain it and the problem I just did was I would just say oh hey I did this and I did this and basically I would only it would only last like like two or three senses but basically did it like you know we got the article um you know to grab the attention then you got you know actually telling like a real story basically Okay, and the third one. The third one, oh my God. That one was the most expensive one.

Yeah, it was $3,000 for that one. It was basically a three-month coaching program, and they did it. Like, I did get individualized coaching by the main coach. But it was also like in a group-like setting where, like, we interact. on this platform with actually all these other students like doing the coaching program. And another interesting thing was that we had these missions where an example of mission would be it could be related to getting women like get a phone number from a girl or ask a girl to help pick clothes for you or something, go on an incident with a girl is another one.

We also had like more confidence-based ones such as like breakdance in public. Yes, I was, so I basically like asked someone to record me like breakdancing in the mall. I mean, I did help me. Yeah. That's cool, man. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it definitely did help with confidence. I literally, it was just like all of these. I was really like- That's fucking awesome, bro.

You know how to breakdance? Yeah. That's really cool. Anyway, keep going. So this is the 30,000 of them to help some with conference. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that program cost me $3,000. That was the most expensive one.

I mean, there were a lot of other things like advice we just give out was honestly stuff I already knew from YouTube, like take cold showers and stuff. How does that help? And, I mean, I guess it could like strengthen your will a little. When I say, well, I don't mean like will power, but. just like enduring, I guess it could be like similar to approaching like like it could compare to like jumping in the pool. But also you have this thing where like we like you did like individualized sessions, but also kind of had like group online sessions like we did a video chat on Skype where

like there was a segment where like the main coach actually brought his girl out to interact with her. And yeah, I would basically get like one or two minutes on the timer to like try to start a conversation with her, like talk to her. Yeah, basically more like observational always. But what made me like very mad though was that I was literally on my last group session And I could barely even like hold a conversation for like 10 seconds. And the guy was like, oh my God. Like you did so awesome Alex, like did so well. And that was like literally after like three months.

Like I know it's, I know it like I know he was like trying to be nice to me and stuff. But like he also just wasn't very honest, you know. Like I was still obviously struggling a lot. And I know, and the biggest thing I got from that program was, of course, I gained a lot of confidence, but I kind of, you know, expected a lot more. And then. Hold on a second. What made you matter about that? I mean, like, it was like kind of, I mean, like I literally, it was like my last, my very last session, like after three months.

Like I, like skill wise, I didn't really improve that much. And he, and like he saw that, like I couldn't, like I was doing so pathetic, like trying to talk to, you know, this girl on the video tracks. And she's girl. And yeah, to similar the approach by like he was, I mean, he was like kind of like, like being fake, you know. Like, and after that, like after the chat, he was like trying to like get me on a sale to pay. times there's more dollars to continuous coaching. I was like, no. How did that make you feel?

Yeah, very mad. What were you mad at? I kind of like expected more, you know? I think it's more than that. I think you felt like maybe you got taken advantage of. Yeah. It's interesting. So, Alex, if I can point something out to you,

this is the first time in an hour and 12, 25 minutes or so that you've used a word that describes an emotion. Is that true? Maybe I missed one earlier. But usually when I ask you about emotions or when we talk about emotions, your answer is I don't know. And then if I help you out some, you'll say, yeah, that's what it feels like. But man, like you go back and watch the vaude, like you can see it in your face. Like something, you said, the next one, $3,000.

Like we knew something is wrong. and it sounds like you like he was trying to squeeze you for more money is that what it felt like like he's giving you all this false praise and then be like oh yeah like you're doing great like all you need is three more months of coaching just a few thousand dollars more and you're going to get to where you want to go but you're on the right path now now Alex you might if I ask like so like when you work with let's say the fourth coach or the fifth coach or the sixth coach or the seventh coach. Did you ever tell them, by the way, I've worked with four coaches before and I haven't really gotten anywhere? I did. And how did they respond to that?

The one after the third coach, he was like, yeah, man, I am the real dude. And the guy after that, it was like, it was like, okay, yeah, well, that, well, that's okay, let's. And I guess they weren't like to assume maybe they weren't like too surprised really to be honest sorry I don't mean to laugh

but if they're not too surprised does that mean that like that happens a lot where like clients come to them and say hey I've worked with a bunch of coaches and nothing has worked and then like no big deal man I'm the real dude

I mean yeah the next guy had a really had an extremely big ego Okay. Sorry. Do you feel, am I, do you feel like ashamed or anything if I laugh? Oh, no, not at all. Okay. I'm just, I'm surprised by the absurdity of this whole system, which thank you very much, by the way, for explaining some of the stuff and shedding some light on it. But I'm just curious because it's like, you know, what is the fifth dude say when you're like, hey, I've worked with four people? And he's like, yay, give you that money. I'm different. But anyway, sorry. Okay, so you were saying, like, so what was... Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that was how all of them responded, like, like some of them were obviously a lot nicer than that. But that, but that reaction definitely applied to the next one. Like, he was, like, very awful. How so? What does that mean? Yeah, you, yeah, do that.

He was, like, very, like, verbally abusive. And he would, like, get mad at you, like, over. like the dumbest like stuff like stuff that like doesn't even matter and also like I literally had like like three sessions left and he was like we're done coaching and he literally just canceled our coaching without a refund and why did he cancel our coaching like he literally like accused me of interacting with like a third party like I was like some sort of secret agents and I actually I had a coach later who did a coaching strategy with him. I also like I did this product with him.

So like he's known him like he used to be best friends with him. But he was like, yeah dude, like that guy is schizophrenic. Like he was like extremely. The fourth coach was just like extremely insecure and paranoid. Yeah. Makes me wonder what the qualifications to become a dating coach are. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, I'm sorry that happened to you. I mean, yeah, like really obsessed me like to this day.

What upsets you about it? Well, part of it is that he actually does have a few like very good testimonials and like I would listen to them. And like it could like hear from the way they come across like they've like actually become like very good and charismatic. And I've actually found out, like, months after taking the coach you that there were other guys who had, like, plenty of other guys who, like, had the exact same experience as me. Like off of Reddit, but, yeah, I just, like, I just didn't know how to, like, deal with it. It doesn't sound like many people do. Sounds like a hard guy to deal with. maybe another one of those situations where maybe he's got internal problems that he's dealing with externally

by yelling at people who give him money for coaching yeah so that was he was coach number five four or what about five six and seven any anything stand out there number five i mean he was actually generally a nice guy i mean he wasn't surprised but not in like like hockey way like yeah i am the real dude blah blah like um that guy like i did like he did a coaching pay by by month so it wasn't like an entire like three-month package and like his style was like his style was like a lot more um technical stuff like he made me do like a lot of writing pretty nice dude. But by the time the summer hits, I just, I couldn't afford it anymore. And some time has passed, I found this other coach who, yeah, he was the one who actually did the coaching

with the other guy who did the program with him. It was like best friends with the fourth guy. And yeah, he was a pretty good dude. And I've also, another one, like after that, his main focus was on mindsets and stuff. It's also more, it does individualized sessions, but it also kind of like doesn't like a group-based cent as well. But that learned. So Alex, let me ask you something.

If someone is like struggling to find, so let's, you have a fair amount of experience. How do you feel? You okay? I feel pretty good. Okay. I've been holding this stapler. I've been holding this stapler to the laptop. Do you want to switch hands?

Oh, no. I feel. I feel okay. Talk about willpower. Hold the stapler of your headphone jack for like an hour and a half. So let me. ask you a couple questions. So let's say like, so you've been through this stuff for a while. So let's say that I'm a 17 year old guy in high school who feels like an alien amongst my peers and doesn't know how to talk to

girls. What would you recommend to me? Yeah, definitely. Focus on the inner issues, like especially good place to look like in my situation was like what happened to me in my childhood. Like, um, I think it. I'm confused. So you're telling me that what we talked about like an hour ago is like what you're going to share with them. You're not going to share with them anything that you've learned from like seven dating coaches. Are you just playing nice? Or do you actually think that?

I say that again. So I'm confused because like you seem to be talking about in my perception what we talked about. But do you actually think that that's the answer? I was expecting you to say something relating to like what you learned from like seven days. coaches. But that's not the answer that I'm hearing, unless you learn that from them as well. I was trying to tell you, like, the answer, like, what I learned from you. But do you think that that's the best advice for the 17-year-old, not what you've learned from the dating coaches? Or your advice. Don't work. I mean, don't pick the thing just because I said.

I'm genuinely curious, like, what would you offer them? And if it is, look at yourself, then that's cool. I mean, it's not just look at yourself. Like, I just, that phone okay so what i learned from the seven dating coaches is like yeah definitely like be very careful for like what you pay for like i'd say um like a few stuff out there is honestly pretty valuable like one of them uh was like free association like it helps you like practice your verbal skills and stuff i'm just saying like don't yeah like yeah definitely like what you taught me like an hour ago, like definitely do that first. But yeah, you can also like, yeah, do the other things I learned from day coach.

Like, yeah, the free association stuff. I mean, yeah, there are, I mean, a few obvious things like they taught like, you know, dress well. Yeah. So it seems like there are, there are some practical things that you'd share with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Like there's, yeah, definitely some practical things by you also. So, like, obviously, the mental stuff. Yeah.

Cool, man. Anything that we sort of didn't cover today that you wanted to talk about or any questions for me? Any questions for you? I don't know. I've only got, like, comments. Yeah, I mean, I'm not trying to artificially shut things down. I just want to make sure that we do have time because I know I've kind of been steering. and I want to give you a chance if you do want to share anything.

I'm getting the sense that's sort of like talking about the remainder of the details of the dating coaches feels kind of redundant to me. Is there something from those that you want to share? I mean, like, can you like be more specific though? Yeah. So, you know, I'm, let me put it this way. Like it sounds like there are a couple of important experiences, but I felt like we sort of got those from you in terms of dating coaching.

Is there something else that you can? feel like is important to share lessons that you learn from dating coaching? Can let me think. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Definitely one of them is know what you want. Okay. Like, I could be like a bunch of things. Like, do you want a relationship? Do you throughout the moment? Just wants to like gain some experience at first and don't be afraid to communicate that. And another thing, I guess, about mindset is, like, do not seek for your approval. And it's pretty good stuff.

Also, don't be outcome dependence. I agree with all three of those things. But I have a slightly different twist on them. Can I share that with you, Alex? All right. So, like, the first thing is if we're talking about not being outcome dependent, that sort of clashes with the idea of like getting laid in the approach, right? Because it's all about outcomes. You're targeting, you're not sitting with another human being and just seeing like where this goes. It's like,

I'm going to try to get laid. That's an outcome. Does that make sense? So, so I think there's something. That's okay. There's something really, I think, I think you're closing yourself off by like approaching 300 women instead of just like being you. And I think that that's scary to you because like you learned a long time ago that being you is not something that

that people like. You can switch hands. You can let go of the stapler and just mute yourself if you want. Is that easier? I'm going to take a break. I want you to hand cramp. I'm doing a different way now. It feels good. Okay. Okay. But I mean, if I had to give

you some kind of advice, Alex, which I try to avoid at all costs. It would say just like, just be with people. I'm like, don't worry so much about like the dating and stuff like that. Unless you have Oneitis, in which case I'd say go for it, bro. And honestly. Like, like, I know, I mean, I know that oneitis can get you into trouble. And I do think that there's a lot to be said for sort of, because you said that you didn't

interact with this girl much, but we can sort of form fantasies of people. in our mind. And I do think that that's a problem, right? That's not actually who the person is. It's just the fantasy that you build in your mind. And I think it's really interesting how quickly that happens and how hard it is to realize that this is not a real person that I'm falling in love with.

This is my idea of a person. She would be like this and it would be like this and it would be like this. But at the same time, bro, don't give up on love. Because like, I mean, you know, I think if you look at stories throughout the history of humanity, like one-I-tis is pretty fucking epic, man. Do I think it's damaging? Do I think people get obsessive? Is it problematic? Does it help you not grow?

Absolutely. I don't think that you should sacrifice yourself for the sake of someone that you have one-itis for. And at the same time, like, don't give up, man. And I'd say with this particular girl, if you run across her again and like try to have a conversation with her and like maybe ask her out. I'm not trying to like throw you back into the throes of oneitis. But you know, if life gives you a chance, I'd say take a shot, man. And in the meantime, just try to be human. I don't think I recognize that you have a feeling inside you that you are an alien amongst humans.

I don't think you're as much of an alien as you. you feel you are deep down inside. I know you know you're not, but that feeling is there and recognize that that's just a feeling. It's like a holdover. It's a scar from what happened to you when you were younger. And we have scars from the past, but they're not actually like the same wounds.

Right? They heal and they leave a mark, but like you're actually a pretty cool guy. And it's like, I mean, you're kind of a chat if you know how to break dance and you've got $8,000 lying around for dating coaching. like I think you're actually in a pretty good spot. You know?

And so the last thing that I'd say, Alex, is like, give people the gift of who you are. Let them get to know you. And if they don't like what they see, that's up to them. But right now what I see is that you try to be someone that you're not. You try to advertise yourself as someone that you're not. You try to advertise yourself as someone that you're not. You try to advertise yourself based on what a lot of other people have told you, hey, here's how you advertise yourself.

But here's the thing about this whole like pickup artist methodology. When you try something on 300 women and it doesn't work, I'm really confused as a scientist how you think that's an effective method. Right? And if all of these people are saying, hey, you got to do this with a thousand women before you get the hang of it, like what? Maybe you're doing it wrong. You know, it's like, hey man, like you got to cook like a thousand bowls of pasta before it's out of it. It's like, hold on a second, man. Maybe you should try cooking it in water instead of sticking it

straight into a dry pot. Like maybe you're doing something wrong. And what I found works, Alex, and maybe this is arrogant for me to say, is just be yourself. And then like let them decide, right? like because women are the deciders in the sexual marketplace. So advertise your wares and let them pick. Don't be someone that you're not and don't try to be something that you think you should be. Like if you want to grow as a human being, grow as a human being and like the women who are interested in that will show up. And those are probably the ones that you want. You don't want a relation.

This also presumes that you want a relationship. But I think relationships built on false pretenses don't end up well. You've shown me enough that that makes me think that there's some. something there that's like worth, you know, something within you that's worth something. I think there's gold. There's like gold on the outside, lead in the middle, and then gold underneath. And so just get to that part, like just be who you are, man, because you seem like a resilient, driven, you know, like thoughtful guy who knows how to break dance and has a pretty sweet place. Your place looks pretty cool, man.

Thanks, man. Any last thoughts or questions before we wrap up or switch to meditation? No questions, but yeah, definitely I'd like to thank you for the help. Sure. When do I get my check? I cover a lot. How much should I charge for my disservice? I'm totally made you.

Yeah. I'm glad you found it useful. Do you feel like meditating? Um, sure. Okay. Do you have any experience with meditation? Um, yeah, I do it like, like an hour, over an hour a day. Oh, wow. Do you want to tell us what you do? Look at this Chad Thundercock right here. Like what I do with a meditation? Yeah. You want to teach us? Um, yeah, yeah. Yeah, basically what I do is I like, um, first I observe my thoughts for like, uh, 40 minutes and then I go into like, a visualization related practice.

And also some days, like after I do that meditation, like I'll do this other, like hypnosis related thing. Right before bed. Okay. Let me think about what I want to teach you. So basically what my focus is, is I really just do it to help gain more report with, like, my subconscious mind.

What? Okay. What does that mean rapport with your subconscious mind? And I don't really meditate. Like, just like stop thinking. Just like, just like become more aware of like, people are parts of yourself. Like, get a thought like, like you just watch it.

Like I've also like listened to a lot of like Eckhart Toll. Mm-hmm. At Cartel is good. Yep. So yeah, stuff like that. Okay. So let me think about what do we want to teach you? Okay, let me ask you a question.

So I see that you have a mirror in by your bed. Do you have a portable mirror? Okay, so I've got a good idea. So for those of y'all at home, if you guys have a phone, a camera, or a mirror, so you see my face, right? Alex, you see my face? Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay. So this is what I want you to do.

Okay, so I want you guys to get your phone ready. what we're going to do is just look at ourselves and just watch what happens when you see yourself. Okay, so I want you to look for, I'm going to ask you in a second, do you see a big version of yourself? Don't do it yet. So what I want you to notice, Alex, is that there's going to be a reaction and just try to find it. So now make yourself bigger. Can you do that? Can you see yourself? I can like see my face? Yeah, so like maximize it or like you know look in a cell phone camera or something like yeah, right?

I maximize a screen. Yeah, so can you see like a big version of your face? Yeah, it's bigger. Okay. So just look at it and tell me what you see. You don't have to tell me. Just notice what you see. I try to find that cringe when you look at yourself and notice. Okay, so just notice that. Where does that come from?

You don't have to answer. Just notice within yourself. Where does this arise? So what literally you're doing is your eyes are just seeing a picture of a person. That's all that it is. There's no fringe. So now what I want you to do is notice the physical form and try to separate the physical form from your judgment. There's eyes, there's a nose, there's headphones.

there's a blue shirt, a hoodie. That's what you see. But your mind adds something onto that. There's a reaction to the physical form that you see. Does that make sense? Where does that reaction come from? Do you have any idea? You can answer if you have a sense.

Where does the feeling of cringe come from? And I kind of feel it's like bubbling up. from like somewhere else. Yep. That makes any sense. It makes a lot of sense. So try to track it to its source. Where do you feel it bubbling up from?

Close your eyes. Where is that sense coming from? All right. You said, all right. What did you notice? Like I like kind of like became the observer. Then like I noticed like the thought form or like the feeling just like appearing there and like watch it.

So where does it appear from? I'm not sure I to like answer that like just like I don't know where. Good. Does it come from somewhere? I'm not sure. Hey, good. Okay. Alex, open your eyes. Takeaway number one. Can you see me?

Come back to me. Yep. Okay. So takeaway number one. First thing that you've got to understand. The feeling of pain. does not come from your appearance. It doesn't come from the thing that you see.

Does that make sense? Yes. Ergo, this is something I want you to understand because I don't think you really get this yet. You have to feel it in the moment. When someone sees you, they don't get something that bubbles up. The bubbling up is coming from you.

It's not coming from your face. It's not an objective fact. It's a subjective feeling. Once you understand this, it's going to transform your interactions with women and other people. They can't see, they can't feel the cringe. Because it bubbles up from somewhere else that they can't, they literally cannot see.

It does not come from your indrias or your sense organs. It doesn't come from your eyes. It comes from somewhere within you. So like, what you show them is what they'll react to. And then the second thing is, does it come from anywhere at all? does it truly have a foundation? That's the second question that you need to answer. If you can find a foundation, then you can work on it. More bizarrely, if it comes from nowhere and is sort of completely random and is basically an echo in your mind of a time long past, why do you let it inform

your identity of who you are today? So either it comes from somewhere or it doesn't. These are the questions that you need to answer. And if you do, I think your luck with women will change. Yeah, definitely. I keep up. Okay. Good luck, man. And thanks for holding the staple for so long.

Oh, yeah. Thanks. Thank you for like all your advice. Yeah, man. Good luck. Seriously, man. I wish you all the best. All right.

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