HealthyGamerGG - Self Love with Sweet Anita

Episode Date: May 5, 2020

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Quick, choose a meal deal with McValue, the $5 McChicken meal deal, the $6 McDonald's, or the new $7 daily double meal deal, each with its own small fries drink and four piece of McNuggets. It's actually no rush. I'm just excited from McDonald's. For a limited time, only person to participation, May very, not Belgrade or McDelivery. So welcome, Anita. Is it okay if I call you Anita? Mm-hmm, certainly.

And so when you, so tell us a little bit about, so what do you want to talk about today, or how can we help you, or are you helping us, or what's going on? whatever you'd like. I mean, you're welcome to ask me anything you want. A lot of people tend to ask about my condition and you're totally free to, if you'd like. I hear that you have particular expertise with burnout. But also, like, we can touch on a little bit about,

like, the pressure of being online and, you know, receiving a lot of abuse and kind of, like, prejudices against people with disabilities, if you like, as well, because that's a very loud aspect of my existence that I have to kind of try and ignore on a daily basis. Yeah. So, I mean, absolutely. I mean, if there's some way that I can be helpful with you about burnout, and that is sort of my, I mean, I guess I'm developing

a different professional expertise nowadays, but that was sort of my traditional area of expertise. So can you tell us a little bit about, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself? And then we can talk about burnout or? Sure. I'm Swinia. I've been a streamer for about two years now. And I went viral pretty much as soon as I hit the ground on Twitch.

So I was completely lost. And I've been playing catch up ever since with a crazy amount of growth. My stream is mainly variety streaming, mostly just chatting. And yeah, I've been working on, you know, mental health topics since I started, really. Thank you for doing that. Yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like the platform really needs it. This whole platform feels like a symptom of loneliness. Like people want company.

So a lot of the people who come here are people who have stuff that they're helping this. Yeah. A symptom of loneliness. I love that. Yeah. So you're whistling. That's a tick. Okay.

So I can't help it. And does you're the right eye blinking, that's a tick as well? Okay. So you're not just, does it have any amount of winking or it's just a tick? It's just a tick. It gets me in trouble a lot, actually. Because if I go to nightclubs where I can't really explain myself very easily across the room, a lot of people think I'm hitting on them when I'm really, really not.

Yeah. So can you tell us a little bit about ticks and what's up with that? So I have a condition called Tourette's syndrome. A lot of people get symptoms in that early childhood. but my family can remember symptoms coming from about at least the age of one. I have involuntary movements and speech, so I'll quite often say things that are inappropriate. If that happens during the stream, I'm very sorry.

It's not a reflection of what I'm thinking, and that's a common misconception about Tourette syndrome, is that it's what we're secretly thinking or wish we could say. But if it's mostly word salad, you don't know what's going to get tossed up. If it's relevant to the situation at all, and sometimes it is, It's usually because I'm worried about saying it, rather than because it's actually what I'm thinking or feeling. Because worrying about being inappropriate quite often forces you to be inappropriate as someone with Tourette's, which can be very unfortunate and dangerous in public. But luckily, slightly less dangerous if you, you know, have an internet-based job where, you know, even if people get crossed with you, they can't do anything about it, luckily.

That's awesome. And so tell me, do you, have you noticed that some things make your ticks better or worse? Oh, yeah, definitely. I think that's the case for a lot of people with Tourette syndrome. Making music, definitely, definitely. A lot of people with even severe Tourette syndrome have, can sing without ticks or perhaps play an instrument without having any tick at all. There are lots of things. A lot of people ask if I tick during sex. And this is a question I ask a lot of people who also have Tourette syndrome. Cross the board. If the sex is good, no. because focus, if you're enjoying something and it requires a lot of focus and you're very much engaged with what you're doing, it definitely reduces the ticks. There's lots of, yeah, there's lots of things that do reduce the ticks, exercise, things like that.

I don't tick as much around my personal trainer. So he's quite shocked when he sees videos of me. Yeah, so yeah, definitely. And there are things that exacerbate it to, like high stress situations, high emotion, feelings of awkwardness. My biggest trigger is awkwardness. So I can't watch Mr. Bean quietly, that's for sure. Mr. Bean is amazing. He is.

So stress, and what about burnout? So I have always, I used to be agoraphobic, so my life was really still for a while, and I think that was the worst thing I ever experienced, honestly. So I have always been chasing things to do, and I can never say no. and even before I started streaming it was a bit of a problem because I used to run a business I used to care for my mom

used to care for rescue animals and I used to do rescue volunteering and the four of them put together sometimes I'd come home for an hour and then go straight back out again and I would do that for days on end and I would like fall asleep at work and then I'd fall asleep in the car

on the way to rescue work and I would just never stop and when I started doing... What's that about? I don't know I mean, I definitely have an aversion to sitting still. I definitely have an aversion to stopping for anything. And I'm not very good at attending to my needs,

so I quite often forget to make myself food or get to sleep or take time for me. I feel guilty when I do those things. So I feel much better when I'm getting on with stuff, actually doing something productive and worthwhile. Hmm. You feel guilty for attending to your... needs? Yeah, definitely. Like playing games or just, you know, just taking a minute to just sit in the

garden, whatever. I feel this like encroaching sense of dick, an encroaching sense of, like, I'm wasting my time, there's things that need to be done, I'm letting everything slip out of my hands, and I've got to get back to it now, sort of thing. How long have you been feeling that way? I don't know. I think I think it probably started when I stopped being able to go outside. Back when I got too scared to go outside and I was fully agoraphobic, I stayed away from everyone, didn't really speak to anyone for years. And during that time, I used to look out the window and see the summers rolling by and know that this was the best time of my life.

Summers, yeah. So years. Multiple summers, yes. Wow. And I used to feel terrible like I was wasting the best time of my life. Hmm. And do you, so can you tell us a little bit about when you became, as you put it, fully agoraphobic? I went, I, I, I, I try, I was, I was really young, um, pestering my mom to go, let me to go back to school because I was starting to feel a bit lonely and I wanted to reach out to other kids. Why weren't you in school?

we moved around a lot and even when we were still I wasn't we always went we didn't always have a home sometimes we were homeless and things were just challenging my mom needed looking after and so did our rescue animals and so there wasn't really much space for me to get a formal formal education so I started to get a bit lonely and I started to want to go to school but then I did go to school and even though I was doing well academically right of the bat I wasn't doing so well trying to integrate I had these symptoms but no explanation for them so I was coming across as a bit weird and it's not always easy to fit in when you're a bit weird and yeah some some pretty some pretty bad stuff happened so I kind of withdrew again but the aggression didn't stop and you know what do you mean the aggression

So my uh-uh-uh-uh-uh my last day of school, I was 13 and my four, I think it was for six formers. I don't know how old they are. The oldest kids are school, basically, beat me until I was unconscious. Holy shit. There wasn't much I could do about it. So I woke up in the, in the, in the, uh, uh, I woke up in the, in the, in the health bit. I forgot the name for it, the met, first aid, there we go, first aid place with their like, on-site doctor person. And that was my last day. I was like, I can't do this anymore. I mean,

it's not safe for me to learn here. It's not going to stop. So I left. But I had a paper out and the kids from that same school would continue to harass me, throwing stones at me, I'd come home bleeding. They'd egg my house and they'd constantly ridicule me. So there wasn't really anything I could do to escape it. It just followed me everywhere and my well just shrank and shrank. I gave up my paper round. I gave up going outside and just even opening the front door started to give me a bit of a heart attack. So people didn't take my tics well. People didn't, you know, there was, there was a lot of stuff going on that just I couldn't really change or contend with. So, So I just withdrew.

Wow. That sounds awful. It just sounds, honestly, kind of insane. Like, I've never heard of a 13-year-old being beaten into unconsciousness, nor have I heard of someone who, like, has a paper out, who gets, like, stones thrown at them. I mean, it sounds like you were hunted. Yeah, well, it's not always...

easy to explain yourself if you don't have a diagnosis. I used to wonder myself, I would do all these inappropriate things and then go, why am I such a terrible person? Because I didn't have, I would pinch people on the back of the arm or punch them on the arm and not want to and not understand why. And they might be, I used to get kicked off buses and things like that. And it just became very difficult to get out and now do anything. Because when people asked why, I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Um, so yeah, my world shrank and I stayed in all day. And the nights. and days blurred into one. Ah, I didn't, ah, I didn't go outside.

I didn't have anything new. So I was playing the same games over and over again. And my, yeah, I didn't really speak to my mom a lot. She was very, very ill. She spent most of her time in bed. The house was always quiet. So there wasn't really much going on. Anita, I'm going to say something that may be a little bit inflammatory,

but, like, it's honestly the thought that pops into my head. How on earth are you not way more fucked up? You're not the first therapist to ask me that, actually. But just, I've had four in my life, and yeah, all of them have asked me that. I mean, seriously, like, I mean, you come across as, is, you know, introspective, patient, intelligent. I mean, these are all the things that I'm feeling from you, compassionate, you know, aware of your internal state, to a certain degree, acceptance, which is a lot of what we talk about today. And like I'm telling you, I've seen people who are way more fucked up than you who have had way easier lives. And like consistently, right?

I mean, usually it doesn't take a whole lot to fuck up a child. And that's really sad. Like it doesn't take a whole lot to really mess up a kid. And what I'm hearing from you, like, I'm just really, really stunned, to be honest. So, you know, there's one part of it is like, you know, all the frankly abuse that you went to. but then you're also talking about a mom who's kind of disabled from a young age and kind of being left to your own devices. And so I mean, yeah.

Yeah. How are you capable of just functioning at all at this point? Well, I think one of the big things, and this is why I'll always recommend it to parents, is I was surrounded by animals. And that was partly my own doing, if I'm honest. So when I was really little It kind of started with rabbits We lived near a cattle market

There were rabbits They were being beheaded, skinned, cleaned, hung up by this giant lady with a meat cleaver There were these fluffy little things in cages Right next to the store where it happened And I was just like, what? And I was like really, really young, like a toddler's age less than four at some point

and I locked eyes with this little white when I was like the saint happened into you and we got out into the car park and my mom was like why is your coat wiggling that's how we ended up with minty and eventually licorice and dandelion and honey

and you know they were the foundations for my empathy, my patience and my introspect I definitely think that animals were the root of that because you learn to care for somebody else's needs with no expectations of your own. They can't give you anything except attention. And they can't. They, you think about, let me jump in for a second. So you say you learned to care for someone else without any

expectation of your own needs. Or sorry, that you learned to care for someone else without any expectation and kind of putting their needs above your own. I don't think you need to put a rabbit. needs above your own in order to care for them. But definitely I cared about them before I learned to care about myself. But the thing was, you know, I was a toddler. You don't really learn a lot about self-care when you're little. Yeah.

I knew it immediately. Because already I'd been through some stuff at that age. I was like, I already knew what it was to be vulnerable and at the big people's mercy. And I just saw all of these little things at the big people's mercy. And I related to that. I connected to that in an instant. I was like, but I really Go ahead, sorry.

I really just wanted them to be safe. That was the first thing I ever felt about any animal was I just, I wanted to be one of the big people that was a good thing, you know, a good presence in their life. I wanted to have the power to make things better for them. Do you mind if I ask, what happened to you at a young age where you had come to fear the big people? So much.

So, so, so. much. I had a violent relative. I had relatives that would punish me for my tics, which would make them worse, which would mean that I was quite often ostracized from my family and a point of shame. My family broke apart quite early, but whenever I would go and be with them, they didn't understand me, and they would feel embarrassed when I was at the dinner table, they'd constantly apologising for my behaviour, they'd constantly make me stay at home alone while they went and did activities as a family because they didn't want to have to deal with the trouble I'd bring. And I was left to not, I wasn't allowed to eat with everyone.

Like, they'd punish me thinking it would correct my behaviour and it wouldn't, it would just make it worse because the emotional side of things would make the ticks worse. And so, like, whilst I was well behaved, I'd have these stats of seemingly just out of nowhere being terrible, pushing things over or making loud noises or swearing. And they just didn't understand it and thought that I would just act out. out of nowhere. So yeah, I just had, I didn't have much that was fun. Most of the time, I was just scared of what they'd do next because I couldn't predict when I'd upset them. You actually kind of answered. I was about to ask, like, you know, you're talking a lot about

other people's feelings and how they reacted. I was really curious about how you felt in those situations. Like, what did you understand about why you did these things? Like, I didn't understand any of it. I just, I knew that I wanted to get on with everyone. I knew that I wanted to engage and have fun. I knew that I wanted to be accepted. I just didn't know how because I couldn't stop the thing that they were asking me to stop. And I didn't know why I couldn't stop. It was, it felt like it would happen and then I'd realize after what happened. And then my heart would sink. How did, how would you feel about yourself? Um, out of place. And always having to excuse or apologize for my presence there.

Like everyone else was getting on with things, but not me. I was trying to be a part of it, but always having to excuse my presence and always an inconvenience. It just felt like I was constantly having to apologize for existing. I mean, it's interesting because I even wonder about some of the things that you said earlier about burnout and sort of how you tend to ignore your needs. And I'm almost wondering if, you know, when you feel hunger or thirst, whether there's some part of your mind that sort of views that as an inconvenience and and kind of

views yourself as sort of an inconvenience that needs to be attended to. I'd never thought about it. Right? Because like here's what I hear, Anita. I hear someone who's very caring, but caring to the point of neglecting themselves, right? I think that's common among people who are carers, though. If the first level of engagement you ever know is a one-sided relationship, you end up emulating that later in life. Often our parents are the templates we use to engage with others.

And my relationship with one of mine was definitely all giving and without any kind of reciprocating for long periods of time. Yeah. So that's interesting. So first of all, really, by the way, this is awesome. I don't know if you're just brilliant or you've been through a bunch of therapy or you're well read or whatever. But it's, it's really fantastic to talk to someone. who is so introspective and able to really look at themselves. So let's think about that for a second, right? So you're saying that our parents are a template, the template that we follow.

But what did your parents model for you? Well, my mom was sick. So I learned a lot just because I had to learn how to cook when I was really, really young, like under the age of 10. I had to learn to deal with bailiffs and landlords and bills. And I had to deal with calling in about repairs and, you know, my safety as well. I was very cognizant with my safety because no one was going to keep me safe except me. So I learned to be very responsible, very young.

And I'm grateful for that. And when my mom was well, she was a really great example. She was a scientist. She was a really great at dancing. she was an accomplished artist. She was a photographer. She got so many qualifications and she was just brilliant in many ways. And that was very inspiring.

So she wasn't all bad. But I think I definitely learned to be most comfortable when I'm giving, but not very comfortable or secure when I'm receiving anything. Well, yeah. I mean, so you say that, and that makes that we can clearly see. The thing that I'm kind of confused about is that doesn't seem like the template that your mom gave you. right? The template that your mom gave you was to be the receiver of care, not the giver of care. You actually became the opposite of your mom.

True. Yeah, I can see that. Right? So that's weird. Like, because I agree with you, generally speaking, children become some version of their parents because that's what's modeled to us. So we just, you know, we learn through observation, monkey see, monkey do. But that's not what they meant. I meant as in like, um, um, Quite often I feel that we, our parents give us the template with our engagement. So if you have a parent who is quite aggressive towards you, then your template is when you grow up, is that you conflate love with aggression and you allow people to be aggressive towards you because your parents always told you, I love you, yet hit you.

And so you can accept that kind of dichotomy. I don't know what the right word is. When you're older, because it's very familiar, I don't know that I copy my parents, but I certainly copy or relive some of the ways that I engage with them, with other people. I think that's what I mean by that template. Yeah, so beautifully put, right? So that's actually exactly what we see. We don't see you copying your parents' behavior.

We see your behaviors as responses, the way that you learn to relate to other people, is based on the model of the way that you related to your mother. mom, which is one-sided caring. Yeah. What do you think about that? It's hard to break out of because it's a very expected role of women. So, like, other people are very comfortable receiving from me. Other people are very comfortable with me making food for them or giving them tea or

or bringing them gifts or attending to their needs or listening to their feelings. I think that it's very, very difficult to step out of that role when people are very comfortable with you being that and things like having good self-esteem and being proud of yourself or being open about your sexuality and things like that are quite often frowned upon and you know given women who do that are giving pretty nasty labels quite often so I think growing up people very much accepted the way that I'd been shaped and I was never really incentivized to change it can I think for a second so let's take your so beautiful example earlier by the way about sort of people who grow up with let's say aggressive or angry parents and who conflate love and anger because it feels normal to them.

And then oftentimes children who are abused will wind up in relationships as adults with people who are abusive. And I think you offered a wonderful and insightful explanation of how, you know, it feels normal to them that like you can, you can be the victim of aggression and also the recipient of love from the same person. It fits. And then this person ends up in an abusive relationship after abusive relationship after abusive relationship. And then one day they come and they say exactly what you just said. People are comfortable with receiving what I have to give. They're comfortable with me making them soup and listening to their feelings. And I could imagine the same person or like the person in our hypothetical scenario saying,

yeah, I date a bunch of dudes or women who are very comfortable. beating the shit out of me and then telling me that they love me the next day. People are just like that. What would you say to them? I think it's very easy to... I think it's very easy for violence to become invisible if it's all you've ever known in the same way that if you have a teapot in the room and it might be the most ugly teapot in the world

and everyone who comes in might see it and it might be the first thing they know it's in the house because they're not used to the teapot. But if you grew up with that teapot in that room, you might not even see it anymore. You might walk past it every single day and it won't be there to you. Sure. Unless the one takes attention to it. And so with violence, it might seem very garishly obvious, like very garishly obvious from the outside that an abusive relationship is what it is. But from the inside, if it's all you've ever known since childhood, that part becomes invisible,

especially if you're very desperate for love and attention, and that was also something you didn't get very much of as a child. Are you desperate for love and attention? I don't know. I feel uncomfortable with love and attention. Definitely Twitch was an adjustment in that perspective. I feel worried when that happens more than anything. Yeah, so Anita, let me ask you a question.

I agree with you that everything that you said about the teapot is once again very eloquently put. But let me ask you, like when that person, says, yeah, I end up dating abusive person after abusive person after abusive person. That's just the way, let's say, men are or women are, because men get abused to. How would you respond to that person? Like, sure, you're saying that it feels normal to you, but like, why do you think they keep on winding up in abusive relationships? Is it because everyone is fundamentally abusive? I think that people who tend to, I wouldn't know how to put this to someone in that situation because I think hearing it in and of itself doesn't destroy that worldview.

But I think that people who are passive in the face of violence attract violent people, because violent people don't hang around people who won't put up with their shit. So the only people they're going to connect with are people who are passive and will continue to engage with them, even when their boundaries are not respected. And those people are harder to find, but they will always find the people who will allow them to do it. So in a certain way, these people who are subject to abuse and people who are abusers tend to attract each other. But they're kind of separate from the rest of the world in that a lot of other people

can engage with each other without hurting each other or being harmed. It's just that this particular life trap tends to magnetize towards the opposite. Right. And that can definitely lead to a cycle. So Anita, who are you magnetized towards? And who is magnetized towards you? I don't know when I

before I started streaming there were a lot of dark people in my life because even now and my friends will say it I'm very patient my first reaction when someone messes up

the first time is we all make mistakes I'll make a mistake someday and I hope I'm forgiven for it we're all human and I try to like help them through it

and go here's how we don't do this next time don't worry buddy and I try to maintain the connection and repair it even if I'm not the person who's broken it. So my friends will probably tell you that I put up with a lot more than I should.

And that I probably do attract quite a lot of dark people. But since I started streaming, Twitch is full of givers, people who want to give you their time and attention with no expectation. And I'm not used to that. And that was scary when I first arrived. And now I'm surrounded by people who are definitely very much the opposite of that. I'm very lucky to have fallen into that place, because it's giving me a whole new scope of life

and friends that are really amazing and safe. Sounds wonderful, and it sounds like it was really a growth, a point of growth for you to kind of essentially feel very uncomfortable with other people's giving because that didn't feel right to you. Yeah, I found a way to overcome that, though. How'd you do that? Well, I thought about the, it was. actually something a therapist said ages ago. She was like, but it didn't really click until I fell

here. And it was, how do you feel when you're giving? And I went, good. It's a way to connect with people. It's a way to indulge the best part of myself. I feel good about these interactions. I feel good when I see people happy. And she was like, well, why, what do you think other people are feeling when they're giving to you? And I was like, yes, exactly that. So how do you think they feel if you refuse and you pull away? And I was like, ah, okay, no, I get it. Yeah, absolutely. I can text Slice it, yeah. Can I share a story that reminded me of something from my own life that I kind of learned that my wife taught me. Can I share that? So my mom and grandmother, so I'm, I have one brother. So growing up and coming from an Indian culture, like gender norms are very regimented. So like men do certain things and don't do other things. And growing up, you know, my brother and I were actually. actually pretty chill. And so, you know, my mom and grandmother would sometimes come visit us. And then they'd ask us, like, what do we want to eat for dinner? And we viewing ourselves as chill,

we would kind of, or, you know, actually being chilled, depending on it. We'd say, like, you know, you can make whatever you want to or like, we can eat whatever you want. Like, I don't, I don't really care. Like, whatever you want to do is fine. And then what do you think that did to them when we would say whatever? Any idea? I have no idea. Were they surprised? Were they uncomfortable with it? that? Yeah, sort of. So like, like, then what happened, they would ask us, like, do you want to eat this or do you want to eat this? Because my mom and grandmother would really derive, especially my grandmother, because she basically, I mean, she spent a lot of her life in the kitchen. And so she derived a lot of enjoyment and pleasure out of like, demonstrating her love through food. And that was kind of what she did. And so we would say whatever. And then she would ask us like, okay, do you want to eat this? And we'd be like, yeah, that's fine. And then she's like, do you want to eat this? And we'd be like, yeah, that's fine. And then she'd be like, yeah, that's fine. And we'd be like, yeah, that's. that's fine. And, and then my wife one day pointed out to me that you're driving them absolutely fucking crazy. Like if you, like, what you should do is just tell them you want to eat

something because they want, they want you to say something and then they want to do, feed you whatever you want to eat and they want to watch you enjoy it. But unless you actually express a preference, you're actually doing them a disservice because they're here to care for you. So like, let them care for you and just tell them what you want to eat or just pick something. You don't actually care. Just pick anything. And then pretend you really want to eat it. And then and let them make it. And whether you like it or don't like it, just say it's awesome and express your gratitude and stuff yourself.

And it kind of made me realize that like sometimes the best thing that we can do for people is for us to like, for us to help them is not to actually be neutral towards them, but for us to actually be helped by them, right? Is for us to actually like let them help us. Yeah. Sorry. That wasn't what I meant.

you know, I get that that. Yeah, breakfast. I can agree that, you know, being able to state your needs is an opportunity for others to indulge the best in themselves and to rise up to you that. And sometimes it can feel awkward and uncomfortable for many reasons. Some people have low self-worth and feel uncomfortable. Others don't like attention and feel uncomfortable.

Some people feel demanding and feel like it's too much to ask. There are so many reasons why many people I bet in chat feel a bit weird asking for anything. I know I'm not the only person and I still have to fight it on an emotional level even though I feel like I understand it on a What is the emotional level? What do you mean by that? Well, I think sometimes instinctively the way that we've grown,

the way that we've felt for most of our lives lingers even if we reason our way out of it. We still have to contend with the emotional side of things even if we understand how the trick is done the magic trick can still affect you. Sure. That's a bad analogy. Yeah.

What is the emotion? What is the emotion that you're contending with? Hmm. I think it's a mixture of fear and shame. Yeah, definitely. Okay. I definitely have to say it. What are you afraid of and what are you ashamed of?

I guess another way to explain it would be like, when someone's nice to me, it's always felt like I've taken out a loan of like two billion pounds or something. I'll never be able to pay it back. I'm not in a position. Like, because when I was younger, if people were nice to me, I was like, there's nothing I can do. I can't make this good. I'm just taking.

And everyone around me was always saying, all you do is take, take, take. You never give back. And it's like, I don't know how. You haven't shown me how. And I didn't really know what to do about it. I just felt indebted and it. And it felt really concerning and worrying.

But also, people used to be nice to me in order to, then later be cool. It was manipulative. There were adults around me that didn't have the best intentions growing up and I didn't have as much protection because my parents weren't there. So in that sense, it became intimidating. It was almost a threat to receive things and I might be blamed or people might get angry at me later for having them. So I guess I was just concerned in general, like that all of that would just hit me in a wave and sometimes it still does and I have to catch it and go nope, everything's good now. And, you know, I can bake the neighbor a cake next time, you know, and everything's okay.

So it sounds like you were afraid of the other shoe dropping, that people were nice to you, and then there would be pain afterward? Hmm. Yeah. So that's fear. What is shame? I heard a wonderful exploration of fear, but I didn't understand too much about why you felt ashamed. I don't know.

I guess I think it was instilled from a young age that I wasn't supposed to take anything. Once I asked for a chocolate and one of my, my member of my family went, no, you can't ask the things, that's rude. And really, really shamed me in front of everyone, like really loudly, everything like quiet

and they kind of exploded at me for asking if I could have a chocolate too. And there was a situation where I went to a friend's house and I made them toast. They asked me to go down and make the toast for them. And I went down and made toast and their grandparents caught me

I'm like, all you do is take, take, take. Like, that's all you ever do. And I was like, I haven't taken anything from you. This isn't even for me. But like, I immediately feel shamed because I feel like if I receive anything, it's, I'm not supposed to have it. This isn't meant for me. Like, there's this idea ever since I was younger that I'm not supposed to take it.

I'm not supposed to have anything that, you know, that it, I don't even know how to explain it. But, yeah. So I feel guilty whenever I do. Okay. Can I think for a second? Hmm. You wants breakfast.

Send it now. Press F for breakfast. Sorry. I like that voice. It sounds like a, like a, like a, like a Siri or something. It sounds like a, I don't know how to describe it.

It sounds like a voice that you hear on like a phone or. Yeah, thank you. It's a voice I often have ticks in for some reason or another. My ticks take to have a totally different vocal range than I do generally, for some reason. Some of them are high-pitched. Some of them have a list. Some of them sound like a sat-nav. Yeah, that's what it is.

Yeah. Yeah. And also, Anita, it's cool to talk to someone. And you sort of mentioned that sometimes emotions make your ticks more active. And it's been fun to watch. And I hope this doesn't come across as mean. It's just, I find it very, so a lot of times when I talk to people, I struggle to know what they're feeling or how they could be feeling. And it's been neat to sort of have a little bit of a barometer for what you could be feeling based on how active your tics are.

And that there are certain times where, you know, it's clear that you're focused and paying attention and you're speaking and sharing and then your ticks kind of go down. And if there's a period of silence and then your mind is left some energy, some leftover energy, it sort of manifests outward as it is a, is it. tick. And that's been neat to kind of think a little bit about. I've never been able to quite get a thermometer or barometer of someone's like mental energy, emotion, and focus in the way that I have in talking with you. So I'm learning a lot. It's actually kind of cool. That's cool. Yeah, I get a lot of abuse for it in chat because people go, ah, she forgot to tick. See, I knew it was fake. Every time she talks or focuses, she forgets, she drops her act. And I'm just like, no, that's not how it works. Please. don't pressure me like that. No, no, it's really not how it works. I mean, the way that I would

envision ticks for you is an excess of mental energy. So if your mental energy is spent in a particular way, and if we think about what does emotion do to your mind, it creates energy in your mind, right? So like emotion leads to increased activity. So the more increased activity that you have that you cannot focus. So if we think about energy of the mind is having inflows and outflows when it rises above a certain level, I think a tick manifests. And so the more inflow you have through emotion and stress, the greater your chances of ticks are. The more outflow that you have through, let's say, focus, practice, flow, music, engaged in conversation, that decreases the energy and decreases the manifestation of ticks.

I think it's really just about energy in the mind. That's such a good way of explaining it. Thank you. I might steal that next time someone asks me on my street. Steal away. And it's been really fun to see because even when I when I start talking more, I think your ticks manifest more because it doesn't require a little of your attention to listen. So I have a couple of questions for you if that's okay. Yeah.

So the first is and so let me actually start off by saying this. So, you know, it's clear to me. I think either you've done a lot of really, or probably both, but you've done a lot of wonderful introspective work where you really studied yourself and figuring out how the fuck you work, which is awesome. And it sounds to me like you've had a couple of really good therapists. You said you had four, and I'd guess that at least a couple of them were like really good and helped you a lot. What do you think? I'd say one was a life changer. Yeah.

The rest were kind of meh. But yeah, since meeting her, she changed her life. So I've been raising funds and giving them to her to pay for other people to see her because I really believe in what she does. So the stream has helped me to get other people to get help through her, which has been amazing. That's awesome. But yeah, I also read, but I think that agoraphobia allowed me to really stop and think, and process who I am, what I want to be, my ethics, my understanding of the world, and not fitting in, allowed me to observe from an outsider's role because I couldn't quite click.

And so these things have kind of come together as me just trying to make sense to the world as much as I possibly can. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. And I think you've really come a long way, which kind of makes, I mean, I view that I have a duty to people who come on stream, which is to help them understand something or grow in some way. I feel like that's what people come on here for. Not to say that that's why you came on, but that's what I personally feel. So I believe that it is part of my karma, my karma, that I've been given certain advantages and unique opportunities to learn and that it's part of my job to pass those on to people who may

benefit from them. And I never know who that person is. And so I'm going to ask you a couple of questions if that's okay or frame a couple of things. And then my hope is that, you know, when we think about burnout, that there's still some part of you that doesn't let you take care of yourself in the way that you deserve to be taken care of. And if we think about this, like, you know, there was Anita 1.0, which was sort of like the caregiver and wouldn't receive anything. And then there was Anita 2.0, which is able of giving and receiving.

and then I'm kind of seeing Anita 3.0 who is someone who is able to actually give to herself, right? And so I think you can now receive from other people, but I don't know, and I'm sure you can to a certain degree receive from yourself because I think, I mean, there's no way that you can become the person that you have without having compassion towards yourself. And at the same time, I see a little bit of a pattern left over where you have difficulty like giving yourself things. from yourself. What do you think about that? Yeah, I think if I took you on a house tour, you'd see that a lot. How do you mean? What does a house tour have to do with that? I don't buy things for myself. I, um, all of the people that visit at my house say my walls are there. I have barely any furniture. I have very few things. Most of the things in my house are rabbit related and for them or, you know, it's like, yeah, there's not really much that I do or invest

time in that's for me at all in this house. So, so I mean, in a broad sense, and this may be a little bit unfair, but I just don't know how else to describe it. Like, I'm, I'm trying to get a sense of why can't you love yourself? Mm. And that's, it's a good question. So, and I've got a little bit of a hypothesis. So what do you think about your mom? I think she's amazing. I think She's a very strong person, I think. She gets very fixated on a task, and she's changed laws, and she's changed the world in beautiful ways. And, you know, I think, yeah, I definitely see a lot of good in her,

and I hope I can match up to it someday. Yeah. So I'm wondering, that all sounds really positive. I'm wondering if you have any negative feelings towards your mom. No. I mean, the rest of my family, has a lot of criticisms because they think that maybe she let me down. But from a first person, like from an in-the-family perspective,

I'm not going to hate on her for being sick, not at all. And I'm really impressed with how much she did manage during that time, you know? Yeah. Did she let you down? No, I think she really tried. And I think that's really very, very evident in that when she did have periods where she had more energy, you know, she would always, you know, go and get treats for me and things like that. And, you know, she'd show her affection in some ways.

Not all. I've never hugged my mom. I've, she doesn't show affection in conventional ways. So we have a strange relationship. But I definitely do appreciate the times where, you know, she would do the most she could with, you know, what little energy she had. Yeah, so let's think about that. So Anita, I'm going to challenge you a little bit there. And I know this is going to sound, I'm not trying to, it sounds like your mom really is a wonderful person.

and that she really is inspirational. But I think that there's something very, very subtle. Because you've come like 90% of the way, and it's clear to me, like you've done immense stuff. And I think oftentimes that last 10% is very counterintuitive. So let me just toss out some of the language that you're saying, right? So she tried. She did the best that she could.

I'm not going to blame someone who's ill. All positive things, right? Makes sense. It's fair. But let me ask you something. Is there a difference between doing a good job and doing the best that you can? Yeah, definitely. So when we think about your mom, when you say she did the best that he can, the funny thing is that she did the best that she could.

The funny thing is that statement has an underside to it, which is sort of an acknowledgement that she didn't do a great job. Right? It's not that you blame her for not doing a great job. there's a difference between blaming someone for not doing a great job and like admitting that someone didn't do a great job what do you think about that is that is that fair i mean my mom had a disability i wouldn't blame her for being in bed a lot in the same way that i wouldn't blame someone in a wheelchair for not walking like this this isn't a parental failing this is illness you know yeah so this is this is

this is where things get really weird, Anita. Because when we look at your upbringing, so there's a difference between blaming someone for something and acknowledging that they actually like that there were problems. Right? Because if we look at it from the outside, and I know this sounds really weird, I'm really not trying to beat up on your mom. It's just I've worked with people who have been,

so let me, can I tell you a story? So I was working with a patient who, you know, came in and also had huge respect for his dad. And his, when he was young, his mom, when he was about nine, his mom got, no, when he was seven, his mom got diagnosed with cancer and then passed away when he was nine. And his, it was hard on everyone in the family. It was hard on him. It was hard on his younger sister.

It was hard on his dad. And, you know, his dad was really in grief. And what would happen is he would finish working around five or six p.m. he would go to a bar every day after work and then he'd have a few beers and he'd come home around eight or nine and his his you know 10 year old son and his seven year old daughter would be with a babysitter like they'd come home from school babysitter would pick him up and babysitter would be them from like with them from like three to eight okay so and he recognizes so his dad worked really hard tried to give him lots of opportunities did a lot of good stuff like you know

tried to teach him things and was a good dad in a lot of ways. And then when I kind of asked him, I was like, you know, how did you feel when your dad would like go drinking every day? He was like, well, my dad was like, you know, he had lost my mom too and he loved her a lot. And I don't blame him for going to the bar because he was in a period of grief. And then he kept on saying the same thing, which is like he did the best that he could, right? Like he doesn't blame him for doing that thing. But the weird thing is if you really stop and think about it, just because his dad, even if we accept for a moment that his dad did the best that he could. It doesn't mean that he did a great job. Right? Like it doesn't mean that he didn't let his son down in some ways. We're not blaming him for

letting his son down. Right. We're saying that he's got a good reason. He's a human being. He's hurt. He has grief. And so we're not going to blame him for that. But at the same time, we should be honest with the fact that like his dad, whether he is a good reason or bad reason, wasn't able to provide for his son what his son deserved. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so when I think about your upbringing, I think about an upbringing that really was not good in a lot of ways.

What do you think? Yeah. I would say that there were definitely times where I wasn't safe. There were things that happened to me. There were times where I needed to learn how to process things, and I never got. Any kind of, I don't know, emotional toolset? Sure.

To kind of handle the things around me. I was definitely feeling out the world alone in many circumstances. And I get that. And that's something that I don't look at as something like, it's really hard to say the sentence I deserved anything. I don't feel deserving of anything. I have no expectations of life. is chaos. You aren't defined by your challenges. You're defined by how you handle them.

And my parents, they were young. My dad was like young. You need young teens. I'm not sure when. And my mom was in her young, well, in her teens. I'm not exactly sure how old they were, but they're in their teens anyway. And they didn't really know how to be parents when I was born. So they were thrown in at the deep end. and I didn't expect them, I wouldn't expect any teenager, any kid essentially, to know how to be a perfect parent. So I just feel lucky that I managed rather than angry that I didn't get anything. And I don't really know how to see it any other way. Yeah. And that's why I think you can't love yourself.

So I know this is going to sound really bizarre, but just run. So like, first of all, let's start by, there's a 90% chance I'm wrong and 10% chance I'm right. Can we start with those odds? but I've got this really bass-acquards way of looking at this. So in a weird way, I think that you grew up with givers and takers, right? And your mom was a taker and you were a giver, right? And you decided then and there that it was good to be a giver and bad to be a taker. What do you think?

Yeah, I can pretty much agree with that. So if we stop and we think about that, if you say that being a giver is good and being a taker is bad, What does that say about your mom? Point. What does it say? That logic would say that she was bad. Right? So, and I think this is the problem with givers is that givers sometimes don't acknowledge that, like, they shouldn't be giving.

That the person who's taking from them is doing like a bad thing, right? Like, that's like when we think about the abusive relationship and stuff like that, because you're comfortable in giving. And there are some people who are comfortable in taking. And it can be hard because I'm not saying that you shouldn't love and respect your mom and I'm not saying that you should blame her. But at the same time, I think you should acknowledge that there is like a giver and a taker in this relationship. And that I find it as much as that you cover everything with like positivity, which I think is resilient and good. I think you have to acknowledge, right, I think that the way to really love yourself and I'll talk about how is to first of all acknowledge that like your mom could have done a better job. So even if she was ill or whatever, maybe she couldn't have done a better job.

You can forgive. So here's what it is. I don't know that you've forgiven your mom for raising you the way that she did. Because you don't blame her, right? And so in a weird way, like, you can't forgive someone for something that you don't blame them for. Like, if you smack me across the face and I think that, oh, that wasn't your fault, then there's like no forgiveness from my end because it wasn't your fault. Like what point is there in forgiving something if no one is at fault?

And when I think about what are you not able to do for yourself? What are you not able to? You're not able to love yourself. And I think part of that is like what we mean by love is when you indulge, you're not able to cut yourself some slack. You're not able to forgive yourself for buying a painting for your wall because it feels indulgent for you. Because in that moment, you're a taker and you're a giver.

In that moment, I think you become a. little bit more like your mom, which is not someone that you want to be. Yeah. Thoughts? I don't know. That's a lot of process. And I do notice that sometimes when I try to process things that are uncomfortable, my brain just bounces off them.

So it's a very, it's a very difficult thing to penetrate. Good. I mean, I think it's very good that you're noticing that. I could be wrong. But my point here is that, you know, when, when you were talking about it. dichotomies earlier, right? That someone can be aggressive towards you and love you. I think that there's a dichotomy here, which is that you can love and respect your mom and not blame her for her disability, which I don't think you should do. And you can also acknowledge that just because

it's not her fault doesn't mean that you didn't get a bad break. Right? And I think that there's a part of you that like, because if we think about it, it's bizarre. It's like, like, you don't want to be a taker. Like, that's the problem is that you're not willing to be a taker. You want to be a giver. And you've learned through a lot of introspection and growth and, and frankly, discomfort, how to take things from people or receive things from people, gifts and support on Twitch. But even then, like, it's like you won't even, you'll take their gifts and you'll pass them on, right? Like, you're like, it's like hot potato. Like, they can give you positive. And you're just going to hot potato it right out to your therapist so that she can help other people.

Like, heaven forbid that I take anything. Like, don't give anything to me. Like, let me just, let me do, let me be a good person and go help other people. And that sounds wonderful, but there's actually something really fucked up there, which is like, why can't you just accept people's gifts? Like, why can't the potato land with you? Why can't people just do something for you and why can't you take it? why can't you be on the receiving end of other people's like care and affection and positivity? Like, what within you rebels so much against that? Because that's why you beat the shit out. Like, you not beat the shit, but like, that's why you neglect yourself so hard?

Like, why do you live in a room? I'm not, I think it's fine to live in a Spartan room. Like, I lived in the Spartan room for years of my life as well. But, like, I just literally didn't care. And I don't know if it's that you don't care or that when the thought of buying something for yourself, is like revolting to you. Yeah, that's the latter one. So that's fucked up, right?

And then the question is like, why is it revolting to you? And I think it's because it's because. Sorry. I think it's, that's okay. I'm confused about when you're doing that, should I stop talking and let you get it out? Or should I keep going? Do whatever you're comfortable with.

I don't mind. I'm just wondering whatever facilitates a discussion. I'm comfortable either way. But I think it kind of comes back to the central idea of that, I think that you actually have some amount of resentment towards your mom. And I think that that resentment is valid. It doesn't make her a bad person. It doesn't make you a bad person.

And I think what you need to do is learn how to forgive. Because you don't forgive. You make excuses for people. You're understanding. Right? So like actually, like through all of your positivity, like this is the really, really subtle thing is you come across and you are really like caring and loving and forgiving person. But you don't really forget.

give, what you do is you allow people to behave badly. And you're so understanding that you let them get away with it. Because like, just like you said, when someone, when you said that friends notice that like you cut people slack, like we think about that as a positive thing. And I think this is a prime example of it absolutely is a positive thing. And 90% of the way, it's positive. But that last 10% is when it starts to become a little bit toxic. That last 10% is when you should blame people for being mean to you. You can forgive them, but you should absolutely blame them if they're letting you down. Yeah. And so I think this issue of blame and forgiveness is what you need to learn, which is like actually holding people accountable if they let you down. And there's this weird

kind of like, I mean, sure, your mom was sick and I don't know what kind of illness she has and it's not my place to be judgmental, but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway. Like, I mean, just the raw amount of Lord, have you read Lord of the Flies? No Lord of Flies is? I haven't read it yet. I still need to. So it's a story about like a group of kids who wind up on an island and they like sort of like become primitive and brutal.

It's like when I hear about your upbringing, it sounds like Lord of the fucking flies to me. It's like people are attacking you. Like adults are yelling at you. People are doing nice things to you and then being mean to you. People are being violent. People are hunting you down with rocks when you're on a paper out like what the fuck and if you don't blame anyone for that like that's not good i know it sounds fucking weird like i think instead of giving people excuses what i would really think encourage you to do is think a little bit about blaming them if you really do feel that way dig down and see if you feel something like that and then forgive them

and then in learning how to forgive if you can forgive your mom i think you'll be able to love yourself. Yeah. That's what I got. Well, that's something to work on. That's some homework. Yeah. I mean, if it doesn't sit with you, that's okay too. I mean, I'm oftentimes wrong because I don't know what fuck I'm talking about. Sounds like you do to me.

Oh, yeah. Am I allowed to ask some questions? Absolutely. What made you decide to move what you do onto Twitch? Just the realization that I I could work in my office for 10 hours a day, six days a week for the rest of my life, and I would never make a dent in anyone's life, like in the problem or what I've used the problem. Yeah.

That that coupled with the realization that most of what I do in my office is repeated. Right. So case and point, like when I'm talking to you, the reason I have this hypothesis is because I've run through this with another person who is also wonderful and positive and resilient and just a great guy that everyone loves and he's just so positive and like he's also a caregiver he's like a giver he like supports his family he supports his in-laws he supports everyone and and that like there's a very like when we become good people we start to not want to admit that we have like dark sides right like like you're but that's just not how human beings are. We have love and compassion and we also have hatred and shame and fear.

And you sound like you've done a great job. You can find your fear and you can find your shame so easily, which you really deserve credit for because it's hard to do that. What I don't hear from you at all is an ounce of anger or hatred. And I just don't think... I kind of save it up for things that I think are okay to be mad at. The thing is, I see anger as like a hopeful emotion. Like, it's when you don't stand for how things are, so you have this motivation to change them and challenge them. And so I don't let myself be angry at trivial shit, like drama on bloody Facebook.

But I do let myself be angry at injustices and let that be a motivation to change things with a better as well. Yeah, but you see that, like, you see how, like, I mean, it sounds so wonderful, right? But you see how fucking judgmental that is? You see how, like, you don't let yourself feel away about a petty thing because you don't, like, you're not letting yourself be you.

You're judging yourself for being, like I think it makes sense that you should be angry with injustices and fuel that anger and make the world a better place and like let's protect rabbits. Absolutely. But at the same time, you're also not letting yourself be a taker in that moment. True, but I kind of feel like there are certain things that define you. And I don't want to be defined by how I feel about trivial things.

When I catch myself reading something that genuinely doesn't matter or getting annoyed at something that genuinely doesn't matter. I'm like, am I going to waste hate on this? I can just move on. Like, this hate hurts me. So why just let it go? Is it hurting anyone? Then I don't care.

I'd rather direct my attention to constructive things. Absolutely. So I think that that makes sense. And I think there's a middle ground. Because I think you say I'd rather spend my energy on constructive things, which makes sense, which is exactly why you don't have art on walls. Right? Because you don't allow yourself the indulgence of doing things that are unconstructive. And that I actually think is not fair to you. I don't think you deserve to only be doing things that are constructive. I think you deserve a break from time to time. I think you deserve to be indulgent. I think you deserve to be taken care of. I think you deserve a day off. I think you deserve to fuck up. I think you deserve to put yourself first.

And that not everything in like, it's so subtle. because it's so fucking positive, but it's like, you deserve to be a little bit petty. Like, you're allowed to be a little bit petty. You don't have to be a saint. And I'm with you that I don't think you should, you know, spend time getting wrapped up and withdraw on Facebook. Like, I mean, that's just a waste of everyone's time. But what I'm saying is that you're actually at one end of the extreme.

And I think your way forward, because if we think about, like, you don't value yourself, right? Like, you know you're a good person and you value yourself in a very, like, big way, but you don't value yourself in like a little way. I think there are two things that are really relevant to that discussion and one of them is that you don't get to fuck up on Twitch. Like you don't get to misspeak. You don't get to have a past. You don't get to, you know, mess up in your relationships and things like that

because those things you'll be punished for. Those things, depending on your size, there are people who've taken like two million pound pay cuts because they fucked up in a private moment with their partner, something no one would ever have. Millions of people angry at them for, no one judging them for, no one, you know,

giving them hate mail, sending death threats for not affecting their job in any way, losing sponsors for. Like, this is a place where there is no room for fuck-ups, where there's no room for humanity. You are always perfect, or you are in danger.

You have, this place, people dehumanize you here. And that's something, I think, you're less at risk off most, but something that those of us who offer mostly just ourselves feel every day, because one day everyone hates you and the next day people love you and it turns on a dime, like constant. And the other thing is, I agree with you with the not self-care because I used to make art. I have a draw full of artwork right there. I don't draw. I've done one drawing in four years.

I specialized in animation and I haven't drawn since I left uni and it's because I feel that guilt. I don't self-indulge. And I feel like it's not a constructive thing to draw it's a self-indulgent thing. So I think if I take your advice, I probably would do a lot more up. And I think you sure. Because I don't think you have to fix the world, right? Like the whole point here, Anita, is that you you undervalue yourself. In the hierarchy of what deserves attention, you are way too far down. and and that I really wonder if like it's because you resent your mom for taking so much from you and you never want to be like her like oftentimes like you said we you know we like you're not actually like you're so afraid like you kind of say you even said when we talked about modeling

and how parents model behavior but you're like no no no I'm the opposite of my mom absolutely it's weird because a lot of times we're not the opposites of our parents but you point out that you worked very very so if we think about it if we're all The automatic idea is that if I have an abusive parent, the chances that they have an abusive child is very high. And if they don't have an abusive child, like if their child doesn't become abusive, that is accomplished through a lot of effort on the child's parts. It's because they overcome and fight against what they were taught, right?

Can I ask you a question about that? Do you think with your position as a therapist that you have a lot of confirming evidence for that theory that may not be relevant to the world because the truth of the matter is the children who don't end up fucked up don't come to you. I worry that we tarnish people who have had about abusive

parents as likely to become abusive themselves when around two-thirds of them statistically don't. Yes. I think that, yeah, and a lot of therapists think that a lot of people become abusive because they've been abused, but most people can try over that. It's, and we

I hope that people who've been through a lot of shit don't get stereotyped because of it. Because the people who come to treat those who fell through the net, didn't get the support they needed, and ended up abusing because they don't know how to connect. Those people need help. But they can also paint a picture to therapists and the people who help them. This is inevitably who you become if you have abusive parents. And I don't know that's true.

And I want to be one of the people that proves that that isn't true. I want to be one of the people that says, you know, we don't always turn out that way and many of us can get over it. No, so I agree with you 100%. So I'm glad you brought that up. So I, so I, so the statistics just say that people who are abused are more likely to be abusive. And you're right that it's about a 30% chance, right? So the statistics are low.

The second thing is that I completely agree with you that your future is not determined by the way that you were raised. In fact, what I've seen time and time and time again in my job is that you can overcome those things. And I think what we see from you is that you have overcome those things. My point is that that overcoming is, I do think that the people who were abused growing up have a harder game to play. They're playing the game on hard mode. This is the way that I'd put it. That people who have loving parents are playing the game on easy mode, people who have something between loving and abusive or playing the game on normal, and then people who have abusive parents are playing the game on hard mode. Now, all three of those people can beat the level at the end of the day. It's just

the deck is stacked against them. And sometimes the people, people who end up becoming abusive, once again, I don't blame them because I think that they were playing a tougher game. Yeah. So, and I'm with you that they can overcome things. If I didn't think that they could overcome things, I couldn't do my job. Like, my whole point is that you can overcome that. The second thing that I want to address is, is there a confirmation bias because I'm a

therapist? Very possibly, it's something that I struggle with a lot, but I really don't think so. Because I think that you're assuming that the people that I see are broken in some way, and I don't see them that way. I don't see the people that I see as being less than the people that I don't see. Right. So I think in a subtle, subtle way, like that in and of itself is a very dangerous thinking. I see normal people.

Everyone I see is completely normal. And that's where I start with it. This is just a normal person. And sure, can they be labeled with some kind of mental health disorder? Absolutely. But I don't think of mental health disorders as like disorders of people. I think of them is actually symptoms to deeper problems that we all face. I've seen multi-millionaires that are suicidal because they're not doing enough for their family.

And I've seen people in jail who were 16 years old when they started dealing drugs because they're supposed to provide for the three older sisters because that's what a man fucking does. Who is also suicidal because he can't see enough for his family. If there's one thing that my clinical practice has taught me, it's that the person in jail and the person who's the multimillionaire, at the core itself, I know this sounds completely crazy, but are far more similar than they're different. Because our society has taught us that these two human beings are fundamentally different. But my work has taught me that this is why I stream on Twitch because I don't think that the people on Twitch are rejects. I see myself in them and I see them in me. That's okay. Anyway.

So I don't think that there's a confirmation bias, but they're very well could be. It's something that I struggle with, right? But I think statistically, I also don't see, I mean, a fair number of people in my practice or don't have, even don't fit criteria. for a mental illness. I work with people who suffer and I try to help people with suffering, which would this says is like a universal human condition. But it's still possible that I have a cognitive bias, right? It's possible that there's a selection bias.

It's possible that all of what I've learned is like not fair or widely applicable. But I still think when it comes back to like you, what I really think is that like, I really wonder if there's a part of you that doesn't want to become your mom. Turn left. Yeah. And, you know, I'm grateful for that too, because I think every parent aspires to have a child that outdoes them. And I have the benefit of learning from some of my mom's mistakes from getting, you know, not having to live them myself to know the pain of them. And that's good too.

And I think it's good to some degree to want to be different from our parents, want to improve on the model that they set for us. I think that's a beautiful thing. So I am uncomfortable believing that, yeah, that I would like to be different. I would like that I can see things that I wouldn't want to do or be. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Let me ask you something. Are you, I mean, I don't really know much about your personal life, but is it okay if I ask you about your thoughts about having kids or whether you have kids?

I am not going to have kids. I'm not. I think if I do start to feel broody, I will. adopt because I don't think the answer to the world's problems is another DNA copy of me and by the time they have kids that DNA isn't passed on anymore it gets mixed and mixed again until it's completely different it's DNA is not a it's a transient thing it doesn't matter but there are people out there who've been through a lot of similar things to me who are waiting for somebody to love them and they go and sit out there and loved while I create yet another human being in a very well-populated earth

So I think if I did have kids, I would go and find someone that my tools would be particularly relevant and useful. So that's, yeah. There it is. Right. So I ask you about kids and what's your answer? That I'm not going to do something. I'm going to do something. I'm like, I don't, it's unclear to me what your needs exactly are.

But I hear the same axis of there are people out there who need my help. So who the fuck am I to create another genetic copy? What right do I have to bring? someone else into the world because there's so many kids out there who are suffering. You see how quick it is? Fuck me and what I want. It's not even clear to me that you want kids, but I don't think you've even entertained the idea.

Automatically, it's so fucking automatic. That actually upsets me because I think you're actually not valuing yourself there. There's a difference between saying, I actually want kids and I'm going to give them up, but I don't think you do that. See, this is the thing. You don't even, like, admit to yourself that something is wrong and that, give that up. You just slide right past it. And you use greater injustices to justify giving things up for yourself. It's so positive. And yet, like, there's a part of me that screams that you are

doing something to you that has been done to you your entire life, which is that you're devaluing yourself. And you were saying that there are things that are more important than me. That bothers me. It bothers me really deep down. Because I don't think. that that kid out there who needs a loving parent is more important than you are. Right? We all deserve to be important. Yeah. And you do it so quickly and it's like clouded with so much positivity that it's so easy to get away with and yet I feel hurt when I hear you say that. Which is fucking weird because you're talking about something that's so good.

Can I just say to those in chat that I still think it's worth adopting, regardless my issues aside, and that there is a certain amount to be gained from adopting someone and connecting with someone beyond a genetic level, but rather passing on what's truly important about you, the thing that you decided, which is your identity, your values and your, you know, your tools for navigating the world and those things are the things you decided about itself. Those are the things you can take credit for. Those are the things I think really matter about us. We don't choose what eye color we have, but we do choose who we are. And passing on a little bit of that in a positive way and helping someone else with that is beautiful.

And I think that is still parenthood. And I think it's an undervalued form of parenthood. And I'd encourage anyone in chat to adopt, regardless of my reasoning, even if it might seem a little bit dysfunctional in this context. No, I mean, but like, Anita, so thank you for sharing that. I think it's, I really do think your, your goals are noble and I support them 100%. I think you're a wonderful person. It's just, there's something that's just so subtle about you putting the rest of the world first.

Like, it's a weird thing, right? But that's what I hear from you time and time and time again, is that, like, I put other people first. And I just don't agree with that. And that, because I think you deserve, you deserve being put first too. It's one thing to hear that, but how do you put it in practice? Because the feeling doesn't go away. And sometimes I push back the tide and I start doing things for myself, but I can never keep it up. Like, I've had this issue for a long time.

And even when I did rescue work years back, I used to go out there. I used to do anything and everything. Some of it was like dangerous as well. And I'd come home and I'd be really, really exhausted. And I'd go back after an hour and do it again. Like I'd spend an hour at home a day for like a month and just completely burn out. And the thing with all of that is, like I would notice the problem, try to fix it, get started and then just fall back into it again.

And I fell back into it with streaming. Yeah. So Anita, great question. So I think the problem here is that you're overcoming something, and that's not a sustainable way to live your life. So like when you think about like, you know, your desire to make the world a better place is to move away from something within yourself. Does that make sense? Like I think like a lot of your desire for goodness in the world is like because of some badness in you. Like it's just moving away.

And then when you indulge something from yourself, it's like that badness within you comes up front and center. And then you don't want that feeling. So you go out and you help someone else. Which the world loves a relationship with you. Because you do for the world what all these people do and they take advantage of your kindness. The world takes advantage of your kindness.

The world is going to take as much as you have to give and it'll let you chew yourself out in the process. And it won't give two shits when you, when you burn out and when you're exhausted, the thousands of people out there who benefit from your sacrifices will appreciate it. And no one will be left to care for you.

And that's completely fine. Now, the question is, how do you overcome that? I think you have to figure out where that sense that other people are fundamentally more important than I am comes from. And you have to explore where you got that idea. and I know I keep on harping on this, this may not be right, but like, I really do wonder if you harbor some kind of resentment towards your mom. And if you do harbor resentment towards your mom, if you can acknowledge that, it may not be rational and it may not be fair, but you just have to like notice it, right?

And for you to hold at your mom, because you talk about your mom like an idealized figure, right? Like you talk about her like she's one dimensional. Like you talk about her His is intelligent and supportive And wonderful and ill And it's tragic that she Like but parents are not one dimensional Right all of us like I mean I hope I'm a good dad But I'm a fucking psychiatrist

So I'm sure my kids are going to be fucked up one day Because that's what happens Statistically right And so so I mean The truth is that there's no such thing as a perfect parent But what I hear you describe is a perfect parent And I think that's a problem and as you start to explore in what ways like where does that feeling come from like why is it like when

I ask you this question about kids like you launch into this whole philosophical explanation and I think great you guys should adopt because there are a lot of kids out there that need love but the question is as you as as I ask that question and you start explaining stuff what is the feeling that you're moving away from if I were to ask you Anita I think you should have kids How do you feel if I say that? Defensive. Right. Right?

So why do we feel defensive? It's because something hurts. We have to protect something. Time to tank up. So what is it that hurts with the prospect of you having kids? Like forget about whether you actually should or shouldn't. That's your choice if you want to adopt by all means go do it. But what I'm saying is like what is it within you that you are feeling defensive about?

What's wrong with you having kids? I think it's a I think it's a couple of things I think one of them is I don't really picture myself in a relationship I don't picture myself like I worry as well

like it immediately brings up the idea of like well most relationships end and then I'm eternally connected to another person who probably fucked me over at some point and, you know, looking at all of the awkward single parents, you have to see the other parent and all this sort of stuff. And I see painful connections there, whereas I see a connection that's based on someone needing you and it's not incumbent on whether you'll sleep with them or whether they approve of you or whether they can handle your condition. It's just a need.

And that seems purer from an adult. You're talking about the potential father of a child that you have? or you're talking about the child themselves? The potential father. Like, I think if a child needs you, that's very, that's a very clear and very easy thing to maintain and a very safe thing to, for me, it seems like that's not incumbent on anything, whereas a relationship is and they fluctuate

and they don't statistically last. I think that a child with someone, the idea of it carries a lot of pain compared to the idea of just helping someone who needs you. Honestly? Yeah, so that's, thank you for sharing that. And also like, whoa. Like, I feel like this is a whole different conversation, right?

So, because it's interesting. So I'm going to toss your words right back at you about, you know, children of abusers becoming abusers. Like, why do you think you have to fall victim to that statistic? Right? Right. If you can overcome your upbringing, because that was a long shot, right?

Like, let's be honest. Like, most people who grew up in your situation where they're physically abusive, the child of teenage parents, it sounds like, and, you know, left to fend for themselves. Like, most of them end up, like, you know, in, like, I mean, I've worked with a lot of people with substance use, and it's not, honestly, I'll tell you,

I mean, so we sometimes not really joke about this, but if I can share one other thing. So, Anita, I used to work in an emergency, room. I don't really do that kind of work anymore, but for many years, I worked in an emergency room. And sometimes we've got a kid who comes in, and the kid has all these different diagnoses. They've got like bipolar disorder, marijuana use, cocaine use, depression, ADHD. And really like with the diagnosis for the kid was something that there was an older woman in our psychiatric ed who was brilliant. She was a nurse practitioner. And she would say, yeah,

the kid has shit life syndrome. It's not that they have depression. And, and bipolar and ADHD, it's just like they've got just like a shit life. Like they don't have stability in their house. They don't have parents who are like stable. It's just, you know, the child services people are involved. And the thing is it sounds like you had shit life syndrome. Like it sounds like you grew up in a place where you didn't really have stability or care or support and you overcame the odds. And so it blows my mind that like you're afraid of the odds. Right? Because if you've overcome such long, long-ass odds to become the person that you are who's caring and compassionate and resilient?

Like, why on earth would you think that if you chose to spend the rest of your life with someone and this gets into monogamy or whatever? So, like, I don't even, let's not even presume that. I'm saying this is probably a different conversation. But, like, you have so many fears around, so your relation, your fear of having a child of your own has not, it sounds like it does nothing to do the child has everything to do with the partner. Yeah. And so, like, I think if, I mean, so that's got to be dealt with. That has nothing to do with adoption. That's just like what, you know, like where do you get the idea that, you know, this is going to like be doomed to disaster because that also hurts me to hear. Because I, I think that

it's possible and, you know, I think it's possible for people to meet each other, to be invested in each other and to build a life with each other. And the fact that you've taken that off of the table, I think makes me feel sad. I think I think they have some heal. willing to do. I spent several years in a DV situation. What is that? Domestic violence. So I had to flee

someone. I had to give up my life. I was midway through studying. I got my degree. I was studying for higher education and I had to just abandon it or move, leave all my friends to get away from it. He tried to end my life. It's fucking scary.

Yeah. Yeah. That explains a lot. Yeah. And it's been hard to connect with people since I have succeeded. I had another six-year relationship after that. But I, that wasn't the best relationship either. For other reasons, he never harmed me. But yeah, I kind of feel. Was he a taker? Yes. Still getting past that one. Yeah. And obviously that's how I get that window into how our relationship with our parents become so familiar that we end up reliving them with our

friendships and relationships there are. I'm very aware of that and still figuring my way through it. I'm still figuring out how to draw people of a different kind and to be in a safer, more stable place. Because sadly, and here's the thing, people get cross with women who keep ending up in abusive relationship. There are so many jealous men who are like, she only gets with dick, and smear. women like bird boys and all those generalizations.

But the truth is, I didn't end up with bird people because I love bad boys. I was hopeful and naive every time and every bad person will tell you they're good at the start. And if you're hopeful, you believe them. Yeah. And so I end up convincing myself never again. I'm going to go for someone nice, someone kind. So can I tell you to go for something else? Yeah.

I don't want you to go for someone who's nice. I want you to go for yourself. to me. So like the undercurrent for everything that I'm hearing from you, Anita, is that you put other people first. I want you to be in a relationship where you come first. I don't even know what that looks like. Absolutely.

And that's the fucking problem. That is the fucking problem. Is that you have no idea what it's like to put yourself first. You have no idea what it's like to be in a relationship where you get put first. And that, I think, someone. in your fucking upbringing, deserves some blame for. And so I think it starts with baby steps.

Yeah. Get yourself some artwork. Spend some time painting and see what comes up. You're working with a therapist now? No, I don't have one. Okay. Well. Okay.

But then I would say like, and then like explore that, right? Like, what is that guiltiness? Like, that guiltiness is you putting yourself first. Like, fucking put yourself first. You deserve it. And you've already made it. world, like, you've done enough. Like, you're already net positive, right? How many people did you send to your amazing therapist who is life changing? I don't know yet. I'm going to have to ask her.

It's like, I mean, if you sent more than one, then you're net positive for life. Fine. So you deserve a break and like, do something for yourself and put yourself first. And you've done amazing. I mean, Anita, you've just done such an amazing job, but like your positivity is infuriating me because it comes it the cost of yourself. And you're 90% there, but that last 10% has to come from like loving yourself and choosing yourself and putting yourself first. We're here on Twitch where everyone is so fucking selfish. And I don't think they are, by the way.

I have a better opinion on Twitch. I sometimes wonder, I mean, I realize when you're saying earlier about, you know, Twitch and failure and all that losing my income and all that kind of crap, I think, I mean, you must be right and I can see that. And at the same time, there's a part of me that wonders about like how much of the, that is because of the way that you view the world. That if there's love, there's going to be taking away of love eventually. Right?

Like I see that same dynamic of like when you look at Twitch, you're like, this is going to be temporary. The gravy train is going to stop at some point and they're going to abandon me. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know how on the head you are with that. My community will tell you as well because when I first arrived, I went from in three months. I ended up with like 300,000 followers.

the first three months. Like I went viral and it was scary but I didn't get used to it. Everyone was like, you're a big thing now. I was like, no, I'm not. I'm viral. Everyone's going to go on to the next thing in a few days

and everything will go back to 20 viewers again and I just did not believe it. And I kept saying that any minute now, any minute now, any minute now, for like a year. I was like, any minute now, they're all going to go and they stayed. And I've been like, what?

Like this has been like brain scrambling. I've never understood it. Yes. And this is going to sound crazy. But like, I think Twitch, like, this is going to sound fucking weird. I think Twitch is teaching you how to love yourself, right? Because like this is exactly what happens to someone who's been in an abusive relationship. After abusive relationship, after abusive relationship, after abusive relationship, is they meet someone who's actually nice and they're like, what the fuck is going on?

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, why haven't they abandoned me? Like, what is this? I didn't, I don't, this is not how things work. People get interested in me for a time and then they start throwing rocks. like where and then the longer they stay the more confusing it gets yeah and it's just bewildering because you weren't taught how this works you weren't taught that you can have intrinsic value and that

people can come around and hang around because they like you for who you are like it yeah yeah and that that is something that i i've been genuinely confused by and sometimes people have like donated thousands of pounds or they have, you know, they've, they've been following me for like 19 months and I'm like, why are you still here? And I'm confused and I will open and express it. I haven't quite learned how to come to terms with it yet because it is. It directly, it confronts something. I don't know how to process. Yeah. So let me, I'll leave you with this to think about and then we'll see. I mean, if you have other questions and stuff, but I want you to entertain a crazy idea, okay? I want you to entertain. I want you to entertain.

that people can see value in you without you giving anything to them. I want you to entertain the idea that sometimes you're the rabbit, that you don't have to give anything in return, and that people will just appreciate you for being you. And that you don't have to adopt or save animals or other things to be like valued in life, that you can have, and it sounds crazy, just intrinsic value. Not extrinsic value, but just intrinsic value. That just by virtue of who you are, you have worth.

And that you don't need to do anything to be worth something. Yeah, that makes so much sense if I picture it applying to somebody else. That's the weird thing. Like, that's immediately when you're describing that, it's easier to remember and understand those words if I'm picturing us describing someone other than me, which kind of emphasizes, yes, I think you're very much onto something. Yeah, right? And so I think you've got to explore that.

And I think it's it literally, Anita, it starts with little things. Like it starts like, I mean, when you say people don't say you have nothing on your walls. Like get yourself something for yourself. Yeah. Like do you have a bathtub? I do. Do you have bubble bath? No.

Do you have things? Do you ever use the bathtub and enjoy being in a bathtub with like bubble bath or other kinds of bath bombs or whatnot? No. I don't do that. Yeah. Yeah, so I think you should try. Like, I think you should start with petty and worthless indulgences. Because you're worth it.

Thank you. Any last thoughts or questions? No, I just wanted to say thank you for everything that you do. I think that honestly, I've watched a bit of your work before here on the channel. And I think the beauty of it is that a lot of what's being described as very normal human problems. And a lot of people in chat can definitely relate to it. you're helping people process themselves and the people around them and contextualised behaviour that they've seen or experiencing that they don't really understand yet.

And I see that fitting into place for people in chat. People who've seen your work, I've heard them talk about just in the brief periods that they've dipped in, it just transforming things for them. And I think what you're doing is beautiful. I thank you ever so much for bringing this to the platform because it's definitely what's needed. And yeah, I know that this is going to keep growing and it's Beautiful. Well, you're very welcome, and I greatly appreciate your positive sentiment.

It's part of what keeps us growing. And I can say that I'm going to say the same thing right back at you. Because I think you too bring a lot of positivity and wholesomeness. Like I'm not too familiar with too many Twitch streamers, but I think it's awesome how you engage in conversations around mental health. I think it's awesome how you try to be a positive person. I mean, I know we've been trying to get you to not be a positive person for last hour. I really do think it's great that you do try to make the world a better place. and the world really does benefit from people like you.

I mean, if we had a, you know, 100 people like you, 10,000 people would be better off. I think the only thing that I'll return to is that, and this goes for everyone else out there, too, is that you don't, you should absolutely make the world a better place, but I don't believe it has to come at the cost of yourself. I don't think that's fair. But, you know, I think what you do is awesome and I think that you're educating people around Tourette's and mental health. like teaching acceptance and all that kind of stuff, we're completely behind you, Anita. Thank you. Do you want to meditate?

Sure. I teach people how to meditate. Let me just think about what, oh man, do you have anything? You must indulge in some ways. Right? Do you have junk food at home? I buy treats, put them in a box, and then feel good that I have them there,

and then don't eat them. Okay. So do you have any treats at home right now? I do. Can you go get one? Yeah. Go get one. Okay, I'm going to turn the camera off real quick.

Sure. Go get it. Is that off now? Yep. So you guys should try this too. Yep. Cameras off. Okay.

Be right back. So we're going to do, for Mental Health Awareness Month, we're going to do treat eating stream. So if you guys have some kind of junk food or something, go get. get it. Right? Shouldn't be, shouldn't be a big ask for most of our audience. And if you guys eat too much junk food, you can also go get something healthy to eat as well. Go get whichever thing you get less, you eat less often. Blackface. Okay, so I should be back now. Okay. So we, we, I'm going to, let's give people like 30 seconds to go get their own food.

Okay. What did you get? I got some white chocolate Awesome It's unopened See that's the crime Should have been open now Yeah I've had it for ages

Is it expired or are you going to get sick? No no it's not expired It's fine Okay So let's get started So I want you to start I need it by sitting up straight Closing your eyes

And I'm going to ask you to think out loud a little bit Okay, so when you think about eating the chocolate, what comes up in your mind? I can already taste it. Okay. Mm-hmm. And does any kind of emotion come up? Kind of like relief, I guess. Okay.

Okay. So what keeps you from eating it? If you can taste it and eating it brings you relief, what keeps you from eating it? What do you think? I feel like I should be doing other things. Okay. Do you feel like you should be doing other things now? No, not after our chat.

Okay. So the first, okay, so now we'll, so let's just zero in on that, right? So let's zero in on the acknowledgement that the reason it has been left, it is left uneaten so far is because you feel like you should have been doing other things. and let's also notice that for some reason, and let's not be jump to conclusions, that feeling doesn't appear to exist within you right now. Right? So now I want you to open the chocolate. My first.

Wow. Okay. I've opened it. And then take off a piece. Is it like a big, it looks like, I'm just looking at it. It seems like, yeah, perfect. Okay. So close your eyes.

Think about eating it for a second. Does any kind of resistance to come up? taste like your mother sorry it does it what does it red does anything come up for you no okay

so let's just notice for a moment that as her mind becomes less occupied the ticks in grease so that's completely normal so now go ahead and take a bite of your chocolate just notice how it tastes and tell us how you feed pretty darn good

but shouldn't you be doing something else breakfast Okay now the feeling's coming back How do I push it away again? What is the feeling? Don't push it away. Guilt. Okay.

So. Shame. Eyes opened. Guilt and shame came. Close the eyes. Notice the guilt and shame. Don't try to run away from them. Give them your fullest attention.

What do you feel? Like I shouldn't be doing this. Okay. So where is that sensation that I shouldn't be doing this? I'll feel it like a squeeze. Wow. A squeeze on my chest or? Okay. I feel like pressure.

Okay. So you feel a squeeze and a pressure in your chest. So I want you to do is take a deep breath in. Feel that squeeze expand and then relax and let it squeeze you. Let it squeeze. Let it contract your chest down. And now breathe into it and then let it squeeze. And then a third time. Feel it expand that squeasiness and then let the squeeze. squeeze, contract back down. Let it deflate. And now continue your normal breathing and notice what's happening to the sensation within you. I feel like it is receding. Okay. I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like even just acknowledging that it's there helps me to kind of shut it down. Like it feels less powerful when I actually facing it. Good. So we're going to

go to level two, take another bite. And anticipate, let yourself recognize that that guilt, eyes closed, it's going to get stronger with your eyes open. Let it come in, right? Recognize that there's a part of you that is guilty and ashamed and that that part of you, that negative part of you, deserves the seat at the table. You don't all have to be a wonderful person.

You're allowed to be a negative person, too. You're allowed to have negative feelings. We don't want them. We don't want you to run away from them. That thing is not hideous, right? Your whole life you've been taught that there are parts of you that are hideous. That needs to change. What's happening to it?

So I'm just letting it be there. And it kind of feels like an urge. I'm like, okay, now you're done. Put it away now. Like, wrap up the chocolate, put it away. No, no, no. Like, that's my immediate urge. Good.

Good. So notice that part of you, right? And then tell that part of you that you're going to take a third piece of chocolate. And what you're going to do is this third piece of chocolate, you're not going to necessarily push the negativity away, but you're also going to let yourself taste that third piece of chocolate and just enjoy it as much as you can. It gets to bark, but you don't have to respond to it, right? You're not telling it to be quiet, but you're also not giving it to it. So the third piece I want you to try to really enjoy it, like really taste it. Pay attention to your mouth. Pay attention to the sensation of it. Pay attention to the way that it melts. Pay attention to the flavor, the sweetness, the enjoyment. We don't want to push away the squeasiness. You can breathe into it if you want to, but really try to just enjoy the chocolate.

It looks like it's good fucking chocolate. Guad chocolate is delicious. And just be like, yeah, this is great. And the last question that I'm going to ask you, and you don't have to answer this the right way. You can answer it the wrong way. Is it okay for you to do this? Is it okay for you to enjoy? Is it okay for you to not donate that chocolate to a homeless person?

Stop reading my mind. Is it? Is it okay to feel both answers? Yes. That's the right answer, actually. Right? Because I have, wow. I have, wow, I have, wow, I have, wow, I have, whoa.

I have the mental answer and I guess the emotional answer and they're both there. Yep, good. So now we're going to come to a close with this practice. So just sit with both of those answers and see if you can find any emotional answer that resonates with your rational answer. Right. Do you find any enjoyment within yourself? Yeah. So notice that too, right? We don't necessarily want logic versus emotion. We want emotion versus emotion. We want you to recognize that there's a part of you that enjoys this experience and there's a part of you that doesn't enjoy this experience.

Yeah. That actually the emotion that you feel is a judgment for the enjoyment. So that's actually more of a rational process than I think you give it credit for. Yeah. So there's emotion versus an emotion and then there's rational thought versus rational thought. Judgment versus, yeah, of course it's okay for you to enjoy something. And then down here, there's a sense of tightness and there's also a sense of like enjoyment of pleasure. Yeah. And Anita, you must do this. Okay? So you pick whatever it is, whether it's buying something for yourself.

And understand that one day you may adopt a child or maybe you'll adopt half a dozen because why adopt one when you can save six people? like and then understand that one of the most important things that you can teach those children is how to appreciate who they are and how to derive enjoyment from life yeah right and how are you going to teach them that unless you know it that's very true so do something for yourself do like you're going to notice it's like i don't know if you go to the grocery store because of covid or whatever but you're going to have a chance to indulge yourself and then you're going to rebel against it. But support that part of you that bought the chocolate.

That's the one that we want, right? Because in that moment, any of those like, yeah, I'm going to get me some chocolate. And so support that part of you because that part of you deserves a seat at the table too. And spend some time painting and notice how you feel about yourself. And even if you can't delude yourself or trick yourself into doing it for yourself, you can trick yourself into doing it by telling you that you're actually doing it. it for the child that you're going to adopt one day. Yeah.

Right? But do this. And for people who are at home, if you guys are way to indulgent, you can do the same exercise with something that is not good. I mean, that is good for you that you don't enjoy and just pay attention to what happens in yourself. But anyway, thoughts or questions before we wrap up, Anita? No, this has been really great.

Thank you for everything. Yeah. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to someone who is just so aware of their internal environment. And it's been awesome. And I think you're just an amazing person. It's been a blast talking to you. Thank you. If you want to talk again, we can dig into why the fuck this whole relationship thing and what you're afraid of there. Sure. Like that's a whole, I don't even, that's a whole other can of worms. But I mean, I'd love to help you understand that you deserve to be loved and committed to by a particular person.

You know, like, you deserve that too. Like, you deserve to be put first by someone. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Anyway, so it was awesome. Thank you very much. And stay safe.

You too. Have a great evening. Adios. Bye, chat. Bye. Okay. We did meditation. Okay.

All right. So let's think about, okay, so guys, a couple of recap. So first of all, so Anita is amazing. And let's remember, I want you guys to be careful, right? Because Anita is so positive, but like that comes at the cost of herself. And that's not something that we want, right? Like we want her to like, you know, it's just not fair. It's not fair that she should sacrifice her own happiness or own wants for the sake of other people.

Is it noble? Absolutely. Is it good? Absolutely. Is it fair? No. Right? So like let's remember that the way the world works is we sacrifice for others and others sacrifice for us. That's how the harm works. So I think that it's amazing what she wants to do. But then like we should and she's doing a good job and I think apparently Twitch Hat has taught her this is taught her how to receive. right, which is amazing. Like, let's just, let's not forget that that's awesome that you guys, like, think about this. Everyone thinks tweet chat is toxic. But y'all aren't toxic, right? You can be toxic.

And this comes back to Anita saying, can I feel both of them at the same time? Absolutely. There's a toxic fucker in you and there is a wonderful, wholesome person in you. There's aEOE healing and there's aoi damage, right? That we are both things, that she can love her mom and respect her mom. mom and be grateful for her mom and also resent her mom for being incapable, right? That's what kids do. Kids blame adults for all kinds of irrational shit. That's how kids operate. That's why they're kids. They're like, where daddy? Like, why does the sun have to go down? I don't want to

sleep. Why can't the sun stay up forever? Fuck you, dad. Like, that's what kids do. But I don't get any of that from her. And it's okay to be, it's, there's a difference between being rationally upset with someone and being irrationally upset with someone. And like, it's okay to be irrationally upset with someone. That's what most of being upset is. It's irrational. It's not logical, right? So it doesn't have to make sense and you don't have to dismiss it. You're allowed to feel the way that you, you do, even if it's completely incompetent. Now, should you let it dictate all of your actions? No. But I think this is where Anita gets into trouble is she does let it dictate her actions, right? She lets the relentless positivity dictate her actions.

She lets the fundamental premise that she is worth less than other people dictate her actions. And it looks so beautiful on the outside, but it's not fair to her. Right. And what's awesome is that Twitch hat has taught her this. Like, you guys get this? You guys got her hat. Like you guys got her there. Well, probably a therapist who is life changing has something to do with it.

Let's be fair. But when it comes to people who subscribe to her or stuck around or, you know, sub for like 21 months or whatever, like you guys sent her signals that were contrary to her worldview, which is that people leave and that people don't have value or that she doesn't have value. And that's amazing. So I believe in the healing power of Twitch chat and also the absolute toxicity of Twitch chat. I know you guys are capable of both. That's why it makes it fun. So listen, this has been fantastic. It was so interesting because when I talk to people who are so capable and so awesome,

I always struggle with the sense of whether I can help them in some way, not that I need to, right? But like Anita has come so far, but I want her to take that next step, right? I really want her to. And oh, wow, I need to do a thousand dollars. Wow, thank you very much, Anita. And yeah, I mean, I think like this is what we've got to do. So this is what we want to do, right? So this is what we're doing right now is we are doing Mental Health Awareness Month

and we're going to help people. And the way that we're going to help people is through our recovery coaching program. And what I'm trying to do is teach people to like talk to you guys and help you, like, figure out what is holding you back. Because this is crazy. Just think about this for a second, right? Anita is such an amazing person. and yet she is still holding herself back.

And the way that she's holding herself back is like, do you guys hear that when I asked her, like, have you thought about having kids? And she has this whole like rational justified response that is in response to something that she feels. Like, I can't have children. Like, there are a thousand questions that I want to ask her. And at the top of the list is one that I think is incredibly hurtful,

but I think she's got to explore, which is was she an unwanted child? Like, what's going on with like her being an unwinded child? going on with like her being an unwanted? Like where does it come from? It infuriates me that she has to feel that way, that she feels that way about herself. It's not fair. She shouldn't need to feel that way. And I don't know that we can do this, but we're going to try. So we're going to try to train coaches, or we have trained coaches, and we are, it's actually pretty good. I'm understating things. So we collected data for eight weeks and we saw that the coaches can actually help people. So we're

going to do this, right? Because here's the problem. Here's what Healthy Gamer is about. She asked me why did I start streaming? So I'll tell you guys. And this is why we're trying to raise money. So if you guys subscribe or donate or whatever, like, thank you very much. This is, this is what we're about. So two years ago, I posted on Reddit. I said, I'm a psychiatrist who's interested in video game addiction. Ask me anything. Post hit the front page. A lot of great responses. And then people started reaching out to me. And I was like, oh, fuck. People think like, oh, this isn't that wonderful? Oh, like, oh, you're famous. Oh, hardware. Oh, my goodness. Front page. Oh, so wonderful. I was actually terrified. My response was abject terror. Because what I heard from people over and over and over

again is like, help me. And then I said, I can't. And then the next person said, help me. And I said, help me. And I said, I can't. And that happened, like, literally a couple of thousand times. And then I was like, oh, fuck. There is a huge problem out there. And, like, no one knows. Amidst COVID going on. I want you guys to think about this for a second, okay? When COVID happened, we tweeted out, we said, how are you guys dealing with COVID? And the response that we got is that it's actually not that bad. It's not very different from my regular life. And so my first thought was, oh, that's pretty cool.

Like people are more adaptive towards, you know, COVID because they're gamers. But then another part of me, like, jumped up and thought something really horrible. The rest of the world is falling apart because they're quarantined. And we live like this every single day. that COVID quarantine is a way of life for our generation. That is fucked up. Just think about that for a second. It's not that we're more, like,

the fact that we're adapted to COVID is fucking terrifying, right? That there's a growing population of people who lives like this day in and day out. The rest of the world is fucking falling apart. And we're like, what the fuck is wrong with you guys? Just stay at home. Oh, you can't get your nails did? Like, who the fuck cares? Right?

But there's a generation of people who lives in quarantine their whole life. We heard it from Anita. She was agoraphobic for years. Right? The world is a dangerous place we don't want to live out there. And what I heard from people was even more disturbing was that I went out and I saw a psychiatrist. I saw a therapist because that's what everyone says. Like, oh, you're fucked up.

Go see a psychologist. Like get fixed. You're ill. You have depression. It's an illness. Right? It's an illness. It's not your fault, man.

it's an illness. It's just something's wrong with you. Like your neurochemistry's fucked up, man. It's not your fault. You're just something's broken in your brain. Go and get that fixed and then you'll be fine. And they do that. They go and they see a psychiatrist. Psychiatrist talks to them for 45 minutes. He says, yeah, you have depression. Because they check their DSM checklist, right? We have a checklist of things that, okay, if you meet five out of nine criteria, you have depression. Sleep, change in interest. Guilt. Lower energy level, concentration, appetite, sluggish,

and suicidality. If you have five out of nine of those, you're depressed. And then they give them a pill. And they, gamer, reject, lifelong quarantiner, goes home and he takes his pill. And he says, ha, ha, ha, I'm fixed. I'm cured. And then they log on and they play video games. And the next day, I am cured. I'm going to take my pill. take their pill every single day and they continue playing their games and nothing changes in their life.

And then these fuckers reach out to me. They're like, can you help me? Because you seem to understand something that these other people don't understand. I'm like, oh, fuck. Why did I start streaming on Twitch? It's because of oh, fuck. It's because when Anita was at the meat market as a child, she saw a rabbit that was in a cage that was going to get butcher. And so she tried to do something about it.

Y'all are my rabbit. Right? the rest of the world not doing for us what we need. I see a mental health system that is too old. The average age of a psychiatrist in America is like 55. Too old, too slow. How long does it take to get an appointment? Oh, three months? Do you have three months to waste? In a sense, yes, because you guys aren't fucking doing anything. But in a sense, no, because if you're like a sophomore in college and you get Fs for three months, your academic career is ruined. And it's too expensive, right? How much does it? I mean, my hourly rate is astronomical, and I see a lot of people for free,

and that's why I charge an astronomical rate. But it's expensive. Health insurance is expensive, depending on where you live. Weight times are super long. They'll see you for 12 sessions. We've heard horror stories. Who was at Ingrid a couple of weeks ago, like one week ago, told us the story of how she went to see a psychiatrist. She was waiting for 45 minutes into her appointment. The guy talks to her for five minutes, says, I can't help you, and sends her out the door. like what the fuck the mental health system is not meeting our needs right now and it's so much more than just mental illness right there are like so many problems like we don't have forward momentum we we rack up tens of thousands of dollars of debt for jobs that pay us $25,000 a year like something

is fucked up and and you know I don't I don't necessarily think it's our fault and so what are what am I going to do about it what am I going to do about it? right? That's the question. Like, what am I going to do? This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to start streaming on Twitch. And then the number of people that asked me for help increased. Now we get thousands per month asking for help. So what the fuck? Like, what am I going to do about that? Or am I just going to say, like, oh, I'm sorry, I can't help you. I only have 24 hours in a day. That's what I did for a while. And then I felt bad about myself. I was like, I have to do something. Like, I can't just say, no, I'm sorry, I can't help you. I've got to do something. So I was like,

okay, so we're going to start training people and like, can I teach people to help other people? That's where our coaching program was born. Because I don't think that streaming is enough. Like, I know that AOE healing is awesome and I believe that people get healed, but it's not enough, right? We got to do something about it. And so this is where our coaching program is born. This is why we have a Discord. This is why we have a community.

I found out recently, this is amazing. So I didn't do any of this. This is our mods on Discord. They deserve a lot of props too. So there's like a cleaning. hour where people log on to our discord and they clean together for an hour. We talk about our emotions, we talk about our feelings, we talk about all this kind of stuff. There's a coding workshop. There's a book club. Because here's the thing, the world is not going to help us, right? We've learned that.

Like, it's not going to help us. Like, the world is not filled with people like Anita. If the world was filled with people like Anita, you guys wouldn't need to do shit. Because you could sit around and give life the 10% that you give it right now. And Anita will step in and give you guys 90% and you all will be fine. But the truth is that they're not going to give you 90%. I can't give you 90%. I can give you 20%. I can give you 30%. It's not fair. It's not fair that it's 50. It's sad. But we're going to do it and you've got to do it too. So you've got to step up. You've got to take the time to get help. Right. So that's why we're doing the coaching program. And we have way more people that want to be coached than we have capacity right now. So we're going to train more people.

we've had thousands of people who want coaching and not all of them can pay so we're going to try to make it affordable and that's why we're doing the stream because some of y'all are broke which is fine and we don't want to be an organization that turns people away due to probably will because we'd go under in a moment but you know that's why we're trying to do stuff like this that you know I try to I mean our retreat in 2019 was free I don't know that we can do that again because the retreat may be way bigger this time I don't know when we're going to do a retreat, but it's one of our stretch goals. I absolutely want to do it.

My whole fucking team is like, you can't do this, Dr. K. You can't open your doors to the internet because you don't know who's going to show up. But there's a part of me. The troll inside of me is like, yes, you can. Yes, you can. You can do something absolutely crazy because that's what streaming on Twitch is.

All of my colleagues who were psychiatrists said, oh, you can't do this. You're going to get sued. So I hired some very expensive lawyers, and they wrote me a lot of disclaimers, and then we'll see. So that's what we're doing. It's Mental Health Awareness Month.

So become aware of your mental health. Show up here. We're going to be doing some fun stuff. We're going to be doing some educational stuff. Probably a balance of both, right? So we're going to do a lot of fun stuff. And we may, maybe you guys will get learned, learn something. Maybe you guys will be healed in some way.

And, you know, that's the goal. And then if you guys really want to, yeah. join in. And all of your donations and subscriptions and stuff really help. By the way, I actually should just express my gratitude there because people like Anita and Lily Pichu and all of you guys who have been donating and supporting us, I just want to say a genuine thank you. Because I was funding this shit out of my pocket. Now I can start contributing to my retirement and my kids' college funds and things like that. So thank you guys very much because it's great. Because now I don't, it's so awesome to not have to worry about paying my business.

at the end of the month because I'm streaming instead of seeing patients. And I'm really, really grateful for that. And I want to do more. But I realized also that, like, I can't do it alone, right? I can't fund everything by myself. So that's why I'm just eternally grateful for, like, every little bit that you guys give. I know it doesn't seem like a lot, but no snowflake believes it's responsible for the avalanche. But we're all a bunch of fucking special snowflakes, right? So let's make a fucking avalanche and let's make a difference. Let's support each other. let's help each other out, and let's try to make the world a slightly better place. And let's game while we're doing it.

Okay. So, I love you guys, avalanche pog, absolutely. You guys get that AOE healing isn't avalanche, right? One snowflake is not AOE, and Avalanche is AOE snowflakes. It's AOE. That's so great about it. All right. Okay, so we're going to raid,

Let's raid. So I think, okay. So you guys want to raid? We're going to do an exercise stream. Or hold on. One second. The wife.

Hello? Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Exercise stream? What do you guys think? Yeah, let's raid Anita.

Right? So let's send Anita some love because she, you know. And then yeah, so what we're going to do is, so I've been told, can I let you guys in on a little secret? So sometimes apparently when I ask for money, then what happens immediately is I raid someone else. And so I've been told for my team that when I'm asking for money, I should give you guys time to donate before I send you guys away and end the stream. My team is so mad at me. Oh, I'm so bad at this.

Oh, God. Oh, Twitch, I need so much help. I'm such a boomer. Boomer. Boomer. Okay, so this is what I'll ask. Can you guys, if y'all are going to subscribe or donate or whatever, like, please go ahead and do that.

And then let's rate Anita, because we right now have almost 10,000 viewers, and she has only 1,500. So let's blow the fuck up out of her stream and send her some positivity. And send her some AOE here. and like break, like not give her fucking psyche a chance to reckon, to think that she doesn't have value. We're just going to send her such a gigantic motherload of avalanche, snowflake, love, affection, and value that we don't want her fragile psyche, which believes that she doesn't have value

to be able to withstand it. Right? Let's just crit heal the shit out of it. of Anita. And just crit heal it and crit heal it and crit heal it. Doesn't matter how just just crit heal and send her some love and hopefully you guys learn something from it. And you guys are still subscribing so I'm confused because I can't rate. Okay. Subscribe next time. My people are going to crucify me. But if you guys don't subscribe, we're going to we're going to end it or donate or whatever. In five seconds, it'll be too late and we're going to lose out on money. But

Who the fuck cares? Because right now there are a lot of people and y'all are positive. So let's go do something with it instead of milking you for money. Go send people. Send love. Do it. Be a good person. And clean your room and exercise and like reflect about yourself and recognize that you

too have value. Don't fucking lose that. Right? Send her some love because, oh yeah, you guys. You guys are doing the same fucking thing where she's like, yeah, I can see that other people have value. But I don't have value myself. Don't do it yourself.

Don't just get away with sending her to love without sending some back this way, right? Self love. Self love, folks. Okay. We're out. We're going to raid. So if you guys didn't subscribe or donate or whatever,

no big deal. We'll be streaming on Wednesday. And thank you guys very much. Crit heal Anita. Crit heal the shit out of her. Thank you guys very much.