HealthyGamerGG - Stop Overcorrecting Your Attachment Style

Episode Date: July 27, 2026

In this episode, Dr. K and Kruti sit down with Lucas and Ory, a couple navigating an anxious-avoidant relationship while backpacking in Peru. Breaking down a recent conflict where they were both severely sick in a hotel room with mismatched needs, Dr. K provides a masterclass on how to navigate deadlocks, stop over-pathologizing yourself, and understand the hidden templates driving your partner's reactions. What to expect in this episode: The Anxious-Avoidant Dynamic: Why this pairing is notoriously known as a "match made in hell," but is actually the perfect karmic friction required for profound spiritual and personal growth. Conflicting Templates: How a simple action—like wanting to watch a video alone—maps to completely different emotional meanings (a healthy need for independence vs. a painful signal of abandonment) depending on your attachment style. The Danger of Over-Indexing: Why we shouldn't treat every single argument as a deep psychological issue to solve, and why sometimes you just have to "take the L" when both partners are physically sick, exhausted, and naturally regressing to old habits. Quantifying Your Needs: Practical communication tools for deadlocked couples, including rating your immediate needs on a scale of 1-10, and actively assessing how empty your partner's "tank" is before asking for support. Labeling the Flare-Up: How naming your attachment trigger out loud (e.g., explicitly stating, "My anxious attachment is flaring today") can remove confusion and help your partner understand exactly what you need. Over-Pathologizing Normal Needs: A deep dive into Lucas's specific guilt, exploring how recovering avoidants often demonize their perfectly normal need for space because they are terrified of failing their partner. The Illusion of Responsibility: Why true security requires learning to let your partner fall apart without internalizing their emotional pain as your personal failure, allowing you to pick them back up without drowning alongside them. Dr. K's NEW Guide to Love, Sex, & Relationships is here! Order now: https://bit.ly/4dO3x0VHG Coaching : https://bit.ly/46bIkdo Dr. K's Guide to Mental Health: https://bit.ly/44z3SztHG Memberships : https://bit.ly/3TNoMVf Products & Services : https://bit.ly/44kz7x0 HealthyGamer.GG: https://bit.ly/3ZOopgQ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Now streaming on Disney Plus, the Hulu original series Furious follows FBI agent Alice Black, played by Emmy Rossum, on the hunt for a mysterious and calculating serial killer. Both walk their own paths toward justice, and as their lives start to intertwine, the line between right and wrong begins to blur. New episodes week over week. Watch the Hulu original series Furious, now streaming only on Hulu on Disney Plus. Hey, chat, welcome to the Healthy Gamer Gigi podcast. I'm Dr. Al-Ocinoja, but you can call me Dr. K. I'm a psychiatrist gamer and co-founder of Healthy Gamer. On this podcast, we explore mental health and life in the digital age, breaking down big ideas to help you better understand yourself and the world around you.

So let's dive right in. I'm Lucas. Hi, I'm Ori. So nice to meet you both. Nice to meet you, too. First of, I just want to say thank you so much for taking time to chat with the community and answer all the questions that everybody has. So grateful and thankful for that. And then also shout out to know. He's also my cohort. I'm also becoming a coach. Oh, wow.

So also he's working his ass off. I will say he's always in there chatting and he's up to it. So I can get confirmation. The question is a dynamic about a relationship. So I feel like aspiring coach. There's some apprehension about sharing it just because it feels like so raw. It's not just me. It's our dynamic. So if you two are ready, it's it's more of a thing we've been talking about for a while. So we need an outside perspective. So we're sure. interested to hear what you have to say. So basically, I struggled to feel okay if she's not okay. And there's a specific scenario that came up a couple weeks ago where we were both sick and not feeling well. We had food poisoning. And she was sort of requesting a certain amount of comfort and care. But in that moment, I was trying to service my own needs and take care of what I wanted to. And we were in the situation where our needs didn't match in that moment. And it doesn't always come up this way. And I wonder about our attachment styles as well. We've been diving deep into Dr. Kay's Lexure's zone attachment styles. I'm avoided. And she has an anxious attachment style. So there's

some pieces laid. Oh, no. Matt's made in hell is what Dr. Kay said. So we're trying to climb the ladder at the hell here, Dr. Kay. We need your help desperately. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you guys can do it. So match made in hell. But one of y'all is is capable of the dark magic, right? Which I'm not sure will actually help in this situation. But, but, but, and by the way, even though it's a match made in hell, there are many couples that successfully navigate to graduate to secure attachment. It's doable. So you guys are not doomed.

But it's challenging, but keep going. Uh, yeah. And a little bit of background. I do feel like we have moved more towards secure attachment. Like, we've been dating for five years. We did a year of couples. Can I interrupt you? Sorry.

Before you keep going. Sorry. I'm sorry for being a dick. So lesson to everybody in a voice. and anxious attachment relationships, when your avoidantly attached boyfriend shows up on a couple's stream to ask a question about your relationship,

that means that you all are doing something right. So please continue. I'm trying. Yeah, so we did a year of couples therapy about we stopped six months ago. And our therapist focused on nonviolent communication. I'm not sure if you've talked about what non-violent communication.

is, but I feel like a lot of the tools or things that you talk about lean that way a little bit. And so we use that dial, that framework of communication where you say how you're feeling, you say why you feel that way, and then you say what need is behind that. So we try to communicate like that when we can, but then it's not perfect. So we think a lot about what is our need behind what's happening. and so in this situation where our needs didn't match, I don't know, I feel like oftentimes we're able to work through it, but in this one, I think I have the expectation that he was feeling better than I was at the time. So like if anyone's had food poisoning, like it comes in waves. And so I was having

like a really bad, like, I can't walk. I'm in a ball like, oh, my stomach cramps are so bad right now moment. And he was feeling better. And I think he was feeling like, oh, I'm finally feeling better. I want to do something for myself. And I was feeling like I'm really struggling right now and I just want some comfort. And so, and I know part of like the anxious attachment style is like you're seeking like reassurance from the outside sometimes. But in this situation, I felt like it was very much like not, I mean it is partly emotional, but I'm like the need is more physical, I guess. What do you mean the need is physical? Maybe it is more emotional. Like I feel like I wanted comfort because it's like I guess I couldn't do anything physical in the moment. Like there's nothing to make the actual

stomach pain better. But I wanted someone there like with me like to feel. What did you want Lucas to do? Full disclosure. I wanted him to watch the Lord of the Rings with me. Okay. That's a commitment. That's like three and a half hours. Extended admission. He just no I know. It was just like five minutes. Even if it's just like 30 minutes, just like while that wave, why I was in just like so much discomfort. I wanted to like. be with like not feel alone in my physical discomfort and I and I realize that I have this expectation that if we are physically sick that we show up for each other if we are able to and I felt like he was able to but he was choosing not to show up for me and I didn't know how to reconcile that and also while trying to take care like I've worked really hard through our relation to be

like okay I'm I'm taking care of my own need I'm not putting it on to you because I used to do a lot of manipulative behaviors where it's like this is your responsibility and that's a lot of what we learned in couples therapy, how to service your own needs. So I think what I'm struggling with is how, at what point is an expectation reasonable and at what point do I expect him to fulfill a certain need? And when is that unreasonable? And when is that like my anxious attachment? So now I'm having trouble distinguishing them.

Our relationship lays in your hands. Can I take this one? Yeah, you can take this one. But okay, go ahead. Great. Attachment styles aside, this sounds like a communication thing. And first of all, I've been suckered into watching the extended edition unknowingly. So, like, I get it.

But one thing that Alok and I kind of found was quantifying the need. Like, how badly do you need this? So, like, I'll just ask you, like, scale of one to 10, how badly did you want him to be in bed with you? That just clicked for me. I think that was really good. Something I reflected on is in my avoiding attachment, as I'm very self-reliant, as I learned through Dr. K. And that I assumed her experience was over amplification,

and that in my position, I would have not had asked that. So I think asking the scale will really allow me to assess. So like, but do you remember, like, on a scale of 1 to 10, like, how badly did you want him to be in bed with you? I was like level 8. I was just, I was rough. So for Lucas, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10, how badly did you need to, like, disengage and go do your own thing?

Maybe it's a cop-out answer, but I feel like eight. Like, rarely, I always step up and take care of her and, like, do these sorts of things. I was on an up for my sickness, and I was like, I can finally have enough concentration to, like, just watch a YouTube video, watch a Dr. K. Feelea, watch a Healthy Gamer video, and, like, not think about anything. And maybe that's a partial. So if you're deadlocked, that's interesting, because we've never been. I was just thinking, we've been doing this for two years.

We've never been, like. Not a single time. Because we'll be like, okay, I'm like a 7.92. So you win. No, I think we've genuinely, I haven't done manipulation to change my number. No, no, but I'm not saying that you have. It's more like when we kind of see like, okay, this is we've never deadlocked. So this is interesting to me. So what I thought was really interesting is what I was going to respond with is, okay, thank you for sharing your experience of the situation, Ori. Lucas, what is yours? And what I thought was really interesting is that Gruthi was like, okay, this is a. enough.

Right, which I think is telling. I thought they both described their experiences. Lucas, did you describe your experience of it? Partially. Yeah. That night I had broke a fever. I was on a slight uphill for my energy. And I was like, I finally see a little bit of sunshine, a little bit of energy.

I just need the whole day before I was just like in bed like not having a good time. So in that moment, I was sort of like, this is my, this is my time. And then she made the request for me to comfort her. And rarely does it happen that that we both meet this moment? I'm also trying to explore that side of avoidant attachment of understanding my own needs and not placing hers above mine. So it's like this really tricky dynamic where like I'm also like it's coming up as am I over indexing like my need here or am I just using this as a shield to not comfort her because I want to do something selfish, which is maybe an avoidant response. But yeah. Okay.

My answer is like a little bit different. It starts with a question, which is what does success in this scenario look like to both of you? So this is a problem, right? If the problem was fixed, what would this look like? For me, like it was like you either watch this with me or you don't. And I think for me, success would have been better communication in the moment. I think we both agree on that where I don't want to watch Laura the Rings because we're on like this third extended edition. We've been watching it while we're sick and I'm like tired of Laura the Rings.

Can I comfort you in another way? Is there something else that we can figure out? I think, and he kind of tried to do that, but he was more like, I'm going to watch my videos and you can, like, lay there next to me if you want. But I'm like, what I want to feel is not alone in my pain. And so I think that, to me, would have felt like success. Does that make sense? Yeah, I can see it's still alive for you, that pain, that feeling of being alone, being abandoned.

Because it feels like she. It sounds like you feel like you were like, okay, I'm asking for like, really. just a very simple, small thing. And I think Lucas was like, I'm maxed out. Like, this is the most I can do. I need to step away. Yeah, that's a tough one. I feel like we've been there.

Yeah, I've got an answer, but let's hear from Lucas. Okay. Are you ready? So I did leave this part out. I did try to throw out a compromise because we were in two separate beds because we're in a hotel room. She was on the other side. She was having like not having a good time. and a part of myself, I think, interpret it as over amplification of her pain, like I said earlier.

And so I'm registering a part of myself selfishly was minimizing her experience, but maybe also like trying to be in myself. But I did offer, please come over to the other bed, bring a laptop, like, just lay down next to me and like, I'm going to watch my thing. And like, you can watch your thing like next to each other. That was a compromise I had come up within the moment. It didn't aim to land. And then eventually I caved and compromised and watched Lord of the Rings, which I feel like is an avoided. Aspen's style, because I, like, placed my own needs and prioritized hers. Match made and help maybe.

Yeah. Which didn't feel good for me because I'm like, I just feel like you felt coarse and it wasn't genuine. Like, I want it to feel genuine. And so that it's. Yeah. We both lost. Then what we left out is that two days later, I was struggling to recover from this. It happened again.

And he had an interview the next day online. And he was like, you're having this moment again. Like you're the third, like, because basically what was happening is we would feel better and then we'd eat food. and then I would feel terrible again trying to like eat food. And it would be like I was sick all over again. And so this happened and he had this interview and he kind of just ignored me because I think he was frustrated from the time before and his like the avoidant thing came up stronger the second time and like the frustration.

So it was like a double whammy situation. That's why we're trying to register as I think are these outliers or are these a trend of my behavior not taking care of her? I think her, as she has communicated, one of her bigger concerns about what has happened. It's a big value for me in a relationship that I can trust that my partner will be there for me. What it appears to me that they're able to be there. Like, I'm a reasonable person, like if they're not home or, you know what I mean? But if it, to me, it seemed, I don't know, Krutti said, like, I didn't seem like,

I didn't feel like I was asking for much. And I want to feel that I can trust that my partner is going to show up for me in that way, but also being self-reliant. I keep seeing comments. Dr. Kay, how do I apply this to a situation in my life? That's literally why we created a coaching program. Our coaches are certified on an evidence-based curriculum designed to help you get unstuck.

This involves analyzing your patterns, increasing your understanding, and working with you week to week to help you develop a plan to create lasting change. So if y'all are interested, check out the link in the description below. Yeah. So that second time,

where were you on a scale of 1 to 10? It was a very same pain, same level. No, no, no, not the pain, but like, do you feel like you needed him to show up for you more the second time? Or was it less or still an 8? It might have been more maybe because he didn't show up the first time. I think that's. Okay. I have a couple questions, but then I also have a couple of answers.

Do you want to go first? Do you have something loaded? I mean, I'm quicker, I think, to just get to the answer, but you can ask your questions. Okay. So first of all, I think y'all are amazing. Y'all are truly so cute. Yeah. So I think that like y'all are, y'all give me hope for the relationships born and the depths of hell.

We're both yoga teachers. We're both becoming Qigong teachers. And we've watched Helping Gabor content. So we're on the up. I almost had hope that you could not watch Lord of the Rings, but I realize that. Just to give you all some background. So Return of the King was coming out. And she had not seen the first two movies.

So I was like, we have tickets for 10 o'clock at night. We got to start in the morning. And you got to watch both extended edition. I kept her. She watched 12 hours of Lord of the Rings in one day because I was like, look, you have to see the first two. And you can't watch the record. You have to watch the extended because the extended is just better. All this friends are there.

And they're like, are you loving this? And I'm like, she was, I ruined the experience for her because she was. She just watched so much Lord of the Rings. So it's funny that this is Lord of the Rings. If there's some weird, karmic, something going on here. My question, Ori, is in those moments. So it's clear to me that you guys are committed to each other.

It's clear to me that, you know, Lucas has come a long way, that you've come a long way. So what is it in those moments that makes it hard to remember? And I think you do maybe after the fact, right? So what makes it hard to access his? support and care for you in that moment. Like what emotion or what?

What makes it hard for you to basically remember that he is there for you, even if he's not there for you in this moment the way that you want, right? Does it just kind of go out the window and you like, because I get the sense that you can't act because the way that you'll talk about each other, there's clearly a lot of commitment. There's clearly a lot of compromise. There's clearly a lot of growth, right? But that feels far from you in that moment.

Yeah. Yeah, that feels accurate. Maybe it's something I think what comes to mind, which is something I think I've grappled with. We're both each other's first serious relationship. So we kind of just like figured out all the tough parts together. It's been like, it's been bumpy. This story gets better, better. Also for reference, we're travelers, we're backpackers.

So we're on a nine-month trip. We're also like each other's rock. Got it. Yeah. Like I call, we have networks that we call. But if we're physically sick, like I can't. call my mom to come over or like friends. So there's also that dynamic. I think it comes down to loving myself and feeling that I'm worthy of the love that he gives me and feeling like almost

like I can't believe it sometimes. Yeah. And and that anything that puts a crack in that, it's like my mind uses that as that opening. Yeah. And I'm aware of that. Excellent insight. Excellent insight. Yeah. I'm aware of it, but then like it'll still, it'll still, it'll still. It'll will still happen. I feel like it's a lot better than it used to me. Because I think it used to cause a lot of certain like behaviors. Now I think it causes

less behavior and the thoughts are there. They're less, but yeah. I think that is who's your question. Yeah, I can see how you know, that crack really lets the flood through, right? And then even when you're talking about it, like it's clear that you're recalling how overwhelming it feels,

how kind of abandoned do you feel? Right. And then Lucas is stuck with sort of like, am I an asshole? Or is this part of her self-reliance growth journey? Right? Like, we can't tell. No, we can't. Is this anxious attachment out of control or avoided attachment out of control?

Which one of us? We can't even figure out. I can't tell if I'm the one who's fucked up or he's the one who's fucked up. Okay? Yeah. So there's like two things that make avoidant and anxious attachment relationships hard. One is when two people aren't trying. And they're just in their own patterns and you're manipulative and he's running away and you guys are completely unconscious and everyone is getting torn apart all the time.

What's really scary is that when two people love each other a lot, when they go to couples therapy, when they show up on a stream, when they watch, when they're becoming Qigong masters, they're backpacking together. You guys are doing everything right and it's still hard. Like look at this situation. It's like, how do we know? Is this a moment of personal growth or is this a moment where my. partner is falling into their lack of personal growth, right? I think one thing that we've learned, I don't know if Grutti would even agree with this. I think there's some times where there's just an L, there's just a loss. This is actually not a moment of growth. And I think one of the biggest

mistakes that we can sometimes make is correcting for every failure. Not every failure is a mistake, right? We should learn from our mistakes, not learn from our failures. So sometimes what I'm hearing is that y'all are backpacking. Y'all are together all the time. Both y'all are sick. And something fell apart between you. Yeah. So I don't know that there is, I don't care who you are, unless you're two Buddhas who are in a loving relationship. Like, there are going to be some situations where things fall apart, the physical stress that you're under, you're going to regress, you're going to slip back into your patterns, right? So you don't want to correct your everyday formula. Right. So like, if I'm like serving I don't know, a shrimp pasta and someone comes into the restaurant and is allergic to shrimp and dies,

I don't want to stop serving shrimp pasta automatically. Does that kind of make sense? So I think sometimes in relationships, things are just bad. And that's okay. And y'all don't actually have to over index or correct for that. That's number one, which doesn't mean that you guys, I mean, I think you're, y'all have both articulated a couple of really good things. But I think like this is a really good, it's hard to describe, but I feel like don't over correct for y'all's attachment style. the nature of the attachment style is that it activates, kind of fucks things up for like a couple of days because y'all are sick, right? But at the end of the day, that has passed.

It still hurts in some ways. There's some work to be done, but saying ignore it. But like, don't over index to correct it is my first instinct. Y'all are on the right path, right? And you guys have done so much positive work behind you. That is all paying in dividends, but y'all are still learning. Y'all aren't perfect yet. And sometimes both of y'all are going to get activated.

and you'll go back to the people that you were five years ago, which is what happens with the regression and physical illness. Now, if one of y'all develops a chronic illness or something like that, that's a different story, right? Because then you guys need to develop a dynamic that will account for this outlier. Second thing is, I think this is a really good example of conflicting templates. So, ORI has an idea of in this situation, this thing means this thing, right? So if he doesn't do something, that means that he doesn't. care, right? And ORI has a different template, which is like, this is a situation where he's all up in his head. He's like, I don't know if this is like her anxious attachment being overblown. And then there's this tricky thing, right? Because it's like, okay, if we feed the anxious attachment, it sometimes gets better and it sometimes gets worse. So I don't know what to do. Am I avoidantly attached? He's in his own head. He doesn't know really what's going on. But there's also, I think the key thing here is getting underneath the template, if you guys do want something to work on, which I think you all, you were sort of saying like, like, you know, to be able to say like, hey, in this moment. And so one thing that I find is a psychiatrist is I will actually, when people have

personality disorders or attachment styles, so this is like kind of baked into you, you know, I will have people put names to it. And so when I have a patient who has like BPD, for example, BPD gets better with stability, but it doesn't get better with like unresponsiveness. So I'll, I've literally had patients who will tell their partner, hey, BPD is just really active today and like, I need your help with that. Right. So this is well like, hey, my anxious. attachment is flaring. Like I've got that, you know, my, my, my knee is hurting today. Like, my anxious attachment is flaring. Yeah. Question. Are you a baby a lot? Like, do you need a lot of TLC? Do you need, like, a lot of cuddles and get tucked in and like a lot of physical affection?

Maybe. Oh. Yes. Yeah. And then Lucas, does it feel like, okay, I've given you all the kisses I can today or like, do you get burnt out on like, like, do you get touched out a little? Yeah, this is something we sort of worked through at the beginning where I was extending my capacity to extend that to her and then burning myself out, not meeting my own needs. So it's been a development of like her working on the reassurance part and me working on the reassuring but also taking care of myself. One thing we watched on you guys' stream, which I don't know if you do still do it, but Dr. Kay went where, which was your implication that you're asking for something that was like, it's high maintenance. I think is what Dr. Kay said. but it's something that you want regardless. Exactly.

I think that's kind of where when he talks about naming things, like we have a similar dynamic where we're both very high maintenance, right? We both like, like, I need a lot of physical touch, a lot of physical comfort. He like needs things set up just so like, hey, can you like, you'll be in bed. And he's like, I need a glass of water. Also can he fix the AC? Can you close a door? That light is still on.

That's like that kind of crap. Right. Yeah, exactly. I know. I know. And I'm like, if I have to come back here one more time, oh, you need a napkin now, you know what I mean? Like that's where it's just like, that's, I'm closing door by, I can't hear you, you know? So like, I think naming those of like, it really goes a long way.

And like, if I need a lot of like, if I need a lot of verbal reassurance, I'm like, I need you to tell me sweet things. Like, we just kind of name it. And it really helps in the communication. This feels more than anything, a communication breakdown. You guys have your patterns and your needs and stuff. but I think naming things, the scale of 1 to 10, and then, like, being able to recognize, like, I was at an 8 before I didn't get it, and that hurt.

I'm at a 9 and a half now. And then I was thinking about you guys being deadlocked at 8, and I feel like in that situation, both of you saying, okay, let's both give each other what we need. Like, go ahead, take some space, come back and give me 10 minutes when you can. Might be, like, a good way for you guys to each say to each other. Like, we both really need something. But I think it's communication and compromise. It's not one or the other. Like, find a way for you guys to both get what you need.

I think it's interesting because I was actually leaning a little bit. I think people over-emphasize communication actually, ironically. Right. So I think sometimes, like, you just take the L. Like, sometimes, like, it's just a bad situation. And over-correcting for that can be like, because y'all are trying so hard right now to figure it out. I think that's true. I don't think this is one of them. I think this is a learning moment. Agreed, agreed. So that's one perspective. Second perspective is I do think that. There's some understanding of templates, right, where like the more Lucas understands what works for you and what doesn't work for you, you know, to read each other's signals to understand that you don't have the bandwidth to watch Lord of the Rings right now. But for you to understand that this is her signaling, something that she's not even consciously aware of in her template for her to ask this kind of thing, what she may need is physical touch, right? What she may need is a kiss or she needs some sense. signal from you that I'm not abandoning you. Like she needs the anti-abandonment signal. And I think

similarly in that way, so I will, I've noticed that about Gruthy as well, where like sometimes she needs a signal that she doesn't know how to ask for, right? And this is where you use the dark magic. This is one of the, it is to be used rarely and only under, only under certain circumstances, right? For you to be able to read and understand, okay, this is what she needs. Now, if she can explain, it to you in therapy or whatever, like great. But like for you to know like, okay, in in the future, she may just need physical affection. So what I've done in our relationship is just ramp up physical affection like a ton because I've noticed that and this is another important thing in a relationship. Sometimes people get there's an efficiency of what it costs to give something and what someone

receives. Right. So it costs me not much to give her a hug. So every time I walk by, give her a hug, give her a kiss, right? But it, it feel, so then this is the other communication thing. So we use other, two other things to quantify. So we use the ranking system, but sometimes we'll use how empty is your tank, right? So like where, like how empty are you right now? So like literally, it'll be like, our kids are going to come home soon. And then when they come home, we're going to have to do bedtime or whatever, right? And then I'm just going to ask her, how empty is your tank? And so to gauge where people are. And the other thing that we have is how full is your cup. So like when your cup is full, that's like, what's your contentment level? What's your energy level? And where are you on a scale of 1 to 10? Those are three communication things that I think have really helped us. I'll just ask her straight up, how empty are you. It's not about whether she had a hard day or I had a hard day. Because sometimes you have a hard day and your cup, you're still like, you still got some juice left, right? And it's like, you know what? You relax, even though I've had a harder day. You recharge your battery more. Then your battery is full in tomorrow. You're going to get a text.

I need a napkin. I need this. I need this. Right. Like, I'm going to, I'm going to give you a chance to rest. And when you have energy, fucking spoil me. Okay. Right.

So that's where I do think there's absolutely a communication element. But I think it's like these three things, right? You guys are going to have some bumps in the road. Like, don't over index. Understand each other's template. And one to 10, how to be able to gauge each other. Right? Because you guys don't know each other's templates.

So like, where are you right now? And if, if Ori says, look, I'm absolutely empty. And you're like, I'm feeling a little bit better. That's what's so hurtful, right? Is she sees you feeling a little bit better and her needs are still quite acute. That doesn't make you an asshole, Lucas, by the way, right? Yeah, you give us so much.

I don't know if I have a question, but maybe a response. I think the relationship that we've had has given me so much personal growth and I think spiritual growth. So it's like, it's a match made in hell. But it's like, if we're really working through it, right? Yes. With the opportunity to learn, it could be a match made in heaven. I'm so glad you said that, Lucas, because I think we sometimes grossly undress, we all want good things, but like we underestimate from like, this is like, carmic and spiritual and whatnot, but like this was your karma, right? So you're, if we, if we assume that some of this weird Hindu Buddha stuff is correct, your soul, if you believe in this stuff, is omnipotent and omniscient and chooses the time and place of your birth. You have these dormant carmas, which are going to bear fruit in this life. And y'all have a.

karma, you were made for each other to have this kind of growth. And these tensions are what demand that you increase your awareness and become more spiritual, become better people. And without each other, this would not happen. So this is not a match made in hell. It is a match made in heaven, like literally, like in the stars. And so I'm a big believer in that, which is why like, you know, I love working with people with like BPD and NPD and antisocial personality disorder and addicts and all these people that are like, you know, bad cases. And I think y'all are such an amazing example of why we started this community and why you should not let the things that are bad, like y'all have avoidant anxious attachment. Oh my God. Securities attachment is better. But no one is screwed. You guys

are such great examples of like what growth looks like and how amazing it can truly be. And just because you've got dealt a certain hands or hand of cards in life does not mean that you can't be having happy, can't be in a loving relationship. So props to both y'all. I have one last thing for you guys. Yeah. But I agree. I think y'all are great. And I think this is very fun to kind of hear and talk about and kind of see a lot of our patterns mirrored in you guys. Because y'all are traveling. Do you guys have a lot of friends where you're going? Are you guys alone a lot? The two of you? We've been alone. We make friends. Yeah, we're good at making friends and we keep in touch with our friends back home and family. But yeah, we're together a lot. Yeah. I will say it can be more

challenging, taking care of each other when you guys are all you have, right? When you're the only person closed, because you mentioned like, I can't call my mom, right? So I would just be a little mindful of that. Like maybe when you go back home, really immerse yourself in your tribe and give each other a break. Like when you're back and like you're all each other have again, like you don't feel as like tapped out. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we'll keep that in mind. We got a couple more months and then yeah. Awesome. Quality recharge. I have a follow question if you have time. I know that this dream is maybe longer than I did.

I know originally one of your questions was feeling that your emotional state is attached to my emotional state and I don't know if I feel clarity around that. Yeah, like a not feeling well, she doesn't feel well. It's like that

avoid an anxious dynamic or is this is this codependency because we spend time together? I would actually say neither, right? So I think here's how I would just speed run it, right? So yes, we're over time, but you guys have also been incredibly patient. You all have been waiting for four hours. So let's do our best to honor that.

So Lucas, I think this has more to do with you than it has to do with avoidant attachment, right? So I think you struggle with being a dick. And so you place your own self-worth in your rise out of no longer being avoidant. You place a lot of value on, okay, I need to be a better person, right? And so I think you're, so in order to live up to that ideal, it hurts a lot to have her hurt. And then you beat yourself up as well because you're programmed in a particular way. And when you have needs that are driven by avoidant an attachment or not even avoidant than avoidant, then when you have completely normal needs, you label them as avoidant

to demonize yourself because you feel bad, because you're not living up to her emotional needs. That's the inside I was looking for. Yeah, I think there's a lot of pieces there I'm going to sit with. Yeah. But I mean, I could be wrong, right? So I could be wrong. I mean, it seemed like you were nodding along and stuff. So that's like your personal struggle, right? That's your personal growth. Don't over pathologize and like just continue to work on that and recognize, you know, so once you understand that you are enough, that you are doing a good job, then you can understand, okay, this is her anxious attachment. This isn't a deficiency on my part. And you're trying so hard to no longer be deficient for her. So then it gets really tricky. right because that ideal is going to like bring up all of this kind of stuff which is a wonderful ideal to have but you're still you know working your way to like okay i have done it i'm no longer avoidant the moment that you understand that the moment you have confidence in who you are you will be able to let her fall apart without you taking responsibility and then something beautiful can happen you're not responsible for it but you can pick her back up not your fault that she's falling apart but you're still going to pick her back up and right now that that distinction is going to be hard. So I watched Healthy Gamer. That was true. Beautifully said, I think you have a good pulse for the tension there that I'm currently coming out of. And it's sort of like a weird place. So thank you for

putting words and adding a bit of perception there. I have a slight request. I've been on a spiritual journey for 10 days. I need, I'm looking for resources or people to reach out to. I've read a bunch of books. I've done meditation. I've tried to meet yoga teachers. I've done therapy. I'm looking for spiritual awareness. I don't know if you could back channel anything. Links, books. people I could talk to you. That would be incredible. What are you looking for spiritually? I have a bunch of puzzle pieces about my understanding and perspectives of the world. And I feel like I'm just, I haven't met people who have the ability to put my pieces that I have together. I don't know if that's a really general answer. I don't feel super comfortable sharing them on stream. Okay,

sure. So then this is what I would recommend. So it's hard for me to recommend something without understanding. I have an inclination, but I too am reluctant to share that on stream. Where are you guys? We're in Peru currently. You're in Peru. Okay. So I don't know if you all have watched the membership lectures on weird stuff and things like that. Right.

So I would say what you should do. I mean, that's where we do the weird stuff. So what I would do is I don't know if there's like if you feel comfortable posting in the membership community about where you are in your spiritual journey. If you're not, then things become challenging. Okay, let me think for a second. Okay. Let me ask you this. What if these pieces were put together, what would be different about you or what would you achieve? What does achievement or resolution look like for you? Can you share that? Yeah, I've felt pieces of resonance that have made me not feel insane, maybe. And I'm sort of just holding my hands out, I think, sort of trying to process a lot of the pieces. Okay. So this is the best that I can do. So I'm going to think about it. And I will teach a practice at some point for sure.

in probably in memberships because that's where I do most of the teaching of advanced practices, but I will think about what practice you need. And I will teach it to everybody and then you can do that. So, okay, pieces of resonance. I got you. It's cool. Like so, you know, sometimes I'm like, I don't know how to do this. So a great example is tech teller a couple years ago was like, hey, can you do?

Everyone wants to do like heart chakra. And I was like, I don't know heart chakra. I don't know that. It's not what I do. And then, yeah, I was like super stressed out like two or three days before I just sat down to meditate. And I was like, oh. And it wasn't me figuring. it out. So, so I'm going to just, it's helped me out before. So I'm going to ask for some help and then

I'll pass along what I get. Hashtag not a call. That's right. Yeah, I appreciate. Even the fact that I think I was able to throw out a few pieces and you've got me. Yeah, yeah. I'm looking for to it. Thank you so much. Okay. Take care. Thanks for joining us today. We're here to help you understand your mind and live a better life. If you enjoy the conversation, be sure to subscribe. Until next time, Take care of yourselves and each other. Car shopping this civic holiday weekend. Most car dealerships are closed and all you'll find are crickets. Not Performance Auto Group.

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