HealthyGamerGG - Talking with a Sex Addict

Episode Date: April 14, 2020

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I have, I would screen share my desktop, but I have Deep Rock Galactic as well. I just picked that up like a week ago. Yeah, Deep Rock Galactic is a lot of fun, man. Yeah. How are you, where, how are you handling COVID? Um, it's interesting because, like, I feel like I saw a lot of this, like, coming, not COVID specifically, but I just knew there was going to be some type of scenario that was going to be kind of like catastrophic. If that sounds weird, I kind of just, yeah, I've felt that way for a while.

while and so like when this finally happened I wasn't very surprised and I don't know I didn't it wasn't really any shock for me kind of like went along with it just fine I'm introverted as is so I don't have a problem with not leaving the house for extended periods of time so I don't sometimes know things that other people don't know I think I pick up on things that other people don't pick up on the clues are all there Just some people can't interpret them, I feel like. So you were feeling like you kind of had a sense that something was going to happen, and that was sort of based on logic interpretation of information and kind of subconscious processing?

I would mostly, without getting too political, I was just looking at the state of where we're going as a country. Got it. Yeah. And I was just like... So you're not like a seer? No. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's disappointing.

I mean, there is definitely like a vibe that I felt. but I definitely tied it to like logic and reasoning. Right. Why do you tie it to logic and reason? Why do I attach it to logic and reason? Why do you tie your vibes to logic and reason? Oh, no, I know what you're saying. You know, the chicken didn't come before the egg.

Usually, so I don't like to say that I justify the way I feel with logic. Sure. But, but the problem, I don't know. Okay, well, I could be wrong. We're getting, so maybe we can circle back to that. Yes. Yeah, so sometimes I think just, I'll kind of share one or two thoughts about that. I think we underestimate where are sources of knowledge, like where we get knowledge from.

Yeah, I feel like I'm aware of, like, being skeptical of where I'm pulling my information from. Because I'm very, I feel like I have a lot of like meta thinking that I've kind of like had for a very long time, which I don't know. It kind of ties into like anxiety and everything that I feel with people. But I just feel like I'm picking up a lot of information that a lot of other people don't in usual situations. Yeah. So I just think it's interesting that we default to assuming that we're picking up that information through things like senses or logic. We're actually that in and of itself is not logical. right that we attribute the sources of information to things like rationalization or subconscious

processing but like what is that how do we observe subconscious processing like we it's yeah and that's i feel like that's exactly what i was trying to say is that uh i can't i am very open to the idea of like where my thought being a seer sure right it's kind of interesting anyway so What are we talking about today, OIG? So, I know that the sex edition is probably going to be, like, a big thing on the hot list. Smoking marijuana, definitely want to touch on that. But, I don't know, there's a lot of different things that I have going off with me. Like what?

Like what? Um, um, um, basically I've been, like, depressed for, like, like the last, I'd say, at least three or four years. And everything is kind of tied together. I used to have a really good sense of self-worth. I feel like that got deteriorated over time from kind of going through these relationship cycles. Okay.

Every single time I went through like one of these little relationships and everything like that, it would kind of just fire out of control afterwards if there was like a breakup or whatever. I kind of noticed that I'm going through these patterns. What's the pattern? Get into a relationship. Invest emotionally, very deeply. After that's done, like, if we go our...

Invest emotionally. I'm very, very, like... I know it kind of sounds contradictory to say that I'm kind of a very emotional person. What's contradicted about that? Because usually with people who are like the, I feel like the stereotype for someone that's like very promiscuous or it could be interpreted as promiscuous could be like they're very callous. They don't care about people's connections or what they're doing to the people around them. I feel like I'm very, very focused on the consequences of my actions all the time. Sounds exhausting.

It is, and I can't really turn it off very well. What do you mean by focused on the consequences of your actions? Help us understand what kind of thoughts you have. So I feel like from a really early age, I saw the effects of like basically going through your life without analyzing or being aware of like the things you're doing to the people around you. I had like my father was kind of basically the model of like what I didn't want to become. How so? Well, okay, so my dad and my mom were never married. I'm from a military family.

So everyone is in the Navy. My mom was in the Navy, my dad was in the Navy, my stepdad was in the Navy, my stepdad was in the Navy. but anyway they basically met didn't you know didn't get married or anything like that my dad like got dishonorably discharged from the military for drugs

back then it was like he was on the hospital floors he was a nurse as well but I think he was like doing liquid cocaine but anyway blog story short he went through like rehab and everything like that and my mom got pregnant with me and then he left and did his own thing and it's kind of left us

you know, to our own devices over the years. And so I kind of just kind of wanted to make sure, like, I always took into account other people in my life. So I didn't want to become like him. And what is he like? So I would characterize my dad as being kind of scared of his emotions and probably a good ounce of like some toxic masculinity thrown in there. I feel like he's done a lot of the same mistakes that I've made in my life,

but like he was not aware enough to realize what he was doing. And so that now his life has kind of come back full circle, and these things that he's done in the past are kind of like starting to haunt him, I feel like. he's getting older and i think he's kind of realizing that so ogee you said that you didn't want to be like him what right about him did you not what i didn't want to not take into account other people's lives that i'm ruining like so like those lives did he ruin um he basically my mom's been like pretty scarred from it from like for she's still like you know like you can see certain things about people that change over time and like obviously i wasn't alive

to see the change, but, like, I know it's affected my mom very profoundly. And then, like... What has affected your mom very profoundly? What's its? Just, I feel his disregard for taking into account, like, other people's feelings, emotions... How did you do that? By just caring only about himself, being selfish, I don't know. What does that look like?

So you're giving me conclusions. Okay. You're saying, like, he didn't care about people's feelings, but I'm like, how do I know, like, what did he do? Right. Right. So, I mean, okay, so the relationship. My mom did everything from my dad, like, really took care of him when everyone else kind of abandoned him. And when was that?

What was going on in his life that everyone abandoned him? Basically getting dishonorably discharged from the military. It was pretty. pretty scandalous. Everyone that he was on the floor with that was in on them passing out drugs on the hospital floor basically went to like federal prison except for him. And I have suspicions that maybe, I don't know, that he didn't go to federal prison because he ran people out or something. Is that one of the things that you also don't want from him? You don't want to be a rat? Oh, I don't particularly. care about that facet of it.

And so after he was dishonorably discharged, how did he meet your mom? He'd known your mom already at that point? Yes, no, no, no. They were together while they were in the military, and they weren't married, but that happened. You're going to have to excuse me. Like, I'm really, like, jittery right now. I'm kind of like really, really nervous. I don't know if you can tell.

Yeah, we can tell. Help me understand why you feel nervous. What do you think is going on? Let's start with what you feel. Just, well. it's just a lot of pressure just the topic and just the whole thing is kind of yeah you help me understand what pressure you feel um I worry about talking this openly about these very intimate things in my life and I worry about it coming full circle um obviously I'm

not using my but like I'm a I am I am a nurse and so like I just you know my interactions with that the community is interesting. What are you afraid of? Losing my license or, you know, just appearing to be so dysfunctional in a way that, like, it could come and haunt me, essentially. I understand that you're afraid, and I'm wondering whether maybe the first thing that we should do is help you with that fear, right? Because I'm envisioning, I don't want you to be, like, like, keeping this fear at bay,

over the course of the next hour. Sure. Like, I just don't think, like, that sounds like it's painful to me, and I don't want you to suffer. Sure. And so is it okay if we try to kind of address that for a moment? Okay. So the first thing is, how would talking like this, how would this lead to losing your license?

Um, I don't know. As soon as marijuana gets involved, like, things are very, very in the gray area as far as, like, what can be done legally sure to people you know and so maybe we shouldn't talk about marijuana sure that's fine too would you would that how would that help your fear if at all well I still want to talk about things I think I'm just trying I'm getting comfortable as all it's just I think that as we go when I'll get more comfortable yeah yeah but dude I don't want you to lose your license because you came on stream like that would be a royal fuck up. Right. Now, so just context. Like, I'm at a point where I'm pretty much

a, I don't care anymore. So it's, I'm moving into a different career. Just that sounds really bad. I'm, I'm in actively a full-time student in college right now, just, uh, moving towards a different career. And that's for a different, there's like, yeah, there's a lot going on in my life. It's, there's a lot. So sounds like you're pretty overwhelmed and you're dealing with a lot. yeah is it too much um i would say so um what makes it feel like it's too much i feel like i can't get ahead i feel like every feel like i'm treading water and i'm going nowhere and i'm getting tired of treading water Not in the... I know how that sounds,

but, like, I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere. All of the... I just feel like all the advantage and disadvantages are weighted against me. Sure. I mean, the way I live right now is not ideal. I'm living in, like, a five... Not even a 500-square-foot, like,

studio apartment with my mom, and, like, my cat's dying. My cat's got cancer. And everything is just very hard right now. And like it sounds really bad, but like this COVID thing is just like I don't even like that. I don't even feel like that's even messing with me. Like I'm just dealing with all these other things that have gone on with my life. Like I lost, I don't know, I've lost a lot.

And this is like basically what a lot of my problems with sex and everything comes from is because once I get into these spirals, like, I get to a point where I just don't care to what I'm doing to the people around me. And then you become like your dad? Yes, and so there's a lot of self-loathing that goes with it. Because you're becoming the very thing that you don't want to be. Yes. You don't want to do what other people, what he did to you and your mom. Yes.

And you can't stop. Nope. You know, this is going to sound kind of really. but maybe I'm trying to cut the tension a little bit because I can see your suffering. I wonder what it feels like to become a vampire. What kind of vampire? Bram Stoker vampire or are we talking like Twilight Vampire? I wouldn't want to be a Twilight vampire.

I don't think anyone would want to be a Twilight vampire. No. But I mean, what I'm hearing you say, O.G., is that you can feel yourself becoming a monster. Yes. And you can't stop the transformation. Yeah, I really do, like, it sounds really weird, but I try my best to be the best person that I can be. And I feel because, I don't know, I feel like I'm working against that. And so, like, again, feeds into that self-loathing.

You're working against what? Being the best person? I'm working. Yes. Yeah. I don't. So what I'm seeing. Seeing from you, OG, is that, you know, I think you seem exhausted to me.

Yes. Yep. And you say you've been depressed for three or four years. I mean, I'm sure that a psychiatrist somewhere could diagnose you with depression, but what it feels like to me is that you've been fighting for a long time and you're just getting worn down. Yep. And it can be very, very hard to fight and struggle and get up every day and try to shift. shift the mountain of bullshit that your life has become. And what I'm envisioning is a guy who wakes up every day,

walks outside of his house or 500-foot studio apartment living with your mom. And outside your door is a gigantic mountain. And then you do your work for the day, which is pushing against the mountain. I'm trying to get it to move. And then after a day of pushing and pushing and pushing in the mountain not going anywhere,

you go back to your 500-foot studio apartment where you live with your mom and you go to bed and then you wake up the next day and then you walk outside and you start pushing against the mountain and it seems to it seems like an exercise and futility it seems like there are parts of you that say that you have to try you have to change you have to do better you have to do more and then you walk outside and there's just this fucking mountain sitting there and you know that you have to move it and so you start pushing and pushing and pushing but it doesn't go anywhere and you feel stuck and you feel like you're not making progress but you don't want to be the guy who gives up because your dad did that too yep and that's i feel like that's a big problem that i have is i can't

let go i can't let go of things it's really hard for me too what is it that you feel like you should let go what is it that you hold on to uh i feel like that you hold on to uh i feel like like sometimes like I feel like I need to be able to give up on things that I'm working on. Like, I wish that I could give. I know it sounds really cathartic like saying it out well, but I mean, I wish that I could give myself a break. But you know, I'm not quite sure how important this is, OG, but you make a lot of comments about how what, how the things you say sound a certain way. Have you noticed that? Yep. I did now. You've, pointed it out. I do notice it now.

Yeah. What do you think is up with that? Why would you need to tell us that what you're saying is not cathartic? Because that's basically what you're doing. I have this bad habit of always trying to be in other people's heads. Bad I understand. All the time. Okay, so that's fine. But why is it important for you to correct the perception that other people have? Yeah, I don't want to be seen. certain way. I feel like I'm very probably way too much in tuned with caring about what other people

think. Yeah. How do you want to be seen today? You know, I'm to the point where I don't want to focus on how I want to be seen. I just care about how I want to see me because that's, I feel like that's what matters. How do you see you? Exhausted. Yeah. Are you a bad person? Are you a monster? I wonder, like, it makes me think, like, with everything that's happened to me, that, like, I wonder if there's, like, a breaking point in every person. And it doesn't matter. It's just across the board. I wonder if there's breaking points in people, where it doesn't matter, like, there's a point at which everyone cracks. Are you broken?

Um, I don't know. I keep on breaking over and over again, so I don't know if there's a state. I don't know what's the original thing to get put back in together. Yeah, I mean, you're laughing about that, but that sounds fucking terrifying to me. Yeah. You know, what I'm hearing is a guy who's been broken time and time and time again to where, like, you know, the first time something breaks, you can take the pieces and you can kind of like fit them back together, right? Yep.

But what I'm hearing from you is that you've been shattered beyond all recognition. Like, literally, that's what you're saying. that you've been broken so much that we don't even know what you're supposed to be anymore um yeah maybe um sorry i let my sense of humor is a little off good i'm glad so that's how i one one bright point i've seen so far actually there are a lot of bright points about you but it's the one that the that's the easiest to pick out so tell us about the this whole cycle about relationships and getting into a relationship and investing emotionally? I think I just give my all.

That's it. Like, that's the best way I can describe it is I just, I feel almost like powerful when I'm in relationships because I feel like I could do anything that I was ever required to do to make things work. Like, and, like, for example, one of my relationships

I stopped what I was doing I dropped out of college well I didn't drop out of college long story short I had a really shifty living situation with my friends

but they blew our rent money on drugs and so we were getting evicted and so I was talking to this one girl and she said to come to Tennessee and that you know I can live with her and it would be great and that I can go to school over there. And so I dropped everything. I've sold like everything I could to fit everything in my car.

I went across the nation and try and make things work. And after like two and a half years of like toiling out in the sun doing manual labor to like make things work, it didn't work out. And it's ironic because I'm still in touch with that woman and the she, had the exact same thing happen to her or it's actively going on and so it's it's weird i don't what's the exact same thing um where you're in a relationship with someone where you love them and they could care less so i'm confused so so i i i we're in this really so like you said that last last i understood you moved across the country to be with her for tennessee y'all were together

for two and a half years. I didn't hear anything you were doing manual labor out in the sun. And I didn't hear anything about love, like one person loving and one person not caring. I mean, I loved her, and I was willing to work as hard as I could to make things work. But it's like a tug-of-war where someone's not pulling on the other side. If you don't have that tension, things just fall apart. like I put in this much effort you reciprocate you should at least match my effort

it was always like a black hole of me throwing emotional investment just into whatever you know it didn't go anywhere so why were you guys together for two and a half years then um well things were okay in the beginning

there was a point of which you know there was tension on that rope that metaphorical rope and uh you know she tried and I tried and, you know, things were fine. And as time went, like, to keep things short and brief, like, I'm very one political, I'm of one political mindset and she's of the other. And that caused a lot of friction. So, and then, yeah.

Okay. So the first thing is I don't think you necessarily need to keep things brief. Okay. Right? So, like, because let me just explain to you, for example, why I'm a little bit curious about the situation. Because on the one hand, you say that there's kind of this relationship of you throwing love into a black hole and not being reciprocated. And on the other hand, I'm hearing that, like, essentially the source of y'all's problems is a political disconnect.

Yeah, but there was a lot that happened beforehand. I'm like, I was very self-conscious about time. to go into a little bit deeper. So she had a really traumatic experience growing up. She, you know, she had basically got raped, and she imprinted a lot of the things. Like, she would have flashbacks, and then she would imprint essentially that trauma onto me.

So, like, that resulted in, like, that resulted in, like, like a whole bunch of number of weird wonky things having to be done and worked with in the relationship. Like what? Like basically we just didn't have sex anymore because she imprinted those experiences on to me. And like, I was like, okay, that's fine. We won't have sex anymore. But I was like that, I was so willing to keep the relationship like alive. And, you know, and I don't know the point of which.

which she stopped caring. But that's basically when things got really bad because once we broke up, I know I'm hopping around a lot. There's just so much. Towards the end, I was still in nursing school, and I had like six months left of nursing school. And she decided to still see other people

while we were still living together. So it was really hard. I, uh, I finished nursing school. I passed. I did my boards. Wow. But, um, that's impressive, man. It was, it was really hard.

Um, there was sexually active with the people she was seeing while you all were living together. Yes. And, like, that was the most frustrating thing about it because that scenario, like, frustrating in that, like, frustrating in that there, the thing that there, the thing that I can't stand the most is when, like, hypocrisy. And like I will hold myself to like a huge high standard to make sure that I am not a hypocrite in anything that I try to. Anyway. So yeah, like essentially she had told me that this experience in her life had affected her in such a way that she couldn't have sex with me anymore. And there was this disconnect in that she was seeing other people, A, in the house or whatever, and like, I'm still living there. And then B, like, it kind of just feels like, why would it be acceptable to see other people in this way when this is the dynamic that, like, I don't know.

I would, I feel that she isn't having sex with you and y'all are together and she's... Right. It was fucking awful. Sounds fucking awful. And, like, that went on for six months. I would be, like, on the phone with my best friend at the time. like day in day out just like in tears just like this is fucking terrible like um but i got out of it i think someone feels about themselves after an experience like that they feel like shit and

like i think that like um well i know personally that my self-worth was severely damaged from that experience and because it it calls into question for me like what I put up with and what I didn't have to put up with and that I didn't advocate for myself in a way to protect myself and I should have, oh gee, you're doing two things, right? One is that that hurts your self-work because I can imagine that you're kind of feeling like what's wrong with me. Right. Right.

Like why is this woman like who I'm giving so much into the relationship and she's not willing to have sex with me because of this made up trauma bullshit. And I'm hyper, I mean, I have no idea what was real or what wasn't or anything. I'm not saying that she wasn't. Right. But I can imagine that if I were in your shoes, I would feel like something about that is bullshit. Right. So I think you call it hypocrisy.

My mind formulates that as something that's quote unquote made up, which is unfair. But it's an emotional thought. It's not a rational one. Right. Like, I mean, it just sounds like bullshit. So you feel bad about yourself, right? So like what's wrong with you? And then you do something else,

which is that you beat yourself up for feeling bad about yourself. Right? There's a difference between self-loathing and lack of self-worth. Does that make sense? Yes. I feel like I have both going on though. You do have both going on. Yep.

Very good. Right? So in terms of your feeling overwhelmed. So, OG, let me just jump in for a second, okay? So first of all, I think you can get better. and I think that the mountain that you're trying to move, you're actually making forward progress. Like whether, I just don't think that you're able to perceive it right now.

So what I'm hearing is a guy who's actually incredibly resilient, incredibly strong, incredibly smart, and incredibly reflective. I'm hearing someone who, I'm talking to someone who I think is moral, who cares about other people, who wants to be a good person, and not out of selfishness, but genuinely, like, wants to be, like, good and successful and kind to other people, and wants to be, like, a force of, like, good and positivity in the people around him. Yes. And that's who you are.

Right? And I think some things are getting in the way of that. And our goal here is, like, so the tricky thing there is that it's hard to reconcile being that person with hating yourself. like that's that's the real rub is like there's some there's a part of you that feels like you're a piece of shit and hates yourself because of it and then there's a part of you that strives to be better and like wants to be a good person and actually you know goes bends over backward to accommodate people that you care about and really just a prolongs what sounds like in some situations like sort of toxic kind of things which we can think about right so so so in a our way, oh, gee, I think that you're somewhat responsible for your circumstances, which is sort of a double-edged sword. So I think a big problem that a lot of people have is that they don't, like, you know, you kind of say when you look outside, you said something about that

the advantages and disadvantages are stacked against you. So that sort of makes sense and can be comforting in some way because it's like not our fault. But it's also kind of like doesn't give us a road forward because then like what do we do about that right if life is just fucking you over then like you can't really do a whole lot about that but yeah go ahead um and so like that's a dynamic that i've been having to deal with it's like i i've so like to add to that stack of bullshit like i lost pretty much two of my best friends at the beginning of the year just to get, I don't know, that's like a whole other thing. How did you lose your best friend? How does one lose the best friend?

Essentially, like, they got into a friend group that didn't really care for me. And I've known these people for, like, one of them I knew for, I've known over for 15 years. And the other one, I've known him, but I wasn't friends with him until about like five years ago. I've known him for 15 years too. And, like, the reason why I feel like I'm very hyper concerned about what other people think of me is because I've, I lost two of my friends, essentially, to possibly, like, the circumstances that I'm in. And I can't, like, I don't feel like they understand or feel the, like, the weight of everything that's going on in my life. and all they see is a dude that fucking you know is staying with his mom and you know not going to go anywhere or you know that's a that's a real fear for me they abandoned you because you're a loser sure

that's yeah i mean i wouldn't put it so harshly but yeah yeah i mean that that embodies the idea perfectly though yeah i mean that's what i'm hearing you say you're just saying it in more words Yeah. So, oh, gee, I mean, I'm kind of noticing a pattern here. It sounds like people... Yeah, people suck my interactions with people. That's... Yeah. I usually feel like I have like an interaction where I'm giving a lot and never receiving. Yeah, so let's think about that for a second. Go ahead. Sorry. and that kind of ties into a lot I might be like assuming a lot but I'm positive that probably feeds into like

the behaviors I have around like sex what are some of those behaviors I'm trying to think of where to start so me being a person that's very very concentrated on like consequences of my actions I'm having to deal with feeling, like... What are the behaviors? Oh, it's just...

Okay. Actual verbs of what I'm basically going on is just like a... I'm using... Okay. I'm using four different dating apps. I'm actually technically five if you include... If you include Facebook's dating services. And I'm basically approaching it like a salesman approaches, like leads and sales.

using like a law of averages just to try and, you know, basically go through five different apps and go for a numbers game approach rather than actual and emotional. And what are you going for? What are you looking for? Anything. Anything. Something is better than nothing. It's basically what it comes down to. What are you getting? What am I getting? I'm getting interesting, like, interactions with people I would never normally. interact with, I'm getting sex. I'm getting, like an emotional, temporary, like an emotional band-aid, I feel like it's the best way to describe it. So what happens when you have sex? It's basically a different form of drug for me. My problems tend to just evaporate out of my head, and I don't think about those things anymore, and I'm kind of free for that time. And that's kind of the

reason why I smoke so much is that it puts me into like a mental state of which I don't feel burden anxiety or like the pain of like everything that's going on around me. Is that why you consider yourself addicted to sex? No, it's the frequency. It's the number of people and it gets very out of hand the worst things are for me in that given situation. So like the relationship cycles and everything that I go through, it gets particularly bad. Can you walk us through one of those? So how does that, what does that look like? So when I went to Tennessee and that didn't work out and, you know, shit was hitting the fan

and I was in nursing school and, like, everything was just, like, putting that downward force on me. Like, I had to just have some type of, like, escape. And so, again, I kind of- What were you escaping from? Everything. Um, okay. Uh, I felt like I just needed to be away from my situation.

So I'm going to pause for a second, okay? Sure. So I want you, I want to explain to you why you're trying to move mountains. So what are you, what are you running away from? Failure? No, no, no. Fuck. Don't try to be Freudian. I'm just asking you. I asked you like, what were you trying to get away from and what was your answer? Everything. Okay. How do you fix that? Fixing my circumstances. stances around me. No, I'm asking you, how do you fix everything? Oh. Let's say I come to you, O.G., and I'm your friend.

I'm the one best friend that didn't abandon you. I'm going to say, O.G, my life is falling apart. What do you say? I don't know. How can I help what's going on? Well, so what's going on is everything is going wrong. Yeah, it doesn't sound like you're very, yeah. You can help by fixing everything.

Can you help me fix everything? no I see what you're saying what am I saying that I need to if I want to make change in my life I need to approach it in a systematic way an organized way instead of just saying everything is wrong there there's no way to

solve everything I need to actually probably maybe have a plan of attack maybe sure so I think you're even you're moving way too fast buddy you're on the highway already so I'd say the first thing is like you're even moving one step ahead of where I am. So I think the first thing to understand is that like

if you're if everything it like so if we just listen to what you've said today, okay, your cat has cancer. You live in a studio apartment. You're addicted to sex. You're making a career change. So obviously something with nursing was not working out. Yeah, that was a whole other story too. Sure. Yeah. So so and what what you feel is overwhelmed, right? Because every dimension of your life, you're getting fucked like your friends are abandoning you your cat is dying um you know interesting that you chose to be a nurse with all this business with your father and and i don't even know what's going on there but yeah yeah everyone's nurses in my family yeah my stepdad my mom and my dad were all nurses so it's like i don't know it felt like can i keep talking yes yes sir i'd like you to just try to listen

if that's okay yeah so i think the issue here is that like when you look at your life i think it makes because you look at your life and you see a life where there's like good evidence that everything around you is kind of falling apart. But the challenge is that like everything is not something that you can fix. Right. So like I understand that you're talking about a plan of attack. We're not even there yet. Let's first understand that the reason that you can't move a mountain is because you've made a monolith of all of your problems. And so no wonder because like you wake up every day and your mind asks itself the question, okay, what's wrong? Because that's what our mind does. our mind tries to help us out.

And then your mind is like, well, everything is wrong. So there's the problem solving part of your mind that's like, okay, OG, what's wrong? And then OG says everything is wrong. And then the mind is like, okay, how do I fix that? And OG is like, I'm not sure. And then your mind doesn't know what to do. So then you're sitting with this like sense of, of like, impossibility of like fixing everything in your life. And then you end up coping.

Right. So when, when, anytime I see someone that has multiple addiction. behaviors. I don't think about addiction as the diagnosis. I think about it as a symptom. So in your case, what you're addicted to is avoidance. Right. So like whether you get that through a substance or a sexual relationship or video games or whatever or reading a warhammer book. And the other tricky thing here is that like there's a spectrum of something like when you when it's not that bad, we call it coping. And when it is bad, we call it addiction. but I think it's artificial that these things are binary.

It's like they're on a spectrum. So the question is like, what are you running away from? And when you say everything, like I don't think that's something you can fix. I think if you try to solve everything in your life and everything being wrong is the problem, you're going to feel this way for the rest of your life. It's an issue of conception of what your problems are. and I think at the core of it is anyway I'm going to pause for a second

so any thoughts about that? I would say that that when I said everything I feel like it's just the way it's describing my feelings I feel yes and like I don't rationalize it in my head as like I can't win

or that you know I'm not attacking my problems like I can do something about this problem like I don't look at it as one big giant I try not to so let me jump in for a second which is exactly why I think a plan of attack is not your problem so you're saying that if I'm if I feel like everything is the problem in my head I don't actually think everything is a problem I recognize that my cat is dying I don't have friends I'm making creator change because the interesting thing is that OG you actually seem very adaptive to me. Right?

So, like, I think you, the plan of attack is actually not where you're missing out. You're saying, you're assuming that I'm saying you need a plan of attack. No, I don't think you need a plan of attack because you've demonstrated. So you say, you kind of talk about this relationship where you moved across country, right, to be with this woman. You spent two and a half years with her. And then you described six months of a period of time where she's fucking other dudes and she won't, wouldn't fuck you for two and a half years.

And the troll part of me was like, how the fuck can you be? a sex addict if you're not having sex in relationship but you know I didn't say that right right and so I mean while that was going on like I was going on my little like to talk back about the behaviors if I had to like describe like what that was like it was like three days out of the week I saw three different women and I was just going through apps like it like an addict sure so so my point is that like this looks like a bad scenario right? Like everything that I just described seems like a bad scenario, but I actually think there's a lot of good stuff here. So let me hear, like this is, I know this is going to sound weird. But so the first thing is that you were in a situation where you took drastic changes and just didn't sit there. So you decided to like up and move and try to make something of your life. You moved across country. You know, you sold whatever you needed to. You took drastic steps. I think a lot of the people that watch Twitch and watch our stream wish they could do what you did. They feel stuck because they're the ones that don't ever move out.

They don't move across countries. They're talking to a girl, but they don't have the balls to actually try to make it work. So the first thing is that you're adaptive and you're willing to make change, which I think is a huge plus. The second thing is that you tried for two and a half years to make this relationship work. Like I know a lot of people that are like, I'm not going to get late. I'm done in six months. Right? Or even three weeks or three days.

I mean, I really did love her. That's like... So we'll get to that all that crap in a second. Go ahead. My point, though, is that, like, once again, you're... So this is a guy who's adaptive, willing to make drastic changes, willing to, like, it doesn't give up easily. Right? And then also, like, even though things are really, really bad, like, manages to finish nursing school, even though you're living with someone who won't fuck you and will fuck other dudes.

And you, like, you manage to not drop out. Like, what the fuck, man? That's amazing. I watch a lot of your other streams and like I don't remember your guest's name but like I really resonated with his situation and that like well I think you were talking about how like there's an inevitable feeling of that you're going to run into failure right and I'm kind of getting in there I procrastinate like sure we all do terrible terrible and I just feel like as I'm going further

in academia, like, I'm getting that reality check the further I go as in, if I don't change something about my behaviors, I will not be able to keep So my point, OG, about sharing all these positive things is I think you actually demonstrate through your history

that you're pretty good at developing a plan of attack. That's not where your problem is. So I don't think your solution is to get better at a plan of attack, because I just think, just take any one thing. Let's just take the one thing about moving to Tennessee. You wake up one day and you realize that your drug addict roommates have used all your rent money for drugs and you're being evicted. I would just fall apart and roll around on the ground outside for about a few days before I even

know what to do. And you start plan of attack. I can't take all this stuff to Tennessee. Where am I going to go? What are my options? Okay, Tennessee. There's something there that I could make work. I can make life into lemons into lemonade, right? And then you're like, I can't take all my shit because I only have a car, so I have to sell some shit. It's not leaving on the side of the road, it's actually sell it. So you made a little bit of money, you sold some stuff. Like there are all kinds of problems.

And then you move across country, you move in with her. She has trauma. Okay, plan of attack. How are we going to do that? We're going to be a good boyfriend. We love her. We're going to support her. We're not going to pressure her into sex.

We're going to try to make this work. Plan of attack. All right. Now we're breaking up. There's something going on. She used to be emotionally invested in the relationship. There's no more tension in the rope. She's not emotionally invested in the relationship.

Things are not working out. We're going to break up. You guys break up. Okay, now she's fucking other dudes. Plan of attack. What am I going to do? I'm going to fuck other chicks. Right?

Plan of attack is not your problem. Your problem is not that like this is a monolith that needs to be broken down. Actually, that's your problem. Is that you need to change the perception that everything is wrong in your life. Because it is the perception. that everything is wrong in your life that is making you feel overwhelmed because you're actually really good at managing problems that's the bizarre thing you actually have a bizarre amount of forward momentum and change and adaptation in your life i know it doesn't feel that way to you but like

it's which is fair so my point is that like this needs to start with your feelings not with your attack not with your actions you don't need to be doing things differently. You need to be feeling things differently. Because you're actually, it sounds like you're, you manage, you just manage really, really well, man. So, so like, and now we get to, like, where do these feelings come from, right? So we can talk about, you know, the sex addictive behaviors, and I'm sure that that may be titillating. But in my mind, like, I don't, I don't know that, like, diving down into the way in which you, like, are, are, you know, on five dating apps. Like, I'm sure there's, that's, that's worthwhile to talk about. But I don't think that, like, like,

spending an hour talking about the way in which you use dating apps is going to help you. Yeah. Right? So like if we're really here, so now we have a fork in the road, which is like, do we want to satisfy the voyeurism of Twitch chat? And, you know, like, do we have a conversation about like, how do you get laid? Because people like, how the fuck, I wish I was on five dating apps. All right. All right.

Listen up to it. Right. So that's absolutely a conversation. that we can have. But, I mean, I think at the end of the day, I try to do live streaming as if I'm having a conversation with one person, and I try to help that person. And so my biggest question for you, OG,

is how many people have told you or have demonstrated to you that you're not good enough? Ooh, that one hurts. A lot. A lot. I don't know. That feeling would definitely drive deep in probably feeling like, the way I do about my dad is definitely like I wasn't good enough to, you know, have those types

of like father-son interactions or to have enough like investment into my life that, you know. So if you're not, I want you, I want to ask you something. When your ex-girlfriend, when you started to feel like you weren't good enough for her, how hard did you try? Oh my fuck. Oh, shit. no I like we tried very hard I don't know how to and so so how how overwhelmed so the the harder you tried if I were to draw a graph where the x-axis is trying hard and the y-axis

sorry the x-axis is let me think about this so let me just ask the question in a different way the more that you feel you felt like inadequate or that you weren't good enough you tried harder right yeah and and when you were trying really really hard how overwhelmed did you feel uh i felt like i was always like pushing against a wall all the time right so like this is going to sound really bizarre and i hope this makes sense your problem o g is that you're pushing against a wall and that's futile. And so I want you to just think about this. The problem isn't that you're unable,

like the problem isn't that you're weak. The problem is that you're pushing against something that is immovable. Your solution is not to like get stronger so you can push the mountain. The solution is to stop trying to push a mountain. Like I don't know if you know how to translate that into your actual life, but do you see what I'm saying? You're setting up a situation where futility, is the only result.

Let's just think about this. So you feel like you're not good enough, so you try extra hard. And the harder you try, the more overwhelmed you feel and the more powerless you feel. The funny thing is that that feeling,

like you wouldn't feel overwhelmed or powerless if you weren't pushing. Does that make sense? Like there's a futility, like just think about this. The harder you try, you're like giving everything and you're giving everything

and you're giving everything and nothing is worth. and nothing is working and nothing is working and everything is wrong in your life and there's nothing you can do and you wake up every day and it's just a slog and you can't take it anymore you've been doing this for years and you've been trying and trying and trying and all of your effort is futile you're worthless it's a whole big mess of worthlessness and it starts with you trying because just imagine this for a second if you didn't try then are your actions futile I see what do you see explain it to us um i think what you're talking about is that if i set an expectation of win or fail if i don't have expectations of winning or failing and trying is kind of like implied into you know conquering whatever it is that i'm trying to um approach um but if i get rid of the expectation, then there is no, there is no struggle. That's not exactly where I was going from it. I think this is a, this is a problem of you watching too much of our content.

It's a little bit of a joke, so I'm glad you've learned a lot. Yeah. Thank you, by the way. I'm going to try to, I'm going to try to like actually mold it a little bit more. What I, what I want you to understand is that you were setting up a problem for yourself that you cannot win, right? Sure. And so like this is what, this is what exhausts, frustrates and makes people want to give up is you set yourself up against an unsolvable problem and then you try a lot and then you like feel like a failure over and over again even though like the game is fucking rigged the problem is that not that life sets advantages and disadvantages against you that are like against you it's that you're setting you're setting yourself up for absolute

failure and and the problem is that when you set yourself up for absolute failure you give forth absolute effort and you love 110% and you try 110% and you put up with all kinds of shit that is really like unreasonable to put up with whether it's like yeah I mean I don't even get me started there there's all kinds of weird signs that

like there's just like there's a pattern of like people fucking you over right yes the thing is like I don't think you're that dumb I think it's because you set yourself up for people fucking you over because you give in too much into the relationship when you should say, I shouldn't try to push against this wall anymore.

You try to make her love you when like that's not something you can do. Right. Right? I learned that. Yes. But I don't think you did. So like you learned, actually what you learned

is that you can't make her love you, but you're sure as hell going to try the next person. And you're sure as hell going to try the next person. And you've been learning this lesson over and over and over again with individual people, but you haven't learned it in general. Because you tried to get your two best friends to love you. You tried to get this girl to love you, and you tried to get your dad to love you. And the reason that you try is because you're trying to get everyone to love you.

Because at the core of it, you feel like you're unlovable. And this is the thing is that has to come out root and stem. Right. And I feel like a lot of it is like I can't love myself. And like that's something I'm really trying hard to do is like have compassion for myself. Yep. There's the self-loathing. Right.

So like not only you're unlovable, you beat yourself up for being unlovable. And all of these behaviors, like do you see the patterns of trying, like putting yourself in situations where people essentially take advantage of you? And then you're like, oh, fuck that. I'm not going to let these people take. advantage of me, you move across country and you let someone else take advantage of you. And then you're like, fuck that, I'm done with that, now you're over here, and then you let someone else take advantage of you. This pattern is actually of your own making. I don't think you're that unlucky. Like this is not random chance. Like when we see this pattern over and over and over

again, I think you're creating it. Yeah, and I was, I feel like I was like I couldn't quite, I don't know. It's like I felt like I was responsible for a lot of, like, I was like, this can't just be a me thing or are them thing i should say i'm definitely a part of this problem and i just i need to figure out what exactly so now the question like so now like what i really want you to tunnel down is i think there are going to be some cases where if we tunnel down i would make this prediction that there are some moments where you feel unloved and someone is mistreating you and in that moment instead of acknowledging their mistreatment what you do is is you try to make them love you by, like, giving more.

Yep. Because the thought of being unlovable is so intolerable to you because you've been hurt this way over and over and over again, that, like, that becomes the spot that you try to protect. And this isn't, you're going to say something? No, no. I'm going to keep going. Just feel it's just feelings. It's cool.

Yeah. So, like, I want you guys to understand this. Like, if you have a weak point, right, let's say I take an arrow to the knee, and then like the next day I take an arrow to the knee and the next day that I take an arrow to the knee what happens is I start protecting myself like I'm going to put like armor over my knee because like that's where I keep on getting hit right

makes sense the problem is that the way that you try to protect yourself from feeling unloved is to put yourself in situations that are untenable and will make you eventually feel rejected it's like you're putting on armor that has a bull's eye on it. Like you're creating these patterns where you're essentially letting people abuse you

like over and over and over again. Like you're creating abusive relationships for yourself. You're creating situations of abandonment where you over invest. Because instead, like the problem here, what I'm telling you, oh, gee, is the problem is not trying hard enough or not being strong enough. It's trying too hard. It's pushing against a wall that you can't move. I, yes.

And like what a thing that I'm afraid of too is that I worry about what happens when I turn that engine off. Beautiful. That's your fucking problem. That's exactly what you need to do. You need to face that fear. You need to accept that there's a possibility that people may not love you. Instead of trying to control them and make them love you, you have to accept that maybe they don't. And this is the fucking paradox thing.

This is why Zen is so paradoxical. When you start doing that, people will start loving you. When you accept that people may not love you and that you can't make them love you, when you let go of that control and you let go of that paranoia, you're also going to stop tolerating the abuse of behavior. Because you're going to say to yourself, okay, this person is not treating me right. I can't make them treat me right. They don't love me, so be it.

therefore I don't have to double down and invest twice as much in the relationship. Oh, like I'm pushing against this wall and it's not moving because it's attached to a bank. And the bank is 500,000 square feet and it's made of brick and cement and I can't push it. Oh, maybe I should stop. But that's not what you do because like when you feel the resistance of someone not loving you when that feeling of not being loved arises within you, you push one. harder and harder and harder and harder and harder and harder and harder and it doesn't cause the mountain to move and it just leaves you exhausted. I think you figured me out, Dr. Kay. What does that do

for you though? I figured you out. Fantastic. I'm going to go have lunch now. Go fuck yourself. And like the problem I feel like I feel like I come to like very similar conclusions. I feel like yours is your conclusion is super eloquent and like how it encompasses everything. It's just I'm like, I'll get to the point we're like, okay, like the problem is coming from me. How do I stop this? How do I, like, how do I do it? Exactly. Yes. So how do you do with this, man? What do you think? It's hard. I have to be like willing to let go of a lot. How do you be willing to let go? I'm going to help you. Don't worry. My point is that everything up until this point is worthless without the next step. You get that? Like, I have not helped you

1%. Like, helping you is going to be binary today. We can go 99% of the road, but unless we can help you with the next step, this doesn't help at all. You with me? Like, showing you what your problem is, like, sure, good diagnosis precedes good treatment, but like good diagnosis with no treatment is worthless. So there are two solutions, okay? The first thing is I want you to recognize this as it's happening and stop pushing. There are going to be moments, and I don't even, I'm not, I'm not even saying they're going to be moments. Who, because I just don't accept this for a second. Who in your life right now are you trying to win over? Actually, maybe not COVID. I'm trying to win over myself. Okay. I'm, I don't know. I'm trying, I'm really trying not to, like, personally, my, my goal,

Well, my challenge right now that I'm trying to work through is just trying to be independent. Because I've, you've kind of tapped into like a lot of my codependency issues that I've had throughout. Yes. And my thing is I just want to be independent. I don't like it. So I'm trying to be independent. How do you try? So what do we do?

What's our solution to that? In that regard, I need some source of like love. that it's not coming from external sources. Incorrect. No? So remember, the goal here is to stop trying, right? Yes. So you're trying to be independent, so what should you do?

Not care about being independent? Absolutely. You should accept that you're not ready to be independent. And being independent means not relying on external sources of love. So what should you do? Not care. Incorrect. you should care

you should rely on external sources of love whatever direction you're going in your head right now you need to move in the opposite direction okay yeah because this is can I just get one thing that I feel so like I have a problem like the reason I feel like another thing that

ties in myself loathing into this whole little cycle too is like A the stigma of everything I'm doing but B um sorry I lost my thought that's okay if it's important it'll come back

sure continue though I'll come back I'll remember it okay so like this is exactly my point right so like you're trying to be independent and how many times have you told yourself that uh like every day like when are we going to like everything it's kind of like a little bit of like avoidance right now

yeah so when did you start telling yourself that you need to be independent as soon as my mom probably got into the apartment that was incorrect No. Well, this has been going on. I'm feeling predominantly that way right now. I understand that. Yeah. You're telling me that when you were growing up, you didn't have thoughts that I need to get on, I need to get by without my dad. Because he's not. No, I didn't. No. Really? You're right. I didn't feel that way. As in I felt like I had to win him over. As in like, I didn't think of how do I go about my life without this thing. I, went about my life thinking how can I get this thing? And you also didn't have the...

I'm a little bit surprised. That actually means I'm wrong, but... So, but you didn't eventually conclude that, like, you need to get on without your dad, like, he's not going to show up and that you need independence? I have done a really good job of just, like, out of sight, out of mind with my dad for a lot of years now. Because there was a point where he is going to be who he is and whatever. Right. So that speaks to me of independence. Okay.

Right? So like at some point you gave up on him and you decided like it seems to me like you learned how to be independent and you had to become independent because he wasn't fucking around. Like he wasn't around. Right. Yeah. Anyway. So I mean, I think ultimately that's not, you know, I so I have like my sense, OG is that all this crap is related. So your desire for your independence, your tendency to be. codependent, your hunger for people to love you has to relate to this like general idea. Like why do people need to feel loved by other people? Why do you need to make other people love you?

Go ahead. You have a thought? Yes, I remembered what I was going to say. So like the stigma was A and then B is just like the way it makes me feel, um, knowing that I have to approach something external and it can't come from within me. Like everything like these, these drugs. like sex and everything like that. In order to make myself feel happy or content,

I have to approach something external. And it can't come within myself. This is going to be really confusing, but like that is what you need to accept. Because I know this is going to sound really fucking weird, but I want you to really run with me for a second, okay? Okay. When you try to make someone love you who is in control.

They are. Incorrect. No? Okay, go on. I'm going to ask. Ask the question again. When you're trying to make someone love you, who is the agent that has power?

Where is the action? It's in my desire to want to make it happen. So it's going to me. Yeah, it's not even your desire. You're exerting effort on another human being to make them love you. Right? Do you like see how that,

if I'm trying to make something happen, I'm the one who's exerting the power. You presume that you have the control to make someone live you, otherwise you wouldn't fucking do it. You actually have the control. They don't have the control. What you're terrified of is giving them the capacity to not love you.

Do you see that? The control is actually in your hands, not in theirs. And that's why it's so fucking frustrating. Because the control isn't actually in your hands, but in your mind, that's what you're trying to do. Like, just think about it for a second. I'm trying to make someone love me. I can't do that. But even I'm trying to make, that implies that, like, I'm trying to make a chair.

I'm trying to make a bowl of noodles. I'm trying to make a life for myself. I'm trying to make a light that turns on. Like, who's in control in all of those statements? So this is me fighting against that metaphorical wall again, yes? Absolutely. But the thing here is that what you need to do is stop trying to be independent. Stop trying to control other people because that's still you.

That's you being independent. Because you're not actually in a relationship with another human being who has thoughts and feelings. have all of the relationship that you're bearing on your shoulders. You're pulling the rope entirely. There's no tension on the other side because you're owning all of that responsibility. You're taking all of that responsibility and you're trying to make them love you and you're pushing, pushing, pulling, pulling, pulling, so much love into the void. Do you see that? It's all one-sided. Everything about this is one-sided. With me? Okay. When I push against the wall,

does the wall push back? I like my physics, but But yes, I see what you're saying. No, it does not. In your scenario, it's mostly just me exerting effort. The walls just being there. Yeah. And actually, if you want to go like really five head, you throw in physics. Because you're right that whatever you throw in, no matter how hard you try, what is the result?

You stay the same. Because this ex-girlfriend exerts an equal and opposite force to make sure that the relationship doesn't move forward. Right. So you're actually right. both cases are true. Now we see why your life is futile because you set up this like weird you know psychophysics experiment

where you're exerting a lot of futility because you're trying to control everything. You are living in a world where there is, your assumption is that there is not an equal and opposite reaction. I am making her love me. There's no agency on her end

because you can't surrender the fact that people may not be able to love you. once you surrender that people may not be able to love you, and furthermore that you're not an island unto yourself, that you can't be independent right now, and that, like, I hate to break it to you, buddy, but what you need is love. Like, you get that?

Like, you need someone to love you in the way that you love them. Yeah, that's the way it feels, essentially. Yeah. And so, like, don't ignore your feelings and say, like, just think about this for a second. You're hungry and thirsty for love. you've been hungry and thirsty for love theoretically your entire life right

and every time someone doesn't love you it hurts and so you go and you like the way to take someone who's hungry and thirsty is we don't tell them you need to be independent of hunger and thirst like that doesn't fucking work man right you need to be loved

in the way that you're going to get loved is by recognizing that you can't make someone love you and then you've got to roll the dice. And I can almost guarantee you that for patterns as baked in as yours are, there's someone right now in your life that you are trying to win over. And you do it every moment when you think about how other people perceive you. Because in that moment, you're not letting, you're not even letting us judge you.

You're saying like, oh, this like statement, I know it sounds cathartic, but it's not. You're trying to control our perception even now. Let us think whatever the fuck we want about you. Let us see you for who you are and be, let yourself be free from the possibility that we think you're an awful person or that you're idiotic. Free yourself, but we think you're a dumbass. Twitch hat thinks you're a dumbass. So what?

Let go of trying to control other people's perceptions. Let go of trying to make other people love you. And once you do that, you're going to stop investing your energy into a futile problem. and if you're not investing your energy in a futile problem, lo and behold, you may start investing it in things that can actually start to bear fruit and then like, oh, what the fuck? We're actually like not treading water

because we're moving in a direction. The energy investment of triding water and moving in a direction is basically the same. The problem is that like you're in the ocean and you found an island and you're pushing against it instead of like actually moving somewhere else or like getting out of the water. The analogy is falling apart at this point.

I understand, though. So very concretely, I want you to think about your relationships and notice within yourself, like, when do I feel unloved? That's what you have to tap into. Yeah, it hits me really quickly because I'm always a big proponent of, you know, actions speak more than words. And, like, that's the first thing I look at is, like, are they behaving in a way that shows affection?

Okay. Now, let me just see. Okay, we got it. Okay. So, okay, yeah. So now we see like why you have relationship cycles. Right? Because like you come in and like when you perceive an action that's an insult to your like self-worth,

you have to emotionally invest to like balance that. I don't know if that makes sense. But like someone does something. like they don't return a text, and then you feel unloved, and then the cycle begins, and then you have to invest more in the relationship, because you have to get them to love you. And then they don't return another text, and then you have to get them to love you even more. Do you see that? Like, that's the trigger.

The biggest thing is that you have to acknowledge, like, when they don't return the text, you have to catch it then and there, that sometimes people just don't return texts. And it's not because, like, there's something wrong with you, but the problem is that you have been hit it like you have been hurt so many times that your fear that you're unlovable starts to see things in the shadows that are not there right it's like walking outside when it's dark outside and seeing a rope on the ground and thinking it's a snake it's an analogy that's from an irovedic textbook that doesn't really translate here because we don't have snakes in america but and we do but it's like yeah not not in Boston yeah um but I see so let me just be very very

concrete okay so the first thing is for you to recognize the feeling of being unloved and then recognize that that feeling of being unloved is going to push you to engage in certain behaviors and you have to isolate those you have to see what they those are and then the third thing is to recognize that the stuff going feeding into the feeling of being unloved may be incorrect. This is a cognitive bias. Right? Sometimes people just don't return text. It doesn't mean that they don't think you're a good person. Yes. Yeah. I feel like I, especially with the example of texting, I feel like I, you know, I'll feel the emotion and I feel like I'm very good about catching those already. Because I'll rationalize it down and I'll address it with logic. Like no, no, no, you know, people are busy. They have things going on their lives that you are not the center of their universe.

You know, they have, you know, who are you to them? Whatever. You know, like. Oh, you were doing great until that last sentence. Who are you to them? Yes. You're unlovable to them. You're not worth it to them.

See? You are not the center of their universe. You were doing great. Everything was rational until that unlovable sumscar popped up and said, you are not worth their time. You see how that happened? I hope you guys caught it on. on Twitter chat.

First couple things were rational. Third thought was a sum scar. This shit is subtle and it's deep, my friend. You're doing very good, but it's still trickier. It's trickier than you are. I try it really hard to catch it though. Good. And so you should keep trying because it's good. You caught the first couple.

But I'm not supposed to try. Exactly. Now we get to the next thing, right? Which is when you don't actually, so when you rationalize it, you don't actually deal with it emotionally. the question that you need to ask yourself is sure you can rationalize they don't have you know they can't be around all the time but what does it feel like to not be a priority for them

and sit with that feeling because then like then you throw yourself a pity party and like don't do that like it's okay to like not be someone's priority can I sit with that feeling can I sit with the feeling that I don't feel like a priority to them and I don't want that to change my action I actually don't want to try

I don't want to try to protect myself from that hurt because that's one option, right? I'm never going to text them again. Fuck it. Or I'm going to try to get them to love me more. Like, don't do anything. Just sit. You need to not do anything.

Notice those feelings of rejection and just sit with them for a while, and it's going to feel bad. It's like, you ever cleaned out a garbage disposal? Oh, yeah, it's pretty mucky. Yep. So, like, you know the feeling when you first put your hand into the garbage disposal?

where you like almost gag yeah and then like what happens the few seconds after that you're like my hands already wet might as well go the entire yeah we're right so like the first three seconds of putting your hand

into a garbage disposal or the worst part and then once you're in the filth then you're fine you get what I'm saying yes so you need to put your hand in the garb I mean obviously not why it's all on or anything right but like you need to sit in the filth which you're not ready

to do and what you'll realize is like sure it's mucky but like after time it's not going to be that bad. Right. And acknowledge that you're unlovable and acknowledge that you can't be independent and acknowledge that in order for you to be healed, you need to be loved. And then the most terrifying thought is that that's not something that you can guarantee and understand that for the rest of your life there's a chance that when you die, you will still be broken. And if you can do that, then you'll start to move forward. It's really hard for me to like, quit or like not even quit like it's hard for me to give up on things like yes it's really hard like i um i teach martial arts on the side um i run a judo program at a university here and like there's

so much there's there's so many times where i'll just teach hurt like i'll be hurt like i have a grade two spraying in my left ankle right now and i'll still teach on it i haven't teach taught recently because they closed down all the classes and everything like that because of COVID. But like, I'm always, I don't know, it's really hard. There's the trying again. Yep. So now beautifully said, so OG, I don't know exactly what this is going to look like for you, but I think what you should do is notice those things about yourself where you don't want to

give up and then try to give up. Or if you can't give up, then give up on giving up. And at least accept, don't try, but say like, oh, fuck it. this is not going to work. Like I'm a dumbass and I'm going to teach on this messed up ankle because I'm so attached to this that I'm not willing, like my pride is so big that I'm not willing to like, look, feel ashamed in front of people because I have an injury

because I'm the teacher and I'm supposed to be invincible. That's this complex in my head and it's too big of a bull for me to restrain. You can do that too. Or you can actually sit out your judo class if you're injured. those are the reps that you need to do you need to start by giving up little little little things and it's good that you notice that that's beautiful so now you just like make yourself as best as you can

not teach that judo class and then give up something else and then give up something else and then give up something else until you ain't doing shit until you become what Twitch chat is just sitting around doing nothing all day instead of being this try hard fucker that you are you see Twitter

Trying hard doesn't pay. You guys have the winning strategy. The really sad and ironic thing is that Twitch hat tries really hard too. That's their problem. Is they try so, so hard, and then they feel overwhelmed and exhausted. Because you're trying so hard, man, and it's just not working. Anyway, thoughts or questions before we wrap up? No.

Thank you very much for having me on. I really appreciated it. I really loved your insight into what's going on in my life. So can you recap for us, OG, what you understood about our conversation today or what you think was relevant or helpful? Walk us through as much as you can. So understanding, I think a big thing that we talked about was understanding what is futile. Because in my life, like, I am approaching it in such a way where I'm becoming the problem because I'm not accepting. that giving up is acceptable to me.

And I'd like dealing with feeling these emotions of not being lovable. And then how to like going like the relationship between being unlovable and like the freedom that it brings of like accepting that you can go through your life and be unlovable. but at the same time, like, it frees you from the burden of trying and failing and trying and failing and avoiding those cycles. Also, what else? We went over essentially at, like, those cycles in depth of, like, what's going on,

understanding that, you know, someone's not going to pitch into the pot with their emotional investment if you're doing all the work. If you're... If you're going to just put 50% in, and if they put 50% in, that seems pretty nice. Yeah. So that's actually next level shit.

So now, like, I want you to really think about this other relationship, right? This two and a half year relationship. Yep. I think the biggest problem with that relationship is that you let her get away with giving less than 50%. Because you wanted the relationship to work so hard that you gave 100%. And thereby you let her. off the hook. If you want to feel

loved and if you want a relationship to work out you can't do all of the work. You just can't, right? You've got to let her do her part. The problem is that if you let her do her part you're seeding control that she may not do it and then the relationship could fail and you're seeding control.

You see that? Yes. And it's always weird because I always feel like I'm never in control. And so thus I'm fighting against those invisible walls again. trying to gain back that sense of powerlessness. Yes. So you've got to let yourself be powerless.

Yeah. It's, I don't know. There's so much other things that, like, have contributed to, like, me being where I am. Absolutely. Yeah. And, like. The good news, OG, is that when people have problems that are everything, it's been my overwhelming experience that if you can, you know, grab this one thing,

that a lot of things in your life will come tumbling down in terms of barriers. I've seen that. Yeah. But beautifully put. Yeah. My whole thing is like if I'm to give up, I just want to be able to do it with grace.

I don't know. But that's probably like ties into caring what other people think. Beautiful. See, now you're getting there. You have to give up, giving up with grace. You have to fail like a dumbass.

You have to let yourself fail like a dumbass. You see, like how ingrained it is every thought that you have this attachment is right behind it it's recursive man it's like inception you can go as many layers as you want to and like it's always going to be there i want to give up with grace i want to fail magnificently right because that yeah it's the implications there it's just underneath the surface absolutely yeah that's how deep good it is good yeah I hope you can talk that. Yeah, I say things out loud, and then I'll be like, oh, I didn't know I felt that way.

Oh, that makes sense, you know. Good. That's good. So the other thing that you can think about doing, I don't know if you've seen a therapist, but you should maybe see a therapist and talk about your dad. Yeah. That's another thing that I'm dealing with, too, is just, like, not having medical insurance. It's crazy.

But the university offers a not free. Well, it is now, but it's like co-pays like 15 bucks is nothing. Sure. For individual visits. But, yep, we've been, I've already made progress, though, doing that. Yeah. But I could focus on that next time. So other thoughts?

O.G., I thought that was a beautiful summary, but if I, I mean, I jumped in there, so I didn't. Oh, no. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you should play Final Fantasy 7. Okay. It's really, really good. Like, they've done a wonderful job.

You can tell, like, that's something that I really, like, care about nowadays. It's, like, actually seeing effort in video games. Like, you can actually see the effort. Same. You're like, oh, there was passionate developers that went into this game, and you can see, like, how passionate they were. You can see that in Final Fantasy VII. It's not just formulaic, soulless cobbled together.

No. It works by the gaming executives, but a game that was made by gamers. I'm with you, dude. For sure, yeah. You got like a bad corporate takeover with video games. It's pretty terrible. But no, the game's wonderful. I think you'll really like it.

If you play Deep Rock Galactic, that's a really fun one too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool, man. Thanks for the recommendation. And good luck. Yeah. We're rooting for you.

Yes, sir. Thank you again for having me on. I really do appreciate it. Oh, actually, hold on a second. Let me think about meditation. Let's do meditation. I keep on together. What kind of meditation is going to?

Oh, can I ask you? you real quick so with Ayurveda so I tried taking like a lot of the the dosha quizzes and everything like that I can't really find like a really good one because I get like mixed results but like half the time I come up really strong on like Vata and then other times I come up like predominantly not Pita kha yes so I don't know because I've got that kafa the ones I've been looking at lately it's been kaffa Vata

yeah so do you remember have you seen like any of the stuff that we've done on Iroveda did you watch the webinar one I've watched a part of that I think I've watched a part of that I think I might have watched that one yeah so like if you guys watch that part of the anyway what's your question what would be a good way to like tailor

like because like my big thing I'm ADHD too so it's like organization is really important for me and I was like, I've noticed there's some things that are like, oh, that fits perfectly with me and like, you know, with these, you know, the dosha and everything like that. Other side. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm like for context. I'm sitting down, but I'm like a, I know that they bring in a lot of like body type like characteristics into. I'm like six foot three.

Yep. And like two. Yeah. But I'm kind of lanky at the same time. Yep. Yeah. So like for those of you all watching it, anyway, so what's your question? And then before I, I just, what would what would you recommend as far as like,

because like there's different diets that they recommend? I don't know. Like I'm trying to look for like a template of like how I can kind of organize myself. Yeah, very good. So let's start by understanding what your dosha. So you have a very round face and a very sharp nose. Right? So you're kind of like a Vataka, which like I haven't done a great job in explaining Vatakha,

because I kind of make them out to be opposites, but they're not. They're just three different axes, right? Right. So you also have a very, very classic story for Avata Kafa, which is that you stay in relationships in bad situations for longer than you need to. That's your kaffiness. That's the downside of resilience. Other people would have left that relationship way earlier than two and a half years,

but you have the staying power to push against that mountain for way longer than other people do. and we see the vateness because you're not in a relationship for 10 years, but you have frequent cycles of the same thing. So you have fluctuation of like you find yourself in bad situations very, very often, and in different bad situations very, very often. So we hear that from your like story, right? Like roommates and then this girl and then friends who abandoned you and then switching careers and then becoming a nurse

and then like not become like now you're in school again. That's a whole other story with but you're not you're not full Vata because you actually complete your nursing degree. You're going to finish school. Like you see the difference? Like this is Vata and Khafa. There's a lot of career changes, but they're not half finished career changes like Vattas are. And people may think that, oh, at least getting a nursing degree is better than not

finishing a nursing degree to which I would ask you like remember that it's not really better or worse. It's just like, is it better to fully finish a nursing degree if you're not going to be a nurse? Or better to abandon it halfway. Yeah. Right? So in terms of what to do for Vataka, I'd say eat warm foods of like medium moisture.

Make sure your bowel movements are somewhat regular. Make sure you're not constipated. And you want them to be a little bit, yeah. So like warm foods is the most important things. You want to eat things that are sour. So sour fruits are going to be very good for you. Okay. Yeah.

I eat a lot of mango as is. I kind of just naturally do it. So mango, so actually you should do citrus instead of mango. So mango is kind of creamy. Okay. Right? So like you want foods that are a little bit lighter than that. So mango actually increases guffa because it's like thick and creamy.

Pudding, mango, avocado, these are fruits like so pomegranate, citrus, those are better tart fruits for you. Okay. Berries. Also good. I mean, mango is good for you. Irovedo would say you can get a little bit of mileage. Yeah. There's, yeah.

Mango and marijuana go together, though. Yeah. Okay. So great question. And then I mean, I need to do like more Ayurvedic stuff about what you guys should do if you have two body types. I love it because it's just like I'm from the western side of like the spectrum and how we like look at medicine. And then I see the Eastern kind of like take on it. And it's not that like I feel like, oh, this is very weird and abstract.

and it's not true, I just feel like they have a different context of like realizing things that like Western medicine won't because they can't make the same leaps and bounds. Yeah. So it's just a different kind of setup. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead.

Sorry. I appreciate it though. Like I like the whole, the system is really like interesting to me. Okay, I have a meditation practice for you. Sure. You're going to get, you're so screwed. Okay. So I want you to sit up straight.

All right. Okay. It's going to be so simple and so hard. So sit up straight, close your eyes. And I want you to observe your breath. So I want you to breathe three breaths with full observation. Now, as you observe the breath, is it changing? Are you controlling it? I follow it from like my lungs and I feel it passed through

all my airways. I just feel. Okay. Close your eyes. Yeah. So is the rate or depth of your breathing changing once you start to observe it? Are you breathing differently now that you're observing it? Yes. Okay. I want you to stop. Stop changing the breath.

Just observe it without changing it. Breathe exactly like you were while we've been talking. Oh, wow. Okay, yeah, all right. Don't slow it down. Don't deepen it. Don't make it artificially shallow. See, it's really, I'm having a hard time because I don't know.

The problem is I'm trying to breathe normally and I'm trying something. And I think that's tied into this meditation technique. I see what you're doing. So do it. Close your eyes. This is really hard for me. Okay. How's it working?

This is really hard. Good. that means you're doing it right. It's because like the first instinct I have is to think, how do I, how do I breathe normally? What is my normal breath pattern like? But the problem is,

it's like, it's kind of like a Schrodinger's cat thing because you don't know. Like, you'll never, yeah. No, hold on. So now let's think you're doing it right. So now tell,

so what, first of all, what's Schrodinger's cat thing? Explain yourself because I keep on cutting you off. So it's like a talking about, the observer effect and like under like they use it as like an example to explain like quantum phenomenon or shenanigans like that but essentially um the the cat inside is in a state of like either being alive or dead and the observer effect is you opening that box and realizing what it is but at the

same time like you could never know that possibility without observing it So I think that's analogous to this meditation exercise because I will never truly know what my normal breathing pattern is because in observing it, I am actually tainting the experiment. So what I'm hearing from you is that you can't observe without exerting at least a tiny bit of control. Yes. So what do you think? And then you were also kind of talking about not knowing what your normal breathing pattern is. Yeah, because it's like, I don't know how to... What should you do about that?

I kind of like want to shortcut the whole thing and just not think about the breathing at all. Okay. What does that mean? That means like the... Because I feel like I'll never truly be able to observe a normal breath because that lingering doubt of whether or not I'm exerting control over the situation. Good. Good. So you've leveled up. Beautifully done. So now you're ready for the second part of the technique. which you did very good. So now I'm going to frame it for you a little bit. So the first is that you should do this technique in two ways.

One is to sit and do it with your eyes closed. And the second is to sneak attack it. So throughout the day, see if you can catch your breath and observe it without it noticing that you're looking. See if you can notice it without changing it. But it's got to be a sneak attack because if you start to observe it, it's going to change. So sneak attack it.

And do both and see what you can figure out. Very cool. I like it. It'll reinforce that mental thought process of being able to let go, hopefully. Yes? Yes. Right? It'll also reinforce the thought process of you catching yourself throughout the day

and noticing what's going on inside you. Right? So it's to hold. an awareness of what you're looking for throughout your day. And once you start sneak attacking the breath and trying to catch it here or there, you can also be on the lookout for the feeling of unlovedness. Good luck, ma'am. Yep.

Thank you again for having me. Take care. Yep. Thanks for being on here. Yep. Okay. All right. So I don't know if I hope he's not watching.

Okay. Okay, so, oh, gee, if you're watching, you have to stop watching. Actually, I know I won't say. All right. Let's see, what do we want to do now? Do we want to do? Do we have time for a question? Maybe not.

Let's see if we can. Hold on. Oh, yeah. Okay. Great. Hey, we have time for a question? Two? Yeah.

Sure. Let's do it. All right, let's do questions. Yo. Yo, man. What's up? What's up? So I have two questions.

So the first. one is, or do we approach the situation in different ways when we feel stuck in life, where we should start? And if we should adopt new ways of thinking or reflecting, that's the first one. So how do you approach feeling stuck in life? Yeah. Well, so I think that depends a little bit about how you're stuck. but I'd say the first thing you know the takeaway from this week is that a lot of people

are not stuck because of what life gives them but because of what they put on themselves right so the first thing is like what is your contribution to being stuck and should you change your thinking absolutely and oftentimes you want to change it in kind of like the way that like if you've been thinking that there's a particular way to get out of being stuck

like let's say you don't have any money and your thought is like, you know, I need to get a job, I need to get a job, I need to get a job. Like, if you're still stuck after having that thought that you need to get a job, you need to maybe have a different kind of thought. So like, just imagine, take getting a job off the table

and asking yourself, like, okay, how do I get money? Like, it's not just about getting a job, like where else can I start to move forward? Because if your mind has come up with some solutions and those haven't worked for you, as logical as they may seem, just let go of that. solution. Okay. So the second question is, how do I make fenugreek seeds taste better? Because when I drink

sometimes seeds with water in the morning, I need to make lots of effort to drink it because it tastes. Yeah, so I'm sorry, what was your question? So fenugreek seeds taste bad or water tastes good? No, Fenugrix tastes bad. How can I make it taste better? You can't make it taste better. Why do you want it to taste better? So I can drink it more often. Why can't you drink it because it tastes fat?

Yeah, because it's hard to swallow. So you soak them overnight, so they're soft? Yeah. Okay. But the taste makes it hard to swallow. Do you chew them? Yeah, sometimes. Okay, so if you chew them, they're going to be bitter.

But, like, my bigger question to you, what's your name, buddy? No. So, Nuno. Why is it that you let things that you don't enjoy control your actions? Sorry, can you repeat again? So why is it that, like, something tasting bad keeps you from doing it? Why can't you eat things that taste bad? Yeah, because I don't know.

I have to think about it. Good. Then think about it. That's exactly what I want you to do. So I have a meditation practice for you today, you know. Okay. What do you have in your house that you don't like to eat? What of things? Like what? Like vegetables, like salads and things.

Like, do you have like something in your house right now that you can go pick up and eat and put into your mouth? Let me think. I think so. Okay. So go and eat that thing. Go do it now. And then ask yourself, yeah. So I'm going to tell you what to do. So I want you to ask yourself, like, what is it about this that I don't enjoy?

And can I do this? Or does the lack of enjoyment, like, hold me back from doing it? Because the reason that you're stuck may be very, very different from the reason that OG is stuck and also the same. Because it sounds like you don't let yourself. do things that you don't enjoy. And if you could do the things that you don't enjoy, then you wouldn't be stuck anymore. So it is you that's holding yourself back because you don't like something. Like, you're not going to move anywhere in life if you don't do things that you don't like.

If you can free yourself of being restricted by the things that you like to, then life becomes really, really easy. Yeah. So go and eat. and for those of you at home, I want you guys to spend as long as you can eating things that are a balanced diet and also the things that you like the least.

So the next time that you make a meal or you go, I mean, no one's going to restaurants nowadays, but let's see you go and pick up food. You're going to order food, right? If you go and get takeout, you're going to have options between things that you like and things that you don't like. And the funny thing about us is we always order the things that we like.

So I want you guys to practice ordering the things that you don't like or eating the things that you don't like and if you get good if the things that you don't like no longer control you then how would your life change Nuno do you have any idea?

I think so I would be more healthy and a lot of things I can think like sometimes I don't think I don't like to study, but I need to do it. But if I could just observe the feeling of not liking to study,

I think I could study more, for example. Good. So there's actually like a pretty extreme meditative practice called Aghori sadana. So sadana means spiritual practice. Ghor means fear. And aghori means no fear. So these are people that as part of their spiritual practice do not let fear control what they do. So they live in cemeteries, practice cannibalism and all kinds of other weird shit.

They tend to be like pretty infamous. But there's like a spiritual practice that kind of says that like if you want control over yourself, you have to do things that you sort of find repulsive. I'm not saying that you guys should do things that you find repulsive, but I'm saying that like think about how bad you, how much your life is restricted by the things that you like or don't like. And if you could remove that,

if you could like everything equally and playing a video game was no different from studying, imagine what you could accomplish. Yeah. And if you want to start walking that road, it starts with little, little things like ordering the food that you like the least on the menu. That's very true.

Good luck, man. Thanks, good. Ready for next. It is difficult. Hello. Hey. What's up, man? Hey, Dr. Kay, I was wondering if your body can become addicted to a certain emotion.

Oh, that's an interesting question. What do you think? When we see addiction, the behavior, right? It's usually triggered by the lack of emotion. and when you were young or something like that, right? They were basically reacting to a scar. Okay. But there is like addiction to alcohol.

Sure. So when people try to go cold turkey off alcohol, the body reacts, right? because it needs that alcohol. It has been functioning for so long with that substance in the body that it basically needs to stay alive. So if you have been like shit talking or co-workers or something like that, you may become addicted to that little payoff that you get for the shit talking or whatever. Yeah, so, I mean, that makes sense to me. So I wouldn't really call that an addiction, but let me just try to clarify a couple of terms. So I think everything you said makes sense. The first thing is that I don't think that people use addictive behaviors when they're not feeling anything. I think they usually use addictive behaviors when they are feeling something negative. Because the addictive behavior takes away the feeling of negativity. So OG like sometimes engages in sexual relations.

relationships or people use substances because they feel sad or lonely or unloved or whatever. With me? I think a lot of times people aren't aware of what the emotion is, but usually I think about addictive behaviors as making bad emotions go away. All right. With me or not with me? Yeah, yeah. It's cold pain going quiet.

Yep, exactly. That's a great way to describe addiction. Now, so then your question is like, can your, body be addicted to certain feelings? And I mean, I was kind of envisioning like sitting in a chair. Like, can I get addicted to sitting in a chair? I mean, the short answer is sort of. Like, I don't know if it's really an addiction, but I think that generally speaking, the mind and body are drawn to things that satisfy certain needs. So shit talking your coworkers, I wouldn't really call that an addiction. I would call that like satisfying your ego. And you could call it. And you could call

satisfaction of ego, your addiction, but that sounds like, so you can definitely have repetitive behaviors that create common feelings in your body. I just don't know that I would quite classify that as an addiction. Does that make sense? Like, I think it makes sense that you would frequently shit talk your coworkers because you feel better, and then you will seek that feeling better over and over and over again. But in my mind, like, even those two things sound the same, I feel like there are different words to describe those. One word just hasn't been invented yet. But I think of like the mechanism of addiction and the mechanism of ego is being like separate neurological pathways. Like there are different parts of the brain.

Okay. But like emotions aren't like they act in our physiology, right? Sure. and like we have so much cortisol so much dopamine and stuff so can we get like addicted to that cortisol level it make behaviors to reach that that cortisol like get stressed on purpose yes sort of but once again i i wouldn't quite use the word addiction because addiction means a specific thing neuroscientifically. So, but can you get into patterns where you, like, so like, there are adrenaline junkies, right? So adrenaline junkies are, in a sense, addicted to certain kinds of behaviors because they like

the feeling of, like, adrenaline pumping through their veins. So reward, so I would call it reward chasing as opposed to addiction. Because reward chasing involves, like, under, if we talk about reward chasing, addiction is on you know all addictions are reward chasing but not all reward chasing is an addiction oh I see you know got it so like I don't I mean

just because I love to play a video game doesn't mean that I'm addicted to a video game even though I like that feeling like I mean I recently I've been talking about Deep Rock Galactic because that's what I've been playing because I can play for like 25 minutes at a time which is nice because I have kids but like I like to play it I enjoy it

because we definitely have reward circuitry that reinforces behaviors, but not all reward circuitry that reinforces a behavior is an addiction. But do people want to engage in a behavior that rewards them in a particular way, whether it be physiologic or psychological? Absolutely. Are there hormones involved? Absolutely. Can you get, can you want to shit talk your coworkers because it makes you feel good,

like it pumps up your ego? Absolutely. Do people do that kind of shit every day? Does it kind of look like an addiction? Absolutely. But I would still say that neuroscientifically, the mechanisms, the circuits in the brain that are activating are different. And then the circuits that activate during addiction.

Okay, cool. Thanks. Yeah, great question, man. Thank you.