HealthyGamerGG - Talking with Alinity about Internet Hate

Episode Date: July 9, 2020

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Natalia, okay. Yeah. Great. So, Natalia, tell me a little bit about how you're doing today and what we're talking about. Okay. I'm super nervous because I'm probably going to cry because I cry a lot. Me too. Yeah?

I cry a lot. I cry really. Thank you about cries. It's making me cry. So it's going to be tears. Is it okay to cry? Yeah, I cry all the time. So, yeah, I'm not embarrassed of crying anymore, I guess.

Okay. But yeah, I've just been having like a really difficult time lately. And I think I wanted to talk about mainly like two things that maybe overlap a little bit. Sure. Okay. So the first part is I'm bipolar. Okay. Um, I've been diagnosed for about four years.

Okay. But I've struggled with like mental health issues my whole life. Okay. I had a eating disorder when I was 14. Okay. And I got was 50 kilos before. And by the time I was 16, I was 23. So yeah.

It was pretty rough. I nearly died. And I recovered from that at about 16. And then I was bulimic from 16 till about 22. No, till about, like, that's not true. Okay, I was, I was like a type of bulimia. I don't really want to talk about it, but I was the one type of bulimia until 22. And then from 22 to like 25, I was a different type of bulimic.

And then in 2017, that's 2016, that's when I got diagnosed bipolar. And when I started my medication, my bulimia actually went away. Okay. Yeah. So it sounds like you have treatment providers right now that you're connected with. then yeah um i've been on remission like i saw my psychiatrist uh for like a whole year uh she's the one that diagnosed me bipolar and um i um i um she put me on remission after a year because i was pretty stable um i take a lemotry gene um take 100 milligrams a day okay so um yeah

I have a, like, I think it's type two. So I cycle really quickly, really, really, really, really quickly. I sometimes have two hypomanic episodes within a month and then two depressive episodes within a month. My medication has been really good at, like, keeping my depression to, like, just a few days. So I can manage that way. but my issue mostly is with my hypomania because I become very impulsive and sometimes I like become a little like mean which is so not me. Okay. And I sometimes like I wouldn't say I become like aggressive but I become like snippy.

Like I say things that I don't mean saying to people. And I do like very Like abrupt things that I don't think about doing Does that make sense? Sure. I have like really racing thoughts And sometimes it feels like Like

Especially when I'm asleep at night It feels like my body is like Like my body is asleep But my mind isn't asleep Like it feels like my mind is just like racing all the time So that's like My main issue right now is like dealing with the consequences of the things that I do when I'm hypomanic. I start a lot of things that I don't finish and I start a lot of projects that then I don't want to do.

And so like, that causes some issues. And then the interplay of that within my stream and like internet culture in general. So that's kind of what I'm struggling right now. Like I think that my bipolar, I have it under control, but the stress of my job is making it really difficult to handle. Okay. So thank you so much for sharing all that, Natalia. So let me just start by offering kind of a couple of perspectives. So the first thing is, you know, I think a lot of people have been asking important questions about whether what we do on stream is,

is therapy or not therapy or mental health treatment. So I just want to make it clear. So you have providers. So I'm not going to comment on the management of your bipolar disorder, whether you have bipolar disorder or things like that. That I think is about, you know, that's medical. And I'm glad that you have people with that that that can help you with that. I think what I would like to talk to you about is,

I think this is actually a perfect example of how I still think I can help you because I think there could be stuff going on here that is actually not bipolar. disorder. Okay. So if we think about like, like, so what I really try to do here on stream is help people understand how their mind works. And what I'm hearing from you is that sometimes your mind acts impulsively that you exhibit means behaviors.

And in my experience, I think that meanness and impulsivity don't have to come from bipolar disorder. Does that make sense? But I'm so not like that. sometimes. Yep. I understand that there are fluctuations within your mood. I'm not blaming you for it, but what I'm saying is that adjusting your medication may not be the only way to improve that. Because all of us are mean or impulsive at times. And there may be something going on with bipolar disorder that makes you act more mean or impulsive. But it's a dangerous assumption to assume

that that is just bipolar. And in my experience, if you think about regular, regulating your impulses or understanding where meanness comes from. That's something that all human beings can do and improve those things. And just because you're bipolar doesn't mean you can't do those things too. It just means that those things may be harder for you to do if you have bipolar. Does that make sense? Yeah. No, I understand that.

But the thing is like what I'm mostly struggling right now. And like I think that I've been able to like grow and change a lot to get to point with like I do yoga and I meditate. Awesome. And I'm becoming like a very spiritual person. Cool. And it's helped me a lot to deal with that. But my biggest issue is with the eight years of recordings that exist on the

internet of my past and the past experiences that I've had and people judging me every day by those things. Okay. So let's talk. That sounds like it's really, really hard to deal with because most human beings get to make mistakes, right? And they get to make mistakes and they get to learn. But when you have eight years of recordings of your mistake, sometimes you're not

allowed to make mistakes in the same way. Or you never get to like really move past them. Is that kind of what's going on with you? Yeah, it feels like I get to make the mistakes. every single day again and again and again and again. What does that mean? Can you help me understand me? Well, because people comment on them all the time, so I have to like relive them. So sometimes it feels like every single day I'm reliving all those moments.

Okay, so it sounds like you're not really, they're not letting you move past it. And you're kind of being reminded every day of the mistakes that you've made. Yeah. What's that like? It's horrible. It's horrible because I'm trying to grow and be better. But it feels like I can move on. That's how it feels.

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you can't move on because people keep on reminding you and bringing you back there. I mean, I can't imagine, I mean, I really don't think that that's like something you're doing wrong. It sounds like, you know, if I have. so sometimes I deal with people who've suffered from abuse

and you know I remember I mean I've heard this story like a thousand times about you know a kid who comes home and they've got a bad grade on a report card and like one of their parents starts yelling at them or hitting them the next day they come home and they hear the same thing like the report card like they have the bad grade

and every day they're just reminded of it over and over and over and over again and even if the kid is studying more, it doesn't matter. If they're studying harder or working harder, they're being more, if they're, if they've actually made steps to improve, like the parent just keeps on beating crap out of them. Sounds like that's what you're going through. Yeah. And like, generally, I've, I've, I've, I've been good at dealing with it. I mean, I've been dealing

with this for two years now. We're literally every stream, um, half the messages I get are about that. Where every single Instagram I post, half the messages are about that. Where every single tweet I post, 90% of the messages are horrible, hateful things. I get messages every day from people telling me to kill myself, that I'm a horror, that I'm the worst thing that's ever happened to Twitch. And like, it's not just one. It's not just two. It's thousands of thousands every single day. and like sometimes I'm good sometimes I can handle it but then some other times I can you know

I'm so Natalia I'm really kind of shocked by that and I'm I'm really kind of wondering like where does all that hatred come from like do you have um like why do they hate you so much like I find it hard to believe that unless you're committing genocide that you know you are deserving of thousands of people just, you know. I feel like if I was like in prison, it would be easier. What would be easier about prison? That at least in prison, it'd be like, I'm getting to pay for my mistakes in a way in which I can move on and get better and work in myself.

But it feels right now that I'm like, like in hell, you know, where like every single day for the rest of my life, I'm going to have to deal with that. And like, it feels like my only option is to just get off social media completely. But the problem is I haven't done anything else with my life. Like I quit college for Twitch. And so like, I would have to let my house go. I would have to let my pets go. You know, like it's just, it's just not an option for me to like go do something else. You sound like you're stuck. Yeah.

It's also shocking to hear, you know, someone say something like, I almost wish I could be in prison because it sounds like if, if there was something, what I'm hearing from you is if there was something you could do to show the people who hate you that you're trying to atone or you're paying your price or whatever, then you would do it. But what I'm hearing from you is that, you know, if they're telling you to kill yourself, Like, there's really nothing you can do to, like, appease them, right? It's like there's no, it's impossible.

Like, what are they looking for from you? I can't imagine what would actually satisfy them. Well, I could kill myself. And I've thought about it so many days. So many times. So I already had a plan on how I was going to do it. Okay. You know.

Are your providers aware of that? No. Okay. Can we talk for a second about that? Mm-hmm. What keeps you from sharing that with them? I probably really see my psychiatrist is like 2017. Okay.

So maybe give them a call and kind of let them know what you're going through. Because I know as a psychiatrist, one of the things, the most difficult thing about my job is when I'm there to help someone and they don't let me. know that they need help. And so if you're going through this stuff, I would strongly, strongly recommend that you reach out to your psychiatrist and kind of let them know that something is going on. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to change your medication or anything like that. I mean, I'm not going to be able to do it because my friends literally like, they chase me around everywhere.

What do you mean? Like my friends don't let me be alone because they know. No, no. You're talking about you're not going to be able to kill yourself? Yeah. Okay, well, I'm not, I'm not like, I'm not left alone ever. Okay, so that's reassuring. And also, whether you're left alone or not, I think is actually like besides the point,

because the point here is that you're suffering and there may be things that people can do for you or that you can do for yourself to suffer less. And I'm not talking about winning over the hateful people. What I'm talking about is you said you're becoming more spiritual. So like in a weird way, I think this is a conversation about meanness, hatred, purpose. How do you find a way to move forward? How do you deal with the hate of other people? Because like there's something that sounds to me.

I just don't think I can do it anymore. I don't think I can handle with the hate anymore. Yeah. So that makes sense to me that you can't do that because I'm actually shocked that you've been able to do it this long. Like, this sounds insane to me. Like, how have you been able to do it this long? No, I guess I've been really strong for a very long time. And then, like, I just hit a point where so many things happened, like, one after the other.

And then I just, I don't know. Okay. Yeah. So what I'm asking you to do is lean on the people whose job it is to help you through this kind of thing. So I'm not so I'm not saying that like Reaching out to your psychiatrist is separate from your friends not letting you be alone Like the point here is like if they're not going to let you kill yourself That's great. That's wonderful. That's awesome

And at the same time it is by belief that you don't have to feel this way At least this much I understand that anymore and that there are going to be people around myself included who can try to help you understand You know how to think about yourself how to move forward and I think one of the important people in your life is going to be your psychiatrist and just let them know what's going on okay and probably go see them because it's so hard to explain to anybody what I'm dealing with that doesn't know Twitch and doesn't know social media yeah so so that's it you're spot on it is very hard to explain it but yeah this is this is where

like my psychiatrist is just like I don't know like 50 years old like how do I explain to her why this is affecting me so much. So here's the thing. You got to give him a chance to understand. Okay. And here's the thing. So Natalia, I think this is really important. If you can think about other people in this moment,

I know this is going to sound bizarre, but I think the world would be a better place. The world would be a better place if you told you're a psychiatrist. Now, why is that? It's because 50-year-old psychiatrists are going to practice for another 20 years, and unless people like you try to explain it to them, they're not going to get it. And if they get it,

think about how much more they would be able to help all of the other patients that they're seeing. You think you're the only person in this person's practice that's dealing with hate from social media. Your hate may be way worse than everyone else's, but I can guarantee you because I'm a fucking psychiatrist and people come into my office. Social media is tearing everyone apart.

And so in a weird way, if you can, I think it's almost like if you can afford, if you have any bandwidth left to try to make the world a better place, which I don't blame you for if you don't, because it sounds like you're running on empty. You know, talk to your mental health provider and try to explain with them. And if they don't understand, they don't understand. And then maybe you try to get a referral for a therapist who's younger or something like that. And I'm happy to help you try to problem solve about, you know, trying to find you good help if, you know, with your psychiatrist and things like that if you need help.

But I would strongly encourage that, you know, you, because you just, it's not fair for you to deal with the shit. Because it sounds like you're dealing with the shit alone, too. Like, who supports you during this time? Like, for the past two years. Like, who do you have in your corner? Yeah, not a lot of people. I have two, like, really close friends and that's pretty much it.

Yeah. I have a really good community. Like, I have a lot of people that love me. You know, like I have a pretty strong community that like shares a lot of love. So that does help. And I love streaming. I love sharing my life and my love for life with people. But and like this whole time I was just telling myself that I, if I hold on for a little longer, things will get better.

So that's a good thought to have. And what I would like to help you do today, Natalia, is not hold on until things get better, but let's try to think about how we can make them better. Okay. Right? So there are going to be fluctuations over time, which is completely normal. But if you're getting a lot of hate from the internet, how can we think about what that's doing to your mind? How can we think about, you know, meanness and how to deal with hatred and stress?

What do you think about that? is that a useful use like what do you want to talk about today yeah like generally and and you you mentioned like how have i been able how have i been able to cope for so long with this and i'll explain to you how i was able to cope with it for so long sure number one and i think this is the the main way that i was able to cope with things was to tell myself that the person that people were hating on was not me but the idea of who they thought i was sure so i was able to like separate hate myself from the hate in a way in which they're not hating me but this idea of who they think I am which is not who I am because of these people knew me I assure you a hundred percent they

wouldn't hate me or they wouldn't hate me as much I mean there's a possibility that they would dislike me but not to the point where like being obsessed with me and like messaging me every single fucking day nonstop like I just these people have to be sick like you have to be sick in order to get pleasure of telling a person to kill themselves every day. You know what I mean? Yeah. How do you understand why they hate you so much? They're just angry.

Angry at who? At themselves. What are they angry at themselves about? Oh, I feel like they must have a lot of, like, for you to, there's a saying that says, hurt people hurt, and I kind of put them in that category, because I have things I just like. you know but I don't go out of my way to focus my entire life on the things that I dislike it must mean that they don't have a lot of happy things in their life that they can focus on so the only thing they can do is focus on this idea of belonging to an entire cult of the

internet that likes to hate on me you have to understand I became the punching bag of the internet like doctor disrespect got banned okay I've never met the guy never talked to him like ever had an interaction with the guy. He got banned and I was trending on Twitter with his band, people telling me that it was my fault that he got banned. It just doesn't make any sense, you know? Like, it just, it doesn't make sense.

Like, people were harassing me like, why do you get him banned? Like, what do you do? What do you do the dog? Like, did you cheat with him? Did you, like, and I'm like, dude, like, what the fuck? Right? And so I became obsessed on trying to find out why he got banned because I wanted to prove

these people that like had nothing to do with me and it's just like it's it's impossible to make them happy yeah i know and so that's why i'm trying to think about you know how do we what do we do we do do you approach someone who's impossible when it's when it's impossible to make someone happy how do you deal with that kind of person well you can't that's their own unhappiness i just have to ignore it well yeah so so but then then I've tried. I've tried. Like, there's, I remember there's one guy a little bit ago who was like really, really, really, really angry. Like, just, I could just tell. They were messaging me on Twitter and they're like, kill yourself, kill yourself, horror, horror, horror. And I was like, hey, like, how are you? Like, I was actually worried about him. I was like, how are you? Like, do you have parents? Like, do you have family? And they're like, no, fuck you, fuck you, you, horror. Kill yourself. Kill yourself. And I was like, like, I was actually, I tried talking to the person. I was like, hey, like, if you need anything, you know, just like, because I was feeling good at the time. Like normally if I'm feeling good, like I'm strong and I can handle it. And I just feel like that person must have been hurting so much, right? And like my whole night, I was just like worried about

this person who's like hating on me. And then I thought, I was like, I'm so stupid. Like, why do I care about this random guy who's telling me to kill myself? Like, I am worried about how they're feeling and their life when they're being so horrible to me. And like, that's not fair to me. Like, I don't know what to do about it. Yeah. Honestly, in Italian, I'm not sure what to do about it either. I mean, my thought is that can I think for a second? Yeah, for sure. Okay. So here's what I'm confused about. So oftentimes people come on on stream and we kind of talk about what they're struggling with. And I can understand that you're struggling with this stuff. But the weird thing about this is like, I don't know that there is some way to help you get to peace with this.

Because it's sort of like there's this assumption that you can do something differently and then you'll be happier or more okay. But like this sounds to me like a little bit like cancer. Like your attitude towards cancer only matters so much. Right. Because like it, I mean, I just don't understand how a human mind can withstand this amount of. constant hatred over this amount of time. Like there's just, there's some things that are just, you're just not going to be able to like, it's just, that's not how humans work.

Like there's like, I mean, I think that you can feel better, but I think we have to acknowledge for a moment that, you know, that, that. That is beyond my control. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And so I think that there's a lot of solace and there's like, I mean, I don't think you have to continue feeling the way that you do now because I think there are some things that you can do differently in some things that you can think about and understand. But at the end of the day,

I guess the first thing that I want to acknowledge is that this is not like a single player game. Right? It's like, and no, I mean, I'm just hearing that there's just a lot of hatred coming from the other side. And like that hatred needs to be addressed in order for you to feel at peace. Because I don't know, I don't know how, I have no idea how you deal with that. Like I just don't think that like unless you become enlightened and and become like a- I'm trying. Unless you become like some sort of superhuman where where you're like woulda and things don't affect you and stuff like that.

We can definitely talk about, you know, how to take one step forward in that way. I've tried like I honestly like I've been, do you know who Alan Watts is? Yeah, yeah. I've been listening to him like every day. I've been like meditating doing yoga. Like but because I've been dealing with. with this for two years now, right? Like, I've tried everything I can do. And, like, I've tried shielding myself from it and the best I can. But it's just like, it becomes impossible. Like,

if I want to do my job, I have to see these head messages. Yeah. So, I mean, there's a part of me that says that, like, the real way for me to help you is, is not necessarily by talking or not, it's not going to be enough to talk to you. I think what I really have to do is try to understand the people who say these kinds of things to you. Right? It's like trying to understand. It's like trying to understand and I'm with you that that there's just angry at things I've done in the past you know do you want to talk about that like I don't understand I mean yeah okay I can I can explain to you I can explain to you everything that happened okay so this all started you have time because this is going to be long go for it okay this all started with PewDie Pye okay he's a big

streamer big um YouTuber the biggest YouTuber in the world I think I was live on stream and one of my viewers showed me his video at the time I was I had just come from a trip and generally when I travel I become a little hypomanic. Sure. Just change and stuff.

And they showed me a video where he was doing an eye tracker challenge where he was looking at some girls on Twitch like get up and sit and stuff trying the whole point of the eye tracker challenges that you don't look at their boobs and their butts and stuff like that and he failed. And so he goes, oh these stupid

with Twitch thoughts, you know, which I don't know if you've heard the term thought. I don't know. It's like a whore. It's like a whore. Okay. Yeah, like just like a hoe. It's like that hoe over there or something like that. Okay.

And I got pretty mad. And I had just started working with this company that was doing like claims on videos. The word like compilations of myself. I didn't think about it. I got up and I screamed to my roommate like, oh, can we copy Strike PewDiePie? whatever. Nothing. It was just for like, like put a copyright strike on his video.

Because he was. Yeah, it was just like a joke. I was trying to play it up for the stream or whatever. You know, like, like being like, oh, let's copyright strike this video. But what people don't understand is that I didn't actually copy strike this video. Like, I didn't do it. It was the company that was working for me. accidentally and coincidentally put a strike on the video.

Now, this was this huge drama on copyright law. The company that I was working with that I stopped working with, they issued a statement saying like, hey, Alinity wasn't the person that did this. It was an employee of ours. They had no reason to do this, like to put this thing out there. But nobody paid attention to that. Everybody was like, she's evil.

She's abusing law, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. even though the proof was there. Like this company issued a statement. They said like, Alenei didn't do this. But he had so many fans and they got so angry, you know? Interesting. And so people,

because he had so many fans, and I was like a pretty small strike. I had like a thousand concurrent viewers. Like I wasn't like huge or anything, but I was like I, you know, I was like a decent size streamer. Anyway, so after that, people started going back on a lot of my old videos

because I have eight years of footage. and I had all my vots from like 2015 and 2016 up. And they went through all my videos, trying to find instances in which I had done things. And I used to have a lot of fun on the stream. I used to drink all the time and like play just dance and like have a lot of fun. And then there's a clip of me and my best friend. We were drinking.

And somebody asks me, this is like the second part of everything. somebody asked me how I got to Canada now I have to put a parenthesis here to explain to you something to explain this part but I met my ex-husband in World Warcraft back in 2009 he came and visited I think 2008 he came and visited me for a year back and forth we were like super in love we ended up getting married in Colombia because he wanted to stay there he wanted to teach in Colombia

but he wasn't able to get a job so he had to come back to Canada because he was broke. I lived with my parents and stuff. So we started like a sponsorship and the sponsorship took a whole year and he visited some times but sometimes not. So then after a year

that I ended up coming Canada would have been married for like a year and a half, two years already. I found out that he had been cheating on me like the whole time. And obviously it was really hard for me because I had left like my entire family in Colombia and everything to be with this guy. So I was very bitter. I separated

from him. I was already in school. So I stayed here in Canada X, like I was going to school. But I have kept a lot of bitterness in my heart for this. And I understand that that was my mistake about being angry at him. Because I said on stream, when the person asked me, like, how did I get to Canada? I said, like, laughingly, I was like, oh, well, I got married and I came to Canada and then I divorced them. And so this whole rumor of me committing immigration fraud got started. And then it was like, oh, you know, I literally committed immigration fraud.

And then like after enough people say it and enough YouTubers make videos of these things, it becomes my reality. You know what I mean? Like people take it as a fact that that, is what happened. And now I am very angry at myself because I feel like if I hadn't been better at him back then, I wouldn't have said those things. So it is my fault for being angry. You know, Talia, I'm not sure I agree with that. And I understand why you would think that. But like, I mean, the story as you tell it today sounds like you sort of, so it sounds like you have sort of a tendency to make off-color jokes. and then for some reason.

And, but I mean, that's, that's not the Twitch. Yeah, but, but people will always misinterpret the things you say. And we'll create this idea that you're some horrible person. Let me finish the whole story. Okay. Okay. So after that, it was like, okay, I committed copyright fraud. Then I committed marriage fraud.

Um, then after that, I, there's, there's an incident with another streamer that I'm not going to mention about. Um, and there was something else. I really don't want to talk about that one. Um, then it was, it was the, the cat thing. And this one was a really bad one. So my cat stands here. I don't know if you've seen clips of it. My cat likes to sit like up here. Um, and I was, I was playing ranked in a game and my cat jumps on my desk and I go like, oh, And I try to put him up here, but he falls. And so that's when the whole animal abuse thing started. Now, people started digging videos of every single time I had interacted with my pets in it years. And then they found a clip where I was drinking vodka and I took a sip of vodka and then my cat licked my lips because I used to do this really gross thing where I would bird feed my cat, which is disgusting. I know. And so... Your cat means you feed your cat food from your mouth.

Yeah. I don't do it anymore, but I used to do that. Okay. We all have younger years where we do things that weren't exactly the farthest. Yeah. Anyway, so I'm drinking vodka and she was able to lick some of my lips and she was clearly distraught. And I never did that again, ever again. Because I was like, oh my God, I was so dumb, but I was really drunk.

So I know it's not an excuse. So then the animal abuse thing got started. I invited the SPCA to my house. They came here. You know, they issued a statement as well saying like, hey, no abuse was found, blah, blah, blah. But now I'm the person that committed copyright law, immigration fraud, animal abuse, and I got away with everything. And you know how I got away with everything?

by sleeping with people. And so this is alinity to the internet. Do you understand a little bit where the hatred comes from now? Yeah, so let me ask you. And I blame myself. It's all my fault. Yeah, so I know that you're going to start thinking that way, right?

Because that's what happens. When we get treated poorly by other people, we start to believe that about ourselves. Like when kids get abused. So it's how... Okay, so when kids get abused, they start to believe things that their abusers tell them. And that's not just true of kids. It's also true of like abusive relationships.

And then we start to believe those things that other people tell us because we hear them over and over and over again. And what I'm hearing from you is that there's, you know, there's like a little person inside you who's trying to tell you not to believe this stuff. But if you hear it often enough, you start to blame yourself as if this is... But they're partly my fault. I mean, there are stupid things I did. Yeah, they are my fault. Yeah, so that's what makes me think that you're reasonable because I think you recognize that you did some things

that were either off color or, you know, not really great on camera or were flat out wrong. Yeah. But like the whole bad thing was so wrong. I mean, the marriage thing, it was wrong that I said it in the way I said it. But I don't think that people should have taken a clip of five seconds of me saying that, you know and like turn it into what it is because now every time i travel it's a huge deal like i can't every time i come back in the country i have to go through like immigration for like two hours to

like talk to someone and explain to them and you know um and like i i'm always able to come in because they always do the research and i show them pictures and the documents and everything and they're like okay you guys live together you know it's okay um we actually set I'm a couple he I didn't get a penny from the guy I didn't want anything to do with him you know but it's like people just want to think that I'm this horrible person yeah so where does the the you slept your way out of all these problems come from well because people can't imagine that I'm not in jail like if you hear all these things you're like this person should be deported and they should be like out of twitch and they should be like in jail or something and they see me streaming like all happy and having fun and people get angry at that. They don't understand that the idea that like yes I have done things that are wrong but half of the things that they've heard about me are alive. Hmm.

Do you think you get treated differently because of your physical appearance? Oh yeah for sure. And because I'm a woman. Like there have been streamers that have like fed their cats chocolate on stream, you know? Is that bad for a cat? Yeah, that's terrible for an animal. It's just as poisonous as alcohol is. Okay.

And it's like people don't think about it twice. You know what I mean? Hmm. Why do you think they think about it twice with you? Because of the narrative? Because of your appearance or both. Yeah, because I think it's the whole PewDie Pie thing that got it started. Like PewDiePie fans.

And you know what the worst part of it is? That PewDie Pie and I are good now. like I'm good with him and his fans still think that like you know this is very funny this happened to me with soda too soda and I used to do arenas back in the day you know soda

soda poppin okay me and soda used to do arena for a long long time ago and there is this ongoing joke in which I was supposed to give him feedpicks for carry me in arenas which was just a joke we had and then in one of his videos he uploaded it online

it was a comment of that and I had people come into my stream for like three years asking me about like pictures of my feet oh feet picks yes and people came into my stream every single day for like three years asking me to give soda the feedpicks

that he deserved so the thing is because these videos are out there live sorry about the burp because these videos are out there because these videos are out there then people think that like that is the reality today you know what i mean like if a person sees a video that's five years old today they're like oh yeah this the reality right now but it's not so it's just it sucks natalia what are you doing right now how are you feeling i'm feeling better yeah you're

smiling why yeah because it's funny it's such a stupid sad funny it's just ridiculous What's ridiculous about? Like, I can't believe that I'm in this situation because the situation is so stupid. And I can't believe that I get the amount of hate I get for something so silly. Yeah. I think it is, it is a funny story. I mean, this is what the internet is about, right? It's about feet pick memes and, and, you know, collaborations and people like, I mean, that's what hopefully,

life is, right? It's like... Yeah, but like back then the feedpick thing was funny. And then the PewDiePie thing, I actually didn't mind it as much. But then now it's just like, you're an abuser and you break the law and this and you get away with so much shit. And it's like, I don't have control over these things. Like I invited the SPCA. I have to deal with immigration every time I travel. You know, the authorities have been here. I have been cleared. The whole, the whole copyright thing got clear. as well and it's just like people don't see that because they see these videos that people who are horrible have made online about me like exaggerating the truth and then there's people like kemstar

who like invents shit all the time he like he's like created Photoshop stuff like there's this ongoing thing that like I sleep with people at Twitch that's the only way possibly in their mind that I'm not banned and it's like I don't even like leave my house. You know what I mean? Like I live, do you know where Saskatchewan is? I just know it's far away. Okay, I live in the Midwest of Canada.

I don't go to, I've never been to TwitchCon. I rarely ever travel. Like, I've gone to Pax twice and like I've gone to Blisscon twice. That's like all the conventions I've been to in eight years. And like, I sleep around so much and shit where like I barely even leave my house. You know? So it's just, it's just so ridiculous. It's just like, it's all so ridiculous. Yeah. So, so, so, Talia, I'm kind of confused because it sounds like, I don't know how to help you right now. I don't know. Can help me. I think the only thing I can do, like, I have like two options. I kill myself or I leave the internet.

Or like I learn how to deal with it, I guess. Yeah, so let's pick number three. Number one sounds like not a good idea. Number two also sounds like that's not a good idea. So number three. And I'm dealing with it. But I think I had a point we're like, I don't want to have to deal with it anymore. It's too much work. It sounds like there are things that other people have in their lives that they can take for granted.

Like when I open up the internet, it is not hateful things about me. And I can only imagine what it's like to I mean, actually I can't imagine what it's like to wake up and have you know, so much hatred about you coming from so many different directions. Like literally having to wake up every single day and the first thing you do in the morning is clear hate Instagram comments.

Like that is my morning. Every single day. That sounds impossible. Then I do it. I've been doing it for two years though. Yeah, I think that helping you deal with it. is like a piece of it, but I think we've got to understand. I mean, I'm looking at this a little bit more,

and apologies if this is unfair to you, Natalia, but I just don't think that you can, you know, people are abusing you, which it sounds like actually what you're, what this sounds to me like is that you're an abusive relationship with the internet. And oftentimes we see a lot of strange. The problem is like, I deserve it though, but.

You deserve what? Well, I deserve the hate, I guess. I mean, I don't deserve all the hate I get, but I deserve the hate at some point. It's just like it's perpetuated, you know? Right. Like, I think I've already paid my dues. Like, I've suffered enough. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So that's where I think that, you know, if you deserve, I think if you did something wrong, I'm sure you deserve, I don't know if you deserve hate. I mean, I think that I would, I don't know that people deserve hate. I think what they deserve is, you know, possibly punishment or justice. Yeah, but people think that I didn't get the judgment that they believe I deserved. So they're giving me my punishment and hate. Yeah, what I'm trying to figure out is why do they care so much about you?

I mean, there are lots of people out there that can be hated. And a lot of streamers get hate from a lot of people. It seems like you're lucky or unlucky enough to get a particularly passionate and committed group of people. Or what's happening is there could be a cognitive bias going on. I mean, I'm not really getting this. But the other option is that you are fucking up on way more regular basis and more severely than you think. Now, is that an option? Like, are you, because I don't think that that's the case.

But generally speaking- No, that's not the case. I mean, I had like an accidental nip slip like three months ago. But other than that, the cat thing was like, the cat thing was, um, oh, and it was so horrible, dude. They, like, made so many memes about it. and like they body shamed me so much telling me that my nipples were like too dark and they were like people made fun of my nipple and it wasn't and hey it wasn't just viewers the thing is it's also streamers that do this all the time and so when streamers talk about me and say shit about me then

their viewers come and hate on me and so i just like got constant waves of people coming into my stream because they'll like show a clip for like like sometimes on instagram they'll be like a story of something I said like three years ago and then there'll be like my Instagram gets flooded with people saying hateful stuff. How many people are there do you think that that sort of do this? Is it like, is it a lot or is it like a few very dedicated people? There are some big streamers that do this. Like big drama channels love talking about me.

Because I think like I became a meme and so many people hated me so much that I became like a really easy way of getting views and followers and likes. You're smiling again. What does that mean? What are you feeling? Because it's dumb. So what are you feeling when you start to smile? I just like laugh about things that make me sad.

Are you sad about this? Of course. I just don't think it's fair. Okay. That people get to use me and the bad things that have happened to me for their own monetary benefit. I think it's dumb. Yeah, I've come to understand that there are a couple of channels that basically are, like, drama farming. Yeah.

Teamstar talks about me, like, every day, though. Like, what? Even if I don't do anything, he likes to, like, go, like, oh, I know Alinity. I know what Alinity has on Twitch, blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't have anything on Twitch. What is, who is Keemstar? Oh, he's just a freaking sociopath. He's like, he's like, he's done so many horrible things.

I don't even know where to start. You should go watch the, the he-ha productions. They made a video on him. I don't even want to talk about it. He's just not a nice person. And I'm pretty sure everybody can agree with that. Well, he has followers, but he's known for, like, making up shit and, like, going after people and, like, affect them a lot. And I, yeah, just not nice.

Yeah, Natalia, I'm sorry to say, but like, everything you're telling me makes me think that this is not like, this problem is bigger than you. I mean, there's a lot here in terms of like grief and difficulty and stress and shit like that. But I don't know. Like sometimes when I talk to people, their perceptions are distorted. And so I think that part of what I do is like help them understand how does your mind work. Okay, what is stress doing to you, things like that. But in a weird way, I'm not, I'm not hearing a whole lot. Like, I don't know exactly how to help you.

Like, do you have any sense of what I can do to help you? What could I do that would be helpful? I don't know. Do you think you can be helped? You're the professional. You tell me. Yep, I am the professional. Do you think you can be helped?

If you don't think I can be helped. That's not what I said. I'm asking you, do you think you can be helped? I honestly think that everything that I could have done, I've already done it. Yep. I can see. Yeah, I can see that you would think that way. So my next question for you is, do you think you can be helped?

Do you think you can feel better? Do you think you can be better? I don't know. It's just a big problem. Like, it's not, you're right, it's not just me. It's like, it's like an issue of like social media and the world and stuff. Yeah. And so maybe that's why I'm having some difficulty because like I think we have to start with your perception.

of whether you have to continue to feel this way. Right? Because like changing the way that you feel is actually step two. Step one is can you change? Do you have to wake up and feel the way that you do every morning? No. It's not worth it anymore. Okay.

So what about your, what do you think can change about the way that your mind is or the way that your life is. Like the situation that I'm put in is the only thing that needs to change. So I'm not so sure. I agree with that. Like either like not being on the internet anymore,

you know. And like that's a possibility for me. Like I can just go back to school or something. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So generally speaking. I do feel like this is going to follow me everywhere.

Like I live in a small city and literally like everybody knows about. me. Funny thing, I was actually, I was actually in, um, in nursing school when I started streaming, the first two years of streaming. And, um, I actually had a viewer report me to the CRNA, the registered nurses association of Saskatchewan. They sent a bunch of shit about me that I was like getting naked on stream and saying

that I was paying college through that. Just like stupid shit. And I got called to the dean's office and the dean was like, super racist. It was awful. It was an awful experience. It was partly the reason why I quit nursing to stream was because of that. So like I'm thinking like if I go back to school, it's going to be that too. Like people aren't going to leave me alone regardless of what I do. Like I'd have to change my name and go somewhere else maybe. Like maybe that's the only way. Yeah, I don't want to accept that answer. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying that I don't want to accept it.

you think about that? I think it would be really nice to go and start again from zero. Somewhere else. What would be nice about that? That I don't have to deal with this anymore. Yeah, that does sound. I wouldn't blame you if you decided to do that. I mean, I think no one really could, or I don't see how anyone could. I'm sure I think if we're, I'm hearing one thing, Natalia, it's that people blame you for all kinds of shit that's unfair. So they may find a way to blame you then. I mean, I wouldn't let people know where I am or what my new name is.

They wouldn't be able to find me. It's like I have to disappear, basically. Do you want to do that? Yeah. I want to be a different person. I don't like me anymore. That hurts to hear. Because I don't think that you're...

I don't think it's fair for you to not like the person that at least I'm talking to. I like the person I'm talking to. I think you're a wonderful person. That's sweet. Thank you. Why do you think I think that? Because you're a nice person and you see the good of people. Okay. Right?

So now we see something interesting. So I think you're a wonderful person because I'm relentlessly positive. Is that what you're saying? No. No, I'm not saying. bad but okay like if a person is not like a good person they see the bad in others if a person like i don't know how to explain this okay so you see the good in people you're seeing the good the good qualities in me what do i see in you that's good what do i see in you that's good i don't know

you tell me nope you tell me if you really if you really have trouble with it you really okay um I'd really like it if you could try. So I'm just meeting you for the first time today. Yeah. So like what could I possibly think is respectable? But you probably say that to all your like clients and patients. You always tell them that you like. Ah, so when you say, when you say that I say that to everyone, what you're doing is actually invalidating when I'm telling you.

Do you see that? You're kind of saying, but you say that to everyone. You don't know me. You don't know me. How could you like me? Ah, that's a good question. I don't know you. So what is it about you that I don't know?

What would change my mind? Let's give it a shot. But be careful because we don't want to give people like more ammo. So maybe don't speak. But. Oh my God. Right? I mean, we need to be careful here for a second.

But I'd say try me. No, like, okay, I'll tell you what my friends say about me. They say that, um, I'm a very generous person. Okay. Actually, Josh said that to me yesterday, that I'm very relaxed, like, I'm very chill, I'm cool with whatever. Like, I'm not a complicated person.

I like to treat every human the same. Like, I hate when, like, other content creators think, like, they're better than other people. Like, that really triggers me. So I don't know if there's a word for defining, like, I like to treat everyone equally. Okay. No matter like who they are. Do I know any of that about you? No, you don't know that about me.

So why on earth would I think you're a wonderful person? Is it just because that's what I say to everyone? Because I'm a human and all humans are wonderful in a way, I guess. I don't know. Tell me. Yeah. So, but so, so, so, so, so, Talia, good. So now let's think about the answers that you're coming up with are just like general, right? There's nothing specific about it.

But I think this is the problem is that you started when you started when you see. say you don't want to be you anymore, what I'm seeing is that you don't see anything specifically good about you as a person. Like, you can't, you literally can't come up with anything that you've talked about today that would make you like respect and appreciate you as a person. Right? It's all general stuff. It's like just because I'm a nice guy and I see the good and all people shit like that. And I wish that was true, but I don't. I see, I see badness in people too. So here's what I think is pretty respectable. The first is that you're trying to be different. That first and foremost has you in my corner.

I'm in your corner, sorry. Because I think you've recognized that you've done some things wrong and you're trying to change. So if there is one thing that will make me think that you are a wonderful person and makes me think that makes me respect you and also makes me think that you deserve my help is that you yourself are trying to change. So I don't know if you get this. Natalia, but not everyone is like that. Like you just think about the people that send you Instagram messages every day or like those people. Do you think they wake up in the morning and they say,

I'm going to try to be a better person? What have I done wrong in my life? And how can I try to do better? I find it hard to believe that the legions of people that are hating you wake up every day and try to become better human beings. Maybe they are. Maybe it's unfair.

maybe we're judging them unfairly fine, right? And maybe there's a bias with the way that you're displaying information. There are all kinds of reasons that that could be wrong. But generally in my experience, when you have people who wake up every day and they just like spout hate at other human beings, that doesn't strike me as a very self-reflective person. Maybe they are. I don't know. So the first reason that I think you're wonderful is because I think you're trying to be a different person.

Second thing is that, you know, I know this is probably going to, I'm going to get some for this, but I think you're actually kind of funny. And I think that you're also maybe, I don't know if you're, and I say this with respect, okay, but, you know, I still got to say it. I don't know if you're unlucky or, to be honest to tell you, I don't know if you're a little bit stupid. Because I think that like some of the stuff that you're doing on stream is like, is like really not that great.

and that sounds kind of dumb to me but I also think a lot of what you're describing is hilarious like I think the whole feet pick thing is is fucking hilarious and I think that you are unlucky because I think there are people I just like making people laugh I know and that's what Twitch streamers do

yeah I really sometimes I think like if I make myself look stupid and I get people to laugh like that's a win on me like I don't mind making a fool out of myself if I can get somebody to have a good talk Yeah. So, I mean, I think a lot of what you do is like par for the course for what happens on Twitch and actually why Twitch is a wonderful place. Because there are stupid-ass memes that get propagated. And they're actually suicidal kids out there who can watch that laugh, get their day gets a little bit brighter and the world actually becomes a slightly better place. And I do believe that. And I also think that like, I mean, I haven't really watched your streams and I don't really know and I'm new to Twitch. I've been doing this for about six months. And I don't have time to watch much Twitch anyway.

Yeah. But it does sound to me like there are a couple of things that you've done, which I would really think long and hard about. And at the top of the list is like how much you consume alcohol in general and also on stream. I don't anymore. Okay. That's smart. Yeah. I drink sometimes, but. So that's the kind of thing. Like when I think when I respect you and I think you're a wonderful person, like that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about.

Right? Because at the end of the day, I want to have hope for you. and I think you are a good person and sure do I see the good in people, absolutely. But I also see like the bad of people. And what I'm hearing from you is that, you know, you make a couple of off-color comments. Like I think, I mean, you know, personally,

I'm not saying that this comment was good or that I support it. But I think sort of like cracking an immigration joke about your ex-husband who cheated on you is like within the realm of understandable, acceptable, unclear. But like, people make jokes all the... With what I say now. Like, I used to be like a free-spirited person.

Yeah. I'm not... I'm not afraid. Here's the way that I felt before all this happened. I knew that I was good. Right? Like, I knew in my heart that I was good. And I wasn't afraid of, like,

saying something that would make people think I was bad because I thought that people would receive me in the way that I was expressing myself. and what I've learned is that you have to be really careful with how you say things because they can be misinterpreted. And I didn't know this because as a little girl, my parents never like told me not to do something or not to say something. They let me do whatever I wanted to do and say whatever I wanted to say, even if it wasn't appropriate. They thought they were just letting me be my true me. So I never really learned that as a kid to like be careful with my words.

Yes. I think that's a very important lesson to learn. And I'm happy to hear that it sounds unfortunately that you had to learn it the hard way. That especially when you have a public platform, the words that you say have a lot of meaning. And I'm not saying that the joke was appropriate. What I'm saying is that like I, you know, in private, I've had a lot of people who have dealt with very difficult situations and painful situations. And they oftentimes, so the only way they can tolerate them is to make jokes about them. And that's what I do. That's what I do.

Like, I make, like, cap-throwing jokes now all the time. Because, like, it's the only way I can cope with it. Yeah. You know? But, like, then people see it and they're like, oh, my God, that she doesn't feel sorry for what she's done. And so, like, it's just difficult. It feels like there's no win, you know?

After this whole, like, animal abuse thing happened, I was doing yoga on stream. I was trying to practice a headstand. And to go in a headstand, you have to go and downward dog. Then to, and it's a position when you go like this, basically, where your legs are here, your bum is up here, and your head is down here, right? And my dog, this was right after the animal abuse. My dog comes behind me and starts sniffing my ass.

And so I thought, I can't push her because if I push her, people are going to be like animal abuse. Sorry, sorry, I very slowly move down, you know, and like, I was like, oh, Kah, careful. And yeah, it took me a long time to, like,

get out of the post without, like, being super careful not to touch her or hurt her. And then my people started saying

was that I fuck my dog. Seriously. They started making memes about me fucking my dog and that I had trained my dog to lick my vagina

or whatever. And it's just like, it doesn't matter what you do. Yeah. What the fuck? How do you get that from dog sniff asses?

That's what they do. I'm sorry, that just sounds so preposterous to me. I just feel like people really want me to be evil. You know what I mean? Yeah, so then let me ask you a question, okay? So maybe I'm, okay, so a couple of thoughts. One thought that I just want to toss out and then I have a question for you. So the first is that, you know, about a week ago, we had a group of female gamers who just came on and talked about their experiences with dealing with toxicity and games.

And one of the interesting things that they talked about at the end is actually, expressing some amount of curiosity about like why are why are the dudes toxic in games like what's going on in their head and that's got me thinking a lot about like understanding where the birth of hatred comes from because like so far what we've been focused on like is an organization is like helping the people who are getting hurt and like trying to help like the victims but like I've been thinking a lot about you know should we be focusing on the source of the toxicity instead of the effect of the toxicity. Because what I'm hearing and just hearing you today,

and once again, there could be like a bunch of cognitive bias or things like that, but I'm not really getting that. I mean, it sounds like you recognize that you did a couple things that were sort of out of line. I mean, none of it really sounds banworthy, you know, to me. I don't know. But, you know, I don't know. And so it's just got me thinking a lot about. them instead of you.

But I don't know that it's going to be productive to have a conversation about them. So let's just talk about it. So I just wanted to toss that out. I love it if you think about it for a little while and then get back to me about. About the origin of the hatred. Yeah. Or if you have thoughts about that. Like I mean, because I just don't think.

It comes from someone who is, is angry. Yeah. You know? So like, I mean, maybe a feeling of like powerless. Yeah, so that's the whole point is like it's like maybe. Like we don't understand. Yeah. Yeah, okay.

But here's the question that I have for you. And I think that this is kind of an important. When you said that when you were growing up, like you had a sense that you were good as a person. And I'm curious about do you still feel that way? Do you feel like on the inside, Natalia is a good person? I do. But I don't think that people see that. And that's what hurts me.

Yeah. I don't think that they, I think they choose not to see that. Yeah. I think it means a lot to them for you to be something else. How is it, what is it called that bias where like when you believe something, everything that gets shown at you is just going to reaffirm the bias? Yeah, I think that's the availability. Confirmation bias.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. It doesn't matter what I do at this point. Like, people have already made up their mind and who I am. Everything I do is just going to confirm what they believe. Yeah. So I don't know.

So it sounds like you're able to still separate. their hatred and sort of recognize that some of that is irrational. Oh, yeah, I can. Yeah. But it still affects me. Yeah. How does it affect you? What hurts?

It just frustrates me. Frustration is an umbrella emotion. There's another kind of emotion lying underneath frustration. What are you frustrated by? Can I go to the bathroom real quick? Yep. Okay. Okay.

I'll think about it while I'm in the bathroom. Okay. Okay. All right, Twitter chat. Yeah, this is, this is interesting. I don't know how much of this is about her. Like, it's weird, right? Like, I mean, I don't, I mean, you know what this reminds me of?

But, like, it reminds me of, like, being a field medic. I mean, I've never been a field medic. And it's like, if you get a patient that's been shot a bunch of times, and then you deal with, you know, you get the bullets out and things like that. And then they go back out into the. the field. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt you. Nope. Go for it.

I have to say I have the biggest insights in life when I'm in the bathroom. I figured it out. You figured it out. What did you figure out? It's a control thing. What does that mean? I've always had a control problem, like my eating disorder, like everything. It's about not being able to control things in life. I can't control what people think about me.

That upsets me. I can't control what people say about me. That upsets me. Ah, now we're getting somewhere. See, now I can help you with us. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So tell us more about that. No, like I, I've always heard that like anorexia stems from like a lack of control. And like for me, the way that like I've always coped with stress has been by like being able to control things. Yep. So like when I was younger. it was with food I would just like be like you know the whole world can be falling apart

but if I'm only eating one apple a day that's the only focus in my life and everything else doesn't matter now because I don't have that anymore I organize so I just like take my entire closet apart

organized by color by shape by form you know clean my entire home, things like that. I've always had an issue with not having control over things. And I think that probably stems from somewhere in my childhood where my dad was in prison or, you know, probably there. I feel like all my issues started with my... I grew up in Columbia in the 90s.

And there was cartels and guerrillas and bombings and kidnappings and the cartel went down. My dad was related to the cartel. He ended up in prison. It was like, then my parents separated. It was just like one thing after the other. And right after that, I developed my eating disorder. What was going on around that time?

Well, like I said, it was like one thing after the other. Yeah, sorry. So it sounds like, so it sounds like. your dad went to prison and he did what was that like for you it sucked it really did and not just because of that but because my mom found it he was cheating on her while he was in prison so my mom suffered a lot because of that then my dad was cheating on her while he was in prison yeah my dad's a big cheater like i've it's five of us from four different moms there's overlapping relationships like that was a player yeah so anyway um i had like a tumultus

childhood i would say there is like a lot of things that happened that don't i don't know i wouldn't say like more than the average person but there's a lot of change happening rapidly between the ages of like nine to 13 um and then my eating disorder started then when i was 16 my mom had cancer um yeah and then um i was still being bulimic at the time and i was in um i got into medical school but then i started playing world warcraft and i got like i got upset no but it was bad like i was addicted to world warcraft i quit school everything i um i started just like would wake up, play while all day until I went to bed for two years. I didn't do anything.

That's how I met my ex-husband. And then I ended up here in Canada. And then I ended streaming. And it's just like my whole life has just been like a roller coaster of things going on. What did your dad think about you? Ooh, my relationship with my father, Freud. Why would he say about this? Okay.

My dad wasn't really that much there. Like he was there He was there like on the weekends We didn't have like a really close relationship But he was always there You know He helped a lot He put me through like a really good school

He paid two things So my dad paid Private healthcare and private school for me So I was able to go to school With a lot of like really rich kids Even though we weren't rich Like me and my mom weren't rich But like I went to like

a really rich school and it was hard because I don't know I never felt like I fit in in school either plus I had an eating disorder and it was very visible that I had a eating disorder I mean I was 23 pounds 33 kilos sorry like that's like I don't know like 60 pounds less than that like I was I was emanciated like it was really bad and so I feel like people would look at me with like like Like everybody would stare at me And so that was pretty hard That was like high school for me It was like being alone

And people like staring at me Because I looked like I was dying Yeah How did it feel to have them stare? I think that was my motivation For getting better Is that weird? No

Like I just didn't want people to look at me Like that anymore You talking about people in school or nowadays on the internet? Oh, no, not in the internet. I look good now. Like, I'm good. I don't look like I'm going. I was just thinking that it was interesting because the statement that you made,

I wonder if it could apply now, right? Oh. That you just don't want people to look at you the way that they do. Is that how that feels? I just don't want people to look at me at all. Like, I want to go back to my small little. community of people that hung out and played video games. I like that. I don't want fame. I don't want money. I just want to be have enough money to pay my bills and have fun playing video games with my

close friends. That's all I want to do. Like I'm not asking people to like me. I'm just I just want them to stop harassing me 24-7. So this sounds to me like it feels quite different from what the way that you felt back when you had an eating disorder at school. Oh yeah. Totally. Totally. Have you ever felt the way that you do now, like before, like growing up? No, not really. Yeah. Like I, I had like moments of like bullying shortly.

Maybe like in like sixth grade when there's these two kids that like start throwing things at me. But that was easy because I could just get away from them. I can't get away from this. Yeah. That sounds like what you really want to do is just. just get away from it. Start a new life. Yes.

Just play your games with your friends and hang out and have a good time. Yeah. You know, so just to be clear, you know, I think we talk a lot about the past on this stream, and I think we learn a lot of important lessons from the past. We learn about how to relate to people and things like that. But I think, Natalia, your story is a really good example of how, like, I'm sure the past is significant, but it sounds to me like this isn't some kind of, you know, this didn't start when you were nine. I mean, I think some stuff started when you were nine. Yeah,

but I think I was able to recover. Like I, I'm my eating disorders in check. And honestly, like, I think I have my bipolar in check. I haven't done any crazy things, you know, in the past few years. I mean, yeah, I'm a little loud and crazy at times and I, you know, but it's just my personality, I think, honestly. So let's talk about, I agree. I mean, I think that this isn't, this isn't bipolar. This isn't, you know, it's not trauma from childhood. I mean, it sounds like it's pretty clear to me that you sort of get a very high amount

of hate and toxicity on a daily basis and just thinking about the mind and the way that I understand it. You don't need to go looking for another reason to feel like shit. Yeah. No, I agree. It's not like, I mean, we can check a little bit, but, you know, I think the interesting thing, I do think that you can move forward from this. And I think the main thing, it has something to do with sort of acceptance and understanding that you can't control people's perceptions. And so, I mean, I think I had already got into that point. Yeah.

I just think, like, there was a few things that happened recently. what happened that like really got my my whole barriers down well it was like like everything else been going with like corrode and stuff it's just been going like in a steady downhill and then like three days ago four no like five days ago ninja made like a snarky comment at me on Twitter and like his entire following just destroyed my socials with like hate and stuff like more than usual because he has a lot of followers and so I spent like all night just like reading really nasty stuff and then the next morning I woke up and I find out that Byron killed himself and I mean that was just really hard that was just really difficult for me to process yeah because he was like one of the OGs and wow like when I started streaming that him and Soda were like the other two wow streamers And like, I knew that he had struggle with mental health for a long time. And, you know, we hung out.

And the times that we hung out, like, he was a nice guy. He was so sweet. And he just like, I just feel so bad about it. Yeah, he was a really nice guy. It's a good guy. Yeah. Yeah, I think COVID has been, I think for years or even decades, people are going to be studying the mental health impacts of COVID.

You know, I wouldn't even be surprised that people are more hateful towards you because they're sitting at home and have nowhere to go. I think there's a lot of weird stuff going on. Like, part of me feels like I don't deserve that. Like, I don't deserve it to put myself in a position in which that's what I have to do. I completely agree with you.

Like, in a way, I feel like I should protect myself from this. What do you deserve? Both good and bad. Peace. Yeah. I think we all deserve peace. I think it's really, really sad that you're not able to find it. Yeah, I mean, I've said this a couple of times until I just don't know. I mean, we can talk about toxicity. We can talk about stress. But I just don't I don't see a problem on your end. Like, I know it's kind of weird to say, but I mean, maybe there is one. I'm just saying I don't see it. I think do you try to control things probably? I think, you know, you can think long and hard about. I'm a little bit of a control freak for sure.

Yeah. So I think that generally speaking, people who are control freaks have high trait neuroticism, which is sort of a personality characteristic from something called the five factor model. And they tend to suffer more because they kind of get bent out of shape. Yeah. You know, there are all kinds of things that we can tell you to do, like read less on social media or spend less time on social media and things like that. I can probably do that.

I should probably do that. I try very hard to steer clear. Like even though I sort of in a sense have, you know, it's completely different in my case because generally speaking, I'm lucky enough to have the opposite narrative from what it sounds like you got. So my narrative on the internet has been overwhelmingly positive, or at least from what I've seen. And so I'm lucky to have that.

And I still try to steer clear of it. Yeah. And just be careful. You never know when like it can change. Absolutely. Right. So it's going to change at some point because that's what happens. No one.

The more you get idealized, the less, the more difficult it is to. The more you are. Like every time that you're online, every time you say something, like every second you're online, you take a risk of like somebody misinterpreting it or someone saying something right. And then like it creates a lot of anxiety in me sometimes. like to the point where like I'm sometimes scared to stream because like I feel like I'm going to say something wrong

or I'm going to say something bad and it's going to bring more hate sounds like a very exhausting way to live in your head just constantly calculating yeah sounds the very opposite of like you described yourself as care free before

yeah sounds like you're very different now I miss it so much. It hurts me a lot that I can't be like that anymore. Yeah, that makes sense to me. I think out of everything that I'm hearing, it's almost, I don't know if innocence is the right word,

but I think carefree is like certainly the right word. What I'm hearing from you is that you have to fight, you're doing all these calculations in your head all the time about what you can, you can't say and what you should and shouldn't say. And I hear that you're kind of struggling to keep all this hatred at bay as best as you can. Like you're cleaning, like taking out the trash and your Instagram every morning. It just sounds exhausting. It sounds like it's really starting to affect you.

Yeah. Is there anything else I can do to help? I don't think so. I mean, this is really helpful, I think, in a way. Also, because I'm not really feeling like I did very much. I received some empathy which is nice It is nice It's really really not to be underestimated

Yeah So I like talking to people who are nice So that was nice Talking to you was nice Good I'm glad I'm happy to be A part of your public life

That is not filled with toxicity and hatred but I think it's also kind of sad that conversations like this or interactions like this are not the norm for you I think actually it's tragic that the norm for you has changed so drastically and what you have to deal with sounds it sounds fucking awful that's all I've got to be honest I can't imagine I've dealt with a lot of people who have dealt with a lot of hatred but honestly this sounds the worst if that means anything to you

Yeah. I know. People always message me and tell me like, you're so strong, you're so strong. And like, I might appear really strong. But like, it's so much work. Yeah. So I- A lot of work. Absolutely. So I think, you know, people call me strong as well. And, you know, I'm happy people feel that way. But I don't feel strong. Yeah. It's it's hard to remember that it's like, it ain't easy being strong. And you know, I feel like the fact that other people tell you you're strong makes you feel like you have to be more strong. Sure. Because those people are telling you that you have to be strong. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I don't know if it's a good thing, actually. Because then I tried for so long not to appear weak. And I think I just had a point. Like, just had a breakdown. Yeah. I didn't, I don't think I showed like my vulnerability for a long time. because I was trying to appear strong.

So, Natalia, I think there are some important lessons to be learned here. I feel like for some reason now is not the time to really go into them. But the first is to be careful about the expectations that you set for yourself. Because essentially what I'm hearing from you first and foremost is that this is a problem of expectation. It's a problem of what people expect from you. It's a problem of expectations that you can't get away from because they interpret everything through their lens. And you have to be careful because I think at some point, I mean, it's got to be affecting you in terms of the way that you think about yourself.

And so be careful about, you know, even in a weird way, I'm not saying that like it doesn't sound like you're starting to believe them, which is really good and really healthy. And at the same time, you may overcompensate based on that hatred and become something that you actually shouldn't be, which is a little bit too careful. And I think that you're going to be. And I think that there is reason to be a little bit less care, I mean, a little bit less carefree. And at the same time, I think it would be, it would make me really sad if you started becoming someone who was over, be careful. That if you couldn't let yourself cut loose from time to time, because you are a little bit on

the edge, you are a little bit funny, you can say things that are a little bit off color. And I think those actually make you a wonderful person too. I definitely don't think that you should, you know, you've got to be careful with the alcohol. and you should be careful with your pets depending on what actually happened. But I mean, it sounds to me like, you know, you do care about your pets a lot. And, and I mean, I don't know.

I'm alleging to cats and I have three. Like, they make me very sick. I wouldn't have them if I didn't love them. Yeah. And, you know, I think it's kind of sad if you have to be, I mean, in the sense, if they make you be someone who's like overly careful and doesn't open their mouth, like that's not good.

right sure maybe it'll reduce the hate but I think the really challenging road for you to walk is like not to try to reduce the hate because that's not something you can control and this comes back to your revelation from the toilet yeah like you have to live a life where not so much like you shouldn't do things

that foster hate or give them ammo you have to be like careful about that but at the same time you know you're not going to be able to control whether they hate you because they hate you and can you find some piece of yourself and it sounds like you can and really find Natalia like who you are on the inside and recognize that who they hate is alinity and isn't Natalia. Even then it sounds like I mean I don't I don't think but I have to like constantly remind

myself all those things you know. Yeah so that's where where I think we can change a little bit because when you say constantly remind yourself that sounds like a conscious process that you're exerting in the top of your mind pushing down on certain feelings. Whereas I think what would be cool is if you instead of constant reminders, you felt on the inside and kind of bubbled up some sense of like who you are. That these people aren't accurate that this is coming from them. Yeah, I think I think this comes from like, I have a very like weird sense of the world, I guess. This is going to sound really stupid.

But like, I believe. that every person that exists is like part of me as well. And so that has good and bad things. Sure. Because it helps me treat everybody with kindness, but it also makes it so that everybody's opinions matter in a way to me. Sure. You know?

And that is something that is really difficult for me to, make peace with? Yeah, that's hard. I don't think that's stupid at all. In fact, there's a Sanskrit phrase that actually encapsulates that sentiment. And that is Tatvam Asi.

So there are four Sanskrit sentences that are called sort of the great sentences, which are kind of the conclusions that all these like enlightened yogis came to, and that's one of them. So I don't think it's stupid at all. And what Thatvamasi is literally translated is, I am that, or that, thou art that, that you and me are actually the same thing. Yeah.

And I agree with that. And it makes it so difficult for me to receive hate from people that I'm trying to treat us being equal to myself. Yeah. Yeah, so I feel like if I had, if I had a huge ego and I was able to be like, oh, I'm better than everybody else. Their opinions don't matter. I think it'd be easier for me to deal with the hate. But yeah, I think you're right. I think also that you've stumbled upon another important thing, which is that ego protects us from other people.

And the fact that you're, it sounds like you're not very egotistical, which in turn means that you connect with them more deeply, which in turn means that you bear more pain, which is difficult. What are you feeling right now? I'm just feeling sad. Because sometimes I feel like my only choice to not let things affect me is to maybe change the way how I view the world. I think that'll help, but I don't think it's the right move. I don't think so either. Like I don't, I love the way that I view the world and I don't know what to do. Yeah, sometimes I have answers for people, Natalia.

I don't have answers for you yet. I understand that. But I do have some. So the first thing is that I have faith in you. And I don't think that you need to tank your life to get away from it. At the same time, if you feel like you do have to quit streaming, want to change your name, and move to even a further remote part of Saskatchewan, then go for it. I wouldn't blame you.

At the same time, I think that what I've come to observe time and again is that I, that I think you say that you don't know what to do. I say I don't know what you should do. And at the same time, the cool thing is that we're doing something right now. And I wouldn't be surprised if you woke up tomorrow morning and you felt better in some way or had some kind of answer. So let me say this very clearly. A lot of times we're stuck in life and we don't know what to do. And the thing is, like we think, okay, I have to figure out what to do. Like we have to figure out a plan to move from like A to Z. You don't have to figure out a plan from A to Z. All you have to figure out is like A to B. And you don't know where Z is. You don't know how to get there. But in your case,

what I would strongly encourage you do is like, I don't know if you're streaming today or what, but you know, spend some time outside because it sounds like it's a nice day because it's summer and you're pretty far and birth, it sounds like. So spend some time outside, spend some times with your animals. I have been doing that a lot. Good. I haven't streamed since like like Thursday last week Yeah so I think give yourself some time and some space And recognize that you're actually doing a lot already And that that will start to have effects and positive effects

And so you don't have to we don't have to figure out what to do All we have to figure out is like how are you going to what are you going to do over the next day And how are you going to feel over the next day And I wouldn't be surprised if you start to feel better I think you should reach out to your psychiatrist and let them know that you're struggling. That's what they're there for. Yeah. And then the last thing is that, you know, I think it's like figuring out what to do is going to be an ongoing journey, basically.

And there's a part of me that sort of says, like, don't give up streaming because I think, I think. So here's the other thing that I don't think people realize. Like, you know, you're creating something for a lot of people. I don't know what that is. but you're you're resonating with people it sounds like you're a pretty popular streamer so you know like something is like you're doing something that like is connecting with other human beings you say you feel connected to other people dathabamasi call it whatever you want to and I think that you're doing that and it sounds like that's what your karma that's your

that's what your duty that's what your circumstances have allowed you to do so I think you should continue doing that. doing that. Yeah, so if you like playing games and being a little bit, you know, off color and funny, and sometimes you speak out of turn, like, I hope that you can get to a place where you can actually be like a little bit more of the person that you really are. And I get that I think it's, you know, you're going to get hate for it. But sometimes when people hate you, if you start to like, crumble a little bit, like that actually eggs them on more. Well, that's what I thought.

That's what I thought, you know, that if I showed people that it was hurting me, that it would make it happen more. And that's why for two years I remained super strong and pretended like nothing affected me. And I think it actually made people angrier. Yep. Yeah. So what I'm saying is not to pretend like it doesn't affect you, but to actually think a little bit about going back to the person that you used to be. right and going back i'm not saying you know drink and do things no i don't like the person i used to be like i think i i think i i like the qualities

and my personality of yeah you know like my dark humor and the fun and stuff and i still have that i haven't lost that good good um i just i just have to be more careful um i think there's like a healthy amount of anxiety i can have in order to ensure that i don't say anything out of line, just not letting that, because anxiety serves a good purpose. Just not allowing that anxiety to overtake me into getting in my head and feeling like I can't speak or do things. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, I think part of the reason that I don't know how to guide you is because

I think you understand a lot of what I teach, actually. And one of the big messages that. Yeah. And so I think you're. spirituality and stuff, your yoga and your meditation seems to be, your self-reflection seems to be paying off. And so let me leave you with one or two last sentiments. And if I can, I'm going to try to do the thing where I try to give people hope. Can I try to give, do you have hope? A little bit. Okay. Let me try to, let me try to feed that flame just a tiny amount. Okay.

So, Natalia, I recognize that you've been struggling for a while and you're dealing with a lot of hatred, but I think it's actually quite amazing that you are the person that you are. And what I mean by that is that I think you're growing in ways that are quite profound. And I think a lot of what you're saying and discovering is actually making you like a better person. And I think it's making you into the person that the world needs you to be. Because here's the thing. When it comes to people expressing toxicity towards Twitch thoughts, is that right? Yeah.

You're not the only one, right? You're not the only person that people hate. Sure, they hate you the most. It sounds like. But you're certainly not the only woman out there who's getting hate. And it's not even just women, right? It's like people hate all kinds of things. And they just go like really, really hard on people.

Like, I don't know why they hate so much, but they hate so much. And I think that you are actually making the world a better place by, you know, going through this yourself and sort of, learning from it, growing from it. And I think oftentimes we don't realize that when we're struggling, the world is sort of turning us into the person that it needs. And, you know, I think the interesting thing is that people see like Dr. K, but they don't see like Aalok at the age. How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

Okay, never mind. They're not doing. So, you know, I'm assuming you're young. But, and I'm making assumptions that. I'm older than you are. I'm 32. Okay. So I...

How old are you? I'm 37. Okay. So the story doesn't quite apply. Well, actually, that actually makes sense because that's why I think I don't need to help you as much because I think you've grown a lot. So... Oh, yeah. Like, if I was like in my 20s, it's a completely different story.

Yeah. And I think a lot of times as we're going through the shit, we don't realize what the shit is going to turn us into after a while. And what everyone sees in terms of like strength is like the finished product. They don't see the process. And I think as long as you, I see you sewing a lot of positive karma, karma. So I see you doing a lot of things for yourself to help yourself out. And it is my belief that if you continue doing those things, you're going to end up in a good

place. that you've been on a journey of like self-reflection and growth and stick with it. Because as someone who I guess is on the other side who's kind of come out the other end of the tunnel, I think you're actually quite close, hopefully. You know, I mean, hopefully suicide doesn't win. But I think, I mean, because like I'm saying, I don't really see a whole lot to help you with Natalia. And I think that's because, I mean, you do so many things that are difficult to do. You walk the line between acknowledging that you've done wrong and also thinking you're a good

person. That nuance, which you hold, is so difficult for so many people. If you think about our community, they think they're pieces of shit and they do everything wrong. Right. Any mistake they make reflects on their view what the internet, you know how the internet has a narrative about you? So much of our community has a narrative about themselves. And they treat themselves the way that the internet treats you. And no matter what they do, they hate themselves. They can't do anything right. I think like for the first like 20 years of my life I had to deal with like learning to love myself. And I think maybe that was preparing me for this moment.

Absolutely. And so, you know, I think you hopefully you're prepared and, you know, whatever you end up doing, you know, you're kind of on behind you. I mean, not whenever. I don't want you to kill yourself. You know, it goes to your psychiatrist. But like, I think if you decide that you need to take a break from streaming or streaming isn't for you, you know, I wouldn't blame you. And at the same time, I think that sometimes amidst all of the hate, it's very, very difficult to see the good that you're doing. And sometimes even amongst all of the good, it can be just as hard to see the damage that you're doing.

So that's something that we think a lot about. You know, I think a lot about whether what we do is ethical or helps people or what seems like the answer is yes. But just because the world sends you hate doesn't mean that you're doing a bad job. And if that's true, the opposite is also true that just because the world sends you lots of love doesn't mean that you're doing a good job. And at the end of the day, you have to reflect and find that answer for yourself. You can't trust them. Right? Yeah, it makes sense.

And I think you're going to be, I mean, I hope you're going to be okay. And I think that you're doing what needs to be done by having this conversation, by thinking about it, by reflecting. And I also think that a lot of what you need is not going to come. It's not something that you can do. It's something that we as a community have to help you with, which is exploring the nature of hatred and toxicity and trying to get underneath that. Because there is just no way, Natalia, I don't know how else to say this. There is no way that you have done anything.

That there's random people on the internet who you've never met and who've never met you. And for them to hate you so much has nothing to fucking do with you. has to do with them. Like, does that make sense? Like, you're allowed to hate people who, like, you know, steal your car. Yeah, there's people I dislike, but I don't go around, like, hating on them. Right. So, like, that amount of hatred, like, it just doesn't make any rational sense for you to just pick a random person on the internet and decide that, like, you're going to spend day in and day out trying to make that person kill themselves.

I think, like, for example, in my case, though, it has to do with people who follow. certain like influencers and then that influencer has a problem with me and so they attack me because of the problem that I have with a person that they follow. Yeah, but still, that still has nothing to do with you, right? Because like if there are people who are extensions of an influencer's will, that's still a problem for that person. Like, why do you, why are you directing your thoughts and beliefs based on a particular person, myself included. No, I understand that. But what I'm trying to say is there are, like, people that follow certain others.

Like, for example, Kim Star. Kim Star has a large, large following. And he likes to attack people. And his followers go and attack people. So I do think that a problem, I'm not saying, like, in video game hate, but in the problem that I'm facing myself has to do with him having. a platform in which he is allowed to hate people. And not just me.

Like he like said that some guy was a pedophile and like he wasn't. And it was just like horrible for him. He like lost his job. Like I don't know the whole story, but it's really sad one. And I just don't think that a person should be allowed to say things without having any proof, you know? Yeah. I mean, that makes sense to me.

I think it's that that also is sort of a societal problem. Like I think this kind of goes back to like it's not on you though, right? It's not that you're doing something wrong. It's that I mean, I think we've got to figure out. I mean, I've made mistakes. I have made mistakes, but I haven't killed anybody, you know? Yeah. Like I think like murders don't get the amount of hate I get.

Yeah. Yeah. Sounds. It's rough. Yeah. So listen. Any, any thoughts that kind of or questions before we sort of, I was kind of thinking about winding down. We've been at it for about an hour and a half, even a little bit longer.

Yeah, like two hours almost. Um, no, I, I feel better. I think like the, the whole idea, actually. Yeah, the whole idea that, like, I'm still going to cry, but the whole idea that I just can't control, like, the narrative, you know, no matter what I do. I think it gives me a sense of, maybe, like, I don't have to worry about it as much. Because, like, if I can't control it, then, like, I, like, I can't do anything about it. So I think it's just maybe, going to be like not exposing myself to that hate as much as I can. I'm like trying to protect myself. So I don't have to treat those things as much.

And I do have some measures in place a lot. I don't have to read those things. So yeah, I think I'll be working on that. Good. So Natalia, just to kind of clarify a little bit, I don't think you can control the narrative. But what I would say is that so the way I would frame it is that you can't control how they receive what you do, but you can absolutely control what you do. Yeah, but whatever you do, it's going to get misinterpreted.

Like, whatever I do, it's going to get misinterpreted. I already know that, yeah. Yeah. And so just be careful because sometimes people take that. I'm not getting the sense from you license to do whatever the fuck they want. Right? Because if people are, I'm not getting that from you, but I was just for the people watching. Like, you know, I think it's an important distinction to make that you're not going to, you know, run around hitting people and things like that.

but to understand that fundamentally as a human being, you're in control of your actions, but not the consequences of your actions. And the reason that I have hope for you, Natalia, is because I think at the end of the day, the way that you are acting day to day is not correlating with what you receive. The fact that you're being spiritual, the fact that you're reflecting on what you do, the fact that you're being thoughtful about what you say, I think all of those are seeds that you've planted, which are going to bear fruit months from now or even years from now.

The person that you're becoming is the person that you're going to be with for the rest of your life. And that's the person I can get behind. I think what you're dealing with now is the bitter fruits of seeds that you sowed many years ago. Yeah. And the hardest period of time is when you're reaping your bad fruit and sowing your good seeds. And it can feel like you really, really want to give up. But in my overwhelming experience, if you stick through it and you do the right thing, that starts to turn the tide. And I really do hope that that tide turns for you.

It looks like you're getting emotional again. Okay. Yeah. So sometimes I teach people how to meditate. I think if you're feeling emotional, we don't, what do you feel like doing? Do you want to meditate or not meditate? No, I just, I cry when like a person says something that I believe is true. and then it makes me sad about myself.

But I'm not crying because I'm feeling sad. I'm crying because I relate with what you just said. Yep, that's very helpful. So you know, just so you know, it's just the way my emotions work, I guess. Yeah, that's a very healthy way for them to work, Natalia. Okay. So what do you think? You want to meditate a little bit?

What do you? I have to use the bathroom. Okay, go use the bathroom. Okay. Revelation number two, Inc. Let's see what she comes back with this. Okay, so I got to think about what kind of meditation you've got to teach. I'm feeling a lot better, actually.

Good. Yeah. So if you wanted, so tell me, guide me a little bit. I teach different kinds of meditations depending on what people's goals are. And in your case, I see a couple of different options. One is something that's a little bit more spiritual and another is like something. I don't think that's a little bit more emotional. Like, what are you looking to gain from meditation?

Oh, I don't want to get more emotional. I'm already so emotional. So you want to be like less emotional? Like control your emotions? I just want to be calm. Okay, so I'll give you a choice. I can teach you a technique that will help you calm yourself down a little bit. Or I can teach you a technique that will help you sort of more on a sort of

more spiritual level, like thinking about your connectedness to other people and that kind of shit. What do you prefer? No, let's do the first one. I'm already really connected to people. Okay, great. Awesome. So let's start by sitting up straight. And now I have to think about which one to do. How clogged is your nose? Not that much. Okay. So, let me blow it. Okay, I'm going to teach you something called Try phasic breathing. Okay.

Okay. So what we're going to do is actually, so there's cool thing about the mind is that it's very connected to the breath. And depending on how we breathe, it sort of creates certain emotions. And some emotions actually create certain breath patterns. So if someone's like scared, they'll breathe like, right? That's the breath pattern of fear. Breath pattern of anger is a little bit different. So if we actually adjust our breathing, and we kind of know this because we'll tell people to take deep breaths.

And if they take deep breaths, they kind of calm down. So how does that work? We're not really sure. Whatever. But there are particular breath patterns that I'm going to teach you that hopefully will kind of calm you down. Okay. Or we'll help you sort of process or separate yourself from your emotions. And do you know how to belly breathe or abdominally breathe?

Like breathe with your stomach instead of your chest? Okay. Yeah. So take a deep breath. then? Excellent. And then out? Very good. Beautiful. Okay. So what we're going to do is try phasic breathing. So the first phase is going to be be bella breathing. So we're going to do three breaths with our, with our bell. So for those of y'all who are watching, so what we want to do is on the inhalation, if you guys notice, Natalia's stomach is going to come out as she breathes in. Beautiful. Do you

see that? And then as you exhale, the stomach goes back in. It's great because you have those little things on your pants so you can see them move. Good. Beautiful. Are you seeing that? Okay. Good. And now, Natalia, what I want you to do is when you take a breath in with your stomach, when you're at full breath, pause for a second and then breathe in a little bit more and then expand your chest. So do belly first and then chest. What's hard? It is hard. It's supposed to be. Okay. Okay. So, Start with just the belly. Okay. Just like you were doing. And now incorporate the chest.

There, you feel that little bit more and then out. Slowly. Good. Let's do three of those. Breathe in with the belly. Expand the chest. And then out. Expand the belly.

What? No, it's just, I feel it immediately. Yep. Keep going. Focus. I have a very hyperactive bite. I know. That's okay. That's why we're going to breathe. Good. So notice that humor. Notice it within yourself. Good. And return to the breath. Beautiful, Natalia, just like you did. Good. Good. Good. So now we can even see it. I'm going to comment about what we're seeing. And I want you to listen to what I'm saying. Notice that what I'm saying is going to try to create a reaction in your mind and focus on the breath. So we can see there's a slight smile. It's starting to calm down. As we talk about Natalia, the smile may increase. She may feel more self-conscious.

Just listen to the word. See, there's the humor. Good. So now she cracks and now return to the breath. Pretend for a moment that I'm not talking about you. Just listen to the sound of my voice and read. In with the belly, expand the chest, and then out. So we can see with the exhalation, calmness returning to the face, there's a pleasant, neutral, slight positive expression.

Breathe again. Now, Natalia, I want you to try to break apart the abdomen and the chest. So do the belly first and then the chest. Belly first, slowly. Good. Now add the chest. Good. And now out.

Now we're going to do phase three, okay? So when belly is full and chest is full, then I want you to open your eyes for a second. Lift up your shoulders like this and breathe just a tiny bit more. You're going to get 5%. I can't Yes, you can What do you mean you can't This reminds me of when do you

How do you say like the sound salutations Where you breathe up Yeah All the way And then you can't breathe anymore I just hit a point where I can't Yes, yes, yes, yes We'll get you there

Sun salutation is actually harder when you do that But that's okay Okay, we'll get you. Try it If you can't do it, no big deal, okay? So eyes closed So breathe in, belly, chest, and I lift up the shoulders just a tiny mouth. Do you get anything? And then out.

That's all you need. You don't even need to lift them up quite that much. So abdomen, slow, chest, and then slight raise of the shoulders. Just a tiny bit more, and then out. I don't very good at this. I don't know where you get that idea, but. we're just going to keep going. Okay, set that aside.

That's a judgment about yourself. It's an expectation. Okay. Ignore it. Folks, eyes closed. Back straight. You're having thoughts, so be it. Feeling embarrassment, so be it.

You're not good at this? It feels hard. I meditate all the time by myself, but it's difficult. Yeah, good. In the scenario. It's very hard. Yeah. Yeah.

So let's try one more time. I know there's people watching and you're talking, you know. Okay. So maybe what we're going to do is just close your eyes and I'm going to shut the fuck up. Yeah. We're going to just let you meditate. I love it. Okay.

Go ahead and finish the round that you're on. Surprised me. Huh? You surprised me. No, it's okay. I'm good. Good. Yeah, I'm feeling good.

Strong work today. Yeah. That was good. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me. Thank you. for coming on and and sharing with everyone. Yeah. I like that project that you're in.

Of figuring out, you know, the whole hate thing and stuff. If I can help you with it at all, let me know. You know, honestly, we're trying to figure it out. But my first thought is that if you want to send some of your haters our way, like, I'd love to talk to them. I'm serious. Okay. I just don't know if my haters would do something. something that how about I give you their Twitter account? Yeah, we're going to

like them. We're going to have to figure that out. Yeah, because if I tell them to go to you, they're not going to do that, right? But if you reach out to them, like I get a lot of hateful Twitter them, so I can just send you their Twitter profiles and you can contact them. So I have to be a little bit careful because I'm kind of a boomer and sometimes I get into situations that are not good for me. So let me talk to my staff about how to actually do something about this because we want to do this. We want to talk to haters at some point because I think we have to, right, to understand what's in their mind. Yeah.

And at the same time, I don't want you to send all of your haters our way because you're pretty good at surviving the hate and I'm still new at it. So I don't know if I can handle it yet. I think they hate me. I don't think they hate everybody. I don't know, but if I'm friendly towards you, maybe I'm putting a target on my back. Oh, noes. Anyway, we'll sort it out. We'll reach out to you soon.

I think we really do have to figure this out. Okay. All right. Yeah, no, count on me for whatever. And I'm going to say something about you after I hang up with you that I want you to watch on the Vod tomorrow. Is that okay? I want you to just think about this for a second. But I'm going to comment a little bit about this meditation technique.

I'm going to teach the rest of Twitch, but I don't want you to watch it right now. Is that okay? Oh, yeah. I want you to just think for a second. Think for a day and then you can watch it tomorrow. Okay, that's good. All right. All right, take care.

You too. Thanks. Good luck with everything. Okay, bye. Okay. So no spoiler, you know. All right. So here's the thing to understand.

So this technique is going to be really important for her because she was trying to figure out how to block out. Like, she was like, people are watching and you're, talking and that's hard. Absolutely. That's why you need to do this technique because if you can learn how to block out for just a few moments, everyone watching and me talking to you, that's what she needs. She needs a place in her mind where she can escape. What she wants is escape. And like even for 15 minutes a day, if she can escape from everyone watching, because she takes the people that are watching

with her in her mind. I don't know if you guys, like, if that makes sense, but the Twitter DMs follow her throughout the day, right? Like, they go with her. They, like, infect her mind and they, like, propagate in her thoughts. And even with all of that simulation, she's really got to do this kind of technique because she needs to give her space.

Escaping is not about changing her circumstances, although that certainly helps. She needs to escape by doing that, by all means. But the really crazy thing is that you can escape from all of that stuff right here. And she can escape from all of the hatred in her own mind through like dedication and practice. And she's well on that journey already, to be honest.

It's really cool. And maybe streaming isn't for her? Absolutely. Maybe it's not for her. That's a decision she's got to make on her own. But if we can equip her with a tool that if she decides that she does love it, which it sounds like she does,

then we want to help her do what she loves. And if we can protect her a little bit from the hatred by giving her a space in her mind to ignore my words and ignore that everyone's watching, because that's what she's trying to do. Let's help her do it. And hopefully it'll help. Okay. So, okay. So.