HealthyGamerGG - Talking with @Trainwreckstv: Are Streamers Narcissists?

Episode Date: October 31, 2020

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How you doing, man? Good. I woke up with these two lines under my eyes. I can't tell if they're wrinkles or I slept wrong. Take a look at these things. You see that? Am I right eye? What?

You mean the bagginess under the right eye? Yeah, the two wrinkles. You guys can't see where I'm poached. Here. Let me see it. Can you all see? This? You know, look at these things.

Are these wrinkles? Like, am I permanently going to have these? No, not necessarily. So bagginess under the eye could be actually assigned. of like inflammation, right? So if you've got allergies, for example, I mean, it could be a wrinkle, but usually that looks like your eyes are puffy. Yeah, that just, it just happened this morning. I woke up and it was there. Do you have allergies? Yeah. Yeah, I do. Are they bad at this time of year? Like usually cedar fever, you're in Austin, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So cedar fever can get bad

during this time of year. Do you have, are your allergies active? Uh, I don't know. Okay. Are they like telltale signs? Yeah. So like stuffy nose, you know, post nasal drip, stuff in your throat, things like that. No, I, but I mean, yeah. I wouldn't, I wouldn't worry too much about it, train. But if you're really concerned and it persists, you can always go see a doctor. Well, you know, I have, look at this. this. Wait, can you see it? No, you can't. Oh, look, yeah. Look how many gray hairs I have. The gray hairs are

coming in. Do you see this? This is insane. I have so many gray hairs. Now I have two wrinkles below my right eye. I think I'm, I'm getting old. And how do you feel about that? Well, the hair part I kind of like. I'm kind of, I think I look good. Yeah. makes you look distinguished. Yeah, I think in a gray. Mature. Yeah, it would, ooh, I love mature. Not mature, mature.

I like that. That could be, oh my God. I can make a brand of clothing and make it more expensive and do like, you know, the ape gang merch, mature and put an apostrophe on one of the letters. Yeah. You feel me on that? Yeah, I feel it. That's huge.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. But yeah, the gray hair, I can look great. People with black hair. or dark hair, call it mature. And once you start turning gray, it's mature. Mature. Mature, couture.

Yeah, there you go, man. There it is. Look at the ideas flowing. Looks like the mind's still sharp. Yeah, maybe. I guess we'll see. I just kind of, uh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Hopefully, yeah. I think the eye thing's going to go away. I think I just slept wrong. Yeah. I'm pretty sure. Like, I think I, I think I slept and that's actually an imprint. of like maybe my sheets wrinkles.

I don't know, but maybe not. No, I don't think it's sheets wrinkles. I think it's more likely to be like some low level of inflammation or puffiness. It looks like puffiness to me more than anything else. Yeah, my dad gets that puffiness stuff. So that could be what it is. Yeah. Yeah.

So, train, is there something in particular you want to talk about today? I mean, I know we've had a couple of conversations. Yeah, I think this is like the, in a way, I guess this may come off. No, I don't know. Say it, bro. Yeah. Perfect.

Yeah, I think this is like the memoirs of Trainwrecks TV, you know? We had story one, story two, never on day three, you know. And one day it'll be day 100, you know, and, and, you know, like all human beings, when, you know, yeah, let's, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

Yeah, go ahead. me about so so tell me about what you know where did we kind of leave off i know we'd sort of started talking about your family a little bit but what are we going to discuss in in day three um we could i think i think we're going to get into the uh i think we're going to get into the juicy i think oh yeah i think we're going to start into the i think we were going to get deeper i think you had asked last time at the end for me to get into the like the bullying of school and then what led to drug use and then that's something I think that's where we left off right so yeah I think I think I think so too I wasn't sure exactly where we were going but I remember that we had sort of been

kind of like a little bit we'd done an overview and then we were going to kind of tunnel down so can you tell me about the bullying? Well, before we go there, we're to kind of open the, you know, you know, if we just go into it right now, I feel like it's going to be this very cold thing. First, I got to ask you, how have you been? I've been doing well, man. I think, so I like the weather. Same. You know, so I really like, I took like an hour-long walk last night. And it was just really nice um i think personally you know it's interesting so i i think we've done a lot of good things and yet i find myself um noticing a lot of problems in what we do so and i mean i think this is good it's all progress but i i feel pretty excited actually because i'm finally getting to do some of

the things that i really wanted to do um and what i mean by that is when you know when i when we started streaming on Twitch. So I started working with Rando gamers and then really enjoyed that and then started to notice themes. Right. So, okay, these guys are like, they think they're all, they all think they're lazy, but they're actually not lazy. So that's like a good example of one. Everyone thinks they lack motivation, but they don't lack motivation. It's just plugged up and it can't shine through. Yeah. I think a lot can actually apply to that. I think, uh, I think there's a lot of things that the general public kind of diagnoses streamers with, not realizing that it's not actually the case.

It's not like a result of who they are. It's more of a result of the streaming. And if you mix the streaming in with any individual, it'll happen to anybody even the most. Right. So a good example of that would be, I think for some reason, everybody is a sociopathic narcissist on Twitch. And I can maybe see to some certain degree, maybe, but I don't think that's the case. But for some reason, like the general viewer base likes to assert that, that like diagnosis onto like every streamer. Does that make any sense?

And I've never, I mean, I understand it because I can see which ones might be. But the majority that they diagnose, I don't think are at all. Why do you think, yeah, why do you think they think that? Oh, they say it. I know, but why do you think they say that? Why do you think they think that? What do they see that causes them or what drives them to come to that conclusion? I think they see the, so I think they see like a generalized symptom,

but they don't realize that it, you know, it's kind of like, you know, if you get a, let's say you get a sinus infection, right? and you're getting like a tightening in your chest congestion, right? And you decide to go to WebMD and you type in chest tightness and congestion. And then, you know, three results. One says sinus infection. And then two results say cancer. And then the other one says whatever the fuck, right?

Like for some reason people want to believe the more extreme ones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that, right? So I think it's just like they see like a generalized symptom and they just automatically attribute it to what's the symptom that they see

I think it's a good it's a really I think it's a frankly sophisticated approach I think oftentimes we confuse a symptom with a diagnosis and so I'm with you that I don't think that the majority of streamers are sociopathic narcissists

oh not at all I can I can see how by virtue of being a public figure you exhibit some of the signs that narcissists would exhibit. Right? Like there would be some symptoms about, you know, things like, I mean, self-promotion and, like, building a brand is, like, actually part of your job, which can appear a lot like narcissism, for example. Yes. But what do you think it is that they see that makes them think that it's like, like narcissistic?

Like, what's the symptom? That a lot, what's the symptom that makes them a sign? that diagnosis? I think the main symptom that people confuse for narcissism mainly is confidence. I think there is a huge, huge, huge lack of confidence amongst the general, like, viewer that watches Twitch. And I think as a gamer, they have, they've set some sort of, some sort of thing that every gamer needs to be.

And if any gamer passes that threshold of confidence and they have to be a, narcissistic sociopath. But I think they fail to like realize that what you see, you know, the confidence that you may see when they're in their environment of streaming or gaming, you can't assume that that's their everyday state or every second state, right? Like does that make any sense? Yeah. I think people failed. Oh, yeah.

Go ahead. Yeah. No, go for it. Finish your thought. I think people, I think people fail to consider like what happens off stream, right? like in that confidence, in order to have true confidence in my opinion, you have to have a level of awareness of your own insecurities. You have to understand that they're going to be there always and that they're that they're there and everyone has them. And I think that that's a big portion

or that's part that's a big part of the formula to get to a level of confidence. It's it's it's accepting your insecurities and knowing that they're there and kind of just making peace with them but I think a lot of people that are more like inexperienced, they think confidence is not having any insecurities, which is just wrong, in my opinion. So does that like any sense? Yeah, sort of. I think, I find myself kind of being curious about your personal experience as opposed to abstractions. So when you say, like, they don't see what happens off stream, right? So you're, let me just lay out what I understand.

Okay. from what you're saying. So you're saying that a lot of times people judge streamers for being sociopathic narcissists, fair enough. That the narcissism, why do they think that? It's because they see something like confidence and they kind of like confuse confidence in narcissism. And that streamers don't, I mean, the audience doesn't really account for what happens off stream in the streamer's life,

which I completely understand. but what I'm curious about is like what happens offstream that as it relates to this bucket of like narcissism and confidence. I think the same thing that, well, not the same exact thing, but just relative to each person's life, I think similar of things that are happening in every viewer's lives that they think the streamer doesn't see, right? I think the streamer's life is kind of like how we view an actor's life or a sports player's life or just these Instagram pictures of the happiest couple's lives. I think a lot of people

make the mistake and they see this loved streamer that's loved by many and that's making so much money and, you know, talking with such confidence, but they fail to think about what's, you know, all the intricacies and all the shit that's like they're, what I'm trying to say is everyone's the same. Like all of us have our time where we're going off stream. We're doubting ourselves. We're thinking, did we make the right decision? Did we not make the right decision? did I do this well? Did I not do this well? Right. And that people don't realize that when you're on camera sometimes, you have to be strong for the crew, for the community, right? But people mistaken that. It's like they haven't thought far enough to realize, okay, let's say he comes on

and he acts or and he is insecure and doubting and this and this and that, right? Now, the only people that that would make happy are the ones that want to see you fail and need to see you in that state. So you can't ever, you can't ever cater to that. Because those people, the fact they want to see you in that state, that's a reflection of their own insecurity, right? They need to see you there or below in order for themselves to feel better. So they're not there for the caring of you. They're there to find some sort of short-term cure for themselves. And then you have the other factor. You need to be strong for those of, for the ones that are weak, right? And then those ones, you're strong. But then you give this other effect off that you're coming off as everything's great and,

you know, blah, blah, blah. Does that make any sense? It's a lose, lose. Sure. But I think one of them is the greater and the other, I don't know. Does that make any sense? Yeah. I think that the reason that it's a lose, lose is because at the end of the day, you're being false.

Yeah. And I think a lot of people, you know, I agree with you. So the question that I have trained is like, why do you have to be strong for someone and weak if that's not really what you are. You're almost implying that, you know, strength is a mask that you put on for your audience. Why can't you be weak? You can be, but there's a time and place. Okay. I mean, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Okay. You may out here. Okay. So the way I go about it is a little different, I think. I just kind of wear my like, yeah, I kind of just wore my emotions on my sleeve in a way, kind of.

I'm a little closed off, but I don't know, actually. But I definitely show like for me, like I was talking about like what I see generally. For me, for my stream, I think I, you know, when I'm feeling sad or down or whatever, I think I'm pretty open with my chat and they know when I'm, you know, in that mood. When I'm feeling good, I feel good, right? I think I'm more so referring to this is why I say on my stream don't put me out a pedestal I'm just like you right

I try to I try to give that off as much as I can I think the main reason like I think what I'm trying to say is the main reason I think that those things that we're talking about come across and everyone labels every streamers that because they fail to realize that we're just like them we make the same mistakes you know we shit like them we fart like them we have our disgusting habits like them We have our good habits like them.

We last two seconds in bed like them some days. We last long some days. Some days we have no sex at all. Some days we do have sex. Some days we're just as lonely, right? I think people like attribute wrong things to people just because they have fame or money, right? Obviously not to the level of like actors and stuff, but this is like more like a C level C class. What does that make any sense?

Yes. What I'm trying to say is, oh, go ahead. What is it like to be, what I'm hearing you basically say is that they don't judge you fairly. Oh, well, for me it's content. I just, you know. What do you mean content? You know, I have a couple of roast sessions. Well, what, what, I didn't quite follow you there, but let me try to reiterate.

Yeah, go ahead. So what I, what I'm hearing you say is that, you know, you guys get judged as streamers for being sociopathic narcissists. And the problem is that people don't see the rest of you, right? And that you guys are just like everyone else, but you get judged in a different way. That you shit, you finish in bed fast some days, slow some days, you're lonely some days, you're not lonely other days. Completely get it, right? And you say, don't put up on a pedestal. And yet what I'm hearing you say is that, you know, despite you sending that message, people do treat you different, right?

They do put you on a pedestal. Or they put you under their crosshairs, right? That they project their insecurities on you and things like that. That's kind of what I'm hearing. Well, to be fair, in a way, there are some people. So the pedestal thing is just what I do. I do the pedestal thing, to be fair, I don't think anybody really follow. I think people want to be put on a pedestal, right?

So that's kind of something I do in my stream. I say don't put me in a pedestal. But I think others, they want the benefits of the pedestal. but then when it comes to the taking responsibility of the other half of being put on a pedestal, they don't want that part. I don't want either of them because I know if I don't want the bad parts, I can't have the good parts, right? And if I want the good parts, I have to accept the bad parts. So I just say, listen, don't put me on a pedestal.

I'm just like you. I'm going to make a mistake. Next week I might say some shit that might cancel all of us. You know, don't think I'm this PG-13 figure that is some sort of robotic fucking, you know, inhumane thing. I'm not, right? So that's me. I think a lot of people want to grab the good and then not have the bad of the pedestal part.

So that's on them. But I think that's one of the reasons. I think that needs. So it's not just a viewer thing. It's a both thing. Streamers kind of take that. They encourage it. Yeah.

And they don't push back. Does that make sense? They don't realize that if you don't want to take responsibility for the bad parts of being put on the pedestal, you can't encourage it and take the good parts. And then as soon as the bad happens, you kind of step away. and say, oh, this isn't fair. So I think it's something at both viewers and streamers and they need to communicate and be more open about

in order for the viewers to not just see them as like a computer screen or some rich, famous guy that's playing games, they would just see them as themselves. So, Train, I noticed that, you know, if I just pay attention to the, you know, the subject of a lot of the sentences that you use, you're talking about streamers, but then you actually say that you don't fall into that,

bucket in a lot of ways. I'm hearing that. Like so, for example, you say a lot of people do want to be on a pedestal. I don't want to be on a pedestal. You know, I, like a lot of people want the good and don't want the bad, whereas I recognize you can't have the good without the bad. So I don't want any of it. And so what I'm curious about is, I mean, we can talk kind of hypothetically about streamers, but frankly, I don't know what to make of that, right? So what I tend to get curious about is like, you know, what's in the mind of the person who thinks that all streamers are sociopathic narcissists? What's in the mind of the streamer who is on the receiving end of other people thinking that

they're a sociopathic narcissist? And so what I'm really curious about is like, what's in your mind? And we can talk generally about streamers, but I don't know how much we can learn or, I mean, I think we learn a lot, but I think you can offer a rich. of information if we're talking about you that we can't get if we're hypothesizing about other people. True. Okay. So, so, so I was just using this as like a warm-up conversation. I get my brain fluids flowing. But yeah, I'll answer that and then we'll go into the actual juicy part of round three of the Dr. K. K. Trainrix TV talk. So to answer your question,

um, what's going on in the minds of the viewer that's asserting or that's making, that diagnosis or whatever it's called. I guess I don't know, but I would, if I made a guess, I would say it's, so from the viewer's side, I would say it's some sort of insecurity of their own where, where instead of just viewing the person as they are and enjoying them as they are and realizing that they're not going to like every single person, if they don't like and they should just move along and see a new person. I think, I think they need to, I think that they need to, they need.

that diagnosis to be true like that's their way of shaping the streamer they're watching like they don't want to leave because they like them but there's something of that person that makes them feel away and the only way they can make that feeling go away or justify that feeling and stay there is to assert those diagnoses onto them in order for them to be rationalize why they're perceiving the behavior that they're like attributing or whatever the word is they're using as a rationalization to stay and watch by minimizing them and putting themselves greater. Does that make any sense? That's what I would guess possibly as the viewer.

I completely agree. I mean, I think so there's something really interesting. If you look at Eastern theories of the mind, one of the things that they say is that the ego is a protective mechanism. And the ego helps you when you're feeling sad or vulnerable or emotionally hurt. by pumping yourself up or putting other people down. Yes. Right? So I can feel better about myself if I put other people down.

And this is one of the really interesting things as I've been exploring why people are so toxic towards celebrities and streamers. I think one of the interesting things that I realized is that, you know, if you put an ant down, your ego doesn't get a whole lot. If you put a peer down, your ego gets a lot. more. If you take someone who's above you down a notch, then your ego gets a lot. And if you topple someone who's at the top of a pedestal, well, then you get to feel really good about yourself. Yeah. And so it's really interesting. And you know, just as a side note, Trin, I can't, I'm going to troll you here a little bit. Let me know if you, you know, this is offensive.

But nothing's offensive. If you're wondering, you know, you know, You know, maybe why people think you come across as narcissistic. What I'm hearing from you say is that- Oh, I know what it is. Oh, what is it? Well, I'll be honest with you. I mean, just look at me right now. My legs are crossed.

I mean, look at me. Like, I'm sitting here as if, you know, I mean, I see it myself. I feel like I'm almost offending myself by looking at myself. Like, I just look like, I don't know. I look aggressively confident as if I figured life out and I know what I'm talking about. I don't mean to come off that way. I don't think. I think I know nothing.

Right now, to be honest, I'm insecure about half the shit. I've said the last 30 minutes. But when I'm looking at my physical features and the outside shell, it looks like I think I've said everything because I know it's correct. And if you disagree, you're gone. That's the way I look to myself. But on the inside, I've actually been insecure about the last 30 minutes of what I've been saying. Because honestly, I'm so.

kind of, I'm so foggy and gloomy, or just so, I'm just waking up. I don't know what the fuck I haven't seen the last 30 minutes, right? So that's what's inside. But on the outside, I'm looking at myself, it looks like I have figured the world out and I'm just telling you, what I'm telling you is God's grace and you should, you know, be happy I've been speaking. That's what I look like to me when I'm speaking. But in the inside, I've actually been insecure about what I've been saying? I'm like, what the fuck am I saying right now? Holy shit. Does that make sense? Entirely too much. Okay. Can I do one thing real quick? Yeah.

I have to use the restroom real quick. Is that okay? Go for it. Okay. And I'll gather my thoughts. I'm so sorry. No, no. Dude, call the nature, bro.

I'm back. Sorry about that. No problem, man. Yeah, you know, that hot tea just went through and, you know, I just took the longest pee of my life. Yeah. No, I'm just kidding. I, I, yeah, I, yeah, you know, I, I, I don't like talking about this because, you know, I, I still, you know, uh, let's, And chat, I took a shit, okay?

Get over it. And it was good. It was one of those where, you know, honestly, I wish I could have sat up there for another 45 minutes, you know, and just really just wrote it out. You know what I'm talking about? It's one of those that I almost wish I could have sucked back in and redid it. It was that good. Does that make any sense? Yeah, that sounds.

Yeah, yeah. I've never heard anyone say that. But I too experienced. I enjoy sitting on the pot, you know, after doing a number two. and actually it's a very physiologically intensive process. Yeah. You know? Well, I wouldn't know that.

Sometimes we need to recover from it. So. But anyway, so back to where we're, I'm a lot more clear now. So actually, you go ahead. I think you're going to respond. Go ahead. Yeah. So I was just going to say, you know, it's interesting because you say when you look at yourself,

you see a guy who comes across as arrogant. Yeah. And which is interesting because what you feel is. insecure. And I don't think you come across as arrogant at all, man. I think you come across as pretty chill and pretty genuine. At least that's how I perceive you. I don't think you're, you know, you're not like claiming to be, you know, the source of wisdom and knowledge in the world. In fact, quite the opposite. You're, you're owning that you're just one guy and you're like everyone else and everything else. You're kind of setting back. You're relaxed. You're kind of chilling. And I think the

interesting thing is that I don't think it's a coincidence that your feeling of insecurity coexist with your judgmental perception of yourself. Right? So if we think about it, oh, go ahead. So you perceive yourself as someone who's falsely confident or overly confident or look at this guy who looks like he knows what he's talking about. Yes. And when you say, it's interesting because if you really tunnel down into that language, looks like he knows what he's talking about. Yep. And that looks like actually is rooted in your own insecurity train. Well, if I may expand on what I meant by that. So you, you are, you know, wise, you have experience, you know, and you're a little older than the average viewer of Twitch, right? So it's not,

so when I tell you that I look at myself and that's what I see, it's not because, you know, it's what I feel about myself. It's because what I've, that's what I've been told that I look like ever since middle school. And that's one of the general, that's actually part of the main, I honestly believe, and this, this is a fact. This isn't some victim card thing that I know they love to say victim card. This is, this is a fact. And anyone who doesn't admit this by this point on Twitch based on everything that's gone on is just in denial. I'm vilified no matter what I do. So it's that vilification.

That's where it stems from, right? It's the voice. It's the mixture of the way I look, the way I come off. So when I say I look this way, it's not that I truly believe I look that way. To me, the way I look is completely normal and average like anybody else. Now, I understand I have some protruding features. I mean, there's this one time that's stuck with me since now. I went to a doctor and the doctor tried to convince my parents to go,

to undergo a surgery to shave down my protruding bones in my face to have a more a well-liked appearing face like a more trusting face rather than like a warrior bones protruding so a doctor tried to tell my mom to do that and my mom yeah my mom said no and i'm happy she said no because fuck that right you're beautiful shame and thank you thank you and and people told me to get you know no surgeries i said hell no you know i i love my nose you know like i i love myself i have a love for myself, you know, and it doesn't go into this, like, narcissistic thing. Like, I just, I appreciate, you know, the way I look. I do think I'm the best looking on Twitch. That's not a meme. You know, it's half meme to kind of ease it into people's minds, but I'm, I think I'm the

best looking, right? These things are what I believe. So it's not that I think I look this way, it's that I've learned that when I speak, for some reason, these things are attributed to me, and people, since middle school, and this will go into the bullying stories, people need me. to be a certain thing. Like, they need me to be the villain or whatever they seem, they need me to be that. Otherwise, I can't be accepting their mind.

Like, I don't know if it's out of a fear that's, like, instilled in them where I need to be ripped down and tear down. So it's just, it's just been continuous that, right? And I'll give you examples of that. Here, later on, we're going to the bullying stuff. But, so that's what I mean when I say, I've slowly understood where they're coming from

because when I look at myself, I, when I put myself into, when I try to put myself into someone that doesn't know me, I mean, this part isn't an insecurity part. I think it's just true, right? If I were to see, let's say, a chance on the side of soda popping on the street, right? I'd like, yeah, I'd want to approach him. I'd like, hey, what's up, man? Do you need help with that?

But if I saw me on this street, like, damn, if I say the wrong thing, am I going to get punched in the face? Like, that's just like a, I think that's just a common, like, instinctual thing, right? Like, if you see someone that has this, like, more protruding face, you know, kind of, you know, he looks angry because. of his extreme passionate facial features. You know, he gets into an argument. He can't just talk normal tone. He has to start yelling.

But I'm not actually yelling. I'm just excited. But since I have a deep voice that's coming across, I'm doing a battle cry, right? So these things that I, for the longest time, didn't realize, but these things are what people kind of see. And since they don't know me, that's kind of their first impression that they assert.

Does that make any sense? That's just kind of what I gathered. I'm not saying they're right to do it. because I don't think they are, but it's just what I've accepted to just be the baseline minimum. What's it like to be vilified no matter what you do? Well, it's kind of funny because it's been this way since the beginning. Now, am I saying that I'm a perfect human being and I don't deserve to be criticized or held accountable for things? No, I definitely think I should be held accountable for a lot of things.

I think I've made a lot of mistakes. I think that I will continue to make mistakes. but it's weird because because it's been this way for so long for me it's like my body myself has adapted to now when I'm not vilified when I go through bouts of acceptance I'm bored I'm content I've lost motivation it's almost as if my body has adapted where I need to be hated and doubted in order to to to progress and progress and And I'll give you an example of that. Earlier this year, there was the Australian wildfires.

And we did a charity for them. And I think for the first time and a long time, it was like two days where it was just pure peace. Everyone's like, oh, train, good thing he did, ignore everything else, good thing, great thing, good job, train. And there was nothing. Like it was like, I should have, you know, I was happy. I was happy that I was being accepted finally or whatever. but I was kind of, I was like, damn, what now? You know?

And I didn't do it for that reason. I did it because a lot of my community is from Australia, so I knew that the fires were, you know, impacting their lives. And I knew that it was, you know, fucking their shit up. And they would talk about it in my chat. So I thought, you know, we kind of do it for the core community and for the people. But that little two days of just acceptance, I was like, damn, what now? It's like my body couldn't or my mind couldn't.

it's like I gained this adaptive trait over the last like 15 years where I needed to be doubted, hated and vilified in order to progress and prove people wrong. Does that make any sense? Makes a lot of sense. So why do you think that's an adaptation? So if we think about an adaptation, an adaptation allows us to succeed in a particular environment. Right? So what is the adaptation? Like what, right? So you like, you've taken the negative energy. directed towards you and you use it as fuel. That's what I'm hearing. Yes. Yes. Right? Yeah. Can I think for a second? Please do. Yeah. So what happened after the wildfires? Like, did you do something to become vilified once again? Because people thought you were like a decent person and then you kind of, you say you get bored. Then what happens?

Oh, it just goes back to a baseline. What is the baseline? The baseline is just the vilified. The I feel if I think, or it's kind of just like... Is that, but how do people vilify you, or is there something that triggers their hatred? I think that's, um, I definitely say some stupid shit. I'll do so. I'll, um, yeah, I mean, yeah, I think I say some pretty dumb shit. I think, you know, there's times where I say some stupid shit. There's times where I, you know, have a little laugh with my friends or I'll have opinions that don't

match the, you know, popular opinion. Can you give me an example of what, what you described as a dumb shift, did you say? Um, I think there's, so since there's so many people watching, I think there's a disconnect between like, uh, with context, right? So if I'm talking to like my community and we're just like making a joke or I'm just talking to them and just clowning around, that that could be clipped. And obviously, unless you're there in that moment and you can pick up the last two hours of context, you're going to see that as what the fuck is this guy saying? Like, this is some stupid shit. How could you say that, right?

So I think that leads to a lot of things. And I think the main part is, so I think that it's just there's no benefit to the doubt given, right? So I think for example, right,

let's say a buddy of mine chance, he says some sort of pop and he says some dumb shit. It kind of goes, nah, it's just chance. He doesn't mean shit, right? But if I say some dumb shit that's out of context, there's no, like, there's no digging and looking at the context. There's no seeing what was it about. It's like they need to believe that it is the worst possible thing that I could mean. Does that make sense?

And I think that comes from the base level. Why do they believe that about you? Why do they give chance the benefit of the doubt, but they don't give you the benefit of the doubt? Well, I genuinely believe. I genuinely think it's that halo effect thing. Right? What does that halo effect? What does that mean?

You know. I don't know that term. Oh, like, I think, this is tough to say because no one's going to ever, I think it comes down from the way that you come across, right? I think a buddy of mine poke, him and I did this test one stream where we talked beforehand and there was this like graph we both saw and we didn't tell the stream. And there's this graph of like a face that's like more trusting that people can be okay with them being successful or better or having the better car or better house or better girlfriend. They're okay. They're like, please do. We'll even support you more if you have it.

And then there's a face where if you even have one thing better, you have to be torn down to the ground. And me and Polk saw this graph and we realized like we're sitting at the exact opposites of like he's on this face. I'm on this face. And we kind of laughed at it. And then we like did this like little test and the reaction was perfect. It was like it was the per it was exactly what we thought and what the like graph would say would be. Right. Whereas like one face looks more like like it just needs to be torn down and needs to be like devoured and the other face.

Every benefit of the doubt given, every credibility given, even more credibility given than even deserved. Right. So it's kind of like those two polarizing spectrums of the way you come across. Does that make sense? Yeah. So train, I'm, I'm a little bit. So I'm in a fork in the road. Yeah, go ahead.

So I have a couple of random thoughts that are sort of starting to come together in a hypothesis. Perfect. Please, please. Let me finish. And then the other thing, though, is that I'm wondering whether it's better to hold on to the hypothesis for now and talk to you a little bit about bullying because I think that'll probably flesh the hypothesis out. Okay. Or I can kind of, you know, jump to a conclusion. It's not really a conclusion because it's not really well formed.

It's just like data points that I think it's kind of like a constellation, right? Like I see these couple data points and someone's like, that's an archer. And it's like it's just a random scattering of points. Right. So the archer is what I'm making out of these data points. And that's really unfair. And I really am. So with some people, I would just jump out and I.

would say, hey, here's like maybe what's going on. But let's just think about what you're telling us. What you're telling us is that people don't give you the benefit of the doubt. What you're telling us is that someone looks at one constellation of stars. And if it's soda poppin, they say, that's a birthday cake. And if it's you, that's a tombstone. Right? Like, and so it's interesting. Yeah. Outsets. I agree. Yeah. So now I have to be really careful because I would normally consider sharing this with you. But if we really think about what your actual, what you're telling us is that like people don't give you the benefit of the doubt. So there's a part of me that wants to kind of pull back and say, let me really make sure, let me give you the benefit of the doubt.

Let me ask you a few more questions. Let's get into it. And then maybe I can share this with you at the end. But I really leave it up to you because it's what you want. What don't we start with the good, the juicy stuff. Where we left off at round two, We looked into round three because I don't think, to be honest, I don't feel like I explained everything I explained to right now as a perfect representation of what I believe. I think some of it was just kind of filler because I couldn't think of the right stuff. So I don't feel too confident in an analysis of that of me. So let's start with the round three, the round three of our talk based on what we're left off. And then it goes into exactly what we're just talking about.

But I think if I can explain to you through my experience and through actual example, you can actually get. a better understanding of what I'm saying because I think the way I'm describing it is just so it's just so all over the place that at this point I'm not even recognizing what I'm describing to as being myself anymore so yeah let's start with the round two the round three stuff we'll start and at the end you can I'd love to hear actual examples cool yeah okay so we can let's start let's start end of elementary school okay so end of elementary school so fifth grade to sixth grade From fifth grade, you're in a different school. Sixth grade is middle school.

So you switch schools entirely and you get into a whole different bracket. Just explain that because some people have, you know, things that are mixed from K1 to 12th grade. Solmantry school, I remember. I was, you know, I was still a kid. When I say kid, I'm talking kid. I'm talking zero awareness of hygiene for myself. I need my parents to still tell me, you know, zero awareness of style, zero awareness. style, zero awareness of what's in music-wise, blah, blah, blah.

Fifth grade, going to sixth grade. I'm still wearing my short shorts. I still have my, I still remember the shirt I had on first day of school. It was this little fish shirt that had a hole in it because the teacher's hamster in fifth grade that I held in my hand and actually nibbled through my shirt. I wore that shirt to school as a fish, short shorts, glasses, you know, probably bad breath because I didn't brush my teeth that morning. A couple of pimples.

And I remember going to school. Everyone kind of, I don't know what the word is, assimilated. They kind of just went into the style. You know, everyone knew who had to dress, you know, the basketball shorts below your knees, short socks instead of long white socks, you know, actual lace shoes instead of velcroed ones. Everyone kind of knew. And I went into school with one best friend. And that best friend's name was Tyler.

That was my name. And I remember the first day of school, everyone kind of looked at me and laughed, you know, and I had one best friend that I, like, trusted, who was my best friend from childhood all the way up to sixth grade. And there was this other kid that was like a baseball prospect. He was looking to be like on the baseball team, first year. Everyone was talking about him in the leagues. His name was Ryan. Now, I remember sixth grade, or my first lunch.

I got my lunch and everyone's kind of somehow everyone knew each other. I don't know how they could know each other. I don't know if there was some event outside of school that they all knew each other beforehand. But anyways, I found Tyler. And Tyler is with sitting with Ryan and other people. And at that point, I'm, you know, already feeling insecure. I'm feeling terrible. I'm feeling unwelcome. And I'm thinking I have one good friend. So I go up to him and I'm ready to sit with him and he looks at me and he's like, you can't sit with me. And I kind of just like I was kind of in shock. And he said a couple other mean things, and then all the friends left.

And then from that day on, for the rest of sixth grade, I ate my bathroom alone in the bathroom. Like, I ate my food alone in the bathroom alone. And that kind of started a big, that was like the start to everything. That was the start to, like that was the start. I would even say to my brand on stream, the squad W, the double standard. And I'll get to that a little later. So anyways, I go through sixth grade like that, eat my bathroom, eat my food in the bathroom. And, you know, that came with its own thing.

You know, I would be eating. Usually I'd be crying in there and I'd have that little, you know, that deep pain in my chest kind of feeling. And I'd end up just not eating because I'd be full after that. But that was for that entire year. Seventh grade came along. And in seventh grade, there was a... this girl that was in sixth grade that was seen by the entire school is the hottest girl in the school now for some reason this girl she saw me and she didn't want anyone else she just wanted me

but i was just so like i was still so mature i was so hated i was even more insecure and keep in mind in this is going to be really hard to believe but in middle school i had this deep a voice this this this voice you're hearing i had this voice and and i remember and i know i'm not misremembering because I remember specific teachers to this day that still commented on my voice's deepness at that age. So anyways, so this girl kind of saw me, looked at me, and she liked me.

I didn't know how, but she did. And, you know, I never made anything of it. I kind of just stayed friends. And then, you know, I believe, I want to say... Got you know she was into you. So I wrote the same buzzer. is her best friend and her best friend would always like kind of tell me and talk to me and I'll get into that I can bring this back up yeah but her best friend kind of related to me right

but I was at that point I was like so nervous and insecure and shy that it was as if she was talking to a wall I just didn't I didn't really absorb it her I thought it was just some sort of plot against me at that point with like how much I got fucked with so anyways seventh grade comes along I forgot when 9-11 happened to this time but the 9-11 happened in the 6th grade or 5th grade 2001 I mean anyways 7th grade comes along and you know I'm Persian I'm Iranian so the 9-11 thing in that yeah in in Arizona right it didn't matter if you're you know Iranians completely separate from everything else like it's different language different ethnicity different everything but they didn't care right Iran sounds like

Iraq. That's just what it was for them in that school. So I remember there's this kid, Shane. He was kind of the redneck kind of of of the school and he was proud of it like he would say that stuff. And I remember he made comments that my parents blew up the building and they were in the plane, blah, blah, blah, or like my parents' brothers were in the plane and my parents are responsible. And this other guy named Chris set up the fight between me and that kid and that kid was the cool kid of the school. He was in the cool kid group. He was the wrestler. And I was, you know, the soccer player and the loser. And Chris set up the fight. And long story short, we met up in the bathroom and I ended up breaking his nose. And in that moment, that three minutes, that one punch that

broke his nose, everything changed. Suddenly, because of one punch that isn't reflective of my character, isn't reflective of who I am. It is It has nothing to do with who I want to be, what I think I am, my emotions, what I want to see in the world. There's no depth to it, nothing. But because of a simple punch, suddenly the entire population of girls wanted me. Suddenly, all the guys wanted me to sit at their table and be friends with them. And at that time, I couldn't understand how I could sit there and go through what I went through relative to my life for those one and a half years. and then a single punch to one person's face that's clearly in the wrong as being racist

is all that it takes for me to be loved by all, accepted by all, right? It made no sense to me and, you know, that this will lead on to my brand and SquadW and everything else. So anyways, that happens. I end up, you know, I get carried away a little bit into it all, but I don't forget the girl that liked me before at all. And I kind of just stuck with her. Eighth grade comes along.

I'm sorry. Can you say that last part again? What about the girl? I stuck with so I ended up choosing the girl that was with me before all of the bullshit, right? So she liked me before the punch. And now that I punched someone, all of them want me. They want me to sit with them and hang out with them and go to their little kickbacks and parties. And this is the girl that was super hot or no?

Yes. It was the girl that liked me before the punch. It was the super hot one gay. So are you dating her? We weren't dating. We were still doing our little thing. Yeah, yeah. I would, I would, well, I did lose on virginity at 13, which was middle school. So it's not this thing where it's middle school. We were just talking, nothing going happening. Like people were definitely doing stuff, at least in my time and day and age.

You know, people were doing stuff that I guess is weird to talk about now for some reason. But we were, you know, we were hooking up and stuff. But we were just kind of like going slow. It was something you'd see out of like some like teen wolf, you know, some some some some, some. TV movie, you know. Anyways, eighth grade comes along and I'm still kind of writing out the punch. You know, I'm still kind of the cool kid now. But, you know, I'm still friends with all my friends. And at the end of eighth grade, you know, I'm still, I live that life. I have that year and a half of perspective that I've gained from being the cool kid from, you know, anything I say. How do you feel about yourself then?

Um, I was definitely still. insecure but I definitely did ride out some of the benefits of the position of being the cooler kid and you know the feared kid or whatever the hell the case might be I wrote it out a little bit you know obviously I was young I was immature and you know I I definitely wrote it out you know it had its advantages and it almost had no disadvantages to be completely honest weird, weird. School is just weird. High school, middle school is weird. For some reason, if you're the cool kid, you literally have zero disadvantage

until later in life when you realize that was your peak and it made you content with everything so you had no further ambition to move higher up. Anyways. Does it happen to you? No, it didn't happen to me. It's because I'll tell you why. And this

may have actually saved me in a way. So at the end of eighth grade, I'm still kind of the cool kid I'm going around, you know, different schools are getting together. you know, I'm like the, I'm like the pillar of my school and the other cool kids, the other schools, we'd all get together party. And like, it was just, it was like a crazy time. Anyways, so end of eighth grade, my parents want to move. Now, key in mind, I'm like this emo kid. So that was kind of my day and age. I'm this scene kid.

I've, you know, girl pants on, shirt, jacket, you know. And, you know, I'm just, you know, just one girl after the other. because it was insane, right? And this was eighth fucking grade. So, like, it was just crazy. Lost in virginity that eighth grade. And my parents want to move to a different city. So the city that I was in was very culturally diverse. There was everyone, you know, a lot of black kids, a lot of Mexican kids, a lot of Middle Eastern kids, a lot of white kids.

Everyone just, it's a big melting pot, just mixed, mixed, mixed, mixed. My parents want to move, right? we end up moving. We end up going over to, which I guess there was more background, because I ended up losing my best friend because of the move. But that's,

I guess that's irrelevant to what we're talking about. I guess there's a piece of it. But anyway, I'll just, I'll skip that. We'll get to that later. So we ended up moving. We ended up moving to Scottsdale,

Scottsdale, Arizona. Now I end up going to the school. Now, this is eighth grade? So you guys move in the middle of eighth grade? No, no, no. We move at the end of eighth grade. So I moved my freshman year of high school. Oh, wow.

So new high school. New high school, new city, new place. No one knows me. Move there. And if there is any place opposite of culturally diverse, melting pot type thing, it is this school that I went to. It was called Chaparral High School. I think it is a rated school. And it's in the top 1,200 for like America for public schools. Now, this school is all white kids. When I say all white, I'm saying that like my junior year in that school was probably the first time I saw a black kid walk in the halls or and then we had like two Asian kids like it was like that everyone was white everyone there it was the weirdest experience and they were all like going to that phase where they're gangster white but they all came from very rich families right it was just a very very different place and me walking

in there dressed the way I was dressed being the way I was it started all over And the bullying. So, right. So I walk in. No one knows me. I kind of just, you know, first day I'm shy. I don't carry over any of the things from eighth grade. And I just kind of was myself.

And it was just a crazy experience. And I remember freshman year, you know, I got fucked with a lot. You know, I, for me, for me, it was. was more so the it was the it was the vocal uh it was the emotional bullying that i was kind of cursed with um so i got so i would get made funner for my big head i people would call me domer which now it's been made into a meme and it's a better thing but they'd call me domer they'd call me T-rex because of my protruding bones in my face. They'd say I look like a dinosaur.

You know, all the things that you hear today in Twitch chat, they said then. Now it's kind of different. So I'm okay with it now. You know, now I've kind of owned it. You know, typical stuff. Just ugly, unwanted shit like that. And in those days, you have to understand. In those days, there was no acknowledgement for emotional.

emotional abuse. There was none. It was sticks and stones may break your bones, but words cannot hurt you. And that was accepted by all, everybody, including myself, right? So it was a different time. There was no awareness of that. It was physical bullying or no bullying. And later on we find that the emotional abuse is even worse. But anyways, it was just nonstop. You know, girls would point and laugh, guys would point and laugh. They would throw food at me, shit like that. Now, And how did you feel about yourself when that kind of stuff would happen? Um, what did you understand? Like, what's your understanding about the world and who you are and who they are? And I was an idiot. I, the more I got fucked with, the better I wanted to be, like, to them. I thought maybe, I don't know. You wanted them to like you. I wanted them to like me, but I also, I have this weird thing in me. And this is how I am to this day where, you know, right now you could punch me in the face and we can, we can get into a fist fight.

And right when that fist fight ends, it's like the slate is cleaned. Like, I will go and buy you a burrito. We'll have a nice lunch together. Right. So after like about of emotional abuse or bullying, I would do nice things for them. And it confused them. But I didn't see it as anything bad. I saw it as I just kind of accepted that that's just the way I came off.

that maybe like that's what I needed to go through in order to be seen as like a I don't know does that make any sense I'm not really sure how to explain I thought I needed to go through that that was my you know I thought maybe I needed to I don't know does that make any sense yeah it almost sounds to me like you felt on some level you deserved it it needed to happen right Yeah. I use deserve in a loaded way. I know, I know, I know. I didn't take that in that.

Yeah, don't worry. I'm not, I'm not, I guess I didn't under. So it's crazy because right now, everything in my life right now to this day, my brand, everything I preach, it stems from those days. I just, I didn't understand how I didn't get how like the nice things that you know are nice things. nice you know the actions that the good things that you do for people i didn't get how those didn't matter it's like people they talk about them like they matter they talk about how they want them how they wish the world was like this but when they see it happen it's made fun of it's uncool the person doing them is just a fucking nerd loser you know soy boy right whatever the

fuck right but it's the talk of wanting it that people value more than the actual getting it, right? So it's like all the cool kids will talk about doing all the good, but they'll just be fucking douchebags and dicks and superficial and go do opposite if they talk. And then when there's somebody that's doing it, it doesn't matter if they're doing it. No one cares. It's like it's the cool thing to do is to talk about it, to share the idea, to spread the

hope through the talk. But when someone actually does it, they're, I don't know, it was just this weird thing. I learned this happened all the way back then, too. It was fucking insane, right? So, it was uncool to be nice and good. I ask you this question for the second time. Yeah, go ahead. How does it feel to be vilified no matter what you do?

Right? Because that's what you're telling me. You're telling me that like, you know, everyone talks about being nice, like something to aspire to. We, in our talk, we place value to it. And what I'm imagining is there's like a kid in 10th grade. man in 10th grade who gets made fun of because of the way your face looks and then like what I'm hearing from you overwhelmingly is that like you sort of didn't deserve what they did and

you could have been an asshole and they would have made fun of you you could have said nothing and they would have made fun of you well I said nothing yeah and and then you could have you tried to be nice like you tried to be a good person you try to be a good person you to be what people aspire to, right? You tried to become a good person and to be respected and then they laughed at you and made fun of you anyway. Well, they hated you no matter what. If I can get to the end and then I'll answer that because the end is so important to everything,

right? Okay. And I've only had, I think when I get to the end and tell you what I'm going to tell you, I've only had maybe three or four other people in my life be able to admit what this individual admitted. And recently, actually, Ha Fu is one of the people that could just be confident enough, or I don't know what the wording is, but to admit it. And that's why I respect the hell out of her. I really like

hafu. But so long story short, you know, just another four years of just, you know, even on my soccer team, right? I made varsity freshman year. And even there, man, you know, I got in the soccer team, they actually physically bullied me, right? Like they would coach wouldn't look. It was something you'd see out of a movie. You know, they would trip me.

They would just fucking push me down, kick me on the ground. And the coach would look back around and he would think that I'm the one horsing around. So I would get the laps. It was something just fucked up shit. But that was just, I just took that as what it was. Not to mention I ended up taking one of the senior player's spots because I ended up being the first lead in goal score in freshman year. So that was more of, I just saw that as, you know, the insecure kind of, like I said, the talk over the action thing. Anyways, I'm going to skip past everything. Okay. There's a lot of detail

in there, but I think you get a good gist. I don't need to make this a pity party. So senior year. Why not? Because, because in my opinion, by now, I think the people or you, based on what I've said, they know what I'm talking about. If you don't know what I'm talking about at this point, then the more I talk, I feel like it's only going to make you understand through pity and feeling bad. And if you understand through pity and feeling bad, you don't actually understand and there's no actual solution that comes from it. All that comes from it is just the feeling of feeling bad for the individual and giving them, you know, treating them in a way because you feel bad, but you don't truly understand what they went through, right? Does that make any sense? I could go deeper into sophomore junior and senior year.

I could definitely, you know, the parties, the not being invited, the kind of being kicked out. in front of everybody because, you know, I was never welcome in the first place or I'm a loser, like, things like that. Like, I can go, I mean, there's a lot of like rejection and just. No, what I'm curious about is why you're devaluing pity. But anyway, we can just, we can go to the end. I'm just taking notes.

I guess I devalue pity because, I don't know. I was, I was kind of, I don't know, Like, for me, it was there's, you can't put your head down and sulk. You can't pity. You have to, you know, instead think of a way you're going to beat it. You know, think of the, think of the way you're going to climb the mountain and get over it. You know, if you sit there and, you know, just, I don't know, you know, for me that there was no, I didn't have my things solved by others. I had to solve them, right? So I don't know. Does that make any sense? Yeah. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. But I think it's, it's, pity didn't help is what I'm hearing. No, pity.

I was, I've never been, I've never been, I don't know what the word is. I don't want to say blessed. I've never had the accommodate, I've never had the luxury of being pitied. I've never, like no one's ever felt, no one's ever said, oh, poor, you know, he doesn't, you know, minus my parents make. But like, you know, no one's ever said, oh, damn, man, like, it's all good, bro. Like, you don't deserve this. Like, you know, keep your head up.

Like, one day you'll be sling green and prove all them wrong. That was never the case. It's as if, like, in a way, even the people who called me friends in a way, like, in the back of their minds, they enjoyed me being put down. So, like, I just. How would you feel if I said, I pity you? I guess in a way, I'd feel insulted. I think so. Does that make any sense?

Makes perfect sense. Just from, like, where I'm at. Yep. So I don't mean think like I don't even want the pity. You don't want the pity. I completely agree. Yeah. What's insulting about it?

How dare you? That's what I. That's what I did. Yeah. What's insulting about it is what I went through where I'm at right now, I don't even see it as a bad thing. I'm glad I went through it. I see it as a strength. I see I turned weakness.

I turned the destruction of. myself, the putting down on myself into one of my greatest strengths, into a fuel that people who didn't have that life can never taste. And I'm not saying that you need to have that life or it's a good thing now in life. It's not. But I just don't need anyone's pity. Does that make any sense? Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So we'll circle back to that. Okay. We'll circle back to it. Okay. So senior year, I finally got to a place. Now, keep in mind, I'm still insecure. I'm still immature. I'm still extremely insecure.

To the point, I mean, there's a lot that I left out about, you know, just this school is a rich school. So that's where a lot of my insecurities came from where I felt like I need to lie about what I have in order to be accepted. You know, lie about a car or a house or who owns what. And it stems from this school. But anyways, senior year comes around. I still remember the group of kids that would bully me, right? It was pretty much the football team, right?

And the head of it all, his name was Ethan. Right now, I think he's like in Hollywood somewhere. Like, uh, uh, he's best friends with like the brother of Emma Stone. Emma Stone has a brother Spencer and I went to school with Spencer and I think freshman year, Emma. Emma is brother Spencer and Spencer's best friend's Ethan and then they kind of took him to Hollywood and now they work there. Anyways, though. So, uh-huh. So that's kind of kind of. of what I will. Well, here's a thing. So Emma was actually a very nice person. She's always been

very nice and very good, like very mature, very nice. So that's actually a surprising part. Like, she was the like mature, responsible one. She was cool. I only got like, I think I only saw for six months before she would transfer schools to like a private school or something. But her brother ended up transferring back to our school. And he had his bouts, you know, he was half and half. He was kind of embarrassed to, you know, be around me. I was the loser. He was the cool kid, whatever. how do I feel about that? We'll get into that a little later.

But anyways, so at the end of the school year, I gave you that background information just to kind of add more credibility to it all. But by credibility, I mean, how well I remember the events because the human memory usually, you know, it's not too good. But anyways, so senior year comes around. And I've always been a very, like, blunt person when it comes. I just kind of ask straight up things that people are too, like, embarrassed for. And it wasn't always like this.

kind of built up all the way to senior year. So senior year comes around and I had a class, I had this English class and my teacher was the football like strategy coach. And all the football players were my class at the end. They would hit me in class and then the teacher would, I think, relive his, the high school experience he thinks he deserved through being a teacher and giving the cool kids a pass and getting me in trouble for getting hit and retaliating. So anyways, school year ended and I ended up asking this guy, this, this Ethan guy, like, why did they hate me? Right?

And I remember, actually, there was one big thing I remember. They would, so Ethan, his girlfriend worked in the student yearbook. So in the student council yearbook. And this was the worst part for me, I think. It wasn't the worst part. It was one of the bad parts that to this day remember. Every yearbook I had, I would rip out two pages. And I would cry in my bathroom, even at the age I was at, because he would get his girlfriend

to add in a page of just like, just like clowning on me, just like, just rumors about me into like, so like in the sections where it would say most likely to be, they would put rumors into me and it was the school joke. And they would all turn to that page and laugh at me and point. And I would always rip that page out in the bathroom and flush it down and just cry. But anyways, at end of the year, I have. asked, but anyways, at the end of the year, I remember I asked him to strip, I was like, I'm like, why? Like, the fuck? Like, you know, what was all this for? And this was the first

honest answer I got, at least now that, from what I know now, honest answer that I got. He said, the reason that I, they hated me, hear me out here, okay? And we'll get to why I brought Hafu up in his second here and some others. He told me the reason they hated me and the reason they felt they needed to bully me is because they felt they needed to bring me down a notch. Literally word for word, what you said earlier, but they needed to bring me down a notch. They felt when I walked into their school, they didn't like that I walked around with my head up high. They didn't like the way I talked confidently. Little did I know this wasn't the case at all. I was insecure. It's just part of when I talk, I have this deeper voice, right? I might get a little

passionate and me walking at my head up high what the fuck's it to them if like think about that i want you to think about that so i wasn't any of the things they attributed to me but because of the way i looked and the way i walked it's as if i owned the place and they felt like they needed to bring me down a notch and that was that was the stem of my bullying it wasn't even anything that i had done to them it wasn't anything that I said or that actually disgusted them, it was the mere fact that I threatened their egos because of walking with my head up high. And that was the first time.

I didn't understand it then, but I understand it clearly now. And the reason I bring up Hafu, because I'm sure they'll be pushed back on this story a little bit, but recently, Hafu and I sort of playing among us. I'll skip back to school and stuff in a second. But Hoff and I start playing among us. So she's actually a supporter of mine.

I support her. She's a friend now. And I respect the hell out of her for admitting this. Because I think a lot of people feel this way. But it takes a certain confidence to be able to admit it. Hafu literally said a word for word what Ethan told me senior year of high school. She told me this like two weeks ago. Like I was talking to her about different groups, why some groups don't want me in there.

And she literally said, exactly what it is. The looks thing, you kind of look like, you know, you look kind of scary. The way you talk, it's kind of intimidating and aggressive. It comes across as if you're at to beat everyone's ass. Like hearing that from her in the message, when I responded, I'm like, listen, I, I, like, a piece of me, I just respected the hell out of her because this is the vibe I get time and time again from a lot of people. But you can't.

What man is going to admit that? No man. If you feel that way about me, it goes against the very thing to even admit that. Because if you feel that way about me in the first place, it means there's something that's being, some ego that's being triggered, right? Some insecurity, which contradicts the mere fact of ever admitting, oh, well, I don't like you because you kind of scare me, right? So no one ever admits it, but I think that's like a deeper reflection of it all.

Right. And I think that's why I'm vilified. I think that's why a lot of the things that I do are kind of, you know, of devalued. They're kind of lessened. And I think, so that's why I brought the Hoffoo thing. I'm just to kind of verify the story that I was told in senior year by my bully. And yeah, so that that was that. And then, you know, college came around and same thing happened in college, you know, went to college, same bullshit. And then I got into the drugs. And the drugs were a crazy time. But I'll stop there so we can kind of go over that stuff. I mean, now that I think

about it, maybe I should have went deeper into the high school bullying stuff. I feel like I can't but whatever. Go ahead. So, Train, first of all, let me start by saying, thank you so much for sharing, man. You are a phenomenal storyteller. Really? Yeah. Oh, thank you. You know, it's interesting because I see you always make statements whenever we talk about like, you know, do you get what I'm saying? Do you hear me? I think, train, you're a very clear communicator. I think that you, you capture the essence of things in a way that cannot be wrapped around words. And so sometimes you have trouble finding the words, but I don't think it's because you're,

so if we think about it, any word is a false representation of a real thing. True. Right? Agreed. And so I think sometimes you think you're communicating poorly because you have trouble finding the words. And I think the reason you have trouble finding the words is not because you're dumb. It's because you're so close to the truth that no word captures it.

That's right. I can't think of that's that's exactly right. I'm just like very yeah. Right. And but I don't have I mean, there's basically only been once during the last hour and a half where I haven't been able to follow you. And I sort of told you right away. But I think for the most part like I think, you know, even at the beginning when you said I'm nervous, I don't think I'm speaking clear. I think you're speaking very clearly. I think you tell you're a wonderful storyteller. I think that, you know, your life has a narrative to you. it for sure. And I think it's, there's a lot of authenticity there. There's a lot of truth there. There's a lot of pain there. And there are a lot of adaptations in your story. You know, before we get into the drugs, because I, I want to just toss out a couple

things. One is that I think maybe we should save drugs for next time, presuming there's a next time. Because I do want to share some thoughts with you. and I want to kind of give you, I'm curious what you think. I think this is going to be a challenge because at this point I feel quite confident,

but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. But I wouldn't be surprised if you don't see things quite the way that I do. And the main reason that I think that we should maybe talk about this before we get to the drugs is I suspect something about the drugs has to do with this. Right?

So when we think about addiction and we think about substance use, oftentimes the road to sobriety is not through like focusing on the addiction, it's to focus on the things that the addiction takes advantage of. Certainly there's like a neurochemical, maybe biological predisposition or whatever, fine. But in my experience literally as an addiction psychiatrist,

it's shit like this, that when you figure this stuff out, the substance use gets way better. And if it's okay with you, train, I'm going to just start talking. And feel free to jump in. Yeah, go ahead. Before you fully go in. Actually, I'll save the drug thing, yeah, for next time. Because the drug thing isn't directly related to that, but it is a little bit.

Anyways, yeah. Yes, talk. Go ahead. You talk. Go ahead. Just go ahead. I find it hard to. that it's not going to be related because like this is the story it is and it's not but yeah okay sorry

yeah go ahead okay so i'm going to kind of go chronologically because that's the way that my notes are maybe i can collect my thoughts better but i think it'll hopefully come together okay cool so let's actually just start with talking about narcissism for a second okay because i think it's actually an important discussion so people talk about narcissists is people right like we say that this person is a narcissist I don't think that's the right way to think about narcissism. I think the way to think about narcissism is that it's like a particular pattern of mind that's in response to something else. And specifically, it's like a defense against an attack and it's like a protective mechanism. Right.

When people put you down, there's a part of you that says, no, I'm more than that. Right. And everyone hates me, but I'm more than that. I'm a good person, whatever. And I think part of the reason that streamers, and I think it's really insightful, to me anyway, I think it's nuance, the way that you understand, train, that, like, you know, people exhibit symptoms. Like streamers exhibit symptoms of narcissism, which aren't about them as a person. They're not narcissists.

It's part of the job. Something about streaming in the world that we live in exhibits that or provokes that kind of behavior, which I agree with 100%. And so maybe the reason I think you're insightful is because we agree. Um, but so I think a lot of what we see in narcissistic behavior is because frankly, you guys get attacked a lot, right? So when does narcissism tend to crop up? It's when you get attacked. And if you look at celebrities and why do celebrities and streamers and influencers exhibit narcissistic qualities, I think once you get into the public face, it's as simple as you get

attacked more. And when you get attacked more, you have more narcissistic defenses. And, and so I just wanted to kind of toss that out because I do think it makes sense. And we're actually working on that and trying to understand that and trying to support content creators better at Healthy Gamer. But then I want to get to the beginning thing, which is like this weird insecurity that you have at the beginning of our conversation and the way that you see yourself when you look when you like see yourself. Right? So you said, I feel insecure about the way that I talk. And when I look at myself, I see some guy who's falsely confident. Right, but I want you to just think about how closely those are tied together. That's not actually what you look like. Like, that's absurd, bro. What does false confidence even look like? You just look like you. Your perception of false confidence comes from your insecurity.

Like, I think those are really... The perception of false confidence comes from... So it's what I'm... It's what's drilled in my head. People cannot be okay with me being a confident person. so I try to look into, I look at myself and through their eyes. I completely agree. Does that make sense?

But let's be clear. It's what you just said. It's drilled into your head. Which means that perception of you being a falsely confident person is coming from your head. It's not coming from the outside world. I don't doubt that it's been drilled into your head by external events. But this is something I want you guys to really understand. is that external events happen and then they drill into our head.

But where they live is in your head. They don't actually live in the outside world. They don't live in the way that other people continue to see you. Once something drills into your head, that's where it lives. And I'm not saying that it's inappropriate that it got drilled into your head. I think there's a, so real quick, to enter in here. So it's not that it's drilled in my head and I believe it. So when you ask the question, why do you think people are scared of you?

I'm trying to, I'm, when I answer that, it's not, I'm answering it through what they're telling me. I make sense. It makes sense, but just let me finish. So I agree with you. So I was going to get to this where I know you don't believe it. And yet you do. And we'll get to that.

Because I think it's really interesting. And I think it can be kind of confusing. But I just want to like highlight this point where like I completely agree. and if we listen to your fucking story, man, clearly the world has been sending you particular messages, which I think live there now, because you even tell us,

I'm really insecure. You say it all the fucking time, right? And so if we think about, like, why are you so insecure? Because you're also, you're insecure and you're confident at the same time. You really strike me as someone

who has a lot of genuine confidence, a lot of genuine compassion, a lot of genuine goodness, and a lot of genuine insecurity. And that seems like irreconcilable to most people because they think that you can't be confident and insecure and insecure at the same time. Whereas I think that's the way most people think. They think it's like a linear scale, but it's not. Yeah, it's not.

You can have parallel insecurity with parallel confidence. Well, I think to go further, I think in order to have confidence, you must become one or you must become or you have to accept your insecurities. Yeah, so we'll get there. Confidence, so I think the acceptance of insecurities and acceptance of imperfection, right? I completely agree. So I think your confidence comes. from the acceptance of some insecurities, but I think there's other stuff down there that is still affecting you in a negative way, which we'll get to. Okay. So we're going to get to this idea of like,

okay, I'm vilified no matter what I need, what I do. So I'm going to just actually highlight a couple of things which I think exhibit narcissistic defenses. I'm not calling you a narcissist, but it's just like when we're thinking about people who are narcissists, like what do they do, right? So one is that, Yes. You know, one is that you say that things are facts, right? Like you say like this is a fact. So, so like it, I mean, sort of. Like, yes, these events happened.

But like, you know, your perceptions of the way that people perceive you, you view as facts. Those are not actually facts. There are beliefs that are supported by evidence. Did a doctor actually come to you and say, hey, this guy has a protruding forehead? We need to do surgery. And I'm like, what the fuck, right? And so that is a factual thing. But then out of that experience train comes a belief that lives in your mind.

And then you start to think that that belief is a fact, right? Because it's supported by so much evidence. People like you had this deep voice, teachers told you, and then you're coming up to us and you're saying, look at all the evidence for what I believe. But oddly enough, train, I don't think it's actually a fact. I think all of those things happen to you. And I want you to just take a step out of your own shoes. And let's think about someone who thinks that they're ugly, for example, right? And like you talk to them and you say like, bro, you're not ugly, but they're like, no, this happened and then this happened.

And then this happened and this happened. I'm telling you, bro, I'm ugly. The entire world has told me this. There are so many facts that make me, I know I'm ugly. It's a fact. It's not a believer. Right? I'm fully on.

Yeah. I'm on same page. And so there are other things that you tend to do, which is like, Like, you know, I'm vilified no matter what, right? And like, that's kind of weird because then you also make these statements about they need me to be something. And like you talk a lot about what other people like need you to be. And so there's a really tricky. There's a really subtle ground there, which I genuinely trained.

I'm going to say you this again. I'm not just saying this is a disclaimer. I genuinely think you're like an awesome, compassionate, not narcissistic guy. But I think that you have an adaptation in there that is absolutely. something like narcissism, but I don't blame you for it. I think it's like just think about the life that you've lived. Unless you can be a little bit narcissistic, you would have been like smashed to pieces. I mean, you were smashed to pieces. Yeah. Right. And like it's the only way that you can survive, but that lingers with you. And we'll get to that in a second because I think that which has been

adaptive for you is now starting to be maladaptive. And we'll get to that. But, It kind of like there's this really tricky thing about like if you say I'm vilified no matter what they need me to be this. In a sense, you got to, it's dangerous territory. I'm not saying you do this. But I want everyone who sort of thinks this kind of stuff about themselves. So here's what I'm saying. So like I think I was talking. I don't know when we left off.

So I'm going to try to just recap real quick. Okay. So like if you think about people who have insecurities, right, they look and they think that like they call their insecurities facts. And what they do is they assemble all this evidence. Right? And they say like, oh, but this happened and then this happened and then this happened. And like, that's why, like, I'm not dumb for believing this. It's a fact. And I completely agree. I don't think you're dumb for believing it, but let's be clear that it's not necessarily a fact. It's just a belief. And it's a powerful belief. It's a justifiable belief. But it's still a belief. And now I want to get to this idea of like, I'm vilified no matter what. Because that's a really dangerous tightrope to walk. I sort of agree with what you're saying. But I think that there's a potential. for a different way to look at it, which is that when you start to say I'm vilified no matter what, it starts to discount who you actually are. Right?

You're saying that the connection between who I am and how the world treats me is completely independent. And so the tricky thing there is if you start to believe that about yourself, then in a weird way, you start to lack power over them and they chose to hate you anyway. that got drilled into your head and then you have that belief that's swimming around which is like you know like people don't like me and I'm vilified no matter what and the last thing that that I want to kind of point out here is that when you say I'm vilified no matter what and you say and I ask you how do you feel about that and you say it's kind of funny right if you really stop and think about it like that's not funny at all like if I

if I am talking to a kid and the kid says no matter what I do, my parents like hit me. I can't make them happy. Like that's not funny. Being vilified no matter what you do, like being, I know you've like donated and supported a bunch of streamers. You try to support your community. You're super authentic. Like I think you're genuinely a good guy. And for you to be treated like that is not funny.

And we kind of, we kind of even hear. like how that happens because then you say I've adapted to it right I thrive off of it I've adapted to being hated it's fuel for me and you start to feel uncomfortable when people like start to respect you and and that's where we get into really tricky territory because this is where sometimes a hypothesis could emerge here and one is that it reminds me of something called the repetition compulsion which is like this idea that we tend to like repeat things that are even kind of bad for us because we have this compulsion to do something over and over and over again. And what that means is that I really wonder actually whether you self-sabotage.

And what you're kind of saying is that like, you know, I felt really good after doing this this like fundraiser and you feel good about yourself and then two days later. And then I ask you what happens after that? And your response is I start to say stupid stuff. But I think in a weird way, I wonder whether what's going on is like it's uncomfortable territory for you and like you're way more comfortable being hated and we'll get to why that is and we even said that right like you said that like the hate fuels me and you kind of say that if we listen to the narrative what your narrative is is like being hated has been my source of

triumph it's how I grew as a person it's how I understand who I was it's how I like learn strength and like what my true value is it's also how you support other people because your message to other people is that if life is not treating you well and people aren't treating you well, you can grow past that. It's become such a core aspect of who you are to be hated and that your strength comes from being hated, which begs a very important question, which we'll get to later, which is like, what happens if you're not hated? And this is where I'm going to give you a little spoiler, right? So like, what is the one thing, train that I've said to you that you have not liked? That you pity me? Absolutely.

Right? And it's kind of weird because like, like, why do I pity you? Like, pity that comes from compassion. It comes from like, holy shit, man. Do you just realize like what your life is like? How is pity not an appropriate or fair response? And I think the reason you hate it so much is because like that, it's a different narrative. Because if we respond to you with compassion, then like this person that you become comes tumbling down. because this person was born of hate. It's strength through adversity. It's triumph. And you absolutely have, man. Don't get me wrong. I'm with you 100%. I think it's amazing what you've accomplished.

Because you could have gotten turned into like a little piece of nothing. You could have gotten bulldozed by the world, but you didn't let that happen. And the hate became part of your fuel. It became part of your strength. And so if I try to be compassionate towards you, if I try to pity you, which like,

frankly, bro, I mean, come on. like, what do you expect, man? You don't think that you deserved pity? You don't think that you people didn't mistreat you. And of course you do. And this is why I think these things can exist in parallel. But I think it's challenging because if I pity you, then the adaptation that you've created for yourself

doesn't hold anymore. And now it becomes really, really dangerous territory. And one of the things that just pops into my head is like, what would have happened to you if you were 15 and one person came up to you. And maybe this did happen. And we can explore that down the road. But it's just kind of a hypothesis.

I still have other things I want to say. If one person came up to you and be like, man, it's really shitty how other people are treating you. You don't deserve to be treated this way. It's not your fault. I would take care of them to the end of time. To me, that's loyalty. And that's just like decent.

That's being good. You say that, right? And if I, but if I say that to you, if I say, train, you didn't deserve that. I'm sorry this happened to you. What's your response to that? I would say, I appreciate it, but it's not a big deal. I got through it. Exactly, right?

So, like, that's what I'm saying. I ask you hypothetically if this had happened, you say one thing. And then I actually say it to you and your response to something else. Do you see that? Yes. And it's really strange, right? Like, it's like, like you expect one thing to happen, but you don't have. actually respond that way. You don't actually respond that way to compassion. I mean, you have,

because I think that's why you treasure Hafu so much, is because she said something to you that was incredibly validating, right? She said they treat you this way because of what you, like, you know, so, so we'll get, we'll get there. I think it's just something we can explore down the road. Yep. Um, yeah, I mean, I think that, yeah, so like the other thing is that I think we is Twitch, we actually propagate a lot of this stuff in a way that is not good for you. And the best example that I can think of is when you went to the bathroom, boy, did we have a field day with it? Right.

And I think it's interesting because you've become such a strong person and you've learned how to laugh it off. But I still think that like, you know, we're fucking toxic to you, man. Right? And that's not okay. even though you laugh it off, like when you go into the bathroom and people start making jokes about you snorting lines of coke, like we all laugh about it, right? And it's okay. But I think on some level, that hurts. On some level that hurts. You've just learned how to deal with that hurt so well. And in fact, as you've said, you use that hatred as fuel. You use that hurt as fuel. And I know you're okay with it because you joke about it. But I think on some level. No, you're right. So because I've started banning it recently. So I'm, if you're joking about it, I'm cool with the joke. The problem is there are people now that they're using it as something to devalue the work I put in, right?

So those are the people I'm trying to get away from. So like if you use it as an inside joke within the community, I'm cool with it. I understand it. You know, it's funny. I'm going in the back. You know, every second I'm coming back doing long streams. It's funny. The problem is there are people that are now using it to devalue.

the work I put in or devalue a lot of different things that I do. And at the end of the day, I know deep down, they know I'm not doing it, but it's all they have to grab onto that's negative at that moment. They do. Those are the people I try to get out of the community. And I ban them for misusing it. Does that make sense?

I think that makes a lot of sense. And I still think that on some level, even the more benign jokes, even if it's not intended to, hurt and we're saying it all in good fun and we take that cue from you, I think that you think things that are like objectively painful are kind of funny. And I think that like we need to be more careful and I'm certainly going to be more careful about joining in when you're self-deprecating. Right. And if you really stop and think about it, and this happens a lot where like you put yourself

down and then everyone else puts you down too and then like you guys all have a good laugh about it. and it feels protective, but at the core of that is like a tiny insecurity that people are reinforcing. Right? It's kind of like if you're the fat kid in the group, and then everyone's like, oh, ha, ha, this person is the fat kid.

Right? And you're like, ha, because like, that's how we learn how to adapt, right? We're like, if you can't beat them, join them. And then you join them in making fun of yourself. And then, like, you're still making fun of yourself, but you're not alone anymore, right? At least you've got a team.

You guys are all joking about something together. and that can feel really good. It can feel like you're not isolated anymore. It's why this dynamic happens all the time. But at this end of the day, there's still a group of people yourself included who are like making fun of you for being fat. Right. On some level, I really hypothesize that there's something there that's actually like we're bullying you and you're giving us permission to. And there's something about that when I really stop and think about it, like I think that needs to change.

and can I can I just keep going? Yes. Okay. So the other thing that I want to get to is like this thing when you punched someone and then you suddenly became popular, right? Like you were crying in the bathroom every day and then you punch this kid and then suddenly you're the hottest shit in the world. And like you rode that and you took advantage of it. But I think that actually sends a really dangerous message, which goes back to I'm vilified no matter what. Because then you realize it's the same fucking message, which is that who I am as a person, does not determine how other people treat me.

I'm vilified no matter what, and I'm respected for all the wrong reasons. Both of them are very dangerous messages. With one, you're on top and with one you're on bottom, and one of them seems really positive, and one of them feels really toxic. I think they're both equally bad. Because what that reinforced for you is that respect does not come from your actions.

It doesn't come from your intentions. It doesn't come from what you do. it just comes from random ass shit. And hatred also comes from random ass shit that is outside of my control. And so I think that's a dangerous mask to reinforce. It's a dangerous world view to have. Agreed. And then you know, you kind of keep on talking about like it happens all over, like in the ninth grade and then like later on and with Ethan or whatever.

And so I think like these themes about, you know, who you are and how. other people appreciate you or how other people treat you and who you truly are, there's like a fundamental disconnect there. And I think it puts you in a really tricky spot because at this point, like, I don't think you can take the mask off. I don't think you can stop being adaptive in this way because because like the converse of it is like terrifying. And I'm telling you, Train, and I know this is going to be triggering for you, but like,

I'm telling you like, you deserve pity, man. Like, what the fuck? Listen, just think about the story that you've told us. And imagine that someone in your view, you do these things, you do these streams where like your viewers call in, right? And like they tell you and you try to help them through their problems. And if anyone had told you this story, you would respond to them with compassion and pity. But you'll be damned if anyone responds to you that way. Which goes back to narcissism because you're different.

And this is really interesting because I think these things exist in parallel. I don't think they're actually like in conflict. You recognize that you are a normal person. And you believe that to the core of your being. You shit just like everyone else. You eat just like everyone else. You have good days and you have bad days just like everyone else. But then parallel to that is this overwhelming story that you have in your mind that you're not like everyone else.

and you have so much evidence for that. When other people, when someone looks at someone else, and it's the soda popin story, right? Like, they get the benefit of the doubt, but you don't get the benefit of that. You've got the sloping forehead. They called you T-Rex. You know, fucking doctor told you to get surgery on your forehead.

And how can you say that you're like everyone else? Because your entire life, you've been told that you're different. You've been judged for being different. You've been judged for shit that you did not do. you've been judged unfairly. And how can you say like you're like everyone else? And you tell us over and over and over again that I'm different, right? And like, like, so it's weird because those two things exist in parallel as well.

And can I keep going? We good? Yeah, please. Yeah. So like, like then there's just a couple of other just kind of random thoughts, right? Like at the height of the emotional bullying, you said, like, I, like, like, I, like, like, Like when you were kind of talking about it, you said, like, I was an idiot, right? Like when people were treating you so bad, you say, I was an idiot.

I was dumb and I was nice to them. And it was confusing to them. And that sort of like really rubs me the wrong way because I don't doubt that on some level it's stupid. But like, I think there's something really self-deprecating about hauling yourself an idiot when people are being vitriolic towards you. you're saying I was dumb because I was nice to them. I don't think that was dumb. I think that's like that's you, your true character shining through.

And it's so devastating because this is a time in your life where people are treating you badly and you're like the essence of like turning the other cheek and trying to be nice to them and trying to be like a good person and you get punished for it. And holy shit, what does that tell you about goodness in the world?

Right? It paints a really bleak picture. That you were nice to your abuser. And like that sounds like a fucking abusive relationship, right? Where it's like, you know, someone abuses you and you're like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, let me bake you a cake. And I think this is going to be hard for you to hear because you don't, that's too victim card, right? Like, you don't want to own that you were a victim.

Like you want to own that you were a victim and you've risen above me, but you don't want anyone spitting. And I think that like this is really tricky because like I think there's a nuance here where I wish you lived in a world train where I could pity you and still respect you. And I think that's what it comes down to. That I can pity you and I actually respect you all the more because of what happened. But don't take away my right to be compassionate because you've been hurt and that you didn't deserve it. And that the world does treat me differently. And that's what's so fucking heartbreaking, man, is because on the inside, you're exactly the same as everyone else, and you keep telling us that over and over and over again. And on the outside, no one treats

you like everyone else, your voice, your stature. And what is it like to live a life where you are like everyone else, but no one treats you like everyone else? Where you're vilified no matter what. Like, if that doesn't deserve pity, and if that isn't, heartbreaking and if that isn't soul-crushing, I don't know what it's. And so this is where I think the last thing, I've got like just one or two other thoughts. And one is like this whole thing about devaluing pity and you're like, I don't want y'all to throw me a pity party. And I was like, bro, that's exactly what you deserve. If anyone on this earth deserves a pity party, it's you.

Right? And like, I wish you could get to the point where like you could understand that you deserve pity and you deserve people saying like, man, that sucks for you. that like even earlier I asked you like what would you have said back then if someone said you don't deserve this and you've been like I would have tried to that person forever and then when I say it you're like I'm insulted right that I mean it's it's like apples and oranges

because you won't let us you won't let us say that to you you reject it from us you don't want us to throw a pity party but this is the thing I want you to understand this if you can that if we throw you a pity party

it doesn't mean that you we're devaluing any of your accomplishments. I think it's like, I think both of those can exist, right? We can say, train, like, I mean, you were fucking bullied your entire fucking life. Right? And you have a lot of things to be grateful for in life. You had really supportive parents. You had really awesome parents.

Right? You can really, like, have a supportive community and Twitch loves you. And at the same time, like, we can also hold these two contrary truths because you hold them in yourself every day that you're confident and you're insecure. you're genuinely confident and you're a pile of insecurities. And so what I'd love for you to do is to actually just be confident, to let go of those insecurities. And I think the reason you can't let go of those insecurities

is because you've built a narrative of yourself of triumph and hate is what propels me forward. So you can't get anything from us except for hate because it's terrifying because if we stop hating you, then where does your fuel come from? Where does your strength come from? Where does your triumph come from? And that's why you hate being pity, because we like, if we turn that hate into love, then your adaptive strategy in life gets no fuel.

And where this becomes maladaptive is that if you propagate that hatred by saying an off-color thing or things like that, and I think you really struggle with this, and we'll see, maybe this is where I'm really walking on shaky ground. Is that like that's your fuel, right? So I think on some level, you probably do some things to self-sabotage. Because that's what we do. When we build up adaptive mechanisms early in life and we figure out, okay, hatred fuels me like, how on earth just think about that completely hypothetically for a second. If I tell you, train, there's a guy who's triumph and success and strength and self-worth

are born of hatred of other people. Do you think that person is going to do something to evoke hatred? It's interesting, right? Possibly. Yeah. Because that's how you fill up your gas tank. And I think if we think about moving forward for you, right? So I get that this is all a house of cards that I'm building, right? So it could be all fucking wrong.

So I accept that. But if I think about moving forward for you, I think that you've got to understand that like some of these conceptions that you have for the world were absolutely what you needed to survive. Absolutely put you where you are today. And you can let them go. what I imagine is that when you were when you went into middle school you reached a river and then you built this raft and you used the raft to cross the river and then you looked at yourself and you said you know what without that raft I would have never crossed this river so now that you're on the other

bank you pick up the raft you put it above your head and you start walking and then people are like trained why are you carrying that raft around and you're like without the raft I would have never crossed the river and it's like yeah man, but you cross the river. You don't need it anymore. You don't need to have your strength be fueled by hatred of other people because you have intrinsic value that is so much more than that. You don't need their hate anymore. You've grown past it. You just don't need it. Like, you're amazing because of who you are. Your strength may be born of hatred or been fueled by hatred, but now that adaptation has become maladaptive.

And I don't know. I don't know if you self-sabotage yourself, but this is the kind of thing that leads to self-sabotage, hypothetically. This is what I've seen. That you start to build a narrative about yourself that is positive and protective in so many ways, but is built on a foundation of rot.

And you just think about, I don't know if you have kids or not, but like you think about your parents or you think about the kids that you're going to have one day or the kids that you already have. I don't, yeah. And do you, like, what would your dad say or what would your mom say,

if you said, you know, I need hatred to succeed. And would they want that kind of life for you? Because here's the crazy thing, train, here's the crazy thing. I think that your strength is not born of hatred. I think your strength is just you, baby.

It's just you. And it's not that the hatred is where your strength comes from. It's that you're so fucking strong and hatred was so ubiquitous. for such a long part of your life that you started to tie those two things together. You got bullied over and over and over again and you rose above it. And so then you look back and you say without hatred, I would be no wonder.

Whereas I say you were something before that hatred and the hatred tried to knock you down and it failed. And I think the more that you start to think in that way, the more you realize you don't need hatred. You don't need to be provocative. And I think you know that, right? And like this is the weird thing is that the crazy thing is that. the crazy thing is that you have within you two trains right one is the train that we all see

and one is the train who walked into the sixth grade with your shoes and your glasses and whatnot that kid you carry that kid with you and that's your insecurity the kid who walked up to your friend and said hey can i eat lunch with you and he's like you don't get to eat lunch with us when you look at your an image of yourself and you see false confidence that's the who gives you that impression. I don't see false conference. I see real conference. That's the kid that I protect.

Does that make sense? Absolutely. That's the kid that I have to be strong for, right? So it doesn't happen to other. So like I am, I see myself as a, I don't know. So here's the problem, train. When you protect that kid, that kid can never get confident in themselves. You fight that battle for that kid.

You've got to stop protecting that kid. That kid is stronger than you think. But you never give him a chance. That's what I'm saying. You think you have to protect. That kid is the source of your strength, man. It's not hatred. He's the one who's been strong from the beginning.

And the only problem is that kid doesn't know that he doesn't need your help. Because you never give him a chance to like explore it. You never let him play on the field so he never realizes what he's going to have. All he sees himself is that I'm the kid who's in the bathroom And I've got trained the guy who broke that guy's nose He's gonna protect me and you're both of those people But he's stronger than you know because he's fucking you

Those are the same kid Yeah You don't need to protect him. He doesn't need your protection I know it's weird That's what I've got Yeah That was about yeah yeah Yes

Yes Yes Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, yeah, you know, it's, it's not that I don't think the kid, that kid is weak. It's that I know I was that kid and I know what I went through to get to who I am today. And it's not that I use hate as fuel. It's that I know how to transfer it into positivity because of the love, my parents gave me. So I got so even though when I was bullied, I was loved equally or greater by my parents at home. Without their love, I would probably become some sort of fucking serial killer by now with how much I was pushed around. Right. So it's their love that that's why you see that's why you see so many parallels that are completely contradictory to each other. It's because at home my parents gave me everything that they could every like they gave me a love, than love itself. And then at school, I got the darkest of hate. So that's where the two sides

built up, these two polarizing sides, where I saw society for what it was in that moment. And I saw what controlled it, what manipulated it. One punch, suddenly, I'm the greatest human being. And any deed I do is seen as, you know, the hero, the hero we need. But before I could do, the greatest of things, and I'm a fucking loser. But because I punch the right kid in the nose, I am the hero we need. I am for the people. And that is just the most disgusting way.

And that's just the way. I see that today still, though. Today, to this very day, that is how I see society work. That is how I see the general public accept different people. And it makes no sense to me. So it's not the fact that I'm carrying this around. for no reason.

Everything that happened to me in that day, in those days, it's not that it's still happening to me. It's that I see that it's, that's how people are operating. Train, train, bro. Right. Exactly. So let me just repeat to you what you said. It's not that I'm carrying it around for no reason.

You're damn right. And that's why it's hard to put it down. Because you have a really good reason. You learned a lot about the world. and that's why it's hard to let it go. Right? Because you have, like, that's it, man. And I don't know how, like, I think your conception of yourself is perfect.

Like, you're right. I think you saw unconditional love on one side and unconditional hate on the other. And those were polar opposites. And I think what you've got to do is, is like learn to integrate. And very simply, very simply train. You could say whatever you want to, you can hypothesize, psycho. analyze, whatever. At the end of the day, if you cannot accept the pity and compassion of another person, that's a problem. I can't accept it under one thing, though. And this could be crazy,

but I don't think it is. I can accept pity and compassion if it's coming from someone that understands. But if I'm just accepting pity and compassion for the sake of it being the right thing to do, but there was no understanding, I find that as a cheap pity. It's something that it's not going to fix. The only way we fix what's going on is through understanding what's going on. So if you want to have pity because you understand what's going on and that pity is coming from a place of meaning, then I'll accept that. And I will be very happy and I'll take care of you, right? Because that's, that's very meaningful to me.

I've never felt like I've never deserved it. But if you see that and you feel that, then I appreciate that. But if it's just this, you know, I feel like pity these days is like a fucking birthday card, right? it's like no one actually means the happy birthday man like hey i'm happy you're here no one means it's just a hey happy birthday bro i mean it's just like a thing that you've been you know a program to say every birthday regardless of if you even know the fucking who individual right there's a difference between meaning it understanding it being about it than just saying it because you're programmed to say because society's programmed you to do it right so it's that pity that i don't accept

because i know they don't truly care or understand what they mean when they're saying they pity me for what's going on, right? And it's that. I don't want to encourage or perpetuate that because that is the very problem that led me to be where I am. Yeah, yeah. Makes perfect sense.

So now we're going on to dangerous territory. And by dangerous territory, what I mean is that I think we're quickly reaching the point where the problem is subtle and I'm going to amplify it, but I don't think it's a big problem or arguably it is. Okay? So does that make sense?

Like, I'm going to make a mountain out of a mole hill here, but I'm going to do it on purpose. go ahead so the problem is that you got to just really pay attention okay because when you say i can accept pity from someone who understands makes perfect sense i'm with you right what's wrong about that that there's a lot of false pity in the world and that everything is like birthday cards instead of like authentic it's like sort of you know virtue signaling kind of stuff i'm with you there too now why is this a problem for you it's a problem because you got to remember that like in your mind there's a fundamental disconnect

between how the world perceives you and how you feel you are. And you believe that the world fundamentally misperceives you and that you're vilified no matter what. Upon first impression, yes. And so the real challenge there is that coming from such a skeptical, it's been drilled into you.

I love that phrase. it's been drilled into you that people are going to misjudge you and not give you the benefit of the doubt. And the problem with that is that if you doubt other people's judgments of you, I think there's a lot of authentic pity and compassion that you view as a birthday card. Well, just to clarify, I don't say any of these things out, right? It'd be very rude to, like, discount someone's compassion,

but it's kind of like a vibe you feel, right? I understand. I'm not talking about you saying anything. What I'm saying is that like, like, so there's a kid crying in the bathroom who still lingers in you and manifests like he bubbles up is insecurities. Right. And what I'm saying is like I think that there's a layer. I mean, you've done phenomenal training. You've done amazing.

You're a statistical outlier. So you don't need to do anything else. You can just keep being you, baby. You're beautiful. And at the same time, I envision a world where you could live with fewer of those insecurities. I envision a world where that fucking relentless thought process of self-judgment and sounding stupid and are people following you and you worrying so much of that where you could be freed of that and you can just talk.

Where you can understand that like sometimes you're going to stay stupid shit for the most part what comes out of your mouth is like intelligent and understandable and has value and people could see you for that. That's what I'm talking about in terms of forward momentum. to be free of that insecurity. I'm not saying the insecurity screws you. I'm not saying it holds you back from succeeding in life. I'm not saying that you're not, you're a force for good in spite of that insecurity.

So right now, your adaptation has been so much in spite of something negative, right? Strength in spite of toxicity. Now, you think that maybe the toxicity fuels the strength, I think it's in spite up. And what I'm saying is that the next. layer which is more subtle because you're not you're not unable to have a job and things like that, right? A lot of people like

forward momentum is like really concrete for them. They need to find a job. They need to find a relationship, whatever. I think you've got a lot of stuff solved. At least as far as I can tell. But the next level and this is challenging is really more spiritual growth. It's about unburdening your mind of this insecurity.

And I think the way to do that has something to do with accepting people's pity. It has something to do with letting go of the perception that people don't give you the benefit of the doubt, even though it could be true. I don't doubt it's been true. I mean, obviously, right? But at the same time, like, you don't, the insecurity,

so that can be true, but the conditioning that that creates in your mind does not have to be true, if that makes sense. The external fact in the world can be true, but the scars that that, does for you can be let go. And that I feel very strongly, right? You can be a physically ugly person. You can be someone that is not desired by people that you're attracted to. And you can also let go.

You can accept that fact and still feel good about yourself. We all have weaknesses. We all have shortcomings. Right? Like, yes. And like that can be a fact. actual statement of truth without it creating like these scars in your mind which you carry around. And that's what I want you to let go.

I'm not going to dispute that your voice is deep. I'm not going to dispute that you have a prominent forehead and a prominent nose. You know, I'm not going to dispute. Fine. But whatever that means to you, I dispute. Because disputing that is useless. Like, I think you should look like you. Yeah.

me too that's why i don't change them that that's why i like the way they are i think it's just me i'm a stepping outside of me to explain to you what i think others see it's not necessarily a so i under so i understand like on a simple level why that would be a projection on my own insecurities within but here's why i believe it's not so everything i told you of why i believe others feel the way they do about me isn't a projection of insecurity of my own things it's literally five six years of trial and error research like my research i mean like a light-hearted like asking like yo what's going on here what's up right like does that make any sense it seems as if it seems like so for example that the the example you gave earlier of you know calling the person fat or whatever

right it seems like what is said about me or what I'm told I am that's negative, if I accept it, then it's like, okay, good. Thank God he sees it. If I don't accept it, it's like, oh, you're a terrible, fucking cocky, narcissistic person, right? And then somebody else, right? Let's go to someone else that's not in my shoes, right? If someone says something terrible and they accept it, it's like, no, don't say that about yourself. You're good, right? That pity naturally, the instinctive pity of a decent person automatically turns on, it's like, no, don't say about yourself, you're good, you're not this, you're not that, you're not this.

But in my situation, from most of my experiences, it's like I need to accept the fact that I am this thing that people are telling me. And if I don't, then I'm some cocky evil monster that needs to be put down a notch. This is like countless time and time again. Now, do I have positive reinforcement of my community? Yes. Do I have positive people in my life? Yes.

Do I have comments that are very nice to me? 100%. I'm not referring to people who have gotten the time to know me. People that have gotten to time to know me have said the things that you say, obviously on a much more like just simpler level. Obviously, your assessment is flattering and very nice and it's a lot more complex and I like that. But they do support. It's, I'm, everything I'm referring to, I'm referring to the first time impressioners. I'm referring to first impression on this site and in this world, first impression is everything.

And what I'm saying is there is no first impression that comes from me. It's an automatically, like, it's something that's just in their mind. It's like they look at me and it automatically fear is instilled within them. And there's this thing where I need to be brought down instantly. I need to be brought down a notch. This guy is too cocky. Does that make any sense? It makes a lot of sense.

So, train, I'm going to have to get going because I have to cover for, we have a thing where we train. I mean, sorry, support our coaches. So I have to do some coaching support. Round four then next week? Two weeks. Reach out to Zank. But I want to just leave this with you. So I don't disagree at all because you're talking about other people's impressions of you.

So here's what I want you to look at. Okay. I'm not concerned about that. Yeah, yeah. What I'm concerned about and what I'd love for you to pay attention to is your reaction to that. It's your conditioning to that. it's how does it feel to be a human being

who walks this earth and when people look at him you're like a hunchback oh complete shit yeah complete shit and like that's that's what we've got to like because when you when you sit with like when you kind of think

about that like that's the kid like I gotta think that there's some overlap between that feeling and like the way you felt when your when your friend Tyler comes turns to you and you Oh, no, it's the same feeling. It's the same feeling. Yeah, you're right.

It's a perfect overlap. It's the same thing, yes. So here's the crazy thing, man. That feeling doesn't come from the way that they look at you. That feeling is an echo of Tyler telling you that. It's the feeling that you carry with you. That's the raft, my dude. So you're saying that no matter how much people doubt me, hate me or whatever,

I don't need to feel the way that I do. I can just be like, oh, fuck, who gives a shit? Like, are you saying I can get to that point? I'm like, I fuck him. It's not even off. Fuck them. You're not going to have that reaction. That's the raft you're carrying.

You've been carrying that raft ever since you walked into the bathroom and ate that lunch on the first day. You were judged unfairly. That feeling of unfair judgment irrespective of how you look. It's the raft, bro, and you can set that down. I know it's mind-boggling, but that's exactly what I'm saying. Yes. You can live a life where you can meet another person. and the first thought in your head is not, oh, shit.

Now I have to do this thing where they're going to judge me and I have to, like, wait until they get to know me. You can live a life. That's what, that is. That's what I'm saying. Listen, I have to literally, in these new groups, I have to like literally, I have to, like, I have to like talk like this. I'm like, oh, no, you're good, man.

Like, everything's okay. Like, I have to do that. Otherwise, I'm just automatically this terrible asshole, right? Like, I can't be like, hey, my man, that's not. not cutting it. Like that suddenly is, I'm at war. But I'd be like, yo, you're good. Don't worry about a man. Like everything's okay. I have to do this like reinforcement lower higher my pitch of my voice. It's this weird shit. I don't understand it. But the fact that I do it and it works proves everything that I'm saying. Like what the fuck? Yeah. So, so train. I just, I just, I'll understand how

like frustrating that is that like all my actions. Listen, all of my actions are thrown out. And then the entire cure to it all is to hire my voice a little bit. Come off less. Less. confident and suddenly I'm a good person now. But all my actions that prove otherwise to my physical features are irrelevant. They're thrown out. It doesn't matter. Dude, do you imagine as I do something that makes people feel better about that? Yeah, do you realize how shitty it is to live a life where instead of being yourself, you have to be some caricature of what you think other people want? It's exhausting. Like, what do you think I mean when I say you're carrying a raft around? It's heavy. And you carry it every day.

And what I'm telling you is if that feeling is exactly the same, this is just the way the mind works. It's an echo. If you go back and you help that kid, that feeling will dissolve. Like, what do you think processing a trauma is? Like, literally, there's a field of treatment for PTSD. But doesn't that, but doesn't that in itself, before we wrap up here, doesn't that in itself, the mere fact, like even if I put the raft down, let's say put the raft down and I

stop caring about it or stop reacting to it. I'm going to ask this question. That very effect that is coming from what I just explained, how all of my actions are thrown out. Who cares at the action? It's about the talk. It's about how you present yourself in a superficial form that dictates whether people believe in you, trust you, or like you. Like, does not itself kind of show you how primitive and barbaric we as humans are in a way, like on a certain layer? Like, like, I can put the raft down as much as we want, but it doesn't change the fact that this is the, this is, this is what is resulting, right? Like, this is happening. How does it, I'll ask you for the third and final time.

How does it feel to be vilified no matter what you do? It pisses me the fuck off. It's not funny. Yeah. No, it pisses me the fuck off. It legitimately pisses me off. Right. It makes me angry.

It makes me angry. it makes me mad. Yeah. Now we're getting somewhere. Yeah. It makes me very, very angry. No, it's because what people want, what I'm sorry to cut you off, what I hear people want is directly contradictory to, to, to their own actions. So let me explain what I mean by that.

Right. People want a world where they're accepted. People want a world where, you know, good is done. where people are taking care of, where people are being nice to each other, right? They want that, but they don't realize that they are the very problem that is stopping them from having what they want themselves. Do you understand? What's it like to grow up in a world surrounded by those kinds of people?

But it's all of us. Every human being, if they came to this understanding and awareness of themselves. What's it like to grow up in a world surrounded by other people like that? Fucking infuriating. Absolutely. Now we're getting somewhere. but I can't do anything about it. So that's why I just try to stay consistent with my actions.

And in the back of my mind, I keep that hate and anger. I do not accept. I do not accept that you can't do anything about it. Well, I do slang about it. But what I'm saying is I can't insert it into their minds. Like they're going to learn in 20 years of time. You don't need to do shit in their minds. Solving this problem comes from here.

It comes from you. I know it sounds absolutely crazy. But I guess we're going to have to have this comment. finish this conversation later. So I'll just leave you with that. And I think if you feel fury, now we're getting somewhere, right? Because that's a feeling that's buried beneath all the niceness

towards the bullies that treated you that way. And like that's, it's there, bro. And like, you got to let that, that's a raft you've been carrying around for a long time. Hovered by, yeah. This is,

if you want to know the truth, the unboxing of how I feel, put into this like metaphor or analogy, this is what it is. Okay. Who I am is the kid before the kid that I was before I punched that kid in the face. I am that kid, the one before the punch, right? The kid that punched in the face and suddenly got all the credibility is what I see so many people in today's world as, right? For some reason, they, there's something that.

that they have or they get that gives them all the credibly, but they have none of the actual intention or action that, like, solidifies what people think they are. And no one cares that there is no action. It's like the talk is enough, but then all of their philosophies are action is greater than talk. But they don't, they don't hold that accountable for anyone that they are already like, it's so hard for me to explain this.

Like, what I'm trying to say is, what I'm trying to say is, it seems like the people who are punching in the face, the people who are somehow the cool kid, they're still winning. They're still winning. And then the genuine good that are actually doing good through action, they may look ugly,

they may look terrible, they may look evil, they may say a couple of cuss words and fuck yous and suck my cocks. But they're the ones that are, the heroes are the heroes in today's world that are brought up are the true villains. And the villains that are seen as, villains are the true heroes and it's that mere it's it's that it's that is why our world is where is

where it is where it is it does it does that under you understand it's like so i'm going to ask you a question and then you tell me whether i understand okay i'm not i'm it's going to be hard because i really have to run but yeah how does it feel to be to try to be a good person in the world and to be vilified for it right it feels honestly this is what it feels like every day I continue to do what I do regardless of being vilified because I'm wired that way. It's just how I am. But it's disheartening. But I don't know.

I'm just. Okay. So this is like we'll get there, right? So this is what we've got to explore. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I got to run, change.

Really. I'm sorry. I have to cover for someone else's on vacation. But okay, cool. I think we're actually at a good stopping point. I'm sure we can go on. But we'll come back to this exact point. Okay.

Can someone in chat? Real quick, can someone in chat clip this? I've the best idea. If someone clips this last 56 seconds, next show, we can we can play it and see where we left off exactly. Train. So let me. Yeah.

Okay. We can do that. But I think we're going to get here. Don't worry. However we get here, wherever we start trained, we're going to. to come back here. Okay. This is this is who you are. This is how you see the world. And it's going to it's going to shine through. We can talk about whatever you want to and we'll get back here. Okay. So thanks a lot, man. Absolutely loved it. I think incredibly courageous of you.

I think, you know, to do this. I think personally I'm going to be a little bit more careful about, you know, taking a jab at you and making fun of you. Oh, it's all in good fun. Nah, you're good. Believe me. You're completely good. You can do all jabs, all everything. The only thing I ask of you if you do is, listen, you jab at me, I'm jabbing back. Yeah, fair enough, right? Okay, cool. As long as that's okay, I'm cool with it. Okay. Well, listen, train, seriously, man, I think it's awesome what you've accomplished, given where you come from and stuff like that. And I really do think that you can be more free. You can be more free than you are. Absolutely possible. Maybe. And we'll try to figure that out next time.

So good luck to you. Round four. You two, brother. Are you streaming now? Are you still streaming? Are you going to stop? I'm going to go live in like 30, 40 minutes. Okay.

Okay. Take care of you. Bye. All right. You too, brother. I'll talk to you soon. Bye.