HealthyGamerGG - Talking with Jake'n'Bake about Anxiety

Episode Date: June 11, 2020

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Do I call you Jake and Bake or Jake or? Jake's spot. Jake is fine. Okay. So Jake, can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what we're talking about today? Sure. Wait, is that one question? Or two questions.

Oh. Very exorbitant to you. Okay. Yeah, my name's Jake. And I'm from L.A. Okay. And I, um, I, I stream on Twitch.

I'm known primarily for like IRL streaming or outdoor streaming. I lived in Japan for almost three years and started doing IRL streaming out there. And then it kind of turned into what I do now, which is kind of crazy. Also fast. And yeah, a lot of people know me for being out in Japan. But I recently moved back home to L.A. just to kind of make a home base again. Okay.

In the midst of kind of weird times. But yeah, so I'm back home. Cool. And yeah, what we're talking about today, I think is, I actually have, I mean, I think it's just general, like, anxiety stuff. Sure. I struggled with it once when I was like 19 or so, and I kind of did some stuff myself. And I actually, I totally got over it.

And I was, I'm good. And then in the past couple years, I'll say like maybe a year and a half or two years. After streaming, I definitely, it's kind of came back and taken hold. And I can, like, feel it. And I kind of know the, the, I, I know. I know what it feels like when I have because I had it before. So now it's kind of like here and lingering. And yeah, I don't know.

Just that's, I think. Yeah, I think that's what we're going to be talking about. I've never talked to anybody about it like professionally ever. So I've no idea or expectation. You know, that's it. Let me see if I can. I had a feeling something like this might have it. Let me see if I.

So that's really cool, Jake. So you said that you struggled with anxiety for a little bit when you were 19 and then it got better. and then maybe it's gotten good, or it started to come back a little bit since you started streaming. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I guess, yeah, sure. Okay. That's okay.

And can you tell me just a little bit about how you decided to go to Japan? Sure. I went to university in L.A. and then after university, I had an opportunity to study Chinese in China for two years. So I went there for two years. And I came back to L.A. and actually started working at a startup for a year. And after a year, I was like, I just felt like I was the most alive when I was kind of abroad and uncomfortable and learning something. And I just, I mean, decided to save up some money, quit my job and go to Japan for one year to study Japanese, in which case I just started streaming when I went there. And then that one year of Japanese learning turned

into me streaming now for, you know, however many years and everything kind of like one aiding based on, you know, one aiding, one aiding from what I thought, you know, what would happened. What did you think would happen? I mean, my original plan was go for years, study Japanese use, come back home and just continue working with hopefully, like, just a more built up or improved version of myself, you know, with another language ability or something and just continue working, you know. But yeah, I've been just kind of writing. Can you tell me what, what IRL streaming or like, like outdoor streaming or what is that? And what were you streaming?

in Japan. Yeah. That sounds like a lot fun. I mean, yeah, it's crazy fun. IRL streaming is, some people say in your life. I call it incorporating real life. But it's just, you know, streaming outdoors, whether it be, it doesn't have to be outdoors, I'm sorry, but something that is,

could be, I guess like a real life experience. That's my idea is like streaming a real life experience. So for me, I wanted to base it around like, okay, I wanted to kind of stream my life as it developed in Japan because I went out by myself. I didn't have any friends and I wanted to kind of stream that experience for everyone, which I think people started the light. Cool. And so are you still streaming in LA? Yeah. So I moved back. I mean, the idea was to move back because everything kind of has changed more into like traveling and exploring on more of a like a little bit more planned content type of stuff.

So my deal is just to have a home base and travel from here quite often, actually. But yeah, we're still streaming. I mean, doing a lot more computer streams now. But just for the time being while the world kind of settles down, I think. And, yeah. Yeah, so everything's still the same. Yeah, we're still streaming. Yeah, just formats a little bit different.

And can you tell me a little bit about when you said that you had anxiety when you were 19? Like, that's quite specific. Can you tell me what? Yeah. what was going on or what you mean by them? Sure. Yeah, I've always kind of referenced this on my stream, I guess, but I think I was like 18 or 19,

and I had really bad anxiety, which I didn't know at the time what it was when I first started feeling how I felt. And how did you, what did you feel? Can you tell us that? Yeah, so at that time, it was a very like, it was a feeling of like constant, like nervousness and I don't know the words like fear but I was just a very worried person at the time

and I mean I don't know if I want to talk like the I mean I guess the root of the worry or what I really felt at that time was like I didn't go outside I wouldn't go outside to like a big public events I wouldn't like I wouldn't I always worry about weird things like like what I don't know oh gosh it's okay to have irrational thoughts yeah sure i mean i would worry about things like if i went out to a public event and i would always have like stomach aches and like nervous stomach i'm like oh what if i can't find a bathroom or like where's the exit at a at a movie theater like it would be weird like i would go to movie theater and i'd have to know where the exits are where the bathroom is like kids had to go to the bathroom

it sounds really weird but uh it's not that weird but we'll get to that in a second yeah sure um yeah it those were like the i would say the surface feelings i would have about okay anxiety that time. And it was kind of like, I don't know the words like debilitate. Is that the word? Debilitating? Sure. So it would impair you. Yeah, it would definitely affect like my normal life. And what's crazy about that is that growing up, I was always like happy, go lucky. And like when people would mention anxiety in high school, I'd be like, like, what's that? Like, what are you talking about? Dude, like, just don't worry so much. But like, like, it just hit me like kind of randomly. And I was like, at first I thought it was a physical problem. So I went to the doctor and like, oh, you're fine. And I was like, and then I had to kind of figure it out. And it took a

bit of steps and a lot of like self-realizations and like mindset changes actually and I think I really grew a lot out of that when I came out of that and can you tell us about that steps what were the steps sure um at the time I kind of slowly realized after like doing my little research and talking to my friends like okay I think I just am struggling from anxiety like this word and I never talked to anybody really about it except for my best friends um and basically after I realized what it was. I just would look up different, what's the word? Not solutions, but like different things that people would do to kind of get over their anxiety. And I would just try the little ones like meditating or just, um, what else did you try? Or what seemed to work? Um, for me,

it was kind of just trying to find what the root of it was and just like a little weed that was in there and like dig it out like just attack it head first and figure out what is their root cause and figure that out and then like have a total mindset change that actually kind of like got me out of it what do you think was the root um so what i think the root was at that time was i was fearing the future i was fearing things like death like not specifically like oh my god i'm afraid of die tomorrow like i wasn't like that but it was definitely some weird fear and i think it was because i was actually brought up like very religious and for some reason after high school and a lot of things started changing and, you know, what I was doing and my, my, my, I was really finding my own path.

I think a lot of fears are like adding up of like, you know, like, after I started feeling a little bit weird, I'd be like, oh man, what if I'm sick? Like, oh, man, what if, you know, what if I was like, like, die and I would, like, fear these things. And I think of honesty was because, um, I don't know, I think it was, I think some of it had to do with the religion part of my life. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, I just brought up super Christian, I guess, like going to church all the time. And I stopped going and I was like 17 or 18 just because I just didn't feel like it was

for me. And then, um, so, you know, I hear people say this actually a fair amount. Super Christian. It's not just Christian. It's like super Christian.

Yeah. Super Christian's like, what's super Christian is like your mom like makes you go to church every Sunday. If you don't go to church, then you're like ground like you're in trouble. and like it's and you know you I can't I can't play games with any blood in it and I can't watch the Simpsons and that's super what's wrong with the Simpsons I don't know it probably has like you know like anti-Semitic or anti-Semitic what's not sematic sematic and just anti-Christian like jokes or something I don't know I've never heard anything religious on The Simpsons but you know I haven't

hey that's that's why it's super Christian is because I mean they can find something yeah nothing so Interesting. And so what was it like growing up in that kind of house? So it sounds like your mom was quite religious? What about your dad? No, my dad really wasn't that religious. My mom's typically very conservative and super Christian. Not as a bad thing. I mean, that's just a mom. And then my dad is just more aggressive, just more like, I don't know if the word liberal. It's not like a political. political word all the time, is it? But he's more like, he's very like maybe L.A., I guess, he's just, you know, progressive, I think, and he's very open-minded. It sounds like he's maybe less rigid and a little bit more flexible. Maybe that's... Definitely. He's not always talked to him whenever there was like anything going on in high school or some serious thing or... Do you have siblings?

One brother. And is your brother religious? No. He's kind of the same as me, I think, around, you know, he always go to church. growing up in high school, I think he just found his own kind of path as well. So me and my brother and my dad are very, kind of very similar. And then my mom is, yeah. So, and your brother's older or younger? Older by eight years.

Oh, wow. That's a little bit older. And what was y'all's relationship like when you were growing up? I mean, he's quite a bit older than you, right? Yeah, it was a... It was pretty, I think standard, like, you know, pick on me, I'm the younger kid, but like as we got older, we, as I got to be like 20, I think and out of high school, we definitely started getting more close. And now we're actually very close. We actually live in like the same apartment complex when I moved back and like we hang out almost every day. But I would say it was very typical. There's, yeah, just sibling eight years older. And, you know, just the normal pick on you younger kids or younger brother kind of stuff. Sure. And so you said that you felt like some of your kind of fear of the future or death. And it's okay to like, how can I say this? It's perfectly fine to say things that sound like they don't make sense or are like super psychoanalytic. And yeah, I'm also probably more hesitant saying it because like I know people are watching. So like I'm trying not to make that effect anything. I'm not looking at chat or anything. But like definitely has like a sure. My brain is trained to think about. What effect does that have? Let's, about that. What effect does that have on you that people are watching?

I don't know. I've always been someone. I try not to really care about people think about me. I've always kind of been that way in my life. But I think over years of streaming, it's just knowing. It's not like I'm trying to appeal to anybody, but it's just maybe you do have a little bit of feeling of what people are thinking, like what they're saying about what you're saying. Like, I don't know. And so it sounds like it occupies, how can I say this? So it sounds like knowing that people are watching, even if you try to not let it affect you, occupies a little bit of space in your mind. And there's really no way of getting around that.

Yeah, I'll say it's pretty hard. I haven't really, I mean, I would assume most streamers have that little occupancy. Yeah. So, you know, this is one of the advantages of being a boomer. that I tend to be oblivious to most things, so it's easy for me to forget. Oh, I'm hoping to get there. You'll get there one day, man.

You just need, you know, it sounds like you're crossing 30 and just give it a couple of years. Once you don't recognize what kids say, like once you don't understand terminology on Twitch or don't understand the games that people are playing, or this is a big one, do you have a younger person who helps you set up your technology? No, I'm, I'm, see, that's not a boomer then.

So to become a real boomer, you have to have someone who helps you set up your technology, which you thought you knew how to set up. Okay. And so that's when you're going to be a real boomer. And that's when you'll become impervious to the opinions of people on the internet, but not really impervious because no one's impervious. Looking forward to it. You'll get some damage resistance. Okay. Good.

So tell me a little bit about like when you were saying, you know, you. felt like some of your fears of death, which I know sounds like so grandiose, but, um, you know, some of your fears were rooted in your religious upbringing. Can you help us understand a little bit about like, like how those two things are tied together? And even if it's not like a, you know, like a one to one. Sure. Uh, yeah. Again, I don't think like the full root of that whole entire he was just like, oh, I'm afraid to die. That's like, yeah, what I was trying to say, but there's just some aspects of like, oh, don't be worried about like going, like just things I couldn't I don't know, just stupid stuff.

Okay, as far as that specific question, because, like, you know, in church, you're taught, like, okay, if you don't believe in the perfect way to believe in, in this scenario, Jesus and blah, blah, like, you go to hell. And so it's like, oh, damn, like, if I, if I was in the die, I'm going to go to hell. Like, you know, that was a little tiny fear at that time. Right now, I mean, that doesn't occupy or it's definitely not an issue right now.

But at that time, that was, I think that was it. And, like, I was, like, you know, looking up on the internet, like, conspiracy theories and like just like end of the world stuff at the time and those it was like so stupid not looking back but that was a huge that's what caused a lot of stuff a lot of my problems I think was like this constant bombarding of worrying about what's going to be in the future and sure yeah so so yeah were you worried about particular aspects of the future sounds like yeah I mean, death in the afterlife is one of them.

But like, were there particular things? Like sometimes people worry about being alone or they worry about, you know, not being respected or able to support themselves or living up to their potential. Honestly, I think I was just fearful of, like,

I think the root of it was the death thing. And I, like after I'd be more and more, like, fearful, I'd always just continue looking up things about like how bad. the world like what's happening to the world right now and oh man like into the like honestly into the world stuff like it was kind of weird like 2012 weird like just stuff that I it's I don't know

I kind of giggle at it now but yeah does it sound kind of embarrassing to say that stuff it definitely embarrassing but I don't know I think a lot of people kind of did that I mean I was an internet person and I was always on there and being you know inputting so much and trying to sift through it and yeah yeah so Jake let me offer if it's okay I want to offer like one or two thoughts about your feeling of embarrassment. Is that cool? Yep. So the first thing is that like everyone feels like their anxiety doesn't make sense.

Everyone like, but it's not, you know, anxiety is not designed to sort of make sense. It's just not how it works. Like our mind is a thinking machine. And sometimes it generates thoughts that don't make sense. And that's actually perfectly okay. Like voicing thoughts that feel irrational to you doesn't make you a stupid person. It's just your mind just comes up with that shit. Yeah.

And when you look up stuff, how did it affect your anxiety? I mean, it would just add to it. Like, I would think about more things, like pile on more shit. Yeah. So then let's think about that for a second. So what, you know, what did you gain? And I want to acknowledge that you did get something, right? So let me maybe put it another way.

How are you satisfied by looking up something on the internet? Because it sounds like it fueled your anxiety. But what did you like, you know, because I'm getting the sense that you were hungry for something, you would do a Google search, and then you would read something, and then you'd feel satisfied even though your anxiety would increase. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it does.

Hmm. Like, I might have been getting a feeling of satisfaction by thinking that I was like obtaining some knowledge that I wish everyone else knew. Like you guys need to know this. Like come on. Like this is happening. Like that's probably because I'd like talk to my friends about it and like I wasn't like, I don't know.

Yeah, maybe that. If I think about it, that'd be my answer. I think that would make sense. And I could. Okay. Even thinking back, I think that's a feeling that I would get. Sure. So,

so you were learning something that other people didn't know. Did you feel like doing research helped you prepare? I mean, I didn't really prepare because nothing happened. But yeah, maybe I don't like maybe. talking about feelings yeah sure right so like there's an unknown there's a problem out there that like maybe the world could end and like what are you going to do about because your anxiety is like what are you going to do about that yeah does that question make sense it's like we got to do something right so like anxiety drives you to do something right so like you have to plan you have to know where the exits are

you have to know where the bathrooms are you have to know when the world is going to end yeah yeah i mean it's almost like a cycle like it's fueling itself i guess yeah is that how it felt to you i mean until i stopped doing that yeah so how did you okay so you said something about a change in mindset so what what changed for you how are you able to stop indulging sure um uh i've always thought that i'm like a pretty like like like strong wrong-willed person. And when I realized, okay, like, Jake, you're doing something wrong. You need to realize what's going on here.

I actually just really thought about the root, like the deepest root of what could cause this. And for me, the deepest route was like, I was like, if you go down the trail, it's like, okay, if the world ended, what's the worst that's going to happen? You're going to die. And then I took that out. I was like, that's the deepest root of what's causing this. So I just literally like thought to myself.

It sounds so stupid and like it's some... Don't judge yourself. Just speak. Okay, sorry, sorry. I do have a lot of... What's that humor call? You just talk shit about yourself? Self-deprecating?

Yeah, it's like... Anyway, so it's good and bad. But anyway, okay, so I just created a mindset, and I pulled myself like this, and I told myself this over and over again at this time was... All right, well, don't worry about all this other shit. And basically create this mindset where... if you were to die tomorrow, you want to be happy for the life that you live today and everything before.

So with that mindset, it's actually like complete, it's not like 180, I woke up the next day after thinking that and was fine, but that completely changed everything. Okay. After I created that mindset for myself, I started like everyday working on myself, like physically. Like not crazy gym, Chad, but like I would, I would like, you know, make conscious decisions to wake a little earlier, go on a little jog, start working out. I would start eating health. here. I would like basically use all of my time that I had to be very productive. And with the mindset that, if I was to die tomorrow, I'd be happy for everything I did. And that's what actually caused me to go to like China and stuff like that. I just thought I would basically try to take risks and make decisions that would make me like proud of the life that I was living. Sounds great, man. That was like actually, yeah, honestly, I was in like bliss. Like after I came out of

that, like maybe I was 20. And I came out of like a long relationship too, but that, The relationship was not a, actually like a big thing in my head at the time. But anyway, after that, like, you know, after a relationship, you go, you start working out. But after that, I was in like bliss. I was in probably the happiest time. Yeah, there's a very just, I don't know, very positive and feel good. Yeah. So let me ask you something.

It's always been like that. What do you think would have happened, Jake, if you never got that anxiety at the age of 19? What do you think you'd be right now? Honestly, I might have just gone normal route and like just went to college, started working in a marketing firm and not really done what I did. Yeah, I mean, yeah. So. Do you ever think about that?

No, yeah, totally. When I, I've always looked back at that and been like, and it's made me realize a lot of things like when there are, you know, you have to have downs and other ups. You have to kind of see a little darkness to appreciate the light and like things like that I always thought. But yeah, I mean... Well, I mean, that sounds like a little bit of an understatement to me, to be honest. It sounds like a generalization.

Like, there have to be downs to be ups. Sounds like a safe and logical thing to say. But what I'm hearing from you is that, you know, your anxiety altered the course of your life. In a drastic way. Yep. Is that... What do you think is up with that? Like, do you think that's...

How do you understand? at or do you not really think about it much? Well, no, maybe I don't think about it now. It's kind of just become normal for me. But I can definitely say that it made me learn a lot about myself at that time because I was someone who was like, oh, I can never get anxiety. That's how I always thought. I was like, what is this?

I'm fine. I'm happy. I'm happy. But I got it. And I didn't know what it was and it was kind of scary. And then it made me realize a lot about. myself and kind of how I wanted to live after, you know, like, yeah. Yeah.

Hmm. And so you went to China. It sounds like you used the word bliss. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's the right word, but I was sure it is. Yeah. Just speak your truth, man.

It doesn't have to be right. Yeah. Okay. And then you went to Japan and when did the anxiety start to creep in? Yes. So, I mean, it started maybe, I would say, let's just say a year and a half ago or more, like around a year and a half ago. Yeah, I would say. I specifically remember like the first day. I, like, I remember actually the first day I felt the feeling of anxiety. And like right away, I was like, holy shit. Because like there's sometimes in life like in. Can you talk about that day? Sure. I do want to say, though, that there are some times in life throughout this blissful time that it was like, I'd catch myself like, oh my God, you're a little nervous, Jake. Breathe. Like, I would catch myself. I'd breathe, I'd relax, and like, that'd be fine. But anyways, about, let's say two years ago or a year and a half ago in Japan,

I had the feeling of like, shit, Jake, yellow anxiety now, calm down. And it didn't really go away like it usually does. It was actually on New Year's Day of 2019, New Year's Day, 2019. Okay. And what was going on that day? Do you remember? I just came back from seeing my family in LA and I did a crazy New Year's Eve stream in Japan. They're like the craziest streams like just out partying all night and just having a really insane stream. And then I was supposed to stream the next day on New Year's Day. And I was like mentally just not feeling like I was like, dude like I just don't want to go outside or now.

I just, it was kind of like first time and ever since being in Japan or being streaming that I felt that way. And I remember talking about it on my Discord a little bit with my, my viewers and stuff. And it was weird because it was like, it's a big day first, you know, but yeah. I mean, that's the first day that I had it. And it slowly would be more and more. And then it's been kind of since that last year and a half been kind of just up and down. I can feel the exact same symptoms I had before, you know, little mental and physical stuff that's being effective. But yeah, that's it. That's about a year and a half ago, I guess. Yeah.

So, and what are you, when you're, what are the, what kind of thoughts do you have? Good breathing, by the way. Oh, thanks. I did a little yoga this morning. Good for you. That's a very, that's a very open-ended question. And I know it's supposed to be like that. So I'm trying to think too much about it before I answer.

At that time or right now? at that time. At that time, I just thought, like, all right, you're just going through a little, like, maybe a couple of days of just feeling a little nervous anxiety. Maybe you have a little bit too much going on. Maybe you just need to relax and chill. Maybe don't, you know, don't drink so much because when I went to Japan socially, you do drink a lot when you meet people. And I was like, the majority of my stream is going out and exploring and meeting people. And, you know, I'm like, okay, just don't drink and chill and you'll be fine.

And I wasn't. I mean, I did stop. And then is your anxiety continued to grow? Do you remember what kind of thoughts you had? Like, let's say, like, end of 2019 or like fall of 2019. What were your, so in the past, it was, you know, your anxiety used to tell you you have to find the exits. Maybe you had some fear of death. Yeah.

What kind of thoughts do you have now? Oh, now my thoughts, and I don't think these thoughts are triggers for the anxiety. I think that they are a cycle of adding to what I have. But now I'm thinking, damn, Jake, you have these same symptoms. Like, I feel very, like, fuzzy thoughts. Like, I'm just, I feel very, like, my mental is not as sharp. And when I first started mentioning this, my stream's like, oh, you're just getting old. Like, it's so normal. And maybe that is part of it. And maybe I'm just overthinking that I'm just becoming a little more slow. But it's like, recognize. it's like recognizable to me. My vision has like become super blurry in the past year and a half. Like like it's insane. I was always like 2020 and then like I don't know. It's just there's like a lot of little physical things. Okay.

Any chance you've seen an optometrist recently? I went two weeks ago. Yeah, out here actually. And it just gave me glasses that are coming soon. But how do you feel about that? I mean, it's a relief. It's a relief to go and like just to rule out that there's any physical. physical problem. It's very nice. But, um, what are you afraid of? To be honest, I'm, I'm,

oh, am I afraid of shoot. Okay, well, my first answer was, I'm afraid that there is something like a little physical problem like with me that I don't know about. Sure. Which is actually really bad because that leads back to my, you know, the time when I would always fear. What's the, you know, fear. Okay. And what would it mean if you have to? a physical problem? That you'd be, I mean, that would be, I don't know, what that mean? Yeah. What does that mean?

I don't understand the question. What's the significance if you did have a physical problem? Let's assume it was true. Then I guess that would just, I mean, it would suck. What would suck about it? That it could, I don't know how to answer that. Okay. That's okay.

do you feel okay not knowing how to answer some questions it's not like there's a right answer it's just you know sometimes i can ask a bad question frequently are you okay with that i don't know i don't know no it's fine yeah ask way i just don't know like how to answer i won't suck about i mean i guess i just don't fall back to what i was already talking about what i got over was like okay what's the first could happen like okay you're sick and you could just die so i mean thinking yeah so so okay let's point out what just happened happened, Jake. Okay, so you're doing good, buddy. Stay with me. Okay. I'm getting spanked right now. Huh? Okay. No, I felt like you being spanked. I knew who's being, who's doing the spanking?

I'm not being spanked. No, not like that. I mean like, well, don't spank, but you know, like I spent like, um, no, I, I understand. I think it's fair for you to feel like you're being spanked, but who's doing the spanking? That makes sense to me. I mean, right now I'm kind of spanking myself because I'm realizing that that this isn't a majority I really don't think this is a majority of what started the cause of this right now but it definitely has become

now a a part of what yeah what my anxiety is right now it definitely has the hypochondria and yeah let me let me understand so I think you were I think you had answers for my questions I just don't think you liked them or weren't comfortable saying them

because you gave us a little clue there so I think what the silence was was actually like conflict within you. Is that fair? Or what are you just drawing a blank? No, I was not, I mean, I had like answers inside me. I just was like thinking, is that you don't want to say them. Yeah. Yeah. So, so thanks for giving us a glimpse because I think that that's enough to get us started. And, and, you know, it's okay to not give us a glimpse, but I'll tell you a little bit more about glimpses in a second. So the first thing is that what I kind of heard from you is like, let me know if this is right. Okay. So you didn't precisely say,

this, but it's kind of like, well, if I do have something wrong with me, then like, maybe I could die. But oh, shit, like, we already dealt with that. That was like back when we were 19. So, like, I don't want it to be that again. Like, I thought that that was taken care of. Yeah. What do you think about that? Is that fair? Yeah, no, that's that's totally fair. And that's why I was kind of like weird answering that way. But I, but I, but these are just, these are thoughts I've had after the, after what I feel like was my, like when I started getting anxiety again, which I really, at the time, I'm just like, I, it was, there was no thoughts of that in my head at that, like when it first, the first day.

And that's, so like the anxiety is definitely kind of not snowballed, maybe into like adding on extra little things now, which is like, shit. Now have to start like pruning more shit off before I can get to that route again. And, uh, yeah. Yeah. So, so here's, here's what I'm hearing from you is that you don't want to say that answer because temporally your anxiety, it's sure it's become maybe a fear of death again, but that happened later after the snowball started forming. So that's not, you're telling yourself that that's not the right answer because you started experiencing anxiety before you started thinking about death. Maybe, yeah.

So you're kind of discounting that, even though that's the answer that pops into your head. Yeah. Yeah. Have you started feeling old recently? No, I think. Okay. Yeah. I don't think that's ever been like a thought.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, no. The chat just says you're a boomer and I just laugh at it. Like, yeah, I am. Ha, ha, I'm going bald. But, like, I don't. What about your mental not being as sharp? How long have you been feeling that way?

Honestly, just like since the exact, since I, started feeling anxiety, which was, this was like the key thing of when I was like 19 or so, I was the same. It was very foggy. Like I remember like, I remember like specifically when I was young, like when I had anxiety, I remember like when I turned my head and I tried to look, I couldn't focus on things like right away. I was like a physical thing that caught that would, that was like one physical thing that I had when I had anxiety. And I noticed that right away a year and a half ago. I was like, holy crap. Like I'm getting anxiety again. Like I realized I was like shit, Jake, you got to figure this out. Okay. Yeah.

That's one thing. I think, yeah. Jake, I'm going to offer a couple of thoughts, okay? The first is that I get the sense that you're trying to give us the right answer. So I don't want the right answer. There isn't a right answer. I just want whatever's in your head, as irrational and as stupid as it is. Because I don't think it's irrational or stupid.

And even if you feel it's irrational or stupid, like I'm even happy with you sharing with me what your struggle to speak is. So even if you can't give me an answer, if you can share with me why you can't give me an answer, that would be awesome. Okay. So what we want is a window into your mind because like basically we're going to look under the hood of the car.

Yeah, please. And so like for example, this whole process of like you kind of saying, I don't know how to answer that. I think you had answers, but something kept you from sharing those answers because you were judging what your answer. answers were. There was judgment there that kept you from speaking. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, I totally. I mean, yeah. I generally overthink way too much. Right. So, so even there. So like, like what was that? Was that bad? No, no, what, what was that? How do we describe that? I overthink way too much. Am I admitting something? Am I realized? Is it a, uh, it's a judgment. Oh. Okay. Right. So this kind of also goes back to self-deprecating. Like, yeah, true. Yeah, I'm very, very self-deprecating and I don't, I hope that hasn't affected me, like made it worse. Yeah, so I think that there's a certain amount of humor to that, which is completely fine, but do you judge yourself frequently? Um, do you mean like just like I just did when I said, I'm, I mean, yeah, yeah, I guess so all the time. Yeah, so I usually do it very lightheartedly. Usually, like, I'll say typically it's very lighthearted.

Sure, I'm, I'm with that because I don't think you, you strike me. So some people like weigh themselves. down with heavy judgment. You're, and you know, these are people who like tell themselves that they're ugly or pieces of shit or things like that. You strike me as someone who's quite confident and has generally speaking like a positive outlook. So I don't think you judge yourself in the same way is like the heavy judgments. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, I'd say that's fair. But I still think that you have a very, a relatively common, subtle judgment going on that because you're a relatively resilient guy, you can use. humor as a defense mechanism and kind of like laugh it off. But you still judge yourself in ways that you can handle, but you're still doing it. Does that make sense? Yes. It doesn't make sense. And you've been doing that your whole life? Or? Actually, probably, I guess, yeah. I mean, I've always been like the class clown that developed

into probably that kind of weird using jokes or something to always have a fallback is that right? Is that weird? Is that like a bad? No, no, no. It's just it makes me want to ask a fall back from what? Like what are you falling back from? Oh, I don't know. Like, I don't know. It's not like a, I'm just, I don't know. I would just say things.

Oh, man. I don't know. What are you feeling right now, Jake? I don't know. I'm feeling I'm trying to think about what I fall back from. I don't know if it's anything specific. Yeah, yeah, I know. What are you feeling right now? Oh. Is you think about what to fall back from.

Like, something happened. Like, you started smiling a lot, but I don't think it was, I think it was like a deflecting smile. That's a very, I smile a lot and a lot is deflecting. And I used to get made fun of for smiling, actually. Sorry, random. That kind of sucked. So what happened if you didn't make a joke? What do you think would have happened?

you were, for lack of a better term, and I realize I'm asking you a really broad question when you were young. Is there some weird-ass random thought that pops into your head? If I ask a broad question, what would happen if you didn't make a joke growing up? What were you afraid of? I don't know. Maybe I just liked people laugh. Like, I just liked, I liked, I liked reactions, definitely. That's maybe that's, I like reactions. And that's definitely, yeah, that's been a good and bad thing in my life, I think. I like reactions. Okay. That's how. Maybe I, yeah, maybe I fish too much for reactions. Do you? Yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah. Yeah.

Why do you fish? What do reactions do for you? Um, they tell me about people. What do they tell you about people? This is weird. Okay, sorry. Um, it's not weird. So I got to watch how I say things now. No, no, no, no, it is. No, Jake, that's a, great thing to say, man, because I was about to say that's what we fucking do here, man. Okay. Shit gets weird. That means we're doing it right.

Like, if I said something like kind of weird or obscure and then I use a joke, like a laugh or a joke as a fallback, after I say the weird and obscure thing, you can see how someone reacts and then like kind of get a feeling of like what they think about that. And if it's a bad feeling they get, then you can fall back on the laugh. And it's like a not, if it's like normal, then you can like, I don't know. Then it's okay. Yeah. So let's think about that.

Was there a particular, that feeling of saying something weird and getting that reaction? Do you remember a time in your life where like you said something and you got that reaction really, really powerfully? And you were like, nope, never going to do that again. I don't know. I was anything like specific. I can think.

Okay. I can think about that I'm even doing it in this call with you. like I'm definitely the way I'm talking to you. I'm like saying something I'm saying that's weird. I'm actually kind of curious. I'm not like, frontwardly curious, but in back when I'm like kind of curious like this.

You think that's weird? Yep. And then I'll like, and that's bad. So can I put words to that? Yes. Yes, please.

Yeah. How you doing, Jake? That's not. Honestly, I'm a little nervous. I have no expectations, but like I've never talked to anybody like that's, you know,

that knows, you know, or at least has some professional background and things. So this is a clinical. cool for me. Okay. So what I'm hearing is a fear of judgment. Right? You're gauging how we're going to judge you. And if we don't judge you in the right way, then you've got to fallback. Right? And then you can alter our judgment by making a joke. Correct. And then so we're going to, we're going to try. Okay. We're going to play a little game. So say something to me. Just anything. Fuck, I got to do this probably. I'm going to try to keep.

straight face. Okay. So this is what I'm going to do. So you're going to say something. I'm going to do my best to be neutral or negative. Okay. And then I want you to notice how you feel and then see yourself want to crack, a joke. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Wow. You're in Patagonia? I think only a bunch of Chads were Patagonia. No, I'm just kidding. Man, it looks good on you.

You feel it? Wait, what did you do? What are you trying to like? What did you? When I didn't say anything, what did you do? Like, how did you feel? Did it work? I'm not, I can't tell.

No, I didn't. I was scared that you thought I was serious and that you, that you're actually upset that I don't like your patagonia jacket, which I like. And then what do you do you do? I just joked about it. I said, nah, it's cool. So, so when you thought I was serious for a second, like, did you get that feeling? I mean, I was also trying to roleplay like you broke it down. but yeah, I did a little bit.

Yeah, right. And if it was a real life scenario, I would definitely have that. Right. So that's so like, and then, and then like what is that feeling? What does it feel like? Feels like pressure of worrying about like, damn, they might not like me because they thought I was, or because what I said sounded stupid or mean or something. Yeah.

Or dumb. Is it okay to not be liked? Yeah, it's fine. I mean, easy to say. but yeah, I mean, it is okay to not be liked. Do you believe that? Maybe. Maybe not.

Wow. That's a good question, Dr. K. I think that I don't worry about if people like me, but I don't like when people, is this really weird to say? No, stop. It's not weird. I don't care if people like me. I'm not trying to be everyone's best friend, maybe, but I do care about if people dislike me.

because I always feel like I don't. I'm not, I, I, I, I feel like, keep going, buddy. I feel, I think there's a way to not, there's a way where you don't need to dislike someone, whether it's just knowing them more or figuring out what a problem was or something. I don't know.

So let me ask you a different question. Is it okay for you to be disliked? Yes. You sure? Yes. Yeah. I don't know. No, maybe I'm just being weird now.

No, I'm not, should I stop saying that? That's a bad hat, by the way. You can even ask my, like, viewers here around me a lot. Like I always say, I'm so, like I say, I'm weird a lot, and that's really bad, probably. Okay, anyways. Even you're judging the weirdness and you're calling it bad. Yeah. It's recursive.

It'll go back until the end of time, which is okay. Just notice it. It's just how you are. it's not good or bad it's just how you are there are good things about it there are bad things about it we can talk about that in a second but let's stick with this

are you are you okay being disliked yeah I think yeah even I don't know what I just said yeah I'll say like just the simple answer is yes yeah definitely okay being dislike yeah okay so I know that this is going to sound weird

but that makes perfect I think both statements are true so I think that like so we tend to think about our mind as like a monolith. It's like one thing. Whereas really what we are is like our mind is actually like, it's like a party of NPCs who each do kind of whatever they want to. And our goal is to sort to get the NPCs to move in the same direction. And we want to like zone into this raid and like do the raid. And sometimes- Do you know I play World of Warcraft or something? Huh? Did you know I play World of Warcraft or something? Sorry, I heard you make these things like,

okay. They're good analogies. I'm ready. I mean, I just use gaming analogies and like most of it tends to be mobas and RPGs because that's what I play. Oh yeah, sorry, keep it going. Yeah. So, like, it's like, you know, you're with this group of people. And like, so I think that it's weird, Jake, because there's a part of you who I think is genuinely confident, mature, and resilient. And then there are also, like, knights at your round table that are concerned about dislike,

are concerned about getting old and are concerned about dying. right in that specter which you judge yourself for you judge yourself for like oh shit i thought we dealt with that it's like it's like zombie it's like you killed it once and it's back again yeah and so you've got to be careful because i think you like you're doing a very subtle thing where you're even though that's the answer that pops up in your mind your reluctance for that answer to be true allows you to ignore it can you say that's last yeah so like like even though something pops up in your mind, your reluctance for it to be true pushes you to just ignore it. You're like, I don't want it to be true.

I don't want to be afraid of death again. Whereas I would be surprised, are you still living every day? And every day, I don't mean most days. I mean, are there days where you live where you're no longer thinking about if I die tomorrow, would I be happy? Are you starting to think about the future? Yeah, I don't live like that every day anymore, definitely. Yep.

And is there a correlation between not living that way in the resurgence of your anxiety? Yeah, I mean, I think so, but yeah, yeah. I also want to like just say that something that I think has been a key that I've just realized in the timing of all this is, I think streaming has changed a lot of how I live. It's actually changed how I live completely.

Tell us about that. Well, when I first went to Japan, I went there to live for a year and come back, right? And I just started to stream. I happened to stream. It was like a, I did it every day, but I wasn't there to stream. I just had the stream following me.

and after you know six or eight months of like damn this stream has blown up and i need to really focus on this it turned into this this is like realization i've thought of that i think is a lot but it turned it turned into me living my life in the stream seeing what my life was to me living the stream and my life was just following and i think that is for me the biggest trigger for this anxiety recently. And I might be wrong, but I really do think I know myself and I know the changes I, like what changes in my life. And this was the craziest change I've ever had. And I'm not, I mean, I'll just voice. I'm always worried about saying that because I'm a little worried about the judgment from the viewers who are like, oh, do you just stream? Like, you just make a bunch of money.

And all you do is go around and get drunk with like, I understand that argument. But I always, I'll just say that. It's definitely something I always, why I don't talk about it. a lot, but it still was definitely a big change in my life. And once I, I realized that more so recently of, you know, it changed from the stream following my life to my life just being the stream, my life kind of just trailing behind me. Yep. And, you know, I've tried to take slow steps and try and balance that back out to kind of live my life again. And that's why I go to LA was one move, although timing kind of sucks with everything going on, you know, being around and trying to start my little healthy habits a little by little again.

but yeah i'll say a lot of my mental spaces most of my mental space in the past couple years is just purely dedicated to stream like everything around being online and everything which it wasn't always like that so yeah so i think that makes a lot of sense jake so can i have a moment to collect my thoughts yeah please are you playing an ad right now no okay sorry i didn't know if that was like an ad thing or something I don't know. I mean, sometimes people run ads, and I just, but I'm not. I'm working with pen and paper, bro, looking at any buttons.

Okay, I'm going to need a minute. All right, either this is going to, either I'm going to lose you guys completely, or this is going to be helpful. Almost there. Boy, it's going to be hard to find the words to say this. Okay. So I'm just going to start talking. I'm okay, I'm sorry.

We're scared right now, but I'm ready. No, no, no. It's, I mean, the reason I'm, you know, I understand you're afraid, but what I'm saying is like it's just like I'm trying to, I feel like I've wrapped my head around something, but I don't know how to explain what I've wrapped my head around. Sounds like me every day. I'm ready. So the first thing that we're going to kind of start in the present, right? So there's, there is Jake and Bake. And then there is Jake.

and these are two different people. And it used to be that Jake was the one who is living life, and Jake and Bake was following along. And now what started to happen is like you started to become more Jake and Bake and less Jake. And over time, you know, so there's like the character and there's you. And I think you described it really well that like you used to just live your life. And that was like Jake was the guy who woke up and said, I want to be able to die tomorrow with no regrets.

That was never Jake and Bake. In fact, the anxiety was the idea of you dying a thousand days in the future and like regretting that thousand days, which is different about, there's a difference between like dying tomorrow and living a life that isn't good enough because you're going to go to hell. It's like a summation of your entire life. It becomes greater than today. Okay. So Jake and Bake, I think, then starts to like, the more you, the more. the stream grows, then you're like, oh, this is a thing, which is like, but remember that Jake grew out of a completely different thought process than like, this is a real thing now.

He didn't care if it was a real thing. He just did today. And once the stream becomes real, then you end up with New Year's night where it's huge and it's great. And the next day, Jake didn't want to go out and stream. And Jake and bake said, you got a stream, bro, because it's a real thing. And so, like, on that day, Jake and Bake took over. Right? And he said, like, hey, man, like, it's not about you anymore. It's about me. And, and so, right? So, and it was hard because when Jake and Bake takes over, like, Jake's not ready for it. And then you kind of stayed home and whatnot. So fine. So now, like, we get into another problem, which is that once Jake and Bake takes over, there's a particular

vulnerability that you have, which is that you've always been someone who is watching the reactions of other people. And so if you have a mind that watches the reactions of other people and can be self-deprecating and can cause them to smile, that is like, that is just lighter fuel for Jake and Bake. Right? Because like you take a guy who's very tuned in to like not wanting to be disliked. And now we see the struggle because like at times Jake and Bake speaks and Jake and bake says, yeah, I really don't want to be disliked.

It's not okay for me to be disliked. It makes me deeply uncomfortable when I look at someone and I can't make this smile. But the funny thing is that Jake is there too. And Jake is like, I embraced discomfort and I challenged myself and I took the road less traveled and I survived and I can be confident who I am. And there really are people that have disliked me in the past and I can be completely fine with that. But Jake and Bake there is also there and he's kind of like looking at the judgments of he's like watching the faces of other people.

Like you see that? Like you're confident you, but then Jake and Bake is in the back and he's like watching the faces of other people. And it's like, oh shit, that guy doesn't like me. Better attack a joke. So that's how you are. And then like Jake and Bake sort of fucking feeds on that because it's fertile soil. And then it starts to get worse, right?

So like the Jake and Bake sort of takes over on January 1st, 2019. And he takes over for just one day. and then on a given day it's like Jake is piloting or Jake and Vake is piloting. And depending on who's piloting, you feel anxiety or you don't feel anxiety. And then what happens is this is just the way that your brain works. You doing okay? Yeah, good. I'm just pretty good.

So then what happens is like your anxiety programming turns on because that's just how our mind works. It's like when you see, you know, when you see a toilet, you have a certain automatic programming that kicks in based on the stimulus. Your mind is like, your brain is like, okay, we're in this situation again. Let's turn on all the switches that apply to this situation. Okay. And once anxiety starts, it's like, oh, shit, we know this. We've done this before. Fear of death, here we go.

Right? And then it arises. And then your fear of death sort of starts to come back and it's like, what the fuck? I dealt with this. And it's like, yeah, you dealt with it. But your brain is like, oh, this applies. That's how it works. So our brain scans our environment, looks into the past and says,

What have we learned about this situation? Let's access it again. And I know it sounds really simple, but like that's the way that you know how to function. Like you can't, you know, when you get a toothbrush, your brain doesn't say like, what is this strange device? You don't treat it as brand new. Your brain recalls what have I done with this thing before? What is everything that I know about a toothbrush? And let's like turn on that circuitry again.

And then you brush your teeth and you don't pay attention. So it's almost like your brain is reactivating your anxiety. Right. And then you've got like, okay, and then like maybe there's some stuff in here. I mean, maybe if you want to say a therapist, you can talk about this kind of shit. But, you know, maybe there's some fear that you are getting older and that like that's sort of giving you like if, you know, if we want to get super, like if you want to talk of it's like the Sigmund Freud, so if he would say that your decrease in vision is giving you a sense of your mortality. And you are facing mortality once again. And the fear of death is returning.

Right. So you could say all that shit. I don't know if it's true or not. Yeah. And then the other thing is that once the anxiety starts, then you start becoming future oriented again, right? Then it comes back to like, what if something's wrong? What if something is a little bit wrong with me? And then I ask you, well, what's the problem with that?

And you say, like, well, like, the problem with that is that if something a little bit is wrong with me, like, let's be honest, Jake, you didn't say it, but we all know it, is that that little something could be bigger down the road. That's the fear, right? Is that it, like, could be cancer. Like, maybe you've got a brain tumor. Like, that's what you're afraid of in the completely irrational way. And if you go search on WebMD, it gets worse. Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. By the way, I do want to like to say that.

Maybe I might have said fear or death. I think the overall thing was I had really been a hypochondria, which led to the fear of death. Yeah. Same thing. Same conclusion. Yeah, that's when you think you have cancer, that's hypochondri. Right. Yeah.

So good. Right? So like, that's what you've been thinking. And then if we think about it, like once you start thinking that, this comes to the crux of it. And this is how I think you've conquered your anxiety. Yep. anxiety is concerned about what point in time like when is anxiety concerned like what is it worried

about the past the present or the future future and when you start living your life in a way that you can die tomorrow when are you concerned what are you concerned with absolutely it's that simple yeah right so when you start living in the today like literally as we talked about earlier that there are some things that satisfy your anxiety and feed it, right? It's just like hunger. Like what happens when I, like if I take a three-year-old and the three-year-old is hungry and I give it food, does the three-year-old feel satisfied? It's not a trick question.

I think yes. Yes. And then what happens to the three-year-old that I feed? What does it become? Full, a poop. Absolutely. And then over time, they grow, right? Because if you feed something, it grows.

And then what happens to the three-year-old's hunger a year later? It eats a little more. Absolutely. Okay. Right? So like then what happens is the more that you start living in the future, if you search WebMD, or if you do other things, like if you let yourself look at the reactions of others and cave to the reactions of others. Then what happens is all you're doing is like feeding that thing, which then grows and grows and grows. And then you did something really, really amazing, which is that like you stopped feeding it.

Right? Because you felt those anxieties. When you woke up every day and you shifted your mindset, you can't convince me that you didn't feel that anxiety. You just turned away from it. You didn't satisfy it. And it probably felt very, very discomforting. Because you turned away from it and you were like, okay, I'm going to start to live in the present. Yeah.

And then you started to feel bliss. And you're like, wow, that sounds super grandiose. No, but that's how it works. Like, that's what yogis have been saying for thousands of years is that focusing on the present and freeing yourself from the attachment of the future. Yeah. And because that's what you're doing, right?

You're saying, like, I could die tomorrow. You are letting go of anything that could happen in the future. It could all be for not. But you're going to do today the way that you want to do today. And that leads to bliss. That's the right word. Actually, it's not a grandiose term. Yeah, that's exactly how I felt.

And then what happens is as you start living in the future, who lives in the future? Jake or Jake in bake? Probably Jake and Bakeman. He has the reins right now. Absolutely, right? And so then like the more that you live in the future, the more it becomes Jake and bake, the more it becomes, is my stream going uphill or is it going downhill? Do people like it or do people not like it?

Then you start to think these thoughts and then the opinions of others and all that shit starts to roll in. and then your brain is like, oh shit, this is anxiety. Like, let's start being afraid of death again. Oh, if we're thinking about the future, let's throw in a little bit of hypochondria because that's what we do when we think about the future. And you move further and further and further away from Jake.

Yep. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's cool. That's very, yeah. They still going? I'm listening. This is very on point right now. Yeah, I think that's like kind of the end of the cycle, right? So I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's cool to see how you kind of mapped it all out.

This is something that the way you mapped it out. I mean, it's really well put into words. I, I've kind of had the feeling of like this exact, exactly what you just said of like I'm just not even like, so I live with my my girlfriend right now and my best friend since I've like nine years old. Like he's like my brother. Like we talk through the year. Like he helped me out when I was struggling at that time in 19. I helped not through some stuff and hit like, we've been very back and forth. I'm like, empowering each other. But even like talking to him, I think the biggest thing I realize is like I've just lost my,

I say I'm lost in the sauce. Like when I joke around with him, like I'm kind of lost in the sauce. Like I'm just, I've just become a little bit away from who I really am because of streaming. So I've been trying to take these, like I said, these little steps to get back.

But I really think, and maybe this is where the problem is like, I can't seem to like 100% commit. really think it's hard to do while maintaining a live stream. I don't want to go to, I don't know how deep we can go into live streaming, but like, it's just, it's such a, um, oh man, I'm thinking now about the judgment of that people when you, when streamers talk about their jobs, it's always like, I know what chat thinks, because I used to be chat, but like many jobs across the board are always demanding all the time.

streaming is one of those that is like 24-7 mental demand and I think that it's hard to find Jake while I stream as I do because it's like if I revert back and I don't know like or maybe it's a good thing maybe if I went fully back to Jake and start a stream maybe my shoot would be cool I don't know like ah yeah anyways I just think it's very hard to pivot and make huge life changes while you are a live streamer because there's just like so so Jake that's the problem just just listen to the statement you're making, okay? That statement is the problem. Your salvation never came through pivoting and making huge life changes. You never tried to pivot. You never said, I'm going to turn around 180 degrees. What did you say to yourself? How did you turn around 180

degrees? I just change your mindset. To what? Yeah. So you're not caring, just not not caring, but to just living for right now. Absolutely, right? You said, I don't care about 180 degrees. And even now you're saying, I don't know how to turn things around. Oh. Right? You see it? You're saying, I don't know how to go back 180 degrees to what I used to be. But that's not how you got to where you used to be.

You started by moving one degree. That's what you should focus on. And even now, you say, oh, if I become Jake again, I don't know if my stream will explode. There it is again. Still Jake and Bake. That's Jake and Bakein' Jake, hijacking Jake. And he says, yeah, Jake, like you be you, buddy. Like, I'm still going to take the reins, but let's, let's pretend that you're going to be in charge.

It's still Jake and bake. I'm still looking at the sign and I'm about to fucking knee it in half. Do you see this thing? Sorry, it's like, there's a sign above my head. Yeah. This is weird. It's hovering. Always.

Hovering. My God. Okay. Anyways, sorry. Continue. Good. No, it's good. It's a very metaphor.

I'm not actually going to break it. It's very memorable. It's cool. Yeah. Right. So that's Jake. Jake is the one who can recognize that that sign is your curse and is something to be appreciated. That your streaming career is awesome and great and that you enjoy it.

And it's a lot of fun. And it's like you're lucky. And it's a burden. It's like having a kid. It's like, yeah, it's enjoyable and fulfilling and awesome. Do you have kids? No. Okay.

Not a true boomer. Not a true boomer. Okay. Pseudo boomer. Yeah, sure. Pseudo boomer is good. And so, like, the thing about kids is like, sure, it's awesome and fulfilling, but it's also fucking exhausting and sucks sometimes. Yep.

Yep. Right? It's like, sometimes I want to, like, sit out. Like, sometimes I want to play video games until 4 in the morning and then, like, sleep until noon. But the thing is, your kid wakes up when they wake up and, like, they don't, you can't hit a snooze button. And they, like, literally what happened today was actually, like, super cute. And I loved her. But she like came and like I wanted to sleep because our alarm went off at five in the morning.

And then and then she like picked up my head. Like I was like sleeping. And then she was like trying to wake me up. And then she like picked up my head and like looked it in the face. And then she kissed me on the face. And then she laid down on my pillow so that I couldn't even lay down on the pillow. And then I put my head. It was really actually really cute.

It's like very endearing. But it was also like I'm still tired today. Yeah. And that's what Jake and Bake lies. is. Jake and Bake and Bake like demands your attention and needs. It's like a hungry, hungry child. And you can appreciate it, but also be like, man, you know, got to like lay off from time to time and you need to break. Yeah. But so let me ask you a question. So like, where do you think you go from here? Like how do we, how do we help you?

Um, how do you help yourself? Yeah. I mean, I've, like I said, I've been, I've been like trying to work towards the little things I know that I really enjoyed doing that. made me feel like I was kind of, I'm a little productive. I felt like I was just purpose. Every day had purpose. Like, you know, so little things. Like I used to work, like, just a little workout or little yoga's every morning. Just like, I've been trying to take a little bit more personal time from stream and like off time. Um, and these like all little baby steps. And I think what's important is I've, I've kind of like recognized. And it's, the way you're putting the words is great, because it's like even easier to kind of see. But I've kind of,

I've kind of recognized these things. And I just, I kind of know how to fix them. It's just, I've been taking baby steps and, like, I'm not seeing results fast enough. And then, like, you know. Ah, not seeing results fast enough. Is that Jake or Jake and bake? That might be, that might actually just be a Jake thing of me just thinking, like, wow, you did this before. You know exactly what it feels like and what it feels like when you have good days.

We're like, there's some days where like, if I don't stream for two days, I'm actually with my friends. We're just, let's say we went on a hike the day before and I didn't go on the computer. I'll wake up and I'll feel like crisp and I'll be like holy shit like I've had a few of those days where I'm just wake up and like dude like and those are those are reassuring days because like you can it's just going to take a little time some effort you can do this like those are my reassuring days but anyway sorry I'm getting side yeah so so so I want to just point that out right so like just just pay attention to this thought look at this thought okay I'm not getting better fast enough and it's going to take some time.

Okay. Those are like contrary to me. I think one is Jake and Bacon, one is Jake. And you say that the days that you're crisp, you say it's going to take, it's going to take some time. And on other days, you say it's not happening fast enough. Those are two different people holding the reins.

I really don't think that that's the same person. I'm not bipolar, right? No, you're not bipolar. This is normal, buddy. This is how everyone is. Okay. So like just let's think about this scientifically for a second. So first of all, I do think that you know a lot of this stuff.

I can't put the piece. You give me the pieces of the puzzle. I just put them together. But you're the one who's giving me this. So you know this on some level. Second thing. Oh, yeah. Second thing is that you're not weird.

Like the reason that I'm able to do this is because you're like other people. Right? Like that's the only way that I could do this. It's not like I'm discovering something brand new for the first time. It's like this is how people work. Like this is how anxiety works. anxiety literally cannot exist in the past and cannot exist in the present it must exist in the future and if your mind is in the present you cannot be experiencing anxiety this is why video games are so

fucking addictive because when you're raging at your teammate in lull you're not thinking about how sorry yeah at least for kids by the way i don't love you know that hey don't get me started bro a lot of people on my stream like league and I'm a don't I'm a big fan of doughed oh hey a man a culture all right sorry let's continue to start boomers of the world unite

yeah imagine playing a kids game I played the actually like for the first time a couple weeks ago it's actually kind of fun I think it's just a different game it's like apples and oranges I think it's like one of these everyone can get kind of hoity tooty about what their own personal preferences are right you can think that your personal preferences

make you greater than another human being. But it's, it's more like apples and pre-sliced packaged apples. That's the difference. So you play Dota? Yeah. Interesting.

What else do you play? I mean, I don't play a lot, but I right now play a lot of Valerant. Sorry, I totally got sidetracked. Sorry, you're really making profound statements. No, no, no, no, that's good. Has Valoran.

I just get triggered by League. Valorin's great. I mean, I like CS for a long time, so it's fun. It's like Counterstack with a little. little cherry on top with all the abilities, but it's good. Cool. Yeah. Anyway, so just thinking, so I think you're not, you're not like that weird or anything, Jake, don't worry about it.

You're like, it's completely like, I think a lot of what your thoughts are are actually quite logical, even though if they don't feel, the only reason they seem illogical is because we don't understand like where they're coming from. Like, even your fear of death returning is like actually kind of makes sense. Like it doesn't make sense from within the mind, but once you understand how the mind works, just your mind is like, oh, we've been here before. Let's turn on our programming. Yeah. And, and you know, yeah, so small doses of living in the present, like any other thoughts

about how you move forward from here? I have a couple of suggestions, but I'm curious what you think. Well, I don't know. I honestly, I really thought and I still think that my move back to L.A. was huge, being around friends and family and kind of like being able to at least have somewhat sometimes like just normal life stuff going on however just like timing right now is just really bad like I you know just unable to go outside and like hard to see it's just it's just out of my control and I don't I just not going to worry about that I'm just letting the time go on and like until things

kind of stabilize but that was one thing I thought was a huge step was kind of being back home sure and little life little lifestyle things that I do I mean it sounds sounds kind of weird, but I recently bought a car. I like driving. I haven't drove in years. I lived abroad. And just driving my car on the highway makes me feel like human again. Sounds kind of weird, but like I love that feeling. And like I didn't do that for years and little things like that, I think are really good actually. Yeah. So I think those are awesome. A couple of other things to just think about. And if that's sufficient, I mean, that may work. All right. I think it really will work.

Just a couple cherries on top, let's call them. So the first thing is I think a lot of people have this idea that doing something the second time should be easier than doing it the first time. In my experience, that's actually not true. Like getting up and working out one day is easier than getting up and working out the next day. Right? So like don't judge yourself for being quote unquote back to square one because I actually think that, you know, because you're kind of saying, like, okay, this is the formula that worked for the first time. Therefore, let me implement it again and it should work for the second time.

I think what you're dealing with is actually different. The resurgence of the problem is a different thing. The third time is easier than the second time. But like, I don't know how to say this. It's just like, you know, overcoming something once is different from overcoming it the second time or re-overcoming it. But third time is also re-overcoming it. I don't know if that makes sense. You mean like the first, if you did it the first time, the second time

might be different and more difficult, but the third time because maybe you've done it, you've done it this way and you've done it this way. Maybe now you understand. Yeah. So doing something the first time, doing something once is separate from doing something again. I think those are actually different skills.

Sure. Okay. And, but the thing is doing something again is its own skill. So therefore third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, eighth, ninth, tenth times are doing something again. So I'll give you just an example. Okay. I got it. So like, actually, I should have started with this.

So I, in my day job, I'm an addiction psychiatrist. Okay. So like, let me put it this way. When someone gets sober for the first time, it's awesome. If they relapse, getting sober again is actually harder. got it okay because they you know they got sober first and then they were like yeah man i did it and then there's this whole other layer of shame and difficulty if they come crashing down got it right because like building something for the first time is different from like cleaning out

the rubble of like failing and then trying to do it again but then the third fourth fifth time that they relapse they actually start to get better at it but that first relapse is a whole different ball game from like the first time you become sober. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. Right. So like getting sober the first time and relapsing. Relapsing is a whole different ballgame than like doing something first. So so I would give yourself a little bit of slack and like cut yourself a break if it does take longer than it's supposed to because it's not the same thing. Right. Like like overcoming something when you were 19 was different from being a streamer and having this artificial pressure of the stream taking advantage of your personality of being very tuned in to what people think

and becoming uncomfortable with their dislike. Like, do you see how, like, that's the way you've always been, but being a streamer just fucking puts that shit on steroids? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So it's not, like, you're not 19 anymore, man. And like, I don't mean that in a good way. I, like, you know, it's like, it's a whole different ballgame that you're in.

You're in the big leagues now. So your anxiety is going to have different things to feed on. And so it's not, it's going to take, it may take longer. The next thing is that I would, I think it would really help you to be present in the tension. So in the past, you used to be present in your progress. But the question is, can you be present? in not progressing. And like, I don't even know if that makes sense.

But like, if you can just even acknowledge that like, okay, today is a day that I can't move one degree. And if you can sit with that and then like, because the thing is when you don't move a single degree, what our mind tends to do is move into the future. And you think about the consequences of failure today. Right. But there's a funny way that you can actually disarm all of this shit is if you can sit with your failure today and, not projected in the future. And it's kind of saying... I feel like what I'm doing with the fact that there's a virus going on and like I'm in LA.

Like I can't control. I'm just kind of letting it. Right. Perfect. I think that's because you're kind of saying like, oh, I'm stuck and I'm not like I came here to do this and it's not happening. Is that what you mean? Yeah, but I'm very real about it. Like I'm just like it's out of my control.

Like I got to let that kind of play out and then I can take those steps. Right. So I have to let that play out. is not like you trying to plan for the exits, right? So if your anxiety was active, if Jake and Bake was active, what you would be doing is looking for the exits and looking for the bathrooms,

planning for eventualities, but what's happening, Jake is like, nothing I can do, bro. Yeah. Just got to let it play out. And then when things calm down, I'll figure out what I'm going to do.

And Jake and bake doesn't like that. I don't say bro, but yeah, yeah, I got it. Yeah, yeah. I say, bro. Yeah. Yeah. My biggest concern is that it's not inclusive to certain portions of our audience,

but I sort of use it an gender neutral way, which may make me misogynistic in it of itself. Oh, yeah. Well, there's the internet, so you're everything at now. Yeah. So, like, you know, I'd say that even if you can sit with the tension of not moving forward and be in the present of not advancing,

that in a weird way can pull the plug out from your anxiety. Does that make sense? Like, you don't have to be progressing to be in the present. The key thing is to be in the present. The key thing is to be in the present. You don't have to be taking those baby steps. Even if you sit with the failure of not being able to take a baby step today, it'll actually still do the same thing.

Got it. Okay. And the last thing is sometimes I teach people how to meditate. So I can teach. Do you meditate? No, when I was 19, that's one of the things I tried. And I actually got to a point where I shared this yesterday on stream. So there's like one song that triggers my favorite song.

my favorite relaxation song and there was a point where I'd like I'll just practice meditation YouTube techniques and I had one thing that was like super spiritual in the meditating he was junior and he kind of like taught me a little bit and there's one point where I could meditate so deep that I had in headphones in with the music and I could tune out the music was gone and like it was really cool actually but no I do not meditate but I thought it should have you think that you do meditate I think I've seen on screens no yeah yes I'm sorry you you do meditate yeah sure yeah so like I I wanted to share that with you because I thought that was super that that was actually really cool.

And that's like, yeah, I don't know. A lot of people don't believe in meditation, but I thought it was really cool that it's real. Yeah. No, I do not. Do you want to learn today? I mean, maybe. Yeah. I mean, I'm open for everything.

I'm an open minded person. I'm ready for anything, I think, except for the few things. So. Okay. I was going to say a joke, but because we're streaming, but like, I don't need do that. I'll say, well, for anything except for butt stuff. Like, that's the joke I was going to say, but like, it's, I don't know if this is the right context. Sorry, it's like streaming is like just in there. It's just Jake and Bake talking. Okay, he's just trying to make a joke and having you

Yeah, so that's what I'm saying is like, let him talk, but just be aware who's talking, right? So like, let him out from time to time. All right. He needs his exercise. No, it's fine. I think Jake's, Jake's been operating long enough. Jake and Baker, All right. Jake and Baker deserves a run on the, on the track. You know, you've got to let them exercise and come out there from time to time. But yeah, yeah, so you said maybe and you said you're up for anything. So I'm not quite sure.

Yes. Okay. All right. So I'll teach you a meditation technique. And, and, you know, what I would tell you is that the goal is, people ask me how often should I meditate? And then I say, you know, three to five minutes to start off with three to five times a week. but in your case, the answer is going to be today. Okay.

Right? So like be careful about setting a schedule for yourself in terms of meditation. If you do yoga, that's really good. So you have, yeah, so the last thing is that you, you know, it may be worth your while to see a therapist or mental health professional if this stuff continues or starts to impair your function. Okay. Right.

So like I'm sure that someone somewhere could diagnose you with an angrivolve. anxiety disorder, because people like diagnosing people with things. But that's not something. I'm not telling you you have this. It's just like you need a more thorough evaluation. They'll ask you a lot of questions that I didn't ask you. Like, for example, you know, does anyone in your family have anxiety and like, you know, how long did it last and all this kind of good stuff?

So, you know, having to find the exits, by the way, is something called agoraphobia. So that sense of like needing to escape. and needing safety and being assured of like safety is like oftentimes or is is one manifestation of something called agoraphobia, which sometimes also people call is like fear of going outside. So they stay at home because they're afraid of like what could happen if they leave the house. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so, you know, I'd say that if it really starts to affect you, I'd really strongly consider seeing a mental health professional and see if you actually, you know, do fit criteria for an anxiety disorder. And there are treatments for that. Treatments for anxiety disorders

include like psychotherapy, like talk therapy, exposure therapy, which is when you kind of like expose yourself to whatever, you know, induces the anxiety and medication. Yeah. Yeah, so let's meditate. Let me just think. Do I want to see anything else? Any questions for me? Uh, no. Okay. Not really. I mean, um, yeah. So something else for you to just chew on. So, you know, sometimes I talk about karma, karma. And, and, um, you know, you don't have to believe this. It's just, I find it fascinating that like, you know, I think that your initial bout of anxiety was part of your, the way I see that. I'm not saying it's true. It's just the way that I conceptualize people. I think I look through them through the lens of karma. And the really interesting thing is that without your

fear of death, I don't think you would have become the person that you are today. So I see a strong karmic influence there. That essentially like, you know, that was a pretty big event that altered the course of your life. And if you feel so inclined to indulge in this kind of irrational thinking, then I would encourage you to think a little bit about your current challenge and whether that's also life signaling you to like take take stock of where you are right now and don't just act on auto because that's essentially what your fear of death did for you back then is it like kind of woke you up and helped you recalibrate and put you on a path that it sounds like has been very enriching for you as well as like people who watched you yeah so just something to toss out

and think about if you if you want to I appreciate yeah okay So any thoughts about that? I mean, I think I've thought something similar just like is everything I'm doing right now. The word isn't right, but it's like, is there something that is like, I don't know, like deeper that is just not correct right now? Yeah, I've thought about that. Yeah. Yeah. So I encourage you to continue thinking about it.

You know, I don't know. So being sort of a scientist by background, like, it's kind of interesting because I don't know if that's true. But if you look at things from a data perspective, just because it's true doesn't mean that it doesn't have utility. Right. So like there's good evidence that rethinking your life through like a broader perspective has utility and positive outcomes, even if it's not true. Anyway, so I'm glad you're thinking about it and I encourage you to continue thinking about it maybe meditating on it exploring it talking with your friends and your brother and girlfriend and stuff like that going for long drives and mulling it over. It's a good one. Yeah.

Going for hikes, things like that. Yeah. Love it. Okay, so let's meditate. So sit up straight. And I'm going to teach you practice that we do relatively often on stream, but I'll just, you know, do it. again, because we haven't taught it in a little while. And it's actually a really, really good practice for anxiety. And part of the reason it's a good practice for anxiety is because when

your mind becomes anxious, you actually activate like your adrenaline system and you're like danger, neurocircuitary. So you start to feel like you're in danger and your heart starts beating fast. You start getting sweaty. Your stomach feels a lot to me. Yep. So this, this technique in some, so it's a weird amount of scientific support. So it has some very basic scientific support and has clinical support, but the middle part we don't really know to be true, which is weird. But basically what this technique does is shuts off your sympathetic nervous system and reactivates your parasympathetic nervous system.

So it shuts off your adrenaline and kind of like calms you down and like activates your vagus nerve. Vegas nerve is what slows down your heart. Adrenalism pumps up your heart. There's a vagus nerve here. If you hit it, you knock you out. Got it in like, there my, okay, sorry. Vegas nerve actually runs kind of along your throat.

But, yeah, so, okay, anyways, okay. People get, yeah, I mean, it's, it is over there, but it's like deeper. It's not like near the surface of your neck. Okay. Well, I am feeling a little nervous here now, so I'm really curious. Great. So is your nose clogged? Just one nostril, but it's fine.

I can breathe with my nose. Okay. So, so, blow it? Let me see. Yeah. Okay. So one of your nostrils is going to be more closed than the other. Do you have a deviated septum?

You don't know. I've never been to the doctor for that. I know what that is. Never been to the doctor for it. Okay. Is the same nostril always closed for you? No, but I should keep an eye on that. Okay.

All right. Wait. Yeah, it's my left one. Okay. Okay. So someone remember that. Okay. So if you're curious about that,

we can have another conversation about sweat as the rhythm of your nostrils opening and closing. But can you do this? Just fold down. Yep, great. So I want you to take your thumb and block your right nostril. Readable one? Yep. And then breathe in through your left.

And then block this switch and breathe out. Breathe in through the right nostril again. And when you have a full breath of air, switch and breathe out. breathe in through the same switch and breathe out in switch out I'll keep talking but go ahead and close your eyes breathe in switch out in switch out in switch out it's okay to yawn it's okay to yawn if you need to in switch out and now continue at your own pace remember to switch on a full breath good so that in switch on a full breath we'll practice for about

60 to 90 seconds go ahead and finish the round that you're on let your eyes remain closed let your hands relax when you're done with the round and just sit and enjoy yeah woke me up I was sleeping. Hi. Do you want to meditate? What do you want to do? I know. I was telling the story about you earlier.

It's okay. I'll bring her in a minute. Okay, come here. Okay. Am I still meditating? Huh? Am I still meditating? I don't know.

Are you? You tell me. What was that like for you? It was okay. I could feel my heart. And I was, and actually when I felt my heart, I was going to stop and say, am I supposed to hear my heart beating? But then I turned that potential negative thought into a positive thought.

And instead, I embraced my heartbeat. And I wanted to feel the rhythm and think about what it's beating and where all the blood's going. That's what I did actually in my head right now. Cool. Sounds great, man. I hope so. Was it, was it a pleasant experience? Yeah, it was, I mean, it's not like I've,

flu or something, but it was, for me, the biggest thing about meditating was always that you have a sense of control over your body that you usually don't have and that, yeah, maybe that. And like, you can kind of feel yourself. And I don't really do that really, but yeah, it was definitely, it was positive. So as you were paying attention to your heart, were you thinking thoughts or were you just feeling things? there was a lot of

but then I started to just try at the very end they tried to just focus on the beat and I try to just envision it kind of spreading the right so as as you had whatever you envisioned is great yeah yeah as you envision it and you focus on it what happens to your thoughts

they weren't there anymore yeah it wasn't yeah it was yeah they weren't there great So. Yeah, so I think that's the point, right, is to free yourself from the thoughts. Be quiet so that daddy can teach. No, you want attention?

This is what we call attention-seeking behavior. Any, any, so Jake, you know, I, hey, shh. Hey, quiet. Thank you. I know, you're silly. she wants to be a streamer I guess she's performing for someone okay

so Jake one any questions for me before we wrap up because I think I'm going to have to go because she's hey you want to get out of here or you want to stay I don't I don't know if I have any questions right now I mean I was it was kind of it's nice to

hear you know how you kind of portray things and it's things that I kind of knew, but maybe I just kind of was looking at them through like, it was a little fuzzy still looking at my picture what I think is going on. Yeah. I think you help paint the picture a little bit better. For me, I think I'm always someone that, like I said before, is very strong-willed.

And it's not going to be the same, but I really think that the knowledge and understanding of what's causing things is the first, is like for me, like a huge step. And then after that is really just not worrying about it, taking short. or long time, like it did the first time in comparing it, but just kind of just, you know, using that knowledge to, I don't know, flow out of things as it's supposed to happen day by day instead of worrying about, you know, when. Beautifully put, man. But I think, you know, I agree with you that like understanding what's going on is the first

step. And one of the things that I say on stream pretty often is good diagnosis precedes good treatment. And until you know what's going on, you can't really fix anything. Sure. All right. So thank you very much, man. It was great having you. And good luck with everything.

Thank you. I got to ask you. Someone said that you speak Chinese. I want to hear it. I'll say a little German. But is it? Not me and she. No, no, no,

no, no. Koshu? What do you want to say? Like, I'm just, I'm thinking of the word. Well, I'm,

I'm wronged Chinese I won't Chinese I can nice I'm at Dajou

Dachau Dachau Dachau Dachos Texas I could be saying Oh cool Okay nice

Yeah Nice that's so cool actually I just think that's so cool That was back in 2005 so it's been 15 years I

now can I don't know how to say order food Like I know how to say DEN Thai D'n Thai D'n Thai

Fun Okay D'n Thai Oh, sure Did you ever travel to China? Sorry, random questions No, I've never been to China I've been to Japan like three or four times

But never to China Okay, cool. And yeah, I just had to ask that Yeah, cool, man All right Well, yeah, thank you for so much for having me And talking, It was nice talking to someone who I think knows

what they're talking about And, yeah, I don't, is this, is this the end? Sure. Oh, okay. Well, maybe we'll play Dota sometime. I'm going to message you my Steam ID. Yeah, absolutely. And then maybe you can help me with my Mandarin.

And I also speak a little bit of Japanese, so I'm rusty on that too. Yeah, I'm going to get you on a Dota game with Admiral Bulldog. You know who that is? Yes, I do know who Admiral Bulldog is. Yeah, we're going to get you on a Bulldog game. We'll do that. for sure. All right.

Sounds good. Take care. Thank you. Bye. Okay. Bye.