HealthyGamerGG - Talking with Kaceytron

Episode Date: July 4, 2020

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Oh, no problem. Thank you so much for having me on this show. I just feel, I don't know, I'm really excited to come on. I'm really nervous, but I'm excited for what I could take away from it. And what could you take away from it? I guess what I really wanted to come on for is, sorry, I'm like such a crier. I really am, and some of this stuff is kind of hard for me to talk about. But I feel like

I would say 2012 to 2016-17 were really horrible points in my life. There was just like kind of like the series of events that happened and it was really difficult. That's a long-ass time. Yeah.

It was I don't know, it was really difficult and I feel like I've came to a point where I feel like the dust has kind of settled, I guess, and I'm ready to kind of process, which is scary for me, but I don't know. Okay. I know this sounds, I know I ask people to sometimes, like, can I think for a second, but can I just, can I pull that card out now? Can I play that card? Because you just actually just shared a lot. And I need a moment to think about, because I'm hearing a lot of different

stuff from you. So let me think out loud. So the first thing is that I'm hearing you facing. something by coming on here today. Yeah. I'm hearing that it's hard for you in some ways. I'm hearing that also like I just have to just take a step back and think about, you said 2012 to 2016 or 17 was a hard period. That's years. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess I could go into detail. Okay. You know, I'm ready to go into detail kind of. Okay. Go for it. Oh, God. I mean, it is like a lot of years.

It's a long story. But I feel like it all kind of started out. And this is like particularly, sorry, I'm such a crier. So why do you apologize for being a crier? Let's talk about that. I don't know. I feel like I'm kind of, I'm like, I can't believe I'm already getting emotional. I was going to try to hold it together.

So can we talk about that for a moment? Yeah. Okay. I understand that you want to tell a story. but let's stop and just look at, so you're having an emotional reaction, and I'd like to understand what about holding it together is important. Why can't you come on and be a shit show from second 29? I guess I'm just like afraid that it'll like kind of spiral.

Like I feel like a lot of it has been kind of stuff that I've been suppressing for a long time because I'm afraid of like the outcome, I guess. What's the outcome that you're afraid of? I don't know. I feel like kind of like processing it is just going to put me out for a while, you know, like mentally. Yeah, that's going to happen. And I guess the idea of like, you know, like being put out and maybe not being able to do my job, you know, my job, since I'm a streamer as well as I could, is scary to me. Sure.

So it gets Casey Tron. Yeah. Okay. So Casey Tron, I think that all of those are really valid concerns. And I do think that, you know, at the end of an emotional conversation or dealing with your emotions, you're going to be exhausted. And it may impact your ability to stream. And that's normal. And in my overwhelming experience, generally speaking, like a week or two from now, you're

your people tend to be in a better place, although sometimes they aren't. And if they aren't, you know, if this, if your conversation today has ripple effects that you're having difficulty dealing with, please let us know. And we'll try to either support you ourselves or like connect you with the appropriate support so that you can kind of get through that. Because I don't want to like, you know, I don't want to like, you know, if you open a can of worms, then you have to deal with that shit. I don't want to leave you hanging. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I, you know, I think I think it could spiral and I'm here. Yeah. So we'll try to help you with that spiral. Also, so is Twitch chat. And right. They can actually surprise you from time to time if you mean on them.

Oh, and you know, they really do. And I guess like that's one of the other things that I wanted to say is like, you know, like you said, it was like such a kind of long period of time. And really during this time, like the only positive thing I have. had was Twitch. You know, that was kind of my escape, I guess. So I don't know. I always just like think of Twitch very fondly. Yeah, me too. So you want to, you on dive in? Yeah. So I feel like it all kind of starts out and it doesn't really start out in 2012. But so I don't know, I guess to summarize. I was with my boyfriend for a long time. I was really close with his family. Like I had even moved in with them. And his younger brother was diagnosed with a really bad form of childhood cancer and he passed away in 2012. It was, this is probably like one of the harder things for me to talk about, but it was really hard. Sometimes the visuals from it is,

I don't know, just still really bothersome to me. Sounds like they really burned an image in your mind. Yeah. It was just, you know, like I've had family members pass away from cancer. You know, we all have, but just something about it being a child was just, especially like a child that I was really close to. I was one of his main caregivers. You know, we were very involved.

he was very sick, you know, they needed as much help as possible. I was actually holding his hand whenever he passed away. And just like the way that he, the way that cancer had just eaten him alive, it was really, really hard. Yeah. So that's, I feel like kind of where the turmoil starts. And during this time, my mom had relapsed on meth.

And it was like after this had happened, I never really was able to process it. Because my mom, along with my stepdad, who was extremely, extremely abusive to her, had both relapsed on meth. And this went on for, it was like a very abusive relationship for three or four years. Like, I thought he was going to kill him. my mom and he didn't. But yeah, I guess that's like kind of really summarizing it. Shit.

That's a lot. Any one of those is, so Casey Tron, how do you, what do you think about all that stuff? I mean, that's a lot. It's really weird looking back on it now because I remember then feeling like so I don't know

like so grown up like such an adult and whenever I like think back at it now you know whenever I'm almost 30 like I think like I was in my early 20s you know whenever this had started happening and I don't know like I guess whenever I look back at it now

I just think like how was I able to deal with it. Like, I feel like I couldn't do it again. Yeah. No, I think that that makes sense. How do you feel like you were able to deal with it? Um,

I feel like I just wasn't really able to feel for, I don't know, like several years, I guess. Yeah. Um, like, I feel like that was like really the only way I could go on. I don't know. Like, I guess I really summarize the, the abuse that my mom dealt with, but it was just, God, it was just so relentless. Like, I don't know, like, I hate calling him my stepdad. I don't want to call him by name, obviously. Like, I don't want to say his name or anything to, um. Is there any,

is there any danger to you or your mom or anyone else? If you talk to you. talk about this more in a public setting? No. Because we would need to think about that and make sure that. No, there isn't. He's been out of our lives for completely, I would say, about three years now. But I guess another thing that's kind of hard about it is he was in my life, like ever since I was five years old, you know?

and he had never really been that abusive to my mom. He had hit her, you know, like I think maybe a few times. Can I just stop you there? Yeah. I want you to listen to this sentence. He had never really been that abusive to my mom. Right. You know, which like that's something that I've came to realize more and more

since I've been kind of processing it as, you know, abuse is abuse no matter what. And it's just like, I remember then it just didn't really click, you know? It just even to like, I guess, like other family members, you know, it was like everybody was upset about it, like the times that it had happened and it was awful. But it just, you know, it got brushed off, I think, as like a lot of those situations do, right? And then with the relapse, it was just like it got so bad. Like there was probably, like I said, like a four-year period where I did not see my mom without some sort of like bruise or concussion or stitches or something, like something like for four years. and because she was using at the time,

it was really hard to get her to leave, which I don't really, you know, hold any resentment. Why not? I guess I hold more resentment towards him, you know, because at any point he could have left. Why didn't he? Like, why didn't he at any point, you know, just leave and stop terrorizing my family

because that's what it felt like, just like three, four, five years of just, like, utter terror. There was, it was just like, it went on so much. Like, I can't even, like, begin to describe. It was, like, a daily thing. Like, my mom would call me. And a lot of the time, I would be streaming, and she would just hang up. And I'd be like, oh, fuck, and just turn off my stream and drive over there. It would just be like this all the time.

After my grandma passed away, it got even worse. I remember literally the day of my grandma's funeral. He broke into the house, and he attacked my mom in the shower and just beat the shit out of her. And she had like a huge knot on the side of her head at the funeral. And it was like everybody knew. I don't know. There was a time I have a younger brother

who was he wasn't physically abused by him. He was only physically abusive to my mom because it was the person that he could get away with it, right? But he would be very mentally abusive to my younger brother.

My younger brother has autism. And it's actually his biological son. he would say things like he was retarded and he wish he wouldn't have been born and that he wasn't his and my brother still struggles with that a lot um I don't know like I guess just in a lot of ways it's just like I it's like my family still struggles with it every day um my mom lives with me too and my mom is the struggle what is the struggle that you guys deal with my mom has pretty severe paranoia. And it's, in a lot of ways, I think it's just because she was used to being beaten

every day for so long. It's just like she's constantly in this like kind of fight or flight. And I feel like in a lot of ways, I kind of am too. I was wondering that we'd get to you. Right. I don't know if you've noticed, but you're talking about everyone else. see that? I guess, yeah, and I guess throughout all of this, it was like I was, I was the person, you know, like I was the person who had to be there for my family. Like, I'm the oldest. Um, I had to take on a lot. What did you take on? Um, you know, my mother and my younger brothers started living with me.

it was kind of back and forth with my mom. Like I said, she was, you know, under the influence. And it was difficult because, you know, she wouldn't stay clean. So, like, during all of this going on, it was really hard not to be angry with her because of her constant use. And I guess the other thing that made it really difficult is whenever my grandma passed away, she got, you know, like a pretty decent inheritance. So she got, she got like $100,000. So it was just like she had limitless income.

So it was very exhausting. It was very exhausting. What was it? It was just like you couldn't keep up. It was like here my mom was with this really extremely abusive person. And she had just like inherited. at all this money. She was a user and it was just like great. Here's like, you know, a two, three year amount of time where it's like she's never going to run out of money just to continuously

abuse, right? I don't know. Sounds like you couldn't stop it. Yeah, it was, you know, completely out of my control. All I could really do was just like stand by and watch, you know, because, this time, I was successful in doing well on Twitch. Like, I earned enough to be able to take care of my younger brother. And, you know, my mom was able to stay at my house sometimes, but it would get really frustrating because, you know, she would, like, show him where I lived. Like, there would always be, like, this point where, you know, she'd, like, try to sneak him around and she would keep seeing him, which, like, I don't blame her for. I don't blame her for. I don't really hold any resentment towards her for it.

Not even a tiny bit? Maybe a tiny bit, I guess. I try not to. Ah, that I can get behind. Try not to. I can make sense to me. But it boggles my mind that, I mean,

it sounds like you were carrying the world on your back. And it sounds like, I mean, I can just, I'm just putting myself in my shoes. I would feel probably incredibly frustrated that she didn't help more. And I can imagine, I'm going to keep talking for a second, okay?

And I can imagine that I would want to try to forgive her, and I would forgive her, and I could still harbor resentment, and I would try to keep that resentment at bay, and I would try to decide that I'm going to be a good person, and it's not her fault. And at the same time, I would still, in the deepest, dark, parts of my soul, I would have anger and resentment. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I would say that that's pretty true. Like, there's a part of me that, like, really resents, you know, that, you know, I guess during my come up on Twitch, because during this time that all of this was happening,

I was, you know, like, kind of having my breakout moment, I guess, and I couldn't really focus on it. There were times where I remember, like, I would have, you know, you were robbed of joy. Yeah. Yeah, that's... Yeah. Like, now that I think about it, Casey Tron, what I'm hearing more and more from you

is that you got robbed of so many things. Yeah. It's really, like you said, it's really hard for me to talk about it, like in reference to myself. I think a lot of it just has to do with me. Maybe being the oldest, And then, like I said, just feeling like I've had to be kind of the protector for my family.

So, I don't know. What's it like to be the protector? Exhausting. And I think for a second, Casey Trott? Yeah. How are you holding up? I'm starting to kind of calm down a little, I guess. I'm just like really kind of, I guess, I guess, like, a part of, you know, I guess, like, a part

me is kind of embarrassed because I just sounds so white trash, you know. And I guess like I'm kind of worried, you know, what people think. Sure. Whose fault is it that you sound the way that you do? In what way? Like, whose fault is it that I sound? Yeah, you say you sound like your white trash. And I'm saying, like, who's responsible for those circumstances? or the story that you're telling. I don't know. I guess my parents. Yeah. I think it's important to remember that. Right? Because like I know in time, anyway, I'll get to that in a second.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important to remember that I'm not going to try to argue with you that you sound like white trash. but what I would encourage you to remember is there is an infinite amount of distance between sounding like white trash and being white trash because I'm not hearing any iota of you being white trash in fact I'm hearing quite the opposite

I'm hearing a story of courage and dependability of resilience and pain and odds sacked heavily, heavily against you. Yeah, thank you. And ultimately, I'm hearing the story of triumph with a terrible, terrible cost. What do you think about that?

I think that I don't, I don't know, I guess I don't give myself enough credit. I can be very critical of myself. Yep, we're not really seeing a whole lot of it yet, but I imagine it's down there. Oh, God, it's sorry. Like I said, I'm like such a crier, and this is just like not easy. I can imagine. To talk about. Do you want to talk about this?

I do. Okay. I do want to talk about it. I don't know. Like, I feel like one of the things that, I feel like one of the things that really helps me is just like, not that I would want anybody to have the same sort of issues, but, you know, finding, you know, that people can relate to it.

And I feel like if somebody can kind of, you know, relate to my story in some way and not feel so alone. You know, that's what it's all about, right? Like, do you feel alone? Sometimes, yeah. What about? I guess I've just, like, always felt not normal. And I don't know.

I wouldn't say, like, I don't feel like I've had some super unfortunate life or anything like that. Why the fuck not, by the way? I have like this really, I think... That's absurd in Casey Tron. I have like this really... I have this thing that I do, and I think a lot of it has to do with Ricky that was who passed away.

He was only seven. I think a lot of it kind of has to do with that. Like, I feel like in a lot of ways that warped my reality a lot. And in a lot of ways, like, I just feel like this need to feel grateful no matter what. And I feel like sometimes I kind of use it as a cop-out. And I'm kind of, you know, coming to that realization, like, fairly recently. Like you said, I think it's good to feel grateful. But I feel like a lot of the time I use it as, like, a way of not allowing myself to feel.

Yep. Why do you feel like you have to be? Okay. Can I jump in? Can I? Yeah. I've been trying my best to listen. Yeah. But I have a lot of thoughts.

Okay. So is it okay if I ask a couple of questions? Yeah. Okay. You got to let me know if me asking questions makes things easier for you or harder for you. So I'm going to check in with you about that in like five to ten minutes, okay? Okay. So when you say you've with Ricky, when he passed.

away, you somehow came away with the conclusion that you have to be grateful no matter what. What's up with that? I guess I guess I just feel grateful for my health and my family's health every day. I guess I have a lot of like selfish feelings sometimes in reference to that. Like guilt. one of the which is kind of funny but one of the things that I have

issues with a lot is just because he was very into video games one of the things that I have issues with a lot is playing video games sometimes which is weird since I'm a Twitch streamer right what kind of issues do you have

um like any time a game comes out that I know he would have liked it's just like difficult I don't want to play it um sure what makes it

because it just feels like he is like missing out on something that he shouldn't have and I know I've asked you a couple of times if you're if I should call you Casey Tron I have trouble it's just it's having I'm having trouble getting that to roll out of my time I'm in Casey. That's fine. Thank you very much.

So Casey, I'm going to just ask you a question. So I'm going to ask you, are you in a place where you think you can reflect on a statement that I make? Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to give you a scenario. Let's say that we have a 23-year-old girl who has essentially a brother who is dying of cancer and dies of cancer at the age of seven. And then she says that based on the... this experience, I feel grateful and selfish. Does that add up to you? No. What do you imagine that

person should feel? Like what would you predict that person to feel if they lose a seven-year-old basically what sounds like brother, and watch them wither away to cancer? Um, sad. Yep. What else? I don't know. I guess maybe a little bit. I don't know how I'll say like fucked up from it. Absolutely. And you know what the fucked up looks like? It looks like you saying that you're grateful and selfish. That's the fucked up. People dying of cancer does not make other people grateful.

and what I see within you is a war between the ocean of negativity and the bastion of positivity. Yeah. Right. And I think what we're dealing with here is like, and sorry, I'm going to jump around. Okay. So if I don't make sense, please let me know. So what I'm hearing from you overall is like loans and debts. Like you're like, how was I able to do this and you're spiraling out of control now?

like basically I think you took an emotional loan and now you're paying back that debt because that's what we do because for a long time years it sounds like you had to be strong but that strength doesn't come from nowhere that's like you're you're taking out a loan against future earnings there's a there's an emotional price to be paid yeah and now the devil wants us do and oddly enough that's a good thing because that's what healing looks like. Because there's a lot of hurt that you have built up and kept. And there are weird ways that your mind has struggled to survive. I don't blame you for that.

But like, look, I mean, come on. Yeah. You watch a 7-year-old die of cancer and that you're saying, I'm great. Like, what? Like, I get where that comes from. I think it's amazing that you could do that. I think it's the only way you can survive that. Right.

because if you let the damn loose and the negativity comes you could not afford to spiral then like how the fuck are you supposed to spiral when you have a brother with autism you know this kid dying of cancer in your house and your mom is using meth like there's no like you can't afford to pay

that emotional price then and so you're paying it now yeah and I guess I've come to that realization in a lot of How so? Do you help us understand that a little bit? I don't know. Like lately I've been, because like I said, like I feel like I use like this. Like I'll constantly always like refer to like, you know, there's people who have it worse. And, you know, if anything, I should just feel grateful that I'm here and I'm in good health and, you know, everything's okay. I feel like sometimes I just don't want to ask for much more than that, I guess, in a way.

Yeah. What make, how do you feel like? Yeah. How does it feel to ask for more? Like I'm being selfish. I don't know. I don't know. I guess like I just feel like things,

like there's just like a point in my life where it just felt like things were so bad. Like where I'm at now where things are, you know, like not that bad, a lot better. I just feel like I don't want to ask for much more than that, you know? So I think there's something subtle and potentially dangerous here. The first is that I think it's important to have gratitude and I think I hear from you genuine gratitude. Yeah.

Right? So it's important to acknowledge where you come from. Like I have a lot of gratitude around where my parents came from and what I have. I have it really, really good and my parents didn't. Yeah. And so I think it's important to express gratitude and acknowledge that. And it sounds like you really do have a lot of things to be grateful for. How are you doing, by the way? I'm doing okay. I'm starting to, you know, it's like, like I said, I'm just like very anxious. You know, it's embarrassing. What's embarrassing about it? I don't know. Like, I guess I'm just like, I know it's like, like I know I shouldn't be, but it's hard not to worry what people will think of me or how they'll

think of me differently. Why shouldn't you worry what people think about you? Of course you should worry. Yeah. Casey, you make one mistake, which is that you just invalidate the way that you feel. That's, yeah. Right? So, like, of course you're going to be worried.

Like, who the fuck, when you come onto the internet and you talk about how you grew up in your work, so I don't, I'm sort of saying this to make a point. a white trash household. Like, how do people think about people who grow up in white trash households? Now, I think the really cool thing about your story is that it is overwhelmingly clear to me that you are not white trash, even though I'll acknowledge 100% that it may look white trash. Yeah. And it's okay for you to be afraid of being judged.

Yeah. And this is the basic issue that I see is that, like, you don't let yourself feel bad things. You're not allowed to be afraid of being judged for white trash. I shouldn't feel that way. Yeah. I shouldn't feel sad. I shouldn't feel angry. Yeah.

Like, breaking out on Twitch is supposed to be fucking awesome. Yeah. And Casey, I don't know how to say this, but, like, you got robbed. Yeah. I don't know. Like I was talking about resentment earlier and how I don't hold any resentment. And I do, you know, I do to a certain degree. I try not to. I think there was a time where I felt a lot more resentment. Like I feel like I've gotten a little bit better about it in the past year or two. but there was definitely a time where I was really frustrated with my mom because it did feel like I was robbed.

Okay. Casey, you got to let me know if I'm going to be an asshole, okay? Yeah. Because I'm going to say something to you. I think it could be hurtful to you, but at the same time, I feel like it's important to say, not so much for you, but for everyone else out there. Is that okay? Yeah. Okay. So do you blame your mom?

Um, it's hard to. I don't know. It's just... I completely agree. It's hard to. Okay. Because especially just seeing how she is now, it's hard to. Okay. I don't know. Okay. So let me ask you another question. Okay. We're going to think a little bit like analytically. And hopefully that'll help from an emotional perspective. Yeah.

So can I forgive someone who didn't do anything wrong to me? I guess you can forgive anyone for any reason. But if they didn't do anything wrong, like, can I forgive someone for throwing me an awesome birthday party? No. Why not? Because they didn't do anything wrong. Yeah. Right?

So it's kind of interesting because I see this a lot where like the people that we love, we try not to blame them. which is wonderful. And at the same time, there's a very subtle problem here, which is like, it gets you stuck. Yeah. Right?

You can love her. You can appreciate what she did for you. You can acknowledge that there's a disease here, and it was like a roll with the dice, and it may not be fair to blame her. But I think you should absolutely blame her anyway. Yeah. What I would really love,

I think the direction you need to go is to not be, one-sided to acknowledge that like at the end of the day like it sounds like you were the mom and she was the kid that's not fair to you and I think that as much as addiction is a disease and like in my day job I'm an addiction psychiatrist so I get this but I think not holding people who have addiction problems accountable for their actions doesn't actually help and and the concern that I have for you is that like I don't think you can forgive her if you don't admit that she did something wrong. Now, that's kind of interesting because maybe she didn't do something wrong or maybe you've already forgiven or maybe

you don't need to forgive her. But generally speaking, when I hear a story like this, I think about something called Dharma, which means duty or responsibility. And I think that like the way for this is my value system, you don't have to agree with this. It's just something that I'd like you to think about is that like when you have a relationship where some like you can love someone but actually the way to move forward is to like look at it like it is and say hey this really sucks for me it really wasn't fair and I forgive you for it because that's what healing looks like it's not saying nothing bad happened to you because that's how you end up with gratitude for watching a seven-year-old diet of cancer like sure there's gratitude there's an appreciation for life I get all those things

I've watched seven-year-olds die of cancer too, and it's not pretty. Yeah. And at the same time, it's given me an appreciation for life, and I'm absolutely grateful for those experiences because it helps you understand the depth of suffering that's possible in this world. And it fucking sucks to go through, and it's not fair. Right. And I felt guilty for having health. And that's not fair either. it's not my fault that I'm you know it's like it's weird like I'm not self I mean I felt selfish too

yeah and at the same time huh my dogs my dogs it's okay what is it like listening to me talk um sorry my dogs um I don't know I guess in a lot of ways I always say that it's like I sorry, my dogs, I have two beagles and they just bark nonstop. Do they need some attention? Do they, are they sensing a disturbance in the force in terms of your group? Yeah, my mom's getting them, I think. But I guess talking to you is really helpful because I feel like I've never really had like a parental guidance, I guess.

Like that's one of the things that I really struggle with is I feel like a lot of people are able to talk to, you know, like a mom or, their dad about things and you know both of my parents are like the last people I would ever want to talk to sure yeah I mean I think that that makes a lot of sense to me and I think there are a couple of other things to think about here which is that oh man okay so I'm glad so I'm happy to hear that I'm happy to sort of fill somewhat of a parental figure in your life um I think I do want to let me just think about where to take the conference. Any thoughts that you have or any questions or anything that you want to kind of dig more into? Because I have a lot, but.

I don't know. There are like just a lot of different, I feel like there's a lot of different elements of, I guess, my story that I feel like I need to dig into. Okay. I guess one of the things that I really still struggle with a lot is just trying to wrap my mind around all of the really awful abuse and just how there was like really no justice and like I said like I feel like my family still suffers with it every day and it's like he just got away with it and you know it's like I doubt he thinks about you know how it's affected my family. There's like a lot of anger there, I guess. Yeah, I can imagine. What is, what happens in your head when you think about him getting away with it? Like, he's left destruction and ruin in his wake,

and he gets to move on, and y'all are left in a city of shambles? I just, feels really unfair and unjust and I gosh I don't want to get banned for saying this but there were you know like throughout the years where this went on there were definitely times where I would like talk to my sister and just be like man I wish I could kill him not that I ever would but you know of course it's hard not to have those thoughts whenever you just have somebody just like relentlessly terrorizing your family like Sure. I think it's good that you didn't give into those thoughts. Right. And I mean, I never would, but it was something that, you know, there was, it just was like every day.

Like I, like I said, it was just like it went on just like so much. And it was just like so regular. Like he would, you know, he would, you know, steal money from my mom. stole my mom's car. He, there was the time where he, like, made my brother get in the trunk of a car and he stabbed my mom and said that he was going to kill them. He, like, drove for four hours and made my brother get in the trunk of a car and he stabbed my mom, like, three times. I don't know. I just think about it, and I'm just like, how did he get away with it? Like, how did nothing happen to him? And I know that it's because my mom was too afraid to press charges or anything. But it was just, there were times where I would have to go over there.

And he would usually, like, leave around the time where, like, I showed up, he'd just, like, take off because he was afraid I was going to call the cops or something. I don't know. and my mom would just like beg me she'd be like will you just stay here will you just stay like if he sees you're here he won't come he'll leave me alone and i would just have to just stay over at my mom's just because i guess it was like some sort of protection what's it like to have that kind of responsibility look back at it now, it seemed, whenever I look back at it now, it seems really scary, but I remember then not really being afraid, I guess. Sounds unfair to me. Sounds like a lot on your shoulders.

Yeah. Sounds hard. Exhausting. Superhuman, even. Yeah. Do you think of yourself as superhuman? I guess on a good day. I go back and forth.

I'm really happy to hear that. I have moments where I feel, I guess, like, very strong and resilient, but then moments where not so much. And what do you feel in those moments? Like, I'm capable of dealing with whatever's thrown my way, I guess. Like, I can overcome anything. What do you feel in the moments where you don't feel like that? Um, really, um, I guess because I have kind of had to be a bit of a provider, um, in moments where I don't feel like that. Like, I just feel like, like a complete failure. Like, you know, like you said, like I feel like I do carry a lot in my shoulders.

and I have, you know, my mom and my younger brother live with me. Like, I feel stressed that I won't be able to provide for them, I guess. Like, that's scary to me. Yeah? Do you feel like you've let people down? No. I don't really. feel like that at all? I'm happy to hear that too. It sounds like it'll go ahead, sorry. I was just

going to say like I think I do well, I guess, I'm coping with things in some way, but then I just do kind of a really bad job in other ways. It's like I'm somewhat there, but I don't know. Like one of the things that I always say, and I didn't realize like how wrong it was to say until, I would say like the past like five or six months is, um, I always say that my mom raised me to the best of her ability. Like she did the best that she was capable of doing. And, you know,

like I'm grateful for that, I guess. And I haven't realized until recently. that that's just like another kind of like cop out excuse that I kind of use. What are you excusing? How are you copping out? Like I don't want to say that my mom was a bad mother, but she, see, like I'll always say like she was the best mother that she was capable of being. And she tried in the ways that she could. But, you know, like, I feel like if I'm, I guess if I were looking at it from an outside perspective, I would be like, yeah, that's a pretty bad mom. So what is the cop out?

Is the cop out that you're not holding her responsible for? Yeah. Yeah. So I would agree with that. So I actually had this precise scenario with one of my first therapy patients, where I noticed that he said that his dad did the best that he could. Yeah. And then one day I realized he never said that his dad did a good job.

Yeah. He said that he did the best that he could. Yeah. And I think that there's some middle ground between understanding that she did the best that she could. And also understanding that she didn't do a great job. And understanding that you can forgive her because you love her. and also that like you deserved better. Yeah.

Right. And I think this is the tricky thing about the mind is that we try to do things like it's like it's really hard for us to not be either or. It's like A or B. It's like true false. No, it's not. It's like it's free answer. It's like an essay question. Yeah.

Right. And what I'm really hearing from you and I think what's important for you is to really acknowledge like. I mean, you can be grateful and you can be strong and you can be all of these things, but there's like the underbelly to all this shit, which is, Casey, this is awful. This entire story is just, it's bad, man. And, and like, I'm not trying to blame anyone. I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying, like, objectively, when I hear this, it's like, you know, any one of those

things is enough to really just destroy someone. watching a seven-year-old die of cancer, that's enough. Having a mom who uses meth, that's enough. Having an abusive stepdad, that's enough. Having a brother with autism, that can be really hard. Right? Because like you want so much for him and it can be hard. Sometimes when people have autism, like caregivers really suffer because you recognize that it can be hard for

him to be happy and that's really hard to watch. Yeah. Gosh, I love, you know, like I love my brother so much and I always tell him that he's one of the strongest people I know. And it is really difficult to see, you know, how he has dealt with the abuse as well because I don't know, like, it's like my whole family has like, like my brother definitely has PTSD. My mom has PTSD. I have PTSD.

You guys ever gotten treatment for it? No. So that needs to happen at some point. Yeah. It's, you know, it's hard because sure. You know, like I do come from like a low

income family. The only time where my mom has been able to get like any mental health care, I guess, is whenever she hasn't been, like, earning enough. And it's like, you know, oh, if you make $12 an hour, that's too much. Which is just a joke. But you live in the U.S. Yeah. After we're done with this call, can, you know, after we're done with the stream, like, let me know what state you're in. And then I'd love to have a conversation with you about

maybe how to game plan in terms of how to get mental health treatment. Because I think there's no doubt in my mind that that would be very helpful for all of you. It's, I don't know, like, I'm not trying to say, like, it wouldn't, it's just really, really difficult with my mom. Sure. My mom is very, I don't really know. Like, my mom, like I said, she has really extreme paranoia. And she, like, literally thinks that, like, everybody is an undercover cop or spy. She thinks that our house is bugged. She thinks that her phone is bugged. Like if she were to go to a counselor, so there's just like, it's really hard.

Because I don't know, she's one of those. I think a lot of it has to do with like all of the abuse. And she'll still, even though it's been, it's been like three years, she still like acts like he's out to get her. like it's I don't know it just like kind of

puts another obstacle with you know what about you like as far as me getting like yeah um I guess I've just always

kind of like had a hard time like I don't know like I guess I it's hard for me to talk to therapist because I feel like there's just like with Twitch I feel like there's just this whole

element of my life that's like really hard for them to kind of understand. Yeah. So, okay, let's talk about that for a minute. Okay. So the first thing is that like, you know, what we're talking about doesn't have much to do with Twitch, right? Yeah. And the second thing is that, but I get what you're saying.

I don't want to invalidate what you said because I think it's an important statement. I've heard this story time and time and time again. that, you know, a lot of our community goes and seeks mental health treatment. And sure, like, the, you know, a therapist can understand, you know, growing up in an abusive household, but they can't understand you. And they absolutely need to understand you. They can't treat like the PTSD in isolation because a good therapist has to understand who you are as a person. And gaming culture, streaming culture, Twitch are a part of that.

So I get what you're saying. I don't think that you can go there and just talk about this. and that's going to actually be effective, as bizarre as that sounds. What I would encourage all of y'all to do, though, is explain it to them. Yeah. So as a therapist,

there are all kinds of things that I don't understand. And at the top of the list is I have some clients who are women. Yeah. I don't understand what that's like. I can't understand what that's like. And if you work with a therapist, it's actually your responsibility to try to get them to understand. And if they're a half decent therapist, they'll do their best.

And one of the most interesting things that you can learn about this stuff is when you start to explain streaming culture and Twitch and your life to them, you are going to understand more about it than you ever realized. It can actually be one of the most therapeutic things to like explain to someone like what's stressful about your job. Right. Teaching is where you actually like really solidify your understanding. So I would just strongly encourage you. like I said, we can have a second conversation about logistics and stuff because I really do think, Casey, that you need, like, tried and true mental health treatment. And I know that a lot of people think that this is mental health treatment, but it really isn't. It's night and day. Yeah. I don't know. Like I said earlier, like I feel like I'm, like, at a point where I'm ready,

and I feel like this is kind of just like me, like, opening myself up to the idea. You know, like I feel like this is kind of like a takeoff point. I mean, I do, I guess I do have some other things. Like I, I haven't mentioned this yet, but my marijuana use. I guess a lot, like, I'm a marijuana user. And I actually do have a medical license for it. So I don't know. Like, I guess I do.

self-medicate. And I don't think that marijuana is like a terrible thing. Like honestly, like, I feel like in a lot of ways it helped, it has helped me a lot. But I do acknowledge that I guess my usage has gotten pretty bad. Like, I smoke too much. Sure. And I feel like a lot of it has to do with anxiety. Like, I feel like what I struggle with the most, like from all of this is just anxiety.

Like I feel restless a lot. It's hard for me to sit down. It's hard for me to stay, you know, like I just constantly like have these wondering thoughts. I guess sometimes I just get really, really anxious about something bad happening, I guess. Like I just get so anxious that something bad is going to happen again, you know, to just like bring me back to.

that or like it could get like that again is what I guess is one of my main fears. Yeah. So let me say something about that. So in my experience, anxiety is a chameleon. Yeah. Actually, sorry, anxiety isn't. Trauma is a chameleon. And it can look like all kinds of other things.

It can look like anxiety. It can look like depression. It can look like substance use. but when you say I'm worried that something bad is going to happen again, that speaks to me more about trauma than anxiety. And I think generally speaking, I detest the term anxiety because people use it as an umbrella term. Yeah.

It's like you're afraid that something bad is going to happen again, not because you have an anxiety problem, but because you live in a world where real bad shit can happen. And so that's your brain telling you, hey, this can happen. So let's worry about it. Because if we worry about it, then we can do something about it. Then it won't catch us off guard.

It's your brain trying to help you out. But that's, I mean, it sounds to me really more like trauma than anxiety. And there may be anxiety in there. I guess I've never looked at it that way. I guess, you know, like you said, I don't know. I guess I really didn't know how to think of what I was feeling. And I guess what made the most sense to me was anxiety. Like, I've never thought of it.

Like, I'm, you know, like, it's just trauma and I'm scared of, like, reliving that, I guess. But I feel like sometimes, like, I'll just be, like you said, like, I'm constantly kind of, I don't know, I guess, preparing myself for something like that. Like, I feel like a lot of times I can be kind of hypervigilant. Like, there are just certain things. Like, I feel like I kind of, like, the most recent thing. with Corona. I was one of those people who went out and stopped by it because I was just so afraid. I was like, I don't want anything bad to happen to my family.

And then I think, you know, just with the loss to cancer and that just being so rare, you know, it's so extremely rare that a child dies of cancer like that. It just made it all the more real that my family could be one of those people. I just feel like there's certain, like, I think that there's, I guess there's being like worried, but I feel like a lot of the time I see myself like going the next step. Sure. And that's because most people worry, but the next step is a hypothetical for them. For you, unfortunately, it's a reality.

Yeah. And that's what trauma looks. looks like. So hypervigilance is one of the main diagnostic criteria for PTSD. Right? It's like the plastic story that people hear is like a war veteran who like, you know, here's like a car muffler go off or something like that or a door slam shut and they're like always on the lookout. And that's not, they're not mentally ill. That's their brain training. them, hey, if this sound happens, we need to react first and think later. That's what trauma does to us, right? Like if I get bit by a snake, I'm going to be paranoid about ropes that look like snakes

in dark rooms. And what you're kind of describing, I mean, like, I think trauma is really like it's the real trickster of mental health because it can look like all kinds of things. It can look like paranoia. It can look like substance use. It can look like anxiety. It can look like like depression. And this is where, you know, sometimes the analogy that I use with people is like, you can plant a seed and the seed turns into a plant. And then if I ask you, Casey, show me where the seed is in the plant. Can you find it?

In the roots? Is the seed in the roots? I dig up the plant. I look at all the roots. Is there a seed there? I guess in the blood. It grew. I don't know. The short answer is it isn't, right?

It used to look, it started in one way and then it turned into something else. Although you can also say that just because I can't find the seed, the plant is absolutely there. And without the seed, it would have never existed, even though it looks completely different. So in your case, something happened to you where a seed was planted and over a decade, it has turned out to look like something else. Yeah. But at the end of the day, if you want to go back and really free yourself of this, I think you've got to go back to where it started. And there are a couple of things here, which we haven't even scratched the surface of, which I don't even know if you've ever thought about. Yeah.

But I wonder long and hard about when you were young, like, because you feel selfish for having needs, right? Yeah. And so, like, the interesting thing is, like, that's not because you're a good person. in fact like it has like nothing to i mean sure like you're a good person but generally speaking people who feel like they're selfish for having basic needs are taught that it's selfish to have basic needs yeah we believe the things that we were taught right like our thoughts and our opinions yeah go ahead i was gonna say like i've been thinking about this recently I don't know. I feel like it was never that anybody like told me, oh, you can't have this certain

thing or you can't do this certain thing. I just remember being very young and always just Casey, but they absolutely did. But go ahead and say what you're going to say. I was, I just, I guess I just remember being young and just acknowledging that I was poor and my family didn't have money for these things. So never asking. Yeah. So I, I, that I get. But I think like, you know, if I had to put my money down, I think it's like subtle things. So like, how old, how old were you when your mom started using meth? Um, four, five, um, I guess my dad was, my dad was in and out of prison most of my life whenever I was younger. Um, they, both my parents started using, actually, I was probably more like three. Um, so let me just,

ask you a question. We're not going to talk about you. We're going to talk about a three-year-old. Yeah. Okay. So what does a three-year-old do when they're hungry? Cry for food? Sure. Sometimes they cry. But even before that. Ask for food. Absolutely, right? You go up to mommy and you say, mommy, I'm hungry. Can I have something to eat? And when you have a parent who has substance use, how do they respond to that request? Um I don't know

I guess I just remember my mom being I did My grandparents were really involved But I remember like during this time Whenever I was very young Just like my mom being Incapacitated I guess You know

Like you know Having the highs and then the lows Where she would just like be asleep for days Mm-hmm And I remember, like, I guess, being very young and just, like, staying my mom asleep and being like, well, she's not going to wake up. I don't know. Yeah. Did you ever feel like you were bothering her?

Yeah, definitely. Right? So, like, what does bothering mean? It means, hey. Asking for anything. Absolutely. Hey, I'm a fucking three-year-old and I'm hungry and, oh, shit, I'm sorry to bother you, mom, but can I have a. some food because that's how she made you feel.

Because that's like that's what a three year old thinks. It's like, oh, I don't want, like they just understand. So you get taught like at the age of three that your needs inconvenience other people. And then you feel selfish

for needing stuff. And it's like baked so deep down, man. It's like wired like literally I want you to think about this Casey. A three-year-old's brain is building. It's like it has an architecture, and deep into the architecture of the way that your neurons

is the idea that I am not allowed to have needs. Yeah, and I guess that's something that's kind of just echoed throughout my whole life, I guess. Yeah, and that's because you were wired that way, right? Like, that's why they echo through your life, because like literally this is not, it's not psychological. It's like neurological. And so now like everything sort of makes sense.

Oh yeah, I watch the seven-year-old die of cancer and I'm grateful and I feel selfish. Like what the fuck? Because that's the way you learned how to think about things. Right? Like you learned like, so the three-year-old isn't allowed to have needs. The 21-year-old isn't allowed to have needs. The 25-year-old isn't allowed to have needs because your mom is using math and your other as autism. There's no room. And like, we got this like 30 minutes in, right? You talk about the

impact to everyone else. Where are you? You don't deserve a place in your own story. Yeah. There's no space for you. Even now, when we talk about, what are you worried about? It has nothing to do with yourself. It's like, what if I can't support my family? There's no room for you. And, and like, you know, when it comes back to like blame and being angry at your mom and stuff like that, Like, in order for you to be angry at your mom, you have to be a part of the equation. There's no room for that. There's only, she did the best that she could and let's give her a pass, which is fine. Like, I think it's good.

You know, I don't, in a sense, like, I think, you know, people who suffer from addiction, they have a disease to unclear what her upbringing was like. She should get some slack. We should be compassionate. And you should be a part of the equation. I guess I'm just like, I don't even know how to. Yeah. I don't know. It's just like I just don't even know how to.

start. Yeah. Because and that too is like not your fault because I just think about this. Like you're like a three year old and I'm you got to let me know if I'm making you feel like an asshole or bad. Okay. Oh, you're fine. So like I just want you to think about a three year old who like was never taught language. And then they find themselves at 25 and they're like, I don't know how to learn language.

And you're damn right because you weren't taught like this stuff gets taught really, really, really early. And it gets taught completely subconsciously. Parents don't try to teach it. It's just how kids learn. Like, kids just learn stuff that has never taught to them. Right. And my kid has been doing this thing recently where she'll come up to me and she'll go like this. And like, I didn't teach her how to do that. I didn't be like, okay, hold up your hand like a claw and try to scare me. Like she just picks that up. They just pick it up. And unfortunately, Casey, it's going to be a long road. And it's going to be confusing. It's almost more like rehab. Like, not like drug rehab, but like, like, it's like you have to rehabilitate, like, some of your emotional centers and your sense of self. And you can, uh-huh. I was, that's, I don't, I don't know. Like, sometimes I just feel myself, like, even, like, just doubting my own emotions, I guess. Yeah.

I don't know. Like, it's. Yeah, of course, because you've been pushing them aside your entire life. Right? Like, how did you do that when you were. 21, you don't think you could do that again. Yeah, because like your survival mechanism is to like discount and invalidate your emotions. And it's a damn good one and I'm glad you did it because I think that's why your family is still in the position that it's in. If it weren't for you,

I can't imagine what would have happened to your brother. Yeah. And so now the question, here's the real thing. And I don't know, I don't think you know how to do this, but can you be you for yourself? I don't know. I guess it's just hard to even know what that looks like. Absolutely, because it's fucking weird. Yeah. Right? Like, can you protect yourself?

Can you look out for yourself? Like, it's hard. I don't even know, like, in your case, I don't even know where to start. Like, I don't know. I mean, I see what needs to happen. I'm not quite sure where to begin. But I think we've already begun.

It's kind of the acknowledgement and understanding that, like, you know, you don't have, in the hierarchy of what you care about, it's not myself. I'm one of the lower. Yeah. Beautiful, right? So that's how it starts.

You finish the sentence that I start. And once you're able to do that, that means you understand. Right? And we're not saying, and I'm not advocating that you should be number one, and I don't think you're the kind of person that can ever be number one in your life.

But can we eat? Yeah. I was just going to say I was, I don't know, like I was thinking about it yesterday and I feel like that's just what I am. Like, that's what I'm used to being. I'm used to being a provider, a protector. Sure. You know, it's like it's hard to, it's hard to think of myself being a different way, I guess. Or I guess like putting those guards down and not being that for my family scares me.

Yeah. So oddly enough, I don't think that that's what you have to do. So I'm not saying, because I think you. are a provider, I think you are a protector. I think you have a duty or Dharma responsibility to your family. And I think abandoning that would destroy you as a person. That's what's kept you alive. And so if people are curious about Dharma, this is what Dharma looks like. How are you able to survive all of this terrible stuff? It's because of your duty to your

responsibility to your family. What I'm asking for is can you can you stick yourself in the top 10? It's not even top 5, top 10. So there's mom, there's brother, maybe a romantic relationship, two beagles. Can you give yourself number six or number seven? Yeah. I guess like I said, it's just like hard to know like what that looks like. Like what are the small steps that I can take to do that? Okay.

Great question. I just don't even know how. So they're like I'll do things like I feel like in a lot of ways like I'll spoil myself a lot. Like I'll go shopping and, you know, before. Your dogs protest. Yeah. I guess I'll, you know, like I'll take myself shopping or get my hair done or whatever, but I guess just all material things. Uh-huh.

I guess I just don't know how to aside from materialistically, I guess, I don't know. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's tricky. I think conversations like this are actually a big step forward. Right. So giving yourself the time and space to think about yourself. Because I don't even know if you let yourself do that. Right? I'm having a dryer delivered.

So I'm sorry. What were you saying, though? No, I was saying that conversations like this are a great. place to start. Scout, stop. She won't listen. It's okay. I'm just used to barking all the time.

That's not the only thing you're used to. Yeah. Hold on. I'm going to see if I can get hurt to stop. Yeah, take your time. Okay. Sorry. No problem.

I'm sorry. What were you saying? Um, I was saying that I think conversations like this are a good first step because like you're giving yourself space and time to think about yourself, right? Like you're doing something like you're doing this like who are you doing this for? Myself. Is this materialistic? No. Okay. So that's a step in the right direction, right? Because what we're saying is you need to do things for yourself that are not materialistic. So great. Good job. You've done it. High five. Yeah. I think the next thing that I would really, really encourage you to do is get,

really think about getting some kind of treatment or therapy. And how do you feel about that? I don't, like, I have seen a psychiatrist, but I guess I haven't really, like, explored that aside from getting prescribed. Like, I was prescribed Adderall for my ADHD. and then I also am prescribed Xanax, which I don't really like to take. I don't know. Like, I don't really feel like I need to be medicated, which I guess isn't the point of therapy, right?

Yep. The exact opposite. I don't know. I feel like I could definitely benefit from it. I just, I guess it's just fear of maybe not. Like, what if I don't? Yep. Yeah.

So that's what we got to kind of tackle head on, right? Because the issue here is that like, what if you don't? But like this is the thing. You only let yourself do it if it's going to work because, you know, you're not worth trying things for. Do you see that? Like you can only do it if it's going to help. Like if there was something that could help your brother, you do it. But if there's something that could help you, that's not good enough.

It's not worth your time. energy, your resources, if it could help, which is fine. Like if something could help your mom, you're all for it. Could help your dogs. You're all for it. Could help your brother. You're all for it. Could help you.

Not good enough. And so that's what I would encourage you to really tackle and think through and just give yourself a space to work on yourself. And then you'll figure it out. Like, I'm not worried about you, Casey, bizarrely. Really? Yeah. I feel kind of relieved now, I guess, like just in talking about it all.

And I feel like kind of, I guess, getting like a positive response. Not that I was expecting like anything bad. I just, I don't know. Yeah, I'm glad you feel about it. Can I tell you why I'm not worried about you? I mean, I should be, but I'm not. What I feel is not worry. I feel optimism.

And here's the reason. So what games do you play, by the way? Do you play games? I've been mostly playing team fight tactics. Okay, so I'm not too familiar with T-Leg of Legends. So like here's the thing. Like, let's say you're playing team fight. Yeah, I can't, I don't have a good analogy there.

So I'm just going to make that point. So like here's the thing. Like you were dealt a pretty shitty hand in life and you ended up okay. Yeah. Right? and so like I'm way more optimistic like what worries me is when people are given a great hand in life

and they end up in a bad place because I think like in your case you just need to you just need like a little bit of support and a little bit of tools and like you're gonna you're gonna fly because if you can get through what you've gotten through

and be the person that you are today boy it's like it's like you're you're playing a competitive game with a potato PC on satellite internet and you're still crushing nobs. And it's like if we give you an actual computer and take the lag off,

it's going to be terrifying what you're capable of. Because that's what I see. And if you can just help yourself out a little bit, like it's going to be ridiculous. Because you've been playing life with a fucking handicap this whole time. And so what makes me optimistic is like

if we take off the handicap, like people are going to start whining and they're going to be asking the devs for a patch because you're crushing them so hard. Yeah. Sorry. I just like, I always just go back. Like, I don't know whenever you said that.

Like, I just always go back to, like, my life wasn't that bad. Yeah. Which, you know, like, we've been talking about this whole time. It's just like such a, I don't know, it's like a defense mechanism type thing. Yeah.

Defense mechanism type thing. I think that relates to the idea that like you having needs are selfish. Like you just discount yourself. Your life wasn't that bad. Okay. Fine. I mean, so I think it's,

so this is the other thing is how do you move forward? You notice that, right? Like it's really, really a huge support. I cannot over emphasize how important the statement that you just made is. And you just have to trust me on that. To just acknowledge it.

To see it. Right? Because you're saying, how do I change my mind? You start by understanding what the fuck is going on in there. That's you opening the hood of your car. And that's what makes me optimistic because you can notice, oh, there it is again. Like there's that pattern that pops up. Right.

And like if you want to know how to get rid of that pattern and change the pattern, the first thing that you have to do is see its action. Yeah. You have to notice it. Then you can start to change it. But noticing is where things start. I'm able to notice it, I guess. But yeah, like the changing it part was just like a whole other thing.

I'm just like, how do I even? But I guess like you were saying earlier, it's what did you say? It's more like neurological and psychological? It's neurological than psychological. Like it's like a like just like some circuit in my brain that's formed. Yeah. So like how do I? It's like I have to retrain my brain.

Casey, Casey. Okay. great. Now I'm excited. Okay. And apologies if that's inappropriate. Because let me tell you, let me tell you. So this is cool. So this is why I like neuroscience. So I'm going to say something that is going to hopefully blow your mind. I find it mind blowing. The way that you change your neurons is actually noticing. There is overwhelming scientific evidence that changing your brain does not require intention. It requires attention. Literally to. Attention is what causes neuronal plasticity and frontal lobe development. That is the mechanism through which meditation works. So we have overwhelming evidence that meditation changes your brain. Like, we know that. I've actually started meditation recently.

I've started doing meditation recently. Like, actually just like this past like a couple of weeks, I would say. Cool. That's good for you. you. I'm going to get to that in a second, but I'm an academic. And when I get to talk about something that I know, I like to keep plowing forward. Can I keep plowing forward? So I want to just say that like literally, so Casey, you're wondering how do I change? What I'm telling you is you actually don't need to. Like literally what studies of meditation show because in meditation, no one is trying to change anything.

They're just observing themselves. And what we see is that observing yourself actually rewires your brain. They don't have to try to change anything. And that's why, meditation works so well because it doesn't sort of matter what your problem is. It doesn't matter who you are. Just noticing it is sufficient for change. And if you kind of think about it, like, you can see that principle in other places because like, you know, sometimes you'll be like, oh, why do I do this? And then you'll have like this light bulb go off and you're like, oh, that's why I do it. And then you stop doing it. I never realized dot, dot, dot, dot. That drinking water makes me feel good. And then like one day people wake up and they're like, oh, I realize that

drinking water is good for me. And then I started drinking water. And then you ask people like, how did you start drinking water? They're like, I don't know. I just sort of realized it one day. It's weird. Does that make sense? Like you ever just like realized something and then sort of like started doing it? Yeah. But I guess I just like it just made me think like how I kind of like came to this realize, realization that I, um, you know, set my feelings aside a lot or I don't allow myself to acknowledge my own feelings, and I feel like I have came to that realization. And maybe it's not changing that much, or maybe it is, and it's just changing very slowly. Okay, Casey. So let me ask you a question. Do you think coming, when did you come to that realization? Um, I would, I, I think it's

been fairly recent, like I would say, six months. Okay. So do you think that has anything to do with you coming on stream today. Yeah. So that's how change happens. So you have one realization and that allows you to take the next step, which then allows you to take the next step. And you're looking at the top of Mount Everest. And you're saying each step that I take doesn't seem to be moving me towards my destination

because I have 30,000 feet to climb and I have now moved up two inches. It doesn't seem to be making a difference. but that's literally how change happens. One step at time. It's the only way to do it. And so just keep going on the path that you're on and you will be amazed at where you end up. Only way it can happen.

Can't rush it. There's no magic bullet. There's certainly ain't a pill. You're saying, how do I take care of yourself? Like you realize something six months ago. Why did you realize it six months ago? Because you spent the time thinking about yourself, which 10 years ago or 8 years ago or 7 years ago,

you did not even give yourself the space in your mind to think about yourself. That's a huge step. Then you have a realization. Then you come on stream. Then we have a conversation. Then you decide, oh, maybe I should do therapy. But like six years ago, you're like, eh, I'm not worth it. Tiny, tiny steps.

A house is built one brick at a time. And no brick makes the house. It's weird. Yeah. Like if I lay two bricks, am I building a house? Yeah. Really? Because I just see two bricks.

Where's the house? Show me. I don't know. I guess I was just thinking you're starting to build a house. I'm sorry. I'm just like so anxious and, you know, stressed out. Like my mind's racing. Okay.

Sorry about that. Your answer is actually the right answer because it's the wrong answer. I'm sorry if I'm freaking you out. Yeah. But like because it's exactly right. Is it the house? Sure. You're starting, but it's not the house yet.

It sort of isn't. It sort of isn't. And that's what your growth is going to be like. Yeah. Yeah. So I ask people questions and sometimes it makes them feel self-conscious. Is that way? No, I just, like I said, I just, like I'm happy. Like, I feel like I'm having like a lot of realizations and stuff that you have said, you know, that's made sense to me. And it's just like, it's, you know, like you've just said like a few things that have really, I don't know, I guess,

kind of dropped a bomb on me, I guess. And it's just like trying to. process it all at once, right? Like, I've been trying to write down notes and stuff, but yeah. I understand that there are these... Yeah. Yeah, so I can see that it's overwhelming. And I'm not sure if I should say, I'm sorry or you're welcome. No, it's fine.

No, it's been really helpful. Can you just help me understand what, has been like what you realized um i guess you know like i said i have kind of been coming to this realization that i um you know set aside my own feelings and needs a lot and you know like i have a lot of self doubt and just hearing it from somebody else is like okay you know it kind of makes it more real like oh maybe i wasn't just thinking this maybe it's true like you know Um Yeah

Certainly sounds true to me Yeah so actually that's it right So there you did it You did it Yeah You validated You validated your feelings Just then I just realized that

That's pretty cool You see that? I don't know if that makes sense It's kind of abstract But did I? Yeah like just in that acknowledgement That sometimes you don't acknowledge yourself You're acknowledging yourself

Yeah It's weird It's kind of like in But anyway. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah. See, you did it. And you're like, how do I change? And the short answer is, I don't know, but just keep doing what you're doing. And I think you'll be good. Yeah.

Do you have questions for me, Casey? Um, I guess one of the other things that I wanted, I don't know. Like, I talked about my marijuana use. And sometimes, like, my chat can just get, because I do smoke too much. Like, and I guess I acknowledge. that I need to cut back, but I'm like, do I have an addiction problem? You know, like, I do, like, both of my parents have addiction issues. I'm like, I don't know, I don't know, but then it's really easy for me to just be like, oh, marijuana isn't a big deal. You know, like, I'm, I grew up around marijuana my whole life. Like, my mom smoked marijuana in front of me my whole life and did way worse shit.

And I guess, like, I feel like to a certain degree, like, oh, if the worst thing that I do is smoke weed, you know, like, that's pretty good for me considering. But I don't know. Like, I guess, I don't want to, because, you know, you don't know, like, the full thing, I guess, but do you think that I have an issue with addiction to marijuana? I know that sounds so stupid, but, like, sometimes, like, I don't know if they're joking. Do you think you have an issue with marijuana?

I don't know. Like, I think I smoke too much, but I just don't even think that it's that bad. Okay. So I think I can get behind that. So do I think you have an issue with marijuana? Yes, because you think you have an issue with marijuana. Yeah. You think you have an issue with marijuana.

It's just not a very big issue. That's what I'm hearing from you. Is that a fair representation? I can get behind that. Yeah. So here's what I'll say about marijuana and substances in general. Okay. Yeah.

So I think that like you said, it sounds like you have medical marijuana and that a lot of people self-medicate. And do I think that that's a problem? Absolutely. But I think that cutting back is not a solution. It's a consequence. And if you want to cut back on your marijuana use, you have to deal with the reasons why you reach for. it in the first place. So if there's one thing that I've understood as an addiction psychiatrist, it's that telling someone to stop drinking alcohol is not enough. You have to get to why they

drink alcohol in the first place. And in your case, I think that you should reduce your marijuana consumption, absolutely, even try without smoking for like six months and just see what that does to your brain because I think you're going to be surprised. Yeah. And, but that's, That starts with like recognizing that the reason that you smoke is because all the shit that we're talking about to begin with. The anxiety, which is really, which started as the seed of trauma which grew into the plant of anxiety in which you don't really see the seed there anymore. And so you got to deal with all that crap because like as long as that stuff is going on, you said, I don't know how I survived. The way that you survived is through coping mechanisms. Yeah.

And that includes things like marijuana. Yeah, I guess I never, I never even started smoking marijuana until 2014. I was one of those people. I was always really, really afraid. I never drank. I never did drugs because, you know, I saw what it did to my parents. And I was genuinely afraid of it. And my sister was always kind of more of the black sheep, I guess, of the family.

and she, you know, one night we were hanging out and she was just, you know, she got really excited because I was like, I want to try it and I tried it. And I just remember during that time, I was, you know, it was really terrible time. And I just remember, like, whenever I smoked it being like the first time where I was like happy and giggly and, you know, like in a while. And I guess maybe that's why I've like, really take into it so much because, like you said, it was a coping mechanism during that time. Yeah, so I think, yes, right. Oh, go ahead. So, Casey, that makes a lot of sense to me, and that's what I tend to hear, right? And so the solution there is not to just stop the marijuana and let the awfulness of life come rushing back, the solution there is to learn how to be happy and giggly without it, because then you won't need it anymore.

Yeah. And I think that there is a real problem where people start to become, that becomes their source of happy giggly. And then it's like, that doesn't sound healthy to me at all. Like I think what I really advocate for is for people to like, you know, process your emotions, deal with your anger, blame your parents, what have you. and then get past that stuff and then like be able to enjoy life for what life has to offer because life is really amazing. It's really awful and it's really amazing and that those two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

And I would love it. I think the real solution that I want for you is to live a life where you don't need marijuana to be happy and giggly. Yeah. I guess the idea of getting like I don't know the idea of like not doing marijuana completely. I just, I'm going to be honest, I don't like. Of course you don't like it. I enjoy smoking. You know, it's like, like is it bad to think like, oh, I never want to not. Like I never want to know a life or I don't.

No, of course not. It's completely good. It's an ordinary thought. It's an understandable thought. How, like, how do you know? Like, I guess it's just in everything in moderation type thing. And I guess I guess I know. that I'm not moderating it very well right now.

How do I know when I'm moderating it well? Okay, how do you know that you're not moderating it well? Because I smoke too much. But how do you know that? You're asking me, how do I know when it's an okay amount? Honestly, I'm actually, I actually don't, I'm actually prescribed like four ounces. No, no, no, no, none of that shit matters. Let me, your answer is in your question.

You said, how do I know when it's okay? And then my question to you is, my answer is the same. same way that you know it's not okay, because you know it's not okay. We've heard you say it's not okay like a thousand times. So whenever that sense of you tells you, hey, this is okay, that's when you'll know it's okay. Yeah. You know. And how much you've been prescribed has nothing to do with whether it's an okay amount or not. If you want to talk about a fucking cop out, I don't think you coped out until this moment. This is a cop out. Yeah. And I don't think you have to give it up today, I'm not asking you to give it up today. I'm saying that I think in my experience,

I think it's worth, and even then, I didn't say give it up forever. I'd say, take a break from it for a couple months. And what I said is see how you feel. Now, if you have trouble doing that, then that also is concerning, right? Like, if I want to say, like, hey, I want to take a break from meat for a couple of months, like, I think it's important to be able to try things in your life to see if they're going to help you feel better and if your life is better. Not asking you to make a commitment, but I mean, you're asking me, do I think you have a problem? And the answer is damn right. I think you have a problem. And what do I base that on? It's because you think you have a problem. And you know way more about you than I do.

Like I, I mean, I just met you like an hour ago. What the fuck do I know? I guess I can acknowledge I have, like I said, like I acknowledge that I've been smoking way too much. And I can acknowledge that I have a problem. I just, I guess I'm just like, I don't really care to do anything about it. And I, I don't know. Like, I guess I'm just like. So that's, that's fine, Casey. I don't think you should do anything about it right now.

Yeah. Like, like, so, so here's what I want you to just notice for a second, okay? That you have a compass. And this compass is telling you, hey, this is a problem, but I can't deal with this shit right now. That's what I'm hearing your compass tell you. Is that accurate? Yeah. Okay. I can get behind that 100%. So I can say, sure, this is a problem and you have bigger fish to fry. Because by the way, you have bigger fish to fry.

You've lived a life in an abusive household with an asshole stepfather and a mother who's suffered for substance use and you've learned how to invalidate yourself. That's what we've been talking about. That's what I think you should focus on. I think the marijuana is going to be a piece of that down the road, but I think it is completely idiotic to ask you to like cut back or, I mean, I guess we can ask you to try to cut back and see how that goes. But I don't think it's reasonable for you to stop because like I said earlier, the real solution to substance use is to not need the shit to begin with.

And that's where the real healing happens. I don't think that forcing yourself to stop smoking pot and then having a life that's miserable every day is like that's not the goal. That doesn't sound good to me. The way that I get people off of substances is by helping them build a life where they don't need them. And then if you want to use it, go for it.

But you shouldn't be dependent on it. That I just personally is a value system. I don't like being dependent on something. I don't like being in control of my life. And I don't like, I want to help people be in fucking control of your life. Make a choice. Don't make it a dependency.

Don't make it a necessity. Make it a choice. And that's what I would advocate for you. And then once you are in a place where you can make a choice, then you make the choice. And it's your choice to make. And I may judge you for it. Other people may judge you for it. But let it be your free choice without a psychological dependence, without a neurological dependence.

be free to choose what you want to do with your life, whether that be marijuana, marriage, having kids, living alone, traveling, whatever. Live the life that you want to live and give yourself the benefit of choice. Yeah. This really has been really helpful, like I said. Like, I feel like this is, you know, kind of like a starting off point for me. And I don't know. like I'm scared to get into therapy, but I guess I'm ready for it. You should be scared.

What, I don't know, like, I guess I'm kind of like, what does therapy even, like, look like for someone like me? Like, in the position that I'm in, like, if I did, like, go that route, like, what does that route, like, entail? Like, how often am I going to have to go? How are you, how often are you going to have to go? You're not, you don't have to go at all. Right. So that even gives us a clue as to what's in your head. You're thinking about a commitment.

You're not laying a brick. You're building a house. What I'm asking you to do, Casey, is lay one brick. Go to one session. Lay a couple. Give it like, I'd give it like a month or two. And then what do you do? I'm not even sure.

I have no fucking idea. Honestly, I don't. Because when I do therapy with someone, like, I don't have a preconceived notion. of like the whole point is that it takes time to figure out what someone needs. It's going to take time for you to figure out what you need. But my sense is that it's going to be a place. So here's what I think would be helpful about it.

Here's the only treatment benefit that I can really see right now. It's going to be the one place in your life where you are at the top of the list for one hour a week. Guaranteed. No one else is at the top of the list except for you for one hour of your life every week, which is not that much, and I think you could, oh, you can buy yourself one hour week. Because a therapist is going to do their job, which is putting you at the top of the list. And you're asking yourself, you're asking me, how do I put myself on the list? Well, you go to therapy so they, you see how someone else does it for you and then you learn how to do it yourself.

It's just like learning anything else. Like, how do my kids learn how to butter bread? It's like, I'm like, okay, this is how you butter bread. So for one hour a week, you're going to go to a place where you're going to be a place where you're going to come first. And then you're going to see how they do it. And because you're fucking smart, you're going to learn how to do it. Just by watching.

Because that's how we learn. Yeah. Okay. What do you, what are you thinking? I don't know. Like, I guess I feel really positive right now. I just, I overall feel really positive. Like, I feel like this has been really helpful to me.

I feel like in some ways you kind of like, I guess like gave me confirmation of something that I already knew, but I just needed to hear from somebody else. But yeah, I don't know. I'm excited, I guess. Cool. I'm happy to hear that. Do you have any of the darker feelings? Concern, fear. Yeah, I guess I have concern and fear. like I feel like it'll be okay. So I'm not super worried about those. Great. That sounds very, very healthy to me.

Yeah. I would be concerned if you're all sunshine and rainbows. Yeah. Because I think that you should be afraid. You should be concerned. You should be worried that this may not work out, that you may not be able to do it, that it may not be helpful, that you may be unsolvable, and that your problems are so bad that nothing will ever help. Those are good feelings to have. Yeah.

And just let them have their space. And you don't have to be controlled by them. Yeah. Okay. So any last thoughts, questions? That's really that I can think of now. Like, I feel like I have a lot to think about, you know? Good.

And I'm ready to just kind of take it all in, you know. Yeah. So the last thing that I'll say is that sometimes I teach people how to meditate on stream. I think this is another. Yeah. I guess that's like I said, I started meditating or trying to meditate recently. And I have to say like at first it just feels really dumb. Like I feel really dumb doing it or trying to do it, you know?

Uh-huh. And when you say at first, are you over that hump? Are you still in the I feel dumb doing it hump? Um, I'm maybe in between. Like sometimes I feel less dumb than other times. normal to feel that way? Absolutely. By the way, that feeling never really goes away.

I still sometimes feel dumb when I meditate. It's just part of it. That's actually part of the process. Is feeling dumb. That's actually why I think meditation is so good because when you get used to feeling dumb, your life gets a lot easier. When you let yourself feel incompetent and you're okay with feeling into competent and you don't let the incompetence restrict what you do and you can go and you can sit with yourself being dumb and you can let yourself

being dumb, world becomes a completely different place. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, can you tell me a little bit about how you meditate or do you want to learn a different technique today? Are you kind of white? I guess I've been like, there's a few different things that I've tried to do, right? Because there's no right way to do it, I guess. Like, I've been listening to a few different podcasts and stuff about it. And one of the ideas that I liked was just trying to, um, put yourself like in a mindset or a space where there's limitless doubt. Um, or, you know, there is no doubt. And I really liked that thought, just like trying to, you know, think about how my life would be, like, if I didn't doubt myself. This one's really dumb, but one of the other things that I'll do is I'll just try to think of a word,

like, I don't know, like, I'll just think of a word, like, emotion, and I'll just like repeatedly say it in my head until it, feels like it doesn't have a meaning anymore. Does that sound stupid? No, that's actually called Jepa. What is that called? There's a Sanskrit word for it. There's a Sanskrit practice, a meditative practice, that you've discovered all by your lonesome. Okay. So it's the very opposite of stupid. It's actually brilliant. Weird, huh? Yeah. How do you feel when I say that? I don't know. I was just laughing. It's kind of in a, I don't know if it's inappropriate to say, but I had that. I, I microdosed a little bit of mushrooms like a couple weeks ago and that's whenever I had that kind of moment. Sure. That's also completely makes sense because meditative practices are

developed. Yeah. By people who are in a different state of consciousness and mushrooms, MDMA, psilocybin are ways that people can. and sort of like, you know, take the fast lane to some of those spaces. The problem is you don't really know what you're getting when you do that. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

So do you want to learn something today or you feel? Because I think especially after like sessions like this, I don't think or streams like this that I don't think that you necessarily need to meditate. Sometimes it's just good to sit alone with your thoughts. But if you want to learn something, I can teach you something. I'm open to learning something. Okay, so then sit up straight. Okay. Okay.

So, good. So you're looking at me? Is this? Yeah. Okay, good. So when you look at, so we're going to have a little conversation. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. Then I'm going to ask you to close your eyes and do some other stuff.

Okay. So like, let's start with this. So Casey, something's wrong with you, right? Yeah. Yeah. Right? So like, let's just think about like, what are some of the things that are wrong with you? We're not trying to like talk about.

I'm just saying, like, let's just acknowledge or notice. Like, what are some of the things that are wrong with you? Trauma. Sure. Good. I guess maybe sense of self-value. Great. Anxiety.

Sure. I don't know. Okay, great. That's good enough. It's hard to think of yourself, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, that's perfect. Okay, so now I want you to sit up straight, back straight.

Is your back straight? Yeah. Okay, good. Set up straight. Close your eyes. I want you to actually take your hands. Look at me. Do this.

Do. One palm inside, right palm inside the left palm, like laying on top. Yeah, perfect. Put your thumbs together. Great. And then put this in your lap. Okay. Face up.

Looks like you turned them down. Like this? No, other way. Okay. There you go. Okay. All right. So this is Pairabamudra, which is a hand thing. Don't worry about it.

Close your eyes. And now I want you to find. So just let's start with a breath. Good. I want you to notice the cool air going in. No, it's not mouth. Okay. It's okay to smile.

Okay to laugh. Okay to feel silly. No big deal. Feeling giggly yet? Yeah. Okay. Cool. So just focus on your breath. Feel it coming into your chest and out. Y'all can do this at home too. So think about some things that are wrong with you.

Okay. Good. Head straight. Your spine should be straight. Yeah. Nope. Straight. Force it. Feel the discomfort. No hunching. Good. Return to your breath. If your breath is hard to hold on to, focus on the sensations in your hands. Feel the weight of one hand on the other. Feel the sensation of the skin on skin.

Touch your thumb tips together and feel your thumbs touching each other. And now, in this place, Casey, find your trauma. Where is it? And now we're going to move on, so we're not going to get lost in it. Now look for your invalidation of self. Can you find that?

Where is that? Tell me. I don't know. Like, I just, like, I guess I just see it in, like, a lot of different aspects of my life. Like, I invalidate, you know, like, my morning process, I guess. Like I invalidate. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

So pause for a second. Head up straight. Spine straight. Good. Now, eyes closed. Good. Okay. So those are thoughts.

Those are recollections of the invalidation. In this moment, tell me where the invalidation exists within you. I guess. I don't know my mind. Does it exist? Because your mind thinks about the past. I'm asking you in the now, where is the invalidation? Breath through the nose.

Head up straight. Good. Deep breath in and out. Look for it in this moment. Try to find it. Try to pick it up. You can focus on your hands, focus on your breath. Find the invalidation.

Feel the person that you are. right now. Feel your weight in the chair. Feel the tears on your cheeks. Feel the tension in your body. Breathe in, expand, and relax. Good. Now let your shoulders, go ahead and take a breath, but don't

move your shoulders. And there's a fly on your face. Okay. Good. So now I'm going to ask you, where's the invalidation? I don't know. I guess I don't know. I guess I don't understand.

Like, can you rephrase? Nope. I'm not going to rephrase. So I think the problem is that I'm asking a question to which I think you have the answer, but I don't think you think you have the answer. So I think the reason that you can't find it is because it's not really there.

Because you can find the invalidation when you think about the past and when you think about the ways that you treat yourself. But when you start, and you're still and you're in this moment, it actually doesn't exist. It's a trick question. Okay. And the fact that you can't come up with an answer, I'm so glad you didn't come up with some bullshit answer because it's hard when you're on stream to like not come up with the right answer.

But if you really stop and look in yourself, like, could you find it? No. So just think about that for a second. that whenever you invalidate yourself, you have within you the capacity to enter a state of being where that invalidation no longer exists. You do it every morning in your routine.

Fine. But if you can do what you just did, if you can put yourself in that same state in your morning routine, it won't be able to exist there either. Invalidation comes from the mind. Yeah. And it's the looking that you,

do, that's not actually mental activity. That's consciousness. It's attention. It's attention without thought. And if you can go there, I don't know if this is making sense or not, but I think you did it right. Because if you ask me, can I rephrase? That actually means you're doing it right, because you're looking for an answer and you're not able to find one. And that's actually the answer. There's no such thing as invalidation. So now my last question for you is, I don't know if you remember this, but when you think about the person that you were, let's say, 90 seconds ago, what was wrong with you? Like whenever I was thinking about

when you were breathing and feeling the tears go down your face what was wrong with you? I guess I was just thinking a lot about whenever Ricky passed away. Okay. I'm going to jump in. I'm going to interrupt you, okay?

So that too, once again, is thinking. that's not actually you. Those are thoughts. Stay with me, okay? This is going to be harder. So I want you to close your eyes and focus fully on the sensation. There's a tear going down your right cheek in this moment.

If we're lucky the fly is going to come back and he's going to land on your face. And if he does, I don't want you to move him. There he is. Right on time. He's coming. Coming for you. Okay, we'll see if he helps out.

He's really here to help. And I want you to just focus on the sense. of wetness on your face. What's wrong with you right now? And I'm not talking about thoughts. I'm not talking about in this moment. If this is all you knew of your entire life, what would you know about this person?

If you were this thing all for every day for the rest of your life, what would be wrong with you? I'm not talking about the past. I'm not talking about the future. I'm not talking about your worries. I'm not talking about you failing to support your family. I'm talking about this thing that you are right now.

What is this? Who are you? And what's wrong with it? Not focusing on feelings at all. Okay. What are you focusing on? I don't know. Like, I guess can I focus on feelings?

Because I just like, feel like, I don't know. Like, I guess I just feel kind of heartbroken in a way. Good. Okay. So, Casey, this is what you've got to do. Good job. There. No.

So you screwed it up again. Let's see if he comes back. It's coming for you. Okay. All right. So, yeah, that's actually a really interesting meditation technique. So, you know, a lot of people don't know this, but you know, like sometimes Indian people have a dot on their forehead. You haven't seen that before?

You know why they do that? Is it for the fly? I'm just kidding. Actually, kind of. Honestly, sort of. I just thought that's what you're going to say. Yep, yep. You're damn right.

It's what I'm going to say. So interestingly enough, it's to bring the attention of your mind to a physical sensation on your forehead. It's to focus the attention of your mind. It's basically putting an artificial fly on one spot in your forehead. Yeah. I shit you not. Meditation is so hard. It's very hard.

It's so hard. So the only thing that's hard about it is if you beat yourself, up for not doing it right because what you did was great so what i'm hearing from you is that when you meditate and this happens with people with trauma stuff is coming up and then what happens the reason you call meditation hard is because you think you should do something instead of let that stuff come up but just let it come up feel heartbroken for a little while and then let yourself not feel that way return to your breath return to tears you know grab a fly go stand in the sun i don't know where you live. I don't know how hot it is. Feel the sun on your face, put your feet in water,

drink something cold, take something cold and put it around the back of your neck, take something warm and put it around the back of your neck. When you meditate, Casey, it's going to take you a long time to meditate, right? But that's not wrong. You have to, you're just need to let this shit out and then eventually you'll come to a place. And I think you got there a little bit today, but what I'm getting from you is that like anytime you stop the defense mechanisms of your mind, the heartbreak arises. And what I want you to envision is like what happens when a bubble reaches the surface? I don't know what pops even shows. Absolutely.

So right now you have all of these bubbles within you and you just need to let them come to the surface and they'll pop and disappear. And then you'll be left with still water. Because right now your water is not still. it's roiling with lots and lots of bubbles and movement and agitation it's going to come up a little bit at a time a little bit at a time and a little bit at a time

and as much as you can let it come up but also for the love of God do not beat the shit out of yourself for not being able to meditate properly because you can't meditate properly and that's the way it's supposed to be for you right now

okay you'll meditate properly like you can't force what happens if I have a bubble underwater that's slowly coming up and I stick my hand in and try to get rid of it what happens to it it goes back down yeah right like if I'm going to create more bubbles if I stick my hand in like how do I get water to be still if I have waves in my bathtub and I go and I try to force the waves down with my hands what's going to happen it's just going to cause more waves absolutely so when you say you can't meditate right the is not to try harder.

It's to try less. Okay. Just let yourself sit, let that shit come up, and it's not endless. This is the loan, and this is the debt. You have an emotional debt

that you've been racking up for years, which was absolutely necessary, and it's got to come up a little bit at a time. Sorry, I know you were feeling good, and then we started meditating, now we're back to square one. Yeah, it's just God.

like, it's a odd. That's the right answer. That's the right answer. That's awareness. That's why I'm optimistic. Because sure, it hurts, but not forever. When you say, God, there's a lot. That's right.

Because so much during today, I don't know how to say this, Casey, but for so much of today, you have said the exact opposite. Yeah. You have not acknowledged how much there is. you have invalidated. And you say, how do I learn how to validate? I don't know how the fuck you did that, but you just did it. God, there's a lot.

That's absolutely right. I guess I'm just like, I'm like, afraid. I'm like, is it too much? Absolutely. It's just like whatever I talk about it. It's just like water works. Like, I just can't help it. Is it too much for a single conversation?

Absolutely. Cool. But you've been. taking loans for how old are you now? 28. You've been taking loans for at least 25 years and you haven't been making payments. And when that's the way that you live your life, it can feel like the debt is insurmountable. But the second you start making payments, it turns completely around.

And I think if you give yourself, honestly, it's going to take a couple of years for you to be like completely. like kind of in a good place. Like I'd say like give yourself two years. Yeah. But I think by the time you turn 30 you could be, you could feel like a completely different person. I tell you Casey, I've worked with people

who have had trauma on the order of magnitude that you have. And whether you call that a lot or whether you call that a little what I mean is that I've worked with people who've grown up in substance use, abusive households. And it is amazing if you just take care of yourself a little bit because so far you haven't taken care of yourself at all.

Yeah. And if you give yourself the chance, you'll be amazed at what you're capable of. Yeah. Sorry to leave you in shambles. It's okay. It's okay. I feel like it's just going to be kind of a reality for me for a while, right?

You're damn right, it is. But that's the important statement. Beautifully said, it's going to be the reality for me for a while. Yeah. Because it is. But I can tell you from the bottom of my heart, not forever. Not forever. Enough for today, I think.

Yeah. Sorry. I knew I was going to get really emotional. I don't consider it a problem. I think it's just enough for time. I don't blame you for saying it. I'm just saying, like, we got to parcel it out, right? Like, we're not going to wipe out your debt one day.

Right. Go do something fun. What are you going to do today? I'm probably going to go outside and do some yard work with my dogs. Perfect. Just try to relax a little. That is the absolute- I was thinking about streaming, but I don't think I'm going to now.

I think that that's a good idea. Do you want to know what I do after a stream like this? What? I go pull weeds. Really? I drive around for like 30 minutes. I've been getting into yard work, so. Yeah.

Seriously, what I do is I drive around for 30 minutes, and then I, in the evening around like 6 or 7 p.m., I go outside with my kids and like I literally like they run around and I pull weeds. It is the best thing you can possibly do. Be with your dogs. Yard work sounds, I'm telling you sounds like. So starting a garden is good because I've been working on starting a garden. Oh man, I love gardens.

Yeah. You know, the Zen people love gardens so much. They make gardens without even any plants. Yeah. It's fucking weird. They make gardens out of sand and shit like that. But it's great. Gardening's O.P.

needs to be nerfed. Yeah. Okay. I really appreciate coming on and thank you so much for your time. You're very welcome. You're ready for the next triggering statement? Because I know you haven't had enough. You're worth it, Casey.

Thank you. You're worth it. I really appreciate it. It really has been really helpful and I'm... I guess looking forward to some of your resources to maybe start getting into some therapy. Sure. So let me, you know, why don't you take today but shoot me a DM on Twitter, I mean, on Discord or something, and we can have, I can walk you through stuff specifically. And then in general, we need to do that for everyone else to. We'll do that. Maybe we'll do a DLC about how to find a manifest.

But in the meantime, you know, if you tell me what state you're in and, and we can talk about insurance and I can explain to you how all that shit works and we can try to get you connected, okay? Okay. All right. Take care. Thank you. You too.

Thanks for coming on. Strong work. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Intense. Good stuff, though. Good stuff.

Man, she's going to, I hope she does okay. See, that's like when you spawn in a bad zone, but you've got super high stats. that's Casey she's got like she's a beast in terms of her stats she just spawned in the wrong place hostile spawn

good stats that's what that looks like and and so like you know you give her something besides a club and like rags give her some you know give her a great sword give her some plate mail

kicks kick ass just got a bunch of these debuffs so to think about this for a second she's been like she's been living for 25 years with no healing. She just started with an HP pool and has been living through a game with like no healing and no support

and she's made it this far. Like her HP pool is ginormous. It's like her just raw stats are so high that she's just been able to like, it's like one of these games where like, you know, it reminds me that this like FF7 remake thing where you like don't level up. Right?

She's like one of these people that's like never leveled up. She's like, I'm going to play the life on hard hard mode with no gear. It's like playing Dark Souls without resting at a bonfire. It's like, we're just going to do this the hard way without taking care of ourselves at all, and we're just going to power the fuck through it. And it's like, yeah, that's pretty amazing that you were able to do that. And also, imagine what you did if you had this pile of XP and you actually leveled up from

like one to level 68 and refilled your health bar. And then you're going to really kick ass. it's really cool. I mean, her situation and cool, but I respect her, mad respect to Casey

coming on, talking about it. Yeah. So, on Friday, we have Michael Reeves, and we, and so thank you guys for coming.

It's been fun. And, yeah, Michael Reeves' pod. And then we're going to be raiding as I have been informed we're going to raid pooper noodle, which I'm not entirely sure what that means because it's not poop noodle. Pooper is like a person. So we'll raid

Pooper noodle.