HealthyGamerGG - Talking with OR3O

Episode Date: August 5, 2020

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So, yeah, that's really cool. I just, like, checked out your YouTube channel for the first time. It seems really dope. Thank you. So tell me a little bit. What do you want to talk about, or I understand you have some questions about bipolar disorder? Yeah, that. I have two main things I want to talk about.

One, about bipolar disorder. And, like, I had a few questions about that. I've done, I haven't been really educated on that stuff. So I want to know more about it. And the second topic is, actually something that I can't find on the internet. Okay. It's, it's, have you heard on child on child abuse?

Child on child abuse? Yes. No. It's when a child abuse is another child instead of an adult. Okay. So I had some questions about that topic as well. Sure. So fire away.

Okay, so I recently got diagnosed with bipolar disorder or actually I got diagnosed twice, one at the urgent care and one by my like psychiatrist that I normally go to. Okay. And I was curious if it's something that's genetic or if it's like caused by some incident or something. Because like I haven't been showing symptoms until like now. Okay. That's and do you mind if I ask the ballpark of your age? Oh, I'm, I'm 21. Okay. All right. Yeah, that's an excellent question. Man, Oreo, these are fantastic. I love that we're asking.

So here's how I think about mental illness. So I think about mental illness is an intersection between genetics and environment. So is there a genetic component to bipolar disorder? Absolutely. But does it mean that you're destined to get it? Or is it all genetics? Usually not.

So I'll give you just one example. So people who have parents who are skilled, schizophrenic may develop schizophrenia. So there's some amount of like possible inheritance of schizophrenia. I don't remember exactly what the number is. I'd ballpark around 30 or 40 percent. And then people who have a history of schizophrenia, a family history of schizophrenia who use marijuana, especially at a young age, are far more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia. Now, the interesting thing there is like what is the influence of marijuana? Does it cause the schizophrenia?

I don't think so. The best hypothesis that I believe in is that it unmasks what may have taken longer to occur, but it's unclear. But we do know that marijuana plus family history is worse than family history alone. And we also know that early onset of marijuana use probably leads to a greater risk of manifesting symptoms of schizophrenia. So how does that work? I mean, my sense is that we each have a genetic predisposition, and then based on certain environmental factors like stressors, that genetic predisposition can kind of like activate.

Or you're like, you're halfway. So in cancer, there's something called the two hit hypothesis, which, which hypothesizes that in order to get cancer, you need more than one kind of like genetic mutation in yourself. You need to have one mutation and then you need to have a second mutation. And those mutations together will cause cancer. So I think that most people may have some predisposition or a high risk to develop a mental illness. And then when some circumstances happen, so for bipolar disorder, for example, things like substance use are really just not sleeping well for a couple of weeks or even a few days, pulling a few all-nighters. can really result in the manifestation of bipolar disorder.

Does that answer your question or is it too confident? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that was really, that was really in depth. Yeah, that made sense. I remember talking to my doctor because I didn't want to take medication. Yep. And she said that I had to because, like, if I don't sleep, then that causes, like, my mania even more.

Yep. I didn't see that as a big thing because, like, all teenagers are all, like, young adults sleep late. I thought that was like a normal thing. It is a normal thing. So this is, it's a great point, right? So here's the thing, right? So this is what I mean about the intersection,

about an environmental factor and a genetic factor. So all teenagers have screwed up sleep schedules. The difference is that most teenagers don't have that genetic risk, which is why they can have the environmental influence and be completely fine. But when you combine that environmental influence with, the genetic risk, that's when you get an illness. So I'll give you just one last example. So let's think about alcohol, right? So alcohol has also gets inherited to a certain degree. So if you have parents that are alcoholics, you're more likely to be an alcoholic. And, you know, people who are 21

drink a lot. And not all of them become alcoholics. Why? So when you have an alcoholic, a strong history of alcoholism in your family and you start drinking a lot when you're 21, you're much more likely to become alcoholic than someone who doesn't have a family history of alcoholism. The other interesting thing that's also true is that if you have a strong family history of alcoholism and you don't drink it all, then do you become an alcoholic? What do you think? Wait, sorry, can you say that again? I kind of sell you up. So if you have a family history of alcoholism and you don't drink at all, do you become an alcoholic? No, you won't become an alcoholic.

alcoholic, yeah. Right? So when it comes to bipolar people who have a diagnosis of bipolar disorder, if you can control your sleep, then the disease for the most part may actually like kind of go away. Because there are certain risk factors that trigger the disease. And when you're diagnosed, does that usually mean for certain? Or is that like, because I've been diagnosed with so many different things and I'm not sure like what I have or if like if I even have bipolar or not but do you mind if I ask are you diagnosed bipolar one or bipolar two um did they tell you that my yeah they said probably one but I'm not even sure what the difference is between one two and cyclozymia I think that's all okay we'll talk about that okay so here's the first thing so I once had a one of my very wise mentors

once told me that if someone has three psychiatric diagnoses, they're all wrong. Okay. So what we do is psychiatrists sometimes is we tend to like label people. And then we don't really take label people. We don't take labels off. We tend to just slap people with more diagnoses. They're like, oh, you're bipolar and you have ADHD and you have anxiety. I don't think so.

And so that goes to the nature of psychiatric diagnosis, which is that it's kind of bad. So like we don't have a test, right? So if you think about like cancer or like COVID, we have tests that you can objectively verify whether this person has this illness or not. But I can't do a blood test. I can't do an x-ray. I can't do any of that stuff to tell you definitively that you have bipolar disorder. So psychiatric diagnosis is one of observation and guesswork. and so what we do generally speaking with in psychiatric diagnoses is that we have some criteria

and if people check those boxes they're more likely to have the illness but there are some people who will check the boxes and not have the illness like that's possible too because it's just checking boxes right it's like so for depression for example changes in sleep um so being sad changes in sleep feeling guilty having changes in your energy, being either psychomotorically agitated or depressed, which means like you kind of like you're like this or you're like fidgety, you know, changes in concentration, suicidal thinking. And the more of those you have, the more likely you are to be depressed. But you can be sad and suicidal and actually not have clinical depression, possible.

So it doesn't mean that the diagnoses are right. It's really an issue in medicine what we call clinical judgment as opposed to objective testing. And sometimes our judgment is wrong because, like, you know, we don't have perfect information. Because the information that we rely on is like what you tell us or what your family members tell us. And that could be biased, right? So not only do we have a list of checkboxes, but then like, you know, we don't have perfect information. So sometimes we're wrong. Do you feel like your psychiatrist understands you as a person?

Yes, I like my psychiatrist a lot. Then I would trust what they have to say. Yeah. You know, some people have- But they didn't misdiagnosed me with other things before. So like sometimes, well, it's also because I haven't been that honest sometimes because I wasn't very comfortable with- So that probably makes sense, but like.

I know this sounds bizarre, but the sign of a good psychiatrist is one who changes your diagnosis. That tells me that your psychiatrist is being thoughtful and is willing to accept that they were wrong about something. And they're actively interpreting new information and reformulating you as a person, which is actually good. Like, that makes me confident in your psychiatrist. Yeah, it took a while for that because, like, I've had a lot of experiences with other psychiatrists when I was like, because I've been getting looking for help since, or getting therapy and like and stuff since I was like 16. But I keep getting my case clothes and just being sent to the mental hospital and like they didn't diagnose me and they just give me medication and make me take it.

And then, yeah, it was just, it was just crazy. So like, I don't know if it, I did anything wrong or if it was a system that was wrong or if I said something wrong, but it's just, it was crazy. Why do you assume that something wrong happened? Maybe I said something that, or I over-exaggerated my situation, like, and it wasn't as bad as it was, maybe. But why do you assume that you over-exaggerated? Why do you assume, I mean, the system's not great. Yeah, like, sometimes I feel like I just say things because I want attention.

Okay. exaggerated just a little bit because I want someone to like pay attention to me because I'm lonely or something. Yep. So I think that's very insightful of you to realize right? Most people

go their entire life without ever realizing that shit. And they're like 60 and cause problems with their kids and grandkids and become estranged because they never recognize that they're parts of themselves that do things that may not

be healthy. So I still think it's great that you recognize that maybe you are doing that. And also, maybe you weren't exaggerating. Yeah, I can't tell because at the time, it doesn't feel like it is. But when I look back, it's like, oh, my God. I was so, like, dramatic. Yeah. So that sometimes happens with people who are bipolar.

Is the way that you think changes. Right? So, like, we have this instrument of mind with which we judge the world. And part of the problem, especially with mania, is that the instrument that we use to judge whether saying something is okay or doing something is okay changes. And looking back on it, it seems like kind of nuts to other people, but to us it feels completely normal. In fact, we feel very confident. Yeah. And that the rest of the world is really, really wrong.

Yeah, I feel like sometimes the rest of the world like doesn't understand and they don't like, I'm at a. whole new level or something. Yeah, that sounds like my bullet is for it. Yeah, because I don't, I don't know if you, you don't own or you don't like manage your Twitter, right? But I was actually spamming you guys on Twitter because I was just like, oh my God, like maybe if I keep messaging this person, like I'll have like an interview or something. So I kind of feel bad about that. I don't, I don't know most of, I don't even know how to use Twitter. Oh. But I, you know, I'm, I think, it's okay. Well, I apologize to whoever is managing. Yeah. They must have gotten a lot of notifications just like,

on their behalf, I forgive you. Thank you. And at the same time, I don't want to tell people that it's okay to hammer. Yeah, I don't. Because I don't, I don't want them to have to deal with that. Yeah, I don't want that to happen. So I don't, like, I kind of feel guilty that, that actually is why I have this interview with you. honestly honestly Oreo I don't know how any of this shit works I just people

people tell me to show up and then I don't know and then so I'm glad you're here though because I think this is these are excellent questions thank you so your question was you know are do people get psychiatric diagnosis wrong and I would say I certainly hope so

I think that we I certainly hope that most psychiatrists out there don't label someone with one thing and then just assume that they're right. And is it possible to have like other symptoms to other disorders that like while you're like manic? Because like I was strangely like really I thought I was I was like confident I had OCD. Sure. For some reason. Because like I had to do things a certain way and like I had to like say things like a certain amount of times and do things a certain amount of times in order for it. to be valid.

So that was really weird. Yeah. So I think that too is like so mania will uncover other things, which like your normal mind is able to manage. But when your mind becomes manic, like you just can't manage it the way like it sort of becomes like, you know, things. And yeah, so I really think about mania as like turning the dial up to 100% in all kinds of stuff. So it may turn up the dial into 100% in terms of like O. symptoms. It can also turn the dial up to 100% in terms of energy and creativity. So the interesting thing is that if you look at even Harvard College has a higher incidence

of bipolar disorder than the rest of the United States. And the reason is because people who are a little bit bipolar can get away with only sleeping two to four hours a night and have lots of energy to study. Like not a joke. No, that's like really really. relatable actually. How so? I kind of, now that I'm like evened out and like calm, I kind of miss being manic because I was so productive and like every idea that I had was like amazing and ideas kept flowing. And that's usually when my channel started growing as well as manic.

It's because I posted a lot of videos, a lot of content on like popular things. And I didn't have any doubts. Yeah. So I've worked with very successful. artists who have sometimes asked me, how can I use my bipolar disorder to create more? And they've come to me and they've said like, hey, I want to stop taking medications for a certain amount of time

and I want to create. And then can you put me back on them after a month? Because I'm not feeling my creative energy. Do you ever think about that? Yeah, that's why I actually wanted to stop taking my medications because it made me feel sleepy. But my doctor was like, no. Yeah. And how do you feel about that?

I think it makes sense because I, even though I felt really good and I was at the best state of mind in my, or that's what I thought. Like other people were having a hard time. Like my parents, like they were really worried about me because for some reason I had this strange obsession with America's Got Talent, comedy, and Howie Mandel. And I was like, I have to go to America's Got Talent audition for comedy specifically and meet Howie Mandel and touch his baldhead. Specifically, I don't know why. Yeah, that certainly does sound. I mean, so I understand you already have a diagnosis. And just to be clear, you know, so it's good that you're in treatment because otherwise it would terrify me because I don't diagnose people over the internet. But this really does sound to me like mania.

Like it sounds like that's an appropriate diagnosis. One question, so one reason that bipolar disorder gets misdiagnosed a lot is if people are using substances. So I would normally ask you do you use substances? But instead what I'm going to ask you is, does your psychiatrist know truthfully whether you use substances or not? We don't need to know, but they need to know. Okay. Another thing is because I was misdiagnosed with just depression, I was taking like, the wrong medication that actually made my mania even more like yeah so yeah unfortunately that

is very common so the problem is that we can't diagnose someone with bipolar so let's just talk about depression and bipolar for a second people who bipolar have periods of depression and periods of mania people who are depressed or may have major depression only have depression right does that make sense yeah so now like put yourself in the shoes of a psychiatrist let's say an 18 year old girl comes in and she is depressed. Does she have bipolar or does she have depression? I guess we don't know.

Exactly. And that's hard. Yeah. Right? So like we just... I feel bad for my psychiatrist. I don't know. I know it's their job, but it must be really difficult. It's a hard job. It sounds like. It is, but it's worth it. Every cent.

Like, I mean, it's worth it, dude. Like, because here's the thing. Like, Oreo, helping people like you is absolutely worth it. I don't want my job to be easy. I want you to get better. I want you to continue to create music. I want you to like live a happy and fulfilling life where you take that little bit of crazy deep inside you and turn it into music which touches people in a way that a completely same person cannot. So this is the other crazy thing is like why does bipolar disorder exist? Right. So like why does it happen? And I'm telling you that I think that some of the most beautiful things that I've seen in terms of artistic creation

happen from people who are on that bipolar spectrum in some way, shape, or form. It doesn't mean that they're actually manic, because I think when you're fully manic, your mind is so, like, extreme that, like, other people can't appreciate it. Yeah. But you're channeling, like, something really powerful, and when you can get that under control and, like, focus it on artistic creation,

I genuinely think it's more beautiful than what the average person can make, which is to know. I realize I said something that is hard to respond to. No, it's just, yeah, I don't know if I should take that as a compliment or, like, I don't know, yeah, I feel flattered. Okay. I mean, I think it's just the truth of your situation, right? It's authentically like, it doesn't mean, I mean, on one hand, you're ill, but I don't think it's all bad. I do think that way too.

Yeah. Like, I don't think it's something that people should want, but at the same time, if you have it, like, I guess appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think keep it under control. Because like, I mean, if you're truly manic, like, you're going to make music and it's going to be such a mess.

Yeah. Dude, I made a, I made a song that was called Happy. And then I just slammed my keyboard like three times. And that was the song. It's because I'm so happy you can't even comprehend. And they don't comprehend, right? So that's actually not good music, even though in the mind of someone who's manic, it feels like good music.

I thought everything was good. Yeah. So highly elevated mood is what mania usually entails. Like, everything's perfect. Yeah, I mean, and other questions? I know we're kind of bouncing around. I have some for you, but I want to make sure we get to yours. Oh, no, I'm pretty, I got through everything.

I wrote up a little doc just in case I get nervous and forget everything. Are you feeling nervous? At first, I'm like, at first I was like really excited and then all of a sudden I just got this surge of nervousness. You know the M&M song like, Palm Sweating, Knees Week, Mom's Spaghetti. Yeah, that's how I feel. Yeah, so that's just a sympathetic nervous response. That's adrenaline. Yeah, I feel like, so much energy.

Okay. So do you want to, should we just keep talking through it? Or do you want to like meditate for a second or what do you want to do? I actually like talking. Okay. I want to keep talking to it. So do you want to tell me about child on child abuse then? Yeah.

Recently, or it's gotten a lot better, but I've been having a lot of flashbacks about my childhood. And I don't know. I just want to talk more and learn more about this because I can't find a lot of resources. Okay. And I feel like it's more common than it is, like, than I think it is. Okay. Yeah. And what are we talking about?

Help me understand what happened to you. Oh, yeah. So basically, when I was like nine or eight, eight or nine, I moved to Georgia and I, like, lost all my friends because I moved to a different state. And I met this girl who said she'd be my friend, but only if I do certain things. things with her. And it was, it was like a relationship

that I didn't really want. I guess. And she made me, like, there were times where I was consensual, but at the same time, it's like, aren't kids, like, not able to give consent? Yeah, so when you say

wanted to do things, do you mean, like, intimate things? Yeah, like, really inappropriate things. things like normal kids don't do. Okay. And you were eight or nine, and how old was the other girl? She was one year older. Okay. So that's kind of fucked up.

Oh. I mean that happened to you. I've only told my close friends and my family, and they told me that it was pretty normal, and I didn't feel that way about it. They said a lot of kids, like, play doctor and stuff. But it didn't feel, it felt like more than that. Okay. So now I'm a little bit confused.

because what you were describing to me and because I when I said that's kind of fucked up I was expecting you to say yeah but you seemed confused by my answer. Yeah because no one's really told me that or maybe a few of my friends

but everyone else is like yeah that same stuff happened to me and they kind of just do you tell them what actually happened to you? Yeah. In detail? Actually not in detail because it's kind of embarrassing

for me for some reason. But I just say like, yeah, they may be uncomfortable. So I'm guessing what they think is normal is not what actually happened to you, but they're filling in. So when you speak, Oreo, you're vague. Oh, sorry. No, no, no. It's not, I'm not asking you to apologize.

I'm pointing it out to you. Oh, okay, okay. So like, for example, you said there was a nine-year-old girl and she said she would be my friend, but only if I do certain things. and I don't know if that means so my wife used to play a game with her sister called Princess and my wife was the older sister so she would be the princess

and then her younger sister would be the servant so she would just like run around and like get her candy and like that was the game that they played right so so I don't know and I don't think I mean I'm not trying to say that that was anything inappropriate I think it's just you know older sister being an older sister but like when you say that she said you know you can't be my friend unless you do certain things.

Like, I don't know if that means wear a certain piece of clothing or carry around her book bag or do her homework for her or something that's like. It was like sexual activity. Yeah. So that's really bizarre for eight and nine-year-olds to engage in. So generally speaking, if you take an average nine-year-old off the street, they don't really engage in too much sexual activity. Usually engaging in sexual activity is a nine-year-old or a 10-year-old.

is like the, you know, that's a red flag is a treater for sexual abuse. Because how does a nine-year-old learn how to be sexual? Through other people, I guess? Absolutely. Right, that's where our kids learn. Like, so, you know, my kids want to be Princess Queen Elsa because they watch Frozen all the time.

And that's what they run around and that's what they pretend to be. And so what kids tend to pretend to be is like, what they see. So I had my kid recently put her sheepie in timeout. And where did she learn to put her stuffed animals in timeout? It's because she gets put in timeout when she's been in.

So it sounds to me like this person, you know, that's a red flag in my mind that this person themselves was abused. Yeah, I think so too. But going back to what we were talking about. So I think when people say they, you know, it's normal for kids. to play doctor it's also i mean i agree it's normal for kids to play doctor but it sounds like

what happened between you and this girl was more than playing doctor and if you're being vague then what they're going to assume is their experience as a kid so do you know like what words you use to describe this when you're explaining it to other people probably the same thing i I'm not, I don't remember exactly, but the same way. I was pretty big, yeah. Yeah, right? So it's like, I don't know what that means. Yeah.

I mean, so. For my, oh, sorry. I was just going to say, like, so in our case, we have an advantage because at the beginning of the conversation, you said, I tried to Google child on child abuse and I didn't see anything. So that sets a tone for all of the vague stuff you say afterward, right? Does that make sense? So we sort of assume that things something here is not kosher. But unless you say that to the other people, they're going to interpret it like in a non-threatening kind of way.

Do you think? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. No, it's just I've told my parents specifically and they thought it was, my mom didn't think it was normal, but my dad was like, oh, that's just what kids do, you know? And I was just like, really? And yeah, I think he, it's also because she's a really close, like, her dad is a close friend of my dad's.

and he didn't want anything to happen because i was like angry to the point where i actually was thinking about taking this to court because i felt like i felt like i lost something like in my childhood like my innocence you know yeah how do you feel right now saying that um just a little angry but at the same time i i i feel like I shouldn't feel angry because I don't know. I want to blame that other person, but like I can't because she probably went through something too. And she didn't know what she was doing what's wrong. Like she didn't know that what she was doing was probably wrong. Yeah. That doesn't mean you can't blame her. Right. So like this is a weird thing. Okay. Or you? But like let's say that, so I've worked with,

you know, patients who have had suffered. from abuse by their parents. And they also, as part of that healing process, they learn about their parents and sometimes it involves family therapy. And they learned that, you know, part of the reason why their parents were abusive was because they in turn were abused. And interestingly enough, usually, like, the abuse actually gets better with each generation. Like, their parents had it way worse than they treated their kid.

and so it's it's an interesting kind of tightrope to walk to say I understand that you had some things in your past which like pushed you in a certain direction and also like you could have not done that and you didn't but I feel like she didn't understand like what it meant in a way sure I don't think she did but that doesn't mean that you can't be angry at her Oh. Right?

So like, let me just say, like, let's say that two kids are playing and then they like, like, they're going to play mermaids. And then they decided to go into a pool of water and then like, you know, like, or they fight or let's say they fight. And then, you know, they don't, they don't recognize that they're fighting because they're playing teenage mutant ninja turtles. So they like grab two sticks and they start hitting each other and one of them smacks the other one across the face. Because that's what they do in teenage, they're like playing. martial arts. And even though they didn't intend to hurt, that doesn't change the fact that the person who got smacked across the face with a stick is genuinely hurt. And if they lose a tooth, then like that hurt stays with them, even if the child didn't know what happened. And what I'm

sensing from you is that like you lost something. And even if she didn't mean it, it doesn't mean that you didn't lose something. And it feels okay to be to be angry that you, you lost something that you shouldn't have, feels unfair, unjust. You may also be angry with your parents. Are you? Yeah. Not my mom, but more my dad, because my mom was really understanding. And she actually apologized because she said she didn't,

she thought there was nothing that could possibly go wrong with two kids, you know? And yeah, I'm just. more angry at my dad, I guess. Yeah. What are you angry at him for? For not understanding. Yeah. And to defend someone that hurt me. Yeah. Like, I feel like he should take my side, like, no matter what, because I'm his daughter.

But another thing is, like, I keep, like, having, like, conflicting, conflicting thoughts, because, like, my dad's been through a lot. My dad's actually handicapped. And he's, um, he's been in the hospital for 19 years. So I could understand why he's like, really he, like, I don't know, I feel like my problems are like less in a sense. So maybe that's why he can understand. I don't know. Can I think for a second? Yeah. It takes a lot of courage to say this stuff. Do you feel courageous? Not really. I just feel like I'm stating what happened. Like when I think of courageous, I think of like superheroes saving like a cat from like getting run over by a truck. I can understand that. And when I think about some of the most courageous people in the

history of humanity, some of them just said what happened. Right? Yeah. So it's interesting. Yeah, that's true. It's interesting how sometimes we can't see ourselves the way that we deserve to be seen. Maybe you should reevaluate your diagnosis of yourself and how awesome you are. So, Oria, we have a couple of different directions to go. Mm-hmm.

Since you are thankfully in treatment, do you talk to your psychiatrist about this stuff, by the way? Not my psychiatrist, but I'm thinking of telling my therapist because I try to talk to my psychiatrist and she's like, you should talk to this with your therapist. Okay. So it sounds like your psychiatrist mostly manages your medication? Yeah. Okay. So I would highly recommend that. So we have a couple of options. So what I'd like to do is actually teach you something that's a little bit more eastern, because I'm noticing that your mind is doing a couple of things. And I'd like to teach you maybe something that's not so much talking about

this particular thing, but you seem conflicted to me about the way that you feel. What do you think? Yeah, I can see that. Very conflicted. Do you feel conflicted? Mm-hmm. So what I'd like to help you do is, maybe get to some sense of peace over that conflict. And this has really nothing to do with what happened to you in a sense. It all has to do with how does a human being who feels conflicted about something come to peace with their inner conflict? Or what we can do is talk more about the actual child on child abuse and your feelings

and whether they're justified and explore those. but I think a therapist can do that. What do you think? I mean, do you want to talk? I actually do have one more thing I want to mention because I had another incident when I was around 12 or 13 when I was at Korea by another family member. And that also felt similar in a sense because they were my family member and I didn't. I couldn't, it's just conflicting because I couldn't tell if they were due, like they had ill intent and they were doing something wrong or if they were genuinely like just trying to help me. I guess. Oh, sorry, I was vague again.

See, good. You noticed. Yeah. Basically what happened was while I was sleeping. This was next to my mom and my brother. We all shared one bed because there was only one room. My uncle came in. And he started to massage my leg. Everyone else was sleeping. He started massaging my leg. And I remembered, like, my parents telling me he does this thing where he, like, massages people because he's really good at it or something. But then it made me really uncomfortable because he did it at night and without telling me. And then he slowly, like, went up and started touching me in places where, like, made me feel really uncomfortable.

Yeah, that doesn't happen. kosher to me. Yeah. But again, my dad comes in place here because my dad was like, oh, no, he's just massaging you. Like, that's like a thing he does because he's really good at it or something.

And I was just like, but, I mean, it didn't. Is he ever massage your dad's dick? No, I don't think so. But my mom told me she had a similar experience with me, like with, not with me, but like, that would, what happened to me.

The guy sounds like he's holding back and should be giving the same service to his mail clients too. I mean, I don't mean to be an asshole, but like that doesn't sound like a massage to me. Right? So I think that's where once again, maybe, so I'm noticing a couple of disturbing patterns.

One is, so one is it could be vague, right? So it could be the vagueness and because like maybe he's massaged your dad's upper thigh but never like crossed the barrier from thigh to like scrotum like that's maybe right and it sounds like he really did touch you in places that were inappropriate and I think generally speaking I would trust your instinct about that and it also sounds like it happened to your mom and you know so like I would trust your instinct about that like I forget the exact statistics but you know most people who molest children or people who are like close to them in some way.

It's not like strangers off the street. It's like family members and shit. And that's really sad. And then the other thing that I'm noticing is that like, you know, I'm curious, Orio, how did you feel when your dad said he does that to everyone? I cried. Like really. Yeah, it's just really upsetting because I don't think he,

maybe it's because I was vague, but I don't think he understood like, how uncomfortable it made me feel and how like the boundaries he crossed. And what made it hard for you to tell your dad? I think not only because he's a dude, because that's also a bit uncomfortable, but I feel like he's been through so much worse. And yeah, I don't know. I just keep comparing.

Like I don't want to make it a competition, but like... That's what we're going to get to. Yeah. So we'll get to, that's sort of the Eastern thing that I want to. I feel guilty because like everything else in my life is like fine. Like I have a great family. I have a lot of friends and I have a great job. But it's just little things I feel like.

What do you feel guilty for? Guilty for not being happy sometimes. When I have like so much privilege I feel like. I don't know. A lot of people tell me because I'm Asian American, I have a lot of privilege. Even though, like, I'm, like, the only minority that has, like, privilege because, like, my family's well off and no one's really racist against Asians or something. I don't know. Like, like, I don't know.

It's just, I heard a lot of things. Yeah, so I, how do you feel when they say that? I think it's so wrong. What's wrong about it? Because it doesn't matter if you're like whatever, what the color of your skin is or what race you are. I think everyone has like their own story to tell and their own issues. But every time that gets like put down, I kind of lose hope.

Yeah. And I can understand why. It's almost like, I mean, it's weird because there's an interesting parallel there between your dad and what people tell you, which is that you're not allowed. to feel the way that you do. You're wrong for you. You're mistaken.

That your feelings of suffering and hurt are incorrect. You were a bad Korean girl for feeling ungrateful. Right? I think Indian people are pretty similar there. What are you complaining about? Just...

I don't know. I don't think I'm complaining. It's just... things that upset me in the past. I mean, I was, I was being facetious. I was playing a character. Oh, oh, okay. I think you have every right to complain.

I mean, I think, so like this is the challenge, right, with privilege, which maybe is a conversation for a different day. But so as someone who's a clinician, it's hard for me to, I mean, we'll talk about. So I think this all actually goes back to the central concept, which I want to teach you about. So hold on. Comparison. Okay. But I think it's like hard because, like, you know, you look at things like white male privilege.

And there's certainly some data to support that, right? Like, so if you're like a white person versus a black person, you get pulled over by a police officer. The way that the police officer, like your odds do get influenced by your race. So that's true. And at the same time, 68 to 69% of people who kill themselves in this country are white men. So it's like, where's the privilege? there. So, like, people assume, and we'll get to this. So in your case, like, I think you do have advantages and you do have a lot to be grateful for. That does not, somewhere along the way,

like, privilege became, like, about one axis. And that just doesn't make sense to me. It's like, sure, you have a lot of privilege, and I think you should be grateful for that. I certainly have a hell of a lot of privilege, and I'm grateful for that. And at the same time, that doesn't invalidate the fact that it sounds like you were sexually molested by two people, have broken. bipolar disorder and like your family didn't take it seriously. Like the fact that you're fucking Korean doesn't change that horrible truth that you have to deal with. And in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it makes up for it either. You know, like, do you have particular advantages because you're Korean?

Like, absolutely sure. Should you be grateful for those? Absolutely sure. Should you help other people who don't have those kinds of advantages? Absolutely sure. but it doesn't mean that you don't get to suffer too. Your privilege does not give other people the license to invalidate who you are as a person, which is, I think, one of the saddest things that's happened to you.

Like the really crushing thing, if I can just go there for a second, what happened to you is bad, but what really, I think, is the loss of innocence is not what happened to you. It's the way that your dad responded. Right? Because like what a dad is supposed to do in that situation is protect his little girl. And that didn't happen. And that's what hurts. Like that's what hurts me.

It's like I know shit happens. But like when someone who's supposed to take care of you doesn't take care of you and in fact protects your abuser, that's what feels bad to me. And I would hate myself for the rest of my life if I ever did that to one of my daughters. I think it's the shittiest thing you can possibly do. Anyway, I'm going to need a moment because now I'm emotional. Oh, man, I didn't think I'd get emotional because it's usually hard to crack me.

I mean, it's easy to crack me. Thoughts? Questions? No, everything you said made sense. It's just all coming together. Like, I'm really glad I brought this topic up. I was, like, debating. Because I guess I was kind of afraid

I'd hear the same thing. other people told me, or like what my dad told me, but I'm relieved. What are you relieved? What's relieving to hear? That what I went through wasn't good, but like, yeah, it wasn't good at all. And I don't know, just that just to hear someone that can understand, like, the pain that I went through. It's just really, really, really, refreshing. Yeah, I'm happy you feel that way. And it's interesting that you feel like I understand your pain because I really don't.

I don't know. It's just, I feel. Yeah. I mean, because, but I think that's actually the amazing thing, right? Is that, like, human beings can connect and support each other without, you know, without truly understanding. And I think it's really, really sad what happened to you. and I don't think it's fair. And I do think you lost something.

I do, however, think that you're going to be okay. And I do think... I think it's going to be okay, too. Yeah. I do think that just because you lost something, I gave this five-minute rant before we started talking about how instead of, you know, avoiding taking damage, what you need to learn how to do is heal.

Because then you can take damage. And this is a great example, right? So I think Oreo, everything that I see tells me that you're an intelligent, capable, caring, and talented young woman who has a lot to give to the world. And most of it is positive. And I think I'm in your corner. Yeah, that's another one of those things that I don't know how you're supposed to respond to. Yeah. Thank you. Okay, so let's talk about, you have other thoughts, questions? Can I teach you something?

Yeah, teach me something. Okay, so I want to teach you something called advaite. So this is a Sanskrit word that means non-dual. So if we look at human beings and why they have conflict, right? So like, let's take the conflict that you have over your dad, where you want to blame him for something. Because let's be fair, he fucked up. And then what you, but you also want to do is like kind of acknowledge that

it's not entirely his fault, right? So there's a part of you that's like, damn it, dad, you know, you did something really bad to me. And there's another part of you that's like he's been in a hospital for 19 years. You know, he suffers a lot to, it's sort of like not fair to blame him. There's like to blame him and there's like the let's feel sorry for him and it's not his fault. Right. And we can see that with that other girl that you were talking about as well where it's like there's a part of you that's like, I want to blame her because she hurt me. And also, like, she was only a young girl, too. She didn't know what she was doing.

And that's the conflict. So sometimes in life, we have a part of us that, you know, has black and a part of us that has white. So you can see this kind of concept in the yin-yang. And so what Advait means is that the way to get to peace is to be non-dual. So to not separate two things and choose one over the other. Because generally speaking, as human beings, what we try to do is we try to, like, we think about the resolution of conflict as one winning. Right?

And like you think through it and you're like, okay, I'm not going to blame him at the end of the day. And then my mind will it be at peace if I stop blaming my dad. Or it'll also be at peace if you do blame him. And then it's like conflict complete. You with me? There's like a battle and one needs to win. So the concept of advaite is actually that like

neither one needs to win. And what you need to learn is how to sit with both conflicting truths at the same time. So, and it's kind of weird, but like, for you to say that my dad suffers a lot and, and maybe he deserves some amount of forgiveness or leeway, and instead of using but, you use and. So we say like, oh, like, what he did was really bad, but he suffers a lot too. And so what but does, what the word but does is it invalidates the first. part of the statement. Like, I think you're a really wonderful person, but, you know,

and then it's like it doesn't matter what you said first, right? And so what I, I'd like to try to teach you how to start to do today is to replace the word but in your mind with and, that he's suffered a lot and at the same time, he really should have done something differently. that, and this is kind of what I was saying about, you know, the kids who were fighting, that, like, what that girl did to you hurt you a lot. And at the same time, if you can sit with that, that that wasn't fair to you, and at the same reason, she didn't know what she was doing, which doesn't really absolve, like, it's sort of like, we're not going to blame her, but we still allow ourselves to feel hurt at the same time. You know, because maybe on some level,

she did know what she was doing. Right? Like it sounded like she was sociopathic. And she understood that you were lonely. And she used that loneliness against you in a malevolent way. And I don't know where we got off

thinking that children aren't malevolent because children are some of the biggest assholes on the planet. Like seriously. I'm not kidding. It's not a joke. It's like there are some of the most spiteful and hurtful people out there.

I know it sounds funny. I laugh too. Yeah. But I mean, children can be very cruel. Like, I remember when I was growing up, some of the people in my school, like, we had a handicapped teacher who was in a wheelchair. And like a group of 10-year-old kids, like, they were fucking relentless.

And it's like one of the saddest things to see, like, how cruel children can be. And sometimes kids are good and sometimes kids are bad. And do we give them excuses? Sure. But so I think the goal here is to like think about Advait, which is like how can you sit with both of these truths at the same time? That something did happen to you that was bad and that people hurt you and that people who should have protected you didn't protect you. And that pain is there. Like it's done.

And at the same time, how can you also forget? And how can you continue to love your dad? It sounds to me like you love your dad. right and so how can you sit with the feeling of like he wasn't there for me and love him at the same time because those two things appear to conflict and what i'm what i'm sensing you in you is that your love is trying to overcome your anger with him and there's a war am i pissed at dad or do i love dad does that make sense and who do you think is winning the war right now love or love anger.

For me, love, because my dad's been there for me through, like, really tough times, too. Like, he makes mistakes as well, so, yeah. So that's what I sense in you. And at the same time, for you to really be at peace. So we can understand that if love wins, like, that's good, right? Love triumphing over anger is good, but I actually don't think it's the best. I think what's the best is to have love in your heart and to have anger and to acknowledge that like,

I do deserve to feel this way and I can love my dad and he can fuck up just because I love him doesn't mean that he can't fuck up and when you say it like that it's like duh but that's not how we feel right? Because then when you feel angry at your dad how do you feel about feeling angry? What do you tell yourself? You scream?

Okay. So what do you tell yourself when you feel angry with him? It's kind of a read my mind question, but I'm digging for a particular answer, which I'm going to see if I can phrase the questions properly. But like when you feel angry at your dad, later on, how do you feel about being angry with him? I don't know why I feel like this is a trick question. Yeah, yeah, it's weird. I'm asking it in a bad way. So that's my fault. So I would guess that you feel guilty for feeling angry with him. Yeah. Right? It's like weird.

And like what is that guilt? Like what kind of thoughts do you have when you get? Like I should have known better. Like he's been through a lot. And yeah. Right. And so what are you doing there? Like I know that's kind of a weird question too.

But what are you doing to the angry part of you? I'm invalidating it? Absolutely. Right? So you're telling, and you're in a bizarre way, that's exactly what your dad did. Right? He was like, oh, it's not that big of a deal. You shouldn't feel that way.

That's the wrong way to feel Oreo. Does that make sense? And so I think what you've got to do is learn how to sit with all of those things all at the same time. And the way to not feel guilty is to actually like be able to be angry with him. And is there any part of you tiny, tiny, tiny far? of you that hates your dad? Yeah. Right? So that deserves to be there too. What do you hate him for?

For just brushing off my problems. Yeah. And do you think that's a reasonable way to feel? Do you love your dad? How do you love and hate him at the same time? Rather than hate, I guess it's okay to be angry and Love my dad. Can you feel those at the same time? And so do you feel like, yeah.

So I think the interesting thing is that the more you do that, I suspect the less guilty you'll start to feel. And if we really think about the guilt, the guilt is I think what causes the most conflict. Does that make sense? Like, I think it's the guilt that that's you fighting against yourself. Because you have the anger and the guilt's like, no, Oreo. Wrong.

don't feel that way. And that's the conflict. So if we want you to be at peace, we have to let you feel the love with one hand and let you feel the anger with the other. What do you, does that, do you know how to do that? Can you imagine how to do that? I guess when I'm angry, just be angry,

but when I feel better, feel better. Yeah. It's interesting, Gordia. Some of your answers are vague, and the ones that aren't are simply beautiful. Because they capture the essence of it. It's like a Zen master kind of thing. You know, because the Zen masters are like, when you are angry, be angry.

And when you are done, be done. It's like Zen masters speak. It's really like simple kind of shit. That's like super profound. Both. Yeah, quotes. And I think so, right? So let yourself feel what you feel and acknowledge that you don't have to have one win over the other, that you can have both.

That can, you can say like, oh, I'm a good person. and I'm a bad person. And even when it comes to something like bipolar disorder, like it sucks to have bipolar disorder, and it's part of what makes me who I am. And some of that energy is going to help me create or has helped me create. And even if you're not actively manic or actively depressed,

you're still going to be creating. That bipolar is still down there underneath the surface and it's fueling you a little bit. And I think it's just about finding that balance. All right, I feel like I've been talking at you for a while. What do you think? I learned a lot. Good. I'm glad.

Do you have, that was kind of my spiel. How do you feel about, you know, today's conversation? It was really nice. Like, I was, I actually had a nightmare about how this conversation would go. I had a dream where you were like at my house and we were having like, we were talking and then you made me throw away everything that I liked. You were just like, you like this, throw it away. It's a problem.

And you like throw it. You did it across the window and then the window would break and then everything else would break. And I'm just like, no. That's scary, man. For some reason I had this fear that you would like, I think I was nervous because I thought you would jump out of the screen and like grab my Nintendo DS and mute it out the window. Yeah, that sounds really scary. You know, it's interesting because, you know, being a streamer, I understand that sometimes

streamers find their ways into people's dreams, but this is not what I expect. The representation of Dr. Kay in dreams is someone who throws away things. What I expect is that, you know, when Dr. Kay finds his way into a young woman's dreams, that that means something else. But, yeah, I mean, I'm glad that it's. sounds like I, that's not what we're doing here today. So, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, good. I'm glad that I didn't make you throw out your Nintendo DS.

Yes, I'm very glad to. What do you play on DS, by the way? Pokemon and Krono trigger. Really? Wow. Chrono Trigger is amazing. Oh, I just, I played it for the first time. So, like, I'm, like, halfway finished. So it's really good.

I love it so much. Yeah. It's like one of these boomer games that I'm happy that the younger generation is playing Prono Cheddar because it's one of the greatest games that's ever been made. It's very revolutionary in a lot of ways. I won't say how because you're going to play through. Yeah, don't spoil. Yeah, no spoiler, you know.

Do you have a switch? Yes. I have a switch light. What's the difference between the switch? light and the switch? The switch, you could actually, like, connect it to the TV and take the controllers out, but the switchlight is, like, a console.

It's like... Oh, it's like a handheld. A DS, but without... Yeah, it's a handheld. Okay, so you can't take the things out. Yeah, and you can't plug it to the TV either. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah.

Cool. All right, so we... Anything else? I mean, it feels to me like we're kind of done. Yeah. I think we talked about... everything I wanted to talk about. Yeah, are you okay with the amount that we got into it?

Like, do you feel like you want to, okay, felt okay to me too. Yeah, did you have any other questions? You mentioned cyclothymia earlier. Do you understand like bipolar 1, bipolar 2 and cyclothymia? Oh, yeah. I don't think you got through that yet. So we'll do that very quickly. So bipolar disorder has two variants.

and one is like depression with something called hypomania and the other one is depression with full mania. So hypomania is like this kind of like middle level of elevated energy. So people sleep a little bit less. They tend to be super productive. This is the thing that all the kids at Harvard College don't want to get rid of because it actually is like helps them perform. So they can study for 12 hours a day, sleep four hours a night.

They feel generally pretty good. The problem is that most periods of mania and hypomania have this kind of like crash afterward, which feels like depression. True mania is when, you know, generally speaking, I think about like periods of time without going really with very little to no sleep, very high energy level, very high positive mood, and a mind that is super, super active and like is not operating with the same set of rules that normal. lines operate with. So, you know, people will think that they like, like, they'll, like, really believe that they've come up with the cure for cancer or solve the problem for, like, you know, endless energy and figured out how to harness 100% of the energy from the sun and, like, these other

kinds of, like, ideas that seem quite extreme. And maniac especially can be quite dangerous because sometimes people can actually become, like, psychotic. And by psychotic, they can start to have. have very distorted perceptions of reality. Like sometimes they'll start to think that they're like the incarnation of Jesus or things like that. And so that's bipolar one and bipolar two.

Both of them have depression. And then one has like mania and then one has mania light. And by which one has? Bipolar one is true mania. Bipolar two is mania light. There is some confusion in terms of diagnosis. So the interesting thing about bipolar disorder is that. most people have their first manic episode, like before the age of 23. The reason I ask you your

age is because, you know, when I have a 17-year-old who I diagnose with depression, in the back of my mind, there's a clock that's ticking. And it's that if they're going to become manic, it'll happen in the next couple of years. And so I tend to look out for it. But I'm not going to put people on bipolar medication until I know they're bipolar. You know, just, a couple. And so cyclothymia is sort of a low level of both memory serves. I'm a bit rusty on that because I don't work with a whole lot of people at cyclothymia. And the last thing is, you know, when it comes to medication with bipolar disorder, you know, I think that it can be very helpful, but I also don't think it's like a lifelong sentence. So this, I disagree with many of my

colleagues. So I've had other people, I've had patients who have bipolar disorder, who I've taken off of all medication and they're doing fine. I would not recommend that for you. So I would trust your psychiatrist. But I think those people, your brain is still developing. And like you said, teenagers have messed up sleep schedules. So in your case, sleep is actually like a risk factor for your mental illness. So if you don't sleep well, you can literally become manic or depressed.

So in the cases of people who don't need medication, usually it's full adults whose brains have developed. And then also like being very, very careful about, so for example, I worked with one person who was a physician. And they would travel internationally to present their research. And every time they traveled internationally and if they dealt with jet lag, we would put them on medication before they traveled. They would go to the conference, have the medication on board, speak at the conference, be jet lagged, come back, and then taper off of the medication. Right. So the real risk factor is like messed up sleep. So I do think that you can sort of manage it at some point, but like trust your doctor. And I think in your case specifically,

especially for students, I'm very hesitant if they need medication, I keep them on it. Because you're at a stage of your life where you can't afford to like go manic and fuck up your life. And people can really fuck up their lives, like in bad ways. but but you know I do think that it's possible to do pretty well with low levels of medication or even no medication in some cases it just depends on the person but it sounds to me like you have a very good psychiatrist and it sounds like you trust them and I would really trust them because the hard thing is that you don't remember what you're like when you're manic yeah whereas the people who see you are like you really can't be doing that

It seems less bad to you than when you sit with a truly manic person, it's like they can't do anything. And what I see in you, Oreo, is someone who has a budding or successful music career. And what you need more than anything else is stability of growth. Because if you go AWOL and disappear for like six months, like, I don't know what's going to happen to your career. But generally speaking, you know, stable production is the most important thing for you right now. So I'd stick with the men's if that's what your psychiatrist tells you to do. Okay. How do you feel about meditation?

I think it's pretty cool. I'd be down to try it. What are we going to teach you this question? I've done like breathing meditation before. Do you want to do something else? Sure. What do you want to change about your life? In what way do you want to grow?

Um, I want to expand from music and like, make more things, I guess, create more, like different things. Like, I eventually want to make a game. So I want to learn things that I'm not comfortable with, like programming. Okay. Do you still feel like you have a lot of energy in you? Oh, I feel pretty normal. Okay.

So I'm going to teach you something I haven't taught on in a while, but I think it's going to be a good practice for you. It's actually a cleansing practice. and I think it's going to help you manage hyperactivity and calmness. It's also a practice that works really well for anxiety. So I'm going to teach you a practice called Bellows breathing. It's another breathing practice. Let me just double check with myself. Yeah, so I'm going to tack on something at the end.

Okay. So we're going to sort of sit with this idea of Advite towards the end of our practice. Okay. But what I want to help you do is teach you a technique. Oh, one second. Hello? No, dude. You can't teach a kundaliki.

That's bad for people. Yeah. Nope. Okay. Nope. Someone tried to give me a suggestion as to what to teach you, but I think that that is dangerous for people who have bipolar disorder. At least yet, not yet.

You need to be purified before you. you do this. Okay. So, so I think this will be good. So what I want you to sit up straight. And do you know how to abdominally breathe? Do you know how to do belly breathing? Mm-hmm.

It's like for singing, breathing through your diaphragm. Yep, very good. So like when you breathe in, your stomach goes out. And when you breathe out, your stomach goes in. Does that make sense? So let's just try that. So I want you to just do three. belly breaths. So breathe your time right. So breathe in and then out through your nose. Good.

So for people who are watching when you breathe in, your stomach should expand. So make your belly big. And when you breathe out, pull your navel towards your spine. So suck in your navel and pull it all the way towards your spine and breathe out. Very good. So now what I'm going to teach you, Oreo, is forceful exhalations with passive inhalation. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to do like nine breaths where what I'm going to focus on is like a sharp exhalation and as quickly as I can another sharp exhalation. There's going to be a very small inhalation in between. But I'll demonstrate, okay? Okay.

Could you tell what I was doing? Inhaling, like really quickly? Exhaling really quickly. Oh, exhaling? Yeah. So it's like a, you're like pushing all the air out. Yeah. So push all the air up fast.

good now try to try to do nine breaths in a row as large and as forceful as you can do so breathe in so take one bit deep breath

and then go boom boom boom boom boom boom boom okay go ahead let's see you okay good so now so sit up straight and now we're going to do 15 okay so we're going to close our eyes

and we're going to do 15 hard exhalations and you'll kind of feel that recoil of the inhalation afterward and try to push it out again. Okay. Okay. So deep breath in and 15 breaths. Okay, good. So now we're going to do the next phase.

We're going to do 15 more breaths. And after you finish the 15, I want you to just notice like how chill you feel. So you're going to take one really long, super slow breath and just sit in that space. So there's going to be the frenzied breathing. followed by like the post calm. Okay. So after I exhale, then I breathe in again and then just hold it in. So 15 sharp, no, no, 15 sharp exhalations and then just stop and do whatever your breath naturally wants to do.

Oh, okay. And just chill in the space of mind that you create through those 15 exhalations. And so we're going to be in kind of silent meditation afterward for like a minute. Okay. Okay. So eyes closed, sit up straight, and begin. 15 breaths, go. Now I want you to feel your heartbeat.

Eyes closed. Or listen to it. With headphones, you may be able to hear it. Can you feel it or hear it? I feel it. Okay. So I want you to notice that the feeling has two thumps. You feel both of the thumps?

Okay. So now we're going to do the third phase of the practice so you can open your eyes. So what I'm going to do is have you do 30 breaths, 30 exhalations, followed by a period of silent meditation. And I want you to pay attention to the feel of your heartbeat. And what I'm going to do after maybe about 30 seconds of silent meditation is I want you to keep your eyes closed. And then I'm going to guide you in some ways and just listen to what I say. Maybe it'll make sense. Maybe it won't.

No big deal. Okay. And the total practice will last about two or three minutes of silent meditation after you do the 30 breaths. So the whole thing will take maybe about five minutes. You good? Any questions? Okay.

Sit up straight. Take a deep breath in and begin, 30 breaths. Now I want you to think a little bit about your thought. And find within yourself all of the love, all of the affection. all of the caring, all of the compassion. And then at the same time, find the anger, the hatred, the sense of loss of innocence. And just like the beating of your heart, I want you to feel both of those things together. There's the bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump.

And that you can have both of those within you, and that's an actually. how it's supposed to be. You can love him and be disappointed. That he can be a wonderful father and could have done better. That you're lucky to have him in your life and you're unlucky to. That you can be grateful for many things in life

and you can be resentful. As you swim between these two poles of feeling, return to the feeling of your heartbeat. And notice that within your body, there is never just one thing. There's always a balance. The two thumps of your heartbeat, the inhalation and the exhalation, the contraction squeeze your fists together, and then relax them. That eyes can open and close, and that our most basic sense of self involves two things. And so it's perfectly okay for you to feel both of those things with your dad.

And that there's no need to feel guilty for feeling angry. That you deserve to feel both of those ways and that's okay. One doesn't need to win. And the more that you focus on your heartbeat, the deeper this principle will sink into your mind. All you have to do is focus on the heartbeat and you'll learn this on your own. And now for nine beats, I want you to feel your heart.

When you're done, open your eyes. How do you feel? Relaxed. That's what we want to do. So I think relaxed is an interesting word. But I think that, yeah, practice it if you are interested. I think the rapid breathing, if you're feeling anxious or overly energetic, it can also calm down your mind. So that breathing technique, since it involves a lot of activity,

is going to let you get energy out. And then you're left with a calm mind naturally. Right. It's like if you're fidgety and you run like a bunch of, like if you do a bunch of sprints, you're not going to be fidgety anymore. So you need a technique that's going to let you get the excess energy of your mind out and leave you in a calm space. And then find something sensory within you to kind of like zero in on this principle of like yin and yank in breath and out breath heartbeat bump bump bump bump bump bump and since you're a musician i decided to go with the heart because it's got a rhythm to it it's got a you know okay any last thoughts or questions no okay well thank you very much for coming on orio thank you for having me

so much. I learned a lot. Good. I'm glad. I'm really happy that you're on the road that you're on. I think you're going to make really cool things. And I'm really glad that you're actually in treatment and I would encourage you to stick with that. Okay. So good luck to you. You too. And take care. So you're, you're, can we have, I guess I can send a link to your website? You have a YouTube channel? Yeah, I have a YouTube channel. Yeah, I have a YouTube channel. And what's the YouTube channel? OR-3-0, no zeros. It's like O, the letter O. YouTube.com. Yeah. Oh, there it is. We've got it. Okay. Awesome. So guys,

check out Oreo's music. And good luck to you, Oreo. We're rooting for you. Thank you. Take care. You too. Bye. Bye. Okay. That was fun.