HealthyGamerGG - Talking with Pokimane

Episode Date: May 10, 2020

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Technical problems aside, let us begin. I don't know what we're... So, first of all, what do I... What do I call you? What do you go by? I guess a lot of people call me Poki. Okay. If you wanted to be very personal and call me by my name, it's Eamon.

Eamon. Okay. But Poki's fine as well. What do you prefer? I guess I've always kind of felt like Poki is fine for whatever situation. but if someone's going to try to be very personal with me, like me the person, then I guess I'm on makes more stuff.

Okay, so then what would you prefer I do? Do you want me to be personal? Do you want to be personal? I think I enjoy, I like talking with people instead of characters in general. So I think I'm leaning towards Iman, but at the same time, I don't know if you want to be Eamon today or you want to be Poki today. I think I should be Eamon. I feel like it only makes sense.

Both of us are really quiet. I'm sorry, can you say that again? I think it makes sense to be Eamon. Okay. So then let's talk to Eamon. So can you tell me a little bit, is there something in particular that you wanted to talk about today or something that we can help you with? And I say we because Twitch chat is actually pretty good at this by now.

That's really cute. I think you have a lovely community and you do a really good job of moderating them, I think, from what I've seen at least. I don't think there's really anything in particular because I feel like all my issues are very convoluted. Okay. Yeah. And kind of mixed them together. That's what we're here for. So, so I think that that's actually what, I think what we do, what I try to do is just untangle things for people, because I think most people are pretty good at problem solving, they're intelligent, they're capable. And, and it's just, it's really ignorance and not understanding that tends to be the problem for most people. So when you say your issues, like, that's like a heavy word. Like, what, what do you mean by issues?

For starters, do you know how I can prevent myself from crying during this? Absolutely. Maybe. Actually, hold on. Okay. Do you... Let me start with this. What's wrong with crying? I've just been crying a lot.

Okay. So, but what's wrong with that? Where did you get the idea that you're not allowed to cry? Or that crying is bad? I guess just in moments where it feels like it doesn't make sense. Okay. Like now. Okay.

So let's just pause for a second. What are you feeling? There is actually... a really funny picture or meme on the subreddit, I think, like, make me motivated. If anyone either was watching my streamer has seen it or it's like, therapist asks you to open up. And then it's like this glass panel. And inside there's a bunch of dishes that are like so close to falling out. And you're like, I can't.

And they're like, why? And then it's just a picture of that panel. But it sounds like that's not what you're experiencing. It sounds like it's the opposite, right? That the dishes, your panel is so high and the dishes are starting to spill over the top. Yeah, I guess. What are you feeling right now? Do you know?

I guess the nervousness. Okay. And I don't know why, especially for the last like two weeks. I feel like just like very sensitive. and like on the verge of crying very often. And I don't know. Okay. Yeah.

And the crying is a bad crying? Let's start there. So, so. I mean, I'm not the kind of person that is of the opinion that like crying is a bad thing. I often feel like it's really good and like cathartic or like therapeutic. And it kind of like allows you to let your emotions out. But it almost feels like I can never get to that point where they're all out either that or like they're just. like continuously regenerating.

Oh yeah. Oh man. That sounds rough. Yeah. So what I'm hearing from you is that you're not opposed to feeling feelings. It's just it seems like there's a never ending well of like negative feelings. And even if you let yourself cry, like you can cry for a while. But then like at some point the crying is supposed to like make you feel better and you're supposed to stop. Right. Like it's not just like. Yeah. Or at least that's what I've experienced. Yeah. It's like what's.

Because it's not like that. I was told at some point that this would get better. Yeah. And everyone says that once you let it out, then it's out. But you're like... But then it's back like two hours later. Yeah. So what I'm hearing from you is that you don't have a bucket that's full of water.

You have a faucet. Yeah. That sounds rough. I guess maybe. I don't really know why because I haven't really experienced. experience this before. And that's why I'm like, I guess that's like my first question right off the bat. And I thought like, oh, this will be fine. Maybe I will tear up at some point. So I don't know why. Like I literally just say hello and I feel like crying. Yeah. So can I think for a second?

Okay. So my first thought. Actually, can you think for like another second? Sure. I'm just going to get some tissues, I was not prepared. I'm sorry, how do you pronounce your name again? Imon. Imon, do you feel lonely? Let me rephrase, actually. Do you feel alone? I don't know.

I guess it's not really something that I think about because I am like physically not alone because I have like my roommates and stuff. And I do have like good friends that I can vent to. when need be. So in that aspect, I feel like it's not, like, I don't really feel alone in that way. Maybe in more complicated ways that I do, for example, like in terms of the things that I have issues with, I maybe sometimes feel like I deal with those alone or that there aren't like people in similar situations. Yeah, it can be really confusing when you feel a certain way that you're not supposed to feel. Yeah. Or I think especially one of the reasons I was nervous to talk to you today was because I feel like a lot of

things I like shouldn't be justified in feeling because I am also like very privileged and lucky to be in the position that I'm in. And that's also why, like, initially many weeks or months ago when we were talking about potentially doing this sort of thing, I just feel like people don't want to hear someone like me complain, like understandably. So I think that's part of it. I'm going to think about how. So, yeah, so I'm going to just say what I said again, which is it can be confusing to feel things that you're not supposed to feel. right so so what i'm getting from you is so the first thing i'm going to say is i'm i'm here and i'm with you and at least for a little while you're not going to be alone and i'm okay with

who you are and i don't really care that you have privilege like i don't i mean part of the advantage of being a boomer i mean i know who you are i know who you are but i also don't you know i come from worlds i feel like i'm an alien on twitch because they're all of these you know they're yeah there are there are all these things that I don't understand about you guys and Twitch

and like you know I identify with pieces of it but there's a lot of stuff that I don't understand so the first thing that I want to talk to you about is because I think this is this is the problem right is that that you you shouldn't be alone but you are I like what I'm getting from you is like a sense of like shoulds

like it's a case of the shoulds like you shouldn't feel this way because you're privileged but the interesting thing is that like when buddha buddha buddha whatever um said that all human beings are entitled to two things and those things are suffering and death and that's like really really interesting um because you know we have this idea that we say money doesn't buy happiness but it it you know it sure as hell helps but at the same time like i mean i've worked with a lot of of people who are very successful and very privileged. And the one thing that I've seen is that, like, I don't think that being privileged or successful is, makes you invulnerable to suffering. And somewhere along the way, we started judging people who have things that we don't have, and we started gatekeeping suffering for them. And I think that's actually really, really toxic. Right? It says that, like, just because you have something that I don't have, you're not allowed to suffer.

And this is a tango that we all started playing, especially the people who are the haves and the people who are have-nots. It's one that we both do. But in my experience, like, I hate to break it to you, Iman, right? I hate to break it to you, Ma'am, but, you know, no amount of privilege, power, fame, or money is going to be an antidote to your suffering. And in fact, that's exactly what would have learned. So he was wealthy, powerful, there's jokes earlier about people in chat. said queen when they referred to you. And I think it's actually really bizarre because that's literally what Widda was,

like there was a king. And he woke up one day. Yeah. And he was like tired of his privilege or wanted to see what it was like to live otherwise. And I think he became really poor. Yeah. So I don't know that he wanted to see what it was like. I think he actually woke up one day and felt exactly the way that you do, which is

that he cried. and then the next day he cried and the next day he cried and the next day he cried and he didn't know why it wouldn't stop and then he's like things are supposed to make this better and then he looked around at him and he said okay like maybe having more followers on Twitter

will make me feel better maybe being able to eat taste your food will make me feel better maybe having a more loving marriage but he had all those things so he was kind of fucked in a way that very few people are is he had everything I don't know if you have everything or not.

It sounds like you have a lot. But there may be some things in your mind that you tell yourself. Like I don't know in terms of, you know, if you have kids or relationships or things like that and what you think about that. But a lot of times, you know, people who are privileged or successful in some way, like they look at that like that dimension of their life where they're lacking and they say this is what's going to bring me happiness. But Buddha's uniquely. I think I do that a lot. Yeah. Not going to work.

Hate to break it to you. Yeah. I'm very much a problem solver brain, and I also agree. It's probably not going to work. Yeah. I actually think it gets really bad because I become very, like, kind of compulsive about those issues. Yeah. It doesn't really make a difference at the end of the day because I'll just become compulsive about something else once one thing is dealt with.

Brilliant. So let's, I can keep talking about Buddha, but I can't let that slide. So where does that compulsivity? come from? Why are you compulsive? Help us understand that. I think I just have a problem-solver brain, and it's served me for so many years. I can't really turn it off. What does that mean problem-solver brain? Help us understand that. I may think that it spawns from the wrong thing, but I always thought that I came from having a strong love for mathematics and going into engineering. And I mean, my life was school.

And so it was always about like problem solving, min-maxing, trying to be as productive as possible, trying to do my best in all aspects, et cetera, et cetera. And I feel like when it comes to content creation, what makes a content creator really successful is a lot of being able to problem solve and being able to min-max and learning what works and doesn't and changing. and evolving, et cetera. And so because it has served me for so many years, it's a part of me that is kind of hard to turn off. But I have noticed, especially as of late, that it's more so like not trying to like fix good problems per se

or helpful problems. It's just like being obsessive about the next thing that I can fix and make better. You've thought about this a lot. you've thought about this a lot very insightful so let's let's let's so let's try to take the next step okay so when you don't problem solve how do you feel i don't think i've ever done that what does that mean not problem solved exactly all right so you've got to learn exactly what would to learn. Okay. And so the good news is that you can get better. I think it's just going to have,

you're going to have to do something that you've never done before, which is to not try. Right. I literally, I don't know how to do that. Yeah. So we'll, we'll try to help you. We'll try to help you not try. Um, so let's let's talk about this for a second. So you said, so let me, okay, I'm going to ask you about the tangled stuff. Okay. So, so like when you said, things are tangled, can you help me understand, like, what, like, when you wake up and you're crying on a particular day, like, what kind of thoughts are you having or what kind of feelings are you having? It's just, you know, when something is so tangled, it's like, where do you start?

Sure. Yeah, just give me something. Anything. Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with, like, like, if my personal life is going well, like, with my friends or, like, my relationships, people in my life. then it's like okay well then I need to problem solve in terms of like work and then I'll just like think about um it's so hard not to cry you haven't fixed this for me um so let's stop and think about that for a second the first thing that you come on here and say is you say problem solve for me fix

something for me help me not cry when you when you notice when you set a problem for yourself and in imamon says i don't want to cry and then you start crying how do you feel about yourself like what's that like we saw frustration right you're like ah you were supposed to fucking help me with this why is it still happening i mostly frustrated with myself obviously absolutely why are you like tell me about that how do you how do you feel about yourself I feel like I'm doing something that I shouldn't. And that's not something that works with the kind of person that I am. Like, I really don't like to do things that I actively feel are things I shouldn't do.

Ever. Okay. That doesn't mean that I don't make mistakes, obviously. But, like, when I know something is, like, very clearly, like, right or wrong. And I feel like in this situation, like, it just does not compute to be crying. And so to see myself react that way is very frustrating. Okay. So what I'm noticing is like I'm just going to tell you what I heard.

Okay. So look at it with me. Can you, okay? So you have a should. Iman shouldn't be crying right now. I don't know if, can you hear crying in the background? Can you guys hear that? No, right. Okay.

My kid is crying about it. Oh, no, I can hear. At least mom. She's having a little meltdown. So there's a should and you are not that should. And that frustrates you. So I think if you want to get to the bottom of this, we have to start with like, do you remember a time when you were younger

where you felt like you should be something and you weren't that thing? I think, I mean, to give some context, basically, like, my parents immigrated from Morocco to Canada when I was like about four and I think my whole life I've kind of just like grown up with this feeling that I am like very indebted to them for that because they did they did it to give me my brother a better life and so a lot of my life has just been like trying to make my parents proud and that's something that means a lot to me. And that also goes hand in hand with the like, you know, doing the right thing sort of thing. And that's why like things that I generally feel like my parents would disapprove of. Like I just can't bring myself to do, I don't drink, I don't do drugs.

Like I just like generally try to stay away from stuff that could ever result in them being disappointed in me. but I think also that has probably prevented me from ever like going out and experiencing much in life. I also feel like now I'm very indebted to like my community and to my viewers for giving me the life that I have. And so frequently it just feels like I have all these voices like telling me what they expect from me. And also the problem solver in me has created like a system around me that depends on me. Like as you continue your years in being a content creator, you start like delegating things. You get a PA. You have an agent.

You have a manager. You have blah. And so I feel like there's all these people that rely on me to do what I need to do in order for them to do what they need to do. And I guess recently I've just been thinking a lot about all those things and maybe it's starting to feel a bit overwhelming. Okay. So I feel like this should and should not come from a lot of different angles. And even now doing this in front of you, although like, you know, I am trying not to look at chat and have this just be an experience between us too. it's very nerve-wracking because it feels like anything I do, there will be like some way to twist it negatively.

And that is another reason why crying is so frustrating. Because it's like, I mean, being vulnerable in and of itself isn't easy. But also everyone that's just going to think that I am like fake crying. Iman, are you. My brain is zooming. How far are you from perfect? Very. Do you want to be perfect?

I don't think that's possible. Why do you strive for it? Because does life make sense any other way than to try to be, I guess, your best self? That's your problem, my friend. Yeah, because here's the crazy thing, okay? I'm going to say something you may not make any fucking sense. You are perfect. What do you think about that?

I feel like that's the kind of thing like you say to someone and you're like, everyone's unique the way they are. Like, you're perfect the way you are. I guess that's what I hear. Yeah, absolutely, right? Because I don't think you understand that. But I want you to just think about this. And I do say shit like that. But it's not because I'm trying to be positive.

It's not positive. I'm not trying to prop you up. I'm trying to talk about what you are now, not what you could be. like the only thing that exists in this world is what is right so like take a look at your tissue look at your tissue is it a good tissue is it a good tissue or a bad tissue or is it it's a good tissue or is it's a good tissue but but why it's it's like got some gunk on it right it's like wet it can't absorb what it should be able to absorb right it did its job no but but it's not perfect because if you cry more, if someone else cries more, like, they can't use that tissue.

I guess. So the question is, did you do your job? Like, you're not perfect, right? I'll accept that. But did you do your job? Did you do what you can do? Did you do the best that you could? I feel like I don't know what that is.

Yeah. There's no for me to say, like, what is enough? Absolutely. And this is the thing you've got to understand. what is enough is exactly what you are. Right? So like when you look at the tissue, you say it's enough. It did what it was supposed to. I'm content with it. Is it completely dry? No. Can it hold its maximum amount of tears? No. But it's held what it's needed to for now. And I don't blame it for not being drier.

This can sound fucking weird. Okay. So if I lose you, let me know. And if you want to pry more, let me know. I'm trying to be a little bit philosophical and help you understand this intellectually because I think your mathematical mind is something we have to leverage. That's one of your strengths. And in the idea, like if you think about an equation, like an equation can only kind of be what it is, right?

Actually, that's not true. That's a bad example. So you could derive the equation and you could turn it to another equation. Yeah, or I mean, we can't say one plus one is three because that's wrong. That actually reinforces the idea of, should and objective truth.

So what I actually want you to be able to do is look at your life and say one plus one is three, that what you are, even though it's not enough, what the fuck? My Spotify randomly decided to turn on. But sorry about that. Someone's nothing. So anyway, I'm going to bring you there hopefully. But I just want you to think about this idea that like, like, you know, the only that can exist is like what you are. Like you can't be anything else. Like I can't make you. So like some

people like feel like they should be an inch taller. Right. And they're like, oh, I'm short. And it's like, yeah, man, I get that you have good reasons for wanting to be taller, even that you should be taller or that being short sucks. But like you literally can't be any height but what you are. right and it's not just height that is determined by like our karma and our biology it's like circumstance and you kind of feel like you should do certain things and like i just think that that's wrong i don't think you should do anything i think that you are and i know it's shit that i say but i mean really it's not that you're perfect it's that you are like if i say you know the pen is here and we can say that this pen is perfect

because it's exactly where it is it can't be anywhere else. Like it literally cannot be anywhere else. That existence is, is. It's not could be. Like the pen can't be anywhere else. Like it's here and like now it's here. Like it can't be back over here.

It is here, right? The possibility of the pen being here is like, is not a real thing because I move it over here but like where's the pen? It should be here or shouldn't be. It's stupid. It's here. It's here.

And in your mind, somewhere along the way, and I get, I think it's brilliant that you've, you know, discovered that it's adaptive for you, that it helps you, it supports you. The strive for perfection is responsible for your success. And... I'm just... Okay. Really. Sorry. I'm so sorry.

It's... It's... Anyway. So I think what we've got to get to is like the bottom of like where you get this idea that you should be something. And my hypothesis, and we'll look for this. Okay. So like oftentimes my hypotheses are wrong. So I'll say my first hypothesis is that somewhere along the way you felt like you were something.

And someone and you really knew what you were. And that someone important to you told you that you shouldn't be that. and then what happened is like you calibrated away from yourself and towards that thing and then over time you calibrated towards should should should should should and that's what you that's what you kind of like set your you know your zero towards that became your true north and then somewhere along the way like you got left behind as you became pokey iman got left behind I can see what you mean and where you're coming from. I think it's kind of hard for me to think of a moment where, like, I for sure, like, knew what I wanted to be.

I've been thinking about it recently, and I do know that for quite some time, I kind of tried to separate the two. but mainly in order to like protect myself kind of like when people would um theorize or say like or try to twist a lot of stuff like publicly i'd be like oh like all they see is like pokey like they don't know me personally and and like that's kind of how i separated the two to kind of like make myself feel better. But the kind of theory that I came to recently is more so that not that like I know or knew what I wanted to be, but that I just haven't given myself time to like identity develop

because I've spent to please others. Yeah, man. That's, that makes perfect sense to me. Like that's like literally what I'm saying. is that like, so a long time ago, and I think you've been doing this way longer than you realize. Or, I mean, I think you do realize it, but like way longer than before,

I mean, how long have you been streaming on Twitch? Six or seven years. And is it okay to ask people how old they are on Twitch, or is that not okay? Yeah. Okay. How old are you? I also think about that.

I'm 23, and it's like some of the most formative years of my life I've spent, like, working to the point of giving myself health, issues and just stressing about, like, pleasing others and what others think and not giving myself any time to just, like, live life and figure out who the fuck I want to be or am happy with. Yeah, man, I think you got that shit figured out all on your own. But I've only gotten that far, and I've only gotten that far from freaking crying for a

week straight. Good for you. So let's think about this, right? So what I'm hearing is also a subtle should. that I should have spent more time on identity to develop. Yeah, that, that too. It's not like, oh, I can just like look at myself and be like, oh, this is just like how I've ended up.

And I am this pen that is like, I don't know, I feel like talking to Poki and Iman. And I think the point here is that Pokedy doesn't let Iman grow. And you're beating yourself up for being. pokey too much, but that in and of itself is pokey talking. Right? I mean, the thing is, like, I don't see it as like, no, I don't like see it as an alter ego or really, I don't know. It's really hard for me to tell it.

I feel like the problem, sorry, go ahead. No, go, go for it. Oh, I'm just going to say, I feel like that problem solver part of me isn't necessarily like only part of like my work side or, um. I don't know. It's really hard for me to separate like that. Yeah, no, no, no, no. It's not part of your work only. Like, because this is what I'm saying, like, your tendency to gravitate towards should started way before you started streaming on Twitch. And I think you're spot on that, you know, I didn't realize how young you were. But I mean, if you started streaming on Twitch at the age of 16, you're damn right that like a lot of identity development is going to be kind of, you know, like stunted to be blunt. Right. So like, like 16 to 23 is when. when, you know, people go to college and like, I don't know who the fuck I was until I was, like, 28.

I'm glad I went to college for at least two years. Yeah, good. I thought that was good. Yeah. And so, like, you know, so I think it's okay to not know who you are at the age of 23. Like, people think that 23 is adults, but, like, not really. I mean, people are, like, developmentally younger because I think the challenges that we face are, like, are far more complex.

What are, what are psychology and brains are assaulted by on a daily basis? growing up has changed. Like, it's not like we're living in the woods and like it's the same fucking shit every day. You know, it's like it's issues of identity and, and confusion and, and what the world is. Like, my grandmother did not know that other places existed. Like, it's a bizarre thing to think about, but like she like literally did not know that other locations were real things. Like she grew up in her village and she had heard of places, but they were like Neverland or stories. Like Bombay was like a place that people went. Like, it was like, a place that people went. Like, It was a story.

Like she had conceptualized that it was actually a geographical location where there are stairs and doorways and cars and people. And that the world was like a place. It was like a myth. But now the world has become a real place in there. And like even compared to, you know, 20 years ago, the opinions that you had to deal with were like localized to the people that you met. But enter the internet where now you can get judged by hundreds of thousands of people. are millions of people and you used to deal with the judgment of the kids in school

it's like the same 30 fucking kids and now you have millions of people who can judge you I worry so much about preteens and teens in this day and age yeah they're fucked mental health yeah they're really it's bad

and it's gonna get worse and anyway but so this is this is the thing you mon I think I think even the way that you beat yourself up for not having developed your identity is another should. So we got to get to the bottom of the should. And you're absolutely right that should is adaptive. Okay.

So oddly enough, I feel like I'm well equipped to help you because the people that I work with in my day job, I think have very similar problems to you, which is that they've flagellated themselves into success. And they're like, they wake up one day and they're, they're, you know, you're apparently Twitch royalty. And then, you know, in their case, they're like managing director at like Golden Sacks. Or they're like a physician at Harvard Medical School. And they wake up. Huh?

Nothing. And they say the same thing. They're like, but I am all of these things. Like, why do I desert? Like, why am I crying? I shouldn't be fucking crime. And then I tell them like, well, maybe you should like stop flagellating yourself and stop trying to be better.

And they're like, I don't know how to do that. I don't know what that looks like. that's that's me smiley yeah right like I don't know what acceptance and this is another one of those you know yoga calendar flower kind of things like accept yourself man I know no but like you literally like that's not like a thing on a yoga calendar that's something that you literally it's like the pen right like you can't be anything but what are it's like silly like you literally you can't be an inch taller you can't be more developed in terms of an identity perspective.

You can't be any of those things because you are what you are. You past is what it is. If we're talking about engineering and mathematics, if you build a structure in a particular way, that structure can either bear a weight or it can't bear a weight. Like you can't, what it should bear

is actually completely irrelevant because either it's capable or it's incapable, it's a fact. But you don't view yourself as a fact. You view yourself as a fiction. you view yourself as a should you're not a building you're an architectural diagram

you're like a building who looks in an architectural diagram of like a different building and says I should be that but that's like it's like literally like a building can't be anything but what it is but I also feel like I'm a building but I am the architect of the building that is me so I can change myself to ideally be what I would like to be but I know that isn't really feasible in a

lot of aspects, but in some of them, it is. No, but because it's a reasonable, oh shit. So it's a reasonable thing to think because you've done that, right? You've been a building who says, I want to be one story taller, and then you figured out how to like get people to build you another story. And then you said, I want to be one story taller. And you figured out how to do that. You figured out how to do that.

So the funny thing is that you've actually given yourself evidence to believe that you can be something that you are not. And I still think this goes all the way back. to like, I mean, so I'm thinking about how to say this. Tell me about your indebtedness to your parents. Can I also mention one other thing? Sure. When I think about, I guess, all of the stuff we've talked about, namely, I guess,

my lack of, like, giving myself a break over all these years, maybe one of the reasons I cry so much is like, I feel like I'm mourning over that. Absolutely. It's so weird. I don't really know how to explain it, but like. No, that's a great way of explaining it. I feel really sad for myself. Yes.

Absolutely. Because, I'm telling you. Myself at 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. It's, that's a brilliant. This is what I'm telling you. Like, so I'm going to go back to this idea, right? So, like, there was. Eman when you were very young

and there was something that you knew you were and I'm not talking about like you knew you were you know wanted to be an engineer like and then like there was like something that someone told you like hey you should be something different and then you went towards

that thing and then like a little voice inside you said like hey that's not who I am and then this other voice said no no but that's not who you should like you shouldn't be what you are you should be what these people tell you to be and then you went further and further and further and further and further and further away from that voice. And I think what you feel right now is pity. You feel pity towards yourself.

You're mourning because there was like a little girl in there who like had feelings that were completely fair and legitimate. And Pokey told her to shut the fuck up and sit in the closet because we have shit to do. And so morning, mourning is exactly what you have to do. And let's just think about what mourning means, right? Because mourning is not about should. Like, let's just think about what is mourning? If we think about acceptance and should,

what does mourning mean? When do we mourn? I know it's kind of weird. When something has, like, died or passed. Yeah, but just think about that. Like, when I'm, so my dad passed away a few years ago, and I remember like mourning him, yeah, it's all good. I'm cool with it. He's cool with it.

He's cool with it. We're sad. I'm happy to hear that. Yeah. So, I mean, I appreciate the sentiment, but,

you know, we're good. So if we think about that, like, if I'm mourning, do I think to myself he should still be alive today? I guess.

Okay. So when I've completed mourning, do I think that to myself? You've accepted. Exactly. Because she, should is the opposite of mourning. Like should is saying that this person should not be dead.

But they fucking are. Right? And so you can tell yourself that they should be alive and it's like you can say it's it is a tragedy. And you can say like they should be alive. But like should cannot exist with mourning. And mourning is the process of taking should to acceptance. So you should absolutely be doing that. I think it's awesome that that's the way that you feel because that means you're doing it right.

So give yourself a pat on the back. You're doing exactly what you should be doing. Good job, I'm on. A plus. I don't want validation from that, though. I don't want validation from just feeling like I'm doing what I should be doing. I think everyone's aware of that. Right? So the way, so it's good that like so. I'm glad it makes sense in some like. Yeah, because I mean. Yeah, because I'm giving you the A plus and I'm laughing at it. And then you're noticing the absurdity of it. and then you're saying I don't want validation from it. And I'm giving you a caricature, a hyperbole of validation,

because I'm giving you a fucking A plus, which is what you wanted all your life. And therein we see that the beast within you is fed. So, I'm on, let me ask. I've said this a lot of times about my frustrations with content creation, which is that there is no rubric. And like, you know, my whole life, I've just loved school. And it's just all about rubrics and finally feeling like,

okay, when I school, score a 90 or above. Like, that means I did good. I did my job and I can go play video games and rest at night. But, you know, when I'm stuck in a position where there is, like, numbers don't stop. There is no, you've done enough. And I don't know how to set that for myself at all, even though, and I am duply, if that's why you pronounce the word, or doubly frustrated with myself because I know.

No, no, it's duply. that I've been thinking. Okay, perfect. I'm dubly frustrated with myself because it's something that I've known for a long time, but it's just a problem that, like, I don't know how to solve. Yeah, so it's actually doubly. And the way that you solve it is by using the word duply. Is that you can't, you're not allowed to say dougly.

So like literally, really, literally, literally. I kind of like the way duply sounds. Good. You should fucking say it that way, because it's wrong. I'm, uh, English was the second language I learned. And there's so many words that I just like can't properly pronounce like that. So my bad, but. No, no, no, no.

You're missing the point. No, I'm getting the point. I know. Let me, let me repeat back to you what you said and you tell me which statement is wrong. Right? You correct your homework. So you get an A plus. English is the second language I learned.

It's hard for me to pronounce all words correctly. My bad. Which, which, where's the problem statement, Eman? The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the whole thing. I probably don't really, I don't know. No, no, no, no. Just the my bad. Right?

You're doing it wrong. Go fuck yourselves. I'm doing it wrong. Dubell. Like, that's, that's how you learn it. Right? By telling that part of you that's like, hey, you should be something else. You're like, nah, I'm going to do this today.

And that's what acceptance is. It's, we could go back and talk about your past, but, like, you know, that's what you've got to do. You've got to, like, think about this. Like, think about the thing that you should be doing, right? Whether it's like, you pick something. And then you don't do it. And then you look at that beast. Because here's the thing, like, what happens when you feed a beast?

It gets bigger. Absolutely. And stronger. Yep. And then it wants more food. Absolutely. Beautiful. I never really thought about it that way. What have you been doing to should?

Your entire life. Feeding it and it grows and it grows and it grows. And now you've hit your breaking point. Because this thing has grown so big. It's like a wolf that's the size of an elephant. You just can't feed it enough anymore. And it's hungry and it's saying, I'm on, it's not enough.

I'm still hungry. You should be better. And you're like, how much better do you want? want me to be. And it's like, I don't, and it's like, I don't know, but give me more food. Find some way to make yourself better. That's the compulsion. And you're like, okay, I fixed, I fixed my relationships. And it's like, I want more. And you're like, okay, I'm going to become a successful Twitch streamer. It's like, I want more. Okay. And then you put yourself up on the altar of sacrifice. And you say, I should be better because you fixed everything else in the outside world.

And then you give it yourself. And you say, oh, I should be better. And then it's like, ah, good. Now I'm satisfied because you're never going to feel better, right? You can always feed it yourself. You can always find something about yourself that isn't good enough. And it's just growing and growing and growing. And the way that you stop is you stop feeding the beast. And then it's going to hurt because it's like it's going to feel hungry and hunger doesn't feel good. And then you sit with that.

And so I don't know what it is, but like there's got to be a thousand things that you should be doing. What are they? I should probably like call my parents more. I should make more content. I should like diversify. I should make sure I'm responding to these emails and these projects and these sponsor liaisons and blah, blah, blah, blah. And on top of that, there are so many people that like rely on me doing these things.

Not only that, but they require a lot of direction from me. But also I hired them to do the stuff. So it only really makes sense. And it's just like an endless list. Yeah. So what is one thing that you cannot do today? Okay. And you choose one.

No, I mean, I don't know. I won't respond to work stuff. Good for you. How does that feel? I mean, to be honest, I have been having these, like, episodes of just, like, indulging in not doing shit for a solid, like, 12 hours. or like I guess 24 hours if you include sleep and that will like feel really nice in the moment

sort of a bit guilty I struggle with a lot of that guilt yep um it'll just like flip flop back and forth between like how long can I go without feeling guilty it feels so good just play video games for no reason with no one watching and then at some point it's like I'm really guilty I need to like do all this stuff

That's what needs to change, right? So, like, what you need to do is don't flip flop. Don't flip flop. Don't flip flop. Balance. The problem here is that you've got a seesaw. And you're like, Iman needs some time to herself. And then Poki's like, no, you don't get fucking time.

And Amon's like, but I feel good. And Poki's like, no, no, no. You guys, like, you need to be in the middle, right? You need to say, like, okay, I'm going to do this for a while. And the dog that's hungry, you're going to tell the dog like, hey, man, I know it's going to hurt. you're going to get fed tomorrow and I'm not going to neglect you like Poki deserves a seat at the table too

like she deserves to be there and she's helped you out a lot and you're not trying to tell her that she's a bad person but at the same time like Iman needs some time to herself and like you can sit with both of those right like you can sit with like I am not going to live up to my responsibilities

and I'm going to feel guilty and that's okay I don't have to give into the guilt And I also don't have to try to conquer it. Like this is the problem that people have is they try to conquer their negative emotions. And you started, you started like from the fucking get-go. First words out of your mouth. How do I not pry? Fix this.

How are we doing? We're okay. We're on the right track. How did we do that? Just talking? No. Letting it. It's not just talking.

Incorrect answer. Now, how do you feel? Notice, how do you feel? Scambling for correct answer, trying to compute. Good. Sip that shit. You're not going to find it. Anything you say, I'm going to say you're wrong.

That's good. This is the kind of, like, I guess, like, challenge. There's a word I'm looking for that I can find. But it doesn't matter. This is the kind of, like, back and forth that I feel is actually. conducive or constructive to what I need. I'm trying to figure out how you're squirrely even with that. It's squirrely.

There's squirreliness in there. Because see, damn it, Imani, I'm on. No. See, see, even now, you're saying, but I'm like that statement is saying, I'm doing the thing that I should be to grow to be a better person. I mean, this does feel nice, though. I know it feels nice, but do you see how deep it is?

It's like even then, the reason you're okay with it because beneath all of the discomfort, you're actually growing. You're actually moving towards should. I think also it just kind of feels nice to not cry for like three minutes. Yeah. I think I'll just focus on that and not so much think about, oh, this is going in a good way or whatever. Yes, good. Yeah.

Right? So that's the pen here. You're like, oh, like that pen's actually like, we're fine with the pen being here. It doesn't need to be anywhere else. And you're absolutely right that that feels good. And so now I'm going to have a crazy, crazy thought for you. It's not because we're talking. It's not because you're venting.

It's because you are being where you are. That's why you're not crying. And that's why you're laughing. And this is what Wood the discovered. He called it bliss. And people don't even know what that means. being where you are is bliss and being where you

thinking about where you should be is suffering oh that's so true so you don't you're not getting better at this you can't get better at this you can't level up you can just do it or not do it

in a given moment and no amount of doing it before it is actually untrue but no amount of doing it because your brain can change and there's neuroscience involved and all that shit But just pretend for a moment.

Okay, work with me. No amount of doing it is going to change the fact that you have to do it today and now. Like, this is the battle that you have to fight, right? It's like, you have to say like, okay, there's a part of me that wants to be better. And like, I'm just going to talk now. I'm going to do the thing in the here and now. Because if you think about all of those shoulds, those shoulds are about the future. They're not about now.

They're about like, I should do this so that this person can do this. I should do this so that this person can do this. And then I have to do this. and I should call my parents more because why should you call your parents more? Because they could die one day. And if they died one day and then I'd be guilty because I didn't call them enough. Oh my God. Yeah.

Oh, my God. Yeah, that's my brain. Except like, you know, for another like two minutes. Yeah, absolutely. And then you get exhausted of that and the brain's like, okay, next thing. Next thing to beat ourselves up over. Beat ourselves up. Beat ourselves up.

Beat ourselves up. And you're absolutely right that this is instrumental to your success. Absolutely right. Right. Because unless you beat yourself up, so you have a high degree of neuroticism and conscientiousness from the Big Five personality kind of, if you know what any of that shit is. But what that means is that like you're basically like a med student. You're like a fucking tryhard med student. I hate these kids. Okay. No, I was not a med student. I was an N student and there's a difference. Okay. All the same. STEM is all the same. All the STEM fields. disagree but okay but I do get where you're coming from if I didn't go into ENJ I would have gone into Med

Enjic you don't have to tell me that Moroccan Moroccan immigrants coming to the US or Canada like come on I've actually been thinking about that so much I've literally not only been like daydreaming

but just regular dreaming fantasizing about like going back to school Please tell me you're not going to become a doctor No, I don't think I could become a doctor Okay, thank you. Yeah, just like going back to school And I know I shouldn't be looking Maybe it is not ideal to look

Or to be thinking of it that way. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't get to, you don't get to just change the words and still have the thoughts. I know. I was just hoping you wouldn't call me out on it. No, I mean, you knew I was going to call you out, but you weren't sound at all. But that's okay.

That's you actually calling attention to it, which is fine. That's beautiful. That's what you shouldn't be doing. You should notice. That's you noticing it. I think it's my brain's way of, you know, again, trying to problem solve. Like, oh, I'm not happy with the way my life is. How about I go back three years when I was in university doing engineering and whatever?

maybe then I would be But I know No no I don't know that that's just problem solving Because that could be imam That could be imam saying I actually want to go back And have some of those experiences that I missed out on Because I deserve them

Maybe it's problem solving Maybe it's that I don't know What do you think it is? I think when it's Specifically in regards to like going back to school It was just like that sentiment of like life being simpler because I could live by a rubric. But I do think in general, when I just think about the amount of time that I've been streaming,

I think about those. Also quarantine has really made me think about, I guess, all the experiences I probably missed out on, especially because I had a lot of traveling plans for this year. And I felt like that was one of the ways that I could simultaneously, do my job, but experience new things and feel like I'm, like, growing as a person or allowing myself to develop some sort of identity that I'm happy with or experience good and bad. And now feeling like, I guess I can't get to do that, it further imposes the fact that I really haven't gotten to in the past. And then I just feel sad. I'm going to think for a second.

So sometimes I have these This is one of those moments Can she hear me? I guess not So I can say this I'll just wait for her This is one of those moments Can you hear me? No? Okay Huh?

This is one of those moments I have these moments sometimes When I'm talking to people and generally speaking in my day job But remember this isn't psychiatry Okay So I have these moments where Someone says something important and found that I just have this emotional reaction that it's going to sound like a complete asshole.

And I just, I couldn't care less. Okay. That's good. Like, like, I mean, I get that you had all these ideas about yourself and like, but even then, see, like it's so subtle. It's, it's, it's, because it's the same shit. It's like you're trying to figure out how to be a better you. You know, like, oh, like, I had this, like, it frankly, it infuriates me actually a little

bit when you think about, like, you know, I was going to travel and still work, but like, you're still feeding that same beast. You're trying to find you're not, that's not actually going to, I mean, it's going to help. The little I'm on me was like, I found a compromise. Exactly. And then this compromise was taken from me. Yeah. But I think the problem is that you don't deserve a compromise. You deserve. Iman. I mean needs to get her seven years back. like traveling and and streaming and stuff like I'm not saying don't do it right because that sounds wonderful and fun and all that good stuff it sounds like a great idea and at the same time like don't confuse yourself that that's I mean it's a step in the right direction but it's not the root

like the root is that like you should be able to travel and not work I will have a lot of people telling you otherwise that's fine so so but then then we get back to like okay so like, oh, what are you telling me, Amon? Are you telling me that you're living your life for others? Huh. Yes, smiley. But to be fair, that's also like where I derive the most satisfaction. Okay, fine.

So I don't think. And they're helping or, yeah. Yeah, so I don't think that you should ignore others. And I think that's part of your Dharma. So Dharma is the Sanskrit word for duty. So I think that I, too, have to live my life for others. I don't think I can just stop streaming now. And I think that that's fine.

But at least I acknowledge, and I think this is what you've got to think about, it's like it's okay to do things for other people. But you should understand. Like the difference is not that you don't do things for other people. It's that you devalue yourself for maybe not wanting to do those things. There's a huge difference between saying,

I'm going to eat, I'm sitting there for getting my afternoon coffee. I used to have this problem all the time. I trained at this place called Massachusetts General Hospital. And so I was at MGH, and I was sitting there getting my 4 p.m. coffee because I was tired and overworked and all that shit. And I'd get my coffee, and then in the little display case, they have like this healthy muffin and they have a chocolate chip cookie. And I would have a struggle every day. And it turned out that the brand muffin was actually pretty good.

And so I would eat the brand muffin. and there's a big difference between saying I'm going to eat the brand muffin even though I want the chocolate chip cookie and saying I should want the brand muffin over the chocolate chip cookie. And I think there's a big difference between doing something

because you think it's the right thing to do and because it's a sacrifice and beating yourself up because that's not something that you don't want to do. I have no problem with you trying to support your community or do things that are good for the people on Twitch, which is great. I'm behind that 100%. but I want you to be honest with yourself about like is that actually what you want

and if you say that I'm willing to make the sacrifice I mean I make sacrifices all the time my kid does this thing where once or twice a week she wakes up at like three or four in the morning she can't go back to sleep she comes and you know we try to put her to sleep for a while and then she's like at five in the morning she's like daddy I want noodles and I wake up and then I'm up with her from like four to seven and and you know it's absolutely but you're try getting woken up at four in the morning. Yeah. I mean, it sounds cute, and it's wonderful, and it makes me feel like a good dad.

And it also sucks. You know, so, so, like, I think that the issue here is not that you're not willing to do things that suck. The problem is that I think you beat yourself up for not wanting to do them. And this still goes back to, I mean, if you want to go back to the trail of tears, we've got to go back to, like, what was life like for you as a kid? because I think that's where all this started. The indebtedness.

Like it's crushing. You sounded so heavy when you said that, that word. And should you be grateful? Like, absolutely. Did they do a lot for you? Absolutely. But I can tell you something else that if you really want to like get emotional,

that they would be, do they know how you feel? It would destroy them if they did. It would destroy them. And you have to tell them. Because I want you to, you know, what do they want for you? Amon. They want me to be happy. I know that.

And are you? Sometimes. Right. So are you going to, and this is the, the other thing is like, parents are pretty smart, especially your parents. I think they know. Yeah, maybe. Maybe not. Why don't you tell them how you feel?

I don't know. It's even hard to tell you how I feel. I feel like it's very. I'm a fucking stranger on the internet. I feel like it's very convoluted for starters. And also, I really, really, I don't like to worry my parents. So even just telling them like, oh, I had a bad weekend or I'm crying or whatever it is. Like, especially for my mom, that will just worry the heck out of her.

She'll be ringing me every, like, hour. And if anything, that just makes me. feel more stressed out because now not only am I like sad or stressed or whatever it was initially but now I am worried about her being worried and also kind of irritated it's just it's a big mess it does not feel like the kind of process that um yeah I guess I've just learned to deal with it on my own yeah so you remember earlier when I was like talking about this this moment where you were imman or you were pokey and that you should do something and you didn't do that and you did the thing should do instead of being the person that you wanted to be.

Uh-huh. I think we just found it. Like in a weird way, like, this makes perfect sense to me. Because what I'm hearing is that you grew up in a household that, and I'm not trying to blame your parents, just every household. I mean, my kids are going to be screwed up. Like, don't, you know, don't delude yourselves about that. For the children of psychiatrists, I don't know if you guys, you guys ever met children

of psychiatrists. They're all fucked up. And, and so it's just, it's just an inevitability. There's no such thing as a perfect parent. I mean, you've done phenomenally well on so many metrics. And, like, you're also tortured. And, like, we're all tortured. Like, that's how it works.

Right. And what I'm also hearing from you is that fundamentally, like, you know, when you expressed your feelings to your mom, it sounds like you felt responsible for worrying her. And then so there was, there was like, I want you to imagine six-year-old Iman who's like, I don't feel good. But if mom knows, then she's not going to feel good. And so you were protective of your parents.

And by not showing them, like, you shoved yourself in the closet. There's like crying him on and then there's Happy Amon. And then what Happy Amon did is she took crying him on and she's like, get into the closet. Mom's coming. How funny, the mental image of me telling me to get in the closet is. That's what you've been doing your entire life, my friend. Yeah. I think you should talk to your parents.

Pardon? I think you should talk to your parents. Yeah, I, maybe. What, what, what hesitation do you have? I don't know. What is, what do I say? Okay, I can help you with that. Can I give it a shot?

You let me know how this sounds. Your parents are still together? Yeah. So I think you start by telling them that you're grateful and you can add whatever story. So tell me the story of moving from Morocco to Canada.

Yeah, when I was four in Morocco, it's actually funny. When I was really, really young, I hated, like, school or, like, doing anything. Like, when I was little, I was real wild. And then we moved to Canada,

and then I became an angel. I'm just kidding. But I became very, like, studious. It was all about, like, doing what I had to do. And yeah, that's just how I grew up. My mom is a teacher. And my dad is like an engineer, but also taught at a university at some point. So they were always like very supportive when it came to school. And that was like, you know, like I would do well in school. I would get validation from them. And that was like my cycle of happiness, I guess. And oh, they were also like pretty strict. it's like, oh, you don't go out late, like no boys in the house.

Like, you don't hang out with too many boys. Do this, you do that. A lot of the stuff that, especially in, like, high school, my friends would do or could do, I wouldn't. But also, like, maybe I had, like, a little while of, like, being rebellious or angry about that sort of stuff. But especially in, like, my later years of high school, why I just kind of learned to play around it. Do you know what that, is that a saying that people use outside of gaming? I don't, I don't represent all people outside of gaming. So I don't really know.

Well, do you get what I mean when I say play around? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Because I don't know if you mean psychologically or like you, yeah, I don't know. Oh, what I mean is kind of just a work around it in a sense. But work around it like in actuality? Like so. No, I don't. So my wife, for example, wasn't allowed to have boys in the house either.

But the way she worked around it is that she took a ladder and would leave it in the backyard so that people could climb up the ladder and come in through a balcony. That's a workaround. I don't know if that's what you mean. For me, I mean, like sometimes I would sneak out to like get McDonald's with my friends, but I was never really rebellious. So what do you mean by working? My work around was just like I found happiness online via just gaming.

And I love to game so much. I was like, oh, well, my parents want me to stay at home all the time anyways. So sure, I guess I will forego whatever else and just stay at home and make friends online. And then when I was 17, that's when I started streaming. And that was also my way of like not being so sad about missing out on other things. So it was like, oh, I found something else to do and be excited about it. Yeah, so I'm going to try to keep things practical. I'd love to explore that further, but I'm going to try to keep things practical and hopefully, you know,

I know you want a rubric by the time we end this. No, it's okay. So, no, but I like rubrics too. I feel frustrated if there isn't some sense of progress at the end of it. so we can be partners in prime there. So thinking a little bit about it, I mean, I would start by just talking to them about, like, I would start with exactly what you told me, which is that you're grateful and also feel indebted to them that you need to be happy in life.

And then you can even, you know, add color like you kind of did to mine. Like, I don't know, I mean, I'm the son of immigrants as well. So there's like a powerful story there in my mind about sacrifices that they made to come here and I mean, my parents, you know, were in, like, had to borrow money for the plane ticket. And because they couldn't afford a plane ticket. And so they came here with, like, two suitcases in debt. And then, you know, it's a powerful story of, like, a lot of sacrifice. And, like, I remember my dad, when he was, like, in high school, like, they had, like, singing class.

and so he went to singing class like all kids do and then like his music teacher thought that he was like talented so he's like you should come and you know join like this like club and so they joined the club and they went to go compete and they won so he won first place for singing and he went home and he showed his my grandmother the trophy and can you guess what she did or what she said

She said it probably wasn't important because it wasn't related to academics. Really close. She snapped it in half, threw it away, smacked him up beside the head and said, what the fuck are you doing wasting your time? You should be studying more. That's so sad. Yeah. And so he did study more.

And he became a doctor. And he came here in debt. And I know exactly how you feel in terms of that indebtedness. And I know for me it manifested in a different way because I didn't do a good job. I didn't do well in school. I failed, and I was filled with shame for letting them down. And then eventually I became, as I put it, all Indian parents' dreams and all Indian kids' nightmare by becoming a Harvard-trained physician. And then I became that which I loathed.

And what I loathed growing up was like my parents would tell me some random person who I'd met once and they're accomplished. It would be like someone so sad is like doing this like oh oh yeah it's like so and so yeah go for it i was just going to say like many years into content creation even making like six figures plus a year my mom would still hit me with the are you going to go back and get your degree next semester you know it's like probably not yeah but imagine how happy she's going to be, Iman, when you tell her that you're going to go back to school. Maybe that's subconsciously playing a part, but, uh... Boy, that runs deep.

Maybe. But going, going back to, you know, how to talk to your... I mean, I think you've got to talk to them and just tell them that, like, you know, I'm grateful and I feel indebted and I feel like I need to be happy, but there's a part of me that isn't. And hear what they have to say. and you're going to it's unclear what you're going to get like maybe your mom will start breaking down in tears and then you can break down in tears and then you guys can cry and all that stuff and and yeah and then you've got then this is the hard part right you've got to sit with that and then you've got to ask her mom why are you crying and then she's going to say something just because you're suffering and then I'm going to say

well I'm crying because you're crying and then you guys have to figure out like how are you what are you all going to do about that. Oh, that's hard to imagine. Absolutely. And this is the thing, I think you're playing a split-player game. You got to start treating your family as party members instead of NPCs. I'm serious. Right? Like you're carrying all of this weight. Like, I can't imagine, I can't tell you just the thought. Like, if I had a daughter in your situation, it would be so hard. I would just be livid that she was not taught of these things, because that's what I'm here for. Right?

I don't want her to protect my feelings. I want to be able to do something about it. Like when my kid wakes me up at five in the morning, like, of course, I'm furious, but it's also like, I'm glad you woke me up because you're two and a half years old and you can't make yourself instant noodles. I don't want you to try. I'm 23 years old. Huh?

Yeah, but I'm 23 years old. And so it feels like I am old enough to the point that, like, I should be able to deal with these things. There it is. my parents. There it is. Did you hear the word? Should.

Yeah. The correct answer, it should. Yep. There it is. Good. Yeah. But here's, you shouldn't. Like, I mean, I still rely on my mom for shit.

Like, you know, she still tries to do my laundry. And it's like, it's weird. I mean, you want to talk about being like not independent. I'm 37, ostensibly professionally successful and independent. And I live with four women who all in some capacity take care of me. You want to talk about, I don't know what Moroccan culture is like, but in Indian culture, like men are incapable of taking care of themselves. And I'm so incapable of taking care of myself that like one isn't enough, two isn't enough, three isn't enough. You need four.

I had to breed a couple to get my needs met. And it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful and scary thing the day that you have a daughter that's old enough that can do something for you. Aw. It's like wonderful, but it's also like, hey, can you go get me that thing from upstairs? And they're like, absolutely that.

And then they go and they're like, yeah, okay. I can get used to this. But you've got to tell him, Amon. And you've got to sit with her, like, worry and anxiety. And this is where the problem solver and you need to recognize that, like, part of your reluctance to deal with feelings probably comes as model behavior from her. And can you guys sit with the idea that, like, there's parts of you that are unhappy, but, like,

your life is good. And you need to share with that with them, too. Like, don't give them one seesaw. Like, one part of the seesaw. The problem here is that you're only giving them one half of the seesaw. Give them both. They'll be able to handle it. I don't know.

Okay, maybe they can't. I don't know. I mean, I think they could. I just think it's so hard for me to, I guess, like, guide them along that path of like, every time I mention something is not well, you guys don't need to freak out. Like, I am not dying if, like, I sneeze once.

Like, you don't need to call me every two hours. If I'm having a bad day, it's fine. I don't know. So now I'm confused for two reasons. The first is you say, what do I say to them? And because you seem to have a really good answer. And the second thing is you say, I should know better. And it sounds like you absolutely fine do.

You're spot on. Right? You need to sit with them and teach them because you are an adult, actually. That is the statement of an adult. Is in recognizing that like you need to explain to your parents and say like, and so now I can give you some language around this. Okay. So take notes.

so when I tell you that I'm unhappy or I cry what do you guys think is going on and what do you think you have to do about it and just explore that with them which is going to be a really confusing question like I had a two and a half hour conversation with my mom the other day about like some really basic stuff about like understanding your insides

because she just doesn't like I'm assuming that Indian Moroccan culture because I understand a little bit about Moroccan culture are like pretty similar in terms of you have your option of stem field no boys in the house you could also perhaps be a lawyer if you want to be a little bit edgy yeah so so in our case it wasn't edgy my dad said i have an older brother and um he told he said that one of y'all is going to be a doctor and one of y'all is going to be a lawyer and then what i used to say in my med school interviews and they're like why do you want to be a doctor like what brings you here and i would say

I tell them that my dad told me that one of y'all has to be a doctor and one of y'all has to be a lawyer. And my brother's older and he got to choose first and he went to law school. So here I am. Yeah. And so talk to them about, you know, what do they think? And like, and then ask them explicitly, like, some are you, and I think you should share like everything that you're sharing with us, right? which is that you sometimes hesitate to share things with them because of how much it hurt them. Tell them that.

And so, like, what do you guys think about that? And then, like, is it okay for me to, like, tell you that I'm not doing okay? And, like, I know it hurts you, but, like, I'm going to be okay. Like, I'm not so worried about it. Oh, you know how, like, how they say if you have a child, you shouldn't be, overly protective of them, especially when they're like super, super young and be too scared of them getting sick because the only way you build your immune system is by getting sick every now and then when you're young. I feel like I guess that's what happened to me in terms of just like general

life experiences. Absolutely. Beautifully pointed. And am I not supposed to be, am I supposed to be not doing that with my kids? Am I supposed to be saying that what you said is wrong? No, no, no, no. No, I'm just trying to. Wait, what? I was just thinking, am I raising my kids wrong. Oh, I don't know how you're raising your kids. I don't know either. It's really confusing. It's okay. You'll find out in like 10 of 20 years. Don't worry about it. Absolutely. That's the approach I'm taking, right? Yeah. I guess maybe that's how I see it. Yeah, absolutely. I think it makes sense. I think you are overly protected. And by overly protected, I think what you've been protected from or what you've been

insulated against us to a certain degree, your own feelings and emotional expression. And so you'll be thrilled. You can tell your mom, I'm on, that, you know, I spoke with a guy who happens to be a psychiatrist. And he said, he said, I was just like all of the middle-aged, you know, Middle Eastern and or South Asian or Asian attorneys. I'm just like them. And that I don't know how to emotionally express myself or connect with you guys on an emotional level and I'm also very financially and professionally successful. And I'm deeply unhappy. I mean, I don't think you're deeply unhappy.

But I think you've got to connect. And this goes back to loneliness. Like, I don't understand, you know, I think you, speaking of things that you've missed out on and things that you owe yourself, I don't, I don't believe that you need to have an NPC relationship with your parents. Like, that's like, I mean, it sounds like you're alone from them. You know, they're, they're NPCs. and you have scripted interactions with them.

It's not like, you know, it's like you walk up to them and it's like, take your pick. I am doing well. And then she responds with, when are you going to college? And then it's like, it's like literally like a fucking NPC. You go up to them and then you right click them. And then they say like, Amon, like, what do you think about going to college next semester? And you know, like in games, you can have dialogue with people. You can have the same fucking dialogue over and over and over again.

And those are the relationships we have with our parents. I do want to say though that like I also feel bad because it's not it's not entirely their fault I also feel like and I mean whatever it's about fault also it just makes me really sad because um like uh I left Canada three years ago and I moved out from home at 18 for university anyways But I also feel like it's exponentially more difficult to do these kinds of things with that considered and with like language barrier to some extent because I feel like that kind of thing would translate so much better in person. And I was actually hoping to, I was planning on visiting them a week before the quarantine started. And I was hoping to like perhaps get to tackle certain issues.

but then that didn't really get to happen either. And I, like, I can't tell whether I'm, like, putting it off by wanting to do it in person or if, like, I really think that that would make a difference. But I guess it's just something that I feel has also stunted my ability to do that with them. Sure. Do you meditate? Yes. I was doing really good up until two weeks ago, and then I started crying a lot. There might be a connection. There might be a connection.

You're right. So, Lamon, I think you're very spiritually adapt. I think you have a mind that's, that's well designed

for spiritual exploration. So, and I really would recommend that you continue to, not necessarily that you have to meditate, but I think, so a couple of things.

So you're, now we talk about karma, familiar with karma, karma, karma, karma. Yeah, could you just define it yourself? Sure.

So I know. So, So when I look at you, I see a certain, like you were dealt a certain hand in life. And I think that the hand that you were dealt is sort of like geared towards spiritual growth. And there are a couple of things that I look for and people who are like prone towards kind of spirituality. And everyone is prone to their own kind of spirituality. I think you're prone to a very particular kind. That's actually like Buddha's.

Because I think you have a lot of the struggles that he had, like literally, like literally. Right. So if we think about what worked for him, like he, if we think about, you know, his starting position in a particular game, like your starting position is actually somewhat similar. And so his solutions may apply. Like, you know, if you, I don't know what kind of games you play, but if you have a particular start, then there's like a particular strategy that's like optimized for, you know, winning. And so I think that the other thing is you're very self-reflective. I don't know if you've done therapy or other kinds of activities where you kind of do this kind of stuff. but your ability to catch your thoughts and notice what you're doing. For example, when you said, I don't know if that's like me just making excuses for myself,

that I want to do this in person and I want it to be perfection. Maybe that's my perfectionism. That amount of self-reflectiveness, I think, is very helpful. For a particular kind of spiritual growth, which is the kind that I like, which is not so much about God or devotion or anything like that. It's really about understanding, like, how you work. It's actually a system of engineering. It's not like religion.

I'm serious. So, I mean, what I think about it as, it's like mechanisms of the mind. And in your case, you have a particular thing called a sumscar. A sumscar is like sort of a ball of undigested emotion or like a background program that's kind of running in your mind that flagellates you for not being good enough,

that drives you forward. But at the same time, it's just like a process that's running on its own. And like, you know, processes that are running on their own can be like good for our computer. But then also there are sometimes where we need like control, all delete and like end task and a filthy Mac. user, but...

Oh, no. Okay, thank God. Disgusting. Also an eternal struggle between myself and my wife. But anyway, so I think you've got this thing, right? And I think you're able to see it, like you're able to see

the should. And so I think that's good. And I would just recommend that you continue pursuing spirituality in like a pretty concrete way because that's what you like to do. And really kind of focus. on this stuff because I think you'll get a lot of yield out of it. But in terms of, you know, should it be done better in person?

I think, yeah. Like, I think could you be avoiding? Absolutely. But I think it also, you know, being able to hug, I don't know if you hug your parents, but. Of course. I mean, some brown people don't. Right? Some Asian people don't.

Yeah. So, yeah. So like I, for example, never, my parents never kissed me. like it's weird like like I had to like like when I was 18 or 19 I was like I'm going to start kissing my mom on on the head because I didn't know what to do and and now I'm all about the kissing with my kids but anyway so so I think that you know physical distance may actually be important and you just have to decide like this is also where I think you're trying to set up the perfect conversation which now that's a problem right because like you shouldn't let person to get in the way of like starting a conversation. Just doing it. Yeah. And so if you want to do it, but that too is like karma.

So this is like, this is your karma. So I didn't even explain what karma is. But you know, karma is kind of your circumstances is one way to think about it. And the way that I think about it is it's really just the principle of cause and effect. So like, you know, if I, um, so if I walk into a bathroom that's flooded, that is a circumstance. but at the same time, if I turn my bathtub on and, you know, put the stopper in and let it fill up and overflow, like that circumstance is created by something that I did. So now your karma, like COVID is part of your karma because it's a circumstance.

It's something in the external environment. It's not something that you control. And at the same time, like karma is kind of tricky because it's sort of like you can shape your environment over time. So you do control your environment to a certain degree. But you also don't control your environment to a certain degree. And for you to think a little bit about like, Like right now, so you can't have that conversation during COVID.

So maybe there's some kind of, so now do you want to have it or are you not going to have it? Yeah, I'm really unsure. Yeah. So I think think about it. How are we doing in terms of untangling, by the way? I think good. I'm crying a bit less. So I want to assume good.

But in general, I mean, going into this conversation, has again being reflective. I feel like most of my life, I've been so busy being grateful for my parents and the fact that they've, for the most part, been very loving and supportive, that I would have never even thought that anything in regards to my relationship with them

would be unhealthy. I guess I just put it upon myself to just... deal with the quirks, I don't know. Yeah. It's a good way to put it. So it's nice to, I guess, delve into that. Yeah, I mean, so dealing with the quirks is interacting with an NPC. Yeah.

I mean, kind of. Like, you accept them as who they are. Like, if you really want to understand acceptance, think about the way that you approach an NPC. Because they're not going to change, right? And you just accept them for who they are. As good of an example as that is, that makes you feel so bad. Yeah. Yeah.

But also, like, it was, I thought I was doing it for them, you know? You are doing it for them, and that happens to be the wrong way to do it. Yeah, probably. Because, like, the whole point is that, like, you should do things for them and they should do things for you. But your relationship with them is one-sided, and, like, that's a problem. And I can assure you as a parent. that like, you know, I want a two-sided relationship with my kids. Like, that's what they want.

Yeah. And just think about how happy they're going to be when you share with them that you're unhappy and then you share with them that you're happy, right? And they want to help you get there. Anyway, is there something like in terms of the tangled ball that we kind of didn't get to or something that you feel like is left unaddressed?

I'm sure. Could I go to the bathroom milk like that? Yeah, sure. Thank you. I guess we'll check, quick chat while we're waiting. Or maybe I should go pee-2. Okay. No, I don't really like beer.

I don't know drinking. I got to eat something first. What is a cow in your own, right, Jen? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I'm going to get food. I like talking to him on. She's cool.

Boy, is she hard on herself. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, not while I'm talking to her, right? That's, like, really disrespectful, guys. I don't mind. I'm going to drink on stream, but like, it's not fair to her. Like, you think about it. Like, if you guys came on stream, like, would you want me to be lucid or would you want me to be in-hit, like, you know, inundated?

So it's not that I don't mind being festive, but I, you know, let's think about why we do this, right? So the stream isn't about, I know it's bizarre. It's not about entertainment, right? So the one way, the thing that screws me is when I start thinking about anything except what the stream is actually for. And the stream is to help the person that we're talking to. Nothing more, nothing less. And anything else that happens in terms of donations and stuff, which is amazing and I'm grateful for, don't get me wrong.

But like, that's not why we do it, right? You guys should donate and support us because of what we do with the person that we're talking to. and also donate because you think it's entertaining. Because we'll do that from time of time. But let's not forget what our primary part of mind is to help the person there. Because when we help that person, like, think about it, right? Because it's AOE healing. So if I, like, you know, if I miscast to heal, like, not only does it not help that person,

but then it, like, doesn't help any of you guys. Like, I don't know how anyone has helped by me being a drunken asshole on stream. Entertain, sure. That's something that we're willing to do. And sometimes it's important to laugh. But like how many of you guys have relationships with your parents where you guys treat them like NPCs? And the second thing is where they treat you like an NPC. Right?

We haven't even gotten there. But like the other thing is like, I mean, I was just getting on a roll talking to myself, which I sometimes do. But the other thing, which is kind of tricky here is that, you know, you learn how to treat them like NPCs in a particular way. Like, because that's how they treat you. Because they didn't see Yaman, they saw pokey. engineering major. In a couple of years, it's going to be, I mean, I don't know what your relationship status is,

but like, it's going to go from no boys to like, why aren't you married yet? Like, that's what happens. Like, one day. Flip a switch. Yeah. And you're 23, so you may be a bit young, but I give it one to two years.

And if it hasn't started and you don't have a boyfriend, then they're going to. And it's not like a boyfriend. It's like single now. Okay, marriage when, child when. Yep. Yeah. See, that's an NPC.

It's like when you go to the NPC and it's like you're like looking like you're like open the vendor like, you know, the vendor menu and it's like, where's the child? Where's the marriage? Like I like one of those please. Like can you, you know, that dialogue option is like not like they're like clicking the dialogue with when are you married? And then they like look at your response and your response is no. And they're like, no, no. I'm looking for the yes response. They're waiting for the response to transition.

Yeah. It's like it's like you're trying to unlock a higher tier of response from the NPC. It's like, what do we have to do? to get Iman to say yes Exactly It's like I have to go complete this quest Find Moroccan lawyer Check

Bring Moroccan lawyer to Amon Check Amon we want you to come visit You go home There's some random dude there He seems awkward And then at the end of it And at the end of it

Quest failed Yeah You go to the NPC and you're like Okay are you married yet And they're like oh fuck we failed the quest So you know what you do when you fail a quest, right? And wow, is you go and you abandon it and you pick it up again. And they're like, hey, I'm on, you should come home for, you know, whatever.

You come home. Now, it's not Moroccan lawyer. It's Moroccan doctor. Exactly. They're like, let's try Moroccan doctor. Yeah. And they're going to keep doing it because they're treating you like an NPC. It's unfortunate, right?

We don't treat people as caricatures. Anyway, I was just talking to Twitter chat. It's okay. I go on long rants to Twitch chat as well. Cool. Or Vangens, I guess. So, Iman, help me understand a little bit about, like, you know, I'm kind of, I'm not sure whether, I'm not sure where to go from here. I'm happy to continue talking if you want to, I'm happy to kind of summarize or if you have questions or things like that. Yeah.

I think there's some other things that maybe we could delve into a little bit. Okay. Namely, especially as of late, and I don't know exactly why as of late, but I feel like I have a lot of, I feel very jaded. And I feel like I, what? Yeah, I mean, yeah. Oh, and I feel like I have a lot of pent up resentment in regards to, like, I don't want to say, like streaming because streaming isn't what bothers me but um a lot of the things that I've come of streaming okay and I think it's resulted the jadedness in me feeling very defensive

okay I didn't but I know we'll have to you know unload that one step at a time yeah no no so so defensive. So, you know, sometimes I can be a real asshole on stream. I didn't mean to like literally laugh in your face when you said jaded because I just like, I was like, what the fuck do you think you're like talking about? Yeah. Sorry. When I said that, it was because I was referring to, I guess, another aspect of my life.

Yeah, no, no, I get it. But like, this is the thing, right? This is the background process. This is, you don't just whip yourself in one dimension. This is the shoulds. Because like when you live a life of shoulds, you're going to be. resentful. Like, so this is a, okay. Okay. So funny. At this point, it sounds like a disease. You have a really bad case of the should. It absolutely is a disease. There's,

you have anything you could prescribe? Yes, yes. That's what I do as I prescribe things for the case of the shoulds. I'm writing a couple of books and one of them, like one of the, one of the chapters is a case of the should of what it could is. I call it like, I talk about it like it's a disease because it fucking is. Okay. So like first thing to understand is like, so let's think about where Jaden comes from, okay? So anytime you have a case of the shoulds, you end up with one or two things. Shame or resentment. If you fill, if you give into the shoulds and you accomplish what you should do, you end up with resentment. And if you don't accomplish what you should do, you end up with shame. Right. And you've got a healthy dose of both. Like you feel guilty for not doing it. And once the should is there, you're, you're, you're, you're.

You're stuck with one of those. Like, I hate to break it to you. But that's why I think about it as a disease. Because that's the only thing that can happen. Because either you sacrifice of yourself and then you end up resenting. Right? Like, I should have a kid. That's going to lead to jaded.

Yeah. Right? All of the things that we're forced to do in life or that we don't do of our own. Because, see, a should is not a sacrifice. Should and sacrifice are very different things. Sacrifice is a choice. should is like a pressure. And so the second that,

and so I think the thing is you're going to have more resentment. And when you say jaded, what I hear is resentment. Because you gave of yourself something that you did not want to and you like are frustrated about that. You were pushed into giving. I don't know how much of this applies. Could be completely wrong.

I don't know. But so like when you said jaded, I was like, you damn right. right like it's not something new it's it's that somewhere along there i mean so this is my hypothesis is that somewhere in there that jadedness that resentment comes from doing things that you actually did not want to do and you mentioned something about streaming and i think this is a great example of like something that on the one hand you do want to do something that you recognize is your karma something that you recognize is fun and is something that you don't want to do in some ways

or that you don't want a piece of it But you force yourself to take that piece of it, maybe because you don't know how not to, or maybe because it's worth it. But there's a part of me that says, I don't want this. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm stuck in that place. Yeah. And so we can talk more about that.

But like, absolutely. And then you feel defensive and we can talk about what defensive is. So give me more. And this is the tricky thing. Now what I'm going to ask you to do, I'm on, is don't give me, even though they're wonderful. Don't give me your conclusions. Give me raw data. Right.

And I know you gave a wonderful summary. so that was fantastic because that got me started and I have a framework, but maybe you've biased me in some way and maybe I already think I know the answer and maybe that's a mistake. So tell me, what do you mean by jaded? I think a lot of the stuff that has occurred, especially

over the last two years, has left me jaded both via the ways people have treated me, people that I know, as well as like randoms online.

How have you been treated? dab, dab, dab, dab. So many people, I just feel so like used and abused, the amount of people that will like be so nice to me and then ask me for help

and behind closed doors. As you know, whether it's selfish or not, I really enjoy being a use to others. I get a lot of validation from that and I feel like it's good for everyone. But then like at any given opportunity, we'll throw my name under the bus or make me the butt of a joke or will what's the word? Not appeal to. Anyways, well, I guess like appeal to or take advantage of the mountains of people that are ready to hate me at any moment. And then I think it also makes me really jaded to know that.

Jaded to know what? That regardless of like how someone will treat me privately, the public aspect of that is so different because there's business involved. That sounds fucked up. Yeah. I agree. Well, like, I don't want to say I agree because it's just my feelings, but. And like... There you go, invalidating him on again.

I don't know. I'm just so used to people invalidating me that I just start doing it to myself all the fucking time. Yeah. It's got to change, my friend. Because you're allowed to be resentful. Oh. Okay. Thank you. That's so nice. Just where we've got you to drop an F-bomb. Oh, I'm so sorry.

No, no, I'm glad. I think it's a sign of progress. A-plus. Yeah, and there's like two sides of it. There's like people where I feel it's like manipulative in the sense that like they want to be on my good side privately, but then publicly. They want to appeal to the people that hate me as well. And I've literally had very popular people say very rude things about me, have their viewers harass me.

And then that very same evening or next day, they DM me being all nice or asking for help or whatever it is. And that is such a freaking brain boom for me because, like, my reflex is like if someone asks me something, I want to respond. I want to be nice. I want to like do the right thing. That's what like I should do and that's like what I enjoy doing. But then also having to like calculate wait, but this this person like has no genuine care for me. Like they just want to say stuff that's going to get like clipped and shipped or have people laugh at or ridicule me or whatever it is. Like they want their cake and they want to eat it too.

And then there's the flip side. Sorry. Where did, where do you get your idea of what the right thing to do? Where did you get the idea that helping people is the right thing to do? Well, to be fair, like it makes me feel good and I'm being helpful to someone else. So it just feels like the right thing to do. Can I tell you a story? Sure.

So I think we have a really messed up view of right and wrong. So this is a train wreck of a story because I use Sanskrit names and it's hard for people to follow. So there was a long time ago in India and I butcher the story every time. I'm going to try to keep it quick because I really want to get you talking again and hear what you have to say. But I just want to, I just can't help myself because this infuriates me. I like your stories. So there was a king in India a couple thousand years ago and he has a couple of kids. and his eldest son is blind.

And then he has another child who's younger, is also a boy, but is not blind. And so generally speaking, in ancient India, you know, the throne passes. I was going to say, because people call you loyalty, so I was like, maybe the supplies do you have to make something? Twitch Royals.

So pay attention. So, so, you know, generally speaking, what would happen is the throne would pass to the eldest son, but his eldest son is blind. So the king is kind of trying to figure out. He's like, what should I do? So it ends up saying, you know, ultimately concluding that the kingdom is best served by a king

who can see because they would go into battle on chariots and archery was a big part of warfare. And you have to be an archer. And like, I know that there's an anime here or there where you have blind archers, but for the most part, it's like an anime thing. It's not a real thing. Yeah. So he, he, you know, passes over his first. son and passes the throne to his second son.

And everyone's kind of okay with that. Eldous son is somewhat resentful because he felt like he deserved it or he was entitled to it. And we'll see if deserving or being entitled to certain things is part of what you experience. And then like things are actually okay though because, you know, eldest son can't really raise an army and fight a war because he's fucking blind. So then, you know, so the king who's the younger brother, he has children.

And then the blind, he's also kind of a king, the blind prince or whatever, has children as well. And then the blind king's children are very resentful. Because they felt like they got a bad beat and they felt like my father should have been king. And so I should have been king. But he got robbed and I'm getting robbed. So they were filled with jealousy.

And so what happens is that, so there are two sets of, of cousins. One of the sets of cousins is called the Bondovas. They're sort of the good guys. They're the people who are actually kings. And then the bad guys are the Khoravas, and they're the jealous people. And so what happens is they're jealous for a while, and they actually try to kill their cousins here or there. And then eventually what they do is they come up with this plan to gamble. Because they know that the eldest son of the Bandavas has a weakness that he can't turn things down. So if they're like, hey, gamble? Yeah. Okay. So they're like, what we're going to do is we're going to invite the guy who actually rules the kingdom over for a gambling night. And then

we'll like get him to bet. Gambled throne, absolutely. So that's what they do. And they kind of, they don't really cheat per se, but they've got someone on their side who's like really good at gambling. So he kind of advises them. And they end up, the good guys end up gambling away the kingdom. Because that guy's a fucking dumbass. He's supposed to be a hero. He's a fucking dumbass. And then eventually what happens is that one of the Pondava's advisor sort of steps in, he says, instead of gambling away the kingdom, why don't we put some conditions on it? And what you can say is that if you guys win this hand, you guys get to rule the kingdom for 13 years. But after those 13 years, we get the kingdom back.

And during those 13 years, you have to go incognito. And if they find you, and they can discover where you are, it resets the clock. So you basically have to go incognito mode for 13 years. And if you can successfully hide for 13 years, you get to come back and you get to take back the kingdom. And so everyone agrees to this before the bet. The bet happens. They end up losing.

They lose the kingdom. They go into hiding. 13 years pass. The Korovas try to find the bondovas so that they can reset the timer, but they fail. And then 13 years are over. Bondovas come back and they say to the Korova's. Can I has my throne back, please? And what do the Goroa say?

Did they have to say, yeah? They say, no. They say, fuck you. So it's ours now. It's mine. But he did such a good job hiding. Yeah, they broke, oh, yeah, Amon. They broke the rules. They were nice to you in private and meet to you in public.

And what did you say? You said, yeah, sure, take it. Right? you can have the best of me and you can treat me like shit anyway we'll get there in a second so then the bond of us are like okay you kind of have a fair argument right like because your dad was the older brother

and so like it is you did kind of get robbed and it's not your fault he's blind so let's do havesies you guys take half the kingdom we'll take half the kingdom and what do the gorovs say they probably say fuck you we'll just take the whole thing because we have it already see imamon see imam's learning

Fool me one. Same one. Yeah. Fuck you. So they say, fuck you. And the bond of us say, okay, fine. We can live with that because we're good people, Amon. They're good people.

They're givers. They're helpers. Just like you. They're helpers. Right? And other people can be assholes, but we're going to be nice to them. And so they say, fine. Give us, we're five brothers.

And it's our Dharma. It's our duty to rule because we're kings. Right. We're princes. We're royalty. I should rule something. So give us five villages. You guys take the rest.

Give us each one village so that we can do what we were born on this earth to do, which is to rule and govern. And y'all can have 95% of the kingdom. Just give us 5%. What do the Gora must say? I feel like at that point they just say, sure, whatever, but I don't know. Yeah. Maybe they also still say fuck you.

Absolutely. Right? Because that's how people are. They say fuck you. That's so terrible. It is. And it leaves me. feeling so jaded that people can do that and get away scot-free.

Jaded. Is that how you feel? And they probably feel, I don't know, a word worse than jaded. Yeah, right? So it's almost like the story is relevant to your situation, bizarre. So then the panovas say like they're kind of confused and then there's a guy named Krishna. He was the guy who advised 13-year-old. condition, by the way. So he says, after, like, this is unacceptable. You guys can't accept this answer. So Krishna says, you have to fight. Like, it's, it's not acceptable. Like, you can't, if someone promises you something, like being a giving person is one thing. Like, it's one thing to

say that you were owed something and accept less. And it's another thing to even accept way less. But at some point, you have to draw your line in the sand and being a good person is not the right thing to do. I don't know where to draw about one. Sorry, go on. Yeah, absolutely. I get that. So that's what we're going to try to teach you how to do.

And then the story sort of continues. And on the eve of battle, so they, like, marshal their troops and they get everyone together on the eve of battle. One of the brothers is looking across at these people who are nice to him when they DM him. People who are his friends and his teachers. And people that he cares about and respect. and he truly believes her friends.

And he says, you know what? It's not fucking worth it. Like, it is not worth it to kill these people that I care about in my friends for the sake of, like, what you call justice. He says, like, I just don't want to, like, it's not worth it to actually shoot an arrow and kill that guy. He can be an asshole, but I don't want to kill him. And then Krishna says, no, you have to fight.

It's absolutely worth it. Because it's not about, like, being a nice guy. like life is about doing your Dharma, doing your duty. And in this case, your duty is not to be a nice guy. And somewhere along the way we've conflated being a nice guy with doing your duty, right? And you did it with your parents. Your duty to them is not to protect them. That's the nice thing to do, absolutely.

Because, like, how is it not the right thing to do to protect your parents? But it's not your Dharma. It's not your duty. You don't owe them niceness. You owe them honesty. and you owe them the chance to make your life better, even if it hurts them. So there's a point where you've got to draw your line in the sand.

And being nice is not the right thing. You've got to do what's right. And if people don't meet you right, I'm not saying like you burn all bridges because I'm not a fan of that, right? So like my road tends to be communication, not, you know, fire and brimstone. But I've also been severely burned that way too.

burned in what way? Like, even if someone, like, if I try to speak to someone about an issue privately, some people will out that. Some people will then judge me for trying to resolve something privately. It just feels like whether I respond, don't respond. It doesn't matter what I do, it will be twisted and used against me to make me look like. Do you feel powerless? You sound powerless in this situation.

What I'm hearing from me more than anything else is that you don't have any kind of agency. Like, no matter what you do, you get fucked. Yes. That sounds awful. I don't know. I feel bad saying that because, like... Go ahead. Say the word.

I don't like... I don't want to, like, play victim, like, both because I'm not perfect and because I have privilege. But that is how... You shouldn't be complaining, Amon. Isn't that what you're saying? Yeah. Get in the closet.

Good. Now you're learning. Get in the fucking closet. Yeah, Amon, you're not allowed to have feelings. Like, who the fuck do you think you are? Having feelings? Being hurt by people? You're Twitch royalty.

Who the fuck told you you get to have feelings? And this is the crazy thing about Twitch, right? Like this is what people don't understand is that people look at you and they look at streamers and they look at the audience and they think that there's a power dynamic between these two people.

That one of these people is stronger than the other. The whole fucking point of Twitch is that we're all equal, right? Like what we see here is like a terrible power dynamic because how do you even fight against them? They're formless. They're infinite number. And you're

half a person because half of you's in the closet. Yeah. Like, what's the real power? Like, if the internet is mad at you, I learned this the hard way. When I did an open Q&A on my Discord live on stream and boy, did I get fucked. Really? Yeah, it was actually a hilarious experience. But, like, there were 300 people in the Discord chat and we were just talking and I was

answering questions. And one guy decides that he's going to start dropping N-bombs. Yeah. There's always one guy. And he just doesn't say anything except for the N word over and over and over again. And he says it in a way. I mean, like there's a small part of me that can't blame the guy because, you know, I appreciated what he was doing. He's got an opportunity. Yeah, I know.

It's like, you know, strike while the iron is hot. And he said it like chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chagga, chagga. Yeah, yeah. So he grabbed. So he, and so there was a part of me that thought it was hilarious. Like I can't, you know, if I saw that on LSF, I would have laughed. So I can't blame the guy. But like that's like there's just no way that like an individual person can fight against the multitudes.

Like you just can't like you can't win against Reddit. You can be you can be loved by Reddit and you can be loved by Twitch, but you can't win against them. Right. It's like a hydro. Like you chop off one head. Like that's like what I'm hearing from you is the story of the hybrid. You chop off one head and grows two more. you argue with someone on Reddit and it's like boy there are two people downboating you for everyone like like it's it's amazing it's like it's like every villain story brought to life anything you send them way like only makes them stronger ima

yeah any kind of toxic even this even this i worry feels like giving people ammo for whatever it may be yeah so i'm gonna try to say something absolutely crazy which is give them as much ammo as they want to because whether that ammo lands or not is on you. They can shoot, but it's your choice whether you get hit. They can send you venom and they can send you toxicity. And by the way, maybe this is famous last words, right? Because maybe I don't know, because I've never been on the bad end. I mean, people criticize me and stuff, but like I don't think it's been anywhere near what a lot of, and I'm grateful for that. Please don't, please don't kill me. But, you know, it's easy for me to say, so I acknowledge that. But I do believe that, like, the funny thing is that, like, I think that I do a lot of, I mean, I think the cool thing, and what I mean by give them

ammo is that I think that Twitch isn't evil, right? Like, sure, it's this hydro, but, like, sometimes the hydro currency. And that's actually what I've discovered in the month of May is, like, people are donating, like, thousands of dollars. The hydra's, like, amazing and it's powerful, but it's not evil. It's just, like, Twitch can be a force of good and power and support. And I think That's why you're successful because it's not, if you think about like, you know, the hydra has a lot more heads that are licking you than it does that are like biting you. That's true. You know, and sometimes it's easy to forget that. It's so easy to forget that.

And that comes down to attachment and a couple of other things. But I mean, I don't think that you should let, you know, if it's like, if it's being a bad hydra, you've got to smack it on the nose and it's bad hydra. that you should feel and I want you to feel empowered to say things to speak your truth and like you know if the consequences happen the consequences happen you know it's kind of like sometimes you got to be you know tank man is anyway so there's like this very famous photo from tenneman square of like a dude with a grocery bag standing in front of a line of tanks and and anyway if you it's it's old now But like, there's just, there's like, it's, you've probably seen the same sentiment can be found in take your pick of anime of when the underdog stands up.

And you just got to, you know, you got to hold your line sometimes. And like if the tanks roll over you, they roll over you. Like, I'm not saying, like, because you are powerless. Like, you can't, you can't stop a line of tanks with a human body. But like, you know, that shouldn't stop you from speaking your truth. I'm sorry, I've been talking for a while. No, it's okay. You know, so there's a part of me that says, like, if people are mean to you in private,

then you should let them know that it's hurtful. And if they want to air that dirty laundry, then, like, then you're done with them. That feels like so much unnecessary drama. I've gone to the point where it's just, I just, I avoid where I am aware enough to avoid. What does that mean? if I feel a situation even where I am wronged and perhaps I should tell someone like why are you messaging me like this when you were just talking shit however long ago I don't even feel like I should do that because that's like an open invitation to perhaps creating more drama And so it's like, maybe I will just have no friends.

And so I have no expectations of anyone. That's a sad way to live life. Yeah, but maybe I will get hurt less that way. You will get hurt less. But I understand. It's like, it's better to have loved than not to have loved at all. You should take the risk. No, no, no, but let's not accept that, right?

Like, let's make it, let's study that. Let's be scientific. a choice. And I don't think, I mean, I'm with you that, you know, I personally believe it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. But it's easy for me to say that because I'm really lost. I started out with nothing. And it's different. Like, I'm in a different place because I had nothing for a long time. And then I've gained a lot. And I don't really know what it's like to lose. You know, I was like, there's a difference between losing your money and like being broke from the get-go.

And so I don't really know what it's like to lose. Like even on Twitch, like I'm still in the honeymoon phase, I think. Of, you know, people have- Savor it. I'm just ignorant. Like, I just don't know. Like, I don't know. You know, that's what everyone tells.

All the boomers tell me like you do. Savor it. Who's the boomer now? Which boomer? But, yeah, I mean, I don't know. So I think, you know, you can, try that, right? Like, you can try ignoring them. You can try not being connected to them. And then there's something in me that says that, like, actually, if we, if we challenge people

in the right way and we sort of disarm their defensiveness, that maybe they can grow. And, like, I don't know, I'm just, like, I don't know what would happen because you say it sounds like when you take issue with them, they, like, air it publicly and it creates more drama. Sometimes, yeah. And what about the other times? Sometimes they react very defensively. I think also because, like, I don't know. It's like behind my back, it's easy to make fun of me,

but directly to me, perhaps they're intimidated on some level. And if I come to them with like, oh, like, this thing is not okay, they'll just be very defensive, be mad, make a bigger deal out of it privately and publicly, whatever it is. It's going all sorts of ways and the only times that ever like really goes well is if someone is like closer to me or we have a more legitimate baseline friendship as opposed to just like being friends or knowing each other or being on good terms. But actually that brings me to the other point of like kind of being jaded or feeling bad because even though I have a lot of like good friends on Twitch, I never ever feel like anyone would risk standing up for me because it could be

bad for business. And I mean, that's nice and fair when it's just business. But sometimes when you think about it, it kind of sucks mainly because, but like I understand a lot of people just like don't like that's not part of their personality but it is like part of my personality if I ever saw one of my friends being wronged it's just like in me to want to like stand up for them or being like or say like that's not true that's not fair blah blah blah and sometimes feeling like that would never be reciprocated or never really is reciprocated kind of feels bad so kind of like that whole area of my work. Like when it's just me streaming to my audience and like having a good like a good time, like that's fine. But then everything past that feels like such a headache. And that's just the tip of

the iceberg, honestly. Can I think for a second? Of course. Take all the time you want. I have no plans. This is my plan. Man, this is complicated. Do you say that often during these kinds of session? I don't know. I don't know. I try not to pay attention to myself. If I didn't say it often, what does that mean for you? I don't know. I guess you sounded taken aback or surprised or something. I guess it does not mean much. It is what it is. It is what it is. I think it means something. Maybe it validates my situation. to some extent? I think so.

That feels nice. Do I say validating things often? I have not kept track. I think you are not trying to tip the scales in any given way too much. Okay. But this feels like a nice conversation, not paying attention to how validating it may or may not be. I just feel like it's nice to have a back and forth about things that I don't frequently talk about.

So there are a couple of different things here. And I don't know. So, I want to say if you're a game with it, maybe we can dig into this more later. Just because I tend to need. So the more complicated it is, the more I want to be at 100%. And I don't know how long I can stay at 100%. because I think this could be another. Like, I can't, there's no way that you're going to get,

there's no way that I can put forward my best self over the course of the next hour and a half. That's okay. And at the same time, I think we can definitely start talking about it, but I just, so like there are a couple of different dimensions here. Okay, so the first is that, and this is, I don't mean to make this sound as invalidating as it, is it's going to come across, but why do you care, right?

Like, what's your skin in the game? Like, what is it about the drama and the things that are said on Reddit and the things that are said about you and not to your face that bother you? So there's something about ego and identity and respect and whether that respect comes from the outside or whether it comes from the inside. Like you're worth and where on the axis of like within Iman and outside of Iman it comes from. And I think unfortunately, like you being Moroccan doesn't really help with this. And like I know that basically tiger parents and Indian parents because it is like, you know, They do tell you, right? Oh, so-and-so is getting married.

Right? Like, this is happening. This is happening. This is happening. So we're kind of ingrained. And you don't have, I mean, you can be Caucasian or Hispanic or whatever. It just depends on what kind of parents you are. But culturally, like at least South Asian, East Asian and sort of like Middle Eastern cultures are very, very big into image.

And that respect is something that can be like measured with like a measuring stick. Right. It's like, not only is that person a doctor. it's like they tell me which school he went to and like my terror I mean I tell my mom you know my mom doesn't thankfully she doesn't make that mistake

so she doesn't talk about me which is great right so and and so I think the first thing is about like where your attachment to this whole issue so I think there's there's salvation if you become unattached from it

yeah yeah right so that's one option but then there are a couple of other things because I just don't think it's like you know it's a shitty answer to say just care less. Mm-hmm. Like,

so, so like while I think that that's true, I don't think that that's like sufficient or we're not anywhere near there yet. Because not caring means that you have strength coming from in here and I just don't think you have that. Mm-hmm. And that kind of goes back. Yeah,

go ahead. So what we were saying before, which is my lack of time being able to develop a sort of identity. That's kind of how I've related the two, which is just like. The way to not care about what people think is just to like be confident enough in yourself. Absolutely. Right. So there's an issue. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think the other thing is when we talk about defensiveness, like that's the ego, right? Like so when someone gets defensive, that's their ego activating.

That's them sense of like wanting to fight back. I think part of what you're running into is that you activate the egos of other people because they know they did something wrong. And then very few people have the wherewithal to like recognize when their ego is active and that the words that are coming out of their mouth are by definition wrong because their mind is butt hurt and the more but hurt you are the more incorrect things you're going to think and the more incorrect things you're going to say but that's not something that they teach us that when your ego is active that's you being hurt and then like anything that comes afterward you know so my kid at four in the morning came and slept with me in our bed.

And then she does this thing where she doesn't sleep like in line with us. She either sleeps perpendicularly or she sleeps topsy-turvy. And she just won't stay on a pillow. She just like wants, she just moves around. And then she kicked me in the face at like 4.30 because she's just, she's like hungry and she's like not sleeping well and stuff. And then like, you know, I felt hurt and I wanted to smack her. And like, you know, I want to smack her because you get kicked in the face by like, you know,

an almost three-year-old. It's a reaction. Yeah, it's a reaction. And it's like the hurt is going to lead me to do things that are like not good to do. And I think that's what you're running up against is when you hold someone accountable, they're going to feel hurt and they're going to feel defensive and they're going to attack. And then you feel defensive because you're being attacked and you feel hurt. So like hurt and defensiveness and ego all tie together. And so then there's another issue here, which is like how do you relate to people? Can you actually become better? voicing your feelings. Can you phrase things away in DMs that, and here I'm thinking calculated. Now it's like I'm sort of almost tapping my when I guide people who are or when I talk to people who have like problems

with like corporate boards. Like let's say I'm working with CEO and like the board doesn't like him and something's going on. Like that's what we're kind of getting into. How do you write an email in a way that if someone forwards it because that's going to happen, right? Because it's on paper. And really, yeah. It's like how do you write an email that

can't be taken out of context or protects you from being taken out of context. You know what sucks the most though? Like to the audience, they don't consider that. The fact that if something were to be shown publicly, I mean, like, depending on what it says, that someone would have needed to be extremely calculating. And to some of them, they would consider that, like, being fake. They would need to be very calculating in order to have something be shown publicly and not cause any issue, typically. But then also they want you to be, like, real and never show any sign of, like, being calculating or strategic or what they would deem as, like, disingenuous or fake.

But then that's the very stuff that they accept or think is normal or, like, or think is acceptable. Do you kind of get where I'm coming from? I get, I think I get where you're coming from. So, so more than sucks, that just sounds exhausting to me. Yeah. Like, it's like there's so much work into like each thing that go, like each word. Like, so normal human beings get to talk. Yeah.

Right? Like other people get to DM back and forth, whatever the fuck they want. But you don't get to do that. I just wish I could feel like, like I could. could be worthy of the benefit of the doubt. And I just feel like instead it's the complete opposite. It's like how can we manufacture this to make it look like she is some like devil succubis thing monster that is trying to kill people? I don't know.

What happened in mom? Can you can you tell me what happened? So many things have happened. Nick one. There was this one like for example. this one video that went kind of viral where someone was like talking about like the dark side of Pokeyane and saying oh she's actually a really bad person because of like this and that and they took a lot of clips from my stream and it's amazing what like ominous music and someone delivering lines very well will say prior to very specific cut up

up clips with no context. Not to say that I am perfect or I go about things in a perfect way, but it definitely made me look very bad. And also, just like that in combination with scandals about things that are, like, not in my opinion, like super, super important. So things like that will occur. And then that will make me feel like, oh, every little thing that I say can be like used against me or clipped out of context or whatever it is and like I am not worthy of any sort of benefit of the doubt and then the cherry on top is that almost any time someone has created a massive issue like that for me in my life at some point or other they slide in the DMs with a massive apology like that video even though it amassed I think millions of views

has now been deleted because the guy himself felt like the video like didn't really make sense. It wasn't very fair to me and, you know, but that doesn't delete the hundreds of thousands of shitty things that people have sent to me, said about me, thought about me, or the way in which it has jaded me. So yeah. How do you feel right now? I'm leaking. Why are you leaking? What's coming out? What's leaking?

I guess maybe just like pent up feelings in regards to a lot. I don't know. What feelings? Sadness. It's like I pity myself. You pity yourself. What about you as pitiable? I don't know. Are you not saying because you don't want to provide people with ammo or do you really not know? Oh, I guess just like... I want to say my situation, but it has a lot of upsides as well. See, there it is again. Yeah.

There it is. The pen's in this hand. No, no, no. It should be in this hand. Right? It's subtle. I mean, really, like, I asked the question about ammo for a reason, because I think what you feel, you do not feel as fair to say.

I don't feel like anything is fair. to say. Yeah, that's you pushing him on into the closet. Right. And now we're kind of at a dangerous crossroads because like what you're telling me is actually true. This isn't in your head. And that's why this shit is complicated. Because if you do talk about how you actually feel, people will crucify you. They're waiting. They're out there. What is this bitch complaining about? Right? Or they'll use the C word. yeah she has everything

and I think it's interesting I remember first sort of encountering this with Devin Nash and sort of like we were talking about why people are toxic and I think like you know what I told him and and what I still think I kind of believe

because I remember who I used to hate right because like I felt that too being 25 years old and you know, have nothing but 80 medical school rejection letters to show for what you've done in life is not, like, it's like a dark place to be, right?

Not having a job being supported by mommy and daddy. And, you know, like not even, like, not even, like, not even helping people, like not contributing, like, doing nothing. And I think this, this is why, like, mental health is a problem. Because, like, these people don't have, like, these people, they're a hate. doesn't come from evil, right? It's like the hydra. Like the hydra acts like depending on how you treat it. I think the crazy thing is that I think those people are like they're hurting and they don't know what to do with that. It's like they're like children like if you look at children of like who are abused like and there was a great stream with LS about this where he was kind of talking about like he used to act out and be a bad kid and like no one ever asked why.

no one ever like wondered like they just punished him because he thinks that he wasn't supposed to do no one ever asks why these people who who hate you that so with devon's case i think what what happened is like what i hate the most and i even still i feel it today when i see someone doing something that i feel like i'm capable of but haven't done it infuriates me when someone's better than me and they do something that's fine because they're better than it. But when someone's not better than me and they do something that I could have done except I didn't do it and they did do it,

boy, does that make me live it. Because then I don't have an excuse. Then my weaknesses become exposed and then like that's just too painful. They don't know how to sit with that pain. We don't know how to sit with pain. No one ever teaches us. And then they attack.

Actually so often when I see people that are like obsessively attacking me. I just, I mean, there are many emotions, but a big part of me just, like, wants to reach out and be like, are you okay? What's wrong? Yeah. Why are you being this way? And then I realize if I do that, they'll probably just take it as an opportunity to just say worse things directly to me or screenshot it or do whatever. Sure. So, I just become sad. I, you know, I mean, not to go into the lion's den, but like if that happens again, send them my way. I would love to talk to him.

Serious. I told the same thing to Devin. Like, these people don't show up. Fucking infuriates me. I know they're real toxic ass. We've had two incels come on stream. They weren't real incels. We had a guy with a fucking wifu who was like, he's like a normal dude.

It's like, where's the fucked upness? Like, give me like, give me the worst part. Like, I want the drags. Right? they deserve a spot too. And we need to understand them. We need to help them. And make...

Send them my way. Okay. I'll link them here. Yeah. I'm serious. Like the guy who made that video. And so I think there's a couple of other things that I just want to say because it's complicated. There's so many threads here. There's something so devastating about getting an apology in private. I can't tell you the amount of time. and in the moment it feels nice and then long term I realize wait this person got off scot-free

and the amount of resentment do you accept their apology what else am I going to do I mean I very much appreciate it and I think it takes some sort of courage to do that too but it like in the moment I don't realize wait they would never apologize publicly yeah so so you know what else am I going to do? Like that comes back to the Parma. Right? Like, like, sometimes it's okay to say, I don't forgive you. You don't have to, like, no one is entitled to forgiveness. Something that, like, somewhere along the way, we thought that people were entitled to forgiveness. That's not how it works. I think it's more so, like, I expect forgiving them to,

or like accepting the apology to then make that situation go away. But now I've realized, no, there is still some resentment within me. So then that that forgiveness is fake. You do it because you're supposed to do it. You do it because we've been trained to say, it's okay when someone apologizes. Yeah. Right?

And we do it all the time. And like, yeah, it's a real problem. Like, no one is entitled to forgiveness. Like, I know that this place is supposed to be positive, but I really think that, oh, man, does positivity infuriate me? because it's so fucking dishonest. Sometimes, yeah.

I mean, to be fair, really not intentionally. Like all those times I really thought, oh, they apologize. This is very nice. Okay, let's all move on with our lives. Yeah, so I think you're halfway there. So I think forgiving is good, but I think it's got to like be actual forgiveness. Right. So I think that the problem isn't that you're forgiving.

The problem is that you're not saying the rest of it. The problem is, is you saying because it's kind of, you know, because they apologize. And then you said something really brilliant, which is like, it doesn't change the fact that there were hundreds of thousands of messages, thoughts. Like, it doesn't change the damage. It doesn't undo the damage. And somewhere along the way, we started believing that an apology undo the damage.

Like, if I'm driving down the street and I'm walking down the street with one of my kids and a drunk driver drives by and, like, you know, runs over my child and kills them, heaven forbid. You know, I hope that doesn't happen. Knock on wood. And then that person comes to me and says, I'm sorry. And then I say, I forgive you. It doesn't change the fact that, you know, there's some damage has been done. An apology does not wipe away the damage. And the issue here, Amon, is that, like, I think that somewhere along the way we started believing that forgiving wipes away the damage. because true forgiveness is part of that mourning, is part of that acceptance. But even then, I don't think that anyone is owed.

Like, you're owed and I'm sorry, but you're not, they're not owed mercy from you. And somewhere along the way, like, you decided that you were a good person. And this is what a good person does. But like, I think that's your problem. Like, do you deserve an apology? Absolutely. Do they deserve your forgiveness? Absolutely not.

I don't really know how else to go about it. Yeah, that's tricky. Because we're not taught that stuff, right? I mean, I think it starts with speaking your truth and that too is like in the DMs. And you can say, like, I appreciate your apology. But like, I don't know that the damage you've done like has been fixed. Right. I'm glad you feel remorse.

In that situation, people will just be defensive and be like, wow, this isn't good enough for you. And then they'll turn around and be like, Yeah, I tried to apologize, but she was a total bitch about it. You know, it's just, there's no winning. So you can't win, right? So, and this is where I think the biggest problem, this kind of comes back to the beginning of detachment, is that you're playing a game where someone else, you're playing a game that, like, someone else determines who wins and who loses.

Like, this is why you feel powerless because you're playing a game where, like, no matter what you say, someone else can do something with it. And that's exactly the fucking point. That's where detachment comes from. The game is rigged. And yet we continue to play it. True.

We put our feelings and our lives in our sense of self into the hands of others. And then we bitch and whine. But it feels like that's such like an inherent part of the job. It is an inherent. It's not just a part of the job, my friend. it's a part of life.

Yeah. Every time you, like when you were your three, you know, in the third grade and you do your math homework and you like get a grade back. Like that's you giving power to the world. Like at some point very, very quickly, it goes about, it moves away from learning to grades. Happens so fast. No one gives a shit about learning. Everyone gives a shit about grades. It's about the outcome.

It's about the perception. Mm-hmm. Like, when people talk about Moroccan doctors, they say, like, oh, this person is a doctor. Like, everyone talks about that person like they're a doctor. Like, no one talks about the people that they say, right? It's like, there's value that a doctor is greater than other human beings. It's like, it's not greater than other human beings.

Like, just people. Everyone's just people. Everyone does their part. But we elevate some. And it's not about the actual thing in it. It's about the perception of the thing. or the opinions of others. And I mean,

you know, I think like you're just, you're playing a game. Like, and that you feel powerless because you can't wait. Like, how do you win? Mm-hmm. And this is a part of me that...

Really, really fake and throwing whatever you want under the bus, but somehow making it out looking nice. But I don't think that is a way I would be okay with winning. Yeah, that's not winning. I'm just stuck suffering. Yeah. But instead I need to stop caring about.

No, you don't need to stop caring. No, you don't need to do that. Good sigh. What was that? What is that? Tell me, think for a second. Maybe I don't need to do anything. That's exactly right.

You almost let it slip away. You don't need to detach. You need to do absolutely nothing. Just sit with your suffering. let him on out of the closet that's the side you almost let it slip away almost you don't need to do anything because you're perfect right i mean like the rest of the world like haters are going to hate man right we've been saying it for i don't know i don't know who came up with that yeah such a lot you don't need to do anything.

You know, like, here's the thing. So now we're going to wrap up. Okay, I'll teach you to meditate if you want. But you can't. You are what you are, I'm on. And I think part of, I mean, my understanding is that you're, you know, for the most part, pretty authentic. And I don't blame you if you are. But.

And if you think about it, like, you know, what's also been responsible for, like, bringing you to where you are is, like, is actually you. It's not, it's not you. playing the game. And so you are perfect. And what you give to Twitch is actually like what most of Twitch loves. And then like what some people do is they hate what you do because it's authentic. It's like we hate the person who does the thing that we're capable of and we don't do. And like the problem is that like you're a generally positive person. People fucking hate that. They hate that because they're like, I tried to be a positive person and I didn't end up as Twitch royalty. Like, that's not fair. And then they try to tear you down. But you, you can just be what

you are. And, like, that's what you are. And, like, people love you for it, apparently. You know, I think you're awesome. And I don't know if you've been faking it and you're doing this for, you know, if you're farming views or whatever. Like, I have no idea. Like, it came on strike. I think it if I tried, man. I feel like if I was faking things, I should be doing a way better job. I think so, too. I mean, I think, yeah, I don't, and I think the thing is if you really, really stop and you look, the world loves you for who you are. Like, I'm serious.

It's not, it's not, I know I say positive sounding shit, but I'm not trying to say positive sounding shit. I'm just saying, like, can you get to where you are by being who you're not or by being who you are? Because it's way harder to be who you're not than it is to be who you are. I don't think you can get to where you are by being fake. Fake here and there, sure. But like your true colors eventually show up. And Twitch is really good at sniffing out falseness, by the way. Yeah.

I mean, when you stream for so many hours, yeah. Yeah, I mean, so, I mean, I think at the end of the day, you're spot on. It's in that sign. Don't lose that. In that moment, you understood. Like, in that moment, you understood. Because, like, maybe I just don't need to do anything here. Absolutely right.

And then that thing comes up. And it's like, no, you should do this and you should do this and you should do this. No, don't do anything. Just be yourself fucking slack off for a day or two. And people are going to hate you because you spoke out of turn. You're like, yeah, well, you know. Oops. Yeah, exactly.

Oops. And this is the cool thing, right? This is the cool thing is when you say, oops, what does the hydra do? Licks? Absolutely. It's really cool. Like, it's really, really cool. Like people come on here and air their dirty laundry over and over and over again.

And like, what do they get? They get hugs. Yeah. I do really love that aspect of everything. When people see the humanity in you. Yeah. And like, take a chance to see the humanity in yourself. Last thoughts, questions, I feel like I'm wiped. No, my eyeballs are wiped. Let's give up a break. This is very, very nice. I have, you know, see different therapists and stuff, but I've never really gone into this aspect of it,

especially in regards to my family or with someone who, like, understands the space. you know, how often are you going to find a therapist that streams? Just about never. And then you have to go into trying to explain this beast of a thing. So it was very nice talking to someone who gets it. Well, you're very welcome. It was an absolute pleasure for me.

I mean, I love talking to you people. That's making you sound like I was going to say you people. I mean, I love talking to, yeah, but I, you know, I have, oddly enough, I think the reason I say you people is because I identify more with the audience than the streamer. I view myself as Twitch hat personified on stream as opposed to an actual streamer. I don't think about myself. This is true. But anyway, maybe there's a lesson somewhere in there, but my brain is too fried to tease it apart.

Sorry for frying your brain. No, no, no. I mean, I think it's good. Like, you know, I like, I like fried. to it. I like fried food from, you know, it's just I, I've come to acknowledge my limits, but yeah, I really appreciate what you've done. You know, I'm on, just to be honest, I'm, I found myself to be a little bit surprised, but I guess I shouldn't be because, you know, having watched her stream a couple of times, I'm, I never realized you were hanging on to so much. Um,

and I, I feel sad that you've been hanging on to it. Um, and I don't think you deserve that. I think you deserve to be able to have fun. And I think you deserve to be more fully who you show us. I want to think the same thing and feel deserving of that. Well said. See, that's a statement of where you are, right? You didn't say, I should. You said, I want to.

It's an acknowledgement that you're not capable of that. That's actually a step forward. So it makes me very happy to hear you say that. Do you want to meditate or we just kind of are we done? Sure. Oh, shit. I enjoy meditation. Oh, actually, how about you just tell me how?

No, no, no, we're going to do it. I should be able to express myself without giving into that feeling, right? And evoking guilt or anything on your part. No shoulds allowed. Yeah. Ooh. Okay. I'm not quite sure if this, I don't, let me just think for a second.

I try to tailor people's meditation that I teach to both be introductory and also to apply to like what people are dealing with. I'm tempted to teach you chanting, but I want you to do something particular with chanting, if that's okay. You've ever chanted before? I'm chanting. I heard of this, done this. Okay.

All right. Okay, so it's... All right, so... Ome chanting is... Ome is composed of three syllables. Ah, ooh, and mm. Okay? So what I'm going to do is I'm going to chant

over the course of one breath. Start with a, go through ooh, and end up with mm. And so just listen. Okay? So everyone at home should be listening to. Ah! I heard the a...

I don't know if you lagged out. Oh, I lagged out or maybe it's not transmitting. Okay, let's try again. Did you catch that or no? I still only heard the ah. Oh, shit. It's not hearing the ooh. Okay.

Well, there it goes that. I cannot imagine. Okay, so let me do the ooh and then let me do it. Maybe Discord, actually. I'm not sure if it's, hold on. Let me check the see what people are saying. It's the gate on Discord. I thought so.

Yeah. So I think they can hear it, but let me see if... Hold on. All right, so we're just not going to worry about that. Oh, hey. I'm ready. I'm okay. I'm going to do this one.

Okay, eat the muffin. Yeah, I can't eat. I'm doing this. I have no attention. Okay. So I'm going to, it's, it's, so I'll do the ooh. So actually, you can do it this way, too. So we'll do three separate breaths.

Oh. Do you hear those? I turned on your stream and I heard it there. Okay. So, ah, ooh, um, over the course of one breath. Okay, we're going to do five rounds. Well, let's do seven rounds. I may drop out just because my throat is scratching when I talk too much.

Oam chanting is hard. And, I want you to pay attention to two things. The first is that chanting is about vibration, not about sound. So you're going to feel kind of anxious and maybe weird or whatever. I don't know if you have any history of performing or whatever, but it's fine to feel those things. But focus on the vibration and specifically try to pay attention to where you feel vibration. And it may change with different syllables and really just try to kind of go into that vibration. And the last thing that I'm going to ask you to do is after the seventh round, after the seventh round,

I want you to pay attention to like what you feel on the inside. And then try to tell me, so think about it. it and then try to notice what's wrong. There's something inside you that's like not right. Right. So just just feel what you are and try to figure out. Does anything about this feel wrong? Like is anything incomplete? Should, is there a should somewhere in what you feel after the practice? Okay.

All right. So take a deep breath in. So close your eyes. Deep breath in. and begin. Big deep breath again. More energy. Take a second, in and out. And now we'll begin again, just like that.

Focus on the vibration. Two more, make them count. Take a breath, just a breath. And now last one, long, deep, calm, and full. Eyes closed. Sit with it. And now try to find what's wrong. What do you feel?

You can answer if you want to. Do you feel like something, like, how do you feel now? I feel like, especially near the end of, like, every time we would do it, like my exhaustion came through. But I feel like it was nice to kind of, get into it because it feels like a mental reset. Yeah, so I think you got to do something like this.

And if the exhaustion is coming through, that's really good. It's not the exhaustion coming through. It's the exhaustion coming up. Because, Iman, you're very tired. You're very, very tired. Stop saying stuff that's can make me cry. I mean, I'm sorry, but you know what? I think you don't let yourself.

you don't let yourself sit down. You don't let, like, other people get to take a break, but you don't. And sure, there's a part of that that's like streaming and business and stuff like that, but I'm not talking about business. I'm talking about up here. And so you've got to let yourself feel that and let it, because you don't let yourself be tired. And that's not fair. Sorry, back to square one.

No. Good. I mean, so what I tell people is that when they meditate, what comes up is what needs to come up. Because meditation is about relieving the pressure on your mind. And when you create less pressure, so if I depressurize a chamber, right, and I reduce the pressure, then it becomes closer to a vacuum. And when you have a vacuum, more stuff can come in.

So, like, there's stuff in you that you've walled off and shut off in the closet, that when you meditate, you know, each round of meditation, like towards the end as you enter quietness and the pressure drops from the chanting, this thing starts to come up. And this is why I think chanting is a good technique for you because you're going to, you can't sit there. You're not ready to sit there. You're not ready for the closet to be open.

You're not ready for that glass wall with the pile of dishes on the other side. You're not ready for the wall to come down. What you want to do is take a peek inside. And each round you chant, you peek inside, and you peek inside and you peek inside. It's like there's, you know, there's a frightened imam who thinks that there's a monster in the closet.

closet. And if I open the door, she's going to freak the fuck out. But if I peek inside and I'm going to just look real quick. I'm going to shut it right away. Is that okay? I open and shut. And I open and I shut. And I do that a couple of times. Then like eventually like, Iman is going to be okay with me like, like really looking inside. And then then like maybe like looking and be like, hey, do you want to just peek real quick? And then you have to let yourself be comfortable with that that exhaustion and let it come up. And yeah. So I hope that helps. I think you're awesome. I do genuinely think you're perfect, but not in like a Twitch royalty sort of way, like in a, you know, broken and normal human sort of way. Yeah.

And I think we're all where we need to be. And sometimes where we are, or not sometimes, usually, it's painful. And I'm sorry to say this to a chat, but you can be a popular streamer, and it doesn't mean that you don't have feelings. like that's what we think right and we think that oh once i do this if i graduate from college once i find a girlfriend i had thought thought of all these different things once i do this then i'll be happy once this will happen then i'll be happy the part of the story that i don't tell people is that i actually got happy before i started that school like my transformation happened before and then everything after that has been like immaterial in some way what happened i stopped playing a rigged game

I remember a moment in meditation where I just started, I didn't used to cry very much or like I hadn't cried like a decade. And then there was a moment in meditation where I just wept and wept and wept. And it was kind of like, you know, the catharsis that sometimes happens here. I had this catharsis where I realized like I'm not any of the things that I wanted to be and that I should be. And I'm just not like I just don't live up to that standard. And I just fully accepted that and it was okay that like I looked around and I was like oh shit I'm still here like I don't need to be any of those things like I'm just what I am and like it's gonna be like it was it was before deciding to apply for the third time and and so it was the second it was the second

after the second year I applied to med school and didn't get in and I was like I'm just not like I thought I was smart I thought I could do it I thought I could be all these things and I was like I can't be any of that shit. I'm just not that good. I'm just what I am. And that's when I changed. There's a lot of stuff that, you know, led up to that. But that was kind of the turning point.

I'm very glad you kept the pie. Me too. Yeah, there's a, there are all kinds of stories there about that. And people advising me, they're like, hey, man, you've got like a 2.5. You're not going to get in. Like, what do you think is going to happen? Got an 80 rejection. what's going to happen?

I was like, yeah, well, fuck you guys. I'm going to do it anyway. Seriously, I had a lot of people advising me to give up. But anyway, thanks for coming on. I mean, I hope we've been helpful. Thank you for coming. Good luck to you. And, you know, if you have toxic people,

I really do want to talk to the worst drags of people who attack you. I'll just link them your channel and then block. them. Can you link them to the sign up? Sure. And if there really is someone that, that, yes, link them to the sign up, because then I need to know who they are

so we can talk to. And yeah, and good luck. And, you know, if you want to, I'm sorry, I didn't have a, I didn't have the mana. I'm out of mana at this point. I didn't have the mana to really have that. Yeah, to have that second conversation. But if you want to, you know,

I'd love to hear more details about jaded, or resentment, defensiveness. And so if you want to talk down the road. Yeah. Cool. And good luck to you and stay safe. And, you know, I hope you. You too.

You and your entire lovely big household. Yeah. Oh, my God. So take care and thank you very much. Bye. Bye.