HealthyGamerGG - The Future of 5up

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

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Hey man. Are you a dude? Yeah, he sounded like a dude. What? I was just, it just occurred to me that I wasn't entirely sure of your gender because, you know. Oh, I see. Yeah, I'm a guy. So welcome five up. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Do you want to see my face on the Discord call?

Um, sure. Why not? Okay. There. My face is revealed. Hello. Hello. Hey, man. And what do you go by? Just five up for Twitch.

Okay. And what would you like to talk about today, five up? Should we just get into like the main things, I guess? Sure. I guess somewhat being new to Twitch and the whole new experience of it. what goes along with that, I guess, really good and the bad side of it. I think that's probably the main thing.

Okay, so the, like, how to adjust to Twitch? Yeah, essentially. Okay. And so can you tell me a little bit about how you got, started streaming on Twitch? Sure. So I'd say for around two years now. I've been friends with a lot of streamers,

but it's always been like behind the scenes, I guess. So the public didn't know me. Then when a manga started just becoming extremely popular, I was good at deception-based games. They thought it was entertaining and they brought me along for some of the streams. And then they constantly sent me screenshots of like, does five up stream, can I have a link to a stream or like people begging me to stream? So I eventually just said, okay, I'll turn it on.

It wasn't really a plan to become a streamer. And then this grew exponentially an insane amount. And now here we are. Okay. And we're going to start with one of the staples. How does that make you feel? Um, it feels weird, I guess, is the best way I can describe it, where the, the element of I don't think I can process having around like 10,000 to 20,000 people watch me.

Like it doesn't feel like that's an actual thing, I guess, where I don't think it's even hit me for that aspect. It just more feels like I'm talking to a, like, it feels the same talking to 100 people, I guess. But then there's other elements where you actually interact with. the people that watch you, which is like the very daunting almost. But it's a really cool experience at the same time. What's daunting about it? I'm not used to having people like be nervous around me, I guess, where if you join a channel, there'll be a flood of people coming in.

And then they'll all want to say something, but they'll also be extremely nervous to say anything. and that's a weird experience for me, I'd say, just because I'm used to just talking to people, just like person to person, I guess. Okay. I'm just listening to your voice. Do you mind if I ask a couple of questions in general about, you know, ballpark features of your, like, where you are in life?

Sure. So can you just ballpark your age for me? I'm 21. Okay. And do you want to share with us, like, are you a student or? I'm not currently, sure. I am not currently a student. I finished high school, then it went immediately into working.

I did graphic design. Okay. And so are you working right now? Do you have a job? I'm not. I mean, I guess Twitch is my full-time job now. Yep, but before that? Yeah.

I did graphic design. Okay. Full-time. And when did you? you start streaming on Twitch? In mid-August of this year. Okay. So just recently.

Yeah. And so can you help me understand a little bit about what about adjusting to Twitch has been challenging for you? Um, there is a, I don't, I feel guilty when I can't control the chat room because it's such a new thing that I wasn't able to like build from the grand up up and like start a very controlled community where there is just a combination of a bunch of

different communities plus YouTube all into one very fresh place and sometimes it's just like they'll if anything goes wrong for say in a game of Amongus because that's a game about deception there's going to be heated moments and a lot of people don't understand. that and they will brigade other chat rooms occasionally. And it's just, that's not me at all. And it's very hard to control that. That's like, I feel bad about that by a giant amount. And then there's like the, I'm not going to say, I don't think I have imposter syndrome.

But correct me if I'm wrong, if this isn't the lines of it where, so I'm losing my voice. Me a second. it's it's not it's sort of like I work hard for what I do I try to be entertaining but there is the feeling of like these are I've my peers I've only started in August and it almost feels like a level of undeservingness okay when I compare myself to other people five up would you describe yourself as contemplative uh remind me what that means like do you are you a thinker Yeah, I'd say so.

You sound, you sound contemplative. You sound like you think about things. Yeah, I would say I think a lot before I do anything to the point of over-analyzing stuff. How do you know if you over-analyze something? When I can think about like four different possibility of ways to go. Like, even for this interview, I guess. it was like what if I say something bad?

What if I say something good? What if I reveal too much? Blah blah blah blah blah blah And that's like way too much into detail versus just going with it But does that bother you to think Tover and noise? For some parts it's helpful.

For some parts it's very, very bad I guess where you can get in your own head. Ask again, does it bother you? Oh, no. I didn't think so. So, you know, sometimes people talk about overthinking as anxiety. So sometimes, you know, we kind of think about people who overthink about various possibilities and stuff like that as a manifestation of anxiety. But it sounds to me like you just kind of calculate, but it doesn't necessarily bother you.

I'd say that's accurate. And so I'd say that when you say that you overthink, it's actually out of a logical conclusion. that maybe you would benefit from thinking less, and maybe you would do better with sort of going with the flow and letting go and doing all these things that people talk about. What do you think about that? Yeah, I mean, that would... It's a lot easier said than done, is the sad part about that, though.

Yeah, but... Yeah, go ahead, sorry. Yeah. I don't... I've tried to do that. occasionally, but it's like I'll put myself out on a whim and do stuff spontaneous just to like try and capture that more, but it's like still very hard to do that to like borderline impossible. Sure. Sure. Okay. So let me just try to kind of recap a little bit about what I understand about you five up and then you let me know if I'm kind of missing particular things or you want to add anything. Okay.

So it sounds like you were friends with streamers. And then you started playing Among Us with them just kind of out of fun, maybe. And then people started inquiring a little bit about, you know, how do we watch you stream directly? And then you kind of decided, okay, maybe I'll give this a shot. And around mid-August you started streaming. And now you have what sounds like 5 to 10,000 concurrence. And you feel sort of undeserving. But at the same time, I'm not hearing that you're particularly.

particularly distressed. If anything, you're more bewildered. And it's sort of like you just spawned into game and you're like kind of looking around and you're like, what's going on here? And how do I manage this? Where am I? Yeah. I don't know if relating to the undeserving part where I don't know if bewildered is the correct

word because, I mean, more than that feeling, it's, um, there's people that I've watched for years, I guess, or people that have been in the industry for years, like nine, 10 years, I guess. And then I come in and then it's only been three months. I, it's, it's hard to not compare yourself to other people. And like, a personal opinion is like, these people are so entertaining and I don't feel as entertaining as them. And then I am all of a sudden, like, bigger. And I don't want to use bigger because that feels like cocky, almost. Sure.

But I can't think of a better word besides that, where some of these people only have, like, 500 viewers, for example. And I feel like people deserve so much more, I guess, where I'm kind of just here. Sure. That's more the feeling of it. Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. So I'm also not noticing a whole lot of distress with anything that you've talked about today.

I mean, I'm generally a very, very, like, controlled person where I try to not let emotions or, I guess emotional sides in general. affect me where I think about it a lot, then I decide how I feel about that and go on about that rather than just acting on an impulsor letting things affect me too much. And what is it that you're keeping at bay? What is it that you're not letting, what is it that you're not letting affect you? I mean, I've been, hmm, I guess, besides like repeating myself, I guess, I've never been one to like, it's not a lack of empathy, it's a lack of like vocal empathy, I guess, where, or emotional understanding of people. I don't know how to, like, explain this. Okay.

Well, let's what I get. Why don't you start by doing a bad job and then we'll clean it up? Gotcha. Sure. When someone's going through a situation, I guess, it's, I look at things logically and find a logical solution rather than an emotional solution. And that translates over to pretty much everything I do in general. so not just the that was more of an example

trying to translate over to like everything and that's how my mind thinks so that's what I'm more me by like less empathy in terms of like feeling and such for so like streaming I guess I don't understand a lot of the feelings that go into it

that a lot of people have or like the response and reception from chat I guess, where like it feels sort of like a giant disconnect. Is that a little better? Yeah, good job. So let me see if we let's see if we can do this together. Okay, five up?

Sure. So I don't know exactly what I'm getting this from, but I get the sense that like you don't live the life that other people live. And I'm not just talking about being a successful streamer. I mean that you sort of navigate the world and you kind of like see other people having issues with stuff that just is not an issue for you. And you sort of logically understand how there are things that, you know, people feel and things that and things that and sometimes they get bothered about things and they feel

like impostors and whatnot. But you just don't feel those things. Like you get that maybe on some level you do. Maybe you feel it a little bit. But it doesn't, it doesn't seem to affect you as much as it affects other people. Yeah, I'd say that's very true. Okay, we got a very true. Okay.

So, yeah, man, I think this is going to go potentially in a different direction from maybe what you were thinking or maybe what other people were thinking. And it's interesting. Okay. So let me ask you this five up. Can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing? Sure. I, hmm. I guess from a very young age,

my parents were divorced. So I was always raised on the two-house dynamic where half the week I'd spend a day or days at my father's house, half the days at my mother's house, went to a charter school, if you know what that is. Yeah, can you explain it to us? Charter school is essentially, it's not a public school. It is a school where it is more of a small, a different type of teaching style where for the specific one it was like three years at a campus. This is like age six or nine. I'm just going to speak in ages because Europeans might be watching. So ages six or nine, then different campus with a whole different class and such in students,

three years there, then another campus after the ages of nine through 12. then you do two years in middle school. That's, I guess, 12 through 14, and then I went to a public school. So kind of throughout school, I've always been the person to finish things very, very quickly, where instead of, I don't really know what a public school system is for the ages up until high school, because I didn't go to one. But we were assigned very, like, a set assignments for the week,

and I would always just finish that in the first day. And then I would just spend the rest of the week doing whatever I wanted, I guess, because there was no other assignment to do. And that lasted up until, I guess, middle school. And within those things, because I had so much freedom, the teachers didn't really know what to do with me. and things kind of just got, I guess, left behind in a way where I was just my own independent, I guess, and it was hard to find the resources of what I wanted to do fully.

So within these school systems, every, I'd say third year, because like I said, you switch a campus after three years. So first and second, fine, on the third year, the year before you switch a campus, something always happened to where I was learning, I guess, where either the teacher got, something happened to them. The dynamic changed a lot where, like, on my third year, the teacher got pregnant, and then she completely just, like, did not pay attention to any of the third years. In sixth grade, or age 12, the teacher swapped from the main one. And for the three years that were at these campuses, we only share the same classmates for every subject. and there's only 28 people per class

and the campus has like 200 people in total. And then middle school, same thing happened again where a bunch of teachers that I know were good from my brother's experience because he went to the same schools as me. They all swapped the years I got there. And so everything was sort of like a transitional period.

I'm sorry, can you say you have siblings? I have one brother. And is he older? younger? Older. And what's he up to? He is... Let's say he's in

the medical research field, and I have to leave that a little bit broad, I guess. Is he accomplished? Yeah. Well, he's 23. He just finished university. But, like, I, I can't say what he does.

No, no, I'm not asking what he does. I asked, is he good at it? Um, I don't know. I mean, that's, it's kind of secret, I guess. What's secret about that? Um, hmm. I'm, I don't mean to pry. I'm just genuinely, no, no, no, no.

I'm just trying to get a sense of like, if he's accomplished at whatever field he is. And I don't, I don't see how that's identifying. information. Yeah, he's accomplished at what he does. I think that's all I could really say. Sure. That's, that's, yeah, basically what I'm asking. Five up, do you feel like you're not like the other humans? What do you mean by that? Go into that more. What was your, why did you laugh? What did you feel when I asked the question? Um, and I'll go, go into it more in a second. I guess

when you say that it instantly like makes me go into comparing myself to other people and it's like I did things differently than people I wouldn't say I'm different though I guess yeah but but so I'll pay attention to my wording okay do you feel like you're not like the other humans yes

okay so I'll explain more now. So like humans have like lives, right, where they get attached to things, they get emotional. Sometimes they get anxious. Sometimes they get confused. Sometimes they get, you know, bent out of shape. They compare. They have egos. They try hard. They suffer. They're paralyzed by lack of motivation, things like that. And it's not that you don't feel any of those things. It's just that all that shit seems to affect you less. Like the volume on all of those things is sort of turned down.

Yeah. I'd agree. Okay. And so, I mean, five up, are you, are you, like, I don't, I'm not getting much in terms of like, emotional distress or like,

you know, sometimes people come on and they're like dealing with, let's say, depression or anxiety or like, feeling cut off or feeling unmotivated or things like that. I'm not really, I'm not really getting any, any of that from you. Yeah, that wasn't, I guess throughout like middle school and high school, or early high school,

I had a little bad of depression, I'd say, and I managed to work through that. And I think I'm in a very comfortable spot. And I've been for a bunch of years now. Sure, sure. So I'm just confirming that, right? So sure, we don't need to go digging for negativity. In fact, I'm just, I'm actually trying to close the door on negativity because I think that becomes a much more interesting conversation. So this isn't going to be a conversation, at least I don't think so, about depression or anxiety or imposter syndrome or anything like that.

What do you think about that? Does any of that stuff, like, did you want to talk about any of that stuff? That wasn't really the intention, I guess, of coming on here. Did you have a particular intention? Well, I guess two. One was to one meet you because I am a fan. Okay. I guess there's the nervousness about everything relating to what happened, like being here now, as in the Twitch environment. and what that means

and the I guess the terrifyingness of what comes after because with such a sudden explosion on such a a game that has no business being as popular as it does the moment that comes after

what happens next after that game is finished is terrifying. What's terrifying about that? The why do people fully watch me, I guess? Because I don't feel that particularly entertaining, I guess. And I don't understand why, to this degree, this happened for the position I'm in now. Yep.

Okay. So I think there's an important word there. And my, I'm getting kind of like an interesting direction, which I'd like to pose to you now. So you said, you don't understand. So sometimes when, like you don't know, you don't understand what comes next. So, and that's actually what I'd like to focus on today. So sometimes when people come on, they're struggling with a particular emotion or like problem. And our goal is to sort of help them like see things in a new light.

In a sense, it's understanding, but I think it's more of like an emotional understanding. In your case, five up, what I would say is that you are what I would call spiritually gifted. and what I mean by that is that like you're one of these people that is actually for whatever reason has a fair amount of detachment kind of baked into you. So what we talk about and what we try to encourage in this channel is for people to teach people how to become detached. So I know this sounds kind of weird. But like so sometimes, you know, like I mean, I don't give people like clinical diagnoses, but my sense of people. is that, okay, this person has anxiety holding them back or this person has shame holding them back or, you know, this person like isn't in cell because they have a low value of themselves or whatever. The interesting thing is that in your case, I think for whatever reason you have a certain amount of detachment baked into you. And what I mean by detachment is that, you know, a lot of human beings live lives that they're like very attached to stuff. So sometimes that's material stuff. Sometimes it's relationships. Sometimes it's like goals. and ambitions, but I don't get the sense that you're particularly ambitious.

I don't get the sense that you're particularly like, you know, hung up on something emotionally. I think you just sort of are generally like kind of content and kind of happy. And if anything, you're just trying to figure out like how all this stuff works. Like you're not, but your desire to figure out how things work is not like out of a desire to like change. something. So a lot of times, like, understanding is born of, like, desperation. So I'm tired of feeling this way. So I need to understand how to stop feeling this way. You just seem to sort of be, like, kind of chilling and are like, you know, life is relatively easy for you. I don't get the sense that you're particularly attached to, like, academic accomplishments, although it sounds

like you could be quite accomplished if you really put your mind to it, but you seem to be relatively uninterested. You're one of these rare people that seems like you went to work after high school, but like that was also like, I'd guess that you were relatively successful as a graphic designer. Yeah, I didn't have a reason to go to college where any field that I want to go into or wanted to go into didn't really require that education. Yeah, so see, that's kind of interesting because that's very rare, right? So very few people say, I'm not going to go to college because it doesn't suit me. So most people are actually like, you know, have either a lack of like internal sense of direction to where they go out, go to college out of like insecurity and like not being sure what they want to do in life. Or they go because that's what they're supposed to do.

Like you just sort of have your own internal compass that seems to be a little bit, you know, know, slick when it comes to like the world wanting you to do things. Like it just, the world wanting you to do things just sort of doesn't latch on to you. Does that make sense? Yeah. How, how much do you think that what I'm saying actually is accurate to kind of your, who you are in your life? I think, um, I want to, like, my mind says, I want to say you're like completely accurate, but I want to say 95% like there might be some room for error. But I'd say, yeah, very accurate. Okay.

So I think oddly enough, so this is going to be an interesting conversation five, because I don't think it's going to be about like, so some people are drawing correlations between you and destiny. And some people are sort of saying that like, you know, this sounds a lot like destiny. Like he doesn't experience a whole lot of emotion. Frankly, I don't, I don't think you're similar to destiny at all. I don't. So, so some people, I think have.

emotional suppression. I don't think you have emotional suppression. Or, I mean, maybe you've got some, but I don't think you're like, you know, there's some treasure trove of negative emotion that you've tucked so far away within yourself that, like, you know, that's what we have to dig up. I think you're just kind of confused and you're different from other people. And, and you're not really sure, like, how to systematically understand yourself better or, like, what to do with your life. Hmm Yeah What do you think?

I don't know how to respond to that I mean besides like I want to give a better response and just yeah I think that very nail on the head but I don't know like what to say That's okay So just just say

So you don't have to offer more I just want you to offer If it's a nail on the head It's nail on the head Right so then then it's going to be weird Because I'm going to guide the conversation because, but first we have to like establish, we have to just establish that we're on the same page

about what we're talking about and what direction to go. Right? So like, I'm just trying to like nail this down very clearly that I don't think I'm going to try to dig into your negative emotions from your childhood. Because I don't think there's a whole lot to find there. No. Okay. So, so then, so let's just talk about. about this. So can you tell me a little bit, I do want to understand a little bit more about

your upbringing. So can you tell me a little bit about your parents? Sure. So the graphic design side was that is a business that my mom's side runs. I'm giving me a second. Give me two seconds. Sorry about that. I just muted everything. I turned it off. Yeah, so for my mom's side of stuff, she runs her own graphic design business, and it's more of like a work at home, very specialized type of thing where I'm not going to say what exactly we do and what we work on because it's very easy to find if you know. but we do a lot of stuff for like specialized industries relating to either music or big conferences and hotels and advertisement stuff. And then for my dad's side, he's very accomplished in the rock climbing scene where like two very, very, very different personalities and, Sides of upbringing where I guess I got to experience like one side where we didn't have like any money and we're struggling on that side.

And then mom's side a lot more frugal, I guess. And it was the dynamic of going from nothing to a little bit of something and just switching back and forth in seeing both sides of that, I guess. Then I'm trying to think of how much I want to say. Let's talk about this for a second. Why the hesitation? Why do you think so carefully about what you want to say? For this topic in particular?

Yeah, just this topic and also, like, you know, it sounds like you're very concerned about revealing something. What is it that you're trying to protect? I'm not trying to get you to say anything about it. I just want to understand what your motivations are. Oh, I guess it's also pertaining to why I don't show my face, where I don't want to have people relating back to, I guess, me being friends with streamers before I streamed on Twitch for years.

whenever I went out with them, they would get recognized all the time. It didn't matter where they were. And the thought of loss of privacy is something I don't want it all, where I want to be able to do what I want to do and not have to be forced to just lose that, I guess. Okay, so you're just, it's just protection of privacy. For protection of privacy,

And then there is, like, how much do I want to say about it's privacy for one side? And then it's like very, very, very personal things for the other. What does that mean for the other? So, like, relating to why I didn't, like, go into detail about what my mom's company does, that's more of the keeping privacy side of things. And then for, like, why I'm hesitating on the other is this, like, personal events that happen that are like, I don't think I want to reveal at that moment or, like, go too much into. Personal events like that happened in your upbringing? Yes.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, okay. Were you, did you grow up in a particular religious tradition? No. There was an event that caused my dad's, or my dad to become very religious where he wasn't at all

into very religious and then my mom's side not at all Okay Have you had people in your life Five Up who understand you? Yeah A few Like do

Do people like understand Like have you met anyone like you? Similar I can think of three people You can think of three people Any of them like older than you? Um, I'd say two of them are. Like, substantially?

One's two years old. Two years older than me. The other one is four years older than me. Okay. Then the other one is, um, I'm older than him by a few months. Okay. And how did you get to be friends with a bunch of streamers? Um, how did that happen? If you, ooh, A combination of a few things, I guess, where I assume you know what League of Legends is.

Yeah. Yeah. I peaked at Challenger in that game. And that in suit just goes with, you meet streamers from like, I hate saying this, but like, Challenger is essentially like, all right, you are a person. You can talk to who you want to because that is the social status. And then the other side is like, I had a friend that, I'm not going to say who, I had a friend that got popular on the Raj Patel show, now known as like the Austin or 11 host, whatever it's called, that no longer goes on there. And she introduced me to a lot of streamers, I guess, and I became friends with them. And how did you feel about that?

What was it like being friends with streamers? I never really looked at it like that. It was more, I've always tried to just become friends with people that are fun. I've never been one to get like starstruck or nervous around people, I guess. I think that makes sense. Did you ever think about the value it could bring being friends with these people? Yeah, I mean, that was partially in the back of my head and it makes me feel bad, but But yeah, there is an element of like, well, I have friends that are in the scene and I have more opportunities to do some fun things.

I didn't think streaming was like a potential, but I didn't want to feel like I would take advantage of that situation. I wanted more do it on myself if I wanted to stream. the streaming was never really a thing I thought to pursue. Okay. Five up, what do you want to do with your life? I've wanted to,

I said I've wanted to do what I want is the best way to put it, where I want to spontaneously do just random goals that I have, whether it be travel to a bunch of locations, and explore all of Europe or Asia versus maybe open a very, very nice bakery somewhere in Europe or become very skilled at cooking or pastry side of that.

But overall, just like have fun and do what I want has always been my goal in life. I think that would be a waste. interesting why so so you were born with a really good set of RNG five up and I think that if you're born born with a good set of RNG

you've got two options right one is just kind of coast and you sort of live a life of indulgence right you learn you get good at things like things that are respectively indulgent but you do things like you travel

you master skills because you have the talent and proficiency to do so. Like something tells me that, you know, here we've got a 21-year-old kid who's Challenger and League of Legends and a very successful streamer after like three months of streaming. And if you, something tells me if you wanted to master becoming a pastry chef, you would. So when you put your mind to something, it sounds like it tend, your mind tends to generally speaking, do what you want it to do. You know, you have a certain amount of self-direction and, and, you know, it's, you sound kind of OP, five up.

I guess, but I, the, I don't know what to respond to that, I'll be honest. That's okay. I don't know what, what do you mean by? be a, like, are you saying that for, like, you think it would be better for me to pursue? I, like, I don't know, a field or, I don't generally know what you mean, but it would be a waste. Yep, I get that. And so we're going to talk about that in a second. Yeah, okay.

So here's, here's what I think would be a waste. So, like, okay. So five up, I think this will make a lot more sense if I give you just some. actual context. So in the karmic religions like Hinduism and Buddhism, they believe in the principle of cause and effect. Okay? So that's what karma means. So karma means that for each action, there's an equal and opposite reaction.

That all things that happen have causes and that all things and that all causes lead to happenings. You with me so far? Yes. Okay, so then let me ask you a question. If you got a good RNG, like you spawned with a good seed, okay? Like, you know, I'm talking about like R&G seed from like rogue likes. Yes. Okay.

So if you spawned with a good seed, so let me start by asking you this question. Okay, so we're going to like philosophize a little bit, which is not something I do often on stream, but I think it's actually probably what you need. Because I imagine you have these kinds of thoughts a lot. So do you think that cause and effect is a universal principle of existence, or do you think that it is limited? And that some causes exist without effects, and that some effects are not preceded by causes. Definitely the second one. So give me an example of an effect that is not preceded by a cause.

Where does cause and effect break down? So, I mean, causes inspired by a person wanting to make a change or motivation or something happen. And a person can pursue that and do that for, this is more on the negative side of thinking, but it's still a example of it doesn't necessarily always, because you said some potential parts. So the cause that they are trying to make an effect happen from doesn't sometimes amount to anything. that's like not that's a very negative way of looking at it where there's also the complete opposite where a person can strive out to do something and make a change and that change will actually have a great effect um but you you can't or at least i don't look at it like that is a guarantee no well well yeah so so the question is is there an effect it's not that there's a particular effect right so like for example so i'll just be transparent. So I believe that, you know, causes have effects and that effects have causes. So it's been my experience, generally speaking, as a scientist, that barring some very rare

situations, the laws of physics don't randomly break down. Okay. From that perspective, I agree with you. Right. So like, like, even if I have a motivation or intention to do something, and the thing doesn't happen, that doesn't mean that my actions don't have effects. It just means that the effect that I wanted was not achieved. So that's different. It's like kind of saying if I roll a pair of dice

and I want an 11, just because I want an 11 doesn't mean that once I roll the dice, they're not going to land on a particular number. Like once I roll the dice, the dice will land on some number. Mm-hmm. So does that be you with me? Yeah, no, I follow you. So just because the, you know, I'm not saying that you can necessarily control a particular outcome, in fact, the opposite.

But what I'm saying is that all things come from somewhere. Like, it's impossible to get a plant without a seed. And generally speaking, well, I mean, not all plants, but not all seeds will grow into plants. Right. So there are a number of things that can influence whether a seed winds up growing into a plant or not. But once again, you can look at each of those seeds. seeds and you can kind of say that like the reason for this effect is because of particular causes. Like if I put a seed in, you know, in a metal box, it's not going to turn into an apple tree.

Right? Because the sufficient causes are not there. With me? Yes. Okay. So from that perspective, completely agree with every cause is an effect. Okay. So then let me ask you this. Do you think your birth has antecedent causes? Go into more what antecedent means.

So like, is your birth influenced by prior causes? I mean, yeah. Okay, which ones? I mean, I guess just me being born. Sure. Sex. Like. Sure. Absolutely. Right? And so your makeup is influenced by what?

I mean, the genetics of the parents. Absolutely, right? Now, what about your parents' financial situation? Would you consider that to be a cause that determines who you are? No, I wouldn't say so. Really? Not to a specific degree where I've always been allowed to do whatever I want. Uh-huh.

and when it comes to like if I wanted to do something as in travel or get anything, I'd have to work for that. So it was an effort to get what I want, I guess, where I did have a more privileged side, at least on my mom's side. But I don't think money has, I mean, it has shown me more potentials in the world. So on that aspect, yes, where I've been given more opportunities to see stuff and that there's inspiration and motivation to do over things. But I don't think money is fully the influence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think you're actually, I didn't answer the question.

I didn't ask the question clearly. But your answer implies to me that the answer is yes. So let me put it this way. You know, part of who you are today is because of your genetics. part of who you are today is the financial situation that your parents brought you up in. Yes. Right? So if you're, I'm not saying that you're money oriented or that, or anything like, I'm not making a particular claim about how the dice landed.

All I'm saying is that there are a number of things that kind of influence and drive into who you are in this moment. And so some of that is genetics, right? So those are some aspects of your being that are. essentially determined before you were born. Fair? Mm-hmm. And then there are all these other, like, nurture aspects. But those in turn are determined by, like, your parents, because your parents have a slew of experiences, and then they share certain principles or values with you.

And those, in turn, are, like, built on their own experiences, which in turn are influenced by their genetics and their upbringing, and on and on and on. make sense? Yes. Okay. So then the question is like, okay, so like you are what you are. And then the question is like, what do you do with the seed that you're given? And so this is where I'm going to make a claim.

So so far I feel like I've been on pretty standard footing or pretty solid foundation. And I feel like if you disagreed, I could, you know, make a convincing argument. Whether I can bring you around to it or not is a different story. Now I'm going to go out on a limb. Okay. So this is where like I'm on shaky ground. So it's been my experience that from a... So this is where like now we get into sort of the spirituality or the religious aspect of it,

where it becomes harder to elucidate logically, although in my experience, if you spend enough time and energy exploring it, you'll come to this conclusion. So there's like this idea of like good karma and bad karma, which I think is actually false. There's no such thing as good karma and bad karma. Karma is just karma. energy is just energy and cause and effect is just cause and effect. It's we as human beings who apply our own value system onto karma. So it is because we desire particular effects that we say that something is better than something else.

With me so far? Yes. Okay. And so what I'm going to say, though, is that like it's been my experience that people who are born with a good seed can go one of two directions. They either use that seed for themselves or they use that seed for others. What do you think about this? Yeah, I mean, I agree.

It's just up to the motivation of that person and the how much effort they want to put into it. Yep. And so I think, so I think part of the reason that you, did, you got this seed is because of your past karma. And I think that you've got an interesting choice because I think if you go the route that you were talking about in terms of like learning lots of skills and doing cool stuff and traveling the world, I think your life will be a little bit of a waste. Okay. That's a provocative statement. How do you, how do you feel about that?

In, in some senses, it's like, if I, I feel like people in general have a talent and they you can do something to make a little bit of a difference or a massive difference depending on things that you put yourself out to do. And some people are going to be better at that. Some people can contribute a lot to the, I guess, society or I'm just going to use society. there's obviously a bunch of words or different types of things I could describe. And while that is true, I feel like

learning a bunch of different skills and applying it in not necessarily just like a make a difference to the world is a needed or not, needed isn't the correct word. I don't want to be, for example, a politician. I don't want to be a public, like, I don't know, a public speaker or a motivator, I guess. So while that, I could be, I guess, it's, uh, it's hard for me to say, like, is that what you're telling me to do?

Is that? No, I'm not telling you to do any of those things. I'm also not telling you to become a doctor or anything like that. So here's, I think what I'm telling you is really just to introduce this concept because I think for, I think you should do everything that you have said. But I think that I'm just kind of introducing the idea that, you know, you've got a really good RNG. And so like the world is going to like you, you basically have a fork in the road of like your life, right? you can live a life where you tend to focus on yourself, or you can live a life where you improve the lives of others.

Now, I'm not saying that those two are mutually exclusive. I'm not saying that becoming a pastry chef won't be the way in which you give back to other people. I don't think it looks like anything particular. What I'm really trying to do here, and this is hard, a five-up, is that I'm trying to get you to think about things because I don't know if you've quite been exposed to some of these concepts. And that's really the goal. I think if you want to travel the world, you absolutely should. If you want to focus on yourself for a while, that's actually totally fine too.

But I think that when I ask you, you know, what do you want? It's essentially to kind of, you're kind of saying, I want to do what I feel like, which is a very good goal. But at some point, having seen people who are somewhat like you and who are also very accomplished, They tend to find that their life starts to become relatively empty at some point. And so what I'm trying to do is actually, since based on our karma, I have the opportunity to talk to you when you're 21. I've talked to you when you are 30, and I've talked to you when you're like 45. And I can tell you where you're going to end up with a lot of confidence. Because I've talked to people who are you when they're 30 years old.

and they've built a company that's worth $20 million and sold it. And I've talked to you when you were 45 years old who built companies that are worth a billion dollars and sold it. And I just want to introduce the concept because I don't think you have a good... So it's not that you don't have a... You have a good internal compass, but I think you could really benefit from experiences and a system of knowledge that is sort of like hard, doesn't apply to most people, which is essentially like some of these like Eastern texts on spirituality and sort of the nature of happiness and stuff like that. Because as I said before, I think you're spiritually gifted. So you have a natural degree of a certain amount of detachment.

You also like tend to operate in terms of accomplishment like relatively effortlessly. Like it seems like if you really want to do something, like you said, you know, when you were in fifth grade, you would do all your homework at the beginning of the week. And it does. doesn't sound like anyone sat you down to try to do that. Yeah. Right? Which if you think about our audience, especially our audience at Healthy Gamer, people would kill for that. They work their entire, they spend years of their life trying to get themselves to do things, do things like do their work on Monday and then be free the rest of the week.

And instead, what they do is they like procrastinate and suffer and push it back and play games for five days. and then like panic on Friday. And it's the same amount of effort. It's just one is relatively like fun and effortless. And then like the other is like fraught with anxiety, procrastination, and shame. Hmm. And so I don't even, it's kind of weird five up because I kind of feel like you need to just like, I think if you study Eastern spirituality, and I don't mean from an academic sense,

I mean in the way that you study things, which is like very, very practically, then I think you'll learn a lot. about yourself and like what you should do with your life. Okay. I'll actually get that done. Just so I don't forget. It's something I can always look back to. Eastern spirituality?

Sure. I'll send you more concrete recommendations after the talk. If you could, that'd be very nice. Yep. I have a couple of things particularly in mind. All right. Thank you. What do you think about this conversation?

It's a little bit intimidating. I think is a good way to put how I'm feeling where I get what you mean. I think I have a better understanding of what you meant by it was a waste, I guess, or it would be a potential waste, more so now after you went into that side. What's intimidating about the conversation? I guess everything that goes into doing, doing something very large. Yeah, so this is exactly what you need to learn, man.

It doesn't have to be large, right? So, like, you could become a pastry chef, and you could run a little bakery in some small town in Europe. And that can be actually completely sufficient. It could be perfect. Right? Like, like, if what you devote yourself to is making delicious pastries that enrich the lives of people,

and, like, that's what you put all of your, focus into, I think it's fine. I don't think you have to, you know, do something grand. You don't have to save the world. It's just about, and this is what's so hard to explain Five Up is it's not about the outward action. Forget about the outward action. It's about what's going on on the inside. It's about what your intention is and what your mindset is. It's about like, you know, that internal compass that drives you to act. The action stuff you've gotten taken care of, like, that's not a big deal. And so the manifest. I think is actually somewhat irrelevant.

I mean, it's not irrelevant, but you'll figure out what that is. The point is like what is on the inside? Right? Like what do you, what do you like when you wake up and you, because you're, it's kind of interesting because you're halfway there. So, so, you know, what's your intention when you start to bake something? I think you might be focusing on the baking thing. side a little bit much as in that that's just a I guess a goal or not a goal just a potential pursuit where at some point I think it'd be fun to do that and then after that I would pursue

something else after I was finished with that whether that be I mean I guess another goal is be trilingual um just I don't want to only focus on one thing five up I'm not focusing on, I'm just using it as a placeholder because I don't know what else to say. Okay. Right? So my point is that it doesn't matter whether you're a teacher, a doctor, a streamer, or a baker. That's my whole point is that like I know this is kind of hard to understand, but your battles are going to be internal. They're not going to be external.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So like I don't care what it looks like. That's why I'm saying you don't have to like start something grand. Like forget about the outside world. Right? Because like that shit is like, you know, you started streaming three months ago and you have five to 10,000 concurrence. Were you in the right place at the right time?

Sure. Did you cultivate it? Absolutely. I think I like 70% understand you. And I feel bad that I don't fully. What do you see? Like it's interesting to hear how self-aware you are. Right?

like you have a good understanding of, you kind of say that this is intimidating, fair, and yet you're able to tolerate it. You're able to gauge what you understand and what you don't understand. So tell me what you do understand and tell me what you don't understand. I think I get at what you're trying to,

I guess, let me know, or like try and open another perspective on it. the thing that I'm, I guess, struggling is when you respond with like the, you were just using the baking thing as an example and you're more trying to like open up like what do I want to do internally, I guess, or the internal side of it. It's like in my mind, at least, when I say like I want to do what I want, that's like already somewhat the internal stuff of, I'm not just going to. lay about, like I'm going to do stuff, I guess. And whether how easy or how hard or how that makes me feel, like I'm going to do stuff that'll be challenging to me. I'm going to do stuff that's easy and fun. So that's why I guess I'm confused when you said like, or why I'm not gathering when you're

saying that I'm not fully there. It's a, it's a good point five. up. And if anything, the deficiency is on is on my end because what I'm doing is telling you, I'm trying to, I'm being unfair with you because what I'm doing is injecting conversations that I've had, like I said, with 30 year old you and 45 year old you to attempt to guide 21 year old you. And the problem is that 21 year old you hasn't had that degree of experience. So it's like kind of confusing. It's probably a mistake on my part. But let me put it this way. So let me ask you this. Okay, so I, so let's say you were talking to a streamer who had just blown up,

but the streamer is concerned that their stream has a certain amount, like a certain lifespan to it. Right? They're like, I stream this particular game. It's really popular right now, and I don't know what comes next. What would you say to them? Okay. That makes more sense now. if the streamers worry pretty much what you're doing is the streamer's worried about the lifespan you give them the nudge of like what they can do

ways to either help sustain it or what they can do after that or what they've created, I guess or other things to do in the solution behind it. Okay.

And are you doing that stuff? Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. I'm doing a mixture of, I, so is this relating back to myself as in like giving self advice or like what I'm doing currently? No, I'm just saying like so here's, okay. This is top five of.

Okay. So let me, let me start with this. So like you say you're terrified of what's going to happen after among us. Mm-hmm. Right. I don't think you're actually that worried about it. There is a degree of worry where... Sure. It's not like, I don't think I'm going to go from 10,000 to zero.

I don't think that will be a thing because that doesn't make sense in terms of where things are. But there is the, I guess, the self-conscious aspect of, I know a lot of people watch me because I'm good at the game. and it's I tend not to like think about numbers but when you compare like among us to say I stream a different game it's hard to I mean that is like there's a there's a jump now I've taken this step in trying to I guess introduce people to more sides of what I do but it's still a very big intimidation

or not intimidation I keep saying that word it's daunting I guess So if you went from 10,000 to zero five up how would you feel about that? I'd feel pretty sad about it not relating to like

damn I really want to be a streamer and in sex that I killed my stream would be more like wow I guess people didn't find me entertaining and really only watched me for this and that'd make you feel sad and where would you be a year from that? If streaming died completely, YouTube died completely, I would probably pursue a degree in Denmark from some stuff that I've earned from streaming and try and pursue education from there.

This is a goal that I wanted to move to Denmark for a very long time. and so I would use what I've gotten from streaming to help me with getting there as a goal. Okay. And whether it be. So like this is kind of my point, right? So man, this is so hard. I'm sorry, five, bump. I may need to take another crack at you later.

But so like, this is my point. So like, if your streaming career ended in dumpster fire, I think you would be fine in a year. I think you would continue moving. along the goals that you've set for yourself. Yeah, okay. If your streaming career was successful, I think you'd do the same thing. Like, here's what I think you think about your streaming career.

And when I make statements like this, I'm giving you an opportunity to tell me that I'm wrong, okay? So I don't want you to, like, by all means, say you have no idea what you're talking about, Dr. Kay. So, like, here's, like, I think that you recognize that you have an opportunity and you're going to make the most of this opportunity. And something of your identity and your ego is kind of getting confused. Because I think you had a pretty clear sense of who you were before this whole thing happened.

And that this streaming thing is like kind of a weird stress or pressure where you still have a pretty good sense of your identity, but it's starting to get maybe a little bit muddy. And then like at the end of the day, like your compass is your compass. And if you have a good opportunity, you're going to take advantage of it. And you're going to make the most of it. And you're going to try to make it do what you can out of streaming because it's like it'd be done. if you didn't. But I don't hear that you're caught up in the idea of being a streamer. I don't hear that it's actually important. It's just a means to an end. The way I've looked at streaming is I've always decided, like I said in the beginning,

I wasn't, I didn't have the intention of being a streamer. It just sort of happened. And I told people in the beginning, I'm going to stream if people want to watch me and be a means of entertainment. and then maybe form a nice community about it. And then if people didn't watch me, then I would go on about it. So while I am saying that from where I am now, going from a big number to zero is daunting. It's, that wasn't the, this hasn't been something that I've like worked my whole life towards, I guess. Like a lot of people, it's their aspiration and they're like life's desire to be a streamer. where I just didn't go through that.

I don't have the attachment of trying to, like, I guess make this work like other people have. It just sort of happened and here I am. Right. So, okay, I don't even know what I'm trying to say at this point. Let me just think about this for a second. Do you have questions, five up? That would probably focus my mind a lot.

Um, give me a second, let me think. Well, I'm on the spot. It's hard to think of a question. It's okay. I guess what do you, what do you do? Because you have a lot of influence, especially for what you provide and especially being a doctor or therapist or this means, like, what do you do with the amount of influence that you have? And how do you like fully control it? Because I think you, you do a very good job at helping people and educating the public and making people have a better mindset or way of thinking. And it's very hard for me to even realize the influence because it's also new. I don't know how to control it. That's,

like, I guess I got into a big drama in the middle of me streaming, I guess, with XQC, for example. What happened? So I guess during in Among Us lobby, I had the intention of going to a specific group, but I saw one group was Formings like a lot earlier. So I was going to play in that group and then swap to the other group when that time frame happened. This group happened to be the prior group, the early one that was going to swap through later, was the one with Felix. And then, how much do you know about Among Us? I've played it once. Played it once, okay.

For like an hour and a half. Gotcha. Let's just say I am, you've spoken to me for like an hour or so now. I think you probably gathered that I'm like heavily logical thinker that side. I will try and have a conversation and try and like, provide my side of it and that might come off as arrogant because I think, at least from the logical side, and I have a giant amount of experience when it comes to deception-based

games because I've played, do you know what mafia is, for example? Yeah. Okay, I've played mafia in a hyper-competitive scenario or hyper-competitive environment for like five years. So, like, that was just that trained me for among us, I guess, for the social side. And then mechanics from, I guess, league transfer over, or I guess games. So people deem me as a very good player, I guess, in Among Us. Interesting karma there, huh? Yeah. So when I go at it versus Felix, it was like just the clash of he,

I guess intentions of how to play the game where in the old game, you used to be able to confirm if a person is imposter. or a crewmate just by looking at the taskbar at the top. And I felt that defeated the purpose of the game in general, because it's no longer a social deduction game. It's more just, I'm going to look at a person to do this, and the game mechanics instantly confirms who all the imposters are and who all the crewmates are.

As a person who is intention is like streaming the game for entertainment, my goal is like for all the streamers that have fun and the audience to have fun because there's what, like 200,000 people watching across all of the streamers. So when that happened and I just, I'm known as like one of the best impostors in the game in general, that causes me to get voted out consistently. It doesn't matter if I'm good or bad. And that got heavily on my nerves and he got, he gets hyper competitive. So eventually just left me to leaving the lobby after a few scenarios where I call him imposter explained my and then he's, I guess, shit talking. and it was a consistent thing where that entire thing annoyed me. And I eventually just left.

He said a bunch of things and continued to speak about it after I even left. I said my piece of what I thought of the situation, that heavily blew up on live stream fails, got onto like random gaming web articles was on Snapchat and just caused like a really, really shitty dynamic. What does that mean shitty dynamic? Where if you do anything wrong text you see, his chat will brigade you. And that is what, like, people only knew me for for a month.

And it feels awkward. It felt awkward for a while. It's like, I can't play any game with him. and because you're going to get brigaded by his chat? Well, it's not like people were on my side and now you have his chat defending him

but everyone else shitting on him and then it's like if I play in a lobby with him there's going to be no matter what me versus him and I like among us is 10 people and I want to play with my friends, but he also plays with my friends. So it was just that whole situation was really bad.

So how does that make you feel? Well, it made me feel bad. I didn't like that at all. What did you feel bad about? There were two things. One, I'm a hyper-competitive person also, so I understand that, but I have never been one to rage. But I'm very understanding of, like,

who ex-QC is and why he's like that. And I didn't find it like, I didn't want there to be a rift or a weird dynamic, but I knew the chat would cause it. So if it was just like, if me and him were, it was just like a one-on-one, or just playing with friends,

it wouldn't matter. We would just both move on and it'd be fine. But because there is a bunch of other people talking about it, looking about it, causing a bunch of trouble, he got tons of hate. for it because everyone made him look out to be like this the worst guy in the world. And I felt bad about that. And I mean, Train talked to me about like how the bigger streamer pretty much no matter what gets the fault just because of the audience. And that's not necessarily true for everything,

but the more people you have, the more people there are to shit on you. And so there was the combination of I don't think I was in the wrong. Yet I also feel bad about the situation that happened. And that's also why I wanted to like, how do I control an audience? Because I don't want that to happen again. Okay. So my answer is going to be somewhat disappointing, but you don't. Right?

So like, let's just talk about what you're saying. So how do you control the behavior? I mean, I'm going to give you a more satisfying answer in a second. But the short answer, and it's really important to understand this, is that you don't. Right? Like, I can't control toxicity. Like, I don't control what someone else does. like I can't control what someone else does.

Now there are a lot of practical things that people will tell you that you can sort of cultivate a particular kind of chat and we work very hard to do that. So you can have, you know, mods that have low tolerance towards certain kinds of behaviors

and things like that. For sure, they're practical things. But in the essence of it, I want you five up to take a step back from like controlling another human being. And now you may not agree with that because I think you probably are really good at hurting other people.

I said heard. I heard. H-E-R-D. I heard. I probably didn't. Right? So I think you're good at that. But like, be really, really careful about what you actually expect from yourself. And just because you tend to be pretty good at, like, hurting other people into doing what you want to,

it doesn't mean that you can actually control them. And the bizarre thing is I think that it's the understanding. that you can't control someone that in and of itself is one of the most useful things in influencing them. Because once you acknowledge that you can't control another person,

once you cede that power over to your audience, you also can kind of like influence them in the purest way, which is to like give them an offer. So what I try to do is is cultivate a particular like attitude, and I model particular behavior. And with a lot of help from mods,

we sort of encourage a certain, we cultivate, right? So you can't control someone, but you can absolutely cultivate behavior. It's the difference between control and cultivation. Yeah, I didn't want to say control, I guess. Like, that's not how I felt about it. I don't want to control people.

It's, I guess, influence is the better word. Yeah. So, so, so, so, and I think you use the word influence, actually, in your question. And, and so I just want to kind of, maybe I'm belaboring a useless point. But so then the next thing is that I think, like, you can just model, right, the appropriate behavior. Mm-hmm. And, and so, I mean, I think that's the most that you can do. But frankly, this sounds to me like a hazard of, like, being a streamer on Twitch, right?

you've got a community and he's got a community and y'all are going to get into it. It sounds to me like you're choosing your words very carefully, carefully because you said the word competitive like 15 times and it sounded to me like that was code for something else. But I mean, I haven't figured out how to avoid Twitch trauma if that's your answer. That's what your real question is. Yeah, I mean, for me, I am carefully saying what I say. Yeah, I can tell. I don't want to get into a situation like that pretty much ever again.

I don't want to say something that wouldn't or like give people a wrong impression or I'll try to correct that wrong impression as soon as I think I might have given it. but but but i i think five up so let me here i can give you some concrete advice and then i'll try to i'll try to like circle back to what on earth i was trying to say for the last hour um but let me say this so i think when you choose your words very very carefully i think people can tell and i think if anything it highlights like something weird right so so i think sometimes being transparent and authentic and kind of accepting of things

is actually like way better from a drama reduction standpoint than being like choosing your words super carefully. I feel like that's somewhat hard to do because... It is hard to do.

So like I think like for example if I had to say if I was in your situation here's how I would tell the story. So Felix and I were in an Among Us game we're both fucking competitive. He got super fucking toxic. I got super fucking toxic.

I thought I was less toxic than he was. We got into it. Our chat started yelling at each other. Now the internet hates him. And his chat hates me. And I like Felix and I want to be able to play with him, but it's fucking awkward every time we're in the lobby now. And I just want to be able to play the game.

And I think he just wants to be able to play the game. And I wish everyone would fucking calm the fuck down. there's the there's the side of me also that it's like I have my opinions um I don't think what I said was wrong and I don't think what I said was toxic and I will die on that hill um so it's like there's the attachment so it's a matter of like I'm not going to just not give out my opinion. And if I say something, I mean everything I say generally. I'm not a toxic person, and I've never been.

So that's why that situation bothered me heavily. Yeah. So I think it's taken us about an hour and a half to find which hail you're willing to die on, because that's an attachment. I haven't detected an attachment in you, five up, until this moment. Everything that you've said. So now the question is like, why is it so important for you to die on that hill? I guess just because I believe what I say in.

And if something's bothering me, I will try and say it in a more respectful way. I don't want to like burn bridges with anyone. I don't want to teach people from like, if I'm in front of people, I want to like give them it's okay that you don't have to accept an apology or you don't have to say you're sorry I wanted to say um I want to stand for what I believe in and if what I think is right I'm going to say that I'm not going to say no I'm wrong like that's not how I want to think about things yeah so so oddly enough I think that's okay so I think it's okay to die on a hill but let me just so I still think you can be transparent about that there's a degree

degree of transparency that you can go to where it you can have an opinion about something on Twitch or another person and it's not good to say that sometimes like some people say whatever the fuck they want and go for it. I mean, that's fine. But I also don't think that's like a good environment at the same time for like having a relationship with people. And if you're no matter what going to be in contact with ex person, whether that's like in your control or not, just because of the nature of community. Let me be, let me be, let me circle back to your original question, five up. So you said, you know, what do you, like, how do you influence people like in Twitch

chat? And my answer was I would be a little bit more transparent than your being. So that's my answer. right so like like i agree with you i mean i have all kinds of opinions that i don't share so for everything that i say there are like nine things that i don't say so i'm not advocating for like radical honesty i think that's idiotic so i think but something tells me that you know something about the way that you speak i think so twitch chat is like very very like intuitive like they're very smart and they're also like

deeply empathic. And I think they sniff out BS. And I think one thing that you do project when you choose your words very, very carefully is it sets people's BS meter off. And so if you want to like calm chat down,

it's been my experience that you have to be like honest with them and you have to sort of treat them with respect. Like don't try to pull a fast one over on them because it's not going to work. And just, you know, just. And then like if there's something that you stand behind. I think it's okay to say it.

And, but at the same time, if you feel like it's going to create more drama, then it's a tricky balance. Like, don't get me wrong. I think that, you know, it's hard. Like, when you're, when you, when you play a tension-inducing game like Among Us with streamers, and not everyone is going to be quite as, like, detached as you are. it's part of what makes them successful, right, as being emotionally invested in the games that they play. Like, I think this is going to happen. Yeah.

That's not my, my, I could say this also. With what I said with regarding XQC in that moment, I would say the same thing again. I don't have regrets on that. If that arose again with a different person, I would say my opinion on it. What actually happened? I don't even

or not saying that. Oh, what happened was I in the, for when that whole situation happened he just every time I played with him, he would vote me out as in

they'd call about nobody's dead and still vote me out. That was how the game was played. And I sat through that for two hours on the specific day. On other days, enjoyed heavily playing with him. But on that day, it was just, like, already being tilted, just going into it where I have everything going for me in a game. And then I just get voted out because it was me. And it was always him doing it. And that got on my nerves. And then whenever

I call him out, it's like, it called me, like, it just discredited everything I said. And eventually it left me to leave the lobby. I left politely. I, there's a video. on it. I mean, I try to make things as peaceful as an exit as I could. And it's just because I left on me catching him and just the whole situation going down horribly and then me saying it after and then not exploding. And then I don't want to say some stuff. I'd be fine messaging you some stuff, but I don't want to say some stuff. That's fine. And I just, I was just like, you're talking around something and I don't know. Yes, there is something. I'm talking. And I can't say it.

That's fine. I mean, don't worry about it. I mean, I think at the end of the day, like, so your original question, so it sounds like this was just a mess. Yeah, it was a disaster, definitely. So. But that's not my worry. That was a battle between him that's over with.

We've spoken. It's fine. My thing with Twitch chat is there is such a juxtaposition between, I don't try and hide stuff. I'm being selective what I say right now because it's related to this specific topic. If I'm talking about, like, it seems like chat as a whole, it doesn't matter how, like, I'm playing with friends when I play right now. It's, I genuinely enjoy love everyone that I play with right now. But if they do something stupid, it's everyone just insane toxicity towards that streamer. And it's a juxtaposition of like, why, why is that happening when there's like no hostility in the game in general?

Someone made a mistake. It's a game about deception. And I can't, I just don't know why that's happening. And it's so many people. And it's virtually impossible to control. Okay. So, I mean, that I have sort of a slightly different answer for. So, you know, I went off on, I feel like this conversation has been a lot of tangents.

that I'm going off on that may not be very relevant to what we're actually talking about or where you are. So I apologize for that. But I'll share with you something that we try to tell our coaches, which is that be careful about judging your own influence. And what I mean by that is that we frequently have the situation where our coaches feel like they get like, they're like, I'm not doing enough for my client. Like my client is still struggling, like they're depressed every day or like they're, having trouble finding a girlfriend or whatever. And our coaches meet with people on a weekly basis and they kind of meet with them week after week after week.

And it sort of feels like since the person doesn't have a girlfriend, our coaches can feel very not frustrated, but really like they're letting down their client. So one of the things that we try to tell them is that, you know, be careful because change happens slowly. And it's very, very hard to judge your impact on something in a short term. So what I would say to you actually five up is that like, you know, if people respond to someone making a mistake with toxicity, you can model the right kind of behavior. And if you chip away at that long enough, you'll start to see a change. The other thing, I mean, you can even use some particular techniques if you really want to get into it.

But you can help people understand their toxicity. And it can be as simple as like, hey, everyone is. jumping down XQC's throat right now or my throat, it's hard for yourself. But if someone, you know, if someone makes a mistake and everyone jumps on them, you can ask people, hey, I'm noticing that a lot of people are jumping down this person's throat. You know, what's going on there? You can ask an open-ended question or you can even pull a Dr. K and ask, like, how do you guys feel about this person making a mistake? And then as you bring attention and awareness to the behavior, it tends to get better. Like, once people realize what they're doing,

that they're actually channeling their frustration out on someone else. And if you can bring attention to it, it'll kind of slow down. Okay. I mean, I feel like I've done at least that to a degree when I try to as much as possible. It just doesn't feel like the result is much, I guess. Right. So that's where you have to think a little bit about what is your, when you say the result doesn't,

it doesn't feel like the result as much. So that you have to pay attention to like how calibrated that instrument is and what are your expectations? Right. So what's your ability to detect change in an Among Us game? Are you expecting that patterns that have been reinforced through years of gaming and blaming other people because that's what games tend to make us do are going to be wiped away by one comment or a dozen comments or comments over the course of three months? No, obviously not. Well, I don't know, right? So what's your expectation on, like, what would change look like?

Like, what are you looking for? Um, I just don't want, like, my ideal world, I guess, is if someone makes a mistake in the game, um, whether, I mean, so Hafu is the main person I play with, um, the game really, really good friends with her, um, I guess they're among us. And there is so much blatant, I guess, sexism. Like, if she does something that, like, she catches me in a lie or someone makes a dumb play in that lobby, then the chat will just go, like, rampant, like, pure rampage on, like, I hate this person. They caught, like, it's, people are so invested into what happens towards. me in a game where I understand what the game's about. But even when I try to, like, I defend people 24-7, I guess.

And that's the biggest, like, I don't, it's hard to control that. Okay. Is there some way to observe an Among Us game? I mean, watching a stream, I guess. Or what do you mean by observing? Like, are you guys on a Discord call or like, how does that work? We are on Discord, yes. So, like, everyone who's in the game is on Discord.

Yes, so we play the round. We're all muted. And then when a body is found, we all unmute and talk in the meeting. And there's no looking at chat during the game because people will say spoilers. So I can't control my chat while I'm alive in the game unless I'm an imposter. So if I'm a crewmate, it's all mods responsibility. Can I actually watch this? Like, can I sit in a Discord call with you guys one day?

Sure. I don't want to actually play the game. Is there like an observer position in the game? You would have to watch a stream. There's no spectator. There's no spectator. Okay. I'm just a little bit curious.

Now I find myself being curious about what y'all's actual interactions look like. It's, like, anyway. So that's one thought. Because I feel like if you wanted more advice about how to handle that, it's just such a unique environment that I don't know. I feel like me just watching it once, I'd actually be able to answer your question way better. Okay. Because I played, like I said, I played Among Us once.

And like it was like with our community and like our community's like super healthy. Like everyone cares about each other and shit. So I feel like I didn't even, I haven't been, I haven't seen this world that you're talking about. I've been in the kiddie pool and you guys are like swimming in the English channel. and it's just not it's not the same at all um yeah

just watch any um among this stream where someone gets caught I guess so the reactions five up I want to if it's okay with you

I want to try to circle back and like share something with you in a sensical way before we wrap up is that cool sure so a lot of people have been asking um you know

I kind of early on I sort of said that I think like you're you're spiritually gifted and people are kind of confused by what that means. I'm sure you're confused by what that means. So that's kind of like I just want to address that for a second and do something that I do kind of rarely, which is like advise you. So five up. So it seems to be like, you know, like I kind of said earlier, you were born with good RNG. So you have a certain kind of like mine. So it sounds like you're intelligent. It sounds like you grew up. you know, I'm not hearing any, any inkling of, like, abuse or anything like that, although maybe it's just really, really well hidden. But I'm not hearing that you struggle with any negative emotions. Or not when I say, it's not that you don't have negative emotions. It seems like you're pretty good at, like, kind of processing with them, processing them, dealing with them, things like that. And when I kind of ask you, like, okay, what are you going to do in your life?

And it sounds like you've got a strong internal compass that sort of is like, yeah, college is not actually something that I need to do. do, so I'm not going to do it. I'm not hearing, I mean, this could be there, but, you know, I'm not hearing that you in high school were thought that you should go to a place like Harvard or Yale or whatever, Stanford, and that you were afraid that you wouldn't get in, so you, like, decided not to apply at all. I'm not getting that whiff. Did you have those kinds of thoughts or feelings? There's a big element of comparing myself to my brother where

we didn't dive too far into this, I guess, for the school. My brother was a complete straight A, like beyond honor student. And then because of the situations that I learned from like the first eight years of school, I guess, where it didn't matter. Like it felt like my perception of school was, all taught, at least the school that I went to, I live in Arizona. The way the school systems work here is they pay the teachers based off of the grades people get, not just for the students. So a lot of the teachers would inflate people's grades just so they get better pay also. So I realized that

it was all teaching to the test and not necessarily teaching people. And I heavily disagreed with that. and it made me lose heavy interest in school. So it was, here's my brother getting perfect grades, because he knew what he wanted to do, and that required stuff, like really good grades to get in. And then I just had a complete loss of interest in all of that because of how the system worked.

So it wasn't necessarily that I got good grades, but it was like, here I am not necessarily doing the best in school. But that's off my own volition, but here's my brother doing the best. And it's like, well, I mean, there is the pressure from family to do very well. So not necessarily like Harvard, but there is good school. They're like, you know, probably should go to that potentially. Okay, so maybe I've misjudged this.

I don't think I'm entirely wrong. But that sounds way more of sometimes what happens. So maybe that's worth, you know, exploring a little bit further. Unfortunately, I have to get going in a few minutes, but it may be far more pedestrian than I thought in terms of just standard comparison and stuff, and I apologize for not exploring that with you. I think that was also my fault for not going to that degree, because that's definitely important. Yeah, so, but let's kind of just circle back to this idea of like spiritually gifted, because I still think that that's true. So then I think the next thing to kind of

I think about is that like you seem to have you know streaming success kind of dumped in your lap like you sort of fell into it. And you're kind of like focusing on like fun for now and things like that. And and you're kind of like, okay, what am I going to do that will give me more freedom? What am I going to do that I enjoy? And it seems to be like you kind of just put those together. And like, you know, you move in the direction that is good for your like long term security. And that is like, enjoyable. I'm not hearing you as the kind of person who will like sacrifice eight years of your life to become a doctor if you don't enjoy doing that. Right? Mm-hmm. And so the other interesting thing is that I do think you genuinely have a fair amount of detachment. And what I mean by that is that if you're streaming career tanked in a year, I think you would be okay with that. You'd sort of be sad because you recognize that you maybe had an opportunity that you missed or you squandered something. or something along those lines,

maybe you screwed up in some way, and so you'd be kind of sad about that, but you'd also be, like, relatively calculating and sort of think about, okay, how could I do it better next time? But overall, I'm getting the sense that you're going to be okay. And here's what I would tell you five up. The first thing is that if at some point you feel directionless,

you know, I do think that there is a system of exploration, of the self and the meaning of life and things like that, which I think may be interesting to you and hopefully helpful, which is sort of like this Eastern perspective on like life and in karma and things like that. I'm not trying to, you know, say, like, you don't have to, it's not about religion. It's just about, when I think about religion, I tend to think about like belief systems and sort of like, you know, faith and things like that. it's really more an exploration of like how stuff works. It's about understanding what are the different way.

Like why are we here? Like how does this stuff work? What should I do with my life? What is the nature of happiness? Where does happiness come from? Where does desire come from? You strike me as someone who would really, really enjoy and probably benefit from some amount of formal instruction and this kind of stuff.

Because I think you figure a lot of this stuff out on your own. and all I'm telling you is that, you know, you may, like, it's kind of like you're working through the laws of physics on your own. And it's like, hey, by the way, there's a physics textbook you can read. Which you should still question. You know, and by all means you should question. It's a big part of it. But I think that, you know, you may find a lot of value in that because I think that a lot of the common wisdom may not apply to you. Because I think you're different, five up.

and for people that I've met who are sort of like you, they tend to find a lot of solace and direction in some of these texts. The next thing that I would say to you is that I think that you're going to sort of gradually feel empty if you continue this path for a long time. I don't think you should deviate from it now. But what I mean is that right now you're sort of leaning towards the next strategically best thing that fills you with the most. enjoyment from day to day.

The thing that challenges you the most, the thing that gives you a sense of mastery. And you're going to do that, right? Like you said, you're going to do baking for a little while and then, like, don't get too cut up in baking because I'm going to move on to something. Agree. You're going to learn three languages. You're going to learn how to bake. You're going to stream some.

And then you'll get to be 25 and then you'll get to be 30 and you'll get to be 35. And you'll have accumulated a lot of skills. And then that process, and this is the real point that I've been trying to make, that process of chasing after one thing at a time until you sort of master it and move on is going to start to feel empty. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And that's why I'm telling you, like, I've talked to you when you're 30 and I've talked to you when you're 45, and that's what I've seen from people like you. And then ultimately, what brings these people happiness is like a stark and difficult exploration that's in

entirely internal. And if you have questions about that, or if at some point you feel directionless, or you feel like you have difficulty, you know, and you don't know what to do with your life, like, you know,

shoot me a DM. Because I may be able to give you some concrete recommendations at that time. All right. I'll remember that. Does that? No, yeah, that makes a lot of things.

Okay. That's basically what I was trying. Because I think, like, you can't live normal people's lives if you're not a normal person. And I think you've already figured that out. And there may be some stuff around comparison and ego

and not being able to live up to expectations and stuff. But at the end of the day, I think you can keep on doing what you're doing, but you'll move from one thing to the next to the next to the next. And you may feel accomplished and you may feel like you're progressing, but it'll start to feel empty, is my guess. Yeah, I can... I mean, that is a worry that I've had.

So I've thought about that a little bit. So I definitely know what you're saying. But I would also say that like there's no, it's worth it for you to go down that road. So you feel that worry very genuinely. I don't know. I'm not saying you should avoid that is what I'm saying. No, I mean, I. I'm definitely still going to pursue a lot of my goals.

Yeah, yeah. I think you should. Absolutely. Any last questions for me, five up? Not so much question, but more of like a thank you for talking to me, I guess, having that time. Yeah, of course, man. I feel like I kind of owe you an apology because I'm not sure how helpful this was.

And I really do try to help people. But I don't know, maybe it's not having the cam. I'm not quite sure. No, I mean, I think it was, if anything, like, no matter how helpful it was, I mean, talking to a person is also nice about the things and advice about it from a different perspective. It's always really good. Yeah, I feel like I have a karmic debt that needs to be paid in this conversation. I feel like what I'm supposed to give you, I haven't given you yet. Hmm.

I think you have to a very big degree, but also I don't think I've given you the means to, like, I don't think I know what I need to give to help you also, I guess. Possible. I don't need, just to clarify, I don't need you to, it's just a feeling I'm sharing with you. Okay. It's not a particular response I'm looking for. But, you know. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was just letting you know.

Maybe we can talk more about your brother. Sure. So, listen, thank you very much. And are you interested in learning meditation, five up? Sure. I mean, I've, yeah. What am I going to teach you? Have you watched our, have you learned alternate and hostile breathing?

I don't think so. Actually, we're going to do a different one for you. Um, okay, give me a second. Okay, so I'm going to do something a little bit different for you. Okay, I want you to close your eyes. Okay. And listen to the sound of your breath. Can you hear it?

Mm-hmm. Um, and so what I want you to do is phonetically spell out the sound of the breath. That's hard? Yep. Hmm. So can you? give me anything. Give me a bad answer before a good one.

You want me to say it out loud? Sure. Whatever you've got, whatever you, whatever you can think of. I think it's like, inhaling is a lot of like S's and exhaling is a lot of H's. Okay.

Good. So practice it for a couple of weeks and then let me know and just see if you can figure it out. Okay. Okay. That's difficult. All right.

Yeah. So it requires practice. And it requires you focusing your attention on something relatively internal. But I think for definitely for you five up, you want, well, I mean, you can learn formal meditation at some point. But I think an investigative technique is definitely the way for you to start. Okay. And the last thoughts or questions before you wrap up? Good answer, by the way. You're on the right track.

Okay. I don't think I have a question that comes to mind right now. Anything from your side, I guess? Nope. That's it. All right. Yeah, take care. All right. Well, thank you for having me. Thanks for coming on, Five Up. And I really do want to watch one of y'all's Among Us streams now.

Yeah, we usually play at 8 p.m. PSD, or it's not 8 p.m. 8 a.m. PST go all the way to like generally 2 p.m. or not 2 p.m. 1 p.m. Okay. And sometimes we do night streams. Okay, cool. Sounds good. All right. Take care, man. I guess I'm, thank you you too. Bye. Bye.