HealthyGamerGG - The Problem After Puer Aeternus

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

In this episode Dr. K sits down with content creator BSJ to discuss the hidden psychological weight that remains after tackling Puer Aeternus (the eternal youth). They explore how moving past the "commitment-phobe" phase is only the beginning of the journey, leading into a deeper dive into perfectionism, conditional love, and the "monster in the basement" that drives high-achievers to punish themselves even after they succeed. Key Topics:• Beyond Puer Aeternus: Why simply "taking the plunge" into a career or relationship is not the end goal, but rather the start of deeper psychological healing. • The Origins of Perfectionism: A powerful look at how childhood experiences—like being reminded of the two missed free throws instead of the eight successful ones—lead to an adulthood defined by constant self-critique. • The Weight of Being "Hard on Yourself": Understanding why high-achievers use self-induced pain as a motivational system and the immense mental exhaustion it causes over time. • The Role of Blame in Healing: Why Dr. K suggests that you must accurately place blame for childhood damage before you can truly forgive and move past it. • The Loneliness of "Leveling Up": Exploring the isolation that often accompanies emotional growth, as shifting your life path can create a wedge between you and your old peer groups. HG Coaching : https://bit.ly/46bIkdo Dr. K's Guide to Mental Health: https://bit.ly/44z3Szt HG Memberships : https://bit.ly/3TNoMVf Products & Services : https://bit.ly/44kz7x0 HealthyGamer.GG: https://bit.ly/3ZOopgQ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at Redfin.com. Own the dream.

You said you were over him, but his hoodie is stealing your rotation. It's time. Grab your phone, snap a few picks, and sell it on Deepop, listed in minutes, with no selling fees. And just like that, a guy 500 miles away just paid full price for your closure. And right on cue. Hey, still got my hoodie? Nope. But I've got tonight's dinner paid for.

Start selling on Deepop, where Taste recognizes taste. List now with no selling fees. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. website for details. Hey, chat. Welcome to the Healthy Gamer Gigi podcast. I'm Dr. Al-Ocinoja, but you can call me Dr. K. I'm a psychiatrist, gamer, and co-founder of Healthy Gamer.

On this podcast, we explore mental health and life in the digital age, breaking down big ideas to help you better understand yourself and the world around you. So let's dive right in. It's kind of weird. So, you know, Freud said depression is when anger gets turned inwardly. At the time, my dad said, just come home. care of you. And I said, no, that's not what I want. I want to push through it. I want to, like, figure it out. And because of that entire act and forth, I didn't talk to him for about a year and a half.

He said, I don't know what happened between us, but I want to have a relationship with my son. Do you blame your dad? I wouldn't say I blame him, no. I think you should try. All right, y'all, before we dive into this video, I got to set the stage a little bit. A couple months ago, I made this video on something called Pueira Aternus, and it really resonated with a bunch of people. We're just sort of existing, right? We sort of live this life where we're like trying to keep our options open and we can't lock into one thing because what if it is the wrong thing? So a friend of mine, a guy named BSJ, Banana Slam Jama, a former Dota Pro, Dota 2 content creator analyst, reached out to me and he said, hey, this concept of Puaire totally resonated with me. I'd love it if you had some time to talk about it.

So I said, okay, BSJ, like, let's talk about it. And if you're someone who's struggling with Puerre, I think this video highlights one really important concept. which is that working through Puere is not the end of the journey. That's not the goal. It's just the beginning. But the cool thing is that BSJ, he's very driven, very driven dude. He'd actually done a lot of work. And so as we were sort of talking about the Puer issue, we started to uncover other things. And so that's what this video is really about. I hope you guys will really enjoy it because it sort of goes back to what we used to do a lot more on this channel, which is have these really deep meandering conversations that sort of start out with this one problem,

but then end in a completely different place. So I hope you guys enjoy, if y'all enjoy our older long-form content, this is going to be right up your alley. Can you fill me in on? Because last time we talked, you were doing some, you'd gotten some offer to build some kind of like educational thing with that that dude who had

built the like Rocket League thing. In the last three or four months, I don't know how much of it needs to be touched on, but just including what you just mentioned. I had my friend group in the Netherlands basically implode over the matter of like two weeks like in the middle of summer. And there was like a lot of intertwined like things happening at the same time. And so basically my life went through like a whole. hard reset in the middle of the summer where I moved into a new house. I basically started from

scratch in regards to connections in the Netherlands. But in regards to the community, I did decide to go on that endeavor, that endeavor has been pursued. It's not just about the community. It's much more about really teaching people in a way that means something to me, not just like, here's how you last it. More emotional intelligence, more connection between me and the students, more personalized coaching that is is trying to reach them on a deeper level that hits outside of Dota as well as within Dota. Yeah, it's been a transformative three or four months. So I mean, I have a set of questions, but let's start with. So you watch this Puaire video. And I don't know if you, I told you don't watch number two. And I don't know if you saw number three. But so, so if you,

if you have watched those, no biggie because I, you know, I was like cold off because I thought we would do it in a week. But it's been a while. So, so can you tell you. me a little bit about your experience of watching those videos, what resonated with you and what you, why you reached out? Yeah, I mean, I decided to take some notes because I rewatched. I had this realization that I needed to like rewatch them like three weeks ago. I think it was even before I knew I was doing this interview. Okay. Like four, four weeks ago. You know, I took a, I took a bunch of notes of all the things that hit hard. I wasn't sure if you'd like me to mention one now or if you, I'm just trying to figure out. So you DM'd me, right? And so, and so

I'm trying to figure out, because it's been months, and sorry about that. So I'm just trying to figure out what, you know, where you want to pick up and how I can be helpful. So I definitely took the plunge. Okay. There were certain aspects of my life, funnily enough, where I looked back and I'm like, I used to be a poor about this. So right now in my life, I know that I'm really struggling with it with my job as well as other things that I do have on here. that some are not as crystallized of like exactly how they manifest themselves in my life. But there's just like certain things I wanted to talk about, I guess.

So I'll just go straight into Puera to make sure we, you know, we do hit that point because I do have questions. So an example, one of the things about Puera is, you know, you mentioned that it's it's dreading the ordinary and also this kind of idea that you're like above something. You're like above a task. That's never something that I've ever, like, said out loud, or like even internally where I'm like, I think I'm above this. Like, I never even had that internal narrative, at least consciously. I guess I can't help but shake sometimes this, the feeling of a task being not worthy of my time. Okay. Even though I know I need to do it.

So that is definitely a feeling I related heavily to. Okay. And it's sometimes chores. It's sometimes like, I could go to the gym. for this amount of effort. But then I find out that if I want to take better care of my skin, I also have to shower at the gym, which means I have to pack my backpack worth full of stuff, which spends like an extra 15 minutes of the gym. Suddenly I'm now spending an hour and 30 minutes at the gym instead of 75, and I will dwell on that. It's like, I ping pong on it, because

it's like, I know what's freaking happening. Like, I know what this is. I felt like it's explained by everything in the poor video, but I'm still doing it. So, so what's, okay, so that's, that's something, do you want to shower more at the gym? Um, it's better for my skin. Like, it means that I, like, if I don't do it, I'll usually, like, break out a little bit or something like that. Okay. So it's an example of, like, a very small thing where I'm like, I see a tangible takeaway from

this. It makes sense to me. I, it's not worth having a breakout to, like, not shower at the gym. And I still, like, shower when I get home anyways. It's just, like, that extra effort of packing the bag and, like, getting, undressed and dressed at the gym and stuff. So yeah, there's like a clear reason I want to do it and it matters to me. And yet I'm like, this should not be that hard.

Like that's my thought. I'm with you. So is there are, but I mean, so are there other things that you feel like are beneath you? I'd say that is a lot more about my job. Like when I think about chores and stuff, it's much more expected value. But when I think about my job, I feel like I will run away from the work that I know is dreary. and I'm only recently become able to at least try to push through it. But it takes, like, so much mental effort for me to, like, do 30 minutes of boring shit,

basically. And I do feel like the attitude in my head is I'm one of the best Dota players in the world theoretically. I could be spending my time making some sick video or playing pubs or whatever. And instead, I'm making. my desk look cleaner. I'm at the point where I can kind of push through it, but that's the kind of stuff where, yeah,

it doesn't, it sounds so bad when I say it all loud that I think it's like beneath me, but I think that's like what my brain is thinking, that I could be doing other things more important. I'd say, I don't know if that's. So is that something that, so let's just structure a little bit. So do you want to tell me what the other things are and then kind of go through them,

or you want to talk about this thing, or what would you prefer? Like, how many things do you have on your list? I can go through. I can give, like, a brief glimpse of all this stuff. Okay. Another thing was that my entire approach in my 20s to my career was trying to have as many options, be on a pro team, be a streamer, be a content creator, be a coach, be a panelist.

I was doing, at one point in my life, I was doing literally panelists, streaming, professional play, and YouTube, and coaching, all the same. same time. And only until the last few months have I actually tried to endeavor on one thing. So, like, I think I tried to really embrace the idea of, in order to exceed potential, you have to reduce it or, like, to exceed your expectations or whatever, the limitations, you have to, like, reduce your potential. Another thing that I was actually curious, because I'm not sure if it's pertaining to Puere. So something I've noticed a lot with Dota players, obviously it applies to me if I say that, is that they have this idea.

that other people should know what to do and that if the game goes according to how they think it should go, then they'll be perfect. Like, they'll own the game. And in my head, I'm thinking, like, that's the equal, that's the dodo equivalent of saying, like, if the external circumstances are perfect, I'm 15K. Like, I'm just the best player in the world. What I noticed is that how difficult it is for me to, to see that somebody is doing something I don't like, because my first instinct is to think that they should do that, whether it's because there's something I wanted them to do or because they should know better, hypothetically, like, you're 12K, you should know how to pull the brick and creeps as a support kind of thing.

Just as a arbitrary example. And I hear that type of rhetoric and dialogue from a lot of other Dota players. And I'm wondering if this, like, expectation of your teammates is correlating to where in some way? Yeah. So your potential is easy to live up to if everybody. else does what they're supposed to do. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a great connection, right? It's so simple. And that's very common, where Puerre's will frequently, you know, look at their situation in life and attribute their lack of manifestation to the failures of the people around them. If everybody did what they were supposed to do, this company would have been successful. If my CFO had done this, if my CTO had done this. there's absolutely a tendency to absolve responsibility, right? Like you said, if everybody else did what they were supposed to, I would be 15K.

Yeah, it's my teammates hold me back. That's like the most, obviously the most common meme. In my head, I'm like, is that not just Puir? Like, is that not just the same shit? Like, obviously there could be other stuff involved with it, but... Yeah, I think it's connected. Changing your life isn't easy. When I was flunking out of college,

I had to travel all the way to an ashram in India to begin a seven-year journey to put my life back together. Unfortunately, that option isn't available to everyone. That's why I've taken most of what I've learned, distilled it into the most important points, not just from India, but also my years of training as a psychiatrist, into our coaching program. Coaches will help you set appropriate goals, maintain motivation, and hold you accountable. Thousands of people from all over the world have tried HG coaching and have seen sustained improvements in purpose and direction in life, and even reductions in feelings of depression and anxiety. So if you're interested in putting your life together, but don't have seven years to wander around India, definitely check out HG coaching. Are there other things on your list? Yeah, I mean, I have like, I guess the biggest thing that hit me when you said it and I was like, that's pre-empt, is when you talked about blaming your past self as a circumstance. I think it's something I've worked really hard to get rid of.

And so it doesn't necessarily have to be talked about as much. but this whole idea that when something goes wrong, I'm no longer responsible anymore. Like, and that can be whether my teammate ruined the game, but it can also be like, I understand that my, like, I stopped playing well here, but my teammate ruined the game. I know I died a few times in lane,

so that, like, made the game harder, but, you know, and then like this narrative of like, that's their version of taking accountability. I see this a lot. And I know I used to do that a ton, and I feel like I still kind of do it, And I feel like it's like this, it created in my 20s, especially, this idea that there were some viewers who were like, yeah, he takes responsibility all the time. And then there's other people that are like, he never really, he like always blames other people.

And I'm wondering if that dynamic is accounted, like the dynamic of some people thinking you take accountability and some people thinking you blame others, like when they're seeing the exact same situation. is that accounted for by this blaming of your past self effectively, like where that's my version of accountability? I don't, so I think that you're adding another layer there, which is other people's perceptions of your stuff, right? So I can kind of see how they're connected, but I think you're adding a variable. So then it becomes,

it's not that it isn't relevant or accurate or true or connected. I just think it's, now you're adding other people's perceptions, that's a whole different ballgame. If we look at Puaire, it's, I mean,

there are elements of how other people perceive you. Right? So one of the, one of the diagnostic features of Puaire is, I mean, can absolutely be the perception of others. So other people will sort of view as this person who's kind of like,

has a bunch of potential, but is lazy, or is someone who is kind of like smooth, but flaky, you know, can juggle a lot of things, but sometimes is unreliable. So on that level, I think so. But when you start talking about differential perceptions from one thing, I think that has to do with more of what's in the eye of the beholder. I see. But, I mean, blaming your past self, what do you mean by that?

So it sounds like that resonated with you. Can you illustrate that a little bit? I did it a lot with my career where, you know, I said like, I could have been a tier one pro player if I hadn't made this mistake back then. And I'm like, when I look back on it, I'm like, in reality, I never actually did anything with that. Like, I didn't like change course or because I was still like 27, 28 at the time when I thought that kind of stuff. And I feel like I never actually got over that in the sense that, like, I didn't. Like, I never resolved that. I feel like I probably do this, and I'm prone to doing it.

I know I do it an individual Dota game sometimes, like where I literally, like I said, I made this mistake at five minutes. That's my responsibility. Like, I know I made this game hard. And rather than, like, what did I do at 25 minutes? Like, what happened here? It's like, I already made this game hard at five minutes. I should have just not been here in the first place.

And I feel like the way I do it is that I have this, this mistake could, have just been avoided. So let's not even worry about learning to solve this problem that I'm in, because I should have just avoided this in the first place. I guess that's the best way I could explain how it manifests. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of, um, Poir's hate to work with a faulty start. Like, like the way that I kind of think about this is, I don't know if you've ever played sieve, but, no, but I know what the type of game is. Yeah. You know, Sometimes, like, when I play Siv, I would re-roll my start until it was like epic, right? Because there's a certain amount of RNG.

I can relate to this. And you just keep on re-rolling. And you want to start from perfection. You don't want to take something that is, like, cracked or flawed. And then, like, because, you know, at the end of the day, it doesn't, it doesn't really matter too much. I mean, like, in a sense, it does. But, you know, all the starts are relatively balanced. and there are some more unicorn-oriented starts.

So I think there's absolutely an element of like throwing in the towel when things don't start off the way that ideal. Because then if you sort of think about starting ideal, then you can live up to your potential in a way that is, you know, that you can't if you start off kind of fractured. Yeah. I guess for me, I mean,

a lot of what I was learning in my life, life in the last month or two, like, outside of this, that I feel like overlaps is trying to be more in the present, I guess, like, when I'm thinking about, I don't remember you, I think you made a video on this, too, where it's like being more contextual with what's happening around you rather than making a decision based on these, like, generalized conclusions that you've made about yourself. And I'm trying to remember where I was going with this, but I I feel like I really do struggle to let myself like, okay, here's an example of how it plays out in a Dota game.

If I have a series of seven buttons that I'm supposed to push perfectly, I'll either push all seven correctly or I'll push the third one incorrectly and I'll just fuck up the other four as well. Like, because I have like, it's this, it's like this, for me it's like this lack of checking that I did something. Like there's no confirmation. There's like an assumption that I made it perfect because that's the only way that I'll accept it anyway. So I might as well assume that it was perfect.

And just in my head, I move on to the next thing. And then I end up saying literally on stream, I swear I push that button. Like what the fuck happened? I pushed the button. And there's weird things in Dota like back swing mechanics and shit where you could push a button, but it doesn't register if you push it at the wrong time and stuff like this. So and I feel like I dwell on the. one mistake along the way and I have a really tough time

re-centering whether it's in the moment like in a team fight or whether it's in real life as well like I feel like that's an in the moment kind of thing but even if I like if I'm I'm like trying to construct classes for my for my for my community and when I'm in the middle of the class and I feel like it's derailing in a way that I wasn't prepared for I think I handle it a bit better but I still get like really more uncomfortable than I think I'm that is it's disproportionate I think to what like I'm like I'm kind of freeze up I panic a little bit stuff like that um okay is that your list that's a good enough list for now I think I I could maybe list one more if you if you because it might be the most

relevant actually yeah it's the most relevant I think because it just literally happened two weeks ago Okay. This whole idea of having like a perfect fantasy life, like this whole fantasy world that you live in inside your head. There's two examples that I have in my life that I immediately think of. I have this really, I don't want to say bad habit, I'll just say what I do. I'm learning Dutch. I am a perfectionist and I'm working on it, recovering perfectionist or whatever.

And I will be about to go order a coffee. And I will play that conversation through in my head a hundred times. on the way walking to coffee and then thinking about how i'm going to say it perfectly and all that kind of stuff and then when i get there at the first sign of like they can tell i'm not from the netherlands i start speaking english uh like that that's one example um that i would just love some insight on what's happening there uh because i'm aware i'm like this isn't helping i just need to literally talk and like on the way to walking to the coffee shop i'm just like i'm doing this. Stop playing the song, like stop playing the conversation in your head. If you play it in

your head, then you ain't going to have it. Like that's, like that's, I mean, that was at least the connection I made so far. Um, but then the other one is that I have this, um, and this might be a different subject. I'm not 100% sure, but I, I, when I plan things for other people, um, specifically my girlfriend in this case, like I took her to Disneyland with my mom and my mom and I have like a really long like I had a lot of childhood memories in Disneyland and so I had this idea of this trip being like perfect and like every single sign of the trip not being perfect compared to like what I had in my head I started getting really anxious that my girlfriend wasn't having a nice time when like in reality she's like this is awesome I've never been to Disneyland

like that's that's like the reality of the situation and during the trip itself I really said to her, I feel bad because I feel like I'm somehow not enjoying this when I know I am. Like, I know I am enjoying this trip. I'm having a really nice time. These are fun rides. I love my mom.

I love my girlfriend. And yet, I can't shake this feeling that it's, like, not living up to what it could have been. Like, even though it is great. And it is, so I guess, like, I heard it a lot about work. Like, you pursue dreams and stuff.

And that it ends up being, dreary work, but then I feel like it's more so happening to me in fun things. Like it's making fun things less fun because I paint this perfect picture of what I'm looking forward to and then it obviously doesn't match it because it's, at the end of the day, it's just a theme park. It's a nice place to be, but it's just a theme park. What's it like being in your head? That's a funny question. I'd say tiring. Sounds like it. Yeah, I'd say tiring.

Most common problem I'd bounce back from and forth is like, I'm really tired. And then I realize what I'm doing that makes me tired and I feel better for like a week. And then I'm, I'll go do it with something else. And I'm like, I'm tired again. What makes being in your head so tired? why is it a tiring place to be? I mean, my gut reaction is just how many hypotheticals I run through in my head. That's my gut reaction.

Like, an example of, like, the Dutch conversation, like, that's just one example where I feel like I sometimes do that in the Dota game. I feel like I do that when I'm about to talk to somebody about something that is not, exactly a pleasant conversation. It's like in my head, I think it's healthy to be prepared for whatever. But then I, because that's part of how I've been dealing with anxiety because I have struggle with anxiety. So I'm like, I have to prepare somewhat to kind of like give myself the strength to go do it. But then I feel like I spend so much time preparing.

It's almost like you've full of. philosophize yourself out of actually doing the thing, I guess. I still do that. I mean, what's it, how do you treat yourself in your head? How do I treat myself? I mean, I'm definitely hard on myself. That's like probably obvious to anyone who ever listens to a fraction of this conversation. I am very hard on myself.

How is that, how is that obvious? What are the signals that you're giving that would make that obvious to someone? I'm pretty consistently told by people that I give a shit about things that I should just chill about. Okay. So I guess when I say that I am hard on myself, I say that I feel like I'm consistently told just let it go. Like whether it's a mistake I made, whether it's something that bothered me, whether it's... Um... Does it feel like your...

Does it feel like you're hard on yourself? It does, I think. I'm questioning it, but I do feel like I'm hard on myself. Do you deserve to be hard on yourself? Is it appropriate to be hard on yourself? Is it good to be hard on yourself? I don't think, no, I don't think any of those apply. Yeah.

I don't deserve it, no, it's good or appropriate. It doesn't help. Being hard on yourself, like, doesn't make you do a better job or pull through in tough situations or be more reliable or be happier. Like, it doesn't help me and it doesn't help the people around me. I just become less helpful. So, or like less, uh, not helpful. I become, I think consistent and reliable is like the word I would, the words I would

use for like, when I'm hard on myself, I'll go into like a shell and then I'll, it creates a lot of the roller coaster, I guess. How does it feel to be hard on yourself? When you say feel, do you mean like a literal emotion or? Yes. I mean, not restricted to that, but sure. I'd say heavy. Is it bad?

Yeah, it feels pretty bad. Yeah. Do you like it? No. Okay. What's it like when other people are hard on you for you being hard on yourself? Doesn't help. What do you want?

What do you want? you want people to do when you're hard on yourself? To acknowledge the thing I'm being hard about my on myself matters. Matters to you. Yeah. And so if it matters to you, there's a good reason you're being hard on yourself. And if there's a good reason to be hard on yourself, it's good to be hard on yourself. If you put it like that, yeah. Right? I mean, if you weren't hard on yourself, what would happen? Uh, You might, like, sway off the... I feel like you would lose motivation, perhaps, or...

I don't know about... I mean, maybe, yeah, maybe motivation. Try less hard or... Yeah, and if you tried less hard, what would happen? If you lowered the standard to which you hold yourself, where would you end up? Laceant, maybe? Yeah, I think you'd end up as a janitor.

Right? I mean, I guess, like... Yeah. Right? Good callback. So you've got a lot of potential to live up to, Brian. You can do great things, but not if you have asset. I don't actually know what you're trying to tell me right now.

I feel like I kind of just got like, I'll be honest with you. I don't care if this goes out there. 99% of people I talk to, I feel like I'm like, I feel like I'm more emotionally aware than this person. And it's like there's things I'm seeing that they're not seeing. And there's like sometimes where I'm just like, it got me. Like this person sees right through me.

It happens sometimes. And I don't even know what you're seeing. But you're one of the few people when I talk to it. And I'm just like, he's aware of some shit that I'm just, I don't even know what, I don't even know what the shit is. Like his question was good.

It made me think, but, and I see what he's saying, but then I don't even know what I'm supposed to do with that. And I, and I don't get that feeling very often is what I'm trying to say. Okay. So,

So I need to clarify something here. So am I hitting or am I missing? You don't need to make sense of it yet. We'll do that. That'll come. But is it in the right direction? I mean, it felt like what you said was news to me, meaning like the question, like this whole idea of like,

maybe I'm being hard on myself for being hard on myself because other people are being hard on me for being hard on myself. so I'm taking that, like I'm interpreting my hardness on myself through a lens. Yeah, so, so I don't know if that's, so I mean, I think there are a couple of things here. There are a couple of different themes. So one thing that I want to point out, I think this may hopefully help you will see, but I, I was struck by how much. So you did something really interesting. So up until about maybe five, seven minutes ago, you. you were talking about your internal experience.

And then you made a shift to how other people perceive you. So, so, like, even when we were talking about being hard on yourself, that was not coming from the inside. So when you were talking about the cost of being hard on yourself, you were looking at yourself from the outside. You were making sort of this, like, you're doing a replay analysis. You're not in the game. and you're making it doing a replay analysis and you're saying okay when you are hard on yourself

it does not help therefore i should not be hard on yourself hard on myself hard on myself does that kind of make sense yeah i see what you're saying and you were also talking about well well it started with this statement when you said when people look at me it's obvious to them that i am xxx and then i was like hold on a second it's obvious to them but what's it like for you right so what are you perceiving that other people it's so clear to everybody else but in your head it's different and i think one of the biggest things to understand is that you're hard on yourself for a very good reason this even though it causes you suffering it is like critical to the way that you function does that make sense so what do you do when people who support you

like it's not just like haters and stuff too it's like people really close to me in my life it's people who are part of my community that are definitely wanting what's best for me what do you do when they're hard on you for being hard on yourself i i think that's not we'll go there later so what the way that you deal with other people is not nearly as powerful is the way that you deal with yourself right so when someone is hard on me that's the most important variable to deal with that is the way that I am with myself. So if someone is like mean or abusive to me, it is my confidence or lack of confidence,

my sense of self-worth or lack of self-worth that is going to determine someone else's impact on me. So I would say we'll get there, but let's start with you. Yeah, I can probably jump in the gun. No, you're not jumping the gun. I think it's the way that you think about it. Right? So your mind doesn't go to, I need to change the way that I talk to myself. It's like your mind goes to how do I deal with the people who are hard on me for being when I'm hard on myself? Like what do I do about that? Which is very adaptive. So that's your big thing is you're very adaptive. You're always learning, always growing, always improving. Whether you're a coach, whether you're an analyst, whether you're a professional player, whether you're a boyfriend, whether you're a community leader, whether you're a manager, right? So, and, and,

And this is where I think, like, let's go, if you're okay with it, like, let's go back to the way that you talk to yourself in your head and the standard that you hold yourself to. Because I think all this stuff about throwing in the towel, you throw in the towel because you don't live up to your standard. You practice a hundred times when you're going to the coffee shop. And the moment that a non-Dutch accent comes out, you're like, fuck it. If I can't live up to the standard, you'd rather, you don't want to get a 90. you'd rather go from, if it's not 100, you'd rather have it be zero. Yeah, I see that. Right?

And this is where, when we get back to Puir, this is why you do a lot of things half-assed. They're not half-assed. A half-ass isn't really right. That's not fair. But I quickly give up, I think, is the more accurate. Right? And that's also why you kind of hedge, because it's like, then you sort of have reasons to drop down to zero. Like, it's like not your fault when things don't go well because you're doing too many things.

So you even create internal excuses for yourself. I do, yeah. Right? And that's where we get back to, you know, oh yeah, like the reason I lost this game is because my mid-fed or whatever. So I think this really starts with the way that you talk to yourself and the standard that you hold yourself to. And one question that I have is, what is the standard that you hold yourself to? What do you expect from yourself, Brian? Give me a second.

I have to think about that one. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast, Smart Move. Being financially savvy, smart move. Another smart move? Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling.

Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. I feel like I want to say that I expect myself to do the best I can in that given scenario, but that's not how I talk to myself. I feel like I talk to myself with expectation of frustration or perfection.

I mean. Yeah, so that's really good. So you have an interesting problem, which is that you've, like, layered on all this self-help, positive, adaptive, cognitive, reframing on top of the way that you really feel. And you did a really good job there of saying, this is what I think I, this is what I try to tell myself, right?

I don't know if this makes sense. There's like an upper cognition that comes from your cortices, which is what you should say, and you're trying to program yourself deeper down. Does that make sense? Yeah, I understand. Right?

So like you're telling yourself things, like, oh, this is not helpful. stop doing it. And you're trying to get yourself to like stop thinking that way. What is that thing from down here? That's the perfection. You expect perfection from yourself. Why?

That's a hard question to answer. And I can ask it in a couple of different ways, right? Maybe, let me ask you an easier one. When did you start expecting perfection from yourself? Do you remember? Very long time ago. So what makes perfection so important to you? Why can't you be less than perfect?

Oh, give me a second. I know the answer to your question. I think I was ingrained with an idea that the more perfect I was, the more my dad would love me. That'll do it, man. Yeah, that's kind of fucked, huh? I mean, I think that's life. And I know that's a weird thing to say, but even that there's a sort of. subtle value judgment there of like that's kind of, I mean, I don't like it's, yeah, obviously,

but also like, you're not fucked. And sometimes that happens to people. And life isn't perfect. And it's sad for sure. Do you want to say more about that? Like, like what, how did you learn that? I mean, because it sounds like we, you know, that answer was in you and you kind of knew it. And so I'm guessing you've thought about it before. Does a particular story come to mind or something that you feel like letting out? I mean, in this regard, my childhood is hazy in the sense that it's not as much like a specific story as it is like this idea that if I finished a basketball game and I was the best player in the game, like meaning I had a really good game or something, I would be reminded of like the two free throws that I missed or the, there was no such thing. is like celebrating the eight free throws that I made. It was like you made eight out of ten. Let's talk about how you could have made the other two. And that was like almost immediately after the game.

It was never, it wasn't like something like in practice the next day or or something like that. And I know my dad was raised in a family that was a lot about appearances. And there was a lot of elements to this growing up in Skull. Gottsdale that it's not just like my dad. It's like an entire culture of a lot of parents that view their kids as a reflection of themselves. And it's the kid's responsibility to do them proud because if you do anything wrong, it makes them look bad, basically.

And yeah, I mean, it just, I feel like my, I, what was taught to me is it doesn't matter if you're perfect. It only matters if you look like it. Are you proud of yourself? Am I proud of myself? Just like in the general sense, like right now or? Sure. Sure.

Yeah, I've had moments where I'll just say, yeah, I've felt proud of myself. I feel like I've, why is that such a hard question? So I'll ask you another one, because now we're going high ground. And so we got it. We can't let you, can't let the enemy respond. So how, how hard have you had to work to be proud of yourself?

Because I'm, I'm getting the sense that you have to do a lot of work. Like you deserve to be proud of yourself and you can look at your life and you can look at your relationship, you're moving in. When you really quiet some of those voices inside, you can see that you have a lot to be proud of. And I think you do genuinely feel that pride. But I think you have to work really hard to get there. And that there's a voice inside you that you really have to overcome almost on a case-by-case basis in order to recall that pride. The pride doesn't live with you.

It has to be recalled. Yeah, I'd say that's accurate. Right? So you can look at your life and you can say, once again, from the top down, that you have a lot to be proud of. And I know you feel that way. I don't think you could be as inspiring as you are. And hopefully that doesn't trigger all kinds of, you know, paternal transference. And here I am an older, wiser dude telling you that you're inspiring. So maybe that'll bring up stuff for you. But I really think you are. I mean, I love watching your YouTube channel.

You're basically the main YouTuber related to Dota that I watch. And I think there's a lot of good stuff there. And I think you recognize that, right? I mean, you're good. And there's a lot of authenticity. You can't be as positive as you are in a fucking game like Dota without having some real, you know, authentic, inspiring energy. But there's like this like monster in the basement that you, you know, you have to work really hard to push it back down.

And that's this hurt, I guess, related to your dad. We can get into it more. But does that resonate with you? Yeah, I mean, my immediate thought is I'm like, I don't feel like we're sticking on topic. I'm like, yeah, I'm like my immediate thought. You're correct. Yeah, I, I mean, I had actually no idea.

It's not that this is a problem. I guess in my head, like, there is that thing of, like, I do have a tendency to worry that I'm like, that I didn't set accurate expectations for, like, what this is going to be or whatever. But I also didn't have any expectations for what this is going to be. I didn't know, so. You want to know why we're not sticking on topic? Why?

Because you're past puer, bro. Hmm. I don't think it's as relevant as it is when you DM'd me like five months ago or whatever. And there's still stuff to grow. But I mean, I think like you you moved in with your girlfriend. You conquered it in some areas. You took the plunge. I think you're...

Not that it doesn't still exist and stuff like that, but I think you're past it. That's not where you are now. And it's where you were when you DM me a few months ago, absolutely. But like, you've come a long way since then. Yeah, I guess that's certainly true. You like climbed out a crusader, bro. Yeah, I, uh...

I'm not saying you don't have challenges and that, you know, there's... No, I'm not taking it that way. I'm not taking it that way. I think this is... I spent a lot of time thinking about that video and like what it said, and like it's... I guess for me, I know when you made the video that it was like... I remember you saying something like, maybe it was in the follow-up or something, but it was like, I'm going to lose like half of you, you know, and that's okay.

It's funny because ever since I've been trying to coach in a different way, I, hmm, how do I word this? I've been afraid to lose people who I'm coaching. Like, I'm afraid that I'm going to tell them something they don't want to hear. Like, I'm afraid to say basically what you just, what I said you said, which is, I'm going to, like, lose half of you. And then I've also, I guess, I've had moments where I, you know, I consciously knew that the way I was changing, what I was changing about myself, like, distanced myself from the average high-level Dota player, like the way that basically all the people who I surrounded myself with think. and I knew that I was consciously making a life shift,

effectively taking the plunge in a different direction. And yet every, I kind of like, I said I had like my friendship group implode or whatever. That had nothing to do with Dota. That was completely outside of Dota. But within Dota, I feel like like the, other than maybe one or two people, I feel like the wedge has grown wider gradually,

very fast actually in the last few months or it's not like they're enemies or something they're just I don't feel I don't feel like I like belong anymore I guess these are the type of struggles I've been dealing with lately is because my life has shifted so fast that I it's like I know what I'm doing

like I feel very good in my relationship and I feel very good in my like the decision like I feel very like it's like this was the right decision for me with what I've done with my job, but I feel very lonely, I think, would be the, I don't know if it's like this for you at all in the sense

that when you do your videos and stuff in the community, it's like, I guess how what I'm trying to say is the more I've learned, I feel like I, I'm less understood by the people that I interact with regularly.

Like in my stream and stuff, and I don't really know what to do with that. Like, it's very unpleasant and I feel very lonely. And I don't know. I've never actually said that out loud. Like, I've never said I'm lonely. Because it also feels counterintuitive to say that I feel lonely when I feel very happy in my relationship. Doing some heavy lifting today, my friend.

What does that mean? Just, I mean, this is a lot of work. Like, this is like heavy stuff. It's cognitively intense. It's emotionally intense. vulnerable. It's, you know, it's, it's not like, uh, we're not playing some like, you know, custom game and Dota. This is like high level, you know, this is high level work. I mean, you're, you're doing a lot. So let's unpack a couple things. So one is that I,

so you feel disconnected from your crowd, right? Yeah. So I think there are two, two things going on here. One is that, you know, so you have this part of you that wants to be perfect. And this is not about, and sure, it makes you feel unpleasant, but let's understand this, okay? The unpleasantness, so if you want to be perfect and you beat yourself up for not being perfect, how do you feel good about yourself. What relieves your suffering? To figure out a way to be better next time. Perfect, right?

And like, let's think about that for a second. How awesome of a motivational system. When we motivate ourselves through suffering and self-induced pain, that's way better than, like, giving ourselves a pat on the back, right? Because if you give yourself a pat on the back, like, you'll stop at five out of ten,

six out of ten, seven out of ten. but that self-punishment is really what pushes you. And it really sounds like you have internalized this thing, right? So you learned really, really early on that eight out of ten free throws is not good enough. And like you said, I mean, this is beautiful. It's not even practice the next day. It's like immediately after the game, after you've won, you're the number one player. And you're like, you know, you're getting told, how could you be better?

Right. So what do you have to do? to make this man happy. And that may bring up lots of feelings and stuff because it's, you know, we haven't talked about, I imagine, I hope you loved your dad and he loved you. And this is, you know, sometimes we, that can exist with some of this psychological pressure

and some of this personality shaping and things like that. I mean, I absolutely know with confidence that my dad did his best to love me. Like, I know he did love me or he does love me and that he, that everything he does, did was an attempt to show his love for me because I, and I think a lot of it was just misguided. Like, I hear it all the time sort of thing. Like, there are people who feel like their parents kind of threw in the towel or didn't really care about them. It's like, the one thing I know for sure is

he cared. I know for a fact he cared. I also know that, like, you know, the age old saying of, like, love isn't always enough, like, you know, whether it's in a relationship. or whether it's an apparent or father-son thing like it you know there's a lot of things that I I guess like I at one point this is like a few years ago I'm like yeah I have daddy issues I realize I have daddy issues and and I feel like I laugh at that because it's like such a weird I don't know stereotype taboo I don't I don't know like cliche actually yeah cliche um Is your dad still alive? Yeah, he's still alive.

I don't see him very often, though, because I live here in the Netherlands. And he lives in Arizona. So I feel like in a, I mean, what happened was in my early 20 is just, I guess, irrelevant is that there was a period of time where I got my perfectionism crashed because in college I was no longer able to be the best at most of the things I was doing. I actually confessed to this earlier on one of my streams. I told people, like, my idea of competitiveness has shifted drastically in, like, the last month. And it used to be that I viewed competition as a way to prove that I was better than other people and to prove that I was perfect.

And now it's like, it's a chance for me to mutually improve with somebody else. Like, that's how I've shifted competitiveness. but in my early 20s I got really depressed. I did the drop out of college. I was about to fail out of college. And then at the time, my dad said, just come home, I'll take care of you. And I said, no, that's not what I want.

I want to push through it. I want to, like, figure it out. And because of that entire back and forth, I didn't talk to him for about a year and a half. I said, like, you don't, you're, you don't understand me. You're trying to force things that I don't want. And, and, uh, I think to this day, I know because a year and a half after approximately, he said, I don't know what happened between us, but I want to have a relationship with my son.

Like, that's what he said. He's like, I love you. I want to have a relationship with my son. And so it's like, my one takeaway from that was he still does not know, like, what happened. You know, like he, I don't know if I could ever tell him either. I mean, I feel like I tried actually a few times, like in the last two or three years. I feel like I actually tried a few times. What happened?

It seemed like any time it became about our relationship, it became, like, if it was about just me or, like, struggles I was going through, that he seemed to listen. But the second, I feel like that it would, about our relationship it was kind of like

I remember exactly what he said but it was like we don't need to have this conversation it's okay man like we're good kind of response if you know what I mean I don't know

it's clear right yeah I think it's clear I mean do you I felt like I couldn't keep talking about it basically do you blame your dad

I wouldn't say I blame him no I think you should try That's a weird thing to say. Yeah, it is. We don't do it very often. Who's we and what do they don't do? Society.

So it's hard for us to hold in ourselves at the same time that we love and appreciate our parents that we're grateful for them. And sometimes they fuck up colossally. and sure it was misguided love, sure it was caring the way that he knew best, but when you've got a shitty player on your team in Dota and they go 0 and 6 in mid, and it ruins the game, it's like, sure, they're doing the best that they can, but your game is still shit and that's still going to be an L when you're done in minus 25 MMR. That doesn't change, right? And this is what happened, so I'm going to get a little bit theoretical for a second.

And I'm feeling like maybe this is enough emotional for one day. Sure. You know, we don't, we don't want to. There's a certain pacing to this stuff, and I think you've done awesome. You've done a lot of heavy lifting today. But I think it's kind of weird. So, you know, Freud said depression is when anger gets turned inwardly. And I know we haven't talked so much about.

depression, but I think that when we have this perfectionism and this kind of like, you're brutal with yourself. Like you hold yourself to a really, really high standard. And that adaptively is very good, right? Because even if you get nine out of ten, you're still beating yourself up, which means that the only way you will ever feel like relief. And it's not even peace. It's relief, right?

It's like an absence of pain is to get ten out of ten. And that serves you very well. It serves, I mean, that's why we do these things. So the things that we do to ourself in our head, sure, when we look at it from the top down, we're like, oh, I shouldn't do this and it doesn't help. But that's not true. One thing we have to understand about human biology and the human mind is that everything that we have, everything that we do serves a function. When you talk about perfection, this is not like a unique thing to you. This is something that tons of people struggle with, which means that it has an evolutionary like reason for it.

And as you also, you know, have realized it's not always helpful and it causes certain problems. But this self-blame that you have, this is where we get a bit academic. When we don't put blame where it belongs, it ends up with us. And I, you know, I know some of your relationship history and I think you know what that's like, right? when you don't blame the people who deserve the blame, when people don't take responsibility for their part, you end up carrying that negative weight. And if we look at the way that your dad left you,

and it's not just him and there's all kinds of other factors here, right? It's not like he fucked you up or anything like that. Like you have a lot to be proud of. You have a life that many people would envy, and I do get a lot of genuine gratitude from you about where you are. So your dad did a great job, and he kind of like missed the boat in one or two places.

And if you don't blame him, like I don't know if this kind of makes sense. Like if my mid feeds 0 and 6 and I blame myself for the loss, there is no amount of correction that I can do to compensate for that. Does that make sense? I mean, you've done coaching on pro teams

and stuff like that. And when we scapegoat someone who's not making mistakes, like the team is never going to improve. I've seen that too. Yeah. And the reason that I say, I think you should try is because I've just seen it too many times. This is more as a psychiatrist where, you know, when I have patients who have depression, one of the most important things that will consider doing is, you know, really blaming your parents. And that doesn't mean that, and here's the key thing, you can't forgive if you never blame. And so you, this,

just lingers. Like it just stays nebulous. Like if we never admit that there was a problem, then we can never forgive and move past it. It's like, does that kind of make sense? Like it's, that's, I get, so I get everything you're saying. Like, I've followed you so far. And the screaming question in my head, and this might be like the wrong question or whatever, but it's like, what does it even mean to blame him? Like, what does that look like? Like, what do I say to myself or what do I say out loud or like what is this in my head it maybe it's supposed to be obvious or something but I'm like I don't even know what I'm supposed to do with that like try blaming him you know no it's it's it's a great question and and let me ask you this Brian here's one of that

I think may be easier to answer why do you think that is so hard for you to even conceptualize I guess currently I've really embraced this idea that nothing is anyone's fault but it's more like I can just ask myself what part I played in this and sometimes it's nothing. Okay. Sometimes that part is nothing. All right. So, okay, you've adopted this idea that nothing is anyone's fault, right? Yeah.

Okay. Like, meaning like for me, it's more like fault implies like the connotation of fault is that it solely rests on this person. that this thing happened. When I, man, how do I actually say this? I guess what I'm trying to say is to me in my head, fault is kind of like a black and white thing. Like, it's like this person's fault. And I feel like a lot of people use that as a way to shed any responsibility. Also shed their own awareness of how they ended up in this situation in the first place.

Like, I think for me, by blaming others, I would shed the responsibility of like, or the questioning and the curiosity of like, why am I in this relationship, like, in the first place? Okay. So, hold, can I think for a second? Yeah. So my first thought that I have is, if this does see the light a day, I'm super curious what people would understand at this point. If they can see what I see, I don't know if it's obvious or not. So I don't know if this is like really hard to perceive or it's just really hard to perceive or it's just really hard. for you, it's really difficult for you to perceive or it's like clear as day. I'm so curious about that. But let's start with this. When your dad, when you, when you were the top scorer on the

team and you got eight out of ten free throws and your dad, the game ends, everyone's cheering, your dad comes up to you and he's like, bro, let's talk about the two that you missed. How did you feel and what did you do in your head in that moment? I know you can't, don't remember that particular instance. But do you have a sense of what you did? I think as a kid, I internalized it for the next game. Like, my head, like...

I mean, what I did in the exact moment, I mean, it didn't feel good. I could say that much. The long-term effect was me being afraid, like, messing up in the game meant that. Like, I would get that at the end of the game.

Like, I couldn't enjoy the game if... I messed up. Did you see what other dads did with other kids? Do you mind if I quickly tell a story? Sure. So I had a college track coach who was pretty similar to my dad. He was pretty brutal when it came to...

I remember... This is when I was like on the verge of depression. Like I was kind of on the down hill at this point. This is the immediate story that came in my head. Um... And there was a 4 by 400 meter race. The race I ran was 400 meter. And my best time I ever ran was in high school.

Like, I didn't quite match it when I was in college. And I was the final leg of the 4x4 in this meet. And I got the baton handed to me, and I was like 5 to 10 meters behind the person in front. And long story short, I slowly closed the gap. and I basically went neck and neck with them with like 50 meters to go. Like on the rounding corner, I like caught up to them and I was like neck and neck. And I lost by like a hundredth of a second. Like I started five to ten meters behind them and I lost by a hundredth of a second.

And my coach at the time said something along. It's like I don't remember exactly, but said something along the lines of, you did all that just to lose and I remember this random guy like that was one of like the officials at the event Kate like I never met him before

came up to me and said be proud of yourself son that was like one of the finest runs I've seen in a long time like that was awesome or something like that and I remember like crying I literally cried when

when that random ass fucking guy said that to me. So yeah, I mean, I guess when you ask what did other dads do, it's like, I don't have maybe I just shut it out eventually. Like, I don't know, like, I don't have any clear memories in my head of what other dads did, but I have an idea of what they did, you know,

some degree of what that random official guy did at the race. Something I've noticed in the last like six months is that I'm never ready for what I'm going to like tear up. Like, I don't expect it. I'm like, I'll just tell this story now. Yeah. And then, yeah, I mean, I hit, sorry.

No, no, when you shared that story, do you know what you're feeling right now? I mean, I feel a degree of relief having shared that story. I mean, I was feeling sadness and relief, I guess, were the two things, I would say. What are you sad about? I mean, I think it's the same as when you try seeing like a really sad movie. Like, I'm sad for the Brian that I'm talking about. Yeah.

Right. That's like quite tragic. Like, it's, it's one thing to be a grown man who's in a healthy relationship with a successful career. But it's another thing to be like a 20-year-old kid, a 10-year-old kid I mean, I asked you about what other dads did and this is where you went.

And this is why I was like, I'm wondering whether if anyone sees this is going to be clear, right? But that's the thing that your dad never did. And that's like the most basic thing that a dad is supposed to do. And like to be an eight-year-old kid and like not get that, right?

And I know you don't remember, but I imagine you felt angry. I imagine you felt like, why don't, you know, this kid is not even the top score and his dad is taking him out for ice cream. Like, why don't I get that? What do I have to do to get that from you? And so I think when blaming him, right, so I want you to think about your younger self. And if you as a grown man could go back and talk to your dad, right? So if you saw like eight-year-old you at the end of a basketball game and your dad comes up to you and says what he normally says, what would you do?

Put yourself in this random stranger's shoes, right? And I think that's why it's so powerful. What would you say to your dad? What would you say to your son when he's the top scorer and he scores eight out of ten free throws? I'd just say some version of I'm proud of you and well play like a, like a hard played game or something like that. And what would you say to your dad? If I was like a stranger standing up for a kid? Yeah. Yeah.

If you were you, if I transported you back in time and you were at this game, what would you say? I say something like, don't be so hard on them. Why not? What is it doing, Tim? It's tax season. And at Lifelock, we know you're tired of numbers. But here's a big one you need to hear. Billions. That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible.

identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com slash podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply. Taking the joy out of life. What else? Let's say making him anxious. what is he signing this child up for right when you're a failure i don't i'm not sure exactly where you're going yeah yeah i mean i and so this is maybe the limit right but i i'm sort of thinking what i what i see remember earlier when i said like you have to work to be proud

yeah you know you have to do a lot up here like that's what you're it's like a curse. And I know there's like black and whiteness and there's fault and we'll get to that in a second. But like let's just understand, right, what impact this has had. It's multifactorial. It's not just, you know, and your dad did the best that he knew how to do, which is okay. You know, but let's, let's not. So I think the reason it's hard for you to now tie a couple of things together. And I know we said we were done, but I think that needed to happen. So I think the reason it's hard for you to blame your dad is because you've worked really, really hard. You've programmed yourself not to like ever since you were a kid. You do these weird mental gymnastics of like placing the blame on

yourself. You do this really weird thing where you sort of think about responsibility is black and white and you always shift the blame to yourself. And that's why it's hard when you say, I don't even know how to do that. Right. So, and that's because you've programmed yourself to not do that. And you'll even come up with these super complicated highly intellectual structures about black and white and blame and fault and now I don't blame anyone. Like, I don't know if this makes sense. This is probably a stretch. And, you know, this is just because time and things like that. But like your inability to blame your dad has turned into some super complex structure about how you never hold anyone at fault.

Does that kind of make sense? like if we start with this really basic primitive lack of blame, and then we grow for years and years and years into a capable adult who's adaptive and resilient and cognitive reframing, you end up with this weird structure of like all or nothing blame, which makes no sense whatsoever, and also like this weird, like adaptive resilience, which is a really powerful story.

And I think it's really, I mean, it's not surprising to anyone who may watch this like why you went to that story, right? Even if you go back and watch this because that's what your dad didn't do. That was the one time in your life where you got what you were craving. And this stranger saw in you what your dad failed to see. And the goal here is not to demonize your dad. I don't blame your, like blame your dad in the sense that, yeah, he did the best that he could do. That doesn't prevent the damage that you're left with.

And this is where I think healing and forgiveness really come into play because unless you acknowledge that, unless you acknowledge the truth of the situation, there's no chance to heal. You know, and when your dad was like, hey, I want a relationship with my son, that you loved that, you craved that, and you hated it. You were angry at him. Yeah, that's true. Right? Because here he is telling you he wants a relationship. but the guy will not say he's proud of you. The guy doesn't understand.

What are you angry at him for? Because he doesn't understand what it was like. He's like, just come back, I'll make it okay. You're like, you don't understand. He also didn't understand what it was like when you got eight out of ten free throws with a top score. You wanted him to understand then, too, that you felt proud of yourself.

Not what you signed up for today. Yeah, I did not at all remotely imagine this conversation going to this direction. I mean, neither did I. But like I said, I think you're done with Puerrebro. I mean, sure, it'll linger. And it'll have some echoes and some neuronal programming is there. But you've really taken the plunge.

I mean, I don't think that's where you are now. Now we're at a different, we're at a deeper level of healing and other kinds of things. Like, this is where it's like the deep work, man. And like, like, once you do this work and you're already doing it, it's started. There's no, you don't have to do anything. If you want concrete stuff, I think having a conversation with your dad one day is like a really important possibility. I'm not saying you need to. It sounds like he's not really, has difficulty handling it.

It can be something as, has your dad ever said he's proud of you? Not that I recall. Like that's kind of fucked, right? Yeah, it's funny. No, it's not funny, but my, I don't even remember what the context was, But sometime recently, I think it was when she was here. My mom told me, or no, it was on the phone. It was on the phone.

It was like three weeks before my mom visited. So it was like a month and a half ago. That kind of out of the blue, she just said how proud she was of me. And I just started sobbing, like almost out of the blue. And I guess I didn't really look inward to know why that I started crying so much. And I guess I have a better idea. of what exactly was happening there. And I,

my mom was very supportive. Like, I can say with 100% certainty, my mom said she was proud of me many times. Yeah. So it's interesting to me that, I know she's said that before, but yet this time around,

it was like, you know, water works the second that she said it to me on the phone. Does that imply that, like, that I'm starving for, being proud of myself? Like, is that what that means? I mean, I mean, in a sense, yes. Like, that's the basic issue here, right?

So, like, this perfectionism and the brutality with which you, and these are your words, okay? You know, when I asked one thing and then you said, well, it's because I had to be perfect to get my dad to love me or something like that. Yeah, yeah. So here's how I understand it. So, like, you know, when I said, you're done with Poirre, here's how I understand it. So I think you really have grown. Like you've like seriously leveled up.

Like you ranked up, you're like divine. Like you con- I mean, not conquered, but you know. And so what's happening is as you like fix problems, like you go like deeper into the core. And so like like the stuff that came up today, I mean, that's not, I didn't want to go there. Right. That's where you are. like this is where you are now, which is why I think it makes, I mean, that's the hypothesis. That's how this stuff works.

But another supporting point for that hypothesis is that your mom is told you she's proud of you a million times. I thought it was really interesting that when you talked about Disneyland, by the way, flagged it. You know, you said I have good memories with my mom and I went with my mom and my question was like, where was that? You know, so that's a conversation for a different day. But it's just interesting that when you talk about, when you spontaneously talk about the positive memories that you want to try to recreate, it's like a memory about mom.

So right there, I know she's told you that she's proud of you. Like, that's, you know, this is not mom. But now that you're going deeper into the core to these, as you like solve these problems like Puera and stuff like that, I'm not saying it's 100% solved, but, you know, you've taken the plunge in a lot of ways that were hard for you. Like maybe five years ago, you were doing five different things and now you're doing like two things and, you know, like you've got your first hundred people and it's work that you find. Like, you're kind of, you've improved past that. So now we get to the deeper stuff. And so since

that's kind of where you were, now that that stuff is opening up, like those words will impact you in a different kind of way, right? And that's what you're bringing to this conversation that I'm kind of picking up and following. So I think that's just kind of where you are now. And this is the kind of healing that you need to do. And this is how it's super cool. Like the body and the mind know what needs to be healed. It's super cool. And there's like some of this other stuff about like loneliness and things like that. I think it's that that's because you are changing, Brian. You're leveling up. And I think the kinds of problems that you're grappling with are different. And so that loneliness is, is something that I understand very well.

And there are a couple of different avenues there. But I don't think it's, I think there are parts of you that until those get seen or healed, that loneliness will be there. Thanks for joining us today. We're here to help you understand your mind and live a better life. If you enjoy the conversation, be sure to subscribe. Until next time, take care of your soul. and each other.

This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car shouldn't feel like a second job. It should feel easy. With Carvana, it is. Just visit Carvana.com and to your license plate or Vin. Answer a few quick questions and get an offer in minutes. Like what you see? We'll pick it up right from your door and hand you your check.

No haggling, no hassle, no problem. Car selling made easy. On. Carvana. Pick up for you. may apply.