HealthyGamerGG - The Stress Never Goes Down | Talking ADHD with Justaminx!

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Today Dr. K and Justaminx talk about everything from ADHD, to medication, to personality disorders, and more! Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So when you're a kid with ADHD at the age of seven, and everyone's in recess is standing in line to get on the slide. And when you have ADHD and you can't stand in a line, so you wander away and then you come back and you cut, right? Because you were in line. You were ahead of this kid. And then you wandered away for a minute. And now that kid is like second from the front. And you step back in front of him and you're like, this is my place in line. And then you cause conflict.

So you can sort of like look at someone who's like bipolar has major depressive disorder. And you can see like, okay, this is not. how the brain is supposed to be working. Whereas the interesting thing about a personality disorder is that even though it causes them problems, it's the way that their brain grew up learning how to survive. But it's kind of this idea that like, I don't know how else to say it, it's just replacing in your mind. So when your mind reacts to something, it's never and, it's always but.

Yes. Right? It's either or I can be mad at you and still love you. But someone with BPD can't hold. hold both of those thoughts. That's why it's so terrifying. I am self-aware when it's happening and I'm trying to tell myself, stop thinking this. Calm down. So I can't.

Let me ask you a question, Minks. Do you think that personalities can change over the course of someone's life? Welcome. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Oh, thanks. Thank you very much for coming on. I know sometimes it makes people kind of like nervous, anxious to be on and we really appreciate you.

Yeah. No, I'm excited. I'm excited. And can you tell me first, what do you go by or what would you like to be called today? Minks works. Okay. And is there something in particular that you wanted to talk about or anything that we could potentially help you with? Well, no, there's so much things I need help with where there's not specific. Sure. I'm kind of nervous. I don't even know what I should say first. Maybe, maybe. Yeah, maybe even if you're just. chat, you push me, how to start? I'm like, this is kind of new for me. Yeah, absolutely. So let's, we don't ever want to push you, right? Okay. So, but we can absolutely get started. And maybe what I can do is sort of like take the lead if that makes you a little bit more comfortable.

So the first thing that I want to point out is that a lot of times, if we're thinking about what we want to work on, there are like so many different things and they're all like tangled together. and so it can feel like we don't even know where to start. Is that kind of what you're feeling? Yeah, pretty much. Every single day of my life. Every single day. Wow, that sounds...

How do you deal with that? Not when I... Well, when I take my Adderall is what I do. And then I'm straight ahead, focus on why I need to do. Wow. So it sounds like Adderall really helps you? I also think that it doesn't help me as much. much as I think it does. I think every time it's like a mental thing similar to in the past when I

used alcohol as a like, because I was shy or anxious where I could have one shot and then I'd be like social for the night when realistically it's just a brain thing. Yeah. So I'm almost hearing that the Adderall changes your sense of confidence more than it actually changes your brain. And you're like, now that I've taken out of all, I can work. Yeah. I feel like if I take it, I'm like, I know I have to work because I'm like, you know, it's prescription, it's prescribed. So I'm like, once it's there, it's like, well, now I have to work. I can't just doth around and do nothing. Yeah, absolutely. Can I share with you kind of an interesting study I read recently about medication for ADHD? Yes. So they did an interesting study on kids with ADHD and parenting styles of kids with ADHD.

So what they found is that when a kid has ADHD, it's very, very frustrating for the parent. And the parent actually will like yell a lot more when their child has ADHD. So kids with ADHD have this thing called passive noncompliance where their focus is like so big on a particular thing that the parent is kind of like talking to them and saying, hey, it's time to go to school. It's time to go to school. It's time to go to school. And the kid just isn't paying attention. Like that's that's what ADHD is, right? It's a problem with attention.

And then eventually what happens is the parent yells at the kid. And then the kid gets yelled at. They get kind of snapped out of like what they were doing. The parent is kind of frustrated and angry. And then the kid listens. And then over time, the parent actually learns to like yell more often because that's what it takes to get a kid to listen. With me so far? Yeah.

So the weird thing is that when you give the kid the medication and you, actually test in a laboratory their ability to focus, it does not change at all. But what changes is the parent's behavior once a child is medicated. And we're not quite sure how that works. But something about the medication allows kids to listen to their parents better, even though their inattention score does not change. So their ability to focus doesn't change, but it's weird. So it definitely does change something.

It improves their symptoms. So if you look at them getting in trouble at school, them doing their homework, them being late to school, it improves all of the outcomes that ADHD sort of causes. Like it causes people to be spacey, causes them to be late, causes them to be disorganized. So it fixes all those things. But it doesn't actually change their mind's ability to like focus. And we don't quite know why that is. But it's really interesting. What the hell?

No, that makes sense. because I was like, so ADHD medication in Ireland, like in Ireland when I was being diagnosed, like it took me months to get diagnosed with BPD and I was like in the process of being diagnosed with ADHD for months. And then I came to America and I was like, oh, I'll continue with by I had to restart and I was diagnosed within two weeks, which is insane to me how quick it is over here. And then we don't even have Adderall in Ireland. We, we, I think it's, I don't even know what we have because I was never on the medication. But like they just true Adderall at me immediately and I thought that fixed everything but exactly what you said

there where I like I did a test with it where I was like I'm doing nothing today and I had it and I think it was more a mental thing where I was like I should work because I've had it but realistically I was able to lie it's weird yeah tell me more about that that sounds so I'd love to hear kind of your experience of that if you feel comfortable sharing it's just I think I've always like I'm I kind of have a fear of Adderall if that makes sense because it's it's not necessarily banned in Ireland. We just don't have it. And like it's just talked about a lot where it like makes you almost like

you're just, ooh, you know, energy, energy, energy. So I was always scared of it where the, I actually, I'm on 15 MG twice a day, but I don't take that. I like break it in half and do 7.5 and then if I need more of it but then like if I take one whole pill, even though it doesn't make a big difference

in my head, I'm like, whoa, bro, I'm so focused right now. But it does feel like a lot of the time, it's more me telling myself I'm focused than actually feeling focused. But now I feel like reliant on it when I need to do work. Like if I need to sit and do meetings and stuff, I like have to, you know, take an Adderall, which is kind of annoying because I've had ADHD my whole life and I was able to, you know, survive without it until I came to America. But now I feel like I couldn't survive without it. You can't survive without. Not survive, but like do my work with it.

Like I couldn't like, I feel like now I can't like go through emails for three hours or like do all that. Well, without it. Yeah. I mean, I think going through emails for three hours without it sounds terrible for anyone, let alone. Drew, you got me there. You know, because I'm wondering then if it's if it's just that it's not that how can I say this? I know it's kind of weird because that's your experience and I don't want to disagree with it. But what I'm wondering is whether you're just like doing more now, like whether your plate is,

just stacked higher with like stuff to do. That actually could be it too. Because to be fair, when I was in Ireland, it was just me, myself and I had a little renovated morgue. And here I'm like living with roommates and going out consistently because L.A. Yeah. That might be it too. Yeah.

So how are you feeling now, by the way? Are you okay talking about this? You feeling like nervous or is this feel okay? No, I actually feel fine talking about it because I usually don't get to talk about like this stuff on my stream at all. Yeah. Can I, I'm just so curious. I'd love to learn more about your experience because you mentioned in Ireland it took like you were getting diagnosed for months.

Yeah. And can you tell me a little bit about what that was like? Yeah. So I never actually got diagnosed in Ireland with ADHD. I was like going through a bunch of tests. And it was similar where to be fair, a lot of the time I wasn't making myself to go to the appointments like every two weeks or week because I'm like, you know, it's taking. in forever. Like with my BPD, it took like, I think, nine months to get properly diagnosed because they didn't want to mess up the diagnosis and stuff. And can you help us understand what BPD is? It's like orderline personality disorder. It's honestly hard to explain. It really has a bad rep.

But I personally, like, think it helps me with my content because if I'm like having a really bad mood swing that I can't control, I think. throw it into like, you know, acting where it's like a lot of my crazy bits come from that. But it's, it, it took months where it felt like a, it felt treacherous. And honestly, that's my question. I'm like, America's so quick with diagnosis where I'm like, are they misdiagnosis or is Ireland just so slow that it took months to diagnose? What do you think? You've been evaluated in both places.

Who do you think is doing better? Uh, so honestly, I, I like, I like. how America was so quick because I feel like I've always known I've had ADHD and it was taking months like I've always being aware of that but I've never like had the proper diagnosis except for when I was 16 but like they threw that out the window

because Temple Street is weird it's a weird Dublin hospital but at the same time I also worry about how quick they diagnose you with it like my ADHD was like three phone calls not even meeting me in person or like

like three phone calls on a questionnaire while in Ireland it was like I had to meet Amy in person every week and do different like tests and stuff and like before I got like diagnosed with anything. Yeah. So I'm I'm happy to share some thoughts on that, but I just want to make sure we're kind of like okay with talking about this. So I'm going to ask you one or two questions that are like, because you're sharing your experience of diagnosis. And I may be able to shed some light on that, but I want to ask you one or two questions that are like a little bit more medical. Is that okay?

Like you recognize we're on the internet and stuff like that, right? Yeah. So when you were in Ireland, were you being evaluated for BPD or evaluated for ADHD? So I was diagnosed with BPD two years ago, but it took months. But when I was in Ireland before I came to America, I was in the middle of an evaluation for ADHD. That was ongoing for about, it was somewhere between four to six months.

So did they get sidetracked from the ADHD and went into the BPD? No. So I was diagnosed with BPD first before anything. And then I like brought up, Amy was just asking. She was like, you know, have you ever looked into ADHD? And I explained how like at 16, I was like being evaluated for it. But with my epilepsy for some reason, they just kind of threw that to the side. So then she started the diagnosis for my ADHD.

but it was like four months of like different kind of tests and stuff. But to be fair, this was also like free healthcare. Like, what I've noticed is like, yeah, you pay for a lot in America, but like they're quicker with what they do half the time. So yeah, so here's what I'd share. So I think a lot of times the amount of time it takes to diagnose different psychiatric things is different. Yeah. So BPD is borderline personality disorder, which sounds.

like devastating. Like if you're just you have a disorder and your personality, you're screwed for life. And by the way, um, your experience is not uncommon. So I do think a couple things. I feel like we got to talk about BPD for a second. So the first is that I think BPD gets a very, very bad rap. Um, I think the second thing is that a lot of very, very high functioning and successful women have BPD. Um, it's, thank you. It's just, it's just facts. So a lot of the women that I've worked with who have BPD are also very, very successful and very high functioning. And something about it, I think, is similar to what you're saying where there, like something about it like makes them, and we could theorize more.

I could share what my thoughts are on that if you're curious about that. But make something about how sensitive they are to criticism and how careful they are about like it's so damn important to do a good job. if you've got BPD. That's been my experience of sitting with people who have it. I'm like honestly definitely interested in hearing more about BPD for me because in Ireland, like it was very, very like it's, I feel like it's not as not common, but like they, my first therapist, like she almost misdiagnosed me with, um, uh, minor sociopathic tendencies, which when I went to Amy, my new one, she was like, that is not like, like,

nowhere near you. Why would she say that? Because like BPD is so like, I guess not, it's not uncommon. It's just, I feel like not really spoken about a lot. And then like they, they just put me on the same like Lomictal mood disorder pills for it. But here in America, they won't give me my damn prescription. Are you joking about being frustrated about that? Or you actually frustrated? I can't tell. It's just kind of annoying because they won't give me it. They're like, no, this is an Irish prescription. And I'm like, mate, you gave me Adderall within two weeks. And you can't see my name is on these papers?

And they don't want to prescribe it? No, they don't. Do they think you, do you mind if I ask some questions? Like, not so much about your diagnosis and stuff, but what's that like in terms of like, what have you explained to them? What do they understand? Do they not think that you need it? Do they disagree?

They want me to go through another, like, Like, they want me to re-like, they want to re-diagnose me because they said, like, lemitil is one of the minor ones. They think I should be on, like, I don't know what the pill is called. It's like a mix between depressive and mood disorder one. So they want to kind of completely restart from the beginning, do a fresh diagnosis that isn't from, you know, Ireland and then give me something. But I don't want to go through that.

I just want my goddamn limicto. And so it sounds like lemictal helps you? it's once again the kind of thing where it might maybe I overthink that it helps me and it doesn't help me because that's what my mom every time I call her having a little breakdown she's like get back on your limictal

and I'm like mother I cannot America is keeping it away from me that's so weird so they're they're really quick to diagnose ADHD and not so quick to die that's that's strange right because atarol is a controlled substance. It's a stimulant.

Back when I was in residency, one month supply of adorol, you could sell for $1,000 in Boston. That was the street value. Hey, you know I'm going to be keeping that. I don't know. I don't know if it's still the case, but that's what, you know.

And I'm going to be rich. That's just what I heard from, you know, my patients who were testing positive. Like I'd be working in the emergency room when someone comes in, they test positive for Adderall, they don't have a prescription. I'm like, you haired that, huh? Huh?

You haired that. He learned on the street. It goes for one K of pop. I see you. Yeah. Don't worry. Mix, you are awesome to talk to. Oh, thank you.

I needed that. I needed that. No, seriously. It's, it's been a long time since someone implied that I was, selling drugs on the street. It's been many, many years. Now, I didn't imply it. You see the wink? No, no, I know, I know. That's me, that's me projecting, right? I'm reading into it. It's actually completely neutral. Now, you admit to your own false. I can't help you here. Well done. Well done. I've been, I've been checkmated.

Actual self-snitcher. Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh, yeah. So, so, yeah, I think, so let's just talk about the diagnosis of BPD for a second. And, you know, I can pull out the iPad and draw if that helps at some point, okay? If I'm saying things that are like hard to follow without visuals, because I know also sometimes people with ADHD really, really benefit as being visual learners. So if that would help, just let me know, okay? See, I'll be real with you. It would help, but me admitting a drawing would help as a 25-year-old girl woman on the internet.

It's kind of embarrassing. But, yeah, pictures actually do help me pay more attention. Oh, yeah, so let's do it then. Because, I mean, that has nothing to do with you being 25 years old. Like, you know, drawings help all humans. And especially when it's like weird, confusing stuff. Okay, hold on a second. So this is going to turn into a lecture.

Are you okay with that? Like a little one. And then please ask questions. Okay, so, Minks, I'm going to need your help. All right? Yes. So here's what I need you to do. So I'm going to give a lecture.

but my class size is going to be hold on is going to be like kind of like one because you're the only person I can talk to you right now okay so what that means is that if I say something that doesn't make sense you're the only person who can let me know okay so what I'm going to need you to do is like pretend like you are you I need the activity from you that I would get from 30 students sitting in a classroom can you see this by the way it's just going to be a black screen I can see it. Okay, then we're going to do this. All right. So let's start. So you can see this, right? Yeah. Okay, so let's run through a couple of different things about your experience.

The first is that, so there's BPD, there's ADHD. And a couple of other things that we noticed is that it took you six months to get diagnosed in Ireland, two weeks in the U.S. U.S. Okay? So like what's going on here? How do we make psychiatric diagnoses? So for BPD, it was nine months, but I was in the middle of four, six months for the ADHD, but never got fully diagnosed with it. And then I came to America and went to continue. And then it was just two weeks off the bat. Beautiful. Beautiful in the sense. I love that level of participation. Okay. Oh, sorry, you said two weeks, right? Is how long it took you in the U.S.? Yeah.

So let's first talk about how these diagnoses are different. So has anyone explained to you or do you understand what the difference between a personality disorder and a non-personality disorder are? Personality disorders in your brain and cannot be fixed with meds. Very, very good answer. Yeah. So we have this thing called a personality, right? And our personality is sort of like the way that we perceive the world. and also the way that we react to it.

So it's like, you know, if you think about what's the difference between two people's personality, it's like, you know, if both of us show up to a party, the situation is exactly the same. But the way that will perceive the situation, oh, is everyone like looking at me and making fun of what I'm wearing? Or, oh, yeah, this is awesome. Like everyone's so excited to see me. Like, even though everyone's sort of acting the same way, two different people could perceive it. differently. And then the way that we respond to that situation also changes. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. So personality disorders also tend to be like developed early on. So our brain like develops like a way of interacting with the world. And then that pattern of like how we perceive and how we behave is sort of who we are. And then if that if that gets laid down, in a particular way that causes us suffering or some kind of impairment and function,

if it causes problems, we call it a personality disorder. Does that make sense? Yes, you do be causing problems. Yep. And we'll talk a little bit about benefits of personality issues in a second. But so the key thing about the personality disorder is that if you look at a human being, a human being, let's say like this is your stress level. So your stress level like goes...

Do you make that a tiny bit bigger? Sure. We're talking about my stress levels, like huge. Oh, moon and back, yep. Okay. We'll do that. Stress levels when I get that peak going. Okay.

They know the line never goes down. Oh, we'll talk about that. We'll talk about how the line never goes down. There we go. Ooh, this is going to be good. Okay. Don't let me forget about that, okay? Thanks.

Okay. So the key thing about the reason, So personality disorders, generally speaking, are supposed to take a long time to diagnose. And the reason for that is that if I'm stressed out, I'm going to be behaving in like a more impaired way, right? If I'm going through a temporary period of stress, I'll be lashing out at people, my mood will be more irritable, I'll have difficulty sleeping, I'll feel bad about myself. Does that make sense? But it's just like, it's like stress. Let's say like finals time, for example, or if someone, you know, loses their.

job or if there's a death in the family or you have a breakup or something like that. There are all kinds of temporary things that will make you feel worse, cause problems and impair function. With me? So the reason that we need time to diagnose a personality disorder is if we look at like, let's say, someone without a personality disorder, dude, Minks, you're so good at this. Because this is what someone with a non-personality disorder may look like. Oh, those lucky men.

Yeah, they certainly are. Actually, that's probably a better thing. So they may have, so if you look at just one point in time, if we look at like this one month period for someone with a personality disorder and without a personality disorder, it actually looks the same. That's why we need a lot of time, because is this your base, like, is this just who, like, is it part of your personality or is it a temporary effect due to stress? Does that make sense?

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Okay. So this is why, generally speaking, it takes months. It's supposed to take about six months. Okay. Right. To diagnose a personality disorder because you need to see people through the ups and downs. You need ups and you see you need downs. And when you kind of like remove the ups and downs of temporary stress from the equation, what you're left with is like their general way of functioning. Their default way of perceiving and behaving. Does that make sense? That actually makes so much sense Because I was so confused Why it was taking so long Nine months for something that You know isn't even fully medicated

I thought they were just dossing around But that actually makes so much sense Because everyone has stress Everyone has different levels That oh my God Yeah so let's I don't know about that I think you're helping me a lot here

This was this is all you Minks This is all you So we're gonna do it together okay Yes Okay So now let's talk about medication So I know

sounds kind of weird. Okay, I'm going to ask you questions, minks, but I think you're going to, don't worry about give me the right answer. I just need someone to interact with, and you unfortunately are the person on stream. So what does medication do? What do you think it does? I know, that's kind of weird. Supposed to help.

Yeah, and how do you think it helps? By calming my mind when I'm about to blow up from something so small that it doesn't matter. Yep. Very good. Okay. So, and so like, if we think about a medication, like, when you take Adderall, like, that's a physical pill, right? How do you think, and our mind is not physical, right? So how do you think, what does the Adderall do? Where does it go in your body and what does it act on? My God, my stomach. Okay. Wait, what the hell? No, now I'm getting freaked out. Okay. No. What does Adderall do? How does it affect me? You're good, good? Where does it go after the stomach? Out my asshole.

If it just... Okay, so it gets absorbed to the bloodstream. Okay. Right? It gets digested. Yes. And then it goes to your brain. Okay.

Okay. Two different answers there, but I was pretty close. This is great. Oh, my God. This is so much better than teaching at Harvard Medical School. Let me tell you what. Oh, my God. I would still be there if I had students like you.

Okay. And, and then it, like, it does stuff to your neurotransmitters, right? This is... Am I what? Your neurotransmitters. Have you heard of these? Yeah. Have you heard of like serotonin and like dopamine and all this crap? Like we have... Wait, okay, so what's the difference between serotonin and dopamine?

Great question. I thought serotonin was like happiness, but I think I was wrong with that. Yeah, so this is where... So here's the thing to understand about neurotransmitters. So we have things like dopamine. mean. We have things like serotonin. We also have, you know, noradrenaline, let's say. So the thing to understand is that neurotransmitters are like letters of the alphabet. So like if I have A, C, and T, I can put these together to form cat or tack or whatever.

They're just signals. And so what they do depends on like how you arrange them and what part of the brain they're in. So people think that dopamine is, for example, like the happiness neurotransmitter or serotonin is the happiness neurotransmitter. But dopamine, for example, governs reward. So when you do something that's fun and your brain is like, ooh, I want more of that. That's governed by dopamine. But dopamine also does things like smooth movement. So for example, like if I wave my hand up and down, my ability to control that is actually

due to dopamine. So they do, yeah, it's kind of all kinds of weird things. So serotonin also governs, like, whether you have diarrhea or not in the GI system. So well said, so you were right about it goes out the asshole. That's all, Adderall will stimulate that too. It'll affect, Adderall will actually affect your appetite, right? So I don't know if you have experienced that. Yes.

So, so, you know, we got to be, we got to be clear. That's why I like about Adderall. Lost to me a nice little 15 pounds on that pill. Yeah, right. So it actually does all kinds of stuff. So neurotransmitters do all sorts of things. and generally speaking, people have a simplistic view of them. So this involves GI health in your GI tract.

This also includes motor stuff. So there are all kinds of different neurotransmitters do all sorts of different stuff. It just depends on where it is. So it's kind of like a building block. It's just a chemical signal in the brain. But like, you know, where that signal is and what's receiving it will determine what it does. right so like let me just i'm trying to think it is going to be a terrible analogy okay so if someone let's say i'm lying in bed at night and someone puts their arm around me and says i love you

that signal means very different things whether i'm at home and in bed with my wife versus i'm sleeping in a hotel room on my own right if you're on your own that's a ghost mate yeah that's what i'm saying exactly right so even though the stimulus is exactly the same, the meaning of it and the effect of it is completely different. Because one is comforting and one is terrifying, even though technically the words are the same, the feeling is the same. You with me? Yeah. Ew.

Right. It's terrible analogy. But, okay. So that's where these neurotransmitters are just different chemical signals in the brain and what they govern. So serotonin, like people think about serotonin as happiness because when someone has something like major. depressive disorder or MDD, and we give them a serotonin boosting agent, what we find is that their depression gets worse, gets better. So their depression goes down and they feel better. So what we sort of do is we assume that a serotonin deficiency is causing depression. Does that make sense? Yes. But it's not,

I mean, serotonin does a lot more than that. Okay. And it's dopamine, dopamine, the adorone. helps. Oh, yeah. So, so don't, damn it, they're so confusing. They're all like the same thing, but different. Oh, yeah. No, it's, it gets even more confusing. Like, so here's the way that, let me just think about whether I want to go into this. So a couple of things. Wait, is that way MDMA is called, because MDD, MDMA. Isn't MDMA like happiness? Uh, no. I don't think those are related. Okay. Um, so MDMA. MDMA. MDMA gives people a sense of connection? So it does help with potentially MDD, but you're right, but for the wrong reasons. Are those, are those like drugs that, like, they boost your dopamine?

Nope. So let's talk about MDD. So this is depression and MDMA. Okay. Let's talk about how this works. So MDMA, which I do not recommend people use, is also called ecstasy, right? Yeah. And generally speaking, makes people feel very connected to each other. Right? What's the hell? I don't know. I've never tried it, but that's what I hear.

So let's talk a little bit about... Sure, Doc. Well, that's that, thanks. Okay. So let's talk about depression. So in depression, what people get stuck on is thinking about themselves in a negative way. So when I'm depressed, I'm just thinking, oh my God, like, I'm such a terrible person. Everyone else would be so much better without me.

You know, like my family would be happier if I wasn't around. They think all these weird, bizarre thoughts. I don't know if you've experienced that or if you have friends like, are you kind of, you know, people feel that way in depression? They always like think bad about themselves. Yeah, consistently. So what happens here is we have this part of the brain called the default mode network. and I know the acronyms are getting crazy here, but the default mode network is the part of our brain that thinks about us.

So this is what separates humans from animals, right? So animals don't think about themselves. We think about ourselves. And when everything in our life becomes all about me, me, me, me, me, but in a bad way, we get stuck thinking about ourselves. I can't think about something else. I can't just sit outside and enjoy the sun because all I'm thinking about, my mind is like, it's stuck.

on this thought that I'm a worthless person. Do monkey, DMIU? Huh? Do monkeys have it? Our monkeys are the closest to humans? So they may have a very primitive default mode network, but I don't think it's nearly as developed as ours.

Really? So we're basically stuck thinking about ourselves. And so if I had to hypothesize how MDMA can help, is that remember, MDMA creates a sense of connectedness. So I think it kind of stops. this action of the default mode network. All we're thinking about is ourselves. We're able to start thinking about other people and like connecting with other people.

And there are even studies that show that some of these drugs, which are now being used as treatments for depression, like ketamine, work. Oh, I've heard about the ketamine treatment. The ketamine actually shuts off the default mode network. So we've figured out how ketamine helps people with depression. And the really interesting thing is that ketamine is the fastest acting treatment. for depression that we've ever discovered. Okay, so I heard about it. My friend, she was telling me that she might be going for it.

But in Ireland, ketamine is known as horse tranquilizer. Sure. So, ketamine is also used in anesthesia. What the frick? Yeah. So, because what ketamine does is it kind of like it's a dissociative agent. So we'll use it in anesthesia to like, if we're doing surgery on someone, because they kind of get, like, disconnected from themselves. What the hell? Why is everything the same? It all loops back in together. Can I mean is in anesthesia?

Yeah. Damn. I love that. That, well, yeah, I mean, you're not the only one, right? So if we look at other drugs for anesthesia, like nitrous oxide, people love that stuff too. I don't know what that is. That's like laughing gas. Okay. I thought that was anesthesia. Yeah, it is, it is anesthesia.

Okay. Right? So a lot of the anesthetic agents can be drugs of abuse. And, and so you're right. It all like, yeah. I mean, it all, yeah, minks, you're right. It all connects. Okay.

And what about oxy? Okay. Oxy is an opiate. Okay. Okay. Do you know I had a run in. what oxy. So in Ireland oxy's like banned

completely banned. Here I had like surgery last year at the end of last year and they gave me oxy and I didn't even know anything about who didn't know what it was but I would like go live and I'd be like yeah I'm feeling good I'm feeling loopy and then my

mother who was a nurse and a special leads assistant once she found out I was on it she was like please get off that please for me get off that it's addicting and then And I did get off it, like I threw it away and stuff. Well, I didn't realize like it's a huge thing here in America. Yeah.

So a couple years ago, I'll tell you a story. So a couple years ago, I was talking with some people who are in the leadership of the American Psychiatric Association. And I was telling them, hey, I think technology addiction is a huge problem. I think that people are starting to get addicted to technology. I think it's causing a lot more problems than we realize. I think we need to take this a little bit more seriously. They were very, very nice and very supportive, but their response was,

right now this country is dying of opiates. Oxis are like killing people at an alarming rate, and we have to fix that problem first. And so it's really challenging, but what happened to you is very common, where people, like, because people who aren't that familiar with addiction are usually the ones prescribing oxy. Right? You'll get like surgery or you'll go to the emergency room with like a sprain or something like that.

And a surgeon will just prescribe oxy because that's, you know, it works really well. And oftentimes like if you really think about it, you know, surgeons don't really sit down with you and ask you about like, you know, do you use drugs? Or they'll maybe we'll ask you, do you use drugs? Then you say no. And they're like, all right, here's a prescription. I feel like a warning should be like in place though. Because I had no idea. I was just like, okay, this is going to make me feel better after surgery.

And like if my mom had not told me, because I was, I was, I was, I was really, I was enjoying those pills. They were putting, like, make my pain go away. But I was also feeling, like, giddy. And I'm just, I'm a mama's girl. And I trust her where, the moment she asked me to stop, I stopped it. And I went on, I think it was like Tylenol, which did not. It barely helped.

Well, it's weird. It's weird. Why do they give it out so easily? Especially, like, I feel like, you know, I'm Irish. I have an Irish passport. not even a state, like they gave it so easily to me. Yeah, so that's a complicated. That answer is complicated, but the short answer that I'd give you is that many, many years ago,

when Oxy came out, the drug companies that made Oxy really, really pushed it and were probably not entirely honest about how addictive it was. But they probably knew that it was very addictive and knew that it was very effective. And so what they ended up doing is like sending a bunch of like pharmaceutical reps. And then it essentially like became the standard of practice in medicine very quickly. And so people just started like prescribing oxy before they realized how bad it was. And now the problem is that it's so all over the place. Like you can think about it like almost like a smartphone where like now like everyone has internet on their phone.

And it's it's permeated the American medical system. heavily that it's really hard to like go back and like change things now. So it, because a bunch of doctors just got trained in using it. Right. It's so weird. Yeah, it's bad, man. And then like now we have like fentanyl. And then like people are, okay, I've heard of fentanyl.

Actually, do you mind if I run to toilet, sorry? No, go for it. Thank you. All right. Okay. I guess this is a, Dr. Kay talks about. different drugs stream. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know that we started off with the diagnosis of BPD. I didn't forget. But it's good. I mean, we can... It's important.

So, you know, she's saying that, like, I didn't know that Oxy was a problem. And like that, why do you all think we're talking about this now? Right? Because there's a very good chance that there are people out there right now that you're going to get dental surgery done.

You're going to get like a tooth taken out. And your dentist will prescribe an opiate pain medication. And you may be one of the, unlucky people that has a genetic predisposition to opiate addiction. And then it will transform your life. Like, it'll be so amazing. It's going to help with the pain so much, right? And so you all need to know these things, because I don't know, you know, how many hours of education dentists get about, like, how to deal with addictions, how to screen for addictions. I'm sure they get trained.

I mean, they obviously, they know and must know that opiates can be addictive. There's no question about that. But it's just in terms of like, there's a difference between telling a dental student, opiates are addictive and like really equipping them with the clinical skills to evaluate whether a particular patient is vulnerable to addiction. So for example, I've been to the dentist a ton of times. No dentist has ever asked me, do I have a history of opiate addiction in my family? Which is probably a question they should all ask before they prescribe it to you. Right? Like, but it's just not a big part of their training. That's so crazy. Like, America's so... No offense, man. America's so insane.

Yeah. Like, I feel like Ireland's on the other end of the Schickfield, where they refuse to, like, give out. Like, my older sister just got diagnosed with ADHD recently, and they refused to give her any meds, which I don't think meds are... Okay, need it. No.

That's controversial. opinion. Tell me. I just, I'm like, you know, I feel like maybe it's just different for me, like, since I've started taking Adderall, it makes me way more work focus, but

I also feel like, not meaner, but I want to get work done because like I said, I've taken it, and it feels like, even though it doesn't drain my loudness, character, I feel more serious when I have it. And I'm just like,

I don't know, man. I'm like, let nature take its course. So I'm confused by that. Are you saying that? So I'm hearing that it helps you. Yeah, but where I am right now, if I was to go back to Ireland, I won't have Adderall.

And right now I rely on Adderall a lot. And maybe that's my own mental issue with it. But like, that's why I split it in half because I'm like, don't want to run out of it, don't want to do that. Well, if I'm splitting it in half and not even taking my right dosage. Yeah.

So that I would not recommend, but it's something that I've dealt with. Are we done with the lecture? You want to talk about this for a second or you want me to keep drawing? Oh, yeah. We can talk about that. Okay. Give me just one second. Okay.

Let me just stop sharing this. Move you back over here. Let's talk about this. This is very important to talk about. So, okay. So can I share with you what my experiences of patients who, take half the medication that are supposed to? Yeah. So generally speaking, I don't think it's a good idea. And here's why. So I've had lots of patients who, like you, have ADHD and are terrified

of becoming dependent on ADHD medication. Also terrified of doing things like running out, because if I run out, then I'll be non-functional. So it's almost like you're saving for a rainy day or like preparing for winter, right? Where we got to make sure. we have lots of potatoes in the basement in case we run out of potatoes. Is that an attack on the famine, Doc? Just because I'm Irish? You could have said Brussels sprouts, but you chose potatoes. Well, I don't think Brussels spouts can be stored for a long time, right?

It's got me there. You got me there. So carrots, potatoes, root vegetables, turnips. I could have said turnips and been more culturally sensitive. Yeah. But maybe I did think potatoes. I don't know. Maybe it's just because I grow potatoes.

So I was thinking about building a root cellar. You grow potato? Oh, yeah. They're very easy to grow. Wait, really? Is it like just potatoes or you have like a little vegetable garden? Well, the only things that are left now are potatoes. But I used to have okra, peas.

I tried growing melons. They didn't really grow very well. Is that like a comfort thing or you just wanted your garden to look nice? Or it was like therapeutic? Because I've heard plants are therapeutic. So there's all kinds of reasons, but the short answer is I like gardening and I wanted to eat some of the food. So peas is a good example of it's very hard to get fresh peas. And I've grown tomatoes and stuff and lettuce.

And so like lettuce and stuff is fantastic because the thing about lettuce is like you buy some lettuce, right? But then first of all, it's getting really expensive. And secondly, like for the first day you have fresh lettuce, but then if you want to eat it like a week later, it's going to be like not very good. So what I really like about lettuce is you can just cut off as many leaves. is you want to eat on a particular day, and the lettuce will just keep growing. Yeah. What?

You don't have to harvest the whole. No. You just snip whatever leaves you want, it just keeps growing. How long does it take to grow less? Probably like six weeks for it to be harvestable in some way. And then it just hangs out for like three months. And you have fresh lettuce whenever you want it.

It's great. Highly recommend it. This is actually a life hack. It's actually a life hack. It's actually a life hack. They have lettuce that goes. Dale in my fridge because I'm like, okay, peeling it off the sphere of lettuce. Yeah.

I know that's not the name. No, sphere of lettuce sounds great. So the other thing about potatoes is you just stick them in the ground and they just grow. They just like keep growing. You just like reach into the ground and you just pull out a potato. I know not about gardening, okay? I'm actually shocked right now. Oh, yeah.

I just thought like, you know, you see an old tree. It takes 70 years to grow. I'm just surprised that lettuce takes a month. Yeah. Some of that stuff takes weeks. Oh, I need to get some lettuce. Yeah, it's highly recommend it. The one thing is my lettuce started getting bitter.

Like, I don't know if you've had like bitter lettuce, and I could never figure out why it was bitter. And I couldn't make it kind of sweet. So. I've never had better lettuce. That sounds like a big you issue. Are you sure you're not like eating some weird bitter? You've had bitter lettuce?

Yeah, kind of bitter. It has like a bitter taste to it. it maybe it is a problem. Now you're frightening me. I never really thought about it. No, it was like fresh, but it was just had this bitter taste to it. Okay. And you just ate it. You just kept eating it. Which now I'm beginning to realize may have been a mistake. You were like, well, you know, I myself, it might taste better. I could be eating a fucking lettuce that tastes like piss and he'd be like, well, I grew myself, Bonapete. Fair enough. Yeah, maybe I should have paused a little bit there. I, I mean, I had. Like, did you, did you put it in boiling water?

Lettuce? No. I ate it raw. I mean, that's... Really? Yeah. Do you cook your lettuce? How are you supposed to boil it to get the insects off?

No, you can wash it. But do you boil lettuce? Do you cook your lettuce? Usually you eat it in salad. No. I just buy it from the store. I just assume because there's dirt on it. Yeah, it could have been a problem now that I think about it.

Anyway, I don't have lettuce anymore. Like I said, all I've got left is potatoes and sweet potatoes. problem with sweet potatoes is that they are very big but don't taste very sweet. Feel like maybe your garden isn't really work. Like, your sweet potatoes don't taste sweet. Your lettuce tastes better. That's two big, big, big issues there. Well, look, you're proud of it.

You're proud of it. So I'm, look, go on you for growing it, but don't eat stuff that doesn't taste like. The, on the upside, on the upside, my peas are excellent. Like, amazing. Like, better than most of what I've tasted in my time. peas anymore. Yeah, I mean, because they're a winter crop. So they're gone now. Oh, they grow in the winter. Brick. Well, then how do I get peas right now? Answer that. Answer, read that. Riddle me that. There may be some kind of hydroponic sort of stuff where you can

grow it in certain kinds of controlled environments. That's also why peas are frozen, right? So if you wanted to buy peas right now and you went to the grocery store, you would not find fresh peas. You don't see fresh peas at the grocery store. You just see frozen peas. So they freeze up. Okay. I'm so stupid. I didn't even realize this. Oh my God. I'll never be a farmer. Man, my ancestors are crying and rolling over in their bed. Well, I didn't know any of this. You know, it's interesting that you mentioned that because there's actually an interesting theory that not really that scientifically valid. I can go into the data if you really want to. That people with ADHD were like not farmers. So there are some societies that had were more hunter gatherers. And those societies actually have a higher genetic predisposition for ADHD. So even if you're thinking about a hunter, if you think about a farmer,

they wake up at the same time, they do the same damn thing every time all day, wake up at 5 a.m. They water this, they do this, they do this, they do this, they go to bed at the same time, right? Same routine, routine, routine, routine, routine. They never get bored. They're happy.

Yeah. Some people are. And then you have hunters who are like out in the wilderness. They're like thinking about this thing. They're listening to this sound over here. They're looking at this footprint over here. They're smelling this thing. Oh, there's a little bit of like fur over here.

And so they're like integrating a lot of stimuli, and they don't need to be focused on one thing at the same time. And in fact, the most successful hunters were the ones whose attention could bounce all over the place. And so there's some evidence that societies that have more hunter-gatherer, a greater amount of hunter-gathering as opposed to farming, have a higher genetic amount of predisposition towards ADHD, because it was actually more adaptive. The problem is that there's larger studies where we look at that more closely, and it turns out that that doesn't seem to be quite as simple as that, or may not even be true. But it's an interesting hypothesis that ADHD is essentially an outgrowth of, like, variable attention in hunter-gatherer societies.

That's actually so interesting. Holy. God, it's actually so impressive how you ray it back around. Like, I know I got sidetracked with the vegetable thing, but like, so I'm a hunter. Oh yeah. That's why you're so successful as a streamer, right? So like, so this is the other thing.

I am beginning to think also that ADHD may be an adaptive advantage for content creation. I actually agree with that. That's why I said. I said, I'm like, why take, why take ADHD medication when you can let it out and be funny and like be all over the place and keep going? I feel like that's, that's something that I always say. I think my BPD and my ADHD has helped me grow because I'm sure you know what BPD I feel like I can have the time

I don't know who I am like I disassociate a lot because I see a person and I mimic them to fit in so with streamers I feel like I can you know mimic not mimic but like see how they act and then act like them and fit in perfectly and I feel like that's what really helped me grow and like have kind of a foot in this industry.

Yeah, so it sounds like you can be what people need you to be. Yeah. Yeah, well, I feel like that's normal, though. Like every, you know, I feel like even for like every friend group, you're a different person. Well, so this is the interesting thing. So I think people with BPD may be particularly good at that, right? So everyone is going to adapt some. But then sometimes you'll have people who like stick out like a sort thumb, you know,

like they're just not able to adapt. The other really interesting thing about ADHD is there are studies that show that, so this is wild, okay? So people were looking at how often people have ADHD and depression. So if you have depression as a kid, just toss out a number, minks. What percentage of people who you think have depression as a kid grow up to be diagnosed with ADHD? I'm setting you up to-

40. I'm setting you up to, it's 2.7%. 3%. Okay. Now, hold on a second. What percentage of kids with ADHD grow up to have depression? 2%. 50 to 70%.

I debated you there. That's what to make sense. Huh? How does that make sense? It's fascinating. So if you're a child with ADHD, the likelihood that you'll be depressed as an adult is between 50 and 70%. So people were trying to figure out if a kid has ADHD and depression,

or do they just happen together or does one cause the other? But kids with depression don't grow up to have ADHD, but kids with ADHD grow up to have depression. And this is really fascinating. A big part of this is discordant relationships. So when you're a kid with ADHD at the age of seven, and everyone's in recess is standing in line to get on the slide. And when you have ADHD and you can't stand in a line,

so you wander away and then you come back and you cut, right? Because you were in line. You were ahead of this kid. And then you wandered away for a minute. And now that kid is like second from the front. And you step back in front of him and you're like, this is my place in line. And then you cause conflict. So kids don't like kids with ADHD.

They feel very lonely. They're isolated. They can't attend to conversations. They can't pay attention. So you know what kids end up doing? They end up becoming funny. They end up being the class clown. Because I don't have to know what's going on, but if my mind is fast and I can make some fart joke, or if I can fart in front of this teacher, everyone will laugh.

And so kids are actually with ADHD are very isolated growing up. They have a lot of social problems. And that's part of the reason they probably get depressed is adults because they don't, it's difficult. But what they do end up doing is being funny, just like you, minx. Right? Because you're very good at being funny. Oh, there's always a win, huh? We're always looking at the wind side.

My grow up alone, might, you know, years of turmoil with no friends. Well, look at me now. Yeah. It's funny. And a woman. Sorry, that was a low blow. I think women are funny. It's just, I've seen comedians say that.

I just, I'm a woman. I can, now, now I'm bottling it, so we're going to change. Back to ADHD, Doc. What? How about that? You just, okay, sure. I didn't. catch that. I didn't quite follow, but yeah, back to ADHD. So going back to diagnosis,

so remember there's personality diagnosis, which takes a long time because we have to see fluctuations. And then there are things like ADHD. So there are some diagnoses which you can do faster because they're essentially malfunctions. So you can sort of like look at someone who's like bipolar, has major depressive disorder. And you can see like, okay, this is not how the brain is supposed to be working. Whereas the interesting thing about a personality disorder is, is that even though it causes them problems, it's the way that their brain grew up, like learning how to survive.

So, for example, people with BPD will have, one of the features of it is a fear of abandonment. And the reason for that is because oftentimes people with BPD like got abandoned in some way growing up. So their brain is like, this is bad. Let's make sure this never happens again. We want to watch out for this and we need to be terrified of this. And so their brain forms with a fear of abandonment.

Right? That's not, it's not a bug. It becomes a feature. So we need to protect ourselves from being abandoned because it hurts so damn much the last time. We don't want it to ever happen again. So then I've, because, you know, you've, obviously you know your shit. Is there any way a BPD brain can stop? Because the most annoying thing is I am self-aware when it's happening.

And I'm trying to tell myself, stop thinking this, calm down. So I can't. Let me ask you a question, makes. Do you think that personalities can change over the course of someone's life? Yes. Then the answer to your question is yes. I completely agree with you. Right?

So the way that we perceive and behave can change. And so the good news is that there is data that shows that BPD can essentially be cured. Like cure is like, it's a weird. word, but essentially you can have sustained remission after a certain amount of time and treatment or even stable relationships. So people have done studies that show that 50%, we don't 100% know about this, but being in a stable relationship for two years can potentially, not quite cure, but essentially make it so that people no longer have, 50% of people no longer have VPD if they're in a stable relationship.

relationship for two years. Now, does that mean that you have to be in a relationship? Is that the only cure for BPD? No. So you can be in treatment and learn things like there are evidence-based treatments like dialectical behavioral therapy. What are you looking for? My phone, I'm about down old Bumble. If I knew that was the cure, you know, would have got Tinder and Bumble a few years ago. It's not just the cure. So this is epidemiologic data. So people have done studies and taken people that have BPD and then no longer seem to have BPD and what changed, they were in a stable relationship for two years. But what we do know that you can do, so this is a little bit tricky, whereas I wouldn't say that finding a relationship is necessarily a cure to BPD.

But what you can do is do treatment like dialectical behavioral therapy. So that's like it's a kind of therapy that's heavily influenced by mindfulness is fascinating. So there was a psychologist named Marshall Innahan, who herself had BPD. And what she was trying to figure out is like what worked for me, became a psychologist, was also very high functioning, very successful, and developed the best treatment for BPD on the planet, which is dialectical behavioral therapy. So that's what I would recommend if you, you don't want to get better. Dialectical behavioral therapy. And I can even explain to you kind of what it is and how it works. Yeah, because at the time, at the time, they sent me to a lot of therapy, but,

but it was like the exact therapy I was going for my depression, where it felt like it didn't do a thing. I didn't know there were like different types. Yeah, if you could explain it instead of me reading it off, go that would be handy? Thank you. So I'm going to ask you a couple of like somewhat personal questions. You don't have to offer a whole lot of detail.

It's going to be like more yes or no. If you want to add color or explain what your experiences, you can, but you don't have to. Okay. So sometimes people with BPD, their way of thinking about something, becomes very black and white and very rapidly. And oftentimes completely black.

So is that something that you feel comfortable? Like, can you just give us an example? Like, it doesn't even have to be real. But, like, has that happened to you where... It consists of me. Like, it'll be something small, like, like, I'll be driving in the car. I'll get a message that just upsets me.

And I'm like, everything I'm doing today sucks because this is in my head for the... And I'm like, what's the point in being happy when this one thing has upset me? or like even when people are like, even when people are just late to something, I'm like, well, now we can't plan efficiently and like it's ruined and it's like everything's just, and I can't see the bright side. Oh, perfect, right? Can't see the bright side.

Okay. So it's ruined. So when one bad things happen, it's ruined, period. Yeah. Right? You can't see the bright side. I couldn't say it better myself. So what Marshall Inane did is she studied Buddhism and she discovered a very interesting principle that is

rooted in something called advaite Vedanta, which is non-dualism. Okay, I know it sounds kind of weird. Oh, we'll catch you up. Give me a second. So essentially what she discovered is something that she translated into English is the dialectic, which is that two things that are polar opposites can be true at the same time. And once someone with BPD understands that and can live that, they get a lot better. So I'll give you an example. I can be mad at you and still love you. And still love you. But someone with BPD can't hold both of those thoughts. That's why it's so terrifying.

Either you love me or you're mad at me. And I can't have you ever being mad at me because that means you don't love me. So it's ruined means you're late, therefore it's ruined. It's impossible for you're late and we can still have a good, time. Sure, we're half an hour late, but we can make the most of the next three hours. That thought is very hard for people with BPD. I know. It's pissing me off now because I'm literally thinking like someone didn't reply to my text for two days because they were busy and I'm like, I'm done with this person.

Yes. I'm like, I'm like they can't even send me a message. Like I am completely done. They're cut off and then they message me like, I'm so sorry. And I'm like, oh, you're fine. And it's like, Why can I change from planning to cut them out forever to being like, you're my best friend. I love you. Yeah. And not balance it. Yeah.

So here's the thing. Here's the tricky thing about what DBT teaches people. It's not balancing it. It's not that one goes down and one comes up. It's that both are true at the same time in their intensity. So over time, it will lead to balance. But it's kind of this idea that like, I don't know how else to say it. just replacing in your mind.

So when your mind reacts to something, it's never and it's always but. Yes. Right? It's either or. It can never be like two things. Like this person is mad at me and they love me. Like you can't say that.

That's annoying. I'm aware of that. And I'm saying to you, I'm aware of it. So why at the time, every time, because I've had BPD for years, why can't I stop and realize that at the time? And why does it take the next day to be like, oh, actually cutting this person out my life and blocking them is not the solution. It's so aggravating.

Because I know I'm talking about my issue, but it keeps happening. Good, excellent question. So let me ask you a couple of questions, okay? So what's different? You said, why can't I realize it until the next day, right? You said that. You asked that question. So let me ask you, what's different between the day it happens and the next day?

My emotions are strong because I'm overthinking and they did something. Excellent, right? So, 100% correct. So this is where, remember how you were saying that your stress levels, I drew the stress graph and you're like, no, Dr. Kay, that's wrong. It's way higher and way lower. So people have done studies. This is really fascinating.

When you have someone who has BPD, their ability to, their brain's ability to experience negative emotion is way faster. than a neurotypical brain. So your ability to like, for me to go to zero to a hundred in terms of being pissed will take me like 60 seconds. For someone with BPD, it'll take like four. I'm just making those numbers up. I don't know what the exact numbers are.

But the ability for someone's brain with BPD to experience negative emotion is more rapid. The other really, really thing that just causes people to suffer a lot is the ability for the brain to calm down takes longer. So not only is it easier for you to feel negative emotion if you have BPD, but it takes you longer to kind of like reconstitute. So it'll take 24 hours instead of like two hours. That's so annoying because that means like my brain is actually slower than others. It's like why? Because I know like I should be able to because right now I'm thinking about stuff that I got mad about where I'm like, why did I get mad about that?

Or like even times like I'm going to out myself here. older sister upset me recently because she said something to my mom and I attacked my mom over it because I'm like, why didn't you tell me this? You're fake. And then the next day I was like, I love you. I'm sorry. I don't know why I did that. And it's like, why do I even go for the kill when that person hasn't upset me? Yeah. So that's where that's where, so if we talk about the treatment of dialectical behavioral therapy, that's why mindfulness is such a big part of it. So mindfulness is going to be one of the central techniques that can literally, like train your brain, like everyone's brain, to be like emotionally a little bit more detached,

emotionally kind of calm down. You look like you're getting emotional a little bit now. Is it happening? Just like me. Are you frustrated? Are you frustrated with yourself? It's annoying because I'm talking about here, but why can't my brain understand it when it's happening? Okay, hold on a second. So, Minks, are you being black and white in the way that you judge yourself in this moment?

Maybe. Say more. What are you thinking about yourself? Because I can see all like a lot of relationships I've ruined with it and talking about it. It's just like different and easier to understand. But then at the time it's like how is my brain so fucking dumb and slow that I can't process and realize how normal the situation is instead of blowing up and ruining everything. Yeah. So that in and of itself so makes it's going to sound kind of weird.

But I want you to take a step back from this. that conclusion, because that conclusion is black and white, that you're fucking dumb and slow. Because you're neither dumb, nor are you slow. What you have to understand about, this is what I've come to understand about BPD, is the reason your brain is like that is because it's like that to protect you. Because there was probably a time in your life that if it did not think like that, you would have been screwed. So BPD is like your guard dog.

And now what's happened is that, you know, people have been trying to break into your house for so long that any stranger that comes over, it starts barking. So you're not busted, you're not broken, you're an amazing person. This is just what happens. This is your karma. It's your karma that you grew up in a particular circumstance where you have these particular ways that you're wired that, let's remember, makes you more successful at streaming, has allowed you to come to L.A., has allowed you to fit into the streamer culture,

and causes you to suffer, right? That both of these things can be true. That this can, I wouldn't quite call it a gift, but let's call it a gift, that some things it can do good for you and some things it can't. Now, I'm having trouble reading what's going on in your brain. Are you discarding everything that I'm saying?

No, I'm listening, and it does make me, like, it, I do like agree with the thing. Like, that's why I say I try to call it, gift because like half of my viral clips that happen is when I feel like a trigger goal in my brain and I'm like instead of ending and being upset act into that emotion and make it a character and it's like but it's also like turmoil when you're alone and it's like 100% and it makes it feels like I'm fucking mimicking my own issue and 100% like you know you disassociate you can't tell what's real and what's fake yeah so I think it's this is the real challenge

of people that I've worked with who have BPD is that it is so responsible for their success and causes them to suffer immensely. Right? Like, sure, you're successful, but boy, have you paid a price for it? And exactly like you said,

all the, like, darkness. Like, I call my mom all the time, like, every day, and I tell her, like, how sad I am. And then she'll be like, but look how much like you've done and how much you've grown, you're in LA, you're doing dreams,

and it just makes the thing because it's either black or white, and it's just so annoying because this is the first time I can properly talk about it. And it's like, I can put it to advantage, but it sucks so fucking bad when you're alone.

And I don't want to, like, I don't want to be with people because if it acts up, I just hurt them. Yeah. That sounds, like an impossible situation that you can't win. Because on the one hand, you don't want to be alone,

but on the other hand, you don't want to ruin your relationships. If it gets out of control, you feel like you're not in control. So almost to protect them, you have to be alone, and then you're signing yourself up for being alone and suffering. Exactly. Like, even small things, like, if I, like, have a plan and I'm like, because I sleep early, especially with my boxing, like, I had a plan for a friend to come over,

and they were like an hour and a half late and I ruined the whole night because I'm like, we waste that hour and a half and now I'm to sleep in an hour when we could have two and a half hours and they didn't get why I was upset? And I'm like, why can't I just tell you the reason?

Instead of being mad and sulky and it's annoying because I can talk about now but I can't talk about at the time. So this is, so I would, you know, if this is what I feel confident about Minks is that DBT generally speaking helps people a lot who are who struggle with the things that you struggle with and what it literally will do is like so this is why the mindfulness component is such a big

piece of it so there's a lot going on here so would it help you for me to talk through what I think it could help you with yeah can I think for a second and compose my thoughts I may have to whip out the iPad again okay you know what actually when I cry it brings color to my face and I'm kind of feeling cute right now. Usually I'm like a walking corpse. We got a little blush going on. Natural blush too. There's there's the humor.

There's the ADHD. There's the leaning into it. There's the entertainer. Right? Look at you looking at the dialectic now. Bring some color in. Hey. Yeah.

It's not all bad. Yeah. I'm like it's like my cheekbones pop too. I'm starting to feel like a little mubble. Look at you. Rocking it. Um, sorry, you just threw me off, which I'm not upset about. I really appreciate.

But I was just thinking a little bit about, okay, let me just think for a second, okay? Yes, take your time. I'll sing a little song with chat. Come by, I am a lord. Come by, yeah. Come by, yeah. I'm not singing Christian tunes. I don't know why I'm reverent to the.

Yeah. I ain't a Christian anymore. I'm agnostic. So let's think through... So let me just understand this, okay? So it seems like you're very frustrated with yourself for losing control. Yes. You're also not frustrated, but I get the sense of almost like you feel kind of powerless that it's like either or.

Like either you're on and you're streaming and successful and fun. and happy and or you're alone, which we haven't really talked too much about. I don't know that we really need to. But then in the loneliness, there's suffering. There's, you know, kinds of stuff. Then there's also, okay, so let's like think through this from a very basic level. So the first thing to understand is that we're talking about treatment. So here's the way that I would think about treatment for someone like you. This is basically I think about everyone with BPD. So the first is learning particular skills that literally like work on your brain and correct that emotional when I say sensitivity, I don't mean like, oh, you're sensitive. Like I mean like literally like your

neurons are like twitchy and their ability to get feel anger or upset or things like that is like very, very quick. Okay. So you can learn certain grounding techniques. I'm going to teach you one today. Okay? That will hopefully, if you practice it, because it takes practice, it'll help you, if we think about today versus tomorrow, what's different, that your emotions have calmed down.

It'll help you calm your emotions. And then if you calm your emotions, it'll be easier to realize. So this meditation technique won't help you realize. It won't make you realize anything. All it'll hopefully do is counteract that, rapidity which your brain gets upset with and also the length at which your brain stays upset. Okay? Yeah.

So we got to help you in the moment. Okay. Second thing. So we're going to start with like meditation at the top. Second thing. There are going to be things that you are frustrated with yourself. You're going to be frustrated with yourself because you have BPD. They're the things that you blen.

why can't I dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. That makes you lose confidence in yourself, right? Because you think you're busted on the inside. If you lose confidence with yourself, you become more vulnerable to the opinions of others. And then the love and affection of other people becomes more important to you. Because you don't believe it in here. that combined with the brain's itchiness creates like a bad scenario.

You see that? Like if I can't love myself, I need other people to love me. If they don't answer my text message, because they're going to be the ones, they're the ones that love me. Then like it triggers the whole thing. So the other thing that you need to do

is like forgive yourself for being who you are because this is all a part of your journey, minx, I believe that 100%. even if you think about if you never had BPD, we wouldn't be talking about this. We wouldn't be streaming online right now. A thousand people, 10,000 people, 20,000 people, 50,000 people would not watch this. And there are thousands of people just like you out there who may not even realize what they've got. Sure, it took you nine months to get diagnosed.

You got diagnosis. Think about all the people out there that have no idea. They understand this. They live it every single day, but they have no fucking clue. And so there is a karma to the work that we're doing here. There's like an important. That's actually something I always remind myself, like, because I know BPD is hard to diagnose and it can be misdiagnosed so many times where I'm grateful that I know what

the root of the issue is and that there is ways to work on it. Like, like you said, the therapy, which I'm definitely going to look into that. Yeah. So, so that, so the second thing is you got to learn how to forgive yourself for having BPD in the first place. next thing to do is understand the origins of it. So understand, because remember, this is your brain's way of protecting you. It's the way that your brain, like, it's not busted.

That's what's so tricky about a personality disorder versus something like depression. If there's a neurochemical imbalance, we can give you a pill to correct that neurochemical imbalance. It's actually a malfunction of the brain. Whereas narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, these are not malfunctions of the brain. They're adaptations of the brain that now start to cause you problems. So you have to understand where that came from. You have to understand why your brain evolved to be this way. And the truth is it's not your fault.

You're not like fundamentally busted. It learned somewhere along the way that we need these techniques. It's like, I don't know what games you play or if you play games, but I almost think about personality disorders is like blood magic. You know what blood magic is? Have you played any games with blood magic? I've not played games with blood magic, actually. So like this is this idea where you've got like manna, right?

And you use mana to cast spells. But then there's blood magic where you use your life essence to cast spells. And so everything that every step forward comes at a cost to you. And I almost think about personality disorders is like the blood magic of psychiatry. I'm a fucking wizard is what you're saying. You are a wizard, right? But you pay the price for it. Each time you cast a.

spell. Each time you work your magic, it comes with a fucking price. But now that makes BPD so much cooler. Now I'm like, well, you know, yeah, you put it into that little perspective. And I'm like, I'm pretty cool my BPD. You're right. Yeah. I mean, so like, I think that's the thing about blood magic is it sounds cool when you play it in a video game sucks to actually be the wizard who's like losing a piece of their life force. Right? That's true. But I think. it is useful to understand the origins of why you are the way that you are. And then ultimately, I think it comes back to meditation.

So once you do all that stuff, and you also develop like coping skills and things like that, once you come back to it, I think that there's almost like a spirituality to it that at the end of the day, when I work with people who are like really, I can't say the word cured because who knows how they're doing now, but people who get so much better to where they no longer, if they went to a psychiatrist and they put them through the diagnostic process of BPD, they would not qualify. That's what we can say confidently. Is that there is like almost like a spirituality to it.

And this is what I think Marshall Linnehan kind of stumbled upon is that the world is fundamentally not black or white. Like if you think about, you said that, you know, the potatoes or my lettuce is bitter or, you know, the sweet potato isn't sweet. Now, why are you coming back to potatoes? It was Doc. I said nothing about your potatoes. I'm just, I'm just, I, talk shit about your lettuce.

No, no, I'm not. I'm not, I'm not, being very stereotypical over here. We miss murder. No, no, no, no. No, no. Let me finish, please, makes.

So like, at the end of the day, not all sweet potatoes are going to be sweet. Right? Some of them are going to be sweeter than others. And that's just life. That at the end of the day, like even beyond DBT and dialectics and being able to hold two opposites to be true, that's just what life.

is, that life is ups and life is downs. And even then, if you really go far into spirituality, you can start to do things like develop a detachment, where you can acknowledge that, did I want this thing? Yes. Did I want my friend to show up on time? And could we have had two and a half hours of fun? Yes. But they showed up an hour late. And so the most I can get is an hour and a half of fun. And now I sort of have not really the choice because we can't really control it. We make it sound like a choice. It's really not. You know, with practice, And with dedication and with effort, I can still enjoy the next 90 minutes. And this is something that I've seen a lot with, like, you know, people like,

and it sounds kind of weird, but some of the most inspiring moments in medicine for me have been people who have been diagnosed with cancer. So it's like they have a limited time on this earth left. And like, you know, some of them really learned to make the most of it. And like the last year or two years of their life, like, is there suffering and awfulness? Absolutely. But there's also like beauty. And like, that's what life is.

and they serve as an inspiration to people around them. And then I also hear really bizarre things, which I still have trouble accepting, which is like, cancer is the best thing that ever happened to me. People will actually say that, right? Usually these are people that are in remission. Because, you know, but that, like, cancer helps them realize what life is and, like, stuff like that. I mean, people will say things like that. It sounds crazy.

It is. It is, but it does make sense. And gone back to, you said something there where it was, like, the last 90 minutes. is what matters and it's like that's another thing that affects the because you said you know a new days new emotions and that's true i restart but then you know the guilt that comes with it because i'm like i'll think exactly what you said that or that my night minutes i have that in my head the next day i'm like why did you have to be like that and be so moody when you could have enjoyed the time that you had with them and then i feel worse the next day because i just have a guilt building up in me and

It's like, damn, you were so angry then when you could have. You didn't even have to be angry. Just neutral. You didn't have to. So that's the tricky thing. So that is the same thing, though, because that's the black and white. Because the next day, instead of enjoying today, you're ruining today by thinking about yesterday. And so the cycle perpetuates.

So that's where you really have to learn how to forgive yourself. Because if you can learn how to forgive yourself, you can also learn how to forgive your friend. for the 60 minutes they're late, and enjoy the 90 minutes. It actually starts with the next day, not the 90 minutes. It starts with, hey, this is the way that I am, whether you believe in God or karma or entropy or chance or whatever. This is the way that the universe has made me. Right?

I'm a, I'm the, this is the fruit that has been born from the tree of my life. And this is what it is. It may not be the sweetest fruit, but that's okay. Right. So it starts by like, ford, giving yourself, like, really? And like the four components are like learning how to manage your emotions in the moment, learning how to forgive yourself for not managing the emotions in the moment, learning the origins of why your brain developed to be this way, and ultimately like almost

take a spiritual perspective and recognize that this is all what's supposed to happen. And that despite all of the suffering that you have, you can grow from it, you can learn from it, you can appreciate life so much more through these experiences, you can help the world and make them a better place and your community absolutely loves you. And that's where like because, like, sure, you're here with blood magic and you're suffering, but you've enriched so many people around you. So you suffer and you make the world a better place. You have fun and you suffer. And you are, I'm sure, frustrating to deal with by some of your friends at times. And, an absolute joy to have in their lives.

I'd fucking hope so. I get these bitches food all the time. They better, I better be a fucking joy in their life. Yeah. And that's where you may be getting them food, but bribery only works so far. And at some point they stick around.

No, no. You get that to boa? Bribery always works, okay? What? Not getting you very far. Bribery will always work, okay? Bitches love some bribery. some bribery on a Wednesday evening.

Is it Wednesday? Yeah. There we go. No on the dates. Look at me. How you holding up, Minks? Good. Really good, actually.

This was not how I expected to go. I was expecting more to be like, funny the whole time, but it's actually been really helpful. Yeah. I'm noticing that maybe. if we pause for a second, you're feeling conflicting things now. I'm feeling that you might be correct, actually. Right?

So that's good, right? So this is where like, this is just what you have to learn. And the cool thing is like right now you're feeling those emotions. I actually see you doing it right now. I see you feeling the emotions and feeling them intensely, but also not losing control of them. And it's, what you're doing right now is hard. It's to be commended.

Thank you. Thank you. Could we get a course? in chat please if we commending it I'd like a wait that's not the emote I don't know I just did what you did I didn't know what you're doing it oh seven I mean oh seven there they go

what does that mean they're commending me for my bravery on dealing with my emotions do you not have a do you just seeing 07 are you not seeing the emote yeah I'm just seeing oh seven okay so it's a salute they're doing a salute

okay well I I salute you I suppose I just feel weird saluting people because I don't know how to do it properly. I think you did it fantastically. Thank you. Okay. Beautiful sigh. You want to learn a little meditation technique?

Man, I've tried meditation so many times and I'm like, oh, now walk. Yeah. Make me better already. I'll sit there cross-legged and I'm like, sir. I'm with you. Yeah, those, those meditation techniques suck. Can I try to teach you something else? Yes.

Okay. So, hmm, I felt confident what I was going to teach you, but I wonder, okay, now we're just going to do this. All right, so I'm going to teach you, so I'm going to share with you a phrase in English, okay? So have you heard the phrase, this two shall pass? Yes, my mother says this to me every day I call her. And does that upset you? No, it's just comforting at this point. It used to upset me as a kid. I'm like, okay, stop.

But now hearing it from a distance, I'm like, you're right, this two shall pass. So I can't tell if that means that this is the right thing to teach you or the wrong thing to teach you. But let's stick with it for now. Okay? And so what I'm going to teach you is a really simple technique. So if you look at the sections of your fingers, okay? So like you see these like you've got three on each finger. Uh-huh.

So I want you to start with this one, the middle one of your ring finger. Okay, but your... And then what I want you to do is we're going to go up to the tip, out to the side, to the pinky, down to the middle. Good, and then down to the bottom. Good. And then across this way. Good. And then across this way.

And then across this way. And we're going to go up. We're going to go up. We're going to go up. We're going to go across, down, and then back to where we started. Middle of the ring finger. So you see we're making a loop. So we're kind of going like that, and we're making like kind of a loop.

You see that? Oh, yes. So there's 12. There are 12 of these. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12. And then back to the center. So what I want you to do, the next time you're feeling upset, and we're going to practice now, the next time you can't let something go. Okay? What I want you to do is do 12 rounds, close your eyes, take a deep breath, and do 12 rounds of this two shall pass, and do one breath with each one.

And what I really want you to focus on is the sensation across your fingers of just touching, touching, touching, and that's the thing. And then like, so does that sort of make sense? We're going to do like, you can take a deep breath in. You're going to say, this two shall pass. And then you're going to move on to the next one. No, I actually like this way. I never even thought. I, like, damn, I actually like this way.

Because I feel like, when I got anxious, I, like, will scratch my palm a lot or something. But this is more like a chill way. And it also makes me feel like I'm in Tokyo goo. So. So let's do it together, okay? So, do you, did you get the sequence? I know it's, I know it's, kind of confusing. So we're going to start here.

Little. Oh. Okay. Yep. And then show me what's next. So yeah. So we go down and then out. Oh, down and out. I thought it was up and out. Okay, down. Down, right? Then out to the pinky. And then up the pinky. Good. And then this way. And then this way. Right. And then this way. And then down. Two. Good. And then three. And then back to the center. Okay. Good. Yeah, don't skip the pinky, the middle pinky. I skipped it.

That was confusing because I'm kind of ADHD too. Okay. So there should be, so just touch each of them 12 times. I mean, sorry, they touched each time once, and that'll be 12 rounds. Good, very good. So then the middle, good. Down, back towards the middle finger, good. And then cross over, perfect.

Okay, so we're really going to focus. on that tactile stimulation. So you can take, if you, this is the other thing. The more upset you are, you don't have to do one breath with each one. If you're upset, you can do it super fast. This two shall pass.

This two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall fucking fast.

Okay. And then slow it down. Okay. This two shall pass. Wait, I like this. This is very comforting. Maybe it's because my mom always says it so reminds me of home, but it's also like fixing my nail digging thing.

It's like a mix of both. I've never heard of this. Two shall pass. Two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall pass. This two shall pass. Good. Okay. Now, you can work your way up to doing it nine times. So you can do this when you're upset, but ideally you want to do nine rounds or one hundred and breaths or 108 this two shall pass. Okay? So you can even keep track, if you want to get things super complicated,

you may lose this because of ADHD, but you can even keep track on this hand. So as I do 12 over here, I move down here. Oh, no, no shot. I'm gonna count and be able to do that. Okay, don't worry about it. You know, I got a small frontal lobe.

I got epilepsy. Well, that's true. Did you know that? People always think I'm joking when I say it. People with epilepsy have a smaller frontal lobe that, like, hinders their decisions. Yeah, people with ADHD have that too. Oh, great. So you're saying I'm a double small brain, huh?

No. I think that that's probably... Well, fuck me, I guess. Do you mind if I ask how old you are? I'm 25. Okay. So your frontal lobe will continue to grow until you're 30 or 32. So things could get better for you, even just on their own.

Let's have our fingers crossed. She better be growing, man. I'm missing a big part of my brain right now. Do you have any questions about the meditation technique? Do you understand it? No, I actually do understand that. I like it. I thought you were going to make me like crisp cross my legs and like close my eyes at home in silence for like 30 minutes.

No, silence is terrible. So when you're way better. So here's the thing for you, Minks. You need activity and grounding for meditation. What you're, you don't, silence is just going to be filled. with your negative thoughts. Like if you try to like sit and meditate when you're struggling, like you have so much energy in the mind, right? Like that's what makes you so damn successful is you've got like so much energy. And so what you need to do is direct that energy because

when you get upset with yourself, it's just bouncing around in your head and creating thought after thought after thought after thought and it ramps up and ramps up and ramps up and ramps up. This two shop out, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom as fast as you can go like a machine gun and then slow down. You know what? You said bouncing and that's actually how I explain it. When I'm angry, you know the Windows logo when it hits the corners? Oh yeah. It feels like that's what's like in my head ticking. It's like boom. And every time it hits, it ticks me like it makes me angrier and angrier and angrier over a small situation. I don't know if I agree with small, right? Because the whole point is that it's not small to you. It's black and white and I just see it as

It's dark, so it's big to me. But so it could be a small. So if you stop seeing it as small, because that's the, that's the black and white. You see that? Because if you view it as a small situation, that means that it's insignificant. And you're so stupid for getting caught up in it. That's the, no, it's important. You were really looking forward to this.

And your friend was an hour late. And it's okay to be upset by that, right? A very smart person. Huh? I understand. and huh? You're very understanding guy. Man, saying my thoughts before I can even think them out here.

Yeah, I mean, I think cut yourself a little slack. Thanks. Seriously. You deserve it. Biggs. Thank you. And now I've gone and messed it all up again. This too shall pot. See, I'm not even mad now. This is just a comforting. cry. It's more like a comforting one. Good. Well, any thoughts or, I mean, I feel like this is a good place to stop for today in general. Like, I think we've covered a lot. And yeah, you know, I don't want to

forget what we learned in the first half. Do you want to, do you have any thoughts or questions? I don't, I don't really have any questions. I just feel more like a, this was a dice. It's, because it's, you know, like you, you have therapy alone, private thing where it's nice to be able to talk about it and like in a safe environment chat you'd be very sweet where I was just like not expecting to open up so much but yeah you'd be very nice too so

I thought we were going to do ADHD lecturing uh fucking man this ADHD we skirt from fucking lettuce to fucking graphs yeah you can't you can't blame me for this this is you like asking about your lettuce

your bitter lettuce by the way and also there was a point where you spoke about Like, you did an analogy and you were like, not all sweet potatoes are sweet and you were really into it. But I wanted to roast you and I'm like, man, that's just your fucking sweet potatoes. You literally like said earlier, sometimes they're not sweet. I'm like, I think this is an analogy like hitting close home. I've never had a sweet potato that was not sweet. Okay.

That's just you and your strange ass garden, okay? Yeah, maybe with my bitter lettuce and unsweet sweet potatoes. I don't really know what I'm growing here. Manzi is in the absolute salad. Roast away. You know, that only makes it sweeter. Okay, well, Minx, I wish you all the best. Good luck.

Thank you. One very concrete recommendation, I would recommend you kind of look into DBT a little bit more. There are also groups, which can be really, really good that they'll teach you like the skills and stuff. So you can just like kind of look in your area if you're, and, you know, if you have any questions or anything like that, just DM me. Okay. Perfect. Thank you for having me on. Appreciate it.

Thank you very much. Take care. Thank you for helping me. Bye. Bye. Okay. So that was that. That changed rapidly.

But we talked about a lot of important stuff. Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I think mental health is like, we kind of think about it so in isolation. Right? about ADHD or we think about BPD or we think about Adderall or not Adderall or like, you know, medication or not medication. Whereas like the truth is like it's so much more integrated than that. And the people who tend to do well, I think, are the ones that are really able to take an integrated non-isolating approach, which is part of what I dislike about the way that this profession is going.

So like one thing that we see a lot in the United States, which is not, I mean, it's good for a lot of reasons, but has like some serious cost to it, is the separation of medication from psychotherapy. So a lot of times people will have a psychiatrist who prescribes medications and someone else who does therapy, which sort of makes sense. I mean, there's a lot of good reasons that we do that because there's a shortage of prescribers, for example. So like, you know, you can just treat more people as a society if you have someone kind of prescribing and someone else doing therapy.

So there's like some like, you know, public health, access to health. health care kind of issues there that sort of makes sense for that. Also, you don't, sometimes the medication is pretty simple and it's not necessarily that integrated. But I think, you know, one of the things that I've come to really appreciate is that taking care of your mental health and like being happy or healthy is not just medications. It's not just therapy. It's like the whole shebang, right? It's like learning skills to calm down your emotional mind. And I don't say that as an indictment. I mean, when your mind is ramped up, your brain is ramped up and it's triggered in a particular way.

And your neurons are just, you know, you get that kind of like thoughts bouncing around in your head. You need something to decompress that in the moment. But that's not enough. Right. Then you also have to understand, okay, how did my brain get to here? How did my mind get to here? Why do I perceive the world in this way? And that's what I really like about some of these, you know, deeper kinds, this deeper sort of work is you start to recognize where your patterns come from.

and once you recognize where your patterns come from, then the cool thing is that that forgiveness becomes so much easier. Because the whole thing is like, we just think that we're idiots and we're busted. Like, oh my God, like, why am I so stupid? No, it's like you became that way because it actually served a very important function for you. And then what we also have to do is think a little bit about the consequences of things like BPD and ADHD. So this is part of the reason why I think people with ADHD grow up to have depression is because they, like, don't know how to properly mourn their, like, negative experiences.

Right? Because when you're a kid, like, this is what's so hard is that being ADHD makes you fail at being normal. So you're smart and you know you're smart, but you can't do what other kids can do. And so, like, that consequence or that conclusion that, like, I just can't be normal. Like, there's something wrong with me. That seed is what really grows into depression. And so this is where there's not just the ADHD itself, right? There's not just like the attention problems and things like that.

There's also like the consequences of having lived with it, which require another like layer of work. But the good news is that, you know, some people may think, oh my God, this is so overwhelming. Like, how am I supposed to do all this stuff? But the good news is that if you're kind of feeling like you're stuck in life and you haven't done any of these things and you feel like, okay, I'm operating at like 40% of my potential. The good news is that the more things that you haven't done, like, you can get 20% from meditation, 20% from self-forgiveness, and 20% from, like, you know, learning, like, organizational skills for ADHD. And you can get to 100%. That's the real thing that I've seen as a provider, like as a treater, as a psychiatrist.

Is that there's a, like, people, you will be amazed at what people are capable of. You will be amazed at what you're capable of. And, like, actually getting there. Because the truth of the matter is that most of us haven't done most of us. of this stuff. And there's a lot to be done. And you just got to get started. And then it'll like happen. Like I give it like three to six months for each of those things. And then a year to 18 months from now, you will be in a completely different place.