HealthyGamerGG - Why Potential is Paralyzing | Burnt-Out Gifted Kids Interview

Episode Date: December 5, 2020

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its science and evolution, and how we are working to transform cancer detection. The Cancer Signal episodes are available now. So thank you guys very much for being here. Let's go ahead and start with just introductions. So do you guys just want to tell us a little bit about, so tell us what you'd like to be referred to as what you go by? And then tell us a little bit about kind of your story as like you're kind of identifying as a gifted kid and what that was like. Okay. So I'm said I'm in my final year of my college program.

and so my story is in elementary school and a high school I was able to like I didn't always hit it out of the park but in the places that counted I could always make things work but then when I got to university there were uh there were so for example there were all these other tasks like finding good internships and uh helping out professors with research assistantships and doing side projects and all of these were things where I either like did uh where my results were mediocre compared to my peers or like I didn't do them at all. So I went from a place where everything I did, like I could make work to a state where everything I touched just turned into ash. Okay. I'm Alcom. Do you want me to, yeah? Yeah, I'm Alcum. Cool. So, and I was like labeled as like a gifted kid like early on when I was like in elementary school. And like throughout like elementary and middle school, I never really had any problems with like any of my classes. Um, one of the, feelings that I always like associate with is like there was kind of like this weird like cast system where like I was like pulled out of my classes and like like taught different material.

And I was always kind of like separated from like everyone else who wasn't in like the advanced classes. And then coming into like high school when I had to like when I went to like public high school in my second year of high school, I had to like reintegrate. And so that was a weird feeling. And then on top of that things just stopped coming as easily to me. And I realized that I never really developed like good study skills, good time management, things like that. And I was just consistently falling behind. And this last semester in college has kind of been like the, this, it was my first semester in college, has been like the, all of that like kind of conglomerating together. And I just did really poorly. And I'm actually dropping out this year

and I'm joining the military. Okay. Um, okay, uh, I'm B, I guess. Uh, to basically same story like labeled gifted kid in like elementary school I did like pretty fine up until like pretty much until high school finished I graduated year early from like an aerospace academy

but I didn't really want to do aerospace stuff so I thought I might want to do engineering things so I had like a full ride scholarship essentially and I lost it because I, like, failed a couple of classes for really silly reasons. And so I decided to try to do, like, engineering things.

So I got, like, a job at an engineering firm. And it's just not something I wanted to do. So now I've just been doing nothing for, like, the past year and a half. Okay. I can go. I go by soul. And, yeah, so I was, like, early on, labeled as gifted kid or school district had a gifted and talented education program.

They call it like gate. And yeah, same story. Elementary, middle school, high school, or just like a breeze. Basically, I put in minimal effort and still got good grades, which made it so that I didn't feel like, I didn't even have like the energy to try at school. And I, that's basically where I'm at now in university is like, I'm still trying to do the bare minimum to get good grades and I can't find the energy to pursue other things or like work on side projects or try to find an internship. Yeah, that's where I'm at.

Okay. And I'm Jacob. I grew up, you know, there wasn't a gift and talented program when I was growing up, but like kind of like forging what I had. ended up going to a prestigious college, just kind of going down this constant, just kind of just going down this path of like, you know, pursuing, like, getting good academics and, you know, just kind of going down this vague STEM engineering path until like junior year where all I was doing was massive and massive, massive tons of work. and was not really socially connected at all. And at that point, I had, like, no internships and whatnot. It just kind of broke down. And then almost failed my thesis senior year.

And I got one job at, like, an investment firm for, like, four months that I ended up, like, having to leave because of anxiety. And, yeah, it's just, things just built up until it broke. Wow. So can I think for a second? Sure. We have to play this card early today. So I guess let me just think out loud.

So I think they're kind of two general, we've got kind of a fork in the road. One is how you got to be here. And the second is what you're doing about it. Right. So like I'm hearing like different things. Like so some people have sort of, you know, dropped out, haven't really been doing a whole lot, sort of didn't cut it. Some people are sort of like scraping by, and then you've got Alchem here,

who's like decided to drop out of college and join the military. Right? And so, you know, I find myself kind of being curious about, you know, like, because you guys use like some common terms, right? You guys kind of talk about the extra stuff, like why it's hard to do the extra stuff. You guys talk about lack of work ethic or like other things. things that have sort of been responsible for, you know, your struggles now. And then you guys also talk about, you know, the caste system and sort of being treated

differently. So I think those are all sort of things we can dig into. I wonder a little bit about, you know, you guys talk about lacking motivation and some of these other things. But I wonder a little bit about whether that's actually like a misty. diagnosis and sort of digging into what it is that like really holds you back. So if you think about applying for an internship, like literally what is the problem that you run into. So those are all kinds of directions. And like I said, we can sort of talk a little bit about what it's like to be where you are now and how you guys made the decisions that you did. Yeah. So I mean, is there anything that actually, so maybe this is a good way. So is there anything about anything else? Did you

anything from any of your colleagues that you guys are kind of curious about? Yeah, actually. The military thing stood out. Like, it's just a very big life change and it's something that's like very scary and something I would never, probably never considered doing. So I'm curious about what made you decide to do that, Alcum. Yeah. So one of the things, like another like driving factor in me, like a lot of the anxiety I feel

with like going to college is, I feel like, I feel like, going to college is I feel like, Like I feel like in the non-stem fields, there's like a real lack of like a defined path on like how to get to like an established career. Like if you do like art, drawing, video editing, those can all be hard fields to get into because you have to go through like independent people. Like independent firms and things like that. And it's a very like rigorous thing you like place upon yourself. Like for like you do have to do like a lot of freelance for like journalism and for drawing and for video editing. And then even in the STEM fields as well, I feel like there's a large over saturation. And so one of the driving forces for me is like financial stability.

And I live in the U.S. And I mean, we put a lot of money into our military. And, you know, whether or not that's a good or bad thing is kind of political. But like at the end of the day, that would get me, you know, established as like having a career and like kind of starting off in a way that like college really doesn't give. me that level of like financial security. And I'm doing like academic things as I go into the Navy. Like I'm doing like a nuclear program. And so I like I, one of the things like I hope that like I work, I know that I work well

with like a like a very like regimented schedule, which is something that like military academics is like notorious for describing to its students. So I know I can like function well in that type of environment. And it is like a lot of hard STEM, which is like. something that I am good at, like just naturally. So it should come easier than if I was doing like psychology major or something like that. But it's at the end of the day, it really is just kind of like a deal of like financial security. It's available and it seems like a good career path for me. A good way for me to get like established as like, you know, in my life. I think that makes

you the bravest out of all of us here because the rest of us are like either we're failing or just crawling by and you managed like you mentioned before in one of our earlier conversations that your parents were not really on board with you joining the military so yeah I guess I commend you for having the courage to make that move thank you yeah that's I mean it's a lot of it's like stressful I guess but it's at the end of the day like it gives me a lot of like like I so one of the things is like I've never been like diagnosed with anything but I've always struggled with like anxiety like social anxiety performance anxiety like existential dread about like the future and things like that and so like the military just like having like that thing where

it's like oh yeah you go in and like after i get through basic training like i'm kind of set like i'm just kind of like i'm just in there and i'm good to go for like the next eight years of my life i'll have my medical my dental and like everything covered and that like the amount of like weight that that takes off of my chest, like, like, I can't even, like, speak to how amazing that is to me. I can really relate to that, like, wanting, like, a step-by-step sort of program that at the end will give you security for sure. I can, yeah, I think that's really good. One of the things, sorry. No, go forward.

Yeah. One of the things that stood out, and this is just kind of, like, I think it was, I want to say it was soul that said it, but it was like, or I think we all kind of like talked on it, but like scraping by and like doing the bare minimum, I didn't really like put words to that, but that's certainly like a feeling that like resonates really well with me of like I feel like through all like all of my academics. It's always just been like a like a very like it's not so much that I never had to try. It's just that like I only tried to the point that it was like beneficial to my grades or the things that I could put like a quantitative value on where I could be like, okay. I sit down, I do my homework for an hour, I get like six study sheets done. You know, that does X amounts of my grade. That gives me, you know, so much available, like so much, like, points towards, like, the end of my year total. Like, if I need, like, a thousand points for a semester, then that gives me, like,

a hundred points. Like, it's very easy for me to, like, compartmentalize that and be like, like, okay, this is how I do it. And that's, like, not being able to do that with, like, college, like, for, like, a career goal. That's what scares me. but like I think there are like other examples of like all of us growing up just kind of doing the bare minimum of like that's just kind of how we were raised to some extent yeah so let me ask let me ask y'all are you guys envious of alchem um I'm I'm happy for him that he's found

something that he feels comfortable doing and he's been able to make a decision because I haven't found that so I'm not envious that um like he's going to military, but I'm, I really admire and maybe in some aspects I'm jealous of being able to just make a huge, like, decision like that and go through with it. I feel like in my world or in my mind, the university is just like a fact of reality. Like I have to go through university and I have to find a job at the end of it with my degree or like, like what else is there in life almost? It feels like that powerful to me as a construct. would you all say, Seth Jacob? What do you all think? I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't say, I mean, for me, university wasn't that.

So for me, a lot of it was actually tried to, like, escape the ruts of the university paradigm because it was like, my school is just very much trying to, it, like, made everything. competitive, like even the social scene was, like, prestige-oriented, which was, yeah, so it's, like, maybe at some point I was, but it's like, maybe, like, in high school I was, but it's, like, through college is kind of, like, the solution to that.

Okay. What were you saying, said? Not, I'm not envious of Elgin, in the sense that I resent him, but, uh, but, but, I guess hearing about how, well, I'm not envious in the sense that I resent him, but I look back on myself and I think, God damn it said, what happened to you? And when you say what happened to you, what are you, what ballpark are you pointing that question in? Having, taking steps towards some semblance of a career, being able to do, have some kind of of employable skill. Like I have, I have like a mixed bag, but they're all sort of, like, I obtained

them just by chance. I stumbled into whatever internships that would take me, and they're all, like, a mixed bag of niche things that don't really fit together, whereas Alchem seems to have taken, like, a, like a direct step that will, you know, put some, it'll add some direction into, into his future. I've just been, like, sitting around here, not doing much. So I see that you guys are steering clear basically of the word envious, but y'all are happy to use words like admire. It has this negative connotation to it. It does have a negative connotation. Right? And so I think it's interesting because like what's the difference between admiration and envy? Um, well, like you use the word yourself, right? It's if you resent the other person for their ability as

well. And you don't like, yeah. Interesting. So you guys are, you're saying that envy is coupled with resentment? I think so. That's how I envision it. Okay. So I don't envy Alciman that way I admire him. Okay. So, um, and would you guys sort of, I thought Said did a pretty good job of like voicing what he admires about Alcum. Would you guys agree with that sentiment that like basically Alchem is like he's like taking a step forward in a definitive way yeah absolutely okay so if we're kind of saying I want to be able to do that too let's try to understand what how what motivates alcom to take this step forward yeah how did you like start making the decision I guess I mean I mean if I'm keeping it a buck it was the the financial insecurity like um

Like one of the things is I have like a bit of a rocky relationship with my parents. And so I was moved out for a bit and dealing with my own finances when you don't have a college degree or like any real like superseding skills to merit. The only thing you can really go into is the service industry and that shit will like work you dry and like you'll come home at the end of your days tired and beaten. And it's sometimes like 60 hour work weeks. And I was doing that on top of like going. to my community college, La Mello community college. And like, that shit's brutal. Pardon my French, but that is brutal stuff to go through.

And like, I kind of was coming towards the end of this year. And I was just like, I can't do this. Like, whatever this is, like, it's not worth it for me. And so I was desperate to find something. And I, like, in the school that I went to, like my high school, there was always a strong presence of, like, military recruitment. and I had like never seriously considered in the past but I had like a few of my friends had gone into it and I know some people some guys in my guys friends of mine who have been like really happy with it

and so that was just like it was kind of like there and available and I you know sat down with my recruiter and I talked to him about it and I'm happy with the decision and a lot of other like the other people in my life were pretty happy for me and so I just kind of said you know, we ball and did it. So what did you guys hear motivated Alcom? Desperation. Yep. Yeah.

That's, yeah. So it's interesting, right? Because we think about motivation is a good thing. Like, we think about it as a positive quality. Like, we strive for motivation. But what Alchem is telling us is that his motivation is born of desperation. And what we're sort of hearing is almost like, a bottom of the barrel kind of story where like he like he hit rock bottom like there's just there's

nowhere else to go but down and it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of chance to go up and oddly enough I think that there's there's a lot about alchem that I think I can sort of personally relate to as a gifted kid who struggled I mean I think out of all the groups that we've sort of talked about I think you know I identify with you all the most and I think there's a certain desperation to it. I think there are also like elements of like seeding control, right? So Alcum, like you guys don't trust yourselves because you're not going to do any more than the bare minimum.

And so like all Alcum has to do is like sign up and then there's no takebacks. Right? He frees himself of his mind because it doesn't matter whether he wants to or feels like it or whatever because they're going to, they're not going to give him a choice. and so he's like sort of seeding control of his life and then like relying on them to provide as he said he responds well to regimented structure which i imagine actually all of you all of y'all will that if if there's a situation that's challenging and regimented and doesn't give you guys a choice then y'all will actually do really well i think though it's kind of interesting because um you know i'm kind of curious about ego Alcom, do you think that your ego has anything to do with your decision? Could you elaborate a bit more in what you, like, I mean, I don't know, could you, could you like ask the question a different way? I'm kind of confused by it.

Absolutely. How do you feel about yourself joining the military? I mean, I'm happy with the decision. I think it's a good decision. Yeah, like growing up, I've always had. I feel like the reason I always did well in school is because like it wasn't a choice. It was like, you know, you wake up like, you know, and your mom is like, all right, get in the car. Or, you know, it's like, hey, the school bus is here or like your dad takes you or whatever the situation is.

And you go and you sit, you can't really like leave. Right. And your teachers are your authority figures. They tell you what to do. And you just kind of, you got the regimented schedule. And it, I mean, it feels really good that like it's. kind of like obviously it's not like super self-imposed but the fact that it's like it's a decision that I'm making but I also know that like once I kind of like what's you like what

you said once I signed that we know whether or not I want to do it I'm in I'm in for however many years I sign up for right um like at that point that's pretty like it feels great yeah so let me ask the question a different way how do you feel telling other people that you're joining the military kind of weird uh I So, I mean, the military is, is like a really good opportunity for me, but it's like out of, it's kind of out of pocket for me. It's not something that I would like ever really consider doing. It was kind of something like it was born out of desperation and it's not really like within myself to do it. Like I wouldn't like just, I had the choice between like going to college.

Like if you had asked me three years ago, I would have never said I was going to the military. That would have been like the bottom of the list. so I'm kind of apprehensive about it about like the way I tell people about it and how do people usually respond they're normally like oh wow that's a great decision you know that'll be great for you and all of that stuff so what did you all notice about everyone shared their story

and how did who did we gravitate towards the one who'd made a decision or who'd done something Right. So when Alchem shares what he's done, what has he met with? Praise. Praise. Admiration. And so let's just think a little bit about, you know, before the decision outcome. So where was he? Before he decided to join the military, where was he? Very low spot. Right. So failed out of college, sounds like, or dropped out or something? Yeah. And so I think because I sort of saw pieces of this in myself. I don't think joining the military is a bad idea, by the way, just for the record.

But I want us to understand a little bit about why we make decisions and what drives us. So like Alchem gives us a very logical reason. The first reason he gave us was super logical. It's for financial security. It makes sense. Like if he's anxious about his financial security and whatnot, like it's a good reason. we dig a little bit further and we get to desperation, right? That like even though he sort of talks about financial insecurity,

that like he's living this life and he wakes up one day and he's like, I can't live this life anymore. I have to live a different one. And I think oddly enough, what you guys maybe admire about him, and here I could be projecting, but I almost remember like I used to wish for catastrophe. I used to wish for being,

tested. You know, I wanted to like just like what I, what I was what I hated more than anything else was like limbo and like not needing to scrape by. Like I would have been fine if you had said I'm going to drop you into an arena and you have to fight a lion to the death and I'm going to give you a club. I would have been like, hell yeah, let's go baby. Right? Give me death or give me glory? Like I just can't stay stuck in between anymore. You guys feel that way? Oh, yes. Tell me about that.

Jacob? Oh, there's so many. So the joke, like the weird thing I tell my friends honestly, I'd feel better when I'm sick. I'd actually be more productive when I got sick. Because, like, expectations would drop it. It's just like, oh, what can I get done while I'm feeling crummy? And I actually get more done.

But, like, there's so many, there's, like, so many dimensions of, like, Like, my anxiety dropped when COVID happened. I felt better and, like, more eager to be productive when COVID occurred. Let's see, what else? My mom recently got diagnosed with cancer, and that wasn't great. But it's, like, it wasn't, like, crushing. it was like, I think for like the week around that, I was like a little bit more productive. Like, it's very bizarre.

So that's something that y'all can relate to? Maybe earlier. I think I tried taking advantage of the fact that I would act under, under, if I had no other choice. And I tried saying, okay, if I sign myself for all these other things, then, which will all be catastrophes if they fail. then I'll do them, but then I didn't. And then the catastrophe happened and I survived and I realized that. I guess there is no way out. Maybe that's just.

Yeah. So like you guys see what y'all are doing is that you're not, it's actually brilliant and sad. So like what said is doing is he's, he recognizes that he can't motivate himself. Right. So he like recruits the outside world to put deadlines on to him. And the same thing that Alcups doing. it's like I'm gonna I can't control myself so I'm gonna create a situation in which there's artificial desperation and I'll be forced to act and then said really get screwed

because he doesn't act and then you know what the really damning thing is about not acting is that he survives see if he had really been punished then he would act the next time does that make sense like the real damning thing is that like the consequences weren't bad enough. Because if the consequences were bad, then if he did it again, then he would act. You all see that? Does that make sense? Yeah. So, yeah, that's really what I'm interested in is I feel like anyone, if they're in a life

or death situation, gravitates towards life or if they're in a catastrophic situation, they do anything they can to get out of it. But if you're not in that place, how do you go towards, ambition or like success, yeah, I don't understand how people have the energy for that kind of motivation and not like just avoiding death. So tell us what it's like to not have energy, right? The extra stuff. I don't watch revenge. Go ahead. Okay. I, um, I um, well, it doesn't feel great. It's like the days just kind of slip by. You do your work and then, I don't know, you play some games.

And then, like, yeah, the time just gets filled with things that are not really valuable to you, but then you don't even know what the things that are valuable. You don't know what is valuable to you. So you just kind of, yeah, time just slips by. That's the best way I can describe it. It feels kind of like, like, monotonous, or monotonously, monotonously flipping pages. Like, you're just kind of like going from one day to the next. like when I was going through this last thing I was also working a lot and it was just like this kind of like day in day out wake up do school go to work just like kind of like this dread and like whenever I had free time I was like like you know I was doing like partying or like doing drugs or like something to fill the time and it was just like I don't know I was like hellish I could like feel myself kind of almost like

the Kang, but it felt like I couldn't do anything about it. Like, I couldn't take the first step. It's just like gray and dystopian. But seriously, like it is, right? No, yeah, absolutely. No, no, I'm like, what I'm really appreciating is that we're talking about this with a bunch of fucking gifted kids, so the number of syllables per word is so high. Monotonously and dystopian.

it's just it's rough out there for us yeah we all just going through it said did you want to say something oh um so you ever watch revenge of the scyth where anacin's anikin's just burning up and obiwan screams at him for failing in his duties to be the chosen one it's like every day uh it's like i have two choices it's either it's either that or i numb myself and there's and there's no option to and like the option to actually do something is blocked by like a version of me that that says well we're not going to do that what are you going to do about that said and yeah so it's either numb myself or scream at myself and nothing happens either way good you want to say something beat um i i don't know i i feel like uh uh any anything that i would say would be kind of like really overshadowed by

the kind of problems that I've heard, I guess. It doesn't really feel relevant. Say it anyway. What do you... It's just like basically echoing what they're saying at like to a lesser extent of...

So like when I got out of... When I like lost my scholarship and I'm like just basically at home doing nothing for like a year and a half, It's been, like, awesome. I haven't had to do anything, right? And just being able to coast and play games all day and, you know,

maybe, you know, look for a job sometimes or do something just to keep fast. Yeah. Like, there's no, there's no responsibility that I have to take care of. And it's kind of, like, scary that that feels good. So I have a question for Ced and the rest of all. Who are you? Ced says, I know who I am. Right?

And it's either a scream at myself or be myself. So who are you? I wonder if that's a trick question because who am I is a question. I've been asking myself every day for the past 19 years of my life. And it's evolved a lot. But, like, at this point, I kind of separate myself from the idea of, like, self or identity. Like, I separate identity and what I consider to be the existence of me, if that makes any sense. Does it make sense to people?

Yeah. Well, I guess... Not really. Not to me. There's, like, two different kinds of identities, I think. There's one that you ascribe yourself and then one that other people ascribe you. It just depends which one you care about more. It would be more of who you are.

I don't know. So not to get overly philosophical, but the way that I see, like, there's, like, some, like, inner me that is just, like, experiences and feelings. And then there's, like, an outer me that is, like, actually can think and speak and form thoughts and has values, beliefs, ideas, like, ascribed onto it.

And I want to be like more, I want to like dissolve all the parts that are identity and just be like okay existing. Because I feel like identity puts a lot of pressure on you to, well, to be certain things. And if you're not those things, then who are you? So like if you place all of your value of self-worth or who you are on your identity, then when your identity is challenging. you are challenged. So, Sol, what is, what is, what is, what is, we'll get there.

So who here resonates with what Sol is saying? Like, who here is like, sort of or like, I'm not really too sure or like, yeah, man. Yeah. I, I didn't get it the first, but the second time, I kind of, like, I kind of get it. For me, I, the word I used to describe it as like a mantle. it's like this ideal self that like I would love to live into that I would love to be but like and not even like in like like overly high standard sometimes sometimes it's just like a pretty low bar and it's sometimes it's just hard for me to like live into that like it's hard

for me to reach there and it feels kind of like defeating and so I'd certainly get the feeling of like kind of just wanting to be like detached from that or like get rid of it, just kind of like cast it aside because I often feel like when I don't live into it, I'm disappointed with myself. Yeah, and the hard thing about the mantle, I really love that you tossed in that detail, Alchem, is that oftentimes you expect so little from yourself. And that's what's so crushing when you can't even do that. Yeah. Right. It's like one thing to be perfect, but it's like another thing to like, okay, let me just like work on my resume for like 50s.

15 minutes today. And you can't even do that. Yeah. Cushing. So I'm going to ask, said, but once again, anyone can kind of jump in. I appreciate when people do.

So, Ced, when you say that either you're screaming at yourself or you're being yourself, like, what are, like, who is that cell? Like, what are, who are you? Tell us about who you are and how you view yourself.

I guess I see myself as, so like I had a good shot at, I guess, I suppose I have a vision of myself that would get things right, you know, like who would have gotten the right internship or who would have actually put more effort into those responsibilities or would have prevented the catastrophe. And then there's, but then who I am is the person who failed to do all of that. So sometimes, sometimes I feel like I'm just a guy who had a shot and threw it away and now I've just missed the boat. and I'm like stranded here in limbo. Does anybody resonate with that feeling?

B, can you tell us like what your experience of that is like or what you think about yourself or what thoughts you have about yourself? Sure. So I guess in terms of like missing the shot, right? I had like this, you know, full, like full ride of, you know, I can pretty much get through all of. college or at least four years and have no debt and you know that's what everyone wants right so I have this this you know ability to do this and um you know I sleep in for a test that's worth

30% of my grade I just don't do any work in a class that I don't think matters but then when those two things add together the you know just lose my whole scholarship right so it's like I still have this ego of oh I know I can do it but I didn't and this like doesn't match up of I don't know I missed I missed my shot I guess yeah yeah so let's talk about that ego for a second like I know I can do it what do you guys think are you guys capable or not depends on Jacob, you want to go? I mean, it depends on the task. And personally, also depends whether I can zone into it. Like in college and high school, like everything was like kind of, like, if I can get into a flow state and like focus on it, I could get it done. And if I couldn't, it was just like pulling teeth.

And like, like, as I. got out of culture did more and more stuff the proportion of things that were pulling teeth increased um and so it's like you know like i i mean i'm not certain if i could hold down like a full-time job right now or like i feel like you know like certain problems i like very could like i feel like there's very like there's a subset of things that i could do very well and it's just like but like a general holistic life probably not so how does it feel to say that jacob to say those words out loud uh i mean i've been coming to terms with it for like the last few months so it's not it's not like a huge shock at the moment but although it's been relieving

coming to terms with that so what is it what do you guys think that jacob is coming to terms with his idea that he's in some sense short of his ideal self and that's who he is now what would you say jacob how how accurate is that um i mean the way i describe it with people is that like like the entire time like it's like you're preparing for a war like i've been making like a job like working really hard to make like a giant like battleship turret that i get to the end and then they're like, all right, are you ready to mount it on your battleship? It's like, no, I don't. It's, I just have, like, this massive gun that I have to, like, carry around with, like, a little bicycle and chain.

He's, like, there's nothing there to actually support, like, you know, going through, like, four years of college and developing, like, 8 billion technical skills and, like, philosophy of the universe. When it's just, like, you know, I can't sleep. And I, like, struggle to take care of an apartment. and like I can't network whatsoever and like I've no like the I haven't even started thinking about like at no point was like developing the navigation computer to figure out where we're actually going with this thing and it's like so yes I can send a 500 kilogram projectile very far if it's like standing still placed right in front of me but we're not doing anything useful with that thing. What I'm hearing is that Jacob has faith that he can do it

in a perfect set of circumstances. If the stars align, but his temperamental self, otherwise he feels somewhat incapable. Yeah, when you factor in like the real world and all of the problems that come with it. Yeah. Right. And I think there's a lot of like,

powerful imagery there about the sense of it slipping away, right? Because Jacob used to be decent at the flow state. And I don't know if you guys sort of felt this, but then like something happens and it becomes harder. And then each day becomes like, like you used to be okay. You used to be able to pull it off often enough. And then you see yourself slipping. Then like you can barely pull it off often enough. and then you can't really pull it off as much as you need to. And then it becomes less and less. And it's sort of like, okay, so you're, you know, I think someone used the phrase like I missed the boat, right?

So like the boat is there and you got 15 minutes to board and you're like, okay, that's no big deal. And then five minutes to board and it's like, oh God. And they're like pulling, they're like pulling the, you know, the walkway away. And like if you run right now, you can still like jump across and like get on board. And then the jump becomes longer. and then you're like, but you can still do it

and then like it starts to pull away and maybe you can jump in the water and even if you jump in the water, they'll throw you a line and you can climb on board. But like every day goes by and it's like slipping away and you're like watching it slip away.

What's that like, Sol? I see you nodding emphatically. Yeah, I definitely felt that during like early, no, last year when I was in a class and like, Yeah, the classes are always so easy at the beginning and you understand everything and you're doing the assignments. Everything is just going well and then each lecture gets a little more and more abstract and difficult for you to understand. At the end, you're like, okay, I need to like review everything, study everything, make sure I have everything right so I can actually get past the final end up and pass.

And maybe you don't even do that because you are just procrastinating or something. I feel to the question you asked earlier about whether you're capable, I want to see if other people relate to this too. I feel like I could learn to do anything if I had the energy to. The way it's modeled in my head is that I don't have the energy to do any of that or the passion, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. Yeah, I feel that. I don't know if that's exclusive to us, though. I don't know, I think the difference between or one of like the major differences between like a gifted kid or like, you know, like an average kid, I don't know, would be one is told that they're like better basically from a young age and, you know, they have this ideology that they get to keep up.

They get to say, oh, I am this, so I can push forward with it. And I think that that gets you so far, or only so far. Could I rephrase for a second? Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, so I definitely understand that, like, everyone has this problem, obviously. But what I mean in the aspect that it's particular to us is that, like, do you guys, like, doubt your intelligence or, like, your ability to, to learn things and process things quickly, because that's something that stays, like, constant to me.

And it's like the only barrier, if I could just unlock that potential by, like, giving it a boost with energy would be, like, that's like the only barrier to me is the energy thing. And, like, I have confidence in almost every other aspect of, like, being able to learn and do things. Yeah. That's kind of what I mean when I talk about, like, the battleship analogy. It's like, yes, if I could support this, I could level.

everything, but I can't support it and it sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Like I feel like I've got like the like the baseline like like like like like, like I feel like maybe I don't know maybe that's like the intuitive problem solving or like something like I've got the things that I need to like, that like if I wanted to like learn a new skill or like like try to like you know, like work on like marketing myself or like marketing, you know, X product I'm working on or whatever like I feel like I could do that but it just feels like I yeah like I don't know the energy like I don't have the passion for it like I just kind of like sit down and one of the things is like I start asking myself like why am I like why am I doing this you know like what for what reason and I get

bogged down and like this endless loop of like well you know like why is it important to me and then like I come upon like self identity like who am I why is it important to like me why is it important to like my ideal self and I just like shut down and I kind of like shut myself down before I even have the ability to like engage with like the the critical thinking skills that like that I know or at least I hope that I have for me. Do you guys kind of relate to this idea of like shutting yourself down before you even get started? Yeah. Can you guys share what that, what your experience of that is? So it starts with like an idea and you're very excited about it.

And then you think about every other idea you've had in the past and it tapering off and failing in the middle. of it or towards the end and you're like you know let's get ahead of the curve on this one and not waste all that time and by waste that time you mean try yeah yeah it's not quite the same for me but it'll be like I have like I have like several projects I've been like working on over like the few years and it's like you know it's like if I really want like one of these things to go like I have to sacrifice and it's like do I really want to like is this worth sacrificing devoting myself to and it's like and then like you know I'll get into like that mindset where it's like well previously like you know sacrificing like devoting yourself single mindly as you know led in me in very miserable dean

states and or situations where I'm like unbalanced and miserable and so it's just like I kind linger in that state of like you know kind of poking and at a bunch of different things, like, kind of keeping the dream alive, kind of. It sounded like you had something to say? Oh, I guess for me, it's like maybe it was easier earlier, but now that I've had, I guess, four or five years of seeing myself being able to do things, but just not doing them, it's like when I try something, when I think about trying something new, it's like I see the whole history of all of all my failures staring back.

at me and accusing me. So I just don't start because facing that is just too terrifying. What's terrifying about it? I guess. So there's there's the numbing path and there's the screaming path. And so I can I can keep myself kind of stable when I'm numbing myself. But then to get to face that history again, then like all the old voices that scream at me and say like, why did you fuck this up? this was so easy. That just, it's just too harsh.

I can't, I can't, like, function when, when, when it feels like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not too sure how to put it towards, but it feels like I, it feels like reality changes, and I see myself for what I am,

and what I am is, like, someone who has failed and will fail. And, like, every step of the way I'm doing things imperfectly, And a voice in my mind says, ah, yes, you see? I always right all along. We've ended this before. I know you. We've seen this. I know what you're doing.

It gets even harder because it's like, you get stuck in this numbing space. And the only thing to like, you know you have to get out of that numbing space, but the only thing waiting there is this onslaught of pain. And it's like. Hmm. So, you know, there's a part of me, like there are a lot of questions I still want to ask. But I sort of feel like if we start asking questions. questions about, you know, I really liked what B said about sort of the expectations that you grew up with and like how you were taught to expect things from yourself.

You know, what the impact of being told that you're capable and bright and talented. Like I think that's really important to talk about. But I also feel like we're sort of bizarrely kind of at the climax of the discussion right now because this is it. Right. I feel like we have found the problem. Do you guys feel that? I can't really put a name to it. Yeah.

I mean, I can't put a name to the problem, at least. But I mean, do you guys feel like this is the problem? Like, whatever we're talking about right now is the problem. Yeah. Right? So you can call it like motivation. You can call it passion. You can call it whatever.

But like there's this idea of like decaying, right? That you're like stuck in this place. and like you're like at some halfway point. And outside there's a terrible storm. And either you open the door and then like you face the storm. And then you like walk for a little while and there's no end in sight and the storm is going back. So you turn around and you kind of like you go back to your like halfway point. You know, the save zone.

Like and then you save and then you're at the end. You refill your HP and then you just hang out there because there's nothing there's nothing on the outside. And then what happens is since you all are smart, like every time you leave and you don't get anywhere, then you stop wanting to leave. Because what's the point? Like said, said, we've been here before. What did you expect, dumbass? Did you expect the hurricane to stop at some point? This is who you are.

This is what your life has become. Why bother? And then we get to beat. actually this life is pretty sweet like sure I feel like a failure as a human being but I've got my snug blanket

pretty comfortable it's all good get to stop some nobs from time to time it's not that bad so then what happens is you guys start making this halfway point your own right it's not transient for you anymore

it starts to become a home you start to decorate and turn it into your own place and then you start to feel stuck because like the longer you stay there the more comfortable it becomes and then there's like there's just something and then like now this is where you guys are

where like you wish what would happen is like some kind of dragon would show up and like knock down your temporary shelter and then you guys would have no choice you know it's like at the end of Metroid have you guys played Metroid any of the Metroids boomers now see it's fucking sad I've played tons of Metroid

Right, so at the end of Metroid they have this really cool mechanic where everything starts falling apart You have three minutes to get out Like it happens at the end of all the Metroid games You have to escape Like after you beat the last boss You have to escape in time

And like that's what you guys want You want like you know flooding Where you have no choice Where you've got to go Like you've just got to go Give me death or give me glory Absolutely Because this sort of like

Weird comfort limbo kind of place. And there's like, and every, like the, the problem is that the longer you stay, the stronger the hurricane outside becomes,

because you are the hurricane. Right? The longer you stay there, the more you beat yourself up when you try to leave. What did you expect, dumbass? And so each time you guys try, it's like,

it's terrible because like, each failure doesn't make you stronger. You know, we say that what kills you, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? You guys heard that phrase? I've heard it. I strongly disagree.

What would you say, Jacob? I'll know. It just depends on what the thing is. So I'll tell you what we say in medicine, which is quite bleak and we don't advertise this very much. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger or cripples you for life? Because that's what happens in medicine. Like when you get somewhere with a motor vehicle accident, they survived and they

have no legs. Gigi. Good job. Right? Because that's really what life is like. Like life leaves marks. Like trauma doesn't always result in triumph like we see in the movies. Sometimes what it results in is like debilitating complex PTSD in which people like suffer for years. I guess this isn't sounding very hopeful. But I think it's important to understand, you know, what you guys are facing. Because I'm going to try to trick you in a second. Because I want you guys to like, like, I think part of this problem, part of the problem here is that you guys are like thinking about potential. And I think a lot of this stuff has to do with like ego and identity in who you think you are and what you think you're capable of.

And it's like not respecting what your challenges are. It's like you guys don't respect what you're actually fighting against. You think it's easy. You think it's minimal. And therein lies the problem. because like instead of treating it like a lion, you feel like you're losing to a mouse, even though it's a lion.

And the more that you recognize that it's actually a lion and not a mouse, the funny thing is like, that's going to create your best self. Right? That's going to actually recruit like, give me death or give me glory. But the problem is that you guys don't think you're facing a lion.

Like you devalue your failures. So if you lose to some, something strong, that doesn't make you weak. But you guys think you're weak. Does that make sense? Like, it's a truth of yourself that like, and I think you guys have started to realize this. Right?

You all have sort of started to figure this out that, like, that's not really you, but that you guys have been given this mantle. Right? Like, you guys have been given this burden. You're gifted. Things should be easy for you, dumbass. And so there's something that's actually really devastating about gifted kids. kids is that they they're not allowed to make mistakes.

So if I'd say there's one thing that's holding you guys back, it's that you guys don't allow yourself to make a mistake. If you're stupid and you fail, is that okay? It depends on the failure. Okay. Fucking Jacob was five head answer. Overthinking things. Well, I mean, that that's, so like, you know, there's some things that.

But like, you know, like, I'm considering like career options and, you know, like, Some of them are, you know, more stable. Like, some of them are more creative and, you know, like, running out my finances and, like, like, getting evicted is not like, like, like, there's certain, like, I have a hard time to determine whether potential failures are worth it or not. Are you allowed to fail, Jacob? Am I allowed to fail? Very esoteric. Like, weird for champ. What do you mean by allowed to fail?

Yeah, who's judging whether we're allowed or not. I guess it's us, right? So this is the problem. I'm asking a yes or no question. And what are you guys answering with? I don't know. Open response. Open response, yeah.

I'm not allowed to fail too badly. Okay. Right? So I think the first thing that you guys need to let yourselves do is, fail. But you don't, like, you guys can't even fucking for all your five-headedness. You guys can't even comprehend

the question. Like, what does that mean? Like, do you guys see how foreign the concept is to you? Well, I understand the question. I just have a hard time answering it because if I'm asked, are you allowed to fail? I guess I would be like

like, like if I made a mistake or if I failed, I would be like, oh, dumb ass, don't do it again. And then I actually move on pretty quickly after that. So I'm not sure that I'm similar to everyone in that regard. Okay. So what I'm hearing from Seoul is yes.

I feel like I know that I can fail, but I still always, they just, like what said, like it goes back. It's like it goes into the repertoire of like the however many years of shit that like looks back at you and screams. Yep. Like, I can't. but it'll come back and harm me. No, no, no. But see, that's the thing is you're not allowing yourself to fail.

So, like, understand this. So the first thing is that stock answer, but generally speaking, what holds you back in life is you. Right? Like, that's just how it works, generally speaking. And so what is it about you that's holding yourself back? And you guys have done a beautiful job of, like, describing it, right? it's like the way that you punish yourself and the way that you view yourself,

you make a mistake. And then you yell at yourself for that. And then you start to believe that you're someone who makes mistakes. You are a fuck up. You are a dumbass. You're incapable. You're not going to be able to do it.

Why bother? And now suddenly, like, you know, you just don't realize who you are. And like, you're playing the game with a different character. And if you're playing the game with like a different character, like the character who has like two scales, he has two skills.

Instead of like succeed or fail, he has fail or fail harder. It's like you can hit button one and you can fail or you can hit button two and fail harder. And like that's the game you guys are playing. And then the more you play that character, the more you level up your two skills, which are fail and fail harder. And that's the voice.

Right? You're leveling up that skill. like you beat yourself up even more. And then you tell yourself, like, why bother? You're a failure. Like, you're not able to do it. See? I told you so.

And so, like, you guys are operating under the belief. And I don't blame you for this. It's just like, let's understand. And I'm going to zero in on sad because I think he's used like really good language to describe this, which is like he's got two choices, either fail or yell at himself. And so what I'm hearing from you guys is that you guys aren't a lot. allowed to fail. And there's a damn good reason that you guys have been conditioned. Like, I don't think it's a coincidence that all of you guys don't allow yourself to fail. And I think,

like, maybe Alcom is letting himself do that a little bit. And I think Jacob's sort of getting there. But generally speaking, I think that there's, there's like a reason why this is a common pattern. I think it goes back to, like, what your expectations were. Because early on, you weren't allowed to fail. And so you didn't understand what failing looked or felt like. right so like if I'm feeding my three-year-old and she like dropped something on the floor that's something she's allowed to do like she's allowed to make mistakes and it's like acceptable but I think the challenge is that you guys were given I love this this phrase that Alcom said you guys were given a mantle right here we have B graduated one year early from an aerospace academy why don't even understand what the fuck what is that you didn't even heard of that it's just like a like a specialized academy sure i mean first of all

they call it an academy right it's not a school i haven't gone to a school that's not an academy but case in point right so what kind of expectations does B put him on on itself

when he's like i haven't gone to a school that isn't i haven't gone to a school that isn't an academy right and like i don't blame be for that, but like just think about what that does to the psychology of a child. Like, I'm not going to send my son to a fucking school

that's not an academy with the plebs. Y'all are different. Y'all are gifted. Failure's not an option. Gigi. Too hot to handle for said. F.

F. Felt too targeted. Maybe he felt shame because he went to a school instead of an academy. So said bro? Yeah, welcome back. Yeah, loading that couple. Right, so like I think it starts with with sort of this idea that you guys aren't allowed to fail.

And then what happens is you guys kind of get into the cycle, which is like every failure adds to the voice that screams at you. But like, do you guys see how like that voice can only scream at you if you're to blame or the out. wasn't acceptable. Does that make sense or did I lose you guys there? I don't know how to explain this. But like, if you're allowed to fail, there's no reason for the voice to yell at you. Because it's an acceptable outcome.

Yeah. Can somebody? Yeah. Go ahead. I was going to say, just like, because when you ask the question, like, are you allowed to fail? Who's judging whether you're allowed or not?

And if it's you, then you just have to, you have to be okay with that. Yeah, so I'll ask you guys. So like, let's assume for a moment it's you. And we'll, it's always you, by the way. But we'll get to, you know, even like the identity that you show other people, like that's still you doing the judgment.

It's that you're putting on the mask of other people before you judge yourself. Right? Yeah. It's weird. It's always you doing the judging. I mean, sometimes you guys may have grown up with people like, and I mean, sort of untrue too, because you guys did grow up with people. people judging you.

And then that's how you learn how to judge yourself, but like you perceive it as being them, but it's not really them. It's you. It was them at some point, but now it's not. Right? So like if we think about social anxiety,

you think other people are going to judge you that way, but other people are too busy thinking about the way you're judging them. They're not actually judging you. But you put yourself, you put on their mask when you judge yourself. So now I'll ask you. So like Whose judgment are you guys really facing?

Like think about your own life And like your experience of the day to day Mine And what do you say about yourself? What do you think about yourself? And not always the best things Sometimes I'm addicted to myself I feel like I deserve it

That too Doing enough Right And so you guys wonder why you're stuck So like, you know, the quickest way to get rid of motivation is to explain to people that they don't deserve something because then they'll stop asking for it. If you don't think that something is actually a possibility for you, you're not going to try it because you're smart. And I think that like when we kind of talk about passion and motivation and energy, so I think these are all umbrella terms. It's like what I need is like I would be, I just need that magic bowl.

bullet. But like there aren't magic bullets. Like human beings are complicated. Right? So you guys are like, like I need more motivation. I can't find motivation. Whereas it's like I don't, I, and soul, you may be a little bit different. But, but I think for the most part, what I want you guys to really understand is that like, it's your own judgment that creates the hurricane that keeps you trapped where you are. And that, that hurricane, like you taught, you were conditioned to judge yourself that way. So it's not, in a sense, it's not your fault. It's just like other people placed this mantle upon you.

And then you've like learned how to like put it on every day. And then what happens is like there. So this is the real challenge is that if you're, if you're stupid, you're allowed to fail and you can get up tomorrow and you can try. Right? If you like, I played a game of Dota recently like against a pro gamer.

Like a good pro gamer. And boy did I get. I mean, I got crushed. It was like laughable. And then after I was done, I was like, let's play again. Right? Because give me glory or give me death. Like, that's cool, man.

Like, all, and this is the thing is, like, this is what I think is really awesome about, like, our community and the way that we get misjudged by the world is, like, they look at us and they think we're pathetic. And we look at ourselves and we think we're pathetic. But I don't think we're pathetic at all. I think we're actually awesome. Like, we're going to be wrecking shitties real soon here. Right. and and like what the thing is but but if I if I have expectations that I like I am amazing and then I like lose a game like then it's so much more devastating right I can't pick myself up off the mat and that's what you guys can't do like as the boat like gets inches further and further away from the dock like you can't pick yourself up off the mat does that make sense like you can't queue up again it's like each time you fail, it doesn't help you grow.

It like cripples you further. You all with me? Yeah. Yes. And so then the question is like, why is that? And I think it all has to do with this expectation of what you're capable of. Because if you flip it on its head, like let's say you flip it and you say that all of you guys are, you know, suck at life. And you start with that.

And the funny thing is Jacob is like slowly working his way there, right? It's like relieving. It's relieving when you start, begin to realize that success in life is not based on one stat. That you guys have all these other stats. And actually, despite having one stat, and you guys sort of understand this intellectually, but I don't think you feel it when you get up on a day-to-day basis, is that like you guys were given a stat that was so high that you didn't have to develop these other things. then you blame yourself for not being able to succeed when it depends on more than intellect.

And I think our society in general overvalues intellect, because intellect in and of itself is an umbrella term. We call kids smart even if they're hardworking. It's like what we say about people, right? Like, oh, you're smart. Things should be easy for you. And then if you start to stumble, what is wrong with you, dumbass? Things should be easy for you.

And it's that part that keeps you guys stuck. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just have not figured. Like, I get that consciously, but it's like subliminally it still happens even if I'm consciously telling myself that. Absolutely.

Like, I've been kind of like clear up my house and like make it better. And then like two days ago, like my drain got clogged and like the grinder got like shorted. And it's like, like not even my fault, but it's like I was still out for like. the day just emotionally. Yeah. Right? So now you guys have a couple of problems, which is that y'all have been sitting at this like halfway point for so long that

y'all have become deconditioned. You've rusted. Right? So I want you guys to start thinking of yourselves in a bizarre way is like way worse than what you think of yourself. Like, I know that sounds weird. I know it sounds weird. So let me explain.

So you guys think your way up here. And then you beat yourself up for being. over here. And so you kind of think of yourself in like kind of a negative way, right? But at the end of the day, like all of this is built upon the premise that you're up here. You guys get that?

You can't be a disappointment without a high expectation of yourself. And so what I want you go, huh? Is it true? W. Oh, yeah, not true. I'm a boomer. Sorry. So what I want you guys to do is start like lowering

your expectations. Right? And I know it sounds kind of weird, but like I think in general, like I'm a big fan if you guys have watched a stream before of like letting go of expectations. And so like really meet yourself

where you're at, right? And like understand that like some of y'all are going to be like, y'all are all like, so the big, so here's the biggest scam of being a gifted kid. You know, so you guys, you guys familiar with like League of Legends and Dota?

Oh, yes. Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah. So let me ask you guys something. gifted kid. What position are they in League of Legends? Midlainer? Incorrect. Incorrect.

Y'all are all 80s. You come online late. Disrespectful. And this is the big thing, right? Is we all assume that we should come online fast and early is gifted and talented kids. Hell, B skipped a grade. Right? So we think that like we're like up. front powerhouses and it should be easy for us. And it's not untrue. But in my experience, you guys come online late. And when you hit the ground running, like, it's going to be like a

sight to see. And you will be all of the things that you think you are. But in order to get there, you have to start by not being any of those things. You guys don't understand that like, y'all are actually playing a handicapped class. It's not a gifted class. You all are fucking handicapped. And that's why one of my teachers told me like a special needs. I mean, a gifted child is a special needs child. And I was like, what are you talking about? And she like sat down and explained to me, blew my mind that y'all literally have needs that are different from other people. Right. Like you guys have challenges that are different from other people. And sure, a lot of this is shared and stuff like that. But I genuinely do think like y'all's needs and the way

that you need to be challenged and stuff like that. And that's why like the only source of like success for gifted people is usually desperation. Because that creates the environment that is necessary for you to thrive. But if you just stop and think about that, like, that's one hell of a handicap, right? It's like one hell of a way to min-max your character.

My motivation is going to be purely dependent on my circumstances and whether I'm waiting tables and failing out of college. It's like some hyper-specialized character that has like plus 1,000% damage and resistance towards one enemy type and does zero damage and has vulnerability to

all the others. That's what you guys are playing. And we can hear it from you, right? We heard it from Jacob. He's like, if all the stars align, I can one shot this shitty. But otherwise, I'm going to get wrecked. Bros, you guys aren't gifted y'all are handicapped. Wonderful.

And honestly, that was my big realization. It was like, I'm not gifted. I'm dumb. and then you're playing a completely different game. It becomes way more fun. Because then, like, you don't beat yourself up for your failures. It's like, if you guys play Dark Souls? Yeah.

Okay, not must be. You guys know what a deprived is? Sorry, Darksles. I can deduce. Right, so, like, there are different characters you can be in Dark Souls. Like, you can be, like, a knight of, like, armor and a sword. And you can be, like, a mage and have, like, like a staff and stuff, right?

Like pretty straightforward. Then you could be deprived, which is a dude with like tidy whiteies and a club. Just like a naked dude with a club. Like that's the way we're going to play this game. So my first run of Dark Souls, I was like, I'm going to try to be as powerful as possible.

And then I did terribly. Second time I played, I was like, I'm going to play a deprive because fuck yeah. Give me a club. Give me a pair of undies and let's go, bitches. And so what I'm not hearing from you guys is let's go, bitches.

Right? Like when you, when you think about like applying to a job or working, on your resume or anything like that. It's like, oh, my God, you have to succeed. Like, oh, my God, you suck. Oh, my God. You should be able to do this better.

Why do you suck so hard? You're so smart. I hear all that stuff. What I don't hear is like, let's go, bitches. Let's see what we can do. Right? And like, if you guys start to like say that about yourself, think that about yourself, like start to get to know who you really are

because I think you guys are also stumbling on this idea that, like, this person that I think I am is, like, not who I am. This person that, like, society is constructed for me is, like, not who I am. So who are you? Like, you don't know yet. So, like, try to learn. I feel like I've talked the most that I have during any of these group interviews. So I'm going to pause for a second and check in with you guys.

I have a question. Yeah. So, generally, if I'm getting this right like our problem is that our or one of our problems is that like we're setting our expectations too high and they should be lowered because we're not, we think we're up here

but we're actually down here or something like that. How do we how do we know where to lower our expectations to? How can we possibly be objective about where they should land? You don't need to be objective. Do we just start at rock bottom? Or not like rock bottom? Sure.

As low as you can go. Okay. Also, I thought earlier you were saying that like with the analogy of fighting a mouse or like we think we're fighting a mouse but it's actually a lion I thought you were going to go down the route of like we'll raise the raise the level of your problem like say that it's or realize that it's a bigger problem

than it actually is. Fucking you and your five heads. A result is the same, right? Whether I transform a mouse into a lion or I turn myself into a hobbit, like the result is the same. Right, right. but one, I have to like, I have to ruin my ego.

And that's really hard. Yeah. So that's the other thing, which is holding you guys back. Like, I don't buy for a second that Alcum, part of the reason he's joining the military is because he gets to be the person that he always wanted to be. There is no way that you guys being as five head as y'all are, on some subconscious level, Alcum realizes that when he mentions military, everyone is going to admire him. I'm not saying it's a bad decision. I'm not saying that it isn't genuine. But I think that, like, there's a reason why he's joining the military after failing out of college instead of before.

Right? And I'm not saying, I really do. I'm not trying to. No, yeah, absolutely. You're on the money on that one, I think. Yep. It's fucking ego. Because I know, because I felt this, like, I see myself in all of you to begin with, but especially in Algo.

That's why I went to India. And I was like, I'm going to become a monk. Because then I'll be better in all, all you nobs. So rather than be stupid. even though I've told I was smart and I skipped a grade. I remember like walking into my first grade class. In first grade, I walked into the classroom on the first day. And then the teacher gave us a worksheet and I did it in five minutes.

I handed it to her and I was like, can I have the next one? And then she gave me the next one. I did that one in five minutes. And then she gave me like the one from like two months from now. And I did that one. And then she gave me the next one and the next one. And I was like, oh. And then they moved me to the second grade.

And like back then I didn't have an ego. But like, sure, like, as I grew up, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm smarter than everyone else. And so I know what it's like to not live up to the expectations that you set for yourself and choose an alternate path that gives you a sense of self-worth. I think it's good. I think you should do it, bro. It sounds like a good decision. And I think you'll, you know, we're not trying to.

But I think all of you guys have to wrestle with ego, with identity. And they're weird versions of it. Right? Like, said, your ego is kind of warped, but like you still think very strongly about who you are. And that needs to be done away with. Because you aren't who you think you are. So how do I begin to do that? Good question. One that I don't know if I have an answer for. So what I've gotten so far, like if I'm putting this into like coding, it's like like, um, If expectation too high, lower expectation forehead. Yes. That's the maneuver.

Or if expectation, like so like B sort of pointed out, there are two sides of the equation, right? There's the way that you rate yourself and there's the way that you rate your problem. And you can either respect. So this is where like, I love that you guys said, like, I can't even do the most basic thing. And so then what you conclude. is if I can't do the most basic thing, I must be really dumb. But which all need to understand

is that most basic thing is the most difficult thing. That's not a level one problem. That's a level 99 problem. And there are reasons for that, the simplest of which is that you begin to realize that actually the big and desperate things are easy to do. It's the little things that are hard to do.

It's the things that are irrelevant that are the most difficult to do. It's easy to eat when you're hungry. It's hard to eat. when you're hungry, when you're not hungry. It's easy to go to the bathroom when you need to pee. It's harder to go to the bathroom when you need to pee. It's easier to help someone when they need your help.

It's harder to help someone when they don't. Right? So desperation is, I get that you guys long for it, but like what you all need to understand is that each of these little battles that you guys are choosing to fight are actually not easy battles. They're very hard. Like, if you just think about it logically, like the fewer reasons there are to do something,

the harder it is to do them. And you guys have created, like, let's take B, for example, like he doesn't have a reason to leave the comfort of his home. And so leaving the comfort of his home isn't easy. It's incredibly hard. So you need to respect the problems that you guys face instead of disrespecting them and thereby, like, shaming yourself, if that sort of makes sense. Yeah.

So how do I tell the difference between me, you know, setting my expectations lower in a healthy way and me saying well I guess this is a really hard problem let's run away and play video games for a week so how do I differentiate between lowering my expectations in a healthy way and just using it as a way to ignore the problem and also I think like self-deprecating can kind of come eat like if you like if you're thinking about like lowering yourself like it's it's I mean like I'm like I can be pretty dumber sometimes like pretty like down to the dumps and So I think it's easier for me to like sometimes just be like, I suck. But like my ego doesn't really change.

I don't really lower the bar. I'm just kind of like self-deprecating. Yeah. So there's a difference between having an expectation of yourself and not living up to it and lowering the expectation of yourself. Do you guys understand? Y'all do the first one. You all don't do the second one. And the problem is that despite multiple failures, your bar of potential never.

changes. What you're capable of never changes. And therefore, each failure hurts more and more and more. So I'm sorry, said, you had a question. Can you ask it again? Really good question, by the way. So what's the difference between setting my, you know, setting my expectations lower or, you know, setting the problem higher in a healthy way like you're describing? And just using that as an excuse to run away from the problem entirely. I don't understand how those two are like on opposite. Like, how does running away enter the equation? Oh, so I could, I can say, oh, man, this, this is, this is indeed, like, way too hard for me. I guess all, I guess it's an acceptable outcome for me to just stay in my room for the next few years and play video games. I see.

So if you lower your expectations and you, in failure is to be expected, then it's okay to not try. Yes. what's staving off hopelessness? Yeah. Good questions. Let me think about this. So staving off hopelessness is a separate issue. Well, I guess it's not, actually.

I guess that it is the same question. So let me start by saying, said, that's what you already do. Right? So like, already you guys have a, there's no point in trying because failure is inevitable. And here's, okay, this is tricky. It depends on where you are in time. Okay? So it's about being, I know this sounds weird, but like, if you guys really want to know the answer and y'all are fucking being five heads, fine.

You guys want to do the, you guys want to give me a hard question. I'll give you guys a hard answer, okay? So hopelessness is your mind in the past, the present, or the future when you were hopeless? In the future. Good. Next question. Is your mind in the future? the past, the present, or the future when you have hope?

The future? Present? I experience the present. Fucking weird, right? Who thinks future? I do. I think it would be. Talk it out amongst yourselves.

Because if you have hope, you think that there is something that will happen. Is that what hope is? That's not what hope is. Let's define hope. If I think something will happen, what's the word we use for that? Predig.

Certainty. Certainty. Okay, so you guys are saying certainty or predict. I'm going to toss out wild word. You guys may not be familiar with it. I'm going to toss out expectation. Okay. So let's go back to Bees.

So tell us now. hope, is hope in the past, present, future? What do you think? Where are you when you hope? Oh, I mean, well, I'm in the present when I hope. Right. So this is really confusing because hopelessness is about the future. Hope is about the present.

Hopelessness is about an outcome or the inability to attain an outcome. Hope is acknowledging that we don't know whether the outcome is there or not, but I want it. so you're actually in the present you're in the present looking forward hopelessness is about the future looking back and if you really tunnel down that's where you guys live right so when like said wakes up in the morning and is like let me apply for a job his mind isn't thinking about the present his mind is thinking about the future failure is inevitable there's no point in trying it is a mind that is in the future

that's what engenders hopelessness why bother we're going to screw up anyway it's too hard the common element here is a mind in the future now the real problem the real reason you guys suffer from this

is because the more intelligent you are the more the deeper into the future your mind can go and that's what really screws you guys right so your predictive capability increases

neuroticism or anxiety increases, generally speaking, with IQ, I think. Actually, that's not true. Yeah, that's not technically true, the way I phrased it. I will say this. Anxiety is worse in people who are smart. Cognitive anxiety, anyway. Does that answer your question about hopelessness? Or no?

Actually, I guess I haven't answered yet yet. So I just started with this, right? So like, okay, who here still thinks that hope is about the future or that your mind is in the future when you are hoping? Okay, I still think that, but I'll, this would be like where I rewind a video and... Okay, so let me explain it again, okay? So for those of you who think that hope is in the present, help help us understand what your perspective is. I mean, to me, hope is like an experiential thing. It's also a religious thing, but it's like, I don't know.

I only think it could be in the present because it's just like an experience, strangely enough. Yeah, like it's something you feel. Like, it's something that you go through. You experience hope. You're like thinking about the future, like the subject is the future and what could happen in it. But like the experience or the feelings you have that come along with hope happened in the moment is I think how I would describe it. Yeah, hope is like a feeling of potential. Yeah, but playing devil's advocate or B's advocate, you could also say the same about hopeless.

I think. Like, it's thoughts about the future, but it's in the present, experience in the present. Oh, but the difference I feel like is with hopelessness, you, well, when you're hopeless, you're like almost certain or you have an expectation, even if it's not like a correct one, that everything is just going to turn to shit. So, B, this is how I'd explain it. Hope is you standing in the present and looking towards the future. Hopeless is you standing in the future.

looking towards the present. Okay. I'll have to think about it more. That's fine. Right? So if you guys are talking about, like, you know, how to manage this, I think the biggest thing is to be present focused. Because what holds you guys back is like a certainty or expectation of the future that precludes action in the present.

Like your mind is literally making a risk or reward cost benefit analysis. and your motivation. So this is literally how your mind works. Okay? So it's kind of confusing. But you guys have this thing. So we have... Okay.

I'm going to explain some neuroscience, okay? So since you all want to be five head. Okay. So we have two systems in our mind that are in our brain that tend to like people get confused about because everyone thinks about motivation and reward. Okay? So when we think about motivation, we think about the reward circuitry of the brain and we think about dopamine. Y'all are familiar with this stuff?

Like most people are like amateur neuroscientists. So like the idea is that we have a reward structure and that dopamine is the neurotransmitter that like supports our reward structure. And that when we get a reward, it reinforces the behavior and motivates us to act. Right? Familiar with this? Okay. Yeah. So we have a couple of different, so the reward structure, the risk benefit part of the brain is actually not dopamine. It's actually a cannabinoid structure. So there's a different part of our brain that does our risk benefit analysis. And we actually understand this because people in schizophrenia or in some kinds of neurodegenerative disorders have something called abulia or a motivation. And the really interesting thing is that the people who are abulic or amotivor, or a motivation. And the really interesting thing is that the people who are abulic or amotivor,

their problem isn't necessarily in the dopamine reward circuitry, which is what we think of. It's actually in like this risk benefit, I mean, yeah, risk benefit sort of cost like analysis that you constantly is active in your brain. That's the problem that you guys have. It's not about a lack of reward. It's like the calculation that you all perform about whether an action is worth taking. It's actually a separate circuit of the brain. And right now what happens is, you guys make a calculation about the utility of your action. And then you conclude that it's not worth it to do. So it's not that you guys lack energy.

And in fact, you guys aren't, you guys don't even lack motivation technically. What's happening is your brain is motivating you to not act. Does that make sense? Like, if we think about said, what said is saying is that there's no point in me leaving the halfway point because there's nothing good down the road. And so it's a risk-benefit analysis that motivates you to inaction.

And this is why all these like fucking videos on motivation don't help people, because you guys don't lack motivation. What you guys need to understand is that you're motivated to stay put. You don't lack motivation to move forward. Different. So then the question, okay, questions about that, clarifications. All good with me? That's all good.

I'm afraid that I may have bombarded you guys with two. much tangential information without actually answering your question. I mean, it's a complicated question, so sometimes you have to go into tangents. Okay, so let me try to like re-explain, okay? So, I'm going to go back to SED's question, which is like, how do I, if I lower my expectations so low, then what I'll do is make a prediction that I'm going to fail anyway, so there's no point in trying because I suck so hard at life, right? So the funny thing is that's already what said does.

So he's making it sound like it's a different thing, but it's actually the same damn thing. Because right now, he already does a risk-benefit analysis and chooses an action. You guys see that? Whether you think high of yourself or you think low of yourself, he's coming to the same damn conclusion, even though I'm telling you guys to come from a different starting place. Does that make sense? Y'all really got to follow me there. That at the end of the day, he's saying, I'm going to fail anyway. there's no point in action. So that's why I sort of talk about this cannabinoid risk

benefit structure, because it's the same part of his brain that is still running the show. So he's not actually adopting my premise. Okay. So, and I'll get to that in a second. So said, then, Seth's next question is then how do I adopt your premise? Right, said? You got me. Okay. I get that. So like, we're walking you to that. So what I want you guys to still know, is that as long as the risk-reward structure is determining whether you act or don't act, you will be motivated towards inaction. Got it? So now let me ask you guys a question. Okay, this is a hard one. Let's go, bitches. Is that present thinking or future thinking? Present.

Absolutely. But that's like literally not the thought that you have, right? Like literally in your mind, you guys don't have the present thought. You have the future thought. There's no point. Present thinking or future thinking? Future thinking. Absolutely. So some of this, so now the question is, okay, what do we do about it? Right? So some of this literally is controlling your mind. Because I want you guys to understand that you can cultivate particular kinds of thoughts. Okay. Now we're really going on a tangent. but I want you guys to understand this for a moment, that your mind gets conditioned. What is it that conditions your mind?

Our environment? What impact is our environment? Okay, so like how does our environment, so there's the environment, right? So like, but environment itself doesn't do any conditioning. When something happens to you, you learn about like, or you learn, like you interpret some sort of meaning from something happening to you that cause some sort of effect and that changes how you think. Exactly. Right. So it's the environment's effect on you. Like it's not literally the environment. The environment has to impact you. There's like a there's a there's like

the outside and the inside. So for example, like if I have ear plugs on and someone is talking to me, even though the environment is the same, like whether I have ear plugs in or out, the environment is not reaching me. Does that make sense? So let's like think a little bit about like, you know, if you were raised, like how have you guys been conditioned? You're gifted. So literally what happens is this like stimuli from the outside create certain thought patterns. And then you guys have beliefs about yourself. And those beliefs live in your subconscious and generate thoughts.

So if we think about a phobia, for example, like let's say I have a phobia of snakes because I got bit by a snake when I was a kid. How does that work? Like literally in the way that, like, how does that work? So I get bit by a snake. It generates an experience. The experience lives in my subconscious. And then that subconscious experience is a thought generator, which then like spawns. It's like a portal.

And it's like spawning certain thoughts. You guys get that? So now the question is, okay, if I want to be present focused instead of future focused, how do I spawn present focus? thoughts. Is that a good question that y'all are interested in? Yeah, yes. How do I change from there's no point to let's go, bitches? And part of that literally is that you can condition your own mind by cultivating a particular kind of thought, right? So what we can say is that if I, if you guys, like, for example, all live in a house and I show up every day and I gas you all up,

I'm like, believe in yourself, man, you can do it, bro. That's going to create a different kind of conditioning, right? Because like, the reason you guys don't believe in yourself now is because you've been conditioned to believe that you're a failure. But at the end of the day, what I want you guys to realize is that whether I'm there or not there, the operative thing is that what sinks in. So if I show up and I'm gassing you guys up,

but I'm, Gujarati ma'u'u. You know, if you're going to say that you, a woman no be a manned and so like it's what enters your mind

that's important do you all get that yeah and so then comes the key thing which is the cultivation of your own thoughts and this is what really

holds you guys back because I've been saying all along this is basically the same thing that the hurricane outside is created by you it's the self-conditioning that gets imposed every day when you wake up and you think particular thoughts about yourself these neurons literally form channels in your brain that are connections and start firing more commonly

so it's kind of like a game trail like if i have a field of grass and then i run across it the grass gets put down a little bit and then like a deer walks by and it's like oh there's like there's a path that's a little bit easier to walk across and then the deer goes down that and the grass gets trampled. The grass gets trampled and the grass gets trampled. Your brain literally works the same way. That's literally the mechanism of learning. So like when we think about memorization, it's like we're running that game trail.

We're flattening that grass and then you know something and it becomes instinctive. So the problem is that y'all's neurons have been conditioned. That's what we call conditioning. So your neurons have like cultivated a particular thought pattern. And so literally what you know, need to do is cultivate a different one. And so how does that work? That's because you guys ultimately have some control over your mind. Right. So I know this also gets weird. But there's the true self and then there's mental activity, which are separate. So there's consciousness and there's thinking.

And we'll get to that in a second when I teach you guys how to meditate. So what you'll need to do is like literally in a moment in time, you can change your thought with intense willpower. and a manabar that's going to be depleted every time you do it. But you're laying down a new game trail. So it's going to be exhausting. So like, you guys are literally going to be faced with a task, and you're going to say there's no point. And the question is, in that moment,

can you tell yourself, let's go, bitches? And now you guys have to be careful because you're still going to fail. And now we get to, you have to allow yourself to fail. You have to be patient with yourself. Understand that a tiny little mouse has run through the grass when you say, let's go, bitches. And then tomorrow comes, and there's like a super highway, which is, I have so much potential and I suck at life.

And then there's this tiny little game trail, which a mouse has gone down. And then it's like, hey, let's do a few push-ups today. Ah, fuck it, I'm never going to be in shape. Let's go, bitches. And then it's a rabbit. And then it's a deer. and this is how change happens.

And we see that process going on with Jacob. Right? Like, he's been in the shitter for a while, but he's like getting some kind of relief and acceptance. And I'd guess that that's like, that's not something that like he wakes up and he's like, ah, like I'm accepting where I am. It's like, it's a slog.

Right? Like, it's a slog. And that's why you guys have to be patient with yourselves and you have to give yourself time to change. And you have to understand that, that y'all are, you know, undoing anywhere between 18 and 20-some-odd years of conditioning. And that the neurons in your brain have taught you to believe this thing about yourself. But this is the other really important thing to understand is to have the revelation that this is not truth.

I don't know if you guys get this. You guys have thoughts about yourself, right? Are those thoughts true? Maybe. Not always true. Most of them. No. So now I'm going to ask you all, because y'all are gifted and talented.

Are thoughts accurate representations of reality? No. No. Sometimes. Right? Like, if they were, fucking unicorns, baby. So the first thing that, like, another thing that you need to understand is that you think all these things about you. But there's just thoughts.

Like, what truth is there in a thought? I had a thought today that I was president of the United States. I had a thought today that CD Project Red mailed me CDs that have cyberpunk on them. I can have like thoughts are just the fucking thoughts. They have no bearing in reality. Like literally like they have like no bearing in reality. Yeah, I know you guys think they have some bearing in reality. That's a conversation for a different day.

Experience has a bearing in reality. Thoughts don't. Right? So it's just thoughts that you can cultivate thoughts. That the cultivation of thoughts is like, a slow process. And then along the way, if you are expecting

results, then you're going to be future focused and you will not continue the cultivation of thoughts. Does that make sense? And furthermore, so the reason I use the word cultivation, what is cultivation? You sow the seeds and then come back for them

later. Absolutely. And what if there's nothing there? Did you cultivate incorrectly? Yes. No. Incorrect. Right? So that's the whole point, is cultivation implies it's not creation.

There's a difference between creating and cultivating. What's the difference? Like, it takes time to cultivate something. Creating a general. Cultivating. Absolutely. So it's about certainty, right? Like, creation is something I have control over.

Cultivating is something that I don't. So I use some of this language like very carefully because this language, like there's a correlation between hope and cultivation. You guys get that? Like if you cultivate a plant, like if I plant a plant a seed, like I hope it's going to grow. But that's the most that I can do is hope. And the more you start living present focus, the more you say to yourself, let's go, bitches, something magical will happen, which is that hope will start to be born. and the reason that hope will be born is because you are creating the circumstance which hope requires to be born, which is to have a mind in the present.

Hopelessness is a child of the future. Like, by definition, you cannot be hopeless unless you are thinking about the future. If the focus of your mind is on the future, you can be hopeless. If I'm eating a sandwich and it's like, tasty and I'm just eating it. Can I be hopeless? Not really. It's like literally impossible. I want you guys to understand this. It is literally impossible to be hopeless if you are eating a sandwich.

As long as your mind is on the sandwich, you're like, damn, this is a delicious sandwich. It can be a disgusting sandwich. But, so here's where the hopelessness comes in. If you start to think yourself, man, I have to finish this sandwich. Hopelessness, boom. You guys see that? God, this sandwich is fucking disgusting. no hopelessness I have to finish it

fuck hopelessness so how do you be hopeful if you lower expectations how do you fight against the idea of not needing to do it anymore you just stick your fucking mind in the present as best as you can let's go bitches you try to tell yourself that

third thing and we'll get to this now is that like you can start to there are other things you can do third thing is that you can train your mind to be in the present so that's like like you know it's like focusing your mind on the present is just like focusing your gaze. It's a skill that can be acquired.

And meditation is basically the most direct skill that we use to train your mind to be in the present. Do you guys feel hopeless when you're playing a video game? That's a good question. A lot of them thinking about the game. Exactly.

It's a pet. I'm thinking about the results of the game. Exactly. So you guys know this. Like you guys know this shit, man. when you're playing a League of Legends game and you look at your draft do you feel hopeless or not? Because if you're like

if you're like if you're thinking about how the game is going to play out, ah, there comes to hopelessness. You guys see that? And then there are times where you're like, it's an even game and you're not thinking you're like, okay, let's do it. Like there's a five on five engagement around Barron.

And like in that moment you're not like, that's what's fun, right? And like that's why it serves as an escape. Because video games put your mind in the present. That's why they're fun. And video games cause you to suffer. And that's when you're thinking about the future in the video game. It's like a microcosm for reality, which is wild.

I love it. So you can even track your enjoyment of games and you'll see that like when your mind is in the present, you'll be having fun. I have a question. Yeah. So I feel like, well, I mean, every decision made is for like something. outcome in the future, right? How do you, like, how do you decide to do things and not think about the future? Like, you do, you apply to college because you have the expectation that in four years you're going to graduate with the degree. How do you keep your mind in the present always? Or like,

how do you consider what you should do in the future? Good question. Unfortunately, the answer is roughly the same, but I'll explain it in a different way. So you can consider the future. But it's about expectation versus, like, hope, right? So, like, I can say, so, like, let's just take, like, like, so I'm going to talk about Dota, for example, because I don't know leave that well. So there's a hero in Dota called Pudge. Anyone know who Pudge is? Pudge is like a fat guy that hooks things, okay? And, like, Pudge is the kind of hero that, like, has a skill shot, which there are fewer of in Dota.

And then, like, the Pudge is, like, the pick that ruins your games. Because you get a bad Pudge, and then he's, like, useless. Like, you can't do anything except for hook people. And then occasionally on the other team, you'll get a good punch, and he's hooking the shit out of you guys and pulling you guys out of position. It's like, is the kind of hero that just ruins your games. Because the enemy has a good one, and you've got a bad one. Okay? So, like, when you play a game of Dota, like, you can think about trying to win, or you can say to yourself, let's go, bitches.

Right? it's not really about winning or losing. It's not like we're going to draft a win. It's like, let's pick this fucking meme combo and wreck these shitties. And like when you play the game like that, it becomes more fun. Like, sure, you have a calculation somewhere in your mind about like what the game is going to look like. But that's not where you sit. You don't sit in the future.

You sit in the present and you're looking forward. Does that make sense? So our outlook on the future should be that we hope things go a certain way and then not really like put too much pressure to have them go a certain way and just think about what we're doing now. Exactly. So focus on action. Right? Like the question isn't are we going to wreck these shitties? The question is let's try to wreck these shitties.

Like how do we wreck these shitties? Let's do it. Go for it. And that's like that's literally how like so you guys understand this. If you play a game like that, if you play a game to have fun, like, let's pick some meme combo and stomp these nobs. And then even if you guys get crushed, you're like, let's do it again. Right? And like, literally, that's what Buddha discovered about life.

Is there two ways to live life. And when you start living life, like, you're a meme lord, like, it becomes fun and blissful. Because every day, it's like, let's see, like, what we're eating for lunch. Oh, God. This sandwich is awful. Let's see if we get wrecked tomorrow by another awful sandwich. Lulls? That's literally what enlightenment is.

It's to treat good actions and bad actions in equanimity. Right? Because you guys know this that like even if you get trolled really, really hard, you can still appreciate it. Right? And like that's, it's silly, but like that's actually like the big thing. Like, that's what Buddha discovered that Buddha was like the ultimate meme lord. And he realized that if you live your life like a meme, like you're going to, there's nothing can touch you.

And you'll be blissful, irrespective of what happens. So you can think about the future. And this gets also into like ambition and detachment, which maybe we can do a video on one day. But a lot of people like ask me, like, if I become detached from the outcome of my actions, how do I act? because usually it's ambition that motivates me. And ambition is based on outcomes. And the short answer is, try it. You'll be amazed.

Because what you'll realize is that, like, your actions don't have to be motivated by ambition. They can be motivated by, like, excitement and curiosity and all kinds of other stuff. And just an appreciation for doing what you're doing. Right? And like the people who are happiest are the ones that enjoy their work. because they're not thinking about it.

Like, I work with a bunch of investment bankers, and they hate their job. And they, like, do it for the money. Like, that's no way to live. I mean, it is a way to live. It's a comfortable way to live. And so, like, you can enjoy an action in and of itself if you just devote yourself to the action,

turning into a lecture. Other questions. So I think we've, like, kind of, we've touched like around it but like uh so when uh i think like for for probably a lot of people in general but but definitely for gifted kids we're kind of put down this this like a predetermined quest line of you're going to do you're going to take these classes in elementary school and then you're going to take like honors classes in middle school and then AP or you're going to go to a collegiate high school or something like that um and then maybe like um um um um um um

more if you're like an immigrant kid, you're probably going to get pushed down another quest line of lawyer, doctor, engineer. But if you're not, or once you're past that, how do you start making choices when you've never made any? What paralyzes you from making a choice, B? The future. There you go. Very good.

So can you guys turn that into an answer? I see that you've connected those two dots, but I think it's hard to turn that into an answer. So, like, do you guys have a sense? Right? So you just have to free yourself from consequences. So it's like, it's the difference between studying for an A and studying to understand the material.

Like, why are you guys studying? And the more that you devote yourself to, like, learning the material, this is like a big scam in life, right? Is that, like, let me think about how to say this. We devalue the thing that leads to the result, and instead we value the result as a proxy to the thing. Right? So, like, what we really care about is, like, learning. Like, if you get hired for a job as an engineer, what we care about is that you know, you understand engineering. But what society conditions us to place value on is grades.

because grades are a proxy for knowledge. And so the more that we get wrapped up in like this false thing, it's just like all ego in comparison. It's not actually about knowledge at all. And so the more that you kind of focus on the thing itself, like how do you act? How do you choose? You've been conditioned. I get you, B, like I was conditioned too.

And despite my best attempts, I still wound up as a doctor. right and like the reason I'm a good doctor is because I didn't want to be a doctor and then like at the age of like 25 I was like oh shit maybe I actually want to be actually I didn't even want to be a doctor when I went to med school tell you guys the truth that's probably why I'm doing a good job because I didn't care about it like I became a doctorate because my teachers were like go get a doctoral degree and I was like eh okay and oddly enough it's like doing it for no reason so I was like you know or doing it for my own It wasn't about the prestige or anything like that. It was just like, I have to do this if I want to take my vows and become a monk. So, okay, I guess I'll do that. And then, like, I failed, right? So I got rejected from, like, 130, 20 medical schools a lot. And then, like, each of those failures, it doesn't matter because, like, I'm not going to really be a doctor anyway.

I'm just, like, doing this for the sake of, like, doing it so that my teachers can be happy, whatever. Maybe there's an outcome somewhere in there. But I think I train myself to be, like, present focus. It's like, okay, you get 40 rejections. like none of those rejections really influence like whether I apply the 41st time I can take that information I can integrate it I can get feedback but I'm still going to apply again like you can wipe a thousand times on a boss and you can still like go in the next day and like try to wipe again right you guys have played dark souls you understand what that's like

like it's very frustrating that you're going to wipe over and over and over again but like that's not the point it's not like you don't you don't go into a boss and dark souls and expect a doubt at the first time or a wow rate for that matter or ff 14 you know that wiping is part of the process but each time you wipe if it doesn't cripple you it makes you stronger right each time you wipe what i want you guys to understand is that like each failure in your life is gaining XP and so it's about learning not about performance and that's why you guys are ADCs so what happened in my case is like I was a no one for a while and then I was an average person

and now like people think I'm a someone I'm no different from you guys I'm like probably just about where y'all were when y'all are y'all's age like we're no different the thing is society looks at me differently but like that's because society's dumb

and you guys look at me differently because that's y'all y'all are dumb too seriously thank you because you guys adopt the conditioning of society, which I don't blame you for, but let's not call it smart. Because capability to you guys thus far has been a burden, right?

It's a potential. Let me ask you guys this. Where is potential in the present or in the future? The future. There we go. You guys are trapped in the future. There's literally, show me potential. What is potential in the universe? doesn't exist

Absolutely There is just what is And so if there's no potential How can you be failures? Seriously If any of you guys can answer that question I will stop streaming Because if I'm wrong about this

Like this is the foundation Upon which all of what I All the work that I do is built Well I guess the only weird thing Is like by that logic No one can ever be a failure I guess That is correct Can you fail at stuff?

Sure. Can I fail? Can I get an F on a test? Absolutely. I've done it before. Trust me. But like this is the concept of advaid Vedanta. Non-dualism. So is there a good sandwich or a bad sandwich? There is just a sandwich. Convinced me otherwise, right? So the good or the bad is what we apply to it.

There's just a sandwich. Is it blasphemy or delicious? Depends on whether it's a BLT and you're Muslim. like, you know, like the, the BLT is the BLT. And like where we end up with it is like wildly different based on some shit in here. And you guys think your failures because of some shit in here. You guys aren't failures. There's no such thing.

You guys are just where you are on your journey. Like this is the only place you can be. How can you? It's silly. I could have been in a different place if I had done things. Like how is that, like show me any. who's been in a different place because they did anything differently. Reality is like one thing, bros.

At least until we prove like alternate universes. You guys start like dimensional shifting to like other places. Like then I'll eat my words. But until that shit has proven and maybe one of you all gifted and talented Aerospace Academy kids will discover this. You know, so like that whole concept of y'all being a failure is just wrong, man. No such thing. Enough for today.

Yeah, I'm good. Awesome. Yeah. I learned that Buddha is a meme lord. Yes. One of the greatest tricks he's ever pulled on the world is convincing people that he was something special. You guys know this? I'll leave you guys with one last story.

You guys know what Zen masters do when they attain enlightenment, the first thing that they do? laugh. What? Because literally what the Zen tradition teaches you is that none of it is necessary. None of the meditation is necessary. It's all scam. That's literally what Zen Buddhism teaches. Because we're all already enlightened.

And it's all a big meme. Like, I kid you guys not. Like, if you go and study Buddhism, that is what they will tell you. There's no such thing as, like, not being enlightened. We're all enlightened anyway. And it's like all just a scam. If people have, you know, studied Buddhism, they'll, understand that. But it's bizarre. They even say

their meme words. Like Buddha was the original meme lord. He's like the original troll. I'm going to teach you guys a bunch of stuff that's really hard that you never need it anyway. And then his story of enlightenment, you guys know this? So he like meditates for a really long time and he does all these really hard systems of meditation. He's like

fuck it, I'm done. And then he goes and he sits under a tree and he's like fuck this shit. And then he becomes enlightened. It's when he abandons everything that he gains his enlightenment. It's like this is all dumb. Anyway, a lot of good stories about both. Okay.

So we've been at... I do have one thing. Yeah. So, like, the idea of, like, Buddhist teaching is to, like, not take anything too seriously. And, like, the thing that you're kind of telling us is, like, something of the same, like, you know, live in the present, you know. Like, what about, like, commitments? and like not necessarily commitments to like like a I don't know like if you have like family like you have kids and like you can't always you can't always be like you know

fuck it we ball sometimes you got to be like okay like I need to like think about the future of my kid and like that can be you know worrisome is that like a healthy worry good question so first of all Buddhism never says don't take things seriously in fact it says the opposite but so like and that's that may sound like a contradiction with being a meme lord but like this may sound like a profound statement

but like a meme is actually a very serious thing right it's like actually very profound but anyway so to answer your question so this is where like we bring in Dharma right so Dharma or duty or responsibility so this is where a lot of people like slip up because they think like you know

when I say let's go, bitches, that doesn't mean that I get to do whatever I want to. In fact, it means the opposite. So like what I would say about, let's say, for example, family attachments and parenthood. So I'm a parent and I have children. So I love my children. I'm attached to my children. I was pretty good at the detachment thing until I had kids. And then actually what I realized, like, oh, this is pretty cool. Because then I realized this is actually part of my karma and this is the next level. Because then what I did is become detached. from my attachment. And I kid you guys not. I know this sounds weird. I'd worked so hard to be detached and then I had kids. And then I was like, oh, fuck, I'm attached now. All of my detachment has gone down the drain now that I'm like loving and investing my

kids. And then one day I was meditating, I started laughing. I was like, isn't that silly? How attached I am to losing my detachment. And so then I was like, fuck it. I'm going to be attached. I'm going to love my kids. So be it.

And then it's been fun since then. And I just let myself be invested in them. I let myself be worried. I let myself stay up late at night because one of them has a fever. And what I realized is like you actually live life more fully. Like let yourself be swept away by your family responsibilities. So be it. Like it makes no difference.

Like you can you can still live up to your Dharma. And I think you should. live up to your atthama. And like living up to your Adhāama is simply, it's like taking a test. I'm not saying sit around and do nothing and don't take tests. I'm saying that you guys should go out and you should act. But when I'm raising my kids,

I don't get bent out of shape about whether I'm doing a bad job. And now this is important to understand, so hopefully you guys can understand this distinction. I try to do the best that I can and I don't get bad out of shape about doing a bad job. So I'm not saying absolve yourself of all responsibility.

I'm not saying stop trying. Is that make sense? There's a huge, there's an entire gulf between doing the best that you can and getting bent out of shape. And what you guys do is the opposite. Because y'all get bent out of shape and don't do the best that you can. You'll see that? So, oddly enough, like, you can commit to your Dharma, and this is the power of Dharma is that it flips those around for you. So there are a lot of other things that we haven't talked about today. Dharma's one, ego is one, dissolution of ego. But if you start living your Dharma, because then it's about doing the action, right?

Like if your family's depending on you, case and point. So like what we see in Alchem is like a sense of Dharma. He's like, I've got to do this. This is what I have, this is what I owe myself to take care of myself. And I can't live like this anymore. That's actually, on its deepest level, it's a duty to himself that he deserves more. And so he's devoting himself to that. Hope that answers your question.

Yeah. Okay. Cool. So I'm spent, I'm sure you guys are too. Yes. So I think maybe we'll have to skip meditation for today. Let me just ask you guys real quick. I mean, like, I usually don't talk this much.

How do you all feel about that? I think it was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Took a lot of the pressure off to perform. Well, listen.

So actually, I have to commend you guys. And so like, be careful, okay? So watch what happens when I say this. Last thing I'll tell you guys. I'll leave you hanging after this. So I think you guys are so smart that, like, I didn't need to ask you guys questions. You guys ask such insightful questions that I could give you answers.

Y'all are so smart that I knew you could kind of keep up. so it's actually really fun for me. What does that do to you? If that's... Kent off that's a meme. I prefer to what you're calling us stupid. Yeah. Right?

So there's a whole other bucket of stuff. Like, why is it that you guys can't sit with authentic praise? A lot of stuff you guys need to work on. And I don't know that you guys can't sit with authentic praise. I'm just making assumptions here. But anyway, strong work today. My dudes, even if I did most of the talking, it's hard to get me to talk, so well played. Any kind of closing thoughts or questions before we wrap up?

Just thank you. Yeah, this is like really insightful and a good discussion. Definitely learned a lot. So I just, yeah, thank you. Thank you for having us on here. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not super familiar with like your work. I've heard like a little bit about it, Dr. Kay, but do you have any recommendations

for like, I know you said meditation. I have never heard anything about, like, you doing meditation before. Do you have any recommendations for things that we could look at for that? Yeah. So we have a lot of, like, different meditations on our YouTube channel. You guys, like, they're just kind of there. I think for y'all, I don't think it's a good time to teach meditation right now. Just because you have to be sort of cognitively there.

But I will think a little bit about what kind of meditation for y'all specifically. And maybe we'll pop that up on YouTube once I think about it. So like what's a good ego dissolving meditation? But that doesn't feel quite right to me. Okay. Cool. I guess I can give you guys sort of a meditative. So there are different kinds of meditations.

One is a formal meditation practice. And one is something that is like more of a, it's a different, it's not an alumina. So there's like, alumbanaz are like meditative techniques. So I'm going to give you guys a meditation. a meditation that is not a technique, so I know it sounds weird. I want you guys to eat something that you dislike and appreciate it. So try that. Okay. I didn't say like it. I didn't say enjoy it. I said appreciate it.

So can you just like eat something and like even if you dislike it? Appreciate it. Try to do that and see what happens. Okay. Good luck. Strong work. Thank you. Thank you. See ya.