HealthyGamerGG - Why The Holidays Suck

Episode Date: November 30, 2021

Dr. K Talks the holidays, dealing with narcissistic family, and how to stay sane. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's like going for a jog, and when you start huffing and puffing, your lungs are like, oh, shit, we need to get in shape. That's literally what's going to happen in their brain, is they're like struggling to keep up with what you're saying. Okay. So let's start with, so you don't want to go home for the holidays. So there are kind of like three or four skills before we start off. There are three or four skills that y'all need to learn that are going to be really important. The first is articulate instead of attack. Okay.

So the first thing to understand, very important for the narcissistic family member, is that you don't want to like, as you state your opinion, it will be perceived as, oh, what the, well, maybe this will turn into narcissistic family member. So first, like, so tip number one is articulate instead of attack. So if you don't like something about the holidays, like, for example, you know, let's say that like, if your household is like mine, you know, most of the women are responsible. for cooking and cleaning while the men sit around and basically do nothing. And so if you were to challenge that in some way and kind of point that out, right, then chances are like someone will feel attacked. And like if they feel attacked, they're going to get defensive. And if they feel defensive and if they start to feel guilty, then the narcissistic behaviors

will pop up, right? Because then they'll like attack you in turn because they're like, how dare you make me feel you know, lazy and you make me feel like called out, you're calling me out. You're calling me out for being lazy and not contributing to the holiday. So screw you. I'm on the attack. So the first thing that we need to do is learn how to articulate instead of attack. Okay?

Second thing, I know it's kind of rough. Don't expect much. So understand that when it comes to traditions and dynamics around the holidays, I apologize, but one two-hour stream is not going to give you the magic bullet that will allow you to become a superhuman, and go into the holidays and transform things overnight. Okay? It definitely is going to help you. Don't get me wrong,

but recognize that altering families and especially narcissistic personalities is not done after a two-hour stream. It's going to like take time. So what we're going to be doing is establishing a foundation of communication and boundary setting, which you will then build on over time.

And then a year from now, two years from now, you'll start to see like real change within your whole family. Okay? Next thing is manage your own emotions. So, if you are trying to create change in any kind of situation, you need to be calm, cool, and collected. So like, you can't get emotionally invested in what's going on because this is the Jedi mind trick. When you get emotionally activated, the narcissistic family member, you're playing their game and they're going to win. They're master manipulators, right?

So the second you get emotional and the second they pull out responses from you that are like emotionally driven, like you've lost because they're going to beat you at that game. That's why they are what they are in the family, right? That's like how they get there is because they are they are diamond level players at emotional manipulation. And so if they're emotionally manipulative in your emotional, you've lost. That's the counter. So what you need to do is like manage your own. emotions because the more that you manage your emotions, then they're not going to have like anything to attack, right? It's like you're going to have like, you know, you have like emotion vulnerability.

Like that that's what they attack with. So you just have to be, you have to manage your own emotions. So how do you do that? We're going to teach you a little bit of meditation today. We're going to actually do it today. So I'm going to share scenarios with you that are going to make you feel validated and then you'll process some of those emotions and hopefully you'll feel a little bit better off. You can also do something like, I think group coaching is fantastic for this kind of thing, where you can join like one of our groups, do some group coaching, talk about the holidays, bitch about the holidays, commiserate with other people who are also bitching about the holidays, process your emotions so that you can go into the holidays, calm, cool, and collected.

Okay, so these are our three skills. Articulate instead of attack. Don't expect much. Change is slow within families and manage your own emotions. Okay? And that's not, I'm not really debating you guys. So you guys like, we're talking about narcissism. Okay, it's going to be the common thread here.

So we're going to take narcissism and we're going to run it through the other two and then we'll sort of conclude with it. Okay. So you don't want to go home for the holidays. So let's start with this scenario. What does this look like? I need a name, chat. What's a name? Okay.

Nick. Okay. So me. Perfect. So hold on. Stop school. Okay. Okay.

So we've got Pepolini. Okay. So we're going to have Pepolini. So Pepolini calls their parents and says, dear parents of Pepolini, I'm sorry, but I don't want to come home for the holidays. And then the parents say what? They say, but honey, we miss you so much, little Pepolini. It's just without you, who's going to be our pepollini?

Like, we need our little pepillini. It's such a wonderful time, and we miss you so much, and we love you so much. And, like, it's a time for the family to be together. we miss you darling please come home you know we're just it's not the same without you it won't be the same you know they'll say all these kinds of things right and so like what are they actually saying they're talking about why the holidays are good for them we will miss you it's tradition it's something that we value it's all about their perspective and what they gain from the holidays and so this is what how you respond okay so this is like one-on-one you say oh

Okay. So I'm hearing that if I don't come home from the holidays, you'll miss me. It won't be the same. And you kind of like really value everyone being together for the holidays because that is important to you. It'll hurt me. Beautifully put. Oh, it'll hurt. It'll hurt me. Therefore, if you don't come home for the holidays, you are damaging me. You are hurting me by not coming. Right. So if we really pay attention to that, is there any understanding or anywhere in, like, is there room for Pepolini in any of those statements? Are the parents even asking, why don't you want to come home? Right? Is that even like happening at all?

No, it's all about tradition and you're just a possession, very well said, right? It's all about like how you will affect them. It'll hurt you. So this is where you reflect back and you can. can say, oh, dad, I get that you guys miss me a lot. I get that like, you know, you really want me to be there. And I would hope, I too enjoy spending time with family up to a point. You know, I can definitely see the value. So you want to acknowledge. I can see the value in coming home for the holidays. I'm curious, and this is where you have soccer punch him, okay? So get ready

for this. This is where you say, what's your understanding of what my experience of the holidays is like. So ask them. Don't tell them, hey, it sucks for me because A, B, C. It sucks for me because all you all ever ask me is when am I going to get married? That's all you ever ask. All you ever do is like talk about how you're so disappointed and how much potential I have and I've never lived up to it. It, you know, like you don't, you don't, because if you do that, what is that doing, chat? Is that articulating or attacking? It's attacking, right? So we're not going to do that. We don't actually tell them. you know, like what we feel.

Okay? So don't attack, chat. I know you want to. That's why you have to get your emotions in check, okay? No attacking. I know you want to. I really, I know you do, but we don't want to do it. Get your emotions in check.

Don't attack. So instead of saying all those things, you're going to ask, hey, what's your understanding of like what it's like for me when I come home for the holidays? And then the parents are going to be confused. They're going to be like, what? Because what you're asking them to do is you're like asking them to do is you're like asking a question that requires them to use empathy. You're asking them, put yourself in my shoes. You can say put yourself in my shoes, but no one ever actually does that, right? That's not actually how you

engage the empathic circuits of the brain. What you actually do is you ask them a question. What's your understanding of what my experience is like? And then, like, they have to put themselves in your shoes to answer it. And they'll say, I don't know. Why don't you tell me? And that's where you kind of to take a step back. And then you kind of, once again, articulate instead of acknowledge. I mean, instead of attack, right? And then you can say, oh, I can see, now it's making a lot of sense. That understanding my perspective is not something that, like, you, it's not like you

really understand what my experience is like, and you need me to explain it to you. I now understand why it's, like, been hard for me to come home for the holidays, because I now get that, like, it seems like you don't actually understand what my experience is like. And that's also why we have differing ideas of the holidays, right? Because you seem to think it's like wonderful and fun and all these kinds of things. But I get it now. You actually don't understand what my experience is like. And that's why you're confused, why I don't want to come home for the holidays. It makes sense to me. And so that's like sort of an attack, but what you really want to do is articulate that they don't understand what your perspective is like. Okay? So it's

kind of passive aggressive. Yeah, because fuck them, right? This is really hard to execute. You're right it is. That's why we're training you line by line, okay? And we're going to give you guys a lot of training here. I'm with you. So you could say, oh, I understand that you don't know what it's like for me. And that makes sense to me. Like now I understand why we have differing opinions. Because you have this one understanding of the holidays and it seems like you're not really aware of mine. Okay. So then they're going to feel attacked and they're like, oh, just tell us what are we doing wrong. So this is this is pitfall number one where they tell you tell us what we're doing wrong and we will fix it. They want to jump right to the solution, okay? Because here's what's going to happen.

If they ask you, okay, so let's see chat, let's see what your predictive, what your, you know, predictive capabilities are. If they say, tell us what we're doing wrong and we'll fix it, what happens if you tell them what they're doing wrong. What are they going to say? Let's say that you guys always just ask me, when am I going to get married and when am I going to live up to my potential. What are they going to say if you say that? Oh, beautiful. That's correct. Oh, so good. So good. Two or three things. Okay. So this is the problem. The first is they'll start arguing with you. They're like, oh, no, like they'll deny. They'll say like, oh, we don't do that. Like, you're crazy, bitch. Why are you thinking that? That's not what we mean. It's not what we mean.

Don't you understand? That's not what we mean. We say it for your benefit. It's because we love you. We'll get denials. We'll get justifications. We'll get you're an idiot for not understanding. Right? All of those things. That's bucket number one. It's a pretty big bucket. It's not what we mean. The next thing that they'll do, or if you guys are like, I don't know if that's lucky or unlucky. The other thing is empty promises. Someone said it like that. Very good. okay they'll be like oh we won't do that

we'll do whatever you want little one oh pepillini please come back we promise we won't ask you about your marriage and here's the thing they can promise it in that moment but I want you all to understand this like their brain has not transformed

in that moment that's not how behavioral change happens like in that moment they're not going to remember their promise it's not about remembering the promise it's about rewiring their brain. It's about like, because giving a promise does not teach them empathy. Do you guys get that what they need to do

is have empathy for your situation? But it's not like you just like make a promise and it's like your brain is like, boom, we're just going to build this empathy circuit up over here and it's going to be easy, done, finished. Right? So they'll promise whatever they need to to get you to come.

And they'll say, oh, we promise we won't do that. Okay, so either way, Peppolini, don't trust them. Your parents are evil. No, your parents are not evil. remember the goal of this is to develop healthy relationships with your family. That's the goal of this, okay? But we have to understand what's going on in order to develop a healthy relationship with them. So this is where, remember, you have to manage your expectations, okay? Don't expect much.

And you can say, so this is where, like, if they say, whatever they say, you can kind of articulate back. So if they're very resistant, you can just reflect back to them. You're saying, oh, okay, so like, what you're saying is that, you know, my feelings and my reaction to your situation is, to the holidays is like a misinterpretation of your intention. So because you don't mean to hurt my feelings, there's really nothing wrong with what y'all are doing. Am I hearing that correctly? And they're going to be like, wait a minute. So this is the key thing, right? So if you don't argue, you just articulate to them what they said. Just articulate it. Just be like, hey, so you're saying like basically, you don't want to say like, and you don't want to get emotional, because if you get emotional, you're going to say something like you're basically telling me to go fuck myself, right?

You don't want to say that, but you want to say that. You just articulate. So what I'm hearing is that the reason that I don't enjoy the holidays is because I don't understand your intention behind the words that you say. Is that fair to say? Just ask them. Is that what you mean? Or that are you saying that the reason I don't enjoy the holidays is because I'm confused about what y'all are saying because you never say it. So if they use denial, if they use we love you, even though I feel hurt, you're basically telling me that since it's coming from a place of love, like you're going to continue doing it or I'm confused. So you can just ask them to play the tape through the end. And this is where like once again, there's going to be like an empathic lurch in their brain. Because if you're attacking them, they can get defensive, right? But if you're like just asking them questions and like asking them to confirm the idiocy that comes out of their mouth, they're going to get like kind of confused. and then like you'll see there's like a calculation error.

It's going to be like the debugging process before you run the script like comes up with an error and it won't run properly. And they'll kind of get confused. And the good news is you're already winning at that point because their empathic brain is like struggling. It's like going for a jog and when you start huffing and puffing, your lungs are like, oh shit, we need to get in shape. That's literally what's going to happen in their brain is they're like struggling to keep up with what you're saying. Because deep down, they know that you're laying a trap for them.

Right? You're like, they're like, they can tell because you're not, you're not folding. They can tell that like, oh my God, there's a trap in here. But they don't know how to dodge it because the trap is like literally their words. And so they get like kind of confused. They're like, oh, crap. Right? You guys get that?

And so you can ask them to articulate. And then this is where you can like pull like kind of a jiu-jitsu move. So like they make flounder. And so this is where they'll also default to the second one. they'll be like, just tell us what you want. Just tell us how to fix it. Once they get confused and they don't know how to read you anymore, but they just be like, just tell me what you want.

Just tell me. Whatever you want, I'll do it. Whatever, whatever. Just tell me, what do you want from me? Have you guys heard that? What do you want from me? What do you want from me? Like, what I want from you is understanding.

Well, how do I get to explain to me how to understand? Tell me how to understand. Right? It's confusing for them because you can't make them understand. They have to make the effort to understand themselves. And so you can say, okay, so this is where you've got an option. If you're going to go home for the holidays,

you can lay a specific boundary, and I'd start small. So you can say, yeah, so what it would help if you guys did not mention when I'm getting married or what my dating status is. Like, what do you got,

how do you all feel about? And then ask them, like, so lay your boundary and then ask them. How do y'all feel about that? Can I come home for the holidays without talking about dating at all? Are you guys going to do, are you all willing to do that?

And then this is where they say, oh, of course we'll do it. Like, we're totally fine with that. And so then you'll kind of ask them, okay, so like, let's just be clear. So you guys are saying that you're not going to mention this. And if it gets mentioned, so this is the key part, okay?

So you've got to prep them. So here's the other thing. Okay, so like here's a tip for narcissistic family members. If you want to deal with like, not just narcissism, but just generally speaking family members, you got to treat them kind of like kids in terms of like giving them warnings, right? So like when I'm dealing with my kids and it's like time to go in 15 minutes,

if it's time to go and I walk over and I turn off the television or like I take away the iPad, the kids throw a fit. They're like, ah! But if I tell them, hey, in 15 minutes, we're going to turn off the iPad. And the kid's like, yeah, okay, whatever. In 10 minutes, we're going to turn off the iPad. It's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. In five minutes, we're going to turn off the iPad.

They're like, yeah, whatever. And then when I actually take it away, they still like throw a little bit of a hissy fit, but they sort of get it because they saw it coming. You got to give them a chance to see it coming. You got to let them see the reaction coming. So in terms of setting the limit about don't talk about marriage, what you do, as you say, so just to be clear,

you guys are agreeing to not talk about this, right? And then the parents are like, yes. And so then this is you say, okay, so if it gets talked about, y'all will understand why I'm not coming home for Christmas. So just let them know there's going to be a consequence to their behavior. Let them see it. Don't spring it on them after they scroll.

screw up. Oh, I'm sorry. We didn't know. No, because then you get back to square one. Do you all get that? Like, if you spring the punishment on them after they screw up, which they're going to do, then it's like they're going to be mad at you again. They're going to be like, oh, give us another chance. Like, give us another chance. Like, oh, we promise we won't do it this time. Like, we just made a mistake. Like, just not this time. Like, right? So you've got to let them know. So you're going to say, okay, so just so we're all on the same page, I'm going to come home for the holidays. You guys are not going to mention the marriage stuff. And if you do, you'll totally understand why I'm not coming home for Christmas. Right? So then, like, we don't need to have this discussion again.

Let him know what's coming down the pipeline. That's how you set a boundary. Right? You say, like, hey, here's the boundary. I'm going to play this game with you, but if you cross it, there are going to be consequences. And you let them know what the boundary and the consequences are ahead of time. Does that, is this is very important. How to set boundaries 101. Right? It's not a threat. It's not even a, it's just like, this is law, right? It's not, it's a law of physics. If this gets talked about, don't expect me for Christmas. And then when it gets talked about, which it inevitably will, don't, once again, don't attack, don't articulate, I mean, you want to articulate, right? So you can say, hey, I thought we agreed not to talk about this. And if they like, they're like, oh, yeah, we're sorry.

And then don't say anything else, right? And then, like, you can decide afterward. Because now, you've like now that you've like set them up like so now you've got a reason you can say hey i'm just going to like take a pass on christmas you know just like tell them like you don't have to tell them there i wouldn't tell them right then i would wait till thanksgiving is over and see if they continue to respect the boundary if they do you can sort of be like hey i know you all like i appreciate that you guys brought it up and i brought it up with you and then you guys like steered clear of it thank you very much um i know that like y'all care about me and stuff like that so that's totally fine. You know, if you guys, if like, if we can keep this up, that actually made the

experience a lot more enjoyable for me. I'm happy to come home for Christmas if we can keep this up. And then if they did, if they don't continue to respect your boundary, then you could say, yeah, afterward, you can be like, hey, I sort of had fun, but, you know, I kind of like, we discussed something and we weren't going to talk about like marriage and stuff like that. And you guys kind of like didn't respect that. So I'm not going to be coming home for Christmas, like we discussed. Just let them know ahead of time. and just boom, right? Does that make sense? So, just to kind of summarize a couple of things. So the first thing is, if you don't want to go home for the holidays, ask them to articulate your

perspective first. Ask them, what do you think my experience is like? That's going to be engaging their empathic circuitry, getting them to think a little bit about it, right? Don't attack them. whatever they come up with, they may result in denial or like whatever, like, just tell us whatever. They'll like try to like fast forward the conversation at the end. They're like, I don't know how to play this game. Let's get to the game. Just tell me what I need to say and I'll say it and then just come home because I want you home to get my emotional needs met because I'm your parent and I love you. Right.

They're not coming from a bad place, hopefully. Let's assume not. So ask them to articulate your perspective. Whatever they do try to hypothesize, repeat it back to them, especially if they give you, denial or like it's not our fault and things like that. And so you can kind of like you can sort of make it not really an attack, but you're just pointing out to them what they're saying. So you're saying, oh, it's not my fault. So since it's not your fault because it's driven by love, what I'm hearing from you is that I can't really expect that to change at all, right? Because you're never going to

stop loving me, which I appreciate. And this is just how your love is going to manifest. So I basically have a choice between like coming home and dealing with this or not coming home and then not dealing with it. It seems like the choice that I have to make is like the two are tied together. So if I don't want to hear that, the only solution I've got is to not come home for the holidays. So lay it out for them. Whatever they tell you, you're going to just jiu-jitsu at the Aikido up in here, okay? Whatever they throw at you, you're just going to throw right back at them in a non-emotional, non-confrontational way. Hey, let's just get on the same page about what are the rules of the game. And as you pointed out to them, they're going to panic, they're going to start promising.

That's when you lay the boundary. You figure out what's my boundary. if your boundary is not respected you can give them feedback right then and there but that's usually comes across as emotional or you can give them feedback afterward that can be far healthier so once you've calmed down emotionally like the next day be like hey y'all ask me a couple questions about marriage i just wanted to understand is that something that y'all are going to continue to do because i was under the impression we talked about this and you know you all had sort of agreed not to yeah but but we just care so much and we're so we're so worried and you're so handsome and they're all these wonderful and we know that but and we know and we love you and but yeah right and so then you're

going to articulate back and you can say okay fine i understand that it's going to be hard for you understood and then if you get up and leave if you're like yeah yeah you broke you promise you broke that purpose. Me. I'm leaving. Me. Me. Then what's going to happen in their mind?

They're going to think, oh, my God. He's so, he's hurting so much on the inside. He needs love. We don't have to respect him because he's acting emotionally and like a child. You know? He's like, oh, like, so they're not going to take you seriously if you act emotionally. So you can say, okay, fine. So you ride out the rest of the holidays.

Heaven knows that you've ridden out so many so far. And then after it ends, you just circle back and say, hey, like, you know, we talked about this, I mentioned it to you again, and y'all basically said that, like, because it's so important to you, you're going to bring it up and you're not really interested in, like, what my perspective is. So if I don't come home for Christmas, now you understand why. Right? So you can leave an if there, if you want to. You don't have to, like, punish them then and there. You can just say, like, okay, I now understand that any time I come home, like, this conversation is going to be had. And if I try to tell y'all to not talk about it, I basically am going to get ignored, which is fine.

So then I just have to make the decision about whether I want to like, if I really don't want to have the conversation, then I just won't come home, which is totally cool. They're like, oh, no, no, no, we didn't mean it. We promise we'll change. You'll be like, okay, we had that conversation last time, though. Easy. So I'll just let me like stew on it and I'll let you know whether I'm coming home for Christmas. Okay. So if the boundary isn't respected, you can give feedback either in the moment or later. And the main thing is to let them see the consequence coming. And like, as long as you remain like, set in yourself, manage your own emotions, don't expect too much, lay a boundary, let them see the consequence coming. Over time, so one person saying adults will never change, I completely disagree. So they will change. And I've seen that time and time and time again. The problem is

that we are just not educated in how to get adults to change. Right? We're not like, we're just like operating, like think about how do you approach family situations? Like, How, like, where is the wiki on family situations? Where is the walkthrough on family situations? Where is the class on, like, how to deal with family situations? Where is the class on, like, how to manage your emotions? Right? So, like, so I don't blame you for believing that adults will never change.

Because let's be honest, the majority of times, that's true. And yet, just because. you know, no human is ever flown doesn't mean that no human will ever fly. It just requires the right kind of technology. So what we're offering y'all is an interpersonal technology. That if you learn how to use properly, it is our hope that you will start to change the relationships in your life. And it's not your fault. You're not stupid or anything. And it's kind of not their fault because they weren't taught either. Do you all get that? Like they didn't, like the reason they can't answer the question, what is your understanding of my experience is because their empathic

circuits haven't been developed, right? Does that make sense? So like we want to have compassion for them. I mean, we're kind of meming them a little bit. But that, by the way, is to validate your emotions if you guys haven't figured that out. Right? We don't actually think your parents are bad. Like, the goal of this is to try to make things work. Okay. As, as Ikego is saying, they didn't know better. Absolutely. All right. So that's if you don't want to go home for the holidays. Okay? What if they still feel attacked and get defensive?

We'll get to that in a second. All right? We'll get to that with the narcissism. Where do I buy this flying technology? It's right here on stream for the low, low price of $0.0.0. All it costs is two hours of your time. Okay. So the second thing is how to challenge tradition.

All right? So I'm going to give you all a scenario and we'll sort of see like the narcissism coming out. You guys see what I mean now? Like it's just like I want to like give you guys like good scenarios that we can see like the defenses and stuff start to come out. Okay. So how to challenge tradition. So this is the tradition that I'm going to use. All right.

So like I don't know about y'all, but in my family generally speaking for the holidays, the women will cook and clean, which is like quite a endeavor. Okay, so it involves like grocery shopping a day or two before. The preparation of cooking and the marinating of things and whatever like the day before. And then like, you know, you start cooking at like 8 a.m. in the morning and it's like a marathon thing because we're going to like do a wonderful meal. And then the men in my family tend to just hang out, right? So oftentimes there is football involved or cricket or whatever. But there's just this very like simple like dynamic of like, like, The women cook and clean, and, like, the men just kind of sit around.

And I don't want to get into... I'm not trying to make this about, like, gender or the patriarchy or, like, women being oppressed or things like that. Like, it's not my place to kind of pass judgment on that. I mean, I'm going to, I'm going to sort of pass judgment, but not from, like, a political way. It's just, like, that's not really, like, fair. So I think that some of this stuff, if we kind of think about the origins, you know,

I think this sort of made sense when, like, gender roles, were a little bit more clear, right? So, like, maybe 50, 60, 70, 80 years ago, 100 years ago, men had a pretty particular, like, role, which is that they left the house and they, like, hunted or chopped wood or worked. And then women would sort of take care of the home, right? This is, like, the traditional, like, 100-year-old sort of gender role divide. And even that, at that point, I don't, I don't know if women did more, you know, less work than women. I'm sure that someone out there more educated than I am will be able to give me an answer to that. But I think at that point it was about a division of labor where like men worked and women manage the household.

And so I think that even in the sense, like that tradition was probably understandable or came from somewhere because it evolved, right? So it like evolved for a reason. And chances are that like the reason that it evolved that way was because of that division of labor. So like if, you know, if the man was planning like a work event, I would imagine that they would do the heavy lifting for that, but maybe not. I don't want to get this into gender dynamics, but I do want to sort of acknowledge that there are traditions which may be unhealthy or unfair to some people. This is the one that I'm going to use because it's the one that I understand the best. It's the one that I grew up with.

And it's the one that I think a lot of people can relate to. So that sort of used to work because like women didn't used to have jobs, right? But now like women have jobs. So the division of financial labor tends to be like more even than it used to be. But our traditions, right, because their traditions seem to be lagging behind. So if you were like in my household, you would see what I saw, which is that, you know, my dad was a doctor and he worked more than my mom. And my mom was a doctor. So they were both practicing physicians. My dad probably worked on average five hours more per day than my mom did. Maybe even more because he would oftentimes like work Saturdays as well. So he may have worked like 30 hours more per week than my mom, even though they were both practicing physicians. But what I sort of noticed is that like on balance my mom did more than 30 hours of like housework. work per week. And that includes like picking us up and dropping us off and going grocery shopping and like all that kind of stuff. So, you know, if you're in this kind of situation, how do you challenge

this sort of like dynamic? So this is where once again, if you criticize it, which may be fair. So like if you get like emotional about it and you criticize it, you're like, er, the patriarchy and like women are oppressed. Like you can say that and I think you've got a valid argument, but I don't think you're going to win any points in a family situation. Like, I don't think that people are going to walk away from that and be like, you know, oh, you're right. Like, this should change. I think what's going to happen if you start, like, criticizing them is they're going to

feel attacked. When they feel attacked, they get defensive. And when they get defensive, they're going to call you a bitch. Right? They're going to, that's what's going to happen. So I'm not saying that that's, even that is fair. I'm not saying that your criticisms aren't legit. But what I'm saying is, like,

like it's easier to catch more flies than honey than it is with vinegar. Like, that's my style, right? And that's what happens. So if you've got a traditional family structure, like, that's how you're going to be received and be judged. So here's the first thing. So if you were a dude and there is an unhealthy tradition, you should like do what you think is right. So act in accordance to your Dharma. So like when I, so this is something that I do now, right, which I'm sure that once again, I'll give you guys an example. But so like, I, I, try to help out during holidays because I remember, so what would happen in my household is like, we would have a big holiday and my brother was older and I was younger. And so therefore, for some

reason, I fell into the women's camp. And so my brother got to chill, but I got to like, I had to like cook and clean all day. And I was like, what the F is this? Like, why, like, so somehow, like, subconsciously, my mom, like, put me in the role of a daughter because she didn't have a daughter. She needs someone. So, like, I guess it's the younger kid is the daughter. So I had to like cook and clean all. I was like, this is BS. Like, F this. Right. My brother helped out too and stuff like that.

But, you know, it just felt really unfair to me. So now, so if you're a dude and there's an unhealthy tradition, here's how you challenge it. So if you're the man in this situation, I would go and help out in the kitchen. And this is going to create all kinds of problems. Right. So then, like, what's going to happen is like you're going to start helping out. And then like the other men in your family are going to be like, oh, like, stop doing that. Ha, ha, ha.

That's woman's work. Loll. and we mean that is a joke. It's clearly not women's work because we know that gender equality and all that. But ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Right? So if you start helping out like what's going to happen?

Like even if you don't say anything, here's the thing. You don't need to say anything. You don't need to be like, this is unfair. This is a relic of the patriarchy. And down with whatever. Blah! Then they're going to just write you off as like some crazy political person, right?

Instead, just let your actions do. the talking. You're not going to criticize anyone. You're not going to say that anything that they're doing is wrong. Right? You just act in accordance with your Dharma. So you go and you help out. You go to the women. You say, hey, what can I do? You want me to pick up this? You want me to do this. You want me to do this. At some point, someone's going to excite comment on it, right? And this is when, once again, you want to articulate. You don't want to attack, but you're going to attack. People are going to feel attacked. You're not going to expect much from them. You're going to manage your own emotions. and if you're like me, this will happen.

Well, someone will start making fun of you. And they'll be like, what? Do you like, are you doing women's work? And so my response would be, you know, Thanksgiving is about gratitude. And like, I really appreciate all the work that they're doing. So this is the way that I show my gratitude. And then you just walk away and continue helping in the kitchen. And then people are going to be like, well, fuck.

Right? Like, how do they argue against that? So this is where, like, if you guys, want to like, don't tell people that they're doing bad things. Just articulate instead of attack. Hey, all y'all fuckers should not be sitting on the couch. This is unfair. Don't do that.

Right? You just act in accordance with your Dharma. You articulate why you're doing it. And then even if they continue making fun with you, like, because they don't know what to, like, people don't know how to respond to that, right? Like, because people don't say shit like that. Which is exactly why you guys need to learn how to say it. So like you just say like this is the way that I show my gratitude You're not saying hey and they're like what you don't so this is what's going to happen like they're going to feel attacked right

So they're going to come at you and they're going to be like look what you don't think we're grateful and you're like hey I never said that I'm sure you show your gratitude in whatever way is appropriate to you this is just how I show mine I'm not judging you you do you bro right so like roll with that resistance don't attack don't articulate say I never said that Now, if you want to go on the attack, you can be like, how do you show your gratitude, bitch? You ungrateful, oh, I raised you. And you're like, cool, I'm grateful for that. So they attack you. And they're like, oh, I raised you.

Like, I can't believe you're so ungrateful. And you're like, bro, that's why I'm not sitting on the couch and fucking watching football and I'm cooking you a pie. It's my way of showing gratitude. What are you getting mad at me for? Right? So, like, you stay aligned with your Dharma. And you just like, throw it back at him. And you're like, if you think,

look, why the fuck am I making a pie for you? It's because I'm grateful. And then like, they can't, they'll, they, it's, you're gonna, you're gonna, it's a chaos. That's like the advantage of living in accordance with your Dharma. You guys get that? Okay.

Excellent question. What to do if you were a woman? Moving on. So, if you were a woman and you're unhappy and you think this is unfair, get people to articulate, right? Let them lay the trap, themselves. So you talk to ideally another woman or man. Like so you talk to your parents, let's say, let's say you're the daughter of the family. So you talk to your parents and say,

hey, I'm thinking about coming home for Thanksgiving. Help me understand what I should expect. Get them to say it. What's going to happen? Like, what should I expect? We're trying to plan. And then your mom will be like, well, we're going to start cooking like on Wednesday morning and we'll serve dinner on Thursday afternoon. And so then, so like, just like, so I'm coming with my husband, let's say. And so what is he going to be doing for 24 or 36 hours? Just get him to articulate it.

They're going to be like, he's going to be hanging out with your dad. Okay, like, what am I going to be doing? You're going to be in the kitchen fucking cooking and cleaning. And so then you can articulate it to them. So you can say, okay, so just so I understand this, mom and I are going to be cooking and cleaning for about, 36 hours, and then my husband is going to be like just kind of hanging out, and they're going to be relaxing. And so then this is where, like, your parents are going to be like,

this is where the defense has come out. Y'all ready? It's tradition. Oh, better, it's tradition. It's okay. It's tradition. Now, sometimes, like, if you end up doing well, like, I've seen this happen before where like the dad is sort of like, oh, wow, like that's actually insane. So if you just like talk to people without sort of attacking them, sometimes they'll realize and they'll be like, yeah, that's kind of fucked. And so, you know, maybe like I've seen this before where dads will be like, we'll just order out because it's not really fair for y'all to be cooking and cleaning. And then what'll happen? We'll get to this. I don't know if we're going to get to this today, but then there's an enabler.

This is the flip side to the narcissistic family member. And this is why we got to go through the scenarios first. is the enabler, where dad's like, we can just order out. And who's going to screw you in that situation? Huh? Who's going to screw you? You're making so much progress. Things are even.

Mom. Mom is going to screw you. Oh, no, honey. We don't have to do that. It's our way of showing love. Right? Because then there's all kinds of things that happens in mom's mind, and this isn't her fault,

because she's been culturally condemned. that on Thanksgiving, you don't order out. Like, what the... Right? Like, that's the antithesis of Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is about showing your gratitude and love by laboring away in the kitchen. Like, what kind of reject grandma or mom? Like, orders pizza for Thanksgiving. Like, that's a failure. Like, we've been societally conditioned to think that women will be failures if they don't cook for Thanksgiving. Y'all get that? And so mom's going to sandbag you. She's going to torpedo because she's going to feel bad.

So this is where if you really want to, this is really getting to the next level. But you got to like deal with that guilt, right? So mom's feeling guilty. She's feeling like she's letting you down. And so you got to be like, okay, so mom, if you really want to do that, I know it's kind of weird. But this is where you've got a couple of different plays. But one is you can just accede to that and say like, you know, okay, if you really want to cook, like we can do that if that's really important to you. And that's where like once again, you're acting in accordance with your Dharma because you're,

you're sort of like, you're taking one for the team, right? You're doing it to help your mom feel better, but you know that dad's on your side. And so maybe then you have a second conversation with your husband or your dad and say like, hey, like, you know, mom is like the one who's like sacrificing all this time for our benefits. So like we should all help out or let's do something nice for her. So that's another thing that you can do like, you can like go out of your way to really make them feel appreciated. Right. So you can do things that let's mom sort of be a good woman in her mind because that's the way that she's been conditioned. Or even it's not conditioning.

That's sort of like actually kind of condescending. She may actually value that, right? Like that may be like what she views is her dhartharmat. This is something that I want to do for my family. So it's actually quite condescending for us to assume that she's conditioned. Oh, she can't think on her own. She is a woman. She has been conditioned by the patriarchal society.

Like that's actually really fucking condescending now that I think about it. Right? So maybe that's just how she does her Dharma. And so it's just about sort of having that conversation. And, you know, like, you could sort of see where, like, where that conversation goes. So maybe it is ordering out. Maybe it is, like, you know, having a conversation then with your husband or dad about, hey, we're going to chip in and we're all going to help.

Or we're going to do something super awesome for mom. Like, we're going to do something for mom that, like, repays the karmic debt that she is doing for us. Okay? and if you're a spouse, so this is the third scenario we're going to talk about, this one is arguably the most challenging, because you have a lot of power in the other two. The third one, this is the hardest, is if your in-laws have an unhealthy tradition and you're the spouse of someone else. So this is like, if you're the wife, your husband's family has all these like traditions that you think are unhealthy or unfair, and you are like, you know, it's like one v-five kind of situation. situation. Because like your your spouse has grown up with these traditions so they think it's normal. Like the in-laws are doing it. Like you have to maintain some kind of like, you know, relationship with your in-laws. So you don't want to be like one of these like spouses who's like a bitch to deal with, you know? And I don't mean that from a gender standpoint. I mean just like

just a general word. And so like that's where you have to have a conversation with your your spouse about, hey, like what do you think about these traditions? Right? Get them to articulate. Like what am what are you signing me up for when we go to your parents house for thanksgiving like what are you signing me up for and what are you signing yourself up for also you can attack a little bit when it comes to your spouse because they're your spouse and it's like you know no holds and or holes bar you know so it's like it's your spouse so go for it so just have a have a conversation and you know like like just kind of get people to articulate it so um that that's kind of okay i'm i'm I'm assuming that you can have a conversation with your spouse.

Okay, so questions about challenging traditions. Okay. Let's move on narcissistic family members, all right? Okay. So I use the term narcissistic, but that's not really, that's not really fair. But so what we're going to talk about now is like family members who are like emotionally manipulative, and we're going to lay out their move set. Okay? So like, we're going to like put ourselves, like, imagine you're like trying to fight a boss and dark souls. And like, you have to

understand what their move set is in order to like see their different attacks and like how to dodge it. So we're almost going to like give you a like a boss fighting guide for like the narcissistic family members. So they've got a couple of good moves. So you got to be careful. Okay. The first is that they're emotionally manipulative. So the way that they get their needs met is through provoking particular reactions out of other people. So that's move number one. Move number two is they make you responsible for their behavior. They do this weird like mind meld psychic thing where they make you responsible for their

behavior. So a good example of this is like let's say that, let's say that you make a dish for Thanksgiving and your cousin makes a dish for Thanksgiving. And you make a dish that's better than your cousins. And your cousin notices that and they feel hurt. And so then your cousin is like, okay, fine. If no one wants to eat my dish, I'll just eat it all because I don't want it to go to waste. And they're like sacrificing themselves by eating this crappy dish that they've made.

And they like, they like go and they buy a cross from the grocery store and then they start lugging it around. Okay? You guys get what I'm saying there? that they make you responsible for their actions. And then everyone feels bad. Right? So they like... And then like suddenly their choice

to eat crappy food is like somehow your fault. It's like, no, they don't have to eat their crappy food. They can eat the good food that you made, but they're somehow like making you responsible for their stupid choice. Right? And so it's martyrdom.

So they like, like, go find this cross somewhere and they start lugging it around. So other examples of this are people who like will go on like hunger strikes, right? So you see this a lot, like this was like acting out kind of behaviors where, you know, like if you say something, like if you point out, let's say, let's use our earlier example of unhealthy traditions that you challenge, right? And then like your dad gets offended because you point out that he doesn't do anything, whereas your mom works a lot. And then he gets hurt. So then what he does is like, you know what? If you don't feel like I'm like doing it,

I don't have to eat any of the food. I'll just get McDonald's. You guys, can cook whatever and I won't touch it because I'm not helping making it, right? So you don't want me to eat it, right? Because you think that's unfair and I'm taking advantage of your mother. I'm just going to order takeout. Then you guys can have this luxurious meal and I'll make myself a sandwich. I'll eat a bowl of cereal. Right?

You guys know what I mean? So they somehow, like they like make you responsible for their stupid behavior. So in the most extreme situations, usually this doesn't happen at Thanksgiving. but another example of this is if you don't break if you break up with me if you leave me I'm a kill myself and it's going to be your fault I'm going to commit suicide if you ever leave me right so it's like you making like it's very emotionally manipulative so it's holding you responsible for their behavior now why does this work so much in family situations it's because in family situations

there's going to be one weak link okay so in an individual relationship like let's say you're in a controlling relationship where someone is holding you emotionally hostage and they say if you break up with me I'm going to kill myself all you really have to do

I'm not saying that that situation is easy but all you really have to do is like you have to make the decision to hold the boundary you just have to break up with them and then you're out right you just have to get one person to hold the line it's one v1 the problem with families is that you have to get a bunch of people to hold the line.

So if your dad is like, oh, I'm just going to eat a sandwich, that's fine. I won't touch the turkey. I won't touch the pie. I won't touch the stuffing. I won't touch the salad. Then what's going to happen is if you're okay with that, you're like, okay, so like I made it. It's there for you to eat. So that's the right move, right?

So we'll get to that in second. You say like, it's right here. I made enough for you. If you don't want it, we can throw it away at the end of the night. It's your choice. Right? just give it right back to them. Like be like, okay.

Like, look, dad, whatever you want to do. If you feel more comfortable eating like a bowl of cereal when we've made this food, that's totally fine. We can pack it up for leftovers, donate to the homeless, or we can throw it away. Like, whatever you prefer. Right? So you like empower them. So this is the counter move to them making you responsible for their behavior.

You push it back. You say, no, no, no, I'm not responsible for your behavior. You're responsible for your behavior. You push that responsibility back over there. Say, whatever you want, dad. whatever makes you happy. If that makes you more comfortable, remember, do your Dharma. Like, Dad, I'm here to make you happy.

So I've made this for you because, you know, it's available. But if you don't feel comfortable eating it or you feel it's unfair, like, I'm okay with that too. I'll make sure it doesn't go to waste. And then what is he supposed to say? Like, weh, mah, mah. But that's hard to do is one person because someone there is going to do what? Chat? You say that.

And then what does mom say? What does brother say? What do they say, huh? Yeah, don't do... Oh, don't do that. No, no, no, no, no, honey. Like, no, please eat the food. Please eat the food.

Please. Please. We made it with so much love. Please. Oh, I know that you're acting like a little bitch, but if I'm extra nice to you and I turn into a dormat, would that make you feel better? Does your ego need some stroking?

Do you need us to know how much we love? you and how much we care about you. Did little the baby have a boo-boo for his ego? Or not poor with the baby. Don't eat the sandwich with the baby. Oh, not with the baby. I love you so much with the baby. Please eat the food.

Please. Don't make me... Don't hurt Mama. Oh. Right? That's what happens. No boundary setting. One person caves.

There's a problem with families. One person's going to cave. And this is why the narcissistic person gets to where they are. Because this behavior gets tolerated over time, right? Because like someone is going to cave. Because then what they'll start to do if you're not careful is they'll start to escalate. You know, like, they're like, okay, I'm going to eat cereal. And then y'all are like, okay, bro, you do you.

And they're like, hey, that didn't work. Because then they're like, I'm not hungry. I'm not going to eat at all. And they're like, and then like, oh my God. So what they do is they like, they're trying to break the line, right? And they're going to start escalating. And they start to get really upset. And then if no one's like, oh, no, no, no, please eat, please eat.

Please eat. If no one does that, then they're like, they're not going to say screw you because they know they're in the wrong. That's what's so hard about this is like, this is a grave that they've done for themselves. And they're jumping into it and they're like whining when no one is letting them, like helping them out. Even though like they can climb out on their own. like a one foot grave and they're staying like you just stand up and step out it's like one step but they're like no right and so they can try to escalate and you have to be careful because generally speaking like the family will crack at some point and so this is also where you see the enablers mantra okay so

if you want to understand who is enabling within your family it is this phrase that's just how they are that's just how they are you know uncle billy he just likes fondling little boys that's just how he is you know boys will be boys that's just that's just how they are

so that is the response of an enabler right seriously that's just how dad you know how dad is you know he's not going to eat unless we do this

and it's like think about that statement for a second. You are now responsible for their eating. Like how the hell does that work? Like unless you do particular things like your dad isn't going to eat? Like what the hell? You guys get that? That's absurd. But like when you have an emotionally manipulative person in the family, that's what they do. They like train other people to be responsible for their crappy behavior. right and so then it's like it's sort of like well if i'm not going to eat it's your fault if you were nicer to me if you hadn't brought up all this stuff and made me feel bad then you wouldn't have to deal with this but now you have to deal with this so what are you

going to do about it yeah yeah and i'm going to escalate if you don't like make my emotional needs met like i'm going to i'm going to hurt you because you hurt me so this is the other thing that they do so this is the like now like we've done a couple of movesets how to counter them. So now we have to understand, like, generally speaking, what's going on with this boss? So what's going on is that they have emotional needs that need to be met. And unfortunately, through conditioning or upbringing or whatever,

they have learned this is the way I get my emotional needs met. Okay? So they feel like, so now, now this is where, like, we have to tie in the other two examples. If something happens in the holidays that makes them feel hurt, They're going to engage in behaviors that cause other people to shower them with love. Do you guys get that? So like if I feel hurt, I can't process that on my own.

So I'm going to escalate and people are going to be like, oh, poor baby. Oh, little baby. Oh, I'm so sorry. And then I feel that love. So this is why these people are so freaking frustrating to deal with. because they artificially create situations that cause people to react and give them the emotional support that they need for an unrelated problem. So they can't say, hey, I felt ashamed when my son started helping out in the kitchen. And like, it made me realize, oh, man, like, I've actually been kind of a shit dad.

for like 10 years because I never help out at Thanksgiving. There's a lot of shame that comes up and comes with that. And that's really hard for me to process because now I feel bad about myself. The healthy thing to do is to like go to people and say like, hey, I feel like kind of a shame that I haven't helped out. Right? Because if you say that, like I never realize that like I should be helping out and like now I kind of feel like a dumbass. If you go to your family and you say that, like what is your family going to do? They're going to be like, no, it's totally fine.

and then like one or two things will happen so you got to watch out because there's an enabler move and then there's like a disabler move the enabler move. The enabler move is don't worry about it, honey, it's okay.

You don't have to feel that way and go sit down on the couch. That's the enabler move. The disabler move is cool. Can you help us out? Because then it's like you don't have to feel that way anymore and you fix the behaviors.

You've got to be very careful because that's sort of like, that's sort of like the end of the boss fight where you have to hit one button and if you hit the button right, the boss is defeated. But if you miss that window, they get like 30% of their health back. And they're like back to square one.

You got to watch out. Right? So that's in the wiki at the bottom. It's like the final phase of the boss fight. You have to do this mechanic, which if you don't know about, it's going to wipe your raid. Okay? So you got to be careful about that. But that's what you should do.

You should just like articulate your feelings about this problem. But like some people who are emotionally manipulative, and it's not their fault really. Because the reason they learn to do this is because people did this shit with them. right? Like your grandparents are like very manipulative and that's how they learned it. That's how they learned how to get their emotional needs met. And so this is where the, you know, picking up your cross comes from. Because if they feel hurt and they want to feel love, they'll create these other artificial situations which drive people insane. Like it drives the family like absolutely insane because everyone knows subconsciously that this has nothing to do with like, you know, the parent like,

oh, like you didn't get your tires rotated. I asked you to get your tires rotated. I can't believe you didn't get your tires rotated. It's so disrespectful. Don't you understand that your mom and I could die in that car if you didn't get your tires rotated? They just like unload on the sun because the sun is like helping out in the kitchen. It's like, what the hell?

Where is this coming from? And so it's very confusing for people, but like once a narcissistic person feels hurt, they're going to do one or two things. They're going to lash out at you, or they're going to guilt you into loving them. you guys got that? Does that make sense? So that's the narcissistic person. So just to kind of summarize, they're emotionally manipulative. They like to play the martyr. They make you responsible for their

bad behavior. And the reason that they do so well in families is because it's not just one person that they have to manipulate. They just have to find one chink in the armor. Right? Because here's the other thing. Like you guys want to know how good this is, like how good they are at this. So let's say, let's go back to the hunger strike, right? Oh, like, if you don't, if I didn't help out in the kitchen, I won't eat the food. And then there's like, I'm just, I'll make myself a sandwich. And then everyone's sitting at the table. They're sitting there defiant and completely neutral, not participating in a conversation with their baloney sandwich.

And everyone else is eating like turkey and pie and stuff like that. People like, hey, do you want some pie? And they're like, no. I didn't help make it. So I don't get to eat it. Right? They even give you some of that attitude. No. No, I don't deserve to eat that. I didn't help make it. And then what happens is one person cracks. They don't do it right there publicly. But after dinner, everyone goes to whatever. And then mom shows up and they're like, honey, please make this pie. I ate it with love. And then the parent eats it, right? He eats the pie. And then it's dad and mom in the kitchen eating pie by themselves, whereas everyone else is laughing and having fun out there. And that's when you're screwed.

the worst. Because then one person is there and then like the parent is like, oh, at least one person understands me. At least one person cares. Everyone else is so callous. Everyone else is so, oh my God, they're so callous.

I can't believe. At least I've got one person in this family who cares about me. And how did this whole thing fucking start? It started because other people were helping in the kitchen and you weren't. And somehow you end up feeling like the rest of the family is callous.

And then what happens is the rest of the family realizes mom snucked out a piece of pie. And then everyone in the living room feels like shit. They're like, you know, at the end of the day, like, how petty am I being? That like, I couldn't just encourage the dude to eat a piece of pie. Like, how heartless am I? That like, dad is just dad. And like, I should have just gotten him to eat a piece of pie. Right?

You guys get that? Like, that final thing is like, that's when you get K-Oed. Wiped and back to the bonfire, boys and girls. time to respawn. Because it's like, I can't believe they're so callous. And then everyone out there feels like an asshole. Because one person has shown compassion. Right.

And then everyone else is like, well, fuck. We should have shown compassion too. And then next Thanksgiving, what happens? Next Thanksgiving, the boss is stronger. And your equipment is busted because you lost that move. Like, you know, it's like it carries over. And so, like, then no one throws down with dad after that, right? It's not, oh, God, it's going to happen again.

And then it happens again and again. And that's when you end up with, that's just how he is. You know your dad. That's just how he is. How do you guys think people get that impression of a person? Because it happens over and over and over again. So just to summarize, if you're dealing with the narcissistic parent, our family member, recognize that at the core of it they want to be loved

and if you do anything that is perceived as an attack or they feel hurt, they will activate, right? It's like one of these bosses that's asleep. And how do you start the boss fight? You walk over and you're like charge slash and crit it in the face and then it like wakes up and it's like ah! And then once it activates by being like attacked in some way and it's not even that you're attacking it,

it's just like, hey, this is my way of showing gratitude. I'm going to help out in the kitchen, even though I'm a dude. It's my way of showing gratitude. They're like, ah, that's like a critical hit to the face for a narcissist. You guys get that? They're like, oh, my God, like, I've lost 20% of my health. Like, I'm going to enrage now. And I'm going to show you who's boss.

Hunger strike, go, hunger strike, move. The silent treatment, emotionally manipulative. All of these, like, modes start activating. And they look for chinks in the armor. They're going to find one person. They make you feel responsible for their behavior. And then suddenly whether, oh my God, can you think about how sad this is? Your dad did not eat a single bite for Thanksgiving.

And it's just because you were so egotistical. I can't believe you. How dare you? He didn't eat even a single bite. I can't believe you're like this. You know how he is? How dare you ruin Thanksgiving? Absolutely.

Right? Oh my God. you with your social justice like patriarchal oh my god and your dad didn't even eat a bite for Thanksgiving so that's how they work so how to deal with the narcissistic parent in short

okay I feel like we should this is probably enough for today but we'll think about the enabler and strategies to defeat the narcissistic parent the first thing is to recognize what's going on okay you just have to understand these dynamics the other thing is that the key to dealing with a narcissist

is if you can meet the emotional needs, then everything comes tumbling down. So all of the problems they create, all of the acting out they do, all of the victimhood and stuff like that is because they're hurting. All they're looking for is love. So all you have to do is give them love

and you can do it with a boundary. Right? You can say like, I know it's kind of weird, but you just have to like be nice to them basically. But don't play their game because you don't want to reinforce their behavior, you want to give them compassion outside of that thing. And so even if you're like playing with your dad

and like you guys do board games and they've thrown this hissy fit. I know it's kind of weird, but like even three hours before the meal if you're like, I want to be on dad's team. You know, like it's going to be like, it's going to be like dad and daughter versus like mom and son.

Let's go. Good job, dad. Like you did awesome. Man, this is really fantastic. I like what you've done with the place. Just like show them that you love them. And then, like, if they feel love, then they're kind of confused because they're like, they're feeling love and they no longer need to pick up the cross.

The other thing that you can do is like, I know it's kind of weird, but if you have a narcissist, ask them for help. That's the second thing that you can do. Because when you ask someone for help, you, like, elevate them into the role of, like, a helper who's powerful, right? And if they're powerful, like, they don't, like, it's hard to play the victim. So if you're the son in that situation, I'd go over dad and I'd say, hey, like, how did you feel about that conversation?

is going to be like, oh, it was totally fine. Like, you know, like, I don't have to eat the food. And you can be like, Dad, I think it would be really awesome if, like, we could all do this together as a family. Will you please come and, like, at least help out a little bit? Just ask them for help. And then, like, disarms the whole damn thing. They're not going to say, like, no, because what does that make?

And that makes them the asshole. You guys get their whole entire thing is to make you the asshole and them the victim. But if you create a situation where you allow them to be the hero, instead of the asshole, they're going to take it in a heartbeat. You guys got that? So ask them for help and give them like compassion. And that's how you do it. It's hard, but it's actually not, you know.

Someone's asking, isn't this just manipulation, though? I don't know. I'd call it education. Right? Because I think this is the key thing. Like manipulation, I think, is about an unhealthy end. What's the goal of all of this information? it's to create harmony during the holidays.

Right? And once we find a narcissistic family member, like, what's my answer about what you should do? Is treat them with love and then ask for their help. Like, you could call that manipulation, I guess. It's just playing the game on their level. Let's call it back. Right?

But do it like act in accordance with your Dharma. That's why like these techniques, you know, a blade, a sword isn't either good nor even. evil. It's what you use it for. Right? So like, I know it's kind of weird, but one of my supervisors once realized that I was like very good at this kind of stuff. And so she, in her final feedback for me, she was like, you did a great job working with me these past three months. I've one, one piece of feedback for you or one thing that you should do going forward. And I said, what is that? She's like, use your power for good instead of evil. That was literally the feedback that

I got from like a 55-year-old or 50-year-old psychiatrist. She was like, use your power for good, not evil. I was like, all right, I will do that. If you tell me to, fine. Right? And so I think it's just a technique. The question is, what are you using it for? I'm not suggesting that you use these techniques to start a crypto coin and manipulate people into investing.

I'm not suggesting you use these techniques to create a monetization structure for a video game. I'm suggesting that you use these techniques to create more harmony and peace within your family structure over the holidays so that you can survive your holidays if you need to. You can set healthy boundaries with your parents so that you retain your own sanity and you educate them and help them understand how to be a functioning family unit. Right? That's why we're doing it. But do you call it manipulation? Yes. And I think the other big problem about that term, if we think about it, is this goes back to. like why we're not taught this stuff in the first place. The fact that like interpersonal skills gets labeled as manipulation is like absolutely insane. The only people who practice this stuff are con artists.

Like that's the whole problem. Is that everyone should learn this stuff. It's interpersonal relationships. Right? So like even as a psychiatrist, like I do this stuff with my patients, but it's not like to, you know, be nefarious with them. It's like holding healthy boundaries. So, for example, if I have a patient who's chronically late for appointments, they show up 20 minutes late, I still stop on time because I have another patient. Or even if I don't have another patient, I still stop on time. Because it's like when they're like, you know, like, is that manipulating? It's like shaping behavior, absolutely, because I've seen the opposite, which is that when you let your patients show up late, they're going to show up late. If there's no cost to them, they're going to show up late. So this is kind of bizarre. So at one point in my practice, 70% of the people in my

my patient panel was free. I didn't charge him a penny. Okay? And guess who never showed up? What do you guys think like my, my, you know, show up rate was for people who paid to see me versus people who got it for free?

People who pay show up. Absolutely. Hey, Yiverr, good to see you, man. Right? So I had something like a 95% attendance rate for my, paying clients, maybe even higher, and something like an 80% attendance rate for my free clients. Sure. So Stoinky Goil is saying, I'm chronically late because of ADHD. That's totally fine.

I had patients with ADHD too. And they actually tended to be pretty good about it. Because like they like, if you value it, like it works pretty well. And that's where as a psychiatrist, you've got to be understanding, right? So if someone like skips two sessions, like if someone is usually attending and then skips two sessions and it turns out that they're depressed, like you have to be compassionate towards that. I'm not saying that I'm firing people from my practice left and right, but setting good boundaries helps them. So like creating a situation which an ADHD patient that like sort of helps them deal with their ADHD and also like doesn't let their ADHD run wild is like really important. It's actually therapeutic for them to try to hold some

kind of limits. So sometimes with my ADHD patients, I would even do things like, okay, so you have a 4 PM appointment and I actually have an hour long. break. So like if I know that I've got an ADHD patient who sometimes runs late and stuff, I'll do things like send them a reminder at 3 o'clock and be like, hey, you're going to make it for your 4 p.m. And they'll even say like, oh, I'm running late. And I'll be like, okay, 415, no biggie. Let's, I'll push my next, I'll hold the slot until 515. So you should absolutely accommodate. That's the tricky thing about, you know, being a psychiatrist is that you have patients who fundamentally are going to have challenges with like showing up on time. Either they'll be depressed,

they'll be high you know they'll have ADHD they'll be anxious so there are all kinds of things oh like I've had like I had a patient who had an addiction who was like very anxious and they were like I relapsed and I was terrified to tell you

so like even though I got sober like I couldn't like I was terrified of how you'd respond so they like didn't show up to the appointment when you like talked about it next week right it's sort of like bro like I get that you're terrified and like you know I want to have compassion for that but also like I deserve better. Right? Like, I spent a week worrying about you. I didn't know where you were. You weren't

answering my texts. Like, that's not fair to me. And so I know it sounds kind of weird, but like, that actually is very healthy. It's like respecting this person and saying, hey, you actually have agency. You have responsibility. You have an impact in the world. I understand you have anxiety, but like there are other people out there that could be affected by that. Right. And I think that's where I got the best outcomes, which is like, not like, oh, my poor baby. You have ADHD. That means you're completely incapable of anything. And everything is forgivable and acceptable. It's like, dude, I forgive you for it. But like, try to do better next time because I'm a person. You know? And I think that's when like, that's when my patients do really well is when you like,

it's kind of interesting. But in psychiatry, what's happening is where disempowering people by making excuses for them. So like, it goes back to, you know, something that I've heard several times, which is like, it's not your fault, but you're responsible. And I think that's like, like the best attitude. For all my patients in order for them to do well, I have to help them understand that they have power over their illness. And having power over their illness, in turn means having responsibility for their illness. So if you're like manic, so I once had a patient who took all their, was like adherent with bipolar treatment, went to an international conference to present a paper, during their period of jet lag,

their sleep got messed up and they became manic. I don't blame them an iota for that. Because kind of not their fault, right? Like they didn't realize that they didn't think about it. I didn't think about it. They kind of became manic because their sleep got messed up. Totally fine. Next time around though, it is their fault.

Right? So next time around, hey, I've got an international conference. Okay, let's think about this. Maybe you should go a day early so you can like adjust to your sleep schedule. Maybe what I need to do is prescribe you something. some sleep medicine so it helps you get on your circadian rhythm and doesn't trigger your mania. It is our responsibility. Yeah, they should take melatonin. Absolutely. Ooh, walls of corner. Irvin Yolam talks about this in this relational way to conduct therapy.

Sounds like we have a real student of the psychological sciences in chat. Ah, this is a great question. Okay, Dr. Kay, in case someone, me, has these manipulative actions, if you're the one doing the manipulating, how do we get better? fantastic question. So if you are the one who is the narcissistic family member, the main thing to understand is watch what you're, why you're doing what you're doing. So like when you start manipulating people, right, like understand what you're trying to get out of it. What's your end goal? And just pay attention to that process.

That's the first thing is to recognize that like, you know, if, for example, you feel ashamed. So another good example that I'll give you guys is, I once had a patient who, so two twin sisters, fraternal twins, okay, so not monozygotics, so not like genetically identical. They're around 25 years old. One of the twins is my patient. So they're both like pretty much the same through college, and then after college, one twin decides to get healthy. So she loses like 10 or 15 pounds, like starts to get super fit. starts to take care of herself. My patient lets herself go. So over the course of three years, like every, you know, because they like look alike, right? Because they're twins. And then over like the

next three years, like one of them is gaining weight and one of them is losing weight. And boy, does that create problems? Because it's sort of like, you know, like, so they go to Thanksgiving and then one, you know, their cousins and stuff will be like, oh, you look great. Like, what are you doing? Like you look like you're super in shape to her sister. They just don't say anything to her, right? They don't say, like, hey, you're fat. Like, she's not actually fat. And so then, like, my patient is, like, super, you know, does, like, all these, like, weird, toxic things.

And it turns out, like, I didn't even realize, but she's got all these other problems. Like, in her workplace and in her relationships and things like that with her parents. And the more we kind of talk about it, she's like, oh, my parents are so mean to me. My parents are so mean to me. They like this sister so much. They like the sister. They play favorites a lot. That was her chief complaint when she came in.

The more we talk about it, the more we talk about it, the more. or we're like, no, they don't actually play favorites. It's just you feel like less worthy than your sister. So what happens is there's a cognitive bias in her mind that like amplifies any kind of insult. Right. So it's not even an insult. It's just like, oh, like she'll come in after Thanksgiving and she'll say, my family ignores me.

And it's not that they actually ignore her. It's just like in that moment the sister sees, oh, they're complimenting my sister on her weight loss. And they're not saying anything to me. therefore I feel ignored, therefore I'm going to go complain to my psychiatrist that I am ignored. And so it's great. I mean, we worked on it for a while and we kind of challenge that, right? Like, why do you feel that way? Where does that come from? What happens? And the more that we tunnel down into it, I would ask her this question, when do you feel ignored? So this kind of goes back to like, what do you do about it? You notice the feelings as they arise.

Don't worry about fixing it or stopping the manipulative behavior. Don't worry about that yet. You have to understand where it arises. And the more that we understand where it rises, that's when we uncovered, oh, like, I felt it because my, you know, they complimented my sister. And then how, then I'd ask, like, how do you feel about them complimenting your sister? Well, like, she deserves it. And I'd be like, I'm confused. And I'd be like, what do you mean? She deserves it.

Well, she's like 30 pounds lighter than I am. I'm like, okay, well, tell me about that. And so then we uncover this story about how, like, her sister has been, like, taking care of herself. And then she, in turn, feels ashamed. Right. So then what she does is since she feels ashamed, she starts acting out. and manipulating people into helping her feel better. So she'll start, like, throwing tantrums and stuff like that.

She'll start, like, crying and, like, like, other things, like, very publicly, but trying to hold it in. And then when she starts crying, like, people, like, give her attention. And that that kind of creates conflict because, like, her sister is, like, you know, what are you doing? And so if you're the person who is doing the manipulation, understand that you have particular needs that need to be met. And for whatever reason, the way that you were taught or conditioned to have those needs met is by expressing these like hyperbolic things, for lack of a better turn. So you'll kind of create conflict or have like attention-seeking behavior. Another good example of this is something called parasuicidal gestures.

So like you have parasuicidal gestures like a good example of this. So there's a lot of research into why men kill themselves more often than women. So women attempt suicide more. Men kill themselves way more than women. So it's like four to one ratio of completed suicides for every one woman who kills herself, four men kill themselves. But for every one man who tries to commit suicide, it's arguable that maybe four women attempt suicide. So then when you kind of tunnel down into it, what you see is that there's a lot of parasuicidal gestures. So this is where like, I mean, it's not always this way, but women, for example, prefer overdoses.

Men like prefer firearms. So what will happen is a woman will say like, okay, so they'll take a bunch of pills and they'll text someone. And they'll say like, I'm saying goodbye. And then the person will be like, what do you mean you're saying goodbye? You're freaking me out. She's like, don't worry. You'll understand soon. They'll be like super like vague about it.

This is a paris suicidal gesture. It doesn't have to be a woman. And so they'll like do something that is suicidal, but like have a high visibility. of it. They'll let the whole world know. Goodbye, world. I'll see you tomorrow. Or I'll never see you again. I hope the rest of you have wonderful lives. And then like people will like rescue them.

So the attempt is low, lethality, high visibility. So if you talk to those people, why are they doing that? It's because they're trying to get an emotional need met. And sometimes people who just aren't taught how to articulate their feelings, the only way they've learned because when they were 15 or 16, they said, I want to kill myself. And then people started paying attention. Right?

It's not their fault. It's like this is a 15 year old who's been ignored for the last five years, abused. And they say, like, I want to kill myself because that's actually how they feel. They don't want to live this life anymore. And then suddenly everyone comes swooping in. And suddenly we care. Right? Like, suddenly we care if you're suicidal.

And that's the lesson that they learn. It's the only time people care is if you're suicidal. and that's how you get parasyuicidal gestures. Right? And then we get that sort of like even in relationships, oh, if you leave me, I'm going to kill myself. Because that's how that person has learned. That's how society and people have taught this person

how you can get your needs met. How can you guarantee that this person won't abandon you? Because what you're really afraid of is being left alone. You're afraid of abandonment. Well, I can get him to stay if I tell him I'm going to kill myself. Yeah. Hello? Yeah.

Who is it? Hi. What's up? Okay. Okay. Okay, you want to stay here with me? Okay. Hi.

Hi, love. Bye. Okay, Abby, you can say, can you play for a little bit by their serf? And then I'll come be with you in a little bit? Okay, love you. Okay. Thanks, darling. I love my kids.

What can I say? I'll scroll all the way down. So apparently, my wife and older daughter are going to the grocery store. The younger one and I are going to hang out. All right. Yeah, I just had a brain fart. So people are going to get their emotional needs met however they want to,

or however they need to. And if you're that kind of person, you know, that's okay. Just like understand. It starts with understanding how, what the need is that needs to be met. And yeah, I'm sure there's some relation to that. but I think yeah, I'm just thinking about my children now,

so I forgot what I was talking about. And right back to suicide. I can't think about suicide now. Okay, let's meditate, and then we'll figure out who to raid. How does that sound? Oh, my God. I don't even actually need to wear this.

I don't even why I've had that on the whole time. Okay, so we're going to teach you the how to survive holidays meditation. I gotta now just make that up real quick. Let's think about this. Let me think. Let me think. Okay.

So we're going to do a meditation that involves... Okay. We're going to do some abdominal meditation. We'll teach you guys something else on Friday. Okay? So we're going to do two chakra meditations. One is going to be like a processing your emotions in the moment while you're interacting with family members. and the second is going to be a meditation that's geared towards improving interpersonal relationships.

Okay. So this is going to be a Manipura chakra meditation. There we go. So that involves. So first thing that we're going to do is sit up. Okay? So we're going to sit up straight. Try not to swivel.

And then, oh no. Oh, no, chat. We're swiveling. Okay. So Manipura. A-N-I-P-U-R-A. So I want you all to sit up straight and close your eyes. Okay, this is going to be a little bit more of a guided meditation.

No chatting. Chat. Eyes closed. Okay, so we're going to put ourselves in the situation of your at your home for the holidays. And the stuff that pisses you off is pissing you off. Okay, whatever that may be. It may be that your cousins are making fun of you. It may be that one of your parents is throwing a temper tantrum.

It may be that your grandmother is asking you when you're going to get married because you're Indian. And all your life you've been told, no dating, no dating, no dating. And then suddenly it's when are you getting married and having kids? Why aren't you married yet? No girlfriend. Why aren't you married? Your cousin in India is married. So whatever it is, whatever is going on, that pisses you off.

So try to think about that, recall that feeling. What do they say that annoys you? Maybe you've got a career outside of medicine. Why don't you be doctor? Doctor is good. It is noble profession. But the reason we value is because of the financial. We all call it our noble profession, but we care about the money.

Right? Maybe it's politics. whatever it is, just call up, recall that memory, prepare mentally in your mind for that situation. And now what we're going to do is take a deep breath in and we're going to expand our belly out. So we're going to take that cool air and put it all the way down into our belly button.

And then as we breathe out, we're going to breathe out that heat and that tension. So feel that toxicity that swirls up inside you in your chest, in your throat, and how it creates tightness, anger, sweatiness. And as we breathe in, expand the throat, expand the chest, expand the belly, and then let it all relax. And as you let it relax, the recoil happens in your belly, the recoil happens in your intercostal muscles or chest, your throat relax, and you feel that hot air come out. That is the tension and the negativity.

So again, take a deep breath in. Feel the throat expand, chest expand, abdomen expand. And as you exhale, notice the transience of things. You can continue to breathe, expanding the throat, expanding the chest, expanding the abdomen. And feel that cool air envelop the inside of your body. and as you relax, notice the heat and the tension leave, that the tightness in your chest and the tightness in your throat is relaxing. And notice for a moment that all breaths come to an end,

that each inhalation stops and becomes exhalation, and that each exhalation stops and becomes inhalation. that any given sensation of opening of your throat or relaxing of your throat, of tightening in the chest or expanding the chest, of the belly moving out or in, all of these things are transient. And now say to yourself, this too shall pass, this too shall pass,

that all things that happen with your family will come to a close, that despite the whirlwind that is your family's holiday situation, despite all the tensions, the joys, the frustrations, the comparisons, the embarrassments, all of those feelings are transient. That if you need to, you can take a dip into this place within yourself. This too shall pass. You can continue the practice, expanding the throat. expanding the chest, expanding the abdomen, or you can let your breathing return to normal.

With a full inhalation in that moment, repeat to yourself, this shall pass. And as you expel all of the air out, repeat to yourself, this shall pass. In the spaces between inhalation and exhalation, find your stillness. and in that way, with all the ups and all the downs, in the in-between spaces, you shall also find your stillness. We'll practice for about another minute. And now let your eyes remain closed. Wiggle your toes, wiggle your fingers, shrug your shoulders a little bit,

stretch your neck, and let yourself start to return back to the world. and notice for a moment that the holidays may not be the best time, that there may be all of these dynamics going on, that they may be challenging for you to deal with, and have some compassion for yourself. They don't need to be fixed right away. You will survive whatever comes. You will enjoy whatever you can in what comes next.

And have some compassion for your family. That despite all the tension, despite all the difficulty, it isn't necessarily their fault that things are the way that they are. It isn't your fault that things are the way they are. And yet in the smallest way possible, try to take some responsibility. What can you change? What can you affect?

And as best as you can, have faith in your family, that if you start to treat them with compassion and start to articulate what is happening, as you raise awareness that they'll start to move in the right direction as well. It's fine to be skeptical, but try to cultivate within yourself a tiny amount of hope because at the end of the day, your family are probably decent people who are not always bad. So you can count on them too. It may just take a little bit of time.

With that, go ahead and come back and have a happy Thanksgiving chat.