HealthyGamerGG - Why You'll Never Trust Again

Episode Date: May 18, 2022

Today Dr. K talks about understanding the issue of broken trust, why trust is not an action, expectation, communication, and more! Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Trust is not something you can do. It's not a friggin' action. It's a state of confidence in another human being. It's a state of vulnerability. So this is where we see this kind of stuff when people end up in the friend zone. We're friends. Let me get you flowers for Valentine's Day as a friend, right? And then the other person is like, wait, are you sure this is just like a friend thing? Like this is kind of giving me weird vibes.

And then, no, no, no, don't have weird vibes. Anything but that. Don't retreat from me. I'm in love with you. So since I'm in love with you and I see you retreating, so absolutely as a friend. It feels like long-term relationship. relationships where you're doing all the work is because, first of all, you are doing all the work, so I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm not saying it's all in your head. So then like this person's like asking like, what do I do? And the good news is there's a lot of stuff you can do. So how do I stop being hyper-independent. 24M, due to childhood trauma and abuse, I've learned to depend on myself,

and by depend on myself, I mean wanting to do everything and anything on my own. For myself and those around me. I never want to ask for help, and when I do, I feel some sort of shame. Obviously, this unhealthy as excessive independence can lead to many problems, which include loneliness, burnout, loss of trust, and love in others. Feeling tired all the time, not being able to feel vulnerable around others, etc. I've always suspected that there's something wrong with the way I think of certain things when it comes down to independence. But now that I'm aware of this trauma response and I'm able to put a name on it, what should my next steps be? I understand that the gist of the advice is just going to be just trust people and watch how not scary it is.

But obviously, that's easier said than done. I want to pause here for a second and offer some thoughts. So the first thing is, like, I really want to commend this person for coming this far. Right. So this is like something that I'm really proud about this community at. Like, people are recognizing what's going on in them. They may not be able to fix it yet, but this is like, our community is like leveling up. and this post is a prime example of that,

where they've recognized, okay, I'm hyper-independent, it's leading to these things. So what we used to see a year ago, or even still today, depending on how long people have been in this community, is I'm lonely, I'm burnt out, it's impossible for me to trust. How do I fix my loneliness?

Whereas now people are sort of starting to realize, okay, this is because I've learned to depend on myself. This is a consequence of my upbringing. It's an adaptation. But how do I unadapt? right? And then this is also where we're seeing something that's really interesting, which is that a lot of people will give simple answers. I can't trust anyone. Just learn how to trust. Right? That's what the internet will say. Like, you've got to learn how to trust. Trust.

It's easier than that. Don't worry. How do I even trust people in the first place? When do I know when I need help? How do I depend on others? How do I deal with others when they let me down? How do I provide help without any strings attached? I sometimes have expectations for others to have my back like I did, but I often feel disappointed. I feel like there are dozens of other questions to ask, but I can't think of them right now. Totally fine, because these are all sufficient and enough and hard enough questions. These are fantastic questions. So hard to answer, though. In my head, I don't ever need help.

Pain goes away, things get learned on my own, and I can just power through. but I can't tell when I should power through something or just ask for help instead. I can learn stuff by Googling. I can experience stuff by researching and doing it myself. I can have fun on my own, et cetera, although that gets lonely and extremely tiring. This especially gets bad in long-term relationships. I just feel like I'm doing all the work as I don't accept much help. I don't know how to even accept help at this point.

And I kind of forgot how it feels to fully trust someone and have them help me at a satisfactory level without any feelings of shame or weakness linked to it. I've improved over the years as I've improved over the years as I've been recognizing my limits. Good job. And how others have their own experiences and unique outlooks. Also good job on situations that would teach me better than a simple Google search. Funny thing is that the Google search might lead to a forum which is filled with people's opinions and thoughts.

But I want to improve a lot more. I don't want to be hyper-independent anymore. I just want to trust people. I want to be able to let my next girlfriend through that big door I've locked for years. Fantastic post. So let's understand this a little bit, okay? What's going on here? So sometimes we don't really have too many details about it, but I think that's okay.

We don't need too many details about it. The person sort of says, due to childhood trauma and abuse, I've learned to depend on myself. Okay? So sometimes we grow up in situations where we lose trust in other people. And the reason we lose trust in other people is because we used to have trust in other people. And then our brain learned that trusting other people is not a good idea. Right? So like when you grow up in an abusive childhood or not even like overtly abusive,

your trust can be let down in subtle, subtle ways even by quote unquote loving or picture perfect parents. Right? This is the kind of thing where it, I mean, there's all kinds of. kinds of stuff, like where you can have parents who are very successful and want you to be the best. But when you share with them that you actually don't want to go to medical school and you want to become an artist, they look at you and they sigh and they shake their heads and they're like, I'm so disappointed. I don't understand you're ruining your life, all this kind of stuff. Like even stuff that, and they say this because I love you, you just have no idea.

I have more experience than you do. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, even like good parents can do this. Okay? So then, like, you're smart, right? So you figured out, I don't know how to trust people. I don't know how to accept help. And then what happens is, in my head, I don't ever need help.

The pain goes away, right? So, like, in those times where I don't ask for help, it hurts. It's extremely tiring. Burnout, right? Because you're doing it all on your own. So that leads to burnout and stuff. But eventually the pain goes away. Like, I'm resilient.

I'm a survivor. I've thrived, I've grown, I've become self-reflective, I've improved over the years, right? I'm going to learn things on my own and I can power through. I can, because here's the thing, I've learned that if I depend on other people, I often feel disappointed. But if I depend on myself and I'm hyper-independent, I never have to feel the shame or weakness of receiving someone's help. I never have to open myself up to the disappointment and betrayal of trusting someone. So I've got two options in life. I can either be completely independent, hyper-independent.

I love the phrase. Not rely on a damn soul, because here's the thing. I can do it. But it sucks. That's the problem, right? It sucks. I hate being lonely. I survive.

I even thrive and I grow and I improve. But it sucks. And that's absolutely true, right? Like, it's not about capability. It's about loneliness. It's about freedom. It's about not being exhausted all the time. And so then the question is, like, what do I do about it?

Well, I need to learn how to trust. This is a smart person. Right? So even you yourself say, I need to stop being so hyper-independent. I need to learn how to trust. If I can trust, if I can accept help, I need to learn how to accept help. Right? And the internet will say the same thing.

They'll say just, just try. trust people and watch how not scary it is. Like, I know it's going to be scary, but learn how to trust, man. Have faith in humanity. And humanity will accept you. Right? And then you learn to trust. Like, you have to put yourself out there.

Put yourself out there. That's the only way. You have to open yourself up to the pain. And I'm sure I've said that too. So here's the first thing to understand. When we recognize that we need to attain a goal, the goal is not the action. Okay?

So this person is saying, like, I figure this out, now what? What do I do? So here's the thing that I just want to explain very simply, okay? So it's like kind of a yogic perspective, but like I think it's true. But we just don't think about this in Western psychology quite as much. Trust is not something you can do. You all get that?

So people say just trust. Put yourself out there. Give love a chance. Give it a chance. Let people love you. Trust is not something you can do. It's not a friggin' action. Like, you can't trust people.

Like, you can say hi to people. You can, you know, ask someone to pick you up from the airport. But, like, trust is not a verb. Like, I mean, it sort of is a, I trust you. It is a verb. But it's not an action. Let's put it that way. Right?

Like, it's a state of confidence in another human being. It's a state of vulnerability. It is a verb. But it's not something you can. do. Like, it's not like, oh, yeah, I, I met these three great people at, at, you know, at the grocery store, and I trusted them for three hours. Like, we, I, man, dude, I had the best trust. I had the bet, you know, I'm so good, like, he's a professional truster. Like, that, it's not, that's not, it's not something you can do, right? It's kind of weird. And this is why, when people say just

trust, it's like, how? Because it's not something you can do. Okay? And we kind of struggle with that, right? So then, like, this person's, like, asking, like, what do I do? And the good news is there's a lot of stuff you can do. So this is where oftentimes when we're missing something in our life and we look at that as a goal, like, oh, like, I need to learn how to trust. And it's, like, way over there. What we're looking at is over there. But we're not, like, looking, like, over here. This is where we need to look. We need to look at the first step, not the last step. Because trust is, like, an emergent property. It's like flight. Like trust. is the distillation of all kinds of other stuff happening. You'll get that?

You don't just do it. It's not like I'm going to do 100 reps of trust today. Like, that's not how it works. Trust is a consequence of a lot of other things happening. And so when you're stuck in this situation of being hyper-independent, the question that's a damn good question is like, what's this down here? Like, what's the first step? And the answer, in short, is communicate.

That's what you can do. Right? So let's understand what's going on with this person. I engage in a relationship with someone. There's a lot of tricky stuff going on here. Okay? So we're going to try to tunnel down into this. I'm going to try to show this to you all.

How can I provide help without strings attached? So when this person engages in a relationship, they help the other person. The post isn't, I can't help other human beings. I'm a selfish asshole. Post is, I can't accept help. But they do help others. okay so when you help someone you create an expectation and when you create an expectation other people disappoint you right so i helped you i want so there's an expectation like i picked

you up from the airport you should pick me up from the airport and then they say hey can i give you a ride and then you say no because i don't know how to accept help and then they don't pick you up with the airport. Next week, you drop them off again. They ask, hey, can I pick you up from the airport? You say no. And then you feel disappointed. Then you feel this is especially bad for long-term relationships because I just feel like I'm doing all the work. You're damn right. You're doing all the work. That's the reason you feel that way. But why are you doing all the work? It's because you won't let them do the other half of the work. This is tricky. We'll get to this, okay? So then what happens is we create this expectation in our mind. And then the other problem is we don't

communicate that expectation. And then what happens is like, I don't know if this makes sense, but unless you communicate your expectations to other human beings, it's really not fair to hold them responsible for not living up to them. Right? Like, it's really easy for others to disappoint your expectations when you don't tell them what your expectations are. Like, and that's where a lot of relationships, I know it sounds super basic, but that's not actually how we operate, right? Like, we don't actually tell people, hey, this is what I'm expecting from you. We're not transparent with it. So someone's saying covert contracts, absolutely.

So this is where we see this kind of stuff when people end up in the friend zone. We're friends. Let me get you flowers for Valentine's Day as a friend, right? And then the other person is like, wait, are you sure this is just? just like a friend thing, like this is kind of giving me weird vibes. And then, no, no, no, don't have weird vibes. Anything but that. Don't retreat from me.

I'm in love with you. So since I'm in love with you and I see you retreating, no, no, no, it's absolutely as a friend. And then we become resentful because we don't tell them what we expect. And then how are we expecting someone else to know what we expect? Are they supposed to be telepathic? It gets twice as bad if you can't accept help because, I'm guessing that part of the reason that it feels like long-term relationships where you're doing all the work is because, first of all, you are doing all the work. So I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm not saying it's all in your head.

But the it question is, how does your behavior and your communication influence you doing all the work? Right. So I have a family member who's a wonderful person. And they get, anytime they see me like doing work, they try to do that work. So I don't know if you guys have family members like this where it's like, If you're visiting their house and you start taking dishes out of the dishwasher, they're like, no, no, no, no, you sit down, let me do that. And then it's like, okay, so you stop doing it. They're taking out the dishwasher.

You start taking out the trash. No, no, no, no, no. I can take care of the trash. You don't need to bother. And they're like, they always want to do the work that you're doing. And it's like, and then if you let them, they feel like they're doing all the work and then they get burnt out because you're not doing anything. Right? Classic mom tactic, absolutely.

Right? And so then, like, they're signing themselves up. Like, it's not wrong that they're doing all the work. It's also not wrong where they're coming from. They're not like a mean person who's an idiot. They care about you. They don't want you to do the work. But then they're going to end up doing all the work.

So if you can't accept help, your relationships are going to be one-sided. And then you get mad at your partner because your relationships are one-sided. Oddly enough, I don't blame you for it, but it's like it's a problem of your own creation. And that's what's really tricky, right? It's because if we say like it's a problem of your own creation, does that mean I'm blaming you? It's like, sort of, but there's also power there. Because if you have the power to fix it, you also have the power to break it.

Like the power is just the power. It's Shakti, energy. And so like this is what's kind of wild is like then you feel ashamed and stuff like that. No, it's just like you just haven't learned yet, right? It's not your fault. But you absolutely have the power to fix this. but if you have the power to fix it, you also have to accept responsibility

for your actions, creating the situation. So what do you do at the end of the? The answer is communicate. So you need to speak. I'm not saying, if you can't accept help, don't accept help.

If you can't trust, don't force yourself to trust. Because that's going to end up with problems too. I need to learn how to trust. I need to learn how to trust. Hey, person who I've never met before, come into my house and you can stay as long as you want to. And by the way, this is where I keep all my petting.

cash and here's where my wallet is, oh my God, I've been taken advantage of. You don't want to just blindly start going out there and practicing trust. I mean, I guess you can be interesting, but that's not what I would advocate. What you need to do is actually communicate. Right? So this is where like, when you're in a long-term relationship and someone tries to help you and you don't want to accept that help, acknowledge it to them and say, hey, I really appreciate you wanting to help, but I really feel like I can handle this on my own and like it makes me feel kind of weird if you help me with this. If you want to, you can even say it makes me feel a little bit ashamed of myself. And then your partner may be a little bit confused by that and like not

sure what to do. They may say, you don't need to feel shame. Oh, baby, you don't need to feel ashamed. Oh, that's okay. I'm your significant other. Like, I can, I can like take care of it for you. like you don't have to feel ashamed when, you know, you can't change a tire and you're a big manly man. And I'm not a manly man and I can change the tire. Like, you don't have to feel ashamed. When I'm bigger than you and stronger than you and can drink you under the table,

you don't have to feel ashamed. Right? And so just communicate. Share with your partner that, hey, I recognize that you're offering to help me, but it's really hard for me to accept help. You can even just say that. and then like at least you are being authentic in that moment.

It's going to help deal with the resentment. And then ideally what you can do is get to a conversation where you and your partner sit down and then this is a relationship problem that the two of you are going to solve together. So if it's hard for you to accept help, I'm really confused about how to help you. And this is where you also want to vocalize the other side where I feel like I'm doing all the work in the relationship. and then your partner is going to get understandably pissed at you. And they're like, yeah, you are doing all the work in the relationship because you never accept my help.

And then they're going to get pissed at you. And that's going to feel bad for a little while. And then y'all are hopefully going to talk through it. And y'all are going to sit down and you're going to acknowledge that I'm resentful for you for a situation in which I am creating and not letting you fix. And I'm blaming you for not fixing an impossible. situation. You need to acknowledge that to your partner. And then your partner is going to be like, then what the hell do we do about it? You need to shut the fuck up and accept my help. And then you're

going to be like, okay, because now they're pissed. And then they help you. And then it's going to feel good. It's weird. Right? Because they're not going to let you not accept their help anymore, which is exactly what you want them to do. You want them to swat aside, I can do it myself. You want them to swat it aside. You want them to plow right through that. And I don't care what you think I'm going to help you because I love you. And you deserve it. And despite all of your feeble protests, no, no, no, don't kiss me.

Don't kiss me. Please. Right? You want to be swept off your feet. And you want them to help you despite all of your protests because that shows that they care. And then you can trust them. Right? It's kind of weird. And if we want to get super, like, analytical about it, this is where, like, probably that's what the trauma was, that despite, you know, like, there was this weird impossible situation where you felt like you were stuck between a rock and a hard place and someone maybe created that rock in a hard place.

And they didn't smash through barriers to come and save you. And so now what you want from a relationship is to fix that problem from the past. We have no idea if that's actually the case. If that resonates with you and you're listening to it, great. If it's an epiphany fantastic, chances are it's completely off base. But generally speaking, there is this thing called the repetition compulsion where we create in our current relationships problems that we try to solve, problems that were not solved properly from past relationships.

Okay? So if you're hyper-independent, the answer is communicate more than anything else. If you're asking, what do I do? Because you can't just start trusting. You can't just like accept people's help. You can try a little bit for sure. That's also where like from in terms of accepting people's help, you can also try like accepting small amounts of help for insignificant things or even

asking for it, which is another like interesting technique. So I would sometimes it's easier to ask for things that don't matter as much to you in terms of reducing the shame or weakness. So you can even start by like asking someone that you care about to like grab something from you from a different room if you're sitting down. or like, you know, can you grab me this while you're up? And just let them do something small for you that doesn't evoke a whole lot of shame or weakness. You can actually practice that a little bit.

But I think at the end of the day, it's communicating that, hey, it's hard for me to accept your help and letting your partner know that. So at least they're aware that this is going on. Because right now what's going on is you have this whole internal cascade in your mind about this relationship, all this stuff that you're doing for them and they're not doing for you and then you feel alone. you can't talk about it, and you're setting these expectations, you're attaching all the strings to all the things that you do for your partner, and you're not letting them help you, and there's just this mountain of stuff that's growing in your mind. And then you feel let down and disappointed because they can't keep up with that crap, right? Because they're not psychic. And then you feel

frustrated with them. You feel frustrated with yourself. You recognize that, oh, if I could trust, this wouldn't be a problem. If I was better, this wouldn't be a problem. You beat yourself up. you feel stuck, you don't know what to do, then you're burnt out, then you're alone, and then it's like, you throw your hands up, I don't know what to do. It's just so much easier to do this. Why bother with all that crap? It's going to suck for a while, but the pain will go away. I'll learn on my own.

I can just power through. Right? And of course, like, that's not stupid for you to think that way. Like, obviously, like, think about what I'm describing. It's a mess. Why don't just do it yourself? Right? Easier.

So communicate is the answer. Communicate that you can't accept help. Communicate that when you help them and you don't let them help you that you feel resentful. Communicate that you acknowledge that that puts them in a hard position, an impossible position, and that you're working on it. Right? And that you need their help if they can. Can you help me figure this out? And maybe that's going to be weird to ask.

But oddly enough, I think that you can ask for their help there. I think you're going to feel less shame. When you own it and when you're authentic, it's going to be there. So just talk. Talk about what your expectations are. Let people know what they can do to make you happy or disappoint you in a relationship. Or it's like half of what I see like on these horror stories from online dating is like people are jumping through hoops and like playing games that like they're not even aware of what the rules are. I'll see this crap where it's like, oh, you want to meet up sometime?

Like, where would you like to go? That's pathetic. You don't ask me where I want to go. You pick a place and you take me there. And then you're like, my bad. And you're like, I need someone who's more assertive and can be like, you know, is confident in themselves and not someone who's waffling around and can't decide where to go. unmatched. And then you're like, and then you match someone else. And you're like, hey, I'd like to take you to this place on Tuesday. And you're like, and then what you guys,

how dare you? I'm an independent human being who has my thoughts and feelings. And you have the presumption to take me somewhere without even asking me what my preferences are. Like, what the? Unmatched. And it's like, we're playing all these games. Well, like, we don't know rules. And like different people have different rules. Right? And for those of y'all saying women, this isn't women. This is also, like there's a female side of this that's equally frustrating. Hi, how are you? Good. How are you? Oh, what are you into? I'm into anime. Oh, cool. I'm into anime too. Here's my dick pick. What? And then you go up to the next, you talk to the next person. And like, it's like equally confusing. It's like, hey, bitch, here's my dick pick.

there's no hey how are you right it's y'all making it about women it's not about women this is just like what's happening to people right and then there's even like the i matched with a person here's my dick pick like no hello right where it's like it happens too where like like you know women are confusing because men are also like they don't they don't tell you what they're like oh yeah like i'm totally fine for any kind of relationship i'm open i'm looking to meet anyone you know i'm supportive. I'm an emotionally available man. I'm really great that way. I think like, you know, I think all women are to be treasured and I respect women and I love women and I'm treasuring you and I'm loving you, which is why I don't want you to go out or talk to any other men because you need to be

treasured and preserved and cared for and I'm going to put you on a pedestal and I'm going to place really unrealistic expectations based on the scarring that my mother did to me. about what love is, and I'm going to put all those expectations on you, and I'm going to expect you to navigate them without ever telling you about them. And therefore, what I'm going to do is, since I don't know how to communicate, I'm going to hold you to standards. And when you don't meet those standards, I'm going to get passive and aggressive. Because I talk about being emotionally supportive and emotionally available,

but actually that's just BS. And I don't actually ever admit my faults. And I blame them on you. because that's what my mother did to me. Right? Like there's, y'all may want to gender it, which is fair, right?

Because I sort of did things that I guess people associate with women, but there's absolutely another side of the story. It's not gender-related. There's all kinds of, like, random crap, right? And it's like, and I think based on the women that I've talked to, the frustration is just the, it's like RNG, like dick-pick RNG.

text message could be a dick pick. Open the loot box. Is it going to be a regular text message or is it a, oh, I'm a super nice guy. I respect women. Hey, answer me back. Hey, answer me back. Hey, why don't you text to me? Hey.

Expletive, expletive. Other words that'll get me banned on Twitch or YouTube. Hey, hey, hey, give me a chance. Like, why don't you give me a chance? Like, you know, I'm a good communicator. Hey, hey, hey, hey, communicate, communicate. communicate. You're a bad communicator because you don't understand what my emotional needs are. And I'm placing all of my emotional needs on this match, which happened four hours ago.

And now it's two in the morning. And I don't really acknowledge that you have a job that you have to wake up for and that you could be asleep. But if my emotional needs aren't being met, I blame you for that. Because I don't care about the fact that you have a life and you have other things going on. I have emotional needs and you don't seem to understand that. Therefore, you are a B word or a C word or whatever kind of word, S word. there are all the words that get tossed out, right? So it's like people are playing games. They're measuring you against standards that you have no idea what they are. And so you're going to disappoint them. So this is where like communicate what your standards are.

Communicate what your expectations are. And that's also where like, I guess now we're talking about dating advice, but also like not all at once and right up front, right? I need you to be this. I need you to be this. I need you to be this. I need you to be this. you know, I need you to be six feet tall, six inches, six figures, versus I need you to cook,

I need you to clean, I need you to respect, I need, you know, sexual gratification, whatever I ask for, like unrealistic expectations bombarding people on the internet with them is not gender specific. It happens to both people. It's like, or not just both genders, there's more than two, whatever. Happens, it's human. To stop doing that, right? So start to communicate your expectations. recognize that your expectations is not a job application where people are checking off boxes

so that they have the privilege of being your mate. I saw a post recently, I don't know if this is on the HG subreddit, but someone was talking about they feel like, you know, women in their 30s have unrealistic expectations. That's not entirely fair. It's sort of true, but not entirely fair because generally what happens is if you have very stringent expectations that you're not willing to compromise on, you're more likely to be alone. So as you get older, there's all kinds of exceptions to this rule, right? So I don't even know that it's a rule. It may be the minority of people that apply to this. But if you're someone who

is not willing to compromise on your expectations, it's going to be harder for you to find a relationship. And then I would assume that generally speaking over time, maybe the older people get, the more likely you are to find people who have very stringent expectations.