HealthyGamerGG - WORRIED ABOUT THE FUTURE w/ Mutahar (SomeOrdinaryGamers)

Episode Date: June 16, 2021

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So how's it going? Good, buddy. How are you? I am good. A little hectic this morning, you know, as I told you before coming here. But yeah, I woke up really early. I had to get a bunch of stuff done. And then came back home just in the nick of time.

Cool. Fridays, I'm calling you, Friday, for those days where everyone sort of, you know, does their thing, comes home and relax. And then I'm just, I'm one of those people where it's like Friday's the busiest day of my week. to an extent. Why do you think that is? My work schedule is more gear towards the weekend. Like weekends are where I just sort of get all of my stuff done.

And then I try to make a relaxing weekday for me, you know, as much as I can. That and I'm really all over the place. So it's like when it comes to weekends after I'm done my work, I don't, my off time is doing more busy stuff, is doing more like intricate stuff. So that's, that's what comes down, you know. It's like there's really, there's really no moment where I'm like completely off, you know, like just relaxing on a weekend. So, um, with ours, uh, thanks for coming on, by the way. And, and, and what do you go by? It's a pleasure to be on. My name is just Muda, Moodahar. It works. You know, I'm actually glad you're one of the few people that first messaged me and it wasn't like, hi, Mr. Ordinary Gammers, because I get that a lot and, you know. Yeah. It's never fun. Give me just one second. I'm going to try to just switch our server and see if that fixes.

Is it? So you go by Moudahar? Yeah, that's what I go by. Your first name. Do you, it's it. Yeah. No, go ahead. I was just, I was getting like a weird ping on here. But yeah, no, I know it's a pretty weird unorthodox, you know, first name and everything.

How many people have it? Yeah. So Mudahar versus Muthahar. Do you know which one? I should go in. No, that is a, no, Mudahar. is fine. I never went with the second one. That's okay. I go.

That may be, I may I may get it wrong a couple of times, Muda. Oh, don't worry about it. Almost everyone, almost everyone gets it wrong. Muda sounds very Texan, so I just got to channel my inner Texan. Oh, you're from,

you're from Texas? Mm-hmm. That's some good stuff. I've been down there a few times. So I hope to go again when all of our lockdowns take, you know, and restrictions go down. And how long have you been in Canada? My whole life, really. Wow.

I would say, I would say, like, if we're talking about me moving here, probably when I was less than a year old, so I wasn't, I wasn't born up here in Canada, but, you know, I'm pretty much born Canadian, if you will, right? Yeah, I'm surprised by how, how similar your accent sounds to people down here. You know, I thought about that, too, for a while. When I lived in the States a little bit, the first of the first I ever lived in the states was Michigan. Everyone told me that I didn't sound Canadian. And I was like, what is the, what is the metric for sounding Canadian?

You know what I mean? And then I drove an hour up from where I live. And then I was like, oh, that's what the real Canadian sounds like. Okay. All right. Okay. That's really off. So you said you moved here, you moved to Canada when you were a year old.

From where? Yeah. India. So, you know. And what part of India are your parents from? Uh, my whole family is, uh, from Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh. Uh, you got like half my family from Lucknow and then you got half my family who like moved to Pakistan during the partition. So it's like, it's just spread across the board, you know. Okay. Um, so I, I have family back home, but I would say like my side of the family where I'm from, we're, we're Indian, you know. Yeah. Got it. And it was there something in particular that you wanted to talk about today, Muda? Honestly, I mentioned this earlier. It's just the idea of the whole like lockdowns and isolation.

It's just been insane. The last, from a Canadian, I think we've had the worst lockdowns. When I look at all my American friends, right, like they're able to go out for like months on end. And we've been locked down for like six, seven months straight, like the hardest lockdowns. No stores open, no nothing. Everything has been completely curbs that. Yeah. Meeting family has been the hardest because you, you know, when.

When you go to meet family in Canada during the lockdown, you have to do what's known as car Tetris, I guess, where you have to, like, park your cars and, like, a block over. So the police driving by doesn't, like, notice, like, more than four people are in a house meeting each other, despite them being family. So it's been a complete, like, everyone is stuck home. And the entire government sort of pushed this, just talk over Zoom, which isn't the healthiest thing, right? Like, you can't just sit over and... Hold on a second. If there are four cars in a parking lot, the police... police will. Yeah, if they notice more than like two cars in a driveway, they have the idea that

there's like a big gathering in the area and then they just come in and find you like crazy. And it's, oh my God. So they're just like police like patrolling your residential streets. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, there was a there was a point, I think two months ago where they gave like the Toronto like greater Toronto area police officers the right to just like pull your car over on the drive, like out on the road. And they could pull you over and ask you, you were doing and they could like find you, I guess, if you didn't give the right answer. No cop ever enforced that. All the police chief said that was a bad idea.

That's where we were for a while, in Canada, at least. All while, they didn't stop all the international travel, so everyone from around the world just kept coming in and we had to like, you know, stay in our houses, which I'm not, like, I'm not a doctor, so I don't want to like elaborate more on that. I'm sure there's a reason, but like, you know, it's just at some point, it gets too hard to deal with, you know? Like trying to meet your family. I haven't seen my family.

Well, now I've seen them, you know, in the last several weeks. But there was a period where it was like, okay, let's, you know, talk over the phone, I guess. Let's FaceTime each other. And it was never the same because I took it very much for granted before the lockdown ever began. I was always like a solo guy. Like I was always living, you know, on my own and having a good time. But we would always go meet each other over the weekends, right? Like, you know, dinners, you know, go out to eat.

And then it's like for the last six months, there was like a period where they stopped. the lockdown for like 12 hours. And then they just started it up again that same night. So we had lockdowns over six months, I would say. And then we were, yeah, we were completely separated hardcore in the province that I'm in. What's that been like for you? I would say the worst. I mean, like I said, it's it's something that I definitely took for granted, hardcore.

And I'll never take it again for granted after it. Right. Like the last time I could remember going out. for like a meal with friends was like August of 2019, you know? Like that's what like 2019 is where like my last, you know, brain kicks in like, wow, that was when things were normal. And then I had a flight to Texas, you know, because we had Pack South with friends and I went over there.

We had a good time. The moment I flew back January 2020, it was like when the whole lockdown started ramping up and, you know, this whole COVID-19 broke down and then in home ever since, you know, from home, do nothing, occasionally meeting friends, you know, once in a while. So when you say it's been rough, like in what way has it affected you? I miss having people next to me. I miss having people over, you know, even if it is just to talk, right? Like, I have very, like, I would say minimal social needs. I don't need to go

anywhere, you know what I mean? I'm to like experience the world in that, you know, traditional way, what most people expect. I like the concept of having friends over, even if it is just to watch a movie over there or to have a drink or, you know, play a video game or something or have a barbecue over at my house. Like before the whole coronavirus, I used to see my got child every once in a while, right?

Like we went over there. We had a whole family thing. It's been over a year since that's happened and he's already grown up to like, you know, like kids grow fast. So now it's just, oh wow, it's been over a year. I mean, what am I going to do? do. And that's where we're at, you know, it's, it really sets into stone how important it is to

have like an actual physical connection and like be there to other, because you can't do it over the internet. Like no matter what anyone says, you can't do, you know, Zoom calls. You can't do, even when it comes to work, right? Like when it came to my job, we do like a small business over here. So we're like a, we're like a family, right? We see each other in the office all the time. Now that we're home, you know, what the heck, right? Like, it's all over the place, you know, even even physical health-wise, you know, whereas I used to go out and do activities here and there. Now, because we're all locked in, you know, what are you going to do, right?

Like, your timings are all over the place. What do you do? How do you spend your place? For me, my, well, I have a pretty strict schedule now for work, right? Like, I start work at like 8 o'clock. I end it by at 3.30 p.m. Like, I used to a year or two ago. Like, I used to be hardcore into that 24-hour, no work-life balance.

which completely threw me out for a loop, right? It was the worst thing you can ever do with your health. So now I have like this, you know, I wake up early, finish, you know, sometime reasonably before the sun goes down. And then I go out for a walk, you know, you go out and, you know, run here and there or, you know, just breed some fresh air. And then by like 7 o'clock, I'll wind down. And, and, and, Muda, can you just tell, can we actually rewind a little bit? Can you tell me a little bit about what growing up in Canada was like and stuff like that? Growing up in Canada is about, I guess, one could expect.

Like, I mean, I had a normal childhood. I'm not going to, I don't have like wild stories. But I'll say as an Indian kid growing up post 9-11, that's the one thing that I would remember the hardest. A lot of people make Canada out, like it's this crazy multicultural loving society. And that's true for, you know, 95% of the scenarios. But when you're the only Indian kid growing up after, you know, what is one of the greatest North American tragedies, you know, there's a, you know, there's a lot of the, you know, there's

going to be a lot of people who look at you. And in a way, that whole experience probably shaped me into the person that I am, because I've always said this on stream, right? Like, when I went through that period of, you know, being bullied for, being isolated based on, you know, who I was, I could either absolutely, you know, let this ruin me, or I could just, you know, hunker down, I could realize, okay, I can take this adversity and I can, you know, channel it and I can turn it into a productive, you know, I, I can, I, I can, you know, I can, I can fight against it in a productive manner. And I feel like that's what I've done now. So it's, how do you do that? Work hard. You know, back when I back as Indian kids growing up, you know,

as Asian kids, your parents always tell you about how important it is, you know, to be good at school. You know, you always got to get A pluses. You always got to do this. You always got to do that. And growing up in Canada in that environment, it's so much more important. It's so much stronger to realize that the only way that you can prove your worth in society, right? And at least this is how I learned is you have to get into the system and you have to be the best of the best in the system, regardless of how much it is stacked against you, right? So I would say for an immigrant kid, literally an immigrant child, you know, it's probably two times harder than the average person you have to deal with over here, but it is doable regardless of how much you have to sacrifice

in your life. And I've had to sacrifice. You know, high school is when I pretty much started working and only now at 27 am I winding down my life? You know, like only now do I feel like I can breathe, right? So it's a, it's been a journey, like growing up especially here, especially with how, you know, that environment was post 9-11, right? Wow. Yeah. And so let me just think for a second. So do you have siblings?

Do you mind if I ask? I have one brother, yeah. Okay. Older, younger? Younger, five years younger. than mea. And did you get a sense of, so, so you're, you're like a full-time YouTuber now, right? It's a hobby sort of, but yeah, yeah, hobbyist of this point. So when you say, when you say you work from 8 to 330, can you help me understand what, what you consider work? So 8 to 330 is when I

start up my actual work computer, because I have two separate computers, right, like a work computer and then like a gaming computer, right? I keep it completely separate because, when I have games installed on my work computer, it, you know, mine goes somewhere else. I'll play this match here and there. So I started my work computer. When it comes to my actual, you know, job, I work as, you know, I work investing in, you know, at this point, right?

Like stock market stuff. So I got to wake up, I got to wake up early. I got to, like, screen stuff and I got to, like, screen stocks. And I got to, like, look at investments. I'll buy and sell early in the morning. And I'm usually done by, like, noon if I'm, you know. Oh, so I miss that. So you're like a day trader.

I used to be, but now it's just, you know, at this point, that that was what I used to do for a while. And now things have become more relaxed. So it's just buying and selling. And that's pretty much what it is for me. So buying large commodities and putting them on the market, selling them and things of that nature. And so what did you think you were going to do in high school? Oh, man. I had no prospects coming out of high school.

I was so in the middle of work and studying that around the time of 11th, grade, because in high school they tell you, is your 11th grade results and your 12th grade results is what matters to go to college. I was so busy at the time that I was like, man, what did I want to do? If I had any goal in my life, it was to be a lawyer, because that's, I would consider that have been my dream job for the longest time is to work in law. But this is a point where money, going into law school is probably one of the, after medical school, it might be the second most expensive form of schooling. Maybe tell it a, toe. So that wasn't a reality for me at the time. After high school, it was just, I had actually

applied to the army, but, you know, that didn't go anywhere. Eventually, I just worked. I went to university for computer sciences, and that's it. And so you said you were working in high school? What kind of work did you do in high school? Just computer work early end. That's what I was doing. You know, your basic, like, part-time work, nothing, you know, substantial. I was also a student at the time. And in fact, a lot of my work really ended up being just like basic community service work just to rack on the hours. Because in Canada, you have to do your minimal amount of community service to graduate, like 40 hours. But 40 hours is like the minimum. You need like way over 40 if you want to get into a good university or at least even have an attempt.

So I was always working for free either that, making some part time cash on the side. And that's pretty much or getting my studies done. some night schooling because we had to get more credits than I had because I moved around a lot during high school in America and Canada. So when you move around during high school, your credits don't carry over sometimes. So I had to take some extra classes to even be able to graduate and get into university. So it was a hectic period, hectic four years of my life. That doesn't sound very fun. It is absolutely the most unfun thing.

And you know what makes it even more unfun? is when you're not good at a lot of your subjects. Like, I was never good at English. I didn't have a lot of good creative classes I was in. The only class that I was really, really good at was math. That's about it. That's my background, right? Like, math is one of those things where it's like,

okay, you give me a formula. I'll be able to, you know, extrapolate based on that. But I literally could not do, I was just, I wasn't really feeling all the other subjects. I was good at it. Like, I could get good grades, but you're not feeling it, right? Like, I don't want to go to this English class. Like, sure, I'll. get your 90 and I'll call it a day, but it's not fun for me. It's not engaging me.

The only class that I actually even ever enjoyed, aside from math, which I'm saying enjoyed because I like numbers, you know, to an extent was a video production class. It was sort of like, you know, one of those electives you would have, you would just pick in. So I was like, hi, I get to edit videos on final cut. It sounds like you worked really hard in high school. talking about taking night classes doing community service like side jobs on the side like yeah no it's it's blurred I'll I'll help you understand yeah I mean can you help me understand like what was in your mind like if you're a sophomore in high school like my mind was to in my head I had this long term goal of keeping my grade point average above a certain point right that's my long term

goal. In sophomore year, super important because in my head, I always think like this, right? Like, when they told me that 11th grade and 12th grade was the important grades where they would calculate them, like, there's no way you're ever going to be successful in those grades. If you don't start that success from the ninth grade or the 10th grade era, right? Like, if you're just slacking off for the first two years, that mentality rolls in to those last two years. So I was always working hard and maintaining my GPAs, having my prerequisites, all of that stuff. even when we were moving around, right?

I was calculating, okay, I just lost these many credits. I got to have this much to graduate. I was, there was a point, man, for like 11th grade. I was just focused on, can I graduate normally? Do I have to, like, victory lap based on how much I moved around? You know, that's what was running in my head. So, and I remember, like, moving around my dad, who is in the medical field, he moves around a lot because of it.

I never ever told him that, yeah, this is really piling on to me, dad. Because I didn't want to, like, you know, be a burden on it. I don't want to tell them to screw your job over because I'm telling you. So I just kind of rolled with it. I dealt with the punches because I'm telling you, high school felt like I was in the longest boxing match of my life and there was no breaks, right? Like it was just punch, punch, punch, punch.

It was punch, punch, punch. Even summer breaks, we had those two month breaks. And for a lot of students, for a lot of guys, it's like two months off. Hold on, I'm just getting a little two months off. It feels like forever. For me, two months off felt like a weekend now, you know? It was just like, oh, right, school's hands. I got some homework. I got to focus on what's happening going into this next grade. I got to make sure that, you know, I have, I even had like a money, you know, like goal too. Because I was like, I got to save enough cash in order to even think of going to college or university. Right. So. Wow. Yeah. Like I would say growing up for me happened forcibly, you know. A lot of people get to enjoy their life. Like, you know, their younger age, they get to make their mistakes. I was on like a tight rope. No safety net. Imagine.

imagine having the, imagine having the, like, the skinniest thread going across the Niagara Falls, and you have to cross the entire thing, and there's no safety net. So that's what my life kind of felt like for a while. When did you realize? How old were you when you realized that you have no safety net? Probably first year of college, I'd say. When I got into college, right? Because when I thought when I got into university for a while and I dropped out like a semester in

because I was like, okay, no, no, I'm not doing. Because University of Toronto, like the first semester that you went and you paid this crazy amount. And at this point, I started, you know, getting more work on the side. I started building up a career. So I was like, wait a minute, do I choose to go through this university path, which will work for me or to go out on the career path? That's when I realized like, okay, I'm on that tightrope, you know, like I'm on, I've got no safety in it. Like, I'm after high school. High school was that era where I could make my mistakes, right?

Now I'm in college. Now I'm in the professional field. you know now I'm like on my own I have to make money to pay my mortgages or rent at a time that's when I realized okay now I can't make a single mistake now I'm stuck in now whatever I choose to go whatever choice I make now will affect my weeks going on forward that's where my mind was you know first year of college I find that a little bit hard to believe because I know it sounds kind of a weird thing to say but like it sounds to me like you you were sort of really think I mean maybe you've had a safety net of sorts but

It sounds to me like even when you were a freshman or sophomore in high school, you were like, I got to start now. Like, you know, I almost hear that mentality there, like even earlier than college, where like, if you screw up in 10th grade, there's no way you can do what you need to in 11th grade or 12th grade. No, I'll say that I had the mentality in high school like that then, because like I told you earlier, right, it was like, okay, I got to make sure my grades are good going in to get accepted into college. But when I got into college, right, you think like for a second that you can,

breathe for a bit now that you're in college you know you've gotten into the university you've wanted to you're into the program and it's still hard right like it you know it's it's not high school you know advanced anymore it's still it's it's you're professional at that point and i think the reality of when i turned 18 and i became a full adult and you know i didn't have my parents to depend on anymore i had like it felt like every choice decision that i was making was completely on me and like college that you know 18 to like 25 was that much moment where like every decision I make will affect how my life is forward. I feel like that's that's where I realize like, okay, you know, high school, maybe I could have made a mess up

or two, right? Maybe, you know, but not, not in my college or professional life. You sound very, you know, like the future was sort of like bearing down on you, like every single day. Like, that's sort of what I'm feeling. It's like there's sort of this. I still feel like that, man. I mean, Even though like I'm 27 now and I think I've got my life together, I still think about what life is going to be like at 40 for me, right? And it's interesting because my dad one day sat me down, you know, just before the pandemic, he's like, because I told him this exact same conversation that we're having right now. It's deja vu for me. I told him about like, I got a prep for my life at 40. And my dad one time, he told me he's like, do you even know if you're going to be alive at 40?

Like my dad had this conversation. And it was a weird conversation. Like, dad, why would you think that, right? Like, and my dad's like, no, it's a legit question. Like, are you going to be, you know, alive at 40? Like, how do you know that? How do you know? Why are you choosing to, like, live for life and why are you prepping for 40 when you're not even living now?

And even though we have that conversation, it's hard to ever get out of that mindset, you know? Like, there's never a night I have where I go to bed and I don't think tomorrow, you know, the responsibilities that I have, right? Like, you know, all of that. Ruda, would you just sort of complies on you? I would absolutely love to have like a mental guide map. I feel like this is actually a really great question. For me, I look at life in the numbers and like what's there. You know, like a good example, right?

Like when I look at things tomorrow, right, I'm like, this is how much I need to pay for my bill tomorrow, my mortgage, you know, every payment for the next six, seven months. Right. I look at it from a numbers perspective, right? Like, this is what I need. But I never look at myself, right? I never realize what do I need to make sure mentally? is what I'm prepared for for the next day, right? Like, how do I make sure that I'm mentally, like, sane six months from now, right?

How do I make sure that I don't overwork myself to, like, you know, literal insanity? So, yeah, I would actually like the help there. Is there a problem? Yes, there's a big problem. That's because your goal is actually reinforcing the problem. So, it's subtle. But you're like, you know, so like instead of thinking about dollars, like you've said, Oh, Muda has like a bank account and he has like a mental bank account.

And what I'm doing right now is I'm withdrawing money from my mental bank account to make sure my physical bank account is good. How do I ensure that my mental bank account is nice and full? You see what I'm saying? But it's still that that mentality of like, how do I make sure that tomorrow is going to be okay? Yeah. And we could talk about isolation in the pandemic. If you want to, I, you know, this is, it's really your, I feel like it's more, I feel like it's more interesting to hit the root of my actual mental problem here.

Yeah, if you're a game. This is, yeah, this is way beyond isolation. This is like my entire life. Yep. And that's what we're, so let's, you okay, diving in a little bit? Yeah, I'm okay, diving in. Okay. If I, if you ask you a question that makes you, if you, I'll let you know if I want to answer.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. I was about to say it makes you uncomfortable, but I think it's okay for me to ask you questions that make you uncomfortable, and you've got to let me know if I step too far.

Okay? Okay. So I'm going to start with, so tell me what it's like to live one day in your head. If I was an observer in your head, what would I witness? Well, you'd witness me waking up and immediately checking all my emails,

work things for what we have to do today for the next week throughout the week. you know, doing all of that busy work in your head, making all your calls, making all your, you know, your day-to-day communication. And then living, basically, I would say, hour by hour as to handling in and making sure all of your work responsibilities are meant day to day. I would say that if you were an observer looking in, you'd probably notice that for an hour in the morning, I get to breathe a little bit. And then for the rest of the day, it's like autopilot, you know, like work. I'm doing it. And then towards the end of the day, like, you know,

4.35 is when you get to see me again, right? Like, I've entered my body again, seeing me be myself. And what is what is it like when you enter your body again? It's, uh, I guess it's like a feeling of just, I guess, uh, well, for one, you know, you get to breathe again. You know, you get to be yourself. You get to focus on what your hobbies are. You get to focus on what you want to do for the rest of the day, right? Now you finally got your body back. So for me, it's like, hey, do I go out for a walk or do I go home? and I sit and program something that I'm into because one of the things that I love to do after work

is I love to sit around and program and tinker with a couple of computers that I have sitting around over here. So for me, the rest of the day is just basically what I love, you know? Like what I actually want to do, not what I have to do to survive day by day, right? So for me, that's what it comes down to. And then that's pretty much what it is.

Regardless of what my channel name is, some ordinary gamers, I do, I don't do a whole lot of gaming throughout the week, unfortunately because of responsibilities anymore. But, you know, that's the day of my life, an observer, if you will. I'm doing something every hour. There's never a point where I sit down and I really breathe, you know? Like, I have like my moments, but I'm always.

What happens when you sit down and try to breathe? I honestly can. Like, everyone gives me advices on meditation, you know, like breathe for like 15 minutes, you know, do something. And I keep doing it. But like, there's this feeling of anxiety. I would say like, there's this feeling, a physical feeling. It's almost like, you know, when your throat is raspy, you know what I mean?

Like, it almost feels like it's just you're throwing lava down your throat. Like it's just, it's, you just don't feel good. It's kind of like a panic attack, if you will, because I feel like I have to be doing something. It could be anything. It could be something. It could literally be me like, you know, spinning something in my hand, right? Like a fidget spin or whatever, anything. But I don't know if I can sit down in a chair.

and just close my eyes and breathe nonstop for 50 minutes. Because in my head, I'm always like, wow, you could have done something productive. You could have done something. You've just sat down and literally did nothing, you know? You just sat down in your own head. My brain doesn't allow me to sort of think for a little bit to be in my head, you know, because in my head, there's another voice that tells me, you got to do this, you got to do that. You got to make sure this is done.

You're wasting your time. You know, you have this responsibility for tomorrow. You've got to make sure that it's set. Like, I had a video project that I had to get. get done on Friday one time. This is a month ago. I do a big video project on my channel every month. So I divide up the whole thing, you know, like I'll do an hour of one day and then I'll do an hour of it the other day. So I've already divided it, you know? But even though that I've allocated one hour of my day to this project, when I sit down to breathe, I'm like, you could have applied

this half an hour to this project and sort of gotten it done faster. You could have made the project better. So when I'm uploading this video in my head, I'm like, wow, it could be way better than what I did. I wasted, you know, free time. It'll always constantly run through your head. Like, there's never a, there's never a point where your brain will allow you to stop and think and be yourself. It's always you can do something. You can be doing something. You're not doing anything. So I wouldn't say worthless feeling, but, you know, it's, it's not healthy at the same time. I don't know how to exactly describe that. I don't know the term if it exists, but how does it feel to share that? It doesn't

It feels weird Like I keep a lot of this in my head man Yep I never have the I don't think I have the courage To ever describe this To people You know like

If you were to sit across from me And you ask me Hey are you okay I would most likely give you a lie Like I would lie to your face And be like I'm totally You know Like I don't think I have the

Hmm Why does it require courage to I just feel like I'm opening myself. I feel like I'm coming across this week when I tell you, like, I, you know, I'm calling myself this worthless individual in my head. I don't want to like reiterate that same thing to you. I'll tell you that I'm doing fine. Like even when it came to my parents, right, it's like, are you okay? Like, are you doing it? I would always tell them, yeah, no, I'm absolutely one. Like, even when we were moving around and I could have my dad like, hey, moving around in high

school would have been pretty bad. Like, it would have added distress. I'm like, no, dad, it's 100% great. I'll make it work. Absolutely. So, you know, this is just one lie you keep telling yourself and you try to lie enough about that that you end up believe yourself, I guess. I feel weak in my head. Like, I can't, I don't have the, I don't have the courage to tell somebody that I feel weak in my head. I've always felt that those feelings are a lot easier to deal with if you can bottle it up and punch through the day, you know what I mean? The boxing match that never ends.

The boxing match that'll never end. Like some days it feels like, it feels like, I guess, It's just, it's like, it's like somebody's shooting me, you know what I mean? It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like I'm getting shot every day, right? Like, like it's like that feeling, right? Like that punch to your stomach, you know what I mean? And it's like, you can tell somebody that it hurts. You can tell somebody that it, you know, you can lean on somebody or you can just sort of deal with the fact that it happened to you and move on, you know, if that makes any sense, right?

Like, you know, you've, you've, you've already had the impact. So are you going to, are you going to waste time? sticking with it? Are you going to waste time thinking to yourself what you could have changed or will you just proceed to go on or will you fight on ahead, right? Yeah. Persevere. Yeah, perseverance, exactly, you know, the strong survive type mentality. Yeah, like, you know. There's no time for a break. Mm-hmm. Your brain won't let you sit quietly for 15 minutes. Absolutely not. Because you have to persevere. Mm-hmm. And if you don't, then your brain will tell you you're wasting time. do you feel we are sharing this right now?

Yeah, actually, to be honest with you, I feel, uh, yeah, I feel, I feel, I, I got, I gotta, I got a, I have spent my entire life bottling things up, you know, like, if anything is genuinely hurting me mentally, I felt that it's easier if I can just bottle it up and push on, I've got, you know, younger siblings, I've got parents, you know, like, the older they get, the more I got to take care of them. So it's like, I got to be in that mentality. in some ways I got to get used to be this stone if you will right like this Tinouki suit from Mario which is like just perfectly still like it just nothing can affect it I know if I think about the Tanoiki suit is that you can't move anywhere

exactly stuck I mean I know listen in my head I know at one point like for a long time that if I keep doing it will be the death of me like physically if I choose to keep doing this concept of if I choose

to keep bottling myself up I am eventually killing myself by doing it because there's no way that I feel like mentally I'll be able to keep doing it for 10 more years like if I'm 35, 36

still bottling in things that's going to be where my brain stops working and you know I'm just either I become such an emotionless person either I do with it that I lose who I am or you know

gets worse. It's unsustainable. It's just not possible. It's not something healthy. But I don't know the way out. I don't know how to escape it. What scares me the most is I won't ever figure out how to escape it. What's your understanding of? What's my understanding of? Can I think for a second, Muda? Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Go ahead. Take a time. I don't want to feel like I'm one of your, you know, hard cases or something. Like, yeah. So, sorry, I, I get the sense you're very anxiously looking at my face and trying to interpret. how I'm sitting with what you're sharing. So let me just start talking because I've, I'm afraid that if I sit silently for a minute, your mind is going to like create all kinds of negative thoughts. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.

It already is beginning. So what does it? Share with me what your mind is telling you right now. Well, in your head, I'm, when you look around, it's like when you have, when your eyes open up a little bit and you're, you know, it's like, earlier you're like, the fuck, right?

Like you were just like, what's it going on with? I was like, man, in my head for a second, And I'm like, I guess I'm, I guess I'm too far gone. I guess I'm just one of those people that he's like, I thought this guy was, you know, I thought, I thought, you know, I could do some work with this guy. And I was just, who, you know, he's gone. Buddha, I'm very confident that we can do work. I can, I can feel very good about helping you with this.

So, so, but, and I think it's tricky because no matter what I say, even if I, if I say something like that, I would imagine that instead of being reassured, you would actually feel like maybe a little bit ashamed if I say something like that. Do you detect it? Actually, actually, you hit it right on the money there. Right? Because now I do, yeah. Now what is it?

Tell me. When I say, no, no, don't worry. I can absolutely help you with this. And then what do you feel? I don't know. I guess I feel like the positivity, like sort of the laugh for a second that you had. It almost, I would feel like it's kind of like a pitying in a way. You know what I mean?

like, oh, don't worry, we can deal with it. It's just, it's hard for my brain to believe it. You know, it's hard for my brain to believe it after so long. What does it believe? What does it want to believe? My brain believes it's, my brain honestly believes, like, it's all, it's, my brain just telling me that it's all like just BS and you can't just do it, you know. Yeah.

My brain is working against it. It's very difficult to explain how it's working against it, but it's, it's treating this whole scenario, like, like, it's, it's all a joke. and maybe like someone's pitying you for what you're in right now. But I mean, I'm trying, like in my head, I'm trying to convince myself, yeah, okay, you know, this is help, right? I don't want it to be pity. No, yeah, we're going to help you out.

So we're going to calm your brain down. You're ready? Okay. Yeah. So it's better to be dead than weak, right? That's true, yeah. You know, you don't like, like, it's fine to suffer, but like you don't actually, like, need someone's help.

you don't need your pity. You can punch through. You know, and if, like, if the cost is your mental health, if the cost is a heart attack, that's a price we're willing to pay.

It's all good. Like, we can handle that. We've survived this shit before. You know how messed up it is that I believe that 100%. That is, that is a mantra I could live by. Like,

it's better to be dead than it is weak. That's, that's, you've literally hit my life fucking, like, you've hit, you like, you know,

like you walk into an office and they have like their company slogan. You've exactly like wrote the company slogan out there. It's better to be dead than it is. Yeah. When you say you could live your life by it, bro, you have been living your life. Yeah, right. I haven't lived any other way.

It's not a hypothetical, my dude. Yeah. No. No, it's not. Yeah, exactly. I'm making it sound like I could be in the situation. No, I am in the situation. I am living in that.

I built the entire house myself. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. I mean, it's like, you know, that's your company slogan. This is the house that you've built.

Mm-hmm. Right? That's the bet I made, you know? I better lay in it, I guess. Absolutely, right? It's my, I chose this. Yeah. Right?

I have no one to blame. I don't need anyone's help. No one needs to pity me. Like, I did this. Yeah. No, 100%. I mean, like, I think of life as like in a way. I know that I said isolation.

I've said it earlier that I'm a very like reserved tool. Like I'll engage with everyone around me. But in a lot of ways, and if I guess I feel I guess I feel like in my head like the only life I've ever known as being alone on an island

or sort of by yourself trudging through every aspect of your life yourself because like for me I don't think I can rely on anyone professionally I always put it on to myself and that's how I've succeeded in my life and that's how I'll continue to succeed I think it's very hard for me to include any

full partner you know what I mean like honestly that's why I feel like a lot of of my relationships in life have failed, right? Like my, well, you know, romantic relationships because I choose to, it's great for a while, but then I just tend to reserve and get back into myself. And it's hard for me to end up trusting anyone else and sort of confiding anymore. Like literally the conversation that we just had now, I could never have a event.

Even if I was remembering, we're talking like two years into our relationship. If we have that talk, never. This is never going to happen. Me and you, we can never be together. I don't know. I mean, it could. Life is. You know what I mean?

Who knows? But like that conversation, that like level of, okay, you gave me my company slogan. We would never even get like a quarter into that conversation like anything. They would like ask me. You know, it's like, are you okay? My response would be like, I'm great. You know, like perfect. Absolutely.

You know, how's work? Even though I could have had the worst day. Like I could have lost a contract. I'm like, it's great. What would it mean to say things aren't going great? What would it mean to say things aren't going great? what would it mean to say things aren't going great for me is if you could look around me and see the entire burning pile that I'm in, you know? Like, if my, if my, if you walked by my office and

it was like, yeah, foreclosed, everything gone. Company's dead. You know, they have to dissolve. That's what it would take for me to say. Yeah, you know, it's not good. No, but so let's say that that you, that you just had a bad day. What would it mean to you or what would your brain tell you if you tried to share with someone? Oh, my brain would tell me you don't share because like that other person, they're probably going to look at you, like, wow, this is a guy that, like, what an idiot. Like, only an idiot messes up like that, right? Like, kind of an, like, if I lost a contract, my brain would be like, don't tell them that. They'll think you're a fucking idiot for telling that. They'll think you can't even do your job. You're like, you're like inept at doing your job.

Because that's what my brain says, like, don't bother. Like, even if somebody asks me that, like, if my parents will do it, I'll be like, work is going fine. Don't worry about it. even though, you know, if I have a bad day, I can't, you know, tell anybody anything. Muda, I'd like a moment to think, but I want us to be a little bit careful about what kind of judgments your mind is telling you. Yeah. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out how to help you through this a little bit. And don't worry, you're going to do it all on your own.

I'm just going to point the way you're going to do all the heavy lifting, okay, bro? All right. Just can I have a second? Yeah, no, absolutely go for it. How you holding up, by the way? I am, I'm actually surprisingly good right now. I had a good day before we came over here. Like, I got all of my work pretty much done out with.

So everything's great. Everything is fine. If I had a bad day, it'd be opposite. I had a good day before we started this. But it's, no, no, I have a good day now. But like, that would have, like, if I had a terrible, If I didn't get my job, like, if I didn't get my work done before we started, I would have been like in a completely off mood. So I'm just like, all right.

So here's what we're, here's my hypothesis. Okay. I'm going to just lay things out for you because I'm a little bit concerned about, I want to try to help you participate in the healthiest way possible. One really healthy way to participate is that I can just predict what your brain is going to tell you and we can kind of like work through that. Just notice what your brain is doing. That's actually, that will help you come out of this. I know it sounds weird, but just noticing these thought patterns will start to give you power over them. Okay.

Okay. But what I'd really like to do is I think that basically what's going on is that you have like this programming in your head. And I think it actually comes from a particular place. And as we understand like where that programming comes from is we understand why that voice essentially like started in the first place. and furthermore like what has reinforced the volume of that voice, right? Because I think at this point, if we kind of talk about it, like what we see is that it's that voice which has been looking out for you, right? Like, does that make sense?

Yeah, the guiding voice in your head that tells you how to succeed day to day out. Yeah, right, but it's also the voice that kind of like makes you feel like, as you say, you get shot on a daily basis because, you know, it's all tangled up, right? So, so what I want you to understand is that like, you know, our mind does things to adapt to particular situations. And then what ends up happening usually later in life is that some of those things can be become maladaptive. So you learned how to be like essentially like a one man show, right? Like, you know, I would guess that while your parents probably told you like, oh, it's good to do in school. Like, They weren't the ones keeping track of, like, which classes you need to repeat.

Right. Right? Like, you were doing that for yourself. So, like, like, your ability. And so that, like, that sort of self-reliance was probably, like, really helpful back then. But now, as you mentioned, I'm glad you brought it up because then, you know, I don't, I don't have to. But I think, like, when it comes to romantic relationships and stuff, it's going to cause problems. Oh, yeah.

Because, because, and so I know it sounds weird, but I'd rather be. dead than weak. I think that's actually not the original slogan. That's the rebrand. I think actually this problem starts with the phrase making sure. And that if you can learn how to like not make sure that dot dot dot, dot, then your life will be quite different. Does that make sense? Or is that too vague? No, it makes sense. Yeah. No, it's like make sure you don't do this negative thing or else it'll lead into that next. Yep. So I'd say that the really the controlling thing in your life is like, you know, and even if you kind of talk about confiding how your day is, like, what are you really doing when you don't share how you really feel? You're making sure, right? What are

you making sure when does that make sense? Is that like, I know it's kind of a weird question. I guess I'm making sure that I'm like not exposing myself. Exactly. Right. So like, What are you actually controlling? Like you're controlling the perception. You're making sure that this person does not think about you this way. Mm-hmm. And so what I'm really hearing is that like, like, you know, I could be wrong here. Okay.

So this is I'm presenting you with a hypothesis and it's, you know, you're welcome to push back. But like the theme that I'm really hearing is that like you're making sure because it's, it's interesting because I'm going to just start tying stuff together, okay? Could be relevant. I mean, I don't really know. we're in like, you know, we're an alpha testing here, okay? Nowhere near a finished product. This idea of like no safety net, right?

And so like if you think about like, you know, what is someone who's, you did a beautiful job of creating this imagery of like, you know, a horsehair that is like stretched across for a hundred miles. And what is someone who has to cross that tight rope have to do? They have to make sure because there's nothing to catch them. Yeah. Right. And like, you know, why can't you tell people how you? you feel because you have to make sure that something when you went you know why do you have to like work you know you wake up every day at 8 a.m. and and you know you're like oh my work my weekends or my

busy days but it sounds like you work seven days a week and then I get a little bit of me time and then even in the me time right your your your your mind is like you better make sure like you're not going to give yourself any me time if your mind says you need to make sure dot dot dot because in the me time i'm guessing goes out the window We haven't even talked about it, but I'd also guess that, you know, you said two hours, two years ago, you're saying you would work for 24 hours at a stretch. No work life balance. And I'd guess that the main thing was that you had to make sure. You had to make sure this went okay. This goes back to your partner business where like you're kind of like, I can't really trust anyone, right? Because you have to make sure that everything is okay. Yeah. So what I'm also like for me, it's also, I guess there's also a feeling of like I have to be. in control of myself and I can't just, you know, deconstruct my feelings and myself in front of somebody else. I don't want to,

I guess there's also a feeling of I don't need, I don't want to feel like I ever have to rely on, even if it's in like in a romantic relationship, like, I want to feel like if something ever happens in that, right? Like, God forbid, like a partner passes away or something. You know what I mean? Like acts of God that I can at least compartmentalize

and like make sure that I'm still me. Yeah, so I think that's a great example, right? So because I think here's the thing. you can't make sure that acts of God won't happen. Absolutely, yeah. So what can you make sure? What I can see in front of me and I feel like I can control, right? Like what I think is within my grasp, yeah.

So I'm going to jump a little bit here, okay? So what you can make sure of is that you don't fall in love with someone that acts of God can take away from you. Right. Lord does I made that mistake. Yeah. Yeah. Have you made that mistake? I fell in love with individuals with your health issue.

That, you know, I don't want to elaborate further because I don't want to, like, you know, expose what they have. But the point is, it's terminal. And I guess I knew that going ahead of time, like falling in love with somebody knowing years later that they would have gone. Exactly the smartest thing I could have done. But, you know, emotions are emotion. They tend to happen. and I made that mistake in life. They're still fine now, don't worry.

Like, they have a few more years to go, but that mistake. You know, it's a rare thing when I say something like that is like a hypothetical. No, no, this person has a, well, I'll tell you, this person has a pot, so it's a tachycardia. It's really bad. They have a couple more syndromes regarding it, like long QT and everything of that nature. So for them, they have had to get like sinus note surgery modifications, like burning on their hearts and things like that. Doctors have told doctors specialists who are trained in this field have started to, you know, give up and sort of give like end of life. You know, I have to be told about like what a DNR is, like a do not resuscitate order.

I don't know. It's at the end stages and that's a lot more common, I guess, than one can expect. You know, people are going through it. They just don't really like to talk about it. Very similar to how I don't like to talk about what my head is doing. They don't like to ever talk about their physical ailments until you end up getting to love them. And, you know, that comes out. Sorry, I need a minute to process that.

I was not expecting that one. How are you feeling when I say I need a moment to process? Is it more of like, oh, my God. I know, I know. I know. It's definitely like, you know, a lot to deal with. I mean, it's still a lot to deal with mentally in my head, realizing somebody of my age is going through that. especially somebody I still very deeply care about, but, you know.

Can I ask you questions about, I have no interest in digging into that person's privacy, but. Right now. You can ask me about my side of the emotion to that. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah, can you tell me how old you were when you met this person? I would say that I was 12.

24, 24. So, no, three years ago. And that's an R-O-Z. Can you tell me a little bit about how you, it sounds like you fell in love? Yeah, you know, we sort of met, we hung out for a bit, and eventually we shared some common interests. You know, she became my girlfriend.

That's pretty much what it comes down to. But, you know, around that time, she told me very much before we ever got together that she was going through all of this and all of, you know, these health issues. And at the time, it wasn't, it wasn't as severe as it is now. So I was always in my head like, ah, you'll get positivity, right? I'm like, you have the best doctor care in the world. You'll be fine. And now it's also to a point where, you know, the best doctors in the world couldn't do it, right? God's calling her home, that kind of shit.

So. Yeah. How do you, how do you feel right now sharing that? No, I feel really fucking sad that I'm about to lose someone as, is, it's in my head. There's nothing that I feel like personally is happening to me. Like, you know, I'm being affected mentally because of it because of my head, I'm just realizing as much as it affects me, right? Like, you know, that's, I would say, inconsequential to the physical health of this other person, right? you know, even if like, it's hard to see somebody in that situation, you know what I mean?

Like, I don't want to see somebody in that situation, even as whoever I care about. And so I try to, like, distance myself in a way as much as I can, you know, by burying myself in work or a hobby or something. But then, like, you know, you can't completely do that. You can't completely ignore the world around you. So I look at that. And I guess I get really angry, seeing that that's happening to somebody I care about, somebody, a very young age, you know, in their mid-20s like me. It's like, what the fuck, you know?

Like, I guess I'm more angry than I am thinking about myself because I don't really matter in the scheme of thing. When I'm looking at, you know, somebody goes through those hailing, they're about to go die and, you know, I'm about to, you know, live on in the world while losing somebody. So what right do you have to complain? Yeah, what are I exactly?

Like, I'm sitting over here and, you know, I'm not dying. dying with a functioning art. Yeah, right. Like, I'm not dead. You know, I get to, I get to see tomorrow. I get to see Bar Acts of God, 22, 2022, 2023, and beyond. You know, this person is at the end, you know. I mean, there was a period of my life where I actually thought I could have it, like,

I could have had, like, family, something going forward, right? Like, it could have worked past. It could have been everything. I had, I had a brief moment of, like, I could have, like, you know, really, I could settled down for once and then things started messing up and we ended up growing apart you know because of my work and everything

and that was it you know do you talk to her oh yeah here and there you know we have a you know it's not like we stopped communicating ever in fact I'm one of the few people aside from her parents she'll communicate

to about health issues right I guess I'm like an emergency context so that tends to happen. Does she know how much she means to you? Yeah, I tell her that. Yeah, I tell her that, you know, at the end of the day, I wish things could have been different, but, uh, you know, they're not. Does she get to see strong muda or weak muda? I don't think she's ever seen weak muda, to be honest with you. It's been, we weren't long enough together for her to ever see me like. I think in a lot of ways, um, when I saw, um, when I saw, um, I don't think, she's ever seen,

saw her in the way that she was and I saw her physical like, you know, issues, her terminal issues, like, you know, her health problems. I never, ever wanted to show her mood to because I was like, I'd already have this shit on a daily basis. And she was already really strong, you know, like dealing with all of her illnesses. When you're putting a smile on your face after the specialists have told you, no, I don't know if I could know you what I mean? I don't know if I, I recently had appendicitis surgery, right? And I remember waking up in recovery and the doctor like was telling me we did your blood test, you're gonna have to stay another day.

I was losing in my mind. I'm like, die, you know what I mean? Like, what is he saying? Right? And I mean, that was like inconsequential compared to like this, right? Like, I was like, I was in a recovery.

I was gonna come out just fine. But then I look at her situation and it's like the doctors, the specialists are telling her, okay, we should be discussing EOL and all this nonsense. I'm like, dude, I would have completely broken me mentally.

I don't know if I could have done it. I think at that point I would prefer that they stuck some cyanide in me and like ended it right there. But I mean, if you're still putting on a smile and you're still fighting through it and shit, if you're still exercising day in and day out because of it, you're stronger man than I, stronger person than I, you know? So when it came to being with her, I always had to put on like an extra smile, I guess, so to speak. Like I had to bring out the extra smile just so that, you know, since I knew this person was already putting so much effort into keeping sane themselves, I didn't want to bring them down from right. Like, that's the last thing.

Like we're in a relationship. I don't want to like, you know, drag you down. now, you know, if you're working so hard to be where you're at. And also, in a way, dragging two. I'm going to need a minute. This is, this is quite the curveball. It's not what I was expecting. Yeah.

It's an interesting, it's an interesting, like, point, man, because when we're talking about the loss of loved ones, it all sort of ties back to that beginning, right? Like, the loss of loved ones is, I mean, you're the psychologist, but I know there's never like a one-track answer to any of this. never like a one straight up solid answer to how to deal with for impending doom or any of this nature. You know, what makes you think there isn't one solid answer? Because human beings aren't,

you know, computers, right? There's no like one program you can run and, you know, get a finite result of the end, right? Like, the brain is different. And again, I'm not a psychologist, but I like to think that human beings are much more complex than, you know, we let on. So it's like, When it comes to grief, everyone goes through it in a different way. Who knows? That's where my mind is. Okay. So there are a couple of different directions.

I'm honestly, Moot. I'm going to need your help. And I hope you're not getting this as like, you know, like you're so messed up that I can't. It's really more about that. No, I know. Okay. So it's really just about choice because I think there are a couple of, there are just a couple of really important conversations that we could. have from this point forward. And I'm having trouble choosing and I was hoping you could help me

pick. Okay. So one is, you know, we could talk more about your friend who, it sounds like, is terminally ill, which, and relating to that, there's just, we could talk about that. We can also talk a little bit about, and also relating to that, like, I think there's an important conversation to be had about showing weakness. And I know it sounds kind of weird, but like, I've worked with like terminal cancer patients, uh, uh, mostly cancer. And, and sometimes, you know, the family's trying to be like really, really strong for this person, but like actually what, like everyone's just pretending to be part of a play where like no one is being authentic and it really doesn't, like, it can actually be like really wonderful to let people who you care about know that life is hard for you too.

It can actually be like really, really healing to, I know it sounds kind of weird, but have the terminally ill person comfort you. Like it can mean a lot to them. It can mean a lot to you. Like, and it's kind of weird, but you kind of feel like they're the only ones that need support. Whereas I know, you know, for a lot of people, if you really think about love, like what is someone, you know, you want to take care of. her and presuming she feels the same way like she wants to take care of you. So in a weird way, one of the nicest things you can do for her is to let her take care of you. So there's a conversation there. If you want to talk more about that, that's fine. I've also noticed that, you know,

you're talkative. And so I think we can just kind of meander a little bit. Yeah, we can meander. And you can just, I'm happy to just listen because I think you're saying a lot of important things that need to be said. And the third thing that I was, it was just sort of what I was originally kind of hinting at when I offered this hypothetical, but was just sort of trying to understand like where does making sure come from? Like where does that complex in your mind? If I were to call it something, I'd call it the making sure monster. Because it's interesting because you say like my brain. won't let me, which then begs the question, what is your brain and what are you? But I think what we're really talking about is like it's the making sure monster, right? So if you sit down and

you do nothing for 15 minutes, the making sure monster will be like, no, no, no, like you should be doing something. That way we can make sure that something, you know, that this will go well tomorrow. So it's, you know, we can kind of leave it up to RNG. We can go down talking about, you know, loss of loved ones and sort of what makes it hard for you to express vulnerability, or we can talk about the origins of the making sure monster. I feel like if I do the making sure monster, I'll be able to learn about myself more. I'd rather. I want to deal with the making sure monster. I feel like that's a mentality that's going to be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life to get out of. Yep, I would agree. I think that's going to be the most useful. So let me ask you

something. How long have you been making sure? 15, 60? Okay. You sure it's not even before that? Wow, you're really, you're really getting me about elementary school all the sudden. Jesus. You're getting me all the way back to the sixth grade with that. I wouldn't say it was like as insane, but yeah, I guess I was making sure since. Tell me about the sixth grade. Sixth grade, we ended up moving for a bit, like a couple months. And this is the time when I was moving back and forth from Canada and the States.

and there's a period when I got into Canadian school again that they told me that I was going to fail the sixth grade because I guess things were going to try. Maybe I had to do a reason. And God, I remember my parents being there with the teacher that day. We were having this long discussion. And my parents, they weren't mad at me, but I thought they were. They thought it was stupid.

How the hell do you have to repeat the sixth grade? They never said it, but in my head, that's the only thing that I could think of, Right? I never asked him about that. I never bothered to. What am I going to ask my parents that I'm a fucking idiot? So I didn't. And it was at that point, I guess, is great that I had to make sure that I go to middle school. Right? I go to the seventh grade. I go one more up. So I made sure by then, and I guess it wasn't, I hate to say that I was making sure ever since then, because I don't think the feeling is something that I recognized until I was 15.

and 16 when I when I knew that I had the feeling that I guess if I had sixth grade was that point. I honestly, I hate to say it, but I also very much remember I don't remember a whole lot of my life

of this before the sixth grade. Like I know that sounds weird to say because people should have memories of it, but I've lived such a blur at this point that when I think, you know, like what was grade 5, 4, 3, 2? Like I've forgotten like teacher names at the point. Like, I've forgotten, you know, every, like, I've forgotten, you know, the

files and I've also forgotten, well, I've forgotten the course details as well, too. Fine that I can understand, but I should be able to remember a chunk of it. Were you worried about needing to repeat a grade? Like, did you have any inkling before that conversation with that teacher and your parents that things could have gone wrong? Yeah, no, and the teacher told me, right? Like, my parents, I had that, but, uh, did I have any like I think I was too young to understand the idea of when I had to. So I didn't know about that. Oh, sorry.

Your voice clipped out there for a second. Oh, yeah. But I don't think that I like when my teacher told me that I had to do it when my parents had to come and that's when I knew. I don't think I had a realistic understanding of what it meant like to repeat the grades. No. Can you just tell me as much like, do you mind just telling me like a brief story about the sequence of events and like what you remember? Like, I'd love to hear a little bit more detail what happened and how it happened. So for us, when we started the, when we started school again, right, in like September and everything,

things were fine. Probably up until November is when we had to, like, move to the States and everything. So we ended up switching schools out into the States. This is around Michigan. So we ended up going to Michigan in the sixth grade for me. I went to school there for a little bit until February or whatever. Like this was, you know, we immediately, uh, and then around February, my dad, you know, had to move back to Canada for his job and everything, right? And initially, I remember the time that my dad was moving back and forth, like he was coming back and forth from the states in Canada all the time. So eventually, you know, in that sixth grade, right? Like when I'm telling you, like November, we moved with my dad because we wanted, you know, I guess my mom and dad wanted us to be sort of like a family rather than my dad going. out and here and then. But when I came back, you know, in February to school, I, I guess the system

was so different that I may have had to repeat the sixth grade because I was missing like a chunk of the curriculum. So around the time of, you know, February when like this came up, right, like, and at this point, March it started to roll in and this was a week before March break. So like my teacher, you know, they brought in my parents, they talked about what I'm missing out of the curriculum. So I remember I had to read like two books. I had to. I had to do like a big like project, a big project, you know, sixth grade project, like something you do over the weekend, like put stuff on cardboard paper or whatever. I had to do a bunch of these reports or whatever. Basically, I had to do the entire curriculum of six months school, you know,

and I did it all in March break. Like I asked my teacher, I'm like, can I just have all of what I missed and can I just do it for you? So I remember I spent that entire March break. I didn't go outside. I didn't play or do anything. I literally did a curriculum work. I'm like, I just work, right? In March, I read literally like two books. And back then, and you're in the sixth grade, right? Like a book is like, a book is like a commitment, you know? Yeah. Now it's like, now it's like nightly reading. So I'm doing this entire like, these two book reports. And I ended of getting it done in like two, three weeks. And it wasn't until the end of that entire year. Now my teacher's like, no, you'll be fine. You're going to the seventh grade. Like, I remember the day,

came where we all went into a room the entire sixth grade class. So it's like we were split, right? They started to give us sort of this middle school orientation where they split us up into different classrooms. They gave us like lockers. So they made us feel like we're in middle school, kind of going into high school. And the last day of school, they brought us into the room. It's like, congratulations. You all graduated. That was the most relaxing thing that I've ever heard in my life. Because I knew, I knew in my head, she was talking to me, you know? I knew in my head. She was talking to me. you know, I knew in my head she had to. The only reason she said that

is so that she could finally say, okay, I'm getting through school. I'm graduating finally. I'm not a total idiot. Like, you know. So when they were like assigning lockers and stuff, did you think that like that stuff may not apply to you? Like it applied to all of your friends. I mean, for the longest time, I was like,

I was like, what's the point of me doing this? I'm going to have to repeat sixth grade again. So until the last day came, it's like, you all graduated. And they gave us like our report cards and like those brown envelopes and shit. I was like, oh my God, I succeeded. I honestly, to this dad, I've never even asked anybody else if a teacher has said that to him, right? Like in the sixth grade, like it feels so foreign to me. Is it normal for a sixth grade teacher to tell the entire class, you all graduated?

It's elementary school. But I mean, for me, a kid who's on like that verge of failure, I guess, from what I know, who congrats, I succeeded. And then I go into the seventh and eighth grade. And I wouldn't say that I feel this, this moment of like, I guess I'm not, I guess I'm not. feeling of like making sure in the seventh grade but even when you go into the seventh grade they're telling you all right you're gonna need this and this if you want to go to high school

because we had like high schools we could apply to back then like those like uh I remember Cawthra the greater Toronto area was like this artsy sort of like college that people could apply to Gordon Grayson was like a business school that you could apply to um we were talking about high school application back then bro fucking insanity I'm to be honest with you but yeah that's what uh that's what we had to That's what I was doing back in the day. It felt, dude, I feel like it was, I grew up in, like, India abroad, you know? Because it's like, you know, you hear all the stories of, like, people back in India.

It's like, you need a 99% GPA to get into the best Indian universities imaginable. I'm like, fuck, man. Yeah. No one's getting that. It's kind of crazy, right? Because what I'm really hearing is, like, when, before your, your March break, you kind of have a sit down with your parents and your parents, what did they say? like I do you remember I remember like my mom was the one that was trying to like you know rationalize she's like you got to go to we're going to talk to your teacher she's going to give us all the

schoolwork and you're going to get it done you know you're going to have you're going to make sure that it's it's done right like that's what you can do my dad didn't really say anything to me like I don't remember anything my mom was the only one that walked me through it because she's like she is kind of like me she knows how to you know break things down flow chart your way through. So that's pretty much what my mom got me through. My dad didn't say anything. I asked them later on, you know, after, you know, my teacher's like, everyone graduated. I'm like, were you guys ever mad at me? My dad was like, no, he understood everything. But it was, it's also, dude, it's also weird from a social perspective, too, because when you're in the sixth grade and you know

your entire grade, because I grew up with some of these people, they're going a year ahead of you. and now you're getting like last year's kids coming up to you and everyone knows you're there like makes you feel even dumber than you usually are shit yeah no I think it's quite humiliating I'm wondering what do you imagine it's also yeah yeah go ahead go ahead no I was just saying like it's also kind of weird like I've carried that mentality

in college too because there was a period where I did some continuing education and like it only became normal for me when I ended up going education I was like oh wow there's people that are like 50 coming with me. Okay. My classmates are, you know, varying ages. People my, I was, me and my buddy were like, one of my closest friends now is we're the youngest people on our continuing education courses, because we were doing like after effects, uh, continuing education. And like, all of our peers were like 40, 45. So we're like, oh, okay. It's normal. Yeah. Cool. Sorry I get too chatty about it. When you want me to describe something, I will describe it.

No, I think it's wonderful. I think it. So I'm going to ask you kind of a weird question. Okay, There's going to be a weird question. Maybe weird emotions will come up. What do you imagine your dad was feeling during that meeting? I think he took it on himself. Because I think he came to the realization that him moving around a lot cost us. I think he even realized that when I think to an extent the conversation he had where he told me like, how do you know if you're going to be alive so many so years came up?

I think he has to know. Like, my dad's, my dad's a smart guy. He knows that he costs, you know, family that. And I feel terrible saying that. I feel like I'm calling my dad a terrible person for that shit. But it's not the truth. Like, we ended up fine, you know, but I think my dad realized that his action may have caused difficulty for me and growing up.

And even my brother. Like, I've never talked to brother about his school. He turned out just fine now. But I've never had that discussion too. So I feel like, to an extent, my dad has to know. He probably has that in his head. what dad doesn't realize. Yeah, so what do you, what do you think about that?

How does that, how does it feed? That makes you feel worse, though, if I'm making my dad go through that, yeah. Because, like, I feel like if my dad thinks that way, I'm like, then I feel like, wow, I guess I caught that shit in a way. And it's like, it doesn't even make any logical sense, but that's what my brain is doing to. Yeah, right? So, and so if you're strong for your dad, what does that do for him? I feel like that relaxes him in my head.

Like for me, I look at my dad. I'm like, okay, you're getting old now. So I'm your oldest son. So I got to step up and make sure that the rest of your retirement days are solid and relaxed. You know, like that's what I. To me, my parents are the most important thing. Yep. I do.

I go to bed like every once in a while. And I think of a day when they eventually have to. the past and everything. And I don't know how I like that's uncopable in my head because I'm like closest people I've ever had. And it's like regardless of what has happened. I don't know what I'll ever do. You know? Yeah. So you know how, okay, we're going to really go, I'm going to go hunting now. Okay. So I'm going to ask you a lot of specific and arguably leading questions. Okay. Let me know if it starts to feel weird. So you said that, you know, you, you've said several times actually during this conversation that you would have never let your dad know that him

moving around was hard on you. Yeah, I don't think I would want to, no. Right? So let's think a little bit about why not? Because I feel like he'd blame himself. Okay. Yeah. And so- blaming himself, yeah, no, it wouldn't be good for me. When you say wouldn't be good for you, How would you feel if your dad blamed himself? Yeah. I feel like I'm causing my dad some level of grief when I could have just kept it to myself. And maybe in blissful ignorance, life would have moved on. And all of this would have been a memory.

Okay. So I know it sounds kind of weird. And now I'm going to look for a particular answer. So when you don't tell your dad about what your experiences, when you don't open up to him, what are you doing? I'm lying to him, yeah. Sure, you're lying. So the word I was looking for is protect.

Yeah. What do you think about that? I want to say protect, but literally we just had a conversation not five minutes ago where I know that in his, he knows what he's done moving around and everything. So it's like, what am I protecting him from the fact that? Excellent. Am I protecting him from like him? I know the reality of the same. Okay, I feel like in some ways when I lie to him, I'm feeling like an idiot because he knows what, like he's not.

So some days, what am I even doing? Okay, so good. So go on with it. Yep. So this is where it was adaptive at one point. It's not stupid. It's just maladaptive because I think this is like literally that this is a pattern I see a lot where like when sometimes our parents in a sense do the best that they could. Right?

Like your dad did the best that he could. Oh, absolutely. And you love him and respect him for all the sacrifices he made. And it can't have been easy, like, for him to have to move, you know, every six months to, like, Michigan, Canada was rough, right? Yeah. And who bore the brunt of the situation that he was in? I mean, I don't know what his work life was ever like. You know, I don't know what he was doing in a professional career.

You know what I mean? Like, I was too young and I never asked. I don't know what, but I knew at the time, like, my mom was dealing with, you know, at one point, Dude, it felt like she was a single mom for a while, you know what I mean? Like literally when you see your dad like one weekend out of the month, you know, you're way closer to your mom. It felt like she was super alone. Me and my brother were just on my own too, you know?

Like we were just doing our life the way that we did it. We never had like, say, family normality. You know, have like, I guess everyone around me, I must be with their mom and dad. they were I was just always with my mom and even then I was always doing schoolwork or you know all that shit even the time when like I moved around and we live my dad work in that period it's like how do you how do you like how do you just make every you're cutting out sorry sorry oh I'm sorry I think it might be but it's like how do you move in like how do you move together as a

family, right? And then make it normal in a day. Like, how do you act like of how do you like participate in family active after like like when we moved in November together and we've started living like, okay. What's going on? Right? Like I guess we're together now. Let's whoopee. Yeah. It's just like it feels pretty artificial. Honestly, it still feels artificial to the stay. Even like even going all the way up to now, Like just I would say in a matter of like a few years ago, I started becoming closer to my family because there was a point where like I left like college, you know, like I left and went into the world and lived my life. And now I'm more participant in my family, at least direct family, now, now? How do you how do you get back to normal? Like how do you make something that you know is a normal life? We're going to help you with that. Yeah. Okay. So why do things in a family feel artificial? Why? Because they are artificial.

Okay. Right? Simplest reason. Yeah. And so I know it sounds kind of weird, but like, Muda, what I get the sense of is that like there's a lot hanging between you and your dad. And so like sometimes like like there's a lot behind what he told you like, you know, he's like you don't even know if you're going to be alive or. when you're 40, right? Like, that I'm sure that it's important for him to say. It sounds like it's a really important conversation. But do you get how, like, that's the output and there's a lot of, like, number crunching behind what he says? Like, does that make sense? There was a lot more to his answer to me that he was thinking that I just never picked up

on. Yeah, right? So, like, your dad doesn't just show up to you and he's like, hey, where'd you have for lunch today? Cool. Yeah. Are you going to be alive when you're 40? Like, what the?

That's not, right? So he's like thinking about something, processing, observing something within you, and then decides to like give you this particular package. Yeah. Right? So like he's been thinking about this. So like I think that what I think the reason that there's some amount of like artificiality is because you guys are both ignoring the same damn thing.

And so like, like, you know, and you guys have learned how to do this for a while because you all have been doing it now for like what sounds like, you know, a decade or two. Yeah. Where you all have learned. Yeah. You all have learned like not like because like it because it's interesting, right? So you're, you're, you watch Game of Thrones or have you read the book? I have watched maybe episode one of Game of Thrones. I've never been into that.

Yeah. Anyway. So like, you know, if there was a house of muda, the words would be. So each house has words. Right? So your house words are better dead than weak. Those are the words of house. The slogan on the house. The slogan on the house, exactly.

Like when you walk in, like that's what better dead than weak. And it's interesting, right? Because like when I hear that sixth grade story, like I totally get why your mind jumps there because, you know, you had a choice. Like you can be like, oh, shit, can I do six months worth of work in two weeks? I would rather be dead. Yeah. Right. So like, well, I mean, I don't want to fail. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So like, like I'm not going to be left behind. Like if I have to sacrifice two weeks of my life, I'm doing book reports. I'm gluing stationary stuff to cardboard. Yeah. I'm working in a, I'm in a sweatshop of my own for two weeks. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's a sweatshop that you've been in since the sixth grade. It's the boxing ring that round after round, never ever.

There's no, there's no like, it's not even like the roundover chills out. You know what I mean? It's like you just not like you have a 10 second break to drink water. No, you just keep going with a blow to blow. It's the sweat shop of your own making. And I think it's like, because I think back in the six rate, I realize I'm bouncing around a lot, right? Because I'm just going to start spitball in here.

But like, I think you kind of learned a really important lesson back then, which is that. It's, it's really interesting because it's that there are circumstances outside of your control and that your life can be. screwed by things that are like completely like outside of there's almost like a healthy amount of paranoia which I can imagine get set in the mind at that point yeah like you just can't count on like you never know when your teacher is going to call a conference like you never know and then if you work really really hard then you can like there's a way forward and the only thing you have to sacrifice is yourself.

And so like there's a lot there in that story about like, you know, sort of being put into bad situations because of other people, sort of not being able to rely on others. Like, you know, like your dad sort of like not really owning up to, you know, like why you're in that situation in the first place. Like not to say that you shouldn't have done the work or things like that. And it's not even to say that like he really had much of a choice because, you know, sometimes you just got to follow where the work is. Yeah.

But I think that's where like a really healthy conversation at that point really could have been, hey, son, I'm sorry you're in this situation. We have to do this because of work. I love you a lot. I, you know, I know you can do the work. Like, I'm sorry to put you into this situation. Yeah. But this is just the way that it has to be right now.

Like, what are you feeling as I say those things? I've never heard that out of his mouth actually I wish I wish well I mean I've heard half of that I never really uh that uh that God that perfectly exemplifies what you know the whole situation was like I know that he had to do his shit but

God some days I wish you wouldn't Yeah Some days I kind of wish he I kind of wish our family was God you know I take living in absolute abject shitty conditions if it meant my family is more together. Maybe that's why I keep thinking, you know, in some ways, if I ever get to be a dad, if, if that day ever comes, I don't want to have to be the one moving around. I don't want to have to be able to, you know, have everything in the most perfect way that I can, even if that means killing part of myself to achieve it, you know what I mean?

Sure. What I'm hearing from you is you want to make sure that your children never have to go through what you went through. Absolutely. And Muda is well worth sacrificing for that. Yeah. 100%. I, uh, you, you 100% hit my mindset right there. And you know, the thing is, I, in a way, I've, I've even told myself, I'm like, there's got to be some. wrong to. I've never sat down and did the original, you know, like, you know how you know how you do like the, the good and bad, you know, sort of tea table. I've never done that. I've never come across with bad.

I've always realized it's always good for the people around you. It's always good if you have kids for their benefit growing up. It doesn't really matter. Tough through it. You've already done it so far. What's another few decades, right? Sure. You know. So now we get to a really important question, right? So a little while ago I asked you, do you want this to change? And you said, you remember what you said? About the... What's going on?

I'm... So you were like, yeah, I think we're probably wrapping... We're probably hitting the limit. So I think you've done a lot of good work today. I'd love to tie it up for you a little bit more, but I think you should just process this. so I'm going to try to summarize, okay, and give us at least a stopping point. I'll make a couple recommendations. First is, like, when we talk about better dead than weak, got to make sure.

And you were like, yeah, this is the thing that has been like running my life and I want it to change. But now, after we talk about it, do you want it to change? I don't think so, no. Good. Right? So now we understand. Because what is the, and don't worry, we'll flip-flop you back and forth a couple times, okay? So like, because what would be the cost of you changing?

Everyone around me. Right? So, and what we're thinking about is like if you changed, if you started to become more indulgent, like, you could be subject to the whims of the world, right? Like, this goes back to control. Like, you're not going to give up the fucking control that your dad did not have. Like, you were going to move mountains to make sure that, like, you're going to make sure, right? Because it's like you're not going to be in that situation. where you have to do something that could potentially hurt your kids.

Yeah. Fuck that. Never. And so then the next question that I have for you is, what do you think your kids will do when they grow up if you do that? If I do what I'm doing right now? What are you going to learn and what are you going to teach them? I mean, if I had a kid, I feel like I could honestly, I feel like I pass on the same shit. Yep. I feel like I tell them, like, honestly, if I had a kid, I would tell them life for people like for you and me and our entire, like everyone around us, you've only got yourself.

Like I'm here. Like if I had my kid, I tell them, listen, I'm here in the ground. After me, you've got no one else but yourself. No one else that you can rely on. You better learn to fucking dig your heels in the ground and make something worthwhile or die like the world. rest of, okay, that's like, you can't like, And I think that's, I think that's what your dad taught you, right? Uh-huh. Because he's like, you got to do, like, is your dad weak? No. Not at all. No, he's a worked hard, yeah.

Yeah, right? Like, so he taught you that lesson too. He was like, if you have to commute to Michigan every single weekend, that's what you do to provide for your family. I look at my dad like this, you know, he, went to medical school twice, one in India, one over here, because you get your medical license in one part of the world, you don't get a carried over here. So, yeah, when I look at my dad and I look at all he had to do, like imagine across the

world at age 35. You're young, but, you know, you're hitting that middle age pretty fucking quickly. You got a wife, you got a kid, you got another kid on the way. like, shit. You know, you can either, my dad worked his ass off when I was, you know, there were days where when we moved into the GTA, we lived in an apartment in East Toronto. And I got to see my dad once out of the week, okay? Because back then, to pay for medical school again, he would have to be a choreo.

Right. So he would drive from Toronto all the way to Monaco, fucking insane drive back and forth day to, day, day to day to day to day to day. And I mean, at one point, the man fucking kills himself, right? Like, you have no personality. You have nothing. You got to do money to pay off these mounting debts. He taught you. And eventually.

Yeah. I'm going to interrupt. And he taught you this lesson, which you were going to pass on to your children, right? Yeah. And what is he trying to teach you now? I feel like he's trying to teach me that I have. to keep my shit together. I have to stand on my own two feet because there's not going to be anybody else out there that's going to do it for me. I also feel like you can't rely on anyone.

So I think if you pay attention to his last conversation, right, when he comes to you and he says, you don't know if you're going to be alive when you're 40. I think he's trying in his own way to tell you that, like, you know, I'm not so sure. Right? Like that sounds. Yeah, because he's lived it. Yeah. Right. So he's saying like, he's actually saying like, don't be like me. Mm-hmm. Dude, I just feel like, man, after all this shit, I feel like the only normal generation I've had to be after. Like as far as, I feel like after like this entire situation, the only like normal generation that I'll have a chance to make their own decisions and will have a chance of normality in this part of the world is the next generation after me. I feel like I'm already going through,

already going blow by blow. You know? But to live that normal life, that's what I'm only worried about, right? Because I've already been past it. My childhood's gone. You know, I'm an adult of this.

So I got to make sure it doesn't repeat itself. Yeah, so there's more there, right? There's a lot to talk about there, which is like, I'm sorry if my mic keeps cutting out, by the way. I just like,

I keep at the Discord light. So I don't know. Let me just. Yeah, yeah. Is it better now? Yeah, it seems better. Yeah. But I think sometimes it's when you move around.

But so here's what I'd say, Buda. Like, I know we've been at it for a little while. I think we've covered some good stuff. You know, the next generation, things like that. I don't think your generation is lost yet. I also don't think you're lost. And I think you can reclaim some of your childhood as well. But I want to leave you with a couple things to think about, okay?

Right. First is, I think you've got to talk to your dad. I think you got to have a lot of conversations with him. Yeah, we do. Right. That is that you say that, but man, in my head, that's like the hardest thing to ever achieve, man, to sit down with my dad and have this discussion. Holy fuck, dude, I would rather architect like entire server farms for a company and get over the Jesus Christ. It's too much, you know.

Yeah. So the good news is that, you know, if you want to, he can just watch this, although I imagine you'll be terrified. of him watching it because it's going to be hard to protect him if he listens to you, right? Absolutely. If he actually hears what you have to say. Like you see that and you want to protect him. You don't ever want him to watch this. And the reason you don't want him to watch this is because he may feel bad.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Right? So you got to be careful because I think in order for you and your dad to like really connect in the way that like sounds important to me, it's important to me, you have to fucking decide if it's important to you. But, you know, I think it's about talking. talking a little bit about, you know, like, because there's, I think there's a really healthy way to have the conversation, which is sort of, you know, you love him, you respect him, you

completely understand the sacrifices he made, he did the best that he caused, it was really hard. And it also kind of sucked for you. And if he's, if his narcissistic defense mechanisms are, are up, he'll get mad at you. And he'll say, you ungrateful little blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. but I think that the reason that those narcissistic defense mechanisms arise is because they arise to protect himself from his own guilt, right? And so I think that like, not, you don't have to blame him. I think you can just, but I think like it's, I don't like I don't blame my dad or anything of that nature.

You know, like at the end of the day, like I know, I'm completely understanding of what he's done. You know, like. Yeah. So it's not like my dad ruined my childhood, right? Of course. Yeah. So, so I, and I think if you. want an easy way. Okay, so I'm going to try to protect your brain. So like an easy way to enter

into a conversation with your dad is, is that you just revisit this conversation about like, are you going to be alive when you're 40? You just ask your dad questions like, hey, dad, like last week or a month ago or a year ago or whenever he had it. You remember you told me this thing. I was hoping to understand that. You don't have to talk about feelings. You don't have to talk about the past. You don't have to demonstrate weakness. He doesn't have to demonstrate weakness. And then I would ask him, so that's the first question. You feel okay asking that question? Yeah, I can ask it.

Okay. If it's like purely non, you know, like no confrontation, nothing edges. Yep, yep, yep. Easy questions. Okay, we're going to go nice and smooth. So then the next question is like, can you tell me a little bit about like what, you know, when you, when I was your age, like what was going through your head about your life? And ask him like, you know, what do you see, like how do you see me living my life?

What do you think about the way I'm living my life? What do you think I, you know, because he's saying that to you for a reason. And how did you live your life back then? How did you live your life in your 30s? What was it like to have to go through like residency again or medical school again? Yeah. You know? And just ask him questions about like his upbringing and stuff like that.

And then, you know, that's going to be safe. And then, you know, if you ever are able to or he may go there, you can all. also have a conversation about, you know, what it was like growing up and like just try to understand his perspective. Mm-hmm. And I think the closer you, you, the more he starts talking about you growing up, the closer y'all are going to get to emotions. And you have to decide whether you're comfortable talking about that.

Does that make sense? Yeah, no. Do I lead the conversation into where he was at my point in life and see what, you know, similarities? And, and you guys may have. have the ability to just communicate with each other without ever saying anything. But I think both of y'all need to know that like, like there's something needs to happen between y'all. Yeah. No, I think, I think it's to me, I feel like the way that I want this conversation to go is I want to like really talk about the commonalities we had. Because I know he's been

he's worked hard around my age too. So I want to see like, yeah, why. Like, I mean, when you're talking about this whole article repeating, it's. like this maybe it has repeated itself more literally than I'm thinking right now. Maybe maybe the parallels are just more there than it ever was, you know? Yep. Yep. And then I would I would also share with him. This may be actually safer because in the context of that conversation,

you can even tell him. Sometimes when I sit down and I like try to take a break, my mind tells me I should be doing more work. What do you think about that? Just ask him about that. Oh, I feel like we'll come across some real commonality because I know my dad, he's definitely one of those anxious people too. Yeah, yeah.

You can't take a break either. Yeah. And so I'd say start there. And I think more long term, this is going to be harder, but it's definitely doable. It's going to take some work. I think you have to learn how to like not be so sure about stuff, right? Like I think you've got to learn how to like let go a little bit and sort of know that you can do the most that you can do and you can do the best that you can do, but that like, you know,

that trust not in your ability to make things perfect. Trust in your ability for damage control. So basically flowchart less is my life, right? Instead of thinking of every day, thinking of every possible action, instead of making like, you know, every, like, because in my head, I think of every fine. Like, if I do this, it could, you know, lead to this or that or this or that. Maybe instead of, you know, making six or 70 different little boxes, have it all one box as a, this could happen. And I'm going to have to learn to adapt to it regardless of how it happens.

Yeah, sort of. So I wouldn't quite say flowchart less. But what I'd say is what you need to learn how to do is tolerate uncertainty. Because I think it's the uncertainty that terrifies you. And it's a lot of you trying. Because like, Muda, what you are is a control freak. Because uncertainty, you've learned that. that uncertainty is like just way too painful.

And over time, I think what you need to really do, otherwise you really are going to pass this on to your kids, which I'm sure that you'll, I mean, I'm not sure, but I imagine you'll have one day. I mean, I just think it's karma. It's just too, too much karma in your life to not have children. But like, I think it's, you've got to be a little bit careful because you have to understand,

that like some of some of your aversion to uncertainty, I think has come out of experiences that are like, like, because you learned early on that shit is out of your control. So like if you double down, I mean, that sixth grade story is perfect because it's like, random thing happens to you that could screw over your life.

Yeah. And all you have to do is sacrifice yourself, get into the ring, and then you can alter the course of fate. Mm-hmm. And so that lesson, is what you've has become a part of your fabric. You can cost yourself and you you don't have to like bring other people in.

It just takes you to win. You know, that's exactly. Yeah. And so I think as you kind of work on that, it's going to become important for romantic relationships and stuff like that. But I'd say start with your dad and, you know, there's more conversations. I don't know if you've ever worked with a therapist, but I think this is definitely the kind of stuff you can work with a therapist. I've never worked with a therapist, actually. I've always, again, like, it goes back to what you said before.

Like, do I feel weak when I open myself up? I don't think I could. It's hard for me to, like, go sit in front of anybody. Even if it's like so personally detached from me, like a therapist who, you know, I pay this person, we sit down, we talk, they professionally, you know, respond to me. It's still so difficult to let them into your head, you know. Has this been difficult? Oh, it's been incredible.

Well, this whole thing has been difficult. Like, I've been able to ease in with you. It's kind of like, you know, buddy talking. but it's just, I feel like, I feel like if this is, well, this is professional. I don't want to say that what we're doing isn't, it's, you know, it's not professional. But if this was a real professional setting, like, if I was sitting with you right now and like, in like an office, like laying down on one of those, you know, like, you know, therapist beds or whatever, I don't think I could do it, man.

I think I'd probably, I would walk out. I'd be like, you know what, man? Not for me. I'd get up in 10 minutes. I'd be like, bye. So what about doing this in front of thousands of strangers on the internet makes it easier for you than doing it alone in the privacy of the therapist? Oh, it's streaming. I'll be real with you.

When I first started streaming in front of like a couple hundred people, it used to be a little anxiety inducing. You just get that, that I will say you just get used to after a while. It becomes like a number you look at. Like, whatever, okay. It's just it's someone on like the other side of the world. Cool. It's not. It's also just, I don't know.

I've gotten used to seeing those number counts. Like, it's, it is what it is. Okay. All I know is me and you are talking. Yeah. So, Muda, I know it sounds weird, but that's the strange thing that I've discovered is that, like, actually a lot of people feel the same way you do. And that, like, almost doing it in the privacy of a therapist's office, which, you know, you're right that this isn't, we're more, you know, we're both like we're streaming here. We're more like contact creator colleagues just having a conversation.

But there is something strange about, you know, this being more. accessible, even though in theory, it should be like way harder to do. I don't understand it myself, but I totally get what I'm saying. Like, I feel like I'm just talking to a dude. We're just chilling. Yeah. You know, there's, it's like in a way, it's, I think it's like being there and you know why you're there. Like you understood. Like when we started this conversation, we didn't exactly have like a plan set or what we were going to attack or whatever, right? You know, we didn't like jump down into this. Like, this is what we're going to cut. Like, it just sort of led into one another. And it is, it is what it is, you know.

Has it been tougher at times during the conversation? Yeah. Has it been easier? Yeah. But, you know, it's a conversation I could go with. It's, again, I don't want to say it's not profession, but it's like you said, it's two dudes talking like. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I think it's, I mean, this is not therapy or medical advice. So, you know, there's a legal disclaimer of that, which. Yeah. But, but I mean, I think there's also something different. I think this is where a lot of people get confused because they sort of say like, because actually, you know, to just be, just to be perfectly honest, I would be saying, I would be saying and doing different things if the two of us were in our office and I was your doctor.

I would actually be doing things quite differently. But then the last thought is just, you know, if you're interested, then I mean, I would actually recommend a therapist in your case. But, you know, if that doesn't feel comfortable to you, we do actually have a coaching program for content creators, which they seem to, you know, so far the content creators seem to be happy. We can send you some info if you're interested. but I'd be interested in that, yeah. Yeah. So it's some stuff around work life balance and things like that. But any questions for me, Muda, before we wrap up?

I know we've been at it for a while. You've been doing a fantastic job, by the way. It's hard. No, I honestly, I feel like you've given me the roadmap to have a discussion with my dad at some point. So when this lockdown is a little more eased up, I think I'll take him out to dinner, just me and him somewhere, and we'll have this conversation. That's the only thing I'm looking. like really forward to actually now.

Like I'm not so much scared of doing that. I want to, you know, it's just something that I feel like needs to happen. I feel like it needs to be discussed. You either do it now or you let it screw up another, you know, section of your life. Yeah. But yeah, that's where I want to go to now. That's like the next big point. Yeah, well, Muda, thank you so much for coming on, man.

And I really hope the conversation goes well, you know. We'll do. I'll let you know. I'll tell you about it. Yeah. And, you know, if any other questions or anything like that pop up, just let us know. We're happy to try to support you. You love the work that you do.

Can you just tell us before we kind of tap out where we can find you and what kind of work you do? You guys can find me at YouTube.com slash Some Ordinary Gamers. Twitter is at Ordinary Gamers. And you've really asked me the burning question that I've been asked myself what my channel is about. it's really anything, guys. I make videos about tech. I comment on random stuff. Sometimes I laugh at really stupid shit.

I don't even know when I'm uploading some days, okay? Let me just tell you that much. Yeah. But yeah, that's what I do. I think, Muda, your channel is a fantastic example of producing content that the Rando ADHD gamer mind loves to consume. Yeah. You do a good job of actually just like, you know, it's like, it's not always the same

thing, but it seems to be in the same general ballpark of attitude and theme. Yeah. So you all should check out some ordinary gamers. So thanks a lot for coming on, man. Good luck. Yeah, man. Good luck with you too. Take care, man. Take care. Okay. All right. So that interview was phenomenal. I think that guy is fantastic.