Heavyweight - #51 The Elliotts

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

In 1525, the Archbishop of Glasgow placed a curse on the Elliott family. Now, 500 years later, one very unlucky branch of the Elliotts wants it lifted. Credits Heavyweight is hosted and produced by Jonathan Goldstein. This episode was produced by supervising producer Stevie Lane, and Mohini Madgavkar. The senior producer is Kalila Holt. Special thanks to Emily Condon, Alex Blumberg, Valentina Powers, Max Green, Damiano Marchetti, and Jackie Cohen. The show was mixed by Bobby Lord.  Music by Christine Fellows, John K Samson, Michael Hearst, Blue Dot Sessions, Sean Jacobi, Gideon Freudmann, Hew Time, Jaybird Blonde, Roma, and Bobby Lord. Our theme song is by The Weakerthans courtesy of Epitaph Records. Dillon Elliott has been volunteering for a suicide-prevention organization, Samaritans, for years. To find out more about their important work, visit www.samaritans.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What? I'm trying to remember. Do you have any celebrity impressions that you do? No. Didn't you used to do Celine Dion? No, I didn't do Celine Dion. You used to do the theme song to the Titanic? No, that was Karen.

Karen used to sing that song? Karen does sing that song. Does she have a nice voice? No. Because guess who I have on the other line, Karen? Did that scare you? It did get me a little nervous. Did it not make you feel alive?

A little scared. A little scared? Yeah. She doesn't have a nice voice. Wait one second, she's back on the line. It's Karen. Oh, Jackie. How could you say that about my singing? From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, The Elliotts.

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I have a big one for you, the heaviest weight yet. Dylan's email was over the top, clickbaity even. Hi Dylan, how are you? Nice to meet you, Jonathan. But who among us is inured to the lure of clickbait? Dylan Elliott lives in Dublin, and the story he tells me, you'll have to hear to believe. Dylan says that when he and his family get together, their favorite thing to do is share stories of their misfortune, mysterious ailments and plumbing disasters,

near drownings and dental procedures gone terribly awry. They always come away from these sessions wondering the same thing. How can one family have so much bad luck? A few years ago, there was a large family gathering. Dylan says

that at a recent family wedding, he and his brothers were going around the table enumerating their woes as usual, when their father suddenly interrupted them. And my dad came out and said, well, you don't know about the curse? The Elliot curse? Dylan and his brothers looked at each other. What Elliot curse? They'd never heard of such a thing. brothers looked at each other. What Elliot curse. They'd never heard of such a thing.

And so their father offered what would prove to be a unifying theory of their terrible luck. He began at the beginning. The very beginning is 1525. About 500 years ago, Scotland and England were at war over the territory along their border. The people who lived along these borderlands were hardest hit. And so they were left in this nomadic position where the only living they could make was by going back and forth across the border and thieving. Thieving and pillaging and maiming, as well as murdering. What they had to be as a culture was extremely friendly, but also really murdery.

Because, like, if you've got to be moving from area to area, you have to be very open to people because there could be trades going on. But if they wrong you, you've got to kill them immediately. And these people, these friendly murdery people who lived along the border, were called... Border Reavers. You say Reavers? Yeah, Reavers. What are those?

It's kind of like the exact opposite of a weaver. So where weavers make clothes, reavers were kind of like murderers. Wait, weavers make clothes, but reavers are murderers? Yes. Which technically isn't the opposite of making clothes. It's quite far away, though, in fairness. It is, it is. Yes. It's quite far away, though, in fairness. It is, it is. But probably the opposite of making clothes would be like maybe ripping up clothes.

And stealing, I guess. Yeah, again, not necessarily the opposite, but I get it. Yeah, it's the other end of the spectrum. Sorry. Bless you. Thank you. That's the opposite of a curse, by the way, to bring it back to opposites. Dylan says there were a number of Reaver family clans, but one of the biggest, most notorious, least Weavery, and most murdery of all were the Elliotts. And that's you, you're Dylan Elliot? Yeah. In 1525, the then Archbishop of Glasgow,

desperate to deter the Reavers, placed a curse on them, the aforementioned Elliot curse. Shall I read the curse to you? Please. I cursed their heads and all the hairs of their head. I cursed their face, their brain, their mouth, their nose, their tongue, their teeth, their forehead, their shoulders, their breast, their heart, their stomach, their back, their womb, their arms, their legs, their hands, their feet,

and every part of their body from the top of their head to the soles of their feet, before and behind, within and without. As a Jew raised on Yiddish curses, my bubba's, may you hang upside down like a chandelier, most often levied against my grandfather for losing the TV remote, was about as bad as it got. It sounds worse in Yiddish, but still, it's nothing compared to this curse. I curse them going and I curse them riding. I curse them standing and I curse them sitting. This curse reads like a children's book written by a serial killer.

I would curse them here or there. I would curse them anywhere. I curse them within the house. I curse them outside of the house. I curse them at home. I curse them away from home. I curse them rising and falling. I curse them at home, I curse them away from home, I curse them rising and falling. Their cattle, their wool, their sheep, their barnyards, their cow sheds, their cabbage patches.

Even their cabbage patches. Their horses, their swans. And it's not just the reavers themselves that the Archbishop dams, but anyone remotely associated with them. the Archbishop dams, but anyone remotely associated with them. I forbid all Christian men and women to have any company with them, eating, drinking, speaking, praying, lying, going, standing, under the pain of deadly sin.

And just when you think there's nothing left to curse... Okay. May the thunder and lightning which rain down upon Solomon... For a full three minutes, Dylan continues on, with wildfires and dyspepsia, pestilence and plagues, until finally,

I condemned them perpetually to the deep pit of hell, there to remain with Lucifer and all his fellows, then ripped and torn by dogs until they forbear their open sins and make satisfaction and penance. Yeah, that's a curse. Back at the family wedding, seated around the table, Dylan says he remembers that when his dad was done reciting

excerpts from the curse, he was met with stunned silence. You almost expect people to laugh when they hear a curse like that, but there wasn't really a laugh. The reaction in the room was this kind of aha moment where everyone's like this makes total sense. This explains why so many weird

things have happened to our family. Weird, and also weirdly specific to the curse. Dylan tells me about the soles of his feet. He was born flat-footed. And his tongue. He was born tongue-tied. And regarding the I curse you away from home part of the curse...

I got mugged three days in a row in Paris. Oh my. And each morning I went out and I bought the slightly shittier phone than I'd had previously. Until eventually I had a phone which is like an old person's phone with giant buttons on it. And I got mugged for that one as well. So I got mugged three days in a row in Paris. Like three separate occasions by three separate muggers? Yeah. Three separate muggers, three nights in a row.

What? That's insane. That's insane. I was trying to work it out one time. I think the odds of getting mugged in a given year are 0.3%. So what are the odds of getting mugged three days in a row? It's like getting struck by lightning and winning the lottery at the same time or something. And Dylan says it's not just him. He tells me about his brother, a talented gardener who can grow anything except cabbages. The one thing that's mentioned in the curse, the curse says, I curse their

cabbage patches. And he can't grow cabbages. He can't grow brassicas at all. I've been pretty successful growing all different types of vegetables. This is Dylan's younger brother, Rory Elliott. But like the cabbages in particular, like always seem to be afflicted by some kind

of like mold or fungus. Then, there's Rory's feet. My mom always said that my feet were like that of a buzzard's. Pretty much talons, yeah. And his eyes. I tore my cornea. I had to wear an eye patch. And mouth. I've had so many mouth ulcers.

I've just been worried that it's, like, the curse trying to stop me talking to you guys. Rory is a scientist, so he knows that believing in curses is crazy. But he also knows the value of hard data. And the evidence is semi-undeniable. Like, how the archbishop curses them going and curses them riding? I assume that he meant riding horses,

but I guess it covers bicycles. Okay, what has happened? Like, for instance, one time I was cycling to get some seaweed to put on my crops because they weren't doing very well. His crops being the cabbages. Rory was getting seaweed for his cabbages. And there was an iron bar in the ground,

and then I ended up going head over the handlebars and flying headfirst into a dog food factory. Sorry, did you say you flew into a dog food... What? A dog food factory. Yeah. Okay. Broke my wrist.

I broke my arm. I needed a lot of stitches. That was fairly cursed. On a logical level, I'm not superstitious at all. But I am a little bit superstitious. This is Dylan's other brother, Tim Elliott. Tim is waiting to receive funding for his PhD in history. In the meantime...

I'm a sort of... Just a freelance person. What do you freelance at? Um... Not really much. So, not really much. If Dylan is rather Eeyore-like, and Rory is something of a negative Nelly, then Tim is like Charlie Brown, if Charlie Brown were looking for PhD funding.

And given the curse, well, I mean, who would have much hope for that? Like his brothers, Tim lists off sorrows specific to the curse, well, I mean, who would have much hope for that? Like his brothers, Tim lists off sorrows specific to the curse. He went bald in his 20s, has teeth with holes in them, and his feet? When I was born, my feet pointed outwards. And then I was put in these shoes. So you think, okay, here comes the solution. But then they pointed inwards we're overcorrected. Then there's the muggings.

While Dylan's been mugged a paltry three times, Tim's been mugged five times? Yeah. One of them, I was mugged while I was dressed as a robot. I'm so sorry. That just really surprised me. It feels wrong to laugh at someone's misfortunes. But then, when the follow-up question you're forced to ask a grown man is,

Why were you dressed as a robot? It seems acceptable somehow. It was Halloween. I was dressed as a robot called the Timtron 5000. I mean, I put so much effort into it. I had a set of lights going on in my chest, blinking. I had a police siren on my head, spinning. I'm imagining you like in a box wrapped in tinfoil or something.

You were exactly bang on. I was with a group of friends, all dressed differently. I think there was a bumblebee there, there was a pirate. There was... I'm sorry, yeah. So the Tim Tron 5000, the bumblebee, and the pirate were walking along when they were suddenly approached by a group of kids. And when I say kids...

Really? The ringleader demanded Tim hand over the beers he was carrying. But Tim refused. So he pulls out this pocket knife and he says, I'm going to, you know, what do you think about this? Now, if you recall, Jonathan, I'm wearing nothing but cardboard boxes. Oh, I recall. So the bumblebee, the pirates disappear.

And I'm not quite as fleet of foot. And I get pushed onto my back like a tortoise. Completely unable to get up. The kids pulled the siren from Tim Tron 5000's head, roughed him up a bit. Did you report it? Yeah, we got the police

and we sort of just said, well, I mean, what do you expect? With my family, it's like, it's shorthand now. Here's Dylan again. Like, we just roll our eyes and go, ah, fucking curse. The misfortunes that you, that you mentioned. I mean, do you literally feel like they're connected to this 500-odd year curse?

I think, it's like this, Jonathan, in my head. It's like, if you've got 500 years of people wishing you ill, it cannot be good for your soul. Dylan says that since the old Archbishop of Glasgow levied the curse, the present-day Archbishop is the only person with the power to lift it. Others have made appeals to him, but he's never responded. What I'd love is the curse to be lifted. We will do anything to lift this curse.

And so, Dylan has come to me for help. I did notice that there was something in the curse about anybody who helps you. I think they're cursed too. It's any Christian man. All Christian men who speak to me are cursed by proxy. I think being Jewish, you're actually excused. Oh, because I am not Christian. That gives me a leg up.

I think so, yeah. Is that the loophole here? Is that why you came to me? It wasn't because of my previous good works. It was just because I'm a Jew. Which brings us back to his email about how lifting the curse would be the biggest heavyweight yet.

Because the curse isn't limited to just the Elliotts. It encompasses all the Reefer families. I mean, there's 300,000 Elliotts in the world. How many Armstrongs and Scotts and Nixons and Dixons and Pringles? Not to sound like one of those seedy personal injury lawyers, but if your name is Scott or Douglas, Reed or Robson, Nixon or Dixon, you may be entitled to karmic compensation.

I'm trying to find the exceptions to the rules, you know what I mean? Like you mentioned Pringles, like, well, you know, they had those canisters of chips, so they probably did okay. Can you tell me if antipacular Pringles not felt a little bit cursed afterwards? Well put. Dylan and his brothers are tired of their mouth

ulcers and tooth holes, tired of wearing eye patches and getting beaten up by children. They're ready to live their best lives. If we got this lifted, what would the ensuing days look like if you had to speculate? For me, it would probably be getting something. To do your PhD? Yes.

I want to be able to grow cabbages, because I actually love cabbage. I don't know, I would just love to be able to grow cabbages because I actually love cabbage. I don't know. I would just love to be able to grow cabbages. Okay. Cabbages. And what else? Yeah. Mainly the cabbages.

Like, I really love cabbages. Like in stir fry, soups. I don't know. Yeah. Mostly cabbages. We're going to get you, Elliot, turned around. We're going to erase the chalkboard. Fresh new start.

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there's a whole organization of descendants of border reavers named Elliott. The site contains a history of the Elliot family, a map of Elliot territory, and a list of famous Elliot's, like T.S. Elliot, the poet who dared not eat a peach, and Sam Elliot, the push-broomed, mustachioed actor who, safe to say, should probably also stay away from peaches. And then, there's the page with the transcript of the curse. Underneath it, there are reams and reams of comments. Stephen Kyle Elliott posts

that he's the only member of his family in four generations that hasn't been to prison or had problems with drugs. I try to do right and be a good person, but I always seem to have the most bad luck possible, he says. Mary Elliot cites cancer, airplane crashes, and fires. Long before I ever heard of this curse, I felt a curse had been put on our family, she writes. Believe me, the curse is alive and well. Hello? Hello, is this Margaret Elliott? Yes, it is. Margaret Elliott is the chief of the Elliott Clan Society. This is Jonathan Goldstein calling from the American podcast. I know, how exciting. It is my held belief that setting off on a quest to lift a 500-year-old clan curse requires the blessing of a clan chieftainess.

Margaret Elliot sounds like someone who owns at least a dozen and a half Welsh corgis. And like real nobility, she says she inherited the role from her father, who was chief before her. With the title, does there come a dwelling, like the way the President of the United States gets to live in the White House?

No, unfortunately not. To begin, Margaret proudly shares some fun facts about the Elliot family. The Canadian Prime Minister was an Elliot. His middle name was Pierre Elliot Trudeau. Pierre Eliot Trudeau. Pierre Eliot Trudeau traced his lineage back to the Eliot clan.

I didn't know that. Yes, you did. Yeah, my middle name is Stuart. Is it? When I get down to explaining my mission, Margaret tells me she's known about the curse her whole life. It's a part of Elliot's history. But at the same time... I don't pay this any attention at all.

Yeah. I mean, this is the first time I've ever actually talked about it. I've never thought it was remotely important. It's important to her constituents, though. I tell her about Dylan and his brothers, the eye patches, the constant muggings, the cabbage problems. I don't think he can blame it.

I think maybe he's got the wrong sort of ground for cabbage. Yeah, the cursed kind. Although Margaret doesn't put stock in curses, she still blesses the mission and even offers to help. Well, I mean, I could probably get an archbishop on the phone. You think you can get an archbishop on the phone. You think you can get an archbishop on the telephone? Why not? Wow, I really appreciate your good old American moxie on that one.

What does that mean? What does good old American moxie mean, Margaret? It's throwing a bottle rocket into a trash can just to see it go boom. It's staring down your enemies while picking your teeth with a corndog stick. It's sewing a Canadian flag onto your backpack when traveling through Europe, so when you toss a bottle rocket into some Parisian poubelle, Canada looks like the idiot. Moxie is getting a bishop on the horn and greeting him with a big fat American howdy-do. Have you ever reached out to an archbishop before?

No, I know a bishop or two, but no, I don't have. It'll be interesting. I will follow it up. You've inspired me. Wow, okay. That isn't often what I do, so I appreciate that. Very good. Margaret is on the case. But before getting off the phone, she counsels me against talking to other Elliotts about the curse. If they're blissfully unaware, she says, why share something that will only trouble them? To illustrate her point, Margaret tells me about an art installation memorializing the curse. It's called The Cursing Stone, and it's a 14-ton granite boulder with the curse inscribed upon it.

It was commissioned by the city of Carlisle in 2001. I think it was fairly unwise. Why? I don't believe in this curse, but there are people who do, like your friend Dylan. And I think it is unwise to bring it out again, because it alarms people. But the fallout caused by the stone suggests it more than alarmed people. Following its installation, the city experienced a series of disasters. The worst flood in 200 years.

An outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. Numerous businesses and factories shutting down, among them notably a bar called The Reaver Pub. And the local soccer team, Carlisle United, lost so many games, they were relegated to a lower league.

So I speak with the artist who sculpted the cursing stone, Gordon Young of the border-reeving Young Clan. But despite the biblical plagues unleashed by his art, Gordon doesn't put any stock in the curse at all. Do you think there's anything suggestive about the timing, you know, like just after the unveiling of your work and all of these misfortunes occurring? Do you see anything? Not at all, no. You don't admit that the timing is sort of interesting?

No. Do you feel like you've been affected by the curse? Do you feel that you're unluckier than your friends? I feel a lifelong saying would be, if I fell down a toilet, I'd come up smelling of roses. And I feel I have been very, very, very lucky all my life. Gordon's answer surprises me. So, I conduct an informal survey.

an informal survey. Turning to the phone book, I dial random Elliot's to see how unlucky they are. Hello, is this Dale Elliot? Yes, it is. Hello, is this Tanya Elliot Hensby? Yes. I even phone a real estate agent

on a lawn sign. And I reach out to Margaret's Elliot Society clan officers all across the USA. You're a state commissioner for Alabama? Arkansas, but yeah. I'm the commissioner for Klan Elliott in Texas, yes. Yes, I'm the Northern California commissioner for it. I ask if any of them have experienced the things the Elliott brothers have.

The inability to ever grow cabbage. Any dental problems? Do you own cattle or sheep growing cabbage? Are you bald? But it seems they haven't. Nope. No? No.

No, I'm a gorgeous redhead. So I find myself wondering whether ill fortune might be less a border reaver problem and more a Dylan, Tim, and Rory problem. What was going on with the Elliott brothers? Why all the bad luck? And was the curse really to blame for it? Since Dylan, Tim, and Rory's dad, David, was the one who first told them about the curse, I wonder if he would have any insight.

So I reach out to David, but at the last minute, he balks. Dylan says it's because his dad is nervous that even talking about the curse could exacerbate it. But in David's stead, Dylan's Aunt Jo agrees to talk to me. Hello, Johnson, how are you? I'm okay, how are you today? Not too bad, I'm very glad it's Friday. In the background, I can hear Jo pouring something into a glass. What is it that you're drinking? You? I'm okay. How are you today? Not too bad. I'm very glad it's Friday.

In the background, I can hear Joe pouring something into a glass. What is it that you're drinking? Oh, Pinot Grigio. Is that all right? It's absolutely okay, yeah. I sometimes think that I could tell what someone's drinking, but it's a little piccadillo of mine. I ask Joe about her family, whether they're a bunch of magical thinkers, like, say, someone who thinks he can tell what beverage someone is drinking over the phone. Maybe they've over-indexed on

this whole curse thing. Was your upbringing superstitious? Did your parents have rituals and stuff like that? Well, I was brought up by my grandparents. And then, Jo tells me the reason she was raised by her grandparents. Our parents died when we were all very young. Your parents died around the same time? Yeah, yeah, they died in a car accident. Oh my, I'm so sorry. Yeah. And they were together?

Yeah, yeah. Has that ever struck you as a bit of bad luck? It was really bad luck, right? I mean, that's like the worst luck ever, almost. Jo was only four years old at the time of the accident, so she doesn't remember the day. But she does remember learning about the death of her parents for the first time. I was able to read, so I must have been about six. And I found a

newspaper cutting in my grandmother's chest of drawers. And I could see that my name was in there and my sister's name was in there. And I could see it was talking about two people. And I wasn't sure who their names were, but it sounded really sad to me and it had this really big long word at the top of it so I went and asked my grandmother what it was and she said well that that word is an obituary and these people are your mum and dad and they're dead I do have a few memories. When my dad used to go out to work, I used to have to help him put his socks on. The day my dad went in to tell the teacher off in school

because she was really horrible to me. And I remember being woken up in the middle of the night to come downstairs and see the new toys that my dad had brought home from work. It was a little red tea set. I remember the first time I tasted Chinese food because my mum was ill in bed and my dad brought me in to taste the Chinese food and there was pineapple on it and I'd never had pineapple before. and I'd never had pineapple before. Joe says that after her parents' death,

she and her six siblings were all split up, sent to different relatives. It took them many years, not until they were adults, to all reconnect. Do you think this family trauma has kind of cast a pall over David's kids? There is no doubt in our family that our parents' death was, oh my goodness, catastrophic in a lot of ways. It was terrible. It's a big sadness, and I think they picked that up.

terrible. It's a big sadness, and I think they picked that up. When you're a kid, it's a scary thing to learn that tragedy can strike at any moment for no reason, that there's no insulation between you and the darkness. Joe doesn't think the curse caused the accident, but the accident might have given the idea of a curse a certain allure. It offered an explanation for something unexplainable. Growing up, Dylan and his brothers heard about their grandparents' death, were raised with the feeling of a vague dark cloud that hung over the family. But now, they've given that dark cloud a name, the Curse of the Elliotts. And what you can name, you can vanquish. and what you can name, you can vanquish.

What do you think that lifting the curse might change for David or for your nephews? It might give a breathing space. And I don't know why I've said that word or that phrase, but that's just what it feels like. A breathing space. Yeah. Regardless of how Margaret Elliott or any of the 300,000 Elliotts feel about the curse, these three Elliotts, Dylan, Rory, and Tim Elliott,

they believe in it. And I'm going to help these Elliotts by lifting this curse once and for all. My greatest hope for lifting the curse lies with Elliot Clan Chief Margaret, who promised me a bishop. But at this point, I haven't heard from Margaret in weeks, so I send an email asking for a progress report. When she replies, I'm surprised by her terseness.

No bishop, she writes. I really think there is no point in pursuing this and your friend who complained about his baldness and not growing cabbage will have to put up with it and not blame an entirely irrelevant 16th century curse I'm not sure how to account for the shift in Margaret's tone until I read this I would be grateful if you would not contact any more clan officers and alarm them unduly.

It seems some of the Elliotts I spoke to, ever loyal to their chieftain, ratted me out, telling Margaret how I'd been pestering them about their bad luck. As chief, Margaret wants to protect her flock, and not from the curse of the Archbishop, but from me. It looks like I'm on my own. On the Archdiocese of Glasgow's website, I find the name of the Archbishop's Director of Communications. Mr. Convery.

Hi. Thank you so much for talking to me. No problem at all. I'm glad to be able to chat. I explained to Ronnie Convery about Dylan and his brothers, the robot muggings, the dog food factory. He's worried that the curse from whatever 500 years ago is affecting his daily life.

Yes. Hardy har har, if you will, Ronnie Convery. But I thought stuff that happened hundreds of years ago and still affects daily life is the church's bread and butter. Of course, I'm too cowardly to actually say that. But I do say this, albeit mincingly. Why can't the Archbishop just lift this one little old curse just this one little old time?

It's not going to happen. It's not like the Archbishop puts on a stole and goes into the cathedral and mutters a few prayers in Latin and sprinkles some holy water around and everything's fixed. I mean, there is no such ceremony for lifting curses. And even if there were a ceremony, Ronnie says there's no one to perform it. The last Archbishop died just recently,

and appointing a new one can take months, even years. Is this something that the Pope could lift? I've no idea. To be honest, I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out how you could speak to the Pope, because, you know, you'd be here till Doomsday, and you wouldn't get near the Pope on something like this. Yeah, he's a busy man, I'm sure. I mean, it's not like

you could just call the Vatican switchboard and ask to speak to the Pope. Absolutely not. Pronto, Vaticano. Turns out, you can call the Vatican switchboard, but the problem... Italiana.

Italiana. Is there anybody that speaks But the problem... I never imagined the Vatican to be the kind of mom-and-pop operation where you'd have to wait for somebody's sister to get back from her lunch break at the Vatican Quiznos. When I phone back Trey hours later, though, the person who picks up doesn't know what I'm talking about. She was like, yeah, my sister's going to be here later. That sounds like Italy to me. Yeah? Is that the way? Yeah. This is my Gimlet co-worker, Valentina. She was born in Florence and speaks Italian

and agrees to help me phone back a few weeks later. Have you ever called the Vatican before? No. It turns out that while there isn't an office at the Vatican for curse removal, there is a department for papal blessings. Maybe a strong enough blessing can wipe out a curse. Love KOing hate kind of thing. So Valentina and I phone up the office of blessings. Hello? I speak Italian.

Okay. Valentina explains the details of my problem, the cabbages and cankers, but the operator says we need a different department. It's an exorcism office. Oh. So getting a curse lifted, that falls under the Department of Exorcism. Of course. Bless you.

Blessings are the opposite of curses. So I call the switchboard back and ask for the Department of Exorcism. Why, the operator asks. And so, yet again, I explain the ulcerated mouths and talon toes. It's really absurd. Absurd? talentos. It's really absurd. Absurd? In 2021, we are still thinking about a curse dating back to 1526. Oh, God.

Oh, it's five centuries. Yes, and so it's about time. If Pope Francis hears about that, I don't know how he would react. How would he react? I don't think he would react in a good way. Are there special circumstances in which, you know, someone could speak to the Pope? It's not easy, but... But it's happened.

It may happen, but it's not so easy. What are the circumstances in which you passed someone through to the Pope? I don't know. Does he have a cell phone? Excuse me? Does the Pope have a cell phone? Do people that he travels with have a cell phone? Is it just a landline?

Sir, what do you want to... Sir, I don't know what you really want to do. When I tell the operator about the original reason for my call, that I want to be put through to the Department of Exorcisms, I learn there is no such department. Or there is, but it's a department of one. There's only one exorcist for the entire Vatican. And he has a portable number.

You want the number of the portable? The portable cellular device of the Pope's personal exorcist? Uh, yeah? Yes, please. 001? Okay. Thank you very much for your help. God bless.

Yes, God bless. Thank you. Wow, this is really great. This is really great. So should we try the... Let's try the Exorcist. Welcome to

Verizon Wireless. Your call cannot be completed as the call to party is temporarily unavailable. Is that a good sign? It's not a good sign. Once a week, for the next eight weeks, Valentina and I try calling him back. The call never goes through. Pronto. The call never goes through. When I phone the Vatican switchboard again, the operator directs me to the Secretary General of the Diocese of Rome,

who says I'll need to speak with a Padre Melilli. No, Melilli? But Padre Melilli's secretary says he's not the right person either. Apparently, since the curse affects not just the Eliots of Rome or Dublin, but all Eliots everywhere, my problem is an international problem. She says we need to call the Association of International Exorcists. Oh, come on. called the Association of International Exorcists.

Oh, come on. It's called AIE, A-I-E, Asociación Internacional de Exorcism. She just made that up. But it turns out that the International Association of Exorcists has over 800 members, publishes guides for exorcists around the world, and is accredited by the Vatican. The AIE and I email back and forth, but eventually the exorcists start giving me the brush off too.

It's been nearly a year of unreturned emails, wrong numbers, and all-around royal runarounds. I've been waking up at 4am to call the Vatican so often that at this point, I'm basically on Italian time, which is kind of like being on a vacation in Italy with none of the Italy but all of the sleep deprivation. It's while complaining to my wife one day about how sleepy I am all the time, how badly my neck and back hurt, that I'm forced to ask myself, did I have the Eliot curse? If I did, it wouldn't be so bad if I had anything to show for it.

As it is, though, I feel like I'm in a Dan Brown novel. But the boring parts, like the table of contents or the author's note that nobody reads. And to add insult to injury, I've been at this so long that a new Archbishop of Glasgow has finally been installed. So I phone Ronnie Convery and leave half a dozen messages over a number of weeks. When someone finally does pick up, rather than being granted an audience,

I'm granted this. Good afternoon, Archdiocese of Glasgow. Hi there, is Ronnie Convery there? Um, I believe he is. Can I ask who's calling? Sure, it's Jonathan Goldstein. Right, can you hold for a moment? Certainly. Hello? Yes. He must have stepped away from his desk. Do you think it would be okay to maybe try him a little later? Um, his schedule's quite unpredictable, that's the only thing. Right, right, right.

He's in and out quite a bit. Yeah. The only thing left to do is admit defeat. Except for the fact that unbeknownst to Ronnie Convery, the Archbishop, the Vatican, and even me, in the battle of Goldstein versus the curse, the curse was on the ropes. was on the ropes.

Sure, this might have been the heaviest weight yet, but that's the thing about heavy's weight. When you hoist them, there's no finer feeling. But the only thing I've succeeded in hoisting is myself, by my own petards. And so, without another choice, I phone Dylan to tell him I failed. Hello. Dylan? Yes, hello, how are you? More importantly, how are you? It's been 14 months since Dylan first reached out to me. Another cursed year has come and gone. The thought of how violently, excruciatingly,

baldy must be at this point is frankly too much to bear. But what Dylan says next, you'll have to hear to believe. How are things? Really good. I've had a really great second half of the year,

to be honest. Really? Yeah. Like, everything seems to be going a bit better, you know? Well, you sound different. I mean, your energy feels different. Yeah, it's totally different. I feel kind of much, much better.

I just kind of wonder, I mean, is there anything that's in the background, curse-wise? Because it's a really, really good second half of the year. I never dreamt of hearing the words, really good, let alone really, really good, come from the mouth of Dylan Elliott. What was going on? And on top of that, it's not just Dylan who's been feeling better. Everyone's in quite good shape at the moment. Like, I mean, my brother Tim, he's accepted onto a PhD course and he's got funding for it. It's going fantastic.

This is Tim, using the word fantastic. I'm suddenly working for myself and meeting lots of new, interesting people and having a really lovely time. Is there a moment where you feel like things started to turn? I think probably beginning of the school year, around September. So like in the fall? Yeah. This is a different, you know, a different Tim

from when I spoke to you last. Ah, yes, yes. No muggings in the past year? Zero. Zero muggings. That's a net positive. How are things for Rory? Oh, Rory's having a great time. He just sent me a picture. He's made friends with a donkey, I think it is.

It's very small. What does that mean? What does that mean? It's certainly a picture of him and his friend, who is a donkey, I guess. Okay. Where is Rory? I've moved to the west of Ireland, and I'm just really happy. This is Rory. I live in here with my partner.

The donkey? Injury-free. What about the mouth ulcers? Have they cleared up? I don't have any, any of them. Incredible. Not for months. And perhaps most importantly, and to my mind, most insanely. My ability to grow cabbages has really improved. Like, this season, my cabbages have been amazing. And as a victory lap, Rory made wine from cabbages. I mean, it tastes like really strongly alcoholic fermented cabbage juice that's very fizzy. When I just looked up cabbage wine, it seems as though, like, one makes it with 60% cabbages and 40% grapes.

I'm full of cabbage. You're going 100% cabbage? I'm full cabbage. I'm full cabbage. Dylan sounds like a new man. Tim's doing his PhD. Rory's dating a donkey. Even the Reaver Pub in Carlisle that closed down? Just this year, it reopened. What has changed?

Was it merely my trying to get the curse lifted that perhaps weakened it? Is lifting a curse like attempting to open a pickle jar when it's just so impossible that you give up and accept that you're never going to eat pickles ever again, but then someone comes along and pops it open no problem because of all your hard work? Had I loosened the pickle jar? because of all your hard work? Had I loosened the pickle jar? I returned to the Elliot Klan Society webpage to reread the curse for clues. Maybe while high-stepping around like a jackass,

I'd inadvertently crane-kicked some satanic goblin in the privates, knocking him into a key structural beam of the curse's complex architecture. But when I get to the curse's website, I'm shocked by what I find. Because what I find is nothing. In big block letters across the screen, it reads,

Error 404, page not found. The curse has been removed. Hello? Oh, hello. Is this Ms. Elliott? This is Margaret Elliott speaking, yes. And so, I phone Margaret Elliott, chief of the Elliott Clan Society slash webpage. Oh, hello. This is Jonathan Goldstein calling.

I don't know if you remember me, the American podcaster. Yes, yes, I remember. Hi, I'm sorry to bother you. Might you just have a couple minutes to speak? I just had a... Yeah, I'm not terribly keen on talking about this curse anymore. Yes, I've got... I'm not terribly keen on talking about this curse anymore. I long for the olden days when Margaret was terribly keen on talking about this curse.

How exciting! Well, I mean, I could probably get somebody on the phone. It'd be interesting. My middle name is Stuart. You've inspired me. Now all I have is a dumb old montage. I've made enough calls to people desperate

to get off the phone with me to know that I only have a few minutes before Margaret hangs up. So I launch right into my question. Why was the curse taken down from the Elliot Clan website? I asked for it to be taken down. Just out of pure curiosity, was it taken down because of me?

Yes, I think you probably triggered something and made me think of a more deeply about it than I wanted to. Anyway, so yes, it was your fault. Okay. It wasn't my ability to procure a papal blessing, archbishop's recantation, or priestly exorcism that in the end got rid of the curse.

It was simply my ability to be annoying. I annoyed that curse right out of existence. On the internet. It was all due to you. You mean you take responsibility. I mean, not to, you know, take all the credit, but yeah. Yeah, take all the credit. Why not? Since the Elliott Brothers' luck began improving in the fall,

I run my dawning theory about why by Margaret. I wonder, well, this might seem silly to you, but might it correspond to the fact that the curse was taken off the website? I wouldn't think so. No. But the intersection of the Elliott brothers' change in luck and the change in the webpage is just too tantalizing for me to let go of. So, I can't help but continue to toe dance on Margaret's last remaining nerve. Do you remember the day that it was removed? No, I don't.

Like roughly? I absolutely don't. No, I absolutely don't. I don't remember at all. Do not put the two together. Hmm. Dylan Elliott's luck started to change around the end of last year. I think the fall going into winter. I'm not going to be sucked into this. I just absolutely think it's entirely irrelevant. But that wasn't around generally?

Okay, well, I hope this is all done and dusted now. Yes, I think so. Good. Great. All right. Have a nice day. Okay, you too. As they say in America. Yes, and toodaloo, as they say. Toodaloo, exactly. We say that all the time.

After speaking with Margaret, I searched the internet archives and discover, in fact, that indeed the page of the curse was removed around the time of the Elliot's change in fortune. Okay, now I'm going to ask you to try to find that page about the Elliot curse. Together, Dylan and I turned to the page of the curse on the Elliot Klan website.

What do you see? That's right, you can't find it. It's been removed. Lifted, not from reality technically, but from the internet That's very 21st century Can we just at this point safely say that the curse has been lifted? I mean, yeah, actually, we definitely can, I think And when I ask Rory if he buys the whole internet exorcism idea

Scientist that he is, he carefully analyzes the empirical evidence. I mean, you know, it's definitely possible. You know, in fact, it's probable. In fact, I think it's definitely the case. Next time I'm in Carlisle, I'd like to buy you a pint at the Reaver Pub. Yeah. I'd like to offer you a glass of Brussels sprout champagne.

I've got plans with a girlfriend to go off to buy a camper van very shortly. Here's Dylan again. A camper van? Yeah. We're going to take it on the road and kind of go traveling. It's just feeling this immense feeling of freedom. It's been kind of incredible. Are the Elliott boys better off for anything I did?

Who knows. And frankly, at this point, they probably don't even care. When things are going well, we don't think too hard about the why of it. It's only when things are bad that we do. That's when we seek out therapists to analyze and exercisists to exercise. When things are going well, we just enjoy them, for as long as they last, which usually isn't very long at all. But for now, there's breathing space.

When is your girlfriend due over? Oh, like, imminently. Oh, okay. Enjoy the rest of your When is your girlfriend due over? Oh, like imminently. Oh, okay. Enjoy the rest of your day with your girlfriend. Thanks a million. Have a great day. Okay. Take it easy, Dylan.

Bye-bye now. Bye-bye. guitar solo guitar solo Now that the furniture's returning to its goodwill home Now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage deposit Take this moment to decide If we meant it, if we tried Or felt around for far too much

For things that accidentally touched This episode of Heavyweight was produced by supervising producer Stevie Lane and me, Jonathan Goldstein, along with Mohini Midgauker. Our senior producer is Kalila Holt. Special thanks to Emily Condon, Alex Bloomberg, Valentina Powers, Max Green, Damiano Marchetti, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, Michael Hurst, Sean Jacoby, Blue Dot Sessions, and he himself, Bobby Lord. Thank you. last episode of the season, but we're already looking for stories for next year. So if there's a moment from your past that you need help resolving, please send us an email at heavyweight

at gimletmedia.com. Have a happy and safe holiday season. Uh, should I ask Augie if he wants to come up here and wish everyone a happy holiday season? Augie, do you want to be in the credits? Okay, have a happy and safe holiday season, Hoggy. And we'll see you next year.