Hello Internet - H.I. #107: One Year of Weird

Episode Date: August 24, 2018

Brady and Grey discuss: a FOT5k story (or is it?), passing the Brady Turing Test, paper straws, liveable cities, the morality of snakes and ladders, pony painting parties, and Space Force. Sponsors: Try Dashlane here: www.dashlane.com/hellointernet (Plus, here's a promo code for 70% off -> hellointernet) Backblaze: unlimited, cloud backup for Macs and PCs for just $5/month - get a fully-featured 15 day free trial at backblaze.com/hellointernet Squarespace: head to squarespace.com/hellointernet for a free trial and when you’re ready to launch, use the offer code HELLO to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain Listeners like YOU on Patreon Show Notes: Discuss this episode on the reddit HELLO INTERNET PINS!! A recent Hello Internet Brady in a theater Grey in space Grey signing posters World's most liveable cities list Starbucks cups suck Pony painting parties cause controversy Space Force Space Force Logos

Begin Brady's story. So, you know, I'm back on the Fitatron bandwagon at the moment. Fitatron 5000. You know, I've heard through the grapevine, through the neighborhood, people commenting on that Adonis who's been wandering around. Yeah, I've heard. I've heard you're back on the bandwagon. I'm not going to lie.

I was secretly disappointed when we started our FaceTime call and you didn't see me and go, oh my God, you look amazing. I was a little bit disappointed. Oh, I'm sorry, Brady. It's all right. It just shows me I've got to work harder. Your haircut looks beautiful, like it always does. My haircut?

I was wearing a hat. Anyway, that's not the point of the story. Where has the inspiration come from, though? I could use a little bit of fitatron inspiration in my own life i don't know i can't explain it i just suddenly said i'm gonna do it you're gonna go for it yeah and i've got hard on the calorie counting which has slipped a bit in the last week or two but the calorie counting helped but i'm exercising every day you know personal training sessions for an hour and on the days I don't do that, I do five kilometer runs, which brings me to the point of my story. This is the point of my story.

So it was about a week or two ago now, I was doing my run and I've got this circuit I figured out that comes to five kilometers. Cause I figure Fitatron 5,000 and 5k is like the classic run distance, isn't it? So I always want to do 5,000 metres. So I went on this run all around the neighbourhood, and I was a bit tired this day, and maybe I wasn't lifting my feet up properly, but anyway. I got to the end of my run, and the very end of my run, I run out of a park where my house is to like the front of my house, and usually that hits exactly 5,000 metres.

I've tailored it. So I was coming to the end of my run, and I pulled that hits exactly 5 000 meters i've tailored it so i was coming to the end of my run and i pulled out my phone to check my distance on my app because it's you know monitoring my distance right and it says 4.95 kilometers and i'm like no i have to get to 5 000 partly for psychological reasons but also if i get to 5 000 meters the app puts me into the next bracket and then i can like break my record like you know that's your third fastest run in the five to six kilometer bracket or something right so i had to get to 5 000 meters so i decided i'm gonna i'm gonna have to do like a quick left hand turn here out into the street just to get those extra 50 to

100 meters and i'm looking down at my phone and I'm not paying attention, I'm not lifting my feet up properly and I'm turning left on this kind of slippery, leafy surface. And I had the most spectacular fall over, like proper big fall, like face first, bang down on my hands, bang down on my knees, cut my knees to ribbons and all the asphalt and leaves and dirt. It was like, oh, and my first thought is who has seen this? Right. Am I about to become a viral video sensation?

And I look up at like the houses and there's like no one looking at the window except Lulu who can always hear me coming. Lulu is literally sticking her head out of an open window upstairs looking at me. And I kid you not, I called out to her, I'm okay, Lulu. And do you know what? I'm so hard as nails. I got up and I said, I still need those 100 meters. So I ran the 100 meters before the soreness kicked in and I knew it was going to kick in. You've got a countdown timer for shock, right?

You've still got a little bit of a invincibility bubble around you. Exactly. So then I get inside and I get in the shower because obviously all the dirt and leaves and stuff has all gone into my knees with all the blood and all the cuts and everything. So I get in the shower to give them a really good wash. I'm in the shower, wash, wash, wash, wash, wash, getting all the dirt and mud out and stuff like that. And then I think to myself, do you know what's amazing? I fell over and I broke my fall with my hands and I was holding my phone screen out at the time as I broke my fall. And my phone, again, I thought, I'm invincible. This is amazing. And I got out of the shower and had another look at my phone a closer look cracked

the screen as we were coming to the end of the story i thought oh i can't believe this is all going to be a story again about how brady never breaks his phone i know i forgot about this as part of the recurring tales of brady it's like for the first time in my life i cracked a phone just it started down the bottom and just it was a little thin hairline crack all the way up the length of the phone almost imperceptible but it was there so my unblemished record of not breaking phones ended when i broke my entire body weight fall on my phone glass first on the asphalt there are some things the phone couldn't take. Oh, I'm glad that you kept up your running streak there, Brady. I'm sorry you broke your phone streak.

How do you feel about this? Well, all good things must come to an end. This too shall pass. Yeah. Although it was my first experience with kind of, you know, Genius Bar phone repairs. Not that impressed. Little bit disappointed by the experience. with kind of, you know, genius bar phone repairs, not that impressed. Okay. Little bit disappointed by the experience.

What were you hoping would happen and what did happen? What I was hoping would happen is that it would be done quickly. Right. Which it didn't happen. And kind of like on time, because they're so funny about giving you these slots, you know, you've got these exact slots, right? And I thought, this is good. I respect that because that means they know when they can start the work and they don't want you coming in early. So, I get this exact slot

and I arrived five minutes early and they basically sent me out of the store. They said, no, you're five minutes early. I don't even want to talk to you. So, I had to go and wander aimlessly for five minutes so I could come back in my slot. And I thought, okay, that's fair enough. If they're running that tight a ship, I've got to respect that. That is an interesting way to interpret it. Like, wow, this military precision, they don't even want me lingering around the store to slow the system down. And then I'm like, oh, okay, how long is this going to take? And it was like, three hours. What am I supposed to do for three hours when I've driven out to some shopping center to have this done? And I'm like, you're joking. And he like went out the back and came back and said, oh,

two and a half hours or something. And he gave me some time to come back. Right. So I came back not early this time. This time I came back at the time I was told. Oh, yeah, not ready yet. Probably another five, ten minutes. So I left, came back.

Oh, no, not ready yet. Do you want to sit over there? And I ended up getting out my laptop and working in the Apple store while they finished my phone. It was probably about 20 minutes later than it should have been, but, you know, a bit disappointed, especially after they, like, banished me for coming five minutes early. Yeah, the Genius Bar.

It used to be much better, but, yeah, it feels like in the past many years that window that they give you that's the time when they'll register that you're in the system and then you'll find out how long it's actually going to take uh like the delivery man who wouldn't give me my parcel until the time had arrived yep that's exactly it. We can't register that a Brady is here until the Brady window is open. Only then will you find out how long will you actually be in the store.

I used to be very quick about going to the Genius Bar for any kind of problems, and now it has to be like a completely disastrous problem with my device before I even want to think about making a Genius Bar appointment. I don't want to take an afternoon to try to resolve this kind of thing. Although I have found that for some problems,

what I will do is they'll send a box to your house. And if you can deal with being without your device for a little while, you can just ship it off to them and they'll ship it back. And I feel like that's more respectful of my time than waiting on Regent Street for four hours with nothing to do unexpectedly. That's a possible alternative, but a phone is not a you can be without it device. And all the witty observations I have about how hard it is to be without my phone,

I can't share with a tweet because I haven't got my phone. And like all the whinging I want to do about not having my phone, I can't do because I haven't got my phone. It's amazing how quickly you feel the separation anxiety. It does come up pretty fast. And a thing that I think is going to be quite interesting, but in I think maybe like three weeks or so, or maybe four weeks, the new version of iOS is coming out. And it has in it all of these like time tracking features and how often do you pick up your phone and how much do you use your phone like these things are just built into it and i am very

interested to see because i think a lot of people are going to be totally shocked to see what their phone use looks like or the like how many times have you picked up your phone in this hour numbers i think people are going to be super surprised by those like i don't know even just on the dog walks on the occasions when i forget to bring the phone it's like you're just very aware of it even if you're not going to be using it you're still just like oh i don't have this device that is with me all the time i'm not slow to complain about bad customer service. And funnily enough, last night, I had a problem with my Amazon Prime video. I couldn't get it to play because it had me registered. It thought I was in America or something. It was some weird problem,

weird setting problem. And it was saying, contact Amazon customer service. And I thought, oh, here we go. This is going to be fun. I made sure my Twitter was fired up as well, because I knew what was coming. You've already got the new tweet compose window open, right? All fresh and ready. Exactly. My finger was hovering on the trigger. Right. At prime support already loaded in the chamber. Exactly. I went to their like chat bot thing and explained my problem. And I felt like she wasn't understanding it. And I was being half polite, half a bit snarky. And then suddenly, within like seconds, she said, try it now. I've changed something.

And the problem was fixed. It was a miracle. Within a minute, my problem was fixed. And I was like, I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. You fixed my problem. Thank you. I went onto Twitter and I thought, no, I'm going to do the opposite here. I went onto Twitter and said, I'm normally a bit of a whinger. I just want to say, at Amazon, you fixed my problem fast. Thumbs up. Because I figure if I'm going to be a whinger, I should occasionally be positive as well. So I did that. And then I suddenly thought to myself, was that a human that I was speaking to? Yeah. From your story, I'm unclear. Were you talking to a person or were you

texting with a person or were you texting with a bot? It passed the Brady Turing test, right? There was enough interaction and personality that made me think, no, that was a human. But I suddenly went back into the app because I wanted to screenshot the conversation so I could analyze it in detail and it had vanished and I can no longer see the conversation. And I want to get that conversation back because I want to look at it and think, I think I was dealing with a human, but I don't know. And should I care? I don't know. It made, obviously it made me think of you. Right. Because I have successfully been passing the brady touring test for years

well some episodes you fail but most of them you've asked so have you ever come off a conversation like that like an online chat and not known i was gonna say no like this falls into the measurement problem and i realized that if i'm ever dealing with chat support, I don't really think about the other end. To me, it's like it's a machine that I want to get a solution out of. And if parts of the machine is biological and parts of it is digital, it doesn't really...

I guess what I'm realizing is that I don't conceptualize that there's a human being on the other end of any support system that I'm interacting with. You just treat all humans like robots. I do have to admit that even on support phone calls, that's not a gray at his best. Like when it's clearly a person that I'm talking to, that is my shortest fuse or my least amount of patience that i can possibly have with anything often to my detriment making the whole thing take longer i can be quite disagreeable with these people too and it's like not good yeah and i regret it when i do but i always try to be charming because i always think charm is going to help and i don't know if that's right or not i think what happens

is i always go in with the attitude that charm might help me get better service and get my problem fixed and at the moment i realize that's not true and this person does not have the ability to help me no matter how charming i am i turn the charm off yeah i agree my my how how long can i keep up this facade of friendliness it's a very thin piece of paper that I'm holding up in between me and the support human slash bot on the other end of the line. And then, yeah, it's the same thing of like, listen, support system,

here is my objective. Just do it. I don't want to take your survey. There's no way I'm going to change my mind about the thing that I want. Don't tell me about your other offerings. Like, here's my objective. Let's get to this as fast as possible. But I'm curious, I'm curious for you, Brady,

does it matter to you if you were talking to a person? Or like, do you feel better about complimenting the support that you got on Twitter? Do you feel better if you're complimenting a person? Or do you feel better if you're complimenting a bot? It would bother me. And not in like a outraged way, but just like I feel a bit like fooled if something is pretending to be a human because, you know, it had a name, it had a human name and it acted like a human. By the way, I'm pretty sure it was a human. So, I'm referring to it. I'm pretty sure this was a woman, but let's for a moment pretend it was a bot. I would feel deceived. I'm grown up enough and tech literate enough to be comfortable dealing with a bot, if that's what it is, as long as it solves my problems. Siri's not real. And I'm perfectly happy speaking to Siri,

but we all know that Siri's not a person, but this still has the facade of being a person. So I think they should be upfront about it if they do it. Yeah, Siri's not trying to trick you. Did you see, I think it was maybe about a month ago or so, Google's demo of their restaurant reservation system? Did you see this? No, I haven't. I know about it though.

This was one of those things where a lot of people on the internet seem to really freak out over it. The short version for anyone who didn't see it is that it's not a current product or anything. It was like a demo of something that they had developed at Google, where you could ask Google's Siri, which I think it's just called OK Google, like they need a name for it, Moogle or whatever. But like you could ask Moogle to reserve you a seat at a restaurant and then it would kick off to like some server somewhere in Google that would call the restaurant and use a human sounding voice to try to negotiate like oh you need a table for four people at Chez L'Avie at 8 p.m. or whatever, and then set up that reservation for you.

But the thing that really set people off about it is the voice synthesizer was very impressive. It sounded very human. And Google was also adding fake um and ah sounds or fake pauses. And that seemed to really anger a lot of people in this way that felt like Google is deceiving people who are working at a restaurant into the idea that they're, are they talking to a person or are they not talking to a person? I don't know. Like at the time I thought this was like a whole lot of much to do about nothing. Like I don't really understand what the big deal is about that, but maybe there is something to this idea that people, you don't like to feel that you

have been deceived by something that is not human. You just don't like being deceived. Like, people just don't like being deceived full stop. Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I'm trying to think about what is it about the humanness in particular? And maybe it's like, oh, why did I have to bother putting up this social front when it's actually just a machine on the other end? Like I was trying to be nice, then I feel like an idiot because I was actually talking to a bot. Amazingly, five minutes before you and I started this call, something happened to me that relates

to this. And you probably have limited to no experience with this because I know you don't answer your phone, but I do answer my phone. I'm sure you know it's a common industry thing that you get these cold calls from companies like law practices saying, we hear you've been in a car accident. Is this true? And you're like, oh yeah, I was.

Oh, well, we're going to help you take legal action. Wow, that's terrible. I didn't know about that. Well, it's like a scummy industry practice thing. Anyway, I don't know where they get the information about the car accidents. And sometimes it's duff information, or maybe they're just like having a guess. Right, they're just spamming. automating them and people would know it'd be this is a recording from johnson law solicitors if you've had a problem you know and people obviously start ignoring that so what they've done now is they've got this new system and i fell for it the first couple of times where you get a

phone call from a number and you answer it and you say hello and then there's a pause and then the voice at the other end says hello hello like they can't hear you right and that always makes you say yeah hello yeah i'm here and then the voice after a pause the voice says this is katie hey yeah sorry about that i hear you've had a car accident or they say something that will engage you to say something else and when in my case i was like no i haven't had a car accident where'd you hear that but apparently i think there must be some recognition system if you then say yes i have or if you say the right thing it like diverts you off to a real human right so they're dealing with those first 30 seconds with a machine and it's really clever it's really clever the way at the start they go hello like you were saying about

the ums and ahs that kind of human stumble forces you into thinking it's human and i got one just before we started this call my phone rang and it was a number i don't get many calls from random numbers so i said oh i know what this will be answered the phone sure enough there's this gap there's this weird pause i said nothing and then the person goes hello hello and then they put this perfect length pause for me to have said yeah yeah i'm here yeah it's brady but i just said nothing and then the voice says hi it's katie yeah and they and i was like piss off you tell that robot what's what brady i tell that robot i'll tell that robot who's boss that's really terrible it's icky i can't believe that we still live in a world where i can't have

a setting on my phone that says if a person isn't in my address book, they don't get to call me. It's mind blowing to me that that doesn't exist on my phone. Like why? Like the phone system in retrospect seems almost kind of crazy. Like people can just call these numbers and just interrupt people during their day. I don't understand why that's like, it's not possible to just block everyone who's not in my contact book. I didn't know that it wasn't. I'm surprised it's not. I thought, obviously it's not because if it could be done, you would have done it. Yeah, trust me. I don't get a lot of phone calls, but I would say 99% of the phone calls I get are from people that I don't know, right? Because it's like, why is my phone ringing? I never want the phone to ring. As you know, that's why my voicemail message is as friendly as it is.

This phone is not in operation. Don't use it. That kind of thing, it's just, it's really terrible. And they're also taking advantage of the thing we've mentioned before on the show, that if they just need to find the people who say yes, and especially over something like a phone, you can really trick people with changing the voice that they're speaking to without people noticing. Even if the fake robot voice doesn't sound very much like the operator who then takes over when the bot goes, hey, we got a live one, Sally, right? And passes it off to her. Like if it doesn't sound the same, people won't notice. Like your brain just is not expecting that kind of discontinuity. So it feels like you're being taken advantage of twice. You're being taken advantage of in the way it tricks you into feeling like it's human. And then this cognitive blind spot is also being taken advantage of that people are much less sensitive to changes when changes are not expected.

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internet and you listener go give it a try dashlane.com slash hello internet i do have one more piece of feedback from a couple shows ago brady which was your claim about the phrase recent meaning cool. Yeah. There wasn't a lot of people jumping on board with that. So I'm thinking, have I got a bum steer on this one? I don't know. I don't want to drag a Brady down or anything.

But, you know, sometimes you stumble into, sometimes I stumble into a topic where it feels like the feedback is overwhelming. And this was one of these cases where I feel like my dubiousness about recent meaning cool was well vindicated by the comments. Oh, hang on a second. Hang on a second. I agree there wasn't a lot of support for me, and maybe this is more niche than I realized. But it was on like Urban Dictionary before I even discussed it. And it definitely is used by my friend's kids, because I went and checked their Instagram and they do use it. So it definitely is a thing. It's obviously not Because I went and checked their Instagram and they do use it.

So it definitely is a thing. It's obviously not big in America, maybe. I don't know. It's big in Australia. That's what it is. I don't know. I don't know. But yeah, I did see the feedback and a lot of people saying, what are you talking about?

What are you talking about? Yeah. So I think I'm right to still be on team cool will last until the end of it. Like it's lasted 50 years. I think it's going to last another 50 years i don't think recent is going to come along and displace it and i don't i'm not saying recent was the new cool i didn't go that far wasn't that your claim brady i don't think so no no i think that's definitely that's the totem of your claim that i've built up in my mind is

that you were saying recent was coming along and stomping out all the cool in the world and we're all going to be saying recent soon. I think that was your exact claim. Let's just like not speak of it again. All right. Cause obviously I don't want to upset people and all the young people was like, people were going on the red saying I'm young and I don't know the term recent. I'm like, thanks a lot. I do kind of enjoy that because again, just like I don't, when interacting with tech support bots i don't conceptualize the person on the other end that was also a thing where i'm very aware when i read the comments i don't conceptualize the people on the other end of the comments it's just these are

reddit commenters who just exist in the ether and so when someone says like i'm 18 and i listen to hello internet it's always like oh like a person listens okay hello but the extra scary thing about that is it gives you a greater insight into how they conceptualize us yeah because it's like hey brady i just want you to know like as like a young person like you know i'm like in my 20s you should know and i'm like okay thanks for like taking grandpa joe out for a walk and telling him about the way the world is i appreciate that anyway well i think brady we're like podcast characters that the audience can conceptualize in their mind i think you know after four years of doing the show we have not but the barest biographical sketches

of our lives so we are just voices in the ether that the listener is able to conceptualize however they like do you know what my favorite little insight into the way people conceptualize us is and that is whenever someone like does a picture or more specifically like a video animation based on us like yeah for fun and you look at the comments underneath lots of people will often comment like no no this is all wrong i always imagine brady on the left or no no no gray is supposed to be on the left like there's obviously like a side a left and a right side that we belong in in people's minds a side of what i don't know because obviously i'm assuming the podcast

goes out in mono doesn't it so it's not like one of us is in the left ear and one's in the right ear so i don't know where people get this left and right hand side of us in their head, but I want to know, people answer this for me. Am I on the left or on the right of whatever there is to be on the left or the right of? I'm curious. My conceptualization of us is I do have a left right bias that I won't specify now because I don't want to you know for the audience but I do have a track location for us because I look at us Brady you are conceptualized as a waveform for me in the editor where I'm editing the podcast and it's always like oh Brady's track is on the top and my track is on the bottom because somehow in my mind bottom is closer and top is farther away. Like if the

editor were a piece of paper that was able to fall flat on the table, then your waveform would end up where you are sitting and my waveform would end up close to me. So that's my conception of where we are in physical space. It's funny when I had an unmade podcast, I put myself on the top because I think me, I'm the most important. I should be on the top. Can I tell you a funny thing, actually, speaking of the other podcast, this is something that just happened today. So it is in my mind. I did a recent episode of this other podcast with Tim, right? And it was like a jokey podcast. So we were pretending that we were in front of an audience, like at a theater. So we recorded it just in my house at the dining room table

opposite each other. And then when I edited it, I put all these sound effects and cheers and clapping. So it sounds like it's in a theater and there's a really excited crowd. And whenever I listen back to a podcast, like when I listened back to Hello Internet, I kind of remember where I was sitting and I imagine myself sitting here again. And I imagine you at the other end on your computer. When I listen back to this podcast with the theater thing now, and I remember recording it, I've completely forgotten that we're at a table. And when I listen to it, I imagine us in the theater. It's convinced me, like it tricks me.

And I made it. I recorded it and I added all in the theatre. It's convinced me, like it tricks me. And I made it. I recorded it and I added all the sound effects. And now, like when I listen to it and I'm picturing it in my head, I'm not picturing us two sitting at the dining room table with our microphones. I'm picturing like this theatre and I can see the colour of the seats and the curtains and the size of the crowd. It's amazing. I'm just a high concept performance podcaster, obviously.

I was going to say, I'm glad that your self-aggrandizement is a thing that seems to carry through in all aspects of your life. I recently recorded an episode of a podcast where we pretended to be on a space station, but in no way, shape or form, when I think back on that, do I think, oh yeah, that was the time I was in space. I'm not saying like, I'm so fooled that like, if the police interviewed me, I would say that I was in a theater. I'm just saying. Yeah, we'll just give that a year, right? A year from now, I'm not going to be thinking I was in space. What can I say? I'm in character. I'm in character, Gray. I'm a character actor. You're very dedicated to your craft reading.

So, Gray, in the last episode, we were talking a bit about dogs and humans. And this is quite a polarizing subject when dog people like us start talking about the importance of dogs. But there's one more topic that I want to bring up at the risk of people getting upset. And this is another social situation that I don't know how to deal with. Okay. Now, my dogs have quite human names, Lulu and Audrey. What is the right thing to do when I'm introduced to someone or I'm speaking to someone and they tell me about, I'll give you an actual practical example because this happened to

me a few times. I have a few friends whose child's name is Lulu and they're like, hello, hey Brady, come here, say hello. This is my daughter, Lulu. Don't do what you're thinking, Brady. You can't do that. Well, I'm surprised that you would take that position. So, I cannot say, that's amazing. My dog's name is lulu you can't do that you can't do that now uh i agree like i instinctively feel that but i thought maybe sensible gray would say why not you know we're all well oh you're saying that's a that's a name you give a dog not a human no no like dogs are people too. And they deserve equal consideration in our society.

And we must always work against dog oppression. But they are still dogs, right? Like, we're not crazy people here. I will not cross the line where, sorry, dog people. But dog people who refer to their dogs as fur babies is like, okay, now you've gone too far. Now this has crossed a line into crazy behavior. So there is still a distinction here. And there are many situations in life. I find very many situations in life where you don't have to offer up all the information that's in your head on a particular topic.

Right. And this actually feels like a subset of a general rule where if you're introduced to someone and anything at all about their name is even slightly unusual and it causes you to think of something immediately don't ever say the first thing that pops into your head like because guess what that person has heard it a bazillion times right whatever it is you're about to say just don't do that and so this almost seems like an example of that that if, their child is named the same as your dog, the first thing that's going to pop into your head is, oh, my dog's name is your child's name.

So as a general rule, don't say the very first thing that pops into your head. That's good advice with people's names. There are very few things I can think of that I would say about someone's name as my first thought that I should say. Very few. Yeah. And it never happens. And for people with unusual names, it's only like, oh, right. They just immediately put you in a box. I have some friends with particularly unusual names and it's like, they've heard a thing a thousand times in their entire life. And it's like, Jesus Christ, people like, I can't believe that everyone will say the same thing. Same thing.

Like if you have, if you meet someone who has the same name as a famous person, like, oh, just like this. Like, no, don't say that. Don't say that. That person's heard it a million times. I think the only time you could do it is if it was your name too, maybe. Like if I was introduced to Brady. Right.

Hello, this is my friend Brady. Right. What am I going to say? Am I going to say, ha, hi? Right. Like when you met the Lady Brady, it would have been weird not to comment on the fact that your name was also Brady, right? Oh yeah, but I sought out the Lady Brady.

Oh, okay. I was looking for her. Of course, of course. Again, now this is a case where i'm remembering a thing and of course in my version of it surely someone would be trying to avoid that person all night not seeking them out but no that's not the way brady operates no because i was told remember oh can i use that phone charger oh you have to ask brady right oh where is he it's a she right there's a lady called brady in the. I intend to meet this lady, Brady.

But so like in general, in many circumstances, in many cases, if there's a thing that immediately pops into your head, probably don't say it. It adds an extra complication because people are weird about their kids' names. Yes. Everybody wants to have the perfect kid name. Yeah. Advice for parents. When you are preparing to have your child, do not discuss your name choices with anybody ahead of time. It will bring you no joy like just keep it to yourself and then what will happen is you'll name your child and your friends might snicker

behind your back about the dumb name that you picked but nobody will ever say anything whereas if you say it ahead of time you may end up in the situation where people advise you against the name and then you know that they think it's dumb for the rest of time. That's just what's going to happen. Yeah. But no, so I think people are more keyed up to be like, oh, my child's name is not a dog's name. My child's name is this special gift that I have bestowed upon them.

That's why I don't recommend it. You should probably give Lulu and and audrey middle names that you can use as backup names if i'm with the dog at the time with the dog at the time that's what you want to do no i'm not going to do that i'm not going to do that because because what if i use the fake name and then something happens like audrey runs off and does something naughty and i have to stop her i'm like audrey i mean uh c, Cindy, I mean, oh, what's your name? I don't know. I'm not going to make up a fake name for my dog.

If I'm with the dog, then I'm sorry. I'm comparing your baby's name to my dog. Okay, well, or you could also go the option of having code names for the dogs that you interact with that you use so frequently that the dogs learn them as their own name as well. So that's also an option, Brady. I'll bear that in mind.

Just a quick thing. We have, for the first time in a long time, there is a new piece of merch on the merch store. Our beautiful nail and gear emblem is now available as a pin. People seem to be going nuts for pins. Pins are like so hot

right now. I don't know. I found it really interesting. I put out the pins and I got so many replies from people that were along the lines of, oh, I don't really have any interest in merch. Like, thank you for finally putting up something that I really want to get. And it's like, oh, I didn't realize pins were in, but pins are in. So now there's a Halloween internet pin.

I would not wear a pin. I don't wear pins, Okay. But I love pins. I just like the idea of them. Do you have a collection of pins? Do you know what? When the Sydney Olympics happened in the year 2000, there's a huge thing around pins to do with the Olympic Games. I don't know if you know about this, but the Olympic Games and pin collecting is like the perfect storm.

And every time an Olympic Games comes out, they put out all sorts of commemorative pins and all sorts of things. And there was a set of pins that came out, or there were a million sets of pins that come out, but one that caught my eye in 2000 was, I think for the 25 weeks before the Games, they put out one pin each week before the Games. And it was just like the number, you know, 25 weeks to go, 24 weeks to go with like a design and stuff like that and i didn't buy

them one by one as they came out but when it was finished and the olympics started they sold like a commemorative set in a frame that you could hang on the wall of these 25 pins and i was incapable of not buying it it just tickled every part of my brain and they could have put any price on it and i would have bought it wow and it was on my wall for a few years. Now it's in the storage locker somewhere with all my other signed memorabilia, but I love pins. Any price, huh? Okay. Well then I think the low, low price of $12 for the Hello Internet pin is a real bargain then. I'm afraid he was willing to pay any price. No, if you were smart, if you were trying to milk me for money, you'd make 50 nail and gear pins,

all identical, except with a different number in the middle. One, two, three. And I would have to have the set. I can't not have the set. That's why collector cards and stickers and things are also like heroin for me, because I have to have the complete set. Oh yeah, I've got nail and gear five, six, and seven, but I haven't got eight. I have to have eight. This is going to come as a real surprise to you, Brady, but the collector's mindset is not something I naturally think about. You know, I'll take that under advisement, but I did come across the idea of collecting pins the first time, which I thought was actually quite clever, is that Apple does it at their

conferences as an incentive to get people to go to all of their different sessions that they're putting on about like for the developers about what they need to know and so it's like oh if if you go to this presumably boring session you're going to get a really rare pin yeah i found it kind of fascinating that it was naturally creating a market where the sessions that people were least interested in going to ended up having the most valuable pins i was like oh what an interesting leveling mechanism you have come up with here based on people's collecting love it yeah so let's say then that this pin is the first hello internet pin first of many and there may be more so you gotta get your

collection started all right get the first one now link in the notes and stuff link in the show notes so i learned a new word the other day we all know about the humble brag right well i was at a show recently with sort of a comedian type guy and he highlighted a word which people probably already know but i didn't which is mosting which is a combination of moaning and boasting which is very subtly different to the humble brag it is very similar to a humble brag but i see differences because a humble brag involves expressing humility or denigrating yourself while in fact you're trying to brag. Whereas the most means you're actually complaining about something while getting your brag. So you can say, oh, my hand hurts from signing all those autographs or something like that. That's the example I had.

So I like the idea of mosting and I look forward to hearing more mosts. I love this. It's very similar to a humble brag i i do grant that i think i am very guilty of mosting at some point because i know that i did oh man ages ago now i signed a whole bunch of posters of uk explained posters back before i realized you know what maybe a man with repetitive strain injuries in his hand shouldn't be signing lots of things as part of his business so i guess those are now like pins they're rare collector's items for the people who have them but i'm willing to bet that i would have mosted

all over twitter about my hand being sore from signing a whole bunch of posters. But I really like that. I like this word, Brady. But here's the thing that I'm concerned about. Because as you know, we have already had such a hell of a time trying to explain to people what are and what are not the humble brags. People are like, look at this example of humble bragging. This is so far from humble bragging. I don't understand how you could even conceive of it.

And I agree with you. I love mosting. Mosting is a fun word. And it is subtly different. But it's like you and I are, we're in Jiro's sushi restaurant. And we're discussing very subtle flavor differences between super high-end sushi. And I think there is no way in the world this is going to be communicated well, or the feedback that we receive on this is going to be remotely coherent. Because the feedback on humblebrag alone has been terrible. So the

feedback on like, oh, here's an excellent most as compared to a humble brag is going to be a total disaster i'll tell you what my bigger concern is and in a beautiful delicious moment of metaness this is in fact a most okay because my concern is that in the same way that everyone in the world seems to think that you and i invented the term humble brag with and we didn't that everyone's going to think that we invented most and i can picture a time in like a year where everyone's going to think that we invented most. And I can picture a time in like a year where everyone's going to say, oh, look, Brady, I just saw someone using your most word on Twitter. I did not invent most or humblebrag. Hotstopper and freebooting are mine. Humblebrag, most, not mine. Freebooting is only kind of mine. Freebooting is a word before me.

Right. Yeah. Freebooting, you get to own that one as the new bullet point on the definition. Humble brag, no. Most, no. I'm going to put a word out there for people to look for if they're ever trying to identify a humble brag. Okay.

And I have no doubt that Gray possibly has been guilty of this before. I certainly am sure I will have in the past. But if you ever see the word weird used in a tweet or a post, it's almost guaranteed that that person is humble bragging. Oh, Paul McCartney just came up to me and said he loves my YouTube videos. My life is so weird. Okay, yeah. Like if someone says their life is weird, they're bragging.

They're not saying it's weird. They saying i'm incredible right okay those are like i've definitely done that i've 100 done that i'm sure i have too this is always a hard topic to talk about but it's like you get to know people who are becoming successful like and you see their rise and i've tried to be in like an advisory role sometimes. And I've specifically used the weird as a good example, which is like, hey, once you start achieving success on YouTube, you get exactly one year where you can use the word weird, right? Where you can say like,

oh my God, I'm backstage at VidCon right now. My life is so weird, right? You got one calendar year from when you start being successful. But after one calendar year, I agree with you completely. Weird is no longer weird. It's a kind of boasting. And it may still seem weird to you, but at a certain point, like the perspective of it changes. But if you've been incredibly successful for five years and this isn't actually weird, it's just your normal life. And it only seems weird compared to when you think of yourself 10 years ago. Like, I'm sorry, weird is off limits to you now. You cannot use this.

I think you just tag it onto something when you're bragging and you look and you think, oh, that makes me sound a bit boasty. Maybe if I said that I think it's weird, that will kind of just turn it down a bit. That's one of the reasons why I have a particularly bad reaction to the weird as well, is it's a false humbleness. It's like, I'm just such a normal guy and these things are so weird. It's like, well, it's not. It's not if it's been your life for a long time. Yeah. So there's something disingenuous about it. But yeah, one year of weird when your life starts becoming weird and then no more.

You never really think something bad's going to happen until it does. Like me with my indestructible mobile phone until one day it all goes wrong. The same thing could happen to your computer. Well, I mean, you're not going to be out running with your computer, but something bad could happen to it. And more importantly, the data on your computer. I know you can buy another computer, but your photos, your accounts, that little romance novel you've been secretly working on, they will be gone forever. Oh, and that hard drive you were using for backup in the house? Well, a shame. That was also lost in the fire or break-in or asteroid impact. Asteroid impact, that'd be exciting, wouldn't it? This is why you should do what all smart people do and install Backblaze. Backblaze will immediately

start silently securing all your data to the cloud where it sits as safe as a gold bar in the Bank of England bullion vault. Now, maybe you'll never need to retrieve it. The asteroid could be at your neighbor's house instead. But maybe your luck will run out. And when the time comes, it's fine. You can just download all your ones and zeros like nothing ever happened. Or you could even have an overnight FedEx to you on a hard drive. Backblaze does that as well. For a free 15-day trial of this unlimited cloud backup for your Mac or PC, go to backblaze.com

slash hello internet. And if the trial wins you over, then it's just a straight five bucks a month, no tricks, no catches. I've been using Backblaze for ages. And another of my favorite features is that you can remotely retrieve single files. So, you know, you can be out in the middle of nowhere, pull out your phone and you'll have full access to whatever's on your computer back at home. I have found that super handy. The address to go to again, backblaze.com slash hello internet. So they know you came from here on the podcast and then get back blaze up and running and then you can sleep easy fear not the asteroid that is currently heading for your house your data

if nothing else will be in safe hands thanks back blaze for supporting the podcast so great we've spoken in the past about lying delivery people who say they tried to knock on your door and they didn't. And this is clearly a problem. Fraudulent. Yes. I had another great example of it happen recently at our house because we had to have something delivered, but the same delivery person had to pick something up

that had been left for them. And that was like left, you know, next to the rubbish bin or something, you know. Oh, no. So, anyway, our thing doesn't get delivered, and we call up and say, oh, you haven't delivered our thing. And the person calls up the thing and says, yes, we have. It says here on the thing that the thing was delivered,

and the other item was picked up at 4.33, and it says it was definitely picked up and delivered. And the thing that was supposed to be picked up was still there. We still had the thing. We had the evidence that they hadn't picked And the thing that was supposed to be picked up was still there. We still had the thing. We had the evidence that they hadn't picked up the thing that they said they picked up. So, oh, you're saying it was definitely picked up? Yes, yes, the person reported it and they said they've done it. Well, what's this I'm holding in my hand? Sir, we're talking on a telephone. I can't see what you're holding in your hands.

Lying scoundrels. I know they're under pressure and I actually sympathize with it. But as I've said before, my office in my house is upstairs and I actually have to go down a few flights of stairs to get to the front door when people deliver things. When the doorbell rings, it is a race against time for me. And I have never got to the front door when the person isn't already at the gate leaving my premises and I'm calling out to their back, hey, I'm here. I just had to come. Like, give me some time. Just give me a little bit of time. Yeah. You're, what is it? Four flights up from the bottom?

No, I'm shouting. I'm shouting. I'm coming up. Sometimes what I do now is I open a window up the top and lean out the window and say hey i'm here i'm coming down don't leave yes listeners to the podcast if you ever listen very carefully if it seems like there's a a strange cut and then brady is a little bit out of breath when the sentence resumes that's because there was a package delivery in the middle of whatever we were talking about and what to you seems like but a second's pause was 15 minutes of brady going downstairs wrangling with the delivery man coming back upstairs and then catching his breath before he resumed with the show we always resume just a bit too soon don't we yeah we always do like you're always nice you're

always like take your time brady take your time, Brady. Take your time. It's okay. I'm all right. Let's do it. And the thing about resuming too soon is like we resume three breaths too soon, right? It's like we could just wait 15 seconds. No one would ever know. Like there would be no Brady out of breath moments. So, Gray, it is the music festival season in the UK at the moment, the nice summery weather. Yep. So, I've been going to a few, well, I've been to one and I'm going to another music festival soon, which I quite enjoy. There's no Glastonbury this year. They're giving a year off to the farm

so that the land can recuperate. Wait, Glastonbury, that's the one that you send me photos where you're in the mud or whatever. Is that that one? Yeah. But all that land is usually farms and they're all big on being all green and environmental. So out of their love for the land, they've said, we're going to give the farm two years to recuperate this year. Boy, I hope that's a really profitable farm compared to the festival. I don't understand how that works out economically. Well, I don't know. Anyway, no Glastonbury this year. Okay. I went to one called Wilderness in Oxfordshire,

which is a bit more laid back and a lot smaller. Had a really good time. I correctly figured there wouldn't be a high density of Tims at this festival. So I took some hot stoppers with me and I decided I would be a roaming hot drop. Right. I said, if anyone spots me and comes up and says, hello, I'll give you a hot stopper. Oh, no, you didn't do that. I did.

I did. It was fine. You don't want to encourage that kind of behavior, Brady. This was just for the festival. I know. I know. But I feel like you never want to encourage people to find you. Go find the object.

There's never a reward for finding one of the hosts of Hello Internet. There's only sadness, right? That's what they need to learn. Too late. I did it because I thought it was safe and it was safe. And in fact, there were only a couple of incidents, but both of them were mildly amusing. This festival is kind of not hippie, but showy and people like to dress up and one of the things people do at night is they like get lots of glitter and face paint and wear all these crazy outfits and stuff it's just part of what they do and because the people i was with like the wives and that had really went all out with their costumes i thought i should make an effort and there's all these little shops

and stalls and things like that that where you can buy clothes and outfits and i wanted to wear something a bit glittery you wanted to get pretty i wanted to get pretty you know i had glitter on my face one night and stuff but i wanted to have i needed something more showy and there were these like really flamboyant elaborate golden glittery sequiny shorts that you could get and i'm like oh they look nice i don't know what size i am so i got like a handful of these golden glittery shorts and i was like holding them in like a posy way waiting at the dressing room to try on my glittery shorts and that was the moment someone came up and said dr brady harron and i turn around like hands full of these super glittery crazy shorts at the dressing room i'm like oh hello i'm going to try these on.

I guess you want a hot stopper. So that person got that hot stopper. He was really nice, really nice guy. And the only other thing was it's quite like a posh festival, this one. And we happened to be in like the VIP area. And my friend is really, really into politics and like the conservative party. For some reason, he loves the conservative party.

And his hero among heroes is the former prime minister of the UK, David Cameron. He loves David Cameron, who happens to live in Oxfordshire. And David Cameron was at the festival in the VIP area. And my friend was beside himself. He couldn't believe it. He'd never been in the same place as him. And eventually with a bit of encouragement from my wife, in fact, help from my wife who went up

and just walked up to David Cameron and introduced him to my friend. He like got to have a selfie taken with him. And he was like, he couldn't believe it. Like the look on his face, it was over the moon. And we were joking about it like all day. And then anyway, the next day we were like watching this thing and this guy came up and like tapped me on the moon. And we were joking about it like all day. And then anyway, the next day we were like watching this thing. And this guy came up and like tapped me on the back.

And I turned around and he said, oh, are you Brady? I'm like, yeah, yeah. And he goes, oh, I really like your videos and podcast. And I'm like, oh, thank you very much. And then I said to him, I guess you want a hot stopper, don't you? And then I reached into my pocket and pulled out a hot stopper and gave it to him and he had this look on his face of like just happiness and joy and my wife said oh my god that's exactly the same face that our friend did when he met David Cameron he said I never thought I'd see someone that happy again and 24 hours later I saw the same thing and

it was a guy who was getting given a one cent piece of plastic stick from some dude that talks into a microphone in his office. See, Brady, we create happiness in the world. That's what we do with the hot stoppers. Hot stoppers create happiness. As often with Brady stories, when you're telling them to me, I have this feeling that all of these threads are being put down and I'm always like, how are these threads coming together? And it's like, where is this story going to end up? And somehow I wasn't sure if this was going to end up the story where the former prime minister wanted a hot stopper. I was like, is that where this one's going? I don't understand why he's just shown up in the middle of the story. I don't

understand where any of this is going. It all comes together. Let me pull more threads into this pointless tangle of threads. Because another thing that we all know about hot stoppers, and more specifically plastic straws, is that they're going to get banned in the UK because they're bad for the environment. And because this festival is a bit environmental and right on, they're leading the way. So they didn't have plastic straws.

So with all the cocktails I was getting, I had to drink them through paper straws. Paper straws are the worst things in the universe brady brady this was on my topic list for today oh paper straws they just crumble like like sand do you know what's even worse than drinking out of a paper straw the first time you drink out of a paper straw and you're not paying attention and you don't realize it's a paper straw. And, you know, if you're at dinner and someone serves you like the most delicious dessert that has ever been created by man. But if you're not paying attention and you still think you're eating the soup, it doesn't matter because your expectations are so different from what comes in your mouth.

Like it triggers this vomiting reflex. I got a coffee at Pret. I got like an iced coffee that came with a straw in it. And I put it in my mouth. I almost projectile vomited right in the entryway of the Pret because it was the counter expectation of like, what the hell did I just put in? Like, why is this melting against my lips?

Like, what is this horror that has pierced the sanctity of my body envelope that I was not expecting? It was horrifying. I mean, my reaction is probably not quite as strong as yours by the sounds of it, but I didn't have a single cocktail that lasted the length of the paper straw. And it got to a point when I went up for more cocktails, I was getting four paper straws per drink because I knew that's how many I would need because they just like fall apart.

And okay, let's put a fresh one in. The last day of the festival, they either ran out of paper straws or they got wise. And they started using these really thin little ones that were made of, I don't know what the substance was, whether it was bamboo or some kind of grass or something. And that actually felt quite nice in your mouth and it was quite good, but they tended to splinter a lot at the ends. And sometimes you would, you would get a dud and you would get no suction. So

I think straw technology has got a way to go before they phase out these plastic straws. I'm sure you could make a pretty nice bamboo straw, but it has a catastrophic failure mode, right? Which is like, we used to use bamboo to torture people with splinters. Oh God, there's so many things with this plastic ban. It's driving me mad because I made the mistake of like looking into this a little bit. And of course, it's one of these cases where a ban has come in because it sounds like a good idea to people right hey you don't like garbage plastic what a mean kind of garbage it is let's get rid of plastic and let's instead use nice things like paper and trying to look into some of the numbers it seems like the universal consensus is that if you actually care about garbage and pollution almost all of the things you're going to replace

the plastic with, at least in their current state, are way worse over their lifetime use than the actual thing that they're replacing. So it's like, oh, you're supposed to bring in these, I think it was a UK government report that I was reading, but it's like these cloth bags that you're supposed to use instead of the plastic bags in the shopping stores now it's like yes they're more friendly for the environment only if you use the cloth bag 20 000 times that is the literal number for what you have to use for it to be better off in like a total cost of ownership perspective than the plastic bag and it's like and i look at these paper straws and i think the same thing like paper doesn't just come from nowhere sure it sounds like it's better but is it really is it actually any better than plastic and like turns out we've gotten a lot better at making plastic that's more easy to recycle and like

at least in the first world they do a pretty good job of actually capturing most of the plastic for the recycling it's like it seems like this plastic ban is just a total frustrating disaster that sounds nice, but is actually worse. And, like, I know at least in my own supermarkets, like, I don't use those cloth bags because there's no way I'm carrying around a cloth bag for my groceries. Like, I'm some kind of peasant. I'm just supposed to always have, like, a sack with me for carrying my goods. Like, the hell with that. I'm not doing that. have like a sack with me for carrying my goods. Like the hell with that. I'm not doing that. So what does it mean?

Instead, I'm now buying every time I go to the supermarket, these industrial grade plastic bags that are the ones that they're allowed to sell that must last for a million years longer than the regular plastic bags would. But it's like, no, I'm going to buy these every time. Or like you're getting your paper straws, but you're grabbing four of the paper straws. Like there's no way this works out. I like those industrial plastic bags better.

They're like pro bags. Yeah, no, they are pro bags. I agree with you. They're great. I'm quite happy to pay 510p for them. I'm with you, right? Because I buy those things and I actually think it is, from my perspective,

a quality of life improvement. Because it's like, if you expect me to care about five pence for this bag, you are wrong. I am not going to care at all and I'm just going to buy them every single time. So it's like, this is not encouraging the action that you wish to encourage. There's no way this isn't worse. And at least when I look around at the supermarket, it's like, I don't see hardly anybody bringing in the bags that you're supposed to if you're a good citizen. Everybody's just buying the plastic bags. But I have a worse example of this, Brady. Now, I have some photos.

Now, before I tell you this story, I want you to understand, before you might get upset, that I did not go to the hospital. Last time something happened and I went to the hospital, you were upset that I didn't tell you that not go to the hospital. Last time something happened and I went to the hospital, you were upset that I didn't tell you that I went to the hospital and I didn't think it was relevant. That was years ago. I've moved on from that now. Okay, good. I don't expect to know anything about your life now. Okay, right. You've adapted. I definitely have, yep.

Okay, so it's a similar thing, but I have a little morning routine most of the time, which is I get up, I go to the Starbucks that knows me the least out of the several Starbucks that are my options within walking distance. And I get my coffee and then I walk to my office to get started on the day. And a couple of weeks ago, in between the transit of getting my coffee at Starbucks and making it to the office, the cup of coffee, a venti cup of piping hot filter coffee, totally fell apart in my hand on the street. Like it was as though Thanos had snapped his finger and the cup just disintegrated away and the coffee fell right down over my hand. Because it was not superheated, I didn't have to go anywhere, but it was still surprising

and unpleasant. And I also immediately looked around to see if anybody had seen it. Like what is the level of social damage that has occurred here is actually the thing that is concerning to me. Was Lulu looking out a window at you? Yeah. I'm okay. I'm okay. Don't worry. It's fine. I'm still going to make it to the office. but turns out starbucks is using like some dumb environmental cups that they are also charging for more it's like the paper straws all over again it's the paper straws but i have taken photographic evidence that i have just shared with you sue their ass sue their ass gray like

i'm not that guy you can see it it's just all the coffee's just started breaking through the same yeah but i honestly think these cups are dangerous and in my experiments it seems like they only fall apart when you have industrial filter coffee in there like if you have something lighter like a like a cappuccinoino, if it's not filling up the whole cup, it seems fine, but it doesn't hold up for serious acidic coffee. But just so you know, these pictures that I have shared with you, these are different cups from different days. Every day, if I get a cup of coffee, I know that by the time I get to the office, so every one of these is within 10 minutes of walking, the whole thing is going to fall apart and I have to transfer it to a different cup by the time I get to the office. And it's like, I don't know what you guys are doing i have found myself doing is basically when the barista is not looking i take another cup and i discreetly hold it out of their line of sight and so i double

cup the coffees now on my way in to the office because they can't just give me an additional cup because they're charging an extra five pence for these stupid cups for their stupid environmental charity or whatever it is. Greg, you've got to tweet this. You've got to tweet this. This is going to bring Starbucks to its knees. And you think I'm joking and I'm not. We'll get the Children's Burns Trust onto this and they're going down. They are going downtown. Yeah. It's like a hot stopper can't protect you if the cup just falls apart it's been absolutely appalling brady did this happen in london yeah this is in london i'm not surprised it happened in london because have you seen the annual most livable cities list is out i feel like there's adelaide propaganda building up is

that's the only reason you would bring up something like this. Oh, is Adelaide on the list? Let me check. Oh, you don't have any idea, do you, Brady? Let me call up the top 10 in the most livable cities in the world in the latest release. Oh, you're right. Here it is. Really?

What a surprise. I can't believe it. Number 10 on the list. Just made it into the top 10. The top 10 in order. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. These lists, they always have a couple.

Yeah. Is it going to be, is Zurich on the list? No. No, no Zurich? No Zurich. Is Vancouver on the list? Yes. Yes.

Number six. Number six is Vancouver. Number one is Vienna. Oh, I should have known. I should have known. Usually number one is Melbourne in Australia, I should have known. I should have known. Usually number one is Melbourne in Australia, but that's down to number two. Osaka, Calgary, Sydney, Vancouver, Toronto, Tokyo, maybe a bit surprising, Copenhagen, Adelaide, home of the mighty black stump. I'm so proud. I'm so so proud i don't live there i haven't lived there for

17 years i don't know why i'm proud but i mean you're proud because you're just an adelaide booster and you love to see the city doing well uh oh actually a bit of adelaide news by the way and black stump news and hot stopper news Espresso, the cafe at the bottom of the Mighty Black Stump that I stocked with Hot Stoppers has run out because so many Tims turned up asking for them and I have sent a new batch, which hopefully by the time you've heard this, he will have received them and they'll be back in stock. But that's not confirmed. That's not confirmed until I send out a tweet or something saying,

confirmed they've arrived. But they are on the way. So I think that's going to put Adelaide from number 10 up to about number 6 once they've got hot stoppers back in town. Yeah, it is a big quality of life improvement. I mean, you've seen how happy they make people. How could that not be a quality of life improvement for the city? Exactly, exactly.

That does remind me, I too need another top up of hot stoppers from you, Brady. Really? You've run out. I have run out. Partly through incompetence, because I brought a bunch to America and lost them at some point. Someone's going to find the ultimate cash somewhere. Like the ultimate hot drop. Grey's left 200 somewhere in some hotel room.

Yeah, I had a bag of like 50 that I did lose track of at some point. Spoiler alert. It's either on the East Coast or it's on the West Coast. I don't know where it is. It's like a broken arrow. Yeah. But I also, while I was traveling, I ended up just using them a disproportionate amount

when I was in airports or things like, oh, this little cafe place doesn't have hot stoppers. Oh, wait, I have a whole supply of hot stoppers with me during my travels. But I did, I've been meaning to mention to you for a while, I need a hot stop top up so that I can do some more hot drops at some point. I like that you've chosen the grandiose medium of the actual podcast to ask me for them rather than just like sending me a text or something. I'll forget. I'll forget by the time we're done recording. All right. Anyway, there we go. I see the top American city is Honolulu at number 23.

That's always the one. Is Honolulu livable? I've never been there. No, when I go to Hawaii, I don't go to Honolulu. I go to the big island I was there when I was a kid but uh yeah I do like the economist's ranking of livable cities and I used to always check it out every year and yes there was only ever one American city that ever made it and it was always Honolulu great can I do a paper cut I haven't done a paper cut for a while of course Brady I'm not the gatekeeperkeeper here. When you want to do paper cuts, you're always free to do a paper cut. My paper cut today is travel agents. Now, I know you're going to think it's stupid that people even still use travel agents in the days of the internet when you can organize your holidays yourself. No, not really.

No? Will you use a travel agent to organize a holiday in any way? I haven't done that, but I would imagine that the travel agent function is, I don't want to have to think about a thing, just arrange something for me. Yeah. When there are lots of moving parts, you know, I need to, then I need to transfer to this, and we need to book into that, and that needs to make sure it overlaps with that. And then, yeah, I think there is a role for them yeah i mean to be fair like i do a lot of travel and my assistant manages most of those logistics like i would not do a good job of trying to manage a bunch of those logistics but like for an actual vacation i could conceive of using a travel agent if it was like

it was a complicated holiday that i just don't want to have to think about here's my travel agent paper cut though because i i deal with them and they're usually really good, right? Almost all the ones I deal with are good or I don't deal with them. So I have no specific problem with any specific travel agent. My paper cut is the fact that travel agents, obviously because of their job, right? The travel agents get lots of free holidays to all these places that they're arranging for you. They seem to forever be going on free holidays to these amazing places. My paper cut is when you're booking your holiday that you're about to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on.

And they tell you, oh, yeah, I've been there three times. Oh, yeah, I've been to that one. And you're telling them or you're outlining to them your dream holiday that you want to go on and spend all your money on that is like going to burn your wallet. But you're willing to do it because it's going to be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And bloody happy as Larry at the other end of the phone travel agent is rubbing in your face that they've been there multiple times. They don't say it, but you know they went for free. And it just it makes your holiday feel completely unspecial you know oh this is going to be great i'm going to guide this holiday to this amazing place and i'm going to be able to brag to everyone about this amazing place i've been

and no one ever gets to go there and sandy on the other end of the phone went there twice in the last three months it's like oh well i don't want to go there then, do I? It's not special. I understand why it's important that travel agents go to these places, right? Right. Because, you know, it helps them give you better advice and know how things work. And I don't begrudge them the perk of their job. All jobs have perks. But I think they need to be smarter about when and how they disclose that they've been to places. I don't want my travel agent bragging about all the great holidays they've been on.

I want to brag about the holiday I'm going on. Keep your mouth shut. If I say, have you been there? Is it good? What do you recommend? Okay. But don't sit there telling me about all your wonderful holidays. This is costing me thousands of dollars.

Drives me crazy. Perhaps this is another example of don't say the first thing that pops into your head. Yes. You say, I want to go to wherever. And they say, the first thing that pops into their head is, I've been to wherever. Don't say the first thing that pops into your head. Yeah. Say, oh, that's amazing. That would be great, won't it? Oh, what a great choice. You have great taste in holidays. Let me help you arrange that holiday for you. Keep your insider knowledge to yourself. It doesn't impress me. It makes me angry. I also, again, like this because you, of course, are annoyed about their bragging because you want

to brag. And when you start complaining about this, I thought, again, where this is going to go is holiday spoilers. I'm perfectly fine knowing that the travel agent has been to the place. In fact, I would prefer that a travel agent had been to the place. But I would also not want the place described to me in great detail. That's sort of what I would think if I was using a travel agent, I would not want is like, I want a broad outline of where I'm going to go, but I don't want is a lot of detail. I don't want things that are, are vacation spoilers. That would be the thing. Like, I don't want to hear about it. But also, you know, in the next hour, they're going to be sending me an invoice for a large amount of money. Like it doesn't make that pill easier to

swallow when you just told me that you've been there for free. Anyway, as I said, I don't mind them being there and it's actually an advantage that they've been there, but just learn how to play it. Learn how to play it. Let Brady brag about his holidays. Gray, what do you think of when you hear the name chutes and ladders? Isn't that snakes and Ladders? Isn't that Snakes and Ladders? Thank you. Yes, Snakes and Ladders. Suddenly, everywhere I look, everyone's describing it as Chutes and Ladders.

And I grew up playing Snakes and Ladders, and now it's Chutes and Ladders. And I don't know whether or not I've just stumbled over some, you know, like all my life I'd been naive and this is what Americans call it or something. Or has Snakes somehow become like politically incorrect and you're not allowed to call it? Is everyone getting angry right now as we say snakes and ladders? Because it's like, but like four or five times in the space of like two or three weeks. And I know there's that phenomenon where you see something once you start seeing it. But like suddenly everywhere I look, I'm seeing people refer to chutes and ladders and I'm like, hang on, have I got this wrong?

So thank you. I love that we live in a world where the idea that snakes has become an unacceptable term and so the game has changed. Like it's not that far out there that it would have occurred. Like who knows what drama we missed and all of a sudden snakes and ladders has been rebranded chutes and ladders. Now, who knows what drama we missed and all of a sudden Snakes and

Ladders has been rebranded Chutes and Ladders. Now, after we've started recording, I've decided to research the topic on Wikipedia. Because now you're suddenly worried that we are stepping into something that we have no idea. Snakes and Ladders, ancient Indian board game. And then it says here in Wikipedia, a commercial version with different morality lessons, Shoots and Ladders, is published by Milton Bradley. Sorry, I didn't realize this. So Shoots and Ladders is the same thing, but with a morality lesson? I don't know if that sounds better or that sounds worse. It sounds more judgy.

What's the morality? Like, isn't it just pure charts? Like, there's no decision making in Snakes and Ladders. Yeah, I think maybe I played Snakes and Ladders once as a kid and immediately realized like, oh, this is a metaphor for life. There's no free will here. It just happens and the game ends. You're right. I don't think Milton Bradley are marketing it with that life lesson, but maybe you're right. I'm looking at the box on Amazon now and there's a bunch of happy kids. I don't think they've just been told they have no free will. You're right though. That is the lesson. Life is chance. Sometimes things will

go well. Sometimes things are going to go really badly all of a sudden. Right. And you're just a pawn at the vicissitudes of the dice. Welcome to life, kid. It's going to last about 60 years. Speaking of kids and fun times, I learned about a new phenomenon the other day, which is causing controversy here in the UK, like everything does. Oh, boy. And this is a phenomenon that I hadn't heard of. I don't think they had it when I was a kid, called pony painting parties, where you hire a pony and an animal handler comes. And they come with all these special environmentally friendly edible glitter and chalk paint and stuff that is you know safe and kids just get to like paint a pony and depending on

their skill level like i've seen some really amazing ones where they have painted a pony that looks like a zebra and they do all sorts of amazing things or you get really amateurish ones where kids just like scroll their name all over the pony's flanks and things like that this has caused some outrage there's a petition with 60 000 signatures saying that this should be banned it's not fair on the ponies there are other people saying chill out it's not that bad some people are even saying it's good because it teaches kids about dealing with animals and stuff do you have a position on the idea of painting a pony at a party? I mean... What's your position? I'm imagining before the show, this wasn't something you had a pre-prepared position on. There's a lot of P's in there.

The world that I feel like I'm more and more pulling back from is the like, hey, don't you want to get involved in this controversy world? No, no, I really don't. My instinct is that they shouldn't do it. But I also don't like that everyone's always against everything. So I'm pretty torn. I'm very like, you know, I love animals and stuff. But another part of me thinks, oh, you know, everything's always getting banned. On the one hand, I also feel very protective of animals. On the other hand, I really hate nags who tell people what not to do.

Have you ever painted a pony? I have not ever painted a pony. Mostly, I feel sad for pony parties. The pony painting part of the pony party is not my central concern. It's the pony part of the pony party. And that's where I feel like the sadness comes in like this poor pony is eeyoring it through some screaming children's day and that's the part that i don't like and the indignity of having artistically ungifted children scrawl their meaningless drawings on the pony like yes

that is an indignity added on top of the horror of the pony life if this is the thing that we're going to be getting upset about like i'm not sure the painting is really the hard part of this. I think it's the pony party part. So CGP has no position on the pony painting party parliamentary petition at this stage? At this stage, no. If there was a pure pony party parliamentary petition without the painting, I might support that. Yeah. I'm glad we've made that clear. This episode of Hello Internet is brought to you by Squarespace.

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Go to squarespace.com slash hellointernet for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch your site, use the offer code hellointernet to save 10% off your first purchase. Once again, that's squarespace.com slash hellointernet, offer code hellointernet. Thanks to Squarespace for their support of this show. like you know to go with the army and the navy and the air force this is not a joke i mean i like i didn't i didn't think you would put a joke story in the show notes like i mean you could just have an episode where you feed me fake news stories and i like i wouldn't have any idea i know i should have like one a week should just be in there shouldn't there but i don't like that idea let's nix that immediately i don't like it at all because brady i hate to inform you you are my main source of news i don't want to put that burden upon you, but spoiler alert.

Well, the notion of space forces have come and gone over the years and there have been, you know, usually these are responsibilities that are absorbed by the Air Force of a particular nation. Yeah, like Star Wars was. Like the Star Wars missile defense system was part of the Air Force. Yeah. But I think the current people in charge in america think it's time apparently i heard the vice president of the united states giving a speech the other day talking about how the next battleground is going

to be space which was a little bit disturbing but anyway i'm happy to talk to you about space force but that's not the main thing i want to talk well no i just like my initial reaction is that the name is sort of cutesy and silly but immediately as soon as we said the names of the branches, it's like, but there is the Air Force, right? As like Army is a word, Navy is a word, but there's no single word for the air. They should rename all of them. They should be the Air Force and the Space Force and the Land Force and the Water Force. Everyone will know what's going on then. I disagree. air force needs a new name that's just a thing like army right like army is just a sequence of sounds well why don't we call it the space navy that's cool

because it's ships i mean a whole lifetime of science fiction consumption has already gotten me way on board with the idea that space ships have naval names, right? It's like, oh, in a battle, there's a dreadnought that's coming this way. It's like, does that make any sense? No, it's a space thing. The jurisdiction of space, let's have the Navy take care of that. Surprise, guys, you're in charge now of space. But the name is less dumb than my first reaction.

It just sort of sounds silly to say space force but it's not any more silly than air force obviously uh i did not listen to the vice president's speech or anything but this is a thing that is an inevitability you know like at some point there's going to be need for nations to project military power in space. And like when I was doing the research for my Antarctica video a long time ago, I came across like all of the similar things about the treaties for space that are filled with all of these lovely words like, oh, yes, whatever it is, like space is the endowment of all mankind and blah blah blah it's like that's

all well and good until you can start cheaply and efficiently putting people up there and then it's like as soon as that happens well someone's going to need to project military power in space so it makes a space force seem like an inevitability but i'm sure, like, obviously there's something else you want to talk about with this, Brady, but I'm really curious, like, what do you think about military force in space as the NASA man? I mean, I can't disagree with the logic of what you're saying, but I think maybe we're jumping the gun a bit, like doing it now. I don't think we need it yet.

I think it's a bit of a political stunt. You think it's a publicity stunt? I do. I don't think this is like they've identified a need and they're dealing with it. I think they just think it sounds cool in the current climate. By the by, when you do project military might in space, when the time comes, clearly you are going to need logos on the side of your dreadnoughts. Yep. And they have released a collection of logos that they want people to vote on.

Oh, okay. So I would like you to look at the six logos that are being put out there for sort of feedback as they start thinking about what the logo for Space Force is going to be. Oh, okay. All right. I'm into this. I'm into this. I hope to God they didn't ask the internet to vote on whatever the logos are going to be,

but let's see. Well, there is, but I don't think they've promised they're going to use it oh okay i mean i don't think this is a joke by the way i've been checking and i've seen newspaper articles about it too so okay i'm looking at six logos here for space force yep i mean it's a good first try yeah but i don't think any of these are good right then why is it a good first try well i i guess i meant that in an encouraging way you know like when someone you're working with someone and they bring you the first thing and you can't say this is garbage throw it all away and try Instead, you try to be diplomatic and you say, well, this is a good first draft. How about we get another draft?

Do you want to quickly talk us through it? Left to right, top to bottom? Okay. Well, there's two that are sort of okay, but if it was a different thing. All right. So top left, we have, isn't that the NASA logo? It's like the red, but just red. So there's a red circle with like the NASA dash. Yeah yeah it sort of riffs off the nasa sort of meatball-y type yeah like now i have to look at the nasa logo i swear to god isn't that the thing yeah that is exactly the same googling the nasa logo they've just made the the background the circle red instead of blue like on the nasa logo i mean yeah it's like a it's the nasa kind of meatball but made red meatball why do you call it meatball that's like a, it's the NASA kind of meatball, but made red. Meatball? Why do you call it meatball?

That's like the nickname people give that logo. It's called the NASA meatball logo. That's a weird nickname for a blue circle. This red circle is way more of a meatball than the NASA logo is. I didn't make up the nickname. Sorry, Brady. I wasn't criticizing you for the nickname. Like, I know you're very involved in NASA.

I'm just dropping knowledge bombs. I'm not, I'm not taking credit for them. What I'm trying to marshal up here is like a first principles thought. So if you were projecting military force, I think you want a logo that's super clear. And it doesn't have to be scary, but just powerful-looking or simple-looking. Like the U.S. Army, I don't know if it's their official logo or whatever,

but the U.S. Army uses a square that has a gold outline and a gold and white star in the center. That's what I think of as the U.S. Army logo. It doesn't have U.S. Army like written across the star in a dumb way. Like it's just a star. It's just a logo that becomes the thing. I don't know what the Air Force or Navy logos look like. I don't know.

Like if I was designing a Navy logo, you know, I'd use an anchor like or something like that. None of these Space Force logos have that feel to them. And a logo that rips off the NASA logo feels like the worst possible thing because NASA is the opposite of projecting force. You know, NASA is, as you know, Brady, sending astronauts up into space so that they can dress like Spider-Man. I don't feel intimidated in any way by the NASA logo. And so a callback to space Spider-Man is not the feeling that I'd be going for with my Space Force logo. Gray, if sending Spider-Man into space

doesn't intimidate you, nothing will. What do you think about the second one? So top right. Okay, now we have a blue oval. It says Space Force with the a written a little big and there's a child's drawing of a rocket ship yeah next to it on the left don't put a round portal in your pictures of rockets if you want them to look grown up yes yes i'm looking at thinking like why does it look childish and it's the round portal out of which a little stick figure face would be looking.

That's the thing that makes it look childish. Yeah, I don't know. Not good and kind of childish. Yeah. I mean, like some of these are just hard to describe. The third one is similar. It's just more circly. And they've done pretend army font for the word Space Force.

Like it's been stenciled onto the blue background and they've put lots of swirling lines around it like a plot of a ship yeah orbiting a planet and it's got a bit more of a grown-up spaceship but it's just a it's very busy logo yeah it's a very busy logo okay so the next one is the only one that i think gets even remotely close to something that's good i've got the round portal on the rocket again, though. I know. Yeah. So step one, you got to get rid of the round portal on the rocket. You have to make that whole rocket ship less round because it looks like it's from Futurama.

There's the Futurama delivery spaceship on the top there. It's a bit fat and stubby, isn't it? It's not very aerodynamic. Yeah. But at the very least, what I can give them you know a for effort on is you have a shield emblem like the background is a shield it's not just a circle shape so a shield evokes militariness at least in some way and from the bottom of the shield going up there's like a red like the red exhaust of a rocket,

which then goes up to the Futurama delivery rocket. I think that's not bad, that bottom element of the red going up, sort of having a little bit of motion. But again, words, get rid of all the words. The rocket ship needs to look scarier or at least more forceful. The color needs to look scarier. It's too pastel-y. It's not aggressive enough in its colouring. Can you even attempt to describe this? Oh, is that supposed to be the moon? Is that what it is in the next one?

Oh, I didn't even recognise the moon. The next one's very hard to describe. It's very arty. It's got like a moon and like some kind of shape that I think is supposed to evoke the plume coming out the back of a ship. And there are stars that appear to be in the foreground of the moon. Oh, yeah. Wait a minute.

Yeah, that's why it's so weird. I don't know where this picture's been taken from, because the stars are in the foreground of the moon. So either they're very, very small stars, or it's a very, very big moon behind the stars. Anyway, we're probably splitting hairs here. But it's, I don't know, it's a bit of a mess. At least stars. Anyway, we're probably splitting hairs here, but it's, I don't know, it's a bit of a mess. At least it's got, I don't know.

No, there's no at least. It's rubbish. It's no good. Now, the final one here on the bottom right in the image that you have sent me. This feels like it is out of the wrong contest because I would describe this as, this is an excellent entry for a propaganda poster for SpaceX.

It's an arty image of a rocket ship taking off from like an abstract forest into the sky. And it has Mars awaits on the top. It should be like a badge that you're wearing on your shirt at a like a elon musk pep rally yeah it feels like a poster i would expect to see in spacex and i would feel like oh that's a great poster for again we want to colonize mars and like here's just a like i said like a kind of propaganda poster like and propaganda in a good way so it's like this one is like i'm sorry you fell out of the wrong project into this project. You're supposed to be somewhere else, space logo. So yeah, none of these are good. I'm trying to think of like, okay, so the army uses the star.

I'm just going to pretend that the Navy uses an anchor. I'm not actually looking it up. I don't think they do, but yeah. No, they definitely do, Brady. For 100% sure, I haven't looked. No, you're right, they do. It's they definitely do brady for 100 sure i haven't looked no they're right they do it's like a it's an eagle holding an anchor you're right oh yes okay that gives me points although it does take away from what i was about to say which is surely the air force the united states air force there's a zero percent chance it's not an eagle that whatever

they use for their logo don't look it up brady it doesn't matter it's actually a reunion swamp pen oh wow hello internet deep cut there it's like a sort of a stylized eagle slash ribbon like their formal one has an eagle but they're like modern corporate one is sort of evocative of an eagle but it's okay but so if those are the things now looking at our potential logos, I think we have ruled out the possibility of using a spaceship as your logo, because I just don't think there's any way it's going to look good. You can't use stars because the US Army already has a star. And also you're not really getting near stars, do you? I don't imagine it's going to be a long time before Space Force is actually going to other stars.

That's an excellent point. Although, you know, never too soon to start an empire if we learned anything from Guns, Germs and Steel. Because you want to be first. What's your token then? First nation launching your ships but yeah so i'm trying to think like what is the thing that is identifiable that you could use as a logo for your space army because the other problem you have is everything in space is a circle which is super unrecognizable there's no animals in space it's a rocket it's a rocket with fire

coming out the back that's what they all use. That's the only thing that says spaced, whether you're an adult or a kid or where you're from. It's a rocket with lots and lots of fire coming out the bottom, pointing straight up. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. I guess you really are stuck with that. I think there's nothing else. We don't have any space animals that we can use that would be cool. Space animals, no.

The other thing that is very commonly used and is used on a lot of these logos is the idea of like the swirl that represents like an orbit or a ring around a planet and things like that. That seems to be in most of them, that kind of stylized three-quarters ellipse seems to say space, doesn't it? It's in one, two, and and four and it's also kind of in three yeah i'm thinking maybe you could just get real abstracts and just the space force logo like on on uniforms and things could just be a black patch to symbolize the nothingness of outer

space yeah a vacuum yeah like Because I'm trying to think, like, what do you have in space? You've got round objects and you have nothing. That's what space is. Like, well, you can't use the round objects. Could you use the sun, maybe? I don't know. Yeah, maybe the sun. Because that's like the center of our solar system. So it's like, you know, that's like home in a space context. I've just decided Space space force whatever the logo ends up being it needs more black black is also a good military color and black is what space is so more more black none of this blue also that's what the space soldiers will wear to like camouflage into the background like yeah black army fatigues will be black with lots of white dots all over it so they can just

float there in space and you don't even know they're there yeah i agree yeah 100 where's that astronaut oh he's at this i can't even see him oh i know i would okay i would use i'm thinking okay i'm trying to we're just brainstorming here yeah here's my brainstorm this is genius brady yep black all right and a like a constellation that is in the shape of a sword. That's what I would do for Space Force. So little stars that are like a constellation for a sword. That is my Space Force logo. United States government, I will license it to you for a mere 1%. That idea is all yours at a 1% royalty fee.

Could you use an actual constellation, like the Hunter or something, like Orion or like an iconic constellation? I was thinking about the constellations. My original thought was Big Dipper before. I thought it's just dumb and it doesn't seem like military force. And yeah, the Hunter or any of those constellations, I mean, come on, let's be honest. Those constellation drawings,

they're garbage and they look like nothing. They're made up by sheep herders who had a thousand years of boredom to try to see anything in the stars at night. Like constellations don't look like whatever they're supposed to look like. They go, oh, look over there. That constellation's a crab.

It's like, if it's a crab, it's the worst crab I've ever seen. So I don't think you can use a famous one. I want a constellation that looks like the outline of a sword. That's what I would do. All right. You don't agree? You disagree, Brady?

No, I disagree, yeah. Okay, give me your alternative. Give me your alternative. I haven't got one. I have to think about it. Maybe next episode if I've had a better idea. I haven't got one yet. Oh, by next episode, episode i'm gonna be swimming in my space force royalties that's my plan