Hello Internet - H.I. #111: Disgusting Wheel of Filth

Episode Date: October 15, 2018

Grey and Brady discuss: heatwaves revisited, progress in project Cyclops, The Apple Watch as Black Mirror horror, Brady goes to Peru, being from America, leap year criminals, doggy bags, The Buzz, and C-words. Sponsors: FreshBooks: Online invoicing made easy - get a free unrestricted 30-day trial at FreshBooks.com/hello and enter "Hello" in the how did you hear about us section Fracture: photos printed in vivid color directly on glass - get a special discount off your first order at fractureme.com/hi and don't forget to pick Hello Internet in their one question survey Casper: get your best rest, one night at a time - get $50 toward select mattresses by visiting Casper.com/HI and using promo code "HI" at checkout Listeners like YOU on Patreon Show Notes: Discuss this episode on the reddit It's hot in the summer: 2003 edition 2005 edition 2006 edition 2007 edition 2008 mini edition 2009 edition 2010 edition 2011 edition 2012 edition 2013 edition 2014 edition 2015 edition 2016 edition 2017 edition 2018 edition H.I. #109: Twitter War Room on YouTube CGPGrey2: Thinking About Attention Self Control Cusco Machu Picchu Brady's first coffee Juvenile or adult? Leap-year suspect poses conundrum for ACT court Bees in South African plane's engine delay flights

I clicked on the very first thing that was on the front of Wikipedia, which is the Malagasy mountain mouse. I'm on the exact same article. The Malagasy mountain mouse. It's no reunion swamp hen, but it's not bad. I'm now super disappointed that there's no photo of the Malagasy mountain mouse. If it's related to the Jamaican rice rat in any way, that would be too much. It is from Madagascar.

Yeah. Listen, some Tim out there needs to get a photo of this mouse and release it to the public domain and put it up on the Wikipedia. I think this needs to happen. All right. So we're both looking at the same page.

I'm now Googling pictures of that mouse while you continue talking. No, Brady, don't go down the thread. You're getting lost. A couple of shows ago, Brady, you may remember I was complaining about the heat in the UK. Yeah, it was the heat wave.

Yes, it was the heat wave. Now, the way the timing of recording and releasing our show was, it went up the day a few newspaper articles went out saying, it's the biggest heat wave ever in the UK. Yeah. It even has its own Wikipedia page now. It was such a big heat wave. There you go.

I told you. I told you. Well, you told me and everyone in the world told me. Yeah. I got a huge amount of comments and tweets and things from people at that point. Great. It was a tweet wave. God damn it, Pris.

You just served me up these softballs. I think when we're recording the show, you're there ready to pounce at a moment's notice at some terrible pun because you know that they cause me physical pain. You're there like a stealthy leopard just waiting, watching, and at any moment you're going to leap and tell me something like a tweet. Tell me that's not good though, a tweet wave. That's pretty good. Okay, look, I really hate to admit this,

but that is definitely one of your better ones. Like that's a good thing. And that's exactly what it felt like. You get hit by a tweet wave of like, oh God, all these people are telling me this thing. And I don't understand. Everybody wanted to tell me, oh, it really was a heat wave. LOL, you're dumb for thinking that it's always this way.

Like, no, this really was a heat wave. This time it's different. Like, I don't understand how, if it really was a heat wave, that's an argument against putting air conditioning in the house. But like, whatever. So let's go back in time because I did a little Googling before today's show. Yeah. We're going to go back, back to 2003 when a much younger, perhaps more idealistic gray immigrated to these fair shores.

2003. If we go into the time machine, oh, look, here's an article about the 2003 European heat wave. Yeah. The summer that I arrived. It was super hot. Yeah. Freakish occurrence, I'm sure.

Now, we're going to click forward to 2004. Nothing happens in 2004. No. Just a regular summer. Yeah. No problem whatsoever. But then 2005, article from the BBC, UK has experienced the hottest summer on record. 2006, we go forward. There's a Wikipedia article about the European heat wave in 2006. 2007, there's a Wikipedia article about the European heat wave. 2008. Now this year, according to the Telegraph, it was merely a mini heat wave that struck the UK, talking about temperatures higher than it had ever been before. Right now, we fast forward. 2009, Britain declares

heat wave as temperatures rise, talking about how the Metropolitan Office has raised their amber alert for heatwaves in 2009. You're not quoting the Daily Express, I hope, because that's a paper famous for hyperbole around weather. No, I'm looking at The Guardian now. Okay, that's all right. Well, it says here in this BBC article that 2018's summer is tied for the hottest since records began with 1976, 2003, one of the years you named, and 2006, another one of

the ones you named. So we have had a little cluster. Yeah, I agree. But we're like, we're not done yet, Brady, because now we're at 2010. UK heatwave causes hundreds of deaths. If you're going to Google every time a journalist has used the word heatwave during a hot spell, you're going to win this debate. They all list the temperatures as being like in the 90s, right? It's the same thing. 2012. You know what I thought you were going to do? I thought you were going to do something quite legitimate here and you were going to call up some Met Office weather data and make your

case. But if you're just Googling and cherry picking news articles, what can I do? Am I looking at the news? Like I shouldn't rely on the news to describe when heat waves occur. And in all fairness, I genuinely did try to pull up like, what are the actual metropolitan office, right? Like I was trying to get like the median temperatures for the summer. That's not hard to get. Okay. I found it very difficult to find like what I'm looking for, which is I wanted like a 30 year period of like the median temperature in August, like that kind of thing. So instead you just lazily went and cherry picked if you just Googled the word heat wave.

I was looking at the news. I thought I could use the news as a primary source, but I guess I'm wrong. I shouldn't have done that. But okay, if we just go to Wikipedia. Well, hang on a second. Yeah, exactly. You're the one who's Mr. Anti-News, and now you're using it to make your argument. Is this another bash to the news day? Are we arguing about the weather? Make up your mind what argument you want to have. You can't use as a crutch the news that you hate so much to bolster your other argument about the weather. My argument is that it's hot in the summer and English people always write it off as

a heat wave. And so I think the news is a perfectly appropriate source to see, like, do people discuss the summer as heat waves? And for 14 out of the last 15 years, I have news articles about like, it's a heat wave. There's an Amber Alert from the Mets. Here's a Wikipedia articles about like, it's a heat wave. There's an Amber Alert from the Mets. Here's a Wikipedia article about like the European wide heat wave. Like it's a ridiculous number of like heat wave stories, which I think totally validates my point that English people just like deny the fact that it's hot in the summer and talk about it as though it's a heat

wave. Like that it's a freakish occurrence that heat waves never happen. What happened was people were talking about the unseasonally hot weather. You said this is a beat up. It's not that hot. No, no, no. I was complaining that it's hot. What are you saying? I wasn't saying it's not that hot.

The whole point was- No, what you were saying, you were saying it was normal. You were saying it was normal. Yeah. That it's hot every summer. People pointed out to you that the data showed that 2018 was the equal hottest summer since records began in 1910 and 2003 yeah which bolsters the claim and then you're like you're not accepting that you're like oh no no it wasn't unusually hot it was just a normal summer and people saying no this was not a normal summer

is what the met office was saying i have no no idea. I haven't lived in England that long, but the Met Office is saying 2018 was an unusually hot summer. I don't know. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe their thermometers aren't working. No, no, no. Both of these things can be true. It can be unusually hot and also hot every summer and also always described as a heat wave. I, I just, I don't understand why I received this tweet wave of feedback where people were trying to tell me like, it's not hot. Like, oh, this is a freakish occurrence. It's not hot during the summer. And it's hot every summer. Like it's not hot enough to require air conditioning every summer for the last 15 years, which is totally the case. And like, maybe upon these emerald islands back 20 years ago, like we didn't have summers like this, but spoiler, like it's hot. It seems like the

temperature is going up. And I don't think the temperature is going to be going down anytime soon. Like things are different. CGP grade doth protest too much, me thinks. What do you think I'm protesting too much? I'm trying to tell people it's hot during the summer and you can't say like it's a heat wave every single year. That's what the summer is. All right. Were you not sweltering in your office, Brady? Yeah, I was because it was a heat wave. Oh, God damn it.

Look, English people always exaggerate about the weather and love talking about the weather. We discussed this last time. I think, unfortunately for you, at the time that you were making this point in a colourful way... It was the week before it was the hottest week ever, yeah. Unfortunately for you, some data was released that let people do a little bit of a wrong on the internet moment. But I hear you. Yes, yes british newspapers to sell more papers love exaggerating about the weather but this was 2018 was hot i actually went over i went to an island in the bristol channel right in the middle of the heat wave and it's an island where lots of birds breed and the island was covered like a carpet with dead birds because the birds couldn't handle all the heat and the lack of water.

And the people who run the island said this is really unusual and it's because of the weather and stuff. So I feel like I was seeing not just I was hot in my office, but I was seeing carnage, nature carnage being caused by this unseasonal weather. So I think it's legit that 2018 was a bit unusual, but you know. I'm not saying it wasn't unusual, Brady. You know, I'm not saying it wasn't unusual. Well, what's your point then? Summer happens. I don't think anyone thinks summer- You're about to say you don't think anybody disagrees with like summer happens, but I'm telling you the English people disagree with summer happens. Like that, that I feel like is my fundamental point here. The English people disagree with summer happens. Like that I feel like is my fundamental point here.

English people disagree with summer happens. You remember last episode we discussed the idea of a YouTube without view counts? Yes. An idea that I hope grips the internet, but I'm sure will go absolutely nowhere because YouTube will never do it. But when we put up the YouTube version of that episode, I was thinking, oh, you know what? Because I had discussed, I was also working on this video, which like I may or may not put up, and I wasn't sure. And I was thinking, oh, this might be an interesting time to put something up without view numbers or reactions, because that's kind of the point. I thought, let me test this with the Hello Internet YouTube channel where we discuss this idea. I thought, you know what?

Let's put up that video and not have comments or view numbers or thumbs up and thumbs down. Can you turn off view numbers yourself? Well, so I'm digging around in the settings. Comments, easy peasy. You can turn it off. Thumbs up, thumbs down. Also, very simple. You can turn it off.

But I'm looking in the settings and there seems to be no way to turn off the view numbers. No. Now, maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm misremembering. I thought back in the long, long ago, you could turn off the view numbers. I may be mistaken about that. Maybe that was never the case.

But I had always had it in my mind that this was an option if you wanted to, that you could upload a video without view numbers. But it turns out, you cannot upload a video without view numbers. But it turns out you cannot upload a video without view numbers. YouTube requires you to have the view numbers there. So I found this sort of interesting, maybe not surprising, but I would also say I was a little bit disappointed because I was thinking, oh, even as like a art project or as the point

of the video itself, it is not possible to upload a video to YouTube without the whole world seeing what those view numbers are. Or if there is a way to do it, I was not able to figure it out. I didn't think it was ever possible. I think you can conceal certain amounts of the analytics and data from the public, but not the view count. I always forget this exists, but there's like a little stats box that you can click on underneath the YouTube videos, which has all of this additional information. I never remembered that it even exists there, but that was one of the things, maybe that's what I had confused in my mind of like, thought that that must mean that the view numbers go away as well but you can disable that little thing that i think nobody really knows even exists in the first place

so i'm disappointed i'm still gonna hope that you know maybe one day youtube thinks a youtube without view numbers is a good idea i'm not holding out out for that. And when I realized that, I did kind of totally chicken out on putting up a video on my main channel. And instead, I was like, I'm going to put this up on the second channel. Because I thought like, like we were discussing last time, I really didn't want to have like a random video that goes up that looks really terrible with view numbers. So yeah, decided to shove it along to channel number two. It's not possible to have a video without view numbers on YouTube. Was that pride and vanity or a fear of algorithmic penalty to your main channel?

I'd say it's a combination of both. Also, in no small part, as we were discussing last last time you can end up having like these weird news stories around youtubers and i was thinking like i also didn't want to put up a video on the main channel that maybe makes it look like i'm kind of going crazy and losing my mind a little bit after a long time of not uploading a video that too was like lurking around in the background and i was like you know what i don't need to become like a news story as like YouTubers lose mind as YouTube destroys them all. So I'll put this also on the second channel for that reason.

Why did you think putting it on the second channel would make you immune from that though? Just because it gets less attention. The second channel subscribers, they are probably more likely the more intense subscribers. I think they're also much more likely to listen to the podcast so they have some idea of like why i'm doing this and so i just think it has much less of a chance of like spreading out into into the wider world like nothing secret on the internet

but i just thought like let me do it this way but i think in an alternate universe had i been able to conceal the view and thumbs up and thumbs down and comment numbers, I probably would have put it up on the main channel as like, like an interesting aberration. And that was not to be. That video on the second channel, did you switch off the comments and the thumbs? I think I did. Actually, I don't remember now. Obviously something that weighed heavily on your mind. Look, once plan A was destroyed, plan B was like, ah, whatever. Hello, internet listeners. You've heard me talk about FreshBooks before,

the sponsor that helps you save time and get your invoices paid quickly. They've recently hit a pretty tremendous milestone. Over 10 million users have chosen FreshBooks as their go-to cloud accounting software. 10 million is a lot of people. That's not something you can really conceive of in your head. But once you give FreshBooks a try, you'll understand why millions of people have made the choice to use FreshBooks. FreshBooks is just ridiculously easy to use. You can send invoices in 30 seconds, set yourself up to receive payments online in two clicks, and take pictures of your receipts to manage expenses. By FreshBooks calculation, this could save you up to 16 hours a month. What would you want to do with 16 extra hours a month? If you'd freed up that kind of time,

maybe you could read some of those books you've always been meaning to get to. FreshBooks can help make that happen for you. So what are you waiting for? To try FreshBooks for an unrestricted 30-day free trial, go to freshbooks.com slash hello and enter hello in the how did you hear about us section. That's freshbooks.com slash hello and enter hello in the how did you hear about us section. This will get you started on getting those invoices of yours paid faster than getting hours of your life back. Project Cyclops, your time in the wilderness. How's that all going? I don't know. It's been, as we're recording, pretty much exactly a month since I started.

And it's been kind of like easier and harder than I would have thought. But for the most part, I think I was right in deciding that I want to do this for a much longer period of time than I have in the past. So like if this was an experiment from years ago, it would be wrapping up right about now. And my current feeling is like, oh, I feel like I've barely begun.

So I'm glad that I set for myself a much longer time horizon to do this. What are you finding easy and what are you finding hard? So dropping podcasts has been super easy, which I was kind of not expecting. Simply just not listening to podcasts is by far and away the easiest thing, which is also the biggest win. I was thinking like, oh, suddenly my whole life is going to fill up with nothing but audiobooks from now on. I'm just going to have one activity replace the other. And weirdly, my audiobook listening has also plummeted.

Like I haven't substituted one behavior for the other. So that has been much easier than I was thinking. The harder end is definitely like the Reddit hacker news side of it, which is the habitual side. And that is really the case where I just recognize how dumb your brain is and how your brain gets into these little loops and it just does things where all of the little stumbles I had in the beginning of the month were entirely because a machine was not locked down very well. Like without even thinking it, like, oh, how'd this Hacker News get open on this homepage? Like, I don't even understand how I got here. And suddenly I'm like cruising the thread. It's like, it's such a strange behavior. So you have lapsed. Yeah. I've had, I've had a couple of times where I've like ended

up on common threads. It's like not a big big deal this is sort of like when we mentioned at the beginning of this like this is the difference between you and i where i feel like yeah getting back on the wagon is is like that's the journey of the wagon yeah and having a couple of stumbles here and there is like whatever it's no big deal. I will mention the totally funniest one for me that really caught me off guard is I went into an Apple store to check out the new phones. And I was like, oh, look at the size of this new phone. This is super interesting. Ah, I'm on Hacker News again. Like, how did this happen? Like, drop the phone. Like, it transmuted into a jellyfish in my hands. Like, how did this occur? I don't have any

understanding. Did my brain wander me into an Apple store, like, just to get its comment thread fixed? Like, I don't understand, was some part of my brain totally plotting this? I don't get it at all. Like, that to me was like the most hilarious moment of like, oh, if I'm touching a device that I haven't locked down, old me is going to Reddit in like seconds. And suddenly I'm looking at funny animal gifs. Like, how did this happen? It's like, it doesn't count if you're on someone else's phone. It's just such a funny moment. And it really struck me again about the habitual nature of this, like the, oh, you just open up Safari and sort of like do this little habit. Hang on a second, Gray. This is not like muscle memory. It's not like you just went

and pulled down a menu of favorites and clicked on the one you always clicked on you would have had to have typed in the url yeah but i i don't use favorites i always type in the url i think it's interesting because what i've noticed is like the computer i'm on right now like it you know i installed software like lockdown browser access to reddit and stuff and it's super interesting to notice that like when i did that each machine has individually had some sort of half-life where i open up the browser and like go to reddit and then the browser says you block this from yourself you idiot oh right of course like it just takes a little bit of a second to recognize something for behavior change yeah and then with each of the machines there's been this half-life of like oh i sort of do it less and less and less

and less yeah whereas in the past two weeks i haven't had any lapses at all because like oh i've been on all of these machines and everything's fine and i'm not even going to check but i just thought it was interesting like being in a totally different environment the old habit came right back again something about being in the apple store struck me as like, this is the most absurd way I could have a lapse. In the universe of all possibilities, this is the funniest one to me is like, is this way to do it? So. Grey, I've never used that kind of lockdown software, but I think about it a lot just out of curiosity. Can you override it? Is there like a code or a pin number or password that you can say no i you know i really need to look at how can you it's like presumably you can

override this software how does that work it depends on how serious you want to get so like on the wimpy end there are things like browser extensions which are to block visiting websites i always find those totally useless because they're just too easy to blow past. And it's one of my frustrations with the phone. Like it's very hard to block things properly on the phone. So that's on one end. On the more extreme end, you start getting actual pieces of software

that you install on your computer. And the one that I'm using called self-control is pretty hardcore. But ultimately, like if a man broke into the house with a gun and is like, you need to be on Reddit in 20 minutes or I'm going to kill you. Right. I know how to circumvent the software that's on my machine, but it's just too much of a pain in the butt. But I need software that's at a pretty high level of like this is a real pain to try to circumvent but it is possible like it's possible to do is the circumventing

built into the software like is it supposed to be there or is it like a cheat no self-control is the one that it's it's not built into the software that's pretty draconian that's yeah the intended use case of self-control is, say, you want to sit down at your computer, you're writing your term paper, and you really need to work for the next two hours and you can't goof off. The idea of self-control is to only run for some period less than six hours and then it turns off. But if you dig around in the terminal commands, you can set it so that it runs for i don't know three months and that's what i did is i went on all my machines and i said it so it's like three months

from now that'll be the time where i have to manually tell it to run again and so that's what's running on all my machines at the moment you remind me of that silas character from is it like angels and demons or or is it the Da Vinci Code? You know, the one who like, you know, it's like self-flagellation type thing. You're like putting yourself through this ordeal that seems so over the top. Let's see, like, this is the thing that's hard to explain. It doesn't feel like an ordeal. And that's part of what I mean by there's this thing where it's so much easier than I would expect. Okay. I genuinely, I'm just

going to use this metaphor here, but I'm not trying to beat on anything, Brady. I just like, as a comparison, but it's like years ago when I decided like, I don't think I need to follow the news. Or before then I decided like, I don't think I need very much TV in my life. You go through this period where you feel like, oh, I'm kind of missing this thing. But very quickly, it becomes this very abstract thing. And I think that's one of the reasons why, like, podcasts were super easy to kind of step away from. Because so many of the kinds of podcasts that I listen to

are all sort of like this show. They're continued conversations. Like, they're referencing what happens before. And if you step away for a while, coming back to it is like, it doesn't have like this super draw on it. And the internet is the same kind of thing where it's like, part of the fun of comment threads and memes is like the live mutation of all of these things and how they interact. And like, man, when someone makes like the perfect meme joke, that's like a mutation on an iteration that you've seen a thousand times like ah it's it's like it's a thing of beauty like

it's artwork unparalleled but you can only really appreciate it if you're there all the time and so when you step away and then come back it feels weirdly meaningless and i was super aware of that and like the couple times when i lapsed and I was like, found myself looking at the headlines, I was like, I just had this feeling like, oh, I'm here, but I don't care anymore. And I don't care anymore because I have no idea what happened in the last week with any of this stuff. And so that's what I mean. Like, I know it probably sounds from the outside like it's self-flagellation, but from the inside, it doesn't feel like that at all. It feels more like I've let go of a bunch of stuff. And they're all things that when you let go of them for a little bit become like much easier to let go of where do you get a sense of community like are you still part of any communities or like society like you're just pulling out all these different plugs over time at what point will you no longer be plugged into society at all yeah so this is the one thing that

i do want to kind of talk to you about in particular, Brady, because like of people that I know, like you seem pretty connected with the world and like, you know, what's going on. And I can say that in the past month, I feel like I am the most disconnected from the world I have ever been. Well, I know that because we spent 20 minutes before the show with me bringing it up to date with like the most massive news stories in the world we often before the show officially starts recording like oh you'll mention something and it's like oh maybe i haven't heard about that or like i vaguely heard about it but this time felt like a really different time where you're like here's this thing and my response is, I've never heard this word before that is apparently like the most important thing ever.

And I would agree, like it's an important thing. And so I honestly think that I am about as disconnected from the world as a person who lives in society can be right now. This feels like it's one step away from a cabin in the woods. And I'll tell you, I've been thinking about it a lot,

especially because of this show, us doing Hello Internet, because I don't mind being disconnected, even though this feels like, ooh, maybe it's a little much. But I am aware, like, this show's not a, like, it's not a news show. But it is a thing where we talk about stuff in the world. And the previous two Hello Internets were a really interesting case.

Because, like, we talked about the Project Cyclops one right at the beginning of September. And then we recorded a show two weeks later. And because I happened to be traveling and then extremely isolated, because now it's like, oh, I'm not even talking to anybody for this two week period. We came up to the show and like I was saying to you, I am basically the exact same person I was two weeks ago. We might as well have been recording a show minutes after we stopped recording the previous one for all the change that had happened to me at that point in time. And thus the episode where we do questions from the book was born. But it's super weird now because a month later, I'm still kind of having that same feeling like, man, I am so disconnected from the world. I'm not any

different from the same person I was two weeks ago. And I don't really know anything different about anything in the world from two weeks ago. I think if it was just me on my own, I wouldn't mind. But Hello Internet suddenly realized has to keep me tethered to the world to some extent, right? That's what has to happen. And so it's weird. I've been thinking about that actually a lot as we've been approaching this recording date and the week is going on. It's like, well, I don't know what's going to happen when we come to Hello Internet. Now, of course, I always feel that every time we go to record a show. But this does feel different because I'm definitely the most disconnected I have ever been.

So this just relates to something else that I've been thinking about a lot over the past two years, which is, I'll call it this, Brady, the importance of novelty in one's life. Like I do a lot of time tracking of how I spend my effort and energy. And in the last two years, I have been aware that because I'm self-employed and because I've been able to wrest greater control over my environment from the world gradually and piece by piece. It means that so much more of my environment is under my control that I've reduced the amount of like novelty in my life. You know, just the number of like, oh, have you done something that you haven't done before? Or have you done something that's new and i've been trying to track novelty in my life and i think that's sort of just been in the background but being extra disconnected with project cyclops has suddenly raised novelty to a much more important factor you know it's like you can't

both be disconnected and do nothing new. Like, those two things are not a delicious soup mixed together. I think it's a bad idea. No. I've been trying to think about, like, venues by which there can be more novelty. And I don't have this well thought out,

but I've been kind of thinking, like, doing different stuff for the show if I'm disconnected from the world. Maybe suggestions from the audience about like, here's a novel thing to do or try. I don't really know, but I just don't think being totally disconnected and also lacking in novelty is a good combination. So you're saying have people from the audience make suggestions like go to a pony painting party or something like that? Right. Here's the thing, Brady. I was immediately like, I'm not going to a pony painting party.

That's ridiculous. But surely isn't that the whole point is like, this would be something that would be novel. Yeah. I don't know. It's just a thought. I don't know if it's going to go anywhere, but it is one thing that I'm aware of one month into this Project Cyclops and looking down the barrel of three more months. All right. We'll think on it more and come up with a way to make it happen. I've had a thought, you know. Yeah. Because I'm still not convinced that you haven't misdiagnosed this whole thing, right?

And putting all the blame on podcasts and Twitter and Reddit and stuff like that. I'm not entirely convinced that there aren't other things going on and you're just like finding something to blame. Right. Tell me more, Dr. Brady. I've got something else to blame. Have you thought that maybe a contributing factor to your problems or the things that you're trying to deal with in this way could have been caused by the Apple Watch.

Because it does coincide, like the decline does seem to coincide with the time that you got the watch. It's this new invasive piece of technology. You talk about how, you know, you feel like you can't get away and there's always things nagging at your attention and that, and you've got this thing on your wrist. Have you ever considered that the apple watch was a contributing factor i'm actually only half joking brady don't you dare speak ill of my beloved apple watch all right just throwing it out there i know you're very interested in finding anything other than my stated reasons for what's going on. But I think it's an interesting point. I would say no. But if I was a different kind of person, the Apple Watch would have been super bad news in my life. I think for people who get a lot of notifications from their phone and from the internet and who don't do a

good job of managing those notifications the apple watch is like an accelerant to that fire so yeah i think you're right that for certain people it could be super bad news but my apple watch is ridiculously locked down so i do not think that is the source of the problem but i appreciate dr brady looking for other reasons why what's going on may be going on just just putting it out there are you tempted by the apple watch yet brady you know there's a new one i know there's a new one do you know what i feel further away from wanting one than ever before okay tell me why why i don't understand because my affection for mechanical watches is ever increasing and i feel so connected

to my phone i already feel like i'm an absolute slave to my phone it's always in my hand i'm always looking at it i'm always taking it out of my pocket or it's i don't even need to because i don't see a need for more technology and notifications on me and it's not because i'm mr hey i'm too cool for technology it's opposite. I'm already too controlled by it. And the Apple Watch doesn't look that good. And it's like a bit samey and everyone's got the same one. And I don't know, I spent a lot of time with people who are wearing smart watches just lately, particularly Apple Watches. And it just put me off even more. What, because of how often they were getting buzzed and distracted? No, not even that. I just don't. You just don't like the look of it?

Yeah, I don't like the look of it. And I don't like what it is. I don't like that it's this little black computer on your wrist. There's virtually nothing that appeals to me about it. I love the way you say that you don't like what it is. I feel like I received a real feeling in your expression of the way you said that. That's like, blah, like like i don't want this thing and i was asking and i just find it interesting because this year in particular i feel like is evidence for my theory that they're

going to just keep adding so many health features to the watch yeah that it eventually becomes a device where it seems almost reckless not to wear one. Well, the thing is, it's going to become mandatory. Aren't there like insurance companies now that are including some kind of, you know, Apple Watches or health tracking as part of the policies and stuff? And that's part of what I meant when I said I don't like what it is. Like, it's this increasing, like, sameness of us all. Like, because as they become more common and more popular, you see them more and more,

all of a sudden, we're all wearing the same watch you know we all have the same phones or they look the same for all intents and purposes yeah and now we all have the same watches like it's this other part of like our expression and our personality and that that's been taken away and replaced with this same thing and all the kind of ills and evils that come with technology you know tracking and monitoring and addiction to connectivity and things like that like it's like oh god like and i'm as i see it becoming more and more common it doesn't appeal to me more it makes me oppose it more it's like oh i don't want to be wearing the exact same thing on my wrist as everyone else no i can really feel that like i understand totally what you mean by that when you say

what it is this little black snail wrapped around everybody's wrist but this is like there are these inevitable or at least they seem to me inevitable arrows of technology. And I really like my Apple Watch, but my theory has always been like, you will wear one eventually because it will seem crazy not to. But I guess it never really occurred to me until this moment that that doesn't mean that you'll like it. I think in my head, I always assume like,

oh, Brady, he'll like it at some point. But that's not a necessary condition for Brady will wear the Apple Watch. It'll be because my insurance is voided if I don't wear it or something. Yeah. And like the things that they added this year about fall detection and heart health detection, I don't think it would be mandatory in a first world democracy but i could see that like the insurance premiums for not having it just become too onerous so that it's functionally mandatory like i could imagine that

happening i don't know suddenly brady i find myself having just so much more sympathy for you in this position because again like when i thought, oh, Brady will wear one eventually. And I thought, and he'll be happy. But maybe not like, oh, I don't want Brady to be in an unavoidable Black Mirror universe. That makes me sad thinking of that. That's what it is. It feels like I'm living in a Black Mirror episode, when I'm sitting at a table, and every single person's all wearing the same watch, you know, what if they suddenly said, okay, everyone in England now has to wear a black t-shirt every

day and that's all you can wear. You all have to wear black t-shirts. I mean, you'd love that, but I'd hate it. Anyway, anyway, I didn't mean to start an Apple watch discussion. I'm sorry. Hold on to your mechanical watches, Brady. I really just feel like you're the underdog all of a sudden, and I'm really gunning for you to hold on to those mechanical watches. Hold on tight. mechanical watches, Brady. I really just feel like you're the underdog all of a sudden, and I'm really gunning for you to hold on to those mechanical watches. All right. Hold on tight. We'll see how we go.

So Brady, you have been in Peru. I have. I was there for two weeks. It's my first time there. Yeah? What was it like? Very beautiful. Was it hot?

Did they have air conditioning? The weather was perfect. What does perfect mean to you brady it means not so hot that you are sweating not so cold that you have to put on a big coat that does sound perfect basically sweat is a big like point where i cease being happy so i don't like sweating yeah no it disgusting. It makes you feel all too human and made of meat. Sweat, no good. Sweat's not good. So yeah, I went to Cuzco, which is one of the highest cities in the world. It's a very high altitude city, very beautiful heritage listed UNESCO sort of thing city, and then spent a few days there and then started a big long trek that culminated at the very famous

Machu Picchu but I didn't use the traditional Inca trail that all the backpackers use I went on a different trail called the Salcante trail which is sort of a longer roundabout way to arrive at Machu Picchu that involves going around this huge big mountain called Salcante funnily enough over the Salcanteay Pass. And then you approach Machu Picchu from a different perspective. It was really good. If you go to my Instagram, you'll see just a small collection of the 3,000 photos I took while I was there. I'm not lying. I took 3,000 photos. Well, I mean, you have to make sure you remember it, right, Brady? You can't have it disappear into a vacation that was amazing. And then you just don't even remember it

afterward. What would be the point of that? This is exactly true. This is exactly true. Okay, so going to Machu Picchu. Question. This is such a bucket list place for so many people, like the city on the top of the world. It's amazing how many people I saw use that exact term bucket list in like comments and

responses when I said that I was there. Like, oh, that's on my bucket list. It wasn't on my bucket list. Brady's just incidentally going to Machu Picchu. He's passing by. Oh, I did this thing. Do you know what? That's kind of true.

Jesus Christ. It kind of was. No one just accidentally strolls into Machu Picchu. This is the situation. Okay. I wanted to do trekking and walking in high mountains. And I've done it a couple of times in the himalayas and basically we were just looking at other places we could do it and peru seemed like a really good option and most of the good treks in peru that we looked at happened to be

ones that culminate at machu picchu because it's such a you know amazing place and great place to go so it wasn't like we sat there thinking we want to go to Machu Picchu. We were thinking we want to walk in amazing mountains and like stay in nice places. Then we found this great trek that we wanted to do. And it just so happened that the destination was Machu Picchu. Okay. All right. That makes sense. And Machu Picchu is amazing. Don't get me wrong. It was one of the places in the world that I have been to that looked amazingly like the photos. Well, that's what I was kind of wondering. Like it's on all these people's bucket lists because it's a trek to get there. And it looks great in photos, but I can't help but have the suspicion that were I to trek to

Machu Picchu, perhaps in a quest of novelty, that's definitely not going to happen, that I would arrive and go like, yeah, it looks just like the photos the photos i don't know why i don't feel that way about lots of places i don't feel that way say for example about antarctica but something about manchu every time i see a photo i think i bet it looks just like that when you're there and so i don't feel any need to go the only thing that i felt differently about when i was actually standing there was you have a greater sense of the setting that doesn't come across in photos like all the mountains that are around you and how high all is in the cradle it sits in like you do have a greater sense of the place and the how extraordinary

it is that it is in this place like when you see that the typical photo of the ruins and the little peak behind and that sort of thing like you know that's pretty and interesting looking but you don't have this sort of sense of the grandeur of the overall setting and how they got it there you know i was thinking during the trip a few times about whether you would have liked the trip and whether it would have been a good thing for you, especially in the context of Project Cyclops. I didn't put headphones on and listen to stuff like I didn't listen to podcasts or audio books and things like that while I was walking, which I have sometimes on other trips. I just walked partly because I was with a few other people so I could talk to them. But also because I just liked the solitude of just like hearing my footsteps and my breathing all the time. And I found it very peaceful, very disconnected.

And I really liked it. And I thought, I think this would be good for Gray. Maybe this is the sort of thing he needs to do. Like just a week of your own brain and just the sound of your own body and massive mountains all around you. Also, the coffee was really good, apparently. And it was so good that I even tried some because you walk through coffee plantations and we went to a coffee plantation and then they showed us how they were roasted. This woman roasted the beans in front of

us and then like cooked it all up and made coffees. So I thought, oh, I have to try that. So I drank my second ever cup of coffee. What did you think? What was the verdict? It was pretty good. Like my first cup, I thought it tasted a little bit like dirt. But I liked it. I love that description. I just, I really do. I never would have thought that, but you're totally right. It's like, yeah, coffee does kind of taste like dirt.

But more bitter, almost like dirt would be better. But people who know coffee were telling me that all the coffee we had everywhere was really good. There was one thing about the trip that I think will be a deal breaker if I tell you. Okay. So do you want to be put off the trip? Look, there's a 0% chance that in my life I'm going to Peru. Like this is not going to happen. I've looked at a map of the world and I put circles around places I'm likely to go

and big crosses around huge swaths of the earth, where I'm just like, you know what? I can live and die and never set foot on this continent, and I'll be fine. South America, I'm sure you're beautiful. I feel no pressing need to go. So you can ruin my trip to Peru. You're missing out on a lot of stuff by doing that,

but, you know, each to their own. The thing that you wouldn't have liked, and it happened three times two of them in particular is the driving i have heard stories in the past about some of the mountain drives that you have to do in peru in cars or buses and how precarious they can be and two of the drives in particular that we did where we were going from you know point a to point b before we could do the next part of the track were hair raising to say the least along like the sides of these mountains and cliffs and like 30 centimeters to your left is this precipitous drop

into a ravine of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of meters you're in some vehicle that you're not that comfortable with with a driver who you don't know and it's a dirt road and there are trucks and buses and cars coming the other way around blind corners and at least 30 or 40 times on each drive you think we're about to tip over and go over this cliff it was really quite scary most people in the vehicle were terrified by like a lot of white knuckles yeah i was quite open to the fact that this could be it you know this could be how i die oh oh wow okay so even tough as nails brady was like coming to terms with death yeah i mean in my head i would have just i would have like walked out of the vehicle and just like dusted myself

down right maybe had a broken phone. Right. You don't need Michael Douglas to save you in the jungles. I understand. No. But you definitely would have found that unpleasant. They're only like 30, 40 minute drives, but highly unpleasant. Yeah.

No, no thanks. I think I may very well skip that. But you're totally right that hiking in the woods, that is a thing is right up my alley. You got to get the mountains, Gray, not the woods. The mountains have got something more. There's something more. Brady, I love your romantic something more voice. Does the Pacific Northwest count for you? Because in a tiny precursor to this current project of isolation,

like this past summer, I spent a week in Washington doing exactly that, just like going into the in Washington doing exactly that. Just like going into the mountains and doing hikes. You know, it wasn't for an extended duration to a particular location, but it was hikes in the woods. There were mountains in those woods. It's good. I need to walk more. I want to walk and trek more. I think it's good for the soul. I totally agree with you. I think it is really good for the soul. Like it's in terms of things that I'm trying to do more of this year. That is definitely one of those things. I have some hiking boots in the UK. Finally, I've always had hiking boots in America and I've just never bothered to buy any here. So yeah, walking in nature, even though I'm like not a huge nature guy I will totally acknowledge that your phrase is exactly

correct it is good for the soul to do that and it's perhaps one of my growing frustrations with London is like there's not a lot within convenient striking distance that's even remotely like that to do you know whereas visiting my parents in north carolina you know as with much of america you're never too far away from wilderness in most of america and it's like oh boy in north carolina in 20 minute drive you can feel like you're in the middle of a terrifying forest that no human has ever seen before but not so much in the southeast of england no you got to go a few hours out at least. Or you got to go to Peru.

Yeah. So I spent some time with Americans while I was away. Okay. And I have another one of my little observations about Americans that I have learned they did not like having pointed out. Or maybe I just pointed it out indelicately. I can't imagine that, Brady. But here is my observation. Okay. And you explain it to me.

I have theories, but I'm sure you have the definitive answer. So at some points we were required to introduce ourselves to say who we were and where we were from. It was actually for this blessing ceremony. So we were saying it to this shaman who didn't speak English, but we had to say our name. I am Brady. I am from England.

And then he would say some prayer in his native language and bless us to the mountains for the trip. I am Brady. I'm from England. I am Jeff. I am from Canada. I am Sandy. I am from Australia.

And then it will always be, I'm Max. I'm from North Carolina. I'm Sam. I'm from Texas. Why do Americans always say the state they're from and not the country? Whenever they're introducing themselves, hey, hey, who are you? Where are you from? I'm Bill. I'm from California. Why not? I'm Bill. I'm from California. Why not? I'm Bill. I'm from the US. I'm American. They always say the state. You sound frustrated by this. I am. This is hearkening back to, what was it, like the letters that you get where they would just list the state? I think it's the same root cause as well. Oh, you think, okay, you think it's the same root cause. I don't quite remember what you thought was the root cause there okay in defense of americans

don't you dare say america is a big country no look i hate that argument too because there are lots of big countries yeah no there are lots of big countries and this is also where i really hate the argument that many americans drag out about how they'll say America is a big country, but then the part that really gets me is they'll immediately follow up with, and it's so different in different places. That's exactly what I was being told. How diverse and different. I said, I've been to lots of countries and I think America is close to the most homogenous of all of them. There is totally a narcissism of small differences for americans but it's like again as someone who has driven thousands of miles across all of the various parts of america like i've been to alaska i've

been to hawaii i've touched a lot of states i that like for a nation of its size, America may be the most homogenous nation on the face of the earth. It's like, it's very samey everywhere. So I just totally reject the cultural, oh, the South is so different from the North. No, it isn't. It's not that different. Like, it's a little different, but it's not that different. So I was not going to give you that argument. And by the way, I should point out that this introduction thing I'm talking about is when you're outside America, of course, not when you're in America. Yeah. Well, what I was going to say, like, in fairness to Americans.

Yes. Not that America's big. But the state determines a lot of how you actually live in America, in theory anyway. The state is like the sovereign unit. And so what is really different between different states are laws about everything. And like, what can you do with your property here? What kind of taxes do you pay over there? So I think it kind of makes sense that people are thinking of in terms of this unit, like, oh, I live in New York and New York has like all of these laws and regulations and these are the things that I follow. And when people think about moving in America,

they're very often like jurisdiction shopping for like what do they want the rules or taxes to be like in other states. So I don't know. It just seems like it makes total sense to me that the primary unit of identity is the place that the rules are for where you live. And in America, that's the states. I accept that in America, but I think there must be some kind of lack of self-awareness to be able to put that to one side when you are outside your country and being asked where you're from when the shaman in the mountains of peru says where are you from surely you should have the self-awareness to say well he doesn't care what the difference is between property taxes in north dakota and new jersey i'll just tell him i'm from the united states i think you should be able to put that

to one side i don't know like here's the thing like i always feel like a total mess when people ask where i'm from because i again i never know how to answer this like well i grew up in america but i've lived in england for a long time but like you don't want my life story and i always try to triangulate based on the interlocutor what is the answer that is going to get me the least number of questions? But I will never say America. I will say New York. I will always say New York every time. And I don't think it's unreasonable to say New York because that gives people some kind of sense of what it is.

In the same way that, like, you know, listeners right now, when I say the word Arizona, you have an idea in your head of what Arizona is. There is a presumption going with all of this, admittedly, usually a correct presumption, that people know all the states of America. You know, if you say, oh, I'm from North Carolina. Okay, well, where's North Carolina? I don't know where that is. Is it, it's north of South Carolina?

Like- Correct, yes. There is a presum- I think Americans have a presumption that we know all the- I know New York. I know California. But like, not everyone knows all the states of America

or where they are or what that means. And yet people will use the state. I do think there is a vanity about it. I think the defense of it is, and you did touch on it inadvertently, is minimizing the number of questions you have to answer. Because America is so famous, when someone says, I'm from America, I'm from the United States, there will often be a second question. Oh, really? Whereabouts? Because I've probably heard of it. Yeah. They're immediately going to ask where. Yeah that's fair enough but i think there should almost be like a social norm or a humility to wait for that question to not just assume it's going to come

maybe it's the english like uh staidness coming out like sort of the over the top humility or people surely people wouldn't care where exactly where i'm from i'll just use the broadest possible answer say that you know because who would care about me? No one would care about me. I'm just an Englishman. So maybe there is that kind of that aspect of it, but just to presume that people want to know your lifestyle. Oh yeah. I'm from Wisconsin. One, I enjoy your sort of Texas, Wisconsin there. That was entertaining. Two, I'm enjoying that you're an Englishman in this conversation. You're the Australianian i meant the english part of me yeah all right the english part of my personality yeah but what i'm thinking of because i actually think that the best comparison

to this is the united kingdom it's the only place i can think of off the top of my head that has what feels like a similar jurisdictional division between the sub-entities. And I'm pretty sure that Englishmen, Scots, and the Welsh, and the Northern Irish, they're going to tell you which country they are from. They're not going to say the UK. They're going to say, I'm from Scotland. No, that's fair enough. That's fair enough. But do you think that's wrong? No, I don't. I think that's fair enough. That's fair enough. But do you think that's wrong? No, I don't.

I think that's a higher tier up myself. Like the difference between Scotland and England is a bigger difference than the difference between, you know, Texas and California even. I think they are countries. I don't know, maybe I'm being biased. I think that's fair enough. But I think if you met someone from England

and they said, I'm from Somerset, or I'm from Nottinghamshire, or I'm from Liverpool or Newcastle, I don't think that should be their first answer. Yeah. But that's like, instead of saying, oh, I'm from New York, it's like, I'm from Suffolk County. Nobody would say that. That's a crazy, especially at the county level, it's like, nobody cares at at all maybe if you say the town then some people would care but like the county who has loyalties to the county level of government no one no one cares about that so i don't think anybody would say they're from somerset county like that's weird if nothing else you have confirmed my belief that americans are very

sensitive about having this pointed out no i don't think't think it's sensitive. I think it's weird of you to say that Americans should say the top level jurisdiction. They should say the United States. Then how come everyone else in the group did? The Canadians didn't say what province they were from. Look, I don't want to hurt the Canadians' feelings here, Brady. Don't make me say things that I'm going to regret. But look, part of the reason as well, the rest of the world does get touchy about it, but America

really matters. It's a really important place that lots of people know a lot about. It's not just important on the world stage, but it's just hugely important culturally in the English-speaking world. So it's just, it's hugely important culturally in the English speaking world. So it's like, yeah, if you're talking to like a shaman in deepest, darkest Peru,

guess what? He's probably going to have seen movies that take place in New York and LA and San Francisco and Atlanta. Like he's probably seen these things. So as an American, as you stride upon the world, right, people know the concept of America and they also know the concept of the subdivisions of America. And it's like, sorry, Canada, you're a lovely nation, but people don't have a concept of the subdivisions of Canada in the same way that they would have a concept of the subdivisions of America. Yeah. So I think that's the reason why.

It's like, America is not going to be so polite as to pretend that it's not like a big deal on the national stage. I definitely agree with that statement. America is definitely not going to be so polite as to do that. I don't think it's polite. It's just, it's natural. People know. It's humble. It's humility. It it's all right i'm happy now you've said everything i wanted you to say as long as you leave that in i'm happy that that's exactly the attitude that i think they have and they're not wrong about it but it's not very humble i'm glad that i could confirm for you the non-humble nature of saying the state that you're from it is interesting After I had the conversation

later on on the trip, because I made some great friends on the trip who are Americans, people were coming up to them and I heard one of them, someone said to them, where are you from? And this woman answered, I'm from New York. I mean, the United States. Were you bullying the Americans on this trip? Were they touchy or were you a big bully? Like, no, you've got to say America. I didn't say they had to say anything. Did you say you were from England, Brady? I did, yes. Just pokey little England.

That isn't famous on the world stage. It was. That's why people know what England is. At one time, England bestowed across the world, but no longer. Give that another two or three years and I'll just say, oh, I'm from Europe. Although I won't be part of that anymore either. No, you won't be part of it. And also, look, give it another 20 years and we'll all be knowing the different provinces of China. And so, you know, things come, things go. This too shall pass. Hello, Internet. This episode is brought to you in part by Fracture. Like Brady, on your most recent trip, you may have taken one, two, perhaps even 3,000 photographs.

That's a lot of pictures. But how many of them are you going to look at again? They're just going to get lost into the digital void. Enter Fracture. Fracture takes your digital images and prints them directly onto glass to display in your home or office. So if you've just finished that hike through the mountains, or you've been at an important family engagement, take a look through those photos. Find the one that is special and get it fractured. Fracture prints are handmade in Gainesville, Florida from U.S. sourced materials, and they'll arrive in a sleek, frameless design

that goes with any decor, and it even comes ready to hang right out of the box with a little wall hanger for you, just in case you don't have one. So make the meaningful moments in your life more memorable by getting them fractured and displayed. To do this, go to fractureme.com slash hi for a special discount on your first fracture order. That's fractureme.com slash hi. And don't forget to pick Hello Internet in their one question survey to make sure they know you came from us. Thanks to Fracture for supporting the show. And thanks to Fracture for making everyone's vacations and

special moments more memorable. Check out this news story, Gray. Okay. This is just a little new story, but absolutely intriguing. From Australia. Of course. Basically, the nub of the story is there was a girl who committed some offense, some crime, and they didn't know whether to treat her as an adult or a juvenile because of leap years. Jesus. Like, what is this? Pirates of Penzance? Like, I don't understand what kind of courts you're running down there in Australia. Yeah.

I think her birthday was February 29. Okay. And she committed an offence on February 28. On the day before or the day of, she would have turned 18. So, does she turn 18 on February 28th, on the day before or the day of, she would have turned 18. So does she turn 18 on February 28th, in which case she would be tried as an adult, or does she turn 18 on the 1st of April, in which case she was still a juvenile when she committed the offence because she was 17. So because she was born on February 29th and she committed an offence on February 28 in a year where there was no February 29, so there was no 18th birthday to celebrate, they couldn't decide whether to try her as an adult or a juvenile.

Has Australia not run into this day before their 18th birthday? That's a pretty rare problem. for things like drinking. Yeah. You know, not like crimes. Driving, yeah. But drinking, driving. Like, surely Leap Day babies want to get driver's licenses when they can, and Leap Day babies want to drink as soon as they can, or serve in the military, or run for office,

or any of these things that require you to be a certain age. Like, how has this not been settled in Australia? Although I am very much wondering how it's settled in other countries, but there must be legal precedences for this kind of thing. You're right. There must be a precedent for when you can get your driver's license.

And is it the 28th of February or do you have to wait till... It's the 1st of March. Sorry, I should have said before, not 1st of April. No, 1st of April. That's how that works with Leap Day Baby. You have to skip a whole extra month. 1st of March. That would have been driving people crazy. Sorry. Sorry, people who are currently thumping a message into the subreddit. Quick, quick. Catch your breath, Brady. There's a tweet wave coming. You're going to be under for a few moments, but just hold out, man. You can make it to the surface. I am aware that March is the month after February and not April. Are you sure, Brady? because you said the other thing i did i did i you you said that you said i just i replayed it

back and i listened and you definitely said first of april so you were wrong you were definitely wrong and now i'm wondering like was my pirates penzance reference even correct i don't know like oh god the internet it'll come I'll find out four months from now. When you log onto Twitter and go through all those ads that you've missed over the last four months. That is something I am not doing. If and when I come back, boy, is it going to be a clean slate. I don't need any of that hassle. You should start a new Twitter account or something.

Yeah, I'll burn it all to the ground. All right, I was just trying to look up. Is there anything here? I can see precedence for in the United Kingdom, the status is your birthday counts for March 1st. Right. And the Supreme Court in Australia determines that this girl was 17 at the time of her offense.

Well, isn't that convenient? It looks like New Zealand goes the other way. They go February 28. Yeah, so it looks like there's a few countries. I don't see the United States on here. Maybe the United States has not yet run into a leap day criminal. Well, it'll be different from state to state in the United States, obviously, won't it? Oh, yeah.

Theoretically, yeah. Unless they're committing a federal offense. That's true. It will be different from state to state yeah if you're a proud south dakotan you know you can drive at 14 you know the all these different things so i should be looking at the state by state rules that's an excellent point there brady i mean obviously nobody would ever do this but you should actually be counting 365 days from the February 29th so that the person has like a rolling birthday right they keep sliding sliding backwards in time I guess it would right that's how that would work it would slowly go like the 28th and then it would eventually be the 27th

and then the 26th I think if it was me that's how i think i would handle the leap day birthdays but then all our birthdays would slide every four years like every person's birthday would slide yeah no actually that's a good point all birthdays are sliding birthdays this is obviously the most sensible way to solve this problem in the kingdom of gray all birthdays are sliding birthdays i have declared it as such Because you're firm on the 365 days being exact. Yeah, 365 days. That's what we're doing, people. All right.

So, Gray, tell me, in a restaurant, how do you feel about doggy bags if you've got leftover food? Oh. See, now, when you said doggy bags i was thinking something different you were thinking of poo bags no that's not what i was thinking of i was i was thinking of when i was growing up and we had our little yorkie and she loved to be with the family and we had a little handbag a little stealth doggy bag one could say in which she could sit and come to the restaurants with us and so when you say doggy bag and restaurant that is where my head went to immediately was okay how do i feel about

doggy bags and restaurants and the is, if the dog is well enough behaved to be stealthy, nobody needs to be the wiser. This is perfectly fine. No, obviously I'm talking about the bags the restaurant will supply or a box to put your leftover food in so you can take home and nibble on it later on. Because I was at a restaurant the other day and we had some leftover food and the restaurant person asked us if we wanted a doggy bag and one of the people i was with was outraged by the whole notion of doggy bags and thinks they're abhorrent and a bit gross and no i would never i would never do that other people i know do use them they obviously avoid food waste which is not a bad thing i don't understand what is the objection like you own the

food like you've bought it from the restaurant i mean if you wanted to you could slide it right into your purse like and then just take it out if you're at a restaurant and you order a pizza and you only eat half of it will you take the other half home no never but i mean that's mostly because i'm just lazy but yeah you're you're really like i always think of you as being you're definitely a one end of the hygiene spectrum and i would have thought the idea of taking home food like would maybe not appeal to you for hygiene reasons but i mean i get food delivered to the house isn't that the same like food is in transport across the city i don't

think that's any different yep i just don't do it because it's a lazy factor i know future me is never gonna heat up that food like it's not going to happen right now i am sitting 10 feet away from a refrigerator that has been stacked full of easily heat upable food by my wife who is gone for a while and she was of course concerned about what am i going to eat and has gone through great effort to make sure that there are supplies in the refrigerator yeah and like everything is as simple as it could be but i know there's a high probability that a lot of that food will not be consumed because it's like i have to heat it up this seems like it no i don't want to do this. It's like this extra step. When you could just call five guys for delivery.

Yeah. It's like, boop, boop. I can press a couple buttons on my phone and a delicious burger is delivered straight into my mouth. You know, why I have to turn on the oven and then, I don't know, this is not going to happen. So that's what the doggy bag feels like to me. I didn't come to a restaurant so that I would have to cook later. I came to a restaurant so that food would be prepared. But I don't have any problem with people taking a doggy bag home. I can't really conceive of what the problem would be. Like, again, you own the food now. You can do with it as you please. I think it was more like a snobby attitude. Like, oh, this is,

I mean, the fact it's called a doggy bag, like this is because this is food for the dogs. If you want to give it to your dogs, they would enjoy it greatly. And I would have no problem with that at all. I think that's perfectly fine. You can't be giving Audrey that much human food. No. Gotta watch her weight. Such a tiny thing, the big human portions. They're not for her. I mean, I know I haven't actually been to one, but I know there's restaurants in America where when you order, they don't have a doggy bag for you. They make a second copy of whatever you're ordering for you to take home. Is that a doggy bag? That seems fine. It's an interesting thing. They're just dealing in bulk. And the idea is like, oh, you ordered lasagna in the restaurant,

and we're also going to make a lasagna specifically for you to take home to have later. It's like, look at this economy of scale we're taking advantage of here. I totally want a lasagna now. I'm a bit hungry. I'm sorry, Brady. I shouldn't have mentioned it. Okay. Anyway, I'm seeking no answers from you.

It's just one of these issues where I thought, I wonder what Grey thinks about doggy bags. It seems like something you may have interesting views on. Turns out, not so much. But do you have thoughts? Like, are you pro or anti-doggy bag? I tend to not get them, but that's because I would have concerns about the cooling

and the heating of the food and that sort of thing. I'm not opposed to them. The simple fact is if I'm enjoying the food enough that I'm going to take it home, I've probably finished it anyway. And if I haven't finished my meal, it's not because I want to take it home, it's because I didn't like it very much. That's an excellent point. That's an excellent point, Brady. I'm not a big leftovers kind of guy at a restaurant. I've normally ordered something so yummy that it's gone in seconds. I'm to run over the catalog of meals i have eaten in restaurants that i would have enjoyed enough to bring home and you are correct i will enjoy them enough to finish it no matter how much there is yeah and then have dessert

look we haven't done the buzz for a while oh yeah we haven't done the buzz for a while. Oh yeah, we haven't done the buzz for a while. There's just a story I liked because it was a bit of a perfect hello internet storm because this combines the buzz and plane crash corner. Brady, you're not going to ruin the buzz for me, are you? Like, I don't want to hear about bees getting injured if that's what this is about to be. A swarm of bees flew into the engine of a Mango Airlines plane, forcing a delay in flights at the main airport in South Africa's coastal city of Durban. Bee experts were called in and they safely removed the estimated 20,000 bees from the engine, the low budget airline said. If you have a look at the picture, and then if you scroll down a bit further to a picture in a tweet, there's a picture of two, I'm assuming they're beekeepers or they're aero engineers dressed as beekeepers removing the bees from the engine of the plane.

Oh, I'm going to assume those are professional beekeepers. I don't think you can, you're not going to mess around with just getting the ground crew to put on a beekeeper suit and try to extract some bees. I think that's going to end really badly. A tweet from Mango Airlines. Two beekeepers were called in to remove a swarm of bees that had started building a nest in the engine of one of our aircraft. This unfortunately meant delays on three of our scheduled flights.

The bees were safely removed. I'm pretty impressed that bees went for a plane engine. I would have thought there'd be things about a plane engine that would have been deal breakers for a swarm of 20,000 bees, but obviously not. I think it would smell like gasoline. I don't know if it actually would. That's the way I would just imagine.

I'm genuinely relieved that no bees were harmed in this story. I thought you were going to tell me about some plane crash where a whole swarm of bees got sucked through the engine. So these have just been safely removed. I'm very glad about that. Within 25 minutes, these bees have decided to make the engine their home, presumably after the engine had been shut down. They got in there quick, didn't they?

Bees are busy. That's the way this worked, Brady. The thing that concerns me most about the picture, and I know this is a weird thing to be concerned about is the fact the beekeepers among their tools they seem to have a huge palm frond yeah i'm looking at that i don't quite know what the palm frond is for is that for tricking it doesn't seem very technical like when they're meddling around with like aircraft engines i don't like the fact that they're relying on part of a palm tree to make the engine safe yeah and like i know this has come up many times when we discuss

engines but what i want to imagine an airplane engine is it is a maw that will destroy anything that enters it and still keep working just fine. That's how I like to think of the engines. Like a black hoe. Yeah. Like in the movies, you can send a man right through an engine and the plane keeps going and it's fine, right? Whatever. And it feels so much like what an engine actually is, is this incredibly delicate piece of machinery that a single bee in the wrong spot can totally destroy. You know, and it's like, I'm happy the bees were removed.

But part of me really wants to know, were they removed because someone running that airline really likes bees, which would be fine? Or were they removed because the engine would not be able to survive a bunch of bees? So you're saying really they probably could have just started the engine and the bees would have just been mashed up and everything would have been fine. But they were being like politically correct. I don't want the bees to be hurt. I hope they were doing this to save the bees especially like here's the thing that calls us into question for me brady the line that you read there 20 000 bees removed from the engine the low budget airline said yeah and then like you say, and that to me sounds like, would a low budget airline really care about this delay for the bees? Or is the low budget airline worried that the bees are going to destroy the engine?

Also, journalistically, Gray, why do they have to say that it's a low budget airline? Like we only really do that with airlines, do we? We wouldn't say like the low budget food, or maybe we would. Yeah, I don't't know i don't have familiarity with the style guides here i find it weird that articles will always mention a person's age when it doesn't seem relevant right they'll be like oh you know tim mcginnerson 41 from minnesota i always found that annoying especially as a journalist who sometimes would get told off by the sub editors for not having an age. Sometimes it's to do with identifying the person

so they can't be confused with someone else, particularly if you're reporting a crime or something, so the other Tim McGinnison or whatever doesn't sue you. But generally, I think, yeah, they do go a bit over the board with ages. Tell you what, though, this is a good piece of journalism, this B piece, because I'm reading further down and do go a bit over the board with ages. Tell you what, though, this is a good piece of journalism, this bee piece, because I'm reading further down and they go into great detail. It says here, it took a while for the removal team from the privately owned ABC company,

bee spelt B-double-A. Very clever. Very clever. To get approval from the airport authorities to get on the runway. So obviously these beekeepers had to, like, you know, get security checked before they could go on with their palm frond and start poking around in the engine. Yeah. What is that palm leaf for? I just keep, I keep staring at it in this photo. He's

holding it like it's important. Look at this. This is so thorough. The bees are now at the home of his brother, a beekeeper, and would be taken to farms, Mr. Dawson said. So they're even reporting on the future of these bees. I like the idea that the author of this article, 20 years from now, he's going to have a podcast and he's going to be following up his old bylines and he's going to be thinking, I wonder whatever happened to that hive. Mike Biles, the chairman of the south african bee industry association said the bees were probably just taking a break in the engine normally those places are greasy smelly and hot and not at all ideal as a permanent home for bees bees prefer secluded wood cavities this is very unusual

he was quoted as saying is Is that a thing bees do? Are they like, oh, we got to sit down for a little while, ladies. Like, this has been a rough flight. If they're migrating, they're migrating from one side of the airport to the other. And I thought, oh, there's a nice big, warm, round, dark area that we can take. I love that the chairman of the South African Bee Industry Association has now been quoted on Hello Internet. The buzz takes you to places you'd never imagine. That's very true. Thank you for this update on the buzz, Brady. I really appreciate it. Listener, are you a little sleepy right now? Do you feel like you're not as rested as you could be?

Well, then you need Casper in your life. Casper makes amazing mattresses. I sleep on one. And they use multiple supportive memory foams for a quality sleep surface with the right amounts of both sink and bounce. They really are fantastic mattresses. And I don't know if you're like me, but I often find that I get very hot during the night. I'd much rather sleep in a cool environment. And the Casper breathable design helps you to sleep cool and regulates your body temperature throughout the night. Now, there's two different kinds of Casper mattresses that you can get, the Wave and the Essential. The Wave features a patent-pended premium support system

to mirror the natural shape of your body, and The Essential has a streamlined design at a price that won't keep you up at night. And to go with their mattresses, Casper also offers pillows and sheets, all to help you sleep better. And it's all designed, developed, and assembled in the United States. Now, where do you have to go to get this amazing mattress? Nowhere. It's shipped right to your door. Yes,

you're going to get a box that when you open it, out will come a mattress. It will inflate in the room and you will sleep well. And the shipping is free in the U.S. and Canada. Now, Casper is so confident that you will like their mattress that they offer you a 100-night risk-free sleep on it trial. So you get over three months to be sure that you like this mattress. There's really nothing to lose. So to get $50 towards select mattresses, visit casper.com slash hi and use hi at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. That's casper.com slash hi and promo code hi at checkout. Thanks to Casper for supporting the show and thanks to Casper for helping the world sleep better. Great. I know I'm being a bit of a moaner today.

Can you handle one more moan from me? Brady. If I couldn't handle Brady moans, we would not have a podcast together. Look, Brady moans, they're beautiful things in their own way, right? This is what the podcast is for. It's for moaning. So of course, I want to hear another Brady moan. Little behind the scenes secret people here. I've actually got another six or seven moans written here. So Gray, I want to talk about the C word. In fact, I want to talk about two c words oh i want to talk about

the word content and creator yeah so i know this is a little bit inside baseball but obviously people that do our kind of work often referred to as content creators. And I don't want to put any noses out of joint of people who use it, including many of my friends and you and me. I use the term all the time as well. I use the word content for what we make and creator for what we are. So I'm criticizing myself as much as anything, but I hate the term content creators and I hate the term content in that context, and I hate the word creator in that context. I hate the description. I'll give you another comparison that is another C word, which is at some point in time, people who went into stores

and purchased things, they would be called customers. And then this transmuted into consumers. This is what people became. And I think this happened sort of the same way that content creator has become a thing because customer feels like you're going into your local haberdasher and you're handing them money

for a product. But when you go to Netflix, it feels like it's a different thing. You're consuming their content that has been created for you. Yeah. But I find the word consumer revolting. It's more visceral, isn't it? Yeah. Like you're eating it.

Yeah. It's like Netflix is pouring slop down your throat and you're going to consume it. That's what you're going to do. It's like, oh, look at these iPhones. Consume them. Right. Just like, oh, it's just it's disgusting. Yeah.

And it's dehumanizing. And I think content creator, it's not quite as visceral, but it's the same feeling to me where it's like, what do you make? Oh, you make content to be what? be what consumed that's what you make like we're all in this disgusting wheel of filth together it's this looped human centipede of consumption and content creation exactly funnily enough the reason i don't like content is the opposite reason that i don't like creator okay content i don't like for the same reason as consumer. I feel like it depersonalizes and dehumans what's being made. Because I've heard my work also previously described by people in the advertising world

as inventory. Are you going to have any inventory this month that we can advertise against? It's like, for God's sake, I don't think I making like the Mona Lisa here or anything, but just calling it content or inventory does. It just makes it sound like filler, just something that's going to fill the void on YouTube so that the advertising has a reason to exist. Like I hate it.

I hate it being called content. I know they need a generic word that will cover all the different kinds of content, say like videos and podcasts and all the different things that one may create. But I just wish it wasn't that. I don't know. Just call it what it is, a video or a podcast or something, but this generic content, it's just there to fill a space, isn't it? It's like YouTube is this void that needs to have polyfiller put between all the cracks so that it's complete,

so that it can have its ads and we're just the people filling in the cracks. Don't like that. And creator, I have the opposite problem with. I think it makes people who do jobs like ours sound like too grandiose because only people like us are creative and can have ideas and make interesting things. Or I think of like, you know, God is often referred to as the creator. Whoa, going right to the top. Exactly. Well, that's it. Like, you know, the creator, I think creator is such a grandiose title. And I don't like it when you're referring to like, oh, look over there, there's a group of creators. Oh, this meeting here is just for creators. I think it's a bit

self-important. So content creators is this perfect storm of absolute slop combined with this grandiose godlike status and neither of which I think are anywhere near appropriate. I like that. Okay. now I really understand your reaction here because yes, it's content creator. It's a self-proclaimed God producing slop. Oh man, you're really making me laugh referring to advertising slots as inventory. I can't remember if I've mentioned it before,

but I have really settled on my perfect description of my job when people ask what I do. They get zero follow-up questions as I say, oh, I'm in advertising inventory management. Perfect. No one ever asks another question because it's just like, oh, that sounds terrible. Nobody wants to know more. I was like, I was seeking out like terrible words. And yeah, referring to advertising as inventory is just like, oh, nobody likes that. There's a mutation on creators, which I also really don't like and find it even a bit. It's a bit grosser because it's low again. But companies will talk about needing more creatives.

They'll say like, oh, we need to hire more creatives. And that is also just somehow going from creator to creative does the flip in my mind as well, where the company's like, we need a bucket of creatives and we're going to put them in this room so that they can produce content like they're paper clips you need to buy more paper clips and we need four creatives like that's how it feels and it's a thing to complain about like oh we don't like this. I guess it's natural. Like, it's a natural phenomenon.

But this trend over time that words become, like, depersonalized or job descriptions become longer. Like, as you wind back the clock, you have clear words that exist in the English language to describe professions and things that people produce. But as technology marches on and things become more abstract, and also the rate of change happens more quickly, I think it's kind of inevitable that you end up with these sorts of bucket words. As a different example, it's like the word engineer has been stretched to encompass so many things in the past 15 years.

Yeah. That to say that someone is an engineer tells you barely more about them than to say, oh, this person is a content creator. It's the same thing. It's such a broad word. Content creator is even more vague. At least if I met someone and they said they're an engineer, I would think, well, okay, you're probably quite technically smart, and you probably know a little bit of mathy stuff or a bit of sciencey stuff, maybe. I feel like i'd be on safe ground there but if someone says they're a content creator they could be a youtube video maker or that could be a knitter the creator thing gives you the same level of information

though where you say like oh someone says they're an engineer you know they're probably mathy and you know someone's a content creator it's like well they have to have some level of creative skill to make things i guess like i think it's almost the exact same level of thing i find creative such a vague word as it is because you can be creative in so many different ways that aren't necessarily artistic or visual anyway i understand the utility of the words and that's why i use them because we've we now live in a world where saying that you know helps you convey some meaning in some contexts if you're at a youtube conference and someone says to you what are you doing here and you say i'm a content creator they're like okay i know how you fit in now you know yeah

but i still don't like it. Yeah. And I've totally done that. But the scenario in which it's effective is exactly the one that's so gross. It's the, oh, right, you fit into this machinery. You're making the things. You're producing inventory with your creative content that then advertisements are being slotted into. It's like, oh're we're all discussing

this in the level of the machinery of how this system works and yeah of course for any of these kinds of systems like you're going to end up with lingo and ways to just convey things quickly and that's fine but you do end up in this weird position where like such a big class of people end up with the like the jargony way to describe what they do and we just we just don't seem to be inventing new words fast enough to talk about all of the different kinds of things that people do. I'm trying, Gray. You know I'm trying. Oh, I know. No, you're the best at it. But we're also in this situation where you'll end up with words

that then relate to a particular company, which I don't like. And it's one of the reasons why I try very hard never to say, like, I'm a YouTuber. Even though lots of YouTube people love to say that, but I a YouTuber, even though like lots of YouTube people love to say that, but I always feel like I don't work at YouTube. I make things that fit in their system, you know, the content that has been produced, but I don't like that either as a description where it's like, oh, this company name becomes a description of what you do. That does have utility, that description though. I think when you say that to someone in the normal world away from YouTube, they don't think you work for YouTube. They

understand that you make YouTube videos. Yeah. That has totally happened now. Yeah. I don't say I'm a YouTuber, but I do say I make YouTube videos. Yeah. That's a better way to phrase it. Also, someone a couple of years ago pointed out a thing to me, which I cannot unhehear and now i'm going to pass this mind virus on to everybody else but when you say the word youtuber they're always thinking like a like a tuber like a potato and it's it's a you tuber and i can't get this out of my head i can't not hear it that it's it's not youtube or it's you tuber that that's that's what the person is so anyway mind virus passed along it's not the reason i don't really like the word

i don't think that one's gonna spread like a bowl of mate i don't think you'd worry i i just like a weird one that i can't unhear it i hear it every time and like now i'm just i just gotta pass this along. But I don't know. There's no good solution to it, but I hate the words. I hate the words. They make me sad and I still end up like you do having to use them because there is no clearer way to talk about the situation sometimes. They are a necessary evil.

They are the C words we have to say.