Help I Swiped Right - Help...Who Should Pay For the First Date?

Episode Date: January 4, 2026

Hello Swipers!Happy New Year! For the first episode of 2026 I am joined by Kay @ohkayinvesting as we discuss all things money and dating.We get into topics such as:Who should pay on the first date?The glamorisation of the soft girl aestheticPaying off a partners debtWould you date someone who earns less than you?Send your money dating dilemmas to [e-mail] or DM me on Insta @HelpISwipedRight

Hello and welcome to another episode of Health High Swip Drive. I'm super pleased to be joined by a guest this week on the podcast. I love these guest episodes and I know that you guys love them as well. Just a quick reminder to follow or subscribe to the podcast or if you're listening and make sure to leave a review if you've not done so already. I know I keep saying this, but I keep saying this because it's something that really helps the podcast to grow, so I'll be eternally grateful if you can take a couple of seconds to do that. Now on to the episode and our guest. So I am joined this week by Kay, who runs an

investing Instagram and YouTube channel called OK Investing, where he shares investing tips. So me and Kay met actually at a dating event, and it was a great event actually, not a small dating events. It's really nice. You actually have proper chats with people. And Kay and I ended up having a really interesting chat at the event about money and dating. So I thought, I've got to get you on the pod. So why not? Come on. Yeah. Thanks so much for joining. Thank you so much for having me. Now, honestly, meeting you at that event was actually just lovely because it's been a while since I've actually created any content of my own. And even though my channel's called OK Investing, I eventually wanted to branch out into all different sides of investing, whether it's like finances,

your health, you know, the connections that you make around you. I have made one episode about relationships now that can tie into investing. But especially in today's climate, I think there's so much that ties finances with the kind of person that you're going to meet. And yeah, I think we already had a really good conversation on the day. So I thought, yeah, why do I not speak about that even more? Yeah, thanks for coming on the podcast. pleased that you were interested in coming on because, yeah, we had a great chat at dinner

at a dating event and I thought, this is content. We should just recall this conversation right now. But yeah, let me should talk about the event quickly. So it was called dating unswiped and the whole idea behind it, it's, you know, there's now so many dating events kind of popping up and they're really springing in popularity. I think as people are looking to get off the apps. So this, the creator of dating and swipe Lauren, I think actually DM'd help I swipe right on Instagram. We connected. Yeah, I was chatting to her about it. And she told me about the event that was coming up. And I thought, yeah, do you know what? I'm going to go along. Like, why not? That sounds great. She is good at what she does. She's very good at sorts.

Yeah. No, I think the event was like really, really good. I think I've only been to one other event that was similar in concept and they're always interesting. I think my kind of personality, I'm just like, you know what? We only live once. Why not? You don't know the kind of people that you all would meet there. So might as well just to see what it's going to be like. And everyone there was really, really lovely. I think I really like the idea of wanting to build a community, kind of trying to create what possibly our parents or grandparents had in that kind of like third space. So you're not necessarily even going there to necessarily meet someone, but just meet cool people than if you have friends that you know match with you know the kind of people that you

saw then you can recommend them and i think that's a really really good idea i definitely was skeptical and i was pitching so many ideas and have you thought about this how you thought about this to lauren and it seems like yeah she really did her research and i think also her hosting ability was like really really good just making people feel comfortable as well yeah she's great i hope to get her on the podcast soon to recall the episode to talk more about dating and swiped and like to talk about the event in more detail and her plans for the future with that. But yeah, I agree with you. Like, it was great. I went into it more of the mindset to make friends as well. And that's exactly what happened. I met great people, including

yourself, had really good chats with people. I knew this woman was serious when she came prepped with business cards. I was like, okay, I have to, I have to see this one. No, that was Was it a dating event? Was it a networking opportunity? Look, do you know what? It's always a bit of ball. I bring my business cards wherever I go because when I forget them, it's so annoying, you know, so yeah, the help I swipe write business cards. People might have noticed that I'm not the most active, you know, on social media. So that is how I do a little promo for the pod, the old fashion way, good old business cards. I think that's cool. And honestly, you say that like as a bad thing. I think it's actually great to meet people that are a bit disconnected.

You know, I think we're supposed to social media. It's created this kind of acceptance that it's okay to be a window shopper in people's lives. Yeah, I don't know. That's why even personally, when I date and whoever I'm speaking to is like, oh, yeah, have my Instagram, because phone numbers are so personal. I'm like, really, we'll go on each other's Instagram, right? And then when you're scrolling through reels and now it has that new feature where it shows you what people have liked, some of the things that pop up, it's like, I know way too much about you. Oh my God.

So honestly, and for me, I feel like I'm not trying to become a fan of you, you know, I want to actually get to know you. So I feel like phone call or sorry, phone numbers are a lot more of a direct way to actually connect. So that's personally what I like to go by. Yeah, that's fascinating because I find Instagram to be more personal than what's that. And yeah, sometimes when guys ask for your Instagram, I'm just a bit like, No, like you can have my number. Yeah, I don't like this whole asking for Instagram thing.

But it's weird. Everyone's got different perspectives on it. I chatted to female friends about this and they were like, oh, yeah, I'd rather chat on Instagram first. It's more informal and then go to number. Why? And while I use Instagram to chat, why, like, that's not a forum for me where I have conversations. Do you know what it comes down to? Honestly, I've got a lot of female friends as well.

And I think from a lot of the conversations I've had with them, it's down to safety. You know, it is still a scary world out there. You never really know who you're interacting with. So I guess in their minds, social media, despite it being very curated, is a way to try to vet people. Hey, so it's not about the guy seeing their content. They want to see the guys. The thing is, you go on a men's Instagram. There's nothing there.

They've just have to buy photos from 2019. Yep. Yep. It's exactly what it is. It's not even helpful. No. Or it's like I said, extremely curated to push a certain, like I deleted my personal Instagram ages ago. My Instagram that I have now, honestly, I created it just because so many people would just ask me for my Instagram. It's like, okay, I don't want to have that conversation again talking about how I want to disconnect. So I was like, cool, let me just make one. So it's a bit easier to connect with those that I guess I will add. But ultimately, I think I have a really approached dating in a scientific kind of way. I definitely see the types of connections I have with those that I add on Instagram and those I just interact with in person. And yeah, it's just night and day. I feel like, again, Instagram creates that false representation of like, oh, yeah, you're actually catching up with each other, but you actually haven't. Just because you know what's going on doesn't mean that you have personally gone out of your way to check in on me. Yeah, but it's weird. It's like we

shouldn't actually know all this stuff. Exactly. If you've got people on Instagram, well, you deleted it, but I've had my personal Instagram since I was 17 years old, I've got people on there from, yeah, secondary school, primary school. I shouldn't know what these people are up to. Do you know what I mean? Like it's weird. I've not spoke to for over a decade. I think the turning point for me, I don't know whether you still have Facebook. I have a very good, like one of my best friends and he was just telling me for ages, just delete it, delete it, delete it. And I think it just came to a day, right? And maybe I can be a bit extreme when I think about certain things.

I was like, if I got hit by a car, how long would it take for these people to actually know that this happened? And I was like, okay, cool. Most of these people aren't actually connected to me. They don't need to know my life updates. The ones that I actually care should already be connected to me. So yeah, and I don't need to know about them. There's only, I think one of the guys at the event actually was talking about it. I can't remember what it's called, but there's a limit to how many real connections your brain can hold at one time, you know, so I don't need to be attached to. I may sound harsh, but, people of the past, you know, there's a lot to live for in the future. So, yeah, just saving

space. So true. And obviously, us, single people navigating dating in London, it's all about the new connections and wanting to make new connections. So yeah, out of the old, can't keep up with these social media. Yeah, but it's, it's so funny that you should say that, because again, we were having a bit of a preamble before this started. Yeah. But when it came to this dating event, I was a bit discreet with why I was actually there, but to give the listeners a bit more background to me, yeah, I'll say my first dating experience started in uni, so my very first relationship in uni, I was 19. Got into like, yeah, very serious relationship. I felt like I was married for like three and a half years. Again, great relationship, which obviously came to an end.

My master's year lived my best life. That was definitely my whole face. And I honestly say, look do what you need to do um i think it as long as you're actually just interacting with people in an ethical way then i think it's completely fine it's you know it's literally 26 now so it's yeah it's completely fine how we say that was the ho phase yeah yeah see uh some people that know me may say differently but okay i would say that was my first experience in just you know just having fun as a single guy and yeah You're living the bachelor lifestyle. Exactly, exactly.

Yeah. And trust me, when you're studying a master's in computer system engineering, you need some way to blow up Steve. Yeah. I think that's classic, though. After you have your first long-term relationship, well, actually any relationship, I think you come out of it and not many people

want to go straight into something straight away. Like you need that single time. 100%. I think, oh, I'll be a bit careful about that. But my opinion is that you really, and I know not everyone is very successful with doing this, but I really think it's important to spend time by yourself. Yeah. You know, I think it's so easy to hop to the next because there's that longing of some kind of connection

or some kind of void that you now have. But honestly, filling that up with your own time in terms of like your own self-improvement, just pick up new hobbies. I think that's what can actually make you a lot more attractive to, people. It's like even in one of your previous conversations where you're talking about, you know, the timing between, okay, this person text and then this person texts. Honestly, if you're just doing your own thing and living your life authentically and people know all the different things that you're doing, then you don't really even need to have conversations like that because you're

just living your life. You know, if you have time to speak to people or you really want to at that point in time, you'll make the priority. So. Yeah, that's so true. And I said, this is why it's good to have you on the podcast as well. Like, I've only had one male guest so far prior to you. So thank you for being the second male guest on the podcast. In previous episodes, I've always been saying, I need a male perspective. And obviously given coaching about investing as well. And the top, we were talking about finances and dating at the dinner. So I thought, yeah, today's theme, I want it to be about finances and dating. So this is a question that I've talked about in previous episodes of the podcast, but it's a big one. It's one that people still love to talk about

in 2026, which is who should pay on the first date. So, obviously, traditionally, people think the man should pay. Now it's getting more common to be splitting the bill, going 50-50. What are your thoughts, Kay? I'm putting you on the spot here. That's completely fine. My honest take is that it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. But it does, you know, if you've been out there enough, dating is a numbers game. There are going to be people that are super attached to the idea

that the amount of money that a guy spends is correlated to the amount of interest he has. I personally, I do not agree with that. I think, honestly, all these rules that we have for each other and ourselves go out of the window when it comes to someone that you actually like, you know. But if you want to kind of go by this in like a scientific way, like what do most people like? What do most women like? Most women, of course, will like you to pay for them.

Especially like the first interaction, they see it as, you know, you've actually been a bit thoughtful, you aren't tight. There's different things that it kind of comes across as. And, you know, it's ultimately just trying to get to know someone. I personally had dates where women are paid for me. I've had 50-50s. Honestly, at this point, there's no kind of correlation to the type of person and what they would expect, because even the same kind of person will do drastically different types of things for different types of people.

But what I'll be honest, what I say to my guy friends, the more women likes you, the less you have to pay. I'll be very honest. It's like, I think if... But I'm just picking up how you phrased that, you said have to pay. So are you seeing this paying thing as something you have to do or rather than want to do? So this is so interesting. Not to speak on behalf of all men, but I am the person that normally says the quiet part out loud. Most guys are not paying for things off the kindness of their own heart. You know, I think there's this narrative that, oh, especially guys that just have that money are just super happy to spend it on.

people that they like. That is not true. There is some sort of transaction going on. I'm not saying dating should be transactional, but there is some expectation of like a give and take. And if a lot of those guys were told at the very beginning, oh, Matthew, like, you're such a nice guy. But I just want you to know from the get go, there is zero chance. We are going anywhere. But oh, I can't wait to go to Pakistan today, most of those guys would probably cancel. You know, that is the uncomfortable truth that I feel like some people need to probably get on board with. And I don't think that's a problem. I think it creates more of a problem when people have these kind of, I don't know how to call them, but just not

the best ideas of how men and women think. You know, guys are quite goal-orientated unfortunately. And it's not even unfortunately. There's obviously lots of benefits to that, but when it comes to the realm of dating, it depends what the guy's looking for at that point in time. And you will see that through his actions over time. Yeah. No, I hear what you're saying there. And I'll offer my perspective on it. Because you mentioned, oh, women, it's something like, you know, about the amount that's being spent on you. For me, it's not that at all. I would be really happy if a guy picked a very low-key restaurant that was like 20 pounds each and him paying for that would be a really big gesture to me like I don't really care about where we actually go or

what we do I mean not McDonald's but like just any old sit-down meal and it comes to what like 20 30 quid each which I know so you don't mind splitting so I'm going to come on to this okay my rule that I've shared in the podcast really not rule but my outlook on the matter is if I go on a date and I like the guy and he likes me and I feel like I want to see him again it would mean a lot to me and be a green flag if he offered to pay for it that would make me feel like that he really likes me I'd feel wanted valued and I would accept his offer to pay because I want to see him again you know I mean sure if I'm on a day date and he offers to pay and I don't want to see him again, then I insist on splitting it. Yeah, yeah, it's fair. That's true. Yeah, yeah, because I feel like I don't need a free dinner from him. When he pays, it's not about getting a free dinner. It's about the gesture. Yeah. It's the gesture. So I don't care about being taken out to Hakasan. I've not been there before. I don't care. I can go to any old restaurant, bar, whatever we're doing for the first

date and him. Can I ask, so sorry for cutting you off, but can I ask, how do you communicate that to the men that may be trying to, you know, pursue you? You don't because it's in someone's nature. So I don't want to tell anyone what to do. People should be them. So that's also a sign of if we're aligned, really, I feel like hopefully I'll be aligned to people that want to offer to pay to get this mill. I hear what you're saying. I think this is probably the one part where I probably hard disagree. So this is a concept that I like called giving the keys to the castle. And I think this is a huge thing why data, again, sorry, not to point the finger at you. But I think loads of people do this in different ways. It's like we, we know what connection feels like. We know the things that would make us feel valued. And sometimes we feel like, okay, compatibility is

someone that will stumble along and maybe not necessarily, we don't have to communicate that. But I feel like ultimately what you said is completely true. Let people be themselves and let them see how they naturally react. And I feel like people will naturally do that over time. Don't get me wrong, there are some people that will take information that you give them and use it to their advantage. But those types of people can only keep that up for so long. You know, I think if I know I have a certain need or request or boundary. I lay them out. So I've given the keys to the person and then it's up to them as their own autonomous being to decide whether they actually want to now meet me where I've told them that. Yeah. In general, I agree with that. Like, for instance,

I've communicated to guys that, for instance, I would like them to book the time and place at a meeting for instance. I don't mind saying that. And again, they would do that or they don't. If they don't do that. I don't see you. You know, it's quite simple. But when it comes to the actual paying of the date, because the whole point of it that matters to me is the gesture that means I can't tell them that I want them to pay. Do you know what I mean? Because then it wouldn't be real. I wouldn't know if they actually want to do that or they're just doing it because I told them to. And also, I don't care. The paying thing is not the biggest, it's not a deal breaker for me. It's just something. It's a preference.

hmm I may I hear what you're saying yeah I do think though based of what you said it may actually be more of a deal-breaking than you said because if a guy comes along and he doesn't do that you've probably already mentally written him off you know so he may not get another chance to then actually show you his other qualities that you may care more about well the thing is hopefully over the course of the whole day let's say I spent two to three out at someone I'll kind of know if I want to see them again or not so the paying at the end isn't the like the big be all end all in it

but there's been occasions where I said let me split this and it's been a bit of an it it might be guys that I've I've been a bit like oh will I see them again will I not and then they said that and it's been like a nail in the coffin or if I've been like shall I see them shall I not and if I'm just not sure then I'm be like let's just this and like let's I feel like you should be sure

about seeing someone again and it's not obviously there's certain things like if you're in a pub like maybe we'll do rounds and whatever and that's fine this is the thing I think a lot of guys don't get or they say you mentioned about the amount of money it's not about the money or the amount of money for me I'm sure there are someone out there about that you say they like to go out to fancy restaurants yeah fantastic but that that's not what dating is about for me is about connection and I actually feel a bit uncomfortable if I went to a really fancy restaurant for a first date unless the guy was super rich and that was super in his means and like that was nothing to him fine but for the most part something not as low chemicals not as high kizakasan just

something in the middle would be a great first day option for me I agree I guess just putting a bit of my finance, YouTuber hat on. And I think I also spoke about this with a bunch of people on the day. It's, I really like to think of the concept of the dating pool. Now, we're all obviously individuals, but we live in a collective society. You know, we have people around us that, you know, are in our actions, whether we think it's like on a single basis or not, still impacts other people. And I feel like if you have those ideas and approaches to dating this,

completely fine. I think that's actually really good and healthy. Unfortunately, as a guy, you're going to have to go through a lot of numbers. So for every one woman, like yourself, there's a lot of others that, unfortunately, in this time and age, do tie, you know, the kind of place or the amount of money that we spend to that. So I really like the whole concept of, like, dropping the handkerchief. You know, so it's like women, it's women's way of putting their foot forward in the terms of they create an opportunity for the guy, to then come in. So for example, now, just obviously understanding the financial state of the world, loads of people are struggling. And especially in London, unfortunately, it's also men. And then to go

into them like more like specific demographics, black men are also kind of, you know, not doing as well as their like female counterparts. So if that is understood, but I don't know, we're not trying in tiny ways to kind of breach that gap. So just for example, now, do you know, these are some of the places I'd like to go, you know, just to, you're not directly like telling him what to do, but you've now at least made it easier and it's like budget-friendly places. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. That's a really good shout actually. And that has changed my perspective a little bit because I'm very much like, I would appreciate it if the guy could like book the first date. But then I'm presuming it, he's booking it based on what is within his price

range, do you know what I mean? Rather than me suggesting something. Yeah, I would say now again, especially the way that I date, it's maybe a bit different, but I would say a good rule of thumb is whatever price rate, kind of times it by five because maybe in that month, the guy is trying to plan five other date. So if there's five other people or four other people that he has to lead with, then kind of think about it like that. And then, That's why even when some of my female friends were getting very excited about certain men inviting them to like very high-end places on the first date, I'm like, this person has the means to do it for at least five other women. So don't take it as like, this is special for you. He's just

able to do that. That's how guys typically go about things. It's like, no, we find a method, then we do that again and again until it works most of the time. Or we refine that. That's just kind of how it is. Yeah. And I think, It's interesting. Obviously, if we're taking the view that there might still just be, I don't know, would you say there's an expectation for men to pay on the first day? Or is it expectation 50-50 these days? Like, I don't know what you're- There's 1,000% an expectation for the guys to pay. All you have to do is go to any restaurant and then see who the waiter or waitress comes to. It's always going to be the guy. That's a good point. Well, sometimes they put it in the middle, but that is a good point, yeah. It's weird. isn't it? So which leads me into when a guy says something, split it, then it feels more friendly than dating. Like I think dating is with someone paying for it. And I think that's a shame because just like we have our own, you know, preferences when it comes to so many different types

of things, people, you don't know how someone's been brought up. You don't know their personal relationship with money. So I think automatically equating that to friendship when ultimately both people have dedicated part of their time to get to know each of other in that environment. I think having some of those conversations ahead of time, it's like, how do you think about money? What is your expectation around this? And I want you, before you even say yours, because you want their honest take and be like, you know, whatever it is, I want to hear you because I'm connected to you and I want to hear your honest opinion. And then just, yeah, see what they say. And then I think that avoids that kind of

awkward feeling at that point in time. Because like even on the counter side of that, Like, even though I've had women pay for me on first dates or just pay for things in general for me, it's, I don't like the idea of me paying and then a woman now feels somewhat indebted to me for anything. Like, if I pay, it's not because I'm trying to do anything. It's just like, cool, this is a fun thing that I just wanted, I wanted you to enjoy this experience. Yeah, but this is why Kate, this is the beauty of it. And this is why the man should always offer to pay because the lady can then either say, thank you so much. really kind or no, I insist we split this. So by that, you've not forced anything and you've still given her the option of saying it. And I do believe that the man should pay for the first

date. And I do believe that the man should choose a location that he's happy to pay for. That's my take on it. So this is why I try my best to detach the financial aspect of dating. What are we both therefore, we're there to connect. All the external stuff doesn't matter. That's why, honestly, if a woman wants to pay for me on the first date, amazing. I don't see that any kind of way. If she wants me to pay, as long as she doesn't come along with an element of entitlement, then it's completely fine. If, you know, like, typically you go out to, you reach out to pay and then they'll be like, oh no, or they'll at least bring out their wallet like they're going to pay. There's something to, yeah, exactly. But don't do that.

like, oh, I forgot my wallet or that kind of stuff. I've never personally had that happen to me, but it just shows an element of disregard for my time. And we also have to acknowledge that there are bad actors in the field that do ruin it for everyone. So those, in this instance, let's just say man or woman, that will use people for first dates for food, you know? That's wild. The concept of that blow mine, food, get like a Tesco meal deal that's £3.50 or whatever. Like, I'm not going on dates to get food.

That's absolutely... Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that are. And I had emphasis on had a very close friend for a long time. And she taught me so much about specific types of guys. She would accidentally show me like, this guy's just bought my groceries for the week.

This guy's going to do this. And I'll just be like, oh, my God. Well, she's a sprinkle. That's her... Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And, you know, what works for those people, works for them. But I do just feel like there was a bit of an unethical tone to it, especially when ultimately she knew what the guys wanted she's not going to give, you know, but she's presenting herself in a type of way to keep them there. And look, for every woman version of this is a male version as well. So I'm not the kind of person that plays the side games.

were both just as bad as each other. But I think when you have more insight to that, we just kind of come back down to like, you know, now we're all just people and like, what is the main focus here? Yeah, that's interesting because I don't think that is unethical necessarily. Like, they bought her groceries because they wanted to buy her grocery. She wasn't forcing them to buy her groceries. But this is what I'm talking about. That's not true. And guy, Ed, not anyone that's listening to that, if you've got a brother, like, we do need to fight against this narrative. People do not do.

things for other people just for the sake of it, especially when it comes to dating. They're doing it because they want to get something. So for example, now, if those men were told from the get-go, there's no kind of sexual activity that's going to happen at all. At least 95% of them will drop off. So they're not just doing it because they just want to or they just have it. They're doing it because either, maybe it's not even sexual. Maybe it's like they're lonely and the validation that they're getting through talking to her.

There's something, there's some kind of exchange. of exchange. It's been solved. If they're lonely and getting validations talking for it, then they've got what they wanted, that the equilibrium is sorted there. If that is the case, then sure, that is completely fine. But as a man myself who like really goes out of my way to be open and honest about this

and talk to lots of men about this on a serious basis, it's like that doesn't seem to be the case for most guys, you know? It's like, sure, there are some people that are extremely lonely. Like, look at the rise of only fans, you know, it's like, and there's a lot of users there. So likelihood is that we know loads of people in our personal life that, you know, interact with these women. And it's, it's normally just like the messaging thing or what's kind of stuff. But it's, I don't know.

I feel like having that adult conversation is like, what are we both looking for here? Are we actually, you know, meeting each other's needs? And if we're not, then, you know, there's so many other people out there. It's like there doesn't need to be this ambiguity towards what I'm. dynamic is like. I agree with you on the ambiguity point and to illustrate that I'm going to give you the reverse example. Okay. Which is a man dating a woman saying he really likes her, he really wants a relationship, he's really interested in her and he really seems going well. and then only

willing sex okay and then how can I say it? It's still very round in the sprinkle, sprinkle movement women are using men for money. The I don't even want to call it fuck boy movement or the six matronship movement men are using women for

sex. Sure. So it's a it's a two-way street is what I'm trying to say there's a we're spiraling out of control here into a conversation about dating culture and kind of how it's not in a good place right now. Yeah, I think what you were going to do, you can correct me if I'm wrong,

is trying to give like a male equivalent. So I guess that would be like a guy just giving these kind of affirmations that he wants to be in this kind of place with this woman and he's only doing things that equate to kind of, you know, fuck boy kind of. Yeah. He never wanted a relationship. He only wanted sex. Like how you're an example, the girl only wanted groceries or money.

She wanted to have sex with these guys. She was using them just to get the groceries, the money. Men can use women to own sex and to never get the things that they wanted. And this is why everyone needs to raise their levels of discernment. It's like, for me, oh, I need to be careful. I say this. Like, I have started paying less attention to what people say and a lot more attention to what people do. Yeah. Because people can say anything, but they can't do anything. You know, so judging them and seeing the growth of what they are doing to me, for me and what we're doing for each other based off of those is what I kind of then dictate, okay, when they say certain

thing, how much is this correlated to the wars their actions? Do you know what I mean? So what I would tell any of my female friends that were in that kind of situation, it's like, cool, all I hear is Yap. What is he done? You know, I'll be very, I have to be very direct with my female friends because especially in these situations and especially when it comes to like actually liking people, we, there's so many red flags that we overlook. So sometimes being very direct, but what has he actually done? And, you know, being able to decipher from there. then cross-referenced that with their words, you'll be able to see. And also it's a time element thing.

It's like, okay, and I think you had an episode on this as well, it's like, how long has it been and you haven't actually, you know, made things official? Have you been going out for six months? You've just been doing all these kind of boyfriend girlfriend and activities. He's enjoying everything, but there's no official label. You know, you need to be able to like breaches and have these conversations. Like I personally like to have these very, very early on. So I know, it's like, well, I was raised too well than to

waste women's time. But, you know, there are some wolf and sheep's clothing out there that will happily, you know, go about it that way. So, yeah. And I'll say to that, it's like, again, one of the best things you could also do is have genuine platonic friends of the opposite sex. Because we all have our blind spots, but women typically know other women. Guys, we know other guys. So if you show these interactions to, you know, your, like, yeah, counterparts, you'll be able to decipher a lot. Yeah, that's that's so for real. I am going to put something on Instagram.

I'm going to put a poll up and I'm going to put a poll for the episode as well saying who should pay on the first date. And I'm going to, I'll, we'll see the reactions and we'll find out what the people think as well. But I guess we've had a little debate and discussion on that topic, which has been 100%. But just to put like the last little note on that, for me as someone that, has gone out with, I don't know how many first dates I've been on. I generally do not know. Are you in the 100 Club? I am well, well past that. Okay. I feel so much better about myself now. I have met a few people out there in the 100 Club as well, but some people, it's, oh, I've been my childhood sweetheart since I was 16 away. I love that. That's lovely. Yeah, so then the 100

seems crazy to, you know, those kind of people. But thank you. I'm glad I've met someone else in the 100 Club and thank you for coming on the podcast. No problem. But yeah, just going back to that, I think as a guy, and this is probably what some of your women listeners want to know, it's like, do I feel differently about a woman that offers to split and she's still romantically interested in me? It's like ultimately, I personally judge it based off of the woman's relationship with money, you know, especially as a finance guy, again, I have no problem spending money on women or even paying for the first date as long as it doesn't come up with any entitlement. So, for example, now, if I choose a, like you've just said, a normal place, let's say TGI Fridays, maybe that is a bit too low, maybe, well, let's just say, there, and they like that place.

I have no idea. Or Frankie and Benny's, one of them. Yeah, let's say like Pizza Express. Everyone. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Pizza Express. And so, like, this actually happened not too long ago. I sent a place like that. And where was it? I love that place. In fact, oh, my goodness it's yeah the name escapes me regardless i sent this place to this woman and she was like oh i don't really like those kind of places and said nothing else and that's fine for you i'll just not go and a date with her after that i didn't i'll respond to that like oh let's say i've got a date dietary requirement i don't but let's say i did and i was like oh i can't eat blah blah food how about this restaurant you know that's how you're exactly exactly Exactly. And it's kind of the same thing with like people that are overly busy. Like if someone just tells you, oh, sorry, I can't do that day, then they're not interested. Someone that's actually interested in you would say, okay, I'm busy here. What about this day? Just the same way how I expected, I think a more friendly response to what I said will be like, okay, I don't really like this place, but there are other options that are a bit more attuned to my taste, you know, and then I think I would have actually cared about, you know, pursuing that a bit more. But regardless, if.

she did then come back and it was a lot more of a higher end choice list because, you know, we can tell that kind of person, I'm not sure whether I would necessarily feel the same way about paying for the first day because you've set forward, even if I could afford it, you've set forward like a higher standard. And from my perspective, then this is the part that can get a bit controversial. It's like, I don't want to, I don't want to bring up the topic but it's like at this point it's very low investment on both sides we've not really done anything for each other so it's like you've now brought up a higher requirement and i don't know what i'm getting back and there's a guy that has dated many other women that are happy to pay for

those higher end places for me it's kind of like well why unless there's something else that has happened in that interaction that i really want to specifically take you there you know so i I think everyone benefits from asking themselves what do I bring to this interaction? Because if, and move away from the external, whatever, you're pretty, you have muscles, that's amazing. Somebody else has that better than you. What connective things is this person interested in that you've displayed that would make them actually want to see you on a long-term basis?

And if you haven't shown that yet, I think asking for more high-end things from the get-go, is why some guys will be a bit nervous about even wanting to take these types of people out. Does that make sense or have I gone a bit off? No, that makes complete sense, which is why it's like, like I say, I can't speak for other women, whatever, that want to go to my own restaurants. But I say from my perspective, I wouldn't suggest that because it's not about the money. It's exactly what you said. It's about forming a connection.

So you just want to be in somewhere that's like, you know, quietish, not too noisy, where you can have a good conversation with someone, you know. And if you're meeting at dinner time, I think it's good to get a meal because the risk of if you just go for drinks, you could get too drunk. So I do think it's, you know, probably a good idea to have a meal. But I don't mind going for drinks for a first date as well. But then I think I do, my preference is to go to like serves food so that you could order some snacks, like if you wanted to, like that thing.

But anyway, that's by the buy. The point is, obviously, in the scenario you've described, yeah, the lady has suggested a more expensive first date. Therefore, actually, I would say that you probably should split it because she has said, I would like to eat here. Therefore, implying that I would like to pay here. I agree. My dating experience, the man suggests where to me and I say yes. So I'm assuming that he's happy. That makes sense, yeah.

If he has gone out of his way to choose this place, then he should be able to flip the bill. Right. But I think a lot of the time, if, again, a lot of my female friends had literally lists, which they were slowly ticking off of places. Yeah, I'm being so serious. But all the your listeners, my jaw dropped. That's outrageous. Yeah.

Again, I've seen it all. That's probably what makes me a bit more cautious. But again, it's not about what. It's the general energy that you bring to the interaction. I think if you're generally authentic self, a lot of these places, it's like, to some of my friends, I'm like, do you own stock in these businesses? It's like, why are you so invested in these people taking you here or like, you know, advertising this place?

It's like, ultimately, I think if most people had a place, you know, even offering to, obviously, maybe not on the first interaction, but like cooking for someone. You know, I think that's so sweet, that's so romantic, or you're cooking together, in fact. I think that's a really nice thing. But yeah, personally, dinner dates, I like to kind of go towards activity dates nowadays. I think it's a lot more interact and I get to see like other aspects of people's character. Yeah, I like activity dates, but probably for a bit later wrong. I think the very first date, I feel like I need to have a really good conversation.

And depending what activity we're doing, it can be hard to like get into like a really good, you know, flowing conversation because we're doing activity. Sure. But I like an activity day as well, for sure. But anyway, I think we have literally, we've put the world to write on this topic. Do we have maybe not 100%, but that's okay. And this is why I think it's good for listeners to hear different perspectives on this topic. And obviously, listeners, I'd love to hear what you think.

So do write to help us write on Instagram and do interact with the poll that I'm going to to put out on who should pay for the first date. I didn't want to bring up something else is what we talked about at dinner actually as well at the dating event before about this. I don't even know how to introduce it or get into it like the provider mindset and because this is not about dating per se in terms of going on dates. It's more about being in a relationship. Yeah, about qualities that you're looking for in a part.

And yeah, we had a chat about some people, some women want to find a man that is a provider, quote on quote, meaning, I suppose that he will take care of them financially and she might not work. I mean, a chat is about either the whole soft girl aesthetic, which is obviously rising and that they glamorise or looking up to. the, it's aspirational to not work and to be taken care of by a man. And you asked me direct, what, what do you think about that? And I said, yeah, I don't think it's wise. It's not something I aspire to. And I think that, yeah, don't rely on a man for money or food or nothing. With the man paying on the first date, that's about the gesture for me.

It's not because I can't afford to buy my own food. Sure. If you can't afford to buy your own food, I think don't go on date. You've got big issues in your life right now. And I think, yeah, I want to have my own money for sure. I think that makes a lot of sense. And I think, yeah, like you said, we kind of touched on this topic when someone talked about, yeah, the whole soft girl kind of era.

Like, what does that actually mean? What does it look like to actually be in a dynamic where a guy is just fully providing for you because from my perspective as I have had some aunties and uncles that have been in that dynamic yeah one let's be real with ourselves that in 2026 if we we all remember COVID pretty vividly it's like staying home and doing absolutely nothing it's I don't know how driven you would be like but again everyone is different I don't know how well what kind of life for that really entails unless like you're obviously filling it up about things, I think it's know what most people don't like the world of work, right? So having someone

come along that sweeps you off your feet that robs or takes away that burden, that's very nice on paper. I think the reality is like very few people often will be able to do that and even in instances that they do. How are you progressing your overall life in that instance, say now you break up? You know, have you now set yourself back? Like, again, I do know someone now that has taken a hiatus from their own work now to go traveling with their boyfriend in LA, you know, and you know, if it works for them, it works for them. That's amazing. But I think whenever you create these dynamics where there's huge shifts in power, you know, I think in my mind it's a recipe for disaster if you haven't really vetted the right person, you know, because just like I was saying before,

and I will say again, men do not do things out of the sadness of their heart. You know, a lot of those gestures are made with the idea that it's like a role-based thing. You know, I'm playing my role. So whatever role that guy thinks of is what he wants you to do. And it's not just sitting at home and looking pretty. It's probably going to be some kind of house care and then other obligations, you know, that you guys will talk about. And if you don't like that, like, it's, if you're putting yourself in a bit of a weird position where you may not actually have that much negotiation. negotiating power. Whereas with what you've said, you know, if it's more like an equal thing,

you both make your own money and now you come together actually speaking about finances, that to me, even just thinking about that, I'm like, yeah, that's the kind of woman that I wants, like someone that actually, you know, we can speak about finance to call, babe, how much do you make, how much you make, where should we allocate our funds, how much are we going to put away investments, like what are we building towards together? I think having that kind of partner, I think is something that I personally would like more. But look, I come from Nigeria and that maybe are some Nigerian men that want that kind of traditional kind of, you know, dynamic. But I think just realize it comes to things.

And if you don't come, if you don't have those conversations, I think you are setting yourself up for a bit of a strange time. Absolutely. And yeah, I hear what you're saying. Like talking about finances and being transparent about it is super important. I think finances is a lot of reason where people split up. It's one of the big reasons for divorce, actually. It comes down to money and it comes down to a mismatch on your relationship with money. And I know, like, you can go on a marriage course.

You know, a lot of churches when you get married, you go on a marriage course beforehand. And a big part of marriage course is talking about money. That is one of the big ones. And it's the conversation that couples don't have. Money is such a taboo. And that's why I think recording this episode talking about money is really cool. it is the unspoken thing. I think in British culture,

they're very uncomfortable about talking about money and how much we earn and da-da-da. It's a really big taboo here. And when you are getting to that point where you're merging your life with someone or before you get to the point of merging your life of someone, you need to have proper chats about money because it's the biggest,

it can be a real big cause of arguments and of breaking up. 100%. I'm going to tell a personal story. we have time for it, but based on this exact same thing. So this isn't my second relationship, right? And I'm very comfortable to share this. But it'll be interesting to see if any listeners have had like a similar experience. Because I also had, I told my wider family about this enough wider family group chat just to hear my auntie's opinions on like, with this whole idea that men should be the providers, did I do the right

thing? So ultimately, I was in like a four-year relationship with this woman, but at this point it had been like a year and a bit and I could kind of gauge the way that they were spending money and it was it was a lot like they would be very quickly to bring it they'll be very quick to bring out their car and all this kind of stuff long story short turns out they had debt and they had a lot of it and especially being very well-versed in finance any amount of debt that you well most amounts of debt that you have it can be dealt with. You just need to make a plan. So I think she felt a lot of shame, guilt around telling me, but I was like, you know, babe, like, you know, we're in this together. It's

completely fine. You know, just let me know the amount and then that we'll work together to actually solve this. So she eventually told me it was around like 40K worth of debt. 40K. 40K worth of debt. Yeah, yeah, insane. So I was like, okay, cool. So we put a spreadsheet together and, And yeah, started to kind of work out how she would start to tackle this. Ultimately, because of the amount it was, she wasn't really able to keep up with the payments. And at this time, I think this was just after COVID again, I'd done my investing channel. I'd been investing for myself for a long time. And I had about 40K worth of stock, which in that mindset, again, when you are really locked in with someone,

you don't really think about anything else like we are together we are a joint unit and i'm just like our money or your money is my money my money is like we're joint so this debt in a kind of way i viewed it as my own as well and i could see how much it brought this woman down that i was with and because i'd always had the higher paying job when it came to the places that we were renting i always paid like a higher proportion of the rent because i was just like that's what i should do right and then when it came to this and i can see that she wasn't being able to pay it off and it was just going to grow i got to the point where i started to sell my stock to help pay off her debt, eventually getting to the point where that 40K

worth of stock went to zero because I literally, yeah, I used all of it to help pay off her debt, as well as like, obviously, we moved to a house at this point in time, like furniture together. No, so this is a house that we're renting, but moving is expensive, especially unfurnished. So when I see Dunelm and IKEA, I get a bit of like PTSD because, you know, yeah, so there's a lot of stuff that I did. And obviously, eventually we broke up. And, you know, not that I didn't do that at the time with the idea of, okay, cool, this person owes me. But you can't buy gratitude either. And the reality is when it comes to loads of things like that, people typically feel more guilt and shame rather than like, oh, this is something that this person helped me with. So then again, I, and at this point, I was pretty disconnected with like my main family. and stuff like that. So there's loads of choices I made back then now that I wouldn't make now. But whenever I tell this story to family members, it's interesting to me what they said. Like one of my eldest aunties was like, okay, you made the right choice, but with the wrong

person. And I think that's ridiculous. Like to me now, when it comes to, I think you still need, that's why having these conversations early on is very important, you know, understand a situation that you're in. I, maybe now I might run away from someone that. has debt, but depending on the plan that they had, right? And especially I know the statistics, most people in the UK have debt, like between 1 to 5K, most people can't even live between like an actual emergency. Most people don't even have a grand saved in their bank accounts. So I think when people are actually more honest and aren't embarrassed, I think it just helps people actually just do what they need to do. But ultimately, I think, how I think now is that

that was more of a husband kind of responsibility that I was doing at that point in time. time. And yeah, I really don't think I should have. Obviously, it's easy to send and done because when you are with that person and you're seeing them kind of suffer through this, it's obviously heartbreaking and you want to help, but it's just one of those things. This is another reason why these conversations should be had a lot early on. And, you know, that's one of the main reasons why I took such a long break from even creating my content that I did because it's like, I would show my portfolio every single month, you know, but now I was like, oh, it's got I slowly started building

it back up. So it's fine. And I'm very happy to share the story. Because I think I'm not the only one that's gone through things like this. You know, I think there's loads of our people that have some kind of financial implication that's tied into their relationship. And, you know, if you don't have older brothers or siblings or, you know, family members that you look up to, you know, you're going to look to the internet to see whether people have had some of the stories. But, yeah, ultimately, yeah, just talking about these. So I know I've yapped for a bit. Oh my God. Thank you for sharing that story. and your reflections on it as well as you look back on it.

I think a lot of people can relate to that. Like, I know friends that have, like, given money to pay off their partner's debt. I mean, not to the tune of 40K. But still, I think it is super common. And again, if anyone has stories, they want to share. Very happy to make you anonymous and to share those on the podcast. Because it is such a big topic when it comes to dating and relationships. and, yeah, debt, money, hidden debt, it's a big thing.

And that whole thing as well about like, obviously, when you're married, then your finances are literally linked. Yeah. Whereas when your relationship, obviously, it depends on your relationship, how your finances are linked, but you and your partner at that time, I'm assuming you obviously felt like a team, you love for her, you care for her. you have the means to help her you wanted to help her but then now that

that also came at a huge loss cost a lot of investments that you worked a long time for and unfortunately you know I really try I'm generally a reflective person I try not to let the scars of my past like dictate how I'm going to interact in the future but it not just that instance there's

other instances as well that have ultimately created this kind of, and I don't think it's a bad thing. It's like, what am I getting out of this scenario? And if it's not clear to me, then it's fine to just spend time by myself. So at this point, the way that I date, you know, I have women that I interact with every now and again that I'm very open and honest with them. But when it comes to potentially wanting to go to something long term again, and like I know the ups and downs of being single, and I know the ups and the terms of being a good relationship. And I just feel like I have a lot more in control when I'm single, you know, and this is the sad truth for me and many other guys I've heard. It's ideally you want someone that you grow with, you know,

it's like that you're this team and you know, you break through these instances and that you come through the other side. But I feel like I'm on the other side. And I'm only growing. and I've done most of that by myself. And as someone that has dated and been on these apps for a long time, I see a pretty sizable difference between the attention I'm getting now and the attention that I got before. Not saying that I didn't get any attention before, but women have a very good eye for measures of success, right, in one way or another.

And like, when I broke up for my last girlfriend, that's actually a conversation that we heard. It's like I'm actually kind of worried about the future of my dating because it's like connection is a huge thing to me and I don't want to be the kind of guy where people are interacting with me for the external or what they want me to be rather than what I am. Do you know what I mean? So this is why I'm very, very particular about a woman's attitude towards finances and money, especially when it comes to realms of dating and the early interactions. That's why firstly for me, when a woman's a lot more calm or doesn't

have the same kind of materialistic mindsets, I'm drawn a lot more to them and Funnily enough, those are the ones that I actually want to spend a lot more money on because I just don't care. You know what I mean? I feel like this is like an honest, like carefree interaction rather than someone's like mentally, you know, oh, he hasn't met my checklist. He hasn't done this for me. And, you know, I think that's how I approach it now. Yeah. And like, I'll offer the same advice you offered to me.

It's about checking in, you know, we were navigating the, do they really like me? Is it genuine? in to digital exactly the same as what you said to me, getting advice from friends, female friends and taking time and looking at their actions to decipher what their true intentions are. Yeah, no, that's true. But I'm also, again, I'm very direct, very direct to people, which honestly, I'm not sure how much more time we have, but I think it's, it's definitely benefited me in the world of dating because unfortunately, I think there are a lot of guys now that want a certain thing and realize it's a lot

easier to get that by not being as upfront. And that's just only unfortunate truth. It's like, when even, if I have instances where I just want to just have fun, just, I'm very direct. This is, well, obviously, in a way that's still appetizing to who I'm trying to sell it to. Do you know what I mean, but I don't be around the bush. And I think women really appreciate that honesty and just like not wasting their time. No, I hear you. Thanks for sharing your reflections on that and it's cool. We love being open and honest when it comes to money, when it comes to dating attentions, everything is the key. Oh, okay. On that note then, how would you feel about a guy being open about what he earns? Like, how would that make you feel?

Interesting. Well, in what context? As in what on the first date, he tells me, this is his salary? Yeah, this is my take-home pay. I would find that odd, because in what context is this coming up? So let's say now, someone like me that's like, okay, I like to be very open, honest and direct. And if this is like a serious interaction, I think maybe, let's say, in the context where I've told you my past dating interactions and I'm like, because of that, I like to be quite. open and honest. So it's like, and then I just slip it in. I make X amount. And yeah, that enables me to like, you know, invest, do this. And these are my goals. I'm saving up towards like my first investment property. You know, how would that make you feel? In the instance that it was lower

than what you earn and then in the instance, it was higher. I don't know, you know, because I think it is good to share your salary with your partner. But notice there, I'm saying partner. I think that conversation would come a bit later on. I don't know. I think this actually comes down to British culture. My views on this mainly. Like, even friends, culturally, we don't talk about money in the UK. It's seen as brash. It's seen as, you know, to go into the actual numbers per se. So with a partner, because I'm serious with them, I mean, in relationship, then we're going to talk about money because, you know, our lives are, let's say even living separately but it's still that kind of thing of like we're a team and I would share

everything with my partner you know about my life but it's weird I think sharing your actual salary exact number in the UK is seen as a bit taboo to share that with people in general so let me tell you something about women we are detectives we have special skills so chatting to a guy oh what do you do i'm the little quick google i've got a ballpark range okay so i don't need to know the exact salary of what a guy earns he tells me his job i've got a rough idea of my head rastore is amazing of what that is yeah shout out to Yeah, my reaction when it's lower than what I earn, I think, okay, what are their qualities as a person? Are they someone that I want to keep seeing?

What are their goals in life? Are they going to be at this salary forever? Or are they looking to go to a higher salary like one day? And also like, yeah, are they doing a job that is really like mission led, really like giving back to the community? And it's really like, that's their passion and that's why they're doing it. that also makes a difference to me as well. And then versus it's a guy who earns, like, more than I earn. And again, like more in general does not impress me.

If it's like a lot more, again, it still comes down to their quality and their character. But the more money in life that you have, it's like fund tokens. Like life is equal. I agree. More money. That's the rule. It is you have more opportunities. you can just do things that are burdens in life, cooking, cleaning, you pay for that, you can't sort of that.

So it is appealing, but it still comes down to, if I like them as personal or not. I'm not going to be with someone I don't like, just because they've got money. Okay. So I think I want to ask you the other spicy question I asked all my aunties. And just being very open. And speaking of Glass Door, I feel like Hinge has become the new LinkedIn for me. I don't know what it is. Hinge has clearly blessed me.

Like literally, before we started this podcast, I literally matched with this woman that is a senior director and AI company. Again, Hinge is throwing me like surgeons, doctors, investment bankers, all this kind of stuff. But I was having a genuine... It knows what you want. I guess so. I promise I do not have a type. but, look, I like women that like me.

That is my type. But I was having this conversation with my aunties and I was like, okay, if I do get to the point of saying that I want to take someone seriously, if I have, and this is the net, so even anyone listening, you're hearing the negatives of our day in culture. Just listen to what I'm about to say, right, but I'm still going to be open about it. As I have so many options coming my way, like literally from like all these different types of jobs, what type of woman should I? focus on. And I try to ask my aunties from your perspective, because I know money is such an important thing. Does it make sense for me? I'm a guy that's doing pretty well for myself, but I know that most women typically want a guy that's either on their level or doing slightly above them. So does it make sense for me now to get with someone that is doing much better than

me? Again, I am not one of those guys because I know there's a lot of talk about, okay, a woman doing better. It's intimidating for me. I love that. that. I generally do. But if she looks at me differently now because I'm not meeting her bare minimum and that causes bits of disrespect, then who's going to like that? Do you know what I mean? And from an investment perspective, I want to be with someone that ursable body because I like, cool. Like, let's actually, I'm such a huge nerd when it comes to finances. So that that would be really cool, but if it comes, if it's just like a quite, I don't want to say, if it's a common thing that loads of women want a partner that's like at their level,

level or more, then I was like, cool, then does it make sense for me to then focus on people with more relatively normal jobs? What is your take with what I've just said? As in, like, what should you do? What do you think I should do? Well, I think similar to what I said, it ultimately does come down to connecting with them and that person could be AI director or they could be a nurse, do you know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't actually make the decision based on finances at all, I would be having the same kind of chats on Hinge with everyone, seeing where the banter is, where the connection is, taking them for a date and going from there. If the AI director lady who earns more than you doesn't want to go on a date with you

because she's worried about who earns more, she won't go on a date with you. Oh, yeah. Like, don't get me wrong. I know that I bring so many other qualities apart from just finances. So that that's not a worry for me. But it's in like what we were talking about, in the long term, this whole provider mentality, if loads of women want that soft life. But because these women are naturally more elevated themselves, the kind of soft life that they are thinking is very different to the soft life. And a quote unquote more normalized like career path would have. does that make sense? So then if that is what women today are looking for, what makes more sense for me to focus on? I don't think lots of women do want a soft life. I'm just saying it's an emerging trend. I don't actually think it's a majority. I'm just saying it's something I keep seeing on social media, the glamorization of this soft life. And I feel like you've got the lady who's a director. She doesn't want a soft life, clearly. She is a lady who wants to have her financial independence and, you know, enjoys her career and enjoys her work. So I think

you're all right, basically, as what I'm trying to say, with either way, no matter what salary is of the lady you're dating. Yes, there's a dynamic and there's a power dynamic when money is involved. Money is power. So right, we said about the relationship where the man earns a lot, lady doesn't earn at all, soft life. Yes. There's a power dynamic there, which is why I advise women to not be in a situation where you don't have your own finances. Yeah, my answer to that question might not be that satisfying to you. Because what I'm basically saying is don't think about it too much. I would chase the connection above everything.

I know we said finances are important, obviously, because they can cause friction, you know, in a partnership. But initially, go for the connection. He makes you laugh. excited. I completely agree and thank you so much for that. I think this is again one of the negatives of being so in the field when it comes to dating because after a while I do kind of think about things in terms of like a collection of data. When I'm one-on-one with someone, I'm focusing on on one-on-one interaction. But before I've met this kind of person, unfortunately there's an element of like, okay, I have been on quite a few dates with women that are similar to this,

and that is an assumption, right, of course. And like, I've had some of the most interesting first messages like, okay, what country are you taking me on the first date? You know, I've been, yeah. Ladies, don't go to a strange, to a foreign country of a strange man. You don't even know from a dating app. I agree. I think it's a terrible. idea. Despite that, did I go to Germany to meet someone? Yes, I did. And I had an amazing time. But we, that's fine. I had one of the episodes of the podcast, help he flew to, no, he flew to London to see me. I met someone outside, but let me tell you, we met in person already. And then he flew to London. I'm not traveling to go on a holiday with a strange man that I don't know.

Yeah, clearly my sense of self-preservation is very different. But no, we had had like conversations and like, yeah, maybe there was just a certain element of, like, to be fair, like this person worked in hotel management. So they're like, they're going to give me 85% off the Marriott's Day. So I'm like, okay, cool. This person's doing this. I have some idea. We obviously did some video calls and yeah. But yeah, I still wouldn't recommend many people to do that.

And I think the whole concept of flying out is not very sensible. But regardless, people do it. Yeah. fun every now and then. But oh my gosh, Kay, we have to, we'll hear the full story time of that another time. We need to get you back on the podcast. I think, obviously, we've got a lot more dating stories to talk about. We need you to get you back on to answer some dilemmas. We won't do any today, but I'm going to say to listeners, please, if you've got any money dating dilemmas, send them in. I will collate them and then I'll invite Kay back for a future

episode where we can answer your money, date and dilemmas. So please do write in, help I swipe dry at gmail.com, or help I swipe right on Instagram. I am going to bring today's episode to a close now because we have been chatting away. It's been great. Thank you so much, Kay, for coming on the podcast. Thanks for listening, everyone. And I'll see you next Sunday.