Her Discussions by Dr Faye - 60 Minutes Of Brutal Truths Every PEOPLE PLEASER Need To Learn

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

What would happen if you learned to say no?In today’s episode, we’re joined by award-winning therapist Paula Williams, who has over 25 years of clinical experience working across trauma, addiction, EMDR, generational healing and identity reconstruction.We explore what’s actually happening in the body when you feel overwhelmed or unable to truly switch off, even when nothing is wrong on the surface.What you’ll learn:🧘‍♀️ a 30s reset for when your body feels overwhelmed🤍 3 boundaries every chronic people pleaser needs to learn😬 why ambitious women struggle to relax without guilt💆‍♀️ how even 1 massage a month can change your nervous system📺 the reason watching Netflix leaves you feeling tired instead of restedResources & links mentioned:Paula’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/yourheart_therapist/?hl=enLinks to subscribe / follow:Apple Podcasts: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/her-discussions-by-dr-faye/id1835829612⁠Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/5viLYizHD4Zy6J42iqtPRo⁠Can I ask you a BIG favour? 💙Please leave a review or rating. It helps us grow the podcast and bring you more amazing guests.Share with someone who needs this; it might help them live a happier, healthier life.Follow us on social media or join the broadcast channel to send us your questions for our guests. I'll leave the link here: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==⁠ ⁠https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==⁠🛑 Disclaimers:Opinions are my own. This content is for educational / entertainment purposes and not medical or financial advice.

If you can't sit with yourself, how can you expect anyone else to? This is where depression comes in. Could not sit in silence. Paula Williams is an award-winning therapist with over 25 years' experience, helping women unpat patterns that they did not even realise they were living in. Be really careful about how you speak to yourself. We would never talk to anyone the way that we talk to ourselves sometimes. We begin to say no, we become empowered.

What is the worst that can happen? So they don't like you, you're never going to see them again. Who cares? I really felt that I would have to constantly overtalk. When does the high achiever stop? When do we realise that actually I need downtime? What would it look like if you actually learn how to say no? In this episode, we break down why self-help books aren't working for you

and the uncomfortable truth behind being a woman who is a high achiever or a people pleaser. But before we get into the conversation, if you could do me a huge, huge favour that will only take you a couple of minutes, subscribe to the podcast or leave a five-star review on Spotify. It really helps us keep bringing you guests that help you to live a happier, healthier life. Thank you. Hi, I'm Paula, and you're listening to Her Discussions podcast. Paula, the Hood community have sent in so many incredible questions. about being a high achiever woman, your nervous system regulation, being a people pleaser and falling

into the same relationship patterns even after reading all the self-help books. But before we answer those extremely important questions, I would love to hear what was it that led you to this work in the first place from your personal experience? From my personal experience. Okay, so if I really go back and think about myself, I was always that child that was really inquisitive. My mum would have to drag me along because I'd just sit and want to people watch all the time. So I've always had a want of knowing what the world is doing and what people, you know, really trying to figure out what's going on in someone's head. But personally, if I think about it, I started working in the NHS as the secretary and then moved through to work in sexual health.

One day, applied for a job. Genitio, you're in medicine. I didn't even know what it meant. And basically, applied for the job, got the job, and worked out that was sexual health. And in those days, from diagnosis to death with HIV, was only five years. Gosh. And so a lot has changed now. So it was incredible to see how the,

the mother and baby unit came out of that, because in those days, it was really just homosexual men that were being, you know, targeted by this disease. But what was really interesting was that they would have an aromatherapist who would come in and help with pain management. And you'd have the side effects of all these drug regimes. And at the bottom, there'd be death. It'd be like, you know, wow. So I'd often sit with the counsellors and the health advisors and just watch the, I'd always think that there was like two kinds of people that would come in. One, when they were told their diagnosis, would cash in their life policies and go and live on forever. And then there were those that would die quite quickly.

So it made me think about mindset, but also coming back to the aromatherapist, they would come in and help with pain management. And I was just knocked out by how non-invasive touch was really important for the way how someone, felt. So time went on. I left that job and went away to the West Indies. That's where my family's from and was out there for about a year. And when I came back, I couldn't work because I found it so difficult to work into the everyday humdrum way of nine to five. It just didn't suit me anymore. Being able to see someone that could go to the shop and buy one egg and a cup of oil was it just changed my perspective on everything and what I was grateful for. And I thought, what do I want to do?

So I retrained and became an aromatherapist, reflexologist, and thought, I want to use this in a therapeutic way. So I went and did a pitch to the alcohol services and said, look, let me teach your clients how to relax without drink. Let's put some nutritional advice in there because I was really interested in psychonitrition as well as what nutrition. did for the body. So did that, got the contract for where I was, the area that I was working in. And what I found that was so amazing was that when people don't speak, it comes through the body. And also, I learned so much from working in drugs and alcohol, looking at what it was used for. And when you, you know, you can take it away, but then what's left. and usually there's this pain or trauma underneath that.

So I worked with the women that sell sex. I did lots and lots of things. And what I was finding that was happening was that people would just talk to me and I felt I didn't have the kind of capabilities of being able to take that further. So I went in retrade. Now that is the professional way that I'd say that.

And when I say that is that was a, journey but there was also a personal journey that was underneath that. At that time when I went to retrain, I became a single parent. My mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I lost the building that were in. It got condemned. So everything was breaking down around me. But also it gave me the real want to continue on.

So in my own lived experience, I was able to draw from. that. I don't think I would have ever gone into therapy if I didn't become a psychotherapist. And that was the last thing because we all had to go into therapy but I was one of the last ones. It was like I was putting it off, putting it off.

But eventually I did and then ended up doing like six years of therapy to really look at what my patterns are, what I put into hierarchy, that sort of thing. So I really got to know because to sit in this chair is a real privilege. As therapists, we can sit in a place of the expert.

But really what I try to do is is sit alongside my clients and really try to see behind their eyes, see what it is that's causing them distress and try to understand from that perspective. But really, that was my journey. That was long. Yeah, no, it's so, like it's so interesting

because I think that coming to a point of being a therapist It's quite, for a lot of people, I think they would think, God, why would you want to sit and hear about people's struggles all day, every day? So that must be so, so, so challenging and difficult. But to other people, it's a really attractive profession. Yeah, I think I've always been a rescuer. And most of us that sit in this position start off as a rescue,

trying to rescue ourselves through others. Like the wounded healer. Yeah, the wounded healer. Absolutely. And as I say, it's just fascinating. me. And I had, I was that person that would sit on the bus and that person would tell me their whole life story or the tube or, you know, and as well, I think I'm quite nosy as well. But I really do enjoy my job, but I've got ill through it as well because it is a lot, like you

say, listening to people's trauma day in, day out. And I do or have done high-end trauma, child sexual abuse and domestic violence and all of that. And when you are listening to that, you really have to make sure that you have some kind of protection. We call that vicarious trauma. You might not go through it, but when you hear it, you can feel that pain and being able to make sure that you are protecting yourself. So, you know, I have had times where I've burnt out

because, again, I'm one of those women that will keep going. and going and going. So through my own experience, I've learned how to eat well. I'm a real advocateer of nutrition, definitely. Because if you were to come into my therapy room, I would ask you, how many cups of coffee you're drinking? Or how do you relax?

Because I still use my aromatherapy oils. I will teach people how to relax. Because a lot of us don't know. Yeah. We're constantly living by, you know, artificial light or deadlines and how do we continue on and on and on. And we see it as a weakness if we don't leave when we say 9 to 5 and you leave at 5 o'clock, it's looked upon, hang on a minute, you're going out the door at 5 o'clock,

why are you not giving us more hours or I should be doing that? So I've learned as well. I often say that I'm the method actor for therapists. You've lived it. You've lived it. I've lived it. I have lived, yeah. I've lived lots of things.

But at the same time, I'm very aware that my experience might not be your experience. So I have to really understand that I'm not driving the session. It has to be at your pace. I think a lot of the audience are high achiever girlies. So we will come on to the psychology behind the high achiever, the strong, independent woman, as well as those patterns that they might fall into in relationships. But first, I wanted to hear what your definition of trauma is. My definition of trauma.

Okay. Well, trauma often has no words. So it's something that is learned by the body, the nervous system. Because often when we think about trauma, it can start really early on. And that's preverbal. So we don't know what the word is. And I think a lot of people couldn't recognize that if something happens in their relationship, for example, they're arguing and their partner storm.

off. All right. Okay, that might be seen as rejection and, you know, the overwhelming feeling of that. So trauma is how the body reacts. It's a feeding. It's a sensation. And sometimes there are no words to that. And I always say that trauma, you know, we often think of it as something big. But pain, pain, if it's painful to you, then it's your trauma. Before the episode got started and I think I'll insert the clip just after this we were talking it almost felt like you were a mind reader

because she explained this archetype around high achievers, hyper independent women and almost felt like you were telling my life story. So many women out there that are high functioning, really intellectual and yet when you're actually looking at their relationship it's a different story. And why is that?

And often the issue there is that, yes, we've done all the self-help, we've listened to the podcast, we've got the book. Cognitively, we know what's going on. But how do we allow that to land internally? And how do we do something different? All right, okay, so I know this, but I keep faces change, keep doing the same thing. So what's happening here is that the nervous system recognizes something. And when the nervous system and the body recognizes something, that usually tells us that there is something that's happened along in our past, in our childhood.

And that may be that you've learned early on that you are the one that has to be independent, that has to be the caregiver to look after the siblings because the first the caregivers were not there. So this builds this whole thing of independence and resilience. And then because perhaps your caregivers have not been there, you seek out that first love relationship of not being able to communicate because there's no communication. You're loving.

Thinking about what you were saying in, that clip, would you say that maybe some of those experiences where the reason I'm a very determined, hyper-independent person, woman, rather than having issues with addiction is because that my parents unconditionally loved me and supported me. But would you say that maybe those times where I came out of school and, you know, my parents forgot to pick me up? Would you describe those experiences as traumatic? You're no longer young people. You're just people.

And people are either productive or dead weight. It's my first day of work, and I need to make a big impression. Were you just checking me out? No. It's too bad. I see at least 15 ladies I need to talk to you before my beta blocker wears off. My coworkers don't take me seriously. It's not a human.

It's just a piece of meat. Someone bring a gurney. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold? up. That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca.

Wayfair, every style, every home. Can be felt as traumatic, but also survival. You learned really quickly to think on your feet, right? So I would say those are survival techniques. Okay. Yes, it could be trauma, but it might be felt if your partner didn't turn up on time, you might have a reaction to that because, but a reaction that's too big, and that might be steep somewhere there. Yeah. Do you see what I mean? But your strengths are also your weaknesses.

So we've got to find a balance in that. So those strengths that you talk about, you know, the high achievement or all of that started as survival techniques. And then as we grow, it turns into something else. But then if we don't watch that, it can then turn into something else because, when does the high achiever stop? When do we realise that actually, you know, I need downtime? Is it the fact that your pain threshold is so huge that you don't know when burnout's coming?

Do you see what I mean in all of that? Yeah. It's so interesting. But the whole thing around all of this, as I always say to my clients when they're coming, I don't want to over-analyse. What I want us to do is be cue. about the patterns that are showing up and really understand and have compassion for that. Because that part, not have any anger, because often we get angry at ourselves if we're anxious.

Why am I so anxious? Why do I behave like this? But really, let's ask the question, why? And where does it come from? And when we start doing that, then we can bring compassion into the shame that we might feel that is centered around that, you know. because just let me add there there's something that you said about

the reason why you're high achiever I often say about addictions or if I could kind of go in there so we're either chemical or behavioural workaholic or both because it's doing something it's regulating the nervous system

yeah right yeah you know and then when we take it away when we look at what's underneath, you know, I'm definitely the workaholic. Yeah. You know, or the person that used to fill in space.

I could not sit in silence. I really felt that I would have to constantly overtalk, you know. But as I said, my therapy has shown me, you know, shown me has helped me to really learn about who I really am, you know. Yeah, I really, really struggle with my brain being empty because I think what am I running away from and yeah, you're right, that maybe it might not be drugs and alcohol, but doing work is a distraction in itself.

Yeah, definitely. I'm really excited to talk to you about the different relationship patterns as well that people fall into, but first we're going to come on to a section called buy-or-bye-bye because every time you look on the TV or social media, it feels as though there is a new product, a new trend that is being pushed. and I'm sure a lot of the audience feel like they're doing a lot of the mental work in terms of therapy, understanding their own brain, journaling, but actually still feeling stuck in the same patterns.

So this section is aimed to try and cut through those trends and that noise. They're a bit crumpled. Online therapy, would you buy or say bye-bye to this? See, this is where it is. It can work. But if it's the first time you're going into therapy, I would say sit in a room with someone. Why is that? Because I'm a relationalist and I feel that being able to have the energy of someone sitting with you is far different than a screen.

You can still get, you know, a good result for that. But if it's your first time and you've had issues with relationships, then let's really create. create a really positive relationship that is seen and felt with your therapist. Nice. Manifestation practices. Keep them. But know what you're doing. Okay.

What do you mean by know what you're doing? What I mean is that there is a whole process around manifestation. See it, feel, it, smell it, really make it, make it real. And just by really, really making it come alive and not kind of setting your sights on something that you feel is too far in the future or it's just seen so far away. Practice it and start with something small. Nice. Healing Girl era content. Now I'm going to ask you what that means.

Okay. Personally, my perception of it is making wellness and making healing more of it more of a trend that is matched with aesthetically pleasing journals, a morning matcher, positive affirmations, a lot of self-help books. When I look at Healing Girl era content, it almost makes healing visually appealing. Yes, yeah, I understand what you mean there. Okay, there. There are two, that we can use, okay? But what is healing? You know, healing is quieter, it's slower, is something that's really individual to the person. And we don't need things to do that. I think what we really need to do is to stop and really start listening to what's going on

inside us, because you can have all of these things and all of this money that you've spent, but has it made a difference? So finding that person, oh, I'm a therapist, I'm going to say that you. But it doesn't have to be a therapist. It can be your partner or it can be someone that's really trusted that you can start bouncing out ideas off. I often say, find your tribe. It's so important to find your tribe.

And, you know, the people that are like-minded like you that maybe have the same struggles that you can all bounce off each other. So things, some, but no, simple. Nice. Positive affirmations. I love a positive affirmation. Yes, I do.

I'd say keep it because I think it's a great way to start your day. And also, sometimes we don't, we're not positive with ourselves. But again, I'd say it's how you do it. Okay. And the way I say how you do it is being able to really. really mirror, use it in the mirror and look into your eyes. How many people do not, they look at them in the mirror to make sure they don't look like a piece of, can I say shit?

Yeah, you can. Yeah, absolutely. You know, they'll look outside, but they're not actually looking in their eyes to really see themselves. So, yeah, that's how I'd say, look in your eyes. Is there a wrong way to do positive affirmations? If you're just doing it from up here cognitively, I want you to feel it. feel it in your heart. You know, if we think about it, whenever anyone says something positive to

us, we tend to brush it away or we, I often say to my clients, you let it fall on the floor and you step on it. Let's do it a different way. When someone gives you something positive, take it even if it feels uncomfortable and place it in your heart because we're so good at taking the negative and ruminating over it over and over and over again. So with a positive affirmation, just be present and let it flood your whole body. Nice. Nervous system tools like breathwork. 100% most definitely keep that.

Breathwork is so important, you know. And it does regulate the nervous system. I use it a lot for myself and I also use it in my therapy room, breathwork, visualization, calming techniques. Yeah, keep that one. Do you have a favourite breathwork? exercise. No, I'm very spontaneous in the way that I do think. And it really depends on who's with me and meeting that person where they are. But just knowing how to abdominal breathe is, because if we

look at the baby, right, the baby breathes from their tummy always. And what happens through trauma or upset? We breathe from that. So really teaching people to abdominal breathe and then whatever a visualization that I feel that it's going to work with them, you know, I will use. I don't really stick to any kind of, I'm not really prescriptive. I'm a therapist that will really try and work with whoever is in the room with me. That's really interesting because, number one, I really hate square breathing, but I found some really good breathing techniques that I really like, like we had someone do the double H, which I really like that, like a two big, deep breaths

and then a long exhale. Tell me breathing, absolutely. Those really work for me, but I really don't like square breathing. But some people do. Really interestingly, my fiancé literally the other day, I was sat and I didn't realize it myself. And he just says to me, fair, you're breathing really quickly. And suddenly I did notice it. And just having that moment, I don't know, to checking on myself, it was really, really helpful.

But it was interesting how much we don't realize. Oh, absolutely. And there's something that you've just said there about checking in with yourself. often we just roll out of bed and just have a morning routine. You'd never go into a meeting if you was not ready. You would, you know, you'd make sure everything was in order. The actual morning routine I often say is before you get out of bed, just do a quick body scan.

How am I feeling? How am I breathing? Am I carrying any anxiety? Where is it? Do I need to feel anxious today? So what you're doing is being really curious. You know, my morning routine. routine is very much, I will do that, but I'll also meditate for about 10 minutes. And I don't

allow my clients to come into my head yet. So if they do, I send them at my little door. And then I'll jump in the shower. I've got a visualization that I'll do in the shower and then really have a slow routine. And the only time that once I put my key through my office store, that's when I allow everything to come in, but I really protect that space. It was not always like that. That's something that I've really learnt. And I also have a closed down routine, you know, packing things away visually in my mind and, you know, putting all my notes away. And then when I'm in my car, sometimes I don't even put the radio or music because I need silence or I will just play my music on the way home. When I get home, then I upstairs, shower, take the day off and then I can be

another part of myself because I'm at home now. I really could have used with that this advice when I was working 12-hour shifts in the NHS because I really, really, really struggled with that coming home and turning off. Now probably I struggle with it in a different way where work is never off because work is home. So I really struggle with being at home and not feeling this pressure on myself to keep being productive, keep going. What advice would you have for both women who have that physical environmental change between work, but they're struggling to shut down, but also, especially in post-COVID era where so many more women work from home if they're self-employed, but they also can't shut down.

Yeah. Boundaries. And really just taking the time to sit down. And first of all, you've got to notice that you're doing all of it, that you're overworked. And a lot of high achieving women when they come in to see me, it's because they're burnt out and they're not being able to juggle the million and things won. What is they're dropping the balls.

So what I would say is, first of all, we stop. and then we literally create a plan together. Like I said to you, all right, okay, even if you're working from home, when you put your tools, don't go and have water. Water is so important. Water changes the way that you feel. So it washes the day away. So I use water a lot. So it's like go and have a shower, change your clothes.

Go for a walk around the garden at the end because it's so good to be able to just be in green. That's another calming effect. but you know I can say all of this but this is going you should be doing this you should okay what we do is we notice you notice the rhetoric that's going on but what happens is that we often think there's only one part of us that floods the system but we have so many different parts to us but the other part that needs to come into that while the mind is going like that is the other part that's got to say it's okay to stop work What I usually say to a lot of my clients, if you kept using your mobile phone, it would run out of battery.

So you need to recharge. And if that means that you diarise some time in the diary, it could be half an hour, an hour, whatever. Or even just to sit and have that cup of tea. Allow yourself. But it's gentle movements, first of all, you know, and thinking about what your needs are. A lot of women don't even know what their needs are. they will go shopping. And when you look in that trolley,

there's not one thing in there for themselves. It's what everybody else wants to eat. You know, or, and often someone might say to me, a woman might say to me, but Paula, I haven't got the money to do that. And I said, well, if you needed to find that money for your child or your husband, because I'm a real advocate for people having massages,

let's divide that by four once a month. What are you actually paying yourself? So I try to help people. look at things from a different perspective. So the answer to your question is stop, slow down, look at what you would really want to achieve. How would you want your life to be and see if we can kind of put in those little micro-movements in there for you?

And that really nicely brings me on to probably the most important question that I have for you. It's a dilemma that I have faced a lot, probably over the last five years, and I have got a lot better at addressing it. But this fear that if that voice in my head that is telling me to keep going is turned off and I give myself space to relax,

then I won't achieve the goals. And there is that fear, you know? Last night I was travelling and I got home and I was absolutely exhausted. And I says my fiance, I said, right, we are getting a takeaway. We are watching a Netflix series. I'm not thinking about unpacking my bag. I feel exhausted.

I'm giving myself this time to rest, which Faye, five years ago, would absolutely have not given myself permission to do. I ended up falling asleep at 6pm and waking up this morning at 8. Wow. It's just a full, like absolutely whacked out.

I woke up this morning feeling so much more refreshed, but Faye five years ago would have got back and said, Faye, you have a podcast tomorrow. You need to be, go through all the notes. And this morning I went through all the notes and I was, you know, fine. How do you navigate?

that for the women who still want to achieve. Okay, so awareness is the first stage of change. You're in it. You're aware that you've still got this voice that we've got to have compassion for because that part of you, it was created a long time ago. So that, and probably way, way back in childhood, if we can think about that. And it's probably really exhausted and scared that if it does drop the balls, oh my god you won't be able to achieve

but has that ever really happened Twizzlers keep the fun going yeah I know I just stopped whatever you were listening to to tell you that Twizzlers keep the fun going well irony isn't my forte but twisty chewy yummy Twisler sure is so think of Twislers

as a little pallet cleanser for whatever's queued up which by the way should be coming very soon like any second now okay Twizzlers time to keep The fun going. Do you know what? It has, but when I've been burnt out.

Right, okay. Right. So it's got the memory of you when you were burnt burnt out. But that was then and not now. All right, because that was really key in what you says. It has, but it was when I was burnt out. All right. So I want you to recognise the voice, that part of you.

When I think back, it's been periods where I've been burnt out where my motivation has been completely. on the floor where I just had this constant need to relax and I did not have any motivation to achieve anything. I had to reset my A levels to get my grades for medical school and when I look back, that is what I think of where I had just really, yeah, I was just burning the candle at all the ends and then it just almost like flatlined.

Right, okay. Wonderful that you recognise where it comes from because that's what I would do with you. Where does it come from? I'll take you back to where it has. And what's happening is that that memory is still there every time because feelings only know feelings, they don't know situations. And what I mean by that is that whenever you get the feeling of,

oh, I'm going to drop the balls, it will take you back to that memory, draw it forward and it will just, you know, the fight begins. You did something different, which is, I'm going to watch Netflix and have a takeaway. But it was an almighty fight, but you did it. So now as time goes on, I just want you to know that there is that part of you, but there are other parts. And the part that the real self-energy, the real reflective part of you came into play that, you know, yesterday and challenge that part. Often we don't challenge the part. So when we are present in hearing our thoughts, we then can have the strength to challenge.

That's really helpful. I think women especially are very good or bad at this depending on how you look at. Women are very good at analysing their thoughts, their behaviours, reflecting, but still often end up in the same situations. So we spoke a little bit about how, you know, a woman might understand why she makes these decisions. She's almost therapists herself. Yeah. But she still ends up in the same patterns, for example, like in relationships.

Yeah. Why does this happen? Face is changed, but we keep doing the same things. Why does it happen? Because it feels familiar to the body. All right. Cognitively, we know. But there was no language or the availability

when this started in the nervous system. And so it was like the other day, what was I watching? Love is blind. Yeah. And on that, there was one contestant who had, had two guys, I can't remember her name, that were vying for one who had his heart on his sleeve, really, really open and poetic and all of that stuff. And the other one was quite cold, but she said something that was key.

She said, the one that was cold, she said, that's my type of guy that I usually go for. And I had my cushion up and say, please don't do it. Because I knew that her nervous system was going to go for that guy because the other one, she wasn't used to, right? So, so said, so done. And she went and chose him. And of course, it didn't end right. And that is a key example of knowing, actually, it just felt familiar to her body. Familiar doesn't mean it's right for you. And so this is where I would say, slow down a bit because the red flags, they're there already. Your body tells you, your body tells you before your head does. And we're animals at the end of the

day, aren't we? You know, we can go into a situation and we just don't feel comfortable, but we brush it away. You know, I had a client in the other day and she'd been through her real traumatic experience in a relationship. And we were going back and I said, let's go back to the first time that you actually met this guy. And she was telling me about that, yes, I met him at my house and in the first kiss my body just jolted back and she said well I really put it down

to all my you know I wasn't ready for the relationship I said that's really interesting that your body did not even want to go forward for that kiss and then it was a really controlling coercive relationship and it ended great but it was so interesting when we were actually tapping back to see where why, what the body was doing.

Because I'm so interested in how the body reacts. Really, really is so interesting. And would you say that we can always trust our body? Or would you say there are situations where if you were speaking out on a big, big, big stage, your body would probably feel uncomfortable. But it still might be the best. Yeah, yeah, right. Okay.

There is a real difference with sitting in the, the uncomfortable to push you forward. But if a reaction is really too big for the situation, I always say about anxiety, there's kind of two types of anxiety. One, we absolutely have to have. It's what we call the motivator. It's got legs on it. I don't want to go to that interviewer.

I don't want to do this podcast, but I'm going to sit in the uncomfortable. And then it dissipates. It usually goes away. But if it's too big for the situation and it's full of fear, it's debilitating, then we know that it's something that's steeped from the past. But the only way that we can start learning this

is through, because I use a lot of unbelieve in education, psychoeducation is key. I don't gatekeep anything, you know. I think it's really important for us to know. And so the first stage is really, you know, understanding your patterns and then you will know whether to trust or not. Because at the beginning,

you don't trust anything. at the beginning. That's why you may have come into therapy or you're reading yourself help books. So once you start learning about yourself, then you can begin to trust, trust yourself and your body and not give a damn about what people say. But there's a process to all of that. But knowing, I really want everyone out there to know that anxiety is normal, but the right type of anxiety. Is it the one that's going to dissipate someone? when I jump into the situation. Yeah.

I'm going to come on to some community questions. Okay. What are the most common protective roles you see women stuck in? I've got to be strong. Okay. I've got to people please. Because if everybody is okay,

then I can relax. Often it doesn't happen like that. I've got to be Miss Ultra Organiser. Everything's got to be in such a structure. But what happens when that's, structure breaks down. So what I would do with someone is teach them to let the structure bend. So it's just like the tree when we can move with it.

Because if you've got a structure or that's too rigid when it bends, you unravel. So I'd say definitely to be everything for everybody. You know, if we think about how society is, women carry a lot or exercise. expected to carry a lot, you know, to actually be great at your job, bring up the children, look after the home, wow, how, you know, and also be the nurse. You know, there's, and I could add to that list. There's so much out there that is expected of us. But really, what I would say to anyone that is juggling all of them, again, is my thing,

Let's stop for a moment. What is the worst that could happen if we did drop one of those balls? What would that look like? What would it look like if you actually learn how to say no? So we just, because my next question was going to be, how do we get out of these protectors? But would that be where you'd start? So imagining what will actually happen if and facing up to that.

Yeah. So I suppose people please in part. would be a common situation, I think a lot of women will resonate with. These people that you're pleasing, are they paying your bills? I just start throwing things out. And who are you pleasing? Yeah. And what are you gaining from this?

And what does, you know, it's all about questioning and with curiosity. That's what I always say. And getting someone to think about what is it that you're actually doing and how much time is it taking? What I always say, there's the circle of trust. Who's in your circle of trust? Of course you're going to want to please. And then it gets wider.

What does your circle of trust mean? Circle of trust is who's got your back? Yeah. Who's in there for love? Who is balanced in a relationship? Who gives and you give? Your circle of trust, who can you rely on? Okay, of those are the people that you probably want to please.

But maybe not all of time. And then if we then keep going out in the circles, where do you place those other people? And when we can have a visual view of that, we can think, well, why am I pleasing that person? What am I getting back from that? And I think really women are taught to be really selfless. And often I say, this should start with the first relationship. Okay. And that's how I use my therapy.

the first relationship is with self. Now, if we don't get that right, because our relationships outside of that or with the environment are not great, because if you don't treat yourself well, that resonates out and you can get that back. So looking at being questioning with curiosity, why teaching how to say no,

have I got the energy? Do I have the capacity and the energy to be able to do what this person has asked me to do? Often someone may ask you, oh, can you do X, Y, Z? And you say, yes, you don't even think. I teach people to slow down and say, hold on a minute, can I get back to you? Let me check my diary. Yes, I can do it, but not on that day. Or, no, I can't do it.

I'm really sorry. And when we begin to say no, we become empowered. It's not what we expect that the whole world's going to hate me. You know, so it's trying to break a pattern that was there for a long time. And knowing now that you are not that little girl anymore that needs to make sure that everyone's okay because your house was so chaotic or, you know, if everyone's all right, then I can relax, that you are a grown-up, but these parts of us are still really present.

You know, Little Fay's going to come along, little Paula's going to come along, and be the mini-parent. But actually, she doesn't need to do that anymore. She needs to go off and play. So she can still be there. We want all our parts there. We don't want to be hating them, but we want to recognise what they need and feed their needs.

Why do you think women especially struggle with being people-pleases? It's almost expected of them, isn't it? Yeah, really. It's like, you know, that is something that I should be doing. But is it, really? Please yourself before you please others. Yeah. You know, and there is something about, oh, this whole thing of being subservient

or, you know, I've got to be a certain way. but no be true to yourself but how do we get to the point of being true to ourselves how do we get return to self yeah tell me more about return to self what does that mean you were never lost first of all let me say that you're always there but what's happened over time experiences environments that you've been in you've unconsciously learned how to survive through patterns So what I would say is that we look at those patterns and we just start moving them away and we uncover who you really are, the strength of you, the power within you, when you actually do not give a damn what people say.

Because you know that you can trust yourself. But yes, okay, you'll get in your circle of trust. You can have someone that you can bounce the ideas off because we all need that, you know. but being able to come back to self because there was all this other stuff that was placed on top. So being your real authentic you, the part of you that stands in S energy, self-energy, that can observe, that can own when they have done something wrong

that actually can say, I don't like that. Can I stand alone whilst amongst others without collapsing into compliance. I can still have my own ideas just because you think that doesn't mean I have to agree with you and it doesn't matter if I'm going to stand on my own with that opinion because I am sure of that opinion. I would say I've got a lot better at being more apologetically myself.

Okay. However, two weeks ago, I was on a brand trip in Marrakesh and it was really, really lovely and I was with one of my very close friends called M. Now, M has a social media page that is basically dedicated to de-influencing. So she doesn't agree with a lot of influencer practices, and she makes it very, very, very well-known, okay? And we were on a trip with a bunch of influences.

Okay. Because she is a content creator herself, but she doesn't agree with a lot of things that happen in that industry. And she was unappointed. apologetically speaking her opinions amongst this group of, you know, people, but she was doing it in a polite way. And it made me feel so deeply uncomfortable. Because even though Em was saying a lot of things that I agree with,

in my head I was thinking, um, shut, shut up, please shut up. Stop rocking the boat. You're probably, you know, you're saying a lot of things that other people will disagree with. And it made me reflected. on how I think I've come so far in being unapologetically myself or expressing what my personal views are, but actually there is still that part of me

that is trying to bend to what other people accept. Look, that's okay. You've noticed that part with compassion because that part had a role that, again, is probably quite old. And, you know, when you notice that and you can see how uncomfortable, because the system you're not used to rocking the boat. I don't want to rock the boat. What does it mean if I rock the boat?

The panic that's there. But what you do is there's another part of you, the self-energy that can come in and say it's okay. Because it was okay. What was the worst that could happen? Yeah. And that's one thing that I love to use. What is the worst that can happen?

Yeah. So they don't like you. You're never going to see them again. Who cares? This is an extremely enlightening conversation for me. And I'm really sorry for the community, because I've gone a little bit off tangent. I know there are community questions

I am going to come on to, but for me, I am actually, I'm very willing to rock the boat if someone has come for me. If someone who's come for me, I will absolutely disagree with that person. I will not back down. So I am very good at rocking the boat

if someone's already started rocking it. Before that, I still would like to be liked. Yeah. I notice that in myself. Can be very argumentative, but only if someone who's done something that comes for me first. Yeah, which, yeah, that's really... So it's almost to say that part of you wants to protect the people that you love.

Okay. Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me in there. But, you know, how do you feel about that part? I really like the part of me when I get quite argumentative and get quite strong-willed and strong opinion, you know, express my opinions. It's sometimes afterwards, Maybe there's occasionally afterwards I feel like a hangover of... So then there's another part that comes in and said,

did you do right there? Yeah, yeah. Did I overreact? Yeah, did I overreact? I think that's it. Sometimes if someone says something to me, I immediately get quite argumentative and then maybe a day later, two days later,

feel a little bit anxious that I've overreacted. Well, what I'd say to you is instead of using the word argumentative, Just reframe that word because it is about your passion. Yeah. It's about what you feel is right or resonates for you. The word arguments puts a different language is really important. So if you take away the word argument, it might land a little bit different. I was a very talkative child, very yap, yep, yep.

And someone said something to me recently where they said that I was a lot. and it really, really, really, like, triggered me. And it made me think about, you know, probably past Faye who'd been told to be quiet, who'd been told to not talk as talkative. So, yeah, this is me doing some live, real-time reflection. But I feel as though that reframing of I have a narrative in my head that I'm too much, I'm too talkative, I'm too loud, I'm too opinionated, I'm too argumentative. and maybe that is what.

Yeah. Let me just add to that. Most of us, all right, have been brought up to do as you're told, believe what people say and be respectful, right? Is that not true? Okay. So when the child hears something, this is what works so with bullying or abuses. Okay, so when the child hears something or, you know,

they tend to believe it because that's their world. Okay. So if we think about the bully, let's just. say, okay, you go to school, constantly being bullied, those words are being placed inside you, okay? They go away. And then what happens? You become the bully or you become the perpetrator because you are systematically hearing that.

So that person that triggered you, like you said, it's almost like, just because they say something, it doesn't mean it's true. Yeah. And I really want people to see that because, and also the first. fact of be really careful about how you speak to yourself. I think, you know, we would never talk to anyone the way that we talk to ourselves sometimes. You know, the derogatory name calling, the getting angry, they're having no patience.

But yet with everybody else, you're so kind, you know, no. So I want people to question that just because someone says something, it doesn't mean it's true. Yeah. We'll move on to our section called Real or Real. I'm going to show you a video and I'd love to hear your opinions on that. To preface here on the Heard Discussions podcast, we are a big, big, big, big, big fan of nuance. This is a place where I do not want guests to feel like they have to make a click worthy moment. I just want the honest truth for our audience. The Let Them Theory is based on a The fastest way to take control of your life is to stop controlling everyone around you. You have no idea how much time and energy and attention you are wasting, trying to control other people. You have no idea how much energy you are burning through, thinking about, worrying about, obsessing about what other people are doing, what they're not doing.

what they're feeling, all of which you have zero control over. It's really not about other people. See, energetically, you're hooking yourself into other people because you have an opinion about what they should or shouldn't be doing. And that opinion is usually driven by your insecurity, or it's driven by your controlling nature, or it's driven by your anxiety, or it's driven by whatever it is that you may have. But once you get your energetic hook into somebody else, you've now just lost control. And when you say, let them, you're acknowledging the situation and you're almost saying I'm above it and I'm permitting this because I see it happening. And then something really interesting happens because you're no longer all worked up about what

they're doing. You are forced to look back at yourself. Let them. So the let them theory, this has been a big, big, big trend on social media. What are your thoughts? One size doesn't fit everybody. Who am I to say that this is because of that and this is, I don't know, I want us to be curious together as to why you may be behaving that way. So with that, I think it's really, we can get into hot water when we try to fit into something because someone said it. Yeah, well, you said something earlier.

that I think really, really applies to the let them theory. You spoke about the circle of trust. And I have an incredible phenomenal relationship with one of my best friends from North Wales, where like from growing up, where we have been through many, many, many seasons of our life together. And both of us at some point have told the other person that they are being a dig.

And we have told her when she's been behaving out of line and she's told me when I've been behaving out of line. And my concern with the let them, theory. When she was going through a tough time and she was being an awful friend, I would have cut that relationship off and I, because I would have let her do that. But instead, because I valued the relationship and I valued her as a person, I told her, you're not behaving as a good friend right now and gave her the feedback, the honest feedback that showed her, I cared about her. And she's done the same for me. Absolutely. Because you know the essence of your friend.

Yeah. And no one can tell you any different. You know, she's having an experience. And for what a bit of behaviour has come out of that. But you know the essence of your friend. So that's perfect. And I'm glad that you've got that. Yeah. And what I worry about the let them theory is it ignores that.

It completely does. It's one dimensional. That's what I want to say in that respect, you know. I really like the way that you visualised that for me in terms of the people you're called inner circle. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And then once we start placing people, then it just brings, you just can breathe with it all, really, you know, because that's your tribe. You know who your tribe is.

Yeah. Okay. I'll come on to some more community questions before we finish up with the final question that we've been asking all our guests. So we've had a couple questions about your idea of safety before strategy. What does that mean? Safety before strategy. Well, I would say that means how do I feel inside my body? Am I balanced?

Am I feeling energized? Does this feel right? So it's like really being curious and asking those questions before you then put the plan in place. And then in your little circle, you're sort of trust. You can then pull in, you know, others to help you through that. But it starts with the first relationship with self. Nice.

the biggest mistakes people make when they are trying to fix themselves? So they think they're broken. That's the first thing. Or they approach that as some kind of project. You know, and what does fix mean? What are you fixing into? What other people expect?

You know, let's first of all look at what it is that's causing you upset, distress or balance. And look at, I always go back to what those themes or those patterns. but get out of thinking that you need fixing. You know, instead of thinking about what's wrong with me, let's ask what happened to me. I really like your approach to being inquisitive

because I think recently got engaged, but before I got engaged, because I knew it was kind of, I kind of had a suspicion. It was coming up. And it made me feel awful, like really, really, really awful in that it was something that I couldn't control when it happened,

how it happened or what happened. That's the structure. You want to be structured. I just freaked out because I knew, I had a suspicion when it was going to happen. It was the weekend before it happened. And I just completely freaked out. Like I get really bad change anxiety.

When I feel a change is approaching, I don't know what happens to me. I just, I'm not, I'm not myself. I'm not myself. And because he was away, I ended up doing a little bit of journaling. And I did some inner child journaling and thought about what experience.

experiences. So like what you were saying, this inquisitive nature. And I went back and I found some inner child journal prompts online. And I just, it was asking me, you know, kind of trying to pinpoint what situation had happened. And I made so much progress by revisiting some really like experiences that I have not thought about for years and years and years. It was nurturing that. inquisitive nature. So I really, really love that that's something that you've spoke about. What you've just said there is like what we talk about in therapy is sometimes when the therapy, I'm going to let you down. And, you know, my clients will say, what do you mean? Well, there's going to be a time where I can't make an appointment or I go on a holiday and there's going to be space. And this is what happened with you. Okay. So he wasn't around. So what you did was you dug deep and you found a way. through it and that's amazing. So in that, you were able to find, to be curious, to start journaling.

Because if he was there, it might have been different. Yeah. So it shows you that anything is possible. The worst, what is the worst that can happen? You can actually work through it. That brings me on to the next question, actually. Because I think when I was thinking about a lot of these situations that I think have led me to this maybe control more controlling approach to life. I literally shed tears. It was

and I don't normally, like I find it quite hard to cry at certain, you know, situations. I shed real tears. Why does healing sometimes feel worse before it gets better? All right. Okay. So often if we come from a place of where we don't do emotion, you know, you just fall on the floor, get back up, you dust yourself off and you keep going. All right, so we store them up. Okay, this is where depression comes in, doesn't it? Sitting on top of emotions. Okay, so what happens then it can either implode, we become sick or we explode at the wrong person.

So the thought of healing, okay, the thought of actually when you do go into therapy and you start on this process, you may feel those unprocessed emotions and that can feel quite scary especially if you've had the narrative if you don't cry. You're not allowed to cry. But often, if you think about it, another way of looking at it is that

when we hold onto something, it's concentrated. It's really concentrated. The moment you start talking, we dilute it. And when we dilute it, it takes the power, out of it, but the thought of diluting something or what have you, but it's only a thought is, oh my God, I'm going to feel worse. Yes, you might because the tears, the upset, but one thing we have to remember is that emotions and feelings do not stay. They go. They come and go. When we're in it, the thought of it, oh my God, I'm going to cry a river, but do we actually

cry a river? Because it will stop. And it's knowing that. when you jump into that knowing that this will come, the ebb and flow of emotions, we come and go. Yeah. So yes, you're feeling, you're feeling what happened, not to the extent, because you'll never feel it how it was at the first, but you will feel it, but it will pass. Yeah, it will pass.

Yeah, it will pass. This is a good question that gives people a practical starting point. So if someone feels stuck in a pattern right now, if they're listening. Where should they actually start? And do you have three small things someone could do this week? Okay, where should they start

if they're stuck in a pattern? Okay, first of all, right, stop. Often I say, write. If you like to write, make your journal, your silent counsellor. That is your counsellor. Write it out of you. If you're going to do that,

you end on three things that you're grateful for because sometimes the outpouring can seem quite really overwhelming. So we end on three things that you're grateful for. And that could be the fact that you've opened your eyes today, you know, or you made it out of bed. And we don't have to look for anything really, really big. Go and get a massage. You've said, oh, so we need to establish your love of massages.

It's because I'm an aromatherapist. Okay. And also the fact, if you're not someone that's talking constantly in your head, The non-invasive touch is so healing and being able to have aromatherapy ors that have been crafted just for you for tension, you know, clarity or, you know, just to look, we spend so much money on our cars to service them or what have you. But we don't do enough for our bodies. Yes, we punish them at the gym. But how do we, how do we soothe them? The reason why I'm a real advocate for that as well is it soothes the nerves.

system. You look at the baby, all right, when we put the baby to bed, what do we do? We turn down the lights. We put the, we bath them, we turn down the lights, we read them a story, we feed them, we rock them, we change the whole atmosphere for them. Just, and also, I was brought up with baby massage anyway. That was one, the tradition through, through my household. So I've also know what it does to the child. And also just holding a baby and patting them. Oh yeah. Yeah. That just pops them to sleep, you know. Even stroking a cat or your dog.

What the, you know, we need that. That's why I advocate that. So what was I general? I will have. Talk to a friend. Yeah. That you trust. Yeah.

You know that you really trust them. Yeah. Talk to a friend. And if you can't talk to a friend, there are therapist help lines somewhat. If you feel that it's so, so big, that's why I say the writing, no one needs to see it. You can cry in it, you can draw in it, you can stick in it. And that is your silent counsellor. Before we come on to the last question, you mentioned that you're very passionate about nutrition as well, psychonutrition.

What are the commonest mistakes you see when people might not be eating for their brain? Okay, the high-functioning woman drinking loads of. coffee. Right. Not having, I've got no time to have a lunch break. I'm not, you know, or just grabbing, because they're on their own. They'll cook a lovely meal for everybody else with all the ingredients, but for them, they'll just shove something down there.

So again, this comes back, returns right back to the first relationship. So that's why anyone that comes in, I will always ask. them about how do you eat, how do you approach food? You know, often if someone has got an eating disorder or anything, I'll say, how are you nourishing your body? Yeah. You would never send your children out without food in their bellies while you're doing it to yourself. I'm a big, I haven't got time for lunch person. And last week we had a nutritionist on the podcast who she was talking about low energy availability in women. I'll put the episode on screen now if anyone wants to click on it, but it really made me reframe because I had this idea,

if I just have a big dinner at night, it's fine, I'm getting the calories that I need to keep me functioning, whatever. And she explained to me where that was just completely stupid and idiotic. And I have been making a better, a better effort to make sure I'm eating my snacks regularly or my meals regularly. Wonderful. Because one of the other things, if you're not eating properly, your blood sugar level goes down, when that goes down, your mood goes down. If you're you need not eating properly that can buy into anxiety yeah i mean i know when i worked in um the drug and alcohol services and you know teaching people how to eat again because they had no idea how to eat so often they would replace um their drink with 10 15 cups of coffee with free sugars in and no

food so you'll get in the the sugar high you know and and really looking at why have you got a sugar craving because alcohol sugar yeah so I will look at how do you relax what you're eating and then also looking at the patterns of relating. So I would say my way of relaxing is Netflix in front of the loop.

I've got a big projector. It's watching Netflix. I've got better because previously we watched Netflix but still do productive things on my phone at the same time. Now phone goes, you know, I'm not, phone is out of reach and I sit, probably have a bar

of Tony's chocolate as well. Would you say that is a healthy waist relax or not a healthy race or relax? Before you said that. I was going to say I'm going to throw a spanner in the words there. Right. Let's go back to what you said earlier. Okay. I was watching Netflix and I was breathing from up here.

Yeah. TV, Netflix, all of that lot creates emotion in us, what we're watching. So you're going to get a reaction. Okay. And that might resonate somewhere within you and set something off. So don't get me wrong. I do that. You know, sometimes you just don't want to think,

but it is not the best way. I want you to think about what else you can put in your whole world to actually relax and learning maybe to be able to be in space. If you can't sit with yourself, how can you expect anyone else to? I feel personally attacked. No, no, no. Because it's true. It is true because I often find after a busy day, I think to myself,

I can't wait to get home and just stick Netflix on and not have to think. And it almost feels like the highlight of my day. What I would say to you is this is, have you got bath at home? Some people just have a shower. No, I don't have bathed. Oh, that's a shame. Yeah. Because what I would have said to you was.

I hate Bath snow. And this is the same. I know you would. Because you would just chat. Okay. I sit there and I just think, oh, I need to get out. I need to get out. What I would say, often I hear that so much.

Often I'd say lavender all, if you like the smell of lavender oil that can pull you down. You put a face mask on because the conscious mind thinks, for me to be gorgeous, I've got to sit here for 20 minutes. And you play music so that the mind is being taken away somewhere. Or if not, then what I'd say is in your shower. Do you like the smell of lavender? I love lavender. Just pop some lavender all on the base of the tray. So when the water hits it, it comes back up again.

and that will just help help calm you or burn it, burn it in your room. Yeah. You know, and let that or even just smell it. It's one of the only oils that we can actually put directly on our skin. It's the safe. It's great for burns. It's great for headaches. It's got so many wonderful properties.

So, you know, if you do love the smell of it. But I'd want you to think about something else to add in to where you're actually really targeting the nervous system. Yeah. Do you like myself? Yeah. No, I do, I do. But I even think, like, I often, when I'm really busy, I tell myself I don't even have time to, like, moisturise properly.

So I will just literally scoop the moisturiser on, like, or the spray body, the spray body, just spray, spray, spray, spray, you know, get out the shower. Like, that's, I don't take the time to moisturise my skin. That's very good. You are worth it. And this is that, again, as I've been banging on about the first relationship with yourself, You know, you're absolutely, where are you running to? You'll still get there.

That's so true. Even if it's five minutes later, you'll still get there. So I need to instead of... If it feels like you're running in your body, I just want you to notice that and just slow it down a little bit, yeah. And I think that, yeah, maybe shifting my what I'm looking forward to, instead of it being night in front of the TV, long shower, moisturised.

Oh, absolutely. Put my face mask on. Do you have your little feet done and what have you? You know, your lovely face mask on your feet as well or whatever. Self care time. Yeah, definitely. Because this is all about returning back to self. You know, people say to me, oh, you know, that's selfish.

The ones that say to me, that's selfish, they haven't got a selfish bone in their body. Those that say that would never, you know. Yeah. It's self-love. It's your self-care and it's so important because you want this body to take you to the next chapter. There's so much more to do, isn't there? Yeah. Paula, that has been absolutely pleasure. We've got a final question. We've been asking all the guests and that is what do you wish every woman knew by the time she was 25? To make the mistake that her friend. And what I mean by that is,

you know, we are, you know, learning that the mistake is crucial, the failure is crucial. Because when we might have that mistake or we fail, we pick something up in the learning. You know, if you are learning something, you don't come in as the master. You come in as the student. Stop pressurising yourself that way. I love that. That's really, really, really helpful. So thank you.

Oh, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.